"We pray. Bestow your benediction upon this assembly, dear God. This and all the sessions of this week: As you have been the hope and stay of countless generations, be a source of strength to me these days. When the way before me appears to be difficult and troubled, provide me with the necessary insights to proceed trustingly. When issues seem to be obscure and freighted with all manner of unresolved problems, grant that I may prove to be true and faithful to what I can clearly see and understand to be right. Amid difference and debate, temper and turmoil, remind me forcefully that the colleague next to me and across the aisle from me is made of the same clay as I, subject to the same frailties as I, beset by the same weaknesses as I, and in need of the same love and compassion as I. Assure us of your presence in our midst that we may do our work and accomplish those ends which will serve your purposes for us. Hear us, our help in ages past and our hope for years to come, our strength and our Redeemer. Amen.'
"Role call for attendance. The reason for the dealay in starting this morning is that ah...there was a ah... joint leadership meeting between the House ah..ledders and the ah... Senate leaders which just concluded. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Granata."
"Mr.Speaker, last week while I was away, Senate Bill 1281 affecting the member's pension was tabled. And I move that that bill be taken from the table and back on the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES calendar and in order of third reading where it was. be a note on your desk for it." 2.
There'll Hon. W. Robert Blair: "Alright, ah...if you would withhold that motion ah...sometime during the day today there are other bills in the category ah...we have that one here and we would like ah...to do it all at one time, is that all right?"
"Alright."
"Ah...the ah...gentleman withdraws his motion and ah...we we will get to that subject a little later this morning. Messages from Senate."
"A message from the Senate by Mr. Wright, Secretary: Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has passed bills of the following titles, in the passage of which I am instructed to ask the concurrence of the House: Senate Bill 1362, 1395, 1399, 1402 1558, 1604, 1606, passed by the Senate June 13, 1972, Kenneth Wright Secretary. Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has passed bills of the following titles, in the passage of which I am instructed to ask the concurrence of the House, Senate Bills 1475, passed by the Senate June 13,1972, Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform the House of Representatives, The Senate has concurred the House to pass bill of the following titles: House Bill, 3665, 3666, 4091, 4124, 4180,4196, 4305, 4328, 4499, 4505, 4537 and 4651, passed the Senate, June 13, 1972, Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform the House of Representatives Senate has concurred the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 3. House to pass the bills with the following titles: House Bill 179, 181, 182, 187, 2545, passed by the Senate June 13, 1972 Kenneth Wright Secretary. Mr. Speaker - I am directed to inform the House of Representatives the Senate has concurred the House to pass the bills with the following titles: House Bill 311 together with the following amendment adoption with which I am instructed to ask concurrence of the House passed Senate amendments, June 13, 1972, Kenneth Wright Secretary. Mr. Speaker - I am directed to inform the House of Representatives the Senate has concurred the House of Representatives to pass the bills with the following titles: House Bill 1949 together with the following amendment and the adoption of which I am instructed to ask the concurrence of the House, passed the Senate as amended, June 13, 1972, Kenneth Wright Secretary. Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives, the Senate has concurred the House of Representatives to pass the bill with the following title: House 2555, together with the following amendment and adoption of which I am instructed to ask the concurrence of the House, passed the Senate as amended, June 13, 1972, Kenneth Wright Secretary. Mr. Speaker - I am directed to inform the House of Representatives the Senate has concurred the House of Representatives to pass the bill with the following title: House Bill 4149, together with the following amendment and adoption which I am instructed to ask the concurrence of the House, passed the Senate as amended, June 13, 1972, Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker - I am directed to inform. the House of Representatives that the Senate has concurred the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 4. House of Representatives to pass the bill with the following title; House Bill 4283, together with the following amendment, and the adoption in which I am instructed to ask concurrence of the House, passed by the senate, as amended, June 13, 1972, Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker - I am directed to inform the House of Representative the Senate has refused to Recede bill of the following title: House Bill3639 and I am further directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has requested a committee conference ah... action taken by the Senate June 13, 1972, Kenneth Wright, Secretary. No further messages."
"The House Bills third reading. 4293."
"House Bill 4293. An act to provide the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Conservation. Third reading of the bill."
"Gentleman from Randolph, Mr. Springer."
"Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentleman of the House, House Bill 4293 makes the appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses for the Department of Conservation for the fiscal year beginning July 1, 1972. As Amended, House Bill 4293, the Capital developement bonding fund was reduced by $10,000,000 and there was a reduction also in the general office. I appreciate your support."
"Is there discussion? Gentleman from cook, Mr. Kosinski."
"Ah...will the sponsor yield to a question?"
"ah...yes he indi...he indicates..." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Roman J. Kosinski: 5. "Ah...Dr. Springer, Amendment no. 2, deleting land acquisition and the land item still is on this bill, is it not?"
"Ah...yes it is."
"Thank you."
"Further discussion? Question is, shall this bill pass. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 153 'ayes' no 'nays' and this bill having received a constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4286."
"House Bill 4286. An act creating a Joint Legislative Commission on Economic Advisors henceforth; third reading of the bill. The gentleman from cook, Mr. Regner."
"Ah... Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House, This is the ah...bill which creates the ah.. permanent commission or committee to ah...estimate revenue for the general assembly which is mandated by ah... the constitution. It's called the ah... Advisory Council... Economic Advisors Council. And they will estimate revenue for us. And I'd urge a favorable vote on House Bill 4286."
"Discussion? Gentleman from ah... Bureau, Mr. Barry."
"Would the sponsor yield to a question? Ah... Dave is this version one that's approved by Senator Harris. I know that he's absent on occasion ah... because of some illness, is this an...." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 6.
"No, this is the version that was agreed on with the leadership on both sides from both Houses, I did have one amendment put on yesterday, which changed the appointment, ah..corrected the appointment procedure and also set up the filling of vacancy procedure."
"But then there is another version that bill will probably send over to us eventually."
"No it is not the version of the bill that Senator Harris has."
"Thank you."
"Further discussion? Gentleman from ah.. cook, Mr. Richard Walsh."
"Ah... Dave this is the bill that repeals the budgetary commission act, is that correct?"
"That's correct."
"Can you tell us how the appointment is going to be made?"
"Yes...there are 20 members ah...Dick, it's the chairman of the House Appropriations and House Revenue Committees, Ah...the ah...chairman of the ah...and the minority spokesman of both of those committees. And then the same thing in the Senate. And then there are twelve more members appointed ah...three by each of the leaders...minority and majority leaders in the House and the Senate to create a total commission of twenty members."
"Ah...three by each, so there will be no majority party then ah..."
"That...that's correct." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 7.
"And can you tell me how this differs from ah... Senator Harris' proposal?"
"As far as the membership, it's exactly the same."
"Just the powers and duties?"
"That's correct."
"Is it your understanding that the present budgetary commission staff will be employed by this new commission?"
"Yes Sir, it is."
"Can you just indicate to me wha...ah...what the reasoning was behind there being no majority or minority party in there, such as there now is in the budgetary commission?"
"Well this was discussed, like I say, by the leadership when we were putting the bill together, Dick, and ah... it was felt that it would be a much better and more fair to have a truly equal balanced power structure, if you want to call it that. However, as far as the adoption of ah.. the ah...report from this commission, it would have to be adopted by both Houses, so if there is a majority party in... in either of the Houses, the political implications, if you're looking at as that, would be taken care of on the floor of each house when they are adopting the report."
"Is...can you tell me when the report is to be made?"
"Its ah.. quite ah... I think there's one to be made 45 days prior to the ah...conveining of the...each session Ah...one during the session, and then one right immediately before adjourning. So if there are any changes and corrections in the revenue estimate, they would be made and be up to date." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 8.
"And ah...what is the appropriation?"
"$200,000 and that's in a seperate bill, that's in 4676."
"Thank you."
"For what purpose the gentleman from Bureau, Mr. Barry rise?"
"One short final question Mr. Speaker, Dave your.. your version does allow for a special fiscal studies by the new budgetary commission so to speak?"
"Yes, if I'm not mistaken Tobie, it's section 2, that says they may do any other studies ah...at the desire of the commissioners or at the or from the direction of the general assembly. So they can do any other kind of economic studies they so desire."
"Fine, Thank you very much."
"Any further discussion? The question is: Shall House Bill 4286 pass? All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The, J. J. Wolfe, 'aye', Clerk will take the record. Hanahan, 'aye', on this question there are 156 'ayes', 2 'nays'. This bill having received a constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 4676."
"House Bill 4676. An act to make an appropria- tion for the ordinary and contingent expenses Joint Legislative Commission of Economic Advisors. Third reading of the bill."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Regner."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 9. House, this is the companion bill to 4286, and it is the appropriation for the Council of Economic Advisors and the appropriation is $200,000, and I ask for a favorable vote."
"Discussion? Question is shall House Bill 4676 pass. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 157 'ayes', 2 'nays' and this having received a constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. 4677."
"House Bill 4677. Bill for an act to make an appropriation for furnishing the legisla tive staff, secretarial, clerical and soforth. Third reading of the bill."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Regner."
"Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House, this is a bill which provides the $500 a month allowance for ah...members of the general assembly to use in there home districts for secretarial services rendered to them so on and so forth... And I'd urge a favorable vote."
"Is there a discussion? Question is shall this bill pass? All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'."
"Gentleman from cook, Representative R. Walsh."
"Dave, if you could answer this in explaining your vote, Does this differ from the appropriation made for the current fiscal year?"
"No it does not, Dick." -GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES R. A. Walsh: "It's exactly the same?" 10.
"yes."
"Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question there are 160 'ayes', no 'nays', and this bill having received a constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. Is Representative Wall on the Floor? House Bill 4135. Gentleman from cook, Representative Wall, is going to request that that bill be brought back to the order of second reading for the purposes of an amendment. Gentleman from cook, Representative Wall."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, this amendment, Mr. Speaker is the request for funds needed to correct structural faults in the Dixon Falls Museum."
"Representative Wall, would you please ask for a leave first to return it to the order of second reading?"
"I thought you done that Mr. Speaker, but I'll do so, I'll request leave of the House to return House Bill 4135 back to second reading for the purpose of amendment."
"Are there any objections? Herein, the House Bill 4135 will be put in the order of second reading. Please read the amendment."
"Amendment number 3, Wall, Amend House Bill 4135, section 5, page 5, by inserting immediately after line 5, the following: Dixon Mounds Museum, for the repairs to the Museum Building to correct structural faults and repair damage caused by leaking water, $50,000." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 11.
"Gentleman from cook, Rep. Wall."
"I move for the adoption of amendment no. 3 to House Bill 4135, Mr. Speaker."
"Is there any further discussion? Gentleman has offered to move for the adoption of Amendment no. 3 to House Bill 4135. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no'. The amendment is adopted. Are there further amendments? Third reading. House Bill 4134."
"House Bill 4134. An act to make an appropriation to the Board of Strustees, State Universities Retirment System. Third reading of the Bill. "
"Gentleman from Champaign, Rep. Claubaugh."
"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this is the bill that we amended yesterday, makes the appropria- tion for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the State Universities Retirement System. It's in the amount, $3,000,000 was taken out of the bill, and now its in the amount of ah... $332,000. Í uge your support of the bill."
"Is there any discussion? Question is shall House Bill 4134 pass? All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the record. 152 'ayes', no 'nays', and this bill having received a constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 4210."
"House bill 4210. An act to make an appropria- tion and reappropriation for the Board of Higher Education. Third reading of the bill." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 12..
"Gentleman from Rock Island, Representative Henss."
"Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentleman of the House, this is the appropriations bill for the Board of Higher Education, it ah...funds the Board of Higher Education for operations in the Amount of $943,800. Also for grants for the ah 'Health Services Education Grants, and for Grants for Higher Education Cooperation Act. The total amount of the Appropriation is $23,473,800. I'd appreciate your support."
"Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Hirschfeld."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentleman of the House. I would strongly suggest to the members of this House that they examine this bill very very carefully. It appropriates $23,000,000 plus for the Board of Higher Education. Now ladies and gentleman of this House, We had a bill introduced earlier in this House which would have abolished this board, and which with the consent of all parties involved has been allowed to be tabled pending the results of the action of the Board of Higher Education for the next year. I intend to vote for this bill, but I think the House should be reminded that the time Dr. Holderman appeared before the House committee on Higher Education a year ago, he refused to answer any questions propounded to him by both sides of the aisle. At that time we suggested to him that the make recommendations to the House of Representatives on priorities so that we could decide which University should get what and what programs could be elminiated GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 13. if any. This year so far as I am personnally concerned, Dr. Holderman is completely sold out to the Bureau of the Budget and Mr. McCarter. Because instead of fulfilling his function as executive Director to Board of Higher Education, what Dr. Holderman has done is except the budget recommendations of Mr. McCarter and incorporated those into the various bills which we will probably be voting on today. Ah...ladies and gentleman it seems to me rather senseless to appropriate $23,000,000 to an agency that does nothing more than parrot the ideas of the Bureau of the Budget. And I am not happy with the Board of Higher Education, I think a great number of members on both sides of this House are not happy with the Board of Higher Education. I do think we should support this particular appropriation bill, but I strongly suggest House members, that they keep close watch on Dr. Holderman and the Board of Higher Education as they do not fill their legislative function, between now and when they walk back inthis House next year, probably asking for an increase of several millions of dollars more for additional programs, that we turn them down at that time."
"Gentlman from Rock Island, Mr. Henss."
"First of all Mr. Speaker, I'd like to thank the gentleman for voting for the bill, I'm not interested in argue- ing with anyone who is voting for my bill, but I think that ah... it is fair to point out on behalf of the Board of Higher Education. first of all that this is an appropriation for $23,473,000, but ah...less than a million of that goes to the operations of the Board of Higher Education. Ah..over $22,000,000 will be in the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 14. form of grants which will be given to the private institutions, and for the education of doctors and high priority programs, such as the education of nurses, under programs which have previously been established by the General Assembly. Now the lines of communication ah...which I think were closed for a few months a year ago, are now working well, unfortunately there were attitudes formed at that time, and ah...they have not been thrown off by all of the membership. Ah...some of the members have not adjusted back to what I feel is now a normal situation. The Board of Higher Education is doing good work and is communicating quite well with the members of the legislature. Now if you want to know what the Board of Higher Education has accomplished consider the fact that Illinois is one of the most respected States for the overall quality of its higher education program. The Higher. Board has developed a master plan in Higher Education. We do have a junior college system which is probably second to none in the United States. We have a program of aid to the college, high priority programs to educate doctors and nurses, we have budget review, we have coordination of activities, and now we are moving strongly in area of cooperative programs. All. of these things were advanced by the Board of Higher Education, and Illinois is respected for the work which has been done by the Higher Board. We know that there are complaints within the Higher Education community, ah...the gentleman which just spoke represents one of our largest and richest institutions and I respect that particular institution for the work that it has done. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 15. But we know that there is not complete agreement in the higher education community, it has always been and I imagine that it will always be so. But recently when the gentleman from Champaign county filed a bill to abolish the Board of Higher Education, every single institution in the State of Illinois, public and private, rose to the defense, they were all there in the higher education committee and I can speak from personal knowledge of that meeting, they were all there asking for the continued operation of the Board of Higher Education. Every public institution and as far as I know every private institution. Perhaps that is just as interesting as the back corridor complaint that we know exist with regard to the operations of the Board of Higher Education. I do want to thank the gentleman for the vote for the bill and I do think that some of the comments ah...perhaps are answered by this response. I would appreciate a vote by the entire membership of the House for this very worthwhile legislation."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. J.J. Wolf."
"Would the sponsor yield for a question or two?"
"Yes, I thought I was closing, but I certainly will yield to questions."
"Ah...could you tell me the Board of Higher Education.. you say....I don't have a copy of the bills, I can't seem to find it in my bill book...do they ah... you say there's about a million dollars in operational expenses for the Board of Higher Ed.?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 16.
"The amount for operations is $943,800."
"Alright...could you tell me to the limit ah...do they have any airplanes at their disposal?"
"No." J. J. Wolf: : They do not. Ah...could you tell me roughly expense accounts that might be for either Dr. Holderman or any of the other board members involved in there."
"The ah. I'll read off the item ah...to make up that taal. For personal Services, $695,500, for employer contributions to the State Universities Retirement System, $28,800, for contractual services, $143,000, Travel, $44,000, commodities, $6,000, Printing, $5,000, equipment, $1,500, telecommunications, $20,000. Now that adds up to the total, as far as personal services are concerned the ah.. total of personal services last year is found in three places in that appropriation bill and it came to about $672,000. So that this increase is not for increased ah...stamping, but for the usual approximately 4% increase overall in salary increases."
"Could you tell me the, just two final questions, the total number of members on the Board and the number of total employees? The total number of members on the Board of Higher Education and also how many employees they have?"
"I can't give you that right off hand, I can get that information to you."
"I was just interested, if there's $44,000 dollars for travel, I was just trying to determine how much is alloca- ted for each person." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Donald A. Henss: 17. "Course the ah...I...I don't know that we can allocate on a per person basis. The function of the Board of Higher Education, with regards to the entire State, and there are institutions all over the entire State, so there would necessarily be a considerable amount of travel as the staff members go about doing their duties ah...on these various other campuses."
"But you can't tell me how many employees they actually have?"
"I cannot give it to you from memory, I'll get that information to you though."
"Thank you."
"Further discussion? Gentleman from cook, Mr. Lechowicz."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House. The House Appropriation Committee did review this bill and in turn they had quite a few serious questions for Dr. Holderman in reference to his statutory mandate of 1957 asking that the Board of Higher Education be responsible for implementing and policing a management information system. And last year at this time we were assured by the good Dr. That it would be implemented and be a free running system. We had a breakfast meeting with the Presidents of the University, and they said up to that time there has been no input to their respective institutions for this type of a system. We brought this up to Holderman in the Appropriations Committee and in turn we reminded them of the Statutory Mandate for this being under the jurisdiction of the Board of Higher Education, He agreed. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 18. And he in turn again assured us that this would be implemented within this coming year. I agree with Representative Hirschfeld, that this is an agency that does need watching, I concur with Representative Wolf as far as the expenditures and the travel within these departments, and I also believe that the sa laries that we are paying these various people is rather high. And they'd better start doing their job. They better start performing a finction for the students, for the people of Illinois, because next year we'll renew that bill that is presently being held by Representative Hirschfeld. But at this time I'11 support this appropriation."
"Gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Henss."
"Ah... thank you Mr. Lechowicz also for your support of the bill, in answer to those matter in which you brought up let me say that the management information systems is a continuing project, it probably will never be completed, because it will be a constant effort in advancement. But there have been things accomplished today, there have been unit cost studies, enrollment studies, space utilization studies, salary studies, and they're still working and expecting progress on that ah...project. At the committee meeting I know that Dr. Holderman assured you that there would be an operable system within the next year, and we appreciate your ah...your going along with that effort in that manner. As far as salaries are concerned, ah...the salaries I think from studies which have been made, are in line with salaries in other states. And in the various institutions of Higher Education, I think CENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 19. If you'll take a look at the salaries of the Universities of Illinois, for instance, which are available, ah...you'll know that if...if the Board of Higher Education is to compete with those institutions in getting competent staff people, that they have to be at a certain salary level. And they are at those ah...competative salary levels. So ah...with that ladies and gentleman I would appreciate your support of this bill. Ah...it is good legislation, needed legislation, to continue with the ah...operation of the Higher Education in this state."
"The question is: Shall this bill pass? All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Ah...gentleman from Champaign, Mr. Hirschfeld."
"In explaining My vote, Mr. Speaker, I would just like to congratulate Representative Henss on his outstanding defense of Dr. Holderman and the Board of Higher Education. And since Don will not be returning to this legislature next year by choice, I will be more than happy to volunteer my service to Dr. Holderman to shepherd his bills through this legislature next year."
"Have all voted who wished? The clerk will take the record. On this question there are 155 'ayes', and three 'nays', and this bill having received a constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. Senate bills first reading. Senate Bill 1319."
"Senate Bill 1319, A bill for an act to provide the ordinary and contingent cistriluting expenditures for the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Department of Agruculture. Hon. W.. Robert Blair: "1323." 20. First reading of the bill."
"Senate Bill 1323. An act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses for the Mental Health Planning Board. First reading of the bill."
"1372.!
"Senate Bill 1372. An act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses for the School Building Commission. First reading of the bill."
"1389."
"Senate Bill 1389. An act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code. First reading of the bill."
"1430."
"Senate Bill 1430. AN act to amend the School Code. First reading of the bill."
"1509."
"Senate Bill 1509. An act to amend an act regulating the grain dealers, first reading of the bill."
"Gentleman from ah... Livingston, Mr. Hunsicker, for what purpose do you rise?"
"Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentleman of the House, this 1509 that came over from the Senate debating the Grain Dealers Act. I'd like to have the appropriate rule suspende I wonder if we could advafice this to second reading without reference to committee. This is mandatory bonding for the grain dealers. The only bill we have and its rather hard to get the committee together, so I wonder if it might be possible to advance it to second reading without reference?" GENERAL NERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 21.
"Is them objection? I heard objection. Alright, I've heard objection. Objections been heard ah... why don't we ah...we'll refer that to your committee ah... you want to think about, when we come back on the floor, about when you want to hold a meeting, and then you can, I'm sure get the rule waved on ah...on notice to hold. I'll put it in your committee, o-k?"
"When may we have that heard Sir?"
"Well I say ah...while we're in recess here, let's talk about whether you can call your ah...committee and we'll get it waves when we do that. 1555."
"Henate Bill 1555. An act to make an appropriation to the Superintendent of Public Instructions. First reading of the bill."
"1556."
"Senate Bill 1556. An act creating a School district survey to study the organizational structure of public schools. First Reading of the bill."
"156.......Gentleman from ah... Adams, Mr. McClain. For what purpose do you rise?".
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, I'd like to move this to second reading without reference to the committee. I've had an o-k of this from both sides of the aisle, both leaderships and with your permission and with the General Assembly I'd like to move to second reading without reference to committee."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Hyde." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Henry J. Hyde: 22. "Ah...Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the distinguished sponsor of this ah...bill would mine taking it out of the. record for the present ah...there are a few items yet to be discussed and ah...we'll get back to it this afternoon?"
"1535. Take that out of the record till we get this advancement thing squared away. 1535."
"1535. An act to make an appropriation for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Corrections. First reading of the bill."
"1548."
"1548. An act to provide for the development of assistance for the improvement of Educational Effectiveness. First reading of the bill."
"1589."
"1589. Bill to amend the Civil Administrative Code. First reading of the bill."
"You want that held? O-K let's leave that on first reading. 1593."
"1593. An act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses to the Illinois Bicentennial Commission. First reading of the bill."
"1542."
"Senate Bill 1542. An Act to make an appropria - tion for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Mental Health. First reading of the bill."
"1433."
"Senate Bill 1433. An act to provide for the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ordinary and contingent expenses for the Office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction. First reading of the bill."
"1569."
"House Bill 1569. An act to provide a law relating to elections ah... First reading of the bill."
"Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Regner."
"Ah... Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House, I'd like to ask for the leave to suspend rule #17, which is the seven day posting notice, so that ah...I can ah... read off a series of bills that we'll hear in appropriations committee tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m."
"Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Simmons."
"Was that ah... Senate Bill 1469, the digest says that bill was tabled?"
"1569. Alright gentlemans asking for leave to suspend rule #17 so the senate bills that came over may be heard ah...tomorrow in appropriations committee. Read the number now."
"Ah...House Bill 4687, Senate Bill 1331, 1335, 1337, 1394, 1397,1400, 1401, 1418, 1425, 1438, 1439, 1564, 1575, 1576, 1583, 1587, ah...1596, 1597, 1603. Then this is a series we just had read off and referred: 1319, 1323, 1372, 1433, 1535,7542, 1555 and 1.593."
"Gentleman from cook,Mr. Shea." Gerald W. Shea; "Are these bills all direct appropriation bills?"
"Yes Gir." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 24.
"Gentleman from Bureau, Mr. Barry."
"Ah...two corrections I think, 1533, has already been approved by your committee, its a Leutenant Governor Senate Bill. Leutenant Governor appropriation adjustment. Also ah..."
"Toby, I called 1433, not 1533."
"I'm sorry, thank you. Also I think you did call the first bill, House Bill 4687, and I believe you intended for it to be 4684, if I know it correctly."
"Your correct."
"Thank you."
"Alright, is there, Gentleman from cook, Mr. ah... Ron Hoffman."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, May I ask the Speaker, or the chairman of the appropriations committee if ah... Senate bill 1494 will be heard next week then?"
"Yes it will Ron. Alright, does the.. Is there objection? In hearing none the leave will be granted to those bills which I have referred to appropriations committee be heard tomorrow , without ah...with waving rule #17. Now the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Randolph."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, I'd like to announce that the Revenue Committee will meet at 1:45.pm. So we can use the floor of the House; I'm moving it up 15 minutes. 1:45 on the floor of the House."
"Alright, is there a leave, hearing no objection then revenue will meet here on the floor at 1:45. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 25. One bill we want to call here before we recess. House Bill Second reading. House Bill 4680."
"House Bill 4680. Bill for an act to amend Section 162 of the Revenue act ah...Second reading of the bill. No committee amendments."
"Amendments? Floor Amendment? "
"Ah...amendment No. 1 McCormick. Amend House Bill 4680 on page 2, line 9 by deleting State Grants and inserting in leiu thereof the following: State Aid, under the school code or State Grants as otherwise provided by law."
"The gentleman from Johnson, Mr. McCormick."
"Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentleman of the House, This is a clarification to ah...a section of the exemption on line 8, ah..and 9 on page two of the bill and I would move ah.. the adoption of the amendment."
"Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Shea."
"Mr. Speaker, I'm wondering if we might have a little order and let the ah...sponsor of this amendment explain it?"
"Gentleman from Johnson, Mr. McCormick."
"Mr. Speaker on page 2 line 8 and actually in line 9 ah...it says any taxes for which a minimum qualifying rate is prescribed to establish eligibility to receive state grants. And in discussing this with the legislative bureau, they felt that we should say state aid under the school code or grants as otherwise provided by law. That's a technical change and GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES that's the amendment and I move for its adoption."
"Alright, gentleman from cook, Mr. Shea."
"Would he explain why he wants to change it?"
"Why? Well in looking over you see, Ah... State Grant I think in the code the school...it talks about the school code and ah...it says state aid in the school code instead of grant and then there's other sections that may refer to grants and they thought that we should have it. Move its adoption."
"All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, the amendment is adopted. Are there further amendments?" Fredric B. Selcke: House Bill....." "Ah...amendment no. 2, McCormick. Amend
"The gentleman from Johnson, Mr. McCormick."
"Ah...this amendment no. 2, if you remember we were talking about the committee to hold, the subject came up by Representative Scariano in the fast growing districts in certain sections of the State, and this allows, this simply allows the ah...if you have a district that increases, like if you have a hundred students in it today and next year you have a hundred and one or a hundred and five, they can increase the levy by the 5 or 10% or the 1% what ever it is to comply with increased enrollment. And I move it's adoption Mr. Speaker."
"Any discussion? Question is on the adoption of the amendment. All those in favor say 'aye', and the opposed The 'ayes' have it, the amendment is adopted. Any further 'no'. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPHESENTATIVES 27. amendments? "
" "Amendment no. 3, McCormick. Amend House Bill 4680 on page 2, by inserting immediately after line 22 the following: in extending taxes and henceforth:."
"Gentleman from Johnson, Mr. McCormick: "
"I've lost my number on it Fred, is that ah... personal property? In extending ah...1973 and 1974 for fund of local Government and school districts?"
"Ah...correct."
"Ah...this is the amendment that we agreed to in the committee to hold. On the personal property tax provided that the Supreme Court does ah...reverse the Illinois Supreme court in the case before it now."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Shea."
"C.L. I think I understand what you're trying to do but let me understand this; a county let's say, Sangamon County, gets approximately 25% of it's revenue from the personal property tax, it extended for both personal and real property $1,000,000 in 1972 for the '71 taxes. The Supreme Court upholds the abolition of the Personal Property Tax. The amount of money that could be levied against all property in Sangamon County in 1973 from '72 taxes would be $750,000."
"Ye and the reason for that, Gerry, is the under- standing and in the Governors statement on the personal property, he said specifically: he would have money available for the replacement of money that if the court rules this way, dollar for dollar for the taxing units of this state." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 28.
"Well you know, it's fine to talk about, we'll have the money available, but now can I finish my statement please C.L.?"
"O-K,C.L.?"
"Yes".
"Alright, go ahead Gerry."
"As I understand this amendment, and I know what you're trying to do. Your saying that if we do away with the personal property tax we're not going to put the load on real estate."
"That's exactly right."
"And you and I have discussed this and I think you're a hundred per cent right except for one thing. I don't know how we can run local governments in this state if in instances you take any where from 18 to 50% of their money away from them and do not concurrently provide for state appropriations to match the loss. Now I know the Governor said, and I'll quote: it to you; In his State of the State message, he said the imposition of the income tax is allowed me to do away with the onerous personal property tax. And. I think that's a pretty accurate quote, C.L."
"Yes that's pretty accurate, and then...and then to increase the...the...imputous on that thing; in his statement following the petition with the courts, with the federal court and in statements later, he has pledged to not only this General Assembly, but to the people of the state of Illinois; that if the Supreme Court did give a ruling in his favor in this matter, that he would have the money available, or make the money GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 29. available from this budget to replace that money, dollar for dollar was his word."
"And ah... C. L...."
"I'll tell you what I'll be happy to do ah... Representative ah... Alsup and Representative Tipsword and Representative Choate, insisted that this amendment be put it. I had really intended not to put the amendment in until we solve up what the court did and then come back in the fall and take care of what ever it was, but...."
"Well, I'm curious where we're going to get $500,000,000 dollars."
"Well, you know, we'll get it."
"All those in favor of the amendment say 'aye'. Opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, the amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"Amendment No. 4, Hart. Amend House Bill 4680 as amended on page 2 by adding...."
"Gentleman from Franklin, Mr. Hart. "
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, this amendment will provide an action on behalf of the taxpayer on the ah...official bond of the county clerk if he failed to comply with the act. I think the sponsor and I have agreed on the amendment. And I would appreciate the adoption of it."
"Any further discussion? All those in favor of the adoption of the amendment say 'aye'. Opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, the amendment is adopted. Are there further amendments?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 30.
"Ah...Amendment no. 5, Shea et al... Amend House Bill 4680...."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Shea."
"Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House, ah...amendment no. 5 makes sure that the mass transit district in the loop, in the city of Chicago, that's been tied up in lidigation. If there's any question about whether it comes under the provisions of this act or not I want to make sure it does."
"Alright, ah...alright. All those in favor of the adoption of the amendment say 'aye'. Opposed 'no'. The 'ayes', have it. The amendment is adopted. Further Amendments? Third reading. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Hyde."
"Mr. Speaker, I now move the House stand in recess, until the hour of 2:00 p.m."
"Alright, the ah...gentleman from cook, Mr. Shea, for what purpose do you rise?"
"Mr. Speaker, on House Bill 4680, I thought there was one more amendment." Are there five amendments?"
"Alright, We'll be in recess Inow until the hour of 2:00 p.m. If the Republican members would go over to the second floor of the state office building ah... you recall we discussed that yesterday. Alright, we'll go to Senate Bills, Third reading. And the Gentleman from Logan, Mr. Madigan, asks leave to return to the order of second reading. Senate Bills, 1244 through 1251, for purposes of offering an amendment. Is there objection? Hearing none GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 31. We'll return those bills to second reading. Chair recognizes the gentleman from Logan, Mr. Madigan."
"Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House, on November 12th of last year, we amended this series of Senate bills in the House to change the affective date to January 1, of this year. And then because of the confusion about the bills, I did not advance them, but left them on third reading so that the effect now is that the January 1, 1972 effective date amendment is past. So with leave of the house I would like to table amendment no. 1 on each of the bills. Senate Bills 1244 through 1251."
"Alright, the gentleman asks leave to, are we ah...hearing all of these now? Alright, and we have leave for that, and now you're asking to table amendment no. 1 to Senate Bill 1244 through 1251. Is there leave? Alright. Hearing no objection in consents given, Then amendment no. 1 with respect to each of those Bills ah...is tabled. Now are there further amendments?"
"Amendment no. 2. Ah... McPartlin. Amend Senate Bill no.1244 in the House amend section 2 by striking third paragraph thereof, and inserting in leiu thereof the following henceforth."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. McPartlin."
"Ah... Mr. Speaker and members of the House, I have worked with the sponsor and Mr. Willard ah... Ise, with the Department of Revenue on this amendment ah...and amendment no. 1 or number 2, the House... Senate bill 1244, ah...the purpose ah...of this is to prevent the collection of double taxes under GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 32. leasing occupantion in the used tax act. And it has been worked out horoughly with the sponsor and I move for the adoption of the amendment."
"Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Richard Walsh."
"Will the ah...the gentleman yield for a question?"
"He indicated he would."
"Ed. Is this your bill? Well alright, I'll speak to the sponsor of the amendment. Ah... Bob, these bills, these leasing used tax bills were referred to the House Revenue Committee, and the committee was duscharged from further consideration of these bills at the close of the session last June. So they've received no consideration in the House Revenue Committee, to my recollection and you answered that these...this amendment you have was worked out with the sponsor ah...I don't know just what you mean by that ah... I wonder if you might explain it further?"
"Ah... Yes Dick. The purpose of the attached amendment to Senate Bills 1244, actually 1245 is the same, is to prevent the collection of a double tax under a leasing occupation in the used tax act. In transactions where a taxpayer has acquired a property payed used tax on it and then make a sale on a leased tax transfer for the purpose of financing the acquisition of the property. Now we have worked this out over the past few weeks ah...with Mr. Ise, from the Department of Revenue. And ah..he is in agreement ah...with this along with ah... Representative Madigan." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Richard Walsh: 33. "Well, Mr. Speaker, ah...and ladies and gentleman of the House, I'm going to offer a substitute motion, at this time. These... these bills having been called, or House Bill 1244 having been called, as I've indicated the bills were referred to the Revenue Committee and the committee discharged last June. It's been my understanding, and I think the under- standing of most of the members of the House and of the entire State of Illinois, that we were to have no further taxes, no new taxes imposed on the people of Illinois, either by way of a leasing tax or other wise, in this Session of the General Assembly. These bills having been called, I assume it's the intention of the sponsor to try to move them. So I would move Mr. Speaker at this time that Senate Bill 1244 be recomm- itted to the House Revenue Committee and at that time if my motion is successful, these bills could receive a full hearing, and the House Revenue Committee could, rather than remain on the calendar as they have for almost one year without any consideration being given these bills certainly by the revenue committee apparently by Representative McPartlin and Representa- tive Madigan. So I make that motion, Mr. Speaker, and I would be hopeful that the chairman of the House Revenue Committee could hold that hearing at any time."
"Alright...there has been made a ah... motion to commit ah... these ah...bills all of them?"
"Well the only one under consideration is 1244, I would hope that they could...."
"No, we have a leave to hear them all." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 34.
"Alright, all of them. I think the entire package should be...." Hon. W. Robert Blair:. "I just want to make sure what your motion is. Ah...now on...and there's been a second to the motion, it requires a second ah...was there? Alright, there's a second, Now, ah...ah...the gentleman from Logan, Mr. Madigan, is ah.. recognized."
"Well if I may respond to the suggestion of Represent- ative Walsh, if he'll look at the synopsis and digest that has the history, chronological history of the movement of these bills, the reason that the motion to discharge the revenue committee was made, and it was made by me, late in June of last year, was because the bills came from the Senate at such a time that it would not have been possible to have had a revenue committee hearing on the bills prior to the adjournment of the legislature. Now we're moving very close to that same kind of situation again. I've kept the bills on the calendar because of the objection that were raised to them last year, and have made no attempt to move them, and I understand that those objections have been corrected and will be corrected by the adoption of the amendment that Mr. McPartlin is going to offer. Now I have no objection to the House Revenue Committee hearing these bills, but I submit to you that Mr. Walsh's motion is not well put, unless he would be a gentleman enough to also suspend the appropriate rule so that it would be possible for the bills to be heard in committee in a manfier that would allow sufficient time for them to come back to the floor of the House, be acted upon and have gained Senate concurrence and the amended GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 35. bills that they are in that form."
"The ah...gentleman from cook, Mr. Richard Walsh."
"Well Mr. Speaker, I take that as a question. Of course I could not make this motion until the bills were called. I had to assume that the bills were never going to be called since they represent a...a new tax. I don't know how long we are going to be down here, but if we're going to have a committee hearing I think we should give the.... some adequate notice so that people interested in these bills can be down before the committee and testify. Ah...is the gentleman knows, the same type of tax that was imposed on ah... Governor Kerner and I think in the very next session was recommended by Governor Kerner that the tax be repealed and the legislature repealed it. So this isn't anything new,. I think it's the kind of thing that requires alot of consider- ation by the members of this House. And I would like the benefit of any testimony that might be given by interested people. So it's a question of how long we're going to be down here, and adequate notice."
"Alright, the, ah...gentleman from cook, Mr. D.J. O'Brien."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, a point of parliamentary inquiry. Since these bills were taken from committee by a 95 vote, what will be the vote required on this motion to send them to committee?"
"The majority of those voting. Further discussion on the gentlemans ah...motion to commit? Well GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 36. there's....gentleman from cook, Mr. Simmons." Arthur E. Simmons "I would like the inquire from the chair, if amendment no. 1 on this series of bills, were tabled?" Hon. W. Robert Blır: "Yes."
"Well the reason I ask, the next bill ah... 1245, has two amendments. And amendment no. 2 has precisely the same language incorporated in it that amendment no. 1 had. So if your trying to...affect an affective date ah...what happened to number 2? On House Bill 1245."
"The ah...gentleman from cook, Mr. McPartlin."
"Ah...Mr. Simmons, what happened when ah... Representative Madigan tabled the Senate amendments to these bills he ineffect killed the effective date which was January 1 of 1972. Now with the new amendments it would be automatic that these biils would go into effect in October 1, of 1972."
"Well Mr. Speaker, I... I thought we were tabeling the House Amendment no. 1, not the Senate amendment. House amendment to Senate Bill no. 1, and I'm talking about House amendment no. 2 that has the same language in it as number 1 does. So it would seem to me only logical if you want to get rid of one you should also deal with number 2."
"Ah...in further explaining that ah...Art. I checked with Pete Bobbit and ah...hè said that all previous adopted amendments should be tabled in order to straight put these bills in their proper form."
"Well that's my point. Why don't you take care of two as long as you're going to take care of one?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 37.
"Well, I think Ed made the motion to table all previous amendments to the whole series."
"The ah...gentleman from cook, ah... Mr. Richard Walsh."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, ah...I guess just by way of closing on my motion to commit. Now this is just an indication, ladies and gentleman of the House, of how involved you can get in things, very serious matters when there have not been committee hearings. We're talking about tabeling Senate amendments. You can't table a Senate amendment in the House. You can only table House Amendments in the House. I'm just afraid nobody seems to know where we're going on this matter. This is a very important matter. We're talking about new taxes in the State of Illinois. There's been no hearing in the House Revenue Committee. Now I assumed, as I'm sure everybody else has who saw these bills on the calendar, that they werent going to be called. Now I would hope that all the members of the Revenue Committee and the other members of the House would join me in voting 'aye', on this motion to commit, will hold a hearing, and if the bills have merit, I assume they will be reported out of committee with a recommendation to pass. But let's see this for what it is. The imposition of a new tax, the procedure is somewhat sloppy to say the least. When members are talking on the floor of the House about tabeling Senate Amendments. Mr. Speaker, It's a bad procedure. These bills should be heard before the House Revenue Committee. And I renew my motion to commit, and I urge the support of the House." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Hon. W. Robert Blair: 38. "Alright...The gentleman's motion is not with regard to the amendments, it's with regard to the main question which is: The bills themselves. And so his motion is to commit those bills to the House Revenue Committee. And that question ah...we had leave to hear all of these bills for purposes of discussion and I take it that the gentleman's motion then is with regard to 1244 through 1251. Ah...is there a roll call vote requested or is it a simple 'yea' and 'nay'. What purpose the gentleman from cook, Mr. Shea rise?"
"Point of parliamentary inquiry."
"Yes. State your point."
"Ah...these bills now appear on the House Calendar. To recommit them, must we suspend a rule, or I think the rules call that the bill shall appear on the order of the calendar and be read in second reading, amended and proceed to third reading, that's the order in which bills go through. In order to move bills out of that ah...context, are we going to have to suspend the rules to recommit these bills?"
"Well, no ah...I don't think so, under ah... provisions of rule #7laa: A motion to commit takes precidence over the ah..motion to amend. Which was the matter on the floor at the time ah...under Mr. McPartlin's sponsorship at the time the Gentleman from cook, Mr. Richard Walsh ah...moved to commit. And that motion takes a simple majority, of those voting, ah... to carry. So the question then is all those ah...what purpose... ah...we've already closed on the question. We can explain votes but...I mean the gentleman from cook, Mr. Richard Walsh has GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 39. already closed on his question. Can you explain your vote? Alright, roll call. The question is on the gentleman's motion to commit. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Gentleman from ah... Rock Island, Mr. Pappas."
"Ah Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentleman of the House in explaining my vote, I would like to bring this out; that with this series of bills as have been brought up before, that there is a new tax involved, I have a number of industries in my district who have been attempting to work out amendments to these bills with the department, and so far have not been successful. And this is one of the reasons that I think that with a new tax and the size of the tax that could be imposed on some of the industry in the State of Illinois, these bills should be committed to the Revenue Committee so that these various industries and people effected could come down and testify. I therefore urge a green vote on this."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Kipley."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House, if you recall that last November when these bills were so peculiarly brought before the House, amended and put on third reading and everything else without reference to committee; I took exception to them at that time on the basis that they were new taxes and we had committed outselves not to add any more to taxes. Not more than a half an hour ago I was sitting here on the floor of the House and I heard Chairman Randolph of the Revenue Committee unequivocally state that He was hearing no bills, that there would be no consideration of any bills of which there was any new tax in this session of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 40. legislature. Now I think that these bills were improperly handled, they should have been given a full and fair complete hearing, in the Revenue Committee last November. Now for. them to come up at this late stage of the game, the last few days of this session, I hope; and without any hearing of any kind at all, and ask the members of this house to vote on these bills, is absolutely wrong. Frankly, I'd like to see them put on the floor and beat them resoundly, rather than even refer them back to committee. However, I'm fully in accord with Representative Walsh's motion that these bills be referred to committee so that they can be heard yearly. That the opponents and the propponents can both be heard, and that we can finally bury them once and for all. I've been carefully watching these bills this whole session, wondering what was going to happen to them. Now I know. I think they should be committed to committee or either voted on and killed. One way or another."
"Gentleman from ah... Livingston, Mr. Hunsicker.
"Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentleman of the House. I am highly in accord with what the previous speaker has just said. These bills have been on the calendar since last November, two months ago or longer when we first came down to this session, the bills stayed and stayed and stayed on third reading. Nobody was in any hurry to get any bills passed. Now on the last few days of this session, we bring forth bills like this and I think bills like this shald be sent back to committee for a proper hearing." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Hon. W. Robert Blair: "Have all voted who wished? 41. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Richard Walsh."
"Mr. Speaker, I'm afraid the dye is cast. It's too bad those lights up there don't have little D's and R's next to them. It appears that the people on the other side of the aisle are much more in favor of imposing a new tax on the people of the State of Illinois than the few republican's that are voting red. But I would like to reemphasize Mr. Speaker, that these bills can get a hearing. The chairman of the ah... Revenue Committee I'm sure would accomodate the sponsor and hold a hearing. I don't know why it hasn't been done to date. Apparently the sponsor never wanted these bills to be aired in the House Revenue Committee. But I think we owe it to our constituents and to the people of the State of Illinois, before we go against everything that we all said when the Governor gave this budget message on March 1st, that there will be no new taxes. To at least give them an opportunity to be heard. Mr. Speaker, this is a bad way for the House of Representatives to operate. I'm sorry that the, I hate to see the sponsor of these bills, ah...if elected, not to be with us next session. I think it's a bad note on which for him to depart. I think the bills should receive a hearing, I'm sure they will be given a fair hearing and I would hope my colleagues would vote no. And Mr. Speaker if the roll call looks unsatisfactory, I would request a poll of the absentees and a varification."
"Gentleman from ah... Kane, Mr. Schoeberlein."
"Mr. Speaker, I think someone pushed your button the wrong way." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 42.
"Have all voted who wished? Clerk will take the record. Ah... Madigan, no. Ah... Mike Madigan, no. Ah...Mr. McClain, no. Alright, now. Take Madigan off, he already voted once. Gentleman from cook, Mr. ah...McPartlin."
"Mr. Speaker, I request a poll of the absentees.
"Alright. The roll call now stands at ah... 78 'ayes' and 77 'nays'. And a poll of the absentees has been requested. The clerk will proceed to poll the absentees.
"Berman, Calvo, Carroll, William Cunningham, Fennessey, Gardner, Gibbs, Houde, Kahoun, Katz, Klosak, Kosinski, Krause, Lauterbach, McCormick, McDermott, Regner,."
"Regner, 'aye'. Berman 'no'. Carroll 'no'. How is ah...Mr. McCormick Recorded?"
"Ah..the gentleman man is recorded as not voting."
"Vote him 'no'. Collins, Mr. Oatis Collins. How is the gentleman recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as voting no."
"Leave him that way."
"Soderstrom, Welsh, Williams."
"Gentleman from Madison, Mr. Calvo. How is he recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Ah...vote me as no, Mr. Speaker."
"Record the gentleman, no. O-k, where do we stand now? Alright, we're now 79 'yeas' and 81 'nays'. And the gentleman from cook, Mr. Richard Walsh ah...has requested GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 43. a verification. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Walsh."
"Ah...could you repeat that temporary roll call? Ah...tentative roll call. 79 to 81 was it?"
"Right."
"79 'ayes'?"
"Right."
"Alright and those voting 'aye' are in favor of recommitting, and those voting'no' are in favor of leaving the bills on the calendar?"
"That's my understanding."
"That was mine too, I think I mis-stated it though."
"O-K. Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Welsh."
"Mr. Speaker, How am I recorded?"
"How is the gentleman recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Vote me 'no' please."
"Record the gentleman as no. How is the gentleman from cook, Mr. Peter Miller recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as voting no."
"Change me to 'aye'."
"Change him to 'aye'. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Brandt. How is he recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as voting no."
"You want to record Brandt as present? Alright. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Graham. How is he recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as voting no."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Graham. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 44. Change him from no to aye. Alright, where are we now? Alright now we are at 81 'ayes' and 79 'nays'. Which is a reverse of where we were just a minute ago. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Ewell."
"Mr. Speaker, how am I recorded?"
"How is the gentleman recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as voting no."
"Gentleman from Adams, Mr. McClain."
"How am I recorded Mr. Speaker?"
"The gentleman was recorded as not voting, and requested to be voting no."
"Well I'm going to change it now to 'aye'."
"Alright, change him to 'aye'. How is the gentleman from Perry, Mr. Cunningham recorded?"
"Mr. W. Cunningham is recorded as not voting."
"Record the gentleman as 'aye'. The gentleman from Ogle, Mr. Brinkmeier, how is he recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as voting no."
"Vote me as 'aye' please."
"Record him as 'aye'. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Scariano, how is he recorded?''
"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."
"Will you please change me as voting 'no', Mr. Speaker?"
"Change Scariano from 'aye' to 'nay'. Gentlema: from McLean, Mr. Hall, how is he recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 45.
"Change him for 'aye' to 'nay'. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Duff, how is he recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as not voting. Vote me 'aye'."
"Record the gentleman as 'aye'. Alright now what's the total? Gentleman from Kankakee, Mr. Houde, how is he recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Record the gentleman 'no'. Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Moore, how is he recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as voting no."
"Would you change that to 'aye', Mr. Speaker?"
"Change that to 'aye'. Gentleman from Knox, Mr. McMaster, how is he recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."
"Fine thank you."
"Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Pierce, How is he recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as voting aye."
"Would you please change that to 'no'?"
"Change that to 'no'. Gentleman from Peoria, Mr. Lauterbac h,"
"How am I recorded?"
"How is he recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Will you mark mine as 'aye', please?"
"Record him as 'aye'. 84 'ayes' and 80 'nays'. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 46. Alright, now that the...Gentleman from cook, Mr. Richard Walsh, withdraws his request for verification. Gentleman from cook, Mr. McPartlin."
"Mr. Speaker, I really like to take a look at that scratch sheet, so I move for a verification of the roll call."
"Alright, the members will be in their seats now. Let's be in our seats so we can have an opportunity to verify the roll call. Gentleman from Logan, Mr. Madigan, rise for what purpose?"
"I wonder if it might be a simpler proceedure, Mr. Speaker, if Mr. Walsh would allow me to make a substitute motion that being to suspend rule #17 so that these bills might be heard in the House Revenue Committee on Monday afternoon?"
"Alright now wait a minute, let's hear from the gentleman from cook, Mr. McPartlin and then we'll get over to Mr. Walsh."
"I'll hold my motion for verification."
"Alright, now he's holding his motion for verification. The gentleman from cook, Mr. Richard Walsh."
"Well, then assume the motion to commit carried I have no objection to holding a hearing on Monday afternoon."
"Alright, ah...right now we stand at 84 ayes', and 80 'nays', and the motion to commit ah...would prevail ah... Now then the gentleman from Logan, Mr. Madigan ah... asked that rule #17 be suspended so that the House Revenue Committee may hear ah...this series of bills on Monday, and the Chairman of the....later in the day we'll get a time. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Immediately after 47. adjournment on Monday. Now is there leave to suspend the rule for that purpose? Alright. Alright...Now we'll get back to House Bills second reading. House Bill 4257."
"House Bill 4257. Bill for an act to promote fair practices in the conduct of Election Campaigns for political offices in the State of Illinois. Second reading of the bill."
"Alright, we're at this posture on this bill we had adopted amendments 1 and 2. Are there further amendments?"
"Amendment no. 3. Lechowicz. Amend House Bill 4257 on page 3, line 10 by striking the...."
"Alright, Gentleman from cook, Mr. Lechowicz."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House. Amendment no. 3 exempts, not for private corpora- tions organized in this State primarily for political purposes. Also eliminates section 403, which makes unlawful for any financial institutions, corporations or labor organizations to make contributions or expenditures in connection with any elections to any State office. However, this section allows a corporation or labor organizations to Solicite contributions to a seperate segregative fund to be utilized for political purposes. I move the adoption of amendment no. 3 to House Bill 4257."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Phill Collins."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, I rise to appose amendment number 3. Ah...amendment no. 3 does two things as the sponsor has indicated. Number 1, it would amend out section 403 of the bill which would remove labor unions, financial institutions and corporations from the scope of this bill. Now in conversations GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 48. with Representatives of those groups, I did personally indicate that I could live with such an amendment ah...in...if it would result in support of the bill, although I was not fully in accord with this provision. However, now this amendment goes even further and amends out not for profit coporations incorpor- ated for political purposes. This would take out all political organizations such as; Ward organizations and central committees. And it seems to me that if we are asking political candidates and their committees to report all expenditures and contributions that they receive, well then it would be ludicrous to allow a poltical organizations organized for the same purposes to take them selves out from the scope of the bill. Ah...we are only opening up a loophole where any candidate who didn't want to report his expenditures ah...or his contributions would have to do nothing more than take all of his funds through an organization organizes not for profit organization, and the...the House bill 4257 would be striped of all meaning. So for these reasons I would urge the ah...resounding defeat of amendment no. 3 to House bill 4257."
"The ah...gentleman from cook, Mr. Glass."
"Will the sponsor yield for a question?"
"Ah Yes."
"Ah... Representative Lechowicz, ah...I listened carefully to Phill Collins statement and I...from what I know about this bill ah...what he says would seem to be true. In other words, if you were to exempt from the reporting requirements a not for profit corporation that could include a political organizations which could collect funds for candidates and the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 49. candidate might not have to report anything. Isn't that in fact what your amendment might do? Gut the bill."
"Well I don't...I never had any intension of gutting the bill. The only thing I know that this General Assembly in it's wisdom passed Representative Jake Wolfe's series of bills in feference to corporations and the reporting requirements in the not-for-profit corporations act and to strengthen that provision I voted for it with the complete understanding on the intent of the bill. And for this reason, I think there's a Juplication of effort, and I think it's absolutely physically impossible to comply with the bill as it is presently written for any organization to live with. That's why I offered amendment no. 3 to this bill."
"Well, Are you, Sorry, I won't prolong this, but are you ah...saying then that there still would be some reporting requirements left for a candidate who...ah...who chose to finance his campaign through a not-for-profit corporation?"
"Yes."
"Gentleman from ah... Sangamon, Mr. Gibbs."
"Mr. Speaker, would the sponsor yield to a question?'
"He indicates he will."
"Representative Lechowicz, on your amendment no. 3 you exempt, as I understand it, labor unions, corporations and not-for-profit corporations. Ah...let me give you an example, in my district here, if my campaign was financed by a corpora- tion, a not-for-profit corporation, I send in my $25.00 and I get registered, and if it's financed by that not-for-profit CERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 50. corporation then there's no requirement for me to make any reporting. Whereas, if someone else in my district did not set up this form of a corporation he would have to report it. Is that a correct understanding?"
"Well, if your corporation is chartered strictly for political purposes, then you still have to report to the Secretary of State on the not-for-profit corporations act. We increased in strength in that series of bills, that's who we have to report to."
"But if it is a not-for-profit corporation as such then it would not have to report. Is that right?"
"If it's set up for political purposes you have to report to the Secretary of State."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, just briefly, I'm very much against this form of amendment because I think if would thoroughly gut the bill and I think it would be a useless bill as passed with this amendment. Thank you."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr Hyde."
"Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House, I think one thing is certain about this amendment, that if it is adopted then campaign reform is a dead duck. Ah...this amendment ah...circumvents a meaningful attempt to regulate campaign spending, campaign contributions, and without, in the least disparaging the distinguished cheif sponsor, or sponsor of this amendment, the fact is that this will permit political organizations, ward organizations, to do pretty much what they please. And therefore, the public will still be in the dark as much as they are now, if not more so, in fact GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 51. more so, because we have the form ah...of doing something about campaign abuses but not the substance. And so it's even more misleading than if we did nothing. This amendment does gut any campaign spending reform, and I hope it will be looked upon by the members in that light, when they cast their vote. I hope this is resoundingly defeated."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Mann."
"Well, Mr. Speaker and members of the House, I'd like to advise Representative Collins, that while I can support him on his amendment I couldn't vote for the bill in it's final form if you are going to prohibit contributions ah...by ah... labor organizations. Ah...because I don't think, I think that's going to work very hard...very much of a hardship on other candidates."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Phill Collins." P.W. Collins. "Ah...Mr. Speaker, if I may answer Representative Mann. Ah...if this amendment that is now being offered is defeated then the amendment excluding labor organizations will be offered. And I am going to support that amendment."
"Further discussion? Gentleman from cook, Mr. J.J. Wolf."
"Would the sponsor of the amendment yeild to a question? Would the sponsor of the amendment yield to a question?"
"Mr. Lechowicz, question? Yes he will."
"Ah...Ted, now on this amendment of yours, I don't have a copy but as I understand it excludes contributions from labor organizations. Now that would be independent, in GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 52. other words they wouldn't be using the members dues. This would be individual contributions. Am I correct on that assumption?"
"Yes you are."
"And ah...an organization such as COPE, the Committee On Political Education, is that incorporated as a seperate organization for political purposes?"
"Yes it is."
"Thank you very much, and by the way ah...thank you for the support of the not-for-profit corporation series which unfortunately the Senate killed."
"Well all I can do is give you my support on this House floor. As for what the other chamber does, I don't think anyone can guarantee in this General Assembly. I don't know if it's been killed or not Jake, but in turn I think they are a good series of bills and I'll support them at all times."
"Any further discussion? Gentleman from ah... cook, Mr. Lechowicz to close."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker. Ladies and gentleman of the House the fact was brought up as far as exemptingah... not-for-profit organizations, that's exactly one of the series of this ah...this amendment does to this bill. It exempts not-for-profit organizations it also exempts labor unions, it also exempts corporations. But in turn there is a tremendous loophole in this bill, all we have to do is set up committees not...not....gather a thousand dollars you never have to report. That's why I move for the adoption of this amendment." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES lion. W. Robert Blair: "Alright, the question is on the adoption of the amendment. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Phill Collins.".
"Ah, yes, Mr. Speaker ah...in explaining my vote, I have to heartily concur with the majority leader. This amendment goes a long way to gutting this bill. It really would make a laughing stock of disclosure, it would open up such a loophole that you could drive a truck through it. Now as I stated I...I did agree with Representatives of organized labor and ah...business and to except the amendment it would take ah...these groups out from under the provisions of the bill. As Representative Mann has indicated he would ah... he would not favor the bill if it retained this provision. So I did... I did agree to amend out section 403 ah...in hope of securing addition support for the bill. Now this was well and good, but then to go beyond it and to allow all political organizations to amend themselves out would be the same thing as saying to every candidate, 'go ahead and amend yourself out, we're not really interested in disclosure, ah...we're just trying to fool the public and make this look good.' So I submit to you that this...this amendment is ah...creates a serious imparement if not a complete distruction of House Bill 4257 and I would ask everyone to consider their vote and cast a no vote on Amendment no. 3."
"Have all voted who wished? Have all voted who wished? The clerk will take the record. O-K ah... the roll. call right now is 79 'ayes' and 77 'yeas', There's 77 yeas' and GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES and 79 'nays Alright now the gentleman from...wait a minute, how's the gentleman from cook, Mr. Cahoun recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as not voting." Hon. W. Robert Blair. "He says vote him 'aye'. So now we're 79 to 78. Gerticman from cook, Mr. Lechowicz."
"Mr. Speaker, would you please poll the aleentocs"
"Alright, there's been a request to poll the absentees. The clerk will proceed to do that."
"R.A. Carter, Chapman, William Cunningham, Giorgi, Ron Hoffman, Holloway, Jaffe, Klosak, Markert, McClain, McCormick,"
"Ah... Ron Hoffman, 'no' How's James Y. Carter Recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as voting 'yes':"
"Alright, the gentleman from cook, Mr. Meyer, How's he recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Record him as..."
"No, please."
"No.. Now the gentleman from cook, ah... Elwood Graham."
"The gentleman is recorded as voting 'no'."
"Record him as 'aye'. On this question there are, Oh, go ahead we're not finished on polling."
"McDermott, McGah, Moore, D. O'Brien, Soderstrom." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Hon. W. Robert Blair: 55. "Alright, D.J. O'Brien, record him as 'aye'. Richard Carter, how is he recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Record him as 'aye'. And Giorgi, how's he recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Record him as 'aye'. Gentleman from ah. Ogle, Mr. Brinkmeier, how's he recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."
"Oh, I'm sorry, the gentleman from Brown, Mr. Markert, how's he recorded?"
"The ah...gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Record him as 'aye'. Lady from ah...cook, how's she recorded?"
"The lady is recorded as not voting."
"Record her as 'aye'. Gentleman from cook, Mr. McGah, how's he recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Record him as 'aye'. Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Redmond, how's he recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as voting 'no'."
"You want to change that to 'aye'."
"May I change that to 'aye'."
"Surely. Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Moore, how's he recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to be recorded as voting Present". GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 56.
"Record the gentleman as present. On this question there are ah...now 86'ayes', 79 'nays' and 1 'present'. Ah...Holloway, How's he recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Record him as 'aye'. Alright, gentleman from adams, Mr. McClain, how's he re...."
"The gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Record him as 'aye'."
"No Mr. Speaker, as present."
"Present, I'm sorry. On this question there are 87 'ayes', 79 'nays', 2 present. And the amendment is adopted, further amendments?"
"Amendment no. 4. Lechowicz. Amend House Bill 427....."
"Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Lechowicz."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House, amendment number 4 raises the threshold of... for disclosure of political contributions ah...contributors names, to $250.000 from $10.00. A political committee which receives a contribution in access of $250:00 previously $10.00 advertantly within the bill, must maintain a detail account of the amount, name, address, occupation or principal place of business, of the person making such contributions. Section 601, page 12 makes every political committee file a statement of organization with the State Board of Election when the committee actually receives a $1000.00 in contributions, which is a threshold for coverage by this bill. Previously these political GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 57. committees which anticipate receiving or make in expenditures an access of $1000.000 during a calendar year had to file a statement of organization with the Board. Section 3 of the amendment is really a clean up section, it involves section 601 page 12, which deletes in the statement of organization required to be filed by the political committees as the following: The area, the scope or jurisdiction of the committee, the party affiliation of the candidate, whether the committee is supporting the entire ticket of any party, or if so the name of the said party. And also includes such other information as shall be required by the board. Basically what it does is it raises the threshold of reporting from $10.00 to $250.00. I've had discussion with both sides of the aisle on this, I know when Brian Duff and I were driving back to Chicago, made. the statement as far as the difficulty of keeping track of the dollar amounts coming in, and I think as far as anyone having anything to say to any candidate in turn as far as political contributinns, I think $10.00 figure is completely unrealistic. I'm ah...as far as this figure goes, $250.00, it was based upon the premise that, this was based upon the discussion of Brian Duff and myself, I move for the adoption of amendment no. 4."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Phill Collins."
"Well, Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentleman of the House, amendment no. 3 that was just adopted was an amendment that seriously impared the bill. But amendment no. 4 is a synical attempt to destroy completely the entire intent of this GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 58. entire bill. The $10.00 figure that was mentioned is not $10.00 reporting as was just stated, the $10.00 contribution is what you have to keep track of by a candidate or committee in their own records, and then they are to report anything in excess of $100.00. Now raising that $10.00 to $250.00 effectively destroyes all disclosure under this bill. Because if you only have to keep a record of amounts under $250.00 you could string out as many $249.00 contributions as you wanted to and would never have to make a report of any contribu- tions or expenditures. This amendment is obvious in its intend, it is to gut this bill. If this amendment is adopted well then the ah...bill will certainly, ah...is destroyed, and I urge every member of this house to stand up on this. This is the worst amendment, I think that will be offered, certainly we must reject this and I urge every member to join me ah... in rejecting this amendment."
"Gentleman from ah... Bureau, Mr. Barry."
"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to say something to the last speaker if I may. I voted against my seat mate over here on the last amendment. But let me respectfully suggest that he 's just talking to the press on all of these amendments and he could make the same arguements whether the dollar amount was $10.00, $11.00 $249.00, $250.00 or whatever, and it's worthless because he's suggesting we as candidates would not keep records. So I think this is a good amendment it's a reasonable amount and I suggest we adopt it." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 59.
"Gentleman from ah..cook, Mr. Glass."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman, I'd like to disagree with the sponsor of this bill, Representativ Collins, who said that ah...the last amendment weakened the bill, or that this one would kill it. I think the last amendment has killed the bill, the bill is now dead and we're...we're kicking it as it lies there on the ground. Ah...I think there's no question, but what ah...raising this $10.00 figure to $250.00 would vertually eliminate ah... any reason to pass the bill at all. This amendment should be resoundingly defeated, if it passes there would be no reason whatever to pass this bill."
"Any further discussion? Gentleman from cook, Mr. Lechowicz to close."
"Ladies and gentleman of the House, I don't believe that his amendment, and I hope...hope that this body believes what I say. I don't want to ruin this bill. I just want to make it livable. And in turn a ten dollar contribution in my opinion, the amount of work that would, with your trying to do, and we do have an accounting for every contribution, but in turn I don't want the State Board of Election Committee ah...State Board come in and state that we want to ah.... I want to know how many $10.00 contributors you have. But basically that's one section of the amendment, and in turn if that dollar figure really annoys some of the people in this house I'll be more than happy to change it to any dollar figure that you want. If you want a dollar fine, let's be reasonable. But I think the important thing in this amendment is as far as the, under the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 60. bill the way it is now, if you anticipate raising $1000.00 well, I don't know, I wish we could raise $10,000.00 for a committee, what this amendment says if you actually raise $1000.00....not anticipate, if you actually raise $1000.00 there's a big difference. This is I think the crust of this amendment and I will hope you will consider it in this vein. As far as the dollar amount on reporting, I'll be more than happy to talk to the sponsor of this bill, but as this figure was discussed between Brian Duff and myself as far as the realities, and this is the reason why it was based at $250.00. I move for the adoption of this amendment."
"What purpose the gentleman from cook, Mr. Duff rise?"
"Point of personal priviledge, Since my name was used in debate. Ah...yes I discussed this subject with Represent- ative Lechowicz and in quite an informal way, expressing an opinion over a wide variety of subjects but that was not meant to express to this house in any way, agreement with this amendment."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Lechowicz,"
"Mr. Speaker, I'll appologize to Representa- tive Duff if he...but all I know is in our conversation we talked about a reasonable dollar amount and if my memory serves me incorrectly, if the figure wasn't $250.00 please correct me."
"Alright. ah...the question is shall this amendment be adopted? All those in favor will vote 'aye'. Opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Have all voted who GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES wished? The clerk will take the record. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Phillip Collins." 61.
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, I'd ask for a poll of the absentees."
"Alright, gentleman has requested a poll. At this time it's 77 'aye's and 75 'nays', and the clerk will proceed to poll the absentees."
"Alsup,"
"Alsup, 'aye'."
"Chapman, DiPrima,"
"DiPrima, 'aye'."
"William Cunningham,"
"William Cunningham, 'no'."
"Graham, Hirschfeld."
"Hirschfeld, 'no'."
"Hunsicker, Jaffe, Kahoun."
"Kahoun, 'aye'. Where's Kahoun? Kahoun 'aye'. Ah... Hunsicker, 'no'."
"Keller, Klosak, Lehman, McAvoy."
"McAvoy, 'aye'."
"McCormick, McDermott, McGah, McMaster."
"McMaster, 'no'."
"Schisler, Soderstrom, Stedelin."
"Stedelin, 'aye'."
"Stone, Waddell, B.B. Wolfe."
"Now it's 82 'ayes', and 79 'nays'. And Eugenia Chapman, how's she recorded?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 62.
"Ah...the lady is recorded as not voting."
"Record her as 'aye'. How's McGah recorded?" Fredric B. Selcke:. "The gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Record him as 'aye'. Now have all voted who wished? There are 84 'aye' and 79 'nays', and this amendment. prevails, is adopted. For what purpose the gentleman from cook, Mr. Phillip Collins rise?"
"Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House, ah...with the two amendments that have now been adopted to House Bill 4257, which have effectively wrecked this ah... this bill, and with other amendments to follow, which would just further ah...inter this corps I would move that his bill that passed the National Congress with bipartisan support and was passed, and was signed into law by President Nixon not too long ago, but we in Illinois are not ready to follow the national stream, I would move that the House Bill 4257 be tabled."
"All those in favor, is there leave? Alright. Is there objection? Is there objection to the gentleman's motion,? Gentleman from ah... Cook, Mr. Lechowicz."
"Mr. Speaker, I won't object to the motion because I think every sponsor of a bill has a parrogative of calling the bill. But I think every member of this General Assembly has also responsibility to make a bill in a liveable form. It's true that the congress enacted present piece of legislation in discussion with the...with the sponsor, it is not the same type of legislation that they have enacted, and in turn I ask them to talk to their respective congressman from GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 63. his own district or any other congressman within the State of Illinois and make the comparison. I in no way wanted to amend this bill into a completely unliveable form. I think the amendments that have been offered and adopted corrected that inequity."
"Alright, ah...hearing no objection then the gentleman will be given leave to table the bill."
"Could I have your attention for a minute? Somebody left a pair of black rimmed glasses in the washroom. ladies glasses."
"Alright, 4465."
"House Bill 4465. Bill for an act to amend the 'School Code'. Second reading of the bill."
"Gentleman from ah...Dupage, Mr. Hoffman. The ah...status of the, is that amendment no. 1 was adopted and ah...amendment no. 2 was offered, objection was raised, was ruled, and we were on amendment no. 2 and at that time the chair ruled that ah...the amendment did not appear to be germane because it was in apparent conflict with the Illinois Revised Statute. Now ah...further study of the matter since that date ah...has, in going in to the ah...way the Reference Bureau has been drafting, ah...these proposals, ah...it would be the chair's position now ah...that ah...this amendment no. 2 may be offered and discussion pursued. Alright? Now that amendment is by the gentleman from cook, Mr. Berman and we recognize him as...it's been read, yea, recognize the gentleman Mr. Berman on amendment no. 2." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 64.
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House. This bill in it's original form is the School aid formular bill, and constituted the governor's recommenda- tions for fiscal 1973. Amendment no. 2, which is under debate at the present time, which I am now offering, is in affect the recommendations of the office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction for the school aid formular for the fiscal 1973. As many of you recall we went into lengthy debate when amendment no.. 2 was originally offered and a roll call vote was taken. That roll call which was not adopted because of the technicalit- ies the speaker referred to, indicated at that time that a majority of people voting on the measure at that time were ih support of increased financial aid to the school districts throughout the State of Illinois. Very briefly I would indicate that this formular consists of two important changes. Number one is a weighted compensatory education stature which provides each district in the State of Illinois with additional state. funds in proportion to the number of poverty children that are attending school in those districts. The National School Financing Project recommended that twice as much money is actually needed to educate children from deprived families to bring them up to the level of children from educationally opportune and financially able families. Amendment no. 2 provides for not a double payment as is compentiatory education factor, but a 1.6 factor which does move towards the recognition of additional costs of educating children from educationally deprived families. The second portion of this amendment is a percented add on which GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 65. this House and this legislature is familiar with, which we have adopted in.... Thank you Mr. Speaker, a percentage add on which we have adopted in each of the last two sessions of the legislature, this formular would add 22% to all the unit district: and the dual districts with 100 or less added ADA. And a 24% add on for dual districts with over 100 ADA. So that we have in amendment no. 2 a bonus factor for the large dual districts throughout the State of Illinois. This formular requires an additional allocation of money over and above the Governor's recommendation. An increase of $127,000,000 ladies and gentle- men. Now many of you have asked the question, 'where is this money going to come from?' And our answer; ladies and gent lemen has been that in order to comply with the mandate of both the Chief Executive of this State who has stated publically in his State of the State message and in his remarks concerning his educational message that education should be our number one priority, I submit to you that this is the way the $126,000,000 can be allocated. Number 1, we have $30,000,000 of the lapsed parochiad appropriation from fiscal 1972. In addition we are asking that 10% of the expected growth in State Revenues for fiscal 1973, a growth of $405,000,000, which 10% of which would be $40.5 million be allocated to education. And 10% certainly is not a disproportionate share if we're going to put education as a top priority. And the balance of $55,5 million dollars would be in keeping with again the recommendations of the Governor for placing education as a top priority a shifting of only 1 1/2 per cent of the general revenue and common school GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 66. funds from last years budget to the formular for fiscal '73. And I have been advised that the cut that has been recommended by the appropriations committee and the minority members of the appropriations committee would more than offset this $55.5 million dollars of reallocation during the current budget determination. I would also point out to you ladies and gentlemen that this is not only a Chicago School formular. This formular, this amendment would give to school districts through- out the state of Illinois money which is sorely needed. Money which is not forthcoming to these school districts under the present formular which exists in 4465. I have distributed a list of school districts in almost every county of the State which would receive less money under the Governor's formular and more money under amendment no. 2 of House Bill 4465. And I invite your perusal to see whether your school districts are going to do better on the original 4465 or under amendment no. 2 to this bill. In closing of these opening remarks I would point out also that those of you who are concerned with the financial situation of the larger school districts in the State, the City of Chicago, that under original House Bill 4465 Chicago, after taking into consideration overpayment for previous years would receive no new cash dollars. Under the amendment no. 2, Chicago would receive approximately $20,000,000 to carry out the needed programs of the Chicago Board of Education. I solicit your affirmative vote on amendment no. 2."
"Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 67.
"Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the House, I wonder if the sponsor of the amendment would yield to a question or two? The $55,000,000 to which you refer the amount of money available in terms of shifting, ah...revenues do you know to what extent the Office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction has reduced their operating budget for whom this formular is being introduced?"
"I do not, I think ah...the change in the budget was minimal. It may even have been ah....I remember there was originally some decreases in now I think it may be a minimal increase but I think in relation to the total budget of the State that the additions are even small decreases of the budget of OSPI, ah...really wouldn't be relevent to the question of whether we can reappropriate our priorities in the total budget allocations."
"Am I correct? You said there would probably be a minimal increase in the operating budget of the ah...agency which is suggesting that we take this formular?"
"I don't have the figures in front of me but I believe that's what the situation is."
"Thank you very much. Ah...ladies and gentlemen I think with the statement just made by the gentleman which I believe is accurate, that in fact, in fact, the agency which recommends this formular, which is $127,000,000 above the monies that are available, that the agency which in fact recommends everyone else, whether it be public aid, conservation, whatever other agency it might be, that they cut their budget, that GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 68. they tighten their belts but don't ask us to tighten our belts. I might also point out that this agency has 46 new employees presently in their budget on line for next year. I make that as one point. The other point that I think needs to be made at this juncture of the legislative session is very simply, ladies and gentlemen it's time that we talk sense to the people of the State of Illinois. Let's stop trying to fool the people. Let's be honest and let's move forward with a reasonable and responsible program which the State can afford. Now I would be the last, as you might well expect, to say that the schools don't have needs that we are unable to meet, but ladies and gentlemen, my family has needs that we're not able to meet and we have to live within the budget that we have. I believe that the amendment which is presently on this formular is a reasonable amendment, one which we can afford. And I say unequivically to. you now ah...that this amendment if adopted to this bill, and I make this as, no threats so please don't misunderstand me but merely as a fact, that if this amendment is adopted to my bill I will be unable, because of the amount of money it will cost, to move the bill off of third reading. And therefore Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time I am going to move that amendment no. 2 be tabled."
"For what purpose the gentleman from cook, Mr. Scariano rise?"
"I was wondering if the Chairman of the School problems commision would yield to a couple of questions?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Hon. W. Robert Blair: 69. "Ah...alright, it's a bit unusual ah...does the Chairman of the ah...would you answer a few questions? Alright, he indicates he will. As I understand that you've indicated at a point in time you intend to offer a motion to table? But you did not offer that motion. Alright, proceed."
"Mr. Chairman, I think you wouldn't argue with the fact that schools are desperately in need of extra funds because of spiraling prices, ah...increases in wages, ah... increases in enrollments and all the other ills that inflict the schools economically. Isn't that right." G.L. Hoffman: are increases." "In the formular which has been adopted there
"No, No, No, I'm saying you really haven't been responsive, you know that schools are inflicted with increasing prices, increased enrollments, increased wages and the need for additional classroom space, isn't that right?" G.L. Hoffman "There are some schools which ah...have increased enrollments, there are some schools which, as in the case of Chicago, you know have decreased...."
"And all of the, all of them are inflicted with increased prices and increasing wages, isn't that right?" G.L. Hoffman:
"They face the same problems that you and I do." "Alright, fine. And now we're proposing a tax freeze with Representative McCormick's bill that forbids, that forbids any kind of an increase with respect to meeting these challenges of increases in prices, enrolments, wages and so forth, isn't this what the thrust of the McCormick Bill is? GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 70. I wonder if the chairman is listening? I'm asking him a question.'
"Would you repeat that I'm sorry I didn't hear you, I thought you were beginning to make a statement. didn't sound like a question." It Anthony Scariano; "No it's a question ah...the thrust of the McCormick bill now is to prevent schools from getting any more money from the local level, isn't that what the thrust of the McCormick bill is?" G.L. Hoffman: I'm not sure." "You'll have to ask representative McCormick,
"Alright, O-K, Now the State, under the Governor Ogilvie formular wants to come up with only about a 4% increase isn't that right?" G.L. Hoffman: fund, I haven't broke it down....." "The increase is $45,000,000 in the distributive
"Well, he talked about a 4% increase, and I imagine that that's what the bill provides. Now my question to you is, that if we're going to freeze local school districts at the local school level with the respect of getting more money through their own resources and you're going to come up with a miserly $45,000,000 or what represents less than a 4% increase, in the State aid formular, where do you propose these schools get the money since you've dried up both of their sources?"
"Mr. Scariano, Representative Scariano, you're getting the hypothesis before the facts. In the sense that McCormick's bill has not been adopted has not been passed. I personally have taken no position on this." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 71.
"Well Mr. Chairman, I only want to make this one statement which I've already covered in the questions to the chairman in which he's successfully, although not skillfully avoided answering, and that is that with the Ogilvie formular you're freezing State funds, and with the McCormick Bill you're freezing local funds. I want you to keep that in mind when you're voting on this amendment proposed by representative Berman, because unless you give the school children of the State, the money that they need to carry on desperately needed programs at a time when we're cutting back on numbers of teachers, their cutting back on curriculum, their cutting back on classroom size, and my own township, a rich township, our high schools will go on double shifts in September, and enrollments are increasing because our principle industry, at least in the suburban area of cook county, is a production of children. who come into schools by the tone of about 60,000 each year in the State of Illinois, 60,000 kids each year who weren't there the year before, it seems to me that we're cutting off our noses to spite our faces when we say, on the one hand that you cannot use local funds even though you may have them, because of Representative McCormick's bill, and the governor is cutting them off with his miserly 4%, I think you'd better be ready to answer your constituents with respect to where and how do you get the admitedly needed funds if you're going to dry up both local and state sources, and I think that everybody ought to get behind Representative Berman's amendment." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 72.
"Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Meyer."
"A few brief question's to the sponsor, Mr. Speaker."
"he indicates he'll yield."
"Representative Berman, during the last session of the general assembly, did you support the income tax?"
"Mr. Meyer, that question was asked by your majority leader last time, and I gave him the following answer: that I refused to support the income tax because at that time the committment that was made by the administration was that a major portion of that income tax money would go to education, and in fact the percentage of state revenue that went to educatic after the passage of the income tax was less than the percentage that was allocated to education before the income tax."
"Fine, you did not support this state income tax. Ah...representative Berman, in your career as a State Legislator, have you ever supported reductions in the approp- riations of either Mental Health, Children and Family Services, or Public Assistance?"
"Would you name those again please?"
"Mental Health, Children and Family Services or Public Assistance."
"In line with my political concept that human suffering should not be played one against the other, I have not."
"Mr. Speaker, if I may briefly address myself to the bill. This is classic example of political hypocracy GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 73. gentleman doesn't support the income tax, he doesn't support reductions in...in appropriations, but yet he comes out ...says spend more money of the State Treasury, Mr. Speaker, as sure as I'm standing here, if there was a reduction this floor for either Mental Health, Public Assistance, or ildren or Family Services, and thank God there is not, he ald not support it, but yet he stands here on this floor 1.I says that we should reduce these appropriations and then :sfer this money to the common school fund. Mr. Speaker, is is a fraud."
"The ah...gentleman from cook, Mr. Lechowicz."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, in response to the ious speaker, we in the appropriations committee have ..:itted to...for the approval of this general assembly the iction of approximately $59,000,000 with various State jet requests. I don't believe, to my recollection, in the :tion of this House floor, that any one of the amendments lat were offered in their appropriations committee have not n adopted on the house floor. Representative Berman has ported the reduction within these state budgets as recommended the appropriations committee. Last year in this general rly did cut ah... Public Aid by approximately $250,000 research division within that agency. Just to set the straight, Representative Meyer."
"Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Glass." . Glass: "Thank you. Mr. Speaker, Will the sponsor yield Questions please?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 74.
"He indicates he will, proceed."
"Ah...Representative Berman, I notice in this formular there's a, I think it's a 6/10 of one percent weighting factor to be added to the normal weightig for each student of a low income family. In other words ah...students of ah...low income families are given more state aid, or their school districts are than ah...students that are not from low income families, is this basically part of the bill?"
"Yes."
"Well now, if that's true I take it that that would apply whether the low income ah... family happened to be in a district which had an assessed valuation per student of $100,000 or $50,000 or $20,000 or $10,000. Is that right?"
"Ah...that's my understanding yes."
"Well is there any justification for giving this additional aid in school districts which are already far wealthier than their neighbors?" Arthur L. Bermán: "The reason for the compensatory education factor is to give recognition first that it's a state responsibil- ity concerning, primary responsibility concerning the funding of education. And number two, that it does cost more whether you're in a rich district or a poor district to educate those children from economically deprives families."
"Well I...again I would have no quarrel with that statement, except that it seems to me by giving ah...more money to districts which are already wealthier we're compounding what ah...what is an existing inequality, Now I have justone GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 75. other question, and that has to do with the dual districts. I think you mentioned that there would be more money for the dual districts, but does this bill do anything to change the qualifying rate of dual districts?"
"Ah...no the ah..the ah...benefits of the dual districts is in the percentage added figures ,....not in the qualifying rate."
"Well under the ah...bill as proposed by ah... the sponsor Representative Hoffman, the ah...qualifying rate for dual districts would be reduced by 3 cents. And I questioned whether that wouldn't do more, even that minimal reduction, wouldn't do more than ah...what ah... your bill proposed to do... or your amendment would do?"
"I...I don't have the figures broken down as to what the ah...three cents qualifying rate differential is as opposed to the 2 per cent additional add on. Ah...I'll be glad to compare them and the figures will speak for themselves.
"The ah...gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Mann."
"Well Mr. Speaker, and members of the House, I would submit that the issue here is not Representative Berman's voting record although it is indeed an excellent one, nor is it mine, although I have voted ah...and did vote for the State income tax, the issue here ah...Representative Hoffman, is not whether or not we're fooling the people it's whether we're fooling ourselves or not. Ah...I can speak for the education my four children, who are in the public schools of Chicago are getting. And it's not a very positive picture. Our GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 76. School are being choked, their being stiffled. They badley need money. They need money for teachers, they need money for curricular, they need money for larger classrooms, they need money for compensatory education. And ah..it's not a question of who get's credit for furnishing them with this money, it's in our own self interest to see that our schools are not choked off. Now I notice that ah..some of the people who have spoken out in opposition to this bill also have occasion to speak out in opposition to ah...appropriations for people in Public Assistance, and I would submit to you that if you want our public assistance rolls to swell and grow, vote against this bill. Because what are we...we are producing in mass numbers, in Chicago, and other parts of the State, are candidates for public assistance rolls. Their not getting a minimal education. Their not learning to read, their not learning to write, and I think that ah...we ought to go with this bill, we're the third wealthiest state in the nation, we can find the money. And in the long run we'll save money by educating our kids. And I urge you to vote 'aye'."
"Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman."
"Mr. Speaker, at this time I would like to renew my motion to table amendment no. 2."
"Alright, now the gentleman has ah...moved to table, now ah...we accord the person whose main point is under discussion and which is the subject of the motion to table to close. And ah...so we'll go back to Mr. Berman and we'll have roll call, and we'll have explaination of votes, or do you want, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 77. Does the gentleman from cook, Mr. Carter, do you want..."
"Ah..Mr. Speaker, on a point of personnal priviledge I would like lave of this House to vote against the motion to table and to vote for the bill should be for the amendment in the event that the motion to table does nct prevail. I unfortunately have a broken rib which is giving me a bit of a problem, and I'd like to go to Memorial Hospital, so I'd like the leave of the House."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Hyde."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, my very good friend, Mr. Carter has every bit of my sympathy which in his case is considerable, but I think we established a very dangerous precidence if we do this. And while I have no objection to Mr. Carter's wishes, I do think the precidence that would be set would be most dangerous and ah...frankly, it is for that reason alone that I very regretably must opposed the gentleman's motion."
"I'm wondering if we might have ah...might not ah..try to ah...accomodate the situation to this extent, ah... could we go ahead and take the roll call and let ah...Mr. Berman ah...close his debate with the roll call up there. That way he will actually will cast his vote ah.... Alright, the question is on the gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman motion to table amendment no. 2, to House Bill 4465. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the Opposed 'no'. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from ah..cook, Mr. Berman, to a close." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 78.
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, in response to some of the statements that we made in opposition to this amendment I would merely point out that I think it's a very tragic political ploy to try to sight that the needs of mentally ill people, that people on public assistance, that the people in need of the services of the division of Children and Family Services have to be played off against the needs of the school children of the State of Illinois. We have more than doubled the State budget in the past three years. We have passed a state income tax, and yet the percentage of State revenue that goes to public education has decreased. The needs of all of these people must be recognized and we don't mean to diminish the merits of any of these others when we ask that this House respond to the constitutional mandate in article 10 that says very simply and very explicitly, that the state has the primary responsibility for financing the system of public education. Under the Governor's proposal the state will be moving backwards from acheiving a greater portion of the funding of our local schools. Under this amendment no. 2 we will be moving forward from 38% to 42% of the total cost of education throughout the State being funded by the state of Illinois. Ladies and gentleman, if we don't defeat this motion to table, if we don't adopt amendment no. 2 we are going to find very shortely a Federal Judge or the U.S. Supreme Court telling us that we are going to have to redo all of our financing of our educational system, that we as legislators are going to have to defer to a Federal Judge to do the legislating. for the financing of our state schools. The U.S. Supreme Court GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 79. has taken jurisdiction of that very question and it is encumpent upon us to fulfill our responsibilities as legislators to respond to the will of the people, to reflect that will that the State has the primary responsibility of financing education and can only be done through the adoption of amendment no. 2 I would also point out that Representative Scariano Stated, that we cannot be hypocritical in urging a limitation on local boards of education regarding House Bill 4680 a tax freeze, and at the same time, saying that they state cannot or should not increase it's obligation to the schools to meet their needs. The Governor's proposal is the smallest increase percentage wise for education in thirty years. 3%, it will mean no money for the Chicago Board of Education. I urge a no vote, a no vote on this motion to table amendment no. 2."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Hyde."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, ah...ladies and gentlemen of the House, in urging an 'aye' vote to table this amendment, several points ought to be borne in mind by the membership. Number one is, I've heard alot about responsibilities, but only responsibility on the part of those who supply the money. This legislature and the taxpayers. I've heard precious little about the responsibility of those who spend the money, those who consume it. But what is factual is, that the quality of education continues to go down, continues to diminish, continues to disintegrate as the contributions from the Treasury continue to escalate to the Board of Education of the City of Chicago. Now it is hardly fair to talk about the small percentage of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 80. increase this year to elementary education without putting it in context with the fact that under this administration the aid to elementary, education has increased 100% from previous years, and aid to the Board of Education of the city of Chicago has increased 120. There's been no showing that the quality of education is directly linked to the amount of money we continue to pour into the city of Chicago with absolutely no accountability, they don't even have a system of bookkeeping that they fully understand, much less the public or the Board itself. Now bear this in mind, ladies and gentlemen, the sponsor of this biil, Mr. Hoffman, has said, if this amendment goes on its going to cost $126,000,000 that isn't in the till, and he's going to table this bill. Now that means that there will be no, repeat no, increases to elementary education this year from this legislature. That's a pretty high price to pay for insisting upon the spending of $126,000,000 that we don't have. Now I listened to the sponsor of this amendment say that we can get $30,000,000 from the parochiad ah...approp- riation which lapsed. Well of course he well knows that money comes out of general revenue, that money is not ear marked for anything and never has been, and if he wants to take that money and give it to the ah... Board of Education and elementary educa- tion, he is gutting the aid to non-public schools, which is a program that this legislature has supported and agreed to. So you gentleman that are voting to support this formular, it seems to me you're voting to deny aid to those children, repeat children, who go to non-public schools, who are also citizens of this state and are entitled to some support. So I submit this GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 81 is a bad amendment and ought to be defeated by an 'aye' vote on the motion to table. The consequences are too great to education itself to let this amendment go on."
"The ah...gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman. Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Juckett." G.L. Hoffman: House." "Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentlemen of the
"Ah...wait a minute, do you want to speak or not? No. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Juckett."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentleman of the House, it was the fervent plea of the sponsor of this amendment that if we did not do what he is asking us to do that the courts would step in and say you're not doing enough and you're not doing 51%, and/or moving up to that with what our constitutions says. I should like to call attention to the learned gentleman from the other side of the aisle, that a suite was filed against my high school township district because the state was not funding 51% and that suite was dismissed by the court for one of jurisdiction, that it was not the mandate for 51%, so his plea should go unheaded, it is false and misleading."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Epton. If those people in front of him would get out of his way ah..we can see him. Thank you."
"Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentlemen of the House, I would have preferred to vote on the question of whether or not the actual dollar involved should or should not go to the school children, rather than the motion to table. However, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 82. I would like to take the opportunity at this time to explain myvote. I think that most of you know that when I first came to the House, and since that time, education has been my nuaber one priority. I agree with all of the previous speakers who have stated that it is the state's primary responsibility, and so it should be. But I was equally fortunate in being asigner a member of a committee investigating the Chicago Bend of Encation. At that time the sponsor of this amendment Arthur Berman, my colleague, we had an opportunity to interrogate the administrators and the Board of Education particularly. I don't think there's any dispute that the bulk of the money that comes out of this appropriation would go to the Chicago Board of Education. But with our responsibility to education there's also responsibility to see to it that the money is well spent. I too am a product of the public schools and so are my children, but my children and I were able to read and to write and to add when we came out of the public school system. Today that does not exist, as a matter of fact, when we interrogated the members of the Board and their various representatives we couldn't even find out how many teachers there were. We had them under administrative categories, we had them in many different fields, the Board of Education, as a matter of fact, themselves indicated, when they questioned Doctor Redmond, that they too are sometimes in doubt. I think that when the Board of Education deliberately attempts to eliminate music and art and physical education and other aspects they do so knowing full well that this is a cry of the heart GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES strings of Chicago. Rather than eliminating the administrators and perhaps some of the janitorial service, so many of the facilities which are not needed. I think it's a shame when the Board of Education in five seperate audits, by five seperate independent auditing firms, was unable to pinpoint what they were doing with their money. I join with all of you who believe very definately that the Board of Education in the city of Chicago needs more money. On the other hand when will they stop with their requests for additional funds. I am rather aprehensive that if these funds are not forthcoming you could very well have a strike. Well, if we're turning out children today, who can neither read, nor write nor spell, perhaps being on the street alter that situation too much. I think the time has come when we must say, 'yes we will support education, but we must get some value for our money, not us, our children and our grandchildren, are entitled to that value for that dollar.' My. children went to a school, they were in excellerated classes, and they got the finest books in the inner city. But those of their colleagues who weren't in the excellerated classes in the inner city got the old tattered tom books, and even those were not enough to go around. I am tired of the people in the inner city being given short shrimp even when addition funds are forthcoming. I would like to help the Board of Education, I have been an advent, a consistent admirer of the public school system, I did not and I will not vote for aid to parochial schools. I agree that any amount of money that we can divert should go to our public school system. But unfortunately, we 83. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 84. in this legislature, must say to the local administrators, 'the money we give you must be well spent, before we can continue to give you additional funds.' I am not happy about my vote at this time. I don't do it without feeling for the great need. But as I say, I was a member of the committee investigating the Chicago Board of Education School System, and I tell you ladies and gentlemen, that as a result of that hearing there were two members presently existing on the Chicago Board of Education who said to me, 'There isn't enough money to cure our ills.' I submit that perhaps by voting to table this, making them live within that budget, making them use their money wisely, perhaps in the near future we can give them more money so that the children will be better educated. It's with great reluctance that. I ask my colleagues to vote to table this amendment."
"Have all voted who wished? The clerk...the clerk will take the record. The ah...gentleman from cook, Mr. Berman."
"I would ask that the absentees be polled, Mr. Speaker."
"Alright the, right now we're standing at 89 'ayes', 78 'nays', on the gentleman's motion to table amendment no. 2. The clerk will proceed to poll the absentees."
"Calvo, Carrigan, Flinn, Gardner, Graham, Klosak, McDermott, Stedelin, Stone."
"How's the gentleman from Marion, Mr. Stedelin recorded?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 85.
"Gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Record him as 'aye'. Alright the...on this question there are. Gentleman from Marion, Mr. Stedelin, for what purpose do you Rise?"
"I meant to vote 'no' instead of 'aye'. Change it to 'no'."
"Alright, change the gentleman to 'no'. Alright the roll now is 89 'aye's, 79 'nays'. Gentleman from Fayette, Mr. Brummet, I'm sorry the gentleman from St. Clair Mr...yea how's he recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."
"Alright, record the gentleman as 'no'. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Berman."
"Mr. Speaker, I'd ask that a verification be taken.:
"Alright. The gentleman has requested a verification. The members will be in their seats. Before we start, how is the gentleman from Madison, Mr. Calvo, recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as not voting."
"Vote me 'no', Mr. Speaker."
"Record the gentleman as 'no'. How's the gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Jacobs, recorded?"
"Vote me 'aye', or vote me 'no', please."
"How's he recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'yea'."
"Alright, change that to 'nay'. Alright, let's be in the seats...what's the rollcall now? Alright the rollcall now stands at 87 'aye's, and 82 'nays'. 87 'ayes' and 82 'nays'. On the motion to table. Now the clerk will GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 86. proceed to...What purpose the gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman rise?"
"Ah, Mr. speaker, point of inquiry. Do we...ah. we want a verification of the 'nay' votes as come after the 'aye' votes? Or in the reverse order?"
"No, we start with the verification of the affirmative. How's the gentleman from ah... Kane, Mr. Hill, recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'nay'."
"Vote me 'aye', Mr. Speaker."
"Alright, record the gentleman as 'aye'. Proceed to verify the affirmative."
"Anderson, Bartulis, Blades, Bluthhardt, Borchers, Brenne, Burditt, Campbell, Capuzi, Clabaugh, P.W. Collins, Conolly, Cox, L. Cunningham, R.D. Cunningham, W Cunningham, Day, Duff, Dyer, Epton, Fleck, Friedland, Gibbs, Glass, Granata, Hall, Harpstrite, Henss, Hill, Hirschfeld, G.L. Hoffman, R.K. Hoffman, Houde, Hudson, Hunsicker, Hyde, Janczak, Jones, Juckett, Kahoun, Karmazyn, Kipley, Kleine, Lauterbach, Lehman, Lindberg, E.R. Madigan, McAvoy, McCormick, McDevitt, McMaster, Meyer, K.W. Miller, P.J. Miller, Moore, Murphy, Neff, North, Nowlan, G.M. O'Brien, Palmer, Pappas, Philip, Randolph, Redmond, Regner, Rose, Schlickman, Schoeberlein, Sevcik, Shapiro, Simms, Simmons that is, W.T. Simms, Soderstrom, Springer, Telcser, J.W. Thompson, Tuerk, Waddell, Wall, R.A. Walsh, W.D. Walsh, Walters, Washburn, G. Washington, Williams, J.J. Wolf, Mr. Speaker." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Hon. W. Robert Blair: "Alright, question of the affirmative?"
"Ah...Harpstrite?"
"He's there."
"Ron Hoffman?"
"He's right here."
"Hunsicker?"
"I don't see him in his seat, how's the gentleman recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."
"Take him ah...off the record."
"T.J. Miller?"
"He's there."
"Rose? I see him, he's there. they've got a crowd around him. Sevcik?"
"He's there."
"Shapiro?"
"He's there."
"Soderstrom?"
"How's the gentleman recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'yea'."
"Take him off the record he's not in his seat."
"Campbell? Gibbs?"
"Alright, Hunsicker's back on the floor, so put him back on. Now Henss is back there."
"Henss wasn't taken off."
"No." 87. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 88.
"Fleck?"
"He's there, yea. In the aisle."
"Ah...Gibbs?"
"He's back in the back."
"Ah...Pappas?"
"He's there."
"Ah...Redmond?"
"Redmond. How is Redmond recorded?"
"Gentleman is recorded as voting 'yea'."
"And he's here. Gentleman from Cook, Mr. McAvoy,, for what purpose do you rise?"
"Ah. How am I recorded?"
"How's the gentleman recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as voting 'yea'."
"Gentleman from lake, Mr. Matijevich."
"Mr. Speaker, how am I recorded?"
"How's the gentleman, recorded?"
"The gentleman is recorded as voting 'nay'."
"No. Yes. Alright are there any further questions on the affirmative? Gentleman from ah...Kane, Mr. Hill, what purpose do you...you want to change your vote now from 'yea'to 'nay'. You've got that straightened out. Alright. What purpose does the gentleman from Moultrie Mr. Stone, Rise?"
"How am I recorded Mr. Speaker?"
"Well alright, wait just a second, the clerk is making sure we've got an accurate tallie here and we'll.... not voting, you're not shown as voting." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 89.
"May I be recorded as 'no'."
"Alright, record the gentleman as 'no'. Gentleman from ah...St. Clair, Mr. Flinn, he wants to know how he's recorded. Flinn, Flinn. Not voting. Record the gentleman as 'no'. What purpose the gentleman from cook, Mr. Berman Rise?"
"On the affirmative, Mr. Randolph?"
"Alright, Randolph's still here. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Simmons."
"Mr. Speaker, may I go to the washroom?"
"If you have to. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Schlickman."
"Mr. Speaker, I'm not old enough, and I didn't see the Dempsey, Tunnie fight but now I know what is meant by a long count. Ah...I would like, Mr. Speaker, to refer you to rule #83 of the House, which says no person shall visit or remain at the clerk's desk while the 'yeas' and 'nays' are being called. I'm wondering if counting includes calling?"
"Well, they've retired to their respective corners. The ah...roll call is 86 'ayes' and 84 'nays'. And the gentleman's motion to table prevails. Gentleman from cook, or Champaign, Mr. Clabaugh."
"Having voted on the prevailing side on the question, Mr. Speaker, I move the vote by which this amendment was tabled to be reconsidered."
"Gentleman from ah...McLean, Mr. Hall moves that that motion lie upon the table. All those in favor of the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 90. motion to table will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Alright, have all voted who wished? Alright its...Clerk will take the record, on this question there are 88 'ayes' and 84 'nays', and the motion to table prevails. Third reading. Alright, back to second with it, I guess there are further amendments. Further amendment?"
"Amendment no. 3, Glass. Amends House Bill 4465 on page 5 line 1, by deleting 90% inserting in lieu there of 77%. And on page 5 by deleting lines 9 through 13 and inserting in lieu thereof the following; and so forth."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Glass."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House many of the legislators of this house represent ah...districts which have contained within them dual school districts and of course we know that the dual school districts are those which put into a single district a high school and into another seperate district an elementary school as opposed to the unit district which includes ah...grades 1 12. Now for many years this state has discriminated against the dual school districts in the amount of state aid which is granted."
"One moment please. What purpose does the gentleman from Champaign, Mr. Clabaugh rise?"
"Mr. Speaker, I want to raise a point of order. I'm sorry to do this on my friend, but this bill has now already been amended and this amendment, as offered by Representative Glass, does not include in it as amended. So I raise the point of order on the form of the amendment." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 91.
"We would ask leave to write it in, if that is the case."
"Well, the gentleman's point is well taken. This amendment is in conflict with the bill as it was amended by amendment no. 1."
"May I ask, Mr. Speaker, In what respect ah... ah...is it in conflict. We could certainly ask leave to correct the amendment ah..."
"Well, you can't do it by leave, you'd have to correct it. Ah...it's just in conflict ah...and you'll have to offer a proper amendment for it to be considered. It conflicts with the bill as amended by amendment no. 1. Page 5, line 13 was amended ah...right after the period following percentage signed with the language; 'and further provided at high school districts, etc., and your amendment would delete line 9 through 13 and insert in lieu of there the following; 'the sum of 520 per pupil in, and then you leave, 'however, school districts not and', and that on line 13 in the bill but as it was amended by amendment no. 1 ah...that language came out."
"Well thank you, Mr. Speaker, ah...we would ask leave then ah...to correct amendment no. 3 so it does conform with the bill as amended. Ask leave to hold the bill so this can properly be prepared."
"Gentleman from ah.. DuPage, Mr. Hoffman."
"Mr. Speaker, due to the lateness of the time of the session ah...they'll have an opportunity to look at this GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 92. in the Senate, this is just a House Bill, we have one other amendment a put on and we need to move this bill out of here tomorrow'ah...therefore I would like to consider the next amendment ah...which is being proposed ah...and move the bill to third reading. And I will talk to Representative Glass ah...in the mean time, regarding his amendment."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Simmons."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, ah..the amendment ah...that we're considering would ah...change the bill, but so would the one that we were just talking about ah...with Mr. Berman. That took everything out, including amendment no. 1 and the original bill. Now Mr. Glass's amendment could be adopted by simply saying the amended as amended and it would take out that portion of lines 13 that was put in with amendment no. 2, no. 1, so ah... I think that if Mr. Glass would want to proceed along that line, knowing full well that he's taking some of the material out, ah...of amendment no. 1 we could do so."
"Well, it really won't work ah...his amendment ah...goes to page 5 by deleting lines 9 through 13, and inserting in lieu of there the following; the sum of 520 per pupil and the average daily attendance. However, school districts not and. Now amendment no. 1 ah...left line 13 in tact and then inserted after the period following the percentage point this additional language; so those are in conflict ah...as I see it. For the moment we'll take this out of the record. Gentleman from Dupage, Mr. Hoffman." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 93.
"Mr. Speaker, we have one other amendment on the table. I would like to consider that amendment move the bill to third. Representative Glass, I'll sit down and take a look at this amendment, which I oppose, but I'm willing to discuss it with him and consider the possibility of coming back at.... maybe tomorrow."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Glass."
"Well ah... Mr. Speaker ah...with all due respect to the distinguished sponsor ah...I don't want to do anything to ah...destroy the chances of this bill. However, it is very important, as far as I'm concerned and I think many other legislators in the House, that we do have a hearing on this amendment. And I'd be happy to ah...have it put in proper form just as fast as possible and come back with it within a half hour, or else ah...have the understanding that we could call it back to second tomorrow for purposes of hearing this amendment."
"Alright, I'm... I'm prepared to rule that the amendment is not in order. Ah...the gentleman from cook Mr. Glass's amendment is not in order. Ah..and ah...we'll go on to the following amendment. And for purposes of clarifying the record, we're going to re numb....if it's alright with you Mr. Glass, We'll renumber your's as four and the amendment from Mr. Hoffman as number 3 and then we'll consider that and then we'll work on four after we get rid of three." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 94.
"Amendment ah...no. 3 Shapiro. Amend House Bill 4465 as amended on page 9, line 23 by striking the period and inserting in lieu thereof the following; provided in the event of state university ceases to operate such a school said deductions shall be removed from the claim filed on August 15 immediately following the closing of the school."
"The ah...gentleman from Lee, Mr. Shapiro."
"Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the House, ah...as you all know those communities that have large numbers of public employees receive state impaction claims. However, if the state university located in that area operates a laboratory school there is a deduction made against this claim. This amendment provides that when that laboratory school closes that such deduction is removed from the claim filed on August 15th. This amendment has support on both sides of the aisle. And I would recommend it's adoption."
"Discussion? Gentleman from cook, Mr. Shea."
"Yea, would the sponsor yield for a question?"
"He indicates that he will."
"Gene, I don't understand the import of the amendment, but there has been a request, or is this Doctor Shapiro's amendment? There has been a request for one of the universities to take over ah...a parental school in Chicago. Now am I to understand correctly that if the university operates a lab school you loose the impaction aid."
"Ah...Representative Shea, the way the law now stands that if a university operates a laboratory school in an GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 95. area. where there is a state impaction claim because a certain number of students do not qualify for state aid, there is a deduction against the impaction claim. When the laboratory school closes this deduction is removed."
"When what?"
"When the laboratory school closes and these children move into the public school system this amendment will allow them to get their full claim when they file their impaction claim immediately after August 15th."
"Alright, but are you telling me that if a university runs a lab school that you get no impaction aid in the school system?"
"The school system does get some impaction aid but there is a deduction against it. That's the law now."
"Thank you."
"Any further... The gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman."
"Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House, I've discussed this amendment with Representative Shapiro and the people from DeKalb it involves no additional money, it merely provides for early payment of the money because the laboratory school is closing there and those three hundred students who have been there in the past in the lab school will go into the public school and I urge your support."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Burditt."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the House, I appologize. When the clerk read the amendment there GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 96. was so much noise I couldn't hear it. Ah...would it be out of order, Mr. Speaker, for the clerk to read us the wording of the amendment again, it's a very short one, but I'm sorry I just couldn't hear it."
"Sure. Ah...let's hold it down. Clerk will read the amendment."
"Amendment no. 3. Amend House Bill 4465 as amended on page 9 line 23 by striking the period and inserting in lieu thereof the following; provided in the event a state university ceases to operate such a school said deduction shall be removed from the claim filed on August 15th immediately following the closing of the school."
"Alright, the gentleman from cook, Mr. Burditt.'
"Ah...I wonder if the sponsor would yield?"
"Ah...he indicates he will."
"Ah...Doc, I take it that this applies only to those districts in which there is a state university, is that right?"
"It applies only to those districts in which a state university operates a lab school."
"Alright, now would this have any effect on another district which has residents who are going to the lap school? How would they be effected?"
"Well, if the only way this amendment effects anyone at all is if the district is receiving state impaction claims. This amendment effects only those school districts which receive state impaction money. A district could be sending a student to a lab school and that district could not GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 97. be receiving state impaction monies. However, when those student return to the school district they will receive there ah...regular state aid."
"Well, now ah...My district doesn't have a state university with a lab school in it, but my district does send student to a lab school ah...run by a state university. Is this going to have any effect on the amount of money that ah...that the school district in my district receive or any of or I gather vertually everybody in the House would be affected by this. Is...his districts would be effected by, because...his school districts would be effected because ah... nearly all of us live in districts which send students to lab schools but very few of us live in districts which have a lab school in the district."
"Ah...Representative Burditt, as, when these students return to that system, and the ADA goes up, the ah... school districts will receive ah...additional amount of state aid."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentlemen of the House, ah..those answers ah...seem to me to be proper. The ah...amendment does look to me like its a good one. Represen- tative Hoffman has indicated that it will not have any effect on the total amount of revenue. On the other hand ah...it seems to me that it necorarily is going to effect the distribution of the total revenue. Ah...and I ah...maybe I'm thick, Dr. Shapiro, but I don't quite understand where that redistribution of the ah...of the income will go. Is it going to increase the SENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 98. amount of money that some districts are going to get and decrease the amount that others will get?"
"Ah... Well, Mr. Speaker, I consider these questions dilatory. I think the amendment has been explained fully and I would appreciate a roll call."
"Gentleman from ah...gentleman from DuPage Mr. Hoffman."
"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."
"All those in favor say 'aye'. Opposed 'no'. 'Ayes' have it, the previous question's been moved. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Burditt, ah...on the ques....."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, I don't think its a dilatory question when I ask what effect this amendment is gonna have on my districts, are the school districts in my district gonna more money or less money? Maybe I'm being dilatory, but I don't think the question is."
"Alright, the ah...question is; shall the... for what purpose does the gentleman from cook, Mr. Burditt rise?"
"I'm sorry, Mr. Speaker, but I think I'm entitled to an answer to the question, as to what effect this is going to have on the school district in a district like mine which is vertually everybody in this House that doesn't have a lab ah... school in it. Is it going to increase or decrease the amount of money that the school districts in my legislative districts receive from the state? That's not a dilatory question."
"Well, the previous question had been moved, but the gentleman from Champaign Mr. Clabaugh ah...on the answer." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 99.
"Ah...Mr. Burditt, ah... Mr. Speaker, has already ah...confessed to being stupid or thick, I don't remember which he said. It will have no effect on your district or any other district in the state of Illinois except that one."
"Alright, the question is on the motion to adopt amendment no. 3. Roll call has been requested. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The clerk will take the record. Alright, the ah...gentleman ah...from ah...cook, Mr. William Walsh."
"Mr. Speaker, I was trying to get your attention in order that I could explain my vote."
"I'm sorry, go ahead."
"Ah...I think we ought to take a look at this in connection with a look at the entire impaction problem. We are paying alot of money through state funds that ah...while the gentleman from cook, Representative Burditt was answered I suppose correctly in saying that it ah... the impaction funds aren't going to any effect on his district except indirectly he is going to be deprived in his district of funds for his schools because impaction funds are going to places like Springfield, Champaign, Macomb, Charleston, Carbondale and other areas and I think perhaps we ought to consider that maybe places like River Forest that has a great amount of assed valua- tion in private colleges and places like Evanston that have the same problems, those schools are not given any benefits from impaction funds, but are providing great benefit to the taxpayers there. I think we ought to consider in considering this amendment GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES the impact of impaction on school districts. 100. Now I submit in you that you don't vote yes too hastily."
"Gentleman from st...St. Clair, Mr. Krause."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, when ah...I am explaining my vote here, when ah...Representative Shapiro was explaining this amendment to Representative Burditt I was trying to follow that And then Representative Clabaugh said that it didn't efechanybod's district in the whole state, except Shapiro's. Now are we putting an amendment on the school bill just for one district in the State? I wonder if Representative Shapiro would answer that for me? I'd like to get that one point clarified."
"Gentleman from Lee, Mr. Shapiro."
"Ah...yes, because that's the only school district that's closed ah...where the laboratory school was elosed."
"Is...is this the only school with ah...that has the laboratory in the impaction?" David C. Shapiro:. "No. There are several others that are not closing, but this only affects the district when a laboratory school closes."
"O-K, but if some of the others were to close in the future this would effect them then?"
"As of right now it only effects..."
"Effects the one in your district."
"That's right. It'll help the other ones if and when they should close."
"If they get in trouble?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 101.
"Yup."
"Alright, On this question there are 138, 137 'ayes', l'nay', 1 'present'. And this amendment no. 3 is adopted. For what purpose does the gentleman from ah... cook, Mr. William Walsh, rise?"
"Mr. Speaker, before ah...advancing this bill to third reading, I want to make a motion. Ah...I wonder if I could be recognized for that if that was your intention?"
"Well, Ah...if there are no fur.... Are there any further amendments? Well, my next course is to put the bill on third yes."
"Well ah... Mr. Speaker, in view of that, and in view of the fact that Representative Glass had an amendment and will be here within a few minutes with that amendment to offer to this bill and he probably would not have that opportunity if the bill were advanced to third reading, I move that the further consideration of this bill be postponed until the Hour of 5:15, and ah...my reason for making this motion is as stated so that Representative Glass will have an opportunity to ah...attach his amendment to this bill."
"Now if Mr. Hoffman would come up here and Mr. William Walsh for just a moment. Alright, gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. William Walsh."
"Mr. Speaker, I withdraw my motion to postpone for the consideration of....."
"Alright, then the gentleman from DuPage ah... Mr. Hoffman asks leave to ah take this bill out of the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 102. record with all action to date of course ah...being in tact has been taken on it. And ah...we'll leave it on second reading then. Is there leave for that, no objection? Alright, then we'll leave it ah...on second for the time being. Alright, ali...we'll go to constitutional amendments ah...second reading. SJR 62."
"Senate Joint Resolution number 62. Constitution- amendment. Second reading of the resolution. No committee amendments."
"Any amendments from the floor?"
"Amendment no. 1, Hanahan, Amend Senate Joint Resolution 62 on page 2 line 4, by striking the period and inserting at the end of the line the following: 'and be it further resolved that this joint resolution shall not be deemed to ratify the proposed amendment to the United States Consitution unless and until such time as the United State Consitution is amended to include the following language; equality of rights under law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State on account of race, color, national origin, or religion."
"Gentleman from McHenry, Mr. Hanahan."
"Mr. Speaker, and members of the House, this amendment to the Senate Joint Resolution 62, the equal rights amendment, would put the shoe where it belongs. It would say whether or not people are for true non-discrimination and equal rights for all people including....for reasons of race, color, national origin, or religion." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 103.
"One moment please, the lady ah...from ah... cook, Mrs. Chapman."
"Ah...point of order Mr. Speaker, ah...is this a germane amendment? It appears to me that the United States Consitution provides only for ratification and makes no provision for a conditional ratification. Would you rule on this please?"
"Does the ah...gentleman from McHenry, Mr. Hanahan desire to ah...comment before I rule?"
"On the point of order that the lady from cook has raised, I think that if you read the consitution of the State of Illinois that we are a soveriegn state, that we have the right to petition congress in any many we so choose. I don't believe that the amendment is not germane, and there's no rules as far as I can see in the book of rules running the order of business of this House, saying that an amendment cannot be offered on a constitutional amendment. In fact, everything indicates by the readings of first second and third readings, that amendments are to be offered on second reading according to the rules of the House. And I submit Mrs. Speaker, that Illinois is a sovereign state, it is not subjected to just the whims and wishes of a few, that it is something that should be decided by the General Assembly, and if we want to ratify an amendment to the consitution, based on certain points of true value on whether or not...of what we're doing, I think that this amendment should be ruled in order and heard and let the membership of this House vote it up or down. And if people don't want to vote on whether their discriminatory on race, and GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 104. religion and color and ethnic background, let them, you know, do something else. But let us now go on the affirmative side. and have a vote of the House on whether or not people want to discriminate, as a soveriegn state, as a state within the United States, saying what congress should do."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Hyde."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, if I may ah... support Mr. Hanahan, ah...in this regard. It seems to me that congress ah...has no right to put handcuffs or shackles on this legislature ah... this is a resolution before us, and to say that we may not amend any legislation or any resolution before us, it seems to me is a gross invasion of the sovereign power of this legisla- ture. Now ah...surely this matter is before us to ratify what congress has done, but ah..certainly we can set our own terms as a sovereign state. And so I would submit that the amendatory process cannot be suspended by any act of congress ah...nor any sentiments expressed by the distinguished co-sponsors of Joint Resolution 62."
"Ah...the ah...lady from ah....DuPage, Mrs. Dyer."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentlemen of the House, in support of Representative Chapman ah...for point of order, I would like to call the speakers attention to the Attorney General's opinion ah...in the correct proceedure for states to follow when they are considering ratification of an amendment to the Federal Constitution. Ah...the summation of his opinion is that the people of the various states surrender GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 105. their power to enact any restrictions on amendments when they agree to the federal constitution. And you remember in the same vein he ruled out ah...any question of having to have a three fifths majority and that sort of thing. I submit that this follows within the scope of the Attorney General's opinion, it would obviously not be in our power ah...to set stipulations on the ratification of an amendment."
"Is there any further ah...on that point? Gentleman from cook, Mr. Rayson."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, as a parlaimentary inquiry I would direct and urge that you rule on the points so wisely raised by the woman from DuPage. I think her point is well taken. And that any type of minipulation to a point which might help some people vote for a resolution, but which would give us a very defective resolution for not, as far as ratifica- tion purposes, I suggest that this should call for the chair to rule that the gentleman's amendment is out of order."
"Is there any further discussion? Gentleman from cook, Mr. Juckett."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, in reference to the lady from DuPage, I would suggest that the Attorney General is not correct. I would suggest that the State of Illinois is acting on behalf of the residents of the State of Illinois and as a sovereign state of this union. And I would suggest that we are not in a federal capacity, but we are acting as a state of Ill....as a state, and that we are amending the federal consitution as a state, because it applies to us as a state. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES And we are not doing the will of the 106. congress, we are doing the will of the people of the State of Illinois. And I think the sooner that we realize that we are a sovereign state one of fifty, that we can do our will much better."
"Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Simmons."
"Well Mr. Speaker, ah...I would like to add my voice to the feeling that we have the choice of either voting to ratify the amendment to the constitution as congress has worded it, or defeat it. And any change whatsoever that we make in fact, will be the same as voting no on the motion to adopt 62. I think this is a back door method of trying to kill ah...the possibility of Illinois trying to ratify this amendment to the federal constitution. And I believe if you'll just stop and think a minute, out of the fifty states, if each one were to change it a little bit, and ratify it as they changed it, ah...what kind of a situation would they have in Washington when they've got fifty qualified yes's on ratification and each one were different. So I think it should be chrystal clear that we should vote this amendment 62 in its present form up or down and not tamper with it by placing any type of an amendment on it."
"The ah...gentleman from cook, Mr. Maragos."
"Mr. Speaker and members of the House, in support of the position taken by the two co-sponsors of this amendment, I refer the chair to House rule #47a; which by implication states, that we cannot amend a resolution dealing with a consitutional proposition. I says; amendments to bilis except amendments GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 107. striking out emergency provisions and amendments resolutions proposing constitutional amendments may be offered. By the excepting clause and phrasiology, we...it is applied that we cannot amend constitutional propositions as they are offered to the House. And therefore I support that a proposition that the amendment and the exceptions to the constitutional amendment is out of order."
"The ah...gentleman from cook, Mr. Meyer."
"Mr. Speaker, not to belabor the point. Rep... ah..rule 47 as I would interpret it refers to the fact that the amendments must be printed and distributed and by inference says that amendments striking out the emergency provision in amendments to resolutions of a constitutional amendment need not be printed and distributed."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. B.B. Wolfe."
"Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentlemen of the House, I think that the ah...the resolution of this particular problem is properly contained in 53b ah...of our rules. Now we are dealing with a congressional action for the purpose of ratificatic which means that we either ratify or we reject the ratification and that is the thrust of the resolution which is now before this house. The requirement that it be placed on the Calendar on three seperate legislative days before consideration for passage, does not mean nor infer that ah...it is subject to an amendment which would effect the congressional proposition which has been submitted to the legislatures of the fifty states. And I would say that the lady from cook, and the lady from DuPage GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 108. have a valid point on the germaness of the proposed amendment to the congressional ah...resolution which we are not consider- ing. I would think that the amendment would be out of order."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Hyde."
"Well, I just want to add one thing Mr. Speaker, we have submitted the processing of this resolution as congress ah...has proposed it to the procedures of this House. We have required it to go through committees, we have required it to have three days of reading on the calendar. All of those are rules not imposed upon us by the federal constitution, they're our own rules....."
"One moment, the gentleman from lake, Mr. Pierce, what purpose do you rise?"
"Mr. Speaker, ah... point of order, as much as I admire the majority leader, I don't believe he can speak twice ah...in support of Mr. Hanahan's amendment."
"I didn't realize he had spoken once."
"In avoiding the speaker having to make a ruling, I will sit down and thank, My thanks to the gentleman from Lake."
"Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Mann."
"Well, Mr.Speaker, I wish Representative Hanahan would put the Hatchet away and the machine gun. He knows very very well that if this amendment ah...were to pass and then the bill were to pass with the amendment on it ah...we would have a bill which would be a nulity because it would depend upon an additional act of the congress. And any bill which depends upon an additional act of another body, ah...can have GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE, OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 109. no affect until that body acts. So Mr. Speaker, I would ask you. Mr. Speaker, if I could get your attention Mr. Speaker, ah...Mr. Speaker ah..."
"Yes, I'm prepared to rule now."
"I would ask you ah...to declare that this amend- ment is out of order because if it is afixed and then it passes ah...while you'll have a bill which will be a nulity because it would depend upon a future act of another body."
"Yes, the chair is prepared to rule that, after listening to the various arguements that have been made on the point, ah...that the amendment does not direct itself to the ah...the ah...action of congress as such, ah...any of the language that's in ah...that ah...the congressional action. It's tying on ah...a condition. And within making this a conditional ratification ah...that is...in other words the affirmative action in passing this thing would be a nulity if this amendment were to be adopted, unless action were taken outside the control of Ah...this general assembly. Ah...for that reason the chair is going to rule that the amendment, that amendment no. 1 is not in order. Ah...and ah...for those reasons. Gentleman from McHenry, Mr. Hanahan."
"Mr. Speaker, I know better than, nor have I ever asked for a overruling of a ruling of the chair, nor will I do it now. But my name has been mentioned in debate and I would just like to take one minute in support of what I was trying to attempt to do. I think Mr. Speaker, that when we have a constitution which I did not support in the State GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 110. of Illinois, that was ratified by the majority of people in Illinois, saying that three fifths of the members of the House should ratify constitutional amendments, that we should live up to this. I think also that, when it says that a general assembly should not vote on an issue until after a general election in their seats, I think we should have lived up to this, but somehow it seems that the Attorney General's rules are more important than what the will of the people have when they enacted a new constitution and said this is whats going to be...the way we're going to run the general assembly under the legislative article. Now I submit Mr. Speaker, that many members of this House would have been sitting on a very tender spot if they had to vote for equal rights under law, not to be denied or abridged by the United States or any state on account of race, color, national origin, or religion. I just wanted to put on notice some of these so called flaming Liberals that run around the state preaching one thing and doing another. I think it's about time we look at things as they are, and if in the wisdom of this general assembly, had we been allowed to vote on this, I think we would have been saying to the congress of the United States that what you sent to us is not what we want to vote on. That we wanted to vote on the true issues of equality whether you're Irish, or Polish, or Lithowanian, or whether you're Swedish, and whether you're black, or yellow, or red, or white, or whether your go to a Synagog, or whether you go to a church, or if you don't go at all. I think these are the pressing issues of the times, and I thought Illinois GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 111. should lead these states in the United States, telling congress exactly how we feel. That if we want to ratify an amendment to the constitution, that meant something to the people, then we'd ratify this type of amendment, not the type that was offered to us through some minipulations and then concurred in on how it's going to be voted on here in this House by the Attorney General of this State. I think it's a shame that we can throw out the rules of the constitution, abridge the rights of membership of this House, by saying we go through the process of three reading, we go through the process of having an amendment speach, and then be denied this opportunity. It won't help get any votes, as I see it Mr. Speaker. Thank You."
"For what purpose does the gentleman from cook, Mr. Lechowicz rise?"
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, just a point of clarification. Representative Pierce questioned the validity of Representative Hyde speaking on the matter twice. And initally when he got up to speak the second time he said that it was something he had omitted in his first statement. I just want to ah...I think that's a bad practice to establish. I know that the leadership on this side of the Aisle was afforded the courtesy of speaking once, twice and maybe three times on the subject matter. If there was an additional though that came into their minds. I just want you to know, Representative Hyde, if you need be, you can have my time." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 112.
"Third reading. Alright, now back to House Bills second reading. House Bill 4465. That's the one we've had prior action on ah...further amendments."
"Amendment no. 4. Glass. Amend House Bill 4465 as amended by House Amendment no. 1 on page 5, line 1, by deleting .90% and inserting in lieu thereof; .77%. And on page 5 by deleting lines 9 through 13 and including in the texed added in line 13 by house amendment no. 1; inserting in lieu thereof the following; sum of $520 per pupil on average daily attendence, however, school districts not."
"Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Glass."
"Mr. Speaker, ah... ladies and gentleman, thank you for the courtesy of having the opportunity of ah...placing this amendment in the correct form, and briefly to explain it. The amendment as I earlier indicated would give some relief to the dual school districts. Those are districts which are either high school only, or elementary districts ah... a grades 1 through 8 only. Now for the past 20 to 30 years the State of Illinois has had a policy of providing more státe aid per pupil to ah,... districts, unit districts, that is districts having grades 1 through 12. Last year we provided a modicum of relief to the dual districts by reducing the qualifying rate ah...three cents for highschool districts and three cents for ah...elementary districts. This is till not peridee, ladies and gentlemen and I think in view of the United State Supreme Court ah...excepting the Texas case, which goes specifically to the question of whether its constitutional to provide more GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 113. ah...money for children in one school district than in another one, this particular issue is being brought into sharp focus. We can see here that it is obvious that we are providing directly for the State of Illinois more money in state aid for pupils simply because they are in a unit type of district rather than the dual districts. The original objective of forcing districts to consolidate through this discrimination in state aid has vertually been accomplished since the number of school districts in the state has decreased from something around 12,000 down to 1,144. The remaining districts by enlarge are not small districts and the reason for the original distinction between units in dual districts is gone. Now what this bill does specifically is to take 10 cents off the qualify- ing rate for unit districts and ten cents off the qualifying ah... rather for high school districts and for elementary districts. The bill proposed by Representative Hoffman ah...school problems commission proposal, would only reduce these qualifying rates by 3 cents. This I would hasten to point out, does not bring about full peridy, but it does give the dual districts a signifi- cant ah...ah...increase in their state aid and does something a little more significant about reducing this discrimination that exists between the unit and dual districts, and I would urge your support for the bill...or for the amendment."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Berman."
"Would the sponsor yield?"
"Ah...he indicates he will." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Arthur L. Berman: 114. "Ah...Bradley ah...you'll be lowering the qualify- ing rate for the ah...ah...unit districts from ah...presently from ah...87 cents to 77 cents is that correct?" Bradley M. Glass: that's correct." "Ah...yes it would ah...reduce it to 77 cents.
"And that would be a thirteen cents drop from what it is before, 4465 in any form is passed, is that correct?"
"Well thats...thats correct, except that I believe last year it was dropped from 90 cents to 87 cents. So this would add an additional 10 cents rather than only 3 cents."
"Well, let's back up a little. At the present time, you're right, we dropped it from, last year we dropped it so that at the present time under the present statute it's 87 cents. Now House Bill 4465 with amendment no. 1 would do what? Drop it to 84 cents?"
"Drop it to 84 cents, right."
"And what you seek to do is drop it from, further to 77 cents?" Bradley M. Glass: Arthur L. Berman:
"That is correct." "How much will this cost the state?" "Well, it's my understanding that ah...ah... for each percentage point of reduction you're talking about roughly a million dollars. So ah...this would be in the neighbor- hood of 14 million dollars, more than the ah...4465 proposes."
"Ah...14 million more? ah...and is that 14 million, that's not...that hasn't been counted for in the Governor's budget message regarding allocations for education, has it?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 115.
"No. This is ah...specific proposal and it has been ah...it is supported by ah...the dual districts generally, and as you know they've formed together in a...in a sort of a consortium, a dual unit equality group, that is seeking at least this much of a reduction as a minimum. And I think it is eminently fair."
"Thank you."
"Gentleman, from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman."
"Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the House, I rise in opposition to this amendment. I've had discussions with these people ah...people interested in dual districts over the last number of months: This is one of the reasons why we included in the school problems commission formular, a reduction of three cents. We included the reduction of a qualifying rate of three cents, which amounted to 6 million dollars in additional aid to these districts, because we felt... we felt that in terms of the funds that were available, new money that was available for all schools, be they unit or be they dual, that on a percentage basis that this was a reasonable step to go. Now I recognize that reasonable people can disagree, but in terms of the dollars that are available, and the areas in which we need this money, or whether its to reasonably fund the retirement system, whether its to pay for mandated programs in special education or mandated programs in transportation and a modest increase in the school formular, this is a reasonable amount of money for this particular group of schools. Now I represent a district which is, legislative district which is CENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 116. practically totally dual district and teach in a dual district as a profession, and gentleman you can rest assured that I feel very strongly that the three cents in terms of the money that's available, is reasonable, or I could not stand here individually and support it. I ask that this ah...amendment be defeated and at the proper time I'm going to ask that the motion lie on the table, that the amendment be tabled."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Meyer."
"Several questions 'to the sponsor."
"He indicates he'll yield."
"Representative, as I understand this is an increase in 14 million dollars that is not included in the Governor's budget?"
"Ah...that would be correct ah...if this money was in fact ah..."
"Pardon me, excuse me, is it an increase of 40 million?"
"14, 14."
"14, excuse me. Ah...is it included in the Governor's budget?"
"Well, I don't believe, as I answered Representa.- tive Berman, that is specifically included. This is not the Governor's and ah...the School Problems commission proposal, Ted."
"Representative Berman didn't support the income tax, and would not support any reduction in any other state expenditures, where do you propose to get the money?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 117.
"Well, I... I am not prepared specifically to tell you where the money is coming from. It may be that it will, if no additional funds are available, that this 14 million is not found anywhere, that it will require an across the board cut back for other districts. This is something we don't know. However, the point of the amendment is to emphasize the fact that for years and years dual districts have been discriminated against. And if you can justify in your mind paying less money for the education of a student simply on the grounds that he happens to be in a unit district rather than a dual district than I suppose you should vote against this amendment. But I can't do that. And I think ah...this is a more significant attempt to bring about the peridee that should exist in the state and ah...the other bills that have been introduced."
"Mr. Speaker, if I may briefly comment on the amendment. This amendment appears to be a bigger fraud than Representative Berman's amendment. At least Superintendent Bikalis had indicated that if all other state agencies would reduce their... their expenditures by 2%, there would be the money available. Representative Glass proposes to spend more money, doesn't even admit to the fact that he knows where to get it."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Duff."
"Mr. Speaker, I think that, speaking from his own broad experience in the area of education, and speaking as a representative of a district which is almost entirely made up of dual school district units ah...the ah...value of this GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 118. amendment is clear. I'm disappointed in fact to hear Representa- tive Hoffman say that he's going to make a motion to table, because there are a great many of us in this general assembly who would like an opportunity to vote on this amendment, whether it goes up or down by such a vote, we do in fact have the opportunity to express to our constituents the fact that we do support their needs, and that we do recognize that they have discriminated against these many years. In fact, I hope that amendment to table is not offered, because I do think that it is important to some of us to have an opportunity to vote on this amendment."
"The ah...gentleman from Lake, Mr. Pierce."
"Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the House, the dual districts are tired of discrimination, now many of us support Chicago schools, and I supported Mr. Berman's amendment but it was the Chicago Senators that killed these dual district bills in the Senate Education Committee. Now if we're supporting their school district they should support ours in reducing the discrimination. This amendment does not eliminate the discrimination against the dual districts, it only in part, lessens the discrimination. It's a good amendment. If Mr. Meyer, my friend Mr. Meyer has a question, I was one of the two democrats outside of cook county that voted for the state income tax. And this bill cost us money, this amendment, and I know where the money is coming from. Representative Giorgi has assured me that the state lottery will provide plenty of money for the dual school districts and to help them out. In GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 119. fact, the state lottery was approved by the Senate Committee yesterday. And the father of our state lottery tells me it will raise one hundred million dollars a year or more and this will only cost us...this will only cost us 13 or 14 million. It doesn't really cost us because its going to the education of the state, to the dual school districts and to allow them some relief on their real estate taxes, especially when we are putting this freeze bill in. I support reduction, only reduction of the inequallity against our dual districts. This is a very find amendment, I compliment the sponsor on presenting it. And even though I did support the Chicago amendment Representativ. Berman's amendment, and will continue to support it, I therefore ask that our friends from the windy city, that our friends from the windy city support the suburbanites in this important amendment that helps DuPage county, Lake county, and dual distric throughout the state of Illinois all over our state."
"Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Juckett."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the House, some questions have been asked, 'where will the money come from?' We have tried to get answers as to where the income tax comes from. And what localities pay what percentage of the income tax. But the revenue department can only tell you how much money they give back to the communities, they never tell you how much more money they take out of the communi- ties. So to my distinquished colleague from Chicago, who asked where's the money coming from, we can't get that answer now, the revenue department just will not give it to us or as they say, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 120. they're sophisticated computors just don't seem to have that answer avilable for us. But I might add that maybe some of this money would be coming from the unit districts, there may nLe any increase in the budget, there may not be any increase in the spending, but even if there were, we come down to a point, I think of discrimination. I've heard some very beautiful cpeeches in this house, which condemn discrimination, but I guess it's a two way street, isn't it? Discrimination is horrible, discrimination is bad unless you're not being discriminated against. And in this particular case, the people I claimed that are paying the vast majority of the income tax, live in the dual districts, and they're paying the frieght for the unit districts, and all we're asking is a little equality, a little less discrimination, and I'm sure that in the hearts of men and women in this general assembly, you wouldn't want to discriminate against those of us who live in dual districts." Hon. W, Robert Blair: "Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Moore"
"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."
"All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. Previous question's been moved. The gentleman from cook, Mr. Glass."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, briefly in closing, I think the ah...major points of this amendment have been well covered. Ah...I know the chief sponsor of the bill ah...is committed to ah...bringing about equality between unit and dual districts and I sincerely believe the funds are not available, to do it this war, I however believe with ah...many of you: GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 121. that we've got to take a stand somewhere on this issue. And that ah...ah...what we are asking for here, an additional 14 million dollars, ah...which ah...could well be allocated among, or found in this state budget, which would approximate 1 quarter of 1 percent of the total state budget. I don't think this is asking alot of equity in educating our children. And I urge your 'aye' vote on this amendment."
"For what purpose does the gentleman from cook, Mr. Hoffman, or DuPage, Mr. Hoffman rise?"
"Mr. Speaker, I would like renew my motion to put this amendment on the table."
"Alright, the gentleman ah...has moved to table. The ah...gentleman from ah..cook, Mr. Glass, desire to be heard ah...on that motion? For what purpose does the gentleman, from cook, Mr. B.B. Wolfe, rise?"
"Ah...I would, in the interest of time, I would respect- fully ask ah...my colleague, Gene Hoffman to withdraw the motion to table, and let this amendment go up or down on its merit."
"It's the difference of taking two votes if you're defeated, and maybe two verified roll calls."
"Alright, the question is on the gentleman's motion to table. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Clerk will take the record. This question there are 41 'aye' and 84 'nays' and the gentleman' motion to table failed. Now we are back to the main motion, which is the gentleman' move for the adoption of amendment no. 4. All those in favor will vote 'aye' GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES and the opposed 'no'. No roll call. All those in favor will say "aye', opposed 'no'. Oh...the 'ayes' have it. The amendment is adopted. Ah...further amendments. Third reading. Third reading, House Bills Third reading. 42..4210. Hold that, wait a minute. 4139."
"House Bill 4139. An act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Environmental Protection Agency. Third reading of the bill."
"Gentleman from ah...cook, ah...Mr. Burditt."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the House, you'll recall this is the annual appropriation for the Environmental Protection Agency. We discussed this at some length yesterday and I went through all of the numbers. Let me just repeat quickly, that the total amount appropriated to the EPA, out of the general revenue fund is, $6,859,900, which after careful consideration as Representative Lechowicz said yesterday by the appropriations committee, is a figure from which the original amount of $7,107,300 was reduced. In addition to that the EPA will get $2,626,500 out of a federal fund. Ah... so much for the numbers. You'll recall also yesterday we had a very extensive discussion on the agencies policies in regard to the ah... hiring of minority groups. And each of you has received on your desk today a memorandum and a statement by Bill Blazer, ah... former member of this house, and now director of the EΕΡΑ. I might call your intention, in case you haven't had a chance to look at it, to the policy statement that a bill put out on August 12, 1971, specifically answering a question GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 123. which came up because a supervisor who refused to interview a job applicant apparently because the applicant was black. And Bill dealt with that matter in the manner in which you would expect him to, he dealt with it forcefully without having the slightest idea that this question might ever be considered on the floor of the House, but he's made a very positive state- ment about the EPA's policies in that regard and certainly that is the policy in which Bill is still apparently carrying out in the agency. Ah...Bill's statement, which is very comprehensive as to the agencies policies is also before you. We considered the matter at great. length yesterday, ah...all of us in the House know Bill personally, and know that certainly his own personal philosophy is such that he is not going to permit any kind of discrimination in that agency. Ah...I'd be glad to answer any questions but I do solicity your support for the appropriation...."
"Any further discussion? Gentleman from ah...macon, Mr. Borchers."
"Oh...Oh...Oh... Mr.Speaker, what about a little bit of order. Just two quick stories to inform you of some of the things that we want to watch, and as a warning to the Envirmonmental Protection Agency, to begin to be realistic and not be so unrealistic and to use a little bit of common sense. Yesterday I mentioned about the 14° below zero matter. Now I'd like to point out to the box in this legislature that these people I defended in Decatur were black. John L. Walker, John H. Walker. I will tell you that ends one story. The second GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 124. story is simple too. The Northwestern Railroad Burned some brush along their rightof way. It crept over into a land fill operated by John L., and John H. Walker..."
"one moment, The gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. J.J. Wolf, what purpose do you rise?"
"Ah...parlaimentary inquiry, Mr. Speaker. What this bill taken out of the record? Or was it on postponed considera- tion, because if it were on postponed consideration I would like to bring up the rule about speaking once on the same subject."
"It was on third reading, and it was taken out of the record, yesterday afternoon. Now, The gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich, what's your point?"
"Mr. Speaker; point of order. Even though it was taken out of the record, and it came to us yesterday, I think the spirit of the rule would be violated if ah... Representative Borchers ah...were given the priviledge to talk on this today. Ah...I'd never would want to interrupt anybody if I felt that they hadn't been given the opportunity to speak on an issue, but I would now move the previous question because I think we did hear enough from Representative Borchers on this issue yesterday." Hon. W. Robert Blair; "Well, in all fairness, the gentleman does have the floor and ah...on the discussion, and he's entitled, even though the matter were up yesterday, it was taken out of the record so it has a new day today, and I think he's entitled to have his time. So will you proceed Mr. Borchers." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Webber Borchers: "Thank you Mr. Speaker, and I think that a little bit of knowledge along certain lines is good for the soul, not only for the legislature but the Environmental Protection Agency leadership. So it just happened that the fire crept under where the rain had washed away, where it had been previously covered, the material that had been deposited, the dirt covering, caught on fire. They were taken to court and fined $2,000 for, which is a matter of record that I have personally looked at, for a burning area under the ground ten feet by ten feet. Now I want you to consider the justice of that kind of ruling. The ground above it, the fire, the fire was so terrible that the ground above it was frozen solid, and they couldn't put any cover, or dig down and put it out till March. Now if that is justice I would like someone from the Environmental Protection Agency to explain it to me. I defended these gentlemen who were black, and I still consider them not rightly or justly treated."
"Alright, does the gentleman care to close? The question is shall this bill pass. All those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Harold Washington."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, members of the House, ah...to briefly explain my vote. I think in light of what transpired on the floor yesterday some clarifying remarks are in order. Ah...as you recall yesterday, or the discussion around this bill yesterday, and specifically relative to the question of ah... the employment practices of the EPA, brought on a rather GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES heated discussion. 126. Ah...but you recall that the discussion was precipitated by some questions relative to the hiring policies of that department. That was the extent of what you might say was the position of the questionaires. It was not in the form of accusation, but questions based on the facts as we had them presented to us. Since that time the Director of this Department has made himself, as well as his top staff available to answer the questions which we posed to him. And as you recall, yesterday Representative Capuzi suggested that the minority employment in state government commission look into this matter. After the discussion, with the director and others, we came to this conclusion, that that committee should sit down and give its good officers to the director and to assist him in overcoming some tremendous recrutement policies which he has admits he has been confronted with. Ah...he conceeded that, we excepted that, we excepted it in good faith, at no point, and I want to emphasize this, at no point was the Director under attack, at no point was the Governor under attack, we were simply posing some very valid questions. We have received tentative answers to those questions, we have suggested that he sit down with the Minority in State Government Committee, he has agreed to do so, and I think based on his attitude, based on his committment to a fair hiring policy, I'm reasonably certain that this committee can help him overcome what appears to be some extremely serious recrutement problems, which exist, not only for his department, but for most departments in the state. So therefore I vote 'aye'. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 127.
"Gentleman from Macon, Representative Borchers."
"Explaining my vote, another short story I believe Chatsworth is in Representative Hunsicker's district, there's a tile company. They've been manufacturing farm tile for many years, out of the pit of their own clay. They received an order to cease and desist, because they were taking the broken tile from their own clay and putting it back, that what which was broken, on this, putting it back in the hole that they had taken the clay out of, and being informed that they had to cover it with dirt. Now it appears that this company was nearly forced out of business. Thank you for those red lights, turn them all on now for a message and then turn them back green except for mine. But nevertheless, I want you to think of the reasonableness, and lack of common sense in ordering a tile company, that transforms clay with 2,300° farenheit, into tile, and then are told to cease and desist by taking the broken tile and put it back in the same hole and you've got to cover it with dirt. It would, I presume, if they'd use their own clay to cover the old tile. Thank you."
"Have all voted who wished? Take the record. Representative Hall, for what purpose do you rise Sir?"
"Record me as voting 'aye'."
"Record Representative Hall as voting'aye'. Gibbs 'aye'. Barry 'aye'. On this question there are 157 'ayes', 4 'nays'. This bill have received a constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. One voting 'no'. House bill second GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES reading, House Bill 4663." 128.
"House Bill 4663. Bill for an act to make an appropriation to the Superintendent of Public Instruction. Second reading of the bill. No committee amendments."
"Are there amendments from the floa? Third reading. Representative McClain, for what purpose do you rise Sir?"
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, I'd like unanimus permission to move Senate Bill 1428 to second reading without being sent to committee. And I have permission from both sides of the aisle."
"Is that the right number?"
"1556."
"Alright, ah...1556ah...gentleman's asking to. There's a request for an explaination. Ah...gentleman has indicated that...."
"The imputous of this bill is provided by a court case: Rothchild vs. Bikalis, ah... dealing with dual districts and all this bill does in essence is set up a Governor's commission on school task force whereby they can study the financial policies of the dual districts up in the Chicago area. There is no appropriation, that's been taken out in the Senate. And its out of Dr. Bikalis's appropriation."
"Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House, in further clarification ah... let me indicate that this refens the problem to the existing ah...Governor's task force. It does not create another commission but refers this problem ah. NERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 129. to the ah...Governor's commission and the section of that commission under the direction of the present Superintendent of Public Instruction. Ah...this bill is ah...came about due to this court case, in an attempt between the two parties, to deal with the question and ah..I would be inclined to go along with ah...moving it along to second reading."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. William Walsh."
"Well I object, Mr. Speaker."
"Alright. The ah...Alright then I gather that the gentleman from Adams ah, Mr. McClain moves to suspend the provisions of... Alright he moves to suspend the provisions of 4la so that the bill can be advanced to the order of second reading without reference to committee. All those in favor will vote ah...'aye', and the opposed 'no'. The gentleman from ah...cook, ah... Mr. William Walsh."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to explain my vote, first of all, the chairman of the house education committee is not here, or not in his seat, and I think its bad for him to call this in his absence. Now in addition to that, I have some information on this bill that before me which leads me to believe that its not all that non controvercial. Ah...the information I have says that according to the bill it is to make state aid formular recommendation. Now this is an objective, it seems to me, of the Governor's task force that was appointed recently, also of the school problems commission, and ah..we've had recomm- endations even up to considering today, made by the office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction. Now furthermore, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 130. ah...it seems to me, and it seems to my informant that the department of school district organization ah...could make the recommendations that this committee proposes to make. Now I suggest to you that ah...we're doing something here that is totally unecessary in the first place, my honest opinion is that the bill is unecessary and thats probably the best thing that can be said for it, but in addition to that we're going to be here next week, there are other bills that are before the House Education Committee unless this begins a series of motions, with respect to Senate bills referred to the House Education Committee, but ah.. apparently we've got several bills that have come over from the Senate and referred to our committee, we will meet, we will be able to consider this, and I have, as a member of that committee, many questions that I would like to ask the proponants of this bill in order to satisfy myself that it is something that is necessary. Now I'll conclude, Mr. Speaker, by pointing out that there is no demonstrable emergency in this case and that the gentleman should not have that the rule that he sought to suspend ah... is inapplicable for that reason. And I suggest to you that you vote no."
"Have all voted who wished? The clerk will take the record. On this question there are 94 'ayes', and 22 'nays', and the rule 41 a is suspended ah...so that this bill, having been read the first time may be advanced to the order of second reading without having been referred to committee. On the ah... Earlier today we read on the order GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 131. of Senate Bills first reading. Senate Bill 1389 on which the... is now on the Speakers table having not been referred to committee, the chair recognizes the gentleman from Vermillion, Mr. Craig."
"Mr. Speaker, I talked to leadership on both sides of the aisle, as well as the chairman of Motor Vehicles and Senate Bill 1389 is the same bill as House Bill 4177, which was passed out of the house. And I'd like to advance this bill to second reading without reference. They're, its an identical bill to 1389,"
"Alright, is there objection? Hearing none then that bill will be placed on the order of second reading. 1389. Now the gentleman from ah... Livingston, Mr. Hunsicker ah...has a similar request with regard to...."
"Mr. Speaker, I've cleared this with leaderships of both sides of the aisle, I'd like unanimus consent to advance House Bill 1509, Senate Bill rather 1509 to order of second reading without reference."
"Alright, does the gentleman have leave? Hearing no objection, that bill will be advanced to the order of second reading without reference to committee. Alright, the gentleman from Grundy, Mr. Washburn, ah...is recognized."
"Ah...thank you Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentleman of the House, Representative O'Brien was called from the floor due to the few remaining days in...of this session he asks that I move that ah... House Bill 3763 be advanced to the order of second reading of House Bills. It now appears on first legislative day second reading. Its a creek.bill GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ; 132. attempting to correct a flood condition in the villiage of Rockdale. It has been heard by the appropriations committee and amended there and if I remember correctly received the unanimous vote in that committee. So I move for the suspension of rule 47 for the advancement of House Bill 3763, the order of second reading."
"Alright, does the gentleman have leave? Hearing no objection then, House Bill 3763 is on the order of House Bill second reading and the clerk will now read it a second time."
"House Bill 3763, bill for an act to make an appropriation for Flood control in Will county. Second reading of the bill. One committee amendment. Amend House Bill 3763 on page 1, line 2 by deleting public works and buildings and support."
"Ah...any amendments? Gentleman from Grundy ah... Mr. Washburn."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, I move for the adoption of committee amendment no. 1 to House Bill 3763 which merely deletes the words department of public works and buildings and inserts department of transportation."
"Alright, is there discussion? All those in favor of the adoption of the amendment say 'aye', opposed 'no'. the 'ayes' have it, the amendment is adopted. Further Amendments? Third reading. Alright on Senate Bills first reading appears Senate Bill 1581 on which the chair recognizes the gentleman from Vermillion, Alright, read the bill first time.' GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 133.
"Senate Bill 1581. An act appropriating funds for the Department of Transportation. First reading of the bill."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Regner."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the House, I'd like to have leave to suspend rule #17 so we can hear two more bills in appropriations committee tomorrow morning. Ah...those are Senate Bill 1465, and Senate Bill 1581, which is the one you just read."
"Alright, I refer that to appropriations, does the gentlemen have leave to have 17 so that he may have it heard in appropriations tomorrow. Hearing no objection leave will be granted for that purpose. Gentleman from Cook, Mr. McAvoy."
"Mr. Speaker, and members of the House, I ask unanimous consent to suspend rule 17 a for the purpose of hearing Senate Bill 1459 and Senate Bill 1505 in committee immediately after adjournment today, in room 520."
"Alright, does the gentleman have leave to suspend the rule so that he may hold his meeting. Hearing no objection that will be done. Now ah..back on....Alright, committee reports."
"Mr. Juckett from executive which House Joint Resolution 142 was referred reports the same back for the recommendation that the same resolution be adopted. Mr. Juckett from executive from which ah... House Resolution 141 was referred reported the same back ir amendments thereto, with the recomm- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 134. endation that the amendments be adopted and that the resolution, as amended, be adopted. Mr. Juckett, from executive to which House Joint Resolution 143 was referred, reported the same back with the recommendation that the resolution be adopted. Mr. Randolph, from Revenue, to which Senate Bill 1353 was referred reported the same back with the recommendation that the bill do pass. Mr. Regner, from the Committee on Appropriations, to which Senate Bills 1320, 1329, 1369, 1566 were referred, reported the same back with amendments thereto, with the recommend. ation that the amendments be adopted and that the bills, as amended, do pass. No further committee reports."
"Alright, ah... House Bills third reading. 4295, on which the chair recognizes the gentleman from cook, Mr. Mann, he wants to bring that back to second reading. Does he have leave? No objection, he offers or moves the adoption of the amendment. The clerk will read."
"Amendment no. 1, Mann, Amend House Bill 4295 on page 1 by deleting lines 2 and 3 and soforth."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Mann."
"Ah...yea, Mr. Speaker, thank you. Ah...this is an amendment by agreement with ah...leadership on both sides of the aisle. It...there are four circuit breaker bills and we're amending them all in the same way: And ah...I would urge that this amendment be approved."
"Is there....ah...questions on the adoption of the amendment? Alright ah.... Alright? All those in favor of the adoption of the amendment say 'aye'. Opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The amendment is adopted. Are there further GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 135. amendments? Third reading. Alright, on third reading is 4674, on which the gentleman from Bureau, Mr. Barry, asked leave to have it brought back to second reading for purpose of amendment. Is there any objection? Hearing none, then take it back to second. Read the amendment."
"Amendment no. 3, Barry, amend House Bill 4674 on page 25, line 12 by striking 9."
"Gentleman from Bureau, Mr. Barry."
"Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House, this is a techinical amendment. There is a substantial error in reciting a number that should not have been recited. We just want to ammend a part of the State Finance Act, rather than repealing section 9. And I move for the adoption of the amendment."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Simmons."
"In that same line there are also 9a, 9-1 and also there's another section 9 in the bill. Ah...I wonder is that 9á, is that still going to stay in the law?"
"Yes that does stay in. That's the reason for the correction."
"Any further discussion? Question is on the adoption of the amendment. All those in favor say 'aye' Opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The amendment is adopted. Are there further amendments? Third reading. On senate bills second reading appears Senate Bill 1363."
"Senate Bill 1363. An act in relation to payment of grants to enable the elderly and the disabled to equire GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 136. retained private housing. Second reading of the bill. No committee amendments."
"Are there any amendments from the floor?
"Amendment no. 1, Hyde."
"Gentleman from cook, or read it, yea."
"Ah...thank you Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House. Senate bill 1363 is the circuit breaker bill ah...this amendment will put this bill ah...in the identical shape that Representative Mann's bill ah...has just been put in. Ah...and it is really an agreed amendment by all of the four sponsors of the four bills, ah...covering this subject. I provides a $500 maximum grant, a $10,000 income ceiling, Ah...6% on the first $3,000 of income and 7% on the next $7,000. A total cost of $30.2 million, it includes disabled people as well as senior citizens. And ah...it is...its the Governor's proposed amendment and ah...exceptable to all these sponsors. I move adoption of amendment no. 1 to Senate Bill 1363."
"Alright, discussion? gentleman's question is on the adoption. All those in favor say 'aye'. Opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the amendment is adopted. Third reading. Senate Bill 1508."
"Senate Bill 1508. An act in relation to payment of grants to enable the elderly to acquire and retain private housing. Second reading of the bill. One committee amendment. Amoung Senate Bill 1508 on page 12, by striking lines 20 through 24." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 137.
"Gentleman from ah...cook, Mr. Mann."
"Ah...Mr. Speaker and members of the House, believe it or not this is another one of the agreed circuit breaker bills on which the leadership has agreed and I move to table ah...committee amendment no. 1 to bring it into conformance with the other three bills."
"Alright, he offers to move the adoption of the amendment and then moves to table. Does he have leave? Hearing no objection, leave is granted. Its tabled."
"Amendment No. 2 Mann, amend Senate Bill 1508 on page 1, by deleting lines 2 and 3 and soforth."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Mann."
"Ah...this amendment will bring it into conformance with Representative Hyde's bill, as he recited the amendment. And I urge that you ah...adopt it. I move it's adoption."
"Alright, any discussion? All those in favor of the adoption of the amendment say 'aye'. Opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, the amendment is adopted. Further amendments? Third reading, One bill on second ah...bills house reading ah... 4685."
"House Bill 4685. Bill for an act to make an appropriation for additional increased salaries for State's Attorneys and Assistant State's Attorneys. Second reading of the bill. No Committee amendments."
"Any amendments from the floor? Third reading. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Shea."
"Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 138. House Bill 3768, and House Bill 4576 were assigned to cities and villages and they were assigned to a subcommittee. These two bills create the Illinois Municipal financing agency and permit ah...municipalities to sell bonds to this agency and let the agency sell up to $300,000,000 worth of state bonds to purchase the bonds of local municipalities. Ah...I'd like leave of the House to move these bills from citics and villages and put them on the order of second reading. I think we've got some amendments that can make them palitable to all ah.. all the people involved."
"Gentleman from Boone, Mr. Cunningham."
"Well, Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentleman of the House, I arise to oppose his motion. This ah...these two bills were sent to my committee and ah...I know that we've had a hearing on it, and Representative Bluthardt heads up the as chairman of the subcommittee. Now this committee is not sitting on there you know whats. hats. This is going to be a working sub-committée. And I at this time, hope that the membership will stay with us and let us work out, and add the amendments put into this, on the bills that are necessary in the committee. And I'd like to have Representative Bluthardt explain to the membership, what has been done in the committee. We've had one hearing and there's so many people, I might add, and their mail, and I have given my word, and sometimes I like to stand by my word, that there would not be any more hearings until it was posted. So at this time I'd like to ask Representative Bluthardt to explain to the membership what has taken place GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 139. in the first meeting."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Bluthardt."
"Mr. Speaker, and members of the House, Ah...in speaking in opposition to the motion I'd like to point out that some months ago this was referred to a working sub committee that I chair and that committee consisted of Fred Tuerk and Horace Calvo. We did hold hearings, we heard from many witnesses, we reported to the vote committee at a later date and the recommendation at that time was that it remain in subcommittee for further action. Not only was that a recommendation, that was by agreement, Mr. Speaker. I did not know of the effort to move this out of committee until, perhaps, a half hour ago. I think that we're dealing with... I think that we're dealing with a ah...an idea with a proposal to create a state agency for the sale of municipal bonds that may well effect the general good and fine credit rating of the State of Illinois. The double A credit rating that we have, which is something we ought to be proud of and something we ought to strive to keep. It may well be that if we do adopt such an agency as now proposed by These bills, that we may effect adversly that credit rating. I think there are so many questions ah...to be answered and so many provisions of the proposal to be probed and there have been so many people that have asked us to hold further hearings, that it would be really disgraceful on the part of this House, to move it ahead now without giving those people an opportunity, a further oppor tunity to work on this bill. Therefore I would ask that you GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES oppose the motion."
"Gentleman from cook, Mr. Hyde."
"Well Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House I take a somewhat different view than my distinguished colleague Mr. Bluthardt, although I think I should point out there certainly is no party position on these bilis at all. I do think, However, we could take the bills out of committee and put them on second with the understanding that amendments will be offered and proposed and ah...unless something can be worked out of an acceptable nature ah...to those gentleman who have expressed their very strong opposition, then the bills not be moved. with that understanding I certainly ah...would support the motion to take them out of committee and get them on second. These people will have an opportunity to be heard and get their input into this problem before the bills are passed, so I would not oppose the motion of Mr. Shea to ah...advance these to the order of second reading, with that understanding."
But Hon. W. Robert Blair: "Alright. Alright, this requires 89 votes. All those in favor will vote 'aye'. the Opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Laurino 'aye'. Borchers 'aye'. Have all voted who wished? Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 108 'aye's'. 35 'nays'. And the gentleman's ah...motion ah...to discharge these two bills prevails. And they are placed on the order of second reading. Now the gentleman from cook, Mr. Berman....Gentleman from cook, Mr. Shea."
"That would be second reading, first or second legislative day. Would it not?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 141.
"Second reading, which is not second reading first, its second reading. They come out on second reading, not second and first day. That's what you want, that's where it is. Second day."
"Second day, thank you Mr. Speaker."
"Mr. Berman."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker. I'd ask unanimous consent to waive rule 17a ah...to allow to waive the posting requirements regarded two Senate Bills that have been assigned to the Education Committee. Senate Bill 1430 and 1548. This is to allow these bills to be heard in committee next monday after adjournment. I've gotten consent of the ah...other side of the aisle and the ah...vice Chairman of the committee. Ah... to waive the posting rule. I think we're one day short on the requirement."
"Alright the chairman of ah.....has the chairman agreed to do?"
"The vice chairman, the chairman wasn't here, sir."
"Oh...Alright, the vice chairman agreed so the gentleman has leave to waive the posting rule 17 so those can be heard in committee. Hearing no objection that request will be granted. Chairman of Appropriations, what time are you going to meet tomorrow?"
"Appropriations committee will meet at 9:00 tomorrow morning on the floor of the house."
"Ah...gentleman from cook, Mr. Hyde." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS USE OF REPRESENTATIVES 142. Henry J. Hyde: Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentleman of the House, I now move this house stand adjourned until the hour of 11:30 a.m. tomorrow morning."
"All those in favor say 'aye'. Opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The motion carries. We'll be here at 11:30 tomorrow morning. Appropriations at 9:00 on the House floor Pction at nine at 2:12." ADJOURNMENT AT 6:36 O'CLOCK P.M. 6/14/72 mdw GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES