Illinois House Floor Debate — October 3, 2007

"The hour of 11:00 having arrived, the House will be in order. The Members will be in their seats. Members and guests are asked to refrain from starting their laptops, turn off all cell phones and pagers, and rise for the invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance. We shall be led in prayer today by Pastor Bob Spriggs, who is the Pastor of the Sacred Heart Catholic Church in Effingham. Pastor Spriggs is the guest of Representative Reis."

"Representative Chapa LaVia, will you led us in the Pledge."

Speaker Hannig: "Roll Call for Attendance. Representative Currie." 09500154.doc 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"Thank you, Speaker. Please let the record show that Representatives Nekritz and Patterson are excused today."

"Representative Bost."

"Mr. Clerk, take the record. There are 111 Members answering a Roll… the Roll Call. A Quorum is present. Mr. Clerk, read the Committee Reports."

"We're going to start with page 16 of the Calendar, under the Order of Amendatory Vetoes. And 09500154.doc 2  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 Representative Rich Myers is recognized on House Bill 291, Representative Myers."

Speaker Hannig: "So, is there any discussion? So, Representative Myers moves that the House Bill 291, 'do pass', notwithstanding the specific recommendations for change of the Governor. All those in favor vote 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 104 voting 'yes' and 7 voting 'no'. And this Motion, having received a Supermajority… this Bill, having received… this Bill, having received a Supermajority, House Bill 291 is hereby declared passed, notwithstand… notwithstanding the specific recommendations for change of the Governor. Representative Bellock, on page 17 of the Calendar, you have House Bill 1268. You're recognized on your Motion."

"You've heard the Lady's Motion. Is there any discussion? Then the question is, 'Shall… Then the… then Representative Bell… Bellock moves that House Bill 1268 'do pass', notwithstanding the specific recommendations for change of the Governor. All those in favor vote 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Reis, do you wish 09500154.doc 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 to be recorded? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 111 voting 'yes' and 0 voting 'no'. The Motion, having received a Supermajority, House Bill 1268, is hereby declared passed, notwithstanding the specific recommendations for change of the Governor. Representative Kosel, you have House Bill 1303, you're recognized for a Motion."

"You heard the Lady's Motion. Is there any discussion? Then… then Representative… then Representative Kosel moves to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to House Bill 1303. All those in favor vote 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. This requires 71 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative… all done? Okay. Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, the Motion have… on this question, there are 87 voting 'yes' and 24 voting 'nay'. The Motion, having received a Con… a Three-fifths Constitutional Majority, the specific recommendations of the Governor as to House Bill 1303 are accepted and the Bill is declared passed in that form. Representative Mulligan, you have House Bill 1539. Out of the record. Representative Joyce, you're recognized on House Bill 1729. Representative Flowers, on House Bill 1759, the Lady's recognized for a Motion."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I move to accept the Governor's Amendatory Veto on House Bill 1759." 09500154.doc 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"You heard the Lady's Motion. Is there any discussion? Then Representative Flowers moves to accept the specific recomen… excuse me, Representative Rose."

"Indicates she'll yield."

"You know, I'm glad you asked that question 'cause quite frankly, I really don't know and neither did he give a reason."

"He did not give a reason."

"Yeah."

"Well, you know, I don't know. But, you know, when I read down here the Governor does not indicate the reasons for the recommendations for change, despite the fact what he changed it to is what the Bill already does. So, therefore…"

"Well, there were some technical changes. Whatever… but whatever it was we had to clean that up because there was a problem with his Veto message. His Veto message was in error…"

"And we had to make some corrections in the Governors Veto message, but that's okay. I will accept all of this 09500154.doc 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 because we corrected the Veto message and made that correct."

"Pardon me?"

"I'm okay with it."

"You okay, I'm okay. You okay?"

"I'm okay, thank you."

"Thank you."

"Any further discussion? Then Representative Flowers moves to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to House Bill 1759. All those in favor vote 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? This requires 60 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 111 voting 'yes' and 0 voting 'no'. The Motion, having received a Constitutional Majority, the specific recommendations of the Governor as to House Bill 1759 are accepted. And this Bill is declared passed in that form. Representative Fritchey, you have House Bill 3378, do you wish to debate the Motion? Representative Fritchey."

"Thank you, Speaker, Members of the Body. The underlying Bill was a Bill to clean up a pension loophole that was brought to the attention of many in Cook County by some actions earlier this year. There was overwhelming 09500154.doc 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 support for the Bill. The Governor's Amendatory Veto, candidly is somewhat inexplicable, and if read in any type of logical sense is actually unconstitutional. We believe that the Legislature got it right the first time and we ask for… I would ask for a… assistance in overriding the Veto. Thank you."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Rose."

"Indicates he'll yield."

"Essentially, of why… what I have tried to do and what the Body joined me in doing was closing a pension loophole that seemed ripe for abuse. Obviously, we can not modify the pension rights of people that are vested, per constitutional rights, and we were careful not to do that in the underlying legislation. What the Amendatory Veto would do actually is close the loophole for people that are vested and leave it open for people that aren't, which really defeats what we were trying to do. And as I said wouldn't sustain a constitutional muster as well. We reached out to the Governor's Office to try to get an understanding of what it is they were trying to do, which is not what they did. But we did not hear back from them. I remain confident on my own review, on the review of staff as well, that we got it right the first time that we are 09500154.doc 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 cleaning up a potential for pension abuse. That this is the right thing to do, both equitably and legally."

"I've said what I have to say on this."

Speaker Hannig: "Represent… okay. Is there any further discussion? Then Representative Fritchey moves that House Bill 3578 'do pass', notwithstanding the specific recommendations for change of the Governor. All those in favor vote 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. This requires 71 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Schock and Representative Washington, do you wish to be recorded? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 111 voting 'yes', and 0 voting 'no'. The Motion, having received a Supermajority, House Bill 3578 is hereby declared passed, notwithstanding the specific recommendations for change of the Governor. We skipped over two (2) of these Amendatory Vetoes because the Sponsors were temporarily off the floor, but I thought I saw Representative Mulligan and Representative Joyce in the chamber. Representative Joyce, do you wish us to… do you 09500154.doc 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 wish to call House Bill 1729, the Motion? Okay, Representative Joyce."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would move to override the Governor's Amendatory Veto on House Bill 1729. This deals with the board and care regulation. We… this Bill passed 57 to 0 out of the Senate, 84-22 out of the House. The reason for this Bill in the first place was to deal with the… merge the regulations of board and care homes under the Single Assisted Living and Shared Housing Act. Part of the reason is that 7 of the 20 registered homes… board and care homes have been recorded as violation… in violation for operating as an unlicensed… unlicensed nursing home. I have been in contact with the Governor's Office. Their language, basically would make this permissive instead of mandatory. But they don't seem to have that much of a problem with the override. They're not going to complain about it. I'd appreciate an 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman has made a Motion to override the Governor's Veto. Is there any discussion? Then Representative Joyce moves that House Bill 1729 'do pass,' notwithstanding the specific recommendations for change of the Governor. All those in favor vote 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. This requires 71 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 98 voting 'yes' and 13 voting 'no'. The Motion, having received a Supermajority, House Bill 1729, is hereby declared passed, notwithstanding the 09500154.doc 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 specific recommendations for change of the Governor. And Representative Mulligan, do you wish to debate House Bill 1539? On your… on your Motion? Representative Mulligan."

"Representative Mulligan."

"You've heard the Lady's Motion. Is there any discussion? Representative Boland."

"Yes, Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates she'll yield."

"Representative Mulligan, I was the Sponsor of the Veterans Lottery. It was originally proposed for five (5) purposes, I believe. Now… so, your legislation actually is to put it back for those different purposes rather than… you're saying the Governor wanted to use a major portion of it for just veterans' health care?"

"Right, well as I said, I was the original Sponsor of that and the intent was to have it used for any of those purposes. So, what you're saying here is to override it we're sending it back to what my original intention was on the original legislation?"

"Okay, thank you very much."

"Representative Chapa LaVia."

"Will the… will the Representative yield?"

"Indicates she'll yield." 09500154.doc 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"Representative, have you heard from any veterans groups asking you not to override the Veto, 'cause, there's a little confusion on our side?"

"Okay, that's my only question. Thank you."

Speaker Hannig: "Is there any further discussion? Representative Mulligan, would you like to close?"

"So, Representative Mulligan moves that House Bill 1539 'do pass', notwithstanding the specific recommendations for change of the Governor. All those in favor vote 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. This requires 71 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Jefferies and Beaubien, do you wish to be recorded? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 111 voting 'yes' and 0 voting 'no'. This Motion, having received a Supermajority, House Bill 1539 is hereby declared passed, notwithstanding the specific recommendations for change of the Governor. Representative Harris, for what reason do you rise?"

"Point of personal privilege, Mr. Speaker."

"State you point."

"Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise as we discuss the Governor's Vetoes, to keep in mind another action the Governor has taken in applying a BAND-AID to the Mass Transit Bill. We must also take care of this issue. I'm asking on behalf of the fifty-thousand (50,000) households in my district who count on mass transit 09500154.doc 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 everyday and we must also take care of the hundred thousand (100,000) households in my district who use automobiles. And we have to be sure we have a Capital Bill to do our roads and bridges, so that all Illinoisans, whether they take private or public transportation are taken care of. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"We're going to go to page 15 of the Calendar now, under the Order of Total Veto Motions. And Representative Molaro, you have House Bill 1124. So, you're recognized on that Motion. Do you wish to take… okay, we'll come back to it at the end of the rotation, Representative. So, we're going to move down the list. Representative Cole, you have House Bill 1242. Do you wish to debate that Motion at this time? Representative Cole. Proceed Representative."

"You've heard the Lady's Motion. Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black." 09500154.doc 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"She indicates she'll yield."

Speaker Hannig: "Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative McCarthy."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she'll yield."

"Representative, the… I'm reading our analysis and it basically says that this expired at the end of 2004, tax year. Mr. Tryon, please sit down."

"Okay, so we've gone two (2) years without this? And this would reinstate it with all the same rules that it had before?"

"Okay, just for my own education here, was there any limit on this? That's where I see a problem. Is there any limit? It's 30 percent of their start-up cost, correct?"

"I appreciate it. I mean, I've gone to some of these businesses where they have a nice adequate day-care facility for their employees. But then there's other ones that I think are like the Cadillac of Cadillac's and I don't think we should be responsible… if they decide to do that, that's all well and good for them. But if they make that decision, I certainly think there should be some limit 09500154.doc 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 on this so that people just can't build anything they want and then take 30 percent of the cost of that as a tax credit. So, hopefully…"

"Okay."

"This is just start-up cost right, 30 percent of start-up cost, not operational?"

"Operat…, okay."

"Okay. Well, I would appreciate it if you get that information back to me, but I do think there should be some limit. I don't think they should be able to build a TajMahal if they want. And there are some that are… I mean that are really beautiful. But I think if a business takes on that responsibility they should truthfully take it on and not use it as a tax credit. So, I hope there is some 09500154.doc 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 reasonable limit as to how high they can estimate their start-up costs."

"Thank you, I appreciate that."

"Is there further discussion? The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Rose."

"No, it's actually House Bill 1242."

"Mr. Clerk, could you… could you correct the board?"

"Any further discussion? Then Representative Cole, you're recognized to close."

"Representative Cole moves that House Bill 1242 'do pas', notwithstanding the specific recommendations for change of the Governor. Okay, Representative Cole moves that House Bill 1242 'do pass', notwithstanding the Veto of the Governor. All those in favor vote 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. This requires 71 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 111 voting 'yes' and 0 voting 'no'. The Motion having received a Supermajority, House Bill 09500154.doc 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 1242, is declared passed, notwithstanding the Veto of the Governor. Representative Ford, do you wish to debate House Bill 1332? Representative Ford."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I move to override House Bill 1332. First, let me thank all the people that supported House Bill 1332 to get it to this point and the staff that helped me get it to this point. I hope we continue to work toward getting House Bill 1332 passed. Today, I move to override the Governor's Veto. His Veto came as a surprise to me, given his stance on improvement and improving the quality of life for all people. House Bill 1332 shows the people of Illinois that Illinois may fall short of living up to its constitutional responsibility, the Constitution that I swore to say that… that I will uphold. House Bill 1332 shows me exactly how difficult it is for people to get jobs. And today I'm move to say that we override the Governor's Veto of House Bill 1332, thank you."

"So you've heard the Gentleman's Motion. Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Crawford, Representative Eddy."

"Indicates he'll yield."

"The CMS position remains as it did when… previously." 09500154.doc 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"I don't know. I know… do you have it? I'm not looking at any opposition to this Bill at this time."

"Only the Governor."

"You're wrong when you say that. This legislation says, 'if the Federal or the State law disqualifies a person convicted of a certain offense from holding a position an application for that position may inquire as to whether the applicant has been convicted of a disqualifying offense.' So, no."

"Not to report certain crimes. But once again, I go back to tell you that this legislation says that if the state disqualifies a person for a position such as what you're talking about, then they must report it."

"The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black."

Speaker Hannig: "The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Molaro."

"Well… Thank you, Ladies and Gentlemen. There's no doubt what the last speaker said has some validity. You could always make a Bill a little bit better. And Representative Ford would certainly… if this was… we're lucky enough to get the requisite amount of votes and both chambers overrode this vote, he would ce… Veto, he would certainly sit down and talk to anybody. But I think we're going too far afield and we're saying things that just aren't part of this Bill. If you go for a CMS application today and you go fill out for a state job, the question that's on there is whether or not you have ever plea guilty 09500154.doc 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 or been convicted of any criminal offense? That's the question of anywhere of a three (3)- to a twenty (20)- page document. Representative says we should put violent offense because a lot of people were placed on supervision. And what we have is if you check that box 'yes', you never get to the second step. There is no doubt on applications for a… from police officers to other ones that you can ask anything you want. All this is doing is saying on the application itself you should ask if it's a violent offense. Once you get past the application process and you're being interviewed for the job, or your being hired for the job, you have to go through fingerprinting, you have to go through all kinds of interviews, and the interviewer could certainly get into what kind of criminal background, were you arrested for a DUI, what exactly did you get suspended, were you arrested for retail theft, oh you got supervision or you didn't. And you don't want to hire, him you don't hire him. But, someone who has had supervision for retail theft should not have to answer that question and be barred from looking at state employment. That just makes simple sense. We're not asking for anything else but just to say violent offense, fine, but if you got supervision for retail theft, you shouldn't be barred right at the application process. That's all this Bill does. Now if you want to talk about unintended consequences we can… well, we can come up with four thousand (4,000) anecdotal stories on any Bill that we pass. I think we're going too far afield, again all we're talking about is the application that you have to fill out, 09500154.doc 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 not the interview process. I want to make that clear. You file an application, if your application's picked and you're interviewed you can be asked anything at the interview process. And if you have to explain your retail theft, and if the department doesn’t want you on there because you've been convicted for retail theft, then they don't have to hire you. We're not going that far, we're not saying what they have to do at the interview process. We're just saying at the point of application you should be able not to have that question answered because that should be left for the interviewer so this way you can explain that you got supervision. If not, then we might as well eliminate supervision for retail theft and all these kind… 'cause it won't matter. If you have to answer the question, because as you know, to get supervision you have to… that is a conviction you have to answer 'yes' on the application. And if you're going to be disqualified or you're going to be looked at with jaundice eyes right at that part of it, then we should also, if we're going to not override this Veto, then we should bring a Bill that gets rid of supervision throughout the State of Illinois and it should say that if you're just convicted for any small infraction, we don't want you working in the state. We don't want you anywhere, and we should figure out if we could have a place where we could have all people who are convicted of small crimes, like retail theft, where they can live somewhere in this state because we don't want them to even fill out applications in the State of Illinois. It's a small Bill to help people who were convicted of 09500154.doc 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 small crimes and received supervision and I think it's a good Bill and we should override. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Sacia."

"Indicates he'll yield."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Howard."

"Yes, thank very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he'll yield."

"Representative Ford, does this Bill, at all, preclude a background check?"

"No, you still would have a right to a background check."

"Does it preclude anything else happening that would not give the employer the opportunity to determine whether or not they want this person as an employee?"

"No, Ma'ma."

"Your… your whole intention is to try and give people an opportunity to get an interview. Is that correct?"

"That's is Right."

"To the Bill. My colleagues, there is going to have to be a time when we begin to understand that too many of our people in this State are walking around without jobs because nobody is interested in giving them a chance. Many of these people have made mistakes, they're very sorry that they've made mistakes, they want to atone for the mistakes, they want to get on with there lives, they want to become productive citizens. If we never give them a chance, then they will continue to be recidivism statistics. Why not allow them to have an interview and let them demonstrate to that employer that they are the people that they need to get that job? What is the problem with that? The employer has a safeguard. They need but do the background check, 09500154.doc 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 they need but talk about it during the interview process. This is a… this is a safety… neighborhood safety issue, people who walk around the streets and have no hope are never going to be able to be productive. They will never have any hope that there will be a time when they can become productive citizens. We must at some point decide to give them that opportunity. I urge you to vote to override the Veto. Thank you."

"The Gentleman form Champaign, Representative Rose."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Dunkin."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he'll yield."

"I think Representative Connie Howard spoke very eloquent when she mentioned the fact that no state employee, no agency will be denied a background check on a particular interviewee. If you knew how many people that have been released from the Department of Corrections in this State that live in my district or my colleague Representative Ford's district and downstate here in Sangamon County and various parts of this state who have been out of prison for about ten (10), fifteen (15), twenty (20) years are simply looking for a second chance and all 09500154.doc 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 they want is an interview. They're educated, they are motivated they may impress the interviewer and all an application says is that there is no criminal background check box right there at the onset. That's all it does. It does not prohibit any state agency from doing his or her due diligence, whether it's criminal or references, et cetera. this is simple legislation, it's straightforward in that it gives people an opportunity to sit in front of someone and get a chance to be voted up or down on at the onset. Unfortunately, what typically happens is when we see, 'have you ever been arrested'? And that box is checked 'yes', it tends to go in the garbage. But, if you have political clout, or maybe if you know someone, the owner, maybe if you’re a relative of your… or if you're from a certain community, it doesn't make a difference whether that box is on that application or not, now, we know that. Most of us here in this chamber have assisted some of those individuals whose backgrounds wasn't as favorable as we would've liked, maybe. And that's not against the law, to give a person a second chance or at least a first look without being tossed in the… in the trash can or pushed to the side and they simply want… all it is, is an interview. This Bill simply gives people, at face value, an opportunity to interact with a potential employer. That's it, with no discrimination at the onset. And again, as he stated so, so clearly, they have a right to do their background check, their due diligence and so forth. Let's look to pass this Bill out of this chamber. Let's give Illinoisans a chance to get back on their feet, 09500154.doc 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 to take care of themselves, to take care of their families, their children so they can walk upright like many of us. And some of those people who don't have the political influence as some of the people that we've helped in our day. I would encourage a strong 'aye' vote for this legislation. Thank you."

Speaker Hannig: "The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Reboletti."

"He indicates he'll yield."

"What… what's your question?"

"What I'm asking is for the state to take a serious approach and do a criminal background check, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying we should not rely on a piece of paper. You know… you know… you heard the old saying, 'you can't judge a book by its cover'? This is an example of judging a book by its cover. Open the book up and give the person an opportunity and interview them. You know, some people do things like say, I want to fight and I want to 09500154.doc 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 make sure that you hire people. This Bill doesn't say that you have to hire a sole. This Bill simply says that you should open the book and give the person a chance. That's all it does."

"No, it has… that's good dialog, but it doesn't talk about anything but allowing the person to sit before you. You know, I think a perfect example is, I don't think any of us would probably be elected today if we had to submit an application with one shot at it. But what we get to do is go throughout the district and sell ourselves to people. And when we sell ourselves to people, it allows us the opportunity for people to hire us. And that's what 09500154.doc 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 happened to everyone in this Body. But, you know what, people in the State of Illinois, they're being held back and the Constitution of Illinois is not being upheld because the constitution says provide a opportunity for the fullest development of an individual, and that's not what we're doing."

"Now, if you… if you're for… if you're for expungement then you should be for this because I don't want to hide it."

"Yeah, but…".

"Well, you know that's… that's an approach that I think that I would be for, for some form of expungement. But when you tie this to my legislation and all the other people that help… that's sponsoring this legislation, expungement is hiding the fact. This legislation says, keep the facts there in front of you. Look at it, look I was convicted when I was eighteen (18) years old, of something that was silly, but now I'm twenty-five (25), twenty-seven (27) years old with a family. Please, please, can I come sit before you and let me plea my case to you and say look, that was a mistake, I'm qualified, I can work for you, I'm trustworthy. You know what, you can watch me. You're going to have me on probation anyway, just like the next person. Boland for example, he could very well be the person that we have to worry about without an offense. But guess what? We're not worried about Boland, we're only worried about that person, he puts himself out there. He has a criminal background check on record and there's no reason for us to deny a person the opportunity that the constitution says that we should."

"Thank you. That gives me hope."

"Representative Scully."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he'll yield."

"Representative Ford, you stated that within this legislation it is permissible for the interviewer to ask the question of whether someone's been convicted of the felony. Is that correct?"

"For the employer to ask? You know, the legislation just says that it does not prohibit the employer from doing a background check. Maybe I didn't understand your…"

"It's my understanding that the employer… the interviewer, is permitted to inquire."

"Okay, Yes."

"Is that correct? Now, is there any criteria for when the employer can ask that question?"

"No criteria in this legislation."

"Are you concerned about the possibility that the employer would use that discretion, and only ask that question of certain protected classes of people?" 09500154.doc 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"I'm concerned of that."

"Representative, I am concerned about that. I am also concerned of the potential liability for the State of Illinois. Let me give you a very simple example. Ladies and Gentlemen, I do a lot of work in the mortgage lending field and you've probably all filled out home mortgage applications. And you've seen that four (4)-page application, it's very complicated. But that application asks every legally permitted question, and if a loan officer comes to me and say, 'you know I want to ask this question of the borrower but it's not on the form'. My response is, there's probably a law that says you're not allowed to ask that question. I am deeply concerned about the possibility of giving that discretion to an interviewer and I'm concerned about the risk that interviewers will be discriminatory, illegally discriminatory in when they ask that question. If I was giving legal advise to interviewers for the State of Illinois… Ladies and Gentlemen, please pay attention. To any interviewer for the State of Illinois, if this law is passed they should never, ever ask the question unless they have clear, unequivocal, nondiscriminatory written standards for when they do or do not ask the question. To take this question off of the application and leave it purely up to the discretion of the interviewer is a huge legal problem, both for the applicants and for the State of Illinois. Thank you."

Speaker Hannig: "The Gentleman from Bond, Representative Stephens." 09500154.doc 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"The Gentleman moves the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?' All in favor say 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it. And Representative Ford, you're recognized to close."

"Thank you very much. Well, you know this… this House Bill 1332 only affects state employment. It does nothing for private entities. It's only saying that the state should live up to the constitution and allow people to be developed into their fullest form to serve as citizens of this country, this state as well. It's very disappointing to know that people in this day and age can't really understand that this is a Bill that provides opportunity and poses no danger. People everyday are hired on jobs and we have no idea who we're hiring. And those are the people that's causing most of the problems in employment, not people that's not hired, otherwise employment would be in much better shape than it is today. Given the fact that Illinois has failed the kids in education, in all communities, even down is Springfield, I believe, Springfield has the poorest school districts and communities here in the State of Illinois. And for the Governor to Veto this legislation when he says that he's for the improvement of the quality of life for all people is surprising. So, hopefully, you'll see it fit to give me an 'aye' vote for House Bill 1332 because it poses no problems for the people of Illinois. Thank you." 09500154.doc 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"Representative Ford moves that House Bill 1332 'do pass', notwithstanding the Veto of the Governor. All those in favor vote 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. This requires 71 votes. Have all voted wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 54 voting 'yes' and 57 voting 'no'. And the Motion fails. It's a renewable Motion, Representative Ford. Representative Beaubien, you're recognized on House Bill 1558. Out of the record. Representative Poe on House Bill… excuse me. Representative Rose, for what reason do you rise?"

"State your point."

"Representative Mitchell."

"And Representative Poe, you have House Bill 1960. You're recognized on the Motion."

"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. Is there any discussion? So, Representative Poe moves that the House 'do pass' House Bill 1960, notwithstanding the Veto of the Governor. All those in favor vote 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? This requires 71 votes. Have all voted wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Hoffman, Gordon, Dugan, Bradley, do you wish to be recorded? Representative Rich Bradley, do you wish to be recorded? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 111 voting 'yes' and 0 voting 'no'. The Motion having received a Supermajority, House Bill 1960 is hereby declared passed, notwithstanding the Veto of the Governor. Representative Molaro, do you wish to debate House Bill 1124, the Motion to override? Representative Molaro."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is the Bill that we discussed before and basically what this does is… you know, you take the Western Open, which is a golf tournament here in Illinois, and you take any bowling leagues, when you're in the Western Golf Open and you have a tournament, they're 09500154.doc 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 actually playing for prize money. And the reason that it's legal in the State of Illinois is there is a skill involved in it so it's really not gambling. What they have in about… a lot of taverns and a lot of VFW halls in Illinois, for those of us over the age of forty (40) you remember bowling games that you used the little puck. They would have leagues about bowling games they would have leagues about dart tournaments, and those were all legal in the State of Illinois, there never was a problem. The State of Illinois, we cut up the Department of Revenue into certain areas. And there's… one of the agents thinks that when the dart games are computer games or when the bowling games are computer games even though there's skill, because it's a computer game, that that shouldn't be allowed. The rest of the state it's allowed. All this qualifies as to what the word 'skill' means in skill games. Obviously, card games… all those other things are exempted. But, anybody who's played Golden Tee or played any trivia games… you know Golden Tee or these hunting games or these bowling games, They are a game of skills and this allows the VFWs in the… and the restaurants to hold leagues like they always have in the past. So, it defines what 'skill' is and that's all the Bill does and we would ask that the Motion be Overridden."

"The Gentleman has made a Motion to override the Governor's Veto of House Bill 1124. Is there any discussion? Okay, Representative… Representative Molaro moves that the House… moves that House Bill 1224 'do Pass', notwithstanding the Veto of the Governor. All those in 09500154.doc 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 favor vote 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. This requires 71 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr…. Last call. Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 67 voting 'yes' and 44 voting 'no'. And the Motion fails. Representative… this is also a renewable Motion, so you can file a new Motion. Representative Molaro."

"I just… no, I just want to make sure my microphone is working because, I don't know if the Membership heard what I had to say and I just… It's working, so I guess I have to accept the vote. So, thank you."

Speaker Hannig: "With that eloquent speech in opposition… Representative Tryon, for what reason do you rise?"

"State your point."

Speaker Hannig: "We're now going to go to page 8 of the Calendar, Senate Bills-Second Reading. And on that Order is Senate Bill 753. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"I'm advised, Representative, that we need to withdraw Amendment #1."

"That's correct. Withdraw Amendment #1."

"So, we'll withdraw Amendment #1. Mr. Clerk and then Representative Turner on Amendment #2."

"And Amendment #2 basically, just changed the effective date of this legislation. The… deals with the Supreme Court Historic Preservation Committee, and it moves the date from October 24, which is when they were supposed to have set the additional appointments, to January 1, 2008. I move for the adoption of Amendment #2 to 753."

"Is there any discussion? Then all in favor of the Gentleman's Amendment say 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Any further Amendments?"

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

Speaker Hannig: "The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Turner."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, I move for the adoption. As I explained earlier, Amendment #2 primarily just changed the effective date in terms of when those appointments need to be made for the Supreme Court 09500154.doc 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 Preservation Committee. And I move for the adoption of Senate Bill 753."

"Is there any discussion? Then the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All in favor vote 'aye'; opposed 'nay'. The voting is open. This requires 71 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Wait, Mitchell, Collins, do you wish to be recorded? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 111 voting 'yes' 0 voting 'no'. And this Bill, having received a Three-fifths Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed."

"Representative Turner in the Chair. On page 15 of the Calendar, we have House Bill 978. Representative Hannig."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I would move to override the Governor's Veto on House Bill 978. The Bill deals with the Procurement Policy Board and this is a board that was established a few years ago as a Legislative Branch Agency. And like the Auditor General, the purpose of the Procurement Policy Board is to serve as a watchdog on the Executive Branch of Government, particularly the leases that are executed out at Central Management Services. So, currently, the Procurement Policy Board has the power to review leases that CMS makes when they're renewing leases. That power will sunset unless we override the Governor's Veto of this Bill. So, for those of you who believe that the Legislative Branch of Government has an obligation to serve as a check on the Executive Branch, this is a Bill that we need to have in 09500154.doc 45  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 order to ensure that this Legislative Branch Agency, the Procurement Policy Board has the tools that they need to be the watchdog that we want them to be over the Central Management Services Agency. The… the Bill itself simply extends the sunset. So in other words, it simply allows them to continue doing what they already do. I'm not certain why anyone in our branch of government would object to that, but clearly the Governor no longer wished to have this agency this… this legislative agency overseeing some of the actions of the Executive Branch. So, Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a good government Bill, and I would simply ask for your 'yes' vote."

"The Gentleman from Crawford, Representative Eddy, for what reason do you rise?"

"Indicates he will."

"I… I'm not certain what that actually means. These are situations where people have significant leases, where there is most cases will… in almost every case will be no alternative in the community for a competitive situation to 09500154.doc 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 exist, where that lease holder has probably the only building in town that's suitable. And so, by having the Procurement Policy Board available to review the renewal we can make sure that the State's getting the best… the best rates that's available. So, simply by having the watchdog group with the authority means that CMS is more likely to act in the best interests of the State anyway knowing that the Procurement Policy Board could object. And then there are cases where leases are signed that are not in the best interests of the State and the Procurement Policy Board does object and that serves the best interests of the State. So… so that's the way that the situation works, Representative. And I'm not certain how, by letting that sunset, we would make things better."

"Right. These are going to be cases where probably if… if we went to bids, there would only be one bidder, and that's the person who holds the contract now. So, in those cases, we would say it's okay to negotiate because the bidding process really isn't going to work very well, so it's okay to just negotiate with that bidder. But now we want to have the watchdog group, the Procurement Policy Board, have the authority to make sure that whatever is 09500154.doc 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 agreed to by the Executive Branch and the private person, that we want them to be able to review that and say whether that's in the best interests of the State. So, it's an added opportunity to ensure that the taxpayer get the best bang for there buck."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black for what reason do you rise?"

"The Lady from Kankakee, Representative Dugan for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you, Speaker, To the Bill. I, too, was one that kind of misunderstood what this original Bill, the underlying Bill was doing. Procurement, of course, is a issue of mine. I just did the Resolution to get up a task force to look at procurement policies in the State of Illinois. Already I've received an answer on procurement and it had to do with this Bill. This Bill is needed… I mean certainly to override the Motion, this type of thing, the sunset needs to be extended so we do have, as Representative Hannig said and others said, the oversight on leases and things that are done in this state. It's imperative that we have a watch doggroup and certainly this particular piece of legislation allows that to continue. 09500154.doc 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 So, originally, I had voted against the Bill, not understanding the full impact. Now that I do understand the impact of what this does, this is in the best interest of the state and certainly for the people of this state to make sure that there's someone watching over and just looking again at what happens when we do leases to make sure it's in the best interest of the people of the State of Illinois and us as a Legislator. So, I certainly stand in strong support of overriding the Veto of the Governor on House Bill 978. Thank you."

Speaker Turner: "The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Mathias, for what reason do you rise?"

"Representative Hannig to close."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. In short, this is a good government proposal. It's a way that we can have a watchdog agency from the Legislative Branch of government oversee some activities of the Executive Branch. I can understand why the Governor might Veto it, but I think it's in the best interests of the citizens of Illinois that we have this arrangements. And I'd ask for your 'yes' vote."

"Representative Hannig moves that House Bill 978, 'do pass', notwithstanding the Veto of the Governor. All those in favor should vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'no'. The voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. There are 106 voting 'aye', 5 voting 'no', 0 'presents. And this Motion, having received a Supermajority, House Bill 978 is hereby declared passed, notwithstanding the Veto of the Governor. The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black, for what reason do you rise?"

"State your inquiry."

"I think Representative Osterman may be able to answer that question, he's fairly close to the field I think. I don't see Representative Feigenholtz, she's not here and… Oh, we'll let Rep… we'll let Rep…"

"Lets start with Harry… lets start with Harry, and think I think John D’Amico has a rep… recommendation. and maybe by that time Sarah will be back. I think she's printing up extra tickets right now. But, Representative Osterman, the Gentleman from Cook."

"Representative Black, earlier today I happened to eavesdrop or overhear my good friend Sarah's conversation and she was in contact to people on your behalf. And, you know, I think given all of the years and years and years of your support of the City of Chicago and all you've done on the issue of parking tickets, on the issue of gun control, on all these things, you know, we're working really hard to make sure that your in the ball game but more importantly, we want to find a place where you're Winnebago will be able 09500154.doc 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 to park. So, but, Representative Feigenholtz is working diligently on your behalf, 'cause we know your good luck and we hope you bring some of that luck up to the north side of the city."

"On page 15 of the Calendar, we have House Bill 664, under the Order of… Representative Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker and Members of the House. Yesterday I filed a Motion to accept the Governor's amendatory changes to House Bill 664. Today I filed a Motion to override the Governor's changes for the reason… for the reason, the simple reason that a careful nose count 09500154.doc 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 of the votes in the Senate suggest that there are not enough votes in that chamber to go with the Governor. That leads us to a situation where we are all or nothing. And I would suggest to the Members of this changer… cha… this chamber that the Bill that we sent to the Governor, House Bill 664 in its original form, was in fact, pretty good legislation that will provide property tax relief to people across the State of Illinois and it will provide special protections, continued special protections, for the people, the homeowners who live in Cook County. That program will phase out after three (3) years although, obviously, if we need to do more work in the future this is a continuing Body and we will be in a position to do so. I'm not going to talk about the changes between the Governor's version and ours, simply because that's not the basis for the override Motion. The override Motion is to say we cannot leave Springfield without providing property tax relief to the people we represent. In addition to the 7 percent solution, which I recognize may not be as helpful to higher-end property owners as the Governor's version, there still is a lot of help in that program. And in addition, there are increases statewide to the General Homestead Exemption, the Senior Homestead Exemption, a new Disabled Homestead Exemption, a new exemption for returning veterans, a new exemption for disabled veterans, an increase in eligibility for the Senior Freeze and the Circuit Breaker and the opportunity for local governments to abate properties, homes that are owned by people, widows or widowers whose emergency personnel, husbands or wives 09500154.doc 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 were killed in the line of duty. Again we're in a situation where we take what we get or we have to walk away from this issue. I would urge Members of this chamber that it is a better thing that we do for our constituents, whether we live in Cook, Kendall or Boone Counties, a better thing to override the Governor's Veto and send again to the people House Bill 664 in its present state than it would be to walk away from this Veto Session with nothing. I urge your 'aye' votes."

Speaker Turner: "The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Osterman for what reason do you rise?"

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"The… I'll go straight to the Bill in my remarks on the Bill. And Ladies and Gentlemen, I rise as someone who's a cosponsor of this Bill I rise as someone that's spoke to each of you, or many of you about this Bill but I rise as someone who was sent done here to protect the taxpayers of my community. And Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I will tell you that I am incredibly frustrated with the way this is being dealt with. I stand before you today because the people in my community are incredibly frustrated with the way this is being dealt with. The Sponsor of the Bill has said that the Senate doesn't have the votes to pass the Bill. Senate, in committee yesterday passed the Bill that's the exact same language as the Governor's Amendatory Veto that's going to be coming over here, one would suggest in the day or two. If we pass this today, this is going to go over there and we are going to 09500154.doc 56  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 be sending Bills back and forth. What concerns me even more though is that on an issue that affects taxpayers in Cook County and taxpayers around the state, that the Leadership has not gotten together to work on this issue. Those that support the original underlying Bill know that this was a long negotiated process. The Governor did an Amendatory Veto that changed that. So, the choice that we have as Members is to continue the back and forth with the Senate, or we can encourage our Leadership to work on a compromise. I would like to see, and I think the people that I represent would like to see, Democrats in the House, Republicans in the House working with the Democrats in the Senate, the Republicans in the Senate and our Governor on a compromised piece of legislation that we can support. All of us know that Bills are revived here every day. I don't want to vote against the Bill or have a bill that's defeated that… that will give no property tax relief. If I thought for a second that this was the last bite at the apple, I may support it. But moreover people, the people that sent us here are watching how we work on this issue. And if we cannot get this issue right, I will say to you that I hardly believe we'll be able to deal with a capital program for the state, long term school funding, and a host of other issues. So as individual Members, 118 of us and the Senate, we have to urge our Leaders to come together. There should be a compromise that we all can support and more importantly, the people back home would get relief and begin to gain confidence in this process." 09500154.doc 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

Speaker Turner: "The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Fritchey, for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you, Speaker. To the Motion."

"Motion."

"I'd… I'd like to echo, all be it probably not as eloquently, the words of Representative Osterman. Ladies and Gentlemen, if there was a sound track to what has happened with this legislation it would be called the Springfield Shuffle. So much time has been spent by all of you, to whom this Bill is important, to some of you to whom the Bill is not important but have been gracious enough to listen to us over the last months and years about the importance of this issue to us and more so to the people that we represent. Legi… Legislating and the process down here is about working together, it's about compromise, it's about reaching results. Sometimes not perfect results, sometimes not results that work for everybody, but results that collectively work for the greater good. The greater good in this issue is truly keeping some of our homeowners in their homes. I did not love the initial Bill, but I felt that the initial Bill was a result of the process. The initial Bill was a result of give and take, of compromise, between the involved parties and compromise, between the chambers and between the Leaders. I'm faced now with an override for legislation which I initially supported, but in light of the fact that the Senate President has stated that he would not call this Motion for an override, and granted he has, you know, changed his opinion on various things. But my concern is that it is 09500154.doc 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 not enough for us to send a Motion to the Senate to die, for the Senate to send a Bill over to us that will not be entertained, and for us to come home empty-handed. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is not right. This is not how to govern, this is wrong. We are failing ourselves and our duties. We are failing the people that we have been sent down here to represent. I can't tell you with any logical certainty that I know what the right answer is here and I know what the right vote is here. Hours were spent yesterday in what I thought were sincere and productive conversations about the importance of making sure that something is done. A couple months ago we sent legislation to the Governor's Office, this original Bill, that legislation was the stroke of a pen away from becoming law of the land. Due to political machinations and the process that can sometimes derail many things down here, tens of thousands of homeowners are faced with the prospect now of not greater relief, but with the prospect of no relief. A procedure, I trust of all you know, that if both chambers don't act in unison the underlying Bill dies. If the underlying Bill dies our homeowners are faced not just with another skyrocketing reassessment, but without any of the relief they've had for the last three (3) years let alone greater relief. Folks, this is not a partisan issue, this is not a theoretical issue, this is a real life issue that will decide whether people and families that we represent can stay in their homes going forward. Is it a perfect solution? No it's not. I've advocated and others have advocated that we really need to fix the underlying 09500154.doc 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 solution. It is not fair to ourselves it is not fair to our constituents for us to go through a triennial stress test of determining whether or not we can re-extend this legislation. I'd like to see legislation that doesn't go into perpetuity candidly, because I think that will increase the pressure on getting something fixed at the end of the day. But first and foremost and I apologize for going on longer than I intended to, but Ladies and Gentlemen, we need to figure out what we can do so we come home and we can have a piece of legislation that is signed into law. It is not enough for us to say that we passed something, and for the Senate to say that they passed something, but I have to go look homeowners in the eyes and tell them that they get nothing. It's not right, it's not how we are supposed to be doing our job down here, it's not what we got sent for down here. We need to make sure that we achieve a result at the end of the day. There are question about the propriety of the Governor's Veto, I do not believe that he had the authority to Veto the Bill in the way that he did. If I was tempted to override the Veto I would probably do it more on procedural grounds more than anything else. But I will submit to you, Ladies and Gentlemen, that we need to keep our eye on the bigger picture here, and we can not let this Bill meet the fate that numerous ethics Bills have meet in the past, and numerous other Bills have meet in the past, where both chambers go home patting themselves on the back saying that they did something, knowing damn well that at the end of the day the voters got nothing. Ladies and Gentlemen, 09500154.doc 60  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 think carefully about what you're going to do here. I wish I knew what the answer was that would force the parties to the table. This is an issue that deserves resolution, it's an issue that deserves to have the decision makers locked into a room and not having them come out until a decision is made. This is going to be a tragic situation, indeed, if we do not receive and not realize at the end of the day an outcome that has a meaningful result for our homeowners. It's a tricky vote, folks, you have people that supported the underlying legislation that are going to be opposed to the override. You had people that were opposed to the original legislation that are going to support the override. It tells you that there's something wrong with the process, there's something wrong when we take a Kafkaesque labyrinth of a road to get to nowhere. That being said, I'll defer to the other people that I'm sure want to speak on this issue. Thank you for hearing me out."

"The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black, for what reason do you rise?"

"State you inquiry."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Currie, you want to explain to him what happened to your previous Motion?" 09500154.doc 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"That is on the Calendar, Representative. The reason I filed the second Motion, the Motion to override is because a 'noes' count in the Senate suggests that there is not enough support in that chamber to accept the Governor's changes. I didn't want the issue of property tax relief to die so I thought our better course was to override the Governor and have 664 in its original form on the books."

"I was actually looking for the 'aye' votes, not the 'no' votes so, I did misspeak."

"Thank you, Representative."

"This is the Motion I am pursuing."

"I am not… I'm calling the Motion to override, not the Motion to accept."

"There is only one Motion."

"No."

"Clerk… Mr. Clerk, could you tell me what's the status of this Bill… I should say Representative Mathias's Motion? Representative Black, I'm going to refer this to the parliamentarian. It's getting more and more complicated."

"Yeah, there's only one set of noes here."

"Representative, the parliamentarian has ruled earlier that Representative Mathias's Motion was out of order."

"Representative, the Parliamentarian has ruled and the Chair is accepting the ruling of the parliamentarian. If you care to make another Motion…"

"The parliamentarian…"

Speaker Turner: "The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Fritchey."

"Speak… Speaker, inquiry of the Chair. Procedurally I… I… I understand the Gentleman's Motion. What I don't understand and I would be willing to wager that a number of folks in this chamber wouldn't understand is, what are the ramifications should that Motion prevail or fail? Should the Motion prevail, he is simply saying that a Motion could be entertained but not that a Motion shall be entertained. And I'm in no way trying to derail it, I may in fact agree with it. And that's what I'm trying to figure out, is if the parliamentarian could clarify the ramifications of the Gentleman's inquiry being sustained or defeated?"

"I… I understand and I guess that's what I'm trying to get at. From your… from your understanding and the Gentleman from Vermilion as well, does that in fact 09500154.doc 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 essential render his Motion moot for ev… even if there's a determination that another Motion could be filed that would not be… that would necessitate that that other Motion be heard? You know, I found it hard to believe that we could take an issue this convoluted and make it more complicated, but I think we're succeeding in doing so."

"I… I had looked at a tangent… tangential issue to this which was, if a Motion for a override were to be put and fail… I… my understanding is that you could… that the… you could actually have Postponed Consideration on that Motion to override and then proceed with a Motion to accept were that the choice of the Sponsor. So, I… I guess part of the inquiry here… I'm not trying to further… further complicate this, but I do want the Members to understand what they're voting on, on Representative Black's Motion. Part of the inquiry I would have then is, what would happen in the event that the… in the event that the Chair is sustained and the Motion to override were to proceed and not receive requisite votes, the Sponsor could… could take Postponed Consideration on that Motion and then proceed with a Motion to accept. Is that correct? I believe as long as there is one intervening piece of legislation entertained between the two (2)…" 09500154.doc 68  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

Speaker Turner: "That would be at the discretion of the Sponsor, you're correct, Representative."

"But it would be procedurally allowable that this would not be the only Motion that could be heard. If this Motion were not to get… if the Motion were not to get… if the vote on the Motion to override were not accepted into the record, a Motion to accept could then be later brought by the Sponsor if she so chose?"

"It would be allowable. The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black."

Speaker Turner: "The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Molaro, for what reason do you rise?"

"Well, thank… thank you. I guess it's a parliamentarian question. He's asked for an overruling of 09500154.doc 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 the Chair. So, are we going to go… is it your intention to go to a vote on his Motion to overrule the Chair?"

"That's my… that's my intention."

"All right, well I got to… I got to ask this then of Representative Black, if he's going to insist on this Motion. I mean… I understand we… you could interpret anything twenty (20) different ways, we know that. Right? Sure seems to me that when you read it, it just talks about the other person filing a Motion to Veto or accept maybe one of three (3) ways. And it makes common sense, maybe one of these three (3) ways and only there three (3) ways. It seems to make sense. And in all the time that you or I have been here I've really never heard whether it be the Senate or the House that someone other than the Sponsor… you know unless the Sponsor's ill or something, is going to be out there filing Motions to accept or Veto. Otherwise, any Member at any time if they feel, could file all these Motions, and if you are successful in your… we would have to hear thousands and thousands of Motions of any Member going out there overriding or accepting Vetoes and they're not the Sponsor of the Bill. One of the biggest things that I always thought was important in this House, when you guys ran it or we ran it, whatever it may be, that the Sponsor controls his Bill. I always thought that was like a… not only a written rule but a rule that we should always follow. So, I don't see why, or how you can interpret this any other way. And I guess this goes to if you're going to insist on calling the Motion to override, it would give us a reason to do it. I don't understand how we can stand 09500154.doc 70  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 here and say because we go along with your Motion then it would be that anybody at any time can file any kind of Motion and demand to be heard… 'cause a Motion in writing always is in order if we go to that Order of Business, that a person who isn't the Sponsor could override Vetoes and accept Vetoes. And I, for one, certainly don't… don't want to go down that path that in the future we're there. So, I think it's impor… important in the rule that you can't do it. Not only shouldn't we hear it, we shouldn't even accept it because you're not the Sponsor. Otherwise, you're going to have a hundred and eighteen (118) Members filing Motions to override Vetoes and accept Vetoes on Bills that they weren't even the Sponsor of. So, if we do get to that order, Mr… Mr. Speaker, I would hope that we would vote with the Chair. Thank you."

"Representative Black, do you wish to proceed with your Motion to overrule the Chair?"

"The question before the Body now is, 'Shall the ruling of the Chair be sustained?' You should vote 'aye' if you agree with the Chair. You should vote 'no' if you don't. The question is now open. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record, 64 'ayes', 47 'noes', 0 'presents'. And the Chair is sustained. The Gentleman form Vermilion, Representative Black."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Joyce, for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise on the underlying Motion. Ladies and Gentleman, I appreciate Representative Osterman and rest… Representative Fritchey's concerns, but I think we need to look at the underlying Bill. The underlying Bill was in fact a compromise that your side of the aisle, our side of the aisle and both sides of the aisle and the Illinois Senate participated in that compromise. There were a 100 votes… votes on August 10, for this Bill here in this chamber. There was 57 votes in the Senate for the underlying Bill. About three (3) or four (4) months ago the Governor decided that he wanted to have us in on a meeting on this issue. We had a meeting, it was on a Thursday afternoon. It was on a Thursday afternoon after we had adjourned for the weekend. Many of us, over thirty (30) as I recall, stuck around for three (3) or four (4) hours before going back to our districts, our families. And at that meeting the Governor said, 'We're not ready to proceed.' He didn't like that fact that the only people that were there were Members that were interested in it and the Chief Sponsor in the House and the Chief Sponsor in the Senate, people that had been working on this Bill for fourteen (14) months. And we walked out of the meeting and he said, 'We'll get together again', and that's the last time we heard from the Governor on this 09500154.doc 73  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 issue until September 20, when he issued his Amendatory Veto. Was it because he was so concerned? If he was so concerned, he had fourteen (14) months to work with us on this issue. No Bill that comes out of the Illinois General Assembly that has an impact on the lives of the people in the State of Illinois is perfect. But this was a compromise that a lot of people in both chambers, on both sides of the aisle, outside interests, worked on. And this is a property tax relief Bill. Now, we can go and vote to override the Governor's Veto and send it over to the Senate, and we're not sure what's going to happen, that's true. But to accept the Governor's Veto would be a gross mis-justice to every Member of this Body, so the work that every Member of this Body has put in on this issue. So a hundred (100) of us could vote 'yes' and this was an acceptable Bill on August 10. I would hope that a hundred (100) of us will think it's an acceptable property relief package… property tax relief package for our constituents today on October 3. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Winters for what reason do you rise?"

"You and I know there's no guarantee that if they were Senators, that it's going to be 'yes' or 'no' on this vote. So, it's still a question mark in that regards."

"I don't know what's on your computer, but the Motion is properly before this Body at this time."

"The Journals… the Journals will be accurate as we continue to proceed. I cannot speak about what's on the computer, what was put on there a month ago. It is properly before this Body at this time and with that…"

"And you're joined by?"

"So, the debate Calendar will be… I mean the debate switch will be on. Members will be timed as we were timing Members earlier…"

"And we will go with unlimited debate. Does that go with the computer? Unlimited debate I don't…"

Speaker Turner: "I understand. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lang, for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to the underlying Motion. Ladies and Gentlemen, the changes in the law affect my district pretty substantially. I was the original Chief Sponsor of the 7 percent Bill. It's worked pretty well for the three (3) years it's been in play. And I was a strong proponent of moving it forward again. I was involved in the negotiations regarding moving the exemptions up or down, what we call the 'cap on the cap.' And I would've liked to have seen a higher cap. In fact, I think the changes the Governor made are changes that we should've considered as a Legislative Body. However, having said that, we have to talk about facts and reality. The first fact in reality is that, if we did accept this Amendatory Veto we'd be violating the Constitution of the State of Illinois. The Governor does not have the power to do what he's tried to do in this case. He's taken legislation that we've written… in fact over a long period of time written, with compromise and give and take, a completely rewritten it. He took a temporary exemption and made it permanent. He changed the numbers on the caps and made them permanent, and I just don't think he can do that. And I know you don't think he can do that, regardless of where you stand on the higher numbers. Having said that, I would prefer the higher numbers and frankly, if the 09500154.doc 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 Majority Leader today would be presenting her Motion to accept the Amendatory Veto I would, although it's unconstitutional, reluctantly vote for it. I would vote for it because my citizens must have the relief that these Bills that we've been working on in this issue proposed to provide. And so, I wish the Majority Leader had done that to give us the opportunity. But she has not done that. And we're in a situation today where those of us who have constituents who have been badly hurt by dramatically increased property assessment increases, must do something. We must accomplish something. And you've heard that there is not going to be a Motion to accept the Amendatory Veto. If there is no Motion to accept the Amendatory Veto and there is no other legislation to come before us to help our constituents that area aggrieved by these dramatic increases and assessments, this is the only game in town. So, I intend to vote for this Bill today, this override Motion, not because I support every word of it, not because I think it's the best we can do, but because it's all we can do today. This is all that will be before us today. And for my colleagues on the north side of Chicago and the northern suburbs who believe strongly we should have a higher number, I agree with you. I agree with you. But we are not going to get that opportunity, that's simply where we are today. And so we can vote to stop this Motion in which case we'll be telling our constituents that perhaps you will get no tax relief if that's what we choose to do, because we're going to try to do it just our way, or no other way then I think we will be damaging our 09500154.doc 77  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 constituents. I think we will make it more difficult for our constituents to get this relief. And so I reluctantly support the Majority Leader's Motion. I wish we had done this a different way and I hope that no matter how this vote turns out these negotiations will continue. I can tell you for my constituents we don't want to go home without some kind of tax relief. This Bill will provide some tax relief, not as much as they deserve, not as much we seek, not as much as they want, but a 'no' vote on this leaves us floating with very little opportunity to provide the… any kind of property tax relief to those who so dramatically deserve it. I would recommend 'aye' votes."

Speaker Turner: "The Lady from Cook, Representative Feigenholtz, for what reason do you rise?"

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"She indicates she will."

"There's been a lot of discussion today about the merits of the override. I'm a little confused, I know Representative Black, who's very excited about the division series as he should be, asked about Representative Mathias's Motion. There are two (2) Motions that the Sponsor filed. Is that correct?"

"That is correct."

"So, you filed the Motion to override and a Motion to accept?"

"That is correct."

"You chose to call the Motion to override first. My question to you is, if that Motion fails do you intend to call the other Motion to accept?" 09500154.doc 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"Representative, I intend this Motion to succeed because from the perspective of this chamber this may be the last and only game in town. If I'm wrong, if we didn't count right and in fact there are votes in the Senate to accept the Governor's language and they send a Bill like that our way, we will have every opportunity to consider it. But I don't think that's going to happen, and I think for us to walk away from this Veto Session with no relief for our homeowners, for our seniors for our disabled veterans would be irresponsible. I think for us, this may be the last and only game in town, and that is why I strongly urge support for the Motion to override. If I'm wrong we'll have another opportunity, but I fear there will be no other opportunity."

"Thank you."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Krause, for what reason do you rise?"

"She indicates she will."

"I did not speak to the President of the Senate but various people talking to individual Members of the Senate have come to the conclusion and it's a pretty credible conclusion that there are not the right number of votes to 09500154.doc 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 accept what the Governor has done, either on a Motion on this Bill or as a new piece of legislation."

"I… no… and… no, no, no, no and I… I'm not even vouching that they would override, what I'm saying is that I do not think that there are a sufficient number of votes in the Senate to support a Motion to accept the Governor's Amendment. I would hope that the Senate, if we send them this override… if I'm right that there aren't enough votes to accept would recognize that if they wanted to do anything for the folks back home, then they had better join us in the override."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Mulligan, for what reason do you rise?"

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Coulson, for what reason do you rise?"

Speaker Turner: "The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Molaro, for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you. I just want to make a couple of quick points. First of all, the previous three (3) speakers, Ladies from the Cook County area, there's no way you could disagree with anything they said, because what they said is actually pretty factual. The problem however, that we have is… I'm looking at this Bill and it's House Bill 664, and if anybody from the Governor's Office is listening I don't want them to say, you know, I hear… is Molaro going to say anything bad about the Governor, cause I'm not, and I haven't and I won't, but I do have to point this out. When this Bill was called, 664, it got 100 votes in the House and 53 votes in the Senate. And the reason that happened is because there was sitting down of all the parties and there was a well-thought-out reasoned way to give much needed, much needed property tax relief to a certain section of this state. Many downstaters and many people like myself and in the Speaker's area, we're not going to 09500154.doc 85  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 be a participant of the 7 percent solution, 'cause our taxes don't go up that high. We don't have the gentrification that's going on or the skyrocketing values. But a lot of people in this Chamber, as a matter of fact, a hundred (100) of them, and fifty-three (53) in the Senate, said we're going to go along with our colleagues and give tax relief that is much needed to these areas. Now, it was well-thought-out and reasoned, so well-thought-out and so reasoned and so compromised that thrift… fifty-three (53) Senators voted for it. Now, for whatever reason, we have a political problem that's going on in this state, and because of that, we stood in caucus yesterday trying to figure out what Motion is the best way. We have Lou Lang getting up and saying I could be… be for both. That's how difficult this is. We're not talking about what the public policy of the State is, we already decided that. However, we have a big political problem going on and I'm not going to blame anybody who… whose in… whose fault that political problem. We don't have our budget done, we don't have our capital program, we haven't addressed gaming we haven’t addressed the RTA/CTA and it looks like we're not going to address property tax relief that that's going to be all of this big picture that's coming down the road. I may be a half full kind of guy. I believe that we are going to have tax relief in the next two or three weeks. I believe we are going to have a capital Bill in the next two or three weeks. I believe Julie Hamos's is going to have her Bill in the next two or three weeks, this is just one of those. However, we're forced to do something. It was almost like 09500154.doc 86  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 a coin flip. We pulled something out and this is a political problem, not a policy problem. I think the Governor's doing his job, President Jones is going to do his job, we have to do our job. I think that there's going to be cooler heads that prevail through everything; I think Hendon and Cullerton, all these people are going to get together and we are going to get this job done, Harry. I really feel we cannot leave without property tax relief. A hundred (100) of us here, fifty-three (53) in the Senate, it was unanimous, voted to have property tax relief. We will get it. I don't know what the best way to go is. I'll vote for anything anybody calls, but my point is, we got to follow some process. This is the process from a political standpoint that we're going to follow. I think we should, you know pass this, move forward to where we can sit down with Link and Jones, whoever the Governor want's to send, whoever Hulahan wants to send. They said last night Hulahans guy… they'll sit down and talk. I think we're going to get this thing done, but this is just the process. So, this is not a vote for or against anybody, this is just a way to get the ball rolling."

"The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black, for what reason do you rise?"

"She indicates she will."

"Six months (6) into the future. In Cook County as you know, already participates."

"So, that's the only county in the state to date that has chosen to do so, but t000his is available to any county, and a vote could happen within six months (6) of the effective date of the Bill."

"Yes."

"Is this the transition period that you're talking about?"

"That's only Cook County."

"Well, in fact, under this Bill those local officials have the authority, the ability to do the audit and I think 09500154.doc 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 it's up to us to try to put their feet to the fire and make sure they do."

"That is right."

"It depends on which part of Cook. The difficulty is that in Cook County we have three different (3) triads, and each of those is on a three (3)-year assessment cycle. So, even if there is a downturn in the housing market, that would not be reflected until the next time the assessment cycle happens."

"It is our hope that at the end of this Bill, the end of this three (3)-year period, three (3) years starting at different times for each of those triads in Cook, it is hoped that the housing market will have shown some cooling off, and that we may not have to engage in this kind of dif treatment in the future. We don't know that, that will happen, but this Bill does sunset in three (3) years and we would then have the opportunity to reevaluate."

"State your inquiry." 09500154.doc 91  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"71."

"Correct."

"You know, everything's not working right now. The timer didn't cut you off, I mean, it's been a bad day."

Speaker Turner: "The Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino, for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you, Speaker. Just on a couple of points on… that have been raised and a lot of these have been… been brought forward, and I do rise in… in support of the override Motion. On procedure, yes, it was part of an agreement as most of the major Bills of this Session were all part of the same agreement which happened to fall apart. But the reality is, months have been spent trying to fix a system which is creating a great problem within the County of Cook. And I think the negotiated form which has come out is probably as good as it was going to get because it stepped things down to let the markets take over how property would be assessed. If you want to figure out where the Mason-Dixon line of this whole Bill is, take a look at the little town of Steger. Steger is divided down the middle between Will County and Cook County. The college district, the school districts are all… and the 09500154.doc 92  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 high school district are all right there. On one side of the street properties are assessed at 16 percent and will have, if the Governor's side goes through, a forty thousand dollar ($40,000) level permanently, because you're not going to drop that. On the other side of the street in Will County, the fastest growing county in the country, you have the same house which is assessed at 33 percent of value and has a five thousand dollar ($5,000) exemption forever. That's the Mason-Dixon line folks, and somebody is going to ask, why me, when the same three-bedroom ranch on the other side of the street is going to get a forty thousand dollar ($40,000) exemption, am I going to have five (5)? That's the reason that it has to be restructured as far as classification and phased out. And that's just one town of a growth area in the suburban… in the suburban areas that match up with Cook on a very dysfunctional classification system. The Bill, as it was negotiated, was not great. It's a zero-sum game shift. Somebody loses, somebody wins, but it was designed to step this down over three (3) years. Mr. Osterman did a great job for fourteen (14) months and in this dysfunctional Legislature that we’ve had this year, a decent agreement fell apart. Now I don't know how many of you are willing to support another Bill that locks in forty thousand dollar ($40,000) exemption level forever when your people will never have the hope of seeing that, but they're going to ask. And the reason they won't see it is simple, we in the downstate areas, don't have the available wealth or the large business that can actually take that shift. So, trying to 09500154.doc 93  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 put a percent in any other county would break us, our police, our fire, or schools. But somebody's going to ask and they're going to ask you why. So, the system needs to be fixed. They should be given the opportunity to do that and although I don't like the 7 percent solution, I never have liked that Bill on its policy side. It's a step to give them some relief and give them some time to bring their classifications in line. The Veto override Bill, I'm supporting. The other Bills coming which make that cliff permanent, I do not see passing this House. I could not see someone who does not live in that region supporting…"

"Bring your remarks to a close."

"I think you got the point. You know this whole Session… Ron White is a… a great comedian and he… he coined the phrase 'you can't fix stupid' and in the course of that, his meaning was the same. I think and it applies to this whole Session, that some actions defy explanation, justification, or excuse. Our Leadership has a lot of problems that they need to fix. This was part of a major deal that should not have been broke and it was and I'd ask for support of the override."

Speaker Turner: "The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Mathias, for what reason do you rise?"

"Indicates she will."

"I think the point is to say they still are alive and living at their old address. So, I don't think anybody intended to think that maybe they would be reducing in age year by year. But the question is whether that residence, which is where the exemption turns up, is in fact lived in by someone who qualifies by age as a senior."

"Well, I think in my county we have to reapply every year for the general homestead exemption, as well." 09500154.doc 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"You mean the Governor's Amendment… amendatory change?"

"Well, it depends on which… which property owner… which homeowner you are. There's no question the Governor's amendatory changes gave greater relief to owners of higher end homes, but remembering that property taxes are a zero sum game, renters, seniors on the freeze, and businesses help to pick up the slack. So, it's… it's a… which way do you want to go? Yeah, some people got more relief."

"Yes."

"I thought that the likelihood that we would succeed in providing property tax relief at whatever level would…"

"Bring your remarks to a close."

"The Gentleman from Crawford, Representative Eddy, for what reason do you rise?"

"Indicates she will."

"Well, they would find that they were looking at very significantly higher property tax bills."

"That is correct."

"For any county in the state, yes."

"No, that would not be affected."

"Right."

"Absolutely correct."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Scully for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the… to the Motion."

"To the Motion." 09500154.doc 99  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"First of all I want to thank Representative Mautino for the… his comments about the Village of Steer. He came up to me afterwards and said he didn't want to pick on the little Village of Steger, but I said no, the little Village of Steger very much appreciates somebody besides me sticking up for them and explaining the plight of a community that actually straddles the county line. Now, he referred to it… Mr. Mautino referred to it as the Mason- Dixon line where people can actually look across the street and see… they can look across Steger Road, the county line, and see a completely different tax structure for real estate; for the real estate taxes that they're paying, for the high school district, the village, the elementary school district, the community college district. The people on the north side of Steger Road are looking at a completely different structure than the people on the south side. Now, this is particularly a problem in Steger, but merely because of our ability to look across the street and stare it in the eyes. The rest of the state is confronting the exact same problem, it's just not that obvious to the rest of the state that we are using two (2) completely different taxing structures to fund one of the most important and one of the most expensive obligations, we have as a state, the obligation to properly fund our public education. Ladies and Gentlemen, when this Bill was originally proposed three (3) years ago, I stood before you and I said this is not even a BAND-AID a BAND-AID actually stops the bleeding a little bit. This is a shot of morphine, we're still sick. We still have a system that is 09500154.doc 100  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 inherently flawed. we're just going to kill the pain a little bit, give it a good shot of morphine. The real solution to the problem is not the underlying Bill, the real solution is not the Motion to override or the Motion to Concur. The real solution is dropping the dependency on real estate as the… real estate taxes as the fundamental way to fund public education. Mr. Mautino, I thank you as the Representative from the people of Steger, Illinois. I thank you for standing up for their issues. I ask you to listen carefully to his words and to understand that the only difference in Steger is their ability to physically see a different taxing structure when they look across the street. Thank you."

"Representative Currie to close."

"Thank you, Speaker and Members of the House. On the merits, some clearly prefer House Bill 664 the way we sent it to the Governor. On the merits there are many who prefer the Governor's Amendatory changes to House Bill 664, but that distinction I don't think makes a lot of difference to us in our vote this afternoon. We are at the eleventh hour. We're at the final moment when we can consider House Bill 664 and we're close to the time when, if the property tax bills don't go out, schools and local governments will have to borrow significant sums of money. We believe that there is not support in the chamber across the rotunda to accept the Governor's Amendatory changes. If I'm wrong they'll send us something, it'll be a whole new ball game. But if I'm right… if I am right, then this is the eleventh hour and this is the only game in town. If 09500154.doc 101  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 you want to do anything to provide your constituents statewide, as well as in Cook County, with property tax relief, and there is no question there is substantial property tax relief in this Bill. The only vote today is a 'yes' vote on the Motion to override. I would appreciate your support and so would your constituents back home."

"So, Representative Currie moves that House Bill 664 'do pass', notwithstanding the specific recommendations for change of the Governor. All those in favor should vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'no'. The voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 92 'ayes', 19 'noes', 0 'presents'. And this Motion, having received a Supermajority, House Bill 664 is hereby declared passed, notwithstanding the specific recommendations for change of the Governor. On Supplemental Calendar #1 we have House Bill 3866. Representative Hannig."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and Members of the House. There's two (2) Motions on the Supplemental Calendar today with respect to House Bill 3866. Motion #3 is a Motion to override certain line item Vetoes. I would ask for leave of the Body to suspend all applicable House Rules so that the Body may consider the override of these item Vetoes on a single Roll Call vote."

"The Sponsor requests leave of the Body to consider these item Vetoes on a single Roll Call vote. Is there leave? Leave is granted. Representative Hannig, on House Bill 3866." 09500154.doc 102  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and Members of the House. Yesterday, as we debated a number of item Vetoes and reduction Vetoes, inadvertently we failed to include a few number of Vetoes that we intended to override. And in fact, when I spoke yesterday, it was my understanding that those Vetoes were part of yesterday's override Motion. But we've since found that that was not the case and so what we're asking today is that there are line item Vetoes that deal with ISAC, DECO (sic-DCEO), Public Health, Criminal Justice and Board of Higher Ed that were inadvertently left out. And so at this point I would simply ask that we now override the Governor's Vetoes, his line item Vetoes for those articles."

"The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black, for what reason do you rise?"

"State you inquiry."

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, is there any sense of urgency that we do this now or that we… you not take it to committee and we vote on it tomorrow? I… I was just… just in the last thirty (30) seconds been given a copy of this." 09500154.doc 103  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"Representative, in all honesty, I believed that these Motions were in the debate that we had yesterday. And I presented yesterday's Motions with the understanding that these items were part of that debate. And because of an oversight in… in the filing of the Motion, we simply omitted those. So, all I'm suggesting today is that we procedurally do what we believed that we had done yesterday which is to override the Governor's Veto on… on a… on these items. These are the line item Vetoes and then we'll go to the reduction Vetoes next. So, we just need to correct an error so that what we believe that we did yesterday is really what we did."

"Yes, I actually believed that they were part of the Motion."

"I spoke to some of these items and they were inadvertently and honestly left out."

"Yes, that's correct. That's actually in the… in the next item, but that's correct."

"Yes."

"Thank you Representative."

"Seeing no further questions, the question is, 'Shall the line items… The Gentleman from Madison, Representative Hoffman, for what reason do you rise?"

"Yes, inquiry of the Chair."

"State your inquiry."

"Yes, a question of the parliamentarian. It's my understanding that the constitution is very clear that within fifteen days (15) of the date of enrollment that has to be acted on in this House. This was enrolled, my understanding on September 17, maybe my calculations are incorrect, but it's my understanding that the date ran yesterday. Therefore, if it was not acted upon yesterday, then these line item Vetoes would actually stand and would have the act of law. I would ask that the parliamentarian rule and I would inquire as to whether those fifteen (15) days had elapsed, number one, because I believe that had and they had to be voted on yesterday, that this not timely and this Motion is therefore not timely under our constitution."

"Mr. Hoffman, the parliamentarian." 09500154.doc 105  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"Then for the record, I would just raise the constitutional question, 'cause it is my belief that based on the constitution it is clear that this Motion is not timely and therefore it is beyond the constitutional mandate of fifteen (15) days and the line item vetems… Vetoes that we are hereby voting on actually are sustained. This is not timely and therefore they will be… they will stand."

"So, the question is, 'Shall all… 'Shall the line items contained in Motion #3 pass, notwithstanding the item of Veto of the Governor?' All those in favor should vote 'aye'; all those opposed they vote 'no'. And the voting is open. This Motion requires 71 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Durkin? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 104 voting 'aye', 3 voting 'no', 4 voting 'present'. And, this Motion, having received the Supermajority, the relevant line items are hereby declared passed, notwithstanding the item Vetoes of the… notwithstanding the item Vetoes of the Governor. On Supplemental Calendar there appears… Representative Hannig… Representative 09500154.doc 106  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 Hannig, just one minute. The Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Schock, for what reason do you rise?"

"The record will so reflect. Representative Hannig on Motion…"

"Yes, thank you…thank you, Mr. Speaker, and Members of the House. Motion 4 on the Supplemental Calendar is a Motion to restore certain line item… items reduced by the Governor. I would ask for leave of the Body to suspend all applicable Home Rules so that the Body may consider these item reductions on a single Roll Call vote."

"The Sponsor requests leave of the Body to consider those item reductions on a single Roll Call vote. Is there leave? Leave is granted. Representative Hoffman, the Gentleman from Madison."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Inquiry of the parliamentarian regarding the timing of Motion #4 to restore the reduction Vetoes to House Bill 3866. I would raise a similar objection that I raised for Motion #3 and ask the parliamentarian to please rule on whether or not the constitutional mandate of acting on these reduction Vetoes within fifteen (15) days after enrolling is being met, number one. And I believe the fifteen (15) days has passed since this was enrolled on September 17, and these reduction Vetoes had to constitutionally be heard by yesterday, otherwise they will stand. I would inquire of the parliamentarian to rule regarding my inquiry." 09500154.doc 107  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007

"The parliamentarian has stated before and… that he will not rule on constitutional issues regarding this particular Motion. It was the same ruling that he made on Motion #3."

"And I would just reiterate my same objections."

"It will be so recorded. So, the question is, 'Shall the line items contained in Motion 4… the Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black, for what reason do you rise?"

"Representative Hannig on Motion #4."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the Assembly. This reflects reduction Vetoes that we believed were part of yesterday's Motion. I spoke to some of those… particularly those that dealt with ISAC and… and our state universities and so we believed that they were in yesterday's Motion. They were inadvertently omitted. At this time I would simply ask that we move to override the Governor's Veto. And I'd ask for your 'yes' vote."

"So, the question is, 'Shall the line items contained in Motion #4 be restored, notwithstanding the 09500154.doc 108  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 items reductions of the Governor?' All those in favor should vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. And this Motion requires 60 votes. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question 103 voting 'aye', 4 voting 'no', 4 voting 'present'. And this Motion, having received the Constitutional Majority and the relevant line items, are hereby declared restored notwithstanding the item reductions of the Governor. On page 14 of the Calendar, we have House Bill 1124, Representative Molaro. Representative Molaro. Representative Molaro on House Bill 1124."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm recalling this Motion. Last time I called it the microphone wasn't working properly, because I don't think everybody heard what I had to say or explain. And the way I'll explain it is to say that it's a great Bill. We've talked about this many, many times. I don't want to reiterate this, but obvi… obviously, all it'll do is allow what we're doing today and mostly all the state to continue to allow these bowling leagues and these dart leagues that have been around for a hundred (100) years to continue on. It has nothing to do with anything else but that. And I'd ask for an 'aye' vote and I'll answer any questions."

Speaker Turner: "Seeing no questions, Representative Molaro moves that House Bill 1124 'do pass' notwithstanding… The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Molaro."

"So we're clear, this is just a renewed Motion that I made earlier. It's not a Motion to reconsider. But I do 09500154.doc 109  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 want to thank Senator Peterson and Senator Raoul probably came here to help me pass this. I really appreciate it and to be quite honest with you, I haven't really talked to the Governor, but I… I really think he knows that he's probably for this Bill now. So, those of you who were with the Governor I'm sure, now that he read this over he's going to be for it…"

"Representative Molaro moves that House Bill 1124 'do pass' notwithstanding the Veto of the Governor. All those in favor should vote 'aye'; all those opposed vote 'no'. The voting is now open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Dunn? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 71 voting 'aye'. 40 voting 'no', 0 'presents'. And this Motion, having received the Supermajority House Bill 1124 is hereby declared passed, notwithstanding the Veto of the Governor. Mr. Clerk, could you read the Committee Schedule?"

Speaker Turner: "The Gentleman from Lee, Representative Mitchell, for what reason do you rise?" Mitchell, J.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker on the previous Bill I'd like the record to reflect that I meant to vote 'yes'."

"The record will so reflect. Mr. Clerk, Agreed Resolutions."

"Representative Currie moves that we adopt the Agreed Resolutions. All those in favor say 'aye'; all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the Agreed Resolutions are adopted. Representative Bradley, the Gentleman from Williamson, for what reason do you rise?" Bradley, J.: "I move for the suspension of the posting requirements on House Resolution 666, House Resolution 725, Senate Bill 478 Amendment 3, House Bill 4144, House Joint Resolution 77, House Joint Resolution 78, Senate Bill 120, House Bill 4148, House Bill 4149 and Senate Bill 934."

Speaker Turner: "The Gentleman asks leave to suspend the posting requirements on the previous mentioned Bill. All those in favor say 'aye'; all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the posting requirements are suspended for those legislation… those Bills. The Gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Black, for what reason do you rise?"

"State you inquiry."

"You want to check down on two (2) on your way out."

"Okay."

"The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Rose, for what reason do you rise?"

Speaker Turner: "Your objection will be noted. Seeing no further questions, Representative Currie moves that the House stands adjourned until Thursday October 4, at 9:30 a.m. Thursday, October 4, at 9:30 a.m. All those in favor say 'aye'; all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion if the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the House stands 09500154.doc 112  STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 154th Legislative Day 10/3/2007 adjourned until Thursday, 9:30, allowing perfunctory time for the Clerk, 'til Thursday 9:30… at 9:30 a.m."