Illinois House Floor Debate — June 25, 1987

"The hour of 9:30 having arrived, the House will be in Session. Hembers will be in their... at their seats. Those not entitled to the floor will withdraw. The chaplain for today will be the Reverend Thomas Suantner, Pastor of First United Methodist Church of Pontiac. Reverend Suantner is a guest of Representative Thomas Ewing. The guests in the gallery may wish to rise and join us in the invocation. Reverend Suantner."

"Let us be at prayer. Almighty God, hold all here assembled to the realization that all of life is a sacred trust. Instill in our minds the truth that the unfinished mission of a compassionate democracy is the redress of human suffering by redemptive toil, a society of peace which passes understanding couched with injustice for all peoples everywhere. Oh Divine and Holy One, may these, Your servants gathered here be temperate in all things, allowing no subtle influence to steal into the soul, no suspicion, no anger, no contempt for the opinions of others. Holy God, in these sober hours, grant Your blessing upon us, that with patience, understanding, calmness and moderation, we may avow that judgment brings forth justice and truth. Be near, Eternal Teacher, whispering into each soul the secret of the best life inspiring us to use our powers for the noblest ends, for the highest good of the least and lowliest of all Your children. In all that shall be said and done this day, we pray that there may be unity, harmony and conformity to Your purpose. Give a great hunger for those virtues that shall lift these, Your servants, in this Legislature to the highest plane of service, for the love of the one who came to be servant of all, in Your name. Amen."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Hallock, to 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 lead us in the pledge to the flag."

Hallock et al: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Mr. Matijevich, are there any excused absences on the Democratic side?"

"Mr. Speaker, there are none on this side of the aisle. Thank you."

"Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker. Would the record reflect the excused absences of Representatives Tuerk, Myron Olson and David Harris."

"Thank you. Let the record so reflect. Mr. Clerk, take the record. 108 Members having answered to the call of a quorum, a quorum is present. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are about to go to the Order of Senate Bills Third Reading, Consent Calendar so that these Bills may be read a third time. We will not be voting on these Bills at this time. Later on, you will receive sheets that will allow the voting to be done, and then votes cast 'no', 'present', or 'not voting'. So, Mr. Clerk, on that note, let us go to Senate Bills Third Reading, Consent Calendar on page 2 of Supplemental 81, House Calendar, Consent Calendar."

"Senate Bill 39, a Bill for an Act to amend the Law Enforcement Officers, Civil Defense Workers, Civil Air Patrol Members, Paramedics and Fire Compensation Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 62, a Bill for an Act to amend the Prairie State 2000 Authority Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 123, a Bill for an Act in relation to testimony of children in criminal proceedings. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 187, a Bill for an 2  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 220, a Bill for an Act in relation to domestic relations. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 222, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to fire protection districts. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 232, a Bill for an Act to amend the Township Law. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 256, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Human Rights Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 484, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unemployment Insurance Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 495, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 537, a Bill for an Act concerning regulation of optometry. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 548, a Bill for an Act to amend the Flood Control Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 551, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 553, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 630, a Bill for an Act to amend the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 798, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Dental Practice Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 822, a Bill for an Act to amend the Probate Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 912, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act creating the Department of Children and Family Services. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 918, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to provide for and regulate the administration of trusts by trust companies. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 931, a Bill for an Act to amend the Environmental Protection Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 953, a Bill for an Act to amend the Toxic Substance 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Disclosure to Employees Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 961, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to the location of regional pollution control facilities. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 977, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1136, a Bill for an Act to encourage peer review by health care providers. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1158, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to criminal identification and investigation. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1177, a Bill for an Act to amend the Minority and Female Business Enterprise Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1234, a Bill for an Act to amend the Child Care Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1235, a Bill for an Act to amend the Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities Confidentiality Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1253, a Bill for an Act to amend the Environmental Protection Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1261, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revised Uniform Limited Partnership Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1277, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1295, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Controlled Substance Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1314, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Administrative Code. Third Reading... that's the Civil Administrative Code. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1322, a Bill for an Act to amend and repeal certain Sections of the Illinois Clinical Laboratory Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1333, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revised Uniform and Reciprocal Enforcement of Support Act. Third Reading of the Bill. That was Senate Bill 1332. Senate Bill 1359, a Bill for an Act to amend 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 the Criminal Code. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1377, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Criminal Procedure. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1390, a Bill for an Act in relation to the merger of special districts in the townships. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1399, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to pretrial services. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1409, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1417, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1436, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1472, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Identification Card Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1487, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to revise the law in relation to criminal jurisprudence. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1498, a Bill for an Act to amend certain Acts in relation to toxic chemical reporting. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1502, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Nuclear Safety Preparedness Act. Third Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1514, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Human Rights Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Alright, these Bills will be held on the order of Third Reading. Leave of the House, we will go to Bills on the Order of Second Reading that have not previously been read a second time, the first being on page 16, Senate Bill 1137. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1137, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Second Reading of the Bill."

"Are there any Motions with respect to Amendment... are there any Floor Amendments? I'm sorry."

"No Committee Amendments." 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"No Floor Amendments."

June 25, 1987 "Third Reading. And now on that same Order appears 1147."

"Senate Bill 1147, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Living Hill Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Are there Motions with respect to Amendment #1?"

"No Motions filed."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Curran."

"The Gentleman from Sangamon, Mr. Curran, Curran: Amendment #2." "Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is a technical Amendment agreed to by the Hospital Association, the Right to Life organization, and the Medical Society."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #2. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted?' Those in favor 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. On this same Order on the Order of Second Reading, House Bills appears House Bill 236. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill. I'm sorry, Senate Bill 236." Clerk O'Brien: pensions. "Senate Bill 236, a Bill for an Act in relation to Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions with respect to Amendment #1?" 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"A Motion to table Amendment #1."

June 25, 1987 "The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Capparelli, moves to table the Motion to table, previously filed. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall the Motion to table... the Motion to table be adopted?' Those in favor 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Motion carries. Are there Amendments to the Bill? Floor Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. On page 2 appears Special Call - Administration of Justice Second Reading. And on that Order appears Senate Bill 28. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 28, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Code of Criminal Procedure. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendments #2 and 3 were adopted in Committee."

"Are there any Motions with respect to Committee Amendments?"

"No Motions filed."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative McCracken."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken, on Amendment #4."

"Before we proceed to that, Speaker, I'd like to make a Motion to table Amendment #3. I believe this is an agreed Motion. We will substitute later with a different formulation than in Amendment #3."

"The Gentleman moves to table Amendment #3 to House... Senate Bill 28. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall the Amendment be tabled?' Those in favor say 'aye', opposed 7  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 "no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Motion carries. The Amendment is tabled. Mr. Clerk, Amendment #4."

"Floor Amendment #4, McCracken."

"Mr. McCracken."

"Please withdraw Amendment #4."

"Amendment #4 withdrawn. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #5, offered by Representative McCracken."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #5 would amend the speedy trial provision added in Committee to increase from 60 to 90 days the period of time for which the defendant may be held in preventive detention without being brought to trial. This has been worked out with the Chicago Bar Association, and I believe there's agreement on this Amendment, and I move its adoption."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #5 to Senate Bill 28. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton."

"Yes, would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he'll yield for questions."

"The way Amendment #2 is drafted, it would require a defendant to be brought to trial within 60 days if the bail was denied. Is that the way it was drafted?"

"That's correct."

"And this changes it to 90?"

"That's correct."

"Is that... that's to... let's see now, what is the Fourth Term Act right now? That's 180 days, right?"

"No, it's 160 for out of custody demands, 120 for..."

"120 for in custody." 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"Right. So this is less than that."

"Right. What was the thought here that's just too much... there's too much volume, or something like that?"

"That 120 was? Yes."

"What would happen if it's not brought to trial within 90 days? What's the... "

"It is not... it is not dismissed with prejudice. The defendant is given bail in the event it's not brought within 90 days."

"A reasonable bail, undoubtedly. Okay, fine. Thank you for answering the questions."

"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted?' Those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. Yes, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Ms. Braun, I did not see your light. Ms. Braun."

"Yes, thank you. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Indicates he'll yield for questions."

"Representative McCracken, we had an extensive debate in Committee about this, and Amendments were adopted in Committee, and this Amendment... are those Amendments still on the Bill, or did you move to table them or what?"

"No, no. Well, 3 was tabled, but that wasn't your Amendment."

"Okay."

"That Amendment is on the Bill. This Amendment does amend, I believe, what was your Amendment, the 90 day... or you had the 60 day Amendment?"

"Uh huh."

"This would make it 90 days."

"That's the only change, though?"

"Yes."

"The other hearing and speedy trial type of issues are... remain the same in the Bill, as amended in Committee?" 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"Well, we will deal with those. The reimbursement is the subject of Amendment 06, and the speedy trial... this is it. The 90 days is the only change."

"Alright. Thank you very much."

"The question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted? Those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 06, offered by Representative O'Connell and Cullerton."

"Mr. Cullerton, on Amendment 06."

"Yes, I would ask leave to withdraw #6."

"Amendment 06 withdrawn. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 07, offered by Representative O'Connell and Cullerton."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton, on Amendment #7."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill deals with implementing the Constitutional Amendment that was passed last year dealing with the denial of bail in certain cases. That Constitutional Amendment required that any additional cost that would be incurred by the local government as a result of the Constitutional Amendment would be borne by the state. There was some discussion with regard to what the legislative intent was, when that Constitutional Amendment was passed. The purpose of this Amendment is to... and the Bill is to implement the Constitutional Amendment. So, this Amendment deals with the issue of reimbursement, and what it says is that the sheriff of each county shall certify to the treasurer of each county the number of days that persons are detained in the custody of the sheriff without bond, as a result of an or... as a result of an 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day order that was Amendment. June 25, 1987 entered pursuant to this Constitutional The county treasurer then shall annually certify to the Supreme Court the number of days that person's been detained during the previous 12 month period, and then the Supreme... out of monies appropriated to the Supreme Court, they shall reimburse the county at a rate of 50 dollars per day for each day that that person's detained. And I would move for the adoption of the Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton, moves for the adoption of Amendment #7 to Senate Bill 28. And on that, the Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is also agreed to. This sets forth more... in more detail the daily rate and the implementation of the constitutional requirement that the state reimburse for local costs."

"The question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted?' Those in favor 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #8, offered by Representative McCracken and O'Connell."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken, on Amendment #8."

"I'm going to withdraw Amendment #8."

"#8 is withdrawn. Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. On this Order appears Senate Bill 115. On this Order appears Senate Bill 115. Mr. Homer. Mr. Homer. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 115, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments." 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"Are there Floor Amendments?"

"Floor June 25, 1987 Amendment 1, offered by Representative Homer."

"The Gentleman from Fulton, Mr. Homer."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment 1 just simply delays the effective date until July 1 of 1988. I would ask for its approval."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment 81 to Senate Bill 115. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted?' Those in favor 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment's adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Homer."

"The Gentleman from Fulton, Mr. Homer, on Amendment #2."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #2 was brought to me by the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault. And that organization quite correctly points out that currently on the books, there is a criminal offense called sexual relations within families, which provides a Class 3 felony is committed when a person commits sexual relations within the family when he or she commits an act of sexual penetration. And a recent publicized case involved a situation where a family member engaged in sexual conduct with a small child in the family, but the... there was no actual act of sexual penetration. Sexual conduct is defined elsewhere in the Code as any intentional or knowing touching or fondling by the victim or the accused, directly or indirectly, of the sex organs, anus or breast of the victim for the purpose of sexual gratification or arousal of the victim or the accused. Now, that conduct certainly 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 is... is every bit as objectionable as sexual penetration, particularly when we're talking about situations which occur within families. So Amendment #2 would clarify and specify that sexual relations within families includes acts of sexual conduct defined by Section 12-12 of the Code. I would answer questions and move for the adoption of the Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Fulton moves for the adoption of Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 115. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted? Those in favor 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative McCracken."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken, on Amendment 3."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen. This Amendment would create an aggravating factor for assault, battery and robbery, increasing the penalty by one degree, where the victim is either a handicapped person or a person over 60 years of age. This was a Bill that passed out of the House, and I move its adoption."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment 3 to Senate Bill 115. And on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton."

"Yes, thank you. Would the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes."

"He indicates he will."

"Representative McCracken, you indicated that this was a Bill that had passed out of the House. Do you recall whether or not we had some discussion at the time as to the 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day legislative the Senate?" June 25, 1987 intent? First of all, did that Bill pass in

"No, but I don't... honestly, I don't know why or what happened to it."

"It wasn't because it was defeated or maybe perhaps not called."

"I don't know."

"Do you remember what the Bill number was?"

"2301."

"Now, as I recall, I had a question of you with regard to the definition... your interpretation of the definition of 'physically handicapped person', and as I read the Amendment, this 'physically handicapped person' means a person who suffers from a permanent and disabling physical characteristic resulting from disease, injury, functional disorder or congenital condition. Is this the same definition that we had in the original House Bill?"

"Yes, it is. I might add that this definition appears in the Criminal Code... or the Code of Corrections, I should say, and that is what the definition is taken from."

"I see. And so, it would not cover someone who had a mental disability, because it refers specifically to a physical characteristic."

"That's correct."

"Now also, this would add number 11 and 12 to the list of aggravating assault... of when an aggravated assault... when an assault become aggravated. An assault, by definition, does not require the touching of another person, does it?"

"That's correct."

"Does placing someone in fear of a battery?"

"That's correct."

"Now, does the... for someone to qualify for an 14  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 aggravated assault, would the individual have to know that the person was physically handicapped? Is that one of the elements of the state's case to show that the defendant knew or should have known about the person?"

"No, it's not."

"And the same thing is true with a person who is 60?"

"Yes."

"And aggravated assault is a Class A misdemeanor?"

"Yes."

"And what is a regular assault?"

"A "C", I believe."

"Fine, thank you."

"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, *Shall this Amendment be adopted?" Those in favor 'aye', those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment's adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. On this Order appears Senate Bill 192. Mr. O'Connell? Out of the record. On this Order appears Senate Bill 385. Out of the record. Oh, Mr. Giorgi, did you want to proceed with that? Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 385, a Bill for an Act to revise the law in relation to clerks of courts. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Giorgi."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Giorgi, on Amendment #1."

"Mr. Speaker. Amendment #1 is a simple Amendment because of the mandate that vital records have to be storaged and 15  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 vital records have to be put on computers or micrographics, this specifies that a two dollar charge for certified copies of vital records be used to defray the cost of the mandating of micrographics and maintaining in the computer system, and I urge the adoption of the Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago moves for the adoption of Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 385. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted?' All those in favor 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment's adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Steczo."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Steczo, on Amendment #2."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Amendment #2 deals with the stipends that we have approved in the past for the county treasurers. There have been circumstances where the county treasurer's salary after a stipend has been received has been reduced by that amount, and simply what Amendment #2 says is that the compensation received by the county treasurer shall not be affected by the stipend that they receive from the state."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Steczo, moves for the adoption of Amendment 2 to Senate Bill 385. And on that, is there a discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me see if I heard that correctly. The stipend that we give the county chairman... or the county treasurer, let's say it's 3,000 dollars, and he's making 32,000, let's say, what this would say is that the county board couldn't reduce his salary to 29,000? Is 16  68th Legislative Day Steczo: that correct?" STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE "That's correct." June 25, 1987

"That's correct."

"If the... If the county... "

"Do you think that... Let me ask you a question. think that's Do you well, obviously you do. You submitted the Amendment, and obviously you think it's an appropriate role for the General Assembly to take."

"Well, Representative Hoffman, it's an appropriate... was an appropriate role for the General Assembly to take to it approve the stipend, and therefore, we presume that that stipend would be over and above the salary that that elected official would make. I think it's not proper for the county board to go back and say, "Now you're receiving the stipend for the duties that were mandated you by the state, so now we're going to reduce your salary.""

"Well, we might differ on... we might differ on that in terms of the local control issue versus the state control, but as long as I understand what you're doing. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Fulton, Hr. Homer."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he will." Homer:

"Representative Steczo, the Constitution provides that during the term of office, the county board shall neither increase or decrease one of its officer's salaries. Correct?” "Correct." Steczo:

"And SO when we passed the stipend during a term of a county treasurer, were some county boards reducing the amount of contribution the county made in those instances?" "Although I've heard, Representative Homer, that in a few instances that the reductions were made, I'm not aware as to when they were made. I'm not sure if they were made... 17  68th Legislative Day " STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987

"I'm sorry. I can't... "

"Although. I'm aware that reductions were made, I'm not sure if they were made during the term or prior to the next term. Probably prior to the next term. because I'm sure the county boards would not want to be in violation of the Constitution."

"Alright, but it's your understanding we passed the stipend, that the stipend wasn't going to the treasurer until the next term?"

"Could you repeat that, please?"

"The stipend was going directly to the county treasurer right after we passed it. Right?"

"Correct. Right."

"And this was in addition to the compensation paid to the treasurer by the county."

"Correct."

"Alright, so the problem your Bill attempts to address is the circumstance where the county, upon our passage of the stipend, has taken action to lower its contribution towards salary of the treasurer by 3,500 dollars?"

"Correct."

"And you don't want that to happen. You want the stipend to take the effect that the General Assembly gave it, and that was as a stipend or an increase, salary or compensation to the treasurer to accommodate the treasurers for the added responsibilities that we've given them over the years."

"That is correct."

"And that's all your Amendment would do, then is to seek to implement our legislative purpose."

"That's all it does. Correct."

"Well then, I think it's a good Amendment, and I would 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 urge its adoption."

"The Lady from Sangamon, Ms. Hasara."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Representative Steczo, is there some reason only the treasurers were included in this?"

"Representative Hasara, only because in checking with the Reference Bureau, it would have been a monumental project to include all the others. Our intention, though, if this Amendment finds favor with the General Assembly, to come back immediately next year and do the same for other county officials."

"Okay, as with the stipend, every group now will be coming back, I can assure you, because this cut has affected every group of county officials, certainly not just treasurers. In fact, the treasurers have been one of the last groups to receive the stipend. I believe county clerks were first, and so they've really been harmed by this cut, probably more than any other group. Thank you."

"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted?' All in favor signify by saying 'aye', those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment's adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Steczo - Churchill - Giorgi - and Hensel."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Steczo, on Amendment 3."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have had discussions with the Circuit Court Clerk of Kane County, who represents and is spokesman for the Circuit Court Clerks in DuPage, Lake, Kane, McHenry and DeKalb Counties, and what they have asked for is a change in the classification of judicial circuits 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day to class AA, A, B, C and D, based on judicial circuits. What Amendment #3 seeks to do is to do that, and the reason for doing that is to provide in some cases in the future where there may have to be some changes with standardization of procedures, training fees and other type of legislative action that simply does not have to be done across the board for all counties, and perhaps these classifications can provide special considerations for those counties that need it while not... while leaving... while having us not have to deal with those who may not. I would answer any questions that the Members would have and would move for the adoption of Amendment #3."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Steczo, moves for the adoption of Amendment #3 to Senate Bill 385. And on that, is there any discussion? The Lady from Sangamon, Ms. Hasara."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Mr... Representative Steczo, what is the breakdown of the classes? Would you explain again the reason for this? Is it so we can separate fees differently between... in four classes rather than, I think, there are two now?"

"So we can do that sometime in the future, yes, although the Amendment provides no changes in the fees at all. The class... there would be a class AA county, which would be Cook County; class A would be the Circuit Courts of the 12th, 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th Judicial Circuits; B would be the 3rd, 6th, 7th, 10th, 11th, 14th, 20th and 21st Judicial Circuits; C would be 5, 8, 9, 13 and 15; and class D would be 1, 2 and 4... Judicial Circuits."

"Would you reiterate the purpose in breaking these down?"

"The circuit court clerks of the larger collar counties in the north area of the state have asked consideration for 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 this because right now, there is class A and there's the smaller counties. Quite often, we in the General Assembly, when we deal with legislation that may seek to standardize procedures, do things with fees and others, I have no choice but to enact things for either all counties or the large county and the small... or the smaller counties. They're asking that by changing these classifications, that we could be more deliberative if a certain class of county needs to have special consideration. We can do that without having to impact all the other counties."

"Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted? All in favor signify by saying 'aye', those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment's adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Giorgi, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Mr. Speaker, if there's no opposition from the Minority side, and I talked to Representative McCracken, I'd like to put this on Third and pass it today."

"The Gentleman asks leave of the House to use the Attendance Roll Call to have this Bill heard at this time on the Order of Third Reading. Does the Gentleman have leave? Leave is granted. Mr. Clerk?"

"Senate Bill 385, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to revise the law in relation to clerks of courts. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Giorgi."

"Hell, Mr. Speaker, you heard the Amendments debated this morning, and the original intent of the Bill was to reimburse circuit clerks a nominal amount of monies if 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 they've got a mental institution or a prison in their... within their environs, and the extra workload is the reason for the additional monies, and it... the approximate cost to the state for an entire year for the 102 counties is only $300,000, so I urge the adoption of this Bill."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Giorgi, moves for the passage of Senate Bill 385. On that, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Piel."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield, please?"

"Indicates he'll yield for questions."

"Mr. Giorgi, there was talk of... in the previous Amendment about a stipend. What is the cost of the Bill right now as far as the taxpayers of Illinois go?"

"The circuit clerk's part... the major thrust of the Bill amounts to 300,000 dollars, and that's for 102 counties to reimburse the circuit clerks for extra work because of the mental institutions and prisons, and it amounts to probably an average of 6,000 per... they've got 70,000 inhabitants or less, 8,500 from 70,000 to 500,000 and 12,000..."

"I'm sorry. The last two sentences. I missed completely."

"Okay."

"6,000 per county?"

"6,000 per county of fewer than 70,000 inhabitants if they have a prison or a mental institution in their environs."

"So we're talking about 3 to 400,000 dollars."

"300,000 is the cost."

"And where is that coming from?"

"Reimbursed by the State of Illinois general revenue funds as we do for state's attorneys now. State's attorneys are given a nominal sum if they have a prison or a mental institution in their environs that they have to service because of court appearances at the institutions 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 because of infractions by the patients or inmates."

"Thank you."

"The question is, Shall this Bill pass? All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open, and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Giorgi, one minute to explain your vote."

"Mr. Speaker, this Bill is by the request of the circuit clerks of the entire State of Illinois. This Bill also has the Amendments put on by Representative Steczo that has to do with circuit clerks' needs, and to ensure that the stipends that we vote here are not deducted from the pays of the county officials, and this also has a mandate for the county clerks where they have to microfilm and put their vital records into a type of equipment that preserves it, so this is a very legitimate request. It's not an exorbitant request. I think that most of you have heard from your county clerks and your circuit clerks, and you do that now for state's attorneys. You give state's attorneys an extra stipend for going to the prison or to the mental institution. The circuit clerk's office has to accompany the state's attorney's office, so you're not really being fair if you don't reimburse the circuit clerks like you're reimbursing the state's attorneys. So I'm sure that there are many of you that have heard from your county clerks and your circuit clerks and your state's attorneys, and I'm surprised that..."

"Have all... Mr. Giorgi... Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 58 voting 'aye', 47 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. And the Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Giorgi, requests that the 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Bill be placed on the Order... Mr. Giorgi asks for a Poll of the Absentees."

"Poll of those not voting. Huff and O'Connell. No further."

"So on this question, there are 58 voting 'aye', 47 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. Mr. Hicks, for what purpose do you seek recognition? Mr. Hicks votes 'aye'. Accordingly, there are now... Mr. Clerk... 59 voting 'aye", 46 voting "no"... Mr. Matijevich, for what purpose are you seeking recognition?"

"Hell, I was going to explain my vote for a couple of minutes until we find a hero, and usually when you get to 59, there's all kinds of people like to be a hero, and I think that Representative Giorgi has done a great job and needs a little..."

"Well, he's a fine man, but I think that time has sort of passed. Mr. McCracken..."

"I'm trying to accommodate my seatmate. He said, "Come on, John"."

"Mr. McCracken, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Seek a verification if it appears to get the required number of votes."

"Thank you, Mr. McCracken. Alright, on this Bill... on this question, there are 59 voting 'aye', 46 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. The matter will be placed on the Order of Consideration Postponed. On this Order appears Senate Bill 525. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill. With leave of the House, Mr. Cullerton will handle that matter. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 525, a Bill for an Act in relation to the creation of dispute resolution funds. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee." 24  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton."

"Amendment I adopted in Committee."

"Alright. Are there any Motions with respect to Amendment #1?"

"No Motions filed."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2."

"Mr. Cullerton, yes, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Mr. Speaker, in order to save some time, I'd ask the Parliamentarian to look at Amendments #2 through 17 and I would question the germaneness of those Amendments."

"Alright. Mr. McCracken, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Just to convince you of the wisdom of the germaneness of these Amendments. As you know, although there purports to be a new Act created, it does, in part, affect liability of certain activities, and is an adjunct to our civil trial system for the purpose of resolving disputes. These Amendments go a long way toward that same goal, and in that same arena, our civil court system. And as they say in the business, this has horizontal germaneness."

"Thank you. The Chair will certainly consider your remarks, Mr. McCracken. Mr. Cullerton, your point is well taken. The Chair has examined the underlying Bill and believes that the underlying Bill establishes essentially extrajudicial rather than adjudicatory process, and the extrajudicial would clearly be beyond the scope of these Amendments which touch upon the judicial system itself and the tort liability system. Accordingly, the Chair rules them ungermane. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #18, offered by Representative Cullerton." 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #18 was... is an Amendment that is in response to a pledge in the Committee by the person who is proposing the Bill, that being that we would remove from the Bill the immunity from liability that was to be afforded to the center or its mediators. We feel that this issue should be taken up in a broad category of immunity that this General Assembly will be addressing sometime in the next week, and so it should not be done in this particular Bill, and I believe the Sponsor's agreeable to this."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton, moves for the adoption of Amendment #18 to Senate Bill 525. And on that, the Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, if we adopt this Amendment and have leave to renumber our earlier Amendments, then surely they will be germane. I'd be happy to adopt this and ask leave for that purpose, and when you object, we will be done with the Bill on Second Reading."

"Mr. Cullerton seems to be objecting already. Mr. Cullerton."

"Well, I guess that wasn't in the form of an Amendment to me, but... of a question to me, but I believe all I was doing with the Amendment was to strike some of the language that was in the Bill, so I don't see how that could possibly change the ruling of the Chair. The Amendment just deletes lines 1 through 6 on page 5. I don't see how that could possibly change the... "

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton, moves for the adoption of Amendment #18 to Senate Bill 525. And on that, all those in favor 'aye', those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Amendment's adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Breslin in the Chair."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, on page 4 on your Calendar under the Order of Senate Bills Third Reading appears Senate Bill 3. Representative Cullerton. Representative McPike, for what... McCracken, for what reason do you seek recognition?"

"I'm flattered. Thank you. I'm just wondering why we've left this Order of Business. I thought we were using the Special Orders this week, and now I see you're moving us to the Regular Calendar. I'm glad to see that, in one regard. I think we could do the Regular Order, but in fact, many of the Bills from either side of the aisle are now on this Special Order, and I'd ask the Chair to stay there and work on these Bills. He have one day to a deadline, and we have a number of Bills on the Special Order which have not yet even been considered on Second Reading, particularly what is a very lengthy Administration of Justice, Order of Second Reading."

"Be happy to do that, Representative McCracken. Out of the record. The next Bill on the Special Order of Administration of Justice is Senate Bill 527. Representative Levin? Representative Levin? Out of the record. Senate Bill 569, Representative O'Connell? Representative O'Connell is not in the chamber. Representative Barnes, for what reason do you seek recognition? Although I notice your light isn't on."

"I just wondered if you would like me to run with the Bill so maybe we could get it to Third Reading."

"Is that acceptable with Representative O'Connell?" 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"He isn't here."

June 25, 1987 "Okay. Representative Barnes on Representative O'Connell's Bill. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 569, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. This Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Motions or Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative McCracken."

"Out of the... withdraw the Amendment. Any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. The next Bill is Senate Bill 570, Representative O'Connell. Representative Barnes. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill (sic Senate Bill) 570, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Criminal Procedure. This Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"No Floor Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, do you have a Calendar announcement?"

"Supplemental Calendar #2 is being distributed."

"The next Bill is Senate Bill 1025, Representative McNamara. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1025, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. This Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative McPike."

"Representative McPike." 28  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #1 is identical to House Bill 330 that we passed out, I believe, an unanimous Roll Call that was never heard in the Senate Committee. It adds physically handicapped to the statute that provides for a variety of different people like firemen, police officers, senior citizens, Judges, et cetera, and would add the physically handicapped to that part of the Statute that would make the battery an aggravated battery or give the option to the state's attorney to charge an individual who attacked a physically handicapped individual to charge the defendant with aggravated battery. So, I would move the adoption of the Amendment."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1025. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, •Shall Amendment #1 be adopted?. All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment's adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative McNamara."

"Representative McNamara, on Amendment #2.

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amendment #2 is a technical Amendment and cleanup language to the Bill. I move for its adoption."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1025. And on that question, the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm in favor of the Amendment. I have been advised that there is a technical problem with it, and I'm not sure how you'd like to handle it. Apparently, the deletion of lines 8 and 9 on page 2 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 are existing law, and it has to be set forth and overstricken. I don't know if it makes a difference. I'm not raising the point of order, but if you feel we should clean this up, I'd be happy to cooperate in that, and move the Bill on."

"Representative McCracken (sic McNamara), what is your pleasure?"

"Thank you for your help. We'll adopt the Amendment, we'll move it to Third, and then we'll bring it back with a cleanup Amendment."

"Representative McNamara moves for the... Representative McNamara, would you consider moving the Bill... withdrawing #2, moving the Bill to Third and then coming back, since the Amendment is clearly out of order?"

"That's the reason I have my speak light on."

"Very good. Representative McNamara withdraws Amendment #2. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. The next Bill is Senate Bill 1135, Representative Parke. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1135..."

"I called 1132. Representative Parke is the Sponsor."

"Senate Bill 1132, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unified Code of Corrections. This Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Rea."

"Representative Rea."

"Thank you. Madam Speaker and Members of the House. House Amendment #1 would repeal the FOID card. This is a... we've had a discussion on this on the floor of the House 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day before. June 25, 1987 We did send a Bill over to the Senate, and it got held up in Committee, and it's the... it would do exactly the same thing. The FOID card has not been effective. It has been a nuisance to the sportsmen, to the hunter, to the gun owners, and we would... it has also cost more money than it's really been worth, and it has served no real useful purpose, so I would ask for an 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1132. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"Yes, I would ask the Parliamentarian to look at the Amendment and see if it's germane."

"Could we see the Amendment, Mr. Clerk, and the Bill? Representative Rea, it's the Parliamentarian's decision that your Amendment is not germane. Representative Rea."

"This Amendment deals with Chapter 38, and it is related there under the Criminal Code, and I would ask that you take another look at it, Mr. Parliamentarian, because it does relate to the subject matter."

"The subject matter from the original Bill amends the Code of Corrections. Your Bill... your Amendment amends the Criminal Code. One Bill deals with sentencing. Your Bill deals with whether or not carrying an FOID card is a crime. They are different subject matters, and they amend different Codes. While they happen to be in the same statute is merely a decision of less law, so it's the Parliamentarian's decision that your Amendment is not germane. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative McCracken."

"Representative McCracken. Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?" 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative McCracken."

"Representative McCracken. Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. The next Bill is Senate Bill 1154, Representative Ewing. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1154, a Bill for an Act to impose a tax on cannabis and controlled substances. This Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"No Floor Amendments."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 1159, Representative Barnes. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1159, a Bill for an Act relating to polygraph examinations. This Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"No Floor Amendments."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 1181, Representative Leverenz. Representative Leverenz. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1181, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions or Amendments?"

"No Motions filed. Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative McCracken and Churchill."

"Representative McCracken. Representative McCracken."

"This... Yes, thank you. This Amendment clarifies the penalties which the ICC may impose on... oh, I'm sorry. 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day We'll withdraw this." June 25, 1987

"Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Cullerton."

"Representative Cullerton."

"I would withdraw that Amendment."

"Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Levin."

"Representative Levin? Representative Cullerton."

"Leave to offer Representative Levin's Amendment?"

"Does the Gentleman have leave? Hearing no objection, he has leave. Proceed, Sir."

"It refers to House Amendment #1 on page 1, and it deletes lines 6 and 7 and instead inserts the words the owner or operator of a relocated vehicle. The Amendment deletes reference to rates charged in connection with the release of the vehicle. Our concern... Representative Levin's concern was that they would add on charges not concerned with the release of a vehicle, which would raise the fees over the 45 dollar ceiling, so this Amendment makes clear that no fees can be charged which would be in excess of 45 dollars. I move for the adoption."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #4. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz."

"Would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Does the Senate Sponsor have any... is he in favor of this, or... Well, I just wanted to know, because when he 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 comes over here to talk to me about your Amendment, I want to know whether I should hide or tell him we did him a favor."

"Right. I know exactly what you're referring to. I think the fact that I'm handling the Amendment for Representative Levin should alleviate the problems."

"Madam Speaker?"

"Yes?"

"Who is the true Sponsor of the Amendment?"

"The Sponsor of the Amendment is Representative Levin. However, Representative Cullerton had leave from this Body to present the Amendment on behalf of the Gentleman."

"Representative Cullerton, are you going to get me in trouble? I'm starting to stutter, here."

"Immunity. You will have immunity."

"You provide immunity."

"For any bodily harm that could be inflicted upon you as a result of your allowing this Amendment to go on."

"Then, I agree to the Amendment."

"The Gentleman agrees to the Amendment. Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"I'm confused on this. I can't tell if we should be for this or against this. What is... What is the practical effect of this Amendment? Is this more restrictive than the original Bill?"

"No, it really is a clarifying Amendment. It makes sure that the 45 dollar ceiling remains intact. There was some concern about the way the language was drafted in Amendment #1 that there could be additional fees charged, and the Amendment clarifies that that's not the case."

"Alright. My analysis says that the rates may only be 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 charged to the business which employs the relocator. Oh, well. Alright. It... the special fees cannot be charged to the vehicle owner or operator. Correct?"

"Right. If you would look at Amendment #1, which is... refers to page 3 line 9 of the Bill. It deletes relocators, and it reads the following: 'provided that no such rates shall be charged to the owner or operator of a relocated vehicle in connection with the release of the vehicle.. So what Representative Levin wanted to do was to just strike the words 'in connection with the release of the vehicle', so that it will now read: 'provided that no such rate shall be charged to the owner or operator of a relocated vehicle.'"

"Okay. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #4 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #5, offered by Representative Slater."

"Representative Slater. Representative McCracken. Withdraw the Amendment."

"To save some time, Madam Speaker, we will withdraw 5 through 8."

"#5 through 8 are withdrawn. Are there any Amendments beyond #8, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #9, offered by Representative Leverenz."

"Representative Leverenz."

"The Amendment is technical in nature and cleans up other language. I would move for the adoption of the Amendment." 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment 09 to Senate Bill 1181. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, *Shall Amendment 09 be adopted?" All those in favor say 'aye", all those opposed say 'no". In the opinion of the Chair, the *ayes" have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 10, offered by Representative Leverenz."

"Representative Leverenz."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Due to the outstanding staff work done by Mrs. Ward on this Bill and many others in this House over the years, we would like to compliment her on all of the analysis she has prepared for the Appropriations Committee, and especially in Amendment #10, I had a spelling error, so I would move for the adoption of Amendment #10."

"The question is, *Shall Amendment #10 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #11, offered by Representative Leverenz."

"Representative Leverenz. Withdraw #11. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. The next Bill is Senate Bill 1192, Representative Terzich. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1192, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code. This Bill has been read a second time previously. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Are there any Motions or Amendments?" 36  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Clerk O'Brien: "No Motions filed."

"Any Amendments, Sir?" June 25, 1987

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Terzich."

"Representative Terzich."

"Withdraw Amendment #2."

"Withdraw 02. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Terzich."

"Representative Terzich."

"Yes, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment #3 adopts the Illinois Plan, which is a unique feature. It provides for uninsured motorists' victim injury compensation fund, which provides compensations to persons injured by someone not satisfying the requirements of the Illinois safety responsibility law, and I would move for its adoption."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #3 to Senate Bill 1192. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Countryman... the Gentleman from Dekalb."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He will."

"Certainly."

"Representative, if I... tell me if I understand this right. What would happen is, everybody would pay a fee to the Secretary of State which would go into a fund which would compensate people who are injured by uninsured motorists? Is that right?"

"That's correct."

"And what effect would that have upon existing 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day uninsured motorists' coverage? Is the...

"None whatsoever." n June 25, 1987

"So this would just exist in case the people didn't buy that coverage?"

"That's... That's correct. For people who apply for a license that states that they do... are not in compliance with the financial responsibility law, would make a deposit into this here fund which would... furnish up to 15,000 dollars of coverage for victims that were injured by an uninsured motorist."

"But don't we have a law now that says that there's a minimum coverage available... required...

"Under the uninsured motorists' coverage, there is, but this sets up a compensation for people that are injured by a person who is not insured."

"By a person... I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that. By a person who's not insured?"

"That's correct."

"So... But what I'm really interested in knowing is who would be covered under this who's not covered now under the law requiring 15,000 dollars worth of uninsured motorists' coverage?"

"Well, who would be covered by it is, it would set up a fund to provide benefits for people who are injured by uninsured motorists, and those funds would be provided by people who apply for their license plates and state that they are not insured under the state financial responsibility law and then would be required to make a deposit into the victims' compensation... uninsured victims' compensation fund. It will be a hundred dollars, and it would not alleviate them from the financial responsibility law."

"But if you buy the insurance, you have insurance, 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 and you're covered under the insurance, then the insurance would pay, or would they both pay?"

"The... the insurance would pay."

"And the fund... this fund would not pay."

"Correct." Countryman: policy

"It's only the person who doesn't have an automobile with uninsured motorists' coverage that would... " "That would be corrected and it also would cover victims of accidents, for example, pedestrians and so on that might be injured by an individual that's not covered for insurance as well."

"Well, that may be. If you own an uninsured motorists policy or are insured under it, many times you're covered as a pedestrian, but there are people that probably don't own a car that might not own a policy that might be injured, so there might be some... there might be some gap there in the coverage, but tell me once again. I'm having a hard time hearing. Who pays the hundred dollars, and when?"

"The person who is applying for a registration, license registration, that there would be a statement made on the application that whether or not that they have insurance on that vehicle. They stipulate that they do not, that they would stipulate that they would then deposit one hundred dollars into the Uninsured Motorists' Compensation Fund. This would also state that it does not alleviate them from the financial responsibility law. If the person then is involved in a... an accident and does not have any insurance, then what would happen, that he would be subject to a fine of up to two hundred dollars, his license would be suspended for noncompliance under the Uninsured Victims Compensation Act."

"And this is the same as a Bill you introduced? Is 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day that right?" June 25, 1987

"Yes, this is similar to a plan that was adopted in Virginia, and it's been working quite well."

"And that Bill didn't make it out of Committee, is that right?"

"That's correct."

"And do you know what the Secretary of State's position is on this?"

"No, I don't, but I'm sure he would be for it, because it's good government. It's a good Bill. It protects the consumers."

"Thank you. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Pedersen."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Representative Terzich has brought this over and discussed it with me, and I favor the Amendment. This plan does work. It does help the victim. It does not impact on the... adversely on the responsible motorist, but most important of all, it's not... it's not burdensome to the State of Illinois. There's no cost to the State of Illinois. It's aimed at the relatively small number of drivers who don't meet requirements of the safety responsibility law, drivers that we already deal with, and I urge passage of this Amendment."

"There being no further discussion, the question is, *Shall Amendment 3 be adopted?" Excuse me. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Williams, on the question."

"Would the Sponsor yield just briefly?"

"He indicates he will."

"Does this law... or does this Amendment apply only to people who... seem to be found under the responsibility of the... you know what I'm talking about. This isn't a 40  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 general sort of a mandatory insurance thing, is it?"

"No, it is not."

"Okay, and so it's only dealing with a limited group of people?"

"Well, those... basically people that state that they do not have insurance. There is nothing mandatory involved in this. It's a self-compliance."

"So, it's some sort of people in the high risk pool ог something?"

"It would not. It wouldn't alleviate anybody from the Financial Responsibility Act, however, it is not a mandatory type of a coverage. it's a compliance type coverage."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Fulton, Homer."

Representative Homer: "Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He wil1."

"Yes."

"Representative Terzich, this would seem to be a fairly significant Amendment in establishing public policy in the state."

"Thank you."

"The... we've had before us previous Sessions, each one I think I've been here, Representative Laurino has had legislation that would create mandatory automobile insurance."

"Yes."

"That Bill has never been able to pass both Houses, for whatever reason."

"Yes."

"And I understand from reading the paper that the Senate has now got some version of a mandatory insurance Amendment 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 that they've tacked onto a House Bill, coming back here."

"That's correct."

"But your... you have a different version or a different solution to the uninsured motorists problem in your Bill. Correct?"

"That's correct."

"And what you would do is say that anybody who did not have liability insurance and was not covered under the financial responsibility requirements, if you didn't fall into one of those two categories but you were a licensed driver in this state, then you would have to deposit one hundred dollars annually with the Secretary of State, to be put into the..."

"Representative Homer."

"Is that correct?"

"No, what the plan would do is that the... under the plan as based upon a successful Virginia system, uninsured motorists would contribute to a fund to pay the bodily injury claims of their victims. They are required to pay a hundred dollars at registration, or two hundred dollars if they are involved in an accident, and having falsely stated that they had insurance, in addition to all other safety responsibility penalties. The idea is to encourage every driver to buy insurance but not to compel it, and it helps uncompensated victims."

"So, what would happen is that the people who don't have insurance would have to pay a hundred dollars into this fund."

"They would be... they... well, they would fund the uninsured motorists victims compensation fund. They would fund it, yes."

"Then... Alright, then..."

"It does not relieve them of their financial... Everyone 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 in the State of Illinois under the financial responsibility law is required to have insurance at the present time."

"My questions aren't designed to be antagonistic. I'm really trying to understand what you're wanting to do, here."

"Certainly."

"Alright. So, we've got this fund that's created by all of these motorists paying in a hundred dollars."

"Yes."

"They offer this rather than insurance. Now, someone gets injured, if that person who got injured in an accident, the victim is... the person who's liable had no insurance, then that person could apply for recovery of expenses from this fund?"

"The... No, the... I mentioned that if they were covered under the... it wouldn't relieve the driver or the owner of the vehicle of any financial responsibility. Just because of the fact that they put into the fund does not relieve them of the financial responsibility. This Bill is set up to compensate those people who are injured by uninsured motorists."

"Alright, I understand that, and so the person... the victim may still sue the person who injured them?"

"That's correct."

"But what will the money be used for that is deposited in this fund?"

"The money that would be used to be deposited in the fund would be to compensate victims that were injured by an uninsured motorist."

"You're assuming that the.... that the uninsured motorist is insolvent or debt-proof and that the victims sues that uninsured motorist but can't collect a claim, so then he or she would then turn to this fund for compensation?" 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"That they could make a claim into the... into the fund."

"And who administers the fund?"

"Secretary of State."

"And what guidelines are there in your Amendment as to how much can be paid out to each victim and what the criteria is? Is that spelled out in the Bill?"

"The... yes, any award... it's basically under the law, no compensation shall be awarded from the fund in the amount in excess of 15,000 dollars for bodily injury or death of any one person or any one motor vehicle accident, and any award shall be reduced by payments already received from the party at fault or any amounts which have been paid or payable under any policy of liability, uninsured motorists' or Workmen's Compensation Insurance."

"Alright. Now, in other words, under current law, a driver who gets liability insurance is, in my understanding, also required to purchase uninsured motorists' insurance. That's current law."

"That's correct. That's correct."

"So, if a person got involved in an accident was a victim at the hands of an uninsured motorist, but the victim had his own uninsured motorist coverage... "

"Yes. There would be no compensation."

"Then, his company would pay and he wouldn't get anything out of this fund."

"That's correct."

"So, the only people you're talking about would be where the victim had no... where neither the offender nor the victim had any insurance."

"That's correct, and mainly, the pedestrians. For example, there... I believe there was approximately 9,000 pedestrians that were injured, involved in a... accidents 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day in Illinois in the last year." June 25, 1987

"And bringing this to a conclusion, I... where did this Terzich: Homer: idea come from?" "The program has been adopted in Virginia. The Virginia system has worked at least well or better than compulsory laws, and it doesn't seem to have any of the additional... beneficial features of the Illinois plan, only in Iowa where it's mandatory insurance, and North Carolina have a lower percentage of uninsured motorists than in Virginia. The plan has been working well in Virginia for a number of years, and this plan is adopted from that, and it's designed, as I mentioned to you, to make compensation for uninsured motorists." "Okay. Now, the provision, if somebody didn't pay into this fund and got in an accident, and it was his fault, what would be the sanctions imposed on that in the... " "Nothing. Nothing. I said that the fund is set... " Terzich:

"Representative Homer, bring your remarks to a Representative Terzich, answer the question, close. please."

"Alright, yes. What would happen is, if the person did not have any insurance and he did not contribute into the fund, then he would also, in addition to his financial responsibility penalties, which would probably be the revoke... revoking of his license, registration, so forth, until the claim has been satisfied under the present financial responsibility law that the Bill would provide that if he did not contribute into the... into the fund and he was not insured, then he would be subject to a fine up to 200 dollars as well as revocation, you know, within 15 days. If he did contribute into the fund, then that fine... and he was not insured, would only be 100 dollars rather than 200 dollars." 45  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"Thank you. Madam Speaker, just very the Sponsor for June 25, 1987 briefly to the Amendment, I applaud his obvious well intended effort at addressing a very serious problem that exists in the State of Illinois involving accidents that occur where the offending vehicle is an uninsured... has an uninsured motorist driver. That's a very serious problem in this state, and in a recent survey that I took of my constituents, 85 percent of those responding said that they would prefer... recommend a mandatory automobile insurance program for the State of Illinois, and I support that concept and have supported the efforts to implement a... a mandatory automobile insurance program for the State of Illinois where, as a condition of licensure, a motorist must first obtain liability insurance to protect people from injuries that may be incurred. I think that's the right approach. I think this is a hybrid kind of a method. It's one that's designed to look at the problem, but it really doesn't address in any significant way, the problem that would continue to result. I think it's unrealistic to think that we're going to have people who refuse to get liability insurance voluntarily contribute a hundred dollars into this fund... "

"Bring your remarks to a close, Sir."

"And for all of those reasons, and I would urge that we oppose the Gentleman's Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Parke. The timer is on."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen House. I think this is a good Amendment. I think it compliments the current law that we have. I think it's a of the responsible approach for the very reasons that Representative Preston brought out, that the people in Illinois want those that do not have insurance to have some 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 responsibility for their actions with an automobile. We have seen traditionally throughout the United States, where mandatory car insurance has been presented, that it has not worked, that it becomes very costly. This is a reasonable compromise, and I think it compliments the individual responsibility legislation that's on the books now. I ask for an aye vote on this positive Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Hill, Representative Regan."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He wil1."

"Representative, if a person does have uninsured motorists coverage, and usually it's 15 and 30, and he's hit by an uninsured motorist and his damages go over the 15,000 dollars of base coverage, isn't there any relief for him from this fund?"

"No, there is not. The... Like I stated before, that the fund is basically... is not going to alleviate any individual from their financial responsibility under the financial responsibility law. What the Bill basically would provide is compensation to victims who are injured by an uninsured motorist. This is not a mandatory insurance. It is not going to relieve anybody from having that insurance, and in addition, any award shall be reduced by payment already received payable under any other policy of liability, uninsured motorists or workmen's compensation law."

"Alright, thank you. To the Bill. In other words, what this is designed to do, then, is to put a penalty on people that do not have car insurance, and the penalty is 100 dollars a year. I think it's a good Bill. It's been proven in states like ours all over the United States that mandatory car insurance does not work. People simply... 47  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL AS SEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 that can't afford to pay for it now, won't be able to pay for it after we pass that law. In every case, it creates bureaucracy, additional taxes, an additional increase in the premiums, and I think this is a good compromise. I vote for an 'aye'... "

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"I've been advised, Madam Speaker, by the Secretary of State's Office, that the Secretary of State is opposed to this Bill and has been consistently opposed to the Bill, and I thought for purposes of debate, we would want everybody to know that. Thank you."

"Representative Terzich, to close."

"Yes, Madam Speaker, as I mentioned before, this is a very, very good piece of legislation. It's a consumer protection. It does provide benefits for uninsured motorists' victims that are presently not covered by any coverage in the State of Illinois, of which there's approximately 9,000 pedestrians involved in accidents in the State of Illinois. It is funded. It would not cost the state any money. It is set up by people that do not have insurance. It does not relieve them of any financial responsibility. It has worked in the State of Virginia, and a conservative actuarial estimate that indicates that payment of the noncompliance fee will generate approximately 15 million dollars annually, and the disbursements would be approximately seven million, and any of the balance would go into the General Revenue Fund. And I certainly think that this is a consumer protection Bill and certainly needed in the State of Illinois, and I would urge your support."

"The question is, Shall Amendment #3 be adopted? All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 vote 'no". Voting is open. Representative Williams, you have already spoken once in debate. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 28 voting 'aye', 71 voting 'no', and 2 voting 'present', and the Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 1280... Gary Hannig. Representative Hannig."

"Madam Speaker, on this last Roll Call, I noticed that my light worked on the board, but it's not working here on my desk, could maybe the electrician fix that for me?"

"Okay, we'll check the Roll Call to be sure. You were probably recorded. And then, Mr. Electrician, would you check Representative Hannig's desk? You were voting 'yes', Representative Hannig. The next Bill is Senate Bill 1283, Representative Matijevich. Clerk, read the Bill."

"On page 16 of the Calendar. Senate Bill 1283, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code. Second Reading of the Bill. There are no Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 01 is being offered by Representative McCracken."

"Representative McCracken."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amendment 01 would authorize the Secretary of State to extend a suspension or revocation, and in the case of a suspension, to extend it for a like period of time as that originally imposed, where a person is driving on a license suspended and the report sent to the Secretary of State is either a report of conviction, suspension... or not suspension... supervision 49  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 or other reports such as police reports required by law to be sent to the Secretary of State, and I move its adoption."

"The Gentleman has moved the adoption of Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1283. And on that question, the Gentleman from Lake, Representative Matijevich."

"Madam Speaker, I've discussed this with Representative McCracken. We're going to accept the Amendment now. Representative Cullerton and his legal staff over there are still analyzing this Amendment, and we've agreed to accept it, and then if it does cause problems, then we're going to bring it back and take it off. But for now, we agree with the Sponsor on the Amendment."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Giorgi."

"Mr. Speaker, (sic - Madam Speaker) I heard his explanation of the Amendment, but I think he left out a very, very important part of that Amendment, and I'm wondering if that was a deficiency on his part or intentional."

"I don't know what you're referring to."

"I'm referring to the new Section you're adding that maybe many of the lawyers in the House aren't aware of Section D."

"Oh, yes. You're right. I apologize. Section..."

"I think there's a lot to be said about that Amendment. Let's hear it."

"Section D can be used in any... allows these reports to be used in any criminal or civil proceeding."

"What reports?"

"The reports received by the Secretary of State. The 50  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 police reports are currently confidential for this purpose, and... "

"This Bill... this Act does away with the confidentiality. This allows a change in court procedures that has been there for 20 or 30 years. I'd like to know the genesis of the Amendment. What is the point... "

"The Secretary of State asked for it, and it... the Section provides that reports received by the Secretary may be used in civil or criminal trials resulting from a charge of Section 6-303, which is the suspension Section."

"Yes, but this goes further. This even allows you or the Secretary of State to ask for more additional reports so they can use that to revoke your license. This hasn't occurred in... this is a change that... Has the Bar Association approved of this?"

"I don't know that, but I'd like to correct one thing. The Secretary of State does not request these reports. Under current... "

"Yes, he does."

"No, no. Under current law, any supplemental reports may be sent in the discretion of the arresting authority."

"But it also provides that the Secretary of State may ask for additional information. But that's not the part I'm hung up on."

"Well, it... "

"Now... something in the court that hasn't been allowed and that we ought to know the genesis of it. Why does he want this? Is it true he wants to build concentration camps for these people convicted of DUIs?"

"No."

"Well, tell us a little... tell us a little about D. Where did D come from? My God, you're making a change in the court system that's been in place for 50 years." 51  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"That's right."

"Well, tell us why. Where's the... 03 June 25, 1987

"Because I was asked to by the Secretary's Office. If you don't like the public policy, let me make a public policy argument and see how you feel about it."

"I'd like you to speak to Chapter... the new Section you're including - Section D."

"Right."

"Speak to the Amendment. I don't need any philosophy this morning or any theological exhortations."

"Right. No, no. I have sought to explain the Amendment, and now you're asking me the genesis of the Amendment or why the Amendment. The Amendment is good public policy because these reports are required to be filed. These reports demonstrate that the person was driving an automobile while his license was suspended, and although they may be used in civil or criminal charges, that is limited to charges arising out of the driving while license suspended. It is a change in law. You're right."

"Tell me, was this a Bill sponsored by you that you never asked to be heard in Committee?"

"No, I asked it to be heard, but it was never called."

"You asked that it be heard, but it was never called."

"But... to my knowledge, it was not called because of opposition."

"Well, I think this is a horrible Amendment, and I think that many Members of the House aren't aware of what you're trying to do. You're changing a system that's been in... that's been court approved. There's precedents, case history on this, and you're changing the entire spectrum of the court thrust, and if the lawyers in the House don't care about it. I don't either, but I think they ought to be warned that you're really pulling a shot this morning in 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 adding Paragraph D to this Act."

"I'm glad you were here to bring that to our attention."

"Let it be on your conscience if you're going to continue in this fashion."

"Thank you, Representative."

"The Gentleman from McDonough... Excuse me. The Gentleman from McDonough, Representative Slater."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for questions?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative McCracken, the underlying Bill deals with preliminary sobriety tests which are given out in the field, not on our normal breathalyzer which is normally administered in the sheriff's office or in the police department."

"Yes."

"The Amendment which you propose, does it have anything to do with reporting the results of that to the Secretary of State?"

"No."

"Nothing at all?"

"No."

"Thank you very much. I agree with Representative Giorgi. We're talking about substantial change, and I'm sorry to see that this is an Amendment which is being accepted by the Sponsor, and I would urge its defeat."

"Representative McCracken, to close. Excuse me. Representative Cullerton, are you seeking recognition on this Bill?"

"Yes. Apparently, there's two parts to this Amendment, two basic changes. Could you explain the language on page five of the Amendment dealing with the 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 reports and their admissibility. As I read it, any report or investigative report received by the Secretary shall not be confidential and shall be used by the Secretary in accordance with Section 6-303, and then it says, 'Reports received by the Secretary under this Section may be used in civil or criminal trials resulting from a charge in Section 6-303. What does that last sentence mean, 'may be used in civil or criminal trials?'"

"I assume they'd be discoverable and used in accordance with the rules of evidence."

"Used for impeachment purposes, used..."

"Yeah, they... well, they'd be, you know, prior out of court statements, so presumably, they wouldn't be admissible because of heresay, so I believe the only use would be impeachment, but it's possible there would be other uses."

"Would there... does this mean that there would be no need for a foundation to introduce them?"

"No, I don't read it that way at all."

"So the person who made the report would have to be in court, subject to cross examination?"

"Yes."

"Okay. And then, with regard to the second part of the Bill, dealing with the ability of the Secretary of State to extend the suspension or revocation, this would be, after they have received a report of, say, a traffic accident."

"Correct."

"And there would not have had to have been a ticket issued against the driver. Is that correct?"

"Correct."

"Now, what if the report is totally inaccurate? What if the police write down on their report that Mr. Smith was 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 the driver when, in effect, Mrs. Smith was the driver. They get the report that Mr. Smith was the driver. His suspension is extended. What recourse does Mr. Smith have to contest the Secretary of State's decision to extend the suspension?"

"The... Well, there is no reference in here to a recourse for, you know, a faulty report, so the Bill does not address that issue."

"Is there some other section of the current statute that you're familiar with that deals with the... contesting the... a suspension of a license by the Secretary?"

"No."

"There must be some way in which you can contest the suspension of a driver's license if the information that has been given is inaccurate."

"There would be a hearing... there is a hearing afforded, and that issue could be raised at that time."

"Okay, and those are the hearings... these hearings cannot be held at any drivers' license facility, can they? You can have an informal hearing, or do you have to go to Springfield or Chicago to contest the..."

"I'm told they can be held at those facilities."

"Okay. Thank you."

"Representative Homer, on the Amendment."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Representative McCracken was courteous to come over before the... called the Bill to speak to Representative Cullerton and me. I don't think at the time, however, Representative McCracken had the opportunity to read the Section D that Representative Giorgi has brought to our attention in debate, and that Section certainly is one that drastically modifies and broadens the Secretary of State's authority as it does the prosecution authority in the issue of admissibility of 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 reports. The Section says the reports - we're talking about now accident reports made out by the police officer, and let me remind you that in 90 percent or more of the cases, the police officer did not witness the accident. These are reports that the police officer put together through heresay by examining witnesses at the scene, so the police officer puts together a police report that... submitted to the Secretary of State, and this Section says that those reports submitted by that police officer based on heresay will be used... it says, 'may be used in civil or criminal trials resulting from a charge of driving on a suspended license.' Now, that language is awfully broad, and it brings to question, what are we doing? Are we saying that it's admissible as to the truth of the matter set forth in the report in the prosecution's case in chief? If that's so, then it's a revolutionary new revision to the heresay rule that prevents these kind of reports from being admitted. We certainly don't want to create a situation where police reports are substituted for firsthand eye witness testimony in trials, especially where those reports are based upon, not the police officer's own observations, but based upon heresay evidence, so we've got a double heresay problem. The Bill is not carefully drafted, and it certainly would not make good law, and I think we should all rise to oppose the Amendment."

"Representative McCracken, to close."

"I'll withdraw it. Should I withdraw it? You want it withdrawn, John?"

"Representative Matijevich..."

"I told... I told Representative Matijevich if it ran into trouble, I would withdraw it. Is that your wish?"

"Yeah, I think after talking to Representative Cullerton, he said there would have to be another Amendment 56  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 to make it... tighten it up, and rather than do that, I would appreciate it if you would withdraw it."

"Yeah, that's fine. I'll do that."

"Thank you very much, Tom."

"Withdraw #1. Are there any further Amendments? Any further Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. The next Bill is Senate Bill 1316, Representative Cullerton. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1316, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions or Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2 is being offered by Representatives Countryman and Slater."

"Representative Countryman."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1316 establishes a special fund to enable the Department of Corrections to deposit and use monies received in the past for care and treatment of certain Cubans for school lunch reimbursement and other reimbursements. The FY '88 Department of Corrections appropriation is predicated upon collection of these funds, and it really establishes a revolving fund. I move its adoption."

"Representative Countryman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1316. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representatives 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day Countryman... June 25, 1987 I mean... correction, by Representative Cullerton and Daley."

"Representative Cullerton."

"Yes, I think I can present this Amendment even in a louder voice that Representative Countryman. This requires the Department of Corrections to develop and establish a suicide reduction program in all institutions and facilities housing juveniles to increase life-coping skills and self-esteem. I move for the adoption of the Amendment."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #3 to Senate Bill 1316. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, *Shall Amendment #3 be adopted?" All those in favor say *aye', all those opposed say 'no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representatives Cullerton and Petka."

"Representative Cullerton."

"Did he say Cullerton and Petka?"

"That's what he said. What a combination."

"Thank you. Well, we did work on... "

"Oh, by the way, Representative Petka denies it. He's over here shaking his head."

"Well, he can remove his name if he wants, but I think he's in agreement with it. It was worked out with the Counsel for the Department of Corrections. After they initially proposed it, we did have some corrections to it. The Amendment changes the Section in the Code of Corrections outline the responsibilities and the duties of the Department of Corrections. Under the Amendment, the Department of Corrections subpoena power is extended beyond 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 its current authorized use in investigating employee misconduct to include misconduct of committed persons. In addition, the Department is granted subpoena powers in order to investigate the assets of committed persons in order to aid the Department into filling its statutory obligations to seek reimbursement from committed persons who are able to afford to pay. The subpoena power is also extended to authorize subpoenas in connection with investigations of parole violations. Under this Amendment, they can subpoena persons and records, but only if there's reason to believe that such procedures would provide evidence that such violations have occurred. and it also authorizes the Department of Corrections to seek a contempt of court ruling if one of its subpoenas is not honored, and they can seek such a ruling in any Circuit Court. The Department of Corrections has asked for this Amendment in that it... extending the subpoena power so as to increase the Department's ability to enforce its own rules, and with regard to the expansion of the authority, it would be a valuable tool in aiding the enforcement of the Department's rules against unauthorized financial transactions, so I would move for the adoption of the Amendment."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #4 to Senate Bill 1316. And on that question, the Gentleman from Dekalb, Representative Countryman."

"Thank you, Representative Cullerton. You, I think, almost recited that in a lower voice than I did."

"I absolutely disagree. I think I was much clearer and louder, and now I have to, on Third Reading, explain your Amendment to the rest of the Body, and it's going to be very difficult."

"You've got an able assistant over there, a very pretty one that will help you. This standard of reason to 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 believe that's provided for the subpoena that's now... would be allowed, is that a standard that you, as the afferor of this Amendment, would have any indication of what sort of intent you have? Is there some sort of probable cause standard that there's some belief that there's probable cause that the procedures would provide some evidence that a violation has occurred?"

"Well, I wouldn't equate it with probable cause, but the original concern when the language was originally proposed was... the concern was that they could just go off, and anybody who was released from the penitentiary, they could just follow them around and subpoena them back whenever they wanted. So, we just basically are asking for some facts be known before they could seek to enforce the subpoena, some facts that would make it relevant to subpoena the information."

"Some facts... I mean, somebody can conjure something up that's even a... you know, has no real basis. It just says, you know, we think this guy violated something just because we think that he didn't look good or something like that. Don't they have to have some reasonable standard, here?"

"Well, that... that's... the language is admittedly broad, the production of documents only if there is reason to believe that such procedures would provide evidence. A reasonable ... standard should apply. that's what the word 'reason to believe' is intended to mean."

"So, you would say there has to be, in the mind of a reasonable man, some reason to believe the violation occurred. Is that right?"

"That... That the procedures would provide some evidence. Right."

"And in essence, you are saying, maybe not a probable 60  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE cause but a reasonable man standard."

"That's correct." June 25, 1987

"Alright. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment 64 be adopted?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment's adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Ladies and Gentlemen, I'd like your attention. We have a special introduction being made by Representative Martinez, of three Congressmen from Ecuador. Representative Martinez."

"Thank you, Madam Chairman, Members of the House. I have the distinct pleasure to introduce to you three Members of the Congress from Ecuador. They're here on a good will tour. I'd appreciate a nice warm welcome for them. The three Congressmen are named Mr. Androtti, Mr. Delgato and Mr. Pasmino. Mr. Pasmino will address the House now."

"It is a real pleasure for the Ecuadorian Congress to be able to give a special greeting to our brothers here in the State of Illinois, especially because we are here visiting the land of one of the greatest statesmen that the world has know, which is Lincoln. We hope that now, since we're celebrating a very special anniversary of the Constitution of the United States, and especally now that we're remembering all the peoples of the world in democracy, that we make a special effort to remember the people of the third world, especially Latin America. You will always be welcome in our country, Ecuador, and I hope you will be there very soon, and we're very grateful, and thank you very much." 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

June 25, 1987 "I would just like to add a few more words, and just to point out why bilingual education is very important. Thank you."

"Representative Hallock."

"Yes, (speaks Spanish)."

"Okay, now you need an interpreter. The next Bill on the Special Order of the Administration of Justice is Senate Bill 1355, Representative Giorgi. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1355, a Bill for an Act to amend the Juvenile Court Act. Second Reading of the Bill. There are no Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1, being offered by Representative Giorgi."

"Representative Giorgi."

"Clerk, are there more than one Amendments?"

"Yes, there are two Amendments."

"Table... Let's withdraw Amendment #1, because Amendment #3 would be the Amendment... is there an Amendment #2? By who? Withdraw it."

"Withdraw #1 and #2. Is there a third Amendment? Representative Giorgi, there is not a third Amendment."

"What's the LRB number? I have an LRB number of 8505723. What Amendment should that be?"

"8505723. Neither of these have a..."

"It was written by the Department of Law Enforcement. I don't want to lose this Amendment, because I wanted to show how the Department of Law Enforcement and their mentality can write a rational Amendment, and people from the Secretary of State's Office write the demented Amendments. I wanted this to really show." 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"He don't have... the two Amendments that have been filed, Representative, have no numbers on them."

"Well then, hold the Bill because this was written by the Department of Law Enforcement, and I want to include it in the Bill."

"Very good. Out of the record. Hold the Bill on... withdraw 1 and 2 and hold the Bill on Second Reading. The next Bill is Senate Bill 1365, Representative O'Connell. Out of the record. Senate Bill 1370, Representative O'Connell. Out of the record. Senate Bill 1375, Representative O'Connell. Out of the record. Senate Bill 1376, Representative Brunsvold. Representative Brunsvold. Clerk, read the Bill."

"On page 8 of the Calendar, Senate Bill 1376, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representative Brunsvold."

"Representative Brunsvold."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #1 was suggested by our technical staff to clear up the definition of loco parentis regarding the... and regarding the victim, and I would ask for the adoption of Amendment #1."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1376. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, •Shall Amendment #1 be adopted?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, being offered by Representative 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day McCracken."

"Representative McCracken."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. June 25, 1987 Floor Amendment 2 is the same as House Bill 2480, except that it adds an affirmative defense for librarians acting within the scope of their employment. This Bill sets forth a procedure for forfeiture of assets used in connection with pornography or obscenity. This matter was considered by the House and passed before except for that affirmative defense. This allows for the preservation of the property in question by means of a preliminary injunction or temporary restraining order. However, any hearing on the forfeiture cannot occur until and unless there is a conviction for obscenity, and the property subject to the forfeiture is limited to that used in the commission of the offense and that which constitutes the obscenity."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1376. And on that question, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative Brunsvold."

"Thank you. Would the Gentleman yield?"

"He will."

"Representative, was this Bill defeated on the floor or in Committee... is there... "

"No, it...

19 Brunsvold: "Is there any controversial items in this?" McCracken: in "It passed out of here with 81 votes. It stalled the Senate and... in the Senate Committee where it was a 5-5 vote. The Senate Sponsor told me it was because the librarians were against it, so we put in this affirmative defense for librarians, which was identical to the one they have for child pornography, and with that, they have no opposition to the Bill." 64  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987

"Have you checked with Senator Joyce to see if he would accept this Amendment?"

"No, I haven't."

"I've got Senator Joyce's young son sitting next to me, here, and I have to be very careful, Representative. He's going to report back to his dad. Would you think that this would cause any problem? I don't have any objection to the Amendment. If it's going to cause a problem on Senator Joyce's Bill, I would just as soon not accept the Amendment, but what would be your best appraisal of that situation?"

"Well, you know, it was a 5-5 vote in Committee. I wasn't present for it. I can only tell you what I've been told. I don't know if it's controversial with this affirmative defense added to it. If it becomes controversial over there, if he will not concur, I would recede from this if this were the problem."

"With that commitment, I would not object to Representative McCracken's Amendment."

"The Gentleman from McDonough, Representative

Slater. Slater: "Thank you, Madam Speaker. This Amendment, while it may have been opposed by the librarians, deals with the very serious subject of obscenity, and whether it makes any difference to you, Representative Brunsvold, I can fairly well represent that the American Civil Liberties Union had some serious problems with this Bill, and I think a number of the Legislator/Members would also have serious problems, if they knew what it really contained. I think that it's going to cause problems for the ultimate passage of your Bill. That's a representation to you. Thank you very much."

"Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, 65  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 Representative McCracken, to close."

"Ask for a favorable vote."

"The question is, "Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?° All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 91 voting 'aye', 5 voting 'no', and 7 voting 'present'. And the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 1381, Representative DeJaegher. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1381, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representative DeJaegher."

"Representative Dejaegher."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Members of the General Assembly. Amendment #1 is basically a technical Amendment that was requested by the Judiciary II Committee. To the best of my knowledge, there is no opposition to this Amendment, and basically, the underlying word is 'any'."

"The question is, Shall Amendment #1 be adopted to Senate Bill 1381?' And on that question, all those in favor say 'aye", all those opposed say "no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 1393, Representative Hannig. Representative Hannig. Clerk, read the Bill." 66  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

June 25, 1987 "Senate Bill 1393, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to the Department of State Police. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"There are none."

"Third Reading. With leave of the Body, I'd like to go back to Senate Bill 1355. Clerk, read the Bill."

Speaker Giorgi: "Senate Bill 1355, a Bill for an Act to amend the Juvenile Court Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendments #1 and 2 were withdrawn." Breslin "With... Amendment #2 has been withdrawn. Representative Giorgi." "Madam Speaker, I'd like to apologize to the House for the consternation caused by this... reading the wrong Bill. Amendment #1 must be tabled because the language was not underlined... the new language was not underlined, and Amendment #2 is the same as Amendment #1, and Amendment #2 requires the sentence of probation when a juvenile has been adjudicated delinquent for a commission of a Class X felony prescribed as a minimum term of probation. This has been worked out in Committee, and I want to adopt Amendment #2, which is the correct Amendment. Amendment #2."

"Representative Giorgi has withdrawn Amendment #1 and asks that Amendment #2, previously withdrawn, be reinstated. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, the Gentleman has leave, so he has asked for the adoption of Amendment #2. And on that question, the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"This requires at least a five year sentence of probation if they're not committed to the Department of 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 68th Legislative Day Giorgi: Corrections?" "That's correct."

"Where does this Amendment go? It says page 5, line 18. Oh, I see. You add it as a subsequent clause... 'except as provided for a person who is found... Okay, I understand."

Speaker Breslin: "The question is, "Shall Amendment #2 be adopted? All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

Speaker Breslin: "Third Reading. Going back to the Regular Order, the next Bill is Senate Bill 1397, Representative Flowers. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1397, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Second Reading of the Bill. There are no Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"There are none."

Speaker Breslin: "Third Reading. Senate Bill 1407, Representative McNamara. Representative McNamara. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1407, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unified Code of Corrections. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendments #1 and 2 were adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions?"

"No Motions filed."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3 is being offered by Representative McNamara."

"Representative McNamara."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. 68  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Amendment #3 is a technical Amendment which cleans up the intent that we had in Committee by fully deleting the last portion involving look-alike drugs. It was an agreement that we made, and this just cleans up that agreement fully. I move for its adoption."

"The question is, 'Shall... the Gentleman has asked for the adoption of Amendment 3 to Senate Bill 1407. Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"I think inadvertently we were discussing a different Amendment. This is the substantive Amendment, I believe."

"Representative McNamara."

"Yes, this Amendment will be withdrawn."

"Withdraw #3. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #4 is being offered by Representative McCracken."

"Representative McCracken."

"This provides that where an addict is eligible to elect treatment in lieu of prosecution, that the election must be made within 60 days after arraignment. Currently, the election can be made at any time right up to the beginning of the trial, and the purpose of this Amendment is to obviate the need of gearing up for the trial, only to be told on the day of trial that the defendant was opting for treatment, so this would provide that the election should be made within... or must be made within 60 days after arraignment."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #4 to Senate Bill 1407. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, *Shall Amendment #4 be adopted?* All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment's adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 25."

"Representative McNamara."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is the Amendment that I was explaining in the first place which takes a technical... it's a technical Amendment which removes some of the final language that we had in regards to look-alike drugs. We made that agreement in Committee. This accomplishes that fact, and I move for its adoption."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #5 to Senate Bill 1407. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #5 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment's adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #6 is being offered by Representative McNamara."

"Representative McNamara. Does anybody have a copy of Amendment #6? Can they give it to Representative McNamara?"

"Could we take this out of the record for a few minutes and let's clear up as to what it's doing?"

"Surely. Out of the record. Senate Bill 1407 is out of the record. Senate Bill 1410, Representative Daley. Out of the record. Senate Bill 1412, Representative O'Connell. Out of the record. Senate Bill 1496, Representative Phelps. Clerk, read the Bill. Oh, excuse me. Representative O'Connell is here. Senate Bill 1412, Representative O'Connell."

"Senate Bill 1412, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unified Code of Corrections. Second Reading of the Bill. 70  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions or Amendments?"

"There are no Motions filed, nor any Amendments."

"Third Reading. With leave of the Body, I'd like to go back to Senate Bill 1410. Representative Granberg asks leave to present that Bill for Representative Daley. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, he has leave. Read the Bill on Second, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1410, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to amend the Bill of Rights of Victims and Witnesses of Violent Crime Act. Second Reading of the Bill. There are no Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representative Bowman."

"Representative Bowman, on Amendment #1."

"Leave to withdraw Amendment #1."

"Withdraw #1. Are there any further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. The next Bill is Senate Bill 1496, Representative Phelps. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1496, a Bill for an Act to amend the Environmental Protection Act. Second Reading of the Bill. There are no Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representatives McPike and Phelps."

"Representative McPike."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is really a cleanup Amendment. The Bill amends the EPA Act to redefine the crime of calculated criminal disposal of hazardous waste. And this adds 71  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 *knowingly and it adds that the disposal would also impose an immediate or long-term danger to the public health or to the environment."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1496. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, *Shall Amendment #1 be adopted?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2 is being offered by Representative Phelps."

"Representative Phelps. Representative Phelps."

"Thank you. Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #2 further cleans up what... by deleting the word 'serious' and inserting in lieu thereof: 'great'."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1496. And on that question, the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"It doesn't appear to be much distinction, but is... I mean, what is the significance of changing the adjective?"

"I believe some of the people that were involved in the creation of this legislation were thinking that the word 'great' was a little bit less of a problem in court than 'serious' has been in the past."

"Okay. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?" 72  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL AS SEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Clerk Leone: "There are no further Amendments."

Speaker Breslin: "Third Reading. June 25, 1987 Senate Bill 1497, Representative Kulas. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1497, a Bill for an Act to amend the Environmental Protection Act. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representative O'Connell."

"Representative O'Connell."

"Thank you, Mr... Thank you, Madam Speaker. Floor Amendment #1 was the subject of a Bill that had been defeated. It provides that disposal shall also include the abandonment of waste or hazardous waste. It also addresses the issue of the unauthorized use of hazardous waste so that it provides for criminal penalties for not only the disposing of hazardous waste but also the illegal usage of hazardous waste. I would ask for its favorable adoption."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1497. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #1 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

Speaker Breslin: "Third Reading. Senate Bill 1513, Representative Capparelli. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1513, a Bill for an Act to amend the Trusts and Trustees Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Representative... Excuse me. Are there any Motions or Amendments?" 73  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"No Motions filed. Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Ewing."

"Representative Ewing. Representative Ewing. Representative McCracken asks leave to present Representative Ewing's Amendment. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, he has leave. Representative McCracken."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. With respect to trust estates which terminated and were distributed more than 10 years prior to the effective date of this Act, this Amendment would make the final accounting binding unless the beneficiary or person claiming institutes an action within two years of the effective date of the Act, or if the trustee is guilty of fraudulent concealment, in which case the beneficiary or person claiming may bring the action within the time limited by Section 13-215 of the Code of Civil Procedure."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1513. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Ladies and Gentlemen, I'd like to go back to the top of this call to pick up Bills that were missed, so we're staying on the Order of the Special Order of Administration of Justice. The first Bill is Senate Bill 192, Representative O'Connell. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 192, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code. Second Reading of the Bill. 74  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL AS SEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions or Amendments?"

"No Motions filed. Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative O'Connell."

"Representative O'Connell."

"Madam Speaker, may I have leave at this time to table Amendment #1 that was adopted in Committee?"

"You wish to table Amendment #1?"

"Yes, Madam Speaker."

"The Gentleman moves to table Amendment #1 that was adopted in Committee? Is there any discussion? Hearing none... "

"Madam Speaker?"

"Yes."

"May I address that tabling Motion?"

"Yes."

"The reason that Amendment #1 was adopted in the first place, Madam Speaker, was to encourage and perpetuate some discussions that were going on between the Secretary of State's Office, the Cook County State's Attorney's Office and the defense bar represented by the Chicago Bar Association and the Illinois State Bar Association. The Amendment had on it certain provisions which I did not like, nor did I intend to pursue. It was simply placed on to encourage some fruitful discussions between the offices which I have just mentioned. Those discussions have achieved certain agreed upon changes in the DUI laws of this state that would encourage efficient administration of the laws, but at this point, there seems to be a deadlock on certain procedural matters that I wish to hold and continue the talks during the summer months. So, Madam Speaker. that is the reason I wish to table Amendment #1, and following that, I make a Motion to withdraw the balance 75  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 of the Amendments and ask that I have leave to place the Bill in Interim Study."

"Very good. Does the Gentleman have leave to table Amendment #1? All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it, and Amendment #1 is tabled. How many Amendments are filed, and are they all filed in Representative O'Connell's name, Mr. Clerk?"

"Amendments 2 through 7 are sponsored by... with the exception of Amendment 6, which is sponsored by McCracken and O'Connell."

"Representative O'Connell withdraws Amendments 2, 3, 4, 5 and 7. Representative McCracken, what is your pleasure? On Amendment #6."

"I guess I'll withdraw it."

"Withdraw #6. Representative O'Connell now asks leave to put this Bill, Senate Bill 192, into Interim Study. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, the Gentleman has leave and the Bill will be placed in Interim Study. The next Bill is Senate Bill 527, Representative Levin. Out of the record. The next Bill is Senate Bill 1365, Representative O'Connell. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1365, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Second Reading... this Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative... Amendment #1 was tabled previously. Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative McCracken."

"Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 1370, 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Representative O'Connell. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1370, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. This Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Motions or Amendments?"

"No Motions or Amendments."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 1375. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1375, a Bill for an Act to amend the Unified Code of Corrections. This Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Floor Amendments?"

"No Floor Amendments."

Speaker Breslin "Third Reading. Senate Bill 1407, Representative McNamara. Clerk, read the Bill."

"This Bill has been read a second time previously. Amendments... 3 was withdrawn. Amendment 4 and 5 were adopted. Floor Amendment #6, offered by Representative McNamara."

"Representative McNamara."

"Thank you. Withdraw Amendment #6."

Speaker Breslin "Withdraw #6. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

Speaker Breslin "Third Reading. On the Special Order of Administration of Justice, Third Reading, the first Bill is Senate Bill 126, Representative Cullerton. Out of the record. Senate Bill 508, Representative Slater. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 508, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Slater."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the 77  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 House, two years ago we passed a Bill which provided severe penalties for smuggling contraband into state prisons. What we failed to do was provide for the same type of penalties for the possession of that contraband on the inside of penal institutions. That's what this Bill would do. Amendment #1 was a technical cleanup Amendment. Amendment #2 would allow that the Director of the Department of Corrections could increase the amount of salary reimbursements to public... excuse me... to state's attorneys in counties where extraordinary services have been performed by state's attorneys. I move its passage."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 508. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 508 pass? All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 103 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 827, Representative Giorgi. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 827, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to firearms. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Giorgi."

"Madam Speaker, it seems like the only way to get a Bill called is get in the Criminal Justice Section, so, you know, the lawyers really have a field day on the rest of us around here. But Madam Speaker, I'd like leave of the House to move Senate Bill 827 back to Second Reading for the purpose of an Amendment."

"The Gentleman asks leave to return this Bill to the Order of Second for the purposes of an Amendment. Does 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 he have leave? Hearing no objection, he has leave. Are there any Amendments filed, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Giorgi."

"Representative Giorgi."

"Madam Speaker, this is an Amendment I alluded to earlier when I said ... when rational people write Amendments. Now, this Amendment was written by the Department of Law Enforcement as opposed to an Amendment written by the Secretary of State's... demented corps... This is a beautiful Amendment, McCracken. The Department of Corrections... Department of State Police wrote this Amendment. You ought to have them write yours. This has to do with a FOID card. What the original Act said was that after a 20 year... after... within 20 years of the applicant's application for a firearm owner's Identification card or at least 20 years have passed since the end of any period of imprisonment imposed in relation to that conviction would indicate that you can receive a FOID card, and then, the Department of State Police has hearings so that people don't have to serve that 20 years to receive a FOID card. It's a very good Amendment. It clears up some of the problems in the FOID Act, and I urge the adoption of the Amendment."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #3 to Senate Bill 827. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz."

"Will the Gentleman yield?"

"Yes."

"He will."

"This is the "How to get your early gun Amendment?"

"Depends on what an early gun is."

"Could you just... who has the hearings?" 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day Giorgi: June 25, 1987 in "The Department of Law Enforcement conducts hearings the event you want to appeal from something that's cropped up in your past record, and isn't that serious so that you should be denied a FOID card."

"Can you give us some examples?"

"Well, there's... they're going back now... when you apply for your FOID card, the computer's kicking out an infraction maybe 20, 30 years ago, and it wasn't severe enough to deny you a FOID card, but the Department of Law Enforcement, to be safe, will conduct a hearing to see that... for sure that that was not an incident that should deny you a FOID card."

"Does the Secretary of State have any position on this Bill?"

"If the Secretary of State had a position on this Bill, you'd never get a gun the rest of your life."

"That's enough for me."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Pullen. Representative Pullen."

"Thank you. I'd like to ask the Sponsor a question or two."

"Proceed."

"Does the underlying Bill say that you can get a FOID card even if you were convicted of a forcible felony as long as that was 20 years ago?"

"In that Section, it reads... are you reading that Section, Penny?"

"I'm looking at the Amendment, but I'm asking you a question about the underlying Bill so that I can put the Amendment in context. Does the underlying Bill say that you can't... "

"After... if you've spent your time in jail, it's been 20 years since the commission of that crime, then you can 80  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 qualify for a FOID card."

"Since the commission of the crime, or since the conviction?"

"It says 'within 20 years of the applicant's application for a firearm or at least 20 years have passed since the end of any period of imprisonment imposed in relation to that conviction."

"Okay, so it's 20 years after you get out of jail, presumably."

"That's right."

"You indicated that the State Police would have to have a hearing if you want to get a FOID card less than 20 years."

"That is correct, but it's not..."

"Where in the Amendment is the hearing provided for?"

"It's in that Section."

"Where in the Amendment is the hearing provided for? I don't mean where in the state, where in the... where in the Amendment is that?"

"It's in the Section... what we're doing, we're putting the language in the FOID Act and the Department of Law Enforcement wrote this so it goes back... it goes into the FOID Act and in the Criminal Act. It's Section 38, Paragraph 24-31 is the Criminal Code."

"Well, this says, "Any person prohibited from possessing a firearm or acquiring a FOID card may apply to the Director of the State Police requesting a release from such prohibition, and the Director may grant such relief if it is established by the applicant to the Director's satisfaction that the applicant has not been convicted of a forcible felony under the laws of the state or any other jurisdiction within 20 years of the applicant's application for a FOID card, or at least 20 years have passed since the end of any period of imprisonment imposed in relation to 81  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 that conviction." Where in here does it say that he has to have a hearing on it? Isn't it... "

"The present law, 83-10, has a hearing. This is... the present law has a hearing in it. It's 83-10. The present law has the hearing in it."

"Okay, but what you are providing by this Amendment is giving someone... I'm trying to understand it. Are you providing, by this Amendment, that someone may receive a FOID card less than 20 years after the end of their imprisonment if they can show the Director they have good reason for it, or that the crime wasn't that rough after all?"

"Now, you must... it must have been 20 years unless you have a hearing by the Department of Law Enforcement. It must be 20 years, or you won't receive a FOID card."

"Under the Bill."

"That's right."

"The current law is that you don't get a FOID card... "

"At all."

"If you were convicted of a forceful felony, ever."

"Now, you can have a hearing and get it."

"This Bill would allow them to get one 20 years after the end of their imprisonment."

"That's right. That's right."

"Or less than that if they have a hearing."

"That's correct."

"But it's only those that are convicted of forcible felonies that would be precluded to begin with, right? So what you're saying is that someone, under this Amendment, that someone who has been convicted of a forcible felony, would be able, if he could persuade the Director of State Police that he should have one, to get a FOID card less than 20 years... " 82  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"No."

"It's... I think this Amendment waters down the Bill, and that's unfortunate. I think the Bill is a good one. Thank you."

"It's not less than 20 years. 20 years must elapse."

"The Gentleman from McLean, Representative Klemm."

"That's from McHenry, but that's alright."

"I'm sorry, Representative."

"A question, Representative, if I may. How does a person go about receiving this hearing if it's less than 20 years since the conviction or since release?"

"In any instance where your FOID card is denied you, you can request a hearing, in any instance."

"You have to be denied first?"

"You have to be denied first for a hearing, yes."

"Now, that doesn't make sense. Alright. Right now, you're denied a FOID card. If you wait 20 years after you're released, you could apply and receive a FOID card, under this Amendment..."

"Under the Amendment that I'm putting on the Bill."

"And also if you have a hearing between the first and twentieth year and they grant you a hearing, you possibly could get it. How do you get that hearing? Is it a request by that person?"

"Here's what happens. Here's what happens. You apply for your FOID card. What's been happening is, since we enacted the law, they have been not scrutinizing most of the applicants. Now, they're getting to the point where anything that you might have done previously, a misdemeanor or whatever, it kicks up and it shows that you've had some kind of a criminal charge against you, so your FOID card is denied you. Then you wonder why you didn't get your FOID 83  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL AS SEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 card, and they send you a letter telling you there's a hearing application that you can apply and have yourself a hearing so that you can be granted a FOID card because the criminal act that you perpetrated was not that severe."

"Would the applicant have to request that himself?"

"Yes, he does. He gets a letter of notification."

"Fine. Is that... and is it clear in the Amendment? it a written request, and then the State Police Director would have to have the hearing. Right?" Is Giorgi:

"He's entitled to a hearing." "What... I mean, he's required to have the hearing? It cannot be denied?"

"He can request the hearing."

"It cannot be denied.

"Generally, it isn't denied."

"Fine. Fine."

"In my practice of business, it's never been denied."

"Fine. I'm supporting your Amendment. I just wanted the clarification for those that didn't... didn't want to wait 20 years, that's all. Alright, thank you."

Speaker Breslin: "The question is, Shall Amendment #3 be adopted?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no". Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 85 voting 'aye', 16 voting 'no'... Braun votes 'no". Representative Cowlishaw Representative votes 'aye". Representative Horrow changes his vote from 'aye' to "no". Anyone else? Representative Braun... Representative Breslin... Representative Barnes votes 'aye'. They all look alike, you know. Representative Barnes votes 'aye'. Okay, is everybody recorded the way he or she wants to? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 85 voting 'aye", 17 voting "no", and 84  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day the Amendment Amendments?" June 25, 1987 is adopted. Are there any further

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Giorgi asks leave for immediate consideration to present Senate Bill 827 as amended. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, he has leave. Read the Bill on Third, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 827, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Criminal Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Giorgi."

"Madam Speaker, I think the question has been cleared up for Representative Pullen, so I urge the adoption of Senate Bill 827."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 827. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 827 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 91 voting 'aye', 13 voting 'no', and 3 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 909, Representative Regan. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 909, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Criminal Justice Information Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Madam Speaker and Members of the House, Senate Bill 909 was requested by the Criminal Justice Information Department and the Department of State Police. It seems that we've been authorizing a considerable number of agencies, public, private, non-profit, governmental, to request criminal information from the State Police. They 85  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 are in a nightmare trying to figure out and filter through the different requests. So this gives them the... the form, the manner and the fees for requesting and furnishing criminal information history record, and I urge its adoption."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 909. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 909 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 97 voting 'aye', 5 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 926, Representative O'Connell. Representative O'Connell. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 926, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to the Illinois Department of State Police. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative O'Connell."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Senate Bill 926 is the Illinois Uniform Conviction Information Act. This Bill was a product of numerous hours worked on by various public and private organizations who are interested, either from a law enforcement standpoint or from an employer's standpoint to provide central access information to conviction information. Presently, one, anyone can obtain information on a conviction history of a person simply by making a request with the respective county which... in which the venue of the conviction occurred. Many Members of the Judiciary Committee, I think, were surprised, as was I, to know that this information is presently available. One raises the question, well, why should criminal information 86  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 be made available to anyone who asks, but it is public information, and it does provide for very important employment information to back up positions that are being offered as positions of trust and importance to various companies, so therefore, an individual who may have had a theft record, that information certainly should be made available to that employer who's placing that individual in a position of trust. Perhaps the person doesn't deserve that position of trust, based upon criminal background. So what this does is, it places in the Office of the Department of State Police an access information which is subject to strict guidelines as to notice, strict guidelines as to what the information is for and who is making the application. It is very scrutinizing to make certain that the information is applicable to the respective defendant in the criminal case based upon a fingerprint identification. So, it has a number of provisions that provide a certain element of truthfulness... a strong degree of truthfulness as the information is being given, and selectivity as to whom it's being given to. So, I would be happy to answer any questions. I would also suggest that Representative Ryder is the hyphenated Chief Sponsor of this Bill, and I'm certain that he would... I would defer to Representative Ryder, if he's in a better position to answer the question."

"The Gentleman has moved... the Gentleman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 926, and on that question, is there any discussion? The Lady from Sangamon, Representative Hasara."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative Ryder will yield to questions. Is that correct? Very good. Proceed." 87  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"Representative, could you tell me exactly how this would work. For instance, I have an employer in my district that has a janitorial service that has been very concerned about having access to this kind of information. Could you tell me how he could get this, what the turnaround time might be, and how much it would cost him?"

"Representative, the circumstances now are in place for a central registry for this kind of information. As you are well aware, prior to this time, in order to get this kind of information, it would have been necessary to visit all 102 counties in the State and then rely on each of those counties to open public records, making searches, and perhaps giving correct or incorrect information. By having a central registry of this information and a standardized form, this information would then be available and in the situation that you describe of a person who would request this information sheet for employment, they would obtain from the prospective employee a signed document saying, "I understand that my prospective employer is going to ask for this information." They would then acquire that information and, by this law, the prospective employer would give a copy to the applicant, the prospective employee, and the employee would then have seven days in which to examine and to tell the employer that it's right or wrong. If it's false or there's some incorrect information, obviously they would wish to correct that. If there were... if they say nothing after seven days, the employer then has the ability to assume that the document is correct and to make a judgment of employment based on that information. If the employer obtains that information without giving the copy to the applicant, then the employer is subject by law to prosecution for liability under the human rights violations and other parts of our law. So 88  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 that's how it works in an employment situation."

"Where will the central registry be?"

"Department of State Police."

"In Springfield or in Chicago?"

"I'm not sure that that decision has been made."

"Okay. Do we have any idea what the turnaround time on this information will be?"

"Within two weeks."

"And how much will the employer be charged?"

"Criminal Justice Information Authority will set the fee based on actual cost. He don't know that cost as of today."

"Thank you. I think this meets a big need that we have in our communities, particularly relating to employers who are hiring people in responsible positions or people in positions who have keys to offices with important information. I stand in support of this Bill."

"There being no further discussion, Representative Ryder, to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think the explanation of the Bill that was just given by its prime Sponsor in answer to the questions indicates the great need for this and the fact that we are actually doing something that is more fair to the prospective employees, because we are setting about a procedure in which they will know what information employers may receive and they will know what is on their record. That kind of information is a great advance and the protection part of this Bill for those applicants is extraordinary, and on those reasons I would ask for your support of the Bill."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 925 (sic - 926) pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Representative 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day Williams, one minute to explain your vote." Williams: Speaker June 25, 1987 "Okay. I respectfully rise in opposition to this Bill. I have an understanding what the Sponsor is trying to do, but at the same time, I believe that this has the potential for abuse. It's not necessarily that individuals desire or do not desire to be truthful in information given to their employers, but there are a lot of times that a person will be unjustly branded, that things will get out, that information will be misplaced, and even though I understand the penalties and I understand the safeguards that are trying to be provided for, I don't believe that we need to be supplying this central information bank at this time. I believe that this Bill and this concept deserves more study. It's much more serious than what we think it is and I would also urge an 'no vote. Thank you."

"Representative O'Connell, for what reason do you seek recognition?"

"Madam Speaker, a point of order. I believe you announced that as Senate Bill 925 and it is Senate Bill 926."

"Yes, and the Board is recorded *926". Any further discussion? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 87 voting 'aye', 11 voting 'no', and 8 voting "present". This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 950, Representative Regan. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 950, a Bill for an Act to amend the Juvenile Court Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Regan."

"Madam Speaker, may I ask leave of the House to bring this Bill back to Second Reading for purposes of an amendment, please?" 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

June 25, 1987 "The Gentleman asks leave to return this Bill to the Order of Second for the purposes of an Amendment. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, he has leave. Are there any Amendments filed, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative McCracken." "Representative McCracken."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Floor Amendment 3 would allow service upon a guardian ad litum to satisfy the requirement proceeding. of service upon a minor in a juvenile Current law specifies that all respondents to the action shall be served with summons. The courts have construed that literally to require service on even infant respondents, SO as long as there is a guardian ad litum entering an appearance on behalf of the minor, service of the summons upon the guardian ad litum qualifies for service upon juveniles less than eight years old. Yes, under eight. I move its adoption."

"The Gentleman has moved the adoption of Amendment #3 to Senate Bill 950, and on that question, the Gentleman from Fulton, Representative Homer. Representative Homer?"

"Thank you. Madam Speaker. I rise to support the Gentleman's Amendment and to indicate that it is in response to a 1987 opinion filed in the Third District Court in Ray, K. E., a minor, where that Court held that in a neglect proceeding that even though a guardian ad litum had been appointed for the infant child, and the infant child appeared in court along with the guardian ad litum, that jurisdiction was not technically obtained by the court for the reason that the summons was not personally served on the infant. That's obviously a ludicrous situation, to have the sheriff go out and serve an infant child with a 91  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 68th Legislative Day summons. By a Public Act in 1984, the General Assembly attempted to address that issue by expressly providing that service shall be upon the guardian ad litum, but they did not correct the problem according to this Appellate Court's opinion because the Statute also says, "and upon each respondent in the case." And because technically the infant child is still a respondent, this Appellate Court case ruled that the service was not effectuated, so I rise to support the Gentleman's Amendment."

"The Gentleman from DeKalb, Representative Countryman."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He will."

"Representative McCracken, does this apply only in juvenile cases, or does it apply in any case involving like an adoption or what have you?"

"Only under the Juvenile Court Act."

"And, you know, some of us have to serve these young child... children in adoption cases when they are still crying infants. Isn't the same rationale that applies here something we should probably apply in adoption cases?"

"Well, yes, and I would support that. We were only aware of the problem because of this opinion, and addressed only the opinion."

"Okay. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #3 be adopted? All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed... excuse me, Representative Bowman."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"He will."

"I thought we did this last year, because I had an 92  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Amendment to a Bill that did it."

"I don't know. Did it pass?"

"Yes. It passed. As far as I know, the Governor signed it. I don't mind doing it all over again, but I'm just curious if this is different."

"Yes. Yes. You're right. I'm sorry. The problem is... was not corrected by your Bill. Apparently the court considered your language and found that it did not correct the problem. No offense."

"Well, that's okay, but we may have to keep doing this every year if the court is being very fussy about such things. Okay, fine. I stand in support of this Amendment."

"I hope not."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #3 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye, all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Representative Regan... Hove this Bill to Third Reading. Representative Regan now asks leave for immediate consideration of Senate Bill 950 on Third Reading as amended. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, he has leave. Read the Bill on Third, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 950, a Bill for an Act to amend the Juvenile Court Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Regan."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. Senate Bill 950, the basis of the Bill came from the Governor's Task Force on Child Abuse and it's in regards to expansive available use of an order of protection entered in connection with juvenile proceedings. As you know, there 93  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 has been considerable increase in child abuse in regards to sexual child abuse and physical abuse. We've had a problem where 85% of these cases are happening within the child's own home. In some cases the Department of Children and Family Services must file a Protection Order and keep the person that's abusing the child away from the child. This makes it easier to accomplish. It also would transfer that information to the LEADS Center so that the sheriff knows that this person is not supposed to be near the child and I urge its adoption."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 950, and on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 950 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye", all those opposed vote "no". Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from Perry, Representative Goforth. The Gentleman does not wish to speak. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 107 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', and I voting 'present". This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1373, Representative Brunsvold. Clerk, read the Bill. Do you wish to proceed with this Bill now? This Bill is on the Order of the Consent Calendar, but it is the First Day, so do you wish to proceed now? Or do you wish to wait for the Consent Calendar? Okay. Leave it on the Consent Calendar. Out of the record. Representative Cullerton is not here either. The next Order is Public Health Second Reading. First Bill is Senate Bill 85, Representative Pullen. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 85, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act. Second Reading of the Bill. This Bill has been read a second time 94  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 previously. Amendments #1, 2, 3, and 4 have been adopted."

"Are there any Motions or Amendments?"

"No Motions. Floor Amendment #5 offered by Representative Pullen."

"Representative Pullen."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #5 is a technical cleanup to the Amendment that requires hospital patient testing. We did not, in that Amendment, include where the test results should be delivered, so this Amendment simply says that the test results shall be given to the attending physician. I move its adoption."

"The Lady has moved for the passage... adoption of Amendment #5 to Senate Bill 85, and on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, *Shall Amendment #5 be adopted? All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #6, offered by Representative Pullen."

"Representative Pullen."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amendment #6 would provide that in testing for AIDS one has the right to remain anonymous if one is being tested at an alternative testing site being operated by the Department of Public Health for the purpose of providing anonymous testing. This Amendment is needed in order to make contact tracing that has been endorsed by this House on a couple of other Bills possible and effective and I urge its adoption to Senate Bill 85."

"The Lady has moved for the adoption of Amendment #6 to Senate Bill 85, and on that question the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman." 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 68th Legislative Day

"Will the Lady yield for a question?"

"She will yield for a question."

"Representative Pullen, this strikes me as being a rather a strange Amendment because on the one hand you are providing for anonymity for the person being tested. On the other hand you are saying that anonymity obtains only when the test is performed at an alternative test site. Does this mean that if I were to go to a hospital that... and get the test, that I would not be guaranteed anonymity?"

"Yes. That is necessary in order for the contact tracing that this House has now twice approved to be effective and not to be harmed by other provisions of law."

"Okay. So it appears to... well, to the legislation, then, it appears to me that what this Amendment seeks to do is to prohibit routine anonymous testing so that if I go to an alternative test site, I get... I am... my anonymity is protected. If I go to a hospital my anonymity is not protected. I think, while the Lady's intent is quite understandable, it also points up the problem with the Bills that we have passed, and... with her endorsement. So this particular Amendment strikes me as being very, very strange indeed, discriminatory as between different kinds of testing locations and I would urge its defeat."

"Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, Representative Pullen, to close."

"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The Department of Public Health is conducting a... an experimental form of contact tracing called 'self-referral', by which they ask people who are tested anonymously at their alternative testing sites, of which there are 41 in this State, to send in their sexual contacts, no names given, and that kind of anonymous 96  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 contact referral is an untried Public Health provision. In the Contact Tracing Bill that I sponsored here which is currently in the Senate, we have specifically provided for the Department to be able to continue that program despite the fact that we are calling for contact tracing, sort of as an alternative track. However, for contact tracing to be able to work, it is required that physicians and labs who find out that someone has tested positive report that positive test result to the Department of Public Health or the local health authorities, if they have delegated their contact tracing duties to those authorities in order that the sexual contacts of the infected person may be reached, tested and informed of the possibility that they could be transmitting this virus to other people. There is another Bill in this process, which is sponsored by the Chairman of the Committee on Human Services, which has as one of its provisions the absolute right of anonymity. That provision will destroy contact tracing and make it impossible for US to go forward to try to protect people from being infected by this virus. I offered an Amendment to the Gentleman's Bill which would retain the right of anonymity, but only at the alternative testing sites so that both methods could go forward in relative harmony. The Gentleman has asked me to withdraw my Amendment to his Bill because he does not want to deal with that issue on his Bill. However, I cannot, in good conscience, support his Bill and I don't think many of the people in this House who believe that it's important to protect the public, can, if that provision destroys contact tracing. So I am offering this Amendment in a way that we can still pass the Chairman's Bill for all the worthy goals that it has, while maintaining the ability of the Public Health authorities to do the contact tracing that is necessary to stop the spread of this infection. This is an 97  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 important Amendment and I urge its adoption. Thank you."

"The question is, Shall Amendment 26 be adopted?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 83 voting 'aye', 12 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. This Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Representative Pullen. There has been a Fiscal Note and a Prison Impact Note requested on this Bill. Only a Fiscal Note has been filed. Representative Pullen."

"Madam Speaker, that Fiscal Note was filed by the Department of Corrections, so I think that it certainly shows how the Department of Corrections budget could be impacted, although I certainly disagree with the Fiscal Note. However, I also note that the Correctional Budget Impact Note Act requires that such a note be filed when a new crime is being created and that does not apply to this Bill, and so I would like to move at this time that the Correctional Budget Impact Note Act is inapplicable."

"The Lady moves that the Correctional Budget Impact Note Act is inapplicable. All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 85 voting 'aye', Brunsvold votes 'aye', there are 86 voting 'aye', 10 voting 'no', and 7 voting 'present', and the Correctional Impact Fiscal Note Act is inapplicable. This Bill moves to the Order of Third Reading. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are going to have a special introduction at this time by Representative Sieben and thereafter both parties will be going to caucus, so let us have this 98  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 special introduction at this time. Representative Sieben."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, it's my distinct privilege today to introduce a very distinguished resident of my district and resident of the State of Illinois. His name is Sam Mindale, and on Tuesday of this week Sam celebrated his 103rd birthday. 103 years old. Sam is the United States oldest living veteran, and he is currently Commander in Chief of the Spanish-American War Veterans. He lives in Galva, Illinois, and in the interest of our time today. I'm not going to read the Resolution or have the Clerk read the Resolution. I would much prefer that you hear from Sam Mindale, our oldest living American veteran. Sam."

"What do you want me to do?"

"I want you to sing one song and then recite your poem."

"(Sings song)"

"Can you give them one more, Sam? Sam not only is quite a singer, but he is also an ordained minister, a former newspaperman, he's worked with Scouts all his life, he coached... he's a former professional baseball player and coached a Little League team until he was 95 years old. But he's also quite a distinguished poet, and I'd like to have Sam share with you now his poem Soldier_Boy."

"This poem has been all over the United States. I've written about over 150, and I wrote 19 1/2 years for eight newspapers my own article, so I was pretty busy. but this has been all over the United States. It's called Soldier Boy. 'Tired, battered and torn. Blood trickling down his breast. He stopped, started, stopped again, beside the souls of poppies. In a swoon he fell, resting his head in the folds of this flowery bed. The sun once fled far gone, closed the breath of budding dawn. But soldier boy slept on, at rest, lips scented by the poppies. 99  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Cheeks caressed by blood-tinted soil. In peace, whispered peace, of his God." Thank you."

"I think Sam Mindale can be an inspiration to all of us, and certainly he's a credit to the centenarians of this State. In fact, I think Sam Mindale is a credit to life itself, and I appreciate your joining me in honoring him today with House Resolution 627. Thank you very much."

"Representative Brunsvold, for what reason do you rise?"

"Madam Speaker, David Phelps hopes he can sing that well when he's 103 years old."

"Okay. Ladies and Gentlemen, both sides have asked for a Caucus. We should go to a Caucus immediately. Thereafter we will come back and do Senate Bill 100 and proceed on this Order of Business. So both sides go to Caucus immediately, for how long? For 45 minutes, and proceed back here, then, at a quarter to two."

"May I have your attention, please. Will the House Members please report to their respective Conferences. Democrats in Room 114, Republicans in Room 118. Please report to your Conferences immediately. Thank you."

"Come to order. Bills Second Reading. House Bill 100... I'm sorry, Senate Bill. Senate Bill Second Reading. Senate Bill 100, Representative White. Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 100, a Bill for an Act in relation to acquired immunodeficiency syndrome. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendments #1 and #2 have been adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions filed?"

"Motion filed to table Amendment #2 by Representative White." 100  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

June 25, 1987 "Representative White on the Motion."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd like leave to table Amendment #2."

"The Gentleman moves to table Amendment #2. Is there any discussion? Being none, the question is, Shall Amendment #2 be tabled?' All in favor signify by saying 'aye, opposed 'no'. The ayes have it. The Amendment is tabled. Any further Motions?"

"No further Hotions."

White." "Any... any Amendments?" "Floor Amendment 3, offered by Representative

"Representative White."

"I move to table Amendment #3."

"Representative White."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd like to have leave to table Amendment #3.

"Amendment #3 is withdrawn. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment nt 24, offered by Representative White."

"Representative White."

"Yes. I move to table Amendment #4."

"Amendment 24 is withdrawn. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #5, offered by Representative Pullen and Stephens." Speaker #cPike: "Representative Pullen on Amendment $5."

"I'd like to withdraw the Amendment, please."

"Amendment 35 is withdrawn.

"Floor Amendment White."

Further Amendments?" #6, offered by Representative "Representative White."

"I ask leave to table Amendment 06.

"Amendment 36 is withdrawn. Further Amendments?" 101  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"Floor Amendment 07, offered by Representative White."

"Representative White."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment 87 is designed to respond to the wishes of the insurance industry. At one time this Bill was on the Consent Calendar. I asked for it to be brought back to Second Reading in order to respond to a concern by the insurance industry and Amendment 7 is an agreed Amendment and it resolves that problem."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment $7, and on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Pedersen."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Representative White has brought the Amendment over, we have discussed it and we approve and I would recommend that we pass this Amendment."

"Representative Cullerton on the Amendment."

"Well, will the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes."

"He indicates he will."

"Representative White, is this the similar or identical to an Amendment that was put on in the Senate? The Senate... I'm sorry... the House Bill that's in the Senate that deals with this issue of confidentiality?"

"It's similar, but not identical, but there is a movement in the Senate to make the Amendment identical to this one."

"Alright. The reason why I'm asking you... you called it an agreed Amendment and if I was correct in reading in the paper this morning, there were some people who objected to the Amendment as allowing insurance companies more leeway than, perhaps, they ought to have with regard to confidentiality, so I'm wondering if you could tell me what 102  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 is the difference between this Amendment and the Amendment that passed the Senate yesterday."

"Well, the Amendment that passed the Senate yesterday dealt primarily with insurance... insurance companies and this Amendment deals with fraternal organizations and HMOs."

"Well..."

"And the definition is explicit in the Amendment."

"Right, an insurance company is an insurance company and a fraternal benefit society and any other insurer subject to regulation under the Illinois Insurance Code, SO..."

"Representative Cullerton."

"... and, of course, HMOs. Now that doesn't seem to be very limiting. That seems to cover every insurance company that's regulated in Illinois. That's the definition, and then on page 2 you get into the issue of how you handle the confidentiality. Is that correct?"

"That is correct."

"Well, again, how is this different from the Amendment that was passed in the Senate and was criticized by some... in some quarters? I just want to know so I know how to vote."

"Well, first of all, this Amendment is agreed to by the architects of the Bill, and that's the Illinois AIDS Council, and they were consulted, they took part in the drafting of this Amendment. They have agreed to it, and the only ones who are opposed to it are the ones who are not knowledgeable about the effects of how insurance companies deal with this particular piece of legislation."

"Okay, well, let me see if I can walk through the Amendment, then. What this says is that any insurance company that requires a patient... or applicant... for new 103  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 or renewals to be tested for HIV or any other causative agent of AIDS, shall number one, give the patient or applicant prior written notice of such requirement, proceed with such testing only upon the written authorization of the applicant, and three, keep the results of such testing confidential. Notice of adverse underwriting or coverage decision may be given to any appropriately interested party, but the insured may only disclose the test result to a physician designated by the applicant or patient. Any such disclosure shall be in a manner that assures confidentiality. Now, what penalties are there that can be imposed on an insurance company if they were to violate the confidentiality of these results?"

"It's a thousand dollar fine and... as a petty offense, a thousand dollars."

"In what... and in the Bill itself, if the Department of Public Health had such results and someone in that agency disclosed them, what penalty would they be subject to?"

"That's a Class A Misdemeanor."

"Okay. And is there some way..."

"Pardon me. That's a Class B. Class B."

"Okay. Now can you give a rationale for the difference in the distinction as to how an insurance company would only get a business fine if they disclosed it and a Department of Public Aid employee would be... possibly be thrown in jail."

"I can't respond to that. I don't have an answer for that."

"Okay. Thank you for answering my questions."

"Representative Pullen."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would like to commend the Sponsor of this Bill 104  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 and of this Amendment for the very difficult, sensitive, extensive work he has done in negotiating this Bill and this Amendment and I would urge the House to adopt Amendment #7."

"The Gentleman from Hill, Representative Regan."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He will."

"Representative White, are you familiar with what the underwriting in the insurance industry is right now in regards to ratings that are confidential?"

"No, I'm not. I know one thing for sure that the insurance industry took this Bill from top to bottom, they looked it over, they signed off on it and I told them that I would not move this Bill until they were satisfied as well as the architects of this Bill interests be satisfied."

"Okay, I agree with you. I support the Amendment. I was just trying to clarify some things possibly for Representative Cullerton. They have confidential ratings right now they've had all... in all their history. And it comes to... venereal disease is a confidential rating or a rejection. The agent can't even find out why his client is rejected or rated. They take very serious control over a possible lawsuits because they might make a mistake in their ratings. So the confidentiality in regard to insurance testing is totally there. It's always been there and I urge support for your Amendment."

"Representative Bowman."

"Question of the Sponsor."

"Indicates he will yield."

"Representative White, is there anything in this Amendment that in any way, shape or form authorizes 105  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day insurance companies to require as a June 25, 1987 precondition for obtaining a policy or renewal of a policy, a test for the AIDS antibodies?"

"No. There's nothing in that... this Bill that addresses Bowman: that subject matter." "Thank you very much."

"Further discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #7 be adopted?" All those in favor signify by saying 'aye, opposed 'no". The 'ayes have it. The Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Breslin in the Chair."

"Representative White now asks leave for immediate consideration of Senate Bill 100, as amended. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, he has leave. Read the Bill on Third, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 100, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the acquired immune deficiency syndrome. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative White."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Bill is almost identical to House Bill 100, which I sponsored, which is in the Senate now, with one exception, and that is Amendment #7, which will also be a part of my Bill in the Senate. This Bill deals with confidentiality and testing which means that if by chance you consent to be tested, that the information will not be sent to the newspapers, placed on the billboard, put in the newspaper, etc. This is a good Bill. It addresses a serious problem that we have in our society and I seek your support."

"Representative White has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 100 and on that question, is there any 106  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day discussion? Hearing none, the question is, June 25, 1987 • Shall Senate Bill 100 pass? All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 108 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', and 5 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. With leave of the Body, I would like to go back to Representative Pullen's Bill, but I don't see Representative Pullen. She is. Okay. That Bill is Senate Bill 85. Hearing no objection, read Senate Bill 85, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 85, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendments 1, 2, 3, and 4 and #5 were adopted previously."

"I thought this Bill was on Third Reading, Mr. Clerk. It moved to Third Reading, I thought, just before we went to Caucus. I see. So this Bill is on the Order of Third Reading. Representative Pullen has asked leave for immediate consideration of this Bill, as amended. Does she have leave? Hearing no objection, she has leave. Would you present the Bill, Representative Pullen."

"Senate Bill 85, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Pullen."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. With the adoption of Amendments, this Bill now becomes an Act in relation to AIDS testing. It has three or four really major components. It is a Bill that requires premarital testing for AIDS as we do now for syphilis. It also requires the testing of patients being 107  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 admitted to a hospital who are between the ages of 13 and 55. if they are getting a blood test anyway. The test is to be done at the time of pre-admission, or if they are not having a pre-admission blood test, then the first inpatient blood test. It also requires the testing of prisoners in state penitentiaries when they are taken into the prison and when they have regular medical checkups. It further provides that prisoners in state penitentiaries be tested at least 60 days prior to the time that they are contemplated to be released. And there is a provision we added a short while ago to guarantee that the reporting that is required under contact tracing, which is passed on another Bill, would not be damaged by an anonymity provision that was on the Bill that we just passed so that it would guarantee the right of anonymity for those persons who are tested at the alternative testing site set up by the Department of Public Health for that purpose, but other tests would not be done anonymously. I think the House has already spoken on this issue that we believe that it is important to direct and require the Public Health authorities of this State to begin to take steps to stop the spread of the AIDS virus. This Bill will go toward that effort, in my opinion. It is something that is needed. It is needed now. In fact, it was needed four years ago. We cannot afford to wait any longer. I urge its adoption by the House. Thank you."

"The Lady has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 85, and on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"May I inquire of the Chair, Madam Speaker?"

"State your inquiry."

"Which Amendments are adopted on this Bill? I believe some have been adopted today, and I... the Calendar does 108  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 not reflect which ones were adopted. If you could inform me."

"Mr. Clerk? Mr. Clerk, I need to know which Amendments are adopted to this Bill."

"Amendments #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 are adopted to the Bill."

"Okay. I have no questions at this time."

"Very good. The Lady has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 85. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question... The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton. Excuse me, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman, first. That will give Representative Cullerton some time."

"Madam Speaker, would the Lady yield for a question?"

"She will."

"This deals with testing for marriage licenses. How long does it take to get the test results back?"

"Well, it depends on how many tests are being done in a given locality. When the Army is testing its recruits, they get back their results within 24 hours. It can take up to three weeks if it is sent to a lab that is not regularly doing these tests."

"Okay. Let me tell you about the City of Chicago with respect to people who are indigent for whom the City does free testing. The specimens they take are sent to the State for testing and the State has two people doing the work on this and the results are sent back to Chicago and it takes maybe a month and a half. Maybe as little as a month, but certainly it could easily take a month and a half. In any event, the amount of time is quite variable, so if couples are planning a... to get married at a certain time, they really would not have a very good guide as to how far in advance of the ceremony they would have to have 109  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 this test taken so they could get the results back in time, because you couldn't have the ceremony take place until the test results were known. The license wouldn't be issued before the test results were known. It seems to me that while this is very well intentioned, this is going to throw our system for issuing marriage licenses into chaos, and I think I can safely predict if this Bill passes, that more than a few of us on this floor are going to be getting some irate phone calls from people who are saying that they are... they already have arrangements to be married, they can't get a license. What can we do about it? And we're not going to be able to do anything about it. In fact, if this Bill passes, we may have to admit that we voted for it. I don't want to be in that position. I'm voting "no"."

"The Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hould the Sponsor yield?"

"She will."

"Representative, I think this is a good idea. I guess my question is, what is the added extra cost to this and does the State incur that or does the individual coming in for the testing incur the test... or the cost. I mean?"

"Are you referring to the premarital test? Are you referring to the premarital section? The individuals who are applying for the marriage license pay for that just as they do for the syphilis test, and for their marriage license and the cost is $3.00 for the initial test for the ELISA test. If they test negative on that, that's the only cost. If one of them tests positive, then they would give another ELISA test that would be $6.00. If they test positive on both of those, then they would be given... with the same sample of blood, would be given a Western Blot 110  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Assay Test which, according to figures from. I believe it's the Wall Street Journal, costs $30.00. So that would be only for those who have already had a double positive on the less expensive test."

"In other words, the individual would be assuming all the costs for each additional test that should be required."

"Right. This would not be a cost to the State."

"Okay. In talking to my Department of Public Health in my own county, they expressed some concern stating that in at least that particular area, they could test for some 16 years under the current system of people within that area before they felt a positive test would ever come up. They see it as a substantial additional workload on them. I think it's a worthy workload. In the Bill there is no provision that, let's say, would designate high risk areas must be tested versus those that would have very low risk."

"No. There isn't any difference because you never know. Representative, there might be someone who lives in a high risk area for a while and then comes home to get married."

"Okay. Thank you."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker, and Members of the House. I know that the Members of this Body decided that there was no applicability of a Fiscal Note to Senate Bill 85, as amended. And I know that the Sponsor of the Bill has just told us that there is no cost, no State cost, no taxpayer cost to this Bill. But the Illinois Department of Public Aid tells me that the cost of testing hospital inpatients between the ages of 13 and 55 will impose a cost between 9 and 12 million dollars annually against the State Treasury. Between 9 and 12 million dollars annually to test hospital inpatients. Some might say that it's worthwhile for an individual who is going to the hospital for a hernia 111  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 problem or to deliver a baby to find out whether he or she may be a carrier of AIDS. It may be helpful for health workers in the hospital to know that about patients who are there with a skin rash or some other kind of problem. But let me remind you that when people go in to deliver babies, for example, they are likely to be in and out in one day. The blood test that is performed by the hospital under this legislation, the results of that test will not even be available before that patient leaves the hospital. There is a cost to this Bill, a cost to us. Here we are in harsh fiscal times in the State of Illinois. Passage of this Bill will commit us to pay between 9 and 12 million dollars through the Department of Public Aid to fund testing for inpatient services. If you want to vote for a tax increase, feel free to vote for Senate Bill 85."

"Representative Currie, for the record you should note that a Fiscal Note has been filed on this Bill. This Body determined that a Prison Impact Note was not applicable to the Bill. The next person to speak will be the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"Yes. Thank you. Madam Speaker, to be fair to the Sponsor, I think that the last speaker indicated some cost attributable to this Bill, and I think that the Sponsor of the Bill, perhaps, might disagree. I quite frankly didn't hear her explanation as to how much she thought this might cost, so if I could ask the Sponsor, Representative Pullen, with regard to the Amendments that deal with the Department of Corrections... "

"Representative Cullerton... Would you turn on Representative... Okay. Proceed."

"Thank you, Sir. The... "

"Excuse me. Excuse me. Representative Cullerton was not finished asking his question." 112  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"He did ask a question." June 25, 1987

"He's not finished asking the question."

"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought he was."

"Thank you. Thank you. No, I was in the middle of it and my microphone was taken off. Now, have you seen the Fiscal Note that was filed by the Illinois Department of Corrections and have you seen the Fiscal Note filed by the Illinois Department of Public Aid, and would you like to comment on the veracity of those Fiscal Notes?"

"Surely. First to the Department of Public Aid. I think that they probably listened to someone over the telephone and heard the cost of 4 to 5 dollars, but they heard it as $45.00. And their Fiscal Note is completely out of orbit. It has no validity whatsoever. The cost of an ELISA test is $3.00. At some places it could be as much as $4.00 to $5.00, and they have it listed at $45.00, and their Fiscal Note is projected on that basis. So it is not at all accurate. As to the Department...

"Could I just ask you a question on that? How many tests would this Bill require? One or two?"

"It requires one if they are negative, and if they are positive, then it requires a confirmatory test, because we don't want to be giving people false positive information."

"Right. The confirmatory test, then, what would you estimate the cost... that cost to be?"

"The figures on that vary. The figure that I have seen that I think is probably reliable in terms of a location where a great many of these are being done so you have an economy of scale, is $30.00, which I derived from the Wall Street Journal."

"But that would be a much lower percentage of people who receive that test. Right?"

"Absolutely. It would be only those who have tested 113  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day positive twice on the ELISA."

"So I just want to know, on the issue of the Public Aid Amendment, how much money do you think it would cost based on your figures? Approximately."

"Hell, I haven't multiplied it out in terms of the hospital admissions that we pay for..."

"Now this is... this is just cost to the State, now. We're not talking about the cost that an individual hospital may have to pass on to its patients, but we're just talking about the cost to the State."

"Right. Right."

"Do you have any idea?"

"Well, what's $3.00... $3.00 times 300,000 admissions, I guess?"

"And then a certain percentage times 30, for the second test."

"Yes, but a low percentage."

"Alright. Okay. And then on the Department of Corrections, their Fiscal Note, they, I understand, estimate the cost of the test to be $10.00."

"Yes, they do. I don't know why."

"Okay, now you say..."

"I mean, maybe they're... maybe they expect to be using a lab that has inflated costs."

"Now when you say $3.00, that, I assume, does not cover the cost of counseling for those who are..."

"Yes. I think that would be correct. It wouldn't cover the cost of counseling for those people who test positive."

"Okay. And does it cover the cost of the salary... the salaries of people who administer the test and maintain the records and the confidentiality provisions and all that? Or is that just the..."

"I would doubt that the Department of Corrections would 114  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 have a lab set up to do it themselves. I think they would contract that out. They would have to maintain records and protect the confidentiality of that."

"So maybe that $10.00 estimate, you know, takes into account... "

"It... $10.00 might take into account that, yes. It's possible."

"Okay. So now they come up with a... an estimate between Amendments #3 and 4 of about... at $10.00 a test of about $800,000.00. Would you feel that that would be in the ball park?"

"It's very possible that it would be in the ball park. I know the Department of Corrections is not crazy about this, so I'm not sure how much they may be measuring it carefully, but I..."

"I've been the victim... I've been the victim of Fiscal Notes by agencies that don't like my Bills, so I'm sensitive to that, but that's why I wanted to ask you what you felt. Well actually $800,000.00, to me, didn't seem too shocking. The real problem comes in, and I'd like to have you respond to this, to the second page of their Fiscal Note that talks about protective custody, and this is where it gets very speculative, but potentially very expensive. This is what I want you to address. The... "

"It's very speculative and I think it's an example of a Department that is trying very hard to use a Fiscal Note to harm a Bill rather than being honest about it."

"Alright. And so I want you to respond. Let me just present the argument and perhaps you can respond to it. If people test positive, Federal Court decisions would require the Department to isolate those prisoners from the general population. The estimate as to how many would test positive, I believe, is 5 to 10 per cent. Now there must 115  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 be, I would assume, some cost relevant to isolating people who test positive for AIDS, and so how much, and their range comes from 3.6 million to 58.5 million dollars. Quite a range. So I'm wondering if you could comment on how much, first of all whether you think it would be necessary for these prisoners to be isolated and secondly, if so, how much do you think it would cost?"

"In terms of Federal Court decisions, I do not know whether it would be necessary for them to be isolated. In terms of policy options, setting that question aside, I believe that it would be possible for the Department to pursue a policy of assigning cells on the basis of a test result, rather than setting up whole wings or entire institutions or whatever. The concern that we have addressed when we were debating the Amendment on this is that we do have double celling in Illinois, and that when we are refusing to test, refusing to find out, we may very well be unwittingly allowing the transmission from one cellmate to his... from one inmate to his cellmate, and I think that the policy options can be explored on a wide range. That it might be... might very well be possible for it to be relatively inexpensive. We have already compromised to not require testing of everyone now currently in the prisons, but only require it on intake or on regular medical checkups and on those that are leaving the prison system, because of the possible administrative difficulties in doing a prison-wide testing procedure, but I am very concerned that the Department does not want to know who tests positive and that leaves the prisoners at... at risk merely on the basis of fate. And I think we have a better responsibility to the prison population than that."

"Alright. Now if I could address another... one more question dealing with the issue of Amendment #2 requiring 116  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 AIDS testing for all persons ages 13 through 55 when they are admitted to a licensed hospital. In fact, Representative Greiman specifically asked me privately this question, why did you pick 55? I think Representative Greiman's age is around 55, but perhaps that's why he was interested in that amount."

"Well, it was no offense."

"In that age. What is the significance of... "

"Now the greatest incidence of the virus is of persons up to around the range of age 50, and I don't think we want to come back and amend it to age 51 next year, age 52 the next year, and 53 the next year, so I thought that by overshooting that age by a very modest amount, we would be providing this in a responsible manner for the future."

"Okay. Thank you. Now, to the Bill. I think that... I think that I probably would have voted against the Bill that... as it was originally introduced, although I would suspect that most everybody here would vote for it, because it required the testing for applicants for marriage license. The Governor has already indicated by press release that he's going to sign that Bill, and I think it's generally understood that there is enough support for that. But I think these Amendments should be looked at very carefully, even by those of you who would normally endorse the original Bill, especially with regard to the Department of Corrections. I'm not attributing to them great lofty goals. I'm just telling you what they testified to in Committee. They, as a method of controlling the prison behavior, prison population, and the prison behavior, they quite frankly would like to have everyone in the prison to think that if they engage in some type of sexual conduct with another prisoner, that they may get AIDS. If they know that, if that's going through their minds, that tends 117  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 to cut down on the... tends to really cut down on the desire to have this sexual contact. So they have come in and said, "Don't tell everybody... don't separate those who have AIDS from those who don't, because then the sexual activity will increase in both different wings of that prison'. Those who think that they are... it's safe, and those who think that it doesn't make any difference because it's a fatal disease. So that's been their argument. Now, I don't think that's the loftiest of goals, but I certainly think that it makes a lot of sense. Now that's number one. Number two, it seems to me it's not a very uniform approach. We test people when they first come in. We test people right before they go out. We don't test John Wayne Gacy because he's going to be there forever, but we would test those people who are just about ready to leave, and I don't know what we... what we do with that. I mean if we're talking about controlling the prison population and keeping the spread of AIDS going from the prison population, why are we testing those who are just about ready to leave? I mean, the notices that go out afterwards don't prohibit those people from being released in the general population. Plus it's going to cost some money. It's going to cost at least, I think even Representative Pullen would estimate, at least a million and a half, two million dollars for the prison, and as far as the Department of Public Aid, even if you took their Fiscal Note and cut the cost of the test down to $10.00, it's still going to cost about two million dollars there. And that doesn't count, by the way, the cost that the Illinois Hospital Association has estimated to be about a hundred million dollars that will be borne by people who pay insurance premiums. So I understand that the original Bill was something which was going to pass, but I think that 118  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 people should be very wary about supporting the Amendments 2, 3, and 4 that will end up costing the State a lot of money, and..."

"Bring your remarks to a close, Sir. You've talked your five minutes."

"No, I don't mean to exceed the time. I'd be happy to just ask people to vote 'no' or 'present'."

"Representative Pullen, to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think this Bill is needed, and I think it's needed now, and I would like to respond to all of the comments that the Gentleman just made, but I don't think I want to take up the time of the House to do that. So I would simply ask for favorable consideration of Senate Bill 85 at this time."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 85 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Representative Davis, one minute to explain your vote."

"Madam Speaker and Members of the House, I feel compelled to vote 'no' on this Bill for the simple reason, if a couple decides to marry, and they're tested, and one or both test negatively at that time, could base their future behavior on that test which could be erroneous, because AIDS... the testing for AIDS does not always show in four weeks, eight weeks, you know, it can show up at a much later time in one's body, and I think that by giving someone the impression that he or she is free of AIDS, and they may base their behavior upon that, and I just think it might be very detrimental to the other population."

"Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 84 voting 'aye', 24 voting 'no', and 5 voting 'present'. This Bill, having 119  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are prepared now to take the Roll Call on the Consent Calendar. It will be the procedure to read the Bills, take the Roll Call on Third Reading. Oh, I guess the Bills have been read. So we will take the Roll Call for these Bills and then for those Members who would like to change their vote on an individual Bill, you will have one hour to do so. Mr. Clerk, would you put that Order of Business up on the Board. Representative Hoffman, for what reason do you rise?"

"Yes, Madam Speaker, I have Senate Bill 961 on Third Reading on the Consent Calendar, and I had requested that it be returned to Second Reading for the purpose of an Amendment."

"What's the number again?"

"961."

"Senate Bill 961 is on the Order of Third Reading of the Consent Calendar. Does the Gentleman have leave to bring that Bill back to the Order of Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment? Hearing no objection, he has leave. Mr. Clerk, would you put Senate Bill 961 up on the Board and... Okay, we can't do that right now. We'll have to wait for a second for them... the diskettes to be changed."

"Okay. Fine."

"Senate Bill 961 is on the Order of Third Reading. The Gentleman... does the Gentleman have leave to return it to the Order of Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment? The Gentleman has leave. Are there any Amendments filed, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #1 is offered by Representative Hoffman." 120  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"Representative Hoffman."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House... Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 961 includes the... the Department of Waterways in the language to permit impact study relative to problems, and I move for the adoption of Floor Amendment #1."

"The Gentleman has moved the adoption of Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 961, and on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, *Shall Amendment #1 be adopted?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Does the Gentleman have leave to return this Bill to the Order of Consent Calendar? Yes, the Gentleman has leave. Representative Rice, for what reason do you seek recognition?"

"The Order of Business that we were on prior to the Consent Calendar. I had a Bill coming up. Are you going to hear it?"

"We are not going to hear it at this time. It is the intention of the Chair to do the Consent Calendar and then to go to appropriations. We will get back to you, however, as quickly as We can. We're going to do the Consent Calendar now, Ladies and Gentlemen. Representative Hoffman asks leave for immediate consideration of Senate Bill 961, as amended. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, the Gentleman has leave. The question is... the question is, 'Shall the Bills on the Consent Calendar of this date pass?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. At this time, Ladies and Gentlemen, you are voting on the Consent Calendar. At 121  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 the same time, the Pages will be distributing sheets SO that Members who wish to vote 'no' on individual Bills may record those Bills and return them back to the Clerk's office in one hour, and then we will tabulate the results and make a declaration as to which Bills have passed and which have failed, if any. And on that question, the Gentleman from Fulton, Representative Homer."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is my understanding that we have two Consent Calendars on our desk. One of them is in the regular Calendar on page... starting on page 18, and the other one is House Calendar Supplemental No. 1. Could you clarify for us which Consent Calendar we're voting on?"

"He're voting on House Calendar Supplemental No. 1. Consent Calendar. It is a yellow sheet on you desk."

"Thank you. Do you know what the Chair's plan is for dealing with the remaining Consent Calendar Bills?"

"He don't have a plan yet. We'll develop one."

"Alright. Thank you."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, one more time. The Pages are distributing the Consent Calendar with a provision for Members to vote 'no' or 'present' on individual Bills. Please look this over and record your negative or present votes and return it signed. Please put your name on it and the Clerk will record your vote accordingly. Mr. Clerk, take the record. This record will not be announced until you have returned your individual voting sheets one hour from now, so that will be 4:30. Representative Van Duyne, how do you wish to vote? Representative Van Duyne wishes to vote 'aye' on the Consent Calendar. Take the record, Mr. Clerk. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are preparing to go to the Order of Appropriations, so if there is staff that needs to be on the Floor for that Order of Business, they should get prepared. If you are planning to present 122  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 Amendments, you should also be prepared. On the Order of Senate Bills Second Reading, Appropriations matters only, page 9 of your Calendar. The first Bill is Senate Bill 48, Representative Leverenz. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 48, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to various state agencies. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions or Amendments?"

"There are no Motions filed nor any further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 49, Representative Leverenz. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 49, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to various state agencies. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Motions or Amendments?"

"There are no Motions nor Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Leverenz now asks leave for immediate consideration of Senate Bill 49. Read the Bill on Third, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 49, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to various state agencies. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Leverenz."

"This would appropriate $3.00 to the Bureau of the Budget and I would request your 'aye' vote to pass the Bill."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 49 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 105 voting 'aye', 6 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the 123  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Constitutional Majority, is hereby Representative Olson is recognized June 25, 1987 declared passed. to make an introduction."

"Madam Chairman, fellow Members of this Assembly, I have in the gallery here, and I would like to introduce, I believe there are 74 young men and young women. They are in Springfield this week to attend a joint sponsored State Police-American Legion Youth Camp. Let's give them a high round of applause. These young men and young women are sponsored by American Legion groups around the State. I think it's about $110.00 each that these American Legion units put up to send these girls and boys here and they are from across the State and I would, I think, be safe in saying quite a few of us here have some constituents or future constituents in the gallery. Thank you, young men and young women."

"Welcome. The next... with leave of the Body I'd like to go back to Senate Bill 48 and have that Bill heard on Third Reading. Read the Bill, Hr. Clerk. Senate Bill 48, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to various state agencies. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Leverenz."

"I thank you, Madam Speaker. Senate Bill 48 would contain $180,000.00 for the East St. Louis Area Development Act for their FY88 operating expenses. I'd ask for your 'aye' vote to pass the Bill."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 48, and on that question, the Gentleman from Adams, Representative Mays."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. As the Sponsor indicated this is $180,000.00 in GRF for a development authority. We do have some tight times and we would oppose this Bill." 124  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 48 pass?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken, one minute to explain your vote."

"Madam Speaker, I'll ask for... I ask for verification if this appears to receive the requisite votes."

"Only vote your own switches, Ladies and Gentlemen. Has everyone voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 63 voting 'aye', 48 voting 'no', and 1 voting 'present', and Representative McCracken, do you persist in a request for a verification? The Gentleman persists in a request for a verification. Poll the Affirmative, Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of the Affirmative. Berrios, Bowman, Braun, Brunsvold, Bugielski, Capparelli, Christensen, Cullerton, Curran, Currie, Daley, Davis, DeJaegher, DeLeo, Dunn, Farley, Flinn, Flowers, Giglio, Giorgi, Granberg, Greiman, Hannig, Hartke, Hicks, Homer, Jones, Keane, Krska, Kulas, Laurino, LeFlore, Leverenz, Levin, Martinez, Matijevich, Mautino, McGann, McPike, Morrow, Mulcahey, Novak, Panayotovich, Preston, Rea, Rice, Richmond, Ronan, Saltsman.... "

"Excuse me. Representative Bugielski asks leave to be verified. The Gentleman has leave. Proceed, Sir."

"Satterthwaite, Shaw, Steczo, Stern, Sutker, Terzich, Turner, Van Duyne, White, Williams, Wolf, Anthony Young, Wyvetter Younge, and Mr. Speaker."

"Do you have any questions of the Affirmative Roll, Mr. McCracken?"

"Yes, Madam Speaker. Representative Flowers?"

"Representative Flowers is in the Chamber. 125  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Representative Morrow asks leave to be verified. Can he have leave? He can.

"Representative Preston?"

"Representative Preston is in the Chamber."

"Representative Panayotovich?"

"Representative Panayotovich is in the Chamber."

"Representative Capparelli?"

"Representative Capparelli is in the Chamber."

"Representative Ronan?"

"Representative Ronan? Representative Al Ronan? The Gentleman is not in the Chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Terzich?"

"Representative Terzich? Representative Bob Terzich? The Gentleman is not in the Chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Giglio?"

"Representative Giglio is in the Chamber."

"I see him. Representative Farley?"

"Representative Farley? Bruce Farley is in the Chamber."

"Representative Martinez?"

"Representative Martinez. Representative Martinez. I can't see the Gentleman. He'll have to raise his hand, or stand up, or do something. Is Representative Martinez That's Representative Mautino. Is Representative Martinez in the Chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Kulas?"

"Representative Kulas? Representative Kulas is not in the Chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative O'Connell?"

"Representative McNamara, for what reason do you 126  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 rise? Representative McNamara changes his vote from 'no' to 'aye". Representative O'Connell is not voting 'aye'. The Gentleman is not voting 'aye", Sir."

"Oh, I'm sorry. Representative Laurino?"

"Representative Laurino? Bill Laurino? Is the Gentleman in the Chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Curran?"

"Representative Curran? Representative Mike Curran. Is the Gentleman in the Chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Levin?"

"Representative Levin? Ellis Levin? The Gentleman is not in the Chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Van Duyne?"

"Representative Van Duyne? Representative Van Duyne is in the Chamber."

"Nothing further."

"Representative Curran has returned to the Chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting 'aye'. Representative Ronan has returned to the Chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting 'aye'. Representative Martinez has returned to the Chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting 'aye'. On this question, there are 60 voting 'aye', 47 voting 'no' and 1 voting 'present'. And the Bill ... This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. The next Bill is Senate Bill 52, Representative Leverenz. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 52, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to various State agencies. Second Reading of the Bill. There are no Committee Amendments."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?" 127  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Clerk Leone: "There are none."

"Third Reading. Representative Leverenz now asks leave for immediate consideration of Senate Bill 52, on Third Reading. Does it need to be read again?"

"Senate Bill 52, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to various State agencies. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Leverenz."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Senate Bill 52 would contain $176,500 for a program that we started and that we fund through this appropriation. I would ask for your 'aye' vote to pass the Bill."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 52. And on that question, the Gentleman from Adams, Representative Mays."

"Thank you, very much, Madam Speaker. I rise in support of the Bill."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 52 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from Kankakee, Representative Novak, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the General Assembly. I would like to explain my vote because we lobbied for this stipend when I was treasurer last year, and I would just like to vote 'present' on that matter. Thank you."

"Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 107 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and 5 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Greiman in the Chair."

"On page 9 of the Calendar, on the Order of 128  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Senate Bills, Second Reading appears Senate Bill 237. Mr. Clerk, are there any Amendments to that Bill?"

"Senate Bill 237, Amendments #1 and 2 were adopted in Committee."

"Are there any Motions?"

"No Motions in respect to Amendment #1 or 2."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representatives Piel and Mays."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Piel, on Amendment #3."

"Speaker."

"Mr. Piel?"

"Withdraw."

"The Amendment is withdrawn. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Leverenz."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz on Amendment #4."

"Thank you. Amendment #4 would reduce the audit investigation line by $76,500 and it would move it into contractual services. I would move for the adoption of Amendment #4."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #4 to Senate Bill 237. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Adams, Mr. Mays."

"Would the Gentleman explain Amendment #4 one more time, please?"

"Mr. Leverenz."

"Thanks. This is for Special Assistant Attorney General work and we're moving it to the proper line item."

"Okay, and by doing so, you're taking money down from the 129  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 contractual line items in the Auditor General's budget, and putting those dollars into a Special Assistant Attorney General line item?"

"We're taking it out of the audit investigation line. Is your Amendment ... Is your analysis miswritten? We're just putting... language right so it is used for Attorney General work."

"How has the Agency gotten by without this type of a special line before?"

"Very well. And they'll get by again."

"Okay. To the Amendment. Thank you, very much. We have seen this Amendment on this budget in Committee and on some other budgets, and while this Amendment represents an improvement over the one that was erroneously adopted in Committee, the way it must be viewed by anybody that is objective, is as a turf building type of Amendment for the Attorney General of this State. This would take down $76,000 from their contractual line item. something that has been used for this type of thing in the past, but it still specifically lines it to the Attorney General's office. I don't know why the Attorney General's office feels he has to have this kind of special attention in this budget and the others. I don't believe it's a good precedent to set. I would therefore, oppose the Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Macon, Mr. Tate."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this Amendment is an Amendment that's been filed to a series of different Bills and different agencies in this process. I would suggest to the Membership, that if we're going to be serious about budget plans and budget cuttings, and if this General Assembly is going to develop a responsible policy, then this side of the aisle ais is prepared to cut contractual 130  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 agreements and cut travel and cut the frills out of this budget. But what we're also doing today, folks, and I think everyone should listen ... Mr. Speaker, can we have some attention. Mr. Speaker? If you don't want to be serious about it folks, we're going to pass out a budget today, some budgets on Children and Family Services. We're going to pass out a budget on Higher Education. A lot of people in this State are not going to receive the type of services that you may want ... you may think they're deserving of. Now, if you're going to build an empire in the Attorney General's office, if you want to give him $3,000,000 worth of new lawyers this year, and you want to put that priority over child abuse and higher education and little kids in this State, then I think that's the type of statement that that side of the aisle is going to stand for, if we're going to allow this type of practice to exist. This side of the aisle is ready and stands willing to work with you in eliminating all of the contractual work, all the travel. We'll cut the frills out of this budget. But we're not willing to give it to one AG that may have some other reason to build that empire. This is a bad Amendment and we should all vote 'no' on this Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor of the Amendment yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Leverenz, the last ..."

"Did you want to ask me a question?"

"Yes. As I understand it, the Amendment cuts money, does it not? This Amendment cuts money?"

"Moves it around."

"That's right. Okay. Mr. Speaker, to the legislation 131  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 then. I think the speech that we just heard is really not on point. It misses the point altogether, because what we're doing here, is reducing the lines in some budgets, increasing them in other budgets. There is no net effect on the bottom line, and in fact ... at least as appropriated, and in fact, this particular reallocation should be able to save money in contractual lines, because a lot of these agencies contract out for expensive lawyers at $150 an hour. And if we put all the money where it belongs in the Attorney General's office, then he could hire the necessary specialist, that perhaps the individual agencies couldn't hire on their own, and avoid the expense of contracting out. This is a procedure that actually saves money. And I think it should be supported by the other side of the aisle, because I'm sure they're interested in saving money, too."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Piel."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I have to take exception with the previous speaker when he says it saves money and you sit here and look at what the money that's being put in, it's not saving money. I think it's too bad that the Attorney General wants to go about getting his appropriation for assistance in this manner. Just to clarify what the Members on the other side of the aisle ... This isn't a partisan situation whatsoever. When it came to the appropriation process, the Comptroller, your party, the Treasurer, your party, leveled with us, put it on the table exactly what he was asking for, and exactly how much they needed for specific line items. I sat down with all the constitutional officers, went over their budgets, what they needed, and one thing and another. In the hour and a half that we sat in the Attorney General's office, not once was this mentioned, that he needed this 132  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 money for this purpose. Not once during the Committee process did the Attorney General say "We need the money for this purpose". Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, to me it is nothing but an end run on the Attorney General's part to sit here and throw more money into the budget, to bust the budget worse than it is at the present time. I think what we have to do, we have to approach this thing in a good, fiscally responsible manner, and if the man does not have the guts to come up to us in Appropriation Committee and say "I need the money for this", let's let him know and vote "no"."

"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Flinn. I'm sorry, Mr. Richmond."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman from Jackson, Mr. Richmond, moves the previous question be put. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. Mr. Leverenz, to close."

"Thank you. There are a couple of guys getting excited over there. Getting excited. When the last speaker said the money gets moved to the Attorney General's budget, nothing could be further from the truth. I have no idea what your staff analysis ... your analysis says at all. Maybe that was tested under a previous Bill. But, what we're doing here, is within the agency budget, simply setting aside and earmarking money that isn't used, for that which it has been used for for years. The Special Assistant Attorney General is doing work at the direction of those agencies. If the previous speaker were correct, the Governor would have to give up over 600 attorneys paid for in different departments of State government. Isn't that amazing? Over 600 people on the payroll. If you want to find some money to save, grab them. It's 40 to 60 133  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 million dollars. I would encourage Representative Mays to do just that. If you looked at the contractual service line that we're talking about in these budgets, you'd swipe another 8 million dollars in savings. We didn't touch any of those little babies. He left all those people. Maybe that should be termed the Attorneys Full Employment Practice Act. We're just setting money aside to be used for the same purpose it's been used for every year."

"Bring your remarks to a close, Sir."

"I will offer this Amendment again, and that's why I'm taking the time to do it now, so they should understand it once and for all. I move for the adoption of the Amendment."

"The question is, "Shall this Amendment be adopted? All those in favor signify by saying 'aye", those opposed 'no'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. Mr. Stephens, one minute to explain your vote."

"Well, just ten seconds. You know, we are excited. We are worried about how the House is preparing a budget to send to the Governor. We ought to be concerned about it, and we ought to be excited. And we ought to watch the way this money is being abused."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 64 'aye', 45 'no', none voting 'present'. And the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #5, being offered by Representative Mays."

"The Gentleman from Adams, Mr. Mays on Amendment #5."

"Thank you, very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Amendment #5 takes into consideration 134  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 everything that has happened to this Bill in the Committee action. It takes into consideration the Fiscal '87 expenditure level that we reduced the Auditor General's budget down to, and it goes a little bit further. It cuts across the board in the Auditor General's office, 2% from the budget ... from the operations budget, for an additional $210,000. The Amendment on its face would show about a $404,000 savings, but that is in addition ... or from that figure must be subtracted the Fiscal '87 expenditure level. I would move the adoption of this Amendment."

"The Gentleman moves the adoption of Amendment #5 to Senate Bill 237. And on that, the Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Daniels."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. So everyone understands, Amendment #5 is the commencement of what the House Republican Conference is proposing, a 2% across the board cut in our appropriation level as of this point. As of last night, the House and the Senate, through their Appropriations Committees, have appropriated for the approval of the respective Chambers, $10,780,000,000 in General Revenue Funds. The Governor has stated that unless we give him a budget at $10,400,000,000 General Revenue, that he will reduce those funds to that level. We recognize that, of course, there is some discrepancy as to what this Chamber may feel about the appropriate cuts versus the Governor. The Governor has stated that he will remove $113,000,000 from Higher Ed... Elementary and Secondary Education, and $47,000,000 from Higher Education, and $40,000,000 from other agencies, in achieving his 10.4 billion dollar level. We have presented a plan which we think will work. That plan calls for a spending level of 10.550 billion. It will call for the repayment of the 135  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 debt, 104,000,000. It will call for a checkbook balance of approximately $200 million. And, yes, it does call for a reduction in spending, that the House and Senate have set at this point at $10,780,000,000. Now I know that there are some people in this Chamber that would say, I want to prioritize cuts, and I want to make sure that cuts come out of this area or that area'. But, I'm telling you that the House and Senate have already, to the credit of the various Appropriation Committees, to their credit and to the credit of the action in the House and Senate, have already prioritized their areas of importance. For instance, in the area of Mental Health, the Senate added the other day, an additional 20 million dollars over the House level. In the area of corrections, the Senate yesterday added by voice vote, the sum of 30 million dollars. That's 50 million dollars in new spending that have been added. Under our plan, because we cut across the board, we can keep those spending levels at the relative level that the directors of these agencies tell us that they have to be. Under our plan we are not going to remove 113 million from Elementary and Secondary Education. Under our plan we are not going to remove 47 million dollars from Higher Ed. But instead, we are spreading it across the board. And, yes, as painful as it may be to some agencies, because we have many agencies in this State that have effectively kept spending low, but as painful as it may be, they will share in the burden to cut spending and to cut the burden on the taxpayers of Illinois. Let's make it clear right now, that to do anything other than to accept the 2% cut across the board, you are telling the taxpayers of Illinois, that you are in fact for a tax increase. And your record and your vote will indicate that. Because you know, and I know that if you cut 47 million out of Higher Ed, and 113 million out 136  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 of Elementary and Secondary, that you are forcing the action of the people of Illinois to come back to this Assembly in the fall. Now I don't know, and I don't understand, why some Members of this Chamber prefer to take cuts of that nature, so that the Chicago School System will not open in the fall. So that various universities throughout Illinois will not function appropriately and will not have the necessary dollars. But, I for one think, that in view of the fact that a tax increase does not appear to have the necessary momentum to pass, that the alternative is one that we, as responsible Legislators must take. In accordance with that, we owe it to the taxpayers of Illinois, and to the people of Illinois, to spread that burden of reduced spending. And I intend to support this Amendment. I intend to support the actions of the House and Senate to this date in prioritizing spending throughout Illinois. And I intend to go on record as saying I stood up and said it's time to cut some of the spending in Illinois. And it's time to eliminate the hypocrisy of people that believe that we could go on and spend, spend, spend. And I know, as the Republican Leader on this side of the aisle, that we Republicans will stand up and say cut spending in this State, and this is the responsible way to do it. If you don't join us, then you will be adding your vote for a tax increase, whether it be in the near future, or in the fall, and you know it, and we invite you to join us."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Well, we have just heard a magnificent speech on the Republican plan. The Republican plan to balance the budget. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, it is not a 137  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 plan, it is a political posture. It is a political posture, in every bit as much as the Governor's political posture. The Governor has flimflammed his way through one election, and then he flimflammed his way through another election, and now the Republicans are trying to flimflam their way through this Session. The point is this, Ladies and Gentlemen, we have reviewed the revenue figures. We have reviewed the budgets. We have a target level on this side of the aisle that is responsible, that will not require layoffs. The Gentleman referred specifically to Mental Health. I'm sorry he was not in the meeting this morning with Director Mandeville and Deputy Governor Reilly and the other Appropriations people, because I asked Director Mandeville point blank, will the budget ... Mental Health budget as it passed the House require layoffs, and he said no. He said, "However from a programmatic point of view, we may find that the most appropriate thing to do and so forth. In other words, Ladies and Gentlemen, he's blowing smoke. He says on the one hand, no it won't require lay offs, and on the other hand he's keeping his options open so the Governor can adopt a cynical position at the end of this Session and just willy-nilly slash out of this budget. The fact is, Ladies and Gentlemen, that we don't have to repay the debt immediately. We can roll it over, because the Illinois Supreme Court has said that the message tax is perfectly legal. We are, I think, heading into the United States Supreme Court with a very, very strong position. And so, we can roll that debt over. We can keep the budget balanced at a low level ... excuse me, the available balance at a low level. It's not the best thing to do under all circumstances, but under the present circumstances it's very appropriate to do. Because you know what will happen if we follow this alleged Republican 138  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 plan, this alleged Republican plan will provide us with almost 300 million in one time expenditures for this year. That's 300 million that won't have to be in the budget next year. That's 300 million that could be added to the normal growth next year and give the Governor almost three quarters of a billion dollars to roll around in like a pig in mud. And I think we should not give the Governor that kind of flexibility. We ought to keep him on a short leash. We have a responsible budget and we're going to pass it. We ... I stand in opposition to this Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Macon, Mr. Tate."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Chamber. The previous speaker gives you 50% of the story. The previous speaker, as well as the leaders on the other side of the aisle, were in a meeting with Dr. Mandeville yesterday, when Dr. Mandeville indicated that the Governor had a target figure of 10.4. At that time, both partisan staffs on a bipartisan basis, agreed that the current level of spending, at this time in the process, is 340 million dollars over that level. The Governor, at that time yesterday, announced what would happen if we pass a budget that remains 340 million dollars over what we can afford to spend. Now, the previous speaker has indicated that we have worked hard in the appropriation process on both Chambers, on both sides of the aisle, to reduce spending. We have, in fact, cut 807 million dollars out of the initial budget request at this time. But people, don't mislead yourself if you think that we have 340 million dollars to spend. We either find 340 million dollars in new revenue, or we cut 340 million dollars in revenue. Now If your position is no plan, if your position is no taxes, and if your position is no reduction in spending, and if your position is to keep an available balance, that is the 139  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 lowest available bala balance in the last eight years, at 36 million dollars, enough that everyone of us in this Chamber knows, is not enough money to pay for the bills in one day of spending in this State government. Enough that they know that in the month of February, in the month of November, that our available cash balance always goes down, that we'll be back here in those months trying to find additional money, then that's no plan. If your plan is a plan that says well, it's okay to borrow a hundred million dollars this year, and maybe if we get ... if things get tight next year, maybe we can borrow another hundred million dollars. If that plan is deficit spending, then I would suggest to you that we all ... maybe we need to go back and read the Constitution of this State. The Constitution of this State says that the State of Illinois has a responsibility, that we, as an Assembly have the responsibility to balance this budget. This, my colleagues, this is the plan. This is a plan that addresses each and every budget. What we're saying folks, is that hey, we think that there's 2% ... we think that we can go in and find in each agency 2% of fat in that budget. Let's go down in a methodic approach, a systematic approach to these agencies. Let's try to find the money. Let's make the cuts in the appropriate fashion. Let's give more money to Mental Health in this State. Let's keep the prisons open in this State. All of us sit in here, day in and day out, when we're in Session, we increase crime, we increase the penalties on crime, we keep saying let's lock up the criminals, yet you don't want to pay for the prisons. Folks, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth if you don't pay for the prisons, if you don't fund corrections appropriately. This plan does that. This plan takes care of the mentally ill people in this State. This 140  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 plan takes care of the abused children in this State. This plan meets the necessary needs of this State. And this plan respects taxpayers in this State. The right thing to do is to ... ... ...

"Ar. Tate Bring Mr. Tate Pardon. Mr. Tate, but bring your remarks to a close. Alright, the Gentlemen from Cook, Mr. Cullerton. Mr. Homer, the Gentleman from Fulton."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen. He listened to those arguments that ... to come up with $300 million dollars, there are only two choices before us. And the previous speaker said ... They're very simple. We either raise $300 million dollars in new revenue, or we cut spending by $300 million dollars. And that sounds like a very logical statement, until you look to see what's happened in prior years, and particularly last year and other years, which were election years in this State. And then we find, lo and behold, that there are other choices that are out there, that are used by this administration. Those choices are to reduce the year-end balance. Those choices include decisions to lapse payments to pay them over into the next year. Payments that are due this year, to not pay them this year, but to pay them in the next year. And we did that this year to the tune of $350 million dollars, and to engage in short term borrowing. All of those things we do in an election year. But now all of a sudden the election's over and won, and we're hearing from the other side that somehow now we have to make a choice between raising revenue and cutting ... or cutting programs. Well, let me just say as one Member on this side of the aisle, that I joined in other Members from our Caucus when we directed our leadership and our staff, to put together a budget that would be a no tax budget, that 141  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 would have two objectives. Number 1, would require or result in no layoffs of any State employees. Not one layoff. Objective number 2, to make certain that we maintain all current State programs. Our staff has worked diligently, put together a budget that accomplishes that, which can be done, a budget that's very reasonable, one that's responsible, and one that we need to put on the Governor's desk. Now granted, the Governor has great power, and he can cut that budget all that he wants, but it's a budget that meets the criteria, it's a budget that calls for no tax increase, it's a budget that calls for no layoffs, it's a budget that calls for no reduction in programs. And if anything else occurs, then in fact the responsibility will fall squarely where it belongs, on this administration's shoulders, and not on the shoulders of this General Assembly."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With the ... I agree with Representative Homer's remarks entirely. To the Gentlemen that have risen on the other side of the aisle, send out your irresponsible action press releases like you do every year, and tell everybody the sky is going to fall, chicken little, and your gloom and doom. But we know what it really amounted to, because the photographer ran through 4 rolls of film on your side of the aisle, taking all the pictures for the press releases and the newsletters. This might help us stop supplementals in the fall and the spring. And if everybody was really concerned with the ending balance of 200 mil next year, they would have done something about it from another floor this year, with a $34 million dollar ending balance, as we've been advised. It just keeps falling. We ask leave that the other side of the aisle can revise and extend their remarks for the 142  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day Journal, and let's get on with it.”

June 25, 1987 "The Gentleman from Livingston, Mr. Ewing."

"Mг. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think most of you know that I dealt with revenue matters in this General Assembly for a number of years. I think most of you know, I hope you know, or feel that I'm responsible when It comes to funding State government. I have been working for several weeks on efforts to try and make our revenues go around to meet the needed expenditures of State government. I think everyone here, in this House, should recognize and probably will admit that we have a serious problem in Illinois. A problem partly of our own making, yes, and partly of the administration. But yet, a problem which we need to solve in this General Assembly. That's our responsibility. Now some speakers on the other side of the aisle may shout politics, may say we're just making a fuss for political reasons, but Ladies and Gentlemen, we are trying ... we are trying ... See, they even come over on this side. We are trying to solve a problem. And in the efforts that I have made to try and solve that problem. I think it's very difficult to cut out the amount of money that we need to balance this budget. But I do believe, and I think everyone of your taxpayers back home believes, that there's a little fat in every budget. We know there's a little fat in every budget. And this proposal would take that fat out of the budget. It would require the Governor and the Department heads in each one, to weed out the fat, not cut out the programs, not do what we need to do in Illinois for senior citizens and mentally ill and for corrections and for all the different services, but cut out the fat. Let's put politics aside for a moment. Let's do this. Let's cut the budget. Let's send it to the Governor. We can all take credit for it. We won't get a 143  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 corner on the credit if you join with us. And I ask you to earnestly put aside the light remarks over there, and join us in what we consider to be a very earnest effort to solve a problem."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton."

"Yes, will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he'll yield for questions."

"Representative Mays, you're the offerer of the Amendment?"

"Yes, I am."

"A question was raised by one of the previous speakers and I had a question about it. This plan that you have is designed to pay off a hundred million dollar loan. Is that right?"

"May I simply say that I ... I've been kind of astounded to hear some of the remarks on your side of the aisle. What we have in front of us right here ..."

"Wait a minute. Representative Mays, I really just want to ask a few quick questions."

"And I'm trying to respond."

"But I haven't even asked ... I asked you a question about a hundred million dollar loan."

"Go right ahead. Ask the question."

"Okay. You're plan is designed to pay off rather than renew a hundred million dollar loan. Is that correct?"

"What our plan, as exemplified in the Amendment before you does, simply cuts spending by 2%. The Auditor General's Office can take a cut of 2%. You may not like it, but it's what we have to do to come up with around $230 million dollars to reach a target goal."

"Okay. So the goal is to come up with $230 million dollars and ..."

"And this is a key part, just like every Amendment that we 144  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 will address, it's going to be a key part.

"Okay. So, of that $230 million, you're going to pay off a hundred million dollar loan, and you're going to have a $200 million dollar reserve at the end of the Fiscal Year. Is that correct?"

"That depends upon the action of this Assembly. It also depends upon the action of the Governor."

"Alright, now I've got a question about the hundred million dollar loan. It was suggested by a previous speaker, that if you borrow money, that somehow that violates the Constitution, requiring a balanced budget. And my question to you is, haven't we gone out and borrowed a hundred million dollars right now?"

"I'm just a little country boy trying to tell people back home that understand a budget, that know how to live on a shoestring, that we've got to live within our means. If we've incurred debts over this year, maybe we should pay them back, because we don't know what next years end of year balance is going to be. We don't know what next years economic climate is going to be. Maybe we should start addressing the problems that we know we have right now."

"Mr. Speaker, instead of ... he's giving his closing and I'm trying to ask a question. I've not been on the Appropriations Committee, and I really don't understand all of the intricacies, and I wish you'd just address this issue. Could you tell me what steps did the Governor take with regard to borrowing a hundred million dollars during this Fiscal Year? What did he do? He borrowed a hundred million dollars?"

"Mr. Speaker, I've got a parliamentary question. Is the Gentleman speaking to this Amendment?"

"I'm speaking to the speeches."

"We've got a $210,000 Amendment here. Speak to the 145  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day Amendment. I'll gladly answer ..." June 25, 1987

"Alright, Mr. Cullerton has put a question. It is within the province of the maker of that Motion to respond and to yield for that question, or to not yield, or to answer it as best you can. Proceed, Mr. Mays, in response to Mr. Cullerton."

"I have chosen address the Amendment that is before us. Because it is a $210,000 Amendment out of the Auditor General's budget. That's all it is. It doesn't pretend to be anymore than that."

"Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker."

"Mr. Cullerton?"

"And there will be other Amendments and we can address questions on those too."

"Mr. Speaker, if I ... I'm sorry."

"Mr. Cullerton?"

"I understand that the Amendment is $210,000, but I heard a bunch of speeches that didn't even talk about this Auditor General's appropriation. We heard a bunch of speeches about the plan. And I'm asking a question about the plan. And I'm simply asking you whether or not it's Constitutional to go out and borrow a hundred million dollars and not pay it off by the end of the Fiscal Year. Is that Constitutional? Now that's part of the plan. Your plan is to pay off that hundred million dollars, I presume. And I'm asking you why can't we ... is it impossible, is it unconstitutional for us to roll it over, like most people do when they manage their own finances?"

"Representative, we've heard some speeches on your side of the aisle, also, that don't particularly pertain to this specific Amendment. And I was wondering, you know, I was kind of wondering what they were talking about too, because I haven't even seen any plan over there." 146  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"No, I'm talking about your plan. Could you please answer my question with regard to the hundred million ..."

"This Amendment cuts $210,000 from the Auditor General's budget over and above the $191,000 that we cut to bring it down to the '87 expenditure level."

"Alright. So, there's another part of the plan. That's the $200 million dollar surplus at the end of the Fiscal Year. Now this Fiscal Year, what is our surplus?"

"This Amendment is $210,000."

"Okay. Well, thank you. Mr. Speaker, apparently we came from ... we came from listening to a grandiose speech about the plan, to a speech where this Amendment only talks about $210,000 and you're not allowed to ask any more questions about the plan. No cross examination of the plan, just sit there, listen to our speeches, and then vote to cut $210,000. I have no further questions."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Pedersen."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, that's Pedersen, thank you."

"I'll get it right, Mr. Pedersen."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I recently made a large mailing in my district and I was asking a lot of questions about the proposed tax increases. They haven't got them all in yet, but the results are already high ..."

"Yes, excuse me, Mr. Pedersen. Mr. Cullerton, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Speaker, we're talking about a $210,000 Amendment to the Auditor General's budget. That's all we're allowed to talk about. He's talking about a mailing he did in his district for tax increases. It's not addressing ..."

"Alright. Thank you. I got your point, Mr. Cullerton. Thank you. The Chair, in deference and respect 147  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 to the Minority Leader, gave the Minority Leader a great leeway in his remarks, as we would do to any Leader on this Floor. But Mr. Pedersen, please keep your remarks directed to the Amendment, Sir. Mr. McCracken, are you

"Well, Mr. Speaker, all I'm really talking about is tax

"Excuse me. Mr. McCracken, do you rise on a point of order? Mr. McCracken, point of order."

"I know that you will enforce that on both sides of the aisle."

"Both ways. Both ways."

"... And Representative Cullerton's questioning about the plan, and his refusal to talk about his plan, will not be entertained. We'll confine ourselves to the merits of the Amendments."

"Well, we've passed that, that's mote at this point... Again, we gave Mr. Daniels great leeway, and we will respect him and others who question from the Floor. Now, Mr. Pedersen. Let Mr. Pedersen please give his remarks to this Amendment."

"Well, Mr. Speaker. All I was really going to talk about was ... were the results we got on what the people in my district feel about tax increases and living within the budget. Living and having to cut, if we have to cut. This particular Amendment is talking about some cuts. And so I thought maybe it might be of interest to this Body, that perhaps they'd like to know how the people might feel my district feel about cuts. The mailing that we're talking about on these tax increases ... I haven't got them all in yet, but I ... Frankly, I was really surprised by the numbers and the percentages. We had 76.6% 'nos to 92.3% 'nos'. They're mostly clustered in the high 80's. But the interesting question was the one that said "Are you 148  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 in favor of maintaining our current tax base by cutting back on proposed increases in the 1988 budget..."

"Mr. Pedersen. Mr. Pedersen. To the Amendment, Sir. To the Amendment."

"... And that was 87.2%."

"Yes. To the Amendment, Mr. Pedersen."

"So, as Legislators, through the appropriation process, we have already established our priorities. So, 2% across the board is the most responsible approach and that's what we're talking about in this Amendment. And I think it's better for us to make the cuts now, than have the Governor do it for us later."

"Mr. Cullerton..."

"This is a responsible approach. And I ask all colleagues on both sides of the aisle to join us in this effort on this Amendment and all the Amendments to come. Thank you."

"Mr. Cullerton, do you rise on a point of order, Sir?"

"Even though Representative Mays is the Sponsor of the Amendment, I wonder if Representative Pedersen can answer my questions about the plan. Would that be..."

"Well, his time is ... he's yielded his time already. So I don't think he can. Alright. Further discussion on this issue, the Gentleman from Winnebago. Mr. Hallock."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. I rise in support of the Amendment. And I must say to all of you here today, that this, of course, is not an easy thing to do necessarily, but we are in a predicament here and I think we all acknowledge that. No one here on either side of the aisle, no matter what your philosophy is or where you come from in the terms of the State of Illinois, will 149  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 deny the fact that we don't have a crisis in this State. Whether you attribute that crisis to the numbers of the BOB, the numbers presented by Economic and Fiscal, both of those agencies agree there is a crisis here. And we can do something. or We can do nothing. I say to you it's imperative that we do something. And I tell you one thing, in my district in Rockford, Illinois, it's far more important to them that we preserve things like Education and Mental Health funding, than that we save the Auditor General's budget. There's no doubt in my mind that's the way it is. And we do have a plan. And you may be facetious and mock that plan in your jocular fashion, but if you had a plan you'd be joining us in this respect. We have to do this. We have to cut the budget down, or face a tax increase. You know that and I know that. Now we, here in the Legislature, have responsibilities. In this form of government, it is our duty to allocate those expenses. The Governor, of course, in his respective duties will act accordingly, but we have to set the guidelines and send the budget down to him. This is the responsible thing to do and I urge you to join us."

"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Flinn."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman from St. Clair moves the previous question be put. All in favor say 'aye', those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it. Mr. Mays to close."

"No, we didn't move it."

"Mr. McCracken, for what purpose are you seeking recognition?"

"A Roll Call on that vote. It takes 71 votes. We want that Roll Call." 150  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"Pardon, there were no speakers."

"Oh, there are no speakers." June 25, 1987

"No, your light was not on, Mr. Stephens. Mr. Hallock."

"The previous speaker moved the previous question and we shouted 'no' to that. And we're entitled to a Roll Call on that issue. And we will oppose it."

"Absolutely. Absolutely. All those in favor ... The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Flinn has moved that the previous question be put. All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 64 'aye', 47 'no'. And the Motion fails. Further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Piel."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The Amendment was introduced as a lead of a plan. The Speaker of the House, Mr. Madigan has stated on many different occasions that he felt that... you know, Mr. Daniels, being the Republican Leader, should take the lead. And so this is the first Amendment on what we would classify a lead. Mr. Homer mentioned that their budget meant something. And Tom, in all sincerity, there are probably areas of your budget that we could agree to, but unfortunately we haven't seen it yet. My question would be what cuts are going to made, and what increases are going to be made? If you're making large cuts in certain areas, you're going to have to be making large increases in other areas. This ... None of us like to cut, I mean let's face it, but this is the type of situation, Ladies and Gentlemen, that we're sent down here for. 99% of your votes on this House Floor are easy votes. Every once in a while you have that 1% to where you have to sit here and 151  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 really scrutinize and agonize over your vote. And this happens to be ... this happens to be the situation. Now we're getting down to the budget process in a tight Fiscal Year, we have to. This is a situation also, to where we're not going to sit here and say, okay fine. If you have a mental health facility in your area, if you have a corrections facility in your area, obviously you're more inclined to vote with them. But this is a situation that's fair. It's fair to everybody in the State. It's not easy to make these cuts, but it's fair. 2% across the board. And none of you can go home, whether it be you or I, can go back to our constituents and say that there's no waste in State government, let's face reality. Every State budget can cut 2% of fat out. Every State budget can do it. And I think that's what we have to do. We have to be fair. We don't want to cut. We don't want to have to raise taxes, but we're getting down to the last days of Session. We've got to do something for the people of the State of Illinois. It's not a popular thing to go back home and say "Hey, you know I had to cut a little bit out of your budget', but it's a hell of a lot more popular than going home and telling your people, "I'm sorry, but I had to raise taxes to fund State government'. The longer you're down here, the more you're going to see our budgets increase. I've been down here nine years. It was $11 billion dollars the first year I was down here. What is it now? $20 billion dollars. It goes up every single year. We've come to a time when we have to pay the piper. 2% across the board isn't a great cut. It's going to hurt a little bit, but it's not going to hurt a lot. Raising taxes is going to hurt a lot. It's going to hurt our constituents, yours and mine. Whether you be rural, whether you be urban, it's going to hurt our constituents. 152  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 And none of our constituents back home are sitting there saying 'Hey, I want higher taxes'. Nobody wants higher taxes. Not you, not I, not our constituents. This is a sound, fiscal answer to our problem. A 2% across the board. I would ask for an aye vote on Amendment #5, the start of a sound, fiscal program for the State of Illinois. Thank you."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, the Chair would like to remind Members that in five minutes, the time for registering your votes on the Consent Calendar, will have elapsed. So there are five minutes more to return your voting sheets to the Clerk on the Consent Calendar. And now we're turning to the consideration of this Bill ... this Amendment. The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Stephens."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of the Amendment. I've got several reasons why I support the Amendment, but I wish that my friends on the other side of the aisle would consider that if you don't support this Amendment, and those to follow that are like Amendments, my seatmate is liable to have a heart attack. He gets excited about spending State money. I've already had to buy him some throat lozenges. We would appeal to your sense of humanity for Representative Tate's sake, that we just go ahead and support these Amendments that are a modest cut in each department's budget, so that we can go back home, tell the people of our districts and tell the people of Illinois, that we realized that we don't have enough money to support the budget at the $10,780,000,000 level that we're at now. If you believe that we ought to raise taxes, then you ought to vote 'no' on this Amendment. If you believe, like I do, that we ought to live within our means as a State government, like the people back home that have 153  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 the family budget, that they cannot reach into their pockets and grab tax dollars just at your will. They can't reach in and grab $5 dollars a week and hand it to the people in Springfield, because we can't face the tough issue of whether or not we can cut the Auditor General's budget by 2%. Can or cannot the Auditor General run his department on 98% of the budget that he has requested. I suggest that he can. That's what the purpose of the Amendment is, $210,000. I suggest that he will hardly miss it, if he tries to cut some of the fat out of his budget. Look at the numbers, Ladies and Gentlemen. We just don't have the money. So when you vote on this and subsequent Amendments, what you're saying is, if you're opposed to cutting the budget, then you, and you alone, are in favor of raising taxes. You have to take that message back home. I prefer to take the message back home that yes, Ladies and Gentlemen, State government can live within its means, the same way that we ask you to live within your budget. So on behalf of the people of the State of Illinois, and my seatmate, Mike Tate, I would appreciate your 'aye vote."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Governor has stated in no uncertain terms that he needs to get down to a $10.4 billion dollar budget in General Revenue funds. Passing out the budget at the '87 level, which I believe is your plan, although I don't know for sure, does not do that. If we leave here, 2 or 300 million dollars above that plan, the Governor with his Amendatory Veto power, is going to reduce the budget unilaterally. He isn't going to ask you where the cuts should come. He isn't going to ask us where the cuts should go. He's going to take his pen and he's going to cut where he sees fit. Now, I think that if we allow him to do that, if we stay here and pass an *87 154  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 budget. a flat or maintenance budget, that does not take his intentions into account, when he's already expressed them to US in no uncertain terms, then we are abdicating our duty. It is the General Assembly that sets the appropriations. It is the General Assembly that, by law, is obligated to do that. The Governor, under the Constitution can only cut funds, but if you walk away, you in effect have abdicated the appropriations process to the Governor, to the Executive Branch of our government. He's already told us what he's going to do if we pass out the '87 budget. He's already told us that he's going to cut. And he's already told us in some cases where he's going to cut. If you allow him to do that, you abdicate your duty. But there's a more practical reason why you should be on board with this 2% program. And it's because you will participate in making those decisions that will bring us down to an operating level that cannot be cut unilaterally, that cannot be cut without our participation any further. This is the only way to stay in the game. This is the only alternative we have. Any plan other than the 2% plan ignores the reality of our system of government. Don't do that. Don't abdicate your responsibility. This 2% cut is the only means for effecting that. And I ask for your support."

"The Gentleman from McLean, Mr. Ropp."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Really, the first Bill that we should have dealt with on this particular issue, is whether or not we would all want to support a tax increase or not. Now, since that has not taken place, we must live within the means that we currently have. I dare say, there's not a Legislator in here, that will feel some impact on trying to stay within the budgetary means. The Governor has said, as well as 155  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 many other elected officials from both parties, that the State should have a minimum working balance at the end of the year of $200 million dollars. That means, in fact, that we have to make some sincere decisions about what we are going to do with the available dollars that we have. I really don't think that anyone wants to make any of these hard decisions. but I think that's our responsibility. Having served on the Appropriations Committee for several years. I want to commend every Member on both sides of the aisle, as well as in both Chambers. Because I think for the first time in many years, we act with deep, sincere responsibility. Now, in addition to that, we have to make some sincere decisions. It is the intent of this side of the aisle to make that equal and fair for every agency and every group that we appropriate monies to. 2% is fair. It's going to hurt my universities. 2% is equitable. It's going to hurt some programs, that I think, are very important. But the concern about equality and fairness, is something that I think we should rise above and support. That process begins with this particular Bill. It's not a lot money, but it's the intent and the sincere effort that I think we, as Legislators, must respond to in order to live within our means. Sure, we could get our budget of down to $34 million at the end of the year. but I don't think that's a good idea. I don't think anyone of us hope that our own personal budgets, get below whatever standard you establish. This provides for a sincere rainy day fund in case of an emergency, should it arise. I urge all of you to support this plan, this program, so that we all can live within our means. Thank you."

"Mr. Mays, to close."

"Thank you, very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Now this is my first term as a spokesman on the 156  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Appropriations Committee, and I've got ... I've got to tell you, I have learned a lot. Members of both sides of the aisle have cooperated and talked, cajoled, and sometimes we fought, but together, up to this point, I think we've cut around $800 million dollars from the introduced budget. And some people can say 'Yeah, but there's new programs in there and there's expanded programs in there, and it's easy to cut those', but those of us on the Appropriations Committee, I imagine everybody in this Chamber knows, once they're in that book, they're an entitlement, and taking one dollar out of it is tough. But we've done it, we've stuck together as a House, Democrat and Republican, in taking down about $800 million dollars. And we've got a crunch here. Our target was not the same as the Governor's for various reasons. Some of those reasons are targeted end of year balances. Some are priorities as far as 104 pay back. There's nothing we can do about that. We have to accept the target level that the Governor says he will have, because it gets to his court once it leaves here. The fact of the matter is, we've got about $230 million dollars more to cut. We can do that step by step, as we move through this process. And I hope you guys will look at the Amendments, and go with us on this. This is $210,000 in the Auditor General's budget. It is ... even the Auditor General can live with this cut. It is not an emotional string-pulling type of thing that we can't do. It is something that I would insist that we must do, if we are going to live up to our part of the process, as I've been taught... taught it that, and that is, we spend the dollars, we appropriate the dollars. The Governor simply approves them. Don't put us in a position of coming back far too late, having to react to Governor cuts that he has already said he would make. Please support this Amendment. 157  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day I really think we can put ..." June 25, 1987

"Put Mr. Mays on so he may complete his sentence. Mr. Mays."

"Thank you, very much, Mr. Speaker. Please go with us on this. I think it's a rational, logical plan, and we can continue to work together. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted?' All in favor signify by saying 'aye', those ... Would you wish a Roll Call on this? Oh, alright. The question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Kulas, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. You know, after you put on a political dog and pony show like the Republicans just did, you leave behind a lot of manure. Now if you believe that these votes are going to do anything as far as the budget is concerned, you live in never-never land. Now you know all these things are going to go to Conference Committee. You know they're going to come back. The Leaders will sit down with Big Jim and Dr. Bob. They'll cut the pies up. They'll make the deals. And we can come back June 30th and just rubber stamp them."

"The Gentleman from Morgan, Mr. Ryder, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish, I wish that there were some way of adequately responding to the previous speaker about the duty that we have in this Chamber. That's fine. If you want to let Jim and the Four Tops go in there and decide your duty, you go ahead. I'm taking a stand. To my astonishment, the Appropriations Committees have already 158  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 taken away 800 million dollars by hard work. And that's close, but it's not close enough. This appropriation Amendment and it's kind, as we're going to see this afternoon, make that little difference that makes all the difference of the Legislature doing the job that they're supposed to do. And that's setting the appropriations for this State. Nobody else has that job, and nobody else should have it. It's ours and we should keep it."

"On this question there are 48 voting 'aye', 66 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. The Amendment fails. Further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill on Third Reading. Excuse me, Mr. Clerk. Are there any ... Are there any Members who have not turned in their vote, or change of vote, with respect to the Consent Calendar? If any Members have not, this is the moment. We are presently closing the vote. Thank you. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill on Third Reading."

"Senate Bill 237, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Auditor General. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane. Mr. Leverenz, will you ... You're going to take that? Mr. Leverenz."

"Yeah, I'm on the Bill. This would provide for the Office of the Auditor General, their annual appropriation. I would ask for your 'aye' vote for Senate Bill 237 for $10,565,300."

"That's not necessary. You can proceed. The Bill has been read a third time and you may proceed."

"I did. Leave to have ..."

"Alright. Question ... the Gentleman from Cook, 159  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Mr. Leverenz moves for the passage of Senate Bill 237. And on that, the Gentleman from Adams, Mr. Mays."

"Thank you, very much, Mr. Speaker. I would rise in opposition to this Bill at this level. It is a level that I think everyone would acknowledge, we cannot support, with existing revenues and existing obligations that we have incurred. At this time, I would simply rise in opposition."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Ar. Bowman."

"Just to make one point. We've heard a great deal about this Republican plan, but I want to assure everybody, there is a Democratic plan. The Committees have shaped these Bills. The Bills, as they are on the Floor, reflect a Democratic plan, and that plan does not require the Governor to make the kind of draconian cuts that he is alleging that he is ... will be required to make. Therefore, this Bill is a very responsible Bill in its current form. And I urge its passage."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Hallock."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I also rise in opposition to this Bill. And unfortunately, there has been occurring here today, some rather mocking comments about what we believe is a very important issue of the State right now, and that's the State budget. And that's why we propose this plan. And I think it's the only plan in town so far. You know we have, what appears to be a Democratic plan. While we're trying to cut, I've had a couple Amendments hit my desk, here's one for $2.1 million for the Village of Gilman. Here's an Amendment for $76,000 for a City called Cedar Brook, at a time when we, on this side of the aisle, are trying to cut spending so we can, in fact, avoid a tax increase and fund what has to be funded. We have Amendments hitting our desks sponsored by Democratic 160  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Members which will really bust the budget. Now here's your choice. You can join us in this respect and try to make sure we fund what we should be funding, or you can bust the budget and raise taxes and spend money where it shouldn't be going. It's your decision. Join us and vote 'no' on this Bill."

"The Gentleman from Madison, Mr. Wolf."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman moves the previous question be put. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment ... and the previous question be put. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For Senate Bill 237, an appropriation of $10,565,300. I would ask for your 'aye' vote and do the responsible thing and pass this Bill."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. This is final action. The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Stephens, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm glad to hear that the Democrats do have a plan. And I hope that everybody in the press is listening. The plan is to spend, spend, spend. The money is not there. They're putting the votes up there to pass the Bill that we can't afford, that we can't pay for. Representative Bowman suggested, 'Well let's let the $100 million dollars go until next year'. That's how you get in trouble. That's how the United States Congress got in trouble. That's how you're going to get the State of Illinois in trouble. The responsible thing to do is to bring this budget back, cut it, so that we can afford the budget that the Auditor General needs." 161  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 68th Legislative Day

"The Gentleman from Macon, Mr. Dunn, one minute to explain your vote."

"I just think it's kind of ironic, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, that people on the other side of the aisle are attacking this budget. They talk about being conservative and watching pennies and nickels, and this is the budget for the watch dog. This is the one agency we should be funding to get out there and do what they want to do. I don't understand. They sure are inconsistent. It doesn't make any sense to me. All we need is green votes all the way around on this Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Terzich, one minute to explain your vote. Mr. Pedersen, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. As Legislators through the appropriation process, we've already established our priorities. The 2% across the board is a most responsible approach. And I think the important thing to remember, it's better for us to make the cuts now, then to have the Governor do it for us later."

"Ms. Doederlein, one minute to explain your vote."

"Well, I read all the Auditor General's reports, and if you read them, you know that there is ... that we should look at them and take some action on them. There was ... One of the reports said that there was $117 million dollars of plastic forks and plastic aprons spent for, and they only use 20,000 a year. Now that means that you purchase rubber aprons and plastic forks for six years ahead of time. Also, there are other things that we can cut, and I'm sure that this would be a good budget for the Auditor General to start. And I'm sure he could put 2% from his budget." 162  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 67 'ayes', none voting 'no', 47 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Breslin in the Chair."

"The next Bill is on page 10 on your Calendar, Senate Bill 283, Representative Hoffman. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 283, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for Higher Education. It's been read a second time previously."

"Are there any Motions or Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representative Tate."

"Representative Tate."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #1 reduces the GRF Appropriation to the Board of Higher Education by 2%, through an across the board reductions in all line items except for personal services and contractual services. GRF personal services funding remains the same as the Committee action. Contractual services funding in reduced by 9.3 to maintain an overall reduction of 2%. This would be an approximate 24 million dollar ... This would be a GRF reduction of $788,000. Ladies and Gentlemen of the Chamber, we have a very simple choice. We can allow the Governor to reduce the Higher Education budget by $47 million, or we can reduce across the board cuts by 2%. I would suggest to you, if you care about students in this State, if you don't want to see large tuition increases in this State, if you want to preserve the quality of programs that we currently have in Higher Education in this State, then you adopt a 2% 163  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 across the board plan. I move for its adoption."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 283. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman. Representative Bowman?"

"Thank you. Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"He will."

"Representative Tate, I was not chairing the session of the Committee where this budget was heard. Did you offer this Amendment in Committee?"

"No."

"You didn't offer the Amendment in Committee?"

"No."

"I'm really shocked, because after all the speeches that we have heard today, from you and from your Leaders on the other side of the aisle about the need for cutting more and more and more, why weren't these Amendments offered in Committee? Is this an impromptu plan? Is it an improvised plan? Is this a seat of the pants plan, or what is it?"

"Chairman, of all people ... Of all people that know budgets, know revenue flow in this State, you were in the back rooms two days ago, attempting to negotiate cuts, agreed cuts. You and I both know. in the cooperative spirit that we have participated in in this process, you and I both know, that an agreement arrived two days ago. could only cut $20 million dollars in an attempt under an assigned target date that both of us agreed to, was an additional $215 million dollars. Now this is the beginning of that process. If you want to continue to relinquish your responsibility, if you want to continue to give the Governor of this State, total discretion over the appropriation process, then the proper thing to do is to pass out these budgets at whatever figure you want to pass 164  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 them out, and let the Governor do the appropriation process. This is a responsible approach to this process, and I move for its adoption."

"Well, thank you, Madam Chair, just very briefly... I just wanted to point out to the Membership, most of whom did not serve on the Appropriations Committees. that indeed, there was a bipartisan spirit in the Appropriations Committees. And indeed, we did cut out $800 million dollars in the Appropriations Committees. And indeed, everything was just hunky-dorey until this morning. And this morning, suddenly, we have this impromptu plan popped on us. Now if everything was okay in Committee, and everything was okay yesterday, what happened between yesterday and 8:00 this morning? Well, I think sometime between yesterday and 8:00 this morning, the Republicans realized they're going to have a chance to make some speeches on the Floor of the House, and gee. they needed something to talk about. So, suddenly we have these Amendments. I urge defeat of this Amendment."

"The Gentleman from McHenry, Representative Klemm."

"Well, I'm a little bit shocked, because serving on the Appropriations Committee, all the Members know that we weren't allowed to put any Amendments in until practically the very last day when Bills had to get out. So, it's really not fair to sit there and say that you had the whole Session to make Amendments. You know it was pretty well controlled. We all are aware of that. So I think it's a phony excuse that you're trying to say that, now, when we finally can put the puzzles together, try to add up the pieces of what we have to work with, that it's inappropriate to make constructive suggestions on Amendments. There is no quarrel that we may disagree or 165  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 agree on different Amendments, but to say that we don't as a minority party, and a minority of this House, have an opportunity at least to make suggestions in good faith, is really wrong. And I think this Amendment needs to be passed."

"The Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite."

"Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He will."

"Representative Tate, my understanding was that we will have more General Revenue funds to expend in next year's budget, than we have in the current year. Would you tell me what happens in regard to last year's General Revenue funds expenditures for this agency in the Bill before us and in your Amendment?"

"Repeat that question."

"Briefly, Representative Satterthwaite, to repeat the question. Would you turn on Representative Satterthwaite, please."

"Would you tell us how the budget before us in Senate Bill 283, compares with your Amendment relative to General Revenue funds available to this agency for the current year and next year?"

"Well, that's pretty easy. What this Amendment does, is it's a 2% cut."

"So, what we're saying is, that even though we will have more General Revenue funds in next year's total budget, than we have in this year's total budget for this agency, they should get less General Revenue sharing funds than they do currently."

"We're saying that about every agency."

"Well, my understanding is, however, that..."

"The only approach that ... Under our plan, a methodical 166  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 approach, a fiscally sound approach to bring GRF Revenue flow in line with current levels of appropriation and spending, is an across the board, 2% cut. Representative Satterthwaite, we are currently, by our own ... by your staff's own figures, $340 million dollars over the Governor's $10.4 figure ..."

"Mr. Tate, I am referring only to the Bill before us."

"The Governor has indicated yesterday, that he will cut Higher Ed ..."

"Turn off Representative Tate. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a debate. Would you state your question. Representative Satterthwaite, if you still wish to state a question. Otherwise make a statement on the Amendment. Representative Satterthwaite."

"Yes, Madam Speaker and Members of the House. The point I'm trying to make, is that no one has said there will be less General Revenue money to be expended in next year's budget than what we currently have. In fact, the Bureau of the Budget and the Economic and Fiscal Commission both agree that there will be more money. The budget, as it stands in the Bill itself, is at last year's level. I don't believe that we intend to punish education by expending less for Higher Education in General Revenue money than we gave them last year. And for that reason, I would strongly suggest that we make our savings somewhere in the Code Departments, rather than on the backs of education. And I would urge a rejection of this Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Adams, Representative Mays."

"Thank you, very much, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. As I see this Amendment before us, it does make some cuts that I think makes some us feel not too 167  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 good. By the same token, I believe it's something that we have gotten ourselves into, over the past two or three years from spending more than our revenues have been able to support. Now, we've given the Governor the fall for that. We've accused him of spending, or signing into legislation, all the expenditures that we've had over these years to put us in this spot. But, frankly, he cut about $300 million last year. And he's going to cut about $350 million this year if we don't do it ourselves. Now, let me explain to you, and I'm sure most of you are more knowledgeable on this than myself, but as I have been led to believe, if we don't do this, the Governor has said he will cut $47 million. So you can choose your poison. You can either cut $26 million across the board, plus the $210,000 you did not cut in the Auditor General's budget, or you can pass the Bill out at its current expenditure level and then wring your hands when the Governor does exactly what he tells you he's going to do, because he doesn't have any choice. Then you can come back here in the Fall Veto Session and you can say to all those universities in your districts that you're going to go to bat for them, and you're going to go override the Governor, and then you'll put us in a tax increase spot. I, frankly, think the decision is now. It's before us. We ought to do it. We ought to bite the bullet. That's what this is all about. And I rise in support of the Amendment."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz."

"Sponsor yield?"

"He will."

"It's a 2% Amendment and like milk, isn't too whole. But could you tell us how much money it will reduce the budget by?" 168  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"$800 or $788,000."

"$788,000."

"$614 dollars."

"Which is it?"

"$788,614." June 25, 1987

"And this is across all line items in the budget. Is Tate: that correct, or does it all come out of one area?" "Except personal services and contractual."

"What do you mean, except?"

"Well, it's 2% across with those two exceptions."

"Well, what lines are you cutting then? What things are going to be missing?"

"Okay. Regular operations. grant lines, equipment, telecommunications."

"So your Amendment doesn't ...?"

"Do you need a copy of the Amendment, would you like to read it?"

"No, I'd rather ask you questions."

"Okay, that's fine."

"My staff and you have always kept me well-informed. It provides for no layoffs, is that correct? You want me to ask again?"

"No."

"It provides for no layoffs. Is that correct?"

"Correct."

"And did they say that they can live with this 2% Amendment? How does the agency feel about this?"

"Well, I'll tell you what, if you've seen an agency around here that is satisfied with their budget, I'd like to bring them over. I want to sponsor their Bill."

"No, I was just seriously asking how the Illinois Board of Higher Education feels about the Amendment. Have they communicated their feelings to you or ...?" 169  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"No, they have not."

"They don't care?" June 25, 1987

"They have not communicated their position on the 2% cut."

"And then finally if we adopt the Amendment, if we..."

"But, I think... I think Members have heard from students across the State of Illinois on tuition increases, and I think that Members have heard from faculty members across the State of Illinois, and the alternatives right now ... I mean this is a simple one. This is the Board of Higher Education. This is the administration. I mean, we're not talking about ..."

"You don't take away from the administration, Sir."

"We're not talking about... I mean, this is the one that we all should be for. I mean, we're not talking about students that are going to be required under a current flat budget level that the Governor has indicated to us, that will require substantial tuition increases in this State. We're talking about a $788,000 out of the Board of Higher Education."

"Let me try to get my remarks to a close. You keep saying ... Let me try to bring my remarks to a hasty close. But you keep saying the administration of, yet you didn't cut any personal services. You indicated that you cut grants. Could you enumerate the grants that would be cut?"

"By not cutting those, we ..."

"But just tell me which ones."

"We protect the integrity of the Board. And we felt those were the most justifiable areas to come up with that 2%."

"I understand that. My question was what grants ... enumerate the names of the titles of the grants that you cut? I simply want to know which one of my constituents gets hurt by your Amendment." 170  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"Service Education grants, Health Service Education grants, Inner Institution grants, Library Resource Sharing Projects, Minority Education Achievement, Quad Cities Graduate Study Center. Those are the list."

"So your Amendment is going to hurt all of those? So my press release should go out there saying that I helped save them by voting against your Amendment. Is that correct?"

"As long as you combine that with the additional press release that when we're back here in July and next fall trying to find additional money, that you're on the program. We have a program. We're still waiting for your Speaker's program."

"I have one final question of the Sponsor."

"You got it."

"Are your suspenders too tight?"

"No."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"Yes, would the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes."

"Representative Tate, earlier you made reference to ... in the plan or the... how it's called the program, about a hundred million dollar loan and you suggested, perhaps, that the Constitution might be violated if at the end of a Fiscal Year, there's a hundred million dollar loan out there, since the Constitution requires a balanced budget."

"No, I didn't suggest that. I suggested that under your alternative plan, that more than likely one of the options that you are going to provide the taxpayers of Illinois is to provide for additional loans. And that is probably the 171  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 only option that the Governor might have if he has to come up with $340 million since you're not willing to cut that kind of money."

"So, let me ask you this ..."

"I mean, currently I think the statute provides where we can borrow up to 15% of GRF funding. That's what the statute ..."

"Okay. That's what I want ... That's what I want to get into."

"That's what the statute provides. 15% of GRF funding."

"The law allows ... How much would that ... What's the maximum... would that be?"

"15% of GRF funding? Well, that would depend on how much you're prepared to spend in GRF funding. So under the Governor's program, that he announced yesterday, that would be $10.4. So, you'd have to figure out what 15% of $10.4 would be."

"Is that about $150 million?"

"Alright. You have a better mathematical mind than myself."

"Okay. Now ... So, just so it's clear in my mind. We ... During this Fiscal Year the Governor went out and borrowed a hundred million dollars. Is that correct?"

"Yeah, we're paying interest on that. You know, interest ... "

"Alright. And under ... Yes."

"Check with the banker interest. That costs taxpayers money, that interest does."

"Right. And that's what the Governor did because we didn't have ..."

"Excuse me, Representative Cullerton. Representative Hallock, for what reason do you seek recognition?" 172  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"Well I always find Mr. Cullerton's comments interesting, but I wish he'd confine them to the issue at hand here, and that is this Amendment."

"Proceed, Representative Cullerton. The timer is on, you have only less than 3 minutes left."

"Well, I'm getting a little mad, because you guys get up and give these speeches about the program and the plan, and I'm just asking a question about it and then they hop up and say it's not germane. It's specifically germane to this issue. I just want to know how this works. The statute provides for the ability to borrow money. And so my question to you is, isn't it also possible to do what many people do in their own accounts? They borrow money and at the end of their Fiscal Year, they pay off the interest and they renew the loan. Isn't that something which can be done, statutorily without violating the Constitution?"

"The answer is yes. Are you suggesting that's a good idea?"

"And the problem is ..."

"Are you suggesting that Illinois should borrow more money?"

"I simply ... I simply ..."

"Representative Tate, it is not ... Turn them both off. Representative Cullerton, would you like to speak to the issue? Proceed."

"Yes, I'd like to speak to the issue. Now the second question I had concerns the amount of available money we have at the end of the Fiscal Year. This Fiscal Year, I believe it will be $34 million dollars. And under your plan or program, the ... at the end of next year, how much money will be in the available balance?"

"Representative Tate, to answer the question." 173  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"$200 million. Representative Cullerton, also a detail of that plan, that I think that I'm sure you're aware of, is bonding ratings in this State are affected by available balances, by how much government loans, borrows ..."

"And we have $34 million dollars now, has our bonding been lowered as a result of our being under $200 million?"

"This is the lowest available balance that we've had currently. We haven't asked for additional borrowing power at this level."

"Do you know how much we had two weeks ago? I was told we had an available balance two weeks ago of $254 million. And now we've got ..."

"That's correct."

"And now we've got $34 million. Have we been spending a lot of money in the last two weeks trying to get that balance down, as far as you know?"

"We're trying to pay Bills in this State in a timely fashion."

"Okay, thank you. Thank you for answering my questions."

"I mean an issue that we will debate is the payment cycle of Public Aid. I'm glad you brought that up, because that's important. Because what we had been doing is deficit spending and I ..."

"The Gentleman has concluded his questions. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative McAuliffe."

"I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved the previous question. The question is, Shall the main question be put? All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it. The main question is put. Representative Representative Tate to close." Tate to close. 174  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 68th Legislative Day

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Chamber. This is the plan. We have attempted to cooperate in a bipartisan spirit to reduce spending, in a bipartisan spirit in this State. But, there are currently no discussions on taxes in a bipartisan fashion in this Chamber. There's no discussions about reduced spending. We're ready to stand up and be counted. Now this is an easy one. This Amendment cuts the Board of Higher Education. This Amendment is administration and bureaucracy. I move for its adoption. Roll ..."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #1 be adopted? All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Pedersen."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Clearly, our districts are different. But from what I've heard from my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, taxpayers don't want tax increases. Clearly, they want us to cut the budget and live within our current revenues. As Legislators, through the appropriation process, we've already established our priorities, so a 2% across the board is a most responsible approach. I think it's better for us to make the cuts now, then to have the Governor do it for us later."

"Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative Brunsvold, one minute to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. In explaining my vote, I think this is an easy vote. It's an easy 'no' vote. We're going to cut 2% from grants that go to students and not cut any service ... any money from individuals in the pin stripe army. Now I don't think that's right, and I wouldn't vote for this Amendment if we didn't have this 175  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day situation."

June 25, 1987 "Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 47 voting 'aye', 67 voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. And the Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Hoffman."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Floor Amendment #2 clarifies some language by deleting the term Family Practice Residence Act, and substitutes language to the effect that these are grants for ..."

"Representative Hoffman."

"And medical student scholarships through the Illinois Department of Public Health. And I move for the adoption of Amendment #2."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 283. And on that question, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman."

"I'm advised that this ... by staff that this makes a technical change. I support the Amendment."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it. And the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"There are no further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Hoffman now asks leave for immediate consideration of Senate Bill 283 as amended. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, the Gentleman has leave. Read the Bill on Third, Mr. Clerk." 176  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987

"Senate Bill 283, a Bill for an Act making certain appropriations for Higher Education. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Hoffman."

"I think we've had adequate debate on this legislation. We've had an opportunity to do what needed to be done in terms of the entire budget. I think you all have a good idea what you're going to do on this. And this is your chance to do it."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 283. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 283 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Representative Giorgi, one minute to explain your vote."

"Madam Speaker, I'm having a little trouble discerning color up there. Is that an orange color, red color, or yellow color?"

"I see green and I see yellow."

"The Sponsor's especially. What color is the Sponsor voting?"

"He's voting yellow."

"How does ... What color is that?"

"I think he's yellow. I think he's yellow."

"I can't make it out. What a brave group. I'm so proud of them."

"Representative Matijevich, one minute to explain your vote."

"Well, Ms. Speaker, there's one ... there's one Member of this House remembers some years ago, that that Sponsor voted 'no' on her own Bill and I said to all the Members ... Everybody else was voting 'yes'. But that 177  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 Sponsor wanted to keep her spending down. And I said well, I think all of us ought to vote 'no', because now what we're seeing is more than just a so-called game plan on spending. What we're seeing now is the Republican side of the aisle putting up votes ... or having the Democrats put votes on all spending Bills. So that they can go in the election and all the areas and say 'Look it, our spending is low. Look at the Democrats, their spending is high'. Representative Hoffman had another way of killing this Bill ..."

"Your one minute is up, Sir. Bring your remarks to a close."

"He had another way of killing the Bill. He just didn't have to call it. So, I want to tell you that there's more to this game plan than what they say. They want to ... They think they can beat Democrats by saying that we are voting for spending Bills. We are the ones that are responsible. We are voting to fund government. If you don't want government to run, just don't call the Bills. And shut down government."

"On this question, there are 67 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and 47 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 284, Representative Keane. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 284 has been read a second time previously. Amendment #1 lost in Committee. Floor Amendment #2 is being offered by Representatives Bowman and Tate."

"Representative Bowman."

"Leave to withdraw Amendment #2, please."

"Withdraw #2. Are there any further Amendments?" 178  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Bowman."

"Representative Bowman, on #3."

"Amendment #3 merely makes a technical change in the language of one of the captions."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #3 to Senate Bill 284. Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Keane."

"Yes. Would the Sponsor tell us what the Amendment does?"

"He just said it made a technical change."

"I'd like to know what the technical change is."

"Representative Bowman."

"It clarifies that ... it's customary in Appropriation Bills to say 'a certain amount is appropriated, or so much thereof, as may be necessary'."

"No problem. I will accept the Amendment."

"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #3 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Weaver."

"Representative who?"

"Heaver."

"Representative Weaver."

"Thank you, very much, Madam Speaker. Amendment #4 moves some money around within the budget and changes some terminology, basically, to get it into Conference Committee, so we can play with it some more. I ask for your approval of the Amendment."

"Representative Weaver has moved for the adoption of Amendment #4 to Senate Bill 284. And on that 179  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative

"I have no problems with the Amendment."

"The question is, "Shall Amendment #4 be adopted? All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #5, offered by Representative Tate."

"Representative Tate."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amendment #5 reduces the GRF Appropriation to the Board of Governors 2% from the BHE level of GRF allocation to across the board reductions and all line items. The total GRF reduction is 2.2644028 from the BHE allocation and 5.581128 from the Bill as it was passed out of the Committee. This is part of our attempt to preserve the integrity of the Higher Education overall budget and the Board of Governors. This program will ... if passed, will actually save dollars from what the Governor has indicated he would be forced to cut in yesterday's press conference."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #5 to Senate Bill 284. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Well, let's see how serious the Republicans are about their 2% plan. I support this Amendment. Let's vote for the Amendment."

"The question is, "Shall Amendment #5 be adopted? Representative Keane, for what reason do you rise?"

"I oppose the Amendment. In spite of the Appropriation Chairman, I would like my Bill to go back, in the shape I 180  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 want it to go back to the Senate in. And for that reason, I oppose it. If people are going to change signals, they ought to get the word out to the troops. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from DuPage. Representative McCracken."

"Well, let's see how serious the Democrats are. Why don't we all support Representative Bowman. I'm for this too."

"The Gentleman from ... The Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite."

"Madam Speaker and Members of the House. Here we are with an Amendment that cuts even more deeply than one that was rejected in Committee. Again, I tell you that the budget, as it is in the main Bill, only expends the same level of General Revenue Funding as the agencies got last year. If we support this Amendment, what we are doing, is reducing the amount of General Revenue funding that five institutions throughout the State of Illinois will be entitled to. No one has said that we have less General Revenue money for next year, than we have for the current year. There is no reason why the educational institutions of the State should have to take this cut in their General Revenue Fund, only to have to make it up under tuition or other types of income monies. This Amendment will cut deeply into the budgets for Chicago State University, for Eastern Illinois University, for Governor State University, for Northeastern Illinois University and for Western Illinois University. These are institutions that are helping to educate our students, so that they can be employed and contribute to the economy of the State, and I think we would be very much in error, to tell these institutions and these students, that they will get less of next year's General Revenue than they currently get. And I 181  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day urge your rejection of this Amendment."

"Representative McAuliffe." June 25, 1987

"Madam Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The main question is put. Representative Tate to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. This Amendment has been well debated. If you really care about kids in this State, if you care about the future of this State, if you care about preserving the quality of the programs that we have in this State, then the right thing to do is to take this budget down, so the Governor can't take it down for us. We're actually taking this budget down less than what he told us he was going to take it down yesterday. So, if you care about education, and you care about kids, and you care about the economy in this State, then you should vote "yes"."

"All those in favor vote "aye", all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Representative Shaw, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is a terrible Amendment. And as the previous speaker said, if you care about education, you would vote 'red' on this Amendment. This Amendment is depriving young people of this State an education, an opportunity for their education. If the Governor wants to take it down further, let the Governor take it down further. We should not be in the business of depriving the young people of this State an education. And that's what this Amendment does."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative McCracken, one minute to explain your 182  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day vote." June 25, 1987

"It depends how it turns out, but I'll ask for a verification if it's against us."

"Very good. The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 58 voting 'aye', 53 voting 'no' and 3 voting 'present'. And the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 06, offered by Representative Tate."

"Representative Tate. Withdraw 06. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 07, offered by Representative Bowman."

"Representative Bowman. Representative Bowman."

"Withdraw Amendment #7."

"Withdraw #7. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Are there any further Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Representative Keane, for what reason do you seek recognition?"

"Madam Speaker, I would ask for a Democratic Caucus."

"Representative Keane, would you come to the Podium, please. Please. Representative Braun, for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I was just going to say, I thought Representative Keane had a terrific idea. I thought a Conference would be most appropriate at this time."

"Maybe. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Clerk's office advises me, that all Bills on the Consent Calendar passed. As a consequence, those Bills, having received the 183  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Constitutional Majority, are hereby declared passed. If you are interested in knowing the Roll Calls, you can come to the Clerk's office or to your individual Leader, and I think they have an individual record of the Roll Calls. Representative Tate, for what reason do you rise?"

"Are you preparing to break for Conference, or are we going to ... are we standing at recess or ..."

"No, Sir. No, Sir. We are in Session."

"Are we ready to roll?"

"We are ready to roll."

"We're ready to roll."

"We're ready, now. Representative Leverenz is recognized for a Motion."

"Speaker Madigan in the Chair. The Chair would like to acknowledge the presence of Representative Daniels and his merry band. The Chair recognizes Mr. Keane for a Motion."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move to return the Bill to Second Reading, for purposes of a Motion."

"The Motion is that Senate Bill 284 be placed on the Order of Second Reading. The Chair recognizes Mr. McCracken."

"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Speaker. How many votes does that Motion require?"

"60 votes. You've all heard the Motion. The Motion is that the Bill be placed on the Order of Second Reading. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 67 'ayes', 47 'nos'. The Bill has been placed on the Order of Second Reading. The Chair recognizes Mr. Bowman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I now move to reconsider the vote by which Amendment $5 was adopted. In speaking to the 184  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 Motion, I would just like to say that the reason that I had supported the Amendment, offered by the Republicans, is not because I support the 2% plan, but because that Amendment Incorporated the essentials of the earlier Amendment, which I had offered jointly with Representative Tate, and which I withdrew because I knew of Representative opposition to that particular Amendment. As it turned out, Keane's there is a disagreement between myself and Representative Keane, over exactly what should be done with this budget. My concern was, that the technical Amendments that we adopted, would not be sufficient to force the Bill into a Conference Committee, because Representative Keane might move to recede from the Amendments when the Bill came back to US from the Senate. He has assured me that he will support a Motion to nonrecede, and to permit the Bill to go to Conference Committee, where it may be dealt with properly. And under those circumstances, I now move to reconsider the vote by which the Amendment 25, the offending Amendment, was adopted."

"After all of that, the Gentleman's Motion is to reconsider the vote, by which the Amendment was adopted. This will require a majority of those voting on the question. Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Unfortunately, I guess for Representative Bowman, he explained why he was going to vote and support the Amendment. And what he said was, he was going to call the Republicans bluff. It was no bluff. We want you to vote with us. We want to cut spending. We want you to follow along and get on this 2% plan, because if you don't do it, you won't participate in the final budget. The Governor will do that, and he's not going to care what you want. So, save yourselves now. Get on the plan. Defeat the Motion to reconsider the vote. Return it 185  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 to Third Reading and pass it. We aren't bluffing. We want this to pass."

"Mr. Tate."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This issue was well debated. All of us know the contents of that Amendment. This is an opportunity for all of us to stand up for taxpayers in this State, for the process that we all have an opportunity to participate in. If we are to recede from this Amendment, what we are essentially saying, is okay Governor, if you want to take ... if you want to take the blade and cut $47 million dollars out of Higher Education, that's okay with us. This side of the aisle is here to make a statement about the quality of programs that we provide in Higher Education for this State. For people that aren't capable of going to school and affording larger tuition increases, under our plan, we cut half of what the Governor would like to cut, or would be forced to cut under the no tax plan. This is a plan that we have given a great deal of thought to. This is a plan that addresses the needs of students throughout the State of Illinois, that addresses the needs of programs in our universities systems throughout the State of Illinois. I encourage all of you to give a great deal of consideration. If you recede, you know the alternative."

"Mr. Mays."

"Thank you, very much. Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman making the Motion, please yield?"

"The Sponsor yields."

"This is Mr. Chairman Bowman?"

"Mr. Bowman."

"Yes. Mr. Chairman, do you have a plan or something here, that you want to ..."

"Yes. It was proposed in an earlier Amendment." 186  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"And when was this plan hatched?" June 25, 1987

"Prior to the Committee Hearing. Unfortunately, it was voted down in Committee and I think it needs to simmer a little more."

"So, this plan of yours is going to restore how many million?"

"It's going to cut $3 million, Sir."

"How?"

"If you examine Amendment #3, it cuts approximately $3 million from this agency."

"What did Amendment #5 do?"

"It cut that plus some additional amount."

"So, how much less are we cutting if we do what your plan suggests that we should do?"

"Well, you made the calculation. I think it's about 2%."

"So, this plan that you have, will spend 2% more than what we voted to spend if we uphold the vote that we just had?"

"The position that we have been taking, is that the 2% reductions across the board are a meat axe approach and are not necessary, and, in fact, harmful."

"What is necessary? What is your plan? What goal do you really want to hit with this plan of yours?"

"Well, okay. In the case of Higher Education, the proposal was to take all of the systems to the Board of Higher Education allocation of the Governor's bottom line. So the Governor, your Governor, gave the BHE a bottom line. And then in Committee, we considered Amendments that the Board of Higher Education recommended to us, that would take all of these systems to the Governor's bottom line, your Governor's bottom line. And the Amendment that I favor, is one that will do that and will not require further reductions. It will be perfectly consistent with your Governor's proposal." 187  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"So, you want to spend how much this year? What does your plan call for? I mean, we want to look at the big picture, right, Mr. Chairman?"

"Well, Sir, I think we're debating a particular Amendment and ..."

"I know we've got an Amendment before us, and I'd be glad to limit my remarks if you'd asked me. But, I would like to know what this big picture plan is of yours, that you've just concocted 15 minutes ago."

"Hell I described it in my response to your Leaders remarks on the first Bill."

"Thank you, very much. I would simply rise in opposition to the Gentleman's Motion to reconsider the vote. We have a problem on our hands. We feel we've addressed it. We finally got bipartisan support in addressing that problem. We want to have it all the way through. We want to keep it. We don't want to give it up. Stay with us. Vote "no"."

"The question is, 'Whether the vote by which Amendment #5 was adopted, shall be reconsidered?* Those in favor of the Motion will signify by voting 'aye", those opposed by voting 'no". Have all voted who wish? Those in favor of reconsideration shall vote 'aye", those opposed will vote 'no'. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 67 'aye", 48 "no". The Motion is adopted. The matter has been reconsidered and is again before the Body. The Chair recognizes Mr. Keane."

"I move to table Floor Amendment #5."

"The Gentleman moves to table Amendment #5. On that question, those in favor of the Motion to table the Amendment will signify by voting 'aye", those opposed by voting 'no". The Motion is to table the Amendment. Have 188  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 62 'ayes', 49 'nos". The Motion to table the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Keane, do you wish to call the Bill on Third Reading? The Chair recognizes Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Point of Order. The Gentleman seeks to advance to Second Reading. This Bill was already on Third Reading, and returned to Second Reading and an Amendment was adopted on it today. And I think pursuant to Rule 37(d), he requires 71 votes to do that, if there is an objection, or if leave is denied. And I object."

"The Parliamentarian will respond, Mr. McCracken."

"Your point is not well taken. Although the ruling ... The rules provide that a Bill on the Order of Second Reading, or a Bill on the Order of Third Reading, which is returned to Second, shall not be taken up again if it is amended. In this instance, the Bill was on Third Reading, was returned to the Order of Second Reading to table the Bill. And therefore ... and was not amended at the time it went from Third Reading to Second Reading, and therefore, the point is not well taken."

"The Chair recognizes Mr. Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move for passage of Senate Bill 284."

"The Clerk shall read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 284, a Bill for an Act making appropriations of the Board of Governors State Colleges and Universities. Third Reading of the Bill." 189  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

June 25, 1987 "The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?" Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting "no". Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question. there are 67 'ayes', 1 person voting "no". This Bill, having received a Majority, is hereby declared passed. Chair recognizes Hr. Weaver."

"Thank House. Constitutional Senate Bill 285. The you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate Bill 285 is the Appropriation Bill for the State Universities Retirement System. It came over from the Senate reduced to the FY 88 or FY 87 level, excuse me. And I would be willing to answer any questions if there are any."

"Did you ... Mr. Weaver, did you plan to call this Bill for passage?"

"Yes."

"Alright. The Bill is now on the Order of Second Reading. Are there any Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 01. offered by Representative Tate."

"Mr. Tate."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #1 reduces the GRF appropriation to the State University Retirement System approximately $203,000 2%. All by $1,749,000, or retirement lines are reduced and is transferred from GRF to the Agricultural Premium Fund, to provide Retirement Contribution for employees at the University of Illinois Cooperative Extension Service. I move for its adoption."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #1. Those in favor of the Amendment will signify by voting 'aye", those opposed by voting "no". Have all 190  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 48 'ayes', 63 'nos'. The Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 285, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of certain retirement systems. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Mr. Weaver."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I mentioned before, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is the Appropriation Bill for the State Universities Retirement System. It is now at this level, equal, or very, very closely equal to FY '87 and I would ask for its passage."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 67 'ayes', no one voting 'no'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 286, Mr. Matijevich. Mr. Clerk, is this Bill on the Order of Second Reading?"

"This Bill is on Second Reading and it's been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 31, offered by Representative Matijevich."

"Mr. Matijevich."

"Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #1 is a technical Amendment. It doesn't involve any GRF funds. These are federal funds. It adds $100,000 from $800,000 to $900,000 so that the agency doesn't lose 191  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 federal funds in the Federal Congressional Teacher's Scholarship Program. And I would move the adoption of Amendment #1."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #1. Those in favor of the Amendment say 'aye', those opposed say 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Tate."

"Mr. Tate? Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Tate."

"Mr. Tate."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #3 reduces the GRF appropriation to the State Scholarship Commission by 2%, reducing the MAP Program by $2,859,000, and the Merit Recognition Scholarship Program by $97,000. The total GRF reduction is $2.9 million. I move for its adoption."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of the Amendment. The Chair recognizes Mr. Matijevich."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I oppose this Amendment. What this 2% cut would mean in the Merit Recognition Scholarship Program, at $500 per scholarship, it would mean the $100,000 would impact on 200 students. And this is an entitlement program, by the way, that is presently being publicized already for applications based on what the General Assembly has indicated would be in the program. On the Monetary Award Program, the near $3 million dollar reduction would impact approximately 2,800 students who would lose scholarships. I don't think any of us want to be on record as impacting that type of ... that 192  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 many students so that they cannot receive higher education. I would urgently ask you to oppose the Amendment."

"The question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted? Those in favor signify ... The Chair recognizes Mr. Stephens."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of the Amendment. The fact is, that we have an opportunity for those students, that the previous Gentleman remarked about. They ought to learn about government and the way that it works. They ought to look at this Body and see whether or not we can be responsible. The fact of the matter remains, that we only have SO many dollars in revenue coming in, and if we continue to support these budgets as they've been approved in the Committees and in ... and Bills that have passed out of the Senate, we are going to be in trouble again this year. We have to cut back. This is the reasonable thing to do. We've set our priorities. And now we're backing off on every agency at 2%. I suggest that those students would learn a valuable lesson. This is not ... We still have 98% of the budget left. There's plenty of money there. It's the only thing we can do to keep from raising taxes in the State of Illinois, taxes that those students will have to pay for year after year, after year, after year. After they get their jobs they will continue to college, they'll get their degrees, and then they'll pay forever. I rise in support."

"Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also rise in support. Both sides had attempted to reach agreement on substantial cuts, approximately $200 million dollars worth. And that was yesterday afternoon at about 1:00. Ultimately, all that could be agreed upon was $20 million in cuts. So, yesterday's attempt at a consensus cut in the budget, which 193  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 apparently yesterday you were ready to acknowledge, today you are not ready to acknowledge, because the negotiations broke down. We don't have the luxury of going back to those negotiations thinking that this time we're going to be cutting $200 million on an agreed basis instead of $20 million. You don't have a plan that you believe in, or else you wouldn't have been at the negotiations yesterday, trying to cut $200 million dollars. This is the only game in town. It's the only viable plan. It's 2%. Nobody likes it, but it treats everybody the same. You don't have to worry that someone else is doing better than you are. So let's support the program, it's the only one this General Assembly has."

"Representative Satterthwaite."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. If there are no additional funds to go into our Higher Education Programs this year, it is almost a foregone conclusion that tuitions will be increased more than the 4% that the institutions had planned upon. That will put an increasing demand on the Scholarship Fund. These cuts, in this Amendment, will reduce the budget of the Scholarship Fund, so that at least 3,000 students will not be funded even for the projected increase in tuition. I don't believe that we should be asking the students of the State of Illinois to pick up this additional burden. It is incumbent upon us to see that when tuition is increased, we provide sufficient funds to provide access for those students who cannot afford that education on their own. To do this would be a cruel hoax on the students at a time when they would have increasing demands that they could not meet without this financial assistance. This Amendment should be defeated."

"Mr. McAuliffe."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question." 194  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

June 25, 1987 "The Gentleman moves the previous question. Those in favor signify by saying 'aye, those opposed say 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The previous question is moved. The Chair recognizes Mr. Tate to close. Mr. Tate, did you have any further wisdom to shed on this

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"We're all very anxious."

"We're ready to go. Let's roll it."

"You're recognized to close."

"I've closed. I'm ready." question?"

"Thank you. The question is, *Shall the Amendment be adopted?" Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? The Chair recognizes Mr. Black to explain his vote."

"Thank you, very much. Mr. Speaker. I had hoped to comment in debate, but let me just say I have the greatest respect for Representative Matijevich. He's been a friend of my district for more than 20 years. But I would say to you, as a former Dean of Students at a college, I know first hand, the anguish that these students feel on financial aid. As the father of a college age child, I know what it costs to go to college. But in deference to my colleague on the other side of the aisle, who represents the University of Illinois community SO well, I would submit to you that the cruelest hoax that we do to our children and our college students, is to promise them the sky. year after year, after year, when we know we can't deliver. Nobody here has signed on to a tax increase. No one has filed an Amendment with their name on it. I would submit to you that we have to live within our means, as we expect our children to do. To vote against this Amendment. is not a vote of your conscience or common sense."

"Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take 195  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 the record. On this question, there are 47 'ayes', 67 'nos'. The Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 286, a Bill for an Act making certain appropriations to the Illinois State Scholarship Commission. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Mr. Matijevich."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The Appropriation Bill for the Scholarship Commission was introduced at $340,219,800. It was reduced by a Senate Amendment by $15,258,000 to the Board of Higher Education 1987 funding level. And we just added $100,000 to it in federal funds. And I would ask for your favorable support."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' Mr. Ewing."

"Was the Sponsor closing, Mr. Speaker?"

"No he was not."

"Alright. I wanted to ask a question about the $100,000. I didn't quite get that ... technically what that was for."

"The Sponsor yields. Mr. Matijevich."

"The $100,000, when I said it was technical, if we didn't add that, we would have not availed of ourselves of the $100,000 in federal funds. That's for that Congressional Teacher's Scholarship Program. That's what I meant."

"Fine. Thank you, very much."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. 196  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 On this question, there are 67 'ayes', no one voting 'no'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 287. Mr. Clerk, is the Bill on Second Reading?"

"The Bill is on Second Reading and has been read a second time previously."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Committee Amendment #2."

"Is there a Motion?"

"No Motions filed."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Bowman."

"Mr. Bowman."

"This is similar to an Amendment that I withdrew on the other Bill. And what's fair is one, is fair for the other. I withdraw this."

"Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Bowman."

"Mr. Bowman. Mr. Bowman?"

"Withdraw #4."

"Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #5, offered by Representative Bowman."

"Mr. Bowman."

"Withdraw #5."

"Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #6, offered by Representative Tate." 197  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"Mr. Tate." June 25, 1987

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment 26 reduces the GRF appropriation to the Board of Regents by 2% from the BHE level GRF allocation, through across the board reductions to all lines for the central office, personal services and contractual services. The central office's personal services funding remains the same as the Committee action. Contractual services funding is reduced more than 2% to maintain the overall 2% reduction. This Amendment also eliminates $500,000 in GRF, which was added to the Committee to create the Illinois Institute at Northern Illinois University, as provided by Senate Bill 687. The total GRF reduction is $2.843,000 from the BHE allocation and $6,553,000 from the Bill as it was passed from the Committee. This Amendment is consistent with the House Republican plan. As we have indicated, the alternatives to this, is what the Governor has indicated yesterday in his press conference, which would provide for $47 million dollars in cuts to Higher Education. I move for the adoption of this Amendment."

"Those in favor of the Amendment will signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 48 'ayes', 66 'nos'. The Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #7, offered by Representative Ropp."

"Mr. Ropp."

"Withdraw."

"Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #8, offered by Representative 198  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day Bowman."

"Mr. Bowman, Amendment #8."

"Leave to withdraw." June 25, 1987

"Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 287, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Board of Regents. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Mr. Ropp."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. This is the appropriations for the Board of Regents for their ordinary and contingent expenses, plus one Amendment that was offered in Committee. I welcome your support in the passage of this Bill."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of the Bill. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 65 'ayes', 1 person voting 'no'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 288. Mr. Clerk, is this Bill on the Order of Second Reading?"

"This Bill is on the Order of Second Reading. Amendments #1 and #2 were adopted in Committee."

"Are there any Motions?"

"No Motions filed."

"Are there any Amendments?"

"Amendment #3 lost in Committee. Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Huff."

"Mr. Huff, on Amendment #4."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #4 deals with reducing 199  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 the Chicago Junior College Board by $300,000. I'm going to ... This $300,000, Ladies and Gentlemen, represents the salary of four individuals, the Chief Executive Officer and his staff. I'm going to withdraw this Amendment, but I think it's sufficiently important to explain, for the benefit of my constituents, what the genesis of this Amendment is. These three executive staff members conferred upon themselves, Ladies and Gentlemen, tenure, which is a violation of their union rules, which says that administrative personnel can not have tenure unless they have taught three consecutive years previously. This tenure was conferred on these Gentlemen in contravention of that rule. And in addition to that, they conferred also on themselves, a $20,000 retroactive pay raise and a $7,000 housing allowance, which is $25,000 over what a 35 year teacher with tenure can get. And another interesting thing is, this Chief Executive Officer, otherwise known as a Chancellor, does not have any record of his employment contract in the minutes of the Junior College Board, nor does anybody in the system know what this individual makes. I brought this up in the Committee on Appropriations, and I was assured that I would get a copy of this contract. As I speak to you, I have yet to see this contract. I also found out, that while this individual calls himself the Chancellor, there is no statutory definition for the word Chancellor. That might explain, Ladies and Gentlemen, why I cannot get a copy of this employment contract. Plus, if I take the $300,000 out, there are no line item definitions, so I would be hurting, perhaps other people, than trying to get at the culprits that I want to get at. But I just wanted to say this for the record, that I do not appreciate, as a Representative of the people, being treated as a nuisance. I think that if any of you were 200  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 subject to the attitudes that you would face in your district on the part of these individuals, you would do no less than I have. I just hope that this will be a lesson in budgetary restraints, if not humility. I withdraw the Amendment."

"Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #5, offered by Representative Weaver."

"Mr. Weaver. Mr. Weaver on Amendment #5."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #5 transfers $422,800 from the General Revenue Fund from Advanced Technology Equipment grants to Credit Hour grants. With this transfer, the Advanced Technology grants would be funded 10% below FY '87 levels. The Amendment is an attempt to increase the total for Credit Hour grants which are the predominant form of State support for community colleges. And I ask for its passage."

"The Gentleman moves the adoption of the Amendment. Is there any opposition to the Amendment? Those in favor say 'aye', those opposed ... Mr. Dunn? Mr. Dunn."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in opposition to this Amendment. If you listened carefully, what this Amendment is saying is that we're going to retrench from our long standing position to encourage the advancements in science and technology. This is a transfer from funding for community colleges for advances in Science and Technology into the regular credit hour line, and it's a retrenchment thing which we shouldn't do. And I think everybody who's going to talk out of one side of their mouth and say they want to encourage business and high technology and push for Amendments like this out of the other side of their mouth 201  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 ought to be put on record. And I ask for a Roll Call vote on this Amendment."

"The question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted? Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 45 'ayes', 69 'nos'. The Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 96, offered by Representative Weaver."

"Mr. Weaver."

"Withdraw."

"Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 07, offered by Representative Tate."

"Mr. Tate. A... #7."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #7 eliminates $330,000 of GRF money that was added for the ... by the House Committee for Thornton Community College. It was intended, I think, to be used for one of the Democratic Member Pork Amendments. I would just suggest to you, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Chamber, all of us have demonstrated a great deal of fiscal constraint this year, and this is not the type of year that we've been adding new programs. And I think it's a little bit unreasonable and unfair for individual Members to be adding programs when we have cut to date $807 million dollars out of the budget. And I move for its adoption."

"Mr. Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stand in opposition to the Amendment. The Committee considered this matter and found that the Amendment was worthy. And I would urge that the 202  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Membership oppose this Amendment."

"Mr. Stephens."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Sponsor yields."

"Well, good. Representative Tate, where's this money going to go? If this ... If your Amendment is not adopted, where will this money go?"

"Where will the money go? We're going to eliminate GRF funding. $330,000 we'll save."

"If you pass the Amendment, right?"

"Correct."

"If we don't pass the Amendment, what will be the effect?"

"If we don't pass the money ... the Amendment, we will spend $330,000 out of the General Revenue Fund for one community college in this State."

"Thornton Community College?"

"Thornton Community College."

"What County is that in?"

"Thornton is in what County? Cook County."

"Cook County."

"Cook County."

"Well, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I think you ought to take a close look at this Amendment. What we're talking about, is in a year when we don't have a lot of extra money in General Revenue Funds, the State of Illinois is asked to send an extra $330,000 more to Cook County to help ... Well, it's just pork, that's all there is to it. We have tried and tried, and most of us have been very restrained in trying not to add extra baggage to the budget. We have held back on Amendments, Democrat and Republican add-ons alike, and I think we ought to be consistent. I think that we ought to support the 203  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Gentleman's Amendment, take that $330,000, put it back in General Revenue where it belongs, SO that we can help balance the budget of the State of Illinois."

"Mr. Hallock."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also rise in support of the Amendment. I think there's probably not a Member in this General Assembly, who does not have within his district someplace, or very close by, a community college. And because of that fact, I think each of us would like to be on the recipient end of this kind of grant. But I think most of us have shown some restraint, because we know that the funds aren't there this year, so we haven't put in requests like this. I urge all of you to oppose this grant. and thereby support this Amendment so we can ensure that this $330,000 goes back to the GRF where it belongs, so it can be spent on other worthwhile programs. Vote "yes"."

"Mr. Pedersen."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. It's obvious that the taxpayers of this State would like us to cut ... not increase taxes. Clearly, they want us to cut the budget and cut out all the pork, and live within our current revenues. And I think that it's better for us to do it here, than have the Governor do it for us later. So, I urge support of this very good Amendment."

"The question is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted?' Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 55 'ayes', 59 'nos'. The Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #8, offered by Representative Tate." 204  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"Mr. Tate? Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #9, offered by Representative Tate."

"Mr. Tate."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #9 eliminates the half million dollars out of GRF added in Committee for the development of Family Resource Development Programs for disadvantaged families. This Amendment was offered in Committee. It is number 7 to be adopted. It ... This Amendment goes to the community college in East St. Louis, and it's apparent, Mr. Speaker. that we have cut $807 million dollars out to date, but apparently, some ... certain Members of this Chamber receive special consideration. Now if we're going to operate this budget process, and we're going to cut programs for mentally ill people, we're going to cut programs for Elementary and Secondary Education, and we're going to cut programs for Children and Family Services, and we're going to add pork programs for certain universities and certain Democratic Members in this process, then I think that you guys should be talking about the plan that you're developing. It looks like the plan that's developing is that we give Democratic Members $500,000 per district. This is unfair. This is irresponsible. And this is fiscally unsound. I move for the adoption of this Amendment."

"Mr. Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stand in opposition to this Amendment. The Amendment was considered very carefully in Committee. It passed out of Committee and I would urge that the House concur with the Committee action and vote against this Amendment." 205  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"Mr. Hallock." June 25, 1987

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of the Amendment. And I think it's very important that we all know what's going on here with this Amendment. The State of Illinois funds entirely East St. Louis Community College. And that may or may not be the right thing to do. But as one who comes from a community, whereby we fund a great deal to the extent of our community college, as do most of you, I think it's probably not proper. But on top of that, we now have here offered, and on this Bill, another $500,000 for a new program at the East St. Louis Community College. All this Amendment tries to do, is say to all of you that to be fair, since we already fund that college so lavishly, we shouldn't do this on top of that. This Amendment is a good idea. It puts the money back where it belongs for all us. And I urge you be ... that you support this Amendment."

"Mr. Stephens."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not only do we fully fund the State Community College in East St. Louis, but it's the only Community College in the State of Illinois, that is fully funded by General Revenue sources produced here in Springfield. The people of St. Clair County and East St. Louis do not put one dime into that College, and now we're not ... that's not good enough, we've got to spend a half a million dollars for another new program. Now that's a program that once it's started, we'll just be up here next year and say "Well, we had this program last year, surely we need it. It only needs another $50,000 or maybe $60 next year'. And year after year it will grow. This is the way we get in trouble. We have to say no sometimes. And we just have to stop and look at what the effect of these Amendments, and the effect of these add-ons 206  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 are onto the budget. He have a plan over here. Our Leadership has come up with a plan to keep the State in good fiscal shape. Your plan, Mr. Speaker, seems to be that, "Well, we'll have an add-on here, and an add-on there, and we'll maybe pay off our hundred million loan next year, or the year after. In the meantime we'll pay interest on that'. Your plan seems to be that "Well we're just going to leave this appropriations process in the hands of the Governor'. We know that we're sending him a budget that is burgeoning. It's way over... out of line. It's way over revenues. But, we'll send it to the Governor and let him exercise his appropriations process with his veto pen. Let the Governor of the State of Illinois be the only one who decides what our priorities ought to be. We are reneging on our duties. We should not succumb to the temptation of giving one particular Member a pork project like this, so that they can take it back to their district and say,See what I brought home, to the additional money that no other community in the State of Illinois has, a full funding of a State Community College. This is wrong. We ought to be in favor of this Amendment which will strike ... Thank you."

"Representative Younge."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am opposed to this Amendment because this Amendment would interfere with a program of welfare reform. It would set up a ... the program will set up a Family Resource Development Center at State Community College, so that families that are now on Public Aid, would learn the coping skills necessary to be gainfully, privately employed. It is very important for us to continue the theory that by learning the skills necessary to run their homes, manage their children, and to be gainfully employed, we can move ... help families move from 207  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day Public Welfare based on that reasoning, that you ... We find that those reasons." June 25, 1987 to private gainful employment. And I ask, oppose this Amendment.

And I ask you to defeat this Amendment for Speaker Madigan: "Mr. Hays."

"Thank you, very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is a Member add-on. Now when we had House Bills before us, we all showed a lot of restraint, both in terms of addressing Members add-ons, as well as, addressing them in Committee. I would suggest that that same restraint should be shown at this point. There are a lot of us here that have said 'no' to Member add-ons, and I think that's the kind of posture we should be in, especially if we're not going to go along with the kind of cuts that we have dictated. And everybody would agree would bring us to an agreed level for budgets. So, I would urge everybody to support the Members Amendment, that would take out the pork in this budget."

"Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know. every time we bring up something for a cut, we're told no, no, no, this is too important to cut. No one's brought a tax increase from the other side of the aisle. No one's indicated willingness to support it. It appears that nobody will support it. So when are you going to start saying yes? Your plan is not a plan. Your plan is to walk away and let the Governor do the cutting. Let's say no. Let's have the courage to say no. Now, if you don't like this cut, tell us where we can take it out from, and let's get with it. If you don't have an alternative ... If you don't have an alternative, then go for this Amendment. And let's cut this."

"The question is, 'Shall the Amendment be 208  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 adopted?" Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no". Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. McCracken?"

"For verification, Mr. Speaker."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Daniels?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, we presented some time ago, a 2% plan cut across the board, a responsible program to help finance State government, and at the same time. not create too much burden on the taxpayers of Illinois. Now you have an opportunity to cut out some spending, some height of pork barrel project, in one segment of this State of Illinois, in an effort to save money for Mental Health, for Corrections, for Education all over this State, and for other important projects, and you turn your back on the taxpayers of Illinois. I don't know what it is you need. I don't know what it is you want. But when you do something like this, as irresponsible as you're acting right now, you're sending the taxpayers of Illinois a message, and that message is spend, spend, spend."

"Representative Younge to explain her vote. Representative ... Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 55 'ayes' and 58 'nos'. Mr. McCracken has requested a verification. The Clerk shall read the names of those voting in the Negative."

"Berrios ..."

"Mr. Clerk, before you begin. Would the Members please be in their chairs. Will all unauthorized personnel please leave the Floor. Would the Members rs please be in their chairs. Would all unauthorized personnel please leave the Floor. Representative Laurino, stop talking to 209  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 the page. Representative Braun. Representative Braun wishes to be verified, Mr. McCracken. Thank you. Proceed with the reading of the names of those voting in the Negative."

"Berrios, Braun, Bugielski, Capparelli, Christensen, Cullerton, Currie, Daley, Davis, DeJaegher, DeLeo, Dunn, Farley, Flinn, Flowers, Giglio, Giorgi, Greiman, Hicks, Huff, Jones, Keane, Krska, Kulas, Laurino, LeFlore, Leverenz, Levin, Martinez, Matijevich, McGann, McNamara, McPike, Morrow, Mulcahey, O'Connell, Panayotovich, Phelps, Preston, Rea, Rice, Richmond, Ronan, Saltsman, Satterthwaite, Shaw, Steczo, Stern, Sutker, Terzich, Turner, Van Duyne, White, Williams, Wolf, Anthony Young, Wyvetter Younge, Mr. Speaker."

"Mr. McCracken?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative Giglio."

"Mr. Giglio. Remove Mr. Giglio."

"Mr. ... Representative Farley."

"Mr. Farley? Is Mr. Farley in the Chamber? Remove Mr. Farley."

"Representative Shaw."

"Mr. Shaw? Mr. Shaw. Remove Mr. Shaw."

"Representative Panayotovich."

"Mr. Panayotovich? Mr. Panayotovich. Remove Mr. Panayotovich."

"Who is? Is he off, Mr. Speaker, Representative Panayotovich? Yes, I'm sorry. Okay. Representative Huff."

"Mr. Huff. Mr. Huff. Remove Mr. Huff."

"Representative Levin."

"Mr. Levin is in his Chair. Restore Mr. Shaw. Mr. Shaw is in the rear of the Chamber."

"Representative Hannig." 210  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"Mr. Hannig?"

"Oh, I'm Terzich." June 25, 1987 ... No, no, I'm sorry.

Representative Speaker Madigan: "Mr. Terzich is in his chair."

"Representative Christensen."

"Mr. Christensen is in his chair."

"Representative Mulcahey."

"Mr. Mulcahey is in his chair."

"Nothing further."

"Mr. Mautino wishes to be recorded as 'no'. On this question, there are 55 'ayes' and 55 'nos'. The Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #10, offered by Representative Tate."

"Mr. Tate on Amendment #10."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I'm a little confused. I don't understand why some Democratic Members support Amendments that ship money to Chicago, and they don't support Amendments that ship money to East St. Louis. I think there is some discrimination going on over on that side of the aisle. However, Amendment #10 is the 2% Amendment, and we know the issue. I move for its adoption."

"Those in favor of the Amendment signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 48 'aye', 67 'no'. The Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #11, offered by Representative Tate."

"Mr. Tate? Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?" 211  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill.

"Senate Bill 288, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Illinois Community College Board and the Board of Trustees of State Community College of East St. Louis. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Mr. Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd ask for a favorable Roll Call on the... for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Illinois Community College Board and the Board of Trustees of the State Community College of East St. Louis."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. Mr. Stephens, no."

"Could I be changed to 'no' please?"

"You want it to do what?"

"No."

"I see. Why don't we dump this Roll Call, Mr. Clerk? Mr. Stephens wanted to change his vote, so we'll dump the Roll Call. Let's do it again. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 67 'aye', 4 'no'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. The Chair recognizes Mr. Mautino for a Motion."

"Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker. I'd like leave of the House to extend the deadline on Senate Bill 1249 to November 6."

"Mr. McCracken."

"Would the Sponsor tell us what that Bill is?"

"That addresses the proprietorship in the Vocational 212  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 School Act. The Amendments are not ready. and I don't think they will be over the summer, so we'd like to extend the deadline."

"They won't be ready over the summer, either?"

"Well, it's not going to be done by the time we get done with this Session. I can see that coming, Sir. I'd like to extend it during that period of time."

"It's not an appropriation Bill?"

"No, it's not. The other two Bills I would like to, and I have already filed to put in the... back in the Interim Study Calendar in the Committees of which they came out of, and I want to do with 720 very shortly, as well."

"We are not in favor of that. We can't agree to it. If he's making a Motion to extend, Mr. Speaker, I don't think he can extend the deadline, even with 71 votes, can he?"

"Sixty votes, Mr. McCracken. 60 votes."

"To extend a deadline?"

"Yes."

"Have we ruled on this before? Have we gone through this?"

"It's clearly stated in the rules, Mr. McCracken. Mr. Mautino moves that the Third Reading deadline for Senate Bill 1249 be extended to November 6. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 67 'aye', 46 'no'. The Motion is adopted. Senate Bill 290. Mr. Clerk, is the Bill on the Order of Second Reading?"

"The Bill is on... has been read a Second Time previously. Amendments #2 and #3 were adopted in Committee." 213  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

"Are there any Motions?"

"No Motions filed."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Amendment 4 was withdrawn. Floor Amendment #5, offered by Representative Tate."

"Mr. Tate. Mr. Tate."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #5 is the 2% Amendment. I move for its adoption."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of the 2% Amendment. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting "no". Have all voted who wish on the 2% Amendment. Mr. Bowman, to explain nothing."

"Just to say that I have a conflict of interest on this. I will vote 'present'."

"Mr. Tate."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, we've gone now for an hour and a half. It's apparent that you have no taxes in the plan. There's no budget cuts in the plan. Where's the strong Speaker that we elected to represent us. I mean, this kind of reminds us of the old Bill Redman show. Where's the real Leadership in this process? I mean, we have no plan. We're trying to address the budgetary issues. We're going through this process. We just want an alternative. We're ready to listen. We're ready to work with you. We're ready to cooperate. Where's the plan, Mr. Speaker. We're ready to sit here and work and address the issues of this Session and get out of here."

"Mr. Matijevich."

"Mr. Speaker, I only rise...I've kept my mouth shut during all this debate and I'm not even going to mention the issue on the taxes, but I resent anybody demeaning Bill Redman. Well, I'm sorry about that. Al Greiman, when he was in the Chair, he cited the rule that we should not use 214  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 personalities in the debate, and I know our Speaker feels strongly about that, and I think in the manner and you used the term Bill... the name Bill Redman, it was not the way that any of us would use that name. Bill Redman was a... has been a very responsible person. He was fair to everybody here. Everybody on both sides of the aisle acknowledged the fairness of Bill Redman. And for anybody in anyway to say Bill Redman was entered... anything but that, doesn't know what they're talking about."

"Have all voted on this question? The Clerk shall take the record. There are 49 'ayes', 64 'nos'. The Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 290, a Bill for an Act making certain appropriations to the Board of Trustees of the University of Illinois. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Satterthwaite."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. This is the budget for the University of Illinois and I move for its adoption."

"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 66 ayes, no one voting 'no'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 291. Mr. Clerk, is this Bill on the Order of Second Reading?"

"This Bill has been read a Second Time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative 215  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day Goforth."

"Mr. Goforth."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment. I think it's agreed to on aisles. June 25, 1987 This is just a technical both sides of the

"Mr. Richmond."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I urge the adoption of this Amendment."

"Those in favor of the Amendment say 'aye', those opposed say 'no'. The ayes have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Tate."

"Mr. Tate."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a 2% Amendment and I move for its adoption."

"The question is, 'Shall the 2% Amendment be adopted?' Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 51 'ayes', 63 'nos'. The Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 291, a Bill for an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expense of Southern Illinois University. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Mr. Richmond."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is the Budget Bill for the Southern Illinois University System. I move for the passage of House... or Senate Bill 291." 216  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987

"Those in favor of the passage of the Bill signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting "no". Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 67 'aye', no one voting 'no'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 292. Mr. Clerk, is the Bill on Second Reading?"

"The Bill has been read a Second Time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Tate."

"Mr. Tate."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a 2% Amendment and I move for its adoption."

"Those in favor of the 2% Amendment signify by voting 'aye", those opposed by voting 'no". Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 48 'ayes', 67 'nos'. The Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 292, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expense of the State Universities Civil Service System. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Mr. Bowman."

"Thank you. This is the ordinary and contingent expenses of the State Universities Civil Service System. I move for its passage."

"Those in favor of the passage of the Bill signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting "no". 217  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 64 'ayes', 3 'nos". This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 315. Mr. Clerk, is this Bill on Second Reading?"

"The Bill has been read a Second Time previously. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Mays."

"Mr. Mays."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. This is the 2% Amendment. I move its adoption."

"Those in favor of the 2% Amendment signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 110 'ayes', 4 people voting 'no'. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 315, a Bill for an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Bureau of the Budget and the Executive Office of the Governor. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Mr. Mays."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I seek your support on this Amendment... on this Bill."

"Those in favor of the passage of the Bill signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 108 voting 'aye', 6 voting 'no'." 218  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 316. Mr. Clerk, are there any Motions?"

"This Bill has been read a Second Time previously. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Are there any Motions?"

"No Motions filed."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Mays."

"I'd like to withdraw. Mr. Speaker. I would like to withdraw that Amendment."

"Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Mays."

"Mr. Mays."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. This Amendment both transfers money within the budget and it also reflects the 2% cut for a total of $7,600.00 in reduction. I would move its adoption."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of the Amendment. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 61 'ayes', 50 voting 'no'. This Bill... This Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 316, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expense of the Civil Service Commission. Third Reading of the Bill." 219  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"Those in favor of the passage of the Bill signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 105 voting 'aye', 8 people voting 'no'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 317. Mr. Clerk, were there any Committee Amendments?"

"This Bill has been read a Second Time previously. Amendments $1, #2, #3, #4, #5, 06, and 38 were adopted in Committee."

"Are there any Motions?"

"No Hotions filed."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 09, offered by Representative Rea."

"Mr. Rea withdraws the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #10, offered by Representative Mays and Stephens."

"Mr. Mays. Mr. Clerk, correct the Board. Mr. Mays."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Floor Amendment would delete... Floor Amendment #10 would delete 200,000 that has been added for dredging in Rockford Park District. What can you say? It's a Member add-on. We should be saving 200,000 GRF wherever we can. I'd move its adoption."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of the Amendment. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 69 'ayes', 40 'nos'. The Amendment is 220  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment 211, offered by Representative Mays and Stephens."

"Mr. Mays."

"Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker. This would delete the effectiveness of Amendment 04 that was adopted in Committee. It would reduce Capitol Development Funds by $610,000.00 for Sheffield Ranch. I move its adoption."

"Mr. Leverenz."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Sponsor yields."

"Yes, I would."

"Is this General Revenue Funds?"

"No. These are Capitol Development Funds."

"Why do you want to eliminate this?"

"Well, when we had the Capitol Development Board budget over here, I think we pretty much kept all Member Amendments off of that. I just felt that for consistency sake, we ought to do this. Even though it's not the Capitol Development Board budget before us, it's Conservation. these are the same types of funds that would be used in that case. I felt for consistency sake, we should do this."

"This is not General Revenue. I would encourage a 'no' vote."

"The question is on the Amendment. Those in favor of the Amendment signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 52 'ayes', 62 'nos'. The Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #12, offered by Representative 221  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 Mays and Stephens."

"Mr. Mays."

"I believe this is technically incorrect. I will withdraw it."

"Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #13, offered by Representative Rea."

"Mr. Rea. Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #14, offered by Representative Rea."

"Mr. Rea. Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #15, offered by Representative Leverenz."

"Mr. Leverenz."

"Thank you. It makes technical changes requested by the Department and I would ask the Amendment be adopted with your 'aye vote."

"Those in favor of the Amendment... Mr. Mays. Mr. Mays."

"Hould the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"The Sponsor yields."

"My analysis indicates that this would appropriate $610,000.00 for Sheffield Ranch. Is this more than technical, or what is it?"

"No. It's correct. It addresses that particular thing, and makes the changes in the sectioning of the Bill as requested by the Department, so I would just ask for your 'aye" vote."

"Thank you."

"Those in favor of the Amendment signify by 222  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 saying 'aye', those opposed say 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #16, offered by Representative Mays."

"Mr. Mays."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Amendment would delete about $541,000.00 for the Expanded Sites Program in the Department of Conservation. When we were looking at a 2% across the board figure for the Department of Conservation, the figure totaled roughly $700,000.00... $750,000.00. I felt that the best way to go about this is to look at the programs that have been expanded in the current budget and this is one of those programs and the following Amendment will address another one of those programs and the two Amendments combined should roughly equivalate the 2% total. So I would move for the adoption of this Amendment."

"Mr. Mays, thank you. Mr. Leverenz. Mr. Leverenz, on Amendment #16."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Sponsor yields."

"The Senate deleted the new sites, is that correct?"

"What the Senate did, I believe, was add this money for new sites only. This is new dollars, from what I understand, that was added... that was kept in the budget with Senate action in new sites. What we did in Committee was then transfer this new money from new sites to expanded activities at existing sites, I believe. And so this Amendment would take those dollars out completely."

"Right. So that we didn't want to go into any new sites."

"Right." 223  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day

June 25, 1987 "We simply wanted to fund the sites that we have now, and that is what we did in Committee, and what you are trying to do is to kill that action. Is that correct?"

"What I am trying to do is keep the funding for existing sites at existing levels. Keep the expansion of funding for existing sites out. And I think that is what this

Amendment does. Leverenz: "To the Members. I would encourage your 'no' vote on this Amendment."

"Mr. Hannig."

"Will the Sponsor please yield?"

"The Sponsor yields."

"Jeff, could you tell us where these sites are that you are trying to eliminate."

"I don't have that with me at this time. I can get you a copy of... I know that won't help, but I cannot at this time."

"I mean, I think that some of the Members would like to know what we're voting on before we cast a vote on... on eliminating... "

"Right. This is at existing sites. This is not a new site thing. This is not... this will take new money for existing sites out. I wish I could answer your question, Representative."

"Mr. Mays moves for the adoption of the Amendment. Those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 55 'ayes', 59 'nos'. The Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #17, offered by Representative Mays."

"Mr. Mays." 224  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker. This Amendment is the second part of the 2% Amendment in specific areas in the Department of Conservation budget. It shifts roughly $250,000.00 from the Law Enforcement Division, Parks and Conservation Fund to the Division of Land Management, to replace $250,000.00 in GRF. It would put off the hiring of roughly eight new Conservation Officers. It is a new '88 initiative."

"Mr. Leverenz."

"Inquiry of the Chair. With the adopt... not adopting 16, 17 is incorrect, and perhaps the Gentleman should withdraw it."

"Would... Would the Gentleman care to tell me how it is incorrect?"

"Let me saw that again real slow."

"No. Just tell me where it's incorrect. That's all I want to know."

"Page 2, line 1, by deleting $3,551,100.00."

"And... "

"Because we didn't adopt 16, it does... "

"Okay. I would withdraw if it's technically incorrect."

"Thank you."

"The Amendment is withdrawn. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 317, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Conservation. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Mr. Mays moves for the passage... Mr. Mays."

"Mr. Speaker. What I'd like t do is keep the Bill on... return the Bill to Second so we can draft that Amendment 225  68th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE June 25, 1987 correctly, if possible."

"You wish to hold the Bill?"

"Yes."

"You wish to hold the Bill?"

"Yes. I do."

"Okay. The Bill shall be held. Senate Bill 318. Mr. Clerk, were there any Committee Amendments?"

"Amendment #1. This Bill has been read a Second Time previously. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Is there a Motion?"

"No Motions filed."

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Amendment #2 lost in Committee. Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Mays."

"Mr. Mays."

"I would like to withdraw Amendment #3."

"Withdraw the Amendment. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Mays."

"Mr. Mays."

"Yes. This is the 2% Amendment for the Emergency Services and Disaster Agency Budget. I would like to move its adoption."

"Those in favor of the Amendment signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 55 'ayes', 59 'nos'. Mr. McCracken."

"Verification, Mr. Speaker."

"The Gentleman requests a verification. The Clerk shall read the names of those voting in the Negative." 226  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987

"Berrios, Bowman, Braun, Breslin, Brunsvold, Bugielski, Christensen, Cullerton, Currie, Daley, Davis, DeJaegher, DeLeo, Dunn, Farley, Flinn, Flowers, Giglio, Giorgi, Greiman, Hannig, Hicks, Homer, Jones, Keane, Krska, Kulas, Laurino, LeFlore, Leverenz, Levin, Hartinez, Matijevich, Mautino, McGann, McNamara. McPike, Morrow, Mulcahey, O'Connell, Panayotovich, Phelps, Preston, Rea, Rice, Richmond, Ronan, Saltsman. Shaw, Steczo, Stern, Turner, Van Duyne, White, Williams, Holf, Anthony Young, Wyvetter Younge, Mr. Speaker."

"Mr. McCracken. Mr. McCracken."

"Representative Hicks?"

"Ar. Hicks is in the aisle."

"Representative Giglio?"

"Mr. Giglio. Remove Mr. Giglio." acken: "Representative Farley?"

"Mr. Farley is in the aisle."

"Representative Ronan?"

"Mr. Ronan. Mr. Ronan. Remove Mr. Ronan."

"Representative Daley?"

"Mr. Daley is in the rear of the chamber. Restore Mr. Ronan." acken: "Representative Currie?" McCracken:

"Representative Currie is in her chair."

"Representative Leverenz?"

"Mr. Leverenz is in the rear of the chamber."

"Nothing further."

"On this question there are 55 'ayes', 58 'nos'. The Amendment fails. Are there any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill for a Third Time."

"Senate Bill 318, a Bill for an Act making 227  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 68th Legislative Day June 25, 1987 appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the State Emergency Services and Disaster Agency. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Mr. Mays."

"Thank you very much. This is above the level that we feel should be requisite. I will call the Bill. I urge a 'present' vote."

"Those in favor of the passage of the Bill signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question there are 62 'ayes', 4 'nos'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Ladies and Gentlemen, it is the desire of the Chair that we proceed with the Appropriation Bills and finish all of the Appropriation Bills this evening. We would like to do that before 9:00, and then you can go to dinner. So I would encourage everyone to hold the debate to a minimum without curtailing anyone's right to participate in the debate, so that's the desire and the plan of the Chair, and with that in mind, Senate Bill 319. Mr. Clerk, were there any Committee Amendments?"

"This Bill has been read a Second Time previously. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."