Illinois House Floor Debate — April 1, 1981

"The House will please come to order and the Members will be in their seats. Be led in pr'aye'r this morning by Reverend Flesner from the Grace Luthern Church located in Springfield. Reverend Flesner."

"Let us bow our heads in pr'aye'r. Almighty God, Gracious Heavenly Father, we acknowledge your presence as we begin our tasks of this day. Our pr'aye'rs continue with our President, Ronald Reagan, who was to have been with us today. We are grateful for Your gift to him of the strong constitution and good health, for the skills of the doctors who attended him and for Your healing presence with him in his good recovery. Our pr'aye'rs today also continue with Jim Brady, with the two officers wounded in Monday's senseless attack. We are encouraged by the good reports of their progress and we pray to You for their complete and speedy recovery. Continue Your supporting presence with the families of all of those involved. Be with the Reagan's, the Brady's, the Macarthy's, the Delihunt's. Heavenly Father, we pray that You would take from us our society's preoccupation with violence and renew in us those efforts which show unmistakably in word and deed the sanctity of human life which you command us to hold and which will enable our public leaders to serve us without fear. We give You thanks today for all who serve in public office and especially today for those who represent the fullness, the strength and the richness found in the diversity of our State of Illinois. Let your spirit move among them as they wrestle with the needs facing us as a state. Grant them the gift of wisdom and insight as they seek solutions to the issues of this day. Oh God, lead all of us in the direction of a faithful stewardship of the resources that You entrust to our care and our keeping. 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 May those who lead and may those who follow do so with the sensitivity to the way that You would have us walk. Hear these our pr'aye'rs this day, Oh Heavenly Father. Amen."

"Thank you, Reverend. We'll be led in the Pledge today by Representative Epton."

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United State of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

"Roll Call for attendance. Committee Reports."

"Representative Epton, Chairman on Committee on Insurance to which the following Bills were referred, action taken March 31st, 1981, and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'Do pass' House Bills 45 and 305. 'Do pass as amended' House Bill 393. 'Do pass Consent Calendar' House Bills 348 and 475. Representative Huskey, Chairman of the Committee on Motor Vehicles to which the following Bills were referred, action taken March 31st, 1981, and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'Do pass as amended' House Bill 143. Representative Rigney, Chairman on Committee on Agriculture to which the following Bills were referred, action taken March 31st, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'Do pass as amended' House Bill 33. Representative Macdonald, Chairman on Committee on Conservation and Natural Resources to which the followingBills were referred, action taken March 31st, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'Do pass' House Bill 681. 'Do not pass' House Bill 603. 'Do pass as amended' House Bill 633. 'Do pass Consent Calendar' House Bill 544."

"There being 165 Members answering the Roll, a Quorum of the House is present. On page two on the Calendar appears House Bills, Second Reading. House Bill 2  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 57, Representative McAuliffe. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? Representative McAuliffe? Take the Bill out of the record. House Bill 101, Representative Abramson. Out of the record. House Bill 104. Abramson. Out of the record. House Bill 154, Stearney. Out of the record. House Bill 174, Pierce. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 174, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there any Amendments from the floor?"

"None."

"Third Reading. House Bill 203, Hallock. Is the Gentleman on the floor? Out of the record. House Bill 209, Giglio. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 209, a Bill for an Act to amend the Election Code. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Are there any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"

"No Motions filed."

"Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. House Bill 229, Huskey. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? Out of the record. House Bill 274, Huskey. Out of the record. House Bill 284, Stiehl. Out of the record. House Bill 334, Tate. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? Representative Tate? Out of the record. House Bill 342. Balanoff. Is the Lady in the chamber? Out of the record. House Bill 354, Sandquist. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 354, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Municipal Code. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee." 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"

"No Motions filed."

"Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, Sandquist, amends House Bill 354 on page five and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Sandquist."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment #2 to House Bill 354 is one that I agreed in Committee I would put on on the floor. I worked it out with the Department of Mental Health and with Representatives Preston and Levin and I would ask for its adoption."

"Any discussion on the Gentleman's Amendment? The question is...The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bullock." .Bullock: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Gentleman explain to us briefly what the Amendment does?"

"Indicates he will."

"Yes, Representative Bullock, what the Bill itself does has to do with the zoning for homes for disabled persons and what the Amendment does, it specifically limits the concentration so that there cannot be two within 1,000 feet of each other. It's the same limitation that we have in the Chicago ordinance."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Piel."

"One quick question Leroy. Is this...These are new units, correct? And not existing units?"

"That is correct."

"Thank you."

"Is there any further discussion? The question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 to House Bill 354 be adopted?' All in 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 favor will signify by saying 'aye'. Opposed 'no'. The ''ayes'' have it and the Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. House Bill 366, Greiman. Is the Gentleman on the floor? Out of the record. House Bill 385, Schraeder. Representative Schraeder on the floor? Out of the record. House Bill 394, Flinn. Representative Flinn, do you want your Bill called? 394, read the Bill."

"House Bill 394, a Bill for an Act in relationship to advertising space on public mass transit vehicles. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendments #1 and 2 were adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions filed with respect to Amendments 1 or 2?"

"No Motions filed."

"Any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. House Bill 496, Schneider. Is the Gentlemanon the floor? Out of the record. House Bill 497, Hoffman. Out of the record. House Bill 498, Mulcahey. Is the Gentleman on the floor? Read the Bill."

"House Bill 498, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Any there any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"

"No Motions filed."

"Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, Mulcahey, amends House Bill 498 as amended."

"The Gentleman....Mr. Mulcahey. On Amendment #2, Representative." 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Amendment #2 to House Bill 498 is one which we agreed upon in Committee to eliminate some confusion there was concerning the five snow days. This is agreed to by Mr. Reilly, Chairman of the Education Committee, and our side of the aisle as well. It simply indicates that once the five snow days are used up, then and only then can the additional one hour restriction be implied (sic). And I would move the adoption of the Amendment."

"Is there any discussion to Amendment #2 to House Bill 498? The Gentleman moves the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 498. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye'; all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. And the Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. House Bill 525. Representative Peters. Out of the record. House Bill 529, Representative Woodyard. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 529, a Bill for an Act relating to the nomination of multi-township assessors. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any further Amendments? Amendments from the floor?"

"Floor Amendment #1, Woodyard, amends House Bill 529 on page three, line 21 and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Edgar, Representative Woodyard."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #1 is a purely technical Amendment that was brought to my attention by the staff on the other side of the aisle that we were actually referring to the wrong Section of the Revenue Act on page three, line 21. And this corrects that reference." 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Is there any discussion with respect to Amendment #1 to House Bill 529? The Gentleman moves the adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill 529. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye'; all opposed 'no'. The ''ayes'' have it and the Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Introduction and First Reading of House Bills."

"House Bill 906, White, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Pension Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 907, Bowman, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Election Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 908, Yourell, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 909, Reilly-Schneider, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Psychiatrist's Registration Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 910, Bower, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Bingo License Tax Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 911, Giorgi-Hanahan, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Personnel Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 912, Giorgi-Matijevich, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Vehicle Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 913, Giorgi-Hanahan, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Vehicle Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 914, Giorgi, et al, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the revocation of nonrental auto insurance. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 915, Bowman-Levin, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 916, Giglio, et al, a Bill for an Act in relationship to eligible employees under Workmens...Workers' Compensation and Workers' Occupational 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Disease Acts. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 917, Bowman, et al, a Bill for an Act to add Sections to the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 918, DiPrima, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Senior Citizens and Disabled Persons' Property Tax Relief Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 919, Catania, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Minimum Wage Law. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 920, Miller, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Inheritance and Transfer Tax Law. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 921, Miller, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend the Inheritance and Transfer Tax Laws. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 922, Miller, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Inheritance and Transfer Tax Law. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 923, Balanoff, a Bill for an Act in relationship to regulatory agency officials upon termination of their governmental service. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 924, McClain, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Pension Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 925, Neff, et al, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Illinois Motor Vehicles Law Commission. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 926, Davis, a Bill for an Act to provide for the elected Board to operate transportation systems of the Regional Transportation Authority and Chicago Transit Authority. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 927, Davis, a Bill for an Act to regulate private employment agencies in the State of Illinois and the repeal of certain Acts herein named. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 928, Davis-Reilly, a Bill for an Act relating to state financing of School Districts. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 929, Terzich-Stuffle, et al, a Bill for an Act setting forth certain rights which are to be granted to 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 firemen. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 930, Terzich, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act creating the Law Revision Commission. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 931, Terzich, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Pension Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 932, Kociolko, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to licensing and regulation of plumbers. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 933, Mautino-Farley, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Park District Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 934, Hoffman, a Bill for an Act in relationship to award contracts by schools and community colleges. Second..First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 935, Stewart-Jaffe-Barnes, et al, a Bill for an Act to add Sections to the Code of Criminal Procedure. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 936, Ewell-Stewart, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Criminal Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 937, Sandquist, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act in relationship to the adoption of persons. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 938, Deuster, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Juvenile Court. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 939, Matijevich, et al, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Chain of Lakes-Fox River Commission. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 940, Stuffle-Wikoff, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Pension Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 941, Huff, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unemployment Insurance Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 942, Winchester, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Election Code. First Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hoffman, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek recognition to table 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 House Bill 602. I would ask leave to table House Bill 602."

"Are you the Chief Sponsor...?"

"..I am the Chief Sponsor."

"Okay. The Gentleman asks leave to table House Bill 602. Are there objections? Hearing none, House Bill 602 is tabled."

"House Bill 943, Tuerk, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend the Workers' Compensation Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 944, Tuerk, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend the Workers' Compensation Act. First Reading of the Bill."

"Change of votes, Mr. Clerk."

"Representative Mautino requests to vote 'no' on Amendment #3 to House Bill 737. Representative Karpiel requests to vote 'no' on Amendment #6 to House Bill 743. Representative Piel requests to vote 'aye' on House Bill 738, Amendment #2. Representative Jesse White requests to vote 'aye' on Amendment #2 to House Bill 738."

"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Flinn, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Mr. Speaker, I would ask leave of the House to table House Bill 395."

"Are you the Chief Sponsor, Representative?"

"I'm the only Sponsor. I've joined Representative Bartulis in an identical Bill and there's no point in carrying two Bills with the same things on them. So, I ask leave of the House."

"Did you say you were the Chief Sponsor?"

"Yes. I am the only Sponsor."

"What's the number, Representative?"

"395."

"The Gentleman asks leave to table House Bill 395. 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Are there objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. House Bill 395 is tabled. Any objections to the change of vote that's been read by the Clerk? Hearing none, the changes will be made. On the Calendar on page two under of the Order of House Bills, Second Reading, Short Debate Calendar appears House Bill 133, Representative Braun. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 133, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Human Rights Act. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Amendments from the floor?"

"No Floor Amendments."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Braun."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill passed out of Committee nine votes to nothing. It is known as a 'hearing ear dog Bill'. All it does is allow deaf people access with their hearingear dogs under the same conditions that are previously allowed blind people under the law. It's a very noncontroversial, simple Bill and I'd appreciate a 'yes' vote."

"Third Reading. House Bill 476, Representative DiPrima. You want to hear your Bill, Representative? Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 476, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"

"No Motions filed."

"Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, Mr. Huskey...."

"...Just a minute, Mr. Clerk. Just a minute. For what purpose does the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Getty, arise?" 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Mr. Speaker, I would just like to call to the Gentleman's attention there's apparently a typographical error regarding Amendment #1. It reads in line two, 'amend House Bill 469' and in fact, this is House Bill 476. I just wonder if the Gentleman wouldn't ask for leave to amend it on its face?"

"Representative DiPrima? This is your Bill we're talking about. Did you hear the Gentleman's suggestion to you? The Gentleman asks leave to amend House Bill 476, Amendment #1, on its face. Are there objections?"

"No, Sir...I.. Mr. Speaker, I move to amend..."

"Hearing none, leave is ..leave is granted. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, Huskey, amends House Bill 476 on page one, line 20 and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huskey on Amendment #2 to House Bill 476."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the Amendment #2 to House Bill 476 is nothing but a technical change. It just changes the word from 'Article' to the word 'Code' on line 20. That's all it does."

"Is there any discussion on the Gentleman's Amendment? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I just opened the Digest to look up this House Bill 476 and you can imagine my delight and happiness to learn that I'm a Cosponsor."

"Let the record so indicate that Representative Collins and Representative DiPrima are Cosponsors of this Bill. The Gentleman has asked for the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 476. All in favor...The Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite, on Amendment 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 #2 to House Bill 476."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, now that Amendment #1 has been amended on its face, it looks to me as though Amendment #2 is exactly the same as Amendment #1 and I wonder if the Sponsor of Amendment #2 is aware of that?"

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huskey."

"I move that Amendment #1 be tabled and Amendment #2 be adopted."

"Representative Huskey, have you discussed this with the Chief Sponsor of this Bill, Representative DiPrima?"

"No, this was...This Amendment came to me by the staff stating it was a technical change and it needed to be added to straighten up the Bill. It doesn't change the Bill. It just changes the word 'Article' to 'Code'. That's all it does."

"The Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite."

"Representative Huskey, I think the problem was that Amendment #1 had a technical error which was addressed just a few minutes ago by changing one number on the face of the Amendment. Now that that has been accomplished and Amendment #1 is a part of the Bill, I think your Amendment #2 is technically no longer necessary."

"Representative Huskey."

"In my...If Amendment #1 has been amended on its face, then it's perfectly alright. But the original Amendment #1 had the wrong number. It had 'House Bill 469..."

"We changed that on its face, Representative."

"Alright. That's been faced on...then you can table Amendment #2."

"The Gentleman asks to table Amendment #2. Table 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Amendment#2. Further Amendments?...Withdraw Amendment #2."

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman."

"Well, point of inquiry, Mr. Speaker. You informed us that we've been operating under temporary rules, which means the 6th of April is the deadline for introduction of Bills and the 6th of April is next week when we're scheduled to be on vacation. And I wondered if you were planning a perfunctory Session so that those of us who were getting Bills back from the Reference Bureau would be able to have them introduced?"

"You'll certainly have the opportunity, Representative."

"Will there be a perfunctory Session?"

"Well, I don't know how we'll do it. We may be here in person. I don't know."

"Well, okay. I just wanted to be able to make my plans. Thank you."

"Don't make too many. The Clerk has some fears I failed to move House Bill 476 to the Order of Third Reading, ...Third Reading Short Debate after the Amendment was read and so I now move House Bill 476 to the Order of Third Reading, Short Debate. The Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich."

"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to request a recess for a Republican caucus in room 114 for approximately 40 minutes."

"118 is the room, Representative."

"Alright. 114.."

"No, 114."

"114, Mr. Speaker."

"You're right, 114. Republican Conference in room 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 114. How much time, Representative?"

"About forty minutes please."

"Forty minutes. Well, let's make it forty-five. The House will be back in Session at 1:30. Republican Conference in room 114, immediately."

"The House will come to order and the Members will be in their seats. On page six of the Calendar under the Order of Concurrence appears House Bill 141, Representative Hoxsey. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 141, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act making appropriations to the Supreme Court."

"The Lady from LaSalle, Representative Hoxsey."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 141 passed from the House. It was majorly a tranfer Bill for the Appellate Court district in Ottawa. In the Senate they amended it with three Amendments. Senate Amendment 1 appropriated 50,000 dollars to the legislative leadership and staff of the Senate. The additional funding was needed to meet some travel expenses. The Senate Amendment 2 appropriated 49,100 dollars to the spouse of Senator MaryLou Kent. This money represents the unpaid compensation for the remainder of Senator Kent's two year term. By law this balance is now owed to the surviving spouse. Senate Amendment 3 transfered 49,500 dollars from the Ethnic Heritage Commission to the Department of Agriculture for developing and rehabilitating asite for conducting an ethnic heritage festival. This is a transfer Amendment and does not increase the appropriation. I would ask the House to concur with Senate Amendments 1, 2, and 3 of House Bill 141."

"Is there any discussion? Question is, 'Shall the House concur in the Senate Amendments to House Bill 141?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by 15  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 129 voting 'aye', 10 voting 'no', 11 voting present. And the House concurs in the Senate Amendments to House Bill 141. The Bill is hereby declared passed. Introduction and First Reading of House Bills."

"House Bill 945, Daniels, a Bill for an Act making an appropriation to the Judicial Inquiry Board. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 946, McPike, et al, a Bill for an Act in relationship to State Compensation Insurance Fund. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 947, Winchester, a Bill for an Act to amend the law in relationship to vacancies in county offices. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 948, Richmond, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Pension Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 949, Hallock-Jack Dunn, et al, a Bill for an Act in relation to registration of dealers of antique, used and scrap gold and silver objects. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 950, Hallock-Peters-Chapman, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 951, Epton-Mautino, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act to revise the law in relationship to criminal justice prudence. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 952, Ronan-Collins, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act in relationship to compensation of enullments of the Members of the General Assembly. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 953, O'Connell, et al, a Bill for an Act to regulate purchasers of precious metals. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 954, Giorgi, a Bill for an Act to create an office of job protection and find its powers and duties. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 955, Vinson, a Bill for an Act to amend certain Acts 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 in relationship to health care. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 956, Hannig, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Animal Control Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 957, Daniels, a Bill for an Act to add Sections to the Motor Vehicle Franchise Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 958, Younge, a Bill for an Act to establish the Illinois Community College Development Finance Corporation. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 959, Younge, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Promotion Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 960, Younge, a Bill for an Act to create the Metro-east Economic Development Authority. First Reading of the Bill."

"It's the intention of the Chair to adjourn shortly, recess at least for Committee hearings and to come back into the House this evening at 7:00 to continue to work. Page three under House Bills, Second Reading appears House Bill 737. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser. Out of the record. House Bill 738. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Are there any Amendments, Mr. Speaker?"

"Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 738 has been read a second time previously. No further Amenmdents."

"Third Reading. House Bill 739."

"House Bill..."

"Just a minute. Representative Darrow, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Was a fiscal note filed on that Bill?"

"Fiscal note filed on 738, Mr. Clerk?"

"As amended."

"Leave 738, Mr. Clerk. 738 will remain on Second Reading. House Bill 739, Representative Telcser. Out of 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 the record. House Bill 740, Representative Telcser. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 740 has been read a second time previously."

"Any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lechowicz."

"Mr. Speaker, yesterday I asked what would be the fiscal impact in the City of Chicago with the reduction of the tax within the county area, and in all good faith, asked for a fiscal note on that Bill and the entire series and the Gentleman was kind enough to say that he had the same intent in trying to come up with an adequate fiscal note to see, one, if there was enough money in this entire series of Bills to accomodate what's been discussed in the press as fair an adequate mass transit road and bridge program forthe state. Unfortunately, I don't believe the fiscal notes have been filed on any one of these Bills, and for this reason I would humbly request..."

"Representative Lechowicz, I've already moved House Bill 738. going to leave that on Second Reading. House Bill 740, as indicated on your Calendar today, the fiscal note and the State Mandates Act fiscal note has been filed, and it's on file with the Clerk. Third Reading on House Bill 740. House Bill 741. Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, I rise simply to remind you of your statement to me that all of these Bills would be held for Second Reading on both Tuesday and Wednesday."

"Is that your pleasure, Representative? You want to hold these Bills?"

"Yes. That was your statement to me." 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Well, I'll be glad to do that if you persist. These Bills have been on the Calendar for some time, Representative Madigan, and at this point there are no Amendments filed. I thought it might be..."

"I'm only reminding you of your statement to me..."

"If that's your wish, you want to keep these Bills on Second Reading, Representative, we'll hold them. Hold House Bill 740 on the Order of Second Reading per request of Representative Madigan. Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, I didn't hear the Minority Leader say he wants them on Second, but if he does, I'd like to know how long will they be on Second."

"Do you care to respond to that, Representative Madigan.?"

"Do you want them there for a couple of weeks or a month or how long?"

"Will I be allowed to finish my statement?"

"Proceed, Representative."

"Will I be allowed to finish?"

"Proceed, Representative Madigan."

"I have no guarantee that I'll be able to finish. Mr. Majority Leader, I simply attempted to remind the Speaker of a statement he made to me which was to the effect that all of the Bills in the Governor's tax package would be left on the Order of Second Reading for at least Tuesday and Wednesday. The Speaker moved one of those Bills to the Order of Third Reading so I simply wanted to remind him of what he told me and what them I told the Democratic Members."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Daniels."

"Well, that being the case, will the Gentleman allow you to move it to Third now? Is that alright with him?" 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"No. The Gentleman requests that they remain on Second Reading and that's what we're going to do. We're going to leave them on Second Reading."

"Mr. Speaker, there's a few of us on this side of the aisle that are a little bit concerned about the activity by the Minority Leader. We're very curious as to the problem that now seems to exist in the City of Chicago because of the operation of the CTA and because of the ineffecient operation of taxpayers money in the utilization of mass transportation in that area. And now this Gentleman's telling us that these Bills have to remain on Second Reading vital time convening away when we want to act on them right now. We want to put them in the order so that we can pass them and put them in the Senate to avoid a transportation shut-down. Who are you kidding, Mr. Minority Leader? Who are you playing with? Are you playing with the people of Chicago and the people of northern Illinois? What are you trying to do, shut down the system on purpose so you can create a phony crisis? Why don't you move the Bills to Third? Why don't you let us act on them so that we can avoid a crisis?"

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan, do you seek recognition? Representative Madigan."

"Just in partial reply to your hard-hitter from the suburbs. I thought I heard you say that we would be in Session tonight so that if we are..."

"You heard right, Representative."

"So that if we are in Session tonight there will be another opportunity to move this particular Bill to Third Reading tonight if everybody's had their opportunity to amend."

"The Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich." 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I'm just going to ask the Minority Leader if he'd be willing to let them be sent to Third with the understanding they could be brought back. I'm thinking of the time element and that certainly would not preclude him from offering Amendments, but it would also would make it possible to address them."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Ewell."

"Mr. Speaker, as a matter curiosity, we're not going to take the Bill that we put on Third and call it back to Second and amend it and pass it out as a shell are we?"

"I didn't understand you, Representative."

"Are we going to use the Bill that went to Third as a shell Bill?"

"I guess that's for you to determine, Representative. Certainly not a function of the Chair to determine which Bills are shell Bills and which ones aren't." .

"I just wondered."

"Are there any announcements pertaining to Committees? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Peters."

"Mr. Speaker, a parliamentary inquiry if I may?"

"Proceed."

"Just an inquiry in regard to the order. Does the Chair have any idea at this point as to whether or not we will be in Session through the weekend or to next week?"

"I... No, I can't tell you at this time whether we're going to be in Session this weekend or next week, Representative Peters. I think everybody knows that we've spent the last three days or so on the transportation Bills to meet the crisis in the state and I am not in a position to say whether we're going to be here or not."

"Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, let me just say this. I 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 think there are a number of us who, because of the area we come from are vitally interested in solving the problem that effects our transportation system. Let me also say that a number of us are very quickly approaching the decision that the individuals who manage the transportation program and the six collar county area have not been exactly telling the truth to this General Assembly in terms of what they need, how much they need and when they need it. And I am reaching that conclusion only because of what I perceive as the hesitency on the part of those who should be speaking for the managers of that transportation system to, in fact, impact very deliberately and significantly on the system we have here. Now, you have kept us one evening, have intention of keeping us another evening and probably into the next day or maybe the weekend in an attempt to work out this problem. Now those of us who have been here some period of time know or at least have a feeling that what is happening is that what happens generally at the end of the Session is happening much too early except one of the key participants is not involving his or herself in the deliberations that must take place if we're going to reach some solution here. I would suggest for the benefit of the Members on our side of the aisle and for you, Mr. Speaker, that we have done what we came here to do and have tried to do and put forth our ultimate best effort considering the problems and diversities we have on our side of the aisle. And any objective observer must understand and must know those problems we have and in spite of that have moved forward, have attempted to move forward under your leadership and direction in terms of putting forth this package. I, for one, Mr. Speaker, as part of your leadership do not feel that we have been delinquent, nor do I feel the Members on this side of the 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 aisle have been delinquent, nor do I feel that you in any way, shape, manner, or form have shirk your duty in bringing some order into the chaos we now have with the legislation that is before this General Assembly. I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that you consider very seriously the fact that you have fulfilled your obligations and that if the other parties who are interested in solving this problem have other kinds of problems then we just set aside all of these Bills and come back to them in April, May, June or whenever they are ready to sit down and negotiate and not to put the House through this kind of trauma and this kind of on the edge of crisis kind of situation which, frankly, most of us are beginning to believe is a lot of crying wolf with no bark. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, let me first say that I will only move into this discussion as a result of the comments of the immediate prior speaker who attempted to paint a picture of sincerity on your part and on the part of the Governor of this state. To you, Mr. Speaker, and to you, the previous speaker, I respectfully disagree. I have participated in this work just as all of you have. I stayed here all day last Friday, all day Saturday. I've been here all of the time that we have been Session. My observation of the Legislative process for the last few days as contrasted with my observations of the legislative process over last ten years is leading me to the conclusion that there is no sincerity, no sincerity on the majority side of the aisle. I don't see any direction being offered by the leadership on that side of the aisle. I don't see any direction being offered by the Governor of the state who has prepared this package of Bills and convinced the Speaker of the House to act as a Sponsor of these Bills. The only action that I 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 have seen occurred late last night when a Member of the Majority Leadership offered an Amendment to the Governor's Bill sponsored by the Speaker of the House which completely eliminated all of the Governor's provisions in the Bill and rendered all subsequent Amendments out of order. That's the only action I've seen to date and it's leading me to believe that there's no sincerity on that side of the aisle, that you're not serious about this problem, that you're just requiring all of us to stay here in Session, hour after hour into the late moments of the night so that you can say to the media, 'We were here. We did our part. We met our duty.' But it's not enough meeting your duties simply to stay here and to consider Amendments. You must provide direction and you must provide leadership and I've said from the beginning there must be leadership from the Executive offices on the second floor. And to those of you who say that local governmental officials should be involving themselves in this process, I refer you to previous occasions when there were arrangements between the Governor and local government officials and they were decried as unwarranted infringement upon the legislative process. Now I say to you decide for once and for all. Either you want outsiders interjecting themselves into your work or you wish to stand here as Legislators and to make decisions on your own and to assume legislative responsibility. But in conclusion, Mr. Speaker, please remove the smile from your face. This is a serious matter."

"I thought that's why you pointed at me, Representative."

"I'm asking you to remove the smile from your face, sir, because this is a serious matter and I question your sincerity when I see a Member of your leadership offer an 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Amendment to your Bill, you gavel through on a voice vote against the objections of Democrats and what it does is to eliminate the Governor's program. I question your sincerity."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I always enjoy hearing the Minority Leader give us his political hocum and flim flam. That's worth another press release or maybe another television interview, but the factof the matter is the Minority Leader has very, very obviously removed himself from the participation in solving a critical problem which rests most heavily upon the city where he and I are elected from. The Gentleman has been offered Cosponsorship of Bills. He's been asked to participate. He's over and over refused to do so. In fact, last night the time at which Amendment #28 offered, he was not even on the floor of the House. I don't know where he was, but at the point where Amendment 28 was adopted, he wasn't even present among the Members on his side of the aisle to give them direction. And I suggest to you, Mr. Speaker, perhaps that was deliberate. Perhaps they wanted the Amendment adopted so they could continue to participate in cheap political shots that have no substance and no basis infact. What the Minority Leader wants to do is to preserve the politics of Chicago and to maintain a transportation system that may very well be a patronage haven for precinct captains and political workers. I've always felt that wasn't the case, but the Minority Leader's actions lead me to believe my suburban and collar county colleagues. They may be correct. I don't know why the Gentleman stays away from the Bills, why the Gentleman stays away from the table when he's offered to negotiate. I suggest, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, that the Minority Leader may very 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 well want the system to shut down thinking he can come to the Assembly, in an atmosphere of panic and bedlam and walk away again with millions of dollars to continue politics in Chicago. Well, I suggest that the Minority Leader ought to get serious about this, work with the Speaker, work with the Governor and do what is ever necessary to reach consensus on this awesome, critical problem. Politics as usual, Mr. Minority Leader, is not going to work and you ought to realize that now."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Wolf. Representative Wolf, did you have a... Motion?"

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, I would ask the House to suspend the posting notice on the following appropriation Bills so they may be assigned to Appropriation Committee tomorrow for the purpose of assigning them to Subcommittees. There will be no testimony taken. There will be ample notice given. I cleared this with the Minority Leader and the Minoirty Spokesman on the Appropriations Committee. The Bills in question are House Bills 761, 766, 783, 788, 805, 827, 830, 832, 852, 856, 897, 925, 939, and 945."

"Gentleman asks leave to have the Bills he just read, the posting rules suspended. Is the leave granted? Are there objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. Are there further announcements? Gentleman from Madison, Representative Steele."

"Mr. Speaker, the Transportation... on the order of announcements, Transportation Subcommittee listed on page ten is going to meet in Room 122B as originally scheduled and not as shown on the Calendar. So that 4:00 meeting, Transportation Subcommittee will be in 122B."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Meyer, Ted Meyer." 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Meyer, T.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Energy and Environment Committee will meet in the Stratton Office Building in the Commerce Commission hearing room 304."

"Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hoffman."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Due to the change in the House schedule, the School Problems Commission meeting which was scheduled for 7:00 this evening has been postponed until 10:30 in the morning, same location."

"Gentleman from Will, Representative Davis."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Appropriations Subcommittee regarding the Illinois Building Authority has been changed from room D-1 to room 118 and will meet immediately after adjournment."

"Gentleman from Hardin, Representative Winchester."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Elections Committee will meet immediately upon adjournment in Room C-1. We've only got an hour and a half. It's important that everyone get there right away."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lechowicz, do you seek recognition?"

"It's not a purpose of an announcement, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to respond to the Majority Leader when he questioned where the Minority Leader was. Just for the edification of this House, and I know many of the Democratic Members have participated in reviewing the entire Governor's package on transportation, we on this side have tried to our utmost to correct some of the serious flaws as we seem them in the seven Bills that were introduced by the Speaker. We have assigned our best staff. We've asked for input from the Membership from every Member on this side to review these Bills. The review has been conducted in Representative Madigan's office and my office and we, in good faith, not only did we 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 prepare Amendments to correct some of the serious defects as we see them in those Bills but we're also trying to get the necessary number of votes to pass this package of Bills. That's more than I can say for the Republican Party and the orchestration I've seen already today by three people in backing down an a commitment as far as votes. That's the bottom line. The number of votes that are necessary to pass these Bills out of this House and I can see you're leadership is not doing the job. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hudson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Committee on Higher Education will meet this afternoon at 4:00 in Room C-1."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Epton."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, just before we adjourn I wonder, Mr. Speaker, if you would assign a member of the staff to advise me what it takes to impeach 176 Members of this House."

"I'll have the answer for you in just a little bit. The Gentleman from Knox, Representative McMaster."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to let the Members of the Counties and Townships Committee know that we will meet immediately after adjournmentin Room D-1."

"Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson."

"I'd just make a point, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, that this isn't the first time that we've seen the Minority Leader sit on his hands on a transportation issue before."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, I move that the House stand in recess until 7:00 p.m. this evening."

"Gentleman moves that the House stand in recess till 7:00 p.m. this evening. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 House stands in recess."

"Attention Members of the House of Representatives. The House will convene in five minutes. All persons not entitled to the House floor, please retire to the gallery."

"The House will be in order and Rigney will be in his seat. Committee Reports."

"Representative Reilly, Chairman on Committee on Elementary and Secondary Education to which the following Bills were referred, action taken April 1, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass' House Bill 636, 654, and 722. 'Do pass' as amended House Bill 441 and 566. Representative Ewing, Chairman on Committee on Revenue to which the following Bills were referred, action taken April 1, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass' House Bill 370. 'Do pass' as amended House Bill 97. 'Do not pass' as amended House Bill 111. Representative McMaster, Chairman on the Committee on Counties and Townships to which the following Bills were referred, action taken April 1, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass' House Bills 561 and 579. 'Do not pass' House Bill 634. 'Do pass' Consent Calendar House Bill 600. Representative Leinenweber, Chairman from the Committee on Judiciary I to which the following Bills were referred, action taken April 1, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass' House Bill 64, 412, 415, 455, 512, and 54...534. 'Do pass' as amended House Bill 38, 145, 270 and 514. 'Do pass' Consent Calendar House Bill 431. 'Do pass' as amended Consent Calendar House Bill 346. Representative Ted Meyer, Chairman from the Committee on Energy and Environment to which the following Bills were referred, action taken April 1, 1981 and reported the same 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981. back with the following recommendations: 'do pass' House Bill 301."

"Introduction and First Reading of House Bills."

"House Bill 961, McBroom-Ryan, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act concerning aquariums and museums of public parks. FirstReading of the Bill. House Bill 962, McPike-Slape, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to safety of persons required to enter underground suers. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 963, Bradley, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Insurance Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 964, Hoffman-Fawell, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to revise the law in relationship to counties. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 965, Hoffman, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act in relationship to county zoning. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 966, Bowman,-Sandquist, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the continuation of certain employee health and accidental benefits. FirstReading of the Bill. House Bill 967, Farley, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act authorizing the Chicago Park District to provide for the creation of maintenance and administration of the working cash fund. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 968, Farley-Ronan, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 969, Farley-Ronan, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Pension Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 970, Diana Nelson, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to revise the law in relationship toclerks of the court. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 971, Stuffle-Rigney. A Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Revenue Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 972, Ronan, et al, a Bill for an Act to 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 amend Sections of an Act in relationship to compensation of enullments of Members of the General Assembly. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 973, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the School Construction Bond Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 974, Steczo, et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 975, Currie-Hoffman, et at, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 976, Bullock-Catania, et al,a Bill for an Act to authorize financial assistance to promote culturaland racial integration of students between school districts. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 977, White, et al, a Bill for an Act to authorize financial assistance to promote cultural and racial integration of students within school districts. First Reading of the Bill."

"Page six on the Calendar appears Consent Calendar, Second Reading, Second Day. Read the Bills, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 381, a Bill for an Act in relationship to annual payments received by the State of Illinois from the Tennessee Valley Authority. House Bill 471, a Bill for an Act to amend the Administrative Review Act. House Bill 499, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. House Bill 502, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to create the State Council on Nutrition."

"Third Reading. ... Calendar on the Order of House Bills, Second Reading appears House Bill 57, Representative McAuliffe. Out of the record. House Bill 101, Representative Abramson. Out of the record. House Bill 104, Representative Abramson. Out of the record. House Bill 154, Stearney. Out of the record. House Bill 203, Representative Hallock. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 203, a Bill for an Act to amend the 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Minimum Wage Law. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Amendments from the floor?"

"Floor Amendment #1, Hallock. Amends House Bill 203 on page one, line five and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Hallock."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker..."

"On Amendment #1 to House Bill 203."

"... and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #1 is persuant to an agreement reached in the Committee and I move to adopt."

"Is there any discussion on the Gentleman's Amendment? The Gentleman from Madison, Representative McPike."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"John, there were some objections raised in Committee and you assured the Committee that you would work out this Amendment with those that were raising the objections. This is the first I've seen the Amendment just passed out. Could you explain it to me and tell me who you worked out this Amendment with?"

"The Amendment was worked out with your side of the aisle. The AFL-CIO will not oppose the Amendment. Also, with the Department of Labor. It's to solve the problem but not go farther than we have to."

"Okay. Thank you very much."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Winnebago, to close, Representative Hallock. Care to close, Representative Hallock?"

"I move to adopt."

"Gentleman asks for the adoption of Amendment #1 to 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 House Bill 203. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments."

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Let the record show that Representative Ropp is in the chamber. House Bill 229, Representative Huskey. Representative Huskey, do you want to call House Bill 229? You want to call the Bill, Representative? Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 229, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unemployment Insurance Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"

"No Motions filed."

"Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. House Bill 274, Representative Huskey. Read the Bill."

"House Bill..."

"Out of the record? Out of the record. House Bill 284, Representative Steele. Out of the record. House Bill 334, Representative Tate. Representative Tate. House Bill 334 is on SecondReading. You want the Bill called? Read the Bill."

"House Bill 334, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unemployment Insurance Act. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Amendments from the floor?"

"None."

"Third Reading. House Bill 342, Representative Balanoff. Lady on the floor? Out of the record. House Bill 366, Representative Greiman. The Gentleman on the floor? Out of the record. House Bill 385, Representative 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Schraeder. Out of the record. House Bill 496, Representative Schneider. The Gentleman in the chamber? Out of the record. House Bill 497, Representative Hoffman. Out of the record. House Bill 525. Out of the record. House Bill 737, Representative Telcser. Representative Madigan, do you have any excused absences for today? Representative Getty or... Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, will the record show that Representative John Carey is excused due to illnes."

"The record will so indicate. Representative Telcser, do you have any excused absences?"

"I have none that I know of today, Represe.... Mr. Speaker." Speaker Ryan: :Alright. House Bill 737, Representative Telcser."

"House Bill 737, a Bill for an Act to establish the Illinois Transit Fund. Second Reading of the Bill. It's been read a second time. Amendment #4, Cullerton. Amends House Bill 737 on page one, line 12 and so forth."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton, on Amendment #4."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #4 is a technical Amendment which I believe is agreed to by the Sponsor. It provides that monies appropriated to the Illinois Transit Fund shall be first appropriated to the Illinois Department of Transportationfor distribution. The Bill, as it is set right now, just has the money going to the Illinois Transit Fund which is a new entity. There's no way by which the money can be distributed to the various transit groups. That's the need for the Amendment. I would... I'm under the impression that the staff, the Republican side has reviewed the Amendment and they have no objection to it. With that, I would ask for the adoption of Amendment #4." 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Is there any discussion on Amendment #4? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, Representative Cullerton is correct. It's a technical Amendment. We talked about it yesterday and I also support Amendment #4 to House Bill 737."

"Is there any further discussion?"

"Thank the Representative for his help."

"Is there any further discussion on Amendment #4? Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton, to close."

"I would ask for adoption of Amendment #4."

"Question is, 'Shall Amendment #4 to House Bill 737 be adopted?'. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #5, Cullerton. Amends House Bill 737 on page one and so forth."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton, Amendment #5."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is not a technical Amendment and I would ask for Representative McClain to explain this Amendment."

"Gentleman from Adams, Representative McClain on Amendment #5."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment #5 to House Bill 737 will provide that we delete certainlines in the program by which the gross receipts monies will be expended from the Illinois Transit Fund. This would prohibit, for instance, the Illinois Department of Transportation to use the funds that if per chance this became law would use the funds from this transit fund for the normal operations of Illinois Department of Transportation. In other words, this 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Amendment is basically a non-diversionary Amendent from the transit fund. Whether or not Membership on either side of the aisle is concerned with the gross receipts tax, what this Amendment basically does is a clean up Amendment. It provides that operational expenses should not be expended. Now if you'll look at the purpose of the monies from the Illinois Transit Fund. Basically what it does is the... according to the Governor's program it will mean that the Illinois General Assembly will prorate money from the Illinois Transit Fund. All we're dealing with here from the transit fund will be just issuing checks on what the Assembly would adopt as the funding level for mass transit. This provides that those funds from the gross receipts tax should not be expended for the normal operations of the Illinois Department of Transportation. In other words, I could not hire dozens or hundreds of employees, be they whatever political party for their Illinois Department of Transportation. This would provide that as a flow-through agency that indeed this money should be expended soley for transit and not for any job."

"Is there any further discussion? The Lady from Cook, Representative Pullen."

"I'd like to ask the Gentleman a few questions please."

"He indicates he'll answer."

"I think the Amendment also eliminates use of this money for inner-city rail passenger service. Is that correct?

"Yes."

"Could you explain that, please since you didn't include that in your presentation?"

"Well, that gets taken care of through the transit fund through the normal transit fund set up that the Governor has in his program. Really, the focus of this, Miss Pullen, is to stop all the operational expenses be it the 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Illinois Department of Transportation, Division of Public Transportation, Bureau of Railroads Operation, mass transportation activities or the administrative expenses of the Department of Revenue."

"But when you cut out the inter city rail passenger service, that's not just administrative expense is it?"

"No, but they get their money through the transit fund and another area. They happen to be under Subsections of the original Bill in 737 and they will not be excluded from funds from the transit fund. They are not harmed at all, Penny. I can tell you that for sure. They happen to be under Subsections of the Governor's Bill and they are taken care of through normal grants according to the Governor's program notwithstanding what I'm doing now."

"One of the phrases that you're taking out is, 'all other mass transportation activities of IDOT'. What are those?"

"We only deal with lines on page one, lines 28 through 33 and on page two, 1 through 7..."

"I'm reading line one on page two. 'All of the mass transportation activities of IDOT authorized by the Civil Administrative Code'. What are those activities?"

"Those are jobs. Those are operational jobs that IDOT now has with the formula if counties opt out of the TF... or the RTA, if they opt out they will have a formula by which they will receive monies. There is no reason for IDOT to have any operational expenses or jobs because IDOT will only be a flow-through agency. The only item that IDOT will have that will overlook either opted out districts or downstate districts will be on federal funds. And this does not deal with that Section."

"And you don't think that it would be appropriate for the expenses of the Department of Revenue that deal with collecting and distributing this tax to be taken out of 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 this tax."

"Correct."

"You think that the taxpayers of the State of Illinois under all their other taxes ought to have to foot the Bill for collecting and distributing this monster."

"Penny, if I would get your vote on the final Bill on Third Reading, because we will separate out operational expenses for the Department of Revenue, I'll strike those lines."

"Are you trying to get my vote for the gross receipts tax?"

"No. Miss Pullen..."

"That's what it sounded like."

"What I'm saying is I believe that you ought to have pure funds and the Department of Revenue right now has the mechanisms in place to collect taxes and to distribute taxes. I do not think that they ought to have the sum of money that they are requesting as a maximum for operational expenses. I think that if a gross receipts tax is placed in the Illinois Transit Fund or the Road Fund or motor fuel taxes ought to be non-diversionary and that's all we're trying to do with this Amendment."

"But this is a new tax isn't it, Representative?"

"That's right."

"I'm not so sure they have all their mechanisms in place to collect a new tax. Thank you."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I really don't think this is too controversial an Amendment. What we're doing here is Governor Thompson has proposed a new gas tax in effect and what we're saying is that in his Bill he's saying that out of this specific 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 fund we should give money to the Department of Revenue to collect the tax. Well we have a state income tax. We have a state sales tax. The Department of Revenue doesn't get their operations money specifically from those funds, they get it from the general revenue fund and this is what we're saying here in this Amendment. That the money it costs additional employees that you have to put on in the Department of Revenue, they should be paid out of appropriations that we appropriate here to... for their operations. That the money shouldn't come out of this special fund that we have just established, that the Governor's established with this new tax. The same thing is true for the operations of the Department of Transportation. They receive money from the road fund and the money to... appropriated to this road fund, to the DOT doesnot come specifically out of that fund. So that's all we're saying withthis Amendment."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, the Lady from Cook who spoke earlier was absolutely correct. Amendment #5 to Senate Bill 737 in our view is not an Amendment which is compatible with the programs and once more it would cost the general revenue fund administrative dollars to which the Representative referred earlier. It's quite interesting to me to observe Members, some Members on the other side of the aisle who are now strong proponents of non-diversion. The administrative cost of collecting the tax surely is a logical method by which we should expend dollars raised by the tax. To cause or impact on the general revenue fund excessive costs which are not really necessary, I think really isn't too logical an approach. Amendment #5 would force us to take money out of the 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 general revenue fund in order to administer programs such as Amtrak. Amendment #5 is not compatible with the program and I urge a no vote."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Ewell."

"Mr. Speaker, could I ask the Sponsor of the Amendment a question?"

"He indicates he'll answer."

"Why is it so necessary to... Why is it so necessary to make sure that all of these funds for the collection of the money come from general revenue and not allow them simply to come from the tax that's being used to collect it?"

"Thank you. Ray, here's the problem as I see it. What happens in departments, be it democratic departments or republican departments, isthat they rip-off user fees be it real estate license fees, road fund taxes or whatever and instead of having the normal operations of departments being paid for out of the general revenue fund, what they do is they put a person on a third time doing the collection of this gross receipts tax and two-thirds of the time onto another kind of governmental issue. So what they do is they use this tax to balloon the general revenue fund to encourage more employment, get more bureaucrats on, to encourage less reliance on the general revenue fund for their operations and to take money from mass transit and highways."

"Well, I can't quite agree with that because you always cry that we're taking money from mass transit and fund the highways. The highways don't put the money in to begin with, the motor fuel tax does. And the motor fuel tax is paid out of Cook County basically. In other words, it's the one tax where we do most of the paying and collect the same amount of money. Now you'd never allow us to say, 'Well, if you collect motor fuel tax in Cook County, we'll 40  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 let you keep it and we'll let you use that money in order to pay for your transit system or anything else you want to'. I mean, but instead you're always trying to take the money away. Now I have to be a little alert because you told the Body that this was a clean-up Bill and whenever I look around for a clean-up Bill the question is, 'Who you cleaning up for?'. And my answer and analysis in this question is that you're taking of your own private interest at the expense of the state's general revenue fund for which again the citizens of Cook County have to pay the most money. That's not fair. It's not equitable and this Amendment ought not go on."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Adams, Representative McClain."

"I feel really uncomfortable with a Member of my own party disagreewith me. Ray, according to the Governor's figures, 60% of the tax will come from the six county area. All we're trying to assure is that 60% ends up going back into the six county area. If you want Chicago and Cook County that pays 42% of the general fund to get less of that general fund back to the Chicago-Cook County area, that's fine. If that's what you want, that's fine. I think you're defeating yourselves. You're sort of like a .....but that's okay with me. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Amendment is a non-diversionary Amendment. I think if you're interested in pure funds, whether or not real estate license fees are handled so that real estate education... cotinuing an education taken care of from them, that's fine. If you're interested in road fund dollars going for roads and not for... aeronautics buildings or new planes or anything like that, then I think this is in conjunction with your philosophy. The issue here is whether or not you end up ballooning the general 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 revenue fund and harming the gross receipts tax or you end having more money for state construction to account for highways and more money for mass transit and less for normal operations of departments. I'd ask for an 'aye' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #5 to House Bill 737 be adopted?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record. On this issue there are 71 voting 'yes' and 82 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present' and the Amendment is declared lost. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #6, Giglio. Amends House Bill 737 on page one and so forth."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Giglio on Amendment #6."

"Now? Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, what this Amendment does, Amendment #6, it puts a cap on the amount of money that is distributed in the Illinois Transit Fund that is allowed to run the number one, the rail... inner-city rail passenger service; two, the Division of Public Transportation Operations maximum; and number three, the Bureau of Railroads in IDOT. It's, I guess, it's a cap on the amount of money so too much money is not used for say political patronage too overload the Illinois Transit Fund."

"Is there any discussion on the Gentleman's Amendment? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I would like to rise to oppose Amendment #6. The net effect of Amendment #6 is to too severely constrain the administers of the Illinois Transit Fund as to how the money should be spent for designated purposes. It could particularly impact very 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 heavily on Amtrak where the amount that it is limited to was four-tenths of a percent on inner-city rail passenger service which is, of course, Amtrak. The administrators of the fund ought to have the flexibility to make the decisions necessary for the proper allocation of the funds. Amendment #6 takes away that ability and it for those reasons I rise to oppose Amendment #6."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Giglio, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, I'm surprised at the Gentleman's remarks. All this time we heard about the RTA and how it's overloaded with patronage and how it's overloaded with management and how much money we spend and the CTA for that matter. Here I've got an Amendment to put a cap on how much money has to be spent from the operation and the amount of monies to run it and now the other side of the aisle wants to vote it down. All I can do is ask for yoursupport if you agree with me."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #6 to House Bill 737 be adopted?'. All in favar will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this issue there are 78 voting 'yes', 85 voting 'no', none voting 'present' and this Amendment is declared lost. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #7, Giglio. Amends House Bill 737 on page two and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Giglio, on Amendment #7."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Amendment follows the previous Amendment and it would put a cap on the Department of Revenue for the same purpose for the administrative expenses. I would assume that the 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Majority Leader on the other side of the aisle will probably make the same speech."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"I guess maybe they're not organized over there, Mr. Speaker. This is a good Amendment. Like I say, the other one was for the rail service, Department of Transportation. This is for the Department of Revenue and we want to put a cap on it so it's not overloaded with administrative personnel. And that's what this Amendment does."

"Yes, Representative Telcser."

"First of all, Mr. Speaker, we adopted Amendment #1 on House Bill 737 which deleted line 5. I think, therefore; that Amendment #7, first of all, would not be correct. If, in the Parliamentarian's opinion, it is correct, I would like to speak against the Amendment."

"Parliamentarian tells me the Amendment's out of order, Representative. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #8, Margaret Smith. Amends House Bill 737 on page one, line 25 and so forth."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Smith on Amendment #8"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Amendment is a technical Amendment. It seeks to replace RTA references with TFA. References to the RTA were erroneously retained in the Bill. And so I'm asking the Sponsor if he will please approve."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, the Lady is correct. It's a technical Amendment. I appreciate her taking the time out to look over the Bill and to offer an Amendment. I'm delighted to take it. Thank you for your input."

"Thank you." 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #8 to House Bill 737 be adopted?'. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed by saying 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #9, Margaret Smith. Amends House Bill 737 on page three, line 25 and so forth."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Smith."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Amendment changes references to gross receipts tax to be read as petroleum products revenue. I hope the Sponsor will be kind enough to approve this."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, I'll need about ten seconds to look over the Amendment. We haven't really looked at it yet. Can you just hang on one minute?"

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, as I understand the Amendment, while it is technical in nature and doesn't make any substantive change, what I believe the net effect of the Amendment is is to change the name of the fund from the gross receipts tax fund to the petroleum products revenue tax fund. That really is not a substantive change, but however; if we do change the title or the name of the fund in 737, that would necessitate the change in every other Bill. I think that would create a situation where we would have to file more Amendments without really doing anything of any substantive nature. Simply in an effort to stay away from more confusing set circumstances. I would rise to oppose the Amendment or ask the Lady to withdraw it. If you want put it on in the Senate if these Bills get there or have the Senate Sponsor do it all in the Committee in the Senate or on the Senate floor, but we've gone an awful long way with this series of Bills and I think now 45  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 changing the name of the fund which has no substantive change really is not too productive. Therefore, I rise to oppose Amendment #9."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Smith."

"Mr. Speaker and to Mr. Telcser, I merely wanted to clarify the reference for your benefit and that's why I spoke in term of replacing gross receipt tax to petroleum products revenue."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I'd just like to point out to the distinguished Majority Leader who is right now on the telephone that House Bill 741 is the... creates the Petroleum Products Revenue Tax Act and it seems to me that although the nature of the tax is a gross receipts tax as opposed to a occupation or use tax that the Bill that creates the tax in fact establishes the Petroleum Products Revenue Tax Act and so this Amendment, I think, is indeed clarifying."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Representative, I don't believe you're correct. The Bill creates the Petroleum Products Revenue Tax Act, yes it does. But the fund to which the money is put in and transferred from is called the Gross Receipts Tax Fund and Amendment #9 changes the name of the fund in House Bill 737 and it doesn't do so in 741 and other Bills, therefore; the net effect wouldbe you would never be able to get any money out of the fund in order to make use of it. You're correct, 741 in its synopsis creates a Petroleum Products Tax Act. The fund, however; is called a Gross Receipts Tax Fund."

"Lady from Cook, Representative Smith."

"Mr. Speaker and to Mr. Telcser, we can make other Amendments and clarify that for you, okay? Thank you, 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 sir."

"Did you wish to withdraw your Amendment, Representative Smith?"

"No, we wish to move the adoption of this if possible."

"I didn't understand that."

"Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #9 to House Bill 737 be adopted?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 83 voting 'yes', 78 voting 'no', and 1 voting 'present' and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments."

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. House... You want to leave it on Second Reading, Representative? Leave House Bill 737 on Second Reading, Mr. Clerk. It has been read a second time. House Bill 738, Representative Telcser."

"House Bill 738 has been read a second time previously."

"Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #7, Zwick. Amends House Bill 738 on page ten, line ten and so forth."

"Amendment #1... Amendment #7 to House Bill 738 has not been printed and distributed. Take the Bill out of the record, Mr. Clerk. House Bill 739, Representative Telcser."

"House Bill 739 has been read a second time previously."

"Further Amendments."

"Amendment #2, McClain. Amends House Bill 739 on page four and so forth."

"Gentleman from Adams, Representative McClain, on 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Amendment #2."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is an Amendment which would designate the series A bonds that the Governor wishes to authorize, and if you recall, the Governor has requested us in his transportation program 400 million dollars in new series A bonds. What this Amendment would do is it would designate 250 million of that 400 million for the bottom 96 counties and 150 million to the up or the northeastern six counties. Now I'd like to explain why this is important, especially for districts two through nine but also for the rest of district one which I'm talking about equity, the last bonding program that we had district one received, which is basically a six county area, district one received half of the bonds and the bottom 96 counties received the other half. The bonding authorization prior to that Chicago received 50 million, Chicago Metropolitan area received 50 million and almost the other 101 counties received 50 million. There is now an inbalance on the unobligated series A bonds. The six county area has about 140 some million dollars in series A bonds unobligated and the bottom 96 counties has an unobligated amount of a little over 40 million. What this would do, which is basically the concensus of the Democratic Task Force is that this would equalize the unobligated amount of series A bonds. District one would now have approximately 300 million dollars in unobligated series A bonds and downstate, the bottom 96 counties would have an unobligated amount of series A bonds of about 300 million dollars. So in equity, this provides downstate with the same amount of unobligated amounts as compared to district one. I would stress with you that series A bonds in the Governor's program are non-designated. All 400 million can go in any 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 part of the district. All this does is equalize the unobligated amount and in equity in a concensus from our Democratic Task Force this is fair and I'd ask for the adoption of Amendment #2 to 739."

Speaker Ryan: "Is there any discussion on Amendment #9...Amendment #2? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I'm a little bit confused with Amendment #2 to House Bill 739. As I understand it, yesterday we took... we earmarked 200 million dollars for Route 51 out of the 400 million. And now this Amendment comes along and we're going to give 250 million for the statewide.. the county statewide out of the six county region. Therefore,... Therefore, out of the 250 that Representative McClain is talking about in his Amendment, 200 goes for Route 51 leaving only 50 million for the rest of the counties. That's okay by me if that's what the Gentleman wants to do, so I'll vote for his Amendment if he wants. He's a downstate leader. He ought to know what downstate counties want."

Speaker Ryan: "Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Ewell."

"If I understand this correctly, the downstate has spent the money allocated them a little faster than Cook County so far. Is that correct? I mean unobligated bonds means that they've been provided money per formula and one area has just been able to get more construction and roads, etcettera going than the other area so they've already obligated their money. Is that correct?"

"No, Mr. Ewell, what happened was that Chicago and the Chicagto Metropolitan area was a little over one county were able to take 66 and two-thirds of the bonds one time so there's an unequitable or an inequitable amount of money 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 going to the district one and not to the bottom 96 counties. So it has nothing to do with obligation of bonds, it's a matter of that the Governor has designated a disproportionent share of bonds for district one than for the rest of the state."

"Well, when they made the original allocation, your district did get the lions share of the bond money though. Is that correct? The other 96 counties."

"No, Chicago and Chicago Metropolitan area received 66 and two-thirds and approximately the other 101 counties received 33 and a third."

"Is this going to be a permanent formula?"

"No. It's just to make everything even this time so we all have the same proportionent share of unobligated sums."

"I don't mind being gotten. You know as they say sometimes in this business it's not how much you get but it's how often you get it. I'm checking on you fellows that's all. If it's alright with everybody else, it's alright with me."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Henry."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative McClain, the... my figures show that Cook County has 46% of the population is in Cook County. Could you explain to me how then downstate will get more than 50% of the money?"

"Because... Mr. Henry, what happened was that the last two agreements that were cut between Chicago and the Governor fair better for the Chicago Metropolitan area than downstate. And all we're trying to do with this agreement which is a concensus of the Democratic Task Force was that that should be equalized so that downstate has the same sum 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 of unobligated sum as district one."

"Well, who will pay this money back?"

"Excuse me?"

"Who will be responsible to return the funds that have been floating on the bonds? Who will return the money?"

"We do that from... It's the first amount paid from from the road fund."

"How much will Cook County have to pay back?"

"I don't know. I think this year the bond or the debt pay-off is about 87 million dollars off the road fund."

"How much will Cook County... of that fund, how much will Cook County have to repay?"

"Usually Cook County pays about 40 to 42% of the dollars."

"We have 46% of the population to be paying back 42 to 48% of the interest then Cook County again, Mr. Speaker if I may addres the Bill, again Cook County's being shafted. I will have to go along with my colleague, Ray. If everybody else wants to go along with this, then I guess I have no other reason but to follow the ship. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I just had the figures from the Department of Rev... of Highways yesterday on the motor fuel tax. I know that the last speaker and others keep saying about how much they pay and how much they get back. Well, I'll tell you now the figures show that district one gets 60% of the motor fuel tax in the whole state. In addition to that, I would... if you would here some of these people talk you would think they never drove outside of district one. Well, I wouldbet even the last speaker drives more on highways outside of district one than he drives in district one. The highways in the 51  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 State of Illinois are for everybody and certainly the people of Chicago. It goes right by my house on state highways that we're helping pay for. So when you're driving outside of the City of Chicago just remember that those roads are yours and you're helping pay for them and helping ride on them."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Levin."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman of the House, I represent Chicago but I am urging the adoption of Amendment #2. The Amendment that Representative..."

"Just a minute, Representative. Alright. Let's be in order here. Be in your seats if you will, please. Proceed, Representative."

"As I indicated, my district totally lies with the City of Chicago and yet I am urging the adoption of Representative McClain's Amendment #2. This Amendment is a part of the package which was put together by the Democratic Task Force in order to make this set of Bills appealable not only to the residents of the six county area but to downstate as well. We hear that there is very little support for the Governor's package downstate among Democrats or Republicans. The approach we are taking on this side of the aisle is to provide an alternative that everybody will like, that everybody can vote for. They have something for downstate as well as for the six county area. This is a fair proposal. It is a fair allocation of the road money. There will be other Amendments and this is the first of the series and I urge the adoption of Amendment #2."

"The Gentleman from Will, Representative Davis."

"Thank you Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Asfar as parochial interest of my own constituency is concerned, the collar counties have been the armpit of Illinois as far as road construction is concerned for the 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 last few years. I don't think that's particularly going to change, but I look around at the various transit programs over the last few years that have beenpassed and I realize that our downstate brothers have been even worse put upon by the promises that have come again and again and again to them and that they have not succeeded in realizing the fruition of their dreams. I'm going to support this Amendment. I think it's a particularly good idea to identify if we pass bonds, which I think is a bad idea, but if we do vote for this package to identify that our downstate brother and the other 96 counties in Illinois do identify the amount of bonding that's available to them. I, for one, intend to join hands with my downstate colleagues and vote for this Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino."

"Thank you Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen. I ,too, stand in support of this Amendment. To all my downstate colleagues on both sides of the aisle, if we are ever going to get a provision on a Bill, this is what you want. We get the lions share of this proposal. I guess it's somewhat akin to building your own scaffold of which we'll all hang, but it is a good Amendment and I recommend that all downstaters are on green and I recommend and thank Representative Davis for his additional support. We appreciate it. It's a good Amendment."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hoffman."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I'm not shocked that Representative McClain would introduce an Amendment which provides for the division of the bonds to the disfavor of those of us who live in Cook, DuPage, Kane, Lake, McHenry 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 and Will. I am shocked, however; I am shocked and somewhat, and somewhat chagrined that Representative Davis would have the temerity and the audacity, if you will, to stand up and support this abominable Amendment. Ladies and Gentlemen, Ladies and Gentlemen of this august Body, I must tell you in all sincerity that this Amendment does a disservice not only to those of us who live in Cook, DuPage, Kane, Lake, McHenry and Will, Mr. Davis, but it really does a disservice to all of the people of the State of Illinois because it isn't really an honest effort. It is an effort, it is an effort to take advantage, to take advantage of a certain segment of our population which happens to reside in the northeast section of this great state. And so, for that reason, Ladies and Gentlemen, I rise in opposition to this Amendment which is proposed by my good friend, Representative McClain, who is representing his people better than he should. And for that reason, I would ask all of us to rise together and oppose Amendment #2 to House Bill 739."

"The Gentleman from Effingham, Representative Brummer."

"I don't know if this has anything to do with April Fool's Day, but I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman from Adams, Representative McClain, to close."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd like to thank Mr. Hoffman for those kind comments. Would you like to be speaker at my next fund raiser, Gene? Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, first of all, our Amendment would delete Mr. Giorgi's Amendment. All we designate is that 250 of the 400 million dollars worth of bonds will go to the bottom 96 counties and 150 million to district one which is the six county area. It 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 equalizes the amount of unobligated bonds for the wholeState of Illinois. It does not discriminate. It does not make any political deals. It doesn't deal with any of those kind of discretionary things that the Governor and IDOT would prefer. What it does is finally equalize downstate with upstate. It's a non-political issue. It should cut across political lines, downstaters on both sides of the aisle and indeed I would suggest the people in the six county area ought to also support it because it's equal and fair and equity persists and I'd ask for the adoption of Amendment #2."

"Question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 to House Bill 739 be adopted?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Hallock, to explain his vote."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I find it ironic that Representative Giorgi's very good friend and Representative Giorgi can't be here this evening would introduce an Amendment which would, in effect, delete what Representative Giorgi tried to do last night for all of Highway 51 corridor. For those of you along the 51 corridor, you should know that this, in effect, would delete what we did last which was put in 200 million dollars for 51. So I would urge all those who care about the 51 issue to vote no on this Amendment." Speaker

"Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan."

"Question of Mr. Hallock. Are you a good friend of Mr. Giorgi? If you are, tell us so we can tell him."

"The Gentleman from Robbins, from Wayne, Representative Robbins."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentleman of the House, I want you to know that this is a very good Bill. As we put 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 that 100...as we fill that tractor up with that 100 gallon diesel which costs me an extra six dollars so that I could help pay the tax on this Bill and pay the interest on these bonds, I will enjoy driving across the fields very much. I'm glad they will be paved so we can't raise anything in them."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Representative Giorgi has at least one good friend here tonight. He's voting him."

"Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from Bond, Representative Slape."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To explain my vote I'm going to vote 'yes' because by Minority Leader or Assistant Minority Leader says this will give southern Illinois a lion's share and of course I'm always in favor of that . The only thing that's unfortunate is we know the Senate is going to tear this Amendment completely off the Bill. Thank you."

"For what purpose does the Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative, Hallock arise?"

"I would just like to respond to Representative Madigan's question before. Zeke indicated before he took off that he couldn't be here this evening and knew how the Democrats operated. They might want to remove his Amendment from last night so we ask you to respond on his behalf to try to keep it in there. Unfortunately, there isn't enough support on that side of the aisle to keep this in there."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record. On this issue there 100 voting 'aye', 49 voting 'no' and 6 voting 'present' and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #3, Bowman, amends House Bill 739 on page one and so forth." 56  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I offer Floor Amendment #3 to do something which I'm sure the Governor had intended to do although it is not in the Bill in its original form. The Governor made a major point in his address to us that interim financing of about $200,000,000 was absolutely critical and he stressed that, absolutely critical to the successful financing venture in the long term. He said without that amount of money the whole thing would collapse. And he was very plain about that. He indicated that this money would be saved in the financial market place. However, when the Committee of the Whole House met and we heard witnesses, dozens of witnesses come from all over the state to comment on this legislation, we did not hear one word from the financial community. Not one word. Not one banker, not one financier came down here to speak to us. This raises in me a great concern that the entire project may be built on sand. Amendment #3 guarantees that the state will have the authorization to float $200,000,000 worth of bonds for the purpose of providing interim financing to be paid back by the new finance authority out of its new receipts. Amendment #3, in my opinion, is critical to the successful culmination of this financing package. I urge its adoption."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, sometimes Amendments are offered by sincere Sponsors, as I know the Sponsor the this Amendment is, but frequently because of the environment and the politics and the constituency to whom some of us work with we sometimes don't recognize how devastating we may be in our efforts to try and solve a problem. And very often we wind up with a worse situation 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 than we had when we began. Let me first of all point out the Gentleman does not have in his Amendment whether or not these would be Series A or Series B bonds. If he intends Series A bonds then he is taking away from the state $200,000,000 worth of Series A bonds which are bonds that are used for road construction and road work may very well be the bonds used for 51, may very well be the bonds which Representative McClain has in mind for his area, and to use that bond money, put the full faith in credit to the state behind those bonds and use the money for operating expenses. Now clearly, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, it is imprudent in the very least to issue bonds for operating expenses. That in the financial community, in my opinion, is an act of fiscal irresponsibility and that's what I believe the Gentleman is tripping into with Amendment #3. Additionally, Series B bonds are bonds issued for mass transportation to acquire new equipment, to acquire modern cars, to upgrade the safety of the systems upon which we ride. The Gentleman may inadvertently be taking away from the riders from Illinois the ability to upgrade the safety of the systems which they use. But beside them, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, if we were not creating a problem with either Series A bonds or B bonds clearly, clearly, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, there isn't a Member in this chamber who ought to unknowingly vote for Amendment #3 without recognizing the fact that we'd be using bond financing for operating expenses. The Governor had suggested interim financing notes. That is a completely different type of debt instrument. That's a debt instrument that has a rational for financing operating expenses much like tax anticipation warrants. A type of paper that's issued for operating expenses. Bond finances should be for capital improvements 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 so there's some substance behind the bonds. This Amendment would put the state in a position of using bond financing and I don't whether know A or B for operating expenses. A very, very, very dangerous course upon which to embark in Illinois. Please vote 'no'."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan."

"Question of the Sponsor, Mr. Speaker."

"He indicates he'll yield."

"Mr. Bowman, which bonds are these, A or B?"

"Mr. Bowman."

"Representative Madigan, it is not specified in the Amendment whether they are A or B. In fact, they are neither. These would be bonds that are full faith and credit bonds of the state. The authorization is in addition to any other bond authorization provided for any other projects so the Majority Leader is incorrect when he says that this would be money taken away from Series A or taken away from Series B. He is absolutely incorrect."

"Mr. Speaker, may I address the Amendment? Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman of the House, I rise in support of the Gentleman's Amendment. Mr. Bowman's Amendment goes directly through a major flaw in the Governor's program. The Governor at the time of his speech in explanation of his tax increase stated that there would be an additional borrowing authority in the nature of a bridge loan. What he failed to do was to explain exactly who would loan the money for that purpose. He implied that part of the loan would come from the state Treasury however, the Treasurer of the state immediately refuted the Governor's alleged ability of the state to finance this loan. Mr. Bowman's Amendment is well taken, it addresses a major flaw in the Governor's program. Furthermore, we all know that if there is a problem regarding the credit rating of the state or 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 the ability for these loans to be repaid then nobody will buy the notes or the bonds whatever it may be. This is a good Amendment. It will make the entire package more palatable and I recommend your 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman from Bond, Representative Slape."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I'd like to take this opportunity to remind the Members of this House that during the last Saturday Session of the Committee of the Whole that the Director of the Bureau of the Budget was here and he told this Body that there was no first call to repay the $200,000,000 loan or financial bridge that would be established for the transitional period to the new transit district in the present legislation. I think what the Representative has done here is he has addressed that problem. He has brought that problem to light and he's going to guarantee the State of Illinois that this $200,000,000 so-called transition financial bridge will indeed be paid back to the State of Illinois and for that reason I would urge support for this Amendment. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Hardin, Representative Winchester."

"Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"I don't know if this has been asked, Representative Bowman, but if it was I didn't hear it. Is this interest-free loans? In other words, if the state makes this loan is there any interest rates involved for the loan of the money?"

"Not at all."

"Okay, then I'd like to raise a comment to the Bill. In 1973 or 1974 when we set up the RTA Emergency Loan Act or something similar to that there was a loan of 60  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 $34,000,000 made to the RTA or the CTA with the understanding that this money would be paid back to the state coffers by 1980. At least four times during that period legislation was sponsored by that side of the aisle to get hat loan forgiven. We fought it off and we won. Still a year later after that money was owed back to the State of Illinois the $34,000,000 has not been paid. What assurance is do we have if we support this legislation that the $200,000,000 would be returned back to the State of Illinois?"

"Representative Winchester. Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker."

"Yes, Mr. Bowman."

"Could we have a little order and also a little more volume?"

"Alright the chamber will come to order. Mr. Doorkeeper, clear the aisle, put the Members in their seats. Proceed, Mr. Bowman."

"In response, Representative Winchester, I would like to point out that this merely an authorization. It is a backup. It does not require the state to make a loan to the new Transit Finance Authority. There is no requirement that the loan be made. It is a backup if it is necessary to have such a loan."

"Well, okay I understand what your intent is but I'm worried that because somewhere down the line we would be making the $200,000,000 loan and I know for sure in dealing with the RTA or the TFA or whatever it is, we're not going to be able to get our $200,000,000 back, Representative Bowman."

"Representative Winchester, the reason that the state has not been able to recoup the original loan is because the financing of the original RTA was never on solid ground. We were entering into the unknown at the time the RTA was 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 originally established. We had never tried to establish a transit authority of that magnitude in the state before. We now have experience, we know what the financial statistics are and let me tell you, we're going to be laboring here hour after hour and day after day to put a new package in place. Our work will be in vain if we cannot provide interim financing. Unless something like this is in the legislation as a backup our work, the hours will be down the drain and we'll be right back here in Springfield right back during the middle of the summertime to provide something to get the trains running again."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if you might again emphasize the need for order because this is a very important Amendment."

"The House will be in order and the Members will be in their seats."

"Now, what this package invisions. The entire package some people on this side of the aisle have quarreled with. Some people don't like the idea of imposing a tax and letting that tax be spent for mass transportation. And I can understand why some people oppose that. What this particular Amendment does is much worse. Much more pernicious and if you oppose the idea of the package you certainly ought to oppose the idea of the Amendment. What this Amendment does is to direct a straight line to the State Treasury to have us issue bonds and give away money with no assurance of repayment, no assurance whatsoever of repayment and no assurance of revenue to pay off those bonds to the CTA. That's the sole purpose of the Amendment. A straight out, flat away gift that's a liability of the entire State of Illinois is an obligation 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 on the full faith and credit of the entire state and in fact, in the worst situation this can come home to roost to be a lien against every downstate farmer's farm. That's what Mr. Bowman proposes. That's why this Amendment ought to be rejected even by those people who oppose the entire project, the entire package. This Amendment represents something far more revolutionary than even the Governor had proposed granting to the CTA. I would strongly urge rejection of this Amendment even if you don't like the package in general."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved the previous question. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all those opposed 'no' and the Motion carries. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman to conclude."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would just like to leave you with a couple of thoughts. If you think the big banks and the people with money are lining up to buy these notes, the Transit Finance Authority notes, you are sadly mistaken. We will labor in vain if we are unable to find a source of interim financing. We will labor in vain if we leave this to the major banks and financial institutions in this state. This Amendment will guarantee that our labors will not be in vain. It is a permissive Amendment. It does not require the loan to be made and I urge that this Amendment be adopted. I can only respond to the Gentleman from DeWitt and others who feel that downstate is somehow being taken advantage of. I'd like to point out that the Bill itself provides many millions of dollars for downstate roads. Downstate is already very well provided for. Unless this 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Amendment goes on, our labors for mass transit will be in vain. I urge adoption."

"The question is, shall Amendment #3 to House Bill 739 be adopted. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Daniels, to explain his vote."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, a gift to the city of Chicago, a gift to a most corrupt, inefficient organization of CTA and any downstater that could support such a gift, I don't think really understands the consequences. I think they do by the vote on the board so I don't think we have to say anymore."

"The Gentleman from Wayne, Representative Robbins to explain his vote."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment #1 earmarks four hundred million, two hundred million of it for Route 51. Amendment #2 does not say this is the same four hundred million. It says it is a new bonding authority of four hundred million. Amendment #3 is another two hundred million and I thank you, George, for recognizing me to explain my vote and I will be proud to join the rest and vote 'no' on these bonds and taxes that are being put on the people."

"The Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative Polk."

"Mr. Speaker, point out in the olds days there was a time when you could turn the gallery and point to a Gentleman, a distinguished looking Gentleman, and say that he was the Mayor of Henry. Representative Ozella, Representative Ackerman and Representative Koehler happen to have in the gallery to my extreme left the Mayor of Henry, Illinois, Phil Smith and they're proud to have him here. I'm sorry I can't introduce him." 64  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"It's against the rules, Representative. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record. On this issue there are 44 voting 'yes', 111 voting 'no', none voting 'present' and the Amendment is lost. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #4, Chapman, amends House Bill 739 on page one, line ten and so forth."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Chapman."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, transportation goes further than simply buses and roads. Air transportation is an important element of the transportation system in our state. Palwaukee Airport in northwest suburban area is in great danger right now. A large airport, private airport and if we are going to maintain a healthy transportation system we must give attention to the needs of Palwaukee. I ask for this increase."

"Is there any discussion. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, Representative Ebbesen said this Amendment should not fly and he's right, it shouldn't. The Lady mentions Palwaukee Airport, it's an airport which I'm quite familiar with but I want to remind the Members of the House, Mr. Speaker, that when this Act was originally passed into law aviation received $100,000,000 for aviation purposes. Now, in all these years they've only spent $10,000,000 of the hundred million which they were given. They still have $90,000,000 left which has been around now for some six or eight years. I really can't quite understand why the Sponsor of this Amendment wants to give to the aviation field another $100,000,000 when they've only spent 10% of what they were authorized to spend some years ago. Additionally, Mr. Speaker and Members of the 65  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 House, aviation and aviation functions clearly are not in a crisis situation as we have with mass transportation on the ground or highway construction or repair. So, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I urge a 'no' vote on Amendment #4."

"Further discussion. The Gentleman from Hardin, Representative Winchester."

"Would the Lady yield for a question?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative, in the area of aviation to my knowledge, that is the only mode of transportation outside of maybe rails that does not pay a seven and a half cent gas tax for gas...well they pay a seven and a half gas tax for gasoline but it's funded back. Would you support legislation more less stating that the seven and a half cent gas tax collected on aviation would not be returned back to aviation people but would be used for the purpose of improving aviation?"

"Sir, I want to help the fifty private airports in our state, not hurt them. And with the cuts that airports are experiencing because of the situation in Washington the state is going to have to give alot of additional attention to this matter."

"Well, instead of increasing our bond authorization for aviation purposes why don't we just keep the seven and a half cents per gallon? Why return it back to aviation? Why not keep it and earmark it for aviation purposes? Why go out and sell bonds and pay interest?"

"If that is legislation that you favor I'd suggest you introduce such a Bill, sir."

"Is this Amendment for the purpose of buying Midway Airport?"

"This would help the fifty airports in our state by 66  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 increasing the total bond authorization by five hundred million not four hundred million. My particular interest is in Palwaukee which is a, one of the largest private airports in the state..."

"Well, just a comment to the Bill..."

"I understand it helps the Williamson County airport too."

"I don't think so. This is probably the intent is good but until we address ourselves to the fact that the seven and a half cent gas tax collected and is rebated returned back to those who participate in aviation then we should not be supporting increases and bond authorizations. We should be addressing ourselves to doing something about the seven and a half cent gas tax, keeping the money, earmarking it for aviation. Thank you."

"The Gentlman from Cook, Representative Lechowicz. Representative Lechowicz, do you seek recognition?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, I stand in support of Amendment #4 and I want to tell the distinguished Majority Leader why, and also my good friend from Rosiclare because I know he's interested in the airports in Marion, Illinois and the State of Illinois was also supposed to have a new airport facility in the St. Louis Metropolitan area. Unfortunately, the Federal Government has allocated those funds to an adjoining state. In 1972 and '73 when we worked upon a road program in this state the bonding consisted in three areas and one of the area was also for airport facilities. That's why the Lady's asking for an additional $100,000,000 for downstate airport facilities and anyone from the Metropolitan area knows the sad situation that Palwaukee airport is in, knows the sad situation that Midway airport is in and in turn the situation where we've got very strong environmental 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 protection conditions and the expansion of any airports. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is not, any facetious Amendment. It's an important Amendment and you should support it because it's part of a package that has been done in the past and in turn was not addressed in the Governor's presentation. For that reason the Lady has offered this Amendment in good faith and deserves your support."

"The Gentleman from Bond, Representative Watson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to call for the previous question."

"That won't be necessary. Representative Chapman to close."

"Mr. Speaker, one more time, some of my friends on the other side of the aisle are giving lip service to the private sector. We continue to say that we want to build the private sector, that we're concerned with the economic condition of the state, that we are concerned with the vitality economically of the state. But if we do not come the aid of our private airports we'll find that they will be closed down. Many, many have closed down in recent years. The effect will be that government will be taking over the operation of more and more airports. Let's work to build the economic vitality of the state by providing an additional $100,000,000 bond authorization for capital assistance to private airports in our state."

"The question is, shall Amendment #4 to House Bill 739 be adopted. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 57 voting 'yes', 87 voting 'no' and 7 voting 'present' and the Amendment fails. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #5, Bowman, amends House Bill 739 68  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 on page.."

"....Representative Bowman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #5 references the transportation Series B section of the statute, the existing statute. And recognizes the possibility that some counties may choose to opt out the RTA or the new transit finance agency. Amendment #5 provides that if those counties opt out that they shall not be the recipients of transportation Series B bond sales which are to be used for mass transit purposes. The net effect of Amendment #5 is to restrict the use of mass transit bonds in the six county region for those counties that remain part of an integrated transit system. I urge it's adoption."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I rise to oppose Amendment #5 and I stand in defense particularly of my collar county colleagues. Amendment #5, I think, turns out to be a punishment for collar counties who chose to opt out of the district under the provisions of this package of Bills. A county may opt out but there still maybe some Members within the county who are part of a downstate transit district or a county may come back in at a later day or may on its own form a mass transit district. In any of these events those people in the collar counties would still be in need of capital funds so they can make expenditures for the transportation activities which they may want to be involved in after they opt out of the current system. Amendment #5 turns out to be a disincentive for collar counties. And although I don't believe it's the intent of the Sponsor, this could wind up preventing the collar counties from receiving matching 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 federal funds so that they can get some capital improvements and some expenditures for safety in mass transportation activities that they may be engaging on their own. Mr. Speaker, Amendment #5 may be well intentioned but it simply does not do the job and, in fact, it could hurt very severely collar counties in future years."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Will, Representative Davis."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The Majority Leader is absolutely right."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Well, I am surprised at the Majority Leader. He very often gets up on the floor of the House and says there is no such thing as a free lunch. How often have I heard him say, 'There is no such thing as a free lunch'? And here he is defending the free lunch. You can't have it both ways. Either you're going to be in the transportation area or you're not and it seems to me that the intent of the legislation, when it was originally enacted, to establish the Series B bonds and to allocate 180 million of those bonds for a six county region was predicated upon the assumption that that six county region would be an integrated transportation service unit. So there he goes trying to urge that they have it both ways when in fact we should keep the intent of the original legislation and provide the transit financing bonds for members of an integrated transportation service region. Now, if a county wants to be out of the system that's fine but if the county wants of the system let them be out of the whole system, not just part of the system. Don't let them get goodies 70  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 with one hand while they're opting out with the other. This particular Amendment is true to the philosophy of the original transportation Series B bond legislation. I urge its adoption."

"The question is, shall Amendment #5 to House Bill 739 be adopted. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record. On this issue there are 63 voting 'yes', 84 voting 'no' and none voting 'present' and Amendment is lost. Further Amendments."

"No further Amendments."

"House Bill 740, Representative Telcser."

"House Bill 740 has been read a second time previously."

"Any Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"House Bill 741, Representative Telcser. For what purpose does the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton, seek recognition?"

"Mr. Speaker, I'm just curious. On 740 we did adopt some Amendments, is that correct? On the House floor?"

"Mr. Clerk, would you explain to the Gentleman what the status of the Bill is?"

"Amendment #1 was adopted previously. Amendment #2 was offered and withdrawn."

"Thank you."

"House Bill 741, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, does the Clerk's record show the Motion to reconsider on Amendment #1?"

"Is there a Motion, Mr. Clerk, on Amendment #1? Is that on House Bill 740 are you talking about, Representative Madigan?" 71  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"I thought there was a Motion to reconsider which was adopted on that Amendment #1."

"On House Bill 740?"

"Yes. Wasn't there?"

"What Bill are you talking about?"

"740."

"Mr. Clerk."

"I have no record of a Motion being filed to reconsider Amendment #1."

"House Bill 741."

"House Bill..."

"Just a minute, Mr. Clerk. Representative Ropp, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, did you say that 740 went to Third Reading or .."

"No, I didn't say that, Representative."

"I know you didn't. Are you tonight? I thought this afternoon you indicated that tonight would be the night."

"Representative Madigan has requested that I hold all of these Bills on the order of Second Reading until the end of today."

"Okay, in other words before midnight that will go to Third Reading if Mr. Madigan wants you to do that."

"House Bill 741. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 741 has been read a second time previously. Amendment #1, Ryan-Telcser, amends House Bill 741 as amended."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, can we take this out of the record?"

"Out of the record. House Bill 742."

"House Bill 742 was read a second time previously. Amendment #2, Bowman, amends House Bill 742 on page two, line seven and so forth." 72  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman on Amendment #2 to House Bill 742."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I hope everyone likes this Amendment. It's a technical Amendment. Purely technical Amendment. The Bill in its original form refers to standard accounting procedures and that is not the proper term of what generally accepted accounting principles and my Amendment makes that correction. I presume the Sponsor of the Bill has no objection."

"Is there any discussion on the Gentleman's Amendment? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"The Amendment is fine, Mr. Speaker. The Gentleman is correct."

"Further discussion. The question is, shall Amendment #2 to House Bill 742 be adopted. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments."

"No further Amendments."

"House Bill 743, Representative Telcser."

"House Bill 743, was read a second time previously. Amendment #31, Johnson-Wikoff amends House Bill 743 on page 62 and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson, on Amendment #31."

"Mr. Speaker and Members, I think our Amendment is self-explanatory basically.."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Getty."

"Mr. Speaker, in view of the adoption of Amendment #28 I now question whether Amendment #31 is in order."

"You're absolutely correct, Representative. Amendment #31 is out of order. Further Amendments." 73  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Amendment #32, Zwick, amends House Bill 743, page 52 and so forth."

"The Lady from Kane, Representative Zwick."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker I think at this point all I can do is ask if this Amendment is in order."

"No, the Amendment is not in order, Representative."

"Thank you."

"The Amendment is out of order. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Getty."

"I was seeking recognition before. That's all right."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."

"Well, in light of the ruling of the Chair which as it has been consistently is correct I would think that the proper thing to do, and I guess I would so move, would simply move to table Amendments 32 through 69 and save the time of the House."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to the Gentleman's Motion. Your obligation as the presiding officer is to rule on each individual case presented to you."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."

"Well, I guess the Chair can on rule my Motion but if the Majority or the Minority Leader's intention is to keep us here and go through 37 separate Amendments simply to go through them all and have them all ruled out of order when there's an apparent or at least proported crisis in transportation and he wants to waste that amount of time of the House or absolutely zero purpose when it's clear that all these Amendments through 69 are going to be out of order then I guess that's sort of indicative of this to 74  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 this whole process from the other side of the aisle. And I would renew my Motion, Mr. Speaker, that Amendments #32, 33, et al, through 69 be tabled and I would think that any responsible Legislator, I repeat responsible Legislator on this or any other side of the aisle would go along with that Motion."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, the Gentleman from Champaign is absolutely correct and I appeal to the Minority Leader's sense of good judgement. All that would happen is, for the Sponsor of each subsequent Amendment except perhaps one or two will stand up, offer an Amendment. The Speaker will rule that it's out of order and we have to go through that process for perhaps an hour or an hour and a half to keep all of the Members here for no real purpose. Every Member is tired. The hours are long. The crisis is complex. There's nothing to be gained by making the Speaker go through that effort which is meaningless. Really, Representative, I hope you reconsider your comments. Let the Speaker table and rule all the Amendments out of order that are out of order and let's get on to the business. I hoping we can go back to one of the Bills which has twenty some Amendments filed and start on that Bill this evening yet."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, question of Mr. Telcser or Mr. Johnson. Who has rendered the Supreme Court decision that all of these Amendments are out of order?"

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Well, the Gentlemen knows that adoption of an Amendment last night made just about every subsequent Amendment out of order. Now you want to make a cute remark. You're keeping your Members here just as our Members are, 75  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Representative. You're the one whose keeping them for long, extra, hard hours for no real purpose."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."

"Well, I would be happy, as I'm sure Representative Wikoff would, to proceed with Amendment #31 except that the Minority Leader's henchman made the Motion that they were out of order. We didn't raise the question and it seems clear in light of the Chair's ruling and the form of the other Amendments are all going to be out of order. And so I would simply renew my Motion, Mr. Speaker, that Amendments #32 through 69 be tabled and I would ask for a Roll Call vote."

"The Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich, on the Gentleman's Motion."

"I rise in support of Representative Johnson's Motion. The only thing that could result from defeating this Motion is the fact that these Bills will not go to Third Reading tomorrow and you'll find yourself here Saturday. Now, if you want to be here Saturday go ahead and vote against Mr. Johnson's Motion."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Majority Leader said that he knew that some of the Amendments were not technically incorrect. Could he perhaps give us a list of which ones are not?"

"Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, my concern regarding the Gentleman's Motion to render all of these Amendment's out of order on one Motion is that there is an Amendment being prepared in the Reference Bureau at this time to this Bill. And I'm concerned that that Amendment be considered on the Order of 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Second Reading and this Bill remain on the Order of Second Reading until that Amendment arise on the floor. And if I add assurance that the light of the fact that the request is already been filed with the Reference Bureau that the Reference Bureau is preparing the Amendment and if I'm assured that the Bill will be held on the Order of Second Reading for that Amendment that I would exceed to Mr. Johnson's Motion."

"Well, Mr. Madigan, these Bills have been on the Calendar for some time. I indicated earlier that I would hold them until through today at your request. If you're not talking about the Friday or Saturday or Sunday for your Amendment to come up from the Reference Bureau, I'm sure by the time we finish I think there's up to.. How many Amendments on this Bill, Mr. Clerk? Well, there's 89 Amendments so we got to go from 69 to 89 on this Bill and then go back to 741 and handle 25 more. If your Amendment isn't up by then, Representative, it probably isn't worth it anyway."

"Aside from your humor your point is well taken, Mr. Speaker."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman."

"Well, one thing that's wrong with the Motion to table all of these Amendments is that one of them isn't even in order. Now, I don't know why the Democrats are always expected to do the work for the other side of the aisle but this is a Republican Amendment introduced by Representative Stanley. Amendment #59 strikes everything after the enacting clause and starts all over again. I would presume that Representative Stanley would like to take his Amendment and I'm surprised that he's not on his feet right now. So I think it's improper to table all of the Amendments willy nilly without considering the ones that 77  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 are indeed properly in order."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Stanley."

"Hello. Representative Bowman, there's some technical problems with the Amendment and I do wish to table it."

"Withdraw.."

"Well, I'm prepared to ...."

"What's the number of the Amendment, Mr. Stanley. Withdraw Amendment #59. Do you want to restate your Motion, Representative Johnson?"

"Yes, my Motion is, Mr. Speaker, and with a prior apology to Representative Getty. That was inappropriate terminology and I apologize to him. Amendments #32 through 69 excepting Amendment #59, which has been withdrawn, be tableed for the reason that they're out of order."

"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and Amendments 32 through 69 with the exception of 59 are tabled. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #70, amends House Bill 743 on page one, line ten and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Will, Representative Davis."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You catch me in a bit of a loss. My supper just came at 9:15. As I recall Amendment 70, Lee Daniels has volunteered to eat my supper which is fine, Lee. Come and eat it. You're gaining weight anyway. Amendment #70 address the issue of CTA pay your own way. Amendment #70 addresses the issue of continuing to allow the Chicago Transit Authority to, I believe Representative Getty is...."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Getty."

"Mr. Speaker, I would now question whether Amendment #70 is in order."

"Your point is well taken, the Amendment is not in 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 order, Representative Davis. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #71, Braun, amends House Bill 743 on page 27, line 30 and so forth."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Braun, on Amendment #71."

"Mr. Speaker, I believe that this an Amendment that I would like to table."

"Did you ask to withdraw that Amendment, Representative?"

"Yes, sir."

"Withdraw Amendment 71. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #72, O'Brien, amends House Bill 743 as amended."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative O'Brien. On Amendment 72, Representative."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, Amendment #72 reverses Amendment #2 that was previously adopted to House Bill 743. Quite frankly, Mr. Speaker and Members, if you remember Amendment #2 was very controversial Amendment and I have had the opportunity to talk with some people from both the Republican and Democratic staff and from the Department of Transportation. And they have indicated to me that the adoption of Amendment #2 was unconstitutional because the funds that were raised in the Chicago Urban Transportation District were raised for a specific purpose through a referendum and they were for capital improvements and capital improvements only in the Chicago Urban Transportation District area. And for that reason I recommend that we vote in favor of Amendment #72."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins."

"Mr. Speaker, I raise the question of whether Amendment #72 is in order."

"Your point is well taken. The Amendment is out of 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 order. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #73, Ted Meyer, amends House Bill 743 on page 21 and so forth."

"Amendment #73, Representative Meyer, Ted Meyer. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins."

"Mr. Speaker, is Amendment #73 in order?"

"No, it's not. Further Amendments. Amendment 73 is out of order. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #74, Johnson-Tate-Frederick, amends House Bill 743 on page 11 and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."

"Move to table this Amendment."

"How about withdrawing it, Representative."

"I'll withdraw it."

"Withdraw Amendment 74. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #75, Ewing, amends House Bill 743 on page 11 and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing."

"Withdraw that Amendment."

"Amendment #75, withdrawn. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #76, Johnson-Tate-Frederick, amends House Bill 743 on page 11 and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."

"I withdraw Amendment #76."

"Withdraw Amendment #76. Further Amendments."

"Amendment #77, Ewing, amends House Bill 743 on page 40, line 20 and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing."

"Mr. Speaker, would you withdraw that Amendment?" 80  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Withdraw 77. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #78, Huff, amends House Bill 743 on page 26, line 27 and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huff."

"Mr. Speaker, will you withdraw that Amendment?"

"Withdraw #78. Further Amendments."

"Amendment #79, Margaret Smith, amends House Bill 743 on page 11, line 22 and so forth."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Smith."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. This Amendment 79 provides that authority may require grants recipients to provide special reduced zone rated fares for selected short distance routes. I was happy to remove the objection portion of this Bill and so I'm asking for a favorable vote on this."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins."

"Mr. Speaker, I question whether Amendment #79 is in order."

"Out of order. You're absolutely right, Representative. You're Amendment's out of order, Representative Smith. Further Amendments."

"Amendment #80, Conti, amends House Bill 743 on page one, line ten and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Conti."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Section 224 is no longer in the Bill so I move to withdraw."

"Withdraw Amendment #80. Further Amendments."

"Amendment #81, Bowman-Levin, amends House Bill 743 as amended."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #81 imposes certain limits on the 81  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 salaries of the directors and chairman of the new finance authority. Also I think one of the real advantages of this Amendment is that it provides that the authority shall not provide limousines or chauffeurs for the directors or the chairman. I think one of the things that's irritated the people in our area the most is the use of public monies for chauffeur driven limousines for people who are running the mass transportation authority. They should ride the buses just like everybody else. So I urge its adoption. Perhaps Representative Levin would like to add something."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, I think if you'll examine Amendment #81 you'll find it's out of order. Could I have a ruling, please?"

"Your point is well taken, Representative Telcser, the Amendment is out of order. Mr. Bowman."

"Yes, I believe this Amendment is properly drafted because it does not make reference to page and line numbers and I believe it fits in very well with those amended by Amendment #28 and if you rule it out of order I would appreciate the courtesy of explaining why it is out of order."

"Representative, the Parliamentarian tells me that you go from Section 301 to Section 304 and you omit Section 302 and 303. Representative Bowman."

"Yes, the text of the Bill as it stands right now is Section 301, the language if you read, sir, lines two and three of my Amendment says by inserting after 'Section 301' that's in the existing Amendment as offered by Representative Conti the following: 'and .304'. I'm adding to what is already in the Bill. Section 302 and Section 303 are already mentioned in the Bill as amended by 82  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Representative Conti. There's no need for me to reference them further in this Amendment."

"I stand by my ruling, Representative. The Parliamentarian tells me that when you're going to amend the various Sections of a Bill you've got to play out the intervening Section and that's my ruling, Representative Bowman. And your Amendment is out of order. I'll give you... Turn on Mr. Bowman, would you please?"

"Mr. Speaker, I wish to appeal for the ruling of the Chair."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Getty."

"Mr. Speaker, before we get into something like overruling the chair again and that type of Motion I would just like to respectfully, respectfully rather, call to your attention the fact that from time to time we have all types of Amendments, Bills that amend existing legislation. That's all that this is doing. We are not attempting to amend by this Amendment Section 303.02 or 3.03 of the existing Act. This is an existing Act, it's not something new. We're going from Amendment #28 which Representative Conti had amended. 3.02 are not in it. 3.03 are not in it because they weren't amended. This is, #81, is a germane Amendment addressing the same Act. It does not require that the intervening non-amended Sections of the existing Act be set forth. And I would respectfully request that you consider your ruling."

"Say your Amendment, Representative Bowman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We, by Amendment #81..."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huff, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I'm seeking a little edification on what we're doing. Following up on what Representative Getty said.." 83  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Well, Representative, we have..the Amendment is in order and the Gentleman is going to proceed with it."

"Let me pose my question because it does have some bearing on what Representative Bowman's talking about. If, I understand the effect of Amendment #28 which was to strike out everything after the enacting clause, haven't we in effect insist that was existing legislation, haven't we in effect abolished RTA for all intensive purposes?"

"I don't understand your question, Representative."

"Well, I don't understand either. That's why I'm asking you for some clarification, Mr. Speaker. I mean we're just a spear carrier back here in the dark recesses of the House. We don't suppose to have the answers. You know, we can only pose questions. My question was, Mr. Speaker, if the Amendment had the force and the effect of striking the enacting clause haven't we in effect killed existing legislation that bordered on the existence of RTA? Does RTA exist as of today?"

"We didn't strike the enacting clause, Representative."

"Well, what did we do, Mr. Speaker?"

"Everything after the enacting clause."

"Well, everything..let me explain...explain this to me. What was the after the enacting clause of that Section that we were dealing with?"

"I would suggest you read the Bill or talk to one of your staff people, Representative. Not take anymore time of the House. Representative Bowman, on Amendment #81."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment #81 is very simple, very simple. It adds one sentence to the RTA Act as amended by Representative Conti. One sentence and I will read the sentence to you. 84  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 'The Chairman, Directors of the Board, or any officers of the Authority shall not be provided with the use of an automobile or driver by the Authority.' Now this is an Amendment I believe we can all support. The people who run the RTA or the TPA or whatever you want to call it ought to ride the rails like everybody else. And that's exactly what this Amendment does. No more, no less. I urge its adoption. Right."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."

"Periodically I kind of lose track of what's going on. Is this Amendment all of a sudden in rule in order or is it still ruled out of order?"

"It's been ruled in order, Representative."

"Oh, I see. Okay."

"The Gentleman from Will, Representative Van Duyne, do you seek recognition?"

"Thank you, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Really in answer to Representative Huff's question I think, if Representative Conti's Amendment #28 was the one we ended up on last night, all it did was direct, it formed a Board of Directors. Five from the Mayor of the city of Chicago, four from the Cook County and two from the collar counties. That's what he's talking about right now, Doug. It prohibits him from having a furnished car from the expenses of the Board. Representative Huff."

"The Lady from DuPage, Representative Fawell."

"I call for the previous question."

"The Lady has moved the previous question on Amendment #81. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the previous question prevails. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman to close." 85  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to ask my Cosponsor, Representative Levin to close. Would you please call on Representative Levin, my Cosponsor to close."

"Turn on Representative Levin."

"Thank you, Representative Matijevich. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. We seek fiscal prudence not only from the various operating authorities. We've heard from the other side of the aisle. They believe that there's fiscal inimprudence in terms of the waythe CTA suburban buses and commuter railroads are being operated. But what we found out from newspapers is that the same kind of imprudence exists with respect to the administration of the current RTA and the best example of that is what is attempted to be corrected by this Amendment. Why should the chief operating officer of this mass transit district that is attempting to encourage people to ride buses, to ride ..., to ride commuter railroads, be provided with not only an automobile and a parking space for that automobile but also a driver to drive the car. I think this is an Amendment that can be supported by everybody from all parts of the states. And it sends a message that we don't want any bureaucracy wasting money.Particularly a bureaucracy like the RTA. I urge 177 green lights on this Amendment."

"The question is, shall Amendment #81 to House Bill 743 be adopted. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 130 voting 'aye', 10 voting 'no' and four voting 'present' and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments."

"Amendment #82, amends House Bill, Levin, amends 86  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 House Bill 743 as amended."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Levin."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, there is a rumor that the next chairman of the TFA or RTA or whatever it's going to be call is 'George Rainey'. 'George Rainey', as many people know is involved with the Metropolitan Area Planting and Housing Council that recently came out with a report in terms of the RTA. One of the key features of that report was that the RTA is getting involved too much in operations and the way that that is occurring is the way that the salary level is currently structured. Every time a member of the RTA Board attends a meeting, he receives a perdiem of $200. Every time he votes, every time he considers a fare increase, every time he attends a subcommittee meeting, every time he sticks his nose in the operation of the commuter railroads, the suburban buses, or the CTA he is being paid $200. That's pretty good. It's a pretty good incentive and what Mr. 'Rainey' suggested was that the structure of salary should be changed to eliminate that incentive. To discourage these individuals who sit on the RTA or the TFA Board from poking their nose where it doesn't belong. Our Governor's message suggested that we should have a fiscal oversight authority, period. That we should not have a regional transportation entity sticking its nose in day to day operations. Sticking its nose in .... Sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. What this Amendment attempts to do is to take Mr. 'Rainey's' suggestion and put it into legislative form. What it does is it eliminates the current perdiem incentive and provides for a flat salary. It's important that we pay these individuals who are going to be served a reasonable rate of compensation. We want to obtain good quality people but we want them to simple do 87  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 fiscal oversight."

"Just a minute, Representative Levin. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I would question whether this Amendment is in order."

"Your point is well taken, Mr. Collins. The Amendment is not in order. The Amendment is out of order. Further Amendments. The Gentleman from Sangamon, Mr. Kane."

"Mr. Speaker, I think that it's the duty of any Member who challenges a germanness or the in order of an Amendment that at least they should specify under what circumstances it's out of order. If he just says something's out of order and you say it's out of order no one knows what's in order or out of order."

"I'll be happy to explain it to you."

"Well, I think that Mr. Collins ought to explain."

"Amendment #81, we added language that's not added to carry out Section 3.04 in 82. The Amendment is out of order. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #83, Leverenz-Mautino, amends House Bill 743 as amended."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz, on Amendment #83."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Amendment would provide that the provision requiring transportation agencies providing service through purchase of service or grant agreements with the authority to be subject to the jurisdiction of the Auditor General. It simply clarifies that the Auditor General and audits of the authority and the dollars can actually follow through to any operating entity that is doing it by service, purchase of service agreements. I would move for the adoption of the 88  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Amendment. It was adopted as Amendment #12 last evening."

"The Lady from DuPage, Representative Karpiel. Do you seek recognition, Representative Karpiel? Turn her off. Any discussion? The question is, shall Amendment #83 to House Bill 743 be adopted. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #84, Jones, amends House Bill 743 as amended."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Jones."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Amendment should have unanimous support of each and every Member of the House. I recall my very good friend who served here during the last Session, Cal Skinner, always complaining about the tremendous high salary that the chairman of the RTA was making. Amendment #84 will require that the chairman and the Board of Directors serve without compensation. They will only be reimbursed for the expenses that they incur. And the reason why this Amendment is very important that because the RTA or the TFA or whatever you want to call it, we don't want those individuals involved in the operation of transit but only to oversee the finances concerned the RTA region. So it's a very good Amendment. I urge your support and I know my friends on the other side of the aisle, especially those from the collar counties will support this good Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Birkinbine."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think in light of Amendment #81 that was adopted, Amendment #84 is out of order."

"Could you state your point, Mr. Birkinbine?" 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"I think that in light of Amendment #84 that was recently adopted, I'm sorry Amendment #81 that we've already adopted, Amendment #84 is out of order."

"Your point is well taken, the Amendment is out of order. It doesn't play out the language that was adopted in Amendment #81 so the Amendment is out of order. Further Amendments. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Jones."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want you or the Parliamentarian, to explain to this Body why this Amendment is out of order."

"I just explained that, Representative. Do you want another explanation. I just explained it."

"I'd like the explanation that you tell me the reason why one line, one chapter is out of order."

"In Amendment #81 the language in #84 that was adopted in #81 is not carried through in Amendment #84. Representative Jones."

"In other words, Mr. Speaker, you're telling this Body that your colleagues on the other side of the aisle is for paying the chairman $120,000 a year."

"Your Amendment is out of order, Representative Jones. The Gentleman from Sangamon, Representative Kane."

"Mr. Speaker, I think that in the past both yourself and other Speakers have ruled on Amendments being in order, that if two Amendments can be read together and both will work that they are in order, I think that just because one paragraph of new language was added in one Amendment and is not part of the statute now, that both of those Amendments can be read together. That they will both work. That they're not in conflict with each other. That one changes a different part of that Section than the other then I believe that that's the kind of contradiction that is taken 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 care of in Enrolling and Engrossing when it gets down to Third Reading. I think that if your Parliamentarian will look at that and see that the two Amendments are not in conflict and that they can be read together that this Amendment can be ruled in order and we can vote on it either up or down."

"I've made my ruling, Representative Kane. The Amendment's out of order. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #85, O'Brien-Cullerton, amends House Bill 743 as amended."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative O'Brien."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, Amendment #85 is a very simple Amendment it would allow suburban carriers and those local municipal carriers of transportation to be eligible for grants directly from the Federal Government. Many of us realize that the Federal Government, over the past ten years, has emphasized a road construction program and now most of their grant programs will be orientated towards mass transportation and we want to have all of our transportation carriers in the six collar counties eligible for direct grants from the Federal Government. I urge an 'aye' vote on the adoption of this Amendment."

"Is there any discussion on Amendment #85 to House Bill 743? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, what Amendment #85 does is really take away from the TFA any authority they have some type of handle on agencies such as the CTA. It's an Amendment which takes out some rational reason for some kind of fiscal control. The one thing I believe everyone of us is looking for, whether it is in one degree or another. Amendment #85 would just give the CTA the 91  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 money they want to spend with absolutely no controls. I urge the defeat of Amendment #85."

"The question is, shall Amendment #85 to House Bill 743 be adopted. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative O'Brien to explain his vote."

"Mr. Speaker, in explaining my vote which will be a green vote, Mr. Speaker, I think that the Majority Leader and his staff have errored on this. This Amendment will simply allow the collar county transportation authority and Chicago Transportation Authority to receive local grants from the Federal Government which I understand is making mass transportation a priority in the 1980's. This will give you more local control of your transportation funds. And I urge an 'aye' vote."

"Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 58 voting 'yes', 89 voting 'no' and 3 voting 'present' and the Amendment is lost. Further Amendments."

"Floor Amendment #86, Ebbesen, amends House Bill 743 as amended."

"The Gentleman from DeKalb, Representative Ebbesen."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, as I understand it this particular House Bill 743 in its present form addresses itself to the Board and how the Board would be structured and so forth. But no we haven't talked really about the financing and that's what we're here for. And Amendment #86 which I'm sponsoring is very similar to an Amendment that received 70 votes on this House floor last night. And very simply after the effective date of the Act of assuming it's signed into law that the 92  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 authorities show a shall, it'll mandate legislatively to be imposed a public transportation user fee upon the base fares of the public transportation services provided by the authority and by every transportation agency which has entered into a purchase of service agreement with or has received a grant from the authority which fee shall produce a 75% increase in the amount of such fares. Now, last night I talked about a 55%. And again for the sake of those who don't recall, who weren't, on the House floor that our staff says that for every increase, every nickel increase in the fares we generate two million dollars. I'm talking here about the base fare which is 80¢ in Chicago would go to $1.40. Now that's to generate the immediate transfusion of the money necessary which is why we're down here and what this is all about. That would generate $24,000,000 a month, a month. Now, the reason that I feel we have this crisis, it was true in the school system, it's true with this authority, Regional Transit Authority which had the opportunity very recently to increase the fees effective on April 1 but they chose not to. They have passed a unanimous Resolution. The RTA Board that said they should be financing at least 55% out of the fare box. Well here we find ourselves in a crisis. We talk about issuing notes, bonds and paying interest. My rational is that I think that with the votes that now should be put up there with certainly the suburban area Legislators, the collar counties and the downstate. I think the people that use this system and are provided with this service by the very report that was put out by our legislative or our House special Committee, the Ewing Committee, Pete Marwick and Mitchell, it says right here and I quote: "That the fare increases have not kept a.."

"Just a minute, Representative Ebbesen. The 93  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Gentleman from Cook, Representative Getty, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, at this time I would direct your attention to line six and call to your attention that there is there a blank, call your attention then to the prefatory section in lines two through five and respectfully suggest that the Amendment is either defective or not in order in the alternative and that it would leave open a situation where at a later time almost anything could be put in there. I think this would be a very dangerous precedent to permit such a vague Amendment to be adopted."

"The Gentleman from DeKalb, Representative Ebbesen."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. As I read this, and of course ...We amend House Bill 743 as amended by inserting before the last Section the following Section appropriately numbered and renumbering the last Section accordingly and then that Section...Does that refer to the blank? Is that what you're talking about? Mr. Speaker? You're talking about just appropriately numbering and that's all this is addressed to. It's not out of order. I went to great pains to see that it was put that way."

"Representative Ebbesen, the Parliamentarian informs me that we shouldn't take these Amendments with blanks. And you may want to correct that by asking to have leave to amend it on its face and put in the appropriate number."

"I would ask for leave."

"Representative Ebbesen, the Parliamentarian thinks it would be in everybody's best interests if you would redraft this and put the numbers in the proper spot..."

"Mr. Speaker, you know that's an impossibility. All I...Just for a point of clarification. As I read this, I 94  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 think I read...it says that the...'as amended by inserting before the last Section the following Section appropriately numbered and renumbering the last Section accordingly'. Doesn't that clarify what it says below?"

"No, we don't feel that it does, Mr. Ebbesen, and we're going to rule the Amendment out of order. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #87, Deuchler, amends House Bill 743 as amended."

"The Lady from Kane, Representative Deuchler."

"Mr. Speaker, I believe that in view of what just happened to Amendment #86, that my Motion will need to rewritten also, redrawn, since it has the same technical error that was pointed out in number 86 in line..."

"Your point is well taken, Representative. Did you want to withdraw your Amendment?"

"Yes, I will."

"Withdraw Amendment #87. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #88...."

"Just a minute. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bullock, do you seek attention...recognition? Representative Bullock, do you seek recognition? Proceed, Mr. Clerk, on Amendment 88."

"Amendment #88, amends ..."

"Just a minute. The Lady from Cook, Representative Stewart, do you seek recognition? Proceed, Mr. Clerk."

"Amendment #88, Deuchler, amends House Bill 743 as amended."

"The Lady from Kane, Representative Deuchler, on Amendment #88."

"Mr. Speaker, this Amendment also unfortunately contains the same error so I will withdraw it."

"Withdraw 88. Further Amendments?" 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Floor Amendment #89, Ewell, amends House Bill 743 as amended."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Ewell."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, this Amendment does meet the requirements and I think all you have to do is read the Amendment to understand exactly what it says and what it does. The Bill (sic) very simply attempts to require that the purchases of services or grant agreements made to transportation agencies should be allocated by the authority among all the participating transportation agencies on the basis of ridership. It was once said that these are the times that try mens' souls and indeed, they do. When our founding fathers adopted the Constitution, they had many problems and they attempted to solve some of them in manners that we see at this date are no longer adequate or quite proper. What we're saying is that we have a doctrine that we want to adopt in this Amendment which would be one man, one ride. We do not want to discriminate among the riders of the transportation system. We believe that there can be no such thing as a lasting formula which would perpetuate a doctrine of separate but equal and what we're attempting to do is bring this into conformance with the highest principles that I know that all of us stand for. I'd like to point out that Chicagoans pay the highest percentage of any authority, any authority in the nation. We pay not only the most dollars, but we pay the highest percentage by the people who can afford to pay it the least. I'd like to point out that we, in the city of Chicago, in the past have borne the burdens for the entire state. But Chicago was a young city, a viable city with a very adequate tax base. We did not murmur or whimper under our load, but we attempted to comply and we helped you build all of your roads throughout the state. 96  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 We helped the entire state, no matter what their needs were. Now, the city of Chicago is like an elderly parent. We are aging and we are tired. We no longer have the earning capacity or the tax base. I'm suggesting to you that we can no longer be the beast of burden for the state, but the younger and more viable communities must carry their fair share. There can be..Mr. Speaker..."

"Just a minute, Mr. Ewell. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that this Amendment is out of order. We've adopted Amendment #83 which added a Section E to the Section 2.02 and this purports to add a Section E in the same part of Section 2.02. The Amendment's are incompatible."

"Point is well taken, Representative Collins and the Amendment is out of order. Representative Ewell."

"Mr. Speaker, indeed this is something that can be cleaned up by a simple renumbering 'F'. You could consider it a typographical error in the good faith and fairness which you have always administered this Body..."

"It shouldn't take you long to get it redrafted then, Representative..."

"Leave to amend it on its face..."

"The Amendment is out of order..."

"Well, I asked for leave to amend it on its face..."

"...And you'll have to start over with it or whatever you want to do. It doesn't matter. Representative Collins."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, it would take more than a renumbering because it also is the same lines in the Bill (sic)."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bullock, for what purpose do you seek recognition?" 97  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Point of order, Mr. Speaker."

"State your point."

"My good friend from Calumet City, a great ardent supporter of the great University of Notre Dame, understands the importance of fairness in this House. What my colleague, Representative Ewell, is asking for is no more and no less than we've granted on at least six occasions for people to merely amend their Amendments on their face and to so proceed with the business of the House. My point of order is that Representative Collins should check his tie. I think he's got a spot there from his sore throat and I think that after he checks his tie, he will ask for forgiveness for the utterance that he just made in defaming the name of Representative Henry from the west side of Chicago. I've known Representative Henry for many years and I don't think that he likes Oreo Cookies. I really think he likes oatmeal cookies and I think that if Representative Collins would stop and think for a moment that he would realize that Representative Henry and Representative McPike are honorable men and they should be given the same degree of respect that he's given his colleagues to vote on Representative Ewell's great Amendment. Representative Ewell's Amendment..."

"Just a minute, Representative Bullock. Representative Collins."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I think Representative Bullock is giving Representative Huff's speech which has nothing to do with this Amendment and I might add to the Gentleman that we never won at Notre Dame by giving the other side unfair advantage."

"Amendment #89 is out of order. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #90, Bowman, amends House Bill 743 98  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 on page one and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, would you take a look with the Parliamentarian? I think this is out of order also."

"Can you tell me where, Representative?"

"There's no longer a page 51. There's no longer a Section 3.1"

"Your point is well taken. The Amendment's out of order. Mr. Telcser?"

"Mr. Speaker, it's really been a long night. Could we take this out of the record right now?"

"How many more Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"There are five more Amendments."

"The Gentleman requests 743 be taken out of the record. We'll go to House Bill 741. Representative Telcser."

"House Bill 741 has been read a second time previously. Amendment #1, Ryan-Telcser, amends House Bill 741 as amended."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, Amendment #1 authorizes an appropriation from the Gross Receipts Tax Fund to the Department of Revenue for administration of expenses in relation to the collection and distribution of the taxes that are collected pursuant to this Act. I would appreciate a favorable Roll Call on Amendment #1."

"Is there any discussion on the Gentleman's Amendment, Amendment #1? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bullock."

"Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Indicates he will." 99  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Representative Telcser, a short while ago one of the Members on this side of the aisle proposed a nonsubstantive Amendment if you please to change the name of this fund and you stood in opposition to that Amendment. My analysis of this particular Amendment indicates that it does indeed relate to the Petroleum Products Revenue Act. Am I incorrect?"

"Representative, the Act is the Petroleum Products Act. However the fund to which the money goes and is appropriated from is called, 'The Gross Receipts Tax Fund'. My comments on Amendment #9 to the Lady's Bill are still valid and that's going to have to be cleaned up somewhere in the process."

"Representative Telcser, what ...This is a second question, Mr. Speaker. What has the Department of Revenue given you as the fiscal impact of this particular Amendment authorizing them to administer this particular fund?"

"Somewhere in the range of less than half a million, maybe 450 thousand, 500 thousand."

"Is that for the ..."

"Dollars.."

"...Gross Receipt Tax Fund on an annual basis or just for the..."

"...That would come from the gross receipts tax, from the revenues derived from the gross receipts tax."

"Is that to administer the Gross Receipts Tax Fund entirely or does this include the entire administration of the transportation package, including the Road Fund and the Urban Mass Transit?"

"Representative, I'd like you to repeat the question..."

"Mr. Speaker, could you get a little decorum? Speaker Ryan?.."

"Representative, I want you to..." 100  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Absolutely. Just a minute, Mr. Telcser. The House will come to order. Members will be in their seats. Mr. Doorkeeper, put the Members in their seats, will you please? Proceed, Mr. Telcser."

"Representative Telcser, my first question related to what was the total amount or the aggregate sum that the Department of Revenue would need to administer the Act. I think you said about half a million dollars..."

"Right. And I was wrong. It generally is a rule of thumb. It takes somewhere close to one percent of the amount that would be collected. Estimates are that 400 thousand....400 million would be collected and therefore, it could go as high as 4 million dollars."

"It will go as high as how much? I didn't hear you."

"It could go as high as 4 million dollars."

"As four million. So that's quite a jump from 400 thousand isn't it?"

"It's about ten times as much."

"Well, thank you. Mr. Speaker, I think he's clarified the point."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Sangamon, Representative Kane."

"Would the Sponsor yield? How many companies are going to be subject to this tax?"

"Somewhere in the vicinity of 1,000."

"One thousand companies subject to the tax?"

"That is the estimates from the rep. from the Department."

"Thank you."

"About 1,000 taxpayers."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Jones."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just a point of clarification. I know we are operating under temporary 101  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 rules and according to the original Bill I have in front of me, it indicates that you are the Chief Sponsor of this here monstrous tax increase and I don't recall the Body giving leave to the Majority Leader to handle these Bills. Now, are you the Sponsor of this Bill? Or is Telcser? According to the Bill I have in front of me you are the Chief Sponsor."

"Is there any further discussion? The Lady from DuPage, Representative Fawell."

"...Offer the previous question?"

"The Lady has moved the previous question. All in favor signify by saying 'aye' and all opposed 'no'. And the previous question prevails. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser, to close."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, it's really quite a simple Amendment. It allows the administration of the Act. We must have it. We ought to have it. I urge a favorable vote."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #1 to House Bill 741 be adopted?' All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 128 voting 'aye', 16 voting 'no' and 4 voting 'present'. And the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"

"Amendment #2, McClain, et al, amends House Bill 741..."

"The Gentleman from Adams, Representative McClain."

"Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment #2 to House Bill 741 is a 'no pass through' Amendment. In other words, the oil companies could not pass on to their purchasers of home heating fuel farmers, or service station owners, in other words, 102  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 consumers, the five percent gross receipts tax. Now, there are two Sections of the Amendment. The first Section is the intention clause, which says that it's the intent of the Illinois General Assembly and the Governor of the State of Illinois that this tax should not be passed on. The second Section of this Amendment goes to the concept of exempting certain products that are from allowable expenses for the oil industry. Ladies and Gentlemen, you're going to hear questions of Constitutionality and quotes of a Connecticut pass through Amendment. I'd like to explain that if I can. Connecticut has a gross receipts tax presently. In Connecticut's law, they have a provision for a no pass through Amendment. It was declared unconstitutional. It was not declared unconstitutional on the basis of the supremacy clause or it was not declared unconstitutional on the basis of restricting interstate commerce. It was declared unconstitutional because of the supremacy clause of the United States Constitution. Now the basis from the court case on the supremacy clause was because of the Emergency Petroleum Allocation Act which now expires October 1st, 1981. In other words, President Reagan has seen fit to deregulate all restrictions on oil at this time. So, the point or the issue at which the Connecticut no pass through Amendment to the gross receipts tax was declared unconstitutional will be null and void because the Emergency Petroleum Allocation Act will be expired by October 1st, 1981. So, the quote of the unconstitutionality of the no pass through Amendment for the Connecticut gross receipts tax ...no pass through Amendment, is invalid in terms of consideration of Amendment #2 for House Bill 741. I'd like to talk to you for a minute on what this basically does. It allows that the tax on gross receipts of petroleum products being taxed 103  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 to those oil companies should be raised another way and not passed through to the citizens of the State of Illinois. It allows the petroleum distributors and refiners the leeway to raise necessary prices not connected with the gross receipts. And it gives the state the authority to impose controls on our economic viability and it has nothing to do with federal supremacy. And on that I'd like to answer any questions. Otherwise, I'd move for the adoption of Amendment #2."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Grossi. Representative Grossi, do you seek recognition? Turn your light off then. The Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Tuerk."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, I just heard the Gentleman from Adams give an eloquent speech about Constitutional law, but the unfortunate part of it is that Representative from the Quincy area apparently hasn't taken any economics. There's one simple rule that anytime that you inflict a gross receipts tax on any industry, you're eventually going to pass that charge on to the consumer. There's just no other way to do it. It's just ludicrous in the words of Representative DiPrima who's used that term so often on the floor of the House. It's a ludicrous Amendment. I would urge for the defeat of the Amendment and ask that you vote 'no'."

"The Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative Darrow."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman moves the previous question. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye'; all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the previous question is moved. The Gentleman from Adams, Representative McClain, to close."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen 104  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 of the House, in all fairness, I really believe this is a fair Amendment. Right now Illinois is the fourth highest in the State of Illinois (sic)...in the United States on collecting of gross receipts on oil companies. We are a regional center of distributing oil throughout this entire midwest. We are the fourth highest state in the entire nation. It's totally fair for our citizens to have a no pass through Amendment. On top of that, if you look at our gasoline taxes, we're the highest in the nation. On balance, on everything, this is a reasonable Amendment. It is Constitutional. It's been artfully drafted so that it does not fall in the problems that the Connecticut law had, as I tried to explain. And I'd ask for an 'aye' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 to House Bill 741 be adopted?' All in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; all opposed by voting 'no'. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Conti, to explain his vote."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is another beautiful press release Amendment for the people back home. I don't know of any oil companies that are not in the 50 percent bracket and if it's going to cost them five percent more to do business on their gross receipts in the State of Illinois, it only comes off their income tax and if it comes off their income tax Uncle Sam is going to just write off that much more for the profits that they're making in the State of Illinois. So this is a cruel hoax on the people in the State of Illinois stating that these ...all these wonderful, good intentioned Legislators pass an Amendment on this Bill to say that they're not going to pass it on to the consumer, but the Federal Government will not get that money in income tax."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Zito." 105  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I'd like to explain my 'yes' vote on this Amendment. When the Gentlemen from the oil company were here in testimony last week they indicated their social responsibility and felt that it was socially responsible for oil companies to get involved and that was the reasoning they gave some $730 thousand to Mrs. Reagan to refurbish the White House. The social responsibility of oil companies is to help in those capacities and I think, Mr. Speaker and Members of this House, that they can help us on our transportation crisis. I would urge a 'yes' vote."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, I see fortunately there are more 'no' votes than 'yes' votes. What this vote really is in my judgment is a vote of politically honesty and integrity. The people of this country have shown over the recent years their declining respect for their own government and for people in the government. All of us know that if we impose a tax on a company as a general rule they will try to pass it through to the consumer. Representative Conti pointed out very well that the companies will be getting deductions on their federal income tax for the increased cost. But nevertheless, I think it would be dishonest in my view to adopt an Amendment like this. Let's at least be honest with our constituents. Tell them where they stand. They'll respect each one of us more for that honesty and it'll help restore some confidence in government. Honesty doesn't hurt anybody."

"The Gentleman from Macoupin, Representative Hannig."

"Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I rise to explain my 'yes' vote on this Amendment. 106  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 During the Committee of the Whole discussions last week, I think it became quite clear that unless this Amendment is adopted, the oil companies intend to pass the full cost of this tax on to the consumers. The hocus-pocus that the Governor and some of the Members have spoke of earlier concerning federal tax deductions simply is not true. In order to recover the full cost of this tax, oil companies must and will pass the tax through dollar for dollar. Without this Amendment, motorists, farmers, consumers of home heating oil will have to bear the full cost of this $800 million program. Surely without this Amendment this Bill is a major tax increase on all the users of petroleum based products. Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I don't believe we should allow the consumers to bear the cost of this program. I would urge a 'yes' vote on this Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Epton."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Since I breathe occasionally and drive occasionally and use public transportation occasionally, I have a conflict of interest. But as always, I'll vote my conscience."

"The Gentleman from Bond, Representative Slape."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise to explain my vote. It's a 'yes' vote on this Amendment. If this General Assembly is indeed serious about its attempts to come to some kind of conclusion and to answer the problems of mass transit and the problems of the road program in the State of Illinois, then it's very clear to me, as a downstate Legislator, that I have to secure, not only some programs and to bring some money down south, but as a downstate Legislator, I have to ensure that the farmers in my District do not receive an unfair tax 107  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 burden. When the Secretary of Transportation was here he explained or tried to explain that this program would bring an additional cost of just a little over a dollar an acre to the individual farmers. The Illinois Farm Bureau however insists that the cost would approach more..would approach more likely to $2.24 ...$2.24 an acre that the farmer would have to absorb in his cost of operation. For this reason I think it's only fair to the farmers of the State of Illinois that we put this Amendment on. And protect their interests being that they have no free enterprise really to operate under. They have to go to the market. They have to accept the prices offered to them at that time. And I would urge this General Assembly, if they're serious about a road program this year, to vote 'yes'."

"The Gentleman from Wayne, Representative Robbins."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, we have driven most of the gasoline stations out of business around the borders of the State of Illinois because of the high prices. With this Amendment on, we will drive the distributors out of business and then you won't have to worry about any tax because there won't be anyone there to furnish you with the gasoline."

"The Lady from LaSalle, Representative Breslin."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen, the reason I vote for this Amendment is because the people in my District don't want a tax increase. It's very simple. And this is the only way we can, if the Governor is to have his way, that we can keep a tax increase off the people in our Districts."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Balanoff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I couldn't agree more with the Majority Leader on the other side of the aisle. Let us 108  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 not be dishonest with our constituents. We know the Governor would not ask for a sales tax increase at this time, so let's not use any subterfuge. Let us not cover up. If we do not pass this Amendment, we know the oil companies will pass the tax on to the consumers and it will be a tax which will be exactly like a sales tax. Let's not disguise this tax on the oil companies. So let's pass this Amendment so it will not be a sales tax and let's get this Bill on the road."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Matijevich."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I don't mind the utilities winning on one end. But I don't want them winning on both ends. You know that they have the federal deduction. We already know that. But for them to get the federal deduction, and then to pass it on to you damn consumers, what are you for? Now, I want to tell my Democratic downstate Members, don't you get caught in that trap. Every downstate Democrat vote with McClain on this because it may mean your reelection. That's what it may mean. Don't listen to these Chicago Democrats on this issue. No."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Greiman. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't...I thought you were through, Representative. Representative Greiman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"I didn't cut you off, Representative. Representative Greiman proceed."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House..."

"...Explain your vote, Representative Greiman?"

"I did want to, yes. I merely wanted to paraphrase Charles Darwin and suggest that those people that are voting 'no' believe in the survival of the fattest. And 109  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 that's precisely what that is. And with that, I will sit down, having made my point."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Ewell."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen..."

"Proceed, will you, Representative Ewell?"

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, I've always prided myself with some integrity. But this is a promise that you ain't going to get pregnant. And I cannot make it to the voters and therefore, I'm going to vote 'present'."

"Have all voted who wish? Take the record, will you, Mr. Clerk? On this issue there are 69 voting 'aye' and 76 voting 'no', 5 voting 'present'. And the Amendment fails. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, Matijevich, amends House Bill 741 on ...."

"..Just a minute. Representative McClain?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would you be gracious enough to poll the absentees, please?"

"Absolutely, if that's your desire, Representative. Poll the absentees for the Representative from Adams, Representative McClain."

"We're on a roll."

"Poll of the absentees: Bluthardt. Bradley. Capparelli. Carey. Deuster. DiPrima. Domico. Doyle. Ewing. Flinn...."

"Representative Domico wishes to be recorded as voting 'aye'. Representative Flinn wishes to be recorded as voting 'no'. Representative Bowman wishes to change from 'present' to 'aye'. Is that right, Representative? Continue."

"Dwight Friedrich. Garmisa. Giorgi. Kustra. I mean Krska. Kulas. Laurino. Lechowicz. Margalus. Martire. Oblinger. Pierce. Preston. Reilly. Richmond. 110  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Stearney. E.G.Steele. And, Stuffle."

"Representative DiPrima, do you seek recognition?"

"Yes, Sir, Mr. Speaker. How am I recorded?"

"How's the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman's not recorded as voting."

"I think that's ludicrous. Record me as voting 'aye'."

"Record the Gentleman as 'aye'. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Doyle."

"Vote me 'aye'."

"Record the Gentleman as 'aye'. Representative Kulas. Record the Gentleman as 'aye'. Representative Krska wishes to be recorded as voting 'no'. Representative Laurino, 'aye'. Representative Leon? Change Representative Leon from 'present' to 'no'. Record Representative Margalus, 'no'. Any further changes? Representative Ewing, 'no'. Any further changes? What's the count, Mr. Clerk? On this issue there are 75 voting 'yes', 85 voting 'no', 5 voting....81 voting 'no', 5 voting 'present'. And the Amendment's lost. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, Matijevich, amends House Bill 741 on page two and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Matijevich."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the General Assembly, this is a very simple Amendment. This prevents the gross receipts sales tax...the gross receipts tax from being passed on for home heating oil and the reason for the Amendment is that all of us have seen the very difficult times that many of the people who are on fixed incomes, many of the residential users of home heating fuel have had to pay just their home heating costs. This would prevent them from having an added burden on from this tax. It's the same type of thing that the Assembly in New York and 111  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Connecticut felt that should be added on to their gross receipts tax. I don't think it's in any way an Amendment that we, in Illinois, should not feel it ought to be a policy decision from our General Assembly. I think we ought to take a position that we, as the Legislature, feel that the people who pay so many of the burdens have had enough, that if there is a gross receipts tax, that it should not be passed on to those who can no longer afford it. So, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would urge the Members of the House to adopt Amendment #3 to House Bill 741."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, the Gentleman has explained very succinctly Amendment #3. And I'm..I feel very much as every Member of the House does, that there are certain citizens throughout the state for a variety of reasons to whom we give various types of exemptions and reduced prices, tax breaks, because we, in the Assembly, recognize and feel that they represent a certain segment of society and they need a little extra help. Therefore, Amendment #3 becomes very appealing. It has a great emotional appeal and obviously a political appeal. I'm not quite sure which comes first, but political considerations are always important to people serving in government. But this is another one of those times where we have to look at the facts. If we exempt out home heating oil, I'm sure that other Members can come forward and make a case for senior citizens who want to have an exemption, for handicapped people who ought to have an exemption, all kinds of citizens in a variety of different types of circumstances who can be argued on behalf of for a rationale for granting an exemption. And by the time we get finished with all of the exemptions, the tax will not 112  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 yield enough money. That's the same dilemma we have when it comes to the state income tax. Every Session of the Legislature Bills are introduced to grant exemptions from the state income tax for one or another worthy segment of Illinois' society. Well, my friends, if we're going to fund mass transportation in whatever structural form it winds up being, by some sort of a tax, we're going to have to be responsible and resist the temptation to offer exemptions of one type or another. An exemption of this sort could cost the state close to $40 million in lost revenue which we are depending upon as a revenue yield from this particular tax. Additionally, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, it would be almost impossible to enforce the law regarding this exemption. The taxes imposed at the wholesale level, there's no real rational reasonably cross conscience way to enforce the tax because there would be no real way to know where the oil product goes from distributor down to the retailer level. It would be a burdensome, costly, almost impossible enforcement problem for the Department of Revenue which would only lead to a further erosion of the tax yield. So, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I think it's quite apparent that just about every Member of the Assembly has a deep concern for the problem of mass transportation. That's in evidence by the huge number of Amendments that have been filed with the Clerk on all of the Bills. If you have that feeling of responsibility, that you must protect the revenue source which is going to be used to fund the problem of mass transportation and highway construction and highway maintenance, Mr. Speaker, Amendment #3 ought to be defeated."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Franklin, Representative Rea." 113  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I happen to come from a District with a high percentage of senior citizens and I know that many of you also come from similar Districts. If there should be an exemption, this is one of the exemptions that should be in existence. Many of the senior citizens have really hurt this past winter and during last year and this has been a mild year. And, with this additional increase of a tax it would certainly hurt those of the elderly and the economically deprived. I would ask that each one of you look at this very carefully and that you support this most important Amendment."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich."

"Would the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"How many dollars worth of home heating oil is sold in Illinois?"

"I have been told that it could be $23 million, Mr. Friedrich."

"Okay. Now, the problem I think that you may be creating here unwittingly is that when the refinery makes home heating oil, that heating oil can be used in a factory, it could be used in a store, it could be used anywhere besides a home. How do we police this thing to see that the guy who runs a factory...?"

"Home heating for residential purposes..."

"I know .."

"..That's how we do it.."

"Yes. I accept that the tax is imposed at the refinery or from the...the manufacturer actually of petroleum products and not by the distributor. So it's already going to be taxed by the time it gets down to this guy with a tank wagon. Now, how does he...how do you get 114  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 it back? You're going to have a rebate? You say you don't tax it. It's going to be taxed before it gets to the man who runs book plan? How do you do that? I don't quite understand it."

"Well, the Amendment does state that it..the exemption is for home heating fuel oil for residential purposes.."

"Yes, Sir. I understand that..."

"And that ..there ought to be a mechanism I'm sure that that be the exemption."

"But isn't the tax imposed by ..on the refiner or the big oil company as opposed to the little tank truck driver?"

"I hope you're not telling me that somehow the refiners don't know what percentage of that oil is going for home heating purposes.."

"Well, what's the difference between the oil you heat your home with and the one you run the factory with or the use in a small store or office or something else? I don't know the difference in the kind of oil. I thought it was all the same kind of oil for an oil burning furnace."

"Well, I think those who sell the oil know the difference. That's for sure."

"Well, I think you're creating a monster. That's what I'm trying to say."

"You would."

"Further questions? The Lady from LaSalle, Representative Breslin."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of this Amendment. As I understand it, if we exempt home heating fuel, #1 and #2 fuel oil, the total amount that this Amendment would cost out of the Governor's package is $22 million in '82 and $36 million in '83. This is according 115  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 to the Transportation Study Committee. It's not a great deal of money and it really affects people who have very difficult time living in a warm climate. Now, I don't know how many of you assist in the Federal Energy Assistance Program every winter. But those of us who do know how the poor and the old come into our offices. They start calling in October on the first cold day. They have difficulty right now meeting those bills and I don't think we should add to their burden. Thank you."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Representative Friedrich I thought made a telling point. But his point can be carried a step further. When you heat your home, you can heat your home with the #2 distillate. When you run a diesel truck down the highway, an 80 thousand pound diesel truck, you could run that diesel truck on #2 diesel, #2 distillate. The problem with Mr. Matijevich's Amendment is he doesn't even put into the language of the Amendment any language on intent, on purpose or anything else. And when that person buys that fuel there's no reason they can't run that diesel truck down the road on what purports to be diesel...on what purports to be home fuel. So the very people that are destroying the roads the worst may be the people who are paying no tax under the terms of his Amendment."

"Is there any further discussion? The Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, when we want to find a way of exempting certain Articles we can find that way. We know that we have ways of marking airplane fuel for instance so that it can be used for that special use and a tax rebate can be made on it. I think we 116  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 need to have an Amendment of this sort on this legislation because people who are using home heating oil see absolutely no relationship to that usage and transportation costs. There is no relationship to the number of highway miles that need to be paved or the number of transit miles that need to be ridden in our metropolitan areas. And this is one of the reasons that we, in downstate Illinois, feel that the Bill without Amendments such as this would place an unfair burden on our constituency. This is one way that you may be able to get some support for this package that you will not be able to get unless some of these exemptions are made and I support this Amendment."

"The Lady from DuPage, Representative Fawell."

"Thank you, Mr. Chairman (sic) and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I am just a poor lowly freshmen Legislator and I will admit I do not understand all the politics that are going on here tonight. Apparently there's some reason why the Democrats would like us to stay here for a long, long time. But I do know enough about economics to know that if we do not pass this tax on, what we are looking at, and this the oil companies have guaranteed us, we are looking at a law suit. All the money that we have collected for the CTA will be put in escrow. We will not be able to touch it. The CTA will go down in flames and I thought we were supposed to be here to be working on a problem. We, on this side of the aisle, are trying very hard to get these Amendments through and all you over there on the other side of the aisle are doing is delaying the process and I would suggest that we quit this nonsense and get on with the business at hand. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Ewell."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, in the days of Rome the oarsmen were often chained to the oars. My heart goes 117  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 out to all of you who are chained to this Bill. But at least I'm not going to join those who are going to lash you while you row the boat. I don't think it's fair. Most of the people who are going to vote for this and other exceptions, both sides of the aisle, aren't going to vote for the Bill. They're ducking their responsibility. At least I'm not going to join in beating you to keep the tempo so I'm going to vote 'present'."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Matijevich, to close."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, if you believe like Representative Vinson believes that home fuel...home heating oil pertains to evidently people who use Mann's and diesel vehicles as their home, then there's the exemption. I don't believe that's what Sam Vinson is trying to protect. I don't really believe that Sam Vinson is really going to vote for anything at all. I'm just amazed that anybody that's going to vote against this exemption is going to vote for the tax at all. I see those crocodile tears over there and you who are saying that I am irresponsible because I am introducing an Amendment that is responsible, because of an exemption that I think hits at people that cannot afford it, and you are not going to vote for any damn gross receipts tax at all. Now don't tell me I'm irresponsible. Where do you come from? I am going to be proud in saying that I believe that the taxpayers who have been writing to me in this very short time, very short time since this Thompson proposal has hit my desk and believe me most of them who have written me are Republicans and I can tell all of them to go to hell. Because they never vote for me. Here are all these damn Republicans voting for me and telling me to save them when you ought to be saving them. And I'm telling you 118  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 that I represent that poor people that can't afford a damn more cent of anything. How can I vote for anything that I can't afford? You tell me how I can afford (sic) for anything that I can't afford when my income is $30 thousand a year. Now you vote for it. But don't tell me I'm irresponsible. You stand up here and tell me you're for it. But do not tell me that I'm in a position that I can't protect poor people, that I can't protect people in middle income, that I cannot protect people who cannot pay their home heating fuel now. In that one short day that we came home over this weekend, in the Waukegan New Sun, I read in that one short day, that the people cannot pay their bills to Common Wealth Edison today. They cannot pay their own fuel oil bills today. Now, I don't give a damn if you want to vote for it. Go ahead. But don't tell me I'm irresponsible. And, again, I tell my downstate Democrats, don't listen to the Chicago Democrats. Vote for John Matijevich who stands for poor people and vote for this Amendment."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #3 to House Bill 741 be adopted?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye'; all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 101 voting 'yes', 40 voting 'no' and 6 voting 'present'. The Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #4, Matijevich, amends House Bill 741 on page seven and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Matijevich, on Amendment #4."

"Mr. Speaker, this is a McClain Amendment, but a better Sponsor. No. Really, it isn't the McClain Amendment, but it's a tighter Amendment. And it has to do 119  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 with the anti-pass through Amendment and it's a little stronger than Mike McClain had because I put penalties on it. I..I mandate that the oil companies certify that they do not pass it on to the consumer. And I'm serious about this too, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I listened as all of you did and I frankly think that maybe we were wasting our time for two days. But all of us Members, all we can do is hear what we did on the floor of the House. And I heard the oil companies say that they do have the ...they have the federal income tax deduction and I'm serious when I say I know that they have that deduction. And they will use that deduction, believe me, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Since they have that deduction, I believe with Governor Thompson, that as long as they have that deduction it should not be passed through..to the consumer. All this Amendment does, Ladies and Gentlemen, is that we state as a policy of the State of Illinois through this General Assembly that they don't pass through to the consumer. I think that makes sense. Now, some of you may say that because the lower District Court, the Federal District Court, has ruled it unconstitutional, that we should not incorporate it into our law. I say that all the chips aren't in. The Supreme Court has not decided yet. As long as the Supreme Court has not decided, then we, as the General Assembly, ought to take the position that we are against the anti-pass through. And the issue is this, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The issue is only one. Are we going to have this tax on the oil companies as it has been advocated that it is really against and the oil companies can't afford it? Or, will it pass on to the consumers? And my bottom line is, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, if it is passed through to the consumers then we should not be for it. Because the 120  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 consumers cannot pay for any more. And that's the letter I've been receiving from all the Republicans. They all tell me they cannot afford anymore at the pump price. So, that's the bottom line. If it is passed on to the consumer, we, as a House, cannot be for it. If you want to be for it, then you are against this Amendment. And, believe me, this is not political in my mind. I fight with my Democratic Majority's. This, to me, is a matter of basic philosophy. I believe, like you conservative Republicans, we have had it with taxes. And therefore, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I think this is a responsible Amendment that doesn't bring it down to the pump, to the consumers. And I think that you Republicans really feel the way I do on this issue. And therefore, I ask for your favorable vote."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."

"I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman moves the previous question. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye'; all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The previous question has been moved. The question is, 'Shall Amendment #4 to House Bill 741 be adopted?' All in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; all opposed by voting 'no'. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser, to explain his vote."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, the debate we had on the prior Amendment which really is the same subject matter holds true now as it did before. It's a question, I believe, of integrity and honesty. I don't think anyone really believes you can prevent a company from passing on to their consumers the cost of doing business. That, I really believe, it to be the issue. I think a 'no' vote is a vote which you can go back to your District with, 121  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 explain what you did, why you did it and hold you head high because you weren't trying to fool anybody. I know some Members sincerely believe perhaps that this type of Amendment will indeed prohibit a pass through to the consumer. I don't believe that is true. And as long as I don't believe that it is true and that the courts will not uphold any kind of legislation of that nature, then I'm going to be honest with the constituents whom I represent. I am not afraid to do it. I've got faith in my constituents' intellect and sense of fair play. They want the problem of mass transportation solved. I know many of your constituents want the same. I know that many of you who represent downstate Districts and less populated Districts than mine are concerned about highway transportation, highway travel. You have nothing to fear from your constituents. And you need not worry about your political futures. Honest people in government who go to their constituents and tell them what happened get re-elected."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Beatty."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, same. I know that many of you who represent downstate Districts and less populated Districts than mine are concerned about highway transportation, highway travel. You have nothing to fear from your constituents. And you need not worry about your political futures. Honest people in government who go to their constituents and tell them what happened get reelected."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Beatty."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, I'm voting 'no' on this Amendment because the 100 percent penalty is too much for me."

"The Gentleman from Will, Representative Davis." 122  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's a sham, Representative Sponsor. It's done with mirrors. You're going to go back and tell your people you've put an anti-pass through policy Amendment on. You can't restrict the petroleum industry from doing it. They're going to put it on. They're going to pass it through. They have a right to do it in trade and Representative Sponsor, I think you're trying to get yourself in a position where you may be able to support the Minority Leader in voting for the Bill on Third Reading. And then, of course, you'll have an opportunity to vote again on the Bill when it comes back from the Senate, and then again on the Bill when it comes back from the First Conference Committee Report and then again on the Bill when it comes back from the Second Conference Committee Report."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Barkhausen."

"In explanation of my vote, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I, like many others in this room, am not wild about the concept of a gross receipts tax on the oil companies. However, I don't think there's one Member of this Body that thinks for a minute that either this particular Amendment banning a pass-through or the Gentleman's prior Amendment, exempting home fuel oil, are the least bit Constitutional or that any court in this land would hold them Constitutional. I believe that the Gentleman is perpetuating a charade that is keeping us here all too long by introducing Amendments that are blatantly unconstitutional and trying to pull the wool over the people...pullthe wool over the eyes of the people of this state. Let's get on with the business at hand and help us all devise a serious and constructive approach to the problem that confronts us. We need a sound transportation 123  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 system. We don't need legislation which is going to devise a solution which three months down the road the courts will find unconstitutional and send us back here in Special Session to start all over again. Let's get serious, everybody. I vote 'no'."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Mulcahey."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, I'm not quite sure whether or not this measure is Constitutional or not. As a matter of fact, it's not for us to decide. But I can say this about going back and telling people back in my District what I did. I can say I tried. That's a hell of a lot more than 68 people are doing."

"Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 67 voting 'yes', 71 voting 'no' and 4 voting 'present'. The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Matijevich."

"I've never been accused of a charade before, but if that's what I'm accused of, I'd like to poll the absentees."

"Poll the absentees, Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of the Absentees: Abramson. Barnes. Bartulis. Bluthardt. Bradley. Brummer. Bullock. Capparelli. Carey. Chapman. Deuchler. Deuster. Donovan. Ebbesen. Virginia Frederick. Hallstrom. Henry. Hoxsey. Huff. Jones. Martire. Mautino. McAuliffe. McGrew. McMaster. Oblinger. Pouncey. Redmond. Rhem. Schuneman. Margaret Smith. Stearney. E.G.Steele. Stuffle. And, J.J.Wolf."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bullock."

"Mr. Speaker, vote me 'aye'."

"Record the Gentleman as 'aye'. What's the count? Record Representative Jones as 'aye'. Do you want to be 124  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 recorded or not, Representative Jones? Take him off the record...off the Roll Call. Representative Smith?" Smith, M: "'Aye', please."

"Record the Lady as 'aye'. On this issue...What's the count, Mr. Clerk? The Gentleman from Whiteside, Representative Schuneman."

"Vote me 'no' please."

"Record the Gentleman as 'no'. On this issue there are 69 voting 'aye', 72 voting 'no', 4 voting 'present'. And the Amendment loses. Further Amendments?"

"Amendment #5, Matijevich, amends House Bill 741 on page twelve and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Cook (sic), Representative Matijevich."

"I'm from Lake. Don't ever put me in Cook County. My taxpayers would ..."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Matijevich."

"Mr. Speaker, this is the best Amendment. You haven't heard anything yet. In fact, I heard so much about integrity, I'm almost about to vomit, Art. Let me tell you what this Amendment is all about. This Amendment is all about the fact that it does not take effect until there is a statewide referendum in 1982. And, let me tell you why I introduced it. Remember the Thompson petition? I think most of you remember that petition that the Governor, who introduced this package of Bills, passed along to all of the taxpayers all around the State of Illinois, regarding tax limitations, regarding taxes and the whole issue? Now, let me tell you what he did when he came before us in the General Assembly right after that referendum...that petition. Here's what Governor Thompson said to all of us; Our Governor said that he didn't believe that any new..." 125  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Just a minute, Representative. For what purpose does the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Birkinbine, arise?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, a question of the Chair. In light of the adoption of Amendment #1, dealing with Sections 18, 19 and 20, is this Amendment in order?"

"The Parliamentarian tells me the Amendment is in order. Proceed, Representative Matijevich."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, and I hesitate to do this because anybody would interpret it as political, and you probably should. But, I interpret it as a matter of truth in political rhetoric. And I think there's a difference in that. Because here's what Governor Thompson told all of us and I think it's a matter of the Legislature versus the Executive. Because I don't think we were so phoney about it. The Governor told all of us as a General Assembly that if we were to impose any new tax that had a broad implication statewide, that two things ought to happen. And I think, you know, you first termers weren't here, but God is my judge that this is what he said. Because I heard him up there. He said two things have got to happen; 1) that new broad state tax has got to pass both Houses with the three-fifths Majority. Right? Any of you Members that were here? You heard that. Right? Now, now, you know it's true because even Bill Laurino says it's true. And he ...The second thing he said, second thing; if it has that broad new tax, it must be approved in a statewide referendum. Governor Thompson said that. Now, John Cullerton is my witness. John Matijevich didn't say that, right? John Cullerton didn't say that. Marco Domico didn't say that..."

"Representative Matijevich, would you explain your Amendment please?" 126  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Governor Thompson said that, the same individual who is proposing this new statewide tax, a five percent gross receipts tax. Now, if you believe in that guy that made this proposal, if you believe in what he has said across the board, and you do believe..."

"All right. All right. Bring your remarks to a close, will you, Representative?"

"If you do believe then you also believe in all of what he says, in all of what he says that it should be a statewide referendum. And I believe him. He's my Governor. I believe him totally and therefore, I think this is a good Amendment and leave the taxpayers vote on it. And if you believe as I do you will vote for this Amendment too."

"Is there any discussion on the Gentleman's Amendment? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, let me first say to the Sponsor of this Amendment that I'm sorry he's not feeling well and I hope he does not throw up his dinner, but just careful of your seatmate in the event you do, I suggest you move down one seat. I sincerely hope maybe you could take a calm bitter. See Georgia. Take an 'anti-medic'. You'll feel better. I hope by tomorrow morning you're feeling better, John. A couple of the Members on our side of the aisle want to know what restaurant you went to for dinner tonight. They want to enjoy the same meal for themselves. But nevertheless, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, and to the Sponsor of this Amendment particularly, the Sponsor of the Amendment happens to be a friend of mine and someone for whom I really, sincerely have the highest regard. And although someone might accuse the Sponsor of trying to protect some 127  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Members' political derriere, I really don't think that's the truth. I think the Gentleman is sincere and on that score, John, I commend you. However, I think you're being irresponsible. And, until such time as the Roll Call is taken and announced, you can always redeem yourself and table your Amendment. But nevertheless, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, we're elected to this Assembly to make decisions. If we're going to take the position that we ought to have a referendum on every difficult Roll Call we're called upon to vote, then what is the point of representative government? What is the point of a Legislature? What is the point of a Legislator? Let's simply put everything on a ballot and let the people vote the way they want. Now, if that's an idea you believe in, then you ought to support the Gentleman's Amendment for a referendum. But in our form of government, which I happen to believe in, we're called upon to make sometimes difficult decisions. Edmund Burke said it very well, a great philosopher, when he talked about Legislators. He said that, ' a Legislator owes no man his judgment, but only his conscience'. And if you do what you believe to be right, you'll be re-elected. I know that's very, very much in the minds of most of the people who serve in government and in Legislators...Legislatures particularly. And what happens, I'm sorry to say, is that too often decisions are made based on politics instead of on the issue itself. Well, you needn't be afraid of this question. If you believe in mass transportation and a highway program, and safety for the citizens of Illinois, you believe this is a valid, sound source of revenue, you ought to vote against Amendment #4 (sic).If you live an insecure life, always afraid of a political consequence, then perhaps you ought to support the Sponsor of Amendment #4..er..Amendment #5. 128  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 I happen to think that there are more people in government who do the right thing when called upon to do so. I also happen to believe that the citizens of Illinois get a high caliber, high quality Legislature and are served well by people who serve in government. So, I'm not afraid of them. You ought not be and we ought to vote against Amendment #5, which, by the way, calls for the election to be held in 1982. What are we to do between now and then, even if the public and the voters would adopt the referendum? Please vote 'no'."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Piel."

"I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved previous question. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye'; all opposed, 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. And the previous question prevails. The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Matijevich, to close."

"I'll be very short, Art. And, Art, Art and I fought against the cut back Amendment and we are very close. Art and I came down here together and he knows how I feel about him. But, Art..but as Art said, I think he's wrong. Now, really Art, I have to tell the truth and I even..and I haven't even had dinner yet, Art. But, but let me tell you; can I tell you where I got this idea, Art? I have a habit of....My friend, Zeke Giorgi, clips out everything out of the newspapers and I have that habit that Zeke Giorgi has. I clip things out of the newspaper and in my office I've got an old clipping from the Governor. And I thought when this issue came...I went all over the 1979 transportation package and if you think this is something, Art, you ought to go over that '79 clippings I've got on the transportation package. I'll make this issue look like nothing. That Thompson-Byrne package was..I mean we could speak all day about ..on that. But, believe me, I got this 129  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Amendment from the Governor's press release. This isn't John Matijevich speaking. This is Governor Thompson. I mean, I might be a short ugly guy, and I don't look like him. I am talking like he talked then. Now, he's not talking that way because there's a new election coming on the scene. So all I'm saying is I got it out of his press release. If you don't believe in your Governor, forget about John Matijevich. I can't help you. But I happen to believe in your Governor and I'm going to support your Governor. Because I think he's got a good Amendment here. So I urge you to vote 'aye' in support of your Governor."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #5 to House Bill 741 be adopted?' All in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; all opposed by voting 'no'. The Gentleman from Wayne, Representative Robbins, to explain his vote."

"I think everyone should vote for John's Amendment. Anyone that can talk to God and no taller than he is say that he's Governor Thompson has to be right on this Amendment. And I..And he has the utter confidence of the Democrat party that the RTA can continue to run for over a year without any funds so let's see him do it."

"Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 40 voting 'yes', 91 voting 'no' and none voting 'present' and the Amendment is lost. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #6, Braun-Alexander, amends House Bill 741 and so forth."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Braun."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. They say that great minds think alike. Amendment #6 follows the tradition of Representative Matijevich and Representative Rea and others who have filed exemptions for home heating fuel. The jist of the Amendment..." 130  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"..Just a minute, Representative. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Sandquist."

"Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that we adopted Amendment #3, I question the germaneness of Amendment #6..."

"Mr..Representative Sandquist, I was going to withdraw the Amendment. You're welcome. Just let me finish and...move this right along, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to withdraw Amendment #6."

"Withdraw Amendment #6. Further Amendments?"

"Amendment #7, Braun-Alexander, amends House Bill 741 on page seven and so forth."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Braun."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is an anti-pass through Amendment. Adds a new penalty clause which makes violation of the pass th...anti-pass through provisions equal to 100 percent of the tax for the Calendar year in which the violation occurs. I encourage your support."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, this is the third Amendment on the same subject. We've defeated the first two and this ought to be defeated for the same reasons and I would urge every Member to vote 'no'."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Braun, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative Telcser, Representative Lechowicz just suggested that I tell you that repetition is the mother of learning so, it may well be that this third time around those of you who voted against previous anti-pass through Amendments may see the light of our approach, that this is a tax and should not be 131  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 unfairly borne by the citizens of the State of Illinois when the oil companies in the state who testified on this Amendment showed profit last year of some $25 billion in the Calendar year preceding. It seems only appropriate that they would carry this part of the tax as a part of their civic duty in providing for the transportation of the citizens of this state."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #7 to House Bill 741 be adopted'? All in favor will signify by saying 'aye'; all opposed by saying 'no'. And the 'nos' have it and the Amendment is lost. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #8, Wikoff, amends House Bill 741 on page twelve and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Wikoff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House Amendment #8 is one which I think those of us who have been concerned about the road program..."

"Just a minute, Representative Wikoff. The Lady from Cook, Representative Braun."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I requested a Roll Call on that vote. I am not being...trying to tie up this House, but I think in all fairness, in all fairness for those of us who sat 13 hours yesterday and watched the Bill get gutted, all of those who have sat through all of these Amendments knowing full well that this package is doomed to be an abortion, that we get a Roll Call on a good Amendment like this one. I ask for a Roll Call...."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."

"I would make the point of order first, Mr. Speaker, that the Lady's request is out of order. The Chair has already announced the result on Amendment #7 and too, the 132  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 further point of order that the Lady's simply being dilatory. This is the third time we've voted on the same thing. It was clear in light of the..the oral Roll Call..the oral vote what the result was and she's simply being dilatory. I think she's out of order."

"I think your point is well taken, Representative. Proceed, Representative Wikoff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House Amendment #8 is one which is, I think, will be of great interest to the downstate people, particularly those who are concerned about the road program. This is one which has been placed on at my request because many of us were quite concerned about the funding of the road program..."

"Just a minute, Mr. Johnson (sic). Representative Lechowicz, do you seek recognition?"

"Mr. Speaker, I yield my time to Mrs. Braun."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Braun."

"Thank you very much, Representative Lechowicz. Mr. Speaker, I'm not given to yelling, but it seems to me that given all the machinations that we've been through, it is no more than a simple courtesy to any Member to get a Roll Call on any Amendment attached to this Bill, particularly in the shape that it's in. Now, last night when I objected to Amendment 28, you cut my microphone off and that objection just went by as you..as you recorded a voice vote on an Amendment that killed the entire package or changed the entire package. I think, Mr. Speaker, under the circumstances, given the bizarre procedural manner in which we have approached this entire subject, that you would allow me the courtesy as you would any other Member of a Roll Call. I had requested a Roll Call before you declared the results. Unlike Representative Johnson's objection, the request was properly made and made in a timely fashion. 133  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 And Mr. Speaker, I believe it is my prerogative under the Rules to get a Roll Call on this Amendment."

"Well, I ruled that out of order, Representative Braun. Proceed, Representative Wikoff."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker, this Amendment is one which I had placed on many of us are quite concerned about the funding for the road program. What this does, we are very concerned that after mass transit gets all of the money they need, there's not going to be anything left for the road program. It basically says that the Treasurer shall transfer from the gross receipts tax fund to the road program 70% of the amount determined by subtracting from the total amount of monies deposited, that would give 30% to mass transit and 70% to the road program, and I believe that is fair for anyone who is concerned about the road program."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Getty."

"Mr. Speaker, in view of the adoption Amendment #1 which inserts something after line 23, I would suggest that Amendment #8 which attempts to insert something after line 23 would not now be in order."

"Your point is well taken, Representative Getty and your Amendment is out of order, Representative Wikoff. Further Amendments?"

"Amendment #9, Rea-John Dunn, amends House Bill 741 on page 7 and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Franklin, Representative Rea."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, I want to give you an opportunity vote for this Amendment since we've had...it has presented, there has been debate on it but in terms of the passed through Amendment, I would ask for a favorable Roll Call on this Amendment."

"Is there any discussion on the Gentleman's 134  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Amendment? The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."

"Well, you know I was going to make the point of order that it is dilatory, let's just vote it up or done. It's the fifth time we voted on it, how many other times to do we got to vote on it tonight?"

"Do you care close, Representative Rea?"

"Mr. Speaker, yes I think that this is a very important Amendment and that we should not hide behind...it been non...of it not being constitutional. That we should let this be determined in the courts and I would ask for a Roll Call vote."

"Question is, 'Shall Amendment #9 to House Bill 741 be adopted?' All those in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'nos' have it and the Amendment is lost. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #10, Slape-Breslin, amends House Bill 741 on page two, line 15 and so forth."

"The Lady from LaSalle, Representative Breslin. On Amendment #10."

"Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe you didn't hear Representative Rea, he asked for a Roll Call vote."

"Representative Rea, for what purpose do you arise?"

"Mr. Speaker, I did very clearly ask for a Roll Call vote, and I am asking for it at the present time."

"Well, I'm going to rule that out of order, Representative. Representative Lechowicz."

"Mr. Speaker, in all fairness the Gentleman did request a Roll Call vote, he was totally in order. Maybe you did not hear him at the time but I think it's in the prerogative of the Chair to revert back to Amendment #9 and the Gentleman very briefly explained the Amendment so we 135  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 can adopt the Amendment either yes or no on the Roll Call vote. In all fairness Mr. Speaker, he's entitled to that, and I believe if you go back and check the record, it's quite clear that he asked for a Roll Call vote."

"Representative Rea, I'm going to give you an opportunity for a Roll Call. This is the fifth time that we've had a Roll Call on this Amendment and if you persist in your Roll Call, Mr. Clerk what was the Amendment that Mr. Rea had?"

"Amendment #9."

"Question is, 'Shall Amendment #9 to House Bill 741 be adopted?' All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Conti."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, in lieu of what we have witnessed here in the last half hour and 45 minutes and I'm surprised that some of the people that were taken in last night by their Minority Leaders that they are putting up with this. I hope that some of you can understand why I introduced Amendment 28. I don't know what they are scheme is, I don't know what their plan is but I've ever seen anything that was dilatory in making this group look silly tonight with the people in the audience and those people sitting in the press box, I just hate to go home this weekend and read the press releases."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, the previous speaker made references to the Minority Leadership and to that Gentleman I say, that the Members on this side of the aisle are simply pursuing their rights and obligations as Members of this Legislative Body. Under the procedures of legislative process this is the procedure, this Gentleman has an Amendment, he's asked for a Roll Call vote, the rules provide that he's entitled 136  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 to the Roll Call vote, and Mr. Speaker, it is now 11:30, we've debated this Bill and other Bills like this since 7:00, quite clearly we'll either be here until three or four in the morning or we can come back tomorrow. So, I would respectfully suggest to you, Sir, that we can accomplish everything that you'll attempt to accomplish tonight sometime tomorrow, and that we should adjourn right now and go home."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 70 voting 'aye', 72 voting 'no' and 4 voting 'present'. Do you seek recognition, Representative Dunn?"

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am a co-Sponsor of this Amendment and I didn't want the principal Sponsor ignored. I think he has a request to make of the Speaker before the Roll Call is announced on this Amendment."

"Are you the principal Sponsor Representative Rea?"

"Mr. Speaker..."

"Do you have a request?"

"Yes."

"What is it?"

"Poll the Absentees."

"Poll the Absentees, Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of the Absentees. Barnes. Bartulis. Bluthardt. Brummer. Capparelli. Carey. Deuster. Yourell. Flinn. Virginia Frederick. Giglio. Hallstrom. Huff. Jaffe. Karpiel. Kucharski. Madigan. Martire. McAuliffe. McMaster. Oblinger. Peters. Pouncey. Redmond. Reed. Reilly. Rhem. Richmond. Stearney. E.G. Steele. And Stuffle."

"Have you completed the Poll of the Absentees, Mr. Clerk?"

"Concluded the Poll of the Absentees." 137  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Pouncey."

"Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to vote 'aye' on this Bill, please."

"Record the Gentleman's 'aye'. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Rhem."

"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to vote 'aye' on this Bill, too."

"Record the Gentleman as 'aye'. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Pechous."

"Am I on? Yes, Mr. Speaker how am I recorded?"

"How's the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'no'."

"Would you please change that to 'aye'?"

"Change him to 'aye'. Do you seek recognition, Representative Levin? Oh, you speak for Representative Bowman, is that it? Representative Bowman?"

"I wish to be recorded as 'aye' on this. Thank you."

"Record the Gentleman as 'aye'. The Lady from DuPage, Representative Karpiel."

"Please, vote me 'no', Mr. Speaker."

"Record the Lady as 'no'. The Lady from DuPage, Representative Fawell."

"Point of order. I believe that's the correct term. I've been watching Mr. Giorgi vote all evening and my understanding is Mr. Giorgi is in a car on the way home and I would like to see Mr. Giorgi either produce or his vote taken off."

"The Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson."

"Mr. Speaker, if this should get the requisite number of votes, I'd like to request a verification."

"The Gentleman from Knox, Representative McMaster."

"Please record me as 'no'."

"Record the Gentleman as 'no'. The Gentleman from Jackson, Representative Richmond." 138  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Record me as 'aye', please."

"Record the Gentleman as 'aye'. The Gentleman from Macon, Representative Donovan. Record the Gentleman as 'aye'. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Jaffe. Record the Gentleman as 'aye'. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lechowicz, do you seek recognition?"

"Just want to make sure I am recorded as 'aye', Mr. Speaker."

"How's the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"You are recorded as voting 'aye', Representative Lechowicz. That the way you want to be recorded? Record the Gentleman as 'aye'. The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson. The Gentleman from Franklin, Representative Rea do you seek recognition?"

"Mr. Speaker, what is the count?"

"Well, if we got all the changes, I'll tell you in a minute. There are 77 'aye' and 73 'no' and 4 voting 'present', Representative Rea, did you wish to change your vote?"

"No, Sir. I will accept that Mr. Speaker."

"The Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson."

"Request a verification, Mr. Speaker."

"Representative Peters, 'no'. Representative Reilly, 'no'. Representative Rea."

"At the proper time, I would like to call for a verification of the negative vote."

"Are there any other changes before we proceed, any additions or deletions? Representative Kornowicz, do you seek recognition? Go to your mic, Representative I can't hear you. Do you seek recognition, Representative Kornowicz? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hoffman." 139  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, in light of the duel request for verification, I would suggest that might be more expeditious if we just dumped this Roll Call and just have people who are here vote, just have people who are here vote and get this over with."

"Your request is not timely. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Ewell."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, I look over there and I see my colleagues nailed to the cross. It's tough, I can't bear it, but since...since you're in the cause of righteousness, I'm going to join you and vote 'no'."

"Representative Kornowicz, your light is on, do you seek recognition? House Bill 111 is not up at this time, Representative."

"How am I verified...verified?"

"How are you verified?"

"Yes."

"How is the Gentleman verified?"

"I want a leave to be verified, please."

"Your request is not timely, Representative. Now, are there any further changes? On this question there are 77 voting 'yes', 76 voting 'no' and 4 still voting 'present'. No, that's wrong, 3 voting 'present'. The Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson has asked for a Poll...a verification of the positive vote, would you call the roll?"

"Poll of the Affirmative. Abramson. Alexander. Balanoff. Bowman. Bradley. Braun. Breslin. Bullock. Chapman. Christensen. Currie. Darrow. DiPrima. Domico. Donovan. Doyle. John Dunn. Farley. Garmisa. Getty. Giorgi. Greiman. Hanahan. Hannig. Henry. Hoxsey. Jaffe. Jones. Kane. Keane."

"Excuse me just a minute, Mr. Clerk. 140  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Representative Peters, in the Chair."

"Third Reading. Continue with the Poll of the Affirmative."

"Keane. Dick Kelly."

"Excuse me, the Gentleman from DuPage."

"Where's the real Speaker?"

"Continue with the Poll."

"Kornowicz. Kosinski. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. Lechowicz. Leon. Leverenz. Levin. Matijevich. Mautino. McClain. McGrew. McPike. Mulcahey. Murphy. O'Brien. O'Connell. Ozella. Pechous. Pouncey. Preston. Rea. Rhem. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Schneider. Schraeder. Slape. Margaret. Smith. Stanley. Steczo. Stewart. Terzich. Turner. VanDuyne. Vitek. White. Winchester. Sam Wolf. Younge. Yourell. Zito. Zwick."

"77 'aye', 76 'no'. Does the Gentleman have any questions of the Affirmative?"

"...Yes, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed."

"Mrs. Balanoff."

"Mrs. Balanoff, she in the chamber? How is she voted?"

"The Lady is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"The Lady is here."

"Representative Bradley?"

"Representative Bradley, is he in the chamber? How is he voted?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove the Gentleman."

"Representative Christensen."

"Representative Christensen in the chamber? How's he voted?" 141  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove the Gentleman."

"Representative Darrow."

"Representative Darrow in the chamber? He's here."

"Representative Donovan?"

"Representative Donovan in the chamber? How's the Gentleman voted?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove the Gentleman."

"Representative Farley?"

"Representative Farley in the chamber? How's the Gentleman voted?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove the Gentleman."

"Representative Garmisa."

"Representative Garmisa in the chamber? How's the Gentleman voted?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Representative Garmisa is here and return Representative Farley to the Roll. The Gentleman have any further questions?"

"Representative Giorgi?"

"Representative Giorgi? Gentleman in the chamber? How's he voted? Remove the Gentleman."

"Representative Ronan?"

"Representative Ronan in the chamber? He's here."

"Representative Slape?"

"Representative Slape? He's here."

"Representative Steczo?"

"Representative Steczo is in his seat."

"Representative White?" 142  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Representative White is in his seat."

"Representative Younge?"

"Representative Younge? Is the Lady in the chamber? How is she recorded?"

"The Lady is recorded..."

"Remove the Lady."

"Representative Abramson?"

"Representative Abramson in the chamber? How's the Gentleman recorded?"

"'Aye'."

"Remove the Gentleman."

"Representative Stanley?"

"Representative Stanley in the chamber? How's the Gentleman recorded?"

"'Aye'."

"Remove the Gentleman. Any more questions, Mr. Vinson?"

"Representative Terzich?"

"Representative Terzich, he's in the chamber. Mr. Donovan has returned. Return him to the Roll Call."

"Representative Braun?"

"Representative Braun is in the chamber."

"No further questions."

"Mr. Clerk, what is the count? Representative Jones do you seek recognition?"

"How am I recorded, Mr. Speaker?"

"How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Good, I want to keep them on the cross."

"Thank you. Representative Rea?"

"What's the count now?"

"For what purpose do you rise, Representative Rea?" 143  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"For the count."

"I'm...the Clerk hasn't tallied it yet. Any other questions? Any other questions? Anyone else want to change? Representative Rea?"

"I do want to verify the negative."

"You want to verify the negative?"

"Yes."

"The Gentleman wishes to verify the negative."

"Could I have the count first, Mr. Speaker?"

"71 'aye', 76 'no'. Mr. Clerk, read the negative."

"Ackerman. Alstat. Barkhausen. Beatty. Bell. Bianco. Birkinbine. Boucek. Bower. Catania. Collins. Conti. Cullerton. Daniels. Davis. Deuchler."

"Did you...yes, Sir?"

"Could we have them to raise their hand and speed up a little?"

"Yes, Representative Davis would you raise your hand, please. Thank you. Continue, Mr. Clerk."

"Jack Dunn. Ralph Dunn. Ebbesen. Epton. Ewell. Ewing. Fawell. Findley. Dwight Friedrich. Griffin. Grossi. Hallock. Hastert. Hoffman. Hudson. Huskey. Jackson. Johnson. Karpiel. Jim Kelley. Klemm. Kociolko. Koehler. Kustra. Leinenweber. MacDonald. Margulas. Mays. McBroom. McCourt. McCormick. McMaster. Ted Meyer. R.J. Meyer. Miller. Neff. Nelson. Peters. Piel. Polk. Pullen. Reilly. Rigney. Robbins. Ropp. Sandquist. Schuneman. Irv Smith. C.M. Stiehl. Swanstrom. Tate. Telcser. Topinka. Tuerk. Vinson. Watson. Hikoff. J.J. Wolf. Woodyard. And Mr. Speaker."

"Any questions of the negative? Representative Rea?"

"Mr. Speaker, is the Speaker here, Mr. Ryan?" 144  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"He'll be out shortly."

"Ackerman?"

"Ackerman is here. Ackerman is here, he's in back."

"Beatty?"

"Representative Beatty is here."

"Boucek?"

"Representative Boucek is here."

"Birkinbine?"

"Representative Birkinbine is here."

"Hallock?"

"Representative Hallock is here."

"J.J. Wolf?"

"Representative Wolf, J. J. Wolf in the rear."

"Hudson?"

"Representative Hudson? Representative Hudson is here."

"Karpiel?"

"Representative Karpiel is in her seat."

"Leinenweber?"

"Representative Leinenweber? Representative Leinenweber in the chamber? How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'no'."

"Remove the Gentleman. Any other questions?"

"Schuneman?"

"Representative Schuneman? He's in his seat."

"McMaster?"

"Representative McMaster is in his seat."

"Meyer?"

"Meyer, Representative Meyer, Ted Meyer? In the rear."

"Miller?" 145  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Representative Miller? He's here."

"Piel?"

"Representative Piel is in his seat."

"Pullen?"

"Representative Pullen? Is Representative Pullen in the chamber?"

"Yes, she's in the rear. Jackson?"

"Representative Jackson is in his seat."

"Mr. Speaker, no other questions of the...."

"There are 71 voting 'aye', 75 voting 'nay'. The Amendment is lost. Amendment #10."

"Amendment #10, Slape-Breslin, amends House Bill 741 on page two and so forth."

"Representative Slape."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, but with the adoption of Amendment #3, this Amendment is not dilatory and Representative Breslin and I would withdraw it."

"Representative Slape withdraws Amendment #10, any further Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #11, Schraeder..."

"Amendment #11, read the Amendment."

"...Amends House Bill 741 on page two and so forth."

"Representative Schraeder, Amendment #11."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this is a very serious Amendment. I'd like to preface my remarks by saying that the last two weeks we've heard testimony from many people. We've had many Amendments introduced, and for those Freshmans who are serving for the first time, going through the charades of this type of legislation, let them aware that what we've done has been futile. That what we've done, means nothing. That the real test will come some days in the future. After this Bill is up and down the ladder a few times, and we've voted many times on the 146  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 many issues, it will then go to the Senate and the same charade will take place in the Senate and then low and behold after they've spent hours and days..."

"Representative Schraeder in all due respect, would you please confine yourself to the Amendment?"

"Mr. Speaker, I'm speaking to the Amendment and if you don't want me to speak, I'll shutup, but I...give me the courtesy, I've sat here like everybody else for two weeks and if I can't speak on the Amendment then this is not the Legislative Body that I thought it was."

"Please proceed to speak to the Amendment, Mr. Schraeder."

"These Amendments will go to the Senate if they're passed. This Amendment is an important Amendment in that it brings about the total taxes being raised by this piece of legislation. It is my intent to pass this Amendment so that the Senate as well as the Governor will know the feelings of the House of Representatives in terms of total taxing authority for these groups. The Governor's proposing five percent, this Amendment goes to reduce that to three percent, and Ladies and Gentlemen, if you want to have any input in this Bill, if you want to protect your constituents, you would support this Amendment, and we've been unable to reduce the heating fuels and all the other special provisions that we've asked. The only alternative we have now is to reduce the rate of taxation. It seems to me that the three percent is an adequate amount of tax to be charged to our constituency, not to the oil companies, and I would ask for an 'aye' vote to reduce this from five percent to three percent, and I would ask Mr. Speaker for a Roll Call vote."

"A Roll Call vote. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser." 147  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, clearly Amendment #11 would not provide the necessary number of dollars in order to fund the problems with which we are trying to deal. I think the Ewing Committee has clearly proved that fact. This was a legislative Committee, consisting of Members on both sides of the aisle who went to the various transportation authorities to seek out the facts. They substantiated the financial needs of the transportation system in the Northern part of the state and those facts are undeniable. Putting those needs along side of the necessary repairs, maintenance, and construction of our highway program, clearly, clearly sets forth the amount of money necessary to move forward with the rational, long term solution to both the needs of mass transportation and for our highways. Amendment #11 would reduce from five percent down to three percent the amount of tax which would be imposed on oil products. This would be a devastating blow to the tax. If we were to pass the tax at the three percent level, we would simply have to come back again and raise it. We'd be back in this Assembly just as we are tonight at some future date in the not to distant future by the way, and find ourselves in the same political dilemma. If we're going to impose a new revenue source, we ought to do it at a level that provides funding for the distant future so we can reliably depend on long term programs and long term planning. Being short sighted only puts us in the same political dilemma in the very near future. If you're going to vote for a tax, vote for enough to solve the problem. Amendment #11 in effect, cuts the heart out of the program and will create a very, very immediate shortfall in the yield that is necessary to implement this program. I suggest we vote no."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative 148  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Lechowicz."

"Mr. Speaker, I would like to be recognized after this Amendment is either adopted or defeated."

"Representative Mautino. The Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is probably one of the most important Amendments we are going to be recorded on this evening and it's probably quirk of fate that we're going to be calling this right at the end of April Fool's Day because I think what we've gone through is quite a practice on this national day, and specifically, really April Fool's Day in Illinois. You know I, it seems to me that people forget that on November 4th, they're supposed to be an austerity program in the State of Illinois, and we've been talking about tax increases, tax increases that are going to bring in a lot more money then what is needed for any program that could possibly be put into effect before 1982. It is really April Fool's Day, and if you want to do something to justify the last 48 hours of what we've been doing in Springfield, you might as well vote for the only tax reduction provision that you're going to see in this whole package. That doesn't mean that anybody is going to be supporting the end product, but it's time for everybody to get on the board and vote for a tax decrease if one is to be enacted. I stand in support of this legislation on April Fool's Day."

"The Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Schraeder to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, I would reiterate this is the only opportunity you're going to get to reduce this tax. It's a tax on the consumer, your constituency. The Governor has said in his message to us 149  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 that over the period of fiscal...'83 there will be over a billion dollars raised. I would take my chances with the voters two years from now with a tax increase but no, the Governor wants it all now. He wants it out of the way so it's not a political issue when he seeks his Governorship later on. I say the Governor is all wet, he's making a mockery of his petition system that he had two years ago, and I think we ought to tell the Governor very clearly that he's being unfair, he's being, if you want to call it, lying, that's a little strong, perhaps misleading for sure, but if we want to be fair with the people we will reduce this from five percent to three percent."

"The Gentleman from Peoria submits Amendment 11 and has asked for a Roll Call vote. Are there four Members who'll join him in asking for that Roll Call? Let the record show that there are. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Mr. Clerk, open the record. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wished? Have all voted who wished? Does anyone want to change their mind? Additions, subtractions? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Amendment there are 63 voting 'aye', 65 voting 'no'. The Amendment is lost. Representative Schraeder?"

"You're pretty good with a fast gavel, too, Mr. Speaker..."

"I haven't touched a gavel yet, Representative Schraeder. This is a virgin voyage on my part."

"You're doing excellent for a virgin voyage. May I have the Absentees polled?"

"Well, Mr. Clerk, read the Absentees. Quickly."

"Poll of the Absentees. Alstat. Balanoff. Barnes. Bartulis. Beatty..."

"Representative Beatty votes 'aye'." 150  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Bluthardt. Bower."

"Representative Bower votes 'no'."

"Bradley. Bullock."

"Representative Bullock votes 'aye'."

"Capparelli. Carey. Deuster. Donovan. Ralph Dunn."

"Representative Ralph Dunn votes 'no'."

"Ewell. Farley. Dwight Friedrich."

"Representative Dwight Friedrich votes 'no'."

"Giorgi. Hallstrom. Huff. Jackson."

"Representative Jackson votes 'no'."

"Karpiel."

"Representative Karpiel votes 'no'."

"Kosinski. Madigan. Martire. Matijevich. McAuliffe. McClain."

"Representative McClain did I hear...Representative McClain votes 'no'."

"Meyer."

"Representative Meyer votes 'no'."

"Oblinger. Pierce. Pouncey. Reed. Rhem. Ropp."

"Representative Ropp votes 'no'."

"Stearney. E.G. Steele. Stuffle. Swanstrom."

"Representative Swanstrom votes 'no'."

"Topinka."

"Representative Topinka votes 'no'."

"Watson."

"Representative Watson, I'm sorry, no, I'm sorry it's Collins, go ahead."

"Winchester."

"Representative Winchester votes 'no'."

"J.J. Wolf. And Younge."

"Representative Wolf votes 'no'. Mrs. Balanoff votes 'aye'. Any other additions or changes? On this 151  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Amendment the vote is 66 'aye', 78 'no' and the Amendment fails. Any further Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"Amendment #12, Johnson-Wikoff, amends House Bill 741 on page 12 and so forth."

"Representative Lechowicz for what purpose do you rise?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker to protect your virginity, I move the House stand adjourned until tomorrow morning at 11:00."

"You weren't recognized for that purpose, Mr. Lechowicz. Thank you. Representative Johnson, Amendment 12."

"I would withdraw Amendment #12."

"Amendment #12 is withdrawn. Any further Motions(sic), Mr. Clerk?"

"Amendment #13, Hallock."

"Amendment #13."

"Amends House Bill 741 on page 12 and so forth."

"Amendment #13. Representative Hallock, Amendment #13."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I'd ask to withdraw Amendment #13, please."

"Amendment #13 is withdrawn. Any further Amendments?"

"Amendment #14, Wikoff-Johnson-Vinson..."

"Amendment #14, Mr. Wikoff."

"Amends House Bill 741 on page one and so forth."

"Mr. Speaker, I'd ask to withdraw Amendment #14."

"Amendment #14 is withdrawn. Any further Amendments?"

"Amendment #15, Zwick, amends House Bill 741 on..."

"Representative Zwick, Amendment #15. Representative Zwick withdraws Amendment #15. Any further Amendments?" 152  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Amendment #16..."

"Amendment #16."

"Ropp-Ewing, amends House Bill..."

"Representative Ropp."

"Mr. Speaker, thank you Members of the House. This particular proposal is an interesting one that the Governor is proposing, and in the...I know the Governor wants to be fair in all respects, and this particular Amendment assures equity in this total tax proposal. It is not considered an exemption, it's provided for equity. It provides for a three percent abatement to farmers for purchase of petroleum products. It is a Amendment that will guarantee equity in no way to the rural community want to pay an unfair portion of this tax. What this does..."

"Representative, Representative Ropp offers Amendment #16, anyone on the Motion? All those in favor will vote 'aye', all those opposed will vote 'no'. Any...anyone wish to be added to the Roll Call, change from the Roll Call? Someone wishes to explain their vote? Representative Ropp, did I interrupt you?"

"Not really, in the Republican staff analysis it does say five percent that is an error and in the Amendment it does say three and I think that is a fair proposal. It provides for equity, and I think that's what we're really interested in, in this whole Bill. I welcome your support."

"Representative Cullerton."

"Would the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Well, I think we're on explanation of votes, Representative Brummer. I'm sorry, Representative Cullerton."

"Is it locked? Is the vote locked?"

"Do you wish to explain your vote, Representative?" 153  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"No, I wanted to ask him a question, if the votes not locked, it's..."

"We're too late for that, Representative."

"Alright, well then I'll ask...I'll explain my vote. Representative Ropp, I didn't understand your explanation. I do recall last year you had some Bill to send somebody down to South America to view the possibility of selling Illinois corn, and I just wondered if this Amendment had anything to do with that...that proposition, and maybe perhaps, in explanation of your vote you can answer my question."

"Representative Brummer, do you wish to be recognized?"

"You got to question him."

"We're past that Representative Brummer. We..."

"Well, I had my light on before the Roll Call was ever taken, wanting to ask questions of the Sponsor. I was also requesting order, there was a little disorder in this area for some reason, and I couldn't understand all of the explanation that Representative Ropp gave concerning the Amendment, and I think this is a very important Amendment to the agricultural community, and I would respectfully ask the Chair to allow the Sponsor to respond to various questions concerning this very important Amendment."

"Representative MacDonald."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise on a point of order because I don't recall that Amendment 15 by Representative Zwick was tabled or asked to be taken out of the record. I wondered, are we in order, or can Representative Zwick respond to that?"

"Representative Zwick, as we went through the Amendments, and I looked over I thought I got a signal in your eye that you were withdrawing the Amendment. Is that 154  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 not true?"

"No..I did know my eyes were that effective. I would like to present the Amendment if I might, please?"

"Evidently I caught the wrong signal. We'll get back to you. Representative Ropp, for what purpose do you stand?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I was going to answer Representative Cullerton's question."

"Well...well, let...let me...let me get down to the people here who want to explain their votes. We'll start with...in the back with Representative Kulas."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to explain my 'no' vote. In all respect to the Sponsor of the Amendment, I'm afraid I didn't hear the Amendment so without hearing the Amendment I couldn't really make a valid vote. Now, there are people on this side of the aisle, Mr. Speaker, who are trying to catch your attention. Now, I thought that Rapid-Ryan, the galloping gavel from Kankakee was deaf but you obviously need two hearing-aids, Mr. Speaker because people are trying to catch your attention for five minutes, and I couldn't hear the explanation of the Bill, and that's why I'm voting 'no' on the Amendment."

"Representative Kulas, you forget we are both in the same Democratic organization together. Representative Bullock."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. You know when you went to the podium and said that you were on your virgin voyage, I did not know that that was an endangered species that you were a blind virgin on a voyage. Our Minority Leader has attempted to get your attention for some time and I'm sure that you know that he's attempted to get that. I've sat here and watched his light, and I think that you certainly are disgracing 155  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 yourself, of course you probably have been cloned appropriately for that seat. I think that you should recognize the Minority Leader. He is trying to get your attention to add to the debate..."

"Excuse me, excuse me, Mr. Bullock..."

"...And until we hear from my Minority Leader, I can't vote on this Bill."

"Representative Karpiel, for what purpose do you arise?"

"For point of order, Mr. Speaker. Aren't we on an explanation of votes?"

"Your point is well taken. Representative Jones."

"Yes, thank you Mr. Speaker. This is a very important issue and I am concerned about the Sponsor of this Amendment. I must pull a page out of my good friend, Representative Epton's book. I am a urban farmer but as Representative Epton always said, I will vote my conscience on this issue, and I will vote 'no' because I do have a conflict of interest."

"The Representative from...Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, Mr. Bullock made some good points. From my experience with you in this Body for several years, you've always prided yourself on your fairness to your fellow Members. Now, you full well know I've been seeking recognition through two Amendments. You know why I'm seeking recognition and you've just decided you're not going to recognize me. If that's your...if that is your choice, Sir, if that is the record you wish to establish. So be it. I want to make some points to you and to Mr. Telcser and to Mr. Ryan, if with...if he's on the floor or if he can hear. We've now gone into..."

"Representative Piel, what's your point?" 156  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"You did tell Representative Karpiel a minute ago that we were explaining votes when we weren't talking about personalities. I thought we were explaining votes."

"You're...you're correct. Representative Madigan, perhaps we should deal with this Amendment and then we can get to whatever statement you want to put into the record. Okay? Any other explanation of votes, on this Amendment? Representative Hannig?"

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just a parliamentary inquiry. Since the voting is open on this Amendment, it maybe at your discretion, you may want to dump this Roll Call and go back to the Amendment offered by Representative Zwick."

"I..I would end up admitting that were a number of Amendments that we had listed here that were to be withdrawn. I had no intention of passing up Mrs....Representative Zwick. I did, truthfully, believe that she wanted that Amendment withdrawn because she did withdraw two or three others earlier in the day and we did get to Representative Zwick...to Representative Ropp. If the Majority Leader and the Minority Leader are of the opinion that we should return to Amendment #15 and dump this Roll Call, certainly we would end doing that if they would feel that that would be in the best interests of the Assembly and the presentation of the Amendment, here. Representative Telcser."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I think the Membership should have an opportunity to have their Amendments heard, and I know that you're sincere when you say that you inadvertantly passed over Amendment #15. I know you wouldn't say it if it weren't the truth, and I'd be delighted to back to 15 if that is the Gentleman's wish or if it's Representative Zwick's wish to go back. I may have a question or two 157  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 about it but a..."

"Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, I don't wish to participate in this discussion, if your question is the order of call of the Amendments, that's your duty as the presiding officer."

"Well, what I would like to do is to dump this Roll Call and go back and pick up because it was my fault, Mrs...Representative Zwick's Amendment but if it would raise objection from you, I certainly would want to respect your wishes as a Minority Leader. Representative Madigan."

"I have no position, I'm waiting for my opportunity to address a point of order to you."

"Alright, Mr. Clerk let us then dump this Roll Call. We go back to Amendment 15 and now..."

"Amendment #15, Zwick, amends House Bill 741 on page one, line two."

"...And before the Amendment...the Chair recognizes Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, we have now moved into the next Legislative Day. All of the Bills in the Governor's tax package have not yet been read on the Order of Third Reading. In order for those Bills to be called on the Order of Third Reading today, would require a suspension of rules, which would require 107 votes. So, for all practical purposes we have now established that we will work on Friday. In light of that, there's no need to continue in to the wee hours of the morning. Whatever can be accomplished at this time can be accomplished after a full night of sleep, so that the Members are well rested, understand the Amendments, and we don't endanger anyone's health. There's no good purpose to be served by staying here any longer. Mr. Lechowicz has already moved that we adjourn until 11:00 a.m. tomorrow morning, and I would 158  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 suggest to you, Sir, that it would be in the best interest of the entire Body to do precisely that."

"Representative Madigan, just in brief response, I have no word from the Speaker as to when we will return. The last word...the last word that I had is that we will be in Session on Thursday and there was no mention of us coming back on Friday. Representative Friedrich."

"Well, in response to the Minority Leader, I've kind of grown fond of Springfield, I like it around here and I think thanks to the people on the other side of the aisle, I think we can enjoy being here Friday, Saturday and maybe Sunday and we won't have to put up with our families, we can enjoy our friends here in Springfield and draw $36.00 a day. That's only costing the taxpayers $6,000 a day just for our perdiem and they've maneuvered us into this position so I think we ought to enjoy it and stay awhile longer."

"Amendment #15, Representative Zwick."

"Thank you, thank you Mr. Speaker. Amendment #15 is an Amendment to stop immediately all diversions out of the Road Fund. I introduced this Amendment because I believe in honesty government and I believe also that it's deceitful to take money out of the Road Fund which should be used only for the roads and use it for other things. I believe in accounting principles that the people of this State can understand so that they know what we're doing, and that we need a government that will be honest with the people and that the people can identify with and be proud of. And they should know where their money is going. That when money goes to the Road Fund, it should be used for the upkeep and construction of new roads, and I'd appreciate your consideration on this."

"Thank you. Representative Telcser." 159  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I rise to oppose Amendment #15. I know how sincere the Sponsor of Amendment #15 is, regarding what she wants to do, but Amendment #15 simply will not work given where we are today in State Government. Let me explain. If Amendment #15 becomes law, we couldn't use money for to be operated expenses for the Department of Transportation. We couldn't pay employees like highway maintainers, from DOT because that's where we get part of their...part of the funds from in order to pay the salaries for people like that. There are some functions that the Secretary of the State's Office has where they receive their funding from these particular funds, we would have to discontinue that. The traffic safety functions that we have in Illinois are taken from those funds, that would discontinue. I'm sure I can go on and on and on, and explain a number of functions which we participate in in State Government that are highway related and therefore, we take funds for those purposes. Now, the Sponsor of the Amendment may want to use the word diversion but I'd really think that that is an exaggeration of what most of the functions are for. The functions are clearly related to highway use, highway construction, highway maintenance and safety and I don't think any Member of the House wants to discontinue those functions. I urge a 'no' vote."

"Representative Getty."

"Mr. Speaker, I would question the germaneness of Amendment #15 and also suggest that it's violative of the Single Subject Constitutional Provisions."

"Representative Getty would you state your concern once again."

"I suggest that the Bill is not germane...that the Amendment #15 is not germane and that it's violative of 160  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Section...8D of the Constitution of the State of Illinois. The single subject, it attempts to repeal an Act that has nothing to do with the title of House Bill 741. Subject of the Bill is an Act in relation to a tax upon persons engaged in the business of selling petroleum products and this is an attempt to repeal an Act in relation to State Finance. It's certainly violative of the Single Subject Rule."

"Representative Polk, while we're waiting do you have an inquiry?"

"Just a question of the Sponsor, if I may, while we're waiting for your decision?"

"Proceed."

"Will you...the Sponsor answer a few questions?" Specifically, what would the cost of your program be in terms of revenue?"

"Well, I believe last year there was 130...well, let's see, this year there's 132 million dollars that is suppose to be diverted out of the Road Fund. Last year there was 170 million, in fact over the last five years if we had not diverted money out of there, there would have been about 800...at least 850 million more dollars that could have been spent on the roads so that we probably wouldn't be in the condition we're in now, in relation to roads."

"So, the point is, that two years ago, it was 170, this year it's 130, is that correct? So there has been a reduction over the past year, is that correct?"

"Right, and it's being phased out. Yes, I believe there was legislation passed, I don't know if it was passed last year or the year before, to phase it out over a four year period."

"And do you have exactly the departments that you would...that you would not fund?" 161  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Pardon me?"

"Do you have a list of the departments that you would not fund?"

"I have a list of the departments that are scheduled to be funded in the next four years. I'm afraid I don't have it with me though, it's in my office."

"Did you plan on then using General Revenue Funds to fund those departments?"

"Absolutely, I plan on using the funds from each department to fund those departments."

"And have you prepared legislation or would you prepare legislation to fund those out of General Revenue Funds?"

"Sure, I'd be happy to."

"And out of the supposedly 200 million we're going to have in reserve it would take approximately what then to fund those?"

"I'm sorry, could you repeat that, I didn't hear what you said?"

"Apparently you indicated it was going to run between 130 and 170 million dollars to fund those, and we have somewhere in the Governor's budget between 200 million and 250 million in what we consider to be excess that is if we do not put any additional funds in other line items. So, you would bringing the balance down to somewhat less than one day operating capital."

"Well, it wouldn't happen all of sudden, though, it would be...it would happen over a period of time, if we stopped the diversions now. If we cut some costs in each of those programs that would be affected, we would be able to do it."

"But singly your Amendment strikes them all without a phase out, it just simply says that they would...diversions must be stopped now." 162  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Right, right now."

"Representative Getty, it is the opinion of the Chair through the Parliamentarian that the Amendment is in order in that both the Legislation and the Amendment deal with Chapter 127 and a new Section is being added by Representative Zwick in her Amendment and that it is the opinion of the Chair that it is not violative of any constitutional situations. Any...any more discussion on the Bill...on the Amendment? Representative Leverenz." Leverenz; "Sponsor yield? Would...did I understand correctly that currently the...there is a program of phasing out the funding of certain parts of State Government from the Road Fund, currently on the books, is that correct?"

"Well, yes. There is currently a program that since I was a freshman and I wasn't here, I don't know exactly what it is. I have the figures at my office, but it is a four year phase out, of all diversions out of the Road Fund. I think if I remember correctly, it goes down by about probably, oh, let's see it was 170 last year, 132 this year, it probably goes down to about 180 in fiscal '83. I'm sorry, to about 100 million and then down to maybe 70 million, in that pattern over a period of four years."

"And what is the effective date on House Bill 741?"

"I...I believe that would be effective as soon as it was passed."

"Or signed by the Governor?"

"Right. I'm sorry, signed by the Governor."

"You would end all of those diversions at once?"

"Absolutely."

"Would you tell us who gets laid off, in what department and how many people would then have to be laid off for lack of money to pay them during that time?"

"I believe that is what we have department heads to 163  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 decide, that's why we pay them very nice salaries, to organize their departments to live within their budgets."

"What departments would end up having layoffs?"

"Well, I don't know if they would have layoffs, there are other places to cut besides layoffs. I believe the Department of Aeronautics would be affected, the Department of Law Enforcement would be affected, the Secretary of State and the..."

"How about the State Police?"

"Yes, the State Police Office."

"How many State Police would be laid off as a result of you ending the diversion from the Road Fund to pay for the State Police?"

"I don't think that's up to me to decide, that would be worked out between the appropriations..."

"You are deciding by introducing the Amendment and should it be adopted and signed by the Governor, yes you are deciding how many State Police will be laid off."

"No, I'm not. I'm just eliminating diversions out of the Road Fund."

"How many people in the Department of Transportation would be laid off due to you stopping the funds coming from the Road Fund to pay for those functions in the Department of Transportation?"

"First of all, it would be the General Assembly that was stopping it, not me alone and they would be doing it on behalf of the people of the State of Illinois, and second of all that would be up to Secretary Kramer, who is in charge of that department."

"There are certain line items that are budgeted specifically that are paid by the Road Fund, certainly with your explanation earlier you said that there was a phase out of those positions and I would ask you to understand 164  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 the wisdom of the General Assembly in that phase out process, and some of those things are being eliminated in the departments. Some are being being picked up in the normal, orderly budget process of paying for those functions out of General Revenue. I would suggest that you might withdraw the Amendment and leave the phase out program in effect or you should understand how many people if this Amendment is adopted, will be laid off especially if you're concerned roads, making sure they get fixed and your protection in terms of the State Police. You tell them they are going to be laid off, I'm not going to."

"Representative MacDonald."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise to commend Representative Zwick, who is a freshman Legislator to recognize the fact that long ago in this General Assembly a Motor Fuel Tax Fund was enacted, and when that fund was enacted there was to be no diversion and if it were not for a violation of the intent of that original plan, we would not be in the posture that we are in this evening, and in the dilemma of trying to pass an impossible dream. I think this Lady is indeed perceptive and I hope the people of her district realize how valuable she is in her perception in the General Assembly."

"There being no other Gentleman seeking recognition, all those in favor will signify, I'm sorry, Representative Zwick to close."

"Thank you. I would more than anything like to ask for your support in this. Particularly, I believe the downstate people have been asking for this for quite some time, in order to have a responsible road program, and I think that's what we've been addressing here for quite a few days, and I think it's about time that we took a serious step towards having a responsible road program. 165  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 And I would ask you for your support on this Amendment, and I'd also like to ask for a Roll Call vote. Thank you."

"Representative Fawell, your light is not working up here, did you want to speak to this? The electrician just informed me that your light is not working. You did not. All those in favor of Amendment...Representative Zwick, do you request a..?"

"Yes, a Roll Call, please."

"Representative Zwick requests a Oral Roll Call, are there four Members who join her? Are there four Members who join her? One-two-three-four. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', those opposed will vote 'no'. Representative Greiman, are you looking to explain your vote?"

"No, I'd like to be recog...I'd like to recognize the Minority Leader after you declare this vote and then..."

"Well, we'll get to that at some point. Have all voted who wished? Have all voted who wished? Have all voted who wished? Clerk, take the record. Representative Zwick has asked for a Poll of the Absentees. Pardon? No. Amendment #15 to House Bill 741, the vote is 57 'aye', 75 'nays'. Representative McGrew."

"Please record me as 'aye', I'm sorry."

"Record Representative McGrew 'aye'. On this vote there are 58 'ayes', 75 'nays'. Amendment 15 is hereby declared lost. Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, what is the intention of the Chair regarding the adjournment, and if you do not have information for us at this time, 26 Democrats have requested a Democratic Conference?"

"Is is...it is my last information, Representative Madigan that we will continue on until such time as the Amendments are acted upon by the General 166  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Assembly. This Assembly, if your...it is your intention to call for a Conference, you please let us know how much time you're going to need and we'll assign you a room. Representative Lechowicz."

"Mr. Speaker, is the Calendar correct, are we going to have Committee Hearings starting at 8:00 in the morning as far as Executive's concerned?"

"As far as the Calendar is concerned, that is correct."

"It is now 12:36, Sir. I think in all fairness to the Membership of this House, we are entitled to know how many more hours you expect us to serve here and return here at 8:00 or 7:00 as many of us do every morning, in reviewing the legislation, that's going to be on the respective Committee Schedules for that day. And I believe Mr. Madigan's Motion is absolutely in order and if you don't have an answer for him, we will definitely, seriously request a conference and I want you to recognize Greiman."

"I sympathize with your statements. My last word is, we will be in Session and the Chair recognizes Representative Greiman for a call for a Conference."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We will need about eight hours for that conference. Mr. Speaker, I have received the requisite number of requests from Members of the Democratic side in accordance to our rules and therefore, request an immediate confere...Democratic Conference."

"How much time will you require, Mr. Greiman?"

"About an hour an a half, I would guess and hour, it's a long Bill we've got a long of things to talk about. An hour an a half, I would think."

"Let's...it is now 12:36, let us assume by the time you get down there and confer on whatever you want to confer on, that we can be back here at 1:20." 167  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"That cuts it a little short, it's a long Bill, Mr. Speaker. There are a number of issues to be discussed."

"Room 118 to 1:30, how's that?"

"How about a quarter till two, I think that would give us the appropriate time?"

"Democratic Conference, Room 118 until 1:30. The House stands in recess until 1:30. Representative Madigan."

"At 1:30 there will be a request for a quorum call."

"Fine. The House is recessed until 1:30. I'll dim the lights, you can get a...The Clerk will need some time now, to read a few Bills."

"Introduction First Reading of House Bills. House Bill 928, Sandquist, et al, (sic). Introduction and First Reading of Bills. House Bill 978, Sandquist, et al, a Bill for an Act in relationship to weather modification, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 979, Currie-et al, a Bill in relationship to structural pest control to transfer regulation thereof to the Department of Public Health, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 980, Sandquist-et al, a Bill for an Act relating to the enforcement well construction codes, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 981, MacDonald, a Bill for an Act relating to Public Employee Unions, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 982, MacDonald, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Human Rights Act, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 983, Findley-et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Small Business Purchasing Act, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 984, Ronan, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act relating to alcoholic liquors, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 985, Peters-et al, a Bill for an Act relating to adoption, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 986, Barnes-et al, a 168  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981 Bill for an Act relating to Child and Family Welfare Services, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 987, McClain-et al, a Bill for an Act relating to the custody and guardianship under Juvenile Court Act, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 988, Ronan-et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Juvenile Court Act, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 989, Peters-et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Juvenile Court Act, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 990, Peters-et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act in relationship to adoption of persons, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 991, Keane, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Revenue Act, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 992, Balanoff, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act to regulate the practice of dental surgery in dentistry, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 993, Balanoff, a Bill for an Act to regulate the practice, denturitry in the State of Illinois, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 994, John Dunn-et al, a Bill for an Act in relationship to funding of drivers education, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 995, Margaret Smith, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Code of Criminal Procedures, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 996, Alexander, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Code of Criminal Procedure, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 997, Polk, a Bill for an Act to create the division of mentally ill and emotionally disturbed minors in the Department of Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities, First Reading of the Bill. The House will convene in five minutes. You are in the Chair."

"House will be in order and the Members will be in their seats. The Doorkeeper will clear all unauthorized persons from the floor. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser." 169  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 24th Legislative Day April 1, 1981

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, there are still a handful of Amendments filed to House Bills, 737 through 743. They are still on the Clerk's desk, I move that they all be tabled."

"The Gentleman's move that the...all the remaining Amendments on...which Bills, Representative?"

"All Bills, House Bills 737 through 743."

"Gentleman moves that all Amendments on House Bills 737 through 743 be tabled. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and those Amendments are tabled. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, I appreciate you moving those Bills to Third Reading."

"Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 737."

"They've all been read a second time, if you'll say Third Reading, they'll all be on..."

"Third Reading, on House Bills 737, 738, 739, 740, 741, 742, and 743. Third Reading."

"Mr. Speaker, I now move the House stand adjourned until 12:00 o'clock noon, Thursday, April 2."

"The Gentleman moves the House now stand adjourned until noon, tomorrow....today. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no', and the House now stands adjourned." 170