17 The hour of one having arrived, the Senate will please come to 19 order. Will the members be at their desks, and will our guests in 20 the gallery please rise. Our prayer this afternoon by the 21 Reverend Richard B. Maye, Second Timothy Missionary Baptist 22 Church, Springfield, Illinois. Reverend.
(Prayer given by the Reverend Maye) 24 26 28 Thank you, Reverend. All right, Ladies and Gentlemen, before 30 the respective Caucus Chairmen issue their request for caucuses, 31 Channel 7 and Channel 3 have requested permission to film, and 32 Julie Phillips of the Marion Daily Republican has requested leave 33 to take some photographs. As we have with us today a very special 34 couple of guests, but before we go to caucus, I wanted the Senate 35 to have an opportunity to meet. There has been a resolution 36 introduced, and with leave of the Body, we would, Madam Secretary, 37 go to that order for the purpose of that Resolution...Resolutions, Madam Secretary. If you would read that, please. 38
40 Senate Resolution 247, offered by Senator Rea, President Rock 43 and all Members.
(Secretary reads Senate Resolution 247) 45 47 All right. Senator Rea has moved to suspend the rules for the 49 immediate consideration of Senate Resolution 247. All in favor of 50 the Motion to Suspend indicate by saying Aye. All opposed. The 51 Ayes have it. The rules are suspended. Senator Rea now moves the 52 adoption of Senate Resolution 247, and I would ask all in favor to 53 please rise and welcome Petty Officer Kendall Truitt. The 55 Resolution is adopted, and the Chair will yield to Senator Rea.
57 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 Thank you, Mr. President, members of the Senate. It gives me 59 great pleasure today for us to honor a person from my district, 60 who has shown so much courage and has been a person that has meant 61 so much to people throughout this nation for his work that he has 62 done, his dedication, his commitment, and today I want to not only 63 present him here today, but his wife, Carol, who has joined him 64 and at this time, it gives me great pleasure to present to you 65 Petty Officer Kendall Truitt, who certainly is one that has been 66 known throughout the area and throughout the United States, and 67 ask him to say a few words at this time.
69 (Remarks by Petty Officer Kendall Truitt) 71
73 Senator Berman, for what purpose do you arise? 75 77
Thank you, Mr. President. A point of personal privilege. We 79 are joined today by a gentleman who has gone through a...not as 80 many dramatic battles as our previous guest, but many hard 81 battles in the House and then in the Senate, is our colleague, 82 Senator Sam Maragos.
84 Sam, welcome back, nice to see you. Senator Vadalabene. 87
89 Yes, thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. 91 There will be a Democratic Caucus immediately in Room 212. Room 92 212.
94 All right. A Democratic Caucus immediately in Room 212. We 96 will stand in recess till about 2:00 o'clock. 97
(SENATE IN RECESS) 99 (AFTER RECESS) 101 103 2 21st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT May 2, 1989 ...Senate will please come to order. Senator Raica, for what 105 purpose do you arise, sir?
107 Mr. President, a point of personal privilege, please. 109
111 State your point. 113
115 With me, or with us, today we have the nineteen sixty Summer 117 Olympic. In Rome, Italy, this gentleman won the gold medal in the 118 200-meter breaststroke. He is from my district, Bill Mullikin. 119 Bill, if you can stand up.
121 Welcome to Springfield. Senator Geo-Karis, for what purpose 123 do you arise, ma'am?
125 Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate, a point of 127 personal privilege.
State your point.
129 131 133 Up in the President's Gallery is seated Mr. Donald Moore, 135 Donald Moon, rather, who is the President of Shimer College in 136 Waukegan, Illinois. If you recall, that's the same Shimer College 137 that used to be in Mt. Carroll, Illinois. I would like you to 138 help me welcome President Moon here to the Senate here today.
139 141 Will our guest please rise and be recognized. Welcome to 143 Springfield. Senator Welch, for what purpose do you arise, sir? 144
146 Mr. President, I filed a Senate Resolution 244 that I would 148 like to have a...a heard. I would like to suspend...suspend the 149 appropriate rules, it's a congratulatory resolution, and have it 150 3 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 placed on the Consent Calendar or heard, one or the other.
151 153 Can we get to resolutions? There's just a whole host of them. 155 We are not going anywhere. (machine cutoff) Resolutions. Why 156 don't we just take all the resolutions and those who wish to 157 suspend can certainly do it. All right. By the way, Channels 5 158 and 20 have addition to Channel 3 and Channel 7, who also 159 requested permission to film. With objection, leave is granted. 160 Resolutions.
162 Senate Resolution 244 offered by Senator Welch. 164 Senate Resolution 245 offered by Senator Savickas et al. 166 Senate Resolution 246 offered by Senator Thomas Dunn. 168 Senate Resolution 248 offered by Senator Zito. 170 Senate Resolution 249 offered by Senator Topinka. 172 Senate Resolution 250 offered by Senator Raica. 174 Senate Resolution 251 offered by Senator Raica. 176 Senate Resolution 252 offered by Senators Demuzio, President 178 Rock and all members. They are all congratulatory. 180 Senate Resolution 253 offered by Senators Newhouse, Marovitz 182 et al. Senate Resolution 254 offered by Senator Schuneman. It's... Those are both death resolutions.
184 186 188 All right. All those resolutions will go on the Resolutions 190 Consent Calendar. Senator Welch, what was the number of the one 191 you wish to suspend on?
193 Well, if we are going to get to that Consent Calendar, are we 195 going to get to that today or tomorrow? 196
198 4 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 No. 200 SENATOR WELCH: 202 ...244. 204 PRESIDENT: 206 All right. Senator Welch asks leave of the Body to suspend 208 the rules for the immediate consideration and adoption of Senate 209 Resolution 244, which is a congratulatory. All in favor of the 210 Motion to Suspend indicate by saying Aye. All opposed. The rules 211 are suspended. Senator Welch, on Senate Resolution 244. Welch. 212 Welch. Welch. 214 SENATOR WELCH: 216 This is merely a resolution to congratulate someone back in my 218 district. 220 PRESIDENT: 221 All right. Senator Welch has moved the adoption of Senate 222 Resolution 244. Any discussion? If not, all in favor indicate by 223 saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have it. The resolution is 224 adopted. Senator Demuzio, for what purpose do you seek 225 recognition? 227 SENATOR DEMUZIO: 228 ...Senate Resolution 252 is also congratulatory, honoring 229 Mayor Godfrey, who is retiring as Mayor, tomorrow evening, and 230 therefore I would move to suspend for the immediate consideration 231 and adoption. 233 PRESIDENT: 234 All right. Senator Demuzio has moved to suspend the rules for 235 the immediate consideration and adoption of Senate Resolution 252. 236 All in favor of the Motion to Suspend indicate by saying Aye. All 237 opposed. The Ayes have it. The rules are suspended. Senator 238 Demuzio now moves the adoption of Senate Resolution 252, a 239 congratulatory resolution. All in favor of that motion indicate 240 by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have it. 241 5 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day adopted. Senator Philip.
I May 2, 1989 240 242 Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. 244 think we have some motion filed, I move that we go to Motions 245 in Writing.
All right. 247 Senator Philip has requested that we go to the 249 Order of Motions in Writing. Madam Secretary, how many motions 250 have been filed? The Chair has informed the...the Chair has been 251 informed that 31 Motions in Writing have been filed. Senator 252 Philip, what's the nature of the motions? Now we're up to 34. 253 Senator Philip.
255 257 Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. There are, I believe, 31 motions filed by respective members to 258 discharge committee and put them on 2nd Reading. We'll be very 259 happy to...each member will be very happy to discuss exactly what 260 his bill does.
All right. Senator Demuzio,
Thank you, Mr. President. please explain to the Body the nature of that motion.
Senator Philip.
262 Senator Luft. 264 266 I would ask... Senator Philip to 268 269 271 273 275 Discharge 277 278 280 282 284 Thank you, Mr. President. It's a Motion to Committee... Temporary Committees and put it on 2nd Reading.
Senator Luft.
Thank you, Mr. President. An inquiry of the Chair, please. 286 6 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 In light of the explanation given by the Senator in regard to the 287 nature of the motion, I would ask you to rule whether or not his 288 motion is justified at this time, and if not, is it in order. 289 PRESIDENT: 291 All right. That inquiry is in order. 34 motions are we up 294 to? All right. Senate Rule...and each would be taken 295 individually, assuming they are in order. Senate Rule 10, 296 however, clearly states that the number of votes needed to 297 discharge a bill from committee is a majority of the Senators 298 elected, and the Chair certainly recognizes that. However, that 299 rule and our rules do not address the question of when such a 300 motion is justified, and for that we must again revert to Robert's 301 Rules of Order. And under Robert's Rules of Order, Section 35, 302 action to discharge a Committee from further consideration of a 303 question or subject is generally advisable only when the committee 304 has failed to report with appropriate promptness, when for some 305 urgent reason the assembly desires to proceed on the matter 306 without further aid of the committee, or if the assembly wishes to 307 drop the matter. Therefore, the Chair is prepared to rule that 308 the motion is not timely, and is out of order. Senator Philip. 309 SENATOR PHILIP: 310 Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. 311 Here we go again. There are 30 members elected by the people of 312 the State of Illinois who want to get on with the work of the 313 Illinois Senate and the General Assembly, and once again you are 314 finding a wingding reason to get the 36 votes or maybe 40 votes, 315 or maybe 50 votes, or maybe 75 votes. Absolutely ridiculous. It 316 would seem to me that at some point we ought to have a vote, and 317 for you to go out of your way to find idiotic reasons to not to 318 let us have a vote on motions is almost unconceivable, Mr. 319 President. 7 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day Well, I think the Chair...
May 2, 1989 321 323 It's unfair, it's disrespectful, un-American, and I'll tell 325 you one thing. I thought we were operating under the Senate 326 Rules. We adopted new rules, I believe, January 11. We're 327 operating under those rules. We're not operating under the 328 Robert's Rules of Order or Mason's Rules of Order. We're 329 operating under the Senate rules, and Mr. President, we should operate under the Senate rules, not Senator Rock's rules, the 330 rules that this Body has adopted, I believe, January 11, and I, of 331 course, would respectfully move to overrule the unfair, unjust, 332 unconstitutional ruling of the Chair.
334 Well...and the Chair is prepared to honor that Motion to 336 Appeal. ...Let me just say again that under our rules, when Our 337 rules are silent, as they are on a matter...under Rule 10 338 is...this is...there are criteria that Robert's sets out very 339 clearly in Section 35. ...These bills. the 34 motions are 340 currently before...are under consideration by the temporary committees of the Senate that are currently meeting. There is, in 341 the judgment of the Chair, no urgent reason, such as there was 342 with the explanation of the supplemental appropriation bill...nor 343 is there a request of the sponsor to Table. ...So for that 344 reason...those reasons...they are ruled out of order at this time. 345 Senator Philip.
347 First of all, Mr. President, we are in Regular Session. 349 Regular Session. Secondly, I wish you'd look at Rule 10, 350 Discharge of Committees, and I will read it for you. It's on page 351 7. A majority of the Senate elected by motion, recall a bill, 352 resolution, or other matters from a committee and discharge a 353 committee from further consideration as the same, 30 votes. We are 354 8 21st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT in Regular Session. Our...our rules pertain to this.
May 2, 1989 354 356 All right. Senator Philip has moved to appeal the ruling of 358 the Chair. Discussion on that? Senator Geo-Karis.
359 361 A point of parliamentary inquiry. Mr. President, you said 364 that...the...hello? Mr. President, you said that it isn't timely 365 for these motions. What do you consider timely, and when do you 366 consider it timely?
Not while the committees are currently meeting.
368 370 372 Well, Mr. President, my understanding of the rules, were..was 374 that the temporary rules only take place when we are not in 375 session. Well, we are in session right now, and what is wrong 376 with proceeding with the motions of Senator Philip? I mean, you 377 can't just say timely in 1979 and not timely now. We can't have 378 it both ways. I think it's only fair, if there is 30 votes...to 379 vote to discharge these bills, fine. If they're not, we don't 380 discharge them. But I think you are being very unfair. And 381 that's not like you to be so unfair. You're usually a very kind 382 and honorable man and a...and a very gentle person sometimes, and 383 I would suggest that you give us the opportunity to vote.
385 Senator Schaffer. 387 389
Mr. President, I would respectfully submit that this is an 391 appalling precedent. ...This is my 17th year down here, and we 392 have routinely discharged bills out of committee...and we have SO 393 far this year on several occasions, for various reasons. What you 394 in effect are saying is, that while committees are functioning, 395 there shall be no discharges, and that's not a precedent that you 396 9 21st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT May 2, 1989 want to set or that any member of the Body wants to set. I would 397 suggest to you that while I think our rules are very clear, which 398 simply says the majority of the Senators can discharge a bill any 399 time they want to, that quoting Robert's is ridiculous, because it doesn't sustain you at all. Because it clearly says as one of the 400 reasons for a discharge is when for some urgent reason, the 401 Assembly desires to proceed on a matter without further aid from 402 the committee. I would submit to you that there is an urgent 403 matter. I would submit to you that the majority of this Senate 404 wants to get on with the people's business. I would suggest to 405 you that this ruling is out of order and dilatory. Very shortly, 406 the people of this State are going to realize that not much is 407 going on in the Illinois State Senate. Let's make it clear who's 408 the dilatory person here, and group. It's not the majority. The 409 majority of the members of this Body want to get on with the 410 people's business. Again, I would suggest to you the ruling is a 411 horrible precedent, not consistent with the Senate Rules or 412 Robert's Rules, and is, in fact, dilatory.
Further discussion. Senator Demuzio.
414 416 418 Thank you,...Mr. President. As I read the Calendar, on pages 420 13, 14 and 15, it seems to me that every committee is meeting this 421 week, and every bill that has been introduced in this Body has 422 been posted for hearing, and therefore it seems to me that your 423 Ruling is...is certainly in order, and I would suggest that once 424 we dispatch with this appeal of Senator Philip wishes...wishes to 425 pursue it, then we can get the committee and get on with the 426 business of the people of Illinois.
Further discussion? Senator Collins.
428 430 432 10 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 Thank you. And I would also like to add to what Senator 434 Demuzio has said, that if we discharge all of these bills from 435 committee, we would have denied the right of the public to 436 participate in the hearings on these bills, because they can no 437 longer participate once these bills are on 2nd Reading, and given 438 that the opportunity still exists, and also given that we are on 439 this side of the aisle in those committees carrying out the business of the people of this State as we been...suppose to do, 440 and making all of the committee meetings, listening to witnesses, 441 and giving you that same opportunity to do the same, I think that 442 this motion is dilatory, and we should not....discharge, we should 443 sustain the ruling of the Chair.
Further discussion? Senator Marovitz.
445 447 449 Thank you very much, Mr. President and members of the Senate. 451 Well, we just heard from the distinguished Minority Leader that 453 those on that side of the aisle want to get on with the business 454 of the Senate. Get on with the work of the Senate. I want to 455 know what could be more in line with the business of the Senate, 456 than to go to committees, collect...for which we are getting paid 457 and collecting our per diem. Here witnesses have come from all 458 over the country and all over the State who want to testify pro 459 and con on various pieces of legislation. What could be more 460 obstructionist than for those on that side of the aisle to refuse 461 to boycott committees, refuse to come to committees, refuse to 462 hear from witnesses that come across the State and...and hear 463 important subject matters like...at two o'clock, for the Judiciary 464 Committee, there is...there is bills up dealing with the 465 important question of corporate takeovers, which is extremely 466 important to the economic survival of our State. The important 467 question of...penalties for drug dealers, bills on ethnic 468 11 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 intimidation, denial of civil rights and discrimination. What 466 could be more obstructionist than to refuse to come to committee 467 and listen to the people who have elected us? When you say you 468 want to get on with the business of the Senate, the business of 469 the Senate right now is the committee structure and listening to 470 the people. That is what the business of the Senate is, and let's 471 call it like it is. We are here to do the business of this 472 Senate. We're collecting our per diem, and I think we're earning it. I think those on that side of the aisle who refuse to listen 473 to people, are the ones who do not want to get on with the 474 business of the Senate, but want to bypass the business of the 475 Senate, discharge their duties, and come here as a slap in the 476 face to the people of this State who have traveled many miles to 477 come down here and hear our bills and your bills in committee. 478 Your bills are posted today and this week. We'd like to hear 479 those bills. There are many important subject matters that you have promulgated in your legislation. What do you say to your 480 witnesses that have come from two, three, four hundred miles, and 481 are waiting down in the those committee rooms for those bills to 482 be heard? Are you going to tell them that we want to get on with 483 the business of the Senate? Where are you, if you want to get on 484 with the business of the Senate?
Further discussion? Senator DeAngelis.
Thank you, Mr. President. ...Some time ago, around twenty 492 years ago, there was a gentlemen wrote a book called 1984. His 493 name was George Orwell. ...We've survived 1984, but the essence 494 of the book was that he was creating a society that was perfect, 495 extremely Democratic, and in the course of interactions of people 496 in that society, there developed certain...differences in the 497 manner in which people were treated, and from that came the 498 12 21st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT May 2, 1989 expression that all pigs are created equal, except some pigs are 499 more equal than others. Now I would submit... Animal Farm, I'm 500 sorry. Same author. And... 502 PRESIDENT: 504 Trivial Pursuit will meet at seven o'clock there. 506 SENATOR DEANGELIS: 508 Now when are our Discharge Motions out of order, and when they 509 are...are they not out of order, and I guess they're out of order 510 when they're made by a Republican. They're not in order when 511 they're made by a Republican, and in order when they're made by a 512 Democrat. Senator Rock, last week, in this very Chamber, you 513 ruled, or allowed to be heard, I should say, a...there was no 514 emergency on that bill, Senator Collins, it was an Appropriations 515 bill, and Appropriation Committees were meeting then as they are 516 meeting now. The fact is that there is an inconsistency in the 517 manner in which the Chair decides to rule on motions that are 518 made, depending on which pig you happen to be... Now, frankly, 519 we talked about the urgency of these committees. This Body is 520 taking this action, Mr. President, because the committees that 521 Senator Marovitz takes such great pride in, and feels so 522 conscientious about attending, and then in fact criticizing those 523 of us who don't go, are illegally constituted. Those committees, 524 Senator Marovitz, were rejected on this floor, and the reason this 525 action is being suggested today is because our only recourse is 526 this action which (Inaudible) qualifies it for the urgency or 527 emergency nature that you cited under the Robert's Rules of Order. 528 Senator Rock, all you are doing by the ruling that you have made, 529 is reinforce the idea that the hearing that we are trying to get, 530 and the motions that we are making are very justified. I would 531 urge you to reconsider that. 532 PRESIDENT: 533 Further discussion? Senator Etheredge. 534 13 21st Legislative Day
STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT May 2, 1989 533 Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentleman of the Senate. 535 I would like to ...underscore a point...just made by one of my 536 colleagues about the inconsistency of this particular ruling. Not 537 only did we discharge a bill out of committee last week, but 538 earlier the week before, I believe it was, we discharged two bills 539 out of the Senate Elementary and Secondary Education Committee. I 540 guess I would have to ask the Chair why were those motions in 541 order, and this one not in order? I, too, would ask you to reconsider...your decision.
543 And I...and I think the answer is...is patently...clear. That 545 those were represented to be an...a speedup of an effective date 546 with respect to a subject matter that's near and dear to all of 547 us, and a supplemental FY '89 Supplemental Appropriation which, it 548 was represented to the Chair, was of some urgency, was in fact an 549 emergency. Further discussion? Senator Welch.
Thank you, Mr. President.
551 553 555 Oh, I'm sorry. I...I presumed you had concluded, Senator 557 Etheredge. I apologize. Your light was not flashing. Senator 558 Etheredge.
560 Thank you very much... Mr. President. I guess...in regard to 562 the Appropriations Committee, it seems to me that I remember 563 the...chairman of that committee standing up...and opposing that 564 Discharge Motion at the time.
566 But the representation was the same. Further discussion? 568 Senator Berman. Welch's light was not on. I...maybe it's just me, 569 but the lights are not flashing up here. Did...is your 570 14 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 light...your light is now on. 570 SENATOR WELCH: 572 ...me, and then the light was turned off, because Senator 574 Etheredge was still talking. PRESIDENT: 576 Right. Right, Senator Welch. Senator Welch. 578 SENATOR WELCH: 580 Thank you, Mr. President. Let me just say that 582 the...the...side to the right keeps talking about the majority 583 believing that the rule that these committees are not...legitimate 584 is supported by the majority, and that couldn't be further from 585 the truth. A majority of Senators have shown up at these 586 committee meetings. A majority of Senators have presented bills. 587 not the minority, a majority, over thirty Senators have been 588 appearing at these committees. So that seems to me to be a tacit 589 admission that these committees are legitimate, and once you 590 admit they're legitimate, there's no reason not to come to the 591 committees. You're talking about doing the work of the Senate, 592 well then, do it. Show up at these committees. You're getting 593 paid for being there as if you were there. The majority is 594 showing up. The majority of the Senate is working. The majority 595 of us are passing bills, and you folks should be there too, 596 instead of with this...sudden change of heart. You know, about 597 three or weeks ago all of us were attending committee meetings. 598 The first report that was Tabled from any committee was from my 599 committee. There were ten bills in that report, and six of them 600 Republican bills. Not only did you participate in those committee 601 hearings, you passed out the majority of bills out of my 602 committee. So, it seems to me to now suddenly say, well now we 603 don't think those committee are legitimate, that's totally 604 inconsistent, and it's very hypocritical. I'd point out to 605 Senator DeAngelis, while he's talking about Animal Farm, the 606 15 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 animal he shouldn't...he shouldn't be referring to is not the 604 pigs, he should be referring to the sheep, because that's what we 605 are facing here.
607 Further discussion? Senator Geo-Karis. Yeah, you have been 609 up now three times in a row. I'm just trying to recognize those 610 who have not yet had an opportunity. I will certainly get to you. 611 Senator Schuneman. SENATOR SCHUNEMAN Thank you, Mr. President. Just very briefly. I've served 615 here in the Senate since 1981, Mr. President, and during that 616 period of time I would have to say that your rulings have 617 generally been very fair, and certainly have followed the rules. 618 You've been...you've been sensitive to the wishes of the majority, 619 or the minority, and the rights of the minority, until you happened to be on the other side. And I think what we're seeing 620 is a real double standard here. I would suggest to those on the 621 other side of the aisle that all that needs to be done here is for 622 the President to do what our rules say should be done, and that is 623 appoint the Standing Committees of the Senate. We do that every 624 year. You all know that. The President needs to appoint 625 standing...the members of the Standing Committees of the Senate that would be accepted by a majority of the Senate. That's the 626 only thing that needs to done to break the deadlock. I'd suggest 627 to you, Mr. President, that...that rather than go outside the 628 rules of the Senate and find some reason to rule against the 629 majority, you should...you should carry out your duty, and appoint 630 those...members. PRESIDENT; 632 Further discussion? Senator Berman.
634 636 Thank you, Mr. President. I think that...many of these 638 16 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 arguments are losing sight of what's really important. I would 639 just suggest to you that all of our parliamentary antics really 640 don't carry much weight with the citizens of the State of 641 Illinois. We have set out, whether it be in the old rules, the 642 permanent rules, the temporary rules, whatever rules, a period of time to allow the people of the State of Illinois their one 643 opportunity to come before us and have their say regarding 644 legislation that both sides of the aisle have introduced. Comes 645 Friday, under all the rules that I have seen, that deadline 646 expires. Now we can argue, and I can argue with the best of you, 647 about the parliamentary tactics and maneuvering, and 648 manipulations, but comes Friday at the close of business, the opportunity of the people to have their say regarding the bills 649 that we have introduced in the Senate, is over, and I just suggest 650 to you, as I have suggested before, that as far as my committee 651 and every other committee that is chaired by every person on this 652 side of the aisle, I extend to my members a cordial, sincere 653 invitation to join us tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m., and 654 tomorrow... Thursday evening at 6:00 p.m., to hear our bills and to allow the citizens of Illinois to have their say on those bills. 655 Those witnesses, those school officials, those citizens, the people 656 that represent the children of the State, aren't interested in 657 temporary rules, permanent rules, Robert's Rules, anybody else's 659 rules. They want to hear how we're going to improve the education of our children. We again extend to you the opportunity to have 660 your bills heard and your witnesses heard. I hope that you will 661 live up to that responsibility, and allow those people to be heard 662 and responded to honestly and in good faith, so that we can carry 663 out that obligation to those citizens. That, I think, is our 664 first and upmost obligation between now and the close of business 665 on Friday.
667 17 21st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT May 2, 1989 All right. Further discussion? Senator Geo-Karis. 669
671 Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. Yes, 673 I'd like to see the improvement of education for our children, but 674 we are not improving the education of our children when we are not 675 following the proper rules. We are following temporary rules, and 676 I call your attention to the very Senate Calendar on Pages 13, 14 677 and 15. It says Committee Hearings, and every committee is listed 678 as a Special Temporary Committee. Under Rule 9, Special 679 Committees, this is of our own Senate, "When the Senate is in 680 Recess, Special Temporary Committees may be appointed by the 681 President." Well, you've done that while we were in Recess, but 682 now we are not in Recess, and further, it says "The action of the 683 President of the committee shall stand...shall stand as...as of 684 the action of the Senate, unless the action shall be amended or 685 modified on roll call by a majority of the Senators elected the 686 next...at the next Session of the Senate. Well, we are elected. 687 There's forty-seven percent of us over here represent the State 688 of Illinois on this side of the aisle. We haven't been given any 689 consideration, and yet, you can sit there and blame us. How can 690 you do that when you're not following your own rules, for heaven's 691 sakes? You're not. You're defying the children of the State of 692 Illinois. You're telling them to go for bogus rules. Temporary 693 rules. You're not asking to follow regular rules, and I submit 694 that you should reconsider your...Mr. President. I almost called 695 you, Your Honor, and I'd love to call you Your Honor someday, but 696 this time, I believe, I have to call you Mr. President.
698 I...I let that one get away from me, too. Yeah. Further 699 discussion? Senator Kustra. 700
Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. I was 702 18 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 listening intently, of course, as I always do, Senator Berman when 703 you speak your words of wisdom for the Chamber. And I laid 704 particular emphasis of the fact that this Friday, as you say, will 705 be the last opportunity. The people will have an opportunity to 706 be heard. Well, one thing I can assure you. This Friday will not 707 be the last opportunity for the people to be denied the right to 708 be heard in this Assembly, because what we are doing today really 709 takes us back to three motions that were filed in this Chamber a few weeks ago. And those motions dealt, among other things, with 710 the Conference Committee Report system. And if you want to talk 711 about a people's right to be heard, then let's talk a little bit 712 about the many times on this floor when the people's 713 representatives were...denied the right to be heard. You're SO 714 worried about the people. The people send us to do their job, and 715 on...in this Chamber in the last week of the Session on a regular 716 basis, thanks to a decrepit Conference Committee Report process, we pass things that only come to our attention when we return home 717 every year. If we were to have considered those motions, we could 718 have straightened out some the problems that this Body has 719 suffered under current leadership, but that's not possible. 720 Within a matter of minutes, if you take a look at that motion, the 721 motions that have been filed, the first one happens to be mine. 722 By coincidence, it deals with child abuse. It deals with the case 723 of Cecilia Florez. It's a tragic case. Within a matter of 724 minutes, we could be dealing with that issue right here on this 725 floor. We don't have to wait for committee meetings, and those 726 committee meetings are going to run out of time this week, and 727 we're still going to have a load of bills which cannot, within the 728 time allotted us, be heard by this Chamber in committee. What are 729 we going to do then? One way or another, whether it is today, or 730 next week, we're going to be back here, on this floor, dealing 731 with Motions to Discharge. The question is whether you want to do 732 19 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 that today? You want to get to business? You want to talk about 731 the issues that's facing the people of the State of Illinois? You 732 can do it within minutes, right now, or you can sit around for the 733 rest of this week. I will agree with you, Senator Berman, over a 734 parliamentary dispute. One side thinking those committees aren't 735 legal and they're not permanent, and another side thinking 736 otherwise. The question now is, in the meantime do we go about 737 the people's business? Within minutes, we can be about the 738 people's business. You folks are going to have decide that. Your 739 leader is going to have to consider changing that ruling. 741 PRESIDENT: 743 Further discussion? Senator Luft. 745 SENATOR LUFT: 747 Thank you, Mr. President. Senator Kustra ought to read the 748 proposals we have been offering. we've been trying to satisfy 749 his concerns, and we've been rejected every time, on Conference 750 Committee Reports, if I'm right, and the President could 751 acknowledge whether I'm right or not. It is my understanding we 752 made an offer to deal with Conference Committee Reports, and tried 753 to solve all of our concerns with that, not just that side of the 754 aisle. Let me also point out and make perfectly clear that the 755 Republicans attended all the meetings that were held by these 756 committees up until a certain point. Secondly, or thirdly rather, 757 ...the fairness of the President of this Body should never be 758 brought in...question, I don't think, because if...all fifty-eight 759 of us were up there rather than him, we would all be less fair 760 than Phil Rock, and I don't think that's even arguable. And 761 secondly, or fourthly, if we really want to talk about fairness, 762 if we were bad people over here, you guys, some of you, would be 763 in big trouble, because I've had bills in committee that mean a 764 lot to my area, and there's two Senators sitting over there that 765 didn't show up to help. One didn't even show up on the committee 766 20 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 to vote, after that Senator was at two press conferences with me 764 on the bill. Now, if I wanted to be really unfair, I'd have gone 765 to that person's district and blasted the hell out of him. We're 766 fair. We're trying to be fair, and the man sitting up there is the fairest of us all. So let's don't talk about anything about 767 fairness. We're trying to deal with this as mature people, and 768 you can talk about Conference Committees, you can talk about all 769 the legal aspects of what we're doing, but what we're talking 770 about today, right here, right now, on this motion, is one simple 771 thing, and that's whose legislative process do we want to follow. 772 Do we want to do our legislative definition...definition 773 of...legislative process, where we hold hearings, where a majority of the committee members are showing up, letting people come in 774 throughout the country and tell us what they need? We got a open 775 process we're advocating over here. We've called everybody's 776 bills. We've ask you to come, and...or do we want to go to your 777 legislative process? Introduce a bill, have it entered in for 778 committee, discharge committee, and nobody ever gets to talk about 779 it until we get out here. That's democracy? And I think, if we 780 go back to our districts, we can argue our point and the point, 781 remember, is this, whose legislative process do you want to 782 follow, ours or yours? PRESIDENT: 783 Further discussion. Senator Keats. 785 SENATOR KEATS: 787 Thank you, Mr. President. Several people talked about 789 perspective and what we're seeing and not seeing, and sometimes 790 it's worth considering that. There was a legendary political 791 figure in this State that some of us were lucky enough to serve in 792 the Legislature during...part of his tenure, and that was Mayor 793 Richard Daley. He used to have a phrase to paraphrase, and I'm 794 going to roundly come out with it, you ought to win with grace 795 21 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 and lose with dignity. And he always was willing to work with 795 this group or that group, and one of the frustrations was, as you 796 look at what's happened in other states, people sometimes lost 797 that perspective, and it caused things to happen to form 798 coalitions across party lines, and as those coalitions came about, 799 groups that were some Republican, some Democrats, got together, 800 and they began to run the system in what they felt was a fair way. 801 In America, at this very moment, that's happening in state after state. The Speaker of the South...or the Speaker of the Florida 802 House was removed in a coalition where you had Republicans and 803 Democrats on one side, backing him, and Republicans and Democrats 804 on the other side opposing him. He was removed as Speaker of the 805 Florida House, and, with a little bit of dignity, he said, I got 806 less votes than those guys, and then, expletive deleted, departed. 807 The Speaker of the North Carolina House.... A coalition was put 808 together between Democrats and Republicans, and a Democrat Speaker 809 took office with the support of both parties. It's true in...it's 810 happened in New Mexico, Alaska, Connecticut, New Hampshire, state 811 after state, bipartisan coalitions have gotten together, and you 812 know, that's not that bad an idea. In a state as diverse and as 813 large as Illinois, with all the different groups we've got, you 814 know some of you have constituents that are fairly more similar to 815 mine than some of my brethern, and you know what? Some of us have 816 constituents that are more similar to some of yours than some of 817 your brethern. Bipartisan coalitions are perfectly acceptable in 818 virtually every other state. It is rather interesting that 819 Illinois has been unable to accept something that is considered 820 acceptable in virtually every other state in the country. 821 PRESIDENT: 823 Further discussion? Senator Schaffer. 824 SENATOR SCHAFFER: 826 Somehow I feel called upon to...suggest that thus far, and I 827 22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 21st Legislative Day May 2, 1989 don't think...any of us on this side of the aisle are trying to 828 form a bipartisan coalition to remove the President of the Senate. 829 I think our goals...yeah, yeah, okay our side doesn't want to, if 830 you guys want to, why put the motion on the floor. We're clear on 831 that issue, though. I would suggest to you, however,...and I 832 believe...Senator Marovitz's comments may at least in part been 833 aimed at me, the question of attending committees...there's nobody 834 on this side of the aisle that objects to...the concept of 835 attending committees. In fact, I can recall more than one of my 836 friends on the other side complaining that if the Republicans did 837 anything well, it was to show up at committees. ...Some of you 838 will recall those comments. I think our record on committee 839 attendance is something we can all be proud of. The question 840 isn't whether we are willing to attend committees, the question is 841 whether we recognize the validity of the committees, and I would 842 suggest to you that our rules could not be clearer. Those are 843 temporary committees. Those committees are designed to be 844 appointed when we are in Recess. ...Sometimes if you think of the 845 grade school...comparison, maybe this place does look like Recess, 846 but we are clearly not, in a parliamentary...sense, in Recess. We 847 are in full Session. Those committees clearly have no legal 848 standing, and I would quote you, if one wants to turn to 849 Robert's...it says very clearly in Robert's, if one wants to go 850 beyond our rules, which I guess on a selected basis we apparently 851 want to,...Robert's is clear. It says a Special Committee should 852 not be appointed to perform the task that falls within the 853 assigned function of an existing Standing Committee. Those bogus 854 apparitions that you people call committees are a violation of our 855 rules, of Robert's Rules, and of common sense. Let's get about 856 the people's business. Give us a roll call on a legal committee 857 system, and you'll see Republicans in their chairs participating 858 in those committees to the point that you'll wish we hadn't come 859 23 21st Legislative Day back.
STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT Further discussion? Senator Demuzio.
Thank you, that was a great speech, Jack. just...point out that...when the Temporary Committees appointed, we came back on April 5th, and according to our rules, the timely motion for that was within one legislative day. No one filed a motion, and therefore, the Temporary Special Committees are still functioning. A number of you over there sent out press releases indicating you were appointed to these various committees, and I'm sure that your districts are wondering why you are not attending, but nevertheless,...I remember...wasn't such a long time ago, although I wasn't here in the Session serving in the Senate, I remember a fellow who served in that post up there by the name of Russell Arrington. He, I think, had some responsibility with respect to this three-fifths rule, and he also had, if I remember correctly at that time, proxy voting, where you didn't have...much...hearing process that took place in...in committee. So, I understand what fairness is now. You want to go back to that same process. You want to discharge and put all of your bills on 2nd Reading, and you want to put all the Democratic bills on the Secretary's Desk. That doesn't seem to me to be the fairness that we're all ascribed to here in this Body.
All right. The question is...is there any further discussion? Senator Philip, do you wish to close? The question being, shall the ruling of the Chair be sustained? Senator Philip has...appealed the ruling of the Chair. Senator Philip to close.
...Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. I will remind everybody on January 11th, we did...adopt 24 May 2, 1989 855 857 859 861 ...Let me 863 were 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 881 883 884 885 886 888 890 891 21st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT May 2, 1989 the Rules of the Senate. We should remember that. We should 892 operate under the Rules of the Senate, not Robert's Rules of 894 Order, not Mason's Rules of Order. Senator Berman, I... I feel the way you do, that citizens ought to have the right to testify in 895 committee. When they come down here, they ought to have their 896 chance to talk to the members of the committee. Senator Berman, 897 they can't...the sponsor doesn't have to be there. All the 898 chairman of that committee had to say is absolutely come in and 899 testify. You can let those people testify. Senator Marovitz, 900 Appropriations II today, you were absent the whole time. I know it's very serious that we ought to be in all those committee 901 hearings. I understand what you're saying, but Senator, for some 902 reason, you were not there today, and I would like to know how the 903 majority can be dilatory, Mr. President? If there are thirty 904 members here united for any reason, any cause, for any motion, how 905 can we be considered dilatory? I don't understand that. Once 906 again, I hate to do it, but I certainly respectfully appealing the 907 rule of the Chair, and ask for a roll call. 909
All right. The question is, shall the ruling of the Chair be 911 sustained? All those in favor of sustaining the ruling of the 912 Chair will vote Aye. Those opposed to sustaining the ruling of 913 the Chair will vote Nay, and the voting is open. Have all voted 915 who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? 916 Take the record. On that question, there are 28 Ayes, 30 Nays. 917 Having failed to receive the necessary three-fifths negative vote, the appeal fails, and the ruling of the Chair is sustained. 918 Senator Philip.
...Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 922 Senate. We filed a second motion in regard to taking from the 923 Secretary's Desk. 25 21st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT May 2, 1989 925
All right. Further motions, Madam Secretary. Read the 927 motion.
929 I move that all applicable rules be suspended, and that Senate 931 Bill 55 be taken from the Calendar Order of Secretary's Desk and 932 be placed on the Calendar Order of 2nd Reading. I request a roll 933 call vote on this motion. Filed by Senator Judy Baar Topinka. 934
936 Senator Topinka. If you explain the nature, there has been 938 some inquiry as to what the nature of the motion is.
939 941 Yes, Mr. President. The nature of the inquiry is I would like 943 to...suspend...the rules, the temporary rules, here to get my 944 motion heard from the Secretary's Desk. It is a bill that has 945 involved a lot of activity. It has been supported strongly by 946 Attorney General Hartigan, who wishes to pursue on this front as 947 well, because it does involve basically a standard set for 948 telecommunications and fires, which of course, with the Hinsdale 949 fire last year, took down all telecommunications in Northern 950 Illinois, and basically, had an impact throughout the State and 951 throughout...other states, our surrounding states. It's something 952 that is of an emergency nature. It will set the pace and the 953 model basically, for the United States as well as for foreign 954 countries, who are watching what we do here, and I would 955 appreciate that this bill be heard.
956 Well, Senator Topinka, the Chair fully understands your 958 concern and is again prepared to rule that this motion...is also, 959 at this time, out of order. Senator Philip. 960
962 Thank you, Mr. President. I would... I would like to have you 964 26 21st Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 86th GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT May 2, 1989 cite your source and explain your ruling. That's a dandy.
965 967 Well, all I said was at this time, it's out of order. 969 It's...close to four o'clock in the afternoon, I've got three 970 requests for a caucus. Senator Welch.
Mr. 972 974 President, I would just point out that Senate Bill 55 had a complete hearing in committee, and it was voted out of committee 975 on a vote of 11 to nothing. The sponsor of this motion to take 976 the bill from the Table voted to put it on the Table. So, it 977 would seem to me that it's somewhat contradictory, and 978 perhaps...there is a rule prohibiting a member from voting to put 979 a bill...their own bill on the Table, then asking to remove that 980 bill from the Table. It would seem to me to be dilatory, if nothing else.
982 984 985 Senator Topinka, the Chair has...ruled that the motion is out of order. I think the proper motion would be, since you had voted on the prevailing side, to move that bill from where it was to 986 where it is, you ought to vote to reconsider and move them all 987 back. Any further business to come before the Senate? If not, 988 Senator Demuzio moves that the Senate stand adjourned until noon 989 tomorrow. Noon tomorrow, Ladies and Gentlemen. END OF TAPE 992 27 REPORT: TIFLDAY 09:26 STATE OF ILLINOIS 86TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY SENATE DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX PAGE 03/02/90 1 MAY 02, 1989 SR-0244 ADOPTED PAGE 4 SR-0245 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 4 SR-0246 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 4 SR-0247 ADOPTED PAGE 1 SR-0248 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 4 SR-0249 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 4 SR-0250 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 4 SR-0251 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 4 SR-0252 ADOPTED PAGE 5 SR-0253 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 4 SR-0254 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 4 SUBJECT MATTER SENATE TO ORDER - PRESIDENT ROCK PAGE 1 PRAYER - REVEREND RICHARD MAYE PAGE 1 INTRODUCTION OF GUEST - SENATOR REA PAGE 1 RECESS PAGE 2 SENATE RECONVENES - PRESIDENT ROCK PAGE 2 SENATOR PHILIP - MOTIONS TO DISCHARGE COMM. PAGE 6 SEN. LUFT INQUIRES RE: MOTIONS TO DISCHARGE COMM. PAGE 6 SENATOR PHILIP'S MOTION RE: APPEALS CHAIR PAGE 8 SEN.'S PHILIP/TOPINKA MOTION RE: SB 55 PAGE 25 ADJOURNMENT PAGE 27