Illinois House Floor Debate — May 14, 1996

"The hour of 10:30 having arrived, the House Perfunctory Session will be in order. We will be led in prayer by the Clerk. Dear Lord, bless this House of Representatives and all who serve and work here on behalf of the people of the great State of Illinois. We will now be led in the Pledge of Allegiance by Terry Combs."

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Committee notice. Rules Committee will meet on Tuesday, May 14th at 11:45 a.m. in the Speaker's Conference Room. Rules Committee will meet at 11:45 in the Speaker's Conference Room. The House Perfunctory Session stands adjourned and the House will reconvene in full Session at 12:00 p.m. Attention! Rules Committee will meet immediately in the Speaker's Conference Room. Correction. In the Majority Leader's Office. Rules Committee will meet immediately in the Majority Leader's Office."

"The House will come to order. The Members will please be in their chairs. Those not entitled to the floor will please retire to the gallery. The Chaplain for the day is Pastor Roger Grimmett of the Morningstar United Methodist Church in Normal, Illinois. Pastor Grimmett is the guest of Representative Bill Brady. Guests in the gallery may wish to rise for the invocation. Pastor Grimmett."

"Thank you. Let us pray. Gracious and loving God, we are reminded this day of Your goodness. We take note of Your faithfulness. As the writer of the Book of Lamentations echoes, great is Thy faithfulness, O'God, our Father. Morning by morning, new mercies we see. All we 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 have needed, Thy hand hath provided. Great is Thy faithfulness, Lord unto Thee. We thank You for extending Your hand of mercy, guidance and direction to our elected leaders of this great state. We ask today that You would guide them into making informed decisions that reflect our Judeo-Christian heritage. Grant unto them grace as they serve the peoples of this land. Help them to keep in mind and heart the servant nature of their position and may they, like the Psalmists, heed the words, 'Thy word is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path'. In Jesus name we pray. Amen."

"Thank you, Pastor Grimmett. We'll be led in the Pledge of Allegiance by Representative Bill Brady." Brady, et al.: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Representative Currie is recognized from the Democratic side of the aisle for any excused absences."

"Thank you, Speaker. Please let the record show that Representative Martinez is excused today."

"The record will so reflect. Representative Cross, do you have something to announce?"

"I think Representative Hassert wanted to do that."

"All right. Well, do you have any excused absences on the Republican side of the aisle?"

"No, Mr. Speaker, we're all here today. Thank you for asking."

"Okay. Representative Hassert, did you have something that you would like to share with the chambers? Ladies and Gentlemen, this is an extremely important 2  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day announcement."

May 14, 1996 "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In respect to my colleague that just sat down here, he had a very important event happen on Friday. We think he participated in the process to make this event happen. We're not sure yet. Representative Cross had a baby boy on Friday, him and his wife Jeanie. A healthy baby boy. Mr. Speaker, I suggested that he name him Lee Daniels Cross, but he did...chose name him Thomas Hudson Cross, IV. So, congratulations, Tom." "Congratulations. to

Thomas Hudson Cross, IV. Mother and baby are doing well? Representative Hassert."

"Yes, they're doing fine. My understanding...this is how serious Tom takes his business. Friday morning Tom called me he sounded like he was at an unusual spot and he asked me about House Bill 270 to make sure it was going to get called today. And later on, about three hours later, he called me and told me he had a birth of a baby boy. So he's in the delivery room...in the room...labor room calling me about legislation, so, either that or he is in his office and his legislative aide was in the delivery room. I'm not exactly sure."

"Congratulations. Mr. Clerk, take the record. There are 116 Members answering the roll and a quorum is present and the House will now come to order. Committee Reports."

"Committee Report from Representative Churchill, Chairman from the Committee on Rules to which the following Joint Action Motions were referred, action taken on May 14th, 1996, reported the same back 'do approve for consideration'. To the House floor Floor Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1456, Floor Amendment #231 to Senate Bill 1527, 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 Floor Amendment #3 to Senate Bill 1669, and Floor Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1769. To the Order of Second Reading; Senate Bill 18. To the Order of Concurrence; House Bills 2406, House Bill 2621, House Bill 2735, House Bill 2799, House Bill 3451, House Bill 2532, and House Bill 3617. Motions to Concur have been approved for consideration on Senate Amendments #1 to House Bill 379, Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3165, and Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3510, Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1286, Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3233, and Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3578."

"Supplemental Calendar announcement."

"Supplemental Calendar #1 is being distributed."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm pleased to announce that we have with us today from the Ashland eighth grade in Ashland, Illinois, the Class A state volleyball champions, coached by Debbie 'Reznicek'. Their record is 26-0. They're represented by Representative Raymond Poe and they're with us today. Will you please recognize the Class A state volleyball champions from Ashland eighth grade. Announcement, Mr. Clerk."

"A correction on the Calendar. Page 3 of the Calendar, Senate Bill 363 is listed on the Order of Second Reading. On May 9th it was moved to the Order of Third Reading. So, Senate Bill 363 should be on the Order of Third Reading."

"On the Order of Concurrences on page 7 of the Calendar, Mr. Clerk, appears House Bill 379. Representative Wait."

"Thank you...thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to concur in House Bill 379. Basically, all they did in the Senate was to put on the same Amendment that we put on Senate Bill 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 1448 just last week. And what that does, basically, it says that an out-of-state dealer at a trade show for boat trailers and RV vehicles, basically, still have to participate with two instate Illinois licensed dealers. But anyone in the State of Illinois does not have to have another dealer in able to have his show. Be happy to answer any questions."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Representative Wait, you said this reflected the Amendment that was put on a different House Bill earlier in the Session. Was that the initiative of the auto dealers or whose initiative is this Amendment?"

"Representative Wait."

"Basically, I understand that's the initiative of the boat dealers, outboard marine."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. So, this is an initiative of the Outboard Marine Dealers Association?"

"Representative Wait."

"Yes, that is correct."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. Is there any...is there any revenue offset with this legislation, Representative, or is it purely technical in nature?"

"Representative Wait."

"It's revenue neutral and it's purely technical in nature, you're right."

"Representative Granberg."

"Representative Wait, on Amendment #1 it indicates that it is technical, but it sets the requirement at two 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 licensed Illinois dealers. Why is the requirement set at two?"

"Representative Wait."

"Well, this is just to provide fair competition. This is where an out-of-state dealer comes into the state and wishes to show his wares and we feel that for him to have that right we should have two in state dealers to join him. Otherwise, I think we're afraid of some of...our business would be actually gone, lost, out-of-state. So, this just says if you're an out of state dealer you have to participate with two instate dealers."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. And the...since this is final action, Representative, the underlying Bill, I believe, deals with allowing these dealers to sell their products on weekends or Sundays. And I'm just trying to address my friend Representative Black's concern, because I thought he was...he had some questions about the necessity of allowing those people to do that. Is that in response to other states or is that just trying to open the market up for these specific dealers or what is the rationale behind the underlying Bill?"

"Representative Wait."

"Well, this is just to clarify. There's been some misunderstanding whether RV and boat dealers could sell on Sunday and this is just to clarify, yes, they definitely can sell on Sunday. It does not effect, like I say, the truck or the auto dealers, they still would be closed on Sunday."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. I just wanted to make sure Representative Black was not voting the wrong way, Representative Wait. 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day We want to make sure to take care of him. had indicated they could vote...or May 14, 1996 But they already they could sell these...sell these items on Sunday the way it was. You're clarifying the law and that would actually codify the policy of allowing them to engage in that type of business on weekends. Is that correct?"

"Representative Wait."

"Yes, that is correct."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Representative Wait. No further questions. I'll yield the balance...well, we can't do that under your rules, but I wish...If Representative Black has any questions I'll be more than happy to listen to him."

"Representative Wait now moves that the House concur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 379. This is final action and all those in favor vote 'aye', all opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 113 'ayes', 0 voting 'no' and 0 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed and the House does concur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 379. House Bill 1286. Representative Wirsing."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move to concur with Senate Amendment #1 on House Bill 1286."

"Any discussion? Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"Excuse me. Excuse me. Representative Wirsing, could you explain the Amendment before we open up the line of questioning? Representative Wirsing." 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

May 14, 1996 "Yes, Mr. Speaker, I'm sorry. Amendment #1, as this Bill left the House it was a transferring...called for a transfer of properties from the State Uni...Community College down in the East St. Louis area to make it a bonafide community college. The error in the legislation was it called for CMS to make the transfer of properties. In fact, they can't do that cause they don't own it. This Amendment clarifies that and puts it in the correct order that the board of trustees of the community college district...or the Illinois Board of Trustees...Community College Trustees has that authority to do that and that's what this Amendment does."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Rep... It's my understanding that this was Senator Clayborn's initiative in the Senate, that he put this Amendment on. That was in...as a result of conferences with you pursuant to your discussions, so I have no further questions."

"Representative Wirsing now moves that the House concur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1286. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; opposed by voting 'no'. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 115 'ayes', 0 voting 'no', 0 voting 'present'. The House does concur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1286; and this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3165, Representative Hastert.”

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. I move to concur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3165. Basically, this Amendment basically protects certain 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 patients' records by deleting patients' names and information regarding the patient and their privacy. I'll be happy to answer questions."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"The underlying Bill, Representative, also, that gives Director Ortciger the right to subpoena everybody in the state. Is that correct?"

"Representative Hastert."

"Yes, it does."

"Representative Granberg."

"Well, I think it's a great place to allow that discretion in Represen...Director Ortciger's hands. We certainly have a great deal of faith in him and this Amendment was worked out with the department and they want to keep those records...some records confidential. So, I have no further questions and hopefully Director Ortciger will use these subpoena powers wisely."

"Representative Hastert moves that the House concur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3165. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye'; opposed by voting 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. There are 116 'aye', 0 voting 'no', 0 voting 'present', and the House does concur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3165. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3233, Representative Cross. Representative Cross. He must be with his new baby. I will pass that one. House Bill 3510, Representative O'Connor." 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day O'Connor: May 14, 1996 concurrence "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would move for of Senate Amendment #1 on House Bill 3510. The Senate Amendment to House Bill 3510 provides that if a defendant who has been sentenced and returns to the United States, that defendant shall be brought before the original judge who sentenced the defendant. The court then, can then resentence the defendant of any sentence which was available at the time of his original sentence. In addition, the defendant is no longer eligible to receive good-time credit under the new sentence." Speaker Daniels: you, Sir.

"Thank you.

"Representative Granberg. Oh. Oh. We liked Representative Dart." I've...Will the Sponsor yield?" "Indicates he will." "Representative, then the Senate Amendment to this Bill merely changes that if the defendant's found coming back into the country, he or she will then be sent back to the jurisdiction that the defendant was convicted in. Is that correct?"

"Representative O'Connor." "Yes, Representative."

"Representative Dart."

"Is there any formal process set up for the extradition of the prisoner?"

"Representative O'Connor."

"Well, he'd have to violate his Deportation Act, come back into the country and be rearrested, basically."

"Representative Dart."

"Is there anything in this Amendment that would tighten up this Bill so that we are not sending off murderers and rapists to countries that will not penalize these people?"

"Representative O'Connor." 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

"This Amendment does not address that, no."

"Representative Dart." May 14, 1996

"So, then this Bill would go to the Governor's Office if we vote for this. The...this Bill, as it exists now, Representative...We've debated this one before. I have some serious problems with this Bill. I understand what you're attempting to do here, but I just...I see there's a fatal flaw in this plan, given the fact that what we're doing is we're taking people who have committed crimes, murder or rape, against people of the State of Illinois, our citizens, the people we're suppose to represent, have murdered one of their children, have murdered one of their relatives and then we're going to deport that person to a country which may or may not penalize this person. There is no guarantee whatsoever in this Bill that that person will serve one day in prison. And as I've said before, and I know your background as well dictates it too. You've dealt with people like this. They want retribution. They don't want to know that the person that murdered their child, that murdered their family member, is being sent to another country where they may or may not serve a day. They want that person rotting away in a prison. Although, recently we've had a lot of doubt and question about what's been going on in our prison system, as far as whether or not they're sitting there making porno movies or whatever it is, the reality of it is we have a better chance in this state of this person serving their time. Is there anything in this Bill that we can hang our hat on? I know there's some provision about deprecating the seriousness of the offense. Is there anything other than that language that we could ensure that this person serves time once they get sent back to another country?" 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

"Representative O'Connor." May 14, 1996 "The stopgaps are in the Bill, Representative, relative to the severeness of the crime. There are numerous stopgaps throughout the Bill to make sure the person would receive his more severe sentence in this country if the courts SO deemed it necessary. We're only dealing here with those that are already proving to be illegal aliens."

"Representative Dart."

"Well, for someone who commits the offense of second degree murder, what's the stopgap to prevent that person going to another country and being released?"

"Representative O'Connor."

"The deportation of the defendant would not deprecate the seriousness of the defendant's conduct and would not be inconsistent with the ends of justice."

"Representative Dart."

"But, now, Representative, I guess this begs a question. There's...there's nothing in this Bill that would put any provisions in place were this person sent off to a Third World country, one of the many volatile ones that change governments once a day that that might be a country which would put this person behind bars. He's sent there and a week later the government's overthrown, they release all the prisoners. There's nothing in this Bill that would deal with that, would it?"

"Representative O'Connor."

"Representative, if the courts deemed his punishment would be more severe by him spending time in our jails in the State of Illinois, he would be sentenced here. If they perceived it to be better for a deportation procedure to be begin, they would then and only then begin the deportation procedures." 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 130th Legislative Day

"Representative Dart."

"Mr. Speaker, to the Bill. I...I've mentioned before I have some major problems with this Bill. I'm all for getting the illegals who are committing problems in our state off our dole and send them back somewhere. This is not the way to do it. We're talking about very serious felonies; kidnapping, aggravated stalking, child pornography, second degree murder, solicitation of a juvenile prostitute, juvenile pimping. Those are very serious offenses. There are no, no safeguards whatsoever in this Bill, though the Sponsor would say otherwise, that would make sure this person serves one day in these other countries. There's none. These are too serious to be taking murderers and rapists who have hurt the people of our state, send them to a country where they very well may never serve a day. For that reason I oppose this Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Further discussion? Being none, Representative O'Connor to close."

"I would ask for a favorable vote on Senate Amendment #1 on House Bill 3510. Thank you."

"Representative O'Connor moves that the House concur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3510. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye'; opposed by voting 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 92 'ayes'...91 'ayes', 17 'noes' and 3 voting 'present'. This...the House does concur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3510; and this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3578. Representative Doody." 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move to concur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3578. The Amendment basically deletes language from the original definition of aggravated intimidation. So, the reference to where the defendant's actions were motivated by membership in a gang have been deleted and that now the core of the Bill, which I concur with, is that where the streetgang member's activities are in furtherance of the activity of his streetgang."

"Any discussion? Representative Dart."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, is this Amendment then more of a technical Amendment?"

"Representative Doody."

"Yes, Representative. I don't think it significantly amends this Bill at all."

"Representative Dart."

"The way I look at it it's not either. But can you explain to me then, though, why it was necessary, though?"

"Representative Doody. Representative Dart, could you repeat your question? Excuse me. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a lot of visitors today so it's a little noisier than normal. Ladies and Gentlemen, hello. Representative Dart."

"Thank you. I also agree that it's a technical Amendment on this one, but can you explain to me why that language was necessary, though? Does it clear up some vague language or what?"

"Representative Doody."

"No. I concur, Representative, that it is not necessary."

"Representative Dart."

"That was my point that this was...the language is just 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 technical. Can you explain to me what it cleans up, though? I mean, why do we need this language? It doesn't change things a great deal. Why do we need it?"

"Representative Doody."

"Representative, if I understand, you're asking why we need the language they've deleted? We don't."

"Representative Dart."

"Let me rephrase it then. Why do we need to remove the language you're removing?"

"Representative Doody."

"I...to be honest with you, I don't know that it's necessary to remove it. But in my opinion as the Sponsor of the Bill, it does not significantly amend the Bill in any way whatsoever. So, rather than send it to a Conference Committee, I concurred because I don't..I think the net effect is zero."

"Representative Dart."

"No, I agree with you and no further questions."

"Are you done, Representative Dart? Okay. No further discussion. Representative Doody now moves that the House concur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3578. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; opposed by voting 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 115 'aye', 0 voting 'no' and 0 voting''present'. The House does concur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3578; and this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Black on House Bill 270. Represen... Representative Black on the Order of Conference Committee Reports. Are you ready to go with that, Sir? 15  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 Representative Black, House Bill 270."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. When this Bill left the House it was a very simple Bill. It simply permitted the board of a...the board of trustees of a sanitary district to appoint a chief administrative officer for a maximum four year renewable term and that passed 114 to 0. Unfortunately it's come back to us with several legislative initiatives on it. I'll attempt to run down them and with your permission, Mr. Speaker, would ask the Sponsors of the various other initiatives to answer any questions."

"Okay. Excuse me, Representative Black. Ladies and Gentlemen. Representative Black."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I could just hardly hear myself think. It's just terrible in here and I appreciate your indulgence. The second part of the Conference Committee Report inserts some language that only applies to the Aurora Sanitary District. It states that a board of trustees of 5 members shall be created in any sanitary district which includes more than one municipality with a population of over 90 thousand but less than 500 thousand; except that any sanitary district which lies within four counties, the appointment of the 5 members of that board shall be made without regard to political parties. And that would effect the Aurora Sanitary District only. It would increase their membership from 3 to 5. I believe that's been requested by Representative Cross. In addition, Representative Cross amends the Township Code to allow township clerks to continue to do business with the township regarding...even though...even though that township official may have a business that he or she might be directed in. There are some 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 130th Legislative Day

"You want to answer this, Tom? Okay. How slow do you want me to go? Would it be all right with you if I yield to Representative Cross, who I think can explain it. Because it's really amending a Bill that we passed last year. So, Mr. Speaker, if you could recognize Representative Cross, I believe he could answer the question better than I."

"Representative Cross."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative Hoffman, what...we passed an Ethics Bill last year as you may recall. Can you hear me, Jay? And what it did, it applied to all township officials and the concern for...and as I think Representative Black said, I don't...not aware of any opposition. The concern was that this applied...potentially applied even to non-voting members of contracts. I know in our area we have some township clerks, for instance, that have been doing work with their township. And they're...I know for one...in one instance the guy provides, has a quarry, and provides limestone to the township. Under the Bill, as we passed it last year, he would have to...he could no longer provide any quarry...or any more limestone. He's not a voting member. We excluded...we said non-voting members on the township board can still continue to do work with the township. Certainly voting members, there would be a conflict and we want to continue to prohibit that. I know in other parts of our county there was a guy that provided insurance. So, this is an attempt to allow, in areas where we have limited resources or limited people doing work, to continue to do that but, also, can serve in a capacity where they don't have a voting position."

"Representative Wennlund in the Chair. Further 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 discussion? The Chair recognizes Representative Hoffman."

"Yes, it's my understanding, then, currently all employees are prohibited and last year the township officials were in favor of that prohibition. Is that correct?"

"Representative Cross."

"That was the Bill that passed last year, Representative. In talking with the Senate Sponsor and an individual from our area, our state's attorney, has helped work on this language, changing it and talking with the Senate Sponsor, he thought maybe we went a bit too far last year. Now I don't believe the township officials are opposing this language we have listed here. We tried to work with them last year. The Bill went ahead and passed. But I don't think they're opposed to this language right now."

"Representative Hoffman."

"But it's also my understanding that they're not necessarily in favor of it. As a matter of fact, I don't think that they've taken a position here. I think the reason is, is last year we worked very hard with the township employees...excuse me, with the Township Officials Organization. A lot of the Representatives on your side of the aisle, I think, did yeoman's work in really doing a good job in addressing this situation. Now what we're doing, is one year later you're coming back in and you're throwing it all out the window and you're saying we're going to amend it and potentially get us back into the situation that we don't want to be in, and that would be a situation whereby we don't have a straight line rule where we know about these conflict of interest situations. I don't think...it's not my understanding that the township officials are in favor of this. I don't think that they've 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 taken a position in favor of it. Is that correct?"

"Representative Cross."

"Representative, I'm just checking with some people out here...on our side of the aisle. They're neutral on the Bill. And as I said, I attempted to work with them last year on this particular issue because what's happened now with this language was what we talked about last year, and the Bill was too far along when we found out about it, is that we're now having people having to resign. And in small counties and small townships it's hard to find people to take over the job of clerk, for instance. And I happen to be thinking of a couple of clerks that we've lost because of this language and I'm surprised you haven't heard about it in your area where you reside. But they are neutral. I know they worked hard on it last year and as I said, I tried to get them involved in it last year and they were too long and...to far along in the process. But we still will have the prohibition of people that are voting members on the township board."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Well, I think the concern obviously is...I know that there is several organizations concerned about this, Common Cause being one, and the concern is the appearance of impropriety. I think there's a problem with an employee delivering limestone from his company and then also being an employee and then...and then taking and spreading the limestone. I have a problem with that. I think that there's...the problem seems to be here, is that the township officials last year came to this floor. We worked out an agreement. We did that in good faith, and I think a good agreement. And I think in order to avoid appearances of impropriety we should not be going with this language in 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 this Conference Committee Report. There's some other er good things in this Conference Committee Report I wouldn't mind supporting, but because of this I'm voting 'no'."

"Further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Lady from St. Clair, Representative Younge."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Which Sponsor do you..."

"Representative Black."

"The Gentleman indicates he'll yield. Representative Black."

"Representative, I didn't quite hear what you were saying about not-for-profit entities in reference to, I don't know what subject matter, but what is the intent? What is the situation out of which this 'arised'?"

"Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, please give the Sponsor and Representative Younge your attention. They can barely hear each other and then it just results in repeating. So, please give the Sponsor and Representative Younge your attention. Representative Black, proceed."

"Yes. Representative Younge, it's my understanding, again, not my language. Let me read to you what staff has given me. The only reference to a not-for-profit corporation in this Conference Committee is amending the State Employees Group Insurance Act of 1971. And they want to include in that definition of local government any non-for-profit corporation or association with a membership that consists primarily of municipalities that operates its own utility system and provides research training, dissemination of information or other acts to promote cooperation between and among municipalities that provide utility services and for the advancement of the goals and purposes of that membership. It's my understanding Senator 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 Watson wanted to add this language to...that would allow the participation in the Illinois group insurance pool for members of the Illinois Municipal Utilities Association and the Department of Central Management Services is neutral on that language. As far as I know, that's the only reference to not-for-profits in this Conference Committee."

"Representative Younge."

"So, for the purposes of legislative intent, the only intent of that Amendment is to have the employees of the not-for-profit to get and be in a group insurance plan. Is that correct?"

"Representative Black."

"I can't give you intent because I don't know what the Sponsor of this language was...I would give you my best interpretation is that you are absolutely correct, that it would allow the employees of the Illinois Municipal Utilities Association to access the Illinois State Employees Group Insurance Act. I feel fairly comfortable that's all this has to do with."

"Representative Younge."

"Thank you. The second question has to do with multi-county assessment. How does this Bill affect multi-county assessments?"

"Representative Black."

"Well, as far as I know, there's nothing in this Conference Committee about multi-county assessment. If I'm not seeing something, if you'll point it out because that, quite frankly, would make me very nervous. And I don't think there's anything in here on multi-county assessment. I hope not."

"Representative Younge."

"When I brought the Bill up on the computer, that was an 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 extensive portion of the Bill having to do with the year 2000 or after - several counties getting together and there being a multi-county assessment process. It came up on the computer and I was...I hadn't heard you say anything about it and I was wondering about it."

"Representative Black."

"You may want to check your computer again. I don't...I don't see anything in the...I know it wasn't in the underlying Bill and I don't see anything in the Conference Committee Report that even mentions the word multi-county assessment."

"Representative Younge."

"So, there's nothing...This Bill will not affect or apply to several counties getting together and there being a multi-county assessment change, a procedure or law?"

"Representative Black."

"Representative, to the best of my knowledge there's absolutely nothing in here about multi-county assessments. If you find a page number or reference that it is, I'll take the Bill out of the record because I just...I don't think it's in here. I hope it's not in here. That's certainly not something that I have agreed to and Lord knows, I've agreed to enough stuff in this Bill without that. So, if you find it and you can point that out to me, I'll absolutely take the Bill out of the record because no one has talked to me about that item."

"Representative Younge."

"It comes up on the computer. I don't...I was looking for the specific section and it's there and maybe the Bill should be taken out of the record. This is a serious matter and you wouldn't want to inadvertently pass some law having to do with multi-county assessment and not know it's 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day there."

May 14, 1996 "Further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from McHenry, Representative Skinner. Representative Skinner."

"Could you look at page 42, please? It appears that you're suggesting that park district officials should be not held liable for off-trail bicycling, sledding or tobogganing. Now is this..."

"Representative Skinner is that a question?"

"Not yet. If that is the case, how do you justify this if a park district has a toboggan slide?"

"Representative Black."

"It's my understanding that that language is not part of my original Bill. That was requested by the Cook County Board and I'm always willing to reach out to embrace the ideas of my friends and colleagues on the Cook County Board. We're very close. We're very close."

"Representative Skinner."

"But this would apply to every park district in the State of Illinois, right?"

"Representative Black."

"Yes and I'm very close to some of those other park districts too. But you're right, it would apply to any public entity that operates an off-trail, bicycle, sledding, tobogganing, probably even snowmobile trail would be my guess."

"Representative Skinner."

"Well, it doesn't say snowmobile trail. I'm sure On...back to that'll be in next year's compromise Bill. the group insurance part on page 8. What is the unaccrued liability of allowing a private not-for-profit corporation to be in the State Employees Group Insurance Program?" 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

"Representative Black." May 14, 1996

"Well, since anyone who joins the State Employees Group Insurance Act has to pay the freight, the full freight, there's no cost to the state whatsoever. not opposed to that."

"Representative Skinner."

That's why CMS is Skinner: "Representative, that gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. A revenue neutral proposal. Thank you."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman...the Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Washington, Representative Deering."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, this question might be more directed to the new father over there in your row. Representative Cross. I lost his name there for a second. Representative Cross, you can just nod your head here. Did I hear you say earlier that if there was an elected person on a township board and they had an immediate family member that could supply limestone or aggregates or that was supplying, they could no longer do that under this legislation?"

"The Chair recognizes Representative Cross to answer the question."

"Representative, I was just giving one example of several situations in our county where there happened to be a township clerk who had provided limestone to his particular township. Not a voting member on awarding contracts and he would be, under the last year's Bill, prohibited from continuing to either provide stone or serve as a clerk. All this language does, is says, that if you're a non-voting member then you can continue in the capacity."

"Representative Deering. Ladies and Gentlemen 25  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 of the House, it's a pleasure to recognize the History Fair Class from the Breese/Beckemeyer School. They are the guests of Representative Stephens and Representative Granberg. Further discussion? Further discussion? The Chair recognizes Representative Hannig."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. I first have a question of the Chair. I don't have a copy of the Conference Committee Report on my desk but I assume it's because it's on our computers. Is that correct?"

"Mr. Clerk, is the Bill on the computer?"

"The Conference Committee is on the computer."

"Anything further, Representative Hannig."

"Yeah, just along those lines. When I come to the end of the report, not only can I not find who signed the report and who did not, but it does not even list the names of the House Members that were on the Committee. Is there going to be a way that they can correct this problem or at least let us know who signed and who didn't?"

"If the Clerk will answer the question with respect to what does and what does not appear on the computer."

"A signed copy of the report is on file. It is not available in the conversion of the program."

"Representative Hannig."

"Okay. Could maybe the Clerk just read the Members of the Conference that signed the report? Was it unanimous?"

"Representative... Representative Hannig, the Clerk is having the original pulled out and we'll respond to your question as soon as the Clerk is in possession of the original. Representative Hannig."

"Thank you. Yes, I think Representative Black is going to send it over here and I appreciate that - and I just 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 like to see who's on the Committee and who signed the reports. That's important, I think, to many of the Members of the House and I would hope...I know we're making a transition here, but I would hope that we could try to accommodate that type of information as we go through this process; and to the Bill. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Yes. Repre...Representative Black...Yes. Representative Black, from my analysis it says that Common Cause is opposed to this Bill. Could you, perhaps, enlighten me as to why that is?"

"Representative Black."

"I...I have no idea. They have not talked to me about this at all. The Bill has been on the Calendar for probably seven weeks and quite frankly I tried to give up the Sponsorship of this Bill six weeks ago. But, be that as it may, I've not heard from anyone on Common Cause or from Common Cause. The only reason I would suspect and I can only hazard a guess and it would probably be the township clause. But I don't know. That would be a pure guess."

"Representative Hannig."

"Yeah, looking at the Bill that was somewhat what I thought as well, but I thought maybe you could shed some light as to...if there was some specific problems that they would like to see addressed. So it's my understanding that township law requires...or would allow certain sales to occur that are now prohibited and considered conflicts. Is that correct?"

"Representative Black."

"Representative Cross."

"Representative Cross will answer the 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day question."

May 14, 1996 "Representative, this would just restore certain people into the same status they had prior to last year. And as I've said several times, if you are a non-vot...if you're a non-voting member on a township board and you provide services or materials to the township, you'd be able to continue to do that or start over to be able to do that. This law went into effect January 1 of '96. We found in our area that we were losing people. They were having to cease being in their capacity of either clerk or...I'm thinking of clerk as I can think of two people that had to stop being clerks and it's been tough finding replacements. So, as, I've stressed and I'm trying to stress as I've stressed earlier and I'm saying again, we're not talking about people that make the decisions on the contracts, we're talking about people that are associated with the township but in a non-voting capacity."

"Representative Hannig."

"Just along those lines I have to confess, Representative, that I haven't had anybody complain or have a hardship about those requirements from my point of view. So maybe they are something in the bigger counties, but in the rural areas they...that has not been a problem. And I'm not sure why we should necessarily be changing them in the small areas of the state at least. But let me also ask another question in general. I see the activity listed here as hazardous now to include bicycling. Now I learned to ride at an early age and I've never considered it to be a dangerous thing. It's something that I think everyone does. How come we're now going to consider bicycling as a dangerous, hazardous activity?"

"Representative Black." 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

May 14, 1996 "Representative, I can relate many stories to you about my teenage years about the hazards of bicycling, but I won't unless you want me to and I will get into that later. I think if you look at the Bill carefully it specifically relates to off-trail bicycling. You know, where you're jumping over tree stumps and outrunning rapid white tail deer and all kinds of...I mean, you're out in the woods where God knows what could happen to you. So it would only be off-trail bicycling. I believe that is specifically said in that language, not bicycling in general."

"Representative Hannig. Please bring your remarks to a close, Representative Hannig."

"Yes. Just briefly I see that by the copy of the report there's a bare minimum of six signatures on the report. I have some problems with some of the provisions of this and I would just ask that we vote 'no'."

"There being no further discussion, the Chair recognizes Representative Black to close."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman (sic-Speaker) and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. As in any Conference Committee there are things in here that obviously some of us like and some of us don't like. The underlying Bill is very important to my district, my sanitary district, and I intend to vote 'aye' because of that. There are some other items in the Bill that are controversial. Probably the most controversial is the one I accepted on behalf of the Cook County Board. So I reach out to my friends and colleagues from that great county in the north, that great city in the north, that City of Chicago, the County of Cook. The Cook County Board wanted this provision about off-trail bicycling and all of those hazardous materials. Now is your chance to stand up, stand up and be counted for 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 the City of Chicago and the County of Cook because if any of the delegates, I say again, if any of the delegates to the Democratic National Convention are injured while off-trail bicycling in the City of Chicago in August, it will rest squarely on your shoulders. Ladies and Gentlemen vote 'aye' for the Cook County Board."

"The question is, 'Shall the House adopt Conference Committee Report #1 to House Bill 270?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye'; all those opposed signify by voting 'nay'. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? On this question...Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 85 voting 'yes', 26 'no', 5 'present'; and this Bill, having received the required Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. And the House does adopt Conference Committee Report #1 to House Bill 270. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House the Chair wishes to recognize the physical education students from the 6th, 7th and 8th grades and Miss Joan Jensen Moran, their physical education specialist from the East Columbus School in Rock Falls, Illinois. They are the guests of Representative Mitchell and Representative Brunsvold. The Chair recognizes Representative Brunsvold. For what purpose do you rise, Representative Brunsvold?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to make an announcement to the Members of the Sportsmens Caucus. Our annual membership meeting is in the morning in the Rathskeller. Eight o'clock breakfast - be a very short meeting. Would like to have all the Members of the Sportsmens Caucus attend, please. Won't be very long and have breakfast. Thank you very much."

"The Chair also wishes to recognize the guests 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 of Representative Davis, Mr. Henry Daley, who is the teacher... Harry Daley, the Teacher of the Year Award, the winner of the Teacher of the Year Award from the Brookwood Junior High School in Glenwood, Illinois. With him are guests Kelly Petty, Jonathan Craig, Juanita Thomas, Miguel Harris, all of the Cullen School in Chicago and the Illinois History Fair winners. Please make them welcome. On page 7 of the Calendar on the Order of Concurrence appears House Bill 3233. The Chair recognizes Representative Cross."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a Motion to concur in Senate Amendment #1 with respect to House Bill 3233. As you see, this is the International Terrorism Bill. We made some minor changes...or the Senate made a couple minor changes. I'm still...I'm not aware of any opposition to these changes. I'll be glad to try to answer any questions and I would appreciate an 'aye' vote on the Motion to concur"

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Madison, Representative Hoffman."

"Yes. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Yes, Representative, I'm very proud to be a co-sponsor of this. Could you just explain what the changes were that were made in the Senate?"

"Representative Cross."

"Jay, let me just read to you right out of my analysis. It might be quicker and easier. We changed the definition and we had a definition of international terrorism that you're probably familiar with. To change...we changed the phrase 'appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population' SO that the phrase now reads 'are 31  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population'. They're pretty minor, that change is. But it also deleted, if you look on page 2 of the original Bill starting on line 29 and on line 23, 'is about to engage' on line 29 or 'is about to engage'. That's been deleted. I don't know if that...if you have the Bill in front of you, I think they make sense, but they're pretty minor changes and I think...but I do think it maybe cleans up any...some earlier concerns."

"Representative Hoffman."

"So, essentially, the only changes that were made, really is to clear up any...to avoid any potential for misconstruing the intention of this Act. Is that correct?"

"Representative Cross."

"That's the idea, Representative."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Well, I thought that the Bill was good when it left this chamber. I understand the changes and the concerns of some. I think that we should vote 'aye'. I think this is a very good piece of legislation and I urge this side of the aisle to vote 'aye'."

"Further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in strong support of this Concurrence Motion. The changes made in the Senate should really satisfy everyone. It clarifies what activities are prohibited and removes the possibility that just simply the appearance of doing something could bring rise to a criminal action. And, so, this is the opportunity right here today at this moment for the State of Illinois to make a strong statement on the issue of international terrorism. I read some articles recently which would indicate to me 32  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 that many have used the State of Illinois, particularly the Chicago and Cook County area and some of the western suburbs, as an area to raise money for terrorist purposes. They've been specifically raising money and sending it overseas to be used for criminal acts, violent acts, acts that kill women and children, acts that do not foster peace in the mideast. And this is our opportunity to say, 'No, not in our state, not in the State of Illinois you won't do this.' And if we can pass this today in the State of Illinois, we have an opportunity to send a message to the states all around us and challenge them to pass the same kind of law SO we can push these terrorists farther and farther out of our midst and maybe help eradicate them permanently. So I strongly recommend a 'yes' vote on this Concurrence Motion. We rarely have an opportunity in our state to make a vote that has something to do with world peace. This is your opportunity to vote for world peace. Vote 'yes' on this Motion."

"There being no one else seeking recognition, the Chair recognizes Representative Cross to close."

"Thank yoυ, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the help and efforts of the co-sponsors. They have been extremely helpful, as I say, and productive in this Bill and I appreciate everyone's help and I'd appreciate an 'aye' vote. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall the House concur in Senate Amendment #231 to House Bill 3233?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye'. All those opposed signify by voting 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there 117 voting in favor, 0 voting 'no', 0 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 voting 'present', and the House does concur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3233. On Supplemental Calendar #1 on the Order of Concurrence appears House Bill 2406. Representative Wirsing."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move to nonconcur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 2406. The Senate Amendment #1 simply replaces the title with a title that makes generic reference to the University of Illinois Act."

"Is there any discussion? On this matter the Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Wirsing, why would we not concur in the Senate Amendment? Can you briefly describe the Senate Amendment to us, please?"

"Representative Wirsing."

"As we passed this Bill out of the House over to the Senate, it was a vehicle Bill relative to an issue with University of Illinois at the Chicago campus. It's determined that there needed to be a Conference Committee pulled together in order to negotiate out what the final product is going to be, and so that's the reason for nonconcurring today."

"Representative Granberg."

"Representative Wirsing, would this...if we nonconcur with this Amendment and a Conference Committee is appointed, would the subject of that Conference Committee be the property and the acquisition for the properties located around the University of Illinois Chicago Circle Campus?"

"Representative Wirsing." 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 130th Legislative Day

"Yes, that's correct."

"Representative Granberg."

"So this would be solely used for the purpose of discussing the private ownership and the ownership of the campus for that development of those properties on the south side of UIC?"

"Representative Wirsing."

"Yes, that is correct, also."

"Representative Granberg."

"And, Representative, one last question, Sir. That would be the sole purpose of the Conference Committee Report to your knowledge?"

"Representative Wirsing."

"To the best of my knowledge, yes, that is correct."

"Representative Granberg."

"I thank the Representative because I know these negotiations are taking place. So I appreciate the Representative's honest answers."

"Representative Wirsing now moves that the House nonconcur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 2406. All in favor signify by saying 'aye'; those opposed signify by saying 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it and the Motion carries. The House nonconcurs with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 2406. On page 3 of the Calendar appears Senate Bills Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 67."

"Senate Bill #67. The Bill's been read a second time previously. Committee Amendment #1 was adopted. No Floor...no Floor Amendments. Fiscal Note, State Mandates Note, Home Rule Note have been requested on the Bill, as amended, and have all been filed."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read Senate Bill 35  130th Legislative Day 1260," STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996

"Senate Bill #1260, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Department of Corrections. Second Reading of this House Bill. Committee Amendment #1 was adopted. Floor Amend...no Floor Amendments. Approved for consideration. No note requests."

"Please hold the Bill on Second Reading, Mr. Clerk. Mr. Clerk, please...on page 4 of the Calendar on the Order of Second Reading, Senate Bills, appears Senate Bill 1261. Please read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill #1261, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Department of Natural Resources. Second Reading of this Senate Bill. Committee Amendments #1, 2 and 3 were adopted. No Floor Amendments. Approved for consideration. No Motions."

"Please hold the Bill on the Order of Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, please read Senate Bill 1263 which appears on page 4 of the Calendar."

"Senate Bill #1263, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Department of State Police. Second Reading of this Senate Bill. Committee Amendment #1 was adopted. No Floor Amendments. Approved for consideration. No Motions."

"Hold the Bill on the Order of Second Reading, Mr. Clerk. On page 5 of the Calendar appears Senate Bill 1456. Please read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill #1456. The Bill's been read a second time previously. Committee Amendment #1 was adopted. Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative McAuliffe, is approved for consideration."

"Representative Phelps, for what purpose do you seek recognition? Representative Phelps." 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 130th Legislative Day

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know you're trying to expedite business and I agree that we should. The three last Bills that went by pretty quickly was 1260, '61 and '63."

"Representative Phelps, proceed."

"And as a point of personal privilege I would liked to have called Amendment 2 on 1260 for immediate consideration; #4 on 1261 and #2 on 1263, which takes care of appropriations out of GRF for Tamms Prison and that's what I was wondering, if being on Second Reading, if we would get back to those for immediate consideration, my Amendments I've filed?"

"Representative Phelps, your request is out of order. The Amendments are in Rules and the Bills were held on the Order of Second Reading, so you may have an opportunity again. Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Representative McAuliffe on Floor Amendment #2."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Floor Amendment #2 reestablishes disability benefits for policemen who suffer a heart attack in the line of duty. It corrects...this corrects a change made in legislation enacted early last year. I would move for it's approval. It's been approved by the City of Chicago and by the Chicago Police Pension Board."

"Is there any discussion? On that the Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Roger, it's my understanding and I think you indicated that all parties are in agreement to this...to this Amendment. The groups have met and they are in complete 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day unanimity in regard to this Amendment.

"Representative McAuliffe."

"That's my belief."

"Representative Granberg." May 14, 1996 Is that accurate?"

"Roger, is there anything...is there anything else besides this one provision? Do you have further Amendments?"

"Representative McAuliffe."

"No, this is the only Amendment."

"Representative Granberg."

"Nothing further. Thank you." Speaker one

"There being no further seeking recognition, Representative McAuliffe now moves that the House adopt Floor Amendment #2. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye'; those opposed signify by saying 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments have been approved for consideration. A Pension Impact Note has been requested on the Bill, as amended by #2, and it has been filed."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, on the Order of Senate Bills Third Reading appears Senate 1456. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill #1456, a Bill for an Act that amends the Illinois Pension Code and State Mandates Act. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Zickus, is recognized on the Bill."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Senate Bill 1456 creates the survivor benefit for dependent parents...of natural parents if there is no surviving spouse or children. And it also provides that the Cook 38  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 County Pension Fund allows the chief of the county police department and the undersheriff of the county sheriff's department to receive the same pension benefits that are provided to the deputy sheriffs and the sheriffs in addition to the Amendment that was just adopted, and I urge your 'aye' vote on this."

"Is there any discussion? On that the Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. Will the Lady yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative Zickus, I didn't hear that second part of your explanation in regard to deputy sheriffs. Could you please explain that provision again?"

"Representative Zickus."

"It allows the chief of the county police department and the undersheriff of the county sheriff's department to receive the same pension benefits that are provided to the deputy sheriffs and to the sheriff."

"Representative Granberg."

"And Chairman Stroger and the Cook County Board have agreed to this provision?"

"Representative Zickus."

"They were provided a copy of it a few weeks ago. I have not heard any opposition on their part. This was adopted in Committee with no opposition."

"Representative Granberg."

"No one has contacted you from the Cook County Board in regard to this provision?"

"Representative Zickus."

"No, I have not heard from anyone. I have not heard of any opposition to it, Representative." 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

"Representative Granberg." May 14, 1996

"All right, Representative, in regard to the first provision you discussed. You said that was also agreed to by the...by the various parties subject to the negotiations?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Yes, Representative, it's been agreed to."

"Representative Granberg."

"And have you had any discussions with Representative Klingler about putting the pension benefit employee package for state employees on this Bill?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Not yet."

"Representative Granberg."

"Would you like to hold this Bill or put it back to Second so we can put that provision for the state employees pension increase on here?"

"Representative Gran... Representative Zickus."

"No, I think we'll find another Bill for that."

"Representative Granberg."

"Nothing further."

"Further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Davis." Davis, M.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will." Davis, M.: "Representative, what kind of documents will be required to prove that the dependent parent was receiving support from that policeman?"

"Representative Zickus."

"It will be up to the pension fund's trustees and there's the same requirement with the firefighters...currently. You know, they're going to have to require proof that the 40  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 policeman was contributing to the support of the parents at the time of a death. There will be some requirements."

"Representative Davis." Davis, M.: "Yeah, my question is, Representative, will the person have to have been taking care of that parent for a year, six months, two years? Would that person have to be living in the home of that dependent parent? What kind of stipulations or standards are developed in this legislation?"

"Representative Zickus."

"The...the Bill reads that satisfactory proof is submitted to the board that the policeman was contributing to the support of the parent or parents at the time of death."

"Representative Davis." Davis, M.: "Is this just for the firemen and the policemen? It doesn't...it would not extend to teachers who are taking care of dependent parents?"

"Representative Zickus."

"The suburban and downstate firefighter's funds already have that. We are including now the Chicago policemen."

"Representative Davis." Davis, M.: "I'm sure this is an excellent piece of legislation and I will support it."

"Further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Parke."

"Mr. Speaker, I call for the question."

"No one was seeking recognition, so we'll now go to Representative Zickus to close."

"I urge your 'aye' vote for the passage of Senate Bill 1456."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1456 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 pass?' All those in favor signify by saying 'aye'...by voting 'aye'; those opposed signify by voting 'nay'. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. And on this question, there are 117 voting 'yes', 0 voting 'no', 0 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Calendar, Mr. Clerk, on page 6 on the Order of Senate Bills Second Reading appears Senate Bill 1769. Please read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill #1769. The Bill's been read a second time previously. Floor Amendment #1 was adopted. Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Tom Johnson, has been approved for consideration."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Tom Johnson." Johnson, Tom: "Yes, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Senate Bill 1769 would put gross weight limitation of aircraft utilizing the facilities at DuPage County Airport at a gross weight of 91 thousand pounds, except in cases of emergency or in connection with air show exhibitions. And what this new Amendment does is answer the questions that were raised previously on this Bill after discussions with IDOT, who has now removed their objections to this Bill. Would also add language or as required by the Federal Aviation Administration or otherwise comply with federal code. This will assure some of the spurious arguments that were made earlier concerning the loss of potential federal funds for our airports. By inserting this language we are acknowledging the superiority of our wonderful Federal Aviation Administration. And as I said, IDOT has now removed its objections and I would ask the Body to approve 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day this Amendment." May 14, 1996

"And on this is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes."

"Representative, you'll recall when you passed the first Amendment or we debated the first Amendment, I had some concerns that IDOT shared regarding the potential loss of as much as $29 million. My understanding now - I just want to clear this up - is that IDOT has approved this language. They no longer feel we're at risk of losing any federal dollars. Is that correct?"

"Representative Johnson." Johnson, Tom: "That's correct. They helped write this language, Representative."

"Representative Lang."

"And so would you state for legislative intent purposes that it is your understanding in agreement with IDOT that this Amendment and this Bill, if it becomes law, will not risk any federal dollars. Is that correct?"

"Representative Johnson." Johnson, Tom: "That is my understanding."

"Representative Lang."

"Well, I want to thank the Sponsor for being responsive to the concerns we had. Twenty-nine million dollars is a lot of money to give away, and the Sponsor at the time of the original debate was unsure whether it would or wouldn't, and I applaud him for getting together with IDOT and straightening this out. So this Amendment now has my support. Thank you."

"There being no one further seeking 43  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 recognition, Representative Johnson now moves that the House adopt Floor Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1769. And all those in favor signify by saying 'aye'; those opposed signify by saying 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments."

"No further Amendments. A State Mandates Note and Fiscal Note have been requested on the Bill, as amended, and they have been filed."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, on the Order of Senate Bills Third Reading appears Senate Bill 1769. The Chair recognizes...Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"A Bill for an Act relating to vehicle registration plates. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"Representative Tom Johnson." Johnson, Tom: "Yes, Mr. Speaker and Members of the chamber. This is the Bill that I just explained concerning the gross weight limitations at DuPage County Airport and I would ask for a favorable vote."

"The question is...the question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1769 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye'; all those opposed signify by voting 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. And on this question there are 114 voting 'aye', 0 voting 'nay', 1 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 6 of the Calendar on the Order of Senate Bills Second Reading appears Senate Bill 1922. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill #1922, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses for 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 the Office of the Governor. Second Reading of this Senate Bill. Committee Amendment #1 was adopted. No Floor Amendments. No Motions."

"Mr. Clerk, hold this Bill on the Order of Second Reading. Committee Reports, Mr. Clerk."

"Committee notice. Rules Committee will meet at 2:30 p.m. in the Speaker's Conference Room. Rules Committee will meet at 2:30 in the Speaker's Conference Room."

"On page 3 of the Calendar on the Order of Senate Bills Third Reading appears Senate Bill 67. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill #67, a Bill for an Act that amends the Township Code. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"And on that the Chair recognizes the Lady from McHenry, Representative Hughes."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Senate Bill 67, as amended, does one thing. It provides that a portion not to exceed 50 percent of a highway commissioner's salary of a township road district of a single township, may be paid from the corporate road and bridge fund or the permanent road fund if approved by the township board and the highway commissioner. That's the sum of what this Bill does. Be happy to answer questions."

"Is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Scott."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative Hughes, why did we gut the original Bill?"

"Representative Hughes."

"The original Bill introduced last year was amended to another Bill that has since passed and become law." 45  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996

"Representative Scott."

"Why...why is this particular provision necessary? The 50 percent provision? And I ask that question from the prospect that wouldn't it allow dipping into the township road funds in all the townships?"

"Representative Hughes."

"I couldn't hear all of that. You were asking me why it was necessary? Without this..."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, please give the Sponsor and Representative Scott your attention. They can barely hear each other because of the House noise on the floor. Thank you. Representative Scott, please repeat your question."

"We'll start with why it's necessary and how did this come about in the first place."

"Representative Hughes."

"The purpose of this is to give townships the flexibility of using road funds for the salaries of road commissioners. Without this, 100% would come from the General Fund. There are some townships which have had a diminished number of road miles to take care of that have more latitude, more flexibility, less precious demand on their road funds than they do on their General Fund, particularly in capped areas. In substance, what this does, with the approval of both the township trustees and the road commissioner, give greater flexibility in using the funds that they have available to them. It doesn't increase any revenues or anything else, but gives them a little greater flexibility in the usage of those funds."

"Representative Scott."

"The prior law or the existing law, I should say, is that it only...this is only allowed in townships that have an 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 EAV of $5 million or less. Do you know what the...what the reason was for making that cut-off originally? Or was that an arbitrary number or how did people come up with that?"

"Representative Hughes."

"It's currently...is '$5 million or more not $5 million or less.' Okay."

"Representative Scott."

"I had a second half of the question, what the reasoning for that funding level was."

"Representative Hughes."

"I'm not sure what the history of this was. It would appear it was an arbitrary number to apply only to larger ones. This would treat all townships equitably."

"Representative Scott."

"Are highway township...township highway commissioner's salaries set by statute or does that vary by...from township to township?"

"Representative Hughes."

"They are set by ordinance by the town trustees."

"Representative Scott."

"It can vary from township to township."

"Representative Scott."

"Is it possible from this not getting into the issue of whether they deserve it or not, but wouldn't it be possible from this then for lots of township highway commissioners to get a raise because now they've got additional funds that they can pay the funds for...from?"

"Representative Hughes."

"It does not affect the setting of the salary, it merely effects the source of those funds, and again, has to be approved by both parties. Same individuals set the salaries that set them before." 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

"Representative Scott." May 14, 1996

"Well, I realize that. But what I'm saying is, if now extra funds are available to pay for these salaries that weren't available before because they didn't meet the EAV level or whatever. Won't we run into the possibility where township highway commissioners could end up being paid more in different places? They've got more funds to actually pay this salary from."

"Representative Hughes."

"I would defer the answer to that to Representative Saviano."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Saviano to answer the question."

"Representative, this language pretty much originated with my township. I could tell you that...to reiterate, the salaries are set by the town board and approved. Okay? I realize what you're...point you're getting at, that if there's additional funds. If a highway commissioner believes he deserves a raise, under current law he'll go to the town board and ask for more money, and if they agree with him they'll give it to him. Otherwise, they won't give it to him. That check and balance system is not taken out of the picture here. The reason for this language is simply, under the current tax cap laws, we felt this would be an added tool for our township and maybe other townships that are...that are more urban to somewhat cooperate within their funds to alleviate any burden they have on one fund or the other. Last year I Sponsored House Bill 1711 which allowed the highway commissioner to participate in the subsidizing of the RTA's Dial-A-Ride Program. That was another example. I'm trying to give the local township more flexibility to spread their funding around to 48  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 accommodate the services that they feel they should be providing. There's no other agenda than that and I think that the fact that both the highway commissioner and the town board have to agree on this is..."

"Representative Saviano, please continue. Proceed."

"That's pretty much the gist of what we're trying to do here. My townships...the town fund is a lot lower than our highway fund, which operates with no motor fuel funds or anything like that. It's strictly a tax levy produced fund, and we were just trying to even them out, trying to put a little bit more of the burden on funding the services in the township...on the highway fund to give that relief to the town fund currently funding those services."

"Representative Scott."

"One more question. Do you know what the reasoning was for the 50% level originally? What was that rationale?"

"Representative Saviano."

"That...I had originally suggested 100%. The Township Officials of Illinois, to expedite the matter and what they felt keep a check and balance...an additional check in balance in there, would only agree to splitting that 50-50, which we went along with. We'd rather have a half a loaf, than no loaf at all."

"Representative Scott, please bring your remarks to a close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Briefly to the Bill, I don't disagree with what the Representative is trying to do, but I think it does point out once again, we've seen a series of Bills here that are trying to respond to difficulties that are caused by the tax caps. And I suppose under the spirit of the tax caps, the best thing to do would be if 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 they're diminished highway miles, to reduce the actual road levy. But instead of doing that, we're going to spend the funds elsewhere, and I think that points up, again, one of the failures of tax caps."

"Further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Madison, Representative Davis." Davis, S.: "Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise on a point of personal privilege. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd like to take this opportunity to introduce to you a constituent of mine. His name is Mr. James Gray and he's sitting right here in Speaker Madigan's chair. And Mr. Gray...Mr. Gray visited us on another occasion last November when we were in the Veto Session. Mr. Gray is a fine family man. He's a member of his church and he's a community leader. And Mr. Gray is also the President of the Alton branch of the NAACP. Well, during his visit here last November, during the Veto Session, somebody in this chamber stood right over there and took a picture of Mr. Gray speaking to me on this House floor. This picture right here was taken on the floor of the Illinois House of Representatives. This picture has been mailed out anonymously, along with this note, to every white police chief in my district and every white mayor in my district. And the note reads, 'For your information, James Gray, President of the Alton NAACP'..."

"Representative Davis. Representative Davis. This is out...Representative Davis, please bring your remarks to a close. This is not within the House Rules." Davis, S.: "Mr. Speaker, please indulge me on this one point, this point of personal privilege. This anonymous note was mailed out with the photograph. The photograph was taken on the House... Now listen, Mr. Speaker, please indulge 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 me. And Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, you need to listen to this because this effects every Member in this chamber, every Member in this hallowed chamber, when we cannot bring a constituent onto the floor of the Illinois House of Representatives without having them used in the political process. His photograph, this photograph has been used for race-baiting in my district and we should not stand for it. I'm standing here today to call on the Speaker of the Illinois House to immediately investigate this ludicrous travesty in the political process. There is no room in this society. There is no room in this chamber to use our constituents, regardless of what race, creed, or color, regardless if they're a Jewish rabbi or a Catholic priest or a gay or a lesbian. This chamber should not be used in the political process, should not be used to race-bait, should not be used to Jew-bait. I'm calling upon you, Speaker, to do the right thing. Investigate, investigate this nasty, low down, dirty, sleazy piece of political action. I point the finger at you, Mr. Speaker. You are in charge of the House floor. You're in charge of the Rules, you wrote the Rules."

"Please bring your comments to a close." Davis, S.: "The only people allowed on this floor to take photographs are the Democrat staff, Republican staff, and the press. We know the press is not mailing out anonymous letters. We know the Democrats aren't mailing out these anonymous letters."

"Representative Davis, please bring your remarks to a close. We've indulged in this far too long." Davis, S.: "I urge you, Sir, to immediately investigate this act. Let's bring the..."

"Further discussion? The Chair recognizes the 51  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Biggins. Committee notice, Mr. Clerk."

"Rules Committee will meet at 1:45 in the Speaker's Conference Room. Rules Committee will meet at 1:45 p.m. in the Speaker's Conference Room."

"Further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Biggins."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, particularly those Ladies and Gentlemen on the other side of this race-baiting aisle over there. Let me tell you what happened...I'm sorry that the Representative did his own mail piece, because that's what happened. But I was a victim...let me tell you what the Illinois State Democratic Majority sent to my district and I shared it with some of you. It was a piece of..."

"Proceed, Representative Biggins."

"I received a mail piece to part of my district six months ago..."

"Proceed on your point of order."

"...that tried to inflame... It was paid for by the Illinois House Democratic Majority that said that Representative Biggins wants people from Cabrini Green moving out. We don't want people from Cabrini Green moving to my district. That's what the mail piece said, paid for by the Gentleman who was erroneously referred to as Speaker a few minutes ago. He's the ex-Speaker and that race-baiting side of the aisle better stop it because you're the only ones that do it. You count more by race than you do by quality of any other group in this country. And you're going to do it now. This is just the beginning. We know he mailed his own mail piece in his district. He brought that guy onto the floor. He got the House pass for 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 him. We let him get on the floor through the normal process. It's all race-baiting done by the people that do it the best and the only ones that do it, the other side of the aisle."

"We've heard both sides of this issue. We'll now move on to discussions with respect to Senate Bill 67. Is anyone seeking recognition to address Senate Bill 67? There being no further discussion, the Chair recognizes Representative Hughes to close."

"Senate Bill 67 extends to about two-thirds of the townships the ability to use their funds more flexibly in paying salaries for road commissioners. This is already the law for the largest one-third of the townships. Nothing else changes. It simply defeats the threshold of assessed value that must be met. This is supported by township officials. It applies more to downstate townships than others. It is a Bill for good government in that it extends the ability of local officials to spend their dollars as they most see fit. And I urge a 'yes' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 67 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 116 voting 'yes', 0 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 3 of the Calendar, on the Order of Senate Bills Third Reading appears Senate Bill 1759. Mr. Clerk, please read the Bill."

"Senate Bill #1759, a Bill for an Act that amends the Election Code. Third Reading of this Senate 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day Bill." May 14, 1996

"On this Bill, the Chair recognizes Representative Meyer."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill is very straightforward. It requires that a county board of election commissioners appoint the majority of the election judges in a precinct from the leading political party in that precinct, rather than from the political party designated to supply the majority of judges as determined by that precinct's odd or even number. It also changes the dates for various criteria on the appointment of those judges. I appreciate a 'yes' vote. Be happy to answer questions."

"And on this Bill, is there any discussion? The Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Representative Schakowsky."

"You know, it is so noisy on this floor right now, Representative, that I would really appreciate if you could briefly re-explain..."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, please give the Lady your attention."

"I would really appreciate if you would re-explain the legislation."

"Representative Meyer."

"I'd be happy to, Representative. Again, it requires that a county board of election commissioners appoint the majority of election judges in a precinct from the leading political party in that precinct, rather than from the political party designated to supply the majority of judges as determined by the precinct's odd or even precinct number. In some of the precincts...some of the counties, DuPage being one, and then there are several cities that 54  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 are involved under the current practice, if a precinct is numbered 05, for instance, one party versus another party would be required by law to have that number, either Republican or Democratic majority of election judges appointed; 06 would have the opposite and they'd run that way on odd or even. Under most of the state, which this Bill would just bring those...the County of DuPage and several cities under, in the remainder of the state, the determination on election judges is done by if the Republican Party holds more votes than that precinct than the Democratic Party, then they furnish three judges versus Democratic Party furnishing two, and vice versa in those precincts where the Democratic Party would pull more votes, they would furnish the majority of the judges."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"So, is...could you tell us the communities that will be affected by this legislation?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Yes, Representative. The County of DuPage, along with Aurora, Bloomington, Chicago, Danville, East St. Louis, Galesburg, Peoria, Rockford and Springfield. And, Representative, I might add that Chicago supports this legislation."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"On whose behalf is this...Did all of the counties come to you or come to the General Assembly and ask for this change?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Representative, this Bill originated in the Senate. There the Senate Sponsor is the President of the Senate, Rep...Senator Philip. The Bill originated out of DuPage County, but discussions were held, I know for sure, with 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 Chicago and again, I would indicate to you that Chicago does support this. The Bill passed out of the Senate with no dissenting votes."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Why are you changing the dates in this legislation?"

"Representative Meyer."

"The dates, it's a very simple, and again straightforward reason. The dates are just brought into conformity with the schedule for holding the county conventions following the primaries. It allows that the new group of judges that would be appointed would be appointed by the individual county chairmans (sic - chairmen), whether they be from Democratic or Republican Party. It would... It's mainly a housekeeping thing, but it also allows the party structure that has just...that would have just recently elected their new county chairman that structure to appoint...do the actual appointment on judges."

"Representative Schakowsky."

"Let me ask you this, Representative. According to my analysis, it describes a situation where this could be a condition for political infighting because it could allow lame duck county chairman or a county chairman who is being challenged to end up appointing the election judges, because of the dates. Is that a scenario that could occur?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Representative, I would rather suggest that the opposite would occur. It would allow for the new county chairman, the one that has just recently, most recently, been elected by those members voting in the county convention to make the actual appointment. So I believe it would strengthen."

"Representative Schakowsky." 56  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996

"Well, let me just read to you what it says. It says, 'As the Amendment is drafted, a sitting county chairman is notified by March 1st of the need to submit before May 1st the election of judges, the list of election judges. With the March Primary, County Central Committees must choose a chairman by April 1st; therefore, this Amendment could allow a lame duck county chairman or county chairman who is being challenged to appoint election judges.' Am I... Is this incorrect, then?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Representative, according to the schedule of the current law and the proposed law..."

"Representative Meyer, continue, please proceed."

"Representative, according to the schedule that I have on the proposed law, the current law would allow for the appointment from the Central Committee to submit the list of judges by December 31 of the odd number of years. That definitely would create the possibility of a lame duck chairman making those appointments. Under the proposed change, that date would be the May 1 of the even numbered years, which would be after the primary."

"Representative Schakowsky... The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Woolard."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. I rise on a point of personal privilege. I think we're joined today by one of the greatest groups of young people in the State of Illinois, those from the Middle School in Eldorado join Representative Phelps and I. We would like to welcome them. They're here on the History Fair for..."

"Representative Woolard." 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

May 14, 1996 "They're here competing in the History Fair Competition. The kids from the Middle School, Eldorado Grade School, Eldorado, Illinois."

"Please welcome them. Further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, I wanted to ask about the change that you're proposing in this. And I apologize, you may have stated some of these questions, but I honestly can't hear you over the...this noise in the chamber."

Ladies and Gentlemen. Ladies "You're correct. and Gentlemen, please be kind enough to give the both Gentlemen wishing to address this issue your attention in this matter. Keep the outside noise down, so that we can go about the order, the business of the House. Thank you. Proceed, Representative Mautino."

"Representative, the proposed date change, why are you going about making these... Why have you requested this date change?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Representative, I had a conversation with the previous Representative on that, but I'd be happy to respond to you, too. Under the current, the current calendar of submitting and coming up with a list of potential judges that would be submitted and finally appointed, currently the Central Committee would submit the list of judges on December 31st of the odd numbered years. In other words, prior to the actual Primary. The Bill, the Amendment to the Bill, that you're talking about would move that date to the even numbered year, which would be after the Primary. May 1st 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 130th Legislative Day would be the actual month and day. And that would allow the incoming county chair...County Chairman of each party to actually make the appointment versus the outgoing chairman under the other calendar. It could very well be the same person if that person is reelected to another term, but it would I think clean up and give the new party the new part of the party that is now in the leadership the ability to offer the judges."

"Speaker Daniels in the Chair. Representative Mautino."

"Now, as it currently exists, once the Primary is over, we would have...and I am a county chairman, SO what I'm trying to figure out in here is how your change is going to affect those of us downstate. I think there's a couple county chairmen left in the House here. Now currently, we would have our reorganizational meeting and at that we would get our...get the suggestions for the judges in the precincts and would be submitted. When you make this change, what's going to happen in that process?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Representative, just let me walk you through the current law versus the proposed change. The current law provides that in November of the odd numbered years, the Election Board notifies the Central Committee to furnish the list of judges. Then in December 31st of that same odd numbered year, the Central Committee submits the list of judges and in January of the even numbered year, which is of course a month later, and before the Primary, the Election Board deadline arrives to actually appoint the judges. Under the proposed change, the Election Board would notify the Central Committee in March of the even numbered year. The Central Committee submits the list of judges on May 1st of 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 the even numbered year, and before the end of May, the Election Board would have the deadline to appoint. So from that schedule, you can see that the appointment process would include the new leadership of the party in the county."

"Representative Mautino."

"Is there a specific instance that has brought about this change or what you feel is necessary in it?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Representative, could you repeat your question? I had a hard time hearing from the background noise in the chamber."

"Representative Mautino."

"You explained the technical point of the dates, which I am aware of, now is there a specific situation that you are trying to address in here? Is there one specific situation that caused you to make this change for the commissions?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Well, I...Representative, I'm not aware of a specific instance, but it does seem to make good common sense to allow the newly elected chairman and his executive...his or her executive officers to participate in that."

"Representative Mautino."

"And this only applies to election commissions?"

"Representative Meyer."

"It only applies to the county commissions, yes."

"Representative Mautino."

"And which counties? I know you stated those before. I didn't hear them over the noise in this chamber."

"Representative Meyer."

"Representative, it applies to DuPage."

"Further discussion? The Lady from St. Clair, 60  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 Representative Younge."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"There are two different situations in some counties, Representative Meyer, in that there are Municipal Boards of Election and County Boards of Election. Does the Bill as written take this into consideration? And would you explain how that is affected in the Bill."

"Representative Meyer."

"Yes, Representative. It applies to the county elections or the county commission versus the municipality."

"Representative Younge."

"Are you saying that it does not apply to the Municipal Board of Elections?"

"Representative Meyer."

"That is correct."

"Representative Younge."

"Would you explain the meaning of Section 14-4?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Representative, let me find 14-4 here for a second. Representative, the underlying portion allows the rest of the state to continue to operate and the underlying portion only allows it to apply to DuPage."

"Representative Younge."

"I didn't hear what you said."

"Representative Meyer. Ladies and Gentlemen. Representative Meyer." Ladies and Gentlemen. Can I please have your attention?

"Yes, Representative, the portion I believe that you're probably referring to is the underlying portion, which is the change, and that allows that to only apply to DuPage."

"Representative Younge." 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996

"Did you say that this Section only applies to DuPage County? Is that what you said?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Everyone but."

"Representative Younge."

"Is your response that this Section applies to every county, except DuPage County?"

"Representative Meyer."

"Yes."

"Representative Younge."

"Would you please explain why this Section applies to every county in Illinois, except DuPage County?"

"Representative Meyer."

"I'll give you, again, a very short, succinct answer, yes."

"The question was could you explain why this applies to every county, other than DuPage County, Representative Meyer."

"Representative, DuPage is the only County Election Commission."

"Representative Younge."

"I didn't understand what you said. You said it's the only county that does what?"

"Representative Meyer."

"It is the only county that has a County Election Commission."

"Representative Younge."

"So what does that mean so far as this Section is concerned? You've thoroughly confused me, Representative. Explain that, draw that out. Please, we're seeking understanding about the meaning of the Bill. Would you explain why, why are these changes in dates? What is the 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 purpose for changing it from January to May? Representative, you have to excuse me, but I'd like to understand the meaning of this Bill, and I don't have an understanding based on your answers."

"Okay. Representative Younge's inquiry is reasonable. Representative Meyer, would you take the necessary time to explain what this Bill does and the counties in which it affects. Ladies and Gentlemen, can we please have your attention. Representative Meyer."

"This Bill affects DuPage County. It affects DuPage County only. The Bill provides that in DuPage County instead of judges being appointed, the Majority party appointees coming from either an odd or an even dis...precinct. For instance, if you're Precinct #5, one party would have three judges and the opposite Party would have two judges. If, for instance, the Majority Party were Republicans in that precinct, so you'd have three Republicans and two Democrats. In Precinct 6, which would be an even numbered precinct, the reverse would be in effect. Three Democrats and two Republicans would be appointed in that precinct. Virtually, the remainder of the state allows that if the Republican Party in the Primary receives the most votes in the primary, that the next set of judges would...the Republicans would have the majority of judges there, being three, the Democratic Party, two. If in effect that precinct holds the most Democratic votes in that primary, then the next time that the judges were appointed, you'd have three judges appointed from the Democratic Party, two Republican. So basically, instead of going odd to even to determine who, which party would have the predominant number of judges appointed, it would be determined by the 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 most votes cast in the primary. That's one aspect of it. The second aspect is for a timing under the current law. The Election Board notifies the Central Committee to furnish lists of judges on November 1st of odd numbered years. Then the Central Committee submits the list of judges by December 31st of the same odd numbered year. And the Election Board would have a deadline to appoint judges of January, the end of January in the even numbered years, in other words, the next month. Under the proposed change, the Election Board would notify the Central Committee to furnish lists of judges by March 1st of the even numbered years. The Central Committee submits a list of judges by May 1st of an even numbered year, and the Election Board deadline to appoint judges is by the end of May of the even numbered year. The essence of this Amendment is to allow for the new Party hierarchy, whether it be under Republican side or the Democratic side or the Libertarian side or whatever that public...that party is. The new Leadership in that Party would have control of the appointment process of the judges for the next two years. Under the current law, that appointment process could take place by the outgoing party hierarchy or outgoing party chairman. This just makes a lot more sense to allow those that the people of that party have elected to represent them into the next two years to actually make the appointments. It's just that basic and simple."

"Representative Younge, we'll give you some follow-up questions. Your time has expired, but that's okay. Go ahead and ask your questions."

"Alright, and so you're saying that this Bill would only affect DuPage County and would not affect the other 100 counties?" 64  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

"Representative Meyer."

"That is correct, Representative."

"Representative Younge." May 14, 1996

"And it would not have any affect upon any Municipal Board of Elections outside of DuPage County?"

"Representative Meyer."

"That is correct."

"Representative Younge."

"Thank you for your patience. I have no further questions."

"Representative Wirsing."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move to call the question."

"The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?' All in favor say 'aye'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. Representative Meyer, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill has had a fair debate on the floor, and I would..."

"Representative Meyer now moves that the House adopt Senate Bill 1759. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye'; opposed by voting 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 67 'aye', 44 'no', 0 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Page 2 of the Calendar is Senate Bill 26. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Senate Bill #26, a Bill for an Act that amends the Humane Care for Animals Act. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"Representative Parke."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 65  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 House. On the scale of importance of legislation, I would point out that..."

"Excuse me. Excuse me. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Ladies and Gentlemen. Representative Parke."

"Thank you. To a lot of people, this legislation is very important to the degree that it is an emotional Bill for a lot of people. When I... I have had in the past carried Animal Protection Legislation and when this Bill came over from the Senate, it seemed like a logical Bill, which we ought to be passing in the State of Illinois. In the process of going to pass this Bill, the Charros came to me and said, 'You just don't understand what this Bill does. We have a tradition that goes back more than 200 years that we have a rodeo that is a family event. Would you please not call the Bill until you have an opportunity to actually see what we do at our rodeos?' And out of the respect for the legislative process, I felt that that was a fair request, that I ought to listen to both sides of the issue. I ought to have an opportunity to go see it. I did that. A number of other Legislators attended that day. I would say there were 2 to 300 - 400 people that were there. It was a beautiful festivity. The people were dressed in traditional Mexican outfits. It was a beautiful event. It was beautiful until the horse tripping event. What they do is that they take a horse, a 1,000 pound horse running at full gallop and they chase it. And it goes around the arena. And a Charro stands and he waits for the horse to come around and he takes his lasso, and lassos the front two hooves of the horse running at full gallop and pulls those legs out from under that horse. That horse took a terrible tumble, not on its side like it's supposed to, but a complete somersault. The horse comes up dazed, doesn't 66  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 know where it's at. They are then are able to, as it was 2 or 300 years ago when they were on the range, they're able to saddle the horse, break it, and put it into livestock. Well, that tradition is no longer necessary. We do not need in the State of Illinois to treat any kind of an animal in that manner - especially a horse. So what I would ask is that this Bill outlaws horse tripping in Illinois and poling. Now what polling is is to get a horse to learn in the competition of jumping over those poles that we've seen so often. That's a beautiful event. But what they do is they take and they hit the top of the legs to get the horse to jump higher. Well, all of the training and all of the horse groups now have outlawed that and says that we shouldn't be doing that in Illinois either. So what this Bill does is it outlaws horse tripping and poling. Now in the scope of things, it may not sound like that's a big deal, but let me show you files that I have gotten over the course of the last year from people all over the United States asking each one of you to outlaw this in Illinois. Now I'm only interested in outlawing this part of the rodeo. I have to tell you, the rodeo's a beautiful event. I enjoyed it. It is part of their culture, but they can still do the whole rodeo, which took two or three hours, they could still do the whole thing and just not do this one part. It's not the right thing to do. It's inhumane the way they treat it now. They told us that no horses really have been hurt or maimed or killed. Well, that's not necessarily true. Now I agree, it doesn't happen often. But you know, they have to practice this, cause when I was there, they have two teams that compete to do this. Three gentlemen came out, only one was successful. On the other team came out, three tried it and 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 only one was successful. So what we had was that out of two out of six attempts were successful. So they've got to practice it. Well, we never see the practice event. We never see any horses that are hurt there. Ladies and Gentlemen, we do not need this legislation. I will tell you that I am not interested in stopping any kind of activity that goes on at rodeos. The Rodeo Association opposes this also. It has been outlawed in California, New Mexico and in Texas, which have large Hispanic populations. They no longer do it there. Can we be any less responsible than to outlaw it here in Illinois? You know it comes down to this: As a society, it seems to me that we can only be judged as a society on how well we treat ourselves and how well we treat our animals. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a bad idea. We should stop this part of the Charro Rodeo. I would ask for an affirmative vote."

"Representative Santiago."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"Indicates he will."

"Representative Parke, can you tell me how many horses have been injured in the last 12 years in Illinois?"

"Representative Parke."

"In the...just nod your head, last year? Or the last couple years? The last 12 years? Representative, in the last 12 years I do not know, but the Humane Pac is indicated that there's been horses that have broken their legs, one sustained a broken back, one was killed. Now that may not seem like a lot, but it's done consistently. Rodeo, I mean, not the killing but it seems like these animals get... The practice is not what we ought to be practicing in Illinois. So to tell you specifically, I 68  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE don't have an answer. I don't know. May 14, 1996 Perhaps, you may want to enlighten us."

"Representative Santiago."

"Yes, I would like to give the correct information. The last 12 years since the Mexican commu...or Mexican rodeo have been practicing this sport, in Illinois only one horse was injured. What is the difference between roping a horse, tripping a horse and tripping a steer? I see...I've seen rodeos, the American rodeo, where you go out and you go and rope a steer, a cow and other animals. What is the difference? Is it inhumane to rope a cow or trip a cow, trip a steer? What is the difference between a horse and the steer of tripping them? I mean..."

"Representative Parke."

"Thank you. I'd like to answer that by simply saying in many cases, a horse is a companion animal; it's a pet, and especially in Illinois. We do not have ranges in Illinois any longer. People raise horses as part of the agri-business out here. They raise it for stock sometimes, but they also raise it many times as racing horses that are treated well, that are nurtured, that are raised for stud and racing. But many times, horses are the pets of people. They are very important, like a dog or a cat is, and those things cannot be... Many times you see that these are almost treated like members of the family. And that's the difference between a horse and a cow. A cow is raised for meat."

"Representative Santiago."

"Yes, we also have snakes, pigs and other animals as pets. So, there's basically no real difference. When you rope a steer and you bring it down, and you twist its neck, I think that's more inhumane than tripping a horse. I mean 69  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 it depends on who's...on who's looking at the sport. Now, does the Illinois Humane...the Illinois law already prohibit this kind of cruelty to animals?"

"Representative Parke."

"There is a law that says that...that there is a part that says you can outlaw some types of treatment that is cruel to animals. But quite frankly, it is the feeling of the people, such as the Illinois Veters...Veterinary Association and the Illinois Farm Bureau, who feel that that law is not strong enough, that there are loopholes in it. We want to be specific. We want to specifically say that horse tripping and poling are specifically outlawed so that when someone goes to court, the judge or the State's Attorney, who may be prosecuting this, is defined in the law that this practice is outlawed."

"Representative Santiago, you just have a short time left. Representative Lopez is going to yield his time to you, Sir. Say thank you Representative Lopez."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"No, thank you, Representative Lopez."

"And thank you."

"Okay."

"Terry, can you tell me how many horses break their legs in Illinois in horse racing?"

"Representative Santiago... Representative Parke."

"Representative, I again do not have that answer. Perhaps you can enlighten us."

"Representative Santiago."

"I believe that dozens of horses break legs in horse racing here in the State of Illinois every season. Is that inhumane? Or is that an accident? Or what do we call 70  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day that?"

"Representative Parke."

"I call it an unfortunate event."

"Representative Santiago." May 14, 1996

"It's an unfortunate event, but when you trip a horse, we call that inhumane. Where...What we have here is a double standard, and I believe, this is very unfair to say that a Mexican sport, an equestrian sport, which has been in the Mexican culture for centuries would...is the specific target of, which I feel is the specific target of this Bil1 which I think is unfair because we already have the law that covers any cruelty to animals. Believe me, I'm not...I'm a strong believer of animal rights. I'm a strong believer of being fair, but I believe that this Bill is very unfair, because it only specifies horses and horse tripping. Well, you have more cruelty when you have racing in this State of Illinois. No one says that because it's a big industry which brings money to the State of Illinois, brings revenue. But, you know, we have to see the various differences. Now, and there hasn't...there's no evidence here in the State of Illinois that says that any horse that's been injured, maimed because of this sport. So, why do we have a Bill that it specifically doesn't address a problem? There's no problem. The only problem is that you have a sport here which addresses, which the Mexican community traditionally takes part in this kind of event, and it doesn't cost anything. It doesn't hurt anyone. But we're just making, once again, taking a small group and we're making that a target of a piece of legislation, which doesn't do basically anything. It's already covering the law. The Illinois law says, 'no person may beat or cruelly treat or torment, starve, overwork or otherwise abuse any 71  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 animal.' It's already in the statute. Why do we pick on horse tripping? Why? There's no evidence, Ladies and Gentlemen. This legislation is basically unfair. Let's be fair. If you want to be fair, I have an Amendment, which I drafted, which covers all the animals: steers, bulls, cows you name them. Let's put them all in the Bill. If you're very sincere about animals, let's be sincere. Let's draft the Amendment, and let's cover all the animals, because everyone here should be aware of the cruelty to the other animals. Let's be specific. I appreciate that you came out this summer, and you looked at the sport. And we thank you for that. And you saw for yourself, there was no animals injured then. I have seen here that some pictures have been passed out to the House here. But those pictures were taken in California; they were not taken in Illinois. The proponents of this Bill are trying to confuse the Legislators here. They had a video; that video was shot in California, not in Illinois. So what this tells me, there's some unfairness in this process, there's some unfairness in this Bill. We're trying to keep a tradition in the Mexican community. This is a sport for them. Why punish the Mexican community? Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Burke."

"Thank you, Speaker. I rise in support of this Senate Bill. Much has been heard from my colleagues with respect to this being a very important custom in the Mexican community, particularly. I might recommend to my colleagues here that I live in a predominantly Hispanic district and inquiring of my neighbors with regard to this activity, none of them ever heard of it. How can it be so important a custom in the Hispanic community if my 72  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 neighbors and those that I engage with in the City of Chicago have never heard of it. Not such an important custom. I understand from further investigation that it's a very important sport for those who are very wealthy in the Hispanic community. One Gentleman who is contrary to this legislation, in fact, owns his own arena on his own property and engages in this particular activity. I would like to know from that individual, would he use his own, personally owned, horse and trip his own animal? I'm certain the answer to that is no. I can tell you from discussions with the Humane Associations that the animals that are used in this activity are on their way to the glue factory. There is not a one of them that is owned by the person who is doing the tripping or who is conducting the arena sport. It's very unfortunate that this inhumane treatment would be permitted in the State of Illinois. And I certainly agree with the Sponsor of this legislation, that there are many, many more important matters to consider in this Body. But certainly as he suggested, if we can't take care of the least of God's creatures, how in the world are we going to worry about seniors and education and the children of this state? Ladies and Gentlemen, I hope you will consider this to be important in the whole perspective of how do you treat people or how would we treat animals that can't take care of themselves. Please do the right thing. Please vote for this Bill. It is important to the horse world. It is important to the animal community. It is important to the humane animal world. Please, give it some serious consideration. It's not a joke. And I might recommend to those Sponsors...to those individuals who would vote against this, that they take a running start from the door, I'll get my lasso out 73  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 and trip them on their back and see if it doesn't hurt them. So, Ladies and Gentlemen, please vote for Senate Bill 26."

"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Adams, Representative Tenhouse."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I guess first of all, I want to rise in opposition to Senate Bill 26, and say first of all that the Sponsor of the Bill, I know that he's well intentioned, but for people who have been involved in as far as production agriculture from the time I was able to walk about and certainly dealing and taking care of livestock all of my life from as far as cattle and hogs and horses, I guess I have some real concerns about where we're going here. I understand what you're saying as far as your concern as far as your so called poling or tripping, but I also looked at this when we talked about the fact Illinois law already really protects this far as any abuse as far as animals are concerned under this particular thing. And to me, what we're doing is we're just singling out the Hispanic community, certainly in terms of something that's been in their culture for literally hundreds of years. I don't understand why we're going to pursue this. I agree with what Representative Santiago had to say. For someone who goes to every county fair, has been involved in every festival and small town in downstate and certainly the rodeos are a big part of our life downstate. To think that we're going to set aside and say, 'Well, it's alright for us to do it. I mean we can go ahead and rope cattle. We can twist their head. We can put them on the ground.' But yet we're saying because Hispanics have a tradition that's a little bit different, that we're not going to go along 74  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 with it. I...you know, this is a...I just...I guess I look back and I just don't think that this makes a great deal of sense. It's unnecessary. And certainly if the abuses were taking place, then I think frankly the Illinois Department of Agriculture could act on those. I think it's unnecessary legislation, and I urge a 'no' or 'present' vote."

"Further discussion? Representative Wirsing."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous question."

"The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?' All in favor say 'aye'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. Representative Parke to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Let's not be confused. I am only talking about one small part of a cultural event that takes place in this state. Literally hundreds of people all over the United States, many of them living in Illinois, have written to me, to Lee Daniels, the Speaker of the House, to Representative Noland and the Ag...Chairman of the Ag. Committee pleading with us to ban this sport. I'm telling you this has nothing to do with any other aspects of rodeo. I would simply ask for us to show the people of the United States that we also will not allow this treatment of animals in Illinois."

"Representative Parke moves for the passage of Senate Bill 26. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; opposed by voting 'no'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? One last time. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 94 'aye', 13 voting 'no', 6 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional 75  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, Committee Reports."

"Committee Reports. Committee Report from Representative Churchill, Chairman from the Committee on Rules, to which the following Joint Action Motions were referred, action taken on May 14, 1996, reported the same back 'do approve for consideration' to the House floor Floor Amendment #5 to Senate Bill 1278; to the Order of Concurrence, Motions to Concur have been approved on House Bill 2621, House Bill 2451, House Bill 2532 and House Bill 3617. A Motion to Nonconcur has been approved for Senate Amendment #3 to House Bill 3451."

"Committee Notices."

"Attention, Members. Committee Notices..."

"Please, Members, please give us your attention."

"Committee postings for this afternoon. Agriculture and Conservation Committee will meet at 3:00 p.m. in Room 114. Agriculture and Conservation Committee will meet at 3:00 p.m. in Room 114. Judiciary for Civil Law will meet at 3:30 in Room D-1. Judiciary for Civil Law, at 3:30 in Room D-1. And Constitutional Officers will meet at 3:30 in Room 118. Constitutional Officers will meet at 3:30 in Room 118, not Room C-1, but Room 118. Again, Agriculture and Conservation Committee will meet at 3:00 p.m. in Room 114. Judiciary for Civil Law, 3:30 in Room D-1. And Constitutional Officers at 3:30 in Room 118."

"The House will now stand in recess until the hour of four o'clock p.m."

"The House will come to order, the hour of four o'clock having come and gone. All those people not 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day entitled to the House floor will please gallery. Mr. Clerk, Committee Reports."

Clerk McLennand: Representative May 14, 1996 retire to the "Committee Reports. Committee Report from Noland, Chairman from the Committee on Agriculture and Conservation, to which the following Joint Action Motions were referred, action taken on May 14, 1996, reporting the same back 'do approve for consideration' on a Motion to Concur on Senate Amendment #1 and 2 to House Bill 907 and Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1798. Committee Report from Representative Rutherford, Chairman from the Committee on Constitutional Officers, to which the following Joint Action Motions were referred, action taken on May 14, 1996, reported the same back 'do approve for consideration' a Motion to Concur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 2799. Committee Report from Representative Cross, Chairman from the Committee on Judiciary for Civil Law to which the following Joint Action Motions were referred, action taken on May 14, 1996, reported the same back 'do approve for consideration' Floor Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1467. Attention, Members, Committee Notice. Wednesday, May 15, Elementary and Secondary Education Committee will meet at 8:30 a.m. in Room C-1. Again, Elementary and Secondary Education will meet on Wednesday at 8:30 in Room C-1. Committee Reports. Committee Report from Representative Rutherford, Chairman from the Committee on Constitutional Officers, to which the following Joint Action Motions were referred, action taken on May 14, 1996, reported the same back 'do approve for consideration' Motion of Concurrence Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 2799. Committee Report from Representative Noland, Chairman from the Committee on Agriculture and Conservation, to which the following Joint Action Motions 77  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 were referred, action taken on May 14, reported the same back 'do approve for consideration' Motion to Concur on Senate Amendment #1 and 2 to House Bill 907 and Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 1798. Committee Report from Representative Cross, Chairman from the Committee on Judiciary for Civil Law, to which the following Joint Actions Motions were referred, action taken on May 14, 1996, reported the same back 'do approve for consideration' Floor Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1467. Committee Notice. Elementary and Secondary Education will meet on Wednesday, May 15 at 8:30 a.m. in Room C-1. Again, Elementary and Secondary Education will meet on Wednesday, May 15 at 8:30 a.m. in Room C-1."

"Representative Black in the Chair. The House will come to order. On House Calendar Supplemental #1. On page 5 of the Calendar, Senate Bills - Second Reading appears Senate Bill 1467. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"Senate Bill #1467. The Bill's been read a second time previously. Committee Amendment #1 was adopted. Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Cross, has been approved for consideration."

"And on the Amendment, the Gentleman from Kendall, Representative Cross."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Floor Amendment #2, we just passed out of Committee, Judiciary - Civil Law without any opposition. It had a 10 to 0 vote. I don't know of any opposition. It cleans up some concerns Members of the Committee had. I presented the Bill. I'll be glad to answer any questions or at least I'll try. Thank you."

"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. And on that, is there any discussion? No one's seeking recognition. Representative Cross to close." 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996

"I'm ready to yield. This is incredible. Well, thank you. I'd like a...I'd appreciate an 'aye' vote."

"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion and all that. I assume you're ready to vote. Those in favor of Floor Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1467 signify by saying 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Third Reading. Oh, excuse me. Are there further Amendments, Mr. Clerk?"

"No further Amendments are approved for consideration. And a Pension Impact Note has been requested on the Bill and has been filed."

"Third Reading. On the Speaker's special order of call the order of conservation and deer hunting appears, I can't remember the number, Representative Woolard's Bill. Representative Woolard, do you wish to call the Bill?"

"Thank you, Mr. Chairman or Mr. Speaker. I really appreciate the opportunity to once again let the Body know that we're still in very strong negotiations. I believe that we will be successful in accomplishing our goal. In the very near future, we're going to have something that will be of great value to this Body, and especially all of the people of the regions of the state where the deer population is so exorbitant. I would encourage you to hold this in reserve because I think a settlement is imminent."

"We may not get back to this, Representative, but I gave you a fair opportunity. Mr. Clerk, on the Order of Senate Bills - Third Reading appears Senate Bill 1467. Please read the Bill."

"Senate Bill #1467, a Bill for an Act that amends the Criminal Code of 1961. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"And on the Motion, the Gentleman from Kendall, 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day Representative Cross."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. May 14, 1996 Senate Bill 1467 does several things. One, it addresses a problem that has occurred in several counties throughout the State of Illinois where the...a group known as the posse comitatus, I think I'm pronouncing that correctly, is a group that doesn't recognize the Constitution among many other things. And they've gone about filing liens that don't have any validity to them against state's attorneys as well as judges that prosecuted them and found them guilty. So what we've done is created an offense, criminal offense. It's a Class A Misdemeanor that would provide that you would be guilty if you file a lien that has no validity to it. We cleaned it up with that last Amendment that I talked about. I don't believe there's any opposition to that Bill at this point. I'd be glad to ans...or that portion of the Bill. I'd be glad to answer any questions. The second portion of this Bill deals with curfew with minors and puts some responsibility on parents. It also outlines the type of penalty with respect to fines and community service that can be leveled. I'll be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any."

"You heard the Gentleman's Motion. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Johnson, Tom Johnson." Johnson, Tom: "Yes, will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will." Johnson, Tom: "Tom, that last Amendment that we just put on this Bill, what exactly does that do or say? I mean we didn't have an explanation to that. Would you explain that? I want to know."

"Representative Cross." 80  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

"Thank you. Johnson, Tom: Yea."

May 14, 1996 You're talking about Amendment #2, Tom?" "That's the one that we just did a minute ago. "Representative Cross."

"Several Members of the Committee, including specifically Representative Lang and I think some others, were concerned that attorneys might have some liability if they filed liens, not knowing that they were being improperly filed. And the concern was we didn't want to create any liability if they were working on behalf of a client. I'm not so sure that we needed to do this language. I think an attorney has an obligation to make sure a lien is valid anyway before he or she files one, but this addressed some concerns that Members of the Committee had, and maybe they're right and I'm wrong, but this takes away any liability an attorney would have if he filed a lien."

"Representative Johnson." Johnson, Tom: "When you say it takes away liability, is this an absolute escape hatch here or is...What if you knowingly file a lien against somebody's property and you know that it's wrong?"

"Representative Cross."

"Well, Representative, I think you've got...I think you've got several concerns. If you knowingly file a lien, irrespective of what we've done with creating a criminal offense of coding the title, I think you probably have some...excuse me, I've got something under my contact. I think you have some problems with the ARDC for one thing. And I think you could have some problems with your law license if you knowingly file an invalid lien. This...but the first sentence of this language says, 'This Section does not apply to an attorney licensed to practice in this 81  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 state who in good faith files a lien.' So if you knowingly, to further answer your question, if you knowingly file one improperly, I think you have some liability, criminally as well."

"Representative Johnson." Johnson, Tom: "Who is supporting this Amendment? Is this a Bar Association Amendment or what?"

"Representative Cross."

"They do support this Amendment. The ISBA does support it. It was one that came about because of some concerns, I said, of Members of the Committee. But the ISBA has looked at it and they do support it."

"Representative Johnson." Johnson, Tom: "Nothing further."

"Further discussion on the Gentleman's Amendment? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of this Bill. I had some concerns about this Bill in Committee. The Sponsor very graciously addressed my concerns with an Amendment, and I think the Bill should now be supported."

"Further discussion on the Gentleman's Motion? The Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. First of all, our congratulations to the Sponsor. Hopefully, the baby looks like Mother, his Mother. But secondly, to the Bill, I want to thank the Representative for his help in addressing this issue. We have had serious problems in the Metro-East area downstate. It's happened there. It's starting to spread across downstate Illinois, and we cannot let these people try to intimidate our public officials, whether they be state's attorneys or judges or whomever. This clearly a violation of the law and that is what they're attempting to 82  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day intimidate them from making the correct May 14, 1996 decisions. So I rise in support of the Gentleman's Bill. I think for one of the few items working together on a bipartisan basis for the best interests of all the people of this state, wish we could do it more often."

"With no one seeking recognition, the Gentleman Cross: from Kendall, Representative Cross to close." "Thank you. I would appreciate an 'aye' vote and just in response to Representative Johnson's questions, I think they were valid and appropriate. I...In looking at the Amendment a little closer, Tom, I do think that if an attorney knowingly violates...or knowingly files a false claim, I think he has some problems so, I hope I've addressed your concerns, Representative Johnson. I'd appreciate an 'aye' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1467 pass?' All in favor vote 'aye'; opposed vote 'nay'. Voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 116 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'nay', 0 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, on House Calendar Supplemental #1, there appears on the Order of Concurrence House Bill 3617. Please read the Bill."

"House Bill #3617, a Motion to concur has been approved for consideration."

"And on that, the Lady from Cook, Representative Zickus is recognized."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I wish to concur with Senate Amendments 1 and 2 to House Bill 3617. When House Bill 3617 passed the House at 112 - 0, it 83  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 provided that any person who distributes a nonprescribed drug to a minor under 18 with the intent that they ingest that drug for the purpose of quick weight gain or loss for sporting events, that they would be charged...guilty of the offense of drug induced infliction of aggravated battery to a child athlete. Senate Amendment 1 expands the language to include 'persons who encourage the ingestion of drugs for weight loss or gain in sport events,' the language is to include persons who tell these kids to purchase the product, as well as persons who give the products to the kids. It also changes the language to include all drugs, and not just nonprescribed drugs. Senate Amendment 2 replaces the word, 'distribution' with the word, 'care'. And it does not change the overall intent of the Bill. The language would then read...would now read, 'This Section does not apply to care under usual and customary standards of medical practice by a physician licensed to practice medicine in all its branches, nor to the sale of drugs or products by a retail merchant.'"

"And on the Lady's Motion, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang is recognized."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative, as I understand Amendment #1, it exempts not only physicians, but sale of over-the-counter drugs by retail merchants. I presume that's pharmacists, drugstores, places like Venture, 7-Eleven, all kinds of places that sell these things that are just sitting on the racks. Is that what you're referring to?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Yes, that is correct. It takes out nonprescribed 84  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day drugs."

"Representative Lang." May 14, 1996

"Well, I'm not opposed to what you're doing, but I do have a question about it. So if you exempt physicians and you exempt over-the-counter drugs, who's left?"

"Representative Zickus."

"The physicians are exempted for a reason. If they're caring for a child as their patient, then they should not be held guilty of an offense if there is a medical reason for it."

"Well, that wasn't the part I was concerned about. I was really concerned about the second part, and not that I'm opposed to it, but if you exempt physicians and you exempt these...that are purchased over-the-counter, cause you're talking about nonprescription drugs in the first place, what's left? What's left? Give me an example of something that's still covered under your Bill after these exemptions."

"Representative Zickus."

"What we're really doing is going after an adult who is either encouraging the child... We took out 'distribution' and anyone who encourages a child, so if you as an adult are telling this child to take this drug for a quick weight loss or weight gain, then you would be responsible."

"Representative Lang."

"So if I'm the adult and I tell someone to go to the drugstore and buy Brand X. I know a couple of names, we'll just call them Brand X. It's okay for the pharmacist to sell it under your Bill, but if I as an adult suggest that the child get that, I'm at risk?"

"Representative Zickus."

"Your...If your intent is to encourage that child to take 85  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 the drug for this purpose, yes, then you would be held responsible for it."

"Representative Lang."

"But that's only in connection then with athletics. So if a friend of mine has a fat child and that child asks for my advice and I say, 'Well, why don't you go buy this over-the-counter drug?' I am not held responsible under your Bill, but if that child is a weight lifter and I say, 'You know, I think it'll improve your performance. Go buy that drug or go buy that nonprescription medication.' So the only difference is the purpose for which it is being used?"

"Representative Zickus."

"If you will recall, Representative, last year there was an incident, and it happens more than one time, of a coach who gave a player, a young boy, Lasix to lose weight. The doctor was the one who brought this to the public's attention. We are trying to prevent people from endangering young...from endangering children by using drugs for that purpose."

"Representative Lang."

"Representative, I completely support what you're trying to do. You're trying to keep coaches, from high school athletes and junior high athletes and college athletes from suggesting to young people they take these medications for quick weight loss. I have no problem with that. What I think I have a concern about is the language that's left in your Bill. You don't limit this to coaches. So if my next door neighbor's kid, who is fat, comes to me and I suggest that you run to the drugstore and buy this thing, if that person is an athlete, I could go to jail. If that person is not an athlete, just a little fat kid, then I can't go 86  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 to jail. Don't you want to rewrite this in a way that says what you want it to say?"

"Representative Zickus."

"I think anytime that you're going to encourage a child that's not yours to take any drug without their doctor's advice and consent, then you're asking for trouble."

"Representative Lang."

"Thank you. Well, I'm trying not to belabor this. Let me just say I'm going to vote for your Bill. I'm going to vote for your Concurrence Motion, but I have some very serious questions about the language. And I would hope that the Governor's folks will take a look at this and consider an Amendatory Veto that will straighten out this language. I don't think this does exactly what you want it to do, but I'm going to be with you on this."

"And on that, is there any further discussion? Seeing none, Representative Zickus to close."

"I would appreciate your 'aye' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall the House concur with Senate Amendments 1 and 2 to House Bill 3617?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye'; opposed signify by voting 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 116 voting 'aye', 0 voting 'nay', 0 voting 'present'. This Bill having received a... Excuse me, 116 voting 'aye', 0 voting 'nay', 0 voting 'present'. The House does concur with Senate Amendments #1 and 2 to House Bill 3617 and this Bill, having received the required Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Excuse me, the Chair is aware that the Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black, is seeking recognition, but since 87  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 he's in the Chair, someone has obviously pushed his button. Who's seeking recognition from my desk?"

"Mr. Speaker, I think it's totally irresponsible on your behalf to reject the opportunity for anyone to have an opportunity to say something on a Bill. You clearly saw my light on a while ago and I want this...I want this stopped immediately. I don't think there's in any way that we can tolerate it and by golly, I'm here to tell you that we're not going to..."

"The Gentleman is out of order for a very poor impersonation. If someone...If someone in the back could indulge the Chair, every time the door opens, I see a rather large frog. Now either my glasses are...need a desperate cleaning or there is a large frog out there. If somebody could check into that out for me, I'd be most grateful. On House Calendar Supplemental #1, on the Order of Concurrence, there appears House Bill 3532. And on that, the Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Winkel."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is concurrence in Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3532. It's a simple change. It simply makes the Act effective immediately."

"You heard the Gentleman's Motion. On that, is there any discussion? Seeing none, Representative Winkel to close."

"I urge a 'yes' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall the House concur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3532?' All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; opposed signify by voting 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 116 voting 'aye', 0 voting 'nay', 1 88  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 voting 'present'. The House does concur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3532 and this Bill, having received the required Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Same order of business on House Calendar Supplemental #1, there appears House Bill 2621. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill #2621, a Motion to Concur has been approved for consideration."

"And on that, the Lady from DuPage, Representative Biggert is recognized."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would move to concur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 2621. Senate Amendment #1 repeals Section 7 of the Counterfeit Trademark Act, which provides the 'civil remedy against people's...persons who commit or participate in any act prohibited by the provisions of the Act.' Since the current Illinois Counterfeit Trademark Act was passed in 1955, and there have been other Acts which have been passed, which provide specific rights and civil remedies which would be accorded to anyone who has a suit in the...under the Counterfeit Trademark Act. The State Registration Act, the Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act and the Deceptive Trade Practices Act. And these Statutes were not in effect when the Act was enacted and provide sufficient protection for trademark owners and I would urge do passage and be happy to answer any questions."

"You heard the Lady's Motion. And on that, is there any discussion? With no one seeking recognition, the Lady from DuPage, Representative Biggert to close."

"I would concur with Senate Amendment #1...and urge your concurrence." 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996

"The question is, 'Shall the House concur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 2621?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye'; opposed by voting 'nay'. Voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 115 voting 'aye', 0 voting 'nay', 0 voting 'present'. The House does concur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 2621 and this Bill, having received the required Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, on the same order of business, House Calendar Supplemental #1 appears House Bill 2799. Please read the Bill."

"House Bill #2799, a Motion to Concur has been approved for consideration."

"And on that Motion, the Gentleman from Jackson, Representative Bost is recognized."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Senate Amendment #1 basically allows widows or spouses of any Illinois resident who participated in the Battle of Pearl Harbor to apply for Pearl Harbor special plates. It also creates the Knights of Columbus plate that is identical language to the Masonic Temple plate."

"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. And on that, the...is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, this is plates for the Knights of Columbus and Pearl Harbor. Are there any requirements for membership in the Knights of Columbus that would exclude certain people?" 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996

"Representative Bost."

"I cannot answer that because I'm not a member of the Knights of Columbus."

"Representative Bost, did you care to answer the question? He answered. Representative Dart, I'm sorry I'm being bothered by a frog. Representative Dart."

"Representative, the...my understanding would be that the Knights of Columbus, you'd have to be Catholic, so this would only be a license plate for Catholics would be able to obtain. Is that correct?"

"Representative Bost."

"Anyone who is a Knight of Columbus. I'm...I'll correct that. Anyone who wants to support Knights of Columbus."

"Representative Dart."

"So you don't have to be a member then. You can be any way affiliated whatsoever. Is that correct?"

"Representative Bost."

"That is correct, even if you were a frog, even if you were a green frog, if you wanted to pay the fee, you could have that plate."

"Representative Dart."

"Now, Representative, we had a Bill here earlier this Session dealing with special license plates that I was informed that that was going to be the new method that we operated under. Is that the policy or not the policy as far as special license plates? Is this an exception to that or are we going to let the Secretary of State decide?"

"Representative Bost."

"If that pol...If that Bill is passed, then this will...this can all be included with it. That was asked in Committee."

"Representative Dart." 91  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996

"So then if that Bill passed, then just to clarify then this Bill would have no effect at all and would just be something the Secretary of State would determine on a case by case basis, like everything else?"

"Representative Bost."

"It would be up to the the Secretary then."

"Representative Dart."

"No further questions."

"With no one seeking recognition, the Gentleman from Jackson, Representative Bost to close."

"This is a good initiative. I just request an 'aye' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall the House concur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 2799?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish?. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 116 voting 'aye', 0 voting 'nay', 0 voting 'present'. And the House does concur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 2799 and this Bill, having received the required Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 5 of the Calendar, there appears Senate Bills - Second Reading. There appears Senate Bill #1527. Please read the

Bill. Clerk McLennand: "Senate Bill #1527, the Bill's been read a second time previously. No Committee Amendments. Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Biggert, has been approved for consideration."

"And on the Amendment, the Lady from DuPage, Representative Biggert."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The Amendment on Senate Bill 1527 was 92  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 proposed to clarify language in the statute and to delete the language in Section 12, which gives the guardian of the estate the right to revoke a trust, which is language which was felt gave too much power to a guardian of the estate. And I would ask for passage of Floor Amendment #1."

"You heard the Lady's Motion. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative, so the original Bill allowed for the guardian to exercise the ward's rights to revoke a trust and now we're stepping back from that. Is that what this does?"

"Representative Biggert."

"That's correct. It is limiting it from revoking a trust or surrendering the right to revoke a revokable trust, SO it is more restrictive of the powers of the guardian. And that was put in to address concerns of the corporate fiduciaries."

"Representative Dart."

"Are there any other provisions left in here now that deal with the guardian's ability over trusts?"

"Representative Biggert."

"Yes, number 11 of EA5 which is found on page 3 which says that, 'Modified by means of codicil or trust amendment the terms of the ward's will or any revokable trust created by the ward as the court may consider advisable in light of changes in applicable tax laws'."

"Representative Dart."

"So then the only provision left with trusts is that minor provision that deals with changes that may have to occur as 93  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 the result of changes in the law? I mean nothing of major nature, then?"

"Representative Biggert."

"I'm sorry, could you repeat that?"

"Just the only provision then left is the one that you just read which is one that allows for the changes in the guardian's will or trust just for those limited situations when there's changes in the existing law that requires modification?"

"Representative Dart. Representative Biggert, I'm sorry."

"I said that's correct. I'm sorry, my light wasn't on."

"Representative Dart."

"No further questions."

"With no one seeking recognition, the Lady from DuPage, Representative Biggert to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Amendment is to refine the duties of a guardian of the estate and restrict it. And I would ask for 'do passage'."

"You heard the Lady's Motion and on that, adopting Floor Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1527. All those in favor will signify by saying 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk, any Amendments...any further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments have been approved for consideration. The Notes that have been requested on the Bill have been filed."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, on the Order of Senate Bills now Third Reading appears Senate Bill 1527. Please read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1527, a Bill for an Act amending the 94  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 Probate Act of 1974. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"And on the Bill, the Lady from DuPage, Representative Biggert is recognized."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1527 is to amend the Probate Act, and provides that the Probate Court may authorize a guardian other than the guardian of a minor to exercise the powers that a ward could exercise over the ward's estate and business affairs. And it provides that the guardian's actions shall be in keeping with the ward's wishes SO far as they can be ascertained. It lists actions the guardian may take and provides that the guardian may make certain gifts of the ward's assets and provides that the guardian shall investigate and pursue a ward's eligibility for governmental benefits. And I'd be happy to answer, any questions."

"You've heard the Lady's Motion, and on that, is there any discussion? With no one seeking recognition, the Lady from DuPage, Representative Biggert, is recognized to close. Excuse me, I'm sorry. Representative, the Gentleman from Will, Representative Wennlund, are you seeking recognition on this?"

"Yes, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"Representative Biggert, under what circumstances can a guardian alter, amend, or change a living trust or other instrument with this Bill as amended?"

"Representative Biggert."

"The circumstances are when a ward has become disabled and there is unable to effect changes and so the Probate 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 Court gives the guardian permission to make those changes. They have to go to the court and ask for these changes. This is done when there is a particularly when there is a ward who might have come into an amount of money when they are disabled and they have made no estate plan for their assets and it's to minimize estate taxes, as well as to keep their affairs as they would have intended if they would have been able to make such disposition."

"Representative Wennlund."

"So you mean to tell me that a court gives the guardian the authority to redo a will for a ward?"

"Representative Biggert."

"No, that's not correct. There's nothing in here about changing a will."

"Representative Wennlund."

"What can a guardian change under the terms of this Bill, is what I'm really trying to get down to? Can he change the provisions of a living trust, and how assets are disposed of that belong to the ward?"

"Representative Biggert."

"In some instances, yes, that is correct as long as the probate judge is in accord. It has to be approved by the court."

"Representative Wennlund."

"How does the Bill, as it is amended, give any protection to the relatives of the ward, of the guardian, as with respect to the disposition of the wards assets upon his death?"

"Representative Biggert."

"Under the Bill, it provides that the Probate Court with the petition of a guardian, may authorize these powers. Number one, to ascertain and carry out the wards wishes, 96  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 the court is to consider minimalization of state or federal income tax, the state inheritance taxes, providing gifts to charities, relatives, and friends that would be likely recipients. The court may authorize the guardian to make gifts of income or principal, convey or release property interests, release or disclaim his or her powers as trustee, exercise powers of appointment, enter into contracts, exercise security options, administer insurance policies, annuities, investments and pensions. Exercise the right to claim or disclaim an elective share in the estate of a deceased spouse and to renounce any interest by testate or intestate succession. To change the wards resident or domicile, modified by means of codicil or trust amendment, the terms of the revokable trust and as the court may deem advisable."

"Representative Wennlund."

"To the Bill, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I urge you all to listen to what's being done here. Listen to what's being done here. This will come back to 'bite' you. This lets the guardian of a ward make gifts of income or principal. He can convey and release property interests, including marital property, on behalf of the ward. Changes estate plan, in effect, determining the disposition of his assets. You're going to allow a guardian to exercise all of those powers on behalf of a ward, including how his assets are going to be disposed of? He can administer insurance policies, annuities, investments, create revokable or irrevocable trusts? Well, wait a minute, you know if he can change an estate plan that this ward had that might have been in effect prior to the time he became a ward, you're going to give the guardian the authority to do that after a judge says, 'Look, you can go ahead and 97  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 make changes if you think it's in the ward's best interest.' Well, you're giving one individual the power that the ward once had and the ward evidently when he adopted that plan or his original estate plan or a living trust or whatever, gets it changed on him. This is bad legislation. This is the stuff that can come back to 'bite' you when you find out that a relative's guardian changed an estate plan that has...."

"Excuse me, Representative Wennlund, bring your remarks to a conclusion, please. Representative Wennlund, proceed."

"Thank you. This is bad legislation and it is bad public policy to allow a guardian to change an estate plan for a ward. This legislation ought to be studied and studied further before it's voted out of this House and everybody ought to take note of it. It goes a lot farther than what you think."

"Is there any further discussion on the Lady's Motion? Seeing none, Representative Biggert to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Bill really addresses a ward who has become disabled and is unable to take care of his affairs or has died. It usually is the case where a person has come into an amount of money, has not been able to make the estate plan. That we all should have somebody to make our estate plan after we are gone, would be nice, but that doesn't happen. This is only to be done with the authority of the probate court, in accord with the wishes with the ward and I would ask for 'do passage'."

"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 1527 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye'; opposed vote 'nay'. Voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. 98  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 71 voting 'aye', 12 voting 'nay', 32 voting 'present'. This Bill having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk on House Calendar Supplemental #1 appears on the order of concurrence appears House Bill 3451. Please read the Bill."

Clerk McLennand: "House Bill 3451 has been approved for consideration."

"On that the Gentleman Representative Bost is recognized." from Jackson,

"Thank you Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. On House Bill 3451, Senate Amendment #1 and 2 would move to concur. And on the Senate Amendment just on."

"The Gentleman has moved to concur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3451. Now on that is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart."

"Thank you, would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative can you explain to us what is in Amendment #1 that you're asking us to concur with?"

"Representative Bost."

"Yes Representative, Amendment #1 basically says that if a person who is incarcerated in the State of Illinois earns the amount of credit hours through education and earns a degree above a bachelor degree in the State of Illinois he shall reimburse the State of Illinois after leaving his time if incarceration."

"Representative Dart."

"Is there an estimate on the amount of money this would save the state?"

"Representative Bost."

"The estimation is $10,313,397,130 at this time." 99  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

"Representative Dart." May 14, 1996

"And what is the enforcement mechanism, what happens if he does not pay?"

"Representative Bost."

"It would be like any other student loan they would have any means necessary to collect those loans."

"Representative Dart."

"Can we send them to jail?"

"Representative Bost."

"There is no debtors prison, no.

"Representative Dart."

"Nothing further."

"Further discussion the Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, will the Gentleman yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"On Senate Amendment #2 Representative can you briefly describe what is entailed in Senate Amendment #2?"

"Representative Bost."

"Yes, Senate Amendment #2 basically takes the language that was used in the Bill and deletes the part of 'no magazines or periodicals.' Basically it was discussed in the Senate there was some problems with it and they went ahead and took it out and I am moving to concur with that."

"Representative Granberg."

"Will this make it mandatory that they cannot purchase those materials or would this be in the purview of the Department?"

"Representative Bost."

"No, no it does not make it mandatory."

"Representative Granberg."

"So we are going to let the Department have the 100  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 discretion whether to have these magazines in the institution?"

"Representative Bost."

"That is correct."

"Representative Granberg."

"Much like we gave the Department the discretion to take curtains down or not?"

"Representative Bost."

"They don't have discretion in that."

"Representative Granberg."

"Well why don't we make it mandatory, not subject to the Department? Not subject to Odie Washington and his preferential treatment for inmates?"

"Representative Bost."

"There is a question of some religious, religious and first Amendment freedoms."

"Representative Granberg."

"So why don't we just prohibit the distribution of pornographic materials and other materials that are not appropriate in these institutions?"

"Representative Bost."

"They did concur with that."

"Representative Granberg."

"Why don't we make it mandatory that they can't receive these materials while they are incarcerated?"

"Representative Bost."

"I'm sorry I could not hear the question. Could you repeat the question please?"

"Representative Granberg, please repeat the question."

"Why don't we make it mandatory that these prisoners can't receive pornographics material when they are in 101  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day Menard?"

"Representative Bost." May 14, 1996

"That is currently the underlying Bill. This removes the periodicals."

"Representative Granberg."

"Well why don't we take the discretion away from the Department? That is the Amendment."

"Representative Bost."

"It, it is the same thing that we voted out of here earlier except we have went ahead and allowed the periodicals to be at the discretion of the director."

"Representative Granberg."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would move to divide the question on the concurrence on Senate Amendments on 1 and 2."

"Representative Granberg I'm sorry that your time expired, but you were making a Motion. Would you repeat your Motion?"

"Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would move that we take these Amendments separately on the Motion to concur and I would ask for a Roll Call Vote."

"Representative Granberg your Motion is in order and we will divide, your request has been granted. We will divide the question. Is it your understanding that we will now continue to debate and vote on Senate Amendment #1? Is that your understanding Representative Granberg?"

"Thank you Mr. Speaker. We want more time on Senate Amendment #2. That is the subject matter of this debate at this point."

"Representative Bost, what is your pleasure on the Bill?"

"Mr. Speaker I move to take this Bill out of the record." 102  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

May 14, 1996 "The Gentleman has asked to take the Bill out of the record, and the request has been granted. Mr. Clerk on page two of the Calendar House Bills, excuse me Senate Bills Third Reading appears Senate Bill 826. Please read the Bill."

"Senate Bill 826, a Bill for an Act Amending the Regional Transportation Authority Act, Third Reading of this Senate Bill."

"And on that question the Gentleman from Will, Representative Wennlund."

"Thank you Mr. Speaker. This Bill came out of the Transportation Committee unanimously 28 to 0. What it does is, it provides that the RTA and its service boards, Metra, Pace, and the CTA can use the design build concept for building large transportation facilities. Those in excess of $15 million. What it does, it permits the RTA and its service boards to use the same concept that was used to build the Harold Washington Library. It was used to build a new state library. It was used to build an addition to McCormick Place, and many other facilities. The CTA currently has this authority but Metra and Pace do not. Metra is about to undertake the rebuilding of the Weldon Yard in the city of Chicago which is a $90 million project. It will save time at least 18 months to two years on every project that are large projects and it will also save money. How the process works is basically it permits the RTA for instance, to issue your requests for proposals on some initial specification. And then select like five teams who will then submit proposals for a design build. Where they have the architect and the contractor as one team submitting one proposal and so the construction can proceed from the initial design specifications, even though 103  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 the remainder of the project has not yet been finally designed and planned for. They can order materials. It will save money for the taxpayers of Illinois. It will save money for the RTA and its service organizations as it has saved money for the CTA in the past, as it saved money in Harold Washington Library, McCormick Place, and other large facilities that currently used this type of process. It avoids the whole delay in having to go to bid first of all on a architect, then have to go to bid on the actual contractor. This allows the project to start immediately like the Weldon Yard which needs to be built in a hurry. It is a ailing facility. It was built in 1926 and it is going to cost $90 million bucks to redo it. It is a good concept. It will save the state of Illinois money. It will save the RTA money, Pace money, and all the Metro service boards and I ask for its adoption."

"You heard the Gentlemans Motion and on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang is recognized."

"I would like to yield my time to Representative Dart."

"I did not recognize you for that purpose. Is there any further discussion? Ah, there is his light. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dart."

"Thank you, would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates that he would be delighted."

"Representative you were talking about the cost savings involved with this. My understanding is that it would take it down from a three step process to a two step process? Is that correct?"

"Representative Wennlund."

"Basically to a one step process. After for instance the RTA, or the CTA, the way the CTA currently does it. The CTA now today because they have the authority to do it 104  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 what they do now is they issue some initial specifications they then ask for some RFP'S from a some builder, engineering architectural teams a who then submit proposals and the board, the CTA determines if they are going to take five proposals from teams and they select the lowest amount and then the project starts proceeding from that point forward. So it is really one process and that saves all the time. They can order materials. They can be engineering and doing the architectural work while building is proceeding on the foundation for instance, like for Weldon Yard."

"Representative Dart."

"Has there been any type of analysis done to show that the way that the CTA does it, the way that you have explained it seems to make sense. But has there been any analysis done to show the way the CTA has been doing it is, in fact, saving money as opposed to the way RTA is doing it?"

"Representative Wennlund."

"Yes, which is why the RTA wants to expand it to PACE and to Metra for these large transportation facilities. The Harold Washington Library, basically two years was cut off in the construction process of building the library. It saved interest. It saved money because they came up with proposals based on a team of a contractor and a architect who together could, can figure when they built the Harold Washington Library how to save money. If you have been there you know that it is a beautiful facility that they brought in under cost and they saved two years in the process."

"Representative Dart."

"Representative was there any opposition to this Bill in Committee?" 105  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996

"Representative Wennlund."

"Absolutely none. I know of no known opposition whatsoever."

"Representative Dart."

"And is this an agreement now between the architects and the builders, is that it?"

"Representative Wennlund."

"Yes it is."

"Representative Dart."

"No further questions."

"Further discussion on this motion before us, the Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino."

"Thank you Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates that he will."

"Representative when this Bill was up in Executive Committee there were some questions or some opposition originally from the construction industry and I think it was a question on basically who would be overseeing it.

"Representative Wennlund."

"Yes it has. The original Bill would have allowed Metra to come up with some rules in effect and that has all been removed it and everything is set forth in the statute, Representative Mautino. It has all been taken care of and is all in agreement now."

"Representative Mautino."

"Thank you, I don't have any further questions."

"No one seeking recognization. Representative Wennlund to close."

"Thank you Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman of the House. This is a good government Bill that has proven to save the taxpayers money and time in building major projects like McCormick Place addition, like the Harold 106  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 Washington Library, the State Library, other large facilities that the CTA has proven it saves time and money for the taxpayers and it improves the entire transportation network and I ask for it's favorable vote."

"The question is shall Senate Bill 826 pass? All those in favor vote 'aye'; oppose vote 'nay'. Voting. is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk take the record. On this question there are 116 voting 'aye'; 0 voting 'nay' and 1 voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk on House Calendar Supplemental #1 appears House Bill 3451. Please read the Bill."

Clerk Rossi: "House Bill 3451 has been approved for consideration."

"Representative Granberg, Representative Granberg we are back to this Bill. Do you still want the question divided on the Amendments, correct?"

"Yes, Mr. Speaker on all three Amendments."

"We will proceed, we will proceed on the order of concurrence at this time with Senate Amendment #1. To concur Representative, the Gentleman from Jackson, Representative Bost, on Senate Amendment #1 on a motion to concur."

"Thank you Mr. Speaker. I think we debated this a while ago and I think people understand what it does. I would just ask for your favorable vote."

"On that is there any discussion? The Gentleman from McHenry, Representative Skinner."

"I would like to know if the Amendment has been printed and distributed?"

"Mr. Clerk, has this Amendment been printed and 107  130th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 14, 1996 distributed or does it appear on the system? Mr. Clerk?"

"The Amendment is on the system."

"Representative Skinner does that answer your question?"

"Well have we changed the rules?"

"The Parliamentarian advises me that the rules do provide for the electronic distribution of Amendments. Representative Skinner."

"How do we know how long? Is the requirement that it still be on the desk for a certain number of minutes, hours or seconds? And if so, how do we figure out how many minutes it has been in our machine?"

"Let us take your question under advisement. Representative Skinner the Parliamentarian says that in his opinion you are not adopting this Amendment, that the Amendment has been out there for some time. You are concurring in an Amendment that was adopted in the Senate. Which makes it a little bit different than what you are saying about a House Amendment or a Floor Amendment, is that a satisfactory answer to you?"

"Well it is always hard for you to remember rules that you have not used for 12 months. I thought that was not supposed to be funny. I was talking about the end of the Session procedure. Don't these have to on our desks, or in our machines for an hour? And it won't make any difference here perhaps, but in the future I just have this little inkling that it might be a significant question."

"Representative the Amendment was adopted in the Senate and has been on the LIS system the minute it was adopted in the Senate. This Amendment originated in the Senate, not the House. Proceed Representative Skinner."

"Well, those documents that are adopted in the Senate 108  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 that come over here for concurrence are still supposed to be printed and distributed. Now you are telling me is as soon as it is adopted in the Senate the time starts to run over here, that it is on our desk automatically, because it is here electronically?"

"The Parliamentarian informs me that the answer to your question is yes. Representative Skinner."

"Then we shouldn't be surprised if we have instant, or as soon as something comes to this House we can have instant action on it with no time to think about it whatsoever, or if we haven't updated our computer recently we might not even know it is there."

"Well I would certainly hope not, but this was adopted in the Senate and it has been on the system for some time. Further questions Representative Skinner?"

"Well I, I sense that I will have further questions when something controversial comes up that Members of the other side agree with some Members on this side that they haven't seen before it pops up on the board."

"Thank you. Discussion on the Gentlemans motion to concur in Senate Amendment #1. Discussion on his motion to concur, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Pugh."

"Thank you Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He indicates that he will."

"The motion to concur, could you explain the Amendment?"

"Representative Bost."

"The Amendment basically says that if a person is incarcerated and they are attending the classes provided through the Department of Corrections, if they receive enough credit hours to receive a bachelor or a larger degree which does not include the vocational degrees or a 109  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 GED, they will be required for those degrees Bachelor and above to reimburse the State of Illinois or the Department of Corrections for the amount of cost that were incurred while they were trying to achieve that education."

"Representative Pugh."

"Sir, could you explain to me the rationale or the reasoning behind this piece of legislation?"

"Representative Bost."

"Yes I can. I thank you for the opportunity to do that. In a time when many of the people of the State of Illinois cannot afford to send there children to college, at a time when we work very hard to educate our children, at a time when middle income people if they have two children sometimes have to decide which child they are sending to school and which child they are not or how they are going to gain enough money to send a child to school. We don't think it is right for someone to go to prison and receive a degree at no cost. I mean, I know that our Department of Corrections wants to make sure that when those people leave Corrections that they can actively pursue a career in society. We want to do that in every way that we can, but we do not want to pay or give them a free ride because they are in the prison system, when many others are out there having to pay for these educations."

"Representative Pugh."

"So, so you would also be in favor of not allowing these individuals three square meals a day. I mean if you are saying that some people can't send there children to college. A lot of people cannot send there children to college sir, but I humbly submit to you that the purpose of the Department of Corrections is to provide incentives that would allow an individuals the opportunity to become a tax 110  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 productive citizen. If we are in the business of taking away or administrating the role of the Department of Corrections then we eventually begin to defeat the purpose of the department, Sir. Let me, let me tell you once an individual is incarcerated what would you, what would you expect, what would you like to see an individual do instead of go to school to receive a degree? Is there an alternative to receiving an education? Is there an alternative to an individual to bettering himself using the opportunity to a be resubmitted or reinstituted into society, rehabilitated?"

"A, Representative Bost if there was a question in there you might want to answer that."

"There is ample opportunity and this does not take the opportunity away. This still provides them vocational training, it still provides them with GED at no cost. It still provides them with a chance to achieve that education, that degree. But it does require them to be like any other student in the fact that they, when they have completed that time and they have completed that training, they have to pay for that education."

"Representative Pugh."

"How do you suggest that they pay? If you take into account that an individual has been incarcerated for "X" amount of years. or days, or months a particularly when you go to a institution you have to have at least a year. How do you expect an individual to pay for the cost of his education when most of the time he has, and statistics state Sir, that 80% of all people that are incarcerated, are incarcerated as a result of drugs, as a result of drug addictions. How do you expect an individual that is in, in." 111  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996

"Yes, Representative Pugh, Representative Pugh your time has expired. Bring your questioning to a conclusion, please."

"How would you suggest an individual that is currently in prison as a result of hardships that he has within the community, of providing for his needs to pay for incarceration and what happens if he cannot pay?"

"Representative Bost."

"I would say to that question, the exact same way that if a person is not incarceration, is not incarcerated pays for their education, when they have received a student loan, they complete their education. With that degree they go out and go to work in that field where they have received that degree and then through the series of earning pay for that diploma which they have earned, they will pay back those people that paid there initial cost of that education. In this case, the State of Illinois."

"Further discussion on the Gentlemans motion, the Lady from Cook, Representative Currie."

"Thank you Speaker, will the Sponsor yield to a couple of questions?"

"He indicates that he will."

"First of all can you tell me how many, how many inmates in any given year in our prison population earn an advanced degree?"

"Representative Bost."

"Currently there are 97 hundred in the system, in the system. That doesn't mean, I don't have the numbers on the exact degree every year."

"Representative Currie."

"And who provides them with the advanced education?"

"Representative Bost." 112  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

"The Department of Corrections."

"Representative Currie." May 14, 1996

"Through a contract with a local college, or with individual faculty members?"

"Representative Bost."

"Yes, quite often it is through your local colleges, yes."

"Representative Currie."

"And can I ask you why the Department of Corrections is opposed to this Amendment?"

"Representative Bost."

"The Department of Corrections."

"Representative Bost, have you concluded your?"

"Can you repeat the question?"

"Representative Currie, can you repeat your question please?"

"Yes, I would be happy to. Can you tell me why the Department of Corrections does not support Senate Amendment #1?"

"Representative Bost."

"I am not certain of the answer on that."

"Representative Currie."

"To the Bill Speaker and Members of the House to the Amendment, the concurrence motion. I am sure that the Sponsor is well-intentioned and we appreciate the point that we like people to take responsibility for the work that they do, the education they enjoy and all the rest. But I think that this Amendment would move our prison system in the wrong direction. I think it is good public policy for us to encourage people who are incarcerated to continue their education, even to the point of earning a Bachelors Degree or Associates of Arts Degree. I think it is more likely that those people will be contributing 113  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 members of society when they come out of prison at the end of there sentence. And most of them, of course, will do just that. I think to require them to reimburse with 6% interest is going to make them wonder whether if this college education has the kind of value that I think it has for them. They don't know how they are going to fare on the job market. In fact, there was a scandal just the other day, that perhaps some state agency were actually hiring people who had been convicted of felonies but had served their terms. I think the people who come out of our correctional institutions have a hard time making it in the honest, straight world. I think those who have learned more are in a marginally better position to find gainful employment at the end of the day and a requirement that means that if they don't, they are stuck with substantial bills is not a way to encourage people in prison to take real responsibility for there own lives and their own future success. I know you think that you are doing us all a favor by recapturing these few dollars. I think the reason the Department of Corrections opposes this measure is first, because administratively it is going to be very costly to collect these shekels and second as a matter of public policy it will discourage people in the prison system from pursuing an education. I don't think any of us should want to do that and I urge a 'no' vote on the concurrence motion on Senate Amendment 1."

"Further discussion on the Gentleman's motion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Eugene Moore." Moore, Eugene: "Mr. Speaker I will yield my time to Representative Coy Pugh."

"Representative Pugh are you seeking additional time?" 114  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

"Yes sir, thank you very much."

"Proceed." May 14, 1996

"Thank you very much Representative Moore for your time. Representative if we're, if the Department of Corrections is in the business to reduce recidivism, deter crime and to insure the safety of a community, why in heavens name would we as Legislators do anything to offer a disincentive to an individual who has possibly been incarcerated a and and at some point seen the ill in his ways, has sought remorse, and begun to try to better himself so that he can be reintegrated into society and become a taxpaying citizen."

"Representative Bost."

"Representative, the thing that we need to keep remembering in this debate is, this does not stop them from receiving the degree. It simply says that upon completion of the degree and upon completion of your time of being incarcerated you will repay the loan just like any other student."

"Representative Pugh."

"Sir, let me give you a real life example. We have an individual that has served five years out of his life in prison. This individual is released from prison with $50 and a bus ticket home. Fifty dollars and a bus ticket home. You expect an individual with $50 and a bus ticket home to go out and he already has an 'X' on his back from being a convict. You expect him to go out and find a meaningful employment. Employment enough to feed himself. Employment enough to maybe take care of his family and pay back a student loan? I submit to you, Sir that you are putting another burden on this individual that's going to cause him to be reinstituted into the prison system. You 115  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 are not giving him an opportunity. You are not giving him a chance to become a productive citizen. You are putting another hindrance to him becoming a productive citizen, Sir. If they time and time again an individual might have the opportunity to come out and receive a job working in a fast food restaurant. Might receive a job working as a maintenance man. Might receive a job paying minimum wage driving a bus. How can he support himself? How can he support a family and pay back a student loan?"

"Representative Bost."

"Representative, I represent an area that has SIU Carbondale in it. And unless those students that graduate come from a very wealthy family and quite often they are required to support themselves. Sometimes when they leave college they don't have more than $50. There is no guarantee that they are going to go out and find a job with the degree that they have. And they still have to pay their loans back. This legislation simply puts everyone on the same playing field. It does not, otherwise, the encouragement there is no incentive for those people that are on very close incomes that are not incarcerated. They see other people that can go in and get an education because they have committed a crime. What kind of message is that sending to our young people?"

"Representative Pugh."

"Sir, I don't know if you are in the business of sending messages or the business of creating good government. I am in the business of creating good government and I submit to you Sir that this is not a good government piece of legislation. This is by any, by any stretch of imagination a subterfuge. It serves no purpose Sir. There is not, there is not a handful of individuals that would come out, 116  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 and who would they pay? Would they pay the monies back to the prison system? There is a hand full of individuals that would come out with college degrees and that would compete with the job, for jobs at the people at SIU Carbondale. If your, if your purpose is to stop or to a calls for these individuals not to compete with the college student."

"Representative Pugh your time has expired please bring your remarks to a close."

"Sir, I submit to you that this piece of legislation is on the verge of, of nonsense. It serves no sense of real purpose. It serves as a disincentive. It smacks in the face of rehabilitation which the prison system was designed to do. I submit to you that also the Department of Corrections is against this piece of legislation. I strongly oppose it and I request that everybody else oppose it and I humbly do request the Roll Call Vote. Mr. Speaker."

"Further discussion, the Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Leitch."

"Thank you Mr. Speaker I would like to move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved the previous question. And on that the motion is, 'Shall the main question be put?'."

"Thank you Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, the former Speaker referred to the fact that we should pass good government. I say we should pass better government, and this is better government. It gives responsibility back to those who need to be responsible. I would ask for your 'aye' vote."

"The question is shall the House concur with 117  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 Senate Amendment 1 to House Bill 3451? All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; all those opposed will signify by voting 'nay'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 87 voting 'aye'; 30 voting 'nay'. The House does concur with Senate Amendment #1 to House Bill 3451. Now we will proceed, now we will proceed with Representative Bost on a motion to concur with Senate Amendment #2. Representative Bost."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Senate Amendment #2, we were discussing earlier. I'd be glad to answer any other questions."

"Discussion on the Gentleman's Motion to concur with Senate Amendment #2. And on that, the Gentleman from Clinton, Representative Granberg."

"Thank you. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Bost, the underlying Bill provides that certain periodicals shall not come into our state institutions, and should not be made available to those people who are housed in our state institutions. Senate Amendment #2 deletes that language. Is that not correct?"

"Representative Bost."

"Representative, it deletes the periodicals that the language which includes the periodicals."

"Representative Granberg."

"The underlying Bill prohibits or gives the director the ability to prohibit materials from coming into the institutions for the convicts. Your Amendment, that you are motioning to concur, removes that prohibition. You are removing the language in the Bill." 118  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996

"Representative Bost."

"Representative, it still puts the prohibition that can be in place on pornographic material. But, it does allow periodicals."

"Representative Granberg."

"Representative, let me read this to you. 'No magazines or periodicals shall be purchased by this state for use of committed persons, unless the magazines are periodicals or primarily devoted to news or related to vocational programs available to committed persons.' Your Amendment, that you are having this Motion to concur in deleting all of that. That deletes all the ability to keep these materials out of the prisons. So, you're going to allow the prisoners that you railed against to have all these materials. Isn't that correct?"

"Representative Bost."

"They can receive the material, but it is still up to the director, if he would like to remove it."

"Representative Granberg."

"Why are we, why are you wanting to allow these people, who are incarcerated, to have these periodicals and mailings that may not be related to their vocational education or anything else? You're trying to take away these readings from them. You're actually trying to give it back to them. The version of the Bill that was over in the Senate was much tougher. Now, you're weakening it to allow these materials to go back to these prisoners. Why would you do that?"

"Representative Bost."

"Because, in the debate in the Senate, when this came up, to my understanding that there was a question on these periodicals whether that could be of religious material and 119  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 things of that nature. And that would have fallen under the freedom of speech and the questions that way and therefore, at the director's request, the Senate Sponsor carried this Amendment and the underlying Bill is still of such good quality if we concur with this that we will still be gaining ground."

"Representative Granberg."

"Why would we not prohibit pornographic materials from being used in our state institutions for the benefit of prisoners? Why are we leaving it in the discretion of the rector(sic-director), because obviously, he let Richard Speck make a video. He let other people make videos. Why don't we just abolish it and not permit any pornographic materials in our institutions?"

"Representative Bost."

"The line that is still part of the main Bill, 'a committed person may not receive any materials that the director deems pornographic'."

"Representative Granberg."

"Why don't we take it away from the director? He did such a good job with the curtains, and I heard you speak about how important that was on the Bill you picked up a day before, last week just so you can get tough on crime. Why don't we do it now and take the discretion away."

"Representative Bost."

"Someone has to define pornographic."

"Representative Granberg."

"Last week, you picked up Representative Cross's Bill. You put an Amendment on it to take away the curtains, because you went into this tirade about the director having too much discretion. Why don't we be consistent? Why don't we do that right now? Why don't we increase the 120  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 staff at our prisons? Why don't we take the discretion away from the director because the gangs are running our prisons, Representative? And by doing this, we're giving them more discretion, and that's not in the best interests of the people of the state. You're giving the gangs all the power. Why do you want to do that? Why don't we start taking the discretion away from the department?"

"Representative Bost. Was that a question in there somewhere?"

"If this was as dangerous as curtains, we'd probably work on that. But, as it is, the director still has some power, and this allows him the opportunity to decide what is pornographic material, and what is not."

"Representative Granberg, I've given you some additional time. Your time has expired. Will you please bring your questioning to a conclusion?"

"Did you ask the director if he watched the Richard Speck video? Does he not think that's pornographic?"

"Representative Bost."

"I've not talked to the director about that issue."

"Representative Granberg."

"Well, why don't we take away the discretion from the director? Why don't we just prohibit it, Representative? We can do that. Why do we want these other materials coming into our institutions? Why do we want to water this Bill down? Why don't we make it tougher? Why don't we make it tougher for the people of the state? Why don't we take the discretion away from the director, because obviously, they don't know what they're doing?"

"Representative Bost, you have six seconds to respond."

"I think we've taken..." 121  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996

"Further discussion on the Gentleman's Motion. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Pugh."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, can you tell me who paid for Richard Speck to have a breast implant?"

"Representative Bost."

"I don't think that has anything to do with the Bill, and no, I don't have any answer for that either."

"Representative Pugh."

"Just trying. Representative, can you tell me who was responsible...who was behind the prostitution ring that was recently uncovered at Dixon prison?"

"Representative Pugh, I'm giving you a little bit of leeway, but that has nothing to do with the Bill. Would you care to rephrase your question? Rephrase your question. Representative Pugh, I have given you all the leeway I'm going to give you. Mr. Pugh, when I am in the Chair, I will construe a question. Now, either confine your remarks to the Bill, or I will not recognize you. It's your choice. It is your choice. You will confine your questions to the Bill. If you wish to question the Sponsor, proceed."

"Would I be safe in assuming you're not going to answer my question?"

"There was no question there. Do you have a question."

"There was a question."

"Do you have a question of the Sponsor? Do you have a question of the Sponsor?"

"The record will reflect that there was a question. How can you say that there was not a question?" 122  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996

"Do you have a question of the Sponsor?"

"Mr. Speaker, I'm making a point. We're talking about pornographic material not being allowed in the prisons. But, we can allow pornographic material to be allowed in the men's washroom. We can allow pornographic and prostitution to take place. We can allow pornographic material and prostitution to take place in Dixon prison, but we cannot allow prisoners, who have no other form of release to have pornographic material. We've taken away, we've taken away, we've taken away their curtains so if they wanted to use their pornographic material behind the curtains SO that the guards could take pictures of them with their video cameras, so that it can be sold on 60 Minutes. But, no, we don't want prisoners to be educated. We don't want prisoners to go to school. But, we want prisoners not to have curtains. We want them not to have pornographic materials. I submit to you, Sir, that it is not our job to administrate the Department of Corrections activities. Can you tell me, Sir, who in the department will be responsible for reviewing the mail to determine which books or which materials are pornographic and which materials aren't? Is it the same administration that is responsible for the prostitution at Dixon? Who's going to be responsible for going through the mail?"

"Representative Bost, on the question of responsibility."

"Who the director gives that authority to."

"Representative Pugh."

"I'm sorry. I didn't hear your response."

"Representative Bost, please repeat your answer."

"A committed person may not receive any materials that the director deems pornographic." 123  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day

"Representative Pugh." May 14, 1996

"Are you saying that the director of the Department of Corrections, who is responsible for 36,000 inmates is going to be sitting there going through the mail of 36,000 inmates?"

"Representative Bost."

"Our director has the ability to delegate authority, and that still allows him to do that."

"Representative Pugh."

"But, that's not what the Bill states. The Bill says that the director has the responsibility, and the question was...Mr. Chairman, would you repeat the question? The question was of responsibility, and if your Bill states the the responsibility is that of the director's, then I submit to you, Sir, that it is not possible for the director to take on that responsibility."

"Is that a question, Representative? I believe you said that you don't think the director is responsible. So, is that a question?"

"My question was, who would have the responsibility of going through the 36,000 inmates' mail, to determine which materials are pornographic and which are not?"

"Representative Bost."

"The director..."

"Proceed, Representative Bost."

"The director can set policies, and then have his people that he administrates put those policies in place. But, he will be the final person responsible."

"Representative Pugh."

"Last question, Sir. Can you tell me, Representative Bost, what's the purpose, the mandate with the auditor general is responsible for making sure that there's no duplication in 124  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 laws, and that kind of thing? Can you tell me the purpose, why the Department of Corrections was established, and this role, their role and responsibilities to the State of Illinois?"

"Representative Bost."

"Please repeat the question. I'm sorry, I couldn't hear it."

"The role, the purpose, and the objective of the Department of Corrections. Can you tell me what the purpose, the role, and the objective of the Department of Corrections is?"

"Representative Bost, the time is expired. Do you care to answer the question?"

"To keep dangerous prisoners away from the citizens of the State of Illinois, and to rehabilitate."

"Further discussion. The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson." Johnson, Tim: "I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved the previous question. The motion is, shall the main question be put? All those in favor, signify by saying 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The main question is put. Representative Bost to close on Senate Amendment #2."

"I ask for your favorable vote."

"The question is 'Shall the House concur with Senate Amendment #2 to House Bill 3451?' All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'nay'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 89 voting 'aye', 22 voting 'nay', 3 voting 'present'. The House does 125  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day concur with Senate Amendment #2 to House Bill 3451. Representative Bost on Senate Amendment #3 to House Bill 3451."

"Mr. Speaker I move that the House nonconcur with Senate Amendment #3 to House Bill 3451."

"The Gentleman has moved to nonconcur to Senate Amendment #3 to House Bill 3451. All those in favor say 'aye'; opposed 'nay' and in the opinion of the chair the 'ayes' have it. The House does nonconcur in Senate Amendment #3 to House Bill 3451. Mr. Clerk are there any announcements?"

"No announcements."

"Representative Churchill now moves that the House stand Adjourned until Wednesday, May 15, 1996 at the hour of 12 noon. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye'; opposed 'nay' in the opinion of the chair the 'ayes' have it and allowing Perfunctory time for the Clerk. The House now stands Adjourned until Wednesday, May 15, 1996 at the hour of 12 noon."

"House perfunctory Session will now be in order. Introduction of Resolutions. House Joint Resolution #113 offered by Representative Kaszak referred to the Rules Committee. Messages from the Senate. Message from Jim Harry, Secretary to the Senate. 'Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has refused to concur with the House on the Adoption of the Amendment. In the Adoption of their Amendment to a Bill to the following title Senate Bill #825 with House Amendment #1. Action taken by the Senate May 14th. Also directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has concurred with the House in the passage of House Bill 739 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill #1684 126  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 130th Legislative Day May 14, 1996 together with Senate Amendments #1 and 2. House Bill #2515 together with Senate Amendments #1 and 3. House Bill #3426 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill #3436 together with Senate Amendments #1,2,3,4 and 5. House Bill #3662 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill #3670 together with Senate Amendment #1. House Bill #2651 together with Senate Amendment #1 and House Bill #3396 and House Bill #3199.' Being no further business House Perfunctory Session stands Adjourned. The House will reconvene in full Session on Wednesday, May 15, at the hour of 12 noon." 127  REPORT: TIFLDAY PAGE: 001 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX MAY 14, 1996 97/04/08 09:37:18 HB-0270 CONFERENCE HB-0379 CONCURRENCE HB-1286 CONCURRENCE HB-2406 NON-CONCURRENCE PAGE 15 PAGE 4 PAGE 7 PAGE 34 HB-2621 CONCURRENCE PAGE 89 HB-2799 CONCURRENCE PAGE 90 HB-3165 CONCURRENCE PAGE 8 HB-3233 CONCURRENCE PAGE 31 HB-3451 CONCURRENCE PAGE 107 HB-3451 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 99 HB-3510 CONCURRENCE PAGE 9 HB-3532 CONCURRENCE PAGE 88 HB-3578 CONCURRENCE PAGE 13 HB-3617 CONCURRENCE PAGE 83 SB-0026 THIRD READING PAGE 65 SB-0067 SECOND READING PAGE 35 SB-0067 THIRD READING PAGE 45 SB-0826 THIRD READING PAGE 103 SB-1260 HELD ON SECOND PAGE 36 SB-1261 HELD ON SECOND PAGE 36 SB-1263 HELD ON SECOND PAGE 36 SB-1456 SECOND READING PAGE 36 SB-1456 THIRD READING PAGE 38 SB-1467 SECOND READING PAGE 78 SB-1467 THIRD READING PAGE 79 SB-1527 SECOND READING PAGE 92 SB-1527 THIRD READING PAGE 95 SB-1759 THIRD READING PAGE 53 SB-1769 SECOND READING PAGE 42 SB-1922 HELD ON SECOND PAGE 44 HJR-0113 FILED PAGE 126 SUBJECT MATTER HOUSE PERFUNCTORY SESSION PAGE 1 PRAYER CLERK MCLENNAND PAGE 1 PLEDGE OF ALLEGAINCE TERRY COMBS PAGE 1 PERFUNCTORY SESSION ADJOURNED PAGE 1 HOUSE TO ORDER PAGE 1 SPEAKER DANIELS IN THE CHAIR PAGE 1 PRAYER PASTOR ROGER GRIMMETT. PAGE 1 PLEDGE OF ALLEGAINCE REPRESENTATIVE BRADY PAGE 2 ROLL CALL FOR ATTENDANCE PAGE 2 SUPPLEMENTAL CALENDAR #1 PAGE 4 GUEST CLASS A STATE VOLLEYBALL CHAMPIONS PAGE 4 REPRESENTATIVE WENNLUND IN THE CHAIR PAGE 17 GUESTS- MIDDLE SCHOOL PHYSICAL ED. FROM ROCKFALLS PAGE 30 GUEST- HENRY DALEY, TEACHER OF THE YEAR GLENWOOD PAGE 30 GUESTS PEOPLE FROM THE CULLEN SCHOOL PAGE 30 SPEAKER DANIELS IN THE CHAIR PAGE 59 REPRESENTATIVE BLACK IN THE CHAIR PAGE 78 HOUSE ADJOURNED PAGE 126 HOUSE PERFUNCTORY SESSION PAGE 126 MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE PAGE 126 HOUSE PERFUNCTORY SESSION ADJOURNED GUESTS- ELDORADO MIDDLE SCHOOL PAGE 126 PAGE 57