"The House shall come to order. The Members shall be in their chairs. We ask the Members to turn off laptop computers, cell phones, and pagers. And we ask our guests in the gallery to rise and join us in the invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance. We shall be led in prayer today by Wayne Padget, the assistant doorkeeper."
"Let us pray. Dear heavenly Father, we come before You today honoring Your life and accomplishments. We pray that You would look over these Representatives and their families. We ask that You look over the men and women of our Armed Services. And we pray that they all come home safely. We also pray that during these hard times and negotiations that everyone can come together on one common ground, and help all the people of this great state. These things we ask in Your Son's name, amen."
"We shall be led in the Pledge of Allegiance by Representative Harris." Harris – et al: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"Roll Call for Attendance. Representative Currie."
"Thank you, Speaker. Please let the record show that Representative May is excused today."
"Mr. Bost."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let the record reflect that Representative Bassi, Black, Fortner, Kosel, Lindner, Osmond, Poe, and Stephens are excused today." 09500211.doc 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008
"Mr. Clerk, take the record. There being 107… there being 107 Members responding to the Attendance Roll Call, there is a quorum present. Mr. Clerk."
Clerk Mahoney: "Committee Reports. Representative Barbara Flynn Currie, Chairperson from the Committee on Rules, to which the following legislative measures and/or Joint Action Motion were referred, action taken on January 17, 2008, reported the same back with the following recommendation/s: 'approved for floor consideration' referred to the Order of Second Reading is Senate Bill 1409. Representative Barbara Flynn Currie, Chairperson from the Committee on Rules, to which the following legislative measures and/or Joint Action Motion were referred, action taken on January 17, 2008, reported the same back with the following recommendation/s: 'approved for floor consideration' is Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1409. Referred to the House Committee on Rules is House Resolution 900, House Resolution 909, House Resolution 911, House Joint Resolution 86. Agreed Resolutions. House Resolution 897, offered by Representative Colvin. House Resolution 898, offered by Representative Bradley, J. House Resolution 899, offered by Representative Lyons. House Resolution 901, offered by Representative Sacia. House Resolution 902, offered by Representative Bellock. House Resolution 903, offered by Representative Howard. House Resolution 904, offered by Representative Meyer. House Resolution 905, offered by Representative Meyer. House Resolution 906, offered by Representative McGuire. House Resolution 907, offered by Representative Yarbrough. 09500211.doc 2 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 House Resolution 908, offered by Representative Madigan. House Resolution 912, offered by Representative Ryg. House Resolution 913, offered by Representative Crespo and House Resolution 914, offered by Representative Dunkin."
"Representatives Currie moves for the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. Those in favor say 'aye'; those apposed say 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Agreed Resolutions are adopted. Mr. Brady… Mr. Brady, for the purpose of an announcement."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Republicans would request that we caucus immediately in Room 118. Republican Caucus in Room 118."
Speaker Madigan: "All right. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Republicans will go to caucus in Room 118. The Democrats will go to caucus in Room 114. Again, caucuses immediately. If all would go to caucus immediately. Thank you. On page 2 of the Calendar, on the Order of Amendatory Vetoes, there appears House Bill 656. Representative Hamos. Representative Hamos."
"Thank you. Speaker, I think I'm moving to accept the Governor's Amendatory Veto on House Bill 656. And should I spend a minute explaining?"
"I think we would all appreciate that."
"Okay. Thank you. Ladies and Gentlemen, as you know, we are back today after having passed this Bill successfully last week, with a lot of hard work and we appreciate very much your support for this. This is…this is… the underlying Bill here is still a very significant, comprehensive long-term funding solution for the transit 09500211.doc 3 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 system, especially in the regional transit area of the RTA region, as well as a whole slew of reforms. That is still the underlying Bill. If we don't pass this Bill today with the Amendatory Veto, we will lose all the benefits of the underlying Bill, and we will be facing a shutdown, a very serious shutdown of the system in just a few short days. The Governor, as we all know now, minutes after we passed this Bill in the Senate, told us for the first time that he was introducing a new idea. It was an idea that we had never really considered in three (3) years of working together in a bipartisan way through the Mass Transit Committee, and that new idea that the Governor has now injected in the Amendatory Veto is to give free rides for seniors, regardless of need in the RTA region area and in the urbanized areas downstate which are about fourteen (14) different mass transit districts. And the free rides only apply to fixed-route services. So, it's a simple Bill on the face of it. That is what the Amendatory Veto does. As you will learn later on today, we do plan to call, with Representative Ryg's leadership, a trailer Bill that takes this issue and does put some containment mechanisms on it. But this Bill that we are voting for right now is the underlying reform package, funding package, along with free rides for seniors, the Governor's idea."
Speaker Madigan: "The Lady moves to accept the Governor's Amendatory Veto. The Chair recognizes Mr. Fritchey."
"Thank you, Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"The Sponsor yields." 09500211.doc 4 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008
"Representative, I… you… you have made a valiant effort to try to undo some of this silliness. To rehash, for the record, some things that we had discussed in caucus. It's your opinion that the trailer Bill would make the present situation a better one. Is that correct?"
"That's correct."
"The fact that we are here today shows that the Governor has little regard for the substance of what it is we send him or the process by which things are supposed to work down here. Do you have any indications whatsoever that Senator Jones would call the trailer Bill in the Senate or that the Governor would sign it and not choose to grandstand and AV the trailer Bill with some new unforeseen proposal that he's been sitting on for months?"
"We don't… we… we have no indication as to either one. What we are trying to do, quite honestly, Representative Fritchey, is to take the hand that’s been dealt us, and to make it better and to be responsible policymakers by putting some containment on a worthy program, creating some expansion for another worthy group of disabled and also putting some mechanisms to contain it. We are only in respond… we are responding to what the Governor has already done and not… and that’s the best we can do under the circumstances."
"You're absolutely right. I mean, we are trying to be responsible and I wish that that effort was continued throughout the rest of this building. To the Bill. Ladies and Gentlemen, over the last ten (10) years I've seen a lot of contentious issues in this building. I… I can say that 09500211.doc 5 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 I don't know that I've struggled with one as much as I have with this. I think it's shameful that we're here today. I think it's an embarrassment that we're here today. I think it's emblematic of everything that's gone wrong over the last year. This is not about turning horse manure into ponies, it's not about making lemons into lemonade; it's about playing politics with peoples lives and it's shameful. The process is broken here. There's a damn good reason why we are one (1) of only seven (7) states that have an Amendatory Veto provision, if it's going to be trampled like this. This is not an Amendatory Veto. It is another attempt by the Governor to unilaterally legislate and set policy in defiance and subversion of this Legislative Body. I am frustrated to no end that we're here. We were a signature away last week from having this matter passed into law as was determined to be in the best interest of the state by the Members of this chamber, by the Members of the Senate, by the public, by everybody involved who put all the time in. Representative Hamos, Representative Ryg deserve to be commended for the time and effort in negotiation that they put on to get this thing done. That's what leadership's about. Leadership is not about press conferences, leadership is not about press releases, it's not about playing gotcha with the public and gotcha with the Legislature. I want nothing more and I've made my intentions clear, I'd wanted nothing more than to vote 'no' on this. A 'no' vote is the principled vote; a 'no' vote is substantively the right vote; a 'no' vote would say that you're not going to put up with this stuff 09500211.doc 6 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 anymore. At the same time, I don't want to accept the responsibility for putting twenty-four hundred (2,400) employees out of work, for putting tens of thousands of people on the streets Monday morning should there be a shutdown. Against better judgment, against what I think is politically right, against what I think is procedurally right, against what I think is intellectually right, I'm going to support this so as not to make the transit riders innocent victims of the Governor's gamesmanship. But Ladies and Gentlemen, please realize this is a continuation of what's gone on. It's a continuation of what's happened with JCAR, it's a continuation of his attempts to unilaterally expand his policies in defiance of common sense, in defiance of the process, in defiance of the Illinois Constitution. Shame on the Governor for putting us in this position. Shame on him for playing politics with peoples' lives. Shame on him for bringing us back down here today. Shame on him for creating the anxiety among thousands of mass transit riders around the city, around the collar county region, and around the state. It's not how we run a state, it's not how we run State Government. We should not have been here. We do not have a dictator, we have a Governor. At some point he's going to understand that, at some point he's going to respect the process and the Members of this Body. Thank you."
"Mr. Miller."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"Sponsor yields." 09500211.doc 7 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008
"Yesterday in committee, and I just want to make sure that I'm on public record, I asked a question regarding the total cost of providing free transit service for our seniors. Julie, can you… Representative Hamos, can you reiterate what those costs could be?"
"Well, Ladies and Gentlemen, truthfully we don't really know. Last week when the Governor called us into his office after the Bill had passed, he said to us he thought it was fifteen million (15,000,000), by yesterday it was up to thirty million (30,000,000), with maybe twenty (20) of that being part of CTA's budget. So, we don't really know. We just don't know."
"And so… according to the… when I ask each of the service boards their response to it in terms of service, in terms of fare increase, METRA is the only service provider who had already stated they're going to have a fare increase and the other two (2) agencies, Pace and CTA, did not say whether they would have a fare increase. Is that…"
"Well, we do… we've always been very honest with everybody on this floor that there is a… what we call a fare box recovery ratio. That does require fare increases, modest ones over time to meet their increased revenues. Because it's 50/50 from fares and from other revenue sources. But it is possible that having to absorb twenty million dollars ($20,000,000) of new costs or missed revenues that the CTA would have to have a fare increase sooner than what they had thought. It's possible, we don't know that at this point." 09500211.doc 8 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008
"So, generally, the public should know that Metra's the only one that basically say we're going to have a fare increase, I believe in about a month or so. And the others, we don't know, but it's coming. So, this… even this has… there's no illusions about that. But also my understanding was that the fact that this free ridership will not be the cause of that fare increase. Is that a way… was that… am I accurate when I heard that?"
"Will the new… the new ridership from seniors, if that’s what you mean?"
"Yes."
"If they're riding for free instead of paying a half fare, as many of them currently do with a reduced fare card, means some lost revenues and they would have to somehow deal with the lost revenues. Now, let me say, Ladies and Gentlemen, the issue for me is not only what's on the table right now, twenty million (20,000,000), thirty million (30,000,000) for seniors… the issue for me is that I believe there are many other groups that will come before this General Assembly who will also want free rides on transit. Yesterday we had a three-hour hearing in the House Mass Transit Committee and we already saw and heard from a group of disabled riders and their advocates. This morning in caucus we heard about low-income children. We've read in the paper, what about veterans. I think that this is just the first step in what will be an ongoing debate in the General Assembly about who is the next worthy group who we should include in a free ride program. So, the costs that we are talking about today are almost 09500211.doc 9 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 insignificant compared to what I see down the road in just a few short years, when a whole bunch of other riders, equally worthy and equally important to us, also want to get a free ride."
"To the Bill. You know, I want to commend Representative Hamos on her tireless effort on trying to expand the pie, which I've said before, but also tried to make sure that we have a long-term funding solution to a crisis. And when somebody in this building characterizes it as manure and it characterizes her efforts as being in vain that's an insult not just to her, but it's also an insult to Representative Mathias on the other… other side of the aisle, who'd worked tirelessly to try to make sure that his region and area was fare funded or Representative Bassi, who worked hard for years, or Representative Soto, to make sure that the minority procurement issues where included in this bill or Representative Ryg, who's very passionate about paratransit. So to say that this Bill is manure is an insult to the entire process, an insult to everybody in this chamber who worked for three (3) years to make sure that our region of Southland Caucus here, make sure our region was just treated fairly, and that we need to des… have the rights of everyone else. And so, absolutely, Representative Fritchey's right. This issue has been ma… has gone into politics. Members on this side and the other side of the aisle who didn't vote for the Bill, there are reasons not to vote for this, but there are reasons to vote for this. It's reasons that everybody comes down here to fight for their constituents and their 09500211.doc 10 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 constituents are important to them. So regardless, if I don't like the Governor, regardless if you don't like the Governor, if regardless you think it's the Governor's responsibility are disingenuous and he runs by press release, you are not elected to like the Governor, you are not elected to like me. You are elected to like… to represent the constituents that you represent. Unfortunately, we've been put in this position by Leadership and that's unfortunate, but we have a responsibility to our constituents to do the right thing and support our efforts and to bring this Bill back to the Senate. They have a responsibility to support this Bill and let's move forward because the citizens of Illinois demand that of us. Support this Bill, vote 'yes'."
"Mr. Sacia."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill. Ladies and Gentlemen, I, like many others, struggled with this Bill throughout its process. Today, doorkeeper, Wayne Padget, had a prayer for us where he called us to come together on a common ground. I applaud him for that. Last week, I received a call from a gentleman in Warren, Illinois. I have the privilege of representing five (5) counties and in that five (5) counties we have more livestock than anywhere else in the state. That may or may not, to some of you, be something to be proud of, to me I'm very proud of it. But the gentleman's comment to me was extremely degrading and disingenuous. And basically, where he was going is we have a proposed nine thousand-cow dairy farm coming to northwest Illinois and this gentleman, went on to tell me that these 09500211.doc 11 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 people in northwest Illinois didn't really understand how to deal with these big issues, but he did because he moved there from Chicago five (5) years ago. I was quite insulted, to say the least, and the very same day a gentleman, everybody here knows only too well, Representative Black, faxed to me a copy of an editorial from Neil Steinberg in the Sun-Times. Mr. Steinberg writes, and I'm just going to take a small part of it, 'Chicago is the economic engine that drives Illinois, if not the entire Midwest, and the sooner the 'hicks in the hinterlands' understand that, the better.' I'm proudly one of those hicks from the hinterland. 'Beyond our own bickering Leaders, one major reason our public transit system is again poised to collapse, and as they say, the third time is the charm, is that downstate Legislators, envious and resentful of the city, see no connection between Chicago's economic future and their own and they can't imagine funding public transportation in Sodom-on- the-Lake without first extorting a big slice of blueberry pie for themselves in Porktropolis. Each one has a pet project: a new milking stool, a galvanized metal silo, whatever, they're demanding as ransom for bailing out Chicago transit and if it shuts down the city, well, so what. It's just a bunch of sinners and minorities anyway.' What a damn insult. And the good part… the thing that makes me feel good is, I listen to people like Representative Fritchey stand on this floor and point out what a political charade this is. There isn't anyone on the other side of the aisle that I wouldn't help with a 09500211.doc 12 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 Bill if I possibly could. And I know in my heart of hearts the vast majority of you would help me with a Bill. This is one that was a real tough struggle for me to get through and I didn't need my nose rubbed in it. I think what is happening here, I was elected the same time the Governor was, I give him credit he came at a time and he inherited a five billion dollar ($5,000,000,000) debt but I've watched him take a seven billion dollar ($7,000,000,000) debt load and convert it to a twenty-two billion dollar ($22,000,000,000) debt load. And I ask myself how are my grandchildren ever going to pay for it all. This is a political football. No votes are going to be changed today. I'm well aware of that. There are 1.5 million (1,500,000) senior citizens in Illinois sixty-five (65) and over. A lot of them are going to affected, but a lot of them are in my district. They're driving old cars, they don't have mass transit. There's no benefit for them. I will help Chicago and the Chicago surrounding area any day of the week, but thank you Representative Fritchey, thank you Representative Miller, and thank you Representative Hamos, because I know how hard you have worked on this. But for those that feel it necessary, and I don't see them in this Body, to refer to us as the hicks from Hicksville that doesn't understand an economic engine, you damn sure better not say that with your mouth full 'cause we fed you."
"Mr. Eddy."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Inquiry of the Chair."
"State your inquiry." 09500211.doc 13 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008
"Under House Rule 78(c) it states that the Governor's specific recommendations for change on a Bill, under subsection(e) of Section 9, Article IV, of the Illinois Constitution, shall be limited to addressing the Governor's objections to portions of a Bill the general merit of which the Governor recognizes and shall not alter the fundamental purpose or legislative scheme of the Bill. In addition, House Rule 78(d) states that any Motion to accept the Governor's AV shall be assigned to Rules Committee and the Rules Committee shall examine the specific recommendations to make sure that the recommendations are compliant with the requirement that the changes do not alter the fundamental purpose of legislative scheme of the Bill. Now the Bill, because the Motion is now on the floor, obviously, the Rules Committee… before this entire Body does this mean that the Rules Committee has ruled that the Governor's recommendation to amend the Bill, to now grant free rides to seniors, is in compliance with House Rule 78(c)?"
"Representative Eddy, on behalf of the Speaker in response to your inquiry, you are correct. The Rules Committee, by passing this out, has determined compliance with Rule 78."
"What is the specific merit or the logistic behind that? What logic was used or how… how did that… how did that determination…"
"Representative, as the parliamentarian, I can't speak on behalf of the Rules Committee." 09500211.doc 14 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008
"Okay. Thank you very much. Also, a question of the Chair regarding whether or not the Governor's changes to House Bill 656 would preempt Home Rule powers? And is House Bill 656 with the recommendations of the Governor to grant free rides to all seniors a denial and limitation of the powers of local mass transit districts under Article VII, Section 6(g) or (j) of the Illinois Constitution?"
"Representative Eddy, again on behalf of the Speaker in response to your inquiry, this legislation does not preempt Home Rule and so it… it is… neither of those provisions of the Constitution are applicable. The supreme…"
"Is there any element of the recommended changes that triggers the Constitutional Three-fifths-Majority requirement for a Bill that is a denial or limitation of any powers of Home Rules?"
"Representative, the Supreme Court has said that if you are going to preempt Home Rule you must do so explicitly and this Bill does not preempt Home Rule, so those provisions are not applicable."
"Appreciate very much the indulgence of the Chair and the responses to my inquiries. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."
"Mr. Bost."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd also like to thank the last two (2) hicks that spoke. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"Sponsor yields."
"Representative, in the Governor's Veto, is it not… can you read a list of those areas that will… the seniors will receive the free rides on what those… what those are?" 09500211.doc 15 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008
"Yes. Ladies and Gentlemen, what… what the Representative is asking about is that the way that the Amendatory Veto is drafted it applies first to the seniors who reside in the RTA region, so we know that that includes six (6) counties and those that ride a fixed route in the RTA region METRA, Pace, and CTA, and it applies to those who reside in what's called the participant in an urbanized area. And there seemingly are fourteen (14) urbanized areas that would be covered under the Governor's Amendatory Veto. Champaign-Urbana, Greater Peoria, Rock Island, Rockford, Springfield, Bloomington-Normal, Danville, Decatur, Pekin, River Valley Metro, South Beloit, St. Clair County, DeKalb, and Madison County. Some of these are mass transit districts and some are municipal-run transit, but that's who the fourteen (14) are that would be covered."
"Thank you, Representative. And Mr. Speaker to the Bill. So, the list that the Representative just read off, those Representatives that represent areas like Carbondale, as myself, Marion, other areas around southern Illinois that are not included in that. So what we are doing is, is we are taking a Bill that many of us didn't agree with and I… and I believe that, as downstaters, regardless of the article that was quoted awhile ago, probably shouldn't have agreed with because our title is Representatives. To truly represent our area, we should have had a problem with the Bill the way it was. But now, you know, if… if we don't vote to override or… if we don't vote to accept, then we dislike seniors. That's not true, because our seniors don't benefit. Our seniors just continue to be taxed, at a 09500211.doc 16 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 higher level, even though I… I say that, okay. They take their existing tax and is used to offset bills that you can't pay. And so then… then you're taking from us in that way and now all of a sudden you're going to tell our seniors that, but because you don't have designated routes in you mass transit district, you're not going to get to ride for free. So, let's just go ahead and throw you to the wind. Because what? You're hicks? Because your Legislators are holding out for milk stools and silos? You know, the problem I have is that we as downstaters should have stood together because there are certain key things that maybe needed to be dealt with before we move this Bill forward, so that those that live in the city and the surrounding areas could understand our needs and the concerns. Quite often, we have supported legislation, since I've been in this Body, that was a p… was pleasing to your people in your district and those people in the State of Illinois in the northern part of the state that actually chased jobs from my area. And now here once again, because we tried to voice our opinion, we're bad-mouthed in ridiculous articles around the state. Is it ridiculous to want my district to have decent roads? Is it ridiculous for my district, that has a tremendous university in Southern Illinois University, to get a tech center that would provide… we in a joint with Boeing and joint with General Motors to provide jobs opportunities to train the best and the brightest in automotive and aeronautics repair, to train them in… to train pilots, to also to train the best of the best technicians in these fields. Now, if 09500211.doc 17 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 that's a silo and a milking stool, sobeit. But the real problem we have here is, is once again we're taking a problem which is the Chicago Transit Authority, which obviously has had trouble operating, that's why you've come to, we, this Body to try to support it and bail it out, when possibly rates should have went up and some a few other things should have been handled that you could have handled this yourself. But no, no, you come to us and then of all things, the dear Governor of this state, in a move nothing more than a political move, pandering the senior because he feels that… that this might look bad upon him and might ruin his numbers. Oh wait, twenty-six (26). Yeah, okay. So, in a move says we'll let seniors ride for free which blows another thirty million dollar ($30,000,000) hole in the problem. When does this stop, people? Look around, think about what we're doing. If you're from downstate you should be embarrassed for voting for it anyway, if you vote for it. But if you're in the city, and in… and it is part of your economic engine, I understand that, but why in the world would you blow a hole in something you just fixed? Why? It doesn't make sense. Vote 'no'. Take it back to the table and work on it correctly. Of course, we haven't worked on a lot of things correctly around here in the last three (3) years."
"Mr. Osterman."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill. I stand in support of the Lady's Motion. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, all of us are frustrated with the process, all of us are frustrated with the action of the Governor. As a 09500211.doc 18 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 Representative from a district that uses public transportation, I will tell you that I did not get one phone call in support of the Governor's action, but I did get phone calls from people who understood why the Governor tried to do this. They saw right through it, though. I would assume that most of the people in our state saw right through this action. But let me just say this, this issue today before us is not about Governor Blagojevich and although we are all frustrated with this, this should have been dealt with a week ago, should have been dealt with a year ago. We have to focus on who we are trying to help today, and that's people in a certain part of our state that need and use public transportation. It should not be about the Governor. For those that are frustrated, I guarantee you that we will have another chance on another day to deal with that frustration, but the reality is that we are joined here today to focus on people that use and need public transportation every day, Illinoisans that need and use public transportation every day, Illinoisans that want to in the future use public transportation. On my drive down here I drove past an L stop in my community and on this cold, snowy, winter day I saw people from my community going there… going there, trying to make sure that they get to work on time, trying to make sure that they get to school on time. For over a year those people have gotten on that train or gotten on a bus and the future of public transportation in our state has been up in the air. They're going to come home tonight and we don't know what we're going to do. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, 09500211.doc 19 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 this… this vote today is about those people. We have to guarantee that our transportation system has a chance to become world class. We have to keep the wheels on the bus rolling, the trains working. There are people that rely on this every day, young and old alike. This isn't a bipartisan issue. I will say this once again to my downstate colleagues, as someone from Chicago I want a capital Bill for many reasons, but today the focus should be on the people that are looking to us for leadership, Illinois residents that are counting on us to act and support this legislation. So I join with my colleagues in asking all of you to put our differences with the Governor aside and let's focus on the people that are looking to us, those people that count on public transportation."
"Mr. Molaro."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know, let me… let me get two (2) things out of the way then I wanted to talk about the man from Jackson County to my right because everything you said I totally agree with and I want to try a different tact with some of our downstaters, but I got to do two (2) housecleaning things first. I want to thank the service boards and those people who came down here and went through about five (5) months of this torture, the Illinois Shuffle, the Illinois three-step, you know, four (4) steps forward, five (5) back, you know, that we normally do, especially the ones that actually came to these, came to all the meetings and actually didn't go to the press and say what a bunch of knuckleheads we've got down in Springfield. I do want to thank you people, men, lady, for 09500211.doc 20 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 showing up and putting up with the politics down here, because I think you know being on service boards how difficult it is to get sixty (60) people to almost agree on anything. So, I want to thank you for that. The other thing we never pointed out and… you know, we thank a lot of people, but we never did this and this is one point if you want to feel good about voting for this Bill. I really want to thank the unions, especially the CTA unions and what they did and what they gave up. When this Bill first came forward and we first talked about it, and Julie knows this, one of the things that the Speaker insisted on is that this Bill doesn't move forward and still there are pension reforms. When we first talked about reforms we thought that was going to be the poison pill of this Bill, that there's no way the unions would agree to these reforms. But they took their jackets off, they rolled up their sleeves, they called in help from CFL, and, AFL-CIO to get done what I think is historic in this state what is tantamount to a two-tiered system in the CTA pension. So the employees gave up a lot to get this done and their union should be commended for the work they gave. So, I want to thank them. Now, to what we're going to talk about the ja… the man from Jackson County. There's a rumor going around this chamber and in this building that one (1) of the things that a lot of Democrats wanted to do, my Leader, other Leaders, is just get past January 1 so we can pass this Bill with sixty (60) votes and to hell with capital, gaming and all of that. I don't believe that's true. I know a lot of people think I'm a little naive when it comes 09500211.doc 21 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 to that. Remember, we're going to lose a lot of money, federal matching dollars. What I did believe then and I believe now is that I didn't like the idea that we coupled capital to the doomsday at the CTA. Now, I certainly understand someone who's not from the CTA or RTA area to say, well, wait a minute, I understand what you're saying Molaro, I certainly see what the Speaker says. But I, for one, get very, very nervous when we pass an RTA Bill and there's no capital Bill. So, if I walked about four (4) feet and I represent an area that wasn't from the Chicago area, I certainly would be nervous, too. I was in the Minority for ten (10) years in the Senate. I'd be up there screaming exactly like they are. All I can tell you is this and I'll just speak for myself and I'll have this tacked. I don't know how anybody from Chicago area, when we have a capital Bill, which we will have shortly in the next couple of months, it'll have to be paid for some revenue stream. What revenue stream is fun? What revenue stream could anybody vote for and say is wonderful? Who likes taxes, GRT, gaming? Nobody likes all that stuff. Nobody's for it, but the point is we had to do this CTA/RTA Bill and anybody who came to the hearing, the RTA/CTA, Pace and all and METRA come up and say, it's a great start, but we need four, five, three, eight billion dollars in capital. Otherwise, you're throwing good money after bad. Now, all I can tell you is this, I will redouble every effort I can make. I'm asking every Chicagoan and everybody from the CTA-METRA area to do everything they can to talk to whoever they have to talk to to get the capital 09500211.doc 22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 Bill on the Governor's desk. I don't care if it's done with gaming. I don't care if it's a tax increase. I don't care if it's sweeps. I don't care what it is. But if we sit on our hands and don't get the capital Bill done two (2) things happen, not only do we lose six billion, seven billion dollars ($6,000,000,000-$7,000,000,000), but I, for one, would have to go to about 57 Members of downstate Members and say, you were right and I was wrong. We played a flimflam on you and I, for one, just don't want to see that happen. I'd ask anybody and I know if you're in an area you can't go home and vote for this, but at least keep the rhetoric down because I think we are going to have a capital Bill. It's too bad it wasn't linked, it just wasn't in the cards, but I, for one, will work very, very hard to make sure that we get a capital Bill very, very shortly. Thank you."
"Jerry Mitchell." Mitchell, J.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"Sponsor yields." Mitchell, J.: "Representative Hamos, I… I'm just curious. I… I know you're not real happy with this Veto, I'm… I'm sorry, should be a Veto. You're not real happy with this Amendment that the Governor put on here. Why didn't we go for an override and then do this correctly, rather than to concur to something that many of the speakers on your side of the aisle have indicated they're not happy with either?"
"I'm… I'm just flabbergasted by that question to tell you the truth. We have never in three (3) Roll Calls and 09500211.doc 23 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 today will be the fourth one, have had more than a handful of Republicans joining us. We have never come close to 71 votes. We have tried to press ahead to get to 71 votes on this issue. We have never gotten close to 71 votes, and now you are asking me why I didn't pick a tactic that would have required us to have 71 votes or else the entire system shuts down this Sunday? Is that what you are asking me, Representative?" Mitchell, J.: "Yes. That's exactly what I'm asking because you never really asked on this side of the aisle how we felt. There's many on this side of the aisle that would have been more than happy to vote for an override and then do it correctly. I mean this… this whole thing is a sham, we know that. This is a political ploy by a Governor who wants to run for a third time, even though his approval rating is in the tank. And yet, we're going to concur with something that gives him a favorable look in the area of Chicago. To me, I'm pretty flabbergasted. I think it could have… you know, we could have taken a look at this and did it differently and don't you dare blame Republicans for this action. This is your Motion, not ours. Thank you."
"Representative Flowers."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Lady yield? Representative Hamos, first of all…"
"Sponsor yields."
"…I want to congratulate you on all the hard work and the long hours that you've put into passing this very important piece of legislation, but I just need some 09500211.doc 24 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 clarification because of the telephone calls that I got in regards to this legislation. In regards to the free ride, is it really a free ride for all seniors? Can you please elaborate? If you are in a certain area and if… according to the legislation it talks about a fixed route transportation. If I go… if I wanted to go off that route, will I have to pay despite the fact I'm a senior citizen and if I want to leave the CTA and get on the Pace and then move on to the METRA, would I ever have to pay if I leave my fixed route?"
"Well, you're asking a… a really good question. I think the way that we read this Amendatory Veto each, and certainly in the RTA region as… and really downstate, too, this would only apply to fixed routes. So, you've made that point. In the RTA region, what the Governor's Amendatory Veto message contemplates is that each of the three (3) service boards would issue their own senior pass for residents in their own… in their own service area, I believe is the way this reads. So, if you want to ride the CTA, let's say, and CTA serves Chicago and forty (40) suburban communities, if you want… if you're in a collar county and you're a resident of a collar county and you hadn't… I don't know exactly what that means, whether you would be able to ride the CTA senior… as a senior for free. I… I just don't know."
"So, you don't know if I would be able to ride free…"
"No, I'm sorry, that's not correct. If you are a resident in the RTA region, you would be able to, but the three (3) service boards would be setting up their own 09500211.doc 25 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 systems for giving you a card. So presumably, you would have to go around with three (3) cards if you thought that you were going to be riding all three (3)."
"So, if I'm in one (1) region, I can't just freely ride and get on the transportation in the other region, there is a fee that I would have to pay. So it's not really a free ride, as it has been alluded to."
"Well, and again, the same concept, if you're… if you have your three (3) senior cards in the RTA region but now you came to Springfield and you're not a resident of the Springfield Mass Transit District, then you would not qualify as a senior for that free ride in the Springfield Mass Transit…"
"So, my question to you again is that is… despite the fact this has been advocated and talked about as a free ride, it's really not a free ride. There is a cost to be paid by the very senior citizen who think they're going to get a free ride, am I correct?"
"I… I think you could look at it that way, it's also not exactly a state program. They… it wasn't set up as a state program, per se."
"But… for the average senior citizen out there, they think it's a state program and they think they will be able to ride from one end of the state to the other as a free ride. Now, my next question… because I had some seniors to call me, Mrs. Taylor specifically, she called and she told me about how her prescription drugs has gone up. Is there a tax on the drugs that the senior citizens are going to have to pay when they get this free ride?" 09500211.doc 26 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008
"Well, I hope not. That's a different issue."
"But do… is there a tax… will there be a tax on prescription drugs that senior citizens will have to… that may… they may have to use…"
"No. And…"
"…and pay taxes on?"
"Well, certainly, Representative Flowers, the Governor's Amendatory Veto, of course, does not impose a tax and even the underlying Bill which provides for a modest increase in the regional sales tax does not include food or medicine."
"So, you're saying that there is no tax on prescription drugs in this Amendatory Veto. Representative, there's no tax on prescription drugs in this Amendatory Veto?"
"Not in the Amendatory Veto."
"Okay. Where is it, please?"
"The regional sales tax, that we vote on as part of the underlying Bill, is a modest increase in the sales tax along with the Chicago real estate transfer tax. I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to."
"So, if… if I'm a senior and I need my prescription drugs, is there going to be an extra tax… will there be a tax increase on my prescription drugs?"
"You know… I… I do want to say this…"
"I jus… can you jus…"
"Yes, I think the answer is there will be a modest increase for RTA for prescription drugs as well. And I want to be honest about this. When the state excluded food and medicine from the sales tax many years ago, in the 09500211.doc 27 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 '70s, that was the… as part of the state sales tax, but that we never excluded in all these years from the RTA portion of the sales tax. So, I want to be honest, that they're the same modest increase in the regional sales tax applies to food and medicine in the RTA region."
"Well, thank you, Representative. And I just want to close by saying that I have always heard that there's no such thing as a free ride, and you just confirmed that. Thank you very much."
"Mr. Tryon."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to speak to the Bill. I didn't vote for the underlying Bill because I thought it did not address the entire transit problem. It didn't address the needs for capital of the CTA, the capital needs of METRA. It didn't expand transit services. I think we could have done a better Bill had we tied it to a capital Bill. But with that said, I would like to just kind of reiterate what I've heard from the Governor's Office since he did the budget address last February. He told us he was not going to raise taxes on the working men and women of the State of Illinois; no way, no how, would he raise taxes on the working men and women of the State of Illinois. Well, this raises taxes on the working men and women of the State of Illinois, whether you're a senior riding for free or a senior buying drugs or a senior buying groceries. No matter who you are in the Chicago Metropolitan Area, if you're working, retired, you're paying a higher tax. And now because the Governor signed a Bill and now sweetens up the pot to allow seniors to ride free, take a bad Bill, 09500211.doc 28 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 make it worse. Let's call it what it is, it's a diversion for the Governor so that the Governor can fly under the radar screen of the fact that he had made a promise not to raise taxes on the working men and women of the State of Illinois and in fact, what he's done is he's given the biggest tax increase on the working men and women of the Chicago Metropolitan Area that has been given to them in the last twelve (12) years. And I think it's important for us to know exactly what that tax increase is. And it's easy because we can do the math and the math is simple, take the total number of sales tax in the City of Chicago and divide it by 2.8 million (2,800,000) people and you come up with twenty dollars ($20) per person in the City of Chicago. You take that same sales tax in McHenry County, divide it by three hundred twelve thousand (312,000) people and you come up with sixty-two dollars ($62) per person, everybody that works, every child, four hundred eighty dollars ($480) for a family of five (5) in Lake County versus one hundred dollars ($100) for a family of five (5) in the City of Chicago. This is a tax increase. We shouldn't support the Amendatory Veto because I believe we can do a better transit Bill if we work out the capital needs and we apply the tax fairly and equitably. Ask yourself, who's going to subsidize… who is going to subsidize the free rides in the mass transit system? It's going to be subsidized by fare increases that are going to be made throughout the region when the fare increases are there. It's going to be subsidized by the diversion of the sales tax dollars to the riders that aren't riding for 09500211.doc 29 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 free. Anyway we cut it this is not a fair and equitable application of the tax burden to the entire metropolitan region, especially when a citizen in the City of Chicago is only going to pay twenty dollars ($20) and a citizen in McHenry County is going to pay sixty-two dollars ($62). I would ask that we don't override this Amendatory Veto and that we put out the right Bill and the right Bill is one that expands transit service, meets the capital needs of the region and the State of Illinois. And I ask you for a 'no' vote. Thank you."
"Mr. Leitch."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Lady yield?"
"Sponsor yields."
"Can you tell me how much in this year's budget the cost is for the automatic transfer? I've heard different accounts. I've heard staffers say it's two eighty (280) I've heard other say it's three hundred sixty-five million (365,000,000). Do you happen to know what are we this year transferring into the RTA?"
"You mean, how much does the state provide as state match on the existing sales tax in the RTA region?"
" Yes."
"I… don't think I know that off the top of my head. We'll… we'll try to find out."
"I, well… I think it's a very significant point because I've heard on the floor, since we've been debating this measure, that it's as high as three hundred eighty-five million (385,000,000) and others… counts are two hundred sixty-nine million (269,000,000), it's a rather important 09500211.doc 30 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 number. My second question, would you accept a cap on the automatic transfer in your trailer Bill?"
"Well, you know, I think the question came up last week, Representative Leitch, with regard to a cap on the real- estate transfer tax portion of our new taxes because the sales tax we have a twenty-year history… twenty-four-year history and we have some sense of how that grows, sometimes it dips and sometimes it grows. The real estate transfer tax has felt a little bit like an unknown. That question did come up from one of your colleagues, on that side of the aisle, and what I answered, with respect to that, is what I would say to you as well, which is that we would have to think of some way to create a floor because it wouldn't be fair if there was a cap, but not also some basic income… I mean some basic revenue floor in those years when the revenues actually go down rather than go up."
"So, the answer is 'no'?"
"Yes. That's the answer is 'no'."
"So, the answer is 'no'. And see, this is my great concern because while all the political posturing has diverted our attentions to the blowing a hole at thirty million bucks ($30,000,000) into the rescue plan for the RTA, that, really in the end, is chump change, because what occurs at moments of crisis in the General Assembly, when we're here at the last minute dealing with a Bill of this importance before everything shuts down is there… are measures that are included in these Bills that come back to haunt future General Assemblies. And I would submit to you 09500211.doc 31 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 that one of those issues right now is the failure to put a cap on the automatic transfer language that is in this Bill. Because if you just step back and imagine a two… or a quarter percent increase in sales tax in an area as growing and thriving as our Chicago and Cook County and suburban areas are, an increase in the real estate transfer tax from seven dollars and fifty cents ($7.50) to over ten… to ten bucks ($10.00) and you don't put a cap on the state's match, what are you thinking? This is precisely the kind of irresponsible behavior that we would enact today in this crisis and future General Assemblies would turn to us later and say what were you thinking? Now, just because there are all the usual games going on here, promoted by the second floor, I hope that the Members, especially those of you downstate, don't take your eye off the ball. The mechanism left unchecked in this measure will cost hundreds of million of dollars sooner than later and compete for the other priorities, be they health care, education, or so many other important functions that we attempt to provide in our state budget. This Bill should be amended. The transfer authority should be capped or this Bill should be soundly defeated until we come back and get it right. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."
"Mr. Lang."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen. I rise to support the Lady's Motion, but I do have some comments to make. I did want to tell first, Mr. Sacia, that I'm a proud member of the Hick Caucus and I'd be happy to sit with you anytime on any issues important to the Hick 09500211.doc 32 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 Caucus. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, a lighthearted moment before I go on. I got a call from an executive from one (1) of our institutions of higher learning in the State of Illinois today. Said that he had interfaced with one (1) of his students and he said, 'I understand the General Assembly is working on legislation to give free rides for seniors.' And he said 'Why… why yes, they are.' and he said 'Well, what about the freshman, sophomores, and juniors?' I guess I thought that was funnier than you did. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a Bill we must pass. The transit riders that rely on the CTA and RTA and METRA and Pace demand that we do something today and as one (1) of the columnists in Chicago Sun-Times today said if necessary we should just hold our nose and vote for this, but there are some things that need to be said about it. Some were said very well by Representative Fritchey. I think we just have to call it what it is. This was a transparent attempt by the Governor of our state to pander to a group of voters for his own purposes. It was as clumsy… this is transparent, this was done by his… for his own political profit and at our expense and at the expense of twelve million (12,000,000) people that live in our state. People have seen through what the Governor's done. I've met with seniors over the last several days, as perhaps many of you have, and they're angry, even those that would get a free ride are angry. They're angry because they don't like to be used. They're angry because they see why the Governor's doing this and what he's doing. One of the seniors, in a moment that I thought was brilliant, said to me, and it 09500211.doc 33 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 will bring you back a thought to the last campaign, 'What was he thinking?' The General Assembly and the people of the State of Illinois should not be made to be part of the Governor's reelection campaign, but nevertheless, that's what he's done. On transit, apparently according to the Governor's comments, he had a plan to amendatorally veto any Bill we passed to him, that's what he said last week. 'Doesn't make any difference what Bill you send to me' he said, 'I'm going to veto it, I'm going to make changes in it.' And he had a plan that apparently he was unwilling to share with the Members of the Illinois General Assembly and twelve and a half million (12,500,000) people that live in the State of Illinois. I want to repeat that, while… although you know it. The Governor had a plan to deal with transit that he was unwilling to share with the Illinois General Assembly. Well, that sort of mirrors his personal record when he was in the Illinois General Assembly. I think we have a right to expect that the chief executive of our state is better than that. I think we have a right to expect that the chief executive of our state, if he's got answers to problems that face the people of the State of Illinois, to come to us and tell us what they are. After all, Governor, we are the Legislative Body and while you will get away with trying to legislate from the second floor, the Constitution of our state will tell you, if you would bother reading it, that we write the laws in the State of Illinois, not you, Sir. We have a responsibility to create laws and put them on your desk for your consideration. What you do here today, while we will 09500211.doc 34 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 ratify it, is unconscionable and unconstitutional and a use of the taxpayer dollars for your own benefit. If you had a plan, you could have come to us six (6) months ago and this would have been long put to rest, the transit riders would not have been panicked, businesses would not have been nervous, and we could have gone about the business of dealing with transit in our state. But this mirrors what you've done on other issues, Governor. On cable TV reform, you were not there, on electric rates you were not there, on property tax relief you were not there, and on the budget, you took a document that we created and ripped it up for your own benefit. You signed a Bill some years ago to strengthen the power of JCAR, but you blindly ignore JCAR any chance you get and completely go on your own program, no matter what that body tells you and no matter what the Members of the Illinois General Assembly think. Ladies and Gentlemen, it's time to call the Governor into account regardless of what Party he's in. We will pass this today, and we should pass this today, but we must speak out against abuses by the chief executive of our state. We must tell the truth on this floor, we must tell the truth in our districts, and we must make sure the people of our state know what's really going on here today. I intend to continue to speak out, I ask you to join me in that effort so that we can improve conditions here, improve the relationship between this Body and the chief executive of our state, who if he would only turn around and work with us we could actually make him a good Governor, but he's been unwilling to do that and until he's willing to 09500211.doc 35 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 join our hand, he will not be the Governor that we all hoped he would be. Ladies and Gentlemen, vote for this today, but let's start speaking the truth about what's going on in our state. Thank you."
"Representative Mulligan. Mulligan."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill and the issue. My preference would have been to override. I think this sets a precedent for the beginning of this year that is not a very good precedent. Of all my colleagues that have spoken they all have valid points, particularly from my downstate colleagues, some of us understand how much an import and export and things that happen here make up for the economy of our state, sometimes we vote together and sometimes we don't. Part of the problem was, this could have been a better Bill, if we had a Governor that would have gotten in here and discussed public policy in a correct way. For all of you that have made impassioned speeches today about not being happy with what's going on, just remember, this is the beginning of this year, it's going to a really tough budget year. This is a Governor that really doesn't have a clue on how to spend money; it's like we're printing it in the basement. The fact of the matter is when we have agencies that are told not to speak to our staff or to us and the public wonders what's happening here in Springfield, it's because we have a Governor who has decided that how we spend money is up to him and not for the rest of us to decide. The fact that we're not going to be able to pay our bills pretty soon and the things that are going to happen make this vote 09500211.doc 36 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 particularly hard for some of us for the simple reason that what we should have done is send a message right now. We're not going to put up with this, and we're not going to have a year like this. I won't go over the past five (5) years of what's… how some of the votes have gone and how people have placated him and how it's not worked out. But I will tell you, beginning with this vote, I'm not happy that we're not overriding it, I certainly think we need to support the people and what's going on, it could have been better if we'd gotten down to the nitty-gritty of it and not worried so much about how we're going to forget our… promise not to put out gaming. But this little tax is a big deal for him. I think he's got his priorities a little mixed up. But I certainly think for all the people made impassioned pleas this year, please remember, this is just the beginning of what's going to be a long year with a Governor that doesn't believe he has to get out there on public policy, doesn't believe that he needs to negotiate fair, doesn't think his agencies should be able to tell us how much money they're spending or where the current budget stands or how we're going to put a current budget together. Unfortunately, for some of us I think the issue is, do we go along with what he's doing and make ourselves look bad and less able to look for what we're… our constituents or do we let him have his way? Well, I guess we let him have his way, but he's not really getting his way, what we're doing is we're going to look out for the public policy and the people that we represent. For my colleagues that can't support it, I certainly understand that. Different parts 09500211.doc 37 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 of the state look at different things and it may not be as beneficial for you, that's part of the reason we're having so much trouble on education. But I will let you know, I think the move here not to override this is a mistake. I think it's sending the wrong tone for the beginning of this year when we're going to have a tough year with someone that doesn't know how to spend money, doesn't know how to lead, and doesn't know how to bring people together on public policy. So although he thinks that this may be a good idea and that he's gotten some press on it, I think it's only been bad. And I will hope that all the people that are upset about this now will remember this is a long couple of months that are coming ahead of us on budget and I hope you keep the resolve of not letting what's going to happen, happen without a big strong fight against having us pushed around on a budget that's going to collapse and implode and the problems we're going to have. So although I see this as a better thing to override and send him a message, my hope is that we don't hurt the people that have to ride public transportation."
"Mr. John Bradley." Bradley, J.: "Will the Sponsor yield?"
"Sponsor yields." Bradley, J.: "Representative Hamos, I represent Williamson, Franklin, and Hamilton Counties in downstate Illinois. Is it true when the Governor did this Amendatory Veto that he cut out Williamson, Franklin, and Hamilton County seniors for free rides?" 09500211.doc 38 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008
"Representative, if you don't have… if those three (3) areas do not have fixed route service then the seniors would not be eligible for a service that doesn't exist."
"So, in other words, when he crafted this Amendatory Veto he did not provide free rides for my seniors, is that right?"
"He did not provide for free routes for what we typically call paratransit services, very expensive services for which some people qualify, but they are very expensive."
"I voted for the… To the Bill. I voted for the underlying Bill. The Jackson County Mass Transit District under the underlying Bill was going to get almost fifty thousand dollars ($50,000). Rides Mass Transit, Shawnee Mass Transit, Williamson County Mass Transit we're going to get nearly a million dollars ($1,000,000). That was the result of a tax increase that took place in the Cook County area only. That was… I know there's no such thing as free money, but it's as close as it comes to downstate Illinois. I supported that. It was the right thing to do. It was the right thing to do for all the State of Illinois, not just for Chicago and the suburbs, but also for downstate Illinois. I know the Governor may think that I'm a wall- flower, but it's not right to take that out on the seniors of my district."
"Mr. Cross."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I… I want to make sure one thing is clear, from this side of the aisle. There are… been some suggestions that there are those that want to see 09500211.doc 39 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 the system in Chicago fail and a doomsday scenario happen. There's nothing further from the truth. We may have different approaches on how we want to solve this problem, in fact we do, but Republicans, like Democrats, understand the importance of the City of Chicago and the region and the need to keep transit moving from an economic standpoint, and to keep people in jobs and going to school and going to the doctor, that's important. What I find a little fascinating about today, though, is many on the Democrat side of this aisle want to pick on the Governor, and it's pretty easy to pick on a guy that's got a rating of about 20 percent. And what's fascinating about it is, it is your Party and your Leadership since 2003 that have enabled him to do all the things you're complaining about. First of all, you elected him, you were strongly besid… behind his campaign, you had active roles in his campaign, you wanted to see this individual get elected as our Governor and now because he's not up this election, we're going to run from him as fast as we can. Now, I'm not going to sit here and defend him. I don't agree with most everything he's done, but it's been your Party, you've been in charge since 2003, you run everything in this state, you love to tell us that. We run the Cook County Board, we run the City of Chicago, we run the General Assembly, the House, the Senate, the Mansion, and all the other offices and when you look at your track record since 2003, there's not a lot to brag about. I can see why you're trying to run from the Governor, but you can't. We have, right now, a structural deficit in this state somewhere between two 09500211.doc 40 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 and three billion dollars ($2,000,000,000 and $3,000,000,000). Is that because since you've been in charge since 2003 you have increased spending every year? Well, you have. You've increased our state's budget every year since 2003 without the sufficient amount of revenue to keep that budget strong and to make it stable. Since you've been in charge, we've increased Medicaid liability significantly, I think now the number's anywhere from nine to ten billion dollars ($9,000,000,000 to $10,000,000,000) we're going to see this year. All increased under your watch, when you've run everything. You've enabled this Governor to spend recklessly, you've been part of the problem. You've enabled this Governor to increase his Medicaid liability, the state's Medicaid liability. You've enabled him, you've passed that legislation to allow that to happen. Have we forgotten about our pension system? Worst funded pension system in the country. You, on that side of the aisle, working with the Governor at… at the exclusion of Republicans, said let's change the way we put money into the pension system and just not put as much in every year. We're going to shorten that amount to the tune of about three and a half to four billion dollars ($3,500,000,000 to $4,000,000,000) and now you want to criticize the Governor? You did that. He signed the Bill, you passed the legislation. We now are hearing from our Comptroller, who happens to be of the same Party you all are, that we have 1.7 billion dollars ($1,700,000,000) of unpaid bills. Why do you think that happened? That happened because you increased spending without the 09500211.doc 41 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 sufficient amount of revenue to support it. That happened because you're not making pension payments, that happened because you've increased Medicaid liability, that happened because of you're enabling and working together with this Governor. David Leitch made an… I think a great observation today in the request to cap the amount of money coming out of GRF under this Bill. But once again, you don't want to be part of controlling spending, controlling government, you want to sit here today now and complain to the… about the Governor and when it's all said and done, one of the things that could make the economy of this state even stronger, raise money, raise more money to take care of taxes, make sure people are working when the housing market is down, make sure people are working when unemployment is up, make sure people are working when interest rates are starting to… right now they've gone down but have been up, is to pass a capital Bill. But we can't get that done. We can't get that done because your Party is in control, you control everything, you let us know that all the time, but you won't even get a capital Bill done. We're going to lose billions of federal money. Those people that are riding the CTA who think that because we've now averted doomsday, everything going to be fine, slow zones will go away, new buses will be purchased, new trains will be purchased, ain't going to happen. This Bill does nothing to take care of the capital needs of the CTA or for that matter, school problems in southern Illinois, state buildings at U of I, roads all over the state. So, you can run the state into financial ruin but you can't do one of 09500211.doc 42 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 the most basic things to get this economy strong again and that's do a capital Bill. I would… I guess it's natural… I guess it's natural to kick a guy when he's down and I'm not going to defend this guy. I don't like what he did on the free ride, because there ain't no free ride… ain't no free ride, however you want to say it, there is no free ride. I know how to say it grammatically. But I would be very cautious on the other side of the aisle, those of you that run the state, you're running it into the ground. And be careful what you're saying because all of the things you're talking about, you caused those problems starting in 2003. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."
"Representative Hamos to close."
"Thank you. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the day, this is the moment. This is the final vote on what has been a three-year effort, a Bill that we can be proud of which is serious public policy. Today there's been more anger directed at this Bill and at the needs of the regional transit system that we've had in all the previous votes combined and I'm sorry about that. Because, Ladies and Gentlemen, as we stand here looking into the abyss of a very serious shutdown, potentially on Sunday, we have a solution. We have comprehensive long-term funding with reform. It's a Bill we can support, it's a Bill we can be proud of, it's a Bill that will do the job and I seek a strong 'aye' vote."
Speaker Madigan: "The Lady moves to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor, relative to House Bill 656. Those in favor of the Lady's Motion signify by voting 09500211.doc 43 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 'yes'; those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 61 people voting 'yes', 47 people voting 'no'. The Motion, having received a Constitutional Majority, the specific recommendations of the Governor as to House Bill 656 is accepted and the Bill is declared passed, in that form. On Supplemental Calendar #1 there appears Senate Bill 1409. Representative Ryg. Mr. Clerk, what is the status of this Bill?"
"Senate Bill 1409, is on the Order of Second Reading, a Bill for an Act concerning transportation. Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Ryg, has been approved for consideration."
"Representative Ryg on the Amendment."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Senate Bill 1409 as amended is a trailer Bill that provides if and only if House Bill 656, the comprehensive transit package, becomes law then two (2) things will happen. The first thing is that the collar counties will be required to provide a detailed report of the funds that they collect from the quarter percent sales tax collected in each county and they must also report the expenditures and obligations of the county using these funds during the previous calendar year. This report will be made available to the General Assembly, the Regional Transportation Authority, and the Commission on Government Forecasting and Accountability by March 1 of the year following the adoption of the ordinance imposing the tax and March 1 the year thereafter. More importantly, the Bill as amended 09500211.doc 44 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 addresses the Governor's Amendatory Veto message by expanding the Illinois Circuit Breaker Program to include free public transportation to eligible seniors and persons with disabilities who meet the Circuit Breaker income criteria. We heard repeatedly at testimonies of the Mass Transit and Paratransit Committee the need for accessible and affordable public transportation services for transit- dependent populations. This measure is a careful and thoughtful and deliberative improvement on the Governor's Amendatory Veto. This will provide that the people who really need public transportation will have access to public transportation. The Circuit Breaker Program is a long-standing program that has offered benefits in property tax relief, license plate discounts, and prescription drug programs for seniors and persons with disabilities who have the need. The eligibility requirements for people under Circuit Breaker are based on Illinois residency, income level, proof of age, and disability. So expanding access to free public transportation makes sense using this existing program. Again, we know that these transit- dependent populations need access to public transportation. We also know that it's important to meet the need of our Illinois citizens across the state who are served by public transit systems in a way that provides a service to those in need, not only because they need the service but because they need the state's assistance in getting that service. I'm happy to answer any questions and I urge an 'aye' vote. Thank you."
"Mr. Franks." 09500211.doc 45 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill. I voted against the last Bill because I didn't think it was fair and equitable. I didn't think it was good for my county. I applaud, though, Representative Ryg in her efforts here because what she's done has been very thoughtful. I stand in support of this Bill because it makes sense and I think it's a very important component of this Bill as well, where it requires the counties that are levying the extra quarter cent ($.0025) sales tax increase to disclose how that money's being spent. I think this is a good start as a follow-up to the transit Bill. I intend on filing as well, in the near future, a Bill that would require the six (6) collar counties that are implementing the additional quarter cent ($.0025) sales tax increase to affirmatively opt in if they wish to keep that sales tax increase or it shall sunset on July 1. I think that way we help to protect our citizens, we have accountability all the way through, and this is a good Bill for accountability. What I'm sorry is we're here today having to do this. The Governor said that he's thought of this idea since before Thanksgiving. I don't understand why we have to come back and do an emergency Session to handle this crisis that was created by the Governor by not speaking with the Sponsors of the Bill before the vote happened last week because if he would of worked with the General Assembly last week instead of saying, 'I've got a secret plan', this could have been done and we could have talked about the idea of the seniors, which I think a lot of us agree with and this income base, I think, makes it palatable. When I was 09500211.doc 46 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 thinking about the events from last week when the… when the General Assembly passed the Bill and the Governor's immediate Veto, even though he knew all along that's what he was going to do, that he was going to give or try to give free rides to seniors the image that kept coming into my mind was a three-year-old who was just covered in chocolate and it's dripping from his face and his hands, running free in a linen store putting his hands on everything and just gleefully running and just making the biggest mess that he possibly could and then leaving it for us to clean up. It's not a question of leadership here, this is not something he ought to be taking bows for, this is something he ought to be ashamed of. He should have been working with the General Assembly from the beginning. We sat and listened about a year ago to his budget address. We sat and listened to him on the campaign trail, how he was going to spend ten billion dollars ($10,000,000,000) for education. We haven't seen that, we haven't seen a rocking of the system when it comes to ethics reform. Representative Fritchey's House Bill #1 is still lingering. We haven't addressed property tax issues, we haven't addressed health care issues, it seems that we only react to crises. We aren't proactive and that is not how government is supposed to work. I encourage folks to vote for this Bill because it will help clean up yet another one of the messes the Governor has left us, but it doesn't go far enough. But please vote for this. It's a good start."
"Mr. Fritchey." 09500211.doc 47 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008
"Thank you, Speaker. I won't belabor my earlier points. I would echo what Representative Franks said. I… I will say while I'm glad that relief appears to be on the way to transit riders, I… I still contain my same offense, that the fact that we're here and why we're here. Ladies and Gentlemen, I just want to let you know that as we speak I'm having legislation drafted that would be a Constitutional Amendment to do away with the ability of a Governor to amendatorally veto a Bill. An Amendatory Veto, when properly used, makes government more efficient, helps streamline the process. At the same time, we realize that it's a powerful tool that if put in the wrong hands can be readily abused. It's unfortunate we have ourselves in a situation of having to take this away, potentially, but if the Governor is unable to play with his toys, we're going to take his toys away from him. So, if anybody is interested in supporting this, I will have this Bill filed by the end of the day and I'd welcome your support. Thank you."
"Mr. Eddy."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"Sponsor yields."
"Representative, this Amendment does not cap the automatic transfer. Am I correct in… in my reading of this Amendment? This… this does nothing to cap the automatic transfer and therefore… Is that correct?"
"It does not."
"So, therefore some of the concerns that have been voiced on the House Floor today, regarding the potential increase 09500211.doc 48 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 in general revenue that could… could be obligated in future year budgets toward that match, your… your legislation does not address that concern?"
"It does not."
"Would you be amenable to changing your Amendment so that, that concern is addressed due to the fact that as we all know we're looking at budget years out that already are… are strained. We know that even as we approach FY09 budget cycle, that at the end of December the Comptroller said we have 1.7 billion dollars ($1,700,000,000) in outstanding bills. I… I just wonder if you… you would agree that it would be the prudent thing to do, as long as we're offering an Amendment, that you would include that."
"Representative, my interest is in responding to the Governor's Amendatory Veto expanding access to free transportation to all seniors. I'm suggesting that's better done by having some criteria around who has access to that free public transportation."
"Okay. And I… I wouldn't argue that. I understand what you're trying to do with your Amendment, but in your Amendment you also address the county sales tax money and require that those counties report to the General Assembly the use. So, you really kind of have gone outside the purview of simply the senior citizens issue, in your Amendment."
"We haven't addressed the revenue side of the underlying Bill."
"And I'm just simply suggesting that in that Amendment that we add a couple of things. First of all, this cap. 09500211.doc 49 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 The second thing is, does… is there anything in your Amendment that deals with the fact that, that food and drugs are not exempt from this sales tax increase?"
"No."
"And… and once again, I would inquire as to whether or not you believe that the exemption of food and drugs from the sales tax would be something that would improve the Bill and since you're amending the Bill, would you be acceptable to the idea that we would exempt food and drugs from this sales tax?"
"Representative, I want to stay with the intent of the Amendment as we filed it."
"Thank you. Very quickly to the Amendment. Mr. Speaker, I think as long as we're looking at trailer Bill or trailer legislation in the form of an Amendment to… to try and address some of the concerns that we have with the Governor's Amendatory Veto, that we also address the concern that we're writing a blank check for future budgets regarding this match. Representative Leitch made tremendous points regarding how this state is going to possibly… we don't know the amount, but it could be billions of dollars in the future that are taken out of GRF to fund the match, and if and when that happens it could cause us to have to eliminate or cut spending for other areas. For Pete's sake folks, we still haven't funded… we still haven't funded the capital needs of twenty-three (23) school districts that are five (5) years old. I know we've had, on both sides of the aisle, attempt to do that, that actually the Governor thwarted as well with a last minute… 09500211.doc 50 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 last minute decision that some paperwork… obscure paperwork wasn't in. I'm just saying that if… if we're going to offer these Amendments that it would make some sense to offer Amendments on a trailer Bill that would take care of some of the other problems. Thank you."
"Mr. Mathias."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill. I know many of you have different views on the Bill that we just previously passed because of the sales tax increase, but that Bill has now been voted on, has been passed out of this House and from my point of view hopefully will be passed in the Senate. The Bill that we have before us today has nothing to do with tax increases, it really only has to do… because that's… will be the law, if the Senate passes it. If the Senate doesn't pass it, then, of course this Bill will also become moot 'cause it's dependent on that first Bill. But it does make a lot of sense that we encourage our disabled community who cannot afford to ride mass transit to use mass transit. It makes sense to encourage seniors to get out of their cars and use mass transit for those seniors who could at least afford to take mass transit. So, this is a different issue than the previous Bill where we may have some policy differences on… on sales tax versus other type of funding for mass transit. This Bill only deals with where shall we best allocate some of those funds and in, at least in my thinking, giving seniors who can afford to ride mass transit or could afford to pay for it, who make in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, it makes no sense to give them a free 09500211.doc 51 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 ride. But it makes absolute sense to give those who can least afford it, both the disabled community and the senior community, a free ride on mass transit so they can get to the doctor, so they can get to work, to wherever they need to go. So, let's put aside any differences that we have with the first Bill, there really is no carryover to this Bill and I strongly urge a 'yes' vote on Senate Bill 1409."
"Mr. Reis."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield."
"Sponsor yields."
"Representative, some have estimated that this is going to cost the system about thirty million dollars ($30,000,000) and regardless if that's ten (10) low or ten (10) high, is there any language in this Bill that raises any of the taxes that we just passed with the… the RTA Bill last week or any other taxes that helps fill in this hole or is this just… Well, I'll let you answer that question first."
"This does not raise any taxes. This addresses the fact that the Governor proposed offering free rides to all seniors. That cost is estimated at about thirty million dollars ($30,000,000). The cost that we're proposing in this trailer Bill is the same. And that's a best guess estimate. Nobody really knows what the cost is going to be for these future proposals. But it does not expand any cost to the Circuit Breaker Program, it comes out of the funds generated by House Bill 656."
"And I understand that, I just wanted to make sure that nowhere hidden in this Bill there was language that raised 09500211.doc 52 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 the county sales tax even more or raised fares even more to make up for that thirty million (30,000,000)."
"No, it does not."
"Have you… has the Governor got any plans… secret plans up his sleeves to AV this Bill as well and…"
"It would be very difficult for me to think that he won't, given his past practices…"
"Thank you, Representative."
"…which is why I think it's so important for us to approve a trailer Bill that sets forth parameters that are deliberated based on all the information we learned from the hearings that we had."
"Thank you, Representative."
"Mr. McCarthy."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Lady yield?"
"Sponsor yields."
"Representative, the… like many times down here we get this last minute legislation that some of us haven't seen before and I've been trying to read it and I usually object to that when things are brought upon us pretty hurriedly, but I know your determination. But in the beginning of this legislation there's a… a request or a demand, I guess, for a report by the RTA boards about the tax… about the income or the sales tax that they're going to be collecting under the last piece of legislation."
"Right."
"Was that just an oversight on the last piece of legislation that that wasn't in there or what's the actual purpose for that request?" 09500211.doc 53 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008
"The purpose is to insure that the collar counties, who will benefit from an additional quarter percent sales tax, are using those funds for transportation and public safety purposes as House Bill 656 provided."
"Now… now, in there…"
"So, it's an accountability measure for the collar counties for the additional tax revenue."
"And that report will come back to the Auditor General?"
"No. To the RTA, to the General Assembly, and to the Commission on… of CGFA."
"Okay. Well, I think…"
"Forecasting on Governmen…"
"…like I said about new legislation that comes up, but 'cause in the beginning of it, it talks about .75 percent and we've been talking about .25 percent and adding one half percent(.50). Is that because in those areas it's already at .25 and when…"
"Yes."
"…they go up to .5, they go up to .75?"
"So, the .25 is the existing RTA tax. House Bill 656 increased that by .25 across the entire RTA region, but in the collar counties there's an additional quarter percent (.25) increase that goes back to those counties to be spent at the discretion of the local county boards. And so this report provides accountability for how they're doing that."
"Okay. So, by that statement when they make this… when they make this report back to the General Assembly, and I think you have one (1) other group that has to get 09500211.doc 54 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 the report back, the RTA, are they going to be made to be responsible to show that they're at least spending two thirds of that .75 tax…"
"The Bill…"
"on… on transportation, because the one-third of it we already said that's up to their own discretion."
"So, the… the process in House Bill 656 is that the… now it will be one-half percent (.50) collected for RTA. That goes to the RTA for mass transit purposes. The additional .25 percent is collected… or is returned to the counties whatever is collected in the counties goes back to those collar counties, but they can only spend it on transportation and a recent addition last week was public safety. They're restricted in the uses for those funds."
"So, this report is really to see what they're using their own quarter percent (.25) for."
"Right."
"The half percent (.50) automatically goes back to the RTA?"
"Goes to the RTA."
"So, this isn't to prove that the RTA's getting their money correctly, they're going to get that."
"Right."
"This is the .5 percent…"
"Right."
"…some of that coming back to them. But like Will County, that I represent a small part of it, they're going to have to show that that .25 percent… Now, if they wanted to put some of that aside because they want to do 09500211.doc 55 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 transportation projects that are much more costly than what that .25 percent will generate for them, will this report allow them to accumulate it by year-to-year as long as they show that that's what it's for long-term or are we going to say you have to spend it right then?"
"No. The report requires that we know what they have either expended the money on or where it's obligated. So, it's assumed that the collar counties will issue bonds and have those obligations that will be paid by the revenue generated from the .25 percent tax."
"Okay. And then just a little bar on the side of our, you know, on the side of our computers where it tells us how long the Amendment is, looks like there's a pretty extensive Amendment. Is there any punishment for a county that does not either issue the report or that their report comes up lacking, showing that all the money's not accounted for?"
"No. But it's… it will be required in the law so we can… we can require that."
"We require them to make the report."
"Right."
"But, so, just a public awareness that'll go out there to say you're not fulfilling your needs. Now, when they're asking about the cost of this now, it seems like this will be less people going for free than were under the old Bill. Would you say that's true or because of the… I know you added in sixteen-year-olds and older who are disabled?" 09500211.doc 56 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008
"What… there are a couple opportunities here. We don't know for sure, because the proposal came up so recently, but in the paratransit hearings, we learned that in other areas… other metropolitan areas, Miami-Dade County, offers a free transit pass to seniors and persons with disabilities. They actually had cost savings because with the free pass people went to fixed-route services versus the more expensive paratransit services. And PACE, as the paratransit provider for the entire RTA region, believes they'll experience those same cost savings. But as we understand it now, we believe that approximately the same number of people will be impacted by the free access. We've… but what we've done is change it from seniors who don't have need for financial assistance to make sure that we're serving seniors who do need the assistance and persons with disabilities. The Governor's proposal did not address…"
"But will this affect the paratransit riders who…"
"No."
"…like, go in their individual vans or things of that nature as long as they're along a fixed route?"
"No. This service is only for fixed route the… this free access is only for fixed-route services. So, it doesn't include any of the paratransit or dial-a-ride programs or any of the other programs."
"Well, I… I still think it should save us a lot of money. I… I mean, I'm thinking, like in my area, most of the seniors… I mean, the vast majority of the seniors do not… are not eligible for the Circuit Breaker protections. 09500211.doc 57 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 Okay? So, all of them are going to be told that they can't ride for free."
"They… they are eligible for the reduced fare programs of the transit systems, but they will not be eligible in this proposal tying it to Circuit Breaker."
"But… but it seems like the costs were about the same. We were talking about twenty to thirty million (20,000,000-30,000,000) under the Governor's everybody goes free and we're talking twenty to thirty million (20,000,000-30,000,000) under your proposal. It just doesn't seem to, you know add up to me when I think like about my own area. I think this proposal will probably eliminate 90 percent of my seniors who would have been riding for free. Maybe I… maybe I have more than that, but I…"
"Well, the transit systems were reluctant to… to lowball the figure, the cost either way, because they just truly don't know what the demand will be when the service is available. So, they were quite confident that given the funding that 656 provides them that they can accommodate providing this service with this criteria to the seniors and persons with disabilities. But it also requires reporting back every year so we will know what the experience has been and be able to assess the impact."
"Okay. Well, to the Bill, Mr. Speaker. I just say that I opened my remarks talking about how when we have things come up quickly, during my eleven (11) years on this House Floor, many times those will come back to bite us in the end because things weren't as well thought out as they 09500211.doc 58 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 can. While I respect Representative Ryg's thoroughness, probably more than just about anybody's on the floor, I do think we have to be careful when we go forward with this, on any kind of legislation that jumps at us and… with an hour's notice or two (2) hours' notice when it's this lengthy. So, I will take that into consideration when I make my vote."
"This Bill is on the Order of Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, how many Amendments are there?"
Clerk Mahoney: "Floor Amendment #1 has been approved for consideration. Floor Amendment #2 was filed today and has been referred to the Rules Committee."
"Are there any further Amendments?"
"Only Floor Amendments 1 and 2."
"All right. I'm going to propose that we adopt this Amendment on a voice vote, put it on Third Reading. So those in favor of the Amendment say 'aye'; those opposed say 'no'. The Chair recognizes Mr. Eddy."
"Mr. Speaker, we have adopted Amendment 1?"
"I don't think we've adopted anything. Mr. Clerk, have any Amendments been adopted to the Bill?"
"No Amendments have been adopted."
"Mr. Clerk, have we been debating Amendment 1?"
"Amendment… yes, Floor Amendment #1."
"Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time after the adoption of Amendment 1, I'd like to make a Motion on Amendment #2."
"Yeah. All right. The Motion is, 'Shall the Amendment be adopted?' Those in favor say 'aye'; those 09500211.doc 59 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 opposed say 'no'. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments have been approved for consideration."
"Mr. Eddy."
"Mr. Speaker, under House Rule 18 (g), I do move for the discharge of Amendment 2 to Senate Bill 1409 from House Rules Committee. Under House Rule 54(a) (2) all Motions are assigned Standard Debate status and I wish to debate my Motion. Basically, that Amendment is an Amendment that would cap the match and I… I make that Motion and under Rule 49, 'any vote shall be by record vote whenever 5 Representatives shall so request' and there are at least 5 Members on my side of the aisle that wish for a recorded vote on the Motion to Discharge my Amendment from the House Rules Committee."
"You've all heard the Gentlemen's Motion. The Chair recognizes Mr. Lang."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. According to the Rule, I object to the Motion."
"Mr. Eddy."
"Mr. Speaker, under House Rule 57(a), I move to appeal the ruling of the Chair and that there… Excuse me, I'm sorry, Mr. Speaker. Maybe you'll let it out. I… I may be…"
"Mr. Eddy, the Rules provide that once Mr. Lang objected, your Motion will require unanimous consent. Therefore, under that Rule, your Motion failed and now I 09500211.doc 60 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 think you wish to move to appeal the ruling of the Chair. Mr. Eddy."
"That's right, Mr. Speaker."
"Okay."
"I move to appeal the ruling of the Chair…"
"…All right."
"…and that there be no recorded vote to discharge House Amendment 2 to Senate Bill 1409 from the House Rules Committee."
"The Gentleman moves to appeal the ruling of the Chair. Those who support the Chair… The question is… the question is, 'Shall the Chair be sustained?' Mr. Eddy."
"Mr. Speaker, a question on… an inquiry on my side of the aisle whether or not the Motion is debatable. We have a couple of folks who would like to… speak to the Motion."
"All right. The Rule provides that you get two (2) minutes, somebody in opposition to you gets two (2) minutes, and then somebody else gets one (1). That's what the Rule reads. But Mr. Eddy, why don't we just work our way through all of this. So, you've appealed the ruling of the Chair and the question to the Body is, 'Shall the Chair be sustained?' Okay. That's the question before the Body. Did you wish to speak to that, Mr. Eddy?"
"Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak. Mr. Speaker, we have… we have all been through the wringer, so to speak, on this issue and I want to congratulate Representative Hamos for her diligence and hard work on this Bill. But what before us… what is before 09500211.doc 61 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 us now is a piece of legislation that attempts as a trailer to deal with some issues related to the… the Bill that we… we have sent out of here. Now, my concern is that the improvements that could be made, all of those improvements have not been made and I believe that an improvement would be to cap, to cap the amount of the match and I… I strongly believe a lot of folks would agree with that and I'm simply asking that that Amendment be given the opportunity for a vote on the floor of the House of elected Representatives."
"All right. The matter before the Body is, 'Shall the Chair be sustained?' And the Chair recognizes Mr. Leitch."
"Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I rise to support Representative Eddy's Motion or actually to support his position. We have an opportunity with his Amendment to make a fiscally reckless and irrespons… irresponsible Bill responsible and given all the time and all the wear and tear that's gone into working on this issue, and I would add my word of thanks as well to Representative Hamos for her hard work on the measure, we have an opportunity to put a responsible cap on the automatic transfers that Lord knows how much will be in subsequent years, but could easily reach within several… years… five (5), six (6) years, something on the order of a billion dollars ($1,000,000,000) and just keep growing as the sales tax and additional real estate transfers occur in the area affected. So, I would simply appeal to the Members to just pause for a moment, reflect on the importance of this measure, the long-term im… the long-term impact of this 09500211.doc 62 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 measure, and make a responsible vote in what has otherwise been a Session characterized by the utmost in irresponsibility. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."
"Again, the question is, 'Shall the Chair be sustained?' Those who wish to support the Chair should vote 'yes'; those against the Chair should vote 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 65 people voting 'yes', 43 people voting 'no'. And the Chair is sustained. The matter is on the Order of Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, put the Bill on the Order of Third Reading and read the Bill for a third time."
"Senate Bill 1409, a Bill for an Act concerning transportation. Third Reading of this Senate Bill."
"This matter has been fully debated on the Order of Second Reading. The Chair would propose to recognize Representative Ryg for a very brief explanation on Third Reading. Representative Ryg."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, what we are attempting to do here is require more accountability for the revenues that are being generated for the collar counties and also to expand the access to free public transportation to include seniors and persons with disabilities who meet the criteria of the existing circuit breaker program. I'd like to stress that I think it's really important that we recognize that as recently as yesterday at the mass transit hearing there were not seniors in that room asking for free public transportation, there were people with disabilities. When we talk about fixed incomes, those are the people that 09500211.doc 63 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 need our assistance, those are the people who have no other options. And so I ask for your support, not only to approve this measure, but to approve it in a way that we send a message that we care about the people of the State of Illinois who need and qualify for our assistance and we want this Bill passed in a way that it will remain the law, that it will not require that the transit agencies respond to free transportation for all seniors, even though the Governor's message left areas of the state out and require that people in the RTA get their transit passes from three (3) different service boards, there's no transferability of the service, so if you qualify in Springfield, you don't qualify in Chicago. We've addressed all those concerns in this Bill and it deserves widespread support. Thank you."
"Representative Mulligan."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As interesting as this issue is, which is created by the Governor, I think what just happened on the Rules right before this and not allowing our Members to put another Amendment on this Bill speaks to what the problem of the General Assembly is and why we're not getting things done. When a rule can be so punitive that one person can keep it from being applied onto a Bill and then the public wants to know why we're not acting down here or why they can't overrule something in the Senate, it has to do with the rules. So, as good as this is and a wonderful idea it was, at the very last minute that we had to put on, the other issue that my colleague, Mr. Eddy, brought forth was an issue that should have been discussed over the whole time of this Bill and 09500211.doc 64 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 the fact that one (1) person can block that shows what's wrong with the General Assembly and why we're not moving forward here. It's the rules."
"Representative Chapa LaVia."
"Thank you, Speaker. I'd like to speak to the Bill. In my district, in Aurora, I'm kind of the end of the transit line and the majority of calls that I got in my district in Kane County were from AID. There's over four thousand (4,000) individuals that utili… are involved as far as being disabled in the area that are involved with AID and they have requested to be placed on a Bill just like this. So, I commend the author of this or the genesis of this Bill because those are the calls that I received. I had grave concerns about adding all seniors in the state, in which the Governor wanted to put, but is a little bit more palatable when I know that the citizens that are calling me and giving me e-mails from Geneva, from St. Charles, from Elgin, throughout the area in which AID serves, are actually going to be served. So, I am in strong support of the Lady's Bill. I hope that you can find it in your heart, if you didn't vote for the last Bill, that this is a sensible Bill. It's an accountability Bill that I fully agree with. Thank you."
"Mr. Eddy. Mr. Eddy."
"Mr. Speaker, I… I want to stand in support now of the Lady's Bill, realizing that I think it could be improved, I think the improvements that she has offered in this Amendment now that we are on Third Reading of the Bill makes sense, because they do improve the Bill. I just 09500211.doc 65 STATE OF ILLINOIS 95th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 211th Legislative Day 1/17/2008 wanted to make the clarification the difference between the… the desire to have it improved and the fact that I think she has brought to us some well thought out changes that do improve what the Governor did and I… and I wanted to get that on the record and let her know that I don't disagree necessarily with what she's trying to do, but I thought it could be better. Thank you."
"The question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' Those in favor signify by voting 'yes'; those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk shall take the record. On this question, there are 86 people voting 'yes', 22 people voting 'no'. This Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Ladies and Gentlemen, the plan is that the House shall stand at ease until there's a report from the Senate on Senate action. Again, the House shall stand at ease until there's a report from the Senate regarding Senate action."
Speaker Hannig: "The House will be in order. So, we're preparing to adjourn. The Senate has taken final action on the transit Bill and so Representative Lang now moves that the House adjourn into Perfunctory Session. All in favor say 'aye'; apposed say 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it. And the House stands adjourned." 09500211.doc 66