The regular Session of the 90th General Assembly will p lease come to order . Will the Members please be at their desks? Will our guests in the qalleries please rise? Our prayer koday will be given by the Reverend Daryl Fansler, United Methodist Church , Petersburg , Illinois . Reverend Fansler.
(Prayer by the Reverend Daryl Fansler)
Please remain standing for the Pledge of Allegiance. Senator Sieben .
(Pledge of Allegiancer 1ed by Senator Sieben)
Reading of the Journal. Senator Butler.
Mr . President, I move that reading of the Journal of Tuesday , October 28th, in the year 1997, be postponedy pending arrival of *he printed Journal .
Senator Butler moves to postpone the reading and the approval of the Journalz pending the arrival of the printed transcripts. There being no objection, so ordered. Messages.
A Message from Joseph A . Spagnolo, State Superintendent of Education , October 24th g 1997 . To the Members of the General Assembly - Below are the descriptions for tWo Waiver requests that are being subm itted for General A ssembly consideration as addendum to the report it received on Oceober 1st, 1997 .
Committee Reports . l STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997
Senator Klemm , Chair of the Comm ittee on Executive , reports Senate Joint Resolution Constitutional Amendment 15 Be Adopted and House Joint Resolution 30 Be Adopted, as Amended. Senator Sieben , Chair of the Committee on Agriculture, reports Senate Bill 1195 Do Pass . And Senator Cronin , Chair of the Committee on Education , reports House Bills 452, 654, 1005 and 1098 Do Pass, as Amended .
Messages from the House .
Message from the House by M r. Rossi, Clerk . Mr. President - I am directed to inform the Senate that the House of Representatives has adopted the following joint resolution , in the adoption of which I am instructed to ask the concurrence of the Senate, to wit : House Joint Resolution 35 . Adopted by the House, October 28th: 1997. It's a death resolution .
Consent Calendar. Introduction of Bills .
Senate Bill 1208 , offered by Senator Geo-Karis . (Secretary reads title of bill) House (sic) (Senate) Bill 1209, offered by Senators Burzynski and Syverson . (Secretary reads title of bill) And House Bill -- o r, Senate Bill 1210 , offered by Senators Burzynski and Syverson. (Secretary reads title of bill) lst Reading of the bills.
2 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29 , 1997 House B ills lst Reading .
House Bill 932, offered by Senator Lauzen. (Secretary reads title of bill) lst Reading of the bill.
.. . has been a request from WQEC-27 to film the proceedings. Any objections? No objectlons. Leave is granted.
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) e.. morning, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. The Vernon Hills seniors request perm ission to film while the Senate is in Session. Hearing no objection, the request is granted. Senator Link. For what purpose do you arisez Senator Link?
Point of personal privilege, Madam President.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Skate your point , Senator Link .
As you indicated, We are privileged with the senior citizens from Vernon Hills , which is rep resented by Senator Geo-Karis , Senator Peterson and myself, and we'd like to welcome all the senior citizens. And they are constituents of all of ours , but the person that is leading them today is a very close constituent of ours, and it happens to be my wife , Susan Link . And I 'd like to welcome them all to the Senate. And if we could welcome them Eoday .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Thank you . You 're very fortunate to have your wife . We welcome al1 of you. Senator Bomke, for what purpose do you rise?
Thank you, Madam President . Point of personal privilege .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) 3 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLX REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCR IPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997 State your pointe Senator Bomke .
Wanted -- announce -- wanted to announce that it 's my ...
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Can we have your attention, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate? Thank you . Senator Bomke .
Thank you , Madam President. It 's the colleague to my left, Senator Myers ' birthday today . She tells me she 's thirty-nine .
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Happy birthday to Senator Judy Myers .
And there is cake ...
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) And there is cake over here for the Senato rs . Lad ies and Gentlemen of the Senate , we dre going to start at the bottom of page 7 of today 's Calendar in the Order of Mokions in Writing to Override Total Vetoes . This Will take thirty-six votes. We would like to have your undivided attention . This is important to all of you. Senate Bill 36. Senator Peterson? Read the motion, Madam Secretary .
I move that Senate Bill 36 do pass, the veto of the Governor to *he contrary notwithstanding. O ffered by Senator Peterson .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator Peterson .
Thank you , Madam President . Senate Bill 36 is a notification bill for senior citizens regarding the assessment freeze. The bill Would mandate that supervisors of assessments would give notification , either by mail or publication , that the seniors can 4 ' STATE OP ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TFANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29 , 1997 f ile for this particular freeze . Does -- Cook Countyg I understand, already does this , so it wouldn 't af fect Cook County ; would affect the other counties . This notice could be put in the tax bills . When the treasurer sends out their tax bills , a notice could be put in there . So We don 't look at it as a -- a big cost to local governments. The Governor1s basic objection kas he felt it was an unfunded mandate . I think seniors deserve this . It 's not a -- a biq cost to local qovernments y and in fact , I haven dt had one local government or county call me and say that they couldn 't abide by this particular bill . I ask for your -- your support to override the Governor 's veto on Senate Bill 36 .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Any further discussion? Any further discussion? The question is : shall Senate Bill 36 pass , the veto of the Governor to the contrary notwithstanding . Those in favo r # vote Aye . Those opposedz vote Nay . And the voting is open . Have all voted who wished? Have a11 voted who Wished? Have all voted who wished? Take the record , Madam Secretary . On that question , there are 54 voting Aye , none voting No , none voting Present . And this bill , having received the required three-f if ths vote , is declared passed r the veto of the Governor to the contrary notw ithstanding . Senate Bill l94 . Senator Dudycz? Out of the record . Senate Bill 278 . Senator Collins? Senator Collins? Out of the record . Senate Bill 473 . Senator Syverson? Out of the record . Senate Bill 548. Senator O 'Malley? Senator O 'Malley , 548? Out of the reco rd . senate Bill 56l . Senator O 'Malley? Read the -- the -- the bill -- the motion, Madam Secretary .
. . . move that Senate Bill 561 do pass , the veto of the Governor to the contrary notwithstanding . Offered by Senator O 'Malley . PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) i 5 STATE OF ILLINO IS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY ! REGULAR sEssloN SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29: 1997 Senator O 'Malley . SENATOR O 'MALLEY : Thank you, Madam President and -- and Members of Ehe Senate. Senate Bill 561, I -- I move to override the Governor 's veto . When Senate Bill 56l was considered by the Senate originally , it passed unanimously. In the House, it passed unanimously. On the concurrence on the recommendations from the Housey the Senate passed that unanimously as -- as well . What -- what the legislation does is require that the Human Resources Investment Council recommendations be reviewed by the -- by the General Assembly before they actually be enacted and -- and -- and put into effect. The suggestions that came from DCCA -- there was a letter that went out from DCCA , saying that -- that these Human Resource Investment Council recommendations are purely advisory. I can assure you, if you read the original law , that is not the case. This -- this particular Council has the ability to actually enact these provisions . And what I am requesting that we do is stay put With where we were before and have some -- some General Assembly oversight of the recommendations coming from this -- very -- very important council 's work. If there 's any questions : I 'd be happy to answer them . PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) If we may have your attention. Senator Demuzio . SENATOR DEMUZIO : Thank you , Madam ... PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Just a minute , Senator Demuzio . Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate , let 's give us -- let 's glve the courtesy to the speakers . Thank you . Senator Demuzio . SENATOR DEMUZIO : May I ask if the Senator will yield for a question , please? PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) 6 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997 He indicates that he will .
Senator O 'Malley , as I recall g what took p lace here is that the Human Resource Investment Council -- we changed the Statute about a year or so ago , giving them some ultimate authority , apparently, over all of the new block grants and other types of activities for job training and things of that nature, as I -- as I recall. Am I correct so far? All right. Then... The Senators now nodding yes . Then 1, too , thought that that was gospel; that whatever the recommendations that they made w ith respect to the block grants and to the other types of goals and objectives that they established , that they had the authority to make specific recommendations to grantees, aecept grants and -- and make those qrants outrighty rather than having to go back through the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs ; that they were sort of going to be the nucleus, I assume , to the tell the Department who to give the money to and things of that nature. And now what youdre attempting to do is to say that after you make those decisions of -- of -- of who's going to get the money, then you have to come back to the General Assembly for final approval . Is that what we 're saying here?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Sena tor O 'Malley .
That ls essentially correct z Senator.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEQ-KARIS) Senator Demuzio .
What happens in the situation -- and don 't quarrel with that. What happens in the situation where we dre not necessarily on the same timetable w ith the federal government and so not necessarily are we going to be in Session? When they get the money 7 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997 and they make certain recommendations , a re they still going to be required to come to the General Assembly with those recommendations for our app roval? Is that going to delay the process at all?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator O 'Malley .
It -- it is my understanding that their recommendations could be implemented to some extent, even with this legislation. Representative Phelps, who is the sponsor of the legislation in the House , added language that basically said that if the General Assembly failed by joint resolution to act within seven months of the recommendations com ing forward , then they Would be deemed revoked , which would force them to go back and -- and make their recommendations again.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-RARIS) Senator Demuzio .
Well, I -- I don 't have any quarrel with that . A ll -- I don 't want to get myself into a situation where they have to come and the Legislature has to agree to a1l this, because then Wedre back into the political thing . If you have more political clout in a certain area , you want amounts changed , grants changed , et cetera and so forth . I don 't quarrel w ith what you 're do in: and I 'm willing to go along with it, but... If it 's on the up and up and it 's straiqht, it 'll work and it dll be fine . If it isn 't , then we 're going to have a problem. Thank you.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Any further d iscussion? Any further discussion? Any further discussion? Hearinq none, Senato r O 'Malley has moved that Senate Bill 561 do pass , the veto of the Governor to the contrary notw ithstanding . All those in favor Will vote Aye . Those opposed 8 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCR IPT 64th Legislative Day October 29r 1997 will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have all voted who wished? Have all voted who wished? Have all voted who w ished? Take the record . On that question , there are 53 voting Ayep none votin: No , none -- none voting Present . And the -- the bill , having received the required three-fifths majority -- the required three-fifths majority, is declared passedz the veto of the Governor to the contrary with -- notwithstanding . Senate Bill 1103 . Senator Severns? Read the bill , Madam Secretary .
I move that SenaEe Bill 1103 do pass, the veto of the Governor to the contrary notwithstanding . Offered by Senator Severns.
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator Severns. SENATOR SEVERNS ) Thank you , Madam President , Members of the Senake . This is a bill that affects only one community, my City of Decatur. It simply provides that the City should provide an alternative to leaf burning, based on the medical evidence that's been provided. It -- it has no price tag , and it has no impact on any other city but my city. And I would urge a favorable vote on the motion to override the Governor 's veto .
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Any further discussion? Any further discussion? Any further discussion? Hearing none , Senator Severns has moved that Bill -- senaEe Bill 1103 pass, the veto of the Governor to the contrary nokwikhstanding . A ll those in favor , vote Aye . A ll opposed Will vote Nay . The voting 's open . Have all voted who kished? Have a1l voted who wished? Have all voted who wished? Have al1 voted who wished? Take the record . On that question, there are only 29 voting Aye , 22 votinq Nay , 2 voting Present . And this billy having failed to receive the required three-fifths vote , is hereby 9 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCR IPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997 declared lost . A t this kime , Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate , we fre going to go to the Order of Business of Motions in W riking to Accept the Specific Reeommendations for Change, in the middle of page 8. Senator O 'Malley. Senate Bill 5l. Madam SecreEary, read the bill .
I move to accep t the specific recommendations of the Governor as to Senate Bill 5l, in manner and form as follows : Amendment to Senate Bill 51 in Acceptance of Governor's Recommendations Offered by Senator O 'Malley .
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Please let -- let us have your attention . Senator O 'Malley .
Yes . Madam President, w ith respect to Senate Bill 5l, I move that we accept the specific recommendations of the Governor. I do not have my bill file here , but there a re a number of provisions in this legislation. The Governor felt that one provision needed some clarifying language. I reviewed that language and found it to be acceptable , as did the school district that Was affected by the legislation. So againg I would move that we accept the Governor 's recommendation .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Any further discussion? Any further discussion? Hearing none , the question isz shall the Senate accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to Senate Bill 5l , and -- in the manner and form just stated by Senator O'Malley. And those in favor, vote Aye . Those opposed will vote Nay . The voting is open. Have a1l voted Who Wished? Have a11 voted who w ished? Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On that question, Madam Secretary, there's 57 votinq Aye, none voting No, none voting Present . And the specific recommendations of the Governo r 10 STATE OP ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLV REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29 , 1997 as to Senate Bill 5l# having received the required constitutional majority of Senators elected: are -- are hereby declared accepted. Senate Bill 368 . Senator O 'Ma11ey? Madam Secretary , read the bill.
I move to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to Senate Bill 368, in manner and fo rm as follows: Amendment to senate Bill 368 in Acceptance of Governor's Recommendations Offered by Senator O 'Malley .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEQ-KARIS) Senator O 'Malley .
Thank you , Madam President . Senate Bill 368 , I am moving that we accept the Governor's recommendations . Again, I 've reviewed them . The interested parties associated with this legislation had no problem with them . This leg islation passed the Senate unanimously when it Was originally presented, and overwhelm ingly in the House . Be happy to answer any questions there might be .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Any further discussion? Any further discussion? Any further discussion? Hearing none , the question is, shall the Senate accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to Senate Bill 368, in the manner and form just stated by SenaEor O'Malley. Those in favor, vote Aye . Those opposed w ill vote Nay . The votinq is open . Have all voted who wished? Have all voted who wished? Have all voted who wished? Take the çecord . On that question , there are 57 votinq Aye , none voting Nay , none voting Present. And the specific recommendations of the Governor as to Senate Btll 368, having received the required constitutional majority vote of Senators elected, are declared accepted. Senate Bill 780. Senator O 'Malley? Read the bill , Madam Secretary . 11 i STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL A SSEMBLX REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29# 1997
I move to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to Senate Bill 780 , in manner and form as follows : Amendment to Senate Bill 780 in Acceptance of Governor's Recommendations Offered by Senator O 'Malley .
PRESIDING OPPICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator O 'Malley .
Yes. Madam President, I move that We accept the recommendations of the Governor w ith respect to his Message concerning -- Senate Bill 780 .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Any -- any further discussion? Any further discussion? Any further discussion? Hearing none , the question is , shall the Senate accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to Senate Bill 780, in the manner and form just stated by Senator O 'Malley . Those in favor will vote Aye . Those opposed will vote Nay . The voting is open. Have al1 voted who wished? Have al1 voked who kished? Have all voted who wished? Take the record . On that question, there are 56 voting Aye, none voting Nay, none votin: Present. And the specific recommendations of the Governor as to Senate Bill 780, having received the required constitutional majority vote of Senators elected, are declared accepted. Senate Bill 805 . Senator O 'Malley? 805 . Madam Secretary .
I move to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to Senate Bill 805, in manner and form as follows : Amendment to Senate Bill 805 in Acceptance of Governor's Recommendations Offered by Senator O 'Malley .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) 12 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997 Senator O 'Malley .
Madam President, thank you . I move that we accept the recommendations set forth in the -- in the Governor 's Message concerning Senate Bill 805 . I 'd be happy to answer any questions there may be .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Any further discussion? Any further discussion? A ny further discussion? Hearing none , the question is, shall the Senate accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to Senate Bill 805, in the manner and form just stated by Senator O'Malley. Those in favor will vote Aye . Those opposed will vote Nay . And the voting is open . Have all'voted who wished? Have all voted who wished? Have all voted who wished? Take the record . On that question, there are 55 voting Ayer none voting Nay r 2 voting Present . And the specific recommendations of the Governor as to House Senate Bill 805, having received the required conskitutional majority vote of Senators electede are declared accepted . The next order of business on page 8, at three-quarters of the page down, the Motions in Writing to Override Specific Recommendations. Senate Bill 843. Senator Cullerton? Read the bill , Madam Secretary .
I move that Senate Bill 843 do pass, the specific recommendations of the Governor to the contrary notwithstandinq . Offered by Senator Cullerton .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR CEO-KARIS) Senator Cullerton.
Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Senate. This is the only motion on the Calendar of a -- a motion to -- to override a specific recommendation for change by the Governor, I believe. 13 STATE OE ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29 , 1997 This bill was introduced on Feb ruary 7th . It was amended on March 12th . That 's how long the public has been awa re of what has been in this bill. Everybody in this room who votes voted for th is bill. Everybody in the Judiciary Committee voted for it. Everybody on the Senate Floor voted for it. And I did not mumble this bill through. I stood up and told you exactly What this bill was about. And I appreciate your attention because We dre going to do it again . A Travis King , ten-year-old child , drowned in the park district swimming pool, I believe in the Zion Park District. It was supervised by eleven lifeguards . He hit his head on the diving board , sank to the bottom . Two different patrons of the pool asked two different lifeguards to take action. They did nothing. Another patron jumped in to save Travis, but it was too late. The Supreme Court, in the Barnett decisionr which is what this case was -- was about, pleaded with us to change the law , and we did . We introduced the bill on February 7th7 we amended it on March 12th 7 and it flew through this General Assembly . And the reason why it flew is because we didn't look upon this from a lobbying point of viewz we didn't look upon this from the trial lawyers or the doetors or the -- the IMA ; We looked upon it as parents, potential parents of children who could be injured and who could drown. And it became clear to everybody here that the 1aw had to be changed . It became clear that we have to have a public policy that says local public entikies should not be immunized for aets of willful and wanton conduct in supervising activities on public p roperty . Now , the law khat does exist that We 're trying to change is Section 3-108. It's got tWo -- tWo sections to it, (a) and (b). What section (a) says right now, befo re we change it : is that a local public entity nor a public employee, they are not liable for an injury caused by a failure to supervise, even if it 's willful and wanton behav ior. And we said that 's wrong . So we added one sentence : ''unless the local public 14 i m . < ... . . .. ..... . ....... . STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLV REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997 entity or public employee is guilty of willful and wanton conduct...'' which causes the injury. This is not just negligence, folks. Willful and wanton conduct is -- is like recklessness . And welre just saying, when someone is so reckless ehae their conduct is willful and wantonz the plaintiff should have a -- an opportunity to prove their case . The second section of the Statute dealt specifically with pools , and what it said was : if if it 's a public pool and it 's desiqnated for swimming and there 's a notice posted on the premises of the hours, that the -- the public employee or the entity can be liable for injuries, unless it's supervised - unless it's supervised . So in the Barnett case, the Supreme Court said : You know what? As bad an outcome as this is, because they had a lifeguard, even though he was willfully and Wantonly reckless, because they had a lifeguard, you can 't prevail. And so we struck section (b). We struck it. And everybody here voted for it. Now r after the bill passes, the Municipal League , I 'm sure well-intentioned z has gone out and lobbied. They lve contaceed you know how people do that lobbying. They contact people, word of mouth; they dre supposed to call you , and khey dve all called you . If you understood what this bill really did and you called them back and you explained it to them , most of them would say, '1Well, I didnlt really realize that that's what they Were talking aboutr'' because the word that they lre gettinq out on this ls HYour property taxes are qoing to qo up ; everybody 's going to file lawsuits over frivolous matters , and the cities are going to have to pay enormous judgments.'' And that 's not the case, because this is limited to w illful and wanton conduct. And let me tell you , from what -- from what I understand in the p ractice of law , if you file a -- a complaint and you -- you make up somethinq, if it 's not willful and wanton conduct, you can be sanctioned . There can be penalties for for false pleading. And so, it's not going to be a floodgate of litigation. 15 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997 As a matter of -- matter of fact : speaking of floods , there was a flood - remember? - in the City of Chicago , and the City of Chicago won . There was a lawsuit and the City of Ch icago won that lawsuit . And the Supreme Court agreed with the Appellate Court when they said that not only did the City w in because of this Section ' but that the City also would win because there 's a concept called ''discretionary activity'' that is immunized . So discretionary activity by City employees is immunized . So they dre covered. This is not the type of bill which is qoinq to open floodgates of litiqation . This is the type of bill that has to be passed . It has to be passed . Now z I noticed on the Calendar that Senator Klemm has filed a motion to accep t the Governor 's amendatory veto. Let me tell you something: I Would have thought that if we failed to override, that maybe that Would be accep table , but now that I 've read the Governor 's amendatory veto closely , let me tell you what he 's done. He 's made it worse than the current law . He has literally made it worse than the current law . He has added new elements to being able to try to prove in a swimming pool case, in a drowning , that the city is liable . And so I would urge you to vote the way you voted the first time we voted on this bill . This is , let 's face it, politically - politically, let's just think at that level - the right vote -- a Yes vote is the right vote , but more importantly , the public policy of the State ought to be that a person like the -- the family of Travis Xing should have a right to proceed against someone who ts w illfully and wantonly neqliqent and reckless . Por that reason , I ask for an Aye vote .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Further discussion? Senator Fawell.
Thank you very much . W ill the sponsor yield for a question?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) 16 ! STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Leg islative Day October 29 r 1997 He tndicates that he will.
Senator , I 've gotten a number of letters on this bill from my towns, Winfield, Wheaton, Glen Ellyn, Downers Grove, al1 of whom say they certainly agree with the intent of the bill , what happened was a tragedy , but this bill , the way it is written , was way too broad and we are, in effect , causing an action so that al1 of our municipalitiesz and what have you , can be found liable for acts that they have no control over, in reality. I don't think this is really what we want to do . We deliberately lim ited the liability of our municipalities so that we wouldn 't have some of the problems that wedve had in the past where huge judgments have come against our communities for, really , things that are really not necessarily a willful and wanton thing but perhaps just a -- an accident - crack in khe sidewalk, this type of thing . I don 't think this is really what we want to do. I -- I Will 1ay you odds that every sinqle one of us in this Chamber have received similar-type correspondence, and I'm sure you have -- I Would assume you would have, from the Clty of Chicagor also received such correspondence . think we ought to let the sleep ing dogs lie. Come back if you do noE want to accept the Governor's amendatory veto , which limits it to the situation you dre talkinq about . And I strongly would urge my colleagues to remember their mail and to vote No.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator Walsh . Thomas Walsh.
Thank you , Madam President . I move the prev ious question .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) There are now one , tko , three , four, five , six , seven -- there are eight speakers. You -- you moved the previous question and wefll just -- just localize those speakers only. Senator Dillard. 17 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997
Thank you, Madam President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. Would the sponsor yield for a question , please?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) He indicates that he will.
Senaeor Cullerton, I just want to make it clearg and Ilve read khe bill and it 's a very small change. I mean, we Ire not talking about a massively , newly worded Statute . But I want to make sure that understand this. Is it possible not to be Willfully and wantonly liable, even if there is no supervision?
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-RARIS) Senator Cullerton .
If -- I'm not -- I1m not certain if I can answer that. If -- if -- or, if I fully understand what -- what youdre saying. If -- if someone is supposed to supervise -- if the lifeguard is supposed to supervise but he doesn't show up, he doesn't perform the supervision , I imagine he could be found to be willfully and wanton in his conduct . But that, of course , would be a matter for the krier of fact. Under the current law , you don 't even get to that question, and that's why we need the bill.
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senato r Dillard .
Just -- just so I'm clear, and let me rephrase it just a little bit, Senator Cullerton : Can 't there be some circumstances where supervision is not needed , but somebody m ight file a lawsuit , but in the end , it Wouldn 't be willful and Wanton conduct?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) . . . cullerton . 18 STATE OP ILLINO IS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29# 1997
I understand . And that -- that goes to the issue that 's raised by the municipalities: This will just be a floodgate of litiqation. And the answer is, you have to show that something -- the conduct is willful and wanton . Now z if no one was -- for example, if no one was ever even assigned to be a supervisor - the kids are playing in the park; there 's no supervisor - some kid falls and slips on a slide y that 's not willful and wanton behavior. So I -- I think What we dre talking about is a -- a fact situation that you first posed : that I could see where there could be a -- a possibility , where someone Was supposed to be a supervisor and didn 't -- didn 't show up , where you could say r yes, that was willful and wanton. But in the -- if I understand the -- the gist of your question , the -- this is not going to be a -- open up the -- the floodgates of litigation for a situation where somebody says, ''We11 , you should have had a supervisoro'' That 's not what we 're talking about here , 'cause that could not be w illful and wanton , as I understand it.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator Dillard . Senator Dillard .
Senator Cullerton, and to the bill, Madam President r I don 't have a p roblem with your override motion. I may be one of the feW people around here who actually read , other than Senator Fawell , a11 the letters from my local qovernment. But more importantly , I did a little work, a little research : I read the bill . So I don 't have a p roblem and I 'm going to vote w ith you , Senato r Cullerton, on this. But What I want to make it clear and -- is that there are some instances where supervision is not needed at a park or a local government, and just because there's no supervisor doesn 't automatically mean that the conduct of that local government or park district was w illfully and wantonly conduct. 19 ! STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Leqislative Day October 29 g 1997 So, you know , Senator Cullertonr I 'm with you on this. do want to -- you know , hopefully , it won 't come to this . Hopefully , we won 't have to make some changes in the definition of what is proper supervision . But I certainly don 't have a problem with the override motion on this , 'cause I 'm not going to sit here and defend any conduct by a park district or a local government where w illful and wanton - this very high standard of conduct is present . And I appreciate the Gentleman answering my questions . Thank you .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Purther d iscussion? Senator Luechtefeld .
Senator, over the years With litigation and problems like that , many public entikies I have seen , at least in my communities - schools and parks and so on - tend to be so afraid of -- of problems that they -- they tend to move in the direction of closing these facilities more and more and they dre not -- to the use of the public . Would you see this law moving in that direction? PRESIDING OFFICERI (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator Cullerton.
Well, Senator, you know , I respond to that the same way I -- I react to the letters . You know r the letters that they sent - and I don 't think intentionally r buE unintentionally - exaqgerate and m isstate what the b ill does . And if Ehey don 't understand , from their lawyers that they hire , what exposure we lre ke fre giving them , then I would say anything 's possible . But the fact of the matter is , this is a very , very limited circumstances under wh ich they would be liable, and it 's only in those rare cases where there is w illful and wanton behavior and -- like the case that -- that the Barnett case dealt with. Now, if you talk to them , they 20 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997 would say even in those cases , they 'd say it 's tragic , but they don tt even want to pay in those cases . You know , I understand . That 's -- that 's what they -- they do . They don 't Want to pay ever. But -- and we lve given them broad immunity . I mean , we have really allowed them to -- to go about the business of providing public service without having to worry about frivolous lawsuitsy for certain, and in this case, if theyfre just negligent, they 're not liable . They can 't be liable . So it 's only in those rare cases where there -- someone is just so blatantly reckless, and I just say, and I hope you agree, that we 've got to -- we 've go to do something about those cases , and that 's what this bill is limited to .
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Further discussion? Senator Klemm .
Thank you , Madam President. You know , I read most of the legislation on this and I agree with both sides, actually. I filed a motion to accept the Governor 's amendato ry veto because I think what we dve heard from every municipality is that it goes too far if we were to override the Governor, and I agree with that. I think it does dampen what local governments can do on public p roperty , on government lands . I think what we dve heard from -- from the opponents of this are correct , but also I think that we need to qive the protection that the Bar Association has asked for . And Senator Cullerton had come over and talked to me briefly about that . That really the absence of passing this , that the current law would almost be better to allow the Trial Lawyers and ehe Bar Association to Work with the Municipal League and the counties to craft: perhaps, some leqislation that would meet b0th of our concerns . Because what -- the tragedy at that swimm ing pool was -- was -- was avoidable and should have not have happened. So it's my sugqestion and recommendation that we do not 21 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29 , 1997 override the Governor's amendatory veto. I will not then call the bill to accept the amendatory veto . That would meet , least , the requirements that Senator Cullerton had asked as a second choice , to allow all parties to sit down and try to find a compromise on it. In the meantime, would still, at least, protect to that degree our municipalities and local government while that is being done. It seems to me , rather than p itting our two friends together on something we agree tor this would be a better compromise . So w ith that, I do ask that everybody , perhaps , who agrees with that position not support this particular amendment and motion and then I will not call that particular acceptance of the Governor 's amendatory veto . Thank you .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) We need your attention, Ladies and Gentlemen . Next speaker is Senator Butler .
Thank you very much, Madam President. Ladies and Gentlemen, want to rem ind us all of something . The Governor's veto does exactly what we were asked -- we asked him to do, and that is to take care of the specific case of the tragedy at the swimming pool. And I remind me -- I remind you that this is exactly what we were asked to do . Now , what 's being done here is to open up - disagree with Senator Cullerton - we dre opening up a floodgate . This is another one of kind of the MLawyers' Relief Actsyn because it -- it -- it does indeed open up, contrary to what he said. It 's like you know , what we 're facin: here asain is kind of like the piranha attack on a -- on Ehe Tor: Immuni*y Aet. Wedre being nibbled -- that bill is being nibbled to death , and I wish we had the quts enough, or somebody had the guts enough, to just totally kill that khing, rather than what Wedre doing now, merely nibblinq ik to death . Secondly , I want to quote from a letter here . It says : Governor Edgar app ropriately used his amendatory 22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29s 1997 veto to scale back Senate 843 so it would achieve no more than its intended purpose, that is alterinq the result in the Barnett case by requiring lifeguards to respond to emergencies of which they were aware. And the final paragraph of this letter is: In this era of heightened concern over unfunded mandates and their unfair impaet on the taxpayers, passinq this bill in its original form is particularly unwarranted. I urge you to accept the Governor's amending veto. And it's signed, Richard M. Daley, the Mayor of Chicago, who in his letter, as you read , points out the enormous cost that this is liable to entail . F rankly , I think this makes it too easy, absolutely too easy, to drag local government into court . Now , you know , they lre -- every time they dre dragged into court it costs money to -- to -- to defend the case . And again , contrary to what Senator Cullerton says, I predict this thing will indeed open up a floodgate, because it is -- it does, indeed, that. It takes away some of the p rotection that local governments have had because of the Tort Immunity Act and other things. So I - - there is a -- there is a great deal of evidence that supports the idea that this override is a bad idea . It's -- it's detrimental to local government. Indeed, I think it -- it will be very costly to taxpayers. This is an anti-taxpayer, pro-trial lawyer bill, and I think We ought ko take a good look at it. I would urge you to think twice about this and -- and vote No on the immunity -- or, on the override . I 1m sorry .
PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Further discussion? Senator Berman . SENATOR BERMAN ) Thank you , Madam President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. I 'm glad you called on my comments following former Mayor Butler 's conments on this bill . Let me suggest to you that What we are bein: asked to do by Senator Cullerton 's motion is to weigh and to vote on a certain level of responsibility - responsib ility 23 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997 - for government, as well as for citizens . For the record , I want you to know that this deals in a field in which my p ractice of law is concentrated . I understand the issues that are involved in this. When I'm not in this Chamberr I may be in court arguing these cases . So let me share w ith you what my experience and ''expereise'' - that's in quotes - may have on this issue. The reason I'm goin: to support Senator Cullerton's motion is because think that this motion and the bill, as we passed it, does what we 've been asked to do by our voters back home . And what is that? It does they don't send us down here to take sides with municipalities or w ith trial lawyers . They ask us to pass laws that make sense to them and to do what is right . And I suggest to you that the bill, as we passed it , without the Governor's amendatory veeo, is doing *he right thing. And what does that do? It says to every municipality that you should exercise your good judgment in running your cities and towns. What does that mean? It means that if you make a mistake, municipality , we understand ; we're not going to hold you responsible if you make an ordinary mistake. But if you make a willful and Wanton mistake, if you jeopardize the health of your constituentsr if you make a decision that is indifferent to the health and safety of your -- of the people khat use your facilities, you should be held responsible for your actions . Senator Dillard asked about the definition of the standard of care that's imposed on municipalities by this bill w illful and wanton misconduct -- or, willful and wanton conduct . Le* me tell you what the courts have defined that to be . It 's defined as a course of action which shows an actual or deliberate - actual or deliberate - inkention Eo cause harm or Which, if n6t intentional, shows an utter indifference to or conscience disregard for the safety of others or their property. What does that mean? It means if I'm a -- if I'm the mayor of of X town and I have a swimming pool that we run and I don 't hire 24 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Leg islative Day October 29 , 1997 lifeguards: that is an utter disregard , and everybody in my town expects me as the mayor to hire well-qualified lifeguards for the swimm ing pool that my town is going to run . That ds why the child that Senator Cullerton talked about died, and his parents should have been able to file a lawsuit and recover for the death of that child because of the utter disregard for the safety of the people and the children in that town . That 's What this bill addresses . If they hire a qualified lifeguard and that lifeguard isn 't there, that 's probably , in my opinion, not willful and wanton . They would have no exposure for that. But if they -- if they don't hire a lifeguard or they hire a lifeguard and don't tell them how to jump in the water and retrieve somebody that's drowning or how to provide CPR, they don't train them on how to do the job that they're supposed to do, that very well nay be willful and wanton conduct. That's what our voters expect of their elected officials . That 's what we dre expected to do when we pass laws to set certain standards . That 's all this bill does. That 's all does , Lad ies and Gentlemen . It sets a standard - a very high standard. In order to recover under this law, the plaintiff has to prove a very hiqh action of disregard or indifference, or a willful, deliberate intention to harm their constituents. That's tough to prove . I can tell you, it 's tough to p rove . But that 's what our voters expect us as elected officials to maintain . That 's what they expect their mayors in their towns to ma intain . I urge you to vote Yes to do the right thing, not for the trial lawyers and not for the municipalities . Do the right th ing for our voters and vote Aye.
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-XARIS) We have three more speakers . And the next speaker is Senator Cronin .
Thank you , Madam President . Just briefly, I I rise to make 25 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCR IPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997 a couple of declarations . First of all, like Senator Berman , 1, too , am a lawyer-legislator, and as a lawyer-legislato r and a part-time legislator , we are asked and it is pointed out in the Constitution of the Constitutional Convention that we 're suppose to brinq our experiences from the courtroom , others are suppose to bring their experiences from the boardroom or the classroom or the farm , and brinq it into this Body , and the Body is suppose to be better as a result of it . Now , share an experience in my professional career as a lawyer, as is Senator Berman . happen to be on the other side , though . And the question is : What is the conflict here? Doing the right thing is Ehe only thinq I can and would do , and doin: the right thing here may not please some of the people that represent -- or: that my firm rep resents . But I 'm here to tell you that I don 't think it 's a good idea for any of us as legislators to immunize or protect those Who may engage in willful and wanton conduct. I just canlt, for the life of me , fathom why anyone here would Want to protect that . And so I 'm here to do what I believe is the right thing and I urge a -- a favorable vote .
PRESIDING OPPICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Further discussion? Senator Hawkinson.
Thank -- thank you , Madam President . 1, too g rise in support of the motion to override this veto , this amendatory veto . I -- in my practice, I've seen the Tort Immunity Act operate from both sides , from the victim 's perspective, as well as from a school or a municipality ês perception . So as an attorneyz as we all are , I suppose in that sense we have a potential conflict of interest , and -- and I intend to vote my conscience. But I'd just like to bring one other aspect into this analysis of the Tort Immunity Act. The opponents, in many of the letters that we get, seem to misconstrue what the Tort Immunity Act is. In fact, contrarye I 26 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCR IPT 64th Legislative Day October 29g 1997 think , to an earlier speaker, we have been expanding the immunities recently . We haven 't been nibbling away at it ; we dve been expanding the immunities. And one of the areas where we have expanded recently is in the area of recreational property. And we have sa id whether it 's a -- a snowmobiling area or whether it 's a m unicipal park or whether it 's a gymnasium that is used for community events , that we want to immunize that municipal or local governmental function . But what do we mean by that? We have stated that what we mean by that is we 're going to immunize them from negligent conduct . And what have We done for recreational property? We 've said, ''We 'll immunize you, municipality, for negligene conduct, and we impose a willful and wanton standard .l' We have an exception which says if the conduck is Willful or wanton, then there is no more immunity . And we do the same thing with teachers in the School Code , years and years ago . If a teacher is supervisinq an activity and they are negligent, they have full immunity under the School Code, as well as under the Local Government Tort Immunity Act . But we also say , ''Teacher, if your conduct is willful and wanton r'' or nSchool, your conduct is willful and wanton , you don 't have immunity .'' That 's What the Act is. Now, there are a couple of exceptions eo ehae where *e give absolute immunity , and this wouldn 't even change all of those . The decision as to whether to provide supervision in the first place, unlike the -- the sv imming pool situation where other rules under public health and other things require the lifeguards, the Tort Immunity Act doesn 't impose any duties to supervise . And in fact, if a government decides that for their park property or others the best decision is not to provide supervision, they don 't have to . And there 's a separate Section , Which will not be affected in any way by this vote , that says your decision as to whether or not to provide that supervision is a discretionary decision and you will have , you do have , and you will continue to 27 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29g 1997 have absolute immunity for that decision . This affects a very narrow range of cases of willful and wanton conduct . And that is a standard that exists throughout most of the Tort Immunity Act and is no different standard than we dre attempting to clarify and impose w ith this bill.
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Further discussion? The last speaker is Senator Karpiel . J
Thank you , Madam President. Senator Cullerton -- I don 't know , maybe I need some help with this question from -- from all of you attorneys . I think one of the reasons that the municipalities and park districts and local governments are so afraid of this bill , particularly in my area , is because of a case that happened up in that -- in -- in there . And I don 't know , it must be a d ifferent Section of the Statutes that applies . But the Village of Hanover Park , which is not a very large community and certainly not a very wealthy community, recently had on its streets , one of its streets - I don 't know z it may have had -- I believe it had some construction going on . And I w ish I had a better nenory and could remember all the details . But at any rate , a fellow Who was very drunk , way over the -- Way over the lim it, got on his motorcycle and was riding on the road and he h it into a -- some kind of a construction siqn or barrier or something: fell off, and he was, in fact, injured very badly. He did not die , but I believe he may be paralyzed . And it was a sad situation, of course , but he sued the V illage and it went to court , and the V illage -- I mean , and he Was awarded -- and I wish a could remember, but millions and m illions and millions of dollars, that the residents now of Hanover Park had to have their property taxes raised to pay that award . It w ill be go inq on for somewhere like twenty years they lll have to be paying that. That certainly is a chilling experience fo r a1l the communities and 28 i STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29 , 1997 park districts . And then When they see a bill like this , think that's probably why they may... Yeah. Now, if you have - you lawyers here - have a response for that . But I do think that that was -- is part of -- one of the reasons in my area they dre all so worried about something that they feel is -- is making it too broad . W ithout the -- the Governor's amendatory veto , they feel the bill is way too broad , and I think they dre all concerned about falling into situations more easily r like Hanover Park . PRESIDING OFFICERI (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator Cullerton.
Yes . Thank you for raising that issue p and I w ill attempt to answer it. First of all, specifically, as you guessed : that fact situation is not covered by this Section of the Statute . This talks about a -- a failure -- an injury caused by a failure to supervise an activity on a public way . Okay? Secondly , I would suggest that it's probable that that lawsuit -- that that judgment was entered prior to the tort reform that we passed a few years ago. Admittedly, perhaps, not with my vote, but certainly that was -- that would have been affected by that . And I guess ph ilosophically , Senator, to respond to your question , I -- and the same thing is to respond to Senator Fawell 's question , when they Write you a letter and they say this is go ing to affect us in this dramatic way and you do a little research and you find out that theydre misinformed, they're just wrong, I -- don't know how else to respond to it , by saying that -- other than by saying we have an obligation to read what the bills do and -- and vote on the basis of what we know to be the case . And , you know , they -- they take this situation , they exaggerate it # they apply it to this case that it doesn 't apply to , and -- and hoW else can we respond, by saying, ''I'm sorry, youdre just not right.'' And that 's all I can -- khat 's all I can say . 29 STATE OF ILLINO IS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator Karpiel .
Well, Senator, the Way I read the language is that it's goin: from what is now total immunity to a -- to a restrieted immunity . I mean , they still now -- you have to prove wanton and willful . I see -- I realize that . But before , without this language , you don 't have ko p rove anyth ing . And so for -- in their eyes : this is too broad and -- and lets in the possibility of too many of these kind of lawsuits. I -- I 'm not here to arque w ith you on what youdre trying to do; I just am pointing out that I think the - - the local governments do havé a point and do have a concern .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Mr. Cullerton , to close .
Thank you, Madam President. First, let me just finish -- or start off by addressing Senator Karpiel's issue. Senator Karpiel, you 're right : There are cases, after we pass this law , where a municipality will be liable when they otherwise wouldn't be. And to that extent, if that 's why the villages are against itz we know why. But those cases where they're going to be liable are going to be very rare , and there are qoing to be cases where they ought to be liable, like in this case up in Zion where this young boy died when two lifeguards ignored pleas of -- of patrons to go on - - in and save him . Because , remember, unless we pass this law , those cases will not be changed and the outcome will not be -- will be the same . Now , Senator Klemm , I I appreciate the fact that you 've indicated you 're not goinq to call the motion to accept . because, indeed , believe me , the Governor 's amendatory veto is Worse than what the current laW is. He 's literally made it, in certain circumstances, where it would literally be harder to prevail than -- than under current law . But I want to tell 30 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29 , 1997 you, don't see us having any kind of a compromise here. I khink the issue is this vote right here . If you want to overturn this Barnett case , you have to vote Aye , beeause we 've already seen the Municipal League 's response . As I said , I introduced th is bill February 7th: March 12th, everybody voted for it, including ,you, because they didn 't say anything . We were here ready for 2nd Readings, we were here for amendments. What they did was they waited until we passed they went to the Governor and they got what they wanted from the Governor , and it 's no qood . It 's worse . So if you think the Barnett case is the wrong decision and you Want to override it, you have to vote Ves on this -- on this bill. And as said to Sena tor Pawell, I appreciate the fact that the municipalities, in good faith, are writing these letters. They just are takinq theylre taking examples that don't apply to this law and they dre saying -- they lre trying to create a horror story ko try to get us to vote No . That happens in -- with us on a lot of bills. And we have an obligation to read the law , see what the law really does, and and to respond to them . And then, finally, to -- to Senator Butler, let me just say that we -- as Senator Cronin very articulately said , we come in here with our own experiences. I happen to be a lawyer, but I don 't praetice in this area. I don 't do PI work. You happen to have been a mayor. Xou looked at it from the other point of view. You 're looking at your budget. ''What happens to our -- our village if we get sued?l' ïou know , I know you weren 't intend ing to be insulting . know you didn 't mean it , but please : please, don 't say this is the ''Lawyer Relief Act'' when we lre talking about situaeions where kids get killed by drowning and they try to find a lawyer to file a lawsuit because -- because of what happened was so wrong. This isn 't trying to get lawyers rich . My God, we 're not trying to vote for the trial lawyers . This -- and we lre not trying to vote against the municipalities . Think upon it as a point of view of a 31 STATE OE ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29 , 1997 parent or a grandparent and having your own child be the victim of some this of this kind of reckless behavior and realizing there 's no way out . That 's what we should look at when we look at how to vote on this bill, and for that reason, urge an Aye vote .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator Klemm, your name was mentioned in debate. I take it you wish to respond, and I would ask you to be very brief.
The only reason I wanted to respond is because when Senator Cullerton came over and talked to me about this very motion that he has and the one I have about acceptin: the Governor's amendatory veto , he had said that he would prefer that it -- it not pass if he fails in his effort. And I think he should fa il in this effort . Howeverr he did say - at least, my impression was that they would sit and work with the municipalities and the counties to see if they could find language if this does not pass on the override. And I said, l'Fine.'' Then now, just as he closed, he said there was no room for compromiser and that's confusing to me because in one hand he said we would -- or , we would look at trying to solve this problem because we dre al1 concerned about it and then in debate he closed by saying there was no room for compromise. And therefore, it makes me confused on whether I should call the bill or not . I tend -- intend to keep my word and I Would hope he would do the same .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator Cullerton , briefly .
Welle I would like to just clarify my position so... PRESIDING OFFICER I (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Briefly .
e e . senator Klemm doesn 't think that I 'm not keep ing my word . 32 STATE OF ILLINO IS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997 I thought you left the impression that we don 't have to vote for this motion, we can just sit down and -- sit down at a table and work this out next -- next semester. And my suggestion is: No. We qot to vote Aye for this bill right now . And my opinion is that there is no comprom ise , because We lve seen what the -- what the Municipal League 's plan is . They lve got it in their amendatory veto . That 's all I meant.
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator Cullerton has moved that Senate Bill 843 pass , the spectfic recommendations of the Governor to the contrary notwithstanding. This Will take three-fifths majority. Thirty-six votes. Those in favor, vote Aye . Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a1l voted who wished? Have a11 voted who wished? Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On that question, there are 33 votin: Aye, 21 voting Nay, l voting Present. And this bill, having received (sic) to get the required constitutional majority of three-fifths vote, is hereby declared lost . This motion is lost . Senato r... Senator DeLeo , for what pu rpose do you ... Senator Rea .
Thank you, Madam Presldent. We have a group of people in the gallery behind me that 's here on a call for education. They Ire with a Coalition for Active Legislative Leadership for Education , and it includes superintendentsz regional superintendentsr board members and teachers . And these people are here today, and not only from my district, from -- but from al1 over the State , and would like for them to stand up and be recognized at this time .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Welcome to the Senate . We dre glad you came . Senator O 'Daniel , for what purpose do you rise z sir? SENATOR O 'DANIEL : ' Point -- point of personal privileqer Madam President. 33 ! STATE OF ILLINO IS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLX REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29 r 1997
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) State your point , sir .
I also, in -- in the galleries to the rear, have educators here from all twelve counties that I represent down in southeastern Illinois , and I want to welcome them here , also .
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Welcome . We #re glad to have you here . Senato r Demuzio , for what purpose do you rise?
Point of personal p rivilege . '
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) State your point, sir.
Well, Madam President, ik 's not often that we have an opportunity to say h i to one of our former Honorary Pages, person who served here many years ago . However, today , he 's a successful young man . H is father used to sit to my left as the Senate President. His name was Tom Hynes. This young man used to be a Page for us# an Honorary Page . And he 'd go around and he 'd do errands and he'd look for coffee and things, and he would beg for ten-dollar tips . Well , he saved h is money . He went to 1aw school. And sure enough , he became a successful lawyer and he 's back to say thanks . Say hello to Tom Hynes ' son , Dan Hynes , an inspiring younq man .
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEQ-KARIS) Which one is he? Welcome to the Senate . Senator Trotter, for what purpose do you rise?
A point of personal privilege, Madam President.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEQ-KARIS) State your point, sir. 34 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29 r 1997
Yes. I would like to take this opportunity to introduce to the Members of this august Chamber one of the hardest working aldermen of the C ity of Ch icago , the alderman fo r the 7th Ward , Alderman Bill Beavers .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) B ill Beavers, welcome , sir . Welcome to the Senate . Jaime Pipenhagen and Nancy Guideone, from Senator Parker 's district office , request perm ission to take still photographs . Perm ission 's granted . Senator Myers , for what purpose do you rise , ma 'am?
Point of personal privilege, Madam President.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) State your point, Senator Myers .
I wanted to introduce the ladies who are sitting behind me , two of Whom have a birthday today , too . My aides: Debbie Staats, Sue Rennelsp Deb Monk; and Jana Lithgow, Who 's here visiting today with the Rural Bond (Bank) - she's an -- an intern. Thank you.
PRESIDING OFFICBR: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) We welcome you here . The l o 'clock committees are meeting at 2 p .m . eoday , I lve been informed by *he Secretary of the Senate -- the Assistant Secretary. Hold on just a minute, so we ean give you some more information. Senator Hawkinsong for khat purpose do you rise , sir?
Madam President, for purposes of an announcement .
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Hold on just a minute. Senator Hawkinson has an announcement to make. Let 's listen to the announcement .
35 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCR IPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997 Thank you, Madam President. The Judiciary Committeez which is posted for l p.m., will meet immediately after adjournment, in Room 400 .
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-XARIS) Thank you . Any further announcements? The other comm ittees will meet further right after the adjournmentp as far as understand . Senator Burzynski, what purpose do you rise , sir?
Thank you , Madam President. Eor the purpose of an announcement.
PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator Burzynski has an announcement . Let 's listen to h is announcement, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.
Thank you. The Licensed Activities Committee will be meeting in Room 2l2 immediately after adjournment. If a1l of the Members would please be very prompt, we should be out of that committee very quickly . Thank you .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) License Committee will meet after adjournment, in Room 212. Senator Demuzio , for what purpose do you rise , sir?
Madam President , might I inquire as to whak the remainder of the day looks like for the Members?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) If youdll give us just a moment, will answer your query. Is there any further business to come before the Senate? If not, Senator Myers moves that the Senate stand adjourned until 10 a.m., Thursday , October 30, 1997 . Does that answer your query , sir? Senator Demuzio . Senator Demuzio .
Why don 't we come back tonight, or something like that? 36 STATE OF ILLINOIS 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 64th Legislative Day October 29, 1997
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR GEO-KARIS) Senator Demuzio, you're out of order. Senate stands adjourned until 10 a .m ., Thursday , October 30 . Have a nice day . 37 REPORT: TIFLDAY STATE OF ILLINOIS 98/07/02 PAGE: 001 90TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY 10:01:09 SENATE DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX OCTOBER 29, 1997 H8-0932 FIRST READING PAGE 3 SB-0036 VETO ACTION PAGE 11 SB-0051 VETO ACTION PAGE 10 58-0368 7ET0 ACTION PAGE 11 58-0561 7ET0 ACTION PAGE 5 SB-0780 VETO ACTION PAGE 11 58-0805 VETO ACTION PAGE 12 58-08:3 7ET0 ACTION PAGE 13 SB-1103 7ET0 ACTION PAGE 9 SB-1208 FIRST READING PAGE 2 SB-1209 FIRST READIHG PAGE 2 sB-1210 FIRST READING PAGE 2 HJR-0035 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 2 SUBJECT HATTER SENATE T0 ORDER-PRESIDENT PHILIP PAGE 1 PRâYER-THE REVEREND DARYL FANSLER PAGE 1 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE-LED BY SENATOR SIEBEN PAGE 1 JOERNAL-POSTPONED PAGE 1 HESSAGE FROM STàTE SDPERINTENDENT SPAGNOLO PAGE 1 COMMITTEE REPORTS PAGE 1 MESSAGE FROH THE HOUSE PAGE 2 ADJOURNMENT PAGE 37