"The House will come to order. All Members, please be at their desks. We will be led in prayer today by Reverend Lee Arthur Crawford with the Victory Temple Church of God in Christ. The guests in the Gallery may wish to rise for the invocation. Reverend Crawford."
"Let us pray. Gracious and eternal God, we look to You as superior, for You are superior in wisdom, understanding, and knowledge. So, we ask that You look and smile on us this day as we look to You, for Your servant David said that he will lift his eyes to the hills from which cometh his help, for his help came from the Lord. So, as we look up and lift up our minds, lift up our hearts, lift up our souls for comfort, for wisdom, for understanding, and above all, for guidance throughout this day. This we kindly ask, Amen."
Speaker Brunsvold: "We will be led in pledge today by Representative Calvin Giles."
Giles - et al: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"Mr. Clerk, Roll Call for Attendance. Mr. Cross, for the Republican absentees."
"Mr. Speaker, thank you. We are all here on the Republican side, ready to go."
"Thank you, Mr. Cross. For the Democrats, Mr. Hartke."
"Looking around, I think that all Democrats are here, ready to do the work of the people and the kids of the State of Illinois."
"Thank you, Mr. Hartke. Mr. Clerk, take the record. There are 118 answering the Roll Call. We do have 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 a quorum. Mr. Clerk, Committee Reports."
"Representative Pugh, Chairman from the Committee on Human Services, to which the following Floor Amendments were referred, action taken on May 29, 1997, reported the same back with the following recommendation/s: 'be adopted' Floor Amendments 1, 2 and 3 to Senate Bill 600."
Speaker Brunsvold: "Mr. Clerk, House Bill 1327. Representative Clayton. Representative Clayton, the hour is growing late. On page five of the Calendar,under Resolutions, is House Resolution 112. Representative Connie Howard. Representative Howard."
"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Resolution, House Resolution 112, merely asks that the House of Representatives urge the National Government to continue funding for the Illinois' Lincoln Challenge Program. We need this program so that our young people within this state may continue to be afforded the opportunity to develop new and productive skills that will aid them in their future endeavors. As you know, Lincoln Challenge is located in Rantoul Illinois at the site of the former Chanute Air Force Base, and it is designed to help troubled young people of our state, through a voluntary program, where the participants reside at the site in Rantoul, and learn self-discipline and respect for both themselves and people they work with on a daily basis. I ask the consideration of this Body for its support of this Resolution."
Speaker Brunsvold: "The Lady has asked for the adoption of House Resolution #112. Is there any discussion? The question is, 'Shall the House adopt House Resolution 112?' All in favor say 'aye'; all opposed say 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it and House Resolution 112 is adopted. Mr. Clerk, Committee 2 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 Announcement."
Clerk Bolin: "The Rules Committee will meet immediately in the Speaker's Conference Room. The Rules Committee will meet immediately in the Speaker's Conference Room."
"Committee Report, Mr. Clerk."
Clerk Bolin: "Representative Currie, Chairman from the Committee on Rules, to which the following measures were referred, action taken on May 29, 1997, reported the same back recommend: 'be adopted' Conference Committee Report #1 to House Bill 1121, to concur with Senate Amendment 1 to House Bill 1375, Motions to recede House Amendment 1 to Senate Bill 218, House Amendment 1 to Senate Bill 551, and House Amendment 1 to Senate Bill 837."
Speaker Brunsvold: "Mr. Clerk, Supplemental Calendar Announcement."
"Supplemental Calendar #1 is being distributed."
"House Bill 1375, Representative Capparelli. Mr. Clerk, out of the record. Senate Bill 551, Mr. Schoenberg."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I move that the House recede from House Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 551. House Amendment #1, pertained to school counselors. The Senate has requested that this Amendment be removed. There's agreement on this issue and I ask that we recede from House Amendment #1, and urge your favorable consideration."
Speaker Brunsvold: "The Gentleman has moved to recede from House Amendment #1. And on that question, the Gentleman from Vermilion, Mr. Black."
"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"The Sponsor yields." 3 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997
"Representative, I recall in debate that it was indicated that the Senate Sponsor was in agreement with this Amendment. That is not the case evidently?"
"The Senate Sponsor was in agreement with a related issue, and after some discussion, had a change of heart, and so the Senate Sponsor has indeed asked that House Amendment #1 be withdrawn. And I'm happy to accommodate that request, as I'm happy to accommodate virtually any request from my Senator."
"May I compliment you on a very reasonable position. I stand in support of your Motion to Recede from this Amendment."
"Thank you, Sir."
"Thank you."
Speaker Brunsvold: "Further discussion? The question is, 'Shall the House recede from House Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 551?' This is final action. All in favor vote 'aye'; all opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. And on this question there are 116 voting 'yes'; 2 voting 'no'; 0 voting 'present'. And the House does recede from House Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 551. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 837, Mr. Morrow."
"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I recede from House Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 837."
"The Gentleman has moved to recede from the House Amendment. Is there any discussion? Seeing none, the question is, 'Shall the House recede from House Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 837?' This is final action. 4 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 All in favor vote 'aye'; all opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On that question, there are 118 voting 'yes'; 0 voting 'no'; 0 voting 'present'. And the House does recede from House Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 837. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 218, Mr. Art Turner." Turner, A.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Assembly. I'd like to recede from House Amendment 1 to Senate Bill 218."
"The Gentleman has moved to recede from House Amendment #1. And on that question, is there any discussion? Seeing none, the question is, 'Shall the House recede from House Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 218?' This is final action. All in favor vote 'aye'; all opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On that question, there are 118 voting 'yes'; 0 voting 'no'; 0 voting 'present'. And the House does recede from House Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 218. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, Senate Bill 645. The Lady from Cook, Representative Currie."
"Senate Bill 645. The Bill has been read a second time, previously. No Committee Amendments. Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Currie."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Currie."
"Thank you, Speaker and Members of the House. Floor Amendment 1 to Senate Bill 645 offers us the opportunity for an historic fundamental change in the way we fund school districts across the State of Illinois. It is no 5 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 surprise to anybody in this Chamber that some 6 to 700 thousand of our youngsters are going to schools that, no matter how high their individual property tax rates, are not able to provide funding that will give those children access to a quality education. We have, over the years, used new revenues to increase funding to public education in Illinois, but using that new revenue growth, we have slipped further and further behind in the share of support the state pays for public education in this state. While our neighbor states are moving to fund 50%, half of the cost of public education, we have slipped over the last 20 years from 48% to 32%. This Amendment offers us the opportunity to do three major and fundamental things: Increasing the income tax, providing the largest property tax break in the history of this state, and I would venture to say any other, will put much more reliance on general state taxes to fund public education and we will in addition solve the problem of underfunding in those property tax poor districts where 7 hundred thousand of our children do not today, have the opportunity to learn. The plan, simply put, would increase the income tax .75% to provide 9 hundred million dollars, 9 hundred million dollars in property tax relief. It would provide $614 million new dollars for public schools, targeting poverty dollars to the schools that have the largest numbers of poor children and making sure that districts across the state can reach the $42 hundred foundation level. In addition, there are reforms, substantial reforms, of the way we honor and work with the teaching profession in Illinois. Today, as you know, it takes two years to get tenure in the State of Illinois. Under this proposal, it will take four. It takes 35 bucks and a college degree to 6 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 become a certified teacher in Illinois, today. Under this Bill, it will take four years. This is a major change, a major change in the way we do the teaching business. And under this Bill, teachers will have to renew their certificates every five years, not just by sending a $4 check to the state, but by going through an evaluation and by showing that they have achieved professional development. I know there are some among you who think that there are other ways we can solve this problem in a fundamental way. I'm sorry to have to tell you, you're wrong. A mix of small taxes and a reliance on rosy revenue estimates in the future is just plain not going to do the job. If it were that easy, we'd have done it a long time ago. I am pleased to stand here in support of the Governor's program, a program that finally says, 'Yes, the state must step up to the plate. We have to do the job of making sure our kids, all of our kids, have access to a quality education.' We can do that with a small rise in the income tax and we can at the same time provide major property tax relief to our citizens. Approximately 28% of the property tax bill that goes to public education, we believe that's the number we're talking about. That's major property tax relief. I would be happy to answer your questions. I hope you'll join me and the Governor in stepping up to the plate, finally to do a job of restructuring the way we finance public education in the State of Illinois and fundamentally reforming the way we work with the teachers who teach our young."
Speaker Brunsvold: "Ladies and Gentleman of the House, this is a very important Bill. Let's have staff retire to the back of the Chamber, please, and give the debaters the opportunity to debate the Bill. Please let's have staffs 7 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 retire to the back of the Chamber and give your attention to the Ladies and Gentlemen that will be debating this very important issue. The Lady has asked for the adoption of Amendment #1. And on that question, the Gentleman from Kendall, Mr. Cross."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A couple of Inquiries of the Chair."
"State your Inquiry."
"In my reading of the Bill, the Amendment that we just received yesterday, as you're aware, on page 67, line 11, there is a continuing appropriation from the Common School Fund to the Public Teachers' Pension and Retirement Fund of Chicago. If I'm reading House Rule 22(b) correctly, provides that no Bill that provides for an appropriation of money from the state treasury may be considered for passage by the House unless it has first been favorably reported by an Appropriations Committee. Now, I understand this Bill went through the Revenue Committee yesterday. The Parliamentary Inquiry is, how this Bill, which contains an appropriation, got to the Floor going merely through the Revenue Committee and not an Appropriations Committee? That's my first Inquiry."
Speaker Brunsvold: "The Parliamentarian is checking on that. Would you like to state your second Inquiry, please?"
"Why don't we wait for this one if we can get an answer, then we'll go to number two, if that's possible? That's page 15 in the Rules, Mr. Speaker."
"Mr. Cross, the Parliamentarian would like to answer your first question."
Parliamentarian Kasper: "Representative Cross, Article IV, Section 8 of the State Constitution provides that there are three different types of Bills that are considered by the 8 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 General Assembly: Substantive Bills, Appropriations Bills and Revisory Bills. The Rule that you cited, applies to Appropriations Bills. This is not an Appropriation Bill, this is a Substantive Bill therefore, the Inquiry is out of order."
"Well, Mr. Speaker and Mr. Parliamentarian, with all due respect, if you look at this Bill that's been filed, this is a continuing Appropriation to the Chicago Teachers' Fund, $10 million a year. Now, if that's not an appropriation issue, I don't know what is an appropriation issue. I think we're inviting a lawsuit on this Bill. If that's your ruling, we will certainly abide by it. But, I want to caution all of us be careful for the lawsuit that is soon to come. The second Inquiry, and I refer to the Constitution, Article IV, Section 8, it states that Bills ...except Bills for Appropriations and for the codification revision or rearrangement of Bills shall be confined to one subject. Appropriation Bills shall be limited to the subject of Appropriations. Our Inquiry, the Parliamentary Inquiry, is why does this Bill, which contains more than an appropriation, why doesn't it violate this clause? Our reading of the Bill is that it creates ...it funds the pensions, it amends the School Code. We have academic reforms in here. It creates several forms of bureaucracy on new levels. How are we not violating this section of the Constitution?"
Parliamentarian Kasper: "Representative Cross, and this is in relation to your first Inquiry, as well. The clause of the Constitution that you cited refers to the differentiation between Substantive Bills and Appropriations Bills. And as the Supreme Court has interpreted that rule, under the case of _________________________ Benjamin v. Devin Bank, it simply provides that 9 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 Appropriations Bills, monies that actually approp... Bills that actually appropriate funds to various state agencies may not contain substantive provisions. As I said, in relation to your first Inquiry, this is a Substantive Bill and not an Appropriations Bill, therefore, this Bill does not violate that clause in the Constitution."
"But, this Bill deals with pensions, taxes, and schools. We have faced this issue, if you recall, some time ago when we dealt with the LUST Fund and the Sex Offender Registration Act, two separate issues within one Bill, and if I'm not mistaken, a judge in Cook County threw that Bill out and we had to come back before this General Assembly and address it. I hope we're not heading down the same path in the event this Bill passes, that we're going to be addressing it again in the Fall Veto Session because we've chosen to ignore the Constitution."
Parliamentarian Kasper: "In response to that question, Representative Cross, I believe that this Bill does not violate the single subject clause of the Constitution. This is... this instance, all of the measures that are contained in this Bill deal with the question of education funding in its broad sense. I believe that this substantially similar to the case of ___________________ Gay Haus Cafe v. Metropolitan Pier and __________________________________________ Exposition Authority, which contained provisions regarding taxes and other substantive areas. So, this is similarly related."
"Mr. Parliamentarian, I guess I fail to see the connection between the Pension Fund and children of the State of Illinois. Can you make that connection for us between the Pension Fund and the School Code along the same lines of what we were talking about? Mike, if I'm not mistaken, this Bill does fund on an annual basis, the Teachers' Fund 10 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 and Pension Fund in the City of Chicago, am I right? Ten million dollars a year?"
"That's correct. The provisions of the Pension Code..."
"Right."
Parlimentarian Kasper: "...relate to pension systems as to teachers, therefore, it is related to the question of education."
"Thank you for that connection or an attempt at one. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Monique Davis." Davis, M.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of this very timely legislation. For more than two decades, this Body has talked about refunding the method for funding education. According to the 1970 Constitution, the State of Illinois should be the primary source of funding for our schools, not property tax. This Bill, 645 (sic-Senate Bill), gives you that chance to change the way we fund education in the State of Illinois. For years, my suburban colleagues have cried, have wailed, have sought property tax relief. This Bill gives $9 hundred million in property tax relief. This is your chance to vote for property tax relief. For years, we've talked about the need to increase the state's share of educational funding and remove the onus from senior citizens and property tax. This Bill is your chance. This is your opportunity, Ladies and Gentlemen, to put your money where your mouth is. Back home in campaign rhetoric, we have said to people, we are going to bring home dollars for education. We have said to people, we are going to bring state dollars. We're going to take it away from property tax, place the onus on the 11 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 income tax, those who are working. This is your chance. Excuses, excuses, excuses. The time for excuses have run out. Either we're going to fund education and have value on every child in this state or we are going to continue to wail and whine about it. A child who lives in Rural Illinois will have an opportunity to have a basic foundation level for his education similar to some of those in more affluent communities. The young man who sits across from me, Tom Johnson's son, who's traveled all the way to Russia and is now visiting us, he deserves the best education no matter where he lives. His education should not be dependent upon where his house happens to be. If he lives in Chicago, in a Chicago project, he deserves an excellent education from the State of Illinois, just as he would if he came from DuPage County. Children from Rural Illinois deserve that foundation level beginning with $42 hundred and in four or five years, to go to $45 hundred. Senior citizens who have been retired a number of years, some of them over 20 years, receiving a pension from a company that may now be closed. They have no opportunity for an increase in that pension. And yet, we are expecting them to bear the burden of educational rising costs placed on their property tax. Ladies and Gentlemen, this may be your only chance in the next 10 years. The Governor has kept his word. He stood here before us in his Budget Address. He stood here before us in the State of the State Address. When I shook his hand, I said, 'Governor Edgar, don't forget education. Please, don't forget education.' And he shook his head. I congratulate him today and I thank Speaker Michael Madigan for being honest with the people of Illinois for caring about all the children. Ladies and Gentlemen, today is your chance." 12 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Mulligan."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"The Sponsor yields."
"Representative, we're told we're getting property tax relief in this Bill. How long will that property tax be rebated?"
"How long?"
"Yes."
"Under the terms of the Bill, in perpetuity, forever and ever. Because the way the Bill reads, the money that comes into the fund and the treasury from a portion of the income tax increase will be devoted to property tax relief. That amount will calculate how much property tax relief is available and the county clerks and assessors and treasurers will go ahead and do the abating. In fact, the property tax relief in this Bill, given that income taxes are rising today at a faster rate than property taxes, will grow over the years..."
"Well, my understanding is that the property tax relief will stay in effect until the assessment level reaches once again what it is now. So, in other words, my district will still be paying out eventually that same amount of property tax even though we're giving away a large amount of income tax. So, how can you say that that's not... that it's forever? I mean..."
"Because the statute says it is. The statute says we will take this percentage increase in the income tax, and its growth and that will be devoted to property tax relief, property tax relief for those dollars that we pay locally to public education. Not only will it continue, unless we change the statute, but it will grow over time. So, what today may be a 28% reduction in the property taxes you pay 13 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 for schools in four, five, or six years time, it could be 35 or 40% a reduction.
"How about the 'hold harmless'?"
"And as that happens, as that happens, the state support for financing public education will continue to grow. So under this Bill, the state moves from paying 32 cents on the dollar for public schools to 43 cents, 43% on the dollar ...43% of the cost will come to the state."
"That's really a big deal in my district when right now they pay three to seven cents on the dollar, and our property taxes have been paying for education for a long time. How long will the 'hold harmless' be in effect? My understanding from the Governor's dot points is one year or indefinite. Indefinite by my definition means, whenever."
"The 'hold harmless' will stay in effect until it is no longer needed. What will happen is that the first year about $20 million of the 614 million will go to 'hold harmless', those districts that otherwise would lose money because of the recalculation of the poverty dollars or because of the unweighting of the high school students. It is anticipated that the dollars to make those districts whole in year 2 would be about 12 million. The number would reduce to 9 million the following year, but the commitment in the Bill, is to continue to fund that difference until the districts have caught up to the new formulation."
"What happens if there is a recession?"
"What happens to what if there is a recession?"
"The amount of money that the state takes in, both in income tax and other areas. If there isn't the money there, will we suddenly have a General Assembly or a new Governor that votes not to do this any longer?" 14 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997
"Should the income tax receipts not grow as substantially as they have in the past, property tax relief would not grow as we anticipate it will, but it would not go away."
"To the Bill."
"Proceed."
"When I was elected to the General Assembly, I came with a premise that there were three things that I should do. Number one, I should vote to represent my district. I was elected from a district and not at-large. Number two, I should vote for statewide reforms or issues that would help my district. Number three, I would vote for state issues that are for the overall good, which I believe would also help my district. But there's a fourth issue here. The fourth issue is, do not vote to harm my district. My district, over the last several years has funded education themselves. We get 3 to 7% State Aid. My local district was one of the top 100 by Money Market _____________________ Magazine the last year for the bang for the buck on where we live. And I will tell you, we pay property taxes and my communities pay a lot for their houses, the same houses that cost a lot less in other parts of the state. In 1986 and 1987, we flooded. We live, in my district, next to O'Hare and next to the Des Plaines River. We were considered a disaster area. We have not been able to have our flood projects funded by the state. We have increasingly funded the state overall with our high income tax. Under this plan, $22 million will go out of income tax out of my district. The property tax relief that we will get will not necessarily be replaced in order to fund our schools. And since we fund our schools to a much higher level now, we certainly do not and will not be able to replace those monies to keep our schools at high levels. People that live next to 15 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 O'Hare Airport and the Des Plaines River do no pay a high price for a house and high property taxes because they like the airport noise or the flooding from the river. They pay a high price there because the school system is excellent. Our children go to college. My district, for a Republican District, has the highest number of immigrants. We fund people in non-speaking English languages in our school system. We pick up that tab ourself. We do not get the corresponding money back for poor people or people that are not being covered. We cover them, we take care of them. The immigrants move to our district because we give their children a good education. We pay a hospital tax. I have several hospitals in my district. That hospital tax went to cover disproportionate hospitals around the state. We fund those hospitals with our money. Private, not-for-profit hospitals with boards that put money into them. So, once again, our tax dollars go out over the state to help them. The amount of money that the new revenue brings in over, we expect $1 billion, is paid by people from my district by higher income tax and business money. That money once again goes out over the state to pay for other peoples' education while we fund our own. The high cost of housing for our teachers. We pay our teachers a good salary, sure, but it costs them a lot to live. The object of this plan, in March of 1996, was to raise an income tax. We expressed our concern over what it would do to our districts then. We have had a year plus to come up with a better plan that would not harm the districts that have substantially been funding the state for a long time. I came here with the idea that I wanted to help other children, but not at the expense of our own districts. Our homes will not be worth the money that they 16 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 were if our education system goes down. Our senior citizens who need property tax relief will not be able to sell those homes for probably four times what they paid for them. So, what good will property tax relief be if we can no longer fund our schools? My local school district had 780 students in one district that just moved in because of the roll-over in homes because young couples want to come to our district for the school system. We went out and passed a referendum on the first time to build a new school and to take care of that. I have another district that substantially struggles to keep up the scores because of the influx of immigrants and we take care of that ourselves. There is no way that I can support this Bill. I do not understand how anyone could come here and substantially harm other districts that have virtually been carrying the load for them for years and then say there is something wrong with what we are doing here. The Governor, the people, the experts we have, have had plenty of time to come up with an alternative program. When the Republicans have put forth two alternative programs that would substantially allow the same relief for the districts without raising income taxes, we were told that we did not have a good plan. Well, our plan is a good plan. Why should we give away all this money out of our district, have no local control, raise taxes, continue to fund the money? I have no problem with helping Human Services, but I cannot understand what's happening here when we have to raise all this extra money to fund a system that is essentially going to bankrupt people that have large mortgages, have two incomes to pay for them, to keep their kids in school that we've funded and then send our tax dollars across the state to fund other people. I urge a 17 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 'no' vote on this absolutely preposterous Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Parke. For what reason do you rise?"
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a Parliamentarian Inquiry."
"State your request."
"Yes. It is my understanding that Speaker Madigan has required that all pension legislation go through the Pension Laws Committee. Can you tell me why this portion of the Bill that dealt with the Chicago Teachers' Pension System did not go through the Pension Laws Committee?"
"It's not provided for in the Rules. It's not a Parliamentary Inquiry, Mr. Parke."
"I don't understand that statement. It is my understanding, according to the Rules of the House, that all pension legislation must go through the Pension Laws Committee and the part of bailing out the Chicago Teachers' Pension System."
Speaker Brunsvold: "Mr. Parke, would you cite that Rule? Would you cite that Rule, House Rule in the Rule book?"
"Staff has said that it has been the expressed understanding of the House that no Pension Bills will come out of the Pension Laws Committee. Speaker Madigan is at the podium. Perhaps he could address this."
Speaker Brunsvold: "It's not provided for in the Rules, Mr. Parke. Mr. Parke. Rep..."
"So, you're trying to tell me...
"Mr...."
"...that any Pension Bill now can go simply through the House onto the Floor without having to go through the Pension Law Committee. You're saying, in the Chair, that that is acceptable procedure now? Perhaps, Speaker Madigan 18 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 might want to address that because..."
Speaker Brunsvold: "If you have a Parliamentary Inquiry cite the Rule, Mr. Parke. I think Representative Currie has a comment on the pension question. Representative Currie."
"I'm sorry. I didn't catch the question."
"Pension, the pension request by Mr. Parke."
"My understanding is the Pension Laws Commission approved language that would say that the Chicago Teachers' Pension Fund should be funded at 20% of what the state pays for the Downstate Teacher Retirement Fund. This measure, in the Amendment to Senate Bill 645, actually tags in at a lower percentage than that that was approved by the Pension Laws Commission."
"That may not be acceptable to a lot of downstaters, but the fact of the matter is, is that the Pension Laws Committee said we 'should' do this. It's a whole lot different than we 'shall' do it under this legislation.
"Well, we're doing..."
"And so, you are now mandating that the taxpayers of Illinois, all over Illinois, are going to pay for Chicago teachers, and I just want to know if that was passed through the Pension Laws Committee that we 'shall' do it and that the taxpayers of downstate Cairo and downstate other areas are going to pay for the Chicago Teachers' Pension Systems? I'd like to know if that's the case."
"I would remind you, first of all, I would remind you that there is a continuing appropriation for downstate teachers. Legislation adopted by this Assembly says, that the state should fund the Chicago Teachers' Pension System at between 20 and 30% of what we spend for downstate teachers. That is already the law of this state. Now, the pension monies have not ever reached that 20%, let alone 19 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 30%. And in a day of continuing appropriation, the failure of the administration to increase the total for Chicago by anything in the last several years, obviously is and should be, a sticking point. The way this legislation is drafted, the legislation for the Chicago Teacher' Pension Fund, the way it's drafted, we will not reach 20% of what we're spending on the Downstate Teachers' System. In fact, the percentage will decline from approximately 17% now, to 9% in the year 2009. It seems to me only fair that when we already have a law on the books that says, 'Yes, we have a responsibility for funding the pension system for Chicago school teachers, it's finally time for us to step up to the plate and do it. And I can't understand why this should be a sticking point for those of you who've already said that we will continuing... in a continuing appropriation, make sure that we fund it 100% what goes on in the Downstate Teachers' System."
"It is my understanding, it is my understanding, that the legislation said that we 'may' do that, and it would take legislation by this Body to do it. This says we 'shall' do it.
"Yes, it does."
"That means that $11 million of the Chicago taxpayers do not have to be expended on their school teachers and the downstate and the suburban and collar counties now are going to have to put out of their pockets, another $11 million for the Chicago teachers. This is mandating that it happen, not legislation that said we 'may' do it. You are now doing it."
"It should, of course, have been part of that original legislation. Let me just point out, Chicagoans are today funding the Downstate Teacher Pension System through a 20 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 continuing appropriation. Where do you think those hundreds of millions of dollars that we spend every year, where do you think they're coming from? They're not just coming from downstate. They're coming from Chicagoans, as well. A little bit of fair play, it seems to me, is called for and again, I would reiterate the Pension Laws Commission said 20%, this is well below that. Our state statutes already say between 20 and 30%, and I can't, for the life of me, figure out what your problem is."
"My problem is, is that again, this is mandating that we do it, and it ought to have gone through the Pension Laws Committee as specifically...
"It did."
"...a specific Bill mandating that all the taxpayers of the State of Illinois increase their costs in Chicago pension systems. I will let the taxpayers of this state decide whether or not they think that's a good idea."
"The Gentleman from Saline, Representative Phelps."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I remember the same comments, the same concerns, and yes, even the same commitment made known almost 14 years ago when I first arrived here at this Body. And I can still hear the echoes in the halls and the lobbies of the same quotes, 'We must reform how we fund education. We must provide adequate and fair funding for all the kids in this state. We must reduce our reliance on property taxes as the main source and method of funding schools. We must find a permanent, stable solution for the disparity that exists in this state.' If that sounds familiar, I also heard those very words and comments and even more eloquently put the first of this year, when we had the 21 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 Committee of the Whole Meeting, put all the plans on the table, see where we go from here. Well, here we are 14 years later at the end of a Session that has been overwhelmed with the rhetoric, political posturing, about giving our kids in this state an equal chance, the same opportunities. But still today, Illinois ranks 46th in the nation for spending per pupil disparity between rich and poor school districts. And guess who's at the bottom and the worst of all that? Today, educational opportunity in this state is not determined by a young person's ability or aptitude to excel, but it is decided by the student's address, where you live in this state. If you happen to live downstate and other property poor areas, instead of having computer technology available ...we are downstate in many districts and I can take you an example of this. In New Burnside, Johnson County School District, we are forced to convert storage closets into libraries. Instead of my kids, in Southern Illinois, being able to access information on the Information Highway, they are trying to make the best with obsolete text books. If we are truly serious about reducing crime, welfare, and launching an aggressive, effective offense against drugs and gangs, let's properly invest in education and demand the accountability and that the dividends be returned to save the taxpayers. I have spent the last several months with many of you and with the leaders in this Body in attempting to bring to us, this strategic point in time, a bipartisan effort to reach the legislative process in harmony, to work on a permanent solution for this overwhelming problem that faces us today. We have worked hard to reach this point in time. There has been no disagreement on the overwhelming, driving principles that should be incorporated in a plan 22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 and are in this plan, in fact, incorporated. Bringing the threshold, the foundation of the student bottom up to at least $42 hundred. Property tax relief in this Bill is not only the largest in the history, but it's also for the farmer. Guess what's the biggest industry in this state, folks? Agriculture. They get relief. Property tax relief and they are for this Bill. Concentrate on the poverty area. Let's focus where the real poverty is and distribute and target funds to those areas. That's in this Bill. What everybody said we should have as the principles, both sides of the aisle, both Chambers, everybody is saying this. Hold harmless, 'hold harmless' has come to mean something different to some people, but it really is 'hold harmless' in this ...I mean, in this particular plan for every school district. It really is a 'hold harmless', and it's tied into growth every year as we climb; forty-two hundred this year for the kids, 43 next year, 44, and there on out. It's guaranteed. It's tied to a permanent, stable funding. And most importantly, we do have a reliable source of funding that we're basing it on. Not this flim-flam, let's tie it to riverboat gambling, let's tie it to some type of pornographic films that we can rely on that's always going to be around, let's tie it to a source of funding that's for sandwiches or deli. How ridiculous. How ridiculous a plan would you want to tell your people you can count on that every year to be around, to tie something into a formal, stable funding? Bring our state up to 50% participation. This nearly does that, and I believe, as time goes on and our growth dollars are tied to what we have in this plan, we will reach that point very soon. Yes, I am proud to be a part of a process that's worked in a bipartisan manner to reach this point where we 23 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 are today. It's a very strategic point. I urge all of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, look beyond the political rhetoric. Look beyond the threats of those that tell you that this is not the way to go, because I believe this will absolutely be the best vote I could ever make for the kids not only of this state, but definitely for, Southern Illinois. We need your 'aye' vote. Think over it very carefully before you make a mistake not to support this Bill. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."
Speaker Brunsvold: "The Lady has moved for the adoption of House Floor Amendment #1. All in favor say 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it. And the Amendment has been adopted. Further Amendments?"
Clerk Rossi: "Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Currie."
"Representative Currie."
"Thank you, Speaker. This is a technical Amendment. The word 'divided' appeared twice in a lengthy sentence and it should only have appeared once. I urge its adoption."
"The Lady has moved for the adoption of the Amendment. And on that the Gentleman from Kendall, Mr. Cross."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. An Inquiry of the Chair with respect to Fiscal Notes."
"State your Inquiry."
"I'm sure you're aware of House Rule 41(a) that requires that the House comply with all Illinois laws requiring Fiscal or other Notes and I would direct your attention to the statutes, Chapter 25. And I'll quote the statute, 'Requires a Fiscal Note to be prepared for every Bill making a direct appropriation. The purpose of effect of which is to expend any state funds or to increase or 24 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 decrease the revenues of the state, either directly or indirectly. The Notes shall be prepared prior to Second Reading. Further provides that the Sponsor of the Bill, shall present a copy of the Bill along with the request for a Fiscal Note to the board, commission, department, agency, or other entity of this state which is to receive or expend the appropriation proposed, or which is responsible for collection of the revenue. Mr. Speaker, in our examination of the file, our understanding is the only Fiscal Note filed is by the Department of Revenue, and from what I'm reading from the Department of Revenue, all I see is a stamped copy. How on earth anyone is to know whether it's an original or not is beyond me. I see a Bureau of the Budget Fiscal Note that's been permitted ...that's been filed, excuse me."
"Mr. Cross, would you state the Section in the statute book?"
"Well, why don't I look at the Constitution, I'm sorry, the portion of the General Assembly Section, 25ILCS50.2. And I guess our biggest concern, Mr. Speaker, is the State Board of Education has not filed a Fiscal Note. As you know, the State Board of Education will be appropriating the money and the spending portion of this. For us to proceed with this Bill, without having the State Board of Education file a Fiscal Note, is preposterous. Fifty dash two, Mr. Parliamentarian, and I guess the Inquiry further is, are we going to move this Bill to Third Reading without a Fiscal Note being filed by the Department of... State Board of Education? Excuse me."
Parliamentarian Kasper: "Representative Cross, Section 2 of the Fiscal Note Act provides that the Fiscal Note will be prepared by the, quote, 'board, commission, department, 25 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 agency, or other entity,' close quote, which is to, quote, 'receive or expend the appropriation proposed or which is responsible for collection of the revenue.' Close quote. And, as I understand that it..."
"Are you suggesting that the State Board of Education has absolutely no role in carrying out this Bill? They appropriate the money, they decide who's going to get the money, and we're not going to require a Fiscal Note from the State Board of Education?"
"Representative Cross, the Department of Revenue will be responsible for collecting the revenues provided for in this Bill. And, yes, I am also saying that the State Board of Education will not make an appropriation, because the State Board of Education does not do that."
"The State Board expends the money, Mr. Parliamentarian and Mr. Speaker, and if you'll look at the language you just quoted, it talked about the expending of money. The Department of Revenue does not spend the money. Mr. Speaker."
"Yes, Mr. Cross."
"I guess this is an example of the glaring problem with this Bill. And to try to shove this Bill down the throats of everyone in the State of Illinois, you give it to us a minute before the Rules Committee meets yesterday. We have less than 24 hours to read a Bill. We were supposed to get it last Friday. We were supposed to get it on Monday. We were supposed to get it on Tuesday. And now we get it with 24 hours to look at it and the State Board doesn't even have an opportunity to file a Fiscal Note. I would ask that you hold this Bill at least another day until the State Board of Education has an opportunity to file a 26 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 Fiscal Note."
"Thank you, Mr. Cross. Currie has moved for the adoption of Floor Amendment #2. All in favor say 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it and Floor Amendment #2 is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments. The Notes that have been requested on the Bill have been filed."
"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
Clerk Rossi: "Senate Bill 645, a Bill for an Act amending the Illinois Income Tax Act. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Currie."
"Thank you, Speaker and Members of the House. We've already had extensive debate, we may well have more. I just remind you that this is your opportunity to do a job we have all talked about in this General Assembly for more than 20 years. The opportunity to see to it that all of our children, not just the kids in our districts, but all of our children have an opportunity for a quality public education. Some 6 to 7 hundred thousand children today, live in districts that, with confiscatory property tax rates, cannot reach the foundation level, the minimally adequate level of $42 hundred per child. It's time for us to do this job. People have talked about it from the Ikenberry Commission to its predecessors. The Governor is ready to stand up to the plate. And we can take home, not only the knowledge that we are fundamentally restructuring the way we finance public education to help out these children be economically independent and effective in the year 2000 and beyond, but we can provide our residents with the largest property tax reduction in this state's, possibly any state's history. So, if you have a 27 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 constituent who is paying $4 thousand in taxes, and 60% of that bill goes to public education, $24 hundred, that constituent will look at a Property Tax Bill that says minus $7 hundred, $7 hundred that individual can keep in his or her pocket. I think that's something worth writing home about. I think it's something worth taking home. But, the real point is fundamentally to restructure the way we finance public education, and make sure we are doing a job for the poorest children in the State of Illinois, children we need if the state is going to continue to move forward in an economically healthy fashion. I invite your support. I invite you to join the Governor, Representatives Black, and Phelps, and me in making this historic change in the State of Illinois."
"The Lady from Macon, Representative Curry."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. As a downstate Legislator, I rise in strong support for this Bill. For years I've listened to many of the individuals in this Body talk about the need for education reform. And for the two and a half years that I've been a Member of this House, I have not only talked about education funding reform, but I have heard each and every one of you talk about it as well. And as downstate Legislators, for the first time, we have an opportunity to help fund education for all of the children of this state, the children of our districts in Central and Southern Illinois, where the cost per pupil, per spending for each year, is sometimes less than $25 hundred. And in the wealthy suburbs, you know and I know, that spending can get close to $15 thousand per year. We've come up with an adequate funding level of $42 hundred a year, per student. That's not too much to ask for to help our children. How can you possibly vote 28 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 against the largest property tax reduction in the state's history? How could you do that? How could you tell the property taxpayers, the senior citizens of our district, that they do not deserve great reductions in the amount of property taxes that they pay? Let me tell you as a former property tax collector in Macon County, I saw many senior citizens come into my office and literally stand at my counter and cry because they could no longer afford to live in the home that they had lived in for 30 and 40 years because their property taxes had risen so high. We have an opportunity today to vote to reduce those taxes. And we have the opportunity to infuse more than $6 hundred million of revenue into our schools. Once and for all, we will be able to resolve the school funding crisis in Illinois. No longer are we going to put band-aid solutions to this problem. No more flat grants. No more categorical grant funding. We're going to give each and every student in this state the same opportunity. That's only fair. I've heard many proposals over the last few months about how we should fund education. And one of them comes from the Minority Leader of this House. How about let's add a tax, let's expand the tax on riverboat gambling? Sure, let's encourage Illinois citizens to go to the riverboats and gamble more. How about let's tax cigarettes? Okay, puff away while you're at the riverboats. How about let's tax liquor? Okay, while you're there have a few more drinks, and on your way home stop and get a porn video and magazine, and that will fund the education of your children. That is wrong. This is a fundamental change in the way we fund education in this state. Have the courage to stand with all of us, to stand with your Governor, who's had the courage to come to this Body and ask for support. 29 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 I ask for you to think about this carefully, because it will be your only chance to help the children of this state. Thank you."
Speaker Brunsvold: "The Gentleman from Kendall, Mr. Cross. Mr. Cross."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"The Lady yields."
"Thank you. Representative, I'm looking over the transcript from the first day we were here in Springfield, on January 8. I'm sure you'll recall that day. The Speaker made several commitments, or promises with respect to schools, and that we all needed to work together and cooperatively to try to solve some of the school issues. One of the things he talked about was discipline in the schools, and that there was a desperate need for discipline, and mandating homework assignments would be one of those things that would add to the discipline issue. Is there anything in this Bill with respect to the mandating of homework?"
"Representative, there is not.
"Thank you."
"I would remind you, the Speaker offered that Bill and you voted against it. So, I expect you're happy not to see it in this particular proposal."
"Well, he talked about a strong commitment to education, and he further said that there would be a mandate to wear uniforms. Is there anything about uniforms in your Bill?"
"Again, Representative, there was a Bill the Speaker offered to do just that. You voted 'no'. And I'm happy to report to you that you don't have to change your vote when you support Senate Bill 645, because there is no requirement for mandatory uniforms." 30 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997
"And, if I'm reading this transcript correctly, he talked about accountability, and we all support accountability. And in his speech he said, 'We should move', if I'm reading correctly, 'move to eliminate tenure of teachers.'Is there anything in the Bill, are we going to continue to eliminate the concept of tenure in this Bill? Are they going to try?"
"The Bill provides for the best teachers in America, in the State of Illinois. The Bill says, instead of 35 bucks, and two years to tenure with no evaluation, we will have a Teacher Certification Independent Board appointed by the Governor. People will be required to spend four years in the classroom before they are eligible to achieve certification, and every five years thereafter, they will be reevaluated. Instead of sending a four dollar check to Springfield in order to maintain certification, this board will establish standards to evaluate, teachers will have to show professional development if they want to hold on to their teaching certificate. There is a good deal in this Bill that we can be proud of if we support it. We are going to make sure we have quality teachers who meet national standards. That is important to me, and it is important to every school child in the State of Illinois."
"So, that's a 'no', it's not in the Bill. I just want to make sure.
"If the question is..."
"Mr. Speaker, to the Bill."
"Proceed."
"I don't think anyone in this Chamber doesn't care about the kids of the State of Illinois, on both sides of the aisle. And I think everyone would agree. This side, maybe more importantly than the other side of the aisle. And, I 31 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 think the differences we have are not where we want to be. We all want to reach the foundation level; even those of us in districts that have already reached the foundation level. We're prepared to pay more money for other parts of the state to reach the foundation level. We all can see there should be a Construction Bond Program. I think that's an idea, I know it's an idea that came from this side of the aisle. And we all agree that there should be property tax relief. But, Ladies and Gentlemen of this Chamber, and those of you listening to this debate, there are better ways to accomplish what we all want. Incidentally, if we could take this off Short Debate. And also, in the event it gets the requisite number of votes, we'd like a verification."
"So acknowledged, Mr. Cross."
"There are better ways, and a better route to take than raising the income tax level that is proposed under this Bill. All you have to do is look at the state of the economy, and look at what other states throughout the country are doing. New Hampshire, their Legislature is considering legislation that would limit property taxes 3 to 3% of the fair market value. The New York Legislature has a 1.7 billion phased-in property tax relief program that they're considering right now. The State of Connecticut Governor proposed a 13% reduction in the state income tax. The Texas Governor proposed a $2.8 billion residential and business property tax reduction. The Iowa Governor just signed a 10% reduction in state income tax brackets. The list goes on and on of other states reducing property taxes and reducing income taxes. We, however, are considering the exact opposite. We have offered a plan that would allow us to get there using general revenue 32 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 growth, along with potentially, some other forms of taxes. And I would ask some of you on the other side of the aisle, how you can support this Bill knowing that we can accomplish the same things without raising taxes. Representative Crotty, your Bill ...this Bill would show in your district, a $10 million loss to the residents of the state of your district. Ten million dollars in losses. Representative Brosnahan, $1 million loss net difference under this Bill to the people of your district. Representative McCarthy, an $8 million loss to the people of your district if you vote for this Bill. Representative Giglio, a $6 million loss to the people of your district. Representative Scully, a loss of $3 million. Representative Davis, a loss of $5 million. Representative Bradford, a $6 million loss. Representative Phelps, a $4 million loss. The evidence is clear. We are raising taxes when we could be doing it in a far superior way using natural revenue growth. And I would encourage you on this Bill to vote 'no' so we can have an opportunity to consider a more viable, a more fair, economic plan. And lastly, I would encourage the Speaker of this House to take a strong look at what happens with the vote today. We have heard threats. We have had inferences. We have had a variety of comments made that if we don't vote for this Bill we won't have another opportunity. This isn't a place where we just decide we're going to take the ball and bat and go home. This is a place of compromise. We don't always agree with everything, nor should we. Statesmen build consensus. And it's far better to build consensus and work together, because the satisfaction is long-lived. We can divide and conquer, the satisfaction is short-lived. To suggest that we don't have another opportunity to vote is absurd. This 33 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 is not one person's General Assembly. It's the people of the State of Illinois' General Assembly. And I hope that if this Bill dies, and I think it might unfortunately, we all want kids to do good and do well, and this in not about kids, it's also about money, that we have an opportunity to continue this debate over the next few days. We invite that, and we invite you to do the same thing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."
"The Chair would like to remind the people in the Gallery that no demonstrations are allowed, nor will they be permitted during debate. The Gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Boland."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Today is an historic occasion because today, we're going to vote on the biggest property tax relief Bill in Illinois history. Nine hundred million dollars worth of tax relief to hard-press property taxpayers. For decades, politicians have been coming to Springfield and saying they were for property tax relief. Well, here it is, locked in, year in and year out, a 28% break for people on their school property tax. For decades politicians have been coming to Springfield saying we ought to include renters in property tax relief. Well, here it is, for the first time ever in Illinois history. For decades, politicians have been coming to Springfield saying we need to get the schools off of the property tax and onto a fairer tax. Well, here it is. For decades, politicians have been coming to Springfield saying that we need to provide more state funding for education, giving the property taxpayers a break, and making the state pay closer to 50% of the school cost. Well, here it is. For decades, politicians have been coming to Springfield saying we need to address 34 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 the funding inequities between school districts. Well, here it is. For decades, politicians have been coming to Springfield saying kids everywhere in the state should have an adequate, decent foundation level of education. Well, here it is. And remember that an investment in kids' education, anywhere in this state, means savings later on in prison and welfare costs. For decades politicians have been coming to Springfield saying we have to give our farmers property tax relief. Well, here it is. For decades politicians have been coming to Springfield saying we need to do something about our school infrastructure, the overcrowding in the suburbs and the city, the need for repairs in the downstate schools. Well, here it is. And this means jobs, jobs, jobs for our working men and women. For decades politicians have been coming to Springfield saying we need to help our senior citizens on fixed incomes. Well, here it is. Ladies and Gentlemen, it is time for us to replace decades of talk with action. And let me make a special plea to my fellow downstaters on both sides of the aisle. It's time to act for our school children and their future. It's time to act for our homeowners, renters, and farmers. It's time to act now, and pass the biggest tax relief measure in Illinois history. Thank you."
"The Gentleman from McHenry, Mr. Skinner."
"Besides being the largest income tax increase in history, that is the largest tax increase in history this Bill is a massive 'bait and switch'. Back in 1958, I heard Governor Ogilvie give a speech in Crystal Lake in which he hinted at the possibility of imposing an income tax to cut property taxes. In 1973, I was here and I voted for the Resource Equalizer State Aid to Education Formula. Within 35 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 that Bill was a promise of a property tax cut for my hometown and many other high taxed areas. Guess what happened? The same people that were here, I see Art Berman standing there smiling knowingly. The same people who were here pushing for the income tax increase in '68 and who supported the State Aid to Education Resource Equalizer Formula in 1973, came back and asked for the property tax relief portion of the formula to be repealed, and it was repealed before any property tax relief was delivered. There was a guy named George Santayana, he said, 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' Now one of the disadvantages of term limits and the rapid turnover of personnel in the General Assembly, is that there isn't much of an institutional memory left here. Not many people were here in 1973, that are still around. Maybe we will have property tax relief as a result of this Bill. But history tells us, that we might not. Well, then it was 1983, and the next Republican Governor proposed an income tax increase. And the House Republicans said, 'You don't need a permanent income tax increase. We'll give you a temporary income tax increase.' That was 20% increase. It was given and it disappeared. Then it was 1989, and Governor Thompson again came and pleaded for an income tax increase, and the General Assembly gave him a temporary income tax increase. Since 1989, has anybody noticed any increase in the quality of services provided by any school district, or any municipality or county that got part of that income tax increase as a result of their having received that extra money? Well, then comes 1991, and Governor Edgar is in office and we have a permanent income tax increase of 20%. We make it permanent. Now it's 1987... 1997, boy time does fly. But first let me take 36 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 you back to 1995. Here's the front page of the _______ Chicago Tribune. _______ The front page of the Chicago _______________ Tribune, the day of the inauguration of our Governor and the other statewide officials. And the headline says, 'No Income Tax Increase'. And I was so impressed, I highlighted it in yellow and framed it and put it on my wall, hoping I'd never have to hold it up and say, 'Gee, sounds like a 'bait and switch' to me.' Well, we've been promised property tax relief here. We've... and that's the bait. Clearly, that's the bait. As the Representative from Rock Island County pointed out. What have we gotten? A 25% income tax increase. That exceeds the property tax cut. We were promised in the first iteration of this proposal, $1.2 billion of real estate tax relief, and $6 hundred million of new money to schools. Well, now we're down to $9 hundred million of property tax relief. But, we still have $6 hundred million more for schools. So, we can see what the bait was and we can see what the switch is. Ladies and Gentlemen, what this is going to give us is tax relief for land speculators, ordinary farmers, mega hog farms, real estate developers and homeowners and a little pittance to renters. We do not disagree with the Governor's goals. We think they are laudable goals. But we do not understand, we as Republicans do not understand, how our Republican Governor can be so out of step with the National Republican Party's philosophy. Republican Governors throughout the country are lowering taxes. Our Republican Governor wants to raise taxes. He wants to raise them $1.5 billion while giving $9 hundred million of real estate tax relief. It just doesn't make sense, Ladies and Gentlemen. I encourage you to vote 'no'."
"The Chair would like to welcome the Senators 37 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 to the House Floor. Welcome. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Schoenberg."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. When I listened to some of the... I've had the opportunity to listen to much of what a number of my colleagues from various areas in the state have had to say, and it reminds me of a passage of one of my favorite books by Garrison Keillor from Lake Wobegone __________________ Days about the fictional Midwestern town. And one of the major characters in that book in reflecting on his life and what he's seen over the course of that life says, 'That anything that ever happened to me is happening to other people. And somewhere in the world right now a kid is looking at something and thinking, I'm going to remember this for the rest of my life, and it's the same thing that I looked at 40 years ago.' If that's true, and our lives are being lived over and over by others, I don't know if I should laugh or cry. My friends, those who have spoken in opposition to this proposal today, I have to say that their argument essentially boils down to the words of the late, great Mayor Richard Daley, who said inappropriately, 'We're not here to create disorder. We're here to preserve disorder.' And for a number of compelling reasons, my friends, for reasons that transcend this printout, I, today am proud, on behalf of my residents who send their children to New Trier High School and Evanston Township High School, models not just for excellence in Illinois, but excellence throughout the state. I take pride today, in standing with my Governor, and standing with the Mayor of the City of Chicago, and standing with all those who look beyond the narrow, myopic, babbitt-like tendencies, to say, 'Well in Suburban Mall District 613, I don't know how this is going 38 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 to be for me.' I'm standing here today, to proudly cast my vote in favor of this proposal. This is an issue which is much, much larger than our own narrower parochial interests. And it more importantly transcends the partisan divide. The same partisan divide that I was willing to cross when former Speaker Daniels took the initiative, boldly did so, to institute fundamental change in how the Chicago Public Schools were run. Speaker Daniels made a very compelling case as to why the status quo was insufficient, as to why the status quo was inadequate, as to why we needed fundamental structural change, and how the Chicago Public Schools were run. Speaker Daniels was right and I was proud despite the political fallout and repercussions that, perhaps, had to incur. I was proud to stand with him then because the merits of the issue transcended the partisanship. When those who opposed in 1992, and I joined them, the Constitutional Amendment to change the Constitution in a way, that in my view, was not going to provide any specifics but rather just a warm and fuzzy constitutional alternative. I opposed it because it lacked a meaningful plan. It lacked a meaningful series of educational reforms. It lacked a fundamental change in how we fund schools. I opposed that then and that's exactly why I'm for this today, because of the work that Mr. Daniels has done in previous years, because the work of the Governor and Speaker Madigan today, this is the next logical progression as to where we should go. We should be undoubtedly extending these reform measures. Some of them statewide and we arguably could do more. And in my view, it's the reform measures which, ultimately drive this package. We could be doing more to enable charter schools to be up and thriving. We should be providing financial 39 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 reward for schools who move off of academic probation and show meaningful improvement. And it doesn't matter where those schools are because after all, if you think about it, we're moving towards a global economy that depends on the Internet. Do you think anyone really cares what the boundaries are of any House District in a global economy? To argue on those narrow, parochial terms is simply illogical and fails to make any sense at all. Property tax, it's been argued that the property tax component of this, is one that provides relief. Will provide significant relief for businesses, particularly in Cook County, especially, in Suburban Cook County, where we've seen businesses conduct their own exodus into the collar counties because property taxes are simply too high. According to the Metropolitan Planning Council, the high reliance of... "
Speaker Brunsvold: "Mr. Schoenberg, bring your remarks to a close."
"...provides a strong disincentive for investing in Suburban Cook County. We need to have a greater diversity of our tax base. As our neighbors, the Republican governors in Milwaukee... in Michigan and Indiana, have imposed. And I add that they're Republican governors. But in closing my friends, I just want to share one personal observation with you. I know that when many of us speak with each other, the eye contact is often limited. It's often very fleeting. There's often not a very long connection. But, I wish to say to you, that when you're making your decisions today on what to do, you should think as if you were looking into a child's eyes. And when you look into... hold a child and you look into a child's eyes, what do you see? You see unlimited hope for the future. 40 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 You see unbridled optimism. You see a reason to create a better world. In my faith, we're taught that if you are able to save one life, it's if you've saved an entire world. My friends, today we have the opportunity to save an entire galaxy, and that's why you should vote for Governor Edgar's proposal. Thank you."
Speaker Brunsvold: "The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Biggins. Mr. Biggins."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I have a question of the Sponsor. Will the Sponsor yield to a question?"
"The Sponsor yields."
"I know she's been standing there for quite awhile listening to a lot of good speeches ...I'd like to ask a question about how we're going to fund this Bill the second year out? I believe that the foundation level will rise a $100 per pupil. Could you tell me how that will be funded after the first year?"
"It will rise by $100 next year and in then each of the following five years, and the funding will come from the portion of the income tax that is devoted to school funding in this proposal, as well as new revenues. There also will be a continuing appropriation of the portion of the program that will enable school districts across the state to rebuild their crumbling buildings to do the kind of new construction that's important...
"Thank you very much."
"...and to make sure the roofs are not leaking anymore."
"Thank you. You've done a fine job answering that question. You mean you're relying on natural revenue growth to fund this program going forward?"
"The income tax has been increasing in value. It is a 41 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 steady reliable source of income.
"Not value."
"And we do believe on the basis of economic analysts, that this will provide the dollars we need to continue funding the education part of the program, as well of course, as it will increasingly provide additional property tax relief."
"Well, Representative, we currently have a $975 million of new revenue, without a tax increase. Why are you proposing a tax increase to raise a billion and a half? We're two-thirds of the way there with natural revenue growth."
"First of all, there isn't. It's $660 million in new revenue growth. About $450 million of those dollars are already allocated because of decisions made by last year's General Assembly. I'd love it if were true, Representative Biggins. If only the estimates that we see are as rosy as your own. Perhaps the problem is that the glasses people wear on your side of this question are all rose-colored glasses. The fact is if we could do it out of natural revenue growth, we'd have done it years ago and it would have worked. Every year we put new money into public education, and every year we see the state's share of funding the cost of public schools go backwards, go down, from 48% in 1977, to 32% today. There's your natural revenue growth. It isn't working. It does not fund a fundamental restructuring of education finance. This program will. This program that we worked carefully with, with the Governor, and with Members of each Caucus. People are saying, 'Oh, this was a thing that appeared in the middle of the night.' Nonsense. Representatives Winkel and Cowlishaw from your Caucus were part of the working 42 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 group.
"Will you vote the same way they vote?"
"They were there at every meeting."
"Will you vote the same way Representatives Winkel and Cowlishaw will vote?"
"The point is that this is a shared product, that people worked together.
"Okay, fine. On March 5, if I may interrupt my..." Currie "It isn't a midnight Bill. You saw it Friday. People talk about seeing it yesterday for the first time. Friday, that Bill was in your leader's hands."
"Fine. On March 5th, revenues were ...that 682 million, I think you referred to that number, but as of the Economic, the Illinois Economic and Fiscal Commission says, we now have $989 million today which is $14 million more than yesterday. Why can't we just wait until tomorrow and we'll take care of all of our needs without a tax increase?"
"But, that number that you're quoting is not the estimate from the Economic and Fiscal Commission, as I understand it. It is one possible scenario from Ec and Fisc. Bureau of the budget has not changed, and the question is, you want to use all of that money, It's betting on the come, money that will not be there. And if you don't do it that way, then what you're doing is shutting down the prisons, because we can't hire the guards we need. Making sure that people who need mental health services don't get them. Putting more and more children at risk of abuse and neglect. You can't have it all ways. I'd love it if we could. I'd be much happier not to be voting for a tax hike and I'm sure the folks at home would be happier, too, if we could do the job without it. The fact is, we can't, we've 43 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 tried, we can't, this is the only way to go. And I hope you'll join me in voting 'yes'."
"Well, thank you very much, for that answer. We don't necessarily see things through rose-colored glasses. But when Republicans see tax increases, we do see red and we don't like them. Now, I was just reading this Bill today, and on the way in, someone stopped me, and they said to me, 'What's the largest tax increase in the State of Illinois?' And I said, 'Oops, here it is,' and I showed them the Bill. Then someone else asked me... To the Bill, Mr. Speaker. Thank you."
"Proceed."
"Someone else asked me, 'Well what's the largest increase to the Chicago Teachers' Pension Fund from the taxpayers of the State of Illinois?' And I said, 'Oops, here it is.' And then someone else asked me, these signs about smoke and mirrors in the back of the room. We don't believe in smoke and mirrors. This plan is funded on future revenue growth. We think it's unacceptable. But I want to tell you what is the most distressing part of this whole package, and that is the disrespect toward the farmers of this state. If anybody... . "
"Bring your remarks to a close, Mr. Biggins."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I certainly will. If anybody thinks it's constitutional to give a tax break to the lot next door to the farmer's house, but not next door to the home owner's house, they have to go back to start reading their State Statutes again. This is patently unconstitutional. You're misleading the farmers of this state into thinking they're getting a property tax cut. They're not going to get it. Some group is going to challenge it. It's unfair. I'll vote for it separately on 44 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 some other Bill. I'll support the concept. But, if anybody is going to vote for this giant tax increase thinking they're helping farmers, they're lying to their constituents. I urge a 'no' vote."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Silva."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had a question, but I did want to clarify that I rise in support of this Bill. As a freshman Legislator, I came here to make some hard decisions, and I think that some of you will have to make those hard decisions. But, one of things that I do realize when I got here is that it says, 'State Legislator'. That means that we have to be concerned about children in the entire state, and not just in our districts. I support this measure, because I come from a working class district. In my schools, I have children who have to be in classrooms in 40 degree weather in the wintertime because of drafty windows, leaking roofs, peeling paint, asbestos and lead, and I know that these conditions exist in other parts of the state, and all I've heard since I have gotten here is how we don't have money to do work force development. We don't have any money to do meaningful programs. However, I will remind you that all of you before your title, it says, 'State Legislator', 'State Representative', and I think that you have to vote for this Bill and you have to vote your conscience. I think that you also have to vote the right way. There are children in this room who are listening to us, and I know that having been here, we haven't had this much attention to any piece of legislation. I would urge you to vote 'yes' on this Bill. I still have a few concerns about Chapter I dollars. Not everything was addressed. We can't get everything all of the time. But, to pass this Bill, we need to think about 45 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 our children. One of the questions that I had for the Speaker is, if in fact in past years, Chapter I dollars would be able to be carried over from one year to the next?"
"The Lady yields." Silva "And I am assuming that, that will be the case, still?"
"The language, with respect to Chapter I dollars does not change under this Bill."
"It does not change. So, they will be able to..."
"So, if they were able to in the past, they will be able to in the future."
"One of the other points that I wanted to bring up is that for the last three years, $261 million has gone to Chapter I in the City of Chicago. For all intents and purposes, if I recall the debate in 1995, was that it was used as the floor, however, the Board of Education has frozen it for the last three years. One of the things that I want to urge is that we really do need an increase, because of inflation, books cost more, teachers, et cetera, and I would hope that the expectation is that the Chicago Board of Education will provide increases directly to the attendance centers."
"Representative, I share your hope and expectation. We did leave the dollar amount $261 million unchanged in this legislation, but, I believe that we have some assurances from the head of the Chicago Public School System, that additional dollars will be made available to local school councils, and I certainly would support that effort."
"I would urge you to vote 'yes'. I know it is a difficult decision for some of you, but, you really need to think about all the kids in the State of Illinois. Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Madison, Mr. Stephens. 46 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 Mr. Stephens."
"First of all, thank you for not letting my Senator speak. Although, I know that he echoes my feelings. Mr. Speaker, to the Bill."
"Proceed."
"First of all, some of the things that have been said on the Floor really should amaze us. First of all, the talk about or characterize this as the largest tax decrease, the largest tax decrease is absolutely incredible. Six hundred million dollar tax increase can't be characterized any other way than just that, a tax increase. And one of the reasons that a lot of us who support money for construction for downstate and other schools, one of the reasons that we stand in opposition to this Bill, just going back to January 1st of this year, the general funds increase over the previous year. These are dollars that we didn't have in the previous year, natural revenue growth. In an economy that is growing, you should recognize that you have new dollars that come into the state coffers. Just going back to January 1st, $450 million to spend for tax relief for new schools, for less crowded classrooms, for educational benefits for children, $450 million more on January 1st this year than we had the year before. In April 1st, $562 million. March, $682. May 1st $789 million new dollars to spend on children in Illinois to build schools, to make classrooms, class size smaller, to help educate the children of Illinois, $789 million. May 23rd, just last week, $899 million. Just yesterday, $975 million and growing. Today, May 29th, $989 million. Ladies and Gentleman, if we stay here and debate this Bill long enough, we will have a billion dollars extra to spend on the children of Illinois, and I'm telling you, 47 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 when you've got a billion dollars to spend, you don't have to raise taxes. Now, we have a plan. You want to talk about property tax relief? Call our Bill. Call our plan and we'll show you how to bring property tax relief to Illinois property taxpayers without punishing them with an income tax, without having them net losers. We can build schools in Illinois. We can lessen the class size burden on teachers. We can put more dollars into education, more dollars into property tax relief, more dollars into downstate schools that need it, oh, so badly, without raising your taxes, because the proof is clear. Taxes are going up at the rate of a billion dollars a year. A billion dollars that you didn't count on having, that you can spend on children, if you wish. That's the real issue. You want to raise taxes to do it. On this side of aisle, we say use the natural growth, set your priorities, spend it on the children. We'll vote for that. We'll build the new schools. We'll put the money in the classroom, but why punish the taxpayer? Why not give them property tax relief that is real, and why not give them the benefit of the growth that this economy has, because we've been wise in not raising taxes? Why not let them have that benefit? They can have their education and their property tax relief, too. That's all that we ask for. There it is. There it is over there, a massive tax increase for the most part on this side of the aisle, what you're going to see is reason will win out. We say do it with the natural growth that has never been better in Illinois. Why vote for the largest tax increase in the history of this state, when you've got a billion dollars that you are not using in your checkbook? It just doesn't add up. Vote 'no'."
"The Gentleman from Effingham, Mr. Hartke." 48 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997
"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and Members of the House. We've been talking about this issue for a long, long time, and I think its... You know, this morning when you asked me whether all the Members were here and I said, Yes, we're all here to do the work for the people of the State of Illinois and the kids, and I think we're about to do that. You know, every Bill that we pass here, that's a major Bill, is not perfect and I've got some problems with this Bill myself. It is not perfect by any means. But, this group has put together a piece of legislation, I think, that fundamentally changes the way we finance education in Illinois. I just have two problems with the Bill, and I was wondering if the Sponsor would yield?"
"The Sponsor yields."
"Representative Currie, in the discussions on this Bill, I have found that Subchapter S corporations are being double taxed, and I have received a lot of phone calls recently about that issue. Can you address that please?"
"I can. Thank you, Representative. As I say, this is not a perfect Bill. There are those who think we are giving too much help to farmers, those who think we are not giving enough, those who are concerned about the riverboat gambling enterprise owners, for example, who are Subchapter S corporations, and the corporate LaSalle street lawyers, who are also Subchapter S corporations, that they don't get a break. The amount of the break required to help them out in this Bill is $128 million. You can get there two ways. You can reduce the residential property tax relief, you can underfund the school equation, or you can add to the income tax increase. Make it .82 rather than .75. I would remind you that people who organize as businesses Subchapter S or limited partnerships get very substantial tax benefits at 49 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 the Federal level. Today, they don't pay the corporate rate of 5.8% in the State of Illinois. They pay at a rate of 3%. Tomorrow, should this Bill pass, indeed, their tax would go up to 3.75% but, that is still an awful lot lower than 5.8%. So, as I say, if somebody wanted to offer the Amendment to increase the income tax, yet further, or to reduce property tax relief for homeowners, we could consider a way to help them. I'm sorry, we can't in this Bill. But I still think most of them will opt to stick with the Subchapter S corporation arrangement or the limited partnership rather than turning themselves into people who would be eligible to pay the corporate income tax itself."
"Well, thank you very much for that answer. I think it was a good answer, and it is good to know that you did discuss it. I would make a comment that possibly, maybe if we would exempt the Subchapter S out, we would be short of revenues for our desired goal and I understand that. But, there has also been a proposal that the Governor suggested and many suggested that we put a graduated tax on the present owners of the riverboats that are making obscene profits. That would make up the difference, I do believe, by increasing that just a little bit. We can still keep the property tax level as it is. We can keep the income tax level as it is. We could relieve many of the small mom and pop Subchapter S corporations. If there is any fix to this Bill, that is the only thing that I see that should be done. Other than that, I think it is a great proposal and I think we all should support our Governor on this piece of legislation and I urge my Republican colleagues, who have said for years, education is their number one priority, kids are the number one priority. Don't turn your heads on 50 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 them today. Please, vote 'yes', and make sure that this piece of legislation gets over to the Senate and let's make them earn their keep over there. Thank you very much."
Speaker Brunsvold: "The Lady from McHenry, Representative Hughes."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill."
"Proceed."
"I rise in opposition to Senate Bill 645 but, I want to make one thing clear. The debate here is not a debate about education and standing first for education. I stand for education being the number one priority of this Body this year. But, I also suggest that there are alternatives to achieving the reform for education funding on a long term basis with capital expenditures for schools, with property tax relief, with a dramatic shift to larger shares to a preponderance of share of education funding to the state in a manner other than proposed in this Bill. A vote against this Bill is not a vote against kids and it is not a vote against quality education and I want to make that absolutely clear. We have worked for years in this Body to make Illinois a good place to live, to make it a good place to do business, to make it a place that helps people get off of welfare. We've passed numerous laws that have provided dividends in every one of those areas, fewer people on welfare, more people getting jobs, a growing economy, growing revenues in this state, growing manufacturing sector and opportunity, and what is the dividend of all of that? It is record revenues to this state. Record growth in revenues. Ending cash balances beyond what we imagined two and three and four years ago. This is a grand opportunity for us, as a Body, to show the citizens of Illinois how we reward them for the tremendous 51 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 wealth of this state, an opportunity we are providing, with a dividend to them, the best in education by adopting the reforms that are in this Bill and the best of the taxpayers. And that is the most efficient use of their dollars by giving their dollars either back to them, not through a tax increase, but through prioritizing the financial dividends we've received and giving them to education, trimming the fat in the budget and not raising taxes. We can do both. The best in education reform, increased responsibility of the state for that funding burden, but without this significant increase in taxes. That is what the citizens of this state expect and it's what they deserve. It's not the easiest. It's far easier to raise taxes and not make the tough decisions of prioritizing. But, I suggest to you and challenge you, that the right thing to do is reform education funding, take on a responsibility and set the right priorities."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Giglio."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. To the Bill."
"Proceed."
"I rise in support of Governor Edgar's plan for fundamentally reforming the way we fund schools here in Illinois. My name was used earlier in debate and my district was referred to as receiving a net loss of $6 or $7 million and that just isn't the case. That isn't the case, Mr. Speaker. If you do the homework, if you do the leg work, if you break down the 79th District and you put District 205 in the 79th, and School District 215 in the 79th, and School District 206 in the 79th, you will see a net gain of over $2.6 million to the 79th District. This is a good Bill, but it takes some homework. Sometimes you 52 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 have to do a little bit more work than just read the printouts that come before you. There is $9 hundred million worth of property tax relief on this plan. This is a good plan for the people of Illinois. Whether you grow up in Danville, whether you grow up in Dalton or whether you grow up in DuPage, you deserve the same education. This Bill provides that opportunity. This Bill requires courage. We were elected down here because we are courage. We took the courage to run for public office. I know what everyone's afraid of, we're afraid of that mailer. Giglio voted for that tax increase, so and so voted for that tax increase. You have to rise above the mailers, above the politics. I challenge all of you to step up to the plate and take that challenge and vote for the children of Illinois. If the children of Illinois could vote, they would vote in favor of this measure, but they can't. Unfortunately, that special interest, the children of Illinois, aren't afforded the vote. And if you asked them, if you went to the children of Illinois and you said, 'Do you need more money for schools?' They would tell you, 'Yes, we do, because I'd like a new computer.' They would tell you, 'Yes, we do, because I want the swing-set fixed.' They would tell you, 'Yes, we do, because the books we're using are 10 or 15 or 20 years old.' The children would tell you to vote for this Bill but unfortunately, they can't vote. Unfortunately, they're not afforded that opportunity. Lastly, in closing, I would ask everyone to support this measure. It does fundamentally change the way schools are funded in Illinois and, Governor Edgar, I look forward to campaigning with you in '98. Thank you."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Mulligan."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill." 53 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997
"Proceed."
"Let's not kid the taxpayers of Illinois, that this Bill is for children. This Bill is not a vote for kids. This Bill is a vote for spending the revenue growth on other things. Things that will be tucked in a budget that will be passed in one large Bill where the majority of the Members of this House don't even know what's in that Bill and where the revenue growth has gone. Let's talk about the revenue growth. Where is it going? Do we know that? Absolutely not, but people who encourage voting for an income tax increase have said, 'We won't get things, if we don't have the income tax increase.' We can easily spend the revenue growth on providing the property tax relief and a better construction Bill that will go for construction for schools in Illinois. Under the plan now proposed, there's about $1 hundred million for construction. Under the Republican, the House Republican Plan, there were $3 billion for construction, reconstruction on schools. This is a big, significant difference. At the price of what a new school costs, a $100 million doesn't go very far and certainly isn't significant. And why is it so little? Because we have bought off everyone and their brother to vote for this by including little 'perks' in the Bill. That's where our revenue growth is going. And what will happen when this done? Well, those of us in the primary, we run in March. But, those of you in the General Election, that's after April 15th when the income tax comes due. What will happen to the property tax relief? Well, the assessments will go up and it will evaporate. What will happen to the income tax? We will continue to pay it. For some of you, this is an easy decision. Your income tax may not be as much as ours. When we talked about fair 54 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 funding for schools, the word 'fair' was emphasized over and over. Leveling down was always said to be not a consideration. For those of us that hurt our district, this will be a leveling down because of the high income tax, the evaporation of property tax, the overall increase of getting that property tax back, which is a big sham, property tax relief, and we will have spent almost a billion dollars in revenue growth that could have easily covered a much better, fiscally sound plan for things. Well, when it comes time to pass that final budget, we're going to start looking at what those things are. And when it comes time for you to run in the fall, I hope some of you remember that you passed the largest income tax increase in Illinois. And for those of us who feel that this is not a benefit, but a raping of our district, I want you to know the only good vote here is a 'no' vote."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Flowers."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman of the House. To the Bill. I'm truly appalled by the debate that's going on in regards to this particular piece of legislation because, what are we afraid of? We're afraid of helping some children? Talking about mailings that's going out, talking about a waste of tax dollars. What we've done to our children is unfortunate, when you think about how many prisons that we have built in comparison, in this state, in comparison to how many schools that we've built. When you think about it on a average, we are spending $42 hundred per child to educate them in substandard buildings versus $18 thousand to $30 thousand per prison and prison inmate. I remember there was a debate on the Floor, where as it one Legislator said that he had to encourage his school to use the prison ground 55 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 because the school track ground was not good enough. Is that the message that we want to send? Talking about a tax increase to help children, I think the constituents of the State of Illinois would be very proud of that. And I think, what we should be doing here is encouraging this, taking into consideration that we will have welfare reform to contend with. Taking into consideration, that the fact of the matter is, if we educate the children we can eliminate the tax burdens of the future. If we educate the children we can eliminate welfare. If we educate the children, we can eliminate crime. If we educate the children, we can eliminate a lot of problems in our community and make this state a more competitive state with other states. If we invest into our children now, we are investing in ourselves into a safe environment. Why are we afraid of helping children? I urge a 'aye' vote on Senate Bill 645."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Parke."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I've listened to the debate and in many ways I think we're all saying the same thing, and in many ways I think we're all struggling with the right answer, trying to decide what's best for the children, for the education community, to the taxpayers, and the individual citizens of this State of Illinois. It's very difficult. It's hard for me to listen to my colleagues and their pleas, and not understand that many times it's heartfelt and they truly believe in what they're saying. In that regard, I think we have a dilemma. You are presenting a Bill that has a solution. It's a tax increase, an income tax increase. We have a solution that's not been heard yet that offers alternative taxes, and using natural growth. I hope we're 56 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 able to prevail on our side and that we will come back tomorrow or even next week, and present another Bill with a compromise that maybe we all can live with. And it would be grand if we could have a Bill where we could have 118 votes, because then we are truly compromising and trying to solve the problem. Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield?"
"The Sponsor yields."
"Representative Currie, how much money will be generated by the income tax increase?"
"One point five billion dollars in the first year."
"How much property tax relief are we expecting?"
"Nine hundred million...
"So, therefore..."
"...in the first year."
"Okay, in the first year. So, therefore, we have a $6 hundred million difference. Is that from 1.5?"
"Between what and what, Representative?"
"Between 1.5 and 900. Isn't there a $600 million difference between what a taxpayer can expect to see in the general scope of it?"
"That's right, and of course, the reason for that is...
"Representative, I'm only asking ...I'm only asking..." Currie: ...what propels the program is to fund education."
"You'll have an opportunity to close. I'm only asking a matter of dollars."
"Yes."
"So, in my evaluation, we're having a 6 hundred... for the taxpayers, there's a $6 hundred million pure tax increase on that. Let me ask you, many times the speakers have said that there is a way of passing this Bill that's going to help the children. Now, can you just tell me, if you pass this Bill today, how is Johnny going to do better in math, 57 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 and how is Suzy going to read better? What reforms can the taxpayers and the citizens expect to receive in their various school districts that is going to help our children do a better job? How does the money equate to a better school system?"
"The Ikenberry Commission Report, working with Coopers and Lybrand, did an analysis of high performance districts and the cost of providing a quality education. It was their conclusion that a foundation level, a base level, a minimum adequacy level of $4225 per child, gave you the best shot at that. The other issue in this Bill, in addition to seeing to it that we fund children at $42 hundred per year, the 6 to 7 hundred thousand children whose school districts can't meet that number, the other quality improvement is that we will have the most qualified school teachers in the nation if this Bill passes. We will have strong standards for initial certification, and for recertification for every public school teacher in the State of Illinois. That's how we're going to help make sure that every Johnny, and every Janie, not just in your district, not just in mine, but every Johnny and Janie in this state have a chance to learn to read, to work a computer, and to discover math abilities."
"Okay, so ...So, in essence, you think that there will be marked improvements to the individual student, especially those that are in the poorer school districts?
"Yes."
"Let me ask you this, what if what happened in Kansas City happens, where the test scores go down? Can the taxpayers expect to get a refund on the money they're spending if, in fact, we don't see any real improvements in these test scores of, not only the poorer school districts, but in all 58 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 the districts in this state?"
"Representative, I have every confidence that we will see improvements when we pass Senate Bill 645."
"Okay, well, Representative... Mr. Speaker, Representative Clayton would like to yield her time to me."
"The Lady yields her time."
"Thank you very much. You talk about a 'hold harmless' provision in this legislation. Can you share with my school districts that have shown hundreds of millions of dollars of loss under this plan, how you are expecting to protect my school districts on this? How does that 'hold harmless' work?"
"The 'hold harmless', which amounts to $20 million of the $614 million, is targeted to those school districts who, by virtue of the unweighting of high school students, or the recalculation of the Poverty Grant, would otherwise get less from the state in the next fiscal year, than they get in this. The 'hold harmless' would continue in years two, three, and four as long as it's needed, and the dollar amount will continue to decline. Parke: So, you've added that in from..."
"So no school district will lose money, because we are targeting poverty dollars to the districts with large numbers of poor kids, and because we are unweighting the high school students."
"Of course, under your scenario, very few suburban school districts will get any additional state money. Isn't that true, until the 'hold harmless' is over?"
"It depends on ...it depends on where that suburban school district is, and it depends on what it is able to generate from local sources. Those districts will continue to get a $214 flat grant if they do not qualify otherwise 59 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 for the formula, and of course, as you know, we're talking in this Bill about the formula, not about the categoricals your suburban districts get from the state, not about the money that we send them for transporting students, not about the money we send them for gifted education, or bilingual education. So, yes, your school districts will fare just fine."
"Just fine. Well, when our school districts want to go to having a new teacher contract, or any other union contract, they won't have any additional growth from the state to do those contracts, except for the EAV increases. And when the public utilities raise their cost as they do and they need to do, my school district won't have any additional funds to pay those utilities."
"Well, do they today? What does the formula do for your districts today? I can't believe that you're getting a lot."
"Under the formula some of my school districts are increasing the amount, you're changing it. And, not only that, but you're taking from all the high school districts in this state and changing their funding from 1.25 per pupil, to 1 per pupil. So, every high school district in this state will get less money under your plan. Isn't that true?"
"The 'hold harmless' will see to it that they don't. And, of course, you understand the justification for treating every child as a child, not treating some children as if they're a child and a quarter. The educational justification is that there was never a reasoned explanation for that additional weighting at the high school level, and we understand increasingly, the importance of early childhood education, and it's time to 60 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 put some of our resources there."
"Well, okay. Is there any local share involved in your plan, or are we just going to go to every school district that's not a 4225, and just simply just make up the difference between what they're paying now, and take ... or is there a local share component for their educational budget?"
"There is, and the way it works is that we will calculate the rate based on the expectation that they are at three for high school and 2.2 for unit, and 1.1 for elementary. If, in fact, they're not taxing at that rate, the state will not pick up that difference. We will assume that that's the rate that they are charging themselves. And the reason for that, is that were we to say we'll make up the local share, we'll make up the local difference, we would encourage every school district to lower their rates. Obviously, that's not the point of this plan."
"Okay. Mr. Speaker, to the Bill."
"Proceed."
"I appreciate the comments, the feedback. Again, we have a matter of how we interpret this legislation to be. The Republicans have another Bill. We have another approach. I hope the press takes time, if we're fortunate enough not to have it to pass, but we think we have an answer that will be fair to all the school systems, and in essence, does a lot of what you hope will be done in this Bill. We hope the Republican plan has an opportunity to be heard because we would like to see this Bill, this approach to solving the problem, to be defeated. If it is, great, then we want to come back and see if we can find a compromise with our plan. I will tell you that the suburban school districts are going to be adversely affected over a long 61 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 period of time if the Bill passes, that is presented on the Floor at this time. We are as concerned as our Democratic colleagues, as some of our downstate colleagues are, on trying to provide the best quality education for our children. This approach is not the approach we feel is good. So, I would ask that you vote 'no'."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Lopez."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"
"The Sponsor yields."
"For legislative intent, Representative, in regards to the Section H, which is entitled Supplemental General State Aid, Subsections 4(b) and 4(c), it is my understanding that the Chicago Board of Education cannot use Educational Services Block Grant Funds to implement this provision. Is that correct?"
"Correct."
"Is it the intent of this legislation that the Chicago Board of Education send the $261 million it receives under this provision directly to eligible schools for supplemental educational programs only?"
"Correct."
"Thank you."
"The Lady from Kane, Representative Deuchler."
"Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"
"The Sponsor yields."
"Representative Currie, can you explain to us your legislative intent in terms of how the property tax relief will operate, functionally? Do we appropriate a sum of money that then goes back to the counties or, how do the mechanics of this work?"
"The mechanics work this way. The Department of Revenue will certify how much is expected to be in the income tax 62 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 fund, the targeted fund in the treasury, to provide property tax relief. On the basis of the dollar amount, the calculation will be made how much property tax relief is available. Those dollars... the county clerks will then take the percentage reduction and apply it at the end of the property tax billing system. So you'll have your Bill, it will say you're paying this much for this purpose and this much for that purpose, and then there will be a little line that says, 'Because of Representative Currie's generosity in the Illinois General Assembly, you will see a 28% reduction in your property taxes for schools.' So the property taxpayer will see that bright red letter information, that $7 hundred reduction on the $4 thousand property tax bill, will see that calculated in the bill and then the new dollar amount will be the amount owed. The school districts will get their money through the same local county collection agent. That is all the dollars that funded that 27 or 28% property tax relief will go to the county clerks and treasurers, who will then direct those dollars to the school districts on a dollar for dollar basis. So, the local property taxes the schools lose will come dollar to dollar back to them by the same county clerks and treasurers who organize the collection of property taxes. School districts will not lose a single penny of their own locally generated money in not only year one, but in all ensuing years."
"Do you know, are the county clerks, do they have the mechanics or the computer software in order? Is that in place now for ...in order for them to compute these monies?"
"We have been working with the county clerks on the mechanical questions, and it's my understanding that we 63 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 believe this is doable."
"Doable may not mean that the system exists, but you're saying that they do have the capability?"
"We will make sure that this is something the county clerks can do."
"Also, you mentioned that this money, the property tax relief would appear at the last installment. Is that your intent or would it be spread over the two installments, which would seem to me much better?"
"My understanding is that it will appear twice. It will be on the first installment as well as in the second."
"So that their property taxes would be reduced each time..."
"Yes."
"...That they pay their installment? Well, in view of the property tax relief, which is very important to my district, and in view of the severity of the long-term interest of the Illinois schools in moving from property tax reliance to a fairer income tax distribution, I do stand in support of your legislation."
"The Gentleman from Vermilion, Mr. Black."
"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I..."
Speaker Brunsvold: "Please no demonstrations from the balcony. Mr. Black."
"Yeah, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I've been listening to debate very carefully. I detect there's a difference of opinion on the Bill. We downstaters are very perceptive that way. First of all, let me just make it clear, because it was implied yesterday in committee that Representative Currie and I failed to mention that there was a tax increase in this 64 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 Bill. Hello, there is a tax increase in this Bill. I would submit to you that any plan, whether it comes from our side of the aisle, your side of the aisle, or the center of the aisle, any plan to address the funding reform of education in Illinois will have a tax increase in it. Now, that's the bottom line. There is no plan that I've heard discussed in my years here that does not include some kind of a tax increase to change the way we fund education. The interesting part of the proposal we are debating now, is that it does have a property tax relief component, and I have said to people in my district for a number of years that if we could get that switch I will be voting 'aye'. Five years ago in this Chamber, last month, I supported putting a Constitutional Amendment Referenda on the ballot. It was not a popular decision, as I recall, then. I hope today turns out better than five years ago. I would submit to you that in November of 1992 that referendum passed in 96 of the 102 counties of this state, and the referenda clearly stated that it shall be the preponderance of the State of Illinois shall furnish the preponderance of ...money to fund public education in Illinois. It passed in 96 counties. It failed in 6 counties. It got 1.8 million votes, but under our system it failed to get 60% of those voting on the question, it got 57%. Both counties that I represent voted in favor of that proposal. For more than 15 years we have convened blue ribbon committees, blue ribbon panels, the Ikenberry Report, I could name a dozen. They've all said essentially the same thing. We have become reliant on the property tax to the detriment of many of our communities. I would submit to you that seldom in your career of public service are you given an opportunity to cast a vote which makes systemic, fundamental, and yes, 65 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 even historic changes in the way government does business. This is one of those occasions, and if I am the only one to vote for it I will say this, I will cast my vote to make historic, systemic, and fundamental changes in the way we fund education in the State of Illinois. Some of my colleagues have said, and some of it hurts and some of it rolls off my back, that I have abandoned my Republican roots. Well, I would say to the Gentleman in the rear of the Chamber, my roots go back much further than his. One of the things my grandfather and father taught me about Republican ideals was that, you know, you need to give everybody opportunity. Give them the tools to do what they can do and then get government out of the road and let them utilize the opportunity. There is no greater tool we can give people today than the opportunity for an education. In many parts of my district it is not an equal opportunity. Not because we don't want to, but because all we have in some communities to tax are our mother and father's homes and farm ground. Many communities in my district do not have movie theaters. They have no retail business of any kind, they simply have homes and farm ground and they do the best they can. And if you don't think we don't try hard, who has the highest educational tax rate in the State of Illinois? It is Cairo, Illinois, followed closely by East St. Louis. Without equal opportunity that violates one of my most sincere held beliefs in the Republican philosophy. Can I guarantee you that, if you help give us an equal or at least a more level field for opportunity that, everybody's test scores will go up, that the graduation rate will increase? I can't make you that guarantee. I can tell you this. With some of the reforms that are in this package, I think we can begin to 66 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 address those concerns honestly and forthrightly, because when you go home, regardless of how you vote on this Bill, what are you going to tell a child who quits school today? What are they going to do tomorrow? Just simply, by this, or some other plan, I'm not wedded to any plan, I'm just simply telling you the challenge before us is to give each child a relatively equal opportunity to access a quality education and then get out of that child's road and hopefully, that child will take advantage of that opportunity and go on to become a contributing citizen to the State of Illinois, or wherever that child ends up. I can't guarantee that. There'll still be dropouts. There'll still be discipline problems. You know, folks, no Bill that is crafted by human beings is perfect. We can't do that. The inspiration for education has to come from the home, that hasn't changed since I was a first grader. It's more important now, and I would submit, contrary to what somebody said in the Committee of the Whole Meeting, kids today, in many areas of the state, particularly in some areas in my district, are not coming to school prepared to learn. They can't count to three, they don't recognize colors, and that takes a great deal of money, one on one and remedial work to get that child up to where some of the other children in this state are. We can't do all of that. The disintegration of the family is a whole other issue, but that's a very important ingredient in anything we do today. So, yes, I rise to support this Bill. I will vote for the Bill. All I can ask any of you, whether it be my colleagues or my former colleagues, my friends, if I have any left, or my former friends, give us an opportunity statewide. Just give us an opportunity to level the playing field, let our locally elected boards and let our 67 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 locally hired teachers do the very best they can with better resources and maybe, no, not maybe, hopefully, and I think I can almost guarantee it, we will produce a better generation of children, but we must provide the funds and the backing to give each child in this state that opportunity. And I would submit to you that you can either pay for it now, or you will pay for it later. Where are the prisons in this state? They aren't in the suburban counties. They're in my counties. We spend $17 thousand a year, on average, to keep a prisoner locked up in our prisons and yet, we don't seem to bat an eye that some districts doing all they can do, can only spend $3 thousand per year to educate a child. Yes, there's a tax increase in this Bill. Of the 44 states that have an income tax, we are the second lowest. If this Bill becomes law, we will be the third lowest. Give kids an opportunity. We've talked about it for 15 years. I think it's time to act. This Bill should come as no surprise to anyone who has been here more than a year. It's time to vote. I vote 'aye'."
"The Minority Leader, Representative Daniels."
"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, would it surprise you to find out that I agree with everything Bill Black said, except for his conclusion? Would it surprise you to say that, once again, Bill Black has shown himself to be a leader in this state, to be a person with vision, a person with an understanding of the problems throughout Illinois as it relates to education, and a compassionate individual? He is my friend. He's been my friend for years, and he will be my friend tomorrow, and he will be my friend for the rest of our lives. I respect him highly, but we both have come to different conclusions. Maybe for the same reasons, we just reach different 68 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 results. Bill comes at it from a standpoint of his community, as he should, and the strength of his belief that money will solve many of the problems throughout Illinois. He knows that money alone will not solve that. I understand that. That's why he referred to parental involvement, commitment, and dedication from all Illinois citizens. He knows in his heart that there is a ton of new dollars in this state that has resulted from the excellent fiscal management that has been brought to Illinois by Governor Edgar and, frankly, by Members of this Legislature. In the last two years we had unprecedented growth. In the last two years we developed unprecedented programs that helped, not only address our fiscal matters, but also talked to a great extent about what this state needed to do in education. A Democrat Member of the House just came over to me and he looked at me and he said, 'You know, we're here today because of what you guys did over the last two years.' He caught me a little bit by surprise because I wasn't sure where he was going with that, and I said, 'What do you mean?' He said, 'Do you realize that when you reformed Chicago schools and you gave the mayor of the City of Chicago the tools in which to reform those schools, that you set in motion the opportunity to deal with reforming statewide schools?' and he was right. We did do that. We did that together. We did that in an unprecedented sense. No other large school district in the United States of America is making the strides like are being made today in the City of Chicago, and every one of us in this Assembly ought to take great pride in that. Last year we dealt with substantive reform and we started in motion improving the classroom, giving teachers better tools to operate, developing standards, and exit exams, and 69 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 that Bill called Quality First passed the General Assembly, was signed by the Governor as law today. Once again dealing with the very important issues of education reform, addressing those programs that Bill Black believes so strongly in. But today, we're faced with another Bill, and right now we're looking at a matter of debate over whether or not we should increase the income tax. Now, let me try to tell you where I'm coming from. Today, as we call the Illinois Economic and Fiscal Commission, Ladies and Gentlemen, this is our branch. This is the branch of government that advises us, the Members of the General Assembly, on the tax status and fiscal matters. This isn't the Bureau of the Budget, which is a partisan bureau that works for the administration. This is the group, Illinois Economic and Fiscal Commission, that comprises Democrat leaders and Republican leaders and advises us in fiscal matters, and today they tell us, May 29, the new revenue growth in this state, our checkbook balance, the dollars that are available to us in new growth over last year stands at $989 million. I look at that money and I say, 'Now, what does $989 million represent?' About 10% of our available dollars in budgeting, but it also represents this, that's $989 million more that we're extracting from taxpayers this year than we did last year, and we did nothing in order to generate that money, other than to encourage economic boom, economic expansion, job development, and a great place to do business known as the State of Illinois. And we did that over the last two years by setting the policy programs that added jobs to this state. Do you realize that today we have a personal income growth, as of May 29, of 8.3% in this state? Now, why does that become so important, because some of you would say, 70 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 'Okay, we understand that. That's an important issue, but in the final analysis, we still need more money for schools.' You are absolutely correct, and Bill Black was correct when he said that, and that's why the program that we are talking about deals with those critical issues that we must agree upon. This isn't a debate today on education reform, because we all understand the reform that's needed. One, we know that every school district in this state ought to have a minimum foundation level of $4,225. There is nobody in this Chamber that disagrees with that. Put that up for a vote, and it passes like that, unanimously, no opposition. Two, academic reforms. There's not a Member of this Assembly that doesn't have his or her views on how we should reform some of the standards and academics of this state. Now, we may come at it in a different way, whether it's on teacher certification, or as Mr. Madigan wanted, to abolish tenure in this state. Those are different views than some of us have. But, we do come at it in different ways, but we all agree on the basic principle that there must be academic reforms in this Bill. Three, the House Republican Organization, as you know, stood strong for school construction grant reforms and basically, addressing the infrastructure system of the State of Illinois. That means to say that when you look at those videos that were so well done all over the state, where a child was in a classroom that was too small, or there was a closet that had the storing of various chemical matters for chemistry lab that was sitting there, that meant that we wanted to improve that classroom. We wanted to improve the infrastructure system where kids learn, and that's why we came up with a $4.5 billion School Construction Grant Program not matched by any other program 71 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 in this state that would put real dollars into your school district to help reform your schools and improve that structural system where kids learn. We felt that when taxpayers really needed our help, that was an area we could help at the most. That's the third, and fourth, property tax relief. Now, Ladies and Gentlemen, I come from an area that depends heavily on property taxes relief to fund their schools, but I also know many of you, whether you come from Springfield, or Champaign, or Carbondale, or other parts of the state, are experiencing the same thing that Bob Churchill is experiencing in Lake County, or Judy Biggert in DuPage, or others throughout this State of Illinois. You're seeing a growth in your EAV, which then accesses higher tax dollars, and it allows the schools to have more dollars, but you, then, receive less state assistance. An overreliance on property taxes. That's true, there's no question about it, and we don't disagree with that. We think property tax relief is an important component. Well, if it's so important, why doesn't this Bill have as a dedicated source, a dollar for dollar tax swap that you can do nothing else with the dollars other than use it for property tax relief, and only raise the necessary dollars for that tax swap? Instead, what are we doing? We're talking about education reform, and Members on the other side of the aisle are confusing the issue by putting money into it, and saying that's the only way you can reform your schools. Everything that we've talked about, everything we've talked about is affordable and can be done by living within our means. Let's examine another issue, $989 million in new revenue growth. Uncontroverted fact. That's your own commission that tells you what that amount is. Now, add to that the proposed income tax increase, 72 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 $1.5 billion. Do the people of Illinois understand that what the Members of this Assembly are asking them is for $2.5 billion in new funds this year over last year? Two point five billion. Are you going to go back home and tell them, 'Oh, we forgot about the new revenue growth, the new taxes that you paid to us because of your higher salaries and greater income. We set that aside, we just need another 1.5 billion.' What are you going to do with it? You know what you're going to do with it. You are going to build the cost of government. Now, this is where Republicans start moving in a different direction. We start saying that less government is better, and we start saying that less tax burden is better. So, where are we on this whole discussion? I agree with 99% of what Bill Black just said, who comes to a different conclusion, and I respectfully understand that. But, I disagree with what all of you are saying on the other side, that we need to raise the income tax to accomplish those results. We should be warned by the wisdom of the past. John Marshall said, 'The power to tax involves the power to destroy. The power to destroy may defeat, and render useless the power to create.' Ladies and Gentlemen, we cannot tax the working families of Illinois to create a fairly funded education system, because in the end we'll wind up destroying both. What is being suggested here is an obscene amount in income taxes that are unnecessary in order to accomplish every one of the four goals that I have just outlined for you. Unless you not understand how serious we were about it, we did come out with a plan called Improve Illinois Schools. In the Improve Illinois School Program outlines exactly how we can do this in fashion that is clear for everyone to understand. Oh, we 73 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 don't suggest that there aren't some items that we should work with. How many of you in the last election talked about increasing the tax on riverboats? Frankly, I think I knew almost every one of your campaigns, and as I look out on the other side of the aisle, I think just about every one of you said, we ought to increase the tax on the riverboat owners. Well, we are doing nothing different than what you suggested, what the Governor suggested before. We can generate enough dollars in handling it without the income tax to improve our schools. So, as we move forward on this debate, whether this Bill passes or not, I don't think you're going to see this Bill ending up on the Governor's desk. And what bothers me the most is that many of you know that. And what bothers me the most is that you're asking Members to vote on an income tax increase of 25%. You're stringing them out at the highest level, knowing that that Bill will never end up on the Governor's desk, and then some other compromise will come in at a lower level. So, you're strung out at the highest of levels. You know, that's an unfortunate way to do things. We can do a better job. We can meet a better responsibility to Illinois citizens and meet everything that Bill Black stands for, everything that he believes in, every improvement of Illinois schools, from the bottom of the state to the top of the state, and continue on with the programs to make this a better state to live. I suggest vote 'no' on this Bill. Go back to work. Don't leave Springfield until you get the job done, but in a responsible fashion. Thank you."
Speaker Brunsvold: "The Gentleman from Champaign, Mr. Tim Johnson." Johnson, Tim: "Mr. Speaker, I Move the Previous Question." 74 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997
"The Gentleman Moves the Previous Question. All in favor say 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it and the previous question has been moved. Representative Currie to close."
"Thank you, Speaker and Members of the House. It's tempting to think that we don't have to raise taxes, raise the income taxes in order to do the job that everyone assures us is a job we must do. But, let me tell you, for all the blather, for all the talk about a billion dollars in new revenues, let me tell you that the Economic and Fiscal Commission says, 774, the Bureau of the Budget says, 669. Let me remind you that the Governor's budget proposed allocations of those new revenues, allocations of money already going to the schools, allocations of dollars going to take care of people who are in our state mental institutions, dollars going to the prisons that we need to open downstate. You can take all of that money, but then how are you going to fund mental health, corrections, and all of the other responsibilities we have taken? If you look at the dollars, what you have in the rosiest of rosy scenarios, is a hundred million dollars to allocate in the next fiscal year, that we didn't think we had when we started with the Governor's budget in March. A hundred million dollars, unfortunately, won't buy you substantial property tax relief, and it will not begin to buy you equality of educational opportunity. It would be nice to think we could get away with it that easily. The fact is, we can't. So, if you believe, with Representative Black, that equality of educational opportunity is our responsibility, if you believe it's time for us to step up to the plate, and do the job, don't be afraid you'll be strung out with the 'yes' vote on Senate Bill 645. This is 75 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 the right thing to do, and this is the time to do it. I urge your support for the school children, not just in your own districts, but across the State of Illinois. Those 7 hundred thousand school children, they are Illinois children, they are our children. Let us vote now for those youngsters."
"The question is, 'Shall Senate Bill 645 pass?' All in favor vote 'aye'; all opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. And on that question ...and on that question there are 62 voting 'yes'; and 56 voting 'no'. And there's been a verification request. Mr. Johnson, for what reason do you rise?" Johnson, Tim: "May I have leave to be verified?"
Speaker Brunsvold: "Mr. Cross, I think, has requested the verification."
"And we persist with our verification."
Speaker Brunsvold: "Mr. Johnson asks leave to be verified, Tim Johnson. Is there leave? Mr. Clerk, read the Affirmative Roll Call."
Clerk Rossi: "Poll of those voting in the affirmative. Representatives: Acevedo. Black. Boland. Bradley. Brosnahan. Brunsvold. Bugielski. Burke. Currie. Curry, Julie. Dart. Davis, Monique. Davis, Steve. Terry Deering. Deuchler. Erwin. Fantin. Feigenholtz. Flowers. Fritchey. Gash. Giglio. Giles. Granberg. Hannig. Hartke. Holbrook. Howard. Johnson, Tim. Jones, Lou. Jones, Shirley. Kenner. Lang. Lopez. Lyons, Joseph. Mautino. McGuire. McKeon. Mitchell. Moffitt. Moore, Eugene. Morrow. Murphy, Harold. Novak. Phelps. Pugh. Ronen. Ryder. Santiago. Schakowsky. Schoenberg. 76 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 Scott. Scully. Silva. Slone. Smith. Stroger. Turner. Weaver. Woolard. Younge, and Mr. Speaker."
"Questions of the affirmative? Mr. Cross, Mr. Tim Johnson has requested leave."
"That's fine. Representative Deering?"
"Representative Deering is in his chair."
"Representative Brosnahan?"
"Mr. Brosnahan is at his desk."
"Representative Scully?"
"Mr. Scully is in his ...at his desk."
"Representative Slone?"
"Representative Slone is at her desk."
"Representative Giglio?"
"Representative Giglio is at his desk."
"Representative Steve Davis?"
"Representative Steve Davis is in his seat."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker."
Speaker Brunsvold: "Anything further, Mr. Cross? On this question, there are 62 voting 'yes'; 56 voting 'no'; and 0 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of Concurrence appears House Bill 1375, Mr. Capparelli. Out of the record. Mr. Cross, for what reason do you rise?"
"We just wonder what we're doing, Mr. Speaker. Did we adjourn?"
"No, Mr. Cross. We're kind of letting the intensity of the hour kind of...everyone get their discussions..."
"Are there any other Bills we should be looking for?"
"We have other issues we can go to in just a few minutes." 77 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997
"Okay, thank you."
Speaker Brunsvold: "On Supplemental Calendar #1 appears House Bill 1121. Representative Julie Curry."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A Conference Committee Report to House Bill 1121 makes some technical changes to a Bill that we have already addressed, previously, in this Chamber in House Bill 601, which created the Automobile Leasing Occupation and Use Tax Act. Basically, this is a cleanup Bill that was offered by the Department of Revenue to make some technical changes in the legislation so it could be implemented properly. Be happy to answer any questions."
"The Lady has moved for the adoption of the First Conference Committee Report to House Bill 1121. Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Parke."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"The Sponsor yields."
"Representative, is this addressing the underlying Bill and bringing some technical changes to it to make it more acceptable, or have you molded into this Conference Committee other pieces of legislation? Could some staff please help Representative on this?"
"It made the technical changes to House Bill 601, which was incorporated into my Bill, House Bill 1121."
"So, the underlying Bill is still there?"
"Yes."
"And you've molded in (sic-House Bill) 601 into it also?"
"Yes, Sir."
"What does (sic-House Bill) 601 do?"
"(sic - House Bill) 601 creates the Automobile Leasing Occupation and Use Tax Act that was introduced in House Bill 601, and Representative Art Turner was the Sponsor of that Bill and I'd be happy to allow him to elaborate 78 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 further."
"I would appreciate that."
Speaker Brunsvold: "Mr. Parke ...Mr. Parke, Representative Curry would like to yield to Representative Turner, who's the original Sponsor of House Bill 601."
"That would be fine."
"Mr. Turner. Turner, A.: "Go ahead."
Speaker Brunsvold: "Mr. Turner will answer questions regarding House Bill 601." Turner, A.: "Representative."
"Yes, I just wanted to know, this is the Bill that passed out of here with a huge number of votes, right, (sic-House Bill) 601?" Turner, A.: "Yes, it is."
"Why did you incorporate that Bill back into a Conference Committee? What transpired in the Senate with the House and for us..." Turner, A.: "There was some language that the Department of Revenue wanted to be put in place. And so that, in essence, what we did is we took the language that the Department of Revenue wanted and we put it in the Bill. And then we just resubmitted the entire Bill again."
"Do you know of anyone opposed to your (sic-House Bill) 601 cleanup language?" Turner, A.: "I know no opposition to the cleanup language. In fact, the Department of Revenue is still opposed to the Bill, but the cleanup language, which they thought, made it a Bill which is much more agreeable and much more palatable. I know of no other opposition to the legislation. This legislation will provide no loss of revenue to any local units of government so, there is no 79 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 loss of monies. In terms of State Government, what we're doing is giving up the current sales tax that we collect from leasing companies on these cars, and we're now going to tax the gross receipts of the lease agreement itself, and so that is the, in essence, the legislation."
"Okay so, my municipal conference and my local villages have signed off on this now?" Turner, A.: "They signed off on the original Bill, and they ...it's my understanding that they're okay with the cleanup language on this Bill. Again, it does not affect local government, in the sense that they will no longer ...or they will not lose any revenue as the result of this change."
"Thank you, Representative Turner. Representative Curry, on your underlying Bill, has there been any changes in that underlying Bill, and was it voted out of here earlier?"
"Yes, Sir."
"And has there been any changes to it ...Since it left here, has the underlying Bill been changed?"
"In the original Bill, the mineral rights that were offered at the scavenger sale reverted back to the surface owner. In the Conference Committee Report, it changes that. So, simply that the mineral rights do not have to be offered for sale at the scavenger sale after 10 years. That would be the only change."
"Thank you, Representative. Since everyone has agreed to this except for the Revenue Department, we'll let the Body decide which is the best vote. Thank you."
Speaker Brunsvold: "Thank you. The Lady from Lake, Representative Andrea Moore. Do you wish to question the..." Moore, A.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just rise in support of 80 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 this and this is a technical Amendment that was absolutely necessary so that the municipal Amendment that was on originally, would do what we intended it to do. At last, we had good cooperation from the Department of Revenue with this very complicated language, and I would urge your support of this Amendment ...of this Conference Committee Report."
Speaker Brunsvold: "Is there any further discussion on the adoption of the Conference Committee Report? Seeing none, the question is, 'Shall the House adopt the First Conference Committee Report on House Bill 1121?' This is final action. All in favor vote 'aye'; all opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. And on this question, there are 118 voting 'yes'; 0 voting 'no'; 0 voting 'present'. And the House does adopt the first Conference Committee Report on House Bill 1121. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Black is recognized for a Motion."
"It's very kind of you to recognize me, Sir. I would move that the House stand adjourned."
Speaker Brunsvold: "Allowing Perfunctory time for the Clerk, Mr. Black has moved that the House stand adjourned until Friday, May 30th, at the hour of 1:00 p.m. All in favor say 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it and the House does stand adjourned until Friday, May 30, at the hour of 1:00 p.m."
Clerk Bolin: "The House Perfunctory Session will come to order. Introduction of House Resolutions. House Resolution 193, offered by Representative Feigenholtz; House Resolution 194, offered by Representative Feigenholtz; House 81 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 71st Legislative Day May 29, 1997 Resolution 195, offered by Representative Dart; and Senate Joint Resolution #35, offered by Representative Erwin." Having no further business, the House Perfunctory Session stands adjourned. The House will reconvene in regular Session, Friday, May 30th, at 1:00 p.m." 82