Illinois House Floor Debate — June 26, 1981

"Mr. Doorkeeper, would you turn the lights on please? The House will be in Order and the Members will be in their chairs. Be lead in prayer again this morning by the Reverend Worton from the Winnetka Bible Church.

Reverend Worton."

"I want to thank you for the privilege of leading you in prayer this week. I've gained a great respect for the legislative process and the work that you do. I would not have come to pray if I did not believe the scripture when it says that when we ask, we shall receive what we ask if we keep His commandments and do what is pleasing to Him. Let us pray. Almighty God, the Lover of our souls, we thank You for the sheparding which You provide to the sheep of Your pasture. And I would pray for these assembled Legislators and I pray for their souls. There are enemies of their souls and there is the risk of losing one soul and I pray, Oh, God, that not one man or woman here might experience that ultimate judgment of losing their soul. We thank You for the one who died for our souls, who paid the price of all sins, that through faith in Him we might have life. And I would pray that You would bring by Your grace this life to everyone here. I pray, Oh, God, that as they live their lives before their constituents and the people of the state and their families, that they would do so with moral integrity and I pray that they might be so exemplary in their lives that they would never disappoint those who love them, respect them and look up to them as Representatives in the government. I would pray, Lord, that as this summer recess comes, You would give them an opportunity to knit together their families once again, that You would refresh them, heal them, teach them, inspire them, make them ready for 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 the coming year. I pray that as they face the temptations, the many temptations, power, sex, money and ego, I pray that You would help them not yo be defeated by these temptations, but to be victorious by the power of God. Some among them are ill and I pray especially this morning for Representatives Margalus and Garmisa, and that You would restore them to health. We thank You for the good report of the Doorkeeper, Dan 'Efferin', that he's out of intensive care and we pray that You would restore him. And now, may the grace of our Lord, Jesus Christ in the comfort and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with all who work here today. And I ask it in Jesus Name, Amen."

"Representative Reed will lead the Pledge today."

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Roll Call for attendance. Take the Clerk, Mr...er..Take the record, Mr. Clerk. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye'. 172 Members answering the Roll. A Quorum of the House is present. Representative Beatty, for what purpose do you arise?"

"Mr. Speaker, I see that there is a Priority of Call list and the Members back in my Section don't seem to have a copy of it. If there is a Priority I think all the Members should have it. Is there some way we could get ahold of it?"

"As soon as they distribute them, Representative Beatty, they'll put one on your desk. On page one of the Calendar under the Order of Senate Bills, Third Reading, Short Debate, appears Senate Bill 697. Representative Wolf. Out of the record? Out of the record. Out of the record. Senate Bill 731, Representative White. Read the Bill." 2  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Senate Bill 731, a Bill for an Act in relationship to cycle rider safety training. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative White on Senate Bill 731."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Senate Bill 731 creates a special fund for the Cycle Riding Safety Fund to be used exclusively for the cycle riding safety program. At present there are five cycle riding centers in the State of Illinois and those centers are located in five of our state universities. This proposal would provide the State of Illinois with a Cycle Riding Safety Program without the aid or the assistance of the Federal Government. At present, those persons who use this program use it at taxpayers' expense. My proposal will put the burden of use on the person put....make it possible for those individuals who use the program to pay for it by way of a $4.00 increase in the registration fees for motorcycle, pedalcycle riders. Mr. Speaker?"

"Representative White."

"I move for the adoption of this Bill."

"Are there any discussion? No. Representative Friedrich."

"Would the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes."

"Where are these centers, Representative White? Outside of the metropolitan area?"

"They're located across the State of Illinois. They are in five zones."

"Where are they in southern Illinois?"

"They are as follows: Northern Illinois University that's at DeKalb; Northeastern which is in Chicago; Southern Illinois University at Carbondale; University of Illinois at Champaign; Illinois State University at Normal." 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Okay. Assuming I'm a cycle rider, what does this do for me?"

"Well, it puts you in a....if you would have participated in this program and graduate from it, then you will put yourself in a position number one to preserve your life and number two, the insurance industry has agreed to reduce the premium by ten percent for anyone who has successfully passed the course."

"Okay. The only comment I'd make, you say it's at no cost to the taxpayers. The guy that rides a motorcycle, it's a tax as far as he's concerned and he's a taxpayer and this is an additional tax."

"This is an additional tax, but it's placed right now on the person who participates in the course."

"Wouldn't you pay it though whether you took the course or not?"

"Well, let me move back a wee bit. The fee is when you register your motorcycle, your pedalcycle."

"So you pay it whether you take the course or not."

"That's right."

"Okay. Thank you."

"But again, there is a ten percent reduction on the premium when you apply for insurance. It's a one time only charge, yes."

"Is there any further discussion? Representative White to close."

"I move for the adoption of this Bill."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 731 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take..Representative Van Duyne, do you seek recognition? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 114 voting 'aye', 33 voting 'no', 3 voting 'present'. This 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 864, Representative Telcser. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk. Do you want the Bill read? Out of the record, Representative? Senate Bill 955, Representative Hoffman. Representative Hoffman, do you want your Bill called? Senate Bill 955."

"Senate Bill..."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Mr. Speaker, a procedural inquiry. Where ..Where are we on the issue of bringing Bills back to..from Third to Second Reading today for purposes of an Amendment?"

"Is that your desire?"

"Well, I just want to know. I don't want to run into a problem later on."

"What's your question, Representative? If you want to take this Bill back you're certainly entitled to."

"I guess...I guess the question is, is they're going...Last night, someone on the floor indicated that they would object to any Bill that had been taken from Third."

"No. I think the Minority Leader objected to two or three specific Bills that I don't recall what they were. I don't know if 955 is there or not."

"No, this isn't a particularly hot item. I'd like to take it back to Second."

"The Gentleman asks leave to return Senate Bill 955 to the Order of Second Reading. Are there any objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. Senate Bill 955 is now on the Order of Second Reading. Are there any Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #7, Hoffman, amends Senate Bill 955 as amended."

"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to withdraw that Amendment." 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"And move the Bill to Third Reading?"

"No, I..."

"Withdraw the Amendment. Further Amendments?"

"Amendment #8, Getty, amends Senate Bill 955 as amended."

"Representative Getty on Amendment #8. Representative Getty is not on the floor, Representative Hoffman. What's your pleasure?"

"Take Mr. Cullerton. They're going to withdraw that Amendment, too."

"Mr. Cullerton, are you a Cosponsor of this Amendment?"

"No, I'm not, Mr. Speaker. I..."

"For what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"I would ask leave to present the Amendment on behalf of Mr. Getty."

"The Gentleman asks leave to present the Amendment in behalf of Mr. Getty and there are objections, Representative Cullerton. Representative Hoffman."

"Mr. Speaker, I discussed this through Representative Schneider with Representative Getty yesterday and with the withdrawal of Amendment #7, he had agreed to withdraw Amendment #8. Will you withdraw it? Okay. Mr...I move to table Amendment #8."

"The Gentleman moves to table Amendment #8 to Senate Bill 955. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. And the Amendment is tabled. Further Amendments?"

"Amendment #9, Hoffman, amends Senate Bill 955..."

"Representative Hoffman, Amendment #9."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #9 was brought to be by the State Board of Education to correct an error which took place in 1979 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 in Enrolling and Engrossing and then later, Weth Publishing Company. Left a Section of the certification...Administrative Certification Act out. Amendment #9 puts that back in and also validates actions done by the State Board under the absent Act for the period of time covered after the passage in November of...er..the signing in November of 1979 of Public Act 81-1208. And I would ask for the adoption of Amendment #9."

"Is there any discussion? The question...The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #9 to Senate Bill 955. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments."

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 1119, Representative Sandquist. Representative Mautino?"

"I thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe Representative Sandquist could not be here this morning. He left a note on the desk that he asked me to handle the Bill for him. In that regard..."

"Yes. There's a Motion filed ..er..a request to have you handle the Bill, Representative. Are there any objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. Proceed, Representative Mautino on Senate Bill 1119."

"Senate Bill 1119, a Bill for an Act relating to alcoholic liquors. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1119 creates a new category of licensee for the distribution and sale of alcoholic liquors which is referred to as a nonresident dealer. This nonresident dealer license applies only to the actual manufacture of an alcoholic liquor sold to foreign importers or importing distributors, the two 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 classifications that are now in effect and the primary importer of such alcoholic liquor manufactured outside of the US or a duly registered agent of such manufacturer or importer. What that means is, there are three distributors in the inner city of Chicago is where this legislation affects. They have been distributing a product for one of the breweries for quite a few years and with this legislation, they will be allowed to continue and handle other products by that distributor, even though they had not been licensed as an importing distributor. That's what the legislation does and I would be happy to answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1119 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. Representative Mautino, Representative Sandquist ought to have you handle his Bills more often. On this question there are 157 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Tuerk, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, several days ago Senate Bill 1201 was on Short Debate. It was amended by Representative Keane and it was my understanding that that returned to Short Debate. However, because of a quirk in administrative duties within the Clerk's Office, it got on the Long Debate Calendar. I would like leave of the House to hear that Bill on Short Debate. I believe Representative Keane could corroborate my statements."

"Representative Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just agree with what the previous speaker said. He was gracious enough to bring the 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Bill back for an Amendment, a technical Amendment, a clarifying Amendment that I put on, that in no way changed the substance of the Bill. And it was not my intention to have it removed from Short Debate and I thought I had asked for leave to return it to Short Debate.."

"Mr. Clerk, did you make an error on this?"

"Mr. Speaker, we did check the transcript yesterday and I spoke with Representative Tuerk. We could find no instance in the transcript where leave was asked for and given."

"The Gentleman asks leave to return the Senate Bill 1201 to the Order of Short Debate, Third Reading. Are there any objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. Senate Bill 1201 will be returned to the Order of Short Debate, Third Reading. Senate Bill 1201, Representative Tuerk."

"Senate Bill 1201, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Tuerk."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House for your graciousness. I didn't mean to imply that that Clerk's Office made an error. I just mentioned that there was a little bit of a quirk. Apparently we were talking in soft tones that day when we asked leave and they didn't catch it. Actually this Bill is a noncontroversial Bill. It's a noncontroversial Amendment attached to the Bill. Last year, the Congress allowed and authorized loans to parents for students. In addition to the student loans, it authorized loans to parents on the basis that it could get an additional three thousand dollars a year in loans. It's a higher interest rate. This Bill just authorizes the State of Illinois to enter into that authorization. I would ask for your support." 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Any discussion? Any opposition? The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1201 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 158 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 955, Representative Hoffman. Read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 955, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Hoffman on Senate Bill 955."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 955 (sic, Senate Bill 955) now does three rather innocuous things. It takes care of the question of counting..."

"Representative Lechowicz, for what purpose do you arise?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I believe this is the same Bill that we just amended and unless he suspends the rules, the Gentleman is not going along by the rules of this House. Anyway I think he should just give us a little more time to make sure that we can digest that Amendment that was adopted."

"I didn't understand what you said, Representative."

"I believe the Gentleman just amended this Bill, Mr. Speaker, and I'm asking that he take the Bill out of the record at this time."

"Representative Hoffman? Out of the record. Representative Hoffman, do you seek recognition again?"

"I'm going to be involved early on and then I will sit down and behave myself. I would like to move to ...Well, I'm not sure about that.." 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Would you send the Clerk a notice with that please? Put it in writing so..."

"Put that in writing? Reduce it to writing. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to suspend the appropriate rule to consider House Bill 955 (sic, Senate Bill 955) now."

"The Gentleman moves to suspend the appropriate rule to hear..have Senate Bill 955 heard immediately. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed. Representative Lechowicz?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. He needs a Roll Call. He's needs 107 votes. We don't object to the Gentleman's Motion, but he's asking that the Bill be heard at this time, which was amended today. So I ask leave to suspend the appropriate rule to have Senate Bill 955 heard as amended."

"The Gentleman asks leave to suspend the appropriate rules to have Senate Bill 93..955 heard? Are there any objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. Senate Bill 955, Representative Hoffman. Try again. Representative Lechowicz?"

"Mr. Speaker, he has to have leave to use the Attendance Roll Call or receive 107 votes."

"Well, he got leave, Representative..."

"...Use the Attendance Roll Call..."

"I asked if there were any objections and there were none."

"Then you're using the Attendance Roll Call."

"...Nobody objected."

"I'm not objecting, but it should either have a Roll Call or use the Attendance Roll Call to grant the Gentleman's wish."

"The Gentleman asks leave to use the Attendance Roll Call to have Senate Bill 955 heard on the Order of 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Third Reading. Is that what you want, Representative? Are there any objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. Third Reading on Senate Bill 955. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 955, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I appreciate everyone's indulgence. Amendment #1 to this Bill provided for the counting of foreign exchange and nonresident students by a local school district for state aid if the program that they were involved in was approved by the State Board of Education and there was some reciprocation of services by that ...by any other cultural exchange organization. Amendment #2 dealt with the issue of organizing school districts and indicated that whatever the existing tax rate was in the area where the new district was to be organized, that that same tax rate could be proposed to be used by that Section of the district which was detaching and the last part of the Bill was the one I just explained on the Section that was left out inadvertently twice in terms of the teacher certification and also validated acts performed by the State Board of Education during that absence of that Act. And I would move for passage of Senate Bill 955."

"Is there any discussion? Representative Lechowicz. Is there any discussion? The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 955 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record. On this question there are 156 voting 'aye', 2 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Hoxsey would like 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 to be recorded 'aye' on the last Roll Call. Kornowicz, 'aye'. There's a button on your desk, Eddie. If you'll push it, it'll vote you. We will now proceed to hear Senate Bills 431, 606, 653, 654, 764 and 1104 on property tax. 431, 606, 653, 654, 764 and 1104. On page four of the Calendar appears Senate Bill 431. Representative Mulcahey. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 431, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Ewing, do you seek recognition? Representative McPike."

"Mr. Speaker, could you explain how we got to Bill 431? It's...According to the rules you must move down the Calendar until you come to a particular Bill that deals with the subject matter. You then have the authority to include a number of Bills that deal with that subject matter, all at the same time. So, if we move down the Calendar until we reach 431, then you can group the rest of those Bills together. Otherwise I see no way according to our rules that you can arbitrarily decide at this point to hear Bill 431."

"Well, Representative McPike, pursuant to Rule 37-..."

"Rule what?"

"37-1...We've made this ruling several times in the past. 37-A2. It takes subject matters of similar nature at one...on one Order. That's the ruling of the Chair. Proceed, Representative Mulcahey."

"Thank you..."

"Senate Bill 431..."

"...Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Excuse me. Members of the House, Senate Bill 431 amends the Revenue Act to allow ..to allow county boards to dismiss a supervisor of assessment 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 prior to the expiration of his term by a ..of course with a two-thirds vote of that county board. Now, the provisions by which one can be dismissed of course are malfeasance and misfeasance and just cause. Originally just cause was a very, very broad term. Accordingly we amended it to identify or to define exactly what just cause means and Amendment #5 identified just cause as, 'willfulness conduct in the performance of official duties'. This cleans the Bill up, hopefully to everybody's liking. The Bill passed out of the Senate Committee ten to nothing and out of the Senate 47 to 4. And I move for the adoption of Senate Bill 431."

"Is there any discussion? Representative Giorgi on Senate Bill 431."

"Mr. Speaker, could you give us the list of Bills again that we're going to go into so that we do ..."

"If you'll come to the podium, we'll give them to you, Representative. The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 431 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 142 voting 'aye', 11 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 606, Representative Davis. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 606, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Revenue Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Davis."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Senate Bill 606 would provide that in counties of less than three million that the county collector, after it was amended on Second Reading by Representative Levin, the county collector shall within 30 days after the due date and at 30 day intervals 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 thereafter pay over to the taxing districts the monies payable to them that...and takes care of the township collectors and provides for all monies accrued in interest payments also be paid to those taxing districts if the county collector has not disbursed in a timely fashion. Senator Sangmeister and I heartily endorse this Bill to you. It's been amended with..by Representative Levin. ...Has taken care of the concerns of most of the people interested in the subject. And I recommend it to you for an 'aye' vote."

"Is there any discussion? The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 606 pass?' All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 147 voting 'aye', 4 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 653, Representative Kane. Representative Keane. Sorry about that. It's a terrible mistake."

"Senate Bill 653, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Senate Bill 653 includes the members and the employees of the Board of Appeals and the State Property Tax Appeal Board among those who are eligible to receive compensation under the certified Illinois Assessing Officer Certificate. And you may remember we amended it yesterday or the day before yesterday to make the...if there is a payment, it would...er..if there is a reduction in the amount of monies available, that they would be funded after July 1, 1983. I'd ask for your favorable consideration. I'll answer any questions." 15  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing."

"Mr. Speaker, I tried to interrupt because I absolutely could not hear a word the Gentleman was saying. I would like for him to explain the Bill without mumbling."

"Representative Keane."

"Well, I will attempt to speak distinctly. Is that better, Representative? All right. Senate Bill 653 includes members and employees of the Board of Appeals and State Property Tax Appeal Board among those eligible to receive additional compensation under the Certified Illinois Assessing Officers Certificate. I'd be happy to answer any questions."

"Representative Ewing, did you understand it?"

"Well, I could at least hear him even if I didn't understand it. What are the present salaries, Representative?"

"What are the present what? I couldn't hear you."

"How much...I'll try and speak very slowly."

"No, just distinctly."

"And don't mumble."

"Well, it's my southern Illinois lingo."

"Maybe Clyde Robbins could help you out."

"Yeah, will we get to it. How much of an increase in salary is this and what is the total cost to the state?"

"It is not an increase in salary. If you have a synopsis there, or if you have the Bill in front of you you will see what it does is it brings in new people under the Certified Illinois Assessing Officers Certificate Program which we set up a number of years ago to improve and encourage improvement of skills among assessing officers."

"Well, it is an increase for these people in renumeration of some kind, Representative. What is the amount of 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 renumeration and do we know what this will cost the state totally?"

"Yes. The stipend is $500.00 per year, once you have received..taken all of the courses. You have to have at least 60 hours of courses approximately four years of courses before you are eligible for the stipend. In order to continue on the stipend you have to continue courses until you've reached 120 hours of courses and then you, at that point, you don't have to take any more courses unless we, in our wisdom, add the courses on. Once you have received the 60...in the case of the group we're talking about here, there will be no fiscal impact for approximately four years, the time it will take them to take the courses and arrive at a 60 hour credit. We are talking about approximately 35 eligible people and I would say that we will probably have half of those...We would be very lucky if we had half of those become CIAO officers and if four to five years from now half of them took the course, completed a 60 hour, it would probably cost the state about 12 thousand dollars a year."

"Thank you very much."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Knox, Representative McMaster."

"Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes."

"Jim, as I understand it this is some 30-35 people who are or will be employees of the State Property Tax Board of Appeals?"

"That's correct. It includes the State Tax Board Property...the State Property Tax Appeal Board and also Cook County Board of Appeals people who are not included in it. Other Boards of Appeals employees throughout the state 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 already are under it."

"I guess, Jim, my concern is this; what are the qualifications for these people when they are hired by the State Property Tax Board of Appeals? Don't they have to have a certain expertise in the tax assessing business? And might this perhaps qualification be part of their job qualifications?"

"Not to my knowledge. We have a number of very talented people in both of these organizations. We have a number of talented assessors throughout the state. And, hopefully, they will take advantage. The reason that we put this Bill in, the original stipend in, was to encourage everyone to become as proficient in assessing techniques as they possibly could. And I think these people in both the Property Tax Appeal Board and the Board of Appeals, they are among...they are very critical. They handle it on a daily basis. They deal in some cases much more than local township assessor may and it's...I think it's well worth it for the state to encourage them to become professional."

"Jim, I think it's very important that a place like the State Property Tax Board of Appeals and the ones you mentioned be very qualified people in the field of tax assessing. I guess what does concern me is this; I think they should be that qualified when they are hired originally and I think that should be part of the qualifications before you hire someone to that very important position in my estimation."

"Well, I would agree with you and, you know, I will join in legislation if you want to put that in. However, we do have about 35 people presently employed and I really don't know what their level of expertise is."

"Well, I would certainly hope that they have had this expertise or they would not have been employed and I think 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 it should be made a qualification of ..for their employment, rather than a 'sob' so to speak, after they are employed to teach them the business that they should know when they become employed in the first place, Jim. That's what I..."

"I agree with that. I agree, Tom, and I'd be, you know, I'll join you if you want to throw in a Bill next year. I'll join with you in that."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That's all of my questions."

"Is there any further discussion? Representative Keane to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is an attempt to bring people who deal with assessing on a daily basis into the certificate program. There's no fiscal impact for four years. I agree with Representative McMasters. Maybe in the future there will be no fiscal impact. We probably...For these people, we probably should have had if we don't have the qualifications necessary at the time of employment. I would ask for a favorable Roll Call."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 653 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 83 voting 'aye', 71 voting 'no' and 2 voting 'present'. Representative Keane?"

"I request a poll of the absentees."

"Poll the absentees, Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of the absentees: Abramson. Bullock. Carey..."

"Representative Bullock, 'aye'."

"Daniels. Deuster..."

"Representative Daniels, 'no'. Proceed."

"Garmisa. Henry. Hoffman. Huff. Jones. Karpiel. 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Dick Kelly. Kucharski. Leverenz. Margalus. Martire. McAuliffe..."

"McAuliffe, 'aye'."

"McBroom. Peters. Redmond and Stanley."

"Representative Carey, do you seek recognition? 'Aye', Carey. Jones, 'aye'. Representative Fawell?"

"Mr. Speaker, how am I voted?"

"How is the Lady recorded?"

"The Lady is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Will you please vote me 'no'."

"Change her to 'no'. Representative Conti?"

"Mr. Speaker, if this should get the 89 votes I'd like verification of the Affirmative Roll Call."

"Representative Hoffman, 'no'. On this question there are 86 'aye', 74 'no' and this Bill, having received a Con...This Bill, failing to receive the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared lost. Senate Bill 6...Wait just a minute. No, it lost. Senate Bill 654, Representative Keane. Read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 654, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Revenue Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 654 amends the Revenue Act and it rephrases the language 'for tax exempt property' to include ...to clear up a few problems in Cook County where there are tax exempt properties that do not require...er..are not required to file ..to file a certificate of exemption on an annual basis. This Bill would make them do so. The certificate of exemption gives them a tax exempt status. It takes them off the tax rolls and this would just bring some more tax exempt organizations under that annual filing requirement. I'd be happy to answer any questions and I'd ask for a favorable 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Roll Call."

"Is there any discussion? Representative Pierce."

"I'm not from southern Illinois, or where ever Pontiac is, central Illinois, but I couldn't hear that too well on that one. That didn't go the House Revenue Committee did it? Was is...Was there something tricky about that Bill or what?"

"No, it went to an equally gentle Committee, Counties and Townships."

"Now, it makes you file...Don't you have to file every year now for an exemption charity?"

"No..Yes. Charitable...Most charitable institutions have to...already had to file. There were about ....They were what they call 'corporate charter' charitable institutions that did not have to file."

"Oh, so you include them, right?"

"All I'm doing is including them and making them.."

"They're the ones who have prior to 1870 were given their status is that it?"

"That type of thing, yes."

"And they're usually big, established charities on file..."

"Yes, they have no problem.. They have no problem..."

"...How about government entities? Do you make them file?..."

"..No. No, the United States Government does not have to file."

"And how about State and local government entities?"

"No."

"All right. That's...I think we had this earlier in Revenue as a House Bill, didn't we?"

"You may have."

"...Earlier in the year..all right. I have no 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 objection."

"Further discussion? Representative Keane to close. Oh, Representative Barr? Pardon me."

"Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for a question or two?"

"He indicates he will."

"Yes, Representative, can you be a little more specific as to which entities in Cook County it is that would be required to file annual certificates under your Bill that are not now required to do so?"

"Yes, I think..I can't give you...I think there are ten, approximately ten of them. Under certain charters, the YMCA, the CYO or the Catholic...see one of the Catholic athletic things, I think it's the CYO, I'm not sure. I would be happy to give you a list of them."

"And would this include Northwestern University?"

"I think Northwestern University already does file an annual certificate. The reason they file a certificate of ...is to show that the property that is tax exempt is still being used as tax exempt property and is not being leased out to a profit company where they're actually making...you know, it's being used by a profit organization or where they've let it out for ...for purposes other than the charitable purposes."

"Isn't it true that Northwestern University has a special charter granted by the Legislature which has been interpreted by the courts to exempt it's...any property owned by it, regardless of use?"

"I don't know."

"And I'm just wondering what...Well, in fact, it does. And I'm just wondering what purpose, what good purpose is served other than a little more red tape and some more forms for the assessor to file by your Bill?" 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"The good purpose is is that we found, before we had ....We were the ones that made people file certificates on an annual basis and the reason we did was ..is that there were cases where charitable institutions had property, knowingly or unknowingly, that had been exempt and then they had rented that property out and received rentals for it. It was used...It was not used for charitable purposes and the tax rolls...the tax...They were avoiding the real property taxes. And they're putting an unfair burden on the local home owners. All ...Any organization, any tax exempt organization, none of them have any problems that I know with this Bill. I think for their tax exempt status, any reputable tax exempt organization will have no problems with this Bill because it's a simple matter of ...It's not a big deal. It's a simple matter of filing a statement to say that it is still being used for charitable purposes."

"All right. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker."

"I'd ask for a favorable Roll Call."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 654 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 142 voting 'aye', 20 voting 'no' and 3 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Conti in the Chair."

"Senate Bill 764, Representative Stuffle."

"Senate Bill 764, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Just a minute. Hold the Bill. Take it out of the record, please. Just for a second I want to introduce Captain Capparelli to say a few words."

"....Co-captain McAuliffe and Co-captain Terzich. 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Every year it's been a tradition that we have a ballgame between the Senate. This year we had to detain it a little bit, but we're going to be playing Sunday at 5:00 o'clock if everything goes well and the weather stays well. Tomorrow, with a little hope, if we start at 12:00 o'clock, if we stay in late, 9:30 we'll have a practice game for you players so be at Iles Park. But I'd like to make a presentation to our Speaker who's been a very supporter, good supporter, over the years. He promised to come out and throw the first ball on Sunday. We'd like to give him his 'Mr. Speaker' shirt, Mr. Speaker, Ryan, and his hat. Mr. Ryan is the...this year will be the real Captain of the team and he says we'd better win this year. We have in the past and we hope we can do it again this year and we'll have Roger McAuliffe make a presentation now to the Leader, Mike Madigan."

"Thank you."

"Well, Mike, I want to present you with your shirt and I hope you'll be out there to help us and maybe you could be a pinch runner or a pinch batter for us. The Senate promised they're going to give us a real hard game this year. I think last year it was 41 to 1 and they said they were going to make it closer this year."

"Back to Senate Bill 764. Representative Stuffle."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, Senate Bill 764 is the final version of the farm land assessment Bill that the Joint House-Senate Committee on Farm Assessment has put together over the last several months, in fact, has been hammered out over the last two years. It provides for a rather complex but I believe fair and equitable system of assessing farm land in the State of Illinois. As you know, every year, we've been in here since 1977 attempting 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 to provide for a comprehensive formula. We've had to make limitations in some years, such as last year, on farm assessment to keep them from literally going through the ceiling. This Bill will provide an ongoing system of farm assessment in Illinois based upon productivity and based upon net income. Our Joint Committee met several times in Springfield and around the state, met with all the farm groups in Illinois, many of the taxpayer groups and Representative Rigney, my hyphenated Sponsor and I and Representative Demuzio ...er Senator Demuzio and Senator McMillan, representing both parties in the Senate, also met with these people a number of times with the Department of Revenue. This Bill faced a number of Amendments on Second Reading but were defeated. We believe that it's in the best form it can possibly be in. It is not a roll back of farm taxes from where they are. It is an increase in farm taxes of about 9% in the coming year. We'll put in place of formula that recognizes the ability to pay of the farmer. Some have opposed the Bill saying that urban property tax payers aren't treated the same way, but I suggest, as I have many times on this floor, that the home owner, whether he lives on the farm or in the city, is treated exactly the same way with regard to the assessment and the taxation of the dwelling in which they live and the buildings they're on and the homestead lot. This Bill recognizes the fact that the farmer has to be able to make income to pay taxes. It's a fair Bill supported by most of the taxpayer federations in the state, by the Farm Bureau, the Farmers Union, the Farm Alliance, American Agricultural Movement, the NFO and every farm group in the state, without any exceptions. I would be glad to answer any questions. I have the figures developed by the University of Illinois, the figures with regard to the Bill and the 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 questions of taxes on the farm. I would ask a favorable Roll Call. We'll answer your questions and would ask that my hyphenated principle Sponsor, Representative Rigney, be recognized at the proper time to close on Senate Bill 764."

"Is there any discussion? Representative McPike?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will. Representative Stuffle?"

"According to this new complex formula that you have to determine agricultural economic value, do you..do you take one-third of that agricultural economic value then to determine the equalized assessed value of farm land?"

"Yes."

"Pardon me?"

"Yes."

"And then, in regard to pasture land, how do you determine that, permanent pasture?"

"The Bill sets out a formula that treats tillable land in one manner, basically waste in another and separates out permanent pasture with regard also to its economic productivity and relates that back to tillable."

"Yes, that's what I'm asking. You take...In order to determine the value of crop land, you take one-third of the agricultural economic value. How do you determine the value of pasture...of permanent pasture?"

"It's equated to the value that you determine for the other acreage with regard to the Amendment on page three. If you'll look at the lines, I believe, that begin at the top of that page and go down through line 10."

"Yes, that's what I'm asking. It says right there that you take one-third of one-third. Is that correct? For permanent pasture."

"Well, you know that's not exactly the case because you've left out the example, the necessary fact that you 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 first of all arrive at a method of uniform assessment with regard to productivity on the harvested crop land, on all the crop land, if you will. When we talked to the U of I and the other parties with regard to the Bill, they suggested..."

"Larry, could you just try to answer the question, that's all..."

"I'll answer it, Representative McPike, if you won't interrupt. You always interrupt and you always suggest that the urban guy is getting it put to him. I'm telling you the answer to the question. If you want the answer then let me finish the question. If you don't then shut up for once. The assessment's arrived at uniformly. Then you take one-third of that to determine the economic value and you factor the permanent pasture at one-third of that value as if it were crop land. That is the suggestion made in the Amendment. That is the answer and I don't know any other way to make it any simpler than that."

"That's what I was trying to get at. You take one-third of the one-third to determine the value for permanent pasture. And how do you determine...and what factor do you use to determine the value of other farm land? Do you take one-sixth of one-third according to your Amendment?"

"You do that on non-crop land."

"Fine, thank you. To the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed."

"We have...we have here...First of all, I guess you might as well say that the farm wagons are getting ready to roll. This Bill is going to fly out of here. The saying is on the House floor is, 'When the farmers are ready to roll, you're ready to get on the wagon or get out of the way'. But to those of you who represent not just farm communities, but also happen to represent urban areas, I 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 would like to point out a few things that you are doing to your city dwellers by this Bill. For the last four years we have been very generous to the farmers and in the following counties the generosity that we have shown to the farmers has not been reflected in the urban areas. To those of you from DuPage County, might interest you to know that the assessed value of nonfarm land in your area has gone up 23% and the assessed value of farm land has gone down 7% between '77 and '79. In Effingham County those of you that represent that might be interested to know that nonfarm land went up 24% and farm land only went up 2%. And this new Bill will give another decrease to farmers in Effingham County. To those of you in Kankakee County that represent urban dwellers, you might be interested to know that the value of urban property went up 18% while the value of farm property went down approximately 1%. To those of you from LaSalle County, the cities of LaSalle-Peru, you represent the home owners and the small businessmen in LaSalle-Peru, their taxes have gone up 36% and the farm values in those ..in LaSalle County has gone down 2%. To those of you from Macoupin County, you might be interested to know that the small businessman and the homeowner has faced an increased of 51% and the farmer has faced a decrease of 19%. To those of you from Morgan County, in the city of Jacksonville, you might be interested in telling the people in Jacksonville that their small business has gone up 35% and their homes have gone up 35%, whereas the farmer has only had a 5% increase. To those of you in Peoria, you might be interested to tell the people that live in the industrial city of Peoria that their assessed value has gone up 21%, whereas the farmer in that area has seen a decline of 10% in the same time period. And finally to those of you in Will County, you 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 might be interested to know that the homeowner has seen his values go up 25% and the farmer has seen his value go down 4%. Those are not my figures. Those come from the Department of Revenue. From 1976 until 1980, the equalized assessed value of nonfarm land in Illinois has gone up somewhere above 30%. But farm land in Illinois over the same time period has gone down 3%. So it's really wonderful to go home and tell...I'm sorry. Farm land has gone up 3% and nonfarm has gone up about 30%, a factor of ten to one. Now, I don't mind being generous to the farmers. I happen to represent one or two percent of the farmers. My District happens to have about 98% urban and about 2% rural. I don't mind trying to be equitable to the farmers and we have been more than generous for four years now. And for four years, the farmers have refused to implement the law. The consequences are very plain. The figures speak for themselves. The farmer has seen his farm either frozen at the '76 level, or he is seeing the values statewide go up approximately 2%. But the urban dweller, the urban dweller who pays the countywide taxes for the library, the countywide taxes for the sheriff, for the county treasurer, the countywide taxes for the community college district, the urban dweller is paying what the farmer has not paid. So go back and tell your farmers how fine you have been to them, but at the same time, go back and tell your city dwellers and your small businessmen that you have left them with the burden that should have fallen fairly and equitably more on the farm community than has has. Vote 'yes' on this Bill because it's going to fly out of here. But when you go home, make sure you can stand up and face your urban taxpayer."

"The Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing." 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"...Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the last speaker said something I agree with and that's when he said vote 'yes' on this Bill. Because that's a very good idea. Now, if you listened to that diatribe regarding this Bill, you would think it was terrible and you might wonder why he would suggest you vote for it. You have to look at things realistically. And I would be the first to agree with that speaker, that our property is not assessed fairly across the state and that is partly the fault of this Body and something we should address. But you have to look at farm land in regard to what it will produce. Had we not passed four years ago the Farm Land Assessment Bill, we would be taking a third to a half of the gross profit from our farm land today just to pay real estate taxes. This would have put our farmers out of business. Illinois is the largest producer and exporter of farm products in the world and in this country. Without it, our economy would be a shambles. We cannot tax our rural landlords and our farmers to the point that there is no profit in our farms. If we think we have economic problems in the State of Illinois today, then we should follow that pattern and I can assure you that we will have a problem as bad as the RTA throughout the State of Illinois. Ladies and Gentlemen, we need to address all of the real estate problems in this state. We need to make our real estate property taxes fair. We need to work on making property taxes fair for home owners. We have and we have taken a number of steps to try and help the home owner. This is a fair Bill. In this Bill there are provisions that those counties, particularly those counties in southern Illinois, that have been notoriously under-assessing, will have to within three years come up to the level where they're supposed to be and that is important to all of us. Don't listen to those speakers who 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 say this is just private interest for the farmer. It's good legislation. It's good economic legislation for the entire state and I agree with Representative McPike. You should vote 'yes'."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Currie."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Representative Stuffle in his opening remarks remarked upon the complexity of the formula that Senate Bill 764 would establish for determining the assessed value of farm land. And if he would yield, I have a few questions about the actual basis of that formula."

"He indicates he will."

"I hope you won't be quite so angry with my questions as you were with those of the previous speaker."

"I don't have a bumper sticker for you. I apologize to Representative McPike."

"Thank you. That's a Gentlemanly .....Apparently you're basing the farm land values on a productivity index. Could you describe what that productivity index consists of? I see the formulas, but the formulas are a little difficult to translate into actual language. When you..."

"That's very true. In the best terms that I know how, the formula determines productivity in the simplest terms I can with regard to the Amendment which is now the Bill, we would take the various productivity points as certified. Basically as you know, we now have all those points listed out for harvested crop land. We would make determinations as we have with regard to putting the Bill together through the University of Illinois as to production costs and costs on the farm and the kind of yields that are available and the amount of money that is being generated now with regard to what the farmer receives. We would factor into the formula the five year rolling average of those figures, 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 factor into the formula the five year averages of the federal interest rates, which would be an indication of the ability to pay. All that, those figures, the gross income figures, the yields, the production costs and the overall net return to land would be factored in to come up with the productive value."

"So it's not based on the income, for example, that the farm land itself produces for the farmer. It's not ...You call it productivity, but it's not..."

"...Well, that is..that is true. It is, as I said. It ends up being basically your net return to land, but you asked me what the factors were that go into that and those factors were the ones that I mentioned with regard to the gross income, the soil productivity type with regard to the given acreage, the crop mix, the average prices of production costs, the nonland costs and all that that comes from the University of Illinois College of Agriculture, factored in with the net return to land. That would be your basis and of course that involves income producing factors."

"I'm especially interested in the soil productivity mix. How do you...How is it determined? The soil productivity of a particular acreage?"

"Well, the University of Illinois with regard to the counties in the state, is aware from the census data, farm census data, federal figures and state available figures, what each county has with regard to farm land and the type of mix that they have. Those are all reported back so that you know what's in tillable acreage as to the number of acres, what's not being tilled and what's in a certain crop in a given year and you also, from that, can figure out how productive with regard to taking a given acreage where it fits on that productivity scale. Those figures are all 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 available and ..."

"They are?..."

"...The Bill references them all back..."

"They are and I've seen them. I think I'm especially interested, Representative Stuffle, in the soil survey map..."

"Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, can I interrupt you...can I interrupt you, Representative Currie? There are some 17 lights on this Bill yet. Will you try to keep your inquiries and your answers as brief as possible?"

"Thank you, Representative Stuffle. How about soil survey maps? What role do they play? Do they play any role at all in determining the productivity of the farm land? It's a yes or no question so as to keep the answers brief."

"The answer is they play a part. If you've got one in your county, you're better off..."

"They play a part. How many...May I ask you, how many counties have so far published soil survey maps? Or how many...or for how many counties do we have published soil survey maps?"

"I would...I haven't seen the latest figures. Being honest, I would guess that about, at the most, one-third of them do, but you don't have to have them to use the Bill. It would only help you."

"My understanding is that it's essential to have soil survey information in order to use this Bill properly, that in fact, the problem with the 1976 map...Bill was that we did not have the information on which to base fair assessments. To the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed."

"We do have soil survey maps, but only for 43 counties in the State of Illinois. This Bill is not going to be any 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 better implemented than was the 1976 proposal unless there are soil survey maps so that we can establish the productivity of farm land. The reason we're here today debating Senate Bill 764 is that the first farm land assessment Bill was never implemented. That problem remains with Senate Bill 764 and 764 has a further problem. There is no way to push for the implementation of this proposal. The Department of Revenue when it establishes multipliers for counties is in a position to encourage, to provide an incentive as it were, for the county assessor to do his job. This Bill takes the Department of Revenue out of farm land assessments altogether and permits the locals, a Committee comprised with a majority of farmers appointed to it, to decide whether the assessments are fair or not. In addition to the lack of soil survey maps, which are requisite if this Bill is to be implemented, there is a further language in the Bill that permits a debasement of whatever productivity index already exists, debasements including, but not limited to, slope drainage, ponding, flooding, field size and shape. What we are doing with this proposal when we pass it is to see to it that farm land assessments are kept very low for now and for the foreseeable future. Representative Stuffle suggested that there would be an overall increase. It may be that there will be an increase over last year, but had the original 1976 Bill ever been implemented, this Bill before us today would have resulted in a decrease in farm land assessments. I think it's nice to be sensitive to the economic problems of farmers. I think we should do that. But I'm not sure that we should adopt a proposal that will mean that from 1976 until 1984, over an eight year period, farm land assessments will increase at the most on the average 2% a year. Compare that figure with what has happened to 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 nonfarm land assessments and look very carefully at the formula and at the soil survey maps, whose absence means that that formula bears no relation to reality. I think that even if you're willing to vote 'yes', you ought to be prepared to explain to your urban areas why and how it is that their assessments are going to be skyrocketing while the farm areas in your own ..in your own communities will be decreasing."

"The Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Tuerk."

"Would the Sponsor yield for a couple of questions?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Stuffle, it's my understanding that current law bases the assessment on productivity taking into account timber land, pasture land, gulleys, etcetera, etcetera, nonproductive land. Is that correct?"

"The current law is based upon productivity in part and it does have debasements in it per regulations of the Department of Revenue."

"Well, how does this Amendment to the law then really differ from the present law and how does it help the farmer and how does it help the entire State of Illinois, is basically my question."

"Number one, the current law, which is the '77 law, revised by '79 Amendment, never took effect. We put a cap on the first year that it would have existed as the '79 law which was this year, as you know, an eight percent limit on the prior year's base. The current law '79 would go into effect if we did nothing this year. That law is based on gross income, data used from taking ten counties in the northern part of the sector of the state, if you will, below a certain...above a certain line and ten counties below and figuring up values there and apply them across the state whether they really apply in a given county or 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 not, plus the current law, were it to go into effect, uses 10% of market values relating to sales. Those are the differences. This would be a net income approach based upon ability to pay as opposed to that gross income one. This would apply back to each county as opposed to averages. This would continue to allow debasements per the regulations that exist now."

"In other words, in Peoria County, for example, this would be on the local level to where they're chasing sales for example or the productivity of the various farm land, that type of thing."

"That is right. And that would be a good example of the county that had very few sales and the sales might not at all relate and the belief of our Committee was that farm sales bore no resemblance to the ability of the farmer to pay his taxes."

"Thank you."

"Representative Woodyard."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous question."

"The previous question was put. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed? The 'ayes' (have it). Representative Stuffle to close or Representative Ropp?"

"Rigney."

"Rigney."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, by way of closing, I do want to make a couple of comments about issues that were raised during the course of debate. Representative McPike quoted some figures about what has happened to farm assessments and what has happened to nonfarm assessments within the last three or four years' time. I would point out to you that there's only one problem with those figures and that is the 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 fact that those figured are based upon gross assessments. I notice, for instance, in my own home District, Ogle County, nonfarm land went up 58% and I said, 'Oh, my God, how did nonfarm land go up 58% in a county within my District and nobody even complained to me about it?'. Well, when I examined the figures I found out what had happened. We had built a new nuclear plant up at Byron in Ogle County. That is now carrying about 40% of the tax base in Ogle County and if you drop that out of those nonfarm land figures, you will rather quickly determine that really farm land and nonfarm land have gone up about relatively the same amount within the last few years and I think that you will find in every county where there is something unusual probably some new industry or new utility or something has come into that area, that has completely distorted the figures that he is quoting. Now, the charge was made, I think by Representative Currie, that we're taking the Department of Revenue out of this whole process. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Department of Revenue will maintain the same position that they now have. Reference was made that well, we're going to turn it over to a group of farmers within each county. That group of farmers has no power to determine anything. They really only act as an advocate before the Property Tax Appeals Board if they feel that the Department of Revenue has not dealt with them fairly. And then the Property Tax Appeal Board would become the final determinate as to whether or not..which figures would be adopted. Now let me sum it up this way. We have tried to make property taxes in this state and this nation work for many, many years. We started out trying to assess all farm land at 100% of fair cash value. We assessed every cow, every pig, every horse, every bushel of grain at 100% of fair cash value and we 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 made that system work for a period of time. Well, then things began to slide. Taxes begin to go up and the assessment on homes, the assessments on land steadily declined. I remember when we tried to assess it at 60% of fair cash value. Twelve years ago I served on the Board of Review and we were trying to maintain 55% of fair cash value. Then we tried to maintain 50% of fair cash value. And a few years ago, we threw in the towel and said, 'Oh, let's drop it all down to 33 and 1/3% of fair cash value'. And then we tried about four years ago to implement some special farm legislation that was based upon gross income figures. The only problem was that the gross went up dramatically, but net income, the ability to pay, was far in the arrears of what was happening to those gross figures. Let's keep one thing in mind. What we're talking about here is an income net...a net income approach where you capitalize the net income of the land itself and then determine from that capitalized net income what should be a fair use value assessment. Now, that may be a little bit new to Illinois but believe me they are using basically the same approach in many, many other states of the Union, in fact, a lot of what we have put into this Bill has been copied from Iowa and from some of our sister states that found that they also had to go to the same system. All taxes really in the final analysis are income taxes no matter what we use as a base. And what we are suggesting here is what I think is really the inevitable; we're going to have to go to some kind of capitalized net income approach and we think we've got that Bill and we've got it in the shape that we can all live with it. So in closing, let me say this, the choice is simple. Either land values in this state are going to go up in excess of 25% in this calendar year or else we're going to adopt this legislation 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 that's going to make that increase much more reasonable. So I suggest to you that now is the time for us to get on board with a capitalized net income approach. We really don't have any other choice in calendar year 1981."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 764 pass?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed voting 'no'. To explain your vote, Representative Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Those of you who are voting green, I'd like you to understand a few things. One, there's no way you can equalize between counties. What we're going to have is the farm land will be assessed at basically a 16% assessment. Nonharvested, nonharvested crop land will be assessed at one-third of the value of harvested crop land. That means, it's going to be assessed at 5%. Woodlands will be assessed at 2 and 1/2% of value and wastelands at only $10.00 an acre. One of the problems with this Bill is there's no equalization between counties. The county...within a county the urban areas are getting hurt by this. Within the state, the urban areas are getting taken because it will have a dramatic effect on the school aid formula and throw many more school aid dollars into rural areas. I urge you to vote 'no'."

"Representative from Sangamon, the Lady from Sangamon, Oblinger."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I'm probably the odd one out here. I was born and raised in Chicago and now live on a farm. And if I had to depend on that for my living, I certainly would be on the rolls of relief. Anhydrous amonia went up 400% in two years and you don't see our corn going up that much. When we have a wet year, a dry year, the corn bore. We're supposed to have 135 bushels of corn per acre. We've never reached that. So you have to look at what it brings in. We can't put our 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 extra costs in our selling price. We've got to have some relief or you're not going to have any farmers. And I now that coming from Chicago I certainly didn't know what a thing we were getting into, depending on everything else except our own work."

"The Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."

"Thank you, Speaker. Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, it's important that this Bill pass because in deference to what some of the previous speakers said, there are tremendous.........counties. Not only as to ..pertaining to soil types, but to markets, to the climate and we are the only profession that I'm aware of that after we get through with our particular product we take it to the market and we say, 'What will you give me for it?'. That's like asking you, as Legislators, after a Session is over, like going to the taxpayer and saying, 'What have I been worth this past year?'. I'm afraid many of us would probably go begging. I'm saying this is a good Bill. It's fair to all farmers in the area. It's fair to citizens in the State of Illinois because there is no correlation between the sale price of an acre of land and the ability to produce off of that land. Inflation has eaten up income that normally, historically have been a good purchase. The only thing that you can do in terms of buying land and expecting to make money is to resell it. You don't get it by actually farming it. And I urge a favorable vote."

"I want you to take note the Bill has 95 votes. Those of you speaking in favor of it please cut your remarks. Representative Ewell, from Cook."

"Mr. Speaker, we're hearing now a new economics theory that price bears no relationship to money. I think that you have to look at this thing in terms of the Bill itself. I'd defy any five people on this floor to be able to 40  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 compute the value of one acre of land. It is folly. You can't do it. You know you can't do it. There is no way you're going to come up with this soil productivity mix, the crop mix, the non-land costs, and the production cost, add them all together, multiply, subtract, divide, and when you come out you're going to pay what you think you might want to pay. There is not an assessor in the State of Illinois who will be able to collect a dime on farmland when you finish with the figures. It is folly because this Bill, you're ripping off the school kids who are in your districts, and you'll be back here next year telling us, 'Now let's readjust the formula because we don't have enough money...'"

"The Gentleman from Henderson, Representative Neff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I feel quite strongly that this Bill is going to pass. It should have 140 or 150 votes on. I get a little disturbed at some of the folks from the city forgetting that agriculture is the most important comodity we have in the State of Illinois. It affects all of us. The farmer's always paid his fair share of taxes and under this legislation he will still be paying his fair share of taxes. And I would hope that we'd all consider how important agriculture is and food is to the State of Illinois. Thank you."

"Representative Bradley."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I don't rise really to explain my vote for, but I had a question for one of the Sponsors, and in explaining their votes I wish they'd answer it. If the...if they were assured by the Sponsors that they're going to implement this legislation, why was it necessary to put a clause in 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 that if it is not implemented, then the...then you are limited to a $30 increase one way or the other. Is that provision still in the Bill, and if so, if you're going to implement it, why was it necessary to put that limit in?"

"Representative Stuffle."

"Well, I think that really is a confused question, because the real answer to that is we do force them to implement. We put a $30 grandfather clause cap on an increase or decrease in the per acre value of a parcel until implementation occurs. That would prevent the bottom from dropping out because of fair assessment, in example, in Madison County, of the lower value farmland that is overassessed now until they can get to where they belong. And that protects the taxing district in that example. On the other end, you would not have a massive increase in one year because of that grandfather clause on the high end. You would attempt to bring the counties to the equalized level and implement the Bill over a period of years. Only two counties in the state would go beyond the third year to implement and virtually everyone but about 14 would be there before the third year."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman. I tried to get your attention before we got this debate off, but let me assure those of you who are from areas which are densely populated that this Bill will definitely have an effect on the distribution of state aid to schools. As the equalized assessed evaluation is depressed from where it would normally go, the state comes in on top of that. As that goes down with a pool that is consistent for all. There is only one place to get it, and you're going to get it from those people who assess their property at 33 1/3 or the average of 33 1/3. There is nowhere else to go 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 for it. It has got to be pulled off of there. Those of you who are voting green from those kinds of areas are not voting in the best interests of your districts, let me assure you."

"The Lady from LaSalle, Representative Hoxsey."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, it is a well known fact that the farmer has been taking the heaviest share of the burden on the local property taxes. Let me draw you a quick comparison that will give it to you the way it is. The margin of profit is not there. 1940 we paid a dollar for a hair cut, got a dollar for a bushel of corn. 1980 you're paying $10 to $15 for a haircut and what are we getting for corn? $3.00 to $3.50. You can quickly see the difference. Let me tell you, the margin of profit is not there, and we need the tax relief at the local level."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Will the Clerk take the record? On this question there are 109 'aye', 55 voting 'no', four voting 'present'. This Bill receiving the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1104."

"Senate Bill 1104,..."

"Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"...A Bill for an Act amending certain Acts in relation to township and multi-township assessors, Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Miller."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would ask leave at this time to bring Senate Bill 1104 from Third Reading back to Second Reading for the purposes of a technical Amendment."

"The Gentleman asks for...to bring this Bill back to Second Reading. Are there any objections? Second 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Reading. Just a minute. Representative Ewell."

"They tell me it is alright. Okay."

"Are there Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"Amendment #4, Getty, amends Senate Bill 1104 as amended..."

"Senator Kane. Representative Kane rather."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is an Amendment that's been worked out to clear up the problems with a previous Amendment. I think we probably have to table that first. I think that was Amendment #2, I believe...Oh, okay, we don't have to do that. The Amendment...what this does is to clarify that it is only the provisions of the amendatory part that is excluded by the exclusion on Amendment #2 that it does not apply to the whole Secion but only to the changes by this Bill. And I think that this clarifies the questions that Representative Conti and others had to this Bill earlier."

"Are there any further questions? The...the Gentleman moves the adoption of Amendment #4. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed. The 'ayes' have it. Any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Representative Miller."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this time I would move that we suspend Rule 35C and any other appropriate rule to allow this Bill to be heard immediately upon Third Reading."

"Third Reading."

"Leave for the Attendance Roll Call to suspend Rule 35C."

"Does the Gentleman have leave? Senate Bill 1104...leave is granted. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1104, a Bill for an Act amending certain Acts in relation to township and multi-township assessors, Third Reading of the Bill." 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Representative Miller on the Bill."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1104 originated with the Department of Revenue who discovered that in the Amendatory Act which we passed in 1979 that there were a few technical corrections which needed to be made. The Bill, 1104, corrects some of those mistakes and omissions. It basically provides in its first part that multi-township boards shall certify their levies directly to the county clerk. Currently under the existing law, they would have to apportion the levy among the member townships, and then the member township boards would certify to the county clerk. However, when the multi-township board would make the levy, it would not know the assessed evaluation of the respective townships, and this would simply allow the county clerk to make the apportionment based on that information when it was available. It is very technical, and there is really no new tax involved. It is a very minor change. The second part deals with basically the appointment process. The original amendatory Act failed to indicate that any appointees to any vacancies would have to have the same qualifications as a candidate for that office, and this clears that up. There was also an Amendment that was put on which indicates that for those vacancies for the term expiring December 31, 1981, that the persons need not be so qualified because their original assessors did not have to have the qualifications. I would be happy to answer any other questions."

"There being no further...there being no further discussion, the question is 'Shall Senate Bill 1104 pass?' Have all those voted who wish? The question is...'Shall this Bill pass?...Senate Bill 1104 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed voting 'no'." 45  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Have all those voted who wish? Have all those voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, this Bill receiving 149 'yeas', nine 'nos', none voting 'present', receiving the Constitutional Majority, this Bill shall be declared passed. Senate Bill 957, Representative Daniels. Representative Zito. Representative Zito please."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. Will the clerk read the Bill?"

"The Clerk read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 957, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Revenue Act, Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Zito."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 957 amends the Revenue Act to provide the taxpayer who has paid his taxes under protest an opportunity to obtain interest which has accumulated on these protest...on these protested taxes during the pendency of the protest if the court rules in the taxpayer's favor. This Bill requires that the collector deposit taxes paid under protest in interest bearing accounts. Also, if the court orders payments to the taxpayer of all or part of the taxes paid under protest and withheld, then the taxpayer shall also receive a proportional share of interest earned during the pendency of the protest. Finally, if the court order results in payment to the taxing district, an interest earned during the pendency of the protest shall be paid into the county treasury. I would move for its adoption. Would be happy to answer any questions at this time, Mr. Speaker."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Preston."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will." 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Representative Zito, then this Bill is a good Bill for consumers, for homeowners who might protest their tax bills?"

"I think it is an excellent Bill for consumers."

"I see, so the consumer who would get some interest on the money he has paid in as being held by the assessor or the county collector."

"That is correct."

"I see. I think it is a terrific Bill, Mr. Speaker, and I would urge an 'aye' vote."

"There being no further discussion, the question is 'Shall Senate Bill 957 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed voting 'no'. Have all those voted who wish? Will the Clerk take the record? On this question there are 145...4 voting 'yes', six voting 'no', three voting 'present'. This Bill receiving the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. We'll now consider Senate Bills 168 and Senate Bills 1081 relating to unemployment comp...insurance. Senate Bill 168, Representative Deuster. Mr. Kane, Representative Kane."

"I realize that the Speaker has consistently ruled that the Speaker can do this and sort of arbitrarily skip around the Calendar and pick out Bills under particular subject matters. And what I was wondering is since you have said that you have this power even though the rules don't give it to you, whether you would give us some advance notice of the general subject matters that you're going to go to in the order in which you're going to go to them so that we're not sort of left here in the dark and blindsighted. I think the whole idea of the rule is that we know in advance where your going to, either you're going to go numerically or by priority of call. And since you have decided that 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 you're going to go by whim of the Speaker, if you would let us know in advance where your whim is going to leave you and us. I would appreciate it very much."

"Now on the order of unemployment insurance. Representative Kane."

"Would you, on your own or with the authority of the real Speaker, put a list out to us which gives the subject matters which you are going to take up, the order in which you're going to take them up, and the Bills that are going to be in those subject matters? I think that if you would do that in the next 15 or 20 minutes the Members of the House would appreciate it."

"Representative Kane, we'll take that under advisement."

"Thank...ask you again in 15 minutes."

"Representative Jones."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. Just for a point of clarification. Now you went to Senate Bill 168. Now could you give us the grouping of those Bills right now that will be heard in this category? I think..."

"Well, Representative Jones, I stated it to be Senate Bill 168 and Senate Bill 1081. Representative Deuster on Senate Bill 168. Take it out of the record. Senate Bill 1081, Representative Schuneman. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1081, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unemployment Insurance Act, Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Schuneman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1081 is perhaps the most significant Unemployment Compensation Bill that this Legislature has dealt with in many years. The original Bill would put Illinois in compliance with the federal guidelines which 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 were established last year, and that Bill in its original form would save Illinois trust fund, the general revenue fund, and Illinois employers something like $1,000,000,000 over the period of a year. So it is very, very important that we enact Senate Bill 1081 in its original form. That Bill had the bipartisan support of the Senate and also of the House. Just yesterday we added to this Bill the changes in the law which were agreed upon at the time of the meeting of the labor leaders and the business leaders of this state. And the Bill now includes those changes in benefit reductions that were agreed upon and the increased employer taxes that were agreed upon. That package of benefits is worth somewhere between 400 and 500 million dollars to the Illinois trust fund. I think 1081 is a Bill that we must pass. I think we all recognize that our unemployment compensation trust fund is in serious trouble, and unless the Legislature acts at this Session, we're going to be faced with some very, very serious problems in the future. I'd be happy...I think most of the Members know what is in this Bill, Mr. Speaker. I would be happy to respond to any questions depending on the wishes of the Members."

"Are there any further questions? The Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Tuerk."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I don't have any questions to ask the fine Sponsor, but I did want to make a couple of key points in this legislation. One, that as the Sponsor has mentioned, it does put us in compliance with the federal government which is vitally important. Number two, I want to make the point that this isn't the agreed Bill process, and I think that is very important to make to this Body because there has been some negative overtones surrounding the agreed Bill process in the last two or 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 three years. This is an agreement among labor leaders, business leaders, and Legislators. And I want to make that point perfectly clear because there was tremendous legislative input into this agreement which was reached at the mansion last week. Both management and labor have made some sacrifices in order to come to the agreement which is for the betterment of all who live and work in Illinois in my view including the taxpayer. And I reiterate, including the taxpayer because what we are heading for was a tremendous penalty on the part of Illinois taxpayers which would have come out of the general reveune fund. The state will be able to...by passage of this Bill, would be able to reduce its borrowing, bring the trust fund into some semblance of order. It will possibly save the State of Illinois some money. In fact, I feel that it will save money. I think it is a good step in the right direction. It is not a panacea by any means, but it is a step in the right direction, and I would encourage all to vote for this particular Bill."

"The Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative Darrow."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would just like to reiterate what Representative Tuerk said. If you recall earlier in the Session we had two other Unemployment Compensation Bills. One of those passed, the other lost by one vote. At that time I stood on this House floor and I indicated that we should go back to the agreed Bill process, not for the sake of the Legislators, but for the sake of the business and labor community. This Bill is a compromise. It is worked out. Labor and business sat down at the negotiating table and met at the Governor's mansion to hammer out their differences. It doesn't give labor everything they want. 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 It doesn't give business everything they want. But both can live with it. And it is for this reason that I feel we should support it. We should go back to the agreed Bill process for the sake of the State of Illinois, and we should continue to do this in future years with Workmen's Compensation and other such legislation. I would solicit an 'aye' vote. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Mr. Wikoff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, rise in support of this. One of those unemployment Bills that lost was mine. I think this encompasses what I was intending to do and the various package of Bills I had. It has...has had a lot of work. There has been a lot of effort back and forth on both sides. There has been some give and take. This is a good Bill. It should be passed. It is one that everybody can go home and probably explain to their constituents whether they be Democrat or Republican, that the State of Illinois and the labor and business together will gain on this. I think it is a good Bill. It should be..."

"The Gentleman from Henderson, Representative Neff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. One of the previous speakers said this was a so called agreed Bill. I don't know what you'd call it. Again we're coming up with the legislation here. We're talking about what a great thing it is doing, but who's...the small businessman is still going to be hurt and hurt terrible on this type of legislation. The big business, of course, John Deere, which I have been a John Deere dealer, are satisfied. Caterpillar is satisfied with it because they can pass it on. But us little people, small business people cannot pass it on. And it is the little people that they are going to think they got 51  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 something and in about three months they are going to feel that they...real bitter towards everyone that voted on this because we just kidded them again."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huskey."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have never really been in favor of the agreed Bill process because I always feel that the agreed Bills were drawn from outside of these walls. And I have always been a believer that legislation should be done within these walls. But this Bill did have legislation inputted at several of the Legislators sitting in on the processes. So therefore, I don't really call it an agreed Bill. I don't think it is really an agreed Bill. It was a Bill that was more or less formulated by Legislators. I think it is probably about the best thing we can get. It isn't our answer, no. I don't say it is a good Bill. I would say, though, that for the first time, labor has conceded and given in a little and business has given in a lot as they usually always have to do. But I am going to vote for it."

"The question is 'Shall Senate Bill 1081 pass?' Those will indicate by voting 'aye', those opposed voting 'no'. I'm sorry. Will the Gentleman...has a right to close. Representative Schuneman."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, why don't I just explain my vote. Let's go ahead with the voting and..."

"Fine."

"By way of closing, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would like to mention a couple of points that other Members have spoken to. One has to do with the legislative input. I would simply like to mention that those Legislators who were invited to participate in this Conference by the Governor or Senate President, Phil Rock, Senator DeAngelis, Senator Keats, Senator Savickas, Senator 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Collins, Senator Dawson, and here in the House, Representative Bruce Farley, Representative Tuerk, Representative Jim McPike, and myself. So there is legislative input here. Nobody is going to be happy with the tax increase that is included in here. But believe me, this is better than what might have happened to us had we taken no action. I thank you for your vote."

"On this question...Have all those voted who wish? All those voted who wish? Will the Clerk take the record? On this question, this Bill receiving 155 'yeas', six 'nos', none voting 'present', this Bill receiving the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 168, Representative Deuster."

"Senate Bill 168, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Unemployment Insurance Act, Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Deuster."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I am the House Sponsor of Senate Bill 168 which came over here in another form and..."

"Representative Deuster, proceed. We're having trouble with the machines, so proceed. We are on Senate Bill 168. Proceed, Representative Deuster."

"Mr. Speaker, as I was saying, I accepted the sponsorship of Senate Bill 168 from my colleague, Senator Berning. The Bill had other provisions, and when we came to the Commerce Committee, it was suggested to me that the Committee would like to perhaps use that Bill as a vehicle for the unemployment proposals, and Senator Berning and I indicated that we would be happy to allow his Bill to be used for that purpose. The Bill in its present form does provide all of the benefit reforms, most of them were in the Bill we just passed. However, it did not include any 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 tax increase. This Bill does happen to be my personal preference because I do not believe in laying any new taxes on the small business people of the State of Illinois. So the 'yes' vote that I cast on the last Bill was a very, very, very reluctant one. As part of the agreement to use Senate Bill 168 as a vehicle, it was my understanding that in the event business and labor were able to get together and work something out, that Senate Bill 168 would not be progressed. And out of respect to that agreement, I as House Sponsor of this Bill, will ask that it be taken out of the record."

"The Sponsor says he wants the Bill taken out of the record. Representative Schuneman."

"Mr. Speaker, I think it is in order at this time to recognize the part that Representative Deuster played in this. When the negotiations started at the Governor's Mansion, it was requested at that time that we hold Senate Bill 168, and Representative Deuster graciously agreed to do that, and I think we should thank him for his cooperation."

"The Chair recognizes. ...Now go to the subject matter of licensure and Senate Bill 170, 1143, and 1148. 170, Representative Domico. 170, 1143, and 1148. The first Bill will be 170, Representative Domico."

"Senate Bill 170, a Bill for an Act in relation..."

"Just a minute. Out of the record. Senate Bill 1143, Representative Bower. Will the Clerk read the Bill?"

"Senate Bill 1143, a Bill for an Act to amend the Regualtory Agency Sunset Act and Sanitation Registration Act, Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Bower."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 House. This Bill would extend the sunset for the Sanitary and Registration Act from October 1, 1981 to October 1, 1991. This Bill is merely a matter of health. Sanitarians are employed by various units of government throughout the state to inspect environmental facilities, sewage disposal, and the like. If this Bill is not passed, the..."

"For what purpose does the Gentleman from Sangamon rise? Representative Kane."

"Yeah, how did we get to this Bill?"

"The Chair announced that we're going to the order of licensure."

"How many Bills are on that order?"

"There are two Bills now, Senate Bill 1148 and Senate Bill 1143 which we're on now."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I would again renew my request. The intent of the rules is to allow the Members of this House to know where we are going. And I would renew my request that if you're going to arbitrarily jump all over the Calendar, that you let us know where you're jumping to. I don't think that that is an unreasonable request."

"Mr. Kane, we...the Chair has taken your request under advisement."

"Would you do more than that and give us a committment that you're going to let us know where you are going?"

"Let's proceed with the business of the House. Representative Braun, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I join Representative Kane's objection. It seems to me that if the Speaker is going to pick and choose among which items of this Calendar will be handled first, that that works a great disservice against the many Members of this chamber on both sides of the aisle who may have legislation they are vitally interested in seeing passed but doesn't fall within one of the 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 hand-picked catagories that the Chair decides to move to. And I think, Mr. Speaker, it is a dangerous precidence for this entire Legislative Body to have the Chair bopping around on the Calendar just kind of hand-picking favorite categories of Bills while all the other 176 people sit in this House...are left in the dark as to where we're going. Particularly...and there is not a person in this chamber who doesn't have something on this Calendar they're vitally interested in. And, Mr. Speaker, I think that in light of the fact that we have a large Calendar, that it would be in the interest of this entire Body and in the interest of procedural regularity to follow either the Calendar or priority of call or some kind of order of priority that we can understand. But to go from revenue stuff to unemployment things to licensure, and I guess, then to horseshoing or something, leaves us all in the dark and leaves us all in jeopardy of not having our Bills called on in time for the deadline."

"Thank you, Mrs. Braun. With Representative Domico on 170...Senate Bill 170."

"Mr. Speaker, may I have leave to put it on the Spring Calendar please?"

"The Gentleman has asked leave to put Senate Bill 170 on the Spring Calendar. Are there any objections? 170 on the Spring Calendar. For what purpose does Representative Peters rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, just..I think you had settled it. I just was going to suggest that if we just continue the program that is set, we'll get through these Bills a lot quicker. It seems to me that what the Chair has done to this point is taken those Bills which basically don't have solid political impact. And that, I think, at this stage of the game, makes some sense until some other kinds of agreements 56  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 can be reached."

"Your point is well taken. Representative Greiman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A point of inquiry. Do I understand that there are two Bills on this order?"

"There were three Bills on this order. 170 was taken out of the record and put on the Spring Calendar. There is Senate Bill 1143 which we are on now, and Senate Bill 1148."

"And does that constitute all of the Bills that relate to licensure?"

"That is correct."

"That are on the Calendar, all of them. See, we can't go as fast as you...as you can, because we don't know what Bills are licensure and what Bills are the other, because we don't have any advanced knowledge. So we're really shooting craps in the dark, Mr. Speaker."

"1143, Representative Bower. Representative Bower please. Proceed."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. About a half an hour ago I started on this Bill. As I was indicating, if we do not pass this legislation, on October 1 we will no longer have licensed sanitarians in this state. Well, I happen to agree with the Sunset Commission on many Bills. But I think when it comes to a matter of public health that we don't play games. This Bill was sponsored in the Senate by Senator Sangmeister and, of course, myself, in the House. It is a bipartisan Bill. The Department of Public Health has consistently been in support of this legislation. There was absolutely no testimony whatsoever in opposition to the sanitarian registration at any of the hearings of the Sunset Commission. It is supported by the Illinios Public Health 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Association, the Illinois Environmental Health Association. It is an important profession that we need to continue to license. I urge an 'aye' vote."

"Representative Daniels in the Chair."

"Any discussion? On that question, Representative Pierce."

"Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will, Sir."

"I am not exactly sure what a sanitarian is. Where do they...where do they gradute sanitarians?"

"Well, you mean what schools they go to?"

"Yeah, do they...is there a school of sanitarianism or somewhere where they graduate these folks?"

"I am not familiar with any sanitarian school, but there are...no, it is not a sanitariam either. There are specific requirements. It requires a Bachelor's Degree with specialty in one of the health related fields."

"Alright now, is a man that inspects restaurants with a Master's Degree, would he be a sanitarian?"

"A sanitarian is somebody who meets a certain licensure requirement, and if he is a....if he inspected it, he would not necessarily be a sanitarian. But a sanitarian is somebody who, because they have met certain criteria, is entitled to call himself that."

"And sanitarians are men that some of them inspect restaurants. Is that right?"

"That is one of the things that they might do."

"And some of them inspect landfills. Is that right?"

"I believe so."

"And some of them inspect sewage plants. Is that right?"

"That is correct."

"And some inspect water plants."

"Right, all things relating to health." 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Alright, that is what I say and that is what the Sunset Committee said, speaking on the Bill, that this really isn't a profession. It is just a protected class of people that come in and get licensed. Some know something about preparing food, and they inspect restaurants. Others know something about sewage, and they inspect sewer plants. Other know something about water, and they inspect water plants. And some have to do with landfills. But really it is a grab bag. It is not a profession of sanitarian. There is no schools that graduate sanitarians. Many, many states don't have this licensure. The Sunset Committee took it up. The ones who employ sanitarians are governmental bodies. They can give civil service tests. They can inspect the qualifications of people. All the sanitarian is, is someone who sets up a license in conjunction with government so they can charge more money when they are hired for their services so they can keep other people out. And the Department of Public Health is a little two-faced here because, as they often are, because when the Sunset Committee...they didn't take this stand so strong for the sanitarians. We don't even know what a sanitarian is. It is a very vague, protected classification. It is just what the Sunset Committee was set up to do, was to phase out these useless licensure that set up protective classifications. If the cities and villages want to hire qualifed people, they can set the qualifications, and they can give civil service tests, and I intend to oppose this Bill which is in opposition to the recommendation of the Sunset Committee."

"Representative Bluthardt."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, the last Speaker just about hit the nail on the head. Sanitarians are a racket. You know that a municipality cannot hire a 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 health inspector unless he is a sanitarian. How do you get to be a sanitarian. I am still trying to find out. I know those who so support the position and want to call it a profession, many of those were grandfathered in when the Act was first enacted. They were sidewalk inspectors. They were sewer inspectors. Whatever they happened to be, they were grandfathered in. Now if you try to become an inspector, even a nurse can't become a sanitarian under the law, as I understand it. It is really there to protect those people and to kind of blackmail municipalities into paying large sums of money as salaries for so-called sanitarians. We don't need the Bill. We should do away with it as the Sunset Commission has recommended. I would ask you to vote 'no' on this Bill."

"Representative Sandquist."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would like to start off by correcting one thing. Representative Bower said that there was no opposition when we had hearings throughout the state on sanitarians. That is not true at all. We had substantial hearings throughout the state, and I must say that I just wish you would read this report that we put out. Because if there was ever one group that had a protected title, it is these sanitarians. There is nothing, as this report finds, that gives the public protection. They've got this broad classification of sanitarians. And as Representative Bluthardt just pointed out, that they use this broad classification not for the public good, but for their own protected title. And who hires these people? It is the local governments. And the local governments have all the ways of having protection to get the right people and the qualified people. And I just...if there was ever something that Sunset did, I know some of the others may have been a 60  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 little...you may not all have agreed with, but here on this broad classification of sanitarians, we were unanimous. The whole Committee was unanimous for this protected title. And the public does not get protected. It is only for their own good. And if we're ever going to cut out something and try to save money, this is one that we should eliminate, and I strongly urge a 'no' vote."

"Representative Katz."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the Sponsor uttered those immortal words that I keep hearing about. Those immortal words as, 'I believe in the Sunset process except'. And they always except their particular little part of this licensing gimmick that they are here to persuade you not to eliminate. Now here is a licensure that the Sunset Commission has found has, quote, 'both reduced competition and increased costs'. And that has been the effect of licensure in this field. At least half of the states never even undertook to license sanitarians in the first place. And with the growth of Sunset in the United States, one state, Florida, in 1977 actually eliminated saitarians. They eliminated the licensure of the sanitarians. The Sunset Commission found that there has been no adverse effect in Florida in eliminating the licensing over the sanitarians in 1977. That was four years ago. They eliminated it. They got rid of some licensure, and it has not adversely affected the State of Florida in any way. So, I would suggest that since this House almost unanimously adopted Sunset, and since here is an example of a needless licensure, one that only serves to reduce competition and increase costs, that occupies a field that local government can take care of without licensure, I believe that this is a great example for you to back up the Sunset vote that you gave two years ago, 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 sustain the Commission, and defeat this needless Bill."

"Representative J.J. Wolf."

"I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved the previous question. The question is 'Shall the main question be put?' All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Gentleman, Representative Bower, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would like to first correct several bits of misinformation that were just given to you by previous speakers. First of all, Illinois is one of 33 states that currently license sanitarians, so certainly more than half of the states do. Secondly, in response to what Representative Sandquist said about opposition, the Director of the Sunset Commission told me that there was absolutely no one that appeared in opposition at any of the hearings. If that is not correct, I was, was misinformed. In response to what Representative Pierce said, if we have sanitarians, some that inspect restaurants, some that inspect sewage plants, and some that inspect water facilities, it only goes along with an awful lot of other respective professions. We have insurance agents that specialize in different kinds of insurance. We have doctors that specialize in different areas of medicine, and certainly we lawyers specialize...or have specialties in certain areas of the law. So certainly the fact that sanitarians specialize in certain kinds of inspections is nothing unusual. This Bill passed the Committee 13 to 1. It...Representative Sandquist being the sole person voting 'no'. It was sponsored in the Senate by Senator Sangmeister. It is a matter of public health, and I urge an 'aye' vote." 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1143. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? The Lady from Cook, Represenative Currie to explain her vote. The timer is on."

"I am delighted to see all those 'no' votes up there."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Wikoff."

"Don't think I need to explain my vote, but I would like to give you a good example why we don't need this. In a small community in my district we had a mayor who was a licensed professional engineer. He was unable to inspect and operate their own water treatment plant simply because he was not a sanitarian."

"Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from Henderson, Representative Neff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not going to take much time the way this vote is because I think it is going the way I would hope it would go. Here we have a chance here to get rid of some regulations and have a Bill come along here to put them back in, unnecessary regulations. So I am happy to vote 'no'."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. There are 49 'aye', 114 'no', none voting 'present'. Senate Bill 1143 having failed to receive the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared lost. Representative Kane."

"Mr. Speaker, I would renew my request of you, and I couldn't agree with Representative Peters more. I have no objection at all to keeping on noncontroversial, non-political Bills. All I'm asking on behalf of the Members is that we know in advance where we're going. And 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 if you would give us some idea, I would appreciate it, and I think the rest of the Members would also."

"Thank you, Representative Kane. The next...we have one other Bill on this order, Senate Bill 1148, which is Representative Hallstrom. The we're going to go to the Insurance Code, Representative Kornowicz and Representative Braun. That is Senate Bill 89, and 1173, and 1073. Those three Bills on the Insurance Code. Yes, Sir, Representative Kane."

"Unless you can give us more advanced notice than that, and I would suggest that you put out a whole list of the subjects that you're going to go with. And unless you can give us that committment, I would like to be recognized for a Motion to go to the priority of call."

"Well, Sir, you have not been, nor will you be recognized for that purpose. I will give you as much notice as I have, and we are now going to go on with Representative Hallstrom. After that, Sir, we are going to go to the Insurance Code, the Bills that I stated, pursuant to the Rules of the House. Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, just to follow up on Representative Kane's request. We have seen the Chair establish subject matter special orders on several occassions this Session, and I think that the main item of concern by all of the Members would be as Mr. Kane said, some advanced notice. And you have moved us ahead about five Bills now, and I would simply suggest that it might be possible for you to tell us maybe 10, 15 Bills in advance what we'll be considering."

"I will do my best to honor your request, Representative Madigan. I now have the next order of business. One second, Representative Kane, we're trying to cooperate with you totally, Sir. The next...after Representative Hallstrom's Bill, we will go to the 64  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Insurance Code Bills, the Bills that I read. So all those Sponsors, Representative Kornowicz, Representative Braun, and Representative Birkinbine should be ready. Then after that we will go to Bills dealing with the EPA, the Environmental Protection Act. And those Bills, four in number, Senate Bills 1160, 1086, 1110, and 1193. Representative Meyer, Hannig, Findley, and Meyer. Now those are the list of Bills that I have. That will take us some time. When I get the next special order of business, I will tell you as soon as I receive it. Representative Kane."

"I appreciate your concern, Mr. Speaker, and I would ask that you keep us informed as long as possible in advance, and I would point you to Rule 4 Paragraph S, which says that the Speaker may decide, subject to the control and will of the Members, all questions relating to the priority of business. And I would suggest that if there is a Motion to go to the priority of call or to the regular Calendar, that you cannot ignore that Motion."

"That Motion is properly put, Sir. But I will honor your request to the best of my abilibty. When I receive the information, you will have that information. Now may I suggest to you all that we had, beginning today, 146 Bills. We are going to attempt to call the Bills as quickly as possible so that each and every Member of the House is given the opportunity to present their Bills. That is our goal. Midnight tonight is the deadline pursuant to this House request. So if we might get on, I want to go now to Representative Hallstrom and her Bill, Senate Bill 1148. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1148, a Bill for an Act concerning the regulation of Orthotic and Prosthetic practice. Third Reading of the Bill." 65  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Representative Hallstrom."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill creates the licensure for orthotists and prosthetists. For those of you who do not know what these professions do, it is a very important service to over 200,000 people in this state who have some kind of a handicap. The orthotists do fit the braces such as I personally wear myself in order for me to be mobile. The prosthetists are the ones who do make the artificial limbs. If there is any profession that needs to be licensed in this state, I sincerely believe that this is one of them. The State Medical Society supports this Bill. It came out of Health and Family Services 11 to nothing. It creates a Board which will oversee to make sure that all the people involved in this profession do have the high standards, the ethical standards, the education. It provides for a continuing educational program. I certainly would ask for your support on one of the most important licensing Bills, I think, that we have. Thank you."

"Lady's moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1148. Is there any discussion? Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative Darrow."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Last year, I believe it was, we had this similar legislation and there was an individual named Barr, I believe, from around the Joliet area, who had a clinic or some school that provided services such as this. I subsequently saw a 60 minute program which featured him. What would his relationship be to this legislation?"

"Representative Hallstrom."

"Certainly, Representative Darrow, and he does operate the Institute for Advancement of Prosthetics, Prosthetics 66  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 in Lancing, Michigan. Bill Barr, I have tried to get a hold of in regard to this particular piece of legislation so many times I can't tell you, and I have never heard back from him. To be actually as honest as I can be with you, I think Mr. Barr would want a tighter piece of legislation. This is the best piece of legislation, I think, we can put together now in order to get the licensing."

"This would not create a monopoly where Mr. Barr would have the only school or program to come under this statute would it?"

"Absolutely not, Sir. Mr. Barr has really had nothing to do with this particular piece of legislation."

"Why is it not possible to have physicians include courses of this nature in their medical training?"

"Sir,..."

"So that way your physician could fit the braces."

"Well, Sir, the Medical Society supports this Bill as it is. There has never been that particular approach. There is not, maybe, the need for every physician to have this kind of training. The.. My particular experience is that when I first needed the brace, I was fitted when I was in the hospital but then I did not have to keep in touch with my physician and I sought out a person who made these braces myself. I was very fortunate that I found one who was actually very able and qualified to do this, but I could have gotten to one who could have destroyed my opportunity to walk again."

"Now, are we grandfathering anyone in under this legislation?"

"Yes, Sir. At the present time, they are grandfathering in the people who have been involved, who have been in practice more than five years."

"So we would be, actually, licensing the good with the 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 bad."

"Sir, I know that that is a weak point in the Bill, but, as I explained, this is the best Bill that we could put together in order to get it past the Legislature, at least to get them licensed. I have promised the Sunset Commission, the Department of Registration and Education, everyone else who's involved in this subject to sit down with them this summer, and, if there are needs for strengthening for incidents, that they would have to take a test in two years, I am very willing to do this."

"Now, are there any minimum standards set down in this legislation as to who can practice this art?"

"Yes, Sir, there are. They are not spelled out in the Legislation, but they are handled through the Board and, to my understanding, regulated through the Department of Registration and Education. When I did my physical therapy Bill, it was my understanding, through the Department of R and E that they did not want specific curricula set down in the legislation itself; that that was handled through the Board that was set up."

"By that you mean the Board of Examiners that will be set up under this licensure Act?"

"Yes, Sir."

"And that Board will then set up the standards for who can practice that art?"

"Yes, Sir, but it's based fairly on what provisions, the provisions that they have had, the right amount of education and the right kind of education. Representative Darrow, honestly, this is somewhat a new profession in the sense that in the old days when a person had a stroke, very often, they stayed at home or stayed in a wheel chair. I think the Veteran's Administration, through the help that's been given to veterans because of the kinds of accidents 68  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 that happened to them in the war, they have come up with the idea that, certainly, these people can be helped. And I don't want to do this on a personal basis except it is so important to me for you to understand that the people who do the kind of thing that I need have to be licensed so that we make sure there are not charlatans out there who are making plastic braces for people which look very simple but, actually, if they are not fitted and that does provide for this in this Bill that they are custom fitted for the individual, could do a great deal of harm to the health of that individual."

"Do you know what the Sunset recommendation was for this legislation?"

"Yes, I do, Sir."

"And what was that?"

"I have it right here and although they found some points in the Bill that they were not.. that they felt should be strengthened as I mentioned before, I can read exactly what they said if you would like. Although the unregulated practice of Orthotics and Prosthetics appears to result in some degree of harm to certain Illinois residents, and although a program to regulate orthotists and prosthetists may well be needed, the proposed program had some defaults in it that they felt should be... the point should be strengthened. And I have said that I would sit down with them. The general feeling, and I sat with them for an hour and a half, is that, honestly, that this is a profession that needs to be licensed."

"Thank you. To the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed, Sir."

"This is a very difficult decision to make on licensing this occupation or profession because it's been shown, on a number of occasions, that a great deal of good can be done 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 if you go to the right professional. However, the Sunset Commission felt this legislation itself was defective, that it would be better if we would hold it, go into further study of it and work out some of the technical difficulties. It is for this reason that I will be voting 'no' on the Bill. I'm sure other Members of the General Assembly will also like to speak to this issue. Thank you."

"Representative Dwight Friedrich."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I don't know anyone that's better qualified to speak with personal knowledge on this subject than the Sponsor of this Bill. I know it's a very frustrating thing for someone who has the problem and can't find somebody reliable to go to or direct other people to when they have the same problem. I don't know whether you read the Reader's Digest last month which described in detail the problems that Mr. Barr and his son had on this very subject and the problem they had of finding competent doctors or doctors who were willing to specialize in this field. Now, this may be... The passage of this legislation may be the opportunity of somebody to walk. I doubt if any of the people in the Sunset Commission ever had this problem or had any personal knowledge of anybody that had the problem. So I think we're dealing here with something that's really a human thing that we need to get into. These people are entitled to know and we're talking about real dollars for some people who have very few dollars, and it may make the difference of whether they're able to walk or whether they spend their money on someone who gives them very incompetent and very poor equipment. I think you ought to support this Bill."

"Representative Sandquist." 70  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I really have to rise with a heavy heart because there is nobody I would rather talk against here than my good friend, Dolly Hallstrom, but I do have to rise and tell you what really is involved here. We did have substantial hearings last year on Representative Garmisa's Bill, which was somewhat stronger than this, and he finally realized that it needed more study and he put his in the Subcommittee to be studied over the year. Now, this Bill has come out and Representative Hallstrom says it's the only game in town. That may well be, but we should not put something through that is not going to help these people under the guide that it's the only game in town because I'd like to read on to what the Sunset Commission found on this. 'In finding that while we think these people may need protection, there is no protection in this Bill because the proposed new program strengthens it. It fails to establish minimum educational standards as a prerequisite to licensure. It fails to relate competency standards to a well-defined body of knowledge. And third', as Representative Hallstrom admitted through grandfathering, 'All the people in now would be in for the future'. So there are no protections here. This may well be somewhere where we should have something, but this is not the Bill to do it and there's no way to amend it. This is one that would go on and we'd be better off to have nothing than to have this Bill which would only be fooling the people in the public that they had some protection, and; therefore, reluctantly, I must urge a 'no' vote."

"Representative Vitek."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. May I ask the Sponsor a question?"

"She indicates she'll yield." 71  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Dolly, you know, I used to wear a brace up to my hip years ago and thank God we had a brace maker. He wasn't licensed, but he recommended I wear a special orthopedic shoe. I started out with paying 27.50 for a pair of shoes and now they cost me 350 dollars, but thank God I'm able to walk with out the brace. I would hope someday that you would be benefited like I did. Now, will this effect the orthopedic shoemakers? Will they have to be licensed? The shoemakers now."

"No, it's not effecting anyone who sells the shoes."

"They make the shoes for me."

"They make the shoes for you, but it is the orthotists who prescribes or gives the prescription for the kind of shoe that you need and the brace to fit on it. But the person who makes the shoe is not licensed to... other than directions."

"That answers my question. Thank you."

"Representative Jim Kelley."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"Gentleman's moved the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?'. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The main question's put. Representative Hallstrom, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. As reluctant as Elroy was, I am as reluctant to disagree with him. I really didn't say it's the only game in town. This is too serious a matter, you know, to put it in such, as far as I'm concerned, in a frivolous way. What I said was that we have worked very hard and last year we had the same problem. There is no way we seem to be able to come up with a Bill that's going to satisfy everyone. To my way of thinking and from my personal experience, this 72  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 is going to help people who have to go for either an artificial limb or have to go for a brace such as I have. There is really... I don't understand why they're saying that these people will not have the training. They will have the training. That is written into the Bill. It's just the specific courses that are not written into the Bill. They will have to be examined through the Department of Registration and Education. I would ask you, please, to recognize that the people in this position certainly are in a minority and thank God they are. But for everyone of these people who have to go to a professional for help, please let them be sure when they go to a professional that they're going to one who really has had the training to be able to help them and not to a charlatan who just wants to make money on them. I would ask, please, for your support of this piece of legislation. Thank you."

"Question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1148 pass?'. All those in favor will signify by saying 'aye', opposed by voting 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Epton, to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a conflict of interest, but, as always, I'll vote my conscience."

"Representative Vinson, to explain his vote. Timer's on, Sir."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The Sponsor has spent an enormous amount of time working on this legislation. She's approached it from a very objective point of view. Some of the criticisms, I just don't believe, are valid. When she talked... When some of the critics talk about the grandfathering clause; we've started off with every new licensing Act 73  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 grandfathering people. It's a necessity. It's a practical, political necessity. I would urge people to vote for this Bill to get it over the requisite number. I see that's done."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. There are 111 'aye', 37 'no', 3 'present'. Senate Bill 1148, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the next Special Order of Business is the Insurance Code. We have three Bills on the Insurance Code, as stated before. Senate Bill 89, Representative Kornowicz, Senate Bill 1073, Representative Birkinbine, and Senate Bill 1173, Representative Braun. First Bill, Senate Bill 89, Representative Kornowicz. The Clerk will read the Bill. Representative Kornowicz."

"I would like to get this on the Spring Calendar, please."

"The Gentleman asks leave to have Senate Bill 89 placed on the Spring Calendar. Does he have leave? Leave is granted. Senate Bill 89 will be on the Spring Calendar. Senate Bill 1073, Representative Birkinbine. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1073, a Bill for an Act to amend the Insurance Code to Non-profit Health Care Service Plan Act, Medical Service Plan Act, and Voluntary Health Service Plan Act, Third Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1073. Representative Birkinbine. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1073, a Bill for an Act to amend the Insurance Code, the Nonprofit Health Care Service Plan Act, the Medical Service Plan Act, the Voluntary Health Service Plan Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Birkinbine." 74  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill (sic, Senate Bill) 1073 has a number of items requested by the 1073 I think is the number we want- has a number of items requested by the Department of Insurance. It is ...It makes corrections and cross reference changes. Changes to the Insurance Code include: requiring companies adding clauses of authority are subject to whatever capital and surplus requirements are in effect; provides the Department, the Director to authorize an impaired or insolvent company to continue to issue contracts under certain circumstances; establishes late fines of $100.00 a day for late filing of registrations; fines under several different circumstances; provides audits of domestic companies' cash and securities from June 1. I know that Mr. Levin had some concern with this Bill some while back. I think we've come to an agreement with him. I would ask for an 'aye' vote."

"Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, we are having a great deal of difficulty with our electronic equipment, voting equipment. The previous Bill has not printed out so we're unable to move forward. Okay. Representative O'Brien, for what purpose do you arise, Sir?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, as the Minority Spokesman on the Insurance Committee, I rise to ask some questions of the Sponsor of the Bill and I'd like to start out by asking him if he will take this Bill back to Second Reading to entertain any of the eight Amendments that are laying on the Speaker's desk for consideration?"

"Senator (sic, Representative) Birkinbine."

"No. I chose not to..."

"Senate Bill 1073.."

"I'm carrying this Bill frankly at the request of the 75  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Department of Insurance and they don't see the need for the various Amendments that have been offered, so I prefer to go with the Bill and explain the concerns that anyone might have about the various portions of the Bill."

"Representative O'Brien."

"Well, will the Sponsor yield for a few questions?"

"He indicates he will."

"Yes."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker and Members, Sponsor of the Bill, you indicated that there was a provision in this Bill for a hundred dollar per day fine for those insurance companies that do not file their annual statements, such as Legislators have to file. Is that correct?"

"That is right for late filings."

"Well, I understand, Mr. Birkinbine, that this Bill deletes the provisions that requires the Director of Insurance to assess a penalty of $100.00 per day and the Director of Insurance, at his discretion, may waive that penalty for those individuals. The Amendment that I have on the Speaker's desk requires that the penalty be intact. Without the Amendment, the Director of the Department of Insurance would be allowed, at his discretion, to pass over any penalty that any company may have for not filing their annual statements and I don't think that's fair. We, as Legislators, are required to file annual statements and I can't see why the insurance companies shouldn't be mandated to file their statements."

"Well, Mr. O'Brien, it does not allow the Director to waive the penalty. It does allow the Director to reduce the penalty at his discretion. A hundred dollar a day penalty can be especially significant to some of the town and country mutual benefit societies which operate..."

"Representative Birkinbine, we have in the Code right 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 now a penalty of $100.00 a day. Why should we allow the Director discretion to do away with $90.00 a day or $100.00 a day if he sees fit? This gives him complete control and complete power. I mean, these companies should be required. They are required right now by Statute. Why give the Director the additional power to pass over and give a free break to the insurance companies when they don't file their statements? You, Representative Birkinbine, file a statement of ethics when you sit here. Why shouldn't these companies in Illinois continue under the program that we have for years?"

"For the same reason I explained that $100.00 a day is an arbitrary number and there are a great many small town and county mutuals and benefit societies for which this would be a severe penalty, perhaps more so than is required."

"Well, Representative Birkinbine, I disagree with you. I think that they should be required to pay the penalty if they don't meet the Code. I think this is an absolute power grab on the part of the Director and I'd like to move on to another Amendment that I have that's seated on the desk in relation to the Bill so that I and the Members here understand it. Amendment #6 restores the provision deleted in the Bill that no policy or family group, accident and health insurance may be issued in Illinois unless a copy of the policy has been filed and approved by the Department and the Director. Why have we deleted the requirement that they file that policy with the Director? Any why can those policies be issued without being filed with the Department?"

"Because it's covered under a different Section of the Code. A family group policy, they're not pure group life insurance. They are individual policies." 77  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I have another Amendment. This Bill has been portrayed on your Calendar, on your Priority of Call, as a Bill making technical changes to the Insurance Code. Amendment #7 deals with an entirely different subject matter, a subject matter that was passed by Representative Epton last year when we created the Lloyds of London for the State of Illinois or the Insurance Exchange, which I voted for and I felt was good. But when we passed that provision, we required that there be a public hearing held before we instituted the Insurance Exchange in the State of Illinois. This Bill does not make technical changes. And this Bill does away with the provision in the Insurance Exchange Bill requiring a public hearing. Can you answer that question for me, Representative Birkinbine?"

"Yes, I'd be more than happy to. The Amendment you're referring to is a Bill that got caught up in the switches before. The present restrictions that we have are such that they impair the Department's ability to review and inspect. The lessening of these regulations actually aid the regulators."

"Well, I can't understand why we should do away with a public hearing when we're..when the original Bill, which was a model Bill according to Representative Epton, and it was voted on by the Members in this House, I can't understand why, now, once we adopted that model Bill, which required a public hearing, why this merely technical Bill would do away with the public hearing when we institute the Insurance Exchange in the State of Illinois? I have one other question, Representative Birkinbine, in relation to these technical changes that you have in the Insurance Code. Amendment #8, which I offered to the Bill, deletes the provision added by the Bill that an impaired or 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 insolvent or bankrupt company, insurance company, may issue or renew policies without notification to the insured as to the condition of the company if the Director approves. Representative Birkinbine, why, in God's name, would we allow insolvent companies in the State of Illinois to continue to issue new policies and renew their policies to those people that they are insuring without notifying the general public and the policyholders? This Bill seems to give a tremendous amount of discretionary powers to the Director."

"Well, I remind you first off that we have a guaranteed fund so that there's no way people could lose. I would also say that quite often an impaired or insolvent company have available..companies have available to them other sources of capital. Normally these funds might come into a company say through the issuance of guaranteed funds, guaranteed shares or subordinated indebtedness or capital stock. Simply because they go below a certain level doesn't mean that they are insolvent. Again, this would be at the discretion of the Director..."

"Representative Birkinbine, that has been in the Insurance Code for a number of years. Why now, when we have an insolvent company, will we allow them.."

"...Well, we have the guaranteed fund."

"Will we allow them at the...Well, you know, I'm not so sure that the FDIC is going to save my $40,000.00 bank account if a bank goes under in the State of Illinois either. Why change the Code now? Why give that discretionary power to the Director? I think that the public ought to be informed if they've got insurance with an insurance company that is on the verge of bankruptcy and I can't understand why the Director, at his discretion, would prohibit that insurance company or the public from 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 knowing. And if anybody takes the time to page through this Bill you will find all throughout the Bill little phrases that are being added like, 'unless otherwise allowed by the Director', 'unless allowed by the Director', etcetera, etcetera, all the way through. This is probably the worst insurance Bill that I have seen in my six years in the House and two years in the Senate. I can't understand why you indicate technical changes. This is a blatant power grab on the part of the Director of Insurance. This is a bad Bill for the industry, believe me, in the long run and it is a bad Bill for the consumers. And I think you should have taken it back to Second Reading and listened to Representative Levin's Amendments and some of the Amendments that I had and I would encourage all Members to take a long look, a hard look at this Bill and to vote 'no'."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Preston."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I take issue with some of the comments of the previous speaker, though I greatly respect his ability and his eloquence and the study that he has given to this issue. While I don't take issue with some of the principles that he brought up concerning the criticism of the Bill itself, perhaps he is right. However, when he criticizes the Director of the Department of Insurance, those of us who have had the opportunity to work with the Director of the Department of Insurance have found him to be a very open, very reasonable, hard working, able individual. I don't...The description of the Director as making a power grab in this Bill I think is very inaccurate and unfair to an individual who is not here at this time to defend himself against those kinds of remarks. The 80  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Director has been diligent in working with people, with members of public bodies, with members of the public at large and is always very open and very accessible to anyone who questions him or has reasonable suggestions for him to take into consideration. So, I would like that to be stated on the record so people understand the nature of the individual who is being the subject of this criticism. Thank you."

"Representative Giorgi."

"A question of the Sponsor."

"Indicates he'll yield."

"Representative Birkinbine, I notice you're giving the Director more authority..."

"Discretion."

"Yes.."

"Discretion and authority are two different things."

"Sure, okay. Is there anything in this Bill that's going to correct what occurred in this last week when the courts found the insurance company swindling the employers of Illinois to the tune of a billion and a half dollars in the Workmen's Comp field?"

"It may change your style, but I suggest you reread the newspaper about what actually happened. The ruling was that there was insufficient information provided in that case and therefore the 23% increase was to be changed. It did not say they were swindled. It did not say that the increase was actually wrong. It simply said there was insufficient evidence provided at the time. If that's swindle to you I'm glad you're not my lawyer."

"I'm glad you used the word swindle because I want to keep using it. But the Director of Insurance is the guy that helps provide the insurance..provides the facts and the statistics that the Workmen's Comp people predicate 81  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 their increases on. He has employees under his jurisdiction that are members of an independent group that provides that statistics. Our Department of Insurance is the key person in providing those statistics. Now is that going to be corrected? Are there going to be safeguards in there so this doesn't happen again? You know, we've been saying for years we knew that the insurance companies were gouging the employers of Illinois. No one listened to us and someone had to go to court so that the court could tell us that yes, indeed, they were swindling the employers of Illinois in about a billion and a half dollars. Now, I want to know if..."

"Mr. Speaker, could there...is there going to be any discussion here relative to this Amendment (sic, Bill) or is it going to be a speech against the insurance companies?..."

"Well, I don't just want you answering questions you feel like answering. I want to put it in the record what I want to put on the record also.."

"...Fine. Why don't you ask for personal privilege then to do so?"

"Certainly. Today seems to be the day for farmers, for businessmen and a lot of parasites of the public. Now, are you expanding the patronage base for the Governor in your last paragraph?"

"Mr..Representative Giorgi, would you please limit your...."

"Yes, I asked..."

"...Line of questioning to the Bill?"

"...Is the Governor expanding his patronage base in the last paragraph of this Bill? The last paragraph of the Bill is on page five, lines 26 through 31."

"Is he expanding his patronage base?" 82  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Yes, you're going to...The Governor is going to direct the insurance companies that do business in Illinois ..are going to have to hire employees at his will and his decision...."

"..Well, if he is..."

"Representative Giorgi, excuse me. To the Bill, Sir. To the Bill."

"I'm asking Mr. Birkinbine a question, Mr. Speaker. In this last paragraph, it indicates the Governor is going to be able to direct insurance companies to hire people. We have 400 insurance companies that do business in the State of Illinois and that means the Governor can expand his patronage base in the 50 states if this becomes law. Now is that a case in fact or is it not?"

"That's not how I read the Bill."

"How do you read it?"

"You might...You might be relieved however that if indeed patronage is increased, chances are the Democrats will get 80% of it."

"The Governor is Republican and I'm sure the Director is of the same persuasion...."

"What page are you referring to?"

"...And seem to be following Reagan's steps in taking care of big business here. But continue."

"What page are you referring..."

"Representative Schuneman, for what purpose do you arise?"

"Mr. Speaker, we've heard all this before. This has nothing to do with this Bill. Let's talk about the Bill that's in question. We're trying to make some kind of great issue out of this rather simple Bill. Ask the Gentleman to speak to the issue if he understands the issue at all." 83  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Representative Giorgi, would you please confine your remarks to the Bill?"

"Yes, I think that when Representative Schuneman gets up to take the floor on an insurance Bill..."

"Representative Giorgi.."

"..He ought to tell us..."

"..To the Bill, Sir.."

"...Insurance broker. Now I want an answer to that last question. Is this going to expand the Director's base of patronage at the direction of the Governor because they've both of the same political persuasion in that he's going to force insurance companies that do business in Illinois and there are over 400 from all the 50 states..Does that mean we're going to have Illinoisans working in all of the 50 states of the Union at the pleasure of the Governor and the Director's Office? That's my question."

"No."

"Are you sure? Because I don't want to read in a couple of years we're filing suit and then the court's going to find you a liar. I hate to have that happen, you know."

"Representative Giorgi, to the Bill, Sir. He answered your question."

"I think I've made my points, Mr. Speaker."

"Okay. Thank you, Sir. Further discussion? Representative Cullerton?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I just wanted to clear up one thing. Many people here know Director O'Conner to be a very fine Director of Insurance, really a true friend of the consumer and he happens to be a personal friend, lives in my Legislative District. But, when we pass a law that gives discretion to the Director of Insurance that is going to be a law on the books. Director O'Conner may not be here next week and 84  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 then we will be giving discretion to someone else who may not be so protective of the rights of the consumer, as Director O'Conner is. And that's why, even though we may personally today be very..have a lot of confidence in a Director, we must keep in mind that we should not give away so much discretion to someone who may not be agreeable with our particular point of view. And therefore I think that this is a bad Bill because it does give away too much discretion and I would ask for a 'no' vote."

"Representative Stearney."

"Will the Gentleman yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Well, I notice on page ten, line nine, it does read, quote, '..unless otherwise allowed by the Director..', unquote, and then goes on to say. Why do we have such language? Isn't it possible to write standards into the Bill, into the law?"

"Representative Birkinbine."

"...So that the company is bound by the Legislature and not merely the discretion or the whim of the Director?"

"Excuse me. Representative J.J. Wolf, for what purpose do you arise, Sir?"

"On a point of Parliamentary inquiry. Are we on explanation of vote or questions?"

"Once again, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, just so you know where we're at at the present time. If I might have your attention please? We're having a great deal of difficulty with the electronic equipment. There seems to be something that's severely wrong with it. We don't know what's happened. We've been unable to print out the last Roll Call. There...Excuse me. Representative Matijevich, if I might have your attention so all Members can hear the explanation. We are copying the Roll Call now 85  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 manually. The Gentleman on my right is copying it manually so we may have a record of the last Roll Call, which was Senate Bill 1070....11...What was the number, Mr. Clerk? 1148. We are unable to take the Roll on the Bill that we're dealing with at the present time. That's why I haven't recognized anyone to cut off debate and looks like you'll have an opportunity to debate. So the Roll on the Board, Representative Wolf, is from the previous Bill. Representative Wolf?"

"Thank you. I think maybe the electronic Roll might be screwed up because of all the chatter in explanation of vote. It must have got inside the machine. You might consider...It might be your blind eye, Mr. Speaker."

Speaker Daniels: "Your point might be well taken. Now, Representative Stearney, you were inquiring of Representative Birkinbine. Continue, Sir."

"Mr. Birkinbine, let me rephrase the question. On page ten it deals with an insurance company that is insolvent or on the verge of insolvency because the language is that the ..if the..that an impairment must be removed within a period of not more than 30 to 90 days. And then the language goes on to say that the company must discontinue the issuance of new or renewal policies while such impairment exists. So now we know that we have an insolvent insurance company, but this Bill goes on further to say that in the discretion of the Director, now the company can continue to write policies. And that is contrary to existing law. Why would we want to change that and allow an insolvent insurance company to go on writing new business in the discretion of the Director?"

"Well, Mr. Stearney, we discussed that earlier with the initial questioner. The language that's added to the Bill is obviously discretionary. The reason why you might 86  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 have a so-called impaired or insolvent company when the Director recognizes it to be feasible to be able to go on and write policies is that funds come in that can correct that impaired or insolvent position, be it through guaranteed funds, guaranteed shares, subordinated indebtedness or capital stock. Reinsurance can also be used. There are a number of different ways."

"Well, the existing law precludes the an insolvent insurance company from writing new business. Am I right? That's existing law."

"Yes, as I understand it."

"Okay. Now you want to say that you want to change that law and say in the discretion of the Director an insolvent insurance company can write business. What bothers me is that wouldn't it jeopardize the premiums paid by these new policyholders if they're buying into ...paying premiums to an insolvent insurance company?"

"Well, in the past we did not have the guaranteed fund that we now have. We discussed all this a few minutes ago. Where were you?"

"Well, I was here. I wasn't paying too much attention until I heard Mr. Giorgi speak on this issue and I thought I wanted my answer. I'm sorry. But nevertheless, I don't see that the Director should have such discretion and jeopardize the policyholders who are paying premiums into an insolvent insurance company."

"Representative Henry."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, point of order. I'd like to know what posture the Bill is in. I thought we were finished with debate. We hang on and drag on and this is why we're working till 12:00, 1:00 o'clock tonight. Are we through with debate or what? Could you explain to me what position we are in now?" 87  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Yes, Sir. We are in the course of debate. On the Bill, Representative John Dunn."

"Not on the Bill, Mr. Speaker, but a point of inquiry. I understand the rules provide that electrical Roll Call shall be taken unless the system is not working. But I don't see anything in the rules about a procedure to take care of Roll Calls manually and I would inquire of the Chair, if this does continue, what procedure shall we follow so that both sides of the aisle can be satisfied that manual Roll Calls are being kept to their satisfaction?"

"We will take an Oral Roll Call."

"Thank you very much."

"Further questions? Representative Peters."

"Just a suggestion, Mr. Speaker, that if we should have Oral Roll Calls each side should be allowed three additional tellers and two others to ensure that the totals are correct and then we ought to put a Committee together to in fact study that Roll Call to see if it is correct. I just throw that out as a suggestion."

"Did you want an Oversight Board, Sir?"

"I'll file a Motion."

"Sounds like the RTA. Representative Emil Jones. Emil Jones."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Also in response to that, we should have some good Democrat precinct captains to watch the Oral Roll Call and we can get some Republican precinct captains from DuPage County and make sure the figures are accurate."

"Is there further debate on the Bill? Representative Birkinbine to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The debate on this Bill has been characterized not 88  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 so much by debate, but by either knee-jerk reaction against an industry that certain people in the House don't like and what apparently is a conflict of interest with one...or a conflict in personality with one of the questioners and the present Director. The ...In virtually every department in State Government, the Director or head of that department has a certain amount of discretionary authority given him. I have yet to hear an argument on this Bill as to why the limited discretionary ability that this Bill would give the Director of Insurance is in any way bad. Every question that has been asked I think has been answered. I also reflect on the fact that this Bill was heard before the House Insurance Committee that the Minority Spokesman on that Committee was sent an analysis of all the Sections on this Bill prior to the...by the Director prior to the Committee being held. The Minority Spokesman did not bother to attend the Session when this was being voted on and the Bill passed 13 to nothing. There was no opposition to it. I don't know why ..what conflicts have arisen that have raised all these questions, but I don't think that they're that valid and I would solicit an 'aye' vote. Thank you."

"All right. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, will all Members please be in their seats? We must take an Oral Roll Call. The machine has broken down. We're talking to North Dakota and other places to see if we can have parts flown in. So in an effort...Yes, it's a real problem. The Clerk will proceed with an Oral Roll Call. When your name is called, please stand. State your vote, 'yes', 'no', or 'present'. Representative Vinson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. In the interests of time, given the fact that the machine is broken, I would request that the Roll Call be an 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Oral Verified Roll Call. That will avoid the problem of going through verifications and counter-verifications all day which could consume enormous time."

"Our problem is that we can take the vote, we just can't copy it on the equipment. So the vote will show on the Board, but it just can't be copied the Roll Calls cannot be copied on the equipment. It is the suggestion and concurrence of the Minority Leader that what we do is we take the Roll Calls supplied by the Clerk's Office and we have that broken into four columns that we have four people from the Clerk's Office copy from the Board the Roll Call appearing on the Board and we will take two pages from the Democrat side and two pages from the Republican side to read from the Board to the Members of the Clerk's Office. We will announce the final tally of the Bill into the record so that the official tally is recorded in to the record so that there is that record and we'll use that tally mechanism as an effort to try to assist the Members of the House so that we can have your legislation debated and voted upon until such time as the equipment is repaired. Mr. Madigan?"

"Mr. Speaker, it sounds okay to me unless any Member of the Body has a further suggestion. The proposal was made to me. It appears to be made in good faith."

"Representative Boucek."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a suggestion that will speed up the whole matter. I have a great deal of confidence in our Speaker and I recommend that we have a voice vote and you use the gavel."

"Representative Yourell."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since it's obvious that the electronic voting device is not the only thing that's broken down around here, I move now to adjourn sine die." 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Representative Satterthwaite."

"Mr. Speaker, I believe we have a number of photographers around on staff. Wouldn't it be feasible while the Roll Call vote is up there to have a photographer come in, photograph that Roll Call and then the Clerk's staff could go ahead and duplicate it on their sheet, but they would be able to verify it against the picture that the photographer had taken."

"Representative O'Brien."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to be recognized at the appropriate time to explain my vote. There have been some comments made in relation to the Director. I'd like to.."

"You will be, Sir."

"Thank you."

"Representative Telcser. Representative Telcser?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I was only going to comment that there's got to be colored film. Some lights are green. Representative, some are red. It takes a long time to develop color film. I like your idea but..."

"All right. Representative Mautino."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. You have asked for suggestions. Since the electronic..."

"No, Sir. I didn't ask for suggestions, but you may go ahead and offer one if you want.."

"Well, I would like to make a suggestion. I think the missing parts are down on the second floor cause they haven't put it all together, number one. And number two, my second suggestion is it's not time yet to call for the bomb squad in case there's a bomb scare since the parts aren't all put together yet. So I suggest that if we get all the heads together down on the second floor we wouldn't have all this delay." 91  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Perhaps, Representative Mautino, you'd like to walk down there and put them in order and then report back to us. Representative Wikoff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Undoubtedly this is going to extend the time concern on every Bill. In order to possibly ease that a little bit I would think it might be appropriate that at least until the mechanism is fixed that we eliminate the explanation of votes."

"Okay. The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1073 pass?'. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', opposed by voting 'no'. The voting is open. Representative O'Brien to explain his vote. Timer's on, Sir. Your voting switch is...Representative O'Brien, didn't you speak in debate?"

"...For the opportunity to explain my vote, Mr. Speaker?"

"Not if you spoke in debate, Sir. Objections have been raised. I'm sorry, Sir. Representative Epton."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker..."

"Excuse me. Representative O'Brien, state your point."

"Mr. Speaker, my name was used in debate in relation to some comments that were attributed to me in relation to the Director and I would like to have them cleared up for the record. First of all, I have no problem with the Director. I think he is doing a fine job. My problems are with this Bill and the technicalities that are in this Bill. And if there's any knee-jerk reaction on my part or anybody else's part, it is to the Calendar printing technical changes when there are substantive..substantial changes in this and I am going to ask for a Verified Roll Call on this question should it reach 89 votes, Mr. Speaker."

"Further discussion? Representative Epton." 92  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, in recognizing me to explain my vote. I realize that certain...valid questions were certainly answered ..er..were asked. But if you had listened to the responses by my colleagues on this side of the aisle they should have been satisfactorily answered. The fact is that the Director is given minimal discretion. All of us know that some companies sometimes are on the brink of insolvencies and may, in fact, be insolvent. Occasionally assets are realized which heretofore hadn't been discovered. But I would leave you all with the final reminder that if there is any harm, if there is any loss, it's borne entirely by the insurance industry. Not one consumer gets hurt by this. So that even though the synopsis is in error in misleading some of you, there is nothing in this Bill that isn't warranted even though it does correct one of my previous Bills which I thought was quite good. And I would suggest that you vote in favor of the passage of this Bill."

"Further discussion? Representative Huff?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. In explanation of my vote, it was recently revealed, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, that we passed some legislation that would have given the insurers of the State of Illinois a 20% discount if they would install anti-theft devices in their cars. Since that Bill has passed the insurance companies have refused to pass on that discount. I'm giving the Director...it's my belief that in passing this Bill we will give the Director of Insurance the power to enforce and to investigate the reasons for the insurance companies not giving this discount. If he doesn't do it, I'm on the assumption that what the General Assembly gives it can also take away. So I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to Director O'Conners and see if he will do 93  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 anything about this latest situation."

"Further discussion? Representative Huskey."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, in explaining my 'yes' vote, I don't think there is any department that the Director has as little authority as the Director of the Department of Insurance. There's been many, many times when I've had, being a noninsurance man and knowing very little about the insurance business, I have to contact the Insurance Director here in Springfield to resolve some insurance problems that I have in my district. And I find out that their hands are tied on most issues. It's about time we start working with the Directors in bringing the Insurance Departments in with the other bureaucratic departments so at least we can get some problems resolved when we do have an insurance problem. And your 'yes' vote I think would help resolve a lot of those problems that we do have with the Directors."

"Representative Schuneman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker.."

"Representative Giorgi?"

"He spoke in debate.."

"You are correct, Sir..."

"If he wants to speak on this issue he tells up front that he's an insurance broker. He's regulated by the Director of Insurance..."

"..Representative Giorgi, make your point. Cut him off.."

"...And I want that on the record.."

"Representative Giorgi, you may make your point. Let's not have any further personal attacks on Members of the House. Representative Schuneman, I believe you did speak in debate, Sir. Representative Schuneman, state your point." 94  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Mr. Speaker, I rose on point...I stood on a point of order, previously. I did not speak to this issue. May I proceed?"

"Proceed, Sir."

"On this issue, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, you've heard a lot of talk, a lot of railing against insurance companies and I join you in a lot of those complaints. But, it makes no sense to talk about things that are not in this Bill. This is a very simple Bill. It simply gives the Director of Insurance some discretion which he should have to protect your interests and my interests and those of your constituents in the cases where insurance companies are getting into financial difficulty and the Director is trying to straighten it out. That's all this Bill is about. You should be voting 'yes' for the Bill to protect your constituents."

"Representative Katz."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, in explaining my feeling about the Bill I think the Director, individually, has done a fine job of running his department. I noted the observations of my distinguished colleague, Representative Giorgi, with regard to the Director's actions in the Workmen's Compensation Insurance field. However, I take a somewhat different view than my colleague. I note that the Director has very vigorously espoused the position that there ought to be open competition in the insurance field with regard to Workmen's Compensation coverage and I think the Director has taken a forthright position that we ought to look at. However, I noted in Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1073 that in Section 131.8A, the Director may retain at the applicants expense any attorneys, actuaries, accountants and other experts and otherwise a part of the Director..not otherwise a part of 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 the Director's staff. It really gives the Director an open opportunity, not only this Director, but any other Director, to load up at applicants expense tremendous numbers of patronage appointments retaining this or that attorney, actuary, accountant. There's no provision in here that I can find that makes him accountable for it, not even retaining the records of such appointments. Unless there is some provision or such an Amendment that would at least provide that a public record must be kept of all of these attorneys, actuaries, accountants and other experts that are retained at the expense of the applicant, I can't vote for this Bill and accordingly I'm going to vote 'present' until that's cleared up."

"Representative Leverenz."

"Well, as to explain my 'no' vote, the key words raised by a Gentlemen on the other side of the aisle a few seconds ago was that it just provides discretion and therein lies the problem. I think we recently read and perhaps even again today from yesterday a discretionary item to the tune of 23.8% and I suggest that discretion should not be allowed. I ask you to vote red or 'present'."

"Further discussion? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? We need a Clerk over here to take the record. Take the record. There are 92 'aye', 42 'no', 24 voting 'present'. Representative O'Brien."

"I request verification of the Affirmative Vote."

"The Gentleman requests a verification. The House will stand at ease for a few moments and then we'll verify the vote. Representative Tuerk."

"May I be verified, please?"

"Representative O'Brien, Representative Tuerk requests leave to be verified. Does he have leave? Leave is granted. Representative John Dunn." 96  STATE OF ILLINOIS 32ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While we're waiting, perhaps you can elaborate on the mechanics of the procedure being used. Will there be one master Roll Call that will be signed by the people copying from the Board or what is going to wind up ultimately as the Roll Call here and how mechanically are we going to get to that point?"

"The Clerk will transfer everything on to one master Roll Call. As a back up system we have the photographer taking a color picture of each and every Roll Call vote so that we have a record of that as well. In this particular case we, of course, will have a verified Roll Call."

"Then I have an ad...Yes, I understand about the verification. I understand that there are people down here on each side of the well copying..."

"That's correct.."

"And where do they go with their copies? What will.."

"They will be given to the Clerk and he will compile a single Roll Call and match that against the colored photograph to make sure that they are accurate for purposes of the Journal. In this particular case, of course, they will be even matched further by the verification."

"Okay. The two sheets given to the Clerk then will later be transcribed on to what will be the official Roll Call."

"That is correct, Sir."

"All right. Can we have the signatures of those who are doing the copying so we'll know at some later date who is doing this transcribing off the Board and provide for some safekeeping of the ..of the sheets that are being prepared at this time?"

"Clerk says he will."

"Thank you very much." 97  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, may we please have your attention? Due to difficulties that we are experiencing, the way that we're going to work this, due to the request for a verification, pursuant to the rules of the House, there's an Oral Verified Roll Call. We will dump this Roll Call. Will the Members please be in their seats? We are going to proceed with a Verified Roll Call. If you'll listen carefully, we'll tell you what we're going to do at this moment. The electrician of the House wants to take a Roll Call as a test. So we're just going to open the Board for purposes of a test. So enjoy yourselves. Vote your switch any way you want. This is a test. This is not a Roll Call record Roll Call vote. This is a test. This is a drill to teach each and every Member how to operate their switch. Now please don't fool with it too much because you can mess up the system further. Please just vote your switch. Representative Catania? Representative Zwick. Representative Henry. You know, we're asking for your cooperation. Okay. Take the record. Go ahead. Take it. The Members please be in their seats. We're proceeding with an Oral Verified Roll Call vote on Senate Bill 1073. Proceed, Mr. Clerk. Representative Pullen. For what purpose do you arise?"

"I wanted to note, Mr. Speaker, that I believe Representative Tuerk had received leave to be verified and I wondered whether you were planning to have him recorded on this Roll Call?"

"We'll see what happens when we get to his vote."

"Thank you."

"Representative John Dunn."

"There was some talk, Mr. Speaker, about eliminating explanation of votes during this time of difficulty..." 98  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"We will follow pursuant to the rules of the House. Each Member may explain their vote if he or she so desires."

"Maybe we should put that request to the Body. I think the Body would probably go along with such a request during this time.."

"At the present time, we're going to proceed pursuant to the rules of the House on an Oral Verified Roll Call vote."

"All right. You may recognize me whenever you wish for a Motion of that kind to eliminate explanation of vote.."

"Proceed with an Oral Verified Roll Call."

"Abramson..."

"All right. Don't vote your switch until you are called. And take the paper clips out of the switches."

"Abramson, Abramson passes. Ackerman, Ackerman votes 'aye'. Alexander, Alexander votes 'no'. Alstat, Alstat votes 'aye'. Balanoff, Balanoff votes 'no'. Barkhausen, Barkhausen votes 'aye'. Barnes, Barnes votes 'aye'. Barr, Barr votes 'aye'. Bartulis, Bartulis votes 'aye'. Beatty, Beatty passes. Bell, Bell votes 'aye'. Bianco, Bianco passes. Birkinbine, Birkinbine votes 'aye'. Bluthardt, Bluthardt votes 'aye'. Boucek, Boucek passes. Bower, Bower votes 'aye'. Bowman, Bowman votes 'no'. Bradley, Bradley votes 'aye'. Braun, Braun passes. Breslin, Breslin passes. Brummer, Brummer votes 'present'. Bullock, Bullock votes 'present'. Capparelli, Capparelli passes. Carey, Carey votes 'no'. Catania, Catania votes 'aye'. Chapman, Chapman passes. Christensen, Christensen passes. Collins, Collins votes 'aye'. Conti, Conti votes 'aye'. Cullerton, Cullerton votes 'no'. Currie, Currie votes 'no'. Daniels..."

"'Aye'." 99  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Daniels votes 'aye'. Darrow, Darrow passes. Davis, Davis votes 'aye'. Deuchler, Deuchler votes 'aye'. Deuster, Deuster votes 'aye'. DiPrima, DiPrima votes 'present'. Domico, Domico passes. Donovan, Donovan votes 'aye'. Doyle, Doyle votes 'present'. Jack Dunn, Jack Dunn votes 'aye'. John Dunn. Push your button, Sir. John Dunn votes 'present'. Ralph Dunn, Ralph Dunn passes. Ebbesen, Ebbesen votes 'aye'. Epton, Epton votes 'aye'. Ewell, Ewell passes. Ewing, Ewing votes 'aye'. Farley, Farley passes. Fawell, Fawell votes 'aye'. Findley, Findley votes 'aye'. Flinn, Flinn passes. Virginia Frederick, Virginia Frederick votes 'aye'. Dwight Friedrich, Dwight Friedrich votes 'aye'. Garmisa is absent. Getty, Representative Getty, Getty votes 'present'. Giglio, Giglio..."

"Representative Bianco?"

"Mr. Speaker, do I have leave to vote and be verified? I have to go to the dentist. I have a dental appointment."

"Mr. Clerk, read Representative Bianco's name."

"Bianco..."

"How do you vote, Sir?"

"'Aye'."

"Proceed, Sir."

"Bianco votes 'aye'. Giorgi, Giorgi votes 'aye'. Giorgi votes 'no'. Greiman, Greiman votes 'no'. Griffin, Griffin votes 'present'. Grossi, Grossi votes 'aye'. Hallock, Hallock votes 'aye'. Hallstrom, Hallstrom passes. Hanahan, Hanahan passes. Hannig, Hannig ....Hallstrom votes 'aye'. Hannig, Hannig votes 'aye'. Hastert, Hastert votes 'aye'. Henry, Henry votes 'aye'. Hoffman, Hoffman passes. Hoxsey, Hoxsey, Hoxsey votes 'aye'. Hudson, Hudson votes 'aye'. Huff, Huff votes 'no'. Huskey, Huskey votes 'aye'. Jackson, Jackson votes 100  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 'present'. Jaffe, Jaffe votes 'no'. Johnson, Johnson votes 'aye'. Jones, Jones votes 'aye'. Kane, Kane passes. Karpiel, Karpiel votes 'aye'. Katz, Katz votes 'present'. Keane, Keane ..Keane votes 'present'. Jim Kelley, Jim Kelley votes 'aye', Dick Kelly, Dick Kelly votes 'no'. Klemm, Klemm votes 'aye'. Kociolko, Kociolko votes 'aye'. Koehler, Koehler votes 'aye'. Kornowicz, Kornowicz votes 'no'. Kosinski, Kosinski votes 'present'. Krska, Krska votes 'no'. Did you press your button, Representative? Kucharski, Kucharski passes. Kulas, Kulas votes 'no'. Kustra, Kustra votes 'aye'. Laurino, Laurino passes. Lechowicz, Lechowicz passes. Leinenweber, Leinenweber, Leinenweber votes 'aye'. Leon, Leon votes 'no'. Leverenz, Leverenz passes. Levin, Levin votes 'aye'. Macdonald, Macdonald votes 'aye'. Madigan, Madigan passes. Margalus is recorded as absent. Martire, Martire passes. Matijevich, Matijevich votes 'no'. Mautino, Mautino votes 'aye'. Mays, Mays votes 'aye'. McAuliffe, McAuliffe passes. McBroom, McBroom passes. McClain, McClain passes. McCormick, McCormick votes 'aye'. McGrew..."

"Representative McGrew."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I offer the ultimate solution to our problem. In spite of the fact of 'Pat Quinn', we still outnumber the Senate by three to one and I suggest that 177 of us go get their voting machine cause they don't use it anyhow. Vote me 'aye'."

"Proceed. How do you vote, Representative McGrew?"

"McGrew votes 'aye'."

"'Aye'."

"McMaster, McMaster votes 'aye'. McPike, McPike votes 'no'. Roland Meyer, Roland Meyer votes 'aye'. Ted 101  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Meyer, Ted Meyer votes 'aye'. Miller, Miller passes. Mulcahey, Mulcahey votes 'no'. Murphy, Murphy passes. Neff, Neff votes 'aye'. Nelson, Nelson votes 'aye'. Oblinger, Oblinger votes 'aye'. O'Brien, O'Brien votes 'no'. O'Connell, O'Connell votes 'present'. Ozella, Ozella votes 'no'. Pechous, Pechous votes 'present'. Peters, Peters passes. Piel, Piel votes 'aye'. Pierce, Pierce votes 'present'. Polk, Polk votes 'aye'. Pouncey, Pouncey votes 'no'. Preston, Preston votes 'present'. Pullen, Pullen votes 'aye'. Rea, Rea votes 'aye'. Redmond is recorded as absent. Reed, Reed votes 'aye'. Reilly, Reilly votes 'aye'. Rhem, Rhem votes 'present'. Richmond, Richmond passes. Rigney, Rigney votes 'aye'. Robbins, Robbins votes 'aye'. Ronan, Ronan passes. Ropp, Ropp votes 'aye'. Saltsman, Saltsman votes 'no'. Sandquist, Sandquist votes 'aye'. Satterthwaite, Satterthwaite votes 'no'. Schneider, Schneider passes. Schraeder, Representative, would you push your button? Schraeder votes 'no'. Schuneman, Schuneman votes 'aye'. Slape, Slape votes 'no'. Irv Smith, Irv Smith passes. Margaret Smith, Margaret Smith votes 'no'. Stanley, Stanley votes 'aye'. Stearney, Stearney passes. Steczo, Steczo votes 'no'. E.G.Steele, E.G.Steele votes 'aye'. Stewart, Stewart passes. C.M.Stiehl, C.M.Stiehl votes 'aye'. Stuffle, Stuffle votes 'no'. Swanstrom, Swanstrom votes 'aye'. Tate, Tate votes 'aye'. Telcser, Telcser passes. Telcser votes 'aye'. Terzich, Terzich passes. Topinka, Topinka votes 'aye'. Tuerk, Tuerk votes 'aye'. Turner, Turner votes 'present'. Van Duyne, Van Duyne votes 'present'. Vinson, Vinson votes 'aye'. Vitek, Vitek votes 'aye'. Watson, Watson votes 'aye'. White, White votes 'present'. Wikoff, Wikoff votes 'aye'. Winchester, Winchester votes 'aye'. J.J.Wolf, J.J.Wolf passes. Sam 102  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Wolf, Sam Wolf passes. Woodyard, Woodyard votes 'aye'. Younge, Younge passes. Yourell, Yourell passes. Zito, Zito votes 'present'. Zwick, Zwick votes 'aye'. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker is not recorded."

"Representative Boucek?"

"Vote me 'aye'."

"Boucek, 'aye'. Representative Leinenweber?"

"All of you may not have witnessed what just occurred, but that's what's called 'burden of Leadership'."

"Representative Peters?"

"Representative Boucek, would you press your button please? Thank you."

"Representative Peters, 'aye'."

"Peters, 'aye'."

"Representative Schneider? Press your button, Sir. Okay, thank you."

"Schneider, 'no'."

"Representative Hoffman? Hoffman, 'aye'."

"Hoffman, 'aye'."

"Representative J.J.Wolf?"

"'Aye'."

"J.J.Wolf, 'aye'."

"Representative Miller?"

"'Aye'."

"Miller, 'aye'."

"Representative Darrow?"

"Darrow, 'present'."

"Further additions? Representative Griffin? Griffin? Representative Griffin?"

"Griffin changes from 'present' to 'aye'. Christensen votes 'present'."

"Representative McBroom? Representative McBroom votes 'aye'." 103  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"McBroom, 'aye'."

"All right. Anyone else? Representative Beatty? Beatty votes 'present'. Anyone else? Representative Rea? Representative Rea."

"Rea votes 'present'."

"Rea votes 'present'. Do you want to change your switch from 'aye' to 'present'?"

"...Rea changes from 'aye' to 'present'."

"Okay. Further changes? Representative Leverenz?"

"Record me 'no'."

"Push your switch, Sir. All right. Further changes? Representative McClain?"

"Mr. Speaker, would you vote me 'no' please?"

"Vote yourself, Sir. Vote 'no'. Push your switch. There you go. Okay. McClain 'no'. Further changes or additions? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. Representative Kucharski? All right, Representative Kucharski?"

"Can I be recorded as 'aye' please?"

"All right. Kuchar...Kucharski votes 'aye'. That's the 91st vote. All right. On this issue there are 91 'aye', 31 'no', 23 'present'. Senate Bill 1073, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1173, Representative Braun. Oh, excuse me. Representative Oblinger for an introduction."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the General Assembly, we have with us a visitor from another General Assembly, the General Assembly in Florida. They have a much better system than we do. They're only in Session 60 days. He told me from April 5th to June 5th. The reason I'm doing the introducing, I used to tell my students in my law class, please get involved. I want you to meet 104  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Representative Frank Messersmith, who was one of my students."

"How do you do? I'm from Springfield. Was born and raised here and it's nice to be back in the home town and kind of nice to visit with you. I sure appreciate this. It's a very distinct honor and nice to join you today. This is my daughter, Kim, with me and my lady friend, Diana Adamonis, from Florida. Thank you again."

"All right. Who wants to move to Florida? Representative Bowman."

"Mr. Speaker, I would just like to suggest that the reason that industry is leaving Illinois and going to the sun belt has nothing to do with Worker's Comp. or Unemployment Insurance. It has to do with the... some of the young ladies perhaps that live in those states."

"Senate Bill 1173, Representative Braun. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1173, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Insurance Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Braun."

"Thank you. I'd initially like to thank Representative Bowman for his recent remark. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Bill gives th Director of Insurance the authority to adjust FAIR Plan policies to encourage neighborhood revitilization and discourage arson for profit. It came out of....it is part of a package and it's the result of hearings about the serious problem in Chicago about arson for profit. It has been amended by Representative Levin and Rigney to provide for reports of significant foreign ownership of insurance companies in this state. With regard to that aspect of the legislation I would defer to either Representative Rigney or Levin 105  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 because frankly I'm not overly familiar with that part of it. But the first part of the Bill has to do with arson for profit. Was one of the recommendations of the Insurance Laws Study Commission and I would encourage your favorable response."

"Any discussion? Representative Huff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative Braun, can you tell me what is the total number of insurance policies that are in the FAIR Plan presently?"

"I'm sorry, Representative. I don't know. This insurance is not my area of expertise..."

"Well, okay. One of your other colleagues can answer that question."

"Pardon?"

"Can one of your other colleagues that you indentified that would answer questions, can they answer?"

"You mean Representative Levin or Rigney? No. I referred to them with respect to the second part dealing with ownership of insurance companies by foreign nationals."

"All right. Well, then..Okay. All right. Then answer this if you can. Of the total number of policies registered with the FAIR Plan, what percentage of those policies have fire claim loss due to arson?"

"Representative, if Representative Epton wouldn't mind I really would like to defer to him again. If he wouldn't mind, on these questions. Again, insurance is not in my area of expertise. I am trying to learn about it. I have what I thought was a very good Bill that was a recommendation of the Insurance Laws Study Commission that Representative Marovitz passed out of the Senate with little dissent and I was hoping to get it passed here 106  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 today. I really can't answer specific questions regarding the FAIR Plan because it's just not my area of expertise."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, to the Bill."

"Proceed, Sir."

"I'll attempt to edify the Body in my own little humble way. There is an excess of three million policies to date in the FAIR Plan. The total fire claim loss is less than three percent, but yet we are to be lead to believe that ...that this is an excessive amount that the fire claim loss in the FAIR Plan is out of control and that these harsh measures are going to have to be necessary. But yet we're leaving alone the ..the insurance industry outside of the FAIR Plan whose fire claim loss is twice that of the FAIR Plan. I think that this is a bad Bill. It should be defeated."

"Representative Levin." Levin:: "To respond as far as what Amendment #2 does, Amendment #2 was offered by myself and Representative Rigney. The Department of Insurance is planning next year in its policy forms..."

Speaker Daniels: "Excuse me, Representative Levin. Representative Huff, for what purpose do you arise, Sir?"

"On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. We're not talking about the Amendments. This is the time for Third Reading. We're not talking about the merits of any Amendment now. We're talking about the Bill for which the Amendment is an integral part of. I wish the speaker would restrict his comments to the Bill and the Bill only."

"Representative Levin."

"Representative, I believe there was a question as far as what Amendment #2 which was adopted and is now a part of the Bill does and I just wanted to respond to that. I support the basic Bill. We have serious problems in our 107  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 district in terms of arson for profit. In fact, the channel 7, the original channel 7 investigation centered in the up-town area that we represent. And the legislation that was passed last year was a response to that scandal. I support the basic Bill. I think it's needed. I think that it provides standards. I think one of the problems that many people had with the last Bill that we just voted on is that it gave the Director what appeared to be unbridled discretion. This Bill in its basic form with the 1st Amendment sets out express standards and procedures for how the Director would exercise the authority in terms of modifying FAIR Plan policies. The 2nd Amendment which is the Amendment I sponsored, deals with reporting of nonresident alien ownership of insurance companies. The Department of Insurance with its existing authority is planning next year to modify its annual report forms to require disclosure of all ownership of insurance companies. What Amendment #2 simply does is to authorize the Director to report to the General Assembly in terms of any findings that he thinks the General Assembly should be made aware of in terms of such nonresident alien ownership that will show up in those revised annual reports."

"Representative Bullock."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman's moved the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?'. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The main question is put. Representative Braun to close."

"Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, this Bill passed out of the Senate with very little dissent. It's a good solid Bill. It sets out standards and I would encourage an 'aye' vote." 108  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"The Lady has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1173. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, once again, we will conduct an Oral Verified Roll Call vote. All right. The fastest....When your name is called, please stand up, record your vote and the faster you record your votes, the faster we're able to move on. Cooperate with Members of the House. The next Bill to be called will be Senate Bill 1160, Representative Meyer. All right. On Senate Bill 1173, the question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1173 pass?'. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', opposed by voting 'no'. We have an Oral Verified Roll. Do not vote yet. Clear the Board. Clear it. Till your name is called. All right. Proceed with an Oral Verification."

"Abramson. Abramson passes. Ackerman. Ackerman votes 'aye'. Alexander. Alexander votes 'aye'. Alstat. Alstat votes 'aye'. Balanoff. Balanoff votes 'aye'. Barkhausen. Barkhausen votes 'aye'. Barnes. Barnes passes. Barnes votes 'aye'. Barr. Barr votes 'aye'. Bartulis. Bartulis votes 'aye'. Beatty. Beatty votes 'no'. Bell. Bell passes. Bianco. Bianco passes. Birkinbine. Birkinbine votes 'aye'. Bluthardt. Bluthardt votes 'aye'. Boucek. Boucek votes 'aye'. Bower. Bower votes 'aye'. Bowman. Bowman votes 'aye'. Bradley. Bradley votes 'no'. Braun. Braun votes 'aye'. Breslin. Breslin passes. Brummer. Brummer votes 'no'. Bullock. Bullock votes 'aye'. Capparelli. Capparelli passes. Carey. Carey passes. Catania. Catania votes 'aye'. Chapman. Chapman passes. Christensen. Christensen passes. Collins. Collins votes 'aye'. Conti. Conti passes. Cullerton. Cullerton votes 'aye'. Currie. Currie votes 'aye'. Daniels."

"Daniels, 'aye'."

"Daniels votes 'aye'. Darrow. Darrow votes 'aye'. 109  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Davis. Davis votes 'aye'. Deuchler. Deuchler votes 'aye'. Deuster. Deuster votes 'aye'. DiPrima. DiPrima votes 'aye'. Domico. Domico passes. Donovan. Donovan votes 'aye'. Please press your switch. Doyle. Doyle votes 'aye'. Jack Dunn. Jack Dunn votes 'aye'. John Dunn. John Dunn votes 'aye'. Ralph Dunn. Ralph Dunn passes. Ebbesen. Ebbesen votes 'aye'. Epton. Epton votes 'aye'. Ewell. Ewell votes 'aye'. Ewing. Ewing passes. Farley. Ewing votes 'aye'. Farley. Farley passes. Fawell. Fawell votes 'aye'. Findley. Findley votes 'aye'. Flinn. Flinn passes. Virginia Frederick. Virginia Frederick passes...votes...Virginia Frederick votes 'aye'. Dwight Friedrich. Dwight Friedrich votes 'aye'. Garmisa. Garmisa passes. Getty. Getty votes 'aye'. Giglio. Giglio passes. Giorgi. Giorgi passes. Greiman. Greiman votes 'aye'. Griffin. Griffin votes 'aye'. Grossi. Grossi votes 'aye'. Hallock. Hallock votes 'aye'. Hallstrom. Hallstrom votes 'aye'. Hanahan. Hanahan passes. Hannig. Hannig votes 'aye'. Hastert. Hastert votes 'aye'. Henry. Henry votes 'no'. Hoffman. Hoffman passes. Hoxsey. Hoxsey votes 'aye'. Hudson. Hudson votes 'aye'. Huff. Huff votes 'no'. Huskey. Huskey votes 'aye'. Jackson. Jackson votes 'aye'. Jaffe. Jaffe votes 'aye'. Johnson. Johnson passes. Jones. Jones passes. Kane. Kane passes. Karpiel. Karpiel votes 'aye'. Katz. Katz votes 'aye'. Keane. Keane votes 'aye'. Jim Kelley. Jim Kelley votes 'aye'. Dick Kelly. Dick Kelly passes. Klemm. Representative Klemm passes. Kociolko. Kociolko votes 'aye'. Koehler. Koehler votes 'aye'. Kornowicz. Kornowicz passes. Kosinski. Kosinski votes 'aye'. Krska. Krska passes. Kucharski. Kucharski votes 'aye'. Kulas. Kulas votes 'aye'. Kustra. Kustra votes 'aye'. Laurino. Laurino passes. Lechowicz. 110  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Lechowicz passes. Leinenweber. Leinenweber votes 'aye'. Leon. Leon votes 'aye'. Leverenz. Leverenz passes. Levin. Levin votes 'aye'. Macdonald. Macdonald votes 'aye'. Madigan. Madigan votes 'aye'. Margalus is recorded as absent. Martire. Martire passes. Matijevich. Matijevich votes 'aye'. Mautino. Mautino votes 'aye'. Mays. Mays votes 'aye'. McAuliffe. McAuliffe passes. McBroom. McBroom votes 'aye'. McClain. McClain passes. McCormick. McCormick votes 'aye'. McGrew. McGrew votes 'aye'. McMaster. McMaster votes 'aye'. McPike. McPike passes. McPike votes 'aye'. Roland Meyer. Roland Meyer votes 'aye'. Ted Meyer. Ted Meyer passes. Miller. Miller votes 'aye'. Mulcahey. Mulcahey votes 'aye'. Murphy. Murphy votes 'aye'. Neff. Neff passes. Nelson. Nelson votes 'aye'. Oblinger. Oblinger passes. O'Brien. O'Brien votes 'no'. O'Connell. O'Connell votes 'aye'. Ozella. Ozella votes 'aye'. Pechous. Pechous votes 'aye'. Peters. Peters votes 'aye'. Piel. Piel votes 'aye'. Pierce. Pierce votes 'aye'. Polk. Polk votes 'aye'. Pouncey. Pouncey votes 'present'. Preston. Preston votes 'aye'. Pullen. Pullen votes 'aye'. Rea. Rea votes 'aye'. Redmond is recorded as absent. Reed. Reed votes 'aye'. Reilly. Reilly votes 'aye'. Rhem. Rhem votes 'aye'. Richmond. Richmond passes. Rigney. Rigney votes 'aye'. Robbins. Robbins passes. Ronan. Ronan votes 'aye'. Ropp. Ropp votes 'aye'. Saltsman. Saltsman passes. Saltsman votes 'aye'. Sandquist. Sandquist votes 'aye'. Satterthwaite. Satterthwaite votes 'aye'. Schneider. Schneider votes 'aye'. Schraeder. Schraeder votes 'aye'. Schuneman. Schuneman votes 'aye'. Slape. Slape votes 'aye'. Irv Smith. Irv Smith votes 'aye'. Margaret Smith. Margaret Smith votes 'aye'. Stanley. Stanley votes 'aye'. Stearney. Stearney passes. 111  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Steczo. Steczo votes 'aye'. E.G.Steele. E.G.Steele votes 'aye'. Stewart. Stewart passes. C.M.Stiehl. C.M.Stiehl votes 'aye'. Stuffle. Stuffle votes 'aye'. Swanstrom. Swanstrom votes 'aye'. Tate. Tate votes 'aye'. Telcser. Telcser votes 'aye'. Terzich. Terzich passes. Topinka. Topinka passes. Topinka votes 'aye'. Tuerk. Tuerk votes 'aye'. Turner. Turner votes 'aye'. Van Duyne. Van Duyne passes. Vinson. Vinson votes 'aye'. Vitek. Vitek votes 'aye'. Watson. Watson votes 'aye'. White. White passes. White votes 'aye'. Wikoff. Wikoff votes 'aye'. Winchester. Winchester votes 'aye'. J.J.Wolf. J.J.Wolf votes 'aye'. Sam Wolf. Sam Wolf votes 'aye'. Woodyard. Woodyard votes 'aye'. Younge. Younge votes 'aye'. Yourell. Yourell passes. Zito. Zito votes 'aye'. Zwick. Zwick votes 'aye'. Mr. Speaker is not recorded."

"Representative Domico, 'aye'. Representative Domico 'aye'. Representative Laurino, 'aye'. Representative Johnson, 'aye'. Representative Kelly. Don't forget to push your switch when you vote. Representative Dick Kelly, 'aye'. Representative Breslin, 'aye'. Representative Krska, 'aye'. Representative Giorgi, 'aye'. Representative Leverenz, 'aye'. Representative Richmond, 'aye'. Representative Farley, 'aye'. Representative Oblinger, 'aye'. Representative Klemm, 'aye'. Representative Robbins, 'aye'. Representative Bell, 'aye'. Representative Ted Meyer, 'aye'. Representative Elmer Conti, 'aye'. Kornowicz, 'aye'. Okay. Representative Carey, 'aye'. And Speaker Ryan, 'aye'. Representative Hoffman, 'aye'. Further additions? Okay. Take the record. On Senate Bill 1173 there are 145 'ayes', 6 'no', 1 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Special Order of Business: Environmental 112  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Protection Act, EPA, Senate Bill 1160. Representative Ted Meyer. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1160, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"That doesn't sound like the Environmental Protection Act, does it? Oh, I'm sorry. It's 1060. Senate Bill 1060."

"Senate Bill 1060, a Bill for an Act to amend the Environmental Protection Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Meyer, Ted Meyer."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Senate Bill 1060 requires the EPA, prior to issuing, issuing a formal complaint, to serve a written notice on the alleged violator informing such person of the agency's intent to file a formal complaint. (It) provides an opportunity for the violator to meet with the agency within 30 days after the receipt of the notice and hopefully to resolve conflicts which would lead ...could lead to a formal complaint. I move its adoption."

"The Gentleman's moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1060. On that question is there any discussion? Being none....Representative Collins."

"Will the Gentleman yield?"

"The Gentleman indicates he will."

"Well, what is the procedure now, Ted?"

"This is the procedure now. It...The EPA presently does it. This would put the ..the informal procedure in the Statute."

"Well, I haven't seen them do anything right yet. So maybe this isn't such a good idea either."

"Representative Meyer? Representative Greiman is screaming again. Yes, Sir."

"It's the only way I can get your attention, Mr. Speaker." 113  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"You're right."

"That's why I scream. What are the penalties if the ...if you have, for example, a flagrant violator, does he get...he really in effect gets another free 30 days before they can move in. Isn't that right?"

"No, Sir. The Act presently provides that without notice the agency may take action against ...against violators whose action forms a threat and harm to the environment, serious threat and harm to the environment."

"And now, with this 30 day notice, period, what does that do?"

"That's a 30 day notice to an alleged violator."

"Is there any provision for an emergency situation?"

"Yes, Sir.."

"You can get around the 30 day period..."

"Yes, Sir. That's in the Statute existing."

"Well, I know. But we're changing the Statute. We're requiring notice now, right?"

"Not for...Not on the Section of emergency."

"What's the standard for emergencies? How do they know which one is an emergency and which one isn't an emergency?"

"Just a moment."

"And also, perhaps you could tell me where that provisions on emergencies is? Maybe in the Bill?"

"That's what I'm looking for, Sir, right now."

"Yes. I don't see it. Now maybe it's in....Maybe I'm not catching it. Again, I don't see any emergency provision that would allow them..."

"Page two, line six to ...to fourteen. Pardon me. No."

"No. No. See D, Section...Subsection D would contravene any of those, applies to any of them. So we have a situation where I think, if I may suggest, that 114  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 there is no emergency provision..."

"At the Committee Hearing the agency testified that injunctive relief is still available to them."

"Well, okay, on the Bill, Mr. Speaker, if I may?"

"Mr. Greiman?"

"Yes, Sir, Ted."

"I am told that on page three, lines five to eight, nothing in this subsection is intended to preclude the agency from following the provisions of subsection (A) of this section after the provisions of this section...subsection are fulfilled."

"Well, yea, that's right. After the provisions of this subsection is the notice. So, what they're saying is, we don't cut down on any rights as long as you fulfill the provisions of this subsection, which in fact, is the notice requirement. Sort of a Catch 22. It says they can go in and go like hell under subsection (A) as long as they proceed with subsection (D) which is, from what I read...this quickly, an absolute right to a 30 day notice. So, if I may, Mr. Speaker, on the Bill. Ted, I don't mean to cut you off if you can show it to me, I'd be glad to see it, but short of that. On the Bill, I don't find any provision for emergency action. I'm concerned about providing violators with this kind of absolute right. I suspect that an agency, if they have half a brain and not all of our agencies do, but if they do have half a brain, if it's a minor violation...are going to give somebody some notice and let them comply and hopefully work out some kind of compliance agreement. But it's the flagrant violator who doesn't give a darn, who is in a very serious emergency situation, that this Bill gives an extra 30 days to. And I am concerned about giving violators any kind of an additional tme when there's an emergency situation. 115  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Also...there you have all kinds of problems which are always created by notice, you know, is it written notice from when they get it or written notice when it's dated and what kind of mail does it come and was it the right address and a whole myriad of now problems come up whenever you put in a notice provision. Accordingly, I have some fear about this Bill and I think I'm going to vote 'no' on this Bill."

"Further discussion? Being none, the Gentleman, Representative Meyer, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The agency testified at the hearing that this would not preclude them from obtaining injunctive relief. I must admit that the Bill does not contain that language. I am told that it is in the Statute and, hopefully, on explanation of vote I will be able to cite the section. I urge the approval of this Bill."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption....passage of Senate Bill 1060. Question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1060 pass?' All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', opposed by voting 'no'. This is an oral verified Roll Call. Alright, Clerk, please proceed with the Roll Call."

"Abramson. Abramson passes. Ackerman, Ackerman votes 'aye'. Alexander, Alexander passes. Alstat, Alstat votes 'aye'. Would you press the switch, Representative? Balanoff, Balanoff passes. Barkhausen, Barkhausen votes 'aye'. Barnes, Barnes votes 'aye'. Barr, Barr votes 'aye'. Bartulis, Bartulis votes 'aye'. Beatty, Beatty passes. Bell, Bell votes 'aye'. Bianco...passes. Birkinbine, Birkinbine votes 'aye'. Bluthardt, Bluthardt votes 'aye'. Boucek, Boucek votes 'aye'. Bower, Bower votes 'aye'. Bowman, Bowman votes 'no'. Bradley, Bradley votes 'aye'. Braun, Braun passes. Breslin, Breslin passes. Brummer, Brummer votes 'aye'. Bullock, Bullock 116  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 votes 'aye'. Capparelli, passes. Carey, passes. Catania, Catania votes 'present'. Chapman, Chapman passes. Christensen, Christensen votes 'aye'. Collins, Collins votes 'no'. Conti, Conti passes. Cullerton, Cullerton passes. Currie, Currie votes 'no'. Daniels..."

""Aye"."

"Daniels votes 'aye'. Darrow, Darrow passes. Davis, Davis votes 'aye'. Deuchler, Deuchler votes 'aye'. Deuster, Deuster votes 'aye'. DiPrima, DiPrima votes 'no'. Domico, Domico passes. Donovan, Donovan passes. Doyle, Doyle votes 'no'. Jack Dunn, Jack Dunn votes 'aye'. John Dunn, John Dunn passes. Ralph Dunn, Ralph Dunn passes. Ebbesen, Ebbesen...."

"John Dunn was 'no'."

"John Dunn votes 'no'. Ebbesen votes 'aye'. Epton, Epton votes 'aye'. Ewell, Ewell votes 'aye'. Ewing, Ewing votes 'aye'. Farley, Farley passes. Fawell, Fawell passes. Findley....Fawell votes 'aye'. Findley votes 'aye'. Flinn, Flinn passes. Virginia Frederick, Virginia Frederick votes 'no'. Dwight Friedrich, Dwight Friedrich votes 'aye'. Garmisa passes. Getty, Getty votes 'no'. Giglio, Giglio passes. Giorgi, Giorgi votes 'aye'. Greiman, Greiman votes 'no'. Griffin, Griffin votes 'aye'. Grossi, Grossi votes 'aye'. Hallock, Hallock votes 'aye'. Hallstrom, Representative Hallstrom votes 'aye'."

"Representative Conti, for what purpose do you arise, Sir? Conti 'aye'. Would you push your switch, Sir? Push your switch. Thank you. Proceed, Sir."

"Hanahan passes. Hannig, Hannig votes 'aye'. Hastert, Hastert votes 'aye'. Henry, Henry passes. Hoffman, Hoffman passes. Hoxsey, Hoxsey passes. Hudson, Hudson votes 'aye'. Huff passes. Huskey, Huskey votes 'aye'. Jackson, Jackson votes 'aye'. Jaffe, Jaffe passes. 117  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Johnson, Johnson passes. Jones, Jones passes. Kane, Kane passes. Karpiel, Karpiel votes 'aye'. Katz, Katz votes 'no'. Keane, Keane passes. Jim Kelley, Jim Kelley votes 'aye'. Dick Kelly, Dick Kelly votes 'no'. Klemm, Klemm votes 'aye'. Kociolko, Kociolko votes 'aye'. Koehler, Koehler votes 'aye'. Kornowicz, Kornowicz passes. Kosinski, Kosinski passes. Krska, Krska passes. Kucharski, Kucharski passes. Kulas...Kucharski votes 'aye'. Kulas votes 'aye'. Kustra, Kustra votes 'aye'. Laurino, Laurino votes 'no'. Lechowicz, Lechowicz passes. Leinenweber, Leinenweber votes 'present'. Leon, Leon votes 'no'. Leverenz, Leverenz votes 'aye'. Levin, Levin votes 'no'. Macdonald, Macdonald passes. Madigan, Madigan votes 'no'. Margalus is recorded as absent. Martire, passes. Matijevich, Matijevich votes 'aye'. Mautino, Mautino votes 'aye'. Press your button, Representative. Mays, Mays votes 'aye'. McAuliffe, McAuliffe passes. McBroom, McBroom votes 'aye'. McClain, McClain votes 'aye'. McCormick, McCormick votes 'aye'. McGrew, McGrew passes. McMaster, McMaster votes 'aye'. McPike, McPike passes."

"Representative Breslin, for what purpose do you arise?"

"Please record me as voting 'aye', please. Please record me as voting 'aye'."

"Breslin, 'aye'. Cullerton, 'aye'. Jaffe 'no'. Braun, 'no'. Okay, proceed. Alright, Mr. Carey, Mr. Carey 'aye'. Alright, will you all push your buttons. Make sure they're on, Representative Carey. Okay, proceed."

"Roland Meyer, Roland Meyer votes 'aye'. Ted Meyer, Ted Meyer wants to speak. Ted Meyer wants to speak, I think."

"Representative Meyer?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In explaining my vote, 118  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Section 1034, entitled, 'Episode of Emergency Conditions, Sealing of Equipment Vessels, Vehicles, Aircraft, etcetera'. Section 34 (A). Upon a finding that an episode or emergency condition as specified in board regulations exist, the agency may declare such alerts or emergencies as provided for by those regulations. When such an alert or an emergency is in effect, the agency may seal the equipment, vehicle, vessel, aircraft or other facility operated in violation of such regulations. Section (B). In all, in other cases in which the agency finds that there's an emergency condition exists creating an immediate danger to health, the agency may seal any equipment, vehicle, vessel, aircraft or other facility contributing to the emergency condition. (C), it is a Class (A) misdemeanor to break any seal affixed under this Section or to operate, etcetera, etcetera. I'm sure that this covers Representative Greiman's objection. In the case of an emergency the agency may act immediately. No notice need be given. They may go in and seal the Pollution Control Facility. Okay, in addition, Section 1034...1043 gives injunctive relief in Section 43 (A). In circumstances of substantial danger to the environment or to the public health or of persons or to the welfare of persons which the danger is to the livelihood of such persons, the State's Attorney or Attorney General may upon the request of the agency or on its own Motion move for...to institute a civil action for an immediate injunction to halt any discharge. Sir, Representative Greiman's objection is without merit. I urge all to vote 'aye'."

"Ted Meyer, 'aye'. Representative Hoxsey. Mr. Clerk, Ted Meyer is 'aye'."

"Ted Meyer 'aye'. Miller..." 119  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Representative Hoxsey is 'aye'. Alright, Representative Miller."

"Miller 'aye'. Mulcahey, Mulcahey 'no'. Murphy, Murphy 'aye'. Neff, Neff passes. Nelson, Nelson 'aye'. Oblinger, Oblinger passes. O'Brien....Oblinger votes 'aye'. O'Brien, O'Brien passes. O'Connell, O'Connell votes 'no'. Ozella, Ozella votes 'aye'. Pechous, Pechous votes 'aye'. Peters, Peters votes 'aye'. Press the Representative's switch, please. Piel, Piel votes 'aye'. Pierce, Pierce votes 'no'. O'Brien votes 'aye'. Would you hit the Representative's switch? Polk, Polk votes 'aye'. Pouncey, Pouncey passes. Preston, Preston votes 'no'. Pullen, Pullen votes 'aye'. Rea, Rea votes 'aye'. Redmond is recorded as absent. Reed votes 'aye'. Reilly, Reilly votes 'aye'. Rhem, Rhem votes 'aye'. Richmond, Richmond passes. Rigney, Rigney votes 'aye'. Robbins, Robbins votes 'aye'. Ronan, Ronan passes. Ropp, Ropp votes 'aye'. Saltsman, Saltsman votes 'aye'. Sandquist votes 'no'. Satterthwaite, Satterthwaite passes. Schneider..."

"Representative Satterthwaite, did you want to vote, Ma'am? Pass. Schneider?"

"To explain my vote."

"Representative Schneider to explain his vote."

"We are trying to keep abreast of the information that comes in regarding the language. Representative Greiman raised a question relating to emergencies. Representative Meyer cited 1034 as a remedy for 1031. It appears that 1034 is far too restrictive to be applicable to 1031. The other Section that he cites is 1043 which takes it away from the EPA and really resides with the Attorney General after 30 days notice. So, you're extending again that notice provision. You're taking it away from the agency. It does not solve the question of the emergency and I would 120  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 ask that you continue to vote 'no' if your argument or your persuasiveness is going to be...if you're going to be persuaded by the argument that Representative Greiman....so, vote 'no'."

"Schneider votes 'no'. Schraeder, Schraeder votes 'aye'. Schuneman, Schuneman passes. Slape, Slape votes 'aye'. Irv Smith, Irv Smith votes 'aye'. Margaret Smith, Margaret Smith votes 'aye'. Stanley, Stanley votes 'aye'. Stearney, Stearney passes. Steczo, Steczo votes 'no'. E. G. Steele, E. G. Steele votes 'aye'. Stewart, Stewart votes 'aye'. C. M. Stiehl, C. M. Stiehl votes 'aye'. Would you press the Representative's button? Stuffle, Stuffle votes 'aye'. Swanstrom...push your button, Representative. Swanstrom votes 'aye'. Tate, Tate votes 'aye'. Telcser, Telcser passes. Terzich, Terzich passes. Topinka, Topinka votes 'aye'. Tuerk, Tuerk votes 'aye'. Turner, Turner votes 'no'. Van Duyne, Van Duyne votes 'aye'. Vinson, Vinson votes 'aye'. Vitek, Vitek votes 'aye'. Watson, Watson votes 'aye'. White, Representative White passes. Wikoff, Wikoff votes 'aye'. Winchester, Winchester votes 'aye'. J. J. Wolf, J. J. Wolf votes 'aye'. Sam Wolf, Sam Wolf votes 'aye'. Woodyard, Woodyard votes 'aye'. Younge, Younge votes 'aye'. Yourell, Yourell passes. Zito, Zito votes 'no'. Would you press the Representative's button? Zwick, Zwick votes 'no'. Mr. Speaker, not recorded."

"Okay. Representative Macdonald wishes to be recorded as 'aye'."

"Macdonald 'aye'."

"Representative Hoffman, 'aye'. Representative Johnson, 'no'. Okay, now, we've had two people change their votes without telling the Chair. Representative Margaret Smith, how do you desire to be recorded, Ma'am?" 121  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"I'm voted 'aye'."

"Would you push your button as 'aye', please? Thank you. Alright, Representative Ewell. Representative Ewell. How is Representative Ewell recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Would somebody please push Representative Ewell's switch back to 'aye'? This is on a verified Roll Call. Okay now, Representative DiPrima. Change Representative DiPrima from 'no' to 'aye'. Representative Johnson, did you wish to be...your light's on, Sir. You are recorded as 'no', Sir. Representative Abramson?"

"Record me as 'aye'."

"Record Representative Abramson as 'aye'. Alright, Representative Darrow? Record Representative Darrow as 'aye'. Representative Stewart?"

"As 'no'."

"Alright, Representative Stewart wishes to be changed to 'aye' to 'no'. Alright, Representative Beatty, record Representative Beatty as 'no'. Representative Richmond? Record Representative Richmond as 'aye'. Representative McGrew? McGrew 'aye'. Representative Pouncey? 'aye'. Representative Huff, I believe you are recorded as 'aye', Sir. Oh, Representative Huff, then, 'aye'. Representative Kornowicz? How do you wish to be recorded, Sir? 'No'. Kornowicz, 'no'. Representative Krska? 'Aye'. Representative White, 'no'. Representative Donovan 'aye'. Balanoff, 'no'. Satterthwaite, 'no'. McPike, 'aye'. Kane, 'no'. Ewell, alright, change Representative Ewell from 'aye' to 'no'. Alright now, further additions or changes? Who's calling? Representative Catania, from...you recorded as 'present'. Alright, you wish to be recorded as 'no'? Would you push your button as 'no'? Thank you. Alright, any other 122  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 changes or additions? Clerk will take the record. On this issue there are 112 'aye', 36 'no', 1 voting 'present'. Senate Bill 1060 having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. Representative Peters?"

"Mr. Speaker, for the purposes of a Motion."

"Proceed."

"Mr. Speaker, I would now move that the House recess until six p.m. this evening."

"The Gentleman's moved that the House recess until six p.m. this evening. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The House will stand in recess until six p.m. The Gentleman from the electrician's firm are going to work on the equipment during that period of time. We are very hopeful that when we come back in Session, we'll be able to proceed with the operation of the equipment. So, please eat dinner. We undoubtedly will be working very, very late this evening. So have your dinner, be back promptly at six and we can go ahead with the legislation as announced previously. House will stand in recess. Representative Huff? House is in recess."

"Would you please vote your switches. For a test? It's the income tax Bill. The switches are closed now, it's too late. Can't change your vote. Representative Brummer did you want to explain your vote?"

"Precisely, Your Honor. You've been ignoring me numerous times this Session on explanation of vote. I thought maybe this time you would recognize me. The number that is on the board is not found in the Digest but knowing that you lead this House in a fair and honorable manner, I'll vote 'yes' on this."

"Will Representative Davis come to the podium?" 123  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Will all unauthorized people please leave the floor? The House will be in order. The Members will be in their seats. I'm sure that you all know that the machine, the voting machine is down and is still down. They can't give me any indication as to when it will be ready. I think that we can proceed with some order of business here this evening. And that's what we are going to try to do for a little bit. Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, circumstances beyond our control, obviously, have caused us some degree of consternation today. The Speaker has talked with the Minority Leader and they felt, assuming that the Members of the House agree, that we ought to extend the deadlines for Senate Bills, Third Reading, at least, until tomorrow night at midnight. I assume that when the Minority Leader comes on the floor we will make that Motion."

"That's for all Bills, Representative Telcser."

"For all Bills...for all Bills that would die tonight. We will be extending that deadline until tomorrow night and some time before we adjourn this evening, when the Minority Leader is on the floor, one of us will make that Motion. In view of that, we would also like to give everyone an opportunity, the time constraints tomorrow, notwithstanding, the opportunity to have their Second Reading Bills heard. So, what we're going to try, so what we're going to do and...what we are going to do is let the Clerk read every Senate Bill that's on Second Reading. Read that Bill a second time, to fulfill the constitutional requirement for readings on three separate legislative days. Leave those Bills on Second Reading and time...if there's enough time tomorrow, we can take the Amendments to those Bill, if any, and then pursuant to the rules hear the Bill on Third Reading, also tomorrow. So, Mr. Speaker, if 124  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 the Clerk would read the Senate Bills on Second Reading a second time, leave them on Second until tomorrow's calendar is printed. We have at least then given everybody in the House, on both sides of the aisle, a chance to maybe...maybe have a chance to hear their Bill heard tomorrow on Third Reading."

"Mr. Bianco, do you seek recognition? Mr. Stearney, do you seek recognition?"

"Well yes, Mr. Speaker. I would be in opposition to that Motion. The reason being that if the board were or had been working today, we would have only gone over three or four, five more Bills at the most and so, I see no reason for extending the deadlines. I think the deadline should be imposed. We wouldn't go any much further than we did if the board had been working and yesterday we considered this very same Motion and if we're going to go on now to say that Second Bills on Second Reading should be heard and then moved down to Third Reading then we're really extending the deadlines and we will be here until July 10th or even longer. There's no reason whatsoever. We should refuse to extend the deadlines at all. And any Senate Bill pending should die just like any House Bill in the Senate will, necessarily, die because the Senate has never customarily and traditionally extended any deadlines, if any, to allow any House Bill to remain alive. We should move ahead and consider the Appropriation Bills after midnight and even now but move ahead on the Third Readings, Senate Bills and after midnight we would adjourn and come back tomorrow and Sunday and consider Appropriation Bill and Concurrence Reports. But we should not extend any deadlines because we are never, never going to finish. Tomorrow night the same Motion will again be heard; extend the deadlines and there is never an end to this. We should 125  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 put some finality to this and say tonight, midnight is the deadline. We have adhered to it. Let us move ahead, that's it. Vote 'no' on this Motion."

"Representative Telcser."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I'm not putting the motion now to extend the deadlines. That would come later this evening. I see the Minority Leader is on the floor, maybe in a little while, depending on how the machine is. All we're doing now, the Speaker, I believe, is going to go to the Order of Senate Bills, Second Reading. The Clerk will read each Bill. It will stay on Second. If there is time tomorrow, the Amendments will be offered and heard, if any, and then if there is time they can be called on Third Reading. I'm not putting any Motion right now. If the Gentleman opposes extension of deadlines at the time when that Motion is put he, of course, should then oppose that Motion."

"Representative Madigan."

"Question of Mr. Telcser. Did you just make some reference to possibly repairing the scoreboard?"

"Well, I don't know just what the condition of the scoreboard...."

"It's not repaired yet."

"And is our plan to read these Bills on Second Reading and then adjourn?"

"And leave them on Second Reading."

"The Speaker hasn't said anything about adjourning...."

"What about the adjournment?"

"Well, as we talked, Representative Madigan, if while we're going through this the machine ends up being fixed, I would suppose we'd stay, maybe, until ten o'clock or so and attempt to do some more work. Now, there isn't much sense in staying around if the machine doesn't work 126  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 and we can't vote."

"Did Mr. Telcser mention the proposal to extend the deadline until tomorrow at midnight?"

"Yes, I did, Representative."

"You'll all get a chance if you'll just give me a minute, you'll all have a turn, here. Representative Ewell, you're first."

"Mr. Speaker, first I'd like to say, I told you there would be days like this and I told you that there would come a time that you would need us all and I really hate to say that but I can't resist. The next point is, that I happen to join Representative Stearney. I've worked in this Body a large number of years and I used to work very hard and get a lot of Bills out to get them over to the Senate and we would work around the clock; midnights, days, afternoons, one, one-thirty in the morning getting Bills out. They got over to the Senate and they just simply died, d-i-e-d. They didn't die, they killed them. They would stomp them to death. Now, I'll tell you, the Bills that we're talking about are all Senate Bills. I have no emphathy for any Senate Bill, for any cause, for any purpose and we all know that we're going to be so busy around here with Conference Committees and Concurrences, I would suggest and it would be my position to the Body, is to let every Bill on here die. Let's move to the concurrences because these are House Bills. Let's agree with those that we can agree with. Set up the Conference Committees and all the people who have power and stature around here are still going to get everything they want in the Conference Committee. You know it, I know it, Mr. Madigan knows it, maybe the rest of you don't know it but you're going to get everything you want. There will be other Chairmen who will get everything they want. Let all 127  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 the Bills die. Let's work on the concurrences, let's work on the Conference Committees and we can get our work done. Thank you."

"Representative Collins."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I feel like laughing out loud at the remarks of the last Gentleman, suggesting that you need everybody to help you, Mr. Speaker. I would suggest to that Gentleman and every Member of that House that the Speaker and the Majority Leader and the Minority Leader have turned over and done handstands to try and accommodate the Members of this House. The suggested procedures outlined by the Majority Leader were to accommodate the Members of this House not to accommodate the Speaker or any of the Leadership. So, if you want to vote against a Motion to extend the deadlines, Representative Ewell or anybody else in this House, so be it. Just do it and let all these Bills die. I'm sure the Speaker nor nobody else in Leadership would give a hoot if the Bills die. They're trying to accommodate you and if you don't want an accommodation, then go ahead, vote against the Motion. Let them die and we'll all go home and have dinner and enjoy the evening."

"Representative Huff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since you won't tell us what Order of business this is, perhaps you can enlighten me as to what order of Pavlovian device this is? I mean why are you subjecting us to this Chinese water test, Mr. Speaker? Now, you know, it don't take much to realize that the man that fixed that light up there knows that device as well as I know the inside of my pocket, probably better. Now, let's face it, Mr. Speaker, we know the Queen has turned down the Mayor...or the Governor and 128  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 nothing is going to be done here. I mean, let's tell it like it is, Mr. Speaker. There's more than just mass transportation at stake in the northern district of Illinois. There's also the business of the State. As a possibility, Mr. Speaker, and you know as well as I do that until this issue is resolved that the business of the State could shut down too. Could it not? It's no wonder you won't answer that. But I'd like to suggest, Mr. Speaker..."

"Bring your remarks to a close, Representative."

"Yes, I will, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to say this, Mr. Speaker, as the Spokesman for the Royal Order of the Spearmans, back here, who reside in the dark recesses of the General Assembly and I want Representative Kulas to know that we're very partial to mushrooms. But, Mr. Speaker, I think that the situation has come to the point where we 'Spear carriers' would like to make an input as to the resolution of this problem. And I think that one way to demonstrate that, Mr. Speaker, is that I'm going to give you 20 minutes to get to some kind of order otherwise, I'm going to leave and I'm asking...I'm asking ten or fifteen of my colleagues, that I know...that I know are similarly indisposed as I am right now, to leave...out with me if for no other reason to go over to Baur's and have some mushrooms on the real side. Thank you."

"You've got eighteen minutes left, Representative. Representative Flinn. Representative Johnson."

"I don't have and I think probably a number of others don't have any Bills on the Calendar, at all. But I think that the suggestion of the Majority Leader is reasonable suggestion. We're faced with a circumstance here tonight where we have a broken machine that happens sometimes. It's beyond the control of anybody in this Chamber. It's 129  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 certainly an equal number of Bills and Amendments and everything on both sides of the aisle and the fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker and Members, if this Motion, if it's made, is defeated, the effect is going to be that we're going to have omnibus Bills with large amounts of substantive or appropriations contents in them, Conference Committee Reports that really subvert the process by taking Bills that could have been considered deliberately today or tomorrow or Sunday and come back and expect us on Tuesday or Wednesday night to vote on those Bills in one glomerated mass without any opportunity to consider them. So, those of you who think you are doing a good service for a good government by letting all the Bills die tonight, I suppose if Bills died, generally, or not so many of them were introduced, that's probably true. But the effect of defeating this thing is going to be to allow us to come here in the eleventh and a half hour and consider Bills, ten and twelve at one and not have any oppportunity for anybody to really input on those things and I think that's bad. For that reason, I hope that when Representative Telcser's Motion is made that people on both sides of the aisle, who will be equally affected by this Motion, will support Representative Telcser."

"Representative McGrew. Representative VanDuyne. Representative Ebbesen."

"Well, yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I, too, rise in support of the extension of the deadline and I say that for this reason, you know I've been here nine years and at least we have moved a lot of these Bills, all the Bills that are on Third Reading through Second Reading. And I think after the dialogue and the debate that's taken place on them that we are at least familiar by number on what is on the Bill. But I'm here to 130  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 tell you when those Conference Committees start in the next couple of days, you won't be able to identify what's where and if we don't have some semblance of sanity in casting, at least, a semi-intelligent vote by extending that deadline, I don't care if it takes an extension to tomorrow and the next day, let's do it that way because at least you know what you're voting on. But if some this legislation dies and starts showing up in Conference Committees you may be very embarrassed when you're out on a campaign trail a couple of months from now and somebody said you voted for something you were unaware of. And I would encourage everyone to cast an 'aye' vote for the proposal."

"Representative McPike."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would agree with Representative Johnson, that there is probably an equal number of Democratic and Republican Bills on the Calendar. But, Mr. Speaker, before the Motion is put to extend the deadlines, I think you should give the Members of this side of the aisle some idea of what you intend to do tomorrow. Whether you intend to follow the Priority of Call, whether or not you intend to follow the Calendar as printed, or rather we're simply going to go to those order of business that you desire and vote on those Bills that you desire and ignore all the Bills that maybe the Democrats would like to get to. There are a number of people of this side of the aisle that have no objection to taking a chance of going down the Calendar or taking a chance of going down the Priority of Call, but a number of people on this side of the aisle object when you simply pick out an order of business and pick two or three Bills that you desire to hear. Do you think it would be possible, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Speaker, do you think it would be possible to tell the Body tonight what you intend to do tomorrow? Mr. Speaker, do 131  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 you think it would be possible for you or for the Majority Leader to give us some idea before we vote? Do you think you could accommodate the Members, Mr. Speaker, by having the Majority Leader or yourself give us some idea as to what order we're going to follow? Or are we going to do the same thing we did this morning?"

"Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, regarding the order of business tomorrow, my only suggestion would be that perhaps the Speaker and the Minority Leader meet first thing in the morning and try and ascertain an order of call. I don't know that I'm in a position to know just what is in.....well, the Minority Leader doesn't want help make the decision....I don't know. Mr. Speaker, would you like me to put the Motion now so we can maybe get out of here?"

"No. I can tell you what we're going to be doing tomorrow, Representative Telcser, we're going to be here listening to everybody talk because the board is about to burn up. Representative O'Brien."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Members. I think we, basically, have two issues before us. One of them is to extend the deadline and I don't think we have a choice in this room but to extend the deadline with the problem with the machine. The second is, whether or not we read these Bills a second time into the record and then leave these Bills on Second Reading with the opportunity to still go through the Amendments and still pass the Bills tomorrow, the same Legislative Day, on Third Reading. I think that Representative McPike brought up a few important points. If we're going to be on the Priority of Call, as published by the Clerk's Office, or if we're going to go to a special order of business designed by the Chair as we did 132  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 this afternoon when the three Insurance Bills were called under a special order of business. I think that it would behoove the Leaders, right now, on our side and your side to sit down and to decide just exactly how much time and how many Bills will be on a Priority of Call and whether or not we can get a commitment from the Chair in relation to special order of business. Now, we all know that you're going to use, Mr. Speaker, the gavel like you have used it. You're going to call what you want to call and I can't blame you for that. But I think we, as Members, can't leave tonight without some sort of arrangement made so that we will all, at least, have a shot with our Bills that are on Third Reading and those that are on Second Reading. I think you should address yourself to that, Mr. Speaker, before we can make a decision on any of the Motions."

"Representative McMaster."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that we all recognize the problem that we are facing. I think that the fact that we must extend the deadline is well known to all of us. I think that this must be done. Nevertheless, we are going to continue to face deadlines from now until the end of June, the last day of June. I'm in favor of Artie Telcser's Motion to extend the deadlines. I think that we should add one thing to it. Mr. Speaker, please listen to me, and Artie you too. You can talk on the phone later, and Madigan and all of you, listen. When you're through talking I'll continue. I think another problem that we have is, that we must expedite the operation of this House and I think one good addition to your Motion, Artie, is to do away with explanation of votes and get this damn show on the road and get things moving. And let's get it done and add to your Motion, doing away with explanation of votes and I'll support you. Otherwise, I can stay here all 133  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 summer if you guys can."

"Senate Bills on Second Reading, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bills, Second Reading. Senate Bill 17, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 143, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the rate of interest and other charges in connection with the sale on credit and the lending of monies, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 160, a Bill for an Act in relationship to protest against zoning Amendments, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 169, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to revise the law in relationship to clerks of courts, Second Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Madigan, do you seek recognition? Oh, Representative Getty."

"Mr. Speaker, I was seeking your recognition when 160 was on the board and I would appreciate your going back to that so that I can make the record while 160 is on the board. That was a request by a Member."

"Representative Getty, can...these Bills are going to remain on Second Reading, again, tomorrow if you could make..."

"I understand...all I want to do is make the record...right now."

"Okay, let's go back to Senate Bill 160 so Mr. Getty can make the record."

"There was a request when this Bill was last on the Order of Second Reading that this Bill because the title was amended, go back to the Order of Second Reading, First Legislative Day. It is still on the Order of Second Reading. It has never been returned to the Order of Second Reading, First Legislative Day. I just want to have the record clear that when we come back to it tomorrow that 134  72nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 26, 1981 that request is still going to be put and I would ask that that request be honored."

"That's right, Representative Getty, and the Bill is properly on the Order of Second Reading, now, only because we hadn't completed all the Amendments."

"I have no objection. I just wanted to make the record clear."

"Proceed, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 169, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to revise the law in relationship to clerks of the courts, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 269, a Bill for an Act creating the Compensation Review Board, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 294, a Bill for an Act concerning public utilities, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 339, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Illinois Law Enforcement Commission and to various State agencies which participate in the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration Statewide Plan Program, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 381, a Bill for an Act making appropriation from the Metropolitan Fair and Exposition Auditorium (sic) Authority Reconstruction Fund to the Metropolitan Fair and Exposition Authority, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 423, a Bill for an Act to amend the State Printing Contracts Act, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 469, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Banking Act, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 499, a Bill for an Act to amend Inheritance and Transfer Tax Law, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 501, a Bill for an Act to amend the Election Code, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 507, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the operation of records and the auditing of public transportation carriers, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate 135  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Bill. Senate Bill 517, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Court of Claims for certain awards against the State of Illinois in conformity with awards made by the Court of Claims, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 547, a Bill for an Act to limit liability of persons and organizations in connection with the donation of food for free distribution to needy persons, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 636, a Bill for an Act regarding exemptions from certain occupation and use tax for certain machinery and equipment, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 657, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the composition and election of county boards in certain counties, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 670, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the furnishing of legislative staff, secretarial, clerical, research, technical, telephone, other utility services, office equipment and office rental costs to Members of the General Assembly, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 671, a Bill for an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the General Assembly, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 703, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unemployment Insurance Act, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 707, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 956, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Capital Development Board for the Department of Conservation, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1049, a Bill for an Act to amend the Fish Code, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1064, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the partial exclusion of sale of farm machinery and equipment for use tax, service use tax, service occupation tax and retailers' occupation tax, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1157, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Illinois Performing 136.  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Arts and Film Commission, Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1228, a Bill for an Act making appropriation for the development and implementation of a financial reporting system which is in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles, Second Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I now move to suspend the provisions of Rule 35(g) so that the deadlines under which we are now functioning be extended until midnight, June 23, Saturday night. That's tomorrow night, I'm sorry...27th...June 27."

"Representative McClain."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Would the Gentleman yield to a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"You know, Art, is it your intention as Majority Leader of the Majority Party to again go through a special order of call tomorrow as your Speakers did today?"

"Representative, that is not my decision to make, as you well know and I'm not aware of any intent on the part of anyone to go to a special order of business. I, frankly, do not know if the reason...if it would arise or not...if the necessity would arise or not. I couldn't predict it. It's not on my mind to go to the order of special call tomorrow. But I don't make that decision..."

"What we're concerned about on this side is that we're all for accommodating the Membership but if you have a special order of call tomorrow and you only take care of the special items that maybe your Leadership is concerned about, you're not really accommodating the Membership, you're only accommodating a few. So, if you could promise us that you're going down the Priority of Call, I think 137  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 that's fair. But if you're going to go jump around so that some of your Members never get considered and most of our Members do not get considered, that's not really fair."

"Well, I think you're right. If one side is considered and not the other, and frankly, I don't how the Bills break out and without trying to make a defense or offense of special orders of business, a special order of business, the subject matter, notwithstanding, would have Bills called from Members of both parties. They may or may not be equal or your Party may have more Sponsors than my Party. So, I don't think it would be unfair, in terms of Republicans and Democrats but it's not in my mind to go to a special order of business, Mike."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, if I may? Without some sort of commitment from, for the Minority side that the Chair will not go to a special order of call only to take care of some select areas of the law, like Insurance Code or Medical Code or whatever you want to do. I don't think that really accommodating the people that are in charge of managing the House just for the Minority Party to be in a bad shape tomorrow does us any good and absent that, I think that the vote should not be there unless the Chair promises to go down the Priority Call, which is fair to all the Members and no special orders of call. Just go straight down the Priority of Call. Absent that, I don't think a majority of us and...absent that I don't think a majority of us ought to support that and I'd ask the Chair to grant us a Roll Call on that and five Members joining us."

"Former President of the Senate and now Commissioner, Bill Harris, with us here this evening. Welcome to the Illinois House, Senator Harris. Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, several Members on this side of the aisle 138  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 apparently are concerned about the possibility that the Chair would establish subject matter, special orders of business and in terms of our scheduling for tomorrow, I think that it would be helpful if we could determine among our Membership whether there might be some consensus among the Membership as to subject matter, special orders that could be established and I would like at this time to appoint Representative McClain as the Democrat who will work with the Democratic Members to fashion what they would consider to be appropriate special order, subject matters, special order. So, if all Democrats who have any ideas on what the subject matter, special order should be, would see Representative McClain before we leave tonight, we could expedite that process."

"Your point is well taken, Representative Madigan. Representative Matijevich."

"Well, Art, I want to put this whole thing in historical prospective. I know the last time we had a major breakdown in the machinery, you were a Majority Leader for Blair and the only difference is the parts were coming from the East Coast rather than North Dakota and I want to do everything I can to cooperate, in fact, I have a car out there and I will even drive to the airport to help bring those parts in. And I told the Members when they came in tonight, hey, you won't be here until midnight because the last time this happened we adjourned about nine o'clock. Everyone went home, the gavel went down. We got an extension. So, whatever is going to happen, is going to happen. But I'll be damned if I believe that machine is broken."

"Representative Bowman."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I don't believe you ever responded to Representative McClain's...Did you indicate that...whether 139  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 you have...?"

"I responded to the Minority Leader, Representative Bowman. Representative Terzich."

"Mr. Speaker, you're not with me. I'm talking about his request for a Roll Call. I think the last time....okay."

"He'll get a Roll Call, Representative Bowman."

"Okay, thank you very much."

"Absolutely. Representative Terzich."

"Why yes, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I know many Members that worked on their Bills quite hard and long and many hours and I would, you know, I think it's only fair that they have at least a crack at passing their Bill whether it's been up or down. There's many of us who have not even had the opportunity to present our Bills and I think it would be very unfair. And I was wondering if the Majority Leader could express to me whether or not the Bills that are presently on Third Reading will hold precedent over those Bills that are presently on Second Reading that were previously read? Whether we will hear all of the Third Readings before we will even get to those Second Readings tomorrow?"

"Representative, I'm not sure I can answer your question. I understand what you're saying but I think that the Priority of Call as an example, depends upon when the Bills report out of Committee and I don't know that all Bills on Second Reading now, have an early or later Priority of Call than those that appear on Third Reading. Additionally, some are appropriation Bills that are not subject to the same deadline and in addition thereto to that if we go on the numerical sequence of call, then some Bills would still have a priority in terms of the call. Some would come up later because of numerical sequence. So, it's difficult answer. The only way to do that, maybe, 140  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 is to do a special call or a special order which some of your Members don't want the Speaker to do. But I think we could work it out."

"Well, it's good to see that you learn how to speak Crotation very quickly but I would suggest there's only one thing worse than getting the Bills dropped like that, is maybe you had better consider some Consent Calendar or Priority List or something, agreed list Bill, so at least if people can have..."

"Good idea, you may be right."

"Now, Representative Schraeder, it's your turn."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I'll be very brief. I'm only going to support this Motion if I get a consent from you, as Speaker, or the Majority Leader that there will be a Priority of Call Calendar. If we don't follow the Priority, you count my vote as 'no' right now. Thank you."

"Representative Kane, before you fall asleep there."

"Would the Majority Leader respond to a question?"

"He indicates that he will."

"You indicated that you were making this Motion on behalf of the Members. I'm wondering if you would indicate how many Members came to you and asked you to extend the deadline?"

"Representative, I didn't keep a count. I have one Member on your side, in particular, who impressed me with an Amendment that that Member had to one of the Bills on Second Reading and expressed great dismay last night about the Members inability to offer the Amendment. That's one in particular. It happens to be an outstanding Democratic Member, showing their concern about the Bill dying on Second Reading. I have one Member on my side of the aisle who has been very concerned about having a Bill read a 141  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 second time...oh, I don't know, two, three, four, five, seven, I don't know."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, the question about what's going to get called tomorrow and what isn't going to get called tomorrow, I think is important. As a Member of the Minority Party and the Minority Party in general, I don't think has any great desire to run the House. It's been run by the Majority Party and should be run by the Majority Party but what our concern is, is that we be told in advance what's going to happen. I don't think that any parliamentary Body ought to operate without an agenda. We have a Calendar and we have a Priority of Call. If you do have certain subject matters that you want to consider, just tell us what they are. I don't think that that's too much to ask for and if you're not going to tell us what they are I would urge everybody to vote 'no'. I think the Members, as a whole, should know what's going to happen and what the intent of the Leadership is. If you don't know what you're going to do then you ought to step out of leadership."

"Representative Levin."

"Thank you. Would my distinguished district mate yield? Representative Terzich I think, raised a good point a couple of minutes ago. You know, I would tend to support an additional day because of the fact we weren't able to get anything done today but one day to deal with approximately 140 Bills is a rather substantial task. And you know, I'm wondering if there is any serious thought and anything going to be done as far as the idea of having a Short Debate Calendar or something of that sort so that we can deal expeditiously with as many Bills as possible?"

"My personal view is that it is a good idea. I just spoke with Representative Terzich. I like the idea. I 142  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 think it could help everybody get a chance at their Bill and when we adjourn I'll talk to our staff people and Repre....Speaker Ryan and the Minority Leader, Madigan and see if we can't work that out. I happen to agree with you. I hope we can do it."

"Representative Deuster."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, as a Member of the Majority Party, I would like to express my feeling that we ought to oppose this Motion to extend the deadline. All you have to do is look at this Priority of Call list and look at the Calendar and measure that against your experience, even if you are a first term Member, and you know that all these Bills are not going to be called. I have a couple of Bills on here and other Members do and we work hard on our Bills, however, we've come to the time of deadline. We need tomorrow and Sunday and Monday to look at Conference Committee Reports. I would say this, I have filed a Motion and there is a Motion on the Calendar, which you will find to place all of these Senate Bills which would otherwise expire on the Spring 1982 Calendar. That's the way we treated our House Bills. I would say this, for those of you who think well, there are some very serious problems facing the State of Illinois that have not yet met, those problems can be met by Majority Party and your Minority Party, putting those provisions in Conference Committee Reports. I've looked over this list myself and with proper respect for my own Bills as well as the Bills of other Members, I don't think there's very many, if any, on here that are so critical that the State of Illinois would sink into Lake Michigan tomorrow if they weren't passed. They could be passed next year and they can be presented in Conference Committee Reports. I think the proper thing to do, for us to have an orderly process here 143  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 and you know we'll spend all day tomorrow and if we get a few verifications and a couple of groups who decide to filibuster in some way and explain their vote, we'll spend all day tomorrow and we'll take three or four out of these....Bills out of this list and we'll accomplish very little except to muddy up the process. So, very respectfully, I don't think there are any devious plans on the part of anybody...part to slip anything over onus. I don't think that the skids are greased for anything but I do think that an orderly process is for us to stick with our deadline, put these Senate Bills on the Spring 82 Calendar and that will let the Conference Committee Reports deal with the very vital and crucial issues that still need to be met for the State of Illinois. I would urge a 'no' vote on this Motion."

"Representative Oblinger."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, I was very amazed at what I just heard. I'm in favor of extending the deadlines and I'll tell you why. Remember what happened at the end of the Session last year? We all depended upon a Conference Report and like a bunch of idiots, we voted for it without knowing what was in it and we found out we had raised our pensions and we had to go back the next day and go back and have a reconsideration. I want part of the decision-making. I didn't come here to have somebody else making decisions for me and I want that extended so that we have that property."

"Representative Sandquist."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"Representative Sandquist has moved the previous question. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Motion carries. Representative Telcser, do you want to restate your 144  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Motion?"

"I simply appreciate your favorable Roll Call. I believe it's 89 votes. Is that right, Mr. Speaker?"

"That's right. Representative McMaster."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I got up and talked earlier about doing away with explanation of votes. I talked to Artie. I talked to Mike Madigan well I talked to Mike Getty and I couldn't get to Mike Madigan but I think that doing away with the explanation of votes will expedite this thing for the rest of the Session. Mike Madigan, will you listen to me? I think it's a good thing. I think we need to do it. Mike, you haven't answered me."

"Representative Madigan doesn't agree with that, Representative McMaster."

"Alright, I tried."

"Call the Roll, Mr. Clerk. All the Members will be in their seats. The board doesn't work. We're going to have to do this orally. Read the Roll Call, Mr. Clerk. Representative Daniels in the Chair."

"Abramson. Abramson votes 'aye'. Ackerman. Ackerman votes 'aye'. Alexander. Alexander votes 'aye'. Alstat. Alstat votes 'aye'. Balanoff. Balanoff votes 'aye'. Barkhausen. Barkhausen votes 'aye'. Barnes. Barnes votes 'no'. Barr. Barr votes 'aye'. Bartulis. Bartulis passes. Beatty. Beatty votes 'no'. Bell. Bartulis votes 'aye'. Bell votes 'no'. Bianco. Bianco votes 'aye'. Birkinbine. Birkinbine votes 'aye'. Bluthardt. Bluthardt passes. Boucek. Boucek votes 'no'. Bower. Bower passes. Bowman. Bowman votes 'no'. Bradley. Bradley passes. Braun. Braun passes. Breslin. Breslin votes 'no'. Brummer. Brummer votes 'no'. Bullock. Bullock votes 'aye'."

"The electrician just took the record. Alright, 145  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 the electrician accidentally took the record. So, we'll have to record the people that voted. The Clerk will quickly read the people that already voted and their vote and would you please add that to it when he reads your name. Wait a second, we have one vote on the board. Representative Stearney, would you please either take your paper clip out of the switch or not vote it. Now, clear the board. Thank you. Alright."

"Abramson voted 'aye'. Vote your switch, Representative."

"Please vote your switch."

"Ackerman 'aye'. Alexander 'aye'. Alstat 'aye'. Balanoff 'aye'. Barkhausen 'aye'. Barnes 'no'. Barr 'aye'. Bartulis 'aye'. Beatty 'no'. Bell 'no'. Bianco 'aye'. Birkinbine 'aye'. Bluthardt 'passes'. Boucek 'no'."

"Would somebody press Bianco's switch 'aye'? Thank you."

"Boucek 'no'. Bower..."

"He's in the back."

"Bowman 'no'. Bradley passes. Braun passes. Breslin 'no'. Brummer 'no'. Bullock 'aye'. Continuing with the Roll Call. Capparelli. Capparelli passes. Carey. Carey passes. Catania. Catania votes 'aye'. Chapman. Chapman passes. Christensen. Christensen passes. Collins. Collins votes 'aye'. Conti. Conti votes 'aye'. Cullerton. Cullerton votes 'aye'. Currie. Currie votes 'aye'. Daniels. Daniels votes 'aye'. Darrow. Darrow votes 'no'. Davis. Davis votes 'aye'. Deuchler. Deuchler votes 'no'. Deuster. Deuster votes 'no'. DiPrima. DiPrima passes.

"Boucek, 'no'. Bower passes. Bowman, 'no'. Bradley passes. Braun passes. Breslin, 'no'. Brummer, 146  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 'no'. Bullock, 'aye'. Continuing with the Roll Call. Capparelli. Capparelli passes. Carey. Carey passes. Catania. Catania vote 'aye'. Chapman. Chapman passes. Christensen. Christensen passes. Collins. Collins votes 'aye'. Conti. Conti votes 'aye'. Cullerton. Cullerton votes 'aye'. Currie. Currie votes 'aye'. Daniels. Daniels votes 'aye'. Darrow. Darrow votes 'no'. Davis. Davis votes 'aye'. Deuchler. Deuchler votes 'no'. Deuster. Deuster votes 'no'. DiPrima. DiPrima passes. Domico. Domico passes. Donovan. Donovan votes 'aye'. Doyle. Doyle passes. Jack Dunn. Jack Dunn votes 'aye'. John Dunn. John Dunn votes 'no'. Ralph Dunn. Ralph Dunn votes 'aye'. Ebbesen. Ebbesen votes 'aye'. Epton. Epton votes 'no'. Ewell. Ewell votes 'no'. Ewing. Ewing votes 'aye'. Farley. Farley passes. Fawell. Fawell votes 'aye'. Findley. Findley votes 'aye'. Flinn. Flinn passes. Virginia Frederick. Virginia Frederick votes 'no'. Dwight Friedrich. Dwight Friedrich votes 'aye'. Garmisa is recorded as absent. Getty. Representative Getty passes. Giglio. Giglio votes 'no'. Giorgi. Giorgi votes 'aye'. Greiman. Greiman votes 'aye'. Griffin. Griffin passes. Grossi. Grossi votes 'aye'. Hallock. Hallock votes 'aye'. Hallstrom. Hallstrom votes 'aye'. Hanahan. Hanahan passes. Hannig. Hannig votes 'aye'. Hastert. Hastert votes 'aye'. Henry. Henry passes. Henry votes 'aye'. Hoffman. Hoffman votes 'no'. Hoxsey. Hoxsey passes. Hudson. Hudson passes. Hudson votes 'aye'. Huff. Huff passes. Huskey. Huskey votes 'aye'. Jackson."

"Excuse me. Representative Greiman, why are you... alright. You wish to be recorded as what? Greiman is 'no'. Proceed, Sir."

"Jackson votes 'aye'. Jaffe. Jaffe votes 'no'. 147  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Johnson. Johnson passes. Jones. Jones votes 'aye'. Kane. Kane passes. Kane votes 'no'."

"Representative Johnson. Johnson, 'aye'. Kane votes 'no'. Continue."

"Karpiel. Karpiel votes 'aye'. Katz. Katz passes. Keane. Katz votes 'no'. Would you please press his switch. Thank you. Keane. Keane votes 'no'. Jim Kelley. Jim Kelley votes 'aye'. Dick Kelly. Dick Kelly votes 'no'. Klemm. Klemm votes 'no'. Kociolko. Kociolko votes 'aye'. Koehler. Koehler votes 'no'. Hit your switch, Ma'am. Kornowicz. Kornowicz passes. Kosinski. Kosinski passes. Krska. Krska passes. Kucharski. Kucharski votes 'aye'. Kulas. Kulas passes. Kustra. Kustra votes 'no'. Laurino. Laurino passes. Lechowicz. Lechowicz passes. Leinenweber. Leinenweber votes 'no'. Leon. Leon passes. Leverenz. Leverenz passes. Levin. Levin votes 'aye'. Macdonald. Macdonald votes 'no'. Madigan. Madigan votes 'aye'. Margalus is recorded as absent. Martire. Martire passes. Matijevich. Matijevich votes 'no'. Mautino."

"Representative Mautino."

"Thank you, Speaker. I would like to explain my vote since my light has been on since the Motion was originally made. This House of Representatives, at 3:30, since 3:30 has not acted on one Bill. That's approximately five hours. We were probably at that time moving as swiftly as we normally would do under the electronic system that supposedly went down. What is important to me and to my downstate colleagues on both sides of the aisle and one previous speaker during debate is that if, in fact, you do want to be part of the legislative process and have input into the system your vote on this question should be 'no'. And you know why it should be 'no'? Today is the 26th. We have five days to the end of the month. Now you're not 148  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 going to see those Conference Committee reports until the last two. At least with a 'no' vote on this question you will have the opportunity to examine anything that's coming across. And if you want to be a part of it vote 'no' and that's the way I'm voting."

"Mautino votes 'no'. Mays. Mays votes 'aye'. McAuliffe. McAuliffe votes 'aye'. McBroom. McBroom votes 'aye'. McClain. McClain votes 'no'. McCormick. McCormick votes 'aye'. McGrew. McGrew passes. McMaster."

"Representative McMaster."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To explain my vote. I spoke earlier this evening. I'm not sure yet whether it had any effect or not. I am perfectly willing to extend deadlines but believe me, if we extend deadlines without removing the right for explanation of vote all we are doing is spinning our wheels. We will face another deadline another night and we will again have to extend them as long as we keep on wasting the time with superfluous talking on explanation of votes. And unless you put in removal of explanation of votes I will not vote for an extension deadline. I vote 'no'."

"McMaster votes 'no'. McPike. McPike votes 'aye'. Roland Meyer. Roland Meyer votes 'no'. Ted Meyer. Ted Meyer passes. Miller. Miller votes 'aye'. Mulcahey. Mulcahey votes 'no'. Murphy. Murphy votes 'aye'. Neff. Neff passes. Nelson. Nelson votes 'no'. Oblinger. Oblinger votes 'aye'. O'Brien. O'Brien votes 'aye'. O'Connell. O'Connell passes. Ozella. Ozella votes 'no'. Pechous."

"Representative Pechous."

"Mr. Speaker, perhaps overlooked by some and I'm going to say it and voice it very clearly, the people's business ought not to have a deadline and, therefore, I vote 'yes'." 149  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Pechous, 'aye'. Peters. Peters, 'aye'. Piel. Piel, 'no'. Pierce. Pierce passes. Polk. Polk votes 'aye'. Pouncey. Pouncey votes 'aye'. Preston. Preston votes 'no'. Pullen. Pullen votes 'aye'. Rea. Rea votes 'aye'. Redmond is recorded as absent. Reed. Reed votes 'aye'. Reilly. Reilly votes 'aye'. Rhem. Rhem votes 'aye'. Richmond. Richmond passes. Rigney. Rigney votes 'aye'. Robbins. Robbins votes 'aye'. Ronan. Ronan votes 'no'. Ropp. Ropp votes 'aye'. Saltsman. Saltsman votes 'no'. Sandquist. Sandquist votes 'aye'. Satterthwaite. Satterthwaite votes 'no'. Schneider. Schneider votes 'no'. Schraeder. Schraeder votes 'no'. Schuneman. Schuneman passes. Slape. Slape votes 'no'. Irv Smith. Irv Smith passes. Margaret Smith. Margaret Smith passes. Stanley. Stanley votes 'aye'. Stearney. Stearney votes 'no'. Steczo. Steczo votes 'no'. E.G. Steele. E.G. Steele votes 'no'. Stewart. Stewart votes 'aye'. C.M. Stiehl. C.M. Stiehl votes 'aye'. Stuffle. Stuffle votes 'aye'. Swanstrom. Swanstrom votes 'no'. Tate. Tate votes 'aye'. Telcser. Telcser votes 'aye'. Terzich. Terzich votes 'aye'. Topinka. Topinka votes 'no'. Tuerk. Tuerk votes 'aye'. Turner. Turner votes 'aye'. Van Duyne. Van Duyne passes. Vinson. Vinson passes. Vitek. Vitek votes 'no'."

"Representative Vitek."

"Mr. Speaker, in explaining my vote. I think I've heard a sensible argument for a 'no' vote from Mautino, Deuster and McMaster. Since we don't have any program that we're going to vote on I think that until such time as they produce that thing to us we should all vote 'no'. I'm against the extension until we get that."

"Do you vote 'no', Sir? Vitek, 'no'."

"Vitek, 'no'. Watson. Watson votes 'aye'. White. 150  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 White votes 'aye'. Wikoff. Wikoff votes 'aye'. Winchester. Winchester votes 'aye'. J.J. Wolf."

"Representative J.J. Wolf." Wolf, J.J: "Yeah, Mr. Speaker, by way of explanation. I think part of the reason we're in this bind at the end of the Session as we usually do because in every Session we got eight or ten twits that have to explain their vote on every issue that comes along and prides themselves at being great interpreters of the rules. We spend countless hours a day with the same people coming up with the same dumb explanations of the vote on Bills that are either won by 30, 40 or 50 votes and that can be controlled by the Chair. And I would hope that the Chair would not recognize these people. And I can tell you this, Mr. Speaker, if I have an opportunity to be temporary the Speaker between now and the end of Session again, I'm not going to recognize them but I'm going to vote 'aye'."

"J.J. Wolf, 'aye'. Sam Wolf. Sam Wolf passes. Woodyard. Woodyard votes 'no'. Younge. Press your switch, Representative. Younge votes 'aye'. Yourell."

"Representative Yourell."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The comedy of errors continues. The kindest thing that we can do to ourselves and to the people of Illinois is to adjourn sine die as I suggested earlier today. Last night we were told at 12:00 that all of the Bills, Senate Bills on Second Reading would die at midnight. Now I see that all of those Bills are alive and well and added to the clutter on the calendar and if anybody thinks if we extend this deadline another 24 hours you're going to get to all of these Bills on this priority of call list and all of the Bills that have just been read a second time, Senate Bills a second time into the record, it's like shoveling sand against the tide. 151  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 It's not going to happen. You all know that. Those of you have been here years and years and years know it. It's a contrive situation. They try to wear you down to beat you senseless and then in the wee hours of the 30th the Conference Committee reports flow across your desk and nothing ever happens but bad things for the people in the state of Illinois. Be kind to yourselves. Be kind to the people. Let's adjourn sine die. I vote 'no'."

"Yourell votes 'no'. Zito. Zito votes 'no'. Zwick. Zwick votes 'no'. Mr. Speaker is not on the Roll."

"We still have some people that haven't voted. Representative Vinson."

"Mr. Speaker, I vote 'aye'."

"Vinson, 'aye'. Record the Speaker as 'aye'. Alright, Representative Leverenz."

"No."

"Leverenz, 'no'. Hoxsey, 'aye'. Bower, 'aye'. Press your button, Mr. Bower. Neff, 'aye'. Representative Roland Meyer, 'aye'. Representative Ted Meyer, 'no'. 'Aye'. Ted Meyer, 'aye'. Press your button, Mr. Meyer. Alright, further changes? Representative Farley, 'no'. Alright, Representative McPike."

"Change me to 'no'."

"Change Representative McPike from 'aye' to 'no'. Representative Balanoff."

"Please change me to 'no'."

"Change Representative Balanoff from 'aye' to 'no'. Representative O'Connell."

"Mr. Speaker, in explaining my vote it may be meaningless but for six months all I hear from my constituents is what's happening with the RTA. Now, I don't know what occurred today between the Governor and the Mayor and probably nobody really knows except the Governor 152  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 or the Mayor. But all I know is that we at least have another 24 hours to try to do something at least to tell our people back home that we did everything we could. Now, despite the fact that there may be a Special Session I still think there are 24 hours at least that we can go back and say we tried and we either succeeded or failed. For that reason I vote 'aye'."

"O'Connell, 'aye'. Representative Huff."

"Mr. Speaker, how am I recorded?"

"How is the Gentleman recorded, Mr. Clerk."

"The Gentleman is not recorded as voting."

"I vote 'no'."

"Record Representative Huff as 'no'. Okay, Representative Alexander."

"Mr. Speaker, will you change me to 'no', please?"

"Change Representative Alexander from 'aye' to 'no'. Alright, Representative Swanstrom."

"Mr. Speaker, how am I recorded?"

"How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman's recorded as voting 'no'."

"Please vote me 'yes'."

"Change Representative Swanstrom from 'no' to 'aye'. Would you push your button, Sir? Representative Piel."

"Change me to 'aye', please."

"Change Representative Piel from 'no' to 'aye'. Representative Christensen. Christensen. Your button was on, Sir. Do you no longer... Alright, the Gentleman wants to be recorded as not being around. Representative Murphy."

"How am I recorded, Sir?"

"How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'." 153  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Please vote me 'no'."

"Alright, change Representative Murphy from 'aye' to 'no'. Representative Carey."

"Please vote me 'present'."

"Push your switch, Representative. Do you want to push your switch? Do you have it on yet. Okay, fine. Alright, further changes or additions? Representative Martire."

"Mr. Speaker, vote me 'no'."

"Record Representative Martire as 'no'. Alright. Have all voted who wish? Have all... alright. Now, wait a second. I got two... alright, Representative Griffin. Record him as 'aye'. Representative Leon. Record Representative Leon as 'aye'. Alright, any other changes or additions? Take the record. On this Motion there are 91 'aye', 56 'no', one 'present'. The Motion prevails. We're running a test of the machine again so if you want to just... Just press your button. That's all. Could you please just poke one switch instead of running it all over? Okay. Why don't you take it? Representative Ronan, you know you're going to jam the machine, now. He wants to take it now. Thank you. May I please have your attention? Special order of business. Regional Transportation Authority. Now, if you'll listen we'll get done with it quicker. There will be a Roll Call on this Bill so if you'll just relax. Special order of business, Regional Transportation Authority, Senate Bill 256. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 256, a Bill for an Act in relationship to certain transportation agencies, Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Davis."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would request leave of 154  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 the House to take 256 back to Second Reading for purposes of an Amendment."

"Relax. Representative Levin, I don't want you to get ill. If you will relax, Sir, we will listen to everybody. Yes, Cullerton, that's an excellent mimic of Representative Levin. Now, listen, you will have an opportunity to speak. There will be a Roll Call. It takes 89 votes to return this to the Order of Second Reading. Representative Davis has moved. Return this Bill to Second Reading. On that point, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan."

"Mr... Mr. Speaker, point number one, I heard a request for leave to take this Bill back to the Order of Second Reading. I wish to object to that request for leave and my understanding of the rules is that that will now require 89 votes in order to be taken back to the Order of Second Reading and I hereby request a Roll Call vote on that Motion."

"It requires 89 votes, Sir, and there will be a Roll Call."

"Secondly, Mr. Speaker, I am told that when we finished work earlier in the day you were on a special order of business labeled EPA and that you did not finish that special order."

"Representative Madigan.. the Gentleman from Macon, Representative John Dunn." Dunn, John: "Mr. Speaker, there are Amendments being distributed and I would make an inquiry of the Chair as to whether there are, in fact, 177 copies available and distributed on the floor of this House of Amendment #27 to Senate Bill 256."

"That Motion will be in order at the time that the Amendments are offered if any." 155  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Dunn, John: "Alright, you will recognize me for that purpose?"

"Yes, Sir. Representative McClain."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with all due respect whether I voted for the Motion to extend the deadline or not those people that did vote for the extension of the deadline were led to believe that that was it for the night and that they would be released and the matter would be adjourned. We'd come back tomorrow at a reasonable hour and handle things reasonably then. Secondly, I suggest that you're now violating a subject matter where you're taking Bills away from the environmental special call. Now to go to something else to take care of some political purposes for the Governor so that he's in a better bargaining position with the Mayor. In the meantime the rest of us are led to believe constantly from the Chair one thing or the other and you're breaking... your.. not your word but the Chair's word."

"Representative. Representative O'Brien."

"Am I on? Thank you. Well, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I'd like to start out by saying it was a very cute trick. Very cute. We watched people run down the middle aisle with boxes of Amendments and here's an Amendment to 256 that appears to me it is still warm. It is still warm. It appears to me to be no less than 94 pages. And, of course, we also have Amendment 28 to follow. Mr. Speaker, I think that we ought to ask an inquiry of the Chair at this point. My inquiry is simple, Mr. Speaker, is the machine working or is the machine not working? May I have.. I'm not finished, Mr. Speaker. May I have an answer to that question?"

"Yes, Sir."

"Right now as at this point, is the machine working?"

"No." 156  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"What's wrong with it, Mr. Speaker?"

"You'll have to come up here and talk to the electrician. There are two Gentlemen up here."

"Why can't we have a little expert get on the microphone and give us a one minute dissertation, Mr. Speaker?"

"Representative O'Brien, you may come down and talk to the two electricians."

"Well, I think all the Members would like to know as to whether or not the machine is working."

"Representative Deuster."

"Mr. Speaker, I rise just to make an inquiry. How many RTA Bills are on the Calendar? I have a specific reference. There's Senate Bill 215. There's Senate Bill 256 and I don't know what else and I was wondering if you were calling them in reverse, chronological order, or what order."

"Senate Bill 215, Representative Deuster, amends the Civil Practice Act as you well know, Sir."

"Well, it relates to the RTA. I see. Even though it relates to the RTA ..."

"It amends the Civil Practice Act, Sir."

"Fine, thank you for that explanation."

"You're welcome, Sir. Representative Levin."

"Mr. Speaker, having voted on the prevailing side, on the last Motion..."

"You are not recognized for that purpose, Sir. Representative Greiman."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, do we have just one Bill on this order? Is that what we have?"

"That is correct."

"Well, firstly I would dispute your right, Sir, to move to an order of business when there is a single, on a subject matter, where there is a single Bill. I just think 157  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 the concept is, Mr. Speaker, that you are.. you moved to a subject matter to take up a series of Bills. Otherwise, you could frustrate the intent, the clear intent of the rules to move about the Calendar. That is a point of order. On a point of personal privilege, I must tell you the Majority Leader spoke on this floor a half hour ago. He said in response to increase, 'I have no agenda that I know of. I don't know anything at all.'"

"Representative Greiman, are you concluded, Sir?"

"No, I'm not. I'm still going but I.."

"Continue on, Sir."

"He'll give it to you. In any event, in any event, Mr. Speaker, the Majority Leader told us that. He told us that in very in sort of an ambiguous language. Now, he has more responsibility than just doing the Adjournment Resolutions around this place. He's fairly responsible. I bet they even ask him. While he was giving us this fairy tale the Speaker was in the Chair. The real Speaker was in the Chair. Now, don't you folks talk? Didn't you know we going to go a special order of business? But I do want a ruling, Sir, on my point of order. On a subject matter. As far as subject matter, I'd like to have an answer, Mr. Speaker."

"Okay, Representative Greiman, we will satisfy your request by as follows. Now, if you will listen carefully you will follow us. Very carefully. Are you ready. Okay. Take the Bill out of the record. Yes, Sir, it is. Now, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, priority of call, first Bill, Senate Bill 256. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 256, a Bill for an Act in relationship to certain transportation agencies, Third Reading of the 158  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Bill."

"Representative Davis."

"I was afraid, Mr. Speaker, we'd never get the priority of call and now that we're there I'd like leave of the House to return 256 to Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment."

"The Gentleman's asked leave of the House to return Senate Bill 256 to return to the Order of Second Reading. On that Motion, on that Motion there will be a Roll Call, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. On the Motion for leave to return it to the Order of Second Reading. The Minority Leader, Representative Madigan. And you will all, of course, remember that the TV lights are on."

"Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, question of the Clerk. What was the last Bill considered on the priority of call. The purpose of my question is to demonstrate that you are operating in violation of the rules when you have called this Bill because you left off with a different Bill. Mr. Speaker, the last Bill was Senate Bill 788 on the priority of call so that the next Bill to be called would be Senate Bill 909."

"Senate Bill 788 was the next Bill to call going down the regular Calendar."

"Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, did the Gentleman mean by regular Calendar the priority of call? Our information is that the last time we were on the priority of call that the last Bill would be called on the priority of call was Senate Bill 788 and, therefore, the next Bill to be called would be Senate Bill 909. I'm not making reference to the regular Calendar. I'm making reference to the priority of call and you called Senate Bill 256 as the first Bill on the 159  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 priority of call. My point is that the rules provide that when the priority of call is used the rules require that you return to the next Bill on the priority of call after the one that was last called."

"Representative Davis."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I believe the Minority Leader's recollection is somewhat foggy at this moment. During this entire day we never were on priority order of call. We were on special orders of business on the regular Calendar."

"Representative Vinson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Beyond that the Minority Leader as hard as he's worked his Session appears to have misread the rules. Rule 37A3 clearly gives the Chair the authority in going on any order of business to call Bills or Resolutions in the chronological daily order in which they were recorded to the Calendar. The priority of call lists as the first Bill in terms of chronological order Senate Bill 256. Therefore, according to the rules, in strict construction of the rules the Chair has the authority to go to priority of call, Senate Bill 256."

"We are on priority of call, Senate Bill 256. On the Motion, leave to return it to Second Reading takes 89 votes. There will be an Oral Verified Roll Call. It's the only way we can proceed. On that Motion, Mr. Clerk, call the Roll. This is on the Motion to return to the Order of Second Reading take 89 votes. Call the Roll, Mr. Clerk."

"Abramson. Abramson passes. Ackerman. Ackerman votes 'aye'. Alexander. Alexander votes 'no'. Alstat. Alstat votes 'aye'. Balanoff. Balanoff votes 'no'. Barkhausen. Barkhausen votes 'aye'. Barnes. Barnes votes 'aye'. Barr. Barr votes 'aye'. Bartulis. Bartulis 160  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 passes. Beatty. Beatty votes 'no'. Bell. Bell passes. Bianco. Bianco passes. Birkinbine. Birkinbine votes 'aye'. Bluthardt. Bluthardt passes. Boucek. Boucek passes. Bower. Bower votes 'aye'. Bowman. Bowman votes 'no'. Bradley. Bradley passes. Braun. Braun votes 'no'. Breslin. Breslin passes. Brummer. Brummer passes. Bullock. Bullock passes. Capparelli. Capparelli votes 'no'. Carey. Carey votes 'no'. Catania. Catania votes 'no'. Chapman. Chapman votes 'no'. Christensen. Christensen passes. Collins. Collins passes. Conti. Conti votes 'aye'. Cullerton. Cullerton votes 'no'. Currie. Currie votes 'no'. Daniels. Daniels votes 'aye'. Darrow. Darrow passes. Davis."

"Representative Davis."

"Well, in explaining my vote, Mr. Speaker, I encourage 'aye' votes on the Motion. It's the only way that we're going to get this Bill back for the purposes of Amendment 27 which is the one everybody is trying to digest at this point. Analysis' are being passed out. I recommend that you read them because it's a disconnect Amendment. It is Senate Bill 125 improved. There will be no taxes in it. There is nothing in it but a simple disconnect provision. All those who voted for House Bill 829 and Senate Bill 125, if you liked those you're going to love this one. I recommend an 'aye' vote and I vote 'aye'."

Clerk Leone: "Davis votes 'aye'. Deuchler. Deuchler votes 'aye'. Deuster. Deuster passes. DiPrima. DiPrima votes 'no'. Domico. Domico passes. Donovan. Donovan passes. Doyle. Doyle votes 'no'. Jack Dunn. Jack Dunn votes 'aye'. John Dunn. John Dunn votes 'no'. Ralph Dunn. Ralph Dunn votes 'aye'. Ebbesen. Ebbesen passes. Epton. Epton votes 'no'. Ewell. Ewell passes. Ewing. Ewing votes 'aye'. Farley. Farley votes 'no'. Fawell. Fawell 161  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 votes 'aye'. Findley. Findley votes 'aye'. Flinn. Flinn passes. Virginia Frederick. Virginia Frederick votes 'aye'. Dwight Friedrich. Dwight Friedrich votes 'aye'. Garmisa passes. Getty. Getty passes. Giglio. Giglio passes. Giorgi. Giorgi votes 'no'. Greiman. Greiman votes 'no'. Griffin. Griffin votes 'aye'. Grossi. Grossi votes 'aye'. Hallock. Hallock votes 'aye'. Hallstrom. Hallstrom votes 'aye'. Hanahan passes. Hannig."

"Representative Hannig."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. To briefly explain my vote I have had a Bill on Third Reading which has two, agreed to technical Amendments. I've been tried to be patient with the leadership but they have not brought my Bill back and I certainly don't thing we should bring anybody else's back under those circumstances. I vote 'no'."

"Hannig 'no'. Hastert. Hastert votes 'aye'. Henry. Henry passes. Hoffman. Hoffman votes 'aye'. Hoxsey. Hoxsey passes. Hudson. Hudson passes. Huff. Huff votes 'no'. Would you please press the Gentleman's button? Hudson votes 'aye'. Huskey. Huskey votes 'aye'. Jackson. Jackson votes 'no'. Jaffe. Jaffe votes 'no'. Johnson. Johnson passes. Jones. Jones votes 'no'. Kane. Kane votes 'no'. Karpiel. Karpiel votes 'aye'. Katz."

"Representative Katz."

"I wanted to explain my vote, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I really don't know why the House is being run with so much intrigue, Mr. Speaker. I don't really understand what goes on around here. I don't understand why the Gentleman cannot give notice to the Members of what they're going to do. I don't know why the Majority Leader gets up and says he doesn't know any 162  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 agenda. He doesn't have any idea and then no sooner is the vote recorded then the boys are trotting out with the Amendments. Now, Mr. Speaker, that really is a little ridiculous. I don't know why the leadership would want to stand before the Members of the House and present themselves in that kind of light. I don't like to have a 94 page Amendment put on my desk. We were in another order of business. That order of business had not been concluded. Is there any reason that that order of business could not have been concluded and one hour from now we could not have taken this matter up. Why the Amendments could not have been placed on our desks perhaps. We sat in our office two hours while the machines were being broken. Why did not.. why were not the Amendments distributed or if they were not completed why were summaries of what was proposed not placed on our desk? I really object, Mr. Speaker, to this way that the House is being run I don't think it's fair to the Members or to the public. And I vote 'no' on this Motion. I would like to see the House run better, Mr. Speaker."

"Representative Katz, in answer the best we can to your question, the Mayor of Chicago and the Governor of Illinois have been unable to reach an agreement on the Regional Transportation Authority. Amendment #27 which has been passed out to you.. that has been passed out to you is a disconnect Amendment. That's what it is, Sir. How do you vote, Sir? Are you done explaining your vote? Representative Katz."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, if it's going to be a debate between me and you, Mr. Speaker, I'm entitled to rejoin. I don't see that your answer has anything to do with it. So they didn't reach agreement. So, can you distribute your Amendment and give us an hour to look at your Amendment 163  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 before you act? Does the Majority Leader have to say to this House he doesn't know what the agenda is and no sooner is the Roll Call recorded that everyone is trotting out with the Amendments? You're not responding, Mr. Speaker. And if you were a speaker and I was doing that you would rule me out of order, Mr. Speaker, as not being responsive to the issue before the House."

"How do you vote, Sir?"

"Katz votes 'no'. Keane. Keane votes 'no'. Jim Kelley. Jim Kelley votes 'aye'."

"Representative Collins."

"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to vote 'aye'."

"Collins, 'aye'. Representative Hoxsey. Hoxsey, 'aye'. Proceed, Sir."

"Kelly. Dick Kelly passes. Klemm. Klemm votes 'aye'. Kociolko. Kociolko votes 'aye'. Koehler. Koehler votes 'aye'. Kornowicz. Kornowicz votes 'no'. Kosinski. Kosinski votes 'no'. Krska. Krska votes 'no'. Kucharski. Kucharski passes. Kulas. Kulas votes 'no'. Kustra. Kustra votes 'aye'. Laurino. Laurino passes. Lechowicz."

"Representative Lechowicz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is really a sad commentary in reference to how this House is being run not only this evening but in the previous days as well. I think for this reason by a bare majority to rule the extension and time was granted but I think that before an extension of time should have been granted there should be some sort of an agreement between the entire membership of the priority of call. Now, we're going to be asking what Bills are going to be heard and who's going to be receiving a fair opportunity. To come in with Senate Bill 256 after that brief extension of time has been granted, at this time is really a cheap shot. This thing should be solemnly 164  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 rejected as far as the Gentleman's request to bring this Bill back to Second Reading because in my personal opinion it should have never happened at this time. Especially, Harold Katz is absolutely correct. When you're having an Amendment of this type of nature and detail this membership should have some time to evaluate it and make a judgment. I proudly vote 'no'."

"Lechowicz votes 'no'. Leinenweber. Leinenweber passes. Leon. Leon votes 'no'. Leverenz. Leverenz passes. Levin."

"Representative Levin."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I...I can wait. Could I have some order, Mr. Speaker?"

"Will you please listen to the Gentleman?"

"I voted to support before the Motion to extend the deadline because we had a lot of Bills that we wanted to deal with. I voted for that in good faith. The issue of the RTA to me is the most important issue we're dealing with and I've tried to keep up with the issue. I've spoken a lot on the issue. Tried to provide some leadership released on this side of the aisle. It seems to me that it is most inappropriate and an insult to all of the Members to thrust at us a 97 page Amendment and say vote on it sight unseen. Irrespective of what people's views are in this issue, and people do have different views, we're going to want to know what we're voting on. Not only on every other issue but particularly on this issue. Accordingly, I'm very pleased to vote 'no'."

"Levin votes 'no'. Macdonald. Macdonald votes 'aye'. Madigan. Madigan votes 'no'."

"Representative Boucek."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will you record me as voting 'aye'?" 165  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Boucek, 'aye'. Proceed, Mr. Clerk."

"Push your button, Representative. Margalus is recorded as absent. Martire. Martire passes. Matijevich. Matijevich votes 'no'. Mautino."

"Representative Mautino, to explain his vote."

"To this interesting scenario the floodgates are now open, the vote and the cast was before us approximately fifteen minutes ago and I vote 'aye'."

"Mautino votes 'aye'. Mays. Mays votes 'aye'. McAuliffe. McAuliffe votes 'aye'. McBroom. McBroom votes 'aye'. McClain."

"Representative McClain."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I mean this with all the respect that I can to the Chair. Mr. Speaker, and I don't mean to make this too personal, but nine years ago in June of '72 my dad die because of the pressure on the floor and the pressure of politics surrounding the election of the Chairman of the Democratic Party at our national convention. My dad felt very deeply about how he cast votes on those things and he promised Eugenia Chapman that he would vote for ERA so he stayed in the nurse's station to vote. Now there are men and women on this floor that have similar chest pains, have gone to the hospital, have left early that are feeling the pressure of the job and some of them voted for the Motion to extend the deadline until midnight Saturday it was with the belief that it was because the Board did not work. And because the Board did not work we would adjourn, start at a reasonable hour tomorrow and come back. Now, you're having them vote on a very emotional Amendment. There are people here that are sick and ill and are feeling the pressure and for the Speaker of the House, a Constitutional elected office to violate that confidence to the membership only to 166  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 do things politically harms people physically I think is a gross injustice to that Chair and I vote 'no'. But not just because of the Amendment and not just because of the Motion but because I feel deeply there people on this floor that are feeling this job and for you and the Chair and the Speaker to take violation of their integrity like that I think is grossly wrong."

"McClain votes 'no'. McCormick. McCormick votes 'aye'. McGrew. McGrew passes. McMaster. McMaster passes. McPike. McPike votes 'no'. Roland Meyer. Roland Meyer passes. Ted Meyer. Ted Meyer passes. Miller. Miller votes 'aye'. Mulcahey. Mulcahey votes 'aye'. Murphy. Murphy passes. Neff. Neff votes 'aye'. Nelson. Nelson votes 'aye'. Oblinger. Oblinger votes 'aye'. O'Brien."

"Representative O'Brien."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members. I rise to explain my vote which will be 'no' and I would like to reiterate some of the comments of my fellow Legislators in relation to the manner in which this House is transpiring. Representative McClain indicated that there were some people who didn't feel well. Well, I can tell you the reason they don't feel well is because the pressure of the uncertainty in which this House has been run over the past few, few months. Now, just because a couple of people aren't talking doesn't mean that you and I have to sit down and take a 90 page Amendment and synthesize it within about an hour. This, Mr. Speaker, is not in the best interest of this House and I wonder whether or not the Chair in this House wants to sincerely play a role in solving the transportation crisis that we have. The last time we had transportation Bills that were argued in depth before this Body they were tabled by the Chair rather abruptly. And to 167  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 put this before the Members whether they be Republican or Democrat, suburban or Chicago, a 90 page Amendment. And to ask us to go through this and decide just exactly what is there, Mr. Speaker, is unfair. And I think the Chair is showing some insincerity in relation to the transportation crisis."

"How do you vote, Representative O'Brien, after your dialogue. 'No'."

"O'Brien, 'no'. O'Connell. O'Connell votes 'no'. Ozella. Ozella votes 'no'. Pechous."

"Representative Pechous."

"Mr. Speaker and colleagues, earlier I stated that the public's business ought not to be confronted with a deadline and I'm telling you now as I have attempted to read through 27 different Amendments each totaling hundreds of pages that the public's business needs a bit of a rest and needs a thorough digestion of what's contained herein. And I'm voting 'no' for that reason."

"Pechous votes 'no'. Peters."

"Representative Peters."

"Mr. Speaker, I sympathize with the comments made by my good friend from Quincy. I've been in the hospital four times in the last five and a half years but not in the last year and a half. Four of those times were before the last year and a half but I feel some bit of pressure coming on. I don't know that that pressure and chest pain is coming from the issues before us but rather from the arguments made by those same four or five individuals who know everything from A to Z. The Betty Crocker's of the Legislature who got the right recipe and prescription for something. I would end up suggesting, Mr. Speaker, that some consideration be given between the Speaker and the Minority Leader for a special order of business to begin 168  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 immediately after we adjourn and anyone who wants to talk about anything and anyone who wants to listen about anything can stay here for two or three hours after we adjourn and they can all put it in a record. And that could be printed and distributed and put out through the libraries of the entire country if necessary because those comments are extremely crucial. I vote 'aye'."

"Peters votes 'aye'. Piel. Piel votes 'aye'. Pierce. Pierce passes. Polk. Polk votes 'aye'. Pouncey. Pouncey votes 'no'. Preston. Preston votes 'no'. Pullen. Pullen votes 'aye'. Rea. Rea votes 'no'. Redmond is recorded as absent. Reed. Reed votes 'aye'. Reilly. Reilly votes 'aye'. Rhem. Rhem votes 'no'. Richmond."

"Representative Richmond."

"Mr. Speaker, thank you. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, as I understand it if I voted 'yes' on this issue that would put in position to make a decision in a few minutes on a 94 page Amendment which I certainly don't look forward to. And I hope none of us have any chest pain but I am getting the pain in other positions. I vote 'no'."

"Richmond votes 'no'. Rigney. Rigney votes 'aye'. Robbins. Robbins passes. Ronan. Ronan votes 'no'. Ropp. Ropp votes 'aye'. Saltsman. Saltsman votes 'no'. Sandquist. Sandquist votes 'no'. Satterthwaite. Satterthwaite votes 'no'. Schneider. Schneider votes 'no'. Schraeder. Schraeder votes 'no'. Schuneman. Schuneman votes 'aye'. Slape. Slape votes 'no'. Irv Smith. Irv Smith votes 'aye'. Margaret Smith. Margaret Smith votes 'no'. Stanley. Stanley votes 'aye'. Stearney. Stearney votes 'no'. Steczo. Steczo votes 'no'. E.G. Steele. E.G. Steele votes 'aye'. Stewart. Stewart votes 'no'. C.M. Stiehl. C.M. Stiehl votes 'aye'. Stuffle. Stuffle votes 'no'. Swanstrom. Swanstrom votes 169  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 'aye'. Tate. Tate passes. Telcser. Telcser votes 'aye'. Terzich. Terzich votes 'no'."

"Representative Terzich."

"Mr. Speaker, yes, my eyes are a little tired and I was wondering, do you think it would be out of place if we asked the Clerk to read the Amendment? Tony, would you kindly read the Amendment so we could understand it?"

"Terzich votes 'no'. Topinka. Topinka votes 'aye'. Tuerk. Tuerk votes 'aye'. Turner. Turner votes 'no'. Van Duyne. Push your button, Representative. Van Duyne votes 'aye'. Vinson. Vinson."

"Representative Vinson."

"Passes. Vitek. Vitek votes 'no'. Watson. Watson votes 'aye'. White. White votes 'no'. Wikoff. Wikoff votes 'aye'. Winchester."

"Representative Winchester."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In explaining my vote, I want to remind my downstate colleagues that this is the Bill that all of our constituents have been talking about. They don't want us to vote for subsidies. For mass transit, they want us to vote for legislation but not for subsidies. There is no tax increases in this Bill. The Sponsor said that if there is any tax increases to provide subsidies to the RTA then he's going to table the Bill. And I remind my downstate colleagues, particularly the ones in southern Illinois that this going to be a hard issue to explain back home."

"Winchester votes 'aye'. J.J. Wolf. J.J. Wolf votes 'aye'. Sam Wolf. Sam Wolf votes 'no'. Woodyard. Woodyard votes 'aye'. Younge. Younge votes 'no'. Yourell."

"Representative Yourell."

"Well, you know I warned all of you before what would 170  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 happen when you voted to suspend the deadline for the rules. This Amendment was delivered to the House floor, this hot little Amendment was delivered to the House floor at 8:35 tonight and the Motion was called at 8:50. At 9:00 the Roll Call started. Now there are a lot of 'ayes' and a lot of 'nos' up there and I don't know how to vote except I think the only responsible vote is to vote 'present' because I don't think anybody can vote intelligently on this issue because they haven't read the Amendment. Perhaps some of the Republicans have read it and they've had access to the Amendment before we've had access to it on this side. But I'm going to get the transcript of these proceedings and I know that I'll do well in my district when I take it back and explain why I'm voting 'present' because I just haven't had time in the last twenty minutes to read a 94 page Amendment. I vote 'aye'. I mean 'present'."

"Yourell votes 'present'. Zito. Zito passes. Zwick. Zwick votes 'aye'. Mr. Speaker."

"Alright, Representative Bell."

"Mr. Speaker, I may not be Betty Crocker but I do think that the only prescription we have right now is to listen to the Amendment before us and I vote 'aye'."

"Bell votes 'aye'."

"Representative Domico. Representative Domico, 'no'. Would you hit your switch, Sir? Okay. Representative O'Connell."

"Would you change my 'no' to an 'aye'?"

"Alright, Representative O'Connell, you wish to change from 'no' to 'aye'. Would you push your switch, Sir? Okay. Representative Vinson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. What the proposed Amendment would do is disconnect 171  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 the CTA from the transit system. It's an affirmation of the will of this chamber that state taxes not be raised. If you reject this Amendment and this Roll Call vote what you are saying when you vote 'no' is you want to raise statewide taxes. Now, the Governor has offered $100,000,000 to the city. I don't know if that was right or wrong."

"Excuse me, Representative Vinson. Excuse me. Hold it. Okay. Are you done now? Representative Vinson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. If you reject this vote right here you're asking for higher taxes throughout the State of Illinois. You're asking people to siphon money off from downstate and the suburbs to subsidize the CTA. The will of this chamber is that that not be done. But what you are doing is you are rejecting disconnect. You are ratifying the Mayor when she says $100,000,000 is not enough. I urge you to reject that position because if we do not disconnect the only result can be higher taxes. Money from downstate to Chicago. We know that's not right. We know that's what the people do not want and I urge you to vote 'aye'."

"Vinson votes 'aye'"

"Alright, Vinson 'aye'. Now, Representative Satterthwaite. Yes, Ma'am."

"Mr. Speaker, time and time again whoever is presiding fails to turn off the TV light when we start a Roll Call. The rules of the House call for a provision that there should be no filming during the Roll Call."

"Representative Satterthwaite, excuse me. The light is off."

"The light is on, Sir."

"I can understand why you'd want it off. Representative Johnson." 172  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"How am I recorded, Mr. Speaker?"

"How is Representative Johnson recorded?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker, in explaining my vote, if I had... I'm restraining myself to the Motion. If I were voting the way that my esteemed from my district were voting on this I wouldn't want the TV light on either. I vote 'yes' for downstate Illinois."

"Johnson votes 'aye'."

"Alright, Representative Tate."

"I would like to be recorded as voting 'yes', please."

"Tate, 'aye'. Representative Robbins. Robbins, 'aye'. Okay, Representative Ebbesen."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I had Representative Vinson explain my vote and everybody was cheering on the other side. And it must have been because he was voting 'aye' so I think I should vote 'aye' also."

"Alright, now, Representative Ted Meyer."

"Ebbesen votes 'aye'." Meyer, Ted: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Pursuant to the Constitution to the State of Illinois the rules of this House and Robert's Rules of Order I would hereby request and demand the Clerk read this Senate Bill 256 in its entirety on Third Reading."

"Representative Meyer, how do you vote, Sir?" Meyer, Ted: "And the Amendment and I vote 'aye'."

"Alright, Ted Meyer, 'aye'. Now, Representative Bartulis."

"Mr. Speaker, record me as 'aye', please."

"Bartulis, 'aye'."

"Alright, Representative Roland Meyer. 'aye'. Representative McMaster."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We continue to sink deeper 173  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 and deeper into the morass of the political swamp of Springfield. Until we get some sense into this place we are going to continue to sink deeper and deeper. Quite frankly, I am concerned about downstate money going to the transit system in the metropolitan area. It concerns me a great deal. I do think this, that we must have some kind of a transit system in that metropolitan area. I think it's a necessity of life. To think you can put the people to work in the City of Chicago into that town by automobiles and bicycles or on foot or whatever or horseback it's impossible. You've got to have a transit system. Some way it has to operate. I also think this, we have got to have something in the way of a highway program in downstate Illinois. And I hear a lot of the people who are wanting to kill the RTA, the CTA and all the ATA's or BTA's or ETA's or whatever. That they're not going to vote for a highway system. And until I hear something from that group of people that they are willing to help me to fund the highways that they drive on to get to this town. To go through the histrionics that we go through in this Illinois General Assembly I'm not going to vote anyway. I'm going to continue to pass. And I want some guarantees we're going to have some support from the suburbs and the collar counties for highways before I'm going to give them any support. And I mean that."

"Alright, McMaster passes. Alright, Representative Ewell."

"Mr. Speaker, in the interest of gravity I would like to incorporate speech 137, 1980 edition and by reference and I vote 'no'."

"Representative Leverenz."

"Record me 'aye'."

"Leverenz, 'aye'. Representative Braun." 174  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On a point of order, the eyes of the State of Illinois are upon us this evening as we address an emotional issue. And for the Members of this House on both sides of the aisle to conduct themselves in a manner which denies our professionalism I think is an embarrassment to us and demeans our office and what we're here for. There should be no reason why we should resort to screaming and yelling and hollering and acting and making generally a spectacle of ourselves when we have something of this kind of moment in front of us. And I'm not standing up suggesting decorum just for a reason but it seems to me that it makes us look like pure fools before the people of this state. We've already been ridiculed because of the demonstrations and the goings on in this Session. We.. I'd suspect in part that this kind of conduct resulted in the past to the cut back Amendment which I opposed at the time on the grounds that we needed to preserve the vitality of the House. Vitality, however, does not mean histrionics and does not mean this kind of conduct. Then, Mr. Speaker, answer my colleagues. I really would urge that we conduct ourselves in a professional manner for the rest of this Session."

"Your point is well taken, Ma'am. Record the speaker as 'aye'. Okay, Representative Donovan. Record Representative Donovan as 'aye'. Would you push your switch, Sir? Alright, Representative Laurino. Record Representative Laurino as 'no'. Representative Getty."

"'No'."

"Record Representative Getty as 'no'. Representative Robbins, your light is on, Sir. Do you want to turn it off? Alright, Representative Robbins."

"I don't know about some of you people but it doesn't really when it comes down to it make a whole lot of 175  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 difference to the people in my district whether the RTA runs or not. It's sad to say but they.. it don't effect them like it does some of you but I was taught from the time I started in business for myself when I was sixteen years old to be responsible. And I consider trying to work out a solution to where we can keep the trains running for the people in Chicago something that is reasonable. We have worked many long hours on the Republican side of the aisle to try to come up with some kind of a package. Most of them I haven't approved of. Most of them you haven't approved of. I notice your leadership still don't approve of this one. Now, what I would like to see if you can't come up with something that ... and work on it with us put a package of your own up and maybe we can help put a vote on it for you."

"Representative Pechous. Pechous."

"Please change me to green."

"Change Representative Pechous from 'no' to 'aye'. Representative Darrow."

"Change your switch, Representative Pechous."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are a number of Representatives..."

"Excuse me. Representative Pechous, could you push your switch green? Thank you, Sir. Representative Darrow."

"There are a number of individuals on this side of the aisle who are voting green and who are in a geographic location where it's politically smart for them to be voting green. It means a great deal to them. That's why they're, if you want to say, bolting the Democratic Party that's what they're doing. This issue and this vote is not that significant in my area. It is significant but not this particular issue. I don't believe we have a transportation 176  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 program in this Amendment that would be acceptable to the majority of the people in my district. I'm not going to leave the Party. I'm going to vote 'no' so that some of the people on this side of the aisle can continue to vote green. Thank you."

"Representative Dwight Friedrich, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?" Friedrich, Dwight: "To explain my vote, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed, Sir."

"We've been hearing around here since February that there's a crisis in mass transportation in the northeastern part of our state. And I think we all realize that it's important to all of us that it run. Facetiously some of us have said that we're concerned about mass transit in Memphis because we're just as close to Memphis as we are to Chicago but actually, we realize that this is a part of the state. Now, I think anyone knows that if this Motion passes these Amendments will be debated. They may or may not be adopted. But certainly, Representative Davis is in control of this Bill and he doesn't have to move it. If it moves over to the Senate obviously, they will consider it and it could be a vehicle to solve the whole transportation problem. But as long as we're not going to do anything on mass transit there's no solution. So I would suggest to those of you who are concerned that this could be the vehicle to solve the problem and you better consider that because it's two minutes until midnight. And I think that if you want any vehicle and want to really seriously consider mass transportation you better work to get this Bill out so you'll have something to work with."

"Representative Cissy Stiehl, for what purpose do you arise, Ma'am? Representative Bianco."

"Mr. Speaker, in the interest of doing something, I vote 177  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 'aye'."

"Representative Bianco, 'aye'. Representative Cissy Stiehl."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I'd just like to remind the downstate Members that we have been here through this entire Session working with the collar county Legislators, the suburban Legislators and the Chicago Legislators trying to arrive at some type of an agreement so that we could keep mass transit running in the City of Chicago. So that we could keep the commuter rails running and so that we could keep the suburban buslines running and we also were working so that we could have a viable road system and a strong road program in downstate Illinois. And now here we are at the very end. This is our last vehicle and it is important that we are allowed to discuss this Amendment. It is important that we have this Bill back on Second. And I would ask that downstate Democrats in the interest of downstate Illinois, of their own communities and of their legislative districts to vote 'aye' on this Motion."

"Representative Donovan."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. Would you change my vote to 'present'?"

"Alright, Representative Donovan will be recorded as 'present'. Representative Neff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think any of us if we realize what we're doing here we could cannot help but vote for this piece of legislation. Particularly, anyone that lives in the downstate regardless of politics. This is something and the only vehicle we have to do something in the last few days and I would hope that we would get our 89 votes on there. And the fact is I'm quite surprised that there isn't more downstate people, particularly on the Democrat 178  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 side that aren't voting for this. And voting what the people wish."

"Representative Kane."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I hear an awful lot about what the downstate people should be doing and what the downstate Democrats should be doing in particular and that this is the last vehicle. It's the only vehicle and we ought to all get on board. You know that's a replay of what we were given a year and a half ago. We had the Thompson-Byrne Plan at that time and it came to us at the last minute that the same time, about the same time the Amendment came down the aisle just as it did tonight and we were told this is the only vehicle and this is great and it's going to be a four year program. We never got to read that one either. We were told, that's it. You got to vote for it. It's the only vehicle in town. It's a four year program. Know what happened? We were sold a Bill of goods. The RTA is going to pot. Our highways are going to pot so we're told by the Department of Transportation and the only vehicle that we were sold last time was a tin lizzy. But I would suggest that this is a tin lizzy, too and if we get on board we're going to end up in the same place. In the dump and so I think all of those arguments, we've heard them before and we ought to reject them. We didn't... we made the mistake last time and accepted them. Well, this time I think we ought to reject them and I vote 'no'."

"Representative Oblinger."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I was interested in the last speaker talking about what the downstate Representatives ought to do. I want the Representative to look over at the Republican side. The Republicans from Chicago are voting their people's interest 179  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 and that is something that they are supposed to be doing and I would think the downstate people on the other side would have that same concern."

"Representative Abramson."

"Mr. Speaker, how am I recorded?"

"The Gentleman is not recorded as voting."

"Vote me 'no'."

"Abramson, 'no'. Representative Karpiel."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I realize that perhaps some of the people on the other side of the aisle don't like the way the proceeding have gone this evening. And I can't, perhaps, sometimes I don't disagree with them. However, this is just a very vital issue, and it's a very vital issue to the suburban area. I can't really believe, when I see up there that there are, suburban Representatives on the other side of the aisle who are either not voting or voting 'no', on this issue. They know....they know very well what the people back home want. This Bill, if we ever get to it, is what they want. The problem is if they don't vote for this Motion, we won't get to the Bill, they know that and the people back home won't know that...I mean they won't know what the whole problem is, all they'll know is they didn't get a solution to the problem that they are very concerned about. I urge the suburban Democrats to vote 'aye', on this Motion, so we can perhaps get something...solution to this problem which is very important to their constituents back home, and they know that. They should be voting for their concerns and not the party line."

"Representative Ewing."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. In explaining my vote, I think all of us, particularly those in downstate, know how our people feel about this important 180  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 issue. I like what Representative McMaster said, when he said, we do have to have mass transportation. I couldn't agree more with that and yet, I know that we can't fund it under the current proposals which have been put forth. This gives us an opportunity to continue to address this serious problem. I certainly would hope there would be at least five more votes up there, so that we can consider this Bill tonight, and the Amendments, and move on, because the days are becoming very short, very short since we started with our special Committee on this problem back in, January and February. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, you better act tonight, you could end up being too late after the 30th, then try and find a solution when it takes 107 votes. You know you can't do it then. And I would encourage, I would encourage at least five more votes on this Motion."

"Representative Dick Kelly." Kelly, Dick: "Yes, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I've been holding off my vote for sometime and, I suppose I'm not going to make a gigantic impression on anybody because I'm going to vote 'present'. But I...but I've been searching my conscious very thoroughly to decide whether or not to support this proposal, because it looks like a proposal which would be one that I would be favorable to support. Some of the activities that occurred, as Representative Yourell, pointed out. Is getting an Amendment at a last minute with so many pages, now I've read this, I've reviewed it, I haven't heard anything from my side of the aisle as to what they think is inside of this proposal. Even at this point when I vote 'present', I'm still considering possibly voting for this measure, and it appears that we may be here for a little while, till some of the other Members who are absence have an 181  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 opportunity to come in and vote. So, I may change my mind, if you recall my, Republican colleagues, who are doing a good job of laughing, I was one of two Democrats that supported your RTA Bill when it passed over to the Senate. So, I've supported you when I, because as, Representative O'Connell, pointed out, it's extremely important that we do have mass transportation. We can't afford the system to totally stop and I'm just going to keep quiet."

"Representative Conti."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I can remember too well, just last year when I got the Byrne-Thompson Proposal, in the suburban area how we pleaded with some of our downstate colleagues and asked them to take that into consideration. I don't know what this Bill, or this Amendment has, it's got 94 pages in it, and I can understand why the freshmen are concerned in the procedures that have taken place here tonight. But the one that astounds me the most, is the fellow that says, he's here eighteen years, the fellow from Glencoe. Says, never in his life as he seen the abuse of this floor, as this Session. I remember, we debated a Bill for a half hour before we got the Amendment last year, and that was the omnibus Bill, it had eight hundred and forty pages. So I can't understand what everybody is so shock at the procedures here tonight, I'm still in doubt about my voting 'aye', for this Bill but I need this vehicle, because there's some questions I want answered. Contractual Services in municipality, if CTA opts out of the RTA. Are we going to be at the mercy of the CTA, if they come in for contractual services in suburban area. But I know we need a vehicle and this is the reason why I'm asking all my suburban colleagues to at least vote 'aye' on this Bill, so that we have a vehicle, so that we can work out something 182  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 and mass transportation is vital to the economy of the state."

"Representative Kociolko."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. In order to explain my vote on this issue..."

"Excuse me, Representative Kociolko. Representative Lechowicz, state your point, Sir."

"Mr. Speaker, I know everyone has an opportunity to explain their vote but please use the timer. We've been here for a few hours today, we may be until a few more hours. I want everybody to have their opportunity to explain their vote, so that the Republicans can get all their Membership here, we'll go through another verification, but please, use the timer."

"We're trying to give Representative Greiman, the hour that he wanted to read the Amendment. Representative Kociolko."

"For many months now, the Chicago media, the newspapers and the television have been demanding that this General Assembly exercise leadership on the subject that mass transportation....."

"Excuse me, Representative Kociolko, you have some screaming people on the other side. Once again, Representative Lechowicz, state your point, Sir."

"Please use the timer, Sir. It's in the rules, please use the timer."

"Representative Kociolko."

"For six months, Mr. Speaker, the media have been demanding that we exercise leadership. And so, is the political power structure of the City of Chicago, they've demanded that we show leadership and address the crisis in mass transportation, that we've heard about. Well, it's been transparent what they mean by addressing it, they made 183  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 a whopping tax increase. They mean business as usual for the CTA, and continued Chicago predominance over mass transportation. This truly addresses the crisis in mass transportation and I believe we should support it and vote for it, and vote 'aye'. Thank you, and that's with it..."

"Okay, now, Representative Jones."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just a point of order, I resent the fact that the Governor on the second floor, is using all the muscle he can to break arms of people like, Representative Deuster and a few other Republicans on that side of the aisle. But he didn't use any muscle at all, to get his gross receipt tax passed, that would benefit all the people of the State of Illinois. So, tell the Governor to quit twisting the arms of some of our good colleagues on the other side of the aisle."

"Representative Everett Steele." Steele, E.G.: "Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Explaining my vote, I think this is a good Motion, it's a Motion that's good for Chicago, it's a Motion that's good for downstate. It's good for Chicago because it gives control of the CTA, that they're wanting. It gives control that the Mayor has said, that they want. It gives control at many of the Members, say they want. And if we don't do this, this evening, then we're back to talking about a ten cent gas tax, we're back to talking about an oil tax, we're back to talking about a sales tax, we're back to talking about a liquor tax. And I can tell you that the people of Glen Carbon, don't want any of these taxes or Alton or Granite City, I can tell you, coming from downstate, the people of Christopher, Illinois, don't want it. The people of Effingham, don't want it. The people of Murphysboro, don't want it or Pocahontas or Charleston or Mt. Olive. So, I say, that now is the time to vote the interest of the people that you 184  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 represent. Vote for the districts that put you here, the people that elected you to be here, vote for their interests then vote for this Motion."

"Alright, Representative Rea, for what purpose do you rise, Sir.?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I have no difficulty whatsoever, voting 'no' on this tonight in terms of the proceedings that have taken place. And in terms of an Amendment that has been distributed, 94 pages, and I can tell you that being from, Christopher, Illinois, that the people from my district and I would also assume that the Gentleman from Harden County, that made the comment earlier about the downstaters, that they elected me to come here and to represent their interest and to know what I'm voting for. And in this instance, I do not know what's in this Amendment and I doubt if very many people on this House floor tonight knows what's here. Now, if you want to give us a chance to review it and then vote accordingly, okay, but to give it to us and not give us a chance to know what's here, no, I cannot vote for it and represent the people of my district and the people of the State of Illinois. I have voted for the disconnect, I have voted for other issues as it relates to this particular situation. And, so I have no problem, whatsoever, of voting 'no' here tonight. And I can certainly explain it to the people of, not only to my district but to the state."

"Representative Klemm."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know, you don't have to be a freshman Legislator to sit here and realize that the RTA, CTA, as we know it, is not working. There's not a soul in this room, on this floor, in the gallery or in the media's press box, that knows that it's doing a job. Every day 185  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 it's going deeper in debt and I think, certainly we have to have some Amendment, some consideration, to have on the floor of this House, that we can discuss. And this is one area that, I think, is at least a solution, and I vote 'yes' in order to have the full discussion of this floor that this Amendment deserves. And not to just say, 'no' so we let the game continue on and let the taxpayers and the RTA go deeper in debt and that's the reason I'm voting 'aye'."

"Representative Lechowicz."

"Mr. Speaker, I believe, you as an attorney know the rules or should know the rules as good or if not better than any Member of this House. And, Mr. Speaker, you in that Chair, are the person responsible to be fair and equitable to every Member in this House. Whether you're the presiding officer temporarily or the duly elected Speaker of this House. Mr. Speaker, for the fourth time I'm asking that you follow the rules of the House, you have...when the people get up to address the issue, they address it...to the Motion, they can give their political speeches back home, but in all fairness of the Membership who has been here for a number of hours, whether the machine was working or not, you are doing a disservice to every Member in this House by not using the timer, and making sure that the people address the issue as they should. Now, Mr. Speaker, I defer the rest of my time to Representative Pechous."

"Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, would you recognize, Mr. Pechous."

"Would you care to talk, Sir? I want to make sure you're given an opportunity. Representative Winchester."

"Mr. Speaker, on a point of personal privilege. My 186  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 county was used in debate. I want to...I want to say that, to all my downstate colleagues again, that our constituents for three months now, have been sending us a message that, they do not want us to vote for subsidy. We've known about this Bill for a long time, this Bill is nothing new, it's the same piece of legislation that's been floating around here for several weeks now. We've had an opportunity to review this Bill and if we don't support this Bill, we are sending a message to our constituents in downstate Illinois, that we support Mayor Byrne, in her hold out. We want to give but they want to give more money to mass transit in Chicago, and they better take a hard look at that, because they're going to have to answer to their constituents."

"Alright, Representative Pechous."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. For the good and sufficient reasons, as I previously explained, because I heard statements which clearly indicates to me, that there is a substantial feeling of hostility and anti Northeastern Illinois, I am changing by 'yes' vote to a 'no' vote and I ask you to respect that, and change me accordingly. Thank you."

"Representative Pechous, from 'aye' to 'no'. Representative Reed."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I'm a collar county Legislator, who on a daily basis, gets at least ten to fifteen letters that accuse me of being childish...."

"Excuse me, Representative Reed. I understand the Gentlemen in the TV gallery are filming for their services and their station, they are not filming the debate. Mr. Doorkeeper, they may go ahead and film, they are recording live but they are not recording the House. 187  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 So, Representative Reed..."

"I am consistently accused of being childish, irresponsible, petty, political and deceitful. After three months of work, we end up with this kind of a vote total, every time we try to address the problem of mass transit. I try to defend the position that I have taken and the work that's been spent by this House. And yet, there are seventy people in this House who continue to make us all look like fools."

"Representative Jack Dunn." Dunn, Jack: "Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I've heard all kinds of reasons why we should and why we should not vote for this Amendment this evening. There is one more reason why we should vote for it, there is some poor devil down in the basement, in the print shop, who printed fifteen thousand, nine hundred and thirty sheets for us. Imagine how he's going to feel when he goes home tonight if we don't pass this."

"Representative Deuster."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I did not rise to make light of this subject, and I rise with a great deal of constraint as I endeavor to explain my vote. I have for sometime, taken the position that there's nothing wrong with the RTA, and no reason to dismember, disconnect, destroy or abolish the RTA, if only they would do what we thought they were going to do when we established them. And that is, we gave them a subsidy, we gave them a sales tax in the region, we said, there's the subsidy, combine that with your fare box and run your system and live within your means. Balance your budget and if you have problems with rising cost, as motorist and others do, well then you can either increase your fares or you can reduce your service or you make some adjustment, or 188  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 do something. I've been as disturbed as every Member, I think even the Members from Chicago, over the obstinance and the refusal of the RTA and the arrogant, discussing behavior of the Chairman, Lewis Hill. And particularly, we have hoped that the...."

"Representative Lechowicz. For the fifth time, Sir."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, maybe for the twenty-fifth time. But they better start addressing themselves, to the Motion. And it's your job to make sure they do that. And please use the timer as well."

"Representative Deuster."

"I appreciate that and, I will try to stay to the Motion. My goal has been as a Legislator, to make sure that we finish this Session without any increase in taxes for the people of Illinois. And that we finish this Session, sending a clear message to the RTA and anyone else that wants to come here to get bailed out, that they ought to live within their means and solve their own problems. Now, I have been reluctant to support the procedural Motion here, because I....frankly, would just as soon that we didn't do anything and we went home and we communicated in every possible way to the RTA, that they ought to start doing what they should have done a long time ago. The reason I am inclined to support this procedural Motion, bring us back to Second Reading, so that we can consider this, is because I have seen the RTA Board behave in a way that discriminated against the suburban railroad. Now, the Mayor of Chicago has expressed her desire...."

"To the Motion, Representative Deuster."

"Okay, I will. This....if we go back and consider this Amendment, we will enable the Mayor of Chicago to do what she wants to do, and that is take care of the CTA, for 189  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 herself, and we'll have the commuter railroads running by themselves. I don't think that's good but, if that's what the leaders want to do, so be it, and I vote 'aye'."

"Deuster, 'aye'. Representative Bluthardt."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I've been listening for the last forty-five minutes, one Gentleman from Chicago keeps popping up, keeps objecting, keeps yelling about the timer. Let me tell you, those of us who've been here any length of time and been under the Leadership of the opposite party. That Gentleman, when he handled the podium was the most arrogant person, most dictatorial person who every handled the podium. He paid less attention to the rules or to the wishes of the Members of anyone I can recall, and that includes, Speaker Blair. Now, I have not used any name in debate, so I don't see where you...anyone has any matter of personal privilege. You know, I believe in mass transportation, I always have, I've supported the RTA when it was first created. I believe in a state subsidy for mass transportation and I think that if we're going to have any solution to the problem that was created by the RTA and the CTA and the Mayors of Chicago and the Chicago politicans, that we better get ahead and pass this Motion, so that we can consider the Amendments. And I vote 'aye', Mr. Speaker."

"Bluthardt, 'aye'. Representative Bluthardt, could you punch your button, Sir. Thank you. Representative McMaster."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"How do you vote, Sir?"

"If the troops will calm down, it has been brought to my attention that we're not voting on the issue, we are voting on whether we should debate the issue or not. In order to give the issue an opportunity to be debated, I 190  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 will vote 'aye'."

"Representative Koehler."

"Mr. Speaker, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, to explain my vote. I believe this to be a good vote for those of us who are from downstate, because it's a vote for no taxes. I would urge more green votes. Thank you."

"Representative Nelson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. What the Democratic Members of this House don't wish to admit, is that they missed their best chance to do some constructive work on the problem of mass transportation in the State of Illinois, back on, April2nd. On that day, the votes on the board were Republican votes and those were the votes for the very first Bill in the Thompson-Ryan package. Our Leader on the other side, talked about votes that he could put on at whim, but none of those were up on the board that day. Only Republican votes were there. I urge you to look at the board again tonight, Republican votes are there, and they are the ones indicating that they want to get work on this issue. A red vote is an ostrich vote, a vote that says, I could care less. I urge green votes."

"Representative Chapman."

"Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm a suburban Democrat and I agree with the previous speaker who had been listening to her constituents. Our suburbanites want the trains to run, they want the buses to run, they don't only want the trains and buses to run out in the suburbs, when they get off that train downtown, they want to be able to get on a CTA bus, to drive to North Michigan, where they work. And they don't understand why we haven't solved this problem. Now, like another speaker from the other side of the aisle, I haven't had a chance to read the 94 page, Amendment but I did have the opportunity to read the Republican analyses 191  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 prepared in advance, I presume, and the Republican analyses is very short and to the point and it's very clear that it does not solve the problem of your constituents and my constituents. Anyone who thinks that this Amendment, or this Bill, for the matter, solves the problem, does not understand the problem. Simply re-organizing does not solve the problem, money is what solves the problem and in no way, does this Amendment address that. My good friend on the other side of the rotunda, my colleague, doesn't even believe in public transportation, so certainly there's no reason to support this Bill or this Amendment or this Motion, that is if we want to solve the problem."

"Representative Ozella."

"Mr. Speaker, we've sat here now for the last half hour, listening to why the Democrats aren't putting any votes up on the board. I see a lot of green votes there that are Democrat votes. Now, it's my understanding that there are 91 votes sitting on the other side of the hall, why don't they put those 91 votes up there if they want this to pass?"

"Representative Johnson, for what point do you arise, Sir?"

"Well, I would like to ask the Clerk, how many affirmative votes have been registered? There's 85, now and there's 86, thirty seconds ago. Now, if somebody wants to get up and switch...now they're back to 86. Who switched? I don't mind, if somebody want to do that...."

"If they hit 89, I'm going to declare it passed. Representative Greiman, have you had an opportunity to finish the Amendment yet? We've been doing this for your benefit, Sir. It's been an hour and a half so far. Okay, Representative Bullock."

"Vote me 'no'." 192  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Record the Gentleman as 'no'. Representative Huff."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, since we're on the Order of Motions and we don't seem to be able to resolve this Motion, I would like to be recognized at the proper time for the purpose of making a Motion of my own, which is already on the Calendar."

"Representative Deuchler."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in support of this Motion, because I was angered actually, by a statement that was made on the other side of the aisle, saying that, money would solve our problem. I don't think that money was the source of what we are debating here, I think it's a will on the part of this elected Body, that's responsive to our constituents, who are looking to us to achieve economical and cost effective solutions to probably one of the most....the worse structures that the state has every known, the RTA."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record.....what, what...okay. Representative Brummer, were you asking to be recognized, Sir?"

"Yes, I was and so was Representative O'Connell, next to me. Would you recognize Representative O'Connell, please."

"Did you want to speak first of all, Sir?"

"After he does."

"Representative Zito."

"Mr. Speaker, I don't know if this is the appropriate time, I had my light on and I want to explain my vote, I had not voted yet."

"It's still open, Sir."

"Thank you. I'm a new Member of this House, a freshman and I thought that, I was elected by people to represent a 193  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 district in the suburbs. Unfortunately, since I came here, I've learned quiet an education, you know, somebody said, that this is the big leagues they play hard ball here. Well, you taught me something. In every Amendment on both sides of the aisle, dealing with the RTA, I haven't seen anything that dealt for the betterment of the people and the betterment of transportation. It's been all politics. I wanted to come here and represent people, unfortunately, all the Amendments and all the Bills represent politics. Well, you've taught me something. If I'm to learn an education then I'll play politics too, I'll stick with my Leadership and vote 'no'." Speaker Daniels: :Representative Huskey."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I listened to the fancy soothsayers for hours, but I..I feel compelled to say something. You know, in my district the bus company has been closed, three weeks there hasn't been one bus run, for three weeks because the people are still paying their taxes for the RTA, but they're not getting any type of service, whatsoever. Actually, we have gotten two letters and two phone calls. The two phone calls were from the owners of the bus company, the two letters were from citizens inconvenienced, because we have no bus service in that area. I'm speaking...I'll get to the Motion...I'm trying to explain why I'm voting 'yes' on the Motion. Mr. Speaker, can I have order, please.?"

"Alright, would you please bring your remarks to a close."

"Well, what I'm going to say is, I am voting 'yes', in hopes that I can go back to those people who are....to the disadvantage of not having a bus service, I can go back to those senior citizens and say, look, I have tried to vote as a suburban Legislator to get a bus running in your 194  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 district. I along with my colleagues, Jane Barnes, has voted 'yes' to get a bus running in your district, where our....when I look on the other side of the aisle and see, 'present' votes, when the buses are standing still in garages and the senior citizens have no way even to get their grocerys home from the groceries store, and people are voting 'present'. For that Mr....."

"Alright, now, Representative O'Connell for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"Mr. Speaker. This is the last place I would like to be, right now. I voted 'aye' before, because I wanted to get some debate on this issue and I think we've gotten plenty of it. Its taken an hour and a half, by my estimation since we began debate on this..."

"So, Representative Greiman could finish the Amendment. As soon as he acknowledges he's done, we might be able to go on."

"Mr. Speaker, excuse me. I've had a chance to look at this Amendment, probably got more review of this Amendment during this procedural discussion than I would have had, had we'd debate this. This is no better than what we have right now. What this Amendment calls for, is a restriction of 50%..."

"Excuse me, Representative O'Connell. Representative Ebbesen."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I'm going to plead ignorance to you and the House but, we're on a Oral Verified Roll Call. I don't know what the rules are, what prevails, we're under a very unusal circumstances, Mr. Speaker. But I've seen that go up without acknowledging the Chair and asking for changes from 88, down to 84, 83, now, we've got someone talking. I don't know what the rules are and what prevails, I'm not that familiar with the rules but, Oral 195  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981 Verified Roll Call, I don't understand what's going on, because people are changing their votes up there on an Oral Verified Roll Call, under these circumstances. Mr. Speaker, it's in your hands but, there's something wrong in Denmark."

"Representative Leverenz....Representative Leverenz, or excuse me, Representative O'Connell."

"First of all, Mr. Speaker, I'm changing my 'aye' to 'no'."

"Alright. Record Representative O'Connell as 'no'. Representative O'Connell."

"If I may, just finish then I'll sit down."

"You may talk all you want, Sir. You will be extended the same couresty as every other Member of the House."

"And I appreciate it, Mr. Speaker."

"You're welcome, Sir."

"What this Bill calls for, is a reduction of 100% services to be used in the area that the tax monies are collected to 50%. It maintains the 1% sales tax...it maintains the 1% sales tax and increases the fare box. I would have voted against this Amendment, if it were heard on Third Reading or Second Reading. I cannot see why The Amendment should have a chance to be heard, let's work on it tomorrow when we have more time to review the entire matter."

"Alright, now, Representative Christensen."

"Mr. Speaker, last night for fifteen minutes you ignored me, tonight for fifteen minutes you ignored me. I've listened to all the talk, one side and on the other, I just want you to know that I want to vote 'present'."

"Christensen from 'aye' to 'present'. Now, Representative McGrew." 196  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"No." Record Representative McGrew as 'no'. Representative Leverenz."

"Convert me to 'no'."

"Convert Representative Leverenz, from 'aye' to 'no'. Now, are there any other changes of votes? Representative Brummer, how do you wish to be recorded, Sir?"

"Please record me 'no'."

"Record Representative Brummer, as 'no'. Any other changes of votes? Alright. Have all voted....I have Representative Ronan waving his arm in the back, he's very anxious to talk about the kids. Go ahead, Representative Ronan."

"Mr. Speaker, I'm appalled, I've had my light on for the last half an hour. Not to speak on the Motion, I have no desire to speak on the Motion but I want to criticize the Chair, for the atrocious job that you've done today. I've been here for ten hours, I've wasted my...my entire day, I could have been out playing golf, but you waste my time here listening to these guys on the other side of the aisle and on this side of the aisle, justify voting on a Motion. If anybody is worried about their election, voting on a Motion, they don't know how to get elected to this General Assembly. I'm just going to tell you, I'm going to change my vote, just to justify your existance, I want to switch from a 'no' to a 'present'."

"Alright, any other changes? Change Representative Ronan from 'no' to 'present'. Any other changes? Alright. Have all voted who wish? Take the record. Okay, now, somebody played their cute little game and moved it to 85. There are 84 'ayes', 74 'nos' and 5 'present', and this Motion is lost. Representative Telcser." 197  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 72nd Legislative Day June 26, 1981

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I now move that the House stand adjourned until tomorrow morning at 11:00 A.M., Saturday, morning, 11:00 A.M. I move we stand adjourned. If the Clerk needs any time, let him have what he needs."

"Alright. Mr. Telcser has moved that the House stand adjourned till 11:00 o'clock tomorrow morning. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, the House is in adjournment until 11:00 o'clock tomorrow morning, with whatever time the Clerk needs for Perfunct Session."

"Captain Capparelli asks that you all be reminded that there is a House lobbyist baseball game tomorrow morning at Iles Park, at 11:00 o'clock A.M. What time? 9:30, and Representative Lechowicz is going to square off with Representative Conti, as our Representatives determine the RTA battle."

"No further business, the House now stands adjourned." 198  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX PAGE 1 JUNE 26, 1981 SB-0089 MOTIONS PAGE 74 SB-0168 3RD READING PAGE 53 SB-0170 MOTIONS PAGE 56 SB-0256 3RD READING PAGE 158 SB-0381 2ND READING PAGE 135 SB-0431 3RD READING PAGE 13 SB-0501 2ND READING PAGE 135 SB-0507 2ND READING PAGE 136 SB-0517 2ND READING PAGE 136 SB-0606 3RD READING PAGE 14 SB-0653 3RD READING PAGE 15 SB-0654 3RD READING PAGE 20 SB-0670 2ND READING PAGE 136 SB-0671 2ND READING PAGE 136 SB-0703 2ND READING PAGE 136 SB-0731 3RD READING PAGE 3 SB-0764 3RD READING PAGE 24 SB-0955 2ND READING PAGE 5 3RD READING PAGE 12 SB-0957 3RD READING PAGE 46 SB-1049 2ND READING PAGE 136 SB-1060 3RD READING PAGE 113 SB-1073 3RD READING PAGE 74 SB-1081 3RD READING PAGE 48 SB-1104 2ND READING PAGE 43 3RD READING PAGE 44 SB-1119 3RD READING PAGE 7 SB-1143 3RD READING PAGE 57 SB-1148 3RD READING PAGE 65 SB-1173 3RD READING PAGE 105 SB-1201 3RD READING PAGE 9 SUBJECT MATTER HOUSE TO ORDER - SPEAKER RYAN PAGE 1 PRAYER - REVEREND WORTON PAGE 1 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE PAGE 2 ROLL CALL FOR ATTENDANCE PAGE 2 REPRESENTATIVE CONTI IN CHAIR PAGE 23 REPRESENTATIVE DANIELS IN CHAIR PAGE 58 RECESS PAGE 123 HOUSE RECONVENES - SPEAKER RYAN PAGE 123 ADJOURNMENT PAGE 198