Illinois House Floor Debate — May 21, 2012

"The House will be in order. Members will be in their chairs. We shall be led in prayer today by Rabbi Ora Schnitzer who is with the Highland Park Hospital in Highland Park, Illinois. Rabbi Schnitzer is the guest of Representative May. Members and guests are asked to refrain from starting their laptops, please turn on all cell phones, and rise for the invocation and Pledge of Allegiance. Rabbi Schnitzer."

"We'll be led in the Pledge of Allegiance today by Representative Moffitt."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Leader Currie."

"Thank you, Spe… thank you, Speaker. Please let the record reflect the excused absences of Representatives Arroyo, Chapa LaVia, DeLuca, and Greg Harris."

"Mr. Bost."

"Please take the record. There are 109 Members present. The House does have a quorum; we're prepared to do our business. Mr. Clerk. Members we're going to begin with the Order of Senate Bills–Second Reading, near the bottom of page 8 of the Calendar. Please be ready when your Bill is called. Senate Bill 275, Mr. Pritchard. Please read the Bill."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 281, Representative Mussman. Out of the record. Senate Bill 409, Representative Cassidy. Representative Cassidy. Please read the Bill."

"Representative Cassidy."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Floor Amendment 3 to Senate Bill 409 removes language concerning a… an unrelated portion of the Bill. This Bill deals with special service area tax reform and the… there was language related to energy efficiency bonding that… that was unrelated and needs to be removed. So, this Amendment will remove that language. And I ask your favorable… I ask that it be adopted."

"Lady moves for the adoption of the Amendment. Those in favor say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. House Bill… I'm sorry. Senate Bill 679, Mr. Saviano. Out of the record. Senate Bill 968, Dan Burke. Out of the record. Senate Bill 1034, Representative Soto. Out of the record. Oh, you're ready to go. Please read the Bill."

"Third Reading. Returning to Senate Bill 1034, was there an Amendment, Mr. Clerk, that was not called?"

"Thank you. And you want the Bill on Third, Representative? Bill remains on the Order of Third Reading. Senate Bill 1692, Representative Zalewski. Please read the Bill."

"Representative Zalewski."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move for the adoption of Floor Amendment #4. It simply clarifies some language for the realtors and deals with some advertising language that the Attorney General approved of. I ask for its adoption."

Speaker Lang: "Gentleman moves for the adoption of the Amendment. Those in favor say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 1900, Mr. Sullivan. Mr. Sullivan. Out of the record. Senate Bill 2494, Mr. Brauer. Please read the Bill."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 2545, Representative Mussman. Please read the Bill."

"Representative Mussman on the Amendment."

"The Amendment to 2545 is simply the agreed upon language by all parties which removes opposition. And I request an 'aye' vote."

Speaker Lang: "Those in favor of the Amendment say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

Speaker Lang: "Third Reading. Returning to page 9 of the Calendar, Senate Bill 679, Mr. Saviano. Please read the Bill."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 1673, Leader Currie. Please read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 2559, Representative Howard. Please read the Bill."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 2761, Mr. Jackson. Please read the Bill."

"Mr. Clerk, what were those notes?"

"Senate Bill 2885, Representative May. Please read the Bill."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 3216, Representative Nekritz. Representative Nekritz. Out of the record. Senate Bill 3146. Please read the Bill."

"Please hold that Bill on the Order of Second Reading. Senate Bill 3252, Mr. Mathias. Out of the record. Senate Bill 3257, Mr. Jefferson. Out of the record. Senate Bill 3261, Representative Cassidy. Representative Cassidy. Out of the record. Senate Bill 3314, Mr. Zalewski. Mr. Zalewski. Out of the record. Mr. Zalewski is right there and I missed him. Yeah… Please read the Bill."

"Mr. Zalewski."

"I move for the adoption of… Mr. Speaker, I move for the adoption of Floor Amendment #1."

"Do you have any interest in telling us what it does, Sir?"

"It… it simply adds language dealing with the fact that… this is merely a clarification and doesn't do anything to preexisting rights under the law."

Speaker Lang: "Those in favor of the Amendment say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 3349, Representative du Buclet. Please read the Bill."

"Representative on the Amendment." du Buclet: "I move to have the House amend Floor… adoption House Amendment #1."

"I believe this is Amendment #2, Representative." du Buclet: "Amendment #2. Thank you."

"And can you tell us briefly what the Amendment does?" du Buclet: "Amendment 2 clears up a discrepancy between the 710 Amendment and the original Amendment which had probation at 24 months which brings it now to 12 months."

"Lady moves for the adoption of the Amendment. Those in favor say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 3415, Representative Will Davis. Out of the record. Senate Bill 3433, Representative Cassidy. Out of the record. Senate Bill 3442, Mr. Tryon. Out of the record. Senate Bill 3458, Representative Hernandez. Out of the record. Senate Bill 3513, Representative Dan Burke. Please read the Bill."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 3518, Mr. Moffitt. Please read the Bill." 09700139.doc 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 3572, Leader Cross. Mr. Reboletti, do you want to move it? Out of the record. Senate Bill 3576, Mr. Fortner. Please read the Bill."

"Mr. Fortner."

Speaker Lang: "Those in favor of the Amendment say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 3718, Representative Bellock. Please read the Bill."

"Representative Bellock."

Speaker Lang: "Those in favor of the Amendment say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. Those 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 3764, Mr. Zalewski. Please read the Bill."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 3798, Mr. Mathias. Out of the record. Senate Bill 3810, Mr. Lyons. Out of the record. On page 14 of the Calendar, under the Order of Postponed Consideration, there appears Senate Bill 1967. Mr. Clerk, what is the status of that Bill?"

"The Bill shall be moved to the Order of Second Reading and held. Leader Currie on a Motion."

"Thank you, Speaker. I move to suspend the posting notice re… requirements so that Senate Bill 1338, 2958, 09700139.doc 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 3280, 3397, 3802 may be heard in Executive Committee; Senate Bill 171 (sic-3171) in Judiciary I; Senate Bill 3629 in Personnel & Pensions; House Bill 5192 in Revenue and also House Bill 5457 and Senate Bill 3241 also in the Revenue & Finance Committee and as well Senate Bill 3497. I know of no opposition. And I'd appreciate your support for the Motion."

"Representative, just to make sure I heard you correctly, you referred the Senate Bill 3171, is that correct? It's in the middle of page 1."

"Yes. And for Judiciary I."

"I thought I heard you say a different number. Thank you. Is there Leave? Leave is granted and the Lady's Motion to suspend is adopted. On the Order of Senate Bills- Second Reading appears Senate Bill 3252, Mr. Mathias. Please read the Bill."

Speaker Lang: "Third Reading. On page 11 of the Calendar, appears Senate Bill 3386, Mr. Mathias. Please read the Bill."

"Mr. Mathias." 09700139.doc 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"Those in favor of the Gentleman's Amendment will say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

"Third Reading. Senate Bill 3798, Mr. Mathias. Please read the Bill."

"Third Reading. Under the Order of Concurrence, on page 14 of the Calendar, appears House Bill 222, Mr. Franks. You proc… ready to proceed on the Concurrence Motion? Mr… Mr. Franks."

"We don't have the analysis, but I'll move to concur with the Senate Amendment to House Bill 222."

Speaker Lang: "I think you're going to have to tell us something about it, Mr. Franks."

"It's a pa…"

"Make up something."

"It's a page and line Amendment. It inserts that each county, township or municipality is responsible for the accuracy of the information it gives to the state. So, it just clarifies the intent."

"Those in favor of the Gentlemen's Motion will vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all 09700139.doc 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Record yourselves, Members. Have all voted who wish? Mr. Dunkin. Please take the record. On this question, there are 109 voting 'yes', 0 voting 'no'. And the House does concur with Senate Amendment 1… #1 to House Bill 222. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. The Chair recognizes Mr. Jefferson."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Point of personal privilege, please."

"Please state your point, Sir."

"I just want to take this opportunity to recognize one of my great constituents from the great city of Rockford, Illinois, Miss Tanya King, right here. Please give a warm welcome."

"Welcome to Springfield. Thank you for joining us. House Bill 3188, Representative Gabel. Please proceed."

"Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, the Amendments… I ask for an adoption of Amendment 1 and Amendment 5. Amendment 5 becomes the Bill. This Amendment keeps the per diem reduction at $111 per day, the travel reimbursement at 39 cents per mile on Session days, prohibits cost of living increases for Members of the General Assembly, Constitutional Officers, agency directors and members of boards and commissions and it continues the requirement that we take 12 furlough days per fiscal year."

"Lady's moved that the House concur in Senate Amendments 1 and 5 to House Bill 3188. And on that question, the Chair recognizes Mr. Reboletti."

"Lady yields."

"Fifty cents per mile."

"Pardon."

"I believe it's 50… 50 cents. I'm not sure."

"It's the same as last year's Bill."

"I believe so. It changes all our mileage."

"It's 12 a day… it's 12 furlough days per fiscal year."

"I'm not sure. I'm not sure it really matters. It's 12 furlough days a year." 09700139.doc 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"It's the same as it was last year."

"Prohibiting it? Yes."

"We're not having a COLA this year."

"I think that would be decided by CMS."

"Thank you. I appreciate…"

"Mr. Bost."

"The Lady yields."

"That's all right, Sir. Please proceed."

"On occasion, I am."

"For me, it's about $3 thousand a year."

"They're pleased. They feel that we show that…"

"Representative David Harris." Harris, D.: "Thank you… thank you, Mr. Speaker. Question of the Sponsor."

"Sponsor yields." 09700139.doc 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 Harris, D.: "Representative, we're taking… this… this Bill would require furlough days, correct? And it addresses salary, it addresses mileage and per diem."

"COLA." Harris, D.: "Does it address district office allowances?"

"No, it does not." Harris, D.: "Any reason why?"

"Not that I know of." Harris, D.: "Any reason why, no, just it's not in there. May I ask you this…"

"This is a Senate Amendment." Harris, D.: "Yeah, the Senate never gets anything right, do they? Is… is… would you consider this a pay rai… a pay cut?"

"I do." Harris, D.: "Would you consider it a salary cut?"

"It's not a salary cut, but we… it is a… we get… we have less in our paychecks at the end of the day." Harris, D.: "Did you say it is not a salary cut? Is that what you said?"

"This is a suspension in the cost of living adjustment." Harris, D.: "Right. It is not a salary cut. So, our salary isn't changing, we are taking some furlough days, correct?"

"Correct." Harris, D.: "So, yes, we are inconvenienced, but we are not taking a salary cut. And what is our pension based on? The furlough day figure or the higher figure without the furlough days?" 09700139.doc 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"Our pension is considered on our salary… is based on our salary." Harris, D.: "Correct, correct. So when the press picks this up and says, oh, the Legislators have done all these wonderful things and they're taking some pain themselves. Well, guess what, the pain isn't that great because it's not a salary cut. Our pensions, which so many of us and state employees are so concerned about, is based on a higher figure. Yes, little bit of inconvenience but don't cry for us here in the General Assembly. Thank you."

"Mr. Dunkin."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Lady yields."

"Representative, this Bill here… who brought this Bill to you? I missed all the extra action. But… so, can you enlighten me on where this Bill came from."

"This is a Bill… this is an Amendment that came from the Senate."

"Okay. You picked the Bill up. I'm trying to figure out sort of what inspired you to get this Bill, to get it from the Senate."

"You know, I… I'm involved in… in both the Medicaid Committee and the Human Services Committee. And we are in the process of reducing budgets and I feel that it's our responsibility as leaders of this state to take a pay cut ourselves."

"Really. So, you're speaking now on behalf of every State Legislator in the House and Senate." 09700139.doc 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"The Bill's on the floor. You can vote 'yes'; you can vote 'no'."

"No. I'm just asking you a simple question, Representative. Since when did this new responsibility come?"

"I'm carrying the Bill. I… I believe in the Bill."

"Now are you aware that we can, today, without legislation, reduce our salary… or actually refuse to take a red or copper cent of any of our state salary, of any of our cost of living adjustment of, well, mileage, per diem. Are you aware of that, Representative?"

"Yes."

"So, you think… you think we needed legislation for this type of action to be taken?"

"I think this sends a clear message to the public that we are willing to take… that we are willing to make sacrifices as well as they are."

"So, Representative, you would admit that this is pretty much… this is for the media or certain groups that… that really think the best and the worst of us, this legislation?"

"This is… this is the fourth year that we're addressing this matter."

"So, Rep… I'm just trying to figure out… since you're very conscious of what it is that we need to do in reducing our cost of living and furlough days added, is… is there an opportunity for you, if you're willing to at least reduce your salary by 80 percent? Are you interested with that, 09700139.doc 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 Representative? You don't need any legislation for it, but you sure can do it, if you wo… if you like."

"Well, I appreciate the information."

"Well, Rep… so, that means you're really… you're ready to pull your Bill and exercise your own fiscal austerity as it relates…"

"Representative, if…"

"…to it is what you want to do, right?"

"…If you don't agree with the Bill, you are… you can vote against it."

"I'm… I'm curious about you, the Sponsor, since you have the Bill up here on the board and you got a couple of Sponsors I understand. So, are you willing to make a major reduction in your salary and really sort of supersede this… this political posturing here with this Bill?"

"I'm willing to make the reductions that are in this Bill."

"Now, does this Bill make you look good in front of the newspapers or your constituents?"

"I think this is the responsible thing to do."

"For who, Representative, who?"

"For us, as Legislators."

"Oh, really now, Representative, really. Thank God, I… I, you know, I have the utmost respect for my friend and colleague. I certainly see what you're trying to do. I hope you get all the support from our good friends in the media and… you know, as a matter of fact, do you mind if I become a cosponsor, Representative?"

"That would be wonderful." 09700139.doc 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"All right. And so should I vote for it or against it or vote 'present'."

"You should vote for it."

"All right. And should I take some additional salary out of my own… cut out of my own salary?"

"No. You can make the same sacrifices that everybody else is making."

"Yeah, 'cause I need my constituents to really feel the way that… the way that, you know…"

"I appreciate your leadership."

"My leadership, huh? I'm following your lead, Representative. So, I should vote what, now? I mean, this is a good political Bill here, you know, those good… those do-good political groups will look at me and say, wow, Robyn Gabel and Ken Dunkin actually did the right thing. We put some skin in the game and had a cost of living adjustment. You know, us politicians here. So, now this doesn't address the Medicaid or the… oh, hey, there you go. I was looking at you on the screen. You look great on the screen and in person. All right, Representative, I'm going to follow your lead and do the right thing because you think this is good public what?"

"Policy."

"Good public policy. And what's good for… good public policy is good for me."

"Thank you."

"Thank you."

"Thank you." 09700139.doc 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"Those in favor of the Lady's Motion to Concur will vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Members, record yourselves. Mayfield. Please take the record. On this question, there are 105 voting 'yes', 2 voting 'no', 2 voting 'present'. And the House does concur with Senate Amendments 1 and 5 to House Bill 3188. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Mr. Clerk, what is the status of Senate Bill 3798?"

"Please… would you move that Bill back to the Order of Second Reading and read the Bill."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, this is one of… one Bill based on our new rules that require that three-fifths of each side of the aisle vote for it. So, we'll need to take a Roll Call vote on this Amendment. Those… or this Bill at this time just to move it… Those in favor vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Monique Davis. Please take the record. On this question, there are 109 voting 'yes', 0 voting 'no'. And three-fifths of each 09700139.doc 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 side of the aisle approving, this Bill will go to Third Reading. Mr. Franks."

"Thank you… thank you, Mr. Speaker. May I have a parliamentary inquiry?"

"Please state your inquiry, Sir."

"The reason I'm asking is the first time that I recall that on a Second Reading we require three-fifths vote and perhaps the parliamentarian can enlighten the Members of the reason. Because as I understand this was a technical correction and not a substantive correction and yet it still required the three-fifths, so perhaps we could have the parliamentarian…"

"The Chair…"

"…explain."

"…would be happy to answer your question, Sir. We passed a rule that states that any Bill that amends the Income Tax Act needs a three-fifths vote from each side of the aisle to go to Third Reading. It’s the first time, I think, we've had to do that, but we did have to do that."

"I… I knew you knew that and I appreciate you passing the quiz. Thank you."

"Thank you, Sir. I… I…"

"Keep… keep it up. Keep up the good work."

"I appreciate that very much. The next item would be House Bill 3810, Mr. Crespo."

"Thank you, Speaker. And I move to concur with Senate Amendments #1 and 2 to House Bill 3810. Amendment #1 provides that the Minority Leader of the Senate and the House will appoint two Members each to the Tuition and Fee 09700139.doc 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 Waiver Task Force which is created in Amendment #1. And Senate Amendment #1 abolishes the tuition waiver after September 1, 2012, instead of June 1, 2012, that was originally in the Bill, and creates the Tuition and Fee Waiver Task Force."

"Gentleman moves that the House concur in Senate Amendments 1 and 2 to House Bill 3810. And on that question, the Chair recognizes Representative Will Davis." Davis, W.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentleman yields." Davis, W.: "Representative, can you go back over what Amendments #1 and 2 do again, please?"

"Let me start with Senate Amendment #1. This changes the… the date when we terminate the tuition waiver program. Instead of June 1, as we originally had it in the Bill, it moves it to September 1, 2012, and secondly, creates the Tuition and Fee Waiver Task Force." Davis, W.: "And what is… and that's in Amendment #1?"

"Amendment #1. Amendment #2 pretty much as… makes changes to the first Amendment. It provides that the Minority Leader of the Senate and the House will appoint two Members each to the task force; previously, they only had one Member each." Davis, W.: "So, the task force is charged to do what?"

"It will conduct a thorough review of the tuition and fee waiver programs offered by all the state institutions." Davis, W.: "I mean, is this every tuition and fee waiver program that's at an institution that would include athletic programs as well." 09700139.doc 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"All discretionary and mandatory tuition waivers, correct. All of them." Davis, W.: "Oh. And so it will review them to ultimately determine what?"

"Well, they'll file a report to the General Assembly and the Governor and the State Board of Higher Education and based on that report, it's up to us whether we take action or not." Davis, W.: "So, it's possible that we could move to eliminate every opportunity that a student will have to attend a state university be it academic or athletic?"

"The task force doesn’t do that." Davis, W.: "No. I said they may… they may make a re… make… they may make a recommendation…"

"They can make a recommendation." Davis, W.: "…and so it's possible that they can recommend that we eliminate all of those opportunities, correct?"

"I… I can't venture a guess what they're going to say, but right now anyone… anyone can do that." Davis, W.: "Well, then… then tell me… then tell me what the task force is supposed to do. I mean, what are they charged with doing other than reviewing them…"

"Yeah." Davis, W.: "…reviewing them to determine what?"

"To review to determine the merit of each and every program." Davis, W.: "The merit of each and every program."

"Right." 09700139.doc 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 Davis, W.: "Okay. Is there anything in the… in the Bill that speaks to what merit there… are they looking at… for the academic side? Are they looking at the grade point averages of the students that have received them in the past? For the athletic programs, are they looking at the records of the teams to determine whether or not these are good athletes or not? I mean, what can you tell me about what this task force is supposed to do."

"You know, Davi… I would imagine they will take a very objective look at each and every one of them and report to the General Assembly and the Governor and the State Board of Higher Education. It's up to us then to decide based on those recommendations, for or against, what to do." Davis, W.: "So… so, the Bill really doesn't set forth what they're supposed to do, ultimately, or what they're supposed to find. It just says review them."

"Right." Davis, W.: "That's it. Nothing more, nothing less."

"Correct." Davis, W.: "Okay. So, do you have any in… inclination why the Bill doesn’t go into a little bit more detail in terms of what they're supposed to ultimately try to find?"

"Representative, I believe, as the Senate President felt, after talking to his caucus, this is something they needed to do. They figured, hey, you know, we've had… we've had that discussion on this House Floor before. We had a Representative who wanted to abolish the tuition waivers that they give out to the sons and daughters of employees at the state institutions. We can do that now. We don’t 09700139.doc 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 need a task force. The task force will just give us a thorough review of what they do what… what's in each… what's the mission of each and every tuition waiver and report back to us." Davis, W.: "Okay. Is that something… I believe this is your Bill, this year, so, is that something that you would just personally recommend, in light of everything that's come about in terms of tuition waivers, that we move to eliminate opportunities for university employees?"

"No. The end game here, from the get-go, was to eliminate the legislative tuition waiver. This gets us there. I am not recommending that we abolish any other tuition waivers. To say… or to imply that a tuition waiver, the legislative tuition waivers is the same as all the other tuition waivers, Representative, is like saying that donkeys and elephants are the same animal because the four legs… four legs and a tail. They're two different animals. So, we'll take a thorough review of each and every one and make a recommendation." Davis, W.: "Well, if you call them both tuition waivers then what's the distinction that you're making between them? You just said they were two different animals, but if it's a tuition waiver, whether for university employees or for students that live in legislative districts, is it not a tuition waiver? I think that's the same thing, correct? So, then what distinction are you making between the two?"

"Oh, there's lot of distinctions Representative. For one…" Davis, W.: "But…" 09700139.doc 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"…for one, a legislative tuition waiver, we give nothing in return to give that out. When you look at the employees of these state institutions and the tuition waivers they get, someone could argue at least there's a quid pro quo. They are giving something… getting something in return. Secondly, as far as I know, I've been in… I've been in office, 5 years, I have not heard, not even once that there's any tuition waiver out there besides legislative tuition waiv… waiver where folks are abusing it, where some of the conduct, you know, borders almost on a criminal. I haven’t heard that about the other tuition waivers. I have heard that about the legislative tuition waiver. So, there are distinct differences between the legislative tuition waivers and all the other, whether discretionary or mandatory tuition waivers. There are some differences." Davis, W.: "So, because you haven't heard it, in your mind, it doesn't exist then?"

"Oh, I never said that. May… maybe the task force will let us know. Maybe the task force will uncover something that we do not know." Davis, W.: "Okay. Well, I guess, in light of the Bill the fact that the task force… the Bill that en… I guess engages this task force really doesn’t say much about what it's supposed to do other than review. How often they supposed to meet? Well, how… how many Members are on the task force? Let me start there."

"Okay. One second. There… yes, Sir, the… the task force will… the way it will be appointed, Representative, the 09700139.doc 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 President of the Senate and the Speaker appoint two Members each, the Minority Leader of the Senate and the House also appoint two Members each, the President and the Speaker designate cochairs and the Board of Higher Education provides administrative support." Davis, W.: "So, is that eight people?"

"I believe so, yeah." Davis, W.: "I'm sorry."

"It… it's, I think, whatever we have on the analysis. I believe it is eight." Davis, W.: "Okay."

"Each Leader appoints two." Davis, W.: "Okay. So, since the Bill also, I guess, moves the effective date… so, as I'm going through my scholarship process right now, where I have an independent committee that reviews all the applications and ultimately makes the decisions and that I don’t even know who applies until they hand me the list of the eight finalists and the four alternates. Considering that I go through this process, the eight people that they ultimately choose, what happens to them? Are you telling me that they don’t benefit from a waiver this year or they do, or what's going… what's going to happen?"

"They… they… if you have… those that you've given out already, get it. And the fact that it was extended to September 1, you have another round." Davis, W.: "Okay. So, these students that may be awarded this year, as long as it's before September 1…"

"Correct." 09700139.doc 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 Davis, W.: "…they will be afforded that opportunity to complete the entire year?"

"Right." Davis, W.: "The entire year?"

"Correct." Davis, W.: "All right. Thank you very much."

"Mr. Reboletti. Yes, the Sponsor will yield."

"I just said that. Yes, the Sponsor will yield."

"Representative, that was the intent, originally. My understanding is that there were some Members of the Senate and maybe the House, already had some folks in the pipeline and that's where the… President Cullerton had to do to get the support."

"Yes. All mandatory and discretionary, all tuition waivers will be reviewed."

"The total amount of…"

"…of the waivers, Representative, I believe is $414 million, out of which 13 million are legislative tuition waivers."

"They'll have a report next year and after that, the task force just goes away."

"April 15, 2013."

"How about that."

"Representative, I believe when I first introduced the Bill, that there were some fiscal notes and I believe the 09700139.doc 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 fiscal notes, the State Board of Education did contact the universities to get a breakdown. My understanding is that all the universities came through except one, did not give us… give us the numbers. But I don’t have them before me right now."

"Excuse me, Mr. Reboletti, please…"

"…please hang on a second. Ladies and Gentlemen, it's a very important piece of legislation. Could we please hold the noise down. If you have to talk, move yourselves to the rear of the chamber. Mr. Reboletti, please proceed."

"Representative, that's a very good question. All I know is that currently it's $414 million a year in tuition waivers. What percent that represents of the total budget, I don’t have that with me."

"That's something that they… they have to figure out. The… our Bill, the legislative tuition waivers, as I said, 09700139.doc 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 last month, they don't charge the students for tuition, but for anyone to imply that they're losing money, believe me when I tell you, they have all the other students subsidized the cost for those students who are taking those… those spots."

"That's correct."

"Mr. Sacia."

"Mr. Bost."

Speaker Lang: "Ladies and Gentlemen, the noise level is unbearable in the chamber. Ladies and Gentlemen, please. Mr. David Harris." Harris, D.: "Mr. Speaker, thank you very much. Ladies and Gentlemen, to the Bill. My distinguished colleagues from Stevenson County and Williamson County and Cook County that have… have questioned the need for this Bill, as a cosponsor, I will tell you that I was uncomfortable with what the Senate did. They put two Amendments on this Bill. One of the Amendments as was discussed creates a task force and there's probably some good logic to that task force. It talks about looking at all of the tuition waivers, which cost, as we've stated, $415 million, but they laid out and the Bill lays out what they should use as a criteria in looking at these waivers, such as the institution's justification for the need, the program's intended purposes, the program's eligibility and selection, its costs, its benefits resulting from the program and whether or not it serves the public interest. That's a good thing. I commend the Senate on what they did. Quite frankly, I was troubled by Amendment #1; however, we, in the House, I think, s… did the right thing. We sent this out of here saying it's going to end as of June the 30th this year. The Senate said, no, we're going to extend it. So, those folks who give scholarships have another opportunity to give another round of scholarships in the new fiscal year. 09700139.doc 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 And what was said previously about the need, as we stated when we passed House Bill 3810 initially, the overwhelming majority of those who give the scholarships both here in the House and in the Senate, do it correctly. they do it with a selection committee. They do it the right way and they don’t abuse the system. But I'll say what I said when we sent 3810 out of here, unfortunately, the program itself… has brought this Body into disrepute. I move Concurrence… or I support Concurrence in these two Amendments."

"Mr. Dunkin."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Sponsor yields."

"Representative, if this Bill does not pass does that mean that this Bill will conclude the legislative scholarships in June of this year?"

"If this Bill does not pass, Representative, I'll… we're back to the status quo. Nothing changes."

"Wait, say that again."

"If this Bill does not pass, with the Concurrences, the Bill just dies."

"Okay. Okay. So, we need… so we vote 'no', the Bill is dead, right?"

"I got you."

"All right, Representative, I'm not sure if you were really taking heed to what's been said by a number of your colleagues, our colleagues, in terms of some of us having a very responsible Legislative Scholarship Committee. Did any of that resonate with you at all?" 09700139.doc 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"Representative, the… there's a fundamental flaw with this program, notwithstanding all the other issues, and this unfunded mandate to the state universities, there's no money behind it. Consequently, all the other students are subsidizing the cost. That's a fundamental flaw, Representative. And please, keep in mind, we've had this program for close to a hundred years."

"So you're saying there's no cost to this program?"

"There's cost to the universities, Representative."

"So, there's no cost to this, yes or no?"

"I… no, I never said that."

"Okay."

"The cost… the… the cost is being paid off by the other students who attend the state universities."

"The… what cost is… are there… there's either a cost or there's not a cost, Representative. There's no cost. Do you know who chair the Appropriations for Higher Education?"

"No."

"Really. Do you know who, in this chamber, who chairs the Appropriations Committee for Higher Education for the House of Representatives in the State of Illinois?"

"People are pointing at you, Representative. I don't understand the connection though."

"The connection is, I have at least a… a modest understanding of higher education cost here in the state. Would you agree, maybe? There is no cost…"

"You said very modest, maybe…"

"…Representative, there is no cost. So, let's speak to what this Bill is. You may have a handful out of 177 09700139.doc 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 Members, Representative, who abuse or have been accused of abusing this particular program. But I bet you the lion's share of us here in this chamber and the other chamber, including myself and my committee, where I haven't made a choice in years. I have a very respected and noted committee of Legislative Scholarship Committee members and they go through a thorough meritorious selection process, Representative. So, we had two Governors… two Governors convicted, they're in jail right now. Should we abolish that Office, also? That's the pattern of the Governor's office right? The last two. So, we should throw the baby out with the bathwater or is this what it really is, Representative. Is this for a nice, press pop for you with some newspaper or some field…"

"Stop right there. Stop right there."

"What is it then?"

"It has nothing to do with a press pop. This is the right thing to do. We need to do it now. We've been trying to do this for many, many years…"

"You are slighting every Member in here, who has been responsible for years."

"…so don't make it personal, Representative. Do not make it personal. Do not make it personal."

"You are… you are slighting Members who have been respected… respecting this process and this legislative scholarship initiative by saying what you feel and what we should do. This is…"

"That's not what I feel, Representative." 09700139.doc 40  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"…this is not a constituent issue, this is a media issue. This is a media issue for you. You're telling me and my colleagues that we've been disrespecting this process or our committees that go through a meritorious process should be thrown out because of what you feel. That's what this legislation speaks to. Are you saying that my committee members lie… that if we trade something for political benefit. What are you saying, Representative? That's a popularity contest that you're trying to adhere to. That's how I look at it. I'll take it personal too. The people who are selected to sit on my committee and others are highly respectable people who donate their time and instead it's so easy for us to send a young person to prison downstate then it is to send them to college and become meaningful and responsible taxpayers. So, you can't tell me this legislation doesn't have any political benefit for some of us here in this chamber."

"Mr. Dunkin."

"Yes, Sir."

"I've been patient with time with you, but if we could… can you… can you address the Bill now, Sir."

"Representative, I hear you loud and clear. This… this Bill here has been politically footballed back and forth for years based off of a handful of individuals, maybe, who have not adhered to this process of fairness within their respective districts. I feel very, very proud of the committee that has selected students to go to school, to go to medical school, law school, undergrad, where there's zero cost, not a red cent. So, I guess the compromise is to 09700139.doc 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 look at all the scholarships, all the waivers. By the way, Ladies and Gentlemen, a waiver is a waiver, there is no economic impact. There is no cost. So, this has to be what I just said it is, it's political pandering. And I hope you get everything you want from this legislation because my folk on my committee are highly offended that the insinuation of them utilizing this for political purposes is highly offensive. So, they're offended and I'm offended. And so, you're saying that what I've been utilizing for the last 10 years should be thrown out because this is some feel good, knee jerk reaction because it's in the media and we want to adhere to the media. We want to really get those big endorsements at the end of our political year here so we can be successful at running for office again. Well, this is not it, Representative. You know what will be it? When we can deal with our budget deficient, when we can deal with our pension issues, the Medicaid problems that we have here. When some of the problems that we have been spending… by the way, not even paying into our pension, taking pension holidays. And so what we do is we cut people, who've been here for 35, 40, health care. We mess with their pensions. Even though we know damn well, 20, 30 years ago we said we going to do one thing and we flip the script on them at this time. So, let's find something of more substance to argue and to present on this floor other than some of this political pandering and not slight and disrespect other Members process in their district who respects this legislative scholarship process. So, I'll be voting 'no' on this, Representative. I don't mean to offend 09700139.doc 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 you personally, but you and I know how I feel about this and you know that this is disingenuous at best. Vote 'no'."

"Mr. Riley."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentleman yields."

"Representative, I… I think that we had some pretty intense debate when the original Bill came up. And I think that, you know, there's points on… on both sides of this issue. But as you can see from some of the testimony, a lot of ill will still exists because, again, and I'm not going to try… you know, I… I've argued my points before. And all of my points, I think, we're very well-taken. Folks can vote the way they want, but I brought up the fact that all of these other waivers took pl… you know, there were people in the original testimony when I brought up there was $414 million of other waivers given, they didn’t know it. You know, we've… we've heard unfortunately a lot of silly thing… and I… deal the cards up straight everybody. You know, if you don’t like it, vote against it, vote for it. But, you know, things like folks who sit on Appropriations Committees, you know, who are making determinations of… worth billions of dollars, then had to say to the… you know, had to go out publically and say, well, I'm not qualified to give out a scholarship. Then what are you doing on Appropriations Committee. You know, frankly, I'm tired of this because I haven’t heard a lot of really intense analysis done on this. You know, again, there's a lot of people in this chamber who have taught on 09700139.doc 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 the collegiate level, I have. And essentially, it's a lit… few more papers to grade. If we came into a classroom and said, have you guys pay, all of a sudden, okay, you know what, we're going to give you your money back. That's some fiscal impact. Two or three or four more people in the class means the professor has to grade more papers. You know, so that's kind of, frankly, you know, excuse me for saying, that's the silliness that we've been involved in on this whole issue. It probably will get the votes. Fine and we'll be done with it, but I think some very intelligent people really had to dumb themselves down on these chivalrous that I… you know, that I've been hearing over the past year or so regarding these scholarships. Let me just ask a question. Part of the one… part of the things that are going to be looked at is gender equity. Don’t you feel that at least with that particular one, that flies in the face of some of requirements of Title IX?"

"Representative, you have to repeat the question."

"All right. Repeat… repeat the question."

"I only heard Title IX."

"Gender equity is one of the waivers that we give presently and it's one of the waivers that's going to be examined in the task force. And I'm saying, doesn’t that fly in the face of some of the requirements that we have to do under Title IX."

"And I would imagine that the task force will recognize that, yes."

"I'm sorry,' cause I really can't hear." 09700139.doc 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"I said I recognize the task force will… will acknowledge that."

"Well, I would hope so because I think, you know, some of these… some of these are… are probably mandates."

"Right."

"You know, that we… that we must deal with. To the Bill. Ladies and Gentlemen, I don’t really think this is our… this has been one of our finest hours of the whole debate on these waivers. And I'm going to vote 'no', a lot of people will vote 'yes'. You know, you vote the way you vote, but I would just hope that we can really engage ourselves in… in the kind of good public policy and analysis that a Bill like this need… needs to have whether you vote 'yes' or 'no' on it because some of things that we've done and said I don’t think represent us in the best light. Thank you."

"Minority Leader Cross."

"Mr. Reboletti. You think it'll be just as quiet for you as it was for Mr. Cross?"

"Mr. Thapedi."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in light of some of the Amendments, what is the vote requirement for this Bill of this juncture?"

"Sixty votes, Sir."

"Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentlemen yields." 09700139.doc 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"Representative, I've… I've had a chance to look at the language in the Bill very quickly here and I'd like for you to… if you would bear with me. I know that you've answered quite a few questions, but if you would direct your attention to the portion in the Bill that talks about the findings and declarations of the General Assembly. Do you see that in Committee Amendment #1?"

"Okay."

"All right. Now, here it basically lays out the money and the percentages, correct?"

"Correct."

"Okay. And in fact, it says that the total amount of tuition and fee waivers for the year 2011 is $415 million, correct?"

"That's correct."

"And of that $415 million, 84 percent of those waivers were discretionary and that they were awarded at the discretion of each institution and were valued at over $350 million dollars, correct?"

"Right."

"Okay. But the remaining portion, which is only 16 percent, those were waivers that were done by way of statute, correct?"

"That's correct."

"So, what you're talking about here with the legislative waiver program is that 16 percent, correct?"

"Not necessarily, Representative. Sixteen percent is all encompassing. So, I mean, the…"

"Well… no… well…" 09700139.doc 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"…legislative tuition waivers is just a part of the 16 point."

"Okay. Well, help me understand. The 84 percent that are discretionary, what types of waivers are those? Are those for football players, basketball players, scientists, et cetera? Is that who that's for?"

"Those are the ones given to employees, civil service, academic or talent, athletic, gender equity and athletics, foreign exchange students, out-of-state students, foreign students and financial aid and science."

"And that's the lion's sha… you said financial aid?"

"Correct."

"What kind of financial aid is a waiver?"

"Well, each school might give financial aid not backed by any scholarship money. So, it's a waiver instead of a scholarship, where scholarships are normally funded."

"Okay. So, you're saying that waivers and scholarships are the same thing. Is that what you're saying?"

"Tuition waivers and scholarships are two different things."

"Okay. So, why are you not attacking that 84 percent because that seems to be the lion's share of the money?"

"Well, the task force will make a recommendation, Representative. There's… I mean… and… and… we had other attempts to get rid of some of the other tuition waivers. We're working on one right now and that's the legislative tuition waiver."

"No. And I certainly understand that and I understand that your point and the need for a task force. And I would 09700139.doc 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 agree with you that there probably is a need for a task force, but don't you think that you're putting the cart before the horse. Wouldn't it be more logical to let the task force do its job and then make the determination as to where the adjustments need to be made."

"Well, there's two things, Representative. As I've mentioned earlier, there's a fundamental flaw with our tuition waiver, there's no money behind it; coupled with the fact that lately… recently we’ve heard or read about many abuses. We need to do it now. Keep in mind there's a public outcry out there asking us, please get rid of these tuition waivers. We pass this Bill out of the House at least twice the last three years. We had over 30 votes and 30 Sponsors in the Senate. We have a Governor who said, give me this Bill, I want to sign it. I think the time is now."

"Okay. And I understand that you believe that the time is now, but we did also award a pretty large assistance package to Sears, the Board of Trade and the Mercantile Exchange, as well, correct?"

"Yes, Sir."

"And that was far more than 348 million, correct?"

"Yes."

"Okay. I… I guess I'm not understanding and perhaps for purposes of legislative intent, you can differentiate for me, waivers that are discretionary and waivers that are mandated by statute. Because, again, in the findings that we're going to make if we pass this Bill, these are findings that we're making that we are distinguishing 09700139.doc 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 between discretionary waivers and statutory waivers. And if I understand correctly, the legislative scholarship provision, or at least the legislative waiver that we're discussing now in 3810, would be a waiver that would not be discretionary but would be one that is mandated by statute."

"Correct."

"Okay. So that's why I'm trying to explore that. That why are you focusing in on a small number when there's a much larger number that you can be focused in on. And you identified a potential task force that will cure these wrongs but yet for some reason you don’t want to let the task force do its work, you want to just eliminate the smallest portion of the whole bunch. That… that's what I'm trying to understand. I… I don't mean to quarrel with you."

"No."

"I just want to make sure that I understand…"

"Representative…"

"…legislative intent because there will be lawsuits if this passes."

"…well, I'm a law school dropout. I'm not sure about the lawsuits, but… but I'll tell you dollars do not drive this piece of legislation. It is a part of the legislation. Again…"

"Did you say the dol…"

"…it's an unfunded mandated, number 1 and number 2, look at all the abuses and Representative, I will suggest to you, that what we've seen so far is just the tip of the iceberg. Even those that say, hey, I have a committee; no 09700139.doc 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 one has taken time to review and look at the com… at the work of those committees."

"Okay. Well, Mr. Speaker, if… if this Bill receives the requisite number of votes, I would ask for the vote to be verified."

"Your request is acknowledged, Sir. Mr. Moffitt."

"Gentleman yields."

"The task force will consider each program's waivers and they'll look at the need, purpose and goals, selection criteria, the cost, resulting benefits and interest insurers, public or private."

"If… if I take away the legislative tuition waivers, I'm with you."

"Representative, I believe a hundred years ago, when this program was first put in place, that was a very valid argument. You had a selected few folks who can go to state colleges. We did not have the number of state colleges we have today and it does serve good public policy. That's not the case anymore. We have MAP grants and I believe the MAP grants do take into account where these students are selected from. So, we have other avenues to address that, but this… this does not do that."

"My understanding, it's what I've heard, what we'll… I will have to verify that."

"The cost last year was $13.5 million in legislative scholar… waivers."

"The savings, again, all it does is we have the other students will not be subsidizing that. There… is… there's an actual… keep in mind, these universities have a limit number of seats. It's not like they can just take whoever they want and they have to figure out how many seats they have and then pay whatever cost they… they incur…"

"…to run the institution."

"Beg your pardon?"

"Oh, I would imagine some are, Representative. I… I mean, I… I… you know…"

"…I can't speak for all 12."

"Representative, if you want to introduce a Bill to look into that, I'll be more than willing to consider that."

"Representative Hernandez."

"Thank you, Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentleman yields."

"Representative, did you ever offer the scholarship since you've been in office?"

"My first year."

"So you would say you have a choice whether to offer the scholarship or not?"

"I believe, currently, we have many Legislators who are exercising that option right now."

"But there are those who are not, correct?"

"Correct."

"To the Bill. I just believe that I entered, also the Legislative Body at the same time you did and ever since then I have formed a committee and have offered the scholarship to the students within my district and found it to be incredibly, incredibly changing their lives. At some point, I… I did get some phone calls from students thanking me very, very, very much for th… this opportunity because they were seeing some of their… their friends having to pack up and go home. The fact that they had the opportunity to be there because of this… this scholarship was their way of continuing their education. So, based on that, if you do 09700139.doc 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 it right, if you really try to correct the abuse, I think that we are giving our kids a chance, those who are vulnerable, those who would never, never be able to. So, I truly believe that we can put the time more so in trying to work on the system so this particular program can continue. And I ask all the Members to vote 'no' on this. Thank you."

"Mr. Durkin."

"Mr. Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentleman yields."

"Thank you. Representative, I'm reading the analysis and the Amendments that we're asking us to concur with 09700139.doc 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 indicate that the task force will review tuition waivers, correct?"

"Correct."

"Now, currently, doesn’t the IBHE report each year already to the General Assembly on these tuition and fee waiver programs?"

"I believe so. I have not seen the report."

"So, this task force will be charged with reviewing the report that's already provided, number 1 and also will consider each program's need, purpose, and goals, eligibility and selection criteria, cost, resulting benefits and interests it serves, public or private, correct?"

"Correct."

"So, they're already doing this. You're not asking them to do something different except having an extra group review the… the reports, correct?"

"Yeah. There not… Correct. They're not acting on anything. They're just looking at these tuition waivers, reporting back to the General Assembly, the Governor, and the State Board of Higher Education."

"Because that's what the Concurrence Motion is really about and we've heard a lot of other things. But that's not what the Concurrence Motion is, correct?"

"Correct."

"Okay. To the Bill. I appreciate my friend standing here and… and fighting for this. And I gave these tuition scholarships for a long time. I stopped recently. You know, I gave them to the schools. I gave them to each of 09700139.doc 56  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 my high schools and I asked them to choose a recipient. We were never involved at all. And I said my only criteria was, really, give to a kid whose life it's going to change. And I think they did a good job of picking the children and I didn't even know about it 'til after they were announced. But as I sit back and I decided not to give these anymore, much like the previous speaker, I do believe it's an indefensible perk. You know, we aren't princlings here; we're not princesses; we're… we're public servants. We're elected by the citizens to be one of them. It's true; we're not here to create fiefdoms. I think… I don’t think we're here to bestow special privileges on the anointed few who we decide should get them. I think that every kid should be able to go to college not just the ones who we choose. This is really a question of how we fund education. You know, in Georgia my nephews are able to go to college on the Hope Scholarship, because they do well enough in high school… and every kid who gets a B average in Georgia, gets to go college if they want to. We should be able to do this in Illinois. Every child should go to college who wants to. That's what the debate ought to be about. We ought to be fairly funding education. Everybody gives lip service and how it's the most important thing, but we don’t fund it. So, that's what we ought to be doing, but we have to get rid of these perks. Ladies and Gentlemen, the time has passed. Let's look at the bigger picture. Let's take care of all of our children, not just the chosen few. Please vote 'yes'."

"Representative Monique Davis." 09700139.doc 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 Davis, M.: "Thank you so much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Gentleman yields." Davis, M.: "Representative Crespo, how did you vote on the Sears million dollar gift from the State of Illinois?"

"I voted for it…" Davis, M.: "That was a scholarship."

"…like many other Members. What was your question?" Davis, M.: "How did you vote on the gift of millions of dollars to Sears?"

"I'm not sure I understand. You mentioned a gift, I'm not sure I understand that." Davis, M.: "Well, how did you vote on that Bill?"

"Oh, we… I supported it." Davis, M.: "You supported it. How did you vote on the bailout or the large sum of award or gift to the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, CME? How much did we give them?"

"Represen…" Davis, M.: "Over $100 million. Over $100 million. These children are living in an economic time where the interest in banks is higher than it's ever been, so if they borrow money to go school, they have the debt of a mortgage on their backs when they finish. I will not be a hypocrite and pretend that this is going to save the state money and that we're going to have a big whopping budget left to divide up with people getting grants and awards, especially if they're already wealthy. It's not fair. It is not fair. These are children who live in Illinois, who 90 percent of the time will work in Illinois, they will be productive 09700139.doc 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 citizens and as the chairman of the Higher Ed Approp. Committee stated, they won't be going to prison. Now, I'll be so much happier when we decide we're going to cut the prison budget. I have never heard that since I've been here. No matter how much it goes up, nobody ever complains. That's just what we have to pay. We don’t want to educate the people in prison, knowing they're going to back and back and forth. So, I'm not going to be a hypocrite, Ladies and Gentlemen, and with great respect for each and every one of you, what more can we take from the taxpayer? What more can we take from the little average man and woman who goes to school… goes to work every day. How much more can we take from them giving nothing in return. Tax increase, reduction in Medicare, what more can we take from them? I don’t care if you think this is noble. If you think you're doing something that's really going to get you a lot of votes. Will your heart really let you take a scholarship from a kid who's trying to get a degree in the City in State of Chi… in the State of Illinois? A kid that just wants to go to college. Tuition is how much nowadays? Over 15 thousand a year, maybe. All of them don’t go to the University of Illinois, all of them do not. Some go to Eastern, some go to Chicago State, but the issue is, do we really want to take something else from the major taxpayers in the City of Chicago and the State of Illinois, do we? If another Sears comes up, how will you vote? If another CME comes up, how will you vote? How many more awards and grants to the wealthy are we going to give away as we take 09700139.doc 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 away from the children in the State of Illinois. Vote 'no'."

"Mr. Sommer."

"Gentleman yields."

"It… it'll continue for the life of whatever the award was given, Representative. So, to your point, I would imagine you are correct. The program ceases to exist September 1. If students get a four-year waiver, they probably get the four-year waiver."

"Well, the program… if we vote this today, it will end."

"The last speaker is Representative Flowers."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"Gentleman yields." 09700139.doc 60  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"Representative Crespo, are there taxpayers who have to pay their state taxes who have no children in the school system at all?"

"If I understand your question correctly, I think you're right."

"Pardon me?"

"I think you're right, if I understand the question correctly."

"So, when these people pay taxes and they get nothing in return as far as tax breaks what, do we give them in return? They're paying their taxes, what do they get in return?"

"They get the services that their local government or State Government or Federal Government provide in lieu of the taxes."

"So, the students who are going to school, is it fair to say that this is an investment for those who get an education? This is an investment for the State of Illinois, for those who get an education."

"Representative, you need to be more specific. What you mean by an investment."

"By… by a student… by a student getting an education by way of what you call a perk, but it's taxpayers' money. Taxpayers who have children in the system, taxpayers who don’t have children in the system, but either way it go, for every child that go to school, does not the entire State of Illinois benefit from that child's education? Because that means that that child will be educated and then have a job and possibly stay in Illinois." 09700139.doc 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"Generally speaking, yes, not always the case though."

"Well, let me ask you this. Does it cost more to incarcerate than to educate?"

"I don’t have the figures before me, Representative."

"We can assume, we can… be… because of the numbers is out there, we can assume that it does cost more and some people stay incarcerated much longer than four years or six years or eight years. So, that is a cost. That is a cost to the State of Illinois, where they get no returns on their tax dollars. But as far as education is concerned, they will see some revenue. They will see some benefits because there will be more children that's educated, more people that's working. Right now, there's lots of jobs out there but there's no one to fill them because there's no one being educated. The schools, Sir, are empty, despite the fact that when I started here years ago we had 11 prisons and 11 institutions of higher education. We have increased our prisons; we have not increased our educational institutions. So, who has been the benefactors and who's been paying for these increases in prisons?"

"Representative, you… you mentioned this before, when we talked about this Bill and I don’t subscribe to the assumption that folks who don’t go to school end up in prison."

"Well, then why would you want that?"

"There might be some correlation…"

"There's no jobs."

"…but just because they go to…" 09700139.doc 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"Why would you want that? Why would you want someone whose… whose… whose parents is a taxpayer because the schools have been paid for over and over and over again. Why would you not want a child to benefit from ed… from an education?"

"I think we all want children to benefit from education. That's not what we're talking about here, Representative."

"And let me ask one other question. Why is it that it would be in our best interest when the… when the people of the State of Illinois elected us, but I'm going to acquiesce my authority for the people in my district for someone else to choose who would give them an education. And they probably don’t even know they exist, but because I'm closer to my constituents I know what's best. So, why would I acquiesce my authority to the State Board of Education who have not equally funded the programs that they have across the state. All you have to do is look at the numbers."

"Again, I'm trying to follow your logic, Representative, with all due respect. We're not saying here that we're passing this responsibility to the State Board of Education. That's how your statement came across. We're just eliminating the legislative tuition waiver. That's all this is."

"And what will the State of Illinois benefit by this waiver being eliminated?" 09700139.doc 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"We will have many, many students in the state colleges who won't have to subsidize this cost, at a tune of $13.5 million."

"No one is subsidizing this cost now, but the people of State of Illinois."

"We might disagree on that. We might disagree on that."

"I'm a taxpayer. I'm subsidizing the cost. And other people who pay taxes whose children cannot get in school and have been denied because they can't afford it. Everybody cannot afford to send their child to school and because they can't afford it, should they be denied?"

"No."

"Why should they be denied? As the other speakers have spoken and said, we have given many of billionaires from the Sox, the Cubs, the Bears, and everyone else, all kinds of tax breaks. Why can't we give our taxpayers a tax break? I would like to have an answer."

"This is not a tax break. Again, I'm try… with a due respect, Representative, I don't follow your logic. This is not a tax break."

"Excuse me. This comes from the taxpayer of the State of Illinois. They built the institutions. The taxpayers built the prisons, the taxpayers built the colleges. That is… those are their seats."

"Well, Representative, going back to an earlier speaker then, we should give tuition waivers to all taxpayers."

"Well, then, I tell you what, I'll be more than happy to help you or would you join me in sponsoring that legislation because I agree with you 100 percent. If I 09700139.doc 64  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 support this, would you help pass legisl… because the taxpayer is already paying for it anyway?"

"No."

"Oh. Mr. Speaker, Ladies an…"

"Vote for this first and I might consider it."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is a very bad Bill. The taxpayer of the State of Illinois has paid for these institutions. They've paid their taxes. They've got nothing in return. All they want is for those who can't afford it for their children to have an opportunity to be educated. They're not the working rich; they’re the working poor. And a child should not be discriminated against just because of the zip code in which they live. And I urge a 'no' vote."

"Mr. Dunkin you spoke in debate. For what reason do you rise, Sir?"

"My name was mentioned in debate, Representative, if I recall. First off, I'd like to…"

"I don’t… excuse me, Sir… I don't think your…"

"…I'd like to call for a verification."

"…the Chair rules your name was not mentioned in debate."

"You sure. Can I address… give me like two minutes, Representative."

"No… no, Sir, you may not. Mr. Crespo to close."

"Thank you, Speaker, Members of the House. Let's… let's get something… make something very clear. This is not a scholarship; it's a tuition waiver. A scholarship implies that there's some funding behind it; that's not the 09700139.doc 65  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 case here. A hundred years ago, when this program was first put in place, it probably made a lot of sense. You had a selected few who can actually attend college and can afford it. That's not the case anymore. We have more state colleges, we have MAP grants, we have a lot of other financial aid that these students can use. Folks, here's the kicker, people who keep talking about reforming this thing, folks who say we should just set more rules. We have only one rule for the tuition waivers and that is basically, you have to reside in the district. We can't even do that. Can you imagine if we had more rules, now we had to police this thing, this would never work. And for those of you who… who say and I agree… listen we want to help all the folks in our district as much as we can, but Ladies and Gentlemen, please, to suggest that you only have eight students in your district that need the help. That's wrong, you have many, many more. Let's talk about a program to help those. Now, for… for those who was trying to make this personal, hey, listen, I voted for this three years and I didn’t carry the Bill. And I've heard so many folks in my district saying, you know, with all the corruption in this state we need to start taking a step in the right direction and this is it, it starts today. I want to thank President Cullerton for passing the Bill in the Senate. I… it was a very healthy debate and I hope I get your… your vote on this Bill. Thank you very much."

"Mr. Crespo has moved that the House concur in Senate Amendments 1 and 2 to House Bill 3810. Mr. Thapedi has asked for a verification. Members will be in their 09700139.doc 66  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012 chairs and vote their own switches. Those in favor of the Motion shall vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish. Mr. Clerk, please take the record. On this question, there are 79 voting 'yes', 32 voting 'no'. Mr. Thapedi, do you persist in your Motion, Sir?"

"No, Mr. Speaker. I withdraw my Rule 56 request."

"Mr. Thapedi withdraws his verification request. There are 79 voting 'yes', 32 voting 'no'. And the House having concurred in Senate Amendments 1 or… and 2 to House Bill 3810, this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. The Chair recognizes Representative Williams."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Point of personal privilege."

"Please state your point."

"I just want to take a moment to welcome the Korey Family to Springfield and my Pages over here who go to Burley Elementary School in my district. And wanted to make a note that Jillian is very interested in debate, so she's enjoyed her time here in Springfield."

"Thank you and welcome to Springfield. The Chair recognizes Dan Burke." Burke, D.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. And a point of personal privilege."

"Please proceed, Sir." Burke, D.: "Just like to take a moment and wish my colleague, my seatmate, Dena Carli, a very happy birthday today." 09700139.doc 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 139th Legislative Day 5/21/2012

"Happy birthday, Officer, happy birthday. Mr. Clerk, Agreed Resolutions."

Speaker Lang: "Leader Lyons moves for the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. Those in favor say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Agreed Resolutions are adopted. And now, Leader Lyons moved that, allowing perfunctory time for the Clerk, the House stand adjourned 'til Tuesday, May 22 at the hour of noon. Those in favor of that Motion will say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. And the 'ayes' have it. And the House does stand adjourned 'til tomorrow, Tuesday, May 22 at the hour of 12 noon."