Illinois House Floor Debate — April 20, 1995

April 20, 1995 "The House will be in order. The Members will be in their chairs. Representative Churchill in the Chair. The Chaplain for the day is Pastor Doug Runnels of the Glenview Community Church in Glenview. Pastor Runnels is the guest of Representative Kevin Hanrahan. Will the guests in the Gallery please rise to join us for the invocation? Pastor Runnels."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, would you join me for a moment? Call You by different names, we see You in different places, but truly yesterday we saw You in the tearstained and bloody faces of children, the frightened and broken spirits of men and women. We bring to this place and to this time our compassion, our love, and our prayers for those persons in of all places, a place called Oklahoma City. Use our love on their behalf, that they might be healed, strengthened, and encouraged and be with us that we might here in this place find rededication to the rule of law and peace and hope. Amen and Amen."

"We'll be led in the pledge this morning by Representative Lyons."

Lyons et al: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Representative Currie is recognized to report any excused absences on the Democratic side of the aisle."

"Thank you, Speaker. Please let the record show that Representative Ben Martinez is excused because of illness."

"The Journal will so reflect. Representative Cross, are there any absences on the Republican side?"

"Thank you for recognizing me, Mr. Speaker, and no, there 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 aren't any absences on the Republican side. We're all here. Thank you for asking."

"You're welcome. Mr. Clerk, take the record. There are 116 Members answering the Roll and a quorum is present. The House will come to order. Committee Reports."

"Committee Reports. Committee Report from Representative Biggins, Chairman from the Committee on Appropriations for General Services, to which the following Bills were referred, action taken on April 19th, 1995, reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass' House Bills 2495, 2490, 2489, 2488, 2479, 2478, 808, 70. House Bills 809, 2492, and 2484; 'do pass as amended' House Bill 2491. Committee Report from Representative Tenhouse, Chairman from the Committee on Appropriations for Public Safety, to which the following Bills were referred, action taken on April 19th, 1995, reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass' House Bills 75, 802, 803, 1512, 1513. Committee Report from Representative Maureen Murphy, Chairman from the Committee on Revenue, to which the following Bills and Resolutions and Amendments were referred, action taken on April 19th, 1995, reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do approve for consideration' Floor Amendment #1 to House Bill 1523. Floor Amendment #2 to House Bill 2141. Floor Amendment #2 to House Bill 1172. Floor Amendment #1 to House Bill 1055. Floor Amendment #2 to House Bill 1787. Floor Amendment #4 to House Bill 194. Floor Amendment #4 to House Bill 679 and Floor Amendment #2 to House Bill 1893. Committee Report from Representative Ackerman, Chairman from the Committee on Public Utilities, to which the following Bills and Resolutions and Amendments Floor 2  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 were referred, action taken on April 19th, 1995, reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do approve for consideration' Floor Amendment #2 to House Bill 238. Committee Report from Representative Hughes, Chairman from the Committee on Counties and Townships, to which the following Bills, Resolutions and Amendments were referred, action taken on April 19th, 1995, reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do approve for consideration' Floor Amendment #2 to House Bill 438. Committee Report from Representative Tom Johnson, Chairman from the Committee on Judiciary for Criminal Law, to which the following Bills, Resolutions, and Amendments were referred, action taken on April 19th, 1995, reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do approve for consideration' Floor Amendment #5 to House Bill 1384 and Floor Amendments #6 and 7 to House Bill 2317."

"First Readings."

"Introduction - First Reading of House Bills. House Bill 2501, offered by Representative Santiago, a Bill for an Act making an appropriation to the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs. Introduction - First Reading of Senate Bills. Senate Bill 50, offered by Representative Hoeft, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Senate Bill 147, offered by Representative Mulligan, a Bill for an Act concerning judges. Senate Bill 263, offered by Representative Balthis, a Bill for an Act relating to partial tuition waivers for children of employees of public colleges and universities. Senate Bill 284, offered by Representative Zickus, a Bill for an Act to amend the Metropolitan Water Reclamation District Act. Senate Bill 457, offered by Representative Rutherford, a Bill for an Act that amends the Personnel Code. Senate Bill 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 574, offered by Representative Wennlund, a Bill for an Act that amends the Environmental Protection Act. Senate Bill 606, offered by Representative Wait, a Bill for an Act that amends the Illinois Health Facilities Authority Act. Senate Bill 629, offered by Representative Hughes, a Bill for an Act that amends the Environmental Protection Act. Senate Bill 645, offered by Representative Skinner, a Bill for an Act to permit retired peace officers to carry concealed firearms. Senate Bill 703, offered by Representative McGuire, a Bill for an Act in relation to the recapture of tax benefits. Senate Bill 704, offered by Representative Hoffman, a Bill for an Act concerning the safety of community mental health centers. Senate Bill 746, offered by Representative Zickus, a Bill for an Act that amends the Department of Public Health Act. First Reading and Introduction of these Senate Bills."

"We will now proceed to the Order of House Bills Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 252."

"House Bill 252, a Bill for an Act concerning state provided housing and state employees. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Biggins."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 252 is recommended by the Legislative Audit Commission, cosponsored by Representative Hannig, and it creates the State Employee Housing Act. It directs the Department of Conservation, the Department of Corrections, the Historic Preservation Agency, and the University of Illinois to develop a formal policy on state housing for state employees. Before this Act, agencies had no common 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 basis for housing state employees and this creates a uniform policy, a consistent process for our state employees and I urge it's adoption."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will. Please proceed."

"Representative, you talked about a uniform policy. Could you please explain what is entailed in the Auditor General's recommendations and what exactly is entailed in your legislation when you talk about a uniform policy, please?"

"Representative Biggins."

"The Act addresses the following issues: first of all, the purpose of providing housing, the procedures for applying for gaining the use of housing, the eligibility, the tenant selection criteria, the accounting for housing in employee compensation, the employee responsibilities that necessitate state owned housing for employees in the first place and procedures for setting and adjusting rent, security deposits, and utility payments. And I want to emphasize the procedures for setting and adjusting rent because that is where the state may come out ahead because in prior, some of the policies were SO lax that the employees were paying very, very low rents for the state subsidized housing and this policy will make it uniform. They will pay closer to market rents for housing and the state would be better off financially for that and also, it provides for documented justification for any state ownership of any house or any such property."

"Representative Granberg." 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"Representative, what departments would this apply to? How many agencies actually provide housing for their employees and this I assume it would be Corrections for wardens and agencies such as that?"

"Representative Biggins."

"Yes, the Department of Conservation, Corrections, you're correct, Representative, the Historic Preservation Agency and the University of Illinois."

"Representative Granberg."

"The agencies actually impact, Representative. I only heard part of your response, I apologize. So it would be Corrections, Conservation, who else?"

"Representative Biggins."

"The Historic Preservation Agency, the University of Illinois, also, the Department of Transportation providing 73 units."

"Representative Granberg."

"At the University of Illinois, Representative Biggins, do you know off hand who would be impacted there? Is it the Chancellor, the Vice President, is mostly administrative people who are provided this type of housing?"

"Representative Biggins."

"Representative, I don't know all of the individual occupants of the state owned housing. However, you're correct in supposing that the administrators are some of those people."

"Representative Granberg."

"And you indicated, Representative, that something closer to a fair market value for rent would be determined. Who would make that determination once your recommendations are put into law?" 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

April 20, 1995 "Representative Biggins."

"Well, this legislation directs those departments to get and work together to develop a policy, a formal policy on housing for state employees. I don't know what that rent would be because it has to be based upon the economic conditions of each individual housing unit, which is of course located throughout our state and I think that we would leave that up to those agencies. We just want to have a consistent policy so that the state is not losing money in providing this housing."

"Representative Granberg."

"So if I understand this correctly, your legislation directs each state agency to formulate a policy for how they deal with housing for their employees. Is that correct?"

"Representative Biggins."

"Yes, that's correct."

"Representative Granberg."

"So in your Bill, Representative Biggins, it states that, for instance, the Department of Corrections shall ascertain the costs, the fair market value, the economic conditions of say, Vandalia prison and the housing availability and what should be a fair market value of rent for the warden of Vandalia?"

"Representative Biggins."

"Yes, Representative, it requires to these departments to evaluate on a three year basis, rents charged by themselves upon employees for state owned housing and when they're done with this process, the Legislative Audit Commission, which again initiated this proposal, would be viewing and analyzing the results of their efforts."

"Representative Granberg with 19 seconds." 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"So each state agency then has to undertake the evaluation of what is the fair market value, what economic conditions would be factored into the fair market value for housing, what type of employee, what type of housing is available in that market or in that ..."

"Representative Granberg, please bring your question to a conclusion."

"What types of housing would be available in that region and then I assume, Representative, that they have a certain amount of time to make this evaluation, looking back over the prior three years and then could you just tell me how this action would work, then the agency would make the evaluation over what period of time, three years? When do they have to come back with their recommendation on how they would do the housing? Do they then submit that to the Legislative Audit Commission and then what happens at that point and when would these requirements or standards or the uniform standard, as you indicated, when would all this go into effect? So would how this actually work, step by step?"

"Representative Biggins."

"The process is a three year evaluation process. The agency would be responsible for telling us, the Legislature, through the Audit Commission that the process for housing each employee that they house and the basis for the rent they charge the employee, keeping in mind that we want to, the only reason we would subsidize housing is to save the taxpayer's money. We don't want to charge them market rent, per se, if their salaries are below market level. So we want to enhance the taxpayers' monies and utilize them as best as possible so that the employees are housed in properties owned by the state or rented by the 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 state and we are getting the best dollar use of state funds available."

"If there be no further discussion, Representative Biggins to close. There were no lights on at the time I called that, ... Representative Biggins to close."

"Well, I would just like to recommend a 'aye' vote on this Bill, House Bill 252. Again, it's created by the Legislative Audit Commission and as a result of an audit, we found some inconsistencies in the way that employees of the state were being housed and that were being charged for such housing. Where this Bill also involves the Internal Revenue Service to become involved in any taxation problems or issues that maybe come up as a result of this legislation and I urge its adoption along with my cosponsor, Representative Hannig."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 252 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. For what purpose does the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang, rise?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for acknowledging me. Should this receive the requisite number, we would request a verification."

"Your request is acknowledged. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. There are 64 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', 51 voting 'present'. Representative Lang, do you persist in your request for a verification?"

"Yes, Sir."

"Mr. Clerk, please read those voting in the affirmative." 9  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995

"Those voting in the affirmative."

"Excuse me, Mr. Clerk. Representative Lang, Representative Myers is asking for leave to be verified, would you? Okay, so Representative Myers has leave to be verified. I'm sorry, Mr. Clerk, please proceed."

"Those Representatives voting in the affirmative: Ackerman. Balthis. Biggert. Biggins. Black. Bost. Brady. Churchill. Ciarlo. Clayton. Cowlishaw. Cross. Deuchler. Durkin. Hanrahan. Hassert. Hoeft. Hughes. Johnson, Tim. Johnson, Tom. Jones, John. Klingler. Krause. Kubik. Lachner. Lawfer. Leitch. Lindner. McAuliffe. Meyer. Mitchell. Moffitt. Moore, Andrea. Mulligan. Murphy, Maureen. Myers. Noland. O'Connor. Pankau. Parke. Pedersen. Persico. Poe. Roskam. Rutherford. Ryder. Salvi. Saviano. Skinner. Spangler. Stephens. Tenhouse. Turner, John. Wait. Weaver. Wennlund. Winkel. Winters. Wirsing. Wojcik. Zabrocki. Zickus. Mr. Speaker."

"Representative Lang, Representative Deuchler is asking if she might have leave to be verified and you've granted that. For what purpose does the Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black, rise?"

"Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I just broke my glasses. I can't see the board and I can't even see my list here. How am I recorded? I know I can't remember. I'm color blind and without my glasses, I can't see the board."

"Well, unfortunately, Representative Black, as I looked through the lower portion of my new bifocals, I was having a hard time seeing your name, but if I look through the upper portion, it looks like you're voting in the affirmative. I would see you as a green vote." 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"I'm voting 'yes'?"

"You're voting 'yes'."

"And what is the question before us?" April 20, 1995

"We're doing a verification of the vote."

"The question before us is what? What is the question? I don't know what the question is before us. I've been busy."

"Representative Black, we're in the middle of a verification."

"In the middle of what?"

"Do you need your glasses to hear, too?"

"Yeah, it's got a built in thing in the ear piece. I thank you for calling that to everyone's attention. I've tried to hide it these many years. We're in the middle of, I'm sorry, what did you say?"

"Yes."

"Verification? Oh, verification. We're in the middle of a verification. I'm sorry, I really can't hear you. I'm sorry. Verification, I understand that, therefore my inquiry is that, could I be, what is it? I'd like to leave. Can I be verified?"

"Representative Lang, apparently Representative Black needs to leave the Floor. From his recent performance, I think it might be in your best interest to let him go. Would you give him leave to be verified? Representative Lang."

"I don't know who the last Speaker was, Mr. Speaker. Is Mr. Black here?"

"Representative Lang, I now know why Representative Black can't see. I think you have his glasses. Does he have leave to be verified? Can we please get Representative Black off the Floor? Representative 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day Black, in your hands, in your hands, if you'll just look down and lift your hands up to your face, your glasses are in your hands. They're not on top of your head as you thought. Representative Lang, Representative Leitch asked if he may have leave to be verified."

"Sure."

"Representative Black, you have leave to be verified. You may leave, please."

"May I proceed now, Sir?"

"Representative Lang, please proceed."

"Thank you. Representative Saviano?"

"I'm sorry, Representative Lang, I didn't hear the ..."

"Representative Saviano."

"Representative Saviano. Is Representative Saviano in the Chamber? The Chair does not see Representative Saviano. Please remove him."

"Representative Wojcik?"

"Representative Wojcik? Is Representative Wojcik in the Chamber? She's often on your side of the aisle, Representative Lang, I just have to look over there. I do not see Representative Wojcik. Please remove Representative Wojcik."

"Representative Brady?"

"Representative Brady is sitting in his chair. He's holding both of his hands up. Representative Brady, would you please stand up and wave to Representative Lang so he has a good idea of where you are?"

"Thank you, Representative McAuliffe? Mr. Speaker?"

"For what reason does the Gentleman from Madison, Representative Stephens, rise?"

"Are we doing a verification?" 12  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995

"Yes, we are in the middle of a verification, Sir."

"May I have leave to be verified, please?"

"Representative Lang, Representative Stephens asked for leave to be verified."

"We'd be happy to have Mr. Stephens off the Floor as long as he wants to be, Sir."

"Representative Stephens, they have granted you a permanent leave to be verified for the day."

"Representative, can I proceed, Sir? Representative McAuliffe?"

"Representative McAuliffe? Representative, the Gentleman from Will, Representative Wennlund, for what reason do you seek recognition?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if Representative Lang would give me leave to be verified. I've got to check on our next pay raise."

"Representative Lang, Representative Wennlund believes that he's doing something in your best interest. Would you give him leave to be verified?"

"If he wants to do something in my best interest, he can also leave the Floor for the day. I'm still asking about Representative McAuliffe."

"Representative Wennlund, you have permanent leave to be verified for the whole day, so. I'm sorry, before I was interrupted, what was the name we're looking for now?"

"McAuliffe, Sir."

"Representative McAuliffe? Is Representative Roger McAuliffe in the Chamber? I do not see Representative Roger McAuliffe. He also spends most of his time... Representative Capparelli, what did you do with 13  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 Representative McAuliffe this morning? And if Cap doesn't know where Roger is, then no one knows where Roger is. Please remove him."

"Representative Maureen Murphy? Oh, her chair was turned.

Speaker Her back was to me."

"Representative Representative Maureen Murphy? Is Maureen Murphy in the Chamber? Representative Maureen Murphy is almost always in her chair and I find her to be there this morning."

"Mr. Speaker?"

"Yes, Representative Lang?"

"This was an exercise. I'm just trying to make sure that the Majority Party came to the Floor and now that we see that they're all here, we're finished. Thank you."

"Representative Lang, there's one thing that you never have to worry about. The Republicans are always here, ready to do business and I think every time you verified us this year, you've always had to stop before you got below 60 so you might as well just forget even doing that because we're always here, ready to do business. On this question, there are 61 voting 'aye', 0 voting 'no', and 51 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 999."

"House Bill 999, a Bill for an Act amending the School Code. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"Return it to second. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 1000."

"House Bill 1000, a Bill for an Act amending the School Code. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"Return it to second. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 1089." 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"House Bill 1089, a Bill for an Act concerning the Radioactive Waste Storage Act. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from DuPage County, Representative Persico."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. House Bill 1089 is the Committee Bill for Energy and Environment. It is a Bill that we debated quite extensively yesterday when we put Floor Amendment #4 on it. I would like to take this opportunity to commend Representative Novak for all the help and input that he put into House Bill 1089 to get it in its final form. There were some concerns with the original draft from some of the Members and other people and we've answered all these concerns. I know of no opposition to this Bill and I ask for an 'affirmative' vote."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentlemen from Kankakee, Representative Novak."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates that he will. Please proceed."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative Persico, yesterday we were discussing some of the provisions of the Bill 'cause it contains a lot of other Bills that are, of course, wrapped into this Committee Bill. So we talked about the Geographic Information Council, which is one part. We talked about the asbestos abatement provisions, which is another part. We also talked about the Department of Nuclear Safety's language and their concerning radiation and human health. There was a question I had about that provision, before we proceed onto the other provisions and is there any idea what the cost to the Department will be 15  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 for additional authority for regulating radiation sources? Will they be using the existing personnel? Will they be charging any fees or anything like that?"

"Representative Persico."

"Thank you, Representative. This is a very difficult answer or...difficult question to answer. This is done on a cost-by-cost basis, but it is my understanding that they can do this work with their existing personnel and there are no fees involved in this."

"Representative Novak."

"Well, thank you, Representative Persico. So for the record here, there are no fees concerning this provision. Correct? Okay. Let's get on to the waste transfer station, the section 22.14. I know you talked about it a little bit yesterday and I wanted to ask you some questions, but who does this legislation apply to? Does it apply to material recovery facilities? Does it apply to existing businesses that have transfer stations or can you elaborate a little bit on that, Vince?"

"Representative Persico."

"Thank you, Representative. This applies only to existing garbage transfer stations that for any facility that was in existence prior to January 1st, 1988 and/or expanded before January 1st, 1990."

"Representative Novak."

"Okay, thank you, Representative. Will the owner or the operators of these garbage transfer stations have to apply to the State EPA for new operating permits?"

"Representative Persico."

"Could you repeat that question, Representative?"

"Representative Novak."

"Yes, Representative Persico. Will the owner or operators 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 of these waste transfer stations have to apply to the State EPA for new operating permits?"

"Representative Persico."

"Representative, first of all, this only applies to one transfer station and right now, their permits are already in place."

"Representative Novak."

"Thank you, Representative. Let's get on to the alternative fuels and the coal fired power plant section. You know when this Bill was in Committee, there was a very controversial initiative set forth by an industry that wanted to burn certain types of items in their coal fired utility furnaces in different parts of the state and we did allow the Bill to get out of Committee and I know you did a very good job in convincing the industry to extricate itself from these provisions. Just for the record again, there won't be any type of hazardous wastes burned in these facilities, such as creosote soaked telephone poles or railroad ties for that matter. Correct?"

"Representative Persico."

"Representative, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, there were some concerns in the original draft of this House Bill 1089 and with your help, we were able to get it out of Committee and hold it on Second Reading to answer some of those concerns, which was the burning of made possibly a toxic substances to produce electricity. So the answer to your question is no, they will not be able to do this."

"Representative Novak."

"Thank you, Representative Persico. Last question on this part, will this legislation reduce the use of Illinois coal? Is that one of the reasons why Illinois Power wants 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day this allowance April 20, 1995 to incinerate these alternative, not alternative fuels, but other items, we should say?"

"Representative Persico."

"No, it will not."

"Representative Novak."

"The part on the closure, post closure from municipal solid waste, what is the current law regarding the closure and post closure insurance for municipal landfills in Illinois?"

"Representative Persico."

"Representative, this language will reflect the current federal subtitled D legislation and the current languages that they had to have a company that was located in the State of Illinois."

"Representative Novak."

"Yes, thank you, Representative. Another last part of the section, I know yesterday was mentioned in debate about the AM Best Company that provides insurance ratings. Are there enough insurance companies in the state to provide this kinds of insurance besides always relying on AM Best? Does AM Best have the reputation as the best in the market?"

"Representative Persico."

"Representative, are you talking about the asbestos part of House Bill 1089?"

"Representative Granberg. Representative Granberg, I know you were just starting a question, please ask your question and then your time will be up. I'm sorry, not Representative Granberg, Representative Novak. Representative Novak, please go ahead and ask the question."

"You mentioned Representative Granberg, Mr. Speaker."

"He was the next guy after you and so you're 18  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 cutting into his time, so ask your question."

"I got a little confused. I would never want to confuse Representative Granberg. I mean, it's easy enough to confuse him, but I would never want to..."

"I'm going to let you dig yourself out of this Novak: hole." "Representative Persico, no, I was referring to, excuse me, I stand corrected, but on the closure, post closure provisions there, are there enough insurance companies in the state to provide this type of insurance under these changes with this subtitle D?"

"Representative Persico."

"Representative, as far as we know, the answer would be yes, but this also allows them the flexibility to get this kind of coverage at a later time."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Clinton to defend himself against those scurrilous remarks of the Gentleman from Kankakee. Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Please don't confuse me with Representative Novak. That is an insult. Would the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will. Please proceed."

"Representative Persico, I apologize if you discussed this last night, but I was out of the Chamber when you were discussing the asbestos abatement section. What exactly does your legislation do with the asbestos abatement? Does it change any standards or who may certify or conduct these types of removal activities?"

"Representative Persico."

"Representative, no, this doesn't change the standards, whatsoever. The only thing it allows is for they have to be licensed to go into commercial buildings. Right now, 19  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 it's just public buildings, like schools and so on."

"Representative Granberg."

"Representative, why the change, why the necessity for that type of Amendment?"

"Representative Persico."

"Representative, right now the Department of Public Health can only regulate public buildings and with this Legislation, they'll be allowed to also do it with commercial buildings."

"Representative Granberg."

"Well, who would currently have the jurisdiction in the regulation of commercial buildings?"

"Representative Persico."

"Currently, in the commercial buildings you're talking about? No one."

"Representative Granberg."

"So with the present law, Representative, no one has the authority or the jurisdiction to regulate the removal of asbestos in commercial buildings. Is that correct?"

"Representative Granberg."

"No, Representative Persico. That is correct.”

"Representative Granberg."

"One out of three is not bad, Mr. Speaker, thank you."

"We'll get there."

"So when you have a, Vince, when you have a building, hypothetically, that has an asbestos problem and does the law now call for its removal in any type of a manner or with any type of applicable standard?"

"Representative Persico."

"Representative, are you talking about like in public buildings, in schools or commercial buildings? No, right now, there's no regulation and it's up to that individual 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day contractor."

"Representative Granberg."

"So, Representative, if you had a commercial building and it was an old building or one that was built in the 1950's with a great deal of asbestos and it was vacant, there's no compelling interest for the owner of that property to remove the asbestos if they knew the fair market value was lower than what the cost would be for the removal of the asbestos. So there's nothing that would compel them to actually do the removal. The building would stand vacant, which could possibly increase the hazards to the public."

"Representative Persico."

"Not that we're aware of, Representative."

"Representative Granberg."

"So this would give the Department of Public Health, authority or jurisdiction to, not to actually regulate, to regulate the removal to say it has to be done in a certain fashion? Is that what the intent is?"

"Representative Persico."

"Representative, this sets up the licensing procedure for contractors to go into commercial buildings."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Representative. That's why I was curious, but I didn't know how this works. So if you have a commercial building, have a commercial lender and they want to remove the asbestos, then the contractor would now pay a fee to the Department of Public Health? Just walk through an instance on how this would actually work, if you don't mind."

"Representative Persico."

"Right now, Representative, under the law, this Bill, 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 they would apply for, they would get a rating from AM Best and then they would be under the Department of Public Health list in order to, you know, for an application and from this they can than apply to remove the asbestos from the commercial building."

"Representative Granberg with 14 seconds."

"Thank you, Representative, I appreciate the time you've taken this matter because, obviously, you know the asbestos issue is one that's very important, not only to public buildings, but to commercial ..."

"Representative Granberg, please bring your remarks to a conclusion."

"So, Representative, I appreciate the time you've taken because it is important that we all understand what can happen and one last question when I close. It's my understanding you said earlier that there was no opposition. I thought the Environmental Council and Waste Management had some concerns or some issues with this legislation. Could you please explain if those issues have been corrected or dealt with and if they have removed all opposition to your Bill as amended? Thank you."

"Representative Persico for the answer."

"Yeah, Representative, Amendment #4, which we placed on the Bill yesterday on the House Floor answered those concerns and from what I understand, there's no opposition to this Bill in it's current form."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Grundy, Representative Spangler. Representative Spangler?"

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The motion is for the previous question. All in favor will vote 'aye', say 'aye'; all opposed will say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. 22  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 The previous question is moved. Representative Persico to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Again, this Bill was debated very thoroughly yesterday and today. I commend Representative Novak for all his help on House Bill 1089 and I ask for an 'affirmative' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1089 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 106 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'no', and 7 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 1093."

"House Bill 1093, a Bill for an Act amending the Wildlife Code. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Will, Representative Wennlund."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. What this Bill does is, it's a initiative of the Department of Conservation and what it does is it provides for participation by the State of Illinois in a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services' new program called the National Migratory Bird Harvest Information Program and what it's purpose is to improve the management of the whole nation's migratory bird populations and to preserve hunting opportunities in the future. It will require hunters of migratory waterfowl, such as geese and ducks and dove and coot and those type of migratory waterfowl, SO that participants hunting that type of fowl will register with the Department and will be sampled with respect to their 23  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 successes and it'll help the Department of Conservation to determine where the bird populations are and they'll be able to set their quotas for the various zones throughout the state. Second part of the Bill which was amended into it yesterday provides for the extension of some hunting seasons with respect to the harvest of badgers from November 1 to February 15th and it expands the framework for the Spring turkey season from March 1 to May 31, instead of April 1 to May 15th. So it extends it another month and a half. It also expands the season for squirrel harvesting to May 1 through February 28th. Currently, it's June 1 to December 31 and that gets the way of upland game season, SO it makes good sense to change that. It also expands the framework for hunting small game by changing the legal hunting hours each day, a half hour before and half hour after sunset. Currently, it's sunrise to sunset and that's what it does. The main part of the Bill was required by the Federal Government and the State of Illinois will stand to lose funds to Department of Conservation, which are federal funds, unless we indeed participate in the program, which is expected to kick in in 1996 and that's the nature."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the great hunter from Rock Island, Representative Brunsvold."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Gentleman a question, but before I do..."

"He indicates he will yield."

"I would like to ask the Chair if it recalls whether Representative McGuire's Bill that had to do with printing with just black ink would affect the Rockford flyer here that looks awful colorful to me. It looks very expensive, 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 in fact, very nice, but does McGuire's Bill would affect local government in the City of Rockford?"

"Well, you know those hunters have a lot of money to spend on those kinds of things, Representative Brunsvold. The Gentleman says that he will yield to your questions, if you have one."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm a cosponsor of this Bill and just to make sure that we have everything right here on the hunting seasons. Larry, as you have said, this just gives the Department of Conservation the authority to expand or not expand. Is that correct?"

"Representative Wennlund."

"It gives the Department the authority to expand the hunting seasons to the dates I suggested. It does not mandate it or put it into state law. It allows the Department the ability to manage the harvest in accordance with what it feels is adequate and appropriate. For instance, if by expanding the squirrel season, they'll be able to adjust it so that it doesn't run into the upland game season in the fall."

"Representative Brunsvold."

"Was this a request of Brent Manning, the Director, and the Department of Conservation? Excuse me. Let me repeat that. Was this a request of the Department of Conservation?"

"Representative Wennlund's having a hard time hearing because there's all sorts of gaming noises coming from right around him. So would the turkeys in Representative Black's chair, please remove themselves? Representative Wennlund."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Representative Brunsvold, yes, this is entirely an initiative of the 25  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 Department of Conservation. One part of it indeed was prompted by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to make sure that migratory waterfowl, particularly geese in Representative Woolard's district are well managed and so that the flocks will. Speaking of, this is not turkey season we're talking about, but the turkey over here to my left impedes my hearing, but, yes, it's entirely an initiative of the Department of Conservation, part of which was done at the request of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service."

"Representative Brunsvold."

"It appears, Representative, that all the turkeys are not in the woods this morning."

"Was that a question, Representative Brunsvold, or a statement?"

"That was kind of a statement. I'm going to my next question. Representative Wennlund, I talked a little bit this morning with Roger Frazier, who's a CPO and he had a little concern about the early and the late part of the hunting provisions, a half hour before sunrise and a half hour after sunrise. Can you kind of explain that so everybody on the Floor would know what the Department of Conservation has maybe intended to do here or not do here?"

"Representative Wennlund."

"Thank you very much. The small game hunting hours in many states, such as Nebraska, Kansas, North Dakota, and I know you're familiar with North Dakota, Wisconsin, Texas, Tennessee, Michigan, Louisiana are more liberal than Illinois and the Department feels that by allowing the hunting of squirrels, doves, snipe, crow, rail, woodcock, and woodchuck, during the time of the day when these species are more active will provide more hunting 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 opportunities without being detrimental to the wildlife populations or compromise safety. So it appears that the Department feels and it's biologists feel that a half an hour before sunrise and even a half an hour after sunrise are those periods of the day when these particular game are more active and it will give hunters in Illinois more opportunities."

"Representative Brunsvold."

"Thank you, Representative Wennlund. It sounds like a good Bill to me."

"Representative Wennlund?"

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. For fear that the migratory fowl that is to my left will continue, I believe we've accurately debated the Bill and further debate will only exacerbate the situation here in the third row."

"I understand that, but we do have other folks who wish to ask questions. I'm sorry, this Bill was on short debate, so Representative Wennlund, it is your turn to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In closing, the wildlife in the third row here is getting increasingly more wild and further debate will only exacerbate the situation, so I ask for your positive vote."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1093 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 106 voting 'aye, 0 voting 'nay', and 6 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. I 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 note, also, that the turkey sitting to the left of Representative Wennlund, flew the coop as soon as the Bill passed. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 1200."

"House Bill 1200, a Bill for an Act concerning Public Aid. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Kubik."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 1200 is a very simple Bill. What it does is it prohibits the cashing of a Public Aid check at a race track, an OTB parlor, or a riverboat gambling operation. We together with Amendment #2, which Representative Lang suggested, which makes sure that the Bill deals with only the issue of the check, I think that this is a good Bill. The genesis of this Bill, essentially is, that I found out that there is no prohibition against this practice at race tracks. There is a prohibition against the practice at riverboats, but not at race tracks and I think quite honestly that if one is receiving a public assistance check, that check is better used for food and clothing and rent, et cetera, rather than being cashed at a race track facility. Now, let me say I'm under no allusion that if somebody wants to cash a check elsewhere and they want to spend that money at a race track or a gambling facility, we cannot stop them, but I don't think that a state sanctioned facility should accept these sorts of checks and that's essentially what the Bill does. I'd be happy to respond to any questions and would appreciate your support."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Kenner."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise on a point of personal 28  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 privilege. House Bill 1089, I inadvertently voted 'no' and I would like the record to reflect that I vote 'present'."

"The record will SO reflect. Thank you, Representative Kenner."

"Thank you."

"There being no discussion, Representative Kubik to close. I'm sorry, there was not. Okay, that was an accident. I'm sorry, Representative Kubik, I looked down, there were no lights flashing on the board. It was an accident and we're going to correct that by going to the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will. Please proceed."

"Representative, has the Racing Board been contacted in regards to this? If so, what has been their position on this?"

"Representative Kubik."

"Their position is that they support, they have no objection to the Bill. I've had conversations, both with the Gaming Board and the Racing Board. The Gaming Board acknowledges that they have a regulation which prohibits this practice. The Racing Board does not and so I thought, there should be no question in anybody's mind. The Racing Board has no objection and they say this will have no fiscal impact on them either."

"Representative Dart."

"Thank you. Is there a reason why they can't do this by regulation as they've done for riverboats?"

"Representative Kubik."

"I would think that they probably could do this by regulation, but I, you know, with the constant expansion 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 gambling, I felt that it was important that we be on record and that the law be very clear for all sorts of gambling facilities."

"Representative Dart."

"What is the enforcement mechanism for this? What are they going to be able to do at the different tracks and the like to ensure this occurs and I guess, if you have that information, I'd appreciate it, but what do they do in regards to at the riverboats right now, as well, to enforce this? I'd be interested."

"Representative Kubik."

"In my discussions with the Racing Board and the Gaming Board, it's my understanding if a licensee is in violation of either a regulation or a law that we pass, the potential for the loss of their license is there, so the enforcement is that they potentially can lose their license."

"Representative Dart."

"Do they actively have people, though, that are out there trying to enforce this or this just something where if they stumble across it, they'll enforce it?"

"Representative Kubik."

"I don't think that we would have people actually, you know, out there looking at it. I think that it's my understanding, Representative, that there's, there are audits that take place and there are investigations by the state police on an ongoing basis and I think if they see some irregularities, that's when this sort of infraction would be noticed."

"Representative Dart."

"How long has this ban been in effect for the riverboats?"

"Representative Kubik."

"I don't know. I just know that it's there, but I don't 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day know how long."

"Representative Dart."

"The reason I was asking that was I was trying to get an idea of how many instances they've had where this law has been violated on riverboats. If you know the answer to that or more importantly, what is the, how often does this occur presently right now? I mean, we usually try to remedy a problem that exists right now and I understand it and I agree with you what you're trying to do here, but I'm trying to understand the magnitude, if there is a great problem we're trying to address here. So, if you could inform me of whether or not they have had a great deal of enforcement on the riverboats and if not, what is the problem that they're having at the race tracks now?"

"Representative Kubik."

"I am not aware of the magnitude of the problem, Representative, in terms of numbers and what not. I will say that I have had conversations with individuals who worked at race tracks who handle money and they've indicated to me that, you know, from time to time, somebody will come in with a public assistance check and they will cash it. How widespread that practice is, I do not know."

"Representative Dart."

"Do they get this information by checking the endorsement on the checks and the like? Is that how they're attempting to enforce this?"

"Representative Kubik."

"I don't know. I mean, I know that the checks are cashed, but I don't know the manner in which they're cashed."

"Representative Dart."

"Is there going to be any, this Bill does not affect obviously, but is there a potential dealing with social 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 security checks that we're gonna attempt to address those being cashed at riverboats and the like?"

"Representative Kubik."

"It does not impact social security checks. It just impacts those checks which are, as the language reads, representing financial aid paid under the Illinois Public Aid Code."

"Representative Dart."

"Thank you very much."

"There being no further discussion, Representative Kubik to close."

"I would just urge adoption of the Bill. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1200 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 109 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'no', and 6 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 1320."

"House Bill 1320, a Bill for an Act amending the Hospice Program Licensing Act. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Kubik."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 1320 is a Bill which I'm very, very happy to bring before this Assembly. This Bill is an Amendment to the Hospice Licensing Act and it would allow the licensing of hospice residences. These residences, of 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 course, would be for terminally ill persons who cannot remain at home or do not have a home and who would like to receive hospice services in a home like environment. Now, what the Bill does is it defines a hospice residence. It limits the number of people living in a hospice to 16. It would require the Department of Public Health to establish the standards for hospice residences and it requires that a license for hospice must own or operate the residence and provide hospice services. We have added an Amendment to the Bill, at the Committee's request, limiting this program to 12 licenses over the next two years. The feeling was that it was necessary to look at this program and see what the success or perhaps the problems are before we expand it beyond 12. This is a Bill. I don't know how many of you have had family members or friends who have taken advantage of hospice, hospice services, but I've had two members of my family who have gone through this program. It is a very dignified and a very good program for those who are terminally ill. So I would be happy to respond to any questions and would appreciate your support of House Bill 1320."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Schakowsky."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates that he will. Please proceed."

"Representative, I do want to congratulate you on this legislation. I think this does fill a gap that has been needed and a need that's been felt by many families in the state, but I would like to ask you a few questions about it. First of all, what was the genesis of the Amendment that limited the number of hospices that may be licensed in Illinois?" 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Kubik."

"Representative, when I was in Committee, there was some discussion about, there was some concerns raised about this program in terms of opening it up too widely. There was a feeling that perhaps maybe we ought to have a limited program to see how these hospice residences proceed. As you well know, a hospice program provides a different environment than you would in a nursing home or a hospital, so there were some concerns raised. Some advocacy groups and the Department of Public Health came up with an Amendment which limited it to six residences next year and six the following and then it would, as I recall, it has a sunset that will look at the program the following year to see whether we should proceed with more, opening it up to more licenses."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"My understanding is that the concerns were raised by the nursing home industry and perhaps it would be helpful to describe the important ways in which or some of them anyway, that hospice services are different from nursing home services."

"Representative Kubik."

"Representative, why don't I, probably, let me read a paragraph to you. Maybe this will help. Hospice programs currently, strike that. Hospice programs currently have no place to serve people who want to remain in a home like environment, but cannot. For example, a terminally ill senior citizen whose spouse is too ill to care for him, people who live alone, a parent who lives with an adult child who works, persons who are homeless, this Bill would fill that gap. Now, as you know, in a hospice program, people are terminally ill. There are no efforts to try to 34  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 prolong life. It is a dignified way to make someone comfortable, surround them in their final days with care and a limited amount of medical attention. So, it's more on the comfort, whereas a nursing home is an attempt to try to make people well."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Are the licensure standards any different from those for nursing homes or, I guess a question, how are they different from nursing home standards?"

"Representative Kubik."

"Well, Representative, the Department of Public Health is going to have to for these residences is going to have to promulgate some of those rules, but let me give you one instance that's different. In a hospice residence, a family member would be able to stay with that person who is dying, on a full time basis. You can't do that in a nursing home. A family member would be able to take the terminally ill person out to the store or to shopping or for lunch or something like that. You can't do that in a nursing home. So there is some, it's a different philosophy underlying the program."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"To the Bill. I would certainly urge all of those, those people who have had loved ones who have had terminal illnesses and those who have not to vote favorably for this Bill that creates new hospice residences in Illinois and provides for their inspection."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will. Please proceed."

"First of all, Representative Kubik, I want to thank 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 you for I know you've been dealing with this issue for a long time and I have had a family member. We've utilized hospice and in fact, I used to be on the Hospice Board in my area. So, I know how valuable they are and a very much needed function, but I really wasn't aware, Jack, until you mentioned it, about the need for hospice residences themselves. So, it's my understanding that you have a provision for 16 such facilities or six facilities that would be through licensed by the Department of Public Health throughout the state. If the need, if they would feel the need would increase, will they have the flexibility to increase the number of those facilities?"

"Representative Kubik."

"First of all, Representative Granberg, next year we will allow for six licenses. The following year, another six. So, there would be 12 altogether. They would be limited. If there was a great need, more than six, for example, next year, we would have to change the law, but I think the reason we're doing this is because we wanted to make sure that as my comment with Representative Schakowsky, this is a different philosophy, as you know, and I think it's important that, that be understood in the licensing process and everything else. So, I think we wanted to make it a more gradual program because of that."

"Representative Granberg."

"Jack, I assume that all the different hospice organizations, we have Southern Illinois Hospice, we have all these different ones, are all in agreement with your licensing proposal?"

"Representative Kubik."

"Yes, they are."

"Representative Granberg." 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"And there is certainly no opposition to this and they're very satisfied dealing with the Department of Public Health?"

"Representative Kubik."

"Representative, it's my understanding that there are some individuals in the nursing home industry that are opposed. So, it is not an opposition free Bill, but there are some who are in the nursing home industry who are opposed."

"Representative Granberg."

"Jack, I think I can speculate on why that would be the case. Are there individual nursing homes that are in opposition or is it one of the nursing home representatives or groups that are in Springfield, a different type of nursing home, or just individuals?"

"Representative Kubik."

"What we have is ... who are opponents are the Illinois Health Care Association, the Illinois Citizens for Better Care. However, I would like to say that the Illinois Citizens for Better Care support the Amendment which we have placed on the Bill. So, while it may not eliminate all of their opposition, I think that this makes it a better Bill for them and the Life Services Network of Illinois, but there aren't individual nursing homes that are opposed, just some associations."

"Representative Granberg."

"Jack, as you know, there are different types of nursing homes and they're represented by different groups in Springfield. So, I just wanted to make sure that opposition wasn't the industry as a whole or their concerns were being addressed. So, Representative Kubik, I appreciate the time in answering these questions and to the Bill, Mr. Speaker." 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"To the Bill." April 20, 1995

"I, too, rise in support of House Bill 1320. Representative Kubik has done an outstanding job working on this issue. It's been before us in some form the last few years and I know that Representative Kubik has tried to deal with all the impacted groups. He's worked very hard with the hospice licensing organizations and he's tried to ameliorate all their concerns and I believe this legislation is the best that can be done at this point in time and if it does not address the long term problems of the hospice organizations, I believe that Representative Kubik will come back to this Body and seek to address those problems in the future. So, with that, I intend to vote 'aye' and I encourage all Members to do so as well."

"Further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Grundy, Representative Spangler."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The question is, 'Shall the previous question be moved?' All those in favor say 'aye'; all those opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the previous question is moved. Representative Kubik to close."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker and in closing, I guess I'm getting a lot of credit for this Bill. I want to tell you that Representative Currie has worked extremely hard on this issue over the years and we owe a debt of gratitude to her as well. She has been in the forefront on this issue as well. So, there have been a lot, Representative Currie, Representative Ronen, and many others, so I want to thank all of them for their help. In closing, all I can say is that this Bill fits a need or fills a need that is very important in our state. As I indicated, I've had two 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 family members who've gone through this program and in a very difficult time in one's life, this is the best program that I've seen in terms of allowing someone to die with dignity and with some compassion. So, I appreciate your support and your favorable consideration of House Bill 1320."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1320 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 112 'ayes', 0 'noes', and 3 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from DuPage, Speaker Daniels."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman of the House. I'm very pleased today to welcome social studies teacher, Naomi Poltrac and a group from Bryan Junior High School in Elmhurst to the House Chamber today. I'm proud to announce that Naomi is this year's recipient of the Daughters of the American Revolution State Teacher of the Year award for history instructors. Based on recommendations from administrators, other teachers, and former students, Naomi was chosen for this prestigious honor. Through hard work and excellence in teaching method, daily, monthly, and yearly, students taught by Naomi Poltrac advanced to high school, more prepared for that experience and more prepared for the world. For her dedication, we are proud and fortunate to have a teacher of her caliber, working in Illinois' public school system. I applaud the efforts of Naomi Poltrac and ask the Members of this Body to acknowledge her academic achievements and 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 accomplishments with the young people of our state. Naomi lives in Elmhurst. She teaches at Bryan Junior High School and that area is represented by Representative Jim Durkin, Representative Bob Biggins, and myself, and Naomi Poltrac and students from Bryan Junior High School, thank you for coming to Springfield and congratulations to Naomi."

"The House will continue on Third Readings. Representative Wojcik in the Chair."

"Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 1644."

"House Bill 1644, a Bill for an Act amending the Counties Code. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Jones." Jones, J: "Thank you, Madam Chairman and Members of the General Assembly. I rise before you to introduce House Bill 1644. This amends the County Codes, prohibits the Department of Revenue from collecting a Home Rule County Retailers Occupational Tax and a Home Rule County Service Occupational Tax. This Bill deletes the provisions in the Counties Codes that requires the Department of Revenue to collect the Home Rule County Sales Tax, stipulates that the Department shall make a final distribution of all Home Rule County Sales Tax receipts, collected by the department as soon as possible after the effective date of this Bill. I ask for a favorable vote on this...in this Bill and I would ascertain in answering questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart is recognized."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"What counties does this affect?"

"Representative Jones." Jones, J: "Cook County." 40  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Dart." April 20, 1995

"What...what other counties have...are there other counties that are...have this done?"

"Representative Jones." Jones, J: "This is the only county in the state, Cook County, is that we do this service for."

"Representative Dart."

"Do you know...were you...aren't there about 66 some taxes collected by the Department of Revenue right now?"

"Representative Jones." Jones, J: "Approximately."

"Representative Dart."

"No, let's try exactly, Representative. There are quite a few other counties that have their taxes collected by, but you have taken upon yourself to pick on Cook County. Why is it that you have decided that you're going after Cook County?"

"Representative Jones." Jones, J: "It's the only county, Representative, that has a Home Rule Sales Tax."

"Representative Dart."

"Are...are you aware that there had been some deal back in 1988 that this was part of the deal that this would be collected in this manner?"

"Representative Jones." Jones, J: "Yes, it has been collected by the state since that time."

"Representative Dart."

"Well, this is something that is...unfortunately something I'm not getting surprised on in this Chamber anymore. This was a commitment that had been made back in 1988 but few people's words are good around this place anymore anyway, 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day so why should I not be surprised? April 20, 1995 To the Bill. This is another slap at Cook County in Chicago area. We...here we have Representative who isn't within a cannon shot of Cook County going after Cook County for no reason. This is outrageous. This is yet another broken promise, broken commitment. Why am I not surprised, Representative? Why am I not surprised at all? You should be ashamed of yourself. This is outrageous, going right after a deal that was struck, a commitment that was made and you're going ahead and breaking that. Representative, congratulations, another person here breaking commitments. Good Job."

"Representative Jones." Jones, J: "Thank you."

"Any further debate? The Lady from Cook, Representative Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker and Members of the House. I too, rise in opposition to this Bill. There was an agreement when we did sales tax reform that the state, which is in the business of collecting these kinds of taxes would collect the Home Rule Tax imposed by the County of Cook. The Members may be interested to know that this is not a costly proposition for the Department of Revenue. The Department of Revenue gets to keep a collection fee SO that, in fact, it's costing the state taxpayers nothing for the department to collect this money for the County of Cook. What it does do is make sure because the departments in that business, and the County of Cook is not. What does happen is that...that the tax is collected fairly and efficiently and were the county to go into the business at this kind of tax collection. I think there are serious questions about whether it could do so in an efficient, in 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 an even handed and in a fair fashion. This Bill solves a problem that doesn't exist. There is no problem that this Bill is meant to respond to. This is a punitive hostile action. I suppose the...the reason for it's introduction is that people can pretend to the folks back home that they're saving the Department of Revenue money that isn't accurate. This looks as if it's a great press release Bill, but it sure does represent lousy public policy. Those who care about good public policy should vote 'no'."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Murphy." Murphy, M: "Yes. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will." Murphy, M: "For...for the record, I'm not sure how many people were paying attention but, Representative, this is a local government control idea, is it not?"

"Representative Jones." Jones, J: "Yes, it is, Representative."

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, M: "Representative, do we collect as you stated, I believe people should understand, we collect the State of Illinois no other taxes for 101 other counties?"

"Representative Jones." Jones, J: "That is correct."

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, M: "Does...is there an estimate once again of how much we are...are taking on the administrative costs for the City of Chicago and the County of Cook in a combination? The state is...is administering that which other counties must pay for. So, all the citizens of Illinois are paying an administrative cost. Is there any kind of estimate on that at this time?"

"Representative Jones." 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day Jones, J: April 20, 1995 "Representative, could you repeat it again? I couldn't hear you."

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, M: "To the Bill. With regard to local control of home rule and peoples words being what they were. I wasn't here in 1988, Representative Jones was not here in 1988, and every time we have a new General Assembly, a new city council we go to the negotiating table. When other local units of government, some small villages lost their share of the surtax dollars, the Mayor of the City of Chicago was there fighting for...with them saying... fighting for them saying we deserve to have this. Fighting against the Governor saying, why should the state take over the surtax? But you know what happened? When the City of Chicago left the bargaining table that year, they walked away with a better bargain than some small villages or towns within Cook County. So, once again, the whole State of Illinois in downstate suburban Cook. Downstate whether you're a Democrat or Republican, your counties have to pay their own administrative fees to collect their taxes, but once again we had a different set of rules for Cook County and the City of Chicago. I commend Representative Jones for making Cook County responsible for the collection of their own taxes, and I urge a 'yes' vote on this. Thank you."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Effingham, Representative Hartke."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Jones, now I'm going to ask you some questions that you did not answer to Representative Murphy. What does this cost the Department of Revenue to collect 44  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 this tax for the City of Chicago?"

"Representative Jones." Jones, J: "Representative Hartke, we don't have an exact figure but there is some...some administrative costs to collecting it and...and paying it back to the City of Chicago."

"Representative Hartke."

"Well, I don't have any problem with that answer that you just gave. What does the Department of Revenue receive for collecting those taxes for the City of Chicago? What do they receive?"

"Representative Jones." Jones, J: "Representative, there may be some reimbursement, we're not sure the exact..."

"Representative Hartke."

"Well, Representative Jones, I think when you studied this situation out to...to figure out what it's costing the State of Illinois, what you really can't put your finger on and you really don't know what kind of money the State of Illinois is receiving for collecting the revenues from the local imposed sales tax in Cook County. I haven't studied your legislation, and I didn't introduce the legislation, but I do know that the Department of Revenue receives 2% of the revenues that they collect. Now, if we eliminate that possibility, of the 2% the Department of Revenue that they collect we would eliminate some of the cost to the State of Illinois. But, I think the revenues outweigh the administrative cost. However, what you're doing is now requiring the Department of Revenue in the City of Chicago in the County of Cook, to now reduplicate all those forms and you're causing a problem for small business who must now report this on a separate form with a separate mailing to the City of Chicago, they would have to have their own 45  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 agents to make sure that everyone is correct. You're being very punitive to the City of Chicago for no reason at all. Representative Murphy complains about we doing this for the City of Chicago in the County of Cook. I want to ask you, will you also now introduce companion legislation that says we are not going to collect the gas tax revenues for a locally imposed gas tax revenues for DuPage County? We also in the State of Illinois and the Department of Revenue collect those taxes. I think if you're going to be fair and you're going to go after someone, we ought to go after everybody. Now, just think about this a minute. Mt. Vernon, Illinois your home town is a home rule unit, correct?"

"Representative..."

"He's shaking his head yes, I'll take that. Now, if at some point in time you imposed a local gas tax, which you can do. If you imposed a local sales tax, which you can do, would you then set up the Department of Revenue for the City of Mt. Vernon and then be required to hire all kinds of additional people to collect that sales tax or that gas tax in your city? You would have to do that, but it would be very simple...very simple for the Illinois Department of Revenue to do that, because those funds are now put in there and their...just an X can be put in the box, and those revenues can be sent back to Mt. Vernon. It would probably cost you more to set up that locally than you're going to collect because I know that you would impose a very small tax. I think what you're doing is being outlandish just...just plain punitive to the City of Chicago. You're being rationary and it's a very good news release. John O. Jones goes against Chicago, but let me tell you something, John. I think it's phony. I think 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 it's as phony as can be. You're really not helping anybody, what you're doing is hurting the City of Chicago."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Jones, I thought I heard this correctly, but I just want to make sure. The Department of Revenue collects taxes for 66 different units currently. Is that correct?"

"Representative Jones." Jones, J: "Representative Granberg, I'm going to take this Bill out of the record for the time being."

"Representative Leitch in the Chair." "Representative Leitch in the Chair. About three weeks ago, we were fortunate to have with us the members of the Manual High School Basketball Team which won the back to back state championships. Today, we're very fortunate to have with us from Peoria, the Peoria Richwood's Scholastic Bowl Champions, who in the final round defeated Newtrier High School and I'd like to welcome them to the Chamber. They're champions in every way. Their basketball team wasn't bad either. It was 26 and 4, but certainly couldn't get past Manual. Members of the team are Ashcock Babu, Lindsay Glaser, Michael Su, Gregory Johnson, Ram Kishenmorthe, who couldn't be with us today, Mike Schwabacher, Bob Shimmon, Askash Suricka, and Sara Finsen. With them are their coaches, Cathy Brooksmiller and Sara Drew, Richwood's principal, Jeanie Miller and District 150 Peoria School Board President, Linda Daley. Please join me in welcoming the team to the Chamber and for their outstanding academic achievement. Representative Wojcik in 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day the Chair."

April 20, 1995 "Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 865."

"House Bill 865, a Bill for an Act that amends the Code of Criminal Procedure of 1963. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative John Turner." Turner, J.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House Bill 865 amends the Code of Criminal Procedure. The Bill requires the Supreme Court to establish unified rules of procedure to be followed by the trial courts and the appellate courts in death penalty cases. I'll be glad answer any questions." to

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Hoffman is recognized."

"Yes, I'm joined by the requisite number of individuals. I would like to take this off of Short Debate. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"It's my understanding that Tom Johnson or Representative Johnson, the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, used to be a Sponsor of this. Is the Board correct or has this been changed or why are you now sponsoring it, Representative? Or was this given to you as a gift or did you take this Representative Johnson?" over protest from

"Representative Turner." Turner, J: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm not sure exactly what you're driving at, Representative Hoffman, but as you know, Representative Johnson is a very beneficent person and he indeed did give me this Bill and I'm honored to have the opportunity to present it this morning." 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

April 20, 1995 "Representative Hoffman."

"With regard to, this is regarding death penalty proceedings and would direct the Supreme Court to establish by rules a series of check lists to be used by a trial court and lawyers and all death penalty cases. The idea of this legislation to move forward death penalty cases SO that the cases are then carried out in a swift and timely fashion as opposed to the years and years of endless appeals?"

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "Yes, Representative Hoffman, that is exactly what this Bill is intended to do."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Would this checklist then be provided to defense attorneys as well as prosecutors?"

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "Yes, Representative Hoffman, the trial court would provide the check list, which would be, of course, prepared by the Supreme Court and it would be given to trial counsel at the trial level, both for the prosecution and defense."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Now, really, Representative, couldn't the supreme court already do this without Legislation? I would be an advocate of them. I think they should have done it years ago, but they by rule have the ability to pass rules that govern the court system and govern the criminal procedure in this state. They already could do this, couldn't they?"

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "Yes, the Supreme Court does have that power."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Have you discussed anything with the Supreme Court as to why they have not done this?" 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Turner." April 20, 1995 Turner, J.: "I, personally, have not. There was a judicial note filed on this particular matter, though."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Well, I guess the question is if they can do it, although the legislation is well intended and I support it, if they can do it, why do we need a Bill? Why don't we just talk to them about doing it already, have them do it and then we wouldn't have to have this legislation? Has Representative Johnson talked with them?"

"Representative Turner."

"Representative Johnson, I don't believe has talked with them. Although the judicial note I see was written to him so he certainly has communicated with him in writing."

"Representative Hoffman."

"The checklist that would be provided here, wouldn't this really just give heads up to the defense or could this potentially give heads up to defense attorneys and say, hey, as a disincentive to comply with this, you have no incentive to comply with this check list. Obviously, you have to zealously represent your client. If you're defending him, you would rather see him not go to death. Wouldn't this just really set out a road map of how the prosecution is going to proceed in these cases and therefore, give the defense attorney an advantage to attempt to circumvent the check list in order to ensure that the death penalty is not carried out?"

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "I don't believe that, that would occur, Representative Hoffman. I think that for the most part, attorneys do zealously represent their clients, whether their client happens to be the people of the State of 50  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 Illinois or a particular defendant and I believe that actually the check list will assist both the prosecution, defense counsel, and the trial court so it should not have the adverse affect that you just described."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Well, I would just like to commend Chairman Johnson for putting this forward. It's, I guess, kind of fortunate he didn't have the opportunity to put it forward today, but I do commend."

"Representative, bring your remarks to a close, please."

"Madam Speaker, I knew you'd let me do that since I'm trying to be nice and complimentary here."

"You're always nice."

"Thank you very much. But I would like to commend Representative Johnson, as well as Representative Turner, on this. I think that it is something that needs to be done. I wish the Supreme Court could do this on its own. I think they could do it on its own. They have that ability. Still, I guess if we can help them in any way, we should do that. With that, I would urge anybody on this side of the aisle, who like me, believes that we need to do something in order to move forward the prosecution and the carrying out of these sentences to ensure that the death penalty is truly a deterrent, to vote in favor of this Legislation."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Johnson is recognized." Johnson, Tom: "I rise in strong support of this Bill, as Representative Hoffman used my name in debate here and I appreciate the comments that he made. They shut me off. This Bill is one of a couple Republican initiatives that, 51  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 in fact, will hopefully expedite the now interminable processes of appeals, especially as it relates to death sentences. Now, Representative on the other side using my name in debate wondered why I was not Sponsor of this anymore. I want it made very plain to this Chamber that this Bill is a Republican initiative. Since I was Chairman of the Committee, the Bill was put in my name. The Republican side of this aisle, Representative Turner and everybody else worked very hard on this piece of legislation, as well as another one that hopefully will be presented later and I refuse to take total credit for this, but this was a group process and I believe our side of the aisle is to be commended for moving this type of legislation forward because it's long overdue, but I do appreciate the comments of my colleague on the other side of the aisle."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Washington, Representative Deering is recognized."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, just in a ball park sense, how long would a normal appeal process take today if an individual was convicted on a murder and received a death penalty?"

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "Representative, I believe from conviction to the carrying out of the sentence, it runs approximately 12 years and that includes, of course, all the habeas corpus proceedings and appeals of those as well."

"Representative Deering."

"Is there any guidelines in your legislation that will direct the Supreme Court that they must issue guidelines that will shorten the appeal process or are we going to 52  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 leave it up to their discretion?"

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "Representative, we have not spelled out specific guidelines to the Supreme Court that they must develop rules which will necessarily shorten the procedure. Hopefully though, they will be aware of the legislative history in as much as we're discussing it right now on the House floor that our idea is to shorten the appeals process. I believe that the supreme court is concerned about that as we are. However, I don't think it would be proper for the Legislature to put into this piece of legislation, the specific rules which will, in effect, make the period shorter. I think that we would be overstepping our bounds. So the idea is for the Supreme Court to develop their own rules with our request through this Legislation. We have not given them, however, the substance of what those rules would be."

"Representative Deering."

"Well, Representative, I commend you on this piece of legislation. As the previous speaker had said, I think this is long overdue. It should have been done decades ago. It's also my understanding that, you know, this is gonna take some time and even with the supreme court working on it by the time it goes through the legislative process. It's my understanding that we could also quicken or expedite the appeals process, if we would put more money in the appellate defenders line items, so we can run these appeals quicker, maybe get some of these people off of death row or whatever that's sitting working the appeal process. You think it's possible that Members on your side of the aisle in the appropriations process would put more money or attempt to put more money in the appellate 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 defender's line item in the budget, so while the Supreme Court is working on these guidelines, we can already start to expedite this process?"

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "Well, Representative, I don't want to speak for my colleagues over here, but I know that, that is a very legitimate concern and it's one that we'll be addressing and looking at very closely."

"Representative Deering."

"To the Bill, Madam Speaker. As I said, I commend this Sponsor's work and all the Sponsors that worked on this piece of legislation. I believe, as do many citizens in the State of Illinois, that the judicial system does need some cleaning up and we as taxpayers are getting tired of supporting these people in country club settings and it's time to move on and get along with business."

"Any further discussion? Cook, Representative Dart."

The Gentleman from Dart: "Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield please?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, are there other states that are using this?"

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "Yes, the peach state, Georgia."

"Representative Dart."

"You are quite a peach, too, Representative. What has been their experience with this? Has this hurried things up? Has it made a dramatic impact, one way or the other? What's been the results of their use of it? How long have they been using it?"

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "It's my understanding, Representative, that is a 54  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 very good question, that it was instituted in 1989, but we do not have data at this point where it has been studied, which I could relate to you to answer your question specifically. I apologize."

"Representative Dart."

"More importantly, I guess then, has there been any challenges both either constitutionally or for procedural reasons based on this in that state?"

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "I'm advised, Representative, that the silver state, Nevada, also has this piece of legislation and that it was challenged there and the challenge to it was unsuccessful. It was deemed to be Constitutional, but I don't believe Georgia has had a similar challenge."

"Representative Dart."

"As far as you're aware of for the Nevada case, have the appeals in regards to that issue, has that been exhausted so that it's a done deal or is it in intermediary appeals stage? I'm just trying to figure out if whether this has risen up to the level where the U.S. Supreme Court or Nevada Supreme Court have put their ... around there saying, this clears all Constitutional muster, whether it's gone through an intermedial appeal and we're still sort of feeling our way through on this one."

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "Representative, again I'm unable to answer your question specifically. To my knowledge, the U.S. Supreme Court has not addressed this question."

"Representative Dart."

"And I guess maybe, my concern, maybe this ... was brought up in their Supreme Court, is whether or not you can force a defense attorney to try a case in a certain way or go 55  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATI TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 through certain methods of trying their case. Will there not be arguments that you cannot legislate how a defendant will try their case and what they're mandated to do?"

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "I think clearly, Representative Dart, that we cannot mandate to defense council or for that matter to the prosecutor, how to try their cases, but I don't believe presenting a check list to them by the trial court and going down it, just to ascertain whether procedurally they have followed the check list to protect the defendant's rights, would in any way violate the attorney's right to proceed on a case on behalf of his or her client as they so choose. Your question is a good one, however I don't think we're on serious or on dangerous ground on that particular issue, however."

"Representative Dart."

"I've experienced in my days, some pretty obstructionist-minded defense attorneys and I'm sure you have as well. Could they not if they were given the check list, could they just say, I'm not filling this thing out and I refuse to have any part of this, you're getting involved with my strategy in trying the case. If they were to do that, which I'm sure they could ..., what is the remedy? Is there contempt proceedings or is there some other mechanism where they are forced to comply with this?"

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "There are no provisions in this Bill itself which addresses that question, but, of course, the reason for that is all this does is instruct the Supreme Court to develop the rules. Now the Supreme Court may indeed in its development of this check list, put some type of provision for enforcement within and I suppose that the remedies that 56  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 are always available when council does not do his or her job, being dismissal from the case or contempt powers of the court, would be applicable."

"Representative Dart."

"Just a quick question, in the section b at the bottom of it, it requires that they put all of their, it says so the purpose being that all the pretrial view and the trial, post trial view, everything will be complete for review by the sentencing court for all possible challenges. Don't they do that in death penalty cases now, except for post conviction and if not, and if that is the case, are you saying that we should push the post conviction in with it as well?"

"Representative Turner." Turner, J.: "Representative Dart, I'm sure that some courts do have a procedure. Indeed, from my former days as a prosecutor, we had a learned trial court who had a procedure that he followed. However, we don't have any uniform procedure throughout the state and that's what we're tying to mandate the Supreme Court to develop here and with regard to the latter part of your question, does it cover post conviction proceedings, the answer is yes."

"Representative Dart, bring your questions close." to a

"Yeah, I, too, just wanted to commend the Sponsor, not so much for the Bill, but your very lucid answers and precise answers, which showed just how sharp you are this morning. It must have after a night of a lot of rest, relaxation and I'm sure that has helped a great deal, though I would suggest you watch some of the company you keep in the future if you're gonna present major Bills like this. Thank you." 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Any further discussion? April 20, 1995 The Gentleman from Grundy, Representative Spangler is recognized."

"Madam Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The previous question has been put. All in favor signify by saying 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The previous question has been put, Motion carried. Representative Turner to close." Turner, J.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request a favorable vote from the Members of this Chamber."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 865 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is now open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 99 'ayes', 13 'nays', 4 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. For the purpose of an announcement, this is to announce that Members of the House are invited to have lunch in the Speaker's Gallery, compliments of our many visitors today from Rockford, Illinois' Second City. We have a junior high class in the Gallery. Tom Fletcher, 20 years with the high school from Kendall County. Let's recognize the group. Mr. Clerk, call House Bill 1587."

"House Bill 1587, a Bill for an Act amending the New Vehicle Buyer Protection Act. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Lady from DuPage, Representative Biggert, is recognized."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. House Bill 1587 amends the New Vehicle Buyer Protection Act and it extends coverage under the Act to new vehicles leased for a period of at 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 least one year. The New Vehicle Buyer Protection Act is in simple terms, is the lemon law and currently, the lemon law applies only to the purchase of new vehicles and consumers under the lemon law are entitled to the full purchase price, including collateral charges, less a reasonable allowance for consumer use. If the seller is unable to conform the new vehicle to any of its applicable expressed warranties and does not provide a new vehicle of like model or otherwise comparable vehicles. Because of the increase in the lease car business, consumers have been encountering problems with new vehicles that are leased as well as purchased and they have had to absorb the expenses since the lemon law does not apply to them. I have a constituent in my district who had this problem and for that reason, I'm bringing this Bill for your consideration. I'd be happy to answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Representative from Cook, Representative Lang, is recognized."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Thank you. Hi, Representative. Good morning. I understand why you want to cover leased vehicles, but given the fact that vehicles are usually leased for just two years or three years, aren't they already covered by the expressed written warranties that come with the vehicles?"

"Representative Biggert."

"Well, I think we would have thought so. The problem is that and just to take the case that arose in my district of the leased vehicle where they had leased the car. I think it's usually 18 months or 2 years, rather than 1 year is the amount of time. The use of the car was denied for the entire year of the first year of the lease and that tolls 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 the statute. They did not have the use of it and had it repaired at least four times within the first month and then had so much trouble with it that they couldn't use it at all hardly or were afraid to drive it and yet, could get no redress from the seller of the car."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, let me ask you sort of a technical question. We're both attorneys. Isn't the current law regarding implied warranties even stronger than the lemon law?"

"Representative Biggert."

"Probably, but they tried to find redress under that and under the contract and went to arbitration, which took four years."

"Representative Lang."

"What happens in the situation that the, well, let me start with this. I didn't hear your explanation of how long this protection lasts. What was that period?"

"Representative Biggert."

"I'm sorry, now I can't hear your question."

"Please repeat your question, Representative."

"Yes, how long does the period of protection you're applying to these vehicles last?"

"Representative Biggert."

"The period lasts the same as for the purchase of a new car."

"Representative Lang."

"Which is how long?"

"Representative Biggert."

"It depends on the warranty."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, let me give you a fact situation. Let's suppose that someone leases a vehicle. Now they lease it from a 60  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 company that owns the vehicle. Let's assume either a: they return the vehicle to the leasing company and get another vehicle, or b: they buy the vehicle from the leasing company who owns it. Does that end the protection under your proposal?"

"Representative Biggert."

"I think that the lemon law does not apply in that situation. Their warranty doesn't end."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, when you purchase a vehicle, sometimes the warranty ends if the vehicle is transferred. Sometimes the warranty only extends to the original owner and sometimes, it doesn't, but here's a situation where the actual owner of the vehicle is the ABC leasing company and Mrs. Smith has leased a vehicle from them. Does the protection you're providing here only apply to Mrs. Smith or would it apply back to the leasing company if Mrs. Smith returns that vehicle to the leasing company that actually owns it?"

"Representative Biggert."

"Under the Amendment that was offered in Committee, that the person that has the warranty as far as the lease, still refers back to the manufacturer, the manufacturer's agent or distributor or that manufacturer's dealer. I think under the lemon law, it still is the manufacturer that is obligated."

"Representative Lang."

"I'm gonna support your Bill, but I think you should take it back for another Amendment and then we can fly it out of here 'cause I think it's a good proposal. A lot of people lease cars now, but there's a gap here. There's a hole. If the car is returned to the owner who is the leasing company, not the manufacturer, what happens to the 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 remainder of the protection you're trying to provide under the lemon law? If they release that vehicle to another person, do they get that protection? If the owner of the leasing company decides to drive that car himself, does he have that protection? Do you understand the gap? There's a difference between purchasing the vehicle and what happens to the warranty under the lemon law and leasing the vehicle because it's going to go back to someone who is the owner. What happens when that owner releases that vehicle to someone else and I think your Bill does not cover that and I would just simply suggest covering that."

"Representative Biggert."

"I don't see the difference in that whether somebody with a new car would sell that to somebody else or somebody who leases the car and then returns the car to the leasing agent."

"Representative, bring your questions to a close."

"I admit it's a thin line of distinction, but there is a distinction and I'll try to explain it this way. If I lease a vehicle from the ABC leasing company for three years and you intend to protect me under this Bill for those three years under the lemon law, I may decide to return that vehicle to the leasing company after one year and get a different vehicle. I may do that under an agreement with the leasing company. The question is, what happens if that leasing company then decides to lease that vehicle during that three year period to another person or they decide to use it themselves as a company car? What would happen to the protection you're trying to provide under this Bill under those circumstances?"

"Representative Biggert." 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"Number one is that this applies to the lease of a new car and I'm not that familiar with, you know, what is termed a new vehicle, but this is for the lease of a new vehicle. If that car was returned, I don't think that it would still be qualified as a new car, but since it had been transferred back, would be a used car and I don't think that the statute applies to that and in fact, I think with the constituent, one of the things that they tried to do was to give them a used car, which she didn't think that the warranties were as good and would not accept that in lieu of something that she would have preferred to have the protection under the lemon law."

"Representative, your time is up. Representative Biggert to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. This Bill is to provide protection under the lemon law to leases of new vehicles and I would ask for a favorable vote."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1587 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 109 'ayes', 0 'nays', 7 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 1633."

"House Bill 1633, a Bill for an Act to create the Ultra-light Vehicle Act. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Lachner."

"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 1633 as amended amends the Illinois Aeronautics Act to 63  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 make the first change in the definition of the word aircraft since 1945. The change in this definition does several things. First of all, aircraft, under the new definition would be limited to certain devices designed to carry humans in flight and would no longer include items like bottle rockets, fireworks, model airplanes, and weather balloons. If the FAA now requires a vehicle to be licensed as an aircraft, that vehicle will be defined as an aircraft under Illinois Aeronautics Act. The Department of Transportation may designate a regulation categories of aircraft that will not have to comply with certain portions of the Illinois Aeronautics Act. This Bill is supported by IDOT. The fiscal note that was filed indicates a potential slight cost savings to the Department of Transportation. This Bill represents a revolution in the way we look at aeronautics and I urge support of all my fellow House Members."

"Any discussion? The Lady, Shirley Jones, from Cook is recognized. Representative Jones." Jones, S.: "I yield my time to Dart."

"Representative Dart."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, the thrust of this Bill is a changing of the definition of aircraft. For starters, one of the things that I found to be curious when you mentioned earlier was dealing with bottle rockets. Were they presently defined as aircraft?"

"Representative Lachner."

"Yes, Representative, back in the '40's and '30's, when the Aeronautics Code was written and revised, bottle rockets were considered to be aircraft." 64  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Dart." April 20, 1995

"Would they have been required then to send the National Transportation Safety Board in whenever one of those went down?"

"Representative Lachner."

"Technically, the Illinois Department of Aviation if there were an accident that occurred with such a vehicle, a contrivance that was designed for flight would be required upon complaint to make sure that no damage was done and investigated. That's one of the reasons we're trying to clean up this law. We're trying to eliminate the possibility of wasting taxpayer money investigating fallen bottle rockets."

"Representative Dart."

"Just out of curiosity, was there ever an investigation into them?"

"Representative Lachner."

"I don't believe so, since 1945."

"Representative Dart."

"What other things are gonna be excluded from the definition now?"

"Representative Lachner."

"This Bill is designed to bring state law in compliance with federal law. There are some other items, the original definition of aircraft included, let me read that to you. That might be helpful to understand the Bill."

"Representative Dart."

"He was going to answer the question."

"Representative Lachner."

"The original definition of aircraft meant any contrivance now known hereafter or hereafter invented, used or designed for the navigation of or for the navigation in 65  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day the air, which could have meant anything. April 20, 1995 Literally, if you jumped off a diving board, you could be considered an aircraft."

"Representative Dart."

"There's a suggestion about certain Members being wide bodies, but I won't mention any names. Now, but in your new definition that you're supplying here is gonna make this conform with the federal definition. Is that it?"

"Representative Lachner."

"Yes, that's correct. The Illinois Aeronautics Code was written many years ago, long before current standards of aircraft and current devices that exist now and what we're trying to do is bring state law into compliance with federal law. The Federal Aviation Administration regulates this portion of our activity and we want to bring the state into compliance."

"Representative Dart."

"Would this now include things such as ultra-lights? Would they be?"

"Representative Lachner."

"This Bill allows for ultra-lights to be classified in Illinois the same way they're currently classified under FAR's."

"Representative Dart."

"Would that require them to then get pilot licenses and the rest to fly ultra-lights?"

"Representative Lachner."

"Currently, FAR does not require pilot licenses for ultra-lights."

"Representative Dart."

"And this would not change any of that, correct?"

"Representative Lachner." 66  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"This would not change any existing operation of ultra-light vehicles or of general aviation aircraft. This simply brings Illinois law into compliance with federal law. I can give you an example of one of the problems that exists, if you're interested. Right now, allowed under federal law is two place training in ultra-light vehicles. It allows for people before they fly these things, otherwise you just get one flight. It allows people before they fly these things to get training and in Illinois, currently, that training cannot take place off a grass strip. With the change in this law, that would allow two place training off of restricted airfields and grass strips."

"Representative Dart, bring your remarks to a close, please."

"My final question was, do the different aviation authorities, they have all signed off on this as something that they're all in favor of?"

"Representative Lachner."

"Yeah, that is correct. Illinois Department of Transportation, Aviation Division has signed off on this. They strongly support the Bill. It's gonna allow them the latitude to accurately interpret the law and they're in full support."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Washington, Representative Deering, is recognized."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, did you just answer a question that said that if this law passes, nothing will change in the way of operation of ultra-lights, the pilots? Currently, if I own and operate an ultra-light, do I have to be a 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day licensed pilot?"

"Representative Lachner."

"Under current federal law, you do not need to be a licensed pilot and when this law passes, it will not change that."

"Representative Deering."

"If this law passes, will there be a registration fee or currently, do I have to register an ultra-light or a glider with the Division of Aeronautics if I want to own it? Let me rephrase that so that you might understand it. Under the current law, if I purchase an ultra-light or own a glider, do I have to register it with the Division of Aeronautics and have the numbers on the side of the structure?"

"Representative Lachner."

"Let me answer the second part of your question first. The numbers that would be placed upon any aircraft are assigned by FAA, so the state doesn't have any authority in that area. Currently, under state law, any aircraft as defined under state law, would have to be registered if they are flown and used state facilities."

"Representative Deering."

"Did you say if they are flown using state facilities, meaning airports, runways? I didn't hear that last section of the answer."

"Representative Lachner."

"I think the best way to answer the question is when I said nothing would change under this, nothing would change from the standpoint of the operation of ultra-lights and other aircraft with respect to federal law. What would change is the Illinois Department of Transportation's definition of aircraft so that they have a better 68  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 guidelines in which to enforce current state law and to make flights safer."

"Representative Deering."

"Is there any increased fees or anything in this Bill?"

"Representative Lachner."

"No, no fees would be increased in this case. In fact, there aren't any fees now."

"Representative Deering."

"Nothing further, Madam Speaker."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Grundy, Representative Spangler, is recognized."

"Madam Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman moves the previous question. The previous question has been put. All in favor signify by saying 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The previous question, motion carried. Representative Lachner to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill does represent the first of a number of Bills that will offer clean-up language to the Aeronautics Code. The next Bill will also address this. It will allow Representative Deering and Spangler to obtain the opportunity of personal flight with the restructuring of how aircraft are made. In addition, I urge you to support this Bill, just as a simple clean up to the Aeronautics Code. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1633 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 103 'ayes', 1 'nay', 9 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day Majority, is hereby declared passed. The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I'm just leaving my speak light on so I get a chance to speak on the next Bill. Thank you."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Erwin is recognized."

"Thank you, Speaker. I rise on a point of personal privilege today. I would be delighted if my colleagues in the House would take just a moment to welcome to our Chamber one of Illinois' favorite sons who is here to help us try and bring a little sanity into the legislative process, Jim Brady."

"Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 1662."

"House Bill 1662, a Bill for an Act amending the Unified Code of Corrections. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"Representative Kenner."

"Thank you, Madam Chairman. House Bill 1662 provides that by January 1st, 1998, the Department of Corrections should consider building and operating a correctional facility within 100 miles of a county of over 2 million inhabitants, especially a facility designed to house juveniles in a boot camp program. I would welcome any questions at this time."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Yes, Representative, can you define an ultra-light for me? That isn't your Bill. Well, that was the other Bill. 70  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 Alright, well, let me ask you a question about this Bill. You said within a 100 mile radius of a city of more than 2 million people. Is that what you said? I couldn't hear."

"Representative Kenner."

"Yes."

"Representative Black."

"So, let me make sure that I'm clear on this. Now, I assume that this is aimed at the City of Chicago and an impact incarceration camp would have to be built within a 100 mile radius of that city. Now, does that mean it could be built in Gary, Indiana?"

"Representative Kenner."

"Representative Black, the deal is very specific. It requires the facility to be built within a 100 mile radius of the County of Cook."

"Representative Black."

"Okay, but you wouldn't want to build it in Gary, Indiana, would you?"

"Representative Kenner."

"The facility must be placed within the State of Illinois."

"Representative Black."

"Yes, thank you very much, Representative. Now that you've clarified that, I join with you. You know, I just happen to believe so strongly that public money should be spent in the State of Illinois. I just have a problem when that tax money starts to seep across that border. So, but you've crafted this legislation very, very narrowly and very shrewdly. I commend you. I tell you, you people from Chicago, I have great respect for your ability to craft this legislation and I stand foursquare with you to keep Illinois tax money in Illinois, absolutely." 71  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995

"Representative Kenner, that's a milestone when Representative Black concurs with your legislation. Any further discussion? Representative O'Connor?"

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, this boot camp, if it ever does come about, what ages will the boot camp be designed to hold?"

"Representative Kenner."

"Representative, the Bill doesn't specifically ask for a boot camp, it just asks for consideration for any correctional facility. However, it would like special consideration for a boot camp and that would be for participants between ages of 13 and 18 years of age."

"Reputable O'Connor."

"What type of person or type of criminal would be assigned to this type of boot camp?"

"Representative Kenner."

"The boot camp, in particular, would be, youths that would be assigned, would be nonviolent."

"Representative O'Connor."

"I believe the Representative was answering a question, Madam Speaker."

"Any further discussion?"

"Could he define for me what an impact incarceration program is?"

"Representative Kenner."

"A boot camp program is an intensive program that basically deals with discipline and education in a structured environment and this is a program that can be assigned by a judge for a nonviolent offender, first time offender, under special circumstances."

"Representative O'Connor." 72  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

April 20, 1995 "Representative, if this was to come to a impasse and they went ahead and built the facility in the year 1998. What would the cost of this be?"

"Representative Kenner."

"I'm sorry, I didn't hear your question."

"Representative O'Connor."

"If we jumped ahead to the year 1998 and this facility was, in fact, built, what would the cost be?"

"Representative Kenner."

"The approximate cost of a boot camp facility would be approximately $11,000,000."

"Representative O'Connor."

"Representative, I think the Amendment you added to this Bill makes this a very good piece of legislation and I plan on supporting your piece of legislation."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Morrow."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Kenner, on House Bill 1662, I normally would not vote in favor of boot camps because I feel the concept of boot camps do not serve the purpose that it was intended to, but because this is your first Bill and I guess that's what I want to point out. Is this your first Bill? Representative Kenner?"

"Yes, technically, yes."

"Representative Kenner."

"Representative Morrow."

"Now, you have me really confused. You're saying technically, yes. What is meant by that? Either it's yes or no." 73  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Yes." April 20, 1995 "Representative Kenner."

"Representative Morrow."

"Thank you. I just want to remind some of the Members here that this is a colleague of ours, whose first Bill that he's trying to get passed. As Representative Black has always waited at the end to say, what happened to the little fun that we used to normally have with Representatives on their first Bill? I'm trying to remind the colleagues, let's have some fun with this guy and see if his Bill passes or not."

"Representative, are you indicating it's a bad Bill? Representative Morrow."

"It's one of the worst Bills I've ever seen." "I Speaker Wojcik: think the Chair will agree with you. Representative Kenner to close."

"Thank you, Madam Chairman and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think this is a very good Bill. It addresses a number of issues. Number one, it addresses the economic development which comes from these type of facilities. You have communities around Cook County and the surrounding areas that economically deprived right now. This would go a long way in providing jobs. It also addresses the specific problems for the Department of Corrections. They encountered a high amount, it takes a high number of resources for them to transport prisoners and inmates back and forth across the state. So it would reduce their cost and at the same time, we have a disproportionate number of minority guards and youth correctional officers in these facilities and by placing a facility closer to Cook County would address that problem, since you would have a higher pool of minority applicants to choose from. I think it's a 74  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 good Bill and I would appreciate your support. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1662 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 114 'ayes', 0 'nays', 0 voting 'present'. And the Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 1693."

"House Bill 1693, a Bill for an Act amending the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Mitchell."

"Thank you, Madam Chairman. Ladies and Gentlemen, I bring you House Bill 1693, which amends the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois and will require the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs to develop and implement a small and medium business safety loan program to allow employers the opportunity to improve work place safety. Be happy to answer any questions on this Bill."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg is recognized."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Mitchell, first of all, I apologize. I missed the last part of your comment. Is this similar to the Legislation you had a few weeks ago that would increase the size of the amounts of grants by the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"No, no it's not, Representative." 75  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Granberg."

"I assume your answer is no, Representative Mitchell? I couldn't hear you. And again, I apologize. Could you just bear with me a moment. I assume that this is an initiative of the Department, is that correct?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"No, Representative, this was not an initiative of the Department."

"Representative Granberg."

"Is the Department in favor of this legislation, Representative?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, the Department, themselves, has taken a neutral position on this Legislation."

"Representative Granberg."

"Representative, could you explain for my edification, as well as the Members, what a safety loan guarantee is and how that differs from just a normal loan guarantee?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, I'm not sure that I can give you the difference, but I can tell you that we're talking about a guaranteed loan by an appropriation of funds that will guarantee the money to the small loan or the small industry that requests the money to do the work place safety project."

"Representative Granberg."

"Representative, could you just give me an example, then, a hypothetical on how this would work? Would a business come to the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs for assistance and then this loan would issue? So if you could just walk through with me the process and how this would operate, I think that would be helpful." 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Mitchell." April 20, 1995

"Yes, Representative, let me, I'll try to walk you through the procedure. Basically, once the safety loan program is established and a small business or industry receives a citation or a mandate to repair, fix, change some part of their establishment on the order of work place safety, then they can then apply for a loan from the loan program in order to do the work place safety and have five years, if it's approved, have five years to then repay that loan at a lower interest rate."

"Representative Mitchell, "Representative Granberg." so in that case, you indicated if a citation would be issued. Who would issue the citation to the private sector business?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"That would be issued by the Illinois portion of OSHA, which is our on site Safety and Health Consultation. Only in those cases would they, could they then apply for this particular loan,"

"Representative Granberg."

"So, correct me if I misunderstood this, Representative. So our Department of Labor issues a citation that a private company is in violation of OSHA requirements and if they issue that citation, then that same private company comes back to a different department of state government, looking for a loan guarantee to fix a problem that the other department issued the citation for?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, we're talking about the Department of Industrial Service Division of OSHC, which is through DCCA, not through the Department of Labor."

"Representative Granberg." 77  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"I April 20, 1995 just want to make sure I understand this. So DCCA, the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs, issues a citation against a business in Illinois. The business is given the citation. They're in violation of the law, SO they go back to DCCA and say, you've given us a violation, so we want to come to you for a low interest loan below prime that we won't have to repay for five years because you issued us a citation. Is that correct?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, let me rephrase one part. It's a recommendation. I think a citation, if you think of a citation as I do, now that I rethink that word, that's like a ticket. It's not necessarily a ticket, but a recommendation that, that be done and usually those recommendations or those on site safety reviews are initiated at the request of someone who has either gotten hurt or sees a potential problem."

"Representative Granberg."

"Would this be impacted by the repeal of the Structural Work Act?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, I really have no idea, whether or not I could answer that particular question, but one thing about the work place safety loan program, this is a program that is there to improve work place safety as various businesses have recommendations from OSHA."

"Representative Granberg."

"Representative, when DCCA makes this on site visitation, this is normally at the request of the business itself?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"It very easily could be, but usually it's at the 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 request of someone else and it could be an individual. We often get those kind of requests from parents in schools. Now, you know, I don't want to mix to schools are a public entity, but through OSHA laws, I know that they can initiate that kind of an inspection or review by OSHA at the initiative of any citizen."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Representative. Now, if the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs, do they have an estimate on?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, we did get a fiscal note on this particular project and basically, it's gonna take about $900,000 a year of appropriation and that would cover a four to five year period before the loans would then become active enough to start replacing the money that has been loaned out at an interest rate. We calculate that in five years time, this would then be self-perpetuating and should be able to stand alone as long as we don't have a lot of defaults and then of course we don't have a lot of control over that, but we don't expect that. One of the built in safety factors is the fact that the loans can only cover 80% of the particular safety work. The small business or industry does have to put in a portion of that money SO that they have a vested interest in the work place safety improvements."

"Representative, bring your remarks to a close, your questions."

"So, I'm in closing, Representative, but I just want to make sure I understand this correctly and maybe you can answer this if I pose this in a form of a question. So someone suggested the Department of Commerce and Community 79  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 Affairs, they come out to the work place of the private sector. It seems a little unusual to me that a business would actually solicit a state agency to come out and evaluate their work place safety 'cause I think that's always a mistake. So secondly, they do that. Then they issue a citation or a recommendation. Then they go back to the same state agency for a low interest loan and you indicated it costs $93,000. How many loans are going to be given? The Department doesn't have enough money now for job training, for skill training, for anything else to help the small business in this state. So how are they gonna come up with this money? Have $93,000 for the whole state of Illinois. I'm just somewhat dubious how this is gonna work. So if you could try to answer that, I'd really appreciate it. Thank you."

"Representative Mitchell."

"Thank you, Representative Granberg, and I'll sure try. Number one, as you'll recall, I did."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Effingham, Representative Hartke is recognized."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Mitchell, in the earlier introduction of this legislation, I think I understood you to say that this would be a loan program for safety programs to enhance the safety net, the small and medium businesses in the State of Illinois?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Yeah, it's basically targeted for small, medium size. They're usually the ones that have difficulty with it, but it's for business in general and if I could, I'd be happy 80  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 to continue and finish my answer to Representative Granberg's, if I can borrow a little of your time, Sir? Representative Granberg, in reference to your earlier question, I had an earlier Bill to help with the training, the advertising, the set up to initiate business interest and through the corridors of opportunities Bill that I had, Representative Davis took strong exception to that Bill because it had $45,000 in it that was already their money, and I agreed that it's tough to operate and DCCA will have a difficult time, but I also feel that our small businesses have a difficult time operating and in fact, these OSHA discoveries have been happening for a long, long time and sometimes, small businesses give up and close their doors, rather than try to make these improvements. I think if this small loan program, small as it is, can help some of those struggling businesses to make their work place safer for their employees, for their employers, and for citizens in general, then I think it's money well spent and I don't think we're asking for such a large appropriation and I'm not sure that I can even get the appropriation. I'm gonna have to go to my hands and knees on that one, but I certainly will do it. I think it's a good Bill and I think it's one that's going to help those businesses that are out there and really struggling to stay alive."

"Representative Hartke."

"Well, I appreciate you trying to answer Representative Granberg's question. I've got another one. You said small and medium. Is there some definition of what determines what business is a small business and when they reach that threshold of a medium size business. Does the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs have that somewhere?"

"Representative Mitchell." 81  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

April 20, 1995 "Representative Hartke, there really is no definition and I think I alluded to small and medium size because the size of the loans themselves are quite small and usually the larger industries may not pay much attention to that sum of money. However, any industry could apply to DCCA for the small loan program."

"Representative Hartke."

"Why I think looking at the big picture of things that maybe we ought to look at some amount of capital assets or something which will determine what would be small business or which one would be medium size business or large business. I think we could designate that somehow or other the number of employees or gross assets of the business. I think there's a possibility of some abuse here in the program. Another question I have, where do you plan on finding the money for this program? I know that's always a bugaboo around here and where to come up with the necessary dollars and I know you look at this and say, well it's gonna be a minor amount of a $100,000 or less or something like that. What revenue source are you gonna peg for this revenues or for this loan program?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative Hartke, that's a darn good question. I've given that a lot of thought and I'd sure wished you come with me when we started looking for this because I'm new at that particular part of it, but as far as I know, there's really only two sources that I can look at and that's new revenue growth or some kind of change in the budget appropriation that DCCA already has to move some money around and in order to do that, I would have to convince DCCA that this program is more important than some of their others. Since they're neutral on this program, 82  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 that might take your expertise along with me to convince them."

"Representative Hartke."

"I might suggest a couple of sources of revenue. Right now, we give the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs so many dollars to operate their program. Mainly, it feeds through from the federal government, but we also give cities and so forth, who are interested in keeping this small business in their community. We give them community block grants or ... grants and possibly, this legislation will allow those communities that receive these development small business development grants and community block grants that they can use part of this for those companies to retain that. I don't see anything wrong with providing a loan for workers' safety. We want the workers in the State of Illinois to be safe at their jobs, so they'll continue to be productive citizens so I might think that we ought to look internally into the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs for those dollars, rather than going after new dollars in the State of Illinois and letting that decision up to the communities or the Department to determine whether those, I guess, loans would ensure that we keep those businesses viable and active in Illinois. I think it's probably a pretty good idea and concept. The only problem is where do we come up with the money?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Thank you, Representative, and as I said, with your expertise, that was a better answer than I gave and I appreciate that and I'll certainly look into that."

"The Chair would like to announce that the Chatham-Glenwood Jr. High School, the Eighth Grade AA State 83  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 Champions are in the gallery. Let's welcome them. Any further discussion? The Lady from Cook, Representative Davis, is recognized." Davis, M.: "Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will." Davis, M.: "Representative, would it not have been more beneficial had the bankers been allowed to make these loans and be state guaranteed loans?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"I'm sorry, Representative Davis, I didn't hear the first part of your answer and by the way, I want to clarify that it was Representative Steve Davis, not Representative Monique Davis, that I was referring to on the other Bill."

"Representative Davis." Davis, M.: "Thank you. I was asking, would it not be more beneficial to small businesses to be able to borrow this money from banks and have the state guarantee those loans, rather than have a small pool of money from DCCA?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, that could be done. However, that would take additional legislation and we're not prepared to do that at this time and the second part of that is, is that some of the farmers in my area were discussing one of the guaranteed loan programs that they have now for machinery and they are telling me that in some areas of the state that the interest rate that banks are attaching to the guaranteed interest rate so that they can get these low interest loans are now throwing those into a category that the interest rate is not really lower and so there are not really any savings there. If we can cut out the middle man, do it through DCCA on a small scale and right now, this is very small scale, I think that we can keep that 84  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 interest rate lower than what they would have to apply to a bank. There won't be any handling fee put on it and I think that the loans themselves would probably stay lower in this regard than they would through a bank."

"Representative Davis." Davis, M.: "If the interest rates are lower, will they pay any interest rate when they borrow from DCCA? Will they pay any interest rate at all?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Yes, they're paying a smaller, a lower interest rate, but that's the way that we hope that we can keep this particular program self-perpetuating. Really, what we want to cover is the administrative costs for the program and to guarantee that we have the money in the program itself to keep it viable without additional appropriations, once we start recouping that money over the first five years."

"Representative Davis." Davis, M.: "To the Bill, Madam Speaker. I would think that having banks offer low interest loans to businesses in order that they create safe environments would have served the state in a much better fashion because more people could partake and as those loans were repaid, new people could borrow money from these banks, where there's a larger pool of money. The banks could have offered low interest loans to business men to create much safer environments and my final question, Representative, is will these business men who borrowed DCCA money be able to buy stamps with those dollars?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Well, Representative Davis, you're suggestion is a very good one and I agree with you. However, that would be additional legislation. I think that this program on a 85  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 small scale may show us how much need is out there. You know we can't right now just simply tell banks, you've got to give a low interest loan for work place safety without legislation, but we can do this through DCCA and see if we're answering a need. If we're not, certainly the program will die of its own venture, but I don't think they'll be able to buy stamps with this money and if they do, I don't think they'll be able to give those stamps to anyone that you would suggest that they give them to. Thank you."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Macoupin, Representative Hannig, is recognized."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Yes, Representative, is there any limit on the amount of this loan that will be available if my company or your company comes in or a company from our district? Are they limited to a million dollars or five million dollars?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Yes, there is. Basically, the loans are from $10,000 to $50,000 or 80% of the total project, but no less than $10,000,"

"Representative Hannig."

"But you said no less than, how much, $10,000?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"That's correct and of course and experimental, Representative Hannig. It was set at that figure because we felt that the number of loans, if we went smaller than that, would be so great that the administrative costs would continue. So basically, it's in that range from 10 to 50 or 80% of the project, whichever's the lesser."

"Representative Hannig." 86  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995

"So, a small business couldn't come in and ask for 8 or 9,000. They'd have to at least ask for 10?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Upon the recommendation that we have, you're correct. It would have to hit at 10,000 and the feeling is, is that 8 to 9,000 would probably be something that they could handle."

"Representative Hannig."

"Well, I think sometimes if you're dealing with small businesses and their needs obviously are not always that large, we may want to look at the, you may want to look at the possibility that there not be at least a bottom, but obviously just a top. But let me ask you, is there money in the DCCA budget to do this program this year for FY '96?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"No, Representative, there is not. But again, I've already stated that I will work to find the money through some changes and appropriation or an additional appropriation from revenue growth, if at all possible. I'm not at all sure and I realize how tight the money is. I'm not at all sure we can do this, but I really think this is something that's needed and something that's important and I hope that it can be funded. That's why we really kind of set it up where paper transaction, the guarantee is the amount of money we're looking for, but in no one year would we be looking for more than 900,000 to get the program underway and to be able to fund a certain number of projects."

"Representative Hannig."

"Could you tell us what DCCA's position was on the Bill when it was heard in Committee?" 87  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Mitchell."

"DCCA's position was neutral and I've talked to them several times and they've assured me that they see a lot of merit to the program. However, because there is an additional appropriation, they felt that their position should be neutral."

"Representative Hannig."

"So eventually we may find ourself in a position where we have to make a choice between whether or not we want to fund this program or fund schools or ... Bills or do something else? Is that what it's ultimately gonna boil down to?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Yeah, I think we've got a question of magnitude in that comparison, but you're absolutely right and basically, it boils down to that in the long run for everything that we have to consider and I guess things are weighed on their merit and this will be weighed with other things. One thing that I failed to mention and I needed to mention was that we did amend this particular piece of legislation and DCCA did write that Amendment for me, so they have worked with me on this Bill."

"Representative Hannig."

"Thank you and just lastly in the area of I think Representative Monique Davis touched on it a little bit. It seems like this is an expansion of government in what is generally a private enterprise part of our economy. Would not we be better served if we just allowed the free marketplace to determine these things and if a business needs a loan, particularly it looks like a small loan for these things, if they go down to their local banker and talk to him or her and do it through the normal course of 88  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 business, rather than have the State of Illinois embark upon a new loan program?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Well, Representative, I certainly understand what you're saying. Number one, we already have some and I use the word, interference, although it's the kind of interference that we like to see and that's improvement in work place safety by the government themselves in the form of OSHA, which is a federal intervention. We have a state intervention arm of that, and it's already there. The problem that we have is that over the years, all businesses have had that opportunity to go to banks. What we're trying to offer and I think that was why the inference with small and medium size businesses. They sometimes can't handle those loans or can't get those loans and we would hope that though these lower interest loans, we can give them the help for them to keep their doors open in these smaller communities and keep these interests viable."

"The Gentleman from Vermillion, Representative Black."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I move the previous question."

"The previous question has been put. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye'; all those opposed 'nay'. The previous question has been carried. Motion passed. Representative Mitchell to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think that this is, although it is small, there's not a large appropriation with it, but I think the intent of this legislation is one that is excellent and one that will help our small businesses throughout the State of Illinois, not only become safer, but in some cases, maybe keep their doors 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 open and help their businesses grow and thrive, and I would hope that everyone would join me in passing this legislation. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1693 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 104 'ayes', 0 'nays', 8 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 1725."

"House Bill 1725, a Bill for an Act amending the Counties Code. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"Representative Wait. Out of the record. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 1748."

"House Bill 1748, a Bill for an Act concerning the Department of Labor. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"Representative Roskam."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 1748 is a clean-up Bill initiated by the Department of Labor. We took care of this on Second Reading to take care of some of the objections that Representative Hoffman raised and I urge your favorable consideration and will be happy to respond to any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Hoffman."

"Yes, will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"It's my understanding, Representative, that this would repeal several Acts that the Department of Labor has 90  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 indicated no longer really are applicable. Is that correct?"

"Representative Roskam."

"I didn't quite hear everything, Representative, but if your question was, these are obsolete or found unconstitutional or what not and initiated by the Department of Labor, then the answer is yes."

"Representative Hoffman."

"I think that, that was my question, although you phrased my question much better than I phrased my question. The provisions with regard to the Illinois Farm Labor Contractor Certification Act, that has been taken out of this Bill. Is that correct?"

"Representative Roskam."

"Yes."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Does the Amendment take out any other portion of the Act?"

"Representative Roskam."

"No."

"Representative Hoffman."

"So most of these Acts, it's my understanding , are obsolete as opposed to not just being enforced by the Department of Labor?"

"Representative Roskam."

"The preponderance of them would be obsolete. Some have been held unconstitutional. Some have been superseded by other Acts and if you'll give me a minute, Representative, I can just give a cursory or beyond a cursory review to make sure that I'm not over representing what's in here. Hang on. Representative, under the Safety Inspection and Education Act, the Act requires the Department to assess 91  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 penalties against local units of government. The Department feels that it gets adequate compliance through simple notification so the penalties aren't needed and this is just we're allowing permissive conduct."

"Representative Hoffman."

"I apologize, Representative. I'd like to, first of all, I'd like to thank you for moving the provision of the Illinois Farm Labor Contractor Certification Act that was in this Bill. I think that, that was something that we should still have in place, but in looking over my analysis, I found one other that kind of concerns me and I hadn't seen it previously, I don't believe. The Public Works Preference Act and it's my understanding that this was repealed. The Public Works Preference Act and my analysis says that this Act restricted the number of nonresident which would mean out of state employees allowed to work on public works construction projects in the State of Illinois. The concern would be from being in a district that borders or is real close to Missouri that we would be using our state taxpayers' dollars to pay Missouri workers. I don't know that, that is something that we want to do. Could you just address that concern and whether this has any effect on that problem?"

"Representative Roskam."

"I agree with you, Representative. That's not something that we want to do. The Act, the Public Works Preference Act was ruled unconstitutional in 1984 and it was superseded by the Employment of Illinois Workers On Public Works Act, 30ILCS570, so you and I are singing off the same song sheet."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Very good. Just so that, for the base of legislative 92  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 intent and if anybody in my district happens to be listening, I'm glad that you cleared that up, only because the concern has always been that we pay taxpayers' dollars and we as Illinoisans pay taxpayers' dollars to the state, that we should be hiring Illinoisans who pay dollars to the state to do public works projects. So, it's my understanding that there still will remain a better Act that is Constitutional in the State of Illinois to attempt to ensure if at all possible, preference is given to Illinois companies who hire Illinois workers who pay Illinois taxes for public works projects. Is that correct?"

"Representative Roskam."

"That's right, Representative, and the workers of Illinois are better because of your leadership and your wings of protection."

"Representative Hoffman, would you like to say something about that?"

"Yes, do I have permission to use that in my next campaign brochure, Representative?"

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Has, just looking through some of the sheets here, has organized labor taken a position on the Bill?"

"Representative Roskam."

"Representative, it's my understanding that this is not controversial. I spoke with Representative Saltsman earlier and he didn't seem to have any concerns. It's supported by the Department. It's supported by the 93  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day Municipal League. It's clean up stuff. I'm not aware of any opponents."

"Representative Mautino."

"I see, I just wanted to mention that I have the AFL-CIO position statement which does show that they are in opposition to 1748 and this was left out, SO I was wondering what portions of the Bill have, why is organized labor opposing your Bill?"

"Representative Roskam."

"Representative, could you look at, that's 1748 before or after the Amendment because Representative Hoffman raised the concern about the farm laborers issue. We took that out. That's gone. This is stripped down and clean, as far as I'm concerned."

"Representative Mautino."

"The position paper I have in front of me is from the 18th of April. When was the Amendment, I don't have the book placed on here."

"Representative Roskam."

"If I could ask the It was before the 18th of April, the Amendment was so I can't speak to their opposition. They've never spoken to me. They've never spoken to the staff. To my knowledge, they haven't approached the Department, although I don't have personal knowledge of that, but this is not meant to be controversial in any way. This is clean up stuff and I don't even know the content of their opposition."

"Representative Mautino."

"Thank you. I wanted to, as I said, I'm a little confused why in the earlier statement, it would be not opposed and what I would like to find out, if you don't mind, if you would allow for a few minutes to find out if 94  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 they have changed their opinion from opposed on this Bill."

"Representative Roskam,"

"Would you mind taking this out of the record for a few moments so I can find out whether they have removed their objections to your Bill?"

"Representative Roskam."

"Representative, we can sit tight for two minutes if you want to make a phone call and find out what their program is."

"Representative Mautino. Representative Roskam, are you ready to proceed? Would you like to get the show on the road? Representative Roskam."

"Thank you, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I urge an 'aye' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1748 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 76 'ayes', 25 'nays', 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 1791."

14 Clerk Rossi: "House Bill 1791, a Bill for an Act amending certain Acts in relation to the names of State buildings. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"Representative Lyons."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, let me introduce House Bill 1791, which changes references in the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois to reflect updated name changes to State buildings currently managed by the Department of Central Management Services. 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 The State of Illinois Center is changed to the James R. Thompson Center. Rockford Office Building is changed to the E. J. 'Zeke' Giorgi Center. Illinois Children's School and Rehabilitation Center and IL Visually Handicapped School are changed and combined as the Illinois Center for Rehabilitation and Education. Illinois State Psychiatric Institute is changed to the Metro Children and Adolescent Center and Main Township High School North is changed to the Suburban North Facility. I'll be happy to answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Lady yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Thank you, Representative. Now your explanation said they're just going to change, make these technical corrections, Representative, to come in conformity with the name changes that have been made at the State of Illinois Center, Rockford, Illinois Children's School, Illinois State Psychiatric Institute and Main Township. Is that all the buildings that have been changed or will be changed by your legislation?"

"Representative Lyons."

"It also includes the Effingham Regional Office Building, among the buildings to be managed by the Department of Central Management Services."

"Representative Granberg."

"IS that going to be changed to the Chuck Hartke Building?"

"Representative Lyons."

"Not at this time, no."

"Representative Granberg." 96  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"That certainly is a great disappointment, Representative. Do you know why Central Management Services won't go along with the Hartke Building?"

"Representative Lyons."

"If you want to pass a Resolution to do that."

"Representative Granberg."

"Well, I've been informed by Representative Black, they have the bathroom on the second floor wants to be named the Hartke Building room, so. But, Representative, I am curious as to any possible changes that might be made in the near future. It's my understanding and maybe Mr. Henry can answer this, that they intend to rename the lottery building here in Springfield after Zeke Giorgi, so I think your Bill does not take that into consideration. What would apply in that case?"

"Representative Lyons."

"That is not a building that's under Central Management Services and that's already been done last year."

"Representative Granberg."

"Oh, I am sorry, Representative, it's my understanding they're going to a dedication in the next few weeks and I thought that would have to also be brought into compliance."

"Representative Lyons."

"That was passed last year by statute and the Governor signed it."

"Representative Granberg."

"So we changed that already in the previous fiscal year and now this, so that has been changed on and that's finalized and so this year, we just need this legislation to change the other ones that have taken place during the current year?" 97  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Lyons."

"That is correct, Representative."

"Representative Granberg."

"Representative Lyons, I don't think we have any problem with this, but just out of curiosity, how much is it going to cost to run this legislation through just to make these name changes?"

"Representative Lyons."

"There would be minimal cost, Representative. It would just be a matter of cost for the plaques."

"Representative Granberg."

"So the name changes have already been made on the buildings and all these places, all these locations and we're just merely codifying essentially the statutes to reflect those changes. Everything else has been taken care of. There are no ancillary costs. There are no any items that need to be done associated with those name changes."

"Representative Lyons."

"That is correct, Representative."

"Representative Granberg."

"Well, thank you, Representative. I appreciate your time in answering these questions and we have nothing further at this time."

"Representative Lyons. Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black."

"Yes, thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I move the previous question."

"The previous question has been moved. All in favor signify by saying 'aye'; all opposed saying 'no'. Motion carried. Representative Lyons to close."

"I would appreciate support of this Bill just to update these buildings in statute. Thank you." 98  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1791 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 107 'ayes', 0 'nays', 9 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 1797."

"House Bill 1797, a Bill for an Act amending the Illinois Human Rights Act. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Mitchell."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen, I bring you House Bill 1797 which amends the provisions of the Human Rights Act pertaining to judicial review of final orders for the Human Rights Commission. Basically, the Bill itself does three things. It allows a party to petition the appellate court to appeal any interlocutory order. It also allows the Commission to analyze any decision and determine whether or not it needs to be reviewed and it gives the Commissions the same right as the Supreme Court as to whether or not they hear each and every decision and have to write a final order on every one. Be happy to answer any questions regarding this order."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, Representative Biggert has a Bill. It deals with the Department of Human Rights. Does this affect what she's doing in any way?" 99  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, not to my knowledge, it doesn't at all."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, have you discussed this matter at all with Representative Biggert to determine whether there's any conflict between your Bill and hers?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Yes, we have, Representative. Representative Biggert's Bill is more comprehensive than mine and deals with some very different specific areas than this Bill does."

"Representative Lang."

"Alright, I just wanted to make sure there were no conflicts so we didn't potentially pass two Bills that were conflicting. Relative to your Bill, Representative, it provides that if there are no exceptions to the recommended order that are filed by a party, the recommended order shall become the order of the commission without further review. Why do we want to do that? What is the policy behind that?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, if no one objects to this, rather than slow down the process, we want to expedite the process and we believe that this will do just that."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, how long do the parties have to file their exceptions?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, at this point, it's my understanding that they have 21 days of the receipt of the services with the exceptions to file with the commission." 100  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Lang."

"Do you feel that if we're going to cut off the party's rights that have further review, that 21 days is sufficient? Shouldn't we give them a little bit longer time if in fact you're gonna be cutting off their rights to get further review?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"No, Representative, I don't believe that we should. That's what the law is now. We're not changing that. Basically, that would again, keep this thing open to the process even longer and if our intent is to be fair, but to expedite the process, then we should indeed leave that as it is. We haven't taken the right to appeal away from anyone. The right of appeal is still there, but the right of review is the only thing that we're discussing."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, I agree with you that you're not changing the 21 days that's in the law now, but you're taking away the right of review. So it seems to me if you're taking away somebody's right to challenge the order, you ought to give them sufficient time to do that. So in the case of any regular civil case, parties have 30 days to file a motion for a new trial or a Motion to overrule, overturn the jury verdict or any other order that's given by a court and in those cases, they have appeal rights as well. So the question is why do we, if we're going to take the rights of review away, do we not at least extend this to 30 days so that this is consistent with civil law?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Thank you, Representative, that's a good question and I had referenced a wrong part of the order and it is 30 days, by the way. I was mistaken and I appreciate the 101  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 opportunity to correct that."

"Representative Lang."

"Thank you. I appreciate you clearing that up. That does clear that section up for me. The other section I wish to discuss with you is the section that provide that the commission may decline to accept the case for review. Are there any guidelines in the Bill as to when the commission can decline a case?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, there are no particular standards or guidelines. We didn't want to tie the commission into looking at several different standards. That part of the law is, gives them the same rights as the Supreme Court."

"Representative Lang, bring your questions to a close, please."

"Thank you. I only have one more question, I think. So what you're doing here is giving these folks the same rights the Illinois Supreme Court or the United State Supreme Court have in saying, well, they can decline to take any case that they choose to for whatever reason?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"No, Representative, that certainly is not the intent of this Legislation to give them all the same full and exact rights as the Supreme Court. I only use that in reference to an analogy that, that is being done. Basically, we have not changed, again, their right to appeal and they certainly can do that if their case is not reviewed."

"Representative?"

"Thank you. It did bring up another question, Madam Speaker. If there are no guidelines in the Legislation as to when the commission may decline to review a case, how do 102  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 we guard against the possibility that they'll do it in a gratuitous way? How do we know that their declaration of a case is warranted? Are we gonna leave it just simply to their own ethical standards?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, we are assuming that the commission, itself, over time will come up with a consistent body of decisions that will then probably become the standard, but certainly they're not going to deny the right of review of all cases or particular cases. That's going to cause an expansive number of appeals, then. So I would assume that the commission themselves will set those standards over time."

"Representative, one more question."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate the Chair's indulgence. Representative, the commission is overburdened with work today. Considering they're overburdened with work, isn't it at least possible that what you're doing here by giving them the right to decline any case they wish for review is to say to them, well, to cut down your load, why don't you just decide that any number of cases will be declined for review? If one of their problems and it is and we agree on that, is that they're overburdened and we cannot provide more commissioners for them because we can't afford to do it, then why wouldn't they take the step of just declining cases, just to keep their work load down?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"It's a good question, Representative, and I agree with you somewhat. They are overburdened and they are seeking some relief. However, I think in their own ethical judgement, they're not just simply gonna say, well, we're not gonna review this month because we're overburdened. 103  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 Knowing full well that, that's gonna trigger the appeal process for many of those cases and will actually throw them into more work than they had before. So I think that they realize they're going to have to use that with good judgement and consistency."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart."

"I yield my time to Representative Lang."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, thank you. I have no more questions. I just need enough time to make a comment or two if I might, Madam Speaker. I understand what Representative Mitchell is attempting to do with this Bill. The Department and the Commission are overloaded with work. Cases take far too long and he's trying to simplify the system, but in simplifying the system, a situation may now be created where cases that should be reviewed are not reviewed, simply because the Department is overworked and overloaded. That would be wrong. We would be better off to find another way to streamline this. We don't want cases to be cut or dismissed or ignored just simply because a state agency is overworked. That would be unfair to the taxpayers, unfair to the people that use the system. It seems to me there's a better way. So I would ask my colleagues to vote 'no' or 'present' on this, send Representative Mitchell back to the drawing board to find a better way to do this, even though he's well intentioned, this is not exactly what we should be doing to resolve the problem."

"There being no further discussion. Representative Mitchell to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I heed Representative 104  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 Lang's words. I understand what he's saying, however we have worked very closely with the Commission, themselves and I really, truly believe that, that this Legislation includes many things other than that one particular point and I certainly have the faith in the commission themselves to not arbitrarily refuse to review cases which would trigger more work for the Commission. If we are truly trying to streamline the process and truly trying to help the Commission uncover from this burden, then this Legislation will help that process. It's a good Bill. It's one that they feel will help them and will allow them to hear more cases in a timely fashion, giving more citizens the right to have their cases heard, than are heard now. So in my opinion, this is a good piece of Legislation. It's one that the Commission is seeking and I am asking for your 'yes' vote. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1797 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 95 'ayes', 7 'nays', 13 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 1319."

"House Bill 1319, a Bill for an Act amending the Credit Agreements Act. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Salvi."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. House Bill 1319 amends the Credit Agreements Act to clarify the requirements for an interference torte cause of action. This Bill requires privity of contract to pursue such an action. An example 105  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 is probably the best way to explain this Bill. A borrower seeking credit may have contractual obligations, such as a lease or a purchase agreement which are financially unfavorable or burdensome to the borrower. In making a sound credit decision, a lender may be unwilling to extend credit to the borrower because of that burdensome or unfavorable relationship with a third party. Under Federal Regulation B, lenders are required to provide the borrower with a reason for rejection of credit. If the lender informs the borrower that a loan cannot be made because of the contractual relationship, the borrower subsequently, and the borrower subsequently chooses to terminate or modify the relationship, the third party may assert that the lender's liable under an interference torte theory. This Bill simply says for an interference torte, for you to be a party to an interference torte to be a plaintiff, there has to be privity of contract so that third party in that example would not be able to pursue an action. There is no opposition to this Bill. It passed out of Committee unanimously and the Community Bankers and the Illinois Bankers Association strongly support this Bill. I'd be happy to entertain any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Ray Lang, is recognized."

"Did you say, Ray Lang?"

"Actually, I was going to say, you're recognized before I said Lang and so that went together. I'm learning Chinese."

"I see. I thought maybe I had some lost brother that I was not aware of. Thank you, Madam Speaker, for your courtesy. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will." 106  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Representative, Bill?" was there a fiscal April 20, 1995 note filed on this

"Representative Salvi."

"I don't know, but I can't imagine that there would be any fiscal impact. What we're doing is we're simply clarifying the requirements for an interference torte, SO there's nothing that has anything to do with any kind of expenditure and actually, in looking at the administrative office of Illinois courts, they did indicate that there is no fiscal impact."

"Representative Lang."

"All right, so there is no fiscal impact and you indicated that the Community Bankers support this Bill. Were there any opponents in Committee to this Bill?"

"Representative Salvi."

"There were no opponents to this Bill and the Illinois Trial Lawyer Association is not opposed to this Bill."

"Representative Lang."

"Let me ask you this. There's a torte of interference with a prospective economic advantage. That's really what you're dealing with here. Is that right?"

"Representative Salvi."

"I think it is the same. Representative."

"Representative Lang." It's an interference torte,

"And currently, the elements of this torte are for a reasonable expectation of entering a valid business relationship, the defendant's knowledge of the plaintiff's expectancy, purposeful interference by the defendant that prevents the plaintiff's legitimate expectancy from ripening into a valid business relationship, and damages to the plaintiff, resulting from such interference and all of 107  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 this comes from a case called Felhower versus City of Geneva. How does your Bill change or affect these elements of that torte?"

"Representative Salvi."

"We are adding an additional element, Representative, the element of privity of contract."

"Representative Lang."

"Are you adding that as a element that must be proved or if it is proved, that's all you need to prove?"

"Representative Salvi."

"We are adding it as an element that must be proved for one to pursue an action under the interference torte theory."

"Representative Lang."

"Can you cite a specific case where the four current elements that are accepted for this torte, would work or would not work because you don't have this fifth element? Does my question make any sense? I'm not sure I'm asking it correctly. In other words, can you give me a fact scenario that would not fit into these first four that you need?"

"Representative Salvi."

"Well, I think the fact scenario that I gave when I described the Bill would be a good example. A person other than the borrower may attempt to assert a cause of action, right now against a creditor, based on this interference torte theory. Stated recently in an Illinois Appellate Court in Roy versus Coin, I'll give you the cite if you want, the court said, 'the issue of what elements are necessary to constitute these tortes has caused considerable confusion in Illinois and in other jurisdictions as well'. This confusion may result in the 108  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 application of these interference torte theories, Representative, by persons other than the borrower, against creditors and therefore, cre create a material and adverse effect on the availability of credit in Illinois. I don't think it would have any impact on the rights of individuals to pursue legitimate actions, but it does really create a material and adverse effect on the availability credit in Illinois and that's what we're trying to address here."

"Representative Lang."

"Representative, your Bill would require privity of contract. Does this change the law in any way under a third party beneficiaries and their ability to sue under someone else's contract?"

"Representative Salvi."

"No."

"We have a distinct Lady on the House Floor, right now, distinguished and distinct. Actually, she's my apartment mate, the Treasurer, Judith Topinka. We're recognizing you, Judy. Representative Lang."

"Yes, perhaps you could talk to your roommate later, Madam Speaker."

"Actually, she's not my roommate, she's my apartment mate."

"Ah, okay. May I proceed?"

"If that's your pleasure, of course."

"Thank you very much. Representative, just one or two more questions. I asked you about third party beneficiary rights and you simply said, no, it doesn't affect them. If I read this right, it seems to and maybe I'm a little confused, but what you're saying is, that if you don't have a direct contractual relationship with these parties, you have no rights. Doesn't that seem to fly in the face of 109  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 law we know, regarding the rights of third parties?"

"Representative Salvi."

"Yeah, I understand what you're saying, Representative. I guess that you're right in the sense that in this specific situation and in the example that I gave in the case of Roy versus Coin, when we're talking about creditors, we're talking about loans. You're right. That would affect third parties in their rights because we're defining exactly what's necessary to bring an interference torte, but I think you used the word, third party beneficiary and I'm saying that it does not affect that body of law involving third party beneficiaries. It only affects this limited situation, which admittedly does involve third parties, but it's not as expansive as, we're not eliminating third party claims. We're just creating a requirement for privity in this very limited situation by amending the Credit Agreements Act so only under this kind of situation where there's a bank that wants to loan money, the bank sees that there is an unfavorable contract that the lender is in. The bank says, listen, we cannot loan you money because you are involved in a bad deal here and then the lender says, my goodness, what a bad deal this is and then goes to the third party and says, I want to get out of this bad deal. The third party, under my Bill, would not be able to pursue an action against the lender and that's a very limited situation, Representative. This Bill does not affect general third party rights, third party beneficiary rights. It simply says that in order for that individual in that factual scenario, to bring a law suit against the lender, there has to be privity of contract. In other words, they wouldn't be able to pursue that action in the example that I just gave you and I think 110  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 that it makes sense that the trial lawyers are not against this Bill because it's a matter of fairness. The banks are for this because it affects their ability to loan, even though it really does not adversely affect third party's rights generally in these kinds of causes of action."

"Representative Lang, please bring your questions to a close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. One additional question. Representative, since you indicate that you have no intention of affecting all the laws regarding third party beneficiaries, will you commit to us that if this Bill comes back from the Senate with an Amendment that expands third party beneficiary law changes beyond what you're doing here, that you will resist them?"

"Representative Salvi."

"If such an Amendment is placed on this Bill, it would make this Bill a bad Bill. It would make it an unfair Bill and I would oppose it vigorously."

"Representative Woolard."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for a short? Representative Salvi, I was having difficulty understanding a while ago and really the noise level's great in here today, but were you saying a bad Bill or a bad deal?"

"Could we please have some quiet in the House, please? Representative Salvi."

"I said that if they did this, Representative, it would make it a bad Bill."

"Representative Woolard."

"It was a bad Bill, not a bad deal, then. So, Madam Speaker, I'd like to move to previous question, if I may."

"Representative, that's very kind of you. That's 111  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 not necessary. We are going to recognize Representative Salvi to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'd appreciate your favorable consideration."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1319 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 108 'ayes', 0 'nays', 7 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Wennlund in the Chair."

"Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 1807."

"House Bill 1807, a Bill for an Act that amends the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Myers. Out of the record. Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 1878."

"House Bill 1878, a Bill for an Act that amends the Illinois Vehicle Code. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative McAuliffe."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 1878 would allow the city of Rosemont to erect a billboard in the metro commuter parking lot that is surrounded on four sides by interstate highways. I'd be happy to try to answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?" 112  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"He indicates he will." April 20, 1995

"Representative, I believe was Amendment #1 adopted to your Bill?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"Amendment #1 became the Bill."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. Representative, Amendment #1, because of its stipulation and its description, it sounds like it would have a very, very limited application, a certain commuter parking lot servicing public transportation and enjoined on two sides by interstate highways. How many of these locations are there throughout the state?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"I believe there's only one location that would fit that definition. It's located in my district and it's a parking lot for the metro train and CTA."

"Representative Granberg."

"Representative, what would this actually allow? Are they prohibited from doing something currently that this legislation would address, that would allow them to continue some type of advertisement?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"Currently, the IDOT would be able to take the sign down if they put one up. This would say that IDOT could not remove the sign."

"Representative Granberg."

"Well, Representative, why would the Department of Transportation want to remove the sign if it does not cause any problems for the adjacent property owners?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"Well, this would just make sure that they couldn't take it down. There is no, there are no residential houses 113  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 anywhere near there. It's like an island. It's surrounded by the toll way on one side, the Kennedy Express Way on the other side and it's just like an island and there are no houses and there's no disruption to anybody's private property."

"Representative Granberg."

"So, Representative, this would, this is not an action by the Department of Transportation to take this sign down? There is no indication on their part that they want to take that course of action, currently?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"At this time, there is no, no sign has been erected and I've been told that the Illinois Department of Transportation is neutral on the Bill, but at this time, there is no sign. They don't want to put the sign up unless they know they can keep it up."

"Representative Granberg."

"Representative, who currently owns the sign? Does the village of Rosemont own this one sign?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"No, there is no sign currently there. They want to erect the sign and the village of Rosemont would own the sign."

"Representative Granberg."

"So, let me understand this correctly. There is no sign on this property at the current time. The village of Rosemont would like to place a sign on that location. Is that correct?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"That's the way I understand it. There may be little signs like ad benches, but there is no billboard there now." 114  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Granberg."

"Then the Department of Transportation can, in fact, stop the municipality from erecting the sign under current law if they so choose."

"Representative McAuliffe."

"Yeah, they could under the current law, but if we pass this Bill then they would be prohibited from removing the sign."

"Representative Granberg."

"Has the village of Rosemont entered into any contractual agreements with anyone for the construction and or lease of the sign, currently?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"Not to my knowledge. I think the city of Rosemont intends to own the sign themselves and probably advertise their Rosemont horizon or Rosemont Convention Center."

"Representative Granberg."

"And the Department of Transportation is neutral on the legislation because I thought I saw a member of DOT in the back of the chambers, but they have not taken a position?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"From what I've been told, they are neutral and I believe that to be the case."

"Representative Granberg."

"I noticed Representative Saviano offered the Amendment and he seems somewhat eager in the back row to discuss this legislation, but Representative, I appreciate your comments and pursuant to our agreement last night, I'm waiting for that information you were going to provide to me. So I assume that will be shortly forthcoming, that list. Thank you very much."

"Representative Mcauliffe to close. This 115  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 Bill's on short debate."

"I simply ask for a..."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1878 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 100 'ayes', 7 'nays', and 9 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. In the Speaker's gallery, the student advisory group sponsored by Representative Tenhouse, Representative Myers, and Senator Donahue. Eleven Western Illinois counties are represented by two high school juniors from every high school. They were sworn in this morning by the Supreme Court Justice, Ben Miller, and will serve as student advisors to Representative Myers, Tenhouse, during the next year. We welcome you to the Illinois House. Mr. Clerk, what is the status of House Bill 1807?"

"House Bill 1807 is on the Order of Third Reading."

"Mr. Clerk, please return this to the Order of Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 1709."

"House Bill 1709, a Bill for an Act in relation to the penalties for criminal sexual assault and aggravated criminal sexual assault. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Klingler."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House Bill 1709 is the final Bill that was part of Attorney General Jim Ryan's crime package. This Bill provides a substantial enhancement of penalties for criminal sexual assault and aggravated 116  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 criminal sexual assault. The Bill provides that criminal sexual assault would be increased from a Class I to a Class X felony. The Bill also provides that for second or subsequent offenses of either criminal sexual assault or aggravated criminal sexual assault, that the penalty would be natural life imprisonment. I would be happy to answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes Representative Dart."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I initially ask this be taken off of Short Debate. If it isn't, I'm joined by the requisite number."

"I don't see enough hands, Representative Dart. Oh wait, I see Representative Deering back there. Okay, it'll be so removed."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative, how much, there's been an amended fiscal note given for this one. How much is this Bill gonna cost?"

"Representative Klingler."

"Representative, the fiscal note that was filed by the Department of Corrections indicates a fiscal impact of $284,856,500."

"Representative Dart."

"Is that annually or?"

"Representative Klingler."

"Thank you for the clarification. Over 10 years."

"Representative Dart."

"Now, does that figure take into account what this Bill will do in the present scheme of things as if this Bill were law today? Is that how they calculate these figures 117  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 or is this calculated, based on what could or would occur under truth in sentencing, related?"

"Representative Klingler."

"Representative, this Bill, this cost was figured by itself and it's based on an impact of 2,113 inmates."

"Representative Dart."

"Well, it's based on that number, but is that based on that number of inmates who would be serving a full projected Class X sentence or is it based on inmates who would be serving 40% of a Class X offense?"

"Representative Klingler."

"Representative, we do not have released the underlying analysis from DOC."

"Representative Dart."

"Thank you. Now in regards to the offense itself, where we're changing it for the thrust of it was Amendment 6 became the Bill, the entire changes are dealing with changing criminal sexual assault from a I to an X, is it?"

"Representative Klingler."

"It changes criminal sexual assault from a Class I felony to a Class X felony."

"Representative Dart."

"And if I'm correct, the only other change then, is dealing with aggravated criminal sexual assault dealing with second time offenders? Those are the only two changes?"

"Representative Klingler."

"No, that's incorrect because it's a natural life imprisonment for both aggravated criminal assault and criminal sexual assault."

"Representative Dart."

"All right, so then there's really three things then in here, that it's changing it to in those two instances and 118  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 also, changing it from a I to an X. My question is, is there gonna be any problems, is this gonna conflict whatsoever with extended term sentencing or habitual criminal laws that are on the books now?"

"Representative Klingler."

"Representative, I'd like to go back a second to what you said, are there any other changes. It also eliminates criminal sexual assault as a probational offense and I'm sorry, I didn't hear your second part of your question."

"Representative Dart."

"Is criminal sexual assault, probational, right now?"

"Representative Klingler."

"There was a special narrow exception and that has been eliminated."

"Representative Dart."

"And just and finally then, is this gonna impact whatsoever the extended term sentencing or habitual criminal laws whatsoever?"

"Representative Klingler."

"The extended term sentencing would apply in the first offense. If there have any aggravating factors, if that's what you're asking, would apply in the initial sentence of either of aggravated criminal sexual assault."

"Representative Dart."

"That would be just for the initial one then, correct? The initial offense and then for the second one, it's natural life, so it doesn't make any difference, you can't extend a natural life, obviously."

"Representative Dart, please bring your comments to a close."

"That's correct."

"Further discussion. The Chair recognizes 119  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Representative Granberg." April 20, 1995

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to yield my time to Representative Dart, please."

"Representative Dart."

"Thank you. Just a couple of quick questions here. You discussed the impact on this. You're saying this is a part of Attorney General Ryan's initiative. Is this, I wasn't aware of the rest of this. Is this somehow work into a bigger scheme of things dealing with sexual assault or is this the extent of it here?"

"Representative Klingler."

"Representative Dart, Attorney General Ryan had a package of Bills. They're arranged on a number of offenses, including domestic battery and other offenses."

"Representative Dart.”

"But this was the only one dealing with criminal sexual assault?"

"Representative Klingler."

"That's correct."

"Representative Dart."

"Does this conflict at all with any of the measures that were passed last year in the safe neighborhoods Bill, dealing with sexual assaults and the like?"

"Representative Klingler."

"I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?"

"Representative Dart."

"Do any of these measures conflict with any of the things that were passed last year in the safe neighborhoods Bill, which did some major changes in regards to all sorts of offenses and it made some changes in regards to criminal sexual assault and aggravated criminal sexual assault?"

"Representative Klingler." 120  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"No, this April 20, 1995 measure would not conflict, but what this does do is it truly make the neighborhoods safer because it looks very hard at the problem of the repeat offenders in the sexual assault area."

"Representative Dart."

"Is the language in here dealing with the, for the second offender, aggravated criminal sexual assault, is that language that deals with the inadmissibility of the initial offense in the case in chief, is that consistent with the present law in regards to second and subsequent offenses?"

"Representative Klingler."

"As I understand your question, if the first offense were criminal sexual assault and the second offense were aggravated criminal sexual assault, that natural life imprisonment would apply. It would not have to be criminal sexual assault for both or aggravated criminal sexual assault for both."

"Representative Dart."

"My concern was with the language that deals with basically for the proving up of it, where it talks about the fact of the prior conviction's not an element of the offense and cannot be disclosed to the jury. Is that consistent with our other statutes that deal with similar offenses that we're enhancing like that?"

"Representative Klingler."

"Representative, that's present law."

"Representative Dart."

"No, Representative. I'll direct you to page four, lines three thru six. Those are all underlined. That would mean new additions. Is that consistent with present law in regards to similar offenses like that or is that something new?" 121  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Klingler." April 20, 1995 "The language on page four is identical to the language if you look on page two of the Bill, lines 15 thru 18."

"Representative Dart."

"And my final question then, I didn't notice if there had been any judicial impact notes whatsoever that were even requested on this one. Have you gotten any type of indication and the impact this would have in the court system?"

"Representative Klingler."

"We do not have a formal judicial impact statement. We've not heard of any problems from the judiciary. However, there has been some informal feedback from the law enforcement community that, in fact, there may end up being savings from police time and court time instead of having to continually retry criminals for sexual assault that they, in fact, would be incarcerated so that there may be some savings in that area."

"Representative Dart."

"I dare say there'd probably be some savings in the area as well, but the reality of the situation is when you make offenses, natural life offenses, you can probably rather safely assume that there aren't gonna be a hell of a lot of plea agreements and plea arrangements made as well, SO you're gonna have a heck of a lot more trials and a lot more contested matters, where as quite often a lot of these cases plea out. A lot of them do. The vast majority of them do. There'll be no incentive to do that now, so there may be some slight savings with someone not having to come in on a second time offender of a rape charge, but have there been any information whatsoever of how this would impact the courts in regards to, 'cause there will be. 122  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 There'll be a dramatic decrease in the number of plea agreements. I mean, that's not debatable. That's the truth. Is there any outside figure 'cause and just to let you know where I'm coming from. In the safe neighborhoods Bill, we changed a lot of things, doing the exact same thing, making natural life and the whole nine yards and when I went back to Chicago afterwards, some of my old partners who are now judges went ballistic for that very reason. Which they have the right to do that, but I just wanted to have something when I go back there to tell them that there's some ball park figure we're talking about here as far as how many, not so much cases, but what type of impact this is gonna have on the judiciary."

"Representative Klingler."

"We don't have any official figures on that, but I think that there may well be more trials, but there could possibly still be plea bargains on other offenses."

"Representative Dart.”

"Thank you."

"Further discussion? Representative Spangler. Representative Spangler, for what purpose are you seeking recognition? Representative Spangler, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The question is, 'Shall the previous question be moved?' All those in favor say 'aye', signify by saying 'aye'; opposed same sign. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. Representative Klingler's recognized to close and the previous question is put."

"Thank you very much. The intent of this Bill was to aim at the extremely high incidence of recidivism and criminal sexual assault crimes and I'm certainly, all of 123  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 you have seen the many articles concerning the problem of persons who commit these crimes and are released. There was one particular article that I would like to read the last two sentences from. That article analyzed what can be done in the area of sexual predators and the last, after going through many, many options, the last paragraph said, perhaps no parole or life sentences for certain sex crimes would be a more straight forward answer. In any event, such laws offer our only hope against an epidemic of sexual violence that threatens to pollute our society beyond the possibility of its own rehabilitation. This law is a very tough law, but I think this is necessary to get our neighborhoods back and to keep our streets safe and to protect our innocent citizens and I urge your support."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1709 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 109 'ayes', o 'nays', 7 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 1891."

"House Bill 1891, a Bill for an Act concerning support. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Mitchell."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen, I bring you House Bill 1891."

"Excuse me, Representative Mitchell. Let's give the Gentleman your attention, please. All unauthorized persons are please asked to retire to the rear of the chamber so we can move on with the business of the House. Representative Mitchell." 124  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House Bill 1891 amends the section of the Attorney General's Act that allows the Attorney General or the Department of Public Aid to request and receive from employer's labor unions, telephone companies, and utility companies, location information concerning punitive fathers and noncustodial parents for the purpose of establishing a child's paternity or establishing or enforcing or modifying a child's support obligation. This Bill will allow the Attorney General's office or Public Aid to seek parents or alleged parents of children in order to establish parentage or to set up payments or collect back child support that is due the custodial spouse. Be happy to answer any questions concerning this legislation."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes Representative Schakowsky."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Mitchell, we went through a lot of discussion about this Bill in Committee, but I think some of that is at least is, some of that history is worth sharing, I think, a little bit. Could you describe Amendment 1 and the problem that we were trying to address there and how you've addressed it?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"I'd be happy to, Representative. Number one, the problem we had that, was that the Bill was not specific enough as to what its actions were concerning the reason for the need for locator information. In fact, it was not specific in saying that it was locator information. It was just simply information and the concern at that time was that there would be other information shared with either 125  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 Public Aid or the Attorney General's Office that really had nothing to do with the collection of child support or the establishment of parentage. So the change in the Amendment was simply to add locator support obligor, locator information, and then we did add a section that stated that we, indeed, were trying to find those spouses that or those males that were alleged to be the parent of a particular child."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"So when you talk about location information, now specifically what does this Bill have to, how does it specify that information?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, this Bill now means information about the physical whereabouts of an alleged father or noncustodial parent."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Does this noncustodial parent or the father have to be in arrears on child support for this information to be sought?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, the Bill does state that it is money that is owed and in order to clear up because that was a question again in Committee, prior to the Amendment. It may be a case where the money is owed, but if we cannot locate the father to set up payment schedules or to work with an employer to set up a payment schedule, it may not be that they are in particularly in arrears, but it's not a punitive Bill. It's one to simply help the mother get on a schedule or it could be to collect money that's in arrears."

"Representative Schakowsky." 126  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995

"Well, there are still, let's be clear. What this Bill is trying to do, I think is absolutely laudable. This is to help establish a parent who owes money for child support, the location of that parent and make sure that, that child gets the money that's owed. We all agree with that. The problem, the issue that was raised and I think some would feel is still here, is that it enables inquiries to be made even if a parent does not owe, is not in arrears on money. How do we justify going to, let's see, an employer, a labor union, a telephone, or other utility company, if this person is not in arrears in owing their child support?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, I understand your concern and being a male that has gone through this process, I questioned that myself, but what is says is money that is owed and if the money is owed, if through the courts at the time of the divorce, the settlement is set and payment schedules are already being met, then the money is not owed. Money being owed would be money in arrear, so we simply couldn't just go out and make these kind of inquiries just because a male, unfortunately is divorced and is fulfilling his obligation."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"What kind of guarantees of confidentiality or privacy are in the Bill that would guarantee that this information wouldn't be just used for other creditors or, you know, it just wouldn't get around?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, the Bill specifically talks about locator information to just two agencies that are under law, obligated to set up payment schedules or attempt to 127  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 collect money that is owed to a custodial spouse. It certainly is not for publication. There are no safeguards in confidentiality, but at the same time, if I am a custodial parent and I do owe money for this reason, then my obligation is to get that taken care of and then I don't have to worry about the confidentiality because I won't be in this particular specific class of individuals that money is being sought from."

"Representative Schakowsky, please bring you remarks to a close. You have 10 seconds."

"Are there any limits to whom one can speak to...? In other words, can they go, just hang around the labor hall and ask questions?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Absolutely not. This will be done in a professional manner and it's done for a specific purpose. It's simply to gather information. We are not making any judgements as to punitive attempts against fathers or alleged fathers. We're simply trying to establish parentage or to set up payment schedules or collect money that's already owed by fathers."

"Further discussion? The Lady from Cook, Representative Flowers."

"I would like to yield my time to Representative Lou Lang, please. Thank you."

"Representative Lang."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Thank you. Representative, is this the order of Mitchell? Are we just gonna do your Bills today? Aren't there some people on your side of the aisle getting a little ticked?"

"Representative Lang, excuse me. 128  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day Representative Lang, April 20, 1995 excuse me, if you have a question to ask with regard to this Bill, please ask the question. If you do not, please sit down. Keep your comments restricted to the contents of the Bill, please."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. It would be better if you had a sense of humor, but I'll go on and ask some questions about the Bill. Okay?"

"I have no sense of humor."

"You're correct. You do not have a sense of humor. Representative, you're probably aware that there's a House Bill sitting on the Calendar on Third Reading, House Bill 1138, which is my Bill. It deals with this same issue. Are you aware of that Bill?"

"Representative Lang, I want to remind you that the Bill now under consideration is House Bill 1891. Please keep your comments restricted to the contents of that Bill. Representative Lang."

"Well, I'm going to ask him about his Bill, as soon as I ask him if he's aware of my Bill. It's very simple."

"Representative Mitchell, are you aware of Representative Lang's Bill? Representative Mitchell."

"Representative Lang, in order to clear up this mystery, I'm not aware of it, but I certainly will be soon, now that I know that it's there and I will study it."

"Representative Lang."

"Thank you kindly, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Mitchell, my Bill does some of what your Bill does, but my Bill goes a little farther. I think we should be getting this information. I'm prepared to support your Bill, but don't you think we ought to go a little farther? What good is the information, unless we use it for something?"

"Representative Mitchell." 129  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day

"Well, Representative, it certainly will be used for something because the Attorney General's office and Public Aid are all already obligated to attempt to collect child support. This Bill is simply to establish the fact that they do have the right to seek this kind of information so that they can do the job that they are doing or should be doing. Now your Bill may address the fact that it goes further in allowing them more latitude to conduct the business that they are obligated to do and if that's so, I can't wait to read your Bill."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, since I can't get my Bill called, do you want to take your Bill back to Second Reading and I'll tell you how to make your Bill better by getting the Department of Professional Regulations to suspend professional licenses of dead beat obligators?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Representative, I would be SO afraid that my Bill would get lost in the shuffle and I'm SO excited to get mine here, at least to be discussed that I would rather pass mine and then help you if I can to find your Bill, wherever it may be."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, I'd be happy to have you become a cosponsor on my Bill, if you can get it passed. Representative, let me ask you this. What is the Attorney General doing now? You say they have the right and the power to do these investigations and collect these monies, which are quite sizable, as I know you're aware. What programs does the Attorney General have going today and how successful has he been in the collection of child support?"

"Representative Mitchell." 130  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

April 20, 1995 "Well, Representative, that's not germane to my Bill, so I really haven't done any study in that regard, but I do know in discussing my particular Bill with both the Department of Public Aid and the Attorney General's office that at least this portion of what they have to do is something that will help them improve their track record and that's what I'm trying to do."

"Representative Lang."

"Thank you. Well, despite the fact that you don't think it's germane or relevant, you've indicated, you've indicated, Representative, that when I said, what's the Attorney General gonna do with this? And you said, he's responsible for this program, this child support collection. So I've asked you, well, what is he doing? What's he gonna do with the information? What program will he plug this into and how's that program working today?"

"Representative Mitchell,"

"Well, Representative, this is not a portion of an established program and something that he can plug in. This simply is, gives him the ability or Public Aid, the ability to find those males or females in some cases, the noncustodial parent, so that they can possibly improve on their attempt to bring justice and these cases when the courts have made a decision." Speaker Wennlund: to a close." "Representative Lang, please bring your remarks

"Well, I'm gonna use my own five minutes when I'm finished with the five minutes that Representative Flowers yielded me, Sir."

"No, that's not how it works. There are several Members seeking recognition, Representative Lang."

"Thank you. Be happy to do that. Representative, you 131  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 indicated that the Department of Public Aid will get this information. How will they? Does your Bill authorize the Attorney General to share this information with the Department of Public Aid?"

"Representative Mitchell."

"Well, Representative, it authorizes both Department of Public Aid and the Attorney General's Office, either or to."

"Representative Mitchell."

"To seek this information. There are times when one or the other of those departments is involved in the collection of money owed and so the information, because it is locator information, is information that they can use."

"Further discussion? Representative Hoeft. Representative Hoeft."

"Mr. Speaker, can we move it?"

"Representative Hoeft moves the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the previous question be put?' All those in favor signify by saying 'aye'; opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The previous question is put. Representative Mitchell is recognized to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I realize that, that this Bill doesn't do everything. However, the time has come for us to take steps in order to resolve the problems that are caused by the custodial parent for the children that are struggling to just stay alive on the meager sums that they have. If we indeed parent children, then we indeed are responsible for the infants and responsible for their well being. In order to ignore that responsibility, in order to forget the fact that we are indeed the parents of a child, is unforgivable. I think we need to go as far as we 132  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 possibly can in order to bring justice to those children that cannot fend for themselves and in everything that we can do, I think we should do and I would urge everyone in this chamber to join me in at least some attempt to recover those monies that are due the children of this state. I urge a 'yes' vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1891 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 110 voting 'aye', 0 'nays', 6 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitution Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 1931."

"House Bill 1931, a Bill for an Act amending the Housing Authorities Act. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative McGuire on House Bill 1931, the year of his birth."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I have House Bill 1931 today that I'd like to ask for a 'favorable' passage on Third Reading. This is a Bill that I've had before in the past. Basically, what this Bill does is it allows housing units, housing authorities, I should say, in the rest of the State of Illinois to do exactly what they do in the County of Cook and that is to allow people who are residents of the housing authority to use any income that they receive towards their rental eligibility. The Bill would be considered a work incentive for low income housing authority tenants. As I mentioned in counties other than Cook, tenant's income from a new job 133  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 is counted as new income in determining their rent. So that the result when a tenant gets a job, their rent increases unless they live in Cook County. So by passage of this Bill, we would just allow the other 101 counties to do exactly what they're doing in Cook County and I'd try to answer any questions you may have. If not, why I'd appreciate your 'favorable' vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"Is there any discussion? Representative Black."

"Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative Black, proceed."

"Yes, will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Thank you very much. Representative McGuire, you've had this Bill the last two or three years as I recall, right?"

"Representative McGuire."

"Yes."

"Representative Black."

"And from my reading of the file on this Bill, this truly would give the other 101 counties, what Cook now enjoys and to me, it's an incentive. Would you agree with my analysis here? It's an incentive for people to go out and try to find a job and then not have to worry about immediately being thrown out of public housing or have their rent increase to the point where they couldn't afford to stay there, thus have no incentive to find a job. Isn't that your whole purpose of the Bill?"

"Representative McGuire."

"I think if I heard you correctly, yes Sir."

"Representative Black."

"Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and to the Bill. 134  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 I'm just very pleased to join in support of this Bill, sponsored by Representative McGuire. I'm extremely pleased that we can hear a Democrat Bill that's been bottled up in the House for the last three years, but with a bipartisan effort, we can move this Bill that's currently on Short Debate and get right to the vote and pass a good Democrat Bill."

"Representative McGuire to close. Representative McGuire to close. This Bill's on Short Debate. Please proceed, Representative McGuire."

"Well, I would just echo what Representative Black said and I appreciate his comments and ask for your favorable response and thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, from Will County."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1931 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 114 voting 'aye', 0 'nays', 1 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 2080."

"House Bill 2080, a Bill for an Act Amending the Illinois Vehicle Code. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair Rutherford."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. recognizes Representative House Bill 2080 would allow the special environmental license plates to be issued for the use for recreational vehicles as automobiles. well as for It would also allow for the secretary of state to determine if the environmental license plates 135  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 should be vanity or personal plates and then also, it provides for certain clean-up language which would take and consolidate each of the special funds that have been created whenever we've had other license plates, such as the bronze star plate, the Korean plate, and so forth, that it would administratively clean it up such that the accounts would be one account known as the special plate fund and it would put in the various effective dates to put that into place and I would ask for a favorable roll call."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the author of the environmental plate, Representative Novak."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I simply rise in strong support of this legislation. I would like to speak to specifically the environmental license plate. Representative Rutherford was gracious enough to allow me to put my Bill within this Committee Bill so we could move it along. I would like to take it off the Short Debate, however, with the requisite showing of colleagues on this side of the aisle, but to get back to the environmental license plate concern. As the originator of the environmental license plate last year, we have really made some strides in sales around the state of Illinois. I think we've raised about over a half a million dollars in money that goes into the special state park fund for enhancing our state parks. The tremendous design of the environmental license plate that currently is allowed on automobiles and pickup trucks, certainly is a very attractive license plate. As a matter of fact, I just want to applaud the Department of Conservation and the designers who took all the time to design the plate, 'cause really it's a beautiful license plate compared to a lot of the 136  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day other license April 20, 1995 plates around the country. So, this environmental license plate expands the opportunity for those individuals that own recreational vehicles and vans and other trailers and other vehicles that are precluded right now under the current law to purchase environmental license plates. So, I urge my colleagues on this side of the aisle, not only to support that part, but the entire Bill."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg. You heard your colleague, Representative Novak, indicate that he urges your support for this Bill and I assume you'll support it and keep your remarks brief."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, thank goodness on most occasions, I disagree with Representative Novak. So, I have to do my own questions to make sure that this is a good Bill. Representative Rutherford is the main Sponsor. That tells me there's a lot of credibility to it, but unfortunately Representative Novak is on it as well, so that leads to a great deal of questions. So."

"Proceed, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. Representative Rutherford, may I? Dan, on the Bill as introduced, I believe with Amendment #1, it eliminated all the special funds and put those into one fund. Is that correct?"

"Representative Rutherford."

"Yes, Representative, that is correct. I do want to highlight though that since then we've put on Amendment 2, so I can make sure you're talking from the current amended version."

"Representative Granberg."

"Did Amendment #2 then, change the provision that all 137  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 the funds would be deposited into just the one special fund? How did that change that previous provision?"

"Representative Rutherford."

"Well, yes, it is correct that all of those other special plate funds that when the General Assembly created these special license plates, they set up separate funds for those. As a recommendation to the State Comptroller, the Treasurer, and our Secretary of State, we're trying to be more efficient in regards to our accounting process and put them all into one called now today, the special plate fund. What Amendment 2 did was basically put in the effective dates that this would take place. October Ist, 1995 will be the effective date to transfer all moneys that were already established in those other funds and would take January 1 of 1996 as the effective date for the new environmental, for the recreational vehicle's special plate to begin."

"Representative Granberg."

"And Representative, I know that the Secretary of State is very efficient administrator and does a remarkably good job in that office, so, but I just want to make sure that was the case and secondly, with the fund transfer, I assume that this all would extend the environmental plate, but extend the other special use funds as well for other plates? Would this also apply to other special use vehicle plates or just the environmental plate?"

"Representative Rutherford."

"I think I'm answering your question you asked, but in regards to the special plate fund, what that is gonna do is from the previous special plates we've had and hopefully for special plates that may be created in the future, that we will all be working with just one fund, rather than all 138  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 these multiple funds within the state treasury and the comptroller's office."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Representative. Now the environmental plate has been a success, I understand from the Secretary of State's Office. So, if there is a change in any of these plates, that is the demand lessens substantially, where it would no longer be feasible to issue these plates, would then that provision in the fund be changed? How would that be administered if one of these plates would be abolished at some point in the future?"

"Representative Rutherford."

"To address the issue on the environmental plate, we already have the environmental plate, which we already know. What we're doing is expanding the type of vehicle that these could go on, which now would be permitted to go onto recreational vehicles. In regards to the special plate fund, what we're doing again is consolidating a bunch of plate funds out there into one generic plate fund. If for some reason a special plate does not have the volume to justify its existence, that fund would still exist, it's just that those revenues from that special plate would not be going into that fund."

"Representative Granberg."

"So, if that plate was abolished, then the balance of that fund would roll over into the newly created fund and that would be used for any and all special plates, is that correct?"

"Representative Rutherford."

"That is correct."

"Representative Granberg."

"And what does the Secretary of State anticipate with 139  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 the expansion of the environmental plate to other vehicles? Do they project any significant number?"

"Representative Rutherford."

"Thank you, Representative. We're not sure at this time what type of an estimate would be, but the advantage in what this is, is we are already making environmental plates. We are already issuing those. We've already got the process there. It's basically we're just expanding the population that these could potentially go on. So anything that would happen would definitely be a net increase."

"Representative Granberg, please bring your remarks to a close."

"Thank you and, Representative, when we talk about these special funds, in no way whatsoever would these special funds be used to take the place of General Revenue Funds. That is to free up, use these funds to replace General Revenue Funds in the Secretary of State's Office. This fund is set up specifically for this purpose so these funds cannot be transferred for the general operations, for any division within the Secretary of State's Office, for any current day to day operation whatsoever, is that correct?"

"Representative Rutherford."

"Thank you for the question, Representative. You are correct that this is a dedicated fund set up specifically to handle the cost and administration of the special plate process here in our state."

"Further discussion? Representative Cross. Representative Cross, further discussion?"

"I'd like to move the previous question, Mr. Speaker."

"Representative Cross moves the previous question be put. The question is, 'Shall the previous 140  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 question be put?' All those in favor signify by saying 'aye'; all opposed signify by saying 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. Representative Rutherford is recognized to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would ask for a favorable roll call, I would highlight that there's been a good cooperative effort on this with Representative Mautino, Representative Novak on the Democratic side and on this initiative by Secretary of State, George Ryan,"

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 2080 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 107 voting 'aye', 0 voting 'nay', 9 voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 2123."

"House Bill 2123, a Bill for an Act amending the School Code. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Hughes."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House Bill 2123, amends the School Code providing that if two of the last three school years the mean IGAP test scores of the students of a school district for each grade in which an IGAP test in the same curricular area is administered is no less than 120% of the mean of the statewide scores of all students in those same grades who take the same test, the district is exempt for the two succeeding school years from all requirements of the school improvement plan and recognition process relating to the curricular area in which the mean of the 141  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 IGAP test scores of the students of the district attained the required level. Adds other related provisions, including provisions relative to the statement of exemption that a district files with the State Board of Education. I doubt there's anyone in this room who hasn't heard repeatedly from teachers, school administrators, about the onerous burden of paperwork, the onerous burden on teachers time out of the classroom to meet the requirements of the IGAP program. The purpose of this Bill is to recognize that there are schools in this state doing an outstanding job, to encourage them to maintain their performance. To reward them for that performance, to encourage schools who have not achieved that level; to give them a goal of reaching the 120% of mean to be relieved of this burden. It is also the purpose of this Bill to divert scarce resources to those schools which need the support of the state most. I would be happy to answer questions."

"Any discussion? The Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative Boland."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to rise in support of this Bill. As a former teacher, I can recall much time that basically was wasted in this constant testing when your students were already performing above and beyond, you might say, the norm. Would also say that it also allows then the state board to concentrate more on those districts that...that needs some help and needs some encouragement and so forth. So, I commend this Bill and would thank the Lady for doing it. One last comment though, I would make is that this seems to me to be the right approach to be taking rat rather than what we did earlier which was to give 900 and some school districts the power to waive various mandates. This is by far a more 'surgical approach' rather 142  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 than that 'meat ax' approach, which I think is going to cause just more bureaucratic nonsense. And cause us to be here in the Legislature as the court of last resorts. Thank you."

"Further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Pugh."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to yield my time to Representative Dart."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Dart."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative, I...this looks like a very good Bill. I have some questions on it, but when you were talking about what teachers were crying out for. They were very well crying out for the reduction of paperwork. One of the other things I...the only thing I keep hearing from them is regards to funding and there was a fund education first Amendment that was filed on this one. But, I don't think...is that on here?"

"Representative Hughes."

"No, it is not."

"Representative Dart."

"Are there any Amendments on this Bill or is this Bill as it was originally introduced?"

"Representative Hughes."

"The Bill is in the form as introduced."

"Representative Dart."

"The thrust of what you're doing is the reduction of paperwork and the testing. It is because these schools have achieved a certain level. Is there any concern that they...that...by removing this school plan that that's what got them to achieve that level and that they don't have to 143  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 submit this paperwork. Is that a potential problem, at all?"

"Representative Hughes."

"First of all, the thrust is not so narrowly defined as to reduce paperwork. That is a substantial portion of it. The thrust of it is to recognize, that for the state to impose at the top the identical process and procedure on every school district in the state, irrespective of whether it is the best performing or the worst performing, makes no sense at all. We ought to recognize that there are many schools in every portion of the state from the City of Chicago to Centralia, that are doing an excellent job. They are doing it on their own. They have found a...an effective policy for developing school improvement planning of their own design. That ought to be recognized and we ought to focusing our resources for those schools who have not achieve as well in order to help them do better for their students. It recognizes limited resources, it recognizes the ability of people to come up with a better way to do things and to reward them for doing so."

"Representative Dart."

"And, how would this allow for the focus of the resources to be at those lower achieving schools?"

"Representative Hughes."

"I'm sorry, I didn't catch the first part of that."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, could we please have your attention on this important Bill? Representative Dart."

"How would this allow for the focused, the resources be focused on these lower achieving schools then?"

"Representative Hughes."

"Because the cost of this program to the state currently 144  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 is spread out over every school district in the state. By allowing for those who qualify to be exempted for that two year period of time. It focuses those resources to a narrower base."

"Representative Dart."

"Do you have an idea of just about how much money we're talking that can be reallocated or refocussed.?"

"Representative Hughes."

"I do not."

"Representative Dart."

"I hate to get nit-picky on this but, is it a substantial amount of money or we're just...we're not real sure?"

"Representative Hughes."

"I can't answer how much money but I would say, that more significant than money is the principle, that where people are doing the job right they ought not to have a process imposed upon them which is costing money, time and resources that are being drained directly out of student teacher contact, classroom contact."

"Representative Dart."

"Could...would this be...if this Bill were not to pass, would this be a requirement that based on the legislation that was previously passed dealing with mandate waivers and the like. Would the provisions of that Bill allow for schools that are achieving to waive things such as this or is this needed, because that's not covered under waivers?"

"Representative Hughes."

"I'm having trouble hearing you. I thought you were asking relative to the previous fast track Legislation, would that Legislation allow for this to take place without this to take place without this Bill. I don't believe so, and that's why I pursued this Bill." 145  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995

"Representative Dart, please bring your remarks to a close."

"Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, think this is a good idea. It makes sense, eminent sense and I commend the Sponsor for the work on this. My only...it's wasn't a concern, I was that I was just trying to see if this were some overlap between this and the mandate waiver. I just wasn't sure but, thank you."

"Further discussion? Representative Mitchell."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of this particular House Bill. We finally see something that will reward schools for a good effort. We're quick to criticize those schools that do not do well. We spend all of our time and resources and worry on those who did not do well with no incentive for those that are at the top or close to the top, to reach a top position. Those schools that come close to reaching the maximums needed to waive the IGAP test for two years will certainly work even a little harder in order to achieve that goal. And to put something out there at least to strive for, only makes good sense if we're trying to encourage students to strive for academic excellence. I commend Representative Hughes for this effort, and I think this is a great step for school districts that are trying to conserve their resources and their teacher time for even more advanced academic excellence. I would suggest that everyone in this room should support this measure. Thank you."

"Further discussion? The Gentlemen from Danville, Representative Black. Representative Black."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous question."

"Representative Black has moved the previous 146  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 question be put. The question is, 'Shall the previous question be put?' All in favor signify by saying 'aye'; opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. The question is now put. Representative Hughes to close."

"This is a great Bill for good education for Illinois students everywhere. Please vote 'yes'."

"The question is, 'Shall House 2123 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 106 voting 'aye', 0 voting 'no', 10 voting 'present'. In the opinion of the Chair a Constitution Majority, is hereby declared and this Bill, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 2204."

"House Bill 2204, a Bill for an Act that amends the Illinois Identification Card Act. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Zickus."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. House Bill 2204, amends the Identification Card Act and the Illinois Vehicle Code to provide that all identification cards are subject to the provisions of the Act. It defines the identification card to include in addition to Illinois I.D. cards and Illinois disabled persons I.D. cards. All I.D. cards issued by any state or federal government or quasi-governmental to entity. It clarifies that it is illegal to advertise any information or materials which promote the selling, giving or furnishing of a fraudulent drivers license, permit or I.D. card. Currently in Illinois it is illegal to advertise any information or 147  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 materials which promote the selling, giving or furnishing of the fraudulent driver's license or...to do that but the Illinois law contains clear and comprehensive violations regarding dealing in fraudulent or altered I.D. cards. However, there's no such provision for dealing in out-of-state I.D.s, and licenses. Many fake I.D. dealers who sell to minors are aware that Illinois law does not provide penalties for those who produce or sell only fake or out-of-state documents. So, this legislation would close that loophole and allow Illinois law enforcement shut down those dealing solely in out-of-state I.D. cards and it's an initiative of the Secretary of State. I urge an 'aye' vote."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Scott."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative, in Amendment #6, to the Bill. Is that part of the Bill now?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Yes."

"Representative Scott."

"It's...on page 3, of that Amendment it talks about any information or materials that promote the selling, giving, or furnishing of a fraudulent driver's license. Could you clarify for us a little bit more of what you mean by that particular phrase?"

"Representative Zickus."

"The people who are providing these fake I.D. cards cannot advertise that fact."

"Representative Scott."

"Is there anything further to follow in that, in a way of 148  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day further definition of that? I mean, is that left up to April 20, 1995 going to be a particular states attorney if he decides it wants to charge that as an offense or not?"

"Representative Zickus."

"The Bill is closing a loophole, right now there is nothing in the law that says that they cannot sell an out-of-state I.D. card. And this Amendment was more of a technical Amendment to amend the Vehicle Code which should have been included in the first place and I think we went over most of that the other day when we adopted it."

"Representative Scott." language that appears in the rest of the

"So, the language in Amendment #6, is merely the same statute with respect to instate driver's license as opposed to out-of-state driver licenses."

"Representative Zickus." Zickus.

Representative Zickus: "I said, yes."

"Representative Scott." "Would this apply...this Bill apply, Representative, to all kinds of I.D. card that are furnished by the Secretary of States Office, not just driver's licenses but also state identification cards?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Yes, and with this change in the law it will also include out-of-state."

"Representative Scott."

"In the original form of the Bill, there didn't seem to be a provision to make the possession or use or giving of these driver licenses or I.D. cards, there didn't seem to be any intent that was part of the statute that there wasn't a knowing element, was that corrected in Amendments 149  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day to the Bill?"

"Representative Zickus."

"I...would you repeat your question, please?"

"Representative Scott."

"I'm sorry, that was a little confuse...I asked in a confusing way. Is there an element inside this Bill now so that the person that is possessing or using or transferring one of these fraudulent driver licenses, that he knows that it's fraudulent?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Yes, if he is someone...are you talking about presenting it or possessing it? It's hard to hear you."

"Representative Scott. Let's give the Representative your attention, please. Representative Scott."

"Well, since it covers much more than presenting it, now we're talking about possession, transfer, advertising for these types of I.D. cards. Is there an element in there that the person who may commit this offense has to know that he's committing it? Or is it something that you could do innocently or negligently?"

"Representative Zickus."

"It's only regarding fake I.D.s. So, that person would know that it's a fake or fraudulent I.D., that's what this change addresses."

"Representative Scott."

"I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you on that one. I apologize for that. Do they...does the person have to know that the I.D. is fraudulent in order to come under the provisions of this particular statute?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Yes." 150  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"Representative Scott."

"Are there...it's two questions at once, maybe I can shorten up that way. Are there any known opponents to the Bill and second, are there other states that have the same kind of thing as a light compact is with respect to traffic tickets. Are there other states that will...that will also have the same type of Bill to protect against Illinois I.D's. that are fraudulent?"

"Representative Zickus."

"To answer your first question, I know of no opposition. In fact, one of the high schools in our district, Lions Township High School, the students in the American Government class have adopted this Bill to be part of their class project. Even the young teenagers are aware that it is a problem. Many young teens..."

"Representative Zickus, please...you may finish answering the question."

"The other states...Virginia has the program but Illinois is seen as one of the leaders."

"Representative Scott, are you seeking addition...oh, thank you. Representative Zickus, is recognized to close. This matter is on Short Debate. Representative Zickus."

"Thank you. I think this is a very good piece of legislation and it will probably help a lot of our young people and I urge your 'aye' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 2204 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 109 voting 'aye', 0 voting 'nay', 7 151  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day voting April 20, 1995 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, what's the status of House Bill 2230?"

"House Bill 2230, is on the Order of Third Reading."

"Mr. Clerk, please return the Bill to the Order of Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 2236,"

"House Bill 2236, a Bill for an Act amending the Code of Criminal Procedure of 1963. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Durkin."

"Mr. Speaker, this Bill deals with the Post Conviction Act. What we are doing with this Bill is requiring a defendant to file his or her post conviction hearing petition within 45 days after the defendant files his or her appellate brief with the Supreme Court of Illinois. What this Bill is doing, we're targeting with this Bill or the unending frivolous Motions filed in death penalty cases. We're saying in this area, especially in the post conviction area, let it come to closure, file your post conviction Motion within 45 days after you file your appeal to the Illinois Supreme Court. I'm asking for a favorable vote."

"Is there any discussion? Representative Davis. Representative Monique Davis." Davis, M.: "I'd like to yield my time to the honorable Representative Tommy Dart."

"Representative Dart was not seeking recognition. The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Scott. Further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative, will you yield 152  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 for a couple of questions here?"

"He indicates he will."

"What is the precise period of time you're limiting for this?"

"Representative Durkin."

"I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question, please?"

"Representative Dart."

"Speak into the mike."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Initially I want to take this off Short Debate and I'm joined by appropriate number of colleagues."

"I don't see Representative Deering's hand. It'll be so removed. You may proceed Representative Dart."

"Thanks Jim. The...the...what is the time period you're contracting here? Contracting it to?"

"Representative Durkin."

"Representative, what we're saying is that after a...we're limiting the...the time period for a defendant to file a post conviction, for post conviction relief. It must filed within 45 days after the defendant files his or her brief with the Illinois Supreme Court."

"Representative Dart."

"Fourty-five days after they file their brief with the Appellate Court, is this...is this their post conviction brief or is this their initial appeal?"

"Representative Durkin."

"This is strictly...this is just a post conviction brief. This is 45 days after the...the...after the direct appeal has been filed with the Supreme Court."

"Representative Dart."

"It's 45 days after the direct appeal is filed with the Supreme Court, meaning the...the appeal is filed or the 153  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 decision is finalized by the Appellate Court. What I'm getting at is that if I'm not mistaken under the statutes that requires that the...the direct appeal to be exhausted before the post conviction or can two of them be going on at the same time?"

"Representative Durkin."

"Well theoretically, yes. What we're doing is when you file your appeal with...the direct appeal to the Illinois Supreme Court. As you know as being a former prosecutor, that will take a substantial period of time and for the Illinois Supreme Court to render a decision. Under the Post Conviction Act, after you file the PC within 45 days after you file your brief, the Act...further language in the Act states that there must be a decision rendered back by the Trial Court within 90 days after that filing period. So that decision from...from the Trial Court regarding the post conviction issues will be resolved before the Illinois Supreme Cart... Illinois Supreme Court will be able...before they render a decision on their direct appeal."

"Representative Dart."

"Would this cause any federal constitutional problems because of that, because I...I mean I agree with you wholeheartedly. I can't recall in the...the time I was there where a post conviction was even granted. They're often the most frivolous of law suits, but there was definitely problems that I had from that unit in our office when we were there that because of the timing and based on Federal Court requirements and mandates, is this going to run into any problems with that?"

"Representative Durkin."

"No."

"Representative Dart." 154  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995

"Will this in any way impact any of the habeas corpus proceedings?"

"Representative Durkin."

"Absolutely not. This will not inhibit anybody from filing a habeas corpus writ or taking the direct appeal to the Illinois Supreme Court or even moving it beyond to the United States Supreme Court."

"Representative Dart."

"Would they be able to do the federal habeas at the same time or are they going to have to wait until the direct and the post conviction is exhausted?"

"Representative Durkin."

"Unfortunately Representative Dart, you can file a habeas corpus writ at any time after conviction."

"Representative Dart."

"So, so then there will be no impact whatsoever on the Federal Court system as far as any type of action in there?"

"Representative Durkin."

"That's correct. This will not have any affect on the federal court system. As you know the Post Conviction Act and any type of post conviction Motions are rendered by the Trial Court. It would have nothing...no impact on the Federal Court or on any courts of review."

"Representative Dart."

"Yes, I was more concerned with the timing of it because the timing has always been a factor in our Appellate Division that they always brought to my concern, and I'm trying to get an idea of how this is going to have any impact whatsoever in the grand scheme with him because as I mentioned, I couldn't agree with you more. I am not and never have been a big fan of post conviction appeals 155  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day period, to April 20, 1995 but I wanted to make sure that...what we're doing here isn't in any way going actually cause a more problem when we're starting. Than we're trying to get rid of."

"Representative Durkin."

"This Bill will improve the timing of the filing. As you know Representative Dart under the current statutory scheme, a defendant can file for PC relief up until three years...three years from the date of conviction or, or even up to six months after deny served by the United States Supreme Court, and We all know that could take forever. There is actually no way to put a time table on it. We're just putting some reasonable grounds in which you can file a post conviction relief in which a Trial Court will be able to render a decision."

"Representative Dart, please bring your remarks to a close."

"Yes, just a back from first, feelings on this. I have a feeling I know what it is and they're in favor of it. But just as importantly from the Trial Courts, the judiciary, as far as what their feelings are on this and...are they going to have any problems with this new contracted time frame?" final question then. Have you got any feed the State's Attorney's office on their

"Representative Durkin."

"There should be no problem. Is Representative Dart...as we both remember back in our days at...in Cook County, the number of cases which came back..."

"Representative Dart. Further discussion of former prosecutors. The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Scott."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?" 156  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"The prosecutor indicates he will."

"I used to be one of those too, at one time."

"I understand that."

"Does this provision which...which deletes the...the provision which used to provide if there's no culpable negligence on behalf of the filer, the delay could be...could go on for longer. Now we've deleted that from this particular Bill?"

"Representative Durkin."

"Yes. Under the present statutory scheme, you are allowed to file for post conviction relief. As it states, no proceedings under this Article shall be commenced more than six months after the denial of a petition for leave to appeal, or the date for filing for such a petition if none is issued, or issuance of an opinion from the Illinois Supreme Court or six months after the date of an order denying cert by United States Supreme Court or the date for filing such a petition if none is filed or three years from the date of conviction, which ever is later. As you can tell, what we're doing is we're eliminating as I previously mentioned, these post conviction Motions which linger on for years and years and which go through a number of different hands and the Trial Courts were saying bring it back within a reasonable amount of time."

"Representative Scott."

"But, and I don't necessarily disagree with that concept at all, but by deleting the provision that...that did not allow for a delay, if the delay wasn't due to the culpable negligence of the filer. What...say we had a hypothetical situation where you learn facts that the jury was bought off, for example. Two years or three...or three plus years down the road and you...and there by under the statute now 157  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 the way it's written, we...we've blown that. Is there, is...would that still be covered a different way under this particular provision or is that person just out of luck too?"

"Representative Durkin."

"Absolutely not. That person would be allowed the privilege of the Habeas Corpus Act too, if there was new evidence which needs to brought in and which a court would have to grant a rehearing. That is the avenue in which a defendant would take to present new evidence. As you said if there was a question of whether or not there was jury tampering or evidence discovered at a later date which would be of the exculpatory nature."

"Representative Scott."

"And you made...you were probably in it a lot sooner than I was here recently, but the federal habeas corpus provisions if you can refresh me on that, does that...would that allow for that kind of filing at any time or are there time limits also in the federal law? I'm a little scared these days with the amount of federal legislation that's passing too that...that some of these things might happen as well."

"Representative Durkin."

"There is no time frame in the federal... Habeas Corpus Act. We have no control over that system but, there's...there is no time frame in which somebody would be denied access to the federal courts under the Federal Habeas Corpus section."

"Representative Scott."

"The Amendment #35 became...became the Bill itself?"

"Representative Durkin."

"That's.. that's correct." 158  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Scott." April 20, 1995

"And the major changes between that and the original Bill are...are what?"

"Representative Durkin."

"What we've done is that just the 45 day period is the major portion of the Bill which we have amended. Are you...is your inquiry as to the first Bill or the previous Bill? The previous Bill what we...what we asked for is that I believe it was...the first Bill was six months after date of conviction. That would be the time frame in which...the original version of the Bill limited the time of filing, a post conviction petition to six months after conviction."

"Representative Scott."

"And that's been...that's been changed now to the 45 day provision?"

"Representative Durkin."

"It's been changed to 45 days upon the filing of a brief...the direct appeal brief to the Illinois Supreme Court."

"Representative Scott."

"And the reason for tying it to the filing of the...of the brief is, is what?"

"Representative Durkin."

"That would be for the purposes of establishing and preparing the record for the review."

"Representative Scott."

"Representative Dart correctly points out that you were in the middle of answering his question when his time expired and we've got about a minute left maybe. His question was there...the judiciary's feelings about this Bill with respect to the contact...contracted time frames, will that 159  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 pose some additional burdens on them?"

"Representative Durkin."

"I see...I see no problem with the Trial Courts, what the frustration in the Trial Courts right now is that they're receiving post conviction Motions up to four or five years after the case has been disposed of the Trial Court level. What this Bill do...the case will go back to the Trial Court. There still will be witnesses available if there is any type of evidentiary hearing which will be mandated by the Trial Court and if this be information which is still going to be the fresh in the minds of the people who are involved with the case. You see cases right now which up to five, ten years go by different judges have heard the case, witnesses are either gone from this earth or they're departed the jurisdiction and it's very difficult to track them down. This makes good sense, it's a question of judicial economy. A Trial Court would not be objected...would not object to this Amendment."

"Representative Scott, please bring your remarks to a close. There are other former prosecutor's seeking recognition."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Representative. I appreciate your answers."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Vermilion, want to be prosecutor, Representative Black."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous question."

"Representative Black moves that the previous question be put. The question is, 'Shall the previous question be put?' All those in favor, say 'aye'; those opposed, signify by saying 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair 'ayes' have it, the previous question is put. 160  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day Representative Durkin, to close."

"This Bill recognizes the rights of victims and their family member...family members. Our legal system has spent a number of decades catering to the accused. Today we are reminding the legal system not to forget the rights of the rest of us. As you know after a defendant has been convicted by a jury of his peers, sentenced to death by a jury of his peers there is a right to review by higher courts. However, review must end at some time. It cannot linger due to frivolous post trial Motions. This hopefully will bring closure to the grieving family members. This Bill brings integrity back to the system. I ask for a favorable vote."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 2236 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 102 voting 'aye', 3 voting 'no', 10 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Clerk, read House Bill 2278."

"House Bill 2278, a Bill for an Act amending the Law Enforcement Officers, Civil Defense Workers, Civil Air Patrol Members, Paramedics, Firemen and State Employees Compensation Act. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Bost."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. House Bill 22...2278, amends the Law Enforcement Office (sic-Officers), Civil Defense Workers, Civil Air Patrol Members, Paramedics, Firemen, State Employees and also as amended the Illinois National Guardsman's Compensation Act. 161  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 It increases the compensation of...for the line of duty death benefit from $50,000 to $100,000. It also provides that the Act also applies to police and fire chaplains and changes the short title of the Act from the Law Enforcement Officers, Civil Defense Workers, Civil Air Patrol Members, Paramedics, Firemen, Chaplains, to State Employees Compensation Act. I'd be happy to answer any questions on it."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes Representative Lang."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He says he will."

"Thank you. Representative, I note in my file that you resisted House Amendment #1, to your Bill which would have provided money for more police on the street. Can you tell us why you resisted that Amendment?"

"Representative Black (sic-Lang), please restrict your comments to the Bill before it."

"Well, that is on the Bill, Sir."

"It is not on the Bill, Representative Lang. Will you, please restrict your comments to the contents of the Bill that is being presented by Representative Bost?"

"Sure, I'll ask the question in a different way. Representative, why didn't you use this Bill to put more police on the street?"

"Representative Lang, please restrict your comments to the contents of the Bill. What's in it, what's not in it."

"Well, all right. Representative Bost, is there anything in your Bill regarding police on the street?"

"Representative Bost."

"This Bill...this Bill deals with increasing the 162  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day compensation for death benefits. It April 20, 1995 doesn't deal with that."

"Representative Lang."

"I beg your pardon. It deals with what? I couldn't understand you. It's very noisy in here, Sir."

"Ladies and Gentleman, let's give the...let's give the Members some attention, please. We can avoid a lot of questions if you'll listen to the discussion being carried on by Representative Lang and Representative Bost. Representative Bost, to the question."

"It...it increases the death benefits. That's what it has to deal with."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, what did Amendment 3, do that your original Bill did not do, Sir?"

"Representative Bost."

"The Amendment 3, added the Illinois National Guardsman's to the Act. And basically they had been forgotten before so looked...anytime this Act had been moved up before and we wanted to be sure and include them in that. So, we changed the wording so from here on out, they will be included in that."

"Representative Lang."

"Was there anybody opposed to your Bill in committee?"

"Representative Bost."

"No."

"Representative Lang."

"Your municipal league was not opposed to your Bill?"

"Representative Bost."

"No, there was no slip turned in."

"Representative Lang."

"Are prison officials included in your Bill, Sir?" 163  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Bost."

"No, they're not."

"Representative Lang." April 20, 1995

"How are prison officials compensated upon death?"

"Representative Bost."

"I don't know what he asked. Just let me hear what he said."

"Representative Lang. Ladies and Gentleman of the House, it's very difficult to hear. If you would give these Gentlemen your attention, we could move on with the business of the House. Representative Lang, Representative Bost, did not hear the question."

"You indicated, prison officials are not in your Bill. How are they compensated upon their death?"

"Representative Bost."

"I'm not sure how they're compensated."

"Representative Lang."

"How is this going to be paid for, Sir?"

"Representative Bost."

"I didn't hear him. Can you repeat your question, please?"

"Representative Lang."

"Sure, I'll repeat the question. How will this Bill be paid for, if we're doubling the benefits, the money has to come from some place. Where will it come from?"

"Representative Bost."

"It will be appropriated through the court of claims."

"Representative Lang."

"Don't we already underfund the court of claims. Don't they currently already have trouble paying all the claims that are brought to them?"

"Representative Bost."

"Not for these particular Acts." 164  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Lang." April 20, 1995

"Well, do they have a surplus today in the account that they pay the benefits from?"

"Representative Bost."

"I don't know the answer to that question."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, if you don't know if they have enough money today and we've had a court of claims for many, many years and you can't guarantee us today whether there will be a sufficient appropriation for the unknown number of claims that will come forward. How do you know we'll be able to pay the claims?"

"Representative Bost."

"I don't believe that this is a dollar and cents issue. This one has to deal with the fact that if a person is killed on the line of duty, then I feel as we as a state owe their family payment that is sufficient for their services that they rendered their life in the line of duty for this state."

"Representative Lang, please bring your remarks to a close."

"Well, I support that, Sir. I'm just concerned about how we're going to pay for it. If an Appropriation Bill comes through this Body that does not put sufficient funds in there. Will you be amending it to add more funds to cover the claims?"

"Representative Bost."

"If...if the court of claims does not have sufficient funding, they have a second Appropriation Bill and..."

"Representative Bost, please proceed to answer the question. Electrician, please turn Representative Bost on." 165  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day Bost: Speaker April 20, 1995 "The court of claims has the second appropriation allotment if they run out of fund."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Williamson, Representative Woolard."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to yield my time to Representative Lang."

"Representative Lang, further discussion."

"Thank you, and thank you, Representative Woolard. Representative, the court of claims...should I wait why you're having your conversation. Are you all set to listen? Thank you. The court of claims has a lot of claims of all kinds of people and claimants coming through them every year. Does your Bill set up any kind of priority. Let's assume the court of claims has 'X' dollars worth of claims but only half of 'X' dollars worth of money. Is there some priority for these folks?"

"Representative Bost."

"This Bill does not deal with that issue."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, what about all the debts then that the State of Illinois has? So, when you increase these benefits with no guarantee of increasing the appropriation, don't you run the risk that all kinds of different providers and claimants that send their claims through that body, will not get paid?"

"Representative Lang, please restrict your comments to the content of the Bill and not to other claims."

"Sir, that is the content of the Bill."

"Representative Bost."

"As I said before, Representative, I don't think it is a dollar and cent issue on this. It's the fact that these 166  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 people are in service to the state. If they pass away in the line of duty then it's necessary for us to compensate them."

"Representative Lang."

"But, Sir, couldn't you say that in every department of this state? You could say, well, DCFS needs $80 million more to do their work next year and so, we're going to pass a Bill that requires them to spend it but we're not going to give them the money. So, that's the same argument. So, we could say that for DCFS, or corrections or any other department or agency of the state. So, the question is, you can't just ignore the money. What are you going to do to get the money to pay these claims?"

"Representative Bost."

"Difference between these people and the other departments is, the died protecting someone and doing a job to protect. They are in service work to protect and to help. They are in service work that puts them in a line of danger. This is not a money issue."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, let me ask you this, Sir. But let me first tell you, I support your concept. This isn't an issue about whether we should do this, it's how will we do this. You keep answering whether. We're all going to say, you should do this. Now, we want to know from you how you're going to do this. How are you going to pay for this program. You can't simply say, well it's so important that well we'll probably get to it somewhere down the line. You...if you're going to propose a Bill that's going to have a cost to it, we have to know how much the court of claims is going to have to increase their budget. We're going to have to know how they're going to get that money and were 167  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 it's going to come from. These additional funds aren't in the Governor's budget, are they?"

"Representative Bost."

"Representative, the court of claims has appropriated $2.6 million in the FY'95 budget."

"Representative Lang."

"So, it has been appropriated."

"Representative Lang."

"I don't believe the Governor's budget contemplated you doubling these benefits. Did it?"

"Representative Bost."

"Could you repeat the question, please?"

"Representative Lang."

"I'll be happy to. The Governor's budget did not contemplate you doubling these benefits. Did it?"

"Representative Bost."

"The previous claims have not been enough in the past few years that there was a deficit on the budget. These appropriations that were set aside, the claims over the last several years on...claims on fire were...since 1991, there has been nine. The claims on police since 1991, have been 42. It did not...it did not draw the money completely out of those claims...or out of the court of claims or out of the money that was set aside. This increase is a very practical idea and...that's my answer, Sir."

"Representative Lang. Please, bring your remarks to a close."

"Have there been any years in which the number of claims, if doubled, this is what your doing here, would put us in a deficit situation."

"Representative Bost."

"Not that I'm aware of." 168  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"Representative Bost. Please turn on, Representative Bost. Further discussion? The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous question."

"Representative Black, has moved that the previous question put. The question is, 'Shall the previous question be put?' All those in favor signify by saying 'aye'; those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the previous question is put. Representative Bost is recognized to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the House. This is a good Bill, it is in support of the people that serve us. I ask for a 'yes' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 2278 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 106 'ayes', 0 'nays', 8 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Clerk, Introductions and Resolutions."

"Introduction Resolutions. House Resolution #33, offered by Representative Ryder; House Resolution #34, offered by Representative Churchill. Rules Committee."

"Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 1802."

"House Bill 1802, a Bill for an Act that amends the Liquor Control Act, 1934. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Leitch."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 169  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 House. House Bill 1802, is a Bill that prevents a practice in the selling of beer, which is known as high spotting. High spotting means that some distributors of beer have a tendency or look for a practice to overlook the Mom and Pop places and simply distribute to the larger accounts at the disadvantage of the Mom and Pop places in the smaller, smaller accounts. This has been more commonly occurring now with a number of the smaller breweries since the vast majority of the larger breweries are complying with the law that presently prevents high spotting. What this Bill does would...would be to make it clear and clarify that the smaller breweries should not be permitted to high spot in Illinois and it's a simple Bill. It came out of committee unanimously and I would appreciate a favorable Roll Call."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes Representative Mautino."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Now, Representative Leitch, just to clarify, this is a Bill which has been put forward by the Beer Distributors and the Retail Liquor Association. They're in agreement on it, correct?"

"Representative Leitch."

"Yes, thank you, Representative. There is agreement on this Bill, all the parties to my knowledge are on board, as you imply by your question. In the past this has been a controversial issue, today it is not."

"Representative Mautino."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill. Now, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in support of House Bill 1802. This is a measure which Representative Leitch, and I worked together on last year. An opposition to the Bill 170  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 has been removed. It deals with the problem which came out of California and a number of the distributorships who were setting their volume based deals too high for a lot of the Mom and Pop taverns, restaurants, and bars to purchase on. So, it became discrimination practice. You're right, discriminatory practice and the change which was requested on the Bill itself would insure that each of the accounts throughout and assigned distributorship territory, get the quality of service on all products. It has been requested and it's an actual tightening of the language of the existing law which was suggested by the Beer Distributors themselves. So, I would appreciate your support on this and urge an 'aye' vote. Thank you."

"Representative Leitch, is recognized to close. This Bill is on the Order of Short Debate. Representative Leitch."

"It's a good Bill and I would ask your favorable support. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 1802 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 114 'ayes', 0 'nays', 0 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 2321."

"House Bill 2321..."

"The Chair recognizes Representative..."

"...a Bill for an Act that amends the Unified Code of Corrections. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Bost." 171  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"House Bill 2321, requires an inmate at a April 20, 1995 Department of Correction facility to pay a $2 co-pay per visit to a place outside the institution for non-emergency medical or dental services and provides the amount for the co-payment shall be deducted from the inmate's individual account. And I'll answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes Representative Dart."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm joined by an appropriate number of colleagues to take this off Short Debate."

"I don't see enough hands, Representative Dart."

"Look around, you'll see them."

"Oh, there's...I see, there's Representative Deering's arm...arms. Okay. Thank you. It will SO be removed."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, what...Amendment 3, does that become the Bill?"

"Representative Bost."

"Would you repeat the question."

"Representative Dart."

"Is Amendment 3, become the Bill?"

"Representative Bost."

"Yes."

"Representative Dart."

"What is the thrust of what we're trying to accomplish here. What is it that you're trying to get done?"

"Representative Bost."

"We have several inmates who for various reasons, possibly other than medical, are traveling outside just for a chance 172  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 to be away from the facility and the cost though this will not take care of the cost completely, will hopefully detour those from abusing the system."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, please give them your attention, please. Representative Dart."

"Thank you. Then, Representative, you'd say then the thrust has not so much to do with the fiscal implications as it is as a deterrent that you're trying to send a statement out to inmates."

"Representative Bost."

"That's one reason. There's also a fiscal problem that can be helped here. By no means can we take care of the total cost but this will help tremendously in the cost, in the fact that, you know, at least it adds about $10,000 to those cost of carrying these inmates off."

"Representative Dart."

"Do you have an estimate of how often the prisoners take advantage of this and leave this...the facilities?"

"Representative Bost."

"Times they actually take advantage, I just know the number of times that they travel off the facility and last year it was 900...or 9,658 times."

"Representative Dart.”

"Were all 9,000 of those times based on medical reasons or were those times where they were also transferring within the system because of problems with their behavior?"

"Representative Bost."

"Those were all medical."

"Representative Dart."

"And what was the cost associated with that?"

"Representative Bost."

"That...those figures are not available. Whatever...what 173  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 the cost of the time involved of the person that had...or the guards that would have to escort them out and the cost of the fuel, the cost of vehicle. But those estimates were not given."

"Representative Dart."

"I...my reason for that was, is because you made a point of saying that one of the things that we're trying to detour here this behavior and I'm trying to get a handle on the cost involved with this just so we know why we're going this is obviously some degree of cost. Do you have like a ball park figure of how much money we're planning on saving with this? Not so much from the medical stand point as we are from the traveling and the like."

"Representative Bost."

"Yeah, we'll actually save well over $9,000."

"Representative Dart."

"So, is that a $1 a trip or is that $9,000 per inmate or $9,000 a year, $9,000 a month?"

"Representative Bost."

"That would be $9,000 annually."

"Representative Dart."

"So, now what you set up then is a co-payment for the prisoners in an effort to detour them from...from using this as an excuse to leave the facility. Is there facilities...is there treatment on grounds for most of the occasions? Is this only going for extraordinary treatment and what type is that, that makes them leave?"

"Representative Bost."

"There is...there is treatment on site. So, this is a special request made by them to go."

"Representative Dart."

"Now, how...if...I see where the money is to be taken out, 174  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 the inmates individual account. I'm not sure, I don't know if you have statistics of what their individual accounts are like, what they average. What would be the case, what would you Bill require if, in fact, the prisoner did not have any money in their individual account or did not have sufficient amount of money to cover something like this. What would happen?"

"Representative Bost."

"Representative Dart, they can acquire a negative balance and that can be paid back when they do earn their $18...they average about $18 a month. So, if they acquire a negative balance, we won't...they won't be denying them service."

"Representative Dart, please bring your remarks to a close."

"Yeah. Just the final question then. If they can, in fact, sort of use it as a credit card in a sense where they can get credit and then pay for it later. What would be the deterrent effect if they can just keep adding this up if they know, they just have to pay it off sometime down the future and never pay?"

"Representative Bost."

"Representative Dart, they use that money for other things besides this and so that would be the deterrent effect."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman with Menard Correctional in his district. Representative Deering."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, you know, earlier this year I introduced a Bill that done several things to the inmates in our prison system, removed the postage stamps and co-pay for electric for television, weights and so on and so 175  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 forth. It didn't have anything to do along the lines in what you're doing here and I commend you for your...your legislation here. I think it's a good idea but I've got a couple of questions and since we have such a well versed person from the department sitting next to you, I'm sure that you can be helped. Do we have medical facilities in our current state correctional institutions presently?"

"Representative Bost."

"Yes, we have medical facilities."

"Representative Deering."

"Representative, couldn't these inmates be served in these facilities that we have? I think...let me ask this question first. Do we have medical physicians and dentists and psychiatrists, so on and so forth, on retainer in the Department of Corrections that could come on site and do a lot of this medical work at the prisons themselves?"

"Representative Bost."

"Yes, we do and most of it is done on site but these...this addresses the problem of those that are requested off site."

"Representative Deering."

"And are these inmates wanting to leave the facility, because they think they can get better service away or is it a procedure that cannot be conducted at the facility or is it just a normal procedure and they just choose to go to another...another place?"

"Representative Bost."

"It could be either or a combination."

"Representative Deering."

"Okay. Representative, a question here. Why didn't you extend this to county jails also, because I know that you and I, and many other Members in the legislature have 176  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 problems with county inmates, you know, that we have to have the same expenditures."

"Representative Bost."

"This Bill at this time just deals with them on the state level but, at a future time I'd be glad to work with you on legislation to do the other."

"Representative Deering."

"Thank you, Representative and with your indulgence, I would appreciate being added as a Chief-Sponsor of this Bill."

"Representative Bost will be glad to abide. Further discussion? The Representative with Danville Correctional Center in his district, Representative Black."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous question."

"Representative Black has moved the previous question be put. The question is, 'Shall the previous question be put?' All those in favor signify by saying 'aye'; opposed signify by saying 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The previous question is put. Representative Bost, is recognized to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. I would just appreciate an affirmative vote on this. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 2321 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question having received 107 'aye' votes, 4 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 2330." 'noes', 5 177  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATI TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"House Bill 2330, a Bill for an Act concerning public health. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Zickus."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. House Bill 2330, has two main Sections. It amends the Communicable Diseases Reporting Act and amends the Lead Poisoning Prevention Act."

"Excuse me, Representative Zickus. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, please give Representative Zickus your attention. And all those who are not entitled to the House Floor, please remove yourselves to the rear of the chamber so we can proceed with the business of this House. You may proceed, Representative Zickus."

"Thank you. This legislation proposes to amend the Lead Poisoning Prevention Act by revising the screening requirement for blood lead screening of children ages 6 months through 6 years. Language is added to require screening for children residing in areas determined by the department to be high risk for lead exposure. Language is also added to specify that children residing in areas defined as low risk by the department shall be assessed for risk by a risk assessment developed by the department. The department also will need to develop risk assessment to be used in screening children at low risk. The legislation will also permit the department to expand its rules regarding the licensure of lead abatement activities to include the Toxic Substance Control Act and the requirements under the federal lead base paint activities regarding litigation, abatement and training. The second provision of the Bill amends a Communicable Disease Reporting Act. The changes made to the Act will include injuries, medical conditions or procedures under the 178  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 confidentiality provisions of the Act."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Schakowsky."

"Thank you, Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative, the Bill which was originally dealt with significant public health events has been amended? Is it now Amendment 1, that is the...that is the Bill?"

"Representative Zickus."

"I'm sorry, I did not hear the end of your question, Representative. It's very noisy in here."

"Representative Schakowsky. Ladies and Gentleman, can the Representatives have your attention, please 50 we can proceed with the business of the House? Representative Schakowsky, proceed."

"My question was, the original Bill was the Public Health Events Reporting Act. Amendment 1, is that now...is that now the Bill in its entirety?"

"Representative Zickus."

"No, it's not."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"So, the original Bill which I thought dealt with issues concerning sexually transmitted diseases, et cetera. It sounded to me in your explanation of the Bill that we're talking only about lead poisoning. Does this Bill go beyond the issue of lead?"

"Representative Zickus."

"The lead poisoning has already been in there and it holds...and it still has the sexually transmitted disease."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"I'm really totally confused then. I'm sorry, Representative, maybe it was just too noisy. Could you 179  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 once again explain the main provisions of this Bill? I'm looking at the original Bill and then at the synopsis of the Amendment. My synopsis of the Amendment says that it deletes the Public Health Events Report Act. So, could you once again explain the provisions of your Bill?"

"Representative Zickus."

"There are two parts to the Bill, but...it does delete that part but it also adds another Section. It says, whenever the statute or ordinance dictates medical practitioners or other persons must report cases of injury, medical condition or procedure communicable disease, venereal disease and sexually transmitted diseases and that the report shall be confidential. Currently the law requires that only communicable diseases be reported, such as venereal disease, or food born illnesses."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"So, your Bill added diseases that have to be reported. Is that what it does?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Wait one moment. It puts reports such as injuries under the Confidentiality Act."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"And the confidentiality portions, does that confidentiality on the part of the injured person, does...or does it relate at all the person who makes the report?"

"Representative Zickus."

"That would be both, Representative."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Even if the reporter is a physician, what's the point in making the reporter...making that person confidential?" 180  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Speaker Wennlund: "Representative Zickus. Zickus." April 20, 1995

Representative Zickus: "To protect them. Just as we're protecting the person who has the disease."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"So, you're saying that...because...is it because the reason for the reporting is for data analysis in collection of the identities of the individuals are not important. Is that the rationale?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Right. That's correct."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Now, to lead...the lead poisoning prevention part of the legislation, I wanted to ask you about. The definitions of high risk areas, in other words, now screening will be limited. Would you explain that?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Right. What brought this change about, there's some concern among parents and physicians that not all children need to be screened for lead poisoning and that the added expense of blood lead screen to a child school health examination could be avoided by some families. The added cost range from $25 to $150 per child and what we're asking now is that the...everybody...everyone will still be assessed for a risk of lead poisoning."

"Representative Zickus."

"I thought I just answered that. And, you know, they will still be assessed. The doctors will still be asking the questions, they may not all need..."

"Turn Representative Zickus, on.

Representative Zickus: "As the doctor will make that determination to see if 181  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 there's...you know, if they live in an environment that has the lead in it, and if they would need to proceed with the blood tests."

"Representative Schakowsky, your time has expired. Please, bring your remarks to a close."

"Well, my hope is that one of my colleagues will give me more time. I don't know if I can take it now or later but..."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson." Johnson, Tim: "Mr. Speaker, I would move the previous question."

"Representative Johnson, has moved the previous question be put. The question is, 'Shall the previous question be put?' All those in favor signify by saying 'aye'; those opposed by saying 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. The previous question. Representative Zickus is recognized to close. Representative Zickus."

"I ask for your approval of House Bill 2330. House Bill 2330, did pass out of the Health Care Committee with 18 votes there was no opposition, everyone on the committee voted in favor of it. I ask for your 'aye' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 2330 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all vote who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 97 'ayes', 9 'noes', 4 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, announcements."

"Committee notice. Rules Committee will meet at 3:30, in the Speaker's Conference Room. Rules at 3:30, 182  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day Speaker's Conference Room." April 20, 1995

"Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 2334."

"House Bill 2334, a Bill for an Act concerning housing. Third reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Biggert."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is...this Bill is a joint proposal between the Department of Revenue and the Illinois Housing Development Authority to amend...to amend the Affordable Housing Act to make changes conducive to maximizing federal money under this program for Illinois and to create the Home Investment Trust Fund Act. An Act intended to govern the flow-through of federal money under an existing program to build affordable housing for low and middle income citizens. Under the Home Investment Trust Fund Act, the Governor has given the authority to designate the Illinois Housing Development Authority as the state authority with jurisdiction over the state, part of the home program and directs the money designated for the home program and deposit in the federal home investment trust fund and the treasury shall be appropriated to the Department of Revenue for disbursement to the Development Authority. And the Department of Revenue and the Housing Development Authority shall establish procedures to govern the transfer of money to this program and I would be happy to answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Schakowsky."

"Mr. Speaker, is this Bill on Short Debate? If so, I would like to be joined by sufficient number of my colleagues to take it off of Short Debate."

"It will be so removed." 183  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will." April 20, 1995

"Representative, are these new moneys that are now for affordable housing in Illinois?"

"Representative Biggert."

"No."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"So, would you explain to me then, in what way this will increase affordable housing?"

"Representative Biggert."

"I don't think that it's going to increase affordable housing. The purpose of it is to codify what is the current practice right now in dealing with these moneys and to insure that we maximize the federal money that is...that comes to the state because of the procedures that will be put in place. The home investment trust fund was established by the General Assembly under Representative Capparelli's Bill in 1992, and it was not put into the statute although the moneys are within the State Treasury. This is to establish the Act to be put into the statutes."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"So, if the provisions of the Bill are currently being practiced by the Department of Revenue and the Illinois Housing Development Authority. What is the purpose then of this legislation? We're simply codify...why do we need it?"

"Representative Biggert."

"This was at the request of both the Department of Revenue and the Housing Development Authority to clarify the relationship between the two agencies and to designate that the Department of Revenue was the funding agent and the Housing Development Authority was responsible for the 184  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 operation. So, in dealing with the contractors and the builders that by having the statutory language, it reduces the...the potential suits that might be brought and clarifies the role of each of them."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Who determines what projects will be funded and where they will be funded?"

"Representative Biggert."

"The...as I said before, the Department of Revenue is responsible for administering the funds. But the Affordable Housing Authority is responsible for making that determination and within the statute that we have, the Affordable Housing Statute and the state money. The authority has an advisory commission which is made up, particularly of inner-city persons to help with making the determination of the disposal the funds."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"My analysis is saying that this is a two part Bill, one creating the Home Investment Trust Fund Act and the second part clarifying by statute the disbursement and holding of funds. But are we only talking about the disbursement of funds between these two agencies or are we talking about to the projects themselves for affordable housing?"

"Representative Biggert."

"There are two changes, one is the creation of the Home Investment Trust Fund Act, although we have already in 1992, created the Home Investment Trust Fund. We also amending the Illinois Affordable Housing Act. We're not changing how the funds are given, what the criteria is for the funds for the Affordable Housing. It's only how the inter-action between the two...two departments. There is 185  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 one other...one other thing that is also in there is that under this Bill the...we have appropriated money to the Illinois Affordable Housing Trust Fund to cover administrative funds. And there is language in there that would allow them to seek reimbursement for administrative costs of the program out of this fund."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"And are you aware of what that appropriation will be for, I assume this...is this a new appropriation now for FY '96?"

"Representative Biggert."

"Annually, the Legislature has appropriated $500,000 for this fund. The other money comes from the 50% of the real estate transfer tax which we...which anybody pays to the State of Illinois for...selling their real estate goes into this fund."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"But, it is my understanding that the appropriation is going to increase quite substantially, at least the request now for $700,000 for FY '96?"

"Representative Biggert."

"I think under this Bill that if there is cost above what has been appropriated, they would be able to request for an increase."

"Representative Schakowsky. Bring your remarks to a close, please."

"Do you know how many communities in Illinois are the recipients of these funds for affordable housing?"

"Representative Biggert."

"I'm sorry, could you repeat the question?"

"Representative Biggert... Representative Schakowsky, please repeat the question." 186  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"My question was, how many communities and where are they in Illinois are the recipients of the funds for affordable housing?"

"Representative Biggert."

"More than 50% goes to the City of Chicago and then distributed to other places in other counties in Illinois."

"Representative Blagojevich, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In fact, Representative Gash would like to join me in seeking recognition. The two of us inadvertently...missed voting on the last Bill, House Bill 2330 and I would like to be recorded, 'yes' on Representative Zickus' Bill and I believe Representative Gash would like to also say something on the record."

"The record will SO reflect, Representative. Representative Gash, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"I would also like to say that on the last Bill, I would like to be recorded as having intended to vote 'yes'."

"The record will SO reflect. The Chair recognizes Representative Eugene Moore." Moore, E.: "Yes, Mr. Speaker, I would like to yield my time to Representative Schakowsky."

"I'm sorry, the Chair did not hear that request." Moore, E.: "Mr. Speaker, I would like to yield my time to Representative Schakowsky, please."

"Representative Schakowsky, you voted in favor of this Bill in committee, but I will give you one minute to wind up your questioning. You have already had the Floor for ten minutes, you voted for the Bill in committee and you will get one minute left." 187  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day

"First of all, I had only five minutes of questioning, Representative... Mr. Speaker, I did not have ten minutes and I was given the time from Representative Moore. It seems to me that this piece of legislation deserves at least ten minutes of discussion."

"To the Bill, Representative. To the Bill."

"I would be interested, I would be interested to know what other communities receive funds that affordable housing is not just an issue for the City of Chicago. But I would like to know where else in the State of Illinois affordable housing money under this program is being distributed?"

"The question has been asked and answered but Representative Biggert, you may answer."

"The money is used and by law to build housing targeted for low income houses which is, low income households. Which is defined as households with income of less...with less than 80% of the median income of their area of residents adjusted for families size. So, I don't have the information other than the fact that more than 50% has been directed to the City of Chicago. But any...any place in the state which would have...would qualify under that definition, this housing could be built and it is money that is collected statewide from real estate transfers. So, it could be any place in the State of Illinois."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Thank you...is all this money...what is communities is the source of this money that is in the fund? Is any of it Federal money or is it all of it collected through these transfers?"

"Representative Biggert."

"The home investment trust fund money is Federal money 188  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 and then money in the Illinois Affordable Housing Act is money that comes from the state."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"What is the break down between the Federal contribution and the state contribution to this fund?"

"Representative Biggert."

"They are two different funds."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"No, I understand they are two different funds, but aren't we saying the money is for the same purpose or am I mistaken once again?"

"Excuse me one second. Mr. Clerk, announcements."

"Rules Committee is meeting immediately in the Majority Leaders Office. Rules in the Majority Leaders Office."

"Representative Schakowsky have you exhausted yourself yet? Representative Schakowsky have you exhausted yourself yet?"

"No, I haven't. I'm waiting for an answer...I'm actually feeling quite fresh, thank you."

"Proceed."

"My question was the break down between the amount of money that was for this purpose that was between the Federal and the State."

"Representative Biggert."

"I don't know."

"Representative Biggert."

"When the...when the Act was created in 1989 the Illinois Affordable Housing, it was to create a stream of dollars of $14,000,000 annually. I don't know what it is now." 189  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

April 20, 1995 "Representative Schakowsky." "Thank you, are you saying that to create state funding stream the goal was for $14,000,000 in state funds that would go into that and maybe that or more? Okay, no I have asked all my questions and I appreciate your indulgence which are in accordance with House Rule (7-3) section E, which would indicate that a member may yield to another the time allotted for the members debate and I appreciate your indulgence in that."

"Further discussion? Representative Flowers."

"Representative, I would like to yield my time to Representative Turner, please."

"He is not seeking recognition. Representative... There being no further members seeking recognition. Representative Biggert...there are no lights. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Turner," Turner, A.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Lady yield for a question or two? Representative, I..."

"I'm sorry, Representative Turner." Turner, A: "I didn't hear the one answer regarding the percentage of funds. I remember this Bill when it came up a couple of years ago with Representative Capparelli. In fact I think he and I were sponsors on the Bill. I think the question or the issue that concerns some of us here is that we have seen various pieces of legislation, which appeared to be diverting money from the Illinois Affordable Housing Trust Fund to other causes and some of those causes we are not so certain are with the intent of the overall legislation for the creation of that fund. And with that in mind I'm just curious...did I hear you say that there is no money coming from the Trust Fund to the Home Fund or is this a partnership program or what is the percentage again?" 190  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Biggert." April 20, 1995

"We already have both of these funds as was set up at different times. And they are not...what I said was that they are not commingled, but no money is diverted from either fund and is used for the purpose of providing the funds for low income housing."

"Representative Turner." Turner, A: "So, in essence what we are doing today, will not change the intent of the legislation for the Affordable Housing Trust Fund, in no way does it say that those monies have to be spent in a specific area or take from it an individual community?"

"Representative Biggert."

"Absolutely correct."

"Representative Turner." Turner, A: "And you say this will set up some...I think this was two years ago when the Feds set up the Home Investment Trust Fund Act?"

"Representative Biggert."

"What was set up was the Home Investment Trust. What this is doing is to set up the Act to put that into the statute. Right now it is only as a Public Act and has not been put into what we call our books. This is to make sure that this makes sure this goes into the red books as part of the law."

"Representative Turner." Turner, A: "To the Bill, Mr. Speaker. I support...I think I can support the Lady's move in terms of codifying the existing legislation. I think for the record, we would just like the record to continue to reflect that it is the intent of the legislature to try to create more affordable housing in this state and in fact I would hope that we could do more 191  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 to make the Illinois Affordable Housing Trust Fund the solution in terms of trying to address the concerns of affordable housing in this state. In fact, that we can create the action that we are about to take here today in terms of codifying the existing move that was created some two years ago. At that we will move to make more affordable housing here in this state available, we certainly would like to support that legislation. And to that end, I would just like the record to reflect my intent and hopefully the intent of this legislature to try to establish more affordable housing here in the State of Illinois."

"Representative Biggert is called upon to close. There is no one further seeking recognition. Representative Biggert."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This proposal is the joint proposal between the Department of Revenue and the Illinois Housing Development Authority to amend these two Acts and I would ask your favorable consideration."

"The question is 'Shall House Bill 2334 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye' all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 116 'ayes' and 0 'nays' and 0 voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk read House Bill 2351."

"House Bill 2351, a Bill for an Act concerning duration of state leases. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"Representative Andrea Moore." Moore, A.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 192  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 House. House Bill 2351 amends the State Employees Group Insurance Act and allows the Department of Central Management Services to establish the amount that state employees contribute for their benefits under the group insurance program. I'd be happy to answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Are both Amendments on the Bill, Representative?"

"Representative Moore." Moore, A.: "Yes, Representative."

"Representative Lang."

"So then if I understand this correctly, the whole Bill is what was originally in House Amendment 1, that's the whole Bill? Is that correct?"

"Representative Moore." Moore, A.: "That's correct."

"Representative Lang."

"Was there any opposition to this Bill in committee?"

"Representative Moore." Moore, A.: "The Bill was somewhat different in committee and that portion that had some controversy has been deleted."

"Representative Lang."

"So are...is AFSCME okay with this Bill now?"

"Representative Moore." Moore, A.: "It is my understanding that they are."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, have you talked to them directly?"

"Representative Moore." Moore, A.: "They have been talked to, yes."

"Representative Lang." 193  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

"So you're on...on somebody relying knowledge that they've been talked to. them, right?"

"Representative Moore." Moore, A.: "Yes."

"Representative Lang." April 20, 1995 else's personal

You did not talk to Lang: "Well that's good enough for me, because the people standing by you are very honorable. Thank you very much."

"Further discussion? Representative Kotlarz, the Gentleman from Cook. Further discussion? Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

The Mautino: "Representative, just a few questions. In the...the lease provision is no longer inside the legislation?"

"Representative Moore." Moore, A.: "That's correct, Representative."

"Representative Mautino."

"And the provision which would...which was negotiated with AFSCME regarding the payment of their insurance? That portion is agreed and in fact if it is not enacted, will that create a $14.7 million shortfall in the insurance fund?"

"Representative Moore." Moore, A.: "That's...that's...those here, yes. Thank you." Speaker Wennlund: are the figures that I have "Representative Mautino."

"Okay. So the now...this eliminates that cap but is your intent and also the intent of CMS that any changes in the amounts, which are paid by employees, would be through collective bargaining only and negotiations only?"

"Representative Moore." 194  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day Moore, A.: "Yes, that's the intention."

"Representative Mautino." April 20, 1995

"Thank you. To the Bill. I rise in support of this legislation. It is necessary to enact the contract which was agreed upon by AFSCME and CMS. And without it we may have to search for an additional 14, almost $15 million, which is not available at this time in the budget or at least the way it appears. So, I rise in support and ask for 'aye' votes."

"Representative Moore is called upon to close. There being no one further seeking recognition. Representative Moore." Moore, A.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My Co-Sponsor couldn't have said it better and I couldn't say it better. I would just ask for a favorable support."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 2351 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 111 voting 'aye', 2 voting 'no', 3 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Biggert in the Chair."

"The Gentleman from Vermilion, for what purpose do you rise? Representative Black."

"Yes, thank you very much. A matter of personal privilege and I'm glad you are in the Chair. The previous Speaker puts the calendar over the lights on our side of this row and I want to call that to your attention. I have had many cogent comments to say on many of these Bills, but he has failed to recognize me, however that is not my purpose for 195  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 rising at this time. Somewhere on the Floor there is a young Page in tears, who is delivering the eighth chocolate sundae to Representative Spangler today and Representative Spangler says if you see her, please send her right over, he is about to go into a ice cream fit. So, his eighth sundae today and he is very anxious. So, if you see the Page with the sundae, send her over."

"Thank you. The Gentleman from Adams, Tenhouse: Representative Tenhouse. For what purpose do you rise?" "Thank you Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentleman of the House. I rise for purposes of announcement. I want to announce the Public Safety Infrastructure Appropriations Committee will convene tomorrow morning...reconvene at 8:00 a.m. in room 118 and we hope to see everyone there bright and early tomorrow morning, 8:00 a.m."

"Thank you. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 2452."

"House Bill 2452. A Bill for an Act that amends the Criminal Code of 1961. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"Representative Poe."

"Madam Speaker and Members of the House. This Amends the Criminal Code of 1961. It provides that an offense of Armed Robbery, includes committing while carrying on a look-a-like firearm. I would ask you for this support. We had a few problems in committee and we worked it out with Representative Hoffman. We had an Amendment passed and this is to make it a little bit tougher on this legislation and I move for approval."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart."

"Thank you Ms. Speaker. I would like to have this Bill 196  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 take off of Short Debate and I am joined by the appropriate number of colleagues."

"Thank you. The Bill will be taken off of Short Debate. Proceed."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, we talked at length about this Bill yesterday and I initially want to find out exactly what...exactly who brought this problem to you and what was the exact nature of that problem?"

"Representative Poe."

"Yes, Representative, this is in response to a case out of New York, where a juvenile was shot by a police officer and as we looked at it, it was a good idea and I don't have all the information about that case, but that some what of the response, and he was carrying a toy gun when this happened."

"Representative Dart,"

"This was a case out of New York?"

"Representative Poe."

"Yes, and I felt this could happen in any area and there are other reasons this would work in other similar cases."

"Representative Dart."

"Well, what was the problem in New York, though that they were not able to prosecute this, that is similar to the problem here?"

"Representative Poe."

"Yeah, I really told you I didn't know the particulars. I don't want to get hung up on that. I think there is...being a former small business owner and running a convenient store, I seen this problem whenever you are held up and the person responds sometimes when they see a gun, 197  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 even though, it might be a look-a-like gun, in ways that the shouldn't and can get hurt."

"Representative Dart."

"Well, Representative, I don't like to get caught up in the facts from New York either. But if we are legislating against a problem that occurred in New York, we don't have any indication that this has been a particular problem in the State of Illinois. That is the only reason that I harped on New York, because we need to know what the statutory construction in New York is and this is...I'm dead serious here too because, there is problems when you change the statutes here especially when we have ones that exist. Is there something in New York that did not cover this?"

"Representative Poe."

"Yes, I...that was a problem and I think another area I would like to touch on talking to my local state's attorney in this area, if a criminal holds up a convenient store and later if the person says they had a toy gun instead of real gun there is a question of the clerk maybe identifying that gun. This would clear this up, so that it wouldn't make any difference, it would still be an armed robbery."

"Representative Dart."

"Does your local state's attorney, is he unable to prosecute those cases now?"

"Representative Poe."

"I think it makes a... covers a loop hole, that it would be a Class X Felony both ways now, whereas before they would get off with a lesser penalty, because there was a clarification problem."

"Representative Dart."

"What was the penalty in the name of the offense that they 198  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 previously were going to be charged with?"

"Representative Poe."

"It would have been aggravated robbery with a Class 1 felony and now it would be a Class X."

"Representative Dart."

"So, I guess this gets at the heart of my problem, Representative. We are setting up a very confusing structure here, because we do in fact a have a statute on the books, which does this right now. You make a good point in that there is a difference in the sentencing structure, the (yours) will be a Class X, this other one will be a Class 1. This will allow defense attorneys on numerous occasions to question the appropriateness of a given charge, because they are going to be sitting there saying they were charged with the aggravated robbery, not this new offense. Why...what we should be doing here, Representative is either raising aggravated robbery up to a Class X, which would be fine or we should put this offense on the books and repeal the aggravated robbery statute. They do the exact same thing. So, now what we are going to have on the books are two statutes that do the same thing, but two different penalties. What is your explanation for that?"

"Representative Poe."

"What is going to be charged, is based upon the facts that the state's attorney has."

"Representative Dart."

"I was a state's attorney and I used to charge a lot of people too, but what I'm telling you though, is that when I as a state's attorney, have the facts in front of me, the same fact pattern will give you both of these offenses. The same one, absolutely identical. So, whatever fact 199  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 pattern he comes up with, he can be charged with either of these. Where it is very confusing. I agree with what you are doing, but we already handled that on the books. We got that done. If we want to raise it up to a Class X, there is a simple way that we all know how to do it, you change the I to an X. These two offenses are...can you explain to me any difference between your new offense and aggravated robbery other than the sense?"

"Representative Poe."

"This has a specific definition for look-a-like firearm. It specifically addresses carrying a look-a-like firearm."

"Representative Dart."

"That's...that's what's in aggravated robbery as well, though. Aggravated Robbery if I'm going to read it to you says, even though that it is later determined that he or she had no fire arm in his or her possession when they commit the robbery. That is exactly what this says too."

"Representative Dart, your time is expired. Representative Turner, did you wish to speak? The Lady from Cook, Representative Davis." Davis, M.: "Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to yield my time to Tom Dart."

"Thank you, Representative. Continue, Dart: Representative Dart." "Thank you. Representative the thrust at what I'm getting at here, is...and you can ask all of your assistants sitting there, that are legal whizzes. I have no problems, as I'm sure nobody else does in this building, with voting for being tough on crime. We do it all the time around here on a regular basis, but let's be darn sure we are not making a bigger mess here. We have...we are setting up two identical offenses on the book. The requirements for the 200  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 crime for being proved up are absolutely identical. If you can show me how they are not identical, I would be very interested in that. They are absolutely identical. As a matter of fact in this one, an element would being having to show what your definition of a look-a-like is. Under the present law you don't have to show that, all you have to show is that he said there is gun and there was none there. You don't even have to talk about a look-a-like."

"Representative Poe."

"We are not changing the rest of the aggravated assault, it is all the same, aggravated robbery."

"Representative Dart."

"I understand that, that is the heart of the problem here, though. Is the reality of it is, we are putting on the books two offenses that are absolutely identical. Two different names and two different sentences. So, what happens when a defense attorney challenges the fact that they charged under your offense, not the aggravated robbery, because of the fact that they committed the identical offense that comes under aggravated robbery, but the states attorney and his own discretion has abused his discretion, because he charged the more serious one. He shouldn't be able to that. This going to open up all sorts of law suits by defense attorneys, who are going to come in there and challenge this saying, 'well hey, I committed aggravated robbery, but I did not commit your offense'."

"Representative Poe."

"On the Bill that we are introducing, you have to with the Amendment, especially. It has to indicate verbally, by his or her actions that the victim, he is presently armed with a firearm and that you are carrying a look-a-like firearm on your person." 201  44th Legislative Day

Dart: STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE "Representative Dart." April 20, 1995 "Representative, I understand that. But unfortunately that is the same offense as aggravated robbery. I will read it to you, 'by use of force or by threatening the imminent use of force while indicating verbally or by his or her actions to the victim that he or she is presently armed with a firearm'. That is what you just said. It is identical, it is identical. This is a Bill, which we will all vote for, because of course we are being tough on crime here, but my point to you is, if we want to keep the books clean and we want to make sure that we aren't causing more problems in the criminal statutes then we are going to want to address this. Let's then repeal the aggravated robbery. There is no difference."

"Representative Poe."

"Okay, armed robbery and aggravated robbery are two separate issues in the statutes."

"Representative Dart."

"Representative, we are going around and around and around, we are getting nowhere. I understand that. That is not the problem here. Apparently, your handlers do not understand that, because the reality is these two offenses require the exact same action, the exact same action. You show me where there is a different action here, you show me where there is an action that would not fit under both of these at the same time."

"Representative Poe."

"Aggravated robbery, you do not have to have a weapon and in our Bill you have to have a weapon to make a armed robbery."

"Representative Dart."

"So, you are making it more difficult then to prove the 202  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 offense. Under aggravated robbery, Representative, you don't even have to have that. All you would be saying, is that you do have it. Representative, the reality of the situation is, if we want this to be clean Bill, what we are doing here would be clean and precise. What we need to do is to sit back and decide whether or not we should get rid of the aggravated robbery. They are identical. We are all for going after these that have fake guns on them. We are all for that, no one is going to speak out against that. But we don't want to set it up so defense attorneys can go in there and argue that they can not be charged with your offense, because they commit the same offense as aggravated robbery which, is a Class below. They should be charged with a Class X offenders. We don't want them to be left off the hook by saying the state's attorney has abused his discretion charging me with something that should be charged at the lesser offense. We should have some commitment from you that when you get this in the Senate, you are going to work it out so that they will give a long thoughtful look at whether or not we should repeal the other statute, because we are going to cause some problems, otherwise Representative."

"Was that a question, Representative Dart? Thank you, the Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative Brunsvold. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang. Is there any further discussion? Seeing none, the question is 'Shall House Bill 2452 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, please take the record. On this question, there are 99 'ayes', 10 'nays' and 6 voting 'present'. This Bill having 203  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day received a April 20, 1995 Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, what is the status of House Bill 159?"

"House Bill 159 is on the Order of Third Reading."

"Please return House Bill 159 to Second Reading. House Bill 330, Mr. Clerk, please read the Bill."

"House Bill 330, a Bill for an Act that Amends the Higher Education Student Assistance Act. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Erwin."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. House Bill 330 is an increase in the maximum award for the state's monetary award program. I was delighted this year that Governor Edgar included in his budget recommendation an additional $100 increase in the maximum award, which currently is at $3800 a year to $3900 a year for a part time student, it would be a $50 increase raising the maximum award from $1900 to $1950. I would be happy to answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates that she will."

"Representative, how much is this going to cost?"

"Representative Erwin."

"Representative Dart, currently this state is spending $11 million dollars on the total monetary award program. The maximum award increase portion of this in this years appropriation would be $4 million dollars. It was in the Governor's budget request."

"Representative Dart."

"So, this is presently in the Governor's budget?" 204  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Erwin."

"I'm sorry. I did not hear the question."

"Representative Dart."

"This is presently in the Governor's budget?"

"Representative Erwin."

"Yes, Representative, the Governor included the 100, this is essentially a $100 a year per pupil increase for a full-time student. The increase...the maximum award increase equals $4 million dollars and that amount was in the Governor's budget request."

"Representative Dart."

"Could the result of this be that they will change it so that the money...the amount can go up, but there will be less students that they will allow these to go to?"

"Representative Erwin."

"Well, Representative the number of students is a little difficult to tell, because the application period is not...you know is not over. And the other thing is that the way the monetary award program works is not only on needs base, but depending on one's tuition level, SO if there was an 80% increase in the number of students going to community colleges, yeah the request would be lower, we could serve more students. So, it really depends on the type of student and the number of students. I'm happy to say that Illinois has a good record in increasing the monetary award program and indeed provides a significant opportunity to a lot of kids and adults going to higher education."

"Representative Dart."

"Representative, maybe you can help me out here. There is a deadline where these have to be done by...did they not run out of money regularly, before the deadline reaches, do 205  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE that not run out of money regularly?"

"Representative Erwin." April 20, 1995

"No, not that I'm aware of."

"Representative Dart."

"No further questions."

"Thank you, the Gentleman from Coles, Representative Weaver."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates that she will."

"Of the public universities in Illinois, how many of them charge $3900 in tuition or more?"

"Representative Erwin."

"Did you say of all the universities, Representative or did you say of...I'm having a little difficulty hearing you. Did you say of all the universities in the State of Illinois?"

"Representative Weaver."

"Public universities."

"Representative Erwin."

"I believe that the University of Illinois is the only public university, who's tuition is that high. But, Representative, I hope you will keep in mind that the public universities of this state are heavily, heavily subsidized by public funds. So, obviously one of the huge differences is that a student that is able to go the University of Illinois immediately walks in the door or Northern Illinois University or Western or any of the other state universities as a subsidized student. And so therefore the tuition remains lower. It is clearly, I know you are aware of that."

"Representative Weaver."

"Madam Speaker, to the Bill. Ladies and Gentleman of the 206  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 House, be very, very careful about this vote. If you have or are affiliated with any public university in your district, this is the ultimate effect of this Bill, is to take money from the public's and give it to the privates. Right now of the Illinois student assistance commission map grants, a majority of the money already goes to private colleges in this state. We have universities that are falling down around our ears. We can't give them enough money. And here we come for a Bill that is going to raise the tuition map grant rate, that only will apply by the sponsors own admission to one public university in this state. That means that the bulk of this $ll million dollars is going to end up going to private universities and you better be prepared to go back home and answer the questions as to why you couldn't put more money into your university, your public university, and all this bucks went into the privates. It is a...I think a wrong headed approach. It is taking public tax dollars and subsidizing private universities and it is going to cause us all major problems, because of the facilities and the access to education. I think a 'no' vote is an absolute must in this case and we need to go back and rework the ISSAC Board, thank you.

"Thank you. The Gentleman from DeKalb, Representative Wirsing."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I guess I don't have any questions, but I did want to speak to the Bill itself."

"To the Bill, Representative."

"Thank you. There certainly has been a lot of discussion in regards to where map dollars go and I think that is appropriate. And I know as Chair of the Higher Education Committee, that we certainly had discussions at 207  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day many private discussions relative to this. have to take a look at the map program is for students and not for universities, and I think that is...that has been a changing situation here in Illinois and I think we need to recognize that. That a student assistance financial assistance, program, once again is for students and not fund a particular universities and I think that...and I'm repeating this, but I think it is important to recognize that. The raising of this map grant to $3900 by only a $100, a part of that is to just address and keep up with the inflation factor that we have on a annual basis and to address that issue. I think that this Bill has value and I certainly would hope your support would be shown for that when it comes time to vote. Thank you." April 20, 1995 But I think we to

"Thank you, Representative. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Schoenberg. Before you begin, Representative, Ladies and Gentleman, if you could keep your conversations to a minimum or take them to the back. It is awfully hard to hear the remarks of the speakers and this is a very important Bill and I urge to give your attention to the Speaker. Representative Schoenberg."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentleman of the House. I would respectfully disagree with Mr. Weaver's line of logic. He seems to suggest that there is a serious ox being gored and that it is his. I think that if what you are looking at in this Bill and the reason why it enjoys the type of support that it does, is because it increases the number of dollars out there, which are available through the map program. And more over intangible terms were only talking about a $100 more potential for full-time students and $50 more for part-time students. This is one where students, if we put our own 208  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day territorial divides aside, this is one where students can ultimately benefit. I would rise in strong support of the Bill and I would urge you all to support it."

"Thank you, Representative. The Representative from DuPage, Representative Roskam."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentleman of the House. I rise in strong support of House Bill 330. You know we have a very rich tapestry of private schools and Universities in Illinois. And things that we can do to empower students like Representative Wirsing mentioned, to give them the choices and the opportunities that they have to attend those schools. I think move us in the right direction. I urge an 'aye' vote."

"Thank you, the Representative from Cook, Representative Davis." Davis, M.: "Thank you, Madam Speaker. For once or maybe more than once, Representative Weaver and I certainly do agree. The pool of money has not increased and therefore we should not pass this legislation, because we will be hurting students who are attending the public universities. I don't think that the Governor's budget gave any more money to these programs and for us to increase the pool of those who will benefit, will only hurt those students who are going to school that we represent really. And for example, if tuition is $25,000, a little map grant is not going to help them that much in those big private schools. So, I agree with Representative Weaver. This should be a 'no' vote."

"Thank you, Representative. The Representative from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Lady yield?"

"She indicates she will." 209  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"Representative Erwin, I'm a little confused. I was wondering if you could explain this to me, I have heard a couple of different rationales. Representative Schoenberg seemed to indicate that this would have no financial impact on students going to public universities, but then he said if it did it would be limited to $100 per student, so, by increasing the monetary award would there be any impact on those who attend public universities?"

"Representative Erwin."

"Thank you, Representative. Indeed the monetary award program and an increase in the monetary award program with have a net positive impact on public universities in this state. The Board of Higher Education and the Governor have wisely called for an $11 million increase in the monetary award program. Three million of that increase, particular for Representative Weaver's benefit and Representative Monique Davis' benefit, $3 million...$4 million rather of that increase is to cover the increases in public university tuition. Three million dollars of the $11,000,000 will go to increase the number of student applicants, so the prior speaker mentioned we are not increasing the pool. That is not the case. This is an $11,000,000 increase in the total monetary award program. There will be a net effect, a net benefit to all of the public universities, but let's remember this is a program that goes to a student. And in many, many instances we are talking about an 18 year old any more, we are talking about a 35 year old that is going back to school to be retrained, that is going to a university that offers a program that makes sense for them economically, that makes sense for them in terms of their jobs. We have a higher education program in a scholarship program that allows the student to 210  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 make that choice. I for one want to see that continue. We are talking about adults making a choice of where their higher education makes sense for them. So, while it is true that the increase in the maximum award may only affect in terms of public universities, the University of Illinois, because the University of Illinois' tuition is so much higher. The total effect here has a great deal of benefit to all public universities in this state. Now, I would like to remind people in this state that since we have gone down this course in our scholarship program, which is one of the best in the country, to allow students to make this choice we have the great benefit of attracting businesses that look to locate. I mean if we look at what Motorola, what Sears, what many of these large corporations are locating, where they have a university and a university program that can help retrain and train their workers. I for one don't what to see places a significant as the University of Chicago, Roosevelt University, which just opened a suburban campus in Schaumburg. You know, not expand these significant economic opportunities in this state. It is critical, I think for the future of manufacturing and for commerce in this state, that as Representative Roskam SO aptly just put that this interesting fabric that we have is available to all students and I for one want to see this student to continue to make that choice. It is sort of a long answer to a sort question."

"Yeah, thank you. Representative Granberg, was that answer to brief for you or?"

"Thank you, Madam. Maybe I should go to 'yes' or 'no' questions. So, now would this limit the number of applicants that could qualify under this program?" 211  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 44th Legislative Day

"Representative Erwin."

"No, it not only does not limit the number of applicants, there is $3,000,000 in this year's monetary award program, so that we can apply...we can have it apply to many, many more students."

"Representative Granberg."

"But, it would certainly increase the amount to private schools and people who are paying higher tuitions. So you are saying it is a win...win for public and private, but you don't think it would reduce the number that could seek higher financial aid for public universities?"

"Representative Erwin."

"Absolutely not. Would go back to the original promise, Representative. You and I don't know who's going to apply and we don't know where..."

"Representative Erwin, continue."

"Eighty percent of the applicants go to community colleges. Yeah, I suppose the pool could be larger. That is a decision that you or I, don't make and so, you know, we don't know whether if 80% of them apply are going to the University of Illinois. Yes, more of them would have an opportunity at the maximum. It's based on need and the cost of tuition."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. Is there any further discussion? Seeing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 330 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, please take the record. On this question there are 79 voting 'aye', 31 voting 'no', 6 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional 212  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day Majority, is hereby declared passed. announcements." April 20, 1995

Committee Report Clerk McLennand: "Committee Report from Representative Churchill, Chairman from the Committee on Rules to which the following Bills and Amendments were referred, action taken on April 20, 1995, reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'Do approve' for consideration Floor Amendment #3, to House Bill 1197; Floor Amendment #343, to House Bill 1260; Floor Amendment %32, to House Bill 1894. Floor Amendment %37, to House Bill 1967; Floor Amendments #9 and 10, to House Bill 2076; Floor Amendment #313, to House Bill 2125; Floor Amendment #2323, to House Bill 2223; Floor Amendment %2313, to House Bill 2308; and Floor Amendment #2 and 3, to House Bill 2463. Committee announcements. Committee announcements, Appropriation and Education Committee are posted for 5:00 p.m., will meet in Room 122-B, not Room 114. Appropriation, Education Committee meeting at 5:00 p.m., will meet in Room 122-B. The Higher Education Committee...the Higher Education Committee will meet 5:00 p.m., in Room C-1. Judiciary Civil Law Committee will meet in C-1 at 6:00 p.m. Registration and Regulations Committee will meet at 5:30, in Room 114 and Health Care and Human Services Committee will meet at 6:00 p.m. in Room 114."

"On House Bill 330, it will be in the record that Representative Art Turner, intended to vote 'aye' on that. Not 'present' as was recorded. Mr. Clerk, what is the status of House Bill 495?"

"House Bill 495, is on the Order of Third Reading."

"Please return House Bill 495, to Second Reading. The Representative from Kendall... Representative Cross, for what purpose do you rise?" 213  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995

"Thank you, Speaker. We had a little trouble hearing the Bills coming out of Rules. Can we get another...those repeated or have a list provided? And just want to comment on the nice tie that Representative Black has on today."

"Thank you, Representative. Mr. Clerk, would you read the announcement again, please into the microphone."

"Rules Committee approved for consideration, Floor Amendment #3, to House Bill 1197; Floor Amendment #4, to House Bill 1260; Floor Amendment #2, to House Bill 1894; Floor Amendment #7, to House Bill 1967; Floor Amendments #9 and 10, to House Bill 2076; Floor Amendment #1, to House Bill 2125; Floor Amendment #2, to House Bill 2223; Floor Amendment #1, to House Bill 2308; and Floor Amendments #2 and 3, to House Bill 2463. In addition committee notice, the Appropriations Education Committee posted for 5:00 p.m., will meet in Room D-1. Appropriations Education Committee will meet in Room D-1."

"Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Mr. Clerk, please read House Bill 603."

"House Bill 603, a Bill for an Act amending the Illinois Vehicle Code. Third Reading of this House Bill."

"The Representative from Vermilion, Representative Black."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 603, is a Bill that many of us have worked on now for about two years. The major portion of this Bill would put us in sink with all of the states in the Midwest who allow what we call, a combination of vehicles. Has nothing to do with semi-trailer trucks. What it does have to do is we're allowing a sportsman, a camper, or a family to haul three vehicles as long they 214  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day April 20, 1995 don't exceed overhaul 60 foot length. What this is for is all states around us are allowing a family with a pick-up truck, for example, a camping trailer and then a boat on a trailer. You can't do that in Illinois. You can do it in every state that surrounds us, Indiana, Missouri, Wisconsin, Iowa, but you can't do it in Illinois. So for two years we have tried to work out language with IDOT and the state police and I'm proud to say that we have done that. Very briefly, it provides that the second vehicle shall be a recreational vehicle that is towed by a fifth wheel assembly and must be equipped with brakes. It provides that the third vehicle must be the lightest of the three vehicles and shall also be equipped with brakes. Various sportsmen and families who camp and fish have tried to get this Bill passed for two years. I would ask your favorable consideration of House Bill 603. Excuse me, one moment. There is another portion of the Bill that was collapsed into it from House Bill 941 and it allows for limited operation permits being valid for a period of one year and I believe the law is currently 90 days, and that is also agreed to by IDOT and the Illinois State Police and as far as I know, it only effects the haulers who transport manufactured home units in the State of Illinois. It simply will cut down on their paperwork, it does not allow any longer, wider, or heavier loads than currently allowed under state law. I'd be glad to answer any questions you have."

"Thank you, Representative. The Gentleman from Effingham, Representative Hartke."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will." 215  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 44th Legislative Day

April 20, 1995 "Representative Black, do you think that this piece of legislation, if enacted, would cause any hazardous driving conditions on the roads in Illinois?"

"Ladies and Gentlemen, could we please keep the conservation down and move to the back, please? Representative Black, to respond."

"First of all, Representative, congratulations on having that office building named for you in Effingham. I was very pleased to support it. But, in answer to your direct question. No, I do not in all honesty believe that allowing a camper and a boat to be hauled behind a pick-up as long as that pick-up is a fifth wheel assembly will create any hazardous driving situation in Illinois at all. I did ask IDOT and I'm going to take them at their word, that's why they finally agreed to this Legislation. They said their counterparts in the states that surround us have not found that to be the case."

"Representative Hartke."

"Yes, did this come out of the proposal by the farm bureau or what is the genesis, I guess?"

"Representative Black."

"Actually, Representative, this came out of some meetings with Representative Brunsvold and other in the Legislative Sportsmen's caucus. And in some of the meetings that we have held around the state those people who are interested in...camping particularly and also would like to haul their boat to our state parks and to our recreational facilities in Illinois. They're not being allowed to do that in Illinois and what finally got their attention or got them upset, was they could do it in every state around us except Illinois. So, we think this answers some of the concerns expressed by many people who are into camping and fishing." 216  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Speaker Biggert: "Representative Hartke." April 20, 1995

"Well, that's why I thought maybe the farm bureau was in support of it because, you know, these farmers that are getting ready to head south for the summer, or winter, you know would...wouldn't be able to leave town with their pickup truck and their camper behind it and their boat. Are you sure the farm bureau is not in support of this?"

"Representative Black."

"I didn't really check with the farm bureau. The last time I called them I know we wanted to name that major north south interstate that goes through Atlanta, the Farmers Memorial Highway. But I didn't get anywhere on that Bill either. But, I can't imagine our agricultural community being too upset with this Bill, since it probably opens the door for some farm wagons later on down the road."

"Representative Hartke."

"Well, I sincerely hope that there's no width restriction on this wide load or anything like that. Seriously, I think that Illinois has been lax maybe in this and I'm going to support this legislation. But, are there special driver's license required for this? Now, I can anticipate and conjure up in my mind some problems with individuals who have not been used to this type of trailer. Parking those vehicles, backing them in and out of our state parks and as they turn make corners and so forth in many of our state parks. You know, the roads aren't as wide as they are out on the road. Is there a special driver's license required for this type of hookup?"

"Representative Black."

"Well, I remember several dents I put in my father's camping trailer when I was trying to maneuver the camping 217  44th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 20, 1995 trailer and boat in the state parks in Wisconsin. So, maybe there should be a special driver's license but no, there is not."

"Representative Hartke."

"Another question. Is there a special license plate that's required for the triple hookup?"

"Representative Black."

"As I recall, one plate has to be the environmental plate. The other plate has to be the Korean War Veterans' plate and then the pick-up truck has to be a 'B' plate but only if the operator had a bronze star. No, I don't think there are any special plates."

"Representative Hartke."

"I was hoping that you were being facetious with that. Do you think this is setting up a precedent now for a triple hookup for semis and so forth in Illinois?"

"Representative Black."

"No, I don't and I share your concern about that. I think that's why the Department of Transportation and the state police made sure that the legislation said, it could not exceed 60 feet so that limits the size of the camping trailer and boat that you're going to be able to pull behind your pick-up. Also, the reason they put in the fifth wheel assembly is that they thought that that would be much safer than to allow a 'reach' hitch on all three. So, they're very concerned about just what you said, not setting a precedent for triple trailers or oversize trailers on Illinois roads."

"Representative Hartke, your time is just about to expire. Would you like to close?"