Illinois House Floor Debate — November 8, 2011

Speaker Lyons: "Good afternoon, Illinois. Your House of Representatives will come to order. Members and guests are asked to please refrain from starting your laptops, turn off all electronic equipment, and stand for the invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance. We'll be led today in prayer by Wayne Padget, the Assistant Doorkeeper. Wayne."

"Nice job, Wayne. Representative Smith, will you please lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance." Smith – et al: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." 09700081.doc 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011

Speaker Lyons: "Roll Call for Attendance. Mike Bost, GOP status."

Speaker Lyons: "Thank you, Representative. Majority Leader Barbara Flynn Currie, Democrats."

"Thank you, Speaker. Please let the record show that both Representative Howard and Representative McGuire are excused today."

"Mr. Clerk, we have 113 Members present. Take the record. We have a quorum present and prepared to do the work of the State of Illinois. Mr. Clerk."

"Representative Gaffney on a point of personal privilege."

"Happy birthday, Mrs. Gaffney. Welcome to your Capitol. We're proud of your son down here. Representative Zalewski, for what purpose do you seek recognition, Representative."

"A point of personal privilege, Mr. Speaker."

"Please proceed, Mike."

"Mr. Speaker, as everyone knows, we have the township officials down here this week to visit us in Springfield. And I just want to acknowledge one of my township officials, Lyons Township Clerk, Mary Jo Noonan who's up in the gallery. If everyone could give her a round of applause 09700081.doc 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 and all the township officials, I'd really appreciate it. Thank you."

"Welcome township officials. We're proud to have you. Representative Phelps, for what purpose do you seek recognition, Representative."

"I know it's early but a purpose of an announcement."

"Please proceed."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Tomorrow morning at 7:30 at Representative Jerry Costello's office, the Illinois Legislative Sportsman Caucus will be getting together. It's on the south end of the Stratton, second floor. Love to have you. For the new Members, we will be collecting dues. So, love to see all of you there."

Speaker Lyons: "Thank you, Representative. Representative Jakobsson, for what purpose do you seek recognition."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to make an announcement, please."

"Please proceed, Naomi."

"I would like everybody to take notice. I believe you've received an invitation that IBHE is holding a retirement host for Don Sevener this evening from 5-8 at Celtic Mist. Please come out and thank Don Sevener for all the work he's done with IBHE."

Speaker Lyons: "Thank you, Representative. Representative Elaine Nekritz, for what purpose do you seek recognition."

"Point of personal privilege."

"Please proceed, Elaine." 09700081.doc 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like the Body to welcome my husband's son who …Mike Nekritz along with his cosuperintendent up at the Lakes Antioch High School, Jim McKay who have led a delegation of school superintendents from Lake County to advocate here today on… in opposition to some legislation. So, welcome, Mike and Jim."

"Welcome to the Capitol. Glad you could be here. Representative Golar, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to make an announcement."

"Please proceed."

"This evening at 5:30, the Legislative Black Caucus will meet in M-1 in the Stratton Building. Thank you."

Speaker Lyons: "Thank you, Representative. Representative Currie on a Motion."

"Thank you, Speaker. I move to suspend the posting requirements so that House Resolution 608 can be heard in the Committee on Revenue & Finance."

"Seeing no objection, we ask leave of the Body for House Resolution 608. All those in favor signify by saying 'yes'; those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. And the Resolution's adopted. The Motion's adopted. Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Ladies and Gentlemen, we'll start with the Supplemental Calendar, issues on Second Reading which will be moved to Third. Mr. Clerk, what's the status on the Senate Bill 72."

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, what's the status on Senate Bill 965?"

"Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, what's the status on Senate Bill 1587?"

"Third Reading. Status of Senate Bill 1640."

"Third Reading. The status on Senate Bill 1750."

"Hold that Bill on the Order of Second Reading. Senate Bill 1849, Mr. Clerk, status?"

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 1992, Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Ladies and Gentlemen, on page 4 of the Calendar, Representative Harris has Senate Bill 1335. What's the status on that Bill, Mr. Clerk?"

"Third Reading. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Representative Greg Harris." Harris, G.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill is a gut and replace Amendment. It affects only the county of Cook. I repeat, it affects only the county of Cook. We're doing this at the request of Cook County Board President Toni Preckwinkle and Cook County Treasurer Maria Pappas. This cures a glitch in the law whereby property taxes that are not fully paid by the first of November could be ordered sold by the Circuit Court. This would extend to July of the succeeding year the date the taxpayers would have especially in this difficult economy, to make their payments on their second installment 09700081.doc 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 of their property tax bill. This is good for three years. I would be happy to take any questions. I think this is a good Bill to help our citizens as they struggle to make ends meet."

Speaker Lyons: "You've heard Representative Harris's explanation on Senate Bill 1335. Is there any discussion? Seeing none this Bill will require 71 voted for passage. All those in favor signify by voting 'yes'; those opposed vote 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Dunkin, Feigenholtz, like to be recorded? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there's 111 Members voting 'yes', 0 voting 'no', 1 Member voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Supermajority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, on page 3 of the Calendar, Representative Franks has House Bill 3793. What's the status on that Bill, Mr. Clerk?"

"Third Reading. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"The Gentleman from McHenry, Representative Jack Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that we all heard loud and clear from property owners who are outraged and shocked when they open their property tax bills. Home values have 09700081.doc 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 plummeted in recent years, but the tax burden on those properties continues to skyrocket. Just this morning, the Chicago Tribune reported that more than 46 percent of all single family homes with a mortgage in the Chicago area were underwater, in this year's third quarter, far more than the nation as a whole. The percentage of homes in the Chicago area with negative equity rose 9 percent from the second quarter. Homeowners are understandably upset that they can be taxed more and more on less equity. And how are the homeowners suppose to pay these taxes? Their salaries aren’t going up and folks are living paycheck to paycheck. In the midst of a housing and mortgage crisis, we must act to provide relief to property owners struggling to get by. And that’s why we introduced this Bill. Our Bill provides that property taxes cannot go up at all in any year in which the gross value of property in a taxing district decreases. Now, under a current law, taxes can go up by the rate of the consumer inflation or 5 percent whichever is less. Now, that was fine when property values were steadily increasing, but now as home values are declining, the law is having the opposite affect. It is hurting homeowners and kicking them when they're down. Now, this is important to know that this Bill, and you've heard a lot of rhetoric, but it's important to know that this Bill will maintain the revenues that local units of government have received. It just won't allow for automatic increases when property values decline. They will get the same amount of money as the year before. And there still is a mechanism for a referendum if the taxing bodies require additional funds. 09700081.doc 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 This requires openness and accountability and this is really a truth in taxation Bill. I'm going to give you some examples. In McHenry County, which I represent, many of the local taxing units raised their rates an average of 9.4 percent and that of the… out of the 132 taxing bodies received last May, only 5 lowered their rates and 1 kept it the same. 126 other taxing bodies raised taxes an average of 9.4 percent. And a recent study from the Civic Federation confirmed which should be obvious to all homeowners that property tax bills are rising, while home values are falling. The study also pointed out that in the collar counties where residential and commercial properties taxed at the same rate the effective rates have gone up. For example, in Harvard, which I represent, the effective rate rose 35 percent."

"Representative, we'll be using the timer on this, so if you could conclude your opening remarks then we'll go… go to the time."

"I need a… I need another few moments."

"I'll give you another minute."

"It rose 35 percent from 2008 to 2009. You know, government at all levels must always look for opportunities to increase efficiency and do more with less. And as families tighten their bel… tighten their belts to make ends meet, we must ensure that government does the same. The goal must be to ensure property levels… levies are fair and equitable. The current PTELL Law is neither. The premise that government should get automatic increases at a time when its citizens have less is contrary to the ideals 09700081.doc 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 that this nation was founded on. And to expect higher returns at decli… at a time of declining asset values is contrary to all economic realities. It doesn’t happen in the business world and it must not happen in government. Hopefully, this Bill will stimulate discussion on how the state funds education and health and pension obligation. But taxing bodies are acting as though they are the victims when, in fact, it is the property owner and the taxpayer which is getting victimized by an unfair and outdated system and we must rectify the system. If we fail to do so, there will be additional foreclosures and bankruptcies which will further hinder our economic recovery. It's our duty to act; it's our duty to protect our constituents and fundamental fairness demands it. I'll be happy to answer any questions."

"Representative Eddy, two minutes."

"Sponsor yields."

"Inquiry, Roger."

"Well, I believe the Rule says, Representative, that there is a Rule for Pages not to do so but not restricting Members." 09700081.doc 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011

"Yes, that's my fault. It's not the Page's fault. I asked her to put that out. I thought you guys would be here at noon not at two. I was hoping to talk to each of you…"

"…but being two hours late sort of threw me off the game."

"Well I apologize. Don’t read it."

"Sponsor yields, Representative."

"Sure. I met with a lot of them and I know you have as well. You know, last year in the State of Illinois we finally did something important. We passed a Resolution saying we're only going to spend how much we actually bring in and this year we had to make very tough decisions on what the state had to spend. And we had to make cuts in areas where none of us really wanted to but we had to because we had less. But the local government somehow think they're immune to the realities of what's going on in the 09700081.doc 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 world and what they have now is automatic increases even when citizens have less. So, I understand there is going to be an effect, but the fact is they're not getting less money than the year before, they're getting the same amount. And the only… only in Illinois, only in Illinois would someone who said they get the same amount consider that a cut."

"Roger, we'll give you another minute. We'll give you another minute. Go ahead."

"Representative Osmond."

"The time yielded to Representative Eddy."

"Representative Zalewski."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Sponsor yields."

"Representative, I …I have the deepest amount of respect for the fierce amount of taxpayer advocacy that you 09700081.doc 15  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 do in this Body. I think you're voice of fiscal responsibility, a voice that says that we need to do more with less but on this particular Bill from one caucus Member to another I implore you to take it out of the record. You are forcing some of us to choose between doing what is right and doing what is popular. There is …is there any way you would consider taking this Bill out of the record, working with some of us who see the… see what you're trying to do, but in the same token, realize the effect it's going to have on the communities we represent that are governed by PTELL and we can work towards a solution that everybody could agree with."

"Mike, I appreciate your comments, and you were… you've been very eloquent on this issue and you asked me some questions in the committee as well. But I think we need to be clear that this is not a cut and it's been …it's been portrayed by that… that way by the opponents. I don’t see when you get the same amount of money as the year before how that is a cut. And then here in the state we had to cut our budgets a few percent, which would actually be less than what the imp… what was the implications of this Bill. My concern is that I'm worried that we're going to drive people out of their homes and the property taxes continue to increase and there's no correlation on property values now and with the increase in …in the taxes. It's not… I understand this is not a panacea and the reason we're in this mess is because the State Legislature has failed to adequately fund education properly. We have not lived up to our constitutional obligation to be the primary source of 09700081.doc 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 education funding, but hopefully this will stimulate that discussion more. I know many people that tried…"

Speaker Lyons: "Gentlemen, one more minute. Representative Zalewski."

"Yeah. Just to the Bill, Mr. Speaker, and again, I …I recognize certainly what the Representative is trying to do, but I've heard from my village presidents, my communities, the first responders that are up there in the gallery that this will hurt them. And despite the good intentions of the Sponsor and despite what may be coming our way if we cast a 'no' vote on this Bill it's the right thing to do to vote… to vote 'no'; it’s the popular thing to do to vote 'yes'. I urge a 'no' vote on this Bill."

"Representative Mike Tryon."

"Sponsor yields."

"Right."

"Correct."

"There will be no cut to what they got the prior year."

"Representative Tryon, we'll give you another minute."

"I've talked to some people about this, and I've asked for some response and I actually talked to some folks who are representing Chicago Public Schools. They haven't gotten back to us. But if it's something that it could be… that would be work and help we would consider doing that in the Senate for sure."

"Yes."

"Representative Mike Fortner."

"Sponsor yields."

"Well, it… I thought about that more after we spoke, professor, because we… you made me study it. And I was looking at what we're doing…"

"That’s right. Well, I want… 'cause you ask a very good question because right now how PTELL works it's the aggregate of the three years. Representative Tryon and I were talking about that and maybe getting off the triannual basis. That’s something else I think we should look at as well. But as it works now, and were not changing the function of how PTELL works. It's the triannual basis and if it… and how it's averaged because you gave me an example of what happens if it goes down two years and up one year and then you get that hit. Well, that’s exactly what happens now. So, we're not changing that and we're saying when you… 'cause they're constantly redoing the evaluation. So, we're saying that what's been good… we're not changing any of that process."

"Representative, we'll give you another minute. Go ahead."

"Representative Jim Sacia."

"So noted, Representative."

"I… I… no, I appreciate that, Representative, but it's… it's an issue that encompasses all areas of I… PTELL. But here… PTELL when it was first introduced in 1991 I don’t think anyone ever anticipated the kind of declining values that we're seeing now."

"Gentlemen the time has expired. We'll give you another minute. Let Jack…"

"It wasn’t created to work at a time with declining values. All this does is update a 20-year-old law that is actually harming folks instead of helping them at this time. And I know, like where you live, I presume that your …your values for your farmland is probably going up…"

"…so I don’t think this would effect your county because if the farmland values are going up, and I've seen the prices recently, then it wouldn’t matter because as long as the values are increasing in your area this would 09700081.doc 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 not apply. This only applies in areas where it's declining. So I think we need to have it statewide."

"Representative Elaine Nekritz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill, I believe we've all heard that the Sponsor's justification for this legislation is that during times of declining property values school districts, and this is targeted primarily at school districts since they get most of the property tax, need to be suffering cuts just as the state has. The Sponsor's correct. The state has made cuts, but that argument conveniently ignores the fact that the state cuts have been imposed on the very school district impacted by this legislation. Decisions made by this General Assembly have already cut revenues for schools. We've reduced the ADA block grant, the GSA hold harmless, special education, gifted, and other grant programs. We've cut general state aid. To somehow pretend that those cuts have not had an impact on the school budgets is disingenuous. School boards in my area have made cuts, I've heard all about it. Two of the districts have, in fact, negotiated hard freezes on teachers and administrators salaries. No staff, no raise. Class sizes have already increased. Staff has been laid off and programs cut. In addition to the false premise for this legislation that school districts have not been making cuts, this Bill is a blunt instrument that fails to take account of the variety of factors that play into what we know is a wildly complicated calculation of real estate 09700081.doc 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 taxes. The legislation doesn't distinguish, for example, betw… whether the EAV goes down a dollar or it goes down $100 million. The outcome is the same, regardless. The Bill does not distinguish between a declining EAV resulting from declining property values which is again what the Sponsor's been talking about or a decline in EAV that results from a change in the multiplier or a change in assumptions about the assessments or a large number of property tax appeals. The outcome is unfortunately the same, regardless. Finally, the legislation fails to contemplate the situation where a decline in value might be the result of one taxpayer. I represent a school district that where one taxpayer, one property constitutes about 25 percent of the value of the …the EA… their total…

Speaker Lyons: "Representative, we will give you another minute."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So when that single taxpayer goes down, this legislation goes into effect regardless of what's happening to the homeowners in the area. None of these nuances or complexities are dealt… are addressed in this legislation. Finally, nothing in this legislation will dictate that property tax bills go down. We already have a cap. But the bills in my area went up 5, 10, 20 percent not as a result of the cap or the increase levy, but as an increase of the relative values of property. So, nothing in this legislation will assure that property tax bills stay the same or go down. It won't do anything about that. So, I urge your 'no' vote."

"Representative Will Davis." 09700081.doc 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 Davis, W.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Sponsor yields." Davis, W.: "Representative, I don’t know if I'll be as eloquent as the previous speaker or as aggressive as some of the other speakers, but let me just ask a question. So, when you're …in your opening statement about this Bill you gave an example of Harvard, I think, was one of the communities that you mentioned. So, what's the impact of this Bill on a poor district?"

"I'm… I'm sorry. On a poor district?" Davis, W.: "On… on a poor community, a community that's already suffering."

"Well, it's not going to… here's the deal and I'm not sure I've articulated this correctly because I heard the last speaker argue and I… I never said that school districts haven’t made cuts. What I'm saying is that the locals will get the same amount of money as the previous year. If the taxing body believes that they need additional funds, they'll have to ask the taxpayers to do so. That’s all… it's all it says." Davis, W.: "But… but Representative, how many… how many referendum have… have you ever heard that have passed?"

"We've passed them in my communities all the time. That's how we fund… in McHenry County, for instance, that happens all… but in Chicago I know they never run them." Davis, W.: "Which is… which is, well, even in my area which is why I asked you maybe you have an example of a less fortunate community then yours. People who say, fine, we'll pay the extra money to make sure that our taxing bodies are 09700081.doc 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 taken care of. But in my communities, you know, people don’t necessarily have that luxury. So when referendum are put out there, they don’t pass. Good intention, but they don’t pass for obvious reasons. So, I'm just… that’s why I asked."

"Well, I'm not…" Davis, W.: "Is there something specific to a poor community that needs help?"

"Well, I guess I would have to disagree with your premise that they're not being taken care of. Because I believe that if a taxing body gets the same amount of money as the year before, that's not a cut. And maybe we look at it differently, but the argument that I'm hearing is we're getting cut. But I'm saying only in Springfield the people argue that way. It's not… in the real world if you… if you get the same amount of money as the year before most people are pretty happy." Davis, W.: "Well, I wasn’t one of those that said what… whatever statement you made."

"Oh, I know. Oh, I know." Davis, W.: "I didn't… I didn't say that. But again you use Harvard as…"

"Representative, we'll give you another minute." Davis, W.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And that's why I just asked if you had an example from a community different than Harvard…"

"Well…" Davis, W.: "…that… that can help me better, you know, understand the impact of what you're suggesting." 09700081.doc 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011

"Well, I can give another… I can give you a different example 'cause I can't… I haven't given one particularly but Representative Tryon and I met with our assessors and he was explaining a few years ago how his house was taxed. And …and what he had said is a few years ago he was paying 1.5 percent of his assessed value as a tax and now it's almost 4. So could you imagine owning an asset and you're paying more than twice of what …of what you were paying just a few years ago. It just… fundamentally it's unfair to our taxpayers, but we still have this safety valve. You know, if there's growth, if the values increase or if they want to run a referendum. I just think I… I just think it's desperately necessary to keep people in their homes." Davis, W.: "But none of which the three things you just mentioned are likely to happen in some of the communities that I represent."

"Well, I just don't think they're going to be as harmed as the opponents keep saying they are." Davis, W.: "Well, so… so, you would admit that we don’t necessarily know…"

"Right." Davis, W.: "But for some or for many in this chamber, who have communities like the ones that you represent, maybe that 09700081.doc 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 might be a way of doing this. So, maybe that might be an opportunity."

"Well, we didn’t know what the effects would be on the cuts that we had to do either and the cuts that we're still talking about today…" Davis, W.: "Well, we…"

"…and I understand the Speaker's going to have some veto overrides as well like…" Davis, W.: "Well, if you're talking about the cuts to Medicaid, we know what's happening there. So some of these cuts we know are very clear what's going to happen."

"But there's also a finite resource. And we can't continue to tax people more when they have less to give."

"Representatives, your time has expired." Davis, W.: "Understood. Thank you"

"Representative McCarthy."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield? Representative, I just want to make something clear. Under… Representative Nekritz made a statement about whether the EAV went down 1 dollar or 10 million dollars the penalty would be the same. Is that true?"

"I don't look at it …I don't look at it as a penalty. Let's change the vernacular here. Right now, if the…

"The freeze, it would be the same."

"Yeah. Well, the fact is right now under PTELL you automatically get an increase of 5 percent or the CPI, whichever is lower"

"Okay." 09700081.doc 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011

"Okay. But there's no corollary if the property values are falling bcause the way the Bill was written it wasn't written that way because no one anticipated this. I don’t at it as a penalty. I look at it as a way of preserving peoples homes. When you have 46 percent of homeowners who are underwater on their mortgage, if we continue to increase their property taxes they are going to walk. And when they walk, all of our property values go down. What's that going to do to the local governing bodies. We need to keep people in their homes."

"You've made that point very well."

"Thank you."

"And I think you even answered my question somewhere in there, but the answer was yes. And also could you tell me is the… whether the school district has met… has met its funding rates? Like there's an education rate; there's a bonding rate. I mean, some districts have been very frugal in their use of that and are nowhere near their cap. While there's others that are, you know, right at the cap. And then this kind of a reduction would, you know, affect them if they're already at their cap. But it seems like districts that at sometimes are already spending like 60 percent of their education cap, they'd be… not penalized, they would have this affect them as well as anybody who is already at their education rate or the… or their total rate."

"They wouldn't be getting… they would not be getting more than what they had the prior year. And that’s the answer I can give you. Under the PTELL laws that it is now 09700081.doc 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 the aggregate extension base is used in calculating any increase allowed, and for most taxing districts the aggregate extension base is the previous year's…"

"Yeah, but if a person is at their maximum allowable rate…"

"Representative, I'll give you another minute, one more minute."

"Thank you, Speaker. If a district is at their maximum allowable rate and their EAV goes down, they will have a reduction to match that… the rate times their EAV, correct? They'd have a built in thing if they… if they're already taxing at their maximum allowable rate. Where a district that's not at their rate, they would just raise their rate in order to…"

"Right."

"…achieve the amount of money they want."

"Well, I… I think they ought to be commended for being fiscally prudent and not asking the taxpayers for more than what they needed, but they shouldn’t then also get a windfall simply because they didn’t tax up to a rate that they could have."

"Well, they don’t have a windfall because they're still under the PTELL. And this only affects counties under PTELL, correct?"

"Only under PTELL, and only, only, only if property values are declining."

"Okay. I'm going to sit down and lis…"

"And hopefully… hopefully next year we won't… we'll never have to… this law won't go into effect." 09700081.doc 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011

"I was going to say, I was going to sit down unless you had more things to say, but I guess you did. So, thank you, Representative."

"Thanks."

"Representative Dennis Reboletti."

"Sponsor yields."

"No, but I'd be happy that you introduce that Bill."

"No, I think that’s a good follow-up Bill. This Bill is going to run clean, though."

"That’s exactly what PTELL is right now. We're not changing the underlying PTELL. I think you've asked good questions but we're dealing with the PTELL law and we're amending the PTELL law to who it mat… you know, and who it 09700081.doc 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 affects. Ultimately, as I said in the beginning on the discussion, maybe after this Bill passes we can get serious about changing how we fund our schools."

"It's really been the legislature's failure to act and failure to make sure that these folks get paid appropriately that were in this position. But because we're in this crisis, that’s why we have to respond to it."

"It's our fault; we should clean up our own mess."

"Representative Franks to close."

"Well, I appreciate the energy on the floor and I know people are passionate about this issue. We all are. But let's be very clear what this Bill does. It does not take away anybody's money. And the notion that somehow that government should get automatic increases every year regardless of what the citizens have to give is just wrong. Now the original Bill helped 20 years ago, but times have changed and the PTELL law must be amended because what was first passed 20 years ago instead of helping our citizens is driving them out of their homes. This is a Bill that 09700081.doc 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011 does not cut the amount that local bodies receive from the year before; they will get that this year. Nothing in this Bill would not allow the local taxing bodies to ask the citizens for more money. This is just stopping the stealth tax increases that happen every year. We have to get away from the mindset that government will continue to grow unabated regardless of the citizen's ability to pay. We can not do this to our citizens. We must protect them; this Bill will do it. And with… and if we do… do a sunset provision, that could take away a lot of the angst. We're waiting to hear from some of those interested parties. And I'm happy to have that amended in the Senate if necessary, but this is a Bill that really can't wait. And if you see the statistics that are happening in our state with record foreclosures and record bankruptcies and people losing their homes it affects each and every one of our constituents. Please vote 'aye'."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, this Bill will require 71 votes to pass and Representative Sacia has asked for a verification. So, Members, vote your own switches. All those in favor of the passing of House Bill 3793 vote 'yes'; those opposed vote 'no'. The voting is opening. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Colvin, Connelly, Flowers. Mr. Clerk… Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there are 34 Members voting 'yes', 73 Members voting 'no', 5 Members voting 'present'. And the Bill fails. Mr. Clerk, what's the status, on page 5 of the Calendar, of Senate Bill 2408?" 09700081.doc 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011

"Representative Mautino on Floor Amendment #2."

"Thank you. This Amendment is identical to language which passed through here in the first part of the Veto Session. And it creates a new line item appropriation for the chairman of the local panel, under the Labor Relations Board and appropriates zero dollars to that line. And also under the State Lottery it appropriates zero dollars to that line. The reason that this is necessary is because when we passed the budget on those two positions there was no line where we could actually pay these people. So, it corrects a mistake. It comes at the request of the Comptroller. I'd ask for adoption."

Speaker Lyons: "You've heard the Gentleman's explanation. Representative Davis, do you want to wait 'til we put this on Third for your question? This is the Amendment. Okay. All those in favor of the adoption of Floor Amendment #2 signify by saying 'yes'; those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. And Floor Amendment #2 is adopted. Anything further, Mr. Clerk?"

"Third Reading. And read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Leader Frank Mautino." 09700081.doc 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011

"Thank you. And we passed this Bill out unanimously. We need to actually create a line in the budget for those two positions so that these positions can actually be paid. Be happy to answer any questions."

"Representative Will Davis. Sponsor yields." Davis, W.: "Thank you very much. One of the positions you said is the superintendent of the State Lottery?"

"Yes, that's correct." Davis, W.: "So, if I'm not mistaken we privatized the Lottery, correct? Did we not privatize the Lottery? Don't we have private managers for…"

"No." Davis, W.: "We don’t…"

"Just certain operations within the Lottery. The Lottery itself is still a function of the state. There's certain operations: IT, control of the machines, setting up placement that are, but the actual function of the Lottery is still under the state jurisdiction." Davis, W.: "It's still under the state jurisdiction."

"Correct." Davis, W.: "Okay. Does the… does the superintendent position currently exist?"

"Yes. We just forgot to put a line in the budget for it." Davis, W.: "And who is that person right now?"

"Mike Jones." Davis, W.: "Mike Jones?"

"Mike Jones. Sounds like a fine upstanding young man." Davis, W.: "Okay. Mike Jones." 09700081.doc 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011

"He's obviously there. We'd like to pay him just… I'm sure his family would appreciate it too." Davis, W.: "Okay, Rep… Well, I was just curious about that, Representative. Okay. Thank you very much."

"Representative Roger Eddy."

"Sponsor yields."

"It is… These two salaries are actually paid out of the Comptroller's contingency fund, but we didn’t have that line within the budget to authorize her to go and pay these people. So, the money is there. We don’t need any… we just need basically a line so she has the authority to pay them."

"And this is the Comptroller's Bill by the way."

"She has a contingency fund in her current budget allocation right now, which is actually designed to pay for this and other unforeseen items."

"The idea behind the fund to do these things, for example, if the Legislator passes away in office and there's a payout that’s necessary, it was an unexpected expense, she has the allocation authority to do that. And that’s… this is the language that she needs to be put in place so that she can pay these two positions from her contingency."

"It's… her contingency is …is GRF."

"Yeah."

"In her …in her existing budget she has a…"

"…we don’t need to put an additional line or an additional number in because she has the discretionary authority…"

"…within her contingency fund."

"And she has the money to do this."

"Representative Mautino to close."

"Appreciate an ‘aye’ vote." 09700081.doc 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011

"Okay. Ladies and Gentlemen, this Bill will require 71 votes for passage. All those in favor for the passage of Senate Bill 2408 vote ‘yes’; those opposed vote ‘no’. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Evans. Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this Bill, there's 113 Members voting ‘yes’, 0 voting ‘no’, 0 voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Supermajority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Roger Eddy on a Motion."

"Representative makes the Motion for suspend… to suspend posting. Seeing no objection, all those in favor signify by saying ‘yes’; those opposed say ‘no’. In the opinion of the Chair, the ‘ayes’ have it. And the Motion carries. Mr. Clerk, Agreed Resolutions."

"Representative Jefferson moves for the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. All those in favor signify by saying ‘yes’; those opposed say ‘no’. In the opinion of the Chair, the ‘ayes’ have it. And the Agreed Resolutions are adopted. Representative Barickman."

"For what purpose do you seek recognition, Sir?"

"Please proceed, Representative."

Speaker Lyons: "Congratulations, gentlemen, welcome to your Capitol. Representative Randy Ramey, for what purpose do you seek recognitions." 09700081.doc 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 81st Legislative Day 11/8/2011

"Please proceed, Randy."

"Mr. Clerk."

"On behalf of the White Sox Legislative Caucus, Randy, congratulations to you. Representative Eddy."

"Mr. Clerk. Ladies and Gentlemen, there’s a updated schedule for committee meetings so heads up. Mr. Clerk."

"And now, seeing no further business to come before the Illinois House of Representatives, Representative Barbara Flynn Currie moves that the House stand adjourned to the hour of 10 a.m. on Wednesday, November 5. Allowing perfunctory time for the Clerk, all those in favor of adjournment signify by saying ‘yes’; those opposed say ‘no’. In the opinion of the Chair, the ‘ayes’ have it. And the House stands adjourned 'til 10 a.m. tomorrow morning, Wednesday, November 9. Have an enjoyable evening, everyone."