Illinois House Floor Debate — March 13, 2013

"The House will be in order. Members will be in their chairs, please. We shall be led in prayer today by Reverend Martin Woulfe who is with The Abraham Unitarian Universalist in Springfield, Illinois. Reverend Woulfe is the guest of Representative Poe. Members and guests are asked to refrain from starting their laptops, turn off all cell phones and arise for the invocation and Pledge of Allegiance. Reverend Woulfe."

Speaker Lang: "We'll be led in the Pledge today by Representative Hurley." Hurley – et al: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Mr. Bost, we'll start with you."

"Thank you. Leader Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker. There are no excused Democrats to report today."

"Thank you. Mr. Clerk, take the record. There are 118 Members, all Members of the House are present today, we have a quorum. The Chair recognizes Representative Bellock."

"Please proceed."

"Mr. Clerk."

"Mr. Walsh, for what reason do you rise, Sir?"

"A point of personal privilege, Mr. Speaker."

"Please proceed."

"I'd like to take a chance to welcome Joliet's own university, University of St. Francis has a faculty member 09800028.doc 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 and three of their students down here to visit us today. And I wish to welcome them down to Springfield."

"Welcome to Springfield. We're happy you're here. Mr. Moffitt, for what reason do you rise, Sir?"

"Please proceed."

"Thank you, Mr. Moffitt. Mr. McAuliffe."

"Please proceed, Sir."

"Mr. Davidsmeyer."

"Please proceed."

"Thank you, Sir. The Chair recognizes Mr. Bost."

"And how long would you like for that caucus, Sir? Don’t… don't give me one time and show up a half hour later. Give me a time."

"So, the House…"

"The House will be in recess to the hour of 1:00."

"That ought to do for you, Sir."

Speaker Lang: "The Republicans will caucus in Room 114 immediately. The House will be in order. Members will be in their chairs. The Chair recognizes Mr. Sacia."

"Please proceed, Sir."

"Welcome to Springfield. Ladies and Gentlemen, on page 2 of the Calendar, under the Weekly Order of Business- Second Reading, there appears House Bill 1155. Mr. Clerk, please read the Bill."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Will Davis on Amendment 38. Take a deep breath first, Sir." Davis, W.: "Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Sorry, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, for the delay. Amendment #38 is an initiative that we started last year that's carrying over into this broader debate about guns. This is an Amendment that requires registration of handguns. And simply put, it 09800028.doc 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 says that all hand… handgun owners must register each handgun with the Illinois State Police including make, model within 90 days. Licensed dealers must register on behalf of buyers within 20 days of sale. Sales transfers between private parties requires the seller to assign a certificate of registration to the buyer and the buyer must then register the handgun with the Illinois State Police within 20 days. There are some exemptions from this registration requirement that apply to law enforcement, military manufacturers, firearms dealers, and there are limited exemptions, also, for nonresidents, hunters, and competitive shooters. And then, there are some penalties for failure to register your firearm within a timely manner. I'd be more than happy to answer any questions."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of the Amendment. There being no debate, those in favor of the Gentleman's Motion will vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Record yourselves, Members. Have all voted who wish? Please record yourselves. Brady, DeLuca, Fortner, Hays, Ives, Kosel, Pihos, Sandack, Sosnowski. Please take the record. On this question, there are 56 voting 'yes', 53 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. And the Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

"Mr. Sims."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Floor Amendment #39 requires mental health 09800028.doc 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 evaluations for individuals who are seeking to receive a FOID card. So, at the time of the application for the FOID card or for the renewal of a FOID card, an individual has to provide certification that they have… that they have seen and been cleared by of health… a mental health professional making sure that they are not a danger to themselves or to others. This is in direct response to a number of… a number of commonsense discussions we've had about have… making sure the individuals who are in possession of weapons in this… in this state are mentally… have sound mental health. So, this… this Amendment allows and calls for those individuals to submit to that… submit to the professional and then have provide that certification to the State Police. The Illinois State Police are only allowed to use that certification for the purposes of determining whether not that person is stable enough to have a FOID card. Mr. Speaker, I move for its adoption."

Speaker Lang: "Gentleman moves for the adoption of the Amendment. The Chair recognizes Mr. Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentleman yields."

"Representative, are there any other states that require a psychiatric evaluation for one to own a firearm?"

"There are no… currently there are no other states that require this… this screening."

"And why do you think we would need to have that?"

"Well, Illinois is forward-thinking first and foremost, but also, I believe that the Seventh Circuit was very clear 09800028.doc 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 that nothing in their ruling would require or go against the prohibition against mentally ill having firearms."

"That's correct. But don’t we have procedural safeguards right now where if one has a problem, a mental issue… a mental health issue, that that person would be barred from having a FOID card and the ability to own a firearm, correct?"

"Currently, under our current system, the program we have now is reactive. This a proactive attempt for us to ensure that those individuals who are a danger to themselves or to the general public do not obtain the FOID… a FOID card. In addition, if there is a change in their mental health upon renewal, the individual has to also have that certification given to the State Police."

"But shouldn't there be some probable cause for one to have to have this type of evaluation instead of… because with that type of argument, you could send it with everyone who's driving as well that everyone who drives a car in this state should have to have a mental evaluation."

"Representative, I will say this to you. The gentleman who was the shooter in the Oh… Aurora, Colorado shooting had seen three mental health professionals. He was never… He was legally in possession of the weapons that he had, but he was never kept from having those weapons because… because he obtained… because he did not have to submit to these kinds of agreements."

"But… but in that case, wasn’t… he didn't actually own any firearms. Weren't those firearms owned by his mom, and then he obtained those illegally?" 09800028.doc 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"No. I think you're confusing New… Connecticut with Colorado."

"Oh. I'm sorry. But let's assume… let's go back to that example."

"Sure."

"See… So, this individual met with three separate mental health professionals, correct?"

"Correct."

"And none of them said that this person was a danger to himself or society and should not hold… not… should not have a gun."

"Wha… No. I… I don't… don't know that I agree with that. I think they… each… they… there were determinations and discussions about whether or not his mental health and whether or not he was a danger to the campus at large. So, I think that's some of… some of the items that they're discussing now. But under this…"

"But no one prohibited it, though."

"…under this… under this Bill, it will require the individual to prove if he is a danger to himself or to others and to provide that certification to the State Police. It allows for the mental health professional to immediately inform the State Police if the individual is incapable of having that firearm. If he is, he does not have the mental capacity to have a firearm."

"But how does it work now? Let's assume you have someone who you… who one considers might be mentally unstable. How is that person treated in the system now?”

“The cur…” 09800028.doc 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

“Does the sheriff contact the State Police? Does a mental health provider contact the State Police?"

"Currently, there… there's no provision that would… that would preclude the individual from having the firearm. Right now, as I said before, this… we are reactive in nature. The only way that you can be denied the firearm… the Firearm Owner's Identification card is if you have been adjudicated mentally defective or involuntarily committed. So, this… under this legislation, we would… we would have that… have the individual have to prove whether or not they are a danger to themselves or others, and then if they are, they would be precluded from having it or to apply for a FOID card."

"But… but this would be anybody regardless if they have any history… prior history of mental health, correct?"

"That’s correct."

"Okay."

"As long as they are determined by the mental health professional that they are a danger to themselves or to others, they have a history of violent behavior, or…"

"I get it."

"…they cannot provide for their basic needs."

"Okay. But wouldn't it make more sense to strengthen the law that we have now with the mental health and to allow mental health providers and… and/or sheriffs before there's an adjudication…"

"Well, Representative…"

"…to do this red flag. Because right now, I think what you're asking for is very burdensome and costly and 09800028.doc 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 probably unnecessary for the vast, vast, vast majority of folks. But I think we could get to what you want by strengthening the laws as we have but not changing. But what you're really doing here is you're changing the burden of proof. You're trying to have everybody prove they're sane instead of those that people think might have a problem to prove that they don't have a problem. And I think the burden shifting here is onerous and unnecessary."

"Well, Representative…"

Speaker Lang: "Mr. Sims, before you proceed. Ladies and Gentlemen, could we please hold the noise down in the chamber. Please. We've got many Amendments to go through today. If we are continuing to talk, we won't hear, people will ask questions twice. Let's move through this as expeditiously as we can. Mr. Sims, will you respond, and Mr. Franks will you bring your remarks to a close, Sir."

"Sure."

"Mr. Sims."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, Representative, I would argue first that this is the strengthening of what our current process is. In addition, the only way we can ensure that we're going to have those screenings is to put this process in place. If we're going to make sure that we have… have this process for individuals who are or dangerous to themselves or to the public, we have… we're going to have to put some safeguards in place. And I think this… this will do it."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Amendment, then. I really appreciate my friend answering the questions. I 09800028.doc 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 understand what he's trying to do, and I appreciate it. And I think that we need to tighten up the mental health standards. I think, though, with the shift on the burden here, I think it goes too far. I think we can get to the same bottom line that you're looking for by changing some other aspects. So, I'll respectfully be voting 'no', and work with the Sponsor to create something that I think will be more palatable."

"Mr. Phelps."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentleman yields."

"Representative Sims, can you tell the… can you tell the Body how much one of these evaluations costs?"

"Well, it really depends on the professional."

"Would you agree that some of them are upwards of $1 thousand?"

"I… I wouldn't… Again, I wouldn't know that. It would depend… it depends on the professional."

"Do you, also, know how many background checks are done by… on a person each… during a year? Do you know how many background checks, Representative?"

"Representative Phelps, this is different than a background check. This just talks…"

"No, no."

"…specifically to an individual's mental health."

"Not necessarily because every… every year there are 360 background checks done on an average person that has a FOID card. With the NIC system, with the Illinois State Police, they bounce it off the criminal records index, and 09800028.doc 15  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 they, also, bounce it off the mental health admissions that DHS puts out. That's 360 background checks done in a year per person. And then, you're asking us to vote on something where we have to go to a psychiatrist and get their approval. I… I just think it's absolutely ridiculous. This is going to be upwards of a thousand dollars per person. They're trying to drive the cost up. I just urge a 'no' vote."

"Mr. Costello."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Sponsor yields."

"My concern here is we're making a constitutional right a socioeconomic situation. And I agree with Representative Phelps. I mean, whatever number you want to throw out there, you're saying you don't know what one of these evaluations would cost, but you're saying that a citizen would have to go through one of these evaluations in order to have a concealed carry permit, correct?"

"That's correct. A FOID card."

"I have… I have a huge issue with that. Also, I agree with Representative Phelps as well, the NIC system and the ISP, they do an evaluation nightly. So, at least every 24 hours, if somebody has seen a professional about a mental illness or if they’re prescribed, you know drugs, pertaining to mental illness, I believe that shows up. That's a huge concern for me. And I will not be supporting this Amendment. I encourage my colleagues to vote 'no'. Thank you."

"Representative Senger." 09800028.doc 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"The record will reflect your intentions. Mr. Sims to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Again, this is a commonsense response to what really is an attempt to be proactive in our… in our regulation of the mental health of individuals who are walking around with guns on our streets. The Seventh Circuit has made it very clear that this… that there's nothing in their decision that would prohibit an individual from having a firearm. There's nothing in their decision that prohibits the mentally ill from having a firearm that would allow… that stands in the way of that. So, what we are doing here is really allowing for some commonsense, proactive activity on behalf of the State of Illinois. So, I would urge each one of my colleagues to support this… support this Amendment because it really will keep guns out of the hands of the individuals who are not mentally capable of having them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move for its adoption."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of the Amendment. Those in favor of the Amendment will vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Please take the record. On this question, there are 37 voting 'yes', 65 noting no… voting 'no', and 6 voting 'present'. And the Amendment fails. The Chair recognizes Mr. Moffitt."

"Please proceed, Sir."

"Welcome to Springfield, Sir. Please proceed with this Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"Mr. Zalewski."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I offer Floor Amendment #40 to House Bill 1155. It simply says that for a person to… if a person knows that they are dealing with someone… living with someone who is… is prohibited from owning a firearm, they have to provide for a trigger lock upon the firearm's storage unit. I'd ask for an 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of the Amendment. There being no debate, those in favor of the Amendment will vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Please record yourselves, Members. Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, please take the record. On this question, there 09800028.doc 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 are 59 voting 'yes', 49 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. And the Amendment is adopted. Mr. Clerk."

Speaker Lang: "Representative Feigenholtz. Representative Feigenholtz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to adopt House Amendment #41 which requires each FOID applicant to disclose to the Illinois State Police whether he or she currently lives with a person who has a felony conviction, a domestic battery conviction, an order of protection, or stalking no contact order, has been diagnosed with mental illness in the past five years or adjudicated with such defect and is… or is prohibiting obtaining… and prohibits obtaining or has had a FOID card revoked. I'd be glad to…"

Speaker Lang: "The Lady moves for the adoption of the Amendment. The Chair recognizes Mr. Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes, she will."

"Representative, what's the purpose of this disclosure?"

"It's for notification to the State Police."

"Well, what will they do with it? So, let's assume you live with someone who has a felony conviction or a domestic battery conviction, so they have this information. What are they going to do with that information?"

"It's a precautionary measure, Representative Franks. It's a disclosure measure." 09800028.doc 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"But would it bar the applicant from obtaining a FOID card, if they lived with someone with one of these enumerated issues?"

"It will not."

"I'm just not sure what it will do. When you say it's precautionary, how would it be precautionary?"

"Representative, this is actually current law. Section 2, 4, 7, and 8 or… some of these provisions… I'm sorry. It's not current law, but the prohibitors are already our current law."

"Right. The prohibitors are already current law. So, this isn't giving any additional information except that you might live with someone who is prohibited. Well, what happens if you didn't know that the… let's say you're living in a house and you didn't know that one of the roommates had a felony conviction or a domestic battery conviction, would that nullify your ability to get a FOID card?"

"If they know, Representative, obviously, there's no duty to disclose. If they don't know, they don't know."

"If they don't know. But let’s… what's the penalty if they do know, and they don't tell? What happens if they don’t want to talk about their roommate's felony conviction?"

"Nondisclosure… willfully nondisclosing is a Class A misdemeanor."

"And would that prohibit the person from getting a FOID card?" 09800028.doc 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"If anything willfully is not disclosed or held… withheld, yes."

"What happens if the felony conviction, for instance, was more than 20 years old and it could be expugnable or in the process of being expunged but not yet been expunged. And you didn't want to disclose that because it could be embarrassing, it could be a spouse, for instance, and you know, just two of you live together."

"If they live together and they know this, Representative Franks, they have a duty to disclose it, no matter how long it's been."

"How do you define being a mental patient?"

"It is a dia… has a Diagnosis Code. It's a diagnosis."

"Does it… does it have to be an inpatient? Or could it be an outpatient?"

"I believe that any… that… that a diagnosis of mental illness is not discerned between in and outpatient."

"So, if you live with someone who, perhaps, has seasonal disorder because there's not enough sunlight and that's something you think would be necessary for the State Police to know?"

"I don't believe that that is a mental illness, Representative Franks. I think that's…"

"Well, that's what I'm trying to find out.”

“I think this…”

“Is depression mental illness because seasonal disorder could be seen as depression?" 09800028.doc 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"Mr. Franks, can you bring your remarks to a close after this answer, Sir?"

"Sure."

"Thank you."

"I was waiting for the answer."

"Are you… are you still asking me about whether or not seasonal disorder is…"

"Well… well, I think we…"

"I thought I answered your question. It's a no."

"Okay. Well, I'm not sure what this would actually do. I'm not sure the purpose because everyone who’s already enumerated cannot get a FOID card now and it seems that we're trying to do somehow guilt by association if you happen to live with someone who is prohibited. I'm just not sure what the State Police interests would be in having this information that they already possess. And what you're asking for them is to say, since you live them, this person, you should… they should get it again. So, I just don't know what we're trying to accomplish here."

"This is about disclosure of someone you live with."

"Well, as I said, it's a bit of a slippery slope then."

"So, if you have a gun, and you live with this person and you know any of these enumerated items, you would, if you knew, have to disclose."

"Well, it would probably easier just to say yes to everything then, and say yes everybody I live with is all of these things, so what? Again, so if you answer yes, it's not going to make any difference to the State Police. So, 09800028.doc 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 should this pass, I would encourage everyone to say yes on every one of these questions and just disclose because they're not really going to use it anyway."

"Representative Feigenholtz… Excuse me. The Chair recognizes Mr. Reis."

"Lady yields."

"It doesn't violate HIPAA because it is a law enforcement disclosure not a public disclosure."

"This is not public disclosure, Representative Reese. This is confidential disclosure to law enforcement."

"Representative Feigenholtz to close." 09800028.doc 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, if somebody who is allowed to have a FOID card is living with someone who shouldn't have an FOID card, this is an Amendment that addresses the elements of that. It is merely about disclosure. I'd appreciate an 'aye' vote."

"Those in favor of the Lady's Motion will vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Please record yourselves, Members. Please record yourselves. Please take the record. On this question, there are 41 voting 'yes', 61 voting 'no', 4 voting 'present'. And the Amendment fails. Mr. Clerk."

"Representative Acevedo."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #42 requires a person to report the loss or theft of his or her firearm within 72 hours, and a failure to do so would be a petty offense or a Class A misdemeanor for subsequent offense of your FOID card subject to revocation or seizure."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of the Amendment. The Chair recognizes Mr. Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentleman yields."

"Representative, I think this is a good idea. My only question is… is there a knowing requirement because sometimes I don't pick up my gun for a while, and I don’t… 09800028.doc 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 I wouldn't know if it was lost or stolen unless I went back to the cabinet to see if it was there."

"Yes. It's upon discovery of the lost or the stolen weapon."

"Okay. So… so, if a… if the robbery might have occurred on a… on a Sunday night or something, and I didn't check my… I wasn't going to go shooting for a couple weeks and it would… it would be upon my discovery that it was gone that the 72-hour clock would begin to toll."

"Well, sure, Representative. It's like your… your house is broken into in May, and you go on your summer-long Mexican vaca… Mexico vacation…"

"Sure."

"…like you usually do."

"Right."

"And when you come back, you can report it."

"But here's my point, though. But let's assume it got stolen, and I didn't know about it. And I didn't… I was in Mexico with you; we were marlin fishing, right. But while we're fishing, someone uses the gun and commits a crime. And then, it gets traced back to my house. I didn't know about it because I was with you fishing. I just want to make sure I'm not going to get in trouble."

"I would be your alibi then, Representative."

"I'm sorry."

"I said I would be your alibi knowing that you'd be in Mexico with me marlin fishing." 09800028.doc 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"Perfect. I… I… Now, we have another follow-up question. All right. I'll let somebody else ask that. Thank you."

"Mr. Phelps."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Amendment. I… I just want everybody to be aware. I think what we're trying to do here is go after… I hope what we're trying to do here is to go after the criminals. But this Amendment only applies to people that have a FOID card. So, if a criminal has a lost or stolen gun, we're not asking them to report because they don't have to. This only applies to people that are law- abiding gun owners that been through the background check. So, what about the bad guys? Let's not go after the good guys and that's what this Amendment does. Vote 'no'."

"Leader Acevedo to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. In an answer to the last speaker's question, it is already a criminal offense to possess a weapon without a FOID card. And Ladies and Gentlemen, be perfectly… let's be perfectly honest about this, why wouldn't you want to report if someone stole your gun or you lost it. What if it is committed in… in a crime of a bank robbery or a murder, wouldn't you want them to clear your name? And that's all we're asking. Just report it; you have 72 hours from… and remember, that's the time of discovery. I ask for an 'aye' vote."

"Those in favor of the Gentlemen's Motion will vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who 09800028.doc 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 wish? Please record yourselves. Mr. Clerk, please take the record. On this question, there are 59 voting 'yes', 50 voting 'no'. And the Amendment is adopted. The Chair recognizes Mr. Dunkin."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm trying to inquire as of… how is it that we're at Amendment #42 or 43 in this case, and we skipped over Amendment #20?"

"The Amendments that are on the floor, Sir, are the Amendments that have been released from the Rules Committee."

"Okay. So, how about if we go in numerical order, the correct way because about a week ago we left off, I believe, at 14, 15. I have Amendment #20 and somehow we jumped up to the 40s. Most people on…"

"I…"

"…this floor were waiting on Amendment #20. So, Mr. Speaker, because so many of my colleagues on this side and probably especially that side of the aisle was looking forward to Amendment #20 which requires handgun licenser… licenses to maintain insurance, a million dollars of insurance to be exact. Can we go back and hear my Amendment? This Body is anxiously awaiting Amendment #20, Mr. Speaker."

"Mr. Dunkin, I suggest you contact the chairman of the Rules Committee."

"And who might that be? Can you refresh my memory? Who might that be? Is it Barbara Flynn Currie? Is it Frank Mautino? Is it Monique Davis? Is it Mike Bost?"

"Mr. Dunkin, we're going to…" 09800028.doc 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"Can you let my Amendment go?"

"Mr. Dunkin, we're going to proceed now, Sir. Is that all right?"

"All right."

"The Chair recognizes Mr. Riley."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In all the excitement on the floor, I almost forgot what I wanted to do. I'd like to reflect that my vote on… on Amendment #39, the Sims Amendment, to 'present'."

"The record will reflect your intentions, Sir. Mr. Clerk."

"Leader Currie who is the chairman of the Rules Committee."

"Thank you. Thank you, Speaker and Members of the House. Amendment 43 deals with the cost of a FOID card; what we have to pay if we want a Firearm Owner's Identification card in the State of Illinois. The fee which averages one dollar a year was approved in 1968. I just did the cost-of-living calculator. One dollar in 1968 is worth well over $6.50 today. Amendment 43 would increase the fee by four dollars a year. Four dollars a year isn't even close to the cost of inflation. The increased money would be used in several ways. First, it would help with the mental health background check. When the State Auditor General did a report on the state Firearm Owner's Identification program, he discovered that only 3 percent of the counties were even reporting mental health data to 09800028.doc 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 the State Police. This increased fee would help solve that problem. When he looked at the operations of the State Police, he discovered that even though they were revoking a number of FOID cards, only 30 percent of the people whose cards were revoked were turning them in, and the State Police did not have the… the personnel, the wherewithal to go out and do the collection themselves. Eighty-five percent of the time during the last quarter of 2010, 85 percent of the time calls to the customer service hotline went unanswered. And the amount of overtime that is spent by the State Police trying to make the FOID card an effective system, way, way, way a lot of overtime. So, if we were to increase the fee just this little bit, just this little bit that doesn’t even keep up with inflation, we can make for a FOID card system that will catch mental health problems, will operate effectively and efficiently, won't leave applicants hanging because the State Police can't get the job done in a timely fashion. I urge your 'aye' vote."

Speaker Lang: "The Lady moves for the adoption of the Amendment. Those in favor of the Amendment will vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Please record yourselves, Members. Have all voted who wish? Please record yourselves, Members. Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, please take the record. On this question, there are 48 voting 'yes', 55 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. And the Amendment fails. Mr. Clerk."

"That Amendment is withdrawn, I believe. That Amendment is withdrawn. Mr. Clerk."

"Please hold the Bill on the Order of Second Reading. The Chair recognizes Mr. Reboletti."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, Ladies and Gentlemen. Mr. Clerk, please start with Amendment 1 on House Bill 1155. And as rapidly as you can, while Mr. Reboletti listens, go through the Amendments and give him the status."

"The Chair recognizes Mr. Acevedo."

"Mr. Speaker, I'll wait 'til after this is cleared up."

"Mr. Durkin."

Speaker Lang: "The Chair rules your request dilatory. Mr. Reboletti."

"Mr. Clerk, House Bill 1157."

"Please put this Bill on the Order of Second Reading. Read the Bill."

"Representative Cassidy on Amendment 9."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. I'd like to ask that… I’d like to ask for adoption of House Amendment 9 to House Bill 1157. This Amendment will simply require responsible and safe storage practices for firearms such as semiautomatic and military-style weapons. These are… This would only require a trigger lock or a gun safe to be used when the gun is not in the immediate possession or under the control of the owner. An unsecured firearm is far more likely to be used in an accidental shooting, suicide, or a shooting related to a theft of a weapon then for self-defense. Seventy-five percent of minor suicides… This is… this is actually a very important piece of information I want you to hear. Seventy-five percent of minor suicides involve a weapon found unsecured in the home of a parent or relative. I ask for your favorable support."

"Representative Cassidy, have you completed your comments?"

"Would you like to hear them again?"

Speaker Lang: "No. Mr. Bost has requested an immediate Republican caucus. How long will that take, Sir?"

"The House will be at ease 'til the hour of 3:00. The Republicans will caucus in Room 114. The House will be in order. The House will be in order. The Chair recognizes Mr. Reboletti."

"The question is, 'Shall the Chair be overruled?' The question is, 'Shall the Chair be overruled?' Those in favor of the Gentleman's Motion vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Mr. Clerk, please take the record. On this question, there are 65 voting 'yes', 46 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. And the Chair is sustained. The Chair recognizes Mr. Moffitt. Mr. Moffitt."

"For you, Sir, please proceed."

"The Chair recognizes Mr. Reboletti."

"Mis…"

"Mr. Reboletti."

"The board said what it said. People voted the way they voted. We're going to proceed."

"We're going to…"

"…proceed."

"We're going to proceed with House Bill 1157. Representative Cassidy had presented her Motion to adopt the Amendment. On that Motion, the Chair recognizes Mr. Cross."

"Leader…"

"Thank you. Leader Cross, we have those Motions here, and we will get to those. But we're in the middle of a Bill at the moment, so as soon as we complete this Bill we'll eventually get to these Motions."

"And they will…"

"You do not have the right, Sir, to make a Motion at any time and have it heard at any time. We're in the middle of a Bill, but we will get to the Motions."

"As we get to them."

"It will be before we adjourn today."

"I… I have no intention of giving you a time and an hour, Sir. The Chair recognizes Mr. Bost. Representative Cassidy had made a Motion. There being no debate, those in favor of the Lady's Motion to adopt the Amendment will vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Please record yourselves, Members. DeLuca, Gordon, Harris, Ives, Smith, Sosnowski, Thapedi. Please record yourselves, Members. Mr. Clerk, please take the record. On this question, there are 57 voting 'yes', 58 voting 'no', 1 09800028.doc 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 voting 'present'. And the Amendment fails. Mr. Clerk, House Bill 1156. Please read the Bill."

"Mr. Zalewski."

"Mr. Speaker, I move for the adoption of Floor Amendment #9 to House Bill 1156. It bans the possession, sale, delivery, receipt, transfer, or purchase of any magazine that has the ability to hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition. There are exemptions within the Bill for law enforcement."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of the Amendment. The Chair recognizes Mr. Bost."

"Gentleman yields."

"Ten."

"If… if the magazine is affixed to the gun, Representative, then this would not apply." 09800028.doc 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"One hundred and eighty days after the date… after the effective date of the Bill, Representative."

"So, there's a significant amount of exemptions, Representative, including law enforcement, military, correctional officers, manufacturers, if they’re allowed to sell to an exempted party, hunters, competitive shooters, and nuclear facilities. Got to… I…"

"I…"

"I have a unique knowledge of that particular aspect of it, Representative."

"It would be a Class A misdemeanor for possession of the magazine."

"I'm…"

"I'm sorry. Repeat your last."

"Oh. A second offense…"

"…is a Class IV Felony."

"Yes."

"Rep… Representative, what we would say is if they have… if the Bill were to pass and they were to be given notice that they have to turn their weapons in, they would have 180 days to turn them in. If they were found not to turn them in, it's a Class A misdemeanor."

"So, Representative, my answer to you is, a hypothetical, if the time period were 270 days, would you be supportive of the policy?"

"So, then…"

"…what does it matter…" 09800028.doc 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"So…"

"Rep…"

"Rep… Representative, I think you’re misstating what would… what would likely happen. I think if the Bill were to become law, a person found in possession of that magazine will be exposed to a Class A misdemeanor. This argument that there would all of a sudden be this aggressive, for lack of a better word, witch hunt for these magazines is a fallacy." 09800028.doc 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"What it…"

"I… Representative, I'm told I have to pull this from the record for a moment."

"Okay. I know."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, the Chair is in possession of a written Motion by Mr. Reboletti that takes precedence over all other actions for the moment on this Bill. The Chair recognizes Mr. Reboletti on his Motion."

"The Gentleman moves that the House Bill 1156 and all filed Amendments be recommitted to the House Judiciary Committee for further consideration. There being no debate, those in favor of the Gentleman's Motion to Recommit will vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Record yourselves, 09800028.doc 40  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 Members. Have all voted who wish? Please take the record. On this question, there are 47 voting 'yes', 61 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. And the Motion fails. Mr. Reis, I assume on this Amendment. Is that correct, Sir? Mr. Clerk."

"Mr. Zalewski."

"Mr. Speaker, I move for the adoption of Floor Amendment #10. It's the same as #9. There's a technical change."

"The Gentleman’s moved for the adoption of the Amendment. The Chair recognizes Mr. Bost."

"I'm sorry, Representative. Go ahead."

"Yeah. There's a…"

"There's a penalty provision that wasn't in #9 that we've added in #10."

"It's not exactly the same."

"All of the penalties you and I had a good, robust discussion on, I thought were in number… we were discussing #10. It’s…"

"I'm sure you would, Representative. But we're not bringing #9 back. I'm sorry about that."

"Okay."

"Well, Representative, what I want to be clear about what I said was what I'm told about law-abiding gun owners is that they abide by the law. If we were to pass this Bill, my…" 09800028.doc 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"Right. My assumption is…"

"I…"

"Mike… Mike, I… I understand your concerns."

"Mike. Mr. Speaker, I'm having a hard time hearing Mike."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, could we bring the noise level down in the chamber."

"Let's get through this order of business."

"Well, Mr… I mean, Representative, we've had this discussion in Judiciary, and you know, we may have to agree to disagree. What I said during our discussion about this in the committee was the following: if you're of the opinion that we should not ban assault weapons, if you're of the opinion that those weapons are to be remaining in control of the law-abiding citizens, then as a, for lack of a better word, compromise measure, then let's go after these high-capacity magazines that, frankly, are designed for holding large amounts of ammunition. And say you know what, you can keep your weapons, but at the same time, we're going to ensure safety through the use of limiting the ammunition. I understand what you’re saying, and I understand 99 percent of your constituents are law-abiding gun owners, but if you don't believe in… in banning the weapon, at least let's talk about limiting the ammunition."

"So…"

"No, I do." 09800028.doc 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"So, and Repre… Rep…"

"So, Representative, I… I was…"

"I was sent a video from the Rifle Association about this very issue, about the timing of magazines. And what I saw from that video was it takes a shorter amount of time for individuals to use shorter magazines. So, in your specific…"

"But let me finish, let me finish, Representative.”

“In your specific hypothetical, in that case, I don't see a disadvantage for the homeowner; however, what we do see is when you have these ser… spree killings and the magazines are extended, you have an excessive amount able to be released in a short amount of time. So, I'd rather give you the opportunity, in your hypothetical, to do a quicker amount of reload with shorter magazines then… and eliminate those spree killings than the other way around."

"Okay."

"Well, I… I respectfully… I respect your opinion, Representative. I believe that if we're going to have a serious discussion about these issues to deal with these high-capacity magazines is one aspect of the con… is one aspect of the conversation…"

"…that must be had. And I ask… I'd want the Bill to pass."

"No. I'm told no. Just the number."

"Was he riding in your lap, Representative. Representative Beiser's Bill."

"Representative Ives."

"Representative Williams."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill. I just wanted to point out that my seatmate, Representative Acevedo, just told me that the winner of the Sharp Shooter Award in his Police Academy class was, in fact, a women… a woman. So, maybe we don't need those har… high-capacity magazines after all."

"David Harris." Harris, D.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just an observation. You are one of the most knowledgeable parliamentarians in the Chair. I didn't hear the Gentleman withdraw Amendment 9. But just a… just by wa… an observation. A question of the Chair or a question of the Sponsor, please."

"Please proceed, Sir." Harris, D.: "Representative, if a… I understand the logic of what you're doing here. If an individual has a device, a large-capacity feeding device, a large-capacity magazine now, what is he or she supposed to do with it should this become law?" 09800028.doc 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"Representative, me and the Representative… the Gentleman from… we had a robust discussion. You would have one year, the effective date being January 1, 2014 plus 180 days, to dispose of the weapon through the law enforcement or sale out of state." Harris, D.: "And does it say that in the Amendment?"

"No." Harris, D.: "It does not say that in the Amendment?"

"No. But…" Harris, D.: "So, how… how do we…"

"But again, we're talking…" Harris, D.: "…how do we know if it doesn't say it in the Amendment that you have one year to do this?"

"Well, Representative, you would… the effective date of the Bill plus and the Bill says 180 days, so I mean, it's… it's the addition of those two time frames." Harris, D.: "Well, in effect… but the Bill doesn't become effective until when?"

"January 1, 2014." Harris, D.: "Okay. So, January 1… so, in essence, they have 180 days after that. There's a… and… and the only way they can dispose of it, or them if they're a multiple… a multiple high-capacity feeding devices, is to either turn them into the State Police or sell them out of state?"

"Correct. And it… Wait, I'm sorry, Representative. One moment. Turn them into law enforcement or sell them out of state." Harris, D.: "Well, your… your Amendment says, the language of your Bill says it is unlawful for any person within this 09800028.doc 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 state to knowingly deliver, sell, receive, transfer, purchase or possess or cause to be delivered, sold, received, transferred, or purchased a large-capacity ammunition feeding device."

"After…" Harris, D.: "It seems to…"

"…after the date, after the 180-day time frame." Harris, D.: "Okay. We'll give them 180 days, but there are thousands of these out there that law-abiding citizens have owned. And now, you're telling me that they can sell them out of state, but it seems to me that the language of your Amendment is at odds with what you just said because it says I cannot sell it or I cannot cause it to be sold."

"You would have that time frame that we just discussed to do the selling or the disposition. So, that… that's the answer to your question." Harris, D.: "Well, that may be the answer to my question, but I… and I'm…"

"You could di… you could disagree with the policy, but that's…" Harris, D.: "No."

"…the answer to your question." Harris, D.: "As a matter of fact, I may not disagree with the policy. But I am telling you what I strongly believe, and I'm a suburban guy, okay, and I'm telling you what I know just in my area, but from downstate, there are thousands of these, thousands of these. And for us to place this type of a requirement on those individuals who have them is an onerous intrusion. And as a matter of fact, I think your 09800028.doc 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 Amendment, again, is at odds with what you're asking people to do."

"So… so…" Harris, D.: "I just… I think… I think there's a real disconnect with the real world. And I would recommend a 'no' vote on the Amendment."

"Represent… And can I respond, Mr. Speaker? To… Just to clarify some, we could not grandfather in the exist… I'm told we couldn't have grandfathered in the existing magazines because these magazines don't have serial numbers on them. So, there's no way to backtrack and try to catalog them 'cause now we're treating some gun owners who have done it versus some gun owners who have… magazine owners who have. We're treating people differently under the law." Harris, D.: "And… and that may be your answer, but it… it… my response to that is prohibit the sale. Okay. Prohibit the sale so that we know that there are no more. Prohibit the importation of them so we know it's against the law to bring them into the state. I think that's easier to track than trying to turn our law-abiding citizens into criminals doing something which they have done all of their lives."

"There are still eight speakers on this Bill. Mr. Reis."

"Please proceed, Sir."

"You indicated that you wanted to ask the Sponsor a question. Is this now…"

"So, Mr. Clerk, would you answer the question about the notes on this Amendment, Sir?"

"What is your question, Sir?"

"Sir, that's… that's on your computer right in front of you. The Clerk doesn't read that to you. A question for the Sponsor?"

"Sponsor yields."

"Again, Representative, what I'm told is these… these mechanisms… magazines don't have serial numbers, so to try to grandfather them in would be practically impossible."

"And…"

"Have what, Representative?"

"Yes."

"New York."

"Yes."

"Mr. Sullivan. Hello, Sir."

"Gentleman yields."

"No. No, not within the Bill, Representative."

"That'd be a… that'd be a question of finder of fact. But I mean…"

"There's… there's no affirmative defense, but… but you’d be welcome to raise that defense."

"And… and you're talking about now, Representative, you're talking about a January 1 effective date with 180 day lag time and you're in receipt of a piece of machinery that is against the law. So, again, when you raise that defense, I would take caution because I don't know the likelihood of its success."

"And who…"

"Rep… Representative, who would… who's out there sending high-capacity magazines to people to set them up? I mean, I think we're starting to…"

"…we're starting to wander astray of the conversation here." 09800028.doc 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"Yeah. And…"

"And Representative, I'm not… I mean… Could possibly someone decide to set up a sting in… in July of 2014 and start sending high-capacity magazines to lawful gun owners?"

"I suppose it's possible. But it's…"

"If it's an accident, then it goes back to you can raise a defense."

"Well, Representative, we… if you want to have a global discussion about the criminal justice system that's fine."

"But we're talking about this Amendment."

"I will…"

"I will concede to you that if someone wishes to set up an elaborate sting in July of '14 whereby they decide to send high-capacity magazines to people in an effort to entrap them, then yes, they would have to hire a lawyer and go into court."

"That would be the result of adopting this policy."

"Regardless."

"Representative, we…"

"So, if… if I did put affirmative defenses in this Bill, would you support it?"

"Mr. Smiddy."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentleman yields." 09800028.doc 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"I agree with the Sponsor that this is a very serious issue that we need to talk about. The one issue that we haven’t talked about a lot is when we ban these high magazines, we're also taking away jobs in the State of Illinois. We have a billion dollar industry; 250 million of that comes from my district. And there's a two-year waiting period for these types of weapons to be shipped out with these high-capacity magazines. Now, are we to tell these folks that they're not going to be able to get the weapons that they've actually applied for and are now on a two-year wait for? They're individuals, they live in the State of Illinois, and it's a billion dollar industry. Are we to tell them that they're now not going to be able to get these weapons?"

"Representative, I would say a couple of things. There's an exemption in there for manufacturers to sell to the exempted party or out of state. It's my understanding, from testimony in Judiciary, a large portion of this customer base we're talking about is exempted parties. So, it's the…"

"I'm talking about the individuals not the exempted parties. We have two to four thousand of these weapons every month leaving my district to Illinoisans, individuals, not exempted parties."

"Representative, I’d remind you, we're talking about the magazines not the weapons."

"And I am telling you that they have ordered with these types of magazines not the exempt… not the 10-round magazines; these magazines that are already in production. 09800028.doc 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 So, what am I to tell those folks. We're going to be loovy…”

“I… I…”

“…losing taxes. These businesses are going to say, we're going to get exempted; we can't sell to these two to four thousand people a month that are individuals that are not exempted. What are we going to tell them? They are going to move their business where they can sell to the individuals in the state not just the folks that are exempted."

"I would tell them, Representative, that we… we did a… we were charged with passing a comprehensive Bill in response to… to the Seventh Circuit's opinion and this is a judgment we made. We did our best to exempt out, to not… to ensure that they could continue a number of these sales, but not all of them could be accommodated."

"But what we’re effectively doing is killing jobs in an economy that cannot be killed by this legislation. I would urge my colleagues to please vote against this because it's going to affect my district personally, over two thousand jobs. Because if we have this legislation go through, I will guarantee you my people in my district are going to leave."

"Mr. Sacia."

"Sponsor yields."

"Correct, Representative."

"Mr. Reboletti."

"Mr. Zalewski yields."

"Yes."

"Representative…"

"Representative…"

"Is your question, why I chose to file a Floor Amendment on this particular Bill?"

"On this particular Bill, we had several robust discussions in Judiciary Committee about this issue. As a matter of fact, you were in the one where that came up… on this very issue came up. So, we've had a Judiciary Committee hearing on this particular… on this particular Amendment."

"Because this Bill, Representative, it's my prerogative how I choose to present my Bills."

"I don't know the answer to that question, Representative."

"So, Representative, if there were a grandfather Amendment in the Bill, in the Amendment that allowed for us to go back, it would garner the support of those who are currently opposed?"

"Representative, if we have more special orders I can certainly… I can certainly revisit that with… with the staff and see if that's a possibility. I'd love to have your support on this Bill."

"So, if it means getting you to support this Bill… this Amendment, I certainly can be happy to run it up the 09800028.doc 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 flag pole, but we're dealing with the Amendment as it’s written today."

"Rep… Representative, if I… if I thought that it would garner more than… I… as much as I would appreciate your vote, I'm inclined not to pull it out of the record for the mere possibility of garnering votes. From what I've heard today, from the Body in opposition to this Bill, there's significant opposition no matter what I'd do. So, based on that, I'm not inclined to pull the Bill."

"I don't… I don't know… I don't know it's going to be a failure. I know there's some people out… opposed to the Bill."

"Similar states have done this types of legislation, and they haven't been subject to taking suit… lawsuits."

"One moment, Representative."

"Are you talking about a weapons ban or the magazine ban?"

"So, New York has a capa… a magazine ban, and it's limited to 7 rounds; our Amendment has 10, Representative."

"I… I don't know that… answer to that question immediately. We're looking for you, Representative. I'm told California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maryland, and New Jersey."

"I'm sorry. What'd you say, Representative?"

"Handful of states is accurate."

"Yes."

"Mr. Brauer."

"Sponsor yields."

"This doesn't have to do anything with assault weapons, Representative."

"Representative, the Amendment its bans capac… magazines with capacities of an excess of 10… 10 rounds."

"You want me to describe the weapon?"

"I… This isn't a definitional issue, Representative. It's… it's a Bill that would not allow for the possession of a cap… a high-capacity magazine."

"I would refer you to the definition within the Bill of what a high-capacity magazine is."

"A magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device that has a capacity of or that can be readily restored or converted to accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition."

"It's… it's not because, again, we're talking about the magazines."

"No."

"No."

"I don't know, Representative."

"I don't know, Representative."

"Mr. Kay."

"Sponsor yields."

"No."

"No."

"No, Sir." 09800028.doc 71  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"Representative, I don't accept the premise of the question. I don't know that this has anything to do with a tyrannical form of government. This is… It's a public safety measure."

"Rep… Representative, I think… I think you can… you can… if we're to accept the premise of your question that that were to occur, which I don't, with fewer than 10-round clips, you would be able to adequately defend yourself and the… in the compelling interests of… of protecting the public safety versus that hypothetical. I don't know… I just… It's my view."

"With fewer than 10-round clips."

"With… with adequate clips that don't exceed 10 rounds."

"Mr. Phelps." 09800028.doc 73  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Amendment. And I want everybody to pay close attention, here, because I don't think it's the Sponsor's intent on what he read a while ago. Page 1 line 12: a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device that has the capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition. Now that, you say awhile ago, is… you're only going after magazine, but that is our hunting guns. That's our semi-automatic shotgun, that's our pump- action shotgun because they can accept these magazine extensions. So, more or less, what this Amendment does, whether it's your intent or not, is this bans every hunting gun out there. And I don't think you want to hunt the… hurt the hunter, because I know you and I have talked about this, but that's what the Amendment does. And I just wish you would pull this out of the record, so we could try to work on that with Representative Reboletti because I don't… don't know why we want to hurt the rights of our hunters; and that's exactly what it's going to do. So, to… to the Amendment. Just… We need to vote 'no'. Everybody says they… they always care about the hunter. Well, here's your chance to prove it. Vote 'no'."

"Representative Roth."

"Mr. Reis."

"Representative Cassidy."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A couple of the earlier speakers made reference to Chicago's gun problem and to the little baby that I've not been able to stop thinking of for the last two days who lost her life. A six-month-old baby was shot. And we've heard it said and we hear it implied that none of the people who… who are shooting those guns bought those guns legally. And that may be true, but someone did. And we aren't getting to that problem. We voted down lost and stolen here, today. We're refusing to take the steps that are going to stop the flow of weapons into our community. We learned last summer that the ma… 09800028.doc 75  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 that a huge number of the guns that are seized in cri… in the commission of crimes in Chicago are purchased at one gun shop in the suburbs of Chicago. So, let's get serious. Let's take advantage of some of these reasonable steps we can take. Let's get serious about lost and stolen. Let's stop the flow of guns into our neighborhoods and stop the violence. Vote 'yes', please."

"Mr. DeLuca."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Gentleman yields."

"First, Representative, I know that Representative Phelps just spoke to the Bill, but he did bring up a pretty important concern. I don't know if you want to respond to that or…"

"I'm happy to. It’s…"

"…say something about that."

"…it's the same response I have. I'm happy to go back if we have another special order and discuss the exemptions, but I haven't heard anything today amongst the talk of blood in the streets and body bags that leads me to believe I should change this Bill one bit. To be honest with you, Representative. I mean, the rhetoric being used here to discuss this issue, when we constantly are reminded to be serious on the other side of the aisle, and we're talking about body bags. So, Representative, to your question, I'm not inclined to change the Bill one bit."

"Okay."

"And I know that's not directed… it's not directed to you, Representative. I apologize." 09800028.doc 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"Well, I think we all take what Representative Phelps has to say about these Bills seriously. And apparently you two have spoke about huntering, you know, not going after the types of guns that are used in hunting. And it sounded pretty clear to me, by what he said, that this does. So, my question was I see there's an exemption here for law enforcement. I see there's an exemption here for law enforcement."

"Yes."

"Does that include private security?"

"Yes."

"So, a private security officer would be able to have a magazine of more than 10 rounds?"

"It's my understanding, Representative."

"So, an elected official, a politician that has hired security would be able to be… have security around them with a capacity of more than 10 rounds?"

"They would have to get the DF… my understanding is that they'd have to get licensure from the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation for security agents based on the type of security they provide."

"I ask that because I recently had a visit by an elected official… pretty big elected official out in the area of my district. And when I was leaving, and saw the security guard out in the hallway, I just went over and said, you know, just asked if, hey, you have a side arm on you? Yes, I do. What do you have? A Beretta with a 17-round clip. A Beretta with a 17-round clip. And this was a security officer paid for by the taxpayers securing one 09800028.doc 77  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 elected official. And from the way I read this, I wouldn't be able to secure myself with a round of more than 10 rounds, but a politician that has a hired security, paid for by the taxpayer, would. I just wondered what your thoughts were on that, and if you would be willing to address that in here."

"I think the law makes recognitions that certain individuals are able to have a different treatment under the law than other individuals, if they have a given amount of training. Based on that, I would suggest that a person who's had the training that you seem to… your hypothetical seems to… or not hypothetical, your situation seems to suggest, leads me to believe, that in that situation they're trained to handle that high-capacity magazine."

"Okay. Thank you."

"Mr. Durkin."

"Yes."

"Yes."

"I don't know the answer to that. I believe so."

"Ye… Yes."

"'Cause, Representative, don't we want the police to have an advantage over those who don’t have access to high- capacity magazines?"

"Any… anywhere."

"So, you don't…"

"Should they be allowed?"

"I… I think I was asked two different questions. If your quest… is your question are they allowed? One moment, 09800028.doc 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 Rep… They are. Should they be allowed? If you believe that… if you believe that they have ac… they have the training necessary to… I'll put it this way. I believe that it's important for police officers to have advantage over those who don’t have access to these high-capacity magazines. I think regardless of whether they're on duty or off duty. If you start making judgments about whether an off duty police is off duty at home or on his way to 7-Eleven, I think that's a whole different discussion."

"Excuse me, Representative?"

"They're correctional officers."

"Representative, if you feel like wardens shouldn't be included in the Bill, I don’t… I can say that we'd be happy to revisit that later."

"I think… I think that's just another term for a correctional officer, Representative." 09800028.doc 80  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"They're allowed. They're not covered by the restriction. Yes."

"Representative, if we were to revisit that would that make you vote for the Bill? I mean, we're nitpicking over the… the exemptions, and that's fine, if I felt…"

"So, if… my question to you is, if… if the Bill… if the Bill… if the exemption were narrower, would you support the Bill?"

"Okay."

"Rep… Representative, my… I'm sorry, my attorney was telling me something. Repeat your last question." 09800028.doc 81  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"Than… thank you, Representative. I'll take that under advisement."

"I… I am not inclined to take the Bill out of the record, Representative. I'm inclined to keep working on the Bill with you guys."

"What Section are you referring to?" 09800028.doc 82  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"And your question is, what is a tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm?"

"My… my understanding is it modifies a .22 caliber rimfire ammunition. It's a ma… It's exempting… One more second, Representative. Your… your question, I'm not trying to be difficult, your question is, what is a tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm?"

"So, I'm told in a .22 caliber rimfire situation, the bullet goes off the rim… the primer is on the rim rather than the center of the bullet.”

“So, it has less… which reduces the force which causes less damage."

"No."

"I don't think he has either, Representative." 09800028.doc 83  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"I… I rely on him extensively for these."

"Yeah… yes."

"No… no, Representative."

"Mr. Rosenthal."

"Gentleman yields."

"Yeah. I… the hypothetical the previous speaker gave, Representative, I… he could have been an off duty police 09800028.doc 84  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 officer. I… My understanding was he would have… if the exemption applies to certain individuals who are exercising security functions in a limited role."

"None."

"I… I can't… Unless they have a turn-in program, I don't… I don't know that… I don't know what the law enforcement community will handle… how they'll handle that."

"They can sell the weapon… or their magazine."

"I understand, Representative."

"I think given the choice between turning in assault that the weapon and turning in the magazine and giving them a year to do so, is it fair, probably in your mind, no. I… 09800028.doc 85  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 I think that… if you think it's unfair you should vote 'no' on the Amendment."

"I disagree, Representative."

"Mr. Sandack."

"Mr. Reboletti."

"Sponsor, again, yields."

"Representative, I think I misspoke. I think the exemption for private security comp… companies is limited to subsection 5."

"What… I think I… I misrepresented what one of the prev… I think I misans… I didn't answer correctly what one of the previous an… questioners asked me."

"Yes." 09800028.doc 86  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"I don't know, Representative, but it'll stop the flow within Illinois."

"No."

"Representative, again, I've heard you and the previous, well one of the second before previous questioners tell me they'd be open to an Amend… to an Amendment. That's… to me, that's not enough to pull a Bill from the record."

"I don't know that it would take ten minutes to narrow down what we're trying to tighten up."

"I… Representative, I'm just not inclined to pull the Bill from the record."

"I'm sorry, but the answer is no, Representative."

"Mr. Costello."

"Mr. Speaker, with respect to the comments Representative Phelps made earlier about this impacting hunting rifles and hunting weapons, I would like to ask for a verification of this vote."

"Your request is acknowledged. Leader Acevedo." 09800028.doc 88  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Bill. There was some questions brought up as far as a police officer, and… and I'm going to an… try to answer them as best as possible. First of all, a police officer weapon of duty of choice is 10 or more rounds mandatory according to the police department that I currently belong to. Now, when a police officer, who is off duty, takes his weapon home, that's his duty weapon. So, he is obligated to have his weapon and make it safe and secure in his own home. Now, granted, and you have to understand it's a very important point that a police officer is a policeman or a policewoman 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There was an incident where a police officer went into a grocery store, and there was a bank robbery occurring. She chose not to respond to that emergency situation, and she was penalized for it. Now, granted, if you don't have your weapon on you, you don't… you don't want to… you don't want to pretend you could pull out a badge and you don't have your weapon on you, of course you don't want them to harm anyone around you. But the point is, a police officer, I don't necessarily think we're talking about taking home an assault weapon because I believe some law enforcement agencies provide that weapon and you secure it before you leave. And if you do, you have… and if you take it home, you have to have it secured and locked up at all times. The weapons that we're talking about are duty weapons. Now, there was a point that another Representative brought up as far as private security. And I'm going to tell you, yeah, I used to have the… the extended magazines. And yes, one of the points was a 09800028.doc 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 nuclear facility were able to carry ex… extended magazines. Now, we don't know the situation where that individual who was guarding that elected official, was he an off-duty police officer? Was he a private security firm? A lot of times you have to go… to get your TAN card you have to have and go through the proper training to carry a weapon. And if… and if you do that, you're able to carry a weapon while you're on duty. Two hours before, two hours after, and that's to go home. So, in a situation where somebody is guarding an elected official, a lot of security firms, for their own protection, hire off-duty law enforcement agent… agencies. Whether it'd be police officers, whether it'd be Cook County Sheriff, whether it'd be parole officers, they want to make sure these indo… individuals are trained for their own purposes. So, that's one reason why these individuals who are involved in law enforcement are able to take the weapons home with a high-capacity ammunition clip. Yeah. I, myself, as a Chicago Police officer carry a 9mm… 9mm Smith & Wesson with 15 rounds and one in the chamber. But I will tell you this, if you look at some of the… the scenarios that have been on World News. I'll give you one example look at the bank robbery that happened in California where the extended clip that the individuals had, where the officers were out gunned. Law enforcement should always be exempt when we want to put the safety of our communities, the safety of our citizens first and I think that's first and foremost. And I think this is what we're only trying to do, and that's why we're… and I respect… I respect every one of you who are standing up for 09800028.doc 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 your districts. I respect the fact that you believe in… in guarding the Second Amendment, the rights of your constituents, but there's also ways that… that we have to help law enforcement be different from the average citizen, so they can protect the citizens who are not able to buy a weapon of choice. Thank you."

"Mr. Moffitt. Mr. Moffitt's not at his chair. Representative Wheeler. We'll come back to you, Mr. Moffitt. Go ahead."

"Mr. Kay."

"Gentleman yields."

"At any given time?"

"I… Yes, Representative."

"I'm told by active-duty police officer the answer is yes."

"Rep… Representative, would you vote for this Amendment if it were amended?"

"Would… would you vote for this Amendment if it were amended in the way you suggest?"

"I… I don't think this infringes on the Second Amendment."

"I don't, Representative."

"Again, I would point you to the video that I was told to watch about this issue. A shorter magazine allows for a quicker pace, so that rebuts your point."

"Why do we need to match magazine for magazine? Why is that necessary? If you're a good sh… Why if you're… if you're protecting your home, why do you need to go pound for pound with the intruder if… if the evidence, which I was shown, shows that it's quicker to…"

"…reload the clip."

"Maybe I misunderstood the… the point of the exercise, Representative."

"Mr. Moffitt."

"I have an announcement. Mr. Zalewski to close." 09800028.doc 94  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"So, I… I want to recap our debate here. We've had a really robust discussion of the issues at hand. There's been some points that have been made that I want to rebut, specifically, and I waited 'til the end to do it. To the extent, we have geographical differences in this state. And we have folks that I… I hope nothing I've said today has come across as an attack on those who… those believers in the Second Amendment. I… I really do wish to craft a comprehensive, bipartisan Bill that will pass constitutional muster. I heard a lot of rhetoric that we're… we're gun grabbers in Chicago and that this won't solve the issues in Chicago and that Chicago is the problem and there’s a divide. That's not the intent here and it's never been my intent to treat anybody in anyone else's district with any disrespect. My simple belief is this, if there's a view that you cannot ban assault weapons, which some have suggested, then the next most logical thing to do to avoid those instances where a spree killer unloads a significant amount of ammunition in a short amount of time, is to deal with high-capacity magazine. I know there's been suggestions about an Amendment. I'm more than willing to work with everybody, the Gentleman from Elmhurst, the Gentleman from Western Springs, to come to some sort of agreement here. I didn't pull the Bill out of the record today simply because I didn't think a lot of the opposition would ever be appeased. I know those individuals could work with me on this particular Bill. To the… to any other concerns about exemptions and security agents, we'll do our best going forward to accommodate those concerns. But to 09800028.doc 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 this specific Amendment, if you can't vote for an assault weapons ban, if you think that that is a bridge too far, then I would ask you to give serious consideration to… to this particular piece of… this particular Amendment and support its adoption. I'd ask for your 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of the Amendment. Those in favor will vote 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The voting is open. Please vote your own switches. There's been a request for a verification. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Please record yourselves, Members. DeLuca, Franks, Reis, Thapedi. Please record yourselves. Mr. Clerk, please take the record. On this question, there are 57 voting 'yes', 59 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. And the Amendment fails. The Chair recognizes Mr. Acevedo."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise on a point of per… personal privilege."

"Please state your point, Sir."

"At 2:10… 2:12 today in Rome was a historical day for anyone who is a Latino, a Latin American, but more importantly for all Catholics. You know, right before there was a caucus called I was going to be… talk about this individual who teaches and preaches about peace, love, and unity. And before the tempers started flaring and the blood pressure started rising, I wanted to bring that up that, you know, we should reflect and really learn and think about what he… what this individual preaches… preaches. This is the first Latin American from… a pope from a Latin American from… he was a cardinal Argentina and the first 09800028.doc 96  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 pope from the Americas. So, we, as Catholics, are very proud to say that we have announced a brand new pope, Pope Francis I. Thank you so much."

"Mr. Ford."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity. A point of personal privilege."

"Please state your point, Sir."

"Mr. Speaker, I know we had contentious debates today about the Amendments, but during the debates, a young girl name was used during the debate, named Jonylah Watkins. And it was pretty unfortunate that we would use her name in a contentious debate and not pay respect to the six-year-old girl that died in Chicago. So, I would like for the whole Body to rise for a moment of silence for the Watkins family, six-month-old girl."

"Please rise, Members."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the Body."

Speaker Lang: "Thank you, Mr. Ford. The Chair recognizes Representative Williams."

"Thank you, Mr. Chair. For purposes of an announcement."

"Please proceed."

"I wanted to let the Members know that the Governor is hosting a breakfast tomorrow morning for members of the Green Caucus from 7:30 a.m. to 8:30 a.m. in his ceremonial office. You'll get the opportunity to meet directors and liaisons from the EPA, DNR, ICC, and other agencies. So, hope to see you there. Thank you."

"Representative Kelly Burke." 09800028.doc 97  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 Burke, K.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A point of personal privilege."

"Please proceed." Burke, K.: "In the gallery, back there, we have a group from the John Marshall Law School, the legislative drafting class led by their instructor who is a former Democratic House staffer, Kevin Hull. So, can we welcome them to the Capitol?"

"Welcome to Springfield. The Chair recognizes Mr. Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A point of personal privilege."

"Please proceed. Is your prop girl ready?"

"Yeah. I think so."

"All right."

"Mr. Acevedo, thank you for pointing out the new Pope from Latin America. I think that's tremendous. When you think about that 1.2 billion Catholics from around the world came together in two days were able to make a decision that will affect so many people. And here we are in the General Assembly of years, and we can't get anything done. Now, 13 days ago we took to the floor, and we proposed a Committee of the Whole to address our state's mess… massive pension crisis, and we're not any closer to solving that issue today. Now, we called, some of us, for a suspension of all other business before the General Assembly until we address the underfunding of our pension system, and I believe that many of us, in this chamber, agree. So, again, I respectfully ask that Governor Quinn 09800028.doc 98  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 call the order of Special Session of the Legislature dealing solely with the pension issue. Again, we envision a Committee of the Whole where we bring constitutional experts, actuaries, and stakeholders to hammer out a deal that passes constitutional muster and ensures the long-term solvency of our pension trust funds. Now, we can address all our other business including the gun issues after this most pressing issue is done. Now, since I rose yesterday to discuss this issue, the state has accrued another $17 million in debt to finance a pension system that is unsustainable. Now, in the Governor's budget proposal, he proposed cutting $6.197 million from the Department of Children and Family Services budget for adoption and guardianship programs. Now, for those Members, myself included, who believe that every possible resource should be expended to encourage adoption, this should be especially shocking. Now, the budget… the Governor's budget, also, called for cutting almost $7.7 million to the Department of Human Services' mental health permanent supportive housing program, and nearly $3 million to public safety enforcement at the Department of State Police. Now, I did not single out these cuts of these programs at random. I chose to highlight them together because they're combined savings to the state are $16.86 million. In other words, the cuts that I just highlighted to these vital programs represent a savings to the state of less than one day of inaction on the pension fund. Now, we can preserve those services for our constituents if we act. In the 13 days, since I proposed the Special Session, we have now 09800028.doc 99  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 accumulated $221 million in debt, $17 million, more than yesterday, and every day we're accumulating another $17 million every day. Again, I respectfully urge Governor Quinn to lead on this. Again, drawing a cartoon snake is not Leadership. Throwing your hands up in the air saying I can't do anything about it is not Leadership. The elephant in the room is our pension system. The Governor acknowledged that in his budget address, but inexplicably still refuses to act. He must call a Special Session immediately that's focused solely on pension reform. We must fix this pension issue now; nothing else matters, nothing. I ask you to join me in this request."

"Mr. Bost."

"The Chair recognizes Mr. Reboletti. Is your light on regarding your Motions, Sir?"

"Please proceed."

Speaker Lang: "Well, let's proceed if we might first, Mr. Reboletti, with your Motion regarding House Bill 1925."

"Mr. Reboletti, a Motion to Discharge the Rules Committee requires a unanimous vote. The Chair recognizes Representative Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker. I object to the Motion." 09800028.doc 101  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

Speaker Lang: "The Lady objects to the Motion. The Motion fails. What about your Motion on House Bill 1978, Sir?"

Speaker Lang: "Sir, your Motion’s out of order. The Rules require unanimous consent."

"Representative Currie…"

Speaker Lang: "Excuse me, Sir. Representative Currie has objected, and therefore, you do not have unanimous consent. Shall we move on to House Bill 1978, Sir?"

"Mr. Reboletti, a Motion to Discharge the Rules Committee requires unanimous consent. The Chair recognizes Leader Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker. I object."

"The Lady objects. You do not have unanimous consent, and your Motion fails. Leader Cross."

"Representative Flowers."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I appreciate the Gentleman from the other side. I really appreciate his remarks. But I want to remind the Gentleman that none of my constituents sent me here as part of the agenda to fix a pension. We didn't create the problem that's not on our agenda. As far as guns are concerned, none of my constituents sent me here only to deal with guns and pensions. There are jobs that needs to 09800028.doc 106  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 be addressed. There are education issues that needs to be addressed. There are lots of things that needs to be addressed. There's lots of Bills that I have tried to pass on this side of the aisle that has been shot down by your side of the aisle as well as mine. I am sick and tired of the mothers and the families in my community crying on TV every night begging please save our children, save our homes, save our jobs. And there has been deaf ears every which way I turn as if the south side and the west side of the City of Chicago do not exist; we do exist. We are human beings. We want to be respected. We want to be protected. We want to educate our children. None of you want anything no better for yours than I want for mine, but your agenda is not my agenda. Until such time, you address… ask me what is it that I want in my community and stop dictating to me what you think I should have. We need to work together. My agenda is not pensions. My agenda is not guns. Let us put education back into the schools, fully fund. Let us stop putting people in jail for crimes that should have been probationable. Let us create jobs for the State of Illinois. Let's be different. Let's stop doing the same thing over and over and over again. It's not only about police officers; it's about our future. It's about the children of the State of Illinois. You hear about the ones in the City of Chicago, but do you hear about the ones in your area? They're being raped; they're being robbed of their youth and their… their education as well. Your areas are no better than mine. You're suffering the same… the same plight. The difference is this is the City of Chicago. 09800028.doc 107  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013 We're a little darker, we’re a little browner, we're a little poorer, but guess what, we're human, and I'd be damned; I will go down fighting for what I believe in. And I believe in my children, I believe in education; and I'm going to make sure that I stay down here to see things the way that I think my community should be. I want mine to be the same way. I want my kids to go to the park just like yours for free. I want to feel free not to be on home confinement. I want to feel free to walk down my streets. I pay taxes; why is it that I can't feel free to walk down the streets? Why is it that my children cannot play? Why is it they can… we can't have gym and exercise like your kids? Tell me why? Our children are human as well. Don't have no pity party for me; get off my back, help me to raise up my community that supports your community. Stop making poor people poorer, so you can make rich people rich. Get off my back. Thank you."

"Leader Cross."

"Mr. Reboletti, you have a Motion in Writing relative to House Bill 3009."

Speaker Lang: "To be sure, you filed a written Motion to Discharge Judiciary on both House Bill 3009 and House Bill 3217."

"You're withdrawing these Motions, Sir?"

"Mr. Clerk, Agreed Resolutions."

"Leader Currie moves for the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. Those in favor say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. And the Agreed Resolutions are adopted. Committee announcements. Members, please listen to the committee announcements. The 1:30 meetings are not going to meet at 1:30. So, please… please listen to the committee announcements."

"Mr. Reis."

"Please proceed, Sir."

"Thank you, Sir. Mr. Dunkin." 09800028.doc 110  STATE OF ILLINOIS 98th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 28th Legislative Day 3/13/2013

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Black Caucus will meet in Room 115 at 6:30 this evening. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Dunkin. And now, Leader Currie moves, allowing perfunctory time for the Clerk, that the House stand adjourned 'til Thursday, March 14 at the hour of 12 noon. Those in favor say 'yes'; opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Motion carries. And the House does stand adjourned 'til Thursday, March 14 at the hour of 12 noon."