Illinois House Floor Debate — May 29, 2012

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let the record reflect all Republicans are present today."

"Yes. Speaker, thank you very much. A point of personal privilege."

"I'm joined on the floor today by two very special people, my parents, who came down again to make sure I'm voting correctly and I… If we can give them a round of 09700146.doc 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 applause. They just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary a few weeks ago so."

"A point of personal privilege."

"Thank you. If I could ask Christian Cunningham and his parents… Please join me in welcoming Christian Cunningham. Christian's the young man in the red vest. Christian recently won the Today Show Kids' Edition of The Voice. Hundreds of thousands of audition tapes were sent in. Christian was one of several invited to New York City. He got through the preliminaries and in the finals received 70 percent of the vote. Christian is joined today by his parents Derrick and Alicia Cunningham. The mayor of Danville, Scott Eisenhauer is seated right next to him. Scott, give a shout out. As you might know, the community of Danville is well-known for its stars: Dick and Jerry Van Dyke, Gene Hackman, the late, great Bobby Short, Donald O'Connor. Do not be surprised if Christian Cunningham joins that august list. An extraordinarily talented young man, Christian, your state is proud of you."

"Thank… thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Republicans received… request an immediate caucus."

"Ninety to… yeah."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hold on, give me just a minute here. Mr. Speaker, is it the… is it… may the Spon… will the Sponsor yield?"

"You say that there's no opposition to the Bill, but our analysis shows it… was that on the first part of the Bill? Has there been an Amendment added…"

"…that now changes it? Okay."

"Okay. What was the problem with the original Bill and what did the Amendment do that made it to where there's no opposition?"

"The original opposition was from what groups?"

"You don't… you… Well, the bankers' concern though, what was that on? What exactly did the language say that their concern was?"

"Okay. So…"

"So, as the way the Bill is written now, there is still an ability to review the records? Is that correct?"

"Just as the Bill is written now, these records for certain points can still be opened for review, correct?"

"Okay."

"Okay. Is… what is the reason we feel that we need to seal these records in the first place or allow the courts to seal these records? What… what happens? Why would… why would… why would… why would we want to seal these records?"

"Okay."

"Here's a question I have for you…"

"…as well. Right now, if a person is charged with a felony of any type, they lose their FOID card and their ability to own or possess a firearm. Once this is sealed does that then allow them that opportunity as well, to come back to that?"

"Okay. Are you for that?"

"Yeah. Would you be for that that we would come back at some other time and draft legislation that would allow them to do that as well?"

"Because… because if it's a nonviolent… What we're saying here is, is that okay… and we understand how this happens. What we've done over the years is, is we have created law quite often that falls under a felony class and I've watched it happen and these are things that maybe whenever I was a child growing up or a teenager you could do certain 09700146.doc 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 things and it was wrong, you get your hand slapped and you get a misdemeanor, but now we've created felons of these. So, now we're using this piece of language to hide that and say we don't really want them to… even though they were charged with a felon, we don't want that reported out there. But likewise, those nonviolent crimes stop children in my area or young men and young women in my area that maybe they made a silly crime that all of a sudden when they are older and they want to take their child hunting or whatever they can't do that because they have a felony on their record. That's what I'm saying. That's about what you're wanting to do here, correct, except for the fact that they're not going to be able to get their FOID card back."

"I agree."

"Yeah. I…"

"…and I understand that. I'm over here by the… I understand that, but what you're saying is, is you're wanting to… because we have created certain laws and made them Class III or IV Felonies, and odds are they were probably misdemeanors until just a few years ago, but we've 09700146.doc 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 done that, now what we need to do is go ahead and hide these records so it doesn't really hurt them any time, correct? That's what you're saying. And I don't disagree with you. I'm just asking if that's what you're saying."

"Okay."

"And… and a better life in your area is having a good job; it is in mine. But a better life in my area, as well, and this is all I'm saying is, is that if we would on the FOID card issue and simply provide that as well, they could go hunting with their children. If they aren't… if they didn't have a violent crime, but you see that's the problem. When we create felonies on what were misdemeanors around here and we say we're going to be tougher, but we run into problems like this. Representative, I'm not in opposition to your Bill. I'm just trying to express a point and a concern that I have that, rather than looking to hide these felonies, why don't we go back and analyze which felonies maybe should still be misdemeanors that we've changed over the years. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, I appreciate your work on the Bill. I'd asked you to make some changes and I also asked you to speak to IRMA, and IMA, as well as the bankers. And can you tell us how those conversations went and why we have one of 09700146.doc 15  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 the Amendments that we have? It is… it is pretty loud. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"And I did request you at a couple of committee hearings ago that you would talk to IRMA and the manufacturers and they didn't take any position on the merits."

"And I appreciate you doing that. This also requires that the PRB has to vote unanimously to recommend a sealing before it goes to a Circuit Court…"

"…where the crime happened, right?"

"After you move to seal the offense… offenses that are listed here, you can only do it one time, right?"

"And I appreciate you putting it in there. And how long do you have to wait from the time that you complete your sentence on parole before you can… you can file a petition with the court… with the PRB and then with the court?"

"So… that's another important part. So, if you get caught driving with a suspended license or an ordinance violation, the clock starts all over again, right?"

"And at the court proceedings, would the state's attorney, if there's a victim, will everybody have a chance to discuss the sealing before it is… the judge makes an ultimate decision?"

"To the Bill. I'd like to thank the Lady for her work on this. I think it makes some sense to give people one more chance after they've taken five years to show that they've been able to live a productive life and are trying to make themselves better. And I would urge an 'aye' vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative Hernandez, I applaud you and I stand with you on this Bill. I think what you're trying to accomplish is very meritorious and Representative Reboletti 09700146.doc 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 brought out the vast majority of those issues. It's… it's fair to say that the ultimate authority, if the Prison Review Board determines that it would be good to do this, that the arresting authority or the Illinois State Police is the ultimate authority. Is that correct?"

"Okay. Again, I think what we have here, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, is a situation where many folks get caught up in something and they serve their time, as was pointed out by Representative Reboletti, five years passes, they're trying to get their life together. Unfortunately, they can't get work because they have a felony. And your legislation corrects that if certain criteria are met. This is not a walk in the park to get that. Would you agree?"

"Absolutely. They are going to have to prove that they are meritorious citizens. They are trying to fix their… their situation in life. They don't want to go back to the penitentiary. They don't want to have to live a life where they can't be productive members of society. Representative, you have a good piece of legislation and I stand proudly with you."

"Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Under House Rule 18(g), I move for the discharge of Amendment #4 to Senate Bill 1673. Under House Rule 54(a)(2), all Motions are assigned Standard Debate status and I wish to debate my Motion. Upon the conclusion of the debate, I ask for a recorded vote on the Motion to discharge. Under Rule 49 in Article 4 Section 8(c) of the Illinois Constitution, any vote shall be by recorded vote whenever five Representatives shall so request. There's at least five Members on my side of the aisle that wish for a recorded vote on the Motion. And I move to discharge Amendment #4 to Senate Bill 1673."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Motion and to the Amendment on Senate Bill 1673. It's a fairly simple Amendment and it really will help us decide whether or not we do pension reform in the State of Illinois in any meaningful way. And you have in your hands, on the other side of the aisle and in your power in the Speaker's Chair, the ability to decide… I'm going to take my time as long as it's quiet, Mr. Speaker, if you could keep it down. This is the issue of the day." 09700146.doc 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012

"You can decide whether or not you want to do pension reform with this Amendment. It's a fairly simple Amendment. It simply says that from the pension Bill that was filed this morning at 7:50 a.m., 10 minutes before committee, that we will take out the cost shifting to local schools at the suburb… in the suburban and downstate areas of the state. The Bill that was filed at 7:50 a.m. this morning does not affect Chicago schools in any way. It simply says downstate and suburban schools you will be on the hook for normal cost and unfunded liability that occurs as we move forward. The unfunded liability number… or the normal cost number could be as high as 6 to 9 percent, the unfunded liability number, depending on what the market does, what assumptions we do with interest rates, will take that number even higher. So, what that means for downstate and suburban schools is, on top of the fact that we're $800 million behind in paying you, you are going to have at the end of the day about anywhere from 8 to 12, maybe even higher, percent of money less available to you for your schools. And more importantly, at the end of the day, to our taxpayers and our property owners, you will suffer because the state decided to shift its responsibility on to your backs. About a week ago, I stood at this podium or in this chair and said, congratulations to all of you for the work you did on Medicaid reform, a bipartisan collaborative 09700146.doc 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 effort that brought together both chambers, all four… both Parties, the Governor's Office in a collaborative effort to do something no one ever thought we would do, and we did it. Was it perfect? Maybe not. Could we do more? I think some would say yes, but it was pretty good. And we did it because I thought we had entered into a new era of working together. Oh, my word. Working together on big issues of the day because this state is on the verge of economic collapse, economic collapse. As I've said to you before from this spot, Members of our caucus and our Parties said, why we working with the Democrats? They caused the mess. And we say… I say, we have a responsibility 'cause it's so bad and let's work together. Two or three weeks ago I stood up here and said good job. We came together as a Senate and as a House and Republicans and Democrats to address the issue of retiree health care. Not an easy task, but we worked together and we did it, entered a new era of Illinois government. The Speaker came to me this year and said, can we work together on the budget in a bipartisan collaborative manner? Same kind of concerns from our caucus, same answer, why, yes. We have a mess. Let's work together. Together, give and take; we have some ideas, you have some ideas. We find consensus. We did some things we didn't like; you did some things you didn't like. But we didn't force things down each other, we came together and have addressed three of the real big issues. And then, the biggest issue… the biggest issue, pensions, $85 billion in unfunded liability. You've heard the drill; to go bankrupt or we crowd out other services. We're going to cut the 09700146.doc 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 budget perhaps 900 million depending on what happens there and we start out working together. Wow. I had the false sense and hope that we were going to actually do something on pensions. Collaborative effort: Elaine Nekritz, Darlene Senger, Bill Brady, Senator Noland working together and then all of a sudden the Speaker said to me several weeks ago, I don't know that we should do TRS. I said, well, TRS why wouldn't he do it; it's half the problem. Well, we should do SURS and SERS, I said, yeah, but I assume you want to GA. And I said, well, what about TRS? He said, why don't you… why don't we wait and do it in the fall. I said, you know, I don't think that makes a lot of sense. I know it's easy politically to do that, but why would you do that? Well, I just don't know that we want to tackle it now. I said, well, I think that's a mistake. And… and he… so, you know, that every time we've talked I've said we've got to do all these things if you want us… we like working with you, but this is one of the things we have to do. So, we kind of played this game of going back and forth on whether we're going to do it and last week he said, well, you know what, I think we will do them, but we're going to put in the cost shift and impact downstate and suburban schools to the tune of 8 to 12 to higher percent, to their detriment and again, not the schools but the kids and the taxpayers and the property owners. What do you do about Chicago, Speaker? We're not going to touch Chicago. I said, well, we don't think this works. We've told you from day one we're not on this program. Is our… are our days of collaboration and bipartisanship over? I said I'm willing 09700146.doc 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 to talk to you about a different approach. Maybe there's a compromise here. That's what life's about, isn't it and a new day? He said, no, this is what we're going to do. We've got some ideas and I don't know, make… get them to one of the guys on our staff. I said, well, we're willing to talk to you. And it became clear, over the last couple days, that he was going to go down a route that reminded me of the old days of Mike Madigan. No more collaboration, no more bipartisanship, but this will be my way and if you don't like it, too bad. And the biggest issue of the day, the biggest liability that the state's ever seen, we're on the verge of getting it done and he says no more. I've got a different idea, take it or leave it. And then he has the audacity in committee this morning to say, people need to take responsibility for their actions. Maybe you need to take responsibility, Mr. Speaker, for your actions because… think about this, Mr. Speaker, for the last 40 years you have had your fingerprints on the mess we have today. Not making pension payments, go find Rod Blagojevich and ask him what it was like a few years ago when he and Speaker Madigan decided not to make a pension payment. That's what happened the last time we didn't make a pension payment and we caused this mess and exacerbated the problem. You want to be the head of a union in the City of Chicago or the State of Illinois and go teach for one day so you can be part of TRS? Who do think's responsible for that? Be a Chicago laborer because of a Bill we passed and you can collect two pensions. Being here more than 20 years and you get a 3 percent increase in your COLA. Who needs to take 09700146.doc 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 responsibility for their actions? We need to take responsibility for our actions. We need to pass a pension Bill. We need to do it now. Whether there's a cost shift in here or not, the savings are the same. Whether there's a cost shift or not, the savings are the same. I don't know what the numbers are. We got a Bill at 7:50 a.m. this morning, 7:50 a.m., with a committee that started at 8:00, we don't know what the savings are. We're going to have those analyzed, but whatever they are you don't need to do a cost shift to get the savings. So, at the end of the day, we don't need to pit downstate and suburban school people against Chicago. We had enough of that. We're one state; we hear that all the time and we are. We benefit from you; you benefit from us. But what you've done in this has caused a warfare between upstate and downstate and Chicago schools. I don't think that's healthy, but that's what we're doing here today. And we're saying to taxpayers and suburban and downstate schools, sorry, we caused the mess; you fix it. You fix it. That's not acceptable. It really begs the question though, are you really serious about this cost shift or are you looking for an excuse not to call the Bill? Don't you think if we were serious or you were serious on your side of the aisle, there'd be a few teachers running around this building? Remember about four or five years ago when Governor Quinn said, I think we ought to have teachers contribute 2 percent more to their contribution. At the time, kind of bold. All of a sudden there was a rally outside here with 20 thousand teachers in the State of Illinois converging on Springfield and the 09700146.doc 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 Capitol and said we don't like this. It's certainly… I certainly find it curious that there's not a single rally going on outside this building or inside this building to this Bill. Does that mean maybe the same old game's going on? Hey, wink, wink. Hey, union officials, you take care of me I take care of you. Don't worry about this. This is just a little ploy. The Republicans going to say they don't like the shift and then I'm simply going to take the Bill out of the record or I'll call. It's going to fail and say, I tried, but they didn't like it. But you don't need to come down, it isn't really, really going to happen. We'll put this off 'til the fall; we'll get through the election. I'm your buddy; you're my buddy. That's how it's been for 40 years. And then, we'll… we'll just… we'll blame other people not ourselves. Accept responsibility? Maybe it is time we accept a little responsibility. We're ready to accept responsibility. We didn't short the pension payments. We weren't involved in those enhancements that didn't get paid for, but we want to accept the responsibility. We want to pass a pension Bill. You can do it today. Take the shift off. Let's get back to that collaborative effort that we all thought was great and did work. It really did work. A beautiful thing, imagine that. And let's do that. Let's pass pension reform and be done with it. On another note, Mr. Speaker, I don't know where the Governor is. I haven't seen him here in the last couple months, but assuming he's listening or someone talks to him, Governor, you can't let us be done with this issue. Let's find out who the real Governor is here. Let's figure 09700146.doc 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 out who's in charge. And we cannot be done here without doing real pension reform. That mean… may mean next week. That may mean June, July or August, maybe a Special Session, but to go home here with an excuse on not doing TRS because we didn't do a shift because someone didn't like it is unacceptable. You need, as Governor, to take charge of this place as the Governor as the CEO, somebody who said we need to do real pension reform and get it done. Get people back together, find a happy medium, if there is one and get it done. So, Mr. Speaker, I've gone on awhile. I apologize for raising my voice. I'm… I'm… I've gone from anger in this process to frustration to wanting to give up, but I'm… and I'm dismayed that we fall back into the same old tricks that we've seen… the old trick bag that… that's full of tricks. I'm not getting something done and not addressing the real problem and it's disappointing. And it's frustrating and I should be angry and you should be angry and teachers, as much as they don't want us to do this, ought to be angry and state employees 'cause they deserve some finality. They deserve some answers as do the taxpayers. People are tired of this issue. We have good teachers; we have good state employees; we have good university employees and they've been maligned over the issue… this issue unfairly. This is purely a numbers issue. It shouldn't be about the quality of our teachers, the quality of our state workers. They're good people and we need to provide to them a stable pension system and that our taxpayers know it's stable and that it's funded properly. It's not… we can't keep doing this. We're going 09700146.doc 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 to do this in the fall. What's the excuse then? Oh, wow, we can't do it in the fall because there already… it'll be something. It'll be something; it's always something. We respectfully want to vote on this. It was interesting today that even Democrats, in newspapers around the state, talked about the craziness of the shift. We know this isn't real. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I appreciate the opportunity to speak."

"Just one observation. I find it ironic that we have been told by the Speaker that we come here to debate and have different views and have the opportunity to express ourselves but yet we don't have an opportunity on this particular view we have to debate it or to even vote on it. It seems to be a huge contradiction, Mr. Speaker, but thank you for the time."

"Mr. Speaker, pursuant to House Rule 57(a), I move to appeal the ruling of the Chair that there be a recorded vote and the discharge of Amendment #4 to Senate Bill 1673." 09700146.doc 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012

"Will this Amendment be getting out of the Rules Committee anytime soon for debate?"

"We have… we have 72 hours to end of Session. I certainly hope that the opportunity to be debated will occur here very quickly."

"I said it once, I've said it many times on the floor. Once again, total power in one person's hands, not the American way. These damn Bills that come out of here all the damn time. Come out of here at the last second and I'm not trying to figure out how to vote for my people. How ashamed of… are you should be. You should be ashamed of yourselves. I'm sick of it. Every year we give power to one person. It was not made that way in the Constitution. He was around when it was written. Now, we give it… we've passed rules that stop each one of us. Enough. I feel like somebody trying to be released from Egypt. Let my people 09700146.doc 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 go. My God, they sent me here to vote for them. They sent me here to vote for them, to argue for them, but I'm trapped. I'm trapped by Rules that have been forced down our throats. Folks, we live in a democracy, but not here, but not here. So, you go back and you tell your people, I'd like to do that, but the Speaker has so much power and so much control and each one of us do in their districts and have to go back and say that. And you can say on your side of the aisle, oh no, no, that's not the case, but yes, you do. All of us know you have to deal with it. When's it going to stop?"

"A point of privilege, Mr. Speaker."

"I can't begin to… to compare with Leader Cross or Speaker Madigan, but I came across something the other day which my father gave me when I was quite young and it might do us all good to listen to this because he wasn't an educated man, he wasn't a politician, he was just an ordinary guy. But it reads like this. It says there's an insurance policy which infallibly protects those who reason for buying is 09700146.doc 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 that they believe in a thing and its maker. The name of that kindly insurance policy is reputation. There is no higher incentive in human endeavor than the reward of a good reputation. And there's no greater responsibility than the reputation… than the responsibility which the reputation compels us all to assume. Out of the reward and out of that responsibility comes the very best of which heart and mind and soul of man are capable. And I think today my wish is simply this, that we value our reputation and we do that which is necessary to make sure that we better our reputation and not diminish it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"Thank… thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, can… can you go through that again for our… on what this Bill does?"

"So, Representative, we just passed a Bill that basically said we're going to ask people to pay their bills and if that didn't pass and we default on these bonds and we don't have money for the MAP grant, how would that affect this piece of legislation?"

"So, Representative, on my side of the aisle, passed a Bill in the last few… last week that basically asked people to pay their bills. So, if you had a… in ISAC we have people that refuse to pay the bills over many years and that bill basically would allow us to garnish their wages, if you will, to have that done. So, if this Bill does not pass and signed in to the Governor, which many on your side of the aisle did not… did not favor and we default on these bonds, what happens when there's no money to your Bill?"

"So, does this Bill have anything to do with whether people should be qualified for ISAC grants or not?"

"Would you mind taking it out of the record and maybe we can talk about adding some provisions for that into it?"

"So, the second part of this Bill, does it… can you explain what it means by having equal amount of moneys from first semester to second semester?" 09700146.doc 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012

"What are the dates by which that student will receive the money by which they will use to fund their education?"

"I'm leading to a specific question, so just… just…"

"So, if a student received that money and then they were terminated or left the university, what would happen?"

"Is there a certain way that you would retrieve the money from the person? Would you garnish their wages, maybe?"

"Oh, wonderful. Thank you for your comments."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative, I'm still trying to find out exactly what this Bill does. I've read our analysis a few times now and the ISAC stuff is not really my expertise, 09700146.doc 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 but is this saying that at some point in 2011 that there were no MAP funds, but we kept giving money out?"

"How does it cost extra money? If you're out of money, how can you give more money out?"

"Mr. Speaker, can we have some order…"

"…in here? I can't hear Representative Dunkin." 09700146.doc 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012

"Thank you, Speaker. I'm sor… Representative Dunkin, you were explaining the… the problems with keeping the enrollment date open for four to five days was a $30 million shortfall, and then you were talking about… and then I kind of lost you within the volume here."

"Not the entire thing. You were getting to the very end where you were saying that we extended it $30 million… How many more applicants applied in that narrow timeframe, four or five business days?"

"Well, how can somebody award something when we don't have the money?"

"I don't understand how that happened."

"It's an odd number, Representative, because on Saturday we debated a Bill about trying to collect $30 09700146.doc 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 million and that probably would have filled the shortfall. But thank you very much."

"Thank you, Mr…"

"I'm great."

"All right. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Okay. So, back on that same line of questioning and I pretty well sure I understand why we're doing what we're doing. You said that basically what we did we passed last year's budget, but before the dollar amount was in, they spent the mon… they spent to a level beyond what we granted. Is that correct?"

"And so, therefore, now then we had to find another 30 million to cover what the Governor spent, correct?"

"So… so, what we… what we're saying here… since we're calling people out on things… what we're saying here is that the Governor of the State of Illinois last year really moved or… or what we feel was beyond his executive powers or… I maybe would say abuse of his executive powers, to spend money that we had not appropriated."

"I do. I do. So, what we're doing here is to try to correct a problem that we never really had a problem with Governors before but now we have a problem with this Governor because he wants to do things that go over and exceed his executive power but now we need to make sure it's in law so he can see it clearly, correct?"

"I do look at it like that. And because we must pass this Bill, which we've never had to have before, we're trying to keep control on misuse of funds. Is that correct?"

"Then fine. That's why we want to do this."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"So, last year when we did MAP grants, we didn't have enough money to give to all the students who qualified. Is that correct?"

"Which is really sad. Can you tell me what would happen with this equal distribution if a student got their theoretical $2 thousand for the first semester, they flunked all their classes, reenrolled for the second semester in another set of classes, would they still get that $2 thousand?"

"If a student who is enrolled and was given the $2 thousand that you spoke of, enrolled for first semester, if they flunked every single one of their classes, enrolled 09700146.doc 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 for the second semester, would they still get that second $2 thousand?"

"For the student."

"So, we are doing no academic testing. We have highly qualified financially needing students that are not receiving MAP grants while we have financially qualified students that are flunking classes that are getting money. It's time to academically test MAP grants. Thank you."

"Thank… thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Representative Dunkin, last year when the House Higher Education Appropriation Commission passed their… committee passed their budget, was the committee aware of how much money the Governor had overspent?"

"And… and so, as a result, the budget that we passed for higher education last year didn't include a good portion of this MAP funding. And did we have to come back 09700146.doc 40  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 during Veto Session and do a supplemental appropriation to satisfy this debt?"

"To the Bill, Mr. Speaker. I want to commend the Sponsor of this Bill because I don't want this Assembly to ever have to go through what we went through last year thinking that we had passed a balanced appropriation for higher education and unbeknownst to us, the Governor is spending thousands of dollars that we are unaware of and we have to come back because these students have been promised the money and we don't want to disappoint the student. We have to come back and do a supplemental appropriation and we all know that money had to come from somewhere. And I want to applaud the Sponsor that we won't have to do this again if we can pass this Bill. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Monetary Assistance Program is something that I think we have all heard about from our constituents when this type of incident occurred and funding was reduced, but I encourage you to look at the history of what we're doing with the Monetary Assistance Program. Over the last three years, it's… well, actually longer than that… it's been held flat. And over the last three years, it's been decreased and this year it will be decreased even more. I think what occurred last year was the frustration from the Governor's Office, without consulting the committee, to extend the deadline. The ISAC group has heard 09700146.doc 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 the committee speak very clearly that this is not something the committee wants them to continue doing. What the Sponsor is doing with this Bill is codifying it so that they can't make a 'mistake' again. But I would suggest all of us need to think seriously over the summer on this program, how it needs to be changed. Representative Biss has introduced a Resolution creating a task force to look at how we appropriate monetary assisted grants, but that we all consider what is the necessary level of funding for this type of program and the impact it has upon all of our students trying to get a better education and a better job in trying to move forward with their lives. I would encourage you to support this Bill, but more importantly to think about ways that we can appropriate more money towards the Monetary Assistance Program and the real heart of what we're trying to do with this grant. Thank you."

"That was very good, Speaker. ILL."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill. As I said on… in my comments on Second Reading, this is a very good Bill brought by the Chairman of the House Higher Education Appropriations Committee. This will prevent what happened last year as me and my other colleagues have talked about where the Governor closed MAP grant applications then via a press release reopened them creating a huge unfunded liability and then blamed us for not being able to find the 09700146.doc 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 funds when the State of Illinois was broke to begin with. Ultimately, we had to settle this in Veto Session and the unfunded liability that was created at the very beginning was compounded when ISAC decided to go ahead and issue four awards in the fall semester, thereby doubling the problem in the second semester. This has been a very good year so far on the House Higher Education Appropriations Committee. I respect the Chairman in his efforts today and I support this one. And notwithstanding the comments that have been made as to quality standards, as mentioned Representative Biss has that. We're going to look at it over the summer and it does need to be looked at. How long people can stay on, what the minimum grade point averages are, et cetera, does need to be looked at. That's a separate Resolution we dealt with this summer. In the meantime, we need to pass this now to avoid what happened last year. I appreciate the Chairman's time on this in his efforts. I would urge an 'aye' vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"I object. Oh, wait. Was that the wrong time to do that? I'm sorry. Would the Sponsor yield?"

"You say that the… Leader, you say that the industry has agreed to this?"

"I think when the debate was going on the other day there was concern for a particular water park that's right here in the Springfield area that had some concerns. What would be your response to that?"

"All right. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"You know, essentially we're regulating an industry. Is that not correct?"

"And we pay for that regulation of that industry via fees that pay for the cost, correct?"

"And when we have the proper fee structure, we can actually do things to enhance the ability of that industry to work and do its job for its clients, correct?"

"So, is not one of the provisions in this Bill a provision that allows for a precertification so those who practice in the industry can get through the paperwork a lot faster?"

"Yeah. To the Bill. We have an opportunity here to revitalize the industry that inspects our pools and provide a process that the industry wants and they're going to have to pay for it. I said this in the original debate. I'm in 09700146.doc 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 97th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 146th Legislative Day 5/29/2012 a… I'm in the environmental testing laboratory business. There's only 62 labs. In order to have a certification program, my annual fee is $3800. I pay for that willingly because I know I need that certification to be able to do work in our state and even to do work out of our state I have to be a certified lab. So, I gladly pay that in order to have that service. This is no different. Pools are a public health issue all over our state and not to have them properly regulated and not to have them properly inspected is derelict on our part for not… for protecting the public health. So, I think the Lady has a good Bill. It helps the industry. It provides changes the industry is wanting. And somebody has to pay for it and the industry is going to have to step up and pay for it. Hasn't been raised in 30 years. I support it. I would urge an 'aye' vote."