Illinois House Floor Debate — May 7, 1996

"The House will come to order. May 7, 1996 The Members will, please, be in their chairs. Those not entitled to the floor, please, retire to the gallery. The Chaplain for the day is Reverend Robert Holler, of the First Presbyterian Church of Pekin, Illinois. Reverend Holler is the guest of Representative Mike Smith. Guests in the gallery may wish to rise for the invocation. Holler." Reverend

Eternal Reverend Holler: "Thank you, very much. Let us pray. God, we thank You for this day, for spring. We thank You, too, that this is Tax Freedom Day. But, help us, Lord, to appreciate the fact that we can share with one another and support one another in growth, in moving into the future. For those among us who are ill in body, mind or soul, we offer this special prayer. May there be healing and health. We pray for the Representatives, that they may come today to whatever work for which You have called them. That they may with...without pain, do the work that You have called them to do. That they may be healed and so may we all, that our state be whole. We pray for our We pray, too, President, for the Governor of the State. Lord, for every family, every individual. May education be excellent, work plentiful and love abound everywhere. In Jesus name we pray. Amen."

Smith Speaker Daniels: "Thank you, Reverend Holler, and we'll be led in the Pledge of Allegiance by Representative Mike Smith." et al: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice Speaker for all."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Representative Currie is recognized on the Democratic side of the aisle 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day for any excused absences." May 7, 1996

"Thank you, Speaker, please let the record show that Representatives Burke and Martinez are excused on account of illness."

"The record will so reflect. Representative Cross is recognized on the Republican side of the aisle for any excused absences."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. We're all here on the Republican side. Thank you."

"The record will so reflect. Mr. Clerk, take the record. There are 114 Members answering the roll and a quorum is present. The House will now come to order. Representative Woolard. Representative Woolard, do you have an announcement to make, visitors there? behind you?"

Visitors Woolard: "Thank you. I think everybody in the Body recognizes these two faces to the point that we really don't even consider them visitors. They spent many, many years in our Body. Representative Bruce Richman and the king, Monroe Flynn."

House Speaker Daniels: "The Order of Third Reading, House (Sic-Senate) Bills Third Reading, page two of the Calendar. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk." (sic-Senate) Bill 681.

"Senate Bill 681, a Bill for an Act that Amends the Retail Installment Sales Act. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"Representative Lyons."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. cleanup..." Senate Bill 681 is a follow up, technical

"Excuse me, Representative Lyons. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Ladies and Gentlemen. 2  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 Representative Lyons."

"Senate Bill 681 is a follow up. Technical cleanup to last year's legislation to standardize Illinois Credit Statues with those of the other 50 states under the Federal Fair Credit Reporting Act. Illinois credit agreement terms and conditions, notification are still different from every other state and this Bill simply provides for an efficiency for businesses operating in Illinois that utilize their own credit cards by allowing them to use the same terms and conditions notification forms that they use in every other state. I'd be happy to answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang."

"Well, thank you, Representative. I was listening to every word you said, but because you were reading it and reading so quickly, I really didn't understand anything you just said. So, can you maybe, just not read that and tell us what the Bill does?"

"Is that a question or a statement? The question is...the question is, will you explain the Bill to Representative Lang?"

"Senate Bill 681 is a technical cleanup for legislation that was passed last year to bring Illinois into the compliance with the Federal Fair Credit Reporting Act and it merely cleans up the...so that the notification forms in Illinois are the same as every other state."

"Representative Lang. Ladies and Gentlemen. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a lot of work to do today. We want the people to be able to listen to the debate. Representative Lang."

"Thank you. Notification of what? You're talking about notifi...give us the background of what this is all about, 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 Representative, and what notification requirement you're changing. I don't know what you're talking about."

"Representative Lyons."

"This is the agreements for a retail credit card. It is the notification. Last year we passed legislation that would streamline the process and this is merely a technical cleanup of that. It removes a sentence in Illinois agreement process that is not necessary in every other state. So, we're just trying to streamline the process, so that those companies in Illinois do not have to use a different form in Illinois then they do in every other state."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, what is the sentence we're removing from this notice?"

"Representative Lyons."

"The...it's the...this law provides that the agreement itself is removed from the agreement...from the notification process. Under federal law, they have to be renotified ahead of time. This is just a redundant step that we're eliminating."

"Representative Lang."

"And so, this cleanup would mean that Illinois would then become the last of the 50 states to have a credit card agreement that was exactly the same as all the rest of the states. Is that correct?"

"Representative Lyons."

"That is correct."

"Representative Lang."

"And so, under today's law, in 49 states and the District of Columbia, if you have a credit card, the credit card agreement is standard among all of those states and D.C., 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 but Illinois is the only one that is different?"

"Representative Lyons."

"Yes, according to the Illinois Retail Merchants Association, that's correct."

"Representative Lang."

"And then, this would enable the members of the Illinois Retail Merchants Association, when they print their credit card agreements, to just have them the same in all 50 states. Save them a lot of money, et cetera. Correct?"

"Representative Lyons."

"That is correct. You're clarifying it quite well."

"Representative Lang."

"And then, Illinois would be the last state to...to conform with all those other things, correct?"

"Representative Lyons."

"Correct."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, Representative, I wish you had a Bill that made Illinois the last state to take care of motor voter properly and the last state to deal with education funding properly, as well. Maybe, you'd think about putting an Amendment on this. Thank you."

"Further discussion? The Lady from Cook, Representative Schakowsky."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"I understand that currently, in Illinois...let me get the language in front of me...that the charge account does not become effective in the same way as this Bill, or at the same time as this Bill prescribes. Can you tell me the difference of when a credit card would become effective under your Amendment to the Bill...under your Bill?" 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Representative Lyons." May 7, 1996

"I'm sorry, I'm not understanding your question."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"My understanding is that under your Bill, the charge account becomes effective when it is either signed by the buyer, used by the buyer, or used by a person authorized by the buyer. If that's the change, what is the current law?"

"Representative Lyons."

"That is the legislation that we passed last year. This year, this Bill is a technical cleanup providing that the notification forms in the State of Illinois will comply with the notification forms with every other state. There's that one sentence in the Illinois agreement terms that's different from every state."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"And that sentence is...?"

"Representative Lyons."

"It specifies that the agreement itself state that the agreement should not become effective. It's just...it's just a sentence that is unnecessary."

"Could you read that sentence?"

"Representative Lyons."

"State law provides that the agreement itself, those words, 'the agreement itself' state that the agreement shall not become effective unless and until the buyer has received the disclosures required. 'Agreement itself' is the two words that is being deleted."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Okay, once again, my analysis says, 'deletes the current requirement that a retail seller or sales finance agency must actually inform the buyer of the buyer's right to obtain a listing of total finance charges'. Is that in 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day the Bill?"

"Representative Lyons." May 7, 1996

"No, those are all federal requirements already."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Okay. Then if...from what I understand, it sounds like this is a Bill that I can support. Thank you."

"Representative Lyons to close."

"Thank you. This is a technical cleanup to streamline the Retail Charge Agreement Process and I ask for your support. Thank you."

"Representative Lyons moves for the passage of Senate Bill 681. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; oppose by voting 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 112 'ayes'; 0 voting 'no'; 0 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1327, read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1327, a Bill for an Act that Amends the Emergency Medical Services Systems Act. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"Return this Bill to the Order of Second Reading. On the Order of Second Reading, are there any Amendments filed to this Bill? Hold this Bill on the Order of Second Reading. On the Order of Third Reading, on page three of the Calendar appears House... Senate Bill 1381, read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1381, a Bill for an Act that Amends the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois. Third Reading of this Bill."

"Representative Churchill." 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Several months ago, Governor Edgar issued Executive Order to merge some of the departments in the financial institution's area. This Bill is the Implementation Bill for that Executive Order. What it does, is to create the office of banks and real estate, which merges the commissioner of banks and trust companies or the commissioner of savings and residential finance. When this merger is completed, this department will oversee banks, savings banks, savings and loans, trust companies, mortgage bankers, license mortgage brokers, license realtors, and license real estate appraisers. This is a non-GRF department as it collects fees from those that it regulates and expands those fees in a way that does not impact GRF. I would be happy to answer any questions."

"The Gentleman from Madison, Representative Hoffman."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Yes, Representative, this only has to do with financial institutions, is that correct?"

"Representative Churchill."

"You'll recall that last year we took realtors and real estate appraisers and put it into savings and residential finance. So at this point, we're taking savings and residential finance along with banks and trusts and merging them together."

"Representative Hoffman."

"The...has this Amendment passed the Senate?"

"Representative Churchill."

"The Bill was sent over as a vehicle Bill. This Amendment was put on and voted on in the committee. I 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 believe you were a Member of the committee and saw that when we...when we initially amended it on."

"Representative Hoffman."

"So, the...this Amendment has not gone through the Senate. The other consolidation with regard to the Human Services. This does not affect the Human Services issue. Is that correct?"

"Representative Churchill."

"That is correct."

"Representative Hoffman."

"The individuals or the groups that will be affected by this, the banks, the community bankers, the...the indi...all the individual organizations, what's their position with regards to this consolidation?"

"Representative Churchill."

"They are either in favor of this merger or neutral. There is no organization that is impacted that is negative."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Now, this is really only a portion of that Executive Order, is that correct?"

"Representative Churchill."

"I believe this implements the Executive Order. There...I doubt that there's any language that is different, but this is the legislation implementation of that Executive Order."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Well, it's my understanding that the Executive Order contained more than just the financial institutions consolidation. It's my understanding that the Executive Order also contained Human Service consolidation. Maybe, I'm in error on that. So, my point is, this is only a 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 portion of the Executive Order with regard to the consolidation of the agencies that the Governor wished to consolidate."

"Representative Churchill."

"There were two Executive Orders that have been issued. There was an Executive Order on Human Services. That is not this Executive Order. That is not this legislation. The Executive Order that was issued in regards to financial institutions dealt solely with that. It was Executive Order #1, which was issued in March of 1996."

"Representative Hoffman."

"It's my understanding that this does more than just consolidate. What are the substantive changes in the law other than just the general consolidation of services?"

"Ladies and Gentlemen. Representative Churchill."

"I don't believe that this materially changes any of the things that you would have found normally under the banks, banks and trust or savings and residential finance. Because of the fact that two departments were being merged, there were some differences, and I believe those have been changed. I'm not sure that...I don't think...I guess I'm saying is that I don't think it adds anything substantive to what you would have seen if you would have examined those previous statutes. If there's something you know of, I'd be happy to try to answer questions in that area."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Well, I'm not sure that I know or I don't know. I'm more or less...I know it's a very large Amendment. It's my understanding that this would...and I don't know if this is just a function of consolidation or if this is actually a 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 substantive change. It would delete language providing that no regulated state bank or branches and employees therefore may make any loan or give any gift to the bank examiner. I don't know if that's just a function of consolidation or is that...is that removing some ethical safeguards that we may not wish to remove?"

"Representative Churchill."

"It's my understanding that there were two sets of standards. They tried to meld those two sets of standards together. The comm...there are things that relate solely to the commissioner such as, the commissioner cannot be an officer, director, employer agent of any entity regulated by this department. It cannot own any equity interest, cannot obtain a loan, cannot except a gratuity. There are also other standards that will be set up for employees relating to those same areas. When you had...people who are solely employees of banks and trusts, they could go out and get a home mortgage from a savings and loan. Now that you're combining the two together, you'd basically be telling them they couldn't get a home mortgage if you said they couldn't do anything. So, you've got to give some..."

"Representative Churchill."

"You have to give some flexibility in there for them to be able to go out and get a loan or whatever they have to do with a financial institution."

"Representative Schakowsky...Representative Schoenberg, excuse me."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'll disregard that faux pas. I know that nothing personal was meant by it. I have a brief question for the Sponsor, will he yield?"

"Indicates he'll yield."

"Mr. Churchill, in light of this consolidation 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 affecting the financial industry and the regulation of these institutions in Illinois, I wanted to ask you, in light of the most recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions which would permit banks to sell other investment instruments other than insurance, is there anything in here or what is your intention for determining which agency will have oversight for insurance products which are sold on bank auspices?"

"Representative Churchill."

"There's nothing in this particular Bill that deals with that issue of banks selling insurance. There's nothing that seeks to have this new commission regulate that. It's not...it's just not a part of this merger."

"Representative Schoenberg."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So...so that if banks...if banks in Illinois were to begin selling insurance, would the regulation of that fall within the purview of this newly consolidated office or within the Department of Insurance?"

"Representative Churchill."

"There's nothing in here that would give you an answer to that particular question. I imagine if we were to consider that as a separate Bill here, we would grant that authority to some department and maybe this department and maybe the department of insurance, but that's for us as Legislators to make that decision. This merger does not answer that particular question or delve into that particular arena in terms of other products that may be sold."

"Representative Schoenberg."

"But, doesn't it...does it not deal with over-sight of financial institutions? 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Representative Churchill."

"Yes, that's correct."

"Representative Schoen..."

"Mr. Churchill, I don't wish to belabor the point. I'm just trying to have a clear understanding. This is obviously going to be, in light of the Supreme Court's most recent decision, this is obviously going to be a major...a major shift in both the banking and the insurance industries and in light of the reorganization, I'm trying to get a better understanding of who exactly will be overseeing this once is does in effect come to Illinois."

"Representative Churchill."

"It's a...My reading of that recent case that it applies to national banks. This is a body that regulates state banks. State banks don't have that same authority, in fact, you know that, that's an issue that we've...we've been...we've had down here for several years as to whether or not state banks could have that authority. At this point, I'm being advised that there would not be any regulatory scheme to look at insurance. We have not passed the law allowing state banks to sell insurance. The State Commission doesn't regulate national banks, so there's pretty much a clear dividing line that the national banks, if they sell insurance, would be regulated at the national level. State banks don't have the power to sell insurance and therefore, it's not a part of this Bill."

"Representative Schoenberg."

"Just a...Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to bring my remarks to a close. It's my hope, Mr. Churchill, that...my understanding is that state banks were waiting to see what the U.S. Supreme Court was going to do on this issue before this issue reemerged before us and it's my sincere hope 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 that we have the presence of mind to have subsequent legislation which clearly defines which state regulatory agencies will be overseeing which functions in the event that such a place...such a development does take place in relation to state banks. Thank you."

"Representative Churchill to close."

"I would just ask for your support of this Bill."

"Representative Churchill moves for the passage of Senate Bill 1381. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye'; opposed by voting 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 111 'ayes'; 0 voting 'no'; 1 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1385, read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1385, a Bill for an Act in relation to the finances of the Capital Development Board. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"Representative Churchill. Representative Tenhouse."

"Thank you...thank you, Mr. Speaker, I guess I've been promoted. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Senate Bill 1385 is a simple Bill. It just simply extends the sunset date of the CDB. The Capital Development Board Revolving Fund from June 30, 1996, to June 30, 2000. And by the same token, it amends the Capital Development Board Act, extends the Board's authority to charge contract administration fees until from June 30, 1996, to June 30, 2000. It's a relatively simple Bill. It passed unanimously in the Senate, then in the House. It had no opposition. It's supported by Illinois Construction 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day Industry Council, American Institute of Architects, Illinois Society Professional Engineers and Illinois Mechanical and Specialty Contractors."

"Any discussion? Representative Hannig."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Yes, Representative Tenhouse, isn't this fee just some, in effect, taxing ourself? Aren't we taking 1.5% of contracts that we would otherwise spend on construction and putting them into some fee to fund various projects or...why do we need to extend this? Could you answer that?"

"Representative Tenhouse."

"Yes, thank you, Representative Hannig. The 1.5% is really charges of service fee and really I think you can justifiably say that it is part of the cost that the Capital Development Board incurs. Reasonably, we're talking about really offsetting the cost of their doing the contract administration."

"Representative Hannig."

"Yes, well, Representative Tenhouse, you and I know I think, that we all like to take a real hard look at the General Revenue Fund and how that money's being spent. But unfortunately, for whatever reason, we find that these dedicated funds seem to get a lot less scrutiny from our Appropriations Staff and the Members themselves. So, it seems to me that all we're really doing here is taking a general revenue function. The function of the Capital Development Board, which probably ought to be funded out of GRF, and now saying we're going to fund it out of some dedicated fund. Out of 1.5% off the top, which then will used to fund the agency and in effect, I think, allow the 15  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 Capital Development Board to perhaps, escape some of the extreme scrutiny they might otherwise get when they go through the process. So, it would just seem to me, Representative, that we would probably be better off if we simply allow this Bill to sunset. If we then went about the business of funding the Capital Development Board through General Revenue Fund. It is a state agency that we have and we run and consequently, I can't see why we want to set up a special, off the top, little slush fund for the Capital Development Board So that they can run their agency. So, I would just say, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, that...well, I know that the Sponsor is sincere and certainly is a leading advocate of trying to find the best 'bang for the buck' on spending our money, that in this case that we would going in the wrong direction were we to approve this Bill. That good government would dictate that we try to keep the money in the General Revenue Fund. That we give it the maximum scrutiny by the appropriation process and that consequently, when the Capital Development Board has needs and request funds for us, that they come to us and that they ask for that help rather than saying, 'we've got the slush fund here on the side and we just want to spend the money from it.' So, I would add...urge Members of the House to oppose this proposal and vote 'no'."

"Representative Tenhouse to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In response to Representative Hannig's remarks, I think we have to understand first of all, we do appropriate the dollars that are spent as far as the Capital Development Board is concerned. We have to also understand, that there's an agreement with the industry, that they're willing to take this 1.5% and those 16  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 dollars are really used off set the costs that would normally have to come out of General Revenue Fund. So in effect, if you reject this Bill, what in essence is going to happen is, we're going to have to come back to GRF for additional dollars and in effect, the contractors are going to be receiving 1.5% more. I think you have to understand that as we look at this process. I'd certainly ask for the Members to support this Bill and ask for an 'aye' vote."

"Representative Tenhouse has moved for the passage of Senate Bill 1385. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; oppose by voting 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Somebody vote Representative Schoenberg, please. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk, will take the record. On this question there 85 'ayes'; 23 voting 'no'; 0 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1407, read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1407, a Bill for an Act that amends the Fire Protection District Act. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"Representative Goslin."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1407 affects the appointment of Rural Fire Protection District Trustees in Cook County. It amends the Fire District Act, provides for the appointment of trustees for that district contained within a county of more than 3 million, but not within a single township or municipality. It provides that in counties with a population in excess of 3 million, that two trustees for the district shall be appointed by the Board of Trustees of the township that has the greatest population within the 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 district. That Board of Trustees shall also appoint the remaining trustee if no other township comprises at least 10% of the population of the district. If two or more other townships each comprise at least 10% of the population of the district, then the Boards of Trustees of those townships shall jointly appoint the remaining trustee. It states that in counties with the population of less than 3 million, that the trustees for the district shall be appointed by the presiding officer of the County Board with the advice and consent of the County Board. I would answer any questions."

"Representative Ryder in the Chair. The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Madison, Representative Hoffman."

"Yes, will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Sponsor indicates he'll yield to your questions."

"Yes, Representative, I know this is your first Bill and you don't have a whole bunch of institutional knowledge when it comes to this chamber. However, I think that...I just want to be sure that you know what you're doing here. Essentially, what you're doing is, you're removing the ability of the Cook County Board President in order to allow others to appoint these Fire Protection Districts. Is that correct?"

"Representative Goslin."

"Yes, it is."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Is there any particular reason why you want to do that?"

"Representative Goslin."

"It allows for locally elected officials who are most 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 familiar with their community to appoint trustees to the rural district, who are involved in and familiar with the needs of their district."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Does this affect the area that you represent in anyway?"

"Representative Goslin."

"Yes, it does. It would promote the local control."

"Representative Hoffman."

"I missed the answer. I'd like to know specifically what problems you have had with a Fire Protection Board trustee. What problems you personally have encountered with a Fire Protection Board trustee that would cause you to want to usurp the power of the Cook County Board President?"

"Representative Goslin."

"We found that the district, the trustees were not at all responsive to local citizens and to local need. And that local control of appointment by local trustees, local officials who are most familiar with the community would be much more advantageous to the district."

"Representative Hoffman."

"So, individuals then from your area would get to appoint these trustees. Correct?"

"Representative Goslin."

"It would be local control of any district.."

"Representative Hoffman."

"You're familiar with, I know you're new, but Representative Todd Stroger, you're familiar with him, correct?"

"Representative Goslin."

"Yes, I am." 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Representative Hoffman." May 7, 1996

"And you're familiar with his father's profession, I would assume."

"Representative Goslin."

"No."

"Representative Goslin, were you complete? Did you complete your answer, Sir?"

"Yes."

"Representative Hoffman."

"You weren't aware that Representative Stroger's father was the President of the Cook County Board?"

"Representative Goslin."

"Yes, I am."

"Representative Hoffman."

"What do you have against Representative Stroger's father that would make you want to change and take away his authority?"

"Representative Goslin."

"It's not a personality issue, Representative. It's a local control issue."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Now, your district that you come from, your representative district, is it a majority Republican District or a majority Democrat district, U of I numbers, do you know?"

"Representative Goslin."

"It depends what year it is, Representative."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Well, it's my understanding what essentially, might as well get to the chase here, I know this is your first Bill. But to be very honest,...you should be very proud, because you can go back after this first Bill and say that you were 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 one of a growing number of Representatives, wanted to ensure that the Republicans, while you have power, take control of all the State Government. You started with the U of I trustees. You started with other branches of government. You tried to end their term, the U of I trustees. Now, you come here and you want to...usurp the power of Todd Stroger's father, who I think is an honorable, an effective, and an honest man, and take away his ability to make these appointments. It's really just a Republican power grab. I think everybody on this side should understand that, and should be voting 'no'."

"Any further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Lady from DuPage, Representative Pankau."

"Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"The Sponsor indicates he'll yield for your question."

"Representative Goslin, I actually did have a letter from someone who is opposed to this Bill. The Hanover Park Fire Protection District wrote to us and said that they were opposed to it. When I asked specifically why, they said it had a lot to do with the fact of the geography of their particular village. They're divided between two counties, Cook and DuPage. About half the population is in Cook, and about half the population is in DuPage. This would leave, also, between the two counties, part of the municipality is in Cook County, for instance, part of the municipality is in Hanover township, part of the municipality is in Schaumburg Township. In DuPage, part of it is in Wayne Township, part is in Bloomingdale Township. So, there's two counties, four townships, within those two counties. And their basic question was based on your Bill. They felt that they would be losing some of the appointment power of 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 the Cook County area to basically the DuPage area. Is that true or not?"

"Representative Goslin."

"I spoke with those representatives as well, and had a long conversation with them. My understanding of that particular district is that DuPage would get two trustees, Cook County would get one trustee, and because Schaumburg Township has more geographic area, they would get the appointment, rather than Hanover Township. I think that was their concern. My answer to them was, that it was still a matter of local control that the appointment would be made locally, next door, as opposed to downtown."

"Representative Pankau."

"I think their concern was that the population is basically split 50/50. Why would Dupage get two and Cook only get one. And that appointment power would then...the appointment power would still rest with the Chairman of the Board of DuPage County. That hasn't been changed by your Bill. It would only be the appointment power by the Chairman of the Cook County Board. Is that correct?"

"Representative Goslin."

"That's correct. My understanding is from them, that a majority of the district lies in DuPage, the majority of the population, from my conversations with them."

"Representative Pankau."

"No, my understanding is, it's basically split 50/50. But, okay, so you're...with all due respect to you then, and even though it's your first Bill, I will be voting 'present' on this Bill."

"Any further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Davis." Davis, M.: "Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Will the Sponsor yield?" 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"The Sponsor indicates he'll yield to your questions." Davis, M.: "Representative, is this a piece of legislation that says to the President of the Cook County Board that he will no longer have the power and authority that other Cook County Boards have, or presidents?"

"Representative Goslin. The Chair apologizes. I didn't mean to cut off your question. Representative Goslin."

"The issue, the issue I've got of is a local control issue. The appointment would be in the hands of locally elected officials."

"Representative Davis." Davis, M.: "Well, Representative, is not John Stroger a locally elected official?"

"Representative Goslin."

"The biggest concern, Representative, is that decisions to be made as close as possible on a local level to the fire districts themselves."

"Representative Davis." Davis, M.: "Well, you know, whenever I see a piece of legislation, and it talks about for those areas where the population is greater than a particular number, you usually mean the Chicago area or the Cook County area. And you're usually talking about people of color. And it appears that this legislation is deemed to take away the power inherent in a position that a person was elected for. Now, we know that you have certainly made a major power grab at the university level. And I'm really concerned when you attempt to take power from the one and only African-American executive officer. The one and only one in the county. The one and only one in Chicago and I think 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 it really is truly unfair to the people who elected him. We're concerned when your role, when your role becomes one of denying African-Americans the same power and authority that is given to people of your color. Now, I think you need to rethink this issue. I think you need to ask yourselves, are you not only being meanspirited, but maybe a little racist? You know, let's call 'a spade a spade' here. This is exactly what you're doing. You're only doing it because John Stroger is an African-American. And you're only doing it because he's the only executive officer of that particular county, and maybe in this state almost. So, why do you want to become more powerful at the expense of those with very little power and authority as it is. It is not going to improve government. It is not going to improve the service to the people. Would you care to respond?"

"Representative Goslin."

"Representative, I supported this proposed legislation 10 years ago when George Dunn was County Board President. The concept remained then as it remains today. It's a matter of local control and local control over local appointments."

"Representative Davis, you're under a minute." Davis, M.: "Thank you, I would just like to say, I am an elected official. Some of us in here won our elections, just as John Stroger won his election. No one appointed him. You know, he got out there, he ran, he presented a program to the public. And this piece of legislation is really going to be one of those that's going to make you ashamed. It's one of those that's Republican meanspirited and I'11 just say it again, it's racist. You've picked on John Stroger. Why? Why do you want to take his authority? I mean, I 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 think you really have a lot of other things that you could pass legislation for, to give yourselves more power. But to take legislation from almost the powerless, to take power from those who finally got to the table, is more than meanspirited, it's ignorant. It's ignorant and it creates problems that you don't want to see."

"Representative Davis, please bring your remarks to a close. Thank you." Davis, M.: "Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I urge you all to vote 'no'."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Knox, Representative Moffitt."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Sponsor indicates that he will yield to your questions."

"Representative, I know one of the concerns that was expressed about this legislation in committee, was by the Associated Firefighters. Have you had the opportunity to meet with them, find out what their concerns were?"

"Representative Goslin."

"Representative, that was the same issue that we discussed earlier with Representative Pankau about Hanover Park."

"Representative Moffitt."

"And you feel there is no way to arrive at an agreement with, to where the Associated Firefighters would feel that it was satisfactory legislation?"

"Representative Goslin."

"My understanding of discussing with them, Representative, was it's a local problem that I think could better be resolved at a local level."

"Representative Moffitt." 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

May 7, 1996 "But you did meet with them and listen to their concerns and attempted to to work something out."

"Representative Goslin."

"I met with them several times."

"Thank you. No further questions."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous question."

"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. Shall the previous question be put? All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it and the previous question shall be put. The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Goslin to close."

"Thank you. I ask you for your favorable vote."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1407 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk. Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Motion...on this question there are 62 voting 'yes'; 48 voting 'no' and 1 voting 'present'. Representative Lang."

"Thank you. We hate to spoil Mr. Goslin's party but we would like to verify this, Sir."

"The Gentleman has requested a verification. Mr. Clerk, please verify those voting in the affirmative."

"Those Representatives voting in the affirmative are: Representatives Ackerman. Balthis. Biggert. Biggins. Black. Brady. Churchill. Ciarlo. Clayton. Cowlishaw. Cross. Deuchler. Doody. Durkin. Goslin. Hassert. Hoeft. Hughes. Johnson, Tim. Johnson, Tom. 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 Jones, John. Klingler. Krause. Kubik. Lachner. Lawfer. Leitch. Lindner. Lyons. McAuliffe. Meyer. Mitchell. Moffitt. Moore, Andrea. Mulligan. Murphy, Maureen. Myers. Noland. O'Connor. Parke. Pedersen. Persico. Poe. Roskam. Rutherford. Ryder. Salvi. Saviano. Skinner. Spangler. Stephens. Tenhouse. Turner, John. Wait. Weaver. Wennlund. Winkel. Winters. Wirsing. Wojcik. Zickus, and Mr. Speaker."

"Representative Stephens, for what purpose do you rise? Representative Stephens requests leave to be verified, Representative Lang. Representative Lang, Representative Stephens requests leave to be verified. Leave is granted. Representative Lang, do you have questions of the affirmative?"

"Thank you. Would Representative Klingler be here?"

"Representative Klingler is in her chair, as always." Lang; "Is Senator Salvi here?"

"Representative Salvi. Representative Salvi. Representative Salvi. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? Representative Salvi. Representative Salvi. The Gentleman is not in the chamber, please remove him. Representative Lang, Representative Meyer requests leave to be verified. Leave is granted, Representative Meyer."

"Representative Ciarlo?"

"Representative Ciarlo is in the rear of the chamber, Sir."

"Representative McAuliffe.

"Representative McAuliffe. Representative McAuliffe. Representative McAuliffe. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? Remove him from the roll. Representative Lang would you represent...would you grant leave to verify 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 Representative Moffitt and Representative Persico? Leave is granted for both of those Gentlemen."

"Representative Maureen Murphy?"

"Representative Maureen Murphy is in her chair, Sir."

"Representative Kubik?"

"Representative Kubik. Do you see him, Sir? He's verified."

"Yes. Representative Parke?"

"Excuse me, I didn't hear you."

"Representative Parke?"

"Representative Parke is in the back of the chamber, Sir."

"Representative Noland?"

"Representative Noland is in his chair."

"Representative Lindner is in the chamber. Any

"Representative Lindner." further questions, Sir?"

"Bear with me, Sir."

"Representative Winkle requests leave to be verified, Representative Lang."

"The chief is given leave."

"Leave is granted. Any further questions?"

"Representative Mitchell?"

"Representative Jerry Mitchell. Representative Mitchell is at the Clerk's well. He is verified. Further questions, Representative Lang?"

"Representative Hughes?"

"Representative Ann Hughes is in the chamber. Any further questions, Sir?"

"There seems to a lot of activity in that one section on your side of the aisle, Sir." 28  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996

"We are a busy group. Any further questions, Sir?"

"No further, Sir."

"No further questions. On this question there are 60 voting 'yes'; 48 voting 'no'; 1 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Continuing on the Order of Senate Bills Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read 1420."

"Senate Bill 1420, a Bill for an Act that amends the Township Code. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"The Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Mulligan."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen. Senate Bill 1420 is very similar to a Bill that we passed out of here unanimously last Session, House Bill 1004. It would amend the Township Code and it would allow Cook County to have an enforcement officer. Basically, it deletes the section in the Township Code that prohibited Cook County from having a township enforcement officer and then it adds sections defining the duties of that officer in serving summonses on violations under the amount of $500 dollars and spells out also, that townships who normally contract for police enforcement with either county, sheriffs or local municipalities could also have those enforcement people serve the summonses. And, the basis behind this was to allow townships, particularly those that are unincorporated, who have no organized garbage pickup, to serve summons and violation on people who do not obey the township violations or ordinances and would allow them to have some kind of control over serving that summons and sending it to the circuit court like they would a ticket, 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 rather than having to file suit in order to allow people to...or allow the township to enforce like a garbage ordinance. The garbage ordinance in our township, which is unincorporated it has 25,000 people, states that they must privately contract for garbage pickup. When the people of the unincorporated area do not do that, they tend to dump their garbage on their neighbor's property or in the forest preserves or along other municipalities and this would allow them to provide for the health and safety of the local population. I would ask for your favorable vote and would take any questions."

"You heard the Lady's Motion. Is there discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Madison, Representative Hoffman."

"Yes, will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative, you indicated that this is similar to a Bill that passed out last Session. What are differences between that Bill and this Bill?"

"Representative Mulligan."

"I think this Bill is a little more specific about the fact that the enforcement officer could not carry a gun. It also specifies what type of summons and what type of violation, which would be a...for a violation that is under $500 dollars and would not carry a jail penalty."

"Representative Hoffman."

"So, you...in this Bill, unlike what passed last year, you're saying that the enforcement officer definitely could not carry a gun. Is that correct?"

"Representative Mulligan."

"That's correct, Representative."

"Representative Hoffman." 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

May 7, 1996 "And, what happened to the Bill last year? Do you recall?"

"Representative Mulligan."

"It was passed out of here with a vote of 116 to the Senate with the assurances that any problems would be cleaned up in the Senate. Unfortunately, that did not happen. They did not amend the Bill and they let if fall."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Who was opposed to it or had concerns with it last year?"

"Representative Mull..."

"Do you recall?"

"I apologize, Representative Hoffman. I didn't mean to cut off your question. Representative Mulligan."

"Representative, I think I had a discussion with Representative Lang in committee over the substantive issue of whether the officer would carry a gun and exactly what the duties would be and he took my word for it that we would amend it and straighten it up."

"Representative Hoffman."

"So, you're knowledge then, Representative Lang's and anybody else's concerns have been taken care of. Now, it's a clean Bill. It's my understanding that the Township Officials of Illinois are in favor of this. I don't see any problem with the Bill. I think it makes a lot of sense. I'd urge an 'aye' vote."

"Any further discussion? Seeing none, the Chair recognizes the Lady to close."

"Thank you, Ladies and Gentlemen. I would certainly hope that you would vote 'aye' and thank you for your indulgence in my Bill."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1420 pass?' 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 126th Legislative Day All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open and this is is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the roll. On this question there are 112 voting 'yes'; 0 voting 'no' and 0 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Continuing on the Order of Senate Bills Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, please, read Senate Bill 1472."

"Senate Bill 1472, a Bill for an Act that Amends the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Zickus."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Senate Bill 1472 amends the Public Aid Code. Makes fugitive felons ineligible for federal food stamps and federal food stamp benefits. Provides that unauthorized use of federal food stamp benefits or electronic benefit card is subject to a penalty. It requires an administrative review board to review the applications of any persons convicted of any federal or state law regarding public assistance or medical assistance. Persons are considered ineligible after a second such conviction."

"Were you concluded, Representative? Representative Zickus, had you concluded?"

"Yes."

"Thank you. You've heard the Lady's Motion and on that, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Schakowsky."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Lady yield?"

"She indicates she will yield for your questions." 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"Representative, have we a problem in Illinois of felony fugitives using food stamps?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Not a big problem but it does close a loophole in the law and it's good policy."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Let me get this clear. I had a hard time getting my mind around this in committee because, isn't not...is it not true that if someone were to go in and apply for food stamps and it turns out that they are a felony fugitive or fugitive felon, one of them, that, that person would be arrested for that status?"

"Had you concluded your question?"

"Yes."

"I could not tell. I apologize. Representative Zickus."

"Yes. Technically, the department couldn't call the police, but if the police contacted them, they could let them know."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Now, wait a minute. I didn't hear the end of that, your voice dropped. The police could let them know or let them go? What did you say?"

"Representative Zickus."

"The department has applied for a waiver to accomplish that..."

"Representative..."

"...to do what you're asking."

"I apologize, Representative Zickus. Representative Schakowsky."

"I'm totally confused, now. If someone applies for food stamps and we find them to be a fugitive felon, would 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 they not be not only ineligible for food stamps but, on their way to jail?"

"Representative Schakowsky, I'm sorry. I just couldn't tell if you're concluded. You are? Representative Zickus."

"The answer would be 'no', because there would be no way of knowing that they were fugitive felons at the time that they applied."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Well...yeah, I don't really get...I thought the purpose of the Bill is to not grant food stamps to someone who's a fugitive felon so, if we don't know they're a fugitive felon, how can we apply this law?"

"Representative Zickus."

"A waiver has been applied for to provide that they not give the benefits to fugitive felons, but they need to do this to close the loophole."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"So, I'm trying to picture now, the scene in the Public Aid office. Somebody runs in looking over their shoulder and it turns out that they're in there to apply for food stamps and we find out when checking about that person that they are a fugitive. Are you saying that the Department of Public Aid is obligated to provide food stamps to that person that, that is the loophole that we're trying to close?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Currently, yes, and this is what we're trying to fix. There is a loophole and we're trying to correct it with this legislation."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Aha. So, we have, in fact, been giving food stamps 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 to fugitive felons. Do we know how many of these are eating at the expense of the taxpayer now?"

"Representative Zickus."

"There is a test match with the Illinois... Illinois State Police found that 148 fugitive felons receive aid from the Department of Public Aid."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Now, you said, 'Are receiving aid from the Department of Public Aid'. Are we just talking about food stamps? Because I was under the impression that, that is the loophole. That we've eliminated fugitives felons from all other benefits and left them only with food stamps and now, we want to eliminate that, or is 'aid' everything?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Technically, we would have to give them the benefits unless we change the law. We need the waiver for us to implement this current statute."

"Representative Schakowsky, you're short on time."

"Benefits include everything? I mean, what if they're in jail? Do we have to give them food stamps or other things like that?"

"Representative Zickus."

"No, we do not have to give the benefits to the people in jail."

"The Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Davis." Davis, M.: "I wanted to give my time to Jan Schakowsky. Jan."

"Representative Schakowsky. Representative Lang was looking for time..."

"Thank you so much..."

"Do you wish to continue?" 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Yes. No, I would wish to continue."

"Thank you. Proceed."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Representative...Representative Davis. I do want to hone in on the point that twice now, you have seemed to indicate that it is not just food stamps. That there are other benefits that somehow, the department has to provide to fugitive felons. So, is it...are we talking about just a loophole for food stamps or are we talking about other benefits?"

"Representative Zickus. Representative Churchill in the Chair."

"Yes, Representative, I'm sorry but, I do have a hard time hearing your whole question. Your voice doesn't carry very loudly but, currently..."

"Representative Schakowsky to repeat the question."

"No, I..."

"Perhaps, Representative Schakowsky could repeat the question. Representative."

"Okay, one more time. Are we trying to fix just the food stamp problem in this Bill, and if so, why aren't we trying to fix the other problems? Or don't they exist? That is, are other benefits also being given to fugitive felons? Or is there just this one benefit that we want to shut down?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Under current law, fugitive felons are not eligible for cash or medical assistance and we're trying to get a waiver in order to implement that. But, it's already in the statutes but we don't have the waiver, yet. And now, we're trying to add food stamps and the electronic benefit cards 36  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 to the statute in addition to that."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"So, do we have a waiver pending that would...and this is the language that we need to change statutorily to go along with our waiver that's pending?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Yes."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Eureka! I think I now understand at least what we're trying to do. I guess the part that still eludes me is, why it would be that the state...if a felon walks into the office and, a fugitive felon seeking food stamps, are you saying that under current law, we are not authorized to call the police and say, 'the person here is a felon that you've been looking for', and that this would now...and that we have to just give them the benefits, the food stamps?"

"Representative Zickus."

"At the time they come in, they're not asked the question, if they're fugitive felons but afterwards, there would be a tape match with the State Police."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Okay, so they've gotten their food stamps, and then a month later we find out, uh oh, we're giving food stamps to a fugitive felon and we say, 'oh, too bad, we have to continue doing that'. We can't call the police? We can't notify the authorities? We're stuck. They keep getting those food stamps until someone else apprehends them. Is that what happens now?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Under the waiver, they would have the...would then be able to call the police and to stop giving the benefits." 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 126th Legislative Day

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Well...It seems ridiculous to me that we need under special law, the ability to not only stop food stamps to felons, but when we find out, the Department of Public Aid, that we're dealing with felons, that we can report them to the authority. So...I mean, I can't...I suppose it wouldn't do any harm. I would hope that we're doing that right now. So, though it sounds silly to me, I suppose if we need some clarification on that, that we might as well do it."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang. No further discussion, Representative Zickus to close."

"I just urge your support to close this loophole in the law."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1472 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 113 'ayes'; 0 'nays'; 0 voting 'present', and this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, please, read Senate Bill 1543."

"Senate Bill 1543, a Bill for an Act that Amends the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Will, Representative Meyer."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1543 as amended in the House, does three things. It addresses concerns raised by the Illinois 38  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 Pharmacy Association and requires that reimbursement forms contain the name of the prescriber instead of the physician, dentist, or podiatrist who prescribed the drugs or an acceptable identification number as established by the department. It also clarifies Legislative intent, that the department recover all the Public Aid...be able to recover all over payments such as those who are due to agency error by amending the Public Aid Code regarding pharmacy reimbursement provisions and the third thing it does, it provides for 24 hour emergency hotline coverage by a general practical nurse or a registered nurse on the Public Aid lines."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognized the Lady from Cook, Representative Flowers. Representative Flowers."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative Meyer, I'm sorry, I wasn't really paying any attention. I was in the back of the chambers. Is this the Bill that would penalize recipients who are overpaid through no fault of their own? Overpaid, and they have to reimburse the department?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Representative, this Bill does not penalize anybody that has been issued a payment in error. What it does is, it allows the department to go back to the recipient that was overpaid and recoup that amount of money that was overpaid. It allows for the department and the recipient to work out a repayment schedule so that it does not become a hardship on a recipient."

"Representative Flowers."

"Representative Myers (sic-Meyer), through no fault of the recipient, the Department of Public Aid for years have over paid this recipient. This recipient, in good faith, 39  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 brought in all the necessary papers and the error of the calculation was made on the department side. Here this recipient has finally gotten he or she, themselves, off of Public Aid. Ten years later, they find out through a letter from DC, from Public Aid, that they must now repay the department through no fault of their own. My question to you, Sir, is, if we can forgive major corporations for defaulting on loans, if we can forgive state funded schools for defaulting on loans or grants, why is it that we can not in our heart of hearts, find forgiveness to forgive these recipients, who was not aware of what was going on?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Representative, first of all, the legislation indicates that they may work out, so it's not one that arbitrarily says in every case you will pay it. It says that the department has the ability to negotiate on it. The repayment period, the repayment amount can be negotiated and the department may just very well agree to forgive a portion of it, if not all of it. It's important to point out, Representative, that the legislation does nothing that the federal government does not already allow for and all this does, is codify the practice of going back to the recipient and asking for the repayment of that money."

"Further discussion? Representative Flowers."

"Representative Myers (sic-Meyer), it is my understanding that there was a conversation between your office and the Heartland Group, that you all were going to try to work out some type of compromising legislation, and instead you just kind of went forward with this. I'm I wrong in my understanding of what was supposed to have occurred?"

"Representative Meyer." 40  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"To the extent May 7, 1996 that there was a conversation and I did talk with the lobbyist that was working on this measure, you are correct. The language that was submitted as a form of the Amendment that they wish to have attached to the Bill, was reviewed by Public Aid. Basically, what they were asking for is available for under the current law and to be available under for...under the law that is being proposed here."

"Representative Flowers."

"So therefore, SO there were no negotiations. In my analysis of the Bill, I see here that you are to recover the overpayments by recoupment from future assistance payment. What if this person is..."

"Representative Flowers, Representative Meyer can not hear you. Would you..."

"Well, you have to use the gavel, Mr. Speaker, and get some order in this House and get me some more time."

"Let's just do that. Representative Flowers joins me in asking that we hold the noise level down SO that she and Representative Meyer, who are only across the aisle from each other, can hear each other. Representative Flowers, we'll give you a little additional time when we're done. Please, proceed."

"Representative Meyer, we're only paying the recipients 40% of the state..."

"You have an additional minute, Representative Flowers."

"We're only paying the recipients only 40% of the needs now, how would this be worked out? Would it be 40%...I mean $5.00 a month or whatever? That's question number one and what if they're no longer on aid or what if you would cause them to go back on aid to repay you?" 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Representative Meyer."

"First of all, Representative, to May 7, 1996 characterize my conversations with the proposed...on the proposed Amendment as nonnegotiating, I don't think is accurate. Again, the proposal that put was forward to me, is already there as a part of the legislation, so I basically agree with what they wanted to do. It's part of the legislation today and it was originally. Also, to specifically answer your question, though, about the dollar amounts, it could be as little as $1.00. It could be up to 10% of the benefit. There's a lot of leeway in there. It could be a short time period, it could be a longer time period. The aim of this legislation is not to put people back on Public Aid. The aim of the legislation to recoup the dollars that have been inappropriately given to the recipient, for whatever reason and again, the federal law is straight forward on it. They, through the federal law, it's required that we do this."

"Representative Flowers, you ran out of your original five minutes, I gave you an additional minute. I'm going to go to Representative Schakowsky, perhaps, she'll yield her time to you. The Chair calls on the Lady from Cook, Representative Schakowsky. Representative Schakowsky, are you yielding your time to Representative Flowers? At this point, we'll go to Representative Schakowsky and then we'll go to Representative Scott after that to yield his time. Representative Schakowsky, you're on for five minutes."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will. Please, proceed."

"You've talked about some kind of negotiation for repayment with the Department of Public Aid. Is that true 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 that there will be an opportunity for the person who was overpaid to try and work something out?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Yes, Representative, that is correct. They're actually mailed a repayment agreement. I have a copy of it here in my hand, which I'd asked the department to supply to me."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"And, what happens if there's some dispute about that? The recipient or former recipient feels that it's too burdensome to have that particular amount. Does not the department have the opportunity to just impose an agreement on this recipient?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Well, the department also mails to the recipient, a sheet called the client rights, which lay out the rights that the client does enjoy. There are different periods of time that there's an appeal process in place. If after the negotiations, the recipients still has a concern with whether they've been treated fairly, they can appeal that. There are mechanisms in place that will allow...will insure that the recipient has been treated fairly and properly represented. They can be represented by a family member, by a friend, by a lawyer, a legal aid group is named on here. They even provide that information as to their right to appeal and make some suggestions as to who might be able to assist them in that appeal."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Representative, we're dealing here with the Public Aid budget and my concern here is that, we are essentially going after peanuts here. Now, I'm not disputing that we should not make mistakes. We don't want to overpay people. But my understanding is that we're talking about 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 approximately $1 million. A significant amount of money but an amount of money that absolutely pales when you look at, for example, the $19 million that's being spent on a new Public Aid Office in the City of Chicago, where there's all kinds of office space that's available. When you look at the amount of money that we're collecting for bad hotel deals. Ten cents on the dollar, but we're going to go after these Public Aid recipients, who through no fault of their own, have been overpaid by inefficient Department of Public Aid. Now, I want to know, Representative, why your Bill doesn't say, we're going to go after every one who was overpaid. For example, what about a company that gets a tax break from the State of Illinois because they're suppose to provide jobs and they don't provide those jobs. Maybe, those people are on welfare because that company that got the tax break is not providing the job. Are we...does your Bill say that we're going to go after those people and we're going to get that money back? Oh no, we're going to go after the woman with two kids, who's getting $377 a month, who may have gotten a little bit extra and now, we're going to make her pay that back. There is really something wrong here. We let the big fish go and we go after the little people. The poor people. Now, if the department makes a mistake, let's have a Bill that says the department better tighten up its procedures. Let's make sure that the department is paying out exactly and only exactly what its supposed to be paying. But then to turn around on the poorest of the poor and go after them to pay it back in this sort of way, a kind of pay or appeal process, that's what it sounds like to me, you know, a take it or appeal kind of process is really petty. This Bill is small. This Bill doesn't help the taxpayers significantly 44  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 but it goes after those people who are victims, victims of the state's mistake. I really think that we should be bigger than this. Let's fix the up the department and let's get off of the backs of these people."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Scott."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I yield my time to Representative Flowers."

"Representative Flowers."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I really have a comment more or less anymore questions for the Gentleman. Basically, Representative Myers (sic-Meyer), I see this as being a trap. Already, the people on Public Aid have been entrapped for about 30 years, trying to get out of this madness that they are in, in regards to welfare and I think it's unfortunate. And to me, the Public Aid workers are trying to make sure that they will always have a job for themselves. Once these people think they finally found a way out of this madness, out of this web, and then you come 10 years later knocking on their door and says, 'Whoops, we overpaid you'. And so therefore, their little minimum wage job that they were working, now, they're going to have to give it up and get back on your Public Aid in order to make ends meet. I think this is most unfortunate and I think we're doing the people of the State of Illinois a disservice as the previous speaker spoke and said, that we are not going after the big fish, we feel very comfortable picking on women and children. I think that's unfortunate. I don't think this Bill is in good faith. I don't think the Department of Public Aid is that hard up for money because they're throwing too much of it away. Thank you." 45  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

May 7, 1996 "Further discussion? The Gentleman from Saline, Representative Phelps."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I actually have a question for Amendment 1, which Representative Ryder was Sponsor. Would that be a problem?"

"Representative Ryder has indicated that he would be happy to respond to your question. Please, proceed." I

"Thank you. Representative Ryder, there was some discussion when you added Amendment 1, in committee about the 24 hour, seven day a week telephone service for emergency services. I think there were several concerned leased about the possibility since the nurse association had some concerns about this Amendment that there would be some discussions possibly to address some their questions. Did that progress or can you give us a status on that?"

"Representative Ryder."

"Thank you, Representative. talked with the representative of the association as late as this morning. They've, taken it back to their board and the language that's contained allows...requires a person of medical training, either an LPN or an RN to be staffing the telephone during the 24 hour a day period. The Registered Nurses are still opposed to the Bill...to that language because they believe that Registered Nurses have more expertise to answer tertiary questions about medical care than do LPN's. And on that of course, they are correct. Unfortunately, in the areas that you represent and I represent, we have a real tough time finding enough RN's to do all that we're asking them to do now, much less to do this kind of work. It's one of those situations, Representative, where we did talk and I don't wish to 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 represent anything other than what is now the truth. I believe the Registered Nurses are opposed to this Amendment. They would like for it to say 'only registered nurses', but the fact of the matter is that financially and I think in a practical sense, I don't wish to hamstring the HMO's by making that requirement. So, I'm suggesting to you, they would continue to be opposed to this Amendment."

"Representative Phelps."

"I appreciate that clarification. I was just wondering, even though I think this Bill is going to move with my support, I feel this is an improvement from what the present system is, requiring the LPN's to be manning the phones. But, do you think it would be possible to at least by rule, have additional training for LPN? Maybe, to upgrade what the responsibilities are going to be here. At least give some satisfaction maybe to the nurses that raised this opposition?"

"Representative Ryder."

"Representative, I would be happy to consider that. I don't know if that's possible. I don't wish to speak on behalf of the Nurses Association, who have already indicated to me their position. So, I don't know if that's possible or not. Unfortunately, we just weren't able to satisfy them and as a result, I'm just trying to be very, very blunt about their position on it. If we do nothing, then any person can staff that telephone with no medical training, whatsoever. So, I think what we're suggesting is an improvement and I'm only sorry that we couldn't go as far as the Nurses Association wished. I would be happy to consider further discussions on that matter as it comes up and I appreciate your support for the Bill."

"Representative Phelps." 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

May 7, 1996 "Thank you, as always. Representative Ryder was eloquent in his consideration. If that could be brought to the rule making process at least for discussion, that would maybe be a benefit. I appreciate realistically also, it is an improvement from downstate having people accessible, which is not really in the best of quality right now. So this is an improvement and that's why, acknowledge, we would be supporting it but I appreciate you at least being receptive to my point. Thank you."

"Further discussion? The Lady from St. Clair, Representative Younge. Representative Younge, you're on."

"Thank you. Would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will. Please, proceed."

"Does this Bill provide that moneys that are made available to recipients for food stamps could be intercepted if there has been an overpayment due to the error of the agency?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Representative, first of all, you are correct. Food stamps are covered under the legislation. However, I think it's important to understand that the same reduction criteria would hold whether it's a paid cash payment or a food stamp payment. Never could that food stamp reduction be by more than 10% and the person has to agree to it."

"Representative Younge."

"In other words, Representative Meyer, does your Bill provide that if there is an overpayment due to an error on the part of the Illinois Department of Public Aid, then the funds with which a family would get their food stamps would be intercepted and taken away from them in order to repay the overpayment? I didn't quite understand your answer."

"Representative Meyer." 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

May 7, 1996 "Representative, cash payments are one category and food stamps are another category. If there's an overpayment in cash payment, then the agreement would be reached on the cash amount that's paid out to the recipient. If the overpayment is in food stamps, then that agreement would be reached on a food stamp recoup."

"Representative Younge."

"Representative, I don't see that in your Bill. In other words, the Bill just states that the overpayment can be taken out of the funds that are made available for food stamps and the distinction that you're making in categories just doesn't exist in the Bill. And, I think that what we'll be confronted with, is people walking around hungry and children hungry because they don't have the money to buy the food stamps. How are food stamps paid for, Representative?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Well, Representative, there are federal guidelines as to how the state can recoup its money and it's covered under the federal guidelines. What you're asking about is not in the Bill because it doesn't pertain to the recoup, the federal guidelines would take precedent in it and that's covered there. Food stamps can only be recouped through food stamp reduction."

"Representative Younge."

"Representative, do you know whether or not the Department of Public Aid has any intention of withdrawing the money for people to buy their food stamps so that they will be hungry, so that children will be unfed as a result of the authorization which you're seeking here today? What is the department's position on that? What do they do now?" 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Representative Meyer."

May 7, 1996 "Right now, they work out a repayment plan. For instance, they send out to the recipient that's had the overpayment, they send out a series of forms. They allow for a hearing, they allow for a written input. They allow for telephone conversations. They allow for an appeal process. Nothing there has changed at all. The federal guidelines are there to protect as to whether cash payments can...how those cash payments can be recouped. The federal government encourages the state to recoup them. There isn't any new program here, it's just what is...has been worked through the department previously, is now being codified."

"Representative Younge."

"Representative, how many of the recipients of Public Aid can't read? What percentage of the families that are involved can't read?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Well, Representative, I certainly can't answer that but I can tell you that built into the procedures of the department is that they send out a sheet that indicates the client's rights. They give names and addresses of location regions for those foundations or assistance programs that are available to the people that would be in receipt of this client rights letter. It very much lays out how they can work within the system to make sure that they're properly represented. As I indicated to one of the previous Representatives who questioned, they can be represented by themselves, they can be represented by a family member, they can be represented by a friend, they can be represented by a lawyer if they so choose to go through one of the foundations and seek their assistance. There are a lot of different ways that, that recipient can 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 be represented. Again, nothing is different than what is already provided for under federal law and what the department's already doing in most cases."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Madison, Representative Stephens."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think much is being made of this Bill, but I'm a little dismayed that at least one of my colleagues from Cook County has suggested that, 'well, this only going to allow the department to retrieve $1 million a year, it's just small change.' You know, to paraphrase Everett Dirksen, $1 million here, $1 million there, pretty soon you're talking big money, Representative, and I think that whether we have inappropriately paid $1,00 or a $1 million or $1 billion, we ought to have that money back. That is a fair and equitable system. I will also tell you that the first portion of this Bill will help in decreasing possible Medicaid fraud. Now, if you stand opposed to this Bill as I review it, that means you're for Medicaid fraud and you're against recouping taxpayers dollars when they have been spent inappropriately or illegally. So I, Mr. Speaker, would move support of this Bill. I hope that everybody on this side of the aisle is wise enough to rise in support, also. Thank you."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. Would Representative Meyer yield for a question?"

"He indicates that he will. Please, proceed."

"Representative Meyer, can you ask your seatmate whether this violates single subject matter? Because, we just had her Bill, and it violated the Child Sexual 51  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 Offender Legislation with the Underground Tank Legislation and eavesdropping. So this contains...it does not violate the single subject matter, does it, Representative?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Well, Representative, my seatmate's very knowledgeable. I would agree with you and she doesn't feel it does, I can tell and really in all sincerity, this all does deal with Public Aid."

"Representative Granberg."

"Well, thank you. And then...I guess Representative Ryder is actually...Representative Ryder is taking questions on the Bill? Would Representative Ryder yield for a question?"

"Representative Ryder, will you yield to a question from Representative Granberg? He indicates that he will. Please, proceed Representative Granberg."

"Representative, maybe I'm not clear but, what is the existing law without this legislation? Would any one be allowed to undertake this task? This would actually put some qualifications into the current law, is that correct?"

"Representative Ryder"

"Representative, you are absolutely correct. Under the current law, when this 800 number goes into effect, it is required to be staffed 24 hours a day and it is or could be one of the first calls made by a member of an HMO to ask questions about health care. Under current law, there is absolutely no requirement. A person walking in off the street, someone with no formal education could be allowed to staff the telephone and give answers about basic health care on behalf of the person making the call. What this would do is require two things; first, that the office, where the telephone call is received, be in the State of 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 Illinois and; secondly, that the person answering the call, be either a Registered Nurse or an LPN. The reason for that, we want them here so that we have an ability to have jurisdiction over those folks that are answering those questions. Without this piece of legislation, anyone, anywhere in the United States or in the Northern Hemisphere, with absolutely no knowledge of medical practices could answer the phone."

"Representative Granberg."

"Well, thank you, Representative Ryder. I wasn't clear on that. But it would seem to me, this would be a vast improvement over existing law; otherwise, as you indicated, anyone can answer these questions. People would call the 800 number, they would rely on that person answering the phone, which, in fact, could be a janitor or anyone who has no experience. whatsoever in this field and that could be very dangerous relying on those statements and those representations. So, Mr. Speaker, to the Bill. I rise in support of the Bill. This is certainly a much needed improvement over existing law. We have to have qualified people answer these questions. We have to have qualified people handling these 800 number calls because, who else is going to tell them? If we hold ourselves out with an 800 number, then we have to have people who are responsible and have some knowledge and integrity to answer the questions of the public. This helps do that. I rise in support of the legislation and I too, think that this is single subject matter, unlike Representative Klingler's Bill, which we warned her about. So, I would ask my friends on this side of the aisle to vote 'yes'."

"Further discussion? The Lady from Cook, Representative Davis." 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day Davis, Μ.: "I am really appalled. May 7, 1996 I am appalled that anybody on this side of the aisle would say vote 'yes' for this legislation. This legislation says that Public Aid recipients do not have the right to due process. Have you ever dealt with Public Aid? Do you know how efficient they are? Once they make the determination that a person was overpaid, they also make the determination of when to recoup the overpayment. Does that mean baby just has a little bit of Similac that week? The week that they determine that food stamps are reduced or the date that they determine that a little bit of rent money will be withheld, what guarantee does the public have that the people making this decision, who have already done something wrong because they've overpaid somebody, so we're leaving the same group of people who work for the Department of Public Aid to make another erroneous decision perhaps, because your Bill says that they could later on decide, 'Oh, we're sorry, we made another...we made another mistake, we really shouldn't have taken that money from you so that you could eat or pay rent or have money to pay your utilities.' Some Bills make common sense. Some Bills make criminals. If you or I were overpaid, we would perhaps, be called in and a plan would be worked out where we would pay back the overpayment. Someone would not be allowed to just arbitrarily snatch the food from our mouths. I do not believe that the people in the State of Illinois are 50 full of hatred for people who find themselves on Public Aid; perhaps temporarily so, at the will and the whim of those who have every opportunity for the biggest and highest technology that this state can provide. The recipient doesn't have a computer to make sure his or her check is right. That welfare worker or Public Aid worker, 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 they have computers at their disposal. They have accountants at their disposal. They have auditors at their disposal and yet, when the mistake is made, the person punished, is the person who doesn't have any money and can't even afford a lawyer but still has no right to due process. What denies them the right to due process? Because they are poor for that particular time? What other group of people in the State of Illinois are we saying, 'You have no right to due process?' If one of these workers, who are not perfect people, who perhaps, don't care on Monday, July 1st, but maybe they will be a little more concerned in September. So, do we feed the baby less Similac? Do we deny them vegetables for the rest of the year? Perhaps, we make sure they don't have shoes to wear. Are you saying, Representative, let them eat cake? The recipient has not made the error. The Department of Public Aid, according to your Bill has made the error. Due process should be provided even for the poor. Even poor people should be allowed due process in the State of Illinois. This is not Russia. If the mistake is made, a plan should be worked out, but not some worker who has already made the error, given the opportunity to say to this person, 'You now will get less food stamps. Your baby will not get any food this month. You will not have your rent paid.' Which prison do you want to build, Representative Meyer? Which district are you preparing a new prison for? Because that's what happens when people don't have any food or a place to stay or a way to feed their children. Vote 'no' on this Bill or please, don't get reelected. Please, don't get reelected if you vote 'yes' for this Bill. The poor deserve to eat, too."

"Further discussion? The Lady from Cook, 55  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 Representative Lyons."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move question." to the previous

"The Lady moves the previous question. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye'; any opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it and the previous question is moved. Representative Meyer to close."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. You've heard here a fair amount of debate. I think we've fully debated it. It received a good...the Bill received a good hearing in committee. It passed out of the Senate with nobody voting against it and nobody voting 'present' for it. I believe that it deals with some good health care improvements through one of the Amendments. It allows for fraud to be reduced through one of the Amendments and it also, codifies a practice that's encouraged by the federal government with the third Amendment. I just ask for an 'aye' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1543 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 87 voting 'aye'; 19 voting 'no', and 6 voting 'present'. And on this question, Senate Bill 1543, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. For what purpose does the Gentleman from Grundy, Representative Spangler arise?"

House. Spangler: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the I rise on a point of personal privilege. I would like to recognize the seventh and eighth grade from the Nettle Creek Grade School and their chaperons, Donna 56  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 Mueller and Kathy Hoag. Can we give them a big welcome?"

"Mr. Clerk, please, read Senate Bill 1673."

"Senate Bill 1673, a Bill for an Act that amends the Metropolitan Water Reclamation District Act. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Will, Representative Wennlund."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Bill merely annexes some additional land in the Rich Township in Cook County Illinois, in the villages of Richton Park and Madison to the Metropolitan Water Reclamation District. There's no opposition to the Bill. I ask for it's passage."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will. Please, proceed."

"Representative, what are currently on these parcels?"

"Representative Dart, could you repeat that? Representative Wennlund could not hear you."

"Sure. Yeah, what is currently on these parcels, right now?"

"Representative Wennlund."

"On most of the parcels, there are houses. On some of the lands in here, it's vacant in lieu of becoming an industrial park, but the Metropolitan Water Reclamation District changed its policy on serving existing areas by contract. And, when the contracts expire, they're not going to renew them. So, unless they're annexed to the Metropolitan Water Reclamation District, they're not going to get sewer and water service."

"Representative Dart."

"These two parcels that we're talking about now, are they 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 both...are they in your district?"

"Representative Wennlund."

"Yes."

"Representative Dart."

"And, do the owners of these parcels, are they in favor of this annexation?"

"Representative Wennlund."

"Yes, they want to continue to flush their toilets."

"Representative Dart."

"Okay, you were saying there's no opposition to this, but what is the position of the Water Reclamation District on this Bill?"

"Representative Wennlund."

"They're in favor of it because from now on the users of sewer and water will start paying some taxes to the Metropolitan Water Reclamation District where they didn't when they were served by contract."

"Representative Dart."

"No further questions."

"Further discussion? Seeing none, Representative Wennlund to close."

"Ask for your favorable support of this Bill."

"Question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1673 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 112 voting 'aye'; 0 voting 'nay' and 0 voting 'present' and on this question, Senate Bill 1673, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Ryder is the Chair.

"Mr. Clerk, what is the status of Senate Bill 58  126th Legislative Day 1769?" STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996

"Senate Bill 1769 is on the Order of Third Reading."

"Mr. Clerk, please, return Senate Bill 1769 to the Order of Second Reading. Continue on the Order of Senate Bills Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, please, read Senate Bill 1853."

"Senate Bill 1853, a Bill for an Act that amends the School Code. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Kane, Representative Hoeft on Senate Bill 1853. Representative."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Senate Bill 1853 is a composite of the work of a large number of groups to try and cleanup the Waiver Bill that we passed last year. The Waiver Bill was so comprehensive that it was obvious that there needed to be some clarifications in certain areas and there was a meeting of various groups to come up with the concerns. This was put into a Bill. It has 10 major areas in it and it is supported virtually straight across the board by the entire education community. It has had no opposition in the House, the committee, the Senate Committee and also in the Senate. I don't want to bore you with going through all 10 areas, but would be interested in any of the concerns you have by individuals."

"Is there any discussion? You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will yield to your question, Sir."

"Representative, there's provisions in here that deal with the State Board approving requests, if the requests are 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 substantially identical. Can you explain that provision for me?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"There are two areas here, Representative Dart, that are very similar. One is that if we, through the process of the waivers, find an area that is agreed upon, we do not have to the following years, have that go to the State Board and pass through the House and the Senate. The State Board will take that and since we've already agreed to that area, will simply approve it and send it back to the district. Conversely, if there's an area such as, for example, last year, corporal punishment. We deliberated on that and said we do not want to have mandated waivers for corporal punishment, and we made a fairly strong statement. So, if a district, as they did this year, asks for a Corporal Punishment Waiver, the State Board, since it has already been denied, would then say, 'No, denied', and send it directly back. This is an effort to cut down on the massive amount of paperwork that we will have to deal with in an annual basis."

"Representative Dart."

"Thank you. But, would this not, lock us into a position? The General Assembly changes every two years or so. Would this not force new Members to comply with previous waivers then, such as P.E.? Say we waive P.E., it comes up again in substantially similar...it goes through that process then, would that not lock in the General Assemblies that come thereafter?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"It definitely has a category set up; such as, if we would say P.E., yes. But, if this group decided that it did not like that then, we could then place a Bill in. If you did 60  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 not like this P.E. waiver, you could then put a Bill in and it would work its way through the process which says, 'No, this is the definition we want for students athletics, this is what we will now maintain.' So, the process of actually producing law, is the thing that would stop this."

"Representative Dart."

"So then, the only remedy for this then, would be through the introduction of a Bill, to put that back in. And that would be contingent upon those Bills getting called, because we have had a problem this year with numeroUS waivers that aren't getting called though, correct?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"That is the process that we have in place, yes."

"Representative Dart."

"Who is it that makes the determination as far as whether or not something is substantially identical or not?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"We leave that to the State Board of Education."

"Representative Dart."

"Do we give them any guidelines whats whatsoever or are they basically given free rein to determine what should go in these categories or not?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"Any area that they have a sense of confusion on, they can then return them and have this year returned them for our consideration. The wording is that they...this is an area where there's substantial agreement in terms of the classification and I use the example of the corporal punishment as the example that everyone can agree upon."

"Representative Dart."

"There's provisions in here also that refer to the State Board returning to districts any application or waivers 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 that do not comply with the provisions of this section? Is that not current law or is there some change being made there?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"The original language said that the State Board could return to a school district, any application that was not completed properly. This is saying that they have the rights to return to the school district, any application that is in one of those areas we said was off base. We would not allow them to go into certification, tenure and those types of issues. So, it is the State Board asking for clarification on their powers."

"Representative Dart, 35 seconds."

"Now, you made reference to the fact that numerous groups were involved with this Bill, in working on it. Is there...and you said there was unanimous agreement, were there any groups that were opposed to these provisions?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"None."

"Representative Dart."

"Does this Bill have any of the provisions that had been in some of the other cleanup Bills that have come through here, dealing with Pulaski Day or other days in regards to that?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"No."

"Any further discussion? Seeing none, recognize Hoeft: the Gentleman from Kane to close." "It's a good Bill. Vote 'yes'."

"The question is, 'Should Senate Bill 1853 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open and this is final action. Have all 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? May 7, 1996 Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 113 voting 'yes'; 0 voting 'no' and 0 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Turning to the Order of Senate Bill's Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 600."

"Senate Bill 600, Bill has been read a second time previously. Committee Amendments #1 and 2 were referred to committee. No Floor Amendments. The Fiscal Note and Correctional Budget and Impact Note have been requested and have been filed."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 1414."

"Senate Bill 1414, the Bill has been read a second time previously. Committee Amendment #1 was adopted. No Floor Amendments. State Mandates Note and a Fiscal Note have been requested on the Bill as amended and have been filed."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1418."

"Senate Bill 1418, a Bill for an Act...the Bill's been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments, no Floor Amendments. Fiscal Notes, State Mandates Notes have been requested and filed."

"Third Reading, Mr. Clerk. Please, read Senate Bill 1513."

"Senate Bill 1513, the Bill's been read a second time previously. Committee Amendment #1 was adopted. Committee Amendment #2 was ruled non-germane. Floor Amendment #3 was referred to Rules. Fiscal Note and State Mandates Note had been requested on the Bill as amended and they have been filed." 63  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1518."

"Senate Bill 1518, Bill's been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments. No Floor Amendments. Correctional Budget and Impact Note and a Fiscal Note have been requested on the Bill and have been filed."

"Third Reading. Continuing on the Order of Senate Bills Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1550."

"Senate Bill 1550, Bill's been read a second time previously. Committee Amendment #1 was ruled non-germane. Floor Amendment #2 was referred to rules. A Fiscal Note and State Mandates Note have been requested on the Bill and have been filed."

"Third Reading. On page four of the Calendar, Mr. Clerk, Senate Bill's Third Reading. Please, read Senate Bill 1719."

"Senate Bill 1719, a Bill for an Act to create the Volunteer Employee Commute Options Emission Reduction Credit Act and repeal the Employee Commute Options Act. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"And on that the Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Hassert."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Senate Bill 1719 amends the Employee Commute Option Act. Requires the state to notify the United States EPA to remove the Mandatory Employee Commute Option Program from the state implementation plan for ozone. There's no known opposition to this. The reason for the chain (sic-change) is that legislation necessary to take advantage of federal repeal of the ECO requirement. I'd be happy to answer any 64  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day questions."

May 7, 1996 "You've heard the Gentleman's Motion and on that, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg. Sir."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir."

"You're welcome."

"Would Representative Hassert yield for a question?"

"Representative Hassert? He indicates he would be happy to yield for your questions on this issue, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you."

"You're welcome."

"Wonderful."

"My pleasure."

"Representative Hassert, would you and the Sponsor, Representative Ciarlo, do you want to hold this Bill or bring it back to Second Reading so we can put on your eavesdropping provision that was declared unconstitutional today? You want to use this for a vehicle for the eavesdropping provision?"

"Representative Hassert."

"No."

"Representative Granberg."

"Does the Sponsor, Representative Ciarlo want to use this for the eavesdropping provision?"

"Representative Hassert."

"I can't speak for Representative Ciarlo."

"Representative Granberg."

"Well, I think you are, Representative. You're handling her Bill."

"Representative Hassert."

"Representative Granberg, my name is also on the Bill, 65  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day so I'm handling the Bill for myself."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Representative Hassert. May 7, 1996 Representative, I think I understand what you're trying to do and I admire your intentions but, could you just clarify for the Members how the reduction credits will be authorized? How, in fact, this procedure will work when they apply for the credits?"

"Representative Hassert."

"Well, this moves it to a voluntary program so they'll be able to develop a program through IDOT. We'll have to adopt the rules which are necessary to implement the voluntary program."

"Representative Granberg."

"Well, I know we've gone away from the mandatory program, Representative Hassert, which I agree is the correct procedure. But how would the credits be authorized if they are...if you participate in the voluntary program?"

"Representative Hassert."

"At this point, we don't have the rules. IDOT will be in charge of developing the program to issue those credits and to okay the voluntary programs to make sure they come with a compliance to meet their credits."

"Representative Granberg."

"So, the Department of Transportation will actually have the authority to implement the program and to make those determinations?"

"Representative Hassert."

"It says in the Bill, that you basically give IDOT the authority to develop the rules."

"Representative Granberg."

"So, IDOT will have the responsibility to implement the 66  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 rules which will determine how the credits will be issued? So, they'll have complete responsibility for the implementation of the entire program, with no approval necessary from the USEPA or any other federal body?"

"Representative Hassert."

"Yes."

"Representative Granberg."

"So, with this voluntary program that is authorized at the federal level, IDOT can do everything necessary in the issuance of rules to make sure the program meets the federal guidelines?"

"Representative Hassert."

"This would be a program that's going to be voluntary at the state level. IDOT will...in section 30 of the Bill, the department is authorized to adopt rules that may be necessary to accomplish the purpose of this Act."

"Representative Granberg."

"Representative, I get confused when we talk about these air emission reduction credits. Now, how does that process work? How does some party buy them? Is this part of the rulemaking procedure that IDOT will use or is that, in fact, in place?"

"Representative Hassert."

"My understanding is last year we adopt the rules through the Illinois EPA that will handle how these credits are applied for and how they're given out and how they meet the anticipation reduce the...to improve the quality of air within the non-attainment zones. So, I would assume that the Illinois Department of Transportation in conjunction with IDOT, will consult over how these programs are ran."

"Representative Granberg."

"But, at this point, we don't know how the program is 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day being operated or, in fact, will be operated with IDOT assuming control, in issuing these proposed rules and regulations?"

"Representative Hassert."

"Not at this time. We're not by no means are we that far along in the process."

"Fifteen seconds, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you and, Representative, I know this is difficult because Representative Ciarlo is unavailable but, I'm just curious...Mr. Speaker, could I have one more minute, please?"

"Yes, Sir, we'll accommodate that request."

"Will we have to do anything further to comply with the federal government, the USEPA for this program? Would this be sufficient on a voluntary basis to comply with the Feds or do we need to have their authority or their approval over any potential plan and/or rule that is to be promulgated by IDOT or the IEPA?"

"Representative Hassert."

"Well, understandedly that the...basically took away the mandatory program and offered that the state could try to allow businesses to continue to achieve air quality control through voluntary programs. So I would assume that this would meet their intentions, yes."

"Representative Granberg."

"I just want to thank Representative Hassert for his time. I appreciate his clarifying some of those issues for me."

"Is there any further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker. I have a parliamentary inquiry..."

"Please, state your inquiry." 68  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

May 7, 1996 "The inquiry is with respect to House Rule 5-1(b) and this rule says that the principal sponsor of a Bill, shall control such Bill. Now, it's Representative Hassert who is presenting Senate Bill 1719 to us, but it's Representative Ciarlo who is the Sponsor of the Bill. Has she written a note to the Clerk or to the Chair or has she in some other way indicated that she wishes Mr. Hassert at this time, to present this Bill on Third Reading?"

"Pursuant to Rule 5-1(b), the Chief Sponsor controls the Bill. Representative Ciarlo has asked and informed Representative Hassert to present the Bill. He has agreed to do so and has presented the Bill without objection. Representative Currie."

"Well, that may very well be accurate, Representative, but how do I know that Representative Ciarlo asked him do it? Did she put it in writing? Did she share a copy of that note with the Clerk of the House or with the Chair? I to to act mean, it seems to me that we have very strong views on sponsorship. The first named Sponsor is in control of that piece of legislation and I don't mean to make trouble for Mr. Hassert and I don't mean to doubt the sincerity of his suggestion that Representative Ciarlo wishes him this way, but it seems to me, we ought to protect the requirement that the Chief Sponsor is the Sponsor. The integrity of that commitment by making sure that either the House grants leave from the requirement or that the first named Sponsor identify someone who should carry forward in his or her absence in some more formal way than a whisper in the ear. So, do we have formal notification from Representative Ciarlo?"

"Representative Currie, you had inquired of the Chair concerning that rule the Chair had ruled, that 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 Representative Hassert was properly conducting business under that rule with the authority of Representative Ciarlo. Do you have a further point of inquiry, Representative Currie?"

"Yeah..."

"Please, state that point."

"I would like to know under what rule the Chair has made that ruling and I would further point out that among other reasons for establishing control of a Bill in the Sponsor's hand is first of all, the potential embarrassment it could be to a Chief Sponsor of a Bill back in her own district, that she was not the person who was able to present her own legislation and certainly the potential damage it could cause that Legislator when it turns out that the Sponsor of this Bill is not in a position, even to vote for her own measure. I would think that..."

"Representative."

"...might be embarrassing in the constituency and..."

"Representative."

"...I would think that we as an institution would want to protect people from that kind of accidental outcome..."

"Representative."

"...and the rule served under which you have determined that we don't need to be sure of Representative Ciarlo's..."

"Representative, you've stated your point. I've so ruled. I've indicated in the ruling, the rule under which that has been made. I've given you the opportunity for follow up. The matter is finished. Mr. Clerk, please, return the Bill to the... Representative, when I ruled the Bill...oh, excuse me, on your inquiry, I indicated Rule 5-1(b). The same one that you cited to me. The Sponsor 70  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 controls the Bill. The Sponsor asked Representative Hassert to handle the Bill. It has been...House Rules...House Rules. Thank you. Any further discussion on Senate Bill 1719? Seeing none, the Gentleman to close."

"I just ask for your favorable vote. Thank you."

"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1719 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 114 voting 'yes'; 0 voting 'no'; and 1 voting 'present'. And this Bill, have received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Continuing on the Order of Senate Bills Third Reading, on page five is Senate Bill 600. Mr. Clerk, please read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 600, a Bill for an Act that amends the Criminal Code. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Knox, Representative Moffitt on Senate Bill 600."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 600 is an initiative of the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault. This Bill was introduced in the Spring of '95 and started working its way through the legislative process. Originally passed the Senate Judiciary Committee by a vote of 10 'yes' and 0 'no'. Passed the Senate 55 to 0. Moved to the House and was approved by the House Judiciary Committee but, became part of a Committee Bill which did not receive final approval and just bogged down in the legislative process. I know of no opposition to this Bill. What it does, is that it 71  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 expands the offense of aggravated criminal sexual abuse by amending the Criminal Code to add as elements of aggravated criminal sexual abuse two additional factors. Those being that in the commission of a crime that the defendant threatened or endangered the life of the victim or any other person, or committed the offense during the course of any other felony. This would bring to a total of six, the list of aggravating circumstances that could be described or used in aggravated criminal sexual abuse. These two factors that I just mentioned, are already elements of aggravated criminal sexual assault. This Bill will simply make aggravated criminal sexual assault and aggravated criminal sexual abuse consistent with each other. They will have the same six aggravating circumstances. Be happy to answer any questions."

"You heard the Gentleman's Motion. Is there any discussion on Senate Bill 600? And on that matter, the Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will yield to your questions, Sir."

"Initially, Representative, I just was going to ask you, I have not looked at the Calendar to see how many other criminal Bills are out there but, given the fact that the court just overturned the Sexual Notification Bill, would this be a Bill that we might be able to put it on? This is a criminal Bill, unlike the LUST Fund Bill where this would be more appropriate. Is this a Bill where we possibly could put the criminal notification on?"

"Representative Moffitt."

"Representative, excellent question. This is a criminal 72  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 Bill, deals with amending the Criminal Code. As I indicated, this is an initiative of the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault. It's a very important Bill to them. It's already was brought up once before and was slowed down in the legislative process. I think it's important that we keep it as a clean Bill, so that it can advance and hopefully pass 'cause I know of no opposition, but it's major a initiative with the coalition and I wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardize its passage."

"Representative Dart."

"Thank you, then. I just had a couple of quick questions on the Bill, then. How many acts have there been in the past year or so, in which the charge could have been aggravated criminal sexual abuse but it was just sexual abuse because it did not have these two aggravating factors?"

"Representative Moffitt."

"Representative, I do not have available to me at the present time, any list of that. I don't know that there's a record. If you do, I'd be happy to review that with you but, but I'm not aware of any of the records that you're referring to there, as far as there being a count that way."

"Representative...Representative Dart."

"No, my question would be about, as far as statistical evidence you'd have. I was just concerned as to the...this is obviously trying to cover a loophole here. I'm just trying to figure out how many cases have been passed through this system. If we have any statistics whatsoever where this law would have been able to remedy that."

"Representative Moffitt."

"Representative, I'm not aware of stats being kept, to 73  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 answer your specific question. You know, it is the position of the coalition that this is needed to bring these two statutes to make them consistent. They feel that it is needed to...to be able to provide the proper legislation needed to prosecute. The actual number, which is your question, I do not have. I don't...I'm not aware that any such records are available. I would be happy to even, contact the coalition but I'm simply not aware of them being available. I'd certainly..."

"Representative Dart."

"...answer it if I knew the...had the..."

"Representative Moffitt, I apologize for interrupting. Representative Dart."

"Would...would Subsection 5, which you're adding, would that also encompass parts of Subsection 1 as well though, but one would be without a weapon?"

"Representative Moffitt."

"Yes."

"Representative Dart."

"Was there a reason why this was left off in first place, though? There's sometimes, there are reasons left as to why these two weren't originally included in the statutes as far as possibly, other charges that might be more serious than this one? Is there any reason behind that?"

"Representative Moffitt."

"Representative, I believe the last legislation if I'm...I believe was 1984, and I'm not aware of any reason why it was left out. You know, there's nothing there that I know of that precluded that it should not be added in. It just seems logical that they be consistent and that we add this as two of the aggravating factors in criminal sexual abuse. I definitely am not aware of any reason why 74  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day they weren't in the first place."

"Representative Dart." May 7, 1996

"I guess, Representative, my concern was, and I don't have the answer to this either. I was just trying to find out if there was a legitimate reason why these were not included in the first place. 'Cause sometimes there's a more serious offense that this action would come under and by us allowing...by putting this forward now, they'd be able to...the State's Attorney would charge both offenses and quite often it would allow the jury off the hook by letting them go for the lesser offense as oppose to the other one. Do you know...are you aware of any yourself?"

"Representative Moffitt."

"No, I'm not, Representative. I think we have the added advantage...advantage on this piece of legislation that we're really in the second year of this legislation being out there for anyone with interest, concern that they could have brought that up to us because it was introduced in '95, went through the legislative process, came back now in '96. Has an exceptional large amount of time that it's been out there for public input for anyone..."

"Representative Moffitt, bring your answer to a close, please."

"I just think that adds to the likelihood that there's not a problem there, Representative, because we've had that added time. So, I appreciate you raising the concerns but, I just don't believe there are any there."

"Any further discussion? Seeing none, the Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Knox to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think this is an excellent Bill. It's a good crime Bill. I hope that we'll have unanimous support for this legislation. It's the second 75  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day year that it's been out here for you to react to. I'd appreciate a 'yes' vote."

"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 600 pass?' All those in favor...all those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 115 voting 'yes'; 0 voting 'no'; and 0 voting 'present' and Senate Bill 600 having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1414."

"Senate Bill 1414, a Bill for an Act that amends the Bingo License and Tax Act. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"And on this, the Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Will, Representative Wennlund."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. What this Bill does, is it increases the amount of bingo that can be conducted by charitable organizations from its current limit, which is $2250, that was established in 1982. It increases it by two games so that the most merchandise or prizes that can be awarded in any single day of bingo could not exceed $3250, which is a $1000 increase or $500 per game for two games. It's believed that in certain counties and this originated in Lake County, Illinois, that the amount has long been the same and it needs to be changed and increased. This will result in an increase in the amount of taxes that are derived from bingo. It should be somewhere around $1 million increase a year and it's just time to increase that amount which has always been the same. Be happy to answer 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day any questions."

May 7, 1996 "You've heard the Gentleman's Motion and on that, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Macoupin, Representative Hannig."

"Yes, will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates that he will yield to your question, Sir."

"Yes. Representative Wennlund, I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of changing the amount of money that we could award but, why don't we do it in a policy fashion and do it for all the...all the counties in the State of Illinois rather than picking and choosing and saying, 'Well, we're going to allow this one here...' Okay, I'm sorry, Representative. So, your Amendment...could I ask, does your Amendment provide that every county then can...?"

"The Gentleman indicates he will yield to your question, Representative Hannig. Representative Wennlund." "Yes, Representative Hannig, it applies statewide. The Bill was amended in committee at the request of mostly Members on your side of the aisle and I amended it at their request and it would apply as amended statewide." Wennlund:

"Representative Hannig."

"Okay. Let me ask one additional clarification, Representative. Is it for all bingo licenses?"

"Representative Wennlund."

"Yes."

"Representative Hannig."

"Because I thought I heard you say in your explanation it was only for charitable organizations but you're saying now, that it's for all...it's for all bingo licensees?"

"Representative Wennlund."

"Yes, I just...it applies to all licensees and any one 77  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 who conducts bingo under the Bingo License and Tax Act."

"Representative Hannig."

"Yes. Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I appreciate the Gentleman taking the time to answer my questions. I think he's got a good idea. It's probably time that we provided this additional ability to allow bingo games throughout all the counties in the State of Illinois and I support the Gentleman's proposal."

"The Chair would like to recognize a former Member who is in our midst. The Chair recognizes former State Representative Tom Homer. Representative Homer. Representative Homer, we usually don't lobby for pay increases until one becomes a judge. The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bugielski."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Sponsor indicates he'll yield to your question."

"Thank you. Representative, does this just pertain to Lake County? To all counties? All right, so it's going to be all counties throughout the entire state?"

"Representative Wennlund."

"Yes, it applies to every county in the state."

"Representative Bugielski."

"Thank you."

"Any further discussion? Seeing none, I ask the Gentleman from Will to close."

"Thank you, Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I ask for your support of the Bill. It's a situation that's been there for 14 years and it's time for a change and it's time to move on. Thank you."

"You've heard the Gentleman. The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1414 pass?' All those in favor vote 78  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 92 voting 'yes'; 21 voting 'no' and 1 voting 'present', and Senate Bill 1414, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Continue on the Order of Senate Bills Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1418."

"Senate Bill 1418, a Bill for an Act that amends the School Code. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"On that the Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Kane, Representative Hoeft."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, fellow Members of the General Assembly, Senate Bill 1418 is divided into two distinct parts and I can go through them briefly to explain. The first deals with the downsizing of the Regional Office of Education, the ROE'S. Two years ago we passed a Bill that downsized them from 56 to 45. The second phase of that was to occur in 1999, when it was to be reduced from 45 to 35. It became quite apparent as they set up the new ESCS and the ROEs and when they started putting in the hub, that if we were going to keep efficiency in this office, we would have to maintain the level at 45. So the Senate Bill 1418 in the first part, puts a moratorium on the reduction and maintains that figure at 45. The second part of the Bill was last year, we passed Senate Bill 52 which indicated that school systems could use...rent vans to bring people to extra curricular activities. It was immediately found that there was a couple of flaws in this, one of which was that it only allowed school districts to rent vans. The school districts wanted to use vans that they owned as part 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 of this. And also it said that the insurance had to be with an Illinois firm and this excluded all those school districts and many, many school districts that self-insure. So, this Bill would allow school districts to use their own purchased vans, which would be safer and also to use self-insurance which is the method of most of the larger school districts in the state. These are the two sections I'd be pleased to take any questions."

"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion and on that, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will yield to your question."

"Thank you. Representative, the insurance provisions that you mentioned to...I think I caught the drift of it. Is the extent of it just going to be allowed for self-insurance?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"That is the intent, for self-insured school districts."

"Representative Dart."

"Because, the provisions it dealt with allowing Illinois...was it Illinois companies for the insurance? Has that provision been deleted?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"Yes, it has."

"Representative Dart."

"Would this still focus though, the attention as far as the insurance, trying to keep it within the state, though?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"It's an interesting provision because this and any of the other school insurance policies, you are not required to keep them inside the state. Liability or any of the 80  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 others, with the insurance industry as it is, there is SO much pooling and the pooling is with companies outside the state. This is an interesting provision when they put it in saying, 'only Illinois companies that are certified by the state.' This takes that out SO that you can use self-insurance and that is the intent of it."

"Representative Dart."

"Is there any concern with the fact that some of these insurance companies that you're talking about, because they no longer are required to be licensed in this state, that they may be less than reputable insurance companies that then might not be able to fulfill their obligations?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"Obviously, it's a concern but this falls back to the exact same language we have for every other insurance policy for a school district. So, it is the exact same language we have for liability, exact same language we have for regular bus accidents. Any of the insurance policies the school district has."

"Representative Dart."

"Was there any intent when this was written to include...make the requirement in Illinois, was there any intent though, that the focus was to make sure that we have solvent insurance companies involved with this particular activity, namely bus driving, as opposed to all the other ones, though?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"I wasn't part of the original legislation but I would assume that their intent was to make sure that it was the policy of the state to have these insured and the language was used for certified Illinois insurance companies."

"Representative Dart." 81  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Thank you, just my final questions. deletions about requiring a rental May 7, 1996 In regards to the for hire arrangement, will the only impact of that language that's being deleted then, allow for those individuals that own their own buses, though?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"You're exactly correct, Representative Dart."

"No further? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Washington, Representative Deering."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will be happy to yield to your question, Sir."

"Representative, by passing this legislation, hopefully, if the Governor signs it in to law, this will once and for all take of the Regional Superintendent issue that we've been dealing with for some years?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"If you go back into the history of this, in the late '60s, they reduced from 102 down to 78. They then reduced down from 78 to 56, from 56 to 45. So, I think that this is a organization than does look at need, does look at changing times. I would indicate that as needs increase or decrease, this will be revisited, but at this particular point, the efficiencies necessary to have good intermediate offices to support the State Board and to support the school districts and students, the efficiency needs to be kept at 45."

"Representative Deering."

"Representative, does this legislation address anything with the Cook County Superintendent?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"Unfortunately, no." 82  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Representative Deering." May 7, 1996

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, no further questions."

"Rep... Any further? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will yield for your question, Sir."

"If this is an Act that we will remain then at the 45, as oppose to downsizing by 10, is that correct?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"Correct."

"Representative Mautino."

"Do we know which of the...which of the 10 were scheduled to be reduced?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"Yeah, there are 10 designated to be reduced and that number would obviously freeze and they would then get the services of the Educational Service Centers given to them and this would allow all 45 having equal status in the state."

"Representative Mautino."

"Are the...is the Regional Superintendent's Association in favor, everyone's on board on this?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"Absolutely."

"Representative Mautino."

"Is there any opposition..."

"Representative Hoeft."

"...that you know of at this point?"

"Representative Mautino, I apologize for interrupting your question. Representative Hoeft."

"The State Board is on line with this, Regional 83  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 Superintendents. There are a few individuals who made commitments when we passed this two years ago and they want to maintain those commitments and the matter of integrity of the negotiation process. But, they are few in number, although they definitely do have a legitimate concern."

"Representative Mautino, any further? Seeing none, the Chair would recognize the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Pedersen."

"Yes, will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will yield to your question, Sir."

"Now you, as I understand it, for the last couple of years or so, we've reduced the numbers and at the same time increased the pay of those who continue to do their duties?"

"Representative Hoeft."

"The amount of money that the state is spending on the regional offices since 1994 will be reduced by $90 thousand no matter what we do here today. So, the line item, Representative Pedersen, is down by $90 thousand."

"Representative Pedersen."

"I was talking about the pay of the Regional Superintendents. By the time we reduced the numbers, we increase their pay. That was my understanding and I assume that it was because their duties were heavier, their obligations were more or something like that."

"Representative Hoeft."

"The numbers were reduced by 20%. The salaries were increased commensurate to the additional load."

"Representative Pedersen."

"And now, we're going back to the same numbers as before SO they'll have a lesser load but they're going to 84  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day have the higher pay?"

"Representative Hoeft." May 7, 1996

"No, Sir. They were at 56 with roughly a $6 million budget. We reduced them to 45 and maintained that budget. So, they are not going back anywhere. We are maintaining the number. We are maintaining the same responsibilities and maintaining the same expenditure for the state. As a matter of fact, as I said, the state is spending $90 thousand less than they previously did three...two years ago."

"Representative Pedersen."

"Yeah, but my question was about the pay of the Superintendents, not the budget and I just...I guess my...what I understand has happened is that we've reduced the numbers, they got an increase in pay, now we're increasing the numbers back to where they were SO in effect, they all have the higher pay but they don't have the increased...they've had a reduced responsibility because they have the increased numbers."

"Representative Hoeft."

"No, Sir. We reduced the number from 56 to 45 and we're going to keep that number at 45. It never will go back to 56 if I'm in this General Assembly."

"Representative Pedersen."

"No more questions."

"Any further discussion? Seeing none, the Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Kane, Representative Hoeft to close."

"Excellent Bill. Good public policy. It'll be a safer school van and it'll be a more efficient educational administration level from the State Board to the school districts. I ask for an 'aye' vote." 85  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day Speaker May 7, 1996

"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1418 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 111 voting 'yes'; 1 voting 'no' and 3 voting 'present', and this Bill, Senate Bill 1418 having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, committee notice."

"Committee notice. Rules Committee will meet in the Speaker's Conference Room at 4:00 p.m. Rules Committee, at 4:00p.m. in the Speaker's Conference Room."

"Mr. Clerk, continuing on the Order of Senate Bill's Third Reading, please read Senate Bill 1513."

"Senate Bill 1513, a Bill for an Act that amends the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"And on that matter, the Chair recognizes the Lady from McHenry, Representative Hughes."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Senate Bill 1513 requires that each unit of local government participating in a General Assistance Program shall provide either necessary treatment, care, and supplies required because of illness or disability or acute medical treatment, care, and supplies only. Without reading the rest of that paragraph, this Bill is in response to a very large concern of township government. Because Public Aid is no longer reimbursing for interim assistance and has changed the rules for General Assistance, that burden has fallen in an unlimited scope on township government and their General Assistance Funds. This is an attempt to not mandate but 86  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 allow them to adopt policies to provide for acute care and treatment so that in those instances, where they feel the demand exceeds their resources, the dollars will go to treat the most needy medical situations. This Bill passed the Senate unanimously. There was some wording concerns by the Medical Society that have been worked out. The Department of Public Aid is neutral on this Bill. Again, this is not a mandate. It allows our townships to have an option to utilize their resources. To apply those resources that are limited to the most critical need. I would answer questions."

"You've heard the Lady's Motion. Is there any discussion? And on that, the Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Schakowsky."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Lady yield?"

"The Lady indicates she'll yield to your questions, Representative."

"Well, in our never ending march to turn our backs on the poor, we now want to free up counties and townships from their historical role. I understand what you're saying. If I understand what you're saying, it is that because the state no longer will provide these services, we don't...we'll no longer require townships to do so either, is that the gist?"

"Representative Hughes."

"I'm sorry, I didn't hear the very last of that question. This is...it is because of the state no longer funding medical care for interim assistance."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"So, what services are we talking about that townships no longer need to provide?"

"Representative Hughes." 87  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"Townships, if this Bill passes, would have the option to adopt a policy that would say, medical reimbursement would be provided for acute medical treatment, care, or supplies necessitated by a medical condition for which prior approval or authorization of medical treatment, care, or supplies is not required by the General Assistance rules by the Department of Public Aid. That is the minimum standard that could be adopted by townships, that they would provide reimbursement for those acute needs."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"You know, I understand what you said, Representative, but that isn't responsive to my question. I think it's important when we pass Bills like this, that we spell out exactly what we're doing. What is it now, that townships no longer have to provide for poor people? I understand it's their option and I want to ask some questions about that, too. But, let's talk about what kind of services, the poor now, who were getting services before, no longer need to get?"

"Were you finished, Representative Schakowsky, with your question? Representative Hughes."

"All other medical services that would not fall under this definition."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"So, we're talking about dental care, is that correct? And, we're talking about all eye care and all pediatric care and pharmaceuticals, are those the things now that nobody needs to provide as soon as we pass this Bill?"

"Representative Hughes."

"Those are things that after a deliberative process, a township could choose not to cover." 88  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Representative Schakowsky." May 7, 1996

"As part of that deliberative process, does this Bill require them to show that providing those services was in anyway a burden, that they're unable to provide those services?"

"Representative Hughes."

"There is not specific language in this Bill to that effect. Township officials have made it clear that they will be working over a period of months to develop policies and procedures for their members, SO that they can set standards such as, that they will have reached their tax rate maximum, would be one example. One example of the policies that would be developed for the use of townships by their association, would be that they have reached their maximum tax rate."

"Representative Schakowsky, under a minute."

"Is that a statement of intent of this legislation, that one of the requirements or one of the qualifications would be that they had, in fact, spent their maximum?"

"Representative Hughes."

"That was a representation made by township officials. That...that is the best way I can describe that."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Well then, what kind of reports are we going to get from the townships about the criteria used for making the decision, about the extent to which they had spent to the maximum?"

"Representative Hughes."

"There are no reporting requirements in this Bill."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Are you saying then, that there's no monitoring at all of the affects of..." 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"Representative Schakowsky, please conclude your question."

"Are you saying then, that there's no monitoring requirement for the affects of this legislation?"

"Representative Hughes."

"There's no formalized monitoring. However, I believe that should there be a large need out there that is not being met that those parties who are underserved and their advocates will certainly make that known."

"Any further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Parke."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will yield to your question, Sir."

"Thank you. Representative, let me get this straight now. Township officials ask you to put this Bill in?"

"Representative Hughes."

"This is a township official's initiative."

"Representative Parke."

"And, the reason they want to put this Bill in is in case there is a huge claim put against the Township General Assistance Fund, that they may not have enough revenue to do so and if not, what recourse would the township be able to...or be forced to take without your legislation?"

"Representative Hughes."

"The potential here, would be to almost bankrupt a township. What this does is allow them, not after the fact of a case, but prior to that, to assess what their demands are relative to their financial resources and say, rather than pay a podiatrist bill a 100 times, we're going to pay for that critical open-heart surgery if that is what's needed." 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Representative Parke." May 7, 1996 Parke "So, in essence, the township is still going to provide...in other words, the township is still going to provide for the needy. Will still provide for the needs of those people who will come to township government but in essence, what we're doing is that for huge claims, we're putting some kind of a cap on that to make sure that the integrity of the township government is protected?"

"Representative Hughes."

"They really don't have a mechanism for capping. The only mechanism they would have under this Bill is to say dollars must go to cover these acute needs. Those which are exempt from prior approval by Public Aid."

"Representative Parke."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill. Ladies and Gentlemen, it seems to me like this is common sense legislation. This is a Bill that it protects the integrity of township government. Still allows the needy to be able to go to township to get service. As many of us know, township government is the closest service to the people that there is. Ladies and Gentlemen, I rise in support and ask the Body to support this worthwhile legislation."

"Any further discussion? Seeing none, the Chair recognizes the Lady to close."

"Thank you. This is a Bill which allows better management of limited resources. Better management to focus those resources on those in acute need. This a Bill that would benefit every township in the state and I urge a 'yes' vote. Thank you."

"You've heard the Lady's Motion. The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1513 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open 91  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 101 voting 'yes'; 5 voting 'no'; 5 voting 'present' and Senate Bill 1513, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1518."

"Senate Bill 1518, a Bill for an Act amending the Unified Code of Corrections. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Leitch on Senate Bill 1518."

"Thank you, very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1518 is a Bill which passed the Senate 55 to 0. It's a Bill that provides within the Prisoner Review Board for a six month experiment with interactive television. with respect to parole hearings, and it's a Bill that I think will move us forward into the twenty-first century. A number of counties are already using this system between their courthouses and their jails for security and other reasons. Soon, States Attorneys will be using this in 16 prison sites throughout Illinois and this Bill proposes to do an experiment with the Prisoner Review Board members being able to interview prisoners through interactive television as opposed to having to go to the site itself. It's estimated that it will save a considerable amount of money by virtue of not having to deal with a large number of...making easier the ability to deal with a large number of scheduling problems. Not having to have so many people on the road all the time, the per diems and all the rest of it, and I think it's a very worthwhile experiment and one which I think the General Assembly should look forward to receiving the 92  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 results from. And with that, I'd be pleased to answer any questions."

"You've heard the Gentleman and on that matter, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from McHenry, Representative Skinner."

"I wonder if the Sponsor could tell us if the members of the Review Board still are each assigned a car for their personal use?"

"The Gentleman indicates he will yield to your question. Representative Leitch."

"To my knowledge, they are assigned a car, yes."

"Representative Skinner."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I guess I address this to you. If this Bill passes, they should not have a car. Thank you."

"And on this matter, is there any further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Pugh."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will yield to your question, Representative. Please, proceed."

"Representative, in this piece of legislation, you state that the Prison Review Board will begin to interview inmates, and I'm assuming these are C-number inmates?"

"Representative Leitch."

"Yes, Sir. They're roughly 600-C mate...or C Section inmates left and this would only apply to good conduct hearings of which there were nearly 2900 of them last year and parole hearings. Let me say that the other hearings that are conducted for example, revocation of parole, the release state and some of those others are not included in this demonstration project." 93  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"Representative Pugh."

"And so, in the event that some administrative rule is broken, that's the only time that the Prison Review Board will send in the one member. What is the current...what is the current requirements when there's a hearing for some behavioral adjustment to take place? Is there a requirement that calls for three members to sit in on the hearings, or can one individual review a case?"

"Representative Leitch."

"This Bill covers the two circumstances where presently, one reviews the case and shares it with two other members and then they vote. It does not extend to the circumstance I think that you are describing."

"Representative Pugh."

"And, this is merely a pilot program?"

"Representative Leitch."

"Yes, at the end of the Bill, we'll have an effective date of January 1st, '97, and then there would be a six month program and after that the DOC and CMS and the Prisoner Review Board would share with us, the findings from that demonstration project."

"Representative Pugh."

"And so, why do we have just the six month review process for a pilot program? It's normally, isn't usually a year to determine the effectiveness of a program?"

"Representative Leitch."

"It would be fine with me if it were extended but the program that has been put forward and is endorsed by the Department of Corrections and the others have recommended a six month program."

"Representative Pugh."

"Representative Leitch, would this apply to Clemency 94  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day Hearings also?"

"Representative Leitch."

"No."

"Representative Pugh."

"Thank you. I have no further questions." May 7, 1996

"Any further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Washington, Representative Deering."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates that he will yield to your questions. Please, proceed."

"Representative, we're going to allow a person to go in front of a smaller group of members from the Parole Board to try and seek parole, is that correct?"

"Representative Leitch."

"No, it's not different than it is presently, in the two cases or the two instances in which this demonstration project addresses."

"Representative Deering."

"So, the individuals that are appointed to this board will still have to fulfill their duties. I mean, we're not doing this so...to make it easier for them to pursue other interests while they are appointed to the Review Board, is that correct?"

"Representative Leitch."

"I'm sorry. I can not hear the Gentleman's question."

"Representative Deering, would you care to repeat the question?"

"Yes, are we trying to do this to make it easier for the Review Board members, the current members, to pursue other interests? Is this making it easier for them to get out of sitting in these hearings or will they have to still fulfill their duties?" 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"Representative Wojcik in the Chair."

"I think the goal is to experiment with the efficiencies that would result from having a Prisoner Review Board member be able to not have to run all over the state to spend a few minutes with a prisoner and incur all those expenses. But to understand how it will work if the individual instead is able to be at an interactive television terminal and interview the prisoner under that setting. But, I again emphasize, in the cases that we are talking about here, presently, one member of the board goes out around the state to some prison setting, then has to get scheduled with the other two and make a recommendation to the full board. And so, that does not change. The only thing that changes, is that the individual who is making the recommendation to his counterparts will have done this from the basis of an interactive t.v. interview, a close up interview, as oppose to having gone out physically to the site."

"Representative Deering."

"So, instead of doing this on a face to face basis, now we're going to rely on television. How will the Prisoner Review Board get an accurate reading of say, an inmates facial expression, his body English, body language or whatever? I mean, do you think that this is in the best interest of the safety of the public?"

"Representative Leitch."

"Yes, as a matter of fact, interactive t.v. can give a better reading in some cases, the body language and facial expression and it also offers the opportunity to roll back the tape and to look at it even more closely if that is in effect, is at the concern. Secondly, I would suggest that this is a demonstration project to learn whether that 96  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 concern is a valid one."

"Representative Deering."

"Will this...the view of the prisoner, will it be a full body view or will it be just the head and shoulder view?"

"Representative Leitch."

"I don't know. My assumption is that it would be a full body view or it could change. I mean, I...they could...they could bring it up close, they could hold it back at a full body view. I think...I don't know precisely what the cameraman is going to recommend there."

"Representative Deering."

"My analysis says the Prisoner Review Board is an opponent to that legislation. Is that correct, and if so, why?"

"Representative Leitch."

"At the present time, yes, they are. And I understand it's for the reason that you cite, which is they're making the case that should be an in person interview to read body language and so forth. Whether that is true or not, I don't know. I mean, whether that turns out to be a valid point, I don't know. I do know that in many other settings and increasingly across Illinois, this process is and will be used in the future."

"Representative Deering."

"Is the Prisoner Review Board appointed by the Governor?"

"Representative Leitch."

"Yes."

"Representative Deering. Bring your question..."

"And, you may not have these facts and figures for me, but could you embellish for the Body what the salary of the member of the Review Board is?" 97  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"Representative Deering, I've given you an extra minute and I'll give you another one. Representative Leitch."

"I believe it's $60 thousand. Sixty thousand I believe is the number and I believe there are ll members."

"Representative Deering."

"Just nod your head. Was that a 60 or a 16? Six zero? Thank you, no further questions."

"Is there any further discussion? Seeing none, Representative Leitch to close."

"I'd simply ask for a favorable vote."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1518 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 102 'ayes'; 8 'nays', 2 voting 'present', and this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1550, read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill 1550, a Bill for an Act amending the Illinois Act on Aging. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Murphy." Murphy, Μ.: "Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen. Senate Bill 1550 amends the Illinois Act on Aging. Requires the Department on Aging to develop...implement a statewide, through it's area agencies on aging network, a Senior Benefits Advocacy Program to assist individuals from coping with the paperwork and red tape of public benefits programs. I'll stand for questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg is recognized." 98  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Thank you, Madam Speaker.

May 7, 1996 Will the Lady yield?" "She indicates she will."

"Representative Murphy, our analysis indicates that this is going to cost $1 million just for the first half of FY97, is that accurate?"

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, Μ.: "It's an Representative. accurate portrayal of your analysis, As you know, this is not an Appropriation Bill and I would stipulate that's a ambitious figure at this time."

"Mr. Clerk, are there any messages?"

"The Rules Committee is meeting immediately in the Speaker's Conference Room. The Rules Committee is meeting immediately in the Speaker's Conference Room."

"Representative Granberg."

"Well, maybe you like to vote on programs you don't Do you know know the cost of, but we like to be informed. how much this program is going to cost to implement?"

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, Μ.: "The Fiscal Note that has been filed does indicate that...we believe the department can assign one staff person a maximum of a quarter time for a six month period to accomplish this purpose of legislation. The cost identified would be paid from normal operating expenses of the department with regard to any of the figures that we're talking about, the $1 million. Again, I want to stipulate that there is a separate Appropriation Companion Bill and I would argue that again, the budget is not complete. I do believe $1.1 million for six months worth of budget is rather ambitious. Yet, I do believe that there is some room in negotiations for the budget to have this program funded." 99  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"Representative Granberg."

"It's not that difficult, Representative. What is the cost of the program? What has the department said...What did they indicate the program will cost? That's all, it's..."

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, M.: "I indicated that already, Representative, that the estimated cost, which is ambitious, could be approximately $1.1 million for six months. There's a separate Appropriation Companion Bill, where we will hammer out a less ambitious figure."

"Representative Granberg."

"So, it's $1.1 million for the first half of the next fiscal year. You agree with that?".

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, M.: "This Bill is effective January 1st, 1997, and I can not prognosticate what the Appropriation Bill would end up being."

"Representative Granberg."

"So, has the department indicated they will actually implement this service if this Bill passes, becomes law?"

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, M.: "They did indicate, as I read into the record, that the department would be able to assign one staff person for a quarter time, six month period to accomplish the purpose of this legislation and it's to be paid from normal operating expenses. The implementation cost of this legislation, without additional appropriation are as follows: approximately $18,012 estimated cost for staff, fringe benefits, training, and materials."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. Now, I received a call from my local area 100  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 on aging and the manager of that system indicated to me that they already perform a number of these services and this is unnecessary legislation. They...in fact, they don't want to be mandated to do anymore because they already carry out these services. Now, why would my local representative be concerned with this legislation. On the face it sounds good. It sounds something like it's very positive, but she indicated to me that these are already being provided. Can you give me any citations or can you show what services are not being provided currently by the Department on Aging?"

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, Μ.: "First of all, it's more than about money or services. It has to do with for example, AARP as we all know, one of our very active senior organizations has what is called...they've received legislation favorably in Wisconsin called Elderly Benefit Specialist. What we're finding is that not all seniors are aware of what they have coming to them. So again, we have an army of volunteers, legions of volunteers if you will, who want to help their fellow seniors. There's a certain sense of advocacy, of friendship, of commitment that results as we've evidenced in the Southwest Suburban area. This has been piloted. We have had a good system of delivery of service but not only that, they've recouped in at least one of the analysis' that I had of $44 thousand that some of our seniors would not have had if they didn't have this help. So again, there's more than just having staff. This is about empowering legions of volunteers, of seniors that want to add to the volunteer base and want to help their fellow seniors. So again, I submit there's a lot more that possibly your area..." 101  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Representative Granberg, questions to a close?" May 7, 1996 would you bring your

"One of the other points my friend represented to me, and this is a former board that I served on, was that they feel other programs are much more valuable. They would rather add these funds on...into the Meals on Wheels or other programs. Are you saying this is more important than the Meals-on-Wheels program? Why wouldn't we put those funds into that...that already existing program, where we have seen the positive results?"

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, M.: "No, excuse me, Representative, it's the same church, different pew. I'm always trying to get more money for Meals-on-Wheels and we can certainly understand that, but there's a certain amount of our elderly seniors that are not lassoing. if you will, the moneys that they have. And knowing that they have some of the same precious dollar problems where, when you see what the rising prescriptions are, when you see what the rising bills are, particularly for repairs. It's important that our seniors get everything that they have coming to them and not be stymied by bureaucratic red tape."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. To the Bill. Unfortunately, Representative Murphy has a Bill that sounds very good. I've met with my representatives on our local areas on aging. They think their priority is the existing Meals-on-Wheels program and others downstate in down tate Illinois, much more valuable and they don't need anymore mandated unfunded programs. So, with due...with some reluctance, I intend to not to vote to support the legislation because, there are other and better things we 102  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 can do. And, until that time, I will ask my other friends to consider the consequences to downstate until we're sure that the money will be available and there will no longer be anymore unfunded mandates on these very important programs."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Jo Daviess, Representative Lawfer is recognized."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in support of the concept of this Bill. This is a Bill known as the Red Tape Cutter Program. I think that this program has been thoroughly discussed but, on the other hand I'd like to point out that the program is designed primarily to use volunteers to use the bulk of the work under the direction of staff people. I would hope that as this program moves forward, that the area agencies would utilize existing personnel as well as computer capability, so that they can cut down on the amount of staff work that is needed so that they could use the data from the computers to show what people are eligible for and utilize, fully utilize the use of untrained volunteers that are willing to come in and support this program. Therefore, I urge a support of this program and this Bill. Thank you."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Effingham, Representative Hartke is recognized."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative Murphy, I'm a little bit confused here. You're suggesting that the cost to State Government would be about $1 million, $1.1 million if this legislation passes. Is that correct?" 103  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, Μ.: "No, that is not correct because this is not an Appropriation Bill. This was an estimate that was came upon by the Suburban Council on Aging. Again, I have indicated for the record, on purpose, that when the Companion Appropriation Bill comes before us, that we would work for a less ambitious amount. Many people on the budget process ask for far more than what it could really cost. I envision a smaller cost and if this passes, only the idea passes, there's no money attached to this Bill."

"Representative Hartke."

"Let me rephrase the question. Now, I've been around here a long time, too, and I realize this is not an Appropriation Bill, but the estimated cost, if this Bill should pass and there is an appropriation to fulfill the desires of this Bill, as I understood you, would be $1.1 million for the first six months. Now, let me ask you, if we were to pass this Bill and appropriate the money to implement this Bill, that $1.1 million would be used to train staff or would that be the amount that these individuals who are now trained and put forth the programs, that they would qualify for more circuit breakers, more property tax relief, more of this type of programs? Now, if it only cost $1.1 million to train these people or to put the staff together for the education and so forth, it might cost us another $15 or 20 million in tax breaks or circuit breaker awards to these individuals. Am I wrong or right?"

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, Μ.: "Representative, you wanted to know how this money...if it would be...if $2.1 million makes it out of appropriation, there will be a formula through the 13 area 104  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 agency councils, as you well know, so it would be in a proportionate manner, a funding formula to be distributed. However, this program would help older Illinoisians negotiate the paperwork and regulations they've...applying for state and federal programs for which they would be eligible. Well, let me reassure you about something else, Representative. If no Appropriation Bill passes, if this Bill passes today, at the very least, we have a commitment from the Department of Aging that for a short six month period of time, they can staff one staff person and the minimum cost would be $18 thousand for the six month period of time. And, what the agencies are looking for are some computers or some networks that they may need, only to empower the local agency to empower legends of volunteers. This is not about more state employees, Representative. For the record, this is about getting those volunteers trained to help one another."

"Representative Hartke."

"Now, I understand that and that's all well and good and I really hope that we do have the money to train the volunteer staffs and to computerize all of our area agencies on aging, so that more seniors will become available with the various programs that we do have for them. I hear it all the time, 'What are you doing for senior citizens'? They're a main lobby group down here. The AARP come down all the time and ask us to do this and that and everything for them and that's wonderful. What about our...would we not...would we not have more money available for these senior programs if we just gave that money to those senior programs for their Meals-on-Wheels, as was discussed earlier or maybe a transportation bus. You know, downstate, we don't have all the necessary bus 105  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 routes that you may have in the suburbs. My area agencies on aging and senior citizens are looking for transportation for vans and things like that. Could maybe, this money not be well spent in that area alone?"

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, Μ.: "To the tail end of your question, Representative, again, seniors just don't need Meals-on-Wheels. I f you start hearing how expensive their cost of living is, their electric bills, their gas bills. To deliver Meals-on-Wheels without just...without regard to some of the other necessities. And, they're not niceties, they're necessities. And, when we can empower these seniors to get a little bit more for their. Go ahead."

"You're on." Murphy, Μ.: "Thank you. It isn't about where we prioritize. It's about helping many varieties of seniors. Some seniors benefit from Meals-on-Wheels program, some will benefit from this. But, you know who else will benefit, Representative? The hundreds of volunteers who are helping their fellow seniors. It's already been piloted. It's not like we haven't tried this with out success and if we can help them rope in more of their dollars, that they can spend themselves in the niceties and priorities versus necessities, why don't we empower our seniors to do so?"

"Representative Hartke."

"Thank you for giving the time. I hope you aren't quoted on what you just said when you said that senior citizens don't need Meals-on-Wheels. I think you're in error there. But, I think Representative Mulligan, the Appropriations Committee, just cut $ll million out of the senior budget. Is that true?"

"Representative Mulligan. Representative Hartke, 106  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 we'll bring your remarks to a close and we'll have her answer in one more minute. Representative Murphy." Murphy, M.: "I am not on that committee."

"Representative Hartke."

"You're not aware of what happened to the Aging Budget in the Appropriation Committee? Well, let me inform you. I think that someone suggested that their agency could be cut by $ll million. And I really appreciate you trying to put $1.1 million back in. But isn't that taking out of the pocket, a dime, and putting a penny in the other and think you're doing some good? Actually, if you restored the budget to where it is, seniors aging programs wouldn't have the problem that they may have next year if the present budget, as we know, passes. That's all. Thank you."

"Is there any further discussion? The Lady from Cook, Representative Mulligan is recognized."

"Thank you, Madam Chair. I rise in support of this Bill. Representative Hartke had just a little discrepancy there. At one point, there was a Bill which has never passed out of the House, that rolled the budget back to the level of '96. The Department of aging lapsed $ll million and some of us were on this Bill and the House Bill wanted to use some of that money for this program, which is approximately $1.1 million. As Representative Murphy pointed out, there is no appropriation with this Bill but what the money would go to is a program that would assist in the universal pre-screening that we are...that's going to become, or is a Federal Mandate. It would assist seniors in staying in their homes. The big concern we have, particularly with the cost of Medicaid, is the amount of money it cost to put a senior in a nursing home. Quite frankly, to stay in your own home is much less expensive 107  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 and the quality of life for a senior is much better. And, if you have good case management, part of which is made up by volunteers that are trained with this money and not all paid for by state dollars, the quality of a senior's life assisting them to stay in their home for a longer period of time would be quite beneficial. Both in the cost of Medicaid dollars over the long run for years to come and the quality of life for the senior citizens of Illinois. I'm sure Representative Murphy, did not indicate anything about not putting any additional money in Meals-on-Wheels. As you know, she was one of the people that was circulating the letter around on the House Floor, to increase the amount of money that goes into the Meals-on-Wheels program; which many of us, particularly those from the collar counties and suburban Cook would like to see additional money to go to. But, this money was not cut out of the budget, that was not the intent and quite frankly, this, I think, is a very good program that we should look how we should fund in later times, to actually save the state money in the long run."

"Is there any further discussion? The Lady from Cook, Representative Flowers is recognized."

"Madam Speaker, I would like to yield my time to Representative Hartke."

"The Gentleman from Effingham, Representative Hartke: Hartke." "Well, thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Mary, thank you for the time. I don't want to argue with Representative Mulligan. That's not the issue here at the time. Whether it's an Appropriation Bill, whether it was or was not. These are estimated lapsed revenues. Aging has advised they're going to use half that money, but 108  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 that's another issue. Representative Mulligan. Excuse me. Representative Murphy. Is your hope...is your hope then to provide these area agencies on aging with the necessary wherewithal to put in computers and train' volunteers to hire one person in each of the area agencies on aging to train individuals to take care of the many programs and to advise seniors of the many programs that we have available right now, on board for our seniors, is that correct?"

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, M.: "Recognizing that, that's the essence of my hope, yes, Representative Hartke. Knowing full well, we're going to have to hammer this out and I want to have a less ambitious...I want to know just what kind of hardware, what kind of software will we need for each of these agencies and that's what the area agencies on aging will be coming forward. So we can have a plan that's workable, that's doable and affordable. So that is my intent and I'm glad you asked me that for the record."

"Representative Hartke."

"So, you're going to be training volunteers? Hiring one person in each agency, possibly, and then training volunteers to go to the seniors' homes or to talk to them where they're in the senior centers, to ask them what kind of programs they would like to have, which ones they think they would qualify for, which ones they would not qualify for and then compare it against the computer as far as income guidelines, et cetera?"

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, M.: "I do envision the greatest cost to be getting all the data and cross matching things. And yes, more volunteers than paid, and if I were doing things, it would 109  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 be just like you had outline. However, that's going to be up to each area on agency to use the funds that they have to the best way that they can. If they want to hire a timeshare and hire two or three people instead of one, again, I'm sure their budget will be rather limited, but I'd rather that local component may made their decision. But again, I could see one person that's trained and know what's happening. But again, I can't speak to how diverse this state is, so I don't want be too presumptive on that."

"Representative Hartke."

"Well, this gets back to my original point. One million dollars maybe the first six months, $2 million cost, but when we do that, we will then probably envision that maybe what, 3%, 5%, 10% of the seniors are not aware of the programs that are available to them. They will then take advantage of various state programs. Any idea what that's going to cost the State of Illinois?"

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, M.: "Well, first of all, Representative, when some of these goodies, as you've said, have been given away, some of its by the General Assembly, as you've said, Circuit Breaker and some of those, we don't look at how much it's very hard to exponentially to talk. But, this isn't finders keepers, Representative. You know, if there are people that qualify for these programs that have money, that the state or any program owes them, it's their money. And, thank God that we had some people that helped them get it because, by giving them that money, they may be able to stay in their home longer. They may have a higher quality of life and they may be able to buy the necessities and have some air of dignity that they don't feel that they're on the public dole." 110  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Representative Hartke." May 7, 1996 "Well, I guess in effect what you're saying is that you want to make sure that this entitlement program that we have made available to the seniors in the State of Illinois, is used to 100% of the intent of the General Assembly. Is that correct?"

"Representative Murphy." Murphy, Μ.: "No. What this has to do with, we want to make sure that those that can and meet the criteria, will apply for whatever programs that they are entitled to."

Hartke: close." "Representative Hartke, bring your questions to a "Thank you, Representative Murphy."

"Is there any further discussion? The Lady from Cook, Representative Erwin is recognized."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Actually, I rise on a point of personal privilege, if I might. I would like my colleagues in the House to join me in welcoming one of our former colleagues. The distinguished former Member from Lincoln Park, Ann Stepan."

"With no one seeking recognition, Representative Murphy to close." Murphy, Μ.: "Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen. Once again, this is an idea that has been tried. It's been piloted in Southwest Suburban Cook County. It brings...it's been brought forth by the South Suburban Council on Aging. Every area agency would benefit by this. We do need to hammer out some of the costs. This is not going to be one of those, 'let's grow government awards', but rather, 'what can we do to empower the legions of seniors out there who are willing, ready and able to be volunteers. Wisconsin has such a program and again, we 111  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 only want our seniors to be able to 'lasso', if you will, the money that they have hard worked for back, if it's coming to them. And, who better than their own colleagues, their own fellow seniors, their neighbors to help them through the bureaucracy of red tape that quite frankly, many of us here on this chamber have added to. This is a great program. It bears your consideration. It is not an Appropriation Bill. We will try to make it as lean as we possibly can when it comes time for appropriation. Thank you for your concern and your 'aye' vote is really needed. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1550 pass'? All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 95 'ayes'; 16 'nays'; 1 voting 'present', and this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Committee Reports, Mr. Clerk."

"Committee Report from Representative Churchill, Chairman from Committee on Rules for which the following Joint Action Motions were referred. Action taken on April...taken on May 7, 1996. Reported the same back. Do approve for consideration. To the House Floor, Floor Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 761. Floor Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1470. Floor Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1604. Floor Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1473. Floor Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1279 and Resolutions. House Resolution 104 and House Joint Resolution #102."

"Supplemental Calendar Announcements."

"Supplemental Calendar #1 is being distributed." 112  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

May 7, 1996 "Representative Black, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Yes, thank you very much, Madam Speaker. A point of personal privilege, if I might."

"State your point."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I know many of you know John Cross, who was a Member of the House Republican staff for many years and is now the Legislative Liaison for the Illinois Pollution Control Board. Many of you realize that John fell ill last week, was taken to the hospital where they discovered a growth on one of his kidneys. That kidney was surgically removed today at Springfield Memorial Hospital. John is out of surgery and is in the recovery room and hopefully the prognosis will be good. For those of you that know John and we're working on a Resolution wishing him Godspeed, but if you'd like the room number of the hospital here in Springfield, I have it at my desk. I know many of you would like to join with Members on both sides of the aisle in sending John a card and certainly, keeping John in our thoughts and prayers at this particular point in his life. But he is out of surgery, in the recovery room and we all wish John Cross Godspeed"

"Mr. Clerk, what is the status of Senate Bill 1780?"

"Senate Bill 1780 is on the Order of Third Reading."

"Please, return the Bill to the Order of Second Reading. Proceeding on the Order is Senate Bill's Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1319,"

"Senate Bill 1390 (sic-1319), the Bill been read a Second... Excuse me, Senate Bill 1319, the Bill's been 113  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 read a second time, previously. Floor Amendment #1 was referred to Rules. A Fiscal Note and a State's Mandates Note have been requested on the Bill and have been filed."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1470."

"Senate Bill 1470, the Bill's been read a second time, previously. Committee Amendment #1 was ruled nongermane. Floor Amendment #2 was referred to rules and has been approved for consideration, and is offered by Representative Durkin."

"Representative Durkin is recognized on Floor Amendment #2."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Floor Amendment 2 to Senate Bill 1470 addresses a concern that was brought in Judiciary 1, regarding the intent of the Bill. The Bill as it was presented, stated that we were taking the State's Attorney out from the position of being appointed as a guardian ad litem in an adoption case. The way it was drafted presently, in its present form in 1470 stated that the courts shall appoint some licensed attorney as guardian ad litem. After reviewing the matter more closely with the proponent and the person who had asked us to make this type of necessary change, we felt that it was his intention that the State's Attorney would be completely in his official capacity should not be serving as a guardian ad litem; however, we are amending the Bill to state that the attorney...the court shall appoint some licensed attorney other than the State's Attorney acting in his official capacities. Therefore, the State's Attorney will not be acting officially as a guardian ad litem. However, the court has given the opportunity to appoint him in his unofficial capacity as a private attorney to act as a 114  126th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 guardian ad litem. I believe this addresses some of the questions which were brought in Judicial 1 and which also reflects what the Sponsor up in the Senate and also the individual who brought that to his intention. It reflects their intentions."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart is recognized."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"This was a question that came up in committee. So, how's the status going to be changed now? The State's Attorneys are going to be allowed to do it, but only in private capacity, is that it?"

"Representative Durkin."

"That's correct."

"Representative Dart."

"All right, if I'm not mistaken, that was the only concern we had while this was being discussed in Judiciary because of the way it had been written, it seemed as if they were completely prohibited but now, they can as long as it's outside of their official capacity?"

"Representative Durkin."

"That's correct. As it was presently drafted, it says that the courts still can appoint some licensed attorney and a lot of us thought that this does not preclude the State's Attorney being officially appointed and this Amendment would take the State's Attorney out, acting as a State's Attorney and I think it's something which happens often. I think particularly, outside of the collar counties. We just don't want the State's Attorney, that's not his area of expertise and if he feels that he can address that issue in another fashion, fine. There are 115  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 plenty of other attorneys out there who need work and who would be more than willing to...would be benefiting from this legislation."

"Representative Dart."

"Especially after Tort Reform, there's a lot of them looking for work. Are the State's Attorneys all in agreement on this Bill, by and large? Do the State's Attorneys all agree to this?"

"Representative Durkin."

"Yes, the State's Attorney Association agrees. Cook County State's Attorney in favor of this matter and so is DuPage."

"Representative Dart. With no one seeking recognition, Representative Durkin to close."

"I ask that the Amendment be adopted."

"All those in favor of adopting Floor Amendment #2 will indicate by saying 'aye'; opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. Floor Amendment #2 is adopted. Any further Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"No further Amendments. A State Mandates Note, Fiscal Note, Judicial Note has been requested on Bills as amended by Amendment #2 and have been filed."

"Third Reading. Continuing on the Order of Senate Bill's Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1473."

"Senate Bill 1473, the Bill has been read a second time, previously. Committee Amendment #1 was adopted. Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Black has been approved for consideration."

"Representative Black on Floor Amendment #2."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #2 deletes the reference 116  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 in the underlying Bill to the weights and measures section. I think most of you have been contacted by people expressing some concern about this due to a recent court decision in Lake County. So, Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1473 removes all reference to weights and measures in the Bill. I'd urge your favorable consideration of Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1473."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Bill, if you could refresh my memory, the purpose for the Amendment #2, is that the request of the Farm Bureau or whose request was that language?"

"Representative Black."

"I believe it come from the Midwest Truckers. I don't know that the Farm Bureau is in support of Amendment #2. I don't think I've heard from them. I know the trucking industry, the Public Transportation Authority...I've talked to so many people in the last 24 hours about this. I can't keep it all straight but, I don't think the Farm Bureau was one of them."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. If you could bear with me a moment, Representative Black. I trying to get the Bill and see exactly what's being deleted and while I'm doing that, Sir, if you could just tell me, what groups are in support and if you know of any opposition to the Amendment."

"Representative Black."

"I'm not aware of any opposition to the Amendment, as such. I do know that the Department of Agriculture feels that while we may take this out of 1473, we will need to 117  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 address some concerns about how our portable scales work in the State of Illinois and I certainly share their concern on that and I'm willing to work with them on that particular issue. However, I'm afraid that the weights and measures, if we don't take it out of Senate Bill 1473, which is a very important Bill to many of us, that weights and measures section may preclude the Bill from passing. So, that's why I'm willing to take it out."

"Representative Granberg."

"And the weights and measures language would give the authority on those types of operations to the Director of Transportation or is that the Director of Agriculture?"

"Representative Black."

"I believe that language would have given the certification on these scales to the Department of Agriculture and their concern is, according to the...I may be wrong here, bear with me, the case in Lake County had to do with the accuracy of portable scales and the Department of Agriculture and the Appellate Court upheld that decision. The Illinois Supreme Court refused to review it and the Department of Agriculture feels that they do not have the resources to go out and do the kinds of laboratory calibration and testing of portable scales at the present time. So, rather than codify something the court has already said they don't agree with, we'll just take it out of the Bill and we'll try to address their concerns.later."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Representative Black. I looked at the language and if you indicate that this will be worked on later, 'cause I don't think any of us want to jeopardize the passage of this Bill, so I appreciate the Representative's comments and I have no 118  126th Legislative Day Speaker STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE further questions."

"Any further May 7, 1996 discussion? Seeing none, Representative Black to close."

"Urge a favorable consideration of the Amendment."

"Representative Black has moved for the adoption of Floor Amendment #2. All those in favor say 'aye'; all those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and Floor Amendment #2 is adopted. Any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments. A Fiscal Note has been requested on the Bill and has been filed."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1604." Clerk McLennand: second "Senate Bill 1604, the Bill has been read a time, previously. Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Cowlishaw, has been approved for consideration."

"Representative Cowlishaw."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Floor Amendment #1, to Senate Bill 1604 is a purely technical Amendment. There was a concern of the part of the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police that the language was not clear enough after the Committee Amendment, which removed one of the sentences which begins on page 24...line 24 and runs through line 26 on page two. All this Amendment does is restore that sentence to this Bill and therefore, the Illinois Association of the Chiefs of Police will be much more satisfied with the language. They are in full support of this Bill. It has no opposition. This is only a technical Amendment. I move for its adoption."

Speaker Wojcik: "Is there any discussion? Seeing none, 119  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 Representative Cowlishaw to close."

"I move for the adoption of Floor Amendment #1, to Senate Bill 1604."

"Representative Scott, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Thank you, Speaker. I have an inquiry of the Clerk. There was a Fiscal Note request, I believe, on this Amendment and we're questioning whether or not that had been in a Correctional Note, requesting whether or not those had been filed on the Amendment."

"Mr. Clerk."

"A State Mandates Note has been requested on the Bill as amended by Amendment #1, and it has filed."

"Representative Scott, we haven't adopted the Amendment yet, much less moved it to Third Reading. Is there any discussion on the Amendment? Representative Cowlishaw did close. All those in favor of Floor Amendment #1, will signify by saying 'aye'; all those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and Floor Amendment #1 is adopted."

"No further Amendments. A State Mandates Note has been requested on the Bill as amended and has been filed."

"Third Reading. Representative Hartke, for what purpose do you rise?"

"I just wanted to compliment you on your hearing when you asked for the 'ayes' and 'noes'. I didn't hear anybody say anything."

"You don't have that fine hearing aid that I have up here. Messages from the Senate, Mr. Clerk."

"Message from the Senate by Jim Harry, Secretary of the Senate. 'Mr. Speaker, I'm directed to inform the 120  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 House of Representatives that the Senate has concurred with the House of Representatives in the passage of the following Bills together with their Amendments. House Bill 3227 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 3233 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 3414 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 3448 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 3578 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 3601 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 3613 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Joint Resolution #85 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 347 together with Senate Amendments #1, 2, 4, and 5. House Bill 379 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 427 together with Senate Amendments #1 and 2. House Bill 907 together with Senate Amendments #1 and 2. House Bill 1286 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 2347 together with Senate Amendments #1 and 2. House Bill 2421 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 2557 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 2735 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill 3052 together with Senate Amendment #1 and House Bill 3157 to Senate Amendment #1. The adoption of which I'm instructed, ask concurrence of the House. Passed the Senate as amended on May 7, 1996. These Bills are referred to Rules Committee.' Introduction of Resolutions. House Resolution #105, offered by Representative O'Connor. House Resolution #106, offered by Representative Feigenholtz. House Resolution #107, offered by Representative Hoffman. Refer to the Rules Committee."

"Continuing on the Order of Senate Bill...on the reading of Senate Bill's Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1279." 121  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"Senate Bill 1279, the Bill has been read a second time, previously. Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Brady has been approved for consideration."

"Representative Brady on Floor Amendment #1."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Floor Amendment #1 is an agreement between the Independent Insurance Agents and the trial Lawyers of Illinois. There was some clarification on intent. We decided that rather than using legislative intent, we would draft an Amendment. This is an agreed Amendment and I ask for your favorable support."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg is recognized."

"Thank you, will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, I heard part of your explanation for the Amendment. If this is correct, it reduces the amount of insurance required by asbestos contractors from $1 million to $5 million. Is that accurate?"

"Representative Brady."

"Representative, I think you're speaking of an Amendment that was filed today. This is an Amendment that was filed last week. This simply clarifies legislative intent accordance with what the committees wishes were. That is an Amendment which has not been placed out of rules, I believe."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Representative. In fact, I understand now that this Amendment had been agreed to by the Bar Association and others that you had worked with them and the various groups to reach this consensus on Amendment #1." 122  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Representative Brady."

"Yes, we have, Representative."

"Representative Granberg." May 7, 1996

"Thank you. And it's also my understanding all the groups including the trial lawyers, have agreed to this language. If that is the case, and I think you're indicated that is, then I appreciate the Sponsor's time and I have no further questions."

"With no one seeking recognition, Representative Brady to close."

"Madam Speaker, I ask for this Body's favorable consideration. Thank you."

"Representative Brady has moved for the adoption of Floor Amendment #1. All in favor signify by saying 'aye'; all those opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have and Floor Amendment #1 is adopted. Any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments have been approved for consideration. A Fiscal Note and State Mandates Note have been requested on the Bill as amended by Amendment #1 and have been filed."

"Third Reading. Representative Lang, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, I rise for an announcement. You know, Representative Jay Hoffman and Representative Mary Flowers are very lucky today because they are sitting either side of a birthday boy. So, I'd like to wish my room mate and one of the great pig farmers in the State of Illinois, Chuck Hartke, a happy birthday. I would like to add that...I like to add that I've played golf with Chuck Hartke recently and after playing with him, I wasn't sure he'd live through today. And so, there is no cake. There 123  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 may be cake tomorrow but, Chuck does promise a pig in every pot so any of you that would like a pig at home, come and see Chuck, I'm sure he'll be glad to share with you. Happy birthday, Chuck."

"Happy birthday, Chuck. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1342."

"Senate Bill 1342, the Bill's been read a second time, previously. Committee Amendment #1 was adopted. No Floor Amendments. Fiscal Note and Correctional Budget and Impact Note have been requested on the Bill and have been filed."

"Third Reading. We will now go to the Order of Senate Bills Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1342."

"Senate Bill 1342, a Bill for an Act that amends the use of Intoxicating Compounds Act. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"Representative McAuliffe."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Senate Bill 1342 would raise the penalty for using jimsonweed or for trying to sell it."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart is recognized. Representative Dart."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, did Representative Hoffman help at all with...I see his name up there, with the intoxicating, intoxicating compounds here. Has he been helpful with this Bill?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"Representative Hoffman was a Senate Sponsor and he is 124  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day quite familiar with the jimsonweed, not from a first hand knowledge."

"Representative Dart." May 7, 1996

"Thank you. This intoxicating compounds, the jimson that you're attempting to go after now, have you cut in an exclusion for retail sales of this?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"Yes, House Amendment #1, I believe at the request of the Walgreen Drugstore chain, there is an Amendment to exclude pharmacists if they prescribe it. I understand there was some medicinal purposes and pharmacists asked to be excluded and they have been."

"Representative Dart."

"Now, did you get any help with clarifying this from the...that Frank O'Neal from the State's Attorneys Association?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"If Frank O'Neal were here to speak for himself, he'd be in favor of this Bill."

"Representative Dart."

"No further questions"

"The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black is recognized."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Thank you very much. Representative McAuliffe, how much jimsonweed have you got up there in the City of Chicago?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"I really don't know, but any that we have probably came from Southern Illinois, or Central Illinois."

"Representative Black." 125  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

May 7, 1996 "Goes without question. We used to grow jimsonweed down my way. In fact, there's an old lyric from a Gene Autry song, sing it along with me if you remember it, boys and girls. Where the lowly cattle feed on the lowly jimsonweed, down in Central Illinois by the Hartke Farm. Down there where Lou Lang goes fishing. Now, we've never had any trouble with jimsonweed down my way. The only things dumb enough to eat it was cattle and hogs. You're telling me that people are chewing jimsonweed in Chicago?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"I can't personally say that people are chewing it in Chicago, but Representative Hoffman, Senator, told me that three kids in her district got real sick on it. They had comas...they went into a coma and they almost died. So, she was moved by compassion for these children, these misguided children who will try anything and she asked me to Sponsor this Bill for her in the House and because I wanted to help her, I did."

"Representative Black."

"I'm sorry. Whose Senator was this? Senator..."

"I believe it was Representative Hoffman, Senator."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Representative Black."

"And that Senator was moved to tears. Is that what I heard you to say? I mean, really concerned about this jimsonweed outbreak. I see it on television every night. We've got to do something about this jimsonweed compound. I waxed my car with it two weeks ago and now, I see it's a problem in Chicago. Well, I want to tell you, Madam Speaker, if there's anybody I respect on this Floor, it's Representative McAuliffe and if he's been moved to help out 126  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 some Senator, who was moved. I tell you it's the only Senator that's moved since we went into Session in January, I'll tell you that. And, if I've got a chance to stand up here and help my good friend, Representative McAuliffe stop this dastardly jimsonweed invasion of the City of Chicago and to help one of the Senators, who's at least shown a sign of life since January, then I think we should give this a unanimous vote. But then, if we do that it won't go back to the Senate. But, if it does go back to the Senate, they probably won't act on it. So, for the sake of the women and children, the hogs and the cattle and whatever is going on in the City of Chicago, it's time to put a stop to this jimsonweed. So, I'm gonna stand and support of Representative McAuliffe's great Bill here and try to help out everybody and hopefully, we can get this jimsonweed back where it belongs, down there in rural Illinois."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Will, Representative Wennlund is recognized."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative McAuliffe, is this another Bill for the farmers?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"No, this is a Bill for the children of Madison County."

"Representative Wennlund."

"Representative McAuliffe, I note here that it says, 'Scopolamine'. Isn't Scopolamine truth serum?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"I don't have the slightest idea."

"Representative Wennlund."

"Well, your Bill appears to ban the ingestion of it and 127  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 you don't even know what it is?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"I don't know if it's truth serum."

"Representative Wennlund."

"And what is alkaloids atropine?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"I would further recommend that if it is truth serum, that nobody in here take it."

"Representative McAuliffe, is this your first Bill? Representative Wennlund."

"Well, your Bill also bans the ingestion of alkaloids atropine. Can you tell the House, Members of the House what alkaloids atropine is or are?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"They are anti-chlorogenic drugs."

"Representative Wennlund."

"Thank you, Representative McAuliffe, for clarifying that. Now, do you want to tell the Members of the House what, whatever that was?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"It's a drug to prevent nausea, but it also can cause a coma. We don't want any, so we don't want any of those kids in Southern Illinois or in your district to take this and go into a coma, then."

"Representative Wennlund."

"Thank you, cleared that up. Now, I see it also prevents the ingestion of hyoscyamine. You want to tell the Members of the House what hyoscyamine is?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"As soon as somebody tells me."

"Representative McAuliffe."

"It's used to treat cramps in digestive disorders." 128  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"Representative Wennlund."

"Well, actually, I'm informed that hyoscyamine is what the Lone Ranger says when he rides out of sight. Representative McAuliffe, I've a couple of last questions here. One of which is, it prevents or makes it unlawful, a Class A Misdemeanor, to ingest it. Now, I was under the opinion that it isn't even unlawful to ingest marijuana, but it is to possess it. Isn't that unconstitutional if you make the ingestion of a substance unlawful? Or, is that only if you don't inhale it?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"I'm going to leave that up to the lawyers because it's obvious that some of the lawyers have nothing else to do and maybe they can make some money arguing this in court."

"Representative Wennlund."

"I'm with you on that one. Well, since we all know what this Bill really does and what it prevents people from ingesting, I suppose it's time to vote for...even though I see this jimsonweed in here and it sounds like...it smells like a Farm Bill to me, but we ought to vote for it and get on with this discussion."

"With no one seeking recognition, Representative McAuliffe to close."

"Well, after all the help I had on that, I don't think I have to close. I'll just ask for a favorable vote. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1342 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this 129  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 question there are 112 'ayes'; 0 'nays'; 0 voting 'present', and this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Continuing on the Order of Third Readings, Mr. Clerk, read Senate Bill 1470."

"Senate Bill 1470, a Bill for an Act that amends the Adoption Act. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"Representative Durkin."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is the Bill...the Amendment is the essence of the Bill. What we're doing is removing the State's Attorney officially as a GAL, guardian ad litem. However, we are from the adoption cases, we're not prohibiting a State's Attorney to be appointed in his unofficial capacity as a private attorney to act as a GAL in adoption cases. I think a lot of the questions were already answered, but I'm willing to take anymore questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang is recognized."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, I think I remember this Bill in committee and I just want to remember, is this the Bill that you got advice from Representative John Turner in the men's room when you presented?"

"Representative Durkin."

"Yes."

"Representative Lang."

"And, is this the Bill where we determined that he was 'some' attorney?"

"Representative Durkin."

"Well, I think that's what he was offended by, that he'd be referred to as 'some' attorney, but he is 'a' attorney 130  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day now."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, he may be 'a' attorney attorney to us. Good Bill." May 7, 1996 to you, but he's 'some'

"Any further discussion? Representative Durkin to close." Seeing none,

"Well, this is a reasonable Bill and I ask for a favorable vote."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1470 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 113 'ayes'; 0 'nays'; 0 voting 'present', and this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, on page 10 of the Calendar appears Senate Joint Resolution 71. The Gentleman from Tazewell, Representative Ackerman."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The City of Washington, Illinois, asked for this Resolution to honor their former mayor and fire chief, who is terminally ill. They requested that the portion of the new Washington Bypass, it's within the corporate limits of Washington, Illinois, be designated in his honor. Senator Madigan passed this Bill through the Senate and I'm asking for your 'aye' vote in the House."

"With no one seeking recognition, Representative Ackerman has moved for the adoption of Senate Joint Resolution 71. All those in favor will vote 'aye'; those opposed will vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question 131  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 there are 114 'ayes'; 0 voting 'nay'; 0 voting 'present', and Senate Joint Resolution 71 is hereby adopted. Mr. Clerk, on page 10 of the Calendar, Senate Joint Resolution 88. The Lady from DuPage, Representative Pankau is recognized."

"Thank you, Speaker and Members of the General Assembly. This Resolution establishes a Secretary of State, George Ryan's Graduated Drivers License Task Force. This task force will meet four times between now and the end of the year and it will study a graduated license...a licensing program. Whereby, those that might receive too many tickets would be required to have additional education or some other types of things which might be developed by this task force. Basically comes about because people, drivers that are under 18 years of age, are six times as likely to be involved in a crash as other drivers are. So, would be best to catch them at a early age, change their driving habits before we put them out there on a permanent basis on the road. I ask for your approval of this Senate Joint Resolution."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Kankakee, Representative Novak is recognized."

"Yes, thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative Pankau, now this Senate Joint Resolution just establishes this task force, is that correct?"

"Representative Pankau."

"That's correct."

"Representative Novak."

"So, we are not adopting any type of provisions or any type of suggestions for statutory changes, correct?"

"Representative Pankau." 132  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"That's correct. Any suggestions that come out of this task force would be introduced in January, if there are any."

"Representative Novak."

"Is it the Secretary's wish or any one in his office or any other interested parties in Illinois to increase the minimum drivers age from 16 to a higher...higher age limit? Is there any talk about that going on?"

"Representative Pankau."

"No. That's not included in the scope of this task force. It is a great urban legend, though. I mean, I remember when I was running, you'd go to a high school and they said, 'Was there really a Bill passed last year, that increased the drivers license age?' No, there hasn't been such a Bill and this is not in anyway envisioned to be in this task force."

"Representative Novak."

"Well, good point. I agree. No further questions."

"With no one seeking recognition, Representative Pankau to close."

"I ask for your support."

"Representative Pankau has moved for the adoption of Senate Joint Resolution 88. All those in favor will vote 'aye'; those opposed will vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 110 'ayes'; 1 voting 'present', 1 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present', and Senate Joint Resolution is hereby adopted. Mr. Clerk, on Supplemental Calendar #1, appears House Joint Resolution 102. The Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Leitch."

"Thank you very much, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. 133  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 House Joint Resolution #102 would rename a street in Princeton from I-80 to...out near the Midland Country Club the Bureau Valley Parkway. It's a request of the city council and citizens that live in Princeton and I would ask for your favorable consideration."

"With no one seeking recognition, Representative Leitch has moved for the adoption of House Joint Resolution 102. All those in favor will vote 'aye'; all those opposed will vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 114 voting 'aye'; 0 voting 'nay' and 0 voting 'present', and House Joint Resolution 102 is hereby adopted. Mr. Clerk, Introductions."

"House Resolution #108 offered by Representative Black is referred to the Rules Committee."

"Mr. Clerk, on Supplemental Calendar #1 appears House Resolution 104. The Lady from DuPage, Representative Cowlishaw is recognized."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Representative Krause and I are pleased to present to you, House Resolution 104, which commends the young people, and I might add, I think it notable that there were 450 young people here today, visiting the Capitol between the ages of nine and 18 who are with the Illinois Coalition Against Tobacco. We want to commend them for their interest in public policy and for their interest in deterring the use of tobacco products by young people. I am confident that all of you would like to join with Representative Krause and with me, in commending these young people for their interest in supporting the concept that all young people today need to be encouraged 134  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 to live a life that is free from tobacco, free from that terrible health risk, It is on that basis, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, that I ask your support for House Resolution 104."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Will is recognized. Representative McGuire, purpose of discussion?"

"No, Madam Speaker, I just wanted to rise on point of personal privilege, if I may. I'd like to recognize the appearance today on the House Floor of a former colleague and good friend of mine, former Representative, Tom Walsh."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Logan, Representative Turner is recognized." Turner, J.: "Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will." Turner, J.: "Representative, I can't seem to get the Resolution up on my lap top and I was just wondering if you could tell me what it says?"

"Representative Cowlishaw."

"It welcomes the 450 young people who came here today to visit the Capitol Building, representing the Illinois Coalition Against Tobacco. They are young people between the ages of nine and 18. We commend them for their interest in public policy and for their interest in deterring the use of tobacco among young people."

"With no one seeking recognition, Representative Cowlishaw has moved for the adoption of House Resolution 104. All those in favor will say 'aye'; all those opposed will say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and House Resolution 104, is hereby adopted. Mr. Clerk, returning to the Order of Senate Bills Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1781." 135  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996 126th Legislative Day

"Senate Bill 1781, a Bill for an Act concerning gubernatorial appointments. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"The Gentleman from Grundy, Representative Spangler is recognized."

"Thank you, Madam Chairman and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. What I have before you today is simply a good government Bill. The good Gov...good management Bill having to do with Government. It simply states that the commissions, there's roughly 30 of them, commissions and boards that are appointed by the governor, that they will have their seats filled within 30 days or the people that are currently sitting on those boards and commissions are terminated. They no longer sit on those boards and I'd be happy to answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang is recognized."

"Thank you very much. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, now that you said all that, nobody knows what you said. Could you tell us what this Bill does, Sir?"

"Representative Spangler."

"Yes, it's very simple. When appointments come up and there termination dates are before us, it would require that those successors to those different boards and commissions are appointed within 30 days or the people that are currently sitting on there, no longer hold those positions."

"Representative Lang."

"I don't even know what to ask. I don't understand twice what you've told me. Maybe, you said it's a simple Bill, 136  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 maybe it's just too simple for me. Can you give me an example of how this works? And maybe, you could also tell us what the governor thinks about this Bill."

"Representative Spangler."

"I'll take the first question, first. In the event that someone sitting on a board or commission's term were to expire, within 30 days of that date, the successor to that commission or board would have to be sent to the Senate, confirmed, and then occupy that seat. If not, then that person that was sitting that board, would have to leave the board. They are not considered a member of that board or commission."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, doesn't this give the Senate a veto over these appointments if they don't act within a certain period of time?"

"Representative Spangler."

"Representative, that's an excellent question. As a matter of fact, that was posed to me at an earlier point in time and I went back to the Sponsor of that Bill and I said, 'Is there any chance that we would have a Senate Pocket Veto of some of these conferments?' And they said, 'Absolutely not, that was addressed with the governor and the Governor's Office had no problems with that portion of the Bill.'"

"Representative Lang."

"Well, my analysis indicates that the Commerce Commission, the Secretary of State, the Farm Development Authority, the Prisoner Review Board, and the Capital Review Board are all opposed. Are they still opposed?"

"Representative Spangler."

"I suspect that they are." 137  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day

"Representative Lang." May 7, 1996

"Well, if all of those folks are opposed, I think we ought to be opposed as well, Sir. This sounds like more of a power grab to me, which has been going on here for a year and a half. I know it's late in the day. A lot of us want to get out of here, but I can't be for this and, Madam Speaker, I would ask act to shake this off of Short Debate. I'm joined by thousands of my colleagues who believe that this should come off of Short Debate. But, I don't know what else to ask, Mr. Spangler, but I do believe we should not be voting for this."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino is recognized."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Currently, without this change in the law, is there any requirement on the amount of time that the governor has to make these appointments?"

"Representative Spangler."

"No, there is not. As long as the successor has not been appointed, the individual would remain seated on that commission or board."

"Representative Mautino."

"Would that be the same for the appointees, for example, the Governor's Office appoints public councils and also at the county level?"

"Representative Spangler."

"Yes, if it's listed on your analysis as one of the 30, then it would indeed apply."

"Representative Mautino."

"Now, if...if this change went into effect, would we be requiring the governor to go ahead and make those within 30 138  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 days? Is that what you're trying to do?"

"Representative Spangler."

"That's precisely right. One of the things that I found, and I think many others have, is we wish that Government would run more like some of our industry and competitive businesses. Therefore, when vacancies arise, those vacancies should be filled in a timely fashion SO that business can keep going as it had in the past."

"Representative Mautino."

"What if the governor decides not to make that appointment in 30 days? The reason I ask basically, is Putnam County has had a dead public council for years and the governor has not reappointed, though we continually ask. Will this make him make the appointments?"

"Representative Spangler."

"Indeed, if it's one of the commission and boards that this legislation addresses, he certainly would have to make those appointments or it would have to be determined to be a defunct commission or board and no further people would be appointed."

"Representative Mautino."

"So, this Bill then, just says if he's...it doesn't force him to make any appointments. I guess my point is, we've been trying so long to get a public council in the smallest county in the State of Illinois and the Governor's office hasn't filled the position where the man is clearly dead. I mean, this is...So, I think we do need to make some changes. So, what happens in this situation under your Bill if he doesn't appoint?"

"Representative Spangler."

"Talking about effective dates and retroactive measures on this, I don't believe that I could answer your question 139  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 at this time; however, I'm certain that some research could be done with regards to your particular issue."

"Representative Mautino."

"The answer is, he stays appointed as he is now and as has happened the past few years. We can't get the governor really to do anything. So, your Bill really does not correct that problem. I think you may want to require the governor to get these positions filled because it does cost the people a lot of money when he doesn't go ahead and fill these positions."

"Representative Spangler."

"Was that a question?"

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Scott is recognized."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"So, if you've got a case where there's a board that's in the middle of a hearing, say it's a rate case in front of the ICC which sometimes takes months, you're Bill would then make a commissioner whose term expired during the pendency of the rate case, simply go off of the board if the governor chose not to appoint someone else, thus, leaving a vacancy. Don't you think that has...that may jeopardize particular hearings before not only the ICC, but before other boards and commissions as well?"

"Representative Spangler."

"Yeah, that's an interesting observation, Representative Scott. That's precisely one of the reasons that we want to have this Bill pass, so that, that would not be delayed and, in fact, every one would realize that the appointment has to be made for the continuity and the smooth flow of that hearing or any other hearing like 140  126th Legislative Day that."

"Representative Scott." STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 7, 1996

"But, that's just it, Representative Spangler, the appointment never has to be made as Representative Mautino already said. So now, where you've got the situation where you know the person serves until his successor is appointed and confirmed. You don't have that in this particular case. So, if a particular commissioner were a thorn in the side to one of the parties in a particular case, say a rate case or any other matter, just let his term expire, or her term expire, you don't have to replace that person. And now that, that particular thorn in the side is gone. I could see using this as a tool to influence cases that are in front of boards and commissions. It doesn't make sense to me why we would be making this change, and what's the rationale for some of the boards and commissions but not all of them, being included in this legislation.?"

"Representative Spangler."

"I believe most all of the commissions and boards where appointments are made, were looked at and taken into consideration and put in this legislation. With regards to your previous question, it would be necessary in many instances, rather than having a 'lame duck' or someone who really does not have the authority to be on a board or commission as a result of not being confirmed by the Senate, still remain on that board. I suspect that in your legal forays you've determined or had certain cases where if an individual, in fact, is sitting there unauthorized simply because they have not been a successor named but the question of the legality of whether that person can legally serve on that board or commission is in question."

"Representative Scott." 141  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996

"Well, not at all. In fact, it's exactly the opposite of that because the law here, just as it is in most ordinances and municipalities and other units of local government is that the person is still legally part of the board until a successor is named and appoint...and confirmed. Not only appointed, but confirmed. So, there isn't any question of the legality of the prior member serving but now, you're opening up a situation where you're going to have members be taken off the board potentially right in the middle of cases that are being heard. I think you've opened up a whole box of significant problems that doesn't exist in the law right now. There isn't any question that the people are legally there. If the governor has an interest in replacing a member in a timely fashion, replace them. Get it to the Senate for confirmation and take care of it that way. Here, you're opening up a situation where you could have nobody on the board. Not just a member who served past his time, but nobody on the board in that position."

"Representative Spangler."

"When you look at this closely, what is says is, 'if someone needs to be appointed or confirmed, they indeed should be.' And, many of the boards and commissions, certainly the ones that I've had contact with, they have the ability to adjust and set their agenda so as that there wouldn't be any problem such as you potentially alluded to. So indeed, I would just have to say that I, in fact, feel that this is a good government management Bill and there is no other reason for the Bill with the exception of what I've just stated."

"Representative Scott."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. To the Bill. Respectfully, I disagree with that last statement. I don't think this is a 142  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day May 7, 1996 good government Bill. I think what this is, is an ability on the part of the governor and/or the Senate to be able to totally manipulate the boards and commissions that we have right now, by letting positions go unfilled and potentially, those positions that aren't favorable to certain interests in front of the boards and commissions. I think this is exactly the opposite of a good government Bill. You don't make any exceptions for hearings that are in place. You have the potential to cause jeopardy to the hearings that are there. I would ask for a 'no' vote and Madam Chairman, should this receive the requisite number of votes, I'd ask for a verification."

"Is there any further discussion? Seeing none, Representative Spangler to close."

"Thank you, Madam Chairman. I certainly respect the opinions of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. But, I think if you would look closely at this Bill and try not to read anything in between the lines, it simply states that, 'if in fact, the term of a commissioner or board member were to terminate, that, that successor should be named within 30 days.' I would appreciate the support of all of my colleagues. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1781 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Mr. Clerk, take the record. On the question there are 61 'ayes'; 52 'nays', 1 voting 'present', and this Bill, having received...and this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Motions, Mr. Clerk."

"A Motion has been offered by Representative Woolard to Reconsider the vote by which Senate Bill 1781 143  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 126th Legislative Day has passed." May 7, 1996

"The Gentleman from Macon, Representative Noland, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Speaker, I move to Table the Motion to reconsider."

"You've heard the Motion. All in favor signify by saying 'aye'; all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the Motion is Tabled. Representative Churchill now moves that the House stand adjourned until Wednesday, May 3rd (sic-8th), 1996, at the hour of 11:00 a.m. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the House now stands adjourned until Wednesday, May 3rd, 1996...May 8th, 1996, at the hour of 11:00 a.m. 144  REPORT: TIFLDAY PAGE: 001 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX MAY 07, 1996 97/04/03 15:04:10 HB-1385 THIRD READING PAGE 14 SB-0600 SECOND READING PAGE 63 SB-0600 THIRD READING PAGE 71 SB-0681 THIRD READING PAGE 2 SB-1279 SECOND READING PAGE 121 SB-1319 SECOND READING PAGE 113 SB-1327 RECALLED PAGE 7 SB-1342 SECOND READING PAGE 124 SB-1342 THIRD READING PAGE 124 SB-1381 THIRD READING PAGE 7 SB-1407 THIRD READING PAGE 17 SB-1414 SECOND READING PAGE 63 SB-1414 THIRD READING PAGE 76 SB-1418 SECOND READING PAGE 63 SB-1418 THIRD READING PAGE 79 SB-1420 THIRD READING PAGE 29 SB-1470 SECOND READING PAGE 114 SB-1470 THIRD READING PAGE 130 SB-1472 THIRD READING PAGE 32 SB-1473 SECOND READING PAGE 116 SB-1513 SECOND READING PAGE 63 SB-1513 THIRD READING PAGE 86 SB-1518 SECOND READING PAGE 64 SB-1518 THIRD READING PAGE 92 SB-1543 THIRD READING PAGE 38 SB-1550 SECOND READING PAGE 64 SB-1550 THIRD READING PAGE 98 SB-1604 SECOND READING PAGE 119 SB-1673 THIRD READING PAGE 57 SB-1719 THIRD READING PAGE 64 SB-1769 RECALLED PAGE 59 SB-1780 SECOND READING PAGE 113 SB-1781 THIRD READING PAGE 135 SB-1781 MOTION FILED PAGE 143 SB-1853 THIRD READING PAGE 59 HR-0104 ADOPTED PAGE 134 HR-0104 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 134 HR-0105 FILED PAGE 121 HR-0106 FILED PAGE 121 HR-0107 FILED PAGE 121 HJR-0102 ADOPTED PAGE 134 HJR-0102 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 133 SJR-0071 ADOPTED PAGE 131 SJR-0071 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 131 SJR-0088 ADOPTED PAGE 133 SJR-0088 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 132 SUBJECT MATTER HOUSE TO ORDER PAGE 1 SPEAKER DANIELS IN THE CHAIR PAGE 1 PRAYER REVEREND HOLLER PAGE 1 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE REPRESENTATIVE SMITH PAGE 1 ROLL CALL FOR ATTENDANCE PAGE 1 REPRESENTATIVE RYDER IN THE CHAIR PAGE 18 SPEAKER WOJCIK IN THE CHAIR PAGE 96 SUPPLEMENTAL CALENDAR #1 PAGE 112 HOUSE ADJOURNED PAGE 144 REPRESENTATIVE CHURCHILL IN THE CHAIR PAGE 36 GUESTS-7TH&8TH GRADE FROM NETTLE CREEK SCHOOL PAGE 56 REPRESENTATIVE RYDER IN THE CHAIR PAGE 58 MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE JIM HARRY PAGE 120