Illinois House Floor Debate — May 20, 2009

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is no Republicans absent today. All here and ready… ready to do the work of the people."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Well, yes."

"Is that really Representative Phelps or is he under cover?"

"Okay. We wanted to make sure you were really presenting your Bill."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, this will come back, then, to the House?"

"Okay. So, this… why wasn't it just shelled?"

"Well, I understand, but I'm trying to… and… and maybe other Members can… can help. Is it even possible for the Senate to change this and send it back at this point?"

"I… Representative, our staff is fairly well convinced that that… that's not possible as far as process is concerned at this point. Let me… let me ask you, we could come back to this. Would you just take it out of the record for a minute. We'll confer with staff to make sure that that's possible. That it can come back and… and, obviously, if it is, your word is good. But we just want to make sure process wise, we're not…" 09600058.doc 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"…not in a situation."

"Would you mind doing that?"

"Thank you."

"Thank you, Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, I… I need to ask a few questions about this. I… I think this has a potential to be somewhat confusing because, for example, there are many vehicles that as far as the production is concerned, may have 09600058.doc 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 component parts or final… final manufacturing phase in Canada… Mr. Speaker, if… Mr. Speaker, could we get…"

"Just getting a little bit."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative, my concern is that in many cases, the car process, the manufacturing process, includes certain component parts that may… may be done in Canada or… I… the other day, actually, I… we were test driving… my wife and I were test driving a car, and it was a Lincoln SUV type vehicle, and the final manufacturing of that vehicle took place in Canada. But it… But it's… for everyone… I… I mean most of the vehicle was made and manufactured in the United States. Similarly, down in my area, just across the river in Indiana, there's a Toyota plant, and that Toyota plant produces vehicles that are 100 percent produced and manufactured in the United States. So, a school district, a municipality would be purchasing Toyotas, and for all the public, their perception or understanding of this, they think we're… we're buying foreign vehicles. Where we couldn't purchase a Crown Victoria, for example, for the State Police vehicle fleet because it's finished in Canada. Don't… don't you find that to be a bit problematic?" 09600058.doc 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Well, I understand the intent. I… I just… I'm very, very concerned with the unintended consequence here, because if you read the Bill, there will be situations where 90 percent of a vehicle is made in America, supporting American jobs, and the final destination if the VIN number happens to begin with a 1, a 4, or… or 5, then we can't purchase it for… even schools can't purchase it for… for use. So, the problem is, the unintended consequences, those jobs aren't being supported when a great deal of the manufacturing process and labor has taken place in the United States, and maybe just the finishing is done in another country. I… I just think your… your effort here, while well-intentioned, can cause severe, unintended consequences, even to those who you're trying to protect."

"Well…" 09600058.doc 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Well, I… I would suggest that this is too important of an issue for us not to have the final finished product at the time we vote on the Bill. And it… we would be well served to vote against this particular Bill, and wait for the final version that takes care of those concerns, rather than to vote this out, and possibly, have those unintended consequences begin to occur, and… and later try to fix something. Why don't we just do it right the first time, take the time necessary, take the Bill out of the record, work on it if you need to, even over the summer, to make sure we get this right. We cannot afford the possibility of losing more jobs in this state or nation, and this Bill could do that."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Repre… Representative, you by your own admission says… say that there may be a problem, is that correct, with the fact that, you know, for instance, if we're… we're making sure that we're purchasing what… what is considered American made cars, but you say it must be… the numbers that are in the actual language now, say that the car must be assembled in the United States. Is that correct?"

"I… I know. Mr. Speaker, can we get some…"

"…quiet, and kind of get… if we could get people to move out of the way so I can speak with the…"

"Re… And, Mr. Speaker, if the people will please pay attention to this. The Lady is asking for us to force the purchase of American made, but we're not really clear on what this American made is. It… the numbers that… the description that is in this Bill says that we must purchase vehicles assembled in the United States. Is that correct?"

"Okay. The problem I have is, for years I drove a Chevy pickup truck. Now, Chevy is, you know, Chevrolet, apple pie, all of that. And now, all of a sudden… but see, that pickup truck was actually assembled in Canada. Now, by your own admission, the problem that we're facing, and you might have to have a trailer Bill… now… now, there's no guarantee the trailer Bill will pass if this passes. Many of those parts that were used in that assembly in Canada were made in our own districts. For instance, Penn Aluminum, in my own hometown, manufactures many Ford parts, and they are stamped, and used and made right there by my own local people. They may be sent to another country, and then added to Ford, Chevrolet, all of those things that are claiming to be American made, but yet, under your Bill, the problem that the way the language reads says that it must be assembled in the United States. It doesn't, also, 09600058.doc 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 require anything at all, that the parts that are assembled in the United States, must be made in the United States. So, what you're trying to do, though good intentioned, is… is that you're trying to make sure that our American people continue to work, and the State of Illinois continues to work, you could actually be putting people out of work, and that is a problem and concern that I have. And you admitted to that just a while ago. And if we have to wait on a secondary Bill, then… then what we're looking at is… is… you know how this place works, maybe this Bill will pass and the other one won't. Now, how tragic is that to the people, and what's your answer to that?"

"And… and I understand that, but you're still moving forward with the Bill, and if you move forward with the Bill without these large things being corrected on the Bill, you could inadvertently put people out of work in a state where we're already losing so many jobs. It's a great political pop, and I don't think that's your intent, but… but just in the title alone, buy American, you're going to go out and you're going to say, yes, I want to vote for this. But the reality is that you're actually hurting American jobs by putting this in place by… by the fact that many of these vehicles that are assembled, maybe in another place, the parts are created right here in Illinois. Specifically, as I just quoted, my own hometown, 09600058.doc 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 and… and because of that, I ask you to pull this Bill from the record or… and, if you can't do that… Mr. Speaker, I do ask for a verification on this Bill, and… and I would ask that the… the Body be very aware of what we're doing here, and the concerns. The Sponsor's a wonderful Sponsor. She's very good intentioned. She has wonderful intentions, but… but I don't think by just making… okay, all numbers that begin with, and… and those are ones that are actually assembled in the United States. Are you understanding the larger process? So, Ladies and Gentlemen, please, I would encourage if the Sponsor will not take this out of the record, vote 'no'. Let's stop this. We can come back and work on this another time. Thank you very much."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, I do appreciate very much the work that you have done on this, but there are still some really serious problems with the Bill, above and beyond the fact that it is a mandate on school districts. For example, my colleague next to me has a Buick Enclave. It was put together in Mexico. You could buy a BMW, but not a Chrysler and… on many of these things. We've got Chrysler plants and GM plants that are closing down. They are already admitting that they will be importing parts from overseas, from China and India. So, when you say buy American, it is really problematic. You are putting 09600058.doc 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 municipalities and school districts in the position where they need to… to really, perhaps, not be able to get the best deal from dealerships within their own communities to keep their tax dollars within their own communities. It is really problematic when you're looking at a situation where… where Illinois has been bleeding jobs for the last several years, to do this in this climate, at this point in time, is really, really serious. The… and, in fact, the Toyota Prius, which is one of the… the most energy efficient cars on the road, is not on your list of favorite cars that people could buy. So, your excluding a factor that would be energy efficient for folks to be able to purchase… for school districts and/or municipalities. I find this really problematic, and I would a… I would echo my colleagues in asking you to pull the Bill, and continue to work on it until the… the problems that have been posed have been cleared up. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"Mr. Speaker, turn the timer off. I have an inquiry of the Chair."

"This Bill clearly restricts the use of Home Rule. This tells any municipality in the State of Illinois that has Home Rule, including the City of Chicago, what they will spend their money on, and how they will spend it. That is, in my opinion, an extreme limitation upon the Home Rule statute, and I would ask that the Chair illuminate whether or not this takes 71 votes, because to me, there's no doubt. There's no… no confusion. This absolutely takes away the power of Home Rule cities to run their own affairs. I believe it would take 71 votes."

"I… I would be…"

"…more than happy to do so. Thank you."

"I… I would, Mr. Speaker, but… Look, I… I know that the noise level in this chamber means that everybody's already made up their mind how they're going to vote. It doesn't 09600058.doc 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 make any difference what we say, or how we say it, but you know, at my age, I'm tired of talking over this din. Couldn't we have the same kind of courtesy that we extend to Speaker Madigan when you have an important Bill before this? I'm not going to talk over this din. People's minds are already made up. Why do I have to strain my vocal cords? You have the gavel. Why don't you just tell people to sit down, and utilize a little common courtesy on a Bill that, I think, has ramifications far beyond what anybody has thought, up to this point."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that. This Bill looks very good on paper. I'm no going to embarrass you. I've been through the parking lots the last three days. I had my license plate number and I went through all the parking lots. I know every car that every Member in this Body drives. I have your license plate number, and the make of your car. I'm not about to release it. I'm not about to talk about it, but 63 of you do not drive an American made car. Sixty-three of you in this chamber. And if you know how to read a VIN number, the vehicle identification number on your car, if you know how to read it, the first number in your VIN will tell you where the car was assembled. And look at this Bill. It says that a 09600058.doc 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 municipality must buy a car, its VIN number begins with a 1, or a 4, or a 5. Representative, what VIN number is the first number in the biggest selling police car in the United State? What does it begin with?"

"I will tell you, and… and if you're sponsoring this Bill, and you really believe in this Bill, then you should know this. The Ford Crown Victoria and the Chevrolet Impala, the two most popular municipally-owned cars in the country. The two most popularly owned cars in the country for driver education do not qualify under this Bill because the VIN #2 means it was assembled in Canada. You tell me, if you can't get the Ford Crown Vic, or the Chevrolet Impala that has a police interceptor engine, what police car do you want them to buy? A Toyota? A Toyota has the right VIN number."

"I have a book of 250 pages long. I'll let you read it, it's called Made in the USA. What… what police car are they going to buy? The Ford Crown Vic and the Chevrolet Impala doesn't qualify, under your Bill."

"No, no, no, no, no. Representative, let's be really honest. You're an honest person."

"Your Bill clearly says, if the VIN number begins with a 2, you can't buy it. It's not what's your choice, or what you want. You've just taken the Crown Vic and the Chevrolet Impala off the table 'cause they're assembled in Canada. So, what police car is the City of Chicago going to buy?"

"Well, I don’t know what your list says, but cities will be free to buy a Toyota. You know, your… your Bill would be better, Representative, if you really wanted to help the union worker, and I even have questions whether we can do that, the UAW's going to own 40 percent of General Motors by the end of the week. They'll be bankrupt. Chrysler's already bankrupt. You're asking municipalities and school districts to buy cars because the Federal Government has mandated they shed thousands of dealerships. They may not even be able to buy parts for some of the cars that they have, or that we're going to force them to buy. The… but the real issue here, beyond the confusion on the VIN number, why are we mandating what cities and school districts…"

"Mr. Speaker, you didn't count the time against me on my inquiry of the Chair, did you?"

"All right. Thank you. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, who is the closest to the voter? If a city buys 50 Volkswagens, or 100 Tatas made in New Delhi, or 1000 Red Star Motor cars that'll be for sale in the states in a year, made in China. Those city officials will pay for that. The voters will know that. They'll see that car every day. Why are we mandating the State of Illinois? We don’t mandate this for State of Illinois cars. We don't mandate this for IDOT trucks. We don't mandate this for State Police cars. Don't you see a little bit of hypocrisy here? Let's work on our… We're one of the largest purchasers of vehicles of all the governments combined. Let's make sure that we do it. Wouldn't hurt that if we made Legislators do it, too. But now you're telling cities… in my district, you're telling cities of 750 people what kind of car they're going to buy for a police car, and you've taken the Ford Crown Vic and the Chevy Impala off the list. And you're telling schools… When I was a young lad, dealers gave cars to schools for driver ed. They don't do that anymore. Now you're taking the two most popular cars, the Impala and the Crown Vic, off of their list. Why are we imposing, by State Law, a rule on local units of government? Let them make the decision. If they make the wrong decision, that's why you run for city council. That's why you run for the school board. That's why you run for the county board. Let them make the decision, and if they make the wrong decision that's unpopular with the voters, if they buy a Chinese Red Star car, you don't think they're going to pay for that at the 09600058.doc 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 polls? But we don't have the rules on our own purchasing requirements. We should start with the State of Illinois first, Legislator cars second; then if you want to do this, fine. I might even support it, but this Bill has some serious problems. Let's start with our own house. Let's let those people that are elected by the local taxpayers figure out what they want to do. Do you think the chairman of the… of the Cook County Board isn't going to pay a price for his highest sales tax in the country. The voters remember that. He'll pay the price. He did that, and his board did that. We don't need to mandate this on local units of government. They are capable of making up their own decision, taking the responsibility for what they do, and they will answer to the local voters. I'd vote for this, but I'm not going to be a hypocrite and stand up here and say, I want you to do something, but the state doesn't do it, and Legislators don't do it. That’s just wrong, and this Bill is not very well drafted. The most popular car, and one that I'm looking at to buy, a Ford product, the only one that isn't bankrupt, would not qualify under this Bill. It… this Bill needs additional work. The concept needs additional work. Vote 'no'."

"Inquiry of the parliamentarian. I… I see no way, the way this Bill is drafted, that there is any concurrent way that a municipality can escape this mandate. I… I see no way. They… they can't go under this regulation. To go over it, would be impossible. This is an absolute mandate on a purchasing power on a municipality. They have no recourse. We're telling them what to do. You're telling me there's a concurrent way that they can still have some regulatory authority. How? I mean how… what… what regulatory authority could remedy this mandate that strips their Home Rule power?"

"I have little choice under House Rules to accept your rule, but my parting comment to my colleagues; you pass this, you restrict the City of Chicago in their ability to purchase vehicles, or a lot of cities in the State of Illinois, you're going to hear about it."

"Inquiry of the Chair before I start my time. Is there… the only thing that's under Home Rule requirement of 71 votes a gun Bill? I really believe that. That is the only Bill that requires 71 votes is a gun Bill. How can this not overrule Home Rule? We are forcing something on a city that they may not want to have, and… I, along with 09600058.doc 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 Representative Black will… well, adhere to the parliamentarian’s ruling, but I… I really think that the only thing that requires 71 votes in this chamber is a gun Bill. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, just real quick, again. Who is required to purchase American manufactured cars under your Bill? Municipalities and school districts, and what else?"

"What about Legislators?"

"So, the two Leaders in our chamber that own cars that weren't made in the United States, they wouldn't have to."

"Why… why is this Bill needed?"

"This is where the fundamental problem with this Bill is, aside from the drafting errors that we think are in it. This does nothing, nothing to solve the unfriendly business climate that we have here in Illinois, and here in the United States, absolutely nothing. And then, I quite honestly came unglued when I got a letter from one of the union groups saying that we should pass this when they have advocated for every job killing Bill there is in here. That's why our jobs are leaving, folks. You can't tell someone to buy something because we've got a crummy place to own a business. Why don't we fix that? The letter says 09600058.doc 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 we had a 100 thousand automaker jobs in Illinois in 2008. Why is it that that's all we have? Alabama's been kicking our rear ends for the last 12 years because businesses want to go to Alabama. They don't want to come here. We're down to 60 thousand now. Why is that? They're leaving Illinois 'cause it's a crummy place to do business. Why can't we just come to that conclusion, sit down around the table, and fix what's really wrong, and not mandate that our municipalities and schools buy a Toyota because it was manufactured here and they can't buy a Crown Victoria, which sounds American because it wasn’t manufactured here. This Bill does nothing to fix the problem that is causing automotive dealers to go somewhere else. Nothing at all, and for that reason alone, we should kill this Bill, sit down and figure out how we're going to make Illinois and the United States more business friendly so our jobs stay here, and we don’t have to pass silly laws like this that falsely thinks that we're going to keep jobs here, puts the profits back in Japan. That's where the profits are going. They're not going to Princeton, Indiana, where they're making cars. The profits are going to Japan. And here we got GM and Chrysler going broke, and we're sending our money overseas. This Bill should die for that reason if nothing else. Let's sit down and fix the real problem at hand."

"Thank you, Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, is a Chevy Impala an American car? Is it an American vehicle?"

"I bought one last year in Elmhurst from a local dealer. So, you're saying that, that isn't American enough for this Bill. Is that fair to say? Because the car was 09600058.doc 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 produced in… or it was assembled in Canada? Is that an American car? It doesn’t affect American workers?"

"I assume…"

"…that the folks that are working at the Elmhurst Chevy dealer are American workers. I assume the folks in Addison, at SWD Manufacturing, who produce quite a bit of materials for vehicles are American workers, and they've laid off 40 percent of their staff because of the auto industry's collapse. If we keep doing this… now, I'm not going to be the one to explain to them that this Bill will simply put the rest of the folks on the unemployment line. But somebody else, in some other state that's producing these cars, we'll get them from there. Is that what you're trying to say?"

"Why do we want to tell police departments all across the state that the… the two cars that they rely on aren't good enough? Why are we doing that? What necessitates that?" 09600058.doc 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"So, when the Elmhurst Police Department buys cars from the Elmhurst Chevy dealer, that's not good enough? I… I don't know, really, what we're… where we're going with this. They buy in fleet discounts. They buy 10, 15 vehicles. The City of Elmhurst buys from the local Ford dealer. I'm not sure what… what part of that is… is wrong, and why we need to then take control away from local government to tell them what they should do. As Representative Black has said, we're not making the Illinois State Police do it. We're not making IDOT do it. Why are we skipping us?"

"I… I just don't think it's that simple to say that since a car was assembled in Canada that it's not an American car, that all the… a majority of the parts come from America or come from Illinois. I don't think that that's where we should be going here. To the Bill. I… I'm a little surprised that the previous speaker said it's un- American if you vote against this Bill. I'm not going to vote against my constituents, and my businesses that are trying to produce parts, that are giving good jobs with good benefits to folks that are in the manufacturing industry. Why are we chasing manufacturing jobs out of this state? I cannot understand it, since the day I've been here. I think this Bill's going to continue to do that until we don't have a manufacturing base. I would urge a 'no' vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"I would like to delegate my time to Representative Bassi."

"Thank you, Representative, Mr. Speaker. I’m not going to read the list, but this is definitely a serious, serious mandate, not only on school districts but on… but on municipalities. The school district in my area, High School District 211, is the largest high school district in the state. Through the state bid process, which is prescribed by the Procurement Code, they buy Tauruses and Impalas. They would no longer be able to do this under 09600058.doc 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 this Bill, should it pass and in fact, we would need to… to change the State Procurement Code, if it were to pass. So, not only does this Bill have implications that would really, seriously impact jobs for American workers, who do deal with American cars and cars with foreign names, and it, again, excluding things like the… the Prius, which is such an energy efficient car, this is… this is really problematic all the way around. And I just… one of the previous speakers thought it was… it was anti-American, I totally disagree. I think this is anti-Illinois. This particular Bill is going to cost us additional jobs, additional good working… jobs for Illinois workers. And I strongly urge a 'no' vote. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to direct your attention in this Body to the gallery, where we are joined today by Miss Macomb 2009, Miss Erin O'Connor. Next fall, she will be a senior at Western Illinois University, majoring in theater and dance. She is from Evergreen Park, Illinois, and her Representative is Representative Jim Brosnahan, who I saw visiting with her earlier, and he knows their family very well. Her platform is skin cancer education. She lost her mother to skin cancer, and she 09600058.doc 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 feels that's a very important cause to be using as a platform. The Miss Macomb Pageant has the highest scholarship dollars awarded of any pageant in the State of Illinois, and she is joined by the directors of the Miss Macomb Pageant, Robert and Nancy Foote. Let's give Miss Macomb 2009 a big round of applause."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A point of personal privilege."

"I would… like to ask the men and women of this Assembly to recognize a visitor that we have here. Representative Steve Olson is from Iowa and he's visiting us today." 09600058.doc 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Point of personal privilege, Mr. Speaker."

"Thank you very much. Along with Representative Ryg and myself, we would like to invite all the Members of the General Assembly to join us tomorrow on Disability Day, when we think we're going to have over a thousand people come to the Capitol to raise the awareness of disabilities in Illinois. And at 10:00, the Freedom Quest Ride is going to have 60 riders in wheelchairs who have come for a two- day run from different cities throughout the State of Illinois. They're going to be arriving by police escort to the Lincoln statue, and as many of you that could come out and welcome them to the Capitol for the rally inside the Capitol, we'd love to have you all there at 10:00 to welcome the Freedom Riders for Freedom Quest for disabilities in Illinois. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill, Senate Bill 1592, makes a change to the filing requirements for economic interest states… interest statements that is filed by all Members of government that are required to file them. And what happened in McHenry County, is we had a fire chief who was required to file an economic interest statement, and he was in a coma because he had a lung infection, and it was a drug-induced coma. He was in a coma for two months, and there was discussion at that time about waking him up so that he could, in fact, file his economic interest statement. We've also had situations where people are in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and members of our military that aren't in our state, and aren't in a position to actually file their economic interest statement. So, this simply says, if you are incapacitated for medical reasons, or other reasons of incapacitation, or you are serving in our military and you are not able to file, you are not subject to the penalties, and you can file when you so duly are able to file. So, if there's any questions, I'd be glad to answer them, but I think this is a commonsense fix to our economic interest statement law."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, I don’t… I'm not sure I know why this Bill is necessary, as IDOT says they already have full legal authority to do this."

"And… and who is your Senator?"

"Senator Schoenberg…"

"…should know that IDOT says clearly they already have the authority to do this, and in fact, are doing it, but your honest answer deserves a 'yes' vote."

"Representative, it's a lot quieter in here. Where is everybody?"

"Don't ask questions, right? Okay." Davis, W.: "I think they're… I think they're eating, Representative."

"Winner, winner, chicken dinner." Davis, W.: "Which means they'll be asleep in a minute, too."

"Yeah, okay. Hey… just real quick, a question regarding a low-speed vehicle. What… define a low-speed vehicle in the Bill. What… what does it define?" Davis, W.: "Well, the origin of the Bill is simply trying to address the ability of police officers that drive golf cart-like vehicles to be able to perform their functions on roadways. So, we're talking about smaller vehicles, like golf carts, that do not go very fast, obviously. So, that's essentially what we mean by a low-speed vehicle."

"So, under the Bill, the owner of a low-speed vehicle… are they defined by the speed at which the veh… the vehicle can travel at a maximum rate? I mean, I understand the intention for golf carts, but…" Davis, W.: "Well, how about this, Representative. According to the legislation, a low-speed vehicle is defined as 'any four-wheel vehicle with a maximum speed of greater than 20 09600058.doc 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 miles per hour, but not greater than 25 miles per hour, that conforms with the federal motor vehicle safety standards set forth in 49 C.F.R. Part 571.500'."

"Okay. So… so, they… they travel between 20 and 25 miles an hour and meet other federal regulations. And if you have one of those, then you, under this Bill, would register that, or is registration already required?" Davis, W.: "No, I think this Bill is setting forth regis… being able to register that vehicle."

"And… and is there then, like there would be for other motorized vehicles, a licensure, and a plate, and a annual registration fee?" Davis, W.: "That is correct."

"And that… at this time, they're just used and there isn't a way to register or fee them. What's the annual fee that this creates?" Davis, W.: "The annual fee?"

"Yeah." Davis, W.: "According to what I'm reading says, Senate Bill 1866 specifies that the fee for a certificate of title for a low-speed vehicle will be $30, and the registration fee will be 18."

"Okay. So, if you have one of these golf carts that you're using, and you're going to have licensed, it's going to cost you 30 bucks to register the title, and then $18 a year, just like a license or… or a fee for a car, this is on the slow-moving vehicle. Is there an estimate of how much revenue this new fee will produce?" 09600058.doc 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 Davis, W.: "Representative, I have no estimates on that in any of the information that I have."

"Is… does the legislation simply then, the fees that are collected go into general revenue, or are they put in a dedicated fund? I mean, this isn't like…" Davis, W.: "Well, I… I… I think they're treated just the same way in which the vehicle and registration fees for the cars that we drive are treated. So, whatever ever the funds that are designated that those fees go into, this is treated the same way."

"I been… I've been hearing a lot about a capital Bill and… and revenue for a capital Bill. This isn't part of the… the revenue for a capital Bill is it, or could it be, or is this…" Davis, W.: "That… that's not my intent, Sir."

"It's not your…" Davis, W.: "And just to maybe clarify your previous question, I have here, it says, the title and registration flee… fees, including those set forth in Senate Bill 1866, are distributed to various funds pursuant to Section 2-119 of the Vehicle Code."

"That clears it up. Absolutely clears it up for me. One… one final question, is there any stipulation in this regarding whether these slow-moving vehicles to be titled are… have to be American made?" Davis, W.: "There is no stipulation in this legislation in reference to that." 09600058.doc 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Okay. So, you're not promoting the purchase of foreign golf carts, but under this Bill, that would be possible and we wouldn't… we wouldn't be restricting the purchase." Davis, W.: "Well, I… I guess that would be up to the purchaser."

"Thank you, Representative. I appreciate your… your answers, and it would be interesting to know if there is a projection on revenue for this type of a vehicle, what… what that might produce, and if…" Davis, W.: "Well, ironically enough, even though I don't have a projection for you as I'm continuing to read, the largest portion of those fees that are collected, will go into the Road Fund. That should make you extremely happy."

"Well, as long as we… we cease and desist the raid of that fund, you're right, it would make me happy. Thank you."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?" Davis, W.: "Absolutely."

"I know that this Bill, right here, is just regarding… regarding the license, but I've had a lot of requests for this over the last two or three years for the low-speed motor vehicles within my district, because it's a commuting district, and they would like to take these just to train stations. It…” Davis, W.: “(Inaudible)” 09600058.doc 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

“Yeah. In all cases, they were told that they could not use these vehicles within the different towns in my district. So, I'm wondering, in this here it says, proposed rules…" Davis, W.: "Well, I mean, I guess…"

"Are you familiar with that?" Davis, W.: "…I guess, relative to that, for instance, because these vehicles don't travel fast, there has to be specific speed limit postings for them, maybe specific placards that designate that these roads can be used by low-speed vehicles. I mean, I think it's… I think the legislation is trying to figure out a way in which the Secretary of State can provide for the use of these type of vehicles on various roadways. Now, how that interacts with local municipalities, I'm not sure. But I'm sure it'll be in a manner done so that they're safe, and that the individuals that… that drive these vehicles will be deemed as part of the… you know, the motoring… the motoring public, if you will, so they… they will be…"

"Right." Davis, W.: "…safe."

"So, does the Secretary of State monitor the rules for that, or is the municipality allowed to do that? Is that in your Bill anywhere? I'm wondering is this opening up the use of these to more individuals within towns." Davis, W.: "Well, it says here, as I'm being told, it's at the discretion of the municipality."

"Oh, it is. Okay. All right. Thank you very much." Davis, W.: "Thank you." 09600058.doc 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, does the Illinois Vehicle Code kick in when you take… when an individual takes one of these vehicles out on the road, or when you're un… anywhere under operation? ‘Cause the point is, I mean, you obviously are not going to be charged with speeding, but when you get behind the wheel of one of these vehicles, are you subject to the same prohibitions and penalties as anybody else would on the… with their cars…" Davis, W.: "I'm…"

"…that they drive on a daily basis?" Davis, W.: "I'm told, yes."

"So, you can be charged with driving under the influence if you're behind one of these low-speed vehicles?" Davis, W.: "I’m going to say, yes."

"Of… well, are we… are you sure, or is that just a…" Davis, W.: "Well, we're… we're searching."

"Okay… and, you know, the… if you are driving on a suspended license, and you are… had a suspended license, and you're driving one of these low… one of these auto… one of these vehicles, would you be subject to the Class A, driving under a suspended license section of the Code?" Davis, W.: "Well, part… part of my analysis, Representative, and maybe this somewhat answers your question, it says, Senate Bill 1866 provides that the operators of low-speed vehicles operated on streets, must have a driver's license, 09600058.doc 51  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 presumably valid driver's license, and are subject to the mandatory insurance provisions of the Illinois Vehicle Code."

"But are they subject to the other penalties, prohibitions, and restrictions under the Illinois Vehicle Code?" Davis, W.: "The operation of a low-speed vehicle upon any street is subject to the provisions of Chapter 11, of this Code, concerning the rules of the road and applicable local ordinances."

"All right. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, a couple of questions that were already asked that I was looking at here, but I do have a concern 'cause I did receive a letter from a constituent of mine who has the EV plates, electric vehicle plate already, and they get a special fee, why are you removing that fee?" Davis, W.: "Why are we removing which fee?"

"You know, you're actually raising it for the electric vehicle plate." Davis, W.: "Is an electric vehicle a low-speed vehicle by this definition, Sir?"

"Correct. Because in your… in the comments that we have here it says, removes the requirement of the Secretary of State issue distinctive license plates for electric vehicles and adds requirement… issued distinctive license plates for low-speed vehicles. They already have a 09600058.doc 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 distinction. They already have a reduced-fee plate, so why are you changing that?" Davis, W.: "Honestly, Representative, I don’t know. This is a set…"

"What's a head weigh, Representative?" Davis, W.: "About eight pounds."

"There you go. Good answer." Davis, W.: "Yeah, thank you."

"Well, there… that's one of my concerns. I, obviously, have a constituent with this. Secondly, are these vehicles going to be required to have a slow-moving vehicle sign on the back of it?" Davis, W.: "I'm told, yes."

"So, in… they're going to insure… incur extra charges for that sign and the sign that says… what was the other one they were requiring to put on the back of it, not to exceed… be in roads of 30 miles an hour or faster." Davis, W.: "Repeat that, Sir."

"I believe in the Bill, it states they have to also have another sign on the back of the vehicle that says they can't on roads with speed limits higher than 30 miles an hour. I'm sorry, 25 miles an hour." Davis, W.: "Yes, they do need that designation. They do need a sticker…"

"How many fees…" Davis, W.: "…that says so."

"…are we putting on these vehicles now, then?" Davis, W.: "I'm… I'm sorry."

"How many fees are we putting on this vehicle?" 09600058.doc 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 Davis, W.: "How many fees are we putting on them?"

"Yeah. You got a fee for the plate, fee for the two signs. I mean, what… what… how many fees is… what's that… I think the question was asked of you before. What's the revenue income on this now?" Davis, W.: "Well, I don't know what the revenue will generate… what revenue will be generated from this, Representative. I don't know."

"Who… whose Bill is this in the Senate?" Davis, W.: "Senator Sullivan."

"Is he your Senator?" Davis, W.: "Excuse me?"

"Is he your Senator?" Davis, W.: "No, he's not."

"Okay. Well, we had that question earlier, too, and I… and we had an honest answer about why she didn't know why that Senator was having this Bill. So, do you know why this Senator's doing this Bill?" Davis, W.: "Well, I believe this Bill was an initiative of the Secretary of State's Office."

"Okay. So, he's just carrying it for the Secretary of State?" Davis, W.: "Correct."

"All right. Thank you, Representative. To the Bill. I have a few issues on this. I… I find it odd that we're trying to use vehicles that use less energy, use less gasoline. We use them in… in the colleges and in other forms, and now we're going to add more fees for just 09600058.doc 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 another revenue source. So, I think this needs to be better thought out. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, I don't know that we necessarily disagree on this. I just want to make sure that everyone in this chamber knows what they're voting on. This is just golf carts, right?" Davis, W.: "Well, low-speed… I won't classify it as just a golf cart, but it is a low-speed vehicle, as designated by this definition."

"But it does not apply to 4-wheel all-terrain vehicles?" Davis, W.: "Well, it applies for a vehicle… does it apply to an all-terrain vehicle?"

"Yes, 4-wheel all-terrain vehicle." Davis, W.: "I believe that was asked in committee, and I don’t think that this does."

"What about these small, motorized wheelchair carts? Some of them have three wheels, some of them have four wheels, and we seen them driving around town a lot with disabled people that go out to supermarkets and… and quite honestly, they're going very slow, a lot of times on busy highways." Davis, W.: "Well, I don't… I don't think so, and the reason I say that, Representative, is that… is that the vehicle must conform with the federal motor vehicle safety standards, and I don't think that they're… they conform to that."

"But a golf cart does?" 09600058.doc 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 Davis, W.: "I'm sorry."

"But a golf cart does?" Davis, W.: "Well, with… again, that's why I didn't want to classify it as a golf cart. It's a vehicle that conforms to that federal standard, which means I… I think it has to have seat belts, has to have a odometer, or speedometer on it, but based on the federal standards."

"So, if I'm…" Davis, W.: "Turn signals…"

"…hearing you correctly, this will not apply to golf carts, where…" Davis, W.: "I didn't… again, I didn't say golf carts."

"No, I know that, but I'm trying to clarify it so that everybody knows what they're voting for, and I don't think that they do." Davis, W.: "Oh, I… I guess it does not apply to a golf cart."

"So… I guess I'm having trouble with what we need this for. We have golf carts that cities are having problems with, with safety. We have, as I said, the motorized wheelchairs that… that from a safety standpoint, I think, needs some attention given to, but none of those apply, but yet, you're bringing a Bill forward…" Davis, W.: "Well, again, you… you say…"

"…and we're not quite sure what vehicle it applies to." Davis, W.: "Well, it applies to a vehicle with a maximum speed of 20 miles per hour…"

"What is that vehicle? I'm sorry, Representative." Davis, W.: "…and that conforms with a… with the federal motor… motor vehicle safety standards." 09600058.doc 56  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"I'm looking for a way to have… to support your Bill. I just don’t know of any vehicle that goes 20 to 25 miles an hour that's not a golf cart, that's not an all-terrain vehicle, and I'm just wondering what this statute would apply to." Davis, W.: "Well, one thing that was mentioned in committee, Representative, were the types of vehicles that police departments use on the roadways for meter maids and things of that nature. That was one thing that was mentioned in committee. That… that could be a type of vehicle that this applies to."

"I'm going to continue to listen to the debate, Representative. I'm not quite sure most the people in this chamber know what they're voting for, or against, or what here, and we're trying to help you out, but I'll continue to listen to the debate."

"Will the Sponsor yield briefly?"

"Thank you. Will, Representative Myers and myself had a Bill earlier this year, House Bill 2455, which is already on the Governor's desk that does, I think, exactly this, already. Now, it deals with the change of the definition 'of non highway vehicle' to include… let me look here… all- terrain vehicles, golf carts, neighborhood vehicles, off way… off-highway motorcycle. I'm not exactly sure what this does that that already doesn't do. The interesting thing here is, I believe, Senator Sullivan was the Sponsor of both Bills, and my only thought here is, maybe we could… 09600058.doc 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 and, I'm not telling you what to do with your Bill, but maybe we could pull this from the record and figure out exactly what's going on, because 2455 is already on the Governor's desk. And it's the exact same concept that you're talking about, which is allowing municipalities and local units of government to permit, you know, something less than a car to get around town. And I just don't know what the distinction is here." Davis, W.: "Well, I can only assume that if you say that Senator Sul… Senator Sullivan is the Sponsor of both Bills, that apparently he knows or says that there is a distinction to be made between the two, which is why he decided to move and push both Bills."

"Yeah, well, that… that's actually a pretty good point. I mean, I would assume he would know the difference, too, I guess. I… I just… I can't figure what the difference is. I… I mean, I don't know… I don’t know what the difference between your Bill is, which is a low-speed, right, vehicle?" Davis, W.: "Low-speed… low-speed vehicle."

"And a neighborhood vehicle, because that's the same… I mean, that's sort of the same thing." Davis, W.: "Well, I'm… I'm not familiar with the first Bill that you mentioned, so I don't know if it's about licensing and registration. I'm… I'm not sure if that's what that Bill did or…"

"Well, I… I guess I just…" Davis, W.: "But then again, we could also say if this Bill passes and it does get to the Governor's desk that, 09600058.doc 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 obviously, the Governor has the ability to keep one and veto the other. That's… you know."

"Well, I know. That's… I think what I'd like to do. But I'd like to make sure that both our Bills pass. At the end of the day, Representative Davis, I mean, I would, I… I guess as a Gentleman, I'd ask you if you'd pull the Bill just so we can get an answer and clarification. I'm not asking you to not do it today, or come back in five minutes. Just give us some time to figure out what the difference is here." Davis, W.: "Well, the ability to come back with this Bill is dependent upon the Speaker, and I don't know what else is on our Calendar for today…"

"Not much." Davis, W.: "…whether or not… well… whether or not we'll be able to come back to this one or not, that I'm not sure about. And again, because I have been asked to carry this for someone, I don't want to risk the opportunity of not being able to move this Member's Bill."

"Okay. Well, there really, quite frankly, is not much on the Calendar. We have something like nine days left, but I… you're the Sponsor. I respect you. So, that's your decision. I just… I, quite frankly, don't know what the difference between the Bill that's already on the Governor's desk is and this one. So, I…" Davis, W.: "Well…"

"…probably will vote 'no', but… but thank you for your consideration." Davis, W.: "Absolutely." 09600058.doc 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes. I sit on this committee, and I wanted to… I… I stand in support of this Bill. I… perhaps Representative Rose has a good point. I'm not familiar with the other Bill that he's speaking of, but these are not golf carts. They're specialized vehicles, and I think the description of a golf cart kind of describes the size of it, the look of it. They're a specialized all… not an all-terrain vehicle, but a utility vehicle that the City of Chicago uses for meter maids, and also maintenance workers. They're lower cost and they… for the purchase of these, and they are energy efficient. So, this was a specific need that was brought forward to the Secretary of State. It was an initiative of the Secretary of State, and I thought in committee we addressed all the concerns about that these are roadworthy and that they meet the federal highway standards, and that was why we passed the Bill out of committee unanimously, I believe. So, as I said, I… I rise in support of it. I think it… it, perhaps, is a very small need, but yet, it is a need that was addressed in committee, and that was why I would support the Bill."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Senate Bill 1801 clarifies the hours of operation of a… a polling place, which is established for early voting, including hours when they have to be open for a holiday. And I ask for your 'aye' vote."

"Point of personal privilege."

"Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, today is Skip Saviano's birthday. So, that's why it's been a little 09600058.doc 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 quiet. You always know there's going to be food back there. So, if you haven't anything to eat, feel free to have some food, and take it back in the appropriate areas, but happy birthday, Skip Saviano. Thank you."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Inquiry of the Chair."

"Since you have just taken the Chair, and the hour of noon has just hit, could we take a five minute recess for brushing and flossing since you know the importance of that?"

"I plan to use that. I just didn't want you to call any really important Bill while I was back there."

"And I do."

"So, thank you."

"A point of personal privilege."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, when I was introducing Miss Macomb a little while ago, I failed to mention that Representative Renée Kosel was a judge of that contest, and so she had very familiar… with the… Miss Macomb. And so, there's a three-way connection here to Miss Macomb from Macomb, Evergreen Park, and the judge from Will County."

"Well, thank you very much for the kind compliments. I will tell you that this is a very talented young lady, and I expect to see her go far in the Illinois, and, hopefully, the Miss America Pageant, too. She was very, very impressive."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We've had this Bill before, last year, actually, where it got hung up on the rulemaking procedure, passed out of this… of the House unanimously. This is a great Bill where all parties are in agreement both business community and labor. It's a wellness Bill. It… it provides coverage in insurance policies for wellness, and I think today where we're trying to find a way to cut costs, it's always better to try to insure someone for trying to keep well, than having to pay later 09600058.doc 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 when they're sick. So, I think this is a… a great Bill, and I urge everyone in this chamber to vote for it."

"Thank you, Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Senate Bill 1922 is creating a 211 system statewide for… it'll allow our residents for public accessed to information, and referral to health and human services information if we're going to have a natural/non-natural disaster in the state. Currently, right now, we do have a pilot program of 3… or 211 in three cities. That pilot has gone very well. And the… it's our opinion that this should be extended statewide. We would join numerous other states in our nation that also have this system. I would ask for its adoption."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, an inquiry of the Chair."

"When you need help, I would suggest that you dial 211. We'll be… I… I don't know who answers, but I know they'll be glad to help you, if they can. Now, if you're lucky, it'll be somebody on our side of the aisle that answers. If you're unlucky, it'll probably be Lou Lang who will not be of that much help, quite frankly."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield?"

"Thank you. Representative, I'm pretty sure you answered the committee concerns, but I'm still a little puzzled as to how IDOT can escape additional costs. Where will they… it says, whenever possible, and maybe that's the escape clause there for additional costs. In situations where they don't have compost, then they don't have to apply this… this statute?"

"Well, that… that would be… that would be exciting if we…"

"…actually saved money on something in the state agencies. Well, I appreciate the answer to the question. As long as it's that permissive, I can see where the costs would not be there. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, I notice our analysis says that the current law requires agencies to give consideration and preference now. Is that not working? Why would you lock them into doing something that has a lot of different areas that might be contentious?"

"So, what if you cut down trees that are infected with something that would be, you know, if you move it to a different area, you're opening up the possibility of those areas getting infected? I mean, there's a lot of reasons why you do things…"

"…that aren't necessarily conducive to what you're trying to legislate."

"So, what was the genesis of this Bill? Did you decide that the agencies weren't abiding by give due consideration, or did somebody come with you and say, gee, we ought to do this? And so, to appear environmental, we're doing it because, I mean, at some point, it seems that we over legislate everything."

"Well, I notice even things have changed with the current economy. One of the things as far as recycling has changed is that recyclers have no place to put things. They don't get paid for them anymore, then sometimes they have to pay people to take the recycled goods, and I think that when you keep on legislating, you're opening yourself up to different issues, particularly, with the current economy. So, I thought the current law was pretty good, and I'm not quite sure what to do about this one, but I think it over legislates."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill.”

“The Lady is certainly well-intentioned. I had no idea where I got… will get this mulch. We only mow the grass along our state highways twice. We used to it four times. We only do it twice now, and that's if you're lucky. We don't pick up the grass clippings, we just leave them lay. If we do landscaping along the highways, the branches and trees are usually left there. People will come pick them up, in some cases, otherwise they just decompose on their 09600058.doc 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 own. One year ago this month, IDOT did not have enough money to pick up dead animals along the roadway. One year ago this month, the IDOT personnel and trucks were ordered to stay in the garage. They didn't have enough money to buy gasoline, nor diesel fuel, to go out and pick up dead animals on the roadside, or do any roadside maintenance. One year ago this month. This past winter we had to pass a multimillion dollar supplemental appropriation because IDOT didn't have enough money to buy rock salt. It may be a good idea to use mulch, but in my travels back and forth, I don't know how IDOT, or other state agencies would do it. I… I don't think IDOT has a mulch yard. My municipality does. We pick up yard waste. They turn it into mulch. Those who live in that municipality can go pick it up and use it if they want to do so. I don't know how IDOT's going to get in the mulch business without additional cost, or additional personnel, or additional vehicles. You have to have equipment to turn the lawn waste over, and over, and over, or you don't get mulch. So, I don’t think the Bill's necessary. I'm… I'm sure it's a… a fine piece of environmental legislation. It certainly will look good on your environmental resume, but in the bottom line, as Representative Mulligan has already said, they can do this now. It's… they have the permission to do it if that's what they want to do. I think this kind of takes it into a… a mandate situation, and I don't know why we'd want to put anymore mandates on… on IDOT when, in the last year, we've had to do two supplementals just to keep trucks on the road, and rock salt in the garages. So, I may be the 09600058.doc 70  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 only 'no' vote, and probably will be, but this is just an added duty, responsibility, or job description that IDOT will do in… in some point in the future, that they are not now, in my opinion, equipped to do, staffed to… staffed to do, and I don’t think it's their job, quite frankly, to do it. So, I intend to vote 'no'."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to a point of personal privilege."

"In the gallery, on the west side over here, I'd like to recognize a school group from my district. It's the Williamsfield fifth grade, with parents, and sponsors, and 09600058.doc 71  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 teacher. Would you make them welcome, if they'd stand, please?"

"Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, in your comments you mentioned that today, under current law, you have to give reason to obtain an absentee ballot. Is that correct?"

"And you mentioned a couple of those reasons. Could… could you be a little bit more descriptive as to what… what reasons are… suffice today? You mentioned military…"

"So… so, currently, the intent is to allow people who, for whatever reason on voting day, which… which is a, in our democracy, obviously, a very, very important day. One that we should all revere as… as something dear to… to our democ… Election Day, and you have to… you have to have good reason as the current law stands, not to participate on Election Day, and… and those reasons are enumerated. So, 09600058.doc 73  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 what you're attempting to do is… is to allow folks just simply, for whatever reason they want to, if their… if it's just inconvenient, if it… they… they're going to be shopping, if… if they… no reason, whatsoever. Is that… is that the intent of your legislation?"

"Well, then it's just as I stated. This… this allows any individual, for whatever reason they want to, to… to vote early, no good cause, just… It's kind of a… a total… a total neglect of the idea that we have an Election Day."

"Why… why is this necessary, when today individuals with a legitimate reason can obtain an absentee ballot… has there been a… in your… in your area, in your district, has there been an outcry from the public regarding the fact that the current statutory allowances for absentee voting aren't good enough? Representative, have you had a lot of calls? Is your phone ringing off the hook? Have you got all kinds of people who haven't been able to get an absentee ballot at this point?"

"You know, Representative, I… I cannot think of in, and I haven't been here as long as some folks have been here, obviously, but in seven years that I've been in the General Assembly, I don’t believe I've received one single phone call, one concern at a town meeting, one example of this being a major problem for people to be able to be at the polls on Election Day, unless they have some type of reason. Do you have any concern at all that… that you're beginning to deteriorate the… the real importance of the Election Day by… by having… having no reason whatsoever? Do you have any concern about that at all?"

"I… I don't know how it expands the voting pool. I don't think there's anything in here that changes who can vote, or expands that. I don’t understand the answer that you gave me. It absolutely makes no sense to… to the question that I asked you. This… this isn't about expanding the eligibility of voters, is it? I mean, you're not changing the age. You're not changing who can vote. You're just changing how they obtain…"

"…an absentee ballot."

"Okay. Which is different than astn… expanding eligibility. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I think 09600058.doc 75  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 it's important that you pay particular attention to the intent of this legislation. Election Day is Election Day. We have statutes that allow for legitimate purpose, absentee ballots. To change the statute will reduce the number of people who may wait to hear to the last minute, public comments, issues related. It… it takes away from Election Day and the importance of that day as the day that we exercise one of the most sacred rights we have in our democracy. Thank you."

"Oh, first of all, Mr. Speaker, an inquiry of the Chair."

"The timer wasn't on for Roger Eddy, why is it on for me?"

"It was on? I was watching. It wasn't on. He talked for eight minutes. I mean if this Bill is a good Bill, then I shouldn't have to have any excuse for how long I can talk, I can just talk, but you're going to cut me off, right?"

"That's one thing I like about you, Mr. Speaker, you're a fair man. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I can 09600058.doc 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 understand why some of you will support this Bill, and it certainly doesn’t diminish my respect for those of you who do. In 1997, in November, my wife and I flew to Paris, France. We rented a car, and we drove from Paris, France to Normandy. And on Veteran's Day of 1997, when my wife and I drove to Normandy, we went through St. Mere Eglise and some of the places that we've all read about during the invasion of France in World War II. We visited the American cemetery above Omaha Beach. I would give you the name, but I can't pronounce the French pronunciation. If you ever get an opportunity to visit that, I would suggest that you do that, and Veteran's Day, there’s no better day than to visit that cemetery, and look upon rows of hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds of white crosses, and Stars of David. Several thousand Americans buried in that cemetery in France, above Omaha Beach, and there are a number of those cemeteries around the world. But on June 6, 1944, my father's generation landed in France, and eventually, liberated the world from one of the worst, God- awful dictators the world, I hope, will ever see, and many of them didn't come back home. And as I stood in that cemetery, all I could think of as I stood there many, many years later, and I've been able to enjoy a life that they, who are buried there, gave me and one of the most precious heritages they gave and protected for me was my right to vote. I've never taken that right to vote lightly. I've never missed an election, and I'm bothered by what's happened in this country. Stand in that cemetery and think with me, imagine in your mind, if you will, look at those 09600058.doc 77  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 crosses. Look at those thousands, and thousands of young men who died that day on June 6, and then explain to me why in the subsequent years we have to stand here on this floor, year after year, and figure out a way to make it easier to vote. Don't put yourself out. Don't make any effort. If it's too cold, or too wet, or too hot, don't worry about voting. Vote by mail, vote by Internet. Vote however you want, but don’t make any effort. That's what they sacrificed for? That's what American history is all about? So that you could just vote however is the easiest way for you to vote? I don't understand it. I think American history is being demeaned, and diminished, and ignored, when all we worry about is how we can make it easier to vote. Well, one way is to say, if you want to vote absentee, you don’t need a reason. Just do it, whatever makes you feel good. Visit that cemetery. Look it up on Google. Try and have some remembrance and semblance of American history from the Revolutionary War on. That right to vote was not given to you easily. People sacrificed their lives, their fortune, gave up their sacred honor so that we can vote, and here I stand on the House Floor in 2009, and out of all I hear is, well, let's make it easier to vote. Let's just do whatever we can. This should be no sacrifice, this should be no effort. Do it the easiest way you want. That is an insult to the memory of my father's generation, and I won't support that insult." 09600058.doc 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"To the Bill, Mr. Speaker. I think that as well- intentioned as this may be, the… the historical position on this is crocked. If you're infirmed, disabled, you're going to be out of town for a verified absence, absolutely, we want you to participate. The problem with this is, it opens the door… it opens the door to fraud. Our state doesn't exactly have the best track record in this area, I 09600058.doc 81  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 might add, but you talk about handing an open… you know, just to hand over the election to a precinct captains to go walk out, walk in your home and go ahead and execute that ballot while you're sitting there, I don't know why anybody would support this. The protections are in place if you're infirmed, you're disabled, you're legitimately out of town. We want you to participate. This doesn't make any sense. The only… I don't understand why… why we would open this door, given the history of this state. I have zero comfort level with it, and I… I agree with virtually all the people who just spoke on the matter. I mean, I think Representative Fritchey was eloquent. Representative Black was eloquent. Representative Eddy was eloquent. This is a bad idea. I would urge a 'no' vote."

"Will the Sponsor yield, please?" 09600058.doc 83  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Representative, currently, we have laws in the state… in the United States, to allow people to vote 30 days prior to the election, and certainly, if I want to go shopping on Election Day, I can choose to also vote the 29 days before Election Day. But I have a question for you, I voted early the last two elections, and I've gone with my daughter, or I've gone with my son, and I'm wondering if you could tell me why I'm not allowed, as a mother, to assist my daughter in voting?"

"Yes."

"I've gone with her for the last two elections to vote early, prior to Election Day, and the election judges won't allow me to help her vote. I’m wondering why that is, and…"

"…might there be a reason for an election judge to say to a mother or father, no, you're not going to walk up to that voting booth and help your child vote."

"Yes, she is. You know, we have laws in this state that say as… as a parent, I really… am… am not allowed to have undue influence over taking my mother, or my aunt, or my sister, and my son to go vote, and when you allow absentee ballots to go into the home without any kind of reason for why someone wants a ballot delivered to their home, there's 09600058.doc 84  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 going to be undue influence. We're trying to avoid that, and I think we've done a really good job here in the last couple of elections by saying, 30 days prior to an election you can go vote early. You may be in the hospital. You may have other things to do on Election Day, but you have the ability for… for three weeks to go vote early, at your convenience, all throughout the State of Illinois. I don't understand why it's so difficult to understand why, when the ballots are sent to someone's home, there could be undue influence by a parent, by a child over an invalid… mother or father, over a child that just doesn't want to vote. There… there is a… there is a perception that there may be fraud at that point. To the Bill, Mr. Speaker. I think we've solved a lot of the issues in this country by allowing for early voting, and I think we… we've come to a point where that early voting is very important in this country, but to not have a reason… if you haven't voted in the 20… in the 23, or 24, or 5… 25 days prior to the election, on Election Day, to not have a reason, I think, we're opening up the door for undue influence by a family member or a… or a union, or a… or a precinct captain, or a precinct committeeman to influence people who… who may be in a position of needing to be influenced. I have two more questions, Representative Jakobsson. Is this… is this ethics reform?"

"Is this… is this a Bill about transparency?" 09600058.doc 85  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"I think this Bill opens up the door for, not transparency, it opens up the door for a backwards step on ethics. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill."

"You know, I wasn't sure if I was going to speak on the Bill or not, and… and I do greatly respect two people on the other side of the aisle, and the divergence, or their… the difference in their opinion. But I thought about where I was this time last year, and as we try to prepare to help the Iraqis roll up for elections. We define success as the peaceful transition of power via elections, and our number on challenge was how to ensure ballot integrity, how to ensure that the… that the Iraqi citizens would say, yes, we voted, we spoke, and we accept these… this ballot turnout because we know it's legitimate. And… and my concern is, as I look at this, is we would never have went to them and said, here's how to do it. Let people vote any way they want with whatever reasons. There had to be a system and a structure, and if we would never go to them and say, do it this way, then why would we roll back to this point. And… and for those who say, and this is a valid… valid, valid point, for those who say, well, it's too hard to vote. 09600058.doc 86  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 Those individuals risked life and death, and had a 70 percent voter turnout. So, don't tell me it can't be done, and please, think about the consequences here. We would not go to a… a merging democracy and institute these practices. Why in the world would we institute them here? Thank you."

"To the Bill. You know, I've been around for the motor voter legislation, the early voting, and everybody said, these are good, transparent ways to encourage… get more people on the voting rolls, and that's fine, but I think what we've seen over… since those laws has been a greater incident of fraud that's happened in our electoral process. We had… yes, we had historic turnout last election with the early voting, but we are also seeing an historic investigations of voter fraud that are being conducted in every state in the Union. And we've basically, every time we loosen these requirements, we're creating a cottage industry for a lot of these public interest groups, ACORN 09600058.doc 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 for one, to perpetuate this type of fraud. So, I can't in good conscience vote for this, and I would recommend a 'no' vote."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My name was used in debate. To the Bill. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I won't berate the issue, but somebody on your side of the aisle as they are wont to do say, well, some… well, we must be afraid of democracy over here. Well, how could you possibly oppose this? Someone else said, well, this will boost voter turnout. Someone else said, this opens up democracy. I didn't know it was closed. I had no idea it was closed. But none of you mentioned one thing. You really want to… you really want to increase voter turnout? You really want to do that? I've got a Bill on the Calendar. Have a Bill on the Calendar that says we'll have an open Primary in the State of Illinois. Want… if you want to increase turnout, tell a Representative on your side of the aisle, withdraw a hostile Amendment, let's vote on it. You really want to open up voting in the State of Illinois? Let's go to an open Primary. Why in the world do we have to… we're one of the few states left where you have to declare your Party to vote in a Primary Election. Now, I've heard a lot of good reasons for that, but you and I know what the real reason is. The Party bosses get in the file and see if you voted Republican or Democrat. You don't believe me? I'll bet in the federal trial, it comes 09600058.doc 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 out that the Blagojevich administration… how many Republicans do you figure they hired? You really want to do this, Representative, amend your Bill and go to an open Primary. A Bill I've carried for six years that your side of the aisle kills every single year. It got out of committee thanks to a couple of Democrat votes. Hostile Amendment filed on it to make sure that you wouldn't get the right to vote on an open Primary. You want to take democracy into the 21st century? Vote for an open Primary. Most of you over there don't even want to be counted on that. You're all staring at your computers, all looking at the ceiling. Open Primary, I didn't have any idea that was out here. Gosh, I… I'd never thought of that. You never thought of that because your Party bosses won't let you vote on it, and your Party bosses don't want it. And there are Party bosses on my side of the aisle who don't want it either, but the people you… we represent do. So, don't give me all this nonsense about, well, we'll open up democracy. When did it close? Well, we'll make it easier. How much easier can you make it? You want to boost voter turnout and put the people back in charge of elections? Vote for an open Primary. I look forward to 35 Democrat cosponsors on my open Primary Bill, but I won't hold my breath."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, could you once again, before we close out this debate, repeat right now what the law is? What exactly you can go in and vote early, vote absentee ballot for? What the… what those requirements are right now?"

"All… all sensible, legitimate reasons, correct?"

"Would you say that? Yes. Representative, I… I can go down the whole veterans and things that everybody else has done, but what I'd really like to know is… is that… do you 09600058.doc 92  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 believe it is important for a voter… a voter to be as informed as possible at the time of their voting?"

"Certainly. Then why in the world whenever they are, prior to an Election Day when certain things might come to light, towards the end of the election more information be found out where you can be a better informed voter would you go ahead and say, well, for whatever reason… and I understand the importance of those reasons listed, and if you wanted to add to those one by one, I could understand that, but just swinging the door open and encouraging people to vote when they're maybe not as informed as they should, and could possibly be by waiting 'til the last day, that day, the Election Day, to vote so you are encouraging uninformed voters to vote, correct?"

"Rep… Representative, let me ask you this…"

"Let… Yeah, there are…"

"Rep… Representative…"

"…let me ask you this. Have you learned more today than you did yesterday? Are there certain things in life that you've learned?"

"Today."

"Did you… have you learned something today that you didn't know yesterday?"

"Uh huh. So, every day that we can… can wait until people get the opportunity to vote on that very last day, they can be as well informed as they possibly can be, and we can encourage them to do that thing, which might take a little effort on their part to actually go in and be an important aspect of what we consider here in the United States, an informed voter. Not a, oh, let's say a drive-up window voter, where I can ask for it right now, and get it right now, and just throw it out there, and not have to really think about what I'm doing. Ma'am, I'm…"

"No, no. Yes."

"No, it is. It is changing for that individual person the time frame in which it allows them that opportunity to think about one of the most important things that they're going to be doing that year, which is electing those elected people who are going to serve them, either in this Body, in their local bodies, or in the bodies in the United States. And I'm going to tell you, Ma'am, that it's very important, I think, to be as well-informed as possible, and… and you don't agree with that?" 09600058.doc 94  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Yes, and I'm… I have confidence in the voters, too, but who's to say that the events that would occur don't happen on a Monday, or a Saturday, or a Sunday before the election on Tuesday. But we went ahead and thought, well, just for convenience sake, I'm going to go ahead and run and throw that ballot in there, and then all of a sudden, something comes out on that Monday, and then you… then for four, or two, or the election period set forth, that person made a terrible mistake."

"It does. It does not change the time frame of the voting public at all in the general over… overall, but for the individual, it does. It… it'll… it shortens their time to consider exactly what they shortens their time to consider exactly what they should vote, and how they should vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill. Folks, it don't… don't let your… let all of yourselves be fooled by the fact that, okay, this is a more convenient thing and we'll just be able to pop out. What this does is, it discourages people from taking the time to truly consider, and then wait until the right time to cast their vote, after all of the evidence has been heard on that day, the Election Day, which is so vitally important. Thank you." 09600058.doc 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, you had indicated in the debate that the County Clerks' Association is in favor of this, or neutral? Or, I'm sorry. In the debate, I believe one of 09600058.doc 96  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 the Representatives said that they are in support or neutral. Can you clarify for us where the county clerks' position is?"

"Is a proponent?"

"Do… do you know that your county clerk just called us and said that that is incorrect?"

"No, no, no, no, no, no."

"That is the position of the County Clerks' Association."

"Okay. So, I'm just trying to update information that you might have that is wrong, that we're hearing word from the county clerks that the County Clerks' Association is… is neutral on the Bill, and they are not proponents. Secondly, we had someone on or side of aisle that… that many of us would consider a hero, talk to you about what the UN's position is in regard to this very particular legislation. How do you answer him when he says that the United Nations, which is all… many would consider a very liberal organization, would never allow this to happen in a fledgling country that would we're trying to help turn into a democracy? How… how do you answer that?" 09600058.doc 97  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Do… do you go by stability? The voter turnout is that what you call stability because in Iraq people had to go through many things to get to vote with the potential of dying, and in that country, the United Nations would not allow this piece of legislation to move forward. Don't you agree that the United Nations is a very liberal organization?"

"Thank… thank you. To the Bill. Ladies and Gentlemen, I… I don’t know what else we can say about this, but the County Clerks are neutral, and we just received word from them and… and when the United Nations, who's trying to help the voter process throughout the world, would not allow this to be used in a country we're trying to foster voters' rights, then why in the world do we want to have this here? I don't… it… it boggles the mind. Thank you very much."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I… I was… I was not going to speak on this until I heard the Gentleman from Cook talk about fraud. Now, I will not be lectured by the Gentleman from Cook. I wonder… to the… if the Lady will yield for a question. Repre… Representative, under your legislation, will you be able to put campaign signs in a school bus and deliver them to households?"

"Or, would you… is that… is that covered under your Bill?"

"Well, I'm talking about those absentee voters. Would… would, under your Bill, would a… an anonymous Representative from Cook be able to use a school bus to deliver campaign signs to his office?"

"Yeah, you're right…"

"…and one of… and one of your defenders wants to talk to me about fraud. I wonder… I wonder if you could go down to the assessor's office with a special stack marked with your initials on it, and then we see campaign contributions to the Illinois Democratic Party, to Citizens for Madigan, 09600058.doc 99  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 to the Democrats that you're trying to shove down our throats, the ones you're trying to steal elections with."

"Mr. Speaker, we… there are a variety of reasons to be for or against this legislation. Members on each side of the aisle have tried to invoke the souls of veterans who died on the beaches at Omaha, and those that died in recent wars. I don't know that… what those soldiers, and sailors, and Marines, and airmen that died would think of this Bill, but I do know that they would… they would probably chastise us a little bit for debating over their memory and how we should use it to our advantage. I… so, I resent that a little bit, but I tell you, we have so many serious issues before us, and then to have one of your Members on your side of the aisle, Speaker, stand up and… and use the word fraud, that's the ultimate insult. It's an insult to all of us, Representative."

"Thank you, Speaker. Point of personal privilege."

"I… I heard the previous speaker close the debate. I was very interested to find out about if who was concerned about who will come out to vote, because we wanted to have a Special Election for the U.S. Senate seat, but guess what, we couldn't have it. What were… what was… what were you afraid of? Who would come out to vote at that time? You've… you were afraid that you would lose the U.S. Senate seat that is now… that was the former President Obama's Senate seat. So, when you talk about who's coming out to vote for whom, nobody's afraid. We're prepared to do what we have to do to make sure that there are fair elections in this state, but when you deny the people of my district and the State of Illinois an opportunity to vote for a U.S. Senate under a cloud of corruption, then I don't think that you have any position to speak about that particular Bill. Thank you, Mr. Speaker." 09600058.doc 104  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I don't want to vote on this Bill, so I'm just going to vote early. Is that all right? I don't need a reason. Okay. I… as I leave, just vote me however you want. I don't need a reason, but I do… I would like to ask a question, if the Sponsor would yield."

"Okay."

"All right. Representative Joyce, you know, I hold you in the highest regard, but this isn't a real budget, is it?"

"This isn't a real budget, is it? It doesn't have salary increases in it. It doesn't have grant funds in it. It's kind of a, what would we call it, an outline?"

"Okay. So, it really only has GRF money that we are anticipating we'll have. I always love it when we pass a budget when we still don't know the revenue, but… It seems a backwards way to do it, but what isn't plugged in here? I mean there… these figures aren't… aren't realistic. I've been here long enough to know that. So, what… what isn't in here? We… you haven't plugged in the anticipation of grant funds, or things of that nature?" 09600058.doc 109  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Okay. Money that we think we're going to have."

"Okay. Now…"

“Okay.”

“All right.”

"In… in the General Assembly portion of this Bill, I'm going to assume there's no appropriation in there for the proposed cost of living increase for Members of the General Assembly and constitutionally elected office holders."

"So, I'm assuming that without some extraordinary action, then the cost of living raise that we are due by law will not be funded, unless we change it later on." 09600058.doc 110  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Okay. There are a number of these sections, for example, on page 38 of Amendment #2, on line 11, Section 17, the amount of $1 shall be appropriated from the General Revenue Fund to the Department on Aging for professional and artistic services, for the fiscal year ending June 30, 2010. Is that put there simply because we… you do not have the anticipated figure that will go in there?"

"All right."

"Now, as I recall, artistic and professional services generally do not… if the money's put in there, as I recall, those are non-bid services, aren't they? I think former Governor Blagojevich loved professional and…"

"…artistic services."

"It can be swept. Okay. Now, does… does this Amendment consider or take into account, or otherwise roll in a potential income tax increase to meet any of the figures you've put in here?"

"No. So, you're talking then about this Amendment being a relatively flat… I don't like the work doomsday. I… I thought we were done with that six years of doom and gloom and the sky is falling, and if you don't vote for this, a hex on your house or what… I thought we were beyond that."

"So, I don't like the word doomsday budget, but this reflects, perhaps, a flat growth budget."

"That… that's a good word, streamlined budget. I'll…"

"…you I will, Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much for your indulgence, and thank the Sponsor."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, were there any questions asked in your committee before this Bill was passed?"

"I'm sorry."

"Yeah. Were there any questions on this committee as to what's in this Bill?"

"Good for him. I really applaud that."

"I understand that, but the good portion of your Bill has nothing to do with… with the hearings you had in your committee. It has to do with other…"

"Well, listen up strong. It… a lot of this Bill has nothing to do with what's in your committee. It has to do with…"

"…what came before other committees. So, if your committee voted on the parts of the Bill that they looked at, I'm sure they were familiar with it. But as far as the other parts of the Bill, because all these Bills are composite, there are other parts of the Bill that people in your committee knew nothing about, and did not ask any questions about. Is that not correct?"

"Right, and you have…"

"…an amount…"

"Well, what I'm worried about is the fact the way that the series of Bills that's going to be voted on is put together, it makes it practically impossible for the people that have given up their time for years, or for this 09600058.doc 116  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 Session, to track what happens in those individual agencies that they care about, and that they know about, because they've divided the money up. But I have another question for you. How can you put the amount of money in for the bargaining unit, when normally we don't know what they're going to bargain, and we don't signal to the unions how we're going to bargain? Was it a guesstimate of what…"

"…you think will be there?"

"So, isn't it right that if we pass the whole series of Bills that’s coming up, that we could go home from here without doing anything else? We don't have to do capital; we don't have do any more of a budget. You have a core budget that you could walk out of here with, except you wouldn't fund grants, and you wouldn't fund a lot of things that are important to people, or you could use the core budget as leverage for people to get their things in if they want to pass an income tax increase, or you could walk out of here without doing a capital Bill, because this is part of a series of Bills that gives you a core budget that dumps it on to the Governor and a few other people. That is part of the reverse psychology of what was used last year of doing a full budget and dumping it on to the Governor, all coming out of this House, and that you had Members sitting in your committee that made no statements or didn’t even ask questions about some of the important parts of this Bill." 09600058.doc 117  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"That's really…"

"…too bad, because there are a lot of us that have dealt with this over the years that don't see this as a good way to do a budget."

"Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I… I'd just like to address the Body on the merits of the Bill. I support the Bill, and the chairman. I’m the Republican spokesman on Appropriations General Services. We heard several months, different agencies' budgets, 80 percent of… 90 percent of the budgets in this Bill are from those committee hearings. So, I do support House Bill 2145." 09600058.doc 118  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, just to repeat a couple things, all of these expenditures come from either other state funds or federal funds, is that correct?"

"And there's very tight latitude on where these dollars can be spent?"

"Okay. Is there any place in here, and we thought about this after we… we voted on this yesterday, but this is a small… or not a small, but this is a portion of what all the moneys that's going to be appropriated to this area by the time we leave probably. Is there anywhere in here where we could have cut… By doing this so early and putting this to rest, so to speak, is there any place in here where we could have cut to help close the budget deficit, that's going to kind of take that option away from us with the GRF spending?"

"When do you anticipate that we will do the rest of the funding for this agency?"

"Okay. On your Second… on your Floor Amendment that we just passed today, how much of an increase did we add on over yesterday's committee vote?"

"So, half a million dollars, a little over that, that we added on today?"

"Not even quite that much?"

"I understand that, but the drafting error's going to cost us more money. So, I was just trying to get some idea of how much more money that… over yesterday's totals that was going to be, but that's okay."

"Okay. To the Bill. Well, here we are, the last 10 days of Session. We've had all year to do this, and what we're doing is piecemealing this budget together, folks, and I support this part of it, but it's going to be very hard to follow what's going on here. Basically, all these Bills that we're going to vote on this here, this afternoon, represent over $16 billion, leaves us about 6 billion left to plug a $11 to $14 billion hole. There's going to be some hard choices to be made here, and it's going to be even harder when we piecemeal this budget together like we're doing. And it… it's hard for the people to follow. We've had all year to do this and here we are trying to do it the last 10 days, but that's what's before us. I rise 09600058.doc 122  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 in support of the… the Lady's Bill for public safety. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, was Amendment 1 the only Amendment that you put on, and that's the whole Bill?"

"And, what did it…"

"And what were those drafting errors?"

"Well, with all due respect, I'm sure everyone in the Body knows what… how it affects the budget for the State of Illinois for FY10. Were there anybody… was there anybody in your committee that asked any questions, and did they ask any questions specifically on the human service parts of budget, which normally don't come through your committee?" 09600058.doc 125  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"And you're… this Bill is supposed to be other federal funds…"

"…other state funds. Does other federal funds also include stimulus money?"

"So, that your Bill can dispose of stimulus money in what they did or didn't do at some of the agencies?"

"I'm just trying to figure out how they could put stimulus money into this package, which I'm sure they'll figure out someway that would handle this, but I notice in just quickly looking through some of this…"

"…there are cuts in DCFS…"

"…there are cuts in foster parents. There's all kinds of cuts in programs that this would have to come through another whole set of budgets. My problem with the whole process is that they've piecemealed all the agencies, and doled them out to different committees that don't usually look at those agencies and might not know what to look for if a Bill was presented in a very quick fashion that had to be gotten out, and this was only out there for less than a couple of days for people to take a look at. 09600058.doc 126  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 You know, advocates are concerned, and that this is kind of a interesting way to… and that's the nicest thing I can say about it, to present a state budget by piecemealing all the things that have been discussed over years on how you run different state agencies. So, did you feel comfortable with doing it this way?"

"Well, as a chair for that committee, you are a part of the process, because I would imagine that if you're vocal, you have some input into how we're doing it. But this is really very confusing for people on a committee that don't normally look at those types of budgets, and there's a whole lot of human service things in here and yet, the human service budget is very imperfect. So, it's interesting to me what's… what's in this Bill and the way they're going about it, and it's part of a package that would be a core budget, which you could leave, as I've said before, and really not meet the needs of the people of the State of Illinois."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, could you explain to me what type of funding's going to go to the Capital Litigation Trust Fund? 09600058.doc 127  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 It's been a question I know a number of us have been asked by…"

"…defense counsel and also…"

"…state's attorneys."

"I guess the question I have, are we going to be decreasing that level of funding this year, or are we going to maintain…"

"…the previous year's level?"

"All right."

"Where are those appropriations going to? I know that the Cook County Treasurer is responsible for releasing that money for cases within Cook County and the State Treasurer outside of Cook."

"Is that money going into the… I'm curious how that… where that money's going to be sent and then it's… what is the… how's it get to the Cook County Treasurer?"

"But I guess the point is, we're not giving that money to the Cook County State's Attorney directly, are we? Or we… or we giving… nor the public defender, directly?"

"All right. All right."

"Could you tell me exactly what the overall appropriation is for the State of Illinois in this year's budget?"

"All of them. What is the… bottom line, what is the… what is the total number… what is the… what is the dollar amount for the Capital Litigation Fund money this year for the whole State of Illinois?"

"One million for the whole state? One million above last year's, or we’re saying we’re getting one…"

"Everybody. You've got appellate prosecutor, you have the state…"

"…you have the state appellate defender, you've got the Cook County public defender…"

"Cook… I'm looking for the combined number for all the different agencies who are going to be drawing from that fund. What is the actual…" 09600058.doc 129  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"…dollar amount we're putting into that fund?"

"That's fine. You just… All right, that's fine. Just you have somebody tell me, 'cause I… I got to get this number back to some people, 'cause there's a lot individuals who are interested in how we're going to be able to fund this area of the criminal justice system, despite what the other problems we have in the state. So, it is a concern. I just need to know. You can tell me at some point this afternoon what the bottom line is."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, is there any money is this budget for Medicaid bills?"

"How much?"

"Thank you very much. I mean, the reason being is we had quite a discussion yesterday at these Human Service Approp Committee as to why so many other Medicaid funding 09600058.doc 130  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 bills were going through another committee rather than the Human Service Approp Committee which usually addresses the issues of Medicaid, especially since it's been such a major issue this year with unpaid Medicaid bills, and also looking at Medicaid reform. So, that's why we're trying to figure out where else that money is being spent in the budget. One of the other things I wanted to ask was, on this is… there is, under the aging, we're trying to figure out, 'cause yesterday there was discussion about home health care services, which are so important to keeping seniors in their home and out of nursing homes and hospitals. We're looking for where that money is being spent, and I'm looking at this budget under aging and… under this Bill, and it says a decrease in social serves of $10 million. So, I'm wondering which services those are being decreased in the amount of $10 million."

"Ten million."

"And then you have another decrease in what is considered discretionary government projects under this same… under the aging of one billion… one and a half billion dollars."

"So, that's not the home health care?" 09600058.doc 131  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Okay, thank you. And what about… can we… the decrease in discretionary government projects under aging, one bil… one billion dollars, is that correct?"

"Okay. That's not there. Okay. To the Bill."

"There's been a lot of discussion on the Human Service budget. A couple of weeks ago, we went over all the Human Service budgets in the Appropriation Committee, in most of those budgets, by the agencies, there was between 4 to 10 percent increase for the people in the agencies, and yet, when it came time for the programs, there's was a 10 to 20 percent decrease. If all of us are willing to take a decrease, I think that's the right thing to do in this age, but for others in agencies to all get increases between 4 and 10 percent, I think it's outrageous."

"Thank you, Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, I… I just want a couple clarifications. I think I heard you cor… Oh, there you are. I was looking over there. When… whenever our analysis discusses the pension issue, it states that… for example, the EPA budget 09600058.doc 132  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 that's being funded by these funds, these are non-GRF funds I believe. Is that correct?"

"Okay. The EPA budget that's being supported by these non-GRF funds are the Governor's introduced level. We're funding the Governor's introduced level from the FY10 budget, right?"

"Except in the retirement area, his introduced level was lower, and this is funding the statutory payment as calculated. So…"

"…I just want to make sure everybody understands by voting for this, you're not voting for a pension payment that's less than the statutory amount. This is actually supporting that full payment. Is that correct?"

"When we get to the other differences from FY09, let's just use the EPA budget. There's a decrease. Now, that decrease actually reflects the Governor's introduced amount."

"Okay. So, is it possible that later, and this is a… this is the real question, I think, that we'll see another budget that could increase any of those appropriated line items if General Revenue or other revenue could support an increase to restore some of this?"

"I mean, this is basically action dealing with federal funds?"

"Are there any other funds supporting this except federal funds?"

"Okay. Some lapse spending funds…"

"…Reappropriated money that… Okay. I think specifically…"

"Okay. They aren't… they aren't dedicated funds that we're… we're using right now, though. These are lapsed funds or federal funds."

"Okay. The fund sweeps that were proposed by the Governor in his introduced budget, some of which there are… there's opposition to, those fund sweeps are not part of what's being used to support the spending… the appropriation in this budget?"

"Okay. That… that clears it up to me for… to some degree. Part of this deals with the education budget. Just very quickly, if I could, take you down to the education portion of this, and if you'll give me just a second so that I can find that again. Are we, basically, talking about the same thing there? We're… we're talking about, for example, there's $2.7 million in there for longitudinal 09600058.doc 134  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 data study. Does that reflect the amount from the recently granted federal money that the State Board of Education won from the… the Race to the Top or those ARRA funds, or is that General Revenue? Where does that money come from?"

"Okay. Representative Smith, the other day, I… I forget the number, I think it was Senate Bill 1826, he… he introduced the longitudinal data Bill, and we said at the time that that… that payment was going to be made with federal funds because the State Board of Education won a $5 million…"

"…federal grant. That's the one?"

"So, any other of these line items here that are increases, are probably due to federal stimulus money or some lapse spending, and General Revenue's coming later."

"All right. Thank you. I appreciate the clarification on that. This just basically spends that federal money in a way that supports the Governor's introduced budget, and any cuts are the Governor's cuts. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, under financial and professional regulations, it shows that there's a difference of $7,900,000. Then it comes down and shows that there's 8 million, which is being transferred over to the Department of Insurance, which you and I know was done this year, but then down under the Department of Insurance, it's showing for FY10 a budget of 34 million. My question is, when they were transferring that money, was that money that was left over in this year with the anticipation that this particular funding would be coming in from the premiums that are paid in the insurance?"

"Right, and I understand that, and I know that in the previous administration this money was all put into professional regulations… yeah, professional regulations when… was it divided specifically for the Department of Insurance?"

"So… so, they put together the numbers of the transfer from the department and what the income will be from the insurance premiums?"

"All right. Thank you." 09600058.doc 136  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Thank you. Representative, I'm looking at the aging budget, which is something that I've dealt with for over 12 years, and I'm having a little bit of a difficulty in understanding in your committee what happened with that. So, I have some questions related to the increases and decreases. As I read this, there's a $1 million increase in the ombudsman services, a $1 million increase in preventive health, and a $500 thousand increase in prevention of elder abuse, all which are very laudable, and I appreciate those. But then I get to the next line and it’s a $10 million decrease in social services. Can you explain that and why there would be that decrease in probably the most important lines that aging does?"

"I was not…"

"No, this is not… I… this is in your committee."

"Okay. I was just told by my staff it's not social services, it's shared services, but it is still a $10 million decrease." 09600058.doc 137  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"You're saying this is what the Governor introduced to us."

"That's not what we agreed to, though."

"Okay. Just assuming that the Governor introduced it doesn't mean that we would have agreed to it, nor do we agree to it at this point."

"Which again, is one of the more important items. Under the adult day care, as I understand it, there's a $1.7 million decrease in adult day care services? Is that accurate?"

"No… no, this Bill was not in our committee."

"No, we did not vote this out of committee. So, I… I mean, that's the problem here, and I usually try not to be that adamant, but I'm really concerned that we're being told that we voted this out of a committee. We've never seen this until this minute. If it's the Governor's introduced, we did hear about it in committee. That does not mean that we voted it out of committee. There's also a 09600058.doc 138  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 question about the addiction services, and can you explain what happens in this budget with the addiction services?"

"So, I guess, and I… to the Bill. It's unfortunate that the people that know these budgets the best were not allowed to be in the committee yesterday to ask some of these questions, so we had to ask them on the floor to try to clarify, really, what is in each of these Bills that, by the way, we've just received, and I really think the lack of transparency here is exactly what our constituents are mad about. And it's not just in campaign finance, it's also in the budgeting process, and this is completely nontransparent. And I urge a 'no' vote."

"To the Bill, Mr. Speaker. I just hope that every Member of this House is paying close attention to the travesty that is unfolding here, otherwise described as a budget. Many of you haven't been around very long, and certainly, not as long as a few of us have been, but there was a day in this House when there were actual appropriations, agency by agency, department by department, where the directors even of those agencies from the… and Governor's staff and liaisons were on the floor, where individual Members could introduce Amendments, could work with their colleagues, could have an impact on the budget of the State of Illinois. And what a travesty it is that 09600058.doc 139  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 the Human Services budget is going through three different committees, and on the backs of the people who need the most help in our state. Nobody has a clue on the floor of this House what is in this budget, and nobody understands where this mess comes from, and nobody should accept the lack of your individual rights. Be you a Republican, be you a Democrat, your constituents are being disenfranchised by this process. At some point soon, you must say enough is enough. We must demand a process that is indeed transparent, that is one that enables you as individual Members to represent your constituencies, to make valuable the time that you spend in these committees, and put an end to the politburo style and replace it, what we all know, and what we all respect to be authentic American principles of democracy. If we continue to accept this, this is our fault. And I would encourage you to reject this process, and to reject these budgets, and to restore democracy to this House. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative Feigenholtz, yesterday when we were talking about this Bill, we were told this was all the 09600058.doc 141  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 Medicaid money, but the last speak… the last presenter of the Bill previous to this one, said that there was Medicaid money in her Bill, too, which they looked up. What's correct and why should there be Medicaid money in this Bill and in the previous Bill, which we did not get to discuss?"

"Do you…"

"…anticipate a follow up Bill of some sort, or some kind of a patch on the budget that will give you additional Medicaid funding for other sources?"

"And so, what happens if we leave here and it doesn’t, and are you comfortable with the current process?"

"So, my question to you is, if none of you who have any idea about what's going on on the budget on your side of the aisle are not comfortable with this, why are you moving forward? Do you not have any say in your caucus 09600058.doc 142  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 about how you actually do things? I won't put you on that spot, because I res… I respect having worked with you over these years, but as far as I'm concerned, this is the most abhorrent way we have ever done a human service budget in the 17 years I've been here. You can not tell what's in this budget and what's not in this budget, and we all know there's a lot not in this budget because of these si… five Bills that are being presented. There's only $16.9 billion of a budget that was anticipated to be somewhere between 23 billion and 27 billion. And so we have advocates standing in the hall, calling us out there wanting to know what's happening with their grant money, what's happening with DASA, what's happening with this, that, and the everything. We have human service budgets going through committees that people have no clue how to ask the questions about what's happening there. So, basically, what we have is a piecemeal. We could find ourselves going home, and I think that's part of what the plan is here from the ultimate plan players, going home and spending our whole time answering questions from outraged people who aren't getting services. So, I guess the goal is to either make this Governor look bad, as you did last year with the previous Governor, make us look bad in general, make us vote on votes that you can portray however way, not adequately fund anything, and certainly not to go over the human service budget in a way that is indicative of any forward moving issues. I don't think it's your desire to go along with Tribune articles that say the General Assembly is less than transparent. I mean, if you want to fi… of a year, when we are being beat 09600058.doc 143  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 up on ethics and transparency, this is the most untransparent, worst budget. The people that are here new, at least for the last six years, don't even have a clue of what it is to do a budget. But the fact of the matter is, the Human Service Approp Committee voted only on the stimulus money for three areas: pediatricians or doctors, nursing homes and hospitals. The whole rest of the budget, which is about 40 percent of your state budget, came through little piddling pieces in other parts of committees that has not much to do with anything. So, what happens is, you have been usurped in your power to do anything for the people that you represent by convoluted politics that is to play games in the overall end game here of who has a say in the budget. I can't believe that your caucus just blithely is going along with this, and I'll tell you, if we go home out of here with this core being the only budget, and having to come back and forth and listen to people complain, it's on all of your heads, certainly not on ours, and I think that's really sad. I think there should have been more of a fight to make sure that we have a comprehensive budget that we know exactly what we're funding, and what we're being asked to fund, not this sham. Representative, I respect you, but I think you should've spoken up more. I… I know it's hard to be the lonely voices in your caucus. I notice there's a number of your Members voting 'present'. That's a really good idea. Maybe they'll get the message." 09600058.doc 144  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Well, maybe we should just take a deep breath here. I… I heard the Lady say that she wanted to withdraw Amendment #2, and then we… am I right… and then we voted it out. Maybe we should go back to Amendment #2 and withdraw it."

"Well, I… I understand what we're trying to do, but for the record, what became of Amendment 2? We voted on it by voice vote. I… I think, for the record, we need to clarify that."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was going to ask for the Sponsor to yield, but until we get this cleared up as to which Amendment that we're actually working on, I'll just wait until we get that cleared up, if that's okay." 09600058.doc 147  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the record, Representative Soto, could you give us some… you said it was a technical change from Amendment #2. Could you give us the exact details of that technical change?"

"I… Okay. So, you're saying that this is a change in the stimulus money?"

"I'm sorry, Representative, I didn't catch that."

"Okay. But the bottom line stays the same. The amount of money coming from the stimulus program in the two lump sums, and the bottom line of GRF remain the same. It's just changing from one lump sum to another, in the stimulus program?"

"The bottom line of GRF changes by $500. Up or down?"

"And where did that $500 end up, or 500…"

"Okay. Okay. Thank you very much." 09600058.doc 148  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Now that we have the Amendment adopted and we're acting on the Bill on Third Reading, this is a Bill that only funds the state ins… the state… the 4- year state colleges and the community college system. Is that correct?"

"There is no money in this particular Amendment for the Illinois Student Assistance Commission, or the Board of Higher Education, or IMSA?"

"And is that forthcoming, or do you know where that funding is going to be coming… it… was it in one of the appropriation Bills that we've already acted on?"

"It is. Okay. But at the current time, we're funding the 4-year colleges and we have support from the 4-year colleges for this particular Bill, and as I understand, it treats the community colleges pretty well, as well."

"The… the change in the… the technical change that we didn't discuss before on the Amendment #3 with respect to the community colleges, was my understanding there were some shifts from the base operating grant to a couple of other… a couple of other line items. Did the community colleges agree to those changes?"

"Okay. So, the community colleges have signed off on it, and they're okay with even… even though it was mandated by Federal Government?"

"Okay. Thank you very much."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, you mentioned the $231 increase in the general state aid foundation level, and I think you mentioned the amount of 6190. I think we all know in here that that's still well below what EFAB would have recommended to fund that level at, but given the circumstances, the… the federal stimulus money was used as the application that is being submitted stated, and that was to… to fund the… the program… the general support program for students in the state, and… and there's a great deal of stimulus money going into that. What you failed to mention and I think is important is the fact that mandated 09600058.doc 153  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 categoricals are also supported with this federal stimulus money, and instead of prorating… instead of prorating mandated categoricals, as we might have had to, this allows for 100 percent funding of mandated categoricals. So, in the two areas that… that a lot of times get the most attention here, mandated categoricals and foundation level, federal stimulus money is being used to support both of those areas."

"Well, I apologize for not hearing that."

"And I… I think another important part of what you stated is the, you call them onerous, reporting requirements. I think… as a… as a school superintendent, I can tell you that I actually am grateful that there are going to be two codes used, and a minimal amount of reporting will be necessary because of the way this money is being distributed. If it's used other ways, and probably there's a couple hundred million dollars in here that could have been distributed throughout the budget in other ways, but there would have had to been set up at the state board and at every district, a separate code function for receiving the money, for spending the money, and for reporting all spending. So, I think this makes the most sense with that federal money for a variety of reasons. The… the issue that you brought up, though, I think that everyone in this Body should… should really pay attention to, is the fact 09600058.doc 154  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 that the mandated categorical spending that supports special education in the City of Chicago, overfunds that categorical by $240 million if the same formula were used in the City of Chicago that's used in every other school district in the State of Illinois. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, 241 million additional dollars go to the City of Chicago outside of the calculated amount that everybody else in the state has to live with. Now, I'm not necessarily for gutting $240 million out of the City of Chicago's budget, but for Pete's sake, let's have a little parity here, and when… when we have other districts that are facing the same kind of problems, and… and the for… the formula does not support them receiving that money, let's look at… at making it a little bit easier for them as they get hold harmless removed. And then we have some opportunities to do that in the budget that's coming, and Representative, I join you in an attempt to… to kind of scale… scale that ramp down. I think that’s only fair, but folks in here need to understand, this is fully funding the mandated categoricals line item, which would fully fund the additional $241 million that… that isn’t calculated for the City of Chicago under the same formula. There's… there's no removal of their hold harmless in this. They've had an in… a decrease in student population. They've have a decrease in special education personnel spending. They've had decreases just like the hold harmless schools have had, but they're being fully funded, overfunded actually, by the formula. We need to pay attention to it, and I hope… I hope Mr. Hubberman will make his way down to Springfield a 09600058.doc 155  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 little bit more often to work with us as we together have to… we… we have to address some real serious funding problems, and… and the City of Chicago and my rural area are very much alike in many ways when it comes to the funding formula, and I want very much to work with them on improving that. But… but we can't do it if we're going to treat the City of Chicago differently when it comes to issues related to the loss of enrollment, and the loss of numbers then we are every other school district in the state. We need some parity, that's all, and hopefully, we'll see that in the 'bimp' language, and I hope you'll… you'll join me in supporting that, Representative."

"Thank you. I… I think… To the Bill, very quickly. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is, in my opinion, the best use of the federal stimulus money to support the two categories. The only flaw in this Bill is the fact that maybe we didn't… we didn't address something that's important to me regarding hold harmless, and hopefully, we can do that later on. I trust there's going to be a good look taken at that, and… and we can work together to make sure that… that cliff isn't as steep for the other schools if we're going to make sure Chicago doesn't get a cut as well. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill. Ladies and Gentlemen… A couple… a couple of concerns. One is that we are… we are doing a good job this year in terms of general 09600058.doc 156  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 state aid, in fact, it is actually the per pupil increases over what ISBE had originally proposed. They had originally proposed $130 increase. We are… they will be giving them $231 dollars increase per year, and while it's not at the EFAB level, it is substantially over last year's per pupil expenditure. Also, the mandated categoricals are seeing a healthy increase. The concern I have is that this is being funded with ARRA funds, which means that again, we really need to pay attention in that two years from now, we are looking at a huge drop off, another cliff that we will be jumping right off into the air. We have already talked about… the chairman and I have talked about he concern that we have for the bilingual per pupil funding, that it needs to be addressed on an equity basis statewide, and that's a per pupil expenditure that would follow the child, not necessarily be a block grant to any individual school district. So, the other concern I've got is with all of these Bills together, and again, it has to do with process, not necessarily this Bill itself. I think this Bill does a good job under some very difficult circumstances at making sure that the schools can continue to function, but the five appropriation Bills that we're going to be looking at today are going to come up with $16.9 billion, which means that we will have $6.8 billion left to cover another $14 billion in spending, and that would need to include the pension funding. We've got to fund the pension this year or we're going to exacerbate the problems that we've already had. So, we've got tough sledding ahead, but for 09600058.doc 157  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 this part of the budget, I would urge an 'aye' vote. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Speaker, the only question I have, I think that you mentioned that judges are excluded."

"I… I can kind of remember that, but that was kind of like the fox guarding the chicken coop. There's just nothing else that we can do about that, and I can understand that. I just wanted to clarify that. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"I would… first commend you on this Motion, this Bill. I think we all need to take a hit at a time when our state, obviously, is in serious financial peril. The question I have is, by rescinding the COLAs, but… but really the… the four days of furlough, how do you handle that constitutionally, when I believe the Cons… Constitution said our salaries may not be increased or diminished during our term of office? Do you have a… I'm sure you have a legal argument on that? Or… or possibly it’s just nobody has had the guts to stand up and sue over this issue. I…"

"Well, I don’t know about you, but it seems like my phone rings 365 days a year on state business. I intend to answer the phone on the four days of furlough. I'll probably read my e-mail and continuing doing correspondence and research, but I would assume that there would be 09600058.doc 164  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 considered a diminution of our income if… of our salaries if there is a furlough day. And while I certainly will honor it, I think that this certainly has a legal challenge in front of it."

"We all are at many times. The question is, I think, it's still back to the fact that it looks like a diminution of salary, and I… I don't know how you get around that legal argument, but it would have to be, I assume, that it would go ahead and take place unless litigated. Is that correct? Un… unless somebody in the General Assembly who has standing says, I'm not going to take a salary reduction and chooses to file suit, that it would go forward."

"Okay. And… but that's… that's the answer. It will take effect unless there is a court challenge similar to what the judges did, and I fought the judges over that many… you know, several years ago, and I'm still am on good arguing terms with some now appellate jus… justices who chose to push that forward. I do appreciate your response, and think that this is the right thing to do at this time in our state's financial quandary. Thank you very much."

"Thank you. Would the Speaker yield?"

"Mr. Speaker, if I understood you correctly, and I've been trying to pretty quickly read through the language of the Bill, this is for FY10 only?"

"Yes."

"So, after FY10, the Compensation Review Board's standard practice, which now allows for the cost-of-living increases to take place automatically, will continue?"

"Some… some of the legislation that's been proposed regarding this issue would have simply required that that process always be this transparent, or that we would… we would have a vote each and every time there was an increase. Is there any reason that it was limited to just FY10 instead of trying to… to make this more transparent, just generally?"

"Mr. Speaker, I… I guess my question then becomes, as an alternative, those Bills that would have provided Members of the General Assembly the opportunity to vote on… just simply changing the process for good rather than at a fiscal year. That option isn't being provided. This is… this is our one opportunity this year, on a Bill that we're going to vote on in regards to these COLAs, and it is for one year."

"I appreciate the… the response. Now, this also includes the Executive Branch? All Members of the Executive Branch would not receive a COLA under this legislation?"

"And the Governor's cabinet. The four furlough days for Members of the General Assembly, are just for the Members of the General Assembly? There aren't furlough days involved for the Executive Branch or the Governor's cabinet?"

"Is there any reason that the number four wasn't applied to the Executive Branch furlough as well, and the cabinet 09600058.doc 168  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 positions, and just the General Assembly? And let me make myself… I don't mind it. I think it needs to start here, and as Representative Winters noted, I don't think anybody in here is not going to answer the phone or take care of constituents, or have that day blocked. We don't… we don't now. So, is there a reason they weren't included?"

“I understand.”

"Is it within the purview of the Executive Branch and other Constitutional Office… Chief Executives to apply furlough days to their staff?"

"They can do that without General Assembly…"

"So, they could do this, and they could follow the lead here, and do this without our action."

"Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the answers."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, first of all, thank you for your kind remarks. It is amazing how many years I have labored here, and a kind word from you makes what has not been a particularly good day, a much better day. I… I, seriously, I thank you for that. Let me ask you a question, if I could. Let me understand… I was talking with staff… do judges get a cost-of-living increase under the same system that you and I do?"

"All right. Now, as you'll recall, the judges sued the last time we tried to freeze, or… freeze may be the wrong word, but we did not give them a salary increase that they thought they were entitled to, and they won. Is there a severability clause? Because as I read this, their salary is frozen. So, I'm just anticipating going on what happened the last time the judges said, well, you cannot… you cannot touch our salary. I just… I want to make sure that the whole Bill doesn't get thrown out if the judges again sue us and say, you cannot fool with our cost of living, or our salary."

"Oh, I'm sorry. It… staff was telling me that it… it freezes the salary of judges. Did that… are we…"

"…are we mistaken on that?"

"All right. Perhaps… perhaps that is the confusion…"

"…because I was talking to staff, and it said it freezes the salaries of judges, Constitutional Officers, Directors, General Assembly, et cetera, at current levels, and that frozen amount will then be used as the base level when the automatic COLAs return… might return in Fiscal Year 11. So, as it relates to judges, it just simply means that there is no more automatic pay increase by vis-à-vis the Compensation Review Board."

"So, if they want a salary increase, because your Amendment abolishes the Compensation Review Board."

"Long overdue. It's a strange way that we've done that over the last few years. So, if the General Assembly wants a salary increase, or the judges, in FY11, someone will have to file a Bill, and say the salary should be increased by 3 percent, 5 percent, whatever it is, and then you must vote 'yes' or 'no' to grant yourself, or other elected officials a raise."

"Going back to the system that…"

"…you and I were used to some years ago."

"Fine. Now, let me… let me make sure that I understand this, and I appreciate what you're doing, and I don't care if the courts get involved, I will send you a copy of the four checks. I will send that back to the Comptroller, to the State of Illinois for the furlough days. I don't care whether it's taken out or not. I… I just… I thought from day one, and I was being serious, for us to take a raise when the Governor was asking state employees to take furlough days, was just not the right thing to do, and I appreciate you addressing that in your Amendment. But let me make sure on behalf of people that I work with every day for a lot less money than… than what I am paid to do my job… this does not impact legislative secretarial pay, staff pay, on your side, or my side of the aisle. That doesn't impact them?"

"Okay. So, I guess the bottom line then is, from… assuming this becomes law, and I truly hope it does, if there is to be a raise in pay in our base amount, or a judicial base amount, or a constitutional-elected officeholder, that Bill will have to be filed, sent to committee, have a debate on the floor, and a recorded vote on how much we want to raise our pay, and who all is included?"

"Of all the things we may do in the next few days, Mr. Speaker, I think this is a change that is long overdue. It puts accountability back in the system. If you want a raise, and we used to debate this on this floor for hours, 09600058.doc 172  STATE OF ILLINOIS 96th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 58th Legislative Day 5/20/2009 years and years ago, you stand up and you say so, and you go back home and you face the voters and say, here's why I think I did, under the system that has evolved, unfortunately, in the last few years, you could go home and say, well, I don’t didn't vote for it. I didn't vote for the pay raise. Well, in effect, you did, but you didn't because of the way that it was handled by competing Resolutions. I think this is a step forward in the right direction. I commend you for your work. I intend to vote 'aye'."

"Possibly a question of the Chair. I wonder, given the nature of the Bill now, if we could change the title that appears on the board?"

"Well, the entire… the entire text of the original Bill was removed by Amendment, if I'm correct."

"Now, I knew you were going to say…"

"…that. You don't need to remind me how long I've been here every time I talk. I made my point. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Republicans wish to caucus in Room 118 for one hour."