Illinois House Floor Debate — May 3, 2016

"The House shall come to order. We shall be led in prayer today by Reverend Patrick E. McGrath who is the President of Loyola Academy in Wilmette, Illinois. Reverend McGrath is the guest of Representative Martwick. Members and guests are asked to refrain from starting their laptops, turn off all cell phones and rise for the invocation and Pledge of Allegiance."

"We shall be led in the Pledge of Allegiance today by Representative Flowers."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Representative Brown."

"Leader Currie."

"Thank you, Speaker. Please let the record reflect the excused absences of Representatives Monique Davis and Jones."

Speaker Turner: "With 115 Members present, a quorum is established. Mr. Clerk."

"Representative Jimenez, for what reason do you rise?"

"Please proceed, Representative."

"Thank you and welcome to your Capitol."

"Thank you. And thank you, Representative Poe. Representative Ammons, for what reason do you rise?"

"Point of personal privilege."

"Please proceed, Representative."

"It is my pleasure to share with the Members of this great Assembly, the 75th anniversary of SERS and SUAA, which is the State University Retirement System, and our new attends will celebrate their 75th year of service for the State of Illinois today between 5 and 7. We'd love for you all to come over and wish them another 75 years. We want to thank SERS for their service."

"Thank you, Representative. Mr. Clerk, House Resolution 1099. Representative Martwick."

"Representative Martwick."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, if I could have your attention for just a brief moment. In… in 1980, I had a very distinct privilege and honor in one of the great moments of my life when I was accepted and 09900124.docx 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016 enrolled at Loyola Academy High School. In 1984, I graduated to go on to further Jesuit education. Loyola Academy is not just one of the finest academic institutions in our state and in our country, but the Jesuit tradition of service and integrity and leadership and the principles that they instill in the young men and women that attend that fine institution is something that I take great pride in. But today, we bring down a number of the members of the Loyola Academy football team which accomplished a tremendous feat this year, not just in winning the Class 8A State Championship but in going undefeated from the beginning to the end of their season. A really impressive feat. So would you please join me in welcoming some of the players that have joined us today. We have Sam… Badovinac… Sam Badovinac, sorry Sam, Bobby Desherow, Frank Doherty, Eric Eshoo, Ben LeRoy, John Shannon, Robby Sullivan, and Patrick Tata. Please give them a warm Springfield welcome and join me in congratulating them on their class A State Football Championship."

"Thank you, Representative, and congratulations, guys. Members, on page 6 of the Calendar we have Constitutional Amendments on Second Reading. House Joint Resolution Constitutional Amendment 58. Mr. Clerk, please read the Bill… Read the Res…"

"Mr. Clerk, please move this to the Order of Third Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Resolution."

"Representative Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know, just a few months ago we had the distinct honor of having our former colleague and now our President, Barrack Obama, come to this General Assembly and address this chamber. And at that time, you… you may recall just a few short months ago, he spoke of creating 09900124.docx 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016 a new politics. One in which entrenched partisan and economic interests would be replaced by a system in which the people have more of a say in the direction that their government takes. And one of his specific proposals was to take the power of drawing Legislative Districts out of the hands of politicians who have every reason to gain the system for their own benefit. We come before you today with a proposal that will address that. HJRCA 58 would allow the voters of Illinois to decide to if they want to completely remove the Legislature and the Governor from the redistricting process. The people of Illinois have been left out of the process and they need to be included. That’s why we introduced this Constitutional Amendment, so that the voters could have the chance to make this important decision for themselves. Now, if they choose to take that step, an independent commission made up of people who are not elected officials, they are not lobbyists, they are not state employees or anyone else who might have a potential conflict of interest, or anyone who can gain financially or politically from the drawing of these boundaries. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and the highest ranking Justice of the opposite Party will appoint an eight-member independent commission. And the members of the commission will accurately represent the racial and geographic makeup of Illinois. And if the commission is unable to approve a map, the two Justices must then appoint a ninth Member to the commission to finalize the map. And we decided to go with the Supreme Court because all the maps ultimately end up there anyway, so why not just start there. The 09900124.docx 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016 commission will take in to account factors such as racial and ethnic makeup, electoral competitiveness, and geographic integrity. And the commissioners must reflect the ethnic, gender, and racial demographics of Illinois. And there must be at least one commission from each… commissioner from each Judicial district. The appointed panel must hold 15 public hearings throughout the state before adopting a plan. And the commission must send out public notice seven days in advance that a meeting is going to be taking place. And I want to make the reasons as to why this Body should vote in favor of this Constitutional Amendment crystal clear. Both Parties agree that we need structural reform in Illinois in order to move our state forward. Now, we may not agree on all the structural reforms that have been proposed by either side of the aisle, but this is one such reform that defies partisan barriers. Adopting this reform will allow the people to decide if they want to have more control over the government, and I believe that's exactly what they want and they deserve the chance to have it. Now, it's easy to forget that government at all levels belongs to the people and not to the entrenched political players and special interest. By voting for this Amendment, we can send a powerful message to the people of Illinois that we recognize this and it is still their government and that they are entitled to a better system that accurately reflects their reality and not ours. This Body will show the people that we serve that we are not limited by the desire for power and influence, but that we are still a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. 09900124.docx 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016 Now, I realize that what we're asking here is not a small thing. We're asking you to give up an enormous power to an uncertain future. But our reason for being in the General Assembly is not simply just to work the system to better our chances for reelection. It must be beyond our own personal desires and be about serving our people, our constituents in an honorable way. By changing the map-making process in Illinois to an independent system, we can create a better and more honorable politics. Now, I'd like to thank the following organizations for their advocacy on this issue: Common Cause of Illinois, the Illinois Campaign for Political Reform, the Illinois Public Institute Research Group, the Illinois Chamber of Commerce, and the Small Business Advocacy Group. Now, the work done by other groups on this issue is laudable, and I have taken what I believe to be the best parts of their proposals along with the best practices from other states that have adopted redistricting and reform into this Amendment. I'd be happy to answer any questions."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Sandack."

"The Sponsor will yield."

"Yeah." 09900124.docx 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016

"I appreciate that question. It's a valid question and one that needs to be discussed. And let me preface my… my comments by saying I do support the Independent Maps movement as well. I'm not convinced, however, that theirs will get on the ballot for a number of reasons, mostly constitutional, which we don’t have to debate now. But I also believe that after reflection and I had seen what they had done and taken part of what they had put together, and ours is better. And I… and I can tell you that Common Cause says that our initiative provides a promising path forward for ending the unfair manipulation of Legislative and Representative Districts in Illinois. It praises the Bill. It says it cre… because of the independent commission is tasked with drawing competitive districts that provide neither Party with a distinct advantage. So ours is well thought out, but the… if you're asking for the nuts and bolt differences, I can tell you how we differ in a number of significant ways. Our… our Bill… our Constitutional Amendment prioritizes the creation of districts that allow racial and language minorities in an opportunity to elect their preferred candidate or at least substantially influence the election. This is really… helps empower minorities." 09900124.docx 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016

"Excuse me… excuse me. Members, we have a very important debate going on. Can we please keep the noise level down in the chamber? Thank you. Representative Franks."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It requires the commission to reflect the ethnic, gender, and racial demographics of the state. Importantly, this also removes the General Assembly from the process completely. Absolutely, completely. It prohibits commissioners from serving in the General Assembly or being appointed to a position subject to Senate confirmation for 10 years, and it also provides for greater transparency. It leaves 15 meetings and all meetings open to the public with at least 7-days' notice and all records and communications open to the public without any attorney/client privilege. Those are the most significant differences."

"Yes, Sir. I supported them."

"Yes, Sir."

"We showed that to them after I'd put together the draft."

"Not… no, because I… I came up with a different philosophy on how… how which to go forward because the… as I said, I supported them, but my concern was because they were amending 09900124.docx 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016 more than one Article of the Constitution that I… that I believe that there… that there will be a Constitutional challenge. And I…"

"Right, but I…"

"But I'm also…"

"Whoever may challenge it…"

"…I'm saying it may not pass Constitutional muster."

"And I want to make sure that we have the best one going forward. So, that's why we were… I wanted to have the best one and we looked at what other states had done. I had looked at what… I had looked at what Independent Maps had done."

"Mr. Sandack, I've never engaged in that type of politics. I don’t play…"

"I know, but… but the idea is the skepticism, I think, is based on those people who wish to cast dispersions on a clearly superior effort that's done in good faith…"

"For the… for the purpose of protecting the taxpayers."

"Sir, I've done this… I've done this the years before."

"I was a strong proponent of the Con Con, because I wanted to discuss this at the Con Con, where people on your side of the aisle spent three and a half million dollars and trotted out Jim Edgar to say, hey, if we have a Con Con, it's going to cost a lot of money and we might talk about fair maps and God forbid. So, this is something that isn’t new to me. This is something I've been working on for years."

"I have. I have in the past. I didn’t do it this year."

"After I woke up in a cold sweat and realized that theirs probably wasn’t going to make it on the ballot, I took it upon myself to make sure that we protected the voters of this state. Because if I wouldn’t have brought this forward, there's a good chance that nothing is going to be on the ballot. This is… and beyond the fact that this is the best one written, it also has the best chance of getting on the ballot."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Fortner."

"Sponsor indicates that he will yield."

"Correct. And Independent Maps can't do that."

"Exactly, but unfortunately, they couldn’t do that legally. We're the only ones who can do that legally." 09900124.docx 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016

"Yes."

"I really appreciate that. And one other thing I wanted to point out… and I really appreciate your help on this, Mr. Fortner, because you've made this a better Bill. And the previous speaker had talked about the other efforts to get it on the ballot. Nothing precludes Independent Maps, should they withstand any constitutional challenge, to have theirs on as well. And then wouldn’t that be a great problem to have to have two of these. The people have a choice and they… we could actually change how we redistrict. I think it'd be wonderful."

"I like mine better."

"Representative Breen is recognized."

"The Sponsor will yield."

"It was something we considered, but I didn’t think it was necessary because once… assuming this passes, we could always by statute… put it in to the same commission as we wish. And as you may know, the Independent Maps didn’t have that either."

"Yes, for… absolutely."

"Presently, it's the President."

"Yes."

"Not the United States, he was here earlier." 09900124.docx 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016

"We're still… we're still in discussions on that. I'm encouraging them to have this called as… clearly every one of the good government groups sees this as a superior one. And interestingly, just a moment ago, I ever… I received a text that the Mexican-American Legal Defense and Educational Fund just sent a letter to my office in Woodstock that they support our Bill over the Independent Maps proposal because it would better protect the interests of racial and language minorities covered under Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act. I was very happy to receive that letter just a moment ago."

Speaker Turner: "Shh… Thank you, Members. Representative Christian Mitchell is recognized." Mitchell, C.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Amendment. I appreciate what the Gentleman is trying to do and I understand that for folks in this chamber, this Bill is going to be very popular. Sounds like a good idea, sounds important, sounds like something we should do. But I will be voting 'no' on this Amendment and I want to explain why. It's my belief that we as Legislators are Members of a Democratic Republic. That we are elected to represent our constituents. That we all agree that this process is not working right now and that there are changes that need to be made. Senator Raoul passed a Bill out of the Senate that makes some changes but keeps this in the hands of the Legislature. I think that's appropriate. What's dangerous about what we're doing here, Ladies and Gentlemen, is that we as a Legislative Branch are ceding our authority to a coequal branch of government. We are giving over a legislative function to the Judicial Branch. The same Judicial Branch with, by the way, there was some violation of minority rights or… the districts being contiguous or any other tenant of the Bill would then be ruling on the legality of a process made by commissioners whom they appointed. Commissioners, who by the way, will have no accounting to the public. We are taking from the hands of the people the one measure of accountability they have which is the ballot. And we are giving it over to the Judicial Branch and then asking them to rule on the legality of the 09900124.docx 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016 thing that they have just done. I think that's dangerous. I think that people have fought and died for minority rights, for representation in government, for taxation with representation. I think there are measures that we can take. I know, as I said, Senator Raoul passed something out of the Senate. I believe Senator… or I'm sorry, Representative Cassidy is working on something over here. We should continue those efforts because what we are doing right now, Ladies and Gentlemen, if the voters indeed were to agree to this, would be to be ceding our authority as the Legislative Branch to the Judicial Branch. I think that's wrong and the wrong way to go. I think we all agree that there's more reform that needs to be made. I think this is not soup yet and I think that it deserves a 'no' vote."

"The Chair recognizes Representative Will Davis." Davis, W.: "Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates that he will." Davis, W.: "Representative, earlier I heard you talk about a commission hosting hearings. As you know, one of the concerns that I would have… have had is regard to how this effort speaks to minority populations, how it speaks to communities of color, however you want to characterize that. And in your… some of your opening remarks or earlier in earlier dialogue, you talked about a commission holding hearings across the state, so let me understand those hearings. How would it be determined where those hearings will be held?"

"I think the commission would make those determinations, but we'd ask for them to be held all over the state. Because 09900124.docx 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016 as we talked about the commission is going to have to be… the commissioners are going to be from each Judicial District. So they're going to get to be all over the state, and they have to represent the racial and ethnic and demographic makeup of the State of Illinois. So…" Davis, W.: "You mean the commission itself or ultimately the…"

"The… the commissioners as well." Davis, W.: "Well, I can appreciate that. But sometimes, as I've come to appreciate down here when it comes to having minority participation, it seems to be the same old minority folks who aren’t always in touch with the minority communities, therefore. So, I'm just asking kind of how that maybe… and again…"

"I wouldn’t know… I'm not." Davis, W.: "…maybe… maybe that's too much detail for…"

"Yeah, that'd be too… that’s…" Davis, W.: "…the Amendment, but my concern would be them having conversations like for instance, they'll say we'll have one in Chicago and that that'll represent Chicago and like south Cook. And I would argue that areas like south Cook should be a separate piece and maybe have their own hearing to have this conversation."

"And… that's something we could address by a statute after this passes because there will be rule-making authority as well. There'll be an opportunity so if you have those concerns. But understand with this, as we talked about the redistricting criteria and… having at least 15, they'll be all over the state. So, I understand your concern, but understand that they have to have a priority of providing 09900124.docx 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016 racial minorities and language minorities with the equal opportunity to participate in the political process and elect candidates of their choice. I would think that would have a lot to do with where they have some of these hearings." Davis, W.: "Well, I know sometimes we have language that speaks to that but sometimes in the implementation of that there's always sometimes a challenge. So again, I'm just… thought I'd ask how that conversation might take place to make sure that there's some way. Because again, and I don’t know if the south Cook is in a particular judicial…"

"Circuit." Davis, W.: "…area… circuit, you know, and if that means that that circuit will have it's hearing in Chicago, say versus a south Cook area. You know, I… I just… I'm challenged sometimes."

"I… I understand and that's something we should discuss for sure. And I would think simply based on population of this state that most of them would be in the collar counties and… and in Cook." Davis, W.: "Okay. Well, that was only my question, Representative. Thank you."

"Thank you."

"Representative Reis is recognized."

"Sponsor indicates that he will yield."

"Thank you for that question. We allow for denesting in this proposal." 09900124.docx 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016

"I… I think they require nesting."

"They don’t have to be, they could be, but they don’t have to be."

"Well, what this… the reason why I did this, because it… it allows for more flexibilities to where we're able to meet the criteria that we've laid out. Which I think is… I think it's very important to protect minority interests."

"And… and Independent Maps doesn’t… doesn’t have that. And also, we can keep towns together. I'll tell ya when I first ran… and you see it in Cook County, I mean, southern parts of Cook you… you can have seven different… eight… eight different Reps in communities. I think it's important to keep communities together as well. And this would help do that."

"Oh, I don’t think so. There's not going to be gerrymandering because you and I aren’t going to be involved. People who look like you and I, people in this room, will not be involved. It will be people who are divorced from the political process, who don’t have conflicts of interest like we do. And so, instead of us picking our constituents, the constituents will actually for the first time get to choose who their Legislators are. So people in this room, will no longer have any influence which I think is by far the most important part of this."

"Oh, but you have, and in the past, and you're just as bad as we've been."

"I… I don’t think there's any confusion. I think that’s a red herring that you guys have put out over the weekend, because someone on the second floor said there could be confusion. But that fact is I think our voters are smart enough to understand, and I don’t think denesting is confusing whatsoever. And I would also venture to say that most people don’t know who their Senators and State Reps are. So I don’t think there's going to be a lot more confusion."

"Representative Batinick is recognized."

"He will."

"Well, I… I think… I appreciate the question that has not been asked, okay? And I think that's an unlikely scenario, but if they do make it both on the ballot, then the citizens would have a choice of which kind of reform they would like, and it'd be up to the Judiciary to decide how it goes. I think in other states, when there's been Amendments like this, they've looked at the ones that have gotten the most votes. But it would be our Judiciary who would make that determination."

"Representative Ammons is recognized."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates that he will yield."

"Thank you. Thank you, Representative Franks."

"Thank you."

"I just wanted to clarify a couple things that I worked on over the… the past week around this issue. So we have currently 37 State Legislatures are responsible for drawing their districts. How does the process you're proposing make 09900124.docx 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016 districts better as a result of what you're considering as independent people, which I don’t know who they are but…"

"I'm sorry. Your… your question was… 37."

"So… so your proposal… 37 states currently draw their districts, of course, by law, and still draw their districts by law. There have been some states that decided to put into independent commissions and the results of those commissions have… or actually reduced representation of minority Members of those Legislatures. So how does your process that you're proposing actually avoid the obvious?"

"That’s… that's a good question. And what we do now is not… there are no protections for minorities. What we do now is blatant gerrymandering so we can make… what we have now is an incumbent protection program that the incumbents, whoever… whatever Party's in power that gets to draw the maps, draws it in such a way that they don’t worry so much about who the constituents are, but how that individual who's currently representing that area can get the most votes and keep their job for the next 10 years. That's what it's based on. This, what we're trying to do is to divorce the politics from this and empower the citizens to make sure that they get to choose who their Representatives are because the… the criteria, I think, is important. They have to be substantially equal in population. They have to provide racial minorities and language minorities with the equal opportunity to participate in the political process and elect candidates of their choice. They also must provide racial minorities and language minorities who constitute less than a voting age minority of a district with an opportunity to substantially influence the 09900124.docx 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016 outcome of an election. They have to be contiguous and compact, and they also have to respect to the extent practical, geographic integrity of units of local government as well as communities sharing a common social or economic interest. So those criteria, I think, will greatly enhance the abilities."

"So let me… let me clarify because the criteria itself tells me that the average lay person won't make it on to this commission. The average person won't know how to draw maps in consideration of those things you just identified. Who are these people that are going to be nonpartisan to do what in essence the Legislature really should do."

"I don’t think the Legislature should do it, because the Legislature has done it and we've done a rotten job of it. So…"

"We got 21 Members and the most in history of African Americans in this Legislature. I don’t know who did it, but I think that's a high number in today's times."

"My point is, what we're doing is we're picking our constituents, not the other way around. So the question is, who are going to be these commissioners? They're going be… they are going to be appointed by the Supreme Court, the Chief Justice, and the Justice of the… of the… highest ranking Justice of the opposing Party and putting those folks in with one person from each Judicial District. So that's who the folks are based on these criteria, they're the ones who have been making those decisions. But understand that every map that we've ever drawn has always ended up in the Supreme Court. Okay. They're always ultimately making that decision. 09900124.docx 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016 So what we're doing now is starting there and protecting minorities."

"So… that’s… a very… actually a very good point that was… raised by one of the scholars at the university. And the question was, if it ends up in the Supreme Court or Illinois Supreme Court, ultimately at some point, how are they who are appointing then going to turn around and judge on the actual map anyway?"

"I don’t think it's… I think we avoid it this way because they're the ones who are drawing it. That’s the idea."

"That's a little unclear but I… I get that. I think there is certainly some concerns that have been expressed to me just through the research and look at other so-called independent commissions. I would hope that the commission as a result of this process if this passes, that this commission also will reflect which we don’t know how it could because we don’t have very many judges actually on the Supreme… as a matter of fact, I don’t think we have any. Do we have any minorities on the Supreme Court in Illinois?"

"Sure we do."

"How many do we have?"

"Well, you have some women on the Supreme Court. You have African Americans on the Supreme…"

"I mean, African American, Latino, people of color."

"Sure, you do."

"How many do we have there?"

"I know we have Justice Freeman, who's African American, and… yeah. Justice… I'm not sure who else. We have a couple of women as well." 09900124.docx 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016

"So I think that that bears some concern certainly in communities of color that this issue is being talked about in relationship to helping communities of color…"

"But… but let me…"

"…but it doesn’t actually reflect that in the judiciary."

"No, no, no, no, no, because that's the difference here. Because right now, even if the Supreme Court doesn't have as much diversity as you would prefer, this requires… this requires…"

"It requires the commissioners…"

"…the commission to… to be reflective and also… of what the racial and demographic of the whole state is, and it takes into account to provide for the racial minorities and language minorities. This is by far the most protections that we've ever had and this far exceeds the federal requirements, far exceeds. This will become the model for the nation."

"I hope you're right. Thank you, Representative Franks, for taking my questions."

"Chair recognizes Representative Riley."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"The Sponsor will yield."

"Jack, there's been, you know, many community forums that have gone on about this Bill. There's been a couple of them out in my district and I attended one. And it's funny, you know, we don’t make public policy on the basis of anecdotes or one meeting. But one of the things I thought was interesting at the one that I went to is there was a divide on the basis of age."

"I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you." 09900124.docx 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016

"There was a divide. Mr… Mr. Speaker. Thank you. There was a divide on the basis of age whether people were for or against a Constitutional Amendment for redistricting. The younger people tended to be for it. The older people tended to be against it. Let me just tell you what happened at this one meeting that I went to. There were people in their 50s and 60s who basically said, you know, when we make gains… and this was for the most part majority/minority group attendance. They said, when we make gains in the political process like we were told to do, then they want to change, you know, the rules in the middle of the game. Some might view that as being cynical. I didn’t, I think they had some concerns. But one of the things… and there was an attorney that spoke. He said, I remember when there was merit selection of judges, for example, we weren't getting selected. So then we came up with subcircuits and all of those types of things and through the political process. Now there are rumblings about going back to merit selection of judges. Similarly, people have, you know, taken over the years, a lot of time and effort to be elected by their peers. And they would have been the ones to redraw these maps. Now you're seeing all of these competing Amendments and ideas about mapping. And I've drawn a lot of maps in my life. I really could understand what some of these folks were saying. So, if you were there at that meeting, what would you have told them regarding those concerns?"

"I really apprec… I really appreciate that question, Al. Because this…" 09900124.docx 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016

"Members, can we please bring the noise level down in the chamber? Take all conversations to the rear. We are finishing up this debate, and it is becoming increasingly difficult for Members in the chamber to hear. Can we please bring the noise level down? Thank you."

"It's a great question. I'm glad you brought it forward, because this Constitutional Amendment is designed to maximize those gains and to… and to protect those gains. Where the system we have now, if Legislators were drawing them, whoever… whoever might have that ability, they could take away those gains by artificially gerrymandering it to break up those communities of interest. This is by far the best protection for those gains and to maximize those gains because the minority interest must be paramount, where nowhere else are they paramount."

"But there are still districts that are under the Voters Right… Voting Rights Act though, Jack."

"I'm sorry, I'm not understand… I don’t understand the question."

"Well, no, I'm just making a statement. You said that this gives a lot of protections and I'm saying there's a lot of districts that are still under the Voting Rights Act that's supposed to give those protections too. Matter of fact, a lot of people are fighting to bring back, you know, the preclearance clause that was taken out. So, how does this protect minority political gains and rights, you know, to elect people of their choice? How does this give them more protection than that would do?" 09900124.docx 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016

"Because the way this is drafted right now, the criteria for the districts besides being substantially equal in population, these are prioritized in order of priority. The… after being equal in population, it provides racial minorities and language minorities with the equal opportunity to participate in the political process and elect candidates of their choice. So it is the most important issue after it being about equal size. We can't be any clearer. This is to protect and empower racial minorities, not to diminish."

"Well, thank you for your explanation. I think, you know, there… there are people who have pause about that and I can understand, you know, some of their concerns. As I said, there was that big age differential. And you know, some of the folks were around my age. You know, where we remember. We were in high school when a lot of things like… open… you know, the Fair Housing Act and open… the Voters Rights Act were passed. And so clearly, they would have some pause at something like this. But I just wanted to convey that to you and let you know what at least some people anecdotally were thinking that I met with."

"I appreciate that."

"Thank you."

"Representative Franks to close."

"Thank you very much. I really appreciate the debate. Ladies and Gentlemen, let's do something for the people. Let's leave our cynicism outside of the chamber. Let's not hide behind… people might be confused and let's not insult the voters. We have an opportunity to fundamentally change how we draw our Legislative maps and to finally empower the citizens 09900124.docx 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 99th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 124th Legislative Day 5/3/2016 of the State of Illinois. I understand we're asking you to give up a lot of your power, but the power we're giving up is only to help us not to help the citizens. The power that we presently have is only done to protect incumbents. It's not about good government. This is about good government. This is about empowering the people to allow them to determine who is going to represent them instead of vice versa. Let's not play political games here. If you really believe that we need to fundamentally change how Illinois… to fundamentally change Illinois politics, we… many of us who have been here for a while have seen the corruption that seeps throughout very many levels of our government. One of the reasons we have that is because of these districts that we draw. This may be one of the most important votes that we do for the future of our state. Please vote 'yes' for the future of Illinois."

"Members, the question is, ‘Shall HJRCA 58 pass?’ All in favor vote ‘aye’; all opposed vote ‘nay’. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, please take the record. On a count of 105 voting ‘yes’, 7 voting ‘no’, 0 voting ‘present’, HJRCA 58, having received the requisite amount of votes, is hereby declared passed. Representative Davidsmeyer, for what reason do you rise?"

"Please proceed, Rep."

"Congratulations and welcome to your Capitol. Representative Cavaletto, for what reason do you seek recognition?"

"Please proceed, Sir."

"Thank you for being here and welcome to your Capitol. Mr. Clerk."

"Mr. Clerk."

"Leader Currie moves that the House adopt the Agreed Resolutions. All in favor say 'aye'; all opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. And the Resolutions are adopted. And now, Leader Currie moves that the House adjourn 'til Wednesday, May 4 at the hour of 12 noon. All in favor say 'aye'; all opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the House is adjourned."