Illinois House Floor Debate — June 1, 1972

"The invocation this morning will be by Dr. Johnson."

"Mr. Speaker, ah.. Members of the House, our guest Chaplain this morning is Pastor William J. Nelson of St. Mark's Lutheran Church in Nokomis."

"Let us pray. Almighty God, source of all wisdom and strength, guide the deliberations that take place today in these Halls. Help us ever to make wise choices and proper use of our time. Forgive us all that we talk too much and think too little. Forgive us all that we worry so often and pray so seldom. In our dealings with each other, may we be gentle, understanding and kind with our tempers under control. O God, come into our hearts and make us sensitive to the sufferings of other people. Before reaching decisions, make us willing to ask what Jesus' would do. Then, give us courage so to act. May we so grow in grace that the sympathy we feel for friends may also be felt for strangers. Cultivate with us the grace of thankful, uncomplaining hearts, the grace for boldness and standing for what is right, the grace of self-discipline, the grace to treat others as we would have others treat us, the grace of kindness that wherever we go, we may take something of the love of God. Give us fullness of life, set free from fear and doubt that we may find new joy in our labors. All this we pray in Jesus name. Amen." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Hon. W. Robert Blair: "Roll Call for attendance. Messages from the Senate." 3.

"A Message from the Senate by Mr. Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker - I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has passed Bills of the following titles, in the passage of which I am instructed to ask the concurrence of the House: Senate Bills 1318, 1322, 1409, 1534, 1561, 1575. Passed by the Senate May 31, 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker - I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has concurred with the House in the passage of Bills of the following titles: House Bills 4101, 4175, 4359, 4360, 4631. Passed by the Senate, May 31, 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary."

"Committee Reports."

"Mr. Hunsicker, from the Committee on Agriculture, to which Senate Bill 1501 was referred, re- ported the same back with the recommendation that the Bill do pass. Mr. Regner, from Appropriations, to which House Bill 4349 was referred, reported the same back with Amendments thereto, with the recommendation that the Amendments be adopted and that the Bill, as amended, do not pass. Mr. Regner, from the Committee on Appropriations, to which House Bills 4201, 4373, 4468, 4622, 4650, 4662 and 4663 were referred, reported the same back with the recommendation that the Bills do pass. Mr. Regner, from Appropriations, to which Senate Bills 1338, 1359, 1527 were referred, re- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  ported the same back with the recommendation that the Bills do pass. Mr. Regner, from the Committee on Appropriations, to which House Bills 4112, 4452, 4626, 4630, 4647, were referred, reported the same back with Amendments thereto, with the recommendation that the Amendments be adopted and that the Bills, as amended, do pass. Mr. Cunningham, from Cities and Villages, to which Senate Bills 939, 1411, 1449, 1515, 1516, 1517, 1518, 1519, 1520 were referred, reported the same back with the recommendation that the Bills do pass. Mr. Cunningham, from Cities and Villages, to which Senate Bill 1538 was referred, reported the same back with Amendment thereto, with the recommendation that the Amend- ments be adopted and that the Bill, as amended, do pass. Mr. Springer, from the Committee on Pensions, to which Senate Bill 1461 was referred, reported the same back with Amendments thereto, with the recommendation that the Amendments be adopted and that the Bill, as amended, do pass. Mr. Springer, from Pensions, to which Senate Bills 1126, 1127, 1413 and 1458 were referred, reported the same back with the recommenda- tion that the Bills do pass. Mr. Henss, from High Education, to which Senate bill 1500 was referred, reported the same back with the recommendation that the Bills do pass. Mr. McDevitt, from Judiciary - Division I, to which Senate Bills 1373, 1454 were referred, reported the same back with the recommendation that the Bills do pass. Mr. McDevitt, from Judiciary - Division I, to which Senate Bills 1381, 1436 were referred, reported the same back with Amendments there- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  to, with the recommendation that the Amendments be adopted and that the Bills, as amended, do pass. Mr. McDevitt, from the Committee on Judiciary I, to which Senate Bill 1471 was referred, reported the same back with the recommendation that the Bill do pass. Mr. Neff, from Transportation, to which Senates 1157, and 1391 were referred, reported the same back with Amendments thereto, with the recommendation that the Amendments be adopted and the Bills, as amended, do pass. Mr. Neff, from Transportation, to which Senate Bills 1450 and 1512 were referred, reported the same back with the recom- mendation that the Bills do pass. No further Committee Re- ports."

"The gentleman from ah.. McHenry, Mr. Lindberg."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct the attention of the floor to the Republican Balcony to my rear, the Students from Lake Zurich Community ah.. Schools are with us today."

"Alright.. House Bills Third Reading. House Bill 4642."

"House Bill 4642, an Act making appropria- tions for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Illi- nois Legislative Council. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Bureau, Mr. Barry."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, it's a good Bill. Wish I had a copy of it in hand. Actually, there's nothing more than ah.. very small percentage increase GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  6. of about ah.. $5,000 for three ingrate increases including the Social Security and Pension benefits. It's the annual appropriation for the Legislative Council. And, I recommend its passage."

"Discussion? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 144 'Ayes', and no 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4643."

"House Bill 4643, a Bill for an Act making appropriation for a science research unit and consulting panel. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Burea, Mr. Barry."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is ah.. an additional appropriation to the Legislative Council. It's about $25,000 for ah.. our contribution to a scientific effort for the Legislature as a separate entity. And, I recommend its passage also. And, I might add Mr. Speaker, what a difference a day makes."

"Ah.. is there discussion? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished. The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 135 'Ayes' and no 'Nays' and this Bill having received a Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 2412."

"House Bill 2412, an Act authorizing Govern+ GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  mental Units to provide emergency ambulance service, andso- forth. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman ah.. from Johnson, Mr. McCormick."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I believe everybody has look over 2412. And, I was asleep, to be honest about it. Ah.. 2412 simply authorizes Local Governmental Units, by referendun, to provide ambulance service in areas where they can't provide it or to supplement local ambulance organizations or undertakers where it is necessary to maintain ambulance service. It's strictly by referendum. And, I know of no opposition to the Bill. I'd appreciate your vote."

"Is there discussion? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Oops.. One moment. The gentleman from Christian, Mr. Tipsword."

"Would the gentleman yield for a question, please?"

"He indicates he will. Proceed."

"Representative McCormick.""

"Yes, Sir."

"Ah.. I regret that I was ah.. having a discus+ sion on ah.. on an Amendment to another Bill just a minute ago. And, I wonder if you would explain to me just exactly what this does for ambulance services? And, also, would you tell me that this applies to those Federal requirements to GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  ambulances that would knock out many of the local ambulances throughout the State of Illinois?"

"No.. No.."

"Thereby, denying ambulance service."

"No. What you're confused with are the Bills that we tabled the other day. If you.. If you noticed, we tabled the Bills that you're talking about the other day. All this does.. All in the world this Bill does, it has nothing to do with us meeting requirements of Federal Funds. This Bill simply allows local communities where they need to supplement to continue operating where they're quitting or where the City can vote a tax on themselves to.. to provide ambulance service if no one else will provide it. This is not involved in what we discussed as far as the regulations and requirements that they have to have, two people on and all that bunch of stuff."

"Does any part of this Bill apply to any part of the Federal Regulations from the Department of Transporta- tion?"

"No, Sir. If it does, I haven't seen it. And, my information is that it doesn't. That it is strictly a permissive Bill. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the Ambulance Package that we were talking about the other day, you know, that we tabled."

"Well, I note in here that it says that it is declared a public policy. I see that one of the things is to regulate and limit the number of ambulances it services, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  9. fixed rates for those services. And, 'Any regulation relating to the design or equipping of an ambulance or the qualifica- tion of an ambulance shall not be inconsistent with the Ambulance Service Act'."

"Well, that means that...."

"Well, doesn't this really apply then?"

"The.. The way I understand this, if the City of Vienna, for instance, would have to provide ambulance service and they voted to do it, then the City of Vienna could establish the rates, and.. andsoforth. That's the way it was... That's the way I understand it."

"Well now, do we have this so called, 'Ambu- lance Service Act' that is set forth in this Bill at the present time?"

"You only have the...."

"It's on the.. If you'll look on the ah.. last Page, Line, that whole Paragraph applies to those regulations relating to this and it must not be inconsistent with the 'Ambulance Service Act',"

"Under the 'Illinois Hospital Licensing Act'."

"On the last Page? Is that what you're talking about? It says there... It says, 'That any regulation re- lating to the design or equipping of an ambulance or the qualifications of an ambulance attendant shall not be incon- sistent with the 'Ambulance Service Act' or the regulations or standards promulgated by the Department of Public Health thereunder'." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  C. L. McCormick: 10. "Well, let me back up a minute. My understand- ing was, and unless I'm misreading it, ah.. this was only for the purpose of allowing Local Governmental Units to main- tain or subsidize an Ambulance Service. Ah.. this has nothing to do... If it does, I'll take it out of it. I'll guarantee you that."

"Would... Would you be willing to hold this to give us an opportunity to examine this fully and be absolutely sure that....."

"If.. If you'll do it today... Will you do it today?"

"I don't whether we can do it today or not. We'll sure try to."

"Okay..."

"But, I'll tell you. I'm very much afraid that the way it stands right now this is a backdoor application of those regulations that are going to deny most of the little towns in the State ambulance service and all of the rural areas."

"Well, if that would be true, I wouldn't be for this Bill and you know that. And, I told you the other day that I wouldn't. And, I'll be glad to over it with you. We tabled the Bills that.. that took care of this situation."

"I know that you tabled the ones that applied to this specifically but this is applying to those same things, I think, in the last Paragraph."

"Mr. Chair... Mr. Speaker, I'll take it out GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  of the record, if it's alright with you, and I'll try to work it out with them."

"Alright.. This is a real takeout. Right? This is a real take out."

"I know it is. I don't give a damn. They don't want any ambulance service, why, let them go ahead."

"4085. One moment. The gentleman from Johnson, Mr. McCormick."

"There's no purpose in even working with it. I, thereby, ask unanimous consent to table this Bill and.. and just forget it. It was ah.. worked out with all of these other people. And, I would just like to table my Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Does the gentleman have ah.. leave? Alright.. We'll table it."

"House Bill 4085, and Act to provide for the ordinary contingency expenses of the Illinois Law Enforce- ment Commission in the Office of Governor. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Regner."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. this is the annual appropriation for the ordinary contingent expenses of the Illinois Law Enforcement ah.. Commission and it appropriates a total of $234,300 for opera- tions and $3,360,000 ah.. for grants. And, this is a $650, 000 reduction from the original request. And, I asked for a favorable vote." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  12.

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Harold Washington."

"Will the Sponsor yield for a question or two? Ah.. Representative Regner, I have tried to get a Report from the Illinois Law Enforcement Commission for the past year. But, I understand that only the Report for 1970 is out. Is there anyway that I can possibly get a breakdown, hopefully, before we vote on this Bill? Is it possible that I can get a breakdown as to just where the funds, how they were expended, these funds were expended by the Law Enforce- ment Commission for the fiscal year '71?"

"Ah.. Representative Washington, I can assure you that I'll personally deliver a copy of that to you within the next day or two as soon as I can get ahold of the Direc- tor."

"Alright.. One other question. As you recall, we passed out of here, I was the Chief Sponsor, a Witness Protection Act and the Governor signed it into Law last December. That Bill provided.. That Law provides that ah.. the Illinois Law Enforcement Commission shall make funds available for the protection of witnesses and those people who report crime and those people who bear witness in criminal matters as well as their families. And, I've been in communi- cation with the Director on this situation. And, I have a feeling, and I don't want to be unfair, that their temporizing unnecessarily in coming up with a program to dispense these funds to the various State's Attorney Offices. Do you have GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  13. any information on what the prospective plans are, if any?"

"Ah.. no, I don't right off the top of my head, ah.. Representative Washington. But, again, I'll do the same thing on that ah.. request and be sure that you do have an answer and get a listing of.. of ah.. that ah.. within the next couple of days."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, may we have a little order, please? Ah.. Representative Regner, my last question is this. I.. I think that the questions that I have asked are seri... are very important. I think this Body should have some idea of about the millions of dollars which are being expended... Federal dollars which are being expended by this Department. And also, obviously, we should know something about the three million plus that we're voting out on this appropriation. Would it be an undo burden upon you, Sir, to ask you to hold this Bill until such time as I can talk to you about some of those matters? For example, I read in the paper just several days ago ah.. that the Department was proposing expending various funds to certain local divisions of Government. And, I was overly concerned with the fact... or I was concerned with the fact that too much of that money seemed to be going into the direction of hardware, guns, cars and not enought into what I consider to be really crime prevention. I don't want to be unfair to the Department. I'm going to assume they're trying to do their job. But, it seems to me that this House should go over it rather thoroughly into the question of how they're appropriating these Federal GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  dollars. And, I request.. humbly request at this point that you could hold this Bill until tomorrow so that we could sit down and talk about it."

"Well, Representative Washington, I'll hold the Bill until tomorrow. But, just in.. in answering you, your Staff, Democrat side of the Appropriations Committee studied this Bill for ah.. well over a month now. They had many of these same questions. And, apparently, they were satisfied with the answers they did receive."

"Well, I haven't been privileged with that in- formation. And so, I will get the information from ah.. our side as well as yours, if possible. I'd appreciate it if you'd hold it."

"Okay.. Ah.. Mr. Speaker, could I ah.. take this Bill out of the record for today?"

"Alright... Then, two to nothing now. Alright.. The gentleman will take it out of the record. 3774."

"House Bill 3774, an Act in regard to the Lawrence County fair and to provide appropriations in con- nection therewith. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Lawrence, Mr. Cun- ningham."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, 3773 is a very small Bill, but it's vital to the use of Lawrence County. It should be noted that it has bipartisan support. Representatives Brummet, Keller, Blades and Brandt have been GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  added. To coin a phrase, it's a very good Bill. You'll be glad that you voted for it. We'll appreciate your affirma- tive vote." 15.

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Shea."

"Ah.. will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Ah.. Mr. Cunningham, at the time that this Bill was in Committee, you indicated that you were going to extend an invitation to all of the Members of the House and the Senate and I haven't gotten my invitation yet."

And R. D. Cunningham: "I am delighted that you have reminded me of this, Representative Shea. You're welcome to County Lawrence's perpetual. There will be free food and lodging for all Members when they come to the Fair this Summer. as the incomparable Sherod Marsh pointed out to you in the Appropriations Committee, you have a free pass to get into the Fair."

"Thank you."

"The gentleman ah.. from Union, Mr. Choate."

"Ah.. will the Sponsor yield for one question?

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Cunningham, ah.. I understand that this is bringing about the creation of a new County Fair. That I understand. But, if I read the Bill correctly on the amounts appropriated, they're receiving more money than like Counties surrounding Lawrence County at the present time as GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  16. far as the subsidization of ah.. County Fairs are concerned. Is that not correct?"

"Yes. Ah.. Mr. Leader, the.. there is a slight increase over other Counties but every beginning is hard. All parties are agreed that in future years, it'll be scaled back to that of comparable Counties. And, it should be noted that any premium that are expended in accordance with the terms of the Bill will be allocated to other Counties sur- rounding. So, there will be no disparity of the State's contribution."

"I think you've already answered my next question. First tell me how much approximately their receiving than comparable Counties in and around that Area."

"Representative Lechowicz brought that ques- tion up in the Appropriations Committee and it was thought that it could be as much as $10 or $11,000 additional. I do not have the exact figure. There was some ah.. contention by the Fair people, from the Department of Agriculture, that it was in that neighborhood, the amount. But, all are agreed that in future years, there will be no disparity."

"But, as I said, in future years then, you will go back on the same percentage as the surrounding Counties and other County Fairs throughout the State."

"We assure you of it."

"Any further discussion? The ques... The gentleman care to close?"

"No. But, we would appreciate an affirma- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  tive vote, Mr. Speaker."

"Alright.. The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 144 'Ayes' and 1 'Nay' and this Bill having received a Constitutional majori- ty is hereby declared passed. 4086."

"House Bill 4086, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Governor's Office of Human Resources. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 4086 is the ah.. annual ah.. ordinary appropriation for the Department of the Governor's Office of Human Resources. Ah.. it has been amended ah.. down the sum of $223,000 ah.. both by ah.. by agreement in the Appro- priations Committee. I'd appreciate a favorable vote."

"Discussion? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Barnes."

"Would the ah.. Sponsor yield to a question or two, please?"

"He indicates he will."

"Ah.. Mr. Telcser, ah.. one of the items that I see under the budget here is ah.. an increase in travel allowance time... increase in travel time. And, I was wonder- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  ing, were you familiar with the report that appeared in the Chicago Sun Times, May 23rd, which one of the items listed there pointed out that there had been excessive use of travel time by some of the Staff Members ah.. of this Agency and that ah.. a full determination was not ah.. specifically spelled out on ah.. purposes of the travel and ah.. the accomplishments of those ah.. particular Staff people. Are you familiar with that?"

"I'm.. I'm familiar with it, Representative Barnes, to the extent that I, too, read that ah.. article in the Sun Times. Prior to ah.. ah.. to the Sun Times Article, I knew that there was... I knew that there was a Report but I wasn't really that familiar with it. However, I would point out to you, and I believe Representative Lechowicz would affirm this, that part of the cuts in the $223,000, I believe, were in travel. So, we did reduce ah.. to ah.. to an extent the dollar amount, which I don't recall right now, the amount of travel which the Department originally did ask for."

"I see. Ah.. another question. I was wondering also, as I understand and to the best of your knowledge whether or not there has been, as I understand, there was a portion of the ah.. budget that would concern itself with proposals ah.. ah.., at least, part of the ah.. ah.. Agency's charge, would-be proposals to the Legislature concerning ah.. programs ah.. to upgrade ah.. minorities in ah.. various areas. Now, do you know whether or not there have been any proposals? Do GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  you know whether or not there have been any proposals from this Agency ah.. along those lines?"

"For.. For what, Representative Barnes? I couldn't hear you."

"Ah.. Accord.. According to the Reports."

"I understand there have been proposals in the field of Special Education."

"Have there been any Legislative proposals that you know of?"

"Yes, there are. I have a Bill myself, ah.. which they're proposing dealing with bilingual scholarship programs. I believe that Representative Schlickman also has a Bill dealing with Special Education ah.. which were pro- posed by this Agency."

"Well, has there been any ah.. Those are ah.., I believe, excellent things that you have listed. But, has. has there been any proposals in terms of upgrading people, in terms of employment ah.. as far as this Agency is con- cerned? I.. I feel that this should be their number one priority. As I understand, you will resort to this, to uplift and upgrade the minority. I was wondering what, if any kind of program, that they are going to have offered to do just that very thing. We.. We have ah.. a great problem as I'm sure you agree, a great problem with welfare. And, here's an Agency that is charged to try to uplift people so that we can eliminate some of that welfare headache that we have. I'm wondering just specifically, if anything, what they've did 19. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  in that particular area."

"Yes, Representative Barnes, ah.. there are a number of areas in which the Governor's Office of Human Resources has been involved relative to this subject which you.. you allude to. I can just cite a few from memory right now, one of which, of course, was the recent ah.. ah.. Veterans Job Fair, which unfortunately had some disruptions. But, the Governor's Office of Human Resources was involved in that. The Governor's Office has worked very closely with ah.. Federal Agency to help fund minority business enterprises so to give minority ah.. individuals a greater opportunity to go into business for themselves. But, the Governor's Office of Human Resources has also been involved in a variety of ah.. Health Programs or Health Fairs, ah.. to see to it that health services are being made available ah.. to minority groups and to the inner-city. Ah.. I cite these from memory really. I have nothing in front of me. But, I know from personal ah.. ah.. experiences that these are some of the areas in which they are involved."

"Well, according to the ah.. ah.. outline listed in the budget book, one of the things that you just hit on, in terms of uplifting minority enterprises, was a ah.. organized trip to ah.. to Guiana, I believe, Guiana and Nigeria. And, I see that it admits it has ah.. ah. created ah.. ah.. ah.. in terms of roughly $50,000,000 in long term.... But, I'm just wondering how many people was involved in that and how many benefits.. would benefit from that? And, at what cost GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  would that be to the State? Because ah.., according to the ah.. budget book and according to the authorization that you're asking for, ah.., I'd say, better than two-thirds of what you're asking for would be for salaries. And, I'm wondering just how much expertise can they put into that kind of Bill when you're using ah.. such a large portion for salaries?"

"Well, I.. I don't know if I can specifically answer that your.. your question, Representative Barnes, other than to say ah.. that the ah.. the cost of that particular trip was not out of State Funds but out of Federal Funds, I believe. And, there was just, I don't know, it was in the last few days or in the last week, there was an announce+ ment made of a contract entered into with a Chicago Minority Group ah.. with Nigeria... with a Nigerian Firm. That con- tract has been firmed up and signed and it was just announced, I understand, in the last few days. That project did bear some fruit for the minority group."

"Well, I.. Okay.. I can agree with that. But, my problem is, now, in a case like this, if there is only one firm or two firms that's going to benefit from a project like this, it seems to me, an awful waste of money when we're dealing with such a large problem. And, one or two firms, you might really want to get to the heart of what you're trying to do."

"Well, I ah.. again, can only respond by saying, Representative Barnes, before we walk, we've got to crawl. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  22 Ah.. we help fewer numbers when we start. And, as time goes by, and hopefully, the Legislature recognizes these problems and will give adequate funding to that Agency so that they can spread out and give more assistance to larger numbers of people who, indeed, are in need of good health."

Accord.. E. M. Barnes: "Well ah.., let me ask this question then. Again, according to the O.E.O. Report, ah.. part of the ah.. charge of this Department was to set up an Advisory Committee that would involve people ah.. minorities would be members of that Committee, I believe, three are supposed to be on that particular Committee. And, according to the Report, this Committee either/or for some reason has not been meeting regularly. And, the minority people, that were supposed to be involved, have not been able to ah.. effectively ah.. ah. serve on the Committee due to the lack of a meeting. And so, therefore, they didn't put anything into it as was set up by the charge of this particular Department."

"Well, Representative Barnes, let me respond in this fashion, if I may. Ah.. you have rightfully asked me questions relative to this appropriation. And, you've done so based on your premise that the O.E.O. Report is Gospel. Ah.. you read that Article, as you ah.. indicated. You know full well that our Agency ah.. disputed to a great extend the validity of that Report. Now, I do not go on the premise that that Report is necessarily true in its entirety, certain- ly. Ah.. I think, therein lies the reasoning for your ques- tionning and the inability, perhaps, on my part to come up GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  23. with a specific definite answer in each instance. Now, I disagree with that portion of the O.E.O. Report as does the Director of the Agency. And, we discussed this at great length in the Appropriations Committee and we did come up with cuts in various areas which were, in a sense, a response to those portions of the O.E.O. Report and a response to our respective Appropriations Staff Committees, that we came up with cuts totally two hundred twenty-three ah.. ah.. millions of dollars... two hundred and twenty-three thousands of dol- lars. So, that is the only way in which I could respond to that, Representative Barnes. But, please, believe me, ah.. and I know you appreciate this, there's always a great competitive feeling between inter-governmental agencies. And, I suggest that that O.E.O. Report is not necessarily a valid one in its entirety."

"Ah.. Okay.. Thank you. May I address myself to the Bill, Mr. Speaker?"

"Proceed."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I believe that ah.. Can I have just a little order, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Speaker, could I have just a little order, please? Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I think that I have the 0.E.O. Report here that I have been citing from. And, I'm sure that some of the Members would be interested in going into it. This Agency, last year, received an increase in appropriation of some five hundred thousand dollars. And, this year, they're asking for another increase to the tune of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  24. somewhere around four hundred thousand. The Job Fair, that was cited here, as my understanding, was sponsored by the Bureau of Employment Services. And, I don't know just how this is involved with ah.. the Governor's Office of Human Resources, but as I understand, this was put on by John Linton ah.. Agency. And, in terms of the ah.. minority businesses, I think, there's a serious question there. There's a serious question there as to whether or not this small Agency is doing.. doing the things that ah.. is outlined here in this appropriation. I think that some questions need to be answered on this appropriation. I can't see that this Agency has effectively ah.. measured up to the outlines that they have set forth in asking for these large sums of money. I think there's a serious question here. I think that, especially in.. in this time, when we are trying to upgrade minorities and we're trying to involve them in the mainstream of our Society, that an Agency who asks for an appropriation of some 1,8 million, I think, we should scrutinize it much more closely. I think that the program should be clearly defined and I think some questions should be answered prior to the passage of this appropriation. I believe that some serious questions where raised in the O.E.O. Report. And, I believe for this reason, Mr. Speaker, that we should either/ or hold this appropriation until some of these questions have been answered. Or if we can not do that, I would respectfully ask the Members of the. House to vote 'no' on this appropria- tion." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  25.

"Further discussion? The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Lechowicz."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this Bill was discussed in its entirety in the Appropriations Committee. As the Sponsor has indicated, the question as far as the O.E.O. Report was fully discussed both in Committee and in private conversation. The Bill has been amended down $223,000. The O.E.O. Report was basically critical in the certain violations as far as personnel procedures. The Director of that respective Agency has corrected that situation. He has made a complete reply to the O.E.O. Report. I would ask that the Members of this General Assembly vote this Bill out. It has been reduced to its proper level. I think that it's a new Agency. There were errors initially. The man is trying to correct them. I would ask for the support of this Bill."

"Further discussion? The gentleman from ah.. Macon, Mr. Borchers."

"The light wasn't on... Something is wrong with this light. I'm recording now. Mr. Speaker and Fellow Mem- bers of the House, I would just merely like to say just a couple of words. If this program is necessary, it should be more concentrated and not spread and scattered as it is today. I'm afraid I'll have to agree with ah.. some of the criticisms that I've heard. After all, I think there's real troubles today for this program and they should concentrate on it, would be job training programs, educational programs, health GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  26. programs and civic responsibility programs. That's where the emphasis should lie. Ah.. I feel that this money is not being properly used and ah.. carried out to its best extent. So, therefore, I'm going to vote 'no'."

"Alright.. The gentleman care to close? The question is, 'shall House Bill 4086 pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this ques... The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Barnes."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, ah.. as I pointed out earlier and as was pointed out here by some of the comments ah.. when this Bill was being discussed, I'm not opposed to the appropriation as such. But, I am opposed to some of the things that have gone on with this particular Agency. I think there are some questions that should be answered. I know of a number of local organizations that have tried to get in touch with this particular Department to do some of the things that they say they're interested in doing. These people have not gotten replies that I feel is efficient. And, I think, that these questions... This leaves this Department open to some questions and, I think, these should be answered. And, for that reason, I'll vote 'present' on this particular Bill."

"The gentleman from ah.. Barnes, ah.. 'present'. Ah.. Cook, Mr. Harold Washington."

"I agree with the remarks of Representative . Barnes. I think some very pertinent questions have not been GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  27. answered by the Sponsor of this Bill. I'm not opposed to the concept of the Bill or of the Department, obviously, but, in spite of the fact that these questions have not been fairly answered, I would like to be recorded as voting 'present',"

"On this question, there are 126 'Ayes', 5 'Nays'. Mr. Thompson from Cook."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I concur in the thinking of Representative Barnes and Washington. I'm not opposed to the Bill as such. But, I think, some serious questions should be answered. And, for that reason, I would like to be recorded as voting 'present'."

" 3 'Present'. And, this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4089."

"House Bill 4089, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Liquor Control Commission. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Morgan, Mr. Rose."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House ah.. this is the Bill for the annual appropriation for the Illinois Liquor Control Commission. The ah.. appropriation of Committee Amendments ah.. reduced the Bill... The Bill was reduced by $47,500. The total appropriation now is approved by the Appropriations Committee ah.. and by the House on Second Reading, is $831,100. I ah.. urge your sup- port of this measure."

"Is there discussion? The question is, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  28. 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there are 154 'Ayes' and no 'Nays' and this Bill having received a Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 40.. Alright.. 4091."

"House Bill 4091, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Fair

Employment Practices Commission. Third Reading of the Bill. Hon. W. Robert Blair: "The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Genoa Washington."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is the annual appropriation for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Fair Employment Practices Commis- sion. The Bill is for the appropriation of some $664,000, an increase over the appropriation last year of about $150, 000. It's had rather a torturous passage through the Appro- priations Committee. It was amended on two occasions and restored ah.. to the original amount. The rough spots developed primarily on the.. my Colleagues on the other side of the aisle and they worked them out. And, I know of no opposition to the Bill and ask an 'aye' vote for its passage. Thank you."

"Discussion? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Arrigo."

"Mr. Speaker, may I, on a point of personal privilege, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  29. take this opportunity to introduce the Mother of our distinguish Colleague, William Laurino, and his Aunt, Mrs. Betty Laurino? It's Mrs. Anthony Laurino and Mrs. Betty Laurino, Mother and Aunt of our very distinguished Colleague, who are sitting in the rear Balcony, Mrs. Laurino and Mrs...."

"On this question, there are 146 'Ayes', and 1 'Nay' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4093."

"House Bill 4093, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Office of the Commissioner of Banks and Trust Companies. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. McAvoy."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, House Bill 4093 make the appropriation for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Commissioner of Banks and Trust Companies for the fiscal year beginning July 1st, 1972. There has been an increase in the appropriation ah.. due to the adding a new employee, six new ah.. trainees because of ah.. twenty-five new banks that have opened in the State of Illinois. Also, they picked up ah.. an increase for the Board's salary. And, there is some new computing system that they will have to use. I'd appreciate favorable consideration of this Bill."

"Further discussion? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 152 'Ayes' GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  and no 'Nays' and this Bill having received a Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4097."

"House Bill 4097, an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Illinois Veterans' Commission. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Sevcik."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 4097 makes the appropriation for the Illi- nois Veterans' Commission, totalling $4,467,500, as amended. And, I ask for your favorable support."

"Discussion? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 149 'Ayes', and no 'Nays', and this Bill having received the Constitu- tional majority is hereby declared passed. 4140."

"House Bill 4140, an Act to make an appro- priation to the St. Louis Metropolitan Area Airport Authority. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Lehman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. This is an appropriation for the St. Louis Metropolitan Area Airport Authority. It's a new appropriation and the same as it was last year. It passed ah.. the Appropriations Commit- tee without a dissenting vote. And, I would appreciate your favorable support."

"Discussion? Further discussion? The GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  31. question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 161 'Ayes', and no 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4180."

"House Bill 4180, an Act to make an appro- priation to the City of Peoria. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from ah.. Peoria, Mr. Day

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Bill appropriates the sum of $2,290 to the City of Peoria as the State's share of a street improvement on East Hines Place, which is financed by a special assessment. This is property which is owned by the State. And, the Street in front of it is being improved, being paved and the property owners are being assessed ah.. for thirty-three percent of the improvement. So, this appropriation amounts to the ah.. State's share ah.. of that improvement. The Bill passed the Appropriations Committee ah.. with an unanimous vote. And, I would appreciate your support."

"Any further discussion? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 149 'Ayes' and no 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4185."

"House Bill 4185....!!" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Hon. W. Robert Blair: "The gentleman from Cook, ah.. Mr. O'Brien, have a question? Oh! D. J. O'Brien.. 'aye' on that last Bill."

"House Bill 1485, an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Office of Planning and Analysis in the Executive Office of the Governor. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Schlickman "

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 4185 appropriates the amount of $162,800 for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Office of Planning and Analysis in the Office of the Governor for the fiscal year beginning July 1, 1972. This Bill was reported out of the House Appropriations Committee without a dissenting vote. And, I'd sure appreciate your support."

"Further discussion? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Barnes."

"I had a question that I wanted to ask the Spon- sor of the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Well, you're going to have to be on your toes now. This is about the second or third time, you know, we've called the Roll. You have two minutes... You have two minutes to proceed to explain your vote."

"Well, Gene, the question that I have to ask was ah.., perhaps, you could explain it to me. Exactly, what is GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  33. the set up for this particular Agency. I understand that this is something new. Isn't it? And, exactly, what is the charge and what will they be doing?"

"Oh! The gentleman ah... from ah.. Cook, Mr. Schlickman, in explaining his vote."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, in response to the explanation of vote by the distinguished gentleman from Cook, the Office of Planning and Analysis is designed to provide the Governor and his Staff with professional planning, research and analytical capabili- ty. It's designated as the official State Planning Agency and is responsible for improving the State Planning System and coordinating the individual functional planning efforts of the various Code Departments. The Office of Planning and Analysis is designated as the State Clearing House for carry- ing out the responsibilities of reviewing and commenting upon applications for Federal Funding as required."

"The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 129 'Ayes' and 8 'Nays' and this Bill hav- ing received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4245."

"House Bill 4245, an Act to make a supple- mental appropriation to the Department of Personnel. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Sevcik."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 4245 makes a supplemental appropriation of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  $70,000 to the Department of Personnel for payments to State Employees under the provisions of the Workmen's Compensation Act. This originally was $125,000. It was amended to $70,000. And, I ask for your. favorable support."

"Any further discussion? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 154 'Ayes', and no 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4249."

"House Bill 4249, an Act to make an appro- priation to the State Library Building. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from ah.. Sangamon, Mr. Jones."

"This is an appropriation for the.. to commence the construction of the State Library. The original appro- priation was $900,000. It has been reduced back down to $200,000 which is a reappropriated amount from the last ah.. the appropriation of last year. I move its... for a favora- ble vote."

"Discussion? The question is, 'shall House Bill 4249 pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  35. will take the record. On this question, there are 159 'Ayes and no 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4253."

"House Bill 4253, an Act to make an appro- priation to the Secretary of State for State grants for public library systems. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Richard Walsh."

"Mr. Speaker, ah.. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 4253 is the annual appropriation ah.. for grants to the public library systems in the State of Illinois. This represents an increase over fiscal 1972 of only $20,000, And, that's based ah.. primarily ah.. is due primarily to the increase in population over 1972 of approximately 100,000. people. I urge the support of the House."

"Is there discussion? The question is,.. The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Juckett."

"Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield for a couple of questions?"

"He indicates he will."

"Do you have the breakdown for the North Suburban Library District?"

"Ah.. I don't have it ah.. by library district. No, I do not. I can say that the ah.. the grants this year GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  36. the ah.. the area and per capita grants this year are ah.. are just roughly $100,000 more than last year. So, I'm sure that it would be just about the same thing as last year."

"What.. What percentage of the operating ex- penses do these grants cover of each of the library districts?"

"Well, I'm sorry. I don't have that information either. This is ah.. an appropriation that has been continu- ing for some time and its been running, if you refer to the Budget Book, roughly $7,000,000 per year."

"What's the purpose of these grants?"

"Well, the purpose is ah.. is well stated in the ah.. Secretary of State's Budget Request back in ah.. 19 ah.. It was originated in the 74th General Assembly. Since ah.. public education is ah.. Since the State has a financial responsibility to promote public education and since the public library is a vital agency serving all levels of educa- tional process, we, the General Assembly, at that time, de- clared that it was the public policy of the State to encourage the improvement of free public libraries. And, that's exactly what this is for. This is to encourage the improvement in the utilization of free public libraries in the State."

"Well,... Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd like to shed a little light on how this system works. On the North Suburban Library District, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  37. the appropriation or the expenses for that District amounts to some $175,000 a year. And, the particular District is to coordinate all of those member Library Districts within that Northern District. But, the actual grant from the State far exceeds the $175,000. And, I've asked this question each time the appropriation comes up. And, they tell me the pur- pose of this is to build a flush-fund from which they can then build buildings for the North Suburban District as it is for every other District. So, we are, in fact, appropriating far in excess of their actual operational cost. We have no idea how much their buildings will cost, how much per foot, how much they're paying. There is no control over this so called flush-fund. And, we just merely appropriate much more money than is necessary to operate for the benefit of some people who are then going to build buildings as memorials to them. And, let me just tell you a little bit about how this system does work. My daughter happened to need a book that was not in her School Library at Main South. So, she went to the Park Ridge Library and she asked for the Book. And, they said, 'Well, we're sorry. We don't have the book. You'll have to go to some other Library to find it'. Now, they happen to be a member of the North Suburban Library District. And, if they're a member, they're supposed to have borrowing privileges from some thirty or forty Libraries that make up GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  38. this District. And, all she has to do then is to request the book, and the Library says, 'Okay.. Within a day or so, we will have that book because we'll get it from one of the other Libraries'. But, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,. it doesn't work that way. They're not doing it. They're buying big vehicles. They're spending lots of money. And, I might add that last year, out of their $175,000 expense, they spent about $10,000 on books. And, the rest was all for high-priced, worthless, inefficient Library experts to run the Libraries and they're not doing it. So, I think, this money could be well saved and spent for the school children of the State or for other ideas. For instance, I understand that the City of Chicago is short of money for their schools. They could use $7,000,000 for their school system where it could be well spent or we could use it for other items. So, I would urge.. I would plead with you that we must stop this wasteless spending and let's do something constructive with this money. And, I urge a 'no' vote on this Bill."

"The gentleman from ah.. Christian, Mr. Tipsword."

"Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I could ask Repre- sentative Juckett a question, if he would respond?"

"Well, it's a bit unusual. But, he appears ready." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

39 R. F. Tipsword: "Representative, I was intrigued by your remarks. And, did I understand you correctly that the District in which you live is ah.. using a part of these funds or all of them or the major portion or something to accumulate a fund with which they may, in the future, build buildings?"

"That is absolutely right. As of last year, they had some $1,200,000 in deposits which was made up of excesses of these funds which have been appropriated for them in the past several years."

"So, this is accumul.. accumulated by them over more than a two or three year period?"

"That's correct."

"And, it was just funds... their grants out of this total appropriation?"

"That's correct. They ah.. received more than twice what they actually spend and the balance is stashed away for them to do with whatever they wish. And, their goal, I believe, is to ah.. build a building."

"Do you know if this is being done in any other parts of the State?"

"My understanding is that it is treated similarly throughout the State. And, the amounts ah.. over and above their actual cost of operation is fairly similar throughout every District in the State." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  40.

"Is there no requirement that this money be accounted for?"

"Well, I don't know. The Sponsor of the Bill doesn't seem to know where the monies go or how they are accounted for."

"Thank you, Sir."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Schlick- man."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the distribution of these grants to the various Dis- tricts within the State is according to a formula that's contained in the Statute over which the Secretary of State, as a State Librarian, has no control. And, the formula is one that's based on population rather than on need of the District, rather than on a program or a budget that the District itself has developed and submitted to the Secretary of State, as State Librarian, for consideration of the amount of the grant. And, as the gentleman from ah.. Cook has stated, there are surpluses that have developed within some of these Districts. And, there is no restriction as to the use of this money. This money can be accumulated and ultimately ah.. used for capitol improvement purposes. It would seem to me, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, that by next year, the enabling act should be amended, thereby, changing GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  41. the formula. In fact, eliminating the formula which is based on population and rather requiring the individual Districts to submit to the Secretary of State, as State Librarian, a program for the following year and that ah.. the grant be based ah.. on that proposed program rather than the arbitrary population ah.. figure. I'm going to vote for this Bill, Mr. Speaker, appropriating this amount because, I think, ah.. it is consistent ah.. with the Legislation of.. that underlies the program. But, next year, ah.. I would hope that the enabling act is changed so that we do have fiscal responsibili- ty ah.. and more efficient and effective use of State money in these Library Districts."

"The gentleman ah... from Lake, Mr. Pierce."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I want to confirm ah.. what Mr. Juckett said. The Library in my town, after taking a careful look at the North Suburban Library District, determined not to join that District. And, every since that time, it's been discriminated against by the ah.. State Librarian. This has been true of Elmhurst, Cicero and other Libraries that have not joined a Regional Library System because of the poor way in which they're operating. Now, when they figure the population, it's bad enough they figure the population in reimbursing the Regional Library Systems, but they count the population of Cities in Areas that GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  42. aren't even in and haven't joined their Regional Library Dis trict. The City of Highland Park, with 33,000, determined not to join that Library District... Regional Library District that Mr. Juckett was complaining about because it was so poorly run. But yet, our population is counted in the money that goes back to that District. And, our Library can't ever borrow books from the State Library here in Springfield because by regulation they refuse to loan books to Libraries.. Public Libraries in the State that don't join one of their Regional Library Systems. I think ah.. the whole 'Library Act' needs redoing. I know that Representative William Walsh had some good Bills last year, some of which passed, that partially corrected this situation. And, I agree with Representative Schlickman, that we've got more correcting to do because these Regional Library Systems are not serving all of the people of our State."

"The gentleman care to close?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. I would have to agree with some of the gentlemen who have spoken that there are some shortcomings in the manner in which we fund ah.. local Library Districts. Ah.. however, I don't think that this is the time or the place to.. to scuttle the entire program. Ah.. I would like to parenthetical- ly answer Mr. Juckett, that the North Suburban District is GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  getting out of this six million five hundred thousand which is Area and per capita grants some six hundred and seventeen thousand dollars. Ah.. however, I would like to say that the Libraries, I think, ah.. at least those with which I'm familiar in ah.. in West Suburban Cook County and in Chicago, I think, are something we, in the State of Illinois, can all be very proud of. The Chicago Public Library ah.. System is.. is an excellent system for ah.. a City of its size. And, I know the ah.. Library System in.. in the town of which I reside, Oak Park, is a model system. Ah.. I think that if there are some problems, ah.. they can be met in another way. I would be happy to join with those who have spoken in opposi- tion to this Bill to try to remedy some of the shortcomings that we have in this per capita in Area Grant approach. But, for the time being, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I think we should pass this Bill and I urge the support of the House."

"The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?". All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. The gentleman from ah.. Christian, Mr. Tipsword."

"Mr. Speaker, I.. may I be recorded as 'present' on this Bill?"

"Record the gentleman as 'present'. Ah.. the gentleman from Bureau, Mr. Barry." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

44 T. Barry: "'Present'."

"'Present'. The gentleman from Adams, Mr. McClain.. 'present'. The gentleman from McLean, Mr. Bradley. 'present'. The gentleman from Lake, Mr. Pierce.. 'present'. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Caldwell.. 'present'. The gentle- man from LaSalle, Mr. Fennessey.. 'present'. The gentleman from Madison, Mr. Calvo.. 'present'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question,... William Walsh.. 'no'. Carrigan.. 'aye'. Palmer.. Palmer.. 'no'. 109 'Ayes' and 16. 'No's' and 8 'Present' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4254."

"House Bill 4254, an Act to make an appro- priation to the Secretary of State for return or refund of fees and taxes. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Pappas."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 4254 appropriates $485,000 in the Road Fund and $15,000 in the General Fund for return of fees and taxes, returnable when an application is refused and rejected or any fee is collected in error. I would move for its adoption."

"Further discussion? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  45. and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 152 'Ayes', and no 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4256."

"House Bill 4256, an Act to make an appro- priation to the Secretary of State relating to proposed Constitutional Amendments. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Regner.".

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 4256, appropriates $400,000 to the Secretary of State for expenses connected with printing, distributing and mailing of proposed Constitutional Amendments to be voted on in November 1972. And, I'd ask for a favorable vote."

"Further discussion? The gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich."

"Ah.. would the Sponsor yield? Ah.. Repre- sentative Regner, which Amendments are proposed in November 1972?"

"Ah.. John, we don't know ah. of any yet that are going to be on. But, this has been the practice in the past, to provide the monies for the Secretary of State's Office if there are any proposed. There will be nothing expended if there are no Constitutional Amendments on the ballot in Novem- ber." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  46.

"Further discussion? The gentleman care to close? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 144 'Ayes', and 2 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4266."

"House Bill 4266, an Act to amend Section 29 of the 'State Printing Contracts Act'. Third Reading of the

"

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Schlickman."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 4266 provides that House and Senate daily Journals shall be available to persons who apply for them upon the payment of a subscription fee of $50.00 per year. As you know, the activities of the Legislature are reflected in two publications, the Legislative Synopsis and Digest and the Daily Journal. Presently, the Digest is the only one that is available to the public upon a subscription basis. The 1970 Constitution more firmly establishes the right of the public to be informed of Legislative activities and proceedings. House Bill 4266 implements this right. I solicit your support."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Lechowicz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  yield to a question or two?"

"He indicates he will. Proceed."

"Where will the money collected from the sale of these subscriptions go? It's not specific in the Bill."

"The sum of $40,000 is appropriated to start up the program. And, the $50.00 subscription fee will go to the General Revenue Fund."

"Will there be any additional cost in the printing?"

"The sum of $50.00 is intended to cover hand- ling and postage. As to whether or not there will be any additional printing costs, remains to be seen, Representative, since this is ah.. a new program."

"How many subscriptions are projected?"

"At this time, I have no information or basis for anticipating the number of subscriptions whether it will be equal to the subscriptions of the Digest more or less, I do not know. I do know this, ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, that, since the introduction of this Bill and its consideration by the Legislature, a number of people have indicated ah.. their interest in the passage of the Bill so that they may have available to them on a con- tinuing basis, the Journals."

"Well, my only concern, Gene, is the $50.00. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  48 Will it cover the additional costs in the printing in conjund- tion with the dollar amounts in mailing. And, I don't think we should be subsidizing any longer for the number of Journals. Actually, your Bill would eliminate the restriction of the sale on our copies. And, I don't know exactly how many copies you're going to be printing now."

"The $50.00.... The $50.00 subscription fee was suggested by Mr. Bobbitt of the Reference Bureau who has had years of experience with the printing of the Digest."

"How many copies is he going to be printing?"

"Presently, the Statute provides that 700 copies of the Journal ah.. should be printed."

"But, your Bill repeals that."

"The Bill repeals.. strikes the existing sealing ah.. as it also restricts the provisions that the Journals may be printed on tinted paper which, I don't believe, it ever has been."

"Well, how many copies do you intend on print- ing? It's the third time I've asked the question."

"Representative, as I've indicated previously, at this time, no one has any idea as to the number of requests or subscriptions that will be submitted to the Clerk of the House and the Secretary of the Senate. By the ah.. $50.00 subsciption fee, we are guesstimating. I should say that the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  49. printing of the Digests, while there is a fee of $25.00 per year, the State.. the Legislature is subsidizing ah.. the printing of the Digests."

"Mr. Speaker, may I address myself to the Bill?"

"Proceed."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, actually, I do not quarrel with the concept of the Bill per se. But, when we're removing the total number of copies that we're going to be printing, we have a Statute provision of 700 copies now, and we ask what the projected subscription rate is going to be, and there is no ah.. anticipated answer in that area. And, in turn, we remove any restriction as far as the total number of copies to be printed, we can actually have 1,400, 2,100, depending upon what the situation will bear. I think that we should have a restriction as far as the total number of Digests that we intend on having printed due to the cost involved. And, in turn, I would ask that the Members of this General Assembly consider this Bill very seriously. I think it's a Printer's Bill and it should be voted accordingly."

"Further discussion? The gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich."

"Would the Sponsor yield to one question?"

"He indicates he will. Proceed."

"Ah.. Gene, ah.. I thought about this on some GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  50. of our printing. And, I thought that this might be the time to ask... this might be the time to ask ah.. one of the Sponsors relative to the Bill on printing. I know some of the ah.. Executive Agencies ah.. are going to recycle paper. Ah.. maybe if the cost ah.. would allow, maybe we could write into this Legislation and construe an Amendment when it gets into the Senate, that we ought to ah.. print the Journals on recycled paper ah.. and mandate it into Legislation. I think the Legislature ought to be taking steps in this direction.. Ah.. if the Agencies aren't doing on ah.. on a voluntary basis, ah.. maybe we, as the Legislature, ought to be mandating this."

"In response, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, to the comments made by the gentleman from Lake, my only comment would be, that the cost of re- cycling at this time is more expensive than ordinary printing. And, my concern is ah.. common ah.. to the concern of the gentleman from Cook, ah.. who indicated ah.. his reservations on the basis of cost. I, too, am concerned about that."

"Further discussion? The gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, we got to concern, which was previously expressed, ah.. in terms of the possibility that it may be that ah.. there will be some subsidization of the distribution of the Journal. We GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  subsidize everything from ah.. highways ah.. to public health to library districts. It seems to me that, if the public's right to know is important and if the activities of.. of this House, of this General Assembly are important, and we are, in fact, the public body, then we have a responsibility to see that the public is as fully informed as possible. And, if the cost of our distribution of our Journals gets to the point where only the wealthy and the rich organizations can afford to ah.. be informed, then, gentlemen, I think, ah.. this is a sad day, sad day for the State of Illinois, and a sad day for the General Assembly. And, I would urge your support of this Legislation."

"Further discussion? The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Schlickman, to close."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, as I indicated at the offset, there are only two publi- cations that report on the activities of the Legislature, one is the Digest, the other are the Journals. Presently, the Digests are available on a subscription basis. The Journals are not. This Bill, House Bill 4266, for the first time, establishes a procedure, whereby, interested citizens can subscribe to the Journal and be better informed about the proceedings of the House, the Senate, the General Assembly, ah.. in general. It is new. It is start-up program. We've GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  relied on the best information available ah.. with regards to cost. As I indicated, by the passage of this Bill, we implement that Section of the 1970 Constitution which further emphasizes, promotes the right of the citizenry to be informed of Legislative activity. I solicit your support of House Bill 4266."

"The question is, 'shall this Bill pass? All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 93 'Ayes' and 18 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 430... 4255."

"House Bill 4255, an Act to make an appro- priation to the Secretary of State for the administration of the Illinois Governmental Ethics Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from ah.. McHenry, Mr. Lindberg."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, this is the ah.. appropriation for fiscal ah.. '73 for the ah.. Secretary of State to ad- minister the ah.. Illinois Ethics Act. I believe the amount ah.. is ah.. $83,000. Let me just check that. What is it? $82,000. I'd appreciate the support of the Membership."

"Further discussion? The gentleman from GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Cook, Mr. Berman."

"Ah.. would the Sponsor yield? Ah.. George, ah.. in view of the existing injunction, what ah.. would be the status of this appropriation ah.. considering the ah.. pending Court decision?"

"Ah.. it's my understanding that, if the ah.. injunction is upheld and we do not act ah.. in this regard and pass a supplementary act, that the appropriation would not be spent."

"Thank you."

"Further discussion? The gentleman from McHenry, care to close?"

"Just a favorable vote, Mr. Speaker."

"All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 149 'Ayes', and no 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4308."

"House Bill 4308, an Act to make a supple- mental appropriation to the Department of General Services. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. J. J. Wolf."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, ah.. this Bill is a $400,000 deficiency appropriation for the Department of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  54. General Services. Now, it's a little bit mis.. misnomered being called a deficiency. Now, what this is for, ah.. the Department of General Services, right now, operates ah.. a revolving funds. It serves the State on automobiles and other vehicles. Now, these Agencies, of course, pay for their gasoline and oil repair charges and other related charges from their appropriations. So, the money does go back int o this. The money is deposited to the State's Garage Revolving Fund ah.. which is then used to purchase bulk gasoline, repair parts, etc., and for the overhead cost of ah.. operating the garages. There was also an increase of $128,000 in insurance costs over fiscal 1971 for expanded coverage to more States on tires. And, that's also why this money is needed."

"Discussion? The question is, 'shall this. Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 133 'Ayes' and 1 'Nay' and this Bill having received a Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. Brinkmeier.. 'aye'. Phil Collins.. 'aye'. 3776."

"House Bill 3776, an Act to amend Section 18 and to repeal Section 19.2la of the 'Revenue Act of 1939'. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from ah.. Stark, Mr. Nowlan." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  55.

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, House Bill 3776 would accomplish two purposes. It would, first, classify all personal property used exclusively in the business of farming and remove such property from assessment and taxation. Would, secondly, reenact the classification of one automobile and one household of furniture as presently removed from taxation, reinact that under the new terms of the Constitution to insure its continued effectiveness. Farmers in Illinois pay higher property taxes than their cohorts in any other of the cornbelt States. The Illinois farmers pay property taxes which are a higher percentage of both their gross and net income. The average property tax, paid by farmers in Illinois, equals forty percent of his.. of his net income. Farm income in Illinois is on the average, 70 percent of that of non-farm income. And yet, farmer's prices in Illinois, in Iowa or in Indiana are set by National and International Markets, lest, we are forcing farmers in Illinois into higher operating costs of business than farmers in other States, even though the prices, which they receive, are the same as set by Markets beyond the control of Illinois Farm Producers This proposal has been drafted to meet the objections of the Lake Shore Auto Parts decision which invalidated our 1970 Action amending the new Illinois Constitution and invalidating our abolition of the personal property tax to individuals. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  The Lake Shore case held that classification of property, based soley on the type of ownership, was invalid. But, that classification itself was valid if also the nature and use of the property was considered. Agriculture has traditionally been considered by both the U.S. Supreme Court and the State's Supreme Court as a reasonable classification. I believe that this proposal meets existing Constitutional guidelines established by our State Court. And, I believe, that it redresses a wrong under which farm operators have uniquely and for too long. suffered. This proposal has bipartisan sponsorship. And, I believe, that this House should act favorably upon this property tax relief proposal."

"The ah.. gentleman from Cook, Mr. Yourell."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the gentleman yield for a question or two?"

"Proceed."

"Can you tell me, what justification there is to exempt personal property in the form of farm equipment, and- soforth, that differs in any way with the kind of equipment employed for personal use as for profit and gain in any other business or commerical developement in the State of Illinois?

"I believe, Representative Yourell, that farmers are in an unfortunate and unique situation in that their GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  57 pricing mechanism can, in no way, be controlled by the in- dividual farm operator. But, instead are set by National and International Markets where to some extent, a businessman is able to set his prices on the basis of local ah.. situa- tions and cost of operation. And, therefore, because of this uniqueness and because of ah.. a deeply felt need to try to enact personal property tax relief, which does meet the Lake Shore Auto Parts decision guidelines, that this is both a responsible and reasonable proposal."

"Well, I.. I understand... Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand the reasons behind the Legislation. And, al- though you might say that the farmers are in an unfortunate position, because of the uniqueness attached to that Industry, but, I don't think that that can possibly be construed as a legal point in developing a Constitutional question. Now, I would ask you this, ah.. I'm in the Restaurant Business and I want to know if my grills, my booths and my counters and all of the things I have for the conduct of these activities can be ah.. construed, under your Bill, as being exempt? Now, if it's not, then I can't clearly understand how you can say that this Bill is Constitutional and sound."

"Your grills would not be exempt under this pro- posal. And, again, I'm forced to return to both the State Constitution and the very unfortunate Lake Shore Auto Part's Case which ah.. invalidated the 1970 personal property on individuals which said that, 'Classification was reasonable if it were based on the nature and use of the property and not GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  soley on the type of ownership which is construed to be the nature...."

"One.. One.. One moment, please. For what purpose does the gentleman from ah.. Vermilion, Mr. Craig, ah.. No?....."

"I just want to talk on the measure."

"Oh! I.. I'll recognize you. Proceed."

"In responding to Representative Yourell, I was suggesting that. classification, according to reasonable classes, ah.. would be, as.. as many of us have read in the Lake Shore Case, acceptable. And, that Agriculture has been considered traditionally a reasonable classification. And, I can cite you both ah. U.S. Supreme Court decisions and.. and various State's Supreme Court decisions to.. to uphold this as being within the.. within the guidelines of the Equal Protection Clause, the Fourteenth Amendment. It is not to say, Representative, Yourell, that ah.. that I feel that you may not.... that the personal property tax, placed on the Restaurant Tour, is not also inequitable. But, I think, it's a unique and a greater inequity upon the farm operator because of the lack of ah.. capability he has for determining his prices."

"One more question, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed."

"Representative Nowlan, in your judgement and in the interpretation of this Bill, if a farmer raised ah.. race horses and bred race horses for participation in.. in events GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  59. which would eventually produce a purse, would that race horse and all of the things that depended upon the development of that animal be exempt under this Bill?"

"In response, Representative Yourell, ah.. I would only be able to say that, if that were determined in.. in any subsequent Court test to be within the traditional definition of 'Agricultural', that it would be exempt."

"The gentleman from ah.. Lake, Mr. Mati- jevich."

"Ah.. would the gentleman yield to one ques- tion? Ah.. Representative...."

"Yes, he indicates he will."

"Alright.. Ah.. Representative Nowlan, ah.. the second part of this Bill, all of the discussion has been on the exemptions of the farmer.. personal property. The second part of this this, I'm sure that you're trying to do through this Bill, what the people voted on some time ago as to individuals, and eliminating the personal property as it affects individuals. Ah.. has anybody considered the possibility, because there are many families now who have two automobiles, instead of the household of furniture and one car, exempt... exempting household furniture and two auto- mobiles? That way, I think, we would ah.. eliminate the personal property as it affects individuals. And ah.., the second part of this question is, had you also considered the possibility, rather than having this is one Bill, ah.. having the one Bill relate to individuals and then a separate Bill GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  60. as to the farm personal property. And, then, I think, we would, at least, guarantee the Constitutionality of one of the Bills? Could you answer those two ah.., Jim?"

"To the first question, that has been discussed by some persons. Ah.. Representative Day has House Bill 3801, I believe, which would ah.. add to that ah.. classification, ah.. pick-up trucks which are used ah.. for personal purposes. I don't know if there is anything else alive that would simply add to automobiles or.. or all automobiles used for personal pleasure. As this was drafted, it simply restates the language of what does exist in.. in Law. And ah.., at this juncture, I.. I don't think this would be reasonable to propose changing that. As to your second question, Section IV of this proposal does state that if any one Section of this Act were declared Unconstitutional, that the remainder of the Act should not thereby be affected. And so, I.. I hope that would ah.. provide that ah.. one Section would not ah.. be invalidated because another has so been. Ah.. I believe, there might be another proposal ah.. which also attempts to reenact the household furniture and automobile provision subsequent to the 1970 Constitution."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representative B. B. Wolfe."

"Will the gentleman yield for a question or two?"

"He indicates he will."

"Ah.. the definition ah.. in your Bill, 3776, states that ah... 'Farms shall include live stock, diary GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  poultry, fish, fruit, grain and truck farms'. And, I think, you amended it to include some thing else.".

"That is correct."

"I beg your pardon. Am I right?"

"We.. We amended it to include horticultural activities which has been inadvertently left out."

"And, also, 'plantations, ranches, ranges, orchards, maintained for the production of crops'. And also, 'for the subsistence of livestock'. And, the term 'livestock' in- cludes, 'cattle, hogs, horses, mules, donkeys, andsoforth and so on'. So ah.., in reality, the answer to ah.. Representa- tive Yourell's question is that a horse farm would be exempt under this Bill. Am I correct in that ah.. assumption?"

"I.. I guess that would be ah.. a fair interpre- tation, Representative Wolfe."

"Alright.. Now, ah.. in.. in view of that, also ah.. horticultural and hothouses and.. and flower shops, under these definitions, contained in this Bill, that ah.. line of business would also be exempt. Am I correct in that assumption?"

"If that falls within what is considered to be the business of managing a farm or in the business of farming, as stated in the first sentence of.. of Paragraph A of Section 18 there.. Yeah.."

"So, nurseries.. nurseries would be ah.. included for exemption, that line of business. In other words, the broad definition does not quote just include a farm as we know it, but also ah.. other areas of livestock and GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  agricultural and and ah. and nursery ah. productions. Is that correct?"

"I would respond that in seeking interpretations of this definition, one would have to look at previous and traditional as provided in other Statutes and in U.S. De- partment of Agriculture classifications. And ah.., this is broad and would have to be interpreted in light of what has been traditionally been considered the business of farming, Representative Wolfe. I just can't be more responsive than that."

But B. B. Wolfe: "This is my objection, ah.. Representative Nowlan is that you don't refer to the traditional definitions. the Bill itself, all the Court can do is to interpret. the language of the Bill. And, where the Bill spells out the definition, the Court is bound by that definition and not by what is traditional or what is referred to in other areas of the Law. Now, number two, would this affect in any way the subsidies which farmers are now getting from the Federal Government in.. in the area of non-production of crops of which there is a great furor right now both in this State and in Washington ah.. concerning these subsidies? Would this Bill affect that in any way?"

"No.."

"Would it affect... Would it be affected by the Bills that we have passed out of this House relating to the exclusion ah.. $7,500 exclusion of personal property? Would this be in addition thereto or would that be credit against GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  this exclusion? How would that work?" 63.

"Is both of those, both this and that Bill were passed by the General Assembly, the Governor has stated he would sign them both. Representative Blade's Bill might be defined as an Exclusion or an Exemption Bill, a Deduction Bill whereas this is a Classification Bill. Therefore, ah.. the Deduction Bill would ah.. technically be separate from this and ah.. on top of, if you want to look at it that way. But ah.., since this would classify that personal property used in farming ah.. coupled with a household and automobile there, in nearly every case would be no further ah.. personal property to be considered."

"Thank you."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive J. J. Wolf."

"Would the gentleman yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Ah.. Representative Nowlan, as you know, I repre- sent a Chicago District and I don't have any farms there, but I was wondering ah.. I have a number of European Immigrants who might raise mushrooms down in their basement. And, I wonder if they qualify?"

"Representative Wolf, you.. you pose an excellent question. And, I.. I honestly can't give you a definitive answer. But ah.., it is possible that ah.. certain aspects of that ah.. might be considered business of farming."

"Thank you." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  64.

"And, thus I would appreciate your support in that you might have farmers in your District, Jake."

"Is there further discussion? The gentleman from Cook, Representative Shea."

"Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Ah.. in my District, I have two ah.. race tracks. And, as I read this Bill and as I understand racing, that many of the purses come out of the Agricultural Premium Fund So, we certainly are running horses for the improvement of the breed, as I understand parimutuel betting, etc. So, are you telling me that, under this Bill, all the race horses and race horse equipment, etc., is going to be excluded from personal property tax?"

"No.. I think the first sentence of Sub-Paragraph A which ah.. deals with the question of used exclusively in cultivating, operating or managing a farm and that such an operation would not be included within the definition of a 'farm'."

"Well, aren't horses included in this?"

"Horses as relate to the business of farming."

"Well, if a man has a breeding farm for horses, where.. where would that be excluded?"

"It would be excluded beyond the point of sale from the farm, I would ah.. contend."

"But,... But, we're not sure. As I remember the question raised by Representative Yourell was very similar. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  And, you answered him in the affirmative. And, I'm just won- dering if maybe we aren't opening up the flood gates with this Legislation and giving the race track ah.. horse owners some little added extra incentive. And, certainly they're in a lucrative business. Ah.. I.. I Don't you think we ought to do something about that?"

"From what I've been able to read, the persons who own shares in the race tracks who are in the lucrative business not the persons who are in the business of.. of raising horses for those tracks which ah.. horse farm owners have apparently diminished in numbers in this State dramatical- ly in recent years."

"Alright.. My next question, ah.. since we can't seem to find out the answer to the last one, is where is the replacement revenue to Local Units of Government?"

"In the companion, House Bill 4433, which I ah.. would hope would be called next."

"Now, how much does that appropriate?"

"That provides for a dollar for dollar replace- ment for ah.. Local Governments which ah.. would lose revenues under this and appropriates five million dollars in fiscal year '73 to pay a portion of that revenue which would be lost."

"How.. How much do you anticipate the loss to Local Governments could be?"

"Approximately twenty-five millions of dollars."

"Well, what.. what if some future General Assembly finds itself with a short and doesn't appropriate in fiscal GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  66. '74 the twenty million dollars? What guarantee is there that Local Government will get their money back."

"I think the guarantee resides within the trust which must be placed within this General Assembly. I would point out, there have been no direct appropriations made relative to the other personal property tax relief proposals which have passed from this House. And, this is the first one, as I understand it, which has a direct appropriation ah. in it related to revenues lost." G. W. Shea; "Well, what I'm afraid of, Jim, is that the new Governor of this State is going to find himself with fiscal shorts. And, if we don't appropriate the money this time, ah.. it looks like instead of five million dollars in fiscal '74, we're going to have to appropriate forty-five million dollars. And, I'm a little bit concerned about the State of our fiscal affairs now."

"The present Governor is committed to meeting the revenues lost. And, of course, I contend that he will be the Governor elected in November. The other contender has been promising everything to everybody. And, so, I don't see how we could lose either way." G. W. Shea; "It seems to me that you're promising everybody everything in this Bill and getting ourselves in a position that if, you know, the pie in the sky doesn't come through, up go Real Estates Taxes again." If not,

"Is there further discussion? the gentleman from Stark, Representative Nowlan, to close the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  debate." 67.

"Very briefly, Mr. Speaker, there are a couple of other personal property relief Bills which are, at the moment, buried in its Sub-Committee. I would hope that we ah.. would pass this Legislation which would, hopefully, stimulate the Senate into meeting a responsibility to address itself to the committments this General Assembly has made to provide personal property tax relief. And thus, I ask your support for House Bill 3776..

"The question is, 'shall House Bill 3776 pass?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', and the opposed by voting 'no'. The gentleman from Vermilion, Representative Craig, to explain his vote."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I want to ex- plain my vote here. I've served here for some time and I've seen a lot of political gimmicks or you name it. But, I believe this is one of the biggest political gimmicks perfor ated on the people of Illinois that I've seen in a long time. When you go out to campaign, your campaign promises is one thing, but when you come before the General Assembly with Legislation of this kind, trying to fool the people of Illi- nois, I think, that's going about as far as you could possibly hope to go. I remember that in just the last Session, when Representative Joe Fennessey had a Bill in to help pick up the loss of revenue for this.. that we were going to lose by these per.. personal property taxes, I think, it was around sixty million dollars, the Governor said, 'they didn't have GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  68. the money'. And, they held that Bill and they wouldn't let it get out of Committee. But, it's funny to me that they've come up with this type of Legislation. Ah.. yes, I'm going to vote for it. And, I'll say this, it's strictly conflict of interest when I vote for it. But, I also want to say this. I hope that all the Members here, that's voting 'aye' up there, they will have the courage, regardless of who comes back, but when they come back in these seats and revote to replace this revenue, will there be that many 'green' lights up there? Because, if they're not up there, and this Bill becomes a Law, and I take my personal property taxes off as a farmer, and if we don't pass the revenue to replace it, I don't know of any place where it would count except on Real Estate Taxes. And, what I'm saying to every real estate owner, home owner in the State of Illinois, for these per- sonal property taxes that have been taken off, we're going to raise your real estate taxes. I've been campaigning and I've had people running against me, making promises about what they would do. And, I've often said to some of the people that have made these promises, maybe they're not going to be elected and have to live and have to carry out the promises they're making. And, I feel that all of this re- placement, coming in '73 and '74, is nothing more than say, 'elect me one more time and we'll see what we can do for you then'. But, as I say, I think, it's got most everyone in a real bind and they'll probably vote 'aye'. But, I still maintain that this is a very irresponsible way to do business." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  69.

"The gentleman from Cook, Representative Hyde."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'm supporting this Bill. Ah.. concededly, it ah.. discriminates in favor of farmers. But, I think, if we look ah.. over the history of taxation in this State, we will find that the farmers ah.. have paid disproportionately large share of the personal property tax over the years. The Law has been en- forced in their territory. It has been assessed and it has been collected. And ah.., certainly ah.. that group, having borne the lion's share of the burdens over the years, deserves some Legislation to assist them. Now ah.., the passing Legis- lation that assists ah.. specific groups, is not unusual to this Legislature or to any Legislature. We've passed School Aid formulas that have density factors, ah.. that have weighted factors and specific groups do get specific con- siderations. I think that this is really just elementary justice in this area. And so, I'm happy to support it even though the farming community in my District is miniscule. Thank you."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representative Shea."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, if the Majority Leader feels that twenty-five million dollars is miniscule, ah.. it's a little bit more than I've got in my pocket, maybe he can write the check. The Legislation, the idea is good if you want to help the farmers. And, I GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  think, we all do. But, what about the real tax... the real estate taxpayer in these Districts if that replacement doesn't come forth? Will we have a Bill down here then to help them? So, I'm just going to vote 'present' on this Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"The gentleman from Christian, Repre- sentative Tipsword."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen, what the Majority Leader said is very true that there's been a dis- proportionate share of the personal property taxes borne by the farmers. But, there's also a disproportionate share in ah.. most of the hundred and two Counties ah.. of the real estate taxes that is borne by the farmers. I think that it'$ most regretable that in this Bill that we don't have a re- placement of this now and that we don't have.. ah.. just have a.. that we only have a promise that there's going to be replacements in the future. Because, all that the Local Governments can look to when this is gone is the real estate taxes. They have no place else to go. Now, I'm voting for this Bill and I'm a Co-Sponsor of the Bill. And, I'm on it only soley because it partly, just partly-meets our obligation to some of the taxpayers in the State of Illinois. The tax- payers of the State of Illinois voted out the personal property tax. We have one single obligation to those people on the personal property tax. And, that is to eliminate the per- sonal property tax completely. We're kidding ourselves in trying to hoodwink the taxpayers of this State when we give GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  them one slice out of a loaf as we're doing in this Bill. They want the elimination of the personal property tax and nothing else is going to satisfy them. We have a second obligation, to remove the greater portion of the real estate taxes and to get ourselves working on tax reform in the State of Illinois. I'll support this as only a half way measure. But, I'm not kidding myself that we're hoodwinking the tax- payers of this State. We're not doing that and they're going to let us know, in no uncertain terms, unless we eliminate this personal property tax and get complete reform of the tax structure of the State of Illinois. Thank you."

"The gentleman from Livingston, Repre- sentative Hunsicker."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd like to explain my 'yes' vote up there. The people of this State voted to do away with the personal property tax two or three years ago and we haven't done a thing except take off household furnishings and one automobile. And, it's amazing to me to see how much concern there is from the Mem- bers of the Metropolitan Area about the elimination of the personal property taxes and there won't be any money to run Local Government. The individual up there hasn't paid per- sonal property taxes for years or at least the greater share of them. And, I'm amazed at these comments coming from over there. Take the farmer, for instance, he gets hooked about three times. He has to pay real estate taxes. If he buys cattle, he has to pay personal property tax on those. He has GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  72. to pay personal property tax on the feed he feeds them. And when he sells them, he has to pay income tax. Now, you talk about taxes, it's high time there's a little relief in sight And, I'm happy to vote 'yes'."

"The gentleman from Lake, Representa- tive Matijevich."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to explain my vote. Ah.. I'd like to ah.. vote 'yes' and 'no' on this Bill. It comes in two parts. Ah.. Representative Hunsicker mentioned the will of the people. The people voted to eliminate the personal property tax as it pertains to individuals. Ah.. they probably wouldn't have voted for this Bill as it stands now. Ah.. the people in my District are concerned. For example, this is a blanket exemption for farmers. Ah.. there are many farmers and many corporate farmers ah.. who are being subsidized by the Federal Government, some who are being paid for not farming. And, we are giving them this added benefit which may fall on the individual taxpayers. I'm concerned about the heavy tax loads as it pertains to individuals. Maybe we can come in one of these days and write Legislation that can benefit the small farmer as it pertain to personal property tax, maybe we could write a circuit breaker type of Legis- lation pertaining to the small farmer ah.. before that. But, the small famer is in no different streets than the small businessman. Ah.. they need just as much aid too. Therefore, I'm going to vote 'no' for this Bill ah.. and hoping that the people in my District will understand that I do support Legis- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  lation which will eliminate the personal property tax as it pertains to individuals."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representative Yourell."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Briefly, to explain my vote, I see that I don't have too much support in my recogni- tion of a Bill that definitely favors the big corporate farmers in the State of Illinois. As you know, the farmers in this Body will tell you that less than five percent of the farming being done in the State of Illinois is being done presently by the individual farmer who owns two hundred or more acres and is principally in the business of farming. Most of the farms in this State are conglomerates ah.. deal- ing in many other areas of interprise. And, this again, is another attempt as was the $20,000 Exemption Bill to bene+ fit politically in this election year, the big Corporations in the State of Illinois. I hope other individuals will have the courage to stand up and vote 'no' and then go back to their Districts and tell the people they voted 'no' because they want total personal property tax relief and not a politi- cal gimmick in an election year of 1972. I'm glad to vote "no'."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Richard Walsh."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I believe there's one other aspect of this Bill that should be brought to the attention of the Membership. Ah.. it has GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  741 been indicated that the replacement revenue that's going to be required is some twenty-five million dollars. Now, this will go to all of the ah.. the ah.. taxing Districts.. taxing bodies within ah.. a particular County including, of course, School Districts. Now, approximately sixty percent of this twenty-five million goes to School Districts. So, in addi- tion to the fifteen million dollars that's going to go to School Districts by the ah.. replacement approach that's going to be taken next year, these School Districts in these favored Communities are also going to get additional relief under the School Aid Formula. Because their assessed value is going to be down, they're going to get increased school aid under this common school formula. Now, that amounts to some six million dollars. So, in addition to the twenty-five million that the other taxpayers of this State are going to have to pay to these favorite Districts, ah.. an additional six million is going to come out of the appropriation from the Common School Fund. It just works out that way. And, Ladies and Gentlemen, I think, this patchwork approach to solving our property tax problem is just plain wrong. We're giving people over sixty-five ah.. homestead exemptions. This is, of course, at the expense of other taxpayers, young marrieds and ah.. other people who may be in need of relief still un- der sixty-five. And, this ah.. particular Bill, I think, is especially discriminatory, not only from the twenty-five million but also from that benefit that these areas get from the Common School Formula. I vote, 'no'." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

75 Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: "The gentleman from Stark, Representa- tive Nowlan."

"Mr. Speaker, I feel that I should ah.. respect- fully correct the statement of Representative Yourell. I. believe he had it turned around. More than ninety-five per- cent of all farm produce generated in the State of Illinois is produced on farms in which there is no more than, I be- lieve, it's two and a half man years employment annually in which farms are individually owned, not corporately owned. Ninety-five percent produced by individual farm operators. As to Representative Walsh, I concur that I wish we did not have to be reduced, as a Legislative Body, to a patchwork approach to personal property relief. We had a comprehensive plan which, I believed, was responsible and which the Courts up this point, ah.. declared invalid. And, as to the School Formula, I would ah.. note that ah.. for many years the property assessed evaluation in Cook County has been substantially lower than they would have been had ah.. personal property of indivíduals been assessed. And, for many years in Cook County, there has been a substantial ah.. windfall related to our.. our Formula."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Leon."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd like to explain my vote. In the new Constitution. we provide that the elimination of the personal property tax shall be replaced by State-wide revenue other than on real GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  property. I believe that, if we pass this Bill, we will al- most of a certainty have to increase the income tax. There- fore, I vote 'no'."

"The ah.. gentleman from Cook, Mr. Ewell

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we're engaging a little bit of moral dishonesty in this Bill. What we need in the State is a broadening of the tax base. And, that means broadening it in all aspects. When we seek to narrow the tax base, we're doing it on the assumption that somebody else is going to carry the burden. We're now shift+ ing the burden on the local property... or the local tax- payer saying somehow or another, the State will provide the revenue in order to pay the bills. We're saying that, through some form, some method, some magic, that the State will pro- duce enough revenue to fund the Schools and pay the other expenses of the State. This is shear nonsense. If you talk about tax reform, you talk about defeated candidates. We talk about tax replacements when we know well we'll be here at midnight one night with the lights flickering on one after the other trying to gain some measure of tax reform. I sug- gest to this Body, we will finally turn to that group that everybody else turns to, the Federal Government. We will then ask the Federal Government, 'You come bail us out'. But, I suggest, we were all here and we all heard the honorable Mills, Representative Mills, tell us that the Federal Govern- ment has gotten nothing to share but a tax deficit. And, I think, we ought to consider what we're doing here today. And, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  I vote 'no'."

"Take the record. On this question, there are 120 'Ayes' and 16 'Nays', and this Bill having re- ceived the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed 1 'Present'. 4433."

"House Bill 4433, an Act to add Sections 12 through 16 to 'An Act in relation to State revenue sharing with local governmental entities'. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Stark, Mr. Nowlan."

"Mr. Speaker and Members, I thank you for the previous vote and would add that House Bill 4433 is a companion measure to that last Bill which would establish the procedure for providing dollar for dollar ah.. assistance to provide ah.. for the revenues which would be lost as a result of House Bill 3776 if enacted. The proposal would appropriate five million dollars in fiscal '73 and would provide that ah.. the replacement be made as follows: That a unit of local government would simply take the 1971 assessed evaluation for farm personal property times the extension rate of 1972. And, that would give the dollar amount of revenues lost to that unit of local government which would be replaced from the State to the local unit of government on the basis that twenty percent of the revenues to be lost would be replaced on June 1, 1973. And, that the remaining eighty percent would be re- placed in August of 1973. It is felt that this would reflect the period in which the revenue lost would be felt by the local government. As I stated earlier, other personal property GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Bills have had no appropriation from fiscal '73 nded with them on the basis that the revenue lost impact tr. Local government is actually not felt until fiscal '74. Actually, distributions ah.. by local governments begin late ach.. our fiscal year period. And thus, it is felt that the twenty percent or five million dollars would ah.. provide replacements for the initial impact of loss. And, that the D ining eighty percent to be paid in August of '73 would lfill that committment ah.. for replacement of c.1 loss which would be felt throughout the remainder of And, I ask that ah.. we act favorably upon this ment ah.. measure." 74. Robert Blair: i. Yourell." "Discussion? The gentleman from ah.. : "Ah.. would the gentleman respond to a question?"

"He indicates that he will." 11: "Representative Nowlan, would you consider an ment to this Bill to provide for replacing the revenue ne Agricultural Premium Fund?" can:

"No." "Can you tell me why?"

"We're talking about revenues to be lost ah.. to ost by local units of government and we're talking about responsibility upon the part of the State to replace such revenues. And, I feel that ah.. such revenues should come From the. the State as a whole." H. Your "Thank you." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  79.

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Leon."

"I would like to ask the Sponsor a question."

"He indicates he'll yield."

"In the new Revenue Article of the 1970 Constitu- tion, it provides that such revenue must be replaced soley by those who are relieved of the taxation. What provisions are you making for the farmers to replace the taxes that they are relieved of under your Bill? Ah.. what taxes would they have imposed on them to do so?"

"Representative Leon, as I read Section 5c of the new Constitution, it simply states that, 'by January 1 of '79, the General Assembly, by Law, shall abolish advalorem Personal Property Taxes and concurrently therewith and there- after, replace all revenue lost by units of local government. This is not a proposal to totally abolish Personal Property Tax. And thus, I don't believe there is an absolute require- ment that the revenues lost to local government be replaced. But, that we, nonetheless, have a committment to make this replacement, and thus, we are proposing this ah.. replacement proposal."

"Ah.. Mr. Nowlan, going on Section C, Line 4, it says, 'such revenues shall be replaced by imposing State-wide taxes other than advalorem taxes on Real Estate soley on the classes relieved of the burden of paying such advalorem Per- sonal Property Taxes because of the abolition of such taxes subsequent to January 1... January 2, 1971'. I believe that you're misreading when you say, '79', subsequent to January, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  80. 1971 is now. Therefore, we should impose a tax on the farmer to replace the burden that they are being relieved of and any other person."

"But, this would not be a personal property re- lief ah... I don't know that I follow you, Representative Leon. As I read that Section, it simply states that ah.., when the Personal Property Tax, as to all personal property committments, is abolished, there concurrently therewith, shall be a replacement ah.. on.. a replacement. And, it is not required, at this juncture, but that we have ah.. a com- mittment to make that replacement to local government."

"Ah.. I would like to read the whole paragraph in its entirety and see, if then, you can agree with me. Section C. 'On or before January 1, 1979, the General Assembly, by Law, shall abolish all advalorem Personal Property Taxes, and concurrently therewith and thereafter, shall re- place all revenues lost by units of local government and school districts as a result of the abolition of advalorem Personal Property Taxes. Subsequent to January 2,.... Sub- sequent to January 2, 1971, such revenues shall be replaced by imposing State-wide taxes other than advalorem taxes on Real Estate soley on those classes... soley on those classes relieved of the burden of paying advalorem Personal Property Taxes because of the abolition of such taxes subsequent to January 2, 1971. If any such tax imposed for such replace- ment purposes are taxes on or measured by such replacement taxes, shall not be considered for the purpose of limitation GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  81. of one tax in a ratio of eight to five setforth in Article.. in Section III of this Article'. I believe.. I believe that you can't get around that January 2, 1971 date without re- placing immediately with the abolition of Personal Property Taxes."

"Well, I believe, Representative Leon, that as a delegate to that Convention, you appreciate the fact that the delegates considered, at that time, that the Personal Property Taxes on individuals would have been abolished and there ah.. would be remaining that Personal Property Tax as to Corporations. And that, the thrust of this language is related to that abolition on Corporations as a whole for which it is reasonably easy to establish incidents and reflections of.. of tax burden, whereas, the proposal is not an abolition of the Personal Property Tax. It is a classification which it is... which is drawn ah.. within the constraints and guide- lines of Lakeshore Auto Parts and for which, I don't believe this language requires ah.. a replacement, but which we feel we are committed to replace."

"Well, I'll go back to Section A of, I mean ah.. to ah.., Paragraph A of Section V. It says, 'the General Assembly, by Law, classify personal property for the purpose of taxation by evaluation, abolish such taxes on any and all classes and authorize a levy of taxes in lieu of the taxa- tion of personal property by evaluation'. I think, our intention in that Paragraph or that Section is imposed... superimposed on Section C. And, therefore, I believe that we must replace the taxes that are lost so that local districts GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  will not suffer any loss. And, this Bill that we are now having under consideration provides for only twenty percent replacement and from what source, I don't know. There is no new levy of taxes and before you can reduce it, under the Constitution, we must replace. I believe that, constitution- ally, your Bill, both Bills are not Constitutional.".

"I would only respond that this is the first of the Personal Property Relief Proposals which does have a replacement ah.. with appropriation attached. And, that I'm surprised that you didn't pose such questions ah.. earlier."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Ewell

"Would the ah.. Sponsor yield to a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Nowlan, is there some surplus in the ah.. Governor's Budget this year?"

"I believe that in the Governor's committment to ah.. providing increases for the Social Services and for Education that he has proposed a budget which is.. is quite tight. But that, the five million dollars proposed here is available and has been considered ah.. by the Governor's Office and ah.. is within the framework of revenues available."

"Alright.. Representative Nowlan, that represents twenty percent. Are you saying that there's a surplus in the budget that will allow for eighty percent in ah.. in the next budgeting period?"

"I am saying that with tax reforms accomplished in this General Assembly in 1969 by the imposition of a State- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  wide income tax, we have increased the percentage rate of annual increase in revenues to this State of Illinois during periods of normal economic growth to a point of about ah.. six and a half to seven percent and ah..."

"Thank you. Thank you ah.., Representative Nowlan. But, just very briefly, I'd like to say that, from all indi- cations that I've heard, there's no surplus in the Governor's Budget. And, I suggest that no one is suggesting any new taxes to make up for this money that's being lost. And, it's a simple active matter, that if you're going to take the money out here, you're going to place it back somewhere else. And, the only final question that I'd like to ask of the Sponsor is, what taxes do you propose to increase in order to pay the additional expenses in the coming years?"

"You're trying to put words in my mouth, Repre- sentative, because I was trying to explain to you that there is a general growth within this ah.. budget and revenue structure which will be adequate to absorb the replacements costs herein. Government is in the business of reallocating our resources. And, we do that when we provide school fund- ing, when we provide funding for foster children and also when we provide revenue sharing to local units of government to preclude the increase of the property tax rates at the local government units' level. And, we have been providing revenue sharing through various forms ah.. since 1969."

"Finally, I've heard a great deal of double talk. No one yet has told me where the money is going to come from." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  84.

"The gentleman from ah.. Lake, Mr. Conolly."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question." Hon. W. Robert Blair; "All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the previous question has been moved. The gentleman from Stark, Mr. Nowlan, to close."

"Just very briefly, Mr. Speaker. Again, I would repeat that this is the first of the Personal Property relief measures proposed in either House which does have within it a replacement formula which does provide for partial replace- ment from fiscal '73 funds and that this proposal is a re- sponsible committment to local governments, that the amount of five million dollars this year and twenty million dollars next year within a framework of a budget in the thousands of millions of dollars is something which can be accomplished within the general growth framework of our revenue structure. And that, it is a companion measure which should be adopted attended with House Bill 3776."

"Alright.. The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? ah.. Christian, Mr. Tipsword."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The gentleman from You know, I think, this is a very interesting Bill and I'm voting 'aye' because it provides some of the money. But, it's very interesting that, apparently, that we're providing five million of approximately twenty-five million in, apparently, fiscal '73 and twenty million dollars in fiscal 174 for the taxes that are going to GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  85. be reduced in fiscal '73. Now, when we come up in fiscal '74 and provide the other twenty million, fiscal '74, the same tax relief Bill is still going to be applied which we have voted out of here. And so, we're really going to have to come up with a hundred and eighty percent, it appears to me, of the twenty five million in that one year. I don't know where that money is going to come from. I'm glad to vote to provide this portion of it. But, I wish that we were pro- viding all of the replacement money now for the year in which the taxes are being reduced. I'm happy to see them reduced even though it's only a partial reduction but we ought to be replacing the whole darn thing in the year in which the taxes are reduced for every year. Because that one year, when it catches up with us, we're really going to have a frightening experience. But, of course, that's after the Election."

"Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 134 'Ayes and 13 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 3608."

"House Bill 3608, an Act to implement and regulate a lottery within the State and making an appropria- tion in connection therewith. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Giorgi."

"Ah.. thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could we ah.. con- sider 3609 also because that creates a lottery fund?"

"Alright.. The gentleman is asking leave to have ah.. House Bill 3609 ah.. considered at the same time GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  86. as 3608. Is there objection? Hearing none, then read 3609.

"House Bill 3609, an Act to amend Section 5 of 'An Act in relation to State finance'. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Alright.. Proceed."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it's not for me to try to bail out Representative Nowlan with his problems on tax replacement. But, this Lottery Bill that I've ah.. that we've ah.. put together, the Sponsor and myself, is going to take care of Nowlan's problem and it's also going to take care of the homestead exemption problem that the Supreme Court ruled valid last Monday and it'll take care of some of Representative Blade's problems because this Lottery Bill, as it's designed, based on an experience factor in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, will generate a hundred million dollars in new monies for the State of Illinois. And, I think, that the homestead exemption that ah.. will cost us twenty-four million dollars and the ah.. Nowlan ah.. farm exemptions will cost us twenty-million dollars. That's forty-forty million and we expect the share to be, at least, a hundred million, fifty million for schools and fifty million for personal property exemptions. Now, Mr. Speaker, ah.. I'd like the Members of the General Assembly to think happy thoughts because this is a happy Bill. This is a Bill designed for the people of the State of Illinois. They're prevailing on their government to conduct a simon-pure lottery for them. And, Mr. Speaker, this Bill was so designed that the Governor GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  87. within a Commission appointed and the Superintendent appointed by the Governor with the advice and consent of the Senate will have complete control of the conductions of the lottery The Governor will have complete control of any contract signed by the lottery and the Governor will have complete control of any of the minutes of the Commission in his veto power. Now, there's going to be more or less in the General Assembly crying that this will make Illinois ah.. ah.. a gambling State. Well, most Illinoians, last year, put their money where their mouth was, at the race tracks and they wagered six hundred and thirty million dollars at our tracks in Illi- nois. In every hamlet, there's been a raffle for an auto- mobile, a TV set, a trip to Las Vegas. Incidentally, they tell me that the trips to Las Vegas originated from O'Hare haven't diminished either. There's been surveys taken in Pennsylvania and New Jersey and they find that the people. who purchase this lottery are in the upper seventy percent of the income bracket. In other words, the other thirty percent might be considered near the poverty levels but that isn't a fact. Seventy percent of the people ah.. Also, seventy percent of the people, surveyed throughout the entire Country, favor a lottery, Mr. Speaker. Further ah.., this Bill is designed so that ah.. we will take away from the underworld, a source of income. And, for fifty cents, where no one gets hurt, we may make some instant millionaires and change the life plan for people for generations to come. Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of good points on the ah.. in favor GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  88. of this Lottery Bill. I know of no organized opposition. And, in yesterdays Journal, I think, they ran a picture of a Telephone Employee who was awarded a million dollars in the Massachusetts Lottery. I'm sure ah.. there isn't too much objection. I'm sure ah.. that ah.. we aren't going to lower the morals of the Illinoian because ah.., in comparison of the States that conduct lotteries, we ah.. our record is ah.. not the best. In fact, it's the worst. So, I don't see that our morals are in danger. And, insofar as Church attendance, we have an average membership ah.. in the Churches and our attendance isn't so bad that they don't keep little or very good track of it. So, I urge your support."

"The ah.. gentleman from DuPage, Mr. ah. Hudson."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'm not so sure, in my own mind, that this Bill is a happy Bill. It has been described in those terms. I think it's always alluring when we hold forth the possiblity of winning huge sums of money. But, the question that remains unresolved in my mind as to just how this may affect certain people without a great deal of financial wherewithal who, it would seem to be, me most attracted to purchase a lottery ticket, those people who are least able to afford money for this pur- pose. Let's face, there will be some winners. Of course, there will be some winners, but there will be thousands upon thousands of losers. And, I'm going to suggest that the people who will be losing will be those who are least able to GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  89. afford to lose. Those will be the people with little financial resource. I don't know what, if any, studies show in this regard. I don't know what the experience is in other States But, I am willing to bet that you will find, in most cases, the people, engaging in the lottery practice, are those who shouldn't be in it. They don't have the money. And, I would raise the question as to how many years it may be or months before we will be raising welfare payments, aid to the needy so that they can, in turn, purchase more lottery tickets and we engage in a vicious cycle. I don't think this is the route to go for the State of Illinois. I hate to see us reach the point where we extend these areas of gambling and chance taking. I think it is not only morally wrong, but, I think, it's economically or will prove to be economically unsound and, perhaps, disastrous for our State. I hate to see us go this route and I am speaking against, this Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Glass."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield to a question?"

"Yes, Sir."

"Ah.. Representative Giorgi, I.. I ah.. tend to concur with ah.. the remarks of Ray Hudson regarding the ah. burden of this tax. I think we're looking here at a situation or, if what you say is true, the State will realize a hundred million dollars of new revenue. I think the question is, where will this money come from? Will it, in fact,... Will the burden be placed upon the people who are least ah.. able GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  to pay? And, I think, you made the statement in your presen- tation of the Bill that seventy percent of the monies ah.. based on the experience of other States, would be coming from the higher income bracket of people. And, I wonder what the source of your information is?"

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I ah.., if I may."

"Proceed."

"I have a New Jersey Study before me and I have a Pennsylvania Study also and the surveys taken of people who purchased tickets and didn't purchase tickets. Of the people that purchased tickets under $5,000 and they're probably living in the United States is 4,000, ten percent of the people purchased tickets. From the 5,000 to 10,000 bracket, forty-seven percent, they happened to be middle class that bought tickets. From 10,000 to 20,000, thirty-two percent bought tickets. And, over 20,000, eleven percent bought tickets. Well, Mr. Speaker, ah.. while I'm answering this question, I'd like to ah.. answer Representative Hudsons. Ah.. I noted that in the last two Bills, he voted to give the farmers...."

"Ah.. the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Glass

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, if it's alright.. I'd like to finish...."

"Yes, go ahead. You.. You can ah.., in your closing remarks, proceed."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Commenting briefly on the Bill, I think, from what Representative Giorgi has just GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  indicated, ah.. more than half of the people from New Jersey were below the $10,000 income bracket that purchased lottery tickets, if I understood the figures correctly. And, I.. I think would certainly ah.. confirm my fears, that the ques- tion is not ah.., 'can we obtain for the State an attractive new means of ah.. bringing revenue in?' But ah.., are we doing it ah.. through a means of taxation or a means of revenue raising that is fairly ah.. levied on.. on the people in the State?'. And, I submit to you that the tendency of this type of ah.. measure would be to bring in revenue ah.. by placing the burden on those people who are least able to afford it. I think, further ah.. that this would be one additional step in opening the door to ah.. another kind of gambling for the State of Illinois. I see no reason for us to rush into this. And, I would urge the defeat of this Bill."

"The ah.. gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. D. J. O'Brien."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House I ah.. would just like to rise in support of this Bill. And in rebuttal to Representative Glass and Representative Hudson, let me just say that this is not a tax or misnomer. The people of Illinois have their free will to purchase or not purchase these tickets as they choose. And, let me also say that, in the City of Chicago, volley pool, illegal lotteries in the private industry of the race tracks are now receiving the revenues from the people of the State that will, under GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  92. this Bill, go towards the real winners of this lottery, the common school fund and the children of this State who are receiving, contrary to many of the statements made on this floor, a quality of education that must be improved. It seems to me, having gone to the various race tracks in and around Chicago on infrequent occasions, that the people, who placing their wages at the windows of those race tracks, are, by large, those who should not be there and can not afford to be there, who should rather be spending the money on their families or in more worthy causes. I submit to you that it is far better for the people of the State of Illinois to con- tribute their waging dollar to the common school fund than it is to illegal lotteries, organized gambling and the race tracks. I submit this is a good Bill and will benefit not only the people in the State, but certainly the school children who are in dyer need of our funds. I urge your sup- port of this measure."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Fary."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and ah.. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, it might be a little surprise to some of you that I rise in support of this Bill. This Bill is the answer to all of the State's financial ills. It is a voluntary ex- traction of monies, a painless extraction. There should be no personal property tax. And, passage of this Bill and.. and enacting of the.. of this Law would just do that. This would be an excellent aid to non-public schools. I had in- troduced the first lottery Bill in Illinois in 1963, Joe GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  93. Stremlau and I were the Sponsors. The Bill went down the drain. The opponents laughed me out of the Committee. Virtually, chased me out. In the year 1965, I believe it was, we submitted another Lottery Bill and were chased out of the Committee again and virtually told that we were a bunch of nuts. Well, Mr. Speaker, I made a study of this thing. I'd like to submit to this Body a little information. Where lotteries are legal, regulations demand that lottery operators be of unquestionable character and reputation be- fore being issued a license. There are no such restrictions on the illegal operators who often set up business with scarcely enough money to print their first batch of tickets. Hundreds of lotteries sprang up over night operated by crooks confidant men and chiefs who did a booming business. That's when the policy numbers, raffles, baseball, football pools, treasury tickets and Irish sweepstakes was created. In 1964, eighty-one Nations had lotteries. At that time, these opera- tions took in 2.2 billion dollars and that is $852,000,000 for education, hospitals, charities and social welfare grants. And, in Australia, one out of every thirteen is the winner. And, I'm sure that every man in this House would go for a deal such as that. A lottery is not a tax. It is not a bread and butter tax. It is not a sales tax. Only those, who wish to subscribe, may participate. And, opponents of this Legislation are not forced to participate because it is not a tax. When New Hampshire instituted a lottery in 1964, opponents raised the traditional moral arguments and pre- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  dicted that the lottery would attract criminal elements. Seven years of experience has not borne out this tradition. A Three man sweepstakes commission employed Edward J. Powers, a former F.B.I. Agent, as Executive Director of the lottery. And, there has never been a whiff of scandal. Between 1765 and 1806, Massachusetts Legislature authorized four lot- teries to build dormitories and supply equipment for Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale, Columbia, William and Mary, Union, Brown and other Universities. These Universities profited through these lotteries. Now, Mr. Speaker, if you'll bear with me, I want to give you the experience of the first lottery in this Country, New Hampshire's first lottery. I'm going to take this out of the old Farmer's Almanac, which I had some years. Lord Chesterfield's eighteenth century aphorism, 'a lottery is a tax on all of the fools in creation'. And, it was challenged boldly by the sovereign State of New Hampshire. The State calls its first legal sweepstakes a monumental success. The first lottery in the United States of America in the twentienth century, the New Hampshire Experiment, netted $2,500,000 for the public schools. The detailed accounting for 1964 is presented in the Congressional Record for October 22nd, Page 85494. Total ticket sales were $5,730,000. The New Hampshire Public Schools netted $2,500, 000 under the 1963 Law. Total prizes were $1,800,000. Ad- ministrative expenses added up to $1,430,093. The first tickets were sold at Rockingham Park on March the 12th. Sales closed September the 7th. Total sales for the six month GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  season were 1,910,031 tickets at $3.00 each. And, the final accounting, and listen to this, in the final accounting, winners were listed from thirty-eight States to show you the desirability of participation, Canada, Ireland and the Panama Canal Zone was included. Approximately 1,700,000 were out- of-State tourists, who purchased tickets during their summer travels through New Hampshire. Only thirteen percent of all the tickets sold were in the names of New Hampshire residents. The remaining eighty-seven percent went to summer tourists. No sweepstake ticket may be sold outside the State or offered through the mails. And, yet, they found a way to get out. The tourists have mailed them and sent them to their friends who desire to participate. One ticket out of every thousand won a prize. The value of all 1,992 winning tickets for the year was $903.50 each. But, six winners carried $100,000 each and six others, $50,000 per ticket. Most winners got about $200.00 each. For the inexperienced player, the New Hampshire odds are simply stated, out of every thousand tickets sold at $3.00 each, one will be a winner with an average of $903.60. Less than one-third of the loot is re- turned to the gamblers. Although the Law does not require it, Congressman Lewis C. Wehman, a Republican, I say a Republican, was proud to present the final accounting. The New Hampshire experiment demonstrates an honest, efficient and dramatic sweepstakes program and can provide substantial revenue to meet public needs, Congressman Wehman concluded. The new Law was signed by Governor John W. King on April the 30th, 1963 and approved in a State-wide referendum on March the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  96. 10th, 1964 by a majority of almost four to one. Tickets may be sold in the New Hampshire State's liquor stores and licensed race tracks in the State. Winners need not present their tickets with election. The money is mailed to the address shown on the stubs. The New Hampshire School Dis- tricts will receive approximately $2,500,000 to be distributed by the State's Treasurer, December the 15th on a flat resident-pupil basis. Congressman Wehman explained, New Hampshire taxpayers will, thereby, receive substantial relief from the mounting costs of education. And, we have that problem here now. You need money for education. This is the answer. The New Hampshire residents put only 792,... 762,000 dollars into the pool and took out 230,000 dollars in winnings for a net investment of $532,000 by the people of the State. For that investment, they got $2,500,000 for the Public Schools. Massachusetts was the biggest patron. And, I'm citing this just to show you the desirability of participation. Massachusetts was the biggest patron with 702 winning tickets per year, New York next with 306 winners, New Hampshire third with 254, Connecticut fourth with 168 and New Jersey fifth with 140. Now, listen to this, and this is in New Hampshire, none of the six $100,000 tickets was held in New Hampshire. The six grand prizes went into New Jersey, two to Maryland and one each to Michigan and New York. Now, the population of Illinois is ten times that of New Hampshire and we could net ten times more revenue than they have. And, this would really solve our problems. The Sweepstakes Pro- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  97. gram has been a tremendous success says Congressman Wehman in establishing a program, great emphasis was placed on internal controls and safeguards to insure that it would stand the test of time. Banks throughout the State are cooperating with the new Sweepstakes Commission in processing the tickets and funds on the daily basis. All winners are notified by telegram. Now, Mr. Speaker...."

"One.. One.. One moment, please. For what purpose does the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Granata, rise?" P. C. Granata; "I'll donate my ten minutes to Mr. Fary."

"Alright.."

"Thank you, very much, Peter."

"For what purpose does the gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich, rise?"

"I was going to say that I'll substract my ten. But ah.., is he asking a question or closing the de- bate for Zeke Giorgi or.. or what?"

Is Hon. W. Robert Blair: "No. He's speaking ah.. to the ah.. merits of the ah. of the Bill. So, proceed, Mr. Fary."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I was in a telephone booth and I heard somebody screaming, 'Poor people will be exploited by a lottery'. Well, let me ask a couple of questions. a woman poor because she has no fur coat? Is a woman poor because she takes a sandwich to work? Does not take a cab to work? Is a man poor because he drinks lower shelf whiskey and not top shelf whiskey? Is a man poor because he smokes 10 cent cigars and not 25 cent cigars? Is a man poor because GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  he takes a bus to work and does not drive? Now, you talk about people on relief who are going to buy lottery tickets. So, they get their paycheck and how much of that money goes for whiskey? How much of it goes to the race track? How many goes for a policy? How much is that? I don't think anybody could answer that question. And, if they bought a ticket for the Irish Sweepstakes, you wouldn't know the difference unless they won and then they wouldn't care because they'd be hit and off of relief. Now, Mr. Speaker, let's be sensible about this thing. Maybe the climate has changed. Maybe now is the time to take a look at this thing, a hard look at it. The Bingo Bill. Look how many years we worked on that. I talked to Father Groesch the other day from St. Michael's and he came to me and he hugged me. He said, 'John, I was forty-five thousand dollars in the red for my schools. Af- ter seven months of operation, I netted fifty-five thousand dollars. I'm ten thousand dollars ahead'. So, to keep us clean, licensed and regulated and let's get some money in the Bill and quite increasing taxes. And, this is your answer. It's a substitute for taxes. I urge you fellas to get your marbles together and give us a little vote there to put this thing in effect."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Duff."

"Mr. Speaker, I think that we missed some of the points in what we're doing if we pass a Lottery Bill in Illi- nois. Revenue, to be sure and, perhaps, for education. But, under what principle will the children know that they are GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  receiving that help? My suggestion from the sovereign State of Illinois that easy money is available for a dollar: Just yesterday, a young man in Salem, Massachusetts won on a lottery ticket. He won $1,000,000 which he will receive over the next nineteen years at $50,000 a year. And, I think, all of us are pleased and happy when something good happens to another human being. But, what was the first statement that the man made? 'I will quit my job'. Now, it seems to me, while all of us would like easy streets, are we ready to place the sovereign State of Illinois behind the principle that says, 'You do not need to be sure of contributing, producing and participating in society. But, you can hope because the State of Illinois will make good for you that you may have an opportunity to become wealthy for no cause other than the fact that we are willing to do almost anything to get money'. It seems to me that, when the gentleman quoted from the State of New Hampshire, which passed the first lottery in New.. in this Country, he should have emphasized, perhaps, more the words that were used, 'A lotter is a tax on all of the fools in creation'. And, this is sorry way for us to treat the people of Illinois if this is our atti- tude."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Caldwell."

"Very briefly, Mr. Speaker, I rise in sup- port of this Bill. Ah.. Representative Fary ah.. took most of my ah.. arguments but I just want to document the fact that in compiling a dissertation for a Masters Degree at GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  100. Northwestern between 1935 and 1940, I too, found that many of the buildings, many of the Universities on the Eastern Coast were financed almost completely through a system of lottery in this Country. And, it's historical. And, I'm also aware of the fact that there's probably seventy-five percent of my Associates in this Room, at the present time, who ah.. have Irish Sweepstakes tickets, either in their pockets or at home waiting for the next edition of the Irish Sweepstakes to be run. I think that we ought to be realistic. I found, in my research, that people, particularly Americans of all ethnic groups, ah.. are going to take chances. That's a part of our culture. And, I'm certain that we can not oppose this Legislation of a moralistic basis. I believe that we might as well face the fact that people are going to take chances. And, if they're going to do so, we might as well legislate it and let some of the huge pockets go back into education, go back into ah.. health care on a legitimate basis rather than house the ah.. people who ah.. appeal in ah.. in illegitimate ah.. avenues, ah.. get the money. At least, I think, we are moving in the right direction. It's interesting that Representative Giorgi has some figures for these States who have ventured into this area. And, I would suggest that all of us vote in favor of this Bill. Thank you."

"The gentleman from Coles, Mr. Cox."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"All those in favor of the motion say GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  'aye', the opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the previous question has been moved. The gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Giorgi, to close."

"Mr. Speaker, very briefly, I noted that in the ah.. two Bills that Representative Nowlan introduced and passed, that one of the previous speakers voted for the first Bill to grant the farmers an exemption but refused to vote for the second to show where the money would come from. My Bill provides fifty percent of the 100,000,000 dollars that will accrue to the State, fifty million of it will go into a local government distributive fund to make up for the replacement of advalorem personal property tax revenues ah. exempted, like the elderly exemptions and the one that Nowlan is talking about. That's number one. Number two, there was another speaker talking about education from lotteries. Let no one in this House go back to his District and imply that this Bill is meant to support education. This is just in- cidental revenues that will go into the common school fund. And, you might find some thrills and you might find some money for some of the specially handicapped kids that don't have the money to be educated today. And, I noted from one of the previous speakers, he made no mention of the fact, for the last twenty years, we were happy to take six hundred million dollars in taxes from the race track. I think this is ah.. a little hypocritical. And, I'd like ah.. to leave it on the note, let's keep it a happy Bill. Let's make some people millionaires in our State. In New Jersey, they're GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  making a millionaire a month. We'll give away prizes of $50,000 and $10,000. I'm sure that we can all use the hundred million dollars as incidental revenue. Thank you very much for your attention."

"The question is, 'shall these two Bills pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', the opposed 'no'. And, the Clerk will take two records. The gentleman from... The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Fary."

"I would like to explain my vote, Mr. Speaker. A fellow by the name of John Scarney was an entertainer and a musician. He is the world's foremost gambling authority hired by Uncle Sam to visit Army and Navy Camps to alert soldiers about crooked gambling. He asked five questions internationally and here's what they are. The fourth one is, do you gamble? Seventy-four percent of the women said, 'yes', sixty-seven percent of men said, 'yes'. Type of Activities was the number two question. Number one, Card Playing. Number two, Lotteries and Raffles, Numbers and Bingo. Number three, Carnival Games. Number four, Dice Games. Number five, Horse Racing. Number six, Betting on Sports Events and Elections. Number seven, Punch Boards and Sales Cards. Number eight, Slot Machines. The third question he asked, why do you gamble? Seventy percent replied, 'we gamble to win money'. Twenty-five percent replied, 'they gamble for pleasure, excitement and thrills. Five percent gamble and the ah.. five percent characters who go to Bingo Parlors or the Race Tracks or Cassinos to mingle with women and vice GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  versa. The next question was, 'if you do not gamble, why not? Fifty percent said, 'they could not afford it'. Thirty- five percent said, 'they do not believe that it's possible to win in the long run'. Five percent said, 'they used to gamble but have stopped because it cost more than they could afford'. Five percent said, 'they don't know anything about gambling'. Two percent stated, 'they believe all forms of gambling are sinful'. Three percent gave assorted reasons such as, 'my husband would break my neck, or 'my wife would divorce me if she knew I was gambling'. Number five, are you in favor of a National Lottery? And, five to one were for a National Lottery. Now, why send this money to Ireland? Why not keep it here. where it will do more good, a lot more good? Mr. Speaker, if I sit down... if I promise to sit down, will I get more votes for my good friend, Zeke? Does anybody want to buy a ticket for the Irish Sweepstakes?"

"The.. The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Granata."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I've been milling this Bill over in my mind over and over and thinking, what is the right thing to do? But, the other night when I was listening to television and listening to WBBM TV, gave us a very, to anyone listening to it, it was very, very enlightening. He says, 'this would help the City and all Legislators should vote for it'. And, on the advice of Richard Westercamp, I'm going to vote 'aye'."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. J. J. Wolf.". GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  J. J. Wolf: "Well, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, there's been a lot of moralizing over the ah.. idea of gambling. But, I'd like to point out, as every Member of this House knows, that there are hundred of thousands of dollars, if not more, generated each year by the Irish Sweepstakes which come into this Country and does help a very worthy cause. Now, I've supported every increase in taxes for liquor, for race tracks and I'm a firm believer that we ought to put tax on vice where it belongs. And, I think, we ought to have some more 'green' lights up there."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Arrigo."

"Mr. Speaker, the three men, who were most vocal in their opposition to this Bill, were gentlemen who came from probably the most affluent Suburbs in the Area of ah.. in the Cook County Area. I can understand why they would be opposed to this type of Bill. And, as I look up at the 'red' lights, I notice too, that most of the 'no' votes are also people who come from affluent Areas in our State. And, I'd like to remind the Members of this House that one of the greatest political axioms of all times was the one, and I'm going to quote it in French, ??????, evil is he who evil thinks. And, I would suggest that we vote 'aye' on this Bill. There is nothing evil about this Bill. And, I vote 'aye'."

"The ah.. gentleman from Lawrence, Mr. Cunningham."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  105. people, who live in the Fifty-Fourth District, are not affluent, but they're not so poor in spirit that they intend to pander to human weakness to finance Government. Surely, the committment of all mankind is stronger than that. Poor people, who gamble, do not so from desire but from a need, a desperate need. It's moral leprosy to suggest, for a moment, that the fact of a hundred million dollars of ill-gotten gain, which can be acquired by this effort, can make it right. If that be true, where do you draw the line? You can make millions more by prostitution and narcotics. Think about this for a little while. If you wish to reaffirm your face in traditional values, that's made this Country great, you can do so by giving a 'red' light on this proposition. It is not a happy Bill. It's a Bill that'll take a long step for- ward in Illinois to cultivating pernicious proposition that you can get something for nothing in this World. And, that isn't true and know it isn't true."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Yourell."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In response to the last speaker, I would remind him that prostitution is no longer a lucrative profession because of the ah.. so much amateur competition."

"The gentleman from Macon, Mr. Borchers."

"Mr... Mr. Speaker, how can I... how can I saying anything following that last remark? Ah.. I really want to explain my vote. The reason that I'm voting the way I shall is simply because, either last year or two years ago, one of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  106. the Irish descendant, Member of the Legislature on the floor of this House, sold me an Irish Sweepstakes ticket. I don't want this to happen again. So, I'm going to vote 'aye'."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Douglas."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, ah.. I think, it's unfortunate that.. that some of us are moralizing and describing a. Lottery Bill as a destructive immoral kind of exercise. Ah.. I.. I would really take strong exception with my good friend, Roscoe Cunningham. Roscoe, I think, in comparing a.. a lottery, which.. which has a long history in many Countries of the World were very carefully conducted research is demonstrated, a minimum of.. of invasion of.. of ah.. illicit or.. or immoral unacceptable people or activities, that we are doing an injustice to what this Bill could do for the State of Illinois. I.. I think, in all seriousness, that the people are entitled to the dream that goes along. with investing a few cents in a lottery. Ah.. Mr. Giorgi has made it very clear that.. that is not, as some have said, an endeavor that is participated in particularly by the poor And, I would hope that those, who are staying off this Bill because of their reservations of.. on the moral aspects of it, would recognize that we have here a proven method of raising revenue. The people of Illinois are entitled to invest in the future of their State which is, in essence, what this is a voluntary investment in the betterment of the State of Illinois. And, I would urge those few extra votes that we need." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  107.

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Duff."

"Mr. Speaker, I think, it's important that the people, who may read of some of this debate, must realize that it should not be put totally in the context of moral or immoral Ah.. and I spoke, and I suppose, from one of those affluent Districts. But, the gentleman may know that these Districts are also affluent such great new villages with young family formations and hopeful ah.. aspirants to.. to success as the Villages of Elk Grove and.. and ah.. Wheeling. Ah.. But, I think, it is also important to note that we're not talking in terms of morality here, ah.. in my opinion. I like to gamble. Ah.. I don't particularly think, for myself, that gambling is immoral. Ah.. I also think, however, that it is not right for the State of Illinois to say on one hand, that gambling is illegal, and then on the other hand, to try to support our very essential elemental institutions of educa- tion on the premise of something that, we ourselves, say is illegal. It's a contradiction, in fact. And, I think, for the State of Illinois to toy with this method, is improper."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. D. J. O'Brien."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I just rise to explain my vote hoping to keep this alive to get eighty-nine votes. I think it's time we stop pontificating and get off of the pulpit and stop telling the people that you don't have schools, you're taxes to the gills on Real Estate and Personal Property, but you have substance. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  you have spirit, you raise money by hard work. The people in this State are raising money by hard work. They're paying more than their fair share to keep Government moving. They're paying more than their fair share to keep the schools and our State institutions open. I think it's time that we quit hiding behind the charades, whether it be under the guides of morality or whatever and get down with the people and say 'alright'. Instead of giving your money to policy, instead of giving your money to illegal lotteries, instead of feeding your race tracks instead of your children, let's put this money into a legal lottery where all of the people of Illi- nois, and especially, the children will benefit. The charade of morality is no longer pertinent to the people of the State of Illinois. They're being over taxes and over burdened. And, I urge some more 'green' lights."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Rayson."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, one of the previous speakers mentioned a couple of the towns in my District and what their posture might be on a State Lottery. Ah.. just for the information of the House and.. and that particular individual, I ran a survey about three months ago, sending out a questionnaire to about 4,000 residents in my District. The results of that survey, regard- ing whether or not we should have a State Lottery, were sixty- three percent in favor, twenty... twenty- eight percent in opposition and nine percent had ah.. no opinion. Ah.. in furtherance of the arguments of how much monies ah.. this GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  109. would generate for the State of Illinois, the Sponsor of this Bill has been extremely conservative in estimating a hundred million dollars. The experience of the six Eastern States, presently operating a State Lottery, the average annual per capita expenditure of the State is $13.83. If we were to estimate the per capita expenditure of the State of Illinois, the estimated gross receipts would be approximately $150,000 Now, if we were to assume that it would pass this year and it would take about a three month start-up period for ticket sales for the remaining nine months of fiscal '73, ah.. this would bring in approximately $110,000,000 for this fiscal year alone and about $150,000,000 in the ah.. ensuing years. And, I urge a 'yes' vote on ah.. these two Bills."

"The gentleman from ah.. Lake, Mr. Mati- jevich."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, in explaining my vote, it seems to be, that some think that a 'no' vote is a moral vote and an 'aye' vote is an immoral vote. Ah.. I don't think that's necessarily true. Ah.. I recall on the floor of the House in the closing days in all of the Sessions that I've attended here ah.. the last week of June where we used to ah.. collect a little bit and try to determine what hour we would adjourn on the last week of.. of the ah.. Session. I know that many times, we'd try to determine who is going to win ah.. this or that ah.. ballgame in a pool. Ah.. I think, that a 'no' vote really is an affront to the intelligence of every voter in your District. I think, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  everybody can make that moral decision within themselves if they want to purchase a lottery ticket. I think, that it's about time that this Legislature ah.. starts getting away from what we should determine, what is gambling and what isn't gambling. Leave that to the ah.. people themselves to decide. I think, it isn't sinful when someone gambles or not. It's sinful ah.. if somebody gambles and they can not afford ah.. take care of their family. But, that's the decision that they ought to make within themselves. I think, you ought to take note of the fact ah.. that Representative Regner said, 'the people feel that a lottery would be good to gain more revenue for the State of Illinois'. I'm voting the way that the people in my District feel. They think that a lottery would be beneficial. And, I would hope that more 'green' lights go on the board in favor of this proposition."

"The gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hudson."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, when this Bill was heard in Committee, I voted against it. My position then was essentially the same as it is today. But, I raised a question in Committee because it has been alleged and it's true that this Bill has been introduced and tried out in New York State. So, I raised the question as to what the revenues raised, via this route, had done for the financial situation in New York State. Well, it hasn't done a thing, Ladies and Gentlemen, for New York State. New York State is in a bad condition today and it seemingly gets worse year after year regardless of how many lotteries, how GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  many Bills, how many proposals of this kind they enact. I suggest to you getting away from the moral aspects of this, that it is not... it is not a fiscal answer. It is not fiscal responsibility. And, if we continue to go in this direction, I feel that we will be going in the direction taken by Rome prior to its fall. I urge again, a 'no' vote on this."

"The gentle man from Sangamon, Mr. Londri- gan."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I am registered on the board as a 'no'. I did this because I do not believe and did not like the idea of sup- porting our common schools from gambling. However, the de- bate has reaffirmed several of my other beliefs. I do not believe that gambling is immoral. I do not believe that most people consider it immoral. If it is not immoral and is only illegal because we make it so, therefore, if we make it legal, there should be no reason why it should not support the common school and there should be nothing wrong with it. And, I do not see anything wrong with gambling. For this reason, Mr. Speaker, I'm going to flip over to 'yes'. For additional reasons, and I think, one of the most important, do not everyone of us campaign on the tax issue? We always say, 'Cut taxes. Cut spending'. Now, here is a concrete way we can give the people what they want, less taxes. I think, all of us are constantly yelling, 'Cut spending. Cut taxes'. And, I'm one of the most vocal. We should support GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  this as a means of giving some little tax relief. 112. Therefore I would suggest that a few more 'reds' flip over and we get on with the show."

"Have all voted... The gentleman from Lake, Mr. Pierce."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, in explaining my vote. We're all aware.. We're all aware that we'll need more money for schools, more money for mental health, more money for Uni- versities, more money, perhaps, for public aid. And, yet, we have two candidates running for.Governor and each of which you said, 'we will not have an increase in income tax'. And yet, you and I know that we'll need millions and millions more for education next year. The only way we're going to raise it... The only way that the people will pay it is through the lottery. And, therefore, I'm a strong supporter and will vote for this Bill."

"The Clerk will take the record. On each of these questions, there are 99 'Ayes' and 63 'Nays'. And, each of these Bills having received a Constitutional majority are hereby declared passed. 3665."

"House Bill 3665, an Act in relation to the joint election of a State's Attorney by two or more Counties and providing for the compensation of State's Attorneys so elected. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Morgan, Mr. Rose."

"Mr. Speaker, may I have leave to ah.. ah.. hear 3665 and 66 together? They are companion Bills." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  113.

"Alright.. Is there ah.. leave? Hear- ing no objection, read 3666."

"House Bill 3666, an Act to amend Sections 2-20, andsoforth of 'The Election Code'. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. the new ah... Constitution of Illinois permits two or more Counties to merge for the purpose of electing a State's Attorney. 3665 sets up up the mechanics for that procedure. 3666 is simply a mechanical Bill incorporating into the 'Election Code' various changes which would be required in the event of this joint election. Getting back to the basic Bill, 3665, it provides that, in the event of a ah.. approval by all the Counties involved, in a referendum, the Counties may merge. The referendum would be held ah.. at the General Election during the year that the State's Attorney is not elected. He would then be elected jointly in the two or more Counties in the following General Election. The ah.. salary would be that which is normally provided by ah.. Law for Counties of the size of the total population. That's the total of the two Counties merged. I ah.. will be pleased to answer any questions. If there are none, I urge your support."

"The gentleman from ah.. Lawrence, Mr. Cunningham."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I'm a Member of Romie Palmer's Committee on State's Attorney GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  114. Study and our ah.. Commission the other day considered these Bills very carefully. And, it was the conclusion of several of us that 3665 misses an excellent opportunity to make it more salable throughout the State in that it does not provide any incentive for two Counties combining. It was our thought that incentive could be provided by changing 3665 by a simple Amendment which would provide that the supplement payable by the State of Illinois would be given in double portion. That is, the two Counties combined, they would be entitled to two ah.. supplements rather than one as it presently provides in the Statute. And, if this would be true, it would have an observable value to all of the Counties in the small category of 15 to 16,000 people. By joining together, they wouldn't have to pay anything at all for ah.. a State's Attorney. Now, I have prepared an Amendment. I had spoken to the ah.. Sponsor about the Amendment. I wasn't sure as to his answer. But, I.. I would like to ask if it would be possible to pull this back to Second Reading for the attack- ing of that Amendment to incorporate the incentive program that I speak of. Would the Sponsor answer?"

"Alright.. He indicates he will."

"Well, Representative Cunningham, I.. I ah... apparently you and I did not communicate with each other on this, at least, not to my complete understanding. It was not my understanding that you had asked me to return this to Second for that purpose. Ah.. I ah.. Because of the lateness of the Session, ah.. I would prefer not to do that at this GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  115. time. I'd be happy to discuss it with you. We could suggest it to the Senate Sponsors. But, I would prefer not to call it back now ah.. on this first day of June in the House."

"Any further discussion? The gentleman care to close?"

"I urge your support."

"The question is, 'shall these two Bills pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. Yourell.. 'aye'. On each of these questions, there is 155 'Ayes' and 1 'Nay'. And, each of these Bills having received the Constitutional majority are hereby declared passed. Alright.. We'll go to Senate Bills Third Reading. Senate Bill 836,"

"Senate Bill 836, an Act to amend Section 7 of 'An Act concerning fees and salaries'. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. O'Hallaren."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd like leave ah.. of the House to ah.. con- sider 836, 837 and 838 as a package, please."

"Is there objection? Hearing none, ah.. the Clerk will read ah.. 837 and 838."

"Ah.. Senate Bill 837, an Act to amend Section 1 of 'An Act fixing and providing for the payment of salaries of State's Attorneys, andsoforth. Third Reading GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  of the Bill. Senate Bill 838, an Act to amend Section 2 of 'An Act to provide for the payment of further compensation to the State's Attorney of Cook County'. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. O'Hallaren."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, as you well know, Senate 836, 7 and 8 are the salary increases for the State's Attorneys and Assistants throughout the entire State of Illinois. Senate Bill 836, is the appropriation that the State will give to each County. At the present time, $7,200 is appropriated to each County. 836, Senate Bill 836 will appropriate the amount of $12,000 to each County. Senate Bill 837 is a breakup of the entire State, population wise, concerning the salaries. Number one in Senate Bill 877, where a County has a population of less than 20,000, the State will give and the County will appro- priate between $8,000 to $15,000. Therefore, the total amount of salaries to the State's Attorney is between $20,000 and $27,000. This, again, is dependent on the County Board. Number two, the population of a County between 20,000 and 80,000, the salaries... the ah.. money will be given between $10,000 to $15,000. And, the total salary will be between $22,000 and $27,000. Item number three in Senate Bill 837 is a population of 80,000 and up. The County Board will give $20,000 plus the State's share of $12,000, total salary of $32,000. But, here in this particular category, there was an Amendment placed on and it was agreed to by all parties GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  117. involved on both sides of the aisle. But, in this particular category, the State's Attorney will not be allowed to engage in the private practice of Law. The State's Attorneys, the Bar Associations have given their full consensus to this measure. House Bill or Senate Bill 838 is the Cook County Bill, actually, with a population of over 1,000,000 or 100,000 which is amended to give the State's Attorney of Cook County a total salary of $42,200. This was agreed to by both sides of the aisle. This was agreed to by the Governor's Office to keep it in line with the Supreme Court. This Bill... These Bills... This package of Bills have been gone on since last May. And, I think, everybody knows what these Bills... Pardon me... What these Bills ah.. are ah.. to be. And, if there are any questions, ah.. I would be glad to answer, if I can. Thank you."

"The gentleman from Union, Mr. Choate."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, let me explain my position as far as these two Bills are concerned. The House recently passed a Bill creating a Commission, a Blue Ribbon Commission, if you please, to study salaries as far as the elected officials of the State are concerned. However, this is a unique problem that con- fronts the Counties as far as some of the Offices are concerned simply because of the budgeting process, simply because some of the Counties are preparing their budgets, at the present time, and will be preparing their budgets in the months to come. And, simply because, in some of the Counties, in most GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  118. of the Counties, I think, the State's Attorneys do take office the first week in December. And, simply because we do not, at this date, know exactly when the Commission will report back as far as salaries are concerned concerning elected State Officers. Now, there's one other problem that's been brought to my attention. And, Representative ah.. The Sponsor ah.., O'Hallaren mentioned it as far as larger Counties are concerned. But, it isn't only the larger Coun- ties that the State's Attorney is affected as far as the pri- vate practice of Law is concerned. Because, in many of your Downstate smaller Counties, the Illinois Bar Association has walked in to the State's Attorney and said, 'No. If you're going to keep your license, you're not going to be permitted to practice Law at the same time'. And, I know this is a fact. And, I know that some of these State's Attorneys draw as low as $14,000 can not possibly subsidize themselves and families to the best of their ability if they're not permitted to practice Law on the side. That's the reason, Mr. Speaker and Members of this House, that I'm going to vote 'aye' on these Bills. If it was not for those reasons, I would sug- gest that they should be held and be studied by the Blue Ribbon Commission. However, because of the circumstances int- volved as far as these Offices are concerned, I'm going to vote 'aye'."

"Yeah... Why don't you gentlemen, right under that back ah.. chandelier, ah.. move out of there for just a few minutes until we check upstairs and see if any of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  the workmen hit it or something. The ah.. gentleman from Cook, Mr. O'Hallaren."

"In line with your saying, Mr. Speaker, ah.. can I push their buttons 'aye' not before they leave?"

"Is there further discussion? The gentle- man care to close? The gentleman from Christian, Mr. Tips- word."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have ah.. some very mixed emotions about these Bills. Part of it arises ah... Part of it arises ah.. from the manner in which the Bills have finally arrived at the House, not these Bills are any- thing that the Sponsors have done, the manner in which those who are interested ah.. away from. this floor have managed to prevent these Bills. And also, I have some mixed emotions because there is a part of these Bills that I support and a part of what the Bills say in the same Bill that I can not support. We created, on the floor of this House, a Commission to study the Office of State's Attorney including the salary, the amount that would be contributed by the State of Illinois, the amount that.. that the salary could be set at, the limits in which it could be set as well as all of the other duties that are encumbant upon the State's Attorney, what should be changed, what should be added, what should be done in this new era where I agree that most State's Attorneys are much busier than they were several years ago. I'm also very much concerned that, in some areas, the salary has been raised pretty sub- stantially in some pretty small Counties in which those State's 119. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  120. Attorneys can still continue to practice Law and practice Law just as fully as they wish to do. And, unfortunately, in some instances, not all, have practiced much more than the duties of their Office would indicate that they should. Because I ah.. like some of the provisions and dislike very much some of the others, and especially, personally resent the manner in which the State's Attorney Offices throughout this State have pushed these Bills over the head of a commis- sion or a Committee appointed by this House, which has never been given the opportunity to act in this area in the manner in which it was created to act, I ask that, on these Bills, I be recorded as 'present'. Because, as they are presented, I can not vote 'no' with a good conscience on all parts of these Bills nor can I, with good conscience, support all parts of these Bills as they are presented at this time. And, I would especially, especially like to make known my very great disappointment that the questions that were to be presented before the Committee, created by this House, were never per- mitted to be examined into. Thank you."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Palmer."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I think ah.. you should note that the Bills, regarding the State's Attorneys salaries, were introduced prior to the time that the House Resolution was introduced to study the Offices of State's Attorneys in Illinois. Some of the problems that are involved in this, in the Committee's work, has to do with,. indirectly, salary, of course, but primarily on the question GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  121. of the State's Attorney in Illinois being allowed to engage in the civil practice of Law, private practice of Law, while at the same time being State's Attorney. And, I think, it's a very serious problem. Examination of that question, though, reveals, on the surface, however, it reveals that we probably would have to go into the Constitutional Amendments in Illi- nois, which we are now studying, to get away from the con- cept of the State's Attorney and go to the District Attorney concept. And, in that way, of course, we would then be able to assign certain Areas of the State of uniform population ah.. one State's Attorney that would do nothing but prosecute Laws, the Criminal Laws of this State, and not be engaged in the ah.. private practice of Law. Now, there was not enough time, obviously, to ah.. get into the question, these ah.. profound questions insofar as the ah.. ah.. salaries are con- cerned. But, I believe, that it will be the recommendation of the Committee ah.. that, in the next Session, add a ah.. Commission, by ah.. ah.. Joint House ah.. and Senate Commis- sion be appointed to study this problem with the probability of acting sometime in 1974 in the Constitutional ah.. on a referendum to change the Constitution in this respect. But ah.., insofar as these Bills are concerned, they ah.. started prior to the time that ah.. that ah.. the Committee started. I might say that two of the Bills of equal import passed out of the House sometime ago and is now over in the Senate. The two that the House Sponsor here, Representative O'Hallaren has presented, is the same as the two... or as two of them GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  that are now in the Senate."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Katz."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the new Constitution that we passed in Illinois would permit small Counties in Illinois to join together and to have a single State's Attorney who would be a professional Law Enforcement Official who would be able to ah.. handle only the criminal matters and not engage in civil matters. Ah.. unfortunately, this Bill provides substantial increases in salaries for the State's Attorneys in the very small Counties. And, the practical effect of this Bill is going to be to build up the salaries of the existing State's Attorneys in small Counties in Illinois so that I am very doubtful that there will be no consolidation of State's Attorneys official offices in the smaller Counties which the new Constitution permits and which would be such an excellent idea in terms of improving Law Enforcement here in Illinois. Ah.. there are Counties in the State where a ah.. State's Attorney, as I understand it, may handle no more than a dozen criminal matter in an entire year. And yet, we will be pro- viding a salary that would pay such a State's Attorney a thousand dollars or more per criminal matter that he will be handling. It really would make much more sense to professionaliz the Office to permit the joining together of State's Attorneys functions in the various Counties as permitted by the new Constitution. And, accordingly, I can not support this Bill because it will, I think, in the long run, be to the detriment GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  of Law Enforcement in Illinois."

"Alright.. We're advised now that ah.. the workmen accidentally hit the cables supporting it. And, that ah.. their appears to be no present problem ah.. with that chandelier. Ah.. the gentleman ah.. from Cook, Mr. O'Hallaren, to close."

"With that in mind, Mr. Speaker, if they'd get back to their seats and push that 'aye' vote, I would appreciate it."

"Alright.. The question is, 'shall these three Bills pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The gentleman from ah.. Cook, ah.. Yes. Tipsword.. 'present'. Ah.. The Clerk will take three Roll Calls. On each of these questions, there are 124 'Ayes', and... Ah.. the Gentleman from Lawrence, Mr. Cunningham.. 'present'. Oh! 'Aye?' 'Aye'. 124... 125 'Ayes', 15 'Nays' and each of these Bills having received the Constitutional majority are hereby declared passed. Now, does the gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Palmer, want what? 2385 called now?"

"Yes.."

"2385. Alright.. Read that."

"House Bill 2385, an Act to provide for the payment of compensation to the State's Attorney of Cook County. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Palmer."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  124. House Bill 2385 is a parallel Bill to Senate Bill 838 which increases the salary of the State's Attorney in Cook County to a total of $42,200 as amended. Ah.. the arguments have been held on it. And, I'd ask a favorable vote."

"Further discussion? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished. The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 125 'Ayes' and 10 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. Alright.. On the Speaker's Table, appears S.J.R. 62 on which the Chair recognizes the Lady from Cook, Mrs. Chapman." E. S. Chapman (Mrs.): "Mr. Speaker, I move to suspend Rule 53b in order to advance S.J.R. 62 to Second Reading without reference to Committee."

"First Reading.. It has not been read a first time and ah.. would have to be. These... These go to Committee and then come out and get 1, 2, 3," E. S. Chapman (Mrs.): "Yes, Sir."

"It would be advancing it to the order of First Reading without reference to Committee." E. S. Chapman (Mrs.): "Thank you, Sir. Ah.. an identical measure H.J.R.C.A. *13 was given a do pass recommendation ah.. with a vote of 15 to 2 a short time ago. It has been traditional when identical Bills come over from the Senate to the House, to pass these Bills along rather than take up the time of Committees which have already given ah.. a recommendation GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  125. regarding the measure. Also, the Legislative Session is drawing to a close. So, in order to get this important mat- ter, the proposal to ratify the Twenty-Seventh Amendment to the U.S. Constitution ah.., to keep it alive and to get action on it in this Session rather than to have it delayed in last minute activities of the Legislature, I hope that every single person in this Body, whether he plans eventually to vote for or against the ah.. Resolution, will vote 'yes' on a motion to advance without reference to Committee."

"The ah.. Lady from DuPage, Mrs. Dyer." R. C. Dyer (Mrs.): "Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that, under Rule 53a, this is frequently done when there is a demonstrable emergency. I would like to point out that! since this is June 1st and our announced date for adjournment is June 9th, ah.. this is a demonstrable emergency. I would also like to point out that this is the one vote that you gentlemen are going to cast this Session that will affect everybody in the United States, not just the people of Illi- nois. This is a issue of overriding importance and we feel that the time that would be spent in Committee should be devoted to debate by the entire House. We think everyone should have a chance to debate on this Bill. And, along the lines of the National significance of this vote, I would like to read to you a telegram that came to Speaker Blair from the White House in Washington D.C. I read this at the request of the Speaker. Dear Speaker Blair: In the Presi- dent's absence, I am pleased to respond to your question re- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  garding his position on the Equal Rights Amendment to the Constitution. President Nixon has a long time record of support. His position was expressed most recently in a letter to Senator Hugh Scott on March 18, 1972. Partial text of the letter follows: As you remember, as a Senator, in 1951 I Co-Sponsored a Resolution incorporating the original Amend- ment. In July of 1968, I reaffirmed my support for it as a candidate for the Presidency. Throughout twenty-one years, I have not altered my beliefs, that Equal Rights for Women, while a Constitutional guarantee, and are, therefore, con- tinued to favor the enactment of the Constitutional Amendment to achieve this goal'. And, it's signed by Barbara Franklin Staff Assistant to President Nixon. For my friends on the other side, I would like to remind them that the two previous Presidents, President Kennedy and President Johnson, endorsed this Amendment in the same strong terms. Therefore, we respectfully request a 'yes' vote on this motion. Thank you.

"The ah.. gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Juckett."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, a motion has been made to by-pass.. to suspend...."

"One.. One moment.. For what purpose does the ah.. gentleman from ah.. Lake, Mr. Matijevich, rise?"

"A point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is this debatable? I think the motion to advance is not debatable but he can explain his vote, I believe." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  127.

"Well, this is a motion to suspend. And ah.., a motion to suspend is ah.. not ah.. is not de- batable. But ah.., in the past ah.., where there has been debate on an issue to suspend, it's been the courtesy of the Chair to.. to allow that. And, perhaps, it might be advisable to ah.. allow it here. Technically, the point is well taken. Alright.. Ah.. the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the motion is to suspend Rule 53b. I'd like to read the ah.. appropriate passages from that Rule. And, it's discussing Resolutions which amend the Constitution of the State of Illinois or the United States. 'No such Resolution shall be advanced without reference to Committee'. It is specific and it is specific for the purpose that this is a momemtous decision that we are making and there must be discus- sion and there must be debate and there must be presentation of both pro and con. Now, let me refer to the original hearing in the Executive Committee when this.. when a similar Resolution, which was previously defeated by the House, came to that Committee. As Chairman, I ruled that the Constitution of Illinois prevented us from hearing it. But, however, the Attorney General has ruled that that provision is Unconsti- tutional. When the Resolution was heard, the Vice-Chairman of the Committee was presiding, a motion was made to pass this Resolution or to do adopt. There was not one word of debate pro or con. There was not a deliberate discussion of the issue in Committee. The Constitution is our Rules and GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  128. procedures prescribed that there shall be discussion. And, contrary to what the Lady from Cook has indicated or inti- mated, there has been no discussion in Committee. And, therefore, I would oppose the by-pass of Committee. I should also like to read the last sentence where it says, 'notwith- standing the provisions of Rule 93a, the provision of 53b may not be suspended except upon a vote of two-thirds of the Members of the House'. This was put in because of the de- liberate nature of this Rule and the absolute necessity for a Committee Hearing on such an important issue. So, to the fellow Members of the House, I would urge you, and especially in this situation, that there not be a deliberate attempt to by-pass debate, to prevent those people who are in favor of this Amendment from testifying before the Committee, and likewise, for those who are in opposition to prevent them from testifying. We are not acting in a closed society. And, if we are in favor or if we are against, we should have nothing to fear from having public debate on this issue. And, I would urge a 'no' vote to by-pass Committee."

"The ah.. Well, we're not going open this up now for... The gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich.

"Mr. Speaker and Members, I move the previous question."

"Alright.. All those in favor say 'aye' the opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the previous ques- tion has been moved. Now, we're on the Lady from ah.. Cook, ah.. Mrs. Chapman, ah.. motion to suspend the provisions of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  129. Rule 53b. That requires ah.., on the Rule, two-thirds of the Members of the House which is 118 votes. Now, for what purpose does the gentleman from Cook, Mr. B. B. Wolfe, rise?'

"A point of parliamentary inquiry, if the Chair please."

"Alright.."

"Ah.. did I understand the Speaker to say that the Bill has not been read or the Resolution has not been read the First time yet?"

"That's right."

"Well, does that ah.. Isn't that the prerogative of the Chair, at this point of ah.. of reading the Resolution the First time? And, then after it's read, ah.. the reference to the Committee would then be the proper order or procedure and then the motion could be undertaken? It would seem to me that we're kind of a little in advance here, a little jump of the gun."

"No. Ah.. these, under the Rule, ah.. go from ah.. Introduction to Committee and they come out of Committee on First Reading... on First Reading, then Second and then Third. So, what she's asking is that that Rule be suspended so that the Resolution need not go to Committee but be placed on the Calendar on the order of First Reading. And, gentleman from McLean, Mr. Bradley."

"Mr. Speaker, ah.. a parliamentary inquiry on the point that Representative Juckett brought up on 53b ah.. that ah.. a Constitutional Amendment, such as this is, ah.. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  130. must go to a Committee. Are we able to ah.. to take a vote on this motion?"

"Well, as I pointed out ah.. just a moment ago, at the conclusion of the Rule clearly states that the provisions of Rule 53b may not be suspended except on a vote of two-thirds of the Members of the House. So, she's putting a motion to suspend ah.. so that it could be advanced ah.. to the order of First Reading without reference. And, that is in order and it requires 118 ah.. votes. For what purpose does the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Harold Washington, rise?"

"A parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Speaker."

"Alright.."

"Ah.. am I in error in interpreting 53b to mean a Resolution that originates in the House or does it include, as in this case, a Resolution originated in the Senate?"

"Ah.. it says all Resolutions proposing changes. And, I would take that to mean whether they be House or Senate. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Shea."

"A parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Speaker."

"Yes. State your point."

"Does 53b cover both Amendments to our Constitution and ratification of ah.. of the Federal?"

"Yes. It says, 'all Resolutions proposing changes in the United States Constitution shall require for adoption a three-fifths Constitutional majority'. As you re- call, the Attorney General's issue of opinion, which is in conflict with that Rule, I have ruled that the Attorney Gener- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  al's opinion will be the ah.. guide as far as the Chair is concerned. And, that only 89 votes will be required for passage on Third Reading if it had to go ah.. Well, when it gets to Third Reading. Alright.. Are there any further in- quiries. The Lady from ah.. DuPage, ah.. Mrs. Dyer." R. C. Dyer (Mrs.): "Ah.. this is a parliamentary inquiry too ah.. following the sentence that, 'Resolutions proposing changes in the United States Constitution requires a Con- stitutional majority'. Then, we come to the last sentence that ah.. the suspension of 53b, 'except on a vote of two- thirds of the Members of the House'. Well now, if we are successful in suspending 53b, wouldn't that also suspend ah. two-thirds requirement? How do you...."

"Well, no. She's put the question to the Chair on the basis of wanting to suspend the Rule for the purpose of ah.. advancing the.. the ah.. Resolution ah.. without reference to Committee to the order of First Reading And, that's the purpose for which she is proposing to suspend.. to suspend the Rule. Now, if she gets 118 votes for that, it would be on First Reading and then would progress to Second Reading and then to Third Reading. The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Simmons."

"A parliamentary inquiry."

"Alright.. State your point."

"I haven't seen Attorney General Scott's opinion. But, if it does what you said it does, and requires only 89, then wouldn't that opinion also be applicable to this Rule GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  that we're trying to suspend?"

"No. The question was not put to the Attorney General concerning ah.. that part of Rule 53b. The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. William Walsh."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I don't think that you addressed yourself to the inquiry of the Lady from DuPage. Her point was that, if you suspend Rule 53b, that incorporated in Rule 53b is the requirement that it take 118 votes, you then, therefore, suspend that requirement. And, it seems to me that we return to the 89 vote requirement."

"No. Ah.. you have to, first, suspend the Rule before it's suspended. And, that purpose requires 118 votes. It is there until it's suspended. And, the Rule says that 'it can only be suspended upon a two-thirds vote of the Members'. That's 118. And further... The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Walsh."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I.. I don't recall any Rule that could not be suspended by a.. by 89 Members of this House. It seems to me that ah.. ah.. that any Rule there is, I mean, even the Rule to ah.. ah.. overrule the ruling of the Chair, would require 89 votes."

"95."

"Well, I know that. I know that the Rule says that. But, to suspend that Rule, would take 89 votes."

"Well, you suspend in accordance with the Rules and that's what we're doing."'

"Well, if that's your ruling, fine." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  133.

"Well, it is and ah.. we're.. The Rule says that, 'in order to suspend the provisions of 53b will require a two-thirds vote of the Members'. And, she had asked for a limited suspension of 53b which is soley for the pur- pose of having this Bill be advanced to the order ah.. Resolu- tion advanced to the order of First Reading without being ah.. ah.. referred to Committee. And, my ruling is that, in order for them to accomplish that, it will require 118 votes If they would accomplish that, then the Resolution would be appeared tomorrow on the Calendar on the order of Constitu- tional Amendments First Reading. Alright.. The question is 'shall the motion to suspend for the purpose requested pre- vail?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. The ah.. gentleman from Macon, Mr. Borchers."

"Mr. Speaker and Fellow Members of the House, in voting 'no', I'm doing so because, in my Area, I have been in-. formed by a group of individuals that they wish to testify on this Bill. And, I do not think that I have a right or we have a right to deny them the right testify. So, that's why I'm voting 'no'."

"Ah.. the ah.. Lady from Cook, Mrs. Chapman." E. S. Chapman (Mrs.): "Mr. Speaker, I respectfully request the Poll of the Absentees."

"Alright.. The Lady ah... When we announce the vote, why we will Poll the Absentees. Ah.. have all ah. voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  134. question, there are 89 'Ayes' and 61 'Nays'. And, the Clerk will proceed to Poll the Absentees."

"Brandt.. Calvo.. Carrigan.. Jimmy Carter.. William Cunningham.. DiPrima.. Downes.. Graham.. Hanahan..

Hirschfeld.. Hon. W. Robert Blair: "Hirschfeld.. 'no'."

"Karmazyn.. Keller.. Klosak.. Laurino.. Lechowicz.. Leon.. Lindberg.. M. Madigan.. McCormick.. McDermott.. Moore.. Murphy.. Ike Sims.. J. J. Wolf.. J. J. Wolf.. 'no'."

"J. J. Wolf.. 'no'."

"Zlatnik.."

"Hall.. 'no'. How's the gentleman from McLean, Mr. Hall, recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as voting 'no'." Hon. W. Robert B₁air: "Alright.. Ah.. on this question, there are 89 'Ayes', 63 'Nays'. And ah.., the Lady's motion ah.. to suspend 53b for the purpose requested ah.. fails. Alright.. House Bills Second Reading. House Bill 4082."

"House Bill 4082, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the State's Civil Service Commission. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any from the floor?"

"Amendment No. 1, Lauterbach, amend House Bill 4082 in line 12 by deleting '133,800' andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Peoria, Mr. Lauter- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  bach."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, our Civil Service Commission wishes to seek leave of the House to withdraw the Amendment No. 1, which is offered, and move this Bill in its original form."

"Does the gentleman have leave to with- draw? The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Simmons."

"Ah.. what did the Amendment do? What does the Amendment do that he's seeking to..."

"Alright.. The gentleman from Cook is asking what the Amendment, that you're asking leave to with- draw, would have done."

"The Amendment originally had increased the amount of appropriation to cover additional personnel that they felt they needed. They're now asking for it to be with- drawn."

"Any further questions? Third Reading. 4083."

"House Bill 4083, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses for the De- partment of Aeronautics. Second Reading of the Bill. One Committee Amendment. Amend House Bill 4083 on page 3, by deleting Section 4; and on page 4, Section 5, line 4, by de- leting Sections 3 and 4 and inserting in lieu thereof 'Section 3'."

"Alright.. The gentleman from Sangamon, Mr. Jones." 135. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  136.

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this Amendment reduces the appropriation by $400,000 ah.. for the hanger for the Department of Aeronautics. And, I move its adoption at this time."

"Alright.. Is there discussion? The gentleman moves the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 1. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amend- ments?"

"Amendment No. 2, Regner, amend House Bill 4083...."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Regner."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I wish to withdraw that Amendment. After conferring with the Department, ah.. we realize that ah.. it to be out of order at this time."

"Alright.. Does the gentleman have leave to withdraw? Alright.. Amendment No. 2 is withdrawn. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Richard Walsh."

"Well ah.. Mr. Speaker, just ah.. ah.. point of inquiry. These Amendment that are being withdrawn, are they Committee Amendments? There not Committee Amendments?"

"No, it's a floor Amendment, the Clerk advises. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Simmons."

"Now ah.., I was trying to follow that Committee Amendment No. 2. But ah.., Number one eliminated ah.. Section GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  137. 4 of the Bill and did not ah.. renumber Section 5. Did the Committee Amendment No. 2 renumber Section 5? Well, if that was withdrawn, I believe, then that ah.. Section 5 of the Bill should be renumbered as Section 4. And, Section 6 should be Section 5."

"No. It appears to be in order. It appears to be in order. The ah.. On Page 3, they're simply deleting 'Section 4'. And, then when they come over on reference in.. in ah.. in Section 5...."

"Well, when the Bill was written.... He'll... He'll ah.. skip a number."

"Well, the ah.. Alright.. Ah.. we're going to hold it to.. to make that correction as the last two Sections ah.. should be renumbered ah.. with lower numbers. So, we'll... That's an easy correction to make. But, we'll hold it on Second until they get the proper Amendment adopted. 4129."

"House Bill 4129, an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses for the Pollution Control Board. Second Reading of the Bill. One Committee Amendment! Amend House Bill 4129, Section 1, by striking lines 10 through 22 and inserting in lieu thereof the following:"

"The ah.. gentleman from Cook, Mr. Burditt."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is a Committee Amendment which reduces the total appropriation down to $927,300. And, I move the adoption of the Amendment." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Hon. W. Robert Blair: "Is there discussion? All those in favor of the adoption of the Amendment say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. 4131."

"House Bill 4131, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses...."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Burditt."

"Committee Amendment No. 1, amend House Bill 4131, andsoforth."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is another ah.. a Committee Amendment, to House Bill 4131, which reduces several of the appropriations throughout the Bill. Ah.. the total is $1,552,100. I move the adoption of the Amendment."

"Discussion? All those in favor of the adoption of the Amendment say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. 4139."

"House Bill 4139, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Environ- mental Protection Agency. Second Reading of the Bill. One Committee Amendment. Amend House Bill 4139 on Page 1, Section 1, andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Burditt."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Committee Amendment No. 1 is, again, a reduction Amendment which reduces the total amount to $6,859,900. I GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  move the adoption of the Amendment."

"Any ah.. discussion? The question is on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 2, Burditt, amend House Bill 4139 on Page 1, andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Burditt."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, this is ah.. not a Committee Amendment but I have discussed it with Representative Lechowicz. It deletes the words 'U.S. Public Health Services' and inserts in lieu thereof 'U.S. Environmental Protection'. It's ah.. simply a form Amendment and I move its adoption."

"Alright.. Is there discussion? All those in favor of the adoption of the Amendment say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. 4252."

"42.. What number did you say? Yeah, it's here."

"Alright.. 4252."

"House Bill 4252, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Secretary of State. Second Reading of the Bill. One Committee Amend- ment. Amend House Bill....."

"The gentleman from, DuPage, Mr. Philip."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 4252, is a Committee Amendment. - GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  140. It deletes all of the job titles to conform to the new Code which is the Secretary of State's Code. I move the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 1."

"Discussion? The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Shea."

"What.. What does the Amendment do again?"

"It deletes all of the job titles to conform with the ah.. merit system that the Secretary of State's Office is going under."

"Well, what... Would you kind of explain what deletes all of the job titles means? This is probably one of the most controversial issues is the method under which the Secretary of State's Office is going under a merit system, if you call it. And, I.. I just would like a little more explanation."

"Well, all the Amendment does is, in the appropria- tion, to strike all of the job titles. And, the Secretary of Office... of State's Office tells me this is so that it con- forms with going under the Code which, as you know, they've already gone under the Code."

"Would you... Would you hold this until we get a copy of the Amendment?"

"Sure."

"Thank you."

"Alright.. Take it out of the record. 4260."

"House Bill 4260, a Bill for an Act to pro- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Local Government Affairs. Second Reading of the Bill. Two Committee Amendments. Committee Amendment No. 1, amend House Bill 4260 on Page 2, Line 14, andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bluthardt, on the Amendment."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, Committee Amendment No. 1 is ah.. an Amendment that corrects the spel- ling of a few words and corrects a $400 error in multiplica- tion. And, I would move for the adoption of Committee Amend- ment No. 1."

"Discussion? All those in favor of the adoption of the Amendment say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted."

"Committee Amendment No. 2, amend House Bill 4260 on Page 1, Sectionl, Line 10, by striking $1,336,300' and inserting in lieu thereof $1,306,300', andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bluthardt.

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, Commit- tee Amendment No. 2 reduces the overall appropriation by the sum of $2,334,000, $2,000,000 of which comes from grants to local authorities and ah.. $2,300,000, that is, and $34,000 in General Administration. I move for the adoption of Commit- tee Amendment No. 2."

"Any discussion? The question is on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  142. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. 4094."

"House Bill 4094, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Bureau of the Budget. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. 4084.".

"House Bill 4084, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Illinois Commerce Commission. Second Reading of the Bill. One Commit- tee Amendment, amend House Bill 4084 on Page 1, Line 27, andsoforth."

"For what purpose does the gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Lechowicz, rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, I would hope that this Bill would be taken out of the record. 4420."

"House Bill 4420, a Bill for an Act to amend 'The School Code'. Second Reading of the Bill. One Committee Amendment. Amend House Bill 4420 on Page 1, Line 31, andso- forth."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Schlickman." E. F. Schlickman; "Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Committee Amendment, to House Bill 4420, does two things. Number one, it increases from two years to three years the period of time that a scholarship recipient is to serve as a teacher in the designated Area before qualifying for the scholarship. Number two, there is provided a five GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  143. percent interest charge in the event that the individual does not complete the three years and is required to pay back a part of the scholarship. This is a Committee Amendment and I move for its adoption."

"Any discussion? The question is on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 2, Berman, amend House Bill 4420, as amended, on Page 1, in each of Lines 1, 6 and 9, by striking '30-15.7d' and inserting in lieu thereof '30-14.2'; andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Berman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Amendment was discussed at the time the Bill was presented in the House Education Committee. Ah.. it wasn't drafted at that time but it was discussed. The purpose of the Amendment is to put the ah.. supervision of the provisions of this ah.. ah.. Bill into the Office of the Superintendent of Public Instruc- tion ah.. where there are already ah.. facilities and staff to supervise the ah.. the ah.. handling of these ah.. scholar- ships. I would ask for the ah.. affirmative vote and support for Amendment No. 2, to House Bill 4420."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Schlickman."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 4420, as it was introduced, provided that this program would be administered by the Scholarship Commis- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  sion. By the Amendment offered by the gentleman from Cook, the administration of the program would be transferred from the Scholarship Commission to the Superintendent of Public Instruction. The Bill provided for the administration with the Scholarship Commission because the Bill had been developed by the cooperation with the cooperation of the Scholarship Commission. The Scholarship Commission, however, at this time, does not administer any scholarship programs ah.. with regard to teachers while the Superintendent of Public Instruc- tion is now administering a program ah.. that does deal with Special Education."

"Further discussion? The question is on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have... Try it again. All those in favor of the adoption of the Amendment say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. 4488."

"House Bill 4488, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to Farm Transportation. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. 4499."

"House Bill 4499, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to Charles E. Johnson. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any from the floor? Third Reading. 4505." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  145.

"House Bill 4505, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Clerk of the Supreme Court. Second Reading of the Bill. One Committee Amendment. Amend House Bill 4505...."

"Alright.. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Regner."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Amendment reduces the total appropriation by $4,500. And, I'd move for the adoption of Committee Amend- ment No. 1, to House Bill 4505."

"Discussion? All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. 4522."

"House Bill 4522, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Depart- ment of Finance. Second Reading of the Bill. One Committee Amendment, amend House Bill 4522 on Page 4, by striking Lines 16 through 29; and on Page 4, Line 30, by striking '3' and...."

"The gen tleman from ah.. Cook, ah.. Mr. ah.. Regner."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. Amendment No. 1, to ah.. House Bill 4522, is a reduction of a million and a half dollars from the original request. And, I'd move for the adoption of Committee Amend- ment No. 1, to House Bill 4522."

"Alright.. Discussion? All those... The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. ah.. Shea." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  146. .W. Shea: "Ah.. will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will." . W. Shea: "Dave, is just the money for the operation of the Department? This isn't refund money or anything else?"

"No. This is ah.. some capital money, Gerry, for a computer blockhouse that they had asked for."

"Yeah.. But, this isn't the Bill that we discussed. I see Representative Madigan isn't here. But now, we talked and discussed about the additional money for income tax re- funds. And, this has nothing to do with that?"

"No. That would be the Department of Revenue, Gerry."

"Well, alright."

"Any ah.. further discussion? The ques- tion is on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the ayes' have it and the Amend- ment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Read- ing. 4528."

"House Bill 4528, a Bill for an Act in rela- tion to the reinstitutional cooperation in higher education. Second Reading of the Bill. One Committee Amendment, amend House Bill 4528 on Page 3, Section 6, Line 20, by striking '$1,000,000' and inserting inserting in lieu thereof '$590, 000'."

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Henss."

"Mr. Speaker, ah.. Committee Amendment No. 1 re- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  duces by $410,000. I move for its adoption." 147.

"Discussion: All those in favor of the adoption of the Amendment say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. 4640."

"House Bill 4640, a Bill for an Act to amend Section 11-135-1, andsoforth, of the 'Illinois Municipal Code'. Second Reading of the Bill. Ah.. no Committee Amendments."

"Any from the floor?"

"Amendment No. 1, George O'Brien, amend House Bill 4640 on Page 2 by deleting Lines 6, 7 and 8 and inserting in lieu thereof the following: andsoforth."

"Discussion? All those in favor of the adoption of the Amendment say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes have it and the Amendment is adopted. Any further Amendments? Third Reading. 4644."

"House Bill 4644, a Bill for an Act to amend Section 2 and 3 of the 'Illinois Income Tax Act'. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Amendments from the floor?"

"Amendment No. 1, Duff,...."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Duff."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House ah.. this Amendment is the result of conversation in the Revenue Committee and with the experts on the Bill and the Department of Revenue as well as Members on the other side of the aisle. It ah.. Enclosed in the Bill, ah.. Government GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  148. Retirement Plans and of Governmental Agencies and Units and eliminates an error that was made resulting in a double de- duction of ah.. lump sum payments in pensions. I move the Amendment... the adoption of the Amendment."

"Discussion? The question is on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. 4653."

"House Bill 4653, an appropriation to the Department of Finance. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. 4665."

"House Bill 4665, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to the Board of Governors of State Colleges and Universities. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. 4670."

"House Bill 4670, a Bill for an Act to amend Section 6 of the 'Illinois Horse Racing Act'. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. 4671."

"House Bill 4671, a Bill for an Act to amend Section 8 of the Fair Exposition and Authority Reconstruction Act'. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  149.

"Any from the floor? Third Reading. 4672.",

"House Bill 4672, a Bill for an Act to amend the 'Cigarette Tax Act'. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. 4673."

"House Bill 4673, a Bill for an Act to amend the 'State Finance Act'. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any from the floor? Third Reading. 4628."

"House Bill 4628, a Bill for an Act to authorize Units of Government in the State of Illinois to issue full faith in credit tax and anticipation notes. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. 4649.".

"House Bill 4649, a Bill for an Act to amend 'The Revenue Act'. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. Alright.. Ah.. Senate Bills First Reading. Senate Bill 1365."

"Senate Bill 1365, a Bill for an Act to amend 'The Counties Act'. First Reading of the Bill."

"Ah.. the gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Pappas."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, could you read ah.. 6566 and 67 as a package? And, I'd like to make a motion after they've been read."

"Alright.. Does the gentleman have leave? Alright.. Have those Senate Bills read."

"Senate Bill 1366, a Bill for an Act to amend 'The Municipal Code'. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1367, an Act to authorize the Department of Revenue to make certain refunds. First Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Pappas."

"Mr. Speaker, ah.. I would like to ah.. move to sus pend the appropriate Rule and have these Bills advanced to Second without a reference to Committee. I've discussed this with the Minority Leader, Mr. Choate and with the Speaker and.. and it's clear as far as they're concerned."

"Where is the Appropriation Bill? It's not in that series?"

"No, it's not in this series.."

"Oh!"

"It's ah.. 1582 is the Appropriation Bill."

"Oh! Alright.. Ah.. the gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Shea."

"Ah.. Pete, will you hold these on Second long enough for us to get an Amendment on. I'm curious about one thing, the language of the Bill. We collected the revenue in this GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  151. fiscal year, but we're making the expenditure out of the next fiscal year. And, I'm very curious as to why we're doing that."

"The reason for that, if I.. I can explain it now, it's my understanding, by the time the Department of Revenue gets all of the forms out to the various people and by the time they get back, they would then be in fiscal '73 appro- priations. So, rather than having to try and rush the '72 to use it up before and then have to reappropriate, so that's why they're doing it in '73 to have enough time to pay out these refunds."

"Alright.."

"The ah.. gentleman from McLean, Mr. Hall."

"Mr. Speaker, ah.. I would ask leave of the House to have ah.. Senate Bills 1524 and 1525 heard in the ah... Revenue Committee today. Ah.. I've checked with the other side on these two Bills and there's no objection and there's no objection with the Committee Chairman."

"Alright. Yes, leave was given to advance 1365, 1366 and 1367 to the order of Second Reading without ah.. reference. Alright.. Is there leave? Alright.. Hearing no objection, then those two Bills may be heard in ah.. Revenue Committee this afternoon. Okay.. Alright.. The gentleman from Cook, ah.. Mr. DiPrima. The gentleman from... Just one moment. The gentle... Alright.. Go ahead."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, in accordance with Rule 53b, I would ask for the suspension of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  152. the Rules and ask leave of the House for the purpose of ad- vancing Senate Bill 1532 to Second Reading without reference to a Committee. Now, what this Bill does is to protect the interest of Veterans overseas who have been reported lost or missing. Questions have been raised by title companies and on the use of Power of Attorneys executed by overseas Veterans in the transfers of Real Estate. Now, this Bill would resolve this problem and give the Power of Attorneys that prerogative."

"The gentleman ah.. Is there objection to ah.. having Senate Bill 1532 advanced to the order of Second Reading without reference to a Committee? Hearing no objection, leave granted. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Sims sought objection? No? No.. Oh! Okay.. Second Reading. Now, the gentleman from ah.. Lake, Mr. Kleine have a similar motion?"

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd like to have leave of the House to suspend the appropriate Rule for a ah.. a Bill that was just introduced, an Emergency Bill, 4678. Ah.. this Bill deals with the ah.. impending situation that is developing on Lake Michigan with regard to the ill-water situation. And, I would ask leave of the House to advance it to Second Reading. I've checked with ah.. both Leader... with the Leadership on both sides. And, I ask for leave."

"Well, wait till we read it on the order of Introductions before we entertain the motion. Okay? We haven't got to Introductions yet. We haven't even, you know GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  gotten to that. Wait until we get them and then renew your motion. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Granata."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I want to take this occasion to introduce to the Members of the House the Hatch School of Oak Park with their Teacher, Mrs. Morschoski and their Assistant Donna Marianni. They're up there in the Gallery, half of them are deaf and dumb. It's a Graduating Class too."

"Alright.. On Senate Bills First, ah.. 1325."

"Senate Bill 1325, appropriation for expense to the Military and Naval Department. First Reading of the Bill."

"1360. Let's get these Senate Bills first read and then we'll...."

"Senate Bill 1360, appropriation for the expense of the Auditor of Public Accounts. First Reading of the Bill."

"1327."

"1327, appropriation for the expenses of the Office of Commissioners Savings and Loans. First Reading of the Bill."

"1354."

"1354, an appropriation relating to the State Treasurer. First Reading of the Bill."

"1355."

"Senate Bill 1355, an appropriation to the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  154. State Treasurer. First Reading of the Bill."

"1356."

"1356, an appropriation relating to the State Treasurer. First Reading of the Bill."

"1357."

"1357, an appropriation relating to the expenses of the State Treasurer. First Reading of the Bill.

"1371."

"Senate Bill 1371, an appropriation for the expenses of the Lieutenant Governor. First Reading of the Bill."

"1438."

"Senate Bill 1438, an appropriation for ex- penses of the Racing Board. First Reading of the Bill."

"1439."

"1439, an appropriation for the expenses of the Department of Mines and Minerals. First Reading of the Bill."

"1463."

"1463, an appropriation for the Teacher's Retirement System. First Reading of the Bill."

"1489."

"1489,...."

"The gentleman from ah.."

"an Act to create.. to promote the education of the children of this State, andsoforth."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Schlick- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  man." 155.

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I request that Senate Bill 1492 and 1499 be read for a First time. And, then after that has occurred, I should, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, like to make a motion with respect to Senate Bills 1489 and 1498 and 1499.

"Does the gentleman have leave? Alright. He's asking leave to just have them read a First time. And, I'm prepared to go ahead and have those read. So, then he can address himself to those. Alright.. Would you read 1492 and 1499."

"Senate Bill 1492, an Act to promote the education of children. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1499, an Act creating the Illinois Education Board. First Reading of the Bill."

"Alright.. The gentleman from ah.. Cook Mr. Schlickman."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise to move that 38 be suspended in order that these Bills could be advanced to the order of Second Reading with- out referral to Committee. Last year, the Legislature, twice, passed programs of State Aid to non-public schools. The first program passed in June of 1971 was based on the recommenda- tion of the Elementary and Secondary non-public Schools Study Commission. The second program was consistent with the recommendations of the Governor, which recommendations were GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  156. in respond to the United State's Supreme Court decision. The second program passed by the Legislature and approved by the Governor was reviewed by the Illinois Supreme Court which found that these Bills were not effective until this July 1st. The Court furthermore, in dictum, said that 'upon fur- ther review, it would find that the Governor had exceeded the Constitutional authority in making a recommendation'. In other words, in January of this year, the Illinois Supreme Court completely avoided the first Amendment issue that's the heart of the matter. For the purpose of avoiding any technicality and assuring a consultation with the basic issue by the Supreme Court, these Bills have been reintroduced in identical form and substance with but two exceptions. Number one, the appropriations have been placed in a separate Bill. Number two, there is a repealer Section in each. The public policy, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the public policy issue of State Aid to non-public schools has been thoroughly discussed and disposed of by this Body. For this reason, I do respectfully move that Senate Bills 1489, 1492 and 1499 be advanced to the order of Second Reading without referral to the Committee. Because we're going into a new fiscal year, I am not asking that the Rules be suspended with respect to Senate Bills 1496, 1497 and 1498 which con- tained the appropriation. I've discussed this motion with the Leadership of both sides and solicit your support."

"Alright.. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. William Walsh." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  157.

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I oppose the gentleman's motion, not as an opponent of these Bills, because approximately one year ago, I voted for what he says are substantially the same Bills. I oppose them because they go right to the heart of the operation of this House. By suspending this Rule for a Bill that has not been heard in this House Committee on Education in this Session, I think, is absolutely wrong and should be fought. Now, Mr. Speaker, we, in the Education Committee, have the time. I've talked to the Chairman. We have next week to handle these Bills. We can hear testimony on them and deliberate, and hopefully, pass them. Mr. Speaker, since these Bills passed the House and Senate about a year ago, the Courts of the various States have rendered decisions on aid to private schools. The Supreme Court has.. has had several opinions on them. I think, that the Education Committee should have an opportunity to review these decisions. We should have an opportunity to review these Bills and find out why the Illi- nois Supreme Court found them objectionable, and perhaps, come up with a better product than would come out otherwise. So, I submit, again, that I opposed these Bills because they go to the operation of this House, which by suspending Rules time after time, is not orderly. And, I urge you to vote 'no' on the gentleman's motion."

"The ah.. gentleman from Cook, Mr. Douglas."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, something highly pertinent to the eventual decision that we GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  158. will make on these Bills, even if they are the same as the Bills that we acted on before, took place only one month ago. In April, the question of State Aid to non-public schools was rejected in three separate Court Cases. And, I think, it's extremely important that we recognize that these actions, even though it might be in many people's eyes expedi- ent to go around the Committee structure, these actions might well make an enormous amount of difference in decisions that might be made in Committee. And, while the debate on the issue themselves, I think, are something to save for a future date, I would support Representative Walsh and ask that the Committee structure of this House be used effectively and properly so that these Bills can receive the kind of hearing in Committee that they can never hear on the floor of the House."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Simmons."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, although I have been an opponent of this concept, ah. ever since I've been here, I think, everybody will agree that aid to non-public schools is a very vital and important issue. And, therefore, I think, that the Sponsor himself should think twice before even asking it to be advanced with- out reference. These Bills, if they're good now, they might come out of the Committee better. And, I.. I think, it be- hooves all of us to look at this whole package as carefully as we can. So, if it is acted upon in the affirmative, it will be done properly. And, therefore, I.. I would also object GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  to having it advanced without reference."

"Further discussion? The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Henss."

"Mr. Speaker, I would also like to object to by- passing Committee. These Bills, in the form that they are now in, have never been heard in House Committee, not this year and not last year. I think that ah.. it is very pertinent to note that, since the Committee has : heard any Bills on this subject, there have been eight straight Court decisions adverse to this type of aid to the private schools. And, that some Committee analysis of these Bills would certainly seem to be indicated."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Rayson, "

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I too, oppose this motion and, I think, for the reasons expressed by the last gentle- man. Ah.. I have voted for these ah.. Bills before and then they were substantively amended ah.. last Fall. But, sim e the time that we passed the Bills in their substantive form, and as the last gentleman spoke, there has been three U.S. Supreme Court Cases, three Federal District Court Cases in- volving, at least, six jurisdictions. And, it's a very good reason to prune these Bills very carefully."

"Further.. Alright.. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Schlickman, to close."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, 1971 the issue, the public policy issue of State Aid to non-public elementary and secondary schools was considered GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  160. It re- The three times by the Illinois House of Representatives. ceived ample consideration and was passed by this House. issue today is not public policy. The issue today is Consti+ tutionality and its fiscal ah.. ability. The matter of fiscal ability will be resolved by the three Appropriation Bills being referred to the Appropriation Committee. Regarding Constitutionality, yes, there has been some decisions since June of 1971. However, only one has the United State's Supreme Court, since then, handed down the decision and that had to do with the Constitution of the State of Missouri. There were some lower Court ah.. decisions at the District level. But, in not one of those instances were the facts, the issues, that are created by these three Bills, resolved. It is my interest ah.. to be expeditious ah.. to once and for all have the matter concluded. And, by the reintroduction of these Bills, in identical form and substance as to those which were passed by the Legislature, by the House, by the Senate in November, we hope to get this back to the Illinois Supreme Court so that the Bills, unfettered by any technical issues, ah.. can be reviewed, ah.. the basic issue can be looked at and once and for all, we can have a definitive decision. again, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, respectfully request that the motion to suspend Rule 38 so that these three Bills may be advanced to the order of Second Reading and be adopted." I,

"Alright.. The gentleman's motion is to suspend the provisions of Rule 4la. Ah.. this is a Senate GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  161. Bill. These are Senate Bills. So ah.., that requires 89 affirmative votes. And ah.., is there leave for one Roll Call? Alright.. Ah.. all those in favor of the gentleman's motion to suspend will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Douglas."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I.. I feel that it's wise, in explaining my vote, to answer ah.. the statement just made by Mr. Schlickman. I'd like to just quote something that most of you have on your desks. 'In the Pennsylvania Ruling, the Court declared that the State has no more power to subsi- dize parents in providing a religious education for their children than it has to subsidize the Church related Schools to do so'. This, of course, will be discussed later and I hope that it will be discussed in Committee. But, it clearly indicates that one Court decision was enormously important in making a difference between the situation last year and this year."

"Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. Alright.. Ah.. the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Schlickman."

"Mr. Speaker, may I have a Poll of the Absen- tees?"

"Alright.. Poll.the Absentees."

"Barnes.. Bartulis.."

"Bartulis,. 'no'."

"Bradley.."

"The gentleman from ah.. McLean, Mr. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Bradley."

"How am I recorded, Mr. Speaker?"

"How's the gentleman recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'.

"Please vote me 'aye'."

"Record the gentleman 'aye'."

"Brummet.. Caldwell.. Calvo.. Jimmy Carter.. Davis.. Dyer.. Epton.. Ewell.. Fleck.. Garmisa.. Hall. Hanahan.. Karmazyn.. Katz.. Klosak.. Lindberg.."

"Karmazyn.. 'aye'."

"McDermott.. Meyer.. Peter Miller.. Murphy.. Nowlan.. Palmer.. Philip.. Regner.. Rose.. Schisler.."

"Rose..''no'. Dyer.. 'aye'. Schisler.. How's the.. The gentleman from Rulton, Mr. Schisler."

"Mr. Speaker.. Mr. Speaker, I want to vote 'no'.

"Alright.. Record the gentleman 'no'.

"Sevcik.. Timothy Simms.. Stedelin.. Telcser.. Jack Thompson.. Tipsword.. Von Boeckman.. Wall. R. Walsh.."

"Richard Walsh.. 'no'."

"Genoa Washington.."

"Genoa Washington.. 'no'."

"Harold Washington.. J. J. Wolf.."

"Jake Wolf.. 'no'."

"Yourell.."

"Yourell.. 'aye'. Garmisa.. How's the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  gentleman recorded?"

"The ah.. gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'."

"He wishes to be recorded as 'aye'. The gentleman from McLean, Mr. Hall. How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'."

"'No'. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Barnes. How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'."

"Record him as 'aye'. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Katz. How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'."

"'No'. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Zlatnik. How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Your.. You're recorded as voting 'aye'. The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. ah.. Wall. How.. How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'."

"Record the gentleman as 'aye'. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. McAvoy. How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Alright.. He's alright. The gentleman from Cook, ah.. Mr. Miller. How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'."

"Record the gentleman 'aye'. The gentle- man from ah.. Cook, Mr. Telcser. How's he recorded?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Fredric B. Selcke: "The gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'." 164.

"Record him as 'aye'. Caldwell.. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Caldwell. How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'."

"Record him as 'aye'. The gentleman from Madison, Mr. Calvo, is recorded as 'not voting'. Record him as 'aye'. The gentleman from ah.. Tazewall, Mr. Von Boeckman. How.. How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'."

"Record him as...."

"Voting 'aye', Mr. Chairman."

"Alright.. 'Aye'. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Davis. How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'."

"Alright.. Record him as 'aye'. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Philip... DuPage, Mr. Philip."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. How am I recorded?."

"How's the gentleman recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'."

"'No'."

"Record the gentleman 'no'. Proceed. The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr... I mean from Ogle, Mr. Brinkmeier. How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Okay.. On this question, there are 93 'Ayes', and 62 'Nays'. The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. William Walsh." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  165.

"Mr. Speaker, I ah. respectfully request a Veri- fication."

"Alright.. The Members will be in their seats now. A Verification of this Roll call has been re- quested. Let's get in our seats so ah.. we.. that the gentle- man who has requested the verification will have an opportunity to. Alright.. Proceed to ah.. verify with the affirmative votes starting."

"Alsup.. Arrigo.. Barnes.. Barry.. Berman.. Boyle.. Bradley.. Brandt.. Brinkmeier.. Caldwell.. Calvo.. Campbell.. Capparelli.. Capuzi.. Carrigan.. Carroll.. Richard Carter.. Chapman.. Colitz.. Otis Collins.. Philip Collins.. Conolly.. Corbett.. Craig.. Davis.. DiPrima.. Downes.. Dyer.. Fary.. Fennessey.. Flinn.. Garmisa.. Gibbs.. Giorgi.. Granata.. Hamilton.. Hill.. Hirschfeld.. Gene Hoffman.. Holloway.. Houde.. Houlihan. Hyde.. Jacobs.. Janczak.. Jones.. Karmazyn.. Keller.. Kennedy.. Kleine.. Krause.. Laurino.. Lechowicz.. Lehman.. Lenard.. Leon.. Londrigan.. M.. Madigan.. Maragos.. Markert.. Matijevich.. McAvoy.. McClain.. McGah.. McPartlin.. Merlo.. Peter Miller.. Moore.. D. O'Brien.. G. O'Brien.. O'Hallaren.. Randolph.. Redmond.. Ropa.. Schlickman.. Schoeberlein.. Shea.. Ike Sims.. Smith.. Stone.. Taylor.. Telcser.. Terzich.. R. Thompson.. Tuerk.. Von Boeckman.. Wall.. Walters.. Welsh.. Frank Wolf.. Yourell.. Zlatnik.. Mr. Speaker.."

"Alright.. Any question of the... The GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Simms."

"How am I recorded, Mr. Speaker?"

"How's the gentleman recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as voting... as 'not voting'."

"Ah.. vote me 'aye'."

"Record the gentleman as 'aye'. Alright.. Questions of the affirmative? The gentleman from Cook, Mr. William Walsh."

"Representative Boyle?"

"How's the gentleman recorded? He's there."

"Representative Brinkmeier?"

"He's there."

"Representative Brinkmeier?"

"He's here."

"Representative Carrigan?"

"Carrigan is here."

"Representative Chapman?"

"No. How's she recorded?"

"Ah.. the Lady is recorded as voting 'aye'.

"Well, take her off of the record. She's not there."

"Gene Hoffman?"

"He's here."

"Representative Hirschfeld?"

"He's here." 166. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  W. D. Walsh: "Representative Krause?"

"He's here."

"Representative Maragos?"

"How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Alright.. Take him off of the record."

"Representative Giorgi?"

"How's he recorded? He's here."

"Representative Terzich?"

"He's here."

"Representative Stone?"

"How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"He's not back there. Take him off of the record."

"Representative Zlatnik?"

"He's here."

"Representative Keller?"

"He's there."

"Representative Caldwell?"

"How's he... He's there."

"Representative R. Carter?"

"He's there. Palmer.. How's he recorded?"

"Ah.. the gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'."

"Representative Harold Washington?"

"Palmer is 'aye'. Which Washington was GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  that? Which Washington?"

"Ah.. Harold Washington."

"Harold Washington. How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'."

"Alright.."

"Representative Hanahan?"

"How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as 'not voting'."

"Alright.. How's the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Brandt, recorded?"

"Ah.. the gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Representative Tipsword?"

"He's 'not voting'."

"Representative Tipsword, Mr. Speaker?"

"He's not.. He's not recorded as voting."

"Representative ah.. Corbett?"

"How's he recorded?"

"The gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Take him out of the record."

"Representative Jacobs?"

"He's here."

"Representative Keller?"

"Yeah.. He's here still."

"Ah.. finally, Representative Frank Smith?"

"He's here. He's there."

"Thank you." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  169.

"Alright.. See what we have. 91 'Ayes' and 62 'Nays'. And, the gentleman's motion to suspend the provisions of Rule 4la prevails and those three Bills shall be advanced to the order of Second Reading without reference to Committee. Alright.. Ah.. the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Shea, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Senate Bill 1393 was inadvertently not posted for hearing today in Revenue. So, I'd like to have leave of the House to suspend the provisions of Rule 17 so that House.. or Senate Bill 1393 may be posted and hear in ah.. Revenue Committee this afternoon. I talked to the Chairman of the Committee and the Leadership on both sides and I know of no objection. Senate Bill 1393 reenacts the household full of furniture and the one automobile as exemptions from the personal property tax."

"Hearing no objection, leave is granted for the purpose requested. 1477. We're on Senate Bills First Reading."

"Senate Bill 1477, an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Commission on Mental Health. First Reading of the Bill."

"Alright.. 1496."

"Senate Bill 1496, an Act to make an appro- priation to the Superintendent of Public Instruction. First Reading of the Bill."

"1497." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  170.

"Senate Bill 1497, an Act to make and appro- priation to the Superintendent of Public Instruction. First Reading of the Bill."

"1498."

"1498, an Act to make an appropriation to the Superintendent of Public Instruction. First Reading of the Bill."

"1549."

"Senate Bill 1549, an appropriation for a portrait of the former President Pro tem of the Senate. First Reading of the Bill."

"1551."

"Senate Bill 1551, appropriation for the expenses of the Election Laws Commission. First Reading of the Bill."

"1552."

"1552, an appropriation for the Metropolitan Fair and Exposition Authority. First Reading of the Bill."

"1553."

"1553, supplemental appropriation to the Illinois Veterans Commission. First Reading of the Bill."

"1559."

"1559, an appropriation for the expenses of the Data Information Systems Commission. First Reading of the Bill."

"1562."

"1562, appropriation for the expenses of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  the General Assembly. First Reading of the Bill."

"1563."

"1563, an appropriation for the expenses of certain Officers of the Judicial System. First Reading of the Bill."

"1564."

"1564, appropriation for the expenese of the Judicial System. First Reading of the Bill."

"1572."

"1572, an appropriation for feasibility studies of photographs on Driver's License. First Reading of the Bill."

"1565."

"1565, an appropriation for the expense of the Legislative Commission of this State. First Reading of the Bill."

"1572."

"1572, I read that already."

"1573."

"1573, appropriation for the expenses of Commission on Inter-Governmental Cooperation. First Reading of the Bill."

"1582."

"1582, an appropriation for the Department of Revenue. First Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Wall."

"Mr. Speaker, I request leave of the House to suspend GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  172. the appropriate provisions to hear Senate Bill 1529 and 1530 in the Committee on Registration and Regulations today."

"Is there objection? Hearing.none, leave will be granted for the purpose requested. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Arrigo."

"Mr. Speaker, I'm asking leave to waive the pro- visions of Rule 17 so that Senate Bill 1422 could be today by the Education Committee."

"Alright.. Does the Chairman of the Committee, Mr. Soderstrom,...."

"I've talked to Mr. Soderstrom and the Leadership on both sides."

"Alright.. Hearing no objection, then leave will be granted for the purpose requested. The gentle- man ah.. from Cook, Mr. Juckett."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, House Joint Resolution 132 was originally posted for our Committee last week. Inadvertent- ly, it was left off of the calendar. And, I would ask leave of the House to be able to hear H.J.R. 132 this afternoon in Exec."

"Is there objection? Hearing none, the. Alright.. Is there objection registered to leave? The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Lechowicz."

"Mr. Chairman, I'm wondering what the Bill... What is the Bill?"

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett."

"It's a Resolution calling for the investigation GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  of the practices within the automotive industry in regard to repair of automobiles, etc."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"Alright.. Hearing no objection, leave will be granted for that.. that purpose. For what purpose does the gentleman from ah.. Lake, Mr. ah.. Conolly, rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, I just want to point out that the Public Utilities Committee will meet in Room 508 immediately after adjournment for a very short Meeting ah.. concerned with one Bill."

"Ah.. Consent Calendar's Second Reading.

"Senate Bill 1279, amends an Act relating to Railroad Rates. Second Reading of the Bill."

"Third Reading. Conference Committee is now ready to be appointed on House Bill 3736. They're Blades, Washburn, McCormick, Krause and Barry. Committee Reports."

"Mr. Palmer, from the Committee on Judiciary II, to which Senate Bills 889, 1521 were referred, reported the same back with the recommendation that the Bills do pass."

"Introduction and First Reading of House Bills."

"House Bill 4678, Kleine, appropriation to the Department of Conservation. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 4679, Shea, amends 'The School Code'. First Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from ah.. Lake, Mr. Kleine." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  174.

"Mr. Speaker, this is ah.. the Bill that I re- ferred to ah.. a short time before, 4678. And, I would move the appropriate to suspend the Rules of the appropriate. And ah.., ah.. move the Bill then to Second Reading ah.. and avoid ah.. going to Committee."

"Well, is there objection? The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Simmons."

"When is the Bill due?"

"Ah.. Representative Simmons, this is a ah.. Bill pertaining to Lake Michigan with regard to the situation on the developing on the Airline situation. It could ah.. reach disastrous proportions. Ah.. we've had a similar Bill about ah.. four years ago that appropriates the amount of money to the City of Chicago and the Shoreline Community to aid them in their collection of the ah.. the Airline as a ah.. become on the beaches."

"Is there objection? Hearing none, ah.. the Bill will be advanced to the order of Second Reading with- out reference. Now, the gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Shea.

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 4679 would permit the School Board of the City of Chicago to borrow up to $35,000,000 from a Bond Fund that we passed last year. I would move for the suspension of Rule 38 so that this Bill may be read a First Time and moved to the order of Second Reading without reference to a Committee"

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Hyde.

"Ah.. Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  175. the House, we did have some discussion with the ah.. distinguisl. Assistant Minority Leader. And ah.., we do have an under- standing that this Bill will be held on Second ah.. Reading pursuant to further understanding. So ah.., I have no ob- jection to our understanding, at this point, inasmuch as we hope it will be part of a larger understanding. Thank you."

"Much larger.. Alright.. Is there ob- jection to advancing ah.. this Bill to the order of Second Reading without reference? Hearing... Hearing no objection, then we will advance that Bill to the order of. Second Reading without reference. On the order of concurrences, appears ah H. B. 3740, on which the Chair recognizes the gentleman from McHenry, Mr. Lindberg."

"Mr. Speaker, I move ah.. that we concur in ah.. Senate Amendment No. 1, to this Bill, which simply ah.. ah.. adds in the Administration of the Federal Campaign Act to the ah.. appropriation ah.. for this Bill."

"Alright.. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Shea."

"What does it do, George?"

"The Amendment ah.. provides that ah.. the funds to be used ah.. in this Bill will also be used in connection with the ah.. administration of the Federal Campaign Act which is now also a responsibility of the Secretary of State."

"What does the Secretary of State have to do with the Federal Campaign Spending Act?"

"Ah.. every.. every campaign committee ah.. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  176. must file a report with the Illinois Secretary of State ah.. in regard to the candidates for Federal Office."

"George, ah.. why... could you just kind of hold that until we look at it?"

"Mr. Speaker, I'll hold it for a few minutes while we ah.. get it straightened out."

"While we both find out what it is, huh?"

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Burditt, on concurrence on H. B. 2444."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. this is the Endangered Species Bill. It was amended in the Senate to ah.. add Republican to the list of endangered species. And ah.., the effective date was post- poned for two years, the ah.. Committee, which was set up, was increased by three and the Amendments were added to pro- vide for staggered terms. And, an Amendment was added to provide that all fines collected be paid to the State's Treasury. Ah.. those Amendments were put on in the Senate without opposition. And, I don't believe that there's any opposition in the House. And, I therefore, move concurrence with the Senate Amendments."

"Senate Amendments 1 and 2. Your motion is with regard to both of those? Alright.. Does the gentle- man have leave to have a one Roll call taken on both of these Amendments? Alright.. Hearing no objection, then we will... The question is on the adoption of Senate Amend- ments 1 and 2, to House Bill 2444. This is final passage. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  177. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will... The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Berman."

"I may be a little late, but to explain my vote, I was wondering or rather ah.. Representative Carroll's girl- friend was wondering if mink is among the endangered species".

"Have all voted who wished? Take the record. 135 'Ayes' and no 'Nays' and each of these... and the House concurs in Senate Amendments No. 1 and 2. Ah.. Resolutions."

"House Resolution 680, Yourell, et.al. 681, Scariano. 682, Meyer, et.al. 683, William Cunningham, et.al. 684, William Cunningham. 685, Pierce, et.al. 686, Ike Sims, et.al. 687, Sevcik, et.al. 688, Laurino. 689, Ed Madigan, et.al. House Joint Resolution 137, Shea, et.al.

"The ah.. gentleman from ah.. ah.. Cook, Mr. Hyde, on the Agreed Resolutions."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Agreed Resolution 680 is a memorial to A. L. Sargent, the former Executive Director of the Illinois Municipal League. Ah.. the Resolu- tion 681 condemns ah.. the vandalism against six North Side Chicago synagogs. Ah.. Resolution 682 is a memorial to James Christakes, a former House Intern. Resolution 683 congratulates Mrs. Opal Gruner, for her many years of involve- ment in Community Service in Perry County. House Resolution 684 congratulates Dan P. and Edna Cagle of Pinckneyville as, 'two very nice people'. House Resolution 685 commends Robert GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  178. Klairmont for his common alert action which lead to the rescue of two fishermen. House Resolution 686 congratulates the Traffic Court of the City of Chicago on its Sixty Years of House distinguished service to the residents of Cook County. Resolution 687 expresses our profound sorrow upon the death of Captain Roland Brani of the Cicero Police Department. House Resolution 688 congratulates Charles N. Wheeler III, Springfield Reporter for the Chicago Sun Times upon his being named the winner of a 'Stick O' Type' Award for excellence in Journalism by the Chicago Newspaper Guild. House Resolu- tion 689 congratulates Miss Theresa Henneberry on her selec- tion as the 'Illinois Retired Teacher of the Year'. And, House Joint Resolution 137 extends the time for the Report of the Temporary Joint Committee on State Finance, created by House Joint Resolution 122, to the date of June 8th, 1972. I move the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions."

"All those in favor of the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Agreed Resolutions are adopted. Are there further Resolutions? Alright.. Back now to that one con- currence on House Bill 3740. The gentleman from ah.. McHenry, Mr. Lindberg."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, we were on concurrences in Senate Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 3740 that includes the administration of the Federal Campaign Act in the purposes of the appropriation of that Bill. And, I move that we concur in the Amendment." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  179.

"Any further discussion? Alright.. The question is, 'shall the House concur in Senate Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 3740?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? This is final passage and requires 89 votes. The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 124 'Ayes', and 2 'Nays'. The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Lechowicz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In explaining my 'no' vote, we, just this afternoon, passed a Bill giving the Secretary of State $85,000 to administer ethics and included in there was an Amendment for the Federal people that have file this Law. I think, for an additional twenty-four Congressman and two Senators, 'that's more than enough money. That's explaining my 'no' vote."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Kosinski."

"Mr. Speaker, how am I recorded?"

"How's the gentleman recorded?"

"The gentleman is recoréed as voting 'aye'."

"Would you please change that to 'no'?"

"Change that to 'no'. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Caldwell.. 'aye'. On this question, there are... He's already recorded. 123 'Ayes', 3 'Nays' and ah.. the House concurs in Senate Amendment No. 1. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Hyde."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would now move to suspend the provisions of 32c and GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  d until June 9th, 1972. Ah.. the purpose of this is to ex- tend the ah.. date of Hearing for Bills in Committee.. Senate Bills in Committee so we may ah.. be able to hear those with- out ah.. being bombed by the present Rules. So, I do move for suspension of Rule 32c and d until June 9th, 1972."

"Alright.. We've been taking Roll Calls on.. on this type of suspension. So, the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Shea."

"The provisions of this. are just waived with regards to Senate Bills?"

"Yes. Alright.. Ah.. the question is, 'shall the gentleman's motion prevail?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. This requires 89 votes. Have all voted who wished? The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett,... or Mr. ah.. J. J. Wolf."

"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to briefly explain my vote. I just came from the House of Lords and I understand that, if any Bills, ah.. House Bills, that aren't out of Committee by tomorrow, are going to be dead. Now, I've seen the actions of those gentleman over on the other side of the Rotunda, where Bills have been asked to be heard in Committee and they weren't heard and you can't get away with the Rule. And, I'm going to vote for it anyway because, I think, it's right but! I think, there should be some dialogue with those gentleman on the other side of the Rotunda."

"Well, with that piece of advise, the Minority Leader suggest that, perhaps, it would be in order GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  181. to take ah.. this motion out of the record ah.. at this time Ah.. we can look at it ah.. tomorrow with an overnight ah.. look into ah.. the matter so raised by the gentleman from Cook, Mr. J. J. Wolf. So, ah.. gentleman from Cook, Mr. Hyde."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I would ask leave to withdraw this motion at this time, but I would like to point out that ah.. we do have a series of ah.. motions being made by individ- ual... by individual Members for the scheduling of their Bills in Committee. And, to avoid a constant jumping up and ah.. disorder on this matter, ah.. it is suggested that any- body, who wishes a suspension of a Rule so that a Bill may be heard in Committee ah.. without complying with the six and a half day Rule, ah.. please take... bring the matter to the Committee Chairman so that, at one point, the Committee Chairman could rise and read off a list of Bills ah.. which ah.. it would be requested... the ah.. Rule be waived ah.. ah.. concerning posting. That will save a lot of disorder and chaos in time. So, I make that suggestion to the Sponsor of the Bill. Ah.. please discuss it with your Committee Chairman and they can make the motion and will do so, if re- quested. Thank you."

"Okay.. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Hyde, moves that...."

"Mr. Speaker, I now move that the House stand adjourned until the hour of 9:00 A.M. tomorrow morning."

"Wait a minute. We have a couple of announcement from the Committee Chairmen. The gentleman from GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Cook, Mr. Regner."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would like to announce that the House Appropriations Committee will convene in Room 212 at 4:30 and we'll work til 6:00 and then we'll quit."

"The gentleman from Cook, ah.. Mr. Randolph."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, the Revenue Committee will convene on the House Floor, five minutes after adjournment."

"The gentleman from ah.. Morgan, Mr. Rose."

"Committee on the Constitution will meet as soon as we can convene in the Armory, the Northeast Meeting Room of the Armory."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett." R. S. Juckett; "Mr. Speaker, the House Executive Committee will meet immediately in Room M5, ane Bill, one Resolution. Should be out very shortly."

"Alright.. All those in favor of the gentleman's motion say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it. Stand adjourned until 9:00 A.M. What? The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Regner, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd like to ask suspension of Rule, unanimous consent to suspend Rule 17, which is a seven day ah.. posting notice so that we can post Bills to be heard in Appropriations Committee next Tuesday. I.. I've discussed this with the Minority Leader." 181. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  182.

"Alright.. Alright.. Those are exempt Bills. So, hearing no objection, leave will be granted for that purpose. The gentleman from McHenry, Mr. Lindberg."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I'd ask the same leave with regard to Representative Fary's House Resolution 331."

"Alright.. Is there objection? Hearing none, then leave will be granted for that purpose. Then, stand adjourned until 9:00 A.M. tomorrow." ADJOURNMENT AT 3:30 O'CLOCK P.M. 6/1/72 mes. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES