Illinois House Floor Debate — June 27, 1983

"The House vill come to order. Speaker Madigan says 'hello' to everybody, and we will be... The Chaplain for today will be Reverend Ruben Cruz, Pastor of First Spanish Christian Church of Chicago, Illinois and a TV celebrity. Reverend Cruz is a guest of Representative Joseph... Joseph Berrios. Will the guests in the gallery please rise and join us for the invocation?"

"Let us pray. Padre Celestial, te pedimos en esta manana por los miembros de la Camara de Representantes de nuestro estado. Los hispanos de Illinois nos sentimos agradecidos de que por fin tenemos un Representante hispano en este cuerpo legislativo. Hoy te damos gracias especiales por Joseph Berrios. Dale la sabiduria y fortaleza que necesita. El no solo representa su distrito legislativo, pero simbolicamente es el representante de todos los hispanos de este estado. Nuestra comunidad ve en el al legislador que entiende nuestras necesidades, al legislador que ayudara a educar a sus companeros de tarea a entender los problemas de nuestra comunidad. Our Heavenly Father, this morning we pray for the Members of the House of Representatives of our state. The numerous Spanish speaking citizens of Illinois are grateful that there is finally one of our own in the midst of this group of law makers. Today we ask for your special blessing on Joseph Berrios. Concede to him the wisdom and the courage that he needs. He not only represents a legislative district, but symbolically he is also the Representative of thousands and thousands of Hispanic people who see in him someone who understands our unique needs and can illuminate his colleagues as to the manifold problems our people encounter. In the midst of all the difficult decisions that this House must make in the coming week, we ask that 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 they will keep in mind the needs of the less fortunate in our society. We pray that they especially think of the needs of our children. Help each one of our lawmakers to remember that the experiences that our children have in their formative years will prepare their lives for the splendid possibilities of adulthood. Help them to recall the programs that will assist in this development. O Lord, their education is so important. We know that their future will be determined according to the quality of instruction and opportunities for personal development that are offered to them. Please Lord, help our lawmakers to be cognizant of the reality that the majority of these programs and educational opportunities depend on funding from the state budget. Lord, we ask for You to guide them today. Lord, we ask for You to direct them today. And Lord, we ask for You to help them today. In Your name we ask. Amen."

"Thank you, Reverend Cruz. Leave of the House, we allow Representative Berrios to have a tape of today's invocation. We will be led in the Pledge by Representative Gordon Ropp."

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Excused absences. Representative Greiman, are there any excused absences? Representative Greiman."

"Mr. Speaker, Representative Christensen is absent by reason of illness in the family, and his key has been removed in accordance with the rules."

"Thank you. Are there any excused absences on the Republican side? All present. The House will now go to the Order... Oh, I'm sorry. There are 117 on the 2  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 quorum call. Is Representative Giorgi in the House? Representative Giorgi, we're going to do the Agreed Resolutions. Will the Clerk read the Resolutions?"

"Senate Joint Resolution 57, Wait and Klemm; House Joint Resolution 65, John Dunn; House Joint Resolution 66, Richmond; House Resolution 424, Bopp Leverenz Topinka; 425, Johnson; 426, Richmond: 427, Brummer: 428, Brunsvold; 429, McGann; 430, Woodyard: 431, Brummer Bowman; 432, Reilly Topinka."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Giorgi."

"Mr. Speaker, Wait's House Joint 57 notes a retirement. John Dunn's 65 honors Chief Illiniwek. 66 by Richmond also notes a retirement. 424 by Ropp Leverenz talk about beautifying the grounds with flowers. 425 Johnson, notes a retirement. 426 by Richmond notes a retirement. 427 by Brummer honors a winner of a class association, high school association, Class A State Tournament, Beecher City High School Eagles team. Brummer's 428 also notes a retirement. 429 by McGann congratulates Father Mindle on his 40th anniversary as a priest. 430 by Woodyard congratulates the Mattoon Junior Football League on its contributions. 431, Brummer, honors a guy that's 91 years old, and 432 by Reilly urges that a U.S. postage stamp commemorating Dr. Greene (sic Dr. Greene Vardiman Black) of Jacksonville, Illinois be struck. I move for the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions."

"Representative Giorgi moves the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. All in favor say 'aye', opposed 'nay', and the Agreed Resolutions are adopted. Death Resolutions."

"House Resolution 433, Satterthworth... Satterthwaite, in respect to the memory of Professor Harry 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day W. (sic M.) Tiebout." June 27, 1983

"Representative Giorgi moves the adoption of the Death Resolution. All in favor say aye opposed 'nay', and the Death Resolution is adopted. The House... The hour of 9 having arrived, the House will go to the Order of State and... the Subject Matter State and Local Government, on the Special Order of Business. And the first Bill is Senate Bill 70, McMaster, on page two. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 70, a Bill for an Act making uniform the penalties for removing or vandalizing traffic control signs or devices. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative McMaster on Senate Bill 70."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. We debated this bull... Bill quite extensively last week, I believe. I believe Representative John Dunn and I were in on the debate. Essentially, what we have done with this, with Amendments, is lower the fine from 500 dollars to 250 dollars and leave the other penalties the same as they were in current law. And this Bill is in response to traffic control sign vandalism, and does institute the 250 dollar fine and the offense penalty. It's good legislation. We need to save our people the problems that they run into, the accidents because the traffic control signs have been vandalized. I would urge your support, and I will try to answer any questions."

"Representative McMaster has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 70. The Gentleman from Macon, Representative Dunn."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in opposition to Senate Bill 70. Senate Bill 70 has a good purpose and an excellent Sponsor, but I do disagree with him in this one instance. We have on the 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 books now laws which will provide for criminal penalties for anyone who does damage to public property and especially signs which control and regulate the flow of traffic - stop signs, lane signs, traffic signals, barricades. People can be fined and put in jail, in fact, at the present time for violation for tearing down or vandalizing traffic signs. What this Bill does is to provide for a minimum fine for any sign which regulates the flow of traffic, so a Judge has no discretion. If a... And the judges around our towns in downstate Illinois can pretty well tell quickly who are the... who are the kids who've done an imprudent thing on one occasion and ought to be frightened, and they probably will never get in trouble again, and those who are really evil people who... who need to have the boom lowered right down upon them. Judges can... can make those decisions. At the present time, however, if, for a prank some night, someone does remove a traffic sign even though no damage occurs, if they happen to get caught in the Act, there'll be a minimum fine of 250 dollars. I think that's awfully steep. I don't think it will put any more traffic officers, or county sheriffs or state police on the highways to watch out for people who are vandalizing signs or removing barricades where damage can be done. If we really want to solve the problem, that is the way to do it, to put more people into law enforcement, not more laws on the books. So I would respectfully urge a 'no' vote on this Bill."

"The Gentleman... Representative Neff on the Bill."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'm speaking in support of Senate Bill 70. This is something that's been needed for a long time. Many of us have had occasions where certain signs were taken down on crossroads 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 in the rural areas, and there were accidents, people killed. So I... I don't think the penalty is too steep. I think this is what we need, and I think it'll stop the vandalism because this has been very serious in our rural areas. And I would hope we would support it."

"Representative McMaster to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think you all know the intent of the Bill, and on a personal basis, I think a 250 dollar fine is not excessive when the vandalism can and often does cause loss of life. And I'm surprised that we would have people that would put 250 dollars as being too high a fine for the protection of people's lives and property. I would certainly urge a 'yes' vote on this. Thank you."

"Representative McMaster has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 70. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Jesse... Jesse White, do you want to... All right. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 103 'ayes', 6 'nays', 4 voting 'present'. Senate Bill 70, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 310, Terzich, appears on... oh, McCracken, Tom McCracken. Proceed with..."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a Motion pursuant to 12 (c) of the House rules. I move to modify the Special Order of Business, State and Local Government by adding Senate Bill 774 to that Order for consideration today. I have a couple of reasons for that. We have approximately 30 Bills on that Special Order of Business, and this is one of the most important ones which concerns itself with State and Local Government. And also, it appears that, due to the late hour, in that we will be forced to stop 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 considering Senate Bills today. This is an important Bill which should be considered, and I move the adoption of my Motion."

"Representative McCracken, you weren't recognized for that purpose, but I will recognize you before we complete this Order of Business on that Motion. Senate Bill 310 appears on page two of the Calendar, Representative Terzich. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 310, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to compensation of sheriffs, coroners, county treasurers, county clerks, recorders and auditors. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Terzich."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, in addition to the coroners, this also covers the regional school superintendents. It provides for a 5,000 dollar salary adjustment in 1983 and 1,500 dollars in each year thereafter. We covered this Bill before. This is the only time that they will have an opportunity. They haven't had a salary adjustment in four years, and I think that this is reasonable and equitable. And I'd appreciate your support."

"Representative Terzich has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 310. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Barris."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Terzich, you indicate this is a 5,000 dollar salary adjustment. Is it... Is it an adjustment downward or an adjustment upward?"

"This is upward. They haven't had a salary adjustment 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 in four years and would not have another one for another four years."

"I'm sorry. This is upward, then?"

"Oh, yes."

"Oh, thank you."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hoffman."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Early in this Session, a Bill was introduced to accomplish this task and was amended into its present form by the Representative from DeWitt to provide a phase in of this salary increase. And as I stated on the floor of the House when we amended this Bill that the beneficiaries of this legislation recognize and appreciate the fact that any increase in salary, however modest, is dependent upon increases in state revenue. If those do not come to fruition, obviously, neither will this legislation. I would make two additional points in supporting this legislation. One is that a lot of attention has been focused on one of the regional superintendents who is from a large county in northern Illinois. I would remind all of the rest of you that there are 57 other people involved plus all of their assistants; and therefore, we're talking about something that has general state-wide coverage. I would also remind you that unless this legislation is adopted, that these individuals and their assistants who do an outstanding job. I believe, will receive... will have no opportunity to receive any change in their salary for eight years. So for these reasons, and with the proviso that I have indicated, I stand in support of the Gentleman's Motion for the adoption of this legislation to Senate Bill 310 as amended."

"Representative McMaster." 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me point out something to the newer Members of this General Assembly. This is a case... an example of what can happen with pieces of legislation Bills. This Bill started out concerning coroners. That had all been done away with, and now it is a salary increase for superintendents of educational service regions, regional superintendents of schools. A little bit of background - several years ago the school superintendents felt that should do something because of the cost of their office, one in every county, so they sponsored and pushed legislation that would have educational service regions. And that was fine with one exception. In just about every case where several counties went together... the smaller ones went to a service region. Then they added on an assistant superintendent of educational service regions, just about one from every county that they were losing superintendents in. So I think that was kind of a paper tiger, what they did then. I have no question about the sincerity of these people, and I do feel this, however, that their salaries are sufficient high. They're high enough for them under the current law. Someone said that they wouldn't get a pay raise for eight years. Well, that's true. They've gone four years without a pay raise which everyone would have to do if they were in a four year elective office. And they would go another four years, so I think the point is that they would have another four years to go before they could get a pay increase. I think that in this, and I believe and I would stand corrected if someone would choose to, that this money comes from the State of Illinois, not from the local governments. And I think the financial condition of the State of Illinois is such that we should not be throwing in this pay increase for the superintendents of educational 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 service regions. I would strongly recommend a 'no' vote on this legislation."

"The Gentleman from Effingham (sic Jefferson), Representative Hicks."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, would the... I'm from Jefferson actually, there. My colleague down here is giving me trouble. I'm not from... Effingham. Would the Gentleman yield for a question, please?"

"He will. Proceed."

"Yes, in my reading of the Amendment itself, it does not take out the coroners. Is that correct?"

"I'm sorry, Representa... I didn't hear what... It did what?"

"In my understanding of the Bill, the way it's been amended, the coroners are not taken out of this. Is that correct?"

"That's correct."

"Thank you."

"Representative Ropp, the Gentleman from McLean."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"In other words, the portion of the coroners is still in? Is that correct?"

"That's correct."

"I didn't... Did he say 'yes'?"

"Yes."

"Okay. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I think it's important to take into consideration that when we're concerned about taxes, as we all are, most of the people, if not all who are in the educational arena, have the opportunity yearly to receive some monetary increase if there are sufficient dollars to do that. This is the only 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 provision in the statute that says in the educational arena that those dollars have to come or the authorization has to be granted by the State of Illinois through this general Body; therefore, in my opinion that we ought to support this legislation even though it has been substantially, in my opinion, reduced from the original intent, in that it will be spread out over a period of time and is a good piece of legislation. Other teachers, other school superintendents will have an opportunity every year to get a salary increase. This particular position is only granted at best once every four years."

"Representative Brummer."

"Yes, I move the previous question."

"It's not necessary. Representative Terzich to close."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, we did go around. It would be eight years, and I'm sure you will agree that if this Bill does pass, and hopefully, it will be, that this would not go into effect. I'm sure that the Governor would not sign any type of an adjustment if we did not have sufficient funds to support the educational system in the State of Illinois. They're we well deserving, and I would appreciate your support."

"Representative Terzich has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 310. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 72 'ayes', 33 'nays', 6 voting 'present', and Senate Bill 310, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. I'll remind the Members that we've got a lot of work so try to hold down debate, if we're not... if we're being repetitive. Representative Johnson, 11  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Accidentally hit the wrong button. Can I be recorded as 'no' on that?"

"Leave to record to record John... Tim Johnson as 'no'. Leave. The next Bill is... Yes, Dwight Friedrich 'no'. Senate Bill 496, page three of your Calendar, Representative Hoffman. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 496, a Bill for an Act in relation to financial support of certain children. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hoffman: Hoffman." "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Senate Bill 496 was prepared by the Department of Children and Family Services to consolidate existing statutory provisions for parental fees and to reform the area of assessment schedule and enforcement. DCFS will revise their fee schedule under the administrative procedure law. The revised schedule will permit fees more consistent with the actual cost of care and parent ability to pay. The enforcement of payment is enhanced by allowing the DCFS to contract with state's attorneys and private agencies as Public Aid is now able to do and currently does with their child support program. And I would ask for your support of Senate Bill 496."

"Representative Hoffman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 496. There being no discussion, the question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 496 pass?' Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 114 'ayes' and no 'nays', and Senate Bill 496, having received a 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Page four of your Calendar, Senate Bill 522, Vinson, the Gentleman from DeWitt. Read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 522, a Bill for an Act to amend the Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson, on Senate Bill 522."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 522 amends the Mental Health Code to increase the fees paid for treatment by responsible relatives in the state's persons treated. It increases the maximum fee from 100 dollars a month to 112 dollars a month. The new fee schedule increases by approximately 12% the monthly fee, but removes from the schedule those who earn less than 9,400 dollars. I would move for favorable passage of Senate Bill 522."

"Representative Vinson moves for the passage of Senate Bill 522. There being no discussion, the question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 522 pass?' Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 112 'ayes', 2 'nays', and Senate Bill 522, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Page seven of the Calendar, Senate Bill 526, Terzich. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 526, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to create sanitary districts and remove obstructions in the Des Plaines and Illinois Bivers. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Terzich on Senate Bill 522."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker...." 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"526, rather." June 27, 1983

"526 changes the amount of non-bid contracts from 5 to $10,000, as well as it adjusts the sale of water between local units of government, that it would be...the rates would be supervised by the Illinois Commerce Commission, and I'd be more than happy to answer any questions. Appreciate your support."

"Representative Terzich moves for the passage of Senate Bill 526. There being no discussion, the question is...I'm sorry. Representative Bowman."

"Thank you. Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will. Proceed."

"Representative Terzich, was the Amendment... is the part of the Bill that relates to the sale of water a result of an Amendment offered by Mr. Peterson?"

"Yes, that's correct."

"Okay, now does this relate only to secondary sales of municipalities to unincorporated areas, or does it..."

"That's correct. The municipalities that received water directly from Lake Michigan..."

"Are not affected."

"Not affected. Only the sale between different..."

"Okay, so my community of Evanston is not affected by this?"

"That is correct."

"Thank you. Then I support the Bill. Fine piece of legislation, Representative."

"Representative Terzich has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 526. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 94 'ayes', 13 'nays', 3 voting 'present', and Senate Bill 526, having received 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 613, Berrios. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 613, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Human Rights Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Joseph Berrios."

"This Bill requires that when the category of white and black are being used for the purpose of race or... that the category Hispanic should also be included, and I would ask for a favorable vote."

"Representative Berrios has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 613. On that, the Gentleman from Edgar, Representative Woodyard."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will. Proceed."

"Representative, a couple of questions. What is the definition or determination of Hispanic?"

"People like me."

"How..."

"He said, 'I are one'."

""I are one." Okay. Traditionally, in the past, it's been considered a derivation of white, and why all of sudden are we creating a new form that could lead into other ethnic groups also demanding the same type of treatment that would be demanded under this Bill?"

"Well, we're... The Hispanics are basically always lumped in with the... in the white category, and when you really want to find out some statistics on the Hispanic community throughout the city, you know, the figures are very hard to get because of the fact that they're all lumped together. What we're looking for is so that we, the Hispanics, can come out and, you know, take... get involved 15  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 in some of the programs that are out there and thus have the numbers there."

"Don't you feel if this occurs that other groups would also come in and ask... such as... Polish, or Czech or whatever it might be and ask for the same thing?"

"It could."

"Do you have any idea... Is there any cost involved with this?"

"Not that I know of. Just... All it would be was just to print on the, you know, when they print the forms up, just to put a little box in there."

"Okay. Thank you."

"Representative Berrios has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 613. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting "no". Looks like the prayer was worth it. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 96 'ayes', 16 'nays', 1 voting 'present', and Senate Bill 613, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 726 on page four of the Calendar, Terzich O'Connell. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 726, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to provide for the Illinois - Michigan Canal National Corridor Civic Center Authority of Cook County. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Terzich."

"Mr. Speaker, Senate Bill 726 before the United States Congress is a matter supported by the Illinois Delegation, namely the Illinois - Michigan Canal National Heritage Corridor Act of 1983. Senate Bill 726 was designed to lend 16  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 tangible support from the Illinois Legislature for this historically significant project by creating the Illinois - Michigan Canal Civic Authority. The Authority may own and operate various facilities of limited size and nature, such as information centers, docks, et cetera which support the Illinois and Michigan Canal Heritage Corridor. There is no additional appropriation will be required to implement this plan, as a mechanism is in place under the Civic Authority Act which is funded by the race track tax. No income tax, nor property tax, nor funds from the General Revenue Fund are involved, and further, the power to levy tax is not granted. And this is a very significant piece of legislation that is also supported by the State Chamber of Commerce, and I'd appreciate your support."

"Representative Terzich has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 726. The Lady from DuPage, Representative Nelson."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will. Proceed."

"Representative Terzich, at one time, it's my understanding that the Authority you're creating here had the power of eminent domain. Is that still in the Bill?"

"No, that was removed by Amendment yesterday."

"Okay. Thank you. If this area of the state becomes a national park, would not the National Park Service take over some of the functions of this Authority?"

"Yes, they would, and what this would also do is provide all of those communities along the I & M Canal so that they could coordinate their facilities to enhance the Illinois - Michigan Heritage Trail rather than duplicating a lot of facilities, that all of these communities would be involved in this Committee." 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

June 27, 1983 "Can you explain to me the area, then, that the Authority has responsibility for? Is it the entire Canal or is it just in Cook County?"

"The Metropolitan Area means that all that the territory of the the State of Illinois lying within a municipality of Lyons, McCook, Hodgkins, Countryside, Indian Head Park, Willow Springs, Justice, Bridgeview, Bedford Park, Summit and Lemont."

"Those communities are just in Cook County. Is that right?"

"That's correct."

"So what happens at the border?"

"We are designating the area within this Bill."

"Thank you very much."

"You're welcome."

"To the Bill."

"Proceed."

"To the Bill, Mr. Speaker. I think that all of us in this General Assembly wish to support the notion of this Heritage Corridor National Park which may come into being someday. The Illinois - Michigan Canal is a historic part of our state. I think, however, that this Bill... some Members may wish to take a critical look at because it does create a new Authority that I believe, may, at some date, be in conflict with the National Park Service. And also, it is limited only to Cook County, and I see no good reason for doing that. If it's a good idea, then it should create an authority that would cover the entire area that we're talking about here. So for that reason, I believe that I will vote 'present'. Thank you."

"The Lady from LaSalle, Representative Breslin."

"Question of the Sponsor?" 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"Proceed."

June 27, 1983 "Representative, what affect... I... I listened to the previous debate, but I am still not clear as to what affect or what authority this Authority will have over, for instance, the Illinois Valley Area that is presently considered for I & M Canal National Heritage status?"

"All right. The Bill only applies to those authorities in Cook County, and it does not provide for any additional bonding authority other than revenue bonds. applies to Cook County."

"Only to those areas within Cook County."

"That's right." Breslin: It only "What is going to happen to the areas outside of Cook County of which there are many?"

"This Bill has no impact on those areas outside Cook County."

"Do you know if there is any other legislation that is going to deal with that issue presently pending before this Assembly?"

"Not to my knowledge."

"Okay. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Birkinbine."

"Thank you... Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Yes."

"Does this Bill still include the language that deals with the various civic centers around the state in exempting them from both state and local taxation?"

"Yes, it does."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative O'Connell." 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. I support this Bill. Simply in response to an inquiry regarding downstate support, I think it's important to note that currently the state does provide financial support to downstate civic centers that were created prior to July 1, '79 by providing up to 75% of the debt service costs needed to construct approved civic centers. And the money to pay for this assistance is derived from thirty-three and a half percent of the horse race privilege taxes which are deposited in the Metropolitan Exposition Auditorium and Office Building Fund. As to its being addressed to the Cook County area, this is in response to an Illinois Civic Center Study entitled, 'Market and Financial Feasability of Civic Center Development in Illinois', which was prepared by 'Perkins' and 'Will' Group Incorporated and the 'Booze', Allen and Hamilton, Incorporated, consultants. And that was one of their major recommendation that those area of the state that have the strongest potential ability to support a civic center, civic facility, already have or will soon have facilities. I would submit that this is extremely important that the area in question is a highly populated area, and that it... it was well... will have a positive affect on the overall stature of this heritage canal that will be a reality in several years. I would support its adoption."

"The Gentleman from Kane, Representative Kirkland."

"Mould the Sponsor yield?"

"He says he will. Proceed."

"Okay. On the language about the exemption from taxation for the downstate authorities, what was the criteria for choosing the seven towns that are described in my analysis, and are they still the only ones affected?" 20  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983

"The seven affect... The seven of them that are affected, Springfield already has it in... in their authority because they already pay property taxes. And Rockford has it, of course. Representative Giorgi put in an Amendment to exclude the Rockford Civic Center, if I'm not..."

"Representative Giorgi would like to expound on that."

"I'll defer to Representative Giorgi."

"The language had to be cleared up because they weren't sure if metro... civic centers should be paying property taxes. In some instances, metro centers are built in enterprise zones or in tax increment districts, so they promise to pay taxes. So the language... This clarifies who should be paying taxes and who shouldn't be paying taxes. For example, Rockford is one of them that is going to pay property taxes in that Bill. Rockford is going to pay property taxes because they made a deal with their tax increment district. Follow that? The language had to be cleared up. Generally, metro centers shouldn't pay property taxes. Generally."

"All right. Thank you."

"So that cleans the language up for all of them."

"All right. Proceed, Representative Kirkland."

"You don't pay any in Aurora."

"What I'm getting at is, there is... These towns were not picked randomly but there is some criteria that ties them all together in..."

"They're all in existence now. They're all in existence now."

"All right. And for instance, there are in other towns that have civic center authorities that could come under 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 this language but don't under the same criteria. Is that correct? Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Kulas."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"Representative Kulas moves the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?' Those in favor signify by saying 'aye', those opposed 'no', and the main question is put. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Terzich, to close."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, this is a very good Bill that will benefit the entire State of Illinois, will provide support facilities to the corridor and communities adjacent to the land masses, also continuity to the corridor, and it will demonstrate state and local commitment to the corridor through the joint funding program. And also, it would benefit each community that is surrounding it, and I would move for its support."

"Representative Terzich has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 726. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. The Lady from Marshall, Representative Koehler, one minute to explain her vote."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I had wanted to ask the Sponsor about the conflict that could certainly arise with this piece of legislation between the delegation that is... the delegation that is currently working on this pro... this program. The Congressional Delegation from the State of Illinois, industrial leaders, civic leaders all up and down the Canal are working with the State of Illinois and the National Park Service in trying to come up with the best plan for the Illinois - Michigan Canal. It is my concern 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 that this is going to cause a conflict in jurisdiction over the Canal. Who is going to have..."

"Will the Lady bring her remarks to a close?"

"... the final say so. And I... And I would recommend that these questions be answered before this legislation is passed."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this issue, there are 69 'ayes', 30 'nays', 13 voting 'present', and Senate Bill 726, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 795. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 795, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Notary Public Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Terzich, on Senate Bill 795."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Senate Bill..."

"One moment. The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Regarding that Motion, Mr. Speaker. I thought it might be a good time now in the Bill order."

"It's not a good time yet. We're past that Bill number if you'll look, 795. Yes, Representative Vinson, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Are you suggesting that you're not going to give Mr. McCracken a chance to put his Motion?"

"No. No. I'm suggesting that I am honor bond to call him on his Motion before we complete this Order of Business, as I said before."

"Okay."

"But it is not timely at present. Representative Terzich on Senate Bill 795." 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Senate Bill 795 increases the bond for a notary republic from 1,000 to 10,000 dollars. Presently, the notary public commission is issued for a four year period with a required personal surety or corporate bond of 1,000 dollars. This amount was set in 1935, and it has not been changed since. The 1,000 dollar figure is so inadequate that a claimant has little or no protection against the improper act of a notary. In a case in Cook County within the past weeks, it appears that a notary might be involved in fraud involving property. The sum involved is 13,000 dollars. And if someone has been defrauded, the 1,000 dollars would not be much help. And it's hard to conceive any claim against a notary in today's markets which would not exceed 1,000 dollars. This legislation will greatly benefit the general public. Presently, the bond for 1,000 dollars is about 30 dollars or less for four years. A 10,000 bond is estimated to cost 40 dollars for four years, an additional two dollars and fifty cents a year, and I would appreciate your support."

"Representative Terzich has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 795. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Jaffe."

"Yes, will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will. Proceed."

"Now, Bob, why do we really need this Bill? Is it still going to be a personal..."

"The personal security provision is still included in the Bill."

"So, basically, if you have two personal sureties, as you do now, you don't have to go out to the bond market or you don't have to go buy a bond from any bondsman. Is that correct?"

"That's correct. That's correct." 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Okay. Now, let me ask you this. How many cases have actually been filed against notary... nctary publics in the last number of years?"

"There has not been a significant amount filed. There has been a few states that have increased it substantially, California, what have you."

"But have there been any cases really filed against notary publics? I can't think of any that I know of."

"Well, Representative Jaffe, in the same token that... with the provisions of the Bill that it would enhance better credibility with the notary publics, and in addition, the cost involved in this for an annual cost is two dollars and fifty cents which would be mainly involving those people that are directly involved in a notary business such as currency exchange and what have you."

"Well, but... but basically, the way the law works right now is that if you want to become a notary public, you go and you sign as a notary public. And then you'll to me and to Ralph Capparelli and say, "Okay, will you be my surety?" And we'll sign that for you. You know, it's only a 1,000 dollar bond. We'll do that. The thing that I'm concerned about is now if it's a 10,000 dollar bond, maybe you won't get those people to sign for you, and you'll be driven into the bond market. And it sounds like a great Bill that might help some of the bond companies. I don't know if it's going to help any of the people in the general public."

"There again, that a notary does carry responsibilities, Representative Jaffe..."

"No, I understand that. I understand that, but all that I'm saying to you is there are no cases against notaries, and I think that basically what's going to happen is that you're going to have to now go into the bond market to be a 25  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 notary public because Capparelli and I now will not sign as your surety because beforehand it's only a 1,000 dollars, but we're going to worry if it's 10,000 dollars."

"Well, I was led to believe that Representative Capparelli would sign it for you, Representative Jaffe. For me also."

"The Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, probably not too often did the last speaker and I agree on a Bill, but I think that this Bill is probably very unnecessary. I haven't heard of any cases being filed against a notary. I... As far as I know, the cost of getting something notarized is about the same that it's been for years. This is only going to be a further hindrance to the business community by making the notary bond greater. Those who want to be dishonest will certainly go right ahead and be dishonest. And if you've ever tried to collect from a bonding company, Ladies and Gentlemen, you'll know how little protection you really have. And I hate to oppose Representative Terzich's Bill, but I think it's the old statement, 'If it isn't broke, don't fix it.' And I think that applies here, and I would suggest a 'no' vote."

"The Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, selfishly, I should be wholeheartedly for this Bill. In my office, we write dozens of notary bonds, and this will make Ε nine dollars more on every one we write. And so, selfishly, I should be for it. In all the time, in thirty years, of writing notary bonds, I have never... we've never had one claim, not in thirty years, even thought we write dozens of 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 them in our office. Now what it's going to do, a lot of banks and other institutions have numerous notary publics there for the convenience of the public. So what they'll do, they'll cut them in half, and there you'll be. And the public will be less served. Now, if you want to serve the public less, go ahead and vote for this. If you want to... If you want to make the bonding companies more money, vote for this. It's a good Bill for the bonding companies. And I love it, even though I'm going to vote 'no' for it. But I'll make nine dollars apiece every time they come in for renewal, and I appreciate the effort of the Representative to help me make that much more money, but I can't vote for it."

"The Gentleman from Madison, Representative Wolf. Proceed. Wolf."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, isn't this Bill on Short Debate?"

"No, this is on the Special Order. That removes it from Short Debate. Oh, yes, I'm told that we can still hear them under Short Debate when they're on Special Order. So let's... Representative Hallock, I'm sorry. I didn't see you, John."

"I... I just want to move the previous question."

"Well, we'll recognize you for that. That's for sure. Representative Hallock has moved the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?' Those in favor say 'aye', opposed say 'no', and the main question is put. Representative Terzich to close."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, in addition, that... there has been a number of cases of impropriety of people - notaries. I... I know that recently, in recent years, there's been number of cases in which notaries took money from immigrants for improper and illegal purposes. It also appears that the increased penalty of these bonds present more meaningful 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 sources of recovery for the real estate and motor vehicle consumers, and one which we can afford to proceed with. The cost is very, very minimal. If the individual did have a right of recovery, where the bond was significant that this would be an enhancement for the notaries to watch what they're doing. The additional cost is minimal. Dwight Friedrich needs the additional commissions on this Bill, and in addition, Senator D'Arco will be extremely mad at me if this Bill is not passed." passage

"Representative Terzich has moved for the of Senate Bill 795. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting "no". Preston, one minute to explain his vote." Preston: Representative "Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't think there's any need to speak on this. There's absolutely no need for notary publics in this state, and people are justly voting "no"

"Representative Leverenz, one minute to explain his vote."

"Yes, I just found out exactly why this Bill should fail, based on the Sponsor's last comment." voted?

"That's why I'm voting 'aye'. Have all Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 19 'ayes', 85 'nays' and 11 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having failed to receive the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared lost. And somebody better go tell D'Arco. Representative Terzich is seeking recognition."

"Representative Friedrich, do you have any immediate life insurance policies available that...., disability income, something like that?"

"On page five... On page five of the Calendar under Short Debate, 879, Klemm. The Clerk will read the 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day Bill." June 27, 1983

"Senate Bill 879, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Municipal Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Klemm."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could I ask leave of the House to return Senate Bill 7... 879 from Third Reading to Second Reading, Short Debate for purpose..."

"The Gentleman asks leave to return Senate Bill 879 to the Order of Second Reading for the purpose of an Amendment. Leave, and the Bill is on Second Reading. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Amendment #5, Topinka - Tate - Johnson."

"Representative Klemm."

"Mr. Speaker, may I have leave to table Floor Amendment #4?"

"Leave to table Amendment #4. Leave? Representative Tuerk, for what reason do you rise?"

"Would the Sponsor yield to a question? What is that Amendment? I've..."

"Amendment #4 was providing some rate determination on disagreements between water rates in the City of Chicago and the... using the Illinois Commerce Commission, that if they have some problems, it would go to circuit court."

"Thank you."

"Leave to table. Amendment #4 is tabled. Further Amendments?"

"Amendment #5, Topinka - Tate - Johnson."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Topinka, on Amendment #5."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment #5 is basically an Amendment we passed out of the House on another Bill awhile ago that proceeded to die with 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 that Bill in the Senate because it wasn't called in time to make the deadline. This is the flag Amendment that would allow local communities to fly the American flag without any type of limitation. The original Amendment was Representative Tate's, and I would defer to Representative Tate if he would like to discuss it further."

"Leave. Ms... Ms. Topinka moves to adopt Amendment #5. There being no discussion, those in favor say 'aye', those opposed say "no", and Amendment #5 is adopted. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #6, W. Peterson."

"Representative Peterson on Amendment #6."

"I withdraw Amendment 6."

"Leave to withdraw Amendment #6. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #7, W. Peterson."

"Representative Peterson on Amendment 7. Representative Peterson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment 7 is similar to an Amendment that was previously adopted regarding the determination of rates by municipalities receiving water from other municipalities drawing from Lake Michigan. This Amendment basically changes municipality language to person or unit of government and also provides that the determination be fixed by the circuit court of the county in which the municipality which supplies the water is located. I move for adoption of Amendment 7."

"Representative Peterson moves for the adoption of Amendment #7. The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Mulcahey."

"A question of the Sponsor, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed."

"How does Amendment #7 differ from Amendment #4 which 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day was just tabled?"

"Amendment 4 had municipality June 27, 1983 and also did not specifically specify that the determination of the circuit court take place in the county in which the municipality was located."

"And #7 does that?"

"Yes, that's correct."

"Thank you."

"Representative Brummer."

"Yes, will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Yes, Representative, you're acquainted with Senate Bill 504 which you placed an Amendment or two. Is there anything inconsistent in this Amendment with Senate Bill 504 as amended?"

"No, the... 504 as amended... The two Amendments that were put on exclude Chicago and set it... set the amount that the rate could be raised. I don't... I don't think this has any conflict with 504."

"Does this have anything to do with water systems that are taken over by municipalities and the rates that they may charge?"

"Yes, or it would... also include other than unincorporated areas. It could be a private consumer, a person, entity."

"Well, would you explain, with a little more detail, the provisions of Amendment #7, then? I guess I don't understand it, and I don't have the Amendment in front of me."

"All right. Basically, it says that the... a municipality receiving water from another municipality that draws directly from Lake Michigan, so it would only concern those that draw from Lake Michigan, that the rates are set 31  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 by the Illinois Commerce Commission."

"Okay. Thank you."

"Representative Bowman."

"Yeah, will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will. Proceed."

"I thought I just understood you to say that this Amendment would apply to communities which draw directly from Lake Michigan. Is that correct?"

"Representative, what it would affect is the... any municipality receiving water from a municipality that draws directly from Lake Michigan."

"Okay..."

"It would not affect the... the municipalities drawing directly from Lake Michigan."

"Okay, and it wouldn't affect the rates charged by the municipality drawing directly from Lake Michigan to another municipality?"

"No, it would not."

"Thank you very much."

"Representative Peterson has moved for the adoption of Amendment #7. Those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'nay', and Amendment #7 is adopted. Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading, and Representative Klemm asks leave for the immediate consideration of Senate Bill 879. And leave to allow it on Short Debate? Leave, and the Bill's on Short Debate on Third. Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 879, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Municipal Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Klemm on Senate Bill 879," 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 879 now allows and amends the Illinois Municipal Code to allow an annexing... an annexing municipality to establish the time period for pre-annexation agreements but not to exceed twenty years. The reason for that is that because of the economic conditions, many of the municipalities have been unable to have the developments of the subdivisions, and they're fearful that the water treatment facilities, sewers and that would not be able to be completed. And this would allow that time so that they could keep their bonds. The second Amendment, House Amendment #1, established a method of... of creating the fair cash market for existing waterworks and sewage system. Amendment #2 allows a water commission to borrow money and issue general obligation bonds but not to incur any indebtedness in excess of five and three quarters percent, and it does need a favorable referendum by the voters in order to do that. Amendment #7 was just added, and I don't think I need to discuss any more, but I'll answer any questions, if necessary. Otherwise, I'll move for the adoption of... passage of 879."

"Representative Klemm has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 879. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Jaffe."

"Just on a parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Speaker. How many votes will this take?"

"Proceed."

"... take? How many votes will it take to pass this Bill, now that we have adopted Amendment #5?"

"One moment. 60 votes. Does anybody stand in opposition? The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 879 pass?' Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 102 'ayes', 9 'nays', 6 voting 'present', and Senate Bill 879, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page five on Short Debate appears Senate Bill 919, Steczo - Keane. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 919, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Steczo."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Senate Bill 919, as it was received by the House from the Senate, includes a provision that allows property record cards to be maintained on electra (sic - electronic) data processing equipment. Amendment #1 that was adopted by the House seeks to clarify the tax exempt status of park district property and addresses the concerns of some park districts which, in the past, have been faced with the assessment of some of their park district property. And Amendment #3, which was offered by Representative O'Connell, amends Senate Bill 919 for... to include an exemption for state owned property leased to certain not-for-profit conservation organizations. I would answer any questions and would move for the adoption or the passage of Senate Bill 919."

"Representative Steczo has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 919. Does anybody stand in opposition? If not, the question is, "Shall Senate Bill 919 pass? Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 115 'ayes', no 'nays', 1 'present'. 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Senate Bill 919, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 958 on page nine, Minority Leader Lee Daniels. Is somebody going to handle this for him? Read the Pill."

"Senate Bill 958, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to construction, operation, regulation and maintenance of system toll highways and to create the Illinois State Toll Highway Authority. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Who's going to handle that? The Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson, on Senate Bill 958."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Assembly. Senate Bill 958 amends the Toll Highway Authority Act and eliminates the requirement for an annual capital plan. It does require that the Auditor General perform an annual rather than a semi-annual audit of the State Toll Highway Authority, and it deletes the requirement that the authority file a copy of its annual report with the Clerk of House, Secretary of the Senate and the Illinois Economic and Fiscal Commission. The Toll Highway Authority currently is required to prepare an annual capital plan. According to the Toll Highway Authority, the capital planning requirement was added by error in '79. The Authority has never submitted a capital plan as part of its budgeting process since it receives no local tax dollars or state appropriation. It is totally responsible to its private bond holders. For those reasons, I would move for the passage of Senate Bill 958."

"The... Representative Vinson has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 958. Representative Jaffe."

"Yeah, would the... would the Gentleman yield to a question?"

"Indicates he will." 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 73rd Legislative Day

"It seems to me that we're taking the Toll Highway Authority which has really not been very responsive up in northern Cook County... They're now raising their fees on the toll highway and so on and so forth by something like 25%, and they do it without notice or without really contacting anybody. And here you're deleting the requirements that they prepare an annual capital budget and a three year capital needs report. Well, why are you deleting that? Why are we deleting that? You're also saying over here, you're deleting the requirement that the Toll Highway Authority submit its annual activity with the Clerk of the House, and the Secretary of the Senate and the Illinois Economic and Fiscal Commission, and this basically means that the Governor only receives this report. In other words, the Legislature should not know what the Toll Highway Authority is doing anymore, and they should not have the right... they should not have the duty to file different reports. I don't comprehend why we need this."

"Well, Representative, was that a question that you want me to respond to?"

"Yeah, I mean, you're... you're saying, in essence, that they don't really have to do anything. And you know, and why should that be? They have not been a very responsive body, especially to us in northern Cook County."

"Representative, first of all, in regard to the toll issue on which you and I agree that they have not been responsive, this House and, I believe, the Senate have passed legislation which would require that they hold hearing on the subject of tolls. We've dealt with that issue very directly. The reason for deleting the capital plan is that we do not appropriate money to the Toll Highway Authority. Local governments do not appropriate money to the Toll Highway Authority. They are, in that 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 sense, totally a creature of their bond holders, and the need for an annual capital plan is, therefore, not... not there."

"Well, if I may address the Bill. It seems to me that that's not correct. I mean that they are not creatures of their bond holders. The way that their stuff is paid for is that they're paid for by the public. We, the public, who ride the toll highways pay our thirty or forty cents, whatever it may be, every time we go through a tollgate. The bond holders don't pay those fees, the public does. As a matter of fact, the bond holders, of course, make the money on those particular highways. If ever I think we should keep in requirements that they should submit annual activity reports with the Clerk of the House, and the Secretary of the Senate and with the Illinois Economic and Fiscal Commission, I think we should do it with the Illinois Toll Highway Authority Act. I also think that we should have them prepare their annual capital budget and a three year capital needs report. It seems to me that the one agency that has been most irresponsible, and even the Sponsor of this particular Bill concedes that they don't even hold public hearings when they're going to raise toll fees, we're... we're going to let them off the hook. If ever we should not let an agency off the hook, it ought to be the Toll Highway Authority, and we should vote 'no' on this particular Bill."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Giorgi."

"Representative Vinson, does it mean that the General Assembly won't receive reports from the Tollway Commission any longer?"

"No, it means that they won't have to file them with the Secretary and Clerk." 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

June 27, 1983 "Well, let me tell the Members of the General Assembly what happened here about... a few years ago. There was an attempt to amend a tollway Bill to make the tollways freeways after the bonds were paid off on the Northwest and Tri-state Tollway. But the Bill was defeated here one day, and because of that, they built Tollway 5 which to this day hasn't justified its existence and isn't paying its share of the tollways. So now we're... the Northwest people, the Tri-state people are stuck with paying the bonds off for Tollway 5. Now they going to... they're going to attempt to build another tollway. And what you're telling me here today is that they want you not impeding their power to encumber the Tri-state to Northwest... and 5 Tollway to pay the new tollways they're going to build. What they're doing is they're shutting the door in our faces so that we have nothing to say about their operation. I think this is an atrocious Bill. I think this is an insidious and invidious Bill. It should not be let out of this House unless you're going to be paying tolls without your... You're going to be... You gave them authority to create themselves. They don't want us to... self-destruct them or destruct themselves after they've paid the tolls off. It's a very serious Bill, and what they're trying to do here is to make themselves a hierarchy within itself, and build whatever they want to and forever encumber the Northwest, Tri-state and 5-way Tollways. You better look at this Bill very carefully because they don't even want to report to us so that we can be lulled into a sense of sleepiness. It's a very, very bad Bill."

"Representative Piel."

"I move the previous question, Mr. Speaker."

"I don't think that's necessary. Representative Vinson to close." 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"Thank you, June 27, 1983 Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would move for favorable action on Senate Bill 958 because it will save the Toll Highway Authority a substantial amount of money and, in so doing, avoid further increases in the tolls. And I would just suggest that if you vote against this Bill, you're voting for higher tolls."

"Representative Vinson has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 958. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 25 'ayes', 74 'nays', 13 voting 'present'. Senate Bill 958, having failed to receive the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared lost. On page six on the Order of Short Debate appears Senate Bill 1040, Steczo. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1040, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to revise the law in relation to counties. Third Reading..."

Speaker Natijevich: "One... One moment. Representative Panayotovich, you're seeking attention? For what purpose do you rise?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question of the Chair. I noticed on the Calendar here, we do not have an ending time. And I'm just wondering, we have planned a freshman get together for this evening. It was planned once before and we had to change it because the Calendar changed. We have 31 freshman who have planned, and spent money and time for this evening, and we would like to know, if there's a possibility that the Chair... We would appreciate sometime today if the Chair would come back to us and let us know when we will adjourn because we would like to get together tonight. And I'd appreciate sometime 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 later today if the Chair would. We have our 31 Members who would like to get together, and we would like to know when we could meet. And I appreciate sometime today if you could get back to me."

"The Chair will get back to you, Representative Panayotovich. I'll check with the Speaker. I'm sure he'll try to accommodate the first termers, and as far as I'm concerned, the first termers have all been excellent Members and have done a great job. And we'll try to accommodate you, and I mean that. The Clerk will read the Bill, Senate Bill 1040. Have you read it? Representative Steczo."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Senate Bill 1040 is a Bill to allow the Board of Commissioners of Cook County to establish and maintain a hospital security police force. The necessity for this Bill stems from the fact that a few Sessions ago, this General Assembly abolished the Cook County Governing Hospital Commission and transferred its powers to the Cook County Board. What happened at that point was that all the security officers that were hospital... on the hospital security force were transferred to the county jurisdiction and made deputy sheriffs. What has happened because of that, these hospital security people have had the same rights and privileges as the deputy sheriffs, have carried their guns to and from work and have gotten into a lot of trouble. What this Bill does is to indicate that when this hospital security force is established by the Cook County Board, then those hospital security force personnel will only have jurisdiction on the hospital grounds of Oak Forest Hospital and Cook County Hospital, will not be able to take the guns home with them or abuse their powers in any way. I should mention too, Amendment... There was an Amendment added to 40  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 this Bill by Representative Saltsman which provided that the counties can make grants to not-for-profit tourism organizations. I would be glad to answer any questions Members might have with regard to Senate Bill 1040, and, if not, would move for the the passage of the Bill."

"Representative Steczo moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1040. Does anybody stand in opposition? Representative Karpiel."

"Yes, Representative, may I ask you a question? You said that the amended version of this Bill allows grants for not-for-profit organizations. The Amendment that I have says that... that under this Bill you can operate historic museums and make grants to not-for-profit tourism organizations from federal, state or any other monies available. I don't know what the big push for making grants to tourism organizations and different types of convention type organizations is this Session because we have several Bills with this type of Amendment on it. I would like to ask just why this Amendment is on it, and what is the intent behind making grants to tourism organizations, which the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs already does?"

"Representative Steczo."

"Mr. Speaker, I believe this Amendment allows the county to make those types of grants. It addresses a problem that Representative Saltsman has had, I believe, in Peoria County. I would defer to him to further respond."

"The Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Saltsman. Saltsman,"

"Yes, Representative Karpiel, I met with your staff and Sam Vinson on this. And on the Amendment, on the federal funding, as long as they were receiving that, counties were forbid to give. It's permissive legislation. It don't 41  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 mandate them to give. In our case, the Tazewell County Board used to appropriate like 1,000 dollars a year. It got to the point where they found out that it was illegal to grant this money, and therefore, it's permissive. It's not forcing any money out. If the county board wants to appropriate, their state's attorney found out where it was illegal to appropriate money from the county board for this tourism program. And that's all this small Amendment does. It allows them to, but it does not mandate anything. It just gives them permissive legislation to put the money there, and your leadership approved the Amendment."

"Well, Representative, under the present legislation, it's my understanding that counties are allowed to own and operate historical museums, and they have a specific levy for such purpose. If you are adding convention... tourism organizations, et cetera, where are you planning on having this money come out of, the general... the county general fund?"

"Yes. They can..."

"I don't..."

"... give the museums, but they did... they were not permissible to give to tourism. This allows them to give to tourist."

"Well, the way you have it all in that one particular Section of the Act, and when you're talking about historical museums, as I say, they have a specific levy for historical museums. And now, this would just be coming out of the General Fund, and you don't... you just say, 'Comes out of federal, state or any other monies available.' I..."

"County appropriations only."

"Thank you, Representative."

"The Gentleman from Dewitt, Representative 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day Vinson."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the June 27, 1983 Assembly, I, personally, have no particular problem with the Amendment that's been adopted to the Bill, but I do think that someone ought to examine the underlying Bill. What the underlying Bill does is to create a nev security police force for Cook County Hospital. Now, why is there a problem with that? Well, think about it. What's wrong with the police of the City of Chicago? What's wrong with the Cook County Sheriff's police force? Either one of those could certainly deal with law enforcement for Cook County Hospital. All this is, is a new police force to create patronage for the Chairman of the Cook County Board. I don't think we need to be doing that at a time when... when revenues are low, when people have a hard time paying their bills, when taxes are out of control. No reason to be doing that. No reason to be creating a new spacial patronage police force for this purpose, and I would urge a 'no' vote on the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would just like to remind the previous speaker that Representative McAuliffe had a fine Bill. It created a new police force just to police this new State of Illinois Building - a new police force by the Central Management Services which I supported and which you supported, and I think you should change your position and support this fine Bill, too."

"Bepresentative NcAuliffe."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would rise in support of this Bill also, for one of the reasons that Sam Vinson mentioned. The Chicago Police 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Department does not want to have the job of policing the Cook County Hospital. It's a very big building. It's about 12 or 15 stories high. It occupies a whole square block in Chicago. They'd have to add 15 or 20 policemen to the 12th police district just to go over there and take care of that hospital. So, actually, I would very much support this Bill because I don't think the City Police Department in the financial constraints of the day has enough manpower to go over there and pick up the slack where the Cook County police are... off. We train the Cook County police. I work at the Training Academy in Chicago, and we train the police officers from the Cook County and from the Forest Preserves. They come through our course. They take the same course that the Chicago Police Officers take, and I think they can handle the job and save the Chicago taxpayers some money."

"I think we've heard enough debate. Haven't we? Representative Steczo to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to address one point. These security people are already employees of Cook County; however, periodically, we all pick up the newspapers and find out that a deputy sheriff, and these people are classified as deputy sheriffs, have abused their powers in some way and have taken their guns, which they can have right now to and from work, and have created all sorts of problems. With this hospital security force, these people will have to stay on grounds, have... have authority only within the grounds of Oak Forest Hospital and Cook County Hospital and have to leave their guns at work. So by passing this Bill, we are probably curing a lot of abuses that we've heard about, and I think it's a good Bill and would urge its adoption."

"Representative Steczo has moved for the 44  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 passage of Senate Bill 1040. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Representative Ropp, a minute to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. I think you might be interested in knowing that the original Bill of this dealt with Canadian thistles, and if you know what a Canadian thistle is, it's a noxious weed. And I guess that's about what this Bill is, kind of a noxious Bill. That's why I vote 'no'."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 71 'ayes', 36 'nays', 6 voting 'present', and Senate Bill 1040, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. You may have talked too soon. Your Bill is next, Representative Ropp. Senate Bill 1050 (sic - 1054), Ropp - Hicks. The Clerk will read the Bill. Page 10 of the Calendar."

"Senate Bill 1054, a Bill for an Act concerning the State Fair and county fairs. Third Reading of the Bill."

"You always have to look a few Bills ahead, Representative Ropp. The Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."

"I thought maybe you'd let Representative Hicks handle this."

"He may have to close."

"He may have to help me. Okay. This is a Bill that actually makes some modifications in the current statute dealing with rules and regulations. We passed an Amendment just yesterday, Amendment #3 to this Bill, that states that the rules for setting the fees for entrance into the fairgrounds and for cancellation of contracts would go through the Administrative Procedures Act, but that the 45  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 actual operation and the printing of the state fair catalog dealing with premiums and prizes would be set by regulation but would not necessarily have to go through the Administrative Procedures Act. It also states that there will be a provision that deals with any excess monies that would be left over from the Rehabilitation Funds for County Fairs where those county fairs had exceeded 8... $19,000 for expenditures would be reimbursed at a prorated basis no more that 50 percent of that amount, and if you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to answer them."

"Representative Ropp has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1054. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will. Proceed."

"Representative Ropp, does this Bill transfer the authority for the Land of Lincoln Breeders Awards from the State Fair Agency to the Department of Agriculture?"

"The State Fair has historically been doing that, and now, since the State Fair is under the jurisdiction of the Department of Agriculture, that authority was granted to the Department. Correct."

"So, the answer is yes, I take it."

"Yes."

"And does this Bill authorize an annual appropriation from the Agricultural Premium Fund for such awards?"

"Well, that's understood. It doesn't give the amount, but it does through the authorization that we've granted many, many years ago, and the Land of Lincoln statute was passed, does give that authority."

"How much do these awards normally cost?"

"Whatever is established by the Department through the Land of Lincoln Breeders Association." 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"And you don't know the history of how much that cost?"

"No, I don't have it right before me."

"Where does the money for the Agricultural Premium Fund come from?"

"It comes from those race tracks in Chicago that are provided from race... from the horses that are bred and owned downstate Illinois."

"Well, I personally think that the people in Chicago would bet on rats or rabbits. They don't care about... too much about what's running out there and what they can bet on."

"I guess you know your people better than I."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative John Vitek,"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Notwithstanding your remarks, Mr. Speaker, I'm heartily in support of this Bill. This was my original Amendment that I dropped and let Yourell and Ropp work it out, so I'm heartily in support of this Bill. I hope everybody votes an 'aye'."

"I'll be for it, too, John. There being no... nobody else seeking recognition, Representative Ropp has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1054. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed, by voting 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 112 'ayes', 1 'nay', 1 'present'. Senate Bill 1054, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1119 appears on page 10 of your Calendar. Davis. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1119, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Highway Code. Third Reading of the Bill." 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Representative Klemm, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"As a hyphenated Cosponsor, may I present the Bill?"

"You... "

"Representative Davis is off the floor, and I am handling the Bill, if that's... "

"Is he... Yes, proceed."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"Did you read the Bill, Clerk? Alright. Proceed."

"Senate Bill 1119 prohibits a person or firm or corporation or an institution from removing ice and snow and depositing it upon a public highway or along the shoulder or edge of a public highway. The violation is punishable as a petty offense, and it does not apply to residential property. As many of us know, the attempt here is to curtail some of the increased incidents where the private subdivision or private shopping centers and service stations and commercial establishments are pushing all their snow and leaving it right on the streets and highways, and we have have a lot of problems with IDOT and the municipalities of trying to clean it up. Also, the Bill would allow counties, townships and municipalities to use their Motor Fuel Tax funds to assist in improvements of non-dedicated subdivision roads, provided they meet certain requirements. This Amendment was added because the statutes only allowed those people to use Motor Fuel Tax funds that had been incurred and received from the Act of 1979, and I'll be delighted to answer any questions. Otherwise, I move for its adoption."

"Representative Klemm has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1119. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz." 48  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983

"Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will. Proceed."

"Was Amendment 1 adopted?"

"Let me check. Just a moment. Oh, yes. I... Thank you for calling my attention. I didn't explain Amendment #1."

"You didn't... You didn't mention that. I want to get back to your original Bill, but could you explain also Amendment 1, which has been adopted to the Bill?"

"You're right. Thank you very much. I was explaining Senate Amendment #1. House Amendment #1 authorized a demonstration project in relation to road and curb constructions. I don't know much more about it."

"What would... What would we learn from that?"

"Well, apparently, the Department of Transportation has projects that they wish to study to see if we can eliminate some of the costs for road and curb construction, and this would authorize them to at least do a test project."

"Amendment 3 was adopted. Is that correct?"

"House Amendment 3, yes."

"And, would we expend any state funds under Amendment #3?"

"No, we would not. It is permissive language."

"Back to, then, the original Bill. You make this for, I guess, someone that's in the snowplowing business, a petty offense? Is that correct?"

"Yes, that's correct."

"How much snow would they have to push out there on a... on the road out of one of those parking lots that you talk about?"

"I don't think the amount is defined in the Bill, but I would assume the law enforcing officers of the municipality or whoever's affected by it would have to make those 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day determinations." Leverenz:

June 27, 1983 "Well, you can hit the... the gutter and shake snow off a blade or off the undercarriage of a vehicle and you drop' snow out there. You didn't do it on purpose. Would that be covered?" "I would think there'd be reasonableness in trying to dump a great deal of snow that ends up obstructing traffic or parking. I think that would be probably found in violation, but I think some of the snow that may fall off a blade would certainly not be considered. I do have some faith and trust in my municipal leaders and officials, and I just think they would use common sense on that." Leverenz:

"Well, if you're familiar with the municipal position on this, isn't it true that a number of municipalities have recently begun licensing those in the snowplowing business so that they have some control over that which you exempt in the Bill? The residential streets? Why would you want to exclude them? "Exclude who?"

"It excludes residential driveways Klemm: or sidewalks. You're saying then, you can push all of the snow from a driveway of a property into the street, but you cannot do the same thing from a parking lot. Why?" "Well, I think the amount of snow. It's relative, and I think probably a small sidewalk is... they certainly don't want to have the police harassing some of our residents and everything else because of it. But when you start looking at large shopping centers where you're talking about acres upon acres of snow being pushed out there and having to remove that at the cost of the taxpayers, I'd say it certainly becomes ridiculous, and obviously, trying to accommodate some of the smaller sidewalks and that that they tried to eliminate the need and concern of homeowners 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day in residential streets of causing that problem and being subject under this Act."

"You make it a petty offense. How many days in jail could you sit on a petty offense?" June 27, 1983

"I don't know. It's just a fine only, in this case."

"It is not... A petty offense is not a fine only. Speaker, to the Bill."

"Proceed."

"There's no doubt in my mind, and I may have a conflict of interest because I push a little snow, but I can tell you that if I run the snow out of a driveway, you'll find that I'll put enough snow on a residential street or a state street or a county road that I will stop all that traffic. I do, indeed, think the Bill is in that situation flawed, and you either should cover everybody or leave everybody alone. I, myself, will vote my conscience. Thank you."

"The Lady from Marshall, Representative Koehler."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Would the Sponsor yield to a question, please?"

"Proceed."

"Oh, thank you. Representative Klemm, I have been reading House Amendment #3, and I am sorry. I... I do not understand the... how this might work. Would you please explain to me about how it talks about increases in allocation of funds under the Motor Fuel Tax so that it might be expended on non-dedicated subdivision roads? Can you explain that to me, how it might change the current practice, please?"

"Well, the current practice allows that now, but the law was adopted saying that only the Motor Fuel Tax funds that were appropriated through the Transportation Finance and 51  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Administration Act of 1979 could be used, and that's when it added additional funds. We haven't added any new Motor Fuel Tax funds since that time. So, inadvertently, the law would have prevented any new Motor Fuel Tax funds that would possibly be adopted by this General Assembly to be able to be used, so it would have curtailed local governments from using some of their funds but not all of their funds. What this simply does, is say that their Motor Fuel Tax funds, whether it had been accumulated, or at least had been received because of the Act we took in 1979, or, in fact, the Act of 1983 if we do adopt it. It allows them to use all their Motor Fuel Tax funds and not just segments, as we appropriated... or as we allocated through legislation."

"Well, this would apply, then, if there are new Motor Fuel Tax funds, is that correct?"

"That's why it's in here, so we're talking about possibly new allocations."

"Well, does this allow tax money to be spent on any roads that are still owned by the developer and not yet taken jurisdiction by the county or the municipality?"

"This only applies to those subdivisions that were platted prior to 1959, so we are talking about the very old ones. They are not owned by a private developer. They are just platted as private, non-dedicated roads. The law is currently allowing municipal... or, allowing townships and counties to work together with those people to do some sharing, and they have to do some contributions before they would use those funds to try to assist them to bring them into the proper road system."

"Well, now, I am getting conflicting information, here. A person on one side of the room is saying it would allow taxpayer money to be spent on private projects, but it is 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 your contention that it will not allow taxpayer money to be spent on roads that are not owned by the state, local or... or local governments."

"The whole purpose of using the state taxpayers dollars, if you will, and the contributions and the cooperative efforts by the subdivision is ta bring them into the township or city or county road system and no longer have these private non-dedicated roads. This is the attempt to work for state government, working jointly, hand-in-hand with local subdivisions that were platted years ago. See, the law in '59 doesn't allow you to do private, non-dedicated subdivision roads any longer in county and township government. So, we're trying to bring the old ones of 25-30 years ago up to the 20th century and conform to our existing laws now."

"Well, I thought it was the intent, though, that the developer bring those up."

"Since 1959, yes, but before that, we didn't have laws to require them to bring them up. Eut we have subdivisions that were platted in 1920 that they did not bring them up, and they're still there with hundreds of homes in a... "

"So, this only applies to roads before 1959."

"Could we start to bring this dialogue to a close? We've got a lot of Bills today."

"Absolutely... That's the current law. Only prior to '59." subdivision roads any longer in county and township government. So, we're trying to bring the old ones of 25-30 years ago up to the 20th century and conform to our existing laws now."

"Well, I thought it was the intent, though, that the developer bring those up."

"Since 1959, yes, but before that, we didn't have laws to require them to bring them up. But ve have subdivisions 53  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 that were platted in 1920 that they did not bring them up, and they're still there with hundreds of homes in a... "

"So, this only applies to roads before 1959."

"Could we start to bring this dialogue to a close? We've got a lot of Bills today."

"Absolutely... That's the current law. Only prior to '59."

"Thank you. Thank you."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Braun."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Proceed."

"Representative Klemm, I'm just... all I have is the printout of this Amendment, and so I haven't been able to cross reference the actual Sections, but House Amendment 3, the last line, says 'makes the same provisions applicable to municipalities as are applicable to counties and townships'. Is there a difference now, and if there is, what change does this effect?"

"Well, counties and townships, the existing law allows them to participate if they wish to. It's a voluntary program to try to assist subdivisions that have been platted prior to 1959, to bring the roads up to standards. There are many subdivisions that have been platted prior to '59 that, in fact, have been incorporated into municipalities, and currently, municipalities were not able to use any of their share of their Motor Fuel Tax funds to help fix these roads up. This law would at least simply give the municipalities that same option if they wish to use it, to use those funds to help join with some of the subdivisions to bring them up. And also, it's important, I think, because of pre-annexation or annexations that may be forthcoming that may no longer, or at least not presently are in the city limits, but may be, within a few 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 years because of annexation. They might want to also assist to try to get their roads up to the standards that would be, you know, for the residents, and that would, at least now, give counties, townships and municipalities that same tool to work with. It is voluntary. It is permissive. So, again, it just gives them an extra one to help their people."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Robert Piel."

"I move the previous question, Mr. Speaker."

"Representative Piel moves the previous question. The question is, "Shall the main question be put?' Those in favor say 'aye', those opposed say "no". The main question is put. Representative Klemm to close."

"Well, I think the changes certainly are safeguards. We certainly have problems with the removal of large snow... trying to add costs to the municipalities of that, and irrespective of those who may be in the business and feel they aren't dumping it on private... or on highways, it is being done. I think it's needed. The Amendments that we've added, I think, are good government. I'd just ask for your favorable vote."

"Representative Klemm moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1119. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed by voting "no". Have all voted? Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 71 'ayes', 27 'nays', 15 voting 'present', and Senate Bill 1119, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1122 appears on page 10 of your Calendar. O'Connell. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1122, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Highway Code. Third Reading of the Bill." 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

O'Connell."

"Mr. "The June 27, 1983 Gentleman from Cook, Representative Speaker, Members of the House, may I have leave at this time to bring House Bill... Senate Bill 1122 back to Second Reading for purposes of one Amendment?"

"The Gentleman asks leave to return Senate Bill 1122 back to the Order of Second Reading for the purpose of an Amendment. Does he have... any objections? None? The Bill is on Second Reading. Amendments from the Clerk?"

"Amendment #1 was tabled in Committee."

"Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1, O'Connell."

"Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like leave of the House to amend Floor Amendment #1 to read, on its face, "Amendment #2"."

"Leave to amend Amendment #1 on its face to read in its place, "Amendment #2". No objection? Leave is granted."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Amendment #2 permits that highway commissioners in townships having a township government or a township organization may certify to... may certify as to the amount of revenue needed to determine the tax levy. Presently, only highway commissioners in counties not having township organization are entitled to this. This Amendment would permit highway commissioners in counties having township organizations to have the same powers. It simply recognizes the expertise inherent in the highway commissioners' role."

"Representative O'Connell has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2. On that, the Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson." 56  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Representative O'Connell, I'm looking at Amendment #1, which indicates that that Amendment would allow a highway commissioner to determine their own tax levy, and the board of trustees merely certifies the levy to the county clerk. You're no longer trying to do that now, with Amendment #2. Is that right?"

"Representative, Amendment #2 is... is... Oh, that's correct. Amendment #1 was tabled in Committee. Amendment... Floor Amendment #1 was amended on its face to be Amendment #2. That addresses the authority of the highway commissioner to certify to the county board as to the amount of funds needed to determine a tax levy."

"Thank you. Being no further discussion, Representative O'Connell moves for the adoption of Amendment #2. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed, *nay", and Amendment #2 is adopted. Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading, and the Gentleman asks leave for the immediate consideration of Senate Bill 1122. Does he have leave? Leave. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1122, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Highway Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative O'Connell, on Senate Bill 1122."

"Mr... Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. What Amendment ... Senate Bill 1122 does now, in addition to allowing the highway commissioner to certify as to the amount of the tax levy, it also addresses a important issue that has arisen since the adoption of the Consolidated Election Laws. It is presently not clear as to when there is a need to increase the tax levy for roads as to whether this can be done at... only at the annual town meeting. 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 What Amendment... Senate Bill 1122 does, then, is to permit, with proper notice as outlined in law for annual meetings, per... allows the township to call a special meeting for purposes of considering an increase in the tax levy for roads. It... It simply addresses a situation wherein the emergencies may arise wherein the township would have to wait until the annual meeting which may be months at that time. This, with proper notice, would allow that a special meeting may be called for this purpose."

"Representative O'Connell has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1122. On that, the Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He will. Proceed."

"On the notification provision, Representative. Is there a notification provision for a referendum by those individuals attending the annual or the special township meeting? I believe, under the current law, there's provisions for a ballot to be presented to those in attendance, because it is an open meeting, and it's normally the only one of... the regular annual meeting is the only one that is really attended by most of the individual citizens. And, if I remember correctly, there used to be a provision that individuals could at least vote, and there was to be advertisement if, in fact, a road tax was to be increased. Is that still in the Bill, or does this provision allowing them to take action eliminate that provision?"

"My understanding of the Bill is that the only thing that is different, including the referendum procedures, is that you can call it - in addition to the annual meeting you can call it at a special meeting, with the proper notice." 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"May I speak, then, to the Bill? what you're road taxes June 27, 1983 John, I understand trying to do. The problem that occurs with under the road commissioners of township government is that, in fact, not many people at all ever attend the township meeting. The road tax, which is basically the tax used to purchase gravel in the country areas, is by and large borne by the urban individuals who live in that township who receive virtually no benefit for that initial increase. It has always been the posture of most of us involved in township government that road fund increases should always be notified, allowed to have a vote on that given annual day, and it should not be a provision only by the township officials making that determination. The reason for the annual meeting is the fact that that meeting must authorize and sign off on the levy and the rate that each township will receive for their upcoming fiscal year. At that same time, they must publish the revenue sharing program by which they will be spending federal and state money in that regard. I'm not certain whether this legislation will remove those provisions, but it seems to me that the notice and the annual meeting would be the place to have any increase in the road tax funds, and for that reason, I recommend a 'present' vote until we can find out how it works, John."

"The Gentleman... The Gentleman from Knox, Representative McMaster."

"I don't really think I have a question on this, but we have a Bill that we passed out of here and has gone over to the Senate and is coming back to us, I believe, that in order to vote on any referendum to increase taxes at the township meeting, that there must be a petition signed by 10 percent of the registered voters in that township, to bring that referendum before the town meeting. I 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 personally feel that this is a better Bill, the one that we are coming back with on the 10 percent of the registered voters."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Yourell."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in support of this legislation, since all it really does is extend to another meeting, at which time the town electors can appear after proper notice in newspapers and so forth and proper publicity, that they can do what they can already... are already authorized to do at an annual town meeting. The annual town meeting is held in the spring, generally in April, second Tuesday, I think, in April, and there may be problems that develop after that time, and all the Gentleman's trying to do is add another meeting at which this action can be taken, and that has always been known as a special town meeting, and I think this is good legislation and should be voted for."

"Representative O'Connell to close."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. I think there's some misunderstanding as to exactly what this does. There still is the petition requirements that exist in the current law, before you can have the special meeting called for that purpose alone. It does not change that... There is no increases in... in taxes without a referendum, as has been expressed by some Members of the other side. All it does is provide for an additional meeting... additional meeting called for the purpose, exclusively, of addressing the road tax conditions. It requires that on the petition of 25 legal voters of any road district, to the district clerk, just as existing law requires. In addition, I would point out that this would make it even more clear as to what the meeting is all about, because it 60  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 would be called exclusively for the purposes of the road taxes. I would submit that this is simply a matter of convenience."

"Representative Cullerton (sic O'Connell) moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1122. Those in favor signify by voting aye", those opposed, by voting 'no". Have all voted? Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 76 'ayes', 27 nays', 6 answering present, and Senate Bill 1122, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1153 appears on page 10 of your Calendar. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1153, a Bill for an Act to amend the Court Reporters' Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Taylor yields to Representative Cullerton on Senate Eill 1153."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill, after all of the Amendments that have been adopted, provides for new Judges in the following areas: Seven in Cook County two would be outside the City of Chicago's limits; DuPage County would receive two additional Judges; the Fifth Judicial District would receive two Judicial Judges; there would be a minute clerk with a salary of $7,500 in certain counties with a certain population - I believe it's Champaign and Rock Island. There... The name of the... each Judicial Circuit Judge's administrative secretary will be named to an administrative assistant, and the cap on the salary would be raised; the chief... the court reporters' cap on their salary would also be a raise, and I just would point out that we statutorily determine how much the maximum salary can be. This raises the cap but does not appropriate the money, so that's a decision that's postponed until a later date. I 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 would be happy to answer any questions and ask for your support of the Bill."

"Representative Cullerton moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1153. The Gentleman from Macon, Representative Dunn, John Dunn." Dunn, J.: "Will the Sponsor explain what Amendment 10 does?"

"He indicates he will. Proceed. Representative Dunn?"

"Yes. Amendment #10 was inadvertently left off Amendment #8, and it adds two Judges to the Fifth Judicial District. I would also point out that I forgot to mention, with your permission, Representative Dunn, Amendment #9 provided for a new law clerk for each Supreme Court Justice." Dunn, J.: "Thank you."

"Thank you for that. The Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite."

"Will the Sponsor yield for a question, please?"

"He indicates he will. Proceed."

"Representative Cullerton, I believe you mentioned Champaign County as one of the counties that would benefit in some way from an Amendment on this Bill. Is that to implement the new Judge that was provided for earlier, or are we providing for another Judge?"

"No. No. It has to do with a minute clerk, which are employees of the circuit court clerk's office, who assist judges in maintaining dockets and recording the court orders. It adds a minute... It adds a minute clerk."

"But, is this... Is this clerk to work with that new Judge that was approved by legislation last Session?"

"That, I don't know."

"Who is funding the added staff? Will it be paid at the county or at the state?" 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"State level."

"At the state level."

"Right."

"Thank you."

"Representative June 27, 1983 Cullerton has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1153. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed, by voting no. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 87 ayes", 26 *nays", 1 answering "present", and Senate Bill 1153, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Page 6 of your Calendar, under Short Debate, appears Senate Bill 1199, Klemm. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1199, a Bill for an Act to create the Chain-o-Lakes - Fox River Waterway Management Agency. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from McHenry, Representative Klemm, on Senate Bill 1199."

"Thank you... Thank you, Иг. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1199 would create the Chain-o-Lakes - Fox River Waterway Management Agency Act. It establishes, through a referendus and approval of the voters of two counties, Lake and Nchenry Counties, in this case, an agency which would be controlled by a board consisting of six members, three elected from each county, and a chairman, and these people would be required to try to work to improve and maintain the Chain-o-Lakes - Fox River Waterway. It provides that the agency may charge reasonable users' fees for recreational boating and commercial use of the waterway, and also, we've added a sunset provision to repeal it in 1994. The Chain-o-Lakes, I was told, is the first or second busiest locks in McHenry 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 in the United States, of boating, and certainly, this has experienced a great deal of growing pollution and flooding problems in that area. And because the waterway stretches between two counties, it's always been difficult for jurisdiction or even funding cooperation efforts to try to solve the problems down there. The Chain-o-Lakes - Fox River Study Commission has been working on this proposal for the last four years and has bipartisan support. It is a referendum Act, and I do ask for your support and would be delighted to answer any of your questions."

"Representative Klemm has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1199. Does anybody stand in opposition? Seeing none, the question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1199 pass?' Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed, by voting 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 114 'ayes', 3 'nays', and Senate Bill 1199, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 11 of the Calendar, appears Senate Bill 1211, Cullerton. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1211."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Mr. Speaker, at the request of the Minority Leader, I would ask that this be taken out of the record for a short while until he can be on the floor."

"Leave to take this out of the record and return to it before we complete this Order of Business. Leave. Senate Bill 1222 is on page 11 of your Calendar. Cullerton. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1222, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill." 64  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill as amended clarifies the legislative intent of Section 24-12 and 34-85 of the School Code as to the authority of school boards to suspend teachers. Suspension... Suspension is to apply only in relation to dismissal procedures. This clarification is necessary due to some school boards attempting to expand their suspension authority by local policy changes rather than by legislative action. I would move for the passage of this Bill."

"Representative Cullerton has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1222. The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hoffman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I'm trying to get the attention of the Sponsor, here."

"Proceed."

"On the basis of our discussion in regard to this Bill yesterday, assuming that everything which we talked about yesterday is still in place, I rise in support of this legislation and encourage your 'aye vote." Cullerton; "I appreciate your support and appreciate your vote."

"Representative Brummer."

"Yes. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will. Proceed."

"The synopsis indicates that the first part of the Bill increased the penalty from a Class IV felony to a Class III felony for a board... school board member being engaged in a conflict of interest. Is that still part of the Bill?"

"Yes, it is, but I understand that the Senate Sponsor of the Bill does not like my Amendment, and it will 65  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 73rd Legislative Day probably go to a Conference Committee, and that's going to come off in the Conference Committee."

"So, the original substance of the Bill will come off in Conference Committee?"

"That's correct."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz."

"Could we ask a little order from the Speaker? There's a growing noise on the left side."

"Representative Cullerton to close."

"I would just move for the adoption of the Bill."

"Representative Cullerton moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1222. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed, by voting "no". Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The... The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 93 'ayes', 23 'nays', and Senate Bill 1222, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Leave to return... Are you ready to return... I thought I saw Sam Vinson back on the floor. Now he's gone again. Okay, we'll... Oh. I guess... Are you ready with 1220... 1211, John? He's here. Alright. 12... Senate Bill 1211. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1211... 11

"Oh, I thought you meant... I thought you said Sam Vinson. Alright. Oh, the real Minority Leader. Alright. Senate Bill 1226, Currie - Rice, is on page 11. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1226, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Currie."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Senate Bill 1226 is the Katy Beckett Bill. Katy Beckett, if you 66  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 remember, was the little girl in a hospital long term care facility because she had continuing problems after an early attack of encephalitis. Her parents wanted her to be at home, where they could care for her themselves and where they could enjoy her company and give her tenderness and all those things that are lacking in an institutional setting. Unfortunately, they were not able to do that and still maintain her Medicaid benefits. Present Reagan intervened. He said Katy Beckett ought to be able to stay at home at a cost less to the taxpayers and at great comfort and security to herself and to her family. President Reagan did intervene, and the Medicaid payments continued. Katy Beckett is still at home. Passage of Senate Bill 1226 would enable the Katy Becketts in the State of Illinois to be at home where they can be cared for with their parents, with their friends, with their families, at a cost that ultimately will be lower to the taxpayer than keeping those children in institutions and will certainly make for greater happiness and contentment for themselves. Senate Bill 1226 is... is a Bill that is not opposed by the Department of Public Aid. I hope that the people in this Assembly will have the kind of compassion and care for children like Katy Beckett, the same kind of compassion and care President Reagan showed that particular child. I urge your support for Senate Bill 1226."

"Representative Currie moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1226, Representative Brummer."

"Yes. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes. Proceed."

"Do you have any estimate of how many Katy Becketts or whatever her name was are... exist in Illinois that this Bill would be applicable to?" 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"I don't know the actual number, Representative Brummer. I'm sure it varies from one time to the next. Presently, the Department is trying to help those children who request the support by asking waivers from the Federal Health and Human Service Department."

"Do you have any estimate?"

"No. The cost to the Department, certainly the cost to the Public Aid Department in the State of Illinois will not be increased if Senate Bill 1226 is adopted."

"Well, are there criteria set forth in the Bill, undoubtedly, with regard to when these benefits will be provided in a home setting?"

"Yes, there are."

"And what are those criteria?"

"First... First of all, the criteria is that the child be financially eligible for Medicaid. Secondly, that the kind of care the child needs is the kind that can be provided for at home. Medical decisions about what kind of program... what kind of therapy program is appropriate are a part of the eligibility requirements, too. Yeah, in addition, the cost must be no more than that that would be at stake if the care were provided in an institution."

"Representative Vinson, the Gentleman from Vinson: DeWitt." "Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the chamber, I rise in support of the Lady's Bill. It is a fine Bill. In some cases, the Republican analysis may be wrong on the Bill. I believe at one point they indicated that the Governor was in opposition to the Bill, and that is no longer the case. The Bill was amended in the Senate, and there is no opposition from the Governor of the Department of Public Aid to the Bill, and I would urge an 'aye' vote for it."

"The Gentleman from Mclean, Representative 68  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day Ropp."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

June 27, 1983 Would the Sponsor yield?" "She will. Proceed."

"I think this is a good Bill, My question is, in our analysis, it said 18 years of age. Is there anything that would prohibit people being older, just people in general who need this same kind of care, to receive assistance at home rather than staying in the hospital?"

"I believe there are other programs, the In-Home Care Program, for example, operated through the Department on Aging. This refers specifically to Medicaid for children who establish the financial eligibility criterion."

"Okay, good enough. Thank you."

"Representative Currie moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1226. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye", opposed, by voting no. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 117 'ayes and no 'nays", and Senate Bill 1226, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1264, Hawkinson NcCracken, is on page 11. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1264, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Controlled Substance Act in the Unified Code of Corrections. Third Reading of the Eill."

"Before ме get to that, Representative Ewing's light is on, and he's not in his chair. I don't... Alright. The Gentleman from Knox, Representative Hawkinson." Pirst thing it does is prescribed drugs under the

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker. Senate Bill 1264 basically does three things as amended. delete the exemption for look-alike drug legislation. The purpose of that provision is because some prescription drugs are sold as look-alike 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 drugs, in particular, the drug Procaine is passed off as cocaine. The second thing this Bill does is to reclassify Methaqualone, which are qualudes. There have been stories that you've probably read about the abuse of gualude prescriptions. This would change qualudes from a schedule 2 to a schedule 1 drug, which would allow prescription... use only for experimental purposes. The third thing the Bill does is amend, but it was an Agreed Amendment yesterday, which would make this statute constitutional by reducing the penalty for possession of certain drugs to a penalty as a Class I felony, which would be probationable, which is equal to the present penalty for manufacture and delivery. The purpose of this is to make the statute constitutional and enforceable. I would urge an 'aye' vote."

"Representative Hawkinson has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1264. There being no discussion, the question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1264 pass?" Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed, by voting 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 117 'ayes' and no 'nays', and Senate Bill 1264, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Page 11 of your Calendar, Senate Bill 1272, Ronan - Koehler. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 12... "

"One Moment. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Panayotovich, for what purpose are you seeking..."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. Thank you. I hate to ask again, but the 31 freshman Representatives have been bothering me for quite a while wanting to know if you have an idea when we might be adjourning, and we have to make 70  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 our plans for this evening, and I know that we have a very heavy day ahead of us, but we do have 31 Members here who are interested, and if you could kindly get back to us as soon as possible to let us know when we're going to get out."

"You're getting to be the Kulas of the group, here. That was his job. Be used to always ask the Speaker, but the Chair will attempt... we have not... I have not yet received word. I'm sure, as I said, the Speaker will make every attempt to accommodate. And let's try to get our work done, also. The Gentleman... Have you read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Not yet."

"Read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1272, a Bill for an Act to amend the State's Attorney's Appellate Commission Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Ronan, on Senate Bill 1272."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Senate Bill 1272 amends... amends the State's Attorney's Appellate Service Commission Act. It allows a commission of investigators to provide investigative services in criminal and tax objection cases. It allows the commission director to authorize its investigators to carry weapons. As you're all aware, the State's Attorney's Appellate Service Commission represents all the downstate counties. These investigators go in on drug cases and very serious matters, and the executive director feels this is an important need for his commission. I move for the adoption."

"Representative Ronan moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1272. There being no discussion, the question is, Shall Senate Bill 1272 pass? Those in favor 71  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 signify by... One moment. Representative Brummer, your light just turned on. What... "

"Yes. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Proceed."

"Why does the State's Attorney's Appellate Service Commission need investigators that carry guns with regard to tax objection cases?"

"It's for both."

"Well, why do they need investigators with regard to tax objection cases in the first place?"

"It's authorized by statute. You voted for it."

"Now, what does this Bill do, then? I thought this Bill authorized the hiring of investigators for criminal and tax investigation cases. They're tax... "

"They already got the investigators. These investigators have been working for the last three years. It's found that they go in on some very serious cases, including drug related matters, and this will give them an opportunity to be armed, just like any other peace officer."

"The Bill authorizes the arming and the right to carry guns of those investigators?"

"That's correct."

"Thank you."

"Representative Ronan moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1272. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed, by voting 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 90... 89 'ayes*... 90 'ayes', 16 'nays', 5 voting 'present', and Senate Bill 1272, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Page 11 of your Calendar. Senate Bill 1274, Mays - Flinn. The Gentleman... Read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1274, a Bill for an Act to amend the 72  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 Illinois Vehicle Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Adams, Representative Mays, on Senate Bill 1274."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1274, sponsored jointly by Representative Flinn and myself, waives the fourth quarter fees for all newly acquired second division vehicles registering during the last month of the registration period, and it also extends permanently the system of the quarterly prorated registration fees for Illinois-based trucks. I urge your support in passage of this Bill, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have."

"Representative Mays moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1274. On that, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative O'Connell."

"Could you just repeat the last two sentences you had regarding a... "

"Yes. It extends permanently the system of quarterly prorated registration fees for Illinois-based trucks. This provision was done first in 1979, sunsetted in '81. It was extended again for two years in '81, and what we're doing is lifting the repealer date off of it."

"What's the revenue impact on this?"

"On that provision, Illinois truck registration fees decreased according to the 1980 numbers by $647,000. Revenue from out-of-state trucks, however, increased by $625,000, so it was a net loss of $21,000, and that's the only base year I have to cite."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz."

"I just want to stand in support of the Bill. It basically takes care of small operators, a pickup truck owner, a small business or proprietorship, and it is 73  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 something the Secretary of State feels that it will bring a proper amount of relief. It's probably no impact to the state. Just make processing a little easier. Vote green."

"Representative Mays moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1274. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye", those opposed, by voting 'no". Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 114 'ayes", no 'nays, and Senate Bill 1274, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Giorgi - Matijevich, 'aye". Page 11 of your Calendar, appears 13... Senate Bill 1311, Greiman. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1311, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to income tax deductions to businesses. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Greiman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 1311 is a Bill which assists in developing in both rural and urban areas neighborhood organizations that will help, subject to approval of the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs, in a variety of areas where it's important that we pass... that we take away from government all the responsibility, that ve pass on to the people the concept that people have to help themselves. This Bill allows a deduction, a extraordinary... deduction for companies that provide... or, that make contributions to very limited certified organizations... community organizations. And the Bill passed the House and Senate previously when it was a credit, a tax credit, and the Governor vetoed it when it was a credit and suggested that if it were a deduction, it would... it would be more in line with his beliefs. The cost will not be great, but if this should catch on, there 74  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 are caps, so that corporations cannot abuse it, and accordingly, the cost is most limited. I ask for approval."

"Representative Greiman moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1311. The Lady from Cook, Representative Topinka."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is a fine Bill, I think, and I rise in support of it. It's a good business Bill. It puts the power where it ought to be, which is right down to the corporate level with the concurrence of DCCA. I think the controls are built into this to make sure it's not abused, and I would urge its passage."

"The Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite."

"Will the Sponsor yield for a question, please?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Grieman, would these contributions not already be deductions under the Federal Income Tax Law?"

"One of the criteria for a... a community organization is that they have a federal tax exempt status, so that this provides an extraordinary deduction for this... in order to encourage those kinds of deductions."

"But if we were already giving a federal income tax deduction for this contribution, would not, then, the adjusted income for state purposes already have taken that deduction?"

"It will taken... It would have been considered in their original return to get to adjusted gross income, but that's the purpose of it, is to give it this additional impetus, and that's why there are caps on it, to hold down the amount that might be contributed." 75  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"So, we'll end up with them getting double exemptions?"

"That's what it provides. It mirrors the enterprise zone. It is a mirror of... of how we have set up the enterprise zones... deduction."

"Well, to the Bill, then, Mr. Speaker..."

"Proceed."

" ... and Members of the House. It seems to me that until we have some idea whether we are really going to get an income tax increase, it is foolhardy of us to be giving additional deductions, particularly when those give sort of double tax breaks on the same item of contribution to a community organization. I feel that we are not in a position at this time to give those additional tax breaks, and I would urge a 'no' vote."

"The Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich."

"Would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Doesn't this set up a tax differential which kind of complicates our tax structure? In other words, you can do it in East St. Louis. I can't do it in Centralia, and you can do it in some other town if some bureau decides it's right. I think you're creating a whole problem, here, and I just want to know why, if you can do it in East St. Louis or some other place, I can't do it in Centralia."

"You can do this... You can do this in Centralia. It's set up..."

"Only if I meet the criteria that some bureaucracy sets up."

"Well, you know, the statute sets up specifically that it can be done in... in small communities, very small municipalities, less than 10,000, in rural populations. It 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 could be done in Marion, your county, it could be done in Centralia. It could be done in a lot of places, and more and more, people are helping themselves and not looking to government, and this really the way that we can do that."

"We can do it in Centralia if we meet the unemployment standards and a few more things, right? We can't necessarily do it. It just depends on whether we meet the criteria that you've set up in the Bill."

"Well, you know, if you have a quarrel with the criteria, that's a different story. The criteria is really limited, because nobody wants there to be any abuse. It requires residence in the area, elected board directors, federal tax exemption and a not-for-profit corporation status. Those are all very precise criteria that are limited in their scope."

"Well, to the Bill. We're creating another board which is going to decide on some things. We're creating another thing which is a little bit socialistic in nature, and I think we've gone too far."

"Representative Brummer."

"Yes. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He will. Proceed."

"Now, this is not... does not grant a deduction to... for Illinois income tax for any charitable contribution, then, for any charity that has a charitable exemption under the IRS code? It's only certain limited community groups?"

"You... Well, you would have to... One of the things... I'd say yes and no. You must have a tax exempt status..."

"But, simply because you have a tax exempt status does not mean that you qualify for the deduction."

"But you may not be... You may not be a... need not be a charitable deduction in the cther sense. It's for businesses, so it would not be." 77  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Okay. In order to qualify under this, you would have to have a... be in an area... the community group would have to serve an area that had a high percentage of public assistance dependency or their median income would be not more than 75 percent of the state's median income, or have a deteriorated fiscal environment, and it would have to meet two of those three critera, right?"

"That's right. That's the standard."

"So, there would be only a very few areas... number of areas in the State where contributions would be... would qualify for this special deduction, then."

"I don't... No, I don't think so at all. I think there would be a lot of them."

"Well, they would have to be two of those three criteria."

"Yes, and I think that..."

"Okay."

"Well, you asked me a question, Mr. Brummer, and the answer is that there would be many, many places where a deteriorated fiscal environment would exist, whether it would be a median income less that 75 percent of the state's income. Absolutely."

"Okay. Is this applicable with regard to individuals as well as businesses?"

"As I understand it, it is ... taxpayers generally, yes." Brummer: "So, it's not limited to corporations at all. It would be... "

"Partnerships? I think so. Proprietorships?"

"Now, you indicated there was a limitation on how much an individual or a business could deduct in any one year. How much is that?"

"Let's try to speed this up."

"Our analysis indicates $250,000 in any one year could 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 be deducted by... "

"That would be... That would be the cap that they could put on. I mean, I assume... "

"That would be the maximum in any one year."

"There's not going to be a lot of ... and businesses doing that."

"Yeah. Okay. The... The additional item... The Bill indicates there is a 200 percent deduction, so they could deduct twice the amount that they've contributed, in addition to the fact that that's already been deducted on the federal return prior to coming to the adjusted gross income, which serves as a basis before you start to calculate the Illinois return. So, in effect, they're not going to get more... They're going to get more than a double deduction. They're going to get a 200 percent deduction with regard to Illinois income tax, and they are going to have already deducted that in arriving at adjusted gross income on the... on the federal level, so there would be, in effect, a threefold deduction with regard to that."

"If that's the question, the purpose of the... of the deduction, is... "

"Is that correct?"

"Is that a question, Mr. Erummer?"

"I want to know why... "

"I mean, if you want to speak to the Bill, speak to the Bill."

"I want to know why... if my statement is correct."

"As I responded to Ms. Satterthwaite, obviously, it would be considered in getting to adjusted gross incomes."

"So, there'd be a deduction there."

"And so there would be a deduction. The purpose of it is to encourage... encourage contributions to those community organizations." 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"Oh, I understand the purpose. June 27, 1983 Okay, but then, on the Illinois return, there would be a 200 percent deduction in addition to the deduction that's already been arrived at, or been utilized to arrive at adjusted gross income. What is the estimated cost of this, to the state? Our analysis indicates that, for example, in the fifth year, it would be about four million dollars a year. Do you concur?"

"That would be... That... Well, the answer to that is, that is not... your analysis is not accurate. That is what it could be if every conceivable amount of deduction was taken. I think that's highly unlikely, Mr. Brummer, that that would occur. But that would be if a hundred million dollars was... vas given to those kinds of organizations. Very unlikely. Very unlikely."

"Has... Was there a fiscal note request filed on this Bill? Was there a fiscal note request filed on this Bill?"

"Let's bring this to a close, if we could."

"Yes. Oh, I think there was. Yes."

"And was there a fiscal note filed?"

"Yeah. The fiscal note says, 'fiscal impact will not affect 1984 revenues, could reduce future receipts,' but it says that the actual loss will be determined by the extent to which businesses take advantage of the tax deduction. So that they could not estimate it, because obviously, there are caps to it, but they couldn't estimate how much it would be used."

"Okay. Briefly, to the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed."

"I would urge everyone to look very seriously at this Bill. It seems to me that it limits... it benefits very limited areas in the state. It... It creates a 200 percent deduction with regard to Illinois income taxes for a very limited type of situation. You know, if we want to 80  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 make itemized deductions an item on Illinois income taxes, I would suggest what we ought to do is simply adopt the federal standards with regard to charitable deductions, so that all charities would be able to receive contributions from Illinois taxpayers and have them deducted. I don't think we ought to piecemeal it. I don't think we ought to do so in a manner that gives a 200 percent deduction with regard to certain limited community groups, and then... and then not provide a charitable deduction with regard to the other certified charities in the State of Illinois. This will, undoubtedly, cost the taxpayers of Illinois money. It will undoubtedly cost the General Revenue Fund money, and it diverts contributions from other charities...

"Can we bring these remarks to a close?"

"Mr. Speaker, I think I have 10 minutes to speak on this. I don't think I have utilized any significant portion of my 10 minutes. If the Chair indicates to the contrary, I'll be glad to bring my remarks to a close."

"The questioning is a part of that 10 Brummer: minutes." "Yes, I understand that. How many minutes do I have? How many minutes do I have?"

"Go ahead. About a half a second. Go ahead. I'm kidding. Go ahead, Representative Brummer."

"I think this is a very major significant policy change with regard to the issue of deductions from Illinois income taxes, and to begin that with a 200 percent deduction right off the bat, when those deductions have undoubtedly come off of the federal income tax amount in the first place, to arrive at the adjusted gross income that you begin to calculate the income tax purpose on... in Illinois, I think is bad policy. I would urge everyone to look at this very seriously and would urge a 'no' vote." 81  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

Speaker Matijevich: "The Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing." June 27, 1983

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"Representative Ewing moves the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?" Those in favor say 'aye", opposed, 'no", and the main question is put. Representative Greiman to close." Greiman: I was not "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was particularly interested in the remarks of the Gentleman from Marion. aware that giving corporations deductions was considered socialism. I... I... That would shock me to my very grain. a To the contrary, this Bill allows businesses to look into their own communities, to share in the responsibilities of their own communities. In the community that I formerly represented that now is represented... represented with Representative Laurino, we had a community organization which brought together federal, state, local government and developed whole new area, redid a whole street. It was that kind of community organization that brought together the resources of the community. So, what we are saying is that... that Illinois Bell, if they wish, that Commonwealth Edison, if they wish, that... well... all the general corporations - I forgot the utilities - the general corporations who are in the area can go in and say, "We want to help develop this community. We have a stake in this community, and we think that we need additional funds to keep these kind of communities going." We do it for the enterprise zones. We have an extraordinary deduction for enterprise zones, so it's not something new. Mr. Brummer suggests that it's some confounded new approach. It is absolutely the one that this General Assembly adopted last year, and two years before that, as well. So that it is... it is within the tradition of this General Assembly, and I 82  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 ask for the... I think it's a sensible means to develop community organizations in every community in the state, as well as in rural areas, and therefore, I ask for a favorable vote."

"Representative Greiman moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1311. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Representative Birkinbine, one minute to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think the Lady and Gentlemen have a good idea here. Admittedly, there are chances for abuse, but there's chance for abuse in everything, but I would suggest to you that before any individual or company were to contribute to a cause such as might be proposed, they would look into it. Additionally, any such programs would have to be viewed by DCCA, and I suggest to you that if, in trying to fix up these low income neighborhoods, a group like this could do a much better job, rather than if the state or another unit of local government were to jump in and try and do it, you can imagine what might be a potential four million dollar cost to the state with a program like this would probably be a 20 million dollar cost and not be done nearly as well. I think the... the idea has merit, and I think we should give it a try."

"Bring these remarks to a close. Representative Ewing, your light is on. Do you want to explain your vote? Proceed, Representative Ewing."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'm surprised that there are that many green votes up there, and probably while I'm speaking, it will gain a lot more green votes and go over the top, but there are some things about this... Well, I wanted to take credit for that, because I knew it would happen, but let's face it, 83  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Gentlemen and Ladies of this House, this is going to be another exemption off our income tax. Re've tried to keep that as a pure tax in this state. He've done a good job. For that reason alone, it should be defeated. There are other good reasons which speakers have brought up in the debate. This is really an idea which I think is unreasonable. Its time certainly shouldn't have come, and it will be an expense to the state, and we shouldn't pass this Bill out of here."

"Representative O'Connell, one minute to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I rise in opposition to this Bill. I think anyone voting on a green light should take a review of their district, of the area in which they have charities. In order to qualify to obtain a credit you have to be... have at least two of the following characteristics; that the median income of the area is not more than 75 percent of the state's median income, has a high percentage of public assistance dependency, and also has a deteriorated fiscal environment. I would question as to whether this should be a suitable criteria as to whether a particular charity would indulge and enjoy the benefits of this Bill. I live in an area..."

"Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. Let's... Yes, Representative Brummer, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Yes. If this gets the required number of votes, I would like a verification."

"Bepresentative Braun, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, if he does so, may I have leave to be verified?"

"Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will 84  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 take the record. Representative Dunn, for what purpose do you seek recognition?" Dunn, J.: "I'd like my vote changed to "no". I pushed the wrong button."

"Leave to record Representative John Dunn as 'no'. Take the record. On this, there are 64 'ayes', 48 'nos', and there has been a request for a verification, and Greiman asks a Poll of the two Absentees."

"Poll of the Absentees. Daniels and Christensen."

"And the Clerk will call out the Affirmative Vote. When your name is called, be in your seat and raise your arm."

"Alexander. Berrios. Birkinbine. Bowman. Braun. Brookins. Bullock. Capparelli. Cullerton. Currie. DeJaegher. Deuchler. DiFrima. Domico. Doyle. Farley. Flinn. Giglio. Giorgi. Greiman. Hoffman. Homer. Huff. Hutchins. Jaffe. Johnson. Klemm. Koehler. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. LeFlore. Leverenz. Levin. Marzuki. Matijevich. McAuliffe. McCracken. McPike. Nash. Nelson. Oblinger. Panayotovich. Pangle. Pierce. Preston. Rea. Rhem. Rice. Bonan. Saltsman. Shaw. Slape. Taylor. Terzich. Topinka. Turner. Vinson. Vitek. White. Younge. Yourell. Zwick. Mr. Speaker."

"Questions of the Affirmative Vote? Representative Nelson, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Mr. Speaker, how am I recorded?"

"How is Representative Nelson recorded?"

"The Lady is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Would you change me to 'no', please?"

"Change Nelson to 'no'. Representative Steczo?" 85  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983

"Mr. Speaker, may I ask leave of the House to change my vote from 'no'... 'present' to 'yes', please?"

""Present' to 'yes', for Steczo. Leave. Representative Brummer on questions of the Affirmative Vote."

"Mr. Capparelli."

"Capparelli is not in his seat. Ralph Capparelli? Remove him from the Rcll."

"Representative Domico?"

"Donico is in his seat."

"Representative Doyle?"

"Gene Doyle? I don't see him in his seat. Is Representative Doyle in the Assembly? Remove him."

"Representative Giglio?"

"Representative Giglio? Representative Giglio? I don't see Giglio here. Remove him."

"Representative Flinn?"

"Representative Klemm is in his seat."

"Representative Flinn."

"Oh, Flinn? Representative Flinn? I don't see him back there. Remove Representative Flinn."

"Representative Krska?"

"Representative Krska? I don't see him in his seat. Representative Krska in the Assembly? Remove Representative Krska."

"Representative Leverenz?"

"Representative Leverenz is by his seat."

"Representative Kulas?"

"Representative Kulas? He's back there waving his hand."

"Representative Nash?"

"Representative Nash is in his seat."

"Representative Slape?" 86  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983

"Representative Slape? I don't see him here. Remove Representative Slape."

"Representative Pierce?"

"Representative Pierce? I don't see him in his seat. Remove Representative Pierce."

"Representative Ronan?"

"Representative Ronan is over here."

"Representative Terzich?"

"Representative Terzich is not in his seat. Remove Terzich."

"Representative Vinson?"

"Representative Vinson is by his seat."

"Representative White?"

"Representative Jesse White is not in his seat. Remove him."

"Representative Homer?"

"Representative Homer? Where's Homer at? I thought I just saw him here. I don't see him. Remove Homer."

"Representative McAuliffe?"

"McAuliffe. It looks like his coat there, but... Return Jesse White to the Roll Call. Remove McAuliffe. Return Slape and Terzich. Slape and Terzich. Proceed."

"Did you remove Representative McAuliffe?"

"Yes. I imagine he did. Yes."

"Representative Jim Rea?"

"Jim Rea is not in his seat. Remove Rea."

"I think that's all, Mr. Speaker."

"Would the Clerk give the count? 55 ayes', 49 'nays', and this Bill, having failed to receive the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared lost. On page 6 of your Calendar, Short Debate, appears Senate Bill 1313. 87  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1313, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to the Chicago Park District. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Farley, on Senate Bill 1313."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1313 does two things. It allows the Chicago Park District to increase their penalty from $25 to $50 for violations with water or harbors, and what it is, is the boats that are in violation to pay an increase in their penalty. It also provides the Park District to lease from the State of Illinois property and this is Amendment #1 that was put on, and it is geared to the Broadway Armory. It provides that the Park District will... will lease from the state for $1 per year for 20 years the Broadway Armory to provide a facility there, and I would move for passage of Senate Bill 1313."

"Representative Farley moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1313. Does anybody stand in opposition? Seeing none, the question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1313 pass?' Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 103 'ayes', 2 'nays', and Senate Bill 1313, having received... Representative Hastert, 'aye'. Karpiel, 'aye'. Having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1349, Hastert, is on Short Debate on page 6. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1349, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to child abuse prevention and shelters and multidisciplinary teams. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Hastert on Senate Bill 1349." 88  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Senate Bill 1349 is basically the same as two Bills that we passed out of here - 537 and 538, which was sponsored by Representative Jaffe and myself. What those Bills do excuse me - is to set up a... the Child Abuse Prevention Act, which says that the... there shall be funding through a check-off... voluntary check-off on the income tax for the prevention of child abuse both before and after the fact, and also to provide shelters for children who are victims of child abuse, and also to help fund five multidisciplinary teams which were, or will be experimental. I'd be happy to answer any questions."

"Representative Hastert has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1349. On that, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative McGann."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have an Amendment to this Bill, Amendment #3."

"You mean it was adopted, or you mean... It's too late, unless the... unless the Gentleman..."

"I want the Amendment withdrawn."

"Oh."

"So, just have the record show that..."

"Oh. Alright. Everybody knows that his Amendment was not put on the Bill. Representative Oblinger from Sangamon."

"May I ask the Speaker... the Sponsor a question, please?"

"Proceed."

"These grants that are going to be made to not for profit... Maybe if the pages stop talking there, we could... you could hear me. In these grants that are going to be made to not for profit corporations, is there any delineation of what kinds of not for profit corporations 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day these must be?"

"Well, June 27, 1983 basically, these are corporations... or the non for profit agencies may be child abuse agencies that are already set up, but there are... they are service agencies, and they have to be okayed and go under the auspices of DCFS. They also have to have a 20... at least a 20 percent matching fund, or matching monies before they qualify."

"Would it be a possibility that the Illinois Coalition Against Domestic Violence would be one of the recipients?"

"It could be."

"To the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed."

"I have refrained before from bringing up the Illinois Coalition Against Domestic Violence, but I think at this point I probably should. I've heard a lot from a number of people here about an affirmative action program, and it's usually because minorities and women are excluded. I want to call your attention to this Illinois Coalition and see whether you agree with me or not. They advertised for a number of people as employees. Not one man that applied was interviewed, not one woman over 45 was interviewed. In addition, in their ad, it said, 'feminist perspective'. There are families included here, and I would suspect that there are some families that would not subscribe to that, and they should have people working for them who would understand their point of view. And finally, I've checked. No child abuse cases have been handled by them, no elderly abuse, only spouse abuse if the spouse abused is a woman. I don't think they have an affirmative action plan that we can subscribe to, and I would say, just because of that, I'm going to have to vote 'present', because I do not believe in the policy that some of these... I know we just made a $500,000 grant to them in the Public Aid Grant, I 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 think it was. I don't know what we're doing by encouraging people to have that kind of an affirmative action plan."

"This is on Short Debate. Does anybody stand in opposition to the Bill? Representative Currie. She's voting 'present', and that was wild opposition. Representative Currie."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Unlike Representative Oblinger, I have great respect for the Illinois Coalition Against Domestic Violence, but I have another problem with this Bill. The Bill we heard just before this, Senate Bill 1311, ran into some opposition on the grounds that it was interfering with the forms on the Illinois state income tax. If you look at your analysis on Senate Bill 1349, you'll find substantial interference. This Bill provides for a check-off for returned tax dollars owed to the taxpayer. My concerns are several. First of all, I do think that it's important to have a responsive and responsible Illinois income tax form. Secondly, the provision to check off refunds may well be understood by those to whom those refunds are due, not to be refunds at all, but to be a way of checking off, earmarking state tax dollars that those individuals owe. In the third place, there are any number of people who are not owed refunds by the State of Illinois at the end of the taxable year. Those people don't even have an opportunity to contribute to this program. If this is a program worth doing, then we in the Legislature, through the appropriations process, should say so. We should fund this program ourselves. If we want private charity to fund it, let private charity fund it. Let's not somehow use the Illinois income tax form as a way to subvert our own appropriations process and as a way of interfering with the way ordinary charitable operations and organizations work. I think while this Bill 91  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 is certainly well intentioned, the purposes which it serves are useful purposes, this is the wrong way to go about it, and I would certainly recommend anything other than an 'aye' vote on Senate Bill 1349."

"Representative Barnes."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in support of this Bill, and I would also like to address one of the former speaker's objections to the Domestic Violence Program. Bus Yourell and myself are board members on the Crisis Center for South Suburbia. We have employed two men on the staff. We not only support the women. We have special classes for the abusers, which in most cases are the husbands, and we were written up in the Sun-Times. We are one of the most unique shelters, I think, in Illinois. And so I would encourage an 'aye' vote."

"Before I call on Representative Hastert to close, we're going to ask leave to... a photographer wants to take some pictures at a few Members' desks for Illinois Issues, so we will grant them leave to take some pictures at some Members' desks. Representative Hastert to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think there's a little confusion. This Bill certainly is...was not drafted or presented for the domestic violence situation. What this was is a need that was identified by the Legislative Investigative Commission. It's a... as far as the... that issue, it really isn't involved with the Domestic Violence Act at all. It's completely separate of that. This is for children who are abused and trying to find avenues for stemming that abuse, both before and after the fact. Secondly, the criticism that this is takes... tax dollars, doesn't take tax dollars. It's merely a way that people have of donating money that they would have coming to them from the income 92  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 tax in the way of refunds. It's individuals' monies. It's not the state's monies. It's a way of people saying, 'Yes, I'd like to be part of this abuse prevention program and contribute two dollars.' I ask for your positive support. It's good legislation. It's legislation that's been passed by this House before, and certainly is a need that needs to be met."

"Representative Hastert moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1349. Question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1349 pass?' Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 79 'ayes', 11 'nays', 16 voting 'present', and Senate Bill 1349, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. We only... we only have one Bill left on the Order of Economic Recovery, and I'll get to you, Representative... I meant State and Local Government. Representative Shaw, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Yeah, I'd like to be recorded 'no' on that Bill, but my light is not working here. I had the other light on, but you didn't see it, I guess."

"Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see that at all. Representative Shaw voting 'no'. Representative Marzuki, for what purpose do you..."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I'd just like to very quickly explain my vote. I'm for Representative Hastert's legislation one hundred percent. I cannot agree with the funding mechanism. I think this should be handled... it's important enough to be handled as a regular appropriation. We should not fund it on a catch as catch can basis."

"Have all voted? Oh, I announced the Roll Call as having passed. Senate Bill 1349, having received 93  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. And Representative Tate, 'aye'. As I said, there is only one Bill left on the Order of State and Local Government, and that is Senate Bill 1211, and Cullerton, Representative Cullerton asks that we hold that Bill until the Minority Leader, Lee Daniels, is available, and I'm sure the Minority Leader has some real important things he's doing today. So, what I'm going to do, I'm going to get to Representative McCracken's Motion, but first ask leave of the House that Senate Bill 1112... 1211, leave that that be heard sometime today. That's the only Bill left, and rather than extend that Order of Business, leave to defer that Bill later today. Representative Vinson."

"Yes, Representative. The Minority Leader is on his way to the floor, so why don't you go to McCracken's Motion, and he'll be here by then."

"Alright, we'll do that. Representative Rice, what did... are you seeking recognition?"

"I'd like to request leave... recorded 'no' on that last Roll Call, 1349."

"Does he have leave? Leave. Alright, the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I move at this time that we modify Special Order of Business, Subject Matter - State and Local Government, pursuant to House Rule 12 (C) by adding to that Order of Business and to consider pursuant thereto Senate Bill 774."

"Representative McCracken has moved to modify this Order of Business to include House Bill 774. And on that, Representative Cullerton, I think, is on his way to debate that Motion. Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"Mr. Speaker, in the past, when we have debated this 94  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 Bill, we have heard about how it wasn't being treated fairly, and some people alluded to the merits of the Bill itself. I would just say that, not talking about the merits of the Bill, in talking about the procedure, there is approximately twelve pages of Bills, and our deadline is today. We are not going to call all the Bills that are on the Calendar. And yet, the Representative wants us to give him special treatment, give this Bill special treatment now to get it called. We were accused before of delaying its being called. Now we are... we are trying to do just the opposite of what they had argued against. It is for that reason that I oppose the Motion. It's really a procedural Motion, and it's absurd to be able to take one particular Bill and be able to put it on a Special Order on a Motion such as this. If this would pass, then we might as well just extend our deadlines because there is no reason to have them. So for those reasons, I would ask for a 'no" vote on the Motion."

"The Gentleman has moved for the modification of the Special Order - State and Local Government. Representative Karpiel wants to be heard on that."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I support this Nction to hear Senate Bill 774 ΟΙ to place it on a Special Order of Business, Local... State and Local Government to be heard today. We all know what has transpired on this Bill over the last several weeks, and actually, it is a perfectly good Bill. It came out of the Senate unanimously. It came out of the House Committee 11 to 1. It's a good Bill. It's a good people Bill. But for some reason, this Bill has caused a great deal of controversy, and has been treated... well, let's just say with less than courtesy, by being skipped over, by having the Bill simply not called, by playing all kinds of 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 games with it. And rather than special treatment, as the previous speaker mentioned, I'm only asking for fairness in hearing this perfectly good Bill that should have been on the Special Order all along. On... a few days ago, Representative Stuffle had an Amendment that really sort of modifies the Bill, and should not be causing a great deal of concern now for anyone, and I certainly hope that you will vote "aye on this Motion for this Bill to be heard. If you are for Senate Bill 774, you must vote 'yes' on this Motion because if this Motion is defeated, you vill never hear the Bill, and I think that would be a shame after all the games that have been played with it. It deserves a fair hearing on Third Reading. If you don't want to vote for the Bill on Third Reading, fine, but at least give it a chance to be heard. And those of you that are for the Bill, I certainly urge an 'aye vote on this Motion."

"Bepresentative Cullerton, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, I have a... I rise to make a Motion Table this Motion." to

"Alright. Representative McCracken has moved to modify the Special Order of State and Local Government to include Senate Bill 775... Senate Bill 774, and Representative Cullerton moves that that Motion lie on the Table. All those in favor of the tabling Motion say 'aye', opposed say 'no". The tabling Motion prevails. We are... Do ve have... Next Order of Business, Economic Recovery. On page 9 of your Calendar appears Senate Bill 1000, Madigan Stuffle. The Clerk will read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1000, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to create the Prairie State 2000 Fund. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Is Stuffle handling the Bill, ОГ... 96  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day Representative Stuffle on Senate Bill 1000."

June 27, 1983 "ΜΙ. Speaker, Members of the House, Senate Bill 1000 is the major Bill of that series of Bills that came from the Senate, and have been amended and put in final form here that we have come to know as Prairie 2000. This Bill creates the Prairie 2000 Fund with the... as amended with the issuance of seven and a half million dollars of capital stock. Provides also for both employees and employers to be able to involve themselves in retraining programs under the provisions of the Bill. The Fill would allow unemployed persons to receive, through a vouchering system with the voucher going to the retraining entity ΟΙ agency between five and a thousand dollars for training or retraining purposes. It provides for three types of income tax deductions or incentives, if you will, to participants in the program. Number one, a hundred and twenty-five percent premium payment deduction for individuals who meet the unemployment criteria in the Bill, and who are retrained pursuant to the Act. Number two, two types of business deductions. One of those business deductions is a hundred and twenty-five percent of the premium payment for retraining under an improved program, and one is a hundred and twenty-five percent deduction for a direct premium payment under the Bill."

"Representative Stuffle, could I interrupt Representative Greiman in the Chair. for one moment? Stuffle: Proceed." "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As amended, we also reduce the number of fund directors from a virtually unlimited number, who had salaries, to a maximum of nine members. That maximum also is further limited. There are no salaries now involved, only expenses for those Members. I think this program is one that we need to give careful consideration 97  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 to as the basic and most important Bill in the Prairie 2000 series. I think that as amended, we have now put it in the position that it will put no strain on the state's assets. It becomes a voluntary employer - employee participation program to put the state and its people back to work with very minimal impact on income tax revenues in this state that we are all concerned about. I'd be happy to answer questions, and on behalf of Speaker Madigan and myself as the principal Sponsors, ask for your affirmative vote on Senate Bill 1000, as amended."

"Gentleman moves for passage of Senate Bill 1000. On that, is there any discussion? Gentleman from Hardin, Mr. Winchester."

"Representative Stuffle, will you... will the Gentleman yield?"

"Indicates he'll yield for question."

"There was an Amendment, I think, that was proposed to this Bill. Can you tell us now, how will the fund be supported?"

"Mr. Winchester, the fund will be supported by the issuance of seven and one half million dollars in capital stock sold at one dollar par. One dollar a share on the stock, voluntary participation is involved. Pension funds may permissively be involved, if they wish to, but only permissively. They are not mandated to do so under this Bill. And we also provide for premium payments by employers based upon an actuarial formula that decides how much money they have to put in to retrain a person. That's where the income tax deductions come in. That's the method of funding. We totally eliminated any use of bond authority."

"Alright, you spoke of incentives for businesses to participate. What incentives is there for individuals or 98  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day corporations or whoever to buy the stock?" June 27, 1983

"There could be payment of dividends down the road, if the program works as we envision it. That's a voluntary program. That's up to them to buy the stock if they wish to."

"Alright, thank you."

"The Gentleman from Edgar, Mr. Woodyard."

"Thank you, ΜΕ... Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he'll yield for question."

"Larry, is it still in the Bill that the investment a by pension fund would be backed up as a general obligation of the state in the case of... in case they invest in the stock, it becomes an obligation of the state in which the state guarantees it?" Stuffle: a "Yes, on the guarantee portion, that's true. That part would be... that part would be guaranteed as an obligation of the state. This would be a unique obligation. It's not a bond authority obligation or general obligation. It's full faith obligation on that revenue. That pension fund, if they wish to participate, has no obligation to do so, but it's permissive, and then they have the right... there's a right for as many as two people to be appointed as directors from pension funds if they participate voluntarily with a guarantee as to the revenue that they would put into the program."

"Second question, do you know of any specific corporations, employers, that want to participate in this?"

"I did not ask Senator Rock that question. I understand that there were people who approached him about this program in his area in Chicago, and wished to have this type of program put in place. As you know, early on there was a discussion of whether or not we deal with deductions 99  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 or credits or we set up some other formula, and my understanding is the business community has always preferred a program on retraining that would either give them credits or deductions, and this goes the direct deduction route."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, to the Bill."

"Proceed, Mr. Woodyard."

"Very briefly, this is a very innovative idea, but I just cannot perceive or believe that many employers will want to invest in something like that."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Birkinbine."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Indicates he will."

"In a nutshell, would you say that the intent of this plan is to help retrain people for new jobs?"

"I wouldn't say just retrain for new jobs. I would say train or retrain for new jobs or even some existing jobs where they may not have the manpower or the expertise in significant enough numbers to fill those jobs. We do, indeed, have, even with our high unemployment, that kind of situation in the state already where businesses have asked us to retrain people in existing HITS Programs and others to fill jobs that are already available, but there aren't any people capable or with the expertise in a given area to hold those jobs."

"Isn't it true that the Department of Labor already has an ongoing program to retrain people who are unemployed to try and equip them for the new jobs that are opening up?"

"There are programs available, Representative, but there are no programs available that I am aware of that allows the employer to voluntarily make premium payments and then 100  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 receive a deduction, or where the employer can have both that in place and be able to go in and say, "I've got specific jobs here that I need people trained for, so I'm willing to put the money in the fund, and then get my tax deduction back.' Both of those put together, to my knowledge, there are no such... in fact, I'm certain there are no such programs in place that do both."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker, to the Bill."

"Proceed, Mr. Birkinbine."

"I'm afraid, Ladies and Gentlemen, that while the intent of this is certainly laudable, that I suspect there are, frankly, more politics behind it than the need to do exactly what this calls for. The President of the Senate certainly wanted to have something fine and glorious to hang his hat on this Session, and he came up with the Prairie State 2000 Fund and Program. But I suggest that rather than setting up an entire new board of directors, instead of trying to get companies to throw money into a fund and then have people who would have to keep track of who gets what money and who does it go back to, we could simply expand on the existing program run by the Department of Labor, and I know Representative Giorgi had a very good Bill in this Session to streamline and make it easier for the retraining of people. You... what we did was clarify that an entire course of instruction could be okayed by the Department simply by offering a financial incentive, be it a credit or what have you, to companies to encourage people to enroll in programs like that. We wouldn't even need this program. We're setting up what has all the potential of another fine government bureaucracy, and I suspect we are doing it for, as I indicated, purely political reasons so that the... the man who would be Senator can point to something and say, 'Look what I did.' And I would 101  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 recommend that all of us vote "no"."

"Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Giorgi."

"Representative Stuffle... I have a question for the Representative."

"Proceed, Mr. Giorgi."

"I have a couple of specific inquiries. Representative Stuffle, could a... could your program... could your program embrace, let's say, the development of a motel near an existing race track? Do you have enough... is there enough wherewithal in this Bill to do that?"

"I guess if you had an employer who wanted to attempt to get in an improved program or pay premiums in and be in an approved program to train people to work in a hotel close to a racetrack, he could do so."

"Oh, you train them hotel management, culinary products and..."

"If there were that type of a program approved and an agency available to do that, in this fund, the directors of the fund so chose to approve the program, and the person put his money in it, that's a possiblity."

"Okay, I have another specific question. There's a concern in Canada. They want to locate in Rockford. They wanted to locate... it was... they produced video component parts. Can you go through the mechanics of how this could be possible, how they could qualify for money? What would the... what would... go through the program."

"Well, the company you are talking about, number one could buy capital stock and become a member of the fund."

"What if they didn't have any..."

"Can I finish?"

"...they don't have the resources? They have credit, but they don't have any resource."

"Well, they'd have to... they'd have to come up with 102  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENEBAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 They'd have to be able to put some money into some liquid. They'd have to be able to put some money into the... they could become a participant by buying capital stock. Then they could get approved programs paid for through this. They could become... they could put money into the premiums at whatever the actuarial rate is to train a person, and then get an income tax deduction on that, so long as it's an approved program and SO long as the employees involved, you know, are covered under this Bill. So they would have an advantage if they could come up with some cash to put into the program that they would then get it back in advantages of trained employees who would go to work and a hundred and twenty-five percent income tax deduction on the money that they put into the program."

"Another question. Would... would it also enhance, Representative Stuffle, would it also enhance in the... the program if that type of an endeavor was located in a tax increment area or an enterprise zone. Now, would... could this be embellished by locating in a tax increment district or a tax enterprise zone?"

"I don't think it would make any difference. If you had a business that were there in one of those situations, you could still have that business participate in the program. If you are asking that they could possibly have the advantage of putting two programs together, yes, that's the answer. The only thing this would prohibit would be pyramiding benefits under two retraining programs."

"Okay, then it's possible in Illinois to find someone that has a product to market. It's possible in Illinois they can get money for land, money for a plant, money for blacktopping for parking, money for equipment, money for supplies, money to train their workers, extra incentives for locating in enterprise zone, extra incentives for being 103  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day in a tax increment zone. Is that correct?" June 27, 1983

"Under this Bill they could get the training benefits in addition to the other things they may be able to get if we pass other Bills in this Session. This only deals with the training benefits and the tax deductions. You're right. If we pass the others, those things would all be possible to put people back to work."

"Thank you, Representative Stuffle."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bullock."

"Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"Indicates that he will."

"Representative Stuffle, this Bill came through the Economic Recovery Committee?"

"That's correct."

"And this is part of the package of Senator Rock's Bills?"

"This is the main Bill in it."

"And this Bill, in essence, what's the funding mechanism?"

"The sale of stock, an issuance of seven and a half million dollars in capital stock on a voluntary purchase basis, and the premium payments that employers would put into the fund in return for tax deductions and retraining of employees."

"And what would be the revenue loss to the state?"

"We estimate it to be very minimal. The Fiscal Note from Revenue does not estimate it. Let's look at the possibility that there would be ten thousand people retrained under it, ten thousand people. If eight thousand of those people were people retrained at the insistence of a business wishing the deduction, eight thousand people at five hundred dollars per person on the retraining, and two thousand people who were employees who asked to be 104  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 73rd Legislative Day retrained under approved programs, the impact of that at five hundred dollars per person in those two situations, if four out of five were business deductions situations and one out of five employee deductions, the entire impact to train ten thousand people in this state would be a hundred and eighty-five thousand dollars only, to train ten thousand people."

"Alright, now once we retrain them, and I'm certainly supportive of that, Representative Giorgi and I had legislation here which would have set aside forty-five million dollars for a retraining program, and some of the Members didn't think that dog racing's time had come. In this particular instance, however, I think that the time has come for us to find creative financing to retrain the unemployed. But, Representative Stuffle, would the... would the grantee or the loanee, in this instance, have to certify their employment retraining program with an agency?"

"Representative Bullock, let me answer both parts. One was almost a directive and one a question. The seven and a half million dollars, first of all, is capital stock. That's one source of money, a back up. The premium payments could be any amount. Then answering your second question - the program, for an employer to be involved, he would have to come, make presiun payments and then have the person put that he wants to put in a program that we have approved under the fund. He would have to have that approved, or he could come in and attempt to get his own program approved. Then there is mechanism in the Bill to provide that a person would have to be in that approved program, and then the voucher goes to the approved program, and there's stipulations and limitations in there so there could not be fraud in the program. They would have to be 105  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 73rd Legislative Day approved programs."

"And the agency that approves the program, is this the board that you create here? Is this DCCA, or Department of Labor? Who has to approve it?"

"No, no, the Prairie 2000 Fund, which would be made up with as many as nine Directors, would have to come up with approved program, basically a list of approved programs, and where they are being provided, and I would assume for whatever type of thing, such as your community city college in Chicago in a given area might be approved to provide certain types of specific programs under this fund. Then the vouchers, when approved for a person who meets the criteria here in a business asking for it, would be processed by the fund through that delivery agency. They would get the money, and all the criteria would have to be met.

"Has this Bill been amended?"

"This Bill was amended on Second Reading in this House to take care of some technical problems and eliminate the use of any revenue bond authority."

"Okay, very good. Couple, one or two more questions, Mr. Speaker, if I may. Representative Stuffle, my analysis says that there are seven members and you indicate that there are nine members."

"There could be nine. If the pension systems choose to participate, two additional members would be appointed that would be pension fund people. Otherwise, the Treasurer is an ex officio member, and there are six other appointees."

"So the pensioners would have a voice of two? Or would they have a voice of five if it were nine, or four if it were seven? I mean who has the majority vote?"

"Two, they would have two people, two specific members. But they would only be in the fund, Representative, if they 106  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day chose to be voluntarily. participation." June 27, 1983

We do not mandate their Bullock: "And so this would be an employer dominated quasi-judicial body?"

"Well, I guess you could look at it that way, but in terms of the dominance vis-a-vis the pension funds, the pension funds don't have to participate unless they want to."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker, the Bill. To the Bill."

"Proceed, Mr. Bullock."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in support of Senate Bill 1000. Representative Stuffle, I think, has adequately explained the proposition before us. If we are to proceed in this state toward economic recovery, and some say that it's absolutely a mandate on this Body that we do that, then we certainly must pursue alternative financing and alternative sources of revenue to not only retrain the unemployed in this state, but to find a way so that we can discontinue going into the pockets of the taxpayers. I think it's high time that Members of both side of the aisle begin to look for a new frontier in state financing and in trying to solve the unemployment problem. Three-quarters of a million people in this state, over twelve million people nationwide are yearning for help. Senate Bill 1000 is an answer in that direction, and I would urge an 'aye' vote."

"There being no further discussion, Mr. Stuffle to close."

"Let me just simply say, in asking for your affirmative vote, that I think this is an important piece of legislation in the whole package regarding economic recovery. It's gotten full and adequate hearing and consideration. We considered and put on the Amendment that 107  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Representative Winchester proposed in the Committee from the Republican side of the aisle. With regard to the question about employer participation, yes, there are those who wish to participate. Yes, we have a letter from Chicago Area Commerce and Industry that was filed in the Senate when this Bill was up indicating support of the program. I think the Bill is even better now. And on behalf of Representative Madigan, the Speaker of the House, the real... principal Sponsor and myself, as the hyphenated Sponsor, would ask for your affirmative vote on this important Bill to put the people of this state back to work."

"Question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 87 voting 'aye', 26 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Return now to the Special Order, State and Local Government appears Senate Bill 1211. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1211, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1211 initially, after passing the Senate, was just a technical change. Amendment #1, which I offered last week, increases the property levy for tax purposes for the City of Chicago for a specific fund. The specific fund that this Bill addresses is the building fund. Now, may people have heard the arguments over increasing the tax levy fifty cents for the education fund. That is not contained in this Bill. This Bill increases 108  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 the levy from .45 percent to .59. In other words, it increases the rate fourteen cents, and the effect of which would be to bring into the city next year... I'm sorry, this year, twenty-seven million dollars to help aid in the... offset the deficit expected from the Board of Education. And in the ensuing years after that, the rate would... the amount would go down to approximately twenty million dollars a year. I would also point out that there was another Amendment on the Bill offered by Representative Homer, having to do with the enterprise zones, and I would ask that during the course of the debate on this Bill that Representative Homer explain that particular aspect of the Bill to the Members of the General Assembly. I'd be happy to answer any questions, and I would ask for your support."

"Gentleman moves for passage of Senate Bill 1211, and on that is there any discussion? The Gentleman from McLean, Mr. Ropp."

"Would the Sponsor yield, please, Mr. Speaker?"

"Indicates he'll yield for question."

"Did you say this would generate twenty million dollars into the school system?"

"The first year, it would be twenty-seven million dollars. Thereafter, it would be approximately twenty million dollars. And I would point out, Representative Ropp, that the people who would be paid from this fund are the janitors, the carpenters, the trade people, trade union people as opposed to the teachers."

"Okay, are these the people, then, as the result of previous comments that I have heard all Session, then that is needed in order to open the schools this fall. This will take care of all of those needs now?"

"No, the estimated deficit is approximately two hundred million dollars in the City of Chicago. This would 109  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 cut into that deficit by approximately twenty-seven million. Other Bills sponsored by Representative Kirkland also cut into that deficit. This is a specific fund called the Building Fund, and the money that's raised by this fund can be used to offset those deficits by paying the union employees that the trade employees that I spoke of."

"Alright, in other words, if this Bill is passed, then we still have to come up with a hundred and seventy-three million to take care of the opening of the schools in Chicago this fall, right?"

"Well, that would assume that the estimate that the deficit was two hundred million was accurate. Now, I'm sure it's more than twenty-seven million, but I'm not sure that it's two hundred million."

"In other words, it could be less than two hundred, you're saying?"

"It's possible."

"Okay, thank you."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Notwithstanding an Amendment which was adopted to this Bill, proposed by the Representative from Fulton, I stand in support of this legislation. This is an opportunity that we must give the Chicago Board to allow their own taxpayers to pay closer to the proportionate share of the cost for education in Chicago as compared to all the other districts in the state. Even with this tax rate increase, even with this tax rate increase, they will be paying a lower proportion of their total tax bill for schools than the rest of the state. Now, let me address one other issue, and that is the fact that it has a non-referendum clause in it. There is no backdoor referendum. It's just a straight non-referendum. This has 110  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 been the traditional approach that has been used by this Legislature for Chicago. This is the only reasonable approach to use in that particular set of circumstances, and notwithstanding that factor in the Bill, I rise in support of the legislation and would encourage Members on this side of the aisle to do likewise."

"Gentleman from Hardin, Mr. Winchester."

"Would the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"He indicates that he wil1."

"Representative Cullerton, this... no, this would allow the Members from the Chicago area to address an important problem in just one certain area of the state, and will not affect the rest of the Members in the rest of the state, is that correct?"

"That's right. This has nothing to do with the School Aid Formula. This is simply..."

"Yes, then this... this would help you resolve a very serious problem that you've got in that particular area of the state?"

"That's correct."

"Then I think we ought to support this Bill."

"Further discussion? There being none, Mr. Cullerton to close."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would ask for your support. This Bill would provide for some funds, as I have indicated, twenty-seven million dollars. It would help offset the deficit, the expected deficit of two hundred million dollars that the Chicago Board of Education expects to have facing them in September. The money would not go into the education fund, but rather into the building fund, and could be used to pay the salaries of the non-teaching and non-administrative personnel. I would ask for your support of this Bill." 111  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 96 voting 'aye', 9 voting 'no', 5 voting 'present', and this Bill...Mr. Piel 'aye', so there are 97 voting 'aye', 9 voting 'no', 5 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Returning now to the Order... Special Order of Business, Economic Recovery, appears Senate Bill 1001. Mr. Clerk, call the Bill. Read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1001, a Bill for an Act to create the Illinois Job Training Coordinating Council. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Rhem."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Senate Bill 1001 creates the Illinois Job Training Coordinating Council composed, as amended, forty-five members to promote and coordinate employment and training programs, to further the cooperation between government and the private sector, and to meet federal regulations under the Job Training Partnership Act of 1982. And I request your favorable vote."

"Gentleman from Cook moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1001. On that is there any discussion? Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Hallock."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Indicates that he will."

"How many members did you say this council will establish?"

"As amended, forty-five."

"Forty-five members on this commission?"

"Yes, this council." 112  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"How can forty-five members collectively do anything at all? Well, first of all, how can you collectively get forty-five people together at any one time?"

"Well, they are broke down into committees."

"Well, not all of us are here."

"And under the federal law, you have to have a council."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, just briefly to the Bill. It would seem to me that this main point raises some of the problems with the Bill that I think are... should be obvious on its face. A forty-five member gubernatorially appointed committee obviously seems to me like something which might be politically appealing on the surface, but in practicality, it really won't work. All we've done here is just set up another device which I believe will do nothing. I urge a 'no' vote."

"Gentleman from Vermilion, Mr. Stuffle."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, I know at first blush it sounds like forty-five is a great deal of people, and frankly, it is. But there are federal mandates in place with regard to this type of program, and with regard to that, when you look at the Federal JTFA Guidelines, it's almost impossible in putting together the membership on this type of training council to come up with less then this number of people. If you look at those guidelines, they go through a whole laundry list of percentages and numbers from different walks of life, from local government, the general public, state agencies, the State Legislature, business, industry and sc forth. It's very difficult to reduce that number of people down to any more reasonable figure. I think Representative Rhem has an excellent Bill in terms of putting in place and creating a Job Training Coordinating Council, and the argument about the size and the numbers is one that we have little ability 113  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 to do much about. And I urge an affirmative vote on this Bill that's also part of the necessary economic recovery package."

"Gentleman from Edgar, Mr. Woodyard."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Yes, question, Representative. Does this Bill now contain also the language which was adopted in several other Bills that you must... that DCCA must have written concurrence from the unions involved before implementing the industrial training program? Does it contain that language now?"

"It has nothing to do with industrial training. This is just a JTPA. The union... The language was in there for the Labor Department, I mean for the laborers. Also for the business."

"What was the effect of Amendments 1 and 2?"

"Representative, Amendment #1 was some administrative changes. I think what you are relating to is Amendment #2 where we made provisions for the unions and the labor to have members on the Job Training Council, four... four additional members."

"Alright, but they must receive written concurrence, and I was wrong in my question, written concurrence before they can dispense any JTPA Funds. Is that correct?"

"That's true."

"Is that correct?"

"Yes."

"Okay, let me ask you, is it also still in the Bill that this council must submit its district boundary plans by 1/1/84, by January 1, '84?"

"You mean the region plan, the local twenty-six regions?"

"Yeah, yes." 114  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"That's done."

"Are you aware those district boundary lines are already in place, and that we must be in operation with our JTPA Program by October 1st, two months prior to the time that this Council reports?"

"The transitional period for... period from CETA to the Job Training Partnership Act starts in October, but we have up until July of 1984."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, to the Bill. In my opinion, this particular Bill, of all those in this economic recovery package could potentially be the most devastating of any of the Bills in that package. I must tell you that this forty-five member council, it already exists. It already exists under the federal guidelines. It's already existed because of Executive Order #2, and I think the establishment, if this were to ever become law, would seriously jeopardize the implementation of any JTPA program. I would encourage a 'no' vote on this Bill."

"Lady from DuPage, Ms. Cowlishaw."

"Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield for a question, please?"

"Indicates that he will."

"Thank you. In general, I believe that I support the concept involved in this legislation. As a general principle, I have always held that God so loved the world that he did not send a committee. Nevertheless, I do not object to the numbers of persons on this committee. My only question is would this group be subject to the Open Meetings Act?"

"Yes, it would, Representative."

"Thank you very much."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Taylor."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question." 115  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

June 27, 1983 "Gentleman moves that the previous question be put. All in favor signify by saying 'aye", those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The previous question will be put. To close, Mr. Rhem."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that this program can be a real successful program if we have the cooperation, which is built in here, of business, labor, local government and everyone that is concerned with job training for the dislocated and the young people. I urge a favorable vote on Senate Bill 1001."

"Question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. Mr. Winchester, the Gentleman from Hardin, to explain his vote, one minute."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This could be a very dangerous vote if we vote green on this Bill. It could very well jeopardize the entire Jobs Training Partnership Act. We already, by Executive Order, have a forty-five man board. It clearly states that by... that by October 1 the funds are going to be sent to the State of Illinois for distribution. This extends it to 1/1/84. This is sending a confusing message to the Federal Government. There is a... there is an Amendment on here that says you have to clear with your local labor unions before you can, you know, any community can spend that JTFA money. This is a very dangerous piece of legislation, and could result in the Federal Government discontinuing any funding to DCCA for the Jobs Training Program. We've already set up the map in the State of Illinois. The map has been completed, approved. The state is divided into regions. This would send us back to the drawing board again. We have an Executive Order. We don't need this piece of legislation. It could cause a considerable amount of problems. Vote 116  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 73rd Legislative Day "no"."

"Lady from Cook to explain her vote, Ms. Braun. Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman, to explain his vote."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Just quickly to bring to your attention, this council is already in place by Executive Order. It has been working, it has been functioning. The picks have been established and they are on schedule to put the Jobs Training Partnership back in effect October the 1st. And so for that reason, there is... this is unnecessary legislation. I rise in opposition."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 67 voting 'aye', 48 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority... Mr. Winchester, yes, for what purpose do you rise?"

"I really think that this an important enough piece of legislation to ask for a verification of the Roll."

"Gentleman from Hardin requests a verification of the Affirmative Roll. Mr. Clerk, do you want to poll the absentees... Mr. Rhem... at Mr. Rhem's request?"

"Poll of the Absentees. Brummer and Christensen."

"Brummer votes 'aye'. So now, Mr. Clerk, there are what, 68 voting 'aye', 48 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present', and Mr. Winchester requests a verification? Mr. Clerk, poll the Affirmative Roll."

"Alexander. Berrios. Bowman."

"Excuse me. Mr. Winchester, Ms. Currie would ask leave to be verified. You have leave, Ms. Currie. And Mr. Levin would like to leave... would like leave for leave. Alright. Proceed, Mr. Clerk."

"Braun. Breslin. Brookins. Brummer. Brunsvold. Bullock. Capparelli. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. 117  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 DeJaegher. DiPrima. Domico. Doyle. Farley. Flinn. Giglio. Giorgi. Greiman. Hannig. Bicks. Homer. Huff. Hutchins. Jaffe. Keane. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. LeFlore. Leverenz. Levin. Marzuki. Matijevich. Mautino. McGann. McPike. Mulcahey. Nash. O'Connell. Panayotovich. Pangle. Pierce. Preston. Rea. Rhem. Rice. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Slape. Steczo. Stuffle. Taylor. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. Vitek. White. Wolf. Younge. Yourell and Mr. Speaker."

"Mr. Winchester, questions of the Affirmative Roll. Mr. Rea, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Leave to be verified."

"Does the Gentleman have leave? Yes, you have leave."

"Berrios."

"Berrios in his chair."

"Oh, what number are we starting with, Mr. Speaker?"

"68, 68 'ayes'. Mr. Berrios is in his chair."

"Bowman."

"Mr. Bowman is in his chair."

"Breslin."

"Ms. Breslin... how is the Lady recorded?"

"Lady is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove her from the Holl."

"Brookins."

"Mr. Brookins is in his chair. No, he's out of his chair now, but he was in his chair."

"Brunsvold. Okay, I see his. He's over here. Capparelli."

"Mr. Capparelli is in his chair, and Ms. Breslin has returned."

"Farley." 118  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"I'm sorry, who? Mr. Farley? Mr. Farley in the chamber? How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting "aye"."

"Bemove him from the Roll."

"Flinn.

"Mr. Flinn is in his chair."

"Hutchins."

"Mr. Butchins is in his chair."

"You know, it... I apologize to the chair, but sometimes it's difficult to see them, you know, for the Members standing."

"NO, no, the Chair doesn't want to intimidate you in any way, but Mr. Hutchins is in his chair."

"Alright. Well, I... I feel that. I feel that a little bit, but... Laurino. Laurino."

Laurino, is Mr. Laurino in the chamber? How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove the Gentleman."

"McFike."

"Im sorry... do you want to... Mr... The Majority Leader, Mr. McPike, is that who you wanted to challenge?"

"Yes, or is that something we've not been doing. Mr. Speaker?"

"Oh, Mr. McPike. Well, I don't know. Sort of..."

"Alright, scratch that one for the time being. Panayotovich."

"Ar. Panayotovich is in his chair."

"Ronan."

"Mr. Ronan. Mr. Ronan in the chamber? How is the Gentleman recorded?" 119  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove him from the Roll."

"Van Duyne."

"Mr. Van Duyne. Mr. Van Duyne in the chamber? How is... How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Did you take Van Duyne off, Mr. Speaker?"

"We removed Mr. Van Duyne, did we not, Mr. Clerk? No. Mr. Van Duyne. Remove Mr. Van Duyne. Leave for Mr... for..."

"Yeah, they can have leave. Go ahead. Leave."

"Leave for Marco... Mr. Domico to be verified. Proceed."

"DeJaegher."

"Mr. DeJaegher. Mr. DeJaegher in the chamber?"

"Turner."

"Wait, let me... "

"Oh, I'm sorry."

"Let me finish. Mr. DeJaegher is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll. Mr. Turner is in the rear."

"Kulas."

"Mr. Kulas. Mr. Kulas. Is Mr. Kulas in the chamber? How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Kulas."

"Christensen."

"Mr. Christensen is excused for today."

"Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Saltsman."

"Mr. Saltsman is at his chair."

"Pangle."

"Mr. Fangle is in his chair."

"That's it, Mr. Speaker." 120  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"On this Bill, there are 62 'aye', 48 "no", 1 voting 'present', and this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of Special Order of Business, Economic Becovery, appears Senate Bill 1002. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1002, a Bill for an Act to establish Third Reading of high impact training services programs. the Bill."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz."

"Thank you, Hr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1002 would provide that the State Board of Education would enter into funding agreements with local educational agencies to provide for high impact training service programs. The programs shall be concerned only with training of skilled ΟΓ semi-skilled employment. Provides that the participants in the HITS programs may receive unemployment benefits if the training course has received approval from the Director of the Department of Labor. Amendment #1 provides that a portion of the high impact training service program would be involved in assisting and training dislocated workers in geographical areas that have been significantly influenced by business layoffs or plant closings, and that it would be solely funded from the Federal Job Training Partnership Act Funds. Amendment #2 is technical in nature with references to Title III monies. Amendment #3 would provide the Director the authority to grant approval thirty days prior to an individual's formal admission into the program. And Amendment #4 provided that one could not be trained for a position where layoffs had previously occurred so we were not training people that would not be ultimately going to work. The Amendment also provided written concurrence from the appropriate bargaining agent where a collective 121  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 bargaining agreement existed with a participating employer covered under the Occupational Training. Also provided for the maintenance of accurate record. And also the Amendment provided that you could not train and place in the workplace a person that would replace a person that was on strike. Answer any questions that the House may have, and then I would move for the passage of Senate Bill 1002."

"Gentleman moves for passage of Senate Bill 1002. On that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Adams, Mr. Mays."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield, please?"

"He indicates that he will."

"Representative, my analysis states that part of your Bill specifies that the unemployment insurance benefits will not be denied to participants in the HITS program. Is that correct?"

"Yes, I indicated in my opening remarks that they would receive unemployment benefits if the training course had been approved or received the approval from the Director of the Department of Labor, identical to the way it operates currently."

"So in other words, this is okay with the Federal Government. We do not jeopardize the balance program that we passed earlier this Session to assure that we would be eligible for the deferral of the loan and all those things. This will not expand benefits in areas that might jeopardize the agreement we reached with the Federal Government earlier on?"

"That's correct. BES is in agreement with the blanket approval process. It would not jeopardize anything from the Federal Government with one exception, and that is if you blow the next election, you could not become a 122  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 participant in the program."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Terzich."

"I move the previous question."

"Question is, 'Shall the previous question be put?' All in favor signify by saying 'aye', those opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, and the previous question will be put. Mr. Leverenz to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House and my good friend, Representative Mays. This would put the current program into state law. It would expand the HITS program to include dislocated workers and that portion of the program would strictly be paid for from the... the federal funds, the Job Training Partnership Act. I would ask for your 'aye' vote on Senate Bill 1002."

"Question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. Gentleman from Edgar, Mr. Woodyard to explain his vote, one minute."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. An explanation of my vote. Ted, can I get a nod of the head? Can private schools be... Ted, over here. Can private schools be included in this program as well as in the definition of an education agency? Fine."

"Gentleman from Hardin, Mr. Winchester, to explain his vote, one minute."

"Well, here again, Mr. Speaker, the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs opposes this Bill. It does have the provision in there also that we have to check with the local labor unions before anyone can be hired under the Jobs Training Partnership Act. There are provisions in there that was under the old CETA Program. This would bring it back to the old CETA Program. The only problem is, it was the federal government who decided that they 123  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 didn't want those prior programs in the Jobs Training Partnership Act, and here we are, in the State Legislature, trying to add something that the federal government deemed not necessary. So I think a 'no' vote would be appropriate."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 92 voting 'aye', 23 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of Special Order of Business, Economic Recovery, appears Senate Bill 1004. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1004, a Bill for an Act in relation to certain technical training programs. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Lady from Champaign, Ms. Satterthwaite."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, Senate Bill 1004 sets up a program called the Corporate Campus Program. It would permit the State Community College Board to review programs where partial reimbursement for a new training program would be established. It also permits corporate contributions of high tech equipment, and gives a deduction for that donation of equipment to help to encourage the partnership that this Bill is designed to set up. We had hearings indicating that there are some programs currently established where community colleges are using equipment from private corporations. This would extend that type of affiliation into other community colleges within the state. We are also aware that our community colleges are uniquely able to do relatively short term kinds of training programs for new emerging industries. However, the purchase of equipment is frequently a handicap to getting those programs off the ground. We would hope by this piece of 124  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 legislation that we can encourage that kind of coupling between industry and the community colleges to see that these programs become viable. I will be happy to try to answer questions or would seek your affirmative vote."

"Lady moves for passage of Senate Bill 1004. On that is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'nay'. Voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 98 voting 'aye', 17 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of Special Order of Business, Economic Recovery, appears Senate Bill 1006. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1006, a Bill for an Act in relation to the creation of Illinois Young Minds Program. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Fierce."

"Senate Bill 1006 is part of the Prairie Dog Program that came from the Senate. It... Oh, Prairie State I guess it is. Excuse me. It's modestly called the Young Minds Program, and what it does, it provides and encourages... it encourages business and individuals to donate technical and vocational equipment to the schools of the state, and provides a income tax deduction for those that do. It will assist in vocational education, and I think it's a good program, even though it comes from the... from the Senate. It helps the poorest school districts with a state grant, and the other school districts will receive donations, and the donor will receive a income tax deduction, whether a corporation or an individual. It passed out of Education Committee unanimously. Passed the Senate on one of their 125  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 wonderful Consent Calendars. And I urge the passage of Senate Bill 1006 to help Illinois in the year 2000 with all its young minds."

"I think Mr. Pierce has moved the passage of 1006. On that is there any discussion? Gentleman from Edgar, Mr. Woodyard."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates that he will."

"Can you give me an example of how an individual donation of a piece of equipment, how would we arrive at the value of that? Say that I wanted to donate an old tractor to a college or something that's completely depreciated out. Do I get an additional tax deduction on that?"

"On the original Bill you would have, but we amended it in the House and improved it and provide this depreciated basis that would provide the basis for the deduction of the donation. So if it's been completely depreciated, under House Amendment #1, there would be no benefit to the donor. The way the Senate passed it out, he'd have gotten a big benefit based on the original basis."

"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 95 voting 'aye', 22 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of Special Order of Business, Economic Recovery, appears Senate Bill 1011. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1011, a Bill for an Act to amend the Intergovernmental Cooperation Act. Third Reading of the 126  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day Bill." June 27, 1983

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bullock... Mr. Fangle. Gentleman from Kankakee, Mr. Pangle."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill would authorize municipalities, counties or combinations thereof to enter into an intergovernmental agreement with community college districts from local economic development commissions. Authorizes such commissions to seek any type of funding to coordinate local economic commercial development programs."

"Gentleman moves passage of Senate Bill 1011. On that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Edgar, Mr. Woodyard. There being none, the question is... excuse me... your light is not flickering. Mr. Winchester, push your light. Is your light on?"

"Yes, it's on. I'm on."

"Alright, you're on now."

"You turn me on."

"Never."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't have any questions of the... of the Sponsor, but I would like to... for the Membership to know that this is opposed by the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs, as well as the State Chamber of Commerce. It does have a provision in there that... alright. I just want to mention that the State Chamber of Commerce and the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs oppose the Bill."

"Question is, Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. Mr. Bullock to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The legislation offered by Representative Pangle and myself, there is an Amendment on there which adequately 127  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 addresses the Chamber of Commerce concern. The local municipal units will, in fact, through their chief executive officer, have the option of appointing a representative of business and labor to these local economic development corporations. The Bill is needed, and as the Sponsor previously said, will go an awful long way to utilizing community based educational facilities and faculty and staff to address local concerns relative to economic recovery. And I'd urge an 'aye" vote."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill there are 75 voting 'aye', 34 voting "no", none voting "present". This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Winchester, why don't you hit your speak button for a moment. Let's see if it works. Okay, you're fine. Special Order of Business, Economic Recovery, appears Senate Eill 1015. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1015, a Bill for an Act to create the Illinois Youth Conservation Corps. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Lady from St. Clair, Ms. Younge."

"Thank you very much, Br. Speaker. Senate Bill 1015 would create the Illinois Youth Conservation Corps of 1983. It's for summertime, part time employment for youth between the ages of fifteen and nineteen. This program is established within the Department of Conservation. They have done an excellent job with the program. The appropriations for this Bill is a federal appropriation of the Joint Partnership Training Act. That Bill is already in the Senate, and I ask for your support in this matter."

"Lady moves for passage of Senate Bill 1015. On that, is there any discussion? Gentleman from Winnebago, 128  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENEBAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 73rd Legislative Day Mr. Hallock."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Indicates she will."

"It's my understanding that Illincis has had, in the past, up until about last year, a young adult conservation corps like this program. The program stopped when the federal funds expired. The State of Illinois did not want to keep it going because it didn't work too well. Could you respond to that?"

"It has just been funded again under the Joint Partnership Training Act, six million dollars. This is a very cost effective program. What happens is, the young people in June, July and August go out the state parks and they cut down the trees and they build roads and they have a very good learning experience. And they get resumes, and they get job experience, and it's a very good program."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Members, to the Bill. We had, in our part of the state, a young adult conservation corps, and the progras started off as a very laudable one, one which ve hoped would work. And I have also seen the ones around the state they had in other parts of Illinois. In practicality, what the program came down to was having fifteen or twenty kids go out and try to chop down one tree. It seemed to me that the program, when we had it before, it really didn't work. Not much was being taught, not much was being accomplished. Overall, it was a waste of money. I urge a 'no' vote."

"Lady from DuPage, Ms. Karpiel."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates she'll yield for questions."

"Representative, in Committee we discussed the problem with funding of this program, and I think you have something there that mentioned or said that it would be 129  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 allowed. It is our staff's analysis and our staff's opinion that funding this program with the Federal Job Training Partnership Act Funds is... would probably not be legal."

"Thank you, Representative. The Department of Conservation believes that the funding under the Joint Partnership Training Act would be legal. There is a specific citation which exempts exemplary youth programs. And under that exemption to the Joint Partnership Training Act, this kind of program, which provides temporary summer employment to youth for the summer only is explicitly approved. There is no question but that the Joint Partnership Federal Funds can be used for this program."

"Well, Representative, another probles I have with this is that this Job Partnership Act, Job Training Partnership Act, is going to be administered at the local level by the delivery... the service delivery areas. And it is really more up to those service delivery areas as to what they are going to fund. Now, how are we going to implement this on a state-wide... and we are going to say... tell these various service areas around the state that they must do this?"

"The Bill... 1015 as presently written, requires the Department of Conservation to come up with a specific plan that it presents to the General Assembly within sixty days. We're not talking about local councils. We're talking about a state-wide program operated by the Department of Conservation. They will come up, under this Bill, with a plan that will be submitted to the General Assembly. And so we are talking about an entirely different thing, Representative."

"Okay, well, thank you. To the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Froceed, Ms. Karpiel." 130  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"I have a problem with this Bill, not because I have a problem with having a summer youth conservation program for young people, but I have a problem with... first of all, with funding it through the Federal Job Training Partnership Act. First of all, it is my information that the JTPA expressly prohibits use of its funds for public service employment. It also requires that participants have to be economically disadvantaged. In this Bill, it says that preferential treatment has to be given to those that are economically disadvantaged, but then it could go to others that, perhaps, are not. I also have a problem in the sense that these funds are supposed to be... are being expended and being used through these local service delivery areas, and not state-wide programs. Another problem I have with the Bill is that these funds are supposed to be used to train people for permanent employment. We want to take people that have been laid off of work or fired or whatever because their job is no longer there, and we were trying to retrain them so they can have permanent employment. This is just going to take care of young people to give them about three months work working out in the parks and all that type of thing, which I think is a fine idea, but I don't think should be funded with the Jobs Training Partnership Funds. In fact, I don't even think it will end up by being considered legal, and I would urge a 'no' vote."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Berrios."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"Mr. Berrios moves the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the previous question be put?' All in favor signify by saying 'aye', those opposed say 'no.' The 'ayes' have it and the previous question will be put. Younge to close." As. 131  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. The questions raised were all raised in the Committee. There is no question that under the federal citation this is an eligible program. These young people will be given summer job opportunities. With those opportunities, they will then have resumes and they can go find other jobs. I ask for the support of this program."

"Question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. Mr... Mr. Leverenz to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I hope this gets a number of Republican votes because we have to train young people. I have here the Governor's most recent release last week. He's reviving the Youth Conservation Corps this summer, than which the most distinguished Gentleman on the other side of the aisle said got phased out. Simply a million three for nine hundred and twenty-five youths, says how to apply, says it's CETA money. Jobs Training Partnership Act replaces CETA. This is a good program."

"Gentleman from Hardin, Mr. Winchester, to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The previous Gentleman is partially right. Of course, more wrong than right. The Department of Commerce and Community Affairs has pointed out to me that it is illegal to use these funds for this type of program. Now, under... under, as Representative Karpiel pointed out, under a special provision that the Department of Labor has provided for next year, there will be monies available through a second program for youth training. You cannot use Jobs Fartnership money for old CETA-type programs. It's just not there. This is illegal, 132  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 73rd Legislative Day and a 'no' vote is a proper vote."

"Gentleman from Vermilion, Mr. Stuffle, to explain his vote."

"Just to say it seems there's a difference of opinion of what the federal law says. It's my understanding, we looked at this in some of our hearings, and it's my understanding, too, that the Representative Younge passed out information indicating, in Committee, specifically that this was covered by the federal law and was authorized. The unemployment rate among white... white youth is twenty-nine percent and among black youth forty-eight percent in this state. That's reason enough to put this in place."

"The Gentleman from DeWitt, Mr. Vinson."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, leave to ask... to add Mr. Leverenz with all of his enthusiasm as a Cosponsor of the Bill."

"The... thanks for the help. The Gentleman from Adams, Mr. Mays."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Briefly, to explain my vote. The whole point of the Jobs Training Partnership Act in my mind is to train people for permanent jobs. This Bill does not do it, regardless of whether the funds are eligible under it. I would urge a 'no' vote because it's a distortion of the original purpose."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 69 voting aye", 46 voting "no", none voting ... Mr. Hicks aye". On this Bill, there are 70 voting aye, 46 voting 'no", none voting 'present', and this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Special Order of Business, Economic Recovery. On the... that Order appears Senate Bill 1017. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill." 133  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Senate Bill 1017, a Bill for an Act to amend the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois and the Illinois Promotion Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Terzich."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. I want you to know that I am for economic recovery in the state of Illinois, and Senate Bill 1017 will do that. This Bill empowers the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs to create a Tourism and Convention Bureau. Many states have initiated agressive campaigns to attract tourism and conventions. Illinois should be the convention capital of the the nation, and with the numerous excellent tourism attractions from Chicago to the Shawnee National Forests in southern Illinois, Illinois has much to offer as any state in the nation. These tourism attractions generate much revenue for the state, and Illinois must start advertising for its share of the tourism convention dollar. Currently, only ten percent of the funds collected from the state hotel and motel tax is deposited in the tourism fund. This legislation calls for an additional 12.5 percent to be deposited in the fund. This would add approximately five million dollars to the tourism coffers. Illinois is in serious financial trouble, as we know. Not to capitalize on our natural attraction and bring convention and tourists into the state would ignore many valuable assets that we are now blessed with in the state. We also amended the Bill that would extend the provisions of the Act to include economic development agencies and tourism development organization as eligible tourism grant recipients under the Act. This was requested by the State Department of Commerce, Chamber of Commerce. I will also add that the Bureau shall fund grants to the municipalities to assist in attracting tourism convention activities to their areas. 134  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 The grants shall not be used to finance any individual event, or for leasing, renting or purchasing of any physical facilities. And this is a good Bill and I would like to have your support."

"Gentleman from Cook moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1017. On that, is there any discussion? The Lady from DuPage, Ms. Karpiel."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he'll yield for questions."

"Representative Terzich, what did I hear you say something about the funding for this is going to be twelve percent of something? Did you say twelve percent?"

"The twelve... calls for an additional 12.5 percent would be deposited in this fund. From the motel and hotel..."

"12.5 percent will be coming out of where?"

"The hotel and motel tax."

"I thought the original Bill had ten percent?"

"No, it's twelve... ten percent goes now. This calls for 12.5."

"So at the present time, to fund the Department's Division of Tourism they take ten percent out of the hotel and motel fund, and now for your particular Division or Bureau you want another 12.5 percent?"

"That's correct."

"Thank you. Cne more question. Why is it that you would like to create this Tourism and Convention Bureau within the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs when they already have an office of Tourism and Fromotion in the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs? Do you think that the Department is not doing a good job in promoting tourism and conventions in the State of Illinois?" 135  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"They are the only ones set up by statute to do this. I, personally, feel that they could do a much better job. Yes, I do, certainly do."

"Do you think that two bureaus doing the same job can do better than one bureau doing the job?"

"I understand they can combine their current office into this Bureau."

"Alright, if... there is no provision in the Bill to allow them to do that, but assuming that they did indeed do that, would they then be able to take 22.5 percent of the hotel-motel tax for this particular Bureau?"

"That's correct."

"Alright, to the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed, Ms. Karpiel."

"When we amended this Bill on Second Reading I spoke on it, and as much as I admire the Chairman of the Executive Committee for the many good pieces of legislation he sponsors, I think this is just a horrendous piece of legislation. I mean, one, it is bad enough to pass bad Bills out of this House, but to pass bad Bills out that do the exact same thing as the state is already doing is just... to me, just simply illogical and unthinkable. At the present time, the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs operates an Office of Tourism and Promotion, and it uses about 4.3 million dollars of money that comes out of the hotel-motel tax. For those of you that aren't aware of how this works, the hotel-motel tax is raised by levying or about five percent of the gross receipts of a hotel or motel operator. This money goes ninety percent to the General Revenue Fund and ten percent to this Department, Department of Commerce and Community Affairs. If you are going to start up a whole other Bureau and put in another 12.5 percent that is going to substantially reduce the 136  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 amount of money that goes from this tax into the General Revenue Fund for which we... we fund education, mental health, public aid and all these wonderful things that everybody is concerned about. So how can we possibly think about voting for a Bill that is going to take money out of the General Revenue Fund to the tune of about... well, if it's ten percent, it would be 3.3 million. This is 12.5 percent, so whatever that figures out to be. Over four million dollars to fund a Bureau of Tourism and Convention when we already have one. It's just totally ridiculous, and the Amendment that was put on to allow for grants to independent and private development agencies and tourism organization, which I think could be used to fund Chicagofest in the future or other festivals around the state. I think this is a total waste of money and should be defeated."

"Thank you. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Krska. The Gentleman from Cook moves that the previous question be put. All those in favor of the previous... of the previous question, signify by saying 'aye', those opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, and the previous question will be put. Mr. Terzich to close."

"Well, yes, Mr. Speaker, I think tourism should be one of the top priorities in the State of Illinois. That's why we have the hotel and motel tax, that we haven't been doing a job. We have many, many natural resources in the State of Illinois, many, many attractions that certainly need the attention to bring that into the State of Illinois which, in turn, certainly, will increase the revenue of the State of Illinois. That's where all of the hotel and motel tax comes from. It's from the visitors from out-of-state and bring more tourism in the State of Illinois. This will show the priority. The mere fact that that money goes into 137  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 the General Revenue Fund certainly attests to the fact that more should be spent in this particular area. I did mention the fact that the Bill does not provide for sponsoring any individual event, or for leasing, or renting or purchasing any physical facilities. It's to attract tourism in the State of Illinois. We need this Bill, and we need your support."

"The question is, "Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting "aye", those opposed vote "no". Voting is now open. Mr. Bopp, the Gentleman from McLean, to explain his vote. One minute."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I think it's interesting that currently in the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs in their office of Tourism and Promotion, we already have a travel hotline, seven welcome centers across the state though I think we need more, various promotional literature, local and regional tourism promotion and the Illinois Film Office and the development of that film situation. And without deleting or repealing that current situation, this seems to be a duplication of efforts of which we have become very much accustomed this last Session, to have two of everything. That's why I think we ought not to support this piece of legislation."

"The Gentleman from Edgar, Mr. Woodyard, to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had wanted to ask a question in debate, but rather than that, I will explain my vote. I think you all ought to understand that the way we interpret this Bill is that these grants could also be made to private tourist agencies, and I think that's quite a departure from what we have already been doing. Also, I think you need to also understand that this state also 138  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 generates six and a half billion dollars a year in tourism. I don't think that's doing too bad a job, quite frankly. And the third point is that if we want tourists to come to this state from out-of-state or from overseas, I think it's a little... strange that the Chairman of the Appropriation Committee did introduce an Amendment that would close, close the overseas offices we have."

"The Gentleman from... Hardin, Mr. Winchester. No? Okay. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 63 voting aye, 47 voting "no", 5 voting 'present, and Mr. Woodyard, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Verification."

"The Gentleman from Edgar seeks a verification. Mr. Clerk, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Terzich, requests a Poll of the Absentees. Mr. O'Connell, you wish to be verified? The Gentleman have leave? Yes, Mr. O'Connell, you may leave. Poll of the Absentees."

"Poll of the Absentees."

"Mr. Woodyard, yes."

"Before we start the verification, I think it probably is apropos that you vote me "no"."

"He thought you were going to wait until you saw how it was going to come out. Vote Mr. Woodyard "no", and then poll the absentees, Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of the Absentees. Christensen, Levin. No further."

"Mr. Clerk, poll the Affirmative Roll Call."

"Alexander, Berrios, Bowman, Braun..."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Marzuki, for what purpose do you seek recognition, Sir?"

"Mr. Speaker, change my vote to "aye"."

"Vote Mr. Marzuki 'aye'. Proceed, Mr. Clerk." 139  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Breslin, Brookins, Brummer, Brunsvold, Bullock, Capparelli, Cullerton, Curran, Currie, DeJaegher, DiPrima, Domico, Doyle, John Dunn, Farley, Flinn, Giglio, Giorgi, Greiman, Hicks, Homer, Huff, Hutchins, Jaffe, Keane, Krska, Kulas, Laurino, LeFlore, Leverenz, Marzuki, Matijevich, Nautino, McGann, McPike, Nash, O'Connell, Fanayotovich, Preston, Rea, Rhem, Rice, Richmond, Ronan, Saltsman, Satterthwaite, Shaw, Slape, Steczo, Stuffle..."

"Excuse me. Mr. Turner?"

"Mr. Speaker, can I have leave to be verified, please?"

"The Gentleman has leave to be verified. Ms. Currie? The Lady asks leave to be verified. She also has leave. Proceed, Mr. Clerk. Sorry."

"Taylor, Terzich, Turner, Van Duyne, Vitek, White, Wolf, Younge, Yourell and Mr. Speaker."

"Mr. Woodyard, questions of the Affirmative Roll."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. Breslin."

"Ms. Breslin. Is the Lady in the chamber? She is not. She will be, but she is not now. Remove the Lady from... Remove her from the Roll Call."

"Mr. Speaker, may I ask how many votes we're starting with?"

"Pardon?"

"What's the vote count?"

"Yes. Mr. Clerk? 64 affirmative votes before removing Ms. Breslin."

"Bullock."

"Mr. Bullock. Mr. Bullock in the chamber? How is Mr. Bullock recorded?"

"The Gentleman's recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove the Gentleman from the Roll."

"Capparelli." 140  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Mr. Capparelli is at the door."

"Domico."

"Mr. Domico. Is Mr. Domico in the chamber? How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman's recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove him from the Roll."

"Farley."

"Mr. Farley. Is Mr. Farley in the chamber? How is Mr. Farley recorded?"

"The Gentleman's recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Farley from the Roll. Mr. Levin."

"Leave to be recorded 'aye' and to be verified."

"Record Mr. Levin 'aye' and verify Mr. Levin. All right. Leave, Sir. Proceed, Mr..."

"Bhem."

"Mr. Bhem. Mr. Rhem is right there in his seat. Mr. Preston, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Leave."

"Mr. Preston asks leave to be verified. He has leave, and Ms. Breslin is back. Would you return Ms. Breslin to the Roll Call? Mr. Huff. Mr. Huff asks leave to be verified. Soon we'll all be here alone, and Ms. Braun would like to be... have leave to be verified. Proceed, Mr... And Mr. Brookins would like leave to be verified. They have leave. Mr. Woodyard, before it's just you and I... Return Mr. Donico to the Roll. Mr. Mulcahey."

"Mr. Speaker, please change my vote from 'no' to 'aye'."

"Record Mr. Mulcahey from 'no' to 'aye'. Mr. Pierce."

"Mr. Speaker, would you please change my vote from 'present' to 'aye'? I didn't realize this was part of 141  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Prairie Dog 2000."

"Becord Mr. Pierce from 'present' to 'aye". Mr. Woodyard, further questions of the Affirmative Roll?"

"Laurino."

"ΜΙ. Laurino. Is Nr. Laurino in the chamber? How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman's recorded as voting "aye"."

"Remove Mr. Laurino from the Roll."

"Van Duyne."

"Mr. Van Duyne. Is Br. Van Duyne in the chamber? How is he recorded?"

"The Gentleman's recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Van Duyne from the Roll."

"Kulas."

"MI. Kulas. Is Mr. Kulas in the chamber? How is Mr. Kulas recorded?"

"The Gentleman's recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Bemove Mr. Kulas from the Roll."

"Hicks."

"Mr. Hicks is in his chair."

"Yourell."

"Mr. Yourell. Mr. Yourell is at the rear of the chamber."

"Homer."

"Mr. Homer. Is Mr. Homer in the chamber? How is Mr. Homer recorded?"

"The Gentleman's recorded as voting aye."

"Bemove Mr. Hower."

"Ronan."

"MI. Ronan. Is Mr. Ronan in the chamber? How is Mr. Bonan recorded?"

"The Gentleman's recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Ronan from the Roll." 142  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983

"Did you remove Mr. Homer?"

"I did."

"Giglio."

"Mr. Giglio. Is Mr. Giglio in the chamber? Mr. Giglio. How is Mr. Giglio recorded?"

"The Gentleman's recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Giglio."

"O'Conner... O'Connell."

"Mr. O'Connell. Is Mr. O'Connell... Oh, yes, Mr. O'Connell had leave to be verified."

"Brummer."

"Mr. Brummer. Is Mr. Brummer in the chamber? Mr. Brummer's in his seat. He's wearing sunglasses. Looks like a... tough guy."

"Shaw."

"Mr. Shaw. Mr. Shaw in the chamber? Return Mr. Homer to the Roll. Mr. Shaw. Mr. Shaw is in his seat."

"No further questions, Mr. Speaker."

"On this Bill, there are 60 voting 'aye', 47 'no', 5 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of Economic Recovery, Special Order of Business, appears Senate Bill 1022. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1022, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Pension Tax Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Mr. McGann, the Gentleman from Cook."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the Assembly. Senate Bill 1022 amends the Illinois Income Tax Act. It provides that a taxpayer shall be allowed a credit against the Illinois Income Tax for certain investments in qualified venture businesses. It's a Bill that we have had amended in order to have the liability down to zero. We are happy to answer any questions. We would appreciate 143  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 73rd Legislative Day your support of Senate Bill 1022."

"The Gentleman moves for passage of Senate Bill 1022. On that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Kendall, Mr. Hastert."

"Hould the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates that he'll yield for questions."

"Representative NcGann, this is a Bill... We didn't have this in Committee, did we?"

"I believe that this was an agreed list, if IB not... Pardon me. Excuse me. This was on a discharge Motion."

"Okay. Thank you. You say it's a tax credit?"

"That is correct."

"Okay, and what do you have to do to gualify for the tax credit?"

"Well, what He have to do is ap Illinois venture investment corporation having at least five million in subscribed equity security and investments in the equity securities of at least two qualified venture businesses amounting to at least 50% of its total equity security investments in the same year would be entitled to a credit equal to 3% of the Illinois venture business investment amount." Hastert:

"When you use the term 'venture business", there's some people here might not really know what "venture is. Could you explain what that means?" "That is correct. A venture business is a business enterprise or speculation in which loss is risked in the hope of a profit."

"Do you have any idea what the fiscal impact of this may be?"

FY McGann: "There really actually will be no problem in 1984, but would reduce the 1985 income tax receipts by an undetermined amount. It is not clear what the inflation 144  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 factor is or what it will be used... what factor will be used by the Department of Revenue such as, either, 'Report for the United States Department of Commerce' or 'The United States Department of Labor'."

"So there... there's no real clear impact of what that might be. Is that correct?"

"Well, presently not, I think it's like the title of it, it's a venture. And we won't know until we have an experience factor just exactly how it is... what impact it will have on the state. I do believe that it will probably be one of these helpful moves in a direction that we have not attempted to go before."

"Is there a limit? I mean, is there a floor? Is this looked at as a small business enterprise or a big business enterprise? I see in my analysis here, it talks about, 'Venture investment corporations established in Illinois has the subscribed equity security equal to an amount not less than five million dollars.' Is that correct?"

"That is having at least five million dollars."

"So what we're talking about here is not really the small businessman, a guy who starts the corner store, whatever, but it's pretty good size corporations. Is that correct?"

"I'm sorry. Was that a question?"

"Yeah, I'm saying if a..."

"Denny, I'm sorry. Would you mind repeating your..."

"With a five million dollar floor then, it's not really for the guy who starts the corner store down the street. It's a pretty good size investment."

"Oh, no. It could be for that individual, that individual ownership, or it could be for a large corporation, we'll say."

"All right. Thank you, Representative McGann." 145  73rd Legislative Day

"Thank you."

"With all due respect to the Sponsor of this Bill, I think one thing that we have to look at is it does again provide some tax credits against the income tax, against the tax base that we have in the State of Illinois. I'm not sure that that's a..."

"We're going to have to hold. The recording devices went out on us for a moment or two, and I know that you would want to have your words recorded for history. So we will just stand at ease for a moment or two. Mr. Dunn, who apparently has no concern whether he's recorded for posterity, proceed."

"Mr. Speaker, I just suspect there're probably a lot of Members who would just as soon their Bills were not recorded for posterity. Maybe you can ask for that Order, and I bet you'd have a lot of people come forward."

"Special Order of Anonymous Bills. We'll get to it later in the day. And now, Mr. Hastert, the Gentleman from Kendall, on the Bill."

"Well, to conclude, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I just want to remind this Assembly that the State of Illinois, according to this Bill, will more or less grubstake or put in the first 150,000 dollars in any business that goes over five million dollars in the State of Illinois. The only thing that takes to qualify this is that it's going to increase employment. If it's a venture business, it's probably going to do that anyway. I think it's a dangerous precedent. I guess I've stood up on this floor before and said that we have to be very, very careful about destroying the tax base in the State of Illinois because if you continue to do that, you might have to pass an income tax. We've heard that before. I just think that maybe a negative vote would be appropriate on this Bill in 146  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE all due respect to the Sponsor. Thank you." June 27, 1983

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Edgar, Mr. Woodyard."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he'll yield for questions."

"Yes, two questions. Number one, with a five million dollar cap, say that on a given day we reach that five million dollar tax credit limitation, and yet, there's another six or eight applications out there to be processed. Who determines who gets the tax credit and who doesn't?"

"Mr. McGann. Turn on Mr. McGann."

"Would you kindly detail once again that question for me? Please."

"Didn't you say that this has a five million dollar cap?"

"No, this does not have a..."

"There's no cap?"

"It doesn't have a cap."

"It could be anything?"

"It's... In order for them to qualify, they must have at least, at least, five million..."

"Okay."

"... in subscribed equity."

"Alright. Second question. Is it true in there that somebody has to determine what a *qualified venture capital is, venture capital investment... what a... in order for it to qualify for the tax credit?

"I think we qualify that in here. I would just like to quote, if I may, 'A qualified venture business...' Mr. Speaker, could we have some order? I can't hear the questions. I can't..."

"The Gentleman is correct. Please." 147  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983

"I think this is an important piece of legislation."

"Let us give Mr. McGann our attention and our courtesy. Mr. McGann, proceed."

"The qualified venture business, Representative, "A venture business located in Illinois which increases employment in this state and which qualifies as a small business as defined by the Federal Small Business Administration"."

"Okay. Thank you. Mr. Speaker, to the Bill."

"Proceed Mr. Woodyard."

"As we took testimony and conducted hearings over the state this past spring on the two Committees, Economic Recovery and Small Business, I don't recall of one single private entrepreneur in the venture capital business, which is that very high risk capital, that wanted the State of Illinois involved in any way, shape or form in that business. And quite frankly, one of the reasons being that the State of Illinois does not have the expertise in that kind of venture capital, and I think this is a bad move to be issuing tax credits because of that. I urge a 'no' vote."

"Further discussion? There being none, Mr. McGann to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the Assembly. If I could have your attention for a couple of moments just to say a few words about the importance of this piece of legislation. I have to agree with Representative Hastert. I would not be one that would promote any erosion in the tax base, but for many years we've tried many, many approaches to try to do something for small business in the state. All these approaches have seemed to fail to date. What we're asking here is to give an opportunity to the small business to get off the ground to give them an 148  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 opportunity to have this tax credit. As we all know, small business probably employs more employees, more than anyone in the state in any other areas. Why not give them the opportunity? Let's give them a chance in these difficult times. That's why we have this Senate Eill 1022, to try to help. I would ask for your support with a green light on the voting record. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed will vote 'nay'. Voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 66 voting 'aye', 48 voting "no", 2 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of Economic Recovery, Special Order of Business, appears Senate Bill 1026. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1026, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to create the Small Business Division in the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Bureau, Mr. Mautino."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like the opportunity to open, respond to questions and have Representative Stuffle close. In that regard, Senate Bill 1026, basically upgrades the small business interests of our state. It puts it into a division to consolidate all the functions related to small business in the state under the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs. The original concept of the Bill is... remained within that legislation, and we adopted Amendment #2. Amendment #2 provides that the retention of funds may not be used to train persons in occupations similar to those in which workers in the same 149  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 occupation or from the same plant have been laid off within the prior year. There was consideration and a lot of discussion presented on those provisions adopted in Amendment #2. In that regard, we have drafted the legislation in Amendment #2 to correspond totally with the rules, regulations and procedures under the CETA Act, the Joint Training - JTPA Act, and those are now currently in the statute as it pertains to JTPA Funds and the requirements. The legislation, I believe, is needed for a continuation of the Small Business Division within the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs. By the same token, the Amendment addresses a situation which has occurred in an area of my legislative district, specifically Kewanee, Illinois, when those funds used for retraining individuals, retrain new individuals, while at the same time there was a ready, able and experienced work force from the same facility on hand that we could have used those funds to a better degree in another area. For those reasons and because I think that the small business community in our hearings throughout the State of Illinois asked for an all encompassing division to be within the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs, I ask for the adoption, the acceptance and the support for House... Senate Bill 1026. Be happy to answer any questions."

"The Gentleman moves for passage of Senate Bill 1026. On that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Edgar, Mr. Woodyard."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not in the way of a question, certainly, but as a comment, I want all of you to realize that this also does contain that Amendment that requires the written concurrence of the unions before the ITP Funds can be used. And also, many of the Bills that we are passing are of a very duplicative nature. I don't know how 150  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 anybody can tell where we will be with the passage of this kind of legislation. The third point I think you all ought to be aware of, there was a survey taken not too long ago by NFIB in which their main priority was for government to leave them alone, to stay out of small business. Many of these Bills we are doing just the opposite. We are again promoting rules and regulations to be imposed on small business, and I would urge a 'no' vote."

"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 78 voting 'aye', 38 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On Special Order of Business, Economic Recovery, appears Senate Bill 1027. Mr. Clerk, call the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1027, a Bill for an Act creating the Illinois Municipal Financing Agency. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Giorgi."

"Mr. Speaker, the synopsis is not correct. All this Bill does is, under the provision of Amendment 2 which is the new Bill, the State Treasurer is authorized to give preference when choosing banks for the deposit of state funds to those banks which have put up as collateral for the state's deposits notes or bonds issued by units of local government in Illinois or of certain state-wide revenue bond authorities. The other is, in regard to the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs, the Department is authorized to assist any home rule unit of government upon the request of that unit of local 151  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 government putting together for sale mortgage revenue bonds authorized to be issued under the Federal Mortage Subsidy Bond Act of 1880. We discussed this fully on the Amendment stage and urge the support of this Fill."

"The Gentleman moves for passage of Senate Bill 1027. On that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DeWitt, Mr. Vinson."

"Yes, will the Gentleman yield to a guestion?"

"Indicates that he will."

"Representative, the underlying Fill, the municipal bonding, is that totally deleted from this thing?"

"Positively, explicitly and implicitly."

"You don't even like that any more?"

"It's wiped out of my mind."

"Now, is there any way in which there is any compulsion on local governments to combine their bonds in this thing?"

"All permissive."

"All permissive."

"Positively. Clairvoyantly. Is that the word?"

"I trust you."

"Thank you, Sam."

"Mr. Vinson, have you concluded your remarks? Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 111... 112 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On Special Order of Business, Economic Recovery, appears Senate Bill 1033. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1033, a Bill for an Act to create the 152  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 Illinois Neighborhood Corps Act. Third Reading of the Pill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Berrios."

"This Bill establishes the Neighborhood Corps Program to be administered by the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs to recruit individuals to operate energy conservation, waste management, commercial development and redevelopment in other projects designated to assist in neighborhood economic development. The salaries of the participants will be paid through the Federal Community Service Block Grant Program, funds available under the Jobs Training Partnership Act and other funds appropriated by the General Assembly. And I would ask for a favorable vote."

"The Gentleman moves for passage of Senate Bill 1033, and on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from... The Gentleman from Edgar, Mr. Woodyard."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Question of the Sponsor, please?"

"Indicates that he will."

"Is there an appropriation for this Bill, Representative?"

"Right now, no."

"In whose budget would it be if there were one?"

"I... I think DCCA's. Yeah, it would be an appropriation through DCCA."

"How many jobs would this actually create in the entire state?"

"It all depends on how many municipalities would want to participate in the program because it's a fifty-fifty project."

"Well, it looks to us with... from our staff analysis, if the entire amount of money were matched, that we're 153  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 talking maximum of 80 jobs in the entire state, and I don't think we're going to solve many problems in a state of eleven and a half million people like that."

"It's... under my understanding, it's suppose to be a heck of lot more than that."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from DeWitt, Mr. Vinson."

"Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"Indicates he will."

"Representative, is the state required to pay the minimum wage into this program?"

"That would be determined by the rules and regulations by the Department."

"So they could actually pay under the minimum wage if they so desired?"

"I guess so. Yes."

"Number two, are you familiar with the Workfare Program that we've enacted under General Assistance and, I believe, APDC?"

"No."

"Would you think that we could just have welfare recipients, as a requirement for doing... for getting their welfare checks, do this work?"

"Would you repeat that?"

"Would you... Would you think that we could just have the same work done by welfare recipients as a requirement for getting their welfare checks?"

"Well, I don't know. We're really talking about specialists to get neighborhood programs going, so if they would fit the category, you know, I would hope that they would participate."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, to the Eill."

"Proceed, Sir." 154  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

June 27, 1983 "I'm sure the Sponsor has the finest intentions in regard to this Bill, and I'm certain that he wants to improve his neighborhood as a result of the Bill, but it would seem to me that we're sitting here in a situation where the minimum wage would not necessarily be applied to these people. And even beyond that, we could just deal with the problem with workfare requirements for welfare recipients to get their checks, and I don't believe we need a fancy program and a big appropriation to do that. We already spend two and a half billion dollars through public aid for that purpose. And for those reasons, I would oppose the Bill."

"The Lady from DuPage, Ms. Karpiel."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, I suppose there's not much hope in defeating this Bill, since it's also one of those that is under the Prairie Dog, whatever, Representative Pierce was talking about before. Prairie... Prairie, whatever... State. I'm only quoting one of your Representatives, Representative. But Representative Berrios, if I may ask a question?"

"Proceed. You may indeed."

"I don't even remember this coming out of Executive, to tell you the truth. It must have been on one of our... our Agreed Bill lists that I don't remember. And I'm sorry it did, to tell you the truth, but it seems to have SO many problems. First of all, in one part of our analysis, it says that, "Each person selected by DCCA and the municipality shall be assigned to work full-time on behalf of the residents and businesses within one neighborhood. Such individuals shall work in cooperation with local neighborhood groups. What... What... How is this thing going to work? Could you tell me? Each municipality in conjunction with DCCA is going to have to pick a person that's going to be put into this Corps?" 155  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"If the question is, will each municipality pick their own people in the work in different areas?"

"Well, in conjunction with the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs. From reading this, it sounds as if both of these Departments together have to make the decision on who will be chosen for the corps"

"Yes, they... they will both. Just be cool, guys."

"Do both of these..."

"From my understanding, DCCA will set up all the rules and regulations. It's up to municipalities to come into the program, you know, if they choose so. You know, I don't know that every municipality will choose to come into this."

"The way it is worded, say a municipality does choose to get into this program, and they are now selecting the people that are going to work in this neighborhood corps. And it sounds to me, or the way I read this, that both of the municipality and DCCA will have to sign off on the hiring of this person."

"Sounds good."

"Sounds good? I think it sounds like an administrative nightmare to tell you the truth. The corps members will not be working during normal business hours. Can you tell me why that is?"

"I don't... That's political activities, that they're not to participate in political activities while out working."

"Oh, our analysis says that, 'The corps personnel.... Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. I'm sorry. The funding of this neighborhood corps is an equal share funding between the state and the municipality. The state's share, I understand, is going to be somewhere about 330,000 dollars for the first year. Is that correct?" 156  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"The requested appropriation was 212,000."

"212? Well, the Democrat... the Senate Democratic Caucus says that the state's share of the first year of this will be about 330,000 dollars, so you're not asking for quite that much. To the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed."

"This whole Bill just seems like an administrative nightmare. The... I'm not even sure that you can use the money, again, from the Joint Training Partnership Act... funding cannot be used these neighborhood corps. Again, I will just reiterate that if we have got a federal program, a block grant, that is going into the Job Training Partnership Act, the purpose of those funds are to retrain individuals so that they can have, you know, a job and a living wage for the rest of their lives. These funds are not... should not be played with for all kinds of nice sounding little programs like Conservation Corps and Neighborhood Corps and all these kinds of things. These funds are supposed to be set aside for those individuals who have laid out of... who are out of work, out of job that will never come back that... jobs that will never come back and to retrain them for their... so they have employment for the rest of their lives. The more money we keep taking out of those kinds of... for all these kinds of programs, for Prairie 2000's and whatever they are is simply not fair to those individuals who could benefit, really benefit from these programs and not from a political boondoggle. And I urge a vote 'no'."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Krska."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman from Cook, moves the previous question be put. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', those opposed 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, 157  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 the 'ayes' have it and the previous question will be put. Mr. Berrios to close."

"I, you know, all the funds that will be granted, you know, will be at DCCA's discretion. 'Speaks in Spanish." Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'nay'. Si? All in favor vote 'si', those opposed vote 'no'. The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Hallock, to close... for explaining his vote."

"Explain my vote. 'Speaks in Spanish'."

"The Gentleman from Marion, Mr. Friedrich, to explain his vote in any language he prefers."

"I'11... I'11 do it in English. That's the language of the land."

"Proceed, Sir."

"Mr. Speaker, I wanted to ask the Sponsor a question since this thing is not quite clear. I wondered if in Chicago, Alderman Vrdolyak or Mayor Washington would be handling this and deciding who got the jobs. I think that's important on both sides of the aisle. But in any event... any event, I can see where this is going to be a real political boondoggle."

"The Gentleman from Hardin, Mr. Winchester, to explain his vote."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. On a little bit more serious note, I'll speak a little hillbilly. But, I think that the Membership should know that the whole premise of this Bill is that there will be federal... federal monies becoming available to the state for this type of program. The CETA program, which allows for public service programs, will expire October 1st. Then that will be repl... replaced by a job training program, the Job Training 158  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Partnership Act. There are no provisions in that Act for anything other than training - no public works program. There are 1,278 municipalities in this state. If each one asks for one job, the state's share, because that's the way it is in the legislation, it reverts back to the state the General Revenue Fund, would be responsible for 2,158,000 dollars. That's 50%. The municipalities pay the other 50%. So based on that, I would ask for a 'no' vote."

"Have all voted who wish? Mr. Marzuki to explain his vote."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. A lot of words have been bandied about with young adult training programs. Youth Conservation Corps and so on. There are all kinds of jobs that we need in this state to conserve our resources. I think that it's time that we recognize that that kind of training is legitimate training. We hear only about high tech. It's time that we thought about those things which are going to be necessary to keep this planet together. Thank you."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 68 voting 'aye", 47 voting "no" and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Special Order of Business, Economic Recovery, appears Senate Bill 1034. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1034, a Bill for an Act to amend the Civil Administrative Code of Illincis. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Jefferson, Mr. Hicks. ㄷ. Hicks, proceed."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Senate Bill 1035 is a... 1034, excuse me, is a Bill from the Department of Agriculture providing 159  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 for consulting service and expor... for an exporta... exporters of processed agriculture products throughout the state. What it basically does is, we are asking the Department of Agriculture to set up a group to help on the different agriculture products throughout the state to be exported overseas. We're asking for anyone who's doing this type of work that the Department of Agriculture to help them in getting our... our different products, our different agriculture products exported overseas. I'd be happy to answer any questions... can on the Bill."

"The Gentleman moves for passage of Senate Bill 1034. On that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from McLean, Mr. Ropp."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I'd just like to say this is another ongoing in a series of duplicating efforts that we already have in the State of Illinois, and I'm sure this will pass. And those of you who want to continue to duplicate all the efforts that we are currently now doing, I'm sure will vote green and the rest of us will vote red."

"Further discussion? Further discussion? There being none, the question is, "Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote... 'no'. Voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 77... 76... On this Bill, there are 76 voting 'aye', 35 voting 'no'. Mr. Bowman 'aye'. 77 voting 'aye', 35 'no', none 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Special Order of Business, Economic Recovery, appears Senate Bill 1035. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1035, a Bill for an Act to amend the 160  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Illinois Farm Development Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Vermilion, Mr. Stuffle."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this is the last Bill in the series of the Prairie 2000 economic recovery Bills. I would ask leave that you let my hyphenated principal Sponsor, Representative Hoodyard, on the Republican side close, if that's necessary. This Bill is identical now, after Amendment, to a Bill amended in the Senate that we passed out of the House with over a 100 votes. It expands the purposes and the revenue bond authority, if you will, of the Agricultural Development Fund that we've had in place for a couple of years. I think it's an important Bill to the agricultural community. It sets out loan limitations with regard to borrower limits and sets out a new definition of agribusiness that may participate in the program. At this point, I know of no opposition to the Bill and would ask for an Affirmative Roll Call."

"Yourell in the Chair. Is there discussion? Representative Hoodyard."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If there's no other questions, I would close on this Bill. As Representative Stuffle indicated, this has been a highly successful program this past year when we first implemented it, and this is an expansion to increase the bond authority and also include agribusiness in the is program. And, as I say, it has been a very successful program. I would urge your 'aye vote."

"Further discussion? Representative Stuffle to close."

"I think Representative Hoodyard closed. Simply ask for an Affirmative Roll Call."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1035 pass?' 161  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 All those in favor vote 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 108 voting 'aye', 4 voting 'no'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative 'Friedrich' 'aye'. For what reason does the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Greiman, arise?" :

"Mr. Bullock... I mean... Mr. Stuffle has a Motion, I think."

"Mr. Stuffle, for what reason do you arise?"

"Pursuant to Rule 73(a) and having voted on the prevailing side, I would now move to reconsider the vote by which Senate Bill 1311 failed."

"The Gentleman has moved that having voted on the prevailing side to reconsider the vote by which Senate Bill 311 failed... 1311. Is there discussion? Representative Brummer."

"Yes, I was curious how we got to this Order of Business having, voted on this previously today."

"The Chair recognized the Gentleman on Motions to reconsider."

"Is that Motion in writing?"

"Yes, it is."

"Does it need to be on the Calendar?"

"No. Further questions?"

"How many votes does the Motion..."

"60."

"Okay. With regard to that issue, I would urge a 'no' vote on the Motion to reconsider. We spent a good deal of time on this two or three hours ago. There were 55 'yes' votes on that on a verification. In fact, there were several others who were not removed who were off the floor 162  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 at that time. There are a limited number of hours prior to the time that Bills fail at midnight tonight. Obviously, not all Bills are going to be heard. This one had a lengthy... This one had a lengthy vote, I mean a lengthy discussion. We spent a good deal of time on it. It's... It's... It is the Bill dealing with a double or triple income tax exemption or deduction for contributions to certain community groups, and I would urge a "no" vote on the Motion to reconsider."

"The Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing."

"Mr. Speaker, I move that Motion lay on the table."

"Representative Greiman."

"Well, I... I don't want to take a lot of the business of the House, but during the verification there was... there was a task force going on, several Members were off the floor, and for that re... and that's the only reason why I have brought this up. I have lost many Bills on the floor of the House, and I lose them, I lose them. But I did bring this up at the request of the Senate Sponsor for that reason, because there was a task force going on at the time. People were off the floor."

"All right. The Gentleman has moved to lay the Motion to reconsider on the table. That requires a majority of those voting on the question. All those in favor of the Gentleman's Motion to lay on the table will vote 'aye', those opposed will vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Stuffle."

"Yes, I would hope that we would reject the Motion to table. Clearly, on this Bill, there was misunderstanding by some people. Clearly, on this Bill, there would have been the requisite number, I believe, to pass it or at 163  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 least close to that. Many were taken off because of some other problems that were going on at that time, and I think that the House and Senate Sponsors deserve a vote. And we ought to defeat this Motion to table."

"Excuse me. What reason does Representative Piel arise?"

"It's a nondebatable Motion."

"You're correct. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 53 voting 'aye', 60 voting 'no', and the Gentleman's Motion to table fails... to lay on the table fails. Now, in regard to the Motion to reconsider the vote by which Senate Bill 1311 failed. All those in favor... All those in favor will vote 'aye', those opposed will vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 65 voting 'aye', 47 voting 'no'. The Gentleman's Motion to reconsider the vote prevails. Now... The Bill is now on the Order of Third reason... Reading. Representative Greiman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the House for its consideration, and I appreciate an 'aye' vote. We debated this. I believe it to be an appropriate measure, and in the spirit of current economic situations, I would thank you very much for an 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman has moved the passage of Senate Bill 1311, and on that question, Representative Brummer."

"Yes, I would again reiterate my objection to this. This will be the fourth vote on this procedure or otherwise today. It's the same bad Bill that we defeated earlier, and we ought to defeat it again. I would urge 'no' votes..."

"The Gentleman from Kendall, Representative 164  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

June 27, 1983 "Well, I agree. I'll go along. I think we ought to defeat this Motion. I think this is a... We've discussed this. We've talked about destroying the tax base in the State of Illinois, and when you're giving corporations 200 or 300 percent tax credit or tax deduction on investment and contributions, we won't have any tax base left. We might as well put the whole darn thing on state income tax."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Matijevich."

"Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved the previous question. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. The previous question prevails. The main question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1311 pass?' Take the record, Mr. Clerk. All in favor say 'aye'... vote 'aye'. Okay. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 60... Representative Curran 'aye'. On this question, there are 63 'aye', 50 'no'. Representative Hastert."

"If, in fact, this Bill reaches or has 62 votes, I'd like to verify it."

"The Gentleman has requested a verification. On this question, there are 63 voting 'aye', 50 voting 'no', and this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. The Gentleman has the... The Chair spoke in error. This vote will be verified. Representative Johnson, for what reason do you rise?"

"Leave to be verified."

"Does the Gentleman have leave? Leave being granted, the Gentleman's verified. Okay. Mr. Clerk, proceed with the verification. Mr. Greiman, do you wish to 165  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 poll the absentees? Poll the absentees, Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of the Absentees. Bullock, Christensen, Daniels. No further."

"Proceed with the verification, Mr. Clerk."

"Alexander, Berrios, Birkinbine, Bowman, Braun, Brookins, Capparelli, Cullerton, Curran, Currie, DeJaegher, DiPrima, Domico, Doyle, John Dunn, Farley, Flinn, Giorgi, Greiman, Hannig, Hoffman, Homer, Huff, Hutchins, Jaffe, Johnson, Keane, Koehler, Krska, Kulas, Laurino, LeFlore, Leverenz, Levin, Marzuki, Matijevich, McPike, Nash, Panayotovich, Pierce, Preston, Rea, Rhem, Rice, Richmond, Ronan, Saltsuan, Shaw, Slape, Stec20, Stuffle, Taylor, Terzich, Topinka, Turner, Vinson, Vitek, White, Wolf, Younge, Yourell, Zwick, Mr. Speaker."

"Questions of the affirmative, Mr. Hastert."

"Ferrios."

"Berrios is in his chair."

"Farley."

"Representative Farley. Representative Farley. Gentleman in the chamber? Remove hin."

"Donico?"

"Representative Domico. Representative Domico. The Gentleman in the in chambers? Remove him."

"John Dunn."

"For what reason does Bepresentative Zwick arise?"

"May I have leave to be verified, Mr. Speaker?"

"The Lady asks leave to be verified."

"No."

"No. Proceed with the verification."

"John Dunn."

"Representative John is in the... Dunn is in the aisle." 166  73rd Legislative Day

"Farley." STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983

"You already called Farley."

"Hannig."

"Representative Hannig is in the aisle."

"Huff."

"Representative Huff. Representative Huff. The Gentleman in the chambers? Remove him."

"Keane."

"Representative Keane is in the back of the chamber."

"Koehler."

"Representative Koehler is in her seat."

"Laurino."

"Representative Laurino is in his seat."

"Representative Panayotovich."

"Representative Panayotovich is in his seat."

"Representative Rea."

"Fardon me?"

"Bea,"

"Representative Rea is in his seat."

"Representative Rice."

"Representative Rice is in his seat."

"Representative Ronan."

"Representative Ronan. Representative Ronan. Representative Ronan in the chamber? Remove him."

"Steczo."

"Representative Steczo is in his seat."

"Taylor."

"Representative Taylor. Representative Taylor. Return Domico, Representative Domico, to the Roll Call. Is Representative Taylor in the chambers? Remove him."

"Terzich."

"Fardon me?" 167  73rd Legislative Day STATE OP ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Hastert: "Representative Terzich." June 27, 1983

"Representative Terzich is in his seat."

"Topinka."

"Representative Topinka is in ber seat."

"Eraun."

"Representative Braun. Representative Braun."

"Representative..."

"Bepresentative Taylor has returned. Bestore him to the Roll Call. Is Representative Braun in the chambers? Remove her."

"Representative Turner."

"Representative Turner. Is Representative Turner... Is the Gentleman in the chambers? Remove him."

"What's the... I think that's all. Representative Flinn."

"Representative Flinn. Bepresentative Flinn. Representative Flinn is in the rear of the chamber."

"What's the score? Did you call Representative Turner? You did call that, didn't you?"

"Yes, we removed him, Sir."

"I'm finished."

"Representative Mulcahey. Representative Hicks, did you want to be recognized? Representative Hicks votes "aye'. Representative Mulcahey votes 'aye'. What's the count, Mr. Speaker... Mr. Clerk? On this question, there are 60 voting 'aye", 48 voting "no", 2 voting present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Greiman moves, having voted on the prevailing side, he moves to reconsider the vote by which Senate Fill 1311 passed. Representative... All right. That Motion, I've been told, is out of order. Appearing on the Calendar on the Order of Concurrence are the following Bills on which nonconcurrence 168  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Motions have been... have been filed. June 27, 1983 Senate Bill 3... House Bill 384, Representative Birkinbine. 384. Representative Birkinbine."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I move to nonconcur with the Amendment to House Bill 384. You may recall that that Bill originally was designed to allow Legislators to use their district funds to rent towards purchase of items rather than to rent in perpetuity. That Bill was changed in the Senate to become a Compensation Review Board. The Speaker of the House has indicated that there are some clarifications problems, and I think it's... his comments are well directed, and if they can be, they should be worked out in a Conference Committee."

"To clarify this Order of Business, written Motions have not been filed with the Clerk, but the Sponsors of the Motions to nonconcur have indicated to the Clerk that they will file them. Are there... Is there discussion on the Gentleman's Motion to nonconcur? There being no discussion, does the Gentleman... The Gentleman moves to nonconcur on House Bill 384, Senate Amendment #1. All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Gentleman's Motion prevails. Appearing on the... Appearing on the Order of Concurrence is a Motion filed on Senate... House Bill 514 to nonconcur, Representative Stuffle Steczo, Representative Steczo."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. House Bill 514 was amended twice in the Senate and dealt with the Sheriffs' Pension Code and the Cook County Employees' Pension Fund Article. Amendment #2 in the Senate inadvertently deleted Amendment #1. So I would ask for nonconcurrence on Amendments 1 and 2 to House Bill 514."

"1 and 2, Representative?" 169  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"1 and 2, Mr. Speaker." June 27, 1983

"The Gentleman has moved to nonconcur on Senate Amendments #1 and 2 to House Bill 514. Representative Johnson."

"I wonder if the Gentleman might just temporarily take this out of the record. We were given the courtesy on a number of other Bills to have been given advanced word of this nonconcurrence. I just want to have a chance to review the Amendment, and then we can come right back to it."

"I'll accede to the Gentleman's request, Mr. Speaker."

"Thank you."

"Out of the record. Appearing on the Order of Concurrence is House Bill 714, Representative Stuffle."

"Mr. Speaker and Members, I would move to noncon..."

"For what reason does Representative Vinson rise? Proceed Representative Stuffle."

"I would move to nonconcur in this Senate Amendment on House Bill 714. There's a difference of opinion with regard to the limiting date placed on the Bill by the Senate. We're going to hope to put this in a Conference Committee and try to clean that up. So I would now move to nonconcur in the Senate Amendment."

"The Gentleman has moved to nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 714, and on that question, Representative Cullerton. Representative Johnson."

"We've reviewed this Motion and the Amendment, and I would support Representative Stuffle's Motion."

"Further discussion? There being no further discussion, the Gentleman has moved to nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 714. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, and the Gentleman's Motion prevails. Appearing on the Order of 170  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Concurrence is House Bill 798, Representative Matijevich."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I really don't have any problem with the Senate Amendment #2 to House Bill 798, but I've been requested by the Secretary of State that he does have problem and would like to use my Bill as a vehicle to resolve that problem. In the spirit of cooperation with the Secretary of State, I am now moving to nonconcur to Senate Amendment #2 to House Bill 798."

"The Gentleman has moved to nonconcur in Senate Amendment #2 to House Bill 798, and on that question, Representative Johnson, is recognized."

"I would rise in support of Representative Matijevich's Motion."

"Further discussion? The question is, Shall Senate Amendment #2 to House Bill 987... (sic 798) be nonconcurred in? All those in favor will say 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Gentleman's Motion prevails. Appearing on the Order of Concurrence is House Bill 1108, Representative Giglio. Representative Giglio in the chamber? Out of the record. Appearing on the Order of Concurrence is House Bill 1117, Representative Steczo."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Amendment #1, Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1117 simply added one dollar to various items concerning capital development bond authorization levels. It's my understanding from talking to the Senate Sponsor that House Bill 1117 is one of only two Bills that are still alive that deal with capital development bond authorizations, and it is at the request of the Senate Sponsor that this Bill be sent to Conference Committee just in case it's needed as a vehicle for the various capital development bond authorizations. And I would move to nonconcur with Senate Amendment #1 to House 171  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Bill 1117."

"The Gentleman has moved to nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1117. And on that question, any discussion? All those... The question is, 'Shall the Gentleman's Motion to nonconcur prevail?' All those in favor will say 'aye', opposed "no". The 'ayes' have it. The Gentleman's Motion prevails. On the Order of Concurrence is House Bill 1121. Representative John... John Dunn."

"I move to nonconcur in the Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1121. Senate Amendment #1 is a Bill (sic-Amendment) which inserts a definition of medical practice other than the definition which was originally in this Bill which is the Hearing Aid Consumer Protection Act."

"The Gentleman has moved to nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1121. Representative Dunn, did you want to concur in Amendments 2 and 3?"

"All I want to do at this time is nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1. I think that's all we have to do. I can nonconcur in all of them. It doesn't make any difference. Okay, we'll nonconcur in all three of them. That will be..."

"The Gentleman has moved to nonconcur in Senate Amendments #1, 2, 3 to House Bill 1121. And on that question, no discussion. All those in favor will say 'aye', those opposed "no". The 'ayes' have it. The Gentleman's Motion prevails. Appearing on the Order of Concurrence is House Bill 1143, Representative Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move to nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1143. I've discussed this with the Minority Leadership, and they approve of the nonconcurrence. I'd ask..." 172  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMELY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

June 27, 1983 "The Gentleman has moved to nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1143. Any discussion? Being no discussion, the question is, 'Shall the Gentleman nonconcur?' All those in favor will say 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Gentleman's Motion carries, and the nonconcurrence prevails. Appearing on the Order of Concurrence is House Bill 1192, Representative Koehler."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I move to nonconcur with Senate Amendment #1 and Senate Amendment #2. Senate Amendment #1 was a Bill that lost in the Senate giving one additional Supreme Court Law... Justice a junior law clerk and setting the salary. Amendment #2 provided job protection for court reporters. I would move to nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 and #2."

"The Lady has moved to nonconcur in Senate Amendments #1 and 2 to House Bill 1192. Is there discussion? There being no discussion is... There being no discussion, the question is, 'Shall the Motion prevail?' All those in favor will say 'aye', opposed 'no', and the Motion carries. Appearing on the Order of Concurrence is House Bill 1257, Representative Breslin. Out of the record. Appearing on the Order of Concurrence is House Bill 1925, Representative Koehler."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I move to nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1925. Senate Amendment #1 was an Amendment that turned out to have technical difficulties as brought out by the Department of Conservation and the Department of Transportation. They have agreed that this Amendment should be taken off the Bill. It was a land exchange Bill and proved to be technically incorrect. I would move for nonconcurrence with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1925. Thank you." 173  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

June 27, 1983 "The question is... Is there discussion? On the Motion, all those in favor will say aye", opposed no. The 'ayes' have it, and the Lady's Motion prevails. Appearing од the Order of Concurrence is House Bill 514. What was that number, Steczo? 514. Bepresentative Steczo." "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I renew my Motion to nonconcur in Senate Amendments #1 and 2 with... in... to House Bill 514."

"The Gentleman has moved to nonconcur in Senate Amendments 1 and 2 to House Bill 514, Is there discussion? All those in favor of the Gentleman's Motion will say 'aye, opposed no. The ayes have it. The Motion carries. For what reasons does Representative Dunn rise, John John Dunn?"

"Mr. Speaker, to go... I would move to reconsider the vote by which we nonconcurred to Senate Amendments 2 and 3 on House Bill 1121. It was my original intention to only nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1, and I was talked out of it. And I think I was right to begin with. So I would... I would like to move to reconsider the vote by which we nonconcurred on Senate Amendments 2 and 3 to House Bill 1121 and ask for leave."

"The Gentleman has moved to reconsider the vote by which Senate Amendments #1, 2 and 3 were nonconcurred in Senate (sic - House) Bill 1121. Does the Gentleman have leave?"

"No. No. I only want to reconsider Senate Amendments 2 and 3."

"2 and 3, okay. Yes, Representative Vinson."

"I wonder if the Gentleman might explain what each Arendment did?"

"Representative Dunn." 174  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"Senate June 27, 1983 Amendment #1, to which I would like a nonconcur, alters the definition of... this is the Hearing Aid Consumer Protection Act, alters the definition of who would be authorized to fit hearing aids without going through the... jumping through all the hoops required by this Act. Medical doctors licensed in all their branches are intended to be exempted. The definition was expanded in the Senate to include everyone mentioned in the Medical Practice Act which includes chiropracters and others. And the Medical Society is aware of what I'm trying to do, and they approve of what I'm trying to do to get the definition back the way it was so that only medical doctors licensed in all branches of medicine will be exempt. The other two Amendments transfer the responsibility to the Department of Public Health which I think is agreed with everybody. And the 2nd Amendment changes some definitions. I really don't recall right now the exact details of that, but it's also an Agreed Amendment."

"Representative Vinson."

"And your intention is to reconsider and, in effect, just to end up nonconcurring in Amendment #1?"

"That is correct"

"I would rise in support of the Gentleman's Motion."

"The Gentleman has moved to reconsider the vote by which Amendments #2 and 3 were nonconcurred in and to let... and to nonconcur in just Amendment #1. Does the Gentleman have leave? Leave, and the Bill will remain here. Representative Matijevich."

"You're going to need a Boll Call vote on those 2 and 3 because he is... I believe. Isn't that right, M.M.? I think he needs... I see. Yes. You're right."

"Appearing on the Order of Concurrence is House Bill 1178, Representative Breslin. Representative 175  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day Matijevich." June 27, 1983

"Yes, he's got to do that Roll Call now because the Bill never come back. When the Senate recedes, that's it. So we have to vote on Senate Amendments 2 and 3 on a Roll Call vote."

"All right. The Gentleman... Let's back up and get off 1178 for just a moment. The Gentleman moves now to concur in Senate Amendments #2 and 3 to House Bill 1121. All those in favor will vote 'aye", those opposed will vote "no". The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 113 voting 'aye, none voting 'no". This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority... This Amendment... This Motion, having received a favorable Majority, is hereby declared adopted. Appearing on the Order of Concurrence is House Fill 1178, Representative Breslin."

"Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen, I would move to nonconcur in Senate Amendment #2 to House Bill 1178. The... I don't disagree with the content of the Amendment, but it is technically out of order."

"The Lady has noved to nonconcur in Senate Amendment #2 to House Bill 1178. Is there discussion?"

"Mr. Speaker, there's been a suggestion that I concur in Senate Amendment #1 first.. If that is proper procedure, I'll do so."

"The Lady has moved to concur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1178. All those in favor will... Representative Vinson."

"Rise in support of the Lady's Motion."

"All those in favor will say "aye', opposed 'no'... vote 'aye", those opposed will vote 'no". The 176  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day voting is open. June 27, 1983 Have all voted Have all voted who wish? who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 110 voting 'aye", no voting 'no', and the Lady's Motion to concur in Senate ANendment #1 to House Bill 1178 prevails. NOW the Lady moves to nonconcur in Senate Amendments #2 to House Bill 1178. Is there discussion? Being no discussion is... the question is, 'Shall the Lady's Motion prevail?' All those in favor will say 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, and the Motion prevails. Appearing on the Order of Concurrence is House Bill 1249, Representative Zwick."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to move to nonconcur Senate Amendment 1, due to some technical problems that we just recently discovered."

"The Lady moves to nonconcur Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1249. And on that question, Representative Cullerton."

"Yes, the Amendment...the Senate Amendment makes the Bill have an immediate effective date. Is the technical problem in the Bill as we passed it out of the House?"

"Yes, it is."

"And could you tell us what the problem is?"

"Could I yield to Representative Vinson for an answer?"

"That will be very fine with me."

"Thank you."

"Representative Vinson."

"Yes, Representative Cullerton, the...as the Bill passed out of the House, it provided a procedure for protecting continuous service for employees from the Legislature who subsequently transferred to administrative agencies. The problem is that it did not protect those transfers for all statuses of appointments in administrative agencies, and we have to redraft it so that it protects it for all state 177  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day assistance."

"Fine, thank you." June 27, 1983

"Is there further discussion? The question is, 'Shall the Motion to nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1249 prevail?' All those in favor will say 'aye", opposed 'no". The 'ayes have it, and the Motion prevails. We're now going to the Subject Matter-Workers' Rights. And Representative Vinson. Representative Vinson, we would like to proceed with Senate Bill 1070 before 336, if that's agreeable."

"I'm sorry, Sir. I was distracted."

"We're now on the Order of Subject Matter-Workers' Right. Instead of hearing Senate Bill 336, we will like to go to Senate Bill 1070. Is that agreeable, first?"

"Be fine with me if you passed them all."

"Alright, appearing on the Order of Subject Matter-Workers' Right is Senate Bill 1070, Representative Matijevich."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, Senate Bill 1070, I feel, is a very important Bill. It does four things. It first extends the asbestosis limitation extending the statute of limitation for asbestosis from three years to twenty-five years, the same as..."

"Excuse me, Mr. Matijevich. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1070, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act concerning injuries and disabilities caused by exposure to asbestos. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Sorry, Mr. Matijevich, proceed."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, as I was saying, it extends the period on filing a claim for asbestosis from three years to twenty-five years, the same as that provided for exposure 178  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 to radiation. And I believe that it is sensible that we do that, because the asbestosis is something that takes a long time. It's like a poison that develops in your system. I come from Waukegan, and we have the John's Manville' Corporation, and I know that I have had many of my friends, who have lost their lives because of working at John's Manville in dealing with the asbestos for many years. And I believe that this is a common sense approach to that problem of asbestosis. You, who understand the black lung disease that faced mine workers, can understand the same thing with those who work and finally do get asbestosis after working with it for Dany years. Also, the Bill, through Representative McPike's Amendment, added one additional commissioner, a sixth commissioner to the Industrial Commission, a nonemployer... nonemployee member, and the Commission could sit into two panels of three each; one employer, one employee and one neutral member. This could double the ability of the Commission to hear oral arguments and should cut in half the current nine to twelve month delay in scheduling oral arguments. The Bill also would provide an expedited procedure for the Industrial Commission itself where an injured worker is not being paid either temporary total or medical benefits. The Commission must hold a hearing within fifteen days of the petition and render a decision within fifteen days of the hearing. As it is now, a hearing before an arbitrator is mandated within that fifteen days, but there is often a year's delay and that causes real problems to those injured workers who should be getting awards. Senate Bill 1070 would also increase the interest rate on workers compensation awards from the current six percent rate to a rate one percent above the prime rate. The low six percent rate is an incentive for insurance companies to appeal the 179  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIFTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 arbitrator's awards. And when the Commission then orders payments, as I said many times a year ΟΙ SO later, the insurance company has made substantially more than the six percent on the money reserved for the award and profits from the difference. The interest rate provided in Senate Bill 1070 will instead provide an incentive to pay awards promptly rather than file frivolous appeals. I believe that every provision of this Bill, Senate Bill 1070, is good. Good for workers. It is good for those who suffer from injuries, and surely it is beneficial to those who suffer from a deadly disease of asbestosis. And I would urge the Members to support it."

"The Gentleman has moved the passage of Senate Bill 1070. And on that question, the Chair recognizes Representative Vinson."

"Yes, will the Gentleman yield for a guestion?"

"The Gentleman indicates he will."

"One of the things, Representative, that you indicated that the Bill would do was to raise the rate, the interest rate, in regard to workers compensation awards. Is that correct?"

"Late awards, yes."

"And is that as a result of Amendment #1 to the Bill?"

"Yes, Sir."

"NOW, I presume that that's as a result of the language on page one and two, lines 21 and 22 on page one, and line one on page two, is that correct?"

"I'm not sure. I...I've got to get the Eill from the file. I got everything in the file but ay Bill, Sam."

"I beg your pardon?"

"I said, I've got everything in the file, but I don't have the Bill right now."

"Well I think you're going to be fascinated by this, 180  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Representative."

"I doubt...I doubt it. I tell you this is...I've handled so many other Bills around here, Sam, this the best one I've got as you know."

"Do...do you have the Bill now? Well let me read you the language, that, I'm talking about, Representative."

"Alright, fine."

"The language I'm talking about...It's the new language is, 'the maximum rate of interest payable by member banks of the federal reserve system on savings deposits as published in Regulation O'."

"Where did you say it was? On what line, so that we find it?"

"The last two lines on page one and the first line on page two."

"Alright, now what do you want to know?"

"Okay, do you know what regulation O is?"

"The main place where it is, Sam, is page 17, rather than one and two."

"Well, what does that language on page one and two do?"

"The discounting of lump sum awards to take into account for inflation, I'm told, Representative Vinson."

"And isn't that the thing that determines how you calculate what the interest rate will be?"

"Not at all."

"What does it do?"

"It's the language on line four and five on page 17. The prime rate on short term commercial loans, in effect, on the day in which the decision is made."

"Well now, let's talk about that language on page one and two, though. Do you know what Regulation O is?"

"You don't want to talk about that language on 17, is that it?" 181  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"No. Let's talk about the language on one and two for a second, and then we'll get to that language. I think you'll find they're interrelated problems. What is Regulation 0?"

"The maximum rate of interest payable by member banks of the federal reserve system on savings deposited as published in Regulation 0."

"Representative, I have a copy of Regulation O here."

"I thought you would."

"And what Regulation O deals with is loans to executive officers, directors and principal shareholders of member banks. Regulation O is the Bert Lance legislation the Congress passed some years back, as you will recall. It deals with interdealings and so forth. It doesn't deal with what you think it deals with and what you state it does in the Amendment. Now Regulation C, and to the Bill, Mr. Speaker, I suppose I...I'll give a copy of Regulation O to Representative Matijevich in a second SO he can understand it."

"Proceed, Sir."

"Regulation O does contain interest rate regulations, but they're very different from Regulation C. which I suspect is what Representative Matijevich really wanted to include in his Bill, and the effect of that is to, in effect, completely change the rate of interest that he wants to charge on these things. And as a result, this Bill is totally flawed. But because Regulation 0, which I will give him, does have interest rate regulations in it, you can't correct that in Enrolling and Engrossing. And as a result, I will ask the Gentleman if he would like to take the Bill out of the record at this time and try to figure out a way to clean it up."

"Best way to clean this Fill up is to get 60 votes at 182  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 least and a lot more, because I'll tell you the people who have, for example, who have asbestosis have waited too long, and also, those have waited too long on these late awards. And I think it is just unfair. What you've done, Sam, is you've tried to pick one little thing that you feel might be a flaw in your mind, but not in my mind. And the rest of the Bill is so good that you won't attack the rest of the Bill, and you know it."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I would point out that this Bill, the primary purpose of which, the primary purpose of which is now to change the interest rate on Industrial Commission awards, late Industrial Commission awards, which might be a good idea or a bad idea. That's something that every Member has to search his soul for. The Bill is so flawed, at this point, that it doesn't have that affect at all. And I would urge a 'no' vote; because, if you vote 'yes' on this, you may actually be lowering the interest rate on Industrial Commission awards. And I'm not sure Representative Matijevich wants to do that."

"Representative Mautino. Use Representative Leverenz's microphone."

"Thank you very much. Representative Matijevich, I agree in total that, as drafted, the provisions are very important and should be adopted. However, I also know what's in whole. And I believe that if you'll check it, you will find that Mr. Vinson is correct in this regard. I think it should be addressed before we do it, because he is correct in his evaluation."

"Representative Ropp."

"Mr. Speaker, would the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he'll yield."

"I understand your concern for this, but I guess I'll ask the question. Why would you extend the statute of 183  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 limitation to twenty-five years when maybe even after that there may be some people who have some health problems, and is this a precedence that might be used for any and all other statutes of limitations that we currently have?"

"Are...are you saying that we should not extend from three to twenty-five, or are you saying..."

"I...I asked you the question why from three to twenty-five, why not, if you feel this is a serious problem, just why not forever as long as a person is alive?"

"Well, I...I think we...we... What we did is we took the precedence that is the same for those who suffer from radiological incidence which is twenty-five years. That too is a slow developing type of disease, and we felt that it would be just as reasonable. I would have had no problems with extending it. I think there are many cases that develop even longer than twenty-five years, because I've seen it happen. The disease of asbestosis is one that just gets a hold of your lungs, and if anybody's been in a "John's Manville Corporation like I have in Waukegan, and I used to go there. In those days, they used to let you campaign around there. Some of the manufacturers don't let you do it any more, especially a Democrat. They have a hell of a time getting on any of these plants. But, those days I use to go in there, and you couldn't breath. And, so that...it grabs a hold of their lungs, and it just eats them away until they finely can't breath, and they die, and a lot of them have."

"Well, doesn't smoke kind of have the same affect, in teras of a cancerous affect on lungs?"

"Well, that's possible, but we're not addressing that in this Bill.."

"Okay, I know we're not addressing it, but it seems to me 184  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 like we're setting kind of precedence here. I guess one of the things too..."

"I have a feeling that you...you would not be for taking off the twenty-five years. So, I'm not sure if you're standing in support or..."

"Well, I'm trying to get some information on which to base a judgment as whether or not to support it or not. I guess the other thing that is some bit of a concern is with the extended period of time. It seems to be a rather large additional cost that will be generated on behalf of the employer, at least the employer community. Is that a... Won't that ultimately increase the cost of workmen's comp and other kinds of insurance programs rather substantially high?"

"I'm sorry, I was still talking about Regulation 0 or Q with my staff person, and I missed all those..."

"Okay, the question is, in our analysis, is that this could certainly increase the costs to the employer community to some ten million to twelve million rather high, and I...That we've already caused businesses throughout the state to absorb increased costs of both workers' comp and unemployment comp, I'm wondering if this is something that you've also taken into consideration?"

"First of all, I think the staff report is in error. If you're talking about...Are you talking about the asbestosis, that would be the additional cost? What part of the Bill...Are you talking about the accelerated process or the asbestosis?"

"Well, I'm only trying to..."

"You're just reading the staff analysis."

"It says the asbestosis claims would be increased some fourty-six hundred new cases."

"Well, is that bad? Is that bad that we're going to 185  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 try to...if somebody suffers from asbestosis, like people that suffered from lung disease, like people that suffered in black lung disease in the workplace, I don't know if that's bad. I think that you have spoken on the floor at different times that we sometimes throw away money for nothing. It is not throwing the money away if awards are given to those who rightfully have awards coming to them because of illnesses that have come about by working in dangerous situations. I think that's good, and I would hope that you think that's good. I would hope that you think it's fair, because I think you speak very often for people who are injured, for those who need rehabilitation and so forth. I've heard you talk about people who need rehabilitation. So I would think you would be in support."

"Well, you're helping me to get a better appreciation for the Bill. The thing that I am...am finally in concern with, as these awards are increased, it also seems that many times attorneys in their work gather substantial amounts and really the benefits to the recipient are negligible, in terms of the total increase in awards, and I'm taking that into consideration, too."

"Thank you. Representative Johnson."

"Just...I'm not asking any of these questions, or this question, Representative Matijevich, trying to attack the Bill. I just want to understand a matter of intent, because I think I'm for the Bill. Asbestosis, as you've indicated, is a very debilitating, horrible illness. What about actions against the manufacturer of the asbestos? What's the governing statute of limitations now, and what would it be after this Bill, if it's anything different, in that area, not against the employer, but against the manufacturer, 'John's Manville' for example?"

"Are you talking about workers' comp actions or 186  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day product liability?"

"No product liability." June 27, 1983

"It would not affect the statute of limitations at all."

"So this is only... The only time "John's Manville would be a respondent or a defendant is for people who work in the factory and are pursuing their action on a workers' compensation basis, is that right?"

"That's correct. That's correct."

"I'd like to see this Bill go farther. "John's Manville has taken, as you know, the recent step of declaring Chapter 13 bankruptcy to eliminate the ability of hundreds of thousands of people and families of decedents who have died from asbestosis, and that's still tied up in the Federal Courts. I'd like to see it go farther, in terms of limitations with respect to product liability cases. But I think it's a significant improvement, and it lends a little humaneness to the law. And I don't think it comes down unfairly on any business groups or anyone else. I think it's a good Bill."

"Thank you."

"Representative Kulas."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved the previous question. All those in favor say 'aye", opposed "no". The 'ayes have it. The previous question has been put. Representative Matijevich to close."

"Mr. Speaker, I think the Bill has been debated. I think you know I feel it's a very good Bill, and I hope you do too, and I'm late for my meeting upstairs. I appreciate your vote."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1070. And on that question, Representative 187  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Birkinbine. The question is, "Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor will vote "aye", those opposed will vote "no". Representative Birkinbine to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was simply going to ask whether or not the Sponsor was aware of the point that Representative Johnson had brought out; that asbestosis is as described and insidious as disease. It... Frankly, it's a natural product. It involves fibers that are virtually invisible to the eye. But the magnitude of the problem and the fact that it is going to have to be solved at the federal level is, I think, what we have to keep in mind here; that the problem is so big and so extensive that it covers not only hundreds of companies across the entire country, companies like 'Manville' that has brought us to a head by going into Chapter 11 to force the government, because their product was used at government directive, such as in building ships, but it could not only undercut literally hundreds and drive into bankruptcy hundreds of companies across the country who didn't even know they were dealing with a hazardous product, because it takes twenty or thirty years for this to happen. But it could also, without federal action, bankrupt perhaps a half a dozen, perhaps ten of the largest insurance companies in the entire country, which is where you and I have a lot of our money invested. It's got to be handled at the federal level..."

"Bring your remarks to a close, Sir."

"...And I think we're just sort of gayly wondering through a mine field here, thinking that we know what we're doing, when it's got to be a federally answered problem."

"Representative Friedrich to explain his vote. One minute."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, we've been dealing 188  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 for the last several months with economic recovery. This certainly shouldn't be in that package, because I think it ought to have an Amendment on it. The last employer to leave the state turn out the lights. We keep imposing stronger and stronger cost on employers and expect them to stay in Illinois and to enlarge in Illinois, to come to Illinois. This is not that kind of a Bill and has nothing to do with my sympathy for those people that have had that problem, but it is certainly a national problem, and we don't want to make it singular to Illinois."

"Representative Giorgi to explain his vote."

"Yeah, Mr. Speaker, just a soft remark, in that some of the arguments I hear against workmen's comp and unemployment insurance is like one of the Legislator's just told me that if a person get hit by a speeding bullet, you guys would claim he ran in front of it."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 80 voting 'aye', 35 voting 'no', and this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1238 has been taken out of the record. Representative Cullerton. Representative Cullerton."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Pursuant to Rule 12 (c), I move that the Special Order of Business Subject Matter-Workers' Rights be modified by continuing this Special Order till 6 p.m., June 27, 1983."

"The Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted. Representative McMaster."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Several minutes ago, I returned from being out in the rotunda to talk to someone, to find that I had inadvertently been voted 'no' on House Bill 1035. I would like to ask permission of the House to change my vote from 'no' to 'yes'. The count on that Bill 189  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day was...Well, June 27, 1983 I don't have it with me, but I guess I was one of very few that voted "no"."

"The Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted. The Gentleman should be recorded as voting as 'aye' on Senate Bill 1035. Pursuant to Rule 39 (a)-2 , we will move to the Subject Matter Call of State Regulation and consider the following Bills: Senate Bill 400, Senate Bill 454, Senate Bill 482, Senate Bill 673, Senate Bill 1045 and Senate Bill 1132. Representative Vinson."

"Would you read those Bills again, please?"

"Senate Bill 400, Senate Bill 454, Senate Bill 482, Senate Bill 673, Senate Eill 1045 and Senate Bill 1132. Senate Bill 400. Read the Fill, Mr. Clerk. Out of the record. Senate Bill 454. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 454, a Bill for an Act to amend the Lead Poisoning Prevention Act. Third Beading of the Bill."

"Representative White. Bepresentative White."

"Mr. Speak... Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Senate Bill 454 is a simple Fill. We worked out the...this Bill with the Illinois Fublic Health Department. And within the thirty day period, if the health and safety of an individual is not involved, then the Fublic Health Department will extend the period up to one year for the period of time that the lead must be removed from the facility."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 454. And on that guestion, Representative Hawkinson."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Representative, when...could you give me a situation when the health and safety of children or individuals might not be involved so that an extension should be granted?" 190  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"Where they may... should offer a room or relocate the family."

"Thank you."

"Further discussion? The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', those opposed will vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. This question, 111 voting 'aye', and none voting 'no', and this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Appearing on the Order of State Regulation is House Bill (sic Senate Bill) 482, Representative Satterthwaite. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 482, a Bill for an Act to amend the Boiler and Pressure Vessel and Safety Act."

"Excuse me. Representative... For what reason does Representative Vinson rise?"

"You missed a Bill on your Order. You went passed 454."

"Okay, we'll go back to it. Well, we just did that. 400 was taken out of the record. 454 was Representative White's Bill. We're now on Senate Bill 482, Representative Satterthwaite."

"Third Reading of the Bill."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, Senate Bill 482, which was Sponsored by Senator Schaffer in the Senate, amends the Boiler and Pressure Vessel Safety Act to allow the operation of steam boilers of historic railroad locomotives, if they are inspected and proved to be safe for operation. There are only a very few of the steam boiler locomotives that would come under this classification, several of them at the Union Museum in northern Illinois, and one at least at the Monticello Railroad Museum in central Illinois. I know of no 191  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 73rd Legislative Day opposition to the Bill currently, and I think that it provides us with one mechanism of allowing the operation of some of these older boilers that are in museums only. I ask for a favorable vote."

"The Lady has moved the passage of Senate Bill 482. Is there discussion? Being no discussion, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor will vote 'aye', those opposed will vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 108 voting 'yes', 2 voting 'no'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Appearing on the Order of State Regulations is Senate Bill 673. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 673, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Horse Racing Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Mautino."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 673 is the authorization of intertrack betting at corresponding tracks in the State of Illinois. The legislation was amended at the request of Representative DeJaegher and Topinka. I would be most happy to respond to questions. This is not messenger services. This is not off-track betting. This allows individuals at the tracks, who where simultaneous races that run 75 miles away from that track, to make a corresponding bet on that particular race. You can do it as well before or after the official time at the facility in which you are. And there are...I don't believe there is any opposition to the Bill, now, as amended."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 673. Is there discussion? Representative Hoffman." 192  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF BEPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983

"Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Indicates he'll yield."

"Is... Is this practiced in other jurisdictions?"

"Yes. We had similar legislation that authorized intertrack betting for the Kentucky Derby, etc etera, passed by this House about two years ago, while you could still make those bets at Illinois tracks. It is also in other states at this time, yes."

"Yes, like, for example, New York, Florida, California, those kind... those states..."

"Most of those, yes, Sir. The major racing states in the country."

"Fine. Thank you very much."

"Further discussion? Representative Topinka."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in support of this Bill. And I think we should know that it's supported by all the major racing associations and horse breeders associations in the state. Representative Mautino's fine Amendment just brought it up to snuff, and it is a good Bill."

"Representative Slape."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, would the Gentleman yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Yes, according to the analysis I have for House Amendment #1, it says that the intertrack wagering shall be accepted only from the nearest track. What exactly, in other words, if there is various tracks in the Chicago area and then if Rockford has it, you couldn't make a bet at Fairmont. Is that right?"

"Yes. Well, Rockford would not be part of it, but for example, if you were at Sportsman's you could make a bet at Fairmont. Fairmont-Sportsman. The same would hold true with Quad City Downs, and the same would hold for Arlington 193  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Park and Maywood as well. It's only Illinois tracks. Inter Illinois tracks."

"Okay. It doesn't preclude somebody from the farthest track from making a bet? The analysis I have is wrong then, right? The analysis I have says you can only make it from the nearest track that has a license."

"That's exactly right. You could at Fairmont make a bet at Sportsman, if that's what you're saying, if that's what you're asking."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman to close."

"Yes, I think that the financial consideration is one which we should all understand as well. It is the estimate that has been presented to me that the intertrack proposal brings in approximately ten million dollars to the Agricultural Premium Fund. And the Amendments that have been adopted. I believe, address all of the questions that were raised as it pertained to the Chicago area and the two downstate tracks, that being Quad City and Fairmont. Representative Topinka's Amendment addressed the closeness of Maywood, Belmont and Sportsman's. And I don't believe that there is any adverse provisions at all in this legislation now as amended."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor will vote 'aye', those opposed will vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 109 voting 'aye', 6 voting 'no'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Now we're going to return on the same Order of Business to Senate Bill 400, Representative Cullerton."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would ask leave to put this Bill on Interim Study." 194  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"The June 27, 1983 Gentleman asks leave to place Senate Bill 400 on Interim Study in the Committee from which it came. Is there discussion? Does the Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted. The Bill is now in Interim Study. Representative Vinson, we're going to add Senate Bill 1237 to that Order on State Regulation. Representative Dunn. Appearing on the Order of State Regulation is Senate Bill 1045, Representative Steczo. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1045, a Bill for an Act in relation to urea-formaldehyde foam. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Steczo."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Senate Bill 1045 is legislation that requires a brief safety warning to be placed on formaldehyde foam insulation and also, on the sales contract providing for sale of urea-formaldehyde foam insulation. The wording, which differs a great deal from when this legislation was introduced in the Senate, stipulates that the installation of this product may be hazardous to your health. The principal reason that this Bill has been introduced is that there have been situations, especially ones that have occurred in mine and Senator Kelly's district, where people have been infected with this...reprocussions after having installed the foam insulation. And we feel that this warning would provide a great deal of relief to people who could...whose health could be placed in danger, should this urea-formaldehyde insulation be installed in their homes. I would answer any questions and would appreciate an 'aye' vote on Senate Bill 1045."

"The Gentleman has moved the passage of Senate Bill 1045. And on that question, the Chair recognizes Representative Vinson."

"Will the Gentleman yield for a question?" 195  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

Vinson:

"Indicates he will." June 27, 1983 "Representative, are you familiar with the current status of litigation regarding the Consumer Product Safety Commission banning of this particular product?" "Representative Vinson, yes, I am. It seems that the Commission banned the use of the insulation. The Court of Appeals overturned that particular ban, but the Commission, who feels that the Court grievously erred in not considering some reliable scientific data, has asked for a rehearing. It's my understanding that the ban stays in effect until the rehearing is granted."

"Are you familiar with why the Court overturned the ban?"

"Again, Representative Vinson, it's my understanding that the Court indicated that, in terms where there is proper installation, that there may not be a health risk. However, again, the Commission indicates and feels and has asked for a rehearing based on the fact that the Court did not take into consideration all the relevant scientific data that would...that could have...should have proved otherwise."

"Mr. Speaker, to the Bill."

"Proceed."

"I rise in opposition to the Bill. What the Court discovered, what that was that there was no substantial evidence that indicated that this particular product was a health hazard. Now, it is a very rare thing for a U.S. Court in reviewing an administrative agency's decision on a matter within its expertise, within its field of expertise, to arrive at a determination that the agency had no substantial evidence on which to base its determination. What this Bill would place us in the posture of doing would be legislating in opposition to a product which a Federal Court, after substantial review of a federal agency's 196  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 decision, has discovered that there is no evidence to prove that the product is hazardous. And what it might end up in doing would be attaching substantial civil liability to realtors who sold property in the State of Illinois when, in fact, the product involved was not proven to be any kind of health hazard. I don't believe we should attach that kind of liability to realtors in this case, at least, not before some agency has determined, on the basis of some reasonable and substantial evidence, that there is, in fact, a problem with the product. And for that reason, I rise in opposition to 1045 and urge a 'no' vote on the Bill."

"Representative Brusser. Representative Friedrich."

"Mr. Speaker, a question of the Sponsor."

"Indicates he'll yield."

"As I read the analysis here, it indicates the penalty is on the installer. The reason I ask that question is that in some of these, the in insulation installers are pretty transient and little...be a little hard to find and maybe indigent by the time you catch them. Do you really think this will solve the problem if the only penalty is on the installer?"

"Representative Friedrich, Representative Kelly's thought was the fact that since faulty installation of this particular urea-formaldehyde foam can be a health hazard, that there should be a stipulation on the contracts that this, in fact, could be hazardous to one's health. I would presume that in cases like that, hopefully the installer could be found should any causes for damages arise."

"Well, I doubt that, due to the nature of the people who can get into this business with no capital, no equipment and so on. And I really think even if there were 197  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 a hazard, I don't believe you're solving it."

"Representative Piel."

"Will the Gentleman yield to one quick question?"

"Indicates he will."

"Representative Steczo, could you explain to me...I've received numerous of letters and one thing and another, could you explain to me why the Illinois Association of Realtors is against this Bill?"

"Representative Piel, I know that they have indicated their opposition to it. I think, perhaps, maybe due to the reasons that were brought forth by Representative Vinson. However, it's my understanding that...I'm not sure if they can really be held liable for installation that has taken place prior to the enactment of the Bill. What we're trying to deal with is future installations of this particular formaldehyde foam in insulation to try to protect people from having these types of health difficulties. All we are doing in Senate Bill 1045 is placing a warning on the contract and on the various component parts by saying that the installation of this particular urea-formaldehyde foam insulation could be a health hazard. And I think that notwithstanding what the...what the Courts...the 5th Circuit of Appeals Court in New Orleans said, the Illinois Department of Public Health supports this Bill, because they have had complaints as to the use. So, Representative Vinson's point probably was the reason why the realtors maybe in opposition. However, I don't think that the points that he expressed really would affect the realtors in this case."

"To the Bill, Mr. Speaker. I would stand in opposition to the Bill. I think if we did not have a case already set on this, where the Appellate Court has vacated this Consumer Product Safety Commission, I could understand, you know, 198  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 the Gentleman introducing the Bill. But seeing as the Appellate Court has already made a ruling, I think we're sitting here sort of trying to usurp their power a little bit. And I would ask for a 'no' vote; and, if this should possibly receive 60 votes, I would ask for a verification."

"Representative leverenz."

"...Gentleman yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Do you know at all if the entire issue of foam insulation...is it possible that the heat and stink about foam insulation was brought forth by the 'Bockwool' Industry?"

"I'm not familiar with that, Representative leverenz."

"And so that they would slow up the installation of foam rather than the 'Rockwool' lobby in Washington. I understand that to be true. And I think that's why the whole thing happened to begin with, and then Courts found that there wasn't any real substance to what was really going on there. I just thought I'd add that. Thank you."

"Okay, thank you."

"Representative Marzuki."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I'm not quite sure where all of the legal entanglements are at this tise. I know that many people whom I know personally may not have suffered any health problems with this, but they certainly suffered economic problems because the foam was not properly installed in the house. And not only the legal fees, but the impossibility of selling that house or the rebuilding necessary to correct the problems with it, make it something that, to me, is unproven and an undesirable product on the market and ought to at least carry some warnings to people. I 199  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 think that this is all that Representative Steczo is asking for."

"Representative Steczo to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Let me reiterate that...a couple points. First, that this Bill does not seek to ban this insulation from being installed. Secondly, while it is true that the Circuit Court of the...the Appellate Court, Federal Appellate Court did overturn the Consumer Product Safety Commission's ban, there has been a rehearing requested, and that ban is currently in effect on this particular kind of insulation. The Illinois Department of Public Health has registered in support of this Bill because of the potential health hazard that's...that's involved. I think that if we are simply going to provide a warning to those people, and that's all that Senate Bill 1045 does, then we are doing well to make them aware that the installation of this insulation might very well, in fact, be a health hazard. I would urge the adoption and the passage of Senate Fill 1045."

"The question is, Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor will vote 'aye', those opposed will vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all woted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Yourell 'aye. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 26 voting 'aye", 80 voting 'no", 3 voting 'present'. Representative Steczo."

"Just to mention, Mr. Speaker, it's a good thing Senator D'Arco wasn't the Senate Sponsor."

"This Bill, having failed to receive the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared lost. Appearing on the Order of State Regulation is Senate Bill 1132. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1132, a Bill for an Act to amend the 200  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Medical Practice Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Panayotovich."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1132 is a Bill just to close a loophole in the Medical Practice Act, where self-insured institutions must now make claim or settlement reports to the Medical Disciplinary Board. It's supported by the Department of Begistration and Regulation, Illinois State Medical Society, and I know of no opposition. And I ask for your 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman has moved the passage of Senate Bill 1132. Is there discussion? Being no discussion is...the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye, those opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 112 voting 'aye, none voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Appearing on the Order of State Regulation is Senate Bill 1237. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1237, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to welfare of wage earners. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Dunn." Dunn, John: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1237 changes the form of the wage assignment notice which must be sent out and when someone signs a wage assignment and fails to pay a debt back, and the creditor wants to serve a wage assignment notice and includes a penalty provision upon the creditor if he improperly serves the demand or improperly releases the demand. The language of the Bill that came over from the Senate has been taken out. I know cf no opposition and 201  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 request a favorable Roll Call."

"Gentleman has moved the passage of Senate Bill 1237. On that question, the Chair Representat.... Representative Vinson."

"Yes, will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Indicates he will yield."

"Representative, this Bill has had a striking legislative history in the House. As I recall, you discharged this Bill from Committee."

"That's correct."

"As I recall, an Amendment was placed on it in Committee."

"That's correct."

"As I recall, that Amendment was signed off on by virtually every group that had previously cared about the Bill. Is that correct?"

"That's my understanding."

"Okay. Could you tell us, are you aware of anybody who is against the Bill at this point?"

"No, I am... No, I am not at this time."

"Has the Bill been amended since it came out of Committee?"

"No, it has not."

"Alright. So..."

"There was..."

"Basically, we're on Third Reading. We are dealing only with the Amendment that was adopted in the House Committee."

"To refresh your memory, there was an error. The Committee Amendment did not get stapled to the Bill; and, when it was read on Second Reading, no Committee Amendment was referred to. The Bill went to Third. We had to pull it back, correct that error, which was a technical error, and then 202  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 again move it to Third. There have been no Floor Amendments added to this Bill. The only Amendment on the Bill is the Amendment put on in Judiciary Committee."

"Thank you."

"Representative Hallock, did you wish to... Question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor will... Did you want to close, Representative Dunn? The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor will vote 'aye', those opposed will vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. Representative Domico 'aye'. On this question there are 113 voting 'aye' and none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Pursuant to Rule 39 (a)-2, we will now move to the Subject Matter of Election Reform and consider Bills under that Subject Matter. The first Bill... And on that Order appears House... Senate Bill 1307, the only Bill to appear on that. Representative Olson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1307 is a comprehensive redraft of the Election Code in specific areas. And this Bill has a number of Amendments to be offered. I would defer to Representative Hallock, who is offering Amendment #1."

"Representative... Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1307, a Bill for an Act to amend the Election Code. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Representative Olson, do you want to move this Bill back to Second for purposes..."

"If we may have leave... It is on Second."

"It's on Second. Okay, thank you. Representative Hallock." 203  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 73rd Legislative Day

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Amendment #1, which I would offer now, merely allows the State Board of Election to use the computer services of Central Management Services. Currently about seventy other state agencies use that computer, and I would ask that this Amendment be adopted."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1307. Is there discussion? All those in favor will say 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, Yourell."

"Representative Olson."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Yourell, Amendment #2 deals with the factor of when a local canvassing board receives a petition relative to an election that would have the jurisdiction, and shall notify the chairman of such board who shall reconvene such board in the office of the election authority. I would move for the adoption of this Amendment to this comprehensive redraft."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1307. Is there discussion? There being no discussion, the question is, 'Shall this Amendment be adopted?' All those in favor will say 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, Olson - Ecuman."

"Representative Olson."

"Thank you again, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #3 is drafted to fill a peculiar gap in the Election Code which in the past has prohibited residents, such as hotels for people who are semi-invalid and retired to have assistance in casting 204  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENEBAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 ballots. What we're seeking to do here is to permit election authorities to extend the provisions of the nursing home absentee voting to such dwellings, and that would provide for putting registered deputy registrars and election judges into those facilities, and it would cover anything that has three or more residents. I wouldill move for the adoption of this important Amendment."

"The Gentlemen had moved the adoption of Amendment #3 to Senate Bill 1307. On that question, Representative Cullerton."

"It's my understanding that the Eill has been read a second time."

"This Bill has been read a second time."

"Fine, thank you."

"Further discussion? All those in favor will signify by saying 'aye, those opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. Amendment #3 is adopted. Representative Olson. This Bill having been read a second time previously. Representative... Third Reading. This Pill having been read a second time, Representative Olson noves for immediate consideration of Senate Bill 1307 on Third Reading. Is there a leave? Proceed, Mr. Olson."

"Thank you very much, Mr..."

"Senate Bill 1307, a Bill for an Act to amend the Election Code. Third Beading of the Bill."

"Thank you again very much, Mr. Speaker. Senate Bill 1307 is a comprehensive redraft done by the State Board of Elections to deal with the number of the deficiencies in the present Code. It has been given significant attention with the addition of these three Amendments, we now put the Election Code in the position to cffer a much better service to the voters of the State of Illinois. And I would recommend a unanimous vote for Senate Bill 1307." 205  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"The Gentleman has moved the passage of Senate Bill 1307. Is there discussion? The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor will vote 'aye", those opposed will vote 'no". The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 115 voting 'aye", none voting 'no', none voting "present". This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Pursuant to Rule 39 (a)-2, we will now move to the Subject Matter of State Revenue and Financial Policies and consider Bills under that Subject Matter. The Bills under that Order of Business are as follows: Senate Bill 302, Senate Bill 775, Senate Bill 799, Senate Bill 824, Senate Bill 945, Senate Bill 966, Senate Bill 1107, Senate Bill 1115, Senate Bill 1268, Senate Bill 1312, Senate Bill 1319, and Senate Bill 1324. 1324. Appearing on the Order of State Revenue and Financial Policies appears Senate Bill 302. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 302, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to state finance. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Leverenz. Representative Nash."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 302 is a very simple Bill. All it does is amends various Acts to prohibit the expenditure of federal funds without those funds being appropriated by this General Assembly. I ask for an 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman moves for the passage of Senate Bill 302. Is there discussion? There being no discussion is...the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor will vote 'aye", those opposed 'no". The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 206  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 104 voting 'aye", 5 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby passed. Appearing on the Order of State Revenue Financial Policies is Senate Bill 775. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 775, a Bill for an Act in relation to the transfer of monies from the General Revenue Fund to certain debt service funds in the State Treasury. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Matijevich."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Senate Bill 775 is an attempt to clarify statutory references regarding the transfer of monies from the General Revenue Fund to the various debt service funds. The ambiguity in the current statutory language has been pointed out by the Auditor General in the Comptroller's audit reports as well as in an unofficial opinion from the Attorney General's Office back in August of 1980. The passage of Senate Bill 775 would ensure that unnecessary surplus revenues do not accumulate in the various debt service funds, rather it would ensure that adequate monies are transferred to meet payment obligations while previous surpluses would remain in the state... state's General Revenue Fund. Under present law, the Comptroller and Treasurer, acting in concert, determine the proper amount of funds to transfer out of the General Revenue Fund into each of the respective debt service funds, so that not more than what is actually needed be put into those funds for payment of the debt service. We've discussed this on the Amendment. I believe it is a good Bill. Both the Comptroller and the Treasurer have worked together to write the Bill. It passed out of the Senate without a dissenting vote, and I urge the Membership to support it."

"The Gentleman has moved the passage of Senate 207  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 73rd Legislative Day Bill 775. And on that question, the Chair recognizes Representative Vinson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think you...everybody in this chamber ought to take a very hard look at this particular Bill. What we're dealing with here is something that, in part, the General Assembly gave the Governor authority to do last year. If we don't have some way of dealing with the plethora of funds in the State Treasury so that we can manage our cash flow system in a rational fashion, there is no way that we can deal with a situation where we have a low fund balance. If you insist on constantly tying the Governor's hands on dealing with the various funds in the State Treasury, then you automatically and necessarily have to have a much higher balance in the General Fund and in every other fund than if you don't have that kind of restrictive legislation. You have to do that, because you have to be able to deal, move the money around in those various funds in such a fashion so that the state can meet its obligations. Now we have a large number of funds in the State Treasury. It would be nice someday to deal with the problem straight up and consolidate many of those funds into one truly general fund, but we have not done that, and there has always been substantial opposition to doing that. Until we do that, there are really just two choices that people in this General Assembly have. Number one, you can determine in great statutory and legislative detail how the Governor should deal with the various funds, when and how much money should be moved from fund to fund. If you do that, you necessarily have to have more money available in the various funds, and that, in effect, means you need a higher tax base to deal with things. Now I don't think that anybody out there in the general public wants to see a 208  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 situation where we are raising taxes, because we insist on an elaborate accounting system, and because we insist on a restrictive cash management system of this nature. For that reason, and for the reason specifically that we don't need to raise taxes to make the accounting system more elaborate in this state, I would urge a 'no' vote on this Bill, and I request a verification if it gets the requisite number of votes."

"Representative Ewing."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the last speaker made some very good points, and I would just reiterate to those on the other side of the aisle, we play games out here sometimes when we have a Republican Governor or we have a Democrat Governor depending on which side of the aisle we are on. Someday, maybe someday, you'll have another Democratic Governor, and you'll want him to have some of the authority to manage the funds of this state. It's important that we have those powers in our Chief Executive. Vote 'no' on this Bill."

"Representative Bowman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill will not impair fund management, but it will impair fund manipulation. That is what this Bill is all about. I hope everyone, indeed, listened very carefully to the Gentleman from DeWitt, because the Gentleman from DeWitt acknowledged that that's precisely what's been happening over the last couple of years with money being moved from one fund to another fund at the whim of the Governor. You know, I think all of us in this chamber are acutely aware of the Governor's 'Cinderella' budget. The 'Cinderella' budget is the 1983 budget that turned into a pumpkin on election night, and the reason that he was able to make the pumpkin look like a fancy 209  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 carriage, was because he vas able to manipulate the balances in the various funds. This Pill will prevent fund manipulation, and it will greatly enhance fund management, sound financial management. That's what WE should be about. That's what the Legislature should support, and that's why I'm urging the passage of this Bill."

"Representative Friedrich."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, if this law...if this Bill were law now, I can tell you you would have some real problems. You would have some departments shut down completely. Now if you want to take away completely the Governor's right to do this or the power to do this, I think you're making a terrible mistake, or else you'll get into the posture that Representative Vinson said, and you'll have to pile up great suas of money in all of these funds to be sure that he doesn't have to move them from time to time. I hope you won't vote for this Fill."

"Representative Ballock."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. In the best of years, when we have no funding problems, this might be a legitimate issue. But right now, when the budget is such a...in such a problem with the budget, we surely can't pass this. The Governor has to have the flexibility he needs to keep this state afloat, and that's especially true today. I urge a 'no' vote."

"Further discussion? Representative Matijevich to close."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the arguments that some of you make are the arguments of why you should vote for this Bill, because we are in dire fiscal straits, because what the Eureau of the Budget Director does, they put more General Revenue Fund into those debt service funds than is necessary. So that 210  73rd Legislative Day STATE OP ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 makes an artificially low General Bevenue Fund balance. Because we are short of money, we should have those monies in the General Revenue Fund. That's the entire purpose of this Bill. As you know, the Governor...everybody has accusedg the Governor of sort of manipulating and using gimmicks in the last election, This is one of those types of gimmicks that one can use when one is looking for a tax increase, for example, saying that we are at such a General Fund level that we need more general revenue funds, when the truth of the matter is there may be SOME millions of dollars lingering in some of the funds that should not be there. And that is the purpose for the Bill. As I said, it was recommended by the Auditor General in his report, by a Republican Attorney General in his opinion, and I believe that we, too, should recommend it. And I urge your vote."

"The question is, Shall this Bill pass? All those in favor will vote 'aye", those opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 41 voting 'aye', 46 voting 'no', 11 voting 'present'. Representative Matijevich."

"Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye, Bye-bye."

"Representative Koehler aye. Representative Leverenz 'aye'. Few more, John. Representative Hicks 'aye'. Mr. Clerk, what's the count? Representative Brookins "aye". Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 45 voting 'aye, 46 voting 'no", 9 voting present'. This Bill, having failed to receive the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared lost. Appearing on the Order of State Revenue Financial Policies is Senate Bill 799. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 799, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to the payment and disposition of monies. 211  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Hannig."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. This Bill was introduced at the request of the State Treasurer. In April, the Supreme Court handed down a decision which said that when a taxpayer in Illinois pays money under protest and ultimately wins that protest, that the State of Illinois must not only refund their money, but must provide them with interest. What this Bill simply says, is that the interest rate shall be six percent. The Bill passed unanimously in the Senate, and it's been on the agreed Bill list here in the House. And I would ask for your 'yes' vote."

"The Gentleman moves the passage of Senate Bill 799. And on that question, the Chair recognizes Representative Brummer."

"Yes, will the Sponsor yield? Could you indicate what type of..."

"He indicates he will."

"Could you indicate what type of refund is coming back to the taxpayer?"

"This will...This would be any monies that were paid to the State of Illinois under protest, and subsequently, the payer won the case."

"So it would be for any...any item that you would pay under protest and win."

"For the State of Illinois, not for counties."

"Okay. Was that...Do we have any legislation that requires that currently, or was that simply something that the Court adopted on its own?"

"I'm not certain that the...what the status of that would be, but the Court, the Supreme Court of Illinois did hand down this decision in April." 212  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"And did the...did decision indicate what rate of interest should be paid?" June 27, 1983

"It did not, and that's why the Treasurer has asked that we specify legislatively, rather than have the Courts take up the matter again."

"Thank you."

"Further discussion? Does the Gentleman wish to close? Mr. Hannig, do you wish to close? The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass? All those in favor will vote 'aye', those opposed will vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? On this question, there are a 114 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Appearing on the Order of State Revenue Financial Policies is Senate Bill 9...824, I'm sorry. Senate Bill 824. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 824, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Revenue Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Leave to take this back to Second for purpose of an Amendment."

"The Gentleman asks leave to take...return the Bill to Second Reading for purposes of an Amendment. Does he have leave? Bill is on Second Reading."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"Amendment #1, Keane, amends Senate Bill 824."

"Representative Keane, Amendment #1."

"Amendment #1, all it does is strike the Section that says that this Act takes effect on its becoming law. Rather than have a date uncertain, we've struck that so that we would have a certain date. I'd ask for the adoption of the Amendment." 213  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENEBAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983

"The Gentleman moves the adoption of Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 824. Representative Johnson."

"When will the, if the Bill had passed, take effect?"

"The Gentleman indicates he'll yield."

"Next July 1st?"

"Yes. With this Amendment, it'll take place...no January 1st."

"Right, that's what I meant. Well, what is the purpose for removing or changing the effective date? Will that alter the number of votes it takes to pass this?"

"No. All it does is it gives a time certain by saying that it takes effect when the Governor signs it. We don't know when that will be. It will create some problems. If they know that it's going to be January 1st, we have no problems."

"Thank you."

"Further discussion? The question is, Shall Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 824 be adopted?" All those in favor say 'aye', those opposed 'no'. The 'ayes have it. The Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. The Gentleman asks leave to consider Senate Bill 824 immediately on Third Reading. Does the Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 824, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Bill is necessary because of the Supreme Court decision 'Proviso' versus 'Hynes', which ruled that an exemption could be granted to owner-occupied residential properties only as principal residents. This Bill moves the distinction between 214  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 counties which classify and those which do not. It passed out the Committee, Revenue Committee 12 to nothing. It was on the Consent Calendar. I had it taken off for this Amendment. I would ask a favorable Roll Call"

"The Gentleman moves for the passage of Senate Bill 824. All those in favor will vote 'aye, those opposed will vote 'no". The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 113 voting 'no', none voting... 113 voting 'aye', ncne voting 'no". This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority. is hereby declared passed. Appearing on the Order of State Revenue and Financial Policies is Senate Bill 945. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 945, a Bill for an Act to add Sections to the Illinois Banking Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Harris. Representative Harris, is this your Bill? Representative Hawkinson, you're going to handle the Bill for Mr. Harris?"

"Could we have leave to handle this?"

"The Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted. Proceed, Sir."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, this Bill amends the Banking Act. It provides that unless it conflicts with the Banking Act, the Business Corporation Act shall apply to banks. The proponents are the Commissioner of Banks and Trusts, the Illinois Bankers Association. I know of no opponents, and I would urge an 'aye" vote."

"The Gentleman moves for the passage of Senate Bill 945. And on that question, the Chair recognizes Representative Piel."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Basically, this legislation was introduced for the 215  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 Commissioner of Banks and Trusts Companies, and it's endorsed by the...by all the kanking organizations in Illinois. And I'd ask for a favorable vote."

"The Gentleman wish to close? The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor will vote 'aye', those opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 113 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Appearing on the Order of State Revenue and Financial Policies is Senate Bill 966. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 966, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Revenue Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Rea."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. This is... this Bill is sponsored by myself and Representative Neff, and it amends the Revenue Act to provide if the primary use of property is bene... or charitable regardless of incidental uses, the property shall be considered to be used actually and exclusively for charitable purposes. And it came out of Committee 12 to 0 and would ask for a favorable Roll Call."

"The Gentleman moves passage of Senate Bill 966, and on that question, the Chair recognizes Representative Mautino."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Representative Rea, let us assume that the... the Brotherhood Charitable Organization, maybe religious or otherwise, owns a parking lot or a parking facility inside the city. And there is a charge for the use by the general 216  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 public of that parking garage. Does that property become exempt under your legislation?"

"No, it does not."

"Under what provision?"

"In the Bill, it says the use has to be the substantial most there, actually."

"What you're saying is that then those properties that would be owned by charitable organizations such as parking areas and maybe leased properties would not be taken off the roles. Is that right?"

"That's correct."

"They would not be taken off the roles? Then why do we need the Pill?"

"If the use is substantially charitable, they can rent out to other organizations there, Representative Mautino. Actually what this... it does, the Fill broadens the existing property tax exemption in two ways, by expanding the definition of exempt property of fraternal or not-profit organizations beyond simply old peoples' homes, and by, secondly, by providing that their tax exempt properties primary use be for charitable, even though it's also put to other incidental uses. And your talking about other incidental uses there."

"Representative Hawkinson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Representative, if a religious organization had a retreat, and they conducted services in camps on the retreat, but they owned an adjoining parcel which they rented out as farmland, under present law that farmland is still taxable, even though the owner is a religious organization. Would your Bill change that at all?"

"No, absolutely not." 217  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"Thank you."

"Representative John Dunn."

"Do those property... those organizations which meet the definitions of this Act have exemption from property taxes?"

"Would you repeat your question, please?"

"If you qualify... meet the defer... meet the definition of this Act, which you have purposed, what happens? Are you exempt from property taxes?"

"That's correct."

"Why have you added the word "fraternal"?"

"Well, as you probably know, the Appellate Court for the 1st District affirmed a ruling by the Circuit Court of Cook County that there was some Masonic Temple Organizations that should have their real estate exempt from property taxes on the basis that they were charitable organizations, and that opinion vas based upon the opinion of several lodges and the Department of Revenue bas not recognized that."

"Let me ask this. I don't have any of the other Sections of the Revenue Act before me. Are you talking about the... with regard to fraternal organizations, the social meeting place for their lodges or are you talking about, for example, the Home for the Aged, which the Masonic organizations do support?"

"No, we are actually talking about the organization itself."

"Are... are you saying, if this Bill becomes law then that every Eagles Lodge, Moose Lodge, Masonic Temple, Knights of Columbus, VFW Hall will be tax exempt?"

"Only if they fall within the definition."

"Definition of what?"

"Of fraternal."

"Well, everyone of those is a fraternal organization. 218  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 I think we better..."

"And only if the substantial use of that is for charitable purposes."

"Is the definition of substantial use defined somewhere in a court proceeding? I don't know whether I'm opposed, for or against the Bill. I belong to some fraternal organizations; but, if we're going to exempt the social meeting rooms and club houses of fraternal organizations all around this state from taxation, I think it's a bad Bill. If we're going to exempt the Masonic homes that the Masonic lodges provide for, in effect, nursing homes for their members, I think that may be a good purposes, and I don't, yet, understand what this Bill does."

"Representative Flinn."

"Well, I'm not through, Mr. Speaker. I need an answer to my question..."

"Proceed, Sir."

"... then I'll decide whether I'm for or against this Bill."

"Do you have another question?"

"I... I have one that's unanswered. I..."

"Representative Bea, do you want to respond to the last question?"

"I'm sorry, I didn't hear that question. I didn't know..."

"You indicated that where there's a Masonic lodge, or Knights of Columbus, or Eagles or Moose, that where a substantial portion of their premises are used for the purposes defined in the Act, that they are tax exempt. And I asked whether... what substantial means. Is it defined somewhere in a court case, or how do we...? What... what we're... What I'm getting to is, does the... do the meeting rooms and the social portion of the premises qualify for a 219  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENEBAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day tax exemption under this legislation, or not?" June 27, 1983

"Well, I think, you know, substantial, they're talking about more than 50%, and I think the courts have even defined it as such."

"Well, thank you very much. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen, briefly to the Fill, I think there's been enough concern about this that we ought to make sure about what we're doing. Particularly all over downstate, we have an awful lot of fraternal organizations which have meeting rooms and club houses, and I don't think anyone, including the members of those organizations, expect to be tax exempt so long as they are not doing religious or charitable activities exclusively on those premises. Our exemptions were meant to be for religious institutions, churches and religiously-operated charitable organizations and not for social organizations which happen to have a charitable aspect to them. So, I think we should be very cautious about supporting this legislation in its present form."

"Representative Flinn."

"As you suspected, I move the previous guestion."

"The Gentleman moves the previous question. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed Do". The 'ayes have it. The previous question has been moved. Representative Rea, do you wish to close?"

"Representative Neff, please."

"Who?"

"Representative Neff."

"Representative Neff to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In closing, I'm sure this has been brought out here, but the County of Cook took this to court in regards to the Masonic Temples, and the courts ruled in the favor of the Masonic Temples. And I don't think there's any question that downstate that if they all 220  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 went to court, it be... involve a lot of court cases. But if they all went to court, I think they would be exempt also, because all we're asking here, for any institution, that a majority, most of all of their work is pertaining to charitable organizations that they be exempt from taxation. This will cost the state nothing and will affect very little, as we're scattered all over the downstate areas, of money lost by local government. And I would appreciate. affirmative vote on this."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor will vote 'aye', those opposed will vote 'no'. The voting is open. Representative Van Duyne, one minute to explain his vote. Forgot what you're going to say. Okay. Representative Leverenz to explain his vote."

"Well, I did want to ask a couple of questions, but I think this expands it to the point where they'll take in the 'El Rukin' Hotel which was just purchased on the south side. I don't know how they'll treat the property of the good Reverend Moon, and I think the incidental part might cover all the bingo palaces that we might have in the state. It does substantially change the definition or how this has been defined in the past. In the past, it was the exclusive. Now it's changed to substantial or primary. I don't know who that benefits, but it doesn't smell good."

"Representative Oblinger, one minute to explain her vote."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I had a question, too, and it was a very important one. I wish the Sponsor would just... Mr. Rea, would you nod your head? I was told when I put the Amendment on Senate Bill 835 about community action agencies who are involved in owning property and how it is requested that they must be exempt from property tax, I was told that this Bill was coming 221  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 along and because it is a charitable organization, under the Antipoverty Act, that this Bill might cover it. And I would like to know whether it covers community action agencies? You think it does?"

"Representative Hastert, one minute to explain his vote."

"I, too, had a question, but I just raise this question that under the State's Mandates Act, I understand that the state has to reimburse those local governments. And I'm not sure. I don't think this was exempted, and I think it's a concern."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 40 voting 'aye', 40 voting 'no', 33 voting 'present'. Representative Rea."

"I'd like to see enough votes there to place it on Postponed Consideration, so that we could later place it in Interim Study and could deal with some of the questions that have been brought up here, later on."

"Representative Khem votes 'aye'. Representative Nash 'aye'. Representative Johnson 'aye'. Representative Huff 'aye'. Representative Doyle 'aye'. Representative Krska 'aye'. Terzich 'aye'. What's the count, Mr. Clerk? 46 'aye'... 47 'aye', 39 'no', 33 'present'. This Bill will be on Postponed Consideration. Representative Bea."

"Mr. Speaker, I would ask leave now to place this Bill on Postponed... I mean on Interim Study."

"The Gentleman asks leave to place the Bill on Interim Study. Does he have leave? Bill is on Interim Study. Appearing on the Order of Senate Bills, State Revenue and Financial Policies appears Senate Bill 1107. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk." 222  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCBIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Senate Bill 1107, a Bill for an Act to exempt from taxation certain gross receipts from the sale of gas, or electricity or transmission of messages. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Terzich."

"Senate Bill 1107 amends the state utility tax to exempt certain organizations from federal taxation from these taxes. It also includes public school districts with those that are charitable educational religi... religious organizations. What this does is it exempts the utility tax from these organizations. I'm sure that everyone can realize that... If you'd quit whistling, I'd appreciate it. Thank you. It can be realized that the utility gross receipt tax is probably the fastest growing source of revenue in the State of Illinois, outstripping the growth of income and sales taxes. It is ΠΟΥ Illinois' third largest tax source with the corporate income tax having dropped to fourth place. For example, in 1972, the utility revenues were one point six million, and as of 1982, they're five hundred and eighty six million dollars. Many of the... the private schools and public schools are having a substantial increase in their utility bills. This will afford them some small relief, and I would appreciate your support for Senate Bill 1107."

"The Gentleman moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1107. On that question, the Chair recognizes Representative Vinson."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Assembly, I rise in opposition to Senate Bill 1107 for what I believe should be compelling reasons. This state is in an enormous fiscal crisis. Right now, three days from the end of the Session, ४e don't know how to make ends meet. We don't know whether we're going to have to stop general assistance 223  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENEBAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day checks. June 27, 1983 We don't know whether we're going to have to lay off mental health workers. We don't know whether we're going to have to suspend school aid. Any of the variety of things that are included in the docmsday budget, we don't know at this stage whether we're going to have to do. We're right at the... the wolf is really at the door, at this point in the Session. And now the Gentleman would recommend to this Assembly that we cut taxes, that we make the budget more unbalanced, that we put ourselves more in a position where we can't pay our bills. Right now there's some five hundred and twenty million dollars worth of bills sitting there on the table that we don't know how to pay for. And right now, the budget's out of balance in addition to those five hundred and twenty million dollars, three hundred million dollars that we borrowed. There's no way, at this point, that we can make the budget balance if we just protect the existing sources of revenue. And yet the Gentleman comes to us with a proposal, with a proposal that would have us cut taxes further. There's no way that makes fiscal sense. There's no way that you can defend that to the kids in the mental institutions, to the kids in the schools. There's no way that you can defend that to anybody dependent on State Government. He looks at the utility tax here, and he says we ought to cut it. Now, let me ask you a question. If you really want to cut the utility tax, who should you want to cut the utility tax for? You ought to cut... want to cut the utility taxes for that poor blue collar worker who already is probably substantial extent on unemployment compensation, for the guy that's up against the wall right now. Instead, he chooses to cut... to cut taxes for some other people, for some other groups, not for the person, the individual who can't figure out how to make his budget balance, that we 224  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 ought to be trying to deal with. And he does that in a fashion that to a sig... significant extent is just going to make it that much harder to balance the budget, that much harder to take care of the people this State Government's supposed to take care of in a year when we're right against the wall with the state budget. This is a bad Bill. At this stage, this is a silly Bill, and we ought to defeat this Bill real quick."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hoffman."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield to a question?"

"Indicates he will."

"What does the fiscal note indicate that this will reduce the utility tax by?"

"The fiscal note states that this would reduce the state revenue by a nondetermined amount. I really can't say because they really didn't give me any figures. It... it would reduce it, but to what degree, they don't know."

"Is it correct that for FY '82 the public utility tax generated five hundred eighty six million dollars?"

"That's correct."

"And it's estimated in '83 it will generate six hundred and fifty five million dollars?"

"Yes."

"Thank you very much. I... I have only this to add. The very people that we're addressing by this exemption, under Section 501 C(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, covers a... a plethora of types of organizations. Now if we want to address schools, we could recognize some... some reasonable problem and some reasonable concern there, but we... when we include all other organizations under that category, we are dealing with significant amounts of 225  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 dollars, dollars which, certainly at this juncture, we cannot afford to lose or to suggest tc the public that we're willing to play favorites with certain groups as opposed to the general populace. And for that ri... that reason, I rise in opposition to this legislation."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Bepresentative Barger: Barger." "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the General Assembly, this particular Bill would wreck havoc with some of our local communities. The City of Wheaton provides police, fire, and city services to fifty-seven... fifty-seven tax-free organizations, business organizations. It re... it applies these same services for a large private college which would be tax-exempt, which is tax-exempt. provides services to the county, because we are the county seat, and they are tax-exempt. There's a large housing project in town, which under this circunstance, would also be tax-exempt. The school districts pay absolutely nothing for the services. We provide police and fire protection It for the schools, and these all have to paid for by the City. We are... they are, schools are also exempt from all other forms of taxation. We happen to have a City where all of our industry, except one little screw factory that hires a hundred people, are tax-exempt organizations. This would put an unnecessary burden upon the home owners of the community. and it would have a very adverse effect. These tax-exempt organizations get their vehicle licenses for practically nothing. They get exemptions from their sales tax. They provide practically nothing towards supporting the communities that they exist in other than underpaid employees, whom have a very hard time supporting themselves in a decent community. Because of the exemption of their type of business, they don't have to pay the minimum wage. 226  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 This is a problem, and it's a very big problem to some of us. And this Bill is a disaster, as far as some cities are concerned. So, I would suggest very strongly that we vote against this. If we are going to help tax-exempt organizations, let's help them in some other fashion, other than putting the burden of all of this onto the local communities. Thank you very much."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Krska. The Gentleman moves the previous question. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The previous question has been moved. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?' Representative Terzich, you care to close?"

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. That's kind of you. Representative Barger,... some of them, that this does not effect any municipal utility tax. This is only the state utility tax. And the same people that were talking about assisting the small income people and what have you, these are the same people that are paying the property tax to support our school districts, the same people that send their children to these schools, and it's like robbing Peter to pay Paul. A lot of these institutions have made great contributions to our society. They do teach our children. They are nonprofit organizations. If you went and seen their utility bills, which amounts to approximately ten percent of their... the cost, is simply taxation on the utility bills. They're having difficult problems. They're also great contributors to the State of Illinois. This is an equitable provision to allow them to have some relief from the utility tax. They do make a contribution, and I would appreciate your support for Senate Bill 1107."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All 227  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 those in favor vote 'aye", those opposed will vote "סם". The voting is open. Representative Shaw, one minute to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in opposition to this tax because... to this Bill, because everyone know that if the state haven't got the money for public aid, or the state's portion of money that comes to the cities, then somebody's going to have pay that money, and it would be the cities. And I think this would have great impact on the City of Chicago. Therefore, I'm against this Bill."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 34 voting 'aye, 66 voting "no", 10 voting 'present'. Representative Terzich."

"I'm going to report this Bill to God. So let that be on your conscience."

"This Bill, having failed to receive the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared lost. Appearing on the Order of State Revenue and Financial Policies is Senate Bill 1115. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1115, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act in relationship to the definition of licensing and regulation of community currency exchanges and ambulatory currency exchanges. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Gentleman from St. Clair, Bepresentative Flinn."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Senate Bill 1115 clarifies the criteria that is to be used by the Director of Financial Institutions in determining whether to grant a new license to a currency exchange. The Bill has passed the Senate 228  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 unanimously and with approval of the House Financial Institutions Committee the same way. It does basically two things. The Director is not to grant a license unless he finds that the needs of the community would be promoted by such an additional license, and he also has to take into consideration the impact on those ... the financial stability on those existing exchanges. I would ask for a favorable vote and try to answer any questions."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1115. And on that question, the Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."

"Representative Flinn, does this Bill clarify the standards, or does it add a new standard; namely, needs of a community, to the existing law?"

"Well, it does two things basically in the standards. It not only determines if there... The Director must determine if there is a need likewise, and he also needs to determine the financial impact upon those existing currency exchanges that already have a license. There's two things he does."

"Okay. Well, speaking... speaking to the Bill."

"Proceed, Sir."

"As I read the language of this Act, what we're really doing is to give existing currency exchanges a monopoly. And if that's what we want to do, if that's what the Legislature's about is giving monopolies to existing business and industry, then I suppose you should vote for it. But if you'll look carefully at the language of the Bill, if this Bill becomes law, we... let me... Strike that. Existing law provides that only the convenience and advantage to the community must be considered. If this Bill passes, then when we have an application for a license for a community currency exchange, the application shall be 229  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 denied unless the proposed exchange would promote the convenience and advantage and the needs of the community. And it also, as Representative Flinn..., requires that there be a study and... not a study, a determination of the effects on other community currency exchanges. Now, a lot of people in here believe, as I do, that free enterprise is the best way to operate our economy, and this Bill is everything that's 'anathetical to free enterprise. And if this Bill pass, we put the onus on new businesses, new businesses wanting to operate in the free enterprise system to meet a very difficult-to-meet standard to be able to even get a license to operate. And what this Bill does is it will give existing businesses a nearly absolute monopoly in the market. And if we want to provide benefits, not only for the economic system generally, but for consumers who want to be able to provide or provide for those consurers the various services of businesses in Illinois at the lowest possible cost, then it would seem to me to make the most sense to keep the law the way it is now. We still have meaningful... We have some regulation. We have some limitation which you may or may not agree with. But if you go to this last step, we have an absolute, total corporate-run state monopoly in this area, and I don't think that's what we need. I don't think that serves the public interest, and I think, for those reasons and despite the fact that the Sponsor is a person who everybody in here respects very much, it's not a good Bill. And you ought to vote "no" on it."

"Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Tuerk."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, in order for me to add my opposition, I believe I'd have to ask to take this off Short Debate, and I'd so move." • Speaker Yourell: "Gentleman asks leave to take this Bill off 230  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day Short Debate. Tuerk: Debate. June 27, 1983 Is he joined by others? The Bill is on Full Proceed, Representative Tuerk." "Well, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, in addition to what the previous speaker just said about monopolies, I, too, believe that there were some good changes made by the Legislature in the last four or five years along this line. I think what this Bill would do is restore some of the bad elements of the Currency Exchange Act. Therefore, I would stand in opposition to the Bill and would ask for a 'no' vote.'

"The Lady from Kane, Representative Zwick."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. I rise to join with Representative Flinn in supporting this Bill. As the Minority Spokesperson on Financial Institutions, this Bill did come out of Committee with a unanimous vote. I believe that all it is really doing is adding one criteria. There is already an existing list of criteria, and all the additional criteria does is help to promote industry in the area and ensure a sound financial basis in the area so that it is not overrun with any one type of service predominately. It does not create monopolies. It does not do any of those things that I think were mentioned earlier. It simply encourages a good business... business climate in each local community and allows the Director to use this criteria in making his decision. And I would urge you to support the Bill."

"The Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Assembly, I rise in support of the Bill. I think that people ought to pay particular attention to the Republican Spokesman on the Committee who just spoke on the issue. I believe the Committee examined this at some length, and I believe that 231  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 the history of currency exchange regulation ought to be considered before a decision is made on this Bill. Now, some four or five years ago, I believe it was in 1977, there was a substantial expose, and a substantial investigation of the currency exchange industry undertaken. And this Legislature did in fact, on the recommendation of Governor Thompson, enact a long series of reforms that made it a very different industry from what it had been. At that time, we removed this particular language that this Bill would now put back into law. And at that time, while I was not a Member of the Assembly, I did work for that legislation. However, the situation has changed since then, and I want to explain this. The intent at the time in '77 was to make this industry a fully competitive. industry. What we did not take into consideration was the fact that the financial institution industry is just inherently not appropriate for full ccepetition. And what we subsequently did, I believe tuc years ago as a Legislature, was to reconsider that decision and to impose instead a different situation in the industry where we were regulating rates. Prior to '77, financial institutions never regulated the rates of the currency exchange industry. Subsequently, I believe in 1980, we authorized the Director to begin regulating rates. Now, the problem that had occurred with regard to the necessary and convenient language, after rate... after you impose rate regulation, just is no longer there. And if you have rate regulation, then you ought to appropriately ensure that you are not imposing so many institutions in the community that none of them can be appropriate. If you're going to regulate the rates, which this General Assembly has chosen to do now, then you also have to ensure that you do not have a situation where no institutions can make a 232  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day reasonable profit. June 27, 1983 And for that reason, I would rise in support of the Bill."

"Gentleman from Madison, Representative Wolf."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"Gentleman has moved the previous question. All those in favor will say 'aye', opposed 'no'. The previous question is moved. Representative Flinn to close."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I think some of the previous speakers in support of this Bill stated the facts right. This is not eliminating competition. It's a regulated industry now that we set the rates, for example, on what they can charge for cashing checks or money orders. I'm sure that the savings and loan industry is regulated, and they also look into the need for those before they grant a new license the same way with banks. And I would ask for a favorable Roll Call."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', those opposed will vote 'no'. The voting is open. Representative Olson, one minute to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. We would ask for a verification of this Roll if it passes the required 60."

"That's within your right, Sir. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 72 voting 'aye', 30 voting 'no', 8 voting 'present'. And the Gentleman has request a verification. Representative Mulcahey 'aye'. No? Representative Mulcahey."

"Mr. Speaker, I would ask leave to be verified now."

"Gentleman asks leave to be verified. Leave is granted. Calling it off, Sir? The Gentleman... The Gentleman withdraws his verification. On this question 233  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 there are 72 voting 'aye', 30 voting 'no', 8 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. May I have your attention for just a moment? It's the intention of the Chair to continue going through the Calendar the best we can until about 8:00 or 9:00. There's a number of Bills that we have to get to. So, if you have need of dinner or whatever, you might order out. It's the intent of the Chair to go till 8:00 or 9:00. Appearing on the Order of State Revenue and Financial Policies appears Senate Bill 1268. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1268, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Income Tax Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Gentleman from Kendall, Representative Hastert."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, may I have leave to take this back to Second Reading?"

"Gentleman asks leave to return the Bill to Second Reading for purpose of Amendments. Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted. Mr. Clerk, the Amendment."

"Amendment #1, Ewing, amends Senate Bill 1268 on page.."

"Representative Bastert, Amendment #1. Representative Ewing."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, this puts an immediate effective date in this Bill. It's very important to have that in there, and I would ask for favorable approval."

"Gentleman moves 'do adopt' on Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1268. That's the question. All those in favor will say 'aye', those opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Amendment's adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments." 234  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983

"Third Reading. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1268, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Income Tax Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Gentleman asks leave to consider the Bill immediately on Third Reading. Does Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted. Mr. Hastert."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Senate Bill 1268 is a technical Bill. It was drafted by the Department of Revenue. Basically what it does, the Department of Revenue has three months from the time that an income tax is filed to... to give a return, three months without giving the nine percent interest. What they want to do is just define what that three months is, and they want to be free from the time that they turn the voucher over to the Comptroller's Office and the lapse of time, it might be two days or three days or five days, that the Comptroller takes to draw that check and mail it. So what it does is it's just a definition of time. It says that those three months are the time that they receive the return to the time that they send that voucher to the Department of Revenue. It's a rather simple Bill, and I ask for your affirmative vote and be free to answer any questions."

"Gentleman moves the passage of Senate Bill 1268. Chair recognizes Representative Bopp."

"Mr. Speaker, would the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Mr. Representative, as a taxpayer if I'm deliquent in my taxes, do I get 90 days before I have to pay without any interest?"

"Well, you do have a 90 days to file an extention."

"Without any... Without any interest. Is that correct?" 235  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"Yes, you do, unless you owe money."

"Well, that's... June 27, 1983 That was somewhat the question."

"Representative Ropp, to answer your question, this only involves refunds. The law is already in place, and this defines what those 90 days are. It's not putting anything new into the books."

"Yeah. Okay. Thank you."

"Representative Brummer."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"What is the... What is the normal length of time for processing by the Comptroller's Office?"

"It's my information it could be anywhere from five to ten days."

"Well, you know, whenever we passed this Bill... this law in the first place to provide interest to the taxpayer who is entitled to a refund, if the refund was not made in three months, I doubt if the taxpayer cares if it's the Department of Revenue that's holding it up or if it's the Comptroller's Office, if it's the Treasurer's Office or if its some other agency of government. It seems to me what we're really doing is adding on up to a potentially additional ten days making it like a hundred days before they're entitled to interest under the provisions of this Bill. Is that right?"

"Well, what it does is what we're saying is that if it takes the Department of Revenue 90 days to process a return, then the certification of the voucher is done by the Comptroller, and we really don't want to hold the Department of Revenue responsible for that. We're just saying that those 90 days, within maybe a ten day lapse, five to ten day lapse, is the period of time that is interest free..." 236  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

June 27, 1983 "Well, if the voucher was lost, for example, in the Comptroller's Office and wasn't discovered for another 45 days or 90 days or something of this nature, in effect, the taxpayer would never get interest under the provisions of this Bill then, as long as the voucher was transmitted to the Comptroller's Office within the 90 days."

"Well, that's true. Usually the..."

"You know, at times the reason that refunds don't come down are because the Department of Revenue hasn't... hasn't done their work; but, quite frankly, other times the reason, I suppose, that refunds don't come down is because the Comptroller hasn't done his work, or they've messed up or they've lost a voucher or something of this nature. I think the intent of the existing law is to provide a refund to the tax... I mean, to provide interest to the taxpayer when he doesn't get the refund within 90 days. You know, he just gets a refund from the government. He doesn't care if the agency at fault is the Department of Revenue, the Comptroller's Office, the Treasurer's Office, the Public Aid Office or whatever office it is. If he hasn't received the refund within 90 days, he ought to be entitled to interest under the existing law, and that's what the existing law provides. This would exclude the... the time that the voucher may be laying in the Comptroller's Office. I guess it's not a major matter, but I just don't think it's good public policy. I would urge a 'no" vote."

"Representative Brummer..."

"Representative Leverenz."

"Brummer... I think that was a guestion to me, and you didn't give me a chance to answer it. But one of the technical parts of this is that the Department of Revenue has to certify the interest when they pass the voucher onto the Department of Revenue. And it's... you know, they have 237  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 to certify that interest at that point when they give the voucher. So, it's, you know, you have to computate everything before you turn it over to the Department of Revenue. And if you have a lapse time of five to ten days, it's kind of hard to computate that when you have to certify it before the fact. And this is simply what you're trying to do. I appreciate your... your concern on this, and I'm sure the Comptroller's Office has been very efficient and doesn't lose things like that."

"Representative Leverenz."

"The Gentleman yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"One of your comments or answers included that it's no different than what they are doing now. Is that correct?"

"Representative, all it does is clarify. We're saying the law takes... that allows the Department of Revenue three months before the nine percent interest is starting to be computated on it is that that's the period of time from the receipt of the return to the time that they certify the voucher to the Department of... to the Comptroller's Office. And the technical part of that is that they also have to certify the interest at that time."

"Well, if it's essentially no different than what we're doing now, what do we need the Bill for?"

"Well, we need some clarification, Representative."

"Who asked for this Bill?"

"The Department of Revenue, Sir."

"Director Johnson wants... Is he in support of this?"

"Well, he didn't ask me, personally."

"Well, they have difficulty processing them now in 90 days. True?"

"Yes, and this is what the law defines; that if it's anytime after 90 days that they have to pay interest. But 238  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 that's the time that they certify it to the Comptroller's Office."

"Has the Department of Revenue, rather than have this Bill, ever considered contracting with American Express?"

"I really haven't been involved in that negotiation. I'm not aware of that, Sir."

"To the Bill, I... Speaker, I really think that the Department of Revenue should consider contracting with American Express who can process things in less than 30 days, who has a mechanism to be able to handle a volume of pieces of paper and get the paper cut on time and get it to the proper people so that our constituents really wouldn't have to worry about whether they were going to get interest or not. For Director Johnson, maybe you can give him a yellow vote and hopefully it'll pass with 61."

"Representative Shaw."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"Gentleman moves the previous question. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes have it. The previous question has been put. Representative Hastert to close."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Assembly, I think we've talked about this amply. Let me reiterate one more time it's a technical Amendment saying that the Department of Revenue has to certify the interest as well as the amount of the check, the refund check, and that they aren't held responsible from the time they certify that interest and the check to the time that the Comptroller's Office delivers that check to the... to the taxpayer. I ask for your favorable vote."

"Question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor will vote 'aye', those opposed 'no'. Representative Friedrich, one minute to explain his vote." 239  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"I think this Bill is important; June 27, 1983 because, if the Department of Revenue did their work in two months and fifteen days and then there was a delay past the 90 days because of processing at the Comptrcller's Office, interest would be due and it would have to be turned back to Revenue to figure the amount of interest again. There would be a point of no return over and over again. I think this is a good Bill."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 82 voting 'aye", 22 voting 'no', 5 voting present". This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Panayotovich, for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you, ㄷ. Speaker. Gn behalf of the 31 freshman, I would like to thank you for letting us know that we will be out by 9:00 and we will be proceeding from thereafter. Thank you very much."

"Representative Nautino wants to know if he can come to your party."

"If he brings... If he brings beer."

"No, you can't come, but you can be recorded as voting 'no'. Appearing on the Order of State Revenue and Financial Policies appears Senate Bill 1312. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1312, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the occupation and use taxes on highrise fire safety systems. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Terzich."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Senate Bill 1312 amends the State Sales Tax Act. It exempts from the state sales tax only certain fire protection systems installed in highrise fire buildings. It also excludes from the sales tax the sales 240  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 of precious metals, or currency or medallions or whatever type issued by the State of Illinois, or the United States of America or any other government which is of legal tender. And I'd be more than happy to answer any questions and appreciate your support."

"Representative Terzich moves the passage of Senate Bill 1312. And on that question, Chair recognizes Representative Churchill."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen. Would the Sponsor yield for a few questions?"

"Indicates he will."

"Representative, could you tell me why gold or silver should be exempt from sales tax?"

"Yes, I can. I'd be more than happy to. I mentioned that this is legal tender, the same as any other investment, whether it be certificate of deposits, or gold, or silver or any other investment. This does not exclude Jewelry, such as diamonds or watches or rings or anything. This is only legal tender."

"This is not bullion?"

"Yes, it is bullion. That's right."

"It does include gold bars."

"Yes, it does."

"Does it also include South African Kruggerands?"

"It includes legal tender."

"Are South African Kruggerands included?"

"Yes. It also includes United States medallions as well, as well as State of Illinois that may issue any legal tender."

"How... Do we charge a sales tax on say the sale of a painting?"

"I really couldn't tell you. I haven't bought any lately." 241  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day

"How about any other collectibles, such as oriental rugs or antiques?"

"I don't know. I would assume so."

"Could you tell me, by any chance, would this legislation have any impact on any pending litigation?"

"I don't know what's litigating."

"Are you aware that one of the sponsors, one of the promoters, the proponents of this Bill testified before the Revenue Committee presently has a lawsuit pending in Sangamon County Circuit Court on the issue of taxing gold and silver purchases?"

"I don't know who is involved in this. I couldn't tell you. Apparently, you know. I don't."

"To the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed."

"I rise in opposition to this Bill for several reasons. First reason is I don't see why we should give any sort of sales tax relief to the purveyors of gold and silver. We don't give that same sales tax relief for the sale of art, or stamp, or oriental rugs. This is just something else that people can invest in, another collectible, an item that they can take and put in their safe deposit box, an investment. There's no reason why we should give any sales tax relief to the sellers of gold and silver, to the purchasers. I think this Bill is extremely suspect. The... One of the people who was a proponent of this Bill in the Committee actually has litigation pending right now in Sangamon County Circuit Court in regards to the sales tax on the sale of silver and gold. This legislation may have a direct impact on that litigation. I also question why we're giving a tax break which can turn around and encourage the purchase of South African Kruggerands. With all of the talk we've had in this Body 242  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 about buy America, it seems strange that we would now give a tax break for buy South African. I want tc call this Bill by its proper name. I think this Bill really is a tax break for the super rich. Anyone who can afford to buy the gold and silver, certainly can afford to pay the tax on it. That is the reason that I oppose this Fill."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to agree with the previous speaker. It seems that here again, Ladies and Gentlemen, we have another fine example of the hypocrisy that abounds in this House from time tc time. Not only does this give exemptions to the Kruggerand, which is a repulsive exemption by my way of thinking, but actually it gives exemption to the whole Board of Trade. And I think one of these days, Ladies and Gentlemen, when we learn to tap into where the money flows, we will never have to worry about another income tax increase. I'm opposed to this Bill."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative McAuliffe."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would rise in support of this Bill. What Representative Terzich is doing is telling you that if you go to currency store, if you go to the coin store and you buy a silver dollar, you don't have to pay sales tax on it. If you get a silver dollar at the bank or go to the First National Bank and you want to buy a Canadian Maple Leaf, you don't have to pay sales tax on that. It gives the coin dealers in the state... it puts them at a very bad disadvantage, because you can go to the First National Bank or the Continental Bank downtown and you can get... you can exchange your money for a Kruggerand or for a Maple Leaf or any other form of gold coin. And you get exactly what the face value of the coin is. If you go to a coin store, the 243  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day June 27, 1983 coin store is forced to pay you.. is forced to charge you sales tax. So, it puts all the coin dealers in Illinois at a terrific disadvantage when it comes to dealing in coins, because the big banks don't have to pay... don't have to collect the sales tax and the little coin dealers do, So that the people, when they go out and shop for gold coins and silver coins, won't deal with the coin dealer. They'll go to the First National Bank or the Continental Bank, and they'll get it there and save the sales tax. It's putting the small businessman cut of business."

"Gentleman from Bond, Representative Slape."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move the... move the previous question."

"Gentleman moves the previous question. All those in favor will say 'aye", opposed "no". The 'ayes' have it. The previous question has been put. Representative Terzich to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Bill actually is going to provide some fairness and equity. Anybody knows that if they're dealing in large commodities, they wouldn't buy any coin from a coin dealer. They would buy it from the commodity market. They would buy it from out of state. They can buy bullions by millions and millions of dollars that they don't have to pay sales tax. But if someone is going out to buy a gold coin, whether it's the Louie Armstrong U. S. Medallion or anything of this nature, this is simply legal tender. It is not a comsumable product. There are other states that have recognized this, such as California, Idaho, Louisana, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Florida and Utah, and this only is dealing with the small purchaser. It doesn't deal with the large purchaser. The loss of revenue, I believe it was less than a hundred thousand dollars, and I would appreciate your support for 244  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 73rd Legislative Day Senate Bill 1312."

June 27, 1983 "Question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor will vote 'aye', those opposed will vote 'no'. The voting is open. Representative Fowman, one minute to explain his vote." "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Hosue. I think the Gentleman from Lake had it right; that if you have enough money to be able to buy and sell gold and silver, you have the ability to pay the tax. One of the fundamental principles of taxation is ability to pay. And if there is any tax that clearly demonstrates the ability to pay of the taxpayer, it is a tax on gold and silver, and I think we should retain that tax. We see no demonstrable need for repealing at this time."

One mom..." "Representative Hastert to explain his vote.

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, it looks like there's enough red votes up there, but this Bill was deliberated long and hard in Revenue. It's for one purpose and several purposes. The coin dealers in Springfield and Chicago who are the largest Kruggerand dealers in the nation want this Bill. What it does is exempt them from taxes. It'll cost the State of Illinois over 10 million dollars if this Bill passes, and I think we need a few more red votes up there."

"Reprsentative Brookins, one minute to explain Brookins: his vote." "I rise in support of this Bill. If we're going to compete against the Kruggerand, if we're going to offer some alternative, then we need to vote 'yes' on this Bill. Now, the first Bill... the first coin, we have a Louie Armstrong coin. We have a Mary B. Anderson. These are valuable coins. So, I rise in favor of this Bill." 245  STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMELY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBΑΤΕ 73rd Legislative Day

Sir?" June 27, 1983 "Representative Huff, did you speak in debate,

"I've got a right to explain my vote. Do I not, Mr. Speaker?"

"Proceed, Sir."

"Thank you, Sir. I don't get up that often, Ladies and Gentlemen, but I must insist that we... the argument that Representative Terzich is using is a falacious argument. This ... These bullions and these gold coins, Ladies and Gentlemen, are not going to be used as units of exchange of... item of unit of change. They are, in fact, commodities rather than legal tender, and they should be treated as such and not as legal tender in the sense of the word that we know it. These exchanges, in fact, are commodities in which profits are made off the value thereof, and there should be a tax, Ladies and Gentlemen. I think the equasion flows boths ways."

"Representative Ronan to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was confused about this Bill; but, after listening to Representative Erookins, I understand that it does have a lot of merit, and I vote 'aye'."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? On this question there are 36 voting 'aye', 76 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. Representative Terzich. I can hear you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That's very nice. You know. I kind of resent certain remarks as well. It is a fact that the Bill does contain an Amendment that says that it only covers legal tender. It did exclude any... They are at a distinct disadvantage. All of the rich guys who go buy this here bullion and so on should know that they go and buy it, and they don't pay any sales tax on it. They can 246  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 buy it from Florida, anywhere else. It only dealt with the small coin dealer, and apparently those people that buy all the stuff must get it from New York or Florida or whatever the case. But if you want to go and save a few dollars and you buy yourself a gold medallion, make sure you pay the sales tax and help the world along. And it doesn't deal with the Kruggerands, the big Kruggerands. It also deals with Louie Armstrong medallion. It would also deal with the State of Illinois when they have the World's Fair, and it only deals in legal tender. And it doesn't go with your baloney about all of that billion dollar..."

"On this question there are 36 voting 'aye', 76 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. This Bill having failed to receive the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared lost. Appearing on that same Order of Business is Senate Bill 1319. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1319, a Bill for an Act to add Sections to the Illinois Municipal Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Giorgi."

"Mr. Speaker, this Bill is necessitated because of the loss of home rule by the City of Rockford. What happens is Rock... this... Rockford was providing handicap and elderly bus services, and now they feel, because of their cut back in taxing powers, they can't provide it any longer. So, we're going to have a front door referendum to provide handicap and elderly bus services. And the Illinois Taxpayers' Federation suggested the Amendment we adopted. The second Amendment has to do with... annexations and that is the municipality and the affected property owners must agree. The third Amendment is by Giglio that has to do with township elections. I'm not too familiar with that Amendment, but we debated the Amendments fully and I urge 247  73rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 83RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 27, 1983 your support."

"Gentleman moves the passage of Senate Bill 1319. And on that question, the Chair recognizes Representative Honan."

"Yeah, will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Yeah, Representative Giorgi, is this a conflict of interest for you?"

"I have so many interests. I've only got two I won't talk about, but what is it you're worried about?"

"Well, I understand it has something to do with handicapped people, and I want to know if you... you have a conflict of interest on this Bill."

"That's right. You're right. You're right."