Illinois House Floor Debate — January 5, 2022

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Republican request an immediate caucus."

"Hour. Thank you."

"Mr. Speaker, let the record reflect that Representative Keith Wheeler and Steve Reick are excused for the day."

"Thank you, Speaker Hoffman. And that big screen up there makes you look very nice now with the new big screen. It's 10200064.docx 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 very bright. A few questions of the Sponsor on the Resolution, please?"

"I know. That's a big screen up there, man."

"Thank you. Leader Harris, appreciate you bringing this forward. And just… I know we've talked about this a few times, but you had mentioned COVID related reasons for being able to vote remotely. We don’t have… there's nothing in here that gives standards for why people can participate in remote voting is there?"

"I would just… I would just hope, as we… as we move forward with this, 'cause I'm… I assume this is going to be something we're going to continually do in the future, that we take a hard look at having some standards around this. The last time we did… the last time we were in Session… the last day we were in Session, at the end of Veto Session, we had three people who clocked in remotely at the beginning of Session. And we ended the evening with 12 people voting remotely. Several of which who were obviously in their vehicles or at their hotel rooms. I don’t believe that's the purpose of this. It's for specific extenuating circumstances. And I would hope, as we move forward, that we can have some discussions about maybe how that we could change that to make sure that we put some standards around this. So, I'm going to be a 'no' vote on this. But I appreciate your work on this, Leader Harris." 10200064.docx 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"Yep. Representative C.D. Davidsmeyer is present." 10200064.docx 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"Yes, Representative Grant is present."

"Present."

"I'm present. Yes."

"I'm here. Thank you." 10200064.docx 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"Thank you, Leader Hoffman. I appreciate that. And it's my great honor today to introduce to the chamber our newest Member of the role of Members of the House of Representatives. To my right here is Sandy Hamilton, the new Representative for the 99th District. And Sandy is a tremendous person in our community here in Springfield. She's lived in Springfield for over two decades. She is a tremendous realtor here in the capital region, and what she's really known for is Coach Hamilton. She's a long time volleyball coach. Just stepped down as the volleyball coach for Sacred Heart-Griffin after about a decade. But more than that, she's a champion volleyball player from the University of Illinois. On two Final Four volleyball teams when she was in school at the University of Illinois. So, please join me in welcoming Representative-Coach Sandy Hamilton to the Illinois General Assembly."

"Thank you. Thank you, Tim, for the nice introduction. I'll just say briefly, again, Sandy Hamilton. Originally from Downers Grove. So, I'm from the suburbs. Went to University of Illinois. My husband is originally from Springfield. So, we ended up to root our family here. And been here, like Tim 10200064.docx 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 said, over 20 some years. And I'm excited to be here. Married with three boys. So excited. Thank you."

"A point of personal privilege, please."

"If I could just have order please in the… I know everybody's quiet but just… in the early hours of December 4, Lieutenant Garrett Ramos of the Sterling Fire Department died in the line of duty when a floor collapsed beneath him while battling a house fire in the neighboring Rock Falls, Illinois. Garrett was born October 27, 1983 in Sterling Illinois to Edward and Jeannie Ramos. He grew up spending his time with his family, playing team sports, especially exceling at basketball and thriving in any team environment. Faith, family, and sports laid the foundation for the man of character he would become. Garrett attended St. Mary's Grade School and graduated from Sterling High School in 2002. He attended the South Carolina Fire Academy, following his graduation from Illinois State University. He then followed his father's footsteps, beginning his firefighting career in North Charleston Fire Department in Charleston, South Carolina, a destination he loved visiting as a child and 10200064.docx 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 vacationing there. In 2012, Garrett returned to his hometown, Sterling, where he would serve his community at the Sterling Fire Department and would later build his life centered around what mattered to him most, his family. Garrett married the love of his life, Brittney Berger, on July 23, 2016, traveling together before the birth of their two daughters Ruthie and Kepa. He was a devoted and loving husband and father. And those who knew him praised him for his positive attitude and infectious demeanor. Garrett was a perennial community volunteer, in addition to his nearly 10 year service at the Sterling Fire Department, where he served as Union President for Local 2301 before serving as Acting Captain for the year prior to his death. The City of Sterling promoted him after his untimely death to the rank of Captain. During the service, Chief Dettman noted that he was to replace him down the line. Garrett will be missed by his family, his wife, Brittney; daughters Ruthie and Kepa; parents Ed and Jeannie Ramos; Sister Jennifer (Aaron) Brannon; Nieces: Joslyn and Isla; his nephew Drake; his mother in law Sue (Liz) Roberts and father in law Rick (Linda) Berger; several aunts, uncles, cousins, and countless others who loved him dearly. There was an extreme outpouring of love for all that knew Garrett. There was thousands that attended his visitation and his funeral. Garrett will be missed by his brothers and sisters on the department, his friends, his family, and a very grateful community and state. We extend our sincerest condolences. Speaker, when the Resolution is filed, I would ask that all Members be added to it. And I ask for a moment of silence to recognize Captain Garrett Ramos, last call." 10200064.docx 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"Thank you. Last week, the Bradley Police Department lost a highly valued member of their force. Sergeant Marlene Rittmanic was shot and killed while responding to a call. She has served as a police officer for 21 years and was promoted to sergeant in 2014. In 2020, she was recognized as the Law Enforcement Officer of the Year for her outstanding service. Sergeant Rittmanic was known for being able to meet her community members where they were at and work with them to create long-lasting, effective solutions. Outside her job as a police officer, she was a published poet, an amateur photographer, a film producer, and an avid dog rescuer. She is survived by her wife, her father, her five sisters, a brother, and many nieces and nephews. I am proud to have had such a dedicated law enforcement officer and an incredible person serve the 79th District. My prayers are with her family, friends, colleagues, and loved ones. May Sergeant Rittmanic rest peacefully. I would ask for the honor for Sergeant Rittmanic with a moment of silence."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Thank you. Thank you, Representative Slaughter. Seem to remember we were in a similar position in a different building last year, last January when this underlying Bill passed. And several Members of our caucus who were allowed to speak at that time raised concerns about that underlying Bill. So, I want to clarify some things that maybe are or are not in this trailer Bill. Is there anything in this trailer Bill that deals with the elimination of the cash bail system or reforming the cash bail system?"

"And if you recall, last January, there were several serious violence… there were serious… several serious violent offenses that were… are not listed as possible detainable offenses pretrial. We discussed that. Is there any change to the list of detainable offenses pretrial in this Bill?"

"Is it your intention to address that at some point in a trailer Bill going forward?"

"So, you… is there intention to do that or just you're open to hearing suggestions?"

"Do you anticipate there will be a Bill run to address those offenses that are not included?"

"Well, that will be good because, to this point, in the discussions that have occurred prior to this Bill being drafted, the Republican caucus has not been included in those discussions. So, it would be important for us to be included. With regard to the three phone calls…"

"With regard to the three phone call rule that… one of the changes is to move from custody triggering the three hours to place of detention. Is that correct?"

"And the three phone calls starts each time detention… place of detention is changed. Is that accurate to say? Meaning if a person moves from a city police department to a county jail, at each place of detention they have a separate three hour, three phone call right."

"Are you allowed three additional phone calls or is that only three phone calls once you're taken to any place of detention?"

"So, if you were moved from a city…"

"Thank you. So, if an individual is moved from a city lockup to the county jail, they're only allowed three phone calls during that time?"

"I believe by the…"

"So, that is going to be an additional burden on law enforcement, especially in rural areas where individuals are transferred from places that do not have a county jail, they have a regional jail. Those three phone calls will have to be monitored by law enforcement will require additional burdens on law enforcement."

"There is also a requirement that law enforcement… and this is under the phone call provision again, subparagraph (g), 'In accordance with this Section, the following records shall be maintained: (i) the number of phone calls the person made while in custody; (ii) the time or times the person made phone calls; and (iii) if the person did not make any calls, a statement of the reason or reasons why no calls were made.'"

"There does not appear to be a prohibition… or a restriction, I should say, that that's only limited to that three-hour window. It appears that if someone is in jail for 5 days, 10 days, 6 months prior to trial, that law enforcement has to keep track of all the phone calls that individual makes during that period of time. Is that the intention of this Bill?"

"So, it's only limit… the record keeping is only limited to that three-hour window. Is that your intention?"

"With regard to the pretrial services portion of the Bill, I understand that this is going to be a new individual employed by the state that will be assigned to different counties and circuits. Is that… that do not presently have pretrial services."

"Are you aware that there are some counties that have individuals who operate as pretrial services officers, but there is not… because of the size of the county, there's not a separate pretrial services division?"

"So, that…"

"I guess what I'm saying, the map that's been provided by the AOIC shows some of those counties which have people 10200064.docx 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 working as… in pretrial services as not having those services."

"My concern with this provision is we are going to be taking the local court system, which is operated by people who are elected by the local voters or accountable to the local voters, and introducing someone from the state who is not accountable locally and is only accountable to someone in Springfield. Is there any purpose or intention that that individual hired would be accountable, meaning could be hired, fired, disciplined, by the local circuit judge as is currently occurs with probation officers?"

"To the Bill."

"Last January, we raised many serious concerns about the… what's been called the SAFE-T Act that became law. Those concerns have not been addressed by this Bill. And there is concern on my part and many others that there will not be adequate efforts to address those concerns in future Bills. What is done here is just something to cover over things that 10200064.docx 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 I believe are larger mistakes with insufficient corrections. So, for that reason, I would urge those to vote 'no'."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, what is the current state of the law regarding phone calls by people who have been detained under the Illinois statute? What is the current law? And how many phone calls is someone allowed under current law is someone allowed under current law to make if they're detained by the police?"

"No, no, no. Right now."

"So, this is… what you have in here is already currently law? I'm looking at the Amendment that says that each person shall have three phone calls to a family member or an attorney. You're saying that’s currently the law?"

"All right. Let me ask you a few things about this. You said that a person who is detained gets three phone calls while they're in custody, correct?"

"Do you know that when it says here, I'm going to read the language, 'persons who are in police custody'. When we talk about somebody's in custody, a court has historically 10200064.docx 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 stated that it means that that is when someone is not free to leave. Would you agree with that? That is what our courts have said. When a person is in custody they are not free to leave. You understand that?"

"So, when a person is picked up and placed inside a squad car, and they're handcuffed, are they free to leave?"

"So, at that point, while they are in a squad car, will they have to be given three phone calls at that point?"

"Where does it say… where does it say it's not going to…"

"Yes."

"Why not? He's in custody. He's not free to leave. That's what your Bill says. Persons who are in police custody. That person's in custody while he's in a squad car."

"No, it doesn’t. It says right here…"

"No, no, no. Representative Slaughter, it says, persons who are in police custody shall have the right to communicate free of charge. Police custody means that they are not free to leave. That means that they are sitting in a squad car. And under the way you've drafted your Bill, that means that the police have to give that person three phone calls." 10200064.docx 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"No, this thing is totally contradictory."

"I am going to the Bill."

"You're not even reading it right. Look, I've practiced law I understand this. You don’t practice law. I'm telling you you're going to run…"

"…into constitutional problems, okay? Answer the question. Is a police officer who's in the… if that person's detained in the squad car, he's not free to leave, right there it says that they have to give three phone calls to that individual. That's the way it reads."

"You know what? I'm reading something different. And you know what? Some defense attorney's going to read something different too. It says when police… persons who are in police custody shall have the right, custody. You have a conflict in this section between detention and custody. So, let's… let's move on. You're also saying that after that person has been at first place of detention, they will be brought down to the lock up, and they will be… let's say they're going to be brought from the, whether a squad or from the district, down 10200064.docx 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 to the county jail. At the county jail they will be given another opportunity to get three phone calls, correct?"

"I'm saying is that, after a person has been apprehended, someone who has been suspect or someone's been detained, they are… what happens is they bring them down to… usually it's brought to a local district. Okay?"

"Okay. So, I say that you get three calls in a squad car. When they get to that district that is a place of detention, that will also require three phone calls… another three phone calls, correct?"

"Places of detention are… is a… let's say is the 10th District or the 11th District in Chicago. Is that a place of detention?"

"When a person… okay. And when… okay. Then that's three phone calls right there. Then, if the charges are approved, they're moved from that place of detention to the county jail for a bond hearing. That is another place of detention. So, I'm looking at right now nine phone calls that we are giving someone under this Bill. Would you agree that 26th and California, the Cook County Jail, is also a place of detention?"

"So, I'm looking at it right now. You got six. I'm looking… I'm actually… I argue it's nine. But there's already six phone 10200064.docx 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 calls that are automatically going to be given to someone under those scenarios, whether picked up… they're picked up, they're brought down to the district station. The district station will write a report and say that we have probable cause. And it will go down to the county jail, and they'll have to sit for a bond hearing. So, we have… what?"

"Is it what?"

"No. No. So, we're looking at a minimum six phone calls you're going to give somebody who can make a… under any scenario within the State of Illinois, particularly in the City of Chicago, that you're going to give because a place of detention is a local… is the local district. And the local district is going… which is a place of detention. And then, the local district are going to transfer them to jail. That's another place of detention. So, you got six phone calls right off the bat. So, where, at the Cook County Jail, are these guys… where are these signs going to be placed which says they must be a sign that says that you have a right to talk to your attorney or public defender? I mean, you're telling the sheriff… this is a mandate on the sheriff. So, tell me how that's going to work out."

"Yeah. Yeah. Where are these sheriffs going to have to do when these guys are brought in? Where is the…"

"All right. Look, I… look, I haven’t been arrested. I'm pretty fortunate. But the fact is, people are going to be in this situation. Sheriffs are going to try to figure out where the heck they got to put these notices. So, I'm going to move on. Okay. So, let's get over to the other section that says that the person who is detained has a right to make a phone call to his attorney of his or her choice and members of his or her family, correct?"

"Okay. How is the law enforcement officer going to make… be able to determine that a phone call is being made to one of these individual's family members?"

"Why don’t you answer the question? Answer the question. How does the police officer going to know whether not their making a call to a family member? Since they're not allowed, under your Bill, to ease drop, nor to… it must not be monitored, ease dropped, or recorded. How are these guys going to know who the heck they're talking to?"

"No, you're not. No, no, no. You've created another mess, like you did with 3653. You've created another mess. So, here, 10200064.docx 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 here's another one. So, it says that… what is… how far does a family member go by definition in your Bill?"

"How far is… should the definition of family member be extended under this Bill?"

"All right. Here's… well, okay. Here's what you're doing. Now you would agree that this is a very… we live in a very violent society. And particularly when it comes to domestic abuse, correct?"

"We have spouses who will violently attack their wife or their child. Under this Bill, when that family member has been charged or placed… or in a place of detention, and the abuser is a family member, you're allowing, under this Bill, that abuser to call that victim at the jail house, which they often do, in which they say, you know what? Don’t charge me. Don’t proceed with this. Or other type of intimidation. Do you know that?"

"Yeah, but you're allowing this phone call to be made. You're saying that you can have… you're saying they can call up a family member. It doesn’t make it… without any restrictions. And when that family member, whether they're a sexual assault victim, from a family, from an uncle, or from a father, is going to be allowed to call back to that other family to beg to the family or that child and say do not press charges against me. You've opened up… opened up a very bad 10200064.docx 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 situation when it comes to issues of domestic violence and also sexual assault against family members."

"Is what?"

"It doesn’t make a difference. You're still allowing that phone call to be made. Sure they can get charged down the line, but the fact is, the call's going to be made. And they're going to scare the hell out of that victim who's been the subject of abuse by that family member. Have you ever heard about the… a few years ago we passed a Constitutional Amendment in 2014 called Marsy's Law. Sound familiar? It is for victims' rights. Passed overwhelming in the State of Illinois. It's now part of our Constitution. What it does is, it… that it guarantees that victims should be free from harassment from their offenders. And it guarantees the right of reasonable protection from the accused. How does this section, in which a family member who's the abuser is going to call up back to the house and talk to the victim, how does that comply with the Constitution of Illinois? How are they free from protection from the accused?"

"It does. It allows for it. It says a family member. It doesn’t preclude that. It doesn’t say that you can talk to any family member, as long as they are not the victim of a crime that person is being detained for. That's not in your Bill. Like 3653, this is poorly drafted. This Bill was a mess 10200064.docx 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 back in January. That’s why we we're going through this process of having to clean up or they call trailer Bills. They clean up the mess that was created under that Bill because it was never properly vetted. We saw it with the three hours left in the Legislative Session at the end of last January. And the way I read this right now… because I do practice law. And words mean something when we put it into legislation. And, Representative Slaughter, what you have done with this Bill is that you've created a terrible situation and likely situation that’s going to occur in those specific cases of domestic violence or sexual abuse that is been gone… that in which a family member has afflicted upon a minor. I would strongly recommend a 'no' vote. People, understand what we're getting into and what we're opening up. And, Representative Slaughter, you know that I… I worked with you on that Bill last year, and I'm speaking to you from the person who's practiced law, who has worked inside the Cook County court system for a number of years. I understand this. And the fact is, you've created a bad scenario that'll likely happen if you pass this Bill. Vote 'no'."

"Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"I just have one question, Representative. Does this Bill address all of the concerns of law enforcement?" 10200064.docx 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"Does this Bill… does it… yes… all of the concerns of law enforcement."

"Okay. And does this Bill do anything to address the concerns with zero cash bail?"

"Okay, Representative. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"All right. Representative Slaughter, on page 50 of Senate Amendment 1, subpart (h), lines 22 to 24, you have not limited the power of the board to suspend a certificate or to revoke a certificate, correct?"

"Subsection (h), lines 22 to 24."

"Right. The board… this board, in its revocation… certification process and revocation process you've created, a board can suspend, or restrict, or even revoke a certification for a police officer, right?"

"All right. And if the officer loses their certification, if it's revoked, they no longer have a job in Illinois, right?"

"Right. And you have… and with this Amendment, you're now making it mandatory that every single entity… government agency in Illinois that wants to have law enforcement officers, it's no longer voluntary, they are mandated to participate in this certification scheme, correct?"

"Well, let's talk about due practice for our officers. Because aren’t all of these officers covered by the Supreme Court's Loudermill standard?"

"The Loudermill standard. U.S. Supreme Court's Loudermill standard. Do you not know what that is? Maybe you should."

"Do you consider these officers to have a property or liberty interest in their public employment?"

"Well, answer my question. Are officers still allowed, under your legislation, to have a property or liberty interest in their public employment?"

"Really? Well, I disagree. And this is why part of this is problematic because you can't take away, by statute, rights that are enshrined in the U.S. Constitution under Supreme Court precedent. When you're… let's go to the revocation of certification provision. Do you consider that a Loudermill pre-termination proceeding or is it part of a pathway to a post-termination proceeding?"

"Take a look…"

"If you'd like, take a look at page 64 of the legislation. You're talking about authority to decertify through a preliminary hearing. Is that a Loudermill pre- termination hearing or not?"

"Take a look at page 64, line 11, preliminary… line 10, (e), preliminary reviews. Line 11 starts, one, where it talks about the board shall complete a preliminary review. Does that qualify… do you believe that qualifies as a Loudermill pre-termination review or not?"

"Yeah. Well, that gets back to my original point. Which is, under Loudermill, how can that provision possibly be lawful? When the U.S. Supreme Court has said you have a property and liberty interest based on the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, how do you say that can ever survive constitutional muster?"

"No, no, no. Let's be very clear, they haven't agreed upon this. When you… when you file a Bill and you pass a Bill that basically says, dear law enforcement, we're going to break your arms and break your legs. And then, you come back with a trailer Bill that says, don’t worry we're just going to punch you in the face. That's not exactly a way to say law enforcement has agreement. That's a way for law enforcement to say, yeah, we'd rather have a punch in the face than broken limbs."

"But that doesn’t mean it's good legislation that they have agreed to, and they do not support this overall scheme you've created. So, let's get rid of that polite fiction."

"Did you have the nine Members of the U.S. Supreme Court there? Because that's my point, is that this is not compliant with the Loudermill standard. Loudermill standards…"

"No, I've still got more questions."

"I'm happy to move to other sections under… let's talk about this 'process'…"

"…this process that you've created. Now, during the prior committee hearing in connection with this Amendment, I raised a whole host of issues relating to due process procedural problems with this protocol that you put out. And even the Governor's… the people from Governor's Office recognized that there were some problems. So, since we raised those issues, you still haven't tried to make any Amendments that we raised as concerns during the committee hearing in connection with this legislation, true?"

"You haven’t offered to collaborate on anything. We've… we've raised issues…"

"You haven’t… you haven’t taken a single recommendation that we made to try to improve this process into account. So, for example, under subsection (k), when a person is called before the board or the panel to give evidence for decertification, the officer and his counsel does not have a right to cross examine those witnesses, do they?"

"All right. And under subsection… and as we take a look at page 60, decertification conduct, the board has the authority to decertify a full-time or part-time law enforcement officer before…"

"…before any hearing takes place, right?"

"How are you going to be able to square that with due process requirements that require at least certain threshold minimum pre-hearing termination standards?"

"It's not… your current law is not…"

"…compliant with federal standards for due process protections. Let's take a look at line 63… page 63. You've still got that the identity of a complaining individual is 10200064.docx 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 going to be kept confidential and may not be disclosed without the consent of that individual, right?"

"So, how isn't…"

"Right."

"Right, but the officer does not have a right to confront their accuser, to cross examine them, or to otherwise get information from them, correct?"

"Right. No… but even in civil proceedings you have the right to… to get information from people who are accusing you. And again, you are taking away someone's livelihood through this process. So, again, you're… I don’t think you've really thought this through. If you…"

"Well improving a noncompliant process does not make it compliant."

"Take a look at page 68."

"I still have further questions, Chairman. I'm sure someone on my side of the aisle would be happy to waive time."

"All right. Take a look at page 67, subpart (f), where the investigation process has…"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Question for the Chair. Mr. Speaker, will it be the intention of the Majority Party to cut off debate on all Bills related to criminal justice reform? Is that the new approach, the new day that we will 10200064.docx 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 see implemented any time we're talking about serious issues for public safety and police officers?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I would recommend, if there is to be a limit on the number of times the members can yield time to each other, let's establish those perimeters at the beginning of the debate. Because I believe Members will structure their lines of question, the points they'd like to make accordingly. But let's not have it be the practice of this Body that debate is arbitrarily limited once we tire with a certain number questions of a speaker. I appreciate your offer to allow Representative Mazzochi to bring her remarks to a close."

"Thank you. If this Body didn’t constantly cut off debate on criminal justice Bills, maybe you wouldn’t have bad legislation that gets passed that needs an endless round of Bills to get fixed. The Sponsor of the Bill says we need this new Bill to make a prior bad Bill more workable. We're still taking bad legislation and keeping it unworkable for all of our local law enforcement infrastructures. When the Majority Party passes a Bill that they realize is unworkable… first, 10200064.docx 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 shame on the Governor for signing it without an Amendment in the first place, but second, the better course of action is to repeal the Bill and actually to do a good Bill to start with. HB3512 has been colloquially referred to as the SAFE-T Act. What a lie. This Bill is not making more people safe. This is a bad Bill. It was a bad Bill when it was first passed. It's a bad Bill today. And the Democrats are, once again, privileging criminals over people who want to abide by the law. And by the way, shame on the women from DuPage who supported this Bill the first time and who are supporting this version of the Bill because you have seen, in DuPage County, the rise in criminal activity that’s been resulting from so-called criminal justice and restorative justice reforms that this chamber has passed. You've seen the increases in carjackings. You've seen the increases in felonies. You've seen the damage that this legislation is doing to what should be a safe DuPage County. And you keep voting for it. You are women who are supposed to be keeping our families and our streets safe, and you're undermining it with every single vote on these types of Bills that you take. And why? Nobody in this chamber is going to dispute that Chicago is full of dysfunction. But to take Chicago style dysfunction and potential Chicago proposed influences and say that somehow this is going to be great for the rest of the state, it's not. It's not going to work. This is going to continue to make our streets less safe and you should vote 'no'."

"No."

"No." 10200064.docx 51  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"No."

"No."

"No."

"Mr. Speaker, please let the record reflect that Representative Morrison and Sommer are excused for the rest of the day."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t know if Representative Spain wanted to say a few words on this side. Representative Stuart, can you kind of run through… I know this a… you said this is a cleanup. Can you kind of run through what the changes are?"

"I'm always a little skeptical about election Bills from the Majority. But nothing else in there that would surprise us?"

"Okay. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill."

"Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is an elections cleanup Bill. It’s a not the first, and it may not be the last that we've seen in this chamber, even though we're just days away from the beginning of circulation for candidates to begin the process of passing petitions throughout the State of Illinois. This is a Bill that makes a couple of small changes. The issue though is that they're making changes in correction of mistakes that have been made in the past. And I would just say, very sincerely, as someone who volunteered with great enthusiasm to serve on the House Redistricting Committee, to serve as the Republican spokesperson on the Ethics and Elections Committee, what a difficult and disappointing year this past year has been. And from the conduct of the Majority for redistricting, to the changes that have been made on elections, the mistakes that are now being corrected in this Bill, the problem is the lack of collaboration and the lack of transparency with the Majority Party in this chamber. And it's disappointing. And it didn’t have to be this way. And, quite frankly, it shouldn’t have been this way. So, here we are again, as we enter the election year, a very pivotal election year, an important election 10200064.docx 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 year for all of us and for the State of Illinois. Here we are cleaning up more mistakes that have been made that maybe didn’t have to made if we could've worked together genuinely in a bipartisan way, in a collaborative way as colleagues. In a way that understood the communities of interests I value throughout the entire State of Illinois, that serving our constituents have value, and that empowering people that participate in the political process is important and can be resolved by working together. We have come a long, long way from what should be very simple goals that both sides of the aisle could agree on. And as a result, I do not feel inclined to be in support of fixing these mistakes that were made by the Majority. I urge a 'no' vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"You've indicated that you want to continue to… continue with this process of voting by mail and you want to clean some things up. But you are aware that in the last election there were vote by mail requests that were made by people who the clerk's office determined were actually deceased, right?"

"Well, but the sheer fact that deceased people are still existing on the ballot roll, such that they can actually be… maybe they were caught this time for a few of them but not necessarily for all of them. Doesn’t that concern you at all, that people are still on the voter rolls?" 10200064.docx 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"Right. No, but you still haven’t made any effort to try to obligate the clerks to ensure that there are no dead people on the rolls, right? So, you've done all of these election modification Bills and you still won't actually make the Amendment that our county clerks must ensure that dead people are off the rolls, as opposed to what we currently have in Illinois law which is that they may be taken of the rolls."

"And that's a shame, isn’t it? Thank you. Vote 'no'."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, to the actual petition form that will be used by many shortly here that are running for offices or reelection. Can you explain what this potential change here would actually do to what many are looking at as an existing petition form by the State Board of Elections right now?"

"So, it's actually a affidavit change in a wording verse an actual petition circulator language at the bottom of a petition. Is that correct?"

"So, the affidavit that's at the bottom of a petition that is Xeroxed or utilized by others…"

"…that technically right now then would need to have a change in it? In other words, a new petition."

"Okay. So… and I think everybody in this chamber might be very interested in this. So, you are saying, for the record, that the present petition that has been not distributed but… but is something that is on the Web site of the State Board of Elections is correct and factual and not have to be changed by this legislation. Is that correct? The circulatory… the circular… the circulator part at the bottom?"

"Sure. The circular… circulator part of the petition at the bottom, the present form that the State Board of Elections has, does that have to be changed under this new change to the legislation?"

"Okay. Thank you very much."

"No, thank you."

"That is a 'no' vote. Thank you."

"No."

"No."

"No."

"That'd be no, without a dog."

"Mr. Speaker, let the record reflect that Representatives Sosnowski, Keicher, and Halbrook are excused for the rest of the day." 10200064.docx 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"Mr. Speaker, let the record reflect the Representatives Luft, Niemerg, and David Friess are excused for the rest of the day." 10200064.docx 60  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"Thank you, Speaker Hoffman. And should this measure receive the requisite number of votes, I would request a verification. A few questions of the Sponsor."

"A few questions of the Sponsor please, Mr. Speaker."

"Leader Hernandez, so this is not what we thought we were going to be doing at the beginning of the day. The Bill that we had discussed in committee this morning, or this afternoon, was a Senate Bill over here in the House. This is a House Bill that's come to us from the Senate. So, can you tell me this, is this the same Amendments that we had… I think Amendment 3 was the last Amendment I saw in the House. Is that correct? Is this the same as the House Amendment 3 that would've been posted?" Hernandez, L.: "This is the same Amendment… it's really the same thing that I… we discussed in committee. Nothing changed."

"Nothing changed or is there… my friend here, Mr. Persico, says there might be a change in Lake County." Hernandez, L.: "Okay, other than there's just a small change of how judges are allocated in the Lake County subcircuit… district."

"Okay. Can you… just a couple questions off the start. So, there's a couple dates here. Are these effective for the 2022 election or they effective for the 2024 election?" 10200064.docx 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 Hernandez, L.: "In some cases, existing statute is established that these would begin in 2022. But in most of the cases, we put these into effect in 2024 to allow clerks time to prepare."

"Okay. And so, which… which are effective in 2022? That would be easier than listing, I guess, which are effective in 2024." Hernandez, L.: "Right. Lake and Madison."

"So, only Lake and Madison. So, Cook and all the other circuits are not, except for Lake and Madison, are in 2024. Why, if those are effective in 2024, are we doing this today? Why don't we wait until we have better information that we can discuss this with the judiciary more or with… with people involved with the judiciary? Why don't we let the next General Assembly, the 103rd General Assembly, deal with this?" Hernandez, L.: "Well, Representative, passing it… if we pass it now, it gives courts, the clerks time to properly implement this. And it also gives potential candidates the time they need to make informed decisions."

"Okay, then why don't we do all in 2024? Why do we have some in 2022?" Hernandez, L.: "Because there are some that have vacancy and are statutorily required."

"But wouldn't there be vacancies in some of the other circuits? And what's the statutorily requirement for that?" Hernandez, L.: "So, this would be considered like the blueprint. You've got some that have to be done in 2022, and the rest in 2024." 10200064.docx 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"Why? What… what tells us that we have to do these in 2022?" Hernandez, L.: "There's stat… there's a statutory requirement for that to occur."

"And what is that statutory requirement?"

"Her first official duty as a Representative. That's all right." Hernandez, L.: "So, there was a Bill back in 2021 that would require for us to implement the…"

"That was… wasn't that a Bill that said that we were going to redistrict the subcircuits during the census year? So, we had to change it from 2020 to 2021 for all the counties that had subcircuits. All the circuits that had subcircuits. Not Madison, for one, 'cause Madison currently doesn't have subcircuits." Hernandez, L.: "My understanding is Lake County, it's required in 2022."

"So, why would we do it for Madison? There's nothing in statute today about Madison." Hernandez, L.: "'Cause Madison…"

"So, it's not a statutorily require… statutory requirement." Hernandez, L.: "There's vacancies."

"And it was 2022 for all of them, correct? That was… was that the Bill that we passed?" Hernandez, L.: "So, let me make it clear, 2022, Lake County…"

"Mr. Speaker, I'm having a hard time hearing. I don’t know if it's the microphone or…" 10200064.docx 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"I know."

"But Madison doesn't have subcircuits right now. So… all right. So, I know there's some other people that are going to talk. I don’t want to go this at length because we talked a lot about this in committee today. But I want to talk specifically about the Seventh Circuit in which we sit today. So, my Circuit that I live in, which currently isn't subcircuited. It's one of three circuits now that are currently now subcircuited that will be subcircuited. How many… how many subcircuits are in the Seventh Subcircuit… or excuse me, in the Seventh Circuit?" Hernandez, L.: "Seven subcircuits in the Seventh."

"Seven is a lucky number. I'm the seventh child in my family. So, I like seven. Why do… why do we have seven subcircuits in a circuit that has a county where one of them only has 5,000 people in one of the subcircuits?" Hernandez, L.: "Well, I believe you have seven counties."

"Yes." Hernandez, L.: "And then, you have Sangamon County, which is a heavily populated county, that it was… we moved forward to have two subcircuits. Obviously, there's a purpose behind that to bring diversity based on population shifts. That was… that was reasoning why we moved in that direction."

"So, the… so, the initial maps that were released two night ago had three subcircuits in the Seventh. And the maps 10200064.docx 64  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 that were released… I don't know. I can't keep track anymore. Released earlier today, last night, whenever it was, have seven… have seven subcircuits. Why did Sangamon… or excuse, the Seventh go from seven to… or excuse me, three to seven?" Hernandez, L.: "So, we… so, my understanding is that already the Constitution does require that each county have a judge. So, this is simply just basically going along those lines. That each county is… has a… well, they have a judge already. So, it's… it's continuing to have a judge, per county."

"So, the… the Constitution says that each county should have a judge?" Hernandez, L.: "Each county, yes. At least one."

"Let me… let me read to you from the Constitution. Let me read to you from the Constitution. You are correct, according to the Constitution. But what says before that each county should have a judge, in the same sentence, 'unless otherwise provided by law'. That's us. We get to make the laws. 'Unless where otherwise provided by law, there shall be at least one Circuit Judge from each county.' So, if we did not want to have… not every county needs a judge. According to the Constitution, if we decide, as a Body, that that's the case. So, why… you as a Sponsor of this Bill, why did we decide to divide the Seventh Circuit into seven subcircuits? You don't have to do it."

"We don't have to do it, according to the Constitution. That's incorrect. We can do it by law. We can do whatever we want." Hernandez, L.: "Well, we're making it by law." 10200064.docx 65  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"No. You just told me each county is supposed to have a judge by the Constitution. And what I'm saying is, the Constitution says, otherwise provided by law. There's no need to have seven subcircuits in the Seventh Circuit. So, what is the reason why you have seven subcircuits?" Hernandez, L.: "So each county could have a judge. It's laying it out there. We're simply now putting it in law."

"Okay. Can you explain… I think there's going to be, probably, some other questions. Can you explain, kind of, how this is going to work for current judges, for resident judges? How's it going to work for the elections? Are people going to be able to run? Do they run in new subcircuits? I don't… I don't know. Judiciary can be very confusing to a lot of people and…" Hernandez, L.: "I know. I know. It's confusing, but, no, it doesn't change anything other than if there is a vacancy that comes up, then that's when… that's when there's an election or there's a change."

"Okay. To the Bill, Speaker Hoffman."

"You know, this is… this continues the trend that we've seen from redistricting throughout this entire year. Lack of engagement from the public, lack of input from anyone, maps that are drawn behind closed doors. What this is… without engagement from the judiciary, state's attorneys, judges, circuit clerks, no one's been consulted in this. What this is, is a continued power grab by the Majority. You decided to remake the Supreme Court and remake the Appellate Courts. And now, you want to remake the Circuit Courts so you can defend 10200064.docx 66  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 the Governor's agenda in the courts eventually. That's where this is going, to elect more Democratic judges. It's not about diversity. It's about electing Democratic judges. That's what it's all about. There's no doubt about it. And I find it quite amazing that some subcircuits are elected in 2022 and some subcircuits are waiting 'til 2024. And one of the reasons I find that really amazing is the Senate Sponsor of this Bill… the Senate Sponsor of this Bill, the President of the Senate… you know, I was looking on the Internet, and I found that the President of the Senate, right here on the Cook County Democratic Web site, the President of the Senate, Don Harmon, is the chair of the Cook County Democratic Slating Committee for Circuit Courts. Oh, and by the way, from the 13th Ward, we have Michael Madigan. Those are your people that are making the decisions to slate judges in Cook County because… waiting 'til 2024 so they can slate the judges that they want to slate and see all the crazy decisions that come out of Cook County. This is… I've seen a lot of crazy stuff over the last year when it comes to redistricting. This is the craziest that I've seen, the way this process is done on the subcircuits. For months I asked for information on this. For months I asked about this and was stonewalled on it. The… our Members of the committee have asked for a long time. No information. And we get maps that get rolled out 48 hours ago, that get changed 24 hours ago. And now, we're sitting here voting on them tonight. It's an abomination to this institution. It's an abomination to the people of Illinois that this is the way we conduct… and this is the… this is the perfect example why… why politicians shouldn't draw maps. This is the perfect 10200064.docx 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 example why we need we need an independent, citizen-led commission to draw our maps, from the Legislative, to the Congressional, to the Judicial. And even the Cook County Board of Review. We need a citizen-led commission. This is ridiculous. Vote 'no'."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Thank you. Representative, I just want to follow up on something that was previously asked. The technical fix that you said was coming in committee, is that included in this Bill?" Hernandez, L.: "Yes."

"Okay. Thank you. Additionally, you said that the Madison County and others are in 2022 because there are vacancies?" Hernandez, L.: "Correct."

"Could you tell us those vacancies in Madison County?" Hernandez, L.: "I… I can… give me a few minutes, and I can get back to you with that information. It's just…"

"I've only got two at the moment." Hernandez, L.: "I'm sorry?"

"I've only got two more minutes at the moment." Hernandez, L.: "Oh."

"So, I'll go on to my next…" Hernandez, L.: "Okay."

"…question, if you could follow up with that…" Hernandez, L.: "Sure."

"…if your staff could get that to you. You know, you mentioned in committee that the reason that the 2022 ones 10200064.docx 68  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 were picked, versus the 2024 implementation, was for vacancies. But I listened to the Senate hearing, and they said the reason for the discrepancy in the 2022 versus 2024 was that, 'The delegations representing those areas thought that they could implement this in their elections.' Which, I guess, says that the areas that are implemented in 2024 didn't think that they could implement those elections as expeditiously. So, could you tell me who you spoke with in the delegations representing the areas that wanted implementation in 2022? Are these election administrators? Are these Legislators? Who are we talking to?" Hernandez, L.: "All right. So, I did get your answer from the previous. So…"

"Okay." Hernandez, L.: "…let me first answer this one. I haven't talked to any delegation. I'm… did you say that you heard that from… on the Senate side, that they spoke to a delegation? I didn't speak to a delegation."

"The Senate President said that the decision to implement some in 2022, versus in 2024, is, 'The delegations representing those areas were the ones who thought they could more expeditiously implement those changes for the elections.' So, my question is, are some election administrators thinking they can do this and some not? Like, who are we talking to? Who did you talk to to make these decisions?" Hernandez, L.: "Yeah. And well, I… I didn't have those conversations. Apparently, I guess, the President did, but I didn't have those conversations." 10200064.docx 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"Okay. And then, the question in Madison County, what those vacancies are?" Hernandez, L.: "Oh, they are two. Two… give me one second. There are two vacancies being elected at the '22 General."

"Yes, but which ones? Are they currently unfilled?" Hernandez, L.: "Unfilled, yes. They're vacancies."

"There's not a single unfilled judicial position in Madison County." Hernandez, L.: "I'm sorry. I'm going to take that back. They're vacant but they get temporarily filled until their term is ended."

"Yes. So, my question is who those are." Hernandez, L.: "I… are you talking about the names? 'Cause I don't know the names. Is that what you're asking?"

"Names or what subcircuit they'll be…" Hernandez, L.: "Right now, there… there is currently no subcircuits. There's…"

"It seems to be a core… it seems to be a core part of the decision of implementation of this Bill, of why you would do it in 2022 versus 2024. So, I'm just asking who's impacted." Hernandez, L.: "I'm sorry. Ask me one more time 'cause I… I can't hear you very well, too."

"Sure. So, my question… I mean, it seems like your whole premise of why these are being implemented in 2022 versus 2024 is these vacancies. So, I'm just asking who it is." Hernandez, L.: "Right. So, if you're looking for names, I don't know the names. All I know is, it is two vacancies that are open in Madison County." 10200064.docx 70  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"My guess is it's two Republicans. Do you know if that's the case?" Hernandez, L.: "That's your guess. I don't know."

"I'll… I'll take the time. Thank you."

"I'd like to move on. I briefly asked who these were in the delegation you were talking to. You said in committee you did not talk to judges about this map. Is that correct?" Hernandez, L.: "That's correct. Yes, that's correct."

"Can I ask you who you did talk to? Because I was at all of the committee hearings about these subcircuiting changes, and there wasn't a whole lot of input. So, my question is, where did the input come from? Did it come from partisan elected officials? Did it come from consultants? Did it come from lobbyists? Did it come from Legislators? Did it come from potential judicial candidates? Like, who was in the room?" Hernandez, L.: "Okay. So, it… it is the prerogative of the Legislature. And we… we did take the information, the input that we did get from the hearings, to make some of the decisions here."

"Yes, but my question is, who specifically? Because in committee, it was cited that you got input." Hernandez, L.: "I would say for staff and Members."

"Staff and Members of the General Assembly, not members of the judiciary or…" 10200064.docx 71  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 Hernandez, L.: "Correct."

"Okay. To the Bill, Mr. Speaker. This is…"

"…if it weren't so bad, it would be hilarious that this Legislature is looking at what the Sponsor of the Bill in committee said was an independent branch of government. An independent branch of government in this partisan Body is taking partisan measures to totally recreate an independent body of government. We've gotten to this terrible habit, in this Legislature, in the last year, of not doing anything meaningful until the rest of Illinois is asleep. What a shameful thing, to pack the courts in a partisan way in districts that, by the way, may not even be anywhere near where you live. But let me tell you, this redistricts counties near me. And local people got absolutely no say in this. And it's all being done for partisan political reasons, to pack the courts and take over a third branch of government. It is shameful. And to do it at 10:00 at night, it just goes to show that you can't stand on your own work. You have to do it while everyone else is sleeping and jam it through as quick as you can to lessen the blow. Please vote 'no'."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Thank you. I have some questions, as one of the Representatives from Madison County. I've had multiple questions from judges, attorneys throughout the county, and they've asked me to try to get some answers to some of the questions that we have. So, I'll try to be specific to Madison 10200064.docx 72  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 County. Can you tell me, what is the residency requirement for judges to run in the subcircuits, both now…" Hernandez, L.: "I'm sorry, I can't… I can't hear. Say it again."

"Can you tell me what the residency requirement is for the judges to run in the subcircuit, both in 2022 and going forward?" Hernandez, L.: "I think I… what I'm going have to ask of you, Representative, is to be more specific on when you're talking about qualifications because it's just not residency. And as a matter of fact… I need more specifics to what you're asking. Like, what are… is it just residency that… is that the question?"

"Yes. Yes. I think the judges are wondering, if I run for office, what subcircuit am I running in for the 2022 election and going forward? Do they have to move their residence? Mr. Speaker, I'd appreciate additional time." Hernandez, L.: "So, you do…"

"Okay. For how far in advance from the election in next November?" Hernandez, L.: "So, it… so, if it's a vacant seat, that is where they have to reside at the time that they will… they're running. But this does not, and let me make it clear, does not apply to retention."

"So, when you decide to run, do you have to reside in the subcircuit that you're planning on being in?" Hernandez, L.: "Yes." 10200064.docx 73  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"Okay."

"Okay. I think there's still some confusion…"

"Thank you. I think there's still some confusion on that, and I'd appreciate further clarification because we have judges that are potentially going to be running for office in Madison County in 2022. Which, as we discussed, they don't have any lead time till 2024 like the other districts. But they're going to need some more clarification on that. So, let me… let me switch to a different topic. If we could look at the subcircuit map for Madison County, why is the Third Subcircuit in Madison County only getting two judges, even though they actually have a very slightly larger population than the Second Subcircuit? How was it determined that those… that that was the subcircuit that would only get two judges?" Hernandez, L.: "I believe it has to do with the volume of what is taking place in the… in the courts."

"So, did you receive that data on the volume of the caseload in all the different areas? Was that a factor in the decision on this map?" Hernandez, L.: "Well, I think it's… it just makes sense that, in these urban areas, density of population, it's just a given. It is… it is considered."

"Well, the population is very close, but there is definitely more people in the Second… or I'm sorry… in the Third than the Second. So, therefore, the Third has less judges than the Second." Hernandez, L.: "Is there a question, Representative?" 10200064.docx 74  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"Yes. I was asking why there's only two judges allotted to the Third Subcircuit." Hernandez, L.: "I thought I gave… yeah, I thought I gave you my answer."

"Maybe I couldn't hear that."

"Okay. All right. So, I know we've… we've had discussions about the fact that judges are not being added. Have you reached out to the circuit clerk's office, the county, to see if there will be operational changes in the offices throughout the state that… where there's new subcircuits? My concern is that that could be quite costly. And I guess my next question then would be, who pays for those additional cost? Is that going to be borne by the county?" Hernandez, L.: "We're not changing judgeships. We're not… there's not going to be a cost 'cause there is no change."

"So, you don't expect any operational changes within the clerk's offices or the…" Hernandez, L.: "No."

"…judiciary offices…" Hernandez, L.: "No."

"…in any way?" Hernandez, L.: "No."

"Okay. All right. To the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"I represent a significant part of Madison County. Since yesterday, when we first became aware of this map, I've heard from judges and lawyers who are disgusted by this plan and how this was brought forth. Because they're judges, they're limited by what they can say. So, I will speak for them today. Madison County has a terrible distinction of being known as a judicial hellhole because decades of Democrat rule at all levels of county government, including the judiciary. So, isn't it telling now that Republican judges have been elected by the people, suddenly this Majority Party decides it's time to interfere? You had months to do this. You had months to get actual meaningful input from the court system. My county has had less than two hours, really, to digest this latest Bill. And I've still had their input, yet you couldn't ask for input when you knew months ago that you had put this forth. How sad that our judges didn't even have time to respond to their associations. So, I'll speak for them today. Being a responsible lawmaker, there are a lot of questions unanswered. And I would ask you to pull this Bill from the record and take the time for meaningful… meaningful input. And if you won't do that, I urge a 'no' vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative Hernandez, you and your party have the sole and exclusive privilege of drawing your own Legislative Districts. And in doing so, you did that explicitly to your own partisan advantage. Is that fair to say? It's in the Resolution. That's… clearly, that would be a fair thing to 10200064.docx 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 say. And when you drew the legislative and congressional maps for Democrats, you drew these in some instances with certain people in mind to run for these offices, right? When you drew the legislative and congressional maps for Democrats, you drew… you drew these, in some instances, with specific people in mind, or certain people in mind, to run for these offices, right? Certain people that it would make sense for them to run for these offices." Hernandez, L.: "I don't think this is relevant to what we're talking about."

"Well, I think that it… that it clearly is here. But we'll… we'll go on. For the judicial subcircuits that you are creating in this Bill, did the folks that drew these maps have people in mind to run for these new judicial subcircuits? Were there people in mind to run for these when these were drawn?" Hernandez, L.: "No."

"No, there was not?" Hernandez, L.: "No."

"How do you know?" Hernandez, L.: "It's… I don't understand you."

"No, how do you know that there wasn't specific people in mind when you were drawing the maps? I mean, when you drew the congressional maps, you obviously drew them with people in mind that would be… that would be running them, if you look at the maps. When you drew the legislative maps, you drew that with people in mind, with partisan advantages in mind. So, you're telling me the… you're certain that that wasn't… that that wasn't the case?" 10200064.docx 77  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 Hernandez, L.: "The strong basis of why… of how we did the maps was based on population shifts and to diversify."

"Okay. No partisan advantage, no specific people? I mean, you know… you know where the people live. And the people that helped you draft this Bill, they clearly know how to draw a district to give… give people partisan advantages. They've proven that in the past. I mean, you'd agree with that, right?" Hernandez, L.: "No."

"The people that drew these maps clearly knew how to draw them to a partisan advantage. Are you aware of any person who has plans to run in any of these judicial subcircuits that you're creating?" Hernandez, L.: "No."

"Are any of them currently Legislators?" Hernandez, L.: "No."

"I'm sure that your party certainly has some judicial candidates in mind for these… for these subcircuits. Would that… would that be fair to say, that your party has some people in mind that would run for… in the subcircuits that you specifically drew?"

"No? Okay, well that's interesting. I don't think anybody believes that, but… are you aware of any Legislators who have reviewed these subcircuits who have expressed any interest in running for judicial positions?" Hernandez, L.: "No." 10200064.docx 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"Okay. Are you aware of any Legislators that have reviewed the subcircuits because one of their family members might be interested in running for that judicial position?" Hernandez, L.: "I already answered these, Representative."

"No, I don't think you answered that." Hernandez, L.: "Yeah."

"That's the first time I've asked that." Hernandez, L.: "I… I did. I did."

"Okay. Well, I just want to be really, really clear. So, you're… you're telling us, the Members of this Body, that neither you personally, any other Legislator… any other Legislator, or any of the folks that drafted this map took into consideration the political advantages of a Legislator, or a family member of a Legislator, were they to make… make a run as one of these judgeships? That wasn't taken into consideration? You're a hundred percent? You're very clear that that wasn't taken into consideration?" Hernandez, L.: "Anybody can run, Representative."

"Okay." Hernandez, L.: "That's an attorney."

"Any… anybody can run, yes, clearly. But… but are you telling us today that none of these… none of these were drafted with… with any folks in this Legislative Body or any close family members involved to run for?" Hernandez, L.: "Yes. That's… that's what I…"

"What if… what if you… what if you're in a situation where you believe that was happening? What if it did happen?" Hernandez, L.: "That's hypothetical." 10200064.docx 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022

"I mean, would it… okay. Okay. Would… would that be unethical? Would that be an ethical breach if something like that was happening?" Hernandez, L.: "How is this relevant to the Bill?"

"It's very, very relevant. It's… it's extremely relevant, and I think they're questions that need to be answered. What if a… what if a very powerful, influential Legislator voted to create a new judicial… a new judicial district with full knowledge that one of their close family members are interested, and result of this new map, they would be very well positioned to run? Do you think that that would be inappropriate?" Hernandez, L.: "I would just consider that another hypothetical question."

"Well, it's not… it's not necessarily a hypothetical where we're drafting…"

"We clearly have a… we clearly…"

"I'm asking a lot of questions, with all due respect."

"Yeah, well, clearly we have conflict of interest problems in this state. You know, do you think that would be a potential conflict of interest if something like that was 10200064.docx 80  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 happening? Would that be an inappropriate use of public position for… using your public position for personal gain? I mean, I think these questions are relevant in the State of Illinois, the corruption capital of the United States. I think these are things that we need to be thinking about, especially in regards to how the rest of this process has played out behind closed doors and everything else. I'll just go to the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"The… the blatant political power gabs like this lead to corruption almost… almost every time. A situation that we outlined is not only very realistic, it's an example of public corruption and something that we all need to make for certain is not taking place on our watch."

"To the Bill."

"This Bill is nothing more than an unethical partisan scheme to elect more radical Democrat judges who are going to continue to be soft on the crime that is plaguing our state. Vote 'no'."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative Hernandez, do you live in DuPage County?" Hernandez, L.: "No."

"Did any judge from DuPage County reach out to you and say that DuPage County needs subcircuits?" 10200064.docx 81  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 Hernandez, L.: "No."

"Did the DuPage County State's Attorney reach out to you and say that DuPage County needs subcircuits?" Hernandez, L.: "No."

"When… in 2006, there were some suburban counties that were divided up into subcircuits but not DuPage. You're now doing this 15 years later. What's changed?" Hernandez, L.: "I think there's been population shifts."

"Well, there may have been population growth. A lot of it's actually, unfortunately, come from Chicago. But are you aware that the caseloads for the judges is actually decreased over the last five years?" Hernandez, L.: "Yeah, but I think that diversity is a very important piece to this."

"Oh, well, do tell. Tell the residents of DuPage County why you want to split them up into judicial subcircuits because of diversity. What are you thinking is going to lead to greater diversity? And what kind?" Hernandez, L.: "Well, I would say that people in where they live want to elect someone that they feel will represent… represent them. That… that's extremely important."

"Well, who in DuPage County have you talked to who said, you know what, we're the residents of DuPage County and we think we need judicial subcircuits?" Hernandez, L.: "Isn't…"

"You don't live there. No… nobody who's… you can't identify anybody who's lived there who actually wants it. None of the attorneys want it. The bar association doesn't want it." 10200064.docx 82  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 Hernandez, L.: "Isn't DuPage diverse though?"

"What does that have to do with anything?" Hernandez, L.: "I'm just…"

"Apparently… I mean, you just told the judges in Federal Court that we don't have racially polarized voting in DuPage County." Hernandez, L.: "I was just pointing that out."

"Mr. Speaker, can we have some order in the chamber? Can you identify a single person who actually lives in DuPage County, or who works with a court system in DuPage County, who has said, we need subcircuits in DuPage County?" Hernandez, L.: "No one's come to me from DuPage."

"Okay. So, you don't live in DuPage County. Nobody in DuPage County has asked you for this, but you're going to tell DuPage County how they've got to run their judicial system. What standard did you use to draw these boundaries for subcircuits in DuPage County?" Hernandez, L.: "I think it was very important to take a look at the population shifts and to diversify."

"Well, DuPage County was a unified judicial circuit. So, everybody was able to participate. Everybody's going to keep going to the same courthouse. So, what is it exactly… we didn't have any subcircuits before. You're creating all new subcircuits in DuPage County. So, what was your rationale for splitting things up into, number one, seven different districts, and why you drew the boundaries the way that you did?" Hernandez, L.: "Population and diversity."

"Which population?" 10200064.docx 83  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 Hernandez, L.: "Population shifts based on census data."

"But all of DuPage County was a single circuit. So, there's no population shifts. It's all the same in DuPage County. It was one circuit." Hernandez, L.: "I'm just pointing out that those are the two major…"

"Can you answer?" Hernandez, L.: "I'm sorry. What's your question again?"

"Yeah, you keep saying population shifts, but there were no preexisting subcircuits in DuPage. You're creating new subcircuits. So, you're actually discounting our population in DuPage County. There's no shift. There's no boundary that needed to be changed because we were one unified circuit. So, what's the rationale for why you are picking DuPage County and deciding you're going to just divide it into seven?" Hernandez, L.: "Yeah, well… again, it's creating diversity. That has…"

"How? Who? Where? Which circuit?" Hernandez, L.: "That's empowering community."

"What do you mean empowering community? Who's getting…" Hernandez, L.: "When you diversify, you empower communities."

"…empowered who wasn't before? Who's getting empowered who wasn't before?" Hernandez, L.: "Is… is DuPage diversified? Is it diverse? Is it… that's my question to you. Because if it is, if you can answer that…"

"Define diverse." 10200064.docx 84  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 Hernandez, L.: "…then that is a great… that's a purpose why we do that."

"Define diverse. Tell me why you think our current judges can't adequately represent DuPage without being split up into subcircuits. You don't live there. You don’t know the judges there. All right, to the Bill. Once again…"

"…we have a… once again, we have a situation where Democrats in Cook County have decided that they're going to tell people in DuPage County how to live, how to organize their judicial structure. The Sponsor of this Bill has admitted nobody from DuPage County came to her saying that this is something that we need. Nobody from DuPage County's judicial system came to her and said this is something that we need. This is not something that the people in DuPage County want, but the Democrats are going to impose it on DuPage County because somehow they think that our judges who have done a stellar job in DuPage County… it's not because she actually cares about diversity. It's not because there have been populations shifts. It's because they're trying to, once again, gerrymander a district. Because DuPage County, Republicans and Democrats, have historically rejected the types of judging that Democratic judges have offered. We've seen what happens in Cook County. We don't want it in DuPage County, but the Democrats are trying to make it come here anyways. We don't want it. You don't live there. Vote 'no'."

"No. Absolutely no."

"No."

"No."

"No."

"No."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A point of personal privilege."

"I know that we, on both sides of the aisle, we have a few new Members in the chamber this evening. And I would just encourage you to please come back when we're back in Session. This is not normally the way things are done around here. But I would like to… on behalf of our caucus, I would certainly like to wish everyone in this chamber a very Happy New Year. And for those of you that are driving home tonight, please do so safely. And we look forward to seeing all of you in the new year, whenever that might be. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Point of personal privilege."

"Thank you. People who have been saying that Illinois is on the wrong track outnumber those who say Illinois is on the right track by a margin of two-to-one. And today's Session epitomizes why."

"You know, a lot of that snark is exactly why we can't manage to get a lot done in this chamber. And you know what? Government 101 is that police arrest lawbreakers, prosecutors file charges, violent people who are a danger to society can stay in jail pending trial, our judges apply the law and try to do their job to teach people… to keep people safe, and teachers show up to teach their students. The Democrats in 10200064.docx 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 this Legislature and the Governor don't believe in Government 101. The legislative policy for this Majority has been to attack police officers, make it harder to arrest violent criminals. Kim Foxx won't prosecute a whole host of crimes. She won't even authorize filing the motions needed procedurally to lock dangerous people up. And while Judge Evans can go to the media and claim he's following the Constitution, it was his mandate and his decisions back in 2017 to set the lowest possible bail for each defendant and his bail policies that have repeatedly released criminals to commit more crimes again and again. And it was your Majority that gave more power back to the teachers' unions so that they can get paid more and teach less, or not at all if you're in Chicago. My office is in River North in Chicago, and people don't want to go there because they fear for their safety outside the building. And it's not surprising why. Just yesterday, it was reported that a Chicago man awaiting trial for armed robbery in a separate felony gun case managed to carjack a woman at gunpoint while supposedly on supervision with electronic monitoring. Heck of a job there. You call that restorative justice, and in the real world, it's utterly reckless. The Chicago Teachers Union just voted 91 percent to refuse to come back to school to teach kids in person, knowing how harmful it is to kids and their mental health and their educational development, knowing how hard that's going to be and disruptive for parents who count on them. They didn't care. So, here we are in Springfield, and what have been your legislative priorities today? Not locking up criminals. Not helping the hundreds of thousands of parents and kids who 10200064.docx 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 102nd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 64th Legislative Day 1/5/2022 just got screwed over by the Chicago Teachers Union. Not making it easier for people to get back to work. Not making it easier for people to get access to tests and therapeutics at home so they can try to maybe help treat themselves before they take up space in the emergency room and in hospital beds. No, you came here to pass three Bills. A political Bill to get more of your judges into power, precisely because you know you want to try getting niche people to actually vote for you judges. 'Cause as a whole, everybody rejects your judges when they get in power. You did a political Bill to tinker with election requirements. And a Bill to decertify police officers and deny them due process. But boy, you're going to make sure that the criminals get a least three phone calls every single time they get moved around in the process, even if they use those phone calls to threaten witnesses and intimidate them and try and incite destruction of evidence. This has been a great Session for the political activist insider class and the people who fund you, but it's utterly destructive for the normal law-abiding class in Illinois. Welcome to the out-of-touch Democratic Party in Springfield."