Illinois House Floor Debate — May 20, 1994

May 20, 1994 "The hour of 10:00 having arrived, the House will come to order. The Chaplain for today is Reverend Elmo Rodgers of the First United Pentecostal Church in Danville, Illinois. Reverend Rodgers is the guest of Representative Black. All guests in the gallery may wish to rise for the invocation."

"Our Lord as we come before You this morning we're so thankful and so grateful for the country that we live in. We're thankful this morning, Lord, for government because we know that government has been ordained by You. Father we're asking of You this morning that You would grant these people the wisdom and the knowledge that's needed to carry out this government. Lord help them to make the right decisions, to make the right votes, help them Lord, give them the wisdom, and the knowledge that they need to know what their people need and what their people want, and to vote, and to work on behalf of their people that they represent. Lord we're asking that Your blessings would be upon this, this gathering here this morning, and we'll thank You for it all in Jesus Name. Amen."

"Representative Black, to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance."

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Representative Kubik, are there any excused absences on the Republican side?"

"Yes. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Let the record reflect that Representatives Cowlishaw, Hassert and Tom Johnson are 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day excused today."

"The record will SO reflect. Jeff Schoenberg, Democratic side?" May 20, 1994 Representative are there any excused absences on the

"Yes, Madam Speaker. Representative Kaszak and Representative Harold Murphy are not with us today, they are excused."

"The record will so reflect. With 113 answering the roll call, a quorum is available, is present. from the Senate."

Messages Clerk McLennand: "Message from the Senate from Jim Harry, Secretary of the Senate. 'Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has concurred with the House of Representatives and the passage of House Bills 61 together with Senate Amendment #1 and ask the House concur. I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has concurred with the House of Representatives and the passage of House Bill 232 together with Senate Amendment #1 and Senate Amendment #2 to House Bill 232 and the adoption of which I am instructed to ask concurrence of the House. Directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has concurred with the House of Representatives in the passage of House Bill 504 together with Senate Amendments #1 and 2 to House Bill 504 and the adoption of which I am instructed to ask the concurrence of the House. Instructed, directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has concurred with the House of Representatives and the passage of House Bill 1705 together with Senate Amendment #1, Senate Amendment #2, Senate Amendment #3, Senate Amendment #4, Senate Amendment #5, Senate Amendment #6, Senate Amendment #7, Senate Amendment #8 to House Bill 1705 and the adoption 2  135th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1994 of which I am instructed to ask concurrence of the House. Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has concurred with the House of Representatives and the passage of House Bill 1786 together with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1786 and the adoption of which I am instructed to ask concurrence of the House. These Bills passed the Senate as amended on May 19, 1994.

"First Reading of House Bills, Mr. Clerk."

"Introduction - First Reading of Bills. House Bill 4248, offered by Representative Black, a Bill for an Act to create the Economic Development Income Tax Credit Board. First Reading of this House Bill."

"The House will resume its business in five minutes. Representative Black."

"Yes, thank you very much, Madam Speaker. My light was about to burn out. About 40 minutes ago I think the Chair announced that we would resume business in five minutes. That deadline having come and gone, what is our approximate time table now?"

"We should be getting started in about five more minutes."

"At this point, at this point, Madam Speaker. I do have an inquiry of the Chair. If...it has come to my attention, by venue of the morning newspapers, that there was a second fire alarm in the Capitol yesterday at approximately, I'm not sure, approximately 7 p.m. and that this fire was discovered in the legislative printing unit, a rather large waste basket, I believe and I find that today many of the Republican Amendments are missing. Would there be any connection with that second fire and the fact that I can't find many of the Republican Amendments today, Madam 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day Speaker?"

"Aa ha.

"I would rather not answer that." Taking the Fifth Amendment I see." "Use your imagination." May 20, 1994

"Well, I've heard that those printing presses running a little hot but I think things are out of control completely. The Amendment in front of me somewhat charred, but at the appropriate time we would like to introduce it."

"Thank you."

"Well thank you."

"Representative Novak."

"Yes, Madam Speaker. To the previous speaker, I was just informed about those missing Republican Amendments. They're going to be mixed in with crumb rubber to be used on the highway road projects."

"Representative Walsh."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today is the day that I am surrounded by birthday boys, on my right, Jack Kubik is celebrating his last birthday as a single man, his 39th birthday and on my left, Representative Saviano is celebrating his 36th birthday. So I'd like to ask everybody to join in wishing both of them a Happy Birthday."

"Mr. Clerk, House Bill 3289, Representative Blagojevich."

"House Bill 3289 has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments. Floor Amendment #1, offered by Speaker Madigan."

"Mr. Clerk, would you please take this Bill out of the record? Representative Brunsvold on House Bill 2528, Representative Brunsvold. Out of the record. Representative Wennlund, for what reason do you rise?" 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day

May 20, 1994 "Thank you, Madam Speaker. Inquiry of the Chair. Is there a committee in session currently at this point in time? Is there a committee that's been convened?"

"No there..."

"It's not a committee?"

"The committee is in recess." "The committee is in recess? Is that official? But if the committee that did meet this morning, regarding Medicaid?"

"It recessed."

"My understanding is that...whatever that was, committee or whatever, is currently meeting at this point and time. Hearing testimony?"

"It is my understanding that the committee is in recess."

"It's not a committee?"

"The committee...again my understanding is that the committee is in recess." Wennlund: what time? road show "It...well... if the committee is in recess is there they call a markup session going on at this point in Or is this just...is this just like Captain Billy's that Speakers convene to hear some Medicaid Is that what's going on? I didn't hear you." comments on it. What's the testimony?

"I have no question?" as we

"The question is, there appears to be some ad hoc group, committee, or road show hearing testimony speak and how are we to conduct any business here in the first place. But I guess the bottom line is, that today marks the official deadline in the Senate to hear House Bills on Third Reading. So I guess, as I asked for it yesterday, in addition to the first fire alarm that we had, 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 the second fire alarm around 6:00 p.m. last night really spelled out the need for an evacuation plan. And we need two types of evacuation plans, one, to deal with the emergency like a fire, but the second one to deal with emergency in the House Floor. We need to evacuate this House because there is no business that can be conducted. So what are we doing here?"

"Excuse me. Representative Lang for what reason Lang: do you rise?" "Thank you, Madam Speaker. Two items in response to the previous speaker. Firstly the committee has adjourned, there's a working meeting going on similar to the kind of working meeting that goes on in this Capitol all the time to negotiate a Bill, I don't see what the problem is with that. And the second comment I would make is one I have made before, if there are those on this House Floor that believe they're wasting their time they ought to just pack up and go home."

"On the Order of Second Reading, Government Administration, Representative Dart, on House Bill 3935. Out of the record. House Bill 3040, Representative Edley. Out of the record. House Bill 3840, Representative Judy Erwin. Out of the record. House Bill 3317, Representative Frias. Out of the record. Representative Hartke on 2800. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 2800 has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments. Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Stephens."

"Representative Stephens on Floor Amendment #1."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. House Amendment 1 allows that a truck tractor may draw two unladen agricultural, commercial, or utility, or livestock trailers. If...I 6  135th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1994 would withdraw Amendment #1."

"The Gentleman withdraws Amendment #1. Are there any further Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Stephens."

"Representative Stephens."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amendment #2..."

"Excuse me, Representative Stephens. Representative...proceed Representative Stephens."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amendment #2 amends the Bill to allow that a agricultural, commercial, or utility, or livestock trailer may be towed by an operator that is regularly...by an operator that is regularly engaged in the business of selling those types of trailers, or that the operator...and that the operator is transporting those trailers in the course of his regular business and that the combination of the vehicles do not exceed 65 feet. I move its adoption."

"The Gentleman move for adoption of Amendment #2 Dart: to House Bill 2800. Representative Dart on the question." "Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He says...indicates that he will."

"Representative, is the Department of Corrections... Department of Transportation, have they taken a position on this Amendment?"

"I'm not aware that they have."

"Is this...how is this different from Amendment #1?"

"Well if you're in that business there aren't that many people that sell these trailers. We are talking about livestock, and commercial trailers, and the Amendment allows just for the transport from the manufacturing facility, which often times is out of state, to their sales 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 facility, for commercial use only, and then from there they are just...they would be distributed for sale."

"And how was... Is this vastly different from Amendment #1 that you withdrew?"

"I think there was just a technical difference in the Amendment."

"Just technical difference. Was the Department of Transportation on board with Amendment #1, do you know?"

"I'm sorry."

"Was the Department of Transportation were they in favor of Amendment #1?"

"I don't know that they were in favor of it."

"How many people would this affect, do you know? Or does this affect this specific area?"

"I'm not aware, Representative. I don't know that it is a significant number throughout the state as far as the number of dealers. And if you told me there were 20 or 50, somewhere in that range, it might be less."

"And this language, this Amendment...Amendment 1, which was similar, has been sitting around for two or three weeks, I guess. And Department of Transportation has taken no position at all on this?"

"Staff advises me and that they've not and I'm not aware that anyone has spoken for or against the Amendment."

"They don't see that there would be any problems with these type of vehicles on the roads at all?"

"Representative, again they've not told me whether they are opposed, I think they're neutral but I don't know that they have made their position known."

"And state police they as well, they have not said anything about these being hazards on the road or anything?"

"That's correct." 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day

"No further questions." May 20, 1994

"The... Representative Hartke on the Amendment."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. I have mixed emotions on this Amendment as it's being presented. As a farmer, I know that many individuals in agriculture buy livestock trailers and so forth. Many of those are manufactured in Missouri or Tennessee and then transported by the trailer dealers into the State of Illinois. What this Amendment is asking is that they be double...double hitched to allow a triple conglomeration of vehicles down our state highways. The Department of Transportation is somewhat opposed to this because of the length of the vehicle and the hitch makeup, as they are opposed to several years ago when it was suggested that a pickup truck with an RV fifth wheel camper and then trailing a boat behind it, was requested to be allowed on state roads. This is the same type of configuration that'll be traveling down our highways. Now as a farmer, I think it could reduce the cost of that trailer by the dealers to the farmer, because this will mean an extra trip if he has to go to pick up two trailers, he's making two trips as opposed to getting the two trailers in one trip. As a farmer I would like to see this pass, but as Chairman of the Transportation Committee I can see where this will lead to...to some other problems, of the length and the trailing of the safety of that vehicle down our interstates and so forth. I just want Members to be aware of that on this piece of legislation. I admire the Sponsor trying to do what he's doing for agriculture but I think we've got to take a look at what that may mean down the road."

"Representative Black on the Amendment."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker and Ladies and 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 Gentlemen of the House. I think the Chairman of the Transportation Committee probably expressed the ambivance that many of us have. But I think you need to look at this Amendment very carefully. It clearly states that the combination shall not exceed 65 feet. Now that is the legal limit for semi tractors on Illinois highways at the present time. Now we allow a trailer tandem, what many of us call a double trailer combination, already on Illinois highways, I'm sure many of you have seen them driving to and from Springfield, where a freight trailer is hitched to the trailer on the front of the tractor and that doesn't seem to cause any trouble. But furthermore, this Amendment clearly states that these two livestock trailers will be unloaded, they must be unloaded, and what they're after is for a manufacturer to be able to transport these trailers, perhaps to a dealer, or to a farmer, or agricultural producer that has purchased the trailers. And it's very narrow in scope, it's very limited in scope, it does not put the overall length of this combination in any greater length then is already allowed on Illinois highways. I think it is a reasonable Amendment that would help those manufacturer of...manufacturers of agricultural implements to deliver them. I see nothing wrong with the Amendment, Madam Speaker. I don't really think it's as controversial as many people would like us to believe. And pursuant to Rule 55 (c) I am joined by four of my colleagues in asking for a Roll Call Vote on Amendment #2 to House Bill 2800. And I would urge a favorable vote."

"Representative Stephens."

"Well, thank you, just to close briefly. This is a pro-agriculture, pro-economic development, pro-common sense Amendment and I urge its adoption." 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day

May 20, 1994 "Representative Skinner. Representative Skinner on the Amendment." "The problem with this Amendment is that it's going to allow double, double bottoms on two lane highways and I, unfortunately, still have two lane highways in my district. They all should be four lane but they're still two lane. And I'm afraid that this is going to imped commuters trying to get to and from work. And for that reason I respectfully ask a those who are in the suburban area to cast a 'no' vote."

"Gentleman moves for the adoption  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 Amendment #1 to House Bill 4070. On that Representative Hicks."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would stand in opposition to Amendment #1. Amendment #1 actually deletes all the original language passed through committee...passed through committee, I think without a dissenting vote. We're simply trying to set some specifications for the designated license plates, this simply cuts the Bill and I would stand in opposition to Amendment #1."

"Representative Black to close on the Amendment."

"Well, yes, thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I...it was not my intent to strip the Gentleman's Bill. I didn't catch that, I do apologize for that. But, you know, we're less than 12 hours removed from having two fires in the Capitol, right here in Springfield, our...this Capitol, more than a hundred years old. And I think to tell those dedicated firefighters who sped to the Capitol twice yesterday, in the nick of time, to put out a fire down in the Rathskeller, God forbid that that Rathskeller would have gone up in smoke, what would we have done for food? Then...then horror of all horrors the legislative printing unit caught on fire last evening, and again thanks to the dedicated effort of the Springfield Fire Department that fire was extinguished. Can any of you imagine the absolute trauma if the legislative printing unit had burned up yesterday? Good heavens, why we could of...we would of probably had to send most of the Democrat staff home today. Who are probably down there now using that equipment, running off sheet after sheet of Amendments that the State of Illinois certainly can't live much longer without. So, twice, twice in the last 12 hours our firefighters sped to 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 our rescue here at the Capitol, and all this Amendment does is want to honor those firefighters by giving them a special license plate. If they achieve the designation of Firefighter II, a very good honor. And I won't...you know I just don't understand why my good friend and colleague would not want this firefighter plate on the Bill. I tell you if we vote this down and God forbid we have a fire today, they may not show up. So I just stand...I just stand in total support of our firefighters."

"Representative Hicks."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think the Gentleman has such a compelling argument there that I have to change my mind. Representative Black, I think your argument is SO compelling, I have to accept your Amendment and I would ask everyone to vote in favor of your Amendment."

"The Gentleman move for adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill 4070. All those in favor say 'aye'; opposed, 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Any further Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk." "House Bill 4070, a Bill for an Act in to special license plates. relation Third Reading of this Bill."

"Representative Hicks."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Along with Amendment #1 of Representative Black this Bill simply creates designated license plates for a number of different groups. This would basically set forth a pattern by which instead of having a number of different designs we would have one basic design, and we would be able to attach, to that, a type of plastic covering that would show specifically what those different groups are so 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 it would actually be a cost saving to the state. I'd be happy to answer any questions, I ask for its passage."

"The Gentleman move for the passage of House Bill 4070 as Amendment. On that Representative Rutherford."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates that he will."

"Thank you. Representative, will there be any additional cost to the Secretary of State's office in administering this program?"

"In reality, Representative, I think this could in the long run, be a very cost saving measure for the State of Illinois and for the Secretary of State. This basically would say that they could take all of the different groups of specialized license plates that we have in this state, we could combine all those together now, we could attach to this a...actually a plastic overlay that would put in a very specific area could be designated then for the different groups, the civic groups, the fraternal groups and the wonderful firefighters for the Amendment we just placed on it."

"Outside of the...outside of the Amendment we just adopted which specifically notes, are the specific organizations, fraternal organizations noted in the legislation, Representative?"

"Representative, would you ask that again? I couldn't hear you, I'm sorry."

"Are the specific fraternal organizations or civic groups noted in the legislation so we know exactly what we are talking about here?"

"No, Representative, I tried not to do that. Who came to me actually were the Rotary Clubs of Illinois came to me 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 wanted to have a Rotary plate, and I thought rather than trying to again have a specific plate for just the Rotary and when the Optomist came to me, and when the Kiwanis came to me, I thought if we could do it one time for everybody, and stop all of these specialized plates that we have, that we all bring to the legislature every year because somebody came to us. I thought this was a much better way of doing it and we might be...maybe be able to take care of everybody with one fell swoop."

"And just one other quick question. Then who will finally decide the tag? And so, will that come through the Secretary of State's Office, or a screening process, or committee or..."

"Absolutely, it will go right through the Secretary of State's office. Those different organizations could apply to the Secretary of State for the way their logo would actually appear on that license plate. It would have to be approved through the Secretary of State. We wouldn't want to take that authority away from him in any way. And then once that approval is done, with an agreement with that specific organization, then their membership could apply for it."

"Great. Thank you very much, Representative."

"Representative Brady."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes, he will."

"Larry I... if I understand this right we're going to pass one law that will allow any group to apply to the Secretary of State for license of plates. And the Secretary of State will have approval of those groups? I guess my concern on it, have you limited in this language some way in which certain groups could be denied, legally?" 15  135th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1994

"Is...does my language, does my language limit groups? No, I think that really goes up to the discretion of the Secretary of State on deciding who the civic groups are, the fraternal groups are, who could possibly be not-for-profit type of groups that would apply for that. It would be up to them to say whether or not they are legally optionate, within this, to be able to be accepted."

"And here and maybe...let me more specific Larry and I, in all seriousness, what happens if we make a law that says you can apply and the courts interrupt that you cannot be denied. And then a group like the Branch Dividends comes in and says we want our own plate, or the Klu Klux Klan, would this law allow the Secretary of State to deny them plates? That would be my big concern."

"Well in the legislation we talked about fraternal community and civic organizations, now if the...under that definition the Secretary of State would determine that the Branch Dividends, or the KKK is a civic organization possibly, or a community organization then I guess it's up to him to say yes or no. In my book they would not be considered as a good community organization, and I think I would probably want to deny their application based upon the fact they are not a good community organization."

"And I guess that's my question, do you think this language gives the Secretary of State that right?"

"In my opinion and if we wanted to go back in years to come, I think that that would me my interpretation of what I am attempting to put forward so there would not be any divisiveness down the road."

"So for the purpose of legislation intent you're intent is that we will grant the authority to the Secretary of State to deny freely, and so to speak, discriminate amongst which 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day groups?" May 20, 1994

"Well I wouldn't want to use the word discriminate, but I would think that for those purposes we would certainly want him to use his best judgment in saying that community organizations, those civic organizations in the community, would be the ones that we would want to see eligible for this type of plate."

"Representative Lawfer."

"Thank you, Madam Chairman. Will the Speaker yield for a question?"

"He indicates that he will."

"Representative, I have a Bill that calls for a special EMT plates, I think that Bill is in Rules Committee and hasn't moved out. But on the other hand, that Bill may not be necessary if this Bill would pass. Is that correct?"

"Absolutely, Representative. I think we could do away with a lot of the different types of legislation that we've seen yearly, your EMT plate for example, they could certainly qualify. I would hope to be able to have a special designation placed upon a special license plate, and we would want that left up to the Secretary of State to make that decision. I think we would want any good organization in the State of Illinois who wants to have a specialized license plate to be eligible for this. And I think your legislation then would really be incorporated within this."

"In other words then if this legislation is passed, either the EMT organization or part of that organization could apply for these plates to be issued and then if that was approved then they would do that, is that correct?"

"That would be correct."

"Thank you very much." 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day

"The Gentleman move May 20, 1994 for the passage of House Bill 4070. All those in favor of voting for House Bill 4070 as amended vote 'aye'; opposed vote 'no'. The voting is now open. Have all voted? Have all voted? Mr. Clerk, take the record. 104 voting 'aye'. This Bill, having received the required...Representative Ackerman would like to be recorded as voting 'aye'. Representative Coy Pugh would like to be recorded as voting 'aye'. 106...with 106 voting 'aye'. This Bill having received the required Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Homer on House Bill 2817. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 20..."

"Mr. Clerk. Out of the record. Representative Lou Jones on House Bill 4090 this is Government Administration, Third Reading. Out of the record. On the Order of Government Administration, Second Reading, we have Representative Lang, House Bill 3540. Out of the record. On the same order we have House Bill 2807, Representative Lopez. Out of the record. Representative Ben Martinez on House Bill 3297. Ben Martinez. Out of the record. Mr. Clerk, can we go back to Representative Ben Martinez, House Bill 3297, Government Administration, Second Reading?"

"House Bill 3297 has been read a second time previously. Floor Amendment #1 was withdrawn. Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Daniels."

"Representative Daniels on Floor Amendment #2. Withdraw. Are there any further Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

Hoeft."

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative "Representative Hoeft on Floor Amendment #3. Withdraw." 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 3297, a Bill for an Act that amends the School Code, Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Ben Martinez."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. First of all I'd like to thank the other side of the aisle for withdrawing the Amendments. House Bill 3297 requires public schools, K-12 to include a unit of instruction studying the events of Hispanic-American History. The cost to State Government is minimal since each school board determines the amount of time devoted to the instruction. The school board would be able to absorb the cost of such additional instruction. There already exists a unit of instruction studying the events of the Nazi atrosities of 1933 to 1945, and also, a unit of instruction studying the events of Black history, and the events of the history of women. This unit of study would bring pride to hispanics students to be able to learn of their heritage. It is of utmost importance to the...our young people in my district, in particular. I ask your favorable support."

"The Gentleman move for the passage of House Bill 3297, on that Representative Black."

"Yes, thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I... Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in very reluctant opposition to this, there's probably no more sincere Sponsor who would carry this Bill on the House than Representative Martinez. However, trying to put personal emotions aside, it is an unfunded curricula mandate. The Gentleman is absolutely correct, we have done this for any number of groups who want their particular contributions to 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 the American culture and history incorporated into the history curricula. I think at sometime we need to just stop and think about, are we going to teach American History or are we just going to just teach individual units based on the contribution..."

"Excuse me, Representative Black. Excuse me. Representative Martinez."

"Madam Speaker, I'd like to take this Bill out of the record, temporarily."

"Mr. Clerk, would you please take this Bill out of the record? Representative Black."

"Yes, thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I would like to request a Republican conference immediately. It would last probably 45 minutes."

"Representative Stephens."

"Well if the Republicans are going to have a conference I need to make an announcement. Many of you were invited to a tennis tournament by the Southern Illinois Industrial Association which is to be held this coming Monday. Former Representative Bob Walters has asked me to advise you that that tournament has been cancelled. And for those of you who have already sent your money in, he is...he sends you his gratitude."

"Representative Black requests a Republican conference for 45 minutes. The House will reconvene at 12:30 p.m. Representative Ostenburg, for what reason do you rise? Representative..."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Before the Republicans leave for the caucus, I would like to introduce in the gallery members of the Class A Championship Football team from Marion Catholic High School, Chicago Heights and their coach, Dave Latell, on 20  135th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1994 the end there."

"On the Order of Third Reading we have House Bill 4090, Representative Lou Jones on House Bill 4090. Out of the record. On House...on the Order of Government Administration, Second Reading, we have Representative Lang on House Bill 3540. Representative Lang. Out of the record. House Bill 2807, Representative Lopez. Representative Morrow on House Bill 3950. Representative Charles Morrow. Representative Moseley on House Bill 2805. Representative Moseley. Representative Ostenburg, House Bill 3320. Representative Ostenburg. Order of Third Reading, Government Administration. Out of the record, Representative Phelps, (House Bill) 3213. Order of Second Reading, Government Administration. Out of the record. Representative Coy Pugh. Representative Coy Pugh on Government Administration, (House Bill) 3386. Representative Coy Pugh. Out of the record. Representative Woolard, (House Bill) 2795. Representative Woolard. The Order of Third Reading. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 2795, a Bill for an Act amending the Illinois Wildlife Code. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"Representative Woolard."

"I'd like to have the Bill brought back to Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment."

"The Gentleman would like to have the Bill brought back to Second Reading for the purpose of an Amendment. All those in favor say 'aye'; opposed, 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it. The Bill is back on Second Reading. Are there any Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"No Committee Amendments. Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Balanoff." 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day

"Representative Balanoff, on House Bill 2795." Balanoff: May 20, 1994 Amendment #1 to "Let's go. Ladies and Gentlemen, on Amendment #1. Many people across this country are concerned about a growth hormone which increases the amount of milk that is produced by cows. It is called Bovine Growth Hormone. They're very concerned because there are doctors that have said that this could cause cancer. As a matter of fact, there was a professor from the occupational health and safety at the University of Illinois and many others. The State of Maine, the State of Vermont, and indeed the dairy state, Wisconsin, have passed legislation now that would require labeling of milk products that are made (not from cement mix) that...contains milk that was commingled from cows that were treated with this bovine growth hormone. And I'd certainly ask for a Roll Call Vote and urge the adoption of this Amendment."

"On the question, Representative Hartke. On the Amendment."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes, he will."

"Representative Balanoff, if you have a cow that produces milk that is not injected with this hormone and one that is and you took the two milks and put it in separate viles, could you tell which one if you took a chemical test on which cow was injected with the hormone and which one was not?"

"My understanding is that currently there is no test."

"Excuse me?"

"My understanding is there's currently no test to be able to test if there is more of the BGH in it or if there 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day is not."

"I think you're incorrect on that."

"Okay, I might be."

"I don't think there is any test out today that could tell the difference whether a sample of milk was produced from a cow that had the hormone and one was not. Therefore, what I think you're trying to do is trying to create something here that has been proven to be safe. It is not harmful to anyone. I think what you're going to do is cause a flurry of consternation and expense in the general public, and you're causing a scare that is not there. Do you have any idea what this hormone is used for in dairy production?"

"My understanding is it increases the amount of milk that is produced by a cow."

"That is correct. It does. Do you have any idea what the cost of this is?"

"The cost of the hormone?"

"Yes."

"I'm not sure...I'm not sure what the cost of it is."

"What is the ultimate goal of that dairy farmer who uses this growth hormone?"

"Well, I would imagine that it is to increase the amount of milk produced and therefore increase the farmers...or the dairy farmers profits."

"Yes, it is. He is in hope of increasing more pounds per milk per cow. Any cow that produces more milk will also bring more revenue in for that agricultural producer. Now I'm not a dairyman, but I do know that what you're trying to do is putting a scare out there. This is going to cost consumers more money..."

"I would absolutely disagree with the idea of putting a 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day scare out there." May 20, 1994

"...not to protect the consumer at all. I think this is an anti-consumer Bill. It's not a health issue, and I would urge my colleagues to defeat this Amendment."

"Representative Wennlund, on the Amendment."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. First, I have a point of order. The original Bill was an Amendment to the Wildlife Code. Amendment #1 is an Amendment to the Grade A Pasturized Milk and Milk Products Act. I certainly don't think that's germane, and I would request a ruling of the Chair on that before I proceed."

"We'll check. Representative Wennlund, your point is well-taken. The Amendment is non-germane."

"Madam Speaker, thank you very much."

"Mr. Clerk, are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Monique Davis."

"Representative Davis. Representative Monique Davis, on the Amendment. Representative Dart."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker..."

"Excuse me, Representative Dart. Representative Woolard, for what reason..."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think that due to the fact that the Representative is not present that... We would like to check the germaneness on this one, as well."

"Your point is well-taken, Sir. The Amendment is non-germane. Mr. Clerk, are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Davis."

"Representative Granberg, on Amendment #3."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. The same issue arises on 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day Amendment #3."

"Your point is well-taken, Sir. is non-germane. Are there any further May 20, 1994 That Amendment Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"No further Amendments."

"Representative Woolard, on the Bill. Third Reading."

"Madam Speaker, I'd like it moved back to Third and held in that position, if I may, please."

"Mr. Clerk, read the Bill... Excuse me, Mr. Clerk. Representative Wennlund, rise?" for what reason do you

"Madam Speaker, the rules provide that when a Bill was moved from Third back to Second for the purposes of an Amendment it cannot be considered on Third Reading on that same legislative day and I ask the Chair..."

"Representative Wennlund, the Amendments were not adopted; so, therefore, we can move it onto Third and proceed."

"Fine."

"Thank you. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 2795, a Bill for an Act amending the Wildlife Code.

Woolard: Third Reading of this House Bill." "Representative Woolard, on the Bill." "Madam Speaker, I'd like to just take the Bill out of the record at this time. Thank you."

"Out of the record, Mr. Clerk. Representative Coy Pugh, on House Bill 3731, Government Administration, Second Reading. House Bill 3731. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 3731. The Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments." 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day

"Are there any Floor Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Cross."

"Out of the record. Withdraw Amendment #1. Are there any further Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Dart."

"Representative Dart."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amendment #2 is the police protection enhancement Amendment. I move for its adoption."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 3731. On that, Representative Black, on the Amendment. Representative Erwin. Representative Judy Erwin."

"Thank you, Speaker. I rise on a point of personal privilege. I would like the House of Representatives to join me in welcoming the eighth grade class from the Katherine Cook School on Chicago's north side. Thank you for being here today."

"Representative Black, on the Amendment. The Gentleman moved for the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 3731. All those in favor say 'aye'; opposed, 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Biggert."

"Representative Biggert, on Amendment #3. Withdraw Amendment #3."

"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Biggert."

"Representative Biggert, on Amendment #4. 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 Withdraw  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 they're overlooked. And this Bill is designed to bring some attention to the plight of the homeless, and to bring some kind of attention to the fact that homeless people are people too and they deserve the same rights, and privileges that every human being deserves."

"But my question is is that one thing about the law that...that has to be clear to everyone in this state is the law must be plain and simple and easy to understand. How is a person supposed to know when Joe Sitzback walking down the street is homeless? How do we know that?"

"If he doesn't have an address, if his address..."

"Oh wait a minute, I get it. Before you commit the crime, you got to go ask them, 'Hey, wait a minute, where do you live? You live in a home?' And then he commits the crime, and then he'd know, but if he didn't ask them or ask for his drivers license before he's going to commit a crime against this individual, how would he know?"

"I don't think...I don't think criminals...I don't think people that...that are...that commit crimes against homeless people are really that concerned about asking someone for an identification...a piece of identification before they shoot them with a bow and arrow fire to him while he's sleeping on a park bench." or...or set

"Well, let me...you know, if it's a situation as is contained in the Criminal Code where if a person commits a hate crime when by reason of actual or perceived race (we can tell that most of the time; color, creed you can't tell religion), how do we tell or how does anyone tell when a person is homeless without a label? Is there a perception of a homeless person? I mean, actual or perceived, so is there a perception of homeless people?"

"I think when an individual is asleep...found sleeping on a 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 park bench, I think when an individual is found sleeping in Chicago under lower Wacker Drive on a crate, I think when an individual is...is found going to a shelter on a regular basis, that he could be easily qualified as a homeless person."

"Does this Bill only apply to sleeping homeless people?"

"No, Sir, it does not."

"It applies to all homeless people?"

"It applies to all individuals that are homeless, yes Sir."

"The Bill, as I read it, just says 'homeless person status'. Certainly, we know the other categories, but I'm serious about this. One of the things about the law in this state and in other states is that people, you know, are presumed to know the law; and if they're going to be presumed to know the law, how does a person determine if someone is homeless even if they're...when they're not sleeping, for instance?"

"Well, there are certain identifying factors to individuals who are homeless. For the most part, they're usually carrying shopping bags or...or not very clean. There's just certain characteristics, Representative, that goes with being homeless."

"What are those characteristics? Are they set out in the Bill, these characteristics so that people will know that if a person who has these characteristics would be classified as a homeless person? I mean, I don't see anything in here about shopping bags or even sleeping."

"Well, once...once the crime is committed, then it's left to the courts to decide whether or not the individual that committed the crime was aware that the individual was homeless. If there was...if there was no intent, or there 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 was no knowledge that the individual was homeless, then there wouldn't be a crime."

"Well, hundreds of crimes are committed every day in this state and my question is, 'With all these crimes being committed, what...is there more crimes against the homeless than there are against other individuals that they should have this extra protected status of a hate crime?'"

"There are certain crimes being committed against the homeless that are not currently on the books. This law is designed to identify those particular crimes."

"All right, thank you very much. To the Bill, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Now, I can understand a lot of the categories that are contained in this..in this original legislation that amount to what we call 'hate crimes'. And maybe I...maybe I've been living under a rock, but I really haven't run into anybody who hates the homeless. This I mean, how could you hate the homeless? That's like hating apple pie and motherhood. This is...this is ridiculous. Bill by adding yet another category to the hate crimes and maybe we ought to add ratites in here, too, and make hating ratites a hate crime. This is ridiculous. This increasing the status of these hate crimes, you know, before you know it we're going have Members of the House in there, and if we stay in Session any longer, I'll tell you what, Members of the General Assembly are going to be included in here by all your constituents back home. Now let's get our evacuation plan and get the hell out of here."

"Representative Ryder. Representative Ryder."

"Thank you. Would the Sponsor yield, please?"

"Yes, he will."

"Representative, are you aware of any other categories of hate crimes that have been considered or passed by the 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1994 135th Legislative Day General Assembly?"

"I can't say that I am."

"So, you are making a single exception for homeless people. Is that right?"

"No, Sir. I'm assuming..."

"You are what, Sir?"

"There are currently on the books, and I stand corrected, currently on the books a person commits a hate crime when by reason of actual, or perceived race, color or creed, religion, ancestry, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, national origin that a homeless person status, or another individual group. So, currently there...there are statutes on the books, but acts against homeless people are not included in those." that because

"Representative, I appreciate the edification on that particular issue. So now you are suggesting of an address, because of where a person..." "Because of lack of an address." Pugh:

"Very good. Because of the lack of an address, a person then has a...a accelerated penalty for an assault. Is that right?"

"No, Sir. The...and I don't know what you mean by accelerated, but the...the law would basically call for an individual to conduct some community service in the amount of 100 hours."

"Is that an enhanced penalty? Is that over and above the penalty that one receives for assault?"

"No, Sir. I would assume and...I would assume that it's less than for assault."

"You're asking for a penalty for an assault of a homeless person to be less than an assault of another...another person? Is that what you're telling me?" 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994

"Well, the...the crime of assault... I'm not familiar with the law as it relates to the actual sentence for the crime of assault, so I can't...I can't say whether or not they should or shouldn't receive less or more time for committing the same crime on a homeless person. I'm merely stating that...I'm merely stating that a crime against a homeless person should be identified just like a crime against any other individual."

"Representative, I would simply ask the staffer that...the young man that's right there next to you knows a lot about criminal law, and I'm sure that if you were to ask him, the staff (there he is, he's looking at me), if you were to ask your staff person there, I'm certain that he would be able to tell you that all persons in the State of Illinois are covered by the current laws concerning assault, and other crimes against people, and that in order for the hate crimes that you described it is...it is based upon not address or lack there of, but based upon hatred, or upon prejudice that is readily identifiable. You mentioned race, you mentioned sexual preference; there are other areas here, none of which, none of which deal with the way that a person chooses to, where they choose to live or not to live. If that were the case, then I would suggest you, Sir, that you are opening up the hate crimes Bill for crimes against downstaters. When we would go to your fair city as a downstater and I'm assaulted, because people don't like downstaters, that we could be included under the hate crime Bill or vice versa when folks from the city come downstate if they are mistreated in some fashion. The problem, Sir, with...with the Amendment or the Bill that you are offering is that there is no way until after the fact to determine that the person injured falls into this 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 category. As a result, they...the enhanced penalty that you are describing sets apart these people, the homeless people (or at least as you described them), the end result is that it's after the fact. There's no proof that you can indicate... How am I to know?"

"Well, the proof, I mean you're getting into an evidentiary matter, and that's something for the courts to decide. That's for the courts to decide."

"No, Sir. It's for us to decide. We make the laws. We make the laws, not the courts. The courts interpret those laws. If your Bill doesn't have specificity, then you're simply opening the door for courts to make whatever decision they wish. That is why we spend the time and effort. You can ask your staffer, he's right there, he's been in court before, you can ask your staffer, the courts are there to enforce the laws. I don't want to give a prosecutor the ability to suggest that a downstater in Chicago can be, because of an address or a lack of address, can be a subject of a hate crime. I don't want to take advantage of you city folks if you come down to Pekin to be taken advantage of, or Canton, or other places of that regard. What you're doing, Sir, is setting up a Bill that is impossible to enforce. You're setting up a Bill that is impossible for any court to enforce."

"Well, if you want to deal with possibilities, getting the Bill passed by the Senate is...is probably impossible, also. The status of, and you alluded to the fact of identification of a homeless individual, and a homeless individual is identified based on their economic status. And I'm sure that an individual from Pekin or from any of the downstate communities are, for the most part, not economically disadvantaged and they're going to have...and 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 they're going to have identification on their person which shows that they have a residence. What we're merely attempting to do, and I don't know if you're aware of the fact that in Chicago some homeless individuals were used for target practice by people with bow and arrows, people..."

"I am agast at that, and I would suggest..."

"You should be, and you should be..."

"...that the people that committed that crime should be prosecuted."

"...when you're talking about...when you're talking about the enhancement of penalties, when you can consider...when you can consider enhancing penalties for 13, 14, 15-year-old children who are out there because they don't have a proper education to know right from wrong, but we're talking about enhancing a penalty for some of the grossest atrocities afflicted upon people, and we have a problem passing legislation to protect the rights of those individuals. I submit to you, Sir, that we as Representatives are responsible for protecting the rights of not only a preferred class, but for every individual within the State of Illinois."

"And I agree with that, Representative, and that's why I believe that those youngsters should be prosecuted under the laws. I would submit to you, Sir, that under the current law those youngsters are going to be prosecuted under the Juvenile Act and this Bill will not apply to them at all. So the very circumstance that you wish to correct would not be even touched by the Bill that you suggest. Now, you said something interesting here and when you suggested that the Bill, or excuse me, that the people who were being injured or being used for target practice were 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 there because of economic status. Nowhere in your Bill does it state anything about economic status, Sir."

"We were talking...you raised a question relative to the identification of a homeless individual, how was one identified, and I stated to you that the homeless individual was identified based on economic status."

"That's not what your Bill says. Your Bill talks about an address or lack there of or frequenting shelters. That does not indicate to me economic status. If that's the case, then you should put in there that homeless people are those that are under the poverty level of income or maybe you should be placing in there that homeless people are in a different category. I also submit to you, Sir, that Chicago does not have a monopoly on those folks that are in poverty, nor does it have a monopoly on those folks that are homeless. So I would suggest to you that your Bill needs a definition that works. I may quibble over whether we should be doing a status crime such as you've described, but the problem with your Bill is that the definition doesn't even accomplish that fact. Those youngsters that attempted target practice on a homeless person did a despicable act, but I don't believe that because it was a homeless person that it's any more despicable than if those youngsters had used you for target practice or your staffer there for target practice. I don't believe that that act is any worse because those youngsters did that. I believe that that act is despicable in and of itself; it doesn't need enhanced penalties. What it needs is the prosecution of the State of Illinois. What it needs, I submit, is for you to join us to reduce the age of accountability so that these youngsters could be prosecuted under adult laws and not under the Juvenile Act. To the Bill, if I can, 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day Speaker. May 20, 1994 While I don't question the Sponsor's motivations at all, but to try to make a law from one act, from one incident, which in this case was bows and arrows and target practice, makes bad law. In addition, it's bad law because the definition is SO vague and inadequate that it could...that it could encompass someone that's moving from Canton to Springfield; someone that's moving from Chicago to Peoria; they are without an address, they are without a home. Under this Act, they are therefore homeless people and if those people were in some way assaulted or harmed, then an enhanced penalty could be applied even in a case where it doesn't exist. In other areas of race or religion, the attacks are obvious. And as a result, there's no question that they're motivated by hate. In this situation, it's simply motivated by...it could be motivated by immaturity of young people or simply an assault on any people. The Bill itself is vague. It makes bad law. I have supported one of the Amendments on many other occasions, and will support that Amendment on other occasions, but the underlying Bill here is so bad that I will not be able to vote in favor of the Bill, and I would urge other colleagues to do the same."

"Representative Homer, on the Bill."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm perplexed as to the debate. If Representative Pugh were a target in a district that the Republicans hoped to capture, I would assume that they were just giving him a hard time on his Bill. But to oppose this Bill for the reasons that have been given makes no sense. One of the elements of the crime that he would create with his Amendment, the prosecutor would have to show beyond a reasonable doubt that the...that the defendant had...that the defendant was motivated by the 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 fact that the victim was homeless. So that if the evidence was such that there was no evidence of that at the time the crime was committed, then it wouldn't be a hate crime. It would simply be the assault or the battery. Now we have already created hate crimes for many other categories. We've done that because the status of the people who fit within those categories are such that they have been persecuted in society and discriminated against or because they are vulnerable because of their age, whether they be infirmed because of old age or youthful. We have provided special protections. And you know what, we've also provided special protections for, and enhanced penalties, when someone strikes or assaults a police officer, or a fireman, or a public aid caseworker, or the whole laundry list of people that we've added to that list. I'm not...we may have added Legislators. You know, every year somebody comes up with a Bill to protect judges or someone else, and we probably put Legislators in there. I can't remember. But now the Gentleman wants to protect homeless people, and if someone is motivated by their attack by virtue of the status of that person being homeless, then they ought to receive the enhanced penalty, if Representative Ryder is correct and that's not pervasive, then there won't be many prosecutions under this case. But the fact is, that if the prosecutor can prove beyond a reasonable doubt, as he'll be required to do under this Bill, that the attack was motivated by the status of that person being homeless, then by gosh they ought to be treated under a hate crime statute, and we ought to vote for the Gentleman's Bill."

"Representative Black, on the question. Representative Tim Johnson, on the question." Johnson, Tim: "There's two fundamental problems that I have with 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 this, Representative. And I would think one of them you share, and that is that by changing the categorization of a crime to enhance status we're simply doing what we've done for the last 15 years and that is to make a mumble-jumble of the Illinois Criminal Code. We did this with aggravated battery and aggravated assault. We did it with a variety of other areas that simply enhance penalties, put people in prison for longer periods of time on a willy-nilly basis when what we ought to be doing is re-examining the Criminal Code to see that the penalties really meet the offenses. Representative Pugh has been one of those people who's been a strong voice for opposition to those efforts to try to create either enhanced penalties or at least to create extra categories of individuals who can be prosecuted, a Class IV felony, a Class II felony, on the second offense for areas of special categorization. That alone is a reason to oppose this Bill. But the additional reason that I don't think anybody's alluded to yet is, it'd be a good idea to read the Bill. On page 2 in line 17 through 20 of the Bill, they define homeless person status. And a homeless person in status, according to the Bill means that the person has a 'non-traditional residence, including but not limited to various other things', which means that the definition of this Bill is that the homeless person, Class II felony, Class IV felony, according to the time it's committed has a non-traditional residence. Does that mean that it's somebody who is staying at the Day Care Inn for four nights while they passed through town? Does it mean someone that's not paying rent and living with a relative? Does it mean someone who's living in a dormitory at a university which is at least in some categorization non-traditional (although I certainly wouldn't agree with 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 that). This is so vague, it just simply doesn't make sense. The same person can be walking across the park from point a to point b and be attacked and they have treated as one offense, and the same person can be walking from point a to point b but happen to have it be there some portion of where they 'live' and have it be an enhanced penalty. I agree with you that the example that you gave is a serious one that ought to be addressed as such. But as Representative Ryder said, what we ought to do is prosecute the laws that we have, deal with the statutes that we have, make them make consistent sense within each other rather than making a mumble-jumble of the statutes with special categorization. Now if you somehow could really define 'homelessness' and if you overcame the problem that there ought to be this statute at all, then you could make an argument that this Bill made some sense. But there is no way that this Bill would ever withstand the constitutional scrutiny. This Bill is absolutely void for being vague on its face, non-traditional residence is not definable. You and I both know it's not definable, and all we're doing is passing another statute to create more penalties, more time in penitentiaries for situations, and give prosecutors the ability to abuse the law as they don't often do, but they occasionally do in the areas of aggravated battery, and other areas that you and I both agree don't make sense. So really this really kind of surprises me cause Representative Pugh and I have been among the few people who've opposed the...the non-incessent effort to try to enhance penalties in areas that really don't make sense. And this really, with all due respect Representative Pugh, works contrary to the direction that I think you and I have taken and others have taken in trying to make the Criminal 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 Code make sense within each other. And, respectfully, and with all due respect to you, and I think you're well intended in this Bill, it just doesn't make sense and it shouldn't pass and it shouldn't be the law, and the Bill should be defeated."

"Representative Giles."

"Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I move the previous question. There's been long debate on this Bill, and I think that we should move the question."

"The previous question... On the question, Representative Black."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I...I guess I don't have any objection to you running the previous question at this time, but let me tell you my intent, I don't want there to be any confusion, I intend to ask for a Verification of the Affirmative Roll Call on the underlying Bill if and when it gets an affirmative number of votes."

"The question is, 'Shall the previous question be put?' All those in favor say 'aye'; opposed, 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it. The previous question is put... Representative Coy Pugh, on House Bill 3731."

"I'd like to take the Bill out of the record."

"Out of the record. Representative Ostenburg on House Bill 3320. Third Reading. Out of the record. Representative Saltsman on House Bill 3591, Second Reading. Out of the record. Representative Turner on House Bill 3174. The Order of Second Reading. Representative Turner. Out of the record. Representative Meyer, for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you, Madam Chairman, I just had an inquiry of the Chair. I just noticed that none of my Democratic colleagues wanted to call onto their Bills, and I was just 40  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 wondering if nobody wants to call a Bill, if maybe we could adjourn and go home for the weekend."

"Representative Meyer, we will take that under serious advisement."

"Thank you."

"On the Order of State Operations, Special Order of Call, Representative Blagojevich, on House Bill 2542. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 2542, the Bill has been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments. Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Cross."

"Representative Cross on Floor Amendment #1."

"I want to withdraw that at this time."

"Withdraw Amendment #1. Are there any further Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Dart."

"Representative Dart on Floor Amendment #2. Withdraw Amendment #2. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative Blagojevich."

"Representative Blagojevich on Floor Amendment #3. Withdraw. Are there any further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Andrea Moore."

"Representative Andrea Moore. Withdraw, Amendment #4. Are there any further?"

"Floor Amendment #5, offered by Representative Andrea Moore."

"Representative Andrea Moore, Floor Amendment #5." Moore, A.: "Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 House. This Amendment you have heard before, it is one that relates to the gap in the law that for domestic violence cases where there's an order of protection that has been issued. There is a seizure provision, we have had full debate on this, it more appropriately really is amended onto this Bill, and I'm pleased to see this Bill called today, and I would ask your support and answer any questions."

"The Lady moves for the adoption of Amendment #5, to House Bill 2542. All those in favor, say 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"

"Floor Amendment #6, offered by Representative Blagojevich."

"Representative Blagojevich on Floor Amendment #6."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Floor Amendment #6 is the essential Bill, and it says the following: 'If somebody is convicted of an Act of domestic battery, or a violation of an order of protection, two misdemeanors, that person who is convicted of those two misdemeanor offenses would lose their firearm and would lose the opportunity to have an FOID card'."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #6. All those in favor say 'aye'; opposed... On the question, Representative Black, of the Amendment."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Before we vote, I have an inquiry of the Chair. Does Amendment #6 become the Bill?"

"Yes, it does."

"That's what I thought. Has Amendment #6 been printed and distributed?" 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994

"Yes, it has."

"I probably thought you'd say that too, okay."

"Representative, Representative Tim Johnson."

"I request a roll call, and also verify, if the affirmatives outweigh the negatives."

"Representative Skinner."

"Which gun? Would you ask the Sponsor to tell us which gun is going to be seized?"

"Representative Blagojevich."

"Any gun, Representative, that a person convicted, any gun that, a person owns that, any person convicted of these two misdemeanor offenses would lose the right to own any gun in the same manner as any person who is convicted of a felony, can no longer own a gun."

"Wait a minute, we're moving from felony down to misdemeanor? We're moving down, we're requiring somebody to be a felon before we take their guns away?"

"We are, we are saying that felons, because of the policy reasons, are prohibited from having guns and we're saying that in these two isolated instances regarding domestic violence that public policy, and the safety of women, in particular, require that we take guns out of that environment as well."

"Are you going to send the police in to search the house, and the garage, and any storage units the person may rent?"

"With regard to how they execute the enforcement of that, I would correctly leave to local law enforcements to figure out how they would do that."

"Well, I'm not a lawyer, but don't you have to have a search warrant for stuff like that?"

"Probable cause would, would ... upon conviction of 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 the crime. So, if for an example that person is convicted of that offense, the same as a mis, as a felony, law enforcement would execute the same procedures."

"But, it's not a felony, it's a misdemeanor?"

"That's correct, and that's what we're trying to change. We're trying to extend that to these two misdemeanor offenses."

"Well, I, I guess I'd like a yes or no answer. Will there have to be a search warrant before a house is ransacked?"

"Representative Skinner, did you ask me a question?"

"Yes, ask your staff, the one you were talking to while I was asking the question. He can tell you."

"What was your question, I didn't hear it?"

"My question is. Would there have to be a search warrant, yes or no?"

"Here's how it works. The same with a felony..."

"That's more than yes, or no."

"The answer is you would need, you would check the FOID card records and if guns are owned in that home, that would give you the opportunity to go in and search the premises."

"Would you need a search warrant signed by, whoever signs search warrants."

"The first, the first prong of that would be that the person would be required to voluntarily turn in his guns. If, in fact, he did not do that, then the law enforcement would have to go before a judge, obtain a search warrant, go into the home, and confiscate those guns."

"So, the answer is if it were not, if the guns were not voluntarily turned in, a search warrant would be required." 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day

"That's my understanding, yes."

"Thank you."

"Representative Brunsvold." May 20, 1994

"Thank you. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"Yes, he will."

"Rod, what offenses again are you referring to here, that are felonies, correct?"

"Present law, Representative Brunsvold, says that anybody convicted of a felony loses the right to bear a firearm, own a firearm, and a FOID card. We're extending it to two misdemeanors that are domestic violence that have a domestic violence connection. Domestic battery, a conviction of domestic battery, and a conviction of a violation of an order of protection. Stalking is a felony I believe and that's so covered by the law."

"So, you're adding two misdemeanors to..."

"That's correct."

"So, in, in a domestic squabble, you're going to have a situation, that as all of us know from our constituent work in our districts, one spouse can say about anything against another spouse, correct? Rod, and really make half truths and innuendos about that spouse that would be a misdemeanor possibly?"

"Theoretically I suppose they would be charged with a misdemeanor, but these are criminal cases Representative Brunsvold, and the right to bear arms continues all the way up until a point where there is a conviction in a criminal court, with a criminal proceeding where proof beyond a reasonable doubt of those domestic violence offenses is actually established. So, barring proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that squabble situation that you're talking about would preserve the right of the gun owner to 45  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day keep his gun." May 20, 1994

"Well, why don't you include knives and things like that. I mean, we're, you know we're talking about problems in violence in domestic squabbles and many, many times guns aren't used."

"Yes, you're right, however..."

"Baseball bats, and, and golf clubs, and rolling pins and frying pans, and they're all, all used in domestic violence. Why are we picking on guns here?"

"Because most of the fatalities in domestic violence situations occur with the use of a firearm. Last year in the United States Representative Brunsvold, 4,000 women were killed at the hands of a domestic violence abuser, and of those 4,000, 70% of them were killed by someone using a firearm, and so when I look at numbers like that, it seems to me it's absolutely imperative that we remove firearms or the ability to have a firearm legally from a situation like that."

"Which version of this Bill do you have to use a firearm in this, in this situation, or is this the other version of your Bill?"

"This version says that any act of domestic violence whether a firearm is used or not."

"So, you could use something else and then they would take your gun. You could use a, a different weapon and take, then they take your guns away."

"You can use a knife, and you can lose your gun if your convicted of that Act of domestic violence, yes."

"Well, I would ask the Members to look carefully at this, because this is not going to work either as Representative Moore's Bill I don't think will work either because the time delay in it. So, it's pretty far fetched, 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 and many weapons are used in the home and to pick out the guns which is politically for some, the thing to do today. Let's not be, let's not be pressured by what we perceive to be the voter's wishes, because I really don't think they are the voters wishes. I'd ask a 'no' vote on the Amendment."

"Representative Black."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. An inquiry of the Chair. Perhaps the Chair could enlighten me as to why there's no, the date stamped as to when this Amendment was filed is relatively faint, and I've gone around and looked at many copies. We cannot tell when it was filed, we just received the copy. Perhaps the fire in the Legislative printing unit damaged the rubber stamp yesterday, or what?"

"Representative Black it was filed first thing this morning."

"First thing this morning."

"First thing."

"As you can see, I have a little square on my sheet, but there's nothing in it. Maybe we need to get a new rubber stamp or perhaps smoke damage did that. Okay. Well, Madam Speaker, again, to the Chair."

"Representative Black..."

"I simply join Representative Johnson in asking for a Roll Call Vote, pursuant to Rule 55 (c) on Amendment #6, and I am joined by four of my colleagues in requesting that we certainly make sure you've heard Representative Johnson's request."

"I wanted you to know that the fire did damage the stamp and that's the reason why..."

"That's what I was afraid of. Heavens knows what else has been damaged, though I'm sure we'll discover though, next 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day week."

May 20, 1994 "Representative Andrea Moore, on the Amendment." Moore, A.: "Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Will the Speaker yield for a question or two?"

"He indicates..." Moore, A.: "Now, just so that I understand this clearly, the difference between Amendment #6, and #5 is that yours provides that after a conviction of the order, the violation of the order of protection, that's when the seizure of weapons occurs."

"Yes." Moore, A.: "So that the House understands clearly, Amendment #5 was, was put in place and everyone in this House voted for it last time to address a gap in the law. While the order of protection is issued, while there's a hearing where a judge determines where due process is given completely, then there the order of protection is issued and if it was thought by the judge, then the seizure of weapons could occur. Amendment #6 does not address that gap in the law. The statistics that you used to gain support for your Bill, are, in fact, important, so important that I would remind the House that there were two women in my district in Lake County last year that were, in fact, assaulted and one was murdered, while under the order of protection, not after the conviction, Representative, but while under an order of protection. Continually, we hear from the police there isn't anything we can do while the order of protection is issued, unless there's been a violation, but the judge can make that determination with a fact finding hearing, and Amendment #5 has been changed so significantly that I think the House needs to be aware. Your Bill does not go far enough, it's too late for women after the conviction. It 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 needs to be while under the order of protection, and I would ask you to vote 'no' on this Amendment."

"Representative Blagojevich."

"Representative Moore, can I respond by asking you a question? Do you support the concept of seizing firearms from people convicted of domestic battery..."

"Representative Blagojevich, Representative, you are out of order."

"Andrea Moore, well, Representative Moore I would encourage you to support this Bill. I supported your Amendment, and your Amendment passed out of this House and it is now in the Senate. It seems to me that if we can pass your version in the Senate, I would applaud that, and I would go around the whole state and applaud that. But, if we can't pass that in the Senate, seems to me this is the next best alternative. I would like to see the seizure of a firearm at the stage where an order of protection is issued, but if we can't get that, I would like a conviction."

"Representative Blagojevich, please. Representative Cross, on the Amendment."

"Thank you, Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes, he will."

"Thank you. Representative, there's also, I've got a copy of the Amendment, there's more than just your Bill in here it looks like. Does this Amendment also include the Police Protection Enhancement Fund?"

"No. I'm sorry, yes."

"Is, is there anything else in it besides the Police Protection Enhancement Fund in your language?"

"No."

"Okay. What is the Police Protection Enhancement Fund?" 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994

"It's an Amendment that I think we've seen before, and it simply allows for the additional funding of more police, and I think that's a good idea."

"The Amendment that the Speaker's sponsored on the previous Bills?"

"Correct. He has the wisdom of sponsoring that, yes."

"What's, with respect to your Amendment, the language here. You also, besides order of protection, violation of order of protection, domestic battery, I see stalking and aggravated stalking as well. Is that your intention? We haven't been talking about that the last few minutes."

"It's not in the Bill, because that stalking and aggravated stalking is a felony already and it's covered."

"Is there any..."

"It's also in the Bill, so it is superfluous, because the reality is if those are felonies, you cannot have a gun already. If there exists a misdemeanor that does that, then that would, you would lose it, but it does, I don't think that happens."

"It also adds that, or a substantially similar offense of another jurisdiction, are we talking about a state jurisdiction, or an..."

"I'm sorry Representative, I didn't hear the question."

"It also refers to, it lists that domestic battery, stalking, aggravated stalking, etc, more of a substantially similar offense in other jurisdictions. What jurisdiction are you referring to?"

"Laws in another state, that sort of thing."

"The next start, there's an area that gives the Department of state police the authority to revoke a firearm. How are 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 we going to notify the state police of a conviction of an order of protection, or a violation of an order of protection, just mechanically how are we going to go about doing this?"

"I would imagine that the same rules would apply in that situation as it presently apply when someone is convicted of a felony, probably the state's attorney's office, or the local prosecutor's office..."

"I'm just curious, what is the, do you know the mechanics of how we're doing that now, and what we're doing?"

"That's a good, that's a good question. You and I were former prosecutors, we should know this, probably. Maybe Representative Dart can give us an answer."

"Does he know the answer?"

"The leads units within the state's attorney's office. He just confirmed what I suspected was the case. Unfortunately, I didn't know it beyond a reasonable doubt."

"How are we, mechanically then, how are we taking the guns, or the firearms away? I know the FOID card is, is to be revoked, but then what do we do?"

"I, theoretically it would work like this. The guys' convicted of beating his wife, you are now, the FOID cards are checked."

"Or her husband, whatever the case may be."

"Correct, absolutely. It's gender neutral, but the statistics are very obvious that it usually happens to women. The FOID cards are searched by the state police. They then ask that convicted domestic batterer to bring in voluntarily his or her gun. If they don't do that, then the state police would have to ask a local prosecutor's agency to seek a search warrant to go into the house in violation of a law. If they want to go to that extent, 51  135th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1994 that's what they would do."

"Do they have the authority to do that under this Bill, or another one? Do you know?"

"Existing law allows it for felonies, we're not tampering with existing law in term, with regard to that part."

"My, my concern is not in issuance of the FOID card, it's in the revocation portion. I understand the mechanics of applying for a FOID card, but subsequent to an offense after a FOID cards been issued. How do we get the guns turned in? Assuming we don't have a search."

"Right. If they don't voluntarily do it, and we, that's the first step, then it would be, if there's probable cause to think that there are guns in that situation, then a prosecutor would, would have to do what they do if a felon has a gun. The same procedures."

"And, how are we going to know what guns that are there are, or are not there, in the house?"

"We're going to allow that to local law enforcement, and that's their job. We're going to delegate authority as we do so well, here. Nothing changes with regard to enforcement of this, as presently exists for anybody convicted with a felony, or of a felony."

"And, the additional offenses."

"And these additional offenses would just be, the execution would be the same as these felons."

"We still though, Representative, I'm just, and I don't, I'm not following it in the language of the Bill, or the Amendment. We still run the risk, we don't have the ability to trace guns in this state, is that correct?"

"I'm sorry Representative, I didn't catch that."

"We don't have the ability to trace guns in this state now 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day do we?"

"Well, yeah..." May 20, 1994

"I mean we just don't, we're never going to know if we, if were going to get any, the guns out there from the convicted felon, are we?"

"I suppose the success rate in terms of having these guns turned in would be about the same percentages as are presently occurring with regard to convicted felons. I suppose those numbers are going to be very similar whatever they may be."

"Thank you."

"Thank you."

"Representative Frias."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise in a point of personal privilege. I would like the Members of the House to join me in welcoming the graduating class of the Cicero School which is a school in my district. (Spanish Language). Thank you."

"That's a violation of our rules, Representative. But... Representative Lawfer."

"Thank you, Madam Chairman. Would the Speaker yield for a question?"

"Yes, he will. Yes, he will."

"The police protection enhancement fund has not been discussed much, and this is the part of the Amendment, is that correct?"

"I'm proud to say, Representative Lawfer that it is, yes."

"And how much will that collect then? What is the estimated revenue that would come into that fund?"

"Two hundred million dollars a year."

"Two hundred million?" 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day

"For more police, yes."

May 20, 1994 "And this would be money that would be diverted from the General Revenue Fund, is that correct? If it does not go into the enhancement fund?"

"New collections." revenue for the most part, sales tax

"If the $200,000,000 did not go into the enhancement fund, where would it go to?"

"Hopefully into other law enforcement public protection type things, because I again, I would emphasize to all of us, our first duty is to provide for the public safety of our fellow citizens. I like the proactive approach, that's why I like this Police Amendment."

"And, I agree to that."

"Let's get crime before it happens."

"I, I I guess I would just needed a clarification of some of the figures. I, on the, going back to the other part in regard to the FOID card. You know, revoking a FOID card and SO on, guess you know, that can be done at the present time, but of course, it, would there be any accountability here to the number of weapons. I mean, how are we going to determine you know, somebody who has a FOID card, and is revoked and they turn in a weapon, you know, how can we be sure that that's the only weapon?"

"Well, anybody who doesn't have an FOID card, a FOID card shouldn't have a weapon in Illinois. So, if you have somebody who abuses his or her spouse, and, and that person doesn't have a FOID card, that person shouldn't have a gun anyway..."

"In other words, if I was forced to turn in my FOID card then I would need to turn in all of my weapons at that time?" 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day

"Yes, Representative Lawfer, yes." May 20, 1994

"And, they would be confiscated then by what, the police, the court system, or where do these weapons end up then?"

"The state police."

"And then they, they would be destroyed then?"

"They would, and the good thing about this Bill is, it only goes after the guy's who beat their wives, or wives who beat their husbands, and are convicted of that and are proven beyond a reasonable doubt. That's why I like this Bill. They can't have guns, what's wrong with that."

"Well, I, I agree anybody that misuses a weapon, that that weapon should be taken away. However, I just want to make sure that you know, we're approved that that person has been guilty of a crime and that that weapon has been used in operative. In other words, but it would be, for example a person know that had a complete collection of weapons and then was accused of that would have to turn the entire collection in, is that correct?"

"No, that's the beauty of this Bill, too. It's more than an accusation. That's what we like about this. You've got to be found guilty in a criminal proceeding, you've got to be convicted, be with proof beyond a reasonable doubt. You're a convicted batterer of your spouse, or your girlfriend, and we say to you, you shouldn't have a gun because you are dangerous, you can hurt somebody, and last year in the United States, 4,000 women died and 70% of them were, died at the hands of somebody with a firearm. So, we say hey, you going to beat your wife, and your found guilty of doing it, you can't have a gun."

"Thank you very much."

"Thank you." 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994

"Representative Ronen on the question." Ronen: It's "Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just rise in support of this Bill, Commend the Sponsor for putting forward what is a very important and practical piece of legislation. very clear that we have a problem in this country. The statistics have already been stated, 4,000 women died last year, 70% as a result of a firearm. This Bill is a responsible first step to address that serious problem. Right now we say it's against the law for a felon to own a gun or to have a FOID card. This is just an expansion of say that those who are convicted, convicted of domestic battery, or convicted of violating protection also fall into that category. system in place to follow through with this, we know we can, this is a workable solution, it's a positive that to an order of We have the first step, and I urge, urge everybody to vote for this Bill."

"Representative Hoffman.

"Yes, Representative, question of the Sponsor."

"Yes, he will."

"Representative, you were talking about, hello."

"Hi, how are you."

"Are you awake over there? You were talking about a search warrant, whether a search warrant is needed. It's my understanding that you would still have to get a search warrant in order to go into these individuals houses, is that right?"

"Yes."

"So, your earlier statement that you did need a search warrant was just an error."

"Not the first one I've ever made. Thanks for pointing that out, I really appreciate that. remember that." I'll always 56  135th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1994

"Yeah, that's right. Just a slight error, like, just totally wrong this time, right?"

"Evidently."

"So, in other words, if first there has to be a conviction, right? Then in order to go into the individuals house, you have, you would have to have probable cause and receive a search warrant from, from a judge or the court, correct?"

"Absolutely."

"So, there are protections in this Bill, so that you just can't go barging into an individual's house?"

"I think constitutionally from a safeguards of the constitution, I think it's a solid as can be. As far as I know, the law regarding taking guns away from convicted felons has not been constitutionally challenged. It certainly has not been constitutionally overturned, nothing changes with regard to this. So, it's the same principle."

"Thank you, Representative."

"Thank you."

"Representative Hawkins."

"Would the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Yes, he will."

"How long would a person be without his gun? How long?"

"In perpetuity, forever."

"He would never be able to, he would never, okay. I want to move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved for... Representative Mulligan, I'm sorry, Representative Mulligan."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Yes, he will."

"Representative Blagojevich, if this Amendment were to 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 fail, oh I'm sorry, are we moving the previous question?"

"Feel free to ask the question, that's okay, as far as I'm concerned."

"If this were an Amendment, if this Amendment were to fail, what is left on this Bill, your original Bill, and Representative Moore's Amendment? There are not other Amendments on the Bill?"

"The Police Amendment."

"No, no. If this Amendment fails, the Police Amendment is not on the Bill."

"That's right."

"Just as a matter of record, Speaker Madigan's Police Enhancement Bill has been amended on to how many Bills that have gone over to the Senate already?"

"I don't, that's a good question. It seems like a..."

"A fair number, correct?"

"Right. Hopefully one of those can become law so we can have more police and safer streets."

"But, your Bill and when Representative Lawfer was questioning you, he asked you a question, and you answered that by putting that Bill on, you were being proactive, but you were taking off Representative Moore's Bill, which you said you agreed with, and which left your original Bill in-tact, there by removing the initial point at which, a women in a domestic violence instance may be killed long before the case comes to court. I don't consider that proactive, how do you consider that proactive?"

"I appreciate that question. I'm glad you asked that. Here's why. I completely support Representative Moore's' Amendment, and I applaud the fact that her Amendment is already in the Senate. I would like another 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 Bill that does something just a little bit different to throw into the mix in the Senate. So that, we've got two domestic violence seizing a firearms Bills operating in the Senate. If for example, in these chambers where compromise and bartering and so forth happens, we have two domestic violence Bills there, I think we're all the better, and it's good policy. If I could think that her Bill, her Amendment would be on my Bill that would bring strength in the Senate, I would say absolutely let's have it. But the fact of the matter is, based on what I'm hearing, her Amendment could actually raise some questions in the Senate. There are constitutional questions regarding the taking of a property right, prior to a conviction, that could, very well, mean that Representative Moore's' Amendment could not succeed in the Senate. So, I would like something that isn't as affective as hers in the long run, I'm the first to tell you that, but it does something about taking firearms from people who are convicted of domestic violence. And, so that's the purpose, and I'll do anything I can to pass her Amendment. I have a Bill just like her Amendment, and the other part with Representative Moore's' Amendment it says this, if your, you can only, this order of protection only applies if you've used a gun in the act of, or a firearm in the act of domestic violence. This Bill is broader, it covers more area. Any act of domestic violence. You don't need to have a gun, you just got to beat your wife with a, with your hand, or your fist, and you're convicted of that, you lose a gun, too. Under Representative Moore's' Amendment, you don't get an order of protection, and then lose a gun if you've beat your wife with something other than a weapon, and so, in many respects her Bill covers more ground, but in other 59  135th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1994 respects it doesn't, and the problem of actually enacting a law. That to me is a test, not just passing a Bill out of this House. Let's get it over to the Senate, and let's have it in the mix where it has a chance of being a law, so we can try to do something right now in 1994 about this domestic violence problem."

"To the Bill. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the Bill, Representative Blagojevich's' Bill, which is a very good Bill as it stands and made only better by Representative Moore's Bill which would end up that way, if we were to defeat this Amendment. It's a wonderful Bill, and Representative Moore's' Amendment is a wonderful Amendment that I think makes it a complete Bill. Amendment #6 makes it a garden variety Bill, because we've seen the police enhancement Bill on any number of Bill and, so now we have turned Representative Blagojevich's Bill into just a common ordinary Bill, one that the Senate will probably throw out. I really think we should defeat Amendment #6, go back to look at the original Bill with Representative Moore's Amendment, which is a wonderful Amendment, and then pass that as something that we would send to the Senate with pride. Thank you."

"Representative Black.'

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. The hour grows late, and we need to get the printing unit fixed, and the rubber stamp fixed. I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved for previous question. All those in favor say 'aye'; opposed 'no'. The Th previous question has been put. Representative Blagojevich to close on Amendment #6."

"My closing is, I ask your support, I implore those who care about domestic violence, and firearms to consider 60  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 the practical aspect of this too. If we can pass this Bill out in it's form, we can have Andrea Moore's Amendment that's already in the Senate, are we can have this version there, too. So, we've got two tough domestic violence Bills operating in the next chamber. There's more to governing than simply passing Bills out of one chamber. Let's enact laws, let's do something about that, and if we can pass this, I would then encourage all of us, every Legislator here to remember that all roads then leave to, lead to Pate Philip and that we should call Pate Philip to ask him to call this Bill in the Senate, and take a vote on it so that we can pass this as law. I would ask you to do that as well, and maybe we should all write our Senators, and ask them to call this Bill all roads lead to Pate Philip, if we can pass this out of the House. Let's call him and have him call this Bill, let's do something about domestic violence right now."

"The Gentleman moves for adoption of Amendment #6 to House Bill 2542. All those in favor vote 'aye'; opposed, vote 'no'. The voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. Representative Johnson has asked for a verification? Mr. Clerk would you please poll the affirmative. Representative Turner would like to be recorded as voting 'aye'. Representative Lang, what reason do you rise?"

"Madam Speaker, I would ask the Chair to rule this request dilatory. This is an Amendment, it only needs a majority, he would need to knock off 40 people. I don't think he can do that."

"Representative Tim Johnson." Johnson, Tim: "I don't, I don't withdraw my request." 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1994 135th Legislative Day

"Proceed."

"Those voting in the affirmative. Representatives Balanoff. Balthis. Blagojevich. Brady. Bugielski. Burke. Capparelli. Cross. Curran. Currie. Dart. Davis. DeJaegher. Dunn. Edley. Erwin. Flowers. Frederick. Frias. Gash. Giglio. Giles. Giolitto. Granberg."

"Representative Younge would like to have leave to be verified. Does she have leave? Representative Tim Johnson. Representative Johnson. She has leave. Thank you."

"Hannig. Hanrahan. Hawkins. Hoeft. Hoffman. Homer. Jones, Lou. Kotlarz. Lang. Laurino. Lawfer. Levin. Lindner. Lopez. Martinez. McAfee. McGuire. McPike. Meyer. Moffitt. Moore, Eugene. Morrow. Moseley. Ostenburg. Persico. Phelan. Prussing. Pugh. Raschke-Lind. Ronen. Roskam. Rotello. Santiago. Schakowsky. Schoenberg. Sheehy. Steczo. Stephens. Stroger. Turner. von Bergen-Wessels. Wirsing. Younge. Zickus. Mr. Speaker."

"Representative Homer, for what reason do you rise?"

"Leave to be verified, Tim."

"The Gentleman has leave. Representative Rotello would like to be recorded as voting 'no'. Please record him. Representative Walsh would like to be recorded as voting 'yes'. Please record him. Representative Cross would like to be recorded as voting 'aye'. Please record her. Representative Johnson would like to be recorded, Representative Stephens would like to be recorded as voting 'present'. Representative Johnson, are there any questions?" 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day Johnson, Tim.: "Ready. Currie?"

May 20, 1994 "Representative Currie. Representative Currie. How is the Lady recorded?"

"Representative Currie is voting in the affirmative."

"Would you please remove the Lady. Representative Hicks for what reason do you rise."

"Madam Speaker, I see that 18 people weren't present, I really wanted a poll of the absentees before you started." Johnson, Tim.: "I'll see to that request."

"Mr. Clerk, would you please poll the absentees?"

Daniels. "Those Members not voting." Ackerman. Biggins. Jones, Shirley. Krause. Kubik. Murphy, M. Noland. Rutherford. Saviano. Weller. Wennlund."

"Representative Johnson." Johnson, Tim: "Then we'll keep going here. Schakowsky?"

"Representative Schakowsky is in her seat." Johnson, Tim: "Ronen?"

Johnson, Tim: Speaker "Representative Ronen is in her seat." "Erwin?"

"Representative Erwin, Representative Judy Erwin. Please return Representative Currie back to the roll as voting 'yes'." Johnson, Tim: "Giolitto?"

"Would you please remove Representative Julie... Representative Erwin is in the back. Representative Giolitto. Is the lady in the chambers? Johnson, Tim: "Kaszak?" Remove her."

"Representative Kaszak. Is the Lady in the chambers? Representative Kaszak. She was excused." Johnson, Tim: "Frias?" 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day

May 20, 1994 "Excuse me, Representative John Dunn, for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Change my vote to 'present', please!"

"Mr. Clerk, would you please change John Dunns' vote to 'present'." Johnson, Tim: "We keep going now?"

"Representative Carolyn Krause would like to be recorded as voting 'aye'. Representative Zickus. Representative Zickus would like to be recorded as voting 'present'. Representative Lawfer. Representative Lawfer would like to be recorded as voting 'present'. Representative Wirsing would like to be recorded as voting 'present'. Representative Weaver would like to be recorded as voting 'aye'. Representative Sue Deuchler would like to be recorded as voting 'present'. Representative Mulligan, Representative Mulligan would like to be recorded as voting 'present'. Representative Tim Johnson are there any further?" Johnson, Tim: "Yes, I have a number more. I'm just letting everybody do their thing."

"Mr. Clerk, please continue." Johnson, Tim: "Phelan?"

"Representative Phelan. Remove him, Mr. Clerk." Representative Johnson, Tim: "Blagojevich, no he's here. Saltsman?"

"Representative Saltsman, Representative Saltsman, he's voting 'no'." Johnson, Tim: "Capparelli?"

"Representative Capparelli. Remove him, Mr. Clerk." Johnson, Tim: "Laurino?" 64  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994

"Representative Laurino. Remove him, Mr. Clerk Tim Johnson, Tim: "Kotlarz?"

"Representative Kotlarz. Representative Kotlarz. Remove him, Mr. Clerk." Johnson, Tim: "Bugielski?"

"Representative Bugielski. Representative Bugielski. Remove him, Mr. Clerk." Johnson, Tim: "Santiago?"

"Representative Santiago. Please remove him from the roll." Johnson, Tim: "Lopez?"

"Representative Lopez. Representative Giglio would like to have leave to be verified. Does he have leave, Representative Johnson? Yes, he does." Johnson, Tim: "Lou Jones?"

"Representative Lou Jones. Remove her, Mr. Clerk. Representative Lopez. Remove him, Mr. Clerk." Johnson, Tim: "Did you get Morrow?"

"Representative Morrow, Representative Charles Morrow would you please remove him. Mr. Clerk would you please add Representative Giolitto back to the roll as voting 'aye'. Pardon me, Representative Johnson?" Johnson, Tim: "Edward DeJaegher?"

"Representative DeJaegher. Representative DeJaegher. Please remove him from the roll." Johnson, Tim: "Flinn?"

"Representative Monroe Flinn. Please, please remove him." Johnson, Tim: "Novak?"

"Representative Turner would like to have leave to be verified. Does he have leave? Yes." 65  135th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1994 Johnson, Tim: "Yes, that's fine. Novak?" Speaker Flowers  135th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 20, 1994 further Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 2542, a Bill for an Act in relation to firearms. Third Reading of this Bill."

"Out of the record. Representative Granberg moves that the House stands adjourned...not yet, I was just checking everyone. Mr. Clerk, would you please read the Adjournment Resolution now that we have everyone's attention."

"A Message from the Senate by Mr. Jim Harry, Secretary. 'Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has adopted the following Senate Joint Resolutions. In the adoption of which I'm instructed to ask the concurrence of the House of Representatives. Senate Joint Resolution 166 resolved by the Senate of the 88th General Assembly of the State of Illinois the House of Representatives concurring herein, that when the two houses adjourn on Friday, May 20, 1994, the Senate stands adjourned until Wednesday, May 25, at the hour of 2:00 o'clock p.m.; and the House of Representatives stands adjourned until Tuesday, May 24, 1994 at 1:00 p.m.; adopted by the Senate May 20, 1994. Jim Harry, Secretary of the Senate."

"Allowing for sufficient Perfunctory time... Representative Granberg moves for the adoption of the Senate Adjournment Resolution 166. All those in favor say 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it, the Resolution is adopted. Representative Lang."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. On the yellow sheet that was passed out yesterday with the schedule for next week, it indicates that there's a 12:00 noon hearing of the House 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 Judiciary Committee. That meeting is at 10:00 a.m., that's when it's posted, 10:00 am. in Room 118 to discuss further riverboat proposals, on Monday, 10:00 am."

"Representative Hannig."

"Yes, thank you, Madam Speaker and Members of the House. Just to let the membership know that we've started marking up the governor's proposal on medicaid, and we'll continue that process Monday at 11:00 o'clock in Room 114, and anyone whose interested is certainly welcome to attend, we'd like to see you there. Thank you."

"Representative Granberg moves that House now stands adjourned until Tuesday, at 1:00. All those in favor say 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it and allowing for perfunctory time, the House stands adjourned."

"Perfunctory Session will be in order. Second Reading of Senate Bills with the intent of leaving them on the Order of Second Reading. Senate Bill 1144, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Senate Bill 1147, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Senate Bill 1165, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Senate Bill 1181, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Senate Bill 1182, a Bill for an Act relating to the provision of financial services on state owned property. Senate Bill 1186, a Bill for an Act concerning the transfer and deposit of educational moneys, amending named Acts. Senate Bill 1258, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the State Board of Elections. Senate Bill 1261, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Senate Bill 1297, a Bill for an Act concerning toll bridges. Senate Bill 1311... Senate Bill 1318, a Bill for an Act to amend the Home Equity Assurance Act. Senate Bill 1319, a Bill for an Act to amend the Hospital District Law. 68  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 Senate Bill 1322, a Bill for an Act to amend the Higher Education Student Assistance Act. Senate Bill 1324, a Bill for an Act relating to education. Senate Bill 1364, a Bill for an Act concerning Illinois Governmental Ethics Act. Senate Bill 1427, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Drainage Code. Senate Bill 1454, a Bill for an Act to revise the law by combining multiple enactments and making technical corrections. Senate Bill 1455, a Bill for an Act to revise the law by combining multiple enactments and making technical corrections. Senate Bill 1457, a Bill for an Act relating to medicaid cost savings suggestions award program. Senate Bill 1477, a Bill for an Act concerning first aid training. Senate Bill 1480, a Bill for an Act to amend the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois. Senate Bill 1546, a Bill for an Act 5-20, as added by Public Act. Senate Bill 1560, a Bill for an Act to amend the Minority and Female Business Enterprise Act. Senate Bill 1570, a Bill for an Act named Act. Senate Bill 1579, a Bill for an Act in relation to child abuse and neglect reports by service providers. Senate Bill 1595, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Senate Bill 1620, a Bill for an Act the Liquor Control Act of 1934. Senate Bill 1657, a Bill for an Act concerning interest on judgments. Senate Bill 1670, a Bill for an Act to amend the Bi-State Development Powers Act. Senate Bill 1672, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Municipal Code. Senate Bill 1692, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Development Finance Authority Act. Senate Bill 1702, a Bill for an Act concerning unnecessary statutes. Senate Bill 1704, a Bill for an Act to amend the Lead Poisoning Prevention Act. Senate Bill 1709, a Bill for an Act concerning insurance. Senate Bill 1710, a Bill for an Act concerning employee insurance 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 benefits. Senate Bill 1715, a Bill for an Act in relation to the transfer of interests in real property. Senate Bill 1718, a Bill for an Act to create the University of Illinois Hospital Services Fund. Senate Bill 1729, a Bill for an Act in relation to support responsibilities and paternity. Senate Bill 1733, a Bill for an Act concerning school bus drivers. Senate Bill 1747, a Bill for an Act concerning child protection, amending named Acts. Senate Bill 1755, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Judicial Inquiry Board. Senate Bill 1756, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Court of Claims. Senate Bill 1762, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Governor. Senate Bill 1766, a Bill for an Act to amend the Public Community College Act. Senate Bill 1771, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Court of Claims. Senate Bill 1773, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Lieutenant Governor. Senate Bill 1803, a Bill for an Act concerning extension and removal of repealers. Senate Bill 1832, a Bill for an Act to amend the Lieutenant Governor's Office of Voluntary Action Act. Second Reading of these Bills, these Bills will be held on the Order of Second Reading."

"Messages from the Senate. A Message from the Senate by Mr. Harry, Secretary. 'Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate is concurred with the House of Representatives in the passage of the following Bills, House 1129 together with Senate Amendment 1, 4, 5. House Bill 1352, together with Senate Amendments 1 and 2. House Bill 1391, together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 1513, together with Senate Amendment 1, 2 and 3. House Bill 1569, together with 70  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 Senate Amendments 1 and 2. House Bill 1594, together with Senate Amendments 1 and 2. House Bill 1635, together with Senate Amendments 1, 2 and 3. House Bill 1853, together with Senate Amendment 1, 2 and 3. House Bill 2107, together with Senate Amendments 1, 2 and 3. House Bill 2423, together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 2221, together with Senate Amendment #1 and 2. House Bill 343, together with Senate Amendment 1 and 2. House Bill 298, Jim Harry, Secretary of the Senate'. A Message from the Senate by Mr. Harry, Secretary. 'Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate together with Senate Amendments 1 and 2. House Bill 356, together with Senate Amendments 1, 4 and 5. House Bill 381, together with Senate Amendment 1, 4, 5, and 7. House Bill 410, together with Senate Amendment #3. House Bill 539, together with Senate Amendment 1, 2 and 3. House Bill 696, together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 742, together with Senate Amendment 1 and 2. House Bill 902, together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 2234, together with Senate Amendments 1 and 4. House Bill 6, together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 8, together with Senate Amendment 1 and 2. House Bill 9, together with Senate Amendments 1, 2 and 4. House Bill 44, together with Senate Amendments 1 and 4. House Bill 99, together with Senate Amendments 2 and 3 in the adoption of which Jim Harry, Secretary of the Senate'. A Message from the Senate by Mr. Harry, Secretary. 'Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate I'm instructed to ask concurrence of the House. Passed the Senate as amended May 20, 1994. Jim Harry, Secretary of the Senate'."

"The Perfunctory Session will be in order. 71  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day Second Reading May 20, 1994 of Senate Bills for the purpose of leaving them on the Order of Second Reading. Introduction - First Reading of Bills. Senate Bill 1468, a Bill for an Act concerning the reproduction of business records, amending named Acts. Second Reading of this Bill, and it will be held on the Order of Second Reading."

"Messages from the Senate.

A Message from the Senate by Mr. Harry, Secretary. 'Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has concurred with the House of Representatives, and the passage of a Bill, the following title. House Bill 3278, together with Senate Amendments #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. House Bill 3094, together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 2809, together with Senate Amendment #1, 2 and 3. House Bill 2642, together with Senate Amendments #1 and 2. House Bill 2638, together with Senate Amendments #1, 2, 3, 4 and 7. House Bill 2631, together with Senate Amendment #1, 2, 3 and 4. House Bill 2424, together with Senate Amendments 1, 2 and 3. In which the Senate, the adoption of which I'm instructed to ask concurrence of the House these Bills passed the Senate as amended, on May 20, 1994. Jim Harry, Secretary of the Senate'."

"Being no further business, the House Perfunctory Session will be adjourned, and the House will reconvene on Tuesday, May 24, at the hour of 12:00 noon."

"The House Perfunctory Session will come to order. Messages from the Senate."

"A Message from the Senate by Mr. Harry, Secretary. 'Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has concurred with the House in the passage of the following Bills. House Bill 72  STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 135th Legislative Day May 20, 1994 Bill 3322, together with Senate Amendment 1 and 2. House Bill 3457, together with Senate Amendments 1, 2 and 3. House Bill 3485, together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 3551, together with Senate Amendment 1 and 2. House Bill 3587, together with Senate Amendments 1, 2, 4 and 6, and House Bill 3611, together with Senate Amendments 1 and 3, and House Bill 3975, together with Senate Amendment #1, in the adoption of which I'm instructed to ask concurrence of the House. Passed the Senate as amended May 20." Jim Harry, Secretary of the Senate'."

"Being no further business, the House will stand adjourned until Tuesday, at the hour of 1:00 p.m." 73  REPORT: TIFLDAY PAGE: 001 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX MAY 20, 1994 94/10/18 13:20:09 HB-1702 SECOND READING PAGE 69 HB-1747 SECOND READING PAGE 70 HB-2542 SECOND READING PAGE 41 HB-2542 THIRD READING PAGE 67 HB-2542 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 67 HB-2795 RECALLED PAGE 21 HB-2795 THIRD READING PAGE 21 HB-2795 THIRD READING PAGE 25 HB-2795 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 25 HB-2800 SECOND READING PAGE 6 HB-2800 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 11 HB-3289 SECOND READING PAGE 4 HB-3289 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 4 HB-3297 SECOND READING PAGE 18 HB-3297 THIRD READING PAGE 19 HB-3297 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 20 HB-3731 SECOND READING PAGE 25 HB-3731 THIRD READING PAGE 27 HB-3731 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 40 HB-4070 SECOND READING PAGE 11 HB-4070 THIRD READING PAGE 13 HB-4248 FIRST READING PAGE 3 SB-1144 SECOND READING PAGE 68 SB-1147 SECOND READING PAGE 68 SB-1165 SECOND READING PAGE 68 SB-1181 SECOND READING PAGE 68 SB-1182 SECOND READING PAGE 68 SB-1186 SECOND READING PAGE 68 SB-1258 SECOND READING PAGE 68 SB-1261 SECOND READING PAGE 68 SB-1297 SECOND READING PAGE 68 SB-1318 SECOND READING PAGE 68 SB-1319 SECOND READING PAGE 68 SB-1322 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1324 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1364 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1427 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1454 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1455 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1457 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1477 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1480 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1546 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1560 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1570 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1579 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1595 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1620 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1657 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1670 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1672 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1692 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1702 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1704 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1709 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1710 SECOND READING PAGE 69 SB-1715 SECOND READING PAGE 70 SB-1718 SECOND READING PAGE 70 SB-1729 SECOND READING PAGE 70 SB-1733 SECOND READING PAGE 70 SB-1747 SECOND READING PAGE 70 SB-1755 SECOND READING PAGE 70 SB-1756 SECOND READING PAGE 70 SB-1762 SECOND READING PAGE 70  REPORT: TIFLDAY PAGE: 002 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX MAY 20, 1994 94/10/18 13:20:09 SB-1766 SECOND READING PAGE 70 SB-1771 SECOND READING PAGE 70 SB-1773 SECOND READING PAGE 70 SB-1803 SECOND READING PAGE 70 SB-1832 SECOND READING PAGE 70 SJR-0166 ADOPTED PAGE 67 SJR-0166 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 67 SUBJECT MATTER HOUSE TO ORDER SPEAKER FLOWERS PAGE 1 PRAYER REVEREND ELMO RODGERS PAGE 1 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE PAGE 1 ROLL CALL ATTENDANCE PAGE 1 MESSAGES FROM THE SENATE PAGE 2 HOUSE ADJOURNED PAGE 68 PERFUNCTORY SESSION PAGE 68 MESSAGES FROM THE SENATE PAGE 70 PERFUNCTORY SESSION ADJOURNED PAGE 73