Illinois House Floor Debate — February 20, 2003

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let the record reflect that Representative Stephens is excused today.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise for a point of personal privilege.”

“I’d like the Members of the chamber to please recognizes some high school students from my district who are up here in the gallery and show ‘em a nice round of applause for being here. They’re learning a little bit about government, legislative government today.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House Bill 2 simply extends the appropriation for the wine council which we’ve had in place for years. The benefits of this are tremendous and it’s 09300018.doc 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 been a very successful program to expand the existing minutes… or expand existing industry here in the state. And I’d be glad to answer any questions of what it does.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, would the electrician come and look at my switch, my speak switch. I know it’s a conspiracy, but I would appreciate it.”

“Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?”

“Yes, Representative, this underlying Bill, the Bill itself does not seem to be something that’s a bad idea. The only problem is, do you have any idea of what it’s gonna cost the taxpayers at this point in time to do this?”

“Mr. Speaker, I cannot hear the Gentleman’s comments. I’d like… I’d like to know what he’s saying, that’s kinda helpful.”

“Don’t you believe that if we pass this legislation that more people then would take advantage of it? And if so, 09300018.doc 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 why does the Department of Public Aid estimate that it’ll cost the taxpayers about $9 million annually? That’s each and every year.”

“Thank you. To the Bill. Ladies and Gentlemen…”

“…the Sponsor’s well intended, his idea is to solve a problem that we have, but I’ll remind the Body that many times we all lowball the usage of a Bill until it actually goes in place and then we find out that it costs a whole lot more than was intended, but because the legislation’s there, because it’s interpreted by the agency that must administer it, we end up spending lots and lots of more money. The problem we’re gonna be faced with all Session, Ladies and Gentlemen, is that we’re all gonna have good ideas, but a lot of these are gonna cost money and at this point in time with the General Assembly needs to be cognizant of the financial problems this state has. It’s gonna be difficult for us to vote ‘no’ on some of these things, but ultimately all of us had better start thinking about how do we pay for the programs we already have in 09300018.doc 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 place? How do we take care of the elderly and the… and the… and the disabled and our education? How do we take care of all these expenses when we keep creating new programs that we don’t have the money for? Representative, I… I… I sympathize with ya, I don’t know how we’re gonna do it either, but we are faced with the dilemma that this state could easily end up having another year with a decline in tax growth and then we keep expanding programs. So, all I can say is, you’re gonna need to think hard and long on what we’re voting for and what are we voting to pass. I appreciate the Body’s indulgence.”

“Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, obviously what Representative Parke just said has a lot of truth to it, but I wanna commend Representative Brosnahan for the sponsorship of this Bill. Autism is a very serious illness that is receiving widespread diagnosis today. We need to pay attention to issues of this nature. And I will remind the Members of this Body that the founding member of the Republican Party, Abraham Lincoln, talked about helping people that cannot help themselves and doing for people what government can do. This is one of the things that government must do, we must be a compassionate and understanding government. Representative Brosnahan, it’s a great Bill and I support your Bill.”

“Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?”

“Representative, in the last decade or so there have been a number of these freestanding clinics in just about 09300018.doc 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 every state in the union and they often use the word urgent care because they are open longer hours than a typical doctor’s office. In fact, some of them have two shifts. Some of the nurses and doctors that staff an urgent care clinic may have somebody on duty 8 to 4 and may then have people on duty from 4 ‘til midnight. And I have never been confused by the word urgent and under the current trauma system in use in Illinois, no ambulance in the State of Illinois can take a patient to any facility not designated in the trauma system. So, if you… if you’re new to an area and you look in the yellow pages, it’s 7:00 at night and you don’t feel very well and you see an urgent care clinic and you think that’s urgent that you see a doctor that evening, why… why would we want the name dropped from urgent care to just simply ‘physician’s care’ or ‘medical care’, which then may not let the constituent know that it is a place that generally is open after normal business hours?”

“Well, I understand all of that and current law makes it very clear if you have called 911 an emergency response unit cannot take you to any hospital that is not designated 09300018.doc 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 in the trauma system and that… that… that Act causes some confusion in Illinois.”

“Oh, I understand that.”

“I’m not arguing that point, I’m just, I think you’re trying to split semantics.”

“We’ve inve… we’ve invested 25… ya know, are we gonna have just a classroom debate here or are we gonna ask questions and get an answer? It don’t make any difference to me, I can do whatever you want, Mr. Speaker. I don’t need this microphone, you just tell me what you wanna do and we’ll get it done.”

“All right. I’ll ask the question and then she can answer it.”

“Now, if we wanna get into one of those talking heads debate that’s so popular on Sunday television, I can do that, too. All right.”

“This whole thing…”

“…ought to take about three minutes.”

“Let me continue.”

“Current Illinois law, that we have worked on for more than two decades, makes it abundantly clear that if you call an ambulance you must go to the nearest trauma center. Now, don’t think that that doesn’t cause confusion among lay people, because they will tell the ambulance people, I wanna go to St. Mary’s and the ambulance says, I can’t take you to St. Mary’s, that’s not a trauma center. There have been cases in Illinois where that has led to a fist fight between the family and the patient because Illinois law clearly, any emergency medical personnel that responds knows that you can’t take a person to an urgent care center. You can’t take ‘em to any hospital that isn’t designated a trauma center. Now, if you do away with the word ‘urgent care facility’, which to me is clearly defined that I can go there after regular hours when I have a sore throat or a headache, in fact I have a headache today, if there was an urgent care center in the Capitol I’d go there. What word are you going to let them use? What are they gonna use?”

“Well, that would be nice…”

“…and might even be different.” 09300018.doc 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003

“I… for the life of me, I don’t understand how this Bill is going to enhance anyone’s right to go to an emergency room.”

“I’m mean, that’s inalienable. I… is this Bill in response to a problem or is it a Bill searching for a problem?”

“All right. So, the rule that… to be promulgated, I’m looking at your Committee Amendment, the rule to be promulgated as to what these clinics can call themselves will be determined by the Department of Public Health. Is that your intent?”

“Okay. All right. Just for purposes of my intent, Representative, access to an emergency room doesn’t guarantee that you aren’t gonna die. I’ve had family members of mine who were rushed to a trauma center, an 09300018.doc 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 emergency room and they never came out. I don’t think there’s a real significant problem in distinguishing between trauma care in a credited emergency room trauma center system and what has been a new development in group practice, and that is a group of doctors going together and creating what some call urgent care, some call after hours clinics, whatever. I don’t stand in opposition of the Bill, I was just, in all honesty, trying to figure out why we were changing something that I… in my experience have not read anything about or heard anything about, you said it’s in response to a problem, your word is good enough for me. Thank you.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This… this is a Bill that affected quite a few of our… this will address some of the things that affected quite a few of our districts. I think it’s important that in this fiscal crisis that we’re under that we manage our assets better and it does not make any sense to open up new prisons when we are closing other prisons. And this Bill is one that I certainly… is popular in my district. Green County lost a boot camp. It’s per capita income is 100th out of 102 counties. Had this Bill been in place, we may have had a different outcome. I ask for your support.” 09300018.doc 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003

“Mr. Sponsor, would the… Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor spiel?”

“Representative, what’s the big picture on this legislation? Can the CEO of the state, our Governor, close a facility or semi close it once this legislation has passed without this impact study?” Mitchell, B.: “Yes.”

“Then what…” Mitchell, B.: “Could you repeat your… I can’t hardly hear.”

“I said, can’t… your legislation say that if you’re gonna close a facility that there has to be a fiscal impact done on it?” Mitchell, B.: “There has to be an economic impact study, that’s correct.”

“Before it’s closed?” Mitchell, B.: “That is correct.”

“So, we’re gonna tell the executive… the CEO of this state, the Governor, that he doesn’t have the right to close anything without an impact statement?” Mitchell, B.: “That is correct. We’re just asserting our constitutional responsibilities, Representative, as a coequal branch of government. I think in the past we’ve delegated too much authority to the capriciousness of a chief executive. This is just, again, reasserting our right as a coequal branch of government.” 09300018.doc 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003

“Who’s to do this, who do you want to do this impact? Are you gonna ask the Economic and Fiscal Commission or are you setting up another group or…?” Mitchell, B.: “Certainly, we in the debate in committee, which it was passed unanimously, Representative Smith suggested that we possibly wanna might have a legislative… a Economic and Fiscal Commission do that.”

“Okay.” Mitchell, B.: “And they said that they… we checked with them, they said that we could do it. So, what we might wanna do is amend over in the Senate to that effect.”

“Do you have a timeline of which this must be done and a timeline in which they’re… are you requiring the Governor to give a response in writing to… once the statement’s made does he have any obligation other than to take one look at it, put it down, say, okay that’s interesting, now close it. Is there any…” Mitchell, B.: “The way…”

“…anything in there?” Mitchell, B.: “Pardon me. The way the legislation is written it’d be presented to the General Assembly no later than three months prior to the planned implementation of the facility closing or layoff.”

“So, the Governor must wait three months after the study is done before he has the right to close it?” Mitchell, B.: “Again, the point of this legislation is to reassert to work as a coequal partner in determination of what facilities are closed or not. We have to look at, for 09300018.doc 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 instance, and this is not a Bill directed toward Lincoln Developmental Center, which is in my district, or Green County or Sheridan or anything else. But I would refer to the Springfield paper today, in a little town of Lincoln, Illinois, about 15 thousand people, we closed a facility, 700 people it employed several years ago, closed it and now the economic impact is still being felt on that community. There is an article in the Springfield paper where people who supplied it in the private sector are going out of business because they have no longer that facility. It’s just trying to give this General Assembly more information before we close a facility and how it will affect the economy of communities.”

“I have… I have a respect for that. I think that any time you have a major employer in a small town and it closes that it will certainly have an impact. I’m jus trying to understand what the respon… I mean I understand the intent of the legislation, I just wanna talk about the factual part of it, what happens. Does it… is it… there’s no binding responsibility from the Governor once it’s passed and once the impact statement is filed, is there?” Mitchell, B.: “That is… there is… that is correct.”

“And so what does it do, it gives the legislative branch a tool in which to talk to the Governor and discuss it?” Mitchell, B.: “Sure, like before we make a decision. It certainly… it gives us more information and information, in my opinion, is very important. So, it slows down the process so the government can’t unilaterally… the chief 09300018.doc 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 executive of the state unilaterally close facilities without looking at how it’ll affect the economy of an area.”

“Thank you. To the Bill. Ladies and Gentlemen, I commend…”

“…the Sponsor on this legislation. It doesn’t sound like it’s punitive. It doesn’t sound like it actually slows down the Governor or the executive director of the state, whoever holds that seat, but it does allow us to remind everybody that there is a separation of power, that in fact the Legislature does have a responsibility to its citizens and that the executive branch of government must be responsible to the representative branch of government. And I commend the Sponsor and I rise in support of this legislation.”

“Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I have all the respect in the world for the Sponsors of this Bill and for their concerns and for their reaction to the recent closures of Lincoln Developmental and Zeller and the others, but I don’t think that those examples necessitate this kind of a law. I think it is a very, very difficult thing for the Governor and for an administrative branch to make the kinds of reforms that need to be made over the course of an administration. I think it is very, very difficult for an 09300018.doc 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 administration to close obsolete facilities or to make initiatives which require changes into new and often more modern, more cost-effective, more rational systems for delivering services. As a result, I think it would be a very, very big mistake to handcuff the Governor, to put a restriction on the Governor and make the situation even more difficult for this Governor or future Governors who have to make very tough, critical decisions to be hamstrung by the impact of this Bill. So, as a result, Mr. Chairman and Sponsors of this Bill, I have great respect for your intent and for… great sympathy for the hardship that’s been worked in your districts, all of our districts frankly, but I do not believe that we should be requiring the Governor, the administration to go through this process. And I would urge a ‘no’ vote on this measure. Thank you.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I present for your consideration House Bill 130. This has been brought to me on behalf of a trust attorney who has worked with numerous families who, as many of us had, have had a pet that we dearly loved. As one lady in my district calls her pet is her ‘fur baby’ and in effect many people love and care for their pets and our concern, especially if they’re elderly, that the well-keeping of that animal when they pass on. My legislation establishes in Illinois along as it’s been done, I believe in 19 other 09300018.doc 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 states, to establish a trust, so that in fact these animals will be protected for that, money will be set aside. And we think that this is a good public policy, a good idea and people… it gives the citizens of Illinois a sense in well- being that if they’re around they will care for their animals, their pets, but if they’re not around that in fact through a will that those animals will be taken care of. And… so I would ask that you consider allowing the discussion on this to be continued in the Senate and ultimately, I think, we’d like to join the 19 other states in making sure that trusts can be established for those animals.”

“Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. You know I’m just an old country boy and I’ve had a lot of dogs, I love my dogs. My good friend across the aisle is a suburbanite, I don’t know if he’s a dog lover or cat lover or what. I wanna… Would he yield for some questions?”

“Thank you. Representative…”

“Mr. Speaker, if it was anybody else…”

“Representative, you aren’t… this isn’t anything that’s gonna be kicking my dog around like we had a couple Bills last year, are ya?”

“No, this is your dog and that dog won’t hunt.” 09300018.doc 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003

“Well, I’ll guarantee ya the dog won’t hunt, but… well, it can, it can hunt a place to sleep and it does a couple other things we won’t get into, but what… if I wanna provide for my dog after my death and I got a vision of my death just about six or seven minutes ago from another Representative, so I can setup a trust and then my dog is taken care of. My spouse won’t be able to break the trust?”

“No, that’s not true…”

“Oh, darn.”

“…and quite frankly, it could be reviewed and if the court deems it unreason… if somebody leaves a million dollars to their cat, I think, maybe the beneficiaries might have some recourse by going to law. We’ve tried to structure this in a way that’s reasonable. It’s a commonsense thing that… that a judge determines that this is common sense that this is not overly burdening…”

“All right.”

“…the beneficiaries, that in fact it’ll hold up.”

“Well, Representative, I stand in support of your Bill and as I’ve said every year that I’ve been down here and I would say to my new colleagues, if you’re gonna be in the business of politics and you wanna friend, a real friend, a true friend, always glad to see ya, always gonna welcome you home no matter what kind of vote you make, then you better run out and get a dog because it’s that dog that’s gonna stand by ya. And this isn’t any dog Bill and this isn’t his first Bill. He’s had some dog Bills, but this is 09300018.doc 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 a good Bill. And on behalf of my dog, Emmylou Harris, named after my favorite country and western singer, Sir, I rise to thank you, because without a trust I wouldn’t trust my surviving spouse to make sure the only Ken-L Ration is fed to my dog and a treat given after every walk and that the pooper scooper is cleaned up after every walk. I say again, the only friend you have in this business is your dog, you take care of your dog and your dog will take care of you.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?”

“Yes, in essence, this whole structure that you put forth must be front door referendum and the taxpayers of that county must vote for it.”

“So, that means that the board’s gotta vote… that county board’s gotta vote to put it on referendum. So, you’re going to get the approval of the county board and if it passes, then you get the peop… the vote of the people.”

“And then you’re going to… of course, then you’ll have a mandate by the people to put in… to be dealt with by the board.” 09300018.doc 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003

“Can they put it back out in a binding…”

“Well, quite frankly, I like the idea of cumulative voting and I think that that’s something… do we on the cumulative voting, on your structure, are you… are you doing any provision for a party differences, that if you’re gonna have three people running in the same thing, do they have to be from… two from one party and one from another or is it not under that concept?”

“Would it be nonpartisan elections?”

“Okay, if it’s partisan in McHenry, how many seats will be in each entity?”

“Okay, but there’s no stipulation that there needs to be at least one minority party member of the four that are running?”

“The concept of… in my opinion, of cumulative voting is that you get a representation on behalf of all interests. It would seem to me that would be the concept, that citizens of this country would want, is that if we’re gonna allow more than one person to represent the area, there should be some diversity in those people, such as we had here 20 years ago when we had to have three… two from one party and one from another, so we got a diversity of thought and representation from the whole entity that they represented.”

“Well, that’s kinda my point, then. There oughta be some way that you have a diversity. There oughta be some stipulation that one member of that cumulative board should be from a community of less than a thousand people or something.”

“Well, I understand what you’re trying to achieve and I’m gonna vote for it, but I really wish there was some way in this legislation that diversity of interests would be protected. To me, I think, that’s what we should go back to here in the Legislature, because if you’re a liberal and you’re pushing a strongly, a liberal agenda in certain Legislators’ districts, that may not happen. And if they’re a conser… if they’re a liberal and you’re a conservative pushing your agenda, you may not have that happen. So, I appreciate what you’re trying to do, but I have a little reservation to make sure that the interests of all citizens are trying to be protected as much as possible.” 09300018.doc 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003

“Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield?”

“We’ve had this conversation in the past. Now, Sangamon County is a single member district county board, will this Bill in any way affect them?”

“This would not allow someone to petition the county board and have consolidation in two districts.”

“Thank you.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?”

“In McHenry County, the districts are elected… it’s a four-member district and cumulative voting already exists because you can give one vote instead of using your four votes. Anyone that is dynamic and hardworking, Independent, a Democrat, or a Republican can be elected. Representative Franks just mentioned that we are the fastest growing and we are already are very diverse. My point is that Representative Franks is an example of a smart, charismatic person who did win three times. So this 09300018.doc 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 is not impossible and I find this Bill not pertinent to our great needs in this floor.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?”

“Jack, I just have some questions about how this would actually work. DuPage County right now has multi member districts, six districts, three members in a district, eighteen members total, on the county board.”

“The cumulative vote… if I wanna right now, if I’m in county board district one and I wanna strongly support one candidate, although I can vote for three candidates, I would just vote for that one candidate… “

“John Smith… “

“Whoever his name is.”

“And not vote for the others.”

“Does your Bill, by allowing cumulative voting, allow… well and by doing that, the person, John Smith, gets a vote but the others don’t.”

“So, we call that bullet voting.”

“Rather than cumulative voting. Would your Bill allow me to vote for John Smith somehow three times?”

“And how would that be done, on the ballot itself or by the Board of Elections, or what?”

“How does that work?”

“Okay.”

“I don’t own that much stock, Jack.”

“Okay.”

“Okay. Maybe just for my own education, could you kinda find out how that would work and we can just talk later?” 09300018.doc 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003

“Thanks.”

“Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?”

“Representative, Let me ask you one question and I don’t know the answer. We’re in a budget crisis and we don’t have a staff attorney in the true sense of the word, and the statute books behind me are just fakes. We can’t afford to by real statute books. Is it permissible under the 1970 Constitution to have cumulative voting for any office in the State of Illinois?”

“So, I don’t see in this Bill, correct me if I’m wrong, where you specifically give the county the ability to go to a cumulative voting system. It appears to me that it’s an advisory referenda on the question. Now, is there language that I’ve overlooked that says, if the referenda is successful that we then in this Bill give them the explicit 09300018.doc 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 statutory authority to engage in cumulative voting, which we of course outlawed in the case of the General Assembly in the 1970 Constitution?”

“Okay.”

“So, in your opinion then you think that the underlying Bill gives, if not explicit authority to have cumulative voting in the county board districts, it would then give them implicit permission to do so?”

“Okay. All right. Thank you very much.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. As I think was referenced earlier in the debate, the city council in Peoria, and the park districts, and the other municipal corporations in Peoria do have cumulative voting. The cumulative voting arose as a result of a court ordered agreement which was agreed to by those parties. I would have to tell you that I think there, at least in the part of many citizens, is a very great dissatisfaction with the cumulative voting process because the practical effect of cumulative voting is to encourage very single interests and very much special interests candidates to pursue election and by virtue of their supporters being able to cast this cumulatively weighted vote, I think enables the process to be upset and to be distorted by virtue of this means of enabling single interests and special interests groups from getting successfully elected to these positions. It also has the impact of having the more moderate, the more global candidates, if you will, having a tougher time to overcome the impact of this cumulative voting. For that reason I would encourage a ‘no’ vote on this measure because I think that this has the ability to distort and to exaggerate single and special interests over the general interests in communities. Thank you.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a Bill that I have had three times before and it has passed the House unanimously in the 90th and 91st and the 92nd General Assembly. It’s the agency budget Bill. We have all felt disenfranchised by the budget process here and this would… this Bill would say that we should do the budget agency by 09300018.doc 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 agency instead of in one omnibus, over a thousand page Bill. I would ask for an ‘aye’ vote.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 194 is a Bill that very simply changes the way in which the school district seeks reimbursement for drivers education expenses. It’s a simple change that allows the chief administrator of the district or the authorized drivers education personnel, instead of the president or acting president of the school board, to submit, by signature, those drivers ed reimbursement expenses. It just eliminates the need for that school board president to sign that report. Currently, it’s necessary often to find that school board president, have 09300018.doc 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 them sign that reimbursement and send it in. This would expediate the process and eventually allow for data reports to become electronic and those data reports to be much more quickly gathered by the State Board of Education for analysis. I would be happy to answer any questions related to House Bill 194.”

“Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?”

“Representative, I… I… let me ask you one question for the record. I sit on the Conflict of Interest Committee. Do you now or have you ever taught driver education?”

“No, Sir.”

“Are you… are you sometimes in the employ of a school district?”

“Yes.”

“Would your job be or has it ever been to sign these certification forms?”

“For drivers education?”

“Yes.”

“At this time, that’s not my job, it’s done by the school board president.”

“All right. Now that we’ve cleared that up, let’s… let’s move to the issue at hand. Why is the school board president required to sign a report that certifies that the 09300018.doc 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 driver education student has, in fact, completed the course and the school needs to be reimbursed?”

“The school board president actually doesn’t sign that the student has completed the course. The school board president signs a reimbursement form, which is really nothing more than attendance and expenses gathered and put into a form by the drivers education teacher and then reviewed by administrators, it just adds a step to the process. The board president doesn’t actually verify that the student has completed the course, only the expense part.”

“Well, who… who then actually certifies to the state that the student, in fact, completed the course and that reimbursement now needs to be paid?”

“The drivers education instructor certifies to the state that the student has completed the course. This is merely for the reimbursement of expenses to the school district they have incurred while teaching the course.”

“All right. If… if the reimbursement claim turns out to be inaccurate, that’s a kind way… kind word, who then is held responsible in the school district?”

“The false record is the responsibility of the person who submits that false claim at this time and that would continue and the penalty is a fine equal to the amount of the sum falsely claimed.”

“So, the person that would be held responsible, if I heard you earlier, would be the teacher of the driver education class?” 09300018.doc 45  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003

“At this point, the person who signs that claim form and verifies it is the school board president. So that person, at this point, would be held responsible.”

“All right.”

“This would shift that responsibility to the chief administrator of the school district or to the drivers ed personnel.”

“In other words, we’re… we’re eliminating the liability of higher paid administrative personnel and putting all of the liability and blame on the poor driver education teacher.”

“Actually, this Bill eliminates the liability to the school board president and… which now has that liability and shifts it to either the school board CEO or the drivers ed personnel…”

“All right. Okay.”

“…depending on what the district wants to do.”

“Is… is the person who signs the reimbursement form, would that be a bargainable issue in most district contacts?”

“No.”

“So, you’re not willing to bargain the issue.”

“No.”

“Is that what you’re saying?”

“No.”

“Certainly an enlightened attitude in the twenty-first century. Let me ask you another question.”

“Yes, Sir.” 09300018.doc 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003

“How much does drive… when driver education started and that goes back… Ya know, when I got out of high school we didn’t have driver ed. How much does that cost?”

“Drivers education?”

“Yeah, how much does it cost a school district? I mean, it surely isn’t free, I mean, the state doesn’t reimburse you for the total cost. Correct?”

“However, the cost does vary from district to district as personnel costs is different in some districts than other districts, districts in some cases do not require more than the minimum six hours of driving time and in… in… ya know, it’s very difficult to say exactly how much… what an average would be, it’s a varying amount, but it is a reimbursable expense.”

“In the… we… we had a Bill last year, Representative Berns sponsored along with Representative Currie, and it was at the request of the Amish community to levy a horse and buggy tax on damage that the horses would do to township roads. Now, if there is a school in the Amish district, do they still have driver ed or do they have a course in rules of the buggy? Are they treated differently?”

“I would assume that it’s not possible to receive a drivers education certification to drive a vehicle if what you’re practicing on is a horse and buggy. So, I doubt that those… and this Bill, by the way, would not affect that since there is not a horse and buggy expense 09300018.doc 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 reimbursement claim form at this time that the state deals with.”

“Well, let me ask you this question. Would it… would it be a financial advantage to the state and to the taxpayers of the state and to the school districts of the state to just eliminate driver education as part of the curricula in the K-12 unit district?”

“In my opinion, no, it would not be.”

“Well, are you saying that you’re opposed to the recent changes we’ve made to the drivers license law about the graduated drivers license law where parents have to certify that they have 30 hours behind the wheel with their child, there’s a curfew restriction on young drivers, there’s currently a number of passengers that you can carry as a young driver? You’re not in favor of all those improvements that recent secretaries of state have made in the drivers license law?”

“No, Sir, I’m not saying that at all. In fact, I am in support of those measures and it helps… the more driving time a young person has with their parents and others, responsible adults, the better and the 25 hours that’s currently in the law, it was a good addition to those requirements.”

“Do you have children approaching their drivers license age or are they already beyond that age?”

“I personally have two children who are of driving age and three daughters who will be driving at varying stages in the future.” 09300018.doc 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003

“Uh oh. Should not you then recuse yourself from this Bill since you have three children that will be going into the driver ed curricula at some point in the future?”

“I don’t believe so. I think that this Bill is intended to make simpler the life of a school board president and allow an expediation of a process that will eventually be allowed on the Internet.”

“Thank you very much, Representative. I think… Mr. Speaker, to the Bill. The Gentleman…”

“The Gentleman just answered the question, I think, inadvertently. He said, to relieve pressure on the school board president. That person runs for that job, he goes out and asks for people to elect him to the school board, knowing that he has a job to do, he or she, when they’re elected to that board and part of that job is to certify the driver education reimbursement form. Now, here we go again, no responsibility on behalf of elected officials. Let’s pass it down the line to the driver ed teacher, who probably isn’t even on tenure and files a claim mistakenly and will probably be fired as a result of that action. That school… that school teacher who’s teaching driver ed didn’t ask for this responsibility, this Representative has the unmitigated gall to come before the chamber and insist that the school board president be absolved of any responsibility and let’s put it on the teacher. Well, I’ve had enough of that. I taught school for 20 years. It’s time to stand up for teacher rights, driver education 09300018.doc 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 rights, the rights of those learning to drive, the rights of the taxpayer. I’m not here to protect the rights of the school board president, that’s their job, that’s what they run for. Vote ‘no’.”

“No, I don’t believe so. In fact, the Bill does allow for either the school superintendent or the drivers ed personnel to sign the reimbursement claim form, so it isn’t necessary.” Mitchell, J.: “All right. You kinda lowered your voice there, I’m close to ya, but I still can’t hear ya.”

“Okay.” Mitchell, J.: “Well, you and I share some experiences along the line of education and I think we both know that it’s 25 hours and not 30 hours as my mistaken colleague did say, 09300018.doc 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 but that’s okay. I really just happen to know this because my daughter got her drivers license Monday and I had to sign all those forms myself. My question is, since I’m required now to drive with my daughter for 25 hours in my vehicle with my gas, can I then claim… send a reimbursement claim to the school district to get part of that money that was in the drivers education program since I’m now doing some of the teaching?”

“No, Sir, this Bill does not deal with that. No, Sir.” Mitchell, J.: “Well, I know it doesn’t, but I just thought with your expertise maybe you’d know that answer to that.”

“No. No, you cannot.” Mitchell, J.: “Is there any truth to the rumor that… that you’ve ran this Bill because you’re sick and tired of stomping through the fields in the spring and getting your shoes all muddy trying to find your board president so you can get his signature?”

“There’s no truth to that rumor, whatsoever.” Mitchell, J.: “Okay. Is there any truth to the rumor that this is your first piece of legislation on the House Floor?”

“That is not rumor, that is fact.” Mitchell, J.: “Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I hope you heard the Representative, he did agree that this is his first piece of legislation just… just in case you were wondering. Unlike my colleague before, I do think it’s a good piece of legislation and I certainly understand being in the shoes that you now fill why you would like to be able to just go ahead and sign the reimbursement claim 09300018.doc 51  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 yourself or your trusted teaching staff so that you don’t have to track down and maybe delay that… that particular piece of reimbursement information by three or four days if your superintendent happened to be in Hawaii on vacation, I mean your board president. Thank you.”

“Thank you.”

“No, Ma’am.” Davis, M.: “Could you tell us where the Bill originated?”

“The Bill originated with a request from both the State Board of Education and fellow superintendents who feel that this would expediate a process and allow the very timely collection of data and kind of eliminate a burden on folks who volunteer their time to serve their school district.” Davis, M.: “Well, Representative, if the president of the school board is the person who currently submits this information and we change it to driver education personnel, do you know how many people that is in Chicago that you… that they would be getting reports from? There are over 600 schools in Chicago and it is inherent in a board president’s position that official documents that create reimbursement should come from his authority as a 09300018.doc 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 president. If you’re a drivers ed instructor, you may not even really be aware of the ramifications of what you’re reporting could mean.”

“At this time, the form is filled out by those same people that you’re speaking of, drivers education teachers routinely fill those out, administrators routinely check those figures and in most cases the board president just signs for that form. And it is one of just a few forms that the board president has to sign for in that manner, many other expense reimbursement forms do not require, at this point, the signature of the board president. And this would kinda fall in line with that idea of not putting him in that position.” Davis, M.: “For example, who would be… who is the chief school administrator for the districts, who are they?”

“Superintendent.” Davis, M.: “So, that person could submit the information or the president of the school board?”

“The superintendent is the chief school administrator, the building administrator would be able to be the chief school administrator or in this Bill the drivers education instructor themselves, that usually fill the form out, would be able to sign.” Davis, M.: “Well…”

“It would eliminate the school board person.” Davis, M.: “To the Bill, Mr. Speaker.”

“Excuse me, this Bill does not deal with private companies, it deals with school district that are under the State Board of Education.” Davis, M.: “But the report that’s being made… listen carefully now, this report that’s being made is required regardless to who does the drivers ed training. In other words, if Sears provides drivers ed for a district.”

“The chief school administrator would have to verify the figures for the reimbursement in that case and sign that if they’re running the expense reimbursement through a school district.” Davis, M.: “Are board presidents so very busy that they cannot take on this duty that is inherently theirs? Are you saying that they are now so busy doing so many things they cannot continue to do what they should do?”

“Representative, I have a great deal of respect for the work that state school board presidents do across the state 09300018.doc 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 on a volunteer basis, it takes many, many, many hours of volunteer time. I know they’re busy people, in many cases they have families, they have business interests, they have other obligations. I certainly think that this would allow them to have that burden lightened just a little bit and still be a very good way that the data could be collected in an expedient manner by the State Board of Education and reimbursement could take place.” Davis, M.: “With all due respect, I urge a ‘no’ vote. I don’t think we should remove authority from board… board… school board presidents. They have not signed on as proponents of this Bill and I don’t think we should remove their authority on such an important issue and especially when it takes into consideration the attendance. Isn’t that right?”

“Yes, Ma’am.” Davis, M.: “And schools are reimbursed based upon attendance of students. Now, the… the… the granting of this to people who teach drivers ed, who could be a coach or what have you, they may not be aware that the attendance is significantly important when the state’s gonna reimburse you based upon the attendance.”

“And that’s my point exactly, the person who does the attendance is the drivers education teacher and there’s no better person to verify that attendance on that form than that teacher supported by the chief administrator. So, the school board president really does not have the same direct 09300018.doc 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 knowledge as the teacher, so I agree with that and that further strengthens this Bill.” Davis, M.: “But I think currently the personnel provides the information to the school board president and the school board president submits the information to the state board and I really don’t think we should change that. There would be so many different reports coming in, especially from Chicago, there are over 600 schools, and you would probably get almost 600 reports. It’s too much, it’s too many and it also doesn’t say what will be the penalty if they lie. What will be the penalty?”

“The penalty’s in the Bill and those people that are currently in those 600 school districts filling out the report likely will be the same exact people, it’ll just be a different person signing the report. The penalty is in the Bill and it very simply states whoever submits a false claim under the Drivers Education Act and makes a false record upon which a claim is based shall be fined in the amount equal to the sum falsely claimed. So, that is the penalty, Ma’am.” Davis, M.: “Well, until I hear from some board presidents I would be fearful of taking their authority from them. This is administrative duty and authority to board presidents and we should not take away their power. Therefore, I urge a ‘no’ vote.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Sponsor had better yield.”

“Excellent. Now, Representative, understand this is your first Bill. I would urge most freshmen to take a little bit of less controversial Bill. Now, you’re dealing with driver education, which I understand at least in 95 percent of the cases would be a young teen under the age of majority and yet you are dealing with oaths. Now, can you tell… expand a little bit about these oaths that are gonna be used with our young teenagers in the state? Isn’t that an inappropriate approach to our students to be swearing, cussing ‘em out for their driving skills for their accidents that they’re having. Is that… is that what this Bill does, is try to swear at our teenagers?”

“Representative, I apologize for not making that clear earlier. The oath or affirmation that takes place takes place by the superintendent or chief operating officer of the school district or the drivers ed teacher…”

“So, you’re saying…”

“…there will be no swearing involved in this.”

“You’re saying that a senior administrator of the school district or their teacher, the one that they are… we train ‘em all through grade school to trust their teachers, to look up to their principals and their superintendents and you’re telling these people that they have to use oath… youth… use oaths against our youth?” 09300018.doc 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003

“No. No. The oath is to affirm that the information that they are sending to the State Board of Education to seek reimbursement for expenses for drivers education are accurate.”

“I… I think I get it. The oaths are to be used against the State Board of Education. Is that… is that what you’re saying, you’re trying to swear at the State Board of Education?”

“I… I would not… I would not swear at the State Board. The oath is just to affirm the reimbursement amount is correct.”

“Only reimbursements, we’re not… we’re not dealing with the student performance in the driving class, and the accidents that they’ve caused, the damage to the school funding because they have to replace all these cars that they ding and bang up.”

“That’s correct.”

“Is that… the oath doesn’t deal with that.”

“That’s correct, Sir.”

“Simply with their performance in the class?”

“That is correct, Sir.”

“I am very, very relieved that you’re not extending the power of the school district as much as I had feared with this Bill. Thank you very much.”

“Yes, Sir.”

“I’m fine.”

“Yes, Sir.”

“Pardon me?”

“Thank you.”

“Okay.”

“Absolutely. The state aid claim form for average daily attendance, the cafeteria expenses. In fact, this is one of just a couple of forms that require that signature and forms that end up with much larger sums of reimbursement are not handled by the school board president, this is one that is and that’s why this… the change is sought.”

“The… the school administrator… the chief school administrator signs the expense reimbursement and the federal forms also for…”

“…lunch.”

“I want the option to be there for the chief school administrator or the drivers ed personnel. The district would make that decision based on their local policies and procedures and based, obviously, upon the drivers ed teacher’s background, expertise, and filling those forms out and sending ‘em. I want that to be the local part of this.”

“Because the cafeteria worker would not have the records necessary or the expense background knowledge to do the drivers ed reimbursement, however I am confident in their ability to gather that information for the cafeteria food service program expenses.”

“I’m aware that that occurs on a regular occasion.”

“The… the Bill allows for the chief building administrator… school administrator to sign that and in most cases the… that person that is off has already provided the necessary information for their reimbursement claim form to be filled out.”

“Thank you.”

“Yes, I did.”

“Thank you.”

“Yes, thank you very much.”

“Yes. Yes. Yes, I plead guilty to that, Mr. Speaker, but…”

“…a …a Representative on your side of the aisle mentioned my name twice in her comments.”

“Well, she said willy-nilly once and I… that’s close enough for me. I… Mr. Speaker, I won’t belabor the issue, I just simply from the bottom of my heart in all sincerity and I mean this, I mean this sincerely, I wanna thank that Representative for mentioning my name, at my age it’s nice to be remembered. Thank you.”

“Yes.”

“No.”

“Absolutely no personal stake in this.”

“No. No.”

“Thank you.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?”

“Having just stepped down as school board president of the third largest high school district in the state, I’d like to thank my fellow freshman, Representative Roger Eddy, for his consideration. Knowing that I sign about 22 hundred diplomas, thousands of achievement certificates and many other documents during the year, I thank him for his 09300018.doc 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 consideration for giving school board presidents one less document to sign.”

“Thank you… Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very concerned about this freshman conspiracy. This is… we’re not gonna allow you guys to band together to try to defeat… defend yourself against us. You’re open game and just remember, Representative, you have not passed your first Bill yet, either.”

“I would only ask that the Bill be considered for its merit and that is that it does attempt to… to make sure that the drivers ed forms are complete, the reimbursement is done correctly and that the board president is not burdened by the process. And thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.”

“Thank… Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise on a point of personal privilege.”

“Yes, I would like to thank the electrician for his timely manner in dealing with my switches that are here, I appreciate it, but too often we take for granted the hard work of the staff of the House and the people that support us to make sure that the process done. I just personally want to thank the electrician and the staff for the hard work that they do for all of us. Thank you.”

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My name was used in debate. Representative, I don’t care if you’re a big shot from the Senate, you’re in the House now and you’re gonna have to deal with all of us experienced Legislators.”

“Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I don’t know what Representative Brunsvold was doing out at the Department of Natural Resources this morning. His sponsorship of this Resolution may actually be a conflict of interest, I don’t know, he seems very… very eager to have this passed. But in all sincerity, Representative, I’d like to join you as a cosponsor and I’m sure others would as well and just let me… any of you who have had the opportunity to work with Dr. Manning knows how dedicated he is to the task. I… he has my utmost respect in that he has always been someone who has stood for the multiuse concept of our natural lands, he doesn’t set… he doesn’t set aside lands for what used to derisively called ‘tree huggers’, he encourages all people to get out and enjoy the outdoors, the natural resources of the great State of Illinois and he’s done a great deal to add acreage to those natural 09300018.doc 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 93rd GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 2/20/2003 resources. I think he leaves the Department of Natural Resources far better than it was when he came in. And all of you and all of us who have had an opportunity to have worked with him, wish him well, we will miss him. I can’t imagine in my wildest dream I have no idea who could possibly take Dr. Manning’s place, but I’m sure the Governor will find somebody who will make that attempt, I can only hope they do half the job that Dr. Manning has done over the last 12 years.”