"The House shall come to order. The Members shall be in their chairs. We shall be led in prayer by Reverend Lee Crawford, the Assistant Pastor of the Victory Temple Church in Springfield. The guests in the gallery may wish to rise and join us in the invocation."
"Let us pray. Most gracious and eternal God, abide with us. Inspire all of our thoughts. Pervade our imaginations. Suggest all of our decisions. Order all of our steps, as well as our doings. Be with us into silence, as well as in our speech; in our haste, as well as in our leisure; in company and in the weariness of this day. Give us grace at all times to humbly rejoice in Your great and glorious companionship. For this we will be forever thankful. This we pray. Amen."
"We shall be led in the Pledge of Allegiance by Representative Hartke."
Hartke - et al: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Speaker Madigan: "Roll Call for Attendance. Representative Currie."
"Speaker, please let the record show that Representative Morrow is excused today."
"Mr. Cross."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We're all here on the Republican side."
"Mr. Clerk, take the record. There are 117 Members responding to the Attendance Roll Call. There is a quorum present. Mr. Clerk."
Clerk Rossi: "Committee Reports. Representative Dan Burke, Chairperson from the Committee on Executive, to which the 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 following measures were referred, action taken on April 22, 1998, reported the same back with the following recommendation: 'do pass Short Debate', Senate Bill 1288; 'do pass Short Debate', Senate Bill 1547; 'do pass as amended Short Debate', Senate Bill 1307. Representative Bob Bugielski, Chairperson from the Committee on Financial Institutions, to which the following Bills were referred, action taken on April 21, 1998, reported the same back with the following recommendation: 'do pass Short Debate', Senate Bill 1380 and Senate Bill 1528. Representative Coy Pugh, Chairperson from the Committee on Human Services, to which the following Bills were referred, action taken on April 22, 1998, reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass Short Debate', Senate Bill 1383; 'do pass as amended Short Debate', Senate Bill 1473. Representative Tom Dart, Chairperson from the Committee on Judicial Law, Civil, for which the following measures were referred, action taken on April 22, 1998, reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass Short Debate', Senate Bill 1207, Senate Bill 1386 and Senate Bill 1755; 'do pass as amended Short Debate', Senate Bill 1700. Representative Jay Hoffman, Chairperson from the Committee on Transportation and Motor Vehicles, to which the following Bill was referred, action taken on April 21, 1998, reported the same back with the following recommendation: 'do pass Short Debate', Senate Bill 1695. Introduction and First Reading of Resolutions. House Resolution 422, offered by Representative Biggins, to the Rules Committee. House Resolution 423, offered by Representative Zickus, to the Rules Committee. Introduction and First Reading of Senate Bills. Senate Bill 1610, offered by Representative Mitchell, a Bill for 2 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 an Act to amend the School Code."
"Mr. Black."
"Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. An inquiry of the Chair, if I might."
"State your inquiry."
"Thank you. Mr. Speaker, it's been approximately two weeks since we were here, and in that time allegations have continued to surface in the press. Many of us are being asked questions by members of the press and constituents, wanting to know our response to an alleged ghost payrolling or perhaps even an alleged inducement to get a former Member of this House to resign his seat. We have not had any discussion of this from you or any Member of your staff. We would like an opportunity to get the air cleared on this matter so that we can proceed with the business of this chamber, but, Mr. Speaker, in all due respect, there is a cloud hanging over this chamber that affects each and every one of us, and I am afraid affects how we are to do the business of the House when a... when it's been alleged that the business of the House may be open to inducements or items of ghost payrolling. Mr. Speaker, I think you... it's incumbent upon you to enlighten the House as to what has happened in the Bradford case, and I would hope that you avail yourself of the opportunity, Mr. Speaker, to do that, to set our minds at ease and to let us know how the good name and the good work of this House will continue with the continual allegations that are surfacing in the press throughout the State of Illinois. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."
Speaker Madigan: "Mr. Black, might I respond to you? Mr. Black... Mr. Black, as you full well know, the matter that you referenced in your remarks is under investigation by 3 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 the State Police. Speaking for myself, I'm anxious to get the report of the State Police, and I plan to await that report so that I can comment further after the police have reported. Again, speaking for myself, and in terms of the work of the House, I plan to continue to work to try to eliminate abuses by HMO's. I plan to try to work to regulate the installation of hog farms all across the State of Illinois. And lastly, I plan to work to try and persuade the Senate to enact some form of campaign finance reform before the end of this session, but in the meantime, I am awaiting the report of the State Police. Mr. Black."
"Mr. Speaker, in all due respect to you, that deflection, the defense shields, if I might, may serve those in Washington, Sir, and I might say, and I'm biased, I don't think it serves any of us well. Don't turn it back on other issues, Mr. Speaker, address the question at hand. What is the status of the investigation? Have, in fact, the Illinois State Police taken any action, whatsoever? Who have they talked to? If we cannot address this in this chamber when it's this chamber that has been impacted, and every Member sitting in this chamber has been impacted, we expect answers. We expect you to assume the responsibility and let us know what has transpired and what actions you are taking to clear the name of this chamber. Don't deflect it back on ideas and things. If you want to do like Bill Clinton has done and do what Washington is doing, that's fine with me, but I don't think anybody in this chamber is going to accept that. It doesn't wash in Washington, it certainly isn't going to wash here."
"Mr. Black, again, you asked about the status of the investigation. The truth is, the investigation is being done by the State Police because of your action, and 4 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 you would be an appropriate person to call the State Police and ask them the status of the investigation. Mr. Churchill."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just again advise you, as you were advised before, this was something that was begun by one of the local press in Southern Illinois. It was nothing that we instigated, but I've known you for the sixteen years that I've been here and I always thought that you were a person that held this institution in high esteem, as I do, and that you understand, of course, that the institution preceded us and that after we're long gone, this institution is going to be here, and there are some things that have to be looked at on an institutional basis, and I think this is one of those things. We have a duty to police ourselves, and just because of the fact that the Illinois State Police may be doing an investigation, looking at things that the Illinois State Police investigate, does not mean that we shouldn't have a concurrent investigation going on in this Body to determine if something has occurred. We don't know, but we do know that we have a duty to police ourselves. If we don't police ourselves, why do we always have to wait for somebody else to police us? Let us police ourselves, and the way we do that is to try and investigate whether or not something bad occurred. Now, I suggest to you, Mr. Speaker, in all due respect, if you have some involvement in this or if you're a party to it or if you're somebody that's being investigated by this, recuse yourself at this point. Put someone else in charge of this and have an investigation in this Body, so that we can find out right here whether or not something has occurred. All we do is we're asking questions. We need the answers to those 5 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 questions, and to go on into other things and to talk about other issues and to say the State Police are investigating this does not absolve us of our own responsibility to police ourselves."
"Mr. Churchill, to you also. The matter's under investigation by the State Police, due in large part to your actions. If you have any questions regarding the status of the investigation, I would suggest you call the State Police and ask them. Mr. Rutherford."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When I was elected to this House in '92 and was sworn in, in '93, I came in with a great deal of pride. To serve in an institution that I'd looked at friends and colleagues in the past and the wonderful things they did for the State of Illinois. As time has gone on, I've looked back and had some lumps and tough times in both campaigns politically, out in the field and some tough decisions I've had to face right here in trying to represent 100,000 people. But the thing is, as I looked back on it, the thing that I'm most proud of is the integrity of this institution and the integrity of the House of Representatives. I believe in what's happened these past few weeks really is somewhat at stake. I think to quote some other... an entry on the journal here in the House of Representatives that this is another entry in the record of shame. And I think that in light of what's gone on and, yes, the State Police investigation is going on, and it should conduct its own course. I believe the question fairly put to you is, what are we doing henceforward to see that we do not have, and yet to be resolved by the State Police, administrative mistakes do not happen again here in this chamber and by this institution?" 6 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998
Speaker Madigan: "To you, Mr. Rutherford, I would say, the matter's under investigation by the State Police. If you have any questions relative to the investigation, you'd be well-advised to direct those questions to the State Police."
"Beyond that, beyond that. It's going to conduct itself. It's going to have its own analysis and answers to it, but I do recall having seen both your comments here on the House floor that there were administrative mistakes made. Let us assume that that may well be the case. What are we doing as an institution to protect our integrity to keep this from happening once again in the future?"
"Well, again, Mr. Rutherford, my plan is to await the report of the State Police."
"In deference to that comment and respect to waiting for the State Police report, self admittedly by the Speaker of this House, administrative mistakes were made. My question, irregardless of the State Police report, what are we doing to keep these administrative mistakes from happening again?"
"Again, Mr. Rutherford, the same answer. You should direct your questions to the State Police."
"I should direct my question as to how we keep administrative mistakes from happening in the House of Representatives to the State Police?"
Speaker Madigan: "Mr. Rutherford, I have stated earlier. The matter is under investigation by the State Police. I am awaiting the report of the State Police. If you have questions relative to the status of the investigation, questions relative to the conduct of the investigation, you ought to direct those questions to the State Police. Mr. Stephens, appearing out of virtue." 7 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998
"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know, we've kind of been down this road before. When we were in the Chair, much ranting and raving on the other side of the aisle about what you called 'Notegate'. And I have in my hands a letter signed by you, dated May 21 of 1995. 'Dear Speaker Daniels, While your attempt to divert attention from what the news media has dubbed 'Notegate', through the consideration of ethics and anti-crime legislation, as an interesting strategic move, I must inform you that your defense of the scandal is seriously flawed on at least two points, and I raise these issues so that you might consider your decision to ignore the scandal.' So you're here two years la... three years later, here you were before, you're accusing, then Speaker Daniels, of avoiding the scandal because he was doing it by a measure that you did not deem necessary. Whereas Mr. Daniels came to this House floor, went through the details of the situation at that time of what you called 'Notegate' and dealt with the issue internally. We understand that a criminal investigation is underway by the Department of State Police, and we're not asking the status of that investigation. We're not asking what further information we need to provide them with, or you need to provide them with. We want to know, Mr. Speaker, what did you do to this chamber, within your bounds as Speaker of the House, to ask a Member to leave for other, other consideration. We want to know, because without you removing that cloud from over this chamber, I don't know how we can proceed with the business of the day. And, yes, we want to proceed to deal with the issues that face Illinois today, but not with this cloud that hangs over us, Mr. Speaker. And you are the one, the only one in this chamber that can clear that cloud. You must tell us 8 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 what you knew, when you knew it, irregardless of the criminal investigation. We're talking about the way we run this chamber and, Mr. Speaker, it is incumbent upon you to address the questions that have been put before you this day and not to ignore them any further. You demanded the same of Speaker Daniels when he was in the Chair, and he came out here and forthrightly and honestly dealt with the issue. Have the same courage, Mr. Speaker, as Mr. Daniels had only three years before."
"Mr. Stephens, the matter is under investigation by the State Police. I will await the report of the State Police. To any further questions, direct them to the State Police. Mr. Ryder."
"...to the rest of my comments."
"Mr. Ryder."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm not going to inquire concerning the status of the State Police investigation. I don't know what that status is, and I don't believe that that's particularly relevant to that which we find ourselves discussing at this moment. What is a fact, because it's a fact that you admitted on the floor of this House, is that an administrative error in your office caused a former State Representative to receive just a little under $10,000 on a contract for which he admitted no work was done, for which you and your office admitted no work was done, and for which you admitted by requiring that Legislator to then return all of the money that he had received. What is interesting to note is that within a week after the time that that Legislator, in his very first term, left office that he received a contract from the State's Attorney at Madison County in the amount of $25,000 a year, and for which he received a contract from your 9 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 office in the amount of $20,000 a year, total $45,000, roughly equivalent to the salary of a first term Legislator. Within a week of leaving his office as a State Legislator, within six days of being replaced by the current occupant of that office. Those coincidences, which you indicate by your own admission in a letter, were as a result of a mistake in your office, or what causes this matter to be under discussion. Do not, Mr. Speaker, suggest that the investigation was caused by Republicans. We didn't cause it, Sir. It was the admitted error within your office, brought to your attention by a newspaper in Belleville, not the Republicans, but a newspaper, that caused the investigation to take place. We believe that there are answers that should come. It's obvious from the demeanor today that those answers will not be presented by the Speaker of the House, and as a result, we have to deal with that, but the fact of the matter is, this is not an issue that we brought, but rather an issue that was brought as a result of the press. And discussing other issues, other Bills, other items before the General Assembly are not sufficient to divert attention that has been created by the admitted error within your office. Thank you."
"Mr. Ryder, the matter is under investigation by the State Police. I plan to await the report of the State Police. Mr. Biggins."
"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Regarding the Bradford exchange, I think that we may be able to answer this quicker than maybe... we don't have to wait for the State Police to do their work. Three of the four participants in the Bradford exchange are in this chamber right now. One being the one who resumed his former House seat, and I think that we should ask Representative Hoffman to explain 10 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 his role. If he knew in advance that Mr. Bradford was resigning, that he would take his seat. What he did.... or if he knew that Mr. Bradford was going to get payment and a contract that required him to do no work for regaining his seat and what exchange there was from Mr. Hoffman's side for regaining the House seat that he once held before. Also, the Chief of Staff who signed the vouchers declaring that the work was performed is standing next to the Speaker of the House at the moment. Maybe we could ask him to take the microphone from you, Mr. Speaker, and answer some of the questions. All you have to do is tell us the truth. Tell us the three or four questions that we're asking. Give us the answers, and the whole state will know."
Speaker Madigan: "Mr. Biggins, the matter is under investigation by the State Police, and I will await the report of the State Police. Representative Krause."
"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Continuing on with the discussion that is before the House at this time, although it is important that the State Police continue with the investigation, it is equally the right of this House, and in fact, the duty of this House to also proceed with its own investigation of the matter that related to former Representative Bradford. It would be very important for this House and for the Chair to set up a commission, immediately, to look into this entire matter of which this commission would also have the power to issue subpoenas; and therefore, that the House could proceed with the authority of subpoenas to gather all of the information, along with what the State Police are doing to look into the negotiations which led up to the investigation and to the granting of the contract for former Representative Bradford, to subpoena in all phone records that issued out 11 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 of the Speaker's Office, as well as all written memorandum that could indeed lead to the information that is very important that be sought here. The fact that... the Speaker believes that this matter is being investigated by the State Police, in effect what is occurring here is that you are taking a Legislative Fifth Amendment, and it is the duty of this House, Mr. Speaker, to proceed at this time and to investigate this fully, and that is what I would ask of the Chair."
"Representative Krause, the matter is under investigation by the State Police, and I am awaiting the report of the State Police. Representative Cowlishaw."
"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, it seems to me that although, of course, the Speaker's answer is in keeping with the legalities of the matters at hand here today, there are other matters that it seems to me are every bit as important to the people of this state and to those of us who are elected to serve them. It seems to me, that if there is any validity at all to the allegations that have been brought forward here, then there is a serious abridgement of what ought to be a respect for the electoral process. We all understand that large sums of money are sometimes spent in order to win a seat in a chamber such as the U.S. House of Representatives, the Illinois House of Representatives, even a seat on a local government. But the question even beyond that is, is there some method by which highly powerful people can simply buy that seat away from the person that the people elected? Representative Bradford was elected by the people of his district, by a very slight margin to be sure, but he was the people's choice. And it would appear that if one of our top leaders 12 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 doesn't like one of us who, gets elected, all he has to do is buy us off. Twenty thousand dollars bought a seat away from Representative Bradford, if the allegations are correct. I find it difficult to believe that there is any way to defend interfering with the people's will through the electoral process and actually buying a seat away from someone who was duly and rightfully elected to hold that seat. I think that is a violation of something a whole lot more important to the people of Illinois than the law. Thank you."
Speaker Madigan: "Representative Cowlishaw, the matter's under investigation by the State Police, and I, like you, are waiting for the report of the State Police. Representative Andrea Moore." Moore, A.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the issue at hand. Although the matter is with the State Police, I suggest that should we call the State Police as you instructed us, their comments would be the same, wouldn't you agree? Wouldn't you agree, Mr. Speaker?"
"Have you concluded your remarks?" Moore, A.: "No, I was asking you a question, Mr. Speaker."
Speaker Madigan: "My answer is the answer I've given to others. The matter is under investigation by the State Police, and I am waiting for that report." Moore, A.: "And so my question was, should I call the State Police to check on this as you instructed a previous Member, what do you suppose their comment would be?"
"I wouldn't have any idea, but if you wish to do that, you ought to do it." Moore, A.: "Some of us wanted to know beyond the blanket answer that you're giving us here today, some of the details. I noticed that on the Calendar, you've extended the deadline 13 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 on a number of different Bills. One, regulating the farming community. Another one there regulating pension codes. Another one, regulating HMO's. My question to you is, who is regulating the House of Representatives here today? You are our Speaker, and we expect to hear something from you. You are our Leader, and though there are issues that are before the State Police, some of us have serious questions and it puts... it puts, quite frankly, a colleague of ours, Representative Hoffman, who I happen to both like and respect, he is in the most difficult of positions under these circumstances. I think that you owe an explanation to the Members of this House."
Speaker Madigan: "Representative, as I have said to others, the matter is under investigation by the State Police, and I am awaiting their report. Representative Biggert."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, have real questions about the serious violations in ethics and probably the law, which came up on this floor two weeks ago. I have grave concerns and obviously, many of my colleagues have grave concerns. The State Police may be investigating this matter, but they are doing it on a criminal level. But as a House Member, I think it is the duty and the duty of all of us to do our own housekeeping, and you certainly as our Leader. You were elected by this chamber to run this House, and I really am very disappointed that we cannot look to you for answers in what is happening in this matter. Thank you."
"Representative Lindner."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd really like to know what's going on. We have a lot of rumors around here and we always... the finger always points at one person, then the other, and you try and get to the bottom of things, but I 14 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 think I have some questions that you can answer, because I want to ask about the process, really the process of giving appointments. How you choose these? What criteria do you use? Did Mr. Bradford have to fill out any kind of application? What were his qualifications? Who oversees this? Do you give this to a group of people to oversee? If you designate somebody to sign the vouchers, do you check them yourself? What kind of system of checks and balances do you have to look at this? And I think those are questions that really have to do with the overall process and not with the investigation, so I would like some answers with respect to those questions, please."
Speaker Madigan: "Representative Lindner, the matter's under investigation by the State Police, and I am awaiting their report. Representative Leitch."
"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I think that the circumstances of this issue have been... are well-known to the Members. I also recall your statement that you would be reissuing a contract to former Representative Bradford, subsequent to the one which is the matter of this controversy. My question to you, Sir, is, have you issued another contract to Representative Bradford, or, if not, do you intend to wait until after the investigation of the State Police to consider doing that?"
Speaker Madigan: "Mr. Leitch, the matter is under investigation by the State Police, and I am awaiting their report."
"Sir, does that mean you will not reissue another contract to former Representative Bradford until after you have received such a report?"
Speaker Madigan: "It simply means that I am awaiting the report of the State Police."
"Thank you." 15 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998
"Thank you. Representative Pankau."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. April 2nd, when we were here, the House adjourned rather abruptly, and during that two weeks when we were home, there were many conversations and during those conversations, I would say at least once, sometimes twice, I was asked by constituents, by people at large, by different people who we had in the office, 'What's going on in Springfield, Carol? What's happening? Are people being bribed down in Springfield? Do you know anything about it? What's going on?' Then yesterday I come back here, Mr. Speaker, and it's like business as usual. It's like nothing happened. Mr. Speaker, you love this General Assembly. Mr. Speaker... Mr. Speaker, you love this General Assembly. I'm not asking you about a State Police investigation, I'm asking you, Sir, as one of the Members with me, please, Mr. Speaker, tell me the truth. You are the Leader. You deserve to tell us the truth, and that doesn't need a State Police investigation. Representative Madigan, tell me the truth."
"Representative, the truth is that I am awaiting a report of the State Police, and that's what I plan to do. Representative Wirsing."
"Mike."
"Representative Pankau."
"Mike, we don't need the State Police to tell us the truth. Just tell us what happened. You know it."
"Are you finished, Representative?"
"No. Please, tell us the truth."
Speaker Madigan: "Thank you, Representative Pankau. Representative Wirsing. Mr. Wirsing."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could I have a little order in the House, please? Mr. Speaker, could I have... some 16 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 order? Thank you. The reason that I asked for the opportunity to speak is that I take a great deal of pride as being a Member of the Illinois House. And I guess because of that, I certainly, back in my district, convey that to many of the constituents that I talk to about the way the legislation process works, that it's good. And I really appreciate that now, but I convey to them, certainly, the great pride that I have as their State Representative, and probably because of that, I'm getting questions from my constituents, not just what's going on, but what's going to be the resolve? What's going to be the resolve? How can we be sure that in the end, this matter has been dealt with in an appropriate and fair manner? My only alternative in responding to those constituents is to stand here today, to be on record in support of a lot of what... what we've already heard about the concern about this issue. And I guess what... if I might ask... I need to go back home and say that the Speaker of the Illinois House is going to do everything within his power, in working with the State Police, any of those involved in the investigation, to assure that it does come to a fair and appropriate end. And that's all that I'm asking for, is for your assurance that whatever request comes to you through the investigative process, I need something to go home and tell the constituents because you are my Speaker."
Speaker Madigan: "Mr. Wirsing, as I said, the matter's under investigation by the State Police and I plan to cooperate fully with the investigation. Fully. Thank you. Mr. Hoeft."
"Again, I repeat, could we have some order, please, in the chamber? The irony of this debate today is, Mr. Speaker, that the same week in which this story broke, you stood 17 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 there on the House Floor and we debated ethics... the Ethics Bill in this Legislature. And we debated it well, and when that Bill was voted on, on that scoreboard and this one, we had everyone voting 'green'. We voted for the idea of disclosure. We voted for the idea of openness. My direct question to you, Sir, is, in the Bill that you sponsored, did it have anything in it that said, 'We shall not be open until the State Police bring a report upon us?'"
Speaker Madigan: "Mr. Hoeft, as you full well know, this matter is under investigation by the State Police. I plan to fully cooperate with the investigation, and I will await the report of the State Police."
"Was it in your Bill, anything to deal with the State Police, their report, we do not have to be ethical until the State Police get their report done?"
"Again, Mr. Hoeft, I plan to await the report of the State Police. Representative Winters."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As you know, I am a relatively new Member to this chamber, and it is with trepidation that I speak on a weighty matter. I've enjoyed my time here, and I have particularly enjoyed my dealings with you. You have treated me honorably and in a cordial relationship. However, the question we have before us today is a painful one. It is a question of whether our Constitution is being subverted. Are you using taxpayer moneys to bribe a Member of this House to resign his seat, one that was bestowed on him by his own voters in his district? This seat that he holds was not within your power to bestow. It was bestowed by his voters. Did you use your position to destroy the integrity of this House, of this state, and of this Democracy to further your party's political position? Now, 18 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 I'm a... I'm not an attorney. I'm not used to making highfalutin language, if you will, that can obscure the truth. I appreciate very simple, straightforward answers. Speaker Daniels, three years ago, honored this house by coming before us and explaining the matter in detail. It was a much smaller problem that we faced three years ago than we do today. We are dealing with the subversion of the entire system of democracy that we enjoy in the United States that I simply ask you, will you do us the same honor, bare your soul, tell us what you did and did not do? And if the State Police investigation is so important that we do not deal with that now, I would ask that this matter be referred to our Special Committee on Conflicts. I believe Representative Johnson is the Chair of that. This needs to be discussed within the House, not simply within a court of law, but within the House. I would appreciate your cooperation on that."
"Representative Mulligan."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would certainly inquire as to your health. The way the gavel is being tapped certainly isn't very loud, and I do think that sometimes we have a problem with decorum in this Body. And it is good of you to do us the courtesy to hear all our Members speak, but I think if the desired effect is to cause general chaos in here by the Members on your side so that the discussion cannot be adequately heard, that does not speak well for this Body, and I find that that's exactly what's happening. Normally, when something like this is discussed, some of the aisles are cleared of Members who aren't supposed to be here, and the decorum is held to a greater standard than what's happening right now. So, although it's good of you to hear our concerns, I think this is an important matter, 19 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 and I think it does reflect on this Body, and I think that the Members should give it a little more consideration. Thank you."
"Mr. Cross. Mr. Black."
"In all due respect to you, Mr. Speaker, we can't hear anything in here. There are more non-Members on the floor than there are Members. It is within the power of the Speaker to clear the aisles, clear this chamber. I can't hear anything except what it seems to me to be the taking of the Fifth Amendment, and I don't think you want me to leave here thinking that that's all you've said."
"Could you speak a little louder?"
"Now, if I can't hear what you say, then I'm going to leave here and say, 'It appeared to me that he took the Fifth Amendment a hundred and twenty-three times.' Now, I ask you, clear this chamber, clear the chamber."
Speaker Madigan: "All unauthorized personnel shall leave the floor. All unauthorized personnel shall leave the floor. Mr. Cross."
"Mr. Speaker, we often find ourselves in a... times in this General Assembly where we find history repeating itself and maybe in the interest of bringing a little integrity to this situation and to this House, I can look back on some statements made by Members on your side of the aisle several years ago on an incident that, in comparison, is... a lot less severe than what's going on right now. Your Majority Leader at this time, Representative Currie, said the following, 'Mr. Speaker, the point of the matter is that you ought to welcome this opportunity to clear the air and clear the name of this institution. What are you afraid of, Speaker? What's the problem? Don't you want to clear your name and clear the air? There's nothing wrong, 20 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 nothing wrong with moving expeditiously so that we can get on to the business that makes a major difference to the people of this state. We want to make sure that this House maintains its integrity, and we would hope that you would welcome our help in making sure that it does.' These are the words of our colleague, Representative Currie, back in, on May 19th of '95. Certainly, she's well-respected now and was well-respected then, and I would hope that she would join us in clearing up these questions, that I would hope you would respect her comments, not only from then, but now. I have some other comments that were made that I think we need to address by one of your Representatives. Mr. Speaker, it's a question real simple, real straightforward. Do you and your party stand for integrity, or not? The answer is obviously no and is obviously no now. There could be nothing more important for us to be doing in this chamber right now than trying to clear the air. The foul smell that has been given to this place, this new open government, believe it or not, I think if your lawyers will take a look at the statute books, what has occurred, and believe it or not, is a criminal violation. We had a crime occur. If you care to cover that up, go right ahead, but let's get to the bottom of it now. There is no piece of business that is more important than trying to give us back a little bit of integrity in this place right now. It's an utter disgrace if you push this off. We ought to handle this right now. Mr. Speaker, I could go on and on, and back then and now, we need to address this right now. Some of the questions that need to be asked and need to be answered are... some of the specifics about the contract involving Representative Bradford. What work, if any, did he do? What work, if 21 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 any, did he not do? And can we get an answer right now from you on that answer... or on that question?"
"Mr. Cross, I, like you, am awaiting the report of the State Police."
"... What are we expecting from the State Police, Mr. Speaker?"
"You would know better than I. You would know better than I."
"I really don't know."
Speaker Madigan: "If you have questions as to what they shall report, I would suggest you call them."
"Within the internal ... workings of this institution, Mr. Speaker, I don't believe the State Police have any jurisdiction. What can we expect out of the Speaker's Office in handling this matter internally?"
"The matter is under investigation by the State Police. I will cooperate fully with the investigation of the State Police, and I am awaiting their report."
"Mr. Speaker, in your own words back three years ago, you said, 'We call upon you to determine the scope of this fraud. The identity of all persons who perpetrated or had knowledge of this fraud, and to immediately terminate any such employee. We further call upon you to institute immediate disciplinary proceedings against any Legislator committing a malfeasance.' Going back to the employees, Mr. Speaker, can we expect from you, prior to the State Police conducting or concluding their investigation, that you will terminate any employees that acted improperly?"
"I will await the report of the State Police."
"When can... can you tell us when the State Police, when you expect the State Police to conclude this?"
"No, I do not know." 22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998
"How do you expect the integrity of this institution to be replaced if you don't act on the violations that allegedly have taken place?"
"I will await the report of the State Police."
"Do you believe, as you called for three years ago, that your employees, pending the outcome of the State Police, ought to be put on unpaid leave of absence?"
"I will await the report of the State Police."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, I... apparently both the House Democrats and the White House have the same spin doctor, because it's tough to get an answer out of them, and it appears that we're not going to get some answers today. Thank you very much."
"Mr. Meyer."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. It is very embarrassing to ask questions, get no answers, see half of the chamber on that side of the aisle sitting there reading newspapers, milling around, doing nothing about this. I can remember a few years ago, we did get answers when we had a problem here and note that problem has not reoccurred, and I think it's apparent... it's incumbent upon all of us to demand whether you're on one side of the aisle or the other. I think it does not reflect well on any of us if we, as a House, cannot run our own chamber. The charges that have been alleged are very aggrievous. We have, the Body as a whole, or we have a special committee that can look into those charges, certainly in addition to what the State Police are doing, and I think it's now time that we, as Legislators, stepped up to the plate, and we started to police our own. I would just like to ask for the rest of the Membership to support that type of action." 23 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998
"Mr. Brady."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A question of you. Have you investigated this matter yourself fully?"
Speaker Madigan: "Mr. Brady, I am awaiting the report of the investigation of the State Police."
"You've said that numerous times, Mr. Speaker, and I certainly have heard that and understand that. My question to you is, have you internally investigated, you, your chief of staff, or anybody within your organization, internally investigated this so that you feel that you, as Speaker of the House, have a full understanding of what went on within your own organization?"
"I am awaiting the report of the State Police."
"That's a good answer, the same answer I've heard twenty times. I bet if I keep asking, maybe I'll here it twenty times again. Maybe I could think of a different way to ask it. Have you looked into this matter?"
"Same answer."
"Alright. What would you suggest we do, Mr. Speaker, await the State Police report?"
"Await the report of the State Police."
"Pardon?"
"Await the report of the State Police."
"Mr. Speaker, do you feel that anyone in your organization acted inappropriately?"
"I am awaiting the report of the State Police."
"Mr. Speaker, is there anyone in your organization still, who was involved in this, who maybe you think ought to step aside until this investigation is concluded?"
"Same answer, Mr. Brady."
"Would you share with us what you told the State Police?"
"I am awaiting the report of the State Police." 24 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998
"Did you discuss this matter with the State Police?"
"Same answer, Mr. Brady."
"How can you answer... that's not an answer, Mr. Speaker. That's a statement."
"Same answer, Mr. Brady."
"Your use of the word 'answer' is probably not appropriate, Mr. Speaker. Those are statements."
"Thank you, Mr. Brady."
"You're welcome, Mr. Speaker."
"Mr. Tenhouse."
"Mr. Speaker, I think Representative Cross put it pretty well. We've got a tale of two situations. When we go back about two and a half years and we talk about the situation that happened, but an unfortunate one in relation to what you referred to as 'Notegate.' We heard the statements that were made by your Members. We also know that those... in fairness when you step back from the situation, then Speaker Daniels stepped up to the plate and accepted responsibility and took the bull by the horns and acted. Unfortunately, what we're seeing happen now is, the situation, a subterfugion, refusal to answer and really a refusal to address what's really happening. I think it's a simple situation. We don't need the State Police to tell us to take charge of our chamber."
"Mr. Saviano."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the benefit of Members of Reg & Reg Committee, we're going to cancel the meeting today. Thank you."
"Mr. Black."
"Mr. Speaker, I've tried everything that I know how to get across the gravity of the situation. I'm reminded of a quote from George Santyana, 'Those who do not learn from 25 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 history are doomed to repeat it.' What you have heard here the last fifteen minutes is simply a repetition of the history that you performed less than three years ago in this chamber. I simply rise to express my indignation that you expressed, the outrage, the indignation, the anger that you expressed so eloquently two and a half years ago. You even called for an independent council. We haven't done that. We haven't done that. Maybe we've learned a little bit from history. Now, where is the indignation that you expressed over 'Notegate', Mr. Speaker? The history has come back. You know, it isn't going to go away. You might as well address it. You might as well assume responsibility and get on with it. You know, you've got a chief legal counsel by the name of Mr. Kasper. While I was a young lad, the only Kasper I knew was a friendly ghost. Read...read into that anything you want, but ghosty isn't going to go away. The issue of whether there was a quid pro quo will not go away, and if the issue of 'Notegate' made you rise to the heights of your elegance, Sir, then I rise to the heights of my inelegance eloquence to say I am outraged that you refuse, you absolutely refuse to address a problem that has cast a spell and a light on this entire chamber. It's beneath you, Sir. You're a man of integrity and a man of extreme intelligence, and you can set this record clear very quickly and very easily. You have the power to do that, you have the means to do that, you have the wherewithal to do that, and, Sir, I think you have the character to do that, and if that doesn't work, you have an obligation to do it."
"Mr. Biggins. Biggins."
"Oh, excuse me. Thank you, I thought maybe there was a mistake, but I got ____________________________________ Houghton Mifflin American Heritage 26 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 __________ of 'job' here, and Dictionary it says, 'It's a regular activity performed in exchange for payment, especially a trade, occupation, or profession.' So, therefore, Mr. Bradford, being an attorney, if he was hired for a job and he didn't do his part of the trade or the exchange, I wonder if the Speaker could tell us what in the future he might be doing under his new contract? Forget about the past for the moment."
"Mr. Stephens."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions have nothing to do with the State Police inquiry. My question has to do with current hiring procedures within the Speaker's Office. Can you tell me who is in charge in managing the contracts within your office?"
"We will await the report of the State Police, Mr. Stephens."
"For what, Mr. Speaker? That has nothing to do with it. You know it. Quit hiding, Mr. Speaker. Just answer the simple questions."
"Thank you, Mr. Stephens."
"Mr. Speaker... "
Speaker Madigan: "On the Order of House Bills - Third Reading, there appears House Bill 3478. Mr. Lang in the Chair."
"Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3478, a Bill for an Act amending the School Code. Third Reading of this House Bill."
"Speaker Madigan."
"This Bill would eliminate the legislative scholarships. It's a Bill whose time is long due. I recommend an 'aye' vote, Mr. Speaker."
"The Speaker moves for the passage of House Bill 3478. On that question, the Chair recognizes 27 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 Representative Churchill."
"We would appreciate an immediate conference, Republican Conference right now. We're calling for a conference, Mr. Speaker, right now. Republican Conference."
"Mr. Churchill, Mr. Churchill, how long do you anticipate your caucus to be?"
"Probably an hour, an hour and a half."
"And will you be returning to the floor, Sir?"
"Is that where you want to come back, to the floor? We may have some other questions that we want to ask you at that time or something."
"The Republicans will caucus immediately in Room 118. The Democrats will have lunch. The House will resume... the House will be in recess until the hour of 3:00 p.m. The Chair recognizes Representative Brunsvold."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd just like to remind the Members of the House-Senate softball game this evening at 5:30. So, if we can get out of the discussion, out of conferences and remind everybody to come over to Lincoln Park at about 5:30 for the Senate-House softball game. Thank you."
"The House is in recess until the hour of 3:00 p.m."
Speaker Lang: "The House will come to order. Mr. Clerk, House Bill 3478 has been read a third time. Is that correct?"
"That is correct."
"Speaker Madigan."
"Again, Mr. Speaker, this Bill would eliminate the legislative tuition waivers. It's an issue that has been considered by the House on several previous occasions. Certainly, this is a Bill whose time has come, and it ought 28 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 to be passed, and I request an 'aye' vote."
Speaker Lang: "The Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 3478, and on that question, the Chair recognizes Representative Rutherford."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Before we went on to recess, I'd asked some questions of the Speaker in regards to some activity of the House, and I still haven't gotten any responses to it. I find it rather offensive, to be very blunt with you. If I have to go through and have this repeated to me like a parrot to say, go and call the State Police. Mr. Speaker, there are allegations of impropriety that are very severe and actually going to talking about the shame that's been befallen upon the House of Representatives, and how that's come about because of the conduct and questions that have taken place out here. I am coming back very directly, and particularly with you in the Chair, Representative Lang, to ask what is being done in regards to trying to take the taint off of what's happened here in the House of Representatives. Have you started an investigation to come forward and bring us some answers in regards to the procedures that have taken place here in the House? And that's a question directly to the Speaker."
"Mr. Cross."
"Mr. Speaker."
"Mr. Speaker. Well, Mr. Speaker, that's a real statesmanlike way to handle a real serious problem in this chamber and if you're going to cut us off, then I think we're going to be here a while continuing our questions. And I have a couple questions of either you or the Speaker with respect to 'Ghostgate'. Can you tell us, will Mr. Mapes be asked to step aside and receive no pay during the course of this investigation? Mr. Speaker, my question to 29 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 you, I saw you were on the phone, I don't know if the State Police were taking your call... "
Speaker Lang: "Is this in the nature of a point of order or a point of personal privilege?"
"Yeah, it's a point of personal privilege. Actually, it's for the benefit of all of us in the House and actually all the people in the State of Illinois. Will Mr. Mapes be asked to step aside without pay during the course of either your investigation, as the Speaker of the House, or during the State Police investigation? Can you let us at least know that without this answer, 'The State Police are investigating'? Can you let us know?"
"Mr. Cross, Speaker Madigan has answered that question already. Representative Erwin."
"No. Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker. That question has not been answered. It's a very simp..."
"The Chair recognizes Representative Erwin."
"Thank you, Speaker. I was actually rising to speak to the issue at hand."
"Representative Erwin."
"Well, Speaker, I will just make my comments directed to the issue that is at hand. House Bill 3478 is a piece of legislation, which I have long supported, to eliminate the General Assembly scholarship. I would like to refer to an editorial in the Springfield paper that strongly supports the elimination of the General Assembly scholarship. There is about 4.5 million dollars that we spend on scholarships that go through Members of the Illinois General Assembly. It is not appropriate any more than it is appropriate for us to be giving out personally public aid or any other direct services. This is a reform that is long overdue, and I agree with Representative Poe and Representative 30 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 Klingler's editorial in their paper, that calls for its elimination. I applaud the Speaker for this piece of legislation, and I would certainly encourage an 'aye' vote."
Speaker Lang: "Representative Granberg. Representative Granberg."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, Ladies and Gentlemen, you surely can't tell it's an election year. For the edification of the Members of the press and the public, obviously it's 1998, they're looking to November. What I'm embarrassed by with my colleagues, though, and I would ask my colleagues, we've always worked together on a bipartisan basis. There are other issues that need to be brought before this House. Obviously, you don't want to engage in any conversation about reforming HMO's, campaign finance, the Citizens' Utility Board. So, you don't want to engage in any of these discussions. You would rather faust yourselves for November and that's unfortunate because that does no one good in the State of Illinois. The people of this state deserve better. They deserve bipartisanship. They deserve to have the politics taken out of this. We could engage in partisan rhetoric, like you are. We could talk about Republican staff people doing campaigns, but we have chosen not to, because the people deserve better. The people deserve the Members of this House to work together, to address the serious issues affecting all the people of this state. That is what they expect of us. Obviously, that is not what you want and that is indeed unfortunate. I would hope that those reasonable people over there would actually want to engage in a bipartisan discussion to resolve the issues affecting the people, and I would simply ask the Speaker to do a Roll Call. We have business. The 31 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 114th Legislative Day April 22, 1998 people of this state deserve to have the business addressed, and we should have put aside the partisan rhetoric for the purposes of November, and get the people done for all the ... get the work done for all the people of the State of Illinois. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."
Speaker Lang: "The Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 3478. This is final action. All those in favor shall signify by voting 'aye'; those opposed shall vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 86 voting 'yes', 24 voting 'no', and 3 voting 'present', and this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Currie now moves that the House stand adjourned until 12:00 tomorrow. All in favor say 'aye'... noon tomorrow. All in favor say 'aye'; those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the House does stand adjourned until 12:00 noon tomorrow, Thursday. For the Members' edification, the committees... the 2:00 committees will meet immediately. The 2:00 committees will meet immediately. The 4:00 committees will meet at 4:45." 32