Illinois House Floor Debate — November 29, 2011

"The House will be in order. We shall be led in prayer today by Lee Crawford, the Pastor of the Cathedral of Praise Christian Center in Springfield. Members and guests are asked to refrain from starting their laptops, turn of all cell phone and pagers, and rise for the invocation and Pledge of Allegiance. Pastor Crawford."

"We will be led in the Pledge of Allegiance today by Representative Nybo." Nybo – et al: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, 09700086.doc 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Speaker Lang: "Roll Call for Attendance. Leader Currie. Leader Currie."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Please let the record reflect the excused absences of Representatives Hernandez, May, and Yarbrough."

"Mr. Bost."

Speaker Lang: "Thank you, Mr. Bost. Mr. Clerk, take the record. 113 Members present, there is a quorum and the House is ready to do the business of the people. The Chair recognizes Mr. Jackson for a point of personal privilege."

"Mr. Speaker, personal privilege. I would like to introduce the replacement for Mr. Thomas Holbrook of the 113 District, my new seatmate, Mr. Scott Penny."

"Welcome to the House of Representatives. The Chair recognizes Representative Penny."

"I'm very honored to be here. My background is law enforcement and village administration. I've had a wonderful experience so far this morning and I look forward to working with everyone in the room. Thank you."

"Thank you, Representative. Welcome aboard. Mr. Winters."

"State your point, Sir." 09700086.doc 2  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Thank you, Representative. The Chair recognizes Mr. Unes."

"Please state your point, Sir."

"Congratulations, Representative. Mr. Clerk." 09700086.doc 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Leader Currie moves for the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. Those in favor say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Motion is adopted. Mr. Clerk, on page 4 of the Calendar, under… Mr. Clerk, Committee Report."

"On page 4 of the Calendar, under the Order of Senate Bills-Second Reading, appears Senate Bill 1609. Please read the Bill."

"Leader Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker. I move adoption of Amendment #2 to Senate Bill 1609. This would change the date upon which the Governor presents to us his budget address for the coming fiscal year from the third Wednesday in February to the fourth Wednesday in February. This change was not requested by the Governor. It was requested by us because we're not going to be here the third Wednesday in February and if we don't approve this change, the odds are good the 09700086.doc 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 Governor will have to call us in. So, I encourage adoption of the Amendment and passage of the Bill on Third Reading."

Speaker Lang: "The Lady moves for the adoption of the Amendment. On that question, the Chair recognizes Mr. Biss."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Lady yields."

"One quick question of clarification. In House Amendment #2 on page 3 and line 17, the Bill inserts the words 'budget statements' in a Section on reporting requirements. Could you explain the… the role of this insertion?"

"Yeah. It's a technical change. It doesn't make any substantive changes to reporting requirements, doesn't impose any new requirements. It's just to reconcile some conflicting changes that were made by several different Public Acts. So, it's a technical correction only."

"Thank you very much."

"David Harris." Harris, D.: "A question please of the Sponsor?"

"The Lady yields." Harris, D.: "Representative, you mentioned that if we weren't here the Governor would have to call us in. Could the Governor give his message to an empty chamber?"

"I suppose that would be his alternative." Harris, D.: "Thank you."

Speaker Lang: "Those in favor of the Amendment say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Please read the Bill for the third time."

"Leader Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker. The Bill was thoroughly explained on Second Reading. I appreciate your 'aye' votes."

"Those in favor of the Bill shall vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Representative Chapa LaVia and Franks. Have all voted who wish? Please take the record. On this question, there are 113 voting 'yes', 0 voting 'no'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Moving down the page, Senate Bill 1830. Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Please read the Bill for a third time."

"Leader Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker and Members of the House. In early 2010, in response to a… a terrible disaster at the Burr Oak Cemetery in Alsip, Illinois, the General Assembly made significant changes to our cemetery and funeral requirements. Those changes, however, have created some 09700086.doc 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 significant problems for some of the particularly small cemeteries, especially in downstate Illinois. Legislation has passed this chamber previously, and also the Senate. And so, what this measure does is to take agreements between the Senate and the House, does not change the basic, regulatory frame work that we adopted in… in response to the Burr Oak problem, but it does make changes that will make it possible for those small cemeteries to continue operating. I would appreciate your support, and I would be happy to answer your questions."

"The Lady moves for the passage of the Bill. The Chair recognizes Mr. Moffitt."

"The Lady yields."

"There are no known opponents."

"Are they what?"

"Yeah. And you will… you will. You'd have to be licensed unless for some other reason you were exempt. But I… I think the important thing here is that a lot of these 09700086.doc 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 small cemeteries, under the Bill that we originally passed, are going to find it financially impossible for them to continue their work. And part of the point of this Bill is to ease financial requirements on those very small operations so that they don't turn the cemeteries over to us. We have enough financial problems of our own."

"The… the exempt… the current exemptions are based on the… on the number of burials also the size."

"Could… could you repeat that question?"

"Yeah."

"Under three acres would be one of the grounds for exemption. And if you haven't done a burial in the last 10 years, you would be exempt, as well. Now, there are many small cemeteries that will continue to be licensed and regulated under this measure, and that was true under the Bill that we… that already is law. But we are trying to ease the financial and regulatory burden for those smaller operations."

"I do." 09700086.doc 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Exactly. Exactly. And…"

"Exactly. And as I say, we have enough fiscal problems of our own. I don't think we want to be picking up the fiscal responsibilities of all those smaller downstate and rural cemeteries. And I believe without passage of this Bill, we run the risk that that's exactly what will happen."

"That's exactly right."

"Mr. Brady."

"The Sponsor will yield."

"This is… yes."

"And it was…"

"Could you restate the last part of your question, Sir?"

"I believe this is identical language to language adopted with a very significant… a majority by the House last year under your own sponsorship."

"Yeah."

"The Environmental Protection Agency would still have to do permitting under… under this language just as it would've under the language you… you offered last year." 09700086.doc 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"No, but the I… IEPA would still have to… to deal with any kind of effects with respect to air pollution, so they would continue to have that authority."

"Right. Okay. Soil. Right."

"Representative, that's current law. And under an agreement between the Comptroller, the Department of Professional and Financial Regulation, and the Governor's Office, the decision was made to retain that authority within the office of the Comptroller. Our Comptroller has a very good track record in this respect. And following some tragedy in Georgia…"

"…a lot of other states are following precisely our model."

"But… that is correct, but the point… the point I'm making is that there had been then… since then, an agreement between the Comptroller's Office, the Governor's Office, IDFPR to re… to leave that regulation within the hands of the Comptroller whose track record is excellent. And as I say, following a disaster in Georgia, a lot of other states are following this model when they are crafting new legislation to avoid that kind of tragedy."

"So, I haven't…"

"Yeah. And we don't know. It's not been long enough for us to know, but no one has…"

"Nobody… no… well, we've seen no problems with the regulation of crematories. The problem that led us to that Bill in 2010 was a problem with, as you will recall, a cemetery, not a crematory."

"And the auditing and investigative functions currently performed by the Comptroller's Office have, to my knowledge, been performed adequately, appropriately. There's no reason to duplicate those activities someplace else. And as I say, the track record to date looks pretty good. If over time we develop a problem, I'm sure that you and I can work together to make a change."

"Well, all I can tell you is there are 33 stand-alone crematories, 56 that are affiliated with funeral homes, 17 that are affiliated with and located in cemeteries. And again, I have not been privy to information suggesting that what the Comptroller's has done through its audit and investigative staff is not adequate to the task."

"Mr. Brady, can you bring your remarks to a close, Sir?"

"Well, Mr. Brady, we have other people that want to speak to this Bill."

"Members, there are still six of you that wish to speak on this Bill. It's on Short Debate. I have not used the timer, but please be as brief as possible in your questions and comments. Mr. Pritchard." 09700086.doc 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"The Leader yields."

"They are not exempt if they've had burials within the last 10 years, but we… in under this Bill, we have reduced fees, we have shortened regulations, and we have also reduced maximum monetary penalties. That is why the…"

"Yeah. They would be regulated. Abso… that doesn't change under this Bill, except that there have been some reductions in fees and some reductions in… in maximum penalties."

"The department will… can… under this legislation, the department has the authority to offer a waiver, and I assume that that would happen when you have a small cemetery run by a volunteer board; a cemetery that doesn't have any real resources."

"And those, of course, are the very cemeteries that brought these issues to our attention. There seemed to be a suggestion that a lot were going to just plain go out of business and leave their cemeteries for us to manage. And I don't know that from a fiscal perspective or a management perspective, that the Illinois General Assembly wants to say that our state, because we didn't set the right framework, is going to have to take care of all these cemeteries that otherwise were in good hands."

"Well, and in fact, the Township Association does support this measure because that, of course, was the other risk."

"But that was not a crematorium. That was a cemetery. The… the distinction that I'm making is between crematoriums and cemeteries. My point is that the crematoriums have traditionally been regulated by the office of the Comptroller, both in terms of audits and investigations. The tragedy at Burr Oak was not about a crematorium that had not been adequately regulated, it was about a cemetery. And in this Bill, ceme… the… the 09700086.doc 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 structural framework we set following Burr Ridge has not been changed, not altered, under this Bill."

"We did not…"

"Again, I can only point to the fact that there was not a problem with the Comptroller's regulation of crematoriums. And an agreement between the Comptroller's Office, the Governor's Office, IDFPR, a witness support of all these groups that… like the Township Officials says let's leave that where it has traditionally been. If problems develop down the road, Representative, I know that you and I will work closely together to make sure we fix them."

"I appreciate your comment."

"Mr. Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Majority Leader yield?"

"The Lady will yield."

"Thank you. Representative, why do we need this Bill?" 09700086.doc 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"We need it because there are a variety of small… a large number of small cemeteries, primarily downstate, that are finding the new regulations, and fees, and fines so difficult to manage that they're about to go out of business. They're about to… volunteer boards are about to turn their backs on cemeteries. Some of… many of which… most of which have been in existence for well more than 100 years. They have come to us and they have said, we're going to walk away. And when they walk away, either the township or the State of Illinois is going to have to manage and pay for those cemeteries. So, responding to those issues, we have not made a… a structural change but we have said, yes, we can relieve some of the fees and fines. We can relieve you of some of those regulations that are so burdensome you can't manage."

"Is this is response to the Bill that we had passed last year with the crisis in Chicago?"

"This is a trailer to that. That was in early 2010, and actually this House did pass follow-up legislation in, I believe, the spring. This measure before you now is a little bit different. It tries to… tries to… to work with a different… a slightly different measure that passed the Senate. So we looked for areas of agreement between the House and the Senate, and that's what you see in Senate Bill 1830. The Catholic Conference, the Township Officials, the Illinois Funeral and Cemetery Association all stand in strong support of this measure."

"Let me ask you specifics. Are there any fee increases in this Bill?" 09700086.doc 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"There is one fee increase and that has to do with death certificate. There are 52 fee reductions."

"Okay."

"So, you know, on balance… on balance the fee structure is lower, but there is one specific fee that goes up."

"Okay. And I noticed that you are limiting the amount of the criminal penalties. You're actually reducing those from 10 thousand to 8 thousand. I'm… like to know the rationale for that."

"Again, this was a negotiation between the cemeteries, the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation, the Governor's Office and, again, this has the support of the department that is charged with the regulating."

"Well, no, I… I understand. I just don't understand why we'd ever reduce a criminal penalty when we had such outrageous occurrences in Chicago."

"It isn't a criminal penalty. It's a disciplinary action, and it may be that we overreached when we set it at $10 thousand, especially since… and that could mean someone left the grass too high."

"Oh. Well, that's a different issue."

"You know, you can be disciplined for leaving the grass too high. Well, if you didn't get your mower sharpened early enough in the spring, it's a little harsh to hit somebody with a $10 thousand fine."

"And I… I also noticed that it looks as though we had deleted… or this Bill would delete fingerprint requirements."

"For some…" 09700086.doc 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"What's the rationale?"

"For some because some of the people that continue to be regulated are the managers and the customer service representatives. The guy who cuts the grass, you know, we didn't think that person needed to undergo a fingerprint background check. So, there are costs associated with… with imposing that kind of requirement. People who have nothing to do with the relationship between the customer and the cemetery, people who are ancillary employees, we don’t see any reason why we should have said in the beginning that they need to be fingerprinted."

"But the other ones who would have direct contact with the deceased…"

"Yeah."

"…would still have to be fingerprinted." Currie: "Anyone who has contact with the family will still have the fingerprint check, and these other ancillary employees, the guy who's mowing the lawn, we'll still be doing a background check, just not the fingerprint check."

"Thank you."

"Representative Monique Davis." Davis, M.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Speak… Will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Lady yields." Davis, M.: "Thank you. Leader Currie, you do know the reason for the original legislation was to protect those who use cemeteries from being violated at their neediest time. You do know that Burr Oak occurred because of the total lack of regulations in the State of Illinois of cemeteries. Now, I 09700086.doc 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 know they don't want to be regulated. It's one of the few businesses in the State of Illinois that just don't want any regulations. And I really find it hard to swallow, hard to swallow, that the only fee increase goes to the families of the people who have died. There's no increase for the cemetery to monitor what they should be doing. Now, the purpose of this legislation, the original piece, was to prevent another Burr Oak. And personally, no… nothing against you, I see absolutely nothing in here that will prevent another Burr Oak. All I see that we have done is increase the fees, for people who have died, on their families. And I… I don't like that. Why didn't we charge the cemeteries the $2 per burial?"

"Well, in fact…" Davis, M.: "Why didn't we make them have to pay?"

"In fact, we're reducing 52 fees that ultimately are paid by the family in this Bill. And when it comes to a strong, regulatory framework, when it comes to preventing future Burr Ridges, this is going to be… Burr Oaks, this is going to be as far as I can tell, after passage of 1830… Senate Bill 1830, Illinois will have the strongest regulatory structure in this country. Our state regulation will be stronger than cemetery regulation in any other state. I believe that in the wake of the tragedy, we may have overreached. We may have created some problems that mean that smaller cemeteries are just going to walk away. That is not good public policy." Davis, M.: "Let me ask this question." 09700086.doc 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"So, this effort is not to undercut the ability of our regulatory agency to prevent future tragedies, but it is to make sure that it's a reasonable proposition that the regulation is not so heavy-handed that people are pushed out of the business." Davis, M.: "Leader Currie, let me ask this question. If I go into a cemetery and I want to know where my person is buried, what are the protections that are left in your legislation to help these people identify where their loved ones are buried?"

"And under the legislation adopted in early 2010, we have created a database, a database that is kept by the state that means every cemetery has to identify where every body is buried. And that was the right response, absolutely the right response, after that terrible tragedy. That is in place and nothing in this Bill… nothing in this Bill undercuts the responsibility of every cemetery to make sure that we know where the bodies are buried." Davis, M.: "Well… Thank you, Rep… Representative. To the Bill, Mr. Speaker. I just think we're leaving cemeteries, once again, unregulated. Maybe that's what we want to do. My question, and my final question, to this Body is, are we afraid the cemeteries will leave and take their stock with them. Maybe they'll take that property that they have with them if they leave our state. Maybe that's why we're fearful of putting in strong regulations against cemeteries. There are over 27 cemeteries in my district and I want them to be responsible for the… to the people who use them. I'm not going to urge a 'no' vote, because I 09700086.doc 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 think perhaps people are kind of tired of meeting, and some are tired of being excluded from the meeting, so maybe we ought to let the Bill pass."

"Mr. Saviano."

"Mr. Dunkin. Mr. Dunkin passes. Mr. Eddy."

"The Lady yields."

"That's exactly right, and that… that was the fear that lead to the drafting and the offering of Senate Bill 1830. The townships don't want to have to take responsibility. They can't afford it. Neither does the state. We can't afford it."

"But we have small volunteered…"

"…cemeteries who told us that under the Bill that we passed in 2010, they were going to walk away."

"So, I… I would say that for even the larger cemeteries, the licensure requirements for the guy who's mowing the lawn may have been excessive. The fines that could be allocated by the department, whether you're a little cemetery or a big cemetery, 'cause the grass is too high, might be excessive. To me, the important thing is that there is a strong regulatory structure within the Department of Professional and Financial Regulation, there is. To me, it is critical that there continues to be, at the state level, a database; a database of where and who is buried in what plots. And in fact, there's an improvement in this Bill because the cemeteries are going to have to provide maps, not just the raw information, but the maps. Now, I can tell you that a lot of cemeteries never liked the database. But if you want to prevent the tragedy that we saw at Burr Oak, if you want to make sure that we have a strong regulatory structure, to me, that is key and critical. And I would say requiring that they provide us with maps is equally important. So, I would say that in many respects this measure strengthens what was already on the books, but it does recognize that you don't have to special licensure for everybody in a cemetery area."

"Only…"

"Let… let me just say that that will continue to be a requirement for any newly created cemetery authority. The preexisting ones, most of them have been around for a century or more, and what we are going to do is to let… make sure that we can find out what resources they have available actually to do the job. But to establish this new sufficient financial resources is one of the reasons all those small cemetery volunteer boards said we are out of here, we are walking."

"They're going to have to show us what their assets and liabilities are. In effect, they're going to have to show us their finances. They are not, not, out of any 09700086.doc 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 responsibilities of showing about ethical conduct or good conduct. That is not in this Bill."

"To the Department of Professional and Financial Regulations."

"Yes."

"I think…"

"They can… they can deny an application for that reason, or for a bunch of other reasons."

"Mr. Kay."

"The Lady yields."

"We are establishing a $2 fee for the death certificate to provide…"

"…resources for the department to regulate the industry."

"We are also reducing or eliminating 52 fees…"

"…that were in the Bill as originally adopted."

"First of all, this is an increase and this increase, the $2 increase, would go to the department. Of the money that already is required, there is a special fund that is supposed to help precisely those cemeteries you described. That does not change under this Bill. So, the fund that will have helped the distressed, the cemeteries without resources will still be available for that purpose."

"No."

"Yeah. Well…"

"…except the fee that's already in place would… has a fund that is available precisely for that, and the additional $2 on top is… is really for the enforcement of the program."

"So, there will be money available, but it isn't a directly… this extra $2."

"I'm saying there's money available for the distressed cemeteries. You got it." 09700086.doc 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Mr. Sacia."

"Mr. Brady, do you need more time, Sir? You don't have to take it. It'd be all right if you didn't take it."

"I guess you do."

"The Lady yields."

"I don't know if the Comptroller keeps that information or not."

"The… the Department of Public Health, I believe, keeps information about… about crematory deaths."

"What do you…"

"Mr. Morthland."

"Final speaker is Mr. Mautino."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I just want to commend the Sponsor for working together on the compromised legislation with a lot of the groups. I've heard from the… I know that the Comptroller's in favor of it, the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation, the Cemetery and Funeral Home Association, Farm Bureau, Township Officials, Catholic Conference, and the Service Corporation International. When we first did the original 09700086.doc 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 Bill, it created a lot of problems downstate with the… the smaller cemeteries. And we've had the situation actually in my area where cemeteries have been abandoned because of some of the trouble getting trustees, the number of checks that were required. And inside of the Bill, those requirements have been made manageable for a small, family- run, or mun… like a small municipal cemetery, and can help avoid some of the situations where they've actually, as in… as in two within my area, have been just abandoned because there's no one willing to take these volunteer, nonpaid spots, a lot due to the overkill that resulted in a Bill that was necessary to correct some very serious problems, but the solution created a great many downstate problems. And so, I wanted to say thank you for your work and the staff's work on addressing that portion of the issues. And for that, I'd also stand in support of the Bill and ask for an 'aye' vote."

"Leader Currie to close."

"Thank you, Speaker. Just a couple of points: first of all, restoring to the Comptroller's Office the authority to oversee an audit, crematoriums, was in a Bill that was passed overwhelmingly by this House in the spring of 2011. This is not a new issue. Secondly: providing for the legitimacy of an alternate kind of cremation, that too, although apparently a red flag today, was in a Bill that passed this House overwhelmingly during the Spring Session. Thirdly: people have raised questions about whether there will be ethical conduct requirements of cemetery managers, owners, and customer service representatives. Let me read 09700086.doc 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 you some of that Code. They would have to treat all human remains with proper care and dignity, honoring known religious, ethnic and personal beliefs, protect all confidential information, carry out all aspects of service in a competent, respectful manner, fulfill all written and verbal agreements and contracts, and so on, and so on, and so on. The reality is that the ethical requirements and the background checks for the owners, the managers, and the customer service representatives will make sure that the regulatory program we adopted in 2010 continues to be the strongest regulatory program for cemeteries in this… in the United States of America. This Bill does have the support of the Farm Bureau, the Township Association, the Illinois Funeral and Cemetery Association, the Catholic Conference. I urge your 'aye' vote."

"Those in favor of the Bill shall vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Record yourselves please, Members. Have all voted who wish? Representative Tryon and Winters. Please take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 6… 91 voting 'yes', 22 voting 'no'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. The Chair recognizes Mr. Brown."

"Please state your point, Sir."

Speaker Lang: "Congratulations. Congratulations. Representative Flowers, would you like to introduce your guest to us?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to introduce to everyone in the House of Representatives my granddaughter, Madison Jolie Perry. She's at… in the front with Representative Connie Howard. Would you please give my granddaughter a hand? Thank you."

"Thank you. Welcome. Ladies and Gentlemen, on page 9 of the Calendar, under the Order of Concurrence appears House Bill 3813. Mr. Cross."

"I don't blame you, Mr. Cross."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, can we give Mr. Cross your undivided attention, please. It's an important piece of legislation. Ladies and Gentlemen."

"Mr. Schmitz."

"Gentleman yields." 09700086.doc 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Leader Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker, and Members of the House. This… my remarks have very much to do with legislative intent and I hope that you will all be willing to bear with me. There are very significant differences between the Bill we sent 09700086.doc 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 the Senate and the Senate version that's in front of us today. I think there are some significant changes that could significantly affect current members on the current… public employees who are on a leave of absence and current retirees who took, at some point in their careers, a leave… a leave. The Pension Code requires that people who are on a leave of absence from a municipal or whatever job to make contributions when they're on a union job based on their salary at the labor organization, but the Code doesn't say whether for… whether they're supposed to use the salary earned as the public employee or as the union official when figuring out what the final average salary is for purposes of pension benefits. Now, without that direction, the pension systems have traditionally used the salary received at the labor organization in order to calculate what the final average salary is. Under the Bill we sent the Senate, contributions and final average salary for these public employees who are currently on a leave of absence serving the union would continue to be based on the salary they got at the labor organization. Under the Senate version, current members who are on a leave must make their contributions based on the salary they get from the labor group but their final salary would be based on the salary they actually got as a state or municipal employee with a cost of living adjustment for each year they're on leave. As well, the Senate version says that only the salary that's received as a state or municipal employee can be used to calculate the final average salary and that this change is 'a declaration of existing law and shall not be 09700086.doc 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 construed as a new enactment'. Okay. The pension systems use the salary earned from the union during the leave of absence when they're figuring out final average salary. The Senate's language seems to say that the pension systems can't use the union salary in the future and in fact, should not have used the union salary in the past. Under this language, the pension systems have to use the members' salary as a state or municipal employee and only that salary when they're figuring out the final average salary. So, current employees on a leave of absence expected that their final average salary would be determined based on their union salary. But the change to the salary used to calculate the benefits that is under the measure, House Bill 3813 Senate Amendments 1 and 2, that is used to calculate the benefits will significantly change their anticipated pension benefits. Further, by saying that this change is declared of an existing law, the General Assembly is telling the pensions that they've been miscalculating benefits for years. Representative Cross told us, for purposes of legislative intent, that the changes in this Bill are not intended to apply to those who retire before the effective date of the Bill or those who are already retired. But given the plain language of the Bill, it's reasonable to assume that the pension funds will need to recalculate the final average salary of any retiree who took leave. This could result in a substantial reduction in benefits or even no benefit for those current retirees. I'd like to point out another change in the Senate version. Under current law, a member cannot simultaneously get 09700086.doc 45  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 pension credit in a public system and a local labor organization pension plan. The House version tried to close an additional loophole by clarifying that the prohibition applies not just to a local labor organization but also to national and international labor pension plans. The Senate version of this lang… does the same thing but adds language stating that this 'is a declaration of existing law and shall not be construed as a new enactment'. Just as with the earlier provision, with this language the General Assembly is telling the pension systems that they have been miscalculating benefits. Again, I would suggest that this could mean a significant reduction in benefits, an end maybe to benefits for individuals who have already retired. One final point, and that is that the Senate version, unlike the House version, only applies the changes, the changes for current and retired… for current employees with respect to how you calculate final average salary and the prohibition on participation in national and international labor pension plans, it only applies these two changes to two Chicago public pension funds. Members of those two funds will be different… treated differently from members of all the other pension funds, teachers, SURS, et cetera. And I think there's a question whether it makes sense to single out two pension plans from all the others in making such significant changes as these. Thank you, Speaker and Members of the House for your indulgence."

"Representative Will Davis." Davis, W.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentleman yields." 09700086.doc 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 Davis, W.: "Leader Cross, as I'm reading the analysis that was provided for us and maybe I'm mincing words, but let me read something to you very quickly. In terms of Senate Amendment #1, a part of our analysis says going forward it effectively shuts down the ability of a member of any state pension fund to continue to earn credit in that pension fund if they take a leave of absence to represent a labor organization. So, it kind of reads that if you take the leave of absence from one pens… from that employment, that you might be able to represent another type of labor organization other than one that's relevant to where you're taking the leave from. Like in the instance when we're talking about the teacher issue, we're talking about a leave of absence or teaching then representing a teacher's union, but what about if the employment and the labor organization aren't two that we would generally think are compatible in that respect?"

"Mr. Tryon."

"Gentleman yields."

"Mr. Mautino."

"Thanks, Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Leader Cross will yield."

"Leader, in looking at the Bill and I understand and I heard your legislative intent, but in the language of the Bill itself, it would appear that you are or whoever these people may be, and I'm not sure it doesn't apply to current employees or current retirees, they would be paying in at a higher level than the value of the benefit that's going to be received after this Bill becomes law. Was that your… your impression? Is that your understanding of the Bill?"

"Sure. For those who are paying in, once we cap the benefit at a lower level the contributions are being paid in at a higher level for a benefit that is worth less than that normal level of contribution would equate to. Is that correct?"

"Sure. It's…"

"…basically you're paying a higher level in for a benefit you will never receive at that high of a level. So, 09700086.doc 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 under that, doesn't that fall outside of the IRS Code right now for qualified pension plans? I mean, I like the Bill that we passed originally. What I'm just wondering is in this Bill are we now setting ourselves up for, one, a ruling that it is not qualified as a pension fund because of that."

"Is much better."

"Okay. And I guess that's, you know, we deal every day here with the law of unintended consequences and in looking at this, I respect the Bill that you worked on that left this chamber, I do believe that this piece of work came… that came back has some serious, serious flaws, one of them being just it's not a qualified pension plan if you're paying more than the benefit received. So, you're out of line with the entire IRS Code."

"So, I mean, that's… that to me is big, but also in the language within the Bill, what I fear is people who have retired, because this provision has been in law and has been legal for quite a long time, who have retired will find the benefits that they had, though properly attained, reduced while in their retirement and I think that's… that's a big fear. I think both of our counsels have talked to the Senate about that potentially being a big problem with this Bill and an unintended consequence regardless of the language that we say versus what's in the Bill."

"Well, I know we have two separate… and I appreciate that, Leader, and I know your work on this issue. I think the May Bill that went through on the first round, the original Bill, crafted properly, it dealt with things going forward and it could withstand constitutional challenges. But also, I fear that just in the language of the Bill that we're also going to take some folks and give them a surprise in which the pensions they've been working for and living on may all of a sudden be reduced by this action. So, I just caution that."

"Okay."

"And I understand that and I understand in both of those situations, but there's a… there's a potential impact on… on thousands of other people who taught for 30 years, did everything right, went and took a job, maybe working for their union or their association, going out and doing training, whatever. Going forward that 30-year person has now retired at 38 years which a teacher has to go to… I use a teacher as an example although it could apply in other areas. Where I'm concerned on the retroactive is somebody worked for 30 years and legitimately did this, there's a 09700086.doc 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 potential that because of the two the many can get hurt and that's…"

"I don't worry about constitutionality, just people."

"And I know you're not."

"I just think the Bill is."

"Thanks."

"Mr. Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Leader yield?"

"Leader Cross yields."

"Leader, I appreciate your efforts on this and I think you've done a very good job on this Bill. I just wanted to reiterate some of the comments that I… of Mr. Mautino and the Majority Leader. And I… he just asked the last question if we needed a trailer Bill and I think you answered in the affirmative that that wouldn't be a problem."

"I appreciate that and you incorporated one Bill that we had passed just a few weeks ago, a Bill that I helped author with Mr. Morthland addressing the two individuals 09700086.doc 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 who were able to get into the TRS retirement system though they were neither teachers nor administrators. The way you've drafted the Bill, is it substantially different than the one that we had drafted?"

"Ours is…"

"Ours is different. And I… and I'm not sure whether the repeat mets… I'm only concerned about the constitutional aspects. So, I guess I'm going to support your Bill and let's hopefully we can get the Bill that we passed two weeks ago and the Senate passed, as well, in sort of a belt and suspenders way 'cause I'm not sure which one would work. So, I'm just concerned that if this Bill passes that they won't call the Bill that we passed in the House. Is there any agreement to that effect that you're aware of?"

"Okay."

"Wonderful. Well, I really, again, appreciate your efforts and I encourage an 'aye' vote. And if we need to make any tweaks when we come back, hopefully, we can get to that the first week when we're back at the end of January. So, I encourage an 'aye' vote."

"Mr. Cross to close."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, please give Mr. Cross your attention."

"Mr. Cross moves that the House concur in Senate Amendments #1 and 2 to House Bill 3813. This is final action. Those in favor of the Gentleman's Motion vote 09700086.doc 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Please record yourselves, Members. Have all voted who wish? Chapa LaVia, Colvin, Golar. Mr. Colvin, Mr. Go… Representative Golar. Please take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question, there are 108 voting 'yes', 4 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. And the House does concur with Senate Amendments #1 and 2 to House Bill 3813. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. The Chair recognizes Representative Bill Mitchell." Mitchell, B.: "Thank you, Mr… Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Point of personal privilege."

"Please state your point, Sir." Mitchell, B.: "Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would like the girls' cross country team Champions, 1A; they're in the Speaker's Gallery. Would they rise, please? They're from… they're guest of Representative Adam Brown and myself. They won the 1A Championship in cross country. Let's give them a big Illinois welcome."

"Thank you, Representative. On page 3 of the Calendar, under the Order of Senate-Bills Second Reading, there appears Senate Bill 274, Representative Watson. Mr. Clerk, please read the Bill."

"Third Reading. Please read the Bill for a third time." 09700086.doc 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Mr. Watson."

"The Gentleman moves for the passage of the Bill. There being no debate, those in favor vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Please take the record. On this question, there are 113 voting 'yes', 0 voting 'no'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 348, Representative Feigenholtz. Mr. Clerk, please read the Bill."

"Third Reading. Please read the Bill for a third time."

"Representative Feigenholtz." 09700086.doc 60  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Senate Bill 348 is an initiative from the Department of Human Services. It's a technical change that changes the mental health fund language, allowing the department to pay expenses associated with support services that they provide to other state agencies."

"The Lady moves for the passage of the Bill. There being no debate, those in favor vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Jakobsson. Please take the record. On this question, 113 voting 'yes', 0 voting 'no'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 773, Representative Feigenholtz. Mr. Clerk, please read the Bill."

"Third Reading. Please read the Bill."

"Representative Feigenholtz."

"Thank you again. Senate Bill 773, again, another technical Bill, would deposit the federal matching funds for expenditures made from the Public Aid Recovery Trust Fund into PRTF instead of GRF. I'd appreciate your support." 09700086.doc 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"The Lady moves for the passage of the Bill. The Chair recognizes Mr. Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Lady yields."

"Why do we need this change?"

"Thank you, Representative Franks. The reason we need this change is so we can deposit the federal matching funds into this particular fund. It would decrease pressure and… for the Department of Health and Family Services, which of course you know, we have a lot of bills we need to pay. It would expedite the process."

"Would this increase the match at all? I'm just still not understanding why…"

"No."

"…we need to do this."

"No."

"When you say decreased pressure, I… I'm not sure I understand what that means."

"It doesn't cost any money. It's just putting it into a different fund."

"But again, why? Why do we need to change the law to do that? Why can't we just deposit where it is and move it over?"

"It allows HFS to pay bills more quickly, which reduces the amount of interest we need to pay so that they do not have to stand in a long general revenue fund line."

"Is this a one time deal or is this going to be from now on that federal matches for expenditures to the Public Aid Recoveries Trust Fund will always go here?" 09700086.doc 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"This is permanent."

"Okay. So, it basically makes the lockbox then?"

"Correct."

"Okay. Thank you."

"Mr. Eddy."

"The Lady yields."

"Public Aid Recovery Trust Fund."

"This is a pot of money that collects the federal match."

"Yes."

"Yes."

"Ah…"

"It doesn't change how much federal money we recoup. It just allows us to expend it more quickly out of 09700086.doc 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 this particular fund, so it doesn't have to wait for a general revenue payout. So the draw on it, the match on it, doesn't change. It's really just a more efficient way of running the department."

"Correct."

"Correct."

"Yes."

"Representative Mulligan."

"The Lady yields."

"Correct."

"That's correct."

"Correct. And it… it wouldn't surprise me, Representative Mulligan, if we could also avert interest payments because this a more efficient way of paying off some things directly from the department. So, you know, this is one of a… of many initiatives, as you know, that the Medicaid Advisory Committee has been working on that the… our committee, the Approp Committee's been working on with the director of HFS so that we can right our ship."

"Those in favor of the Bill vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Record yourselves. Mr. D'Amico, Mr. Arroyo. Mr. D'Amico. Please take the record. On this question, 113 voting 'yes', 0 voting 'no'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 4 of the Calendar appears Senate Bill 1830, Representative Currie. Please read the Bill, Mr. Clerk. I'm sorry. I read the wrong Bill. Senate Bill 1762, Representative Currie. Please read the Bill."

"Leader Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker and Members of the House. Can we just adopt the Amendment and discuss the Bill on Third?"

Speaker Lang: "Seeing no objection, those in favor of the Amendment say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have. And the Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Please read the Bill."

"Leader Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker and Members of the House. In January, this Legislature adopted very significant changes 09700086.doc 66  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 to the state's Medicaid program. Medicaid reform we called it. It was a bipartisan effort. I was pleased to chair our task force with Representative Bellock. But we set very important challenges to our Department of Healthcare and Family Services in that measure. For example, by a date certain, half of all our Medicaid clients are going to be in managed care. In the meantime, the feds have set… Federal Government has set other challenges and requirements for this very same department. The difficulty the department faces is that it's very hard under the current Personnel Code to hire people who have this special expertise, the special qualifications that will make it possible for that department to meet the challenges we face. So, this measure would give the Department of Healthcare and Family Services, for a two-year period, the opportunity to hire 20… no more than 20 people who meet very specific qualifications, which are detailed in the Bill. I would be happy to answer your questions. If we want our department to make sure that our Medicaid program is responsive and effective, I would certainly encourage your 'aye' vote."

"Mr. Eddy."

"The Leader yields."

"Yeah. Veteran's Preference will continue to apply, but what this will do is to say that first someone has to meet these specific qualifications, and having met those qualifications, if there is a veteran, that veteran will take precedence just as happens under the current Personnel Code."

"The Veteran's Preference…"

"…will apply just as it does today."

"Haven't heard a thing."

"That's exactly right."

"Neither can I, and I don't think they do."

"Representative Bellock."

"The Leader yields."

"Good point, Representative. I'm glad you made… made it clear. There is no change in head count for the department. There are no additional resources in terms of new staffing. You're exactly right."

"Representative Feigenholtz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, rise in support of this. You'll note that many of the committee members of Human Services-Appropriations are standing in strong support of this because we now, when we pass this Bill and it becomes law, have an opportunity to really enact some serious reforms that have been obstacles to HFS. We have an opportunity to hold HFS's feet to the fire. If we don't pass this Bill, we can just all sit around, shrug our shoulders, and say we just couldn't get it done. So, this Bill is the answer to many of the problems that we have had. And I look forward to everyone's supporting it, and encourage an 'aye' vote."

"Mr. Leitch."

"Representative Senger."

"The Lady yields."

"That the Medicaid reform process. Is that what…"

"Yeah, exactly. And for example, one of the positions… one of the identified positions would be manager of Medicare/Medicaid coordination so that dual eligibles, for example, could… we could have a better handle on how we… how… how we deal with those. I think there is another position that would deal specifically with the question of making sure that we have a handle on how to make sure there's coordinate care in the Medicaid program. As you know, our legislation earlier, said that 50 percent of Medic… Medicaid clients have to be in managed care by a date certain, and that date certain comes around pretty soon."

"Representative Will Davis." Davis, W.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Lady yields." Davis, W.: "Representative, does this Bill in any way offer ranking of potential candidates or create lists of potential candidates that the director of HFS would have to systematically work down in order to find the appropriate candidate, or does she have the ability to pick and choose whomever she might want to hire for a particular position?"

"She would have to advertise these positions, and then people who would come fill out an application would have to show they meet the qualifications. And within that context, anybody who meets the qualifications and who is a veteran would get absolute preference. But the point here is to say that because, under the current personnel rules, she's often offered people who got an A on the Central Management Services very general exam, and who had four years of college, but they may not have any special expertise in information technology, in health care systems, in the Medicaid program. In all of those areas where we have set her, and the Federal Government has set that agency, very significant challenges, she has not been able to hire people who have the qualifications to do the job. So, this measure is intended to identify what those qualifications are that are required to meet those challenges. So anybody who applies, and we hope she can find people who are interested in working for State Government and who do meet these requirements." 09700086.doc 72  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 Davis, W.: "Well, I can appreciate that, but I guess ultimately what I'm trying to get at is that if she has the ability to kind of pick and choose… you know, and not saying that they're not qualified candidates, but in terms of who, then to me that gives her the ability to skip over qualified African-American potential candidates if she has the ability to pick and choose. And I can honestly say, and I understand that this is being recorded, and for the record that I don't have any confidence in the director of HFS to select qualified African-American candidates to be quite honest with you. And so, my concern would be if this gives her that ability to do so and she can pick and choose who she wants, that these positions will not be filled by qualified African Americans."

"Well, my… my understanding is that… that she will have to treat all applicants with respect to gender and race and other… other background qualifications the same. And she would not be able to say, I'm going to choose the white guy rather than the African-American woman." Davis, W.: "Well, but if… but if she has the ability to… if she has a list, and she can choose from anybody on the list, you're right. She won't have to say that. She can just pick who she wants."

"My understanding is that if you look at this Bill, right now, today, the Department of Natural Resources, the Department of Transportation, any number of other agencies of State Government have pretty much carte blanche when it comes to hiring people with particular expertise, engineering for example. And there's no specificity about 09700086.doc 73  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 what those qualifications are. You haven't been raising questions about whether given that latitude, those agency directors are discriminating against individual applicants. In this… the language in Senate Bill 1762 is not general. It doesn't say, oh, just hire somebody who's got an MBA, and then gives the director of the department to pick and choose among them. It specifies very clear and very stringent qualifications for these 20 positions. So, what you're raising as a possibility, I think under this language, in the real world, is not going to happen." Davis, W.: "Okay. Well, obviously, that's how you feel about it. Again, that's why I asked if there's a list, if she can pick and choose who she wants from the list."

"Well, but… Yeah. But minority…" Davis, W.: "There'll be qualified candidates…"

"…minority goals… minority goals in state hiring are not undercut by this legislation. So, she has every responsibility to make sure that she is giving adequate attention to members of minority groups, to other underrepresented entities in State Government hiring." Davis, W.: "Then I guess, Representative, after these positions are hired, I would love for us to take a look and look at the ethnicity of the individuals that are hired…"

"Yeah. And…" Davis, W.: "…and hopefully… hopefully, I am indeed wrong. I hope so."

"And… and…" Davis, W.: "Thank you very much." 09700086.doc 74  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"And if I could just make this comment. I think it'd be great if the Members of this chamber, in your news letters and in your press releases, made it clear what kind of people we need in our Department of Healthcare and Family Services so she actually has opportunities to hire people more than one at a time who meet these qualifications."

"Representative Mulligan."

"Mr. Zalewski."

"Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Sponsor yields."

"Yeah, Leader, just, you… there had been a mention earlier of Veteran's Preference. What concerns me about the view that this doesn't… this won't in any way violate Veteran's Preference is we're placing this exemption in a portion of the statute that exempts other forms of employees from… from Veteran's Preference. For instance, 43 is a policy-making position, 45 are licensed attorneys. So, I just wanted to flesh out a little bit why, specifically, there's a belief that this won't violate Veteran's Preference… why we're not over… over… overlooking veteran's for these positions."

"Yeah. Because we put that language back in, in this Section in order to make sure that Veteran's Preference would not be undercut. If you look at…" 09700086.doc 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Is… is that in a sep… I'm sorry, Leader."

"Yeah."

"Is that in a separate Amendment?"

"We're looking to see where that is, but it's certainly no intention of this…"

"And I apologize. The analyses don't have the Amendment language as the Bill text, so I apologize for…"

"So, on page 4 of the Amendment, it talks about when filling positions so designated, the director of Healthcare and Family Services shall cause a position da da da da… after scoring qualified applications, the director shall add Veteran's Preference point as enumerated in Section 8b.7 of this Code."

"So, in your… in your view that requiring her to add the points will effectively…"

"Yeah."

"…ensures she goes to the veterans' list."

"But first, you have to meet the qualifications, then you apply the Veteran's Preference."

"Okay. Thank you, Leader."

"Leader Currie to close."

"I appreciate your 'yes' votes."

"The Lady has moved for the passage of the Bill. This Bill requires 71 votes. Those in favor of the Bill shall vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Phelps. Mr. Verschoore. Please take the record. On this question, there are 89 voting 'yes', 24 voting 'no'. And this Bill, having received the 09700086.doc 77  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk."

"On page 6 of the Calendar appears Senate Bill 2502, Mr. Harris, Greg Harris. Please read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Please read the Bill for a third time."

"Representative Harris." Harris, G.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. This is another step in our effort statewide to improve mammography and screening for women who go in for testing for breast cancer. What this Bill does is it restricts bonus payments to digital mammography providers to those who only meet certain quality standards so that we're sure that women who we're paying for their mammography through the Medicaid program are receiving qualified, competent and thorough screenings. This will actually save the state some money. And I would be happy to answer any questions."

"The Gentleman moves for the passage of the Bill. The Chair recognizes Mr. Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?" 09700086.doc 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Mr. Harris will yield."

"Representative, how will this save the state money?" Harris, G.: "Right now, under existing statute, all those who provide digital mammography are eligible for reimbursement at the Medicare rate, as opposed to the Medicaid rate. This would require those who receive the enhanced match to meet certain quality standards, both for the technology of the machinery and the reading of the test."

"Well, our analysis indicates that the Medicare rate… that this would be a bonus of 15 percent above the Medicare rate for digital mammog… mammograms if the provider participates in the quality improvement program, correct? There'd be a bonus payment of 15 percent above the Medicare rate?" Harris, G.: "No."

"So, is… you're telling us our analysis is wrong." Harris, G.: "If the… if you look at the language of the Bill, that 15 percent bonus is stricken. What you're talking about is the current law."

"I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you." Harris, G.: "What you're talking about is in the current law. We're striking that and making it the Medicare rate instead of the Medicaid rate."

"Okay. 'Cause right now, it says HFS reimburses at 30 to 80 percent of the Medicare rate, correct?" Harris, G.: "Right now, we're saying that there is an enhanced match to all providers authorized under law. What this will do is take away the 15 percent bonus. It will make the enhanced match equal to the Medi… Medicare rate as 09700086.doc 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 opposed to the lower Medicaid rate, but only, only for those providers who meet certain quality standards. So, you would have to prove a certain level of technical competency to re… receive the enhanced rate."

"Well, is there a problem with the mammograms that are taken with the… that aren't digital, for instance." Harris, G.: "There is different kinds of mammography that are indicated for different types of women. Digital mammography is a better resolve for younger women and those with denser breast tissue."

"Has there been a Fiscal Note filed on this? I'm just trying to… I understand what you're trying to do. I'm just…" Harris, G.: "It will save about $2.6 million, potentially."

"Okay. So, there… potentially, or has there been a note that indicates that's what you're probably saving?" Harris, G.: "Those are department calculations. There's no note that's been filed to my knowledge."

"Okay. That's… I was just trying to figure out because… I… and I apologize. I was just confused when I was reading this because of this bonus that we're allegedly able to pay now, but never have. Because you're redoing the Bill…" Harris, G.: "We're making it more restrictive."

"Making it more restrictive." Harris, G.: "To be sure that it only goes to those people who meet the highest quality standards."

"Thank you."

"Mr. Harris to close." 09700086.doc 80  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 Harris, G.: "I would appreciate an 'aye' vote."

"Mr. Harris moves for the passage of Senate Bill 2502. This Bill requires 71 votes. Those in favor shall vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Will Davis. Please take the record. On this question, 113 voting 'yes', 0 voting 'no'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, committee announcement."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Soto."

"Thank you, Speaker. Point of personal privilege."

"State your point, please."

"Can I have everyone's attention here in the General Assembly, please? Can I have your attention? I'd like to make this announcement. John Keigher, our staffer, I think a lot of us know him, today is his last day, along with Dave Ellis. Can you join me in giving them a round of applause for all their hard work? It's been such a pleasure to work with both of you. I know John's not down here, but John, I hope you can hear me. Thank you for all your hard work, and good luck in the future."

"Mr. Bost." 09700086.doc 81  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Can you give us some hint as to how long you expect it to be?"

"The House will stand at ease 'til the hour of 2:30. The House will be in order. Representative Bradley on a Motion. Mr. Bradley."

"Move to suspend the posting requirements and have an immediate Revenue hearing."

Speaker Lang: "Representative Bradley moves to suspend the applicable rules so that a Motion to Concur on Senate Amendments 7 and 8 to House Bill 1883 may be considered in the Revenue Committee immediately. Is there leave? Seeing no objection, leave is granted and the applicable rules are suspended. Mr. Clerk."

"The House will be at ease. The House will be in order. Mr. Clerk."

"On the Order of Concurrence, House Bill 1883. Representative Bradley." 09700086.doc 82  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is the Bill that just came out of the Senate that would address the tax relief proposal. It uses the framework that the House developed in a bipartisan manner between Representative Harris, myself, the Revenue & Finance Committee. The differences between the House version of this Bill and the Senate version that came to us is that in Amendments 7 and 8 the Senate version increases the EITC to 10 percent which is a $55 million increase over the House levels in year two of the plan which would be fiscal year '14. There would be an increase in the Live Theater Tax Credit of $1 million to $2 million and the personal exemption which we had proposed to increase $20 million in the first year of the proposal would be indexed in perpetuity. So, those are the differences between the House Bill and the Senate Bill. What this Bill does is it changes the apportionment formula for exchanges within the State of Illinois to create a fair system for the exchanges in Illinois which have been taxed at a higher effective rate than other areas of the country and other businesses, more traditional manufacturing businesses within Illinois. It provides an extension of an economic development authority in the Hoffman Estates area. It creates an EGDE credit similar to what we've done for other companies in the state of Illinois of $15 million per year over a period of 10 years. In addition, it includes significant relief for working men and women both in the form of personal exemption increases being indexed as well as an increase in the Earned Income Tax Credit from 5 to 10 percent over the course of 2 years. In addition, there's 09700086.doc 83  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 significant small business incentives and relief in this Bill. We took roughly $50 million and we dedicated that money to the net operating loss up to $100 thousand. So, this will disproportionately help small businesses in the State of Illinois and will be a great relief to as many as 36 thousand businesses in the state. We also would increase the estate tax exemption not to the $5 million level that the Federal Government uses or was originally requested but to a more manageable and fiscal level of three and half million over 2 years. So, this Bill would also create the acknowledgement and the future creation of a tax tribunal to try to provide relief to Illinois businesses in a more fair process of dealing with tax disputes in the State of Illinois and would extend the sunsets on tax credits that were coming due, where their sunsets were going to would expire over a 3-year period of '11, '12 and '13. So, I would ask for your support and an 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman moves that the House concur in Senate Amendments 7 and 8 to House Bill 1883. And on that question, the Chair recognizes Mr. Eddy."

"Mr. Bradley yields."

"Yes."

"Correct."

"They indexed the personal exemption. So, in the proposal, in order to keep costs down in the House version, we had capped the proposal at 20 million and then held it. In the Senate version, they would go up 20 million on the personal exemption for the middle class and then they would index that over time."

"So there'd be additional costs each year of the program."

"And then the third thing was they had increased the Live Theater Tax Credit to $2 million…"

"…from 1 million."

"Well, it depends on what happens with this, obviously. If this Bill passes out of the chamber, then this is it because it's already passed the Senate in a bipartisan manner. I believe, there were 7 Senate Republicans that 09700086.doc 85  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 voted for the Bill and it passed out with a strong 36 votes. So, this is a bipartisan Bill coming to us and I think that we owe the Senate the respect to look at this and to have a vote on this."

"And before we move on, I want to introduce a former Member of the House, former Deputy Majority Leader, former Secretary of Transportation, Gary Hannig. Representative Will Davis." Davis, W.: "Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentleman yields." Davis, W.: "Representative Bradley, when this first Bill came… when this… the idea of this Bill first came out, correct me if I'm wrong, but the EITC was 15 percent?"

"Well, the Governor's original proposal was that he would like to go to 15 percent and the cost of that, I've seen different estimates, and the cost of that were anywhere from 200 and…" Davis, W.: "Two hundred and eighty million dollars."

"…225 to 289 million dollars." Davis, W.: "I… I agree. So, when we talk about the different breaks that are now being given to CME and others, how much do those things cost?"

"Right. So, when we were going through this, I tried to break this into three components. And so, we wanted to 09700086.doc 86  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 provide… we wanted to retain the Illinois jobs. We were in a difficult position in that regard with the… two or three large companies. That’s about $100 million. We wanted to provide some significant relief to the small businesses, not just the big companies, but the mom and pop shops, the hardware stores, the local restaurants, et cetera. So, the estate tax and the net operating loss are targeted for small businesses. That’s why we kept the caps down on that in terms of 100 thousand, three and half million. That’s about $80 million. So, we also wanted to help working folks, people that you and I represent and so we put money both into the EITC and to the personal exemption and that’s about 75 million. So, it's not quite proportions of a third, but we were trying to kind of keep it in line within a…" Davis, W.: "What's up with that? But that’s not everything. There's… are the R&D tax credits in here too?"

"Well, the R&D tax credit is already in the budget. So, there's no new money being used for that; we never backed that out of the budget. So, there's no new money for that. So, what we were trying to do is take a business tax, which is the bonus depreciation, which comes back on the books next year and use that money as it comes back on the books to create this program. Now, one important piece of this that I left out, and it's my fault, is that there's no fiscal year '12 impact, which means that all the surplus from this year will go to pay the back bills and that’s part of this legislation. Then in future years by keeping the $250 million number and keeping the cost down or least 09700086.doc 87  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 keeping near that and this Bill I think it's 300 million. Keeping our cost down, that's going to free up more money in FY13, FY14 to continue to pay our service providers that the state's behind on. So, the more money we put in the EITC or personal exemption we're actually taking it out of General Revenue Fund, potentially, at some point in the future and taking it away from other providers." Davis, W.: "I'm clear that it costs money. I'm going back to the original proposal cause here's my analysis of what's happened, is that from the original proposal everybody has gotten everything that they wanted…

"No." Davis, W.: "…except the EITC."

"No, that’s not correct. So the net operating loss wanted $275 million, they got reduced to 50. The estate tax wanted $90 million, they got reduced to 30." Davis, W.: "Okay."

"The personal exemption was going to be indexed. That’s still the same as the original proposal and the EITC in this proposal is 10 percent, which is $110 million, down from 200. So, actually, proportionally, this is proportionally…" Davis, W.: "But you're… but you're missing the CME portion of it."

"The CME portion is…" Davis, W: "You're missing District 300."

"No, the… the" Davis, W: "Aren’t those parts of this proposal?" 09700086.doc 88  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Yes. So, District 300… the issues with District 300 were resolved in committee yesterday." Davis, W: "Of course."

"The CME actually gave in because they're paying the full amount of the tax increase this year." Davis, W: "But they're still getting what they want which is…"

"No, not completely." Davis, W: "Well, they're not getting it this year…"

"Not completely." Davis, W.: "…but over a period of time they are still getting what they want."

"Representative, not completely. They wanted it immediately. They're paying the full amount of the tax this year. They're paying…" Davis, W.: "We're talking about dollars, Representative."

"…they're paying the half of it… they're paying…" Davis, W.: "I'm not suggesting that they're getting…"

"I thought you said…" Davis, W.: "You just said there's no FY12 impact. I'm clear, but if they're still getting, at some point in the next 2 or 3 fiscal years, what they want, all I'm suggesting is that then why can't low-income individuals still get something out of this. Everything we do here costs money, one way or another."

"They… can I just… can I just clarify something I did?" Davis, W.: "All I'm suggesting."

"And I understand. I'm listening to what you're saying. Can I just clarify that? So, first of all, they wanted the 09700086.doc 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 tax reallocation method immediately. They didn’t get it. They wanted the full amount next year. They're not getting that either. They wanted to be reduced below 27.54 percent. They wanted to use popula… population data, population data, which would have driven them down further. They didn’t get that. The original proposals that were out there was they wanted population data, not census data, which would have given them an additional reduction in taxes. So, not everybody is getting what they want in this. Compared to the original proposal, the EITC has fared better than the other portions of the Bill, particularly NOL, the state tax, proportionally by the reductions that we've made to bring down the cost of the program." Davis, W: "All right. So, obviously, you're trying to give me all the reason why I should vote for this…"

"Well…" Davis, W.: "…despite the impact on low-income individuals. And I'm just reflecting on the original proposal saying that, at one point, we thought 15 percent was a good number. Now we don’t think that helping low-income individuals is as good as it was originally, so that was brought back to… ultimately, to 10 percent over the course of a couple of years, correct?"

"Representative, it is less than what was originally proposed by the Governor. I recognize and you and I have worked together for a long time and you have always been a champion of the EITC and to my knowledge this will be one of the biggest bumps, if not the biggest bumps to the EITC 09700086.doc 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 to working men and women since you and I have been in this chamber." Davis, W.: "Well… "

"And I would hate to let it get away because it's not everything that everybody wanted." Davis, W: "Well, we all talk about things that we want and I understand that and I wholeheartedly expect this Bill to pass, you know, but to me it's unfortunate that in this case low-income individuals have to suffer as a result. Not that I don’t care about CME and other groups like that, but you know, I don’t think very people from my district are working there, you know, or places like that. I mean, all I'm simply saying is that my job here, in this case, is to look at the impact on low-income individuals. Again, CME, District 300, okay, those are fine, you know and I don’t want to speak against those necessarily, but I just wanted to understand how low-income individuals are impacted by this and what I see, despite what you've said, is the fact that originally we thought that 15 percent EITC was a good thing now we're back to 10, and I understand what you're saying, this will be a bump that they haven’t had in a while, maybe the largest… maybe the only bump that they get in the next 10, 15, 20 years, I understand but often individuals here hold out for certain things and to me this is something that we should hold out on. So, again, obviously people will vote their conscience. I'm going to vote "no" on this Bill and leave it at that. Thank you very much, Representative Bradley."

"Mr. Franks." 09700086.doc 91  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Sponsor will yield."

"Representative Bradley, first of all I want to thank you for your hard work on this. I know you took a lot of your holiday working on this and you've been extraordinarily diligent and I know you've tried very hard, so I want to start with that and acknowledge your effort.

"And first of all, let me just say, whenever you… whenever you begin a statement like that…"

"I wanted you to know that."

"…you're getting ready to drop the hammer. So, just… so just get to it, Representative."

"That’s right. I was wondering, John, do you like every aspect of this Bill?"

"I tried to put together a Bill that was as fair as we could put together under the resources that we had. The Senate disagreed with us on a couple of provisions and increased the numbers beyond what I would have originally done but this is democracy and so this Bill passed out with a strong vote, a bipartisan vote out of the Senate. My friend and colleague Senator Hutchinson feels very strongly about this, did a good job. So, I am not emotionally involved with this piece of legislation."

"Well, I don’t… why… I don’t mind…"

"I'm trying to get a job done here to keep two or three large businesses in Illinois, provide relief for working men and women and to provide significant relief for small businesses. I think this Bill accomplishes that. I 09700086.doc 92  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 think it also allows us to pay bills and I think it's a… it's a step in the right direction."

"Well, actually, that was more of a yes or no question. But my point is, what I was trying to say is why don’t… if we're happy with the Bill after the way the Bill is drafted, why don’t we break it up into different parts and run each one individually and let them stand on their own. I didn't bring those people."

"So, Representative"

"Excuse me, Mr. Bradley. Could we get some order in the chamber please and order from the gallery or I'll clear it. Please proceed."

"Representative, if you don’t like the way we put this together, you can spend your next holiday working on it."

"Well, that’s… I'm not trying… here's my point. I think some of these provisions on their own wouldn’t stand, so that’s why they're being Christmas treed together. And I think that’s a problem that we have in Springfield because I believe that each portion of a Bill ought to be able to stand on its own. Let me ask you a question. How much corporate income tax did Sears pay last year?"

"You're asking me how much corporate income tax Sears paid last year?"

"Yes, 'cause we're looking to give them $15 million over… each year for 10 years."

"There are… there are representatives of Sears in the building. I don’t know if that's proprietary information or not. I know what I've seen reported. You know the 09700086.doc 93  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 answer to that 'cause you’re a lawyer and you don’t ask questions you don’t know the answer to."

"Well, the answer is they haven’t paid any corporate income tax and we're asking to give them $15 million a year. Do you know how much the CME paid last year in income tax?"

"What was the question?"

"My question was, how much did the CME pay in income tax last year?"

"I think the CME number is 158 million for this calendar year."

"They paid a lot of income tax. Under this Bill, should it pass, how much would they pay this year in income tax?"

"One hundred fifty-eight million."

"So, there would be no net loss to the state for CME?"

"Correct."

"Because some of the numbers I had seen would be they'd actually pay less than before the income tax that we increased."

"Well, no, that’s when the pro… that’s when the apportionment method changes."

"Okay. Let's assume that…"

"So, when it goes to the 27.54 percent apportionment factor, then they would pay less than prior to the income tax."

"Correct. Correct. So, they would actually pay less in income tax than they paid before the tax increase for all the other… for all the other corporations in the state. Has there been any empirical analysis done by anyone 09700086.doc 94  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 independent to determine whether the incentive packages that we are offering are actually a net benefit to the state?"

"Well, the EDGE credit regarding Sears is the same tool that's been used by this state and many others for many years. So, I assume that there are empir… there is empirical data at DCEO with regards to that and all the states or many of the states continue to use that."

"I know that…"

"I don’t think anybody's dealt with an apportionment factor like we are in this particular case."

"I agree and I'm concerned. I really don't have as much faith in DCEO as you do."

"And I don’t think… I don’t think we need a study to determine the effects of increasing the EITC on working folks or to determine the gaining of the net operating loss to 100 thousand for small businesses. I think that would be a waste of money to conduct a study on that. We know it's going to be helpful."

"Well, I would disagree because I don’t think that we have a fair playing field in the State of Illinois because what we do is the companies that are really big… First of all, what we do is we raise taxes on everybody, but the ones who are really big who can afford really good lobbyists are the ones who can come and say, you know what, I'm thinking of leaving unless you give me some dough. So then what we do is we give them the money, then they give us their campaign contributions, of course, but then everybody else doesn't get anything. So it’s the small and 09700086.doc 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 medium size businesses that get to pay for the corporate welfare for the larger ones. So I do think that we ought to have some empirical analysis to determine whether it actually is a good deal because… let me… let me use Sears as an example. This is a company that got in… that got a huge tax break under the Thompson administration, correct? And now, they're saying we're not going to stay in your state unless… when they got the tax break last time, remember, they just moved from Chicago to Hoffman Estates; they stayed in the state. But now they're saying, if you don’t give us again, we're going to leave, so apparently, we have to subsidize them perpetually to keep them. But this is where it gets interesting. If you look at how this is written, right now, the amount of employees in Hoffman Estates is approximately 6100, correct? About 6100 employees at Hoffman Estates."

"I think that’s right."

"Okay. But under this legislation, what we're saying is you owe… what we're saying is, we will give you $150 million… This is very important, Ladies and Gentlemen. We will pay you $150 million as long as you don’t fire more than 1850 employees. So, basically, we're going to be paying them $150 million to fire 1,850 employees because in order to retain this incentive they must only keep 4,250 people."

"Well, the… and I… and you weren’t a party to the negotiations and I wasn’t a direct party to the negotiations but my understanding was that there's about 1800 employees out there that are not technically 09700086.doc 96  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 classified as employees. They work for other people. And so if we were to put the 6100 employee requirement on them, there's only about 4200 employees out there that they actually have control over. And so that would create a situation where this would not be a tenable… a tenable program."

"Well, here's my problem."

"And you wouldn’t have that information, so I don’t blame you for not knowing that."

"Okay. Well, DCEO has recently cut deals with Navistar, for instance and Motorola Mobility."

"I'm not here to… I'm not here to defend DCEO or CME or Sears."

"Okay."

"We put together the best package we could under the circumstances with the money we had to try to retain jobs, help working men and women and provide relief to small business. So, you could take, I mean… I'm just, I'm not defending these companies and I'm not defending DCEO and other organizations out of my control."

"Okay. That’s fair. That’s fair, but they're the ones who are going to be administrating it and I just… I just don’t have a lot of faith in their ability to do it. I always thought that incentives should have been used for start-ups and for companies that are growing. I don’t know how we've come to allow incentives for companies that are actually contracting. That’s not what incentives are supposed to be. I filed Amendment #4 to your original Bill that would remove Sears from this legislation and I'm not 09700086.doc 97  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 sure whether you're going to be calling that Bill and that’s why I wanted to know… I guess if this one passes you would."

"I think it's still in Rules, isn't it?"

"My Amendment, but I'm wondering are you going to be calling your Bill?"

"I don’t know. I mean, if we … if we get a vote on this tonight, we may not have to."

"Okay. Okay. I'd like to speak to the Bill for a minute or two, if I may and I appreciate my friend, John. You know, we had a Bill up here a few weeks ago that failed, and this is probably a lot and my fault that I didn’t work it well enough, but it was a Bill that would have provided property tax relief for homeowners. We have 46 percent of our homeowners in the Chicago region, the Chicago area, that have mortgages that are underwater, that owe more on their mortgages than their home is worth, yet we couldn’t muster the ability to give homeowners who are underwater a tax break. Yet today, we are debating whether we should give multibillion corporations huge tax incentives and in one instance, where they would be able to fire 30 percent of their workforce. And I believe that the concessions for Sears are tragically misguided. The state is not only incentivizing, it's rewarding companies that terminate workers. I can't believe that we would use our tax dollars, money that hardworking Illinoisans paid in, to be used against themselves to be fired. Now you look what happened at Motorola and Navistar and then to allow this with Sears. This just can't happen. These incentive 09700086.doc 98  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 packages are devoid of transparency and they lack a proper oversight authority. We don’t know whether this is a good deal for the State of Illinois, but we do know that it's politically good for one company. And I don’t think that we ought to be giving sweetheart deals for one company based on the political muscle that they have under the dome and doling out tax breaks business by business when they threaten to leave demonstrates the weakness of Illinois's business climate. This practice is politically corrupting and it's shortsighted. It's just… it's not a good economic development strategy. I and many of my… of our colleagues here voted against the recent tax hike but we need to make clear that Illinois will not be held hostage by corporations threatening to exit because these… these actions come at the expense of small- and medium-size businesses that are not getting similar bailouts. If we're serious about keeping businesses in Illinois, what we ought to do tomorrow is repeal the tax hike. That’s what we ought to do. We should not be doing incentives one by one. Until then, these incentives must not allow companies to dramatically decrease their Illinois workforce. I'd encourage a 'no' vote on this Bill. Let's go back to the drawing board on this, Ladies and Gentlemen."

"Mr. Crespo."

"Thank you, Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentleman yields."

"Representative Bradley, first, I want to thank you for all the work you've put into this and Representative Harris as well. A quick question for you. Under this version, 09700086.doc 99  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 can you tell me how much is this going to cost through 2014?"

"Well, 2012 there's no fiscal cost; 2013 it's about 2… Well, it’s the Senate's version."

"Then tell the Senate's version, Representative."

"About 250 million in '13 and then it's going to go up about 75 million in '14."

"Let me get to the point. I'm trying to compare the House version with the Senate version. What's the difference in cost to the state?"

"In fiscal years… in year two and… in year two of the program, it's a $75 million difference. In year three, you increase that by 20 million. So, the personal exemption goes up roughly 20 million a year."

"Okay. So, it definitely will cost more than your version, correct?"

"That’s correct."

"Thank you. And listen, I, obviously, as many of you know, I've been working on the Sears deal for quite some time, since the beginning of the year, but I've always said it has to be a win-win. We need to be able to afford what we're going to put out there. I don’t think this Bill does that. I'm very concerned. As appropriations chair for General Services, we have so many pressure points and I don’t think we can afford this version, Representative. So, I might vote 'no'. I'm hoping that you do run your version. And we have a speaker before me who talked about Sears. Listen, folks, they do provide 6100 jobs. The original EDA only require they provide 2 thousand. So, 09700086.doc 100  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 they're providing more than what they're required, but more importantly… most importantly, it's not just the direct jobs but there's close to over 9 thousand vendors and contractors and business employing thousands of more folks that provide services to Sears. There are more than 100 people that visit the campus every year that help the local businesses. There's 30 thousand nights per year at nearby hotels and 18 thousand annual airline tickets in and out of O'Hare for Sears associates. We can't blame Sears for the dynamic or what's going on here in the state. They received an offer from another state. Things are what they are and we need to react to that. So, Representative, I'm not sure if I can Sponsor this Bill because of the cost. I hope you get a chance to call your version, which I think was very well put together between you and Representative Harris. And once again, thank you for your support."

"Representative Flowers."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"Gentleman yields."

"Representative, first of all, I would like to compliment you and Representative Harris and Members of your committee for all the hard work and the long hours that you put in to craft this legislation, but I have a few concerns and questions. Do all businesses in the State of Illinois pay taxes?"

"I… I would guess that the answer to that would be yes in some form. I don’t know that everybody pays income tax." 09700086.doc 101  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"CME, when they came before your committee, stated that they just wanted to be treated fairly. They stated that they were being overtaxed and some companies wasn’t paying taxes at all. So, under this Bill, will CME be treated fairly? Will all other businesses be paying taxes?"

"Well, they will be treated more fairly than they are currently."

"They'll be treated more fairly, but there will still be some business out there that's not paying taxes. Okay. That’s number one. My other concern, there was a recent article in the newspaper in regards to the CME group had bailed out MF Global by pledging $300 million to their trustees. May I ask you, what will the people of the State of Illinois get in regards to the bailout that we're about to give Sears, the bailout that we're about to give CME? What will we get in return other than… other than a few jobs? And let me just say this, Representative, with all due respect, because I understand about give and take and I understand that we need businesses to stay in Illinois in order to create more businesses so the people in the State of Illinois can have jobs, but the fact of the matter is, I think this is a disservice when you think that we, the taxpayers once again that have had our taxes raised on us, that has had our income drop, some of us have worked and are working without pay. Is it fair that we made sure that the trustees of these companies be made whole while we, the taxpayers, leave with absolutely nothing? After all, this is a free market and the company should be able to fail or succeed on their own. So, what should I go back and tell 09700086.doc 102  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 my constituents in regards to the $3 million that CME, which we are going to try to bail out today, going to give another company $300 million and they might get $2.50 in regards to a tax credit. And as some of my other colleagues spoke earlier in regards to their homes being lost and in regards to their jobs being gone and to me this is another way of outsourcing because if… if after CME and Sears leave and other companies come behind them threatening us if we don’t give them what they want, they, too, will leave. You know, what is the point in all of this? So, I respect what it is that you've done. I respect what it is that you're trying to do, but I think we still have a long ways to go. And I'm not diminishing the jobs that CME and Sears bring to the State of Illinois, but I think we can come up with a better program and return on the dollars for the people of the State of Illinois. Thank you very much."

"Mr. Bradley to close."

"This is an immensely difficult issue. This is an immensely difficult vote. This is an immensely difficult situation to be in, but this is the situation we be in. And I would like to say that there was some other reality, but this is the reality of the world economy, of the way that things are going and we have to make the best decision we can in very difficult times under very difficult conditions. I think that the framework of this Bill, regardless of the differences in the amounts of money between the Senate and House version, is a good attempt… is a reasonable attempt to try to address many different issues, not the least of which is working men and women, 09700086.doc 103  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 which is small businesses, which is paying down the state's debt and retaining thousands of Illinois jobs from longstanding Illinois companies. I would ask for an 'aye' vote."

Speaker Lang: "The Gentleman's… Gentleman's moved that the House concur with Senate Amendment 7 and 8 to House Bill 1883. Those in favor of the Gentleman's Motion vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. McGuire. Mr. Clerk, please take the record. On this question, there are 8 voting 'yes', 99 voting 'no' and 6 voting 'present'. And the Gentleman's Motion fails. Mr. Clerk, Agreed Resolutions."

"Leader Currie moved the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. Those in favor say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. And the Agreed Resolutions are adopted. On page 9 of the Calendar, on the Order of Resolutions, appears House Resolution 590. Representative Pihos. Take your time, Representative." 09700086.doc 104  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Lady moves for the adoption of the Resolution. There being no debate, those in favor say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. In the opinion the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. And the Resolution is adopted. House Resolution 610, Representative Ford."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I move for the adoption of House Resolution 610. First, I would like to thank Representative Kelly Cassidy for… and Representative… Leader Barbara Flynn Currie for supporting House Resolution 610. House Resolution 610 urges support for peaceful exercise of the First Amendment by the Occupy protestors. And I move for the adoption."

"Mr. Eddy."

"Recognized."

"Gentleman yields." 09700086.doc 105  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"The purpose of the Resolution is to simply allow people to exercise the First Amendment."

"That's why I think, Representative, I think that as leaders of this state, I think it's our responsibility to say that we urge peaceful Occupy protests. And that's what this Resolution does."

"Well, we know that Occupy protests are happening all over the State of Illinois, correct?" 09700086.doc 106  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"So, would you urge people to protest lawfully?"

"Well, that's what this is saying. We urge you to protest lawfully, and not in an illegal way."

"You know, I don't think that we, as Legislators, have a right to tell people what they should occupy for. They have a right as citizens of this state to occupy, even if you don't agree with it."

"Well, I think that…"

"…you know, I think that people…"

"All right."

"So… so, are you telling me the teachers, the senior citizens, the veterans, and the firemen, and the working everyday citizens that’s occupying and protesting are… they have no right to do that? They have no right to stand up for what they believe in?"

"Right."

"Representative Mulligan."

"Mr. Sullivan."

"Gentleman yields."

"I mean, that's why as a leader of this state, I would urge you to support this Resolution that says that we want you to protest lawfully according to the Constitution."

"If you believe in the Constitution…"

"Well, they are lawful protestors. And we urge that…"

"Yes."

"Why do we have corrupt politicians? Why do we have corrupt politicians?" 09700086.doc 109  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"All right. So, in every field of and walks of life you're going to always have bad apples. So, I'm telling you, let's support the Constitution, let's support those that we go knock on their doors and ask them, tell me what is it that you're feelin', what should we be working on? Come to my town hall meeting so that you can tell me what issues we should be dealing with. Right now the unemployment rate in Illinois is over 10 percent. So, I'm telling you now, these are issues that…"

"…the people, right now, are talking about."

"Well, you know, if you could pick this and angle it however you want, but I'm telling you there are good people protesting, and I support those good people that are protesting, and you should too."

"Representative Monique Davis." 09700086.doc 110  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 Davis, M.: "Mr… Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentleman yields." Davis, M.: "Representative Ford, do you believe in democracy in America?"

"Representative, I do." Davis, M.: "Do you believe that people have the right to peacefully protest on any issue?"

"I do." Davis, M.: "Do you believe that the people who have gone to college and gotten degrees, who have invested money in many failing stocks or what have you, through no fault of their own, do you think they deserve some kind of redress from this country?"

"Yes, Representative." Davis, M.: "Do you believe that teachers should be protected, and not constantly attacked and blamed for all the ills of society?"

"I do. I feel like I'm marrying you." Davis, M.: "Therefore, Representative Ford, I commend you for this fabulous and very strong piece of legislation. This Resolution shows that many of us, no matter how much it hurts us, we realize that people have a right to protest. These people are out in the cold, some of them are hungry, they're not extremely warm in this kind of weather, and yet they're showing their belief in this country that they have a right to protest. And those of us who believe in democracy will continue to support them, take them some food, drop some dollars by that protest, and let them know that that's what America is all about, the right to 09700086.doc 111  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 peacefully protest, and keep this country as a democratic or democracy. Thank you."

"Mr. Reboletti."

"Gentleman yields."

"I don't. I know that there are a lot of Occupiers that I've met with that are teachers, police officers, veterans, and they believe that their voices should be heard."

"Representative, this Resolution calls for peaceful occupy." 09700086.doc 112  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"You… you could do a Resolution for that, Reboletti."

"I don't either."

"Well, I have a Resolution here that speaks to the problems that we have in the state, 10 percent unemployment, that's over 660 thousand people that's unemployed in this state. The poverty rate is more than 14 percent…"

"…1.8 million people living in poverty in this state, right now" 09700086.doc 113  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Eleven thou…"

"Well, you know, we don't know why it is, but I know we need to get to the matter of it. And the people have a voice in this state, and if you want to shut their voices down, then vote 'no'."

"Well… well, then why don't we stand together today?"

"Why don't we stand together today, Representative Reboletti, and say that we support peaceful occupying throughout this state because people have a right to exercise the First Amendment. Can you agree that we should stand together and give people the right to peacefully occupy in this state?"

"It does say that."

"It doesn’t say that I condone…"

"So, if we make this Resolution say peaceful, will you vote for it?"

"It's in there." 09700086.doc 114  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"No, it calls upon the…"

"You know, I didn’t want to bring up the… you know, Representative Reboletti, I didn't want to keep on bringing up the issue of why people are protesting throughout the state. The average after-tax household income of the top one percent of the United States population grew by 275 percent between 1979 and 2007 and the average after-tax household income of the lowest 20 percent of the United States population grew just by 18 percent in the same period. You know, people have a right to protest, they want to protest and I support people protesting, lawfully, in this state. This country has been put together through the Civil Rights movement because people protest and we are a better state, better country because of it. Women's lib… well, I should say the, not women's lib, but the women had their marches and now we're a better state because of the women having their marches. And so…"

"…this country is better because of protests and demonstrations."

"It is. It gives people the rights."

"Mr. Ford to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. This Resolution did not come to bring division, it was just meant to give the people a voice in this state that cannot afford to have lobbyists come down to lobby for them like the last Bill that we just heard. So, as leaders in Illinois, I urge you to support the First Amendment and to urge peaceful protests in the State of Illinois. Thank you."

"The Gentleman's moved for the adoption of the Resolution. The adoption of the Resolution requires more 'yes' votes than 'no' votes. It does not require 60 votes. And a Roll Call has been requested. Those in favor of the Resolution shall vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. DeLuca, Mr. Franks, Representative Sente. Please take the record. On this question, there are 37 voting 'yes', 58 voting 'no', 15 voting 'present'. And the Gentleman's Motion fails. Mr. Moffitt."

"Please state your point, Sir."

"The House will come to order. On page 4 of the Calendar, under the Order of Senate Bills-Second Reading, appears Senate Bill 1311. Representative Currie. Please read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Leader Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker. These are pretty technical changes in the budget implementation plan. One would give the Charter School Commission some additional spending authority, that is, they could spend money on certain items that are not in their legislation today. And as well, the State's Attorney Appellate Prosecutor had asked that they also have the opportunity to conduct some training programs with some of the money that they have. So, it's a kind of further detail on how the Appellate Prosecutor's office can spend its money."

"Lady moves for the adoption of the Amendment. There being no debate, those in favor say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Please read the Bill." 09700086.doc 118  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Leader Currie."

"Thank you much… very much, Speaker and Members of the House. Many of the items in this Bill are the substantive language that goes with statutory transfers that we actually made in the budget that we adopted last spring. In fact, most of this Bill is about… gives us the statutory authority to do what we did in the budget Bill, and as I say, much of it is statutory transfers; for example, the Violence Prevention Fund, we always do that, and this just gives us the statutory authority to do so. We create, also, in this Bill a Healthcare Provider Relief Fund, which can be used to bring in federal Medicaid match. So, we put the money in a Healthcare Provider Relief Fund, rather in general revenue, and we also reverse some of the fund sweeps that were not needed and not appropriate. We provide that the audit of the Regional Transportation Authority, by the office of the Executive Inspector General, shall be paid out of public transportation funds rather than General Revenue Funds. There is a $10 million decrease in the amount of money that we have to transfer to the Workers' Compensation Fund. They need 45 million rather than 55 million. I, also… I'd be happy to answer any questions that you have. As I say, primarily what this does is to give us the statutory authority to spend the dollars as we appropriated them when we adopted our budget in May."

"Mr. Eddy." 09700086.doc 119  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Lady yields."

"Yes, indeed."

"So… but this also deals with the budget we already adopted. But further changes, which will come up in another Bill, are also reflected in the statutory changes here."

"That's right, the revenue… not the appropriation but the statutory language will go from 175 million to 169 million."

"Right."

"Right."

"Yes." 09700086.doc 120  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Say that again?"

"Yeah. But on the other hand, Representative, there may be a piece of the reallocation Bill that you don't like. This is a many-faceted proposal, and it's hard to me to imagine that you would object to all that is in this Bill, even if you find yourself uncomfortable with one provision. So, I'd encourage a 'yes' vote."

"Let me just make this point and that is that we can appropriate but that doesn't mean the Governor has to spend." 09700086.doc 121  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"That… that's an actual appropriation. That's not in this language."

"Mr. Bost."

"Thank you. The record will reflect that. Mr. Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Sponsor yields."

"Thank you. Representative, I'm not sure I understand this Bill yet. This is a Budget Implementation Bill?"

"It is."

"I'm not understanding where we're getting the money." 09700086.doc 122  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"These come from transfers from the General Revenue. And as I say, some of that money we will see in the budget Bill that is about to come. So, for example, we thought we were going to need $55 million to put in the Workers' Compensation Fund, to keep that program operative…"

"Wait…"

"…in fact, we don't need $55 million. We were able to reduce that sum by $10 million. So, this provides that we transfer from GRF not 55 million but 45 million."

"Okay, I get that. But… okay. Let's assume we don't need that 10 million. We only… on that…"

"Right."

"…we'll use the workers' comp as the… as the example. I thought that we had passed in the budget that, if we had excess money in a line item, that that would go to pay bills, outstanding bills, but this, is of my understanding, would not go to pay excess bills, it would go to pay for different services."

"And the problem, of course, in the budget that we passed in the spring is that there were some things that, for whatever reason, did not get funded, that everybody thought were going to be funded, at an adequate level. So, the other really important point is that what we said is we're going to stay within a cap, a cap that the House unanimously agreed was the available revenue. And in this measure, the measure before you right now, Senate Bill 1311, and the budget Bill, the reallocation Bill, we will stay well under that cap."

"Well, is that…" 09700086.doc 123  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"So, I think our commitment was that moneys over that cap would then go to pay old bills, but as we are still under the cap, I think that because there were various things that happened during the appropriations process; for example, we did not know exactly how much money the Governor had allocated to programs that are operated through Division of Alcohol and Substance Abuse, the cut that we made was disproportionate, hit very hard programs that had no idea it was coming. It was a timing problem. We didn't know, when we set the allocation levels, that the Governor, in fact, was going to be sending more money to that program. So we're under the cap; that, I think, is the important point about our decision to spend additional revenues paying old bills."

"But this doesn't say how we're going to spend the money. This is just transferring it so then you can have that pot…"

"Right."

"…to spend it as you wish."

"And much of it… let me just remind you, much of it is statutory transfers. So, for example, the Violence Prevention Fund traditionally gets a transfer from the General Revenue Fund, and that amount…"

"One point four million."

"…is 1.4 million. The statutory language didn't happen in the spring. So, in order to make sure they get the allocation that they are accustomed to having, we need to make this language change."

"Well, how much…" 09700086.doc 124  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"And that… that's true for the state's surveys. That's true for a variety of other items that are in this Bill."

"Well, how much of this is the statutory transfer, such as the Violence Prevention Fund and how much are these would be discretionary?"

"I'm not sure I can answer. I can tell you that the Violence Prevention Fund, Communications Revolving, Professional Service Fund, U of I Income Fund, Digital Divide, Partners of Conservation, Tourism Promotion, those are all in the category of statutory transfers, but without passage of this Bill, there will be no statute to authorize the transfer."

"Well, how much money are we talking altogether in these transfers?"

"I haven't added it up."

"'Cause I'm just wondering how we're going to get… 'cause I presume a Bill we'll be seeing soon will be how we're going to spend these moneys. So, I just was wondering how much we're talking and whether that would trigger the two percent requirement also in the budget where if it's more than two percent in the line item you need… don't you need to have stat… legislative approval?"

"I'm not sure what you mean about the 2 percent. I would just reiterate that we're under our cap, our self-imposed cap, well under."

"But… but are these hundreds of millions of dollars, here? That's what I'm trying figure out. I can't tell how much we're doing." 09700086.doc 125  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Well, we're doing 202 million for the Governor's reallocation program, 28 million but reflects the fact that we short shrifted department… the Division of Alcohol and Substance Abuse 'cause we didn't know what the Governor's allocation had been. We believe that there was some kind of transcription or other error with respect to community mental health programs, so this would provide 30 million more for that."

"Okay."

"Sudden Infant Death… These… those are the budget items, but they are not in Senate Bill 1311."

"That's what I was trying to figure out 'cause that's… are we putting the cart before the horse? I'm just wondering wouldn't we be better off knowing how we were wanting to spend these moneys? I mean, when are we going to see the Bill on the allocation of the moneys?"

"I think that's next."

"Okay. That's what I wanted to see. Okay. Thank you."

"Representative Mulligan."

"Lady yields."

"That's not in this Bill, but if… if we finish this Bill and move to the budget Bill, then, I can guarantee you, there will be $28 million, additional dollars, for services for community-based alcohol and substance abuse programs."

"But we're not there yet, Rosemary. And we need your vote on Senate Bill 1311, so we can get to the next event."

"So, what's happening here is the Executive Inspector General is doing an audit of the RTA. No. Sorry. He's acting…"

"I'm sorry. He… under legislation we adopted last year, the Executive Inspector General is the Inspector General for the Regional Transportation Authority and its Service Boards. So, it seemed appropriate, because they always have done those activities themselves, it seemed appropriate to use their money to pay for the activities of the Executive Inspector General rather than taking that money out of our scarce resources in the General Revenue Fund."

"Yes." 09700086.doc 127  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"I think it's going to be in… about 100 and… total… total 276, so about 136 million."

"No, the appropriation authority isn't here yet…"

"…but that money will be able to… because it's in a dedicated fund it can be used to access federal dollars."

"Forty-five million. What we thought initially that they were going to need 55 million as our usual transfer from GRF to that fund, but because they have closed some offices, because of efficiencies since we adopted reforms in the Workers' Comp system, in fact, they only need 45 million, leaving 10 million excess in the General Revenue Fund."

"No, this is the program under which low-income seniors can borrow money to pay their property tax bills. They borrow from the state, and when the property is sold, they pay back the money they borrowed with interest. Generally, of course, that fund is solvent, but in the last couple of years, the receipts have not come in as quickly as we would 09700086.doc 128  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 have hoped and expected, so we're putting $500 thousand into that fund to make it solvent."

"Yeah."

"This also is going to be… enable us to collect federal match and pay Medicaid bills."

"This is in order to… Pardon me?"

"Medicaid."

"Leader Currie to close."

"I appreciate your 'yes' votes."

"Those in favor of the Bill should vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Record yourselves, please, Members. Representative Mayfield, Saviano. Please take the record. On this question, there are 92 voting 'yes', 19 voting 'no', and 1 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received a Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 5 of the Calendar appears Senate Bill 2412. Mr. Clerk."

"Leader Currie."

"Thank you very much, Speaker and Members of the House. Amendment 2 is most of the bulk of the reallocation of spending from spring of 2011. I'd appreciate your support and if we could discuss the Bill on Third, I'd be particularly grateful."

"Those in favor of the Amendment say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. And the Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

"Leader Currie."

"Thank you. This is a technical change requested by the State Treasurer's Office and so it's technical in nature. I'd appreciate your support and again, I'd like to discuss the Bill on Third Reading."

"Representative Mulligan."

"Lady yields."

"Amendment 3 is a technical Amendment requested by the Treasurer's Office so as to…"

"…correct a problem with the appropriation for the Charitable Trust Fund." 09700086.doc 130  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Only if we get to Third Reading. If we don't…"

"…get to Third Reading, it's not there."

"Thank you."

"Those in favor of the Amendment say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Please read the Bill."

"Leader Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker and Members of the House. This is the reallocation that we discussed to a degree when we were talking about the budget implementation plan. It deposits that 140 million that we discussed into the Hospital Relief Fund that will churn and bring in an additional 136 million federal moneys. And the Governor's reallocation plan at 202 million, what that does essentially is see to it that those facilities for the developmentally disabled, the mentally ill, and those who are incarcerated in the state correctional facilities will not close during the current fiscal year. That will enable us to create a sensible, reasonable, responsive and effective plan for moving people from state-operated facilities into the community. It also 09700086.doc 131  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 will make sure that there are not excessive numbers of layoffs in departments like Human Services, the Human Rights Department, the Guardianship and Advocacy Commission, the Department of Revenue. So that's the Governor's allocation as part of this proposal, 202 million; in addition, 28 million dollars is offered in grants to community-based agencies that provide services to people in need of help with alcohol and substance abuse addictions. There is an $8 million add-on for funeral and burial expenses. Community mental health, we had discussed this earlier. We believe there was an error in the measures that passed the House and Senate and were signed by the Governor. This provides that additional $30 million to community-based mental health services that you all have been hearing about all summer long. It also provides $200 thousand for SIDS, sudden infant death syndrome, programs. And finally… finally, it provides $4.7 million in grants for homeless and homelessness prevention. I'd be happy to answer your questions. As I said when we discussed the earlier Bill, the total spending in this proposal is well under the cap unanimously approved for the current fiscal year spending by the Members of the House of Representatives. I'd be happy to answer your questions. And I'd appreciate your support for this spending measure."

"Mr. Eddy."

"Lady yields."

"Under, under the cap, $136 million under the cap that we set…

"…and we're going to use that $136 million to pay the old bills, right, Jack?"

"Yeah."

"Well, we may. That will depend on how the Comptroller deals with this money and how our revenues actually come in."

"As you know, the revenue estimates vary during the course of a fiscal year. We've had different estimates to date from the Economic and Fiscal Commission. and from the Governor's Office of Management and Budget. So…"

"…we don't know at this point what the actual final will be, but in terms of the cap we set, we know that with the spending we are still well under the target that we provided for ourselves."

"Well, let me just point out that we may know better when we come back in January what revenues really will be available. By that time, we may have newer estimates from the Commission on… from our own COGFA and also from the Governor's department… Office of Management and Budget."

"At this point, it looks like we're 136 million to the good, but if revenues begin collapsing over the next several months…"

"…we're going to have a problem."

"No, this is right, no."

"Absolutely." 09700086.doc 134  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Well, you know, you never know anything from one day to the next, I don't."

"But when the Governor says…"

"…when the Governor says publicly that this money will make it possible for him to avoid closing any of these facilities during the current fiscal year, I think he knows he can do it, and I think he means it. And should he not have meant it, I know I can count on you to hold his feet to the fire."

"I don't think so, and I don't think numbers have been thrown around here during this discussion. I would say this, that in order to meet the revenues we believe are available the Governor's Office had to go back, they had to 09700086.doc 135  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 pare down, they had to find ways to be more efficient, they had to accept layoffs they hadn't hoped to have to accept. So, there's been some real pain and some significant belt- tightening because instead of the 223 or the 236 all that is available in this reallocation… reallocation for the Governor, including keeping open those facilities, is 202 million."

"Well, as I say, there will be some layoffs. It's not going to be easy, it's not going to be without pain…"

"…but they were able to do the essential task of keeping open the facilities and avoiding even more layoffs by coming in at 202 million."

"Mr. Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Majority yield… Leader yield?"

"Yes, she will."

"Thank you. I knew we'd get here. How much money are we talking?"

"I got it… the total… the total… the total is 270 not counting the 140 million that's going into the Hospital Provider Relief Fund. That money is not being spent, but it 09700086.doc 137  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 is going into a dedicated fund so as to bring in another $136 million from the Federal Government."

"I… no, I understand the… the match. I think that's one good portion in this Bill. That does make sense, but my question is the source of the funds. I understand approximately $270 million, if I'm correct, was funds that were allocated because the Governor's Vetoes. Would that be correct?"

"That's right."

"Okay."

"But… but again, of that… of the 276 million we're really putting a lot of that money back into the Hospital Provider Relief Fund. So, we're… we're not treating it as funny money. We're…"

"Right and like, I get that."

"We recognize we're going to have to pay those bills, and we've put money into this fund. We will gather a Medicaid match and we will then not find ourselves owing quite so significantly the Medicaid bills in the next fiscal year."

"No, I think… think that makes sense because you'd be… you'd be getting the federal match, but I guess my question would be somewhat more technical. When a… when the Governor has vetoed the funds, would that then trigger the requirement that excess funds be used to pay bills because the Governor cannot amendatorily veto a dollar amount. I mean, if he wants to do that he ought to run for the General Assembly. But I'm just saying if he had vetoed the 09700086.doc 138  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 amount, would that then be a sup… be excess that should be used for…"

"I don't think so."

"…back bills?"

"I think that our commitment was to stay within the money we believe will be available. We don't know that it all will be available, but we're sticking with that number, and given that number, the allocations we are describing and about to vote on today are still under that number. And remember… remember, also, that one of the… one of the Vetoes was the 276 million in Medicaid funds. Well, that wasn't a real Veto in the sense that we're still going to owe that money."

"Right."

"We would owe that money in the next fiscal year, and this reallocation says let's take 140 million, put it into a dedicated fund, bring in the federal match so we can pay the bills. So, that really isn't part of the equation."

"Okay, okay. I… I think there's some good things in here for sure. I… I think that the office of Inspector General, for instance, needed the additional money because of the RTA."

"Right."

"I am concerned, however, when we're giving DCEO $4 million for assistance for funds for grants and contracts and administrative expenses, when we've seen such abuses in the moneys that these guys are supposed to be watching and they… they're asleep at the switch." 09700086.doc 139  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Those are other state funds, Representative, that's not money out of General Revenue, and it is money that they are supposed to be generating through their tourism activities. I'm not saying that means it's okay, but it's not part of the cap that we set for purposes of General Revenue expenditures."

"Okay. Well, I… I appreciate your answers. Thank you."

"Representative Bellock."

"Lady yields."

"Two hundred two is the total gubernatorial reallocation. I don't have that specific, but let me see if somebody else does. Yeah. I… I don't know that they gave us a specific number. They said at 202 million they could avoid some, but not all layoffs, and they could keep the facilities open through the remainder of this fiscal year."

"Yeah. If they… if they have it to give us. They… what they said was that they need money for operations which is part of the… the money that keeps the facilities open. So, it's not a simple subtraction or addition program."

"Seventy-five…"

"Seventy-six…"

"…and that money, the money for raises is not included in this reallocation."

"No, my understanding is that if they… that they… they can keep the fac… with this money they can keep all of the facilities open through the remainder of this fiscal year. They understand as you understand as we all understand, that there has to be a sensitive, efficient, responsible, plan in place to move people from state facilities into the community, and that plan is not yet final. And I know you will be engaged in working with the administration on 09700086.doc 141  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 putting appropriate touches to the plan so we are responsive and responsible to the people who are in these facilities today."

"Mr. Sacia."

"Lady yields."

"He wants to retain employees currently employed by the Department of Revenue who undertake an audit function. He didn't get all that he wanted back, but he did get some opportunity to keep those… all of those layoffs from happening, which also is true in the Department of Human Rights, the Department of Human Services, I believe Children and Family Services as well."

"No. It is absolutely correct to say this is not to hire new auditors, nor new people. This is to retain people who otherwise were scheduled for layoffs, and not all of them, just some."

"Mr. Dunkin."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Sponsor yields."

"Representative, can you clarify the amount that is going to the Monetary Award… Program? How much were we restoring?"

"Oh. Thirty-three point five million that is not from General Revenue; that's other state funds."

"Yes. That's… that's from the Student Loan…"

"Yes."

"…Operating Fund."

"That's exactly right, Student Loan Operating Fund." 09700086.doc 143  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Thank you. To the Bill. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a… a very solid piece of work coming from our colleagues on both sides of the aisle, certainly in this chamber, but also in the Senate chamber where you had Members meeting for a number of hours, a number of days, going through line by line items as it relates to your appropriations, and subtraction of some appropriations as well. This final piece of legislation that we have here really takes into consideration of a number of items that we all feel so very passionate about, and I think it’s a great Bill in that… it's not a great Bill, but it’s a good bill given where our current state of economic affairs are. I mean there are 165 thousand students, for example, who are dependent on the Monetary Award Program. But for this grant opportunity, many of these students, who are in all of our districts, would not have the opportunity to participate in finishing their college career. And so, what we're doing is being very responsible with seeing to it that our state keeps its commitment to educating and investing in our youth, so they can take things to the next level and not be a part of the other side of our society. They're actually going to add value once they finish and complete their academic programs. So, again, I want to commend the Sponsor, and all of our colleagues who… who sat long mornings, long hours in the evenings to see to it that we were holding all of us responsible, specifically, with us restoring dollars back towards the Homeless Veterans Youth Programs, the Child Protection Services, Human Rights, Mental Health Services, the deaf and hard of hearing, Women's Health Operations. 09700086.doc 144  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 This is a responsible budget at this point in time, given where we are financially. Pretty soon we'll be out of our financial debt in short order given the… the positive returns on our sales receipts and our corporate taxes that we've been receiving over the last several months, from July 1 until now. And so, this is, again, a great step forward. I'm looking forward to having those services restored. The citizens here in the state, many of them who cannot afford to have lobbyists down here, are looking upon us and doing the right thing in sustaining the services and keeping our doors open, and seeing to it that some of our most vulnerable citizens are protected. So again, Speaker, and Madam Sponsor, thank you for presenting this… this responsible Bill."

"Representative Mulligan."

"Lady yields."

"Representative Will Davis." Davis, W.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Does Sponsor yield?"

"Leader yields." Davis, W.: "Representative, one thing that I didn't hear just want to make sure that we're clear on something that's important to my community, to certain business owners in my community is with regard to indigent burials."

"Yes." Davis, W.: "How is that impacted in this Bill?"

"That is in this reallocation and it would increase the funeral and burial expense line by $8 million." Davis, W.: "Okay. So, what will be the total amount then for indigent burials?"

"About 10, close to 10 million." Davis, W.: "Close to $10 million?"

"Yes." Davis, W.: Thank you very much, Representative." 09700086.doc 146  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"Representative Feigenholtz."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Lady yields."

"Representative Currie, I've been asked by a couple of providers who have concerns about this Bill whether or not there is a rate cut in this Bill of any kind or if there is going to be enough pressure on the budget that cycling will increase for Medicaid lines?"

"There is not… there is no rate cut in this Bill; there's not a rate increase either."

"Well, that's fortunate. Representative Currie, I'd like to… I'd like the Body to stop for a moment and give the Budget Committees and our staff on both sides of the aisle including the newly minted Gary Hannig a hand for doing yeomen's work on putting this together."

"And I'm happy to lead the applause."

"And we had a very, very difficult spring when we made an inordinate amount of cuts to some very, very significant programs. There were a few hiccoughs in the road. We… the math was wrong on mental health. The intent to cut substance abuse was certainly not what the Human Services Appropriations Committee wanted. We wanted to fully fund community mental health, fully fund substance abuse providers so that we can lay the groundwork to safely deinstitutionalize people in these DD and mental health facilities. I've got a commitment from the Governor's Office that that is also their intent. I know that we will all be looking at the Governor's commitment to do that very carefully. I'm also delighted to know that we've been able 09700086.doc 147  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 to avoid the increases in wages in this because I know that we really want to drive this money into services. And, that's exactly what's happening here, Representative Currie. Is that accurate?"

"Yes."

"Okay. Well, thank you very much for your hard work and I, too, encourage an 'aye' vote."

"Leader Currie to close."

"Thank you, Speaker and Members of the House. My hat indeed is off to the Minority and Majority Members of our five Appropriations Committees and to our excellent staff. They had a very challenging spring. They met the challenge and this fall they had the opportunity to go back and do some reallocations, another challenge, but again, they met it very well. Unfortunately, we were not able… we didn't have enough money to fund everything that they set as a priority, but I think we did a pretty good job. And I can tell you that the people who are served by our community mental health and community alcohol and substance abuse programs, our homeless programs will be very grateful for you when you vote 'yes' on Senate Bill 2412."

"Those in favor of the Lady's Bill shall vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Please record yourselves, Members. Have all voted who wish? Please take the record. On this question, there are 92 voting 'yes' and 20 voting 'no'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, for committee announcement." 09700086.doc 148  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011

"The Chair recog… Mr. Clerk, please read the Adjournment Resolution."

"Representative Currie moves for the adoption of the Resolution. Those in favor say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. And Resolution is adopted. The Chair recognizes Mr. Bradley on a point of personal privilege."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I could have the attention of the Body, please. For the last several months the Revenue Committee has been working on the issue of reforming the tax system in Illinois. As a result of that work in conjunction with the Senate, Representative Harris and I put out an agreed proposal which passed out of our committee yesterday in a bipartisan manner. As you know, the Senate sent us something very similar to what we had proposed here in the House using the same framework but with some different numbers, which passed in a bipartisan matter in the Senate but which was voted down here in the 09700086.doc 149  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 86th Legislative Day 11/29/2011 House. At this point in time we have reached a temporary impasse. This is not going to happen tonight. There are 35 Democrat votes to put on the Harris-Bradley Agreement. That's not sufficient to pass this Bill. We are prepared to come back as soon as there is an agreement, as soon as we are able to work this out, in order to save the two companies that have threatened to leave in order to try to provide relief to working families and relief to small businesses in Illinois. Unfortunately, that day is not today. So, whether it's tomorrow, the next day, the next week, we are prepared to come back as soon as this is settled. So, at this time, we're going to continue to work diligently, but it's not going to happen on November the 29."

"Mr. Mathias."

"The record will reflect your intentions."

"Mr. Eddy."

"State your point, Sir."

"Leader Currie now moves that the House stand… there allowing perfunctory time for the Clerk this House stand adjourned to the call of the Chair. Those in favor say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. And the House does stand adjourned."