Illinois House Floor Debate — May 20, 1987

"The hour of 9:00 having arrived, the House will be in Session. Members will be at their Chair. The Chaplain for today will be the Reverend Richard H. Brady, Pastor of Grace Baptist Church Academy of Springfield. Pastor Brady is a guest of Representative Karen Hasara. The guests in the Gallery may wish to rise and join us for the invocation. Reverend Brady."

"Father, we thank You this morning that we can begin this day in our Session and acknowledging You, coming directly to You, we are thankful that we have the freedoms in this country to call upon our God. And we ask this morning, particularly, that You give wisdom to these men and women. as our lawmakers, we know they need wisdom today. We know they'll be voting, discussion. Perhaps in some areas, very critical areas. We would pray that You would give each of them a special wisdom as they represent the people of this State to vote not only their convictions, but that which is right and we trust that which would please Thee. We thank Thee for the freedoms that You have given to us. We pray that through this Body, these freedoms may be maintained and sustained during these days of decision making. We thank You that we can look to Thee. We thank You that You have laws. We thank You that You have made these laws available to us. And may our decisions today in these weeks, in these Sessions, reflect, we trust, the morality and the convictions and the freedoms that You would have us to have as lawmakers. So, we thank Thee today for this day. Give wisdom again, we pray, to each one. May we glorify You, and we thank You for this because we ask it in Jesus' name. Amen."

"The Gentleman from McLean, Mr. Ropp, to lead us in the Pledge to the Flag." 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United May 20, 1987 States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Mr. Matijevich are there any excused absences on the Democratic side?"

"Good morning. None on this side of the aisle, Mr. Speaker."

"Mr. Piel are there any excused absences on the Republican side?"

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. Will the record show Representative Tuerk is excused today for medical reasons. And also ..."

"What's his condition today?"

"Current update. The doctor has got him walking about 400 feet, 4 times a day. Fred is in very good spirits. He hopes to be out of the hospital by the first part of next week, he is hoping by Friday or Saturday. But let's say the first part of next week. And also ..."

"He's walking 400 feet a day? That's more than most of the Members who are here."

"Four times a day. That's true. That's true. And one thing he wanted to convey to everybody, that the medicine that we send him in our cards, letters and the flowers and everything, he said was the best medicine he could have had. He really appreciated it. In fact probably one of the best ones was the one Mr. Van Duyne sent him dealing with something that Van Duyne didn't know he had any heart, or something like that. He said he really got a laugh out of that one."

"Let the record reflect the excused absence of Representative Tuerk. Mr. Clerk, take the record. 117 Members having answered to the call of a quorum, a quorum is present. Messages from the Senate." 2  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"Message from the Senate by Ms. Hawker, Secretary. Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives the Senate has passed Bills of the following title. The passage of which I am instructed to ask concurrence of the House of Representatives, to wit; Senate Bills 20, 23, 132, 208, 240, 277, 278, 282, 298, 350, 372, 379, 382, 333, 384, 387, 339, 390, 403, 404, 405, 410, 411, 419, 440, 441, 448, 449, 450, 457, 458, 460, 461, 465, 466, 467, 472, 476, 481, 432, 436, 483, 489, 490, 491, 492, 493, 495, 502, 508, 531, 545, 546, 548, 549, 553, 557, 582, 585, 587, 596, 609, 616, 617, 618, 635, 637, 639, 641, 642, 643, 644, 646, 653, 667, 668, 670, 682, 684, 690, 695, 707, 731, 752, 759, 766, 769, 779, 780, 781, 788, 789, 792, 806, 808, 819, 826, 832, 346, 857, 892, 893, 894, 899, 904, 906, 908, 912, 913, 915, 916, 918, 921, 922, 923, 927, 928, 929, 930, 932, 933, 934, 936, 942, 945, 949, 950, 955, 956, 958, 959, 960, 961, 973, 991, 992, 993, 1006, 1012, 1018, 1025, 1031, 1037, 1040, 1046, 1051, 1052, 1073, 1085, 1095, 1096, 1109, 1119, 1122, 1132, 1146, 1156, 1172, 1178, 1183, 1201, 1222, 1223, 1225, 1226, 1227, 1228, 1229, 1232, 1233, 1241, 1255, 1258, 1261, 1266, 1267, 1285, 1290, 1295, 1296, 1297, 1293, 1300, 1302, 1304, 1308, 1316, 1318, 1320, 1322, 1325, 1327, 1358, I'm sorry, 1356, 1370, 1390, 1397, 1399, 1403, 1409, 1410, 1412, 1432, 1438, 1439, 1453, 1454, 1461, 1467, 1472, 1483, 1484, 1480 ... 1493, 1494, 1515 and 1517, passed by the Senate May 19, 1987. Linda Hawker, Secretary.*"

"Ladies and Gentlemen, we are going to now ask the Clerk to read the Bills that are on the Order of Consent Calendar, Appropriations, Third Reading. The Clerk will read those Bills, but we will not take a vote on these issues until later on during the day. So we will just be reading these bills a third time now and not taking a vote 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day until later in the day. Appropriations, Reading. Clerk O'Brien: Аг. May 20, 1987 Clerk? On the Order of Consent Calendar, on Read the Bills." the Order of Third "Consent Calendar, Appropriations, Third Reading. House Bill 109, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Metropolitan Fair Reconstruction and Exhibition Authority Fund. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 416, a bill for an Act making appropriations State Board of Elections. Third House Bill 451, a Bill for an Act 480, a Bill to the Reading of the Bill. for Third appropriating funds in relation to Build Illinois Program. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill an Act making appropriations to the State Board of Education. Reading of the Bill. House Bill 606, a Bill for making appropriations to the Secretary of State. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 699, a 8ill making certain Appropriations. House Bill 410, a Bill for an Act an Act for Third Reading of the Bill. an Act making certain Appropriations. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 756, a Bill for an Act making appropriations Ordinary and Contingent Expense of Authority. Bill Bill. For an Act Prairie State 2000 a Third Reading of the Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 757, making certain appropriations to the Illinois Farm Development Authority. House Bill 758, a Bill for an Act making reappropriations to the Environmental Protection Trust Fund Commission. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 759, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Abandoned Mine Land Reclamation Council. Third Reading of the 3il1. House Bill 760, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of State Employees Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill Retirement System. 76l, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day Ordinary and Systems. 762, a Hay 20, 1987 Contingent Expense of Certain Retirement Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill Bill for an Act making appropriations for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the Judges Retirement System. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 763, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the General Assembly Retirement System. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 764, a Bill for an Act 765, making appropriations for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the Teachers Retirement System. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the Public School Teachers' Pension Retirement Fund. Third Reading the Bill. House Bill 766, a 3ill for an Act making appropriations for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the Commissioner of Banks and Trust Companies. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 768, a Bill for an for the Ordinary and of Act to make an appropriation Contingent Expense of the Illinois Criminal Justice Information Authority. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 769, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the Ordinary Board. and Contingent Expense of the Prisoner Review Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 771, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the Healthcare Cost Care Containment Council. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 772, a Bill for an Act to provide for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense for the Office of the Lieutenant Governor. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 774, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the Department of Lottery. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 775, a Bill for an Act appropriation for the to nake an Ordinary and Contingent Expense to 5  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 the Department of Nuclear Safety. Third Reading of the Bill. House 3ill 776, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the Department of Veterans Affairs. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 779, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the Ordinary and Contingent Expenses of the Department of Employment Security. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 780, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the Department of Labor. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 781, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the Guardianship and Advocacy Commission. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 782, a Sill for an Act to make an appropriation for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the Department of Aging. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 785, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to the Capital Development Board. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 790, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense to the Department of Court of Claims. Third Reading of the Bill. House 3ill 793, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the Department of Local Government Law Enforcement Officers' Training Board. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 960, a Bill for an Act making certain appropriations. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1065, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense to the Office of State Appellate Offender. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1163, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to the Court of Claims. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1234, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to the Capital Development Board. Third Reading of the Bill. 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 House Bill 1368, a 3ill for an Act to make an appropriation to the Office of State Attorney Appellate Prosecutors. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1636, a Sill for an Act to make an appropriation to the Supreme Court. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1685, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to the various agencies. Third Reading of the Sill. House Bill 2048, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to various Legislative Support Agencies. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2049, a Bill for an Act to provide for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the General Assembly. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2050, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to the General Assembly. Third Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2756, a Eill for an Act to make an appropriation to various agencies. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bills, First Reading. Senate Bill 208, McGann, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 293, Kubik, a Bill for an Act to amend the State Property Control Act. Third (sic, First) Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 350, Rea, a Bill for an Act in relation to Jury Commissioners and Authorizing Judges to Appoint such Commissioners and to Make Rules containing the Powers and Duties. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 372, Black and Weaver, a Bill for an Act relating to Headsets for Drivers of Certain Vehicles. Third (sic, First) Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 404, Black, a Bill for an Act to amend sections of an Act in relation to Compensation of Sheriffs, Coroners, County Treasurers, County Clerks, Recorders and Auditors with their necessary Clerk Hire. First Reading of the Bill. Senate 3ill 457, Richmond, a Bill for an Act in relation to the Training Institutes of Municipal Clerks. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 489, (sic-Senate 7  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINJIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 Bill) McCracken, a Bill for an Act concerning Grants Relative to Higher Education. First Reading of the Dill. House Bill 490, (sic-Senate Bill) McCracken, a Bill for an Act to amend the Public Community College Act. First Reading of the Bill. That's Senate Bills 489 and 490. Senate Bill 492, Hicks and McCracken, a Bill for an Act to amend the Radiation Protection Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 493, Levin and Ryder, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Administrative Procedure Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 546, Black, a Bill for an Act in Relation to Agriculture. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 617, Davis, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Insurance Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 769, Black, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to provide for grants to Local Governmental Units for the additional compensation of Law Enforcement Officers meeting certain educational standards. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 788, Richmond, a Bill for an Act to amend the Soybean Marketing Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 789, Richmond, a Bill for an Act to amend the Soybean Marketing Act. First Reading of the Eill. Senate Bill 806, Turner, Weaver and Jones, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 819, Myron Olson and Flinn, a Bill for an Act relating to Certain Powers and Duties of the Secretary of State. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 857, Ropp and Kirkland, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 916, Hicks and Myron Olson, a Bill for an Act concerning Regulation of Fishing, Hunting and Trapping, amending certain Acts. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 949, Breslin and Davis, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 958, Hoffman, a Bill for 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 an Act to amend the Environmental Protection Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Sill 959, Capparelli, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Housing Development Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 960, Capparelli, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Housing Development Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 961, Hoffman, a Bill for an Act in relation to location of Regional Pollution Control Facilities. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1006, Leverenz, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act in relation to Construction Operation Regulation Maintenance for System Toll Highways and to create the Illinois Toll Highway Authority. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1156, Black, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unified Code of Corrections. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1172, Currie, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Civil Procedure. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1233, Klemm, a Bill for an Act to amend the Snow Mobile Registration and Safety Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1304, Countryman, a Bill for an Act to amend the Personnel Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1379, Flowers, a Cill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1461, Rea, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Act on the Aging. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1493, Hasara, a Bill for an Act to amend the Forest Products Transportation Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1494, Hasara, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Timberbine License Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bills, First Reading on the Regular Calendar. Senate dill 48, Leverenz, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to various State Agencies. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 49, Leverenz, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for various State Agencies. 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 First Reading of the dill. Senate Bill 286, Matijevich, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Illinois State Scholarship Commission. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 363, Laverenz, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the Ordinary and Contingent Expense of the State Comptroller. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 783, Leverenz, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 377, Hannig, Rea and Black, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Farm Development Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate 3111 421, Hannig, Rea and Black, a dill for an Act to amend the Illinois Farm Development Act. First Reading of the Bill."

"Ladies and Gentlemen. I would direct your attention to after page 52, there are 4 pages identified with Roman ... small ... Roman Numerals, which represent a Calendar Index and give you some illumination as to what page your Bill appears upon. So that, now, you can look at your Bill in a ... in its numerical order, and in the Calendar Index, and it will advise you of the page upon which your Bill appears. A calendar improvement announcement. Yes, Mr. Cullerton, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Mr. Speaker, last night I made an announcement having learned the results of the CUBS score last night. I made an announcement that the CUBS had temporarily taken over first place in their division, knowing full well that if the Cardinals had won last night that they would have gone back into first place. Now, I haven't ha a chance to see the paper this morning and I wondered if anyone ... maybe Representative Stephens might 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 know how the Cardinals did. I know they were ahead and I just wondered if he knew the results. Because if ... if they won, they would be back in first place and I'm sure he'd like to tell us about it."

"Mr. Park, were you seeking recognition?"

"Not on this issue."

"Mr. Flinn, the Gentleman from St. Clair?"

"Well, I can answer the Gentleman. Temporarily, the CUBS are in first place. Eut the June swoon has not started yet."

"Mr. Stephens, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker. In defense of the State Bird, the Cardinal, I have to rise and tell you that the Cardinals did happen to manage to wind up to come out behind in the game last night. But, we are just recovering from all of our injuries and Pena is on his way back. And we congratulate Harry Carey and the CUBS for winning yesterday. We're glad Harry Carey is better but, as Representative ... I couldn't improve on Representative Flinn's word ... the June swoon. I like that."

"Thank you. The Gentleman from Madison, Mr. Wolfe?"

"Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to add to that, that up to this point the Cardinals have been playing with their second team. The first team will start probably in the next couple of weeks. Then we'll find out what the score is."

"Mr. Parke, now for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have copies of the American Legion. the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Memorial Day speeches. I will be passing them out, so those of you that 11  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 would like to have a copy, I have three different speeches. Just flag your ... let me know and I'll give you a copy of it. Thank you."

"Yes. Mr. Steczo?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Back on the order of baseball for just one moment. Representative Stephens indicated that the Cardinals were the State Bird. I think perhaps we should call Representative Satterthwaites' Bill back to Second Reading and make the CUBS the State Fossil."

"Mr. Steczo. I didn't know that Posen was South of Springfield. Mr. Countryman?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On the order of baseball and basketball. I want you to know that I watched the basketball game with Representative Johnson last night. But in the middle of that the Cardinals lost the baseball game. And last we saw of him, he was leaving the sixteenth floor of the Lincoln Tower but not using the stairway or the elevator."

"With your permission we'll go to the regular Calendar on page 14, on the Order of Senior Citizens, House Bills, Second Reading. Mr. Turner? Mr. Turner? Out of the Record. Now on the Order of House Bills, Third Reading, Senior Citizens appears House Bill 1014. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1014, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to Rehabilitation of Disabled Persons. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. 1014 is a technical clean up Bill. It deals with Lekoteck. Lekoteck is a Scandinavian word that refers to ... that means 'play libraries'. These are libraries for Disabled Children that circulate especially designed toys 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 that help these disabled children develop their motor skills and other physical skills. The problem is they're getting tired of calling themselves 'play libraries' and ... because it sounds frivolous and so the Bill basically makes the change that refers to these institutions as resource centers for disabled children and it's a technical clean up Bill, and I move for its passage."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman, moves for the passage of House Bill 1014. And on that, the Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Thank ... Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The new language does not imply increased responsibilities or costs. It's merely a new description of the existing program. Is that right?"

"Well it a ... That's basically it. There is some language in there that provides for continuing support as opposed to initial support for these organizations, but the Department is doing that anyway. And they have no objections to the Bill. And the Fiscal Note is zilch."

"Okay. Thank you."

"There being no further discussion, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 113 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On this Order appears House Bill 1848. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill. I'm sorry, Mr. Clerk. The Lady from Cook, Ms. Currie, has leave to handle this Bill and moves to return the Bill to the Order of Second Reading for an Amendment. Have leave? Leave is granted. Mr. Clerk, are there any Amendments?" 13  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987

"Floor Amendment 1, offered by Representative Preston."

"Yes. The Lady from Cook has leave to handle that. Ms. Currie, on Amendment 1."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. The Amendment would exempt State Police from the end of Compulsory Retirement on grounds of age, so as to make this Bill, the underlying bill, House Bill 1848, consistent with other legislation that has been adopted by this Assembly."

"The Lady from Cook moves for the passage for the adoption of Amendment 1 to House Bill 1848. And on that, there being no discussion, the question is, 'Shall Amendment 1 be adopted?' All in favor 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Lady from Cook moves to suspend Rule 37(d) so that this matter may be heard in standard. Does the Lady have leave? She has leave. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill on Third Reading."

"House Bill 1848, a Bill for an Act concerning Compulsory Retirement. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Lady from Cook, Ms. Currie."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. This Bill, House Bill 1848, would apply that provisions presently in Federal Law that prevent Compulsory Retirement on the grounds of age, would make sure that those provisions apply to State Employees, including our judges. I would appreciate your support for the Bill. Happy to answer questions. And would urge you to vote 'yes' on House Bill 1848, as amended."

"The Lady from Cook has moved for the passage of House Bill 1848. And on that, is there any discussion? 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 108 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On this Order of Business appears House Bill 1902. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

Clerk O'Brien: "House Bill 1902, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Living Will Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Sangamon, Mr. Curran, on House Bill 1902."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I believe this Bill ... I believe there is an agreement with the Right to Life Organization to amend this Bill in the Senate. But, basically, what the Bill does is makes a slight alteration in who can execute a written declaration of ... for a living will. And also, it changes the term 'life sustaining' to 'death delaying'. The Illinois Right to Life Association is in favor of this change and has worked carefully with it. There's a minor change that will probably have to be undertaken in the Senate. But it's simply clean up language for an already good Act. And I move for a favorable Roll Call."

"The Gentleman from Sangamon, Mr. Curran, moves for the passage of House Bill 1902. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor say 'aye', opposed ... I'm sorry ... All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On 15  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 this question there are 112 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On this Order of Business appears House Bill 1995. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill. Out of the Record. On this Order appears House Bill 1996. Out of the Record. On this Order appears House Bill 2114. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 2114, a Bill for an Act to amend the Hearing Aid Consumer Protection Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. As amended, 2114 does 4 things. Number 1, it requires all Public Safety Agencies are required to install a TDD, which is a telecommunications device for the deaf, at all public safety answering points. Number 2, all Public Safety Agencies are required to install technologies at all public safety answering points which will identify incoming TDD calls. And Number 3, a Public Safety Agency is required to provide quarterly training on this equipment to their personnel. Number 4, the Illinois Commerce Commission shall, by January 1, 1991, conduct a survey of public service safety answering points and Public Safety Agencies to monitor compliance with this section. It ... the legislation was introduced at the request of the Chicago Hearing Society, in order to try and resolve some questions that lingered after we passed the Public Utility Reform Act two years ago requiring the free distribution of TDD's to all deaf persons. This will make sure that the instruments that are issued are compatible with those of public safety answering points. I move for its passage."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman, moves for the passage of House Bill 2114. And on that, the Gentleman 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 From Cook, Mr. Piel."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield to a couple of quick questions?"

"Yes, Sir."

"Woody, first of all when we are talking about Public Agencies. Are we basically talking about strictly State Agencies or are we talking about local, state and federal?"

"We're talking about local agencies and actually the agencies that are most affected are the 911 agencies."

"Okay. What are we talking about as far as cost to the State of Illinois on this?"

"A Fiscal Note has been filed. The cost is approximately $80,000 to $75,000 dollars."

"And is that including any personnel that we would have to hire for this?"

"Let me examine the note more carefully. I will quote from the Fiscal Note. It says'The cost includes salary, fringe benefits, statewide travel, purchase of TDD machine, training, telecommunication costs and clerical support persons. The first year cost will be approximately $80,000 and each succeeding year, approximately $75,000."

"Fine. Thank you very much."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Hallock?"

"He's talking to his mother again. Hill the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Bowman, does this impact in any way on the mail order hearing aids which are all so important to the cost of hearing aids for senior citizens?"

"Thank you for the question, Representative Hallock. The underlying Bill, the Bill as introduced, did affect mail order hearing aids. However, it was a vehicle Bill. I was asked by the Chicago Hearing Society to do this at the last 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 minute so I grabbed something off the shelf that the LRB had already drafted, introduced it. Amendment #1 guts that Bill, completely rewrites it. Amendment #1 is the Bill and in its present form it has nothing to do with mail order hearing aids."

"Well I appreciate your saying that in your Amendment because I believe that mail order hearing aids really help keep the cost down for senior citizens who need hearing aids. It was wise for you to take that Amendment and I urge you to keep going with your good efforts in this regard. And I support the Bill."

"Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall this bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. And this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 112 voting 'aye', 2 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. This Bill having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On this order appears House Bill 2299. Out of the Record. And 2301. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill. 2301."

"House Bill 2301, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unified Code of Corrections. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken, on House Bill 2301. Mr. McCracken?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 2301 incorporates provisions in House Bills 1995-96, 2299, 2302 and 2479. The consolidation was made at the request of the Judiciary Committee which considered this Bill. And defines a physically handicapped person and increases the offense for aggravated assault, criminal sexual abuse, aggravated criminal sexual abuse against ... when committed against a 18  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 handicapped person, or a person over 60 years of age. I move its passage."

"The Gentleman from DuPage has moved for the passage of House Bill 2301. And on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Young?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes."

"How is a phsycially handicapped person defined in this Bill?"

"It's defined in Section 2-15(a). It means that a person who suffers from a permanent and disabling physical characteristic resulting from disease, injury, functional disorder, or congenital condition."

"And exactly what this Bill increases the penalties for crimes committed against physically handicapped persons?"

"Yes, Sir."

"Is there an intent portion to the increase in penalties or a knowing portion?"

"Yes. There is a ... they are specific intent crimes. The person has to act knowingly."

"No. I'm not talking about the intent for the crime. I'm talking about there is ... I guess there is a stiffer penalty if this is done against a physically handicapped person than against a normal person. Is that correct?"

"Yes."

"Okay, is there provision in the Bill that says you have to know that the person was physically handicapped before the stiffer penalty applies?"

"No."

"What offenses are included in this sill?"

"Aggravated assault, robbery, criminal sexual abuse and aggravated criminal sexual abuse."

"Further discussion? Mr. McCracken, do you wish 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day to close?"

May 20, 1987 "Thank you. I think this is a necessary measure and I would appreciate the support of the Body."

"The question is, Shall this Jill pass?" All Barger: in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final action. The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Barger. One minute to explain your vote." "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was just wondering ... You may shake your head in answer. Is there a reduced penalty for handicapped assailants?"

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 111 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. This aill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared Clerk passed. On page 23 of the Calendar, on the Order of House Bills, Third Reading, Criminal Law appears House Bill 34. Ms. Stern, 34? Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 34, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Lady from Lake, Ms. Stern."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. This well intentioned little Bill has run afoul of the National Rifle Association. Well, I want to tell you about it and I hope you will keep your minds open. They are, as our former States Attorney used to say, diabolically opposed. But, let me tell you what it's about. This was a Bill requested by the National Association of County Officials and the Lake County Board, and what it does is prohibit the sale or use of plastic firearms. Now the ... I want to get finished before Mr. what's his name, gets the Floor. It is perfectly true, as the NRA says, that there is not now an all plastic firearm that will go through the metal 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 detectors at the airports or at the Court Houses. However, as the National Rifle Association itself says, this is certainly a trend that has been underway for nearly half a century, and is encouraged by the increasing cost of metal and other raw materials, as well as the increasing cost associated with shaping those materials into completed firearms. This is a preventive measure, Ladies and Gentlemen. We hope to have this legislation in place before those who are working on it perfect an all plastic firearm that can then go onto aircraft and into Court Houses and bring terrorism into everyones back yard. I ask your support of this Bill."

"The Lady from Lake, Hs. Stern, moves for the passage of House Bill 34. And on that, the Gentleman from Jefferson, Mr. Hicks?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would ask at this time that I be joined by seven Members of the House in removing this Bill from the Order of Short Debate, please."

"No, it's on House Bills, Third Reading, Criminal Law. Proceed, Sir."

"Okay, fine, thank you. Plastic bullets. Sounds good to me. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I would raise ... I would like to raise a few points about the plastic firearms, as it is called in the Bill, with all due respect to the Sponsor of the Bill. I think House Bill 34, in its current form and what it relates to with plastic guns, is something of a hysteria that's being created by the ... why thank you ... by the media itself. It's really a non-issue type of a situation, and I do respect the Lady's intention of trying to remove some of the problems we have throughout the world dealing with terrorism and that type of thing. ... But actually it's not an issue at all. Plastic guns as you ... as are being described in the Bill itself, have been 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 35th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 with us for many, many years. It's not something new. It's not something that has just been brought forward. It's not something been newly created. Even during the Vietnam era, we had plastic guns that we used on a daily basis. The M-16 Rifle, for example, is a plastic gun as described in this. But a plastic gun is not a plastic gun. It doesn't have a barrel that's made of plastic. It simply has a stock that's made of plastic. There is a considerable amount of steel, or other types of metal, involved in the making of that weapon. And it's simply something that has been created by the media, and I would ask that all of you take a very close look at this legislation, because really it doesn't do anything to help any situation concerning terrorism in the world or any of that type of thing. And I would ask you to take very serious consideration with the Bill before you vote. And I would ask you to vote 'no' on the Bill. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Macon, Mr. Tate. The Chair would like to just remind the Body that there are hundreds of Bills on this Calendar. And while debate ought not to ever be stifled on any issue, perhaps we could use restraint. Mr. Tate."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is a stupid Bill. This Bill ... I mean it ... what we probably should have done is, we probably should have amended this Bill to protect ourselves from little men from outer space because ... I mean, where are we going with this? I mean, what we're talking about doing is, we're regulating a specific type of gun. The real issue here is technology. Let me tell you another Bill that we should introduce if this Bill ... if this Body approves this legislation. Recently an American manufacturer has come out with a new ammunition, a bullet that is a silent 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEGATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 bullet, because oftentimes their shooting ranges are located in communities and neighborhoods. So, as a result, they have developed a new technology to produce a new bullet that doesn't make noise. That could be the silent killer. What ... ... I mean, the Sponsor is well intended and I think she is sincere in her efforts, but I think the real issue here is not ... is not whether we should outlaw non-metal weapons or whether we should prohibit non-metal weapons. The real issue here is whether we are going to go forward with technology. This is the only gun that currently is made that is non-metal. It is an Austrian gun. That the stimulus of this legislation came from Congressmen that allegedly walked through a metal detector and was gone unseen. The Federal Government ... both the regulatory bodies of the Federal Government have rejected this legislation. It has failed in Congress. The bureau in Washington has rejected this legislation. And I think that if we are going to arbitrarily start selecting what is legal and illegal then it becomes one more type of infringement upon our right to keep and bear arms. And I would ask all the Membership to look very closely at this legislation and to look at it from a perspective that this isn't progressive. This doesn't address, I think, the problem that she is trying to accomplish. And I would ask all the Members to reject this legislation."

"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Flinn?"

"Mr. Speaker, I believe the outcome is pretty predictable and therefore, I move to previous question."

"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Flinn moves the previous question. All those in favor of the previous question being put signify as saying 'aye', those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes have it. The Lady from Lake, Ms. Stern, to close." 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Mr. May 20, 1987 Speaker and Members of the House. I suspect Representative Flinn is right, the outcome is predictable. Let me just say in closing. I do not pretend that this is a pro-gun Bill. On the other hand, I want you to understand that this was not intended to be an anti-gun Bill. I tried to talk to the Rifle Association about Amendments. I discussed it with 3 different Gentlemen who came to me about the Bill. I said, 'Tell me what you want in it. Do you want it to say a Bill that won't go through a metal detector? I will change it.' They chose not to discuss it any further. They simply said that they didn't like the Bill. I don't think it is a stupid Bill and I want to tell you that neither do the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police think it is a stupid Bill. They think it is a Dill whose time has come. And I suggest to you that it is. It is a prudent Bill and it is not, I repeat, it is not anti-gun legislation in the classic polarizing sense. I hope you hunters and target marksmen and home protectors can see the good sense of having this legislation in place when state of the art weaponry will pass through even the best scrutinized metal detector. I urge your 'aye' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open and this is final action. The Gentleman from Cole, Mr. Weaver, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Bill deals with something that does not exist. There are no plastic weapons made today. The technology is not with us. If you want to vote to enforce legal requirements and regulations of squirt guns, fine. Vote green on this Bill. But, if you want to vote for a little 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 bit more freedom in dealing with the problem, when it exists, the old saying is don't fix it if it ain't broke. There is no plastic gun that won't ... that will make it through a metal detector. You need to vote 'no' on this Bill. This is a bad Bill."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 38 voting 'aye', 70 voting 'no', 5 voting 'present', and the Bill fails. On this Order appears House Bill 66. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill. Out of the Record. On this Order appears House Bill 176. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill.

"House Sill 176, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Criminal Procedure. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Parke."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have an Amendment 5 that I would like to move this Bill back to Second to be placed on for clarification."

"Pardon?"

"Could I have this Bill moved back to Second to put an Amendment to clarify ..."

"The Gentleman moves for leave of the House to return this Bill to the Order of Second Reading for the purpose of an Amendment. Does the Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted. Mr. Clerk, are there any Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 25, offered by Representative Parke."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Parke, on Amendment #5."

"We had to delete 'if bail bond is ordered by the Court' and ending 'any other financial obligations of the defendant'. That was to clarify the provision that was questioned with Ruling #4, out of order. This now makes it clear and I think it's in compliance with what my 25  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE colleagues in the law profession asked."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Parke, May 20, 1987 moves for the adoption of Amendment #5 to House Bill 176. And on that is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, *Shall the Amendment be adopted?" Those in favor 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Parke, asks leave of the House to waive Rule 37(b), so this matter may be heard in standard. Does the Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted using the Attendance Roll Call. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill on Third Reading."

"House Bill 176, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Code of Criminal Procedure. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Parke, on House Bill 176."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, 176 provides that bail bond deposited by or on behalf of the defendant in one case, may be used in the court's discretion to satisfy it's financial obligations of costs, restitutions to a victim or a payment ordered for court appointed counsel. I ask for passage of this legislation."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Parke, moves for the passage of House Bill 176. And on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Young."

"Will the Sponsor yield? Is there any provision in the Bill that would ... that provides for, if the bail bond money was put up by someone other than the defendant, that this would not apply?" 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Not that I am aware of." May 20, 1987

"Well then, is it your intention then that, just for an example, the defendant may be a 19 or 20 year old whose bond money was put up by his parents. Then is it your intent by this Bill that that bond money should be used maybe to pay some of the defendant's obligations, rather than go back to his parents?"

"Alright, what I would like to think is that bond is set for somebody's benefit. And I don't know necessarily if I can always take in consideration who deposits the bond. If the person is found guilty in the courts discretion, they feel that this money should be used. And again, the court is going to make the discretion. I think they may take in consideration, it's not my intent through this legislation to take into consideration who is posting the bond. I think I'll let the court make that decision. I think it's a good victims' rights Bill so that some restitution can be made to victims by using this bond money. I think it's something that is needed by the citizens of Illinois."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from DeKalb, Mr. Countryman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will yield for questions."

"Now, Representative Parke, we had some problems with the Amendments. But, let me see if I recite the Bill as you understand it. As the Bill with the final Amendment on, the court has the discretion where to apply this bond money, including the attorney's fees. Is that correct?"

"That is correct."

"Alright. Now this only applies, as I understand it, to those cases in which there is no conviction resulting. In essence the law controls in those cases where the conviction occurs in that case. Is that right? This is 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 the case where either for one reason or another it was dismissed or not prosecuted or something."

"Or plea bargained. Most of the time it would probably ..."

"Well, a plea bargain may result in a conviction in one case and a dismissal of the other. And this is a Judge Steigmans proposal for the other cases. Is that right?

"That is correct."

"Alright. And so now the Judge has the discretion at any time of the proceeding then to make the determination who will get that money. Is that correct?"

"That's my understanding."

"Alright. So that if an attorney files what's called a bail bond assignment, he can enter an order before termination of the proceedings assigning the money to the attorney. Is that correct?"

"I'm not sure that I know the answer to that question, quite frankly."

"Alright. In addition to that, he can also enter an order, if the public defender is appointed, assigning that money to the County to reimburse the County for the cost of the public defender."

"We worked on this Bill, you and I. And if that was the ... those were the Amendments that we put in. I agreed to them if that was the intent of those Amendments, then I agreed to that."

"That was the intent of one of the Amendments which I attempted to place on the 3111. But my understanding is, your now Amendment $5, I believe it is, changes it to give the judge full discretion, but I want to make sure that he still has the discretion to assign the money from the public defender or ... for the cost of the public defender." 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"That is May 20, 1987 absolutely correct. That was the agreement I made."

"Okay, thank you."

"There being no further discussion, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 94 voting 'aye', 19 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On this Order appears House Bill 192. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill. Mr. Young, do you wish to proceed? 192."

"House Bill 192, a bill for an Act to amend the Code of Criminal Procedure. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Young."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 192 amends the Code of Criminal Procedure, and it limits the ability to subpoena an attorney to testify before a Grand Jury. And I move for its adoption."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Young, moves for the passage of House bill 192. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will yield for questions."

"This creates no implication relative to the attorney/client privilege? I mean, it obviously has no bearing on that privilege?"

"Well in a manner of speaking it does, because what it does is, it would create a judicial review before the subpoena was issued so that a court could determine that the attorney/client relationship was not being breached or 29  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 abused in any way."

"Okay, and the factors you list have to be found by Young: the court in order to approve the subpoena?" "That's correct."

"Okay. These are similar, are they not, to Department of Justice standards?"

"I think they are the exact standards."

"And as a matter of fact, in at least... in the Federal Grand Juries there was that type of abuse during Watergate among other times. So I think this is an important Bill and one that should be passed. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 111 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On this Order appears House Bill 330. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 330, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Madison, Mr. McPike, the Majority Leader."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill adds another paragraph to the Aggravated Battery Section of the Criminal Code. It will provide that a person who commits an aggravated battery by causing bodily harm to a person who is physically handicapped. Currently, that section of the Code refers to a number of different individuals and sets them ... and sets them apart for special consideration. For example, we do it for police officers, for firemen, for senior citizens over the 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 35th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 age of 60, for judges as it would relate to the performance of their official duties. This adds another section dealing with the physically handicapped. It came up because, in my hometown, a severely physically handicapped individua was attacked by someone. The State's Attorney felt that he was handicapped because he could only charge that individual with a Class A Misdemeanor. He wanted to have the option of charging him with an aggravated battery. I walked on the Floor when Ar. McCracken was explaining his Bill a few minutes ago, so I'm not sure how this differs from his, except in response to Mr. Young's question, we did add 'knowingly' to this statute. So I move for the passage of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Madison, Mr. McPike, moves for the passage of House Bill 330. And on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Ar. Preston."

"Thank you, Hr. Speaker. I just rise in support of this Bill. I think this protection is needed, because I think individuals who are handicapped are frequently targets of muggers and others who would prey on them because of their handicap. And I think they deserve this additional measure of protection. And I think Representative McPike has done a superb job in sponsoring this Bill."

"Is there any further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no". Voting is open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 115 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Clerk has available now change of vote forms for the Consent ent Calendar which was 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day read earlier this morning. two And ... or May 20, 1987 so we will be ... we will be voting on these and then you will have a period of hours ... or an hour to register any changes of vote which would allow you to register 'no', *present. or 'absent after you have done that. Ladies and Gentlemen, we will go to the Consent Calendar for Bills that require ... that must be brought back to the order of Second Reading for the purpose of an Amendment. Mr. Clerk, on that Order appears House 3ill 1636. And on that ... The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz, asks leave to return this Bill to the Order of Second Reading for an Amendment. Leave is granted. Mr. Clerk, are there Amendments to House Bill 1636?"

"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative

Hartke. Speaker Greiman: "The Gentleman from Effingham, Mr. Hartke, on Floor Amendment #4."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Amendment #4 would add $25,000 to House Bill 1636. What it is is an appropriation for a probation program for Richland County. They're trying something very new. They're developing a Teen Court System in Richland County where juvenile offenders, rather than going through the normal court system, are being, shall we say, sentenced and judged by their peers, and it's a very successful program in San Diego, California and in Texas, and it may... if successful, this program could keep kids out of jail and out of a life of crime, and I think it's a very good, worthwhile program and I'd appreciate your support."

"The Gentleman from Effingham moves for the adoption of Amendment #4 to House Bill 1636, and on that, is there any discussion? There... Yes, the Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken." 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"This Bill's on the Consent Calendar, is it not?"

"That's correct."

"Okay. Mr. Hartke, did you present this matter in the Appropriations Committee? Chuck?"

"No. I did not at that time, Tom, and the reason we didn't, there was hope that funding could be derived in a meeting at Peoria, and we were assured it would be, but then it did not come forth, so we're trying this method."

"Okay. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich."

"Only because I thought Tom had some problems and the Gentleman did come to me, the Sponsor of the Bill. It came to his attention after the Bill had been in Committee and we accept the Amendment."

"The question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted? Those in favor say 'aye', those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes have it. The Amendment is adopted. That Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk, I am advised that there is an Amendment 3 that was not called in error. So, further Amendments? With leave of the House we will go to Amendment 3."

"Floor Amendment 33, offered by Representative Leverenz."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment 3 would restore a $50,000 amount to their budget request that would continue the funding of the Committee for the Evaluation of Judicial Performance. I move for the adoption of the Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz, moves for the adoption of Amendment #3 to House Bill 1636. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative Mays is not 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 up here. What does this do again, Representative?"

"This would fund a current program that started in the year that we are in now, that Judge Sullivan is overseeing."

"How much?"

"It's a $50,000 amount for the Committee for Evaluation of Judicial Performance. It's in... this would make it in its second year."

"Okay, thank you."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich."

"There again, Mr. Speaker, so that Representative McCracken is aware, we discussed this matter with Chief Justice Clark yesterday, and Judge Sullivan. This is a program to improve the administration of justice in so many ways. Even though it's in its first year, we have already seen the fruits of its improvement, and I appreciate your support."

"The Lady from Cook, Ms. Parcells."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It sounds like we're dripping back into these probation things that we were cutting originally and just adding on and adding on, but I would like to ask the Sponsor if he would answer this question. If this goes statewide, what do you think the cost of it would be, once this board goes into statewide operation?"

"What board are you referring to? This is... Π

"The Judicial Performance Board."

"This is just an evaluation process that they're doing. I think what you may be talking about would be covered in Amendment #5. This is just an oversight of how the judicial operation is running, and they recommend improvements, and it could be statewide now."

"Once the system gets set into place, do we have any 34  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 idea what this will cost?"

"I don't know that there would be any statewide committee. This is just a sitting committee now, that evaluates judicial performance."

"Right, but I have a feeling that the Supreme Court, or I have some input that the Supreme Court would like to expand this statewide, and I think it could become quite a big ticket item, once they get their... the system into operation, but they have... you have no figures on that?"

"No, I do not."

"Thank you."

"The question is, *Shall this Amendment be adopted? All in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment's adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment #4 was adopted previously. Floor Amendment #5, offered by Representative Leverenz and Mays."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz, on Amendment #5."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #5 would reduce and restore the following things - these are changes from what we did in Committee. It would reduce $500,000 from the request for Judges in the Circuit Court salaries. It would reduce further another $500,000 for Judges in the Circuit Court known as 'A's.' It would reduce a million dollars from the request for Associates Judges' pay. Further, it would restore 93,800 in contractual services, restore 213,417 for training of probation personnel, for a total appropriation of $900,000 there. Further, for probation pretrial services, which the General Assembly has mandated be controlled by the Supreme Court, would restore 6,068,981, which we took back to zero in Committee until we found out exactly how much would be up and operating for 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 the year that we're going into. The net increase of the budget then is for 4,376,198. I would move for the adoption of the Amendment and answer any questions you might have."

"The question is, 'Shall this Amendment be adopted?' Those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes have it. The Amendment's adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. The Gentleman asks leave to waive Rule 37(b) so that this matter be considered in standard and for return of this to the Consent Calendar. Is there leave? Leave is granted using the Attendance Roll Call. The Consent Calendar having previously been read, all those in favor with respect to House Bills, Third Reading, Appropriations Consent Calendar, signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. Let me remind Members again, that Change of Vote Forms are available at the well. Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk ... Jack? Take the record. On page 26 of the Calendar, on the Order of Higher Education, House Bills, Second Reading appears House Bill 1587. Mr. Keane? Out of the Record. On that Order appears House Bill 1805. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1805, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 31. We're on page 26 of the Calendar, Higher Education, Second Reading. Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative McCracken."

"The Gentleman from OuPage. Mr. McCracken, on Amendment 1." 36  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987

"Mr. Speaker, I think we did this last night and I withdrew it."

"Okay, the Amendment is withdrawn. Further Amendments?"

"Okay, Amendment is withdrawn."

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1805, a Bill for an Act to amend sections of the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Saline, Mr. Phelps, on House Bill 1805."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. 1805 is a piece of legislation that I think each and every one of us would like to be identified with and if you haven't signed on as a Co-Sponsor, I believe you would want to pretty quickly. This legislation provides for 6 mini Math and Science Academies to be established throughout the State. The best part of the legislation, in my estimation, is the fact that I actually do not call for any new money from the State to be appropriated. The way we would handle this is that the Board of the State Department of Education and the..."

"Excuse me. Mr. McCracken, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of our Representatives filed a fiscal note request on this yesterday. And apparently it has not been satisfied. The Calendar reflects that a fiscal note has been requested."

"Well, Mr. McCracken, the Chair recognized you on an Amendment that you withdrew. And frankly did... thought that all of the incumbrances were taken off of it. Were taken off of it, and that we could then move the Bill to Third Reading. Certainly, we want to respect your 37  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMELY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 the request of your Member. The Chair could rule that your observation is untimely. However, the Chair would ask Mr. Phelps, in the spirit of moving the Business of the House in an orderly fashion, to take this out of the record at this time, or return the Bill to Second Reading, so that you can either agree to obtain such a fiscal note or make an appropriate Motion. Mr. Phelps?"

"Thank you, Sir. I would agree to take it out of the Record."

"Let's move it back to Second Reading."

"If I might just indicate quickly. When this was on the Calendar Friday, I was prepared. I have not missed a vote, I have been here. The Amendment that he had then attached to it was not distributed and also printed. I took it out of the record then to accommodate him. Then he withdrew the Amendment. Now a Fiscal Note. I've asked for a Fiscal Note and it's not here. I really think I've bent over backwards to cooperate."

"Nice guys often finish last. Mr. McCracken? What is your pleasure, Sir?"

"It was filed yesterday by one of our Members. I feel I have to ask for it."

"Well, you were within your rights, as would be the Gentleman from Saline to move to make it inapplicable. The Gentleman from Saline, Mr. Phelps, moves that a Fiscal Note requirement be held inapplicable to this Bill and we are now on the Order of Second Reading. And on that Motion, the Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. It seems that the Fiscal Note requirement, we've gotten to the point where I think it's being abused and if merely by a Hotion and the votes on this House, we can overrule this kind of requirement. It doesn't seem to me 38  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 that it is being particularly, particularly effective. I think also, if the Gentleman has requested a Fiscal Note from the appropriate Agency and they haven't responded to his request, I think we as a Body ought to take them the task. Because without us, they are nothing. And it just seems inappropriate that we would be able to move to remove the requirement for the Fiscal Note. It's on that general principle, not on the Gentleman's Bill specifically, that I rise in opposition to the Gentleman's Motion."

"The Lady from Kane, Ms. Deuchler."

"Well, Mr. Speaker. Regarding the Fiscal Note. I filed the Fiscal Note. It was filed in a timely manner. I do feel that it's very important for us to know the Fiscal implications of these additional summer school programs and I really think that we need to have this information."

"The question is, 'Shall the Fiscal Note be held inapplicable with respect to House Bill 1805?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 69 voting 'aye', 45 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present' and the note is held inapplicable. Third Reading. Mr. Phelps. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill on Third Reading."

"Senate (sic, House) Bill 1805, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Gentleman from Saline, Mr. Phelps."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, briefly, if you will look at the merits of the Bill. I think you will agree why the awkwardness of the fiscal note was handled. There is nothing to substantiate a dollar figure that would cost the state in new money. The reason for that, the Bill that sets up... establishes the 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DЕЗАТЕ 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 six mini math/science academy, handles it in the way in which the Board of Education and the trustees of the universities will jointly decide geographically the locations throughout the state that would be disbursed on an even access to those throughout the state. It... just as mere suggestion, we could be talking about Southern Illinois University, U of I, Eastern, Martin Luther King, Chicago, Northwestern, wherever they would select to be geographically balanced to access these children. Also, the strong point to remember is that the money that we are talking about to fund the programs would be taken from the $15,000,000 that we have already appropriated for the summer programs to the education reform. That means we are giving to local schools the option to select these gifted math and science children that would go to the universities and we would not have to be looking at residential building because the universities in the summertime have available housing on the universities in which our tax money has already gone for. So, based on some tuition that could be paid by parents, some endowments that could be in the plan that we have provided for in the Bill and the 15,000,000 that is already in place for summer programs that schools have yet to designate what those programs are for. Now, I know some would say, it may not be for gifted, but if we are not serious about it, looking at math and science and the gifted program, then I think we should take a careful look at our summer programs before they are established, before... We can correct, maybe, some mistakes. So, looking at the geographically balanced and how they would be set up in the universities, the summer programs and the money that is already in place, plus requiring that the tuition and endowments come in play, I believe you will agree that this is a very practical way to address 40  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 something that we put so much emphasis on, math and science gifted students. I appreciate your support."

"Mr. Clerk, would you read this Bill a third time again?"

"House Bill 1805, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill... correction, Second..."

"And on that, the Lady from Kane, Ms. Deuchler."

"Would Representative yield for a question, please?"

"Yes."

"What was the genesis of your idea for setting up additional math/science academies, Representative Phelps? Did you feel that because of the math science academy already established that this idea was... merited extension or was it an effort to replace the math/science academy in existence with this type of program?"

"Although I must admit the Aurora facility is quite costly and I regret that we did not take a look at something like this on a more practical approach earlier, maybe going into something similar to the residential in Aurora. However, my plan is only to try to make accessible to those students who are young age who cannot or will not really consider going to Aurora and staying full time as a residential place. But summertime is a time that these children and students can utilize their time and programs that are accessible to the university, very close to them. That's the genesis."

"Did a particular group bring this idea to you?"

"I'm sorry. I didn't hear you."

"Did a group suggest this idea to you?"

"Did a group?"

"Yes, some statewide group or college suggest this to you?" 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day Phelps: A combination May 20, 1987 of that, yes, statewide group and individuals and students that are not accessible in my area to travel to Aurora and do not have the..."

"Can you tell us what group suggested this?"

"Well, one particular group I know has endorsed it is the Illinois Education Association."

"I notice on page 1, down around line 24 and 25, there is language in the legislation saying that both high school and college levels of instruction will be provided. Doesn't that imply some kind of state support or state funding?"

"I didn't hear all of your statement, but I believe..."

"Well, I'm just... just getting back to the funding question, Representative." was

"Okay. The funding, I explained to you, Representative Deuchler, in the three parts in the plan was through endowments, tuition and the summer program money that we have already appropriated for education reform." to the Bill. It

"Well, Representative Phelps, certainly seems just at the time that we are trying to complete the first year at the math/science academy and establish the second year's funding that it seems as though your plan is, perhaps, premature. Sometime in the future, if some of the functions are not covered by math/science academy, that some of your ideas may need to be instituted, but right at this time with the tight State funding that we have and with the uncertain future, I would certainly be opposed."

"Lady from DuPage, Ms. Cowlishaw. Welcome back, Ms. Cowlishaw." Cowlishaw: Mr. "Thank you, Hr. Speaker. Thank you all very much. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, we instituted one of the most outstanding education reform 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 packages in this nation in the spring of 1985. At that time, we knew that we had put together a package of initiatives for improving our schools throughout this state and that we must be attentive to seeing to it that those initiatives were properly funded, were fulfilled, were followed through on. One of those initiatives was the residential mathematics and science academy that is located in Aurora and it was the intent of those of us who framed Senate Bill 730 that that academy would be the flayship, would set, in fact, the pace for really sophisticated instruction in mathematics and science for all school districts and all school children throughout this State. That academy has only been in operation for one year. It is, in fact, in need of some funding so that it can take in additional students for the forthcoming school year. Although I certainly endorse the concept of this Bill, it is very decidedly premature. What dollars we have available from the State for use for education ought now to be, in fact, concentrated on fulfilling the initiatives of the education reform package, one of which is the residential academy. When the academy has put in place and has developed what I know will be, probably the most outstanding curriculum for gifted education in mathematics and science in the world, perhaps, then in fact that curriculum ought to be extended. In fact, we would be obliged to extend that to all school children throughout this State who indicate a degree of giftedness in those subjects, but in the meantime... Mr. Speaker, I regard this as tinkering with the education reform package. It is premature and I would suggest that for that and a number of other reasons many of which are fiscal, that this Bill is, in fact, one we ought to defeat, with due respect to the Sponsor. Thank you, Mr. Speaker." 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Young." May 20, 1987

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes."

"Does the Bill identify where the six locations for these summer schools will be?"

"Representative Young, they are not yet identified in the Bill because we have created a governing board that would be selected from the colleges and universities and also the State Board of Education that would decide where the locations would be."

"Would this program be an overnight program where the students would stay four or five days a week?"

"In the Bill, we provided an option of either it could be a commuter type program or a residential, knowing that the summer... the time the universities do have available dormitories and housing. So, it could be handled either way. He give that to the local governing board to control."

"Okay. To the Bill. I'm not a supporter of the math and science academy, but the reason this Bill disturbs me is because it would take summer school funding for these six special summer academies where presently we have a great deal of difficulty getting funding for regular summer schools and the schools existing within some of the cities of the State right now and I'm afraid that this would take funding away from the current summer school program and give it to these six special schools. And therefore, I have to rise in opposition to this legislation."

"The Gentleman from Madison, Mr. Wolf."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"Gentleman from Madison moves the previous question be put. Those in favor say 'aye', opposed "no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 Gentleman from Saline, Mr. Phelps, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Quickly, the fiscal note was just handed to me when we got in debate and I would bring it to your attention. The only cost that we are talking about, according to the fiscal note by the State Board of Education, is the governing board and the executive director that we spoke to you about. The board expenses would be per diem travel and meeting expenses would be $10,000. The executive director expenses would be based on a $45,000 annual salary, which would be about $26,000, and I think there is a total then cost of $36,000 according to the State Board of Education. Now, I think this is a fair price to pay, when we are talking about and to address Representative Cowlishaw's remarks on competing with the residential Aurora Math and Science Academy. This is a summer program only that addresses in this Bill. I believe that we could successfully recruit the top-notch math and science students that right now cannot go to Aurora because of various conditions and yet they could be recruited from a successful summer program that ultimately might end in the residential facility in Aurora. So, I don't see where we should look at competition and be scared to look on new things and improving. Who said the education reform was perfect? And if you call it tinkering, then I hope we can improve it and I would admit to trying to do that, if that's the case. I appreciate your support."

"Question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Yes, I'm sorry. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Turner, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the Assembly, I rise in support of this legislation. I know that there has 45  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 been a lot of discussion about magnet schools in the local area. I have been a strong supporter of the math/science academy, but I also feel that the opportunities for kids to participate in a program of this nature during the summer would be beneficial to the overall educational environment in terms of those kids who are unable to attend the academy. There are a lot of parents who... there are some parents who have some fear about sending their kids away at age 14 and the kid not being able to come back until after high school, and at that point, he would probably go on off to college somewhere. So I think that in one sense, it sort of eludes the family structure there. I think that it's important that we allow the kids to get some participation in terms of our improving the math and science skills and I think that the setting up of additional centers for the summer months would certainly help the overall public school system in the City of Chicago and I urge the Members to vote 'aye on this Bill."

"Gentleman from McLean, Mr. Ropp, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Hembers of the House. I know that the Sponsor of this Bill is well-intended and had we not made a decision a couple of years ago relative to the one math/science school, I think this Bill might have been given merit at that time. But since we have made that decision already, it seems too premature to, at this point, appear to water down that math/science flag program that we have. And I would urge people not to support this at this point in time and wait until we see how the academy continues to work out in the next couple of years."

"The Lady from LaSalle, Ms. Breslin, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen, I, too, 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 rise in support of this legislation. I have students from my district who attend the math/science academy in the northern part of the state and they benefit from it. It does have some downfalls. This system makes the availability of gifted education available to all of our students and I believe at a far, far lower cost than what is... and with far less difficulty than what has been experienced at the math/science academy in the northern part of the state."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Giglio, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in support of this piece of legislation. I had so many students in my district and south and west of my district that tried to get in the academy, but according to the rules that they set, they were only going to take so many from so many places. I think we need more of these schools throughout the state and I think it's a very good program and we should put more schools throughout the state for this. I'd urge an 'aye' vote."

"Gentleman from Kane, Mr. Kirkland, one minute to explain your vote."

"Yes, I have problems with this Bill simply because I think we are having enough trouble getting the math and science academy adequately funded. It's located... it's location is logical in terms of being in the high tech corridor and so forth. That's why it's there. I think we should concentrate on making it one of the finest academies in the world and I think we are going to dilute that possibility with this Bill. So, urge a 'no vote."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 60 voting 'aye', 49 voting 'no', 6 voting 'present'." 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken, asks for a verification of the Affirmative Roll Call. The Gentleman from Saline asks for a poll of those not voting. Excuse me. Mr. McCracken, Representatives Shaw and Sutker ask leave to be verified. Leave is... and Mr. Capparelli. Leave is granted for those three. Mr. Clerk, proceed."

"Representative Didrickson and Krska are not voting."

"Mr. Clerk, proceed with the verification of the Affirmative Roll Call."

"Poll of the Affirmative. Berrios. Black. Bowman. Breslin. Brunsvold. Bugielski. Capparelli. Christensen. Cullerton. Curran. Daley. Davis. DeJaegher. DeLeo. Dunn. Farley. Flinn. Giglio. Giorgi. Granberg. Greiman. Hannig. Hartke. Hicks. Homer. Huff. Hultgren."

"Excuse me, Mr. Clerk. Mr. DeLeo asks leave to be verified. You have leave, Sir."

"Continuing with the Poll of the Affirmative. Jones. Keane. Kulas. Laurino. Levin. Martinez. Matijevich. Mautino. McNamara. McPike. Mulcahey. Novak. O'Connell. Panayotovich. Phelps. Preston. Rea. Rice. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Steczo. Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. White. Williams. Wolf. Hyvetter Younge. And Mr. Speaker."

"Mr. McCracken, questions of the Affirmative Roll Call."

"Yes, Sir, thank you. Representative Granberg."

"Mr. Granberg. How is Mr. Granberg recorded?"

"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Granberg from the roll call. Further questions?"

"Representative Williams." 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 35th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"Mr. Williams is at the door on the Democratic side of the chamber."

"Representative Saltsman."

"Mr. Saltsman is in front of his desk."

"Mr. Martinez."

"Mr. Martinez is at his chair. Mr. Steczo asks leave to be verified. Mr. Steczo, you have leave. Mr. Hicks asks leave to be verified. He has leave. Yes, Ms. Davis asks leave to be verified also. Ms. Davis. Yes, proceed, Sir."

"Did you rule on Representative Martinez?"

"Yes, Mr. Martinez is at his desk."

"Oh, alright. Representative Hartke."

"Mr. Hartke is at his new desk."

"Representative Giorgi."

"Mr. Giorgi. Mr. Giorgi. How is Mr. Giorgi recorded?"

"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Well, then remove Mr. Giorgi from the roll call at this time, this particular time."

"Representative Nyvetter Younge."

"Ms. Younge. Is Ms. Younge in the chamber? Ms. Younge is over at the door."

"Representative Jones."

"Ms. Jones had leave to be verified."

"No, no, no, no, no, Speaker. That was Representative Davis."

"You are correct. You are correct. Ms. Jones. Ms. Jones in the chamber? Is Ms. Jones in the chamber? How is the Lady recorded?"

"Lady is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Alright, remove the Lady from the roll call."

"Representative Rea." 49  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987

"Mr. Rea is over on the... in the far aisle."

"Representative Laurino."

"Mr. Laurino is in his chair. Ms. Satterthwaite asks leave to be verified. You have leave, Ma'am. And Mr. Dunn asks leave to be verified."

"Representative Mulcahey."

"Mr. Mulcahey. Mr. Mulcahey. Is Mr. Mulcahey in the chamber? Mr. Mulcahey. How is Mr. Mulcahey?"

"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"I'm sorry, is Mr. Mulcahey... no, alright. How is Mr. Mulcahey... Mr. Mulcahey is right here. Alright. Mr. Leverenz, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Record me 'aye'."

"Record Mr. Leverenz 'aye'. Ms. Currie, for what purpose do you seek recognition? Record Ms. Currie as 'aye'. Record Ms. Stern as 'aye'."

"Representative Ronan."

"Mr. Ronan. Mr. Ronan. Mr. Ronan in the chamber? How is Mr. Ronan recorded?"

"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Ronan. Ms. Jones has returned to the Chamber. Restore Ms. Jones to the roll call."

"Representative Keane."

"Mr. Keane. Mr. Keane. Is Mr. Keane in the chamber? How is Mr. Keane recorded?"

"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Well, remove Mr. Keane."

"Representative Farley."

"Mr. Farley. Is Mr. Farley in the chamber? Mr. Farley."

"Representative Turner."

"Mr. Turner. Mr. Turner is at his seat."

"I think Mr. Farley was verified off. Does the record 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day Hay 20, 1987 reflect that?"

"No, you propounded another name before I was able to rule on that so I responded to your request."

"Oh, I'm sorry. Representative Farley."

"Mr. Farley. Mr. Farley in the chambers? Mr. Farley. How is Mr. Farley recorded?"

"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye.'"

"Remove Mr. Farley. Restore Mr. Giorgi to the roll call. Mr. Wolf. Mr. Wolf. Leave to be verified?"

"Right."

"Mr. Wolf asks leave to be verified. Ms. Barnes, were you seeking recognition? Ms. Barnes? No. Excuse me, Mr. Matijevich, for what purpose are you seeking recognition?"

"Well, it's a violation while we are on a roll call, but I think we ought to wish a happy anniversary, 13th anniversary to Peg Breslin right here."

"Well, Mr. Matijevich, you who know the rules so well, I am certainly surprised that you would take this opportunity to proceed in that fashion. On this question... yes, Mr. Bowman, for what purpose... Mr. Morrow, for what purpose do you seek... Mr. Granberg has returned to the chamber. Restore Mr. Granberg to the chamber. Now, I'm confused. I was going to declare the vote and now apparently you don't want me to declare the vote. Mr. Hultgren, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"To change my vote, Mr. Speaker, from 'yes' to 'no', please."

"Record Mr. Hultgren as 'no'. Mr. Black, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. Change my vote from 'aye' to 'no'."

"Record Mr. Hultgren as 'no'. Mr. Morrow, for 51  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 what purpose do you seek recognition? I meant Black. Yes, Black, Black to 'no'."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would you change my vote from 'present' to 'yes'?"

"Record Mr. Morrow as 'yes'. Mr. LeFlore votes 'yes'. On this question, there are 60 voting 'aye', 51 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On this Order of Business... Mr. Panayotovich, what can I do for you?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to introduce a former colleague of ours who is a good Republican from our district. He's standing on the Republican side, by mistake. The Honorable Augie 'Ruff', who was here in 1959 1961. Representative 'Ruff'."

"On page 14... yes, Mr. Regan, for what purpose do we seek... do you seek recognition?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's a rather strange point of personal privilege. I'd like to announce for the information of the floor that we have a little crime spree going on. They seem to pick Representatives' cars to take a slim jim and burglarize the cars. It happened to my car last night, parked in front of the Sangamo Club. It happened to Kay Wojcik's car Monday night and again last night. So, I would advise all the Members of the House to please remove their valuables from the car and we have reported it to the police and hope that they will be able to come around and protect us a little bit better. But if they are doing it in front of the Sangamo... there's a Democrat that got it too, so they are not just picking on Republicans. Take your valuables out of the car. Thank you."

"Mr. Preston, for what purpose do you seek 52  50th Legislative Day recognition?" STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSENBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DESATE May 20, 1987

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative Regan, you might consider driving an automobile, as Representative Greiman does, you could be sure no self-respecting thief would break into that automobile."

"On page 14 of the Calendar, on the Order of Senior Citizens and Disabled, House Bills Second Reading, appears House Bill 664. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 664, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Act on Aging. It's been read a second time previously. Amendment #1 was withdrawn on May 19th. Next Amendment is Floor Amendment #2, being offered by Representative Turner."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Turner, on Amendment #2."

"Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Assembly. Amendment #2 creates a task force, a 9 member task force to be appointed by the Governor to study this issue of... shared housing for senior citizens. It's a concept that the Department of Aging is very much interested in. Because of the homelessness and the lonely problem that a lot of senior citizens are confronted with, we decided to make this Amendment which would allow the Department to determine the actual cost and the implementation of the types of senior shared program that would be available. There are two or three states that currently have a senior shared housing program, the cost of that program running anywhere from 300,000 to a million dollars. We are asking this task force to study it. I move for the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 664."

"Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment 2 to House Bill 664, and on that is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken." 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Thank you. Members, is that right?" Turner: May 20, 1987 The four legislative leaders name four "That's correct."

"And two persons appointed by the Governor from a list submitted by senior citizens organizations?"

"That's correct."

"One by the Governor."

"Right."

"One by the Department of Aging."

"That's right."

"One from area agencies, also to be appointed by the Department."

"That's right."

"And the of Agency (sic, Department Aging) shall provide research and development for the task force. Do you have any idea how much this would cost, this task force or study program?"

"We approximate $75,000. The the cost to be about researcher would be from the task... from the Social Service Division of the Department of Aging."

"And this Amendment changes the Bill from one which would initiate the program to one which will study the program, is that it?"

"That's correct. We're aware of the fact that the limited Funds this year... not knowing what the budget is going to look like, the Department felt also that this would allow them time to say exactly what the cost of the shared program would be."

"Okay, are they to report back to us? Is that... is that required in the Amendment?"

"Yes, we have asked that they report no later than July 1st of 1988. I'm talking with the Department people to ask 0 that they do it prior to that. I'd like to see about 54  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 35th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 putting this program off the ground next spring."

"And the Department supports this?"

"The Department does support it."

"Thank you."

"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted? Those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. The Gentleman... the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Turner, asks leave to waive Rule 37(b) so this matter may be heard... is there leave to use the Attendance Roll Call? Leave is granted. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 664, a bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Act on Aging. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Turner."

"Yes, I think I explained the Bill earlier. The Amendment, in fact, is the Bill. What it does, again, is it creates a senior shared housing task force to study the issue of senior shared housing here in the State of Illinois. It's an issue that would certainly help the senior citizen's community. It has been adopted in a couple of other states. We ask that a task force be created of nine Members to study this particular issue and to report back to the General Assembly by July 1 of next year. I move for a favorable Roll Call on this vote on House Bill 664."

"Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 664, and on that, is there any discussion? The Lady from Cook, Ms. Pullen."

"Like to ask the Sponsor a question or two, please." 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"Indicates he will yield for questions."

"How is this task force appointed?"

"Thank you. The task force, again, consists of nine Members..."

"Appointed by whom?"

"The appointments... the appointments are by the Governor. Four persons with backgrounds and experience in public or private housing sector, one each from the Minority Leader and the Majority Leader in the House, the President and Minority Leader in the Senate, two people from a list of four names submitted to the Governor from senior citizen's organizations, one person appointed by the Governor, one person from the Department of Aging appointed by the Director of the Department and one person from the area agency appointed by the Director of the Department. The coordination of this..."

"I'm sorry. That sounds like more than nine people. Are there appointees by each of the legislative leaders and appointees by the Governor?"

"There is four appointees, one by each of the legislative Leaders, two from the list that would be provided to the Governor. That's six. One more by the Governor. That's seven and one from the Department of Aging, appointed by that Director, which is eight and one from the area agency on aging, which is appointed by the Director of the Department, which is nine."

"Are you aware of whether there are any constitutional problems with the concept of appointments by both the Legislature and the Governor?"

"I'm not aware of any constitutional problems. If, in fact, there are, I'm certain that we can correct it in the Senate but I'm unaware of any constitutional problems with that. This is a task force and not a commission." 56  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"If I may, I would urge you to research a decision, Illinois Supreme Court decision related to the original creation May 20, 1987 Supreme Court that I think of the original State Board of Elections, if my memory serves me correctly and it might be pertinent to this. Thank you."

"Thank you, Representative. We will check that. As I say, I'm willing to correct this in the Senate. This is by recommendation from the Department of Aging and it was with their knowledge and input that we came up with the nine member task force, but I'm certain that if there is something constitutionally wrong with this Bill that we can... we will correct it over in the Senate."

"Thank you."

"The Lady from Kane, Ms. Doederlein."

"I think this is a good idea, but I was just wondering if the Council on Aging could take this project on because they are always looking for projects to help the Department of Aging and then there wouldn't be any cost, it wouldn't be another conference or a council. So, I would suggest that maybe the Council on Aging take on this project."

"The recommendation of the task force, again, came from the Department. If the Department feels that the Council on Aging can work on this issue, I would certainly be amenable to try to correct that in the Senate. The... My intent here is to try to implement a senior shared housing program and I think that whatever senior citizen organization, be it the Council or the Department, that is willing to study this particular aspect and come up with a cost figure that is reasonable to the State of Illinois, I am amenable to working with that group. And again, I will talk with the Department again and I can correct this over in the Senate and when it comes back here to the House, I 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 am sure that we should be able to reach concurrence."

"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 112 voting 'aye', 2 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 15 of the Calendar, on the Order of House Bills Second Reading - Consumer Protection, appears House Bill 2. Mr. Clerk. Out of the record. On this Order of Business appears House Bill 1312. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1312, a Bill for an Act to amend the General Not-For-Profit Corporation Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions with respect to Amendment #1?"

"No Motions filed."

"Are there Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2 is being offered by Representative Slater."

"Gentleman from McDonough, Mr. Slater, on Amendment #2. Amendment #2 withdrawn. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Slater."

"Mr. Slater, Gentleman from McDonough."

"Withdraw."

"Amendment withdrawn. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Slater."

"Gentleman from McDonough, Mr. Slater." 58  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987

"Mr. Speaker, withdraw Amendments 4, 5..."

"Amendment ?... Amendments 34 and 5 are withdrawn. Are there further Amendments?"

"6 and 7, withdraw."

"And 6 and 7 are withdrawn."

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Has this Bill been previously read, Mr. Clerk?... Reading... Now we're turning to Higher Education - House Bills Second Reading, on page 26 of the Calendar, appears House Bill 1587. 1587. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"On page 26 of the Calendar, House Bill 1587, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to provide tuition waivers for children of employees of state supported colleges and universities. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there Floor Amendments?"

"There are none."

"Third Reading. And now on page 26, on the Order of House Bills Third Reading - Coal Development, appears House Bill 1954. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1954, a Bill for an Act to designate a day to be observed as Coal Miners' Memorial Day. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Saline, Mr. Phelps, on House Phelps: Bill 1954." "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 1954 is actually a commemorative memorial day for the coal miners of this state. We have, through history of coal mining of this state, have lost many loved ones in mine disasters, although I'm glad to report that the disasters that I reported in the last few years are to a minimal, but we do think there needs to be a 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 designated day to commemorate those who have lost their lives and perished in the coal mine. It's a high risk career and I think the families and the natives of Illinois would appreciate having a day. He have chosen November the 13th because the greatest wine disaster in Illinois history occurred at that time, back in 1905, the Cherry Street Mine... the Cherry Mine disaster and where 250 people perished, I believe. We appreciate your support."

"Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 1954, and on that, the Lady from DuPage, Ms. Cowlishaw."

"Hould... Thank you, Ar. Speaker. would the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Yes, he'll yield for questions. Proceed."

"As the Sponsor of this Bill, could you please tell us whether you expect that on Coal Miners' Memorial Day the children in the schools of this state will be in school or they will be out?"

"They will be in school."

"Thank you."

"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 115 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On this Order appears House Bill 2797. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 2797, a Bill for an Act to create the Underground Resources Conservation Enforcement Fund. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Gentleman from Perry, Mr. Goforth." 60  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is actually a vehicle Bill. I would appreciate your support to send it out. We will have an Amendment on it in the Senate. It's an agreed Bill from all concerned. They are all... in the Department of Mines and Minerals. I ask for your support."

"Gentleman from Perry, Mr. Goforth, moves for the passage of House Bill 2797, and on that, the Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich."

"Will the Gentleman yield?"

"Indicates he will yield for questions."

"Wayne, you have been here awhile, but is this your first Bill?"

"Looks like it might be that way."

"Hey, here we go. Wayne Goforth's first Bill."

"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 109 voting 'aye', 4 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading... House Bills Second Reading - Labor, on page 32 of the Calendar, appears House Bill 1006. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill. Out of the record. On this Order appears House Bill 1035. Mr. Saltsman, do you wish to proceed on that Bill? Out of the record. On this Order appears House Bill 1779. Mr. Curran. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1779, a Bill for an Act to amend the Personnel Code. Second Reading of the Bill. There are no Committee Amendments." 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"Are there Floor Amendments?"

"There are none."

"Third Reading. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading - Labor, on page 32 of the Calendar, appears House Bill 423. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 423, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Municipal Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 423 was a Bill which was advocated by the Associated Fire Fighters of Illinois. What it does is place the fire fighters and the police in Illinois who serve under the Civil Service Commission with regards to disciplinary actions under the same provisions of those police and fire who serve under police and fire service boards. The... under the Civil Service Commissions, a police officer or fire fighter, for example, could be disciplined for up to 30 days by a supervisor... a person directly above them in supervision and they feel it should be the same, and I agree with them, the same as under the police and fire boards whereby the police chief can discipline up to five days. After five days, it becomes a very serious matter and should follow the strict disciplinary procedures. I would appreciate your support. I think this is a reasonable Bill and should be a statewide standard."

"Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich, moves for the passage of House Bill 423, and on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day this question, May 20, 1987 there are 105 voting 'aye', 3 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On this Order of Reading appears House Bill 461. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 461, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Gentleman from Sangamon, Mr. Curran."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill simply brings us into compliance with federal regulations. It deletes language which terminates contractual relationship between teachers and the school board as of a teacher's 70th birthday. I just move for the adoption... for the... move the passage of 461."

"Gentleman from Sangamon moves for the passage of House Bill 461, and on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 106 voting 'aye', 5 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading - Labor, appears House Bill 678. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 678, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act concerning comparable worth. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Lady from Cook, Ms. Currie, on House Bill 678."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. House Bill 678 is a fiscally responsible effort to solve the problem of sex discrimination in wage rates for employees 63  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 of the State of Illinois and of those in this state's university system. The problem of sex based wage discrimination is a problem that's been recognized in this country for at least the last two decades. According to the National Academy of Sciences, women's work is not paid wages adequate to the value of that work to the employer because in this society work done by minorities and work done by women is not valued very highly. Women's work is not worth very much. Because many jobs in this society and in this state are dominated by one gender or another, the problem of pay equity is a real one. If you know what gender is likely to be the gender of reference in a particular wage category, it's easy for sex discrimination to creep into the wage rates themselves. The problem of pay equity is one that many states have begun to resolve. In fact, fully 40 of our sister states have already begun the kind of evaluation programs and study programs that will enable them to see to it that wage rates for all their employees are fair and do not include any discriminatory bases. Fourteen states have already begun implementing wage scales that are fair for minorities and for women. In fact, our neighbor state, Minnesota, has already fully implemented pay scales for all of its employees that do not discriminate on the basis of race or sex. Similarly, the State of Iowa, the State of New Jersey, New York, Oklahoma, all of these are moving rapidly down the course for a wage system that is fair and is equitable. The provisions of House Bill 678 are fiscally responsible. The Bill provides that both the Department of Central Management Services and the state universities' merit boards will adopt plans to implement pay equity in one year's time. The actual implementation of fair wage rates can be extended over a ten year period so as to make sure that our budget does not 64  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL AS SEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day Nay 20, 1987 go out of whack. I would be happy to answer your questions about the provisions of House Bill 673 and I would urge your support for its provisions."

"The Lady from Cook has moved for the passage of House 3ill 678, and on that, the Lady from Cook, Ms. Didrickson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield for a question or two?"

"Indicates that she will."

"Barbara, you mentioned the fact that neighboring states have already implemented comparable worth. What about Minnesota? My understanding is that they phased it in, that it was really about a $3100 pay raise per job category phased in over about four years and that what it really did was it put a lid on the higher paying male dominated jobs in order to bring up the lower paying female or women's work jobs."

"That is not my understanding, Representative Didrickson. Minnesota did fully implement pay equity over, I believe, a three year period and my understanding is that at there was neither diminution nor a cap placed on wage rates for nonfemale dominated job classes in order to make that experience work. In Minnesota, there is no labor strike. There are no lawsuits filed. As I understand it, the experience in Minnesota is one that shows that pay equity done in a sensible, sound and responsible manner can work well for the taxpayers, as well as for present victims of sex and race discrimination."

"Well, I would just like to comment on the fact that we have done a little research on this and we have had contacts... Central Management Service has had contact with the State of Minnesota. This pay raise that we instituted really was at the expense, as I understand it from 65  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day Minnesota, at the higher level paying May 20, 1987 male dominated job categories. If that is true, then I would like to refer back to the Status of Homen Commission study that prompted comparable worth in the State of Illinois whereby we found that when we start applying these rankings that by the study the 100 percent female dominated Secretary II job category received 288 points. It received more points than the 100 percent male dominated electrician job category of 276 points. Now, here we've got the Secretary II who's making $1486 dollars a month, but we've got an electrician who is making $2826 at the prevailing wage rate. Does that mean then that the Secretary II, because she got more points than the electrician, is going to have her salary doubled, more than the electrician? Is that your intent with comparable worth?"

"I would remind... I would remind you, Representative, that that was a preliminary pilot study paid for by the General Assembly, approved by the Governor. In order for pay equity to be implemented across the state personnel system, the Department of Central Management Services, under the provisions of House Bill 678, would be required to flesh out a plan for implementation. It is my understanding that that plan would require them to go back and look at all female dominated job classes and make certain decisions about the value of the work performed to the employer. So, I don't believe..."

"Okay, well, let's talk about another job category, if there is some fault there."

"Well, let me just finish. I don't believe..."

"What about the Clerk-typist II, who is 95 percent female dominated? Her wage there is $983 a month. Let's go to the stationary engineer. 100 percent male dominated. He's making $2389 a month. Her points are 170. His are 66  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 157. What happens there under your Bill?"

"What happens under this Bill is that the Department of Central Management Services and the university's merit board evaluate all of the jobs, not just the few jobs that were the subject of the pilot study that you presently refer to. I don't think that we can take the results of that study and extrapolate them across all job classes or even assume that the answers in that 1983 study will be the answers discovered by the Department of Central Management Services and the Merit Board under the provisions of House Bill 678."

"Well, what happens right now, under your Bill, then, if the Director of Central Management Services or the Merit Board and the university system determines just what I just said here in those two job categories, then what do you do?"

"Under my Bill, the Department of Central Management Services and the University Merit Board would have to create a plan to implement fair wage scales for minorities and for women by 1997."

"Well, is it your intent to have the unions or the state bargain these relative rankings? Does the Director of Central Management Services, does the Merit Board determine these rankings or does the collective bargaining unit determine these rankings under your Bill?"

"Collective bargaining under the provisions of House Bill 678 will help to establish the way in which the implementation happens. There is a ten year time period during which that collective bargaining process and the proposals of the Department of Central Management Services can be part of that negotiating process."

"Who is actually going to come in and take these 1500 job categories and apply those rankings to?" 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"The Department of May 20, 1987 of Central Management Services will do the evaluation of the present job classification system and the wage rates thereto attached. They will look at the complexity of the jobs themselves; that is the degree of effort, energy, skill and responsibility that go into the performance of those actual job categories and then they will make a determination whether the wage rates are responsive to the complexity of those jobs."

"So they will make those determinations, not the bargaining unit, in studying salary, in studying points."

"The study will be done by the Department of Central Management Services. The adjustments that may take place over the following nine years will be part of the collective bargaining process."

"Okay, so you have answered my question and that is the concern I would like to raise to those who purport to think that this is; (a) a good woman's issue or, (b) that the collective bargaining units are still going to be bargaining these points, putting these rankings on and allowing them to have the flexibility with regards to wages because it's taken out of their hands under House Bill 678. Who is going to be assigning these rankings and studying these wages then is going to be the Director of Central Management Services in conjunction with Hay Associates or Willis or whoever they bring in and they are arbitrarily going to be studying these rankings without any type of a standard. The standard was rejected last week. I say to you that if you really want to do something for women in the State of Illinois, you would have passed that Amendment last week whereby you would have moved women out of what's women's work and moved them into the male dominated job categories. It's always befuddled me why we think this is a good woman's issue. Why do we think that we want to 68  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 leave those 100 percent male dominated job categories - for example, a financial examiner III or an accountant V - why aren't we moving women into this type of work. You can't tell me that women aren't educated today and aren't able to do this. This is a phony issue. It's not workable. Since 1946, Senators Morse and Claude Pepper tried to institute comparable worth and every year since, but they could never define it. They could never nail it down. They couldn't put a standard to comparable worth. So what we did - or they did, at the national level, in 1963, was they instituted equal work for equal... equal pay for equal work and then they said, 'You can't have discrimination based on sex or race.' That stands today. Comparable worth isn't going to change that one bit. This is a phony issue. I don't believe in women's work. I would ask that you support it... you are going to set in to state law a mechanism that is going to trickle out into the private sector. I'm not certain how this affects prevailing wage, but I got a pretty good idea. You're not going to be able to live with this out there with regards to prevailing wage rates. That's going to cause you a lot of problems and your collective bargaining units aren't going to be deciding whose points are getting what and what job classifications are going to get what salary range. Look at this. I really ask you to do that and I ask for a "no" vote."

"Bring your remarks to a close, please. The Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I wasn't going to rise until I heard the last speaker because I did speak to this issue on Second Reading, but I want to repeat what I said on Second Reading because, as I said on Second Reading, I was a Sponsor of the Equal Rights 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DЕБАТЕ 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 Amendment and virtually all of the opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment said that if it were a matter or equal pay for equal work, they would be supportive of trying to bring equity, pay equity into the job market. They also said that their opposition to a Constitutional Amendment was that we ought to be doing this by statute. That's what we are doing now in the governmental sector. I don't think we ought to say categorically that this can't work because the Sponsor is being reasonable in giving a time frame so that it can work. It has progressed in other states like Minnesota and I don't think that we in Illinois should shy away from it. I also said on Second Reading that I had been Chairman of the Appropriations Committee about ten years ago and every time that we had a Director to appear before us and we raised the issue of affirmative action, they really gave lip service to it. So, I think that we ought to apply more than lip service when the evidence is overwhelming that women... for every dollar paid by men, women are paid about 59 cents for equal type of work. I think it's a matter of discrimination that we, as a Legislature, should be involved with, as a matter of public policy. So, I would urge the Members on both sides of the aisle to work towards this. It is something I think that all of us should be in favor of."

"The Gentleman from Livingston, Mr. Ewing."

"Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I raise... I rise reluctantly to oppose this Bill. I think that the discussion of comparable worth by this Body is very legitimate. I think it is a legitimate issue to be discussed in all of our state, in the halls of this General Assembly, in the Committee room, but I think that there have been some very good points made and I'd like to reiterate the point that this is being made into a sex 70  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 issue. I think that is a mistake. I think that this state and the nation itself has moved a great deal of distance towards pay equity and yet, we want to now come in with legislation that would force some other inequities on our system. Things are moving. That's why I think the discussion of this issue is good, but I sat in on some of the hearings that were held in the Committee and Ladies and Gentlemen, I think that those were pretty much a staged dog and pony show. They weren't listening to the opponents, only to the proponents. The Sponsor of this Bill was the Chairman of the Committee. That all worked in very nicely, but there are some downsides to passing this. There are some downsides to putting this in the statute and a lot of it has to do with jobs for your constituents and my constituents. Now, if we want to eliminate jobs in Illinois and if we want to send a signal from this state that we are going to eliminate jobs, then we want to put this in the law. I think we need to continue to discuss pay equity. I think we need to move forward on it as fast as possible, but this is not the right way. We shouldn't do this today. We shouldn't send those signals. We should vote this Bill down."

"The Gentleman from McLean, Mr. Ropp."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield, please?"

"Indicates she will yield for questions."

"Madam Currie, let me ask a question relative to the procedure in the Bill as it pertains to determining the value of one position in comparison to another. How is that really determined in your proposal?"

"The Department of Central Management Services will adopt a plan. They will, in effect, be responsible for evaluating present job classification, status, responsibilities and wage rates. Once that plan is 71  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 adopted, then adjustments in wage rates, if any are necessary, will be a function of the collective bargaining process. The Department will have until 1997 fully to implement the plan that it proposes."

"Well, is it your understanding that in this plan that there is no attempt to reduce some potential positions in terms of salary, based on whatever decision that plan might be?"

"Absolutely, Representative. The issue here is one of sex discrimination in the wage rates. In civil rights law, we make whole the victims of sex or race discrimination. We do not try to make less whole other individuals who were not themselves the victims or the perpetrators of the injustice. There is no issue here about wage reduction. The only issue is to make sure that the complexity of the jobs that are done by either predominantly minority or predominantly female job classes warrant wage rates in relation to that complexity."

"Is there any provision in the Bill that then would require certain kinds of jobs to actually produce a certain amount of work based on this new classification that they might have?"

"The Department of Central Management Services will evaluate the actual requirements of the female or minority dominated job classes and they will look then to see whether the complexity now prescribed by the Department is responsibly related to the wage rates of that job class."

"Alright, thank you. To the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed, Sir."

"Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is certainly an issue that is of major concern to some people and tragically enough, in my judgment, it is near impossible to make classifications based on one job being equal to or 72  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 more valuable than another. And it seems that we are only creating a mini-monster should this dill become a reality, for if this Bill passes, the potential increased costs are staggering. Not that we are opposed to providing a fair wage for a fair kind of work, based on the market place and the kind of production that that should bring forth based on the ability of the individual, but to make those standards mandatory is something that we should not necessarily get involved with. The thing that is even a greater potential problem is the fact that should this get involved in the private sector, as this could very well do, we are sending the wrong signals to business who might want to consider coming into the State of Illinois and I think that's one of the real concerns that this General Assembly has had for the last several years. attempting to bring jobs into our state, rather than to, should this Bill pass, telling business that we are not interested in your business or the jobs that you may bring into our state or into our communities. And therefore, I urge all Members of this House, who are thinking Members of the future, to oppose this Bill as it is now written."

"Gentleman from Bureau, Mr. Hautino."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Lady yield for questions?"

"Indicates she will yield for questions."

"Representative Currie, your legislation, as amended, Currie: provides for comparable worth in the government sector and the university setting, is that correct?" "That is correct."

"Last Session, when you brought this legislation to the Currie: Committee, it was drafted only for governmental employees, was it not?" "That is correct." 73  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"And your response to questions in that Committee was that it was to be a study with implementation for government workers with no intention of expanding it to either the private sector or the university sector, was that not the case?"

"My recollection, Representative, is that when the question was raised as to the private sector, I shared with you my belief that private sector wage rate issues are already covered by both federal and state civil rights laws so that there is no need for legislation affecting the private sector."

"Well, I respectfully disagree with that evaluation, as you know, but may I ask a question? By implementation of this legislation, what would the actual cost be to the State of Illinois for their employees and the university sector?"

"Until we have a plan drafted by the Department of Central Management Services and by the State Universities Merit Board, it is difficult, if not impossible, to gauge the cost. I can tell you that the experience..."

"Would you say a hundred million dollars would be in the ballpark?"

"It could... it could well be a lot less than that. The experience in cities like Los Angeles, in states like Minnesota, in other governmental units that have implemented pay equity is that the cost is somewhere around two percent of the overall payroll cost. But that is experience in other states. Illinois may already be further ahead in the area of pay equity than some of the states like Minnesota and Iowa and it may be that the cost to us will not be so great. But because we don't know the cost and because there is concern about cost, we introduced this Bill with a ten year period for implementation so that 74  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 the cost factor in any one year could not, under any circumstances, be the kind of budgetary issue that would cause alarm and consternation among the taxpayers."

"Well, then, would you consider, in evaluating the cost, would you obtain or did you have an idea what the pension impact would be based upon the increased provisions of the compensation? Do you have any idea what that might be as well?"

"Again, I don't think we can answer that question with any certainty until we see the plan from the Department of Central Management Service and the plan from the Merit Board. There is not, in my understanding... Minnesota, which, as I say, has already implemented pay equity, they did so, in fact, ahead of their own schedule and the sky has not fallen, nor has the economy fallen apart, nor is the state budget in disarray."

"May I ask this question? In your legislation, for legislative intent purposes, you are addressing comparable worth. In that regard, what classification of individuals are you addressing? Are you addressing the - and I will use this only as an example - class one, let's be... let's say, class one, secretarial, clerical, middle management, et cetera, with wage scales being anywhere from, let's say $12,000 a year to $20,000 a year, or are you addressing the area of $20,000 to $40,000 a year or $40,000 to $80,000 a year? What are you addressing?"

"My understanding is that in other states that have already begun either to evaluate or to implement pay equity, the procedure is to look at the female or minority dominated job classes, whether they are low paying or high paying. In fact the answer is I don't think there are any high paying female or minority dominated job classes in the State of Illinois, but they take all of the female or 75  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 minority dominated job classes and they look at the content of the job in each of those classes. They compare the complexity, the requirements of those jobs, with the..."

"Representative Currie, what classification financially are you addressing? The 10 to 20, the 20 to 40, or the 40 to 70? Very simple."

"It is not... You don't choose the job classes on the basis of the pay rates. You choose the job classes to evaluate on the basis of the preponderance of the gender or the race that holds those jobs, so that the pilot study in Illinois examined a... just a sample of primarily female job categories and predominantly male job categories in order to assess the relationship across those categories of job complexity and wage rates. So, it didn't have to do with how much the job was..."

"Bring your remarks to a close, please."

"... was worth."

"I have a few more questions, Mr. Speaker."

"Well, I have been timing, Mr. Mautino, but proceed. I'll let you go over the limit for a moment or two, but please, bring your remarks to a close."

"I'm keeping my questions very compact, if you'll notice, Sir."

"I understand, but there are many people seeking recognition."

"Alright. For example, we in the Department of Corrections have a security guard I, whether that's male or female is immaterial. The funding mechanism for that pay is whatever it is for a male or female guard, correct?"

"That is correct."

"That's by contract as well as by classification with the Department of Central Management Services. Isn't that correct?" 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL AS SEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Yes, let me just say that the issue..."

"So, how do we make that any better?"

May 20, 1987 "Because the issue here is not jobs that are already sex or race integrated. The issue is that in female dominated or minority dominated job classes studies in other jurisdictions and our preliminary study in Illinois suggested that although wages go up with complexity, in female dominated job classes, the wage rates are about 20 percent lower than they are acrosS male dominated job classes, looking at the relationship between complexity and wage rates for that group. So, it's only the occupationally segregated job classes that are the point, the target of House Bill 678."

"I still don't understand which jobs those are. That's the line of my questioning. To the legislation, if I may, Mr. Speaker."

"Well, very briefly, please, Mr. Mautino."

"Mr. Speaker, I'm sorry to take the time of the House but I think it's an important issue because..."

"Proceed, Sir."

"...as Representative Ewing says, we're making policy. In my estimation, as I read the legislation, we are not making policy for evaluating and upgrading certain of the employees at lower levels. He are providing assistance at the higher levels of the State of Illinois through the educational system and the government employees system. But the policy we're making started a Session ago with only state employees, governmental. Today, it is in the university setting, and tomorrow, it will be in the private sector which is totally impossible to evaluate and to implement. If you are going to make a policy, I recommend most highly that we abide by contractual agreements which has been the history of this state and very agreeable with 77  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 the employees of the State of Illinois and I'm sure of the college setting. So, I find it very difficult to establish a policy that I know, in the future immediate future, I might add will be assessed in the private sector that is literally impossible to implement and probably will have ramifications that we certainly don't need in this state."

"Thank you. Ms. Parcells."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield to a question?"

"Indicates that she will. I will tell you that we have a number of people that are seeking recognition. I am going to try and hold everybody to five minutes, as required by the rules. Proceed."

"The first speaker mentioned that the clerk-typist was rated higher than the electrician in that first study and you said, "Well, that was merely preliminary study." Would that indicate that the second study might be different and the third study might be different and the fourth study could be yet different?"

"My suggestion was that the preliminary findings from 1983 may not be applicable to state practices in 1987. My second point is that this Bill requires the Department itself to do an evaluation of the job classes that are sex or race predominant and that based on that evaluation, the Department will implement equitable wage rates over a ten year period. There is a practice... in fact, about 70 percent of the people who work outside the home in this country are subject to these kinds of job evaluation systems. Most major employers, whether governmental or private sector employers, use evaluation techniques to rationalize many items in their work forces. To use those same techniques to apply to the problem of wage based sex discrimination is hardly a venture outside the realm of 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day everyday experience in this country today."

May 20, 1987 "Thank you. Ladies and Gentlemen, I must oppose this Bill. I think the Sponsor is well-meaning, but this is, indeed, a remedy looking for a problem. The Sponsor has missed the problem entirely. The problem is the jobs women have traditionally chosen, not the fact that women dominate a particular job category. Instead of trying to compare unequal jobs and tinkering with the fair market system which has been the backbone of our country for 200 years, this is a misguided attempt to raise women's salaries. We should be encouraging women to step out of the traditional jobs and venture into new areas. The climate has never been better for doctors, lawyers or engineers. Let's not discourage women by artificially raising their wages through some mystical voodoo formula, very inexact science. This will just hold them in their traditional jobs forever. We should instead be encouraging them to seek new horizons. This Bill will simply enforce the perception that there's women's work and there's men's work and women can never get out of their mold. Every woman in this House got out of the mold and dared to run for election in a male dominated field and guess what. We won and we earn exactly what our male colleagues earn. Why discourage other women from trying to do the same thing and taking on new challenges. There is no possible way to compare a clerk-typist with an electrician or a plumber. An electrician takes his life into his hands every day when he plays with 220 volts and the truck driver is hot and he drives for many hours and he's gone for weeks. How can you compare these jobs? You can't. But if women want those jobs, they can get them. They are hiring in all those fields. They can choose their job. Their job doesn't choose them. And one more thing, folks, if you vote for this Bill, you better be prepared to 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL AS SEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 raise taxes because the cost will be enormous. Tell your constituents to have their checkbooks ready because this is a big ticket item. We start at about $130 million every year and we move up rapidly from there. And that's not all. When the private sector sees this cockamamie plan we have devised, they'll leave the state. They will know they are next on this hit list. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a classic case of looking to government to solve a problem and discovering that government is the problem. You will open a Pandora's box here that will not only hurt Illinois, but is absolutely counterproductive to women by encouraging them to stay in their traditional mold instead of embarking on new and exciting careers. I encourage your 'no' vote on this misguided legislation."

"Lady from LaSalle, Ms. Breslin."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen, I remember a few years ago when the Members of this Assembly were astonished when they learned that university professors at the University of Illinois were paid less than maintenance engineers. At that time, there was a major effort by this Assembly to increase appropriations to our university system to correct that inequity. Well, let me tell you that university professors and maintenance engineers are not the same jobs, but this Assembly was convinced that one should be paid more than the other and we were offended that the world was topsy-turvy. Today, in the university system in the State of Illinois, a routeman, a traditionally male dominated profession, a man who carries things, shuttles things from one office to another, is paid $10.03 an hour. A secretary III in transcribing who must have advanced education is paid $4.14. $10.03 for a routeman and $4.14 for a transcriber, both people who have to feed and clothe and house their children and 80  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 educate them the same way. The issue before you, Ladies and Gentlemen, in my view, is not an issue of discrimination. The issue before you is the feminization of poverty in this state. This Bill does not affect the public sector and I would not have it affect the public... the private sector, rather. This Bill only affects the public sector. This Bill says that the State of Illinois recognizes that traditionally female dominated jobs are undervalued in this society and that has contributed to the feminization of poverty in this state. Many say that's left to the market place. Let the market place determine wages. I would remind you, Ladies and Gentlemen, that the market place in the United States has traditionally discriminated. It discriminated against blacks. That gave rise to equal pay for equal work in the civil rights movement of the 1960's and rightfully so. Equal pay for equal work won't solve the problem of pay inequities between jobs. It's my view that this state and this Assembly should set an example for private industry. It shouldn't mandate this on private industry, but we should say, for ourselves, we should do it right. Pay equity is doable. It is not a phony issue. Several, several, several states have already done it. The Federal Government already has an evaluation system in place and it's been in place for 37 years. Big states and little states have addressed this issue. Little states like South Dakota and West Virginia and Vermont, they were able to do it. Farm states like Iowa, Michigan and Wisconsin, they were able to do it. Big industrial states like California and New York have been able to do it. Why not Illinois? I will close by saying don't be swayed by phony arguments. This issue affects women and blacks and poverty. It's a good Bill. Vote 'aye'." 81  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"Gentleman from Madison, Mr. Wolf."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"Gentleman from Madison moves that the previous question be put. Those in favor say 'aye, opposed "no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye, those opposed vote "no". Voting is now open. This is on the previous question that Mr... has been put. On this... take the record. On this question, there are 62 'aye', 45 'no', 1 'present' and the Motion fails. Now, Mr. Parke... Mr. Parke, in this Legislature, we use expressions like the learned Gentleman, the Honorable Sir, and things like that. I am bringing decorum back to this room and I have just declared the Motion failed. And Mr. Parke, you will please accommodate us by having... excuse me, excuse me. You will please continue to conduct yourself with decorum henceforth, Mr. Parke, and I admonish you from the Chair for screaming in that way. You were... you did receive a vote. Now, proceeding on the discussion. The Gentleman from Morgan, Mr. Ryder. The Gentleman from Coles, Mr. Weaver."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield, please?"

"Indicates she will yield for questions."

"As I read your Bill, the rates... over here, the rates are established by the Merit Board, correct, or through CMS? The evaluations?"

"The evaluation is done by, on the one hand, CMS, and on the other, by the Merit Board."

"Now, if I am an employee of the state and I don't agree with the evaluation or the number of points awarded to my job classification, what, then, is my appeal procedure?"

"Well, I suppose you could take the state into court and sue it. Let me tell you though that the lawsuit..." 82  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"I'd take them to court and sue them?"

May 20, 1987 "What I am suggesting is that the lawsuits that have been filed on this issue of sex and race discrimination in this state and in other states across the country have been filed precisely because state managers have refused to take seriously their responsibilities to make sure that there is not discrimination in the pay scales. So, my sense is that CMS would do a respectable and responsible job in evaluating the extent of the problem of pay inequity in State of Illinois personnel programs and I think that their answer would be a sound and sensible, responsible one."

"And how does seniority figure in the point system of job evaluation?"

"The kind of evaluation that's called for under the provisions of House Bill 678 is to look at the complexity of the jobs themselves. Seniority would not be affected by the evaluation techniques in this Bill."

"So this would effectively eliminate seniority in jobs in the State of Illinois?"

"No... Sir... Wrong, Representative. What I said is that this Bill will not interfere with seniority as a negotiated reason for higher or lower wage rates in any individual job class."

"But it..."

"This will not affect the present status of seniority in the collectively bargained wage rates for any job class in the State of Illinois."

"So, CMS will essentially set the job value and then we will come back in and negotiate on that job value? What's the point of setting the value in the first place if we are going to simply go back and renegotiate the whole thing anyway?"

"The Department of Central Management Services and the 83  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 50th Legislative Day University Merit Board will establish the degree of responsiblity, skill, energy, effort, know-how that goes into the performance of the jobs in the affected job classes. Based upon that evaluation, the collective bargaining process will negotiate, over a ten year period, with those agencies in determining what kinds of adjustments need be made. But nothing in the Bill will in any way undercut the present status of seniority as a measure of pay... pay rates for any individual job class."

"If... and the Bill is reasonably simple and short, under your Bill, should this become law, are there any provisions, once the job value is established, and there suddenly appears to be a shortage of applicants, is there anything in your Bill that would allow the state to pay more money for that job classification in order to hire the people it needs?"

"Two things. First of all, adjustments in ranges and rates under the schedule for attaining comparable worth can be made annually. The second item is that we still involve this whole issue in the collective bargaining process. This is not done by fiat from the Governor's Office or from the Department of Central Management Services. The collective bargaining agents will negotiate with those bodies to attain a responsible and reasonable pay schedule."

"But, for example, if we have a problem in Illinois hiring computer programers, and because the market rate in the private sector has just gone out of sight for it, we have to wait a year to adjust the salary range for that job in order to hire these people? Is that..."

"I can't believe, Representative, that the Department that is in charge of hiring those people would not, understanding the economy as well as they do, recognize 84  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 problems as they are appearing on the economic horizon and make sure that they are in a good position to respond at that point. Let me remind you that when there was a nurse shortage in the State of Illinois, it was the effort of some through this Assembly to make sure that we could hire a lot of people who did not meet present nursing qualifications just so that employers did not compete by raising the wages paid to the people who cared for our ill and our sick."

"But in terms of the private market effects on this system, if the system does adjust itself and ascribes a Currie: higher salary range for a job simply because the people are harder to get, because there is a shortage, does that mean that all other jobs that are reasonably close to that one in evaluation must also be raised?" "Not under the terms of this Bill. The terms of this Bill require that the job classifications be evaluated based on the evaluation of collective bargaining process will be put in place to work on adjustments if the Department's plan calls for adjustments in individual job classes. Let me remind you that other states are doing it, the City of Los Angeles has done it. This is not a brand new scheme that suddenly appears here in the State of Illinois with no precedent, with no background. We know that it works. We have examples of places where it does work and the suggestion that we can't make it work in Illinois suggests to me that you don't have the kind of faith in our Governor and his agencies, the same kind of faith that I do and I know the people of this state do, to run things in sound managerial effective and efficient practices."

"Yeah, yeah... thank you. Mr... Mr. Speaker, to the Bill." 85  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Proceed, Sir." May 20, 1987

"While I agree with the premise and with the idea, and perhaps it does work efficiently and effectively in other areas, the mechanics of this Bill simply prohibit it from competing with the private sector for the people that we need to work in the State of Illinois and effectively will cause more problems than it solves. The Sponsor of the Bill has already admitted that the only opportunity that people under this system have for appeal is to go to court. Now, it is not our intention in this Body, I think, to provide additional jobs for attorneys, but this is what it is going to effectively do. This Body should not be in the posture of passing out incomplete or flawed legislation in the hopes that sometime in the future it's going to be worked out. While I agree with the premise, I think the mechanics of this Bill are seriously flawed and we need to take a little bit more time and look at it before we pass it out. Thank you."

"The Lady from Cook, Hs. Braun."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in support of this legislation. I realize that emotions are running high in this chamber over this issue which has received national, if not international attention, but I would ask my colleagues if for a minute you would step back from all of the propaganda and the hoopla that has surrounded the name comparable worth and take a look at what it is that the Lady has actually proposed here. Very simply and to the point, this Bill suggests that we take a look at whether or not the employment system is fair. There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with opening our minds to an investigation of whether or not there is fairness in the way that these institutions have been put together, in the 86  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 way that employment patterns have developed over time. Whether or not the answer will come back to us that it's fair or not fair, fairer to some than it is to others, is really not the point. The only point is that we should take a look. He should declare it the public policy of this state to take a look and see whether or not the emperor has any clothes on. I suggest to you... I suggest to you, Ladies and Gentlemen, that all that Representative Currie and the supporters of this Bill are asking us to do is to open our minds, to take a good look at what is really going on. to inform ourselves. There can never be anything wrong with information. There can never be anything wrong with taking a look and seeing whether or not we are doing the right thing. I encourage you that a 'yes' vote on this Bill is the right thing."

"Gentleman from Vermilion, Mr. Black." "Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Assembly. To the Bill. One of the fascinating processes of this Assembly is that, as the Lady just said, we may all agree with a concept. We all certainly want to be fair. The two words, comparable worth, cause, I think, no major concern with anybody on either side of the aisle, but the fascinating process here is that we can and do differ philosophically on how we get to a point of fairness, as the Lady from Cook just mentioned. As the father of a daughter, I'm certainly interested in fairness for her. As the husband of a working wife, I'm certainly interested in fairness for her, but there are some things the concern me about the Bill that is currently before us. The fiscal note, as someone mentioned earlier is 128 million dollars. 128 million dollars, not paid for by the State of Illinois, which we so often like to say, paid for by the taxpayers of this state who are letting all of us 87  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 know their feelings on taxes. That's just to get us to the level. I would submit to you then, how much more money. every time someone gets a raise, to adjust the entire system? Fairness? Perhaps. Can you afford that kind of fairness? I have my doubts. The State of Washington has thus far spent 450 million dollars trying to implement this program. Lastly, a concern for my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. Would this process diminish in any way the long-fought for right to bargain wages, conditions, hours and terms of employment that many of you have fought so eloquently for for so many years? In all due respect to the Sponsor of the Bill, while fairness is, indeed, an issue that we can all identify with, I don't think this is the way to get to it. I urge a 'no' vote on the Bill."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Harris."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Question of the Sponsor."

"Indicates she will yield for questions."

"Yes, Representative, if I may, one of the previous speakers indicated that women were paid approximately 59 cents on the dollar to what a man is paid. Is that... is that correct?"

"Ms. Currie."

"The latest statistics I have seen suggest that the average, full-time, year round female woman... person working outside the home in this country today is earning 64 cents on the dollar earned by the average, full-time, male, year round employee. That figure..."

"Is that... Is that also accurate for the State of Illinois, do you know?"

"Pardon me?"

"Is that also accurate for the State of Illinois?"

"I do not have a state by state break down, but I would remind you that that figure has been about the same for the 88  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASS EMELY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 last 50, five-oh, years, every since the Department of Labor, the United States Department of Labor, began keeping statistics on wage rates by gender in the United States work force. He have seen little change, never mind the Civil Rights Act, over that period."

"Do you know what the average monthly payroll is for females in the State of Illinois, average monthly paycheck, rather?"

"For the full... the full work force? I don't have that statistic, but I can tell you... I can tell you that for State of Illinois employees, 86 percent of the women who work for State Government earn $16,000 or less. Only 14 percent of our male employees earn a salary that smal1."

"You indicated, I believe, in response to one of the earlier questions, that you felt that the cost would probably be about two percent of the total payroll, is that correct?"

"The experience in states like Hinnesota, cities like Los Angeles, is that somewhere around two percent of payroll is the ultimate cost of implementing pay equity."

"Do you know what the payroll is..."

"Other states are in the process and I can't give you figures from them."

"Do you know what the payroll is in the State of Illinois?"

"I don't have that figure in front of me."

"Okay. One final question I have, you indicated that the... a study is to be done and I believe that's conducted by Central Management Services. The example was drawn of, I believe, an electrician and a stenographer or something along those lines. One might receive 220 points, one might receive 280 points. You said that if there was a large difference there that then CMS would make some final 89  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 determination as to how they would rate it."

"Through the collective bargaining process."

"I see. Okay."

"The adjustments themselves would be made through collective bargaining."

"Thank you. To the Bill, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, just a couple of additions to the questions which I asked the Sponsor. The State of Illinois, as you well know, has in its Constitution an anti-discrimination on the basis of sex provision anyway. The State of Illinois happens to be a leader. At this point right now, happens to be..."

"Proceed. Proceed, Sir. You had completed your five minutes, but proceed. Turn Mr. Harris on."

"Thank you very much. The State of Illinois happens to be a leader in nondiscrimination in terms of payroll. In the State of Illinois right now, the average paycheck for a female, a monthly paycheck, is $1700. The average monthly paycheck for a male is 20... $2000. Yes, there is some difference, but it is not nearly as great as what has been purported. It is not 59 cents to the dollar, but rather is 81 and a half cents to the dollar. We are indeed already moving in the right direction."

"Bring your remarks to a close."

"Let's look at the question... one final point, if I may. Let's look at the question of cost. The Sponsor herself has indicated that the estimated cost is two percent of payroll. Ladies and Gentlemen, the average payroll or the... not the average, the payroll in the State of Illinois is 1.6 billion dollars. I am not a mathematic great, but I'll tell you two percent of 1.6 billion is 320 million, it's not 130. There is a serious problem here in terms of this Bill. It deserves a 'no' vote and we should 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day not at this time move in this direction.

May 20, 1987 Thank you." "Gentleman from Cook, Hr. Young."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman of the House. I rise just, I guess, in response to a few of the comments that have been made during this debate. First of all, one of the previous speakers mentioned that this was somewhat of a phony issue. Well, I certainly take exception to that and I'd like to just list some of the organizations who do not think this is a phony issue and who, in fact, have come out in support of this issue. They include the Illinois Nurses' Association, the Illinois Religious Network for Equality for Women, the Illinois State Division, American Association of University Women, the Chicago National Organization for Woman, the Chicago Nurses Association, the Coalition of Labor Union Women, the Latino Institute, the League of Women Voters of Illinois, Springfield National Organization for Women, the AFL-CIO, AFSCME Council 31, AFSCME Local 1271 and I could stand here and use my whole five minutes reading the list of groups who have organized in support of this issue, but I think I have said enough on that point. One of the previous speakers mentioned that... the cost to the State of Washington. Well, one reason that it cost Washington so much is because they were taken to court and lost and not only had to implement this program, but had to implement back wages and most of the large sums of money he mentioned were back wages implemented because the court ordered it because Washington wouldn't willingly comply. I'd like to emphasize, Ladies and Gentlemen, that we are already in court on this issue. In 1983, a Federal Court found us guilty of sex based discrimination. If we don't implement this legislation at this time, we lend ourselves to the possibility of getting hit for back wages and more damages 91  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 than we now might already face. And finally, I'd just like to ask your support for this legislation and emphasize again it's not a phony issue. It's an issue whose time has already come. It's an issue that we are currently in litigation, and it's an issue whose price tag, regardless of how large it is now, is only going to grow and grow and grow if this issue is... implementation of pay equity is forced on us by the courts. So, let's not make the courts force us to do what we all know, in good conscience, should have been done some time ago."

"Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Peterson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates she'll yield for questions."

"Representative, could you tell me if women faculty members of our institutions of higher learning will be affected if this legislation passes?"

"I believe that the employees that are in the... in House Bill 678 are the nonacademic employees, those that are under the control of the Merit Board. Similarly, cabinet members in State Government do not fall under the provisions of this Bill, for they are not under the direction of the Department of Central Management Services."

"Okay, so those professional instructors and professors are not covered by this particular piece of legislation?"

"That is my understanding."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Parke."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think it's somewhat naive to presume that if this kind of legislation is passed that the next step would not go to the private sector. I think that that is something that is a reality and I think that is one of the reasons 92  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 why we see such union support for this kind of legislation. In addition, it's been alluded a number of times in the conversations here on the floor that Minnesota has been pointed to as a state that has implemented this and is doing so well with it. I might point out to the Members of this Body that the personal income tax in the State of Minnesota is between six and seven percent which is a heavy burden that the taxpayers of that state must bear and that one of the reasons that they are having such a high personal income tax is because of the implementation of this kind of legislation. I might also say that last month I was talking to some citizens from Minnesota who stated that many of the jobs of Minnesota are leaving. They are going to other states because it is an unhealthy business climate there. I will also say that when you lose business in a state and you have government services that must be provided, there is only one place that you can seek new tax revenues and that must be on the backs of the taxpayers of that state. Minnesota recently enacted a huge tax increase. I submit that if we pass this kind of legislation that what has been proposed for a tax increase will be small potatoes compared to what will have to be asked for a year or two years from now to implement these kind of programs. I don't believe the taxpayers of Illinois sent the Legislators down here to implement these kind of high tax, high expense programs. You know, we only have a dollar of state tax revenue to spend and we are talking about this is a Bill that is going to upgrade minorities and women's issues. Well, I might want to point out to you, with this dollar that we have, we can only spend it so many ways. I think that if you pass this kind of legislation, this is an unwise way of spending that dollar because I think we can implement so many other 93  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 worthwhile programs for women and minorities that are going to do a much better job than implementing a program like this that we have no negotiation rights on. It's just something that's going to be there to try and raise the level of pay. I might also point out that I have the fiscal note in front of me, and the fiscal note says to implement this program next year, to just get it up to the level of what comparable worth, according to this Bill, will implement will cost the taxpayers of Illinois $72,000,000. That's just to get it up based on what it is now. I might also point out, as was mentioned earlier, the university employees of Illinois are not even included in this Bill, to give you an idea of the kind of tax burden we're going to be sticking on the taxpayers of Illinois. This is an unwise Bill. I don't think it's going to help do the job that the Sponsor wants to do. This $72,000,000 for next year alone, I might point out is just part of the phase-in program. This is a ten year program. Can you imagine what it's going to cost the taxpayers of Illinois over the course of the next 10 years if $72,000,000 is just next year's cost for implementing it? I think this is an unwise Bill. I think the taxpayers of Illinois are going to give you a voice in the next couple of months saying we are tired of taxes, and I think this will just increase taxes in Illinois. Mr. Speaker, I ask if this Bill does get the required number of votes that we have a Verified Roll Call."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Pederson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. When the Representative gave us our litany a little while ago, the long list of groups that's for this Bill, I think most of us recognize it as a list that wants more government in almost everything we do. And I think that 94  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1937 they are for it because they expect that this concept will be extended into the private sector and further their big government goals. And the other thing is that we hear this business about the State of Washington. Actually, the State of Washington won that case and the reason they had to come up with all that money is because the Legislature panicked and got real nervous and started putting this thing into effect and going... making up for past years and spending all this money. It's really a sign of... I guess you would call it legislative ineptitude. This type of legislation, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, puts into a system that is very subjective. It eliminates the supply and demand aspects. It really creates a big can of worms that we'll be fussing around with with government and bureaucrats and judges for years. It sends the wrong signal to the private sector and I urge a 'no' vote."

"Lady from Cook, Ms. Currie, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. An opponent of House Bill 678 suggests that the Bill is a remedy in search of a problem. The problem, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, is that women working outside the home in this country today earn 60 percent of the wages of men working full-time year-round outside the home today. The problem, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, is that 80 percent of the women who work outside the home in this country today work in a handful of low paying professions. They work as nurse, as secretary, as day care worker, as librarian. The problem, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, is that wages for those jobs are artificially undervalued because in this society, women's work has not been worth very much. I believe the laborer is worthy of his or her hire and I believe that we, as state government, have a responsibility to the people who work for us. We 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 have a responsibility to see to it that their wage rates are equal to the work we extract from them. That's all that's involved in House Bill 678, an effort to see that complex jobs performed by women and minorities are paid rates equivalent to that complexity to the value of the work that they do for us. It's been suggested that we can't afford this Bill. One opponent mentioned the figure $72,000,000. He, I believe, misread the fiscal note from the Department of Central Management Services. There is minimal cost in this Bill next year to work the provisions of House Bill 678 and any substantive dollars that might be spent to adjust wage rates will be spent over the next ten years. If the full cost is $72,000,000, 7.2 million dollars a year to ensure fair wage rates for the women and minorities working for us in state government is hardly too high a price to pay. Can we afford not to do pay equity? Can we afford to say to the women and children of this state, "We will continue balancing our budgets on your backs?' Can we continue to pay for the costs of an unfair wage system, the costs we pay through an expanded welfare program. Our taxpayers are footing the Bill right now for our failure to see to it that we set the kind of example that we in state government must set, to see to it that nobody in this society is unfairly victimized by virtue of race and sex discrimination. House Bill 678 assumes that we are opposed already to sex and race discrimination. House Bill 678 merely ensures that we do not stand watchdog over a pay system in state government that encourages, promotes and continues instances of race and sex discrimination. I urge your support for House Bill 678."

"Question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open and this is final action. The Gentleman 96  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 from St. Clair, Mr. Stephens, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm afraid that the Sponsor might have closed on the wrong Bill there. We started talking about some very tangential issues. The fact of the matter is that we ought to follow the lead of private industry and not try to lead them down a primrose path. This is social engineering. This is the way they do it in Russia. This is... if you want... if you believe in socialism, you believe in this issue. If you want to make the cost of government go up, then vote 'yes'. If you want... if you believe in responsible government, if you believe in the cost of government ought to be held in check, then you ought to be voting 'no'. I vote 'no'."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Sutker, one minute to explain your vote."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the chamber. I'd like to explain my vote because I think this is a very significant piece of legislation and I'd like to point out to all people here on both sides of the aisle that the State of Illinois has an obligation to lead the way and not to follow. If private sector does follow, may I suggest to you it will follow because what is done here is right today and we will have led the entire state to show that this Assembly is concerned by all of the people and where we know injustices occur, we have acted. I vote 'aye'."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman, one minute Bowman: to explain your vote." "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While it is... just for the record, while it is my wish not to vote on anything that affects the economic interests of universities, the... I note that the University of Illinois has not taken a 97  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 position on this Bill, and therefore, I feel free to vote "aye."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Preston, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in support of this Bill and I want to comment on one of the remarks made by a previous speaker who said that the State of Illinois cannot afford this kind of legislation. Well, you know, when we, in this country, did away with slavery that could be conceived of as costing the taxpayer a great deal of money. This, I suppose, may cost the taxpayers some money. but it is doing what is right, what is long overdue, to say that we should pay people what they are worth regardless of whether they are men or women is what this organization, this General Assembly ought to be about. So, I'd like to see a lot more red... green votes up there and I vote 'aye'."

"Lady from Champaign, Ms. Satterthwaite, one minute to explain your vote."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, we don't really know what the cost of this legislation will be, but I suggest to you that the more costly it is, the more guilty we are of discriminating unfairly against half of our population in the state. I don't want to have on my conscience a vote that indicates that I am not for fairness. If, in fact, it is a costly program it is only because we have failed to live up to our duty in the past and we should take that responsibility immediately and go forward from here to adjust it as rapidly as we can possibly afford to do that. As was indicated earlier, we should not wait for a court suit to which we are compelled to respond. We should take the responsibility into our own hands, as a responsible legislative Body to see that any 98  STATE OF ILLINOIS 35th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 inequities that are found to exist are eradicated. I proudly vote 'yes' for this legislation."

"The Gentleman from McCracken... Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken, one minute to explain your vote."

"Just to seek a verification if this appears to get the requisite number of votes."

"That's already been requested. Thank you. Mr. Parke made that request. The Lady from Cook, Ms. Flowers, one minute to explain your vote."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, one of the previous speakers stated that there are SO many other things that can be done for women and minorities as opposed to passing House Bill 678. I rise up into opposition to his statement. If this Bill passes, we will not need any favors. We will be able to get it ourselves because we will have equal pay for equal work. And I would urge the passage of House Bill 678. Thank you."

"The Lady from Lake, Ms. Stern, one minute to explain your vote."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I have been mulling over something that was said early in the debate about how we women who are in the House have earned our way here. We worked for it, we got elected and I think it behooves us to behave in a different way than the Member who made that statement. I think we represent the aspirations of thousands, thousands, millions of women and I think it is on us, the incubus of this is on us to be Leaders in this matter. I was, at one time, the sole support of four small children and I can tell you this is a matter that means something to me and I think it should mean something to every woman in this House, as well as to every man who cares about fair play and that famous old cliche, the even playing field. I urge your 'aye vote." 99  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 57 voting 'aye", 56 voting 'no", 3 voting 'present and the Bill fails. Yes, Ms. Currie, were you seeking recognition? On this Order appears House Bill 810. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 810, a Bill for an Act in relation to plant closings and relocations. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Panayotovich, on House Bill 810."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 810 creates the Labor Management Notification and Consultation Act. What this Bill does is aimed at the problem of plant closings and relocation. It affects the industrial and commercial facilities that have at least 50 employees, which previous Bills have been 25 which business had a problem with so we raised it to 50. I believe it was 25 at one time. Employer gives 90 days advance notice to employees and government agencies. At one time, the Bill read 180 days. We went down to 90. An employer consults with employees in good faith and with certain exceptions, discloses relevant information to their employees. It establishes a job prevention task force and it also creates a council for economic adjustment. And I move for passage of this Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Panayotovich, moves for the passage of House Bill 810, and on that, the Lady from Cook, Ms. Didrickson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hould the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Indicates he will."

"Sam, plant closing legislation." 100  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day Panayotovich:

"Yes, Ma'am." May 20, 1987 "What's the situation with the neighboring states around us right now? Do they have it?" Panayotovich:

"I'm not familiar with the other states around us." "Have... Well, have you done any..."

"I'm concerned with Illinois."

"Have you done any research to know whether Indiana, Missouri, Iowa has plant closing legislation on the books?"

"No. I think it's more concern we worry about Illinois."

"How about in the country? Do we have any statistics on who or who doesn't have plant closing or industrial hostage legislation on the books?"

"I imagine... plant closing legislation. I imagine there is a study, but to me, again, I am worried just about Illinois."

"In other words, you don't know."

"In other words, I don't know."

"He... okay, we could be setting land... we could be blazing trails here and setting landmark legislation in Illinois with this Bill?"

"Yes, this would be a great thing to do."

"Okay. In Section 2, there are some requirements of the employer with regards to... well, let's talk about having to open up the books, you know. What does that mean? What do we have to do when we open up the books?"

"Yeah, the way the Bill reads is they should provide relevant information to employees, the union."

"Doesn't that mean opening up the books?"

"What it means is what we are trying to do is open up the books for DCCA and the Governor to be able to do their job to find out possibly if we can save that plant."

"And the employees and everybody else?" 101  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Yes, and their officials, yes."

"How about trade secrets?" May 20, 1987

"I believe there is a provision guarding trade secrets. Section B."

"Well, I... we interpret it as meaning that it would have to be disclosed. Don't tell anybody else, but it would have to be disclosed."

"He... we interpret..."

"On page 3, we talk about a mutually satisfactory alternative to plant closings. What does this mean?"

"Well, our feeling would be keeping the plant opening... mutually satisfactory to both."

"So, if the employees don't agree to keeping it open, I mean, do we close it or if they don't agree to close it, do we keep it open or what does that mean? How do we then decide mutually?"

"Well, what we are looking for is a possibility of DCCA being able to come in and work out some agreements and work with both the labor and business community to try to keep the plant open. What we want to do is work out an agreement with DCCA and the Governor. What this Bill does is it's actually letting the Governor and DCCA do their job a little more efficiently."

"They already do this."

"Questionable."

"I am told they do. What is DCCA's position on this Bill?"

"I don't know. You can ask the Gentleman behind you, I think."

"Okay. Well, to the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed."

"Call it what you want. Call it plant closing legislation, which we see up on the board, or as the 102  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 business community calls it, industrial hostage Bill. It's appropriate, I think, the industrial hostage Bill. It tells an employer that he or she cannot close or relocate without the employees permission. It tells an employer that because you cannot afford to stay open Illinois won't necessarily let you close. This says, 'Let's see what the employees think. Are you really broke, Mr. Employer or Ms. Employer? What's in your books, you employer? Open them up, trade secrets included. He're going to disclose those. This Bill robs an employer of his or her entrepreneurial discretion. You know, and this may sound like a real conservative strike, but it really strikes at the heart of free enterprise. If you can't even shut down, what else can they take from you in the State of Illinois? Representative Panayotovich is very sensitive to plant closing in his district. I'm going to tell you, so am I. My district is a neighboring district. I'm in the same SDA as he does... is. We have seen more plant closings outside of Chicago than anywhere else in this state, but that's because we are reliant of smoke stack industries in this state and in our particular districts. That's a problem, but you can't hold every Illinois employer hostage because you are reliant on smoke stack industries. What we need to do is encourage new industries to come in here and what you are doing with this Bill is sending the death knell to doing business in the State of Illinois. You are going to actually discourage those new industries from coming in here to replace those that need to be replaced. You know, this is supposed to be an employee Bill, and I suppose, if you look at it in a vacuum, it's an employee Bill. It addresses the employee. In the real world, that's not what we live in. We live in... we live not on theory, but we live in the practical way. I don't think anybody here 103  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 really believes that because we enact plant closing legislation that we are going to prevent plants from closing in the State of Illinois. I suggest to you that we don't need to blaze new trails in Illinois. Our unemployment figures are going up. The nation's are going down. I submit to you, enough's enough. Vote 'no on this Bill."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. LeFlore."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill. I feel it's no more than right to give the employees of any company notice of plant closure. I rise in support of this Bill. I feel, over the years, we have had hundreds of companies in the State of Illinois who have closed their doors and given no prior notice to their employees. I feel the employees are being treated wrong. I feel it is about high time that we inform them that they are about to lose their incomes where they depend on in supporting their family each and every day. We have employees of many of these companies that have closed their doors in the State of Illinois who have families, who have children in schools. When you close... when a person... when the plants close, that means that bread is taken from the tables and I feel that DCCA and the Governor should go on record and investigating any company that is about... who is about to close their doors. So, therefore, I would like to seek as many green votes on this Bill as possible. Thank you."

"Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Barger."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think when we consider labor legislation or legislation that comes out of the Labor and Commerce Committee that we have to figure that there are actually three power groups involved. One is the employers, the people who supply the money and the plant 104  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 and supply the work for the workers to do. The second is labor and that we understand is the people who perform the work and that is their share of the agreement. The third power group is government and if government takes a position on the side of either of the two primary parties, they throw the whole balance of the employer/employee relationship out of balance. Now, when a company is established, a company of business, there is money necessary. There is the necessity for bringing the work in and there is the labor that's necessary. And when the time comes that the income to the company drops off, the employer is the one who has to make up the salary SO that he can pay wages during hard times. Sometimes, he even has to borrow money in order to carry his employees. And then along comes a time when we pass legislation like this and the employer says to himself or to the other members of his board of directors, *We can no longer take the liability upon ourselves of borrowing money to cover a payroll through what might be an extended period of time. We will have to lay employees off as the work falls because we would be allowed to lay off individual employees. Never in any of this labor/employer relationship have I heard a suggestion that when a time comes when a company is stressed financially that perhaps the laborers would contribute some money towards the cost of operating the company. In all fairness, if you want to protect your jobs, really, you should... you should contribute something towards helping to keep the company open and if you insist on not contributing to solving the problem, you are contributing to making the problem. The problem with labor today in its relationship with the employers is that they want everything guaranteed for them. They want the employer to provide them wages when there is a shortage of 105  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 work and now they want the employer to know 90 to 180 days before he has run out of money that he is going to run out of money. He has no... no alternative when the money is gone but to close down and this kind of legislation is going to make it imperative for many businesses that are in shaky condition to take the easy way out and either give the equipment to the employees and walk out or just abandon the whole thing to the government. Neither one of them can do the job that management is required to do, but neither one of them is willing to let management do their own job in the way that they see fit. This is a bad piece of legislation. It is bad for the workers. It is bad for the employers. It is bad for the State of Illinois as a whole and I think that the opportunity that actually it is time that we consider employers and their position in labor problems and let's try to be helpful rather than to put stumbling blocks in the way of the employers of the State of Illinois. Thank you."

"Representative 3reslin in the Chair."

"The Gentleman from Kane, Representative Kirkland, on the question. Representative Kirkland. Representative Kirkland."

"Alright, thank you. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have problems with this Bill and will vote against it. One of the reasons our national economy is... and the private sector is so vigorous is because of the freedom of movement that is allowed for businesses to move around the country to adjust to various economic factors to do with their individual industries. And I just think this sets up too much of a barrier that, as another Representative said, would cause businesses to pause before coming to this state. I think the collective bargaining process, whether in Illinois or in any other part of the country, is a very 106  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day adequate process to address May 20, 1987 these kinds of issues. I guess I'd further add that there's just a myriad, a myriad of reasons why businesses at any one time or another move from one part of this country to another and we try in many, many ways to make the Illinois economy more attractive to businesses that we'd like to attract here and more attractive to businesses that we would like to keep here. I think this legislation would make the state less attractive and if enacted here and/or in other states, would make our national economy much less dynamic and successful. So, for that reason, I urge a vote against the legislation... against the Bill. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Stange, on the question. Representative Stange."

"Thank you. Thank you, Madam Speaker. If the State of Illinois is trying to attract new business from other states, the State of Illinois is trying to attract new business from other countries that come here, they are going to look at this Bill and it's going to be... it's going to be very embarrassing for the State of Illinois to get these companies here. In my district, in other districts, companies have called me and they 100 percent oppose this Bill. I urge your 'no' vote on this Bill."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Parcells."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I, too, rise in opposition to this Bill. It's just one more way to hamstring business in the State of Illinois. How can requiring an employer to stay open possibly help? The employer is in the business to make money too. He's not closing to be mean. He wants to make a living. He's obviously figured out he can't make money. The provisions of this Bill are already covered by DCCA. The Sponsor cannot tell us what other state has it, so once again, Illinois becomes the experimental guinea pig 107  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 in this field, we'll discourage new business from coming in. It's a bad Bill and I seek your 'no' vote."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Pederson."

"Yes, Representative Peterson, Ms... Madam Speaker."

"Excuse me, Representative Peterson."

"Thank you. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this... we know that most employers don't want to go out of business. They're trying to stay alive. And when you require that they give 90 day notice of their... a plant closing, you are really making it harder for them to stay alive. Advance notice can lead to loss of customers, inability to get credit and the departure of key employees. These tend to hasten the business collapse with consequently employment loss. The Bill Sponsors here are really saying, "Well, I think this would help employees. It might hurt the employer a little bit, but let's give it a shot.' What we need in Illinois is to make it a better place to do business. Like, you know, lower taxes, less obstructionism, that kind of thing. So, I would urge a 'no' vote on this bad piece of legislation."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Parke."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, last year Representative Panayotovich invited me to go to a meeting that he held in his district in the Hegewisch area and I had the opportunity, first hand, to listen to what it meant to a community, to individual employees, to lose the company in which they were employed for SO many years. And I can understand Representative Panayotovich's initiative with this Bill because it was truly a tragedy in his district what happened. But I think we have to look beyond that particular instance. I think we have to look at what we will do to employees throughout 108  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 the State of Illinois if we pass this kind of legislation. I think the intent of what Representative Panayotovich wants to do is worthwhile; however, I believe this legislation has gone too far. I believe it will be counterproductive to the employees of Illinois because it truly will send a negative voice to the business community around the United States who may be looking to relocate in Illinois, to hire a skilled work force and to put more people back to work. I think there are parts of Representative Panayotovich's Bill that are good and business should take a hard look at what some of these things are and work with Representative Panayotovich to come up with a compromise that we all can live with. Unfortunately, I have to vote 'no' on this. I think every Member of the General Assembly should vote 'no' on this, but we should work and encourage Representative Panayotovich to continue his efforts to try and come up with a solution and a compromise that will help both business and employees of Illinois."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Sutker."

"Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise to support this Bill. I notice the Bill has taken on a texture of being employer versus employee and that's unfortunate because I'm sure Representative Panayotovich was not dealing with that alone. This Bill encompasses more than just an employer and employee relationship. It relates to the community in which the employer operates. An employer should be as obligated to give notice to his employee as he is obligated to give notice to his landlord. This Bill would only enforce cooperation, a cooperation that should be there without the necessity of the Bill, but unfortunately, employers are choosing to sneak away in the 109  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 night. having given notice to the landlord, but failed to give notice to their community or to their employees. This Bill transcends the employer/employee relationship and, Ladies and Gentlemen, I urge an 'aye" vote."

"The Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Saltsman."

"Move the previous question.

"The Gentleman moves the previous question. The question is, Shall the main question be put? All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the main question is put. Representative Panayotovich, to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. In listening to all the discussion that's went on here, let's take this back a little bit. This Bill has been presented here for a few years. He heard the word compromise from Representative... previous Representative who spoke about compromise. This Bill, at one time, had 180 days. The business community was all upset about 180 days. He brought it down to 90 days. The business community was also worried about the employer contribution to community assistance programs. He pulled that out of the Bill. We brought the Bill to 50 employees. We are compromising. We are working together. He also talk about Represent... another Representative mentioned about being in the district. Let me take you back to the district and let me take you back to your district. 3000 people at Wisconsin Steel were given checks on a Friday evening, told that the plant is closing, they are through. Not only do they not have a job that they cannot put food on the table, the checks were bad, the benefits were gone. Now, you go back to your district and tell your people that you don't want that 90 day notification. And that's all it's saying, 110  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 we want a notification. There's no penalty for the plant to close. We are not penalizing you to close your plant. We're asking for notification and we're asking for consultation. He want to give the Governor, we want to give DCCA the opportunity to prevent this plant closing and with this notification, we can do that. He had the hearings in the district, as Representative Parke said, and after that hearing, he should have took it a step further. We went out and we had lunch with the Members that were there and the business community and we talked about it and they all said, in one way or another, that it is wrong to take somebody and close the plant on them. This could be the biggest change in... it should be the biggest change in somebody's life that they no longer have a job, they no longer have a salary and you mean to tell me an employer can't give somebody 90 days to let them try to save their lifestyle? We have approximately eight other states that have this type of legislation. Massachusetts and Connecticut have it and just the other day, the U. S. Senate Labor Committee, by a vote of 11 to 5 passed out a plant closing Bill with six months notice. That's 180. We're asking for 90. This is people. This is people that need to provide and I ask for your 'aye' votes."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 810 pass?" All those in favor vote 'aye, all those opposed vote 'no". Voting is open. Representative... The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Piel, one minute to explain your vote. Representative Piel. Mr. Electrician, would you turn on Representative Piel's switch?"

"Well, maybe my minute will be over by the time he turns it on."

"I'll start you over, Sir."

"Just a... just a couple of comments, Madam Speaker. 111  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 During the debate, the Sponsor was asked if he knew how many states. He said not to the best of his knowledge and then during the closing, he mentions eight. It was too bad. I don't know if there was some certain pressure on the Sponsor of the Bill where, initially, I guess it was 15 employees. Now, it's 50 employees. I guess certain businesses throughout the state would be affected if it was just 15 employees. But, you know, I think you should think long and hard about this situation and the effects it's going to have on the state if you do put this type of legislation in. I'd ask for a 'no' vote and I would ask also. Madam Speaker... Madam Speaker, I would ask... Madam Speaker, I would ask for a verification should this receive the required number."

"Very good. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 65 voting 'aye', 50 voting 'no' and none voting 'present' and Representative Piel has asked for a verification of the affirmative roll. Representative... Representative Panayotovich has asked for a Poll of the Absentees. Poll the absentees, Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of those not voting. Flinn and McGann. No further."

"For what reason do you seek recognition, Representative Piel."

"Just to save time, we are not going to allow any leave. We'll get this over with real quickly and we'll go on to the next Bill."

"The Gentleman has indicated that he is not going to allow... give permission for leave on this verification, Ladies and Gentlemen, so please be in your seats. We'll operate under Hannahan's Rules. All Members be in your seats. Mr. Clerk, poll the affirmative." 112  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"Berrios. Bowman. Braun. Breslin. Brunsvold. Bugielski. Capparelli. Christensen. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. Daley. Davis. DeJaegher. DeLeo. Dunn. Farley. Flowers. Giglio. Giorgi. Granberg. Greiman. Hannig. Hartke. Homer. Huff. Jones. Keane. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. LeFlore. Leverenz. Levin. Martinez. Matijevich. Mautino. McNamara. McPike. Morrow. Mulcahey. Novak. O'Connell. Panayotovich. Phelps. Preston. Rea. Rice. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Steczo. Stern. Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. White. Williams. Wolf. Anthony Young. Hyvetter Young. And Mr. Speaker."

"Any questions of the affirmative?"

"Representative Keane."

"Representative Jim Keane. Jim Keane. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Giglio."

"Representative Giglio is in the chamber."

"Representative Flinn."

"Representative Flinn. Monroe Flinn. Is the Gentleman in the chamber. The Gentleman is not recorded as voting, Sir."

"Okay, Van Duyne."

"Representative Van Duyne is in his chair."

"McNamara."

"Representative McNamara is in the chamber. Representative Keane has returned to the chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting 'aye'."

"Representative Satterthwaite."

"Representative Satterthwaite. Helen Satterthwaite. Is the Lady in the chamber? She is not. Remove her from the Roll Call." 113  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Representative Cullerton."

Piel: Speaker "Representative Cullerton. May 20, 1987 Representative John Cullerton. The Gentleman is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call." "Representative McPike."

"Representative McPike. Representative Cullerton has returned to the chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting 'aye. Representative McPike is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call. Representative O'Connell, for what reason do you seek recognition?"

"Leave to be verified."

"Representative O'Connell asks leave to be verified. Representative Piel."

"We answered that at the beginning, no. Representative Greiman."

"Representative O'Connell, Representative Piel denies your request for leave to be verified. Representative Piel, do you have any further questions of the affirmative?"

"Representative Greiman."

Speaker Breslin: "Representative Greiman. Representative Alan Greiman. The Gentleman... Representative Greiman has returned to the chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting "aye."

"Representative Levin."

"Representative Levin. Ellis Levin. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Phelps. I see him. Representative Giorgi."

"Representative Giorgi is in the chamber."

"Representative Brunsvold.”

"Representative Brunsvold is in the chamber." 114  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 50th Legislative Day

"Representative Hartke."

"Representative Hartke is in his chair."

"Representative Daley."

"Representative Daley is in the chamber."

"Representative DeLeo."

"Representative DeLeo. Representative McPike has returned to the chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting 'aye. Representative Hyvetter Younge asks leave to be verified. Does the Lady have leave, Mr. Piel?"

"No."

"Representative Younge, Representative Hyvetter Younge, Representative Piel denies your leave to be verified. Do you have any further questions of the affirmative?"

"I asked Representative DeLeo."

"Representative DeLeo is in the chamber."

"Representative Huff."

"Representative Huff is right up here on the podium."

"Representative Dunn."

"Representative John Dunn. Representative John Dunn. The Gentleman is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call. Representative McGann, for what reason do you rise?"

"Madam Speaker, how am I recorded?"

"You are not recorded as voting, Sir."

"Hould you kindly vote me 'aye'?"

"Record Representative McGann as voting 'aye." "Representative Terzich."

"Representative Terzich. Representative Dunn has returned to the chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting 'aye. Representative Hicks, for what reason do you rise? Representative Hicks wishes to change his vote from 115  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 'no' to 'aye'. Ellis Levin has returned to the chamber. Add him to the Roll Call. Any further questions?"

"I only had one more and that was Representative Breslin, so I won't ask that. No further."

"On this question, there are 66 voting 'aye, 49 voting 'no' and none voting 'present', and this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Braun in the Chair."

"House Bill 2031, Representative Farley. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 2031, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to public employees. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Farley."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 2031 is strictly a shell or vehicle Bill that we would like to pass over to the Senate. We have had a couple of meetings on some subject matter. We are going to have another one next Hednesday and I would appreciate at this time just passing this Bill out."

"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 2031, and on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 2031 pass?" All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. This is final action. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 95 voting 'aye', 19 voting 'no', and House Bill 2031, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 2084, Mr... Representative Peterson. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 2084, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of the Bill." 116  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 50th Legislative Day

"Representative Peterson."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I request leave to bring back House Bill 2084 to Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment."

"Representative Dunn."

"I object."

"Gentleman has objected. For what reason does Representative Van Duyne rise?"

"Thank you, thank you, Madam Speaker. I would just like to ask Representative Dunn to remove his objection. This is... Representative Peterson and I think this is very necessary for the townships. We inadvertently left this out of the Bill and it defies logic to have people out working for the township on workfare and not authorize the townships to cover them under workmen's compensation. It could be a disaster if somebody would get hurt and sue the township. So, I would please ask him to remove his objection."

"Representative Peterson."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Did the Representative remove his objection?"

"No, Sir. You will have to move to have the Bill returned. It requires 60 votes."

"Okay, I move... I so move, Madam Speaker."

"The Gentleman has moved that the Bill be returned to the Order of Second Reading for purposes of an Amendment. All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted? On this question, there are 115 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'no'. The Motion carries. The Bill will be returned to the Order of Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 2084, this Bill has been read a second time previously. Floor Amendment #2, offered by 117  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 Representative Peterson."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Lake, Representative Peterson, on Amendment 2."

"Withdraw Amendment 2. Madam Speaker."

"Amendment 2 is withdrawn. Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading."

"Madam Speaker, there is... Amendment 3 has been filed, if the Clerk please check the records."

"Floor Amendment #..."

"Alright... Mr. Clerk, the Bill will be returned to the Order of Second Reading for purposes of an Amendment. Now, read the Bill."

"Floor Amendment 3, offered by Representative Peterson."

"Gentleman from Lake, on Amendment #3."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. It's a very clear and concise Amendment which does become the Bill. It provides that the township board of trustees may expend monies for workers' compensation coverage for individuals who qualify for township general assistance and who participate in a job training or work program. I ask for your favorable vote on this Amendment."

"The Gentleman has moved the adoption of Amendment 3 and on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment 3 be adopted?'... oh, the Gentleman from Will, Representative Regan."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Just one quick question. Does that then shift the financial obligation from the county to the township? Is that what we are doing?"

"No, has nothing to do with the county."

"Well, don't the workfare people... aren't they coming out of the county and aren't they covered by..." 118  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987

"No, this is strictly workfare people under the auspices of general assistance run by the township."

"Thank you."

"Is there further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment 3 be adopted?' All in favor say 'aye', opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"

Clerk O'Brien "No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Peterson."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I said before, the Amendment becomes the Bill and I ask for your favorable vote on House Bill 2084 as amended."

"Representative Peterson, you move... you so move."

"Immediate consideration."

"Right. Gentleman has move for immediate consideration of this Bill on the Order of Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

Clerk O'Brien "House Bill 2084, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Gentleman from Lake on House Bill 2084."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Once again, I ask for your favorable vote on House Bill 2084."

"As soon as the Clerk has had a chance to change the board. The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 2084, and on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 2084 pass?' All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? On this question, there are 116 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', and House Bill 2084, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared 119  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 passed. House Bill 2493, Representative Curran. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

Clerk O'Brien "House Bill 2493, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act creating the Illinois Department of Veterans' Affairs. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 2493 as amended requires the Department of Veterans' Affairs to report to the General Assembly twice a year regarding their staffing ratios in direct care at veterans' homes. This simply brings us up to... closer to compliance with the U. S. Veterans' Administration. I ask for a favorable vote."

"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill... Representative Curran, have you concluded your remarks? That's what I thought. House... the Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 2493, and on that, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Hallock."

"The Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"I think this is a laudable concept, but I am concerned about the impact fiscally. Will this require the Department to hire more people or how will this be implemented?"

"He do not believe there will be any cost for this, Representative. It requires the Department to report to us to give us an idea of how far off we are. He think we're pretty far off, but we'd like to know."

"So this Bill, as it sits today, does not require them to employ more people? It just requires them to make a study to find out whether they have enough people?"

"They are to report to us twice a year regarding their patient... staff to patient ratio in direct care 120  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 facilities. That would be Quincy and Manteno, I believe."

"And then once we have received that report, are there further steps to be followed?"

"At that point, we would be enlightened."

"Well, we surely could use that enlightenment on a constant basis. Are there suggested staff ratios that you would use as your criteria for ascertaining whether or not we are in fact over or understaffed?"

"The U. S. Veterans' Administration has a ratio of 2.0 to 1, so that would be the ratio that we would be comparing ourselves against, but if we don't... but this particular Bill simply requires the Department to tell us twice a year how close we are to that."

"Then I assume it's probably your intention pursuant to that study if we are understaffed to put in a Bill to increase the staff?"

"Actually, this Bill came from Representative Pangle. Since he is no longer here, I am carrying it for him. His wife, who is a nurse, is very familiar with a set of circumstances in and around Manteno and I think it was her wisdom in light of that specific situation that was the genesis of this legislation."

"Thank you."

"Is there further discussion? There being none, the Gentleman from Sangamon to close."

"Please vote for this good Bill."

"The Gentleman from Adams, Representative Mays, for what reason do you rise?"

"I just have a question of the Sponsor. I don't know if it's appropriate at this point. I know you want to move on, but, Representative, is this..."

"Representative..."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker... is..." 121  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"Well, I don't mind, but, Representative, your light didn't go on until after the Gentleman had closed and you were on the telephone so for Representative McCracken's future edification, I am more than fair to your side of the aisle. Proceed, Representative Mays."

"Representative, is this... this was Chuck Pangle's Bill, is that not correct, and at the time this was going through Committee, Representative Pangle and the Department entered into some negotiations on the staffing portion of this Bill and is the Amendment that is on this Bill the Department's Amendment?"

"Jeff, I do not know anything about those... the conversation that Representative Pangle had with the Department. I'm sorry. I just don't know the answer to that."

"Well, then, would you be..."

"I'm told by... excuse me. I'm told by staff that it is. I don't know that independently, but staff tells me that that is the case."

"Okay, well, on that basis then, I rise in support of the Bill. I would like to make sure at some point when it's over in the Senate that the Department's concerns were addressed and if I can have that assurance, I think we can move right along. I think this Amendment is the Department's Amendment."

"It seems to me that what happened with the Amendment is that it changed from reporting four times a year to reporting two times a year. The Department was in favor of reporting only twice a year."

"And the Department also has some concerns, I believe, with some specific staffing requirements that were in the original Bill, that I think the Amendment took care of also." 122  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Curran: "Staff tells me that that is the case, that you are correct."

"Well, okay. There are some questions on the Bill. At this point, though, I believe this Bill has been amended to address some of the major concerns of the Department, and with the Sponsor's assurance that the Department's considerations will be fully addressed, if not already, I will rise in support of the Bill."

"There being no further discussion, and Representative Curran having already closed, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 2493 pass?' All in favor vote 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Representative Davis, your light is on. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Curran? Representative Curran, your light... do you seek recognition at this time? Pardon? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 69 voting 'aye', 41 voting 'no'. House Bill 2493, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of Labor, Special Order of Labor, House Bills Second Reading, appeared House Bill 1034, Representative Saltsman. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill. Sorry, 1035. 1035."

"House Bill 1035, a Bill for an Act to amend the Wages of Employees on Public Works Act. This Bill has been read a Second Time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Regan."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Will, Representative Regan, on Amendment #1."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. 123  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 Amendment 1 addresses some confusion in the language of the Illinois Wage Payment and Collection Act. In the area of vacation pay, the confusion in the language has brought about lawsuits and this is to clarify that. If a person has a contract with an employer and the employer says that if you work here one year you get one week of vacation, if you work here two years you get two weeks of vacation. This simply says that in order to get two full weeks of vacation, you must work two full years. What has been happening in the past is, if a person leaves his employer after a year and a half, they would give them half of that vacation pay that he didn't actually earn. I move for an 'aye vote, please."

"The Gentleman has moved the passage of Amendment 1... or the adoption of Amendment 1. On that, the Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Saltsman."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Was this Amendment already defeated in Committee as part of a Bill?"

"No. We've never voted on this. This is one of those things with the time mix-up and the delay, even though I gave my time to some of your side's people to come in front of me. it never reached the floor of the Committee for a vote."

"Yes. Madam Speaker, on the Amendment. The courts have already ruled on this case and it ruled in favor of the employee, that he had previously worked for his vacation. and it was for previous time earned, and the courts have already ruled on this and this is why this Amendment should be defeated and I encourage everyone on this side of the aisle to vote 'no'."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Will to 124  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day close. Representative Regan." May 20, 1987

"I just think that it clarifies. It will cease any further lawsuits, and if there is an agreement by the employee and the employer that you work a certain length of time to deserve certain benefits. I think it's only a fair Bill and it will send a message that we certainly want to send to business that we're fair, and labor should consider it fair and I would ask for an 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman has moved the adoption of Amendment 1. All in favor say 'aye', opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'nos' have it, and the Amendment is lost. Further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third... Representative Saltsman... Third Reading. On the Order of House Bills, Special Order Conveyances. appears House Bill 932, Representative Richmond. Representative Richmond? Out of the record. House Bill 2322, Representative McAuliffe. Representative McAuliffe? Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 2322, a Bill for an Act to release easements and restore access rights to certain described lands in the State of Illinois. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Motions filed?"

"There are no Motions filed."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representative McAuliffe."

"The Gentleman from Cook on Amendment 1. Representative Giglio in the Chair."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative McAuliffe."

"Floor Amendment #1 is a technical Amendment which 125  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day spells out some of the extra parcels of land that the Department... additional parcels of land that the Department wants to include in the Bill."

"The Gentleman asks for the adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill 2322. Any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor signify by saying 'aye', those opposed 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. Amendment #1 is adopted. Further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. House Bill 1781, Representative Van Duyne. Representative Van Duyne in the chamber? Representative Van Duyne? Representative Churchill. Is Representative Churchill in the Chamber? House Bill 2810. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 2810, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the power of the Capitol Development Board. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The... Representative Churchill, the Gentleman from Lake."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. At this time I would move to table Amendment #4."

"This Bill... The Gentleman asks leave to return House Bill 2810 to the Order of Second Reading. Does he have leave? Leave is granted. The Bill is now on Second Reading. Representative Churchill."

"Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Now I would move to table Amendment #4."

"The Gentleman moves to table Amendment #4 to House Bill 2810. Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted. Table Amendment... Amendment #4 is tabled. Further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Van Duyne. Are 126  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 you seeking recognition, Sir?"

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was just outside the door talking to one of the Gentlemen and you went by 1781. Would you please go back to it?"

"One moment. Sir. Representative Churchill, could you take this out of the record for a moment, Sir? Okay. Okay, on the Third... on that Order of Business we skipped over House Bill 1781. On page 33 of the Calendar, House Bill 1781, Representative Van Duyne, on Conveyances. The Gentleman from Hill, Representative Van Duyne. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1781, a Bill for an Act directing the Department of Conservation to convey certain real property. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Will, Representative Van Duyne."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's a very simple Bill. It just allows the Department of Conservation to lease. The Bill has been amended from selling it to them for a dollar to leasing it to the Joliet Port Authority for one dollar for a long term lease, which will be figured out by the Department of Conservation. I move for passage of House Bill 1781."

"On that question, the Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Hallock."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Was there an appraisal attached to this property?"

"No, Representative Hallock. The property is not going to be conveyed to them. All they are going to do is lease it from them. So there is no... there is no assessment of the property necessary."

"We're talking here, basically, about a very small 127  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day amount of property. in this because May 20, 1987 It said 66 feet by 1000 feet?"

"Right. And then there's another island alongside the waterway there that... and all this land has been abandoned. Truly, I question the Port Authority's interest it... all it does is mean more upkeep. Heretofore, the Conservation Department has never even taken care of it. It's all grown up in scrub trees and whatever, and they want to clean this land off so that the people in the City of Joliet can use it on two special occasions, when they have their Waterway Days that they have along the canal and just that, but there's no assessment necessary in that there is no title transfer at all."

"Thank you."

"FU "Further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz."

"Hill the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Could you explain to us how they are going to use the land?"

"Yes, Hallock. Representative, I just did to Representative They are going to use it for people to go there and sit and drink pop or beer or ice cream cones and that kind of stuff when Joliet has it's Waterway Days and other functions that they have at the Bicentennial Park. In other words, they are going to use it for, like, a picnic area for our people."

"Is it then adjacent to other property currently being used for that kind of purpose?" "Beg your pardon?" Van Duyne: Leverenz: that is "Is it adjacent to other property that is being used for the same purpose?"

"Yes. Yes, it's right contiguous to the Bicentennial 128  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 50th Legislative Day Park in Joliet."

"They're not going to put any permanent structures on it or anything of that nature?"

"No."

"Thank you."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Will, Representative Van Duyne, to close."

"Very simply put, I ask everyones' support for this. The Joliet Port Authority wants to clean up this land and make it suitable for picnicking, and doubly important, too, is the fact that the Conservation Department keeps it up not at all, so it's going to be a productive thing."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1781 pass?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye", those opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 116 voting 'yes', none voting 'no", none voting 'present'. House Bill 1781, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. The Gentleman asks leave to hear House Bill 2810 return to Third Reading. Representative Churchill. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 2810, on the Order of Third Reading, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the powers of the Capitol Development Board. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Churchill."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The reason that Amendment #4 was withdrawn was SO that we could put this Bill back in the shape that it is just a shell Bill, and that is all it is at this point, is a shell Bill. We're working on an agreement for the Capitol Development Board which will eventually be placed 129  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 on this in the Senate, so I'd ask for a positive vote on this Bill."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 2810 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye", those opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 115 voting 'yes', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. House Bill 2810, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. May I remind the Body that at 2:00 we are changing the votes for the Consent Calendar. So those of you that want to change your votes for the Consent Calendar at 2:00, you have another approximately 10 minutes to come to the Clerk's well here. Turn to the Order of Second Reading, Public Health, on page 20 of the Calendar, appears House Bill 2682, Representative Pullen. Mr. Clerk, has the fiscal note been filed? Clerk, read the Bill as amended."

"House Bill 2682, a Bill for an Act in relationship to Hemophilia Advisory Committee. It has been read a second time previously. Amendments #1 and 7 were adopted previously."

"Any Motions filed?"

"There's no Motions filed."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"No further Floor Amendments."

"Has the fiscal note been filed?"

"I have... The fiscal note has been filed on House Bill 2682 as amended."

"Fiscal note's been filed. No further Amendments. Third Reading. Representative Homer for a Motion. The Gentleman from Fulton."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Rule 5(c) of this House requires 130  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 the Clerk to print each Bill and place it on the desk of the Members as soon as it's printed. We have before us now pending Senate Bill 1085, which is a revisory Bill, quite lengthly in nature. It's come over from the Senate, and I would, at this time, move to suspend Rule 5(c) so that it will be unnecessary for the Clerk to put the Bill on each Member's desk."

"The Gentleman asks leave to suspend House Rules 7(c), 5(c). The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Hallock."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. A question of the Sponsor?"

"A question of the Sponsor?"

"A question of the Sponsor?"

"Mr. Homer?"

"In reviewing the digest, it clearly appears that it amends numerous Chapters and it may, in fact, be a technical Bill. Could you speak to the Bill itself and tell us what it is and what it does?"

"It's the... it's the Annual Revisory Bills. It's 226 pages that have come from the Legislative Reference Bureau that's... we call the Revisory Bill. I'm a Member... I was asked to do this because I'm a Member of the LRB Committee. Representative Tuerk is the Chairman, and, of course, he's incapacitated, so I was asked to make the Amendment... make the Motion. But I can't tell you what it does, no."

"I think we'll probably join in that request. Could you hold it for a second, while we have a chance to just review the Bill."

"Sure. Sure. I understood it had been cleared through Republican leadership earlier. I think Mr. O'Brien had talked to us... your leaders and they approved the Motion, 131  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 50th Legislative Day but I would be happy to take it out of the record if you need time to verify that."

"Yes. I appreciate your intention to try to save the... save some trees from the fall of the ax, and some paper herein, but let us look at it first. Thank you."

"Sure. Okay."

"Laid out on the Order of Business for today, 2:00 we're going to Local School Districts at page 33... 33, Second Reading, Local School District, House Bills on Second Reading, appears House Bill 1177, Representative Huff. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1177, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to revise the Public School System in the City of Chicago. Second Reading of the Bill. There are no Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representatives McAuliffe and McCracken."

"Representative McAuliffe on Amendment #1."

"I defer to Representative Kirkland on that Amendment."

"Representative Kirkland on Amendment #1 to House Bill 7... 1177.

"Yes, I'll handle the Amendment. Amendment #1 amends the School Code and the Election Code. Creates 20 school districts in Chicago and abolishes the School Finance Authority. Vests all taxing, bonding and budgetary power to the... in the City Council."

"Any discussion on the Amendment? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in opposition to Amendment #1 to House Bill 1177 primarily because, as I perceive it, it is somewhat hostile 132  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day and also somewhat capricious May 20, 1987 to the intent of the Bill. House Bill 1177 seeks only to create three local school districts on a pilot basis. This Amendment would decentralize the whole school system in a... as I stated, in a capricious way that would have a devastating and pernicious effect. While the Bill... the Amendment may be germane to the Bill, it is not germane to the intent of the Bill; and therefore, I would ask that it be defeated."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Hallock."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Hembers of the House. I rise in support of the Amendment. Clearly, all of us in the General Assembly want to have the best schools in the State, and I think most of us try to resolve those issues on a local basis. Unfortunately, because of the finance situation in the Chicago School District, we have to deal with that one here as well. The Chicago School System, unfortunately, has many, many problems and we're called on time and time again each Session to try to help them address those issues. Things aren't working there too well, and I believe that this Amendment, offered by Representative McAuliffe, would make great strides in trying to improve that system and I urge this be... I urge it be adopted."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Young."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Does this Bill have any effect on the Chicago Board of Education?"

"Well, sure it has an effect on the Chicago Board of Education."

"Well, what does it do to them, to the Board?" 133  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE McAuliffe: "It creates 20 school districts. districts." May 20, 1987

Separate school Young: "Okay. And how will those school districts relate to the Board of Education, or will they?"

"How would they relate to the Board of Education?"

"Yes."

"Well, I hope they related well to them."

"Will there be a board of education if this Amendment was adopted and passed?"

"Yes."

"And what would the makeup of that Board be? How would the Board be made up? Would it be elected? Hould it be appointed? Would it be the same Board that exists now?"

"Each of the 20 districts would have their own elected board."

"And how many... how large would those boards be?"

"The overall board would remain the way it is now, appointed by the Mayor of Chicago, with the advice and consent of the City Council."

"Okay. To the Amendment, Mr. Speaker. Our analyst tells me that this Amendment, first of all, would terminate the existence of the Chicago Board of Education. It would create over 20 separate school districts with individually elected boards. Some of us recognize the problem with the school system. Representative Huff has an Amendment to follow that would be a small change in the present structure and would not be such a drastic change as to create 20 separate school districts in Chicago. I don't think this Amendment was drafted with the consent of the Sponsor of the Bill. It certainly isn't what the Chicago Board of Education wants, and I urge it's defeat."

"Further discussion. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman." 134  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Thank you.

Bowman: May 20, 1987 One question of the Sponsor, if you please?" "Proceed." "Representative McAuliffe, can we assume that if Chicago is broken up into 20 separate school districts, that each one will be entitled to a distribution or share of the resource equalizer formula allocation?"

"It would go to the main board, to the Board Education." of

"Wait a minute. I thought you were dispensing with that. You're setting up school boards under the main school board."

"Yes."

"So who has the final authority? The main School Board or the district school boards."

"The main appointed Board would have the authority to distribute funds to the elected school boards in the 20 districts."

"Well, to the Bill... or to the Amendment, then, Mr. Speaker. It seems to me that the Gentleman has got himself into a kind of a Catch 22 situation here, and the proposal that he is making to us is creating a situation where you have all the money going to the main School Board. The main School Board will continue to allocate it as usual. Meanwhile, these local district boards are going to be sitting around twiddling their thumbs having nothing real or substantive to do because the purse controlled from downtown. So it strings are being seems to me that, you know, if you like creating bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake, fine, go ahead and vote for the Amendment. Otherwise, I think a 'no' vote is recommended on this one."

"Fur "Further discussion? Representative Braun." The Lady from Cook,

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to pick up where 135  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 Representative Bowman has left off. We've been fighting for years to have the dollars follow the child in the schools with regard to the distribution of formula allocation monies, and this Amendment would just turn the clock back, and instead of having the dollars follow the child, the dollars would follow first; the first bureaucracy and then the second bureaucracy. And then finally, I guess, eventually, after it's trickled down, if any is left for the children, and for education, then maybe, possibly, they will get to see some benefit from it. I think this is a bad Amendment and I urge its defeat."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative McAuliffe, to close."

"One of the Gentlemen talked about a drastic change. I think the Chicago Board of Education could use a drastic change. And I think that almost any change in the Chicago Board of Education would have to be a change for the better. I move for the adoption of the Amendment."

"The question is, "Shall Amendment 21 to House Bill 1177 pass? All those in favor vote 'aye', those opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 55 voting 'yes', 58 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. The Amendment's defeated. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2 is being offered by Representative Huff."

"Representative Huff on Amendment #2."

"Withdraw Amendment #2, Mr. Speaker."

"Withdraw Amendment #2. Amendment #2 is withdrawn. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3 is being offered by Representative Huff." 136  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"Amendment #3, Representative Huff."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #3 simply adds subdistrict 9 as a semiautonomous school district and makes clarification in the language with reference to syndication, which is a innovative approach for revenue producing without taxing. I move for the adoption of Amendment #3."

"Any discussion on the Amendment? Hearing none, all those in favor signify by saying "aye", those opposed 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. Amendment #3 is adopted. Further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. House Bill 2719, Representative McAuliffe. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 2719, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to establish an elected Board of Education for school districts. Second Reading of the Bill. There are no Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"There are none."

"Third Reading. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huff."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I believe there's a fiscal note filed on that Bill."

"Are you referring to 2719, Representative Huff?"

"Yes."

"There is a fiscal note filed, Sir."

"There is?"

"Yes. Did you... did you want to hear your Bill

"No." on Third Reading?"

"Alright. The time now for changing your vote on the Consent Calendar is now near, and it will be closed. Anybody else would want to change their position on some of 137  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 the Bills that are on the Consent Calendar, please come forward. If not, it will be closed. Hearing none, seeing none. the Clerk will no longer accept any change of votes on the Consent Calendar. Representative Brunsvold?"

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker. I'd like leave of the House to move House Bill 911 to Second Legislative Day for the purpose... excuse me, Second Reading, Second Legislative Day. I have an Amendment."

"The Gentleman asks leave to move House Bill 911 to Second Legislative Day. Does the Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted. The Bill now is on Second Reading, Second Legislative Day. Representative Brunsvold."

"I believe there is an Amendment, Mr. Speaker."

"House Bill 911. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"On page 34 of your Calendar, House Bill 911, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to emergency telephone systems. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions filed?"

"No Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2 is being offered by Representative Brunsvold."

"Representative Brunsvold on Amendment #2 to House Bill 911."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #2 would erase all provisions of the Bill and make it a shell Bill with some wording about a study being done this summer, discussions with the phone company, and I would move for the adoption of Amendment #2."

"The Gentleman asks for the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 911. And on that question, the Lady from Lake, Representative Frederick." 138  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The Bill is exactly as the Sponsor said. It satisfies, now, all the parties, and I would urge adoption."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Hallock."

"No, that's alright."

"He're out of the record. Further discussion? Mr. Brunsvold?"

"I move for the adoption of Amendment #2."

"The Gentleman asks for the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 911. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', those opposed 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. Amendment #2 is adopted. Further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Brunsvold."

"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to... leave of the House to suspend 37(d), and for immediate consideration of House Bill 911."

"Representative Brunsvold."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Bill is on Third Reading. We'll just hold it there."

"That's correct. The Bill will remain on Third Reading."

"Thank you."

"Representative Hallock. Are you seeking recognition, Sir?"

"Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's nice and quiet here, but we have a lot to do yet, probably 600 Bills left on the Calendar. Can you tell us where we're going to go next, and when we're going to go to that Order."

"We're moving right along, Representative 139  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day Hallock. We're going through May 20, 1987 the Calendar right now. to the Order of Special Alright, the Chair now will go Order Call on Children, and Children is broken down into two divisions: He Protection. Children Development and will now go to Child Development. 294, Children And on Representative Currie. On that appears House Bill page 17 of the Calendar. Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 294.... that's page 18 of the Calendar. House Bill 294, a Bill for an Act in relationship to medical care for low-income pregnant women and newborn infants. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Currie."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and Members of the House. House Bill 294 is an effort to help stem the appalling infant mortality statistics that plague the State of Illinois. The Bill would require the Department of Public Health to establish and operate a prenatal and newborn care program to help cover cost of medical services to pregnant women and their babies when those women have incomes below the poverty level. In effect, this Bill would make sure that our Parents Too Soon and other infant mortality reduction initiatives reach all the women in the need of those services. I would be happy to answer your questions and I would appreciate your support for this Bill that, I think, can do a good deal to improve the health and the opportunity of our youngsters to thrive and to grow in the State of Illinois." state who are in

The question is, 'Shall House Bill 294 pass? And on that... on that question, the Gentleman Winnebago, Representative Hallock." from

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Will the Sponsor yield for a question? As I review this, it appears to be another one of those programs which the State might 140  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 want to consider initiating at some point in time, but it also appears to have a tremendous cost impact. Could you speak to that issue, please?"

"Well, Representative, let me tell you first that the Department of Public Health began by opposing this 3ill on the grounds that they already do it. He have evidence suggesting they don't already do it across the State. Not everybody is entitled to these services. The fiscal note that the Department offers is under $80,000.00 a year, under 80,000.00. I don't think this is the kind of expenditure that we can cheerfully say is too much. I think less than $80,000.00 for babies that are born at birth weights, that mean they are not likely subjects of developmental disabilities, expensive hospitalizations, mothers who get prenatal care, and therefore are more likely to produce babies that survive the first year of life, and when they do survive, have an opportunity to thrive. The costs we presently pay for babies that are born at risk of developmental disabilities, high birth weight babies, the costs we now pay for babies that are born at risk of infant death are enormous costs, and our statistics, in respect to both low birth weight babies and infant mortality, are among the worst in the nation. I think we can't afford not to spend less than $80,000.00 in order to see to it that these young, low-income women and their babies have a chance."

"Thank you for that explanation. I guess my question is directed more to the fact that I'm kind of puzzled as to what more this will do, because I'm aware that many hospitals in the State, in order to redress the problem which you have spoken to, and that is a need for great care in those early stages. The need for some good perinatal programs, do this now. So the nature of my question 141  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 really was, what more is this going to do than what's being done right now, because my impression is, and I think my understanding. this is done now in most hospitals throughout the state, or at least in most cities throughout the State they will have at least one hospital which will conduct this sort of activity at the present time. So how does this expand that?"

"First of all, Representative, it means that some women who right now do not find those services available in their communities will have some place to look for them. Secondly, the services in this Bill are not hospital services alone. In fact, when we wait until the low-income pregnant woman, a teenager in particular, when we wait for her to find medical service at the moment of birth, without prenatal care, without adequate nutritional information and guidance, without the kind of diet that will make it likely that baby is born well and strong, that's when we're in trouble. This Bill doesn't say you get the care when you turn up at the emergency room. This Bill says that the Department of Public Health has a responsibility to help you during the course of that pregnancy and to help the baby after birth."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. To the Bill itself. It's my understanding that the State currently does this now in just about every way, shape or form it can be undertaken. Also, I would say that most hospitals around this State work with the State of Illinois to insure that all parents in this category receive the maximum of protection and coverage that they may choose to pursue. I think the problem may be in some situations that, although this is available, many parents don't choose to undertake the time to really find out exactly what can be done to help them throughout all their situations with 142  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day pregnancies. May 20, 1987 I would say to you that anything beyond what's being done right now probably is not cost effective, because this is being done right now. I think this Bill is unnecessary and I urge a 'no' note."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Wojcik."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Hembers of the House. I too rise in opposition and I can also echo the thoughts of the previous speaker. I would like to point out that this truly is in the 1988 budget for the Public Health. It's already being done in some parts of the State. Next year it will be done throughout the whole state. The Bill is entirely unnecessary and there really is no need for it."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Preston."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in support of this Bill. Not only is the Bill necessary, but the program that would come into effect when it passes and becomes law, is the most cost effective thing we can do here in Illinois. Money that... a small amount of money that is today spent on prenatal health care and early childhood infant care is recouped by the decrease in funds that would be necessary to take care of a low-weight baby, a baby that is ill, children that are ill, end up statistically being far more likely to be abused children, abused children perform poorly in school. Children who perform poorly in school end up in the criminal justice system. and much of that can be related back to the lack of prenatal and early infant care that that child has. By investing small dollars, we immediately save large dollars to the State of Illinois that might be necessary to care for a child that ends up being an ill child and requiring far more dollars to care for that child than a few pennies spent in the necessary prenatal and 143  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day early infant care. So this is a very cost and I would ask for your 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman May 20, 1987 efficient Bill from McDonough, Representative Slater."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if the Sponsor would yield for a question?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative Currie, you've indicated that this is going to cost $80,000.00, according to the fiscal note. I hear conversation around the floor that this is not a necessary piece of legislation. Just in a clear and concise manner, tell us for $80,000.00 what we're going to be able to get if this legislation passes."

"I'm sorry. What was the question?"

"What will we get for the $80,000.00 if this legislation passes?"

"What we get is the opportunity to make sure that all the women in the State, who are under the age of 21 and are low-income and are pregnant, have access to these important prenatal, medical, dietary services, and so do their babies. The Department of Public Health, in its fiscal note, for less than $80,000.00 describes about $65,000.00 of those... of the total in terms of well child nurse visits. That is, we get for that money the opportunity for these infants to be visited at least twice during their first six months. That's an important thing to have in a state where we suffer from appalling low birth weight, infant statistics and also substantial infant mortality statistics. A state which, for the first time in many years. has seen an increase in infant mortality. Never mind some very excellent programs that we have begun over the last several years."

"So would it be fair to say, that for all practical 144  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 purposes we are utilizing machinery that's already in place? We are utilizing personnel already in place?"

"He are expanding on existing programs to make sure that the program reaches across the geography of the State of Illinois, not only individuals who happen to live in certain census tracts or certain community neighborhoods."

"One final question. Why do we need this if we have all these programs already in place, Representative Currie?"

"Because the programs presently do not reach all who can benefit from the services, and because we do not, in the programs we have in place, make sure that we are looking at the well baby care along with the prenatal and nutritional guidance care that this Bill proposes."

"My thanks to the Sponsor."

"The Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."

"T "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will.

"Representative Currie, you mentioned that this Bill should, in fact, take care of all people who are obviously, according to your interpretation, falling through the cracks. Is this... is this the final Bill in a legislative process that will finally take care of everybody on a particular issue?"

"Representative, this Bill applies to low-income, pregnant women under the age of 21 and their new babies."

"Well, is it not true that in school, now, high school, for example, that we teach home ec.? Aren't these same programs now being made available to those young ladies who would be attending school?"

"Of course, many of these young women are not in school, Representative Ropp, and we're dealing here with medical and health services, nutritional guidance and so forth, as well as prenatal visits, and as well as visits from the 145  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 nurse to new babies in their home settings. They don't do that at school.

"Well, are you saying that if, when we went to school, when we were 16, 17 and 18 and learned these things. that we don't remember them, then, when we're 21, or under 21?"

"This is a service program, Representative, not an educational program. I mean, I believe service also implies some educational experience, but this is a direct service program."

"Well, I would think that in every county in the State of Illinois, we have extension services that provide these kinds of either services or educational programs for young ladies who are about to become mothers, and that these programs should certainly be utilized. They do not prohibit anyone, be it either age ог sex or color or religion from the services, and that I would certainly encourage those people who obviously, for some reason, feel that they are not made available to those services, utilize the current services that we have here in the State of Illinois. One final question. In our analysis it says 'persons eligible for assistance are' and then it says *whose gross income does not exceed the nonfarm poverty income. Can you tell me what the nonfarm poverty income guideline is?"

"I believe, Representative, it's $5,500.00 on a yearly basis for one person."

"For one person. Okay."

"So this is targeted to low income people.

"Alright, I guess to the Bill, very briefly. Ladies and Gentlemen, it seems like this is another Bill that is attempting to work in areas that we already have a number of programs in existence, and I somewhat generally support these programs, if in fact we can spend a few bucks now, so 146  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 that we don't have to spend more dollars later on. Being in the legislature now for several years, I don't think I've ever seen a program that has started that has had any major impact on a program later on in life. Every program that we've started, in the next 4 or 5 years, has continued to increase in total dollars. And so all these programs that we're attempting to help young people early in life, for some reason, it seems like we just spend more and more money, and I think in this particular session, when we're a little bit short of funds, I would hope that these would people utilize existing programs that are on line, that are working and that have shown proven results before."

"Further discussion? Seeing none, the Lady from Cook, Representative Currie to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. House Bill 294 is intended precisely to make sure that services are available to low income pregnant women and their newborn babies, when those women are under the age of 21. Pregnant women who do not receive prenatal care are three times as likely to deliver a low birth weight baby than women who do receive prenatal care. Those babies are 20 times more likely to die before their first baby, because they have serious developmental and learning disabilities. The cost for hospitalization for a premature or low birth weight baby is likely to exceed $20,000.00. House Bill 294...

"Continue."

"...from the Department of Public Health would cost us less than $80,000.00 to operate. I think this is money well spent. Four babies born without deficiencies and disabilities, is all that we'll need to save in order to pay for this program. I would urge your 'yes' vote for House Bill 294." 147  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 294 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 63 voting 'yes', 43 voting 'no'. Representative... and 3 voting 'present'. Representative Mulcahey, 'aye'. 64, Representative Wojcik."

"Yes, since this Bill has passed, I would like to have a Verified Roll Call, a verification."

"Verification. Representative Parke?"

"Mr. Chair, I'd like to be recorded as 'present'."

"Representative Parke votes 'present'. Representative Hoffman votes 'no'. Are there further changes? Now there are 65 voting 'yes', 44 voting 'no' and 4 voting 'present', and the Lady asks for a verification. Representative Currie asks for a poll of the absentees."

"A poll of those not voting. Representative Farley, Giglio, Keane, Kulas and Mautino."

"Representative Giglio votes 'aye', Mr. Clerk. The Lady asks for a verification. Mr. Clerk, verify the affirmative."

"Poll of the Affirmative. Berrios, Bowman, Braun, Breslin, Brunsvold, Bugielski, Christensen, Cullerton, Curran, Currie, Daley, Davis, DeJaegher, ...

"Excuse me, Mr. Clerk, Representative Mulcahey, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"Mr. Speaker, can I have leave to be verified now?"

"Does the Gentleman have leave, Representative Hojcik? The Gentleman has leave."

"Thank you."

"Leave is granted. Representative Breslin in the Chair." 148  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"Continuing with the Poll of the Affirmative. DeJaegher, DeLeo, Deuchler, Dunn, Flinn... "

"Representative Wojcik, Representative Preston and Representative Keane ask leave to be verified and Representative Keane wishes to vote 'aye'. Record Representative Keane as voting 'aye'. Representative LeFlore asks leave to be verified."

"Continuing with the Poll of the Affirmative. Flinn, Flowers, Giglio, Giorgi, Granberg, Greiman, Hannig, Hartke, Hicks, Homer, Huff, Hultgren, Jones.... "

"Excuse me. Representative Jones asks leave to be verified, Representative Wojcik. Does the Lady have leave? Yes, the Lady has leave."

"Keane, Kirkland, Krska, Laurino, LeFlore, Leverenz, Levin, Martinez, Matijevich,... "

"Excuse me, Representative Mautino votes 'aye', Representative Ronan? The Gentleman asks leave to be verified. Representative Wojcik. You have leave, Sir. Representative Levin asks for leave to be verified. Representative Wojcik. Representative Levin asks leave to be verified. You have leave, Sir. Proceed, Mr. Clerk."

"Continuing. Mautino, McNamara, McPike, Morrow, Mulcahey, Novak, O'Connell, Panayotovich, Phelps, Preston, Rea, Rice, Richmond, Ronan, Saltsman, Satterthwaite, Shaw, Slater, Steczo, Stern, Sutker, Turner, Van Duyne, White, Williams, Wolf, Anthony Young, Hyvetter Younge and Mr. Speaker."

"Any questions of the affirmative, Representative Wojcik?"

"Yes."

"Proceed."

"Representative Flinn?"

"Representative Flinn? Monroe Flinn, is the 149  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Richmond?"

"Representative Richmond? Bruce Richmond. Is the Gentleman in the chamber. He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Shaw?"

"Representative Shaw is in the chamber."

"Okay. Representative Panayotovich."

"Representative Panayotovich is in the chamber."

"Representative Farley?"

"Representative Farley. Representative Bruce Farley. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Kulas?"

"Excuse me, Representative. Was Representative Farley voting. Mr. Clerk?"

"The Gentleman is not recorded as voting."

"The Gentleman was not voting."

"Excuse me. Representative McGann."

"Representative McGann is in his chair, as always."

"They got him hidden over there. I can't see him. Representative O'Connell."

"Representative O'Connell. John O'Connell. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Bugielski."

"Representative Bugielski? Bob Bugielski, is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Berrios."

"Representative Berrios is in the chamber." 150  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Representative Giglio."

May 20, 1987 "Representative Giglio. Frank Giglio is in the chamber."

"Get in your seat, Frank. Representative Phelps."

"Representative Phelps is in his chair."

"Representative Greiman?"

"Representative Greiman? Representative Alan Greiman? Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Matijevich?"

"Representative Greiman has returned to the chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting 'aye'."

"Representative Matijevich?"

"Representative Matijevich is in the chamber. Representative Bob Bugielski is in the chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting 'aye'."

"Representative DeLeo."

"Representative DeLeo. Jim DeLeo? Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call. Do you have any further questions of the Affirmative?"

"Representative... oh, she asked, Jones asked for leave, correct? Representative Jones?"

"Yes, she did."

"No further questions."

"On this question there are 63 voting 'aye, 44 voting 'no and 4 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 295, Representative Currie. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 295, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Currie." 151  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

May 20, 1987 "Thank you, Madam Speaker, and Members of the House. This Bill would enable Illinois to take advantage of recent expansions in the Federal Medicaid Program. Legislation passed by the Federal Congress and signed by President Reagan, in response to infant mortality and low birth weight problems across this country, has determined that the Federal Government will help us pay for medical services to all low income pregnant women and their newborn children when their incomes reach the Federal poverty level. That standard is more expansive that the present Illinois standard. The reason the Federal Government and the President of these United States, Ronald Reagan, decided this was a good idea is because it is clear in this country that we must do something to stem the appalling infant mortality statistics that we suffer from from one state to the next. Illinois is no exception to the general rule. In fact, we are among the ten bottom states in infant mortality. For black babies, we are among the five worst states in the nation. House Bill 295 will enable us to serve with prenatal and birth services low income women whose babies are otherwise at risk of developmental disabilities and in some cases, even death. It will also enable us to take advantage of federal dollars. We talk a lot in the State of Illinois about our balance of payment problem with Washington. We send more to Washington than we get back. Every dollar we spend under the provisions of House Bill 295 is matched, one for one, by the Federal Government. House Bill 295 offers us the opportunity to solve a pressing social and physical problem. It also offers us the opportunity to access federal dollars that are available for this worthwhile purpose. I would welcome your questions, and I would certainly appreciate your support for House Bill 295." 152  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"The Lady has moved the passage of House Bill 295. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question... the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken. The Lady from Cook, Representative Wojcik."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. My light was on. I do have some questions of the Sponsor. Do you know approximately what this would cost per woman?"

"Turn on Representative Currie's light, please?"

"There is some confusion as to the actual cost. I can tell you, a lot less than a football stadium. The Department of Public Aid has given me three separate figures on the cost of this program, ranging from 4.8 million total, which would be 2.4 million state, to 44 million. The Economic and Fiscal Commission casts grave doubt upon the most recent fiscal note from the Department of Public Aid. It is clear, from the Economic and Fiscal analysis, that the program can be nothing like as expensive as the $20,000,000.00 most recent price tag that Department gave me. The people who work in this area tell me that on the basis of their figures, there is no question that the State cost would not exceed 5 million dollars. Not only less than a football stadium, this Bill is a lot less than a baseball stadium."

"I'd like to speak to the Bill."

"Proceed."

"According to what I see, we are looking at a cost of $2,368.00 per woman, and that would total 30 million dollars annually. The cost of providing the care for the infants and children up to age 2 under this Act, which covers approximately 15,900, is estimated at an additional 13.6 million annually. What we really are looking at with the cost of this Bill is 44.4 million dollars. Though the 153  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 Sponsor is well intended, I think that with the current crises developing within this State, we're going to have to seriously look at some of these proposals, and I am saying that this would be very drastic at this time to pick up such a cost. We're talking 44.4 million dollars."

"The Gentleman from Will, Representative Regan."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. Will the Sponsor leave for some questions, please?"

"She will."

"Representative Currie, what's the difference between this Bill and the last Bill, just briefly, if you could?"

"The last Bill did not deal with birthing services, but prenatal care for low income pregnant women up to the age of 21. This Bill would take advantage of President Reagan's program SO that we could cover birthing and prenatal services for all low income pregnant women."

"Doesn't that sound repetitive? Isn't that..."

"Well, it would expand beyond the age of 21 and it would include delivery services."

"Oh, this is for over 21."

"It will include the people that were covered under the last Bill, but extend the coverage to those over the age of 21, if they are low income. That's the Bill the President signed, and this Bill only would make sure that our Governor can get some of our taxpayer dollars back from Washington, just the way President Reagan wants us to, because he cares, as we do, about solving this problem of infant mortality and infant morbidity."

"To the Bill, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This goes on and on forever. $83,000.00 sounded pretty cheap for under 21. Over 21 is 44 million. That speaks well for the 17 year-olds and 16 year-olds. Looks like they're doing a pretty good job. We've talked a lot about cradle 154  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 to grave. This certainly brings it womb to tomb, and I would say for a 'no' vote there."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Preston."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. As with the previous Bill, this Bill is a very needed and cost effective measure. This permits federal participation, federal dollars, in a program that would make future spending by the State unnecessary because we intervene at a prenatal or very early age of the child to keep a child well so that that child need not eat up $20,000.00 as an underweight, sickly newborn baby. That's the cost. That's what happens as the alternative to this legislation. You're going to end up with underweight child... mothers who don't have prenatal care for their pregnancy will end up with underweight children. These underweight children will need hospitalization, intensive hospitalization, as newborn babies, and that cost will be $20,000.00 cost instead of much fewer dollars spent at an early stage. Irving Harris, who testified before the Select Committee on Children, emphasized how very important this kind of legislation was, and how very cost effective this kind of legislation was, to avoid future costs and future problems in human terms. So I... I could not more strongly urge an 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Steczo."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. The question 155  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day is put. Representative Currie to close." May 20, 1987

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I said initially, the cost question is not altogether clear. The Department of Public Aid first said 2.4 million, a far cry from the 44 million you've heard described on this floor. There's no question that this Bill will cost state taxpayers well under 5 million dollars. The money will be well spent. We have a responsibility to the unborn babies. The babies today, born with low birth weight, who are a problem for us as taxpayers. If we want to solve the problem of infant mortality, this is the way for us to go. Let's say 'Thank you, President Reagan. Illinois is ready to see the problems your way and to rescue back some of the dollars we send to Washington.. Let's vote 'yes' for House Bill 295."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 295 pass? All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Representative Stephens, one minute to explain your vote."

"It won't take that long, Madam Speaker. Thank you. The constant invoking of President Reagan's name, if Reagan, if President Reagan had the line item veto, like he ought to have, he would have seen fit to strike the language from the federal Bill allowing for this. It's a matter of priorities. We can't do everything for everybody. We have to... what you're talking about is 44 million dollars in increased expenditures. No way to pay for them. We're fooling the public. We ought not be voting for this foolishness."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative McNamara. One minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think it's important to realize what this Bill actually does. It brings, and it actually reduces the cost of the hospitalization that the 156  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL AS SEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 Public Aid is going to have to carry on for those children that are very... that are undernourished, that are born... that have all of those problems, and it saves us the funds to carry those through life. This is a preventative program... What is the cost of life? I think it's a very fine program and I commend the Sponsor for bringing it to the floor."

"Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken. One minute... Have all voted who wish? This Bill requires 60 votes for passage. Have all voted who wish? Representative Currie, one minute Currie: to explain your vote." "Again, cheaper than a football stadium. Cheaper than a softball stadium, and it's about what we're supposed to be about in the State of Illinois, that is making for an economy, making for a society in which babies can groㅂ and babies can thrive. This is what we're supposed to be about, helping people who are not in a position to help themselves. We can save money in the long-run. We can recapture our tax dollars that now go to Hashington. This, it seems to me, is exactly what the work of this State should be, and I would appreciate seeing more 'yes' votes for House Bill 295."

"Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?"

"You're not recorded as voting."

"I wish to be recorded as voting 'aye', and please change the voting switches so that I can record my votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 51 voting 'aye', 50 voting 'no' and 10 voting present'. Representative Currie asks for postponed consideration. The Bill will be placed on the Order of Postponed Consideration. House Bill 389, Representative Cullerton. 157  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 389, a Bill for an Act in relationship to trauma centers. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Cullerton."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Starting, I believe, in December of last year, the fire department ambulances in Chicago, who had a child... who was taking a child to a hospital, if that child was a trauma victim, would drive past the closest hospital and take the child to one of five hospitals in Cook County. They included Loyola University Medical Center, Cook County Hospital, Children's Memorial Hospital, and the University of Chicago. This was pursuant to an ordinance which the City of Chicago adopted. And the purpose of that ordinance was to establish which hospitals were best able to care for children who were the victims of pediatric... of trauma. It turns out that medical evidence as such, that if you take a child who has been an accident victim to a... not the closest hospital, but the hospital that's best able to prepare for, and is prepared to care for that child, that you will save many lives. So this ordinance went into effect, and as a matter of fact, the City of Chicago is planning on expanding this program to not only trauma victims, but pediatric emergency care victims. The definition of trauma was such that it wouldn't cover all types of accident cases. So these five hospitals voluntarily signed up. They are the hospitals that are best prepared. And I took a tour of the Wyler Childrens Hospital at the University of Chicago, and this girl, the La Rocca girl who had the four liver transplants, happened to be there. It's incredibly expensive equipment that is used for these little children. They have an intensive care unit there that is just the highest cost 158  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 system in the whole hospital, because that's what they need to do to take care of these children. Now, the problem is that our I Care program, which we enacted, which I think is an excellent program, which has, according to the Department of Public Aid, saved over a hundred million dollars this year by forcing hospitals to be more competitive, and that system reimburses hospitals. In the beginning of the year they determine how many days, of Medicaid days, they will be given and how much their rate will be. And it's a competitive process and these hospitals are being forced to have some cost control imposed upon them. The problem is, however, with that programs as it relates to pediatric specialized care, is that, when you pass an ordinance like this, there is really no competitiveness involved. The fire ambulance takes that child to one of those five hospitals. The Medicare payments, the Medicaid payment system, which reimburses the hospital, reimburses them up to about one-third to one-half of the actual cost to the hospital. As a result, these hospitals are threatened with dropping out of this particular program. And this, by the way, is a program which will be... should be set up statewide, and perhaps, someday will be set up statewide, just as we have with all trauma centers, just as all hospitals in the state are rated. You save lives if you bring a victim to the proper hospital. So what this Bill does is to require the Department to negotiate separate contracts with these trauma centers that provide this specialty service. In doing so, they cannot limit the number of days to be paid and the rates must be sufficient to reimburse the hospitals for services provided. And we would set up the Child Trauma and Critical Care Fund from which the payments would be made. Now, the Department, of course, is opposed to 159  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 this. and I think the main reason why they are opposed to it is because of the precedent that it would set. The precedent would be, of course, that there is a whittling away of the theory of the I-Care program. I don't agree with that assessment. I'm not saying we should attack the I-Care program. I think it definitely saved the State a lot of money, and it's forced hospitals to be competitive, but when you get into this specific type of specialized care for children, those same factors aren't present. So for that reason. I think it's a good idea. Now, the way we would do this, then, is to set up a separate fund, the Child Trauma and Critical Care Fund, from which these payments would be made. They would be separate payments to these particular hospitals that would sign up for this program. If we don't have the money to appropriate into that fund, obviously no money can be spent. I would suggest to you that the issue as to whether or not we're going to spend more money on this program to reimburse these hospitals SO that they will continue to provide specialized care, is something that we should decide when we decide the appropriation process, but recognizing the fact that it is necessary to set up such a fund now, is what this Bill will do. So the Department would say that, ideally, if this was to be funded, it would be funded with about 5 million dollars. That's five million dollars that we would not be saving. Right now we're saving over a hundred million, perhaps we'd save around a hundred million. So I think the issue of cost is something that should be taken up if and when we determine at the end of this year, this fiscal year, whether or not we're going to have any more money to spend. But setting up the program and establishing the fund and recognizing the problems that these hospitals have is what this Bill is all about. Of 160  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 course, it's supported by the Illinois Hospital Association, because they recognize the fact that in these particular types of hospitals there is a need. This really is an issue that deals with health care and I would appreciate your support. Be happy to answer any questions."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 389. And on that question, the Gentleman from Morgan, Representative Ryder."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield for a few questions?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, I think that you were fairly descriptive in your explanation of this matter; however, there was part of it that I didn't hear all that clearly. Perhaps you could restate it again. What's the cost or the fiscal note, fiscal impact of this legislation?"

"Well, what I said was this. We're establishing a fund with this Bill, a separate fund, and that would have to be... money would have to be appropriated into that fund. When the money is appropriated into that fund, it would be paid out separately to the hospitals that are applying to this pediatric program. So this Bill doesn't cost a dime. The Department says that, in order to fund these hospitals the way the Bill calls for, it would cost about 5 million dollars. That's what they anticipate the cost would be. So what that means is, instead of saving 105 million dollars, as the Department is claiming this I Care program will save this year, we'll only save a hundred million dollars."

"Thank you for the answer to some other questions. The question that I asked was, the fiscal note on this matter does indicate a cost of 5 to 10 million dollars, is that 161  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day not correct?" Cullerton:

May 20, 1987 "The fiscal note was prepared by the Department that's opposed to the Bill. I said it costs 5 million dollars if we decide to fund it." "Fine. And, your Bill allows up to 200% of cost. Is that correct?"

"No. Payments cannot exceed actual hospital cost. That 200% is 200% of the hospital's rate for basic care established by the Department, but in no way could it exceed their actual cost. The cost for pediatric care is so enormous that that's why that 200% was put in there. It's usually going to be more."

"If I understand correctly, these are the hospitals that negotiated with the Department of Public Aid, that now have a rate set, days established, by the Department of Public Aid, and we're talking about Public Aid recipients, and you are now saying that instead of going to the hospitals that bargained in good faith with the Department, and the Department that bargained in good faith with the hospitals, that we're opening up an entire process so that that bargaining was now not in good faith."

"Very good point, and I'll try to explain it. When they negotiated with the Department, they established a rate that applies to all general hospital costs."

"No. No, that's not right."

"When they negotiated with the Department, if you want to call it negotiate with the Department, they get one rate for Medicare patients. Okay, so the City of Chicago passes an Ordinance which says, if you are one of the five hospitals that are specialized in child care, and you want to sign up for this... volunteer for this program, we're going to bring you more kids. So these kids come in... are brought in. They by... they drive past the local community 162  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 hospital, and they show up at Childrens Memorial with these extra children who normally wouldn't be brought there. When they get there they have an additional number of Medicaid patients who they normally would not have when they sat down and negotiated with the Department. Because of this ordinance, because of their volunteering to be... to have their specialized care utilized, they're having more children brought to them, so any negotiations that involved the number of days, or a rate, doesn't mean anything, because... now because of this ordinance they have to... have to take more children. Now the only option they have is to drop out of the program. These children then will be brought to the local hospital and many lives could be lost because they wouldn't get the specialized care that is necessary."

"Representative, surely you're not asking us to, in some way, inviolate an Ordinance of the City of Chicago to correct a problem that is created by an Ordinance of the City of Chicago. Surely, you're not asking us to do that."

"No. No. Once again... once again, this is not... this does not apply just to Chicago. This applies to... "

"No, it applies to all states, but you're talking about an Ordinance by the City of Chicago that created this problem."

"That's right. Well, when these hospitals... "

"Now you're asking us... and now you're asking us to change the whole thing?"

"No. No. These hospitals... these hospitals are not mandated to be in this program. These hospitals are not mandated. When you have... when you have an accident out in Naperville, where there is a child who is a victim, and it's the best hospital... the best hospital to take care of that child is going to be, say, Loyola Medical Center, they 163  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 take that child in a helicopter to Loyola Medical Center, there's going to be treatment given to that child at Loyola's Medical Center. This is a statewide issue. These... anywhere in the state, if they want to establish such a plan, if the State Department of Public Health, themselves, might establish such a ... "

"Representative Ryder, your five minutes are up. Please bring your remarks to a close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to finish. Ladies and Gentlemen, the point is that I-Care, through the Department of Public Aid, has saved us an estimated 100 million dollars, and this Bill is the first step towards going back, by the Sponsor's own admission, we're going to lose 5% of that savings, and next year maybe more. This is the first step back. I-Care program works, it works well, and a 'no' vote is the proper vote on this Bill."

"The Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative DeJaegher."

"Representative Cullerton. Clarification, and possibly I missed part of the conversation, but the gist that I get is, is it true that you're trying to negotiate a separate contract for those five hospitals in Chicago, or is this statewide?"

"No. It's statewide. These hospitals are not all in Chicago. They are in the Chicagoland area. They happen to be the hospitals that specialize in child care, so if you have a hospital in your area that has specialized... a special unit for child care, what we're saying with this is, you'd bring the children who are injured, not to the closest hospital, but to that hospital that has the specialized services. And all the Bill says is that when the Department negotiates with those hospitals in determining how much money they are going to give them for 164  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 the Medicaid patients, they have to take that money out of a separate fund, and not penalize that hospital for accepting these children because they have these specialized services, expensive specialized services. So, to answer your question succinctly, it is a statewide program. Any hospital that provides specialized care would be eligible to get funded from this fund."

"Then it's not your intent to set up a separate line item dealing with those specific five hospitals."

"Oh, no, not at all. It would be a separate fund, and again, I would point out, these hospitals are world famous, in some cases. The Children's Memorial Hospital is world famous. They have people coming in from all over the State, all over the Nation, are brought in to these hospitals. And the same thing would be true. Someone who is injured in your district could be brought in, and in fact, probably right now, is brought in for specialized care in one of these hospitals."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Churchill."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Cullerton, am I to hear you correctly saying there is a special ordinance in the City of Chicago that makes it so that children from the City of Chicago go to these hospitals that are under the contract?"

"I'm trying to think of the best way to answer that. The best way would be to set up... give you an analogy."

"No. Is there an ordinance?"

"Yes. There is an ordinance."

"And the ordinance says that these children shall go to these facilities." 165  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"If the facilities volunteer to be part of the program."

"Okay, so if they are a part of the program that get public aid dollars, then the children go to those facilities, and that's in a specific ordinance in the City of Chicago."

"That's correct."

"Okay. And how many hospitals are there that are under this contract?"

"Pardon me?"

"How many hospitals does this include?"

"Right now, it includes five. They're located... I'll give you the names."

"No. That's okay. I... there are five..."

"They're not in Chicago... not all in Chicago, you understand that?"

"Okay, where are they?"

"And they don't accept children all from Chicago, you understand that?"

"I understand, but it is a Chicago ordinance that says that."

"They come from Lake County, they come from DuPage County, they come from anywhere across the state, because they have this specialized care. You see, the best way to explain this to you, assuming you're sincere in your question, is that we... looking at the trauma network that we have now, the Illinois Department of Public Health set up a trauma network. I think they rate hospitals in three categories, in terms of their ability to deal with trauma victims, and as a result, people are directed to the hospitals which are best able to handle trauma victims. The same thing will happen with pediatric trauma. In Chicago they did it already through this ordinance. The 166  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 same thing will be done throughout the Department... throughout the State by the Department, and as a result, you will have this network where specific hospitals that can handle this particular type of emergency, will be the ones where they will be directed. When that happens, when they get these extra kids, the I-Care program doesn't... the principles of the I-Care program don't apply. The theory of the I-Care program is to bring people to local community based hospitals rather than more expensive teaching hospitals. But that theory doesn't work when you're talking about specialized care."

"Okay, but can't they go back to the contract process and negotiate for specialty care, for more days for specialty care?"

"I don't want to misstate what the Department says. I think, to be fair, the Department says that they take into account the fact that these people could be getting more trauma victims, children trauma victims, and as a result they take that into account when they negotiate the contracts. You see, you have to understand that the way this really works, you think it's like a negotiation. The way it really works is, they sit down and say we got X number of dollars, and therefore, you're going to get X number of days at a certain rate. It's about one-half of what their actual costs are to the hospitals. So it's good in the fact that it forces the hospitals to cut down on their costs, but they're never going to be totally reimbursed for their expenses for Medicaid patients. And this is what... this is what the hospitals have been complaining about the program, but, you know, it's good and it's bad, but with regard to these specialized... with regard to the things that are needed to take care of these kids, there's just no way they could possibly come close to 167  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 50th Legislative Day recouping the cost. So that's the theory of the Bill."

"Okay, to the Bill, Madam Speaker. I guess I would rise in opposition because I feel that this is a Bill that, because of a Chicago ordinance, we are going to have to create a drain on the system for the total state and that everybody else in the whole state is going to end up transporting dollars to this particular program because of an ordinance that they have in only the City of Chicago. So I would stand in opposition."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Terzich. Representative Terzich."

"Let me go. Thank you. Representative Cullerton, you mentioned about the fire department ambulances going to trauma centers, and you stipulated that they... they have roughly five trauma centers where the ambulance goes to, and they have that set up because the hospitals basically have qualified to administer certain care and that's one of the reasons that they go to the trauma centers rather than a number of other hospitals which are certified to do different things. The... under this Bill, are you setting up, whereby all hospitals would then make available this children trauma care? Or do the ones that at the present time have trauma care units provide that service?"

"Pay attention. No. This does not change the hospitals that the victims are supposed to be brought to. The reason why those five hospitals are there is because they have the facilities to take care of those... those needs. In fact, the whole theory of the thing is for them not to be brought to the hospital that can't handle them. What this Bil1 says is that, with regard to the reimbursement. the Medicaid reimbursement of those hospitals with their public aid patients, they're going to get their money out of a separate fund that will more 168  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 adequately reimburse those hospitals so they can continue to provide these specialized services."

"Well, isn't that true with regard to all Medicaid? I mean, are there any other types of services that provide more money for services, or are we just specializing children care rather than adult care? Why would we just say children only that come under Medicaid rather than anybody who comes under the Medicaid program?"

"Well, the reason for that, I think, the justification for that, is that the costs of providing emergency care to pediatric victims is higher than the cost of providing trauma care to any victim. The reason for that is they need separate machines. They need smaller machines. They need more... it's just a more costly type of service. You don't have as many doctors that are specialized in that area. Those are some of the reasons for the distinction."

"Well, I would assume that if it's an emergency case, regardless of whether it was a Medicaid patient or anyone else, is that the hospital would have to treat that patient, regardless of what the circumstances would be. So what difference would it make if a hospital did receive that type of a patient and they weren't satisfied with their reimbursement under Medicaid. They would still have to administer treatment. Then the question would be is, whether or not the hospital is satisfied with the reimbursement."

"Right. As I understand... As... Right. As I understand the I-Care program, with regard to emergency treatment... I'm trying to answer that question with regard to... your question deals with the issue of what about anybody else who is not a child who gets injured and is brought to a..."

"If a patient goes to a hospital and it's an emergency 169  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 case, they treat that person regardless of if it's a child or anyone else, whether they are covered for Medicaid, or whether they're covered for insurance, or whether they don't have any coverage at all."

"That's right."

"I assume that a hospital has to treat emergency patients."

"Yes."

"To the best of their ability, whether or not they have any special care or not. So what difference would it make if an emergency patient went to a hospital, then did receive the treatment, all you're talking about is some type of reimbursement through a Medicaid plan."

"Well, the only way I can answer that is to answer as I did before. The costs are higher at the hospitals that treat children victims."

"So, it doesn't deny him treatment."

"No, but see the problem is that these hospitals, these five hospitals, for example, in the Chicago area that volunteered for this specialized care, they volunteered pursuant to a suggestion by an ordinance that these are the best hospitals to handle these kids. If they drop out of that program, then those Chicago fire department ambulances won't bring a kid to those hospitals. They'll bring them to the closest hospital to where the accident occurred, and as a result that child won't get the treatment that is necessary. The regs that you would come under as a fire department ambulance driver right now, pursuant to this Ordinance, you're directed to bring that kid to one of those five hospitals. Am I right?"

"Right."

"Now, if they drop out of that program, then you can't bring them there. You can't bring them... you can't drive 170  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day past... you hospital." May 20, 1987 can't drive past. You'll go to the closest

"No, that's right. No, that's not...

"Representative Terzich, your five minutes are up. Please bring your remarks to a close."

"Well, I don't think that would be true, because they would designate wherever, for whatever treatment, they would still set up certain hospitals that the ambulances would respond to. They're not going to check a list to see whether they're for children care or senior care or for the blind or the handicapped to find out whether or not they specialize in certain treatment. They would still have their designated hospitals, and that's exactly where they would go. So I don't... I don't know what purpose this would do."

"The Gentleman from Hill, Representative Regan."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. Would the Sponsor leave for a question?"

"He will."

"John, we heard this in Committee and I was asking some questions when the new Committee structure that was set up caused everybody to dash out of the Committee, but the question has been covered a little bit, but it's in regards to the negotiations that go on between the Department and the hospitals. You're indicating that there isn't any negotiation, that the Department sets up what they feel is a fair amount of money and the hospitals can take it or leave it. Is that correct?"

"Yes, I would say the negotiations are kind of one sided."

"Alright, if the hospitals just absolutely... and I can understand why it costs more money to treat injured children than it would normally... if that's the case, 171  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 then the negative thing of this is that they say, well, then we just want to drop out of the program. Why don't we just let them drop out of the program and then force the Department back into a better negotiating position? Let's keep the negotiations in the Bill. What your Bill is doing is just removing the whole aspect of I-Care, and the reason that we save money in the first place, isn't it?"

"Well, I think that it's... I think that it's limited enough to this specific area, that is pediatric trauma, so that you're not jeopardizing the benefits of the competitive nature of the negotiating process. You see, the problem is this. If they just drop out of the program, what really happens... this is what I was trying to explain to Representative Terzich. If your child is injured in a drowning, let's say they break through the ice and they are an emergency care victim, they're going to be brought, let's say this happens in the Chicago area, they're going to be brought to the closest hospital, even though they don't have all the facilities that would be needed to save that child's life. So the kid dies. If the ordinance is enacted, as it has been in Chicago, it says you're not supposed to take them to the closest hospital, you're supposed to take them to one of these five hospitals. They show up there, they might save the life. Okay. So the problem is, that's where you get to the health care issue. If you don't have this incentive for these hospitals to stay in the program, they're going to drop out and then you're not going to have the reason to push to bring the kids to the proper hospital in the first place."

"To the Bill, Madam Speaker. I don't think the hospitals would drop out. I think that they would argue a little bit, fight a little bit, certainly put up a Bill like this so that they can double their profits, that's all... that's 172  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 very nice. The Department certainly has a right to negotiate in good faith with the hospitals and I think they've done that to a certain extent. I also feel that this is the absolute destruction of one of the best programs that ever came in. The Sponsor admits himself that this is a whittling away of the negotiation between the hospitals and the Department. What is the next step? The next step would be seniors that take long, expensive care. The middle step would be kidney patients that have to be put on machines. s. This would go on and on and on until the whole program is destroyed and I would advise a 'no vote."

"The Gentleman from Madison, Representative Wolf."

"Madam Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'". In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it and the main question is put. Representative Cullerton to close."

"Yes. Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I recognize the concern that some of the Members have expressed with regard to the undermining the I-Care program. I think that the I-Care program has worked very well. I think that the hospitals are eating some costs for public aid recipients. Most of them are in the Chicago area, but I think that that's being made up by the cost of the people who pay insurance premiums and other users of the hospital, and maybe that's the way it has to be. I think I've identified, though, a very small area where the theory of the I-Care program does not work. And as a result, what we're seeing is that we have a program where true health issues are being... are 173  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 being threatened. Childrens health is being threatened as a result of the I-Care program. I think that what we should do is set up this fund, see at the end of the year if we have any money. I know that if we don't have any tax increases we're not going to have any money to fund this. I recognize that. But I'll tell you what. If we are going to have any kind of tax increases, and I'm going to support them, I sure would like to know that this fund has been created SO that some of this money can go there. I think this is a public health issue that is of importance. I appreciate your patience and I'd appreciate your vote."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 389 pass?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 48 voting 'aye', 54 voting 'no' and 11 voting "present", and this Bill, having failed to receive the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared lost. House Bill 508, Representative Preston. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Supplemental Calendar 1 is being distributed."

"Excuse me, Mr. Clerk. Before we go to that Order, the Clerk has asked me to announce that all Bills on the Supplemental 1 Appropriations Consent Calendar passed by the Constitutional Majority today, Wednesday, May 20. The Chair, therefore, declares that these Bills, having received the Constitutional Majority, are hereby declared passed. For the record, I would like to say personally that as to House Bill 1368, I have a conflict of interest in that legislation, and pursuant to the recommendation of the Governmental Ethics Act, I am recorded as not voting on that Bill. Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 508, a Bill for an Act to amend the 174  50th Legislative Day School Code. Speaker Breslin: rise?" STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 Third Reading of the Bill." "Representative Preston, for what reason do you

"Madam Speaker, House Bill 507 should be the first Bill, I believe, called on that."

"Representative Preston, we are on a subject matter call. The Bill next on this list of subject matter under Child Development is 508. Please proceed."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 508 requires that high schools in Illinois include in their curriculum instruction to children on parenting and family relations. The purpose of the Bill is a Child Abuse Prevention 3i11. High school students are, of course, females in high school, are about to become mothers. I... unfortunately, too often in high school itself, and very frequently within a year or two thereafter, and we have found in studies that have been done that some 60% of abusive parents were abused children, and this instruction in high schools is necessary to break that vicious cycle. To teach parents to be that the proper response to a child that is crying is not to hit the child. That a child has certain needs. That a certain amount of patience is necessary, and indeed, we've found in Illinois and around the country that it is more difficult to get a drivers license than it is to become a parent, and this gives some instruction on what parenting means and what the relationship and responsibility of a parent to a child might be, and I'd be glad to answer any questions."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 508. And on that question, the Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will." 175  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Representative, does this include the nutrition for infants?"

"Yes, it does, Representative." May 20, 1987 teaching of

"In other words, we're passing a Bill now that somewhat does the same thing that we passed legislation not more than an hour ago to also provide the same kind of instruction and teaching for infants."

"No, Representative, that's not correct. What this Bill does is it emphasizes the areas of child growth and development, prevention of child abuse, which is really the underlying reason for this Bill, parenting skill development, teaching someone what it means to be a parent. Now, to some extent, nutrition is, of course, part of that. The importance of nutrition for that child is part of it. So, if there's other legislation we passed that overlaps, that may be the case. But we do not have, now, in our high schools instruction on the care, emotional care, if you will, of a child. The awareness to someone who is about to become a parent that abuse of a child is what happens when you emotionally deprive the child or physically abuse the child."

"In other words, what we are attempting to do here is to teach or to instruct parents to have TLC for their kids. Tender loving care."

"That's basically it. To have tender loving care and what it means to demonstrate that tender loving care. You are correct."

"Okay. Thank you."

"Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, the question is, *Shall House Bill...' excuse me, the Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hould the Sponsor yield for a question?" 176  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"He indicates he will." May 20, 1987

"Thank you very much. Representative Preston, I certainly have no quarrel with what you are attempting to do, but as a former educator, could you just alleviate some concerns I have about continual mandating in the curricula. I know how difficult it was when I was a teacher to try and incorporate everything into too short a time that we were being asked to do, and if you could alleviate some concerns that I have on that matter, I'd be more than happy to support your Bill."

"Hell, Representative, there is no requirement in this legislation as to how much time a school district may spend. That's optional with the school district. It's also optional with the school district how they fit it into their curriculum. They might fit it into their heir existing health curriculum, physical education curriculum, science curriculum or social science curriculum. That, again. is discretionary with the school district. So it really does add a mandate to what the school system must provide. but it leaves it very flexible so that that school system may provide it any which way it desires and sees necessary and within what they can afford."

"The Lady from DuPage, Representative Cowlishaw."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He will."

"Representative Preston, I believe this legislation says grades 9 through 12. Is that correct?"

"That is correct."

"Alright, I want to make sure that I understand and that our school people know. That does not mean that this instruction has to be offered in grades 9, 10, 11 and 12, does it?" 177  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Representative, it does mean that, 9, 10, May 20, 1987 11 and 12. It is highly insufficient to have the school in a health class mention the emotional needs of a child one time and expect high school students to absorb that and continue to march on that program. It has to be repeated, just as we repeat science in grades 9, 10, 11 and 12 and English and math and the other subjects."

"I understand that this is probably among the best intentioned things that anybody has ever presented here. Your things always are, but I still have to say, out of absolute conviction, we keep graduating students from high schools in this state who cannot read, or write or compute, but maybe they'll be really good parents. Thank you."

"There being no further discussion, Representative Preston to close. Representative Preston."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think that this has been adequately discussed and I just ask for your 'aye' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 508 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 87 voting 'aye', 24 voting 'no' and 3 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 546, Representative Preston. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 546, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Preston."

"Madam Speaker, I'd ask leave of the House to bring this Bill back to Second Reading for the purpose of an Amendment."

"The Gentleman asks leave to return this Bill to the Order of Second Reading for the purposes of an 178  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 Amendment. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, the Gentleman has leave. The Bill is on Second. Are there any Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representative Preston."

"Representative Preston."

"Madam Speaker, I'd ask leave to withdraw Amendment #1."

"Withdraw #1. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2 is being offered by Representative Preston."

"Representative Preston."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #2 becomes the Bill. The House Bill 546, itself, was a shell Bill. This Amendment really amends the Public Aid Code in relation to job search programs and encourages public aid recipients, who are seeking those job search services, to be directed to or advised of early childhood development programs and day care type training programs to include that in the parameters that the Department of Public Aid advises these public aid recipients of so that we can encourage people to seek occupations in child care, early childhood development. whether as paraprofessionals or as, later on, perhaps, trained professionals."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 546. And on that question, the Gentleman from Will, Representative Regan."

"Yes, thank you, Madam Speaker, and Members of the House. With all due respect to my fellow friend and hearty worker, I've got to protest, maybe lightly, because the absolute contents of these Amendments were never discussed in Committee and were never discussed by us. These shell 179  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 Bills, we've seen more and more of them come out of this House, where they are just shoved aside and suddenly an Amendment comes up on Second Reading and there is the Bill. It totally makes end runs around the Committee structure and I just want our Membership on this side to know that as the spokesman of the Child Committee, we have not taken any notice of what these are, what the fiscal impact is, so beware."

"Representative Preston to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Just in response to Representative Regan's remarks, first of all, there is zero fiscal impact on this Amendment. It was very adequately discussed in our Committee. Irving Harris came and spent hours talking to our Committee, as did others, on the need for these kind of training programs and all this Amendment does is have the Department of Public Aid recommend to people looking for job search assistance, some direction, some encouragement to, perhaps, seek that job... those jobs in childhood child care programs. That's all it does."

"The question is, *Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?* All those in favor say 'aye, all those opposed say "no". In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Preston now asks leave for immediate consideration of House Bill 546. Is there any objection? Hearing no objection, the Gentleman has leave. Proceed, Mr.... Representative Preston."

"House Bill 546, a Bill for an Act to amend the Public Aid Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Preston."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of 180  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 the House. This Bill, the Amendment we discussed, is the complete Bill. I'd ask for your 'aye' vote. It costs nothing. It just tries to direct people into child care occupations."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 546. And on that question, the Gentleman from Will, Representative Regan."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. Just for a little clarification, Lee. What are we... what are we directing them to do? Look for jobs for children in coal mines, or what is the situation here? We need to know what this is all about."

"Representative Preston."

"That question... what this Bill does is, when public aid recipients seek job assistance from the Department of Public Aid, which already exists, this tells the Department of Public Aid to make available to them information on child care child development programs as possible choices for their seeking employment. That's all this does. There's a need in early... there's a need in childhood development programs in child care services, there aren't enough qualified people in those programs. So, when a public aid recipient is seeking job service advice, where do I go to find a job, Public Aid is directed to give them information on child care service opportunities for employment. That's all it does."

"I thank you. That sounds like a fine idea. Give them a brochure and send them out the door with a ..."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 546 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Representative Terzich, do you wish to explain your vote? No. Turn off the Gentleman's light. Have all voted who wish? Have all 181  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day voted who wish? May 20, 1987 The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 95 voting 'aye", 18 voting 'no' and none voting present'. The Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 547, Representative Preston. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 547, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Preston."

"Madam Speaker, I'd ask leave of the House to bring this back... this Bill back to Second for the purpose of an Amendment."

"The Gentleman asks leave to return this Bill... return this Bill to the Order of Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, the Gentleman has leave. Are there any Amendments filed, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representative Preston."

"Representative Preston."

"I'd like to withdraw Amendment #1.

"Withdraw #1. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment £2 is being offered by Representative Preston."

"Representative Preston."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. What Amendment #2 to House Bill 547 does, is, first of all, it becomes the Bill. 547 was a shell Bill. What this Amendment does is, it encourages the Department of Children and Family Services to provide demonstration, four demonstration projects, based on what has been called the Beethoven Project, which is a program of prenatal care, 182  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 early childhood care, again, to prevent the giant costs that are otherwise experienced by families that are on public aid, welfare, low income families that don't have that kind of care available to them and don't take advantage of that kind of care, the cost to the state is astronomical. In children, infants that are born and are low birth weight, are sick and need intensive hospitalization care. The savings can be really of a giant amount of money by providing what amounts to a very small amount of prenatal care, and this is based on the Beethoven Project that now exists in the City of Chicago at Cabrini Green. We're asking the Department to have a pilot project, if you will, at the Taylor Homes at East St. Louis, in Springfield and to report... to keep the statistics and report back to us. If those of you, Representative McCracken, who might have some problem with Amendment #1, if you'll look at Amendment #2, it is a discretionary type program with the Department. We try to take care of the concerns of the Department. If you'll notice, Amendment #1, which was withdrawn, required them to conduct these four pilot projects. Amendment #2 encourages them to conduct these pilot projects, and I'm sure, therefore, Representative, you would like to get on as a hyphenated Cosponsor."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 547. Before we have discussion of that, however, the Chair would like to recognize the Secretary of the State of Illinois, Jim Edgar. Welcome. On Amendment #2 to House Bill 547, Representative Ropp is recognized."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Preston, it sounds exactly like the same 183  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 words that we heard when Representative Currie introduced her Bill. I guess the question... she is attempting to already do what you are trying to set up, a study to find out if we need to be doing. Why do we need this Amendment?"

"Okay. It is, first of all, this is not a study. This is to do it in four new locations. The study has already been done. The effectiveness has been overwhelmingly proved, not just in Illinois, but in other states. But in Illinois, in Chicago, it has already been done through this Beethoven Project and it's effectiveness has been shown to be overwhelming. And when I say effectiveness, I mean in terms of dollars saved to the State of Illinois."

"Yes, but I thought her program was to take care of all of those people who, in fact, are on public aid and need assistance for infants and youth because they are underweight and they are malnourished and everything. It seems like we have already taken care of that problem once. Why do we need this one now?"

"This... this program isn't based on poverty level, Representative, alone. It's based on a target location. Target communities, that have been shown to be needing these kind of programs in order to save dollars to the State and in order to save what amounts to the human evaluation, the human worth itself, the human value in the savings of life and health of low weight newborn babies."

"But those areas that you pointed out, like the Robert Taylor Homes, if those areas, as I understand it, fall in somewhat that poverty area, and it seems like that problem has been addressed by Representative Currie's legislation, and it does not seem that we need to designate four areas if, in fact, we're attempting to deal with all of them under her legislation that's already passed." 184  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Representative, May 20, 1987 it is unrealistic to think that we can deal with all the problems of a lack of prenatal and infant care in Illinois through any legislation that we just passed, whether it be Representative Currie's or mine. What is very clear, is that there are areas of the State that have an overflow number of children who end up dying because they are not cared for properly as fetuses, they are not cared for properly as newborns, and those lives can be saved and those children that otherwise, who survive, but survive unhealthily, can be made healthy by providing a small... you know you've heard a drop of prevention is worth an ounce of cure. That's exactly what this program is. And where do you take that ounce of prevention? You take it to the high target, high need areas, and we're asking the Department to do that in four such sites. The effectiveness has been proven. At the Committee on Children that many of us have been active on, we had Irving Harris and a number of people testify at length about how cost effective this program is, and instead of going statewide, where there are not enough resources to do an effective job, if you start off with the target high risk areas, and we know where those areas are, we can be extremely effective in saving lives and saving dollars. And that's what this Bill asks the Department to do." two

"Well, I understand. It just seems like one of the Bills would take care of the problem and that both of them, at this point in time, do not need supporting, even though we are attempting to do the same thing. I guess a baby in my own county that needs this kind of care ought to be able to qualify just as much as one in these four targeted areas, and I thought that under the Representative Currie's Bill, that public aid was to address all of those kids that needed help for those mothers who are under 18, and I kind 185  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day of think here."

May 20, 1987 that's exactly what you are attempting to do "Representative Preston, that's not a question. Let's move on to the next speaker, the Gentleman from Morgan, Representative Ryder.

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Gentleman yield?"

"He will."

"Representative, prior to this Amendment, this Bill was a mandate. It required the projects. Is that correct?"

"That is correct, Representative."

"With the Amendment it is purely permissive."

"That is correct."

"Okay. And the Department has the sole discretion to do or not to do... or to expand the projects."

"That is correct."

"You've indicated that the Beethoven Project, as they are currently established, has been very successful. I, however, had some concern because I didn't think the Beethoven Project had been in existence that long to prove its value."

"It has been in existence approximately a year. It's necessity... the value of the program is overwhelming, and it has been overwhelmingly acclaimed by national authorities, and I just want to point out the Department of Children and Family Services has withdrawn its objection to this Bill. I'd like, especially Members on the other side of the aisle to underscore that, if Representative McCracken is listening. I hope he understands... "

"Representative Preston, I'm listening and I'll be glad to do that."

"Thank you. Representative Ryder. I wish you would make some Members aware that the Department has withdrawn its objection." 186  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day Ryder:

May 20, 1987 "Would you be specific as to the value. Has it been made in empirical terms?... of the results?" "To some extent, yes. Now, because it's only... the Beethoven Project has been in existence only approximately a year, the final report is not yet in, but in empirical terms and what already has been observed and what has been seen, it is considered to be of tremendous value in reducing future costs to the State. I don't mean in the distant future, I mean immediate future, and in human values, in human terms, it has saved lives."

"To the Amendment, Madam Speaker."

"Proceed."

"Thank you. I would like to reinforce what the Sponsor has just indicated. Prior to this Amendment there was, and by good reason, should have been a down arrow on this item because it was requiring some expenses that we didn't necessarily feel were appropriate. The Beethoven Project has been proved to be a good Bill, to be a good idea and a good project. Because of the cooperation of the Sponsor, he is now withdrawing from the Department of Children and Family Services, the mandate, or the requirement, and simply making it permissive. He makes a good idea and makes it better. The Department of Children and Family Services does not take a position on the Bill. They have removed their position of opposition and, as such, a good idea has become better, and I think we should support the Gentleman's Amendment."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments." 187  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day Speaker Breslin: leave for May 20, 1987 "Third Reading. Representative Preston now asks immediate consideration of House Bill 547 on Third Reading. Are there any objections? Hearing none, the Gentleman has leave. Read the Bill on Third, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 547, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Thank "Representative Preston." you, Hadam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think this Bill has been adequately discussed Second Reading and I'd ask for your 'aye vote." on

"The question is, Shall House Bill 547 pass?" All those in favor vote 'aye", all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 107 voting 'aye", 6 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have taken a lot of time on these Bills and they are important Bills, but let's remember that it took us an hour to discuss the last four Bills, and to the extent we spend time today, we have less time at the end of the week, so let's... let's only say those things that are absolutely necessary and ask those questions that are absolutely necessary for the edification of the Members. Representative McCracken, for what reason do you rise?"

"Just to agree with the Speaker. None of our Bills are on this Call, and we're interested in having all the Bills heard, both sides of the aisle, whether they are on the Special Call or not, and we, as Republicans, are assuring the Body that we want to cooperate in that regard. So, when Friday comes and your Bill isn't called, look to 188  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 the Podium, not to us."

"Representative Preston. The Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing, for what reason do you rise."

"Madam Speaker, I have been in this chamber a number of years and this Session particularly we've been admonished by the Chair to only ask those questions that are pertinent and only to say what is very educational to all the Members of this Body. I wonder if maybe you could put out a memo from the Speaker's Office so that we'd know exactly what fits in to your guidelines. You know, it's a little difficult for us to follow your guidelines. It seems like it's only when you want to move the Bills that those guidelines come into effect. We need a little more of your advice."

"Representative Ewing. my remarks were not intended to be insulting. They were meant for all Members. I'm just trying to move things along as quickly as possible. Representative Preston on House Bill 548."

"House Bill 548, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act relating to the prevention of developmental disabilities. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Flinn, for what reason do you rise?"

"Well, Madam Speaker, I don't want to interrupt Representative Preston, but I do agree with what you had to say a few moments ago. Yesterday Representative Kulas got up and reprimanded the people for talking too long. An hour later I did. Now the Republicans over there, that I get along with just fine normally, as soon as I got through speaking, one of them got up and didn't speak five minutes, but spoke twelve minutes on a Bill, and the Speaker didn't call him to task. Now, I think, unless the Speaker puts on 189  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 the timer and all of us really do what we say we're going to do, we're going to be here and a lot of Bills will die. As far as I'm concerned, I've got some that can die with yours, but I'll help you, if you want me to. I'll get up and talk, too."

"Representative Preston on House Bill 548.

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'd ask leave of the House to bring this Bill back for the purpose of an Amendment. Back to Second Reading."

"The Gentleman asks leave to return House Bill 548 to the Order of Second Reading for purposes of an Amendment. Are there any objections? Hearing none, the Gentleman has leave. Are there any Amendments filed, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representative Preston."

"Representative Preston on Amendment #1."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. What Amendment #1 does is become the Bill. It requires the Department of Mental Health to grant at least one grant to conduct a research project of the various teen suicide prevention programs that have been disseminated throughout the state and are being used by various schools throughout the state, to gauge the effectiveness of those programs and report back with that information."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill 548. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #1 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Representative Hallock, for what reason do you seek recognition? This Amendment has already been adopted, 190  50th Legislative Day Sir." STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987

"Well, I'll speak to the Bill, then."

"Are there any further Amendments. Mr. Clerk?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Preston now asks leave for immediate consideration of House Bill 548, as amended. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, the Gentleman has leave. Read the Bill on Third, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 548, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act relating to the prevention of developmental disabilities. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Preston."

"Thank you. As I indicated, this will have the Department of Mental Health give a research grant to study the various teen suicide prevention programs that exist and to evaluate those programs to determine which demonstrations or programs had a positive impact, which did not have a positive impact. What was the relative impact of programs on the school where it's been used. What components of the school program are most successful, so that we can begin to develop some model for use by other schools. Some body of information for schools that are interested in adopting a program. What we have now is a lot of programs... a lot of schools acting independently and we don't know, because this is a new area, what the effectiveness of their programs are. He need that research... that basic research. Since they are doing it, and since this is a very sensitive area, we want to know what is effective and what, indeed, is not effective."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 548. And on that question the Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Hallock."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?" 191  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"He will."

"My first question is, how did you manage to have so many Bills on the Calendar on the same subject and not have them collapse into one Bill? We Republicans had a lot of good ideas, but they were all urged to be collapsed or defeated. You somehow have the fortitude and the tenacity to get numerous Bills on the same topic and still can persevere. How did that happen?"

"Representative Hallock."

"That's a good question."

"You are to confine your questions and remarks to the substance of the Bill."

"Well, I think I did."

"No, Sir. I don't think you did. Would you wish to speak to the Bill?"

"Well, he shook his head like this, so I guess I got an answer. Regarding the issue itself. I would like to know if your efforts here will be dealt with through one provider who will have agencies around the state, or will you deal with different state providers in all communities as separate entities, or how will this be... how will you... how are you going to proceed on this?"

"Well, first of all, much of that is up to the Department of Mental Health, but what is envisioned is that there be one umbrella provider who... one umbrella grantee, researcher, if you will, who might ask different entities out there to look at different areas."

"Will that provider be based in Rockford, Illinois, probably?"

"That would be up to the Department of Mental Health."

"That would probably be a good suggestion, though, wouldn't it?"

"I think Rockford would be an excellent place to have a 192  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day provider, yes." May 20, 1987

"I guess my question is, I mean, do you have somebody in mind, without being facetious, I mean, do you have somebody in mind that you anticipate might be the likely provider for this?"

"I do not. There are a number of organizations that, if I were asked and if the Department were interested, I could recommend to them that have done excellent jobs on reviewing a number of programs like this, and putting a number of programs into place."

"But it is your intention that the Department itself make that determination."

"Yes. Of course, it is. And this is not a... a patronage ploy for me in any way. I'm just looking for this information. The concern was raised that we have a lot of people that are concerned about the extremely sensitive area of teen suicide. Schools are... and communities are attempting to deal with it, and we don't have the basic knowledge as to whether or not what they are doing is effective or harmful, what's good, what should be emulated and what should not."

"Does... is there any one group in our state that does have the right answers in this area, or is a right answer really almost undefinable?"

"That's a difficult one. We, the people I have spoken to who are knowledgeable, don't know all the right answers. That's why we want the programs studied to see which ones seem to be effective, which ones do not."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Will, Representative Regan."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. Will the Sponsor leave for a question, please?"

"He will." 193  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Representative, program?" May 20, 1987 is this a one year program, a two year

"Representative, by existing law, without this legislation, it is already a five year program. What this legislation does is to put into these grants for research that the Department of Mental Health already gives out, to require one of those grants to review and research and report back on the effectiveness of the teen suicide prevention programs that exist throughout Illinois."

"Well, I think it's a good approach, and I agree with you that experts don't seem to know, so maybe some experience in this area is well taken. I support the Bill."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Parcells."

"Madam Speaker, I have basically two questions. Would the Sponsor yield?"

"He will."

"The first one is more of a curiosity. As to the last three Bills, all came out as a shell, and this was referred to before, and I wondered if you didn't have your legislation in mind at the time or whether this had to be a compromise, or is there some other reason?"

"Representative Parcells. Representative Parcells, the rules provide that you are to speak to the subject matter of the Bill in question. We are not here discussing procedure. Do you wish to speak to the Bill in substance, proceed."

"Alright. I'll ask him that question later, then, privately. I wondered how much is in the budget right now for teen suicide, is in this budget?"

"Last year in the budget there was $500,000.00."

"And would this require any more money for the Department to do this?"

"No. It would not." 194  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"This will be provided for from... May 20, 1987

"This will be provided, assuming that that $500,000.00 is continued this year, this will be as part of it."

"Thank you."

"There being no further discussion, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 548 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 111 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 655, Representative Flowers. Clerk, read the Bill. Representative... excuse me. Representative Parke, for what reason do you rise?"

"Yes. Inadvertently I was in the aisle at the time the vote was taken. I would have voted 'yes', if the record could show that, please."

"Let the record so reflect. Representative Flowers. Mr. Clerk, read the Eill on House 3ill 655."

"House Bill 655, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act creating the Department of Children and Family Services. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Flowers."

"Madam Speaker, I would like to have leave of the House to bring House Bill 655 back for the purpose of an Amendment."

"The Lady asks leave to return this Bill to the Order of Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment. Are there any objections? Hearing none, the Bill is on Second Reading. Are there any Amendments filed, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representatives Flowers and Barnes." 195  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Withdraw, please." May 20, 1987

"Withdraw #1. Are there any further Amendments? Are there any further Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #2 is being offered by Representative Flowers."

"Representative..."

"Withdraw, please."

"Withdraw #2. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3 is being offered by Representative Flowers and Barnes."

"Representative Flowers."

"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #3 creates a demonstration project. The project would establish a model day care program within the school, dealing with high teenage pregnancy, and I would urge the adoption of Amendment #3 to House Bill 655."

"The Lady moves for the adoption of Amendment #3 to House Bill 655, and on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, "Shall Amendment #3 be adopted?" All those in favor say 'aye", those opposed say "no". In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Flowers now asks leave for immediate consideration of House Bill 655, as amended. Are there any objections? Hearing none, the Lady has leave. Read the Bill on Third, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 655, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act creating the Department of Children and Family Services. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Flowers." 196  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987

"I would just urge for the passage of House Bill 655, please."

"The Lady has moved for the passage of House Bill 655, as amended. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 655 pass?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote "no". Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 111 voting 'aye', none voting "no", and none voting 'present". This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 916, Representative Preston. Clerk, read the Bill."

"On page 19 of the Calendar, House Bill 916, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Preston."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This amends the School Code relating to... regarding the teacher shortage in our already existing scholarship program and it expands the program to include individuals who pursue child development, early childhood education programs. There is a great need in Illinois for people who are trained in early childhood development and early childhood education programs. so the scholarships that are awarded should include people who are pursuing graduate and undergraduate and post graduate training in that area of development, because we need those people, and I would ask for your 'aye' vote and be glad to answer any questions."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 916. And on that question, the Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Hallock." 197  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Of course."

"Is this your first Bill?"

"Yes, it is, Representative."

"Well, thank you." May 20, 1987

"Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 916 pass?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 110 voting 'aye', 2 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 1001, Representative Bowman. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1001, a Bill for an Act to provide special support services for handicapped youth. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Bowman."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 1001 establishes an experiment to be run by the State Board of Education in something called Special Use Support Services. It is basically an extended day program for special education kids. It is an effort to reduce placement in residential settings, which as we all know, are quite expensive, and to enhance the development of all handicapped youth. This Bill has the support of the State Board of Education. It came out of Committee with no dissenting votes. I move for its passage."

"The Lady... the Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 1001. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 1001 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted 198  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are... there are 76 voting 'aye', 41 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. The Chair would remind Members that all Bills on the Order of Children will be called on this Special Call. However, we are doing this under special subject matter. So if we pass over your Bill, don't be worried about it. We will get back to you under the subject matter call under Child Protection. The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"That's comforting for the other side of the aisle, Madam Speaker, but we were told that Government Administration and Government Initiatives is where the emphasis would be laid, where there is a more equitable distribution of Bills between the parties."

"I don't know anything about that, Representative McCracken, but I will certainly look into it."

"Will you? Please do."

"House Bill 1723, Representative Currie. Clerk, read the Bill."

"On page 19 of the Calendar, House Bill 1723, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Currie."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Members of the House. This is a fairly simple, straight forward Bill. It provides that in the truant alternative programs, which we established as part of the School Reform Initiative of 1985, that those programs can also... that the funds for those programs can also be used to furnish day care to the children of students who participate in that program. 199  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 There is no fiscal impact to this Bill. It merely makes sure that those programs can be available to women or to young men who have child care responsibilities while they choose to participate in the alternative school program."

"The Lady has moved for the passage of House Bill 1723. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 1723 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 107 voting 'aye', 8 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. The Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 1868, Representative Hannig. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1868, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Currie."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, and Members of the House. This Bill would provide for the opportunity for the State Board of Education to establish pilot projects to develop school curricula that will help youngsters deal with problems of substance use and abuse. The pilot programs will include notions about peer activities and will be targeted to those young people, high school youth, who are especially at risk for developing drug abuse problems. I would appreciate your questions, welcome your support."

"The Lady has moved for the passage of House Bill 1868. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 1868 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 110 voting 'aye', 2 voting 'no', 200  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 and 2 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the subject matter call of Child Protection appears House Bill 93, Representative Curran. Clerk, read the Bill."

"On page 17 of the Calendar, House Bill 93, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act creating the Department of Children and Family Services. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Curran."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen. House Bill 93 amends the Abused and Neglected Child Reporting Act. It requires the Department of Children and Family Services to develop a plan for a two-year voluntary program for training, retraining and education, to report back to us January 1, 1988. It also requires the Department to assess the feasibility of computerizing case work functions and investigative functions in certain regions of the state on a pilot program basis, to report to us on January 1, 1988, and requires the Department to notify certain indicated and unfounded cases of the availability of private social services. I don't think there's any objection to this Bill by anybody, and I ask for a favorable Roll Call."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 93. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 93 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 111 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 97, Representative Curran. Clerk, read the Bill." 201  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DЕЗАТЕ 50th Legislative Day

May 20, 1987 "House Bill 97, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act creating the Department of Children and Family Services. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Curran." "Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This... Madam Speaker, leave to take this Bill back to Second Reading to adopt an Amendment."

"The Gentleman asks leave to return this Bill to the Order of Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection. the Gentleman has leave. Are there any Amendments filed, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment 27... correction, floor amendment #6 being offered by Representative Curran."

"Representative Curran."

"Move to adopt Amendment #6. It puts the Bill in the position we wish to have it in. It adopts a 30:1 case load for follow-up workers, 12:1 for investigative services."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment 06 to House Bill 97. And on that question the Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing."

"I did not hear the explanation of the Amendment."

"The explanation of the Amendment was that it puts the Bill in its final form and then they can debate the Bill on Third Reading. Do you wish to have a further explanation?"

"Will he... will he plan to explain the Bill to us then when he gets to Third Reading?"

"Surely. Representative Curran."

"Move for the adoption of the Amendment. Did you want to talk about it now, Tom, or do you want to talk about it on Third Reading."

"I just want to know... " 202  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

May 20, 1987 "He's agreed to talk about it on Third Reading, so the Gentleman has asked for the adoption of Amendment 06. All those in favor say 'aye', those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?" "Floor Amendment #7, being offered by Representative

Curran."

"Representative Curran."

"Move to withdraw Amendment #7."

"Withdraw #7. Are there any further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Curran now asks leave for immediate consideration of House Bill 97, as amended. Are there any objections? Hearing none, read the Bill on Third, Mr. Clerk, as amended."

"House Bill 97, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act creating the Department of Children and Family Services. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Curran."

"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Representative Ewing, what House Bill 97 now does, as amended, is it moves the Department of Children and Family Services, over a five year period, to adopt a caseload average within a region, within all the regions throughout the state, of 30:1 for child protective services, for child welfare services, that's the caseload, the follow-up caseload, and 12:1 for the investigative caseload. There's some... and the reason for this is that the groups nationally, such as the National Association for Social Workers, the National Association for the Prevention of Child Abuse, have analyzed the ability of a caseworker to handle a caseload, and have determined that the caseload 203  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 ought to be 25:1. We're somewhere around 45:1 in Illinois and what we want to do is move not toe 25:1, which is the national recommendation, over a five year period, but to 30:1 over a five year period."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption... the passage of House Bill 97. And on that question, the Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing."

"Representative... so that basically your Bill now is going to phase in a requirement that the caseload be reduced from around 40 to 30 per caseworker."

"That's right."

"Yes. Now did you tell me there were two different categories, one for child..."

"Yes, there are the follow-up workers and then there are investigators. The investigators are handling about 18 to 20 cases per investigator now. That should drop down to about 12."

"Representative, is this... is this mandated in the law that a caseworker have no more than 30 or an investigator no more than 12?"

"No. We were very careful not to do that. Representative. What we're talking about here is an average caseload per region, and it is not a maximum. There's... Somebody might be carrying 35 or 40, but the average per region, in order to serve the children of the State of Illinois well would be 30:1 for follow-up work."

"The question I have about this, and I have some serious concerns about this legislation, while I think that the objective is laudable, I would imagine that the Department is now aiming towards that now. Why do we have to put it into law?"

"I think the Department would like for us to... I think the Department would probably appreciate having the 204  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 resources to help the children of this state in the way the individual workers there... I think the reason we need to put it in law is we need to hold ourselves to a commitment. We need this year to make a commitment to the abused, neglected, tortured, murdered children of this state. We have to do it. And this doesn't move us all the way to where we should be. It moves us about two-thirds of the way. It doesn't do it all at once. It does it over a period of five years."

"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think what the Sponsor has said is true, but let's look at this. There is a cost, on our estimate on this legislation, of 15 million dollars. Now he may deny that, but Ladies and Gentlemen, there is a major cost to this legislation if we follow it. Now, too often, in the areas like this, such..."

"Representative Ewing."

"Yes. In the area of pensions, that's a good example, we say we're going to do something, and then we don't. This is another example of that. We're going to put it in the law that we're going to reduce the caseload, and we won't do it if we don't have the money. If we do it, it's going to cost us 15 million. I'm saying to you that every year we go through the budgetary process. That's the time for the Department to come in, and for the Budget Committees, the Appropriation Committees to decide how much we can do that year. We look foolish. We look very foolish when we go home and we pass Bills like this and we don't live up to them. Otherwise, if we are going to live up to it, we better plan to put a lot of millions of dollars into this area, and all of you who vote for it, plan to vote for the tax increase. I suggest we vote 'no' on this Bill."

"The Lady from Lake, Representative Frederick. 205  50th Legislative Day Yes."

"Madam STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. While I hate to disagree with my illustrious leader, I think this has been a major problem with DCFS for a long time and I would hope that the phase in is not impossible to reach and that we will reduce the number of cases that we require caseworkers to have and to research, SO I support this Bill. I hope everyone will vote green."

"The Gentleman from Horgan, Representative Ryder. Representative Ryder, do you seek recognition?"

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise in support of this Bill. As a Cosponsor of this Bill, Representative Curran and I have worked very long and hard attempting to fashion what we believe is in the best interests of the Department of Children and Family Services. Let me indicate that there are several ways in which we can get to the approved ratio, some of which are by some common-sensical things. For example, we're going to take a look at the number of calls and cases that are referred, some of which may not need DCFS to handle. Additionally, we're taking a look at the manner in which some of them are handled. Maybe DCFS doesn't need to handle some that they are currently handling. Maybe they are only monitoring those cases, and if that's the situation, and Catholic Charities or Jewish Charities or some other of the private agencies of the State of Illinois are taking a look at them, then this ratio can achieve this point without the kind of expenditures that are being debated. on this Bill. We have passed up some opportunities that may have been far more expensive to do a phase in on what I think is an appropriate priority and expenditure for the State of Illinois. As such, I would indicate that we should support this concept for the kids of the State, for 206  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 the State of Illinois, and for all of our best interests. I would urge an 'aye' vote."

"There being no further discussion, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 97 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 82 voting 'aye', 31 voting 'no' and 2 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 99, Representative Curran. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 99, a Bill for an Act in relationship to child abuse and neglect. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Curran."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 99 is the agreed Bill that came out of the Child Protection Subcommittee and the State Government Committee. In that, House Bill 99 is a rather long Bill. It encompasses the legislation of several legislators, including Representative Bowman, Representative Wojcik, Representative Daley. What the Bill does is, it requires the Department of Children and Family Services to be the single state agency for the planning and coordination of child abuse prevention programs. It requires the Department to contact the victims of child abuse as soon as possible, rather than just looking into the environment of the child. It permits the Department to define by rule the basis for extensions of investigations. It requires the Department to do training programs regarding essential investigative procedures and then the subject matter of Representative Bowman's, Representative Hojcik and Representative Daley's Amendments. And I think there's probably no disagreement on House Bill 99 and I'd ask for 207  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 the favorable Roll Call.

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 99. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 99 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 113 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 378, Representative Rice. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 378, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Rice."

"Madam Speaker, Assembly, this Bill is produced to amend the Criminal Code that creates an offense in contributing to the criminal delinquency of a minor. It provides that any person over 21 years old who has anything to do with a juvenile under 17, that would become involved and would be dealt with as a felony, with the exception of murder, which would be considered a Class X... Class 5 felony... Class 10 felony. Consequently, I ask your support and your vote... favorable vote."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 378. And on that question, the Gentleman from DeKalb, Representative Countryman."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He will yield."

"Representative Rice, I've been here about four years now, and I don't recall you... how many times you presented a Bill. Is this your first Bill?" 208  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"I think the answer to that is yes, Representative Countryman. Do you have any further questions?"

"Thank you. No."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."

"I honestly... I don't know whether, because Representative Rice is so soft-spoken or because I'm deaf, or because there's background noise, but I honestly didn't hear and have no idea what this Bill does at all. Can you explain again what the elements of this new offense are? I agree, one of the problems is we don't have enough crimes in Illinois. We need to double our stocks so we can build two or three more penitentiaries and I'm anxious to help in this process. There's virtually... Representative Cullerton and I both agree that our criminal laws are just short-sighted now and we ought to expand them more, so I just want to see what this new crime is going to be."

"Representative Rice."

"To reiterate, it creates the offense of contributing to the criminal delinquency of a juvenile, provides that any person of the age of 21 and upwards who, with the intent to promote or facilitate the commission of a felony, aids or directs a person under age 17 in the commission of a felony, commits the offense of contributing... contributing to the criminal delinquency of a juvenile and is guilty of a felony one grade higher than the offense committed, except when the offense committed is murder or Class 10 felony. In the case of murder or that Class, the penalty shall be the same as those offense, respectively."

"Okay. Hell, I think, obviously the intention of your legislation, and I'm not being facetious, I understand you are sincere, the intention of the legislation would be to 209  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 address those situations then where you have adults who are using juveniles to commit armed robberies and that sort of thing. Is that right?"

"Basically, we're dealing with drugs, Representative."

"Okay. I guess... I guess one of my questions would be, if the individual has to be guilty, among other things, of soliciting, aiding, abetting, conspiring and SO forth, wouldn't they be guilty under current law as an accomplice anyway?"

"Yes."

"Are you sure you're not downgrading the penalty? Because right now, if you have an adult, or anyone, facilitate, aid and abet the commission of a crime, they are guilty of the crime itself, as an accomplice, and so you could have a situation where somebody that facilitates a Class X or a Class 1 drug offense, who'd be guilty as an accomplice today, and what you are saying by this Bill is that you're guilty of only a Class A misdemeanor if you do that. Is this intended to be cumulative, along with the possibility of a conviction of the underlying offense, or what?"

"It's got to be a felony offense, and it's being treated as one grade higher than the current... than the offense itself. And it is current... "

"Well, I understand that it has to be a felony, but... okay... well, I don't want... I'm certainly not going to be critical of Representative Rice, because I realize he's addressing a serious problem, and I'll vote for the Bill. I think it's well-intended and so forth. I just would want to be concerned and want to make sure that we're not muddying up the criminal justice waters by some legislation that might cause... cause it to be either unfortunately juxtaposed or somehow contrary to existing criminal law. 210  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day You don't think it does that, right?"

"No. I don't, Sir." May 20, 1987

"Okay. I'll vote for the Bill. I think it sounds like a good idea to me."

"The Gentleman from Fulton, Representative Homer."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just rise to support Representative Rice's Bill. I think, to simply clarify what I understand he's trying to do here is that, under current law, if an individual commits what we call an inchoate offense, for example, solicitation, attempt, or conspiracy, that person has committed an offense that's one grade lower than the offense otherwise, if you had committed the offense itself. In other words, an attempted murder is a Class X felony, whereas murder, of course, is penalized at a higher level. What the Gentleman says is where the situation is such that the conspirator or the solicitor is over 21 years of age, and the person that he conspires with or solicits to commit the offense is under the age of 17, that we're going to hold that adult, or that person over 21, to a higher burden and a higher degree of guilt than we are the juvenile who actually goes out and commits the crime, and I think that's a good public policy and I would also note that the Bill is, according to our staff analysis, identical to a Bill from the 84th General Assembly, Senate Bill 970, that passed out of here 106 to 9, 2 voting 'present', 58 to 0 in the Senate, the Bill ended up being vetoed by the Governor, but I think with that overwhelming sentiment from the previous Session, the Gentleman still has a good Bill and we ought to all stand in support of him."

"There being no further discussion, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 378 pass?" All those in favor vote 211  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 114 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 421, Representative Curran. Clerk, read the Bill. Excuse me, Representative Hoffman, for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just wanted to commend Representative Rice and Representative Goforth for their fine service to the people. If the rest of us would follow their example, it would probably be a better place to live."

"A point well taken. Have you completed... Yes, Representative Pullen, for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, I had difficulty with my switch.

"Representative Pullen. Representative Pullen."

"I also have difficulty with my mic, evidently. Would the record please reflect that I would have voted 'aye' on that last Bill?"

"The record shall so reflect."

"Thank you."

"Representative Curran. On House Bill 421."

"Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, point of order. I would just like to bring to the attention... "

"Excuse me... excuse me. Representative Tate was not recognized. Representative Matijevich, for what reason do you rise?"

"Well, in the interest of truth in legislation, this was not Representative Rice's first Bill. He thought someone asked if it is his first Bill this Session, but I 212  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 commend him in doing anything he can to pass a Bill."

"Representative Tate, for what reason did you seek recognition?"

"Just on a point of personal privilege. Based on the current score right now, the Chicago Cubs are no longer in sole possession of first place."

"Mr. Clerk, have you read this Bill a Third Time?"

"No. House Bill 421, a Bill for an Act to amend the Abused and Neglected Child Reporting Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Curran asks leave for this Bill to be returned to the Order of Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment. Does the Gentleman have leave? Hearing no objection, the Gentleman has leave. Are there any Amendments filed, Mr. Clerk."

"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Curran."

"Representative Curran."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Amendment requires the Department of Children and Family Services to study the impact of nonacceptance of anonymous reports of suspected child abuse. Move for the adoption of the Amendment."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill 421. And on that question the Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Hallock."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes, he will."

"The Bill, as originally introduced, dealt with expungment of the record. Does this Bill still do that?"

"It does not."

"Well, then, if the Bill removes the expungment 213  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DЕЗАТЕ 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 procedures in the Bill, what does it do again, please?"

"What the Bill does now, it requires the Department to respond to us by January 1, 1988, what the impact on their responsibilities to serve the children of Illinois would be if they did not accept anonymous reports of child abuse and neglect."

"Well, if I might say so, I respect your right to make the Bill what you want it to be, but I happen to think the Bill was better in the first place, but I'd support the Amendment."

"There being no further discussion, the question is, 'Shall Amendment &l be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Curran now asks leave for immediate consideration of House Bill 421, as amended. Is there any objection? Hearing none, the Gentleman has leave. Read the Bill on Third, as amended, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 421, a Bill for an Act to amend the Abused and Neglected Child Reporting Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Curran."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Briefly, Representative Ryder referred to the impact of this Bill in the discussion about House Bill 97 when he said that it is very possible that some of the work that the Department of Children and Family Services is doing now, and therefore has a high caseload ratio, it would not be required to do if we simply analyzed the incoming calls and determined slightly different ways to 214  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day handle those. May 20, 1987 House Bill 421, therefore, is important. It will get us a report about six or eight months from now, and I think it's worthy of your 'aye" vote."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 421. And on that question is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 421 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 112 voting... 113 voting aye", none voting 'no", none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 473. Representative Slater. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 473, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Civil Procedure. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Slater."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. House Bill 474 (sic - 473) simply allows the invasion of a trust which has been established by another party for purposes of satisfaction of unpaid child support. I move the adoption... or move the passage of House Bill 473."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 473, and on that question is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, Shall House Bill 473 pass? All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 109 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 507, Representative Preston. Clerk, read the Bill." 215  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987

House Bill 507, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Preston."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 507 requires all elementary schools to include in their curriculum instruction to children on how to avoid drug and substance abuse. I'd be glad to answer any questions."

"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 507. And on that question, the Gentleman from Livingson, Representative Ewing."

"Madam Speaker, would the Sponsor yield?"

"He will."

"Does this mandate something to our local schools?"

"Yes, Representative, it does, but there is no cost attached to the mandate. It requires, again, the schools to include in their curriculum instruction to children in each of the years, kindergarten through 8th grade in the elementary schools, prevention programs, teaching them about drug and substance abuse prevention."

"Representative Ewing."

"... Just a moment. There's no... the parents have no consent over this. This is just required."

"That is correct."

"And we start in kindergarten?"

"That is correct."

"We're not going to teach them how to use it, we're just going to teach them about it, is that right?"

"That is correct."

"Why do we start at kindergarten teaching about drugs? I don't think, in most of our schools, our kindergarten children are aware of this problem."

"Well, I'm glad you asked that, Representative. Is is 216  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 in extremely important that we start at an early age rather than the focus of most programs today to intervene after there is already a problem. The programs that I have seen and that I've been involved with start at the elementary school age, and by doing it in that fashion, by teaching children to avoid the problem that may come through drug usage. you... we will end up, indeed, with a drug free generation, and it's very important to start at the earliest possible age SO that they're... children are acclimated to the evils of drug usage."

"Madam Speaker, I think I'd like to speak to... ask another question."

"Proceed."

"Mr. Sponsor. I don't think you've been... that last comment, maybe you haven't been smoking anything."

"Representative Ewing."

"Yes."

"I'm sorry. I didn't hear the comment."

"Never... we'll just cut that out."

"Good."

"How... how... how, Mr. Sponsor, Representative, how are we not going to have any cost if we're going to require this curriculum to be added from kindergarten through high school?"

"Well, there's total flexibility left to the school systems how they will implement this program. For example, a school system Hould meet the mandate by having an assembly and inviting the local law enforcement agency in to speak about the evils of drug usage. It's my hope that much more than that will be done, but we want to leave the school systems the creativity to develop programs that other school systems may emulate because they are better programs than might otherwise be available." 217  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. next three Bills, and I don't want to be redundant, I don't May 20, 1987 The want to get up and speak the next two Bills plus this, on every one of these, but they all mandate something on our schools. Now, if it's as light and as easy as the Sponsor says, then it isn't going to amount to anything. And if it's more and it's going to cost money, we know how our local school people feel about being told everything. Ladies and Gentlemen, call your superintendents, ask them if they want to be told something. Ask them if they want another mandate. I'll betcha they tell you they don't, but I bet these Bills will fly out of here and they are just aren't going to amount to anything and they really irritate our school people. If our school people are so dense, are so dense that they don't know how to put on one of these programs that are no more of a mandate than the Sponsor says. then we ought to take over and run the schools. suggest a 'no' vote." I

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Pullen."

"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I have respect for the Sponsor of this package of Bills and I know that he is sincere in what he is trying to do, but I think that we have to seriously consider co what he really would be accomplishing if we went along with them. Children of kindergarten age, and even first and second grade and probably a little later than that, are just too young to be teaching them about such matters as drug abuse. It isn't right. It isn't good, and despite the Sponsor's excellent intentions, I really hope that we do not go along with this Bill. you." I think that it is dangerous.

Thank Speaker Breslin: "The Gentleman from Sangamon, Representative Curran." 218  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. In response May 20, 1987 to the last comment, I'm sure the Lady is very well intentioned. A couple of weeks ago, Saturday morning, my son, 4 years old... I'm listening to what the cartoons that he's watching for Saturday morning. During those cartoons there comes on apparently a little girl. I didn't see the commercial. And apparently a little girl comes on and she's relating... she's relating what took place with her uncle. She says that she was wrestling with her uncle, coming across the television, now, she's wrestling with her uncle and all of a sudden it felt icky and then Gary Coleman comes on... this is television... Gary Coleman says that if this happens to you, you should report it to somebody. Now, I understand it's not the same subject, but the point is, the point is, that if we can allow that to go across the airwaves, certainly we can handle it in the schools, where we understand what's going on with a specific child, and a specific teacher and a specific school district, and so I rise in support of the Gentleman's Bill. I think it's an excellent idea."

"The Lady from DuPage, Representative Cowlishaw."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield to a question?"

"He will."

"Representative Preston, are you aware of the videotape that was prepared on... at the conference that was held on this...in this House Chamber, Sponsored by the four legislative leaders and many others, I believe it was the 27th of April, on the subject of drug abuse? Are you aware that there was a videotape of that?"

"I am."

"Alright. I would like to point out that if any one 219  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 of us took the time to view that videotape, we would discover that we had some experts from the federal level who brought us some astonishing and very recent statistics about the whole problem of drug abuse. One of those is that, whereas, the average age for first use of drugs used to be the mid teens, I know this is hard to believe, but the average age of first use of drugs in this nation now is 12 1/2 years. The man who was here to reveal these statistics pointed out to US that, in fact, given that fact, if we do not begin programs about good health heal practices, which is really what I think you are talking about here, if we do not begin those programs until the junior, or middle school, we are already way too late. That the time to begin these programs is well before the child reaches the age of 12 1/2. He pointed out a couple of other things. One, that whereas drug use by young people at first was mostly in inner cities, it now pervades the entire population and he also pointed out that, increasingly, the preferred drug is cocaine, and in many cases cocaine in the form that is called 'crack', which is probably as highly addictive in as short a time as anything ever known in the drug field. Representative Preston, I don't like to burden our schools, and you know my feelings about mandates, but the fact is, that this is related to the spread of AIDS. It is related to practically everything that we can ever do to protect the minds of these young people SO they can learn to read, write and compute. I think we can leave it to the discretion of our local school people what kind of approach you take to this subject in kindergarten or first grade, and what approach you take in the fifth grade. One final question. Would the DARE program, with which I am sure you must be familiar, which involves local law enforcement officials, 220  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 would a school district that had the DARE program in place in that school district, would that qualify them to meet this requirement?"

"It certainly would."

"Very good. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Flinn."

"Madam Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman moves the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it, and the previous question is put. Representative Preston to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. This Bill is, in my opinion, the most important Bill, in at least, my child protection package. I have seen these programs. I have seen them done in elementary schools. I brought in some... maybe a thousand children from 25 different elementary schools in my district to a location where we put on a program, a drug awareness drug prevention program. It worked overwhelmingly, as reported by a whole variety of people who fanned out across this audience to ask the children what would you do if somebody offered you drugs. The response ranged from, 'I'd tell a policeman.' to inquiring whether the child looked crazy. 'I'm not crazy. What do you think, I'd take drugs?' Starting at an early age is overwhelmingly important. These programs will give us a drug free generation. If we do nothing else, this important legislation, I hope you'll vote 'aye'."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 507 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this 221  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 question, there are 85 voting 'aye', 29 voting 'no', and 1 voting 'present'. Representative Barger, for what reason do you rise?"

"I was going to explain my vote, but considering I didn't have time, I would like just a moment as a matter of personal privilege to say something which I would have said in debate had I been given the opportunity. I think that our social engineers are doing a very fine job, but it is absolutely impossible to replace a mother, which is a thing these children need at home, instead of the help of the Illinois Legislature. Thank you."

"This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 509, Representative Preston. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 509, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Preston."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 509 relates to the problem that Representative Curran just mentioned. This requires instruction in grades K through 8 on the avoidance of sexual and physical abuse. What alternatives are available to a child if that child finds himself or herself the victim of that type of abuse, the type of programs telling them you shouldn't inform your teacher, inform a parent if a stranger has made attempts at some molestation, and I'd be glad to answer any questions."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 509. And on that question, the Gentleman from McHenry, Representative Klemm. Representative Klemm."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He will." 222  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

May 20, 1987 "Representative Preston, I certainly commend you for your efforts and I support what you are doing, but I still have a concern even though I'm voting green on your Bills. I have a concern about the cost to the local school districts because, again, we're doing some mandates. I think we all agree they're important mandates, and I think you and I share a concern that some of the programs that are in existence aren't working, simply, and we've got to look at new ideas. But what do we do with that... local school districts, many of them still are facing some problems because we haven't had the courage or the money to come up with a new state aid formula for education and that? How can we handle that before this Bill, say, becomes law? What can we do to give them the monies to carry out these programs?"

"Representative, first of all I... I have long appreciated your concern, interest and your always being willing to be open on matters. As to House Bill 509, and the others that have to do with the School Code, they were specifically designed to be cost free if a school district wanted them to be cost free. A school district that had funds to expend could be more creative and use its assets accordingly. Taking this Bill as an example, the mandate that this Bill has can be satisfied by simply having somebody come in and have an assembly for the schools, a one time, once a year assembly, which would really be a free cost operation. Maybe the school nurse could talk to the children about this problem. Now, that's not my hope. My hope is that a school district will put together a very fine program because there's a wealth of information that's available, a wealth of curricula, so one school system might want to emulate the program of another school system." 223  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"If you look... if you look at all the Bills that you've got, it's really more than a one day at the auditorium with one guest speaker, because I know my school districts have done it. When I was president of a board of education, we did things way back when. That's a lot of years ago, but you're asking for more. How can we look at that?"

"Well, what I am... what I am saying is that you can meet the mandate without spending any money. That's not the best way to meet the mandate, I agree with you, but as far... if you have a school district cannot afford the funds, they still will be in the purview of the law by doing it with no cost to them. Now if a school district wants to spend more, of course, they can be more creative and use their assets to spend more."

"Well, we do this all the time on mandates. You know that. It's not going to cost them much, but it really does. Maybe before this Bill leaves the Senate, maybe you can look at something and maybe you can see if we should give the schools some dollars to maybe implement a decent program and not go in half backwards with this. Thank you."

"There being no further discussion, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 509 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 72 voting 'aye', 41 voting 'no', and 2 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 510, Representative Preston. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 510, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Criminal Procedure. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Preston." 224  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 50th Legislative Day

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is my final Bill. Thank you. House Bill 510 has been seen here before. This is the Bill that would permit, for the first time in Illinois, the introduction into evidence of the videotaped testimony, the videotaped statement of the child witness victim of a sexual assault. The Bill twice passed the House and the Senate. He tried to work out, in the past, some problems that the Governor had in his Amendatory Veto. This Bill is in the same posture it was last year when it again passed the House and the Senate and the Governor amendatorily vetoed it. I am, right now, hoping to have a meeting with the Governor to work out problems that he may have. The Bill provides that a... on a motion of the state, a videotaped statement of the child would be made in the presence of a judge, in the presence of the defense counsel and the accused. Any objections to leading questions or other objections would be dealt with by the judge, then that videotape would be introduced at the trial of the defendant, and if, at that time, the defendant wants to... the defense counsel wants to cross-examine the child, that cross-examination would take place by way of closed circuit TV. The purpose of this Bill is to reduce the trauma to the child of going through the court process. ess. Typically, the only witness in these crimes is the child, and the child becomes a victim a second time by the court process because the court procesS is SO intimidating, so frightening to this child, that he or she cannot cooperate, and if he or she does not testify, the bad guy, or the bad woman, the defendant ends up taking a walk and is free to abuse somebody else's children. Texas, that has this type of legislation, and certainly there are a number of states that do, our Bill is... our law is based on the Texas experience. They have found that 225  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 in about 50% of the cases, the defendant, after seeing this videotaped statement, pleads guilty. In those cases the child need not ever be cross-examined because there is a guilty plea that's entered and the child in those 50% of the cases is saved the trauma of cross-examination. On the other hand, the... in all cases, when the videotape is made, there need not be as frequently a telling and retelling of the intimate details of the sexual assault that, today, is necessary. It was stated at some of the hearings that I attended that right now, in the prosecutorical process, a child has to tell and retell all those intimate details some six to twelve separate times to different... in different prosecutors, different investigators. and children can't go through that and a child's parents simply won't let that child go through it. So the accused, who may well have been guilty, ends up taking a walk. I'd be glad to answer any of your questions."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 510. And on that question, the Gentleman from Will, Representative Regan."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and People of the House. I'd like to just say one quick thing, that I need this Bill very badly. I have three young children, two 5 year olds and a 6 year old sodomized. Medical evidence. I've already told this story six and seven and eight times. They're not even anywhere close to a court trial and this story has had to be repeated that many times. Let's get it out of here again, and I've got a meeting, Lee and I, with the Governor, tomorrow."

"The Gentleman from Will, Representative Van Duyne."

"I move the previous question." 226  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"That's not necessary, Representative."

"Well, let me do it anyway, will you?"

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 510... The question is, 'Shall House Bill 510 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'. All those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 110 voting 'aye', 2 voting 'no' and 4 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Ladies and Gentlemen and Representative Preston, I regret to advise you that Representative Preston has one more Bill. Did you say you wanted to table this Bill, Representative? No. It's House Bill 549, Representative Preston. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 549, a Bill for an Act to amend the Juvenile Court Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Preston."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is one of those merely very simple Bills. What House Bill 549 does, is to permit judges to... when a child is in a foster home situation, right now, a judge is able to order certain health care that that child needs, but the statute is not expansive enough to meet certain needs. If a child is in need of a visiting nurse, the present statute does not permit the judge to order, to permit the child to see a visiting nurse or to go to certain types of therapy and that's all this Bill... it simply expands the already existing authority of that judge to order a child in foster or other types of substitute care to have certain medical help."

"The Gentleman moves the passage of House Bill 549. And on that question, the Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Hallock." 227  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"Yes. Hould the Sponsor yield?"

"He will."

"I'd May 20, 1987 like to, as I did on the previous order, repeat my question as to how it was that you kept these Bills from getting squeezed down into one Bill?"

Speaker Breslin "Representative Hallock, as in the previous order, I have to remind you that the rules provide that you must address the subject matter of the Bill on Third Reading. Do you have any substantive questions of the sponsor or would you like to address the Bill?"

"Yes. What... what my... yes, I do. My point is, I guess, this is a special order of Lee Preston Bills and they're all fine Bills, but we on the Republican side had many Bills which were urged to be consolidated or defeated. He didn't have any choice, and unfortunately we lost a lot of good Bills this way. Whereas we've been debating his fine Bills today, all good Bills for the most part, but yet he's had them individually. We didn't have that choice, Madam Speaker, and I don't think it was fair."

"The Gentleman from Lee, Representative Olson."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will.

"Looking at this outstanding piece of legislation, Representative Preston, would the cost be borne by the county in the circuit by which the judge would make this recommendation for medical, dental or surgical procedures? Who would pick up... who would bear the financial burden?"

"Representative, first of all, this Bill doesn't do all those things. Most of what you just said is existing law. This Bill only expands the existing law that permits a judge to send a child to a physician or dental care to include some other appropriate health care providers. And it would be paid for after this becomes law, the same way 228  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 it is today, and I'd be lying to you if I told you I knew exactly how that's done."

"In all probability it would be picked up by an order of the court to the..."

"It would probably be paid...."

"... to the jurisdiction in which the youngster lived."

"It would probably be picked up by the county, that's right. But the additional cost here is very negligible. That's not... it's very negligible. Right now, in fact, it might even be less cost than there is today, because today the judge can't order this child to have visiting nurse services, so the child would be sent to a hospital today on a daily basis, which would be much more expensive."

"Thank you very much."

"There being no further discussion, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 549 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 113 voting 'aye', 2 voting 'no', and 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 679, Representative Black. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 679, a Bill for an Act to amend the Child Care Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Black."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. The secret is that Mr. Preston and I both have mustaches. If you want your Bills called, you're going to have to grow a mustache. Politics has nothing to do with it. House Bill 679 simply tries to address a situation that we find a little difficult in downstate. We are finding some difficulty in finding day care services, particularly in rural areas. 229  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 Now, we're not large enough to have day care centers as you know it, so what the... what this Bill attempts to do is to add a definition of group day care home to the Child Care Act. All we are changing is as follows: the current law says that day care homes are defined as family homes caring for more than three, but less than eight children, for less than 24 hours a day. All this Bill does is to say: a family home which receives more than three, up to a maximum of twelve children. The number includes only the family's natural or adopted children under the age of twelve. Be more than happy to answer any questions. Would urge your favorable consideration of House Bill 679."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 679. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"I'd like to congratulate Representative Black for being the only Republican to sponsor a Bill that actually helps children."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman."

"Well, thank you, Madam Speaker. Actually, the Bill doesn't help children. I stand in opposition to the Bill. The problem is that twelve kids is an awful lot of kids to care for with one caretaker. You've all heard about the old woman who lived in the shoe, she had so many kids she didn't know what to do. Well, the problem is, I don't know how many people in this House have as many as twelve kids, but I suspect that nobody here does, and those of you who have more than one child know how difficult it is to keep track of them all. I really think that, in all deference to the problem that Representative Black is trying to address, and I understand it's a real problem, I think this is the wrong way to go about it, and I would oppose the 230  50th Legislative Day Bill." STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987

"The Gentleman from Morgan, Representative Ryder."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I stand in support of this Bill. The problem that we have downstate is that it's either we're going to have these children cared for by someone that has the competence and the ability to take care of them, or they're latchkey kids. They're not being taken care of by anyone. So to stand up and say twelve is too many is not responsive to the facts that we have downstate. I commend Representative Black on doing something that is positive, that is good, to help take care of these kids. It's a good Bill that addresses a problem that I have in my district, he has in his district, and I strongly urge that we pass the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Sangamon, Representative Curran."

"Thank you. Madam Speaker. I also rise in support of Representative Black's legislation. You see, I don't think twelve kids in a family is that many. My Mom and Dad took care of 13 for an awful long number of years. I know it can be done and I know that when you get to take the children in at 8:00 in the morning and leave them off at 5:00 in the afternoon, you can do it. Representative Black's... but seriously, Representative Black's Bill does address an important downstate problem. I know Representative Bowman probably wouldn't see it that way, but doesn't know how things are in Representative Black's district, or in my district, and I want to commend the Gentleman for a good piece of legislation and rise in support of House Bill 679."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Sutker." 231  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

May 20, 1987 "Madam Speaker, will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"He wil1. "Representative Black, is it your intention in the Bill Sutker: to have only one caretaker in the household providing the service to the twelve children?"

"Representative, a very good question, and as we discussed at some length in Committee, the Department of Children and Family Services will promulgate standards that will have to be met and their standards may very well indicate, as I think they said in that Committee, that no, it will not be just one. But I can't give you an absolute answer to that. Sutker: Black: All I know is the Department has said they will promulgate standards that will certainly satisfy your concerns as well as everybody else's concerns. I'm sorry that I can't give you a definitive answer to your question." "So... so your Bill provides, at this time, that the Department will set forth standards as to the number of people in oversight over the twelve children and there is flexibility in your Bill that that can occur and will occur." "Absolutely, Representative, yes, indeed."

"Well, to the Bill, then... "

"Proceed." Sutker: ... Madam Speaker. This Bill does address a problem. As Representative Black knows, there is concern that it may put a tremendous burden on the caretaker who provides the service to these children, but with the understanding that the Department, which is sensitive to the need of oversight, will promulgate rules which will provide for an additional person or persons. I would support this Bill."

"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Flinn."

"Madam Speaker, I move the previous question." 232  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"The Gentleman moves the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the *ayes' have it, and the main question is put. Representative Black to close."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I think Representative Curran put it in good perspective. We must be very careful that we don't create a problem of latchkey children in our elementary schools in rural areas in our attempt to solve a problem that, I think, we've done. I again would emphasize what Representative Sutker said, the Department will promulgate standards. They have told me, in fact, that standards may very well be more difficult that what we would like to see, but they will set them nonetheless. I ask for your favorable consideration of House Bill 679."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 679 pass?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Representative Satterthwaite, one minute to explain your vote. Representative Satterthwaite, one minute."

"Perhaps the Sponsor can somehow, in explanation of vote, answer the question as to whether the rules that can be promulgated also relate to the ages of the children who will be served in this program. I'm concerned that taking care of twelve one-year olds is significantly different from caring for a variety of ages of children."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson. One minute to explain your vote."

"Well sometimes, when we go back in the district, I guess all the time, we hear from constituents about what the problems of our district are, and Representative Black and I, serving very similar districts, have had, and I 233  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 actually was involved in drafting this legislation with Representative Black to begin with, some constituents who cared, people who want to provide services in rural areas to children, and they care. And this legislation is like more legislation ought to be, and that is responsive to the needs of the people who send us down here. This is good, sound legislation. It makes sense. It in no way endangers the children of the state, and what it means, I think, in the long run, is the ability to provide more services for the children of the state. I join with Representative Black and the others in supporting this Bill and hope that we get a... an affirmative Roll Call."

"Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 95 voting 'aye', 6 voting 'no' and 11 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 726, Representative McNamara. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 726, a Bill for an Act to amend the Intergovernmental Missing Child Recovery Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative McNamara."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 726 authorizes I SEARCH units to conduct programs aimed at preventing children from becoming runaways, and it also authorizes the I SEARCH boards to appoint public members. And this Bill, what it does in reality, is allow a networking of I SEARCH, so that if people can get together, resolve problems, talk about it, it brings in local control as well. It is supported by the Illinois Associations of Chiefs of Police, and I believe also, the State Police. I know of no opposition. I urge its approval." 234  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 726. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 726 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 110 voting 'aye', 2 voting 'no' and 3 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 819, Representative Flowers. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 819, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Flowers."

"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 819 creates the Drug Free School Law within the School Code. It provides for the creation of a State and Local Drug Free School Advisory Committee. It also provides for the establishment of a grant program administered by the State Board of Education, and I would urge your 'aye' vote regarding House Bill 819, please."

"The Lady has moved for the passage of House Bill 819. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House dill 819 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 69 voting 'aye', 45 voting 'no' and 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 946, Representative McNamara. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 946, a Bill for an Act to amend the Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Act. Third Reading of the 235  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day Bill."

"Representative McNamara." May 20, 1987

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. This amends the Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Act and provides for the establishment and maintenance of two statewide toll free telephone numbers by the Department of Alcoholism and Substance Abuse, and it provides that the Department, in conjunction with the establishment of the telephone numbers, produce and actively market television, radio announcements and billboard advertising using the theme Drug Usage Addiction is a Crippling Disease."

"The Gentleman has moved the passage of House Bill 946. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is... the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken, on the Bill."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He will."

"Our information indicates that DASA estimates the cost associated with the implementation of this Bill to be 3.3 million dollars. Is that correct?"

"I believe your information is incorrect. The note, the fiscal note that was filed with the Bill, indicated $265,000.00."

"$265,000.00?"

"That's correct."

"Okay. Thank you."

"Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 946 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 106 voting 'aye", 11 voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the 236  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 973, Representative DeJaegher. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 973, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to the adoption of persons. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative DeJaegher."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Finally. You're going to like me because this is going to be rather brief. House Bill 973 puts into law basically what Rule 333 does. This is a rule that basically, that 973 has been working with. The Department of Children and Family Services is supportive of this Bill. In fact, I know of no opposition to 973 in its present form, and for this, I hope that all of you will be supportive of 973."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 973. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 973 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 116 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 1424, Representative Morrow. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1424, a Bill for an Act to amend the Child Care Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Morrow."

"Thank you, Madam. The House Bill 1424 would require each child care center, maternity center, day care center, and group home to have a person licensed in CPR and the Hemlock (sic - Heimlich) Method. I would urge a 'aye' vote. Thank you." 237  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"The Bill 1424. Gentleman May 20, 1987 has moved the passage of House And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 1424 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 114 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 1469, Representative Curran. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1469, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act relating to family preservation. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Curran. The Gentleman asks leave to return this Bill to the Order of Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, the Gentleman has leave. Are there any Amendments filed, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Curran."

"Representative Curran."

"Madam Speaker. Floor Amendment #2 establishes the Emergency Assistance Fund to be used for the obvious purposes and I move for the adoption of the Amendment, Floor #2."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 1469. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?" 238  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 50th Legislative Day

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Curran. Mr. Clerk, Representative Curran indicates that there should have been an Amendment #1. Would you do a search for Amendment #1, please. Return this Bill to the Order of... does the Gentleman have leave to return the Bill to the Order of Second Reading for the purposes of adopting Amendment #1 which the Clerk's Office overlooked? Hearing no objection, the Gentleman has leave. The Bill is on the Order of Second Reading. Representative Curran is the Sponsor of Amendment #1. Representative Curran."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I had misspoken in the event that we are now working on Floor Amendment #1. Floor Amendment #1 does what I thought Amendment #2 did. It establishes the Emergency Assistance Fund."

"I see. The Gentleman has asked for the adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill 1469. And on that question, the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"Is this aid on an economic need basis?"

"Representative Curran?"

"I'm sorry, will the Sponsor yield?"

"He will."

"Yes. It is."

"And is that defined?"

"It is defined, Tom, as those families which are in economic crisis. It is an Amendment where such assistance is not available through other private or public sources. It's an Amendment brought to us by the Department."

"I'm sorry. I didn't hear that."

"Okay. I'll go it again. This is an Amendment where the definition of the family would be a family which, in an economic crisis and such assistance is not available 239  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 through other public or private sources. It simply establishes that fund."

"In your Amendment #1 it states in part that the Department shall establish administrative rules specifying the criteria for determining eligibility for and the amount and nature of assistance to be provided."

"Correct."

"Okay. Now, how does this differ from the Bill?"

"It simply... this was not in the Bill. This adds it to the Bill. Adds the Emergency Assistance Fund to the Bill."

"Okay. Does this constitute an added expense or cost to implementing the Bill?"

"It does... it does not. We have no funds associated... we have no appropriation associated with this fund, Tom, we're just establishing the fund now in hopes that it..."

"That some day you'll be able to appropriate it?"

"Sure."

"Okay. What would your level of appropriation be, if you were to make one?"

"That would be entirely hypothetical, Tom, I have no reason to pick a number, now, at this point. The Department sometimes finds themselves in need, for example, of giving a family rent so they can stay in a house for a couple more days until the Public Aid check comes, or something like that. It assists families from not being displaced. That's what the intention of the fund would be. And from children not being removed from their families."

"Okay. Are you going to go with Amendment #2 as well?"

"I am."

"Okay. Thank you."

"The question is, *Shall Amendment 01 be 240  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 adopted?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Curran."

Speaker Breslin: "Let the record reflect that while Amendment #2 was already adopted, the Gentleman made an error in the description. So, we will go back to describe Amendment #2 again. Representative Curran. Representative Curran."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the clarification. Amendment #2 phases in the development of the provisions of 1469 over five years and it also establishes clarification about the contracting out for services. I move for the adoption of Amendment #2."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 1469. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none the question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Curran now asks leave for immediate consideration of House Bill 1469 on Third Reading, as amended. Are there any objections? Hearing none, the Gentleman has leave. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk, on Third, as amended."

"House Bill 1469, a Bill for an Act relating to family preservation, amending Acts herein named. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Curran."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 241  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 House. 1469 requires the Department to evaluate whether a child may remain in a home environment with the appropriate preventative or reunification services and to notify families of their entitlement to such services. It requires the Department to accept for such ser services any family whose child is at risk of being placed outside the home, and it permits a juvenile detention hearings testimony regarding the... the efforts to prevent placement of minors. Be glad to answer any Amendments."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 1469. And on that question, the Lady from Kane, Representative Deuchler."

"Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"He will."

"Representative Curran, the printout here that I have from LIS includes a fiscal note for 37 million dollars. Could you specify... you spoke, I believe, in regard to one of the Amendments, that this was going to be phased in. Can you give us an indication, for example, of the first year cost for the program over these five years?"

"Thank you for the question. The way the... the way this legislation is implemented, in the first year it has been agreed by the Department and by the interested parties, that the 3 million dollars that is already in the Department's budget for community based services will be the portion of the budget which applies to the utilization of this Act. So there will be no new money required in FY88 for the implementation of House Bill 1469."

"And the second year of the program?"

"That will be up to the Department to establish rules in conjunction with the Children's Welfare Advisory Committee, which is established in House Bill 99."

"Well, would you anticipate that the scope of the 242  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 program would reach that 37 million dollar figure at some point in the future, or why are we saying... "

"Sure. It could over five years. Yes, it could."

"Thank you."

"The Lady from Lake, Representative Frederick."

"Yes, thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He will.

"Representative Curran, as I understand, the main focus of this Bill is to really preserve the integrity of the family. Is that correct?"

"That's correct."

"And in doing that, are we going to be committed to protect the welfare and the safety of the child above all, even though we do want to return children to their own families as quickly as possible. Do you understand that that's... "

"The welfare and the... as you understand this Bill to mean, the welfare and the safety of the child is our prime concern,... "

"Yes."

"...regardless of whether they are returned to their family or not."

"Thank you very much."

"Thank you."

"I think this is a Bill, Madam Speaker, and I hope that we got enough green votes to pass it."

"The Lady... the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I... I thank Representative Curran for his candor. Apparently this is possible to reach 37 million dollars in cost over five years. It's to be administered by DCFS, setting up an 243  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 emergency assistance fund for the reason that the $500.00 stipend would keep the family together. Nice ideas, pleasant thoughts, good intentions, but 40 million dollars, in order to create this service. I tell you, I'm just lost for words. He've been sitting back here voting with these ideas that sound nice and pretty and now we find ourselves coming up with an idea which is administerd on an economic need basis, but by the Department of Children and Family Services. Why isn't Public Aid doing this? If Public Aid needs 40 million dollars to create the economic safety net, why isn't the 40 million dollars going there? If it is... if it is to go there, then why don't we address that issue as we addressed the authorization Bill? All this Bill does is authorize us to later appropriate 40 million dollars. The fact of the matter is, we should be looking at this Bill not only for what it authorizes us to do, but for what it calls upon us to consider in the future, and that is funding it. Do not abrogate your responsibility to the pocketbook as well as to the merits of this Bill. I understand the Gentleman's concern. He's done an excellent job in this area. He has seen fit to include Republican Cosponsors, but enough is enough. 40 million Dollars, and it's not needed and it cannot be ignored when you consider the issue. Vote 'no'."

"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Flinn. Representative Flinn."

"I move the previous question, Madam Speaker."

"The Gentleman has moved the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes have it. The main question is put. Representative Curran to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 244  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 The House. First to the comments of the last speaker. last speaker seemed to fall under the apprehension that this Bill somehow would be more appropriately handled by the budget of the Department of Public Aid. He's been around here for five years. I'm not sure how you could be that far wrong after you've been around here for five years, but in fact, we're talking about stabilization of families, we're talking about children staying together with their parents, and we're talking about services being entitled to children who are neglected and abused. You know, we fill up our prisons, we fill up our mental health institutions with people who, to a large extent, have been abused as children. It is unconscionable for us to stick our heads in the sand any longer on this kind of an issue. Let me tell you, when Representative McCracken referred to the work that has been done on this legislation, let me tell you who some of the people that we worked with. He worked with the Child Care Association, they are in favor of this legislation. He worked with the Catholic Conference of Illinois. They are in favor of this legislation. We worked with the National Association for the Prevention of Child Abuse. They are in favor of this legislation. He worked with Action for Children in Illinois. They are in favor of this legislation. And Voices for Children and the Children's Defense Fund and the Department of Children and the Governor's Office is in favor of this legislation. I move for a favorable vote on House Bill 1469."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1469 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Representative Parcells, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I commend the Sponsor of 245  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 this Bill for the hard work he's done, but this one has too big a price tag. It says this gives us the authorization to later spend this money, but remember this is an entitlement. That means they are entitled and you'll have to authorize it later. I suggest a "no" vote."

"Representative Peterson, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Madam Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. We've been doing an awful lot of things today on behalf of the family and preservation and all that. I have a kind of a sinking feeling about this kind of legislation. There's a downside on it, I'm afraid. What we're really talking about in many instances, I think, is major intervention by big brother into the family."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman, one minute to explain your vote. Remember, this Bill has 68 votes, Sir."

"Well. Right. Just to say that it's a big price tag, but it's a big problem. If it weren't such a big problem, then maybe we could get off cheap. But it is a big problem. We need to deal with it."

"Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 69 voting 'aye', 43 voting 'no' and 5 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 1546, Representative Braun. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1546, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to employer discrimination against child caseworkers. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Braun."

"Representative Ryder."

"Representative Ryder, to present House Bill 246  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day 1546." May 20, 1987

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill allows, or requires, that those who observe violations of child care laws, those who are employees of those who provide child care and observe violations of those laws, now, no longer, under the provisions of this Bill, have to fear for their employment. Simply stated, a person may not be dismissed because they brought to the attention of the appropriate authority violations of law while in the employment of the person or organization that cause the problems. It's commonly known as a Whistleblower Act. It is a good piece of legislation without a price tag and I would ask for a favorable vote."

Speaker Breslin: "Representative Ryder has moved for the passage of House Bill 1546. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none. the question is, Shall House Bill 1546 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye, all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 116 voting 'aye, none voting "no" and 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 1569, Representative Petka. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1569, a Bill for an Act to amend the Juvenile Court Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Petka. Is this your first Bill, Sir?"

Representative Petka. Petka: "I was able to sneak one through on the Consent Calendar, so I guess you can put an asterisk next to this one."

"Oh, this is an important one. Proceed, Sir."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Members of the House. House Bill 1569 is an attempt to conserve some of our resources 247  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 in the juvenile court system. The hope here is to place the term 'neglected minor' to place the minor whose environment is injurious to his or her welfare, in a neglected status as opposed to an abused status. Our Juvenile Assistant in Will County suggested that there are instances where parents who are respondents in Juvenile Court are often willing to admit that the environment that their children are...they are providing their children is injurious, but they refuse to admit to the Juvenile Court Petition because they don't want to be referred to as abuse parents. I think the change here may be semantical, but it will be certainly a type of legislation which would permit the Juvenile Court System to function much more expeditiously, so I... "

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 1569. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"Yes. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He will."

"Yes."

"So the key to understanding what the Bill does, then, is to understand the difference between how the court treats an abused minor as opposed to how they treat a neglected minor. Is that correct?"

"That is correct."

"And how does... the current law treats them as an abused minor and you propose that it be changed so that they'll be treated as a neglected minor, is that correct?"

"That is correct."

"So then what is the difference, then, between how the courts treat an abused minor and a neglected minor?"

"The procedures and dispositions which are available, Representative, are basically the same; however, we're 248  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 talking about degrees. Some of the types of abuse that we... where parents would basically be admitting to would be abuse that would deal with torture, with sexual abuse, and rather serious type of ominous criminal actions against individuals, the minors. In an environment who's... when we're talking about an environment whose...may be injurious to that particular minor, it may be something which is totally nonrelated to that. What I'm suggesting is, by taking out from the abuse category and placing it under neglect, we may have a great deal more respondents in Juvenile Court being willing to stipulate to Juvenile Court Petitions which will, basically, expedite the process without, basically... "

"In other words, you think because they have been branded a 'neglected minor', rather than the more offensive 'abused minor', that perhaps they might be more inclined to... to do what?... to... "

"To admit to the Petition as opposed to forcing a trial and being, as you say, branded an 'abused parent'... or abusing parent."

"I see. Well, I don't recall you having presented a Bill before, is that correct?"

"As I indicated to the... Madam Speaker, I have not been... on my feet to present a Bill. However, I did have one slip through on the Consent Calendar, so we can place an asterisk next to this one."

"Well, you're definitely throwing me off. Your previous reputation is just not... is one thing, but these look like good Bills. I don't know what to... I can't say anything against this. Other than the fact that it's his first Bill."

"That's fine. That's fine, then. The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1569 pass?' All those in favor vote 249  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no". May 20, 1987 Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? First Bill. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 116 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 1969, Representative Ryder. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 1969, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to establish training requirements for child welfare workers. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Ryder."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. As of this point, the Department of Children and Family Services does not have a mandated training program. DCFS has been in the process of formulating such approved program during the past year, and this Bill, as now amended. is that program. I would ask for a favorable vote."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 1969. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, *Shall House Bill 1969 pass?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 115 voting... 115 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', and none voting present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 2559, Representative Barnes. Clerk, read the Bill.

"House Bill 2559, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unified Code of Corrections. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Barnes."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 250  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 50th Legislative Day House. House Bill 2559 is a product of the Conference of Women Legislators. We have had a lot of testimony and debate on this subject, and as a result, we are asking that the Uniform Code of Corrections be amended to provide a prerelease mother and child reunification program to begin six months prior to the inmate's expected date of release, and continue for six months after release. And this... this affects some of the women that are incarcerated in Dwight, and also some of the women that are incarcerated further downstate in Logan. I would appreciate an 'aye' vote."

"The Lady has moved for the passage of House Bill 2559. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 2559 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 113 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are now going to change the Order of Business, having finished the Order on Children. We're going to House Bills Third Reading, Government Administration, Special Order of Business, appearing on page 4 on your Calendar. The first Bill is House Bill 715, Representative Van Duyne. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 715, a Bill for an Act to amend the Public Utilities Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative McCracken, for what reason do you rise?"

"Speaker, you said we were going back to House Bills Third Reading, Government Administration. Have the previous three Bills before 715 been taken out of the 251  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 record, or if they've passed, or where are they?"

"Sir, that was where we stopped and this is the next Bill. 715 is the next Bill on that Order."

"That's fine. I don't... I don't mind. I was just curious."

"That's the reason. Representative Van Duyne."

"Thank you. Representative McCracken, there is no one in the room more surprised than me. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 715 started out to be a little Bill to help our senior citizens under the Senior Citizens' Act or people who are under 14,000 dollars to get the biggest bang for their buck for their heating bills. But, since that time, it has obtained to a greater stature, and now with the Amendment of Representative Mulcahey and Representative Rea and other people, it addresses the elected Commerce Commission. It's a very important thing to us as far as the residents of the State of Illinois in that the situation is rapidly getting to be one of our very life's blood through finance to pay our utility bills. In the past ten years, our utility rates have gone up at least double, in some cases triple, and beyond our ability to pay them. It's believed by many that the appointment of members of the Illinois Commerce Commission has contributed greatly to that unaffordable situation. We, the Sponsors of House Bill 715 and its Amendments, believe that the case has been made by the Citizens' Utility Board as well as many of the states in our union that an elected Commerce Commission membership is more conducive to greater concerns of the ratepayers. In fact, it's been documented that in most... a lot of our states, eleven to be exact, that the people enjoy a significantly less cost for their utilities. Also, the fact that the Illinois Political Action Committee states that after a 1981 study, that these rates average 11 252  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 percent less than the states who have appointed members. In 1982, the University of Arkansas had another study which confirmed this, that elected members allow lower rates of increase as well as not allowing the companies... the money for construction as ... its cost in advance. Elected members tend to force the company to achieve a higher degree of efficiency and that is basically what House Bill 715 does, or at least, it seeks to achieve. He believe, especially at this time, when the Commonwealth Edison and others are seeking another gigantic raise every year for the next five years that the Bill's time has come. Now, there are others, and I don't want to take the time of the House to go on with my dissertation, because there are a number of other people who want to address this. Namely, I presume Representative Mulcahey and Representative Rea and others, and so, I will stop right there and allow them to address the problem... the Bill."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 715. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Piel."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield for a couple of questions?"

"He will."

"Representative, you mentioned an elected Commerce Commission. How many Commissioners are going to be under your proposal - would be under this Bill?"

"Representative Van Duyne? Representative Van Duyne, to answer the question."

"Yes, there will be two members elected from Chicago and one from Cook County, one from the Second, Third, Fourth and Fifth Judicial Districts, and I believe that makes a total of seven."

"So basically, then, what you're saying is this... let me 253  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 ask you this. In your opinion, is this fair representation of all the ratepayers in the State of Illinois?"

"The Bill, through the Amendment, is designed to reflect the geographical as well as the population, not so much the population as it is the geographical location of our Supreme Court Judges. Now, there has been contentions made by one of the Members on your side of the aisle that there is an imbalance in the Supreme Court Justices, but we take the position that that imbalance is not really improper in the sense that if it were that improper, that there would be already a challenge made to the Judicial Districts."

"Okay, so basically... basically what..."

"So... what we feel... we feel that it fairly represents the one man/one vote concept."

"So basically, what you're saying, with two from the City of Chicago, technically speaking, many times when we hear the elected Commerce Commission we come back with the comment that an elected Commerce Commission- which I don't necessarily agree with their arguments as far as a viable argument for an elected Commerce Commission- an elected Commerce Commission would help the poor people in the City of Chicago. So in other words, you're saying that for the entire City of Chicago, you're offering two Commissioners. Correct? Just answer my question 'yes' or 'no'. There's two for the City of Chicago. Thank you. Thank you."

"That's basic... basically..."

"So basically, what we're sitting here and saying is, there's two for the City of Chicago, so that would... each one would equal approximately one million five, and you've got one for suburban Cook, so that would be one Commissioner for two million four. I don't exactly figure out where you come up with your breakdown, there, but... 254  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 That's not a question, it's a comment, Representative. So, you're coming up with a figure of... one Commissioner for suburban Cook, which is, as I say, two million, two million four, somewhere in that area there, and you've got one for one million five in the City of Chicago. Let's move to another part of the Bill. The original Bill, your Amendment now incorporates that with the original Bill, and that deals with people 65 years or older. Correct? Okay. For the record, you should have said 'yes'."

"For the record... For the record, yes, that's right."

"Okay. Now, would you explain what that does?"

"We have a existing situation through the Federal Government where they do have energy audits made by the appropriate people to find out whether or not our citizens are getting, as I use the vernacular, the biggest bang for their buck. In other words, whether the heat is going out the sides of the house, through the roof or whatever, and it does... it does say that the companies pay into the fund which finances the energy audit, and that's back in the Bill."

"Okay, the energy audit's back in the Bill. What is the approximate cost per energy audit?"

"It has been reputed somewhere between 15 and 70 dollars. We take the view that it's 15 dollars... as more appropriate."

"Alright, 15 to 70 dollars, so anywhere in between the two. Approximately how many senior citizen households do we have in the State of Illinois?"

"Fifteen thousand."

"Fifteen thousand. Where did you come up with that figure, fifteen thousand senior citizen... no. You're trying to tell me there's fifteen thousand senior citizen households in the State of Illinois?" 255  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

"No, I'm not telling you anything. I'm saying... I'm saying strike that. We don't have that... that... available."

"Our recorder, by the way, doesn't pick up sign language, so if you'd mind answering. What... Alright... How many homes are there for senior citizens, or how many senior citizens own homes in the State of Illinois? I mean, we've got to find out what this is going to cost the ratepayers in the State of Illinois."

"Well, we have... we did not attack this on an accumulative basis. The subject has never been brought up in terms of total concept. They did go through it as per capita or per family or per unit, and it's been ranging anywhere... the staff tells me it's more... closer to 50 dollars."

"I'm sorry. What? It's closer to what?"

"I'm sorry. I said we don't know, but I'm sorry, I embellished on the question."

"So in other words, you can't answer how many... you're sitting here saying that it's going to cost anywhere from 15 to 70 dollars per audit for a home that contains a senior citizen, but you can't tell me: one, how many senior citizens we have that own homes in the State of Illinois: and two, you've got it in the Bill that the rate payers are going to pay it. You can say... these public utilities, but, LeRoy, I hate to tell you, you and I pay rates to the public utilities, and if it's a situation that those public utilities are going to end up raising their cost, you and I as ratepayers, our rates are going to go up. Correct? Or where is the money going to come from?"

"Conceivably, it does, yes."

"So in other words, what you're saying is that..."

"But there... I can't give you the proper name for the 256  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 fund, but there is a fund established for that very purpose, and... "

"Each utility has this fund?"

"And until you brought up the subject, it has been deemed enough."

"Each utility has this fund for these audits?"

"Representative Piel. Representative Piel, your time is up. Hould you bring your remarks to a close, please?"

"Madam Speaker, I would wonder if I... somebody on our side of the aisle would yield their time to me."

"Representative Stephens has indicated he would yield his time to you. Proceed."

"Thank you, Representative. Would you answer my question now, Representative Van Duyne?"

"Would you restate the question, please?"

"I'm asking you why you made the comment that they have funds to cover this. I would like to know, do every public utility..."

"Mr. Piel. Representative Piel, I do not have... "

"LeRoy, this is three times that you've made comments."

"I do not have the information right here at my disposal, but in my investigation and the background of the Bill, I am sure that there is a fund established for these through the companies themselves, and you are right... "

"Of course, you're guessing... you're guessing that there's this fund."

"And you are right when you say that it would be conceivably put into the rate base, that the companies would have to pay this, and therefore they would probably say, justifiably, that we have to get more money in order to pay these... "

"You're guessing, then, that there's a fund. You're hoping 257  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day that there's a fund." May 20, 1987

"No, I'm not. No, I'm not."

"Because otherwise, you and I, as ratepayers, are going to Right?" was established for end up paying higher utility rates.

"I am not saying that the fund this particular Bill. I am trying to tailor the Bill to tap that fund. It's a... "

"Well, you know, I could understand if you were having problems with the amendment that you put on for the elected Commerce Commission and didn't understand that, but you are the Sponsor of the Bill, and this is the original Bill that I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the amendment dealing with the elected Commerce Commission. Let's go back to the elected Commerce Commission for a couple of Alright, the elected quick seconds, here. Commission. How many states now have them?" Van Duyne:

"Eleven." Commerce "Eleven. Has there been a remarkable rate of decrease in. utility rates in these states?"

"The material that I have states that both numbers are exactly the same. There are eleven states that have it, and the overall rates are eleven percent lower than the ones that have appointed members."

"So, in other words, what you want to basically do, it's not necessarily, and I hear this big argument many, many times, that the elected Commerce Commission will bring down rates for utilities. So, it's not basically that, but what you want to do is make the Commerce Commission political. If you make it elected, you're making it political." Van Duyne: responsible to the "We want... We want to make the people on the Illinois Commerce erce Commission responsive and people, so that the people have direct recour se to these people. We feel, and we always have felt, that when you 258  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 are appointed, you are only responsible and responsive to the man that appoints you. We want this man, if I can coin the phrase that way, to be the people. We have tried to put this in as much... in a proper form that... as a one man federal vote... the federal ruling that it has to be one man/one vote."

"Okay."

"And we felt that the Judicial Districts were..."

"I've only got two more minutes, LeRoy. Cut it short."

"The Judicial Districts were responsive to that."

"Okay. Couple... couple other fine points. Of these states that, where the utility rates have been dropped or held continually, have there been any legal proceedings in these states against the Commerce Commission of that state by the utilities?"

"Well, I always tell my kids that I didn't get to be my age by skipping 20 years, so I'm going to apply that logic to your question, and wherever the rates have dropped or wherever the rate increases have been denied, I presume that the companies would have engaged in some kind of action to try to.."

"You're presuming. In other words, you don't know the answer for sure. Okay."

"Well, you're asking me the question. All I can do is answer."

"Okay. If... If they have, what type of... what type of verdict has been turned down by the courts?"

"I don't even know what you mean."

"To the Bill, Madam Speaker."

"Proceed."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, before you cast an 'aye' vote on this Bill, I hope that you've been listening to the, somewhat, dialogue between the two of us. Just to bring up 259  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 one final point. First of all, he even stated that whether they are appointed or whether they are elected is not making a difference on utility rates. Time and time again, the people state that they have to have an elected Commerce Commission to lower utility rates. I would like to make two points. One elected Commerce Commission, one, makes it political and does not lower the utility rates, and in the states to where the Commerce Commission has been not receptive one bit, in other words, they've gone in and they've said, "He will not allow any type of rate increases, we will not listen to you at all." They have gone to court. One hundred percent of the time, no case has ever been overturned by the court. The court has ruled with the utility one hundred percent of the time..."

"Bring your remarks to a close, Sir."

"Thank you. One hundred percent of the time that the utilities have been found to be justifiable in their process. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a process. It's not a willy-nilly process. For a rate increase or decrease to go through, it's not something that happens overnight. I think the process... It needs to be fine tuned. We do have problems. I'm not saying there are no problems with it."

"Complete your sentence, Sir."

"When we go into an elected Commerce Commission, it's opening up a Pandora's box, and I would ask for a 'no' vote on House Bill 17... 715."

"The Gentleman from Franklin, Representative Rea. Representative Greiman in the Chair."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. For more than 15 years in Illinois, the electric and natural gas costs have been on a steady increase, and it seems that nothing that the consumers have tried to do have 260  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 really slowed down the rate of energy price increases, and there seems to be no immediate end to the escalating utility costs. At the... In fact, as we look at the costs of utilities, all classes of customers, residential, industrial, commercial, paid much lower rates in states with elected Commissions than they did in Illinois. Now, rates for residential consumers averaged 24.4 percent more in Illinois than they did in states with elected regulatory bodies. Illinois commercial customer rates were 24.3 percent higher, and industrial rates 18.6 percent higher... (tape malfunction) than the elected Commission states. On a whole, states in... in states where the appointed bodies were 14.8 percent higher for residential, 13.7 percent for commercial, and 17.1 higher for industrial customers than in states with elected Commissions. There are 11 states that do have the elected Commission, and in those states the utility rates on the average are at 11 percent lower. We believe that the elected Commission will make the Commission Members more accessible, more responsive, and actually will have an opportunity that way to base their decisions more based upon the needs than what they are presently doing. At the present time, there is not accountability. They are appointed, but then they do not have to really account to anybody. As I look at the residential rates in terms of 500 kilowatt hours in our neighboring states, I first look at Illinois, and it's $44.88. I look at our neighboring states of Indiana, 42.19; Ohio, 42... no, Wisconsin, 35.82; Kentucky, 31.96; Iowa, 43.55; Missouri, 37.78. Illinois is the highest of all of those states. I think that it's time for a change here in Illinois. I think it's time that the people have spoken, and they have said that they would like to have an elected Commission. I feel that this Bill is a good Bill. 261  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 It provides for geographic representation, also, which is very important. because this means, then, that the Commission members will be accessible. It means that they will be in all parts of the state. It means that we will have access to them. It means that input can be made into the process, and as a result, I think that this is a good government Bill, and there is a need for an elected Commerce Commission. I would ask for your support on this important Bill."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Mr. Sponsor, Mr. Sponsor. Where... where do the... where are the lowest residential rates... where do the lowest residential rates in the country... where are the residential rates in the country that are the lowest in effect?"

"If I can answer you in a... sort of an awkward form, I will just tell you that we are not concerned. We would be very interested in finding that out, but the fact of the matter is that we are one of the highest, if not the highest, and that's what concerns us."

"Hould you be surprised to find out that the lowest rates... the lowest residential rates exist in Idaho, Oregon and Washington? Would you be surprised to find that out? No, I can tell. You're not surprised. You're not surprised. It might surprise you to know, however, that all three of those states have appointed Commissions. You're suggesting that the way a Commerce Commission is structured is going to have some impact on the rates. The truth of the matter is that other factors, other factors besides whether the Commerce Commission is elected or appointed, affect what happens to the rates, and regardless 262  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day of whether they're elected or appointed, if they are responsible individuals, they have to take a look at the evidence and make some choices. Those choices were made by elected and appointed Commissions across the country on the basis of the evidence and the circumstances that exist, not the method in which they were chosen. However, in one of the states that has an elected Commerce Commission, they don't even make a decision. Everything ends up in the court, and the Judge makes the decision, and in that state, in that state, practically all of the cases taken to court are won on their face by the utilities that are requesting the rate increase against their... against their particular cost. The truth of the matter is, Ladies and Gentlemen, if you'll look at the history of the Commerce Commission in Illinois under both parties, under Republican and under Democrat Governors, the decision to place people..."

"Bring your remarks to a close, Sir."

"... Decision to make those appointments have been done in the best interest of the general public, and I rise in opposition to this... to the Gentleman's legislation."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I hesitate to rise because I know we all know how we're going to vote, but I want to remind everybody to let you know how the people want you to vote, and I rise in total support of LeRoy Van Duyne's Bill as it is now amended to have an elected Commerce Commission. The issue is, are you or are the people happy with the Illinois Commerce Commission? And I think there is a resounding 'no' to that. I've often heard it said on the floor of this House, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.' Now, you ask the people who you represent if they think the Illinois Commerce Commission isn't broke. If it isn't broke, it is seriously damaged. 263  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 ought to do to the Illinois Commerce Commission - pass this out of here, pass it out of the Senate, put it on the Governor's desk, and then let's see if they have a rate increase."

"The Gentleman from Tazewell, Mr. Ackerman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The information that CUB put out on the U.S. rankings does not show any correlation between elected and appointed Commerce Commissions, rather, it shows the main differential is caused by the proximity to their power supply and type of power used, such as hydroelectric versus nuclear or coal. The main result of an elected Commerce Commission would be to shift rates and further erode the Illinois business climate. I don't believe the business climate deserves this kind of a blow at this time. The other effect, I'm afraid, would be creating a bunch of Pat clone... Pat Quinn clones running around the state, running for this Commerce Commission, and I certainly don't think we need that. I oppose this Bill."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Mulcahey."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Hembers of the House. Notwithstanding Pat Quinn, ever since 1975 when I came to this General Assembly, I have been trying to do something as far as the Illinois Commerce Commission is concerned. About five years after that, I was burned out for a couple of years, but we picked up and we continued all over again. You know, the greatest pain to human nature is the pain of a new idea, and this, indeed, is a new idea, and I think it's a new idea that's going to work. If you look at some of the statistics, rate increases granted Illinois gas and electric utilities totalled 3.9 billion dollars from 1977 through 1985, the years that I've tried to go to an elected Commerce Commission. In 1985, Illinois energy utilities 265  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 You ask the people in your district whether they believe the last 10 years with the highest increases in utility rates in the history of Illinois means that they think the Illinois Commerce Commission is operating effectively, efficiently, and mainly, are they operating fairly. And you ask the people in your district if they believe that when members of the Illinois Commerce Commission or people in high staff positions, when they leave the Commerce Commission, they strangely become employed in the public utilities. If that isn't an indication of how the Illinois Commerce Commission has weighed in favor of the public utilities, and if they think that that's fair. And I also said on Second Reading, if no other reason than to give the message to the Illinois Commerce Commission that they haven't been operating fairly to the consumers, that we ought to give them that message, because we have been taking away some powers from the Citizens Utility Board. It's the only thing we have going for us, and surely, we've got to, now, show that message again. And I alluded also on Second Reading, to the present rate proposal before the Commerce Commission. You know, somebody this morning talked about the CUBs and said something about the 'June Swoon'. Well, let me tell you, we adjourn this House very often on June 30th, and the 'July Surprise' is a rate increase. They wait until the first week in July, when they render a rate increase. That is the surprise to the ratepayers. Now, there is pending, right now, you know, that five year, what they call a rate freeze, but it's going to be a rate increase for the next five years. It isn't such a big deal, and you know, there are some states, because of the windfall in the Federal Tax Reform Act, that are reducing rates. Here in Illinois, we're going to get a rate increase. Big surprise. Well, I'll tell you what we 264  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 received an average of 92.5 percent of their requested increases from the Illinois Commerce Commission. No accountability whatsoever, at least on paper. National energy utilities received only 38 percent of their request. In 1985, one out of every four dollars granted 26 percent in energy utility rate hikes in the country were passed on to Illinois ratepayers. And finally, in 1985, Illinois electric rates ranked the highest here in the Midwest. This may not, indeed, be a perfect idea, but I think it's time for a change. There are people such as my parents and your parents around this country who have been taught all of their life that you pay your bills before you go to the grocery store and before you buy food, and the people of this State who are on pensions, who are on fixed incomes and who can't help themselves, not because they don't want to, but because they can't, are the ones who are being stuck with these ridiculously high rates. They put you on summer programs and they take you off summer programs. They put you on time payments and they take you off time payments, and they think they're doing you a favor. They're not doing you a favor. And as Representative Matijevich pointed out, indeed, the people of the State of Illinois want to go to an elected Commerce Commission. They've been... They've been robbed long enough with the present system we have. It's time for a change, and it's time for a change now, and I ask you to vote aye on this particular Bill. We've been working for a long, long time. Let's stand up and represent those 100,000 people that we represent in Springfield, and adhere to their wishes. Let's vote 'yes' on this Bill."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Mr. Johnson."

"I might need to have a deferral on time here, so I guess I'll do that after five minutes. Representative Van 266  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 Duyne, how many of the Members of the Commerce Commission can you name for me? Can you name all the Members of the Commerce Commission? Do you know them?"

"I don't even think that's relevant to the issue. It doesn't... their product that they put out is more relevant than their names. Can you name them, by the way?"

"Do you know... How many of the six candidates for the Board of Trustees in the last election can you name for me?"

"You know, Mr. Speaker... Mr. Speaker."

"Let me... Let me ask you in addition... obviously, you don't know... tell me what the factors that go into the determination by the Illinois Commerce Commission of a rate increase are now. What statutory and administrative factors does the Commerce Commission have to consider in determining whether to grant or not grant rate increases or to modify it, and if those factors are whatever they are, does this Bill of yours, in addition to making the Commerce Commission elective, change the factors that go into the determination of rate increases?"

"None whatsoever. It just changes their conscience and who they have to be responsive to. When I have to go back and talk to the Governor, I have to listen to him, and when I have to go stand for reelection, I don't care what the Governor thinks, I worry about what my people back home, and you should be doing the same thing, and I'm sure you do."

"You're concerned, are you not, just as a general proposition about maximizing the responsiveness of the... of the political system... or the governmental system to the will of the people. Isn't that right?"

"That's right."

"And you want to maximize in every case, don't you, the 267  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 amount of input that the citizens have in the various decisions we make at all levels of government. Is that right?"

"I think that would be desirable, yes."

"Why is it that on page 29 and 30 of House Bill 2034, you offered an Amendment, that I guess was adopted, that would remove the ability of the people to vote on Port Authority expansion, construction, development, and so forth. Take away the referendum rights. Why did you do that?"

"I don't even know what you're talking about, but it has no bearing on... "

"Well, I'll tell you specifically what I'm talking about is, Amendment #3... "

"Alright. Mr. Johnson and Mr. Van Duyne. Mr. Johnson put the question, and Mr. Van Duyne has the opportunity to answer the question. Mr. Van Duyne. Is there a question pending, Mr. Johnson? Mr. Johnson."

"The question was... he didn't know what I was referring to, so I want to elaborate on the question."

"Put the question, Sir."

"My point is that amendment #3 to House Bill 2034 on pages 29 and 30, that amendment that's sponsored by the Sponsor of this Bill would remove the ability of the voters to vote in a referendum on construction, development and so forth, of the Port Authority in Joliet. Why do you want to do that?"

"Mr. Speaker, that has no bearing on this Bill."

"It has to do... "

"And the... "

"It has to do... "

"And the Members of this Body have been admonished by... " 268  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day

May 20, 1987 "Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, with the intention of the Sponsor...

12 Speaker Greiman: "Excuse me. Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson."

"Yes."

"And the Members of this Body have been admonished by...

"Excuse me, Mr. Van Duyne. Mr. Johnson, you asked a question. Mr. Van Duyne is responding. Now, you may not enjoy his response, but let's listen to what he says."

"Oh, I enjoy it a lot. I'd like to hear it further."

"Alright. And it doesn't have to be one that you like. Mr. Van Duyne for a response."

"By the way, for his satisfaction, that Bill... that Amendment was withdrawn by me."

"Well, you offered it."

"So it's not... And it has nothing to do with this Bill."

"Okay, let me ask further, then. Does this Bill have anything to do, Representative Van Duyne, with changing in anyway, the qualifications that are necessary before somebody can serve on the Commerce Commission?"

"Yes, they must be elected."

"Well, aside from the fact that they're elected, does it change the necessity of background, education, experience..."

"They have to have the same qualifications that you have to have to be Governor or a State Representative."

"Mr. Johnson, bring your remarks... 48 seconds to go on this."

"I guess the answer is 'no', it doesn't change the qualifications. Okay then, I would ask Representative... for somebody to yield their time so I could have a little 269  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day bit more time to... "

"Don't forget to keep marking up who's yielding their time."

"Yes, Mr. Parke, did you wish to yield your time to Mr. Johnson?"

"That was very astute of you, Mr. Speaker. Yes."

"Alright. Mr. Johnson."

"Is there contained anywhere in this legislation, this authorizing in legislation, any prohibitions or limitations on how much money public utilities, corporations, labor unions or anyone else can give to candidates who run for the Commerce Commission? Or do you intend to propose any such limitations?"

"Mr... Representative Johnson, we've matched this Bill to the stringent rules as applied to State Representatives..."

"Okay, what limitations would there be on how much money Illinois Power could give..."

"There are none."

"... Or Champaign county health care consumers could give to a candidate? What are the limitations, what are the stringent limitations that you're talking about? The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, there aren't any limitations now addressing the Bill. There aren't any limitations whatever. All we're going to do is, in the name of telling voters that we're going to do something about utility rates, enact an absolutely fallacious piece of legislation that's going to do nothing whatever. It doesn't change the qualifications for a membership in the Commerce Commission, it doesn't change the ability of the citizens and various interest groups to affect the votes of Commerce Commissioners. As a matter of fact, it opens up the process far more than the 270  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 current process does to buy-outs by various interest groups who can directly affect rates. It does nothing about rates. It does nothing about changing the factors that go into the determination of rates by the Commerce Commission, and what it does is clearly fly in the face of 'Baker versus Carr'. If you live in the Second District, in Suburban Cook, if you live in the Second Judicial District, you're going to be vastly underrepresented because the population variances are up to 53 percent from the norm and clearly unconstitutional. I want to do something about rate increases, too. I don't like to see it any more than anybody else does, but simply waving this panacea, or alleged panacea at the people and saying because we're going to elect your Commissioners that it's going to mean your rates go down, just flatly isn't the case. We need to have some substantive approach to the issue. We need to approach the reason why rates have gone up, and we don't need to wave out this red flag in front of the people and then expect them to say you did something about it, when the fact of the matter is, if we did make this change, we'd come back here in two or three years when everybody then is subject to the real political system, contributions and everything else, and say, "God, why did rates go up 75 percent rather than they had been before?' realistic approach to the issue, and I would respectfully request the people vote 'no' on this issue."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Young."

"Thank you, Mr. It's just not a Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in support of House 3ill 715, and I think the issue has been stated very clearly. It's just, who do we want the Commerce Commission to be responsive to, and what are some of the reasons our rates, northern Illinois, have gone up so high? in particularly I'd like to just 271  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 share with the Body an experience. There is a Commonwealth Edison distribution center located in my district, which is closing. There are three distribution centers in Chicago. Very shortly, there will only be two. Now, we've met with the people of the utility to find out exactly why they were closing this distribution center, why jobs were leaving Chicago, and they weren't going anyplace else. It's a total cutdown from three centers to two, and we were told that the reason for the close is because the demand has decreased. I repeat that, Ladies and Gentlemen. Commonwealth Edison is closing distribution centers in Chicago because the demand has decreased. So, I was flabbergasted and asked their representatives how could demand be decreasing when we're constantly building new nuclear facilities? They did not have a good answer, but the answer is that they are two separate operations the part of the utility that wants to expand, and in reference to Representative Johnson's questions about why the rates keep going up, they keep going up because the Commerce Commission recognizes a profit on the excess capacity to the stockholders of the utilities... as a legitimate part of the rate base that our senior citizens, who can't afford electricity, who, in Chicago, if Representative Huff was here, he'd say. They have to make a choice in winter between heating and eating.. Now, I don't know if an elected Commerce Commission is going to solve this problem, but with the appointed system we have, we have the highest rates in the midwest while we pay for excess capacity at a time when demand is going down. Now, I don't know what anyone else's constituents feel about the matter. but my constituents would like to have a little more hands-on conversation and interplay with the people who set the rates and make decisions to include profits for excess 272  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 capacity at a time when demand is going down. This is a good Bill, it's a necessary Bill, it's a consumer Bill. A vote for this Bill shows your consumers, shows your low income constituents, shows your senior citizens that you do, in fact, share their concerns..."

"Bring your remarks to a close, please."

"... Over these outrageous, ridiculous rate increases that we've encountered for the last 10 years. I urge an 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Kubik."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I represent a district that is severely impacted by utility rates and, frankly, I'm really concerned about utility rates, and one of the reasons why I've supported a lot of the Citizens' Utility Board legislation. As a matter of fact, Representative Matijevich passed out a Bill, I believe yesterday, by an overwhelming margin, House Bill 401, which would allow the Citizens' Utility Board to be on a checkoff system. I was the Cosponsor of that, probably the only Republican Cosponsor on that particular Bill. But let's not make the mistake, Ladies and Gentlemen, of believing that election is going to bring lower utility rates. If we follow that argument, my friends, then why isn't it that we don't have an elected Chicago School Board? I would suggest that there are a lot of people in the City of Chicago who are not too happy about the way the Chicago Board of Education runs their system. and yet, we aren't rushing to the lake and trying to get an elected Chicago School Board. I think that perhaps maybe a lot of people have gripes with the CTA, and yet, we have an appointed CTA, we don't have an elected CTA. We have a major problem with the Chicago Housing Authority, and yet, I don't see this great move and this 273  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 great effort to make that an elected board. The point of fact is, Ladies and Gentlemen, it's not whether or not you're elected, it's... and I may not make the Gentleman on the second floor happy by saying this, it's not the election that makes a good board, it's the people on that board, and the people that are appointed to that board. Let's work harder at making sure that the people who are appointed to that board, apart from the policital process, that the people that are appointed to that board are responsive and do the right thing. I urge a 'no' vote on this Bill."

"The Gentleman from Sangamon, Mr. Curran."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think we have tended to miss the point. Each one of us sits or stands in this room because somebody has chosen to elect us to this position, and I would imagine that each of us would be willing to say of the electors in our district, that those people are able to make an intelligent decision. Otherwise, why are you here? And if they can make an intelligent decision to put you here, why can these same intelligent people not make an intelligent decision to put good members of the Commerce Commission here? What's really going on here is, we're protecting somebody's rear end, aren't we? He're circling the wagons, aren't we? What we really should be doing is saying that the voters in our districts who have shown the intelligence to elect us, have the same intelligence to elect other good people to elective office. If you say that your voters cannot elect good people, then vote against this, but if you say that your electors can elect good people, then vote for this, or otherwise you insult the elective voters of your district."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. McAuliffe." 274  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"Well, Mr. McAuliffe, there are only two people that are seeking... who are seeking recognition. Mr. Hannig, from Macoupin. With leave, let's let them both express themselves. The Gentleman from Macoupin, Mr. Hannig."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. We had one of the Gentlemen on that side of the aisle ask, do we know any of the Members of the Commerce Commission? And I think that's one of the interesting questions we look at today. I don't know any of the Members of the Commerce Commission. I've never met them, and I don't think they really take any interest in our constituencies or the problems that the people in our districts face. What this Bill attempts to do is to give the people of our districts in the State of Illinois an opportunity to see these people, when they're candidates for office, come to the small towns in rural Illinois, come to Chicago, come to the suburban areas and talk about the problems that the utility companies face and that we as consumers face, and tell us a little bit about what they would do if they were elected to the Commerce Commission. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Every two years, we face an opponent who wants to talk about the issues and perhaps point out some of the problems that we've had on our votes on the House floor, and I think that's a very legitimate type of debate. So, I would simply say that we need to bring a little democracy, a little accountability into the process to give the people of our districts a chance to see these people, to meet these people, to ask them what they're about and what they want to do if they're elected to the Commerce Commission. You know, John Matijevich said if it isn't broke, don't fix it. I would simply say, if we don't fix 275  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day this system, we're all going to be broke." May 20, 1987

"The Gentleman from Vermilion, Mr. Black."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I had an old football coach, a very wise and learned man, who told me some time ago, in fact, he hailed, I think, from Durand, who gave me a definition of the word 'dilemma'. And he said, 'Bill, the definition of the word 'dilemma' is when you have a question and neither answer is entirely satisfactory to you.' And I feel that I'm in that position, and with all due respect to Representative Matijevich, I haven't made up my mind how I'm going to vote on this issue at this particular point in time. I know the reason behind the move. I have two teenage children. I think they have a stereo or something that resembles a stereo in every room of the house, and I pay utility bills, and with two teenage children, I'm on budget billing. I have to be. But let me ask if the Sponsor would yield some questions. I know the main reason for the push to an elected Commerce Commission, and that is higher rates, rates that we're all paying, those in this chamber and those that we represent. Representative, can you give me any assurance that the factors that are causing the higher utility rates are caused vis-a-vis an appointed Commerce Commission versus an elected Commerce Commission, or are they due to circumstances that perhaps are not under either control?"

"Yes. Yes, in fact, we have already ennumerated all of those, and I'll do it one more time for you. It will save me, in my summation, reiterating the same thing. In Illinois versus the states that have elected Commerce Commissions, the residential consumers paid 25 percent higher rates. The commercial consumers paid an average of 24.3 percent higher rates, and the industrial consumers 276  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day paid an average of 18.6 percent. May 20, 1987 assume that Now, we do Illinois will be like the average elected states; wherein, they do have these lower rates, and if we did have an elected Commerce Commission, that the people, in their responsiveness to the constituents of Illinois, would reflect the same initiative that was... in these other states."

"Thank you, Representative, thank you. What I would... What I hoped you would address were the cost of coal, the cost of freight, and the cost of building plants that have gone up considerably, and I'm not sure that either Commission would address that. One other question. My father is retired and lives in Arizona. They have an elected Commerce Commission. I'm concerned that their rates are some 25 percent higher than ours. Can you address that?" Van Duyne:

"Well, the... Arizona has the Salt River Project, and they do have a lot of hydroelectricity, the same as they do in Idaho, so we will... we would probably look badly... look bad in comparison to them, plus the fact that some of their... theirs is publicly sponsored, hence the reference to the Salt River Project, but Illinois has not that comparison." "Thank you very much, Representative. Bringing my remarks to a close, can you tell me what the trend is, currently, for an elective versus appointed Commerce Commission? Is the trend growing, or is the trend, in fact, going the other way? I ask that question because it seems to me that only 11 states currently elect public service Commissioners; whereas, in 1954 it was 17 states, so perhaps you could address that and clear my mind on that. Thank you."

"Yes, yes, I would. You know, this is a highly 277  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day volatile subject. May 20, 1987 monopoly on You have people who have a our utilities in practically every state in the union because of the fact that such a... "

"Mr. Van Duyne to finish his response. Proceed."

"It's such a large business that these people react violently. They spend millions of dollars to fight these issues, SO it's a very slow growing trend, but nevertheless, it is a growing trend, especially in Illinois, because of the excessive rates."

"There being no further discussion, the Gentleman from Will, Mr. Van Duyne, to close."

"Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In Batavia, there is a little community of about four or five... in that general area, there's a community of about four or five little towns that became so vehemently opposed to Commonwealth Edison's rate increases that they threatened to go to Wisconsin Power. Chicago is leased... with the Commonwealth Edison is going to run out in six years. Mayor Washington has, time and time again, threatened that he is going to go to another state if they don't make some adjustment. I don't see how in the world that anybody, faced with the figures that we've given you today, can refute the argument that the Illinois Commerce Commission has not been responsive to the constituents at all. And by the way, that's who they're supposed to be representing, they're supposed to be representing the public. They have no obligation to make the... make the decision that the stockholders get an absolute return on their money. We feel that we have presented our case as hard and as factually as possible. We've tried very hard to do that. We've tried to get the message to all the people involved that the Illinois rates were going through the ceiling, and 278  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 that the increases were... by the Commerce Commission were granted anyway. They have no regard for the contracts for coal. They make excessive contracts for too long a time. They have no insistence on efficiency. All of these things have culminated in the highest rates in the country. He believe that the ICC must start listening to the cries of our constituents, and the only way to accomplish this is to make them stand for election, and I ask for your 'aye' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open, and this is final action. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Turner, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the Assembly. I rise to explain my vote. I have a lot of doubts about this particular Bill. It is not a Bill that I think is in the best form. It is one that I know the Governor will have to do something with, but it's a message that has to be sent to the Commerce Commission. We've heard in the State of Louisiana where all the former elected Commerce Commissioners or Commissioner Officers have went on and became Governors of that state. I also realize that when you talk about it in the City of Chicago, we could very well elect our Commissioner with little or no money, but outside the City of Chicago, they spend 100 - 125,000 dollars for campaigns. A Commissioner's representing, in my mind, the consumer. That's the type of Commissioner we'd like to have in office, but I feel that with 150,000 dollar campaign, he's going to be owned and bought by the utility company. There's an old song about whose song you shall... whose bread you shall eat is whose song you shall sing, and I see a big fear in that in terms of electing the Commerce Commission, but I am sending a 279  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 50th Legislative Day message. like many of my fellow Democratic Members here today, that something must be done to the utilities in this state. Something must be done to the utilities in this country, and when you have nowhere else to go, I don't care if they're elected or appointed, the rates are not going down, and the question that we have to deal with is how are we going to lower those rates. I say, let's eliminate the Commission, period. Let's give people free utilities."

"The Lady from Champaign, Ms. Satterthwaite, to explain her vote. One minute, Ma'am."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, in previous Sessions, I have supported elected Commerce Commission members because I felt that at that point, the Commerce Commission was broke, but as we said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." We fixed it a couple of years ago. We have just recently given new authority to the individual members of the Commerce Commission. We have not yet had time to see what they can do with that additional staff and that additional authority. I believe that we will never know whether that system will work if we start changing it again too soon. Let's give the work that we did to improve the Commerce Commission a chance to function and see whether or not it can provide a better system. Currently, there is less control by the Chairman, more individual input, and I think that's what we should test for awhile."

"The Gentleman from Kane, Mr. Kirkland, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker. It looks like we're going to send a message to the Commerce Commission and to the Governor, and if we do, I don't think that's a terribly bad idea. I'd like to explain, though, why I'm going to vote 'no'. I don't think we can compare the election of people to the General Assembly to the election of people to the 280  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 Commerce Commission. Most of us who are elected to the General Assembly in the course of running for that office are bouncing around a number of special interest groups, and perhaps our abilities are how to put combinations of those groups together to adequately represent our constituents. The fact of the matter is, my fear is that a... an election ... people running for the Commerce Commission could very much... too much be in the camp of one side. The utilities; or the other side, the consumer groups that... "

"Proceed. Just finish your remarks, Sir."

"Okay. ...That represent the taxpayers, yes, but perhaps, in some instances, represent simply lowering the rates in all instances as opposed to considering, also, the needs of having adequate ... "

"Bring your remarks to a close, please."

"... Electricity and so forth. So, I'm just afraid that the election process for the Commerce Commission would be much different than our election process. I don't think they're the same, and we should vote against the Bill."

"Mr. Levin, one minute to explain your vote. The timer is on, Ladies and Gentlemen."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. In explaining my 'aye' vote, let me first indicate that the approximately five billion dollars in increases over the last few years from the Illinois Commerce Commission makes what we have done in terms of tax increases pale by comparison. So, I think it's very appropriate for our citizens of this state to have some input, since they have an input in terms of what we do down here. As far as the rewrite of the Public Utility Act, we made major changes, significant changes which, unfortunately, this Commission has not been paying 281  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987 attention to and has not been following, particularly with respect to this current Commonwealth Edison deal where we made major procedural changes, and they are truncating the proceeding into a very short period of time. They're ignoring the two years of work that we did."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Harris, one minute to explain your vote. The timer is on."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The harangues we've heard today about how high utility rates are really centered on one company in this state, and we know which company that is. That's the largest utility company in this state, and I live in that service district, and I can tell you very well that when they presented their rate increase proposal, they didn't go to the Commerce Commission first, they went to the elected politicians, and it seems to me that if they want to go to the elected politicians, we should give them an elected Commerce Commission. But, you know the problem with that? It's striking at just one utility company in this state, and I grant you, they have abused the system, and maybe we should pass this out of here just to get at that one utility company, but there are a lot of responsible utility companies, and it's unfortunate that we have that one that doesn't seem to like to abide by the rules and wants to do things their own way. I think prudence dictates that to force this on those that... those utility companies that are responsible would be a bad thing, and I think the best vote is a 'no".

"The Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Peterson, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To explain my 'no vote, I think we've failed to remember that currently, this General Assembly is a major player in the process of selecting 282  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 Commerce Commission members. They are nominated by the Governor, and they are sent to hearings in the Senate, and they are approved by the Senate. This process works. If you're so interested in ICC membership, why don't you go over to the Senate hearings and participate? How many of you have gone over to those meetings? Probably none of you. That's why you don't know those members. Why don't you talk to your Senators and tell them what you feel? Have them question the members when they come before the hearing. The process that we have now is a good process. The fault lies not with the ICC, it lies with this Legislative Body by not using the power that it has currently. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Morrow, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to state my possible conflict of interest in this issue. I had planned to vote 'present' on this issue, but I began to give a great deal of thought on this. In as such that I was sent down here by the 32nd District - the people of the 32nd District - and I don't feel that they would allow me to vote 'present'. So, on this issue, I will vote 'yes'. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hensel, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. The Sponsor of the Bill mentioned a little municipality in my district called Batavia. There are a few municipalities in my district that purchase the electricity. They have the option to go out and negotiate where they want to buy their electricity. The best... to my knowledge, the Wisconsin was the cheapest. I think they're negotiating to try to get back into Illinois to buy their electricity. I don't think the Illinois Commerce Commission has anything to do 283  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 with the rates that they can buy their electricity from, and I don't see where an elected Commerce Commission would do any better, and I vote 'no'."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 63 voting 'aye', 46 voting 'no', 6 voting 'present'. And the Gentleman from Champaign, Mr. Johnson, requests... "

"Verification."

"Verification of the Affirmative Roll Call. The Gentleman from Hill, Mr. Van Duyne, asks a poll of those not voting. Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of those not voting. Deuchler and Hicks. No further."

"Mr. Clerk, proceed with the Verification of the Affirmative Roll Call."

"Black. Braun. Breslin. Brunsvold. Bugielski. Capparelli."

"Excuse me. Mr. Johnson, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Could we start over, so I can see what's going on, here? If you could ask people to be in their seats so we could have some kind of order, here."

"Alright. Under our rules, Members should be in their seats during the verification. Proceed with... proceed, Sir."

"Black. Braun. Breslin. Brunsvold. Bugielski. Capparelli. Christensen. Cullerton. Curran. Daley. Davis. DeJaegher. DeLeo. Dunn. Farley. Flinn. Flowers. Giorgi. Goforth. Granberg. Greiman. Hannig. Hartke. Hasara. Homer. Huff. Jones. Keane. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. LeFlore. Levin. Matijevich. Mautino. McNamara. Morrow. Mulcahey. Novak. O'Connell. 284  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 50th Legislative Day May 20, 1987 Panayotovich. Phelps. Preston. Rea. Regan. Rice. Richmond. Saltsman. Shaw. Steczo. Stern. Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. Weaver. Wennlund. White. Williams. Hilson. Holf. Anthony Young and Hyvetter Younge."

"Mr. Johnson, questions of the Affirmative Roll Call."

"Representative Braun."

"Ms. Braun. Ms. Braun. Is Ms. Braun in the chamber? Ms. Braun is... Ms. 3raun in the chamber? How is the Lady recorded?"

"The Lady is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Ms. Braun from the Roll Call. Mr. Steczo asks leave to be verified."

"That's fine."

"Okay. You have leave."

"Representative Homer."

"Mr. Homer. Mr. Homer. Is he in the chamber? Mr. Homer. How is Mr. Homer recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Homer from the Roll Call. Mr. Homer has returned to the chamber. Restore Mr. Homer. Ms. Jones and Mr. Preston desire to be verified. Do they have leave?"

"Leave."

"Alright, leave is granted. Proceed, Sir."

"Representative Huff."

"Mr. Huff is in the rear of the chambers."

"Representative Currie."

"Ms. Currie voted 'no'."

"I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Representative Breslin."

"Excuse me. Ms. Davis asks leave to be verified." 285  50th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1987

"That's fine. Representative Breslin."

"Ms. Breslin is at the door."

"Representative Giorgi."

"Mr. Giorgi is at his seat."

"Representative White."

"Mr. White is in the middle aisle."

"Representative Brunsvold."

"Mr. Brunsvold is at the rear of the chamber."

"Representative Daley."

"Mr. Daley... Representative Daley is at his seat."

"Representative DeLeo."