"Let us pray. If we were to take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there Your hand would hold us. If we were to take the wings of the morning, in Your Spirit we would be lifted and refreshed, inspired and exhilarated. Let us this day take the wings of the morning, be lifted above everything that is small, petty, all that is cynical and not worth our time, and all within us that is anxious and fretful. If we were to take the wings of the morning, we would see the earth very far beneath us and gain new perspective for our living. Grant us to transcend ourselves and be born aloft by Your peace and grace. Refresh us with the wings of the morning when we are tired and exhausted by our work and help us to particularly transcend ourselves by laughter when we are tempted to forget that life is far too important to be taken always so seriously. And thank You for those who give themselves in public service. For this day, for this Assembly, grant to them Your Spirit and Your Wisdom this day and grant them joy and support in their lives away from this place. Bless their families and those they love. Bless us when decisions are difficult and the contending force is strong. Bless us when there is no right answer and simply shades of gray. Bless us when everyone will oppose the decisions we make because of their own points of view. Bless us and refresh us with Your Spirit that there will be times throughout this day when we 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 will, in faith, be born again constantly by the wings of the morning, when in discussion and contemplation we are suddenly lifted so that we proceed each day as seeing before us that which is eternal. We give You thanks particularly for life together on May 22nd, for all of its hours, for the gladness of its promise. Amen."
"Be led in the Pledge of Allegiance by Representative Ropp."
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"Roll Call for Attendance. Representative Rea."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. If it was not against the rules of the House, I would at this time introduce a school group from my area, Ewing Northern, up here and would ask all of you to welcome them to Springfield."
"Take the record. Representative Matijevich, do you have any excused absences?"
"Yes, Representative Nelson Rice, due to illness."
"And there's none on the Republican side. 116 Members answering the Roll Call, a quorum is present. Agreed Resolutions."
"Senate Joint Resolution 160, offered by Representative Ropp. House Joint Resolution 201, by McAuliffe: 202, Ryder et al: 203, Hadigan and Daniels. House Resolutions 1346, Madigan; 1347, Williamson; 1349, Giorgi and Hallock."
"Representative Matijevich."
"Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, these Resolutions are congratulatory. I move the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions." 2 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed "no". The 'ayes have it, and the Agreed Resolutions are adopted. Death Resolutions."
"House Resolution 1338, offered by Representative Wyvetter Younge, with respect to the memory of Theodore Christian, Sr. House Resolution 1341, offered by Representative Kubik, with respect to the memory of Doctor William J. H. Sisson. House Resolution 1350, offered by Representative Levin - Cullerton and Sutker, with respect to the memory of Cantor Moses J. Silverman."
"Gentleman moves for the adoption of the Death Resolutions. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed "no". The 'ayes have it, and the Death Resolutions are adopted. General Resolutions."
"House Resolution 1348, offered by Representative Saltsman."
"Committee on Assignment. Page 21 of the Calendar, House Sills Third Reading, Short Debate, appears House Bill 2626, Representative Stange. Gentleman in the chamber? Representative Stange. Representative Panayotovich. Out of the record. House Bill 3078, Representative Hawkinson. Mr. Clerk."
"House ill 3078, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Metropolitan Civic Center Support Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman asks leave to return the Bill to Second Reading for purposes of an Amendment. Does the Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted. Second Reading."
"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Rea."
"Representative Rea, Amendment #1."
"I withdraw Amendment 1." 3 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986
"Gentleman withdraws Amendment #1. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Pangle - Hawkinson."
"Representative Pan... Representative Pangle, Amendment #2."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #2 just gives the right and authority for the Manteno... the versified tech campus and the Galesburg - I don't know the name of it - to invest the checks they receive from the state for development without... with the opportunity to collect interest."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #2. Is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?' All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Hawkinson and Pangle."
"Representative Hawkinson, Amendment #3."
"Withdraw Amendment #3."
"Gentleman withdraws Amendment #3. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Rea."
"Representative Rea."
"Withdraw..."
"Gentleman withdraws Amendment #4. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #5, offered by Representative Rea."
"Representative Rea, Amendment #5." 4 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. takes some May 22, 1986 Amendment #5 corrective action in terms of earlier legislation that we had passed authorizing two of our civic centers, one in Mount Vernon and one in Herrin, to issue revenue bonds at the local level. And the second thing it does is to add West Frankfurt to the list of... that can develop civic center authorities. Ask for adoption."
"Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #5. Is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #5 be adopted?" All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no". The ayes have it. The Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. The Gentleman from Knox asks leave to waive the appropriate rule so that the Bill can be heard on Third Reading at this time. Are there any objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. The rules are waived. Third Reading. Read the Bill. Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3078, a Bill For an Act to amend Sections of the Metropolitan Civic Center Support Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Knox, Representative Hawkinson, on the Bill."
"Thank you. Mr. Speaker. The Bill prior to today's Amendments was a Bill I introduced on behalf of the civic center authority in Knox County which it had an agreement with DCCA providing that the grant that would be obtained, that they would be able to retain the interest on it to pay for the construction projects. The program was delayed over a year because of the delay in the bonding and then DCCA felt that because of the technical provisions of the Grant Recovery Act. that they could not abide by their agreement. It was suggested that I offer a Bill to change 5 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 that provision, and I have done so. The Amendments have been explained by Representatives Pangle and Rea, and they became part of the Bill. But the original Bill has been retained, and I would ask for your support."
"The Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 3078. Is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 3078 pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye, opposed vote "no". Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Bill there are 105 ayes, 6 'nos", 1 voting 'present'. House Bill 3078, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3418, Representative Cullerton. Out of the record. House Bill 3576, Representative Mautino, or Representative Olson. Either of the Gentlemen in the chamber? Out of the record. House Bill 3588, Representative O'Connell, or Representative Keane. Either of the Gentlemen in the chamber? Out of the record. Message from the Senate."
"Message from the Senate, by Mr. Wright, Secretary. •Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives the Senate has passed Bills of the following title and the passage of which I am instructed to ask concurrence of the House of Representatives, to wit; Senate Bills 1519, 1520, 1522 and 1552, passed by the Senate May 21, 1986. Kenneth Wright, Secretary.'"
"Representative Keane, we just took 3588 out of the record. Do you want the Bill called? Out of the record. Page three of the Calendar, Special Order of Business - School Programs, appears House Bill 1459, Representative Countryman. Is the Gentleman here? Representative Hallock, would you handle that? Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"Senate (sic House) Bill 1459, a Bill for an Act 6 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 to amend the Regency Universities Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Hallock."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I do believe Representative Countryman is here. He was here about two minutes ago, and I think he might want to present this Bill himself."
"Do you wish the Bill taken out of the record? You know, we might not get back to some of these Bills."
"Well, I appreciate that, Mr. Speaker, but he was here. I saw him thirty seconds ago. I believe he had to step out for a minute and he'll be right back."
"Okay. House Bill 2587, Representative Greiman. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 2587, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Greiman."
"Thank you. Mr. Speaker. This Bill merely says that gifted programs should be based on a youngster's ability and entry to gifted programs should not be preconditioned or should not... or no one should be left out of a program because of their race, or their religion, their handicap they might have physically and that's all the Bill does."
"Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 2587. Is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 2587 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Bill there are 109 'ayes', 3 'nos', 1 voting 'present'. House Bill 2587, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 2828, Representative Ewing. Read the Bill, Mr. 7 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Clerk."
"House Bill 2828, a Sections of the School Code.
"Gentleman from Ewing." May 22, 1986 Bill for an Act to amend Third Reading of the Bill." Livingston, Representative Ewing: Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Bill is a little unique. It deals with school reorganization area of the schools. In is a small and it deals with the specific problem in my state where we have a number of small particular, one of these small schools, which unit district, has only two viable options for consolidation. Both of those viable options are with dual districts. There isn't any procedure set up in our statute which will allow a unit district to consolidate their high school with a unit... pardon me, a unit district to consolidate their high school with a dual district or an individual high school district. That's what this statute sets up. It also... we've provided in here a self-destruct clause so that the statute won't stay on the books forever. It will provide a window for the consolidation of this small high school which has about 70 students and then will destruct in four years. And I'd be glad to ask (sic) any questions. It's... we've worked out, I think, all of the details on the Bill and including how the staff will be assigned to the different districts, to the consolidated district and to the remaining grade school district."
"The Gentleman moves for the passage of House Gentleman from Cook, Bill 2828. Is there any discussion? Representative Cullerton."
"Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He will."
"Could you describe the effect of Amendment #3 with regard to teachers who are tenured?" 8 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
May 22, 1986 "Amendment #3 is then also amended by Amendment #4, Representative Cullerton, and what you... what it actually provides is that you take a five year average where the teacher's been assigned. The staff in a small district like this many times they teach not only in the high school but maybe in the grade school. If most of their time has been in the high school, they would go with the high school staff and would be in a pool with the consolidated high school and their selection would be based on their seniority. If most of their time is in the grade school, they would stay with the grade school unit that will result after the consolidation. If the... yes. And those that went both ways, if they've taught..."
"Those that go..."
"... haven't taught completely in each of the district, they have their choice."
"Those that go both ways get their choice?"
"You know, that's pro choice."
"They get to choose which district..."
"Which... If they've taught in both the high school and the grade school, then they get their choice. I want to correct that. If they've taught all the time in the high school, they go with the high school. If they've taught all the time in the grade school, they stay with the grade school. If they've taught in both, then they have their choice."
"This only applies in this context of this Bill which is limited to probably one school district in the state?"
"Well, it's limited to high school districts that are under 200 students."
"Under this Bill, how many districts would qualify?"
"I couldn't tell you."
"You can only..." 9 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"But many of our... many small high school districts are not adjacent to a... pardon me. Many small unit districts are not adjacent to a high school district. There aren't very many high school districts left in the state."
"That's what I mean. That's why I want to know how many..."
"Very few, but I couldn't tell you how many."
"You have one in mind though, don't you?"
"Oh, I do, yes."
"Yeah, where is that?"
"And I thought I made that point."
"Where is that located?"
"That's in Livingston County, the heart of Illinois."
"I see. Okay, thank you."
"Representative Hallock. Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 2828 pass? All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Bill there are 113 'ayes', no 'nays', none voting 'present'. House Bill 2828, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 2864, Representative Ropp. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 2864, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. House Bill 2864 increases the number of categories of individuals that can participate in extra vocational educational training during the summer months. Currently the law says that only vocational teachers can participate in the vocational instructional program. This Bill adds vocational counselors, as well as vocational administrators, in an 10 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 ever increasing attempt to make available the very best possible teachers for young people in the State of Illinois. Currently, under the school reform package of Senate Bill 730, 1.5 million was offered for this program this year. Under the proposed budget I think for this coming year, it's 1.7. Each one of those teachers receive a grant up to 2000 dollars to participate in that program. I'll be happy to answer any questions and welcome your support."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 2864. And on that, Representative Cullerton."
"Yes, would the Sponsor yield?"
"Yes."
"Representative Ropp, this program that we passed last year was part of the reform package. Basically, would you say that it involves taking teachers in the summer months and having them be employed by private industry?"
"That's correct, with an attempt, not necessarily totally employed, but giving them an opportunity to be brought up to date on current kinds of public employment."
"And why do these private industry people want to hire these teachers?"
"Well, they don't... I don't know whether they necessarily want to hire them, but it is an attempt to give the teacher..."
"Well does the... Let me ask you a question about the payment. Do the private industries, these private companies that hire these teachers, do they pay their salary?"
"I think they can pay up to 300 dollars, if I'm not mistaken."
"From whom?"
"Thirty percent. So, it would be 700 dollars." 11 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"From whom? Who do they get paid from?"
"The company will pay up to 30 percent, if they choose to do so."
"Up to 30 percent of their salary?"
"Up to 30 percent of the 2000."
"Which means the... who pays the difference?"
"The state in the grant that we have appropriated the State Board of Education."
"So, we give money to private companies so that they'll hire teachers in the summer?"
"No, we don't... we don't give them to the company. We give them to the individuals. If the company would give 700 dollars then the state..."
"Oh, so, we hire teachers to work for private companies in the summer? And you want to expand that program with this Bill."
"Absolutely, so that not only the teachers, but those people who are counselors and vocational administrators are truly, equally acquainted with the new, innovative vocational programs that the young students will be going into as soon as they graduate from the programs they are either counseling or administrating for."
"Well, how did the State Board of Education, what did they say the results of the first year were?"
"The first year is in progress."
"Oh, it hasn't started yet."
"The applications went out, I think, April. And so, the first actual summer program will begin June, July and August of this year."
"Do you know whether or not the issue of whether we should include public school counselors and administrators was taken up last year when we passed the reform package?"
"I don't believe it was. I wasn't aware of it and that's 12 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 why it is felt that this should be added at this time. Let me also add for the record anyway that teachers will be given first priority anyway, and if there is insufficient number of teachers to participate, then counselors and vocational administrators would be the next on the list to participate."
"Okay. Thank you."
"Further discussion? There being none. the question is, "Shall House Bill 2864 pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Bill there are 97 'ayes', 15 'nos', 1 voting 'present'. House Bill 2864, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Returning to a Bill that was taken out of the record. House Bill 1459, Representative Countryman. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 1459, a Bill for an Act to amend the Regency Universities Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from DeKalb, Representative Countryman."
"Ask... Thank you, Mr... Thank you. Mr. Speaker. I ask leave of the Body to move this Bill back to Second for purposes of amendment."
"Gentleman asks leave to return the Bill to Second Reading for purposes of amendment. Hearing no objections, leave is granted. Second Reading. Mr. Clerk."
"House Amendment #3, offered by Representative Countryman and Ryder."
"The Gentleman from DeKalb, Representative Countryman, Amendment #3."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #3 amends the Regency Universities Act to provide that no president of a 13 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 regency university appointed on or after the effective date of this amendatory Act of 1986 shall be granted tenure as a faculty member at such university."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #3. And on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."
"Yes, I think if you want to be on public radio tomorrow, you'd better be a little more specific as to what this is really doing here."
"Well, I don't think it can be any clearer, Representative Cullerton."
"Who are we doing this to and why?"
"Well, if you're aware of the situation with Northern Illinois University right now, the Board of Regents employed a gentleman from out of state to come in and become president of Northern Illinois University. And they're in the midst of a real donnybrook with him and I think things are going on this morning. But they granted him tenure as president of the University. It's my feeling as president of the University, he should work at the will of the Board and not as a tenured faculty member who has established rights when he hasn't earned tenure in the way In which the rest of the faculty has earned tenure, to come into the University and work within a department and be judged upon his credentials and judged by his peers and then granted the tenure by his peers. It just is in contravention to the university tenure system."
"You mean, when they hired this guy, they gave him tenure, even though he had never taught at the University?"
"That's correct."
"Had he ever taught anywhere?"
"Yes, he had taught at various universities before going into administration." 14 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986
"Northern Illinois had to go and find a president from outside of our state?"
"They did, yes."
"And how long has he been at this job?"
"I believe since July 1st of last year."
"What, ten months?"
"Be about right."
"And now they're about ready to consider whether he should remain?"
"I'm sorry, I didn't hear you."
"The issue now is whether he should remain or the Board of Regents is determining whether or not he should remain?"
"That's correct.”
"And one of the problems is that he's got tenure; and, as a result, they have to... He does or does not have tenure?"
"He does have tenure. And I wouldn't want to see them do that again, and for that reason, I feel it's appropriate to... to make it in the statutes to tell them that they can't do it again."
"Okay. So, the purpose of this Amendment is to make sure that in the future, when they hire a president who perhaps is not a tenured president... a tenured teacher, that they're not going to automatically give him this perk of being a tenured teacher, because when they want to fire him ten months later, they don't have to worry about how to buy him off."
"That's... Hopefully, they won't run into the situation of somebody only being a president for ten months. But I think that the president should work at the will of the Board and at the direction of the Board and under their offices. And that's why I feel that this is an 15 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 appropriate Amendment."
"Representative Hoffman."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield to a question? Is this an uncommon..."
"Excuse me, Representative Hoffman. Has the Amendment been distributed? Yes, it has, Representative Satterthwaite. Proceed, Sir."
"Is this an uncommon practice to grant... for universities to grant tenure to people when they become president?"
"Well, Representative Hoffman, I'm not in the business of hiring university presidents. I think that it may happen in many instances, and I feel it's inappropriate and shouldn't happen."
"Would you believe that it happens 90 percent of the time around the country?"
"Hell, you know more about it than I do probably, in that sense, it probably does."
"If that... If the 90 percent factor is true, how do you think eliminating this from a prerogative, from a prerogative that the Board of Regents has, how do you think that would affect their ability to recruit people as presidents who are... are in positions in other universities where they have been granted this? Because, most of the time, a university the size of Northern is able to recruit presidents or people who have been presidents at other universities. How do you think that would affect their ability to recruit?"
"I think the way to solve the problem is to put it in the statutes, and then the Board of Regents can say it's something that they don't even have in the negotiating ability..."
"Do you think that would have any impact on the... on 16 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the pool from which you could draw?"
"No, I don't."
"Thank you very much. I disagree with the Sponsor of this Amendment. I think it would have a dilatorious effect on the pool from which the people could draw. I don't... I also don't believe that we should make general policy on the basis of... of one set of circumstances. I think this is a rush to judgement. I have... generally have confidences in regencies. I don't think the Board of Regents or any other board of trustees or the Board of Governors batting average is any worse than our batting average here in the General Assembly. We ask people to serve on these boards and to use their good judgement and they obviously are going to... sometimes makes mistakes. But, merely because they don't run the race quite as fast as we think they ought to, I don't think we ought to break one of their legs. And for that reason and with all due respect to what the Sponsor is trying to do, I rise in opposition to this Amendment."
"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Keane."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also rise in opposition to this Amendment. The Board does, in fact, have the right to yank someone when he's a president, and they can yank them as a president. What I think the previous speaker indicated, that one of the things that happens in the recruiting process for a president is because the president is serving at the pleasure of the Board, he usually won't leave his previous employment and I think in the case of the president at Northern, he was a tenured faculty member at the previous university at which he served. One of the ways we get people to go from faculty into administration is to let them continue to keep their tenure in the faculty. And they do return to the faculty if they don't 17 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Hay 22, 1986 work out in the administration. I think that the Amendment is bad because we're taking one situation which we all agree is a very bad situation, and we're passing a law which is going to affect, seriously affect the ability of state universities to... to go out and compete for the best presidents or the best possible presidents they can. I think it's a kind of... Tenure for a president or for a high level administrator is a kind of a safety net. And he's got to have that. He's still removable as president, but he can act with a lot more authority and a lot more ability if he's got the safety net of tenure. And for that reason, I oppose the Amendment."
"Representative Satterthwaite."
"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I too rise in opposition to the Amendment. It is not one that was considered in Committee and I think would have been rejected in the Higher Education Committee. I think it is a mistake for us to be getting into the details of the operations of our university systems. I think that this would... would withdraw from the university the flexibility that they need in offering positions to the people that they feel are most qualified. And I would suggest a 'no' vote."
"The Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich."
"Would the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Do you see any parallel in this case between the State Board of Education repeatedly going out of state to hire the top man? It seems like we get in trouble when we go out of state. We..."
"No. Representative, I don't. I don't think going out of state is the real fault here. I think the problem 18 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 is that people who are in administrative levels, are making administrative decisions and working for a board, they should work at the will of the board and at their sole discretion and not as somebody who's been granted a lifetime appointment."
"Well, I'm going to support your Amendment. But I had hoped that sometime we'd get enough educated people in Illinois that we could control or supervise education with Illinois graduates."
"Representative Levin."
"Would the Gentleman yield?"
"He will."
"Couple of questions. First of all, is it correct that he... if this Amendment is not adopted and he were fired as president, he would be able to remain as a professor? Would the salary be less or would he get the same salary?"
"I can't tell you that. If he has tenure, I think they can reduce their salary in accordance with their proportionate duties in some way and they probably have some ranking for the departments and what have you. I'm certain he'd be a top professor, so he'd pull the greatest salary."
"I'm very sympathetic to your Amendment, but let me ask one further question. Are there any standards for firing a tenured professor for... where they have acted improperly? You know, it seems to me that some of those standards may be applicable in this situation. The misappropriation of public money for private purposes. So, is there a way without this Amendment to get rid of him as a tenured professor?"
"Well, I think the distinctions that would have to be made are kind of a difference between some sort of an outright act of, you know, some wrongdoing, as opposed to 19 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 some person who is working as a president who is not carrying out the intentions of the will or the board that's governing him. And for that reason, I think there are those who wouldn't be carrying out the will of the board that's governing and might not be doing something wrong. And I don't really want to draw light to the specific situations there, but if in fact that's the case, I feel they should... the president of the university should carry out the will of the board that governs and that he's an administrator and not a faculty professor and that the reasons for tenure are to give the academic freedom to the faculty and not to the administration. I think there's a clear distinction."
"Thank you."
"Gentleman from Morgan, Representative Ryder."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stand in support of this Amendment. What is happening is that we are preparing what's known in the business trade as a golden parachute, an opportunity for this man to have perks when they do not deserve that which they are receiving. There are plenty of qualified people in the State of Illinois. In this particular situation, the number two person is the selection process was a qualified, long-term employee of the very institution that we're now speaking. There's lots of folks here at home that have that same situation and what better than to pick someone that's come up through the system? This is a good Amendment. It does not affect the person that we're talking about today because it is prospective only, but it's a good policy, a good precedent, and a good opportunity for us to tell the folks that we want the people of Illinois to be part of these institutions. I support the Amendment."
"No further discussion. Representative 20 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Countryman, to close."
May 22, 1986 "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We've debated the issue pretty well here. It is obviously a policy decision. Let me point out to you that it is not a specific situation that we're dealing with. Those of you who are aware of the situation at Sangamon State, they've had several problems with presidents at Sangamon State University. It seems to me that the question is if you believe that an administrator is a person who should not have tenure, then you should vote for the Amendment. If you believe otherwise, you should vote against the Amendment. And I ask for a favorable vote on the Amendment. Thank you."
"Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #3. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Amendment there are 60 'ayes', 53 'nos'. The Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Countryman and Ryder."
"Representative Countryman, Amendment #4."
"Withdraw Amendment #4."
"Gentleman withdraws Amendment #4. Further Amendments?"
"There are no further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Representative Countryman."
"To ask leave to hear the Bill on Third Reading. Or do I need leave?"
"The Gentleman asks leave to waive Rule 37(c) so that the Bill can be heard on Third Reading at this time. Are there any objections? Hearing objections. The Gentleman... Do you wish to make a Motion to that effect?"
"Yes." 21 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"The Gentleman moves to waive Rule 37(c) so that House Bill 1459 can be heard on Third Reading at this time. The Motion requires 71 votes. And... Is there any discussion? You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. All those in favor of the Motion signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Representative Keane, to explain your vote."
"No, if the... reaches 71, I'm going to verify. If it gets 92, I'm going to verify."
"Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Motion there are 89 'ayes', 20 'nos'. And the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Keane."
"89 is enough. I withdraw my request for a verification."
"And the Motion carries. Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 1459, a Bill for an Act to amend the Regency University Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Countryman."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The underlying Bill brings to the regency universities what exists now for the University of Illinois and Southern Illinois University, and what it allows is the creation of a... of research technological parks by way of leasing of land or portions of the university to private facilities. And with regard to this, the research parks, high technology type... sorts of parks are things that were adopted for the University of Illinois and Southern Illinois Universities a couple of years ago. This brings it in line with what is granted to the University of Illinois and to Southern Illinois University. In essence, what it would do is if one of the universities in the system found someone who was interested in leasing a 22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 portion of a building or leasing land to construct a building on the university campus so that they could engage in joint research or technological type development with people on the campus, they could lease that space and that that space would then... the income from that space would go back to the income fund of the university involved. And in essence, the buildings, if the building were constructed, it could ultimately revert back to the university. I believe it's a good Bill. I believe it's an economic development Bill. You've heard the Amendment that we've just adopted to the Bill. So, the Amendment concerning the employment of president of a regency university who would come in from with... outside the university could not be granted tenure by the Board of Regents. I believe both of those are good concepts, and I'd ask for a favorable vote."
"The Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 1459. And on that, the Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite."
"Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"
"He indicates he will."
"Representative Countryman, the Amendment that was just adopted applied only to one system. Is that true?"
"Representative Countryman."
"That is true."
"In regard to the Bill then, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, the Bill, as it came out of Committee, was one that gave consistency between the systems and would allow the Board of Governors and the Board of Regents the same kind of opportunity to develop high tech parks and research centers that had already been available to Southern Illinois University and the University of Illinois. In that form, I believe the Bill 23 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 was good and gave equity. I think with the Amendment that has recently been adopted to the legislation, we are setting a precedent that I would certainly not want to have extended to the other systems. And so, it seems to me that the people who objected to the Amendment that just went on this Bill would probably be wise voting either 'no' or 'present' to show their objection to that Amendment, because I fear that just as these two systems are seeking equity with legislation that was provided to two other systems earlier, that we will have the risk of coming back at some future time and extending this other provision into other systems. I think that that would be an extremely bad move. And for that reason, I will vote 'present' on the Bill."
"Further discussion? Being none, Representative Countryman, do you wish to close? Proceed."
"Briefly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We've debated a lot of this, but let me say that if you're a tenured faculty member within the system, this Amendment would not apply. If, in fact, you come in from somewhere else, the Amendment would apply. I think it's a question of your philosophy, whether or not an administrator works at the will of the board or he works as a tenured faculty member. And I think it's a good Amendment. I think it's a good Bill, and I'd ask for your favorable vote. Thank you."
"The Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 1459. The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1459 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Representative Bowman, to explain his vote."
"Hell, I'm in favor of the Bill, but I strongly oppose the Amendment that's on the Bill. So, I vote 'present'."
"Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Bill there are 84 'ayes', 8 24 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 'nos', 23 voting 'present', and House Bill 1459, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3089, Representative Greiman. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3089, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to vocational education. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Greiman."
"Thank you, Speaker. This Bill amends the School Code to provide an expansion of the math and science loan equipment program which would now include instructional materials and also deletes some of the requirements as to matching programs in order to get a grant, as well as the nonpublic schools eligible for the voc. ed. programs grant. The problem with it is that we have last year appropriated a great deal of money for programs for voc. ed., but without this Bill no money was actually given out. So, it's important that we begin to really provide funds for the programs that we have voted substantive programs on previously. This Bill will allow those funds to begin to flow and hopefully we will provide a better vocational education program for the young people of Illinois."
"Representative Greiman moves for the passage of House Bill 3089. And on that, the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"Yes, he will."
"Al, when we passed this Bill last year, you were referring to, given its provisions, was it possible for public... or private schools to participate in this program?"
"Yes, that's correct."
"And if this Amendment were passed, would that no 25 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 longer be possible as a practical matter?"
"It's a mixed bag. They would be involved in the math/science program still, but not the voc. ed. program."
"Okay. And what's the purpose for that?"
"I'm told it's a matter that they did not... we're not interested in being in the voc. ed. program: that they... that that was not something that was important and they're not objecting to that. That's what I'm told."
"Okay. To the Bill. I... I don't see why we should cut out what was previously included in this type of program by not allowing private schools to participate. I don't know whether they're interested or not, but what is the point of dropping them out? So, I think that because it cuts that out and there's no, apparently, good reason for doing that, I should oppose the Bill."
"The Lady from DuPage, Representative Cowlishaw."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He will."
"Thank you. Just a couple of questions so that we all understand the provisions of this measure are."
"Including the Sponsor."
"First, the original provisions said that these pieces of equipment and now instructional materials were to go to students. This changes that. They no longer go to students. They go to vocational education programs, school shops and laboratories. Is that correct?"
"That's correct."
"Alright. As originally provided, math and science equipment could go to students in either public or private schools."
"That's correct."
"Now, math and science equipment can still go to laboratories and so forth in private schools, but the new 26 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 provisions can only go public schools. Is that correct?"
"No, the math/science goes to both."
"Right."
"Math/science goes to both."
"Right."
"So, there's no... there's no distinction as to where that goes. That goes to both."
"Alright. What is it that only goes to public schools?"
"The voc. ed. materials."
"Alright. Also, as originally established, this program was to encourage donations by the private sector for math and science equipment and other useful materials for our schools. There was a matching grant provision that had been established. Now, that matching grant provision is abolished. But, let us be absolutely sure this Bill does not prohibit the private sector from donating equipment or other materials for the program."
"No. absolutely does not prohibit. It makes no such prohibition."
"Very..."
"Absolutely makes no such prohibition."
"Very good. That's important to understand the legislative intent. I thank you very much."
"Representative Ropp."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Question of the Sponsor, please?"
"Yes, of course."
"Representative, does this mean that the equipment physically must follow either the school, or the student or is it possible, under this provision, for students to go to the, let's say, place of business and use that equipment to which that private entity would have received some funds for the rental of the equipment?" 27 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Well, the Bill is not... it doesn't exactly address in the Bill, but I suspect that it could do either."
"Okay."
"There's no prohibition. Either would be appropriate."
"Alrighty. And so, in fact, according to our analysis, it said, and I'd like for you just to re-explain it just briefly, that it does or does not exclude private schools from this particular program."
"That's right."
"Well, I said, does or does not. I used two..."
"It does not."
"Does not. Okay, very good. Thank you."
"Yes, it does not."
"Representative Satterthwaite."
"... Yield for a question?"
"Yes, he will."
"Yes."
"Representative Greiman, these funds that were made available through appropriations last year are bond monies. Is that correct? Bond monies?"
"Yes, that's correct."
"Isn't it true that bond monies have traditionally been used for things of lasting quality, such as equipment or construction?"
"Well, I think the answer to that is that... that's generally been a philosophy of government, but Build Illinois changed a whole lot of things. It made some... some philosophic changes. So, I suspect that while generally that's true - we generally use bonding funds for bricks and mortar. I think that Build Illinois has certainly made some changes in that and possibly for the better. I think that this General Assembly has spoken on that philosophic direction." 28 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Well, May 22, 1986 but, equipment I see as something that might qualify for funding under a bond program, but your Bill introduces instructional materials as part of what would be available with these bond monies. And that's a point where I think that I would depart from the rationale of using bond monies, because instructional materials are not things that are considered to be long lasting and we would, in fact, be using bonded indebtedness, obligation for future taxpayers, to pay for materials that would be very fleeting. And I think that that is the wrong way for us to be going when we are talking about bonded indebtedness that future taxpayers will have to pay for."
"Well, I like to assume, since you asked the question, that... that most of the equip... most of it will go for equipment. most of it will go for the kind of things that you wanted for bond... that we use bonded indebtedness for, so that the fact that we're adding to that equipment instructional materials merely means that we can use the equipment in a sensible way. You know, in a district next to mine, they built a community college and they had all the funds set aside. It's the most beautiful community college, but they neglected to provide for any furniture in that particular college. So that this General Assembly had to come, in a moment of crisis and hysteria, provide some furniture because they had forgotten it. Now, the junior college... community college wasn't worth a hell of a lot without furniture. And I think that's true of the equipment. Unless we have some instructional materials to go with a microscope, to go with a computer, to go with the kind of things that we intend to fund this, what's it for? What's it all about, Helen?"
"Is it your intent then that the instructional materials that you're talking about in your Bill would be 29 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 limited to instructional materials relating to the use of equipment that was funded under the Eill? Part of the problem is instructional material is not qualified in your Bill as being something related to the capital expenditures for equipment."
"I don't know that the Bill makes that prohibition, but my guess would be that's generally what it would be. It would be textbooks that would go along with the kind of... with... integrated into the program of equipment."
"You know, I think I could accept that you may need an instructional manual to go along with a piece of computer hardware, for instance, but the language of the Bill really does not limit it in any way to these instructional materials being related to the equipment. And that's where I have a problem with the Bill."
"Further discussion? Representative Hoffman."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Question of the Sponsor. Is it safe to say that your intent is to deal with what would be classified as durable instructional materials, as opposed to nondurable?"
"I think that's correct."
"Alright. I think then from an intent point of view that this clarifies the issue brought up by the previous speaker. We're talking about durable goods, as opposed to nondurable goods. I think on that basis, if that's the intent of the Sponsor, I think that clarifies... should clarify the intent for the rest of the folks on the floor."
"Thank you."
"Representative Greiman, to close."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm advised, firstly, that with respect to the parts of the Bill which affect public and nonpublic, it is my understanding from the staff, that the Catholic Conference of Illinois has no objection to 30 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 this Bill, for those people who are interested in that aspect of it. The Bill deals with getting vocational aid dollars into doing the job that we perceived them to do. Last year, we decided that... this General Assembly had determined that our school system had a mission in developing young people's talents in vocational education. We provided an ambitious program, but nobody took... nobody was able to get any funds out of that ambitious program. This Bill will open that spigot to allow young people to get funds and get the kind of equipment they need in science and math in voc. ed. It is... It makes no great systemic change from last year's decision on this issue, and it ought to be passed. And I thank you and solicit your vote."
"The Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 3089. The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3089 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye'. opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Bill there are 95 'aye.... Zeke Giorgi 'aye'. On this Bill there are 96 'ayes', 18 'nos', none voting 'present'. House Bill 3089, having received a Constitutional Hajority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3182. Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3182, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Lady from DuPage, Representative Cowlishaw."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3182 is a cleanup as a result of an inadvertent omission in the education reform package that we enacted approximately one year ago. In that package we provided for staff development programs for local school districts. We overlooked the fact that most of the vocational and special education teachers in the state do 31 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 not work for a school district, but rather for a regional or cooperative. Consequently, what this Bill does is to include vocational and special education teachers in those staff development programs. I move for its adoption."
"The Lady moves for the passage of House Bill 3182. Is there any discussion? There being none, the question is. 'Shall House Bill 3182 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this Bill there are 113 'ayes', no 'nays', 1 voting 'present'. And House Bill 3182, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3200. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3200, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Gentleman from McLean. Representative Ropp."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. For many of you, as I'm sure you all know, agriculture is one of our most basic industries in the State of Illinois. Tragically enough, it is going through some rocky times. A number of young people, both boys and girls, are choosing other vocations because of the economic situation that we find ourselves in that particular profession. A number of people have made up a group called the Illinois Leadership Council for Agriculture Education and have expressed strong concerns that we need to update, modernize and actually enforce a stronger vocational agricultural program in the State of Illinois, all the way from early youth to adulthood. This particular group is strongly recommending that we establish a particular program in our statute through the Board of Education that would establish an individual whose primary responsibility would be to implement programs that they so desire dealing with 32 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 agriculture education and the improvement and modifying it thereof. It also establishes that one of those individuals would be strongly involved with the FFA program and other associations that they are associated with. This Bill, also sets up a 13 member Board or a Council that would actually be a tenured Board, serving three years to a term, appointed by the Governor, which would make recommendations to the State Board of Education. To those schools that would choose to have agriculture, the recommendations from the State Board would have to be implemented. It is not mandating that every school in the State of Illinois have an agricultural program. But, through this Board and the recommendations thereof, the strong enforcement and the updating of this particular important industry, not only with agriculture, but agribusiness, would be strongly enforced. Ladies and Gentlemen, I urge your support of this particular provision, allowing for a greater emphasis being placed on agriculture education in our state. I'd be happy to answer any questions, and I welcome your support of this particular Bill, House Bill 3200."
"Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 3200. Is there any discussion? Being none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 3200 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Bill there are 113 'ayes', 1 'no', 1 voting 'present'. House Bill 3200, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3422. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3422, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Gentleman from Sangamon, Representative Curran."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 33 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day House. House 3ill 3422 as amended will give May 22, 1986 local school boards an additional option to use when it comes to life, safety and energy bond funds. These are bonds that the school board can use without voter approval. The origin of this author... authority for local school boards was the tragedy of Our Lady of Angels School in Chicago about 25 years ago. These bonds were originally for fire safety, but their use has since been expanded to include life, safety and energy. With this Bill, local school board, as long as it has the approval of the Regional Superintendent of Schools and the State Board of Education, can use the money it would have used to improve one building and use it instead to make additions to another building or buildings, plural, or to use or to purchase or to rent temporary classrooms. This Bill is permissive, not mandatory. The only mandate is that the requirement is by exercising this option of the... using life, safety and energy bonds, in a slightly different way, the school board has to do so for less money. Therefore, what this... essentially this Bill does is allow school boards greater flexibility, but they have to spend less money when they do so. It has a sunset date of January 1, 1988 and a provision that this option can be used only once per district. I ask for your vote."
"The Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 3422. And on that, Representative Cowlishaw."
"Will the Sponsor yield?"
"Yes."
"Just one question if I may, please. The Amendment that was adopted to this Bill..."
"Yesterday."
"Did that Amendment, in fact, I understand what the Amendment did - did it remove from the Bill those provisions that were in the Bill when it was heard before 34 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the Education Committee?"
"Yes, it did, Representative. And those provisions I recall that were not particularly favorable to you. Yes, it did remove those provisions."
"Dear me. You removed them just because I objected? Thank you very much."
"Representative Ropp."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield? Representative, can you give us a rough estimate as to what this might cost?"
"The State Board of Education believes the Amendment will cost nothing."
"Well, that's cheap enough. Thank you."
"The exact quote is, 'The State Board of Education believes that this Amendment will not have a cost impact upon the state.'"
"Very good. Thank you."
"Representative Curran, to close."
"I ask a favorable Roll Call."
"The Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 3422. The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3422 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Bill there are 100 'ayes', 14 'nos', none voting 'present', and House Bill 3422, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3550. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3550, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the Illinois Summer School for the Arts. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Matijevich."
"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. 35 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Hay 22, 1986 House Bill 3550 would create an Illinois Summer School for the Arts. The Bill passed favorably from the Elementary and Secondary Education Committee by a 16 to nothing vote. The Bill would establish a four to five week summer school to nourish the creativity of Illinois youth who possess outstanding talent in various arts areas. It is estimated... or anticipatd that enrollment would be between 300 to 400 students. Students who distinguish themselves in dance, theater, visual arts, music, literature and media arts will be eligible for the school. Artistically talented students who have completed the ninth, tenth or eleventh grades from the state will be selected from a talent search and provided a scholarship to cover the school tuition plus room and board. The school would be funded by a state appropriate, private contributions and the endowments. A state operated institution, probably a state university or a community college located centrally and easily available by transportation systems would host the summer school. The school would be unlike the instruction typically available in local schools. The students would benefit by the instruction of outstanding teachers and professional artists. It would provide opportunities to test new approaches in teaching of the arts and serve as a model for school programming which can be carried out in the community schools statewide. When we enrich our culture, we enrich the quality of life and that enhances our economic vitality. Just as academically talented students benefit society so, too, do students who possess artistic talent. I would appreciate if you would support this program that has so much of a challenge and will provide such opportunities for students in Illinois. Appreciate your support."
"The Gentleman moves for the passage of House 36 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Bill 3550. And on that, the Lady from DuPage, Representative Cowlishaw."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to congratulate the Sponsor for his proposal which recognizes something that we all perfectly well know and that is that the arts are an essential part of our culture; that, in fact, that is an element of our culture that has been neglected somewhat of late. It also recognizes something that I believe to be particularly important and that is that right now there are in existence a good many summer programs which gifted young people can attend, but they are all very expensive. The National Music Camp at Interlocken, Michigan, for example. I understand the tuition there for one summer is now somewhere around 2500 dollars. Now, the average family can't afford that. This program would be provided for the students who are gifted and it would have nothing whatever to do with whether they can afford a really quality program which is what we have in mind here. This is an excellent idea. It helps, I think, to balance some of our other programs for math and science and fields of that kind. I urge its support, and thank you very much."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Didrickson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members of the House. I, too, wish to lend my support to this wonderful summer school arts program. Illinois is increasingly becoming a state with regards to economic development that attracts professionals from the arts, in specific, becoming a key factor in the film industry. What we are doing for our young people that many of our local schools cannot provide is a summer school program where they will be able to expand their talents and then go back to their local schools and share those experiences they have had. It is not a residential setting. It is a summer school program, 37 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 and I think the very fine point of this is that they are very aggressively going out to get commitments from the private sector for the funding. I also urge your adoption."
"Representative Matijevich, to close."
"Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen, I appreciate those comments and ask for your favorable support."
"The Gentleman moves for passage of House Bill 3550. Question is, *Shall House Bill 3550 pass? All those in favor signify by voting aye, opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Representative Bowman, to explain your vote."
"The reason I'm voting 'present on this fine piece of legislation is simply that until we get a better handle on the programs for gifted and talented students, I think it is a premature expansion. We have seen not only this proposal, but a proposal for agricultural residential programs. for foreign language academies. We have the new Math-Science Academy. We have the gifted... regular gifted programs, and we do not have yet a coherent policy towards gifted and talented pupils. And I think that should be our next priority as a Legislature. Until we get such a policy, I'm going to be... I will not be supporting any further expansion of gifted programs."
"Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Bill there are 107 'ayes', 5 'nos', 3 voting 'present'. House Bill 3550, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3619. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3619, a Bill for an Act to amend the General Obligation Bond Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Saline, Representative Phelps." 38 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
May 22, 1986 "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3619 amends the General Obligation Bond Act for 60 million dollars. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, last year the school reform Bill, I think we all recognize, had some oversights, one very serious one. There were not a whole lot of incentives when we were talking about consolidation, reorganization of school districts. This Bill would provide not only incentives and some capital assistance, for those reorganization plans that are now being planned to go before the people by referendum this fall or next spring, now they will have a chance, if the decision is made to reorganize and consolidate districts, they now would have some money for capital assistance either for new buildings, and this would also go for those who chose not to consolidate, but need to have some repairs... rehabilitate the old buildings. And SO, for that, I believe this is a great cause and I appreciate support for those who see the school programs throughout the state. This does not designate a particular amount for any place in the state. It just merely puts money available in a program that hopefully will grow and meet the needs according to the demands. I appreciate your support."
"Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 3619. And on that, the Gentleman from Lake, Representative Churchill."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"
"He will."
"Representative, can you tell me what the impact on the state's debt would be if this Cill were passed?"
"Yes. Yes, Representative, 60 million is the right up front amount, but of course, we have the debt of...by the interest and so forth would be 107 million according to the 39 STATE OF ILLINGIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 fiscal note that was filed and I have in my hand."
"Okay, fine. And so, what you're basically doing is authorizing the State of Illinois to go back into the bond market and increase its bonding by 60 million dollars, but that has a potential general obligation debt of 107 million dollars."
"Yes, Sir, that's right."
"Okay. г. Speaker, to the Bill. I rise in opposition to this Bill. I don't think that this is the of time the year or the year that we should be increasing the debt and obligation of the State of Illinois. This has a tremendous impact of 60 million dollars with a potential general liablity of 107 million dollars. Every time that we go ahead and authorize more bonding, we weaken the state's ability to go into the marketplace and borrow. And I think that's exactly what this Bill would do. And I'd rise in opposition and ask people to vote "no" on this Bill."
"Lady from DuPage, Representative Cowlishaw."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. 1 understand the problem that the Sponsor is attempting to address. There are some small school districts in his area that would like to consolidate, and, of course, we all like to encourage that. None of these districts, however, has a high school that is in good enough condition or of sufficient size to serve the students that would be needed to be served if this consolidation were to occur. Therefore, the Sponsor looks to some help from the State of Illinois for bonding authority for school construction. My question, which has been, I think, a very serious question for all of us throughout the time that this Bill has been in existence, is that this Bill calls for a 60 million dollar figure. 40 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Now, I know what it has cost to build some pretty nice high schools in Illinois and 60 million dollars, I have to ask if whether, in fact, what they intend to build is the Taj Mahal."
"Gentleman from Lake, Representative Peterson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield... question?"
"He will."
"Representative, Metropolis is in Massac County, is that correct?"
"Would you repeat the question, Sir?"
"The City of Metropolis is in Massac County, is that correct?"
"Yes, Representative."
"And didn't they build a new high school not too long ago and consolidated some districts and built a new high school?"
"I believe that... that county did, yes."
"How many high school students outside of the Metropolis Unit District are there in Massac County?"
"I'm not sure."
"And 60 million dollars would be to build one high school, several schools? Exactly what did you have in mind?"
"No, I think there's a misunderstanding here and possibly I didn't explain it well enough. The 60 million is for statewide concerns that might come before the State Board of Education or the General Assembly for assistance. If they would reorganize through the referendum of the people and decide to consolidate, then it would be money for wherever. I have nothing designated, nor do I know there's going to be an approval for consolidation in any of these referendums throughout the State, let alone in my own 41 121st Legislative Day district. STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Metropolis (sic eleven that I represent. May 22, 1986 Massac) is just one county of So, I have no idea what will be approved for assistance legislation." even if this was approved
"Well, I... to the Bill, Mr. Speaker."
"Proceed."
"I think that we really have a request for 60 million dollars in obligation bonds. We don't know where the money's going to go. We don't even know if it's going to go down to those districts. We don't know what districts are going to consolidate. I think we should vote this particular Bill down, wait to see what kind of initiatives go on it at the local level. And if the funding is needed, we can always come back in the fall or the Veto Session and pass funding for those districts that consolidate and need the money for new facilities. Thank you."
"Representative Homer." "Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen. I rise to support the Gentleman's bill, and I think that all the Members should be aware that it actually contains two provisions. One of them has to do with the 50,000,000 dollar authorization for construction or renovation of buildings in newly consolidated school districts. And it's also important to point out that that money is to serve as a match, not as a total subsidization for the building program. The match, by the locals, would range from 30 percent to 70 percent of the state grant depending upon the EAV of the district. In addition, the Bill also has 10,000,000 dollars for school districts that do not consolidate that also need renovation, add-ons, remodeling or new construction. So, it really... it really is something that is applicable statewide to schools and all... a variety of situations. It very well compliments 42 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 that portion of Senate Bill 730, as later amended, urging and promoting, encouraging consolidation of the smaller, inefficient school districts around the state. I applaud the efforts of the Sponsor of the Bill. I think it is something that's not only affordable, but something that will save the taxpayers of Illinois money for generations to come, in more efficient schools and furthering the purposes of consolidation to avoid waste and inefficiency. And I would hope that we would overwhelmingly support this Bill."
"The Gentleman from Saline to close, Representative Phelps."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The General Assembly in its wisdom in 1973 approved the School Construction Bond Act to assist school districts for capital construction and rehabilitation projects. This merely is important that we look at reactivating this type of assistance - capital projects for schools, because we cannot surely claim to have school reform, in sincerity, unless we provide the quality buildings that would have to go along with those people who decide to consolidate it, whether it be a county unit or otherwise. And for that, I plea for your help, because this is not targeting a particular area. It's not just for school reorganization or consolidation. It's also for improvement of buildings. I urge your support."
"The Gentleman moves for passage of House Bill 3619. The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3619 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Representative Phelps, to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to reemphasize, in case there's a misunderstanding, this does not designate, 43 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 target one particular area in the state. This will be a fund that hopefully will grow or dwindle, depending on what feedback or reaction we have from school districts that may vote to reorganize or not. And if they do not, if we have a reaction throughout the state that they do not want to consolidate because of various referendums that will go on, then this money will not be needed other than for repairs that will be appealed to the State Board of Education. Surely, we can come to the rescue of our students throughout this state when they... the people of that district will say, 'Well, yes, we can consolidate and hopefully improve the quality of education." Please reconsider your vote. This is very important for the children of the state."
"Representative Rea."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. I would like to point out that in some areas of the state, that there is an urgency to have this type of provision, because there are some schools that are ready and needing the type of assistance that this would provide for. And if we can move it during this Legislative Session, the timing would be excellent to assist those throughout the State of Illinois. I would like to see more green votes up there - 71 - to make that available throughout the State of Illinois. And any... I think it's a good Bill. I think it's needed, and it's one that we should certainly get behind and support."
"Representative McCracken, one minute to explain your vote."
"Mr. Speaker, parliamentary inquiry. Does this take 71 votes to pass?"
"Yes, it does."
"And if it appears to get the requisite number, I'm asking for a verification." 44 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986
"Fine. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this Bill, there are 69 'ayes', 46 'nos'. The Gentleman has asked for a Poll of the Absentees. Mr. Clerk."
"There are no Members who are not voting."
"Representative Breslin, for what reason do you rise?"
"Mr. Speaker, how am I recorded?"
"The Lady is recorded as voting 'aye'."
"Thank you."
"On this Bill, there are 69 'ayes', 46 'nos', 1 voting 'present'. And the Gentleman asked for Postponed Consideration. The Bill will be placed on Postponed. Representative Greiman in the Chair."
"Page four of the Calendar, Special Order - Mr. Clerk, read Transportation, appears House Bill 3261. the Bill."
"House Bill 3261, a Bill for an Act in relationship to mass transit. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Madison, Mr. McPike."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is the RTA vehicle Bill that Representative Davis and I have sponsored, I believe, four years in a row. It's a vehicle and we will have a Conference Committee, and at this point, we've had no meetings and perhaps there will be no Bill this year. But we are providing it for that purpose and nothing else, as a vehicle Bill. So, I would ask for your support to put it in the Senate."
"The Gentleman from Madison, Mr. McPike, moves for the passage of House Bill 3261. And on that, the Gentleman from DeWitt, Mr. Vinson."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Would the Gentleman yield for a question?" 45 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Indicates he will."
May 22, 1986 "Representative, you stated that this was the traditional RTA vehicle Bill, and it's my understanding that this would only be used for agreed reforms of the process or cleanups."
"That's correct."
"Thank you, Mr. KcPike. And Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would urge that the Legislature do adopt... do pass this Bill. It may be necessary to make technical cleanups or reforms and this process has worked very wel1 for several years now. The Gentleman is to be commended on it, and we should pass it."
"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting'aye', those opposed vote 'nay'. Voting is now open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 107 voting 'aye, 2 voting 'no". Mulcahey votes 'aye'. On this Bill, there are 108 voting'aye", 2 voting "no", 3 voting 'present. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Transportation, Reading, Special Order appears House Bill 3574. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3574, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Intergovernmental Cooperation Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Lady from Lake, Miss Stern."
"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this is a Bill that we amended yesterday. It simply permits municipalities, townships and counties, in any combination, to establish an intergovernmental highway transportation district upon approval by an ordinance within each, and that district will be able to plan and put together solutions hopefully 46 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL AS SENBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 for traffic, highway and design and coordination problems that they have in common. I ask your 'aye vote."
"The Lady from Lake moves that the... moves for the passage of House Bill 3574. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Knox, Hr. Hawkinson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"
"Indicates she will."
"Representative, prior to the Amendment, it was my understanding that bonds could only be issued by referendum. Has that in any way been changed?"
"The bonds have been... The bond... bonding power has been removed altogether, Representative."
"Alright. Thank you."
"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 113 voting 'aye'... 114 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Second Reading, Transportation - Special Order, appears 3189. Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3189, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Vehicle Code. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendments #1 and 2 were adopted in Committee."
"Any Motions with respect to Amendment 1 and 2?"
"No Motions filed."
"Yes, Mr. Giorgi."
"Mr. Speaker, I request leave of the House to place this Bill, House Bill 3189, on the Interim Study Committee." 47 121st Legislative Day
STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 "The Gentleman asks leave of the House to place House Bill 3189 on the Interim Study Calendar of the Committee on Transportation. The Gentleman has leave. You have leave, Mr. Giorgi."
"I beg your pardon. Sir? What was that? Would you repeat... for my delicate ears?"
"You have leave."
"Thank you."
"Yes. Page four of the Calendar on the Order of Third Reading, Local Administration - Special Order, appears House Bill 3025. Mr. Clerk. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3025, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Public Library District Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Lady from Cook, Miss Wojcik."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this Bill has come to me due to the fact that Schaumburg Township and the Schaumburg Township Library no longer wish to remain together. And as... the fact that Schaumburg Township is the corporate authority, they are now going to give the township library, by Resolution, the right to converse to a local library into a public library district. I move for its favorable passage."
"The Lady from Cook, Miss Wojcik, moves for the passage of House Bill 3025. Is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. This is final action. The Lady from Cook, Miss Flowers. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 111 voting 'aye', none voting... Mr. Ryder. Alright. There are 111 voting 'aye', none voting "no", 2 48 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL AS SEMALY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 voting *present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. The Gentleman from Horgan, Mr. Ryder, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"
"Mr. Speaker, thank... Thank you. I have the pleasure to be accompanied today by Charles Schone. Mr. Schone is the President of the Illinois FFA. I am joined in a Resolution by Representative Hartke and Representative Slater, who also had those positions to honor Mr. Schone. He is here in preparation for their annual convention, which will be held in a couple of weeks hence. It's my pleasure to introduce to the House, Charles Schone, President of the Illinois FFA."
"Thank you very much."
"Thank you. Nice having you with us. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading Local Administration Special Order, appears House Bill 3072. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3072, a Bill for an Act to legalize and validate appropriation Bills and tax levy ordinances of certain counties and forest preserve districts. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Berrios."
"This is the Cook County validating Bill that He keep bringing up in this Session. The reason we do this in Cook County is because of the fact that this validates all the small things that the county does. And DuPage County's Forest Preserve District this year, for the first time, is also coming in with one of these. So, let's vote for it and get it out of here."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Berrios, moves for the passage of House Bill 3072. And on that, is there any discussion? The Lady from Cook, Miss Pullen." 49 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Pullen: "Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder Gentleman will yield to a few questions." May 22, 1986 whether the
"Indicates he will."
"You said something about DuPage County. I wonder whether you could clarify that. DuPage County is not in this Bill, is it?"
"There's another Bill."
"But it's not in this Bill, is it?"
"No."
"So this Bill affects only Cook County, is that right?"
"Correct."
"It affects the Cook County Board and the Cook County Forest Preserve District."
"Yes."
"And this Bill validates appropriation and tax levy ordinances that are... were adopted by the them for what fiscal year?"
"'84."
"From 1984. What was wrong with the Cook County appropriations and tax levy ordinance in 1984 that it would need to be validated?"
"Nothing. Just that it would... if they... from what I've been told... that if they... the reason they do this, is because of the fact that there are so many small levies that, you know, it would end up in volume and this is a easier way to do it."
"I heard you say small and I didn't hear the word after that. Small what?"
"Small levies. Small levies."
"Small levies of the Cook County Board?"
"Appropriation. Small appropriations."
"You mean like line items?"
"Yes." 50 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
May 22, 1986 "Doesn't state law require the Cook County Board to set forth its appropriations and line items just as we do in our appropriations?"
"I have no idea. That's..."
"What is the effect of validating these ordinances?"
"State law does require it."
"Okay. State law does require that. So, if they're doing that, then there wouldn't be any reason to validate what they're doing. What is the effect of validating the ordinances?"
"It just makes legal the way they set up the budget."
"It makes what?"
"It doesn't approve the budget."
"It makes it legal? Makes the way they set up the budget legal?"
"Okay. If they line itemed every pill or whatever at Cook County Hospital.... it'd be a 20 volume budget."
"Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak to the Bill please."
"Proceed, Ma'am."
"Thank you. What the Gentleman is indicating to us, Ladies and Gentlemen, is that it is... that there is something about the Cook County Board and Cook County Forest Preserve District appropriations and tax levy ordinances that makes them need to have a validation after the fact, which in essence says, despite the defects and flaws in these ordinances, the Legislature approves them anyway, after the fact. And the legal effect of this is to cancel any property tax protests that have been made on a basis of the defects in the appropriations and tax levy ordinances. Now, the Gentleman is correct that state law requires Cook County and every other county, and the Cook County Forest Preserve District and every other forest preserve district, to line item their appropriations and 51 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 tax levy ordinances, just as we line item the appropriations for State Government. But there isn't anybody who can validate our refusal to line item appropriations. Cook County comes to this Legislature and says, "We're something special. We should not have to put up with people protesting their property taxes. We should not have to put up with following state law that every other county has to follow in this state. You should come through after the fact and approve what we have done even though we've done it wrong and against the law." It's true that this is brought in every year, and each year' another invalid Cook County tax levy ordinance is added to validate these acts of the Cook County Board. But the fact that every year we do this, and some years we haven't managed to, does not make it right. I urge the defeat of this Bill, yet again. Thank you."
"Further discussion? There being none, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Berrios, to close."
"I ask for favorable a Roll Call."
"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 61 voting 'aye', 53 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"
"Seek a verification."
"The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken, asks for a verification. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Berrios, asks for a Poll of the Absentees."
"Poll of the Absentees. Capparelli."
"Mr. Capparelli votes 'aye'. Yes, Mr. Clerk..." 52 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Yes. Mr. McCracken withdraws the request for a verification. Accordingly, there are 62 voting 'aye', 53 voting 'no', I voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading Local Administration - Special Order, appears House Bill 3109. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3109, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Township Law. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Giglio."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3109 is a Bill that township officials of Illinois asked me to sponsor. What it does, it increases the ceiling for the townships authority to levy a tax for the general assistance program only from .10 percent of value of assessed evaluation on your property to .20. And the increase can only take place after 10 percent of the people, who are registered voters in the township, signs a petition and an annual town meeting is called. So, it's not something that can be snuck through or take place without a number... sufficient number of people to know what's going on. Many of the townships have exhausted their money for these people that need general assistance and with the unemployment situation, in many township, we need this Bill. So, I'd ask for your favorable support."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Giglio, moves for the passage of House Bill 3109. And on that, the Gentleman from Knox, Mr. McMaster."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"Indicates he'll yield for questions."
"You know, Frank, I think I have usually supported all requests of the township officials. Could you tell me what the effect of this legislation would be? Isn't it true 53 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 that at the present time, if the township exceeds the money they raise by their 10 cent levy, then the state takes over the cost of general assistance in that township, if requested?"
"I believe that's true, Representative. What we're trying to do is keep it at the local level and that's where we're at, Tom."
"Would then, if the township exceeded 20... the 20 cents, would the state take over then?"
"Truthfully, that I don't know. The Bill... The Bill only goes from 10 to 20."
"I know what it does, Frank. And I think this is not the first time we have considered legislation such as this. I guess what concerns me, the effect of... it would have the effect of doubling the amount of money that the local taxpayers within that township would be providing for general assistance. And I just cannot understand why reasonable people want to double the amount of cost to their local taxpayers, when, in effect, the state could take over that difference above 10 percent. I find it difficult to support and difficult to understand something such as this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Piel."
"Thank you... Excuse me, I'm sorry, Mr. Speaker. I'm going through the change of voice there. Will the Gentleman yield, please?"
"Indicates he'll yield for questions."
"Frank, we went through this about a year ago where there were problems as far as the low numbers of people turning out lots of times at the town meetings. What does the Bill have in it basically to... to sort of safeguard for the taxpayers as far as, let's say, if only 10 - 15 people showed up at a town meeting?" 54 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Well, the requirement is 10 percent May 22, 1986 of the total So, in our registered voters have to sign the petition. township, that's well over 14,000 signatures that would have to be collected before the town meeting is even called."
"So, in other words, it can be brought by a town meeting only when 10 percent of the total registered voters in that township authorize this type of a thing to be brought up."
"Right."
"Fine. Thank you very much."
"The Lady from LaSalle, Miss Breslin."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"
"Indicates he will."
"Representative Giglio, I have a letter here from George Miller, the Executive Director of the Township Officials of Illinois. In the second paragraph, he specifically says, that... and I quote, 'This legislation provides for an increase in the township's general assistance tax rate, if approved by the electors in a front door referendum.' From what you have stated, I believe that Mr. Miller's statement in this letter is incorrect. Is that true? There is no front door referendum required in your proposal. Is that true?"
"No, it's... I believe that... that would be incorrect. Dave... Dave Regner is the one that I've been working with and maybe it's just a miscommunication."
"Thank you."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Flinn. Yes, Mr.... The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Flinn, moves the previous question be put. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The previous question is put. 55 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Giglio, to close."
"I would just ask for your favorable support."
"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. This is final action. The Lady from Cook, Miss Parcells, to explain her vote, one minute."
"Thank you, Mr. Chairman (sic - Mr. Speaker). As a previous township supervisor, I know the horrors of being a receiving unit, but I think this is an inappropriate way to get that rate raised from 10 to 20 because I think it should be a front door referendum. Those town meetings are very sparsely attended, and if you need the... 14,000 signatures, it would be just as easy to put this up to referendum and let all of the township vote at the next referendum. Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Peterson, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to point out that a township doesn't necessarily have to raise its tax the full 10 cents. It could raise it two - three, whatever it feels it needs. And I think that the standard of need that Public Aid uses is lower than what townships are giving in grants to people in our area. If people read the Chicago papers, they'd know that people are going from Rogers Park into Evanston for general assistance because that township had a better grant for people who qualified and most townships do. And I think this is a good piece of legislation. Ten percent of the people have to sign the petition. In most of the townships around the Chicago area, that means thousands of people. It has to be published in the paper, and I think it's a good Bill. I urge your support. Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Fulton, one minute to 56 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 explain your vote, Mr. Homer."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen. In explanation of my 'no' vote, I think a lot of Members had a misunderstanding of the terminology 'front door referendum'. Certainly, the requirement here is for a requisite number of voters in the district to sign a petition, but instead of putting the matter on a ballot at a general election or a special election, which is what we normally think of for a referendum, the matter would be voted on at the town meeting. In the townships that I'm accustomed with, the notice goes out in the paper informing everyone that there will be a town meeting on such a such a date, at such and such a place, at such time. Very few people ever attend that town meeting. And as a consequence, the practical effect is, is that there is really no safeguard in the traditional sense of a front door referendum that we normally consider. And if it were a true front door referendum, I would support the Bill. I think it perhaps may be needed, but I cannot support it under the town meeting concept."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Stephens, one minute to explain your vote."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, first of all, I wish we would've had more debate on the issue. I did have some questions of the Sponsor. But that notwithstanding, I think that we are beginning to change the meaning of the front door referendum, and I object to the fact that only 10 percent, no matter how many thousands of people we're talking about signing that petition, it's still only one out of ten. And the points are well taken that in most districts, even if you had 15,000 people show up for a meeting, there's no one... if nowhere that they could meet. And I think that... we're going to talk about raising taxes, they 57 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 should be raised by people voting directly to raise those taxes. And so, I stand in opposition."
"The Gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. DeJaegher, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Chairman (sic Ar. Speaker). I think what the problem is, when we're talking about tax rates, what this basically does, it's permissive to take it from 10 to 20. There is no reason that any township supervisor would ask for a rate of 20, when 20 is not necessary. Township government is a proud unit of government. Most people that serve in township government are individuals that basically like to take care of their own problems. They don't want to become a receiver of the state. They want to address their problems in their own particular manner. Many of you people say that people will not turn out for a town meeting. You are wrong for this particular reason. If people know what the issues are and this is going to affect their pocketbook, they will turn out. Case in point, just a few years ago, when my township, which was Hampton Township, wanted to implement the INRF. People knew that this was going to affect their tax structure. Over 300 people turned out at this particular town meeting. So, once people know that there is an interest, or if they're knowledgeable of how it's going to affect them, believe me they will turn out. And I think that township officials throughout the State of Illinois, knowing that they must run on their record, knowing that people are looking at their tax bill, and if that individual supervisor should ask for a levy that's unreasonable, of course that person would no longer stand for election. So, let those townships be receptive to taking care of their own particular needs. I think that you have to realize that there are places in the State of Illinois that no 53 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 longer can provide the need for the people at the present tax levy that's being imposed. Hopefully that you will consider township government. Hany of you came from the ranks of township officials and you hold the present position that you do. You know what township government is. Township government is receptive government. Township government should be retained, and for that particular reason, I ask you to vote green."
"The Gentleman from McLean, Mr. Ropp, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to briefly reiterate what the previous speaker said. I can assure you that at most town meetings there may not be a lot of people in attendance, but you talk about your pocketbook and you're going to have an outstanding attendance. The fact is you may even have more than when you put it up for a public election or a front door referendum. This is certainly a close-to-the-belt issue, a local governmental kind of a program, and I think you're going to find most kinds of efficiency in terms of interest, concern and desire and this is a good piece of legislation and ought to be supported."
"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question. there are 40 voting 'aye', 71 voting 'no', 1 voting *present', and the Bill fails. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Local Administration - Special Order, appears House Bill 3162. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3162, a Bill for an Act relating to municipalities. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Giorgi. Well... We'll just pass over that Bill and we'll come right back to it. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading - 59 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Local Administration, appears House Bill 3229. Mr. Clerk, would you read the Bill."
"House Bill 3229, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Bill, as most of you will remember, was amended the other day to put on a senior citizen increase in the homestead exemption. It increased it from 2,000 to 2,500, and there was a good bit of debate on that at the time. The underlying Bill applies only to Cook County and what it does there is that it puts the penalty on tax delinquent property back from 12 percent to 18 percent and keeps farmland at 12 percent. As you remember, when we dropped the level on farmland, we ended up dropping it all and this has affected the county's.... Cook County's ability to sell or to collect money so that they can fund local government. So, those are the two portions of the Bill that remain at this time. And I, again, want to emphasize the fact that people who... there was a great deal of debate on this, in terms of that senior citizen exemption, and be happy to answer any questions. I ask for a favorable Roll Call."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane, moves for the passage of House Bill 3229. And on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Shaw."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Representative Keane, what is the... what is the... you're raising the... the tax from 12 to 18 percent of the... Is that right?"
"That's correct. The tax had been... or not the tax. It's not a tax. It's the interest penalty on back... on property with back taxes due."
"What is the... What is the penalty now for residential property?" 60 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Twelve... Twelve percent. Twelve percent." May 22, 1986
"On all residential properties. So, what you..."
"On all property, farmland and improved. On everything."
"What...
"It's presently for the first pick up... it's 18, but this is for once the property is sold, the second and third and subsequent payments."
"Alright. So, it's 18 percent right now."
"Yes, at the start."
"Right. So... But..."
"This kicks the subsequent taxes up to 18 percent after the sale."
"Okay, and you're bringing the farmland in line with this..."
"Farmland always was a 12."
"But you're bringing that up by 18..."
"No. No, not the farmland."
"What's the reason for raising the penalty?"
"In the past, bankers and lawyers and invest... I shouldn't say bankers. I should just say people who are smart investors often times found it was a lot better not to pay their back taxes because they couldn't borrow money for 12 percent. And what happened is, is that when people did that, when it was a good business decision for them not to pay their back taxes, we... the taxing bodies in Cook County and in any county do not receive funds to run government. They have to go out on the bond market and then borrow that money and it costs a lot more money for them to get that kind of money in to run government. And we felt that this would encourage people to pay their back taxes."
"Okay, one other question. How does this penalty work? Does this... is this every six months?" 61 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 24th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986
"The first penalty is set up on... at 18 and then it's six months later, it's my understanding, it kicks in again at 18."
"Would you... Would you... I know you mumble that, Representative, but..."
"Well, no, I didn't try to mumble it. I agreed with you. It's six months and then it kicks in again at six months."
"Right. So, actually you would be paying 36 percent a year. Is that right?"
"Right. Right."
"Proceed, Mr. Shaw. You're still on."
"Yes, what affect would that have on the little old lady that owned a home who forgot to pay her taxes?"
"A little old lady that hasn't the money to pay her taxes can use another Bill that we had, and that is implemented by the Cook County Collector, which allows the little old lady to use the equity in her home to pay her taxes without penalty."
"To the Bill. The... I know Representative Keane have good intentions with this and... but I can see nothing but having an adverse effect on a lot of people, an awful lot of people in Cook County, especially senior citizens because from time to time they... some of these people don't live in Chicago and they don't get the notice of the taxes. And we have those speculators up there who have a paid staff of... working the County Treasurer's Office in the various County Assessor's Office and the Recorder of Deeds to pick up properties for delinquent taxes. And what you're talking about here, you're increasing the taxes from 12 percent to 36 percent by 1889 (sic - 1989), and this could do nothing but serve as a hardship on many of the people that we are trying to help. On one hand we're talking about senior citizens and on the other hand we're 62 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 virtually snatching their property right out from under them with this penalty."
"The Gentleman from Dewitt, Mr. Vinson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I was just getting information from staff. And in any event, I rise in support..."
"Can you control your staff, Mr. Vinson?"
"None of us do that, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of the Gentleman's Bill particularly because of the homestead exemption Amendment on the Bill. I think it is a vital Bill for the taxpayer, and I think it that occasionally in this institution we ought to give some consideration to the taxpayer, as well as to the units of government that use their taxes. I think we ought to pass this thing. I can't understand why any Member of the General Assembly would vote 'no' on this. I would urge an 'aye' vote."
"Lady from Champaign, Miss Satterthwaite."
"Will the Sponsor yield for a question? Representative Keane, the original Bill applied only to Cook County, is that right?"
"That's correct."
"But Amendment #2 applies statewide."
"That's correct."
"In Amendment #2, in order to qualify for the homestead exemption, is there any provision related to financial need or financial condition of the homesteader?"
"No."
"Is there any provision made for reimbursing local governmental units for the loss of tax dollars that would occur to them by the additional exemption?"
"No."
"Well, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, of course, it is always nice to give tax relief, but one of 63 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 the problems that we create for local taxing districts when we provide for tax relief without reimbursing local districts for their loss is that we put them in the bind of either having to raise their rate or otherwise provide for the lost revenue. In a time when we are having a great deal of difficulty in the local units of government because of the resentment of property taxes, it is not feasible for them to raise rates and, yet, the state comes in and denies them their revenue. It is a very difficult situation to put local governments in these days, particularly at a time when federal revenue sharing and other kinds of funds will not be available to them. And while it is certainly desirable to give some relief to taxpayers, we have to look at it from the angle of the local governmental units and their efforts to provide services as well. And so, I think we should weigh those two things very carefully before we decide how to vote."
"The Gentleman from Cole, Mr. Weaver. Mr. Weaver."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"Indicates he'll yield for questions."
"Representative, there's been so much movement with Amendments back forth on this, if you could clear up a little confusion. After January of 1989, will farmland be subject to the 18 percent?"
"It's my understanding that the present law sets it up that way. We have..."
"Is that... Is that a yes?"
"Yes, this Bill does not affect that. This Bill does not address that. This Bill leaves farmland exactly the way it is."
"At 12 percent?"
"Yes." 64 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Even after 1989." May 22, 1936
"No, it does not... The Bill... when we wrote the Bill, we did not get into the 12 percent farmland assessment. So, nothing in the present law, pertaining to farmland assessment, has been changed. It's exactly as it was before now. All this affected was nonfarmland in Cook County."
"Until 1989."
"My Bill did not... This Bill does not in any way address that. The sunset on farmland was in previous legislation, that was passed out of here last year. So, it is not in this Bill."
"So, irregardless, the farmland assessment is going to go up to 18 percent in 1989."
"Without... Yes. Without legislative action it will."
"Okay."
"It was brought down... we brought it down a couple of what... a year or two ago to help the farmers in their crisis, and we brought it down not permanently, but to a time certain when it would go back up, and we'll look at it again at that time."
"Are you aware of any position the Farm Bureau might have on this Bill the way it stands now as amended?"
"It doesn't affect them. It leaves the farmland exactly the way it was before this Bill came along. It doesn't affect farmland assessment."
"Okay. Thank you."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Flinn."
"Mr. Speaker, in the interest of moving right along, I move the previous question."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Flinn, moves the previous question be put. All in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have 65 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 it. The previous question will be put. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane to close."
"I ask for a favorable Roll Call."
"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. This is final action. The Gentleman from Fulton, Mr. Homer, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was trying to get an opportunity to ask the Sponsor questions to understand exactly what his Bill is doing. There's a lot of confusion about that. But, so, the Members are absolutely clear about the principle that's involved, I think that we need to shed some light on the situation that exists in our counties with regard to the tax buyers, and that's what we're talking about in this Bill. We're talking about people who show up at the annual tax sale, when the County Treasurer sells at public auction those taxes on properties that people have not been able to pay their taxes on. And the current law, and this Bill would strengthen the current law and send those rates to 18 percent, to the maximum penalty that those people can bid. You might say, 'What's wrong with 18 percent annual interest?' That is not an annual interest. This money, which does not go to the public bodies but goes in the pockets of these tax buyers... just to give you an example, one month after an individual would have purchased at 18 penalty points a property that had a tax of 1,000 dollars, his annualized return would be something like 216 percent profit, 216 percent annualized return. If he kept it for a year and it was redeemed, it would go to 54 percent annualized return. It's a small wonder that we're seeing more and more of these tax buyers show up at these tax sales to take 66 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 advantage of distraught property owners who have been unable to pay their property taxes because of unfortunate economic circumstances. And I would think that we would be very reluctant to put 'yes' votes on any Bill which would strengthen the tax buyers' position at those annual tax sales at the disadvantage of the poor, strapped property taxpayer who has been unable to pay his property taxes. I would urge 'no' votes on this Bill. And I would hope that we would drive these maximum penalties down to a reasonable level, where they were in 1981 of 12 percent before the interest rates went higher."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Daley, one minute to explain your vote. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Huff, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I couldn't agree with the previous speaker more. He's right on target. In Chicago, we call this process scavenger sales. I also like to think it absolutely locks out the hapless homeowner who's lost his house due to lack of property payments. I think we should... That's why the Sponsor mumbled the explanation as to the reason for this Bill. This is going to be a windfall for the scavenger sale buyer who buys these taxes. And if the property is redeemed, it's going to be redeemed at 18 percent, rather than 12 percent. I think this is a bad Bill, and I think we should back away from this Bill the way Dracula backs away from the crucifix."
"Mr. Churchill. one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, had my light on to ask questions of the Sponsor during the debate. Perhaps if the Sponsor could just nod his head, if he is somewhere to be found. Where is the Sponsor? I guess then I'll just 67 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 turn my attention to the Bill. This Bill... I believe it still has an Amendment on it that increases the homestead exemption for senior citizens by 500 dollars. What that does is it mandates to local units of government that they're going to have to lose dollars. I believe that that means that this Bill should be a State Mandates Act Bill, and in our Calendar then, we should've had some reference that this is a State Mandates Act Bill. And I think that from what I just read in the Illinois Municipal League Magazine that, the Speaker of the House talked about how he was trying to help the local units of government on state mandates, and yet, here is a Bill on our Calendar that should've been indicated as a State Mandates Act Bill, and it wasn't. And so, I don't think that we should support such a Bill until it's clearly marked on the Calendar."
"The Gentleman from Macon, Mr. Dunn, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Much, as I too would like to see the homestead exemption increased for senior citizens, the overwhelming consideration in this piece of legislation is the impact upon those who are property taxpayers in Cook County, and I have sympathy for them. If they run into a situation where they get behind in their tax payment and are a little bit late, as an earlier speaker indicated, they should not be forced to pay outrageous penalties to add to their misery to recover their house and then prevent the loss of their own home. So, we should turn this legislation down and consider homestead exemptions for senior citizens in a separate Bill or an Amendment to a different Bill, and I would urge an 'aye'... a 'no' vote on this Bill."
"The Lady from Cook, Miss Parcells, one minute to explain your vote." 68 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. May 22, 1986 I, too, wanted to ask a question. It seems to me that if we were trying to aid the farmer, that we would've just said farmland will be at 12 percent and all other will be at 18 percent, but we're just banging away at Cook County again here, and for that reason, I'm going to vote 'no'."
"The Gentleman from Will, Hr. Van Duyne, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to add my support to the comments made by Representative Homer and Representative Dunn, that rather than having a positive effect on the counties, I think that this Bill would really have a reverse effect. Alluding and reiterating what Representative Dunn has said, that you would create an era... an aura of dispair, rather than of help. If the people can't pay their taxes now and then can't pay the existing penalties put on them by the county, how in the world are they ever going to redeem their property with these esculating penalties? And I think it's a bad Bill. I, also, too, support the raising of the senior citizens homestead exemption, but I think this is a bad place to put that, and it really kind of clouds the whole issue. So, I just reiterate what Representative Dunn has said. I think we should address that separately, and I think this Bill should be defeated."
"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Аг. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 55... 55 voting 'aye", 45 voting 'no', 14 voting 'present', and the Bill fails. The Chair notes that it, in error, missed the previous Bill. So, on the Order of House Bills Third Reading Local Administration, appears House Clerk, read the Bill." Bill 3222. Clerk O'Brien: Мг. "House Bill 3222, a Bill for an Act in relation to 69 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 sales. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Kulas."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3222 would allow the local units of government to increase license fees for a certain special sales from 25 dollars to a maximum of 75 dollars. Amendment #2, also, at the request of the Secretary of State's Office would permit the Secretary of State for reciprocal... and a reciprocal agreement with the State of Missouri on supeona powers, and I would move for the passage of House Bill 3222."
"The Gentleman from Cook, moves for the passage of House Bill 3222. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Young."
"Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Would the Sponsor yield?"
"Indicates he will."
"Representative, does this Bill affect what is known in Chicago as peddlers' license for people who sell goods on street corners and such?"
"No, this will be only on special sales, such as salvage sales, going-out-of-business sales, insurance ordered sales, creditor sales, sales of damaged goods. Those kinds of..."
"Thank you."
"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. The voting is now open, and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 98 voting 'aye', 7 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading - Local 70 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Administration, appears House Bill 3290. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3290, a Bill for an Act concerning fines and costs issued in relation to various offenses and disbursements of such fines and cost levying. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Steczo."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. House Bill 3290 is the exact same Bill that this House passed last year as House Bill 1567. What this Bill does is tries to take care of some of the problems that are currently experienced by Clerks of the Circuit Court, when dealing with fine surcharges. This Bill deals with the Traffic and Criminal Convictions Surcharge Fund, the Violent Crime Victims Assistance Fund and the State Driver Education Fund, in one Section, that... to make it easier for the Circuit Court Clerk to try to determine where those assessments should go. Up to now, it has been very difficult for them to do so. Much of the money that could have been collected, they feel, has fallen through the cracks because of difficulties. It provides for no increase in fines. It just provides for a better method of allocation. In addition to that, the Bill also relates to drug related offenses and... the present law says that everytime a person is convicted of possession or delivery of cannibas or controlled substance the court must levy a fine equal to the street value of those narcotics involved. Twelve and one-half percent of the money is transferred to the Department of Alcoholism and Substance Abuse - Juvenile Drug Abuse Fund, and the remaining 87.5 percent is transferred to the various law enforcement agencies that partook. This Bill just simply allows the Judge to be able to, in their discretion, better allocate those monies. 71 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 This Bill passed the House last year by a vote of 110 to 2, and I would at this time, Mr. Speaker, move for passage of House Bill 3290."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Steczo, moves for the passage of House Bill 3290. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Livingston, Mr. Ewing."
"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the Sponsor of this Bill has gone the extra mile to work with me and others in arranging... helping arrange for the distribution of fine money. The provisions of this Bill have, I think, been approved by representatives of all areas of the state. We've tried to work it out SO that it's the best for our county governments, and I would certainly encourage a 'yes' vote on this Bill."
"The Lady from Cook, Miss Didrickson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield for a question, please?"
"Indicates he'll yield for questions."
"Terry, I see here in my analysis that it says it reduces the Driver Education Fund surcharge on traffic fines from five dollars to four dollars for each 40 dollars fined, and I'm just wondering what that does to the funding of the driver education program in our schools, presently."
"Representative Didrickson, when this Bill was first introduced, the Secretary of State's Office called me and asked me for the justification. Then they read the Bill more carefully and they said, "No, it's not a reduction. It's just a wash." And the whole Bill does not affect increases or decreases in rates. It just simply provides for the same amount of fine, but just differs the allocation to allow the Circuit Court Clerks better accounting."
"It will not harm the funding mechanism through this 72 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day for driver's May 22, 1986 education in our high schools?"
"No, it does not."
"Even though it reduces it by a dollar."
"It doesn't reduce the fine for drivers education. If you read the... If you read the Bill closely, it's an acception."
"As I said, I'm just reading these synopsis. That's why I wanted to understand more clearly. It said it reduced it a dollar, according to our analysis."
"The Secretary of State's Office, Representative, when they read the Bill, called me and said, "We were going to oppose it because we thought it reduced that charge by a dollar. It does not so we are supportive of the Bill.""
"So our analysis is incorrect then."
"That's correct."
"Thank you."
"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 114 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Local Administration - Special Call, appears House Bill 3431. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3431, a Bill for an Act to add Sections to an Act to revise the law in relation to county treasurers. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Flinn."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 3431 provides a stipend 73 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 for county treasurers in the amount of 3,500 dollars a year as a result of additional legislative mandates duties caused by Public Act 84-396, Public Act 84-235, Public Act 84-163 and Public Act 84-449. I... This puts them in the same category as a County Clerk, and I would ask for adoption of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair moves for the passage of House Bill 3431. And on that, is there any discussion? There... The Gentleman from McLean, Mr. Ropp."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"
"Indicates he will for questions."
"Representative, when this Body, a couple of years ago, made this same provision for county clerks, many counties did not move with the intention that the Legislature had intended. When, in fact, just reduced their contribution for those salaries in like amount. So that, in fact, the county clerks in a lot of areas did not make anymore. even though we statutorily said that our intent was that that was to be. Does this Bill adjust that situation SO that you can, in fact, guarantee treasurers to receive this stipend or has that been left out?"
"Yes, he will. The treasurer will indeed receive it, Sir."
"And that the county board cannot, in fact, reduce, by like amount, that contribution from the state, and so that the treasurer will not make anymore, or will the treasurer now make more?"
"No, this does not deal with whether or not the county board will reduce their pay or raise their pay. The county board has full authority within the limits of the state minimum and maximum of their salaries. It does not have anything to do with that. It doesn't prevent it or cause it." 74 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEDATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"The Gentleman from DeKalb, Mr. Countryman."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in opposition to this Bill. When I was on the State Board of Elections, the first one came through with these stipends, and I feel it's inappropriate and that the state has really no business subsidizing county treasurers. And with all due respect to the Sponsor, I stand in opposition."
"There being no further discussion the Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Flinn, to close."
"Well very simply, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the Bill addresses the Mandates Act in the sense that there are four Public Acts, which have created a special... extra special duties on the treasurers and all this is intended to do is to in some way, somehow compensate them for it, and I ask for the adoption of the Bill."
"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open, and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 82... 83 voting 'aye', 31 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Local Administration, appears House Bill 3480. Mr. Clerk, call the Bill."
"House Bill 3480, a Bill for an Act in relation to the transfer of various property rights by the state. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Lady from Cook, Miss Barnes."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3480 authorizes the Department of Transportation to convey certain access lands in Clark, 75 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Cook, and Cumberland Counties for consideration. I would ask for an 'aye' vote."
"The Lady from Cook moves for the passage of House Bill 3480. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed 'no'. In the opinion... This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 115 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Local Administration, appears House Bill 3512. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3512, a Bill for an Act to create and define the powers and duties of the Prairie Trail Authority. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Churchill."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House Bill 3512 creates what's called the Prairie Trail Authority. This is an authority for counties in the metropolitan area. The collar counties to be eligible to join an authority to create a system of pathways and bicycle trails within those boundaries of those member units."
"The Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Churchill, moves for the passage of House Bill 3512. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz."
"Question of the Sponsor."
"Indicates he'll yield for questions."
"This sets up a trail... happy trails group association, what is..."
"I think for those who will be on the trails, they will be very happy. You know, it's..." 76 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"On abandoned... On abandoned trails?"
"No, this would be..."
"A Prairie Trail Authority." May 22, 1986
"... trails that would be filled with bicyclers and walkers and joggers."
"Does this statewide?"
"No, this is in the collar county area."
"The collar county area only?"
"We would be happy to expand it beyond that, if we can get the trails together there." Leverenz: for "But you criticized the Lady from East St. Louis area something kind of parochial to her... you didn't do that. Churchill: Someone else did that." "I think it was."
"This would be the "Happy Trails Authority"." Churchill: Leverenz. "Let me explain this to you, Representative I think last year you had a Bill in that you wanted joggers to wear brightly colored clothes because you were afraid that if they were jogging along side a road that they might get hit. We have a better idea this year. What we're going to do is allow them to jog along, you know, pathways that'll be connected so that they don't have to be out on the highway and get killed. This is really something you should be supporting."
"Who would... How much money would this Authority then be allowed to spend or raise?"
"We have enough nothing in the Bill that allows them to spend or raise money. We're hoping, of course, that..." "There's no companion Bill?" Leverenz:
"I have no companion Bill at this time."
"Staff wants to whisper something in your ear."
"I'm sorry."
"Have you checked with damage control on this?" 77 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 counties, Churchil1: "This is... the funding will come from the not from the state."
"The funding would come from the counties."
"If a county wishes to be a member of the Authority for making.."
"I would be permissive."
"Absolutely."
"Would they turn around then and raise some tax to pay for this?"
"There's no taxing power in the Bill. If they wish to... maybe they have land that they have in some forest preserve that they can connect up to the trail, and so there might not be any additional cost."
"Let me check the Roll Call on how you voted on the one I had about vests on joggers." "Well, because I knew this was going to be such
"And let me ask you." Churchill: d..."
"... superior Bill, I knew that there was no way we could support that."
"One more question. How many flags would I get from the Environmental Council, if I vote for this Bill?"
"I think probably a lot."
"AFL goes up to four flags. I just wanted to know how many this had."
"We'll put a flag on the front of you and a flag on the back of you so that everybody can see you coming and see where you went."
"Now, that's unfair. Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Lake, Hr. Peterson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he'll yield for questions."
"Representative, are motor vehicles prohibited from using these trails?" 78 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"The Authority is for the May 22, 1986 purpose of pathways and bicycle trails, and does not permit motorized vehicles on the trails."
"Thank you."
"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open, and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 108 voting 'aye', 5 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Local Administration, appears House Bill 3551. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3551, a bill for an Act in relationship to forest preserve districts. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Steczo."
"Thank you. Mr. Speaker. Members of the House. House Bill 3551 legalizes and validates the appropriation and tax ordinances for the fiscal years of 1982, 1983, '84 and '85 for DuPage and Kane County Forest Preserve Districts. I think that this question had been debated at length during Representative Berrios' discussion on House Bill 3072, and I would move for the passage and perhaps the same Roll Call, Mr. Speaker."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Steczo, moves for the passage of House Bill 3551. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed 'no'. Voting is now open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 73 voting 'aye', 37 voting 'no', 2 79 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 voting "present". This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Local Administration, appears House Bill 3552. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3552, a Bill for an Act relating to forest preserve districts. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Steczo."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. House Bill 3552 affects forest preserve districts under 3,000 population. Those districts currently have from July 1 to approximately October 1 every year, about 90 days, to close out the fiscal books and prepare budgets, appropriation ordinances, levies, etcetera. What the Bill does, in one respect, is to provide one extra month for that, to allow that work to be done. Yesterday, the House adopted Amendment #2, and Amendment #2 deals with sanitary landfills or regional pollution control facilities on those forest preserve properties. It allows those forest preserves to negotiate with those who operate those landfills, and to negotiate for royalties to try to set up a fund to take care of any problems that may occur down the road. A court case has limited the amount of money that can be raised to 400,000 dollars. This provides that there would be a time limit of 40 years, a dollar limit of 50,000,000. If those funds are not used, they would go back into the County General Revenue Fund. And I would move for the passage, Mr. Speaker, of House Bill 3552."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Steczo, has moved for the passage of House Bill 3552. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hensel."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. If I heard Representative Steczo right, he said 3,000 population in the counties. I believe it should be counties under 80 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL AS SEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 3,000,000 population. Just for the record to correct it. I move for a favorable vote." Speaker Greimań: "The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?" All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed 'no". This is final action. Voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 99 voting 'aye', 16 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Local Administration, appears House Bill 3555. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3555, a Bill for an Act relating to forest preserve districts. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Mr. Steczo, the Gentleman from Cook."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members of the House. House Bill 3555, again, affects forest preserve districts under 3,000,000 population. It allows that in addition to appropriations or levies for the purpose of constructing improvements, it also adds provisions to allow for constructing, restoring, reconditioning, reconstructing or acquiring improvements. Presently, these other conditions are contained in the levy ordinance. This Bill just clarifies two paragraphs to ensure that the money levied for those purposes will be able to be appropriated for those purposes as well."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Steczo, moves for the passage of House Bill 3555. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed 'no". Voting is now open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 81 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DESATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 112 voting 'aye", 2 voting 'no", none voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Hajority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Local Administration, appears House Bill 3575. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3575, a Bill for an Act to amend the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Lady from Cook, Ms. Stern."
"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, House Bill 3575 was generated originally by the Northwest Municipal Conference, but it seems to have universal applicability statewide. Its purpose was to evaluate the impact of federal cuts. In the Northwest Municipal Conference area, they figure it will be about 500,000 dollars in Fiscal Year '86 up to approximately 9,000,000 in Fiscal 1987. This Bill asks DCCA to report annually to the General Assembly on that impact, and to assist units of local government in making recommendations and priority setting on dealing with that impact. It also creates a Revolving Loan Fund with private fund participation, which would fund 75 percent of local projects approved by DCCA interest free. I ask for your support.”
"The Lady from Lake, Ms. Stern, moves for the passage of House Bill 3575. And on that, the Gentleman from Dewitt, Mr. Vinson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in opposition to the Lady's proposal. Now, I don't think anybody would have a serious concern or objection to just doing a study on what the impact of spending cuts are on local governments. We all have those problems in our areas. The problem with the Bill is that the Bill creates a new program, a new fund, to replace 82 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 those lost federal revenues from some other source. The source is not specified. What I would suggest will happen, absolutely and inevitably, in this legislative process that we have, is that either in the appropriation Bills that are considered in the Senate Bills or next year in an appropriation Bill, there will be a Bill or an Amendment submitted to take the money that's... to replace those funds out of the General Revenue Fund. That's what always happens when the camel gets its nosa under the tent. Now, where does that money come from? Well, if you look at the General Revenue Fund, a very major chunk of the money in there goes to education. We chose, last year and hopefully again this year, to dramatically increase the availability of state revenues for education, because We decided that the single biggest priority of government in this state is education. Education prepares people for jobs. Education is the one thing that can help this state get out of the problems that we have. If you take money away from education, as the Lady's subsequent Bill will probably propose, then your in the position... then your in the position of undermining our ability to educate kids, to fund schools and to recover from the economic problems that beset us. I oppose this Bill, not because local government projects aren't nice, but because it's going to come from education. It's going to hurt education in the long run, and we don't need to create more sources of competition for the education dollar in this state. It's a bad Bill. We ought to vote 'no' on it."
"Further discussion? There being none, the Lady from Lake, Ms. Stern, to close."
"I think it is a great leap from a Bill which would assist units of local government in assessing the impact of federal cuts to a Bill which would cut the teath out of 83 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 education. I think Mr. Vinson is paranoidal. This is a Bill urgently needed by the units of local government, not simply in the Northwest Municipal Conference area, but all over the state. We are in for a couple of very tough years. And if DCCA can assist, I think it's appropriate that they should be asked to do so. I ask your favorable vote."
"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open, and this is final action. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman, one minute to explain your vote."
"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Gentleman who spoke in opposition to this Bill apparently was reading another Bill. This Bill has nothing at all to do with education. It's a local government assistance Bill. I believe that we all want to support and provide assistance to our local governments. And this is a good Bill. The facts were totally misrepresented, and I think the Lady is correct that the Gentleman is paranoid."
"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. Mr. Cullerton, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"
"I was going to explain my vote, Mr. Speaker."
"Go ahead, you have one minute. It's a courtesy I've extended on your side, but I'll not do it if you care, Mr. Vinson. It's a courtesy..."
"I had my light on. I had my light on."
"It's a courtesy that has often been extended. Mr. Cullerton..."
"I had my light on."
"... you have one moment... one minute." 84 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"I just wanted to explain to people people forget that May 22, 1986 that sometimes Representative... Representative from Clinton sometimes has to feel the need to give a speech. He hasn't given a speech yet. He got up and gave a speech on a Bill that was entirely different from the Bill we're voting on and some people get confused and they think that we're voting on a Bill that Vinson was talking about and it is an entirely different Bill. He is embarrassed about Gramm-Rudman and he wants to disguise it by being... voting against this Bill. So, I would urge people who are over on this side of the aisle especially who think this has something to do with education to maybe review what the Bill actually does and vote 'aye'."
"Mr. Dunn, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"
"To explain my vote."
"Go ahead Mr. Dunn. We'll let you then."
"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentleman of the House. I think we need more green votes up there because if I understand the legislative charge to DCCA, one of its main charges is to assist local governments. The biggest problem facing local governments today are the cutbacks in federal funds expected as a result of Gramm-Rudman. This legislation is designed to help the local governments find out the impact that they can expect and what to do about it. This should be DCCA's main charge and we ought to put green votes up there on the board and have DCCA go to work to do what it was created to do. So, let's put some green votes up there."
"Mr. Shaw. Mr. Shaw votes 'aye'. Yes, Mr. Vinson. Mr. Vinson, do you wish to vote 'aye'?"
"Mr. Speaker."
"Oh, I'm sorry." 85 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
May 22, 1986 "You took the record. You can't change your votes after you have taken the record."
"Oh, absolutely... not so, Mr. Vinson. You know that. You can change your vote any time."
"You cannot change your votes after... after the record has been taken."
"Mr. Vinson. Mr. Vinson. Mr. Vinson. Mr. Vinson. I won't even dignify that one with a ruling. You are well aware that until the record is taken, until the record is announced, the record is announced, anyone can change their vote. No, we'll go on. Mr. Shaw changed his vote. Mr. McNamara. Mr. McNamara votes 'aye'. Mr. Leverenz."
"Record me 'aye'."
"Mr. Leverenz votes 'aye'. Mr. Huff. Mr. Huff votes 'aye'. Mr. Phelps. Mr. Phelps votes 'aye'. Mr... Ms. Younge. Ms. Younge votes 'aye'. Mr. McCracken, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"
"Can you guess?"
"You wish to vote 'aye'."
"No, I'm seeking a verification if it appears to get the requisite number of votes."
"Yes, Ms. Stern, one minute to explain your vote."
"I wasn't going to explain. I was going to ask for Postponed Consideration. Mr. Speaker."
"Okay. On this question, 54 voting 'aye', 52 voting 'no', 9 voting 'present'. And the Lady asks for Postponed Consideration. Leave... granted. On the Order of House Bills Second Reading - Local Administration appears House Bill 3570. Mr. Clerk. Out of the record. Now on page seven of the Calendar, Special Order - Administration of Justice appears House Bill 2529. Mr. 86 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Johnson. Out of the record. On that Order of Business appears House Bill 3043. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3043, a Bill for an Act to amend the States Mandate Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The Chief Sponsor of this Bill is Representative Madigan and I ask leave to handle the Bill for Representative Madigan. The Bill amends the State's Mandate Act to make due process mandates which concern the administration of justice subject to state reimbursement. The Mandates Act, as, you know, requires the state to reimburse units of local government for costs that are incurred as result of Bills that we pass down here. However, the Mandates Act says, right now, that any increased costs occurring to local governments as a result of mandates dealing with the organization and structure of local government or due process mandates are not reimbursable by the state. So, the intent of this Bill is to say that when we impose a due process mandate it should come under the State Mandates Act. Now, due process mandates are such things as notification and conduct of public hearings, procedures for administrative and judicial review, and protection of the public from non-feasance by local government officials, and, also, matters dealing with the administration of justice. I would appreciate your support for this Bill. This recognizes the fact that when we pass Bills down here which have a tremendous impact on the cost of local government we should be willing to back up those Bills with money from the state. Happy to answer any questions. Appreciate your support."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton, moves for the passage of House Bill 3043. And on that, the 87 STATE OF ILLINCIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DÉBATE 121st Legislative Day Gentleman from DeWitt, Mr. Vinson." May 22, 1986
"Yes, Мг. Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman of the House, while Mrг. Cullerton feels I give speeches on the wrong Bills, I feel that he mumbles about the right Bills and you never can hear what his speeches are. And, as a consequence, I wonder if he might yield for a question, Mr. Speaker."
"Indicates that he will."
"Representative, my understanding is that when we dealt with this Bill last, you indicated that the Speaker would present the Bill on the floor. Does the fact that you're presenting the Bill mean that he no longer has an interest in it?"
"Of course he has interest in it. The last time the Bill came up the Speaker was not in town, wasn't available to answer any questions."
"He what? He wasn't in town?"
"Right. That's right."
"Where was he?"
"He was raising money in Washington, I think."
"Was that the day of the Gridiron Dinner?"
"I think so."
"I see. And was there a particular reason why that fund raiser had to be scheduled on that day?"
"Probably so he wouldn't have to personally receive the pickle."
"That's what I thought. That was my suspicion at the time, but I never had it confirmed before."
"I think you deserve it instead of him, myself. Maybe next year."
"But, the voters, the voters really deliver the pickle, don't they?"
"Okay, so are you for the Bill or not?" 88 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986
"Well, I just wanted to hear the Speaker talk about this Bill."
"Well, it's the Speakers Bill. So, I just wanted to make that clear."
"Do you think that it might appropriate since he wasn't here the last time that we should present him with pickle on this time?"
"No."
"Would you say that... would your answer be the same if we were talking privately?"
"I don't know."
"Should we... Mr. Vinson... We get on the order of agricultural products later, so we can talk about the pickles later on. Right now, we're on the order of Administration of Justice. Proceed."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I understand that. I just want the Membership of this Assembly to really consider all of the ramifications of this particular Bill and their opportunity to do something good. Almost every Member of this General Assembly has the opportunity to hear themselves pickled in the Gridiron Dinner. The Speaker didn't have that opportunity and because of the particular events associated with this Bill, every Member of the General Assembly now has the opportunity to present the Speaker with that opportunity to be pickled, and I just think you ought to consider that in the process of casting your vote and making your mind up on this particular Bill or lemon."
"Further discussions? The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."
"Thank you, Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for a question? Representative, has there been an accompanying appropriation Bill introduced regarding the cost of this program?" 89 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"No. May 22, 1986 What this means is that when we pass a Bill after this becomes law when we pass a Bill if... just like right now, any Bill we pass that does come under the State Mandates Act, there will have to be a corresponding appropriation to the local government. The purpose of the Bill is to perhaps make us think twice about passing Bills that cost local government money without accompanying it with an appropriation when we pass it. But, this Bill itself will not cost money. In fact, what it might end up doing is having us not pass Bills that cost local government so much money."
"What type of due process mandates does this cover? For example, if a Federal Court ruled that due process was violated in the housing of prisoners in Cook County jail, would that type of mandate requiring the jail to reorganize itself, or expand... is that the type of mandate you're talking about?"
"Only those that deal with the administration of justice. And if you look at the State Mandate Act, Section. 2202 under findings and purposes it talks about... matter of fact I'll quote from it. "Some of those actions have dealt in detail with the internal management of local governments others have specified the establishment of new services and facilities without providing any new revenue source or any financial participation by the state." And, so that's, I think where we would look to find out how a court might interpret what is included by due process mandates."
"Well then, what is the definition of due process mandates?"
"What is the definition?"
"Yes."
"I read it before, be happy to do it again. 90 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 "Administration of such matters dealing with administration of justice, notification and conduct of public hearings, procedures for administrative and judicial review of actions taken by governing bodies and protection of the public from malfeasance, misfeasance or non-feasance by local government officials." That's a quote from the statutes."
"So, if one sued a local official and was successful on a due process basis, that the state would become liable for that award?"
"No, this Bill only deals with the administration of justice."
"Well what does that mean, though?"
"What does the administration of justice mean?"
"Yeah, what does it mean? I mean, in the context of this Bill, what does it mean?"
"Well, I'd say, like our DUI Bill that you and I passed that was a Bill that was a Bill that was passed that dealt with the administration of justice which imposed apparently, some more cost on local government."
"Okay, so any time a..."
"We pass a Bill like that it would now come under the State Mandates Act."
"Alright. Anytime a Bill was passed like that one which provided for greater penalties or rewrote the law of procedure relative to criminal law..."
"Criminal Code... that's right. If it imposes a greater cost."
"Would it apply to a change in civil law as well? It probably would."
"It could."
"Okay."
"Its designed to be, if you're concerned about it 91 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 being broad, its... I would say its designed to be broad, because its designed to say that we should really look at what it is we pass down here or up here in Springfield and how it affects the cost of our local government."
"Okay, to the Bill. Strike that, I have another question. Do you know why the due process mandate is exempted under current law, what the policy reasons were for that, or are for that?"
"I don't know. It was done... it was done back in 1979, I believe, and I don't just recall why that was not included."
"Okay, in our state typically the administration of justice is left to local units of local government, specifically the counties. The county and the county form of government is responsible for the administration of justice. The state on the other hand is responsible for the state penitentiaries and things of that nature. Although we have the sole responsibility for writing the Criminal Code, local units of government also have the opportunity to draw ordinances which can be similar. The reason the due process mandate has been exempted, I think, is that it recognizes this division of government. The counties are responsible for implementation... or implementation of our policy relative to criminal law, the Circuit Courts are local... are the courts of original jurisdiction in civil and criminal matters and the fact of the matter is that these due process mandates, as they are called, are nothing more than our passage of the Criminal Code or civil procedure. Everytime a civil procedure Amendment comes up we're going to have to consider whether or not it has an impact on, quote, 'the administration of justice'. Every time somebody wants to rewrite the sex code or the Criminal Sexual Offense Code, we have to 92 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 consider whether it creates a due process mandate within the administration of justice. This is a very broad-based Bill, as the Sponsor indicates, and is potentially extremely expensive. I would submit that the proper reason for exempting these in the first place is because of this distinction of duties between local and State Government and that this muddies that water and is going to be very, very expensive."
"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open, and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 87 voting 'aye', 24 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Braun, in the Chair."
"On page seven appears House Bill 3271. Representative Vinson. Representative Vinson, on House Bill 3271. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3271, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman of the Assembly. This Bill is designed to make state law consistent with and in compliance with federal law in regard to child support. At the time the Bill was considered by the Committee on the Judiciary there were several matters of controversy in regard to the particular method by which we chose to make state law on child support comply with federal law on child support. Subsequently, as 93 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 I promised in the Committee on Judiciary, meetings were convened between the Department of Public Aid and the various individuals and groups in controversy. Those meetings resulted in an agreed approach, a consentual approach to dealing with this problem. And, those agreements were embodied in an Amendment that is now the Bill, House Bill 3271. In my... to my knowledge no one now disagrees with the Bill. It will put Illinois in compliance with federal law on child support and make us fully eligible for the federal benefits which will result from that and for the federal procedures that we can now avail our citizens of for that purpose. I don't believe there is any controversy. Be glad to answer any question and would solicit your favorable consideration of House Bill 3271."
"The Gentleman moves the passage of House Bill 3271. On that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 3271 pass?' All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. This is final action. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 112 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present?' House Bill 3271, having received the Constitutional Majority is, hereby declared passed. House Bill 3340, Representative Cullerton. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3340, a Bill for an Act relating to the civil cause of action against certain persons. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentleman of the House. This Bill was Amended by a number of 94 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 Amendments offered by Representative Vinson and McCracken which are on the Bill and improved the Bill. The Bill deals with establishing a civil cause of action on behalf of a governmental unit against a person who has received benefits from that unit, and, if that person fails to repay the governmental unit and allows for certain civil remedies to be utilized by the unit of local government. Representative Vinson had an Amendment which granted a private right of action to recover the damages... the damages authorized in this Act on behalf of such governmental unit, and he indicated, when we debated that Amendment, that the money that would be received from the private citizen would go to the governmental unit. We had some Amendments dealing with the issue of interest. Interest can be imposed on the recipient who fraudulently obtained these benefits and interest must be or shall be imposed in these penalties. It also authorizes a court in a civil action to impose either treble damages or up to $2,000 for each scheme of fraudulent scheme imposed for which the person was found liable. I think that the purpose of the Bill is to make it easier for units of local government, including the state, to crack down on people who have fraudulently obtained certain benefits such as sick pay or vacation pay or medical or dental or health benefits fraudulently. And, I would appreciate your support for the Bill and be happy to answer any questions."
"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 3340. And on that, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson."
"Yes, will the Gentleman yield for question, Madam Speaker?"
"He indicates he will." 95 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Representative, does this Bill bear an regard to taxpayer suit that I offered?" May 22, 1986 Amendment in
"Yes, Amendment 2. That's your Amendment. That's the one I spoke about."
"Yes, thank you. Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman of the House, I rise in support of the Bill, as I said I would when the Amendment was adopted. It is a very good Bill, particularly with the Amendment, and I believe will secure the return of fraudulently gotten gains to the public treasury."
"Representative Cullerton."
"Yes, I just would appreciate your support for the Bill."
"Is there further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Levin."
"Would the Gentleman yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Okay. Representative, I'm just wondering what is covered by this legislation as far as what is an act that is considered fraudulent. You know, let's assume somebody receives in the mail a check from a unit of government which, you know he made no advert representations, did not say he was entitled to something that he was not entitled to, but he gets a check and he cashes that check. Does this Bill cover that situation or not?"
"Well, I'll look to the Section 2 of the Bill, and a person who has received from the local government compensation, benefits and renumeration, that means of a false or a fradulent record or a false statement or other willful misrepresentation is a person... that's what the law says. So, I would say that if he goes and cashes a check that he thought he was entitled to, that it would not be covered. If he knew the check was such a large amount 96 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 where there had to be some evidence, it was clear that he knew or should of known that it wasn't his money, then I would say that it would come under Section 2. And what Section 2 says is that there shall be... the local government has to make a good faith effort to collect the money by means of a refund and provide for an installment payment, if it's... if it's appropriate. before they file a civil action. So, in the case that you've cited, I really can't say exactly whether or not it would be covered or not. It really depends on the individual facts."
"So, you are saying you could have a situation where somebody did not make any misrepresentations, you know, the government acted by accident, the person had nothing to do with it, but this would still cover that situation."
"Well, it calls for a false or fraudulent record statement or other willful misrepresentation. So, in the case that you cited, getting the check and cashing it, there's really none of that existed. I'm just hypothecating that if it was such a large amount of money, maybe then it could be argued that there was some type of a fraudulent devise used. But, the worst that could happen would be that they would have to give the money back before there would be any civil action filed."
"Alright, because this... my understanding is this Bill provides for, under certain circumstances, treble damages and I can see where certainly that individual should be required to give the money back. But, the policy question is, should he have to give treble damages in that kind of a situation?"
"That's only in the discretion of a Judge. Okay? If there is a... If there is an attempt to get the money back, it's been turned down by the recipient and there's a law suit filed, and there's evidence of a willful concealment 97 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 of certain facts in an attempt to obtain the money or they knowingly obtain the money that they were not entitled to, then under those circumstances, a Judge could either issue treble damages or an amount not to exceed $2,000 as a penalty."
"Thank you."
"Is there further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Brookins." Brookins:: "Thank you. Will the Gentleman yield for question?"
"He indicates he will."
"Representative, if I received an income tax check by mistake for $3,500 and I went and cashed it and it was discovered that I was not due that, under this Bill would I be liable for penalties?"
"Probably not, the way you have discribed it. You'd have to give the money back."
"What if I spent it and didn't have the money to give back?"
"Then the Bill specifically calls for an installment payment plan. And this would occur prior to any civil law suit being filed."
"And, if I then refuse to pay I could be charged with a criminal law suit."
"Not criminal, it's a civil action. It would be brought by the Corporation Counsel's Office. Let's say you worked for the City of Chicago and you received a check that wasn't yours and you refused to pay it back. The Corporation Counsel's then in the City of Chicago would file a law suit and the worst thing that could happen would be that you'd have to pay back the amount of money that you received plus three times that amount. But, that's only if it was done... if there was a false record submitted. 98 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Let's say that the individual employee submitted information that he had worked when he really wasn't working or some false document, not a situation where there was a mistake where they just got a benefit and they attempted to give it back, then there wouldn't be any law suit."
"Aren't there already remedies for this in this situation? In other words, what is the need for this at this time?"
"Well, the... when the Mayor of the City of Chicago asked for his Representatives to come down here and try to pass this, I think they probably had in mind an effort to make it even clearer in the civil... cause of action that this is something in which it would be very helpful to the City of Chicago to make sure that people aren't ripping off the City so that we don't lose more money, so that we don't have to raise our property taxes any higher than we already have."
"I was not aware that the... I didn't get that call from the Mayor that he asked me anything about it and I don't think my Leader did anyway and so thats not a criteria in this instance, or a priority in my case. So..."
"I understand..."
"That is not... That is not..."
"That's just one of the factors. That's just one of the factors. A lot of times we listen to people who are supporting certain pieces of legislation. In this particular case, this Bill was drafted by the Corporation Counsel's Office in the City of Chicago."
"The Bill is awful vague in my opinion, Representative, and I just can't see the need for this, at this time. I'm afraid that what will happen is that some... To the Bill, 99 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Madam Speaker. What I'm afraid of is that some innocent person will receive a check in the mail thinking that his... in my neighborhood they say your ship comes in... that his ship has arrived and he goes to the bank, currency exchange, cashes his check and later on discovers that it was not... did not belong to him. He spent the money and criminal actions and judgements and foreclosures will result in it. And, therefore, I can't see at this stage why we need this law and that is my reasoning and there is already remedies on the books to handle this. Thank you, Madam Speaker."
"Is there further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cull... Representative Shaw."
"Yeah, Representative Cullen... Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Representative Cullerton, I believe that you just stated that... to Representative Brookins that the Corporation Counsel would bring the charges."
"Not charges. Let's not... make it good."
"File suit."
"Yes."
"Well, what does it mean in Amendment #2?"
"Amendment #2 did not get it out."
"Where we are talking about citizens bringing suit, law suit."
"Oh, yes, I'm sorry that was adopted. That was Representative Vinson's and what that means is that upon notification to the city that there is some benefit that has been obtained fraudulently or illegally and if the city does not bring the cause of action, then a private right of action to recover the damages can be brought on behalf of 100 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the unit by the private citizen. They must, as I indicated, they must send notice of the intent to sue to the appropriate city authority and they have 60 days to act themselves and if it... if they are successful, the private citizen can obtain attorneys' fees if it's brought in good faith and if they win. But, the... any fines that are obtained must go to the local government."
"All this... there is no criminal penalty involved in this. It's only a civil..."
"No, this is just civil. It's someone who rips off the unit of local government through a fraudulent means and this is enhancing the ability to go after that person on a civil law suit. That's what the Bill does."
"Would this apply to mileage as well?"
"I'm sorry."
"Would this apply to mileage, automobile mileage?"
"Well, it hasn't gone into effect, yet. So, if you have to give some money back, you better hurry up and do it before the Governor signs the Bill."
"No, if it passed would it apply to mileage?"
"It could be. Yes, it could be some benefits that were obtained. If you said that you... I imagine if you said that you had traveled back and forth from Springfield and even though you hadn't, or you said that you lived 500 miles away rather than 200 miles and you were getting money illegally and you illegally and fraudulently knew you were doing that and you did it willfully, under this Bill you could... you could be sued and you would have to give back the money and possibly even more than the amount of money that you stole."
"Yeah, well I didn't have myself in mind when I was talking...."
"Oh, I understand." 101 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Okay, thank you."
"Is there further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton, to close."
"Yes, I think that we have sufficently debated this Bill and I would appreciate an 'aye vote."
"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 3340. All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote "no". The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 1ll voting 'aye", 2 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present. House Bill 3340, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3349, Representative Madigan. Representative Cullerton. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3349, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Criminal Information Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton, on House Bill 3349."
"Yes, thank you, Madam Speaker. I would point out that Amendment #1 was adopted on this Bill, which authorizes the States Attorneys' Appellate Services Commission to set up the Criminal Justice Information Authority to receive monies under this Bill. This gives that Commission power to receive state funds and disburse them to counties to reimburse them for various criminal justice activities. These funds must be distributed by the Authority on a per capita basis. There is a corresponding appropriation Bill for 20 million dollars to the Authority. This money... this is the authorization Bill for that money to be disbursed. The purpose of the Bill is to allow for the state to provide whatever amount that they can afford 102 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day to appropriate to the Commission. would The May 22, 1986 Commission then distribute the money to various counties on a per capita basis to have them be reimbursed for the cost of the criminal justice system. Appreciate your support, be happy to answer any questions.
"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 3349. And on that, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Representative Cullerton, is House Bill 3348 which appropriates 20 million dollars for this purpose, is that correct?"
"That's correct."
"And do you expect the annual cost of this to be 20 million dollars? I assume that's the reason for the appropriation."
"Well, I think that we had to have a reasonable amount that would be significant in alleviating the cost of the criminal justice system on the local government, but, also something that would be affordable on our state budget."
"And, under current law is there a requirement of reimbursement for these types of activities? We just discussed that other Bill on the administration of justice."
"There are... there are examples of the state reimbursing local government for the cost of criminal justice, for example, the cost reimbursing for the cost of the state's attorneys salaries, the court reporters, the Judges, a portion of the probation officers salary. And, this just follows up along that general philosophy. We, perhaps, in the state are in a better position to fund 103 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DESATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 criminal justice costs rather than local government. As you know, the local government has the problem of having to raise property taxes to pay for their local jails. The state is in a little bit better position to raise funds to provide for cost of criminal justice system. This is..."
"Is this reimbursement... is this mandated anywhere under current law?"
"No."
"Alright. Is criminal justice activities a defined term in this Bill?"
"No. Its designed to be... again the money will be sent on a per capita basis to the counties and they have the broad range of discretion to determine how they want to fight crime with it."
"Right. So, the grant will be made for prospective activities, not as reimbursement for already occurred activities."
"They'll get the money in the future, if that's what you mean, yes. If they want to use it to pay off previous costs that were incurred as result to the criminal justice system, I don't think there will be any prohibition."
"So, the definition of what constitutes criminal justice activities is left with the local units of government. The only requirement is that the counties have to spend it on that function."
"I'd say that is accurate."
"Okay, alright. I rise in opposition to the Bill and I would ask my colleagues to join me. This is another attempt and a very expensive one to begin the move from a two tiered system of responsibility for criminal justice in this state toward the movement of a single tier; that is, all local activities governed and paid for by the state. Twenty million dollars is only the start. All of those 104 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 local activities that the counties undertake for which they levy taxes are being superseded by this type of Bill. The grant of the funds to the State Appellate Prosecutor's Office for the purpose of reimbursement flies in the face of this two tiered system and the expense of it is substantial. We are not going to be lowering anybody's taxes. We are going to be redistributing the tax load on the citizens. And, this is a Bill which should not be passed, and I ask for a 'no' vote."
"Is there further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative DeJaegher."
"John, one quick question. This big, particular Bill that we're discussing now, does that have anything to do with jail construction?"
"Well, to the extent that money would be sent to the counties for criminal justice activities, I would say that they could use the money to rehabilitate or bring there jails into compliance with the state standards. They could."
"Then let me give you a basic example of what happened in Rock Island County. We just opened a new jail facility about six months ago. Eight million dollars was spent and that was local taxpayers spending that particular money. Is there a reimbursement factor? Could any... could Rock Island County receive some compensation?"
"Well, that's under Representative Phelps' Bill, that we debated yesterday. It's, I think on... I don't know if it passed or not, but that is what happened there. But this money would be distributed on a per capita basis back to the counties and they can use it for criminal justice activities. I would say that that could be used to help pay off the cost of an additional... or a jail." 105 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Thank you, John." May 22, 1986
"Is there further discussion? There being none, the Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, to close."
"Yes. Let me emphasize one... one important point. This money is not going back to counties based on really how much need they can demonstrate for criminal justice activities. This money is going back on a per capita basis. So, if you look at it that way, if you take a county like DuPage which has a good number of people, they will receive money on a per capita basis. They have less crime in DuPage County than in other counties but, they will be receiving the money on a per capita basis. So they will benefit perhaps to a greater extent than other counties under this Bill. Secondly, contrary to what was raised in debate, we already have examples of the state paying for cost for criminal justice activities. We reimburse state attorneys' salaries, we pay for the Judges. salaries, we pay for court reporters and what this Bill says... I also want to emphasize that this is not... if you take 20 million dollars out of the State Treasury and give it to the locals, it's not a increase in cost; it's a shifting of cost. That would have the effect of alleviating the local governments from having to raise property taxes which is there... or sin taxes, sales taxes which is there main source of revenue. So, it's not going to cost additional money, it shifts the cost to the state from the locals. After all that's where it should be since we're the ones imposing these additional costs on the local government. So, I would appreciate your support for Speaker Madigan's Bill, and I urge an 'aye' vote."
"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 3349. All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. The Gentleman from 106 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Saline, Representative Phelps. One minute..."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. In just explaining my vote, I concur with Representative Cullerton, especially, his last remarks, that we need to emphasize if it is... the way I interpreted it. it is a shift in responsibility and it puts it in a proper place where it always belonged, if we mandate this to the local governments."
"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this Bill there are 73 voting 'aye', 40 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. House Bill 3349, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3394, Representative Keane. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3394, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Municipal Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Keane."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. House Bill 3394 has two different parts. The base Bill or the basic Bill gives specificity to the powers of municipal government to collect taxes. The... as you may know. their tax collections... the statutes are very vague and this makes it specific. It lays out what the corporate authorities of a municipality, what powers they have. It's been approved by the Municipal League and by others... a number of cities including the City of Chicago. The second part of the Bill is Representative Ewings' Bill which takes care of a problem in his district, where a unit of local government was told that they had... they did not have authority to provide health and different kinds of health, accident, group life, hospital and medical insurance to dependents of employees. I would be happy to answer any questions on either part of the Bill and ask for a favorable Roll Call."
"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 107 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 3394. On that is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 3394 pass?' All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk, will take the record. On this question, there are 109 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'no'. House Bill 3394, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3573, Representative Cullerton. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3573, a Bill for an Act in relationship to pretrial services. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."
"Thank you. Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill establishes a pretrial service agency for the purposes of gathering and verifying information that's important and relevant to the setting of bond and providing that information to the Judge who sets the bond. The functions of the agency would be to interview detained persons concerning their background and verify that background, make recommendations on... to the court on possible conditions that can be imposed on a defendant prior to trial and to monitor compliance with those conditions notifying the court of any violations. Now, back in 1980, there was a study committee on bail procedures of the Illinois Judicial Conference. The first recommendation that they had was to give Judges more authority in setting conditions other than the payment of cash for a defendant's release. This was done. We enacted that legislation last year and had the effect of saying the Judge could impose a condition other than having to come up with money on a defendant in setting the bond. Now, the second part of that recommendation was to establish this 108 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day pretrial obtained service agency SO that May 22, 1986 information could be by the Judges, or by this new agency and given to the Judges a copy going to the defendant and the states attorney. to help determine what the bond should be. Ibe Chicago_Iribune conducted a study published in June of 35, which examined the bail system in Cook County. And, basically what they found was there were many people, in fact there were over 13,000 people who were incarcerated for crimes they were ultimately found not guilty of. But, for people who could not make bond. But 40 percent of those people who did get convicted were able to make bail within a couple of days of being arrested. What we're saying with this Bill is that it's... we're recognizing the need for a Judge to have information before he sets bond, better information than he has now. It's going to have the effect of having people who should not be incarcerated have to be because other conditions will be set. But those people who are more violent offenders are more than likely not to come back to the court or people who lie about their employment or their family ties, this will be verified by this pretrial service agency who works for the court, not for the defendant or the state, and as a result people who should not get out on bond will not get out on bond. This has been found to work in Washington, D.C. They have had it there for 22 years. It's also had some form of this in New York, Pennsylvania, and Florida. The study was done of the effects... the study was done of the effects of this agency by a U.S. Congressional Committee that conducted an investigation of the benefits of a pretrial service agency before Congress. Every U.S. District Court, by the way, has this in Federal Court. It found that crimes on bail by defendants charged with a federal offense. decreased from 6.9 percent to three percent. These are people who are out 109 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 on bond who had been committing crimes. After this pretrial service agency went into effect, people who committed crimes, the percentage went down from seven percent down to three percent. A drop of some 56 percent. And, there also were fewer defendants failing to reappear before the court. The same federal investigation found that the number of defendants on bail who failed to reappear decreased from seven percent down to two percent over a four year period, a 70 percent drop. So, that's the need for the Bill. I think that what we're saying is once again is that in the long run, we'll have people who shouldn't be in jail won't be and people who are now getting out on bond because the Judge sets the bond because he doesn't know enough about the background of the individual will be detained. Appreciate your support and happy to answer any questions."
"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 3573. And on that, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Knox, Representative Hawkinson."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise in opposition to this legislation. When I first came down here about four years ago we were in the process of creating a new enhanced probation department in the State of Illinois, and that has been passed and it's costing about 60 million dollars or when it is fully enhanced it's going to be about a 50 million dollar program and it's for probation officers and enhanced probation programs with the same kinds of objectives. Now we are looking at creating another kind of agency that is supposed to be for pretrial services. I submit that particularly in 101 counties in this state that this would be a wasteful program, that it is not necessary, that although, there is an estimate of seven million 110 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 dollars on it now, in a couple of years we're going to be looking at vastly expanded program. We're mandating salaries on the same way that we've mandated the salary programs for our probation officers and, although the Sponsor has wisely on this and previous legislation today tried to start a process of state reimbursements for these kinds of mandates, we all know that it is not going to work that way and that our county taxpayers are going to be supporting another mandated program with a very heavy cost. It is not necessary because the defendant's... defense attorneys' provide this kind of information to the court right now. Where there is a dispute about it, the state attorney's office has, through its investigators and police departments the opportunities to contest that kind of information. It is simply not needed at least in most of the state and would be a tremendous taxpayers' burden on our county people. And, I would urge a 'no' vote."
"Is there further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook... from Dewitt, Representative Vinson."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman of the House. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"I am rather in doubt about this Bill and my initial reaction was very much the same as the Gentleman from Knox. And then I started wondering whether this is something to deal with preventative detention for terrorists and the like. I just wonder if you could elucidate that and tell me which way I should look at this?"
"Well, it does deal, in a way, with the issue of preventative detention which was debated last year, when we passed the Bail Bill. The Preventative detention issue came up when the state's attorneys from throughout the 111 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 state said basically we need more time to check into the background of the defendant before we can determine what the bond should be. Now that concept was not entirely embraced by the General Assembly. We did change the conditions of bond. What this Bill says, it recognizes that fact: that we don't have enough information about a defendant before bond is set. And, so the effect of this Bill, I believe, is to in some cases have a higher bond set for people who end up getting out on bond. I'm sorry, in some cases people who now get out on bond won't get out on bond because this agency will get information and verify information and show the court that this is a dangerous person. If, on the other hand, they have found out that the person does have ties to the community, they have never be arrested, then perhaps no bond would be set and we'd perhaps in those cases alleviate the local crowding problem in the jail. So, to the extent..."
"What kind of a showing has to be made to deny bond and bail?"
"That's a very good point. I should of have raised that. We just passed a Constitutional Amendment that is going to be on the ballot, which undoubtedly will pass, that expands those crimes for which no bond can be set. It will be basically any crime that you can't get probation for and if there is a showing of dangerousness, if that person poses a threat of safety then no bond could be set. That's another reason why we need this Bill, because there has to be information verified by a court to determine what... whether that person poses a threat to society or not to determine whether or not no bond can be set. So, in some cases it would, this agency would result in a person not getting bond. For example, if a person says, I work at the Western Electric plant, this agency would have an 112 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 employee that would verify whether or not the defendant actually worked there or not. If it turned out that he does not that information would be presented to the court. The court would take that into consideration in setting or not setting bond.
"Thank you."
"Is there further discussion? There being none, the Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton, to close."
"Right. I think that Representative Hawkinson raised some issues that I would like to address. The fact is we are spending an enormous amount of money on a probation system. Now, presumedly we're doing that in some cases, because we simply don't have enough room in the jails to lock everybody up. So, we're going to spend a lot of money to have a probation system to monitor people who... after they have been convicted. But, we spend all that money on people after they have been convicted. Why don't we spend some money to find out who we should lock up and who we shouldn't lock up prior to a trial. That's the theory behind this particular Bill. It's designed to give Judges information in setting bond. I have had Judges call me in support of this Bill, especially in the Narcotics Division in Cook County. Judges calling me and indicating that they sure would like to know some more background on some of these people who are alleged drug dealers in determining how much bond to set. If they know that the person is really from Columbia and that he has a little estate or a farm down there and that can be verified by this agency he's going to set a much higher bond. So again. I think it is something which the time has come for it. The Supreme Court has recommended that we adopt a pretrial service agency. The courts are calling for it. It's an 113 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 independent agency, not an employee of the state or of the defendant and in the long run it might alleviate some of the crowded jail conditions in the local jails, but also at the same time lock up dangerous people who should not be out on the street. Appreciate your support for the Bill."
"The Gentleman has moved the adoption of... the passage rather of House Bill 3573. All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote "no". The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Chair recognizes... For what reason does the Gentleman from Knox rise?"
"In the event that this receives 60 votes, I would like to verify."
"Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 65 voting 'aye", 47 voting 'no". The Gentleman from Knox has requested a verification of the affirmative vote. Mr. Clerk."
"Poll the Affirmative. Alexander. Berrios. Bowman. Braun. Breslin. Brookins. Capparelli. Christensen. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. Daley. DeJaegher. DeLeo. Didrickson. Farley. Flinn. Flowers. Giglio. Giorgi. Greiman. Hannig. Hartke. Hasara. Hicks. Huff. Keane. Kirkland. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. Leflore. Leverenz. Levin. Martinez. Matijevich. McGann. McNamara. Mc Pike. Mulcahey. Nash. O'Connell. Panayotovich. Pangle."
"Mr. Clerk, excuse me. Representative Breslin asks leave to be verified. Leave is granted. Any further requests for leave to be verified? Any further requests for leave to be verified? Proceed, Mr. Clerk."
"Preston. Pullen. Rea. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Slater. Steczo. Stern. ..." 114 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"The Gentleman from... excuse me, Mr. Clerk. Mr.... The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Brookins."
"Leave to be verified."
"The Gentleman requests leave. Leave is granted. Representative Bowman requests leave to be verified. Any further requests for leave to be verified? Proceed, Mr. Clerk."
"Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. Washington. White. Wolf. Anthony Young. Hyvetter Younge. And Mr. Speaker."
"Any questions of the affirmative?"
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Representative Mulcahey."
"Right here."
"Representative O'Connell."
"Representative O'Connell. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? Representative O'Connell. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He appears not to be. Remove him."
"Representative Ronan."
"Representative Ronan. Representative Al Ronan. Is the Gentleman in the... is the Gentleman in the chamber? He appears not to be. Remove him. Representative O'Connell has returned to the chamber. Representative Anthony Young asks leave to be verified?"
"Leave. Representative Farley."
"Representative Farley is in the Nurse's Station."
"Representative Daley."
"Representative Daley. Representative Daley is in the back row."
"Representative Richmond."
"Representative Richmond. Oh, did you say Breslin?"
"No, Richmond."
"Representative Bruce Richmond. Is the Gentleman 115 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 in the chamber? Representative Richmond. He appears not to be. Remove him."
"Representative Flinn."
"Representative Monroe Flinn. Representative Flinn. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He appears not to be. Remove his vote."
"Representative Hicks."
"Representative Hicks. Representative Hicks is in his chair."
"Representative Pullen."
"Representative Pullen. Representative Penny Pullen. Is the Lady in the chamber? She appears not to be. Remove her vote."
"Representative Terzich. Representative Terzich. Representative Bob Terzich. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He appears not to be. Remove his vote."
"Representative Huff."
"Representative Huff. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He appears not to be. Remove his vote."
"Representative Preston."
"Representative Lee Preston. Representative Preston. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He appears not to be. Remove his vote."
"Representative Dunn."
"Representative Dunn."
"He voted 'no'. I'm sorry."
"Representative Dunn voted 'no'."
"Representative Krska."
"Representative Krska. Representative Bob Krska. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He appears not to be. Remove his vote. Return Representative Terzich and Representative Lee Preston to the Roll."
"No further questions." 116 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Representative Krska. Representative Bob Krska has returned the the chamber. Return his vote. On this question there are 60 voting 'aye', 47 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. House Bill... House Bill... .. Well, Representative Ronan has returned to the chamber. Return him to the Roll Call. On this question there are 61 voting 'aye', 47 voting 'no', 2 voting present. House Bill 3573, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3584, Representative Wojcik. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3584, a Sill for an Act to amend an Act to revise the law in relationship to clerks of the court. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Wojcik."
"Yes, Madam Speaker and Members of the House. What the effect of this Bill does, it prescribes new fees to be charged by Circuit Court clerks in all counties outside of Cook Counties. in certain cases. There are... in regard to court appeals where original documents are forwarded containing over 200 pages there would be an additional fee of 10 cents per page for every page over 200. Currently the basic fee where the documents total over 100 pages is a flat fee of 60 dollars. There's also additional fees that would be charges which would be, correction of cases at the fee of 10 dollars, for a record search four dollars, printed output two dollars, alias summons two dollars, an expungment of records 15 dollars. This is a proposal from the circuit court clerks who want to be compensated for their efforts and I move its favorable passage."
"The Lady has moved the passage of House Bill 3584. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, Shall House Bill 3584 pass? All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. The voting is 117 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 98 voting 'aye', 9 voting 'no'. House Bill 3584, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3585, Representative Countryman. Representative Countryman. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? Out of the record. House Bill 3590, Representative Kirkland. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
Clerk Leone" "House Bill 3590, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Kane, Representative Countryman. I'm sorry, Representative Kirkland."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I ask leave of the Body to return the Bill to Second Reading."
"The Gentleman requests leave to return the Bill to the Order of Second Reading for purposes of Amendment. Is... leave... is leave granted? Leave is granted. The Bill will return to the Order of Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3590. On the Order of Second Reading, next Amendment is Floor Amendment #7, offered by Representative Ryder. House Bill 3590, next Amendment is Floor Amendment #7."
"While... Have any Motions been filed?"
"No Motions filed."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #7, offered by Representative Ryder."
"The Gentleman from Morgan, Representative Ryder, on Amendment 7." 118 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amendment 7 directs the Illinois Department of Public Aid to prepare a child support enforcement amnesty program which would be only subject to each individual county's state's attorney for implementation."
"The Gentleman has moved the adoption of Amendment #7. On that is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."
"Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"This would have the effect of prohibiting criminal prosecution? Is that correct?"
"I'm sorry, Representative, I didn't hear you."
"Would this prohibit the state's attorney from bringing criminal prosecutions?"
"No, the state's attorney is the final authority. The Department is to bring... to create a program and then to... it's subject to each state's attorney making a determination whether that program is to be used or not. In the event that the state's attorney wishes to use that program and wishes to offer the amnesty, then the criminal portion would be deleted in the event that the person came within the necessary time and met the necessary requirements and paid the money. So, that in the event the state's attorney indicated that he wished rules on this to be of such an effect that..."
"Have you heard from... What is the position of the state's attorneys on this particular Amendment? Do you know?"
"The state's attorneys have not contacted me on this Amendment and its been on the floor for several days."
"Well, of course, state's attorneys right now have the discretion to decide whether to prosecute for criminal 119 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 nonsupport, right?"
"Correct."
"So, that wouldn't change that, right?"
"Would not change that, that's right."
"Now, a person would be eligible for amnesty if they made a payment of the past due and owing obligations. Is that right?"
"That is the thrust of the Bill. That is correct. I would also assume that we would wish to make other rules and regulations so that it would not be a situation in which someone could simply..."
"Well then what about page... what about line 16 where it talks about making arrangements for such payments?"
"I believe that those arrangements would include the necessary amount of funds if required to be paid during that time period, or if it's a negotiation situation in which they meet whatever rules and regulations and hope that the Department of Public Aid would take your comments under concern."
"Okay, here's my point. This is what doesn't make sense to me. The amnesty... I'm reading from your Amendment, The amnesty program shall provide that upon payment of past due and owing child support obligations then, and only then the obligor shall not be criminally prosecuted for nonpayment of child support obligations, if arrangements for such payments are made during the period of sixty days after the effective date of the program. So, it in one part of the sentence it says you're eligible if you pay all your past due obligations, then you're eligible for this amnesty program where you sit down and try to work out arrangements for payments. So, it seems to be contradictory."
"I understand the point and it is my intent that the sixty 120 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 days is the window during which that one can come forward and it may very well be that a person is not able to pay 100 percent or the negotiated amount during that time period. If those arrangements are made to the satisfaction of the state's attorney during that time period and the state's attorney is satisfied with those arrangements, which may call for some funds to be paid or may call for periodic payments in the future, then and only then would the amnesty be applied. It..."
"So, that the sentence should be reversed almost. That part of the sentence should be..."
"With your reading of the sentence I understand the way that you're saying it..."
"Is it irrational reading of the sentence?"
"I don't read it that way, but, I understand how you can read it that way."
"Okay, thank you."
"Is there further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Levin."
"Will the Gentleman yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"How many bad cases of child support are there currently in the state?"
"I have no idea of the number, except to say that I am sure they are in the thousands."
"Okay, and this would affect only the criminal prosecution portion. It would not affect whether or not civilly the money was owed?"
"Correct. That's the reason the state's attorney is involved."
"How many... Do you know how many prosecutions there have been under this statute in the last year or so?"
"Representative, I don't know numbers, but it would be my 121 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day estimate that the number of criminal May 22, 1936 prosecution for nonsupport is a very small percentage. I would guess less that 10 percent of all of those cases in which child support is an issue."
"Okay, and what is the motivation behind this legislation?"
"The motivation, and thank you for asking the question because I failed to mention that before. The motivation is to make attempts so that the money gets to the kids where it's needed to be for the support of the children. In the event that someone falls in arrears and becomes afraid or concerned of the court system and is threatened with these kinds of penalties then they're very reluctant to make any sorts of payments or any sorts of approaches. If we can give them an opportunity, an opportunity to come forth and do what in this situation would be the correct thing, then after that the opportuດ... they could take advantage of that opportunity simply by paying or making arrangements to pay the child support that they owe. And they would not have the fears of the criminal prosecution which in some cases, and I don't know the number of cases, but in some cases could be the reason that that is prohibitive of the situation."
"Okay. What if you made arrangements and the spouse then violated those arrangements, periodic payments to catch up and so on. they were suppose to pay •X amount* extra a month and they didn't do it. What happens?"
"In the event... First of all, I think the rules would have to be written up and the state's attorneys would have to be satisfied that the arrangements were satisfactory. Okay. In the event that those arrangements were made and subsequent that those arrangements were violated in some fashion, at that point I believe that you have a criminal 122 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 nonsupport action which would be capable of prosecution. So, this does not mean somebody gets off not only "freebee" for what ever has been done in the past, but gets a blanket of immunity for anything in the future. That is not the intent."
"So, the intention is not to immunize that person in that circumstances. If they violate the agreement they could then be prosecuted for the violation of that agreement."
"No. Yes, Yeah, in much... Representative, in much the same way that a tax amnesty program does not immunize you if you took advantage of the amnesty program to then be delinquent on paying your taxes in future years."
"Okay, one final question. Are there any standards as to what, you know, a reasonable arrangement is? It seems like... you know, you've got an interesting idea here. You know, I'm not opposed to it. But, I think that... I understand the genesis of it. I understand that your staff was attempting to come up initially with a bunch of... a number of harassing Amendments and initially... and then came up with some... in the process decent ideas."
"It just goes to show that sometimes we make some mistakes, I mean..."
"I noticed that this was filed to one of my Bills and which you never got to. But, you know, I think it does need some cleaning up in the Senate."
"I would... that is the reason, Representative, that we've asked the Department of Public Aid to draft those since they are the largest single source of people that are attempting to collect child support, and as you know, and with your support that has occurred. That's why we have asked them to draw those rules as to what is reasonable. They have the best experience in the State of Illinois in this issue, but also, the caveat that is placed in there 123 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 that says only with the cooperation of the local state's attorney۰ And it would be my hope and the law is certainly very clear that before this Bill could become effective in any particular county that the local state's attorney has to sign off on it as well and that state's attorney then has the ability to make those arrangements. I cannot tell you, nor is it intended to write into this Bill what would be a reasonable approach. Because I am certain that what would be reasonable in your home county may not be reasonable or workable in mine or vice versa."
"I would think that there... if I just could complete... I would think that some generalized standards at least some outside parameters would be necessary because I have a real problem giving unfeathered discretion in this type of situation."
"Is there any further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment 7 to House Bill 3590 be adopted?' All in favor vote 'aye", opposed vote "no". Voting is open. The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Fulton, Representative Homer, to explain his vote."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would commend the Sponsor for addressing a troublesome area. However, I certainly think the Amendment is not needed. The program is not needed. Currently state's attorneys are already empowered to use their prosecutorial discretion to determine which cases to prosecute and which cases not to prosecute. There is nothing to keep a state's attorney now from implementing amnesty program with regard to these matters. But, what the Sponsor's Bill would do would be to inject the Department of Public Aid into the process and have the Department of Public Aid dictate to state's attorneys the criteria under which an amnesty program would operate within that state's attorney's jurisdiction. So, I think 124 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the Bill is not needed. I applaud the Sponsor's efforts, but I think it is ill advised. Thank you."
"On Amendment #7 there are 60... Mr. Clerk, take the record. On Amendment #7 there are 64 voting 'aye', 25 voting *nay". The Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #8, offered by Representative Homer."
"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Fulton, Representative Homer on Amendment 8."
"Withdraw, please."
"Amendment 8 is withdrawn. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #9, offered by Representative Homer."
"The Gentleman from Fulton on Amendment 9."
"Withdraw."
"The Amendment is withdrawn. Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Representative Kirkland."
"I seek leave to have the Bill returned to Third Reading for a hearing. Immediate hearing."
"The Gentleman requests leave to return this Bill to the... Requests leave for immediate consideration of House Bill 3590 on Third Reading. On that is there any discussion? There being none. Leave is granted. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3590, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Kane, Representative Kirkland, on House Bill 3590."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. This Bill now has several aspects, but we'll take one at a time. The original Bill 125 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 amends the Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act in connection with... attorney's fees, the attorney's fee Section of that Act talking about awarding attorney's fees... on a discretionary basis and also when it is required in domestic relations cases and child support enforcement cases. The Bill... that portion of the Bill would allow prospective fees to be awarded in those instances, when there is a Motion and a hearing and there is consideration of the relative financial resources each of the parties has. And the idea of the Bill is to put the parties in parity. The wording of the statutory language would be, "To enable a party lacking sufficient financial resources to obtain or retain legal representation expected to be incurred by that party." That is after that Motion and hearing on... on financial resources and so forth. The purpose is to put the parties, as I said, in parity when they are not in parity and where one of the parties has a need to get into court, may not be able to get into court because she or he is either unable to retain an attorney, because, he or she doesn't have the necessary funds, or there are expensive costs to be incurred such as, to obtain expert witnesses in the case of trying to value a pension or something like that. There is disagreement among the five judicial districts... appellate districts in Illinois regarding whether perspective fees can be awarded but the second district where I am from had a case come down that interpreted the statute narrowly and said prospective fees couldn't be awarded. I would prefer the other interpretation and think this clarifies what is now a dispute between the five appellate districts."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3590. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 3590 pass?' 126 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 All in favor vote 'aye", opposed vote 'no". The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 102 voting 'aye', 5 voting 'no', and House Bill 3590, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. We will return to House Bill 3585, Representative Countryman, he was out of the chamber when we passed the Bill. On page seven of the Calendar, House Bill 3585. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3585, a Bill for an Act to amend certain Act in relationship to jurors. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from DeKalb, Representative Countryman."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3585 is a very simple Bill. A few years ago, the statute was amended to allow a juror list to be selected from the legal voters if a board desired or from the drivers license holders. And what's happened, in many of the counties where they've gone to do this, they found that they don't get enough names just from the legal voters or either the drivers license list. They want to use both of them in combination, and this Bill permits them to use both in combination, but there is a technical problem that comes about if you do that, and that is, if they use both of them together, sometimes there's duplication of the names. So, what this Bill adds is language that says that there... that if in compiling the jury list, the jury commissioners shall avoid duplication of names to the extent possible. That may mean that there may be a lot of John Smiths and they may not be able to eliminate all John Smiths when they, in essence, put both lists together. It's my opinion that juror lists should 127 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 come from lists other than voter registration lists and that is because I think people are discouraged from registering to vote, because they're fearful that they'll be called for jury duty. I think this Bill will encourage jury commissions to use the drivers license list, and I think that that's good and will encourage people to register to vote for other reasons. I believe it's a good Bill and I'd ask for your consideration."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3585. And on that, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."
"Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"
"He indicates he will."
"With regard to the language 'to the extent possible', the way the law reads right now, the jury commissioners shall avoid duplication of names. They're mandated right now to avoid duplication of names. Initial reading of this, I thought that this weakened that mandate. Could you explain what the purpose of this language is, to the extent possible?"
"What it means, and I tried to make that explanation a little bit in my opening comments, is that if they're using both lists, then to the extent that they possibly can show a John Doe at the same address, they should eliminate him; but, as you and I both know, there may be at a particular address two or three John Does, a John Doe, Sr., a John Doe, Jr., and so forth. What this says to the jury commissioners is that they do not have to be exact. If, in fact, they would put the names in more than once, it would just go into the pool more than once; and, for that reason as I've indicated to you privately, Representative Cullerton, some jury commissions are not using the drivers 128 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 license pool because they feel that the duty is a mandate and, by adding this language, they won't feel that and they'll use the drivers license list. So, it's only to avoid duplication if possible."
"Thank you."
"Is there further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from McDonough, Representative Slater."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Mr. Countryman, is this mandated that they, the circuit clerk, use the list from Secretary of State?"
"No. They may use one or the other are now under this Bill, or a combination of both. Under this Bill, adds the language 'or a combination of both'."
"Does the Secretary of State have the wherewithal to provide these lists to the jury commissioner?"
"That's my understanding."
"Have you checked with the Secretary to that effect?"
"No. I had a request from some people who work within the system in my district and they didn't seem to have any problem finding those lists from the Secretary of State for this purpose since it's under law."
"At the present time, are some jury commissioners using Secretary of State's list?"
"It's my understanding."
"Thank you very much."
"Is there further discussion? The Gentleman from Lee, Representative Olson."
"Would the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Representative Countryman, would you or have you given some thought to what you're doing in some districts, using 129 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 hunting and fishing licenses as well?"
"I didn't give any thought to hunting and fishing license, Representative Olson, but as a former circuit clerk, I'm certain that you have good ideas, and I'd be glad to work with you next year on a Bill of that nature."
"The fact of the matter is, in the 15th, up in Freeport, they do utilize that. You're looking to expand the pool so you don't have to come back to the same people as frequently."
"Well, I think that the pool should not be geared to the voter registration list, because I think many people don't register to vote for fear that they'll be called for jury duty. I don't think you're not going to get... you're going to get a drivers license because you want to drive a car, and you're not going to worry about being called to jury duty, and for that reason, I think that's a much better list to use than the voter registration."
"Is DeKalb Circuit Clerk supportive of your Bill?"
"All my circuit clerks support my Bills."
"Have you spoken to DeKalb Circuit Clerk about your Bill?"
"I don't believe I discussed it with her. No."
"Have you spoken with Representative Hasara about the Bill?"
"Yes, and she feels it's a fine Bill."
"Is Representative Hasara going to speak to the Bill?"
"That's up to her and the Speaker. I didn't think this was a controversial Bill, and we have a lot on the Calendar for the day, and I really think it's one we ought to just move on. I would hope you'd vote in favor of it, Representative Olson. As a former circuit clerk, I know you would favor this Bill."
"Madam Speaker, to the Bill. Representative Countryman has some very fine ideas. Anything we can do to make the 130 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 mandating of people to appear for a jury service and to expand the potential pool for the circuit clerks, would be advantageous. However, I'd like to hear Representative Hasara's report from Sangamon County."
"Is there further discussion? The Gentleman from Saline, Representative Phelps."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Representative Countryman, as you well know, the registration list can become obsolete or outdated very quickly. Those people who are, in moving their addresses, transferring. is there not a complication here that might show the registration list as an updated address whereas the Secretary of State's list of drivers license might show six months behind, how... is there a provision in this Act to get those duplications or I should say, inconsistencies worked out?"
"Well, I think we have to give the jury commissioners as much flexibility as we possibly can. The best list, in my opinion, for them to use, is the drivers license list because under the law, if you change your address, you should change your drivers license within 30 days. That's not always the case with voter registration, as you well know being a former county clerk in dealing with voter registration. If I felt we could do it in one felt swoop, I'd change it all from voter registration list to drivers license list and hunting and fishing list and so forth, but I think the best thing to do is move in that direction. And this Bill will encourage jury commissioners to use the drivers license list, and as we get more and more of them using those, I think we can eliminate the voter registration list, which is my ultimate goal. In the meantime, using the vote... this Bill will encourage using 131 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the drivers license list and that will do exactly what you want to do, and that will keep it more current."
"I rise in support of the Gentleman's Motion and urge your support."
"Thank you. Is there further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Parke."
"Thank you. I call for the question."
"The Gentleman has moved for the previous question. All in favor of the previous question say 'aye', opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The previous question is put. The Gentleman from DeKalb, to close."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I didn't want to duck Representative Olson's issue on the hunting license. I think this is a good Bill, and we ought to pass it out unanimously. Thank you very much."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3585. All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. The Chair recognizes the Lady from Lake, Representative Stern, to explain her vote."
"I had my question answered, Madam Speaker. Thank you."
"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 113 voting 'aye', none voting 'no'. House Bill 3585, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3596, Representative Hojcik. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3596, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act to revise the law in relation to clerks of courts. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Wojcik." 132 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Yes, Madam Speaker. In essence of a compromise, there is an Amendment being prepared and it has not been distributed yet, so I would appreciate it if you could call it in a few minutes."
"He'll take the Bill out of the record. House Bill... For what reason does the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Deleo, rise?"
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. A point of personal privilege, I'd like to take a moment to congratulate a Member on the other side of the aisle. It's her 15th anniversary of her 29th birthday. Representative Loleta Didrickson, happy birthday."
"Representative Wojcik, we have just been informed that the Amendment to which you refer has been printed and distributed. What is your pleasure?"
"I, then, would need a copy, because I don't have a copy."
"We're move... moving right along."
"Okay. Oh, thank you."
"House Bill..."
"Carol. Madam Speaker, I have it."
"House Bill 3596, Representative Wojcik."
"I would ask leave to take this back to Second Reading."
"The Lady requests leave to have this Bill returned to the Order of Second Reading for purposes of Amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"This Bill has been read a second time previously. Amendments #1 and 2 were withdrawn in Committee. Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Wojcik."
"Yes, Madam Speaker and Members of the House, what this Amendment does is it now allows the Bill to become permissive. It states that the fee can be up to $36, and 133 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1936 it also says that they must go to the county board and have the authority... or they shall... may go to the county board and ask for their permission. I move its favorable passage."
"The Lady has moved the adoption of Floor Amendment #3 to House Bill 3596. On that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is... I'm sorry. The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Macon, Representative Dunn."
"Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"
"She indicates she will."
"I'm not sure I heard correctly, the $36 fee for child support, are you saying that if this Amendment is adopted and becomes law, that it will be up to the respective county boards to impose that fee in an amount up to, but not to exceed $36?"
"Yes."
"Thank you."
"Representative Dunn. Is there further discussion? The Lady has moved the adoption of Floor Amendment #3. All in favor say 'aye', opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it. The Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. The Lady requests leave for immediate consideration of House Bill 3596. And on that, is there any discussion? Leave is granted. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3596, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act to revise the law in relation to clerks of courts. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Wojcik."
"Yes, Madam Speaker, this Bill provides for the fact that 134 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 you may charge a $36 fee up to $36, and that also, a separate fund shall be set aside for these fees and they shall be drawn out to cover expenses by the circuit clerk. I move for its favorable passage."
"The Lady has moved the passage of House Bill 3596. On that, is there any discussion? The Chair rec... Representative Dunn. The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"She indicates she will."
"The only question I have about this particular Bill is, as originally enacted, I believe the fees were to be put in the county general fund, and would then be made available, if necessary, by action of that board. And it is my understanding, Representative Wojcik, that now this is going to go into a special fund. I would like to know if there any particular compelling reasons for that to be done?"
"The fee was imposed for the purposes of supporting this program."
"Madam Speaker, I think one of the problems, having spent ten years on a county board and a former chairman of a county board, that often happens is that you can set up SO many separate funds and so many separate accounts that, in fact, you are increasing your audit cost and you are increasing your accounting cost and procedures. I intend to vote for the Bill. I do have some problems with constantly mandating separate funds to be set up, and I would also like to work with the Sponsor of this Bill to come back. I think this entire Bill needs some language, cleanup. For example, there is a question in my county that if the Judge..." 135 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986
"Representative Black, are you supporting the Bill or opposing the Bill?"
"I will support the Bill, but I definitely have some problems with it, Madam Speaker, and I would hope that the Sponsor might work with me on cleaning up some language in the future. Thank you."
"The Lady has moved... The Lady from Cook, to close."
"Yes, I think you have heard the debate. I also believe that the Amendment allows for an element of compromise, and I'm certainly open and receptive to any suggestions that you might have. Thank you."
"The Lady moves the passage of House Bill 3596. All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 113 voting 'aye', 3 voting 'no'. House Bill 3596, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. We will return to pick up one Bill on this Order of Call and one Bill previously, House Bill 3162, on the Order Local Gov... Local Administration, and then, House Bill 2529, on the Order of Administration of Justice. Representative Giorgi, on House Bill 3162."
"House Bill..."
"Madam Speaker, I'd like leave of the House to return 3162 back to the Order of Second Reading for the purpose of an Amendment, but I'd like to call the Bill up for Third after we adopt the Amendment."
"House Bill 3162, Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3162, a Bill for an Act relating to municipalities. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman asks leave to return the Bill to 136 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DЕЗАТЕ 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the Order of Second Reading for purposes of Amendment. leave granted? Leave is granted. Is The Bill has returned to the Order of Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3162, this 3ill has been read a second time previously. Floor Amendment Representative Giorgi." #6, offered by
"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Winnebago, on Amendment 6."
"Madam Speaker, Amendment 86 is the language that is necessary to provide for a referendum for the increase in the sales tax of a city of 100,000 or over that does not have home rule powers. I urge the adoption of the
Speaker Amendment."
"The Gentleman moves the adoption of Amendment 6. On that, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker.
"He indicates he will.
"Does your Amendment #6 Will the Sponsor yield?" now require a front door referendum?"
"Positively."
"And that deletes anything inconsistent with that in the earlier Amendments or Bill. Is that correct?"
"Yes, Sir, and I've cleared it with the legal staff on your side of the aisle a couple of hours ago."
"Thank you very much."
"Is there further discussion? The Gentleman moves the adoption of Floor Amendment 6. All in favor say 'aye", opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it. The Amendment is adopted. Further
"No further Amendments."
Speaker Braun: Amendments?" "Third Reading. The Gentleman has immediate consideration of House Bill 3162. requested On that, is 137 STATE OF ILLINOIS 94th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 there any discussion? All in favor say 'aye', opposed say 'nay". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes" have it. The Bill has returned to the Order... the Sill is on the Order of Third Reading, and Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3162, a Bill for an Act relating to municipalities. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Giorgi. Representative Giorgi."
"Madam Speaker, this is now a three part Bill. What it allows is it allows a city that does not have home rule powers in the 100,000 population range to levy a sales tax of a penny after a direct referendum. It allows the issuance of bonds mandated by the EPA, and it restores the language that was inadvertently taken out of the Public Act 84-163 that had to do with cities and villages that could levy a tax for emergency services. I think every Member is familiar with the Bill, and I urge support of this Bill."
"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 3162. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, all in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 75 voting 'aye", 34 voting 'no", 1 voting 'present'. House Bill 3162, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 25... I'm sorry. Representative... For what reason does the Gentleman from Winnebago rise?"
"I wonder, Madam Speaker, if I could have a one page memo from the red votes after tomorrow or the next day?"
"House Bill 2529, Representative Johnson. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 2529, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Criminal Code. Third Reading of the Bill." 138 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"The Chair recognizes May 22, 1986 the Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson, on House Bill 2529."
"In the course of discussion of Representative Young's Amendment yesterday, I think we addressed the substance of this Bill. It simply makes a petty offense for the first two offenses and then, a misdemeanor thereafter for a person who detains or conceals a child in violation of a child custody visitation court order and also creates certain affirmative defenses, namely, where tha child is endangered with eminent physical harm or that the action was taken with mutual consent of all the parties with visitation and custody rights. It simply brings some equity and fairness to the Code. And I would ask for approval of this Bill."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 2529. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, "Shall House 3ill 2529 pass?" I'm sorry. For what reason... The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman. Representative Bowman."
"Well, yes, Madam Speaker, I believe this is the... the Bill that we debated at length yesterday on Second Reading, and I wanted to rise in opposition. I did not want this Bill just to go sliding right by. This establishes some criminal penalties and my main concern is that these are misdemeanor penalties, or in case of first, second offense, even, merely petty offenses - and my concern is that it provides an easy opportunity for prosecutors to plea bargain a kidnap case down to a, you know, merely an unlawful interference with visitation rights. And it seems to me if we are really interested in protecting children from being kidnapped or taken unlawfully by noncustodial parents, then we ought not to provide an easy avenue to 139 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 plea bargain the case down. Prosecutors' offices are already clogged with other extremely serious criminal matters. They... they're having a hard time coping with the court calls that they now have, and I'm very concerned that they're just going to turn a deaf ear to cases like this or use it as a convenient out to plea bargain down a kipnap case. And I think that would be a real tragedy for the children concerned. This Bill will not do what it's intended to do, and I think you will regret your vote later, if you vote for this Bill. I urge defeat of the Bill."
"Is there further discussion? The Lady from Cook, Representative Parcells."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. I rise in support of this Bill. The State Police and the I-Search people are for this Bill, too. And, why, because the present system doesn't work very well. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a children's Bill. It is very easy for a custodial parent to cut off the noncustodial parent out of anger, or spite or to be vindictive. But who's the big loser? The child or the children. Under this Bill, a custodial parent would think twice before denying visitation for their own selfish satisfaction, when the parent realizes that to deny visitation could be a criminal offense. Every child has a right to the love and encouragement of two parents. No matter what the parents' difference might be, the child or children should not be sacrificed because the parents have decided to divorce. Under the present system, a noncustodial parent must hire a lawyer, file suit and wait for a court date. This could and sometimes does cost a lot of money and a lot of time. and time is of the essence because children grow up so quickly. And what if that parent doesn't have the money, 140 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 what is his recourse now? Just forget about the child? Who suffers from that, not only the parent, the child is the big loser. This Bill will allow the state's attorney to charge the custodial parent, if the charge is deemed appropriate, but if the state's attorney finds the charge inappropriate, the noncustodial parent still has the fall back position of the civil contempt remedy available to him or her, which is now in place. Ladies and Gentlemen, I have been there and I was the custodial parent. Fortunately, for my children, I resisted the great temptation to use my hurt feelings against my ex-husband by denying him visitation of our children through the use of flimsy excuses, and I was right. I watched my children thrive and flourish under the love and guidance of both of their parents, instead of the isolation and bitterness of being cut off from their father. My three children are grown now and they thank me often for not cutting them off from their father, whom they love, admire and need. On closing, I would like to remind you that this Bill will not end the remedies now available to noncustodial parents, it just adds a new low cost remedy. If it only helps a few children each year in this state, then it is worth your 'aye' vote to help those children to have the love, the guidance and the companionship of both of their parents. Thank you."
"There are a number of lights on this Bill. As such, we're going to go to use of the timer so as to expedite the process. The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Macon, Representative Dunn."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Briefly, I rise in opposition to this legislation. It seems to me that our state's attorneys have a lot to do already. They and the general public complain that they 141 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 are understaffed and unable to prosecute crimes, which in some people's eyes, may be more serious than that outlined by this legislation and; furthermore, as I understand this Bill, there is only a criminal act if the detaining or concealing of the child is done with the intent to deprive. This is an intent crime. Intent, in this area, will be awfully difficult to prove, particularly where the children are of a little bit older age, teenagers. The custodial parent is often very likely to say, 'I've done everything I can, but the children don't want to visit you." And then you have a stalemate and I think we just add to the confusion in this area. Our courts on the civil side have been doing the best they can with this remedy. We're getting in the middle of some terrible emotional involvement in families which are torn apart. And... there may be no good answer to this situation, but to make criminals out of people who are fighting over the right to see and visit with their children doesn't seem to me like to be a positive step, and I would urge a 'no" vote."
"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman Fulton, Representative Homer."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen. I rise in opposition to the Bill. I think we all need to recognize that there is a problem that develops in many divorces, especially those of us who have handled divorce cases as attorneys, and there are often arguments that develop between the custodial parent and the parent who wishes to exercise the rights of visitation. These problems, in fact, come up quite regularly. Seldom are the matters black and white. Seldom is it clear that one party is just arbitrarily and capriciously concealing a child just out of spite towards the other parent. Oftentimes, the reason that visitation is not permitted by the 142 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 custodial parent is because the last time that the child went with the other parent, there was a party or the child was not well provided for, not taken care of and; although, I recognize that there is an Amendment on the Bill that says there shall be an affirmative defense to a charge, that the custodial parent reasonably believed that there would be physical harm to the child, can you imagine the situation that we're going to be creating where we're going to allow a criminal charge to be lodged against that custodial parent and then have that custodial parent be required to defend themselves with an affirmative defense in a criminal trial that they believe... have reasonable belief that that... that the visiting parent was going to cause physical harm to the child? The problems are complex. There are problems in this area, but they don't belong in the criminal courts and believe me, police officers, state's attorneys and Judges who practice in the criminal courts do not need this type of civil matter brought before them, when the divorce was obtained in the civil courts by another Judge who had jurisdiction over the matter. The proper remedy is to go back to that Judge who gave the divorce, who has jurisdiction over the children and ask that Judge to impose sanctions, not to flood these matters in the police departments and in the criminal courts which are already over taxed and over burdened with serious offenses of murder, violent crimes, rapes and other serious matters that need their attention. So, although I commend the Sponsors for dealing with a problem area, I condemn the matter in which this Bill would address it. It would not alleviate problems, it would just over burden the criminal court system, and I would ask for your 'no' vote."
"Is there further discussion? Jefferson, Representative Hicks." The Gentleman from 143 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Thank you. Yes, Madam Speaker, a question of the Sponsor, please. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he'll yield."
"Last year, I had some legislation that dealt with the process of custodial rights of parents dealing basically with joint custody of children. Would this Bill, in anyway, have any affect upon that just... the joint custody procedure that Senator Kustra and I worked on last year or what would be the process by which... when you have joint custody, would it come into effect in this type of situation? Representative Johnson."
"Could I answer the question. No. It wouldn't directly impact on those, but it's certainly in keeping with that philosophy and it's in keeping with the effort that you made last year, which I supported, and which, I think, is a great idea, in that both parties ought to play an equal role or as nearly an equal role as possible in the upbringing of a child. This applies to cases where there is a custodial and a noncustodial parent and gives parity between those two people with respect to remedies in the law. So, while it doesn't directly impact on that... it could. Sure it could. Because you have situations even in joint custody where someone is given, whether it amounts to extended visitation as their, quote, 'joint custody', and when it's denied, then you'd have this additional remedy. And let me just point out, while I am supplementing your question, that what Representative Bowman says, is absolutely flat wrong. The criminal remedy is not the only remedy here. If the prosecutor's office is clogged, as they are in some cases, the civil contempt remedy in the underlying action is still available just like it is right now. So, all this does is create a cumulative remedy and put the parents on an equal footing." 144 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Thank you."
"Is there further discussion? May 22, 1986 The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Levin."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in opposition to this Bill. The genesis... my understanding of the genesis of this legislation was a problem of a former member of this Body, where his wife took the child to Switzerland. This legislation, I think, objectively, will have absolutely no effect on that kind of situation. It seems to me the solution to everything is not to criminalize it. I personally think that the proposal that Representative Young suggested yesterday makes an awful lot of sense. This is a problem. It does have to be dealt with and it seems to me that some procedure for expediting resolution of this kind of dispute in the courts is the proper way to go, not to criminalize every single dispute that happens to be a domestic controversy. The courts are crowded enough. The criminal courts are crowded enough, and I would urge a 'no' vote on this Bill."
"Is there further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Young."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I, too, rise in opposition to this Bill. One of the previous speaker says that this is a children's Bill. Well, it may be intended to be a children's Bill, but it certainly not going to do anything for the children. This is a very sensitive and touchy area and what this Bill would do, if it becomes law, is make this sensitive area more confusing than it's ever been before. First of all, besides putting the children, who are innocent, in the situation where their parents are at each other's throat again, it's also going to put them in criminal court, where 145 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the parents won't like to be, and certainly, the children will not like to be, in the average criminal court, on the average day with hundreds and hundreds of criminal cases. Secondly, it does not give the parents parity. What it does is it opens up the custodial parents to harassment from the noncustodial parent. All he has to do is go down, fill out a complaint and the custodial parent will wind up in criminal court. And lastly, on a point that has not been raised before, is, I think, the very worst part of this Bill, Representative Johnson indicated that all of the other options that have always been available will still be available. So, what we'll have is we'll have a situation where we can have an action in criminal court or we can have an action in civil court or maybe, we'll have two actions going at one time. One party go to criminal court today, the next party go to civil court tomorrow. You'll have one Judge entering one order, another Judge entering another order. This already very sensitive area will become one mass of confusion. I urge a 'no' vote."
"Is there further discussion? There being none, the Gentleman from Champaign, to close."
"Before I close... I guess I'm closing, so, in keeping with my closing, let me just point out a couple of arguments that were made by the opponents of this Bill that are just not the case. The first is, a suggestion that, as I said before, that the criminal courts are clogged and that we're creating an additional burden on the prosecutor. The fact of the matter is, there is still prosecutorial discretion available, if the prosecutor doesn't want to prosecute it or there aren't facts sufficient to support it or even if there are, there is still a remedy just as there is under current law through the civil contempt procedure in the underlying dissolution action. The other argument 146 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEЗАТЕ 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 that was made. I think, by Representative Bowman, and I don't really think he was serious about this, but I guess I'm going to have to presume that he was, is that prosecutors are going to bargain down, are going to plea bargain down kidnapping cases. Well, that's ridiculous, on its face, because this doesn't apply in those cases. There are criminal remedies when a noncustodial parent keeps visitation longer than they're supposed to and withholds custody from the custodial parent. They're guilty of kidnapping in this case. This is just the opposite. We're talking about a situation where a noncustodial party... parent is simply trying to exercise their right to visitation. So, his fears about plea bargaining down offenses simply aren't... they aren't there. It's just flat not the case. I really can't believe that some of the people who've opposed this Bill really oppose the Bill, because ase they're the same people that I look to on areas of extending parity and equal rights to people and particularly. to parents in the upbringing of a child. Apparently, what they want to say, and if you vote "no", this is what you're saying, 'It's alright to have criminal remedies, kidnapping and other remedies, when a custodial parent is denied his or her custody by the noncustodial parent in various forms.. That's a crime. It ought to be a crime. That's the law now. We accept that, but it's somehow okay and we ought not to extend the same remedies and: frankly. these are much lesser level of remedies because it's a petty offense on the first two offenses, which is fine only offense, and kidnapping is a felony. There's clearly a difference. But it's okay, I guess, they suggest, that someones visitation rights be violated and at the ability of both parents to share in the upbringing of a child be denied. This Bill is a modest, and frankly. in 147 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 some ways, watered down attempt - the best we can do, I guess - to establish the proposition that if someone, a custodial parent, takes off and goes to Asia and deliberately does that to withhold for five years the ability of a noncustodial parent to have their visitation rights that there ought to be a remedy over and above the civil contempt procedures. This is a reasonable, fair, equality Bill, and I would ask for your support."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 2529. All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. This is final action. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from Lee, Representative Olson."
"To explain my vote, Madam Speaker, Representative Johnson has put this in a good context. As an observer in the court system over a number of years, I think this is the remedy which would offer an answer to many problems which occur in the petty offense nature, with two following offenses, makes it very practical."
"The Chair recognizes the Lady from Kane, Representative Zwick."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I really think that Representative Johnson has hit on a point here. This Bill deals with an issue of parity and fairness. It was said in debate that oftentimes custodial parents will... or noncustodial parents will harass each other by using the children. Well, oftentimes, that works in reverse too. Oftentimes, the custodial parent will harass the noncustodial parent by denying them rights. None of us deny that that happens. However, I think that we should also give the noncustodial parent some remedy. Something that will say to that custodial parent, 'You cannot deny me my rights either. I have a right to see the child.' The 148 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 child has a right to see the noncustodial parent. It is unfair to say that there will not be a punishment of some kind. This gives a punishment. This puts it in a criminal court which is where it should be if you can't get your rights in another court. There has to be some place to appeal to."
"Representative Zwick."
"I would urge your support."
"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative O'Connell."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, to explain my vote, because we did consider this Bill in Judiciary Committee, and I did vote to recommend 'do passage'. At the time, there was quite of bit of discussion as to the amount of discretion that we were giving to the police officer who would have to implement the provisions of this Bill and at the time, I know the Sponsor was good enough to amend the Bill to provide for a notice to appear as opposed to the outright arrest. My understanding is that there was a further Amendment that was proposed yesterday and, unfortunately, I was off the floor of the House, that would have taken this out of the context of leaving all the discretion in the hands of that police officer. And because that Amendment was not adopted, I have to withdraw my support of this Bill at this time, although I do empathize and understand the concerns of the Sponsor."
"Is there further discussion? The Gentleman from Fulton, Representative Homer."
"Thank you. Madam Speaker. I would ask for a verification of the affirmative should this receive the requisite number of votes."
"Okay. Further discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken." 149 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEЗАТЕ 121st Legislative Day
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. May 22, 1986 I would encourage our friends to vote green on this. I think it's just simple justice. You know, the converse of the situation between the custodial parent and noncustodial parent is what we're talking about. It's a felony, if the custodial parent is deprived and it's no crime if the noncustodial parent is deprived. Simple justice requires that what is good for one is good for the other and especially when you have penalties of such a modest nature. The argument that this will be ineffective or imprudent because it'll clog up the court system just... just doesn't hold water. This is... this is seen as having a deterrent value, so that the behavior we seek to discourage, in fact, is discouraged. It's a crime not to wear your own seat belt in this state. It ought to be a crime to deprive the other spouse of visitation rights."
"Further discussion? There being none, Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 65 voting 'aye", 31 voting 'no'. Representative Homer has requested a verification of the affirmative vote. Proceed, Ar. Clerk, with the verification. Oh, I'm sorry. Representative Koehler, for what risen do you rise?"
"Leave to be verified, please."
"Representative Koehler asks leave to be verified. Are there any such... any other such requests? Representative McCracken asks leave. For what reason does Representative Johnson rise?"
"If there going to be a verification, I suppose we ought to poll the absentees."
"Yes, of course. Mr. Clerk, proceed with the Poll of the Absentees... the verification."
"Poll of those not voting. Alexander. Berrios. Flinn. And Klemm." 150 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Proceed with the poll." May 22, 1986
"Poll of the affirmative. Barger. Barnes. Black. Capparelli. Christensen. Churchill. Countryman. Cowlishaw. Daniels. Davis. Didrickson. Ewing. Farley. Dwight Friedrich. Giglio. Goforth. Hallock. Harris. Hartke. Hasara. Hastert. Hawkinson. Hensel. Hicks. Hoffman. Johnson. Keane. Kirkland. Koehler. Krska. Kubik. Kulas. Laurino. Hays. McAuliffe. McCracken. McMaster. Mulcahey. Nash. Olson. Panayotovich. Pangle. Parcells. Parke. B. Pedersen. Piel. Pullen. Rea. Richmond. Ronan. Ropp. Ryder. Slater. Stephens. Tate. Terzich. Tuerk. Van Duyne. Vinson. Wait. Weaver. Williamson. Wojcik. Wolf. And Zwick."
"Representative Hays has requested leave to be verified. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. Representative Kirkland requests leave to be verified. Leave is granted. Questions of the affirmative vote, Representative Homer."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Capparelli."
"Representative Capparelli. The Gentleman is in his chair."
"Representative Davis."
"Representative Davis. The Gentleman is in his chair."
"Representative Farley."
"Representative Farley. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? Do you wish to verify Representative Farley?"
"Representative who?"
"Farley."
"Is... where is he? Yes, I would like to remove Representative Farley from the Roll Call."
"Gentleman is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call." 151 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th SENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Representative Giglio."
"The Gentleman is in the chamber."
"Representative Hallock." May 22, 1986
"Representative Hallock. The Gentleman is in the chamber."
"Representative Hoffman."
"Representative Hoffman. Hoffman. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He appears not to be. Remove Homer. For what his vote. Excuse me, Representative reason does Representative Vinson rise?"
"Madam Speaker I would just like to point out that certainly the verification process is important, but rather traditionally around here, when it's clearly known that a Gentleman or a Lady is in the nurse's station, there's been a recognition of the fact that, at this stage in the Session, particularly, we ought to respect a little bit the health of our colleagues. And we have not verified people who are in the nurse's station consistently, and I just wondered if that courtesy could be extended to Mr. Farley."
"Thank you, Representative Vinson. Representative Hoffman has returned to the chamber. Continue... And would you return him to the Roll Call? Continue, Mr. Homer... Representative Homer."
"Representative Hallock."
"Representative Hallock. He's been verified. The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Flinn."
"Madam Speaker, I was not voting on this issue, but I would like to take Representative Farley's space... place. I vote 'aye'."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair votes 'aye'. Representative Daniels, for what reason do you rise?"
"Well, I was going to suggest that maybe somebody over there want... might want to do that, but as usual, Monroe 152 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 is a step ahead of all of us."
"Representative Berrios, for what reason... Representative Berrios votes 'aye'. Continue, Representative Homer."
"Representative Laurino."
"Representative Laurino. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? Yes, he's in his chair."
"Representative McMaster."
"Representative McMaster. The Gentleman is in his chair."
"Representative Nash."
"Representative Nash. The Gentleman is in his chair."
"Representative Slater."
"Representative Slater. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He appears not to be. Remove his vote."
"Representative Stange."
"Representative Stange. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He appears not to be. Remove his vote."
"Representative Piel."
"Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Representative Stange is in the chamber. I'm sorry, Representative Homer, what was the last name?"
"Piel. Representative Piel."
"Representative Piel. Is the Gentleman... Yes, the Gentleman is in the chamber."
"One moment. Madam Speaker, let me just clarify for the record that I thought the reference to Representative Farley being in the nurse's station was being made in jest. I'm now convinced, in fact, that is where Representative Farley actually is. Having been assured of that, I would ask, as the person who asked him to be removed, to have him restored to the Roll Call." 153 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 121st Legislative Day
"Does the Gentleman have leave to withdraw his challenge of Representative Farley's vote? Leave is granted. Return Representative Farley's vote to the Roll Call. Have you any further?"
"No further."
"No further questions. Mr. Clerk, take the rec... the Gentleman from Mautino, Representative Bureau. The Representative from Bureau, Representative Mautino, votes 'aye'. Representative Leverenz votes 'aye'. Any further changes? There being no further changes, Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this... Representative McGann votes 'aye'. Representative McGann. On this question there are 69 voting 'aye', 31 voting 'no', and House Bill 2529, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order... On page nine... page eight of the Calendar, Special Order of Call - Games of Chance. appears House Bill 3300, Representative Giglio. Representative Giglio. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3300, a Bill for an Act in relation to the Las Vegas night games. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Giglio."
"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 3300. It creates the Casino Night and Raffle Act. After, truthfully, many, many months of meetings with various organizations, staff from the House and from the Senate, police departments, people from the crime commission, this Bill was put together. What we tried to do was to make it as criminal... as free as possible. We didn't... we haven't got some of the provision that most of the large charitable organizations want, but it's a start. And I think the two important... two of the important factors and in this particular Bill, there is one coming 154 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 over from the Senate that was passed yesterday, one is the opt out provision by a... the local municipality or county and the other is the sunset provision which is in June of 1988. Some of the, if I may have your attention, some of the provisions I'd like to talk about will probably relieve some of your minds and maybe there won't be as many questions. If there are, I'd be happy to answer. However, the license fee is just $200. In this Bill, one percent of the gross fees are taken off and half a percent stays with the state and the other half goes back to the local municipalities. This Bill entitles the organization who will only be those that have the 501 C status from the Internal Revenue Department. That does not allow some of the people that would like to participate, but, like I said before, after two years, hopefully this passes and gets started, we can come back and do something else. Another provision is that no more than four days within a twelve month period can an organization conduct a Las Vegas night. The... some of the things that are also conducted at these games will be the pull tabs at the place. Chips are used. It's... another is that the facility can be used only four times. What we're trying to do is avoid some of these huge halls to become gambling palaces, like some of the bingos have, truthfully. The background checks, we did that Amendment yesterday, on those that have been convicted of a crime after ten years, they can come back. Poker... poker, you can't play poker against one another, you play with the house. Another important provision is with this Bill is that you only could win prizes. There is no cash in this, and the maximum bet is five dollars. These are some of the highlights. If there are any questions, I'd be happy to answer any questions, Madam Speaker."
"The Gentleman moves the passage of House Bill 155 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 3300. On that, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Representative Giglio, under your proposal, who would issue the licenses and who would be the regulating agency? Would that be the local governmental agency or would it be a state organization which would be established by this legislation?"
"The Department of Revenue issues the license and the agency... to watch the games will be the state and the local."
"Alright, what input does local government have as it pertains to control of the individual nights?"
"They... they... With this Bill, they could, by an ordinance at the city council level... to use the city council, they could bar the games completely. They don't have to. That's the opt out provision."
"It's not my intention to bar the games. I'm rather supportive of the proposal; but, what I'd like to see is that local permits authorization be obtained because local government would have a better knowledge of the individual who is applying after they had received the Department of Revenue authorization or the registration and regulation provisions. They have... I think they have... they know better who those individual groups are, et cetera, as opposed to the state. Is that possible in this legislation?"
"Well, I think one of the reasons for this is; number one, that's why the people with the 501 C tax status are the only ones that could run it, and we thought that we would run into a lot more trouble if the state did not 156 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 regulate it, rather than the local municipalities because they'd fear... the fear was, at that time when we heard the testimony, that they'd become so-called gambling palaces and casinos, which we did not want."
"What organizations have 501 C classifications?"
"Well, most of the non-for-profit, the church organizations, the ones... 501 C applies exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing, literary, educational, national... international, sport competition. those are the ones that have it. The veteran organizations, fraternal union, youth, no. They don't have the 501 C from the Federal Government. They cannot participate. They cannot get a license to conduct the game."
"Thank you."
"Further questions, Madam Speaker?"
"Is there further discussion? There being none, the Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 3300. All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. Have all voted who wish? For what reason does Representative Barger rise? Representative Barger votes... changes his vote from 'no' to 'aye'. Are there further changes? Representative Hastert changes his vote from 'aye', to 'no'. On this question there are 80... Representative McGann."
"I change my vote from 'no' to 'aye'."
"Representative McGann changes his vote from 'no' to 'aye'. On this question there are 8... Representative Turner. Representative Turner votes 'aye'. Are there any further changes? On this question there are 34 voting 'aye', 27 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. House Bill 157 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 3300, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Greiman in the Chair."
"Mr. Leverenz, for what purpose..."
"Inquiry."
"Yes, for what purpose..."
"Just an inquiry of the Chair. Now?"
"Mr. Leverenz, we tell you later on. Alright. We are on the Order of Special Order - Games of Chance, Third Reading. And on that Order appears House Bill 3518. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3518, a Bill for an Act to amend certain Acts in relation to horse racing. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. At the outset, I'd like to ask that Representative Kubik close on this Bill. He is a Cosponsor... a hyphenated Cosponsor with me. This Bill is the product of extensive hearings conducted by a Special Horse Racing Investigative Committee. We've conducted four hearings in Chicago in the early part of this year and on another occasion, went to a race track and observed the conditions at the race track. As a result, we issued our report and also recommended passage of this Bill. This Bill was passed unanimously in our Committee. And I'll tell you it basically has three main provisions. Number one, with regard to the issue of security barns, we are going to require, or actually, we should say, authorize the Racing Board to require that security barns be constructed and that all horses, who are to race, be taken to that security barn and detained there up to five hours prior to a race. There also will be, we are told by the Racing 158 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Board, a prerace testing of all those horses by taking a blood sample. The reason why there has to be a security detention barn is to ensure that once those horses are tested for illegal drugs, that someone could not come in and inject those horses after they were tested. In order to pay for the cost of these security barns, we are doing two things; we are abolishing the Race Track Improvement Fund, which was a suggestion, primarily of Representative Vinson, and we're allowing the race track operators to retain the breakage which they now... half of which now goes to this Race Track Improvement Fund, we're allowing them to retain it and we're increasing from one half to two-thirds the amount of the breakage that will be available for race track improvements. And we're saying that these race track operators will determine for themselves, without getting Racing Board approval, of what they should build or how they should improve their tracks, but they will be responsible for paying for these security stalls. And finally, I would indicate that as a result of our investigations, we determined that there were allegations that parimutuel clerks had been, some parimutuel clerks, had been involved in the issue, such things as touting, that is giving advice on what horses to bet on for money, refusing to pay back all of the change that was entitled to the customers, and most importantly, we determined that the union contract that they have with the track owners, which provides for certain disciplinary measures, only last as long as a meet. It doesn't last, for example, over the course of a year, SO that if a person, a parimutuel clerk was... did something that was in violation of the contract, the work rules, and it was the last day of a meet, he or she could not be disciplined because the meet was over. And so, that person could, 159 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 then, go to another track the next day and there would be no way to keep that person from being employed there. So, we are authorizing the Racing Board, in giving them authority that they have had up until just recently, to license parimutuel clerks. It doesn't require it, but it gives the Board discretion to decide whether or not they wish to require it. This is a needed reform of the racing industry. There have been reports in the media that horses have been running races with illegal drugs, that parimutuel clerks have been shortchanging customers, and it has led to, perhaps, a bad image of the industry and; as a result, there has been less activity at race tracks, there's been a lowering of the money that the state is taking in through the handle, and this Bill will go a long way towards restoring the confidence in this industry. The issue of the detention barns is a controversial one. Some of the horse owners say that their horses are too sensitive to be put into a detention stall. I will tell you that there are seven states right now that require detention... separate detention stalls for horses who have to take an anti bleeder medication called Lasix. So, there is precedent, but I would say that we would be the leading state in terms of the integrity of horse racing, if we would require these detention barns and prerace testing as we will be doing with this Bill. This was a bipartisan effort of the Members of the Committee, this product which is encompassed In House Bill 3518. I'd be happy to answer any questions, and I would encourage your support."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton, moves for the passage of House Bill 3518. And on that, the Gentleman from Dewitt, Mr. Vinson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Assembly. The expose which led into the investigation of 160 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 horse racing in Illinois was instructive and so was the testimony before the Special Committee. I might point out that there was testimony that on one particular race card, where multiple races were run on a given day, three different horses in three different races owned by three different owners and trained by three different trainers were drugged with the same designer drug. What that indicated was a clear effort to try to fix the daily trifecta. In another situation, a drugged horse, which had an accident in a race, caused injuries to several other horses in a race. Numerous examples abound of illegal drugs being used on horses in Illinois and, oftentimes, the drugs, because they are designer drugs designed for the purpose of defying easy analysis and easy discovery, oftentimes. those designer drugs aren't discovered for years after the race. Now, we can discover them years after because we retain the samples and continue testing the blood or urine. Those accidents, those druggings, those attempts to fix gimmick bets in trifectas and individual races, clearly demonstrated the need for reform in our judgement. We also discovered, as was pointed out in the expose on Chicago television, that parimutuel clerks had been involved in tauting horses, in skimming money and in stealing money from patrons at the track. In one particular instance, a gentleman was fired for these things at five... four different tracks over a period of time, but he always shows up again at another track and he always shows up again at another track because of the nature of this particular union contract. I have no problems with unions and I have no problems with union contracts, but where the union contract is designed in such a fashion as to keep a thief on the payroll, there is something wrong. Some people say that there is a constant conflict between 161 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the objective of good racing in Illinois and the objective of honest racing in Illinois. I don't believe in what the House Committee demonstrated by putting this Bill on the floor is, that you cannot have good racing in Illinois, unless it's also honest, and that's what a vote for this Bill will demonstrate. I urge an 'aye vote."
"The Gentleman from Bureau, Mr. Mautino."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"
"Indicates he'll yield for questions?"
"Representative Cullerton, I noticed you made reference to the breakage. If I remember correctly, the current formula for the breakage is a 50/50 split between the state and the track for improvements. And in your legislation, I think you're recommending that the breakage... no longer does that 50% comes to the state, but it will go directly 100% to the tracks. Is that correct?"
"No. Let me explain it. First of all, the breakage is the money which is left over when they divide up the odds on a horse race, it's winning bettors' money, and it totals about $9,000,000 a year. That's what breakage is."
"I know what it is."
"The way it works right now..."
"I know what it is."
"I know... well, you know that, but I'm helping other people that may not know it. The way it works right now is 50% of it goes to a Race Track Improvement Fund and the other 50% goes to the General Revenue Fund. What we're saying with this Bill is that we're going to put less money into the General Revenue Fund."
"How much less?"
"I would estimate it to be about a million and a half dollars, and more money will be made available to the race tracks, because we are imposing on them the obligation of 162 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 paying for these new security barns. The theory is winning bettors at the track should be the ones to subsidize the integrity of the sport by having them pay for the new security barns."
"Well, I personally have a problem with redesignating the breakage that has, by past history, always come to the State of Illinois. I can see no real rational reason where the tracks should be the recipients and the state should be the loser of a... of the breakage provisions. I think that's about 16,000,000 a year or 18, isn't it? What's the number?"
"No, it's 9,000,000 total is breakage, and so, four and a half has been going to the state... the state will... the General Revenue Fund. Under this proposal, they'll probably get about $3,000,000. I would point out to you that the Governor's proposal is to take all the breakage and give it back to the tracks. I'm not proposing that."
"I am not in favor of the proposal that would provide for a 100% of the breakage, because I think that's what Arlington Park wanted in their last provisions last Session. I got a... one question in that same regard is that... you must be setting up a formula, then, for the state's portion of the breakage, if that's..."
"One-third."
"One-third of..."
"Right."
"...The 50% that priorly..."
"No. No. One-third of the total breakage..."
"One-third of the total breakage."
"... goes to the state."
"Alright, my question is, if the Improvement Fund receives - which will now receive about seven and a half million dollars, correct?" 163 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"It won't be a Fund. We abolished the Race Track Improvement Fund. We let the tracks retain that breakage on a percentage basis. Any breakage that was earned at their track, they get to retain."
"Not for the improvement of the track but goes into their overall cash flow production, is that right?"
"Well, that's true, but there won't be any Race Track Improvement Fund for them to go to to get money to improve their track, so they'll, in many cases, use it to improve the track, but the main reason for the change is so that because we're imposing on them the obligation of paying for these new security barns, we think that somehow it has to be paid, and the person who is going to pay for it are the winning bettors, and that's what breakage money is all about. It's not a tax on anybody other than winning bettors."
"I understand that. I guess my question might be then, maybe, we should take this back and consider an Amendment to, and I have to oppose a Bill that I passed a few years ago that allowed for Lasix and drugs to be used in those race horses. Maybe if we eliminate all total drugs, you wouldn't have to worry about the cost of the security barns or the individuals who are involved. It just seems to me rather folly that we're going to give them the breakage that belongs to the State of Illinois, by past history, for a better increment in their bottom line profit structure with having no provisions for really track improvement. Isn't that the case?"
"We're giving them more money because we're imposing on them a new obligation to build a security barn. Even if we eliminated all drugs for horses, we'd have to have some way to enforce that provision and that's what the security detention barns are all about. It's saying that they're 164 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 going to be locked up five hours before a race so nobody can get to them, and that's the... the crux of the reform measure that's in this Bill. Now, maybe, you object to the fact that we're going to have to give them some money to pay for it, but that's what the decision was in the Committee and that's what the Bill does. It... but it doesn't, you know, tax people other than those who are at the track and who have won on a bet."
"Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. DeJaegher."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the General Assembly. I would like to personally commend those that had a part in this particular Bill in the drafting of this Bill. First and foremost, I think we must all realize, of course, that the horse racing industry in the State of Illinois is one our largest employers, one of our largest employers. The restrictions that John has asked for are very minute. I don't feel that there is anything wrong with those remarks or items that John Cullerton has asked to be imposed in this particular Bill. The State of Illinois at one time was recognized as a leader in the racing industry. That particular position is in jeopardy. I think that all of us realize at this time, since the advent of lottery in the State of Illinois, racing income has declined. Racing is not the sport that it was once, and I think what's happened because there are problems in the racing industry. This Act will clarify and clean up the problems that we have with the racing industry. What we're saying to the racing industry in total is this, 'We are receptive to you. We want you to continue in this endeavor. All we're asking you for is a few minor concessions, so that when people go to these race tracks to participate and to wager and seek enjoyment, that they know 165 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 that they're going to get an honest show for their money." I see nothing wrong with this Bill. And for all of those, and agriculture and all those people that derive an income from racing, hopefully that you'll be supportive of this Bill."
"The Gentleman from McLean, Mr. Ropp."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield, please?"
"Indicates he'll yield for questions."
"In regards to your Bill here, it... there is some indication that you now will attempt to license all people involved at the track. Does this include, for example, the rest room attendant, the people who might be caring... caretakers of the barn and if so, why?"
"Mr. Cullerton. Turn on Mr. Cullerton."
"Yes. Let me explain to you what the law is right now. I'll read it to you. *The Eoard, that is the Racing Board. 'shall, in its discretion, issue licenses to horse owners, trainers, harness drivers, jockeys, agents, apprentices, grooms, stable foremen, exercise persons, veterinarians, valets, blacksmiths, concessionaires, and others designated by the Board whose work in whole or in part is conducted upon race track grounds within the state, which are owned by race track organizations." That's the law right now. A couple of years ago, we passed a Bill that said the Board shall not license se parimutuel clerks, parking attendants, security guards and employees of concessionaires. What this Bill does is to eliminate that language that I just read, so as to give discretion back to the Racing Board to determine, at their discretion, who should be licensed and who shouldn't."
"Okay. Good. The next question relative to... in our analysis it says that horses shall be detained even though who are bleeders... Is there any provision..." 166 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986
"I'm sorry. Even though what?"
"It says here, 'even though they're bleeders, they shall be detained.' I thought they would all be detained..."
"Right. That's right. They had to amend it in two different Sections, but the operative language is every horse entered to race shall be placed in a facility designated by the Board as a security barn for a period of up to five hours. The security barn shall be under the supervision of the Illinois Racing Board. That's all horses, and we are told from the Racing Board that they will initiate a prerace blood testing program, and that is in conjunction with this security barn. So, they'll be tested, they'll be kept in the barn, no one will have access to them or if they do, they'll be supervised and; as a result, will know that there is no foreign substance injected into the horse prior to the race."
"Okay. A couple of years ago when most of this was law and there was a Bill to do away with the detention system, has that been resolved with the owners of horses..."
"That dealt with the issue of Lasix and; for a while, we had a requirement that if a horse obtained this anti bleeding drug, which some have alleged mask the presence of other drugs, that for a certain point of time - first of all, it was legalized, and then, the horses were required to be in a separate detention stall. We, then, reversed ourselves and abolished that so that now horses that receive Lasix receive it under the supervision, and there is a little sign that they hang on their, whatever stall that the horse is in, and they hang the sign on there and say, 'This is a Lasix stall.' But, there is no separate detention stall as we use to require."
"Okay. In other words. I think this is really a better provision than we had before and certainly want to support 167 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Can you you and the Committee that did this investigation. answer one final question? Is... Are these same provisions comparable to those that will be used at the Kentucky Derby, Belmont and the Preakness?" Cullerton: in. "It really depends on what state those horses are run I'm not familiar with... I don't believe that New York or Kentucky have detention barns. They do have it in seven states, including New Jersey, which is the largest state that has it. So, I don't believe that they have these detention barns in those other... in those races. But they would, of course, in Illinois, if this is passed."
"Okay, thank you. I support the Bill."
"The Lady from Champaign, Ms. Satterthwaite."
"Will the Sponsor yield for a question? Representative..."
"Indicates that he will."
"... Cullerton, as I read the Bill, if the horse is a bleeder, they now are required to De in the security... or under this Bill, would be required to be in the security area at least four hours prior to the race and there is another provision for horses arriving at the racing facility from stables off the grounds at least six hours before, and yet we have a five hour limitation. I'm not sure how those times all fit together. There appears to be no minimum time other than for the ones coming from off the grounds, that they be in the security barn. And I really don't understand how we can have those coming from off the grounds at least six hours prior to the posting time going into the security barn when we have a five hour limitation later in the Bill."
"Well, the six hour reference... you are making reference to existing law. What the five hour... five hours refers to is the amount of time that horses have to 168 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 be in the security... that all horses have to be in the security barn before a race. The reason why we picked five hours is because the Racing Board said that's how much time it would take to test all the horses and to get the results. The six hour reference that you are making deals specifically with horses that are on a bleeder list, which are the horses that would undoubtedly be the ones that would receive the Lasix. I don't think it's inconsistent. We are talking about..."
"So, we're assuming then that for the bleeders there would be an exception to the five hour limitation if they were coming from a stable off the grounds?"
"If you give me a second, I'll read the current law and determine whether that statement is correct. As... No, as I understand it, a horse on the bleeder list which is not stabled on the grounds, has to be brought to the race track six hours prior to the post time for the race in which it's going to run."
"But, then later it says, 'Such a horse, arriving at the racing facility, will be placed in a security barn stall assigned by one of the state veterinarians, and that would assume that it has to be there at least six hours."
"Okay, and if he is, that means that the bleeders would have to be there six hours and the..."
"Okay, so I'm saying then in the following paragraph where you are referring to a five hour limitation, that would be for horses that were not on the bleeder list?"
"Yes."
"Even though it's not stated in that paragraph as such?"
"Right, the bleeders would have to be in there six hours, the non-bleeders five hours." 169 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Hay 22, 1986
"Is there any place in the law currently or in the new Bill that specifies a minimum amount of time that a horse would have to be in the security area?"
"No, because the Racing Board felt that up to five hours... they will prescribe by rule five hours."
"But could the Racing Board decide that they only needed to be there five minutes?"
"If they felt that they could... if they developed their test such that they could do these pre-race testing and get the results quickly enough, then you wouldn't have to take the test so much time before the race."
"My concern would be if there was a very short period of retention time, whether the horse could be drugged, brought in for that short retention time, have the blood test taken before the drug may have gotten into the blood stream?"
"I don't believe that that's something to worry about, but that's... we can't determine that in the Bill. I don't think we should determine that in the Bill. We give the Racing Board its discretion to determine."
"We assume, in this case, that the Racing Board is trying to protect the race and make it all on the up and up."
"We have... and we do have one of the finest labs in the nation, run by Dr. MacDonald, and he is the leading..."
"Well, it's not the lab I'm questioning. It's the decision of the Racing Board."
"Well, the Racing Board is working with the lab to determine how much time they have to keep a horse in a detention barn prior to the race. They have asked for five hours, the authority to be up to five hours."
"And I'm hoping, with you, I think that we don't subvert that by making it so short that the test would be 170 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day invalid."
May 22, 1986 "Gentleman from Marion, Mr. Friedrich."
"Would the Sponsor yield?"
"Indicates he'll yield for questions."
"I was around here when the parimutuel law was passed and we had a lot more farmers then and the farmers went along with these city boys to allow it to pass because of the Agricultural Premium Fund. And I'm concerned because we have a lot of county fairs in real trouble. If we... We've done it for civic centers and everything else. If we keep on raping that fund, we'll have a lot of county fairs out of business, and I want to know just exactly how this affects the Agriculture Premium Fund."
"Okay, this... That's a very good point. This Bill does not affect the Agricultural Premium Fund. The Governor has suggested that the parimutuel tax be lowered and that will affect the Agricultural Premium Fund to the tune of about $32,000,000 less going into it. But that's the Governor's proposal, not in this Bill. This Bill only talks about breakage. The only thing that deals with money in this Bill is the issue of breakage and breakage, half of the breakage now goes into the General Revenue Fund. And we are taking a little bit of that money, making it available for the building of these security barns. It does not affect the Agricultural Premium Fund."
"Thank you. We don't need any more problems there."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Flinn."
"Mr. Speaker, let's stop horsing around. I move the previous question."
"Gentleman from St. Clair moves that the previous question be put. Those in favor say 'aye', those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The previous question be put. Mr. Cullerton, to 171 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 briefly close. Mr. Kubik, to close."
"Thank you. Mr. Speaker. I proudly rise as a Cosponsor of this legislation. As you can see, there is some discussion on this legislation and I would like to let the Members know this was a... an extremely thorough investigation. We had a number of meetings and we went out to the track. We listened to over 40 different witnesses, everything from veterinarians to track owners, to trainers, to horsemen, all segments of the industry were involved in this investigation and these hearings. And the bottom line on it all is, to be very brief because I think we have covered this Bill very extensively, the bottom line is if the public policy of this state is to condone and have a gambling game such as horse racing or lottery, for example, but if the public policy is to have that kind of gaming interest, then it is the top priority of this Legislature and this government to make sure that those games are clean and fair. That's the bottom line, revenue aside, all the other points aside. The bottom line is to make it clean and fair and that's what this legislation will do. That's what this legislation, this package of legislation was designed to do and I would urge your 'aye' vote."
"Question is, "Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote "no". Voting is now open. Mr. Giorgi, the Gentleman from Winnebago, to explain his vote."
"Mr. Speaker, I think it's about time in our history that the record should show that every statement made here is not authentic. But in explaining my vote, I'd like Representative Vinson to tell us what happened to those three drugged horses? Did they win the trifecta? Did they win the daily double or what happened to those three drugged horses, Sam?" 172 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Have all voted who wish? Have... Mr. Vinson, you spoke in debate."
"I was just going to answer Mr. Giorgi's question."
"Quickly. Quickly."
"The first horse, in the first race, that was drugged, won the race. The horse in the second race started biting the trainer and the jockey and was scratched from the card. They had given it too much of the drug. The horse in the third race, the same thing happened with. It bit the horse and the jockey, as... or the other horses and the jockey. as well, and it was scratched. So, they failed, but they tried."
"Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 106 voting 'aye', 3 voting 'no', 7 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page eight of the Calendar, Special Order of Business - Public Finance, appears House Bill 1442. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 14..."
"Excuse me. Excuse me. Mr. Young, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"
"Thank you, Madam... Mr. Chairman. I would move that we recommit House Bill 3344 to the House Revenue Committee for further hearings this summer on Interim Study. The City of Chicago has exhausted the limits of its home rule taxing power and it must seek alternatives. There is too strong a reliance on sales and utility taxes, which place a disproportionate burden on lower income city residents. The ever-increasing demand on property taxes has been too much of a burden on homeowners and apartment dwellers. The business community, as exemplified by Barry Sullivan, Chairman of First Chicago Banks, wants to enter in dialogue with the City on its long-range tax problems. Sam 173 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Mitchell, Director of the Chicago Commerce... the Chicago Association of Commerce and Industry, has indicated he would be interested in a summer summit on City finances. For those reasons, and others, I move to place this Bill in Interim Study."
"Gentleman asks leave of the House to place House Bill... what is it, 3342, is that... 3244... 3344 on the Interim Study Calendar of the Committee on Revenue. Gentleman has leave. I would advise the Members that there are forms in which they can commit their Bill into the Interim Study Calendar of their respective Committees. And now, on the Order of Public Finance, appears House Bill 1442. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 1442, a Bill for an Act in relation to revenue sharing. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Lady from Cook, Ms. Braun."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 1442 changes the revenue sharing formula for the Local Government Distributive Fund from 1/12 to 1/10. It will help cities and counties across the state to cope with federal... with cutbacks at the federal level and provides for a progressive tax distribution system to help avoid property tax increases which are less progressive. The formula works on a per capita distributive basis and every county in the city will benefit. I encourage your support for this legislation."
"The Lady from Cook, Ms. Braun, moves for the passage of House Bill 1442. And on that, the Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Churchill."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Lady yield?"
"Indicates she'll yield for question."
"Representative, then this transfers an additional amount of money from the State of Illinois to local 174 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE governments, is that correct?" May 22, 1986
"That's correct."
"And what local governments receive those funds?"
"All local... all counties and cities in the state."
"And do you have any idea on how much money this would be?"
"It's estimate... there are a couple of estimates, but the general... $57,000,000." generally accepted estimate is about
"So in other words, what tranferring $57,000,000 of state governments in this Bill?"
"It is we are doing is we are dollars to the local essentially a shifting that will allow for some property tax relief on the local level. The state stands to benefit from a... really changes in the federal tax laws. The changes having to do with the IRA deductions, the changes having to do with accelerated depreciation and the like, will provide arguably a windfall to the state. All this does is allow for some of that windfall to be recaptured at the local level. I would... I would call your attention, Representative Churchill, to an article in Crane's_Chicago_Business this last week that talked about this shift and talked about the general shift and how the local governments could use this kind of relief." Churchill:
"Okay, you are talking about the shift on the present Bill that's in the... just come out from the... it's still in the Senate, I believe." "Right, that's right."
"So, in other words, that has not passed Congress. We don't know whether it will pass Congress. We don't know in representing what form it will pass Congress and you are that this Bill is based on what you think is going to come out of Congress?" 175 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"No, Sir. No, Sir. This 3ill is based on state law, in the first instance, and will effectuate a shift in state law. I'm only suggesting to you, in response to your last question, that it is not... it will not adversely affect the revenues of the state even if only some of the changes that are now being proposed in Congress, which we are likely to see, even if only some of those changes go into place."
"And then, of course, that does not take into effect Gramm-Rudman and the impact that Gramm-Rudman may have on the state."
"That's right."
"So, in other words, if the state ended up losing more money because of Gramm-Rudman, which I think I have heard Members of your side of the aisle say for several days now, even if we do get this new Bill out of Congress, which nobody knows whether it will or will not come out of Congress at this point, we still could end up with deficits for the State of Illinois and this creates an even further deficit."
"Well, in response, with regard to the Gramm-Rudman and the federal budget, I would remind you, Representative Churchill, that every local government is also feeling the effects of Gramm-Rudman. In fact, it has been suggested that the impact of that... those federal tax changes, the federal budget, as well as Gramm-Rudman, which by the way has not triggered in yet, that those effects will be more greatly felt at the local level even than at the state level. And as such, this kind of a shifting, increasing the Local Government Distributive Fund, again, will help every local government, every county in the State of Illinois on a per capita basis."
"And can you tell me, I notice from recent issues of 176 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the paper that there are some proposals at the local level in the City of Chicago to raise taxes. How much of this 60... $57,000,000 shift goes to the City of Chicago?"
"The City of Chicago, specifically, out of the $57,000,000 figure that I've just given you, the City is on a per capita basis would receive in the neighborhood of 15."
"$15,000,000?"
"15,000,000 out of 57."
"Okay, but then they won't really need this any more, now that they have the local tax increases?"
"No, Sir, because this will obviate the need for reliance, further reliance on the property tax. I would remind you that other revenue proposals for local government, such as authorization of income taxes on a city basis and the like, those Bills have been referred back to Interim Study. We are not going to act on them at this time. But the point is not just for the City of Chicago, although it obviously is the largest city in the State, it has a lot at stake in issues like this, but for all of our local governments. As the Federal Government shifts responsibility back, as the Reagan Revolution, to use the term, new federalism works and shifts the responsibility for program funding back to the states and then back to the local level, the local governments are the least capable of making up the difference without relying on federal... on property taxes. So, if we are going to have a progressive tax structure, it makes sense to have some sharing, as Crane's Chicago Business suggests, some sharing of the revenue sources which have been made available to state and local governments take place. This Bill only affects a sharing or only affects the sharing relationships between the state and the local governments in this... in this state at the time, and again, every county, every city will benefit." 177 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Churchil1: "Μг. Speaker, to the Bill. May 22, 1986 I think the Lady's argument is fallacious. On the one hand what she says is that the impact of federal decisions are going to cause a loss in revenues to the local governments if those impacts do occur, if the loss does occur, but then when I ask questions about whether or not the state is going to lose money. then the answer I receive is if there is a tax Bill that does come out of Congress and if certain provisions are in there, then the state will receive the money to compensate it for any potential loss in this Bill. Well, I don't think it's going to go either way. I don't... I don't see how you can say the state's going to get the money, but the locals aren't going to get the money. I think at this point, we have a $57,000,000 shift from the State of Illinois to the local governments. I don't think that we are in a position in this state today to be able to afford that kind of shift and, therefore, I would opposed the Bill and ask people to vote 'no' on it."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane." "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think on this Bill all of Us are going to have to make up our own mind. It's a $57,000,000 hit on the General Revenue. However, what all of us who have been following the Washington scene are well aware of is the fact that the present administration not only zapped state and local governments in the last budget... in their budget. but there all... we are also going to take a $40,000,000,000 hit in Gramm-Rudman sometime this September. We will then get down to a deficit of approximately, in the federal level, of $140,000,000,000 and in the next years, the federal cuts are going to be even more substantial. The President sent his budget over to Congress and they have done some drastic surgery on it, but what he did was he increased defense 178 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day spending, reduced domestic spending so May 22, 1986 that when Gramm-Rudman was applied to his budget, defense came out relatively untouched and domestic spending went down even more than he wanted. While the Senate has rebelled on that and has changed it substantially, we are going to have the same situation over the next three or four years or until 1991, when Gramm-Rudman is totally implemented and the Federal Government comes to a balanced budget. This kind of legislation is going to be needed simply because local government does not have the tax options available to it that State Government does. I agree with the previous speaker. We have had... it's the very... it's very easy for us to sit in this chamber and vote for tax relief and we, in Revenue Committee, have resisted a lot of tax relief Bills simply so that we could keep the state solvent. I think we ought to keep the state solvent and then come up with some priorities. If the Bill does not get passage, I think it's a starting point for discussions that we should have to determine how we are going to meet the reduced revenues we are going to get from the Federal Government, both in state and local governments. Thank you."
"The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman."
"Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I don't disagree with the analysis that was made by the previous speaker and particularly his reference to the prior speaker. But I would suggest to you that on the basis of the budgets which are passing through this Legislature and for whom we have direct... or for which we have direct responsibility, there isn't a Member on the floor of this House that doesn't know that there aren't enough dollars in the coffers, nor will there be enough dollars in the coffers to pay our own bills, and it seems to me that our first responsibility has to be to the 179 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 commitments that we make as a Body through the Amendment process. I don't question the sincerity with which the Bill is introduced and I don't necessarily disagree with the previous Sponsor or the previous comment made in reference to the local government situation. But in one area alone, in the area of education, the Governor has said he has 250,000,000 new dollars. The State Board of Education has asked for $362,000,000 just in that one area alone. Just in that one area alone, this entire difference could be swallowed up. And so, with... with that in mind, I rise and suggest that this is a problem we need to think about and we need to consider, but that needs to be done in a different time frame than the one we are in right now because a month from today, we are going to be getting closer and closer to recognizing the reality that we are faced with the old economic problem of unlimited wants and scarce resources. I would suggest to you that we cannot share these resources with anyone else at this time and I rise in opposition to this legislation, with all due respect to the fine Sponsor of this Bill."
"The Gentleman from Madison, Mr. Wolf."
"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."
"Yes, the Gentleman from Madison moves the previous question be put. Those in favor say 'aye", opposed 'no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Lady from Cook, Ms. Braun, to close."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the previous... speakers spoke of our first level of responsibility. Well, it seems to me our first level of responsibility is to the people who elected us, to the taxpayers back home. If you care about police services, if you care about fire services, if you care about the kinds of services that local governments provide, but that they don't have the money for now because 180 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 of cutbacks on the federal level, then you will vote for this Bill. If you care about property taxes and you don't want to see them go up, then you will vote for this Bill. This Bill is urgently needed now to make up for cutbacks that have already taken place, as well as cutbacks which we see on the horizons which are not just projected but which are to be expected within this next fiscal year. I encourage your support for House Bill 1442."
"Question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye", those opposed vote "no". Voting is now open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk... yes, I'm sorry. Mr. Young, one minute to explain your vote."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker. In an effort to get more green votes on the board, I'd like to remind the Members of this Assembly that this is not a Chicago Bill. This is a Bill for the state. The 57,000,000 in revenue sharing, only 15 of those would go to Chicago. That's 42,000,000 to your local governments. This is a good Bill for local governments who don't have the wherewithal of the state to withstand the federal crunch and this is a good vote for all the downstaters on this side of the aisle whose local governments need this revenue sharing. I urge an 'aye' vote."
"Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hensel, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. As everyone is aware, many of our local governments need more money to provide vital services and to pay for expensive liability insurance, but this Bill does not completely solve the current crisis. Local governments did get some good news yesterday on the insurance front. The Illinois 181 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 Supreme Court ruled that in some cases municipalities cannot be held negligent if they participate in a joint insurance pool. While the high court's ruling is encouraging, it also underscores the fact that our businesses have not received any relief in this area. It just points out the urgency with which we need to act to resolve this issue. My recommendation is that we start right now and work together getting the insurance problems before this Body in order to help municipalities in acquiring much needed liability insurance at a fair rate."
"Have all voted who wish? Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Huff, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This vote most clearly indicates that half of us are willing to face the future and the other half wants to stay in the past, Mr. Speaker. Clearly, the effects of the Gramm-Rudman Bill is going to impact on this state and it's going to require us to change our mind set with regards to budgets. And those of you who don't want to deal with the problem today will most certainly have to deal with it tomorrow. I would suggest that there are a lot more things we are going to have to do with regards to some of the special interests that we have been taking care of in this state. I don't want to suggest what we should do now because it might give you a heart attack, but those 56 green votes are on the right track. I'd like to get some more green votes up there, please."
"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 58 voting 'aye', 53 voting 'no'. Ms. Braun."
"Can I have a Poll of the Absentees, please?"
"And the Clerk will poll the absentees." 182 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986
"Poll of those not voting. Pangle. No further."
"Mr. Nash votes 'aye'. Mr. Ryder, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"
"In the event that it receives the requisite number of votes, I request a verification."
"Alright, fine. So, have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the... take the record. And on this question, there are... Ms. Braun, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"
"Go ahead."
"Okay, on this question there are..."
"Postponed Consideration, Speaker."
"... there are 59 voting 'aye', 52 voting 'no', 4 voting 'present', and that Bill will be placed on the Order of Consideration Postponed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Public Finance, appears House Bill 2821. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 2821, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to the founding and operation of the University of Illinois Hospital and the conduct of the Illinois University Health Care Programs. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Ronan."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to bring this Bill back to Second Reading for a couple of Amendments."
"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Ronan, asks leave of the House to return this Bill to the Order of Second Reading for an Amendment. Gentleman has leave. Mr. Clerk, are there any Amendments?"
"Amendment #1, offered by Representative Ronan."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Ronan, on Amendment #1." 183 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. May 22, 1986 Amendment #1 makes this a shell Bill. I move for the adoption of Amendment #1."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Ronan, moves for the adoption of Amendment #1. On that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, Shall the Amendment be adopted?" All in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it. The Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Ryder." Speaker Greiman STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEЗАТЕ 121st Legislative Day Hay 22, 1986
"Gentleman from Morgan withdraws Amendment 4. Further Amendment?"
"Floor Amendment #5, offered by Representative Ryder."
"Withdraw."
"Gentleman from Morgan withdraws Amendment #5."
"Al."
"Further Amendment?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Ronan, asks leave of the House to waive Rule 37(c) so this matter may be heard at this time. Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill on Third Reading."
"House Bill 2821, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act in relation to the founding and operation of the University of Illinois Hospital. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Ronan."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As stated very clearly, Amendment #2 is now the Bill. What we are trying to do is straighten out the situation with a debt incurred by the University of Illinois. They do provide a tremendous amount of care to indigent people in the City of Chicago and the County of Cook, and, in fact, around the State of Illinois. This is a fair and equitable compromise. Like to move the Bill over to the Senate so that we can review it in the fall. Thank you very much and I move for the passage of House Bill 2821."
"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Ronan, moves for the passage of House Bill 2821. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open and this is final 185 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 103 voting 'aye", 9 voting 'no", 1 voting *present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of Third Reading, Public Finance, appears House Bill 2937. Hr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 2937, a Bill for an Act in relation to bonds pertaining to State Occupation Use and Motor Fuel Taxes. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from DeWitt. Mr. Vinson."
"Yes, Hr. Speaker. I don't have my page open to the right point on the Calendar. Can you tell me, has an Amendment been adopted to this Bill? Yes, I see it was adopted. Thank you."
"Amendment #2 was adopted, Mr. Vinson."
"Thank you. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Bill originally, as it was introduced. would have removed the need for petroleum distributors and retailers to supply surety bonds as a condition of getting an ROT license or a motor fuel distributors license with the Department of Revenue. The Department of Revenue had some questions in regard to it because of their concern that if there is not some requirement for Financial security that taxpayers may evade the law and that the proper taxes may not be collected. As a consequence, the Bill was amended yesterday So as to provide that any taxpayer who has for 24 consecutive months been in compliance with the sales tax laws or the motor fuel laws would then not have to provide a surety bond to get their licenses. Particularly with regard to motor fuel distributors, there has been a very serious problem in cancellations... the lack of availability of these bonds. 186 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 And one of the two carriers who have traditionally written these bonds have now informed the industry that they are withdrawing from the writing of these bonds in Illinois. This provides for a way of assuring that the Department shall receive its revenues and for permitting the motor fuel distributors particularly to remain in business and to be able to get their licenses. For those reasons, I would urge that the House adopt House Bill 2937, and am prepared to answer any questions."
"Gentleman from DeWitt moves for the passage of House Bill 2937. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 108 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills, Third Reading, Public Finance, appears House Bill 3022. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House 3i11 3022, a Bill for an Act relating to county and municipal jails. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Gentleman... Gentleman from Saline, Mr. Phelps."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House Bill 3022 gives us a chance. Those of counties in which we live that have had the mandate for the Department of Corrections and of this state to come in compliance with the physical standards of the jails that do not meet those now. What I have attempted in this 3ill to provide the funds available for the counties that have been cited as being in noncompliance of the physical facilities standards of their jails. Many 187 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 of the counties, not only in my district, but throughout this state, cannot, by their own means, meet the standards imposed upon them to comply with the upgrading of the jails by their own means, by their own standards, their funds. They just cannot do it. Last year, I passed legislation out of this House that tried to address by counties that could not in their economically distressed situation meet these guidelines to try in an effort to unify, consolidate in a... in a concept known as a regional jail. That passed out of here overwhelmingly and the Senate and it went to the Governor's desk. He saw fit to veto it. I come back now saying if the... if the requirements are still imposed so stringently that we have to comply, even at the extent of being taken to court, by which the DOC has actually forced the Attorney General to look at in many counties, then we need to come to the rescue when we can. And this bond authorization will make grant entitlements available through the Capital Development Board and the DOC up to a maximum of nine percent. Now, the Amendment that I... the last Amendment that has been approved became the Bill, which actually sets up criteria to say how much of the percentage of that 90 maximum will counties that are now in noncompliance and have been cited, either... some of them are in court now. Some of them have to meet by 1990 deadline the physical standards. What percentage of reimbursement will they be eligible for if this legislation would pass? And the criteria which I introduced in Amendment 3 made available the criteria that DOC and the Capital Development Board together are not limited to those four criteria, but will at least give some guidelines on which counties would be more qualifying to a bigger percentage a more realistic percentage, depending on their economic situation. I appreciate your vote in support of 188 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day this legislation." May 22, 1986
"Gentleman from Saline moves for the passage of House Bill 3022. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Macon, Mr. Dunn. Representative Braun, in the Chair."
"Thank you, Mr. and Madam Speaker. I rise in support of this legislation because as the Sponsor has indicated there are mandates on a number of counties around this state to construct jails. We talk a lot here in this General Assembly about imposing costs on local government and then doing nothing about it. These mandates really have come down from the Federal Government, but they are passing to the local units of government, to local counties through our Department of Corrections. Our Department of Corrections is mandating each of these respective counties to do certain things, all of which are costly, and I commend the Sponsor for introducing this legislation to provide help and support to the beleaguered counties who are mandated to do this, many of which just don't have the funds to comply with the mandate without outside help. Jails are not popular to begin with. We are not talking about building roads. We are not talking about dredging ditches. We are not talking about canals and bridges. We are not talking about theaters. We are talking about something which has to be done and the counties were mandated to do it. Counties have lost a lot of sources of revenue recently. They badly need this help and I would respectfully ask for your help and support with an aye vote on House Bill 3022."
"Is there further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Will, Representative Davis."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield? Indicates he will. Representative Phelps, if you would, 189 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Greg, Representative Phelps, would you tell me if Amendment #3 addresses the issue that was asked earlier on another Bill that was referred back to this Bill, I believe, on the issue of those counties who have been severely impacted, usually in the metropolitan area, beyond even the minimum standard equivalent raise... raising of standards for... by DOC and the Federal Courts, those that have already begun the procedure, sometimes quite extensive, for instance, in our county, we have just funded a $25,000,000 public bond... or public building commission bond issue for a new jail. Are we going to get any thing back if your Bill succeeds?"
"Representative Davis, I made an error on referring to Amendment number; however, there was an Amendment passed that imposed the criteria that I hope would help clean up the Bill. But, nevertheless, in answer to your question, the... any county that has started construction completed
"Prior to the construction..."
"...since July 1, 1980, would be eligible for some reimbursement. The criteria that I had passed in the Amendment yesterday only gives some guidelines but are not limited to those for the DOC and COB to say your county would get so much percent based on your wealth or economic distress."
"Based on wealth or economic distress?"
"In other words, your economic base according to real estate values, average annual growth of county's tax base, per capita income, average annual growth in retail sales, as well as other things that would be indicative toward need. what percentage of help. Now, DOC and CDB may say that you don't... you are not eligible for any. They may say you are eligible for ten or 50 percent. That's based 190 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Davis: May 22, 1986 upon the criteria and authority that they would be having." "Well, I'm not sure I understand. I maybe even want to vote for the Bill because of the posture that we are in in my county and because of the aggressive posture that we have taken to correct the deficiencies where DOC has said our county jail was totally unacceptable. There was nothing we could do about because it was in a basement and we've got to get sunlight to it and it's pretty hard to do that. We've got to do a number of other things the Federal Courts and DOC has already said through the Federal Courts that we must do and from what you have said, however, since we are a growth county, your criterion for receiving grants to recompense for a total new jail construction may not qualify in my county because we are a growth county, by your financial criterion you put in of wealth and growth and whatever. But wa bite... we bit the bullet and now have a public building commission that has a tax levy on our citizens for exactly what you are talking about, to reconstruct a jail to meet the standards from the Federal Government and DOC and yet we can't come back and reclaim money because we are going to tax our citizens for it because we are wealthy. Is that what you are saying? We're not."
"Representative Davis, when was the jail built? Does it come into the July 1, '80 date that I have referred to?"
"The one we are building now? It hasn't been built yet. It's just under... it's getting ready to go."
"This provision would make you at least eligible; whereas, at this time, there is no chance for any state help. So, at least..."
"Oh, I understand that."
"So, at least, you'd have something to gain. But the July 1, 1980, date that I referred to are those who did 191 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 start in... not necessarily new construction. It could be reconstruction, remodaling ог whatever, since July 1, 1980."
"What's the estimated fiscal impact if every jail in the state qualified? You got any idea? Do you have a fiscal note on this?"
"Yes, I do."
"What is it?"
"The fiscal impact, of course, $75,000,000 is the initial purpose, but the general obligation debt would be 134.6..."
"A hundred..."
"$134 million point six."
"134 million. Well, 25,000,000 of it is going to be spent in my county by us. I don't see that there is a whole lot here for my county, so I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to support the Bill. I agree with you that the only chance... To the Bill, Madam Speaker, the only chance that... that some of us have who have aggressively taken a posture of creating a tax climate that's unpopular for this purpose because we thought we ought to do that and ought to get about it, that there's no chance really for recovery under your Bill. It looks to me like this is a Bill that's for downstaters who don't want to bite the bullet and tax their people anymore for the jails. I'm sympathetic to the notion. I think DOC and the Federal Courts are crazy most of the time on this stuff, especially the Federal Courts. Nevertheless, I don't think I can support the Bill because I don't think my county will get a damn dime out of it."
"Is there further discussion? Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Keane."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Question of the Sponsor?"
"He indicates he'll yield."
"How much will the increase the general obligation of the 192 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day state?"
"6.45 percent. percent." May 22, 1986 I'm sorry... million dollars, 1.5
"Alright. Thank you. To the Bill. We have had a tremendous growth in the debt per individual within the State of Illinois. Last year, the Auditor General put out a report on what has become a startling growth in the amount of general obligation bonds, Build Illinois bonds, various kinds of bonds which, in effect, do not have a revenue source attached to them other than the growth within the State Government. As we continue to bond, rather than pay as we go, we are driving future generations into a similar problem that the Federal Government is now experiencing. The Federal Government did... wasn't too far... it wasn't too long ago, that many years ago, that the Federal Government did not have an unmanageable debt. They found themselves running to $200,000,000,000 in deficits. We've got... I don't know how many trillion dollars of debt and they are now trying to work their way out of it. I would think that the State of Illinois should avoid the same traps by passing... the trap of passing on to future generations the things that we want to do today, curb our appetites and vote against Bills like this unless we have some kind of an agreed bonding process that as we pay off bonds, we then float new ones and we do it on some type of logical priority basis. And, while I have a great deal of respect for the Sponsor, I, unfortunately, will have to vote 'no', and would urge my colleagues also to vote 'no'."
Speaker Braun: "Is there further discussion? The Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"
"Yes." 193 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Ropp:
May 22, 1986 "Earlier today, we passed a Bill which stated that whenever the state mandated a particular program, that dollars would follow through with it. What effect does that passage have on your Bill?" "I believe, if you are referring to Representative Cullerton's Bill, in answer... his answer to the question was, it could provide some help, but I do not know to what extent at this point."
"Okay. Another question. With your proposal, as you have it, what prevents a county who is operating a jail to just allow it to become run down and not cared for, knowing that the state would come forth with extra dollars to take care of it? This... This certainly could be a way in which a county could balance their county budget by not normally keeping up their jail in good repair as they should."
"In answer to your question, it's the same question I asked when the DOC was making their six months inspections throughout the counties and were in my district. And the answer I get is that the major thing, I think, which came from the federal mandates is the segregation of category, the misdemeanant and felons, have caused a lot of the problems. And until that is somehow reconciled, there going to be... those counties are going to be cited as in noncompliance; therefore, each one of these public officials are held liable and that's a very uncomfortable situation and we are losing a lot of good people in the county level. So, I see it as if the DOC can do their job with the criteria which I have imposed in this Bill, they ought to be able to detect sincere noncompliance with fabricated."
"Well, I think it's a bit difficult to have that value judgment as a part of the Bill and I guess I would think that the Bill would be improved somewhat substantially if 194 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 there was some kind of a provision where counties would come up with a few dollars which would then be matched by state dollars to meet the requirements because, as I understand this particular Bill, it certainly does not encourage the maintenance, the upkeep of an existing jail, which to many people who might be on a county board would say, well, we don't have to do anything because the state's going to come in an fix it. And for that reason, I oppose the Bill."
"Is there further discussion? The Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative DeJaegher."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Dave, with all due respect to you, and I am a Cosponsor of this particular Bill, but listening to floor discussion, there was an item that Mr. Davis brought up that you have basically changed the criteria on who could qualify for reimbursement. And this is one of the items that disturbs me somewhat. You make reference to wealth, growth and et cetera. Rock Island County had a unique problem. They were cited by the Federal Government that a new jail must be constructed. They took the issue to the voters on three separate occasions and on three separate occasions they were turned down. It was not receptive... the taxpayers were not receptive to building a new jail. So, then they... of course, they created a building commission and through the advent of a building commission, this particular project was funded and it was just in operation for just about six months now. These is one of my concerns. Here, even though I am receptive to you, since the initial input of construction of that particular jail, Rock Island has fell on hard times. In fact, it's probably one of the most depressed counties in the State of Illinois, and for some particular reason, it seems like it's the Forgottonia of 195 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the State of Illinois. And if your particular Bill should be... become into law, I feel that these people in this particular county should be reimbursed somewhat for what they have taken. They have taken the initiative, they have built the jail and I'm a little bit concerned about the additional wording that's been put into this particular Bill where it wasn't in before. And can you give me some idea of why that additional wording was put into the Bill?"
"Representative, the criteria outlined was just some basis to have to show that we are concerned and that the DOC and the CDB have some way to determine, some distinction with those counties that are in need of more help than others and... and all the background, I believe, will be taken into consideration. We have... the Departments of this state have a lot of flexibility as they stand now with policy and I was hoping that this... that these agencies will have the same type of authority and flexibility with some type of guidelines which I have outlined here to have and based upon that. I believe your county would... would probably get the fair consideration that you have reflected upon."
"Is there further discussion? There being none, the Gentleman from Saline, to close."
"If it is a priority of this state to say... to force counties, regardless of their economic situation and say you must build jails to comply with these standards, then I believe, as I have consistently voted in today's Bills in which a former speaker referred to, that it is the state's responsibility to at least provide much, if not most of the funds, which this is not asking... the counties will have some local responsibility and that degree of responsibility is outlined according to need, which I think is obvious to all of us. It does not take a smart person to know which 196 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 county is able to afford how much of their tax base for what services they provide for their citizens. I am asking for a fair assessment of your county and counties of which you represent and if the priority by this state is outlined, that we must have jails up to these type of standards, then let's meet them more than halfway. This requires three-fifths vote because we are authorizing bonds and I appreciate your support."
"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 3022. All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted? Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 65 voting 'aye", 46 voting "no". The Gentleman from Saline."
"Madam Speaker, this needs 71 votes and for those people that are wondering, on both sides of the aisle, I have a list of the counties that are in noncompliance that must come in compliance either this year or by the time table 1990. They cover a lot of counties that represent both sides of the aisle and I believe it would be in your best interests to really listen to your constituents when they... the bonds in your own county will have to really be... be passed and, therefore, they will be absorbing upon what already is property tax saturation now. So, I really appeal to your kindness for your own county. It's not for me. It's for your own county and I appreciate 71 votes lining up there because we really need it for each county."
"For what reason does the Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black... Representative Black changes his vote from 'no' to 'aye'. From 'no' to 'aye' for Representative Black. The Parliamentarian has just examined this legislation and concurs that the Bill takes 71 votes for passage. Have all voted? The Clerk will take 197 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the record. On this 3ill there are 66 voting 'aye', 45 voting 'no', 4 voting 'present'. What is your pleasure, Representative Phelps?"
"Poll of the Absentees, please."
"The Gentleman requests a Poll of the Absentees."
"Representative Klemm is the only Member who is not voting."
"Alright. On this Bill there are 66... for what reason does Mr. Pangle rise? Mr. Pangle votes 'aye'. Mr. Pangle has voted 'aye'. Thank you. On this Bill, there are 67 voting 'aye', 45 voting 'no', 3 voting 'present'. House Bill... the Gentleman requests that this Bill be placed on the Order of Postponed Consideration. House Bill 3032, Representative Laurino. Representative Laurino. Mr. Clerk, read the aill."
"House Bill 3032, a Bill for an Act in relationship to occupation and use taxes. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Has Amendment #8 been printed and distributed?"
"Amendment 8 has been printed and distributed."
"I'd request at this time to bring House Bill 3032 back to Second Reading for the purpose of an Amendment."
"The Gentleman requests leave to return House Bill 3032 to the Order of Second Reading. Does he have leave? Leave is granted. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3032, a Bill for an Act in relationship to occupation and use taxes. On the Order of Second Reading has been said... read a second time previously. There are no Motions. Next Amendment is Floor Amendment 37, offered by Representative Ronan and Laurino."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Ronan."
"Madam Speaker, I move to withdraw Amendment 87." 198 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Amendment 7 is withdrawn. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #8, offered by Representative Ronan."
"Gentleman from Cook, on Amendment 3."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I move for the adoption of Amendment #8 to House Bill 3032. We had a Supreme Court decision last year that stated that any local taxes, municipal taxes that are collected by the state, any revenue generated from those taxes should be returned to the municipality. This will put this Bill in conformance with that Supreme Court decision. I move for the adoption of Amendment #8 to House Bill 3032."
"The Gentleman has moved the adoption of Amendment #8 to House Bill 3032. On that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, Shall Amendment 8 be adopted? All in favor say 'aye, opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"There are no further Amendments."
"No further Amendments. Third Reading. The Gentleman asks leave for immediate consideration of House Bill 3032 on the Order of Third Reading. Does he have leave? Leave is granted. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3032, a Bill for an Act in relationship to occupation and use taxes. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Laurino."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3032 attempts to close the loophole in the Local Use Tax Act because it cannot be collected on sales tax in Illinois of non-titled items from out-of-state retailers. It places a... the border area Illinois retailers and wholesalers at a competitive disadvantage against out-of-state retailers and wholesalers. The 199 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 The difference can be anywhere from one to three percent. state use tax is collectible on sales to Illinois consumers from out-of-state sellers. Therefore, this Bill proposes to have the state impose the use tax on behalf of the local governments will border area sellers, but and of the state itself. This will not only provide some protection to our increase local revenues as well. In addition, as amended, the Bill gives the Department of Revenue the power to assess sales tax on out-of-state retailers who target Illinois consumers by advertising by mail order sales. I ask for your favorable support."
"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 3032. And on that, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Lake, Representative Churchill."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker.
"He indicates he will." Will the Gentleman yield?"
"Representative, does this impose a new state tax?"
"No."
"Does this cause the imposition of a local tax?"
"In some places."
"And approximately how many places will there be a new municipal or local tax?"
"There's a few communities and counties that don't impose a tax now that probably should be." So, can you tell me, in how many counties will this impose a new tax?" Churchill:
"Approximately eight."
"Eight. And in approximately how many municipalities will this impose a new tax?"
"About 113. It's not a new tax. are not occupying to their best moment." It's a tax that they advantage right at the 200 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Alright, SO May 22, 1986 what you are saying is that these counties, the eight counties and the 113 municipalities presently choose not to have a tax and what we are doing in this Bill is that we are mandating that those eight counties and 113 municipalities impose a tax they have chosen not to impose before?"
"Some of them are imposing the tax, but not to the full extent."
"Okay, thank you very much."
"Is there further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Didrickson."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield for a question, please?"
"Indicates he will."
"Representative Laurino, does this... you mentioned something about out-of-state retail sales in the State of... in the State of Illinois. Does this correct that situation where many of us have received letters regarding North Carolina furniture companies coming in, allowing our... suggesting that our customers go shop local furniture stores and then get the number and then order through the catalogs so they can avoid the Sales tax... also..."
"That's exactly what Amendment #4 did."
"Thank you very much."
"Is there further discussion? There being none, the Chair... Gentleman from Cook, to close. Representative Laurino, to close."
"Well, I don't think there's any necessity to plead a case that is going to raise money for the municipalities and the state itself. I just ask for your urging an 'aye* vote."
"Gentleman moves the passage of House Bill 3032. 201 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no". The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 63 voting 'aye', 48 voting 'no". This Bill... House Bill 3032, having received the Constitutional Majority... Representative Didrickson."
"I unavoidably pushed the wrong button and I would like to be recorded as 'aye' on this Bill, please."
"Representative Didrickson changes her vote from 'no' to 'aye'. Again, to the Membership, if you want recognition, press the button so I can see it before you start yelling. The Lady from LaSalle votes 'aye'. Representative Breslin changes her vote from 'no' to 'aye'. Representative Pangle changes his vote from 'no' to 'aye'. Representative Kirkland votes 'no'... changes his vote from 'aye' to 'no'. Representative Mays votes 'aye'. Representative Barger changes his vote from 'aye' to 'no'. Representative Mulcahey votes 'no', changes his vote from 'no'. Representative Younge votes 'aye'... Wyvetter Younge. Representative Black changes his vote from 'no' to 'aye'. On this Bill, there are 67 voting 'aye', 46 voting 'no'. House Bill 3032, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3217, Representative Currie. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3217, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to the Chicago Park District. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Lady from Cook."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Members of the House. House Bill 3217 authorizes the second half of a ten year bond authorization for the eight museums on Chicago Park District land. The 26 million dollar bond authorization is 202 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 required to be matched by private sector contributions. These museums are our states greatest tourist attraction, bringing in some 9,000,000 people... 9 to 10,000,000 people every year and the buildings in the case of each of the eight museums is rather elderly. Capital improvements are appropriate and necessary. We first began this program about four years ago. Given the dollar for dollar match and given the promise of the beginning of this program four year ago, this legislation is appropriate. It will enable the museums to plan for private sector giving so they may match these dollars. The capital improvement projects are already underway. The tax implications in this Bill are minimal. The Civic Federation, the watchdog of all of our purses and pocketbooks, does not oppose this legislation and the Bill has strong support, not only from the eight museums, but from the Chicago Park District and from the Chicago Association of Commerce and Industry. I'm happy to answer any questions and I would appreciate your support for House Bill 3217."
"The Lady has moved the passage of House Bill 3217. On that, is there any discussion? There being none. the question is 'Shall House Bill 3217 pass?" All in favor vote "aye", opposed vote 'no". The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 87 voting 'aye', 24 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. House Bill 3217, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3309, Representative Friedrich. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3309, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to taxation of certain mineral rights. Third Reading of the Bill." 203 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Lady from Marion... I'm sorry. May 22, 1986 The Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich, on House Bill..."
"Madam Chairman, I would like to have... take this back to Second for the order of... for the reason of Amendment."
"The Gentleman asks leave to return House Bill 3309 to the Order of Second Reading for purposes of an Amendment. Does he have leave? Leave is granted. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3309, a Bill for an Act in relationship to taxation of certain mineral rights. On the Order of Second Reading..."
"I'm sorry. Was Amendment #3 adopted, Mr. Clerk?"
"Amendment #3 is on the Bill."
"Okay, Madam Chairman, I am in error. I would like it brought back to Third Reading for the purpose of passage. I had the wrong information. Would you return it to Third Reading, please?"
"Gentleman..."
"For the purpose of passage. I was in error. I'm sorry."
"The Gentleman asks... Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3309, a Bill for an Act in relationship to taxation of certain mineral rights. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Marion, on House Bill 3309."
"Madam Chairman, Members of the House. This Bill has been carefully worked out over the period of a year here by the Farm Bureau, the Supervisor of Assessments throughout the state and the coal industry. We had, literally, a crisis a year ago. We passed a Bill which would hold harmless until January of the following year. Now, we have 204 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 put into this Bill a formula for assessing coal, the undeveloped coal and the newly mined coal and to the point where I think it's agreed with all the parties too. It's rather complicated. I'd be glad to get into it if you want, but in the past, the Supervisor of Assessments literally could not abide by the law and assess coal interests. If there is any question, I be glad to try to answer them."
"Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3309. On that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Coles, Representative Weaver."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Representative, what effect would this have on farmland assessment with the new formula?"
"If the coal is undeveloped and unsevered, there would be no tax. If a farmer still has the unsevered coal rights on his ground there would be no tax as far as he's concerned. Was that your question?"
"Would... Would this put a... Would this effectively put a cap on the property tax rate on that land which no extraction permit has been issued?"
"It would put a cap."
"Okay. Madam Speaker, to the Bill. I think this is probably a step forward in terms of agricultural assessment in the state and all of those of us who represent downstate agricultural areas ought to support this Bill. Thank you."
"Is there further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Keane."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise in support of the Bill. The Sponsor has worked with the Revenue Committee and staff and I think the Bill is in fine shape. Urge your approval." 205 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich, to close."
"Well, as has been pointed out, this has been worked out to where I think it's a fair Bill on the assessment of coal, both that coal being mined and that which is unsevered, and I'd appreciate your vote."
"Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3309. All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 113... 114... Representative Greiman would like to be recorded as voting 'aye'. Alright, on this question, there are 114 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. House Bill 3309, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3396, Representative McPike."
"House Bill 3396, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the Build Illinois Program. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Gentleman from Madison, Representative McPike."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3396 is the Build Illinois bond authorization Bill. It's the one that we accepted 128 Amendments to last night. It's clear that this will end up in a Conference Committee and be resolved by the negotiators as to what is or is not to be included this year. So, with that, I would simply ask for an 'aye' vote."
"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 3396, and on that, is there any discussion? Representative Greiman, in the Chair."
"Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Hallock."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I 206 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 rise in support of House 3ill 3396. Ke, obviously, have a long ways to go yet in the process on Build Illinois. This will keep the Bill moving and we can eventually get it in Conference Committee and work some differences out. I'd ask for your support."
"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Levin."
"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House... I... you know, have no... you know, all I want... what... no, what I simply wanted to say is, last year..."
"Mr. Mc Pike, please don't intimidate the Members."
"Last year, we labored hard and long on Build Illinois and Chicago was supposed to get a fair amount of the money and Chicago did not. I'm going to vote for this Bill, but I am concerned that we don't run into the same kind of problem down the road."
"Question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open and this is not... this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 105 voting 'aye', 2 voting 'no', 3 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills, Third Reading, Public Finance, appears House Bill 3503. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3503, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to state revenue sharing. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Lady from Cook, Ms. Braun. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill. No, Ms. Braun."
"Thank you. The microphone wasn't on. Essentially, House Bill 3503 shifts the credit, the income tax... the 207 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 investment tax credit from the personal property tax to the income tax base. This Bill attempts to ensure that local governments are not penalized by the state's investment tax credit. Currently, the tax is applied only against the corporate personal property replacement tax. We believe. however, that given the mandate of the Constitution that all revenues lost by local governments as a result of the replacement of that tax that it is of importance that this Bill be passed to allow for the full replacement of the tax base... the tax revenues lost by local governments as a result of the replacement of the corporate personal property tax. I encourage your support and will answer any questions you have for the 3ill."
"Lady from Cook moves for the passage of House Bill 3503, and on that, the Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Churchill."
"Thank you, Ar. Speaker. Will the Lady yield?"
"Indicates she will."
"A few moments ago, we discussed a Bill that had a tax shift. Does this again create a tax shift?"
"Yes... in one sense, but in another sense, there is a different constituency involved because this affects school districts and other districts, as well as units of... as well as municipalities in the state."
"Okay, so under this tax shift, who receives?"
"This is... This Bill affects all... affects units of local government in addition to the municipalities such as boards of education and the like."
"Okay, so they receive and who pays?"
"The money comes out of the General Revenue."
"And how does it come out of the General Revenue? Whose..."
"Well, to the extent... to the extent the shift affects an 208 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 application of the investment tax credit against the income tax base as opposed to the corporate personal property replacement tax base. Mouthful."
"Okay, and do you have any idea what the cost of this Bill is?"
"Yes, Sir."
"And what is that?"
"It's estimated that the cost of this... that this Bill will affect between 40 and $60,000,000."
"So, between 40 and $60,000,000 shift from the State of Illinois to the local..."
"Every other unit of local government."
"Every other unit of local government. So, I guess then this is pretty similar to the Bill that we just had a few minutes ago. that we defeated 2 few minutes ago, right?"
"I'm sorry. What did you say?"
"This is very similar to the Bill we just defeated a few minutes ago."
"Well, no, because it's a different constituency and the dollars affected by this shift are exclusive of the monies that would be going to local governments under the Local Government Distributive Fund, which was the Bill that we heard a few minutes ago."
"To the Bill, Mr. Speaker. I..."
"Proceed."
"I think a few moments ago we had a Bill that was similar to this. It... There was a different tax shift. Again, it was taking from the tax revenues of the State of Illinois and passing dollars to the local units of government. In some other time, in some other year, that may be what we want to do, but I don't think that that is what we want to do today in this fiscal year, in this 209 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day budgetary year. The cost is somewhere $60,000,000 that we are transferring May 22, 1986 between 40 to from this unit of local government that we are sent here to represent to the other units of local government that we also represent, but we don't sit on their boards. We don't cast their votes. We have a duty and an obligation here in the State of Illinois to try and protect the revenues of this state and I don't think at this point we can afford to pass $60,000,000 from the government in the State of Illinois on to the local governments."
"The Gentleman from Kendall, Mr. Hastert."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think we have seen this Bill before and before and before. It's a Bill that's come perennially before the House, and I don't really ever remember of it getting out. But what we're doing here is playing, you know, peas under the shell. And what we're trying to do is saying, "Okay, we're going to not take the investment against property tax replacement; which is the traditional way that we've credited that... that tax credit, and now, we're going to take it against general revenue funds or the Illinois corporate income tax. And of course, if you want to give a tax break, you know, a lot of those corporations in the last couple of years - and of course, this is a delayed tax - maybe we might not even have a replacement period. So, what we're doing here is taking it out of General Revenue. We're really slicing a hole at the bottom of the bucket and letting the General Revenue funds that fund public aid, that fund education, that fund public health, that fund mental health. We're letting those funds trickle away, and of course, you can't have it both ways. You can't take away from what we have in General Revenue Fund and spend at the same time. So, maybe some people think you can have it 210 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 both ways, but if you believe that we got to be able to have money in the Illinois Treasury before we spend it, then you're going to vote 'no' against this Bill, and I would urge very seriously a 'no' vote."
"Ms. Braun, to close."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This isn't, in fact, a 'make hole' situation. Units of local government in this state have not recovered yet from the changes that occurred from the abolition of the personal property replacement tax. The revenue base has... the revenue stream has not been filled up, if you will, back to units of local government. This Bill, in fact, has received the support of this General Assembly. Senate Bill 249 last year passed both the House and the Senate. It was subsequently vetoed. I would say to all of you that the question before us at this time is whether or not the Reagan revolution means war on local government, whether or not it means that we will destroy units of local government, destroy our cities, destroy our towns, destroy the smaller units which are closer to the people at the same time that the State of Illinois guards jealously the money that... the revenue sources that it has and, indeed, even the windfalls that it will get from the revisions in the federal tax structure. If, indeed, we are to allow local governments the abilities to make up from changes on the state level and changes on the federal level, then it will be important that we give them the ability to at least be made whole from changes which have subsequently taken so that the revenue sources to local governments are protected and preserved. I submit to all of you, Ladies and Gentlemen, that we are elected here not to represent governmental bodies which are fictions in... of themselves, but we are here to represent the people of this 211 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 state, and the people of this state want tax relief at the local level. They don't want to pay higher property taxes, and it is up to us to make our tax system more progressive, to make our tax system fair, and most important, to make our tax system reflect sharing among the units of government which have been empowered that is a sharing that is equitable and fair... and that is fair. At the present time. we have seen changes on the federal level, we have seen changes on the state level. Local governments need the resources... all the resources that we can make available to them so that they can provide those basic services - fire and police and the like - those basic services on the local level with tax revenues which are the... in the final analysis, the people's money. I encourage your support of House Bill 3503."
"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open, and this is final action. The Gentleman from Marion, Mr. Friedrich, to explain his vote. One minute."
"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I believe, if you want to look up the facts, the cities and villages are getting a bigger percentage of their total revenue from the Federal Government than they were under either Johnson or Carter, and I resent keeping implying that Reagan is shutting off this thing. If anybody shuts it off, it's going to be the Congress, and they're still getting more than they were under Carter and Johnson."
"The Lady from Cook, Ms. Currie, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. The investment tax credit was our idea. It was the idea of State Government. We hoped it would revitalize the state 212 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 economy. The point of House Bill 3503 is to say that we in State Government should take the risk that the investment tax credit does not work, rather than expecting our local school districts and our local governments to take that risk in our... in our stead. The point here is to say, put our money where our mouth is. If we really believe the investment tax credit will revitalize this state, let's put our revenues on the line, not somebody else's revenues on the line to see to it that this state does become an economically vital and an economically healthy one. We should all support this proposal, for it is a way of saying, it's our ball game, it's our idea, and it's our revenues that should be jeopardized if, for some reason, the theory is flawed."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Piel, one minute to explain your vote."
"Just to ask for a verification, should this receive the required number of votes."
"The Gentleman from DeWitt, Mr. Vinson, one minute to explain your vote."
"Number one, last year, Illinois led the nation in companies relocating into Illinois and building plants. Part of that's because of this. Number two, right now only 60 percent of this goes for education, but if you transfer the impact to the state, you'll undermine the entire education budget for the state. I urge a 'no' vote."
"Mr. Stephens, the Gentleman from St. Clair, one minute to explain your vote."
"Mr. Speaker, just to set the record straight. What the Reagan revolution has done is make sure that people are working in America today. We have an all-time record of over 110 million people employed, and that's the real story of the Reagan revolution." 213 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 60 voting 'aye', 55 voting no, none voting 'present', and the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Piel, has requested a Verification of the Affirmative Roll Call. And the Lady from Cook, Hs. Braun, has requested a Poll of the Absentees."
"A poll of those not voting. Stephens. No further."
"Poll of the... Poll of the Affirmative Roll Call."
"Alexander. Berrios. Bowman. Braun. Brookins. Capparelli. Christensen. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. Daley. DeJaagher. DeLeo. Dunn. Farley. Flinn. Flowers. Giglio. Giorgi. Greiman. Hannig. Hartke. Hicks. Homer. Huff. Keane. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. LeFlore. Leverenz. Levin. Martinez. Matijevich. McGann. McNamara."
"Excuse me, Mr. Clerk. Mr. Stephens?"
"Mr. Speaker, how am I recorded?"
"You're not recorded."
"I guess in my excitement, I forgot to vote. Could I be recorded as voting 'aye?'"
"Yes. Vote the Gentleman 'aye'. Proceed, Sir."
"McPike. Nash. O'Connell. Panayotovich. Pangle. Phelps. Preston. Rea. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Shaw. Steczo. Stephens. Stern. Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. Washington. White. Wolf. Anthony Young. Wyvetter Younge. And Mr. Speaker."
"Mr. Piel, Mr. Bowman asks leave to be verified. Mr. Piel, is it alright? Mr. Bowman, you have leave to be verified. Mr. Piel, do you have questions of the Affirmative Roll Call?" 214 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"I might be wrong, but there's a Gentleman to my far right that's jumping up and down. Why don't you call on Representative Stephens first?"
"Well, perhaps we should call the Department of Mental Health, then. Mr. Piel, questions of the Affirmative. Do you have questions of the Affirmative Roll Call?"
"We were thinking about that. We were thinking about that, Mr. Speaker."
"Now, perhaps you should tell the Gentleman to leave..."
"Mr. Stephens... Mr. Stephens is trying to get your attention, first. Mr. Speaker."
"Well, Mr... Mr. Piel, apparently you have no questions of the Affirmative Roll Call. Mr. Piel."
"Mr. Speaker, I do. Let's... We're trying to move on with the business. Representative Stephens wants to change his vote. Why don't you call on him, and then we'll continue, whichever you want to do. Do you want me to start first? Fine. I'll start first, Mr. Speaker."
"Mr. Piel, I'm going to try... Mr. Piel, first, so we get some principles, I... the Chair... Π
"Principles?"
"The Chair recognizes people, not you, Sir. I have asked you twice now... three times, Sir, if you have questions of the Affirmative Roll Call. I would like to do this in an orderly way."
"Yes, I do. Yes, I do. Orderly way. Okay, fine. Representative Berrios."
"Mr. Berrios. Mr. Berrios is at the rear of the chamber."
"Representative Capparelli."
"Mr. Capparelli. Mr. Capparelli is right here 215 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 in the well."
"Representative Homer."
"Mr. Homer is in his seat."
"Representative Leverenz."
"Mr. Leverenz is standing at his seat."
"Representative Saltsman."
"Mr. Saltsman, the Gentleman from Peoria. Mr. Saltsman is right here in front of his seat."
"Representative DeLeo."
"Mr. DeLeo. Mr. DeLeo. Is Mr. DeLeo in the chamber? Mr. DeLeo. How is Mr. DeLeo recorded, Mr. Clerk?"
"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."
"Remove Mr. DeLeo from the Roll Call."
"Representative Dunn."
"Mr. Dunn is in his chair."
"Representative Flinn."
"Mr. Flinn is in his chair."
"Representative Stephens."
"Mr. Stephens. Mr. Stephens. Is Mr. Stephens in the chamber? How is Mr. Stephens recorded?"
"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."
"Mr. Cullerton, for what purpose to you seek recognition?"
"Mr. Speaker, I believe that the rule, a clear interpretation, when the Gentleman is here and votes orally, he cannot be verified off at the time of the verification. I also... I'm almost positive that that's the rule. Now, we can check with Representative Vinson, who says that you can't change your votes after the record's been taken and see what he thinks about it, but I'm almost positive that I heard... I know I heard the Gentleman - and it's on the tape - vote 'aye'. It's on the 216 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 transcript, and he was clearly present at the time of the vote. I don't think that he can be verified off."
"We... As far as Mr. Vinson's suggestion, Mr... Mr. Cullerton, please don't use Mr. Vinson's name in debate. But yes, Mr. Vinson did raise that point. He was in error, then, so that if Mr. Stephens did come into the chamber and was... and was recognized by this Chair, which of course, probably will be done in all fairness, he would be recognized. That's correct. Indeed, we have already... we have ruled on two occasions previously that where someone votes orally after the board is closed, that he cannot be... he cannot be verified off."
"Never mind, Mr. Speaker. He's already back in the chamber anyway, so..."
"Well, he's back in the chamber. Mr. Piel, Piel: further questions of the Affirmative Roll Call." "Representative Giglio."
"Mr. Giglio. Mr. Giglio. Is he in the chamber? Mr. Giglio in the chamber? How is the Gentleman recorded?"
"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."
"Remove Mr. Giglio from the... from the Roll Call. Restore Mr. DeLeo from the... to the Roll Call. Further questions of the Affirmative Roll Call?"
"Representative Kulas."
"Mr. Kulas. Is Mr. Kulas in the chamber? How is Mr. Kulas recorded?"
"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."
"Remove... Mr. Kulas is right here at the door."
"Representative Laurino."
"Mr. Laurino is with the Speaker - the real Speaker."
"Hi, Mike. Representative Krska."
"Mr. Krska. Mr. Representative Krska. Is Mr. 217 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Krska in the chamber? Mr. Krska. How recorded?" Hay 22, 1986 is Mr. Krska
"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye."
"Remove Mr. Krska from the Roll Call."
"Representative Preston."
"Mr. Preston is in his chair."
"Representative Richmond."
"Ar. Richmond is at his chair." "Representative Panayotovich."
"Mr. Panayotovich is indeed in his chair. He's with his future wife, SO we should all applaud Mr. Panayotovich. He's going to play it again, Sam. Mr... Mг. Piel, further questions of the Affirmative Roll Call.
"We could make a suggestion. Cindy looks a lot better than he does. She could stay here, and he could leave."
"Ar. Giglio has Restore him to the Roll."
"No further questions." Speaker returned to the chamber.
"Excuse me, Hr... Hr. Tate, for what purpose do you seek recognition? Mr. Tate?
"I yield to Mr. Stephens." Your light is going on."
Speaker Greiman "Yes, Ms. Breslin? Es. Breslin votes 'aye'. Mr. Stephens, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"
"Well, Mr. Speaker, I was called off the floor. I had to talk to the President. He advised me that he enjoyed my endorsement of his administration and that in my excitement of that endorsement that I had, indeed, voted incorrectly, and I apologize that I bothered the chamber with that, and I would like to have my vote changed from 'aye to 'no'. Thank you."
"Record Mr. Stephens 'no". On this question, there are 60 voting 'aye', 55 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional 218 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Majority, is hereby declared passed."
"Turn me off, please." May 22, 1986
"Turn Mr. Piel off. On the Order of Public Finance, Bills on Second Reading appears House Bill 1675. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 1675, a Bill for an Act to amend... this Bill has been read a second time previously. Amendments 1, 5 and 7 were adopted previously."
"Any Motions with respect to adopted Amendments?"
"No Motions filed."
"Are there any Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment 08, offered by Representative Churchill."
"The Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Churchill."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #8 defers the time from January 1 until the end of March for the Department of Revenue to make a determination under this Bill. It's a 90 day deferrment that's needed by the Department to analyze the previous year's tax for the purpose of providing the accelerated payment."
"The Gentleman from Lake moves for the adoption of... moves for the passage of House Bill 1670... I'm sorry... moves for the adoption of Floor Amendment #8 to House Bill 1675. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Young."
"We'll accept the Amendment."
"The question is, "Shall Amendment #8 be adopted?" All in favor say 'aye", opposed "no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Yes, Mr. Clerk, this Bill was 219 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day previously read. Is that correct?" May 22, 1986
"The Bill was read a second time previously."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Young, asks leave of the House to waive Rule 37(c) so that Bill may be immediately considered. The Gentleman has leave. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 1675, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act relating to state collections of certain locally imposed taxes. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Young."
"Thank you. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The Bill as amended creates annual one-time disbursements to counties and municipalities to speed up the payment to those municipalities of taxes collected by the state, and I urge your favorable vote."
"The Gentleman from Cook moves for the passage of House Bill 1675. Is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open, and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 93 voting 'aye', 12 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of Public Finance appears House Bill... Second Reading appears House Bill 2796. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 2796, a Bill for an Act to add Sections to the Illinois Municipal Code. This Bill was read a second time previously. Amendment #4 was adopted previously."
"Are there any Motions with respect to Amendment 84?" 220 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMELY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"No Motions filed."
"Are there any Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment £5."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Steczo, on Amendment 25."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #5 to House Bill 2796 simply clarifies one small portion of the law and makes two technical changes. On page three of the Bill, we specify that upon a two-thirds vote of the governing body, they may petition the Comptroller for establishment of a financial planning supervision commission if there's a financial emergency or crisis pending. In the following Section, we are also providing for that two-thirds majority vote of the governing body to establish this commission within 15 days after the occurrence of any of the events that... which would actually provide for the fiscal emergency. I would move for the adoption of Amendment #5."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Steczo, moves for the adoption of Amendment 5 to House Bill 2796. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, Shall this Amendment be adopted?" All in favor say aye, opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #6, offered by Representative Churchil1."
"The Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Churchill. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton. For what purpose do you seek recognition?"
"Point of Order. Mr. Speaker, I believe that Amendment #6 is not germane and that it would violate the single subject rule.
"We'll examine the Amendment, Mr. Cullerton. 221 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day The Amendment Churchill?" is not germane. Out of May 22, 1986 order.
Mr. Churchill: "Mr. Speaker, in Amendment 4, which was, I believe, adopted to this Bill, declares this to be an Act in relation to financial planning and supervision of commissions for units of local government. Amendment #6, which I seek to adopt, is an Act in relation to financial planning and supervision commissions for units of local government and to the liability of those units, which is exactly the same language that's used in the previous Amendment. How can it not be germane?"
"Well, I... absolutely, it is ungermane. It deals with the financial planning and supervision commissions for units of local government, and you have opened... changed the entire mission of this Bill to add the words, liability of those units', none of which is germane. It is not germane, Sir. Mr. Clerk, are there further Amendments?"
"Mr. Speaker... Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker."
"No further Amendments."
"Do you wish to appeal the ruling of the Chair?"
"Yes."
"Do you? Okay. The... "
"Mr. Speaker, I withdraw that appeal."
"Yes. Okay. Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 2796, a Bill for an Act to add Sections to the Illinois Municipal Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. McNamara."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. What this Bill seeks to do is to alleviate a problem as far as 222 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 cities and villages, towns, units of local government in the State of Illinois, and it conducts the formulation and implementation of financial accounting procedures, budgeting and taxing practices. And it occurs when a unit of government cannot meet its financial obligations. It requires two-thirds of the governing body to petition the Comptroller who then picks seven members to a board in order to help the local government, and also, they submit their nomination of five persons from the local place, of which the Comptroller picks three. It's in order to get all of the towns that have trouble and that appeal for help to the State of Illinois in an orderly process in order that they may receive some sort of financial help so they do not have to resort to bankruptcies or other drastic measures."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. McNamara, has moved for the passage of House Bill 2796. And on that, the Lady from Cook, Ms. Didrickson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"
"Indicates he will."
"Representative McNamara, does this apply to Cook County?"
"It does not apply to the City of Chicago or Cook County, and it may not apply to DuPage County because it's counties and cities over a million population."
"Okay, so then, it would not help the community of Robbins, that you and I are familiar with?"
"It would help that community."
"How would that be? It's in Cook County."
"Because... It is in Cook County, but it does not apply to the government of Cook County. It applies to any small governments within Cook County." 223 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"That's May 22, 1986 the... Okay, that's the clarification I needed. Thank you."
"Units of local government is what it applies to."
"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this dill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 98 voting 'aye', 9 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Hajority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of Public Finance Second Reading appears House Bill 2898. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 2898, a Bill for an Act to regulate procurement by State Government. It's been read a second time previously and held. There are no Motions filed. Floor Amendment 31 is offered by Representative Keane et al."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane, on Amendment 81."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #1 is the second draft of the Audit Subcommittee's work on rewriting of... and consolidation of the Purchasing Act, and I would move its adoption. Be happy to answer any questions."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane, moves for the adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill 2898. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Amendment be adopted?' All in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"
"There are no further Amendments." 224 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 2898, a Bill for an Act to regulate the procurement of State Government. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane."
"Thank you. Mr. Speaker. As I mentioned on adoption of the Amendment, this is the Audit Subcommittee's second draft of the Purchasing Act. We will be having hearings on this next Tuesday. All parties that have been involved in the discussion on the Procurement Code have been invited to come in and fine tune the draft that we have here. We are actually sending... will be sending this over to the Senate. It will be used and we'll be making modifications over there as it goes along. As we... As I indicated before, when we started this, we have a commitment that the Bill will not go in... or will not go out. We will not try to move it out on final stage unless we have a write off or an approval from the Governor's Office and from the Legislative Leaders. And I'd be happy to answer any questions and ask for a favorable Roll Call."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane, has moved for the passage of House Bill 2898. And on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Young."
"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he'll yield for questions."
"Are the preferences and set aside that were formerly in the Minority and Business Female Enterprise Act contained in this Amendment?"
"Yes."
"And is there a sunset provision on... on those preferences in this?"
"Whatever exists in... Whatever exists in the law today is in in that form. It's in exactly the same form as it is 225 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 now."
"Okay. So, as far as that particular Section of the law, there has been no changes."
"That's Correct."
"Thank you."
"The Gentleman from DeWitt, Mr. Vinson."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Bill may not be in the ultimate perfect final form, but the Sponsors have worked very hard on getting this Bill into a proper form. They have committed to continue working on that effort in the Senate, and I think it makes sense for us to send the Bill over to the Senate at this time so that the process can continue."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Huff."
"Thank you. Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"
"Indicates he'll yield for a question."
"Representative Keane, how does this figure with the... are you still going to have this meeting on the 27th?"
"Yes. In other words, what we have to do is, we have to move a vehicle over to the Senate just to keep up with our deadlines, and people on the 27th... we will be amending this when it goes to the Senate."
"Okay, I see."
"The question is, "Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 113 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page nine of the Calendar on the Order of Business and State Regulation appears House Bill 2600. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill." 226 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"House Bill 2600, a Bill for an Act to restrict smoking in public places. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Terzich."
"Well, we hope everyone's in from their smoke break. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Once again, we have the Clean Indoor Air Act, and this proposed Illinois Clean Indoor Air Act would prohibit smoking except in designated areas in all public buildings including hospitals, restaurants, stores, indoor theatres, auditoriums, meeting rooms in office buildings. Bars, hotel rooms, private offices would not be affected. The reasons for imposing the ban are good and growing. Medical evidence is accumulating that shows second-hand smoke is harmful to non-smokers, even though the damage it does to the healthy smokers is far less than smoking itself. No one has a right to let a personal habit, however cherished and addictive, to endanger the health of others. It makes no sense for Federal and State Governments to require expensive air pollution controls on industry but do little or nothing about indoor air contamination that most people find irritating and harmful. The public opinion is now solidly behind more restrictions on smoking. More than 400 municipalities now have ordinances curtailing smoking. Minnesota passed this legislation similar to the one proposed in Illinois in 1975, and polls show that it has wide public support, and it's well enforced. And a growing number of private corporations now set limits on where employees may smoke. Smoking by workers cost businesses an estimated 43 billion dollars in lost production last year. The long fight to reduce the deadly damage smoking does to this society may have reached the tipping point. Smoking is no longer considered a sign of sophistication, but an unfortunate and unhealthy addition. Millions of smokers 227 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 are... have been able to break the habit. Millions more are trying and hoping to do so. The non-smoker deserves to be free of second hand smoke if they wish, and they now make up 70 percent of the population. All of the bad features of smoking - cause of cancers, fire and so on - and I would like to basically read a letter from one of the constituents that says, 'I'm a healthy, vigorous 52 year old professional engineer who once smoked. In spite of giving up smoking years ago, I find I cannot escape the noxious air generated by the smoking minority within our midst. Regardless of the possible effect on the health of us non-smokers, the negative effect on how it makes us feel is reason enough to prohibit smoking in our presence. If the smoker wants to get together and smoke, as in smoking cars on trains, that is fine. Why should they have the impunity to spoil things for the rest of us who find the air that they generate so disagreeable. It's too bad we need to solve this problem by legislation, but it is very a touchy issue. Most of us non-smokers don't want to offend our smoking friends. The smokers, on the other hand, have a craving of self-satisfaction which far exceeds their concern for their non-smoking friends. One of the firms I consult for has a very poor air conditioning system, many smokers and no off-limits for smokers. I find spending a day at their facility or even an hour extremely disagreeable. Even after leaving the facility, my nose hurts and my head aches for hours. It is not fair that smokers should have all the rights and non-smokers no rights. I urge you to take a stand in favor of us, the non-smoking majority who care about ourselves, our health and our well-being. The smoking industry just last year generated 668 billion cigarettes were produced by the tobacco industry, and to say that they're not polluting our 228 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 society is unbelievable, at the same time, it's an industry that generated 30 billion dollars in revenue. I think it's time that the people of the State of Illinois have their rights to have some clean air, and I would urge your support of House Bill 2600."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Terzich, has moved for the passage of House Bill 2600. And on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Preston."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. We, in the General Assembly, pass all sorts of legislation, most of which does little, if any, good, much of which does a great deal of harm, and probably the overwhelming majority of which does nothing but take up time and spend our constituents' money. This Bill actually does some good. We can protect people from all sorts of diseases that they get that will shorten their lives cancer, heart disease, emphysema, all sorts of respiratory illnesses can be protected from people who are not the smokers themselves but innocent people who have to work or be around people who choose to smoke. This Bill will, in fact, not only lengthen lives but save lives in many cases, from ending those lives earlier than might otherwise be necessary. This is a very good Bill. It costs very little for private businesses who have to implement it, and it does do an awful lot of good. If you vote for nothing else, it is a do-gooder Bill to preserve humanity, children and adults and seniors. Vote for this Bill. It's a very good one. Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Dewitt, Mr. Vinson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. It isn't often that I quote from Democrat Leaders as sources of authority and precedent in good judgment, but on occasion, Democrat Leaders can provide wisdom, judgment 229 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 and good sense. And in that regard, I would like to read you the words of Governor Carey of New York, who said, "A properly ventilated domestic cigar, after a good dinner, is a custom that we should all be allowed to enjoy.. This Bill would deny us that custom. This Bill would deny people the right to even have an inoffensive little cigarette. As a matter of fact, the absence of tolerance on this issue is so great that a person who sits down and simply chews on a cigar at a restaurant without lighting it up is likely to be castigated, on occasion. Representative Nash and I have both been subjected to that lack of tolerance and good will. Ladies and Gentlemen, I want you to think about the nature of our society. I want you to think about a thing called 'The Marketplace' which is what substantially distinguishes us from most of the totalitarian countries in the world that have existed in the past or exist today. Think about what is implied by the concept of a marketplace. It's allowed that a private person can go out and make available a product or a service to other private people as they see fit to enjoy, and if that private person making available that service or that product, if that service or product isn't desired, it's not going to exist any longer, because that... he's going to go bankrupt. That's what the whole concept of a marketplace is about. That's what freedom's about. What this Bill seeks to do is to deny one element of that freedom, one element of that private marketplace. Now, there are infinite numbers of restaurants in this country and this state that deny you the right to smoke. And that's their right. They can do that right now if they wish. As a matter of fact, I've chosen never to go back to Jovans in Chicago because you can't smoke a pipe in that restaurant. I understand the good will that the Sponsors have their 230 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 desire to advance the interest of public health. As a matter of fact, I am in the process personally of quitting smoking. By sometime the middle of this summer, I will not longer smoke for several years. That's my intention, and I'm fully embarked on that, and I'm down to smoking my pipe once a day at this particular point. And I'm doing that for health reasons, as a matter of fact. But I think even at the point where I have gotten past smoking, I'll have the tolerance and the good will to understand that those individuals who do desire to smoke, that's their right to do, and that individual who desires to have a restaurant and let people smoke in their restaurant, that's his choice. That's what freedom's all about. That's the whole issue of freedom. The marketplace is so designed that those of us who don't wish to be in a restaurant where is smoking is not permitted will have the full freedom to go to a restaurant where it's not permitted and to eat in that restaurant. That's what this issue's all about, and that's why we should reject this Bill as a bad intrusion on liberty and a denial of the fundamental lessons of the marketplace. I urge a 'no' vote."
"The Lady from Lake, Ms. Stern."
"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I think Mr. Vinson misunderstands. This is not a Bill that would deny him the right to smoke. This would simply segregate him from his nonsmoking fellows. This is a segregation Bill, Mr. Vinson, and it is a Bill broadly supported in the marketplace. It is a Bill whose time has come. I urge you all to vote 'aye'."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Panayotovich."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Will the Sponsor yield for a couple of questions?" 231 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Indicates that he will."
"Representative Terzich, could you tell me who's exempt from this Bill?"
"The Bill provides that private offices, bars, general working place not frequented by the general public, and hotel rooms, from what I understand."
"Why... Why did you exempt them?"
"Why?"
"Why."
"Because they're... they're in the Bill. I didn't... there was some reason for it that there was some opposition to, you know. the different areas, and these seem to reasonable areas that they were discussing, and so, they were exempted."
"Did anybody talk to you about maybe having a non-smoking bowling alley - one alley one way and one alley another way... might have exempted."
"That was brought to my attention, yes."
"To have one alley... alley one as a smoking lane... Π
"Well, I don't... I don't necessarily know. All I'm telling you what the general intent of the Bill. I don't necessarily set up the rules and regulations, Representative."
"Okay."
"That's set up by the Department of Public Health and JCAR."
"Okay. Second question. Could you... in the Bill, you also mentioned that restaurants are included in the Indoor Act. Could you define a restaurant?"
"No, I can't. I would assume that, you know, Wendy's, "La France", Sangamo Club, Baur's - that's a restaurant."
"Okay. A restaurant... a definition of a 232 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 "restaurant" is a place where meals can be bought and eaten, and then..."
"Representative, the definitions and so forth would be left up to the Department to define..."
"Well, it says 'restaurants', so a restaurant is a place where meals can be bought and eaten. So, what is a meal? A 'meal' is the food that is served and eaten at such a time. And what is food? Something that sustains life and nourishes. So, what we're talking about here is that any place that sells anything from a candy bar to a beef jerky is considered food, which means they must have smoking and non-smoking areas. Is that correct?"
"That's your interpretation, Representative."
"Well, that's the way it reads. Also a place like Rosemont... Rosemont Horizon would have to have a smoking and a non-smoking section. Is that correct?"
"No. that's your interpretation. There's nothing in there about jerky or... All public areas would have to have designated..."
"Rosemont... the U of I..."
"All public areas would have designated smoking areas."
"The U of I Football Stadium would have to have a smoking and a non-smoking section. Correct?"
"All areas would have to have designated smoking areas."
"Chicago Stadium would have to have a smoking and a non-smoking section."
"You're getting warm."
"Well, to the Bill."
"They already have, by the way. It's by local ordinance."
"To the Bill, Mr. Speaker. What we're talking about here - and I definitely have an interest in this. I'm in business, as well as other people here. We're not 233 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 talking about just the restaurant business. He're talking about any kind of business. The real estate office where you have four chairs - two smoking and two non-smoking - and a man comes in to buy a house from you, and there's not an empty seat for him to sit and smoke, you're going to tell him to leave because he can't smoke, throw that real estate deal out the window? Because he wants to have a cigarette, you're going to tell him he has to leave? The Mom and Pop taverns that we have at home - those little taverns that sell maybe hot dogs on the back bar. They are considered restaurants by this Bill. They are going to have to have smoking and non-smoking. What is a non-smoking area? We're talking about in a restaurant, he says just a place put aside. Next thing, do we have to have a smoking and a non-smoking urinal in the men's room? There's enough of us that have enough trouble in the men's room, let alone having to worry about a smoking and a non-smoking area. We're talking about losing business for no matter what type of business you are. It's a hard Bill to enforce. It's an unfair burden. People don't want to smoke, the restaurants have been real nice about it. They've said, "We have non-smoking areas." Somebody, if they say there's no non-smoking areas left, then people will walk out of the restaurant. That guy will lose that business. It's going to be hard to enforce. It's flawed. It looks like it's going to be the thing of the future, non-smoking areas, but it's not the time now. Not in this Bill. There's too many problems with this Bill. I think that Representative Terzich, if he would like to sit down with some people, the Illinois Restaurant Association, a letter from the Illinois Restaurant Association opposed to this Bill. They would be willing to sit down with them and work on it. All I'm saying is it's the wrong time. This 234 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 Bill is flawed, and I urge 'no' votes."
"The Gentleman from Livingston, Mr. Ewing."
"Would the Sponsor yield for... Π
"Indicates he will."
"Representative, does the Bill... how are we going to divide this up if we have a very small restaurant?"
"Representative, that I do not set the rules and regulations. That would be determined by the Department of Public Health. Basically, the Bill provides that where smoking areas are designated, existing physical barriers and ventilation systems shall be used to minimize the toxic effect of smoke in adjacent non-smoking areas. In the case of a public place consisting of a single room, the provisions of the law shall be considered met if one side of the room is reserved and posted as a non-smoking area."
"Could somebody designate their whole restaurant as a smoking area?"
"No, they have to set up a non-smoking area."
"They have to set aside. Alright. Does this cover the General Assembly?"
"The Bill provides... it covers... public places mean an enclosed indoor area used by a public or serving as a public place of work, but not included... limited to hospitals, restaurants, retail stores."
"So, we would... this Body here would also be governed by the rules and regulations set up by the Department of Public Health."
"Well, basically, right now it is already set up in the fact that we have a smoking are and a non-smoking area in the House."
"Would you point those out to me?"
"Sure. The first two or three rows right here and the first two or three rows right over there." 235 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"They're all non-smoking." May 22, 1986
"That's correct, and they're very proud of it."
"Yes. Where is this special ventilation?"
"I'm not in the engineering business, but I assume we have good ventilation in here."
"No... but I... really, Representative... "
"You're asking me... You're asking... "
"Well, we may have good ventilation in a restaurant, but the fact that you're going to have a non-smoking area, you know, we don't know whether that will be covered by the rules and regulations. They may say that we're... "
"Representative."
"... Going to have to put a big cap over here in the center part where we have a lot of smokers and suck up that air. Right? He don't know that."
"Right now, that the restaurants and any businesses are generally regulated both for air conditioning equipment, food and many other regulations, and they have to have adequate air moving equipment. I assume, in their restaurant due to local ordinances."
"But you assume."
"Yes, I believe they do. I mean, I'm not an engineer, SO... "
"One... one other... another question. What is the penalty for a petty offense?"
"A petty offense?"
"Petty offense."
"I really don't know. You're an attorney. I believe it's 50 dollars, fine only. It's fine only."
"Fine only. Okay. And who's going to enforce that, the police?"
"Whoever is enforcing the present ordinances on no smoking. Such as... you know, you can't smoke on public 236 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 conveyances, you know, theaters and places like that. Same enforcement agencies."
"Is that well enforced?"
"To a degree. I would assume it's enforced. I don't which law is supposed to be enforced."
"Ladies and Gentlemen, to the Bill. I personally am a non-smoker. I personally find excess smoke to be offensive. I think that we are moving in this state very well towards a voluntary compliance where people respect the rights of each other, where businessmen who want to áo business, who what to make a profit, have a non-smoking area for those people who want non-smoking. And we have areas for smoking, but we want to come along and we want to meddle in that, and we say government can do it better for us. Ladies and Gentlemen, how many people do we have in our offices day in and day out complaining about the rules and regulations that government propagates to take care of us? They don't work. For any of us who may be... have any concern about public safety. I think we ought to take a great deal of our police time and put it towards enforcing these petty offenders. That's what we should do with our money. Our tax money should hire more police to come in and to... my goodness, you'd have to have a long cigarette. Before the police got there, it would be out. This Bill is not realistic. I t exempts too many places if you really are going to have an effective Bill, but worse than that, the Sponsor only can give us generalities about how it will be enforced. I tell you, you watch it, and you'll find out that your people in your district aren't going to like this Bill if it's enforced, and they aren't going to like to have it applied towards all the private businesses. Ladies and Gentlemen, we need a voluntary compliance with this. We need respect for each other. He don't need this petty 237 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day offense Bill."
May 22, 1986 "I just wanted to... Ladies and Gentlemen, the... while each Member indeed has 10 minutes under our rules, the board... there are many people seeking recognition. I would recommend to you that you keep your remarks brief. Mr. Dunn, from Macon."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"
"Indicates he will."
"It's my understanding that what this dill really does is require a designation of a smoking and non-smoking area in a... in a restaurant or a place that's covered by this Bill. Is that correct?"
"That's right. It's supposed to be posted as a no-smoking area."
"And wouldn't it be an easy thing to do, for example, if... If you chose, in a restaurant - visualize a restaurant - to say... you'd just have a little card that would be on the table that said, 'This table is smoking. This table is non-smoking.' You could do that, couldn't you?"
"I believe you can. I believe many restaurants are doing that at the present time."
"So... and a lot of places are doing this now, and Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, to the Bill. I think that's the kind of point we must keep in mind, here. that most of us go into public places at the present time where there is a smoking area and where there is a non-smoking area designated. What this Bill would do is state the policy of this state - the State of Illinois - to be that there is some merit to designating areas which are non-smoking. There is clear evidence that cigarette smoke is not healthy. Those who do smoke, smoke for various reasons, some because it's very difficult to quit. It's a 238 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 difficult habit to reject, and to those who want to quit and can't, I feel very sympathetic. They most smoke, but to all smokers that breathe and exhale smoked air, and to those who don't smoke, it not only is annoying, sometimes it defects vision, gives headaches, and those who don't smoke have rights and responsibilities and freedoms as well. We've been hearing a lot about rights, freedoms, responsibilities, but what about the people who don't smoke? Shouldn't they be able to sit down in a restaurant and enjoy a meal? Shouldn't they be able to sit down in a present place... in a public place and enjoy whatever activity they're participating in? All this Bill says is that both groups of people have different kinds of interests, and it is a simple matter to designate, in a public place, a special area for each group. And then, they can participate in whatever the activity is to the fullest extent and enjoy it to the fullest extent. The smokers can congregate with themselves and enjoy each other's company and sit in a haze of smoke and enjoy whatever they want. The non-smokers can sit where the air is clear. This is a good Bill. It's not onerous. As I indicated, and the Sponsor has replied, little cards on the table in a restaurant... in a restaurant. I'm sure the Cancer Society, the Lung Association, would supply these cards free of charge. You don't even have to put a sign on the wall, just table by table, and as the room fills and changes or day to day and you find that more or less... more or less smokers come into your place, you can change the boundaries, the perimeters of the designated area. This is not a difficult Bill. It's an idea whose time has come. The Sponsor is to be commended for bringing this legislation to the General Assembly today, and we should all vote green, not only for the freedom of the smokers but 239 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the freedom of the non-smokers. We're a democratic Body. We should all be up putting all green votes on this place and get out of here and enjoy a restaurant dinner tonight in the atmosphere in which we prefer it. Thank you very much. I urge an 'aye vote on this Bill."
"The Gentleman from Will, Mr. Davis."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm a smoker, and I'm not very proud of that, and I would like to quit, and I'm like Representative Vinson. I'm going to try to do that this summer. But I, frankly, listened to what Representative Ewing had to say, and I can tell you that I don't trust the Department of Public Health very much with a broad brush stroke. I don't know what they're going to do or who they're going to put out of business. I don't know what they're going to enforce, because I'm not sure what they do anyway. But nevertheless, I was a little perplexed. I'm a Cosponsor of this Bill, and I was prepared to vote for it, and I was perplexed by the Sponsor's negative response to the restaurant Amendment offered by Representative Klemm last week. And I've listened to what Representative Panayotovich had to say regarding the Nom and Pop taverns and the Mom and Pop stores and the restaurants, and the marketplace does prevail. When I go to a restaurant, I sit in the no smoking section with my family, and I do not smoke. I find voluntary compliance in at least the large chain restaurants and the better restaurants to be almost universal. I do not see that in taverns and places where food is served but people like to smoke and drink and go there to do that. I'm afraid that we're... we haven't defined the Bill large... in a large enough scope. We didn't adopt the restaurant Amendment. I'm for doing it here and doing it in public buildings and every place else, but until this Bill is corrected, and I hope it goes on 240 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 Postponed Consideration, and that that Amendment on the restaurants is adopted. I'm going to vote 'present'. I'm not prepared to put Illinois businesses out of business, restaurants out of business in the state. So, until the Sponsor is willing to discuss that issue, I'm going to vote 'present' as a Cosponsor of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Knox, Mr. Hawkinson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm a non-smoker who believes in the rights of non-smokers, but I think we have a classic situation here of two philosophies of government. We have one philosophy that believes that those rights ought to be enforced by passing a law and making someone a petty offender in order to guarantee those private rights. There's the other philosophy that says, and has been articulated before, that the marketplace ought to work, and I echo Representative Ewing's comments that I believe the marketplace is working. Smokers who are friends of mine and yours are more sensitive today than they were five years ago. More and more businesses do have non-smoking sections. Society in the free marketplace is coming to this point of view and is starting to recognize the rights of smokers, and government does not need to get involved. But in addition to the problems of this Bill as to who is exempted and who is not, we have a claim that private offices and working places that are segregated from the public are exempted. I suggest that that is not true, if you look at the Bill. If you look at the Bill, you will see that the Department of Public Health is given authority over those private offices and working places to come in and make certain that the ventilation is correct and that the atmosphere is correct both for non-smokers and smokers, and I suggest that you're going to have a... Department of Public Health that can go into every office in this state 241 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 I, too, do not that I must and make those kinds of regulations for us. trust the Department to do that, and I think come down, as I hope you Will, on the philosophy of government that we, as free citizens in a free state, can come to a recognition of the rights of non-smokers on our own without government interference, and I urge a 'no' vote."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Flinn."
"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair moves the previous question be put. All in favor signify by saying 'aye", those opposed 'no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it. The previous question being put, Mr. Terzich to close."
"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Unfortunately, all of the statements about government regulation and so on this type of legislation has been adopted in over 400 communities. It's a Bill that's similar that passed in 1975 in Minnesota, and I don't... I've never heard of a restaurant or any business going out of... going out of business in Minnesota or anywhere that this type of legislation has gone into effect that have gone out of business because they have a no smoking area. I would assume that they went out of business because ause they had a smoking area. The Bill is nothing more than the people's rights to have a smoking environment. The Bill is not set up to throw people in jail. In Minnesota, they had approximately 132 complaints which was all handled administratively, that the Department of Public Health is not there to drive business out of our state or anything of that nature, and we also have a Joint Committee on Rules that could also review this. This type of legislation also received the support from the Crane's 242 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Business where they said that they permit employers and operators to improve the air quality of their business and foist any blame onto the Legislature, which is really great. The tobacco smoke be sharply restricted in the work place and public areas, especially restaurants, employers and business operators long ago accepted the evidence that second hand smoke from cigarettes has highly deleterious effect on non-smokers, and the tension between the smokers and the non-smokers in the work place and in public have become a downright nasty subject. The... Only most obtuse or cowardly managers ignored the situation completely, but in addressing the concern of workers and patrons, managers typically met resistance, smokers' rights, I was here first, nothing worse than a reformed smoker, and that sort of dissembling. The result has been a kind of stalemate with smokers living in an increasingly psychotic fear that their cigarettes will be taken from them, and non-smokers pressing their case for non-poisonous air. In that kind of atmosphere, the Illinois employers and business operators are eager to embrace a strong, impartial law that would restrict smoking to certain areas just as there brethren have in dozens of other states around the nation. And Illinois employers and managers find themselves in a position where they welcome regulation of their business and for all of the right reasons, and that's all contained in House Bill 2600. The Illinois Clean Indoor Air Act will improve the quality of air in this state. It will save the taxpayers' money. It will be enforceable, and it will be a law, and I urge your support."
"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye", those opposed vote "no". Voting is now open. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Panayotovich, on a point of personal privilege." 243 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Thank May 22, 1986 you, Mr. Speaker. I may have a conflict of interest on this legislation, and I'm going to vote my conscience. what I believe is right. And also, if this does receive the required number of votes, I'd like a verification."
"The Gentleman from Marion, Mr. Friedrich, one minute to explain your vote."
"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I don't smoke, and I'll be frank with you. It bothers me sometimes when people sitting next to me blow their smoke in my face. We've got a... We've got a restaurant in Centralia where the smoke's so thick you could cut it with a knife, and I'll be frank with you, I don't go there, but that's my privilege. But it's the privilege of the people that want to go there, they can do that. I go to other restaurants. but I can tell you, you can get more cancer-causing breath walking across O'Hare parking lot than you could in that restaurant. Now are you going to... Are you going to outlaw O'Hare Field? What you want to do, if you really think this is going to kill a lot of people, just outlaw smoking in Illinois. Try that one on for size. Now... the Sponsor really admitted that he really doesn't know what's going to come out of this Bill, because the Department of Public Health's going to tell you what the rules are, and I assume they're going to police it. He didn't tell you whether the local cop would have the right to come in and shut down a restaurant because they didn't have a no smoking area. He didn't tell you what would happen in a restaurant if they've got 30 seats and one night he's got smokers and the next night he's got no smokers. How are you going to handle that? I'm telling you, you're... "
"Mr. Friedrich, please. Did you want to finish your sentence?" 244 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Friedrich: "I have completed it. I say he's monstrosity." May 22, 1986 creating a real
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Levin, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Explaining my affirmative vote, I first of all, want to commend the Sponsor for putting together a very practical and, I think, workable piece of legislation. There is no Bill that I have received more mail on from my constituents, and to a man, every single... woman, every single piece of mail I have received has asked me to vote for House Bill 2600."
"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Hill, Mr. Regan, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Here we go again. What more can we do to the business environment in the State of Illinois? We kicked them around with workmen's comp, we kicked them around with unemployment insurance, we kicked them around with taxes. We're kicking them around with an insurance crisis that should be approached and taken care of, and now we're going to add this to it. We're going to tell them they've got to separate their smokers from their non-smokers. What we really ought to be getting down to is addressing the problems of business. Small business in this area creates two-thirds of the jobs in Illinois, and they've been suffering over and over and over. Let's get to the real issue. Let's get to the insurance liability crisis that's killing them, that's strangulating business in Illinois. When are we going to get those Bills out here? When are we going to unlock them, put them on the floor? Let's talk about them. Let's do the right kind of business. Everybody agrees that smoking stinks. Well, so does this 245 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Brookins, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I may have a conflict of interest, here, but I'm going to vote my conscience. Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of this Bill. Just the other day, I was in a restaurant at 76 in Bloomington. I ran all over the restaurant. The smoke was so thick you could cut it with a knife. There was no place in there that I could find any refuge, so finally I left. The privilege one of the other speakers mentioned that he has a right to light up his cigarettes or his cigars and smoke them anywhere, but I think that that right is also to the non-smoker, where he also have the right to sit and eat in peace without having smoke blowing in his face. Yes, when I first went in business, I did give out..."
"Bring your remarks to a close."
"Yes, I first went in business, gave out cartons of cigarettes. I no longer do that, in good interest of clean air."
"The Gentleman from McLean, Mr. Ropp, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Ladies and Gentlemen, if there was ever an idea or a thought that had more universal support in this state, it's this Bill. People are demanding clean air to breathe from birth until death. I think it's tragic that we get involved with dollars and cents when people think that business is more important than the health of the people that live in this state. I can assure you, to those 250 people who, in fact, died last year as a result of secondary smoke, their business is lost to the business forever. I urge you to grant the freedom to those people who deserve to have 246 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 freedom, and that is clean air. This morning, 30 young people from my district came down, young kids who are in grade school, asked whether or not they would support this Bill. To a youngster, they all said 'yes'. Please vote 'yes'."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Piel, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think it was too bad that the one area of this Bill that we didn't get into was the cost. Obviously, to administer an Act like this, it's going to cost the taxpayers of the State of Illinois some money. Well, the figures that I have seen range anywhere from three to five million dollars a year to institute this Act, and basically, what I'll do is just leave it very shortly. What the whole situation is, that the Sponsor mentioned in his opening and his closing statements, Minnesota's Clean Air Act. Well, I'd like to tell you, Ladies and Gentlemen, that this Act is ludicrous. It's completely unenforceable, and in the 11 years that Minnesota has had their Clean Air Act, they have not had one conviction. So you tell me this is identical to Minnesota's, and we're going to have a real good Bill, here? I'm sorry. It's a facade, and so to speak, it's a smokescreen."
"The Gentleman from Coles, Mr. Weaver, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't think any of us would want to go down in the record as being in favor of dirty air, but there's something that concerns me greatly. While I support the concept, and I think it's a very good idea whose time is certainly with us, we have to look at not only the enforceability and those exemptions that are made which does make it inequitable in our society, but we also 247 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 have to look at the cost to the public sector. We have a number of public buildings including city halls, including county courthouses and so forth, that are going to have to undergo some costly renovations. That has not been addressed at all. We may have to form some... some non-smoking areas and some partitioned areas which essentially, we're mandating costs down at the local level. I will support a concept of this type when we can get to an enforceable level, but now, I've got to vote 'present'."
"... Currie, Representative Currie, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. There's been a lot of talk about the economic implications of House Bill 2600. I would remind my colleagues that Crane's_Chicago_Business, a bastion of the free enterprise system right here in the State of Illinois, has editorialized in favor of House dill 2600 on the grounds that House Bill 2600 would be good for the Illinois economy, as similar proposals have been good for the economies in Minnesota and in California. For all the talk about voluntary activities, restaurant going, dining, wining, and bowling, the real heart of this Bill is the work place, the hospital, the place where an individual has to be, not because of altogether free choice, but because that place is essential to earning a living or for other kinds of reasons. Every individual in this state should have the right to a work place that is free of dirty air, and anybody who thinks that he or she can vote 'no' on House Bill 2600 and still stand for clean air, a clean and healthy environment for the people of Illinois, has another thing coming. We should pass this Bill today."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Shaw, one minute to explain your vote." 248 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986
"Yes, I think one... Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think one of the previous speakers mentioned... touched on what I wanted to touch on. It's the cost of this Bill. When you have... You talk about this House, right here, how much is it going to cost us to... what are we put... some kind of partition up here between the smokers and non-smokers? Not only... Not only that, when you talk about the various building departments out in the community, there, they're going to be coming in writing tickets, costing the business people hundreds and thousands of dollars because of the fact that they don't have a non-smoking section. This is a lot of money - City Hall in Chicago, City Hall in Peoria - they're going to have to revamp that. Not only that, and if you don't do it under this Bill, you can file suit. One of the other things that I'd like to ask the... say to the Sponsor of the Bill, you know you talk about clean air and smoke. You know I wonder, why did he become a fireman. It... It concerns me. It... It concerns me greatly, but I think we should all look at the cost of this Bill. This Bill is not right and is not in the best interest of the public and it should... "
"Bring your remarks to a close."
"... And it should be voted down. I vote 'no'."
"The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I'd just like to point out, there are only 14 states in the union that do not have legislation on this issue on the books. Seven of those - seven of those states are... are tobacco growing states, so it just makes a lot of sense to join with the rest of the nation and put this on the books." 249 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"The Lady from Champaign, Ms. Satterthwaite, one minute to explain your vote."
"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, two of the big cost elements that we have heard about recently are the cost of insurance and the cost of health care. If we really wanted to bring those costs under control, one of the best things that we could do would be to totally prohibit smoking. This Bill doesn't go that far, and probably shouldn't go that far, but it is a help if we can create a smoke-free area for most of our working people and the people who have to be in public places for large portions of their time. It would, in fact, reduce both our insurance costs and our health care costs and would be well-deserved for that reason, if for no other."
"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 53 voting 'aye', 54 voting 'no', 6 voting 'present'... Mr. Terzich?"
"Well, yes, I would like a Poll of the Absentees because people are going to see this vote call."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Terzich, asks for a Poll of the Absentees."
"Poll of those not voting. Goforth. McAuliffe. And Wyvetter Younge."
"On this question, there are 53 voting 'aye', 54 voting 'no', 6 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having failed to receive a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared lost. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Business and State Regulation appears House Bill 2685. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 2685, a Bill for an Act to amend the Historic Preservation Agency Act. Third Reading of the Bill." 250 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Hallock."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. House Bill 2685 establishes the State Historic Plaque Program. The purpose of this program is to acknowledge and embellish our state's history. As many of you may be aware, we became a state in 18(18), and many events which have happened here have really helped shape the fate of our nation. This Bill would require that the Department of Historic Preservation establish markers and plaques at many locations where these events occur. It's a good Bill. It's good to promote ourselves, our history, and I'd ask for your support."
"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Hallock, moves for the passage of House Bill 2685. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, *Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye", those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open, and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 105 voting 'aye', 3 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading. Business and State Regulation, appears House Bill 3042. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3042, a Bill for an Act in relation to the application of tax credits under certain state tax Acts. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill is supported by the Petroleum Marketers as well as the Department of Revenue. It deals with the issue of the motor fuel tax, and it simply allows 251 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the taxpayer entitled to a credit or a refund to apply to that credit to current tax liabilities. The same thing is now currently in the law in regard to the sales tax, or at least it will go into effect January 1st of next year, and this would simply extend that to motor fuel tax as well."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton, moves for the passage of House Bill 3042. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, "Shall this Bill pass?" All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open, and this is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 111 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Business and State Regulation appears House Bill 3065. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3065, a Bill for an Act relating to State Government and amending certain Acts therein named. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Harris."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 3065 makes two changes to the Illinois Code. First of all, it codifies a generally accepted personnel practice which states that in intergovernmental agreements which are entered into generally by municipalities where an employee of one municipality is loaned to another municipality, the employing municipality retains the authority and... and work rules over the people who are being loaned. An example would be that, in the visiting municipality, workers might have an extra five or ten minutes off per hour. This requires that the workers 252 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 being loaned would be under the work rules of their employing municipality. The other change it makes is in the General Obligation Bond Retirement and Interest Fund, which is a sinking fund... a sinking debt fund to retire bond debt in the State of Illinois. It authorizes..."
"Mr. Harris, did you go to the school... Giorgi School of Legislation? The Chair can barely hear you. I can... Is your microphone working. Perhaps you could use another microphone. I can't hear you."
"Perhaps... Perhaps if he turns up the microphone, he could probably hear. I'll be... certainly, Mr. Speaker, be able to answer any of the questions that any of the Members might have on this. It should be a very noncontroversial Bill. The second change that the Bill makes is in the General Obligation Bond and Retirement... Bond Retirement and Interest Fund, which is a sinking fund used to retire bond debt. This authorizes the Treasurer of the State of Illinois to buy the certificates of deposits of savings and loans institutions. This portion of the Bill is favored by the Treasurer's Office, by the Illinois Bankers' Association, by the Savings and Loan League, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have on the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Harris, moves for the passage of House Bill 3065. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Young."
"Will the Sponsor yield?"
"Indicates he'll yield for questions."
"Could you explain what the Amendment does again? I didn't quite hear the explanation of the Amendment."
"I'll be happy to. There is a fund in the... in the... a special fund set up to retire bond debt. It's a sinking fund to pay off our bonds. The monies which are deposited in this fund, currently, because of a change we made a year 253 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 ago in the law, currently, there would a difficulty in investing these funds in certificates of deposits of savings and loans associations. This change would... Or this Amendment or this Bill would authorize the Treasurer to buy certificates of deposit from savings and loans associations."
"Would the... Would the same guarantees apply to the savings and loans from the Federal Government that apply to the banks?"
"The guarantees are actually better. There's no diminuition of our safety requirements on the fund. The one... what is does do is it recognizes FDIC and FSLIC insurance for the first 100,000 dollars."
"Thank you."
"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open, and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 112 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Breslin in the Chair."
"Representative Leverenz, for what reason do you rise?"
"Inquiry of the Chair?"
"State your inquiry."
"Now?"
"Not now."
"You know the script."
"House Bill 3135, Representative Hastert. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3135, a Bill for an Act to amend 254 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 Sections of the Illinois Vehicle Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Hastert."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3135 is a redefinition of 'headset receiver'. It's for motorcycle helmet intercoms. What it does is redefine that the receiver is a device to be worn on one ear and enables the wearer to hear or receive electronic voice communications, but not to include any radio broadcast or tape recordings. The purpose of this Bill is a request by motorcycle enthusiasts who do wear helmets that they could be able to transmit safety warnings from one to another when they're riding dual in motorcycles. Rather simple Bill. The Bill has the State Police language in it. The Amendments are agreed, and I don't know of any opposition. Ask for your favorable passage."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3135. And on that question, Representative Cullerton."
"Yes, I recall... I think we discussed this on Second Reading. Representative. I think that originally I was opposed to the Bill, then I figured out that... to the extent this encourages people to wear helmets, because it now... it would legalize something which is now illegal, that is, to have some communication come through a helmet; that a motorcyclist now would be more encouraged to wear a helmet. So, for that reason, I would be happy to support this... this Bill."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3135 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? This is final passage'. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the 255 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 record. On this question there are 110 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. 3298, out of the record. House Bill 3513, Representative Daniels. Representative Daniels - Wojcik. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3513, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Retailers' Occupation Tax Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Wojcik."
"Yes, Madam Speaker and Members of the House, what this Bill does. it provides a sales tax credit for retailers whose place of business is subjected to restricted access because of state highway construction. When we use the word 'retailers', we are looking at restaurant owners, we are looking at small retail shops, we're looking at large retail shops, we are looking at people who have to pay a sales tax. And I'm sure you're all versed with the problem that we've been having throughout Illinois with our great road building that many of these small businesses, large businesses, etcetera, are becoming disenfranchised inasmuch as their customers cannot get into their store. So, this is a tax credit that would enhance them. It's a Bill for retailers. and it's a Bill for taxpayers of Illinois. And I ask for a favorable passage."
"The Lady has moved for the passage of House Bill 3513. And on that question, Representative Currie."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"
"She will."
"Representative Wojcik, this applies to retailers, is that what I understood you to say?"
"Yes." 256 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Hay 22, 1986
"Manufacturers, are they included as well?"
"Only retailers."
"So, is it your supposition then that highway construction outside a manufacturing plant might not interfere with the opportunity to do the manufacturing business?"
"They do not pay us... pay a sales tax, Representative."
"But you wouldn't dispute the prospect that they might find their business interrupted, just as a retailer Bight? How about homeowers?"
"Excuse me."
"Are homeowners included in the Bill? The state highway activities going on outside my house, perhaps causing a lot of noise that might disrupt my afternoon picnics..."
"Representative..."
"... or making it impossible for people to deliver merchandise to my home, am I covered by the provisions of Wojcik: your Bill?" "I cannot hear you. Could we have a little bit of quiet? I think this is a rather serious question that she's presenting to me. Thank you. Now, would you repeat your question?"
"You've answered the first question. Some people doing the business in the state are covered when they are disrupted in their business activity by virtue of state highway construction, but not some other kinds of people. Retailers are covered, but manufacturers are not. What about homeowners? But we've been talking a lot this Session about the problems of homeowners who might be disrupted by noise, other kinds of fuel activities and so forth. It's conceivable that I, as a homeowner, might be stationed right next to a highway construction project. I wonder if your Bill is concerned about the noise that might 257 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL AS SEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 interrupt my summer picnic or the... the construction activity on that highway that might interfere with the health and safety of my family. Is the homeowner covered by the provisions of your Bill?"
"Representative, if the homeowner has a retail sales tax number and she is, in fact, producing within her home, yes, she would be covered."
"So, only people who are involved in retail activities are covered by your Bill, even though many other people might be disrupted by state highway construction."
"Correct."
"How exactly does the credit work? This is a credit against the state sales tax. How does it operate?"
"You compare the month of interrupted service with the prior month."
"And then what?"
"And if the difference in sales tax is more than 20 percent, you can qualify for a tax credit."
"And what... what... So, wait a minute. If it turns out the reason that your business is down in that month when the highway project is going on and it's really not because of the highway project, it's because you weren't open as often or you failed to go the kind of marketing that brings in the customers, you still would apply for this credit, right?"
"Representative. first of all, I think if we look at the construction on the roads, the retailers are not closing their businesses. They are attempting to keep their businesses open..."
"But do they..."
"The problem that we've got..."
"Do they have to sign the little... some kind of notarized warrant to the State Department of Revenue 258 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 ensuring that their hours of operation were identical in the construction month as in the prior month?"
"The Department..."
"What if they.."
"Excuse me. Let me answer your first question. The Department of Transportation has a certified form that is done. They do a study and it is on file. If there's any question regarding the retailer, they can get that."
"But... That's not an answer to my question."
"It certainly is."
"My question is, does the retailer have responsibility to inform the Department of Revenue that the hours of business were identical in the affected as with the prior month?"
"The Department of Revenue can ask for such information as it deems necessary."
"So, we're waiting for Department rules and regulations to cover that kind of problem?"
"Absolutely. As we do in most type of tax credits."
"So, the credit that the retailer gets is against the state sales tax. So, in effect... in effect, what the retailer then keeps under your Bill are the sales taxes paid by the customer. Is that right? If the retailer is eligible for this credit, the way it actually operates is that the retailer keeps sales taxes paid by the customer."
"Exactly, and that's meant to make up for lost income."
"So... To the Bill, if I might. Madam Speaker. It strikes me that this Bill is essentially discriminatory. All kinds of people can be affected in their manufacturing businesses, in the way they like to live their lives in peace, comfort and quiet by the operation of a construction project on the state highway. I don't see any reason to treat retailers differently from any other kind of business or any other kind of individual. Secondly, it seems to me 259 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 there's a basic flaw in the supposition that any decrease in state sales tax collections in a particular retail business from one month to another is necessarily the result of the highway construction project. Finally, it seems to me morally wrong, fatally flawed to say that what the retailer pockets at the end of this program are sales taxes paid by the customer. I go into this store. Do I have any idea that the money that I think I'm paying to the state, to pay for basic human social services, is not going to the state to pay for those kinds of things at all? It's going directly into the pocket of the grocer or the druggist or any other retailer who might be affected by this Bill. I think this is discriminatory. I think it's unconstitutional, and I think it is bad social policy. I think the proper vote on House Bill 3513 is 'no'."
"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen. I rise in support of this Bill, and I think the justification for a retailer credit is the fact that the retailer, more than the manufacturer, much more than the manufacturer, relies upon his accessibility in order to produce sales. If this accessibility is substantially impaired, resulting in less traffic than the prior year, then it's reasonable to conclude that it's due to that lack of accessibility. The Lady, I think, is... wrong when she compares retailers to manufacturers in this regard. Typically, a manufacturer's transportation needs are one of products and does not relate directly to the accessibility or the desirability as does a retailer. Now, the Bill then, if it has a rational premise, we should ask ourselves whether this, in fact, is enough to justify the credits. The retailer's direct primary access has to be restricted for 260 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 more than three months during road construction or improvement. The retailer's liability must be at least 20 percent less than that in the same month of the previous year before the access was restricted. Also, the retailer's direct primary access shall be restricted only if the average daily traffic on the road decreases by 75 percent or more during road construction or improvement. Now, given the fact that the retailer is so dependent upon good accessibility, given the fact that this defines significant and substantial restriction on accessibility, it is not irrational to give this type of recognition to the retailer. The Lady makes a big point out of the fact that this tax credit will, in fact, go in the pockets of the retailers and that somehow that's immoral. Retailers are required to remit their taxes, collected from purchasers, on a monthly basis. They do so for the purpose of complying with the requirement that they, in effect, be the tax collectors. What happens here is that when a person makes the remittance, a tax credit will be granted pursuant to the terms of this Act. There's nothing underhanded here. There's nothing wrong with allowing the remitter to take a tax credit, given the fact that his business is suffering directly as a result of the state's business. And that's the point of this Bill. It requires substantial impairment of access. It relates only to retailers, those most dependent upon access for their business. And it requires that there be a substantial showing of a reduction in business as a result of that impaired access."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Flinn."
"Madam Speaker, I move the previous question."
"The Gentleman moves the previous question. The 261 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 question is, "Shall the main question be put?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the main question is put. Representative Wojcik, to close."
"Yes, Madam Speaker and Members of the House, what I would like to point out regarding this piece of legislation is that it is a bipartisan effort. In the Senate, Senator Zito passed Senate Bill 1551 which is the same concept and almost the same wording. We have been working with the Department of Transportation. We have been working with the Department of Revenue. We are here to encourage small businesses to keep their doors open. It's not discriminatory. We have got the opportunity for people or persons who are in their home, if they have a retail occupation tax number, to be able to have this same discount that everybody else would get. It's a good bill. It's a bipartisan Bill. There's been a lot of work and effort put into this Bill, and there's a lot of construction in Illinois right now, and I move for its favorable passage."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3513 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Representative Cullerton, one minute to explain your vote."
"No, I'm not going to explain my vote. I'm just going to vote 'no'."
"The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Members of the House, I would urge that you give this careful consideration. None of your districts will be immune to this problem. Listen carefully. It is a reasonable attempt to balance the needs of progress brought about by road construction and, yet, at 262 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the same time, protect those retailers who must have vehicular access if they are to do business. I don't know how that could be construed as discriminatory. I don't know how that could be construed as partisan. I would urge a 'yes' vote on this."
"Representative Stern, one minute to explain your vote"
"Madam Speaker and Members of the House, I am concerned that this Bill does not cover service businesses, such as doctors, lawyers, beauticians, who would also be affected seriously by restricted access. I am, therefore, voting 'no'."
"Representative Regan, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you. Madam Speaker, Members of the House. In my district we have had road construction going on for two solid years. One of the retailers that reported to me, he's losing 50,000 dollars of gross sales per month. Now, that's an abuse, and that puts people out of business, and I think this is a good Bill. And I would urge your support."
"Representative Ropp, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. On a very personal note, in my district, where a highway was built, a gasoline station is almost out of business as a result of some slight changes in the traffic pattern. This is certainly a good Bill, should be given consideration because these individuals had no knowledge of what was coming about and this is an attempt to resolve that problem."
"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 62 voting 'aye', 49 voting 'no' and 2 voting 263 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 *present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Ladies and Gentlemen, for those Bills that were on the Order of Second Reading on this Special Order of Business of State Regulation there appears House Bill 3192. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3192, a Bill for an Act in relation to salvage vehicles. This Bill has been read a second time previously. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."
"Any Motions filed?"
"No Motions filed."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative McPike and Friedrich."
"Representative Friedrich."
"Madam Speaker, I'd like to withdraw that Amendment."
"Withdraw #2. Are there any further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #3, offered by McPike and Friedrich."
"Representative Friedrich."
"Madam Speaker, Members of the House, this Amendment will become the Bill which has been worked out with the State's Attorney of Cook County, the Secretary of State, the recyclers and the parts people, and I would move the adoption of the Amendment and then I'll explain it on..."
"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #3 to House Bill 3192. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, "Shall Amendment #3 be adopted?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment adopted. Are there any further Amendments?" 264 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"No further Amendments." May 22, 1986
"Third Reading. Representative Friedrich now asks... now asks leave for immediate consideration of House Bill 3192 as amended. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, the Gentleman has leave. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker..."
"House Bill 3192, a Bill for an Act in relation to salvage vehicles. Third Reading of the bill."
"Representative Friedrich."
"We have a Bill which was put on at the request of the State's Attorney of Cook County and the Secretary of State which is the chop shop Bill, but since it's been in effect, there have been some problems which we're trying to work out to accommodate the recyclers and the parts people without endangering any ability to convict those who are chop shop operators. This has been carefully worked out. As far as I know, it's complete agreement between the State's Attorney of Cook County, the Secretary of State and both organizations. There is something I'd like to read into the record, because sometime that becomes important; because, on these parts, some of them are numbered. And if I may, I'd like to read this into the record. This Bill includes a definition of identification number. Let the record show that the Sponsor and proponents intend that this definition means, a specific grouping of numbers and letters in a series which are placed on a vehicle or essential part by the manufacturer or governmental authority for the purpose of identification of that specific essential part or vehicle. It does not mean, symbolic names, trademarks or logos placed on a vehicle or part which primarily add to the asthetic appearance of the vehicle or part. That's an important thing in the 265 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day identification because Hay 22, 1986 tracing those numbers is an important part of the process of convicting chop shop operators. If there's any questions, I'd attempt to answer them, but that basically is what we're doing here."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3192. Is there any discussion? Representative Brunsvold."
"Thank you. Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"
"He will."
"Yes."
"Representative, how does it change the recyclers in their definition of... in the title of the vehicle?"
"Well, there's a bunch of technical change, but part of it is in the recordkeeping because the recordkeeping now becomes almost impossible. The thing that I think the parts people particularly objected to was the... all the certificates and papers they had to make out; whereas, now they don't have to get them notarized, signed with the name on it and signed that they... that it is... a part becomes under prosecution the same as the other. But it does cut down a lot of the red tape. That's one of the maximum changes. And it excludes rebuilt vehicles sold by the rebuilder to licensees for a maximum of four vehicles which may be sold legally without a used vehicle dealers license. It prohibits the rebuilding of any salvage vehicle without a rebuilders license. Reduces the deadline for entering records from two business days to five days and permits a more practical time frame for recordkeeping. Changes the requirement that a licensee inspectee inspects an essential part before acquiring it to a requirement that the licensee inspects the vehicle or part before accepting its delivery. It deletes the language concerning affirmations on uniform invoice form. Deletes the federal 266 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1966 certification label. Reduces from two years to two months the length of time before a dealership may operate on the property of a dealer whose license was revoked. I can go on. That's the type of thing we're trying to do."
"Okay. No. You say the recyclers are supportive of it?"
"Both the recyclers and the parts people are in favor of this. This is an agreement of all the parties involved, as far as I know."
"Thank you, Representative."
"The question is, Shall House Bill 3192 pass? All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 113 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 32... excuse me, 3484 was held on Second Reading. Representative O'Connell. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3484, a Bill for an Act in relation to advisory boards, committees and commissions of State Government. This Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative O'Connell."
"Representative O'Connell."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amendment #1 incorporates an Amendment to the Illinois Identification Card Act. Adds specifications for the official Illinois identification card and for the Illinois disabled persons' identification card that would make it more difficult to illegally 267 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 duplicate, manufacturer or sell such cards. It prohibits the use of a photograph... I'm sorry, Madam Speaker. I'm advised that this is grammatically incorrect. I would, at this time, ask leave to withdraw Amendment ul."
"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill... Excuse me, he withdraws Amendment #1. Any... Any further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment 2, offered by Representative Piel."
"Representative Piel."
"Leave to withdraw Amendment 2."
"Withdraw 2. Are there any further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment 3, offered by Representative O'Connell."
"Representative O'Connell, on Amendment #3."
"I'm sorry, Madam Speaker. Amendment #3 is identical to Amendment 31, but it has the... it's grammatically correct. It corrects a typographical error which was on page... line 19... line 19 to letter (sic) '12' is substituted for numeral '2', relating to the size of the ID card lettering. I'd ask for a favorable Amendment... adoption."
"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #3 to House Bill 3484. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #3 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Read the Bill on Third, Mr. Clerk." 268 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
May 22, 1986 "House Bill 3484, a Bill for an Act in relation to advisory boards, committees and commissions of State Government. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative O'Connell."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. What this Bill does is it requires the reporting of the establishment, appointments and expenditures of all... that is, all existing and new Executive Branch boards and commissions. The appointing authority must file a number of... of information. Specifically, they must report to the Secretary of State within 30 days of the initial organization indicating the authority upon the which the committee or board was established. It must also report to the Secretary of State within 30 days of any member appointments and it must also file quarterly expenditure reports to the Legislative Audit Commission. And, lastly, all public reports issued by the commission or the board are to be deposited with the State Library. This is in response to an attempt to tighten up the various commissions that were incorporated under the direction of the four legislative Leaders, pursuant to the action we took last Session."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3484. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 3484 pass?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 111... 112 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, for an announcement."
"Supplemental Calendar #3 is being distributed."
"Proceed, Mr. Clerk." 269 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Supplemental Calendar 3 is a Consent Calendar. In 15 or 20 minutes, you will receive a printout of the synopsis of the Bills on the Consent Calendar and, with that, a change of vote record. A vote will be taken later this evening or tomorrow; and, at that time, you will be allowed to change your vote on the votes on Consent Calendar on Supplemental Calendar 83."
"Ladies and Gentlemen, we have been informed that the vote will be later this evening. So, as soon as you get that printout, start perusing the Bills to decide which Bills you wish to vote for or against. The next Bill is House Bill 3567, that appears on Second Reading under the Order of Business and State Regulation. House Bill 3567, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3567, a Bill for an Act in relation to community antenna television cable companies. This Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Cullerton."
"Representative Cullerton."
"Withdraw, please."
"Withdraw Amendment #1. Are there any further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Vinson."
"Representative Vinson."
"Madam Speaker, this has been a jointly done project. I believe this particular version I wish to withdraw. I'd like to confirm that with Mr. Cullerton."
"Withdraw #2. Are there further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment 83, offered by Representative 270 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Piel."
"Representative Piel. Withdraw #3. Are there any further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Homer."
"Representative Homer. Withdraw #4. Are there any further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #5, offered by Representative Mautino and Ryder."
"Representative Mautino. Withdraw #5. Are there any further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #6, offered by Representative Vinson"
"Representative Vinson."
"Yes, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the ... This Bill originated as the result of a controversy between the cable television industry and the public utility industry in Illinois. That problem has now been resolved due to a consentual agreement and the original subject matter of the Bill is removed by this Amendment. What the Amendment does is to solve a problem faced by many farmers, people living in rural areas in Illinois who do not have available to them cable television systems. It only makes sense financially for a cable television system to wire a municipality, a dense living area. And as a consequence, cable television systems do not make available to people living in rural parts of the state access to cable television systems. As a consequence, a new industry sprang up in this country, and what that new industry was, and I'm sure many of you have seen it - it was satellite television dishes which could receive directly from the satellites the transmissions that people living in municipal areas are able to get through 271 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 their cable system. Now, the cost of a satellite dish ranges between two and three thousand dollars and many farmers, many people living in rural areas, have made the investment to be able to get those satellite dishes. The Congress last year enacted legislation which will permit... already has permitted, some people beaming signals to cable television systems to scramble their systems SO that through a normal reception device, a normal satellite dish, you cannot receive that signal in a coherent form and see the picture. One of the things that many farmers and many people living in rural areas are concerned about is how they're going to be able to continue to get television transmission through their satellite dish because of that. As a consequence, we've proposed and the cable television industry in this state agrees that this Amendment is a reasonable solution to that particular problem. What it does is to require the industry to make available, to people who are not served by cable systems, decoders, which descramble those signals, so that people can... can see the... a coherent picture on their television screen and to make those decoders available at a reasonable price, a price related to the cost of production and distribution. It's an Amendment that primarily deals with people who would otherwise be left behind by the technology and the regulation in this field. It makes public service available to them at a reasonable price. And I would ask for your favorable consideration of Amendment #6 to 3567."
"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #6 to House Bill 3567. And on that question, Representative Cullerton."
"Yes, will the Sponsor yield?"
"He will."
"I just want to clear up one question, Representative. 272 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 As I understand the way your Amendment's drafted, this would apply to either a situation where the municipality and the county in which a person resides has not been granted a franchise to operate or, if there has been a franchise awarded, they do not make cablevision... or cable television services available. Is that... is that correct?"
"Yes, that would be correct."
"So, in other words, this would also apply in the City of Chicago, because we don't have cable services available in the City of Chicago."
"Yes, I understand your problems, too."
"So, in addition to assisting the rural areas where there's no cable services available, it also would help the people in the City of Chicago where there's no cable available as well. And to the Amendment. I fully concur with the Amendment, becomes the Bill. What it means is, if someone has gone to the expense of investing in one of these big satellite dishes, right now and in the near future, even more of these programmers will be scrambling their signal. They are trying to break... the cable companies are trying to break the people who manufacture these dishes by not providing the decoders. What this Bill says is they can't do that. They have to provide the decoders. It has to be at a reasonable cost, related to the cost of the manufacturing and distribution. And it doesn't... really, it isn't unfair to the cable operators; because, if they have... if they make the cable service available to those people, then this Bill doesn't apply. So, I think it's an excellent idea. I think Illinois would be the leading state in this issue. We're not going to wait for the Federal Government to act. We should go ahead and do it ourselves. So, I fully concur with the 273 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 Gentleman's Amendment."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Levin, on the Amendment."
"Would the Gentleman yield for a question?"
"He will."
"Representative, I think you have a good idea here. Just a question as far as implementation. The way I understand the Amendment, it provides that the charge shall be a reasonable charge, related to the cost. If there is a dispute as to what is reasonable, is there a mechanism in the Bill for somebody to resolve that issue?"
"Yes, Sir. Well, there is a mechanism. Part of it is addressed in the Bill and part of it is addressed by current law and our current system. The mechanism... the addition of the mechanism provided by the Bill is that the Legislative Research Unit shall conduct a study of what the actual costs are of production and distribution of these devices. That will provide a very authoritative, objective, nonpartisan source for the cost data. Under the law of Illinois, and for that matter, under the law of the United States, we have what is available as a judicial..."
"Representative, can you speak up, because I can't hear you?"
"Give the Gentlemen your attention, Ladies and
Gentlemen.. Vinson: "Do you want me to go back to the beginning?"
"No."
"Okay. We have available already, under the law, a process whereby a plaintiff can sue a defendant to recover from that defendant or get injunctive action, relief against that defendant. And in addition to that, we have what is known as a class action lawsuit. And I would 274 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 anticipate that if the cable companies resist doing what the law says, that a plaintiff and a plaintiff's attorney will get that information from the Legislative Research Unit that I alluded to and shall file a class action lawsuit to defend the rights of farmers and people in Chicago who can't get this service."
"So, it is your intention that this Amendment would grant standing to potenti... to owners of dishes to challenge an unreasonable rate in the courts."
"Yes, Sir."
"Thank you."
"There being no further discussion, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #6 be adopted?' Representative Van Duyne, on the question. Representative Van Duyne."
"I'm perplexed. You don't see my light?"
"I saw your light. I thought you were rising to move the previous question."
"I'm sorry. I... You did make the admonition that there were no other conversat... I'd just like to know from the... Well, will the Sponsor yield to a question?"
"Certainly, Sir."
"He will."
"You say this is a regional Amendment. Will County is a regional area. We have cable in some of our cities. In our rural areas, we do not have cable and I'm wondering whether or not there may... as far as to establish legislative intent, whether or not the city areas that do have cable are in some way, shape or form going to be connected with the paying for these decoders, as you call them."
"No. Sir."
"Okay. Thank you."
"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #6 be 275 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day adopted?" say 'nay. May 22, 1986 All those in favor say aye", all those opposed In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Read the Bill on Third, Ar. Clerk."
"House Bill 3567, a Bill for an Act in relation to community antenna television cable companies. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Vinson."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. We have now described the Bill..."
"Excuse me. Excuse me. Representative Cullerton says he is the lead Sponsor on this Bill. Is that correct?"
"I am perfectly willing to pay a very total tribute to him, because he has very substantilly gone out of his way to serve particularly the farmers of Illinois. And I appreciate that."
"I will recognize Representative Cullerton, on the Bill."
"Yes, I'd certainly appreciate the opportunity to present my Bill, too, and I thank Representative Vinson for allowing me to go first, since I'm the Sponsor. And let me just give a little background. For those of you who are concerned about this fight between the utilities and the cable companies, that has been resolved. This Bill no longer deals with that issue. You don't have to worry about that issue. They've worked out an agreement. Now, what the Bill does is only what we just debated on the Amendment 06, which Representative Vinson has just explained. And for that reason, I move for the adoption... 276 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 or the passage of the Bill."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3567 pass?" And on that question, the Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative Brunsvold."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"
"He will."
"Representative, what is that agreement?"
"You want to know what the agreement was between the cable company. It's not relevant to this Bill."
"I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You have to discuss the Bill that is before you. Is there any further discussion?"
"Be happy to..."
"The question is, 'Shall Amendment...' 'Shall House Bill 3567 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 110 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3568. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3568, a Bill for an Act in relation to state employment. This Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."
"Are there any Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #1... Amendments #1 and 2 lost in Committee."
"Are there any further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Barnes."
"Representative Barnes."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #3 establishes comparable worth. The 277 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22. 1986 payment of equal wages for jobs of comparable value for all state employees..."
"Excuse me. Representative Barnes, we understand that 3 is not printed. 4... You were supposed to withdraw 3 and move on to 4."
"Well, the Clerk came and told me that they made a mistake; that they misnumbered this and that this was really number 3?"
"They suggest that if you just withdraw 3 you can go with 4."
"I'd be very willing to do that, Madam Speaker. Thank you."
"The Lady withdraws Amendment #3. Are there any further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Barnes."
"Representative Barnes."
"Madam Speaker, the board says #5. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amendment #4 to House Bill 3568 establishes comparable worth the payment of equal wages for jobs of comparable value for all state employees, except legislative and Circuit Court employees. Comparable worth is defined as the value of work measured by the skill, effort, responsibility and working conditions normally required in the performance of a job. I would ask for an 'aye' vote."
"Representative... The Lady has moved for the adoption of Amendment #4 to House Bill 3568. And on that question, the Gentleman from Bureau. Representative Mautino."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Since this is a question of comparable worth and we're addressing 3568, I'd request a ruling on whether or not this Amendment is germane to the 278 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day issue."
May 22, 1986 "Representative Mautino, the Chair rules that the Amendment is not germane. Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"
Are there any further Clerk O'Brien: "No further Amendments."
"Representative Barnes, for what reason do you rise? Representative Barnes, for what reason do you rise?"
"Madam Speaker, I would like to appeal the ruling of the Chair. I feel that this Amendment is germane."
"The Lady appeals the ruling of the Chair. The question is, 'Shall the Chair be overruled?' moved to overrule the Chair. The Lady has And on that question, the Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino."
"Parliamentary inquiry."
"State your inquiry."
"I know that the Motion to overrule the ruling of the Chair is not debatable. My question then is, is my Motion in order to lay that Motion on the table?"
"Representative Mautino, we believe that the Motion is debatable, as to that issue. And we think it is more appropriate to address the Lady's Motion directly. Do you have an opinion as to the Motion? Representative Mautino."
"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Yes, I do. The question raised in the Amendment #4 is a question which I'm sure is being debated all around this country. This legislation appeared in our Committee and the mere fact that there could be no guarantee that not only would this philosophy of comparable worth be provided in the governmental section... sector of our society, that there was no guarantee that this would not be a basis and condition precedent for the private sector. very difficult to accept, if, in fact, we establish a I find that 279 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 precedent here that says a certain segment of our society in the wage scale is not being addressed through the process of collective bargaining which we have at the state level and, in many cases, in the private sector. Therefore, my concern with this type of an Amendment being established as governmental policy, the basis being then laid in the private sector, which it is in most cases not workable, I, therefore, rise in opposition to the Lady's Motion as it pertains to the Speaker's decision on this question."
"The Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson, on the question."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The question of the germaneness of an Amendment to the Bill is a question that should be debated on its merits. We all offer Amendments from time to time and it is important than when an Amendment is germane, that the Body enforce the rules of the House that the Amendment is germane. Everyone has an interest in that. Now, what this Bill does, the underlying Bill, is to provide equal opportunity and to assure equal opportunity for people who want jobs. What the Lady's Amendment does is the same thing. It is a comparable worth Amendment as directly germane to an affirmative action Bill as anything one could imagine. I personally do not support the concept of comparable worth, and I personally would probably vote against this Amendment if the Amendment is subsequently declared germane by the House and voted on. But the fact that the Lady has presented what I believe and what anybody who looks at the issue objectively has to believe is a germane Amendment to a Bill, then she's got the right to have her idea heard. Then, this Assembly, when the Chair rules it's not germane, has to take the extraordinary 280 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 action of ensuring that people who come here and are elected here to represent people and to present ideas have the right to have their ideas heard. I believe this Lady has the right to have her idea heard, even though I don't agree with her idea. And I would urge everybody to insist that we have a constitutional, properly functioning, orderly General Assembly that gives everybody the right to their have ideas presented, debated and voted up or down according to the consciences of each Member."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Currie, on the Motion."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. I'm committed to the substance of Amendment 4 to House Bill 3568, but, unlike the previous speaker, I think unfortunately that this is not the right time, the right Bill upon which we should debate the merits of pay equity, equal pay, for work of comparable value, committed though I am to the principle. The underlying Bill is not a Bill that establishes new affirmative action requirements, does not deal with state agency requirements for job entitlement. Basically, the underlying Bill is a reporting one. The Bill deals with the way we report to ourselves and the public about employment programs in State Government and deals with the question of how we make information available to the general public about jobs that are available within State Government purview. The Bill establishes no new requirements to act in an affirmative or any other kind of way for State Government. And it seems to me the parliamentary... Parliamentarian's ruling on this subject is absolutely correct. So, much as I would enjoy the opportunity to debate the substance of Floor Amendment 4 to House Bill 3568, I'm afraid that this is not the right afternoon to do so." 281 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1936
"The Gentleman from DuPage. Representative McCracken."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. If this isn't the time and place, then apparently this is not the people's forum. This is not where the state's business is conducted. What we have here is a ruling by the Chair which defies all prior precedent relative to its rulings on germaneness or single subject. Look at the Acts that are amended in House Bill 3568. It amends the Illinois Human... Human Rights Act. It amends the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois. It amends the Personnel Code. It requires reports to be made relative to affirmative action to determine whether minorities are being underutilized in state employment. This Chair has repeatedly defined germaneness in two... two main manners, that is; one, is the same act being amended; and, two, is there a logical relationship between the subject matter of the Amendment and the Bill as unamended. Yeah, I submit to you that on either theory of germaneness. Representative Barnes' Amendment meets those criteria. It does not purport to amend anything that this House Bill, as unamended, concerns itself with. It is similar or same subject matter. Although this is a reporting requirement Bill in 3568, to some extent, it also reflects the public policy of this state that minorities shall not be underutilized in the personnel of the State of Illinois. This is something that goes far beyond a mere reporting or technical Bill. It expresses the policy of this state relative to the issue. This comparable worth Bill is clearly in the right place at the right time. The Lady, I think, engages in semantics when she says that she is for the substance of the Bill but opposed to this procedure. This falls squarely within the Chair's prior rulings on 282 STATE OF ILLINOIS 04th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 comp... on germaneness, on both counts. On that basis, we should allow the Lady to have the Amendment heard because it, in fact, is germane. The Chair should be overruled."
"Representative Barnes. Representative Barnes, to close on the Motion."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I definitely feel, since the Bill is an Act in relation to state employment, it addresses equal opportunities and affirmative action, I feel that this is the right time to bring this up. One of the former speakers says she believes in the format, but this isn't the time or the place. I was, in good faith, on another Bill with some other women in this Body and was really disappointed when they didn't feel that they should call the Bill down in a Committee meeting and that is why I entered this Amendment, because I feel very strongly in comparable worth. I think this is the time. I think this is the place, and I would ask for an 'aye' vote"
"The question is, 'Shall the Chair be overruled?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Representative Churchill, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I do not believe in the concept of comparable worth, and I don't necessarily think that I would vote for that if that were the issue. I think, as previous speakers have said, that the real issue is whether or not the rulings of the Chair can continue to disenfranchise the Members of this Body from discussing the issues contained in their legislation. Earlier this afternoon, I had a Bill that was word for word exactly the same, an Amendment was exactly the same as a previous Amendment. It was ruled not germane. I think the Chair has been abusing its power in using the germaneness argument to keep us from considering these issues. And 283 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS B4th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 that's why I'm standing up and voting 'aye on this."
"Representative Wojcik, one minute to explain your vote."
"Yes, Madam Speaker, Members of the House, even though I'm not for comparable worth, I have to tell you that I've been here almost four years now and this issue keeps coming up and coming up and coming up. I think we ought to settle it. I think we ought to do it today. I think we ought to get it over with. And that's why I'm voting 'yes', because I want the issue to be taken and to get over with it. Thank you."
"Representative Hallock, one minute to explain your vote"
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. You know, during all the years that I've been in the General Assembly, one issue always comes up and that's comparable worth. I get questionaires at home from all kinds of groups wanting to know where I stand on this issue as well. It seems to me that now is our time to make a statement. Those of you on that side of the aisle who have always espoused a belief in this philosophy have a chance now to vote that way. I would urge an 'aye" vote."
"Representative Ryder, one minute to explain your vote"
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. As you know, during a Committee hearing, there was some great controversy about this particular subject matter, as the Madam Speaker and one of the previous speakers indicated their staunch support for this issue. Some of us may not agree with this issue, but I would simply indicate to that previous speaker, if not now, when and, if not here, where? This is the place to decide the issue. Let's put it on, decide it up or down. But for us to say that the germaneness is not 284 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 the question or to trip over constitutional requirements is not the issue. Let... the process should be served, and it is not. I urge an 'aye' vote."
"Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 43 voting 'aye', 64 voting 'no' and 2 voting 'present'. And the Chair is not overruled. Read the Bill on Third, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3568, a Bill for an Act in relation to state employment. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Flowers."
"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Bill amends the Illinois Human Rights Act, require the Department of Human Rights to conduct a biennial compliance audit of state agency compliance with the Human Rights Act, to compile monthly statistics of underutilizations of minority in State Government and to report semi-annually to the General Assembly. It also requires the Department of Central Management Services to list all vacant positions subject to the Personnel Code and make the list available to the public at the Department of Central Management regional offices and at the Job Service Office at the Department of Employment Security. And I urge your 'aye' vote. Thank you."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3568 pass?' And on that question, the Lady from DuPage, Representative Cowlishaw."
"Madam Speaker, this is a very small thing. But do you suppose we could spell the word 'compliance' right on the board?"
"Mr. Clerk, please attend to that when you can. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman. on the Bill."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 285 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 House. I rise in support of the Lady's Motion. This Bill resulted from five days of hearings on this subject, one of the most extensive set of hearings that I've been involved in since being in the General Assembly. They were joint meetings between the House Appropriations I Committee and House Appropriations II Committee, and we... we discovered a number of things. We discovered that the plans that are prepared by the departments really have no meaning and the... we discovered that the Department of Human Rights apparently, by its lights, does not have adequate enforcement powers with respect to departments of State Government and that's why the Bill is proposed. I would want to highlight one item which I think every Member of this General Assembly should be interested in, because all of us have people in our districts who are unemployed and who are seeking work. And yet, what happens? They go down to the Department of Central Management Services and take a test and maybe they get an A on the test. And they say, "Oh, good, when do I start work?" Well, the answer is, "Don't call us. We'll call you." There might be jobs available in State Government, but they can't find out about them, because... Why, because those jobs are not posted. There is no place where they can go, or where you, as a State Legislator, could go or where anybody could go to find out what vacancies there are that... for which the person might be qualified. And I think that's a very significant part of this Bill that everybody on the floor of this House ought to be interested in. I am pleased to support the Lady in her Motion."
"The Gentleman from Kendall, Representative Hastert."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think we ought to focus our attention on this 266 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 piece of legislation. First of all, it's a rather unique piece of legislation. It came out of an Appropriations Committee. It's the first time I've ever seen a piece of substantive legislation come out of that Committee. It was a so-called Committee Bill. It came out of Committee on a vote, and I'm not sure if this is the correct vote or not, but it was a 12-9 vote. What this Bill does basically is set up a quota system in the State of Illinois. What this Bill does is say that people, not... you know, some people are going to get jobs and some people aren't going to get jobs. What this Bill does is to reproduce the work that the Central Management Service... Department of Central Management Services already does. It's going to cost almost double the amount of money for hiring people in the State of Illinois. It, you know, goes through and it adds onto bureaucracy to try to solve problems that some people perceive we have in State Government. Now, I mean, we've got to... this legislation, you know, didn't go through a regular Committee to hear the process. It went through an Appropriations Committee. I think it's a bad precedent. I think it's duplication. I think it's legislation that certainly is not needed. And, you know, it's just something that we have, we pile on and we pile on government and we put more and more government on the backs of the people. And we put more and more government in state bureaucracy. This is a bureaucracy to check the bureaucracy to check the bureaucracy. And I think it deserves a 'no' vote. I think it needs an astounding 'no' vote and I hope that you would all vote that way."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Currie. Representative Currie."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Members of the House. This isn't a Bill about adding more bureaucracy. It's a 3ill to 287 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 let the people know whether State Government is doing the job it hires us and our state agency departments to do. It's a Bill to let people, ordinary people, know when jobs are available in State Government. One of the, I think, particularly valuable pieces in this Bill is a posting requirement in state job service offices. People who are right now collecting unemployment compensation, many of them people who have been laid off from state employment jobs. These people should have an opportunity to find out whether there are jobs available in State Government, these people first of all, the one's we've already laid off from that state payroll, for whom we are paying unemployment compensation claims. They have a right and a responsibility. We have a responsibility to them, to let them know when and where state jobs are available. This is a job... this is a Bill that's about letting people know what the state record is - do we do the job our statutes say we must, and it's a Bill about letting people know when there are opportunities for employment for all people in State of Illinois governmental employ. The Appropriations I and II Committees are regular Committees of the House of Representatives. Nothing unusual or irregular about them. It seems to me quite appropriate for this Bill to have come through the Appropriations Committee after lengthy hearings with many state agencies, hearings that uncovered problems in reporting, in openness in the public record of Illinois State Government employ."
"The Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative Brunsvold."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'd just like to comment - I'm going to support this Bill. The other day we added in the budget, monies for 43 new people in this agency. They were reprimanded in Committee for not doing the job. 288 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 They're getting statistics now through this process with this Bill, and I think everyone ought to take notice now that next year, if the Human Rights agency doesn't produce, that we ought to take the jobs away. They have promised already that this is what they need to be a good agency. And I think we ought to watch carefully now, because next year in Committee they're going to have to show us that this has done the job for them and they've taken care of the backlog of cases and the information that they've gathered from this Bill will affect a good agency. And so, I think right now that I'm going to support this Bill and with the idea that next year, the agency again is going to come under scrutiny to see if they really, in fact, have produced. Thank you, Mr. (sic Madam) Speaker."
"Representative Flowers, to close"
"Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Bill addresses the weaknesses discovered in the Department of... Human Rights Department. And the hearings with this, we are trying to rectify their problems. It was this Body that enacted the Human Rights Act. Now, let us give it the teeth that it needs to enforce it. I urge an 'aye vote. Thank you."
"The question is, 'Shall House House 3568 pass?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? This Bill requires 60 votes for passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. Excuse me. Representative McCracken, for what reason do you rise? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 57 voting 'aye', 53 voting 'no' and 3 voting 'present'. Representative Flowers."
"Please... Would you..." 289 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Poll the absentees?"
"... please poll the absentees?"
"Poll the absentees, Mr. Clerk."
"Poll of those not voting. Goforth. Klemm. Leverenz. Mautino. McAuliffe. And Wyvetter Younge."
"Representative Leverenz, for what reason do you rise?"
"Vote me 'aye'."
"Vote Representative Leverenz 'aye'. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question... Representative Brookins, for what reason do you rise?"
"Which way... How am I recorded?"
"You're recorded as voting 'aye'. Representative McGann, for what reason do you rise?"
"Would you kindly change, Madam, from 'no' to 'aye'?"
"Change Representative KcGann from "no" to 'aye'. Representative Hartke, for what reason do you rise?"
"How am I recorded as voting?"
"You're recorded as voting "no"."
"Change me to 'aye'."
"Change Representative Hartke to 'aye'. Representative McCracken, for what reason do you rise?"
"If this appears to get the requisite number, a verification."
"On this question there are 60 voting 'aye', 51 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. And there has been a request for a verification. Poll the affirmative, Mr. Clerk."
"Alexander. Berrios. Bowman. 3raun. Breslin. Brookins. Brunsvold."
"Excuse me. Representative Braun." 290 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"Ask leave to be verified."
"The Lady asks leave to be Mr. Clerk." May 22, 1986 verified. Proceed,
"Capparelli. Christensen. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. Daley. DeJaegher. Dunn. Farley. Flinn. Flowers. Giglio. Giorgi. Greiman. Hannig. Hartke. Hicks. Homer. Huff. Keane. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. LeFlore. Leverenz. Levin. Martinez. Matijevich. McGann. McNamara. McPike. O'Connell. Panayotovich. Pangle. Phelps. Preston. Rea. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Steczo. Stern. Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. Washington. White. Wolf. Anthony Young. And Mr. Speaker."
"Do you have any questions of the Affirmative Roll? Representative Capparelli asks leave to be verified. Does he have leave? He does. Proceed, Representative. Representative McCracken."
"Thank you, Madam Chairman. Representative Hannig."
"Representative Hannig is in his chair."
"Representative Preston."
"Representative Preston. Representative Lee Preston. The Gentleman is in the chamber."
"Representative Leverenz."
"The Gentleman's in the chamber."
"Representative Krska."
"The Gentleman's in his chair."
"Representative Ronan."
"Representative Ronan. Representative Al Ronan. The Gentleman is in the chamber."
"Representative Keane."
"The Gentleman's in his chair."
"Representative..."
"Representative Jesse White asks leave to 291 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 verified, Representative. That is granted. Proceed."
"Representative Kulas."
"Representative Kulas. Representative Myron Kulas. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? Remove him from the Roll Call."
"Representative Hautino."
"Representative Mautino is in the chamber. Excuse me. He's not recorded as voting, however."
"Representative O'Connell."
"Representative Kulas has returned to the chamber. Add him to the Roll Call. Representative O'Connell is in the chamber."
"Representative Terzich."
"Representative Terzich. Representative Bob Terzich. The Gentleman is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."
"Representative Flinn."
"Representative Honroe Flinn. The Gentleman is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."
"Representative Richmond."
"Representative Bruce Richmond is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."
"Representative Christensen."
"Representative Ray Christensen. Ray Christensen. He is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."
"Representative Hicks."
"The Gentleman is in the chamber."
"Representative Laurino."
"Representative Laurino is in the nurses station. He's in the nurses station."
"Representative Hartke."
"Representative Hartke. Representative Chuck 292 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Hartke. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? Remove him from the Roll Call."
"Representative Brunsvold."
"He's in his chair."
"Representative Steczo."
"He's in his chair."
"Representative Berrios."
"He's in his chair. May 22, 1986 He is not. Representative Terzich has returned to the chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting "aye'."
"Representative Hyvetter Younge."
"The Lady is not in the chamber. Remove her from the Roll Call. Excuse me. She's not recorded as voting."
"Nothing further. Take it."
"On this question there are 56 voting 'aye", 51 voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. Representative Flowers, for what reason do you rise?"
"Madam Speaker, I would like to put this Bill on Postponed Consideration."
"That will be granted. This Bill will be placed on the Order of Postponed Consideration. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Consent Calendar has been passed out and sheets have been passed out for you to vote. We will allow until 7:20 for you to look over those Bills and vote. Has everybody gotten their Consent Calendar so that they can vote? You know what we're doing now. You have 25 minutes to look over these Bills and vote accordingly. I un... I understand that there are two Bills on this Order that are on Second Reading that need to be moved to Third. We will not do that at this time. We have one more Bill on this Order of Reading, which we will do first, and then we will go back to the others. Representative Vinson, for what 293 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1980 reason do you rise?"
"Madam Speaker, I think that the 25 minute period should run after those Bills are moved to Third SO that in any event are they amended while they're still on Second, that Members will have the opportunity to see what they're actually voting on on Third."
"Very well. We'll do the two Bills immediately then. They are House Bill 1676, sponsored by Anthony Young. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 1676, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act concerning working cash funds and amending certain Acts therein named. Second... This Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"No Floor Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 3525, Representative Didrickson. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3525, a Bill for an Act to add Sections to the Cannibus Control Act. This Bill has been read a second time previously."
"Any Motions filed or Floor Amendments?"
"Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee. And no Motions filed."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"No Floor Amendments."
"Third Reading. Representative Friedrich, for what reason do you rise?"
"Madam Speaker, a while ago we passed 3192 which is on the Consent Calendar. I don't know if I want to run the risk of having it reconsidered or not, but we had to do that because I had to read something into the record. But it is on the Consent Calendar."
"We also understand that there are two Bills on 294 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 the Consent Calendar that are on Third Reading that have to brought back to Second for the purposes of an Amendment. So, we will go to those Bills now. House Bill 2596, Representative Wolf. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 2596, a Bill for an Act to amend the Uniform Criminal Extradition Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman asks leave to return this Bill to the Order of Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment. Are there any objections? Hearing none, the Gentleman has leave. Read the Bill... Are there Amendments, Mr. Clerk? Representative Wolf, for what reason do you rise?"
"Madam Speaker, it's for the purpose of a Motion."
"I see. It's for the purpose of a Motion. State your Motion, Representative Wolf."
"Would the Chair now recognize Representative Churchill, please?"
"Representative Churchill, on a Motion."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would move to withdraw Amendment #2."
"Was it adopted at one time?"
"Yes, I believe it was."
"Then it has to be tabled. The Gentleman moves to..."
"Yes, I would table... move to table Amendment #2."
"... table Amendment #2. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, "Shall Amendment #2 be tabled?" All those in favor say 'aye", all those opposed say 'nay". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is tabled. Are there any further Amendments or Motions?"
"No further Motions or Amendments." 295 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Third Reading. House Bill 3059, Representative Steczo. Clerk, read the 3ill."
"House Bill 3059, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman asks leave to return this Bill to the Order of Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment. Does he have leave? Hearing no objections, he has leave. Are there any Amendment filed, Mr. Clerk?"
"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Steczo."
"Representative Steczo."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. Amendment #2 is offered by myself and Representative Keane and relates to a problem that the private schools had had with the Bill. The Bill deals with the transfer of student records within a certain number of days and the private schools indicated that they had a problem with those because some of those records are held back so they could get tuition that's... tuition and maybe other fees that have not been paid. Amendment #2 indicates that upon the transfer of the student, the private school would provide an unofficial transcript within the 10 days, but an official transcript only after all... all fees and tuition had been paid. I would move for the adoption."
"Question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 to House Bill 3059 be adopted?' Is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment's adopted. Are there any further Amendments?'"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Ladies and Gentlemen, there is one Bill left on the Order of Business and State 296 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Regulation. That is House Bill 3298, Representative McPike. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3298,..."
"While we're waiting, Ladies and Gentlemen..."
"... a Bill..."
"We'll be cutting off the voting on the Consent Calendar at 7:30. So, work towards that deadline. Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3293, a Bill for an Act to amend the Private Detective, Private Alarm and Private Security Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative McPike."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'd like leave to return this to Second Reading for an Amendment."
"The Gentleman asks leave to return House Bill 3298 to Second Reading for an Amendment. Is there any objection? Hearing none, the Gentleman has leave. The Bill is on Second Reading. Are there any Amendments filed, Mr. Clerk?"
"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative McPike."
"Representative McPike."
"Floor Amendment #1 puts a definition into the Act of a burglar alarm system or alarm system. It means any system which triggers an audible, visible or remote signal that requires a response. That is currently the Department's interpretation of the present law. We want it in there for clarification only. The Amendment removes from the Act the installation of fire detection and alarm systems. So those contractors that have been concerned... those contractors... electrical contractors or specialty contractors that install fire alarm systems will no longer come under the purview of this Act. I move the adoption of 297 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 the Amendment."
"The Gentleman has moved the adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill 3298. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, Shall Amendment #1 be adopted?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'nay. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3298, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Private Detective, Private Alarm, Private Security Act of 1983. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative McPike."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Representative Hastert and I are Cosponsors of this Bill and the purpose of the Bill was to provide some relief to the electrical contractors who have for years installed fire alarm systems. This takes them out from underneath the Bill, clarifies the definition that was discussed a minute ago on Amendment #1. I move for the passage of the Bill."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3298. And on that question, the Gentleman from Kendall, Representative Hastert".
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I stand in support of Representative McPike's Bill. The problem... created people before electricians who installed fire alarms prior to this Bill or at the present time had to go get registered almost as a private detective before they could put in a fire alarm. It was tedious, it was burdensome, it wasn't needed. It's a good piece of legislation, and I'd ask for your support."
"Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, 298 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1936 the question is, 'Shall House Bill 3298 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 104 voting 'aye', 5 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Human Services which appears on page 11 on your Calendar, there appears House Bill 1332, Representative Pangle. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 1332, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Emergency Medical Services System Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Pangle."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I ask leave to move House Bill 1332 to Second Reading for Amendments."
"The Gentleman asks leave to return the Bill to the Order of Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment. Are there any objections? Hearing none, the Gentleman has leave. Are there any Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"
"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Pangle."
"Representative Pangle."
"Madam Speaker, I'd like to withdraw Amendment #2."
"The Gentleman makes a Motion to withdraw Amendment #2. Are there any further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Pangle."
"Representative Pangle."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #3 will, in fact, become the Bill, and before this House, before these Members today, we have 299 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1936 probably one of the most important pieces of legislation that will pass this year. It deals with the problem that we've had throughout the State of Illinois for the last ten years in the designation of trauma centers. It's one that, without a doubt will, within the next year alone, if passed, can save as many as 1850 lives. There's been a lot of hard work put into this legislation. There's been hearings held throughout the state. We have met with the Illinois Hospital Association, the Department of Public Health, the Illinois Nurses' Association. It's a piece of legislation that I feel has been worked out, and I move for the adoption of Amendment #3."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #3 to House Bill 1332. And on that question, the Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Tuerk."
"Would the Sponsor yield?"
"He will."
"I haven't had an opportunity to really study this Amendment which is the Bill, but I do know my hospital in Peoria was concerned about this whole issue at one time relative to the various categories, and I forget... the level one, two and so forth, and the big concern was that perhaps they, as a trauma center in Peoria, would be relegated to a lower level and therefore, would have to transport certain patients as far as Chicago, and, that was a real concern. Now, is that addressed in this Amendment?"
"That problem has been worked out with the Illinois Hospital Association, and there is no doubt that... what your problem is has certainly been discussed, and I would imagine that with the legislation that we have today and the fact that you are now a designated trauma center, that that consideration certainly would be followed when the new designation of trauma centers should take place." 300 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Tuerk: Pangle: May 22, 1986 determined "Well, how and when will these designations be the levels, for example the level one, two and so on? Does that come at a later time?" "Yeah, the rules will be promulgated by the Department, the MS Council, and there will be a year in that period for the designation. An application will be filed with the Department as to the qualifications of a hospital to be designated a trauma center."
"Well, what you're telling me, in effect, is there will be other trauma centers outside the City of Chicago who will be designated as level one hospitals. Is that correct?"
"No question about that, Representative. We have addressed that problem and there certainly will be."
"Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Matijevich."
"I only want to rise quickly to commend the Sponsor of this Amendment and the legislation. I was here when Governor Ogilvie, I think, was the first Governor to try to put Illinois in the forefront in providing emergency medical services, and at that time, I believe through Governor Ogilvie's efforts, we led the nation in providing those services. Since then, we have slipped, and I believe through this Amendment and legislation, we can again have Illinois in the forefront. So, I commend Representative Pangle and I appreciate the support of the Members in this Amendment."
"The Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield, please?"
"He will."
"Representative, can you explain - how does this Amendment 301 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 affect those trauma centers currently in operation?"
"It won't affect the trauma centers that are currently in operation until the designation process should begin. The designated trauma centers today will have to apply for the designation of a trauma center to meet the criteria that will be established by the... the rules through the Department, through the MS Council and so forth."
"Well, are you... Are you attempting, by this Amendment, to establish new criteria that the current trauma centers may or may not now have?"
"There will be, in fact, some upgrading of the criteria. I think, Representative, that you're aware of the fact when the trauma center designation happened in approximately 1972, the criteria for designation was one that had a lot of pitfalls, shall I say. There will be... The criteria will be upgraded, and I'm sure that any existing trauma center now would certainly have a leg up on the designation simply because, over the years, they have... if they have been a good trauma center, in fact, they have increased their staffing, their ability to actually deal with trauma center cases. What we will do will weed out some of the trauma centers, in fact, that aren't really qualified to serve as trauma centers."
"In other words, will every hospital that meets the qualification, then, automatically become a trauma center?"
"Well, every one that would meet the criteria would be come at least a level two trauma center. Yes."
"Okay. Th Thank you."
"Any further er discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative White."
"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I took part in some discussions pertaining to this matter in the form of a series of hearings that were held across the 302 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 State of Illinois, and we found that there were a number of hospitals that call themselves trauma centers but no longer possess the staff or the ability to respond to an emergency, and so I stand in support of the Bill, and I commend the Sponsor for bringing to this Body this wonderful piece of legislation."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Wojcik."
"Yes, Madam Speaker and Members of the House, I, too, rise in support of this Amendment and commend the Sponsor for taking the bull by the horns, here. I think in this era of modern medicine, we need to upgrade our trauma centers, and I think what we will be doing now is maintain a higher level of care that people truly expect from trauma centers. I have called up to my own district to speak with some of my hospital people, and they think that it's really an excellent Amendment and an excellent proposal, and so I urge favorable passage of this Amendment."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Flinn. Representative Flinn."
"Madam Speaker, I move the previous question."
"The Gentleman moves the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the main question is put. Representative Pangle, to close."
"Yes, Madam Speaker, I move for the adoption of this Amendment, and if adopted, I move to suspend Rule 37(c) and have it considered for Third Reading."
"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #3 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?" 303 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day
"There are no further Amendments."
"Third Reading. May 22, 1986 Representative Pangle now asks leave for immediate consideration for this Bill to be heard on Third Reading as amended. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, he has leave. Read the Bill on Third, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 1332, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Emergency Medical Services Systems Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Pangle."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think in closing on this Bill, I would like to say that if, in fact, trauma center designation does happen in the State of Illinois, it is a proven fact that it... the minimum - 40 percent of the trauma center deaths in the State of Illinois will decrease. In Orange County, there was a study done before trauma center designation took place. Out of a hundred fatal car accidents after trauma center designation took place, 73 percent of those deaths could have been saved. If, in fact, we spend billions of dollars per year trying to correct the cure for cancer, we have today, with this trauma center legislation, the ability to save 40 percent of the people in the State of Illinois that die at trauma centers. I think it's a good piece of legislation. It's one that we should have done a long time ago. The State of Illinois used to lead the nation in trauma center legislation. In the last 10 to 12 years, we've fallen behind. I think again, if this legislation should pass, and in fact, signed by the Governor, the State of Illinois can be proud because we again will lead the nation in trauma center legislation, and I move for the passage of House Bill 1332."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of 304 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DESATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 House Bill 1332. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 1332 pass?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote "no". Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Representative Mautino, did you seek recognition?"
"Yes, I just wanted to compliment the Sponsor since this has become a extremely important statewide issue, and I know that he's been working it for about four weeks, and this is the end result and rightly SO. So, congratulations, Chuck."
"The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 109... The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 109 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', and none voting 'present. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is is hereby declared passed. Ladies and Gentlemen, with regard to the Consent Calendar, please note that House Bill 2409 has been removed from the Consent Calendar, SO you need not concern yourself about House Bill 2409 at this time. Representative Cullerton is recognized for the purposes of a Motion."
"Thank you. Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I move to suspend Rule 37(g), the Third Reading deadline with regard to House Bills 3263, 3264 and 3265 until Thursday, June 12, 1986 at the hour of 11:59 p.m."
"The Gentleman has moved to suspend Rule 37(g), the Third Reading deadline, with regard to three Bills, House Bill 3263, 3264 and 3265 until June 12 at 11:59 p.m. And on that question, the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise in opposition to this Motion. These three Bills are the three shell Bills which the Speaker has put out in... relative to the insurance crisis, and he would ask that this Body allow the 305 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1936 life of these Bills to be extended into June in order that the summit process may reach fruition. It's been our posture over here that the summit process is merely a... an avoidance of the real issue, which is, let's get the Bills on the floor and vote them. Yesterday, the Senate voted in favor of 10 out of the 11 ICIC measures, and it seems to me that we don't need more time. We just need to let that Senate Bill out of Rules and act on that, up or down. Let's just give it a vote."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Speaker Madigan, on the Motion."
"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, these three Bills are the three vehicle Bills which have been placed on the Calendar for the purpose of the summit on the price and availability of liability insurance. To date, I think the summit has shown good progress. We have moved toward a resolution of the difference among the various sectors of the banking industry, and there is an agreement between the Banking Coordinating Committee and the Attorneys Coordinating Committee. In addition, there have been negotiations between local government and the trial lawyers relative to a 27 page Amendment offered by the local governments. To date, there is an agreement on 20 of the 27 pages of that Amendment. In addition, there have been very good faith negotiations between the attorneys and the... and the business community relative to matters before those two coordinating Committees. I am pleased with the progress of the summit to date. However, we will need more time. That is very apparent, and after there is a final agreement, then we'll need a certain number of days to draft the product of the negotiations. And for those reasons, I rise in support of the Gentleman's Motion that that... that the deadline for consideration of these three 306 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Bills be postponed until June 12, which would be a three week extension for these three Bills. Thank you, Madam Speaker."
"The Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing: Ewing." "Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I also rise in... to oppose this Motion. The real charade of the insurance crisis has become somewhat tiresome. We had introduced in this House, a package of Bills which experts around this state indicated would have some effect on the insurance crisis. But the Speaker, the maker of this Motion, saw fit to keep all of those Bills in the Rules Committee and to put out only his own shell Bill and to continue with his hearings on his proposed plan to solve the insurance crisis. We, on this side of the aisle, have been effectively - at least from his standpoint - shut out of that deliberation, out of the process of trying to solve the greatest and biggest problem facing the State of Illinois at this time. And now, he comes to us when his procedure for handling this has broken down and asks us to give it three more weeks. I say it's not fair. Let him let us have three of our Bills out to address this crisis, and maybe then we would support his Motion to extend. It is nothing more than more political charades on his part without any intention of solving the insurance crisis. I suggest a 'no vote."
"The Gentleman... the Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."
"In all fairness, Mr. Speaker... or Madam Speaker, Members of the House, those weren't the only Bills... the 'package' quote, unquote, that stayed in Rules Committee. There were other Bills that were bipartisan Bills, one to create a joint underwriting authority, the other to... to 307 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEJATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1936 deal with the problems of local government, and the other to deal with insurance rate regulation that in all fairness were also maintained in a Rules Committee and are in the same status that this beloved package that we all get our letters about is in. In addition to that, these quote, unquote, 'shell Bills' that are really designed to be able to address the problem of consensus and the problem of insurance coverage and the various other issues that are before us, aren't Democratic Bills in whole. I'm a hyphenated Chief Sponsor of all three of those Bills, and if we really want to solve the problem, all the diatribe and all the arguments be... back and forth between the aisle really don't make a lot of sense. The problem is there, and the question is whether we're going to solve it. I don't think we've been treated unfairly. Our Bills are the same status as quote, 'their Bills'. These Bills are bipartisan Bills. I think it's fair, and if we really want to address the problem, we're not going to be able to do it by Friday, and I would urge... urge support for this Motion."
"The Gentleman from Will, Representative Davis."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Members of the House. To have a summit, one must have some cooperation and agreement. There hasn't been any cooperation from this so-called single Member summit in the last three weeks. Yes, there's been progress in the local government Committees, all behind closed doors away from the so-called summit, and only recently were the Republicans invited to monitor - just monitor - the discussions that were going on. The speaker who makes the Motion has been directing every step of the way with his particular bias for the advocates of the opposition to civil justice reform or civil justice change in this state. Now, it's just very 308 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 simply said that while his sham and farce summit was being conducted behind closed doors at his direction, yes, the local governments and the bankers came to some basic agreement on a few items, but even the local governments know it's not enough. Even they know that you have to go further, and they have not agreed to anything beyond some partial tort immunity and some sovereignty questions. And that's the 27 page Amendment that Ar. Speaker speaks of when he talks about agreement. There is no agreement on anything. The only agreement that's been reached on this issue so far is the agreement that was reached in the Illinois Senate yesterday afternoon when eight Bills of the so-called package another speaker spoke to passed on to Third Reading with Democrat votes and will pass the Illinois Senate tomorrow with Democrat votes and be in this chamber next Tuesday where the current Speaker of our House will promptly kill all those Bills as he did the Republican House Bills, as he did the Democrat House Bills that tried to deal with this issue. He wants to extend the deadlines because he wants to have the final imprimatur that satisfies his friends in the plaintiffs bar. And he does not want to solve this issue. What he wants to do is stonewall the process to strengthen his hand to produce the product that he wants to solve a problem that's the largest single business issue in this state since 1975 when his Party created the other major business issue in this state. Businesses will close. While the Speaker fiddles, Rome is already burning out there. Let's not extend this. The package is coming over for open debate, and he can put them out of his Rules Committee and we can have a reasonable discussion on Bills and the true summit that will ultimately come on June 25th can proceed, and we will all come out of this with a resolution, if reasonable people 309 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day Hay 22, 1986 are reasonable. This is nonsense to extend deadlines on three Bills for three weeks when nothing is happening because I've been in every one of those summits."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative O'Connell."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would support the Motion for the extension of the deadline. I would submit to the Members that the issues that are... are subject... of the subject of these packages of Bills are extremely complex, extremely diverse as to the principles that are being affected by each piece of legislation and extremely far-reaching. The true and only responsible way for this Body to intelligently discuss these issues is to have the principles that are most affected sit down in the quiet, objective, non-political forum of a closed room and hammer out their differences. I would disagree with the previous speaker in that there have been substantial progress being made in these talks. The 20 pages of the 27 page Amendment were not mundane and not merely cursory agreements. They were detailed analyses of the Illinois Tort Immunity Act, which has not been evaluated for some 15 years. We spent hours going through a litany of Amendments that were submitted by the local governments, and the give and take between the trial lawyers and the local governments were reflective of the true process of negotiation and agreement. If this Body wants political rhetoric and political debate without substance, then it should let the Bills be discussed now on the floor of this House. I would submit we would be talking in a vacuum. The real issues should be decided as a compromise between the parties. There is no clear certainty that any of these Bills, if they were to be brought for a vote on this House, would 310 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 have a clear cut indication as to passage or failure. So that the negotiations should continue, the negotiations have been productive. The other side of the aisle has been welcome to attend these sessions. They have been represented by the staff people from the Republican side of the aisle, and they will continue to be welcome and continue to be present at these hearings that should continue and hopefully will continue."
"Ladies and Gentlemen, I would remind you that you have five more minutes to peruse the Consent Calendar Bills and get your votes in. Five more minutes to vote on the Consent Calendar. The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Daniels, on the Motion."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have listened with great interest to the reasoning behind the Motion to extend, a Motion, by the way, that you should all know is... has been resisted at every occasion in the past three years by the Speaker and also by me, because I think the deadlines have been created for a reason, and the reason being that we must continue to move our legislative process forward. In the past, when we've dealt with such matters of weighty issue as we did last year in medical malpractice, or do you remember in 1983 in the area when we dealt with the income tax extension? We held those meetings after there was considerable and lengthy debate on the House floor and in Committee regarding whether or not we should have a permanent tax increase, and if so, under what conditions. After that was done, the various Leaders got together in working with their Committee Chairmen and Spokesmen, and created what was at that time called, for the second time in history, a summit. And the summit process then, or summit by government was then developed after the successful first summit dealing with the RTA. Now we have 311 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 utilized and we have seen the division of what we call now the new definition of what a summit is. The new definition that the previous speaker would like us to believe, and I quote, Using that in a nonpolitical forum in a closed door room, is the type of summit that the previous speaker wants us to believe is the best kind. He apparently had his remarks written for him, because he was reading from a written script, which means he thought carefully about what he was saying and carefully in picking his words dealing with this nonpolitical forum in a closed room. Well, it's true. That's exactly what's happened on the other side of the aisle. They've created a forum. They've created their definition and the new definition in Illinois Government of a summit and they've closed that process to the outside public because they feel the outside public doesn't understand, nor can it understand exactly what is meant through the legislative process. Hell, I suggest to you that in the last two and a half years, we've accomplished a lot in this Body with a great deal of pride, and we've done that through open participation of both Parties. But yet, the ruling seems now to be, kill the matters in Rules Committee. Rule the Bills nongermane so you can't allow a debate on them, and then, of course, stop overriding the Chair. because if you do that, then your ruling of ungermaneness stands. Throw your meetings into a private process behind a closed door, keep out the public, and then keep out the public interest, because we don't want to be confused by what the public interest may be. Don't consider the jobs issue because it's just too confusing towards the overall insurance issue. So you see, we kill, we hide, we hide in private meetings and now, now above all, we do what Scarlett O'Hara did in 'Gone with the Wind' when she said, 'I think I'll deal with that problem 312 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 tomorrow". And that's what, Mr. Speaker, you are doing. I think I'll deal with that problem tomorrow. Well, I guess you can, because your office is big enough, Scarlett. Your office is big enough to deal with this issue in private, hiding from the public and delaying this for another time. Why not deal like the Senate did? Put it up on a Roll Call tomorrow, run the Bills, see what kind of support is in the House, see if there support's for caps on noneconomic losses, and see whether or not the people of this state want to stand behind some tort reform and see whether or not your voices speak for their voices and don't be afraid of what they say, because I'll tell you, they got some good information for you, so bring it back out in public and climinate that closed door room."
"The Gentleman from Madison, Representative Wolf."
"Madam Speaker, I move the previous question."
"The Gentleman moves the previous question. The question is, "Shall the main question be put?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the main question is put. Representative Cullerton to close."
"I didn't think that it was going to be that controversial when I made the Motion. It seems to me that last year we had a similar situation. We had a crisis last year. We did extend the deadline, and we came up with an agreement that only had, I think, 7 negative votes. I think the same thing will undoubtedly occur this time, and for those reasons, I would think this is the best course of action to take. I'd appreciate a favorable vote."
"The question is, "Shall the House suspend Rule 37(g) with regard to House Bills 3263, 3264 and 3265 until Thursday, June 12, 1986, at 11:59 p.m.? All those in 313 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote "no". open. May 22, 1986 Voting is Representative Friedrich, one minute to explain your vote."
"Madam Speaker and Members of the House, I spent a year of my life reading the the old Constitution and helped write the new one. It never contemplated that laws were going to be made in a closed room like Mr. O'Connell said. It proposed they be done by the Members of this House. I represent 100,000 people, just like Representative Madigan does. I can tell you that I'm their voice here, and I want to be heard on these Bills on the floor of this House. I don't want to have it come out of a closed room like Representative O'Connell says. This is a lawmaking Body, and you're part of it, and you represent 100,000 people and you have a right to be heard, and you're not going to be in that closed room if that Bill passes."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Preston, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think there's some confusion over the rhetoric on this Motion. The closed room that we have heard referred to was a room in which representatives from the insurance industry participated, where representatives of the banking industries participated, where representatives of consumer organizations, where representatives of the organized bar, both the plaintiffs' bar and the defense bar participated... as well as business organizations, consumer organizations and every other kind of organization you can think of. Democrats were represented. I saw Republican staff members at these hearings, and it was open to anyone who wanted to participate, and to think that this was some sort of closed secret process is just not correct and not the truth, and 314 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1936 some... some attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the public or the media. That's not what has been taking place. This has been an open, deliberative process over... over legislation that has been the existing law... that is going against the existing law in Illinois that's been on the books for over 100 years. That can't be done lightly. That has to be done deliberatively and with input from all factions, and that's exactly what the Speaker has tried to It's do and done successfully. It's not yet accomplished. going to take a few more weeks. This should... This Motion should be voted 'aye'."
"Representative Preston, your time is up."
"Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Hinnebago, Representative Hallock, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you. Hadam Speaker and Members of the House. You know, We've been in Session six months this year so far, and I think over those six months, most of us have had the time to form some opinions about this issue. For the past two months we've been in Springfield, plenty of time to actually put those resolutions into action and pass the Bill, but instead we've spent the past two months voting on other Bills which really aren't emergencies. For the past two weeks, we've spent debates on 400 Bills, none of which are really emergency legislation. There really is only one emergency issue this Session, and that's the insurance crisis. Let's deal with it now and be done with it. I urge a 'no' vote." Speaker Breslin: your vote." "Representative Greiman, one minute to explain to note for the
"Yes, thank you. I just wanted Gentleman from Marion who served in the Constitutional Convention that the Constitution has this provision that 315 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 says the Bills must pass both Houses of the General Assembly and they have to be signed by the Governor. So, even... even Mr. Madigan, even the Speaker cannot send Bills directly from his office to the Governor's Office. Even he must bring them to this room. So, Mr. Friedrich, don't worry. Don't worry. You will probably be there as part of that conduit. Thank you."
"Representative Levin, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The insurance crisis is far and away the most important issue before us, and the public expects real solutions, not rhetoric, not what one side or the other say is a solution, but real solutions. The first hearing of our task force which traveled around the state, the insurance companies admitted that these tort reforms will do nothing as far as making insurance more available or cheaper. What we are doing now is a process to come up with meaningful solutions that involve all sectors of the community in an open process the way major issues should be dealt with by the Legislature, and this is a good Motion."
"Representative Friedrich, on a point of personal privilege, one minute."
"Yes, my name was used in debate, and I hope that means that I have a guarantee of being in that closed room. I was just going to suggest the Speaker could call the new Party for his candidate, The Closed Door Party'."
"Representative Vinson, one minute to explain your vote."
"Now, Madam Speaker, a point of parliamentary inquiry."
"State your inquiry."
"Is this going to be the last opportunity the House has to vote on meaningful tort reform?" 316 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1936
"Absolutely not. Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 71 voting 'aye', 44 voting 'no', and none voting 'present', and the Motion is adopted. House Bills Third Reading, State Budget and Appropriations. They appear on page five on your Calendar. The first Bill is House Bill 2586. Out of the record. House Bill 2627, Representative Leverenz. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill... On page five... House Bill 2627, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the DuPage County Water Commission. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Leverenz. Representative Leverenz on the Bill."
"Now?"
"Now."
"It's the one you've all been waiting for. House Bill 2627 would appropriate 100,000 dollars... 100 million, rather... small mistake, to the DuPage County Water Commission For the planning and construction of a water pipeline over the next five years. Twenty million dollars a year. I'll try to answer your questions if I can."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 2627. Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Stange."
"Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Why do I always get standing ovations when I speak? First of all, DuPage County has a very serious problem with DuPage water. We need your vote. It's 100 million dollars. It's going to be divided into five years at 20 million dollars a year. DuPage County gives the State of Illinois approximately 660 million dollars a year in taxes and receives approximately ... 120 million dollars in return. It's the lowest county in the state of services rendered from the state in dollars and cents. Without this legislation, the average... the 317 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 average resident taxpayer will be paying from 25 dollars a month to an estimated 100 dollars a month if they don't receive this 100 million dollars in five years. This pipeline represents precisely the kind of regional project that State Government has traditionally accepted responsibility for in other parts of the state, in water treatment centers, in sewer projects, in lakes and so forth. It is very, very, very important, and the various editorials from the Icibune saying that DuPage County is the richest county in the state, they don't realize they have senior citizens that cannot afford paying 100 dollars a month or over for water. In the City of Chicago, the City of Chicago will generate revenue from Lake Michigan, revenue from DuPage County approximately 27 million dollars the first year and approximately 50 million dollars revenue from DuPage County for buying the water from Cook County. And several of the towns in DuPage for example, Naperville Naperville was very serious on running out of water last year and also this year. In Villa Park, Elmhurst, Bak Brook, water contamination, radium levels now exceed Environmental Protection Agency standards. If water is made available through this pipeline, costs will rise, but the increase can be cut by one-third. I strongly, I strongly, I strongly urge your vote. Why is everybody standing up back there? I strongly urge for your vote. Thank you, Madam Chairman."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Ronan."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise in support of this legislation. I've had numerous delegations from my district come in week after week telling me that they want water in DuPage County. Some day, they may move there. This is the kind of progressive legislation that we have to support. I'll proudly put an 'aye on the board for this 318 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 fine concept. Congratulations."
"The Gentleman... the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Parke."
"Thank you, Madam Chairman. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise also in support of this. I serve a part of DuPage County, and I believe that we all have the right and obligation to look to the whole state, not just looking at a county in... isolated by itself. There are senior citizens and people on fixed incomes that need the relief that this kind of legislation can provide. I ask that we seriously consider all of the Bills that we pass day after day that support all segments of the state. I think this Bill is one that can be applied in the same manner that we look at all of the other things that we come down here to try to bring back to our districts. I think that this is not unreasonable. I think that this is something that this Assembly can provide. I ask for your support."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman."
"Yes, Madam Speaker, I'm sure that we can all feel sorry for DuPage County. I was out in Oak Brook the other day, and I saw the polo fields. They are turning brown. And I said, 'God made polo fields to be green and to thrive.' And besides, this Bill has the dual purpose of helping us lower the level of Lake Michigan. As you all know, we're having a terrible erosion problem along the lake, and if we ship more water to DuPage County, our beaches will not erode as quickly. My only problem with this Bill is it's much too expensive. It would be cheaper to lower the City of Chicago by two feet and let the water flow westward. I'm going to vote 'no'."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Stephens." 319 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th. GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think... that last speaker had a good suggestion. Lowering the City of Chicago would not be a bad idea. The... I'm sure that... Representative Stange asked why you were all standing over there, and I guess maybe you think that we're all embarrassed by this, but I think that what you'll find is 1986 is a united Republican Party. I mean, we have a Leader. We have several Leaders, and our house is in order, and if... if you think that we're all embarrassed by this, well maybe that's... that's something that you need to ponder, because you certainly have plenty to be embarrassed about on that side of the aisle, but I think it's entirely appropriate that a downstate Legislator look at legitimate projects. When the City of Caseyville wanted water improvements, this fine Body decided to amend DCCA'S budget and include one million dollars of improvements for the City of Caseyville, and I think that maybe it might be entirely appropriate for this Body to look at the populous area of DuPage, and if, indeed, they need this water for the next generation and generations to come, that it's appropriate that we consider that, so I stand in support, as a downstate Legislator, of this project. Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Farley."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I also rise in support of this piece of legislation. The Sponsor indicated that there would be a definite revenue benefit to the City of Chicago. Another Representative also mentioned that the lake and the erosion problem, the lake level. The Army Corps of Engineers, which has determined the lake level, came out with a report that it would take at least 15 years to drop the lake water level three inches. So, Mr... Madam Speaker and Ladies and 320 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Gentlemen of the House, the man does have a good idea. And when we talk about a new toll road through DuPage County and the corridor and the increased business, I think that we are going to provide much needed water for... for not only business but residents and lowering water bills out there for residents, and I also think that the Sponsor is no novice Sponsor, but a good Legislator trying to do something for those people out there, and I would hope that... this Bill passes." Speaker 3reslin: "The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Flinn."
"Madam Speaker, I move the previous question."
"The Gentleman moves the previous question. The question is, Shall the main question be put?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'nay". In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it, and the main question is put. Representative Leverenz, to close."
"I'd ask for your 'aye' vote for this worthy Bill."
"The question is, Shall House Bill 2627 pass? All those in favor vote aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Representative Panayotovich, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. So Representative Stange doesn't need a life preserver, I vote 'aye'."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Didrickson, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. On behalf of the residents in the 37th Legislative Suburban Cook District who get back 38 cents to the dollar which is equal to the 37 cents to the dollar that DuPage residents get back, and because in the Village of Flossmoor, Glenwood, Chicago 321 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Heights, Madison, Homewood, et cetera, where we're financing our Chicago water at two percent water and sewer charge and 9.5 percent property tax to finance that department for water service, I will vote 'no'."
"The Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite, one minute to explain your vote."
"Madam Speaker and Members of the House, I think an alternative suggestion might be to take this money and give it to the Department of Public Aid so that they could pay the people on workfare to start a bucket brigade from Lake Michigan out to DuPage County and do it at a savings to the state."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Wojcik, one minute to explain your vote."
"Yes, Madam Speaker and Members of the House, even though the Sponsor is well intended, and I can understand his thoughts towards DuPage County, I happen to represent half of DuPage County and half of Cook County. And, what I'd like to point out is that the residents of DuPage County has voted overwhelmingly, 3 to 1, for a five cents tax in order to pay their water bills and also to bring in the pipeline. They're taking this into consideration, they're working it, they're doing it themselves. I think we can put this money to better use. There's a lot of people in this state that are very poor, and I'd like to see that they get help there."
"Representative Leverenz, one minute to explain your vote."
"Yes, I would ask for more 'aye' votes for a few reasons. I'll recite them, here. In Knoxville, water improvements for two million dollars; Hundelein, water main replacement, five million dollars; next town over, Gray's Lake, 737 thousand dollars, water and sewer lines; a water 322 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 tower in Mt. Pulaski; water improvements in Caseyville he's aboard. I would like to cite, in North Riverside Water Commission water improvements, a million dollars, for a little town. This is a whole county represented by, I understand, ... 7 people in the General Assembly. So, I think there are a number of other... City of Des Plaines, a couple of million dollars, Des Plaines, water tank, three million dollars by someone that apparently is voting "no". From one little town. This has multiple towns and a whole county, and I think there's good reason to provide this assistance."
"Representative Peterson, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Madam Chairman. On behalf of the people in my area from Buffalo Grove, Palatine, Arlington Heights and Wheeling, that are paying 35 million dollars out of their own revenues to get water from Lake Michigan via Evanston, I'm proud to vote "no"."
"Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from Saline, one minute to explain your vote. Representative Phelps."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. To show my consideration for the Gentleman who supported... something less than desperate... this calls... jails, I'll give Stange 'aye'."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz, for what reason do you rise?"
"Nothing yet. We're still working the floor."
"Have all voted who wish? This Bill requires 60 votes for passage. Have all voted who wish? Representative Stange."
"Can we put this on postponement?"
"I'm sorry, Sir. You are not the lead Sponsor 323 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day on this Bill. May 22, 1986 Have all voted who wish? Representative Cullerton, for what reason do you rise?"
"Yes, I just wanted to declare a possible conflict of interest, since my understanding is that this will lower the cost of water to people living in DuPage County, and my family still lives there. I wanted to make sure just that by voting 'yes', that I'm not perhaps benefitting them slightly on their water bill. I wanted to indicate that I may have a potential conflict of interest. Vote my conscience."
"The Gentleman from Madison, one minute to explain your vote."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I recall last year that Representative Vinson was a little upset because the Lady from St. Clair had a Bill that had no limits on it, so he wanted to limit her to a hundred... no, a trillion dollars, as I recall. And I thought it was a little unreasonable, and I think the Amendment was defeated, but this isn't... this isn't open ended. In fact, it's not even near what Representative Vinson wanted to put on his Amendment. This isn't a trillion dollars. This is only a hundred million. Now, we could give these people a hundred million dollars a year for a hundred thousand years, and we would only reach Representative Vinson's limit of a trillion. So, I think this is reasonable. I don't think this Gentleman came in here and asked for something that's not affordable or not doable, he asked only for 100 million dollars for his county. Now, if this... this is a very responsible idea. Now, if Representative Wolf from Granite City had asked for 100 million dollars for Madison County, I certainly wouldn't vote against it, even... even though... Even though it would benefit Granite City, it would also benefit my area. If Representative Younge came in with a Bill for 324 STATE OF ILLINGIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1936 a hundred million - which she does every day - many of her Bills pass this House, and last year one was signed. I believe. But I didn't think that those people that live in DuPage County that would turn down a hundred million dollars simply because they live in a very, very wealthy area and they think their constituents make so much money that they don't need a hundred million dollars. I think they'll be surprised when they go home and talk to their neighbors and say, "Well, what the heck. It was only a hundred million." I think some of their neighbors are going to get a little upset. They can say, "Well, you know, Jack. A hundred million's not a lot to you, but it could have helped a little." Well, so... so I think you should help Representative Stange and some of the poor, poor people in DuPage that simply can't afford another couple of bucks for water."
"Representative Vinson, one minute to explain your vote."
"Just to point out to Representative McPike that there are farmers in DuPage County."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Kulas, Kulas: one minute to explain your vote." "Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think this is a good Bill. I think it just doesn't go far enough. I think when this Bill passes and it goes over to the Senate, that it should be amended, that all retailers in DuPage County that use water from Lake Michigan will get a tax credit."
"Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 57 voting 'aye', 48 voting 'no', and 5 voting 'present'. Representative Leverenz requests a Poll of the Absentees. Poll the absentees, Mr. Clerk." 325 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DESATE 121st Legislative Day
"Poll of those not voting. May 22, 1986 Barger. Goforth. Klemm. McAuliffe. Stern and Wyvetter Younge."
"Representative Leverenz, for what reason do you rise?"
"I'd ask the Chair to send out the State Police to find Hyvetter Younge. I have voted for her constantly. Maybe we could buy her a house in DuPage. Put it on Postponed."
"The Gentleman requests Postponed Consideration. The Bill will be put on the Order of Postponed Consideration. At this time, Ladies and Gentlemen, we will take the Roll Call for the Bills on the Consent Calendar. Hr. Clerk, take the... Representative Braun, for what reason do you rise?"
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. While the Clerk is reviewing the Consent Calendar, I would like to point out to the Members that Representative... former Representative Sharon Markette is with us today. She's standing here right next to Representative Alexander."
"Welcome. Ladies and Gentlemen... Mr. Clerk, the voting is closed on the Consent Calendar. We will take the record on the Consent Calendar, and we will read the Bills on Third Reading for the Consent Calendar in Perfunctory Session. Representative Hallock, for what reason do you rise?"
"I don't believe you took a Roll Call on the Consent Calendar."
"We've decided to take the Roll Call tomorrow because of the time that is involved. Representative Cullerton... Representative Madigan, for what reason do you rise?"
"Madam Speaker, for the purpose of an announcement. The plan now is to adjourn to take further consideration of the Consent Calendar in a Perfunctory Session. Tomorrow will 326 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 be the last day for House consideration of House Bills in the House. My plan is to adjourn at 5:00 p.m. We will attempt to call every Bill on the Calendar, but I think realistically you have to understand that not every Bill will be called. But the plan will be to adjourn at 5:00 P.M. Next week, there will be no Session, so that we had originally scheduled Session days for May 28th and 29th. The Session for those days will be cancelled. However, the Rules Committee will meet on Wednesday to consider Senate Bills for possible consideration in the following two weeks. In addition, there will be meetings of certain of the coordinating Committees of the insurance summit, and then we will return for Session on June 3rd. So to repeat, the plan tomorrow is to adjourn at 5:00 p.m. There will be no Session next week, but there will be a meeting of the Rules Committee on Wednesday, meetings of certain of the coordinating Committees of the insurance summit on Wednesday, and we will return on June 3rd. And with that, Madam Speaker, I move that we adjourn."
"But you first move to read... to continue the Special Orders from today until tomorrow. Is that correct? The Gentleman so moves. So all Special Orders that we have not completed today are being continued until tomorrow. Is there discussion on that question? Representative Vinson, on that question."
"Yes, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, just so the Speaker will understand, we would not resist any effort to suspend the posting requirements so that Senate Bills that were reported out of Rules Committee earlier this week or that could be handled tomorrow in a Rules Committee meeting could be posted for Committee action so that progress could be made on the legislative workload next week." 327 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986
"Very good, thank you. The question is, Shall the House continue the Special Orders from today until tomorrow? All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say... Representative Friedrich, on this question?"
"Madam Speaker, I don't know how you're going to count the votes on the Consent Calendar is you don't take a... take the... 18
"We have announced that we are going to take the Consent Calendar Roll Call tomorrow because of the time involved."
"Okay, I'm sorry. Thank you."
"The question before us is to continue the Special Orders from today until tomorrow. All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Motion carries. Representative... Speaker Madigan moves that this House... Ladies and Gentlemen, we are going to allow time for Perfunctory Session for the Clerk, at which time all approp Bills on Second Reading will be read into the record and all other Bills on Second Reading will be read into the record and held. And then he can... And the Clerk will also read the Consent Calendar on Third Reading and hold them for tomorrows action. Speaker Madigan moves that the House stand adjourned until 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The House stands adjourned until 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning."
"Reading of the Consent Calendar. House Bill 2693, a Bill for an Act in relation to the simultaneous tenure of certain public offices. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3476, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to funds or receiving monies pursuant to the income tax check off system. Third Reading of the Bill. 328 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 House Bill 3527, a Bill for an Act to amend the law in relation to grain dealers and grain warehouses. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3548, a Bill for an Act to require the study of solid waste management in Illinois. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2601, a Bill for an Act relating to life saving organ transplant procedures. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3346, a Bill for an Act to establish the Rheumatic Disease Treatment Authority. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3521, a Bill for an Act to amend the Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities Code. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3530, a Bill for an Act to amend the Critical Health Problems and Comprehensive Health Education Act. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2958, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act concerning direct deposit of public assistance payments. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2971, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act concerning homeless youths. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3017, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act transferring certain functions of the Administrative Office of Illinois Courts to the Illinois Supreme Court. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2044, a Bill for an Act to amend the State Mandate's Act... Bill... a Bill for an Act... House Bill 2044, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill... House Bill 2279, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2866, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2868, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3059, a aill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3175, a Bill for an Act to amend the Public Community College Act. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2596, a Bill for an Act to 329 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 amend the Uniform Criminal Extradition Act. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2969, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1676, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act... House Bill 1676... House Bill 1676, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act concerning working cash funds. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3588, a Bill for an Act to amend the State's Attorneys Appellate Prosecutors' Act. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 500, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3525, a dill for an Act to amend the Cannabis Control Act. Third Reading of the Bill. These Bills will be held on the Calendar on the Order of Third Reading Consent Calendar. Second Readings. House Bill 2712, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Illinois Community College Board for the Probation Challenge Program. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2989, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3071, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Department of Transportation. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3397, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 768... Delete that. It's been read a second time previously. House Bill 1233, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Community College Finance Corporation Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1451, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to River Conservancy Districts. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill... House Bill 2585, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to create the Southwest Illinois Development Authority. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2667, a Bill for an Act in relation to the Department 330 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 of Conservation. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2670, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Antitrust Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2680, a Bill for an Act in relation to economic adjustment programs. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2715, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act relating to the Chicago State University. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2757, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2875, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Highway Code. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2880, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act relating to the Chicago Lakefront Authority. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3034, a Bill for an Act to create the Small Business Litigation Expenses Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3183, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Municipal Code. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3237, a Bill for an Act in relation to persons sentenced to the county jail. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3263, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Insurance Code. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3264, a Bill for an Act to amend the local governmental... Governmental Employees' Tort Immunity Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3265, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Civil Procedure. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3268, a Bill for an Act in relation to the Metro East Mass Transit District. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3327, a Bill for an Act in relation to audits. Third... Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3452, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to the collection of fees and the instituting of liens by sanitary districts. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3455, a Bill for an Act relating to sanitary districts. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3458, a Bill for an Act to 331 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINCIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 amend an Act concerning officers and employees of sanitary districts. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3460, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act relating to the powers and authority of boards of trustees of sanitary districts. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3534, a Bill for an Act concerning the determination of death. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3569, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to revise the law in relation to oaths and affirmations. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3582, a 3ill for an Act to amend the East St. Louis Development Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3612, a 3ill for an Act to amend the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3613, a Bill for an Act to amend the Environmental Protection Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Committee Reports. Representative Terzich, Chairman of the Committee on Executive to which the following Resolution was referred, action taken May 22, 1986, reported the same back with the following recommendation: be adopted House Joint Resolution 172. Messages from the Senate: A Message from the Senate by Mr. Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has passed Bills of the following title, the passage of which I am instructed to ask concurrence of the House of Representatives, to wit: Senate Bills #1562, 1581, 1589, 1603, 1604, 1605, 1606, 1607, 1609, 1610, 1611, 1612, 1615, 1624, 1626, 1627, 1628, 1639, 1659, 1661, 1666, 1700, 1709, 1728, 1734, 1735, 1736, 1737, 1738, 1739, 1740, 1742, 1744, 1745, 1746, 1750, 1751, 1754, 1755, 1747, 1749, 1756, 1757, 1758, 1759, 1760, 1761, 1762, 1764, 1765, 1766, 1767 1769, 1770, 1771, 1772, 1773, 1774, 1775, 1776, 1777, 1778, 1779, 1798. 1804, 1808, 1809, 1565, 1608, 1634, 1814, 1815, 1816, 1822, 1825 1826 1841, 1915, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1934, 1945, 332 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DЕЗАТЕ 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 1946, 1955, 1957, 1961, 1985, 1991, 1992, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2008, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2025, 2037 2038, 2042, 2044, 2051, 2074, 2076, 2077, 2081 2082 and 2084, passed by the Senate May 22, 1986. Kenneth Wright, Secretary.. Messages from the Senate by Mr. Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has passed a Bill of the following title, the passage of which I am instructed to ask concurrence of the House of Representatives, to wit: Senate Bill 1873, passed by the Senate May 22, 1986 by a Three-Fifths Vote. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Senate Bills First Reading. Senate Bill 1548, Hartke, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Police Training Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill... Supplemental Calendar #1. Senate Bill 1519, Keane, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Auditor General. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1520, Ewing, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1522, Mulcahey, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1552, Giglio, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to conductng charitable games. First Reading of the Bill. Senate 3111 1562, Homer, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for job training. First Reading of the Bill. Senate 3111 1565, Preston, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unified Code of Corrections. First Reading of the bill. Senate Bill 1581, Hoffman, a Bill for an Act to repeal the Vehicle Emissions Inspection Law. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1589, McCracken, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Dill 1603, Hastert, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the State Universities Civil Service System. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1604, 333 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 Hastert, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to certain retirement systems. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1605, Keane, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the 3oard of Governors of state colleges and universities. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1606, Richmond, a Bill for an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expense of the Southern Illinois University. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1607, Matijevich, a Bill for an Act making certain appropriations of the Illinois State Scholarship Commission. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1608, Cowlishaw, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1609, Satterthwaite, a Bill for an Act making certain appropriations to the Board of Trustees of the University of Illinois. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1610, Hasara, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Board of Regents. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1611, Hastert, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Illinois Community College Board and the Board of Trustees of the State Community College of East St. Louis for fiscal year 1987. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1615, Hoffman, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1624, Keane, a Bill for an Act relating to procurement by the State Government. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1626, Madigan, a Bill for an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expense to the General Assembly. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1627, Madigan, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the General Assembly. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1628, Madigan, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to various legislative support agencies. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1634, Kubik, a Bill for an Act 334 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 22, 1986 relating to home repair fraud. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1639, Leverenz, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Office of State Treasurer. First Reading of the 3ill. Senate Bill 1661, Terzich, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Insurance Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1666, Hoffman, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. First Reading of the Bill.
"Senate Bill 1700, Keane, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to municipal tax incremental financing. First Reading of the Bill. Senate dill 1723, Deuchler, a Bill for an Act relating to the Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy and its employees. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1734, Leverenz - Bowman, a Bill for an Act making reappropriations to the Court of Claims. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1735, Cullerton. a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Horse Racing Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1736, Barnes, a Bill for an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Office of Lieutenant Governor. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1737, Hastert, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Department on Aging. First Reading of Bill. Senate Bill 1738, Hastert, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Department of Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities. First Reading of the Bill. Senate B111 1739, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the Abandoned Mines (sic - Mined) Land Reclamation Council. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1740, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Illinois State Lottery. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1742, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the General Obligation Bond Act. First 335 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1745, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Judiciary Inquiry Board. First Reading of the Bill. Senate 3ill 1746, Barnes, a Bill for an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Office of the Governor. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1747, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Agriculture. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1749, Hastert, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Children and Family Services. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1750, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Department of Employment Security. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1751, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Department of Corrections. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1754, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Department of Insurance. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1755, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Department of Labor. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1756, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Department of Nuclear Safety. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1757, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to Department of Revenue. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1758, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Department of State Police. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1759, 336 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Hastert, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Department of Veteran Affairs. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1760, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the commissioner of banks and trust companies. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1761, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Bureau of the Budget and the Executive Office of Governor. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1762, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to various state agencies. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1764, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Illinois Criminal Justice Information Authority. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1765, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Court of Claims. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1766, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Environmental Protection Trust Fund Commission. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1767, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Metropolitan Fair and Exposition Authority. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1769, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Illinois Arts Council. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1770, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Pollution Control Board. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1771, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Prairie State 2000 Authority. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1772, Barnes, a Bill for 337 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Prisoner Review Board. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1773, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Property Tax Appeal Board. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1774, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Office of the Commissioner and Savings and Loan. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1775, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the State Employees' Retirement System. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1776, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the General Assembly Retirement System. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1777, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Judicial Retirement System. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1778, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Local Governmental Law Enforcement Officers' Training Board. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1779, Hastert, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Public School Teachers' Pension and Retirement Fund. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1798, Friedrich McPike, a Bill for an Act making appropriations... Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1804, Levin, a Bill for an Act to amend the Asbestos Abatement Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1808, Leverenz, a Bill for an Act making appropriations of the Office of the State's Attorney Appellate Prosecutor. First Reading of the Bill. Senate 338 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Bill 1814, Phelps, a Bill for an Act in relationship to county jails. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1815, Didrickson, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Control Substance Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1817, Levin, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the immunity of alcoholism and drug addiction. 1815, Didrickson, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Controlled Substance Act. Senate 3ill 187... 1816, Levin, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the immunity of alcoholism and drug addition. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1822, Leverenz, a 3ill for an Act making appropriations of the Court of Claims. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1825, Bowman, a 9111 for an Act making appropriations to the Department of Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1826, Bowman - Leverenz, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Board of Higher Education. First Reading of the Bill. Supplemental Calendar #2. Senate Bills First Reading. Senate Bill 1752, Barnes, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Energy and Natural Resources. First Reading of the Bill. Supplemental #2. Senate Bills First Reading. Senate Bill 1838, Countryman, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to limitation of partnership and corporations. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1846, Capparelli, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the Metropolitan Fair and Exposition Authority. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 18... Senate Bill 1848, StecZO, a Bill for an Act in relationship to indemnification and defense of response action contractors. Senate Bill 1848, Steczo, a Bill for an Act in relationship to indemnification and defense of response action contractors. First Reading of the Bill. 339 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day May 22, 1986 Senate Bill 1861, Homer, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1871, Bernard Pedersen - Wojcik, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Municipal Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1873, Nash, a Bill for an Act in relationship to cab driver... taxicabs and liveries. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1875, Churchill, a Bill for an Act in relationship to crimestoppers programs. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1910, McCracken, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Horse Racing Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1913, Nash, a Bill for an Act concerning the review of state regulation and licensure. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1917, Nash, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the General Assembly. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1921, Hoffman, a Bill for an Act in relationship to airport authorities. First Reading of the Bill. Supplemental #4. Senate Bills First Reading. Senate Bill 1929, Steczo, a Bill for an Act in relationship to energy efficient storage hot water heaters. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1930, Harris, a Bill for an Act to amend the Intergovernmental Cooperation Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1939. Correction. Senate Bill 1934, DeJaegher, a Bill for an Act in relation to school holidays and school student records. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1945, Ryder, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1961, Nash, a Bill for an Act to amend the Election Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1985, Greiman, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to create the Illinois Local Government Risk Management and Pooled Insurance Act. First Reading of the Bill. Supplemental #5. Senate Bills First Reading. Senate Bill 1991, Steczo, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. 340 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 121st Legislative Day First Reading of the Bill. Senate Friedrich, a Bill for an Act to amend the Aid Code. First Reading of the Bill. May 22, 1986 Bill 1992, Dwight Illinois Public Senate Bill 2000, Greiman McPike, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the regulation of insurance rates. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 2002, Greiman, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Insurance Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 2003, Cullerton, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 2006, Greiman Preston, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to establish a Military and Naval Code for Illinois and a Military and Naval Department. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 2019, Stephens Kubik, a Bill for an Act concerning the abuse of elderly. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 2020, Churchill, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 2037, Mays Dwight Friedrich, a Bill for an Act relating to the imposition of state occupation and use taxes. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 2042, Daley Bowman, a Bill for an Act to amend the Senior Citizens' and Disabled Persons Property Tax Relief and Pharmaceutical Assistance Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 2044, Giorgi, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Horse Racing Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 2076, Churchill, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to the adoption of persons. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 2077, Churchill, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the adoption of persons. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 2082, Nash Berrios, a Bill for an Act to amend the Election Code. First Reading of the Bill. And Senate Bill 2084, Capparelli, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to trust, trustees and trust companies. First 341 121st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Reading of the Bill."
"No further business, the House now stands adjourned." May 22, 1986 342 03/0987 14:22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX HAY 22, 1986 PAGE 1 H3-0500 THIRD READING PAGE 330 H3-1233 SECOND READING PAGE 330 HB-1332 RECALLED PAGE 299 HB-1332 THIRD READING PAGE 299 HB-1332 THIRD READING PAGE 304 HB-1442 THIRD READING PAGE 174 HB-1451 SECOND READING PAGE 330 HB-1459 RECALLED PAGE 13 HB-1459 THIRD READING PAGE 22 HB-1675 SECOND READING PAGE 219 HB-1675 THIRO READING PAGE 220 HB-1676 SECOND READING PAGE 294 HB-1676 THIRD READING PAGE 329 H3-2044 THIRD READING PAGE 329 HS-2279 THIRD READING PAGE 329 HB-2529 THIRD READING PAGE 138 HB-2585 SECOND READING PAGE 330 H3-2587 THIRD READING PAGE 7 H3-2596 RECALLED PAGE 295 HB-2596 THIRD READING PAGE 294 HB-2596 THIRD READING PAGE 329 HB-2600 THIRD READING PAGE 226 HB-2600 THIRD READING PAGE 226 HB-2601 THIRD READING PAGE 328 на-2627 THIRD READING PAGE 317 H3-2667 SECOND READING PAGE 330 HB-2670 SECOND READING PAGE 330 HB-2680 SECOND READING PAGE 330 НБ-2685 THIRD READING PAGE 250 H3-2693 THIRD READING PAGE 328 HB-2712 SECOND READING PAGE 330 HD-2715 SECOND READING PAGE 330 HB-2757 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-2796 SECOND READING PAGE 220 HB-2796 THIRD READING PAGE 222 H3-2821 RECALLED PAGE 183 HB-2821 THIRD READING PAGE 185 HB-2828 THIRD READING PAGE 8 HB-2864 THIRD READING PAGE 10 HB-2866 THIRD READING PAGE 329 H3-2868 THIRD READING PAGE 329 HB-2875 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-2880 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-2898 SECOND READING PAGE 224 H3-2898 THIRD READING PAGE 224 H8-2937 THIRD READING PAGE 186 HB-2953 THIRD READING PAGE 329 HB-2969 THIRD READING PAGE 330 HB-2971 THIRD READING PAGE 329 H3-2989 SECOND READING PAGE 330 HB-3017 THIRD READING PAGE 329 HB-3022 THIRD READING PAGE 187 HB-3025 THIRD READING PAGE 48 HB-3032 RECALLED PAGE 198 HB-3032 THIRD READING PAGE 199 HB-3034 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-3042 THIRD READING PAGE 251 HB-3043 THIRD READING PAGE 87 HB-3059 RECALLED PAGE 296 HB-3059 THIRD READING PAGE 295 HB-3059 THIRD READING PAGE 329 H3-3065 THIRD READING PAGE 252 HB-3071 SECOND READING PAGE 330 HB-3072 THIRD READING PAGE 49 HB-3078 RECALLED PAGE 3 03/09/87 14:22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 34TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX MAY 22, 1986 PAGE 2 HB-3078 THIRD READING PAGE 5 HB-3089 THIRD READING PAGE 25 H3-3109 THIRD READING PAGE 53 HB-3135 THIRD READING PAGE 254 HB-3162 RECALLED PAGE 136 H3-3162 THIRD READING PAGE 137 H3-3175 THIRD READING PAGE 329 HD-3182 THIRD READING PAGE 31 H3-3133 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-3189 SECOND READING PAGE 47 HB-3192 SECOND READING PAGE 264 HB-3192 THIRD READING PAGE 264 HB-3200 THIRD READING PAGE 32 H3-3217 THIRD READING PAGE 202 HB-3222 THIRD READING PAGE 69 HB-3229 THIRD READING PAGE 60 HB-3237 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-3251 THIRD READING PAGE 45 HB-3263 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-3263 HOTION PAGE 305 HB-3264 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-3264 NOTION PAGE 305 HB-3265 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-3265 MOTION PAGE 305 HB-3268 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-3271 THIRD READING PAGE 93 HB-3290 THIRD READING PAGE 71 HB-3298 RECALLED PAGE 297 H3-3298 THIRD READING PAGE 297 HB-3298 THIRD READING PAGE 298 HB-3300 THIRD READING PAGE 154 HB-3309 RECALLED PAGE 203 HB-3309 THIRD READING PAGE 204 HB-3327 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-3340 THIRD READING PAGE 94 HB-3346 THIRD READING PAGE 329 HD-3349 THIRD READING PAGE 102 HB-3394 THIRD READING PAGE 107 HB-3396 THIRD READING PAGE 206 HB-3397 SECOND READING PAGE 330 HB-3422 THIRD READING PAGE 33 HB-3431 THIRD READING PAGE 73 HB-3452 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-3455 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-3458 SECOND READING PAGE 331 H3-3460 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-3476 THIRD READING PAGE 328 HB-3430 THIRD READING PAGE 75 H3-3484 SECOND READING PAGE 267 HB-3484 THIRD READING PAGE 268 HB-3503 THIRD READING PAGE 207 HB-3512 THIRD READING PAGE 76 HB-3513 THIRD READING PAGE 256 HB-3518 THIRD READING PAGE 158 HB-3521 THIRD READING PAGE 329 HB-3525 SECOND READING PAGE 294 H3-3525 THIRD READING PAGE 330 HB-3527 THIRD READING PAGE 328 HB-3530 THIRD READING PAGE 329 HB-3534 SECOND READING PAGE 331 HB-3548 THIRD READING PAGE 328 HB-3550 THIRD READING PAGE 35 HB-3551 THIRD READING PAGE 79 HB-3552 THIRD READING PAGE 80 HB-3555 THIRD READING PAGE 81 03/09/87 14:22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84TH GENERAL ASSENBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX MAY 22, 1986 PAGE 3 HB-3567 SECOND READING PAGE 270 HB-3567 THIRD READING PAGE 276 HB-3568 SECOND READING PAGE 277 H3-3568 THIRD READING PAGE 285 HB-3568 MOTION PAGE 279 HB-3569 SECOND READING PAGE 332 HB-3573 THIRD READING PAGE 108 H3-3574 THIRD READING PAGE 46 H3-3575 THIRD READING PAGE 82 HB-3582 SECOND READING PAGE 332 НБ-3584 THIRD READING PAGE 117 H3-3585 THIRD READING PAGE 127 HB-3588 THIRD READING PAGE 330 H3-3590 RECALLED PAGE 118 HB-3590 THIRD READING PAGE 125 HB-3596 THIRD READING PAGE 132 HB-3612 SECOND READING PAGE 332 HB-3613 SECOND READING PAGE 332 H3-3619 THIRD READING PAGE 38 HB-3619 DISCUSSED AND POSTPONED PAGE 45 S3-1519 FIRST READING PAGE 333 SB-1520 FIRST READING PAGE 333 SB-1522 FIRST READING PAGE 333 SB-1548 FIRST READING PAGE 333 SB-1552 FIRST READING PAGE 333 SB-1562 FIRST READING PAGE 333 S3-1565 FIRST READING PAGE 333 SB-1581 FIRST READING PAGE 333 SB-1589 FIRST READING PAGE 333 SB-1603 FIRST READING PAGE 333 SB-1604 FIRST READING PAGE 333 SB-1605 FIRST READING PAGE 333 SB-1606 FIRST READING PAGE 333 SB-1607 FIRST READING PAGE 334 SB-1608 FIRST READING PAGE 334 SB-1609 FIRST READING PAGE 334 SB-1610 FIRST READING PAGE 334 58-1611 FIRST READING PAGE 334 SB-1615 FIRST READING PAGE 334 SB-1624 FIRST READING PAGE 334 SB-1626 FIRST READING PAGE 334 SB-1627 FIRST READING PAGE 334 SB-1628 FIRST READING PAGE 334 SB-1634 FIRST READING PAGE 334 SB-1639 FIRST READING PAGE 334 SB-1661 FIRST READING PAGE 334 SB-1666 FIRST READING PAGE 334 SB-1700 FIRST READING PAGE 335 SB-1728 FIRST READING PAGE 335 SB-1734 FIRST READING PAGE 335 SB-1735 FIRST READING PAGE 335 SB-1736 FIRST READING PAGE 335 SB-1737 FIRST READING PAGE 335 SB-1738 FIRST READING PAGE 335 SB-1739 FIRST READING PAGE 335 SB-1740 FIRST READING PAGE 335 SB-1742 FIRST READING PAGE 335 SB-1745 FIRST READING PAGE 335 SB-1746 FIRST READING PAGE 335 S3-1747 FIRST READING PAGE 335 SB-1749 FIRST READING PAGE 336 SB-1750 FIRST READING PAGE 336 SB-1751 FIRST READING PAGE 336 SB-1752 FIRST READING PAGE 339 SB-1754 FIRST READING PAGE 336 03/09/87 14:22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX MAY 22, 1986 PAGE 4 SB-1755 FIRST READING PAGE 336 SB-1756 FIRST READING PAGE 336 SB-1757 FIRST READING PAGE 336 SB-1758 FIRST READING PAGE 336 SB-1759 FIRST READING PAGE 336 SB-1760 FIRST READING PAGE 336 S3-1761 FIRST READING PAGE 337 SB-1762 FIRST READING PAGE 336 SB-1764 FIRST READING PAGE 336 SB-1765 FIRST READING PAGE 337 SB-1766 FIRST READING PAGE 337 SB-1767 FIRST READING PAGE 337 SB-1769 FIRST READING PAGE 337 SB-1770 FIRST READING PAGE 337 SB-1771 FIRST READING PAGE 337 SB-1772 FIRST READING PAGE 337 SB-1773 FIRST READING PAGE 337 SB-1774 FIRST READING PAGE 337 SB-1775 FIRST READING PAGE 338 SB-1776 FIRST READING PAGE 338 SB-1777 FIRST READING PAGE 338 SB-1778 FIRST READING PAGE 338 SB-1779 FIRST READING PAGE 338 SB-1798 FIRST READING PAGE 338 SB-1804 FIRST READING PAGE 338 SB-1808 FIRST READING PAGE 338 SB-1814 FIRST READING PAGE 338 SB-1815 FIRST READING PAGE 338 SB-1816 FIRST READING PAGE 339 SB-1817 FIRST READING PAGE 338 SB-1822 FIRST READING PAGE 339 SB-1825 FIRST READING PAGE 339 SB-1826 FIRST READING PAGE 339 SB-1838 FIRST READING PAGE 339 SB-1846 FIRST READING PAGE 339 SB-1848 FIRST READING PAGE 339 SB-1861 FIRST READING PAGE 339 SB-1871 FIRST READING PAGE 339 SB-1873 FIRST READING PAGE 339 SB-1875 FIRST READING PAGE 339 SB-1910 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-1913 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-1917 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-1921 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-1929 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-1930 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-1934 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-1939 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-1945 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-1961 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-1985 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-1991 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-1992 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-2000 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-2002 FIRST READING PAGE 340 SB-2003 FIRST READING PAGE 341 SB-2006 FIRST READING PAGE 341 SB-2019 FIRST READING PAGE 341 SB-2020 FIRST READING PAGE 341 SB-2037 FIRST READING PAGE 341 SB-2042 FIRST READING PAGE 341 SB-2044 FIRST READING PAGE 341 SB-2076 FIRST READING PAGE 341 SB-2077 FIRST READING PAGE 341 SB-2082 FIRST READING PAGE 341 03/09/87 14:22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX MAY 22, 1986 SB-2084 FIRST READING PAGE 5 PAGE 341 SUBJECT MATTER REPRESENTATIVE MCPIKE - HOUSE TO ORDER REVEREND HOWARD MILKMAN - PRAYER PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ROLL CALL FOR ATTENDANCE AGREED RESOLUTIONS DEATH RESOLUTIONS GENERAL RESOLUTIONS MESSAGE FROM SENATE ADJOURNMENT PERFUNCTORY SESSION COMMITTEE REPORTS MESSAGES FROM SENATE PERFUNCTORY SESSION - ADJOURNMENT PAGE 1 PAGE 1 PAGE 2 PAGE 2 PAGE 2 PAGE 3 PAGE 3 PAGE 6 PAGE 328 PAGE 328 PAGE 332 PAGE 332 PAGE 341