Illinois House Floor Debate — June 13, 1972

"All who are not entitled to this House Chamber, will you please retire to the Gallery? Thank you."

"The Doorkeeper will see that those per- sons not entitled to the floor will be removed therefrom. The invocation this morning will be by Dr. Johnson."

"We pray. Almighty Lord of heaven and earth, we thank you first of all for permitting us to bring our requests before you. Give us the knowledge we ask now to lead our lives well. Help us to know our ignorance that we may be teachable. Help us to know our weaknesses that we may be on guard against temptation. Help us to know our strengths that we may use fully all of those gift and talents which you have given us. Help us to know you as the Creator and the Preserver of all things, that we may work here to do your will on earth. Help us to know your mercy so that we may show mercy to all with whom we come in contact. Help us to know your love that we may be moved to demonstrate kind- ness in all we undertake. We pray for such knowledge and strength, this day and this week, because we confess you to be the source of every good and perfect gift. Amen."

"Roll Call for attendance. Messages from the Senate."

"A Message from the Senate by Mr. Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker - I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has refused to recede from their Amendments to a Bill of the following title: House Bill 3682. I am further directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate requests a Committee of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Conference to consist of five Members from each House' to consider the differences of the two Houses. Action taken by the Senate, June 7, 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Ah.. Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform the House of Repre- sentatives that the Senate has refused to recede from their Amendments to a Bill of the following title: House Bill 3544. And, I am further directed to inform the House of Representa- tives that the Senate requests a Committee of Conference. Ah.. action taken by the Senate, June 7, 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has refused to recede from their Amendments to a Bill of the following title: House Bill 3190. And, I am further directed to in- form the House of Representatives that the Senate requests a Committee of Conference. Action taken by the Senate, June 7, 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has refused to recede from their Amendments to a Bill of the following title: House Bill 2416. And, I am further directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate requests a Committee of Conference. Action taken by the Senate, June 7, 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has refused to recede from their Amendments to a Bill of the following title: House Bill 2916. And, I am further directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate requests a Committee of Conference. Action CENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  taken by the Senate, June 7, 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secre- tary. A Messages from the Senate by Mr. Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Repre- sentatives that the Senate has concurred with the House in the adoption of the following Joint Resolution: House Joint Resolution 140. Together with the following Amendment there- to in the adoption of which I am instructed to ask concurrence of the House. Concurred in by the Senate, as amended, June 8, 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has passed Bills of the following title in the passage of which I am instructed to ask concurrence of the House: Senate Bills 1430, ah.. Senate Bill 1430, 1433, 1511, 1535, 1542, 1581. Passed the Senate, June 8, 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Ah.. Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has passed Bills of the following title in the passage of which I am instructed to ask concurrence of the House: Senate Bill 1319, 1326, 1372, 1389,-1509, 1548, 1555, 1556. Passed by the Senate, June 8, 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Ah..."

"Committee Reports.".

"Ah.. Mr. Regner, from the Committee on Appropriations, to which Senate Bills 1325, 1360, 1463 and 1552 were referred, reported the same back with the recommenda- tion that the Bills do pass. Mr. Regner, from Appropriations, to whcih Senate Bills 970, 1327 and 1562 were referred, re- ported the same back with Amendments thereto, with the recom- mendation that the Amendments be adopted and that the Bills, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  5. as amended, do pass. Mr. Regner, from the Committee on Appropriations, to which House Bill 3763 was referred, re- ported the same back with Amendments thereto, with the recommendation that the Amendments be adopted and that the Bill, as amended, do pass."

"House Bills Second Reading. House Bill 4102."

"House Bill 4102, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Depart- ment of Public Health. Second Reading of the Bill. Two Committee Amendments. Committee Amendment No. 1, amend House Bill 4102 on Page 1, Line 14, by deleting '992,100' and in- serting in lieu thereof '967,100'; andsoforth."

"The gentleman from ah.. Lee, Mr. Shapiro."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is an Agreed Amendment which reduces the appropriation by $107,500. And ah.., I would ah.. urge the approval of the House for Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 4102."

"Any further discussion? The question is on the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 1. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Ah.. Committee Amendment No. 2, amend House Bill 4102 on Page 4, Line 3, by striking '1,323,000' and in- serting in lieu thereof: '3,000,000'."

"The ah.. gentleman from ah.. Lee, Mr. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Shapiro."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Amendment was not offered ah.. by Myself. Ah.. I am opposed, actually, to the Amendment ah.. more even though it does increase grants to local health departments. I feel that the integrity of the Bill ah.. does have to be maintained."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Lechowicz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this was ah... this Amendment increasing the grants ah.. for various Counties from one million and three to three million dollars was adopted in the House Appropria- tions Committee after complete justification for the Amend- ment was given by Representative Hart to the Appropriations Committee. This is his ah.. Amendment to the Bill. And, it was carried, I think, by fifteen... sixteen to nine, if my memory serves me correctly. And, I move for the adoption of Amendment No. 2, to this Bill."

"Further discussion? The gentleman from Franklin, ah.. Mr. Hart."

"Ah.. yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. this Amendment is a very important Amendment to ah.. to the Members here. And, I wish.... ah.. we could pay a little bit of attention to it. I think, most of you have a letter on your desk this morning from the Public Health and you've probably been contacted by Public Health Officials in your various Districts. But ah.., over the last few GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  years, the amount of local grants for Public Health..., I mean, grants to the Local Public Health Units has decreased, And, really ah.., in many instances, the ah.. grants to the Local Public Health Departments are where the people get most of their services. This Amendment ah.. ah.. was adopted in the Appropriations Committee. It would ah.. increase the amount of grant to Local Public Health Units ah.. up to three million dollars. It would ah.. more than double it. At the present time, the level is ah.. less than $.11 per capita. I think, that this Amendment should be adopted. It has much support. And, I know that it would... it would ah.. be ah.. well thought in your Districts if you would accept this increase ah.. for Public... Local Public Health Grants. And, I would appreciate the support of the House in the adoption of this Amendment."

"The ah.. gentleman from Cook, Mr. Col- lins."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. this Amendment is truly unique. Ah.. this is the first time I've seen an Amendment offered to an Appro- priation Bill where the Department says they not only don't want it, but they don't need it. I don't see any justification for putting any money into ah.. into this budget when the Director of the Department and his Assistants ah.. ah.. sat before us, tond us they didn't want it, didn't know how they would administer it and truly did not need it. I think, that ah.. we're really overstepping our bounds now when we, not GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  8. only are restoring cuts in a budget, but here we're going beyond the budget in saying that you have to take money that you don't need and don't want. Ah.. I urge the ah.. defeat of this Amendment."

"The ah.. gentleman from ah.. ah.. Cook, Mr. Kosinski."

"Mr. Speaker and Gentlemen... Ladies and Gentle- men of the House, this seems somewhat redundant in that we went through this in Appropriations Committee. And, this Amendment did pass out, For clarification to the people of this Assembly who are not part of that Appropriations Commit- tee, let me indicate that Public Health, on a local level, on a County level, has been subsidized in the past through the individual Counties. With these Counties being squeezed by increased costs, Public Health on a local level is suffer- ing. The Appropriations Committee has been successful in. pulling millions and millions of dollars out of.. out of appropriations in this last year. It's project has been one of austerity. Yet, in this instance, this unique situation of adding to a budget is absolutely essential for Public Health at a local level. While ah.. P.W. indicated that the Director was not in a position to accept this increase, the reason is obvious. He's contented to conform with the Bureau of the Budget's recommendation. However, we people, who come from Counties that are suffering, know how important Public Health is at that level, how essential it is to give the public this service. This is a most imperative, I repeat, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  a most imperative addition to this Bill. It will help all of us, the poor Counties, especially. I encourage your vote for this Amendment."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Regner."

"Just in ah.. response to the last speaker, this Amendment did get adopted in Appropriations Committee. But, for the information of the Members of the General Assembly, it was not ah.. by unanimous vote. I forget the ah.. exact total. But ah.., there were a few votes ah.. difference that did pass it out but it was not a unanimous vote. It was not an Agreed Amendment with the Department. And ah.., as Representative Collins stated, the ah.. Department was in opposition to this Amendment. And, I would urge a 'no' vote on it."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. B. B. Wolfe."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in support of this Amendment as it is a State commitment to reimburse Local Units of Government in the areas of Public Health. And, I think, the Amendment reflects what the House has already done in this area by ah.. sending two Bills ah.. ah.. to the Senate ah.. which ah.. Bills have not been acted on by the Senate. And, I'm sure that ah.. ah.. this Amendment will ah.. replace the ah.. lost income which ah.. was voted out of this House ah.. previously."

"The ah.. gentleman from Cook, Mr. Richard Carter."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  10. the House, I rise in support of this ah.. Amendment. We.. We.. We discussed this ah.. addition pro and con and ah.. we.. we went to great lengths to find out we had ah.. some excel- lent testimony E. E. Dimmons who indicated that these monies were very very necessary to this program. And, after a long long debate, we decided that this Amendment was a very neces- sary one. And, while it was not unanimous, it was decided, on a majority vote, that this addition should be made. So, I feel that, at this time, we ah.. we should ah.. have a vote on it and ah.. ah.. settle this question once and for all."

"The gentleman from Boone, Mr. Cunning- ham."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the previous question has been moved. The gentleman from Franklin, Mr. Hart, ah.. to close."

"Ah.. very briefly, to close, Mr. Speaker. Ah.., I think, the Body here has been misinformed when it stated that the Director opposed this Amendment. The Director did not support it because, I believe, he has a moral obligation to support his budget as it comes out of the Budget Committee. But, there isn't any doubt ah.. from his testimony and from ah.. evidence and from what we all know that ah.. he would be able to use some more money, at the local level, for Public Health. Now, the only alternative to ah.. increase it at the local level for Public Health is an increase in local taxes. And, I know that we all oppose that. So, it's ah.. the bur- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  den of the State, I think, to come in and upgrade and imple- ment the programs that are held on a local level. I again say, this Amendment is very important in every District in the State. And, I know that it has much support throughout the State of Illinois. And, I would ask for your support. And, I would like to have a Roll Call vote, Mr. Speaker."

"Alright.. The question is on the adoption of Amendment No. 2. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 91 'Ayes' and 31 'Nays' and the Amendment ah.. is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 3, Lechowicz, amend House Bill 41...."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Lechowicz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentle- men of the House, Amendment No. 3 is an Amendment that was offered in Committee. And, the vote was twelve to twelve in the Appropriations Committee. What it does is appropriate a million and a half dollars, one million, five hundred thousand dollars to ah.. Public Health for the Chicago Municipal Tuberculosis Sanitarium. This House, in its wisdom in 1971, passed a Bill for this amount of money. It was Representative B. B. Wolfe's Bill for the Tuberculosis Sani- tarium. When it went into the Senate, they said that this money should be in Public Health. This is exactly what this Amendment does. And, I move for its adoption." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Hon. W. Robert Blair: "Discussion? The gentleman from Lee, Mr. Shapiro."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in opposition ah.. to this Amendment. This is an Amendment that was defeated in the House Committee. And, the Department ah.. of Public Health opposed the Amendment. Now, the Department stated, at the time and in subsequent conversations concerning this Amendment, that at no time during the year has the Department been made aware of the need of any additional funds for the Municipal Tuberculosis Sanitarium of Chicago. Not only is the incidence of tubercu- losis decreasing, but new methods of treatment and out-patient care have substantially reduced the stay of patients at this particular sanitarium. Now, if you will recall, in the past the Chicago State Tuberculosis Sanitarium, which was by far a more modern Institution with a much better and highly sophisticated staff, is no longer taking care of tuberculosis patients. At one time, Chicago State offered to take over all of the tuberculosis patients of the Chicago Municipal Sand and this was turned down by the City of Chicago. It must be assumed, therefore, that the Municipal TB Sand has sufficient funds to be able to take care of themselves. Fur+ ther more, I think, if you'll recall, as recently as May 29th, 1970, House Bill 3699 was passed which allowed the Chicago TB Sand to increase its levy for tuberculosis from seven and a half to nine million dollars. As I see it, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, there is no need for this GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  13. Amendment. I is obvious that they should have sufficient funds to see themselves through the year. And, I would urge everyone to vote against the adoption of this Amendment."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive B. B. Wolfe."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in ah.. support of this Amendment. And, would like to tell the House that we passed, in this House, two years ago, two Bills, one to provide the increased levy within the ah. City of Chicago to the extent of a million and a half dollars. At that time, there was in little of excess three million dollar deficit. We also passed the State Support Bill because, under our State Statutes, we're required to reimburse for deficiencies. This has not been done for the last five or six years. And, traditionally, this House has, in every Session except for the last three, supported the deficiency measure. Now, what happened was that, although the peg levy was passed, the other Bill was tabled or defeated in the Senate so that we had an increase in taxes to provide some of the funds which are required in the operation of the Municipal Tuberculosis Sanitarium. Now, with respect to the need, at the present time, the Sani- tarium is in excess of over two million dollars ah.. deficiency, two million, two hundred thousand... two hundred and nine thousand dollars. Ah.. the hundred and fifty ah... The one million, five hundred thousand dollars, provided by this Amendment, will not even cover the present deficiency. Now, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  the ah.. Sanitarium is presently operating with more than thirty thousand out-patients every year. So, the need is still present. Now, I have letters from the ah.. Municipal Tuberculosis ah.. Organization in ah.. Cook, County ah.. sup- porting the ah.. the thrust of this measure. The ah.. Insti- tution ah.. presently ah.. has approximately seven to eight thousand in-patients a year. So, by no means, have we ah.. cured the problem but we are still treating this dread di- sease on a more scientific basis and on a basis in the Chicago Municipal Tuberculosis Sanitarium of the most minimum cost in the Country for operating this kind of a Institution or any Hospital Institution. Now, I think, that with the ah.. ah.. merit ah.. of the situation and the fact that we did ah.. pass the ah.. Peg Levy Bill, that we ought to meet the commit- ments of this State with reference to ah.. deficiencies. And, that every Member of this House ought to support ah.. this Amendment because the Cook... the Sanitarium is servicing the Area of Cook... of Chicago and of Cook County ah.. in the manner of.. of medical care."

"Is there further discussion? Does the gentleman wish to close the debate? The gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the last Amendment, that we just adopted, as I said earlier and as other speakers stated, was needless and was rejected by the Department. And, this one is even more ridiculous, not only to the Department state that they didn't GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  15. want it, but this House ah... this Legislature took this very item out two years ago and allowed Chicago to raise their levy to support. ah.. this Institution. Furthermore, Chicago wasn't even interested enough in this ah.. Amendment to send a representative for the Appropriations Committee asking for this money. I don't know who thought this up, but it wasn't Chicago and it wasn't the Department. Again, we're saying, here's money you don't need and don't want. I think it's ridiculous that we should ah.. add to Appropriation Bills in such a hazard manner. And, I again, would urge the ah.. the defeat of this Amendment."

"Is there further discussion? If not, The gentleman from Cook, Representative Moore, wish to close?"

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The previous question has been moved. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no' the 'ayes' have it and the gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Lechowicz, to close the debate."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentle- men of the House, in regards to the last speaker, he's com- pletely in error because the Municipal Tuberculosis Sanitarium provided the necessary justification for this expenditure. Dr. Yoder, in the Committee, stated that no one contacted him. I told him this was a fiscal obligation from fiscal year 1971. I gave him a copy of the letter, at that time, which was sent to the Department. And, in turn, I gave him a copy of the letter that substantiated these costs to me to- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  16. day. Not only did I give it to Dr. Yoder, I also gave it to the Chief Sponsor of the Bill in complete courtesy. But, basically, this is ah.. a one million, five hundred thousand dollar deficit in the Chicago Municipal Tuberculosis Sani- tarium resulted because the State discontinued the fiscal 1971 the line item appropriations for the... for these reasons. I hope that this House adopts this Amendment to this Bill."

"The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 3, to House Bill 4102 be adopted?'. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye'. Does the gentleman wish a Roll Call? All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there are 76 'Ayes', 59 'Nays' and Amend- ment No. 3, to House Bill 4102 was adopted. Are there fur- ther Amendments? Third Reading. House Bill 4133."

"House Bill 4133, a Bill for an Act to author- ize the Director of the Department of Transportation to make a feasibility study and report with respect to locations of the construction of bridges across the Mississippi River. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. House Bill 4295."

"House Bill 4295, a Bill for an Act in rela- tion to the payment of grants to enable the elderly to acquire and retain private housing and make an appropriation in connec- tion therewith. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  17.

"Are there Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. Representative Mann, do you seek recogni.... Third Reading. House Bill 4478."

"House Bill 4478, a Bill for an Act to amend and resection Section 3 and to amend Section 13 of and to add Section 7.1 to 'The Illinois Industrial Development Authority Act'. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. House Bill 4606."

"House Bill 4606, a Bill for an Act to authorize the Department of Transportation to construct channel and other improvements in and along Fox River in South Elgin. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there Amendments from the floor? Third Reading.. House Bill 4636."

"House Bill 4636, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Commission created by an Act to create a Commission to survey and study problems pertaining to water- ways, drainage, fluid, andsoforth. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. House Bill 4661."

"House Bill 4661, a Bill for an Act to amend Section 6 of the 'Illinois Horse Racing Act'. Second Reading GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  18. of the Bill. One Committee Amendment. Ah.. amend House Bill 4661 by adding after Line 4, on Page 6, the following: 'Section 3. This Act takes effect July 1, 1972'."

"The gentleman from Kane, Representa- tive Waddell."

"Move adoption of the Amendment."

"Is there any discussion? If not, the gentleman offers to move the adoption of Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 4661. All in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? House Bill 4667."

"House Bill 4667, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to the Secretary of State. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. House Bill 4668."

"House Bill 4668, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to the State Scholarship Commission. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. House Bill 4676."

"House Bill 4676, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Joint Legislative Commission on Economic Advisors. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. Senate Bills First Reading. Senate Bill 1331." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  19.

"Senate Bill 1331, an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the State Employees Retirement System. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1394."

"Senate Bill 1394, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the construction of a State Library Building. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1397."

"Senate Bill 1397, appropriation for the expenses of the Secretary of State. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1400."

"1400, a Bill for an Act to make an appro- priation to the Secretary of State. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1401."

"1401, a Bill for an Act to make an appro- priation to the Secretary of State. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1418."

"1418, a Bill for an Act to make an appro- priation... deficiency appropriation for the Election Laws Commission. First Reading of the Bill,"

"Senate Bill 1425."

"Senate Bill 1425, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the expenses of the Department of Revenue. First Reading of the Bill." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  20.

"Senate Bill 1459."

"Senate Bill 1459, an Act concerning the powers of Corporations authorized to accept and execute trusts, andsoforth. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1465."

"Senate Bill 1465, a Bill for an Act to amend the 'Civil Administrative Code'. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1505."

"Senate Bill 1505, a Bill for an Act to amend a Section of the 'Uniform Commercial Code'. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1571."

"Senate Bill 1571, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act requiring hospitals to render emergency service. Ah.. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1576."

"Senate Bill 1576, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation relating to the 'Strip Mine Acquisition Act'. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1583."

"1583, an appropriation to the Department of Revenue. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1589."

"1589, a Bill for an Act to amend the 'Civil Administrative Code'. First Reading of the Bill."

"Take it out of the record. Repre- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  -21. sentative Shea, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Did you read Senate Bill 1589?"

"I understand that the Sponsor wanted it held so we'll take it out of the record."

"Alright.."

"Senate Bill 1596."

"Senate Bill 1596, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the expenses of the Judicial Advisory Council. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1597."

"Senate Bill 1597, an appropriation to the Department of Business and Economic Development. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1603."

"Senate Bill 1603, an appropriation to the Agri... Agricultural Commodity Marketing Study Commission. First Reading of the Bill."

"Senate Bill 1587."

"Senate Bill 1587, an appropriation for the expenses of the Legislative Advisory Committee on Public Assistance. First Reading of the Bill."

"On the order of House Bills Third Reading, appears House Bill 4129. Ah.. the Sponsor indicates that he wishes to have House Bill 4129 returned to the order of Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment. Does the gentleman have leave? Hearing no objection, House bill 4129 will be put on the order of Second Reading for the pur- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  poses of an Amendment. The Clerk will read the Amendment, please.

"Ah.. Amendment No. 2, Burditt, amend House Bill 4129, as amended, by House Amendment No. 1 by deleting the last two Lines of Section 1 and inserting in lieu there- of the following: 'For Court Reporting Costs - $373,800. Total - $952,300'."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Burditt."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. the Senate has reduced the appropriation for the Pollution Control Board Emergency ah.. Deficiency Appropria- tion by $25,000 because they've taken so long to get this Bill through that the Pollution Control Board is not going to expend that $25,000 during the current biennium. However, they are still going to have to have the hearings ah.. that were intended to be paid for by that $25,000. So, all this Amendment does is add the $25,000 into the regular appropria- tion for next year for the Pollution Control Board. The total amount of money, therefore, for the deficiency appro- priation and for the ah.. appropriation for next year remains the same. The ah.. Representative Lechowicz and Representa- tive Regner have both agreed that I move the Amendment. And I move its adoption."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 2, to House Bill 4129. All in favor of the adoption signify by GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. 23. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. On the order of Constitutional Amendments - First Reading, appears Senate Join Resolution 62."

"Senate Joint Resolution Number 62 Consti- tutional Amendment. First Reading."

"Second Reading. House Bills Second Reading. House Bill 4663."

"House Bill 4663, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to the Superintendent of Public Instruction. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Wait... Wait... Let's.. Let's take it out of the record, would you, Mr. Clerk, please? Repre- sentative Hanahan, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"I just looked up at the Calendar, Mr. Speaker, and or up at the Board there and you had 62, House Bill 62 on Second Reading. What was that?".

"That was Senate Joint Resolution 62."

"62,"

"We read it a First Time and it went to the order of Second."

"And now, it's going to the order of Second Reading? When will it be heard on Second Reading, Mr. Speaker?"

"I.. I assume when the Speaker calls it and the Sponsor requests it, Representative Hanahan." T. J. H "Well, does it take the normal course of three GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  24. Legislative Days so tomorrow it would be on Second Reading?"

"On the Calendar. It could be called a Second Time. Yes, Sir."

"Today or tomorrow, Sir?"

"Tomorrow. Tomorrow on Second Reading."

"Thank you. I have an Amendment to offer on it and I just want to make sure they're aware of it. House Bills Third Reading. House Bill 4083."

"House Bill 4083, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Depart- ment of Aeronautics. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Let's take that out of the record, Mr. Clerk. House Bill 4244."

"House Bill 4244, a Bill for an Act to authorize the Secretary of State to issue identification cards. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Merlo."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, existing today more than ever before in our life-time is the serious problem of identification. And, because of the complexity of our society, we must make identification the right of everyone rather than the privilege of those who drive automobiles. Currently, the drivers license is the most accepted means of identification. This measure calls for the Secretary of State to issue an identification card to any Illinois resident, regardless of age, who applies and submits the required in- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  formation. The card would be valid for five years and the cost would be $5.00. Among those, who would benefit most are the young, the elderly, the physically handicapped, the minority groups and persons with difficulties in speaking English. Secretary of State, John Lewis, endorses and sup- ports this proposal. And stating, and I quote, 'It fills a long standing need especially for persons not qualified to hold drivers licenses to have an effective and legal prove of identification'. Mr. Speaker, I hope that I get the necessary votes to pass this Bill. I don't know of any opposition."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man from Cook, Representative Juckett."

"Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield for a couple of questions?"

"He indicates he will."

"What is the purpose of this identification? I mean, is it to cash checks or ah..

"To cash checks, to establish credit. There are many youngsters, as you well know, who need identification, particu- larly around the campuses. It's been called to my attention that in order to attain a means of identification. There is today, a black market on some of our campuses where some of the students have to pay five to ten dollars to attain one of these things. Older students, who happen to look young, fine it impossible, as I said before, to cash checks or to gain entry into adult movies, to go into bars without any GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  identification. There is a means... There is a problem of frustration for these young people. In our Area there are Ethnic Groups who find it difficult because of the problem of dialogue in communication. And, I think, if they had this means, it would ah.. sort of resolve one of the great problems that exist."

"Did you happen to read ah.. this week's ah.. or last week's issue of the U. S. News and World Reports?"

"No, I have not."

"Well, I think, you'll find in there that the banks are starting to solve this problem by themselves with- out any cost to Government and without any involvement in Government in that they are now issuing checks with pictures of the checkholder on the checks themselves so that there would be positive identification at the time that the check was passed or used for identification. So.this, I think, the banks are doing it themselves and they're eliminating any need for any other possible identification source so that there can be very little ah.. bad check cashing for identifi- cation purposes. As a matter of fact, the banks have indi- cated that the losses through bad checks have dropped con- siderably so that that problem is very little of a problem any more for those people using it. Now, it's my under- standing in that ah.. the person, who wants this identifica- tion, and it is solely for identification and it's not for the purpose of being able to drive a car. And, I'm surprised to hear you say that the young people want this. Because, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  27. it's my understanding that the young people are driving and getting their drivers licenses in great numbers. Ah.. it's my understanding that ah.. you can send for this identifica- tion by mail. Is that correct?"

"You would have to...... Bob, you've asked about ten questions. Now, do you want me to answer them all or..."

"The only question that I asked was, is it true that you can send this for this identification by mail?"

"You will have to make the necessary application. You would give the same information, practically, that you would do when applying for a drivers license. There would be a photo attached to the identification card. On your other question, I know that you've made mention and I cer- tainly don't want you to influence the Members of the House with some of your statements. You did say that this could be a cost to Government. I might inform you, if anything, this would bring additional revenues into the General Revenue Fund. The Secretary of State anticipates as high as four million would make application for this identification card. At five dollars, it would bring in twenty million dollars. The cost of administering this Bill would be approximately two million dollars. You've talked about banks. You're talking about a limited number of people. I'm talking about the elderly, the senior citizens, the handicapped, who don't have a bank account or don't have a checking account. You may be more affluent but there are people who do not.. do not even have a bank account or a savings account. These are GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  the people that I'm interested in." 27.

"Well, Lad... ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I think, this is another intrusion, by Government, into the private affairs of their people. We're talking... If we're talking about senior citizens, I know that the vast majority of the people, who are sixty- five years of age or older, are on Medicare and they have a Medicare Card and they have identification. I think, if you're talking about the young people, you're talking about people who have drivers licenses and identification of that sort ah.. where they can be. If we're talking about College Campuses, every single College Campus, that I know of, issues an identification system for each and every student that goes to their school. I think, that the Sponsor of this Bill is over-stating the amount of people that are going to make use of it. And, even is all of these people did make use of it, I think, it is not a function of Government. I think that we should get on with the business of Government and leave the identification of the people to private sources. The banks are doing it themselves for the purpose of cashing checks. They have cut down the loses of bad checks tremendous- ly. And, they now state that there is very little trouble from this standpoint when the people use this new system. The elderly are being taken care of by the Medicare System. They have their means of identification. I think, that we ought to get out of it and, I think, we ought to leave it to private enterprise to do their own form of identification. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  And, if the people are desirous of being identified, I'm sure that they can do it through their charge cards, through their drivers license, through their medicare and other cards. And, I don't think that, if it's solely for the pur- pose of identification, that the State Government should be making a profit on those that don't have a means of identifi- cation. And, I urge a 'no' vote."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Dan O'Brien."

"Ah.. will the Sponsor yield to a question? Jack, ah.. do you think that, if this Bill passes, that there will be no need for ah.. the proposed ah.. Study Commission to look into the feasibility of a picture on a drivers license? Do you think that that will become unnecessary if this Bill should pass?"

"Representative O'Brien, I'm speaking of those in- dividuals that do not qualify for a drivers license. As I mentioned before, this is for the elderly that don't drive, the handicapped that don't drive. There are many young people that don't drive. There are ethnic ah.. ah.. indi- viduals that don't drive that are difficult to establish credit. And, this is a means, as I see it, to helping these people."

"The gentleman from Macon, Repre- sentative Borchers."

"I'd like to ask the Sponsor a question. This is permissive, is it not?". GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  29.

"It is. Tt is voluntary. I mean, you don't have to. You don't have to apply if you don't wish. You could do it on your own."

"Very well. I'd like to speak, with permission, on the Bill a moment."

"Proceed, Sir."

"I've been connected with numbers of businesses and I can see where, since ah.. the ah.. individual wishing this, ah.. has to pay for the State Board Identification and I can see where ah.. ah.. they.. it's a permissive thing, that there is a need ah.. for the business point of view with the increasing number of people and ah.. and the difficulties in ascertaining all the facts. I ah.. hate to ah.. to be opposed to my good friend, Mr. Juckett, Representative Juckett, who I see generally votes along with me on things. But ah.., being interested in business myself, I can quickly see that this an excellent idea. If it returns some money to the State, it does something else. It gives positive identification ah.. State supported and backed up by the State as an individual. And, if there is a need for it, everybody does not have proper identification. Ah.. I don't want to go to the European forms, in France and Enland and other Nations where you have to have this man.. these things. But, there's one thing that you have to say for it. They do have official identification over there. And, there's no question, who i who and we don't have it here. And, this is a step in the right direction for the businessman to know GPERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS TOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  who he is dealing with. So, I think, we ah.. should support it."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Caldwell."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of this Bill. It's a very intelligent, simple ah.. solution to a lot of social problems. It simply says that people, who do not qualify or have drivers license, should have some definite means of identification. Representative ah.. The Sponsor indicated that this Bill will be an added service to certain segments of our population in our society to simplify them identifying themselves for various purposes. I think, this is an excellent Bill. And, it's very difficult for me to understand the opposition."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Duff."

"Will the Sponsor yield to a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Ah.. Representative Merlo, ah.. I noticed that there are penalties here in the Bill ah.. where it says, 'a violation of the Act is a misdemeanor lest declared to be a felony by other Laws of the State'. And, then it goes on to ah.. ah.. describe convictions, andsoforth. And yet, it never actually sets penalties. Ah.. how would you provide for the penalties ah.. and to what reference do you have when you say, 'a felony if otherwise provided by another Law of the State'?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  J. Merlo: 31. "Representative Duff, all I can tell you is, if this Bill was drawn up by the personnel of the Secretary of State, I would assume that it is drawn in ah.. in sort of a ah.. a pattern of the present 'Drivers License Act'. And, the only thing that I can say to your question is that it would be ah.. administered according to the Law. And, that would be it." B. B. Duff: J. Merlo:

"But, it does say a 'misdemeanor', ah.." "Yes, it does." "'Unless declared to be a felony by other Laws'. Now, the two questions that I have are, what provision for penalty as a misdemeanor and how does it relate, for example, to the ah.. Code of Corrections? And, furthermore, are you aware of any other Laws which declare the violation of this Act to be a felony?"

"It's my understanding that the Criminal Code does provide that, if there is no penalty for a misdemeanor, that it would be the same as falsifying a drivers license. I'm not a Lawyer, Brian, and I really don't know the legal back- ground."

"Well ah.., I.. I would ah.. be curious to know why you feel that it would be the same as.. as ah.. violating a drivers license since ah.. the Section of the Code doesn't refer to the ah.. drivers license ah.. Sections of the Secre tary of State's Office. Is that not correct?" J. Merlo; "It's my understanding that the 'Criminal Code' in its language mentions a felonious act but does not provide GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  the penalty. Now, what transpires after that I would imagine would be a question of a hearing and the adequate Law being administered."

"Well now, this Bill, as I read it, and I'm asking it does not appear to change the Drivers License Act nor does it appear to change the 'Criminal Code'. Ah.. and I'm trying to catch the connection between the penalty section and ah.. those vague references that it makes to possibly other Statutes. Ah.. 'a violation of this Act is a misde- meanor', it says, and yet, it doesn't refer to penalties. Ah.. and then, it further says, 'unless declared to be a felony by other Laws of the State'. And, my second question to you was, are you aware of any other Laws of the State that would declare this to be a felony?"

"Brian, I do not. The only thing that I could tell you is that ah.. I would certainly ah.. solicit the Secretary of State to render an opinion. And, if necessary, the proper amendance will be put on the Bill in the Senate.""

"Well, the next question that I have is that I note on the list of costs, it says, 'an original card will be $5.00'. And, 'a renewal card...', and I pre.. and I presume or 'a duplicate card will be $3.00', if.. if somebody loses the first one, a renewal care is $5.00. And ah.., this is recorded annually or five years?"

"After every five years."

"And ah.. a $5.00 fee?"

"That's correct." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  33.

"Now, are you aware of the fact that the proposed ah.. Bill to ask for a picture on the drivers license ah.. states, as a result of the studies that were conducted on the information that was garnered, that it would cost some-. thing like $.11 a year ah.. to put a picture on a drivers license. And, in light of that, I would like to ask why do you feel that it's necessary ah.., unless there is some ah.. taxing premise or basis for this, to have a fee of $5.00 instead of what would be probably more apt, $.50?"

"Well, first of all, it is a voluntary service. The question of identification, as far as the photo is concerned, was brought up in Committee. And, it seem to be... has been rather the opinion of all of those present that, in order for an identification card to truly serve its person... its pur- poses, it must include an identi... or a picture. The Secre- tary of State informs me that it would be a cost to the De- partment of about $.50 for the processing of a photo."

"Ah.. right. And, $.50 for the processing and the fee of $5.00 which is, of course, an inordinate cost, I think, you would agree. The question.. The next question that I would ask, is the appropriation on this Bill... Ah.. is it still on the Bill or has it been amended and put on a separate Bill?"

"It's been amended and put on a separate... in a separate Bill. And, by error, I.. I neglected to ask that ah.. House Bill 466. 4669 be included as a companion Bill which I will do immediately after the passage of this Bill." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  34.

"And then ah.., the appropriation on that Bill is the same as this, $2,000,000?"

"This is correct."

"Ah.. then, I would ask why, if these are figures from somebody in the Secretary of State's Office for a system far more complicated than that proposed for the picture on the Drivers License Billiis the appropriation, $2,000,000 when they said that they need seven and a half million dol- lars ah.. for the other Bill? And, in fact, it was.. as a result of ah.. the fiscal note, was declared to be considera- bly less. Ah.. can you explain that discrepancy?"

"Yes.. Ah.. first of all, this is sort of a simpli- fied system or process where the drivers license would be more complicated. I understand that there's a question of computerizing of the whole system where it desolves drivers licenses. It involves the search as far as the Drivers License ah.. Applicant is concerned. And, all of these, of course, are additional avenues that had to be pursued before a photo could be placed on a drivers license."

"I ah.. would like to speak to the Bill."

"Proceed, Sir."

"Ah.. first of all, ah.. the System that is referred to in the Drivers License Bill is considerably simpler than this using the presently available computerized printouts and facilities already available. Secondly ah.., this Bill does not have in it ah.. any provision for the penalties of misdemeanors. It further has a cost connected with it of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  $5.00 ah.. fee ah.. compared to a $.50 cost which puts it in the nature of a tax, a considerable tax. And, it further, it seems to me, would put the State of Illinois in connec- tion into contact with...."

"Representative Meyer, for what pur- pose do you rise, Sir?"

"A point of order to my Colleague. Isn't there a time limit on questions and answers?"

"Yes, there is, Sir and I've told Representative Duff that his time is running out."

"And so, I would add that, it seems to me, that a Bill like this might very conceivably put ah.. many people into a situation ah.. by requirements of industry that they would not really be free not to ask for such a card. But, would almost be mandated by Commerce ah.. to ask for such a card. I really feel that, in terms of simplicity, cost, ease and the support of the Law Enforcement Officials of the State of Illinois, that this Bill is not adequate to the problem that the Sponsor represents. Thank you."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive J. J. Wolf."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, ah.. from what I understand of this Bill when it was heard in Executive Committee, and I voted against it then. It would seem to me that some of the shortcomings of this Bill, and I know how well-intentioned the Sponsor is, is that when we apply for a drivers license, we must do so in person, and with the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  forthcoming photograph, that will have to be processed all at one time. I believe that someone can obtain one of these identification cards just by sending in, to the Secretary of State's Office, by mail which, I think, would increase the chances of fraud. Now, a drivers license, chances of fraud are further cut down because the holder of that drivers license always runs the risk of being arrested on a traffic violation in which case any fraudulant drivers license in his possession can be ah.. turned up which can not happen very often in this case unless, after he has already cashed a bad check from some poor, unsuspecting ah.. merchant. And finally, I know the Sponsor doesn't intend this but, to me, it has some very strong overtones of a police stake. Now, I know it's voluntary at this time but I'll tell you one thing, if I were a member of the minority group, I would resist this particular Bill with everything in my power. And, I'm going to vote 'no'."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive R. Carter."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The gentleman has moved the previous question. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the gentleman motion prevails. And, Repre- sentative Merlo, to close the debate. Representative Washing- ton, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"A point of personal privilege. As a pleasant interlude, Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce the charming GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  daughter of Representative Barnes, Miss Vicki Barnes. She's a recent graduate from grammar school. She's behind us in the rear. Stand up, Vicki." Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: debate." "Representative Merlo, to close the

"Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I'd be in order, at the present time, to request that House Bill 4669 be included as a companion Bill and heard at the same time?"

"Does the gentleman have leave? Will the Clerk please read House Bill 4669 a Third Time?"

"House Bill 4669, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the 'Illinois Identification Card Act'. Third Reading of the Bill." Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: sentative Merlo, to close the debate on both Bills." "Now, the gentleman from Cook, Repre-

"In closing, I can only repeat. Currently, the drivers license is the accepted identification. And, as a result, people who do not drive, experience frustration and discouragement in cashing checks, establishing credit and other functions where an identification card is required. This building was or this Bill was supported by Mrs Jane Schmidt of the United Cerebral Palsy Association, by the senior citizens. And, I might mention ah.. passage of this House Bill 4244 is the most important to our senior citizens. Also, by W.G.N. Editorial in which it says that, 'it should not be lost in the shoffle. This Bill here should be passed'. And, Ladies and Gentlemen, I ask that you support House Bill GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  38. 4244 and 4669."

"The question is, 'shall House Bills 4244 and 4669 pass?'. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', and the opposed by voting 'no'. And, the Clerk will take two Roll Calls. Have all voted who wished? Take the record. Davis.. 'aye'. Tipsword.. 'aye'. On this question, there are 112 'Ayes', 14 'Nays' and these Bills having received the Constitutional majority are hereby de- clared passed. House... McMaster.. 'no'. House Bill 4628."

"House Bill 4628, a Bill for an Act authori- zing Local Units of Government to issue full faith and credit tax anticipation notes. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from DuPage, Representa- tive Hoffman."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill ah.. 4628 is the Tax Anticipation Note Act. I distributed a memorandum to all of the Members ah.. last week. And, since that time, I've had no ah.. contact or.. or comment by anyone in regard to this. I'd just like to point out that the advantages of the notes over warrants, of course, is that there's a lower interest rate. These notes would be issued in the same manner and under the same limitation as a warrant. Ah.. this would save ah.. the local taxing ah.. ah.. Districts a great deal of money in ah.. interest. It's estimated somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000,000 a year. Ah.. this Bill is supported by the Taxpayer's Federation, the Civic Federation and.. and ah.. I would ask GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  for your support also."

"Is there any discussion? The question is, 'shall House Bill 4628 pass?'. All those in favor signi- fy by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there are 144 'Ayes' and no 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 4286."

"House Bill 4286, an Act creating a Joint Legislative Commission on Economic Advisors. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Regner."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd like to ask leave to bring 4286 back to Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment."

"Are there any objections? Hearing none, return the Bill to the order of Second Reading and read the Amendment, please."

"Ah.. Amendment No. 1, Regner, amend House Bill 4286 on Page 2, Line 1, andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Regner."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is a Bill creating the ah.. Joint Committee of ah.. Economic Advisors to estimate revenue. Ah.. this first Amendment ah.. provides for the ah.. appointment pro- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  cedure for Members of the Commission. And, the second part of it ah.. ah.. is an Amendment providing for vacancies on the Commission. And, I move for the adoption of Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 4286."

"Alright.. Is there any discussion? If not, the gentleman has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 4286. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. Are there further Amendments? Oh! Back to Second."

"Amendment No. 2, Regner, amend House Bill 4286 on Page 3 by deleting Lines 20 through 23, andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Regner."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Amendment takes the appropriation out of the Bill because there is another or a separate appropriation Bill. And, this is in line with ah.. with the New Constitu- tion. And, it also renumbers various sections ah.. that's necessary to ah.. ah.. keep the Bill technically correct. And, I move for its adoption."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 2, to House Bill 4286. All in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. On the order of Consideration Postponed, appears House Bill 1856. The GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Bill has been read a Third Time. And, the gentleman from Cook, Representative Scariano." 41.

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, House Bill 1856 permits Junior Colleges to ah.. levy an Educational Fund Rate and a Building Rate commensurate with that of the City of Chicago, that is seventeen and a half cents per educational purposes and the five cents for building pur- poses. Ah.. there is provisions for a backdoor referendum. And, there is provision that ah.. there may not be a ah.. levy of more than three cents for educational purposes or we cent for building purposes during any one year. This would affect only about eight or nine Junior Colleges. All the rest of the more than three dozen Junior Colleges wouldn't be affected because they have rates either commensurate with this rate or higher than it. But, there are eight or nine Junior Colleges who desperately need this money. And, those Colleges are Thornton, Prairie State, DuPage, Parkland, Rock Valley, Joliet, McHenry, Kishwaukee and Waubonsee. They need this desperately in order to keep operations going. And, I would urge your support of this Bill."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man from Cook, Representative Bill Walsh."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would question the gentleman's last statement because the people in, at least, two of these Districts, that he mentioned, have within the last six weeks turned down increases such as this Bill would ah.. do without referendum GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  42. without direct referendum. Now, I suggest to you that this is a very poor time to be talking about a tax increase with- out a direct referendum considering the great enthusiasm that greeted the Bill that C. L. McCormick ah.. introduced in ah.. and the enthusiasm the Press met this Bill with. And, that ah.. many of our Members ah.. ah.. talked at some length the other day about ah.. how badly needed this Bill was. Now, at this moment, we are flying right in the face of that in considering exactly the opposite proposition. And, that is, let's face it, a tax rate increase without referendum. I would submit to you, as many of you have heard before, that there has been in the memory of anyone that I've talked to just one backdoor referendum that has been successful over the past twenty years. And, to say that there's a back- door referendum on this, is clouding the issue. I ah.. strongly urge that you vote 'no' on this Bill."

"Is there further discussion? Does the gentleman wish to close the debate? The gentleman from Cook, Representative Scariano."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, all I know is, is that the people from Mr. Walsh's District, primarily, the DuPage College people, have been pressing vigorously for this. And, just this morning, the Teachers at Prairie State Junior College in Chicago Heights went on strike. And, the only reason why the Teachers can't get the kind of money that they're looking for over there is because the College simply doesn't have it. Now, if GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  we're to avoid these donnybrooks and give the Teachers the kind of money that their entitled to and to give these Board Members the kind of money that they need to do the job that they were elected to do, it would seem to me, that we should give them this Bill. The safeguards are there. There is a backdoor referendum and there is a limitation of three cents per year on the Educational Fund Rate and one cent on the Building Rate. And, this is just exactly what the City of Chicago has. I don't know why the Junior Colleges out- side the City of Chicago should be in a more unfavorable or disadvantageous position than the City Colleges in Chicago. I think, that ah.. we should put the amount parity and let these Colleges ah the Board of Trustees do the kind of job that they were elected to do. And, I urge your support of this Bill."

"The question is, 'shall House Bill 1856 pass?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', and the opposed by voting 'nó'. The gentleman from Cook, Representative Moore, to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in support of this Bill ah.. in spite of the Chief Sponsor of the Bill. We are not on the same side very often but, occasionally, we are. I think, that this is a good Bill. It leaves us, at least in my District in the South Suburban Area of Cook County, to establish the same rate as the City Colleges of Chicago. It gives us an opportunity to bring our rate up to what their's are over a GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  44. period of time. The two new Colleges in ah.. South Suburban Cook County ah.. are in need of this money, desperately. And, there is a backdoor referendum attached to this. I see no objection to it. And, I would urge 89 votes on the Board. Thank you, M. Speaker." Rep, Arthur A. Telcser: "Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there are 42 'Ayes', 31 'Nays' and this Bill naving failed to receive the Constitutional majority is höreby declared lost."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Randolph."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, ah.. last Thursday, the Committee of the Whole heard House Bill 4680. And, the Committee did arise. I'd like, at this time, to report progress, Mr. Speaker. And, I now move that Rule 38 be suspended so House Bill 4680 may be advanced to Second Reading - Second Legislative Day. I so move, Mr. Speaker."

"Alright.. Is there objection? Leave. It is to report the Committee of the.. action of the Committee of the Whole. Oh! To advance to Second Reading now. Al- right ah.. Are the Rules suspended so that the.. the ah.. House Bill 4680 may be placed on the order of Second Reading Second Day? Alright.. Hearing no objęction, then that's the order of business that it will be placed on. The ah.. gentle- man from Cook, Mr. Hyde."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I now move that the House ah.. stand in recess for one half GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  45. hour for purposes of a Republican Conference. The Republicans will report to Room 212 immediately. If we ah.. get down there very quickly, we can dispatch our business and return in a half an hour."

"The gentleman from Union, Mr. Choate."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I would ah.. advise the Democratic Members, We are not going to have a Conference this morning. Ah.. if they want to get something to eat, have a cup of coffee or something. But, I would ask them to be back on the floor of the House ah.. in approximately thirty minutes when the Republican Conference is over."

"Alright.. Ah.. we'll be back on the floor ah.. at 1:00 Ρ.Μ. Ah.. we plan on working ah.. quite long this afternoon in order to get the Calendar moved." RECESS AT 12:30 O'CLOCK P.M. RETURN AT 1:00 O'CLOCK P.M.

"All who are not entitled to the House Chamber, will you please retire to the Gallery? Thank you."

"Alright.. The House will be in order. House Bills Second Reading. Ah.. House Bill 4112."

"House Bill 4112, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Board of. Vocational Education Rehabilitation. Second Reading of the Bill. Two Committee Amendments. Committee Amendment GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  46. No. 1, amend House Bill 4112 on Page 2 by inserting, immedi ately after Line 6, the following: 'For expenses of the Advisory Council in connection with studies and evaluations... $100,000'."

"The gentleman from Lee, Mr. Shapiro."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 4112, provides a $100,000 for the expenses of the Advisory Council in con- nection with studies and evaluations. This line item was inadvertently left out when the Bill was drafted. And, I urge its adoption."

"Any further discussion? The question is on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 2, amend House Bill 4112 on Page 4, after Line 17 andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Lee, Mr. Shapiro."

"Ah.. Mr. Chairman, ah.. Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Amendment ah.. re- quires the Department... Division of Vocational Rehabilita- tion to make reports to the ah.. ah.. Bureau of the Budget and the Appropriations Committee, Minority and Majority Staffs ah.. on a quarterly basis. And, next year prior ah.. to the next meeting of the General Assembly. And, I urge its adoption."

"Any further discussion? The question GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  is on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amend- ment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Read- ing. 4134."

"House Bill 4134, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation to the Board of Trustees to the Universities Retirement System. Second Reading of the Bill. One Commit- tee Amendment. Amend House Bill 4134 on Page 1, Section 1, Line 9, by striking '$3,038,300' and inserting in lieu there- of $38,300'."

"The gentleman from Champaign, Mr. Cla- baugh."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this is really just an Amendment in form. It's taking $3,000,000 out of this appropriation for University Retirement ah.. and putting it into the... And then, there will be an Amendment to the Universities Annual Appropriation to put the money in there. So, it's ah.. just a change of form that the ah.. Bureau decided that they rather have it this way. And, I move the adoption of the Amendment."

"Discussion? All those in favor of the adoption of the Amendment say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. 4163."

"House Bill 1463, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation for the ordinary and contingent expenses of certain Legislative Agencies. Second Reading of the Bill." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  48.

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Regner."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is a Committee Amendment ah.. which corrects the original Fills introduced to include some of the various Commissions that were left out of the ah.. original Bill. And, also it relieves to of them that were included but ah... due to the enacting Legislation of last year, these Commis- sions will cease to exist at June 30th of this year. And, I would ah.. move the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 4163."

"Discussion? All those in favor of the adoption of the Amendment say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. 4210."

"House Bill 4210, a Bill for an Act to make an appropriation... reappropriation to the Board of Higher Education. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amend- ments."

"Any Amendments from the floor?"

"Amendment No. 1, Henss, amend House Bill 4210 on Page 2, andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Henss."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, earlier today, it was agreed to shift ah.. $590,000 from one Bill, ah.. that Bill being House Bill 4528 in the Senate, to this Bill, House Bill 4210. Ah.. this particular GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  appropriation of $590,000 is ah.. going to be added on to 4210. But, actually, it has already met with the unanimous approval of this House. Ah.. this particular Amendment has been checked with the Chairman and the Minority Spokesman of the Appropriations Committee. I would appreciate your support."

"Is there discussion? The question is on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. 4211."

"House Bill 4211, a Bill for an Act to make appropriations and reappropriations to the Board of Regions. Second Reading of the Bill. Two Committee Amendments. Commit- tee Amendment No. 1, amend House Bill 4211 on Page 1, Section 1, andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Henss."

"This is a Committee Amendment reducing the appro- priation by $9,060,254. I move for its adoption."

"Discussion? The question is on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor... The gentle- man from ah.. ah.. McHenry, Mr. Hanahan."

"Mr. Speaker, ah.. on this Amendment, I have an Amendment also on the Clerk's desk and I know that we've never really resolved on how you go about handling Amendments on what priorities. This is a Committee Amendment. And, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  50. my Amendment also adds money in certain line items. And, I was just wondering if.. if they are.. if they will be compati- ble. I don't want to lose my Amendment in offering an Amend- ment ah.. because they're incompatible. I have two Amend- ments up there. I'm talking about the Amendment on the line items for ah.. appropriations."

"Well, I think, we have to ah.. address ourselves to the Amendments ah.. ah.. in their numerical sequence. And ah.., that question would be appropriate when.. when we got down to the consideration of your.. of your ah.. Amendment. Is there any further discussion on this Amendment? The question then is on its adoption. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 2, amend House Bill 4211 on Page 7, Section 6, Line 16, andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Hénss."

"Mr. Speaker, this ah.. Amendment is also a Com- mittee Amendment. It reduces the appropriation for Sangamon State University by $977,000 because of a ah.. savings on a.. on a low bid. I move for its adoption."

"Discussion? The question is on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the Layes' have it and the Amendment is adopted."

"Ah.. Amendment No. 3, Henss, amend House Bill...." CNERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  51.

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Henss."

"Amendment No. 3 is not a Committee Amendment but it is an Amendment of form. It rearranges the ah.. Bill in the amount of $17,500 which should have been taken from ah.. Section 6 instead of Section 7 in the Amendment that we have just adopted. It does not change the total appropriation. We agreed to the reduction but it was improperly drafted. And, I move the adoption of Amendment No. 3."

"Discussion? The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Simmons."

"Would the Clerk read Amendment No. 3?"

"The Clerk will read the Amendment."

"Amend House Bill 4211, as amended, on Page 7, Section 6, Line 16, by striking '$46,747,100' and inserting in lieu thereof '$46,729,600'; and on Page 8, Section 6, Line 20, by striking '$2,485,300' and inserting in lieu thereof '$2,470,300'; and on Page 8, Section 6, Line 26, by striking '$8,707,100' and inserting in lieu thereof '$8,704,600'; and on Page 8, Section 6, Line 35, by striking '$21,042,500' and inserting in lieu thereof '$21,025,000'; and on Page 11, Section 7, Line 30, by striking '$261,500' and inserting in lieu thereof '$279,000'; and on Page 11, Section 7, Line 31, by striking '$836,407' and inserting in lieu thereof '$853,907'; and on Page 11, Section 7, Line 32, by striking '$3,317,016' and inserting in lieu thereof '$3,334,516'." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  52. The ques- tion is on the adoption of Amendment No.3. All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 4, Harber Hall, amend House Bill 4211, as amended, on Page 1, Section 1, Line 15, by striking '$19,905,142' and inserting in lieu there '$19,999, 954'; and on Page 1, Section 1, Line 18, by striking '$2,430, 685' and inserting in lieu thereof '$2,432,685'; and on Page 1, Section 1, Line 19, by striking '$91,500' and insert- ing in lieu thereof '$96,000'; and on Page 1, Section 1, Line 20, by striking '$499,500' and inserting in lieu there- of '$500,000'; and on Page 1, Section 1, Line 21, by striking '$296,300' and inserting in lieu thereof '$300,000'; and on Page 1, Section 1, Line 27, by striking '$25,125,041' and inserting in lieu thereof '$25,230,553'; and on Page 2, Section 1, Line 31, by striking '$65,674,598' and inserting in lieu thereof '$65,780,110'."

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr... Mr. Henss."

"Mr. Speaker, this Amendment was to be offered by Representative Harber Hall. But ah.., in his absence, I will offer the Amendment. I'll tell you what it is. Ah.. I've discussed it with him. I agreed to the Amendment. Harber Hall is a Member of the Appropriations Committee and the Committee erroneously took $105,512 away from the Illi- nois State University thinking that the work ah.. was going : GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  to be done by the Board of Higher Education. This is not the case. There are no funds being appropriated to the Board of Higher Education for the purpose. And ah.., the money should be put back in. It has been discussed. And, I agree with him. Actually ah.., in all equity, this Amend- ment should be adopted because Illinois State University was the only senior Institution in the State to receive a cut in operating funds. And, they should be treated equitably with the other Institutions. So, on behalf of Representative Hall, I move for the adoption of Amendment No. 4."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Regner."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the Appropriations ah.. Committee did not take it out erroneously. We did it on purpose. Ah.. this is a ah.. doctor of our ah.. feasibility study. It's not a study for Illinois State but a study for all public higher educati on in Illinois. And, we felt that this job could be done by the Board of Higher Education. And, in talking to the people, they said that they could ah.. do the job. Therefore, we did ah.. pass.. pass this Amendment to take this ah.. $105, 000 out of the Illinois State Budget and ah.. request the Board of Higher Education to do the study. And, I, therefore, urge you to ah.. ah.. to not adopt ah.. this particular Amendment to House Bill 4211."

"The ah.. gentleman from ah.. Lee, Mr. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Shapiro."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, it is very seldom that I rise to oppose an opinion held by the highly respected Chairman of the Appropriations Committee. However, in defense of this Amendment, I am certainly for it, I would like to state this. I think, you are all aware of the turmoil that many of the Universities in this State have gone through in the last year in arriving at their ah.. budgets with the Board of Higher Education. And, in that process, there are funds that have been internal- ly allocated, in other words, low priority programs dropped out and higher priority programs placed in. And, by the shifting of these funds, it freed up dollars for new programs. This particular line item, in my opinion, is money that rightfully belongs to the Illinois State University. When it was ah.. given to the particular line item for ah.. the study of the doctor of our feasibility, ah.. it was money that rightfully belongs to I.S.UJ In taking it out, we are actually taking monies that they worked hard to free up. By placing it back in, we do not raise the General Revenue monies above and beyond ah.. the Bill as it was introduced. And, I would urge everyone, in this House, to support this particular Amendment. I.S.U. has been one of the Universities that's gone along with the General Assembly and the Board of Higher Education. They have worked hard to make every dollar count. They deserve this money and, I think, they should have it." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  55.

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Henss."

"I'll close."

"Is it your mike? Oh! The gentleman from Franklin, Mr. Hart."

"Well, I want to ah.. join with ah.. Representa- tive Regner, Chairman of the Appropriations Committee in opposing this Amendment. This is nothing more than just ah.. blowing a hundred and some odd thousand dollars to Sangamon... to Illinois State University to do a job that can be done by the Board of Higher Education without any additional appropriation. And ah.., this Amendment is not a Committee Amendment. The Amendment is opposed by the Appropriations Committee. And, we feel that ah.. that the job can be done without this money. And, therefore, we would ask that the House defeat this Amendment. And ah.., leave this money out of the Bill."

"Any further discussion? The gentleman from ah.. McLean, Mr. Hall." Н. Н. Hall: "Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House... Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Amendment originally was in the Budget of Illinois State University. It was removed because it was considered that the Board of Higher Education should conduct a study in the Doctor of Arts Program ah.. at that level. No money was put in the Board of Higher Education for that purpose. The Board is not going to do that and the job still needs to be GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  done. Illinois State would like to do it. They should do it. They're properly equipped to do it except for this minor funding of a hundred and five thousand dollars. And, I hope that we will approve this Amendment."

"The gentleman from ah.. McLean, Mr. Bradley."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, very briefly, in urging the support of this Amend- ment, this is a.. another instance of the Board of Higher Education in mandating to one of our Institutions that they do a job that the Institution is capable of doing. The Illi- nois State University is very capable of making the.. and conducting ah.. the survey to determine ah.. this particular program that the Board of Higher Education has asked them to do. It's been the history of the Board of asking our Institutions to conduct a study or a survey without financing the survey. And, thereby, imposing the cost upon an Insti- tution. The hundred and five thousand dollars, although in my estimation is no small sum, is certainly due ah.. to the Institution of Illinois State University if they are to con- duct this survey. And, I urge the Members on this side of the aisle ah.. not because there were no cuts in any of the other Institutions ah.. funds.. appropriation funds but be- cause it is something that they have been asked to do, they're capable of doing, they're going to do the job. And, I urge the people on this side of the aisle to support this Amend- ment. Thank you." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  57.

"The gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman."

"Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor of the Amendment yield to a question?"

"Ah.. he indicates that he will."

"Ah.. Representative Hall, was this ah.. money, which you're asking to be put back in the appropriation, was this approved by the Board of Higher Education to be included in I.S.U.'s Budget as it came to Legislature?"

"Yes."

"Ah.. the answer is ah.. indicated in the affirmative. Mr. Chair... Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentle- men of the House, ah.. not for that reason only, but certain- ly as a factor. If the Board of Higher Education ah.. would approve the type of study that is ah.. suggested here by one of the State Universities, I think, that this is the reason- able place that it be done rather than adding more and more people in a contractural or a technical ah.. status on a day to day basis to the Staff of the Board of Higher Educa- tion. I think, that those Institutions, which have the ah. facilities and the talent and the personnel to do these types of studies, should do them. And, I urge your support of this Amendment."

"The gentleman ah.. from Rock Island, Mr. Henss."

"Mr. Speaker, in closing, I.. I think, the point made by the last speaker is very pertinent. The Board of Higher Education directed the Illinois State University to GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  do this study. Now, I don't... I question, very seriously, whether the Committee or the Legislature, as a whole, ah.. is really competent to decide whether this study should be done by the Board of Higher Education or Illinois State University as a request of the Board of Higher Education. Either way, it's going to cost one hundred and five thousand dollars. If we take it out of this Bill, we're going to have to put it in somewhere else. And, I think, that the.. that it is significant that, at least, two Members of the Appro- priations Committee, Representative Hall and Representative Shapiro, are in favor of adding this back in because they felt, at least, that it was a mistake to take it out. I'll ask for your support."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Lecho- wicz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and...."

"Well, he.. he was closing, you know. Mr. Henss was closing ah.. debate. Did you have...."

"I'll explain my vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"Okay.. Alright ah.. Has there been a request for a Roll Call? Oh! Alright... The question is, 'shall this Amendment No. 4 be adopted?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Lechowicz, desire to explain his vote?"

"Ah.. yes, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, actually ah.., this item was cut in the Appro- priations Committee on the sheer purpose that the Board of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  59. Higher Education has stated that they would do this study with no additional funds. This is one of the reasons why, I hope, that this Amendment is defeated."

"Have all voted who wished? The gentle- man from Cook, Mr. Regner."

"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to explain my vote. The General... The General Assembly created the Board of Higher Education in 1961 as a coordinating.. a Planning Agency for all of Higher Education. It is the Board of Higher Educa- tion's responsibility to conduct feasibility studies that affect all of Higher Education in Illinois. And, I wonder why a million dollar budget is needed by the Board of Higher Education for coordinating and planning state-wide studies are to be done by individual Universities at additional costs. The Board of Higher Education justifies the high salaries of their employees on the basis that you must pay a high price to get the most competent people. However, the Board now employs six or more people at a annual salary of $28,000 or more. And, they've just recently hired a Deputy Director for $40,000. And, I wonder why we still have to pay an additional $105,000 for a study at Illinois State University when we are paying almost a million dollars a year for the Illinois Board of Higher Education to conduct just these various studies. And ah.., this is why I'm voting ah.. voting 'no' on this Amendment. And, I would urge all of the Members to do so."

"The gentleman from ah.. McLean, Mr. Hall." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  60.

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I've never hesitated to exercise thrifty decisions and.. in matters of economy at the University of Illinois State or any other University. This is the first time that I've ever risen to make an addition to the University Budget on the floor of the House. This money is for a good program, a Doctorate of Arts. If.. If it.. If the study in the Doctor- ate of Arts is properly formed, it will take money. No money is in any budget to do this program. And yet, it has been requested by the Board of Higher Education. We believe that the Illinois State University is properly equipped in Staff to perform a very good study in this Doctorate Program. A hundred and five thousand dollars is all we're asking to put back into the budget, that was originally in the Governor's Budget for Higher Education for this Institution. So, I respectfully request that you give this some thought and.. and ah.. see fit to ah.. to include this back into the budget for this University which I have to remind this Body that has been probably in the leadership in their willingness to ah.. reduce their budget and contain the ah.. ah.. size of their budget, both in this year and in previous years, to where they are ah.. having to release personnel and they're.. they've cut much fat out of their own budget and they're operating on a very austere basis. But, this hundred and five thousand dollars, if they are to do the job, ah.. will have to be approved."

"The gentleman from ah.. Rock Island, : GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Mr. Henss." 61.

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, when the Appropriations Committee considered a budget in Higher Education, the Illinois State University was the only senior Institution in the State of Illinois to receive a cut in operating funds. This one hundred and five thousand dollars was that cut. No other senior Institution in Illi- nois received any cut in operating funds ah.. from the Committee. Instead, with a wave of a magic wand, we find the Committee adding on over six hundred thousand dollars for operation at a our biggest and richest Institution. Where is the equity in that? Please vote to add back an amount which was thoroughly considered by the Board of Higher Education for a job which was requested by the Board of Higher Education."

"Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 76 'Nays', and 62 'Yeas and the Amendment is lost."

"Amendment No. 5. Hanahan, amend House Bill 4211 on Page 12 by inserting immediately below Line 1 the following: 'Section 9. Any expenditures under this Act must be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as established by public policy'; and in line 2 by deleting the number '9' and inserting in lieu thereof the number '10'."

"The gentleman from ah.. McHenry, Mr. Hanahan."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I don't GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  believe that there is opposition to this Amendment. Ah.. what has happened over the years is that the prevailing rate has been included in all the ah.. University Budgets. This is the reaffirmation similar to what has happened when Nixon... when the President of the United States froze the prevailing wage around the United States is a lot of question in the Universities and other public bodies on exactly whether or not we should continue with the established public policy of paying prevailing rates. This Amendment would mandate the University System to ah.. pay the prevailing rates according to Law. I move its adoption."

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Henss."

"Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor of the Amendment yield to a question or two? Representative Hanahan, as I look at the Amendment here, you say that the 'expenditures will be spend in compliance with prevailing wage rates as established by public policy'. Now, that language is a little bit loose, I think, but, my question is, are you.. when you talk about it 'established by public policy', you're talking about the Statutes of the State of Illinois."

"That's right."

"How does your Amendment add anything to the exist- ing Law under which the ah.. Universities must operate?"

"I thought I explained that. When President Nixon ordered the wage freeze in the Construction Industry, which covers the prevailing rate and prevailing wage Law of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Illinois, there's much question in the eyes of the administra- tors of the various public bodies in the State of Illinois on whether or not they had to comply with either the State Law or the expressed desires of the President of the United States. This would reaffirm the Statute of the State of Illinois that's been on the Books since 1941 that we will pay the Union Rate or the prevailing rate of an area for expenditures of State Funds. That's all this Amendment does."

"Well, I... Mr. Speaker, I think, the language is a little bit loose. Ah.. it could be stated more speci- fically but I don't see that it does any ah.. damage to the Bill. And, I do not oppose the Amendment."

"Is there further discussion? A Roll Call has been requested? Alright.. All those in favor of the adoption of the Amendment will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Regner."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd like to explain my vote. Ah.. this is ah.. one in a series of Amendments on the various Higher Education- al Bills ah.. to ah.. pay a prevailing rate. Ah.. if this Amendment and the Amendments on the other Bills get adopted, ah.. we're going to require additional funds of close to nine million dollars for wage rates. In the Governor's Budget and in the Bills, as presented, they provide for the four percent pay raise ah.. for all personnel ah.. academic and non-academic. Ah.. these Amendments on this Bill and GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  64. further Bills will increase the non-academic pay raises to ah.. about five and a half percent which is one and a half percent over and above the rest of the ah.. ah.. the employees of the State Universities. I think, the four percent is fair. It's across the Board and I would urge the defeat of this Amendment."

"Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. Simms..'no'. Timothy Simms. On this question, there are 95 'Ayes', and 37 'Nays' and the Amend- ment is adopted. Is there ah...."

"Ah.. Amendment No. 6, Hanahan, amend House Bill 4211, as amended, on Page 1, Section 1 on Line 15, by striking '19,999,954' and inserting in lieu thereof '$20,718, 054'; and on Page 1, Line 27 by striking '$28,215,252' and inserting in lieu thereof '$28,933,352'; and on Page 1, Line 29 by striking '$25,734,815' and inserting in lieu thereof '$26,686,715'; and on Page 2, Line 5 by striking '$36,906,788' and inserting in lieu thereof '$37,858,688'; and on Page 2, Line 31 by striking '$73,631,212' and insert- ing in lieu thereof '$75,301,212'."

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Repre- sentative Henss."

"Mr. Speaker, I ah.. I've not seen this Amendment but I've tried to listen as the Clerk read it and I question very seriously whether it is in order. It seem to me that they're striking figures which are no longer in the Bill."

"The gentleman from McHenry, Repre- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  sentative Hanahan." 65.

"Mr. Speaker, this is exactly the point that I raised earlier before we adopted any Amendments. I'm not a mind-reader. I do not know what Amendments the House of Representatives would adopt or would not adopt. The Amend- ment is drafted in good faith and offered to the House of Representatives to be voted on as a very important issues involved here in this Amendment. And, before it's ruled out of the record, either I'd like the Bill held now as presently amended so I could properly amend the Bill or draft an Amend- ment or to have the Clerk change the figures accordingly to what is... the Bill at present. And, I respectfully re- quest that consideration be granted."

"Mr. Speaker, there is a method of.. of ah.. hand- ling this. The gentleman should have anticipated, I believe, by striking the entire line and having the line ah.. ah.. written back in in the manner he chose. He didn't have to make reference to a specific figure."

"I beg your pardon. There's no way of doing it. You've checked.... Check with the Clerk... with the Reference Bureau. And, if they can do it, they're houdinis."

"Ah.. with leave ah.., Representative Henss, ah.. can we take this out of the record right now, leave it on the order of Second while we look over the Amend- ment?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I've been ah.. sitting on the edge of my chair waiting for this Bill to be called for ah.. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  66. quite some time, I think, as you... as you know. What.. What would the schedule be then? I would definitely like to move ahead with the Bill."

"We'll come right back to it today. Ah..."

"It'll be soon?"

"Yeah..."

"Alright.."

"Okay... House Bill 4215."

"House Bill 4215, a Bill for an Act to make certain appropriation, reappropriation for the Board of Trustees of the University of Illinois. Second Reading of the Bill. Ah.. Three.. Three Committee Amendments. Amend- ment No. 1, amend House Bill 4215 on Page 1, Line 11, and- soforth."

"The gentleman from Champaign, Repre- sentative Clabaugh."

"I think, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to facilitate matters on this first Amendment. It's made up of several parts. First, the Amendment simply changes on Page ah.. 1, Line 3. It adds twenty-nine thousand plus dollars for the ah.. exercise Therapeutic Clinic in the Department of ah... ah... in the College of Physical Education. And, the next one on Page 2, Line 2, is where we add that three million dollars that I mentioned that we took out of the Bill a few minutes ago and it comes in here. And, on Page 2, Line 6, there's some changing around but there's no addition of money GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  67. there. But, there's a changing around of the figures that was ah.. put in for the crippled children's ah.. money, one change from three hundred and twelve to two hundred and sixty-seven thousands of dollars. And, on Page ah..2, Line. 7, by changing ah.. the total sums there of $540,000. And, the Amendment was adopted by the Committee unanimously, Mr. Speaker. And, I move the adoption of Amendment No. 1."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No.1, to House Bill 4215. All those in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 2, amend House Bill 4215 on Page 3, Section 4, Line 15, by striking '$82,007,200' and inserting in lieu thereof '$58,075,000', andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Champaign, Repre- sentative Clabaugh."

"That was not my Amendment, Mr. Speaker. That was the Amendment of the ah.. Committee."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Regner."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this was a ah.. Committee Amendment. And, what it does it deletes three projects from the Chicago Circle Campus, one is an addition to the ah.. Library Building, ah.. the signs in the Engineering Building, and an addition to the power plant which wouldn't be necessary if the other GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  68. two projects are taken out. And ah.., was the consensus of the Members of the Appropriation Committee to adopt this Amendment. And, what it does, the total changes in the Bill is a reduction of $23,932,200. Ah.. and I ah.. move the adoption of Amendment No. 2, to House Bill 4215."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 2, to House Bill 4215. All those in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Committee Amendments three and four were tabled in Committee. We'll go to Committee Amendment No. 5. Amend House Bill 4215 by adding after Line 24 on Page 8 the following...."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Regner."

"All this Amendment does is ah.. make the effec- tive date of the Act, July 1, 1972. I urge the adoption of Amendment 5, to House Bill 4215."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man... The gentleman from Cook, Representative Simmons."

"Creates Section 9. And, I have another Amend- ment on my desk that hasn't been read yet creating another Section 9."

"Is there a number on that Amendment, Representative Simmons? Ah.. Amendments No. 3 and 4 were tabled in Committee. Is that one of those two Amendments? GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Okay.." 69.

"It's okay now, but the next Amendment ah.. there's something wrong with it."

"Okay.. The gentleman has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 5, to House Bill 4215. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 6, Borchers, amend House Bill 4215 on Page 8, by inserting immediately after Section 9 the following: 'Section 10. No contract shall be entered into or obligation incurred for any expenditure from the appropriations made in Sections 1, 2 and 3 of this Act for the employment of Lou Gold, Instructor of Political Science at the University of Illinois'."

"The gentleman from Macon, Representa- tive Borchers."

"Mr. Speaker and Fellow Members of the House, I would like to show you files upon this gentleman. Here is, I won't read them all or I'd be here for about an hour, I just want to read a couple of statements from this. This is the ah.. Daily Illini, 'Lou Gold, a controversial instruc- tor of political science working under terminal contract this year, will be allowed to stay at the Universi... Uni.. University as a lechurer for one more year'. This has happened twice. 'Each time the question of Gold's contract came up within the College, the political science department recommended that he be retained. And, each time the College GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  70. has given him a terminal contract. There is, however, strong feeling within the political science department that the College wanted to get rid of Gold because of his teaching style and radical activism'. I won't read any more. But, as a result of this radical activism, two years ago, he contributed, through his radicalism, teaching in his classes, he contributed $40,000 worth of damage to Greene Street and Plate Glass Windows. Now, just last... a month ago, there was more activity on the campus. Here are some in the Daily Illini, 'Protestors Hit Campus Stores', which he con- tributed by his speeches. 'The Police Chief Tend To Assert Six Arrested in Anti-War Protests', 'Campus Looters on a Rampage', Headlines, 'Campus Protests, Eruption and Looting'. These are from the Currier, the Daily Illini and the News Gazette. Letters on the matter. 'Thirty-Eight Arrested in the Schunutte Protests'. He has twice been arrested for leading groups of students in protests which, if he wants to do that on his own time, okay. If he wants to be ah.. But, if he has no right to block the.. the activities, the interests, the egress of other citizens about their lawful business. He's been arrested in the ah.. in the ah.. ah.. the County Clerk's Office in Champaign and at Schunutte Air Force Base. What his present status his, with ah.. the numerous arrests and activities, I don't know. I just know that they continu... ah.. continue his ah.. terminal contract year by year. And, I think, it's time that we, as a Legis- lature, give a hint to the University that 'terminal' means GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  'terminal'. Because, if I... the way they're going now, it'll be another ten years before we see the gentleman put off the campus and the teaching of the radicalism that's now existing in his classes. So, I move the adoption of this Amendment."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man from Cook, Representative Berman."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Ah.. Representative Borchers, I'm sorry that I didn't hear some of the opening remarks. But, is this man ah.. covered by the Civil Service ah.. provision of the University?"

"I can't answer that. He has been given two terminal contracts. And, each time, they have been extended."

"Ah.. by whose decision?"

"Evidently, by the ah.. by the College of Political Science. Ah.. the University has given him the ah.. the.. the terminal contract twice. This is according to the news- paper articles. Ah..."

"Have you had a chance to look at the ah.. at his personnel file to determine the basis upon which his employment was extended?"

"I have not. But, I've seen the police files."

"Pardon.."

"I say, I have not seen his personnel file, but I know of his police record." SENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  72.

"Ah.. what... Has he been convicted of any crime?"

"I believe, both cases are still in the matter of the Court."

"Well, there's no conviction against this per- son?"

"No, there is not at the moment, as far as I know. But, this time, there may be. I don't know what's happened in the last ten days.. two weeks."

"Do we have any ah.. evidence that would justify ah.. adoption of this kind of an Amendment besides ah.. news- paper articles and ah.. pending court cases?"

"Well ah.., no, there's no other evidence. But, I think, it's rather self-evident by the activities of the University that he has contributed by this radical ah.. teachings in his classes to the extensive damage on the University of Illinois Campus."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, if I may address myself, very briefly, to this Amendment."

"Proceed, Sir."

"I think, we're getting into a very dangerous area where, without any substance of proof of any crimes being committed, we are being asked, by this Amendment, to place our determination, I think, into an area of freedom of speech, the freedom of.. of the academic community as to what this Legislature feels is the proper way for an instruc- tor to conduct his courses when we have already delegated that responsibility to an Administration to a Civil Service GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  73. Setup which has found fit, upon a careful evaluation, apparent- ly, to allow this gentleman to continue in the employment of the University. I, for one, think that it's a very bad precedence. I think, that we do not have any facts upon which to base a judgement in support of this Amendment. And, I would respectfully urge that this Amendment ah... not be adopted. And, I would recall... request a Roll Call vote, Mr. ah.. Speaker."

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Repre- sentative Pappas."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I don't know this Lou Gold, that is mentioned in the Amend- ment, but I do know that the University of Illinois is one of the outstanding Universities of this World. It consistent- ly ranked in the top ten in the United States and it did not achieve that position with unsound decisions nor with the... nor can the University maintain that position with the heavy hand of the Legislature hiring and firing their academic personnel. The University's Administration is quite capable of handling its problems. The Legislature should not take this kind of a decision. We have no Personnel Department. We don't know about this gentleman. It may well be that he is a pretty bad character. I suspect that that is a possi- bility. But, the University can handle the situation and we should stay out of it."

"Is there... The gentleman from Cook, Representative B. B. Wolfe." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  74.

"Ah.. thank you. Just briefly, Mr. Speaker, I think, that ah.. Chairman Henss of the Education... of the Higher Education Committee has made a very valid point, that it would be very dangerous for this House to adopt such an Amendment because then we would be placing ourselves as a substitute for administrators all over the State that are operating and running ah.. Colleges. And, we would be doing the hiring.... And, eventually, we would be doing the hiring and firing of ah.. personnel. I think, that ah.. we should well leave this matter to the University Administrators. And, if he's to be terminated, it should be under proper procedure. Thank you."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive J. J. Wolf."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The gentleman has moved the previous question. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the gentleman's motion prevails. And, the gentleman from Macon, Representative Borchers, to close the debate."

"Gentlemen, I ah.. concur with what ah.. the Chair- man of the Higher... the ah.. the Higher Education Committee has said and what some other gentleman here have said in rela- tion to our.. we entering into the internal affairs of the University. I concur. I put in this Amendment to draw attention to the University, that we are aware of these things. I feel that, by doing this, that we will encourage the Uni- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  versity, if they're going to give him a terminal contract, to give the gentleman a terminal contract and stick to it. All I would like to have here, actually, is just enough votes to defeat my Amendment. I ah.. That's a peculiar thing to say and I'm well aware of it. But, I think, we should come to a close vote on this to indicate to the University that we do expect them to act in cases like this and not ah.. con- tinually extend, time after time, their actions. Thank you."

"The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 6, to House Bill 4215 be adopted?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. The gentleman from Cook, Representative B. B. Wolfe, to explain his vote."

"No, I was going to ah.. ask to table the Amend- ment, Mr. Speaker, on a oral Roll Call."

"The gentleman from Champaign, Repre- sentative Hirschfeld."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentle- men of the House, I'm very tempted to vote in favor of this particular Amendment because, having lived and now living in the City of Champaign-Urbana, I feel that Representative Borchers is going to pay Professor Gold exactly what his services are worth to the University of Illinois which is zero. On the other hand, I am persuaded by the arguments of my good friend, Representative Berman, that what we are doing is injecting the Legislative Nose into Education. So, I'm also tempted to vote 'no' except that I'm afraid that a nega GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  tive vote might make Professor Gold feel that we are condon- ing his services. Therefore, I ask permission of the Chair to be recorded as 'present'."

"Record Representative Hirschfeld as voting 'present'. The gentleman from McLean, Representative Hall."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, it may be recalled here that two years ago, I intro- duced a similar subtracting budgetary for salary Amendment to reduce the budget for Illinois State University by the amount of a gentleman's salary who was, apparently, the same bent as ah.. Mr. Gold at Illinois... at the University of Illinois. Ah.. this Legislature saw fit ah.. to pass that ah.. Reducing Amendment. It had a solutary effect upon that particular gentleman and some of the activities on the campus of Illinois State. But, because I have to agree with the honored Representative from Rock Island, that this should not be a common-place practice to inject ourselves into the personnel decisions of our Universities, I would like to be recorded as voting 'present'."

"J. J. Wolf... 'present'. The gentle- man from Cook, Representative Scariano."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, in behalf of my Colleagues, Representative Thompson and Brenne and Representatives Palmer, Yourell and Kipley, I'd like to in- troduce ah.. the Dolton Girl Scout Troop #69. Mrs. Danco and Mrs. Gannon, their Leaders, right here on the right side of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  the Gallery. They're from Dolton, Illinois."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Maragos."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, also on behalf of Representative Collins, Representative Lenard and Myself, I'd like to introduce another Troop from Dolton, Illinois. But, it happens to be the Thirtieth District. And, that ah.. that's ah.. Girl Scout Troop Number ah.., from Dolton, and they're also up in the Balcony."

"The gentleman from Champaign, Repre- sentative Clabaugh."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, a look at the Board shows that I'm voting 'green', I'm voting 'aye' on this Amendment. It was my intention, for some weeks when this Bill got on the floor, to offer the very Amendment that has... that you have before you. Now, I realize that this is new in Illinois but this kind of ah.. action is not with- out precedence. Back during the first years after World War II, when many of the Federal Departments in Washington were crawling with subversives and every other kind of undesirable persons, it wasn't unusual at all for exclusions like this to have been made in some Bills that the Congress passed. Now, I'm not critical of the University of Illinois because they are doing just what every other Higher Insti... Insti- tution of Higher Learning are doing. My friend from Rock Island referred to the ah.. prestige of the University of Illinois and it has great prestige, I hope, over the last CEVERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  78. thirty years that that had something to do, possibly, with it. But, it didn't gain any prestige by having creatures like Lou Gold teaching there. Now, this is all balony that the University should not be concerned with anything that any of its employees do when they're not in classes. This man, possi..., could not possibly be a.. a teacher in any sense of the word that we expect a professional man to be when he's been out three or four times this year leading ah.. groups in all kinds of violence. Proof... Proof in Courts really doesn't mean very much any more ah.. when it comes to people's conduct. He was arrested in the ah.. in the Office of the County Clerk because he wouldn't get out when he was asked to get out, ah.. when they were closing one night. He did lead, within the past month, a group of people up to Schunutte Field to.. to ah.. put on some fake war criminal trials at the gates of Schunutte Field, had a little too good of sense to go on the grounds because then they would have been taken to the Federal Court outside of the feeling of the University and, probably, wouldn't have faired so well. But, he did get himself arrested and there were thirteen other full professors and one half time professor that got themselves arrested and took along twenty-five under- graduate students along with them. Now, if you go over there now and walk around some of those buildings and see the ah.. not only on the campus, but off the campus and see the destruction that has been caused and, I would say, by students and this man was one of the leading, if not the leading cause GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  79. of those things, you would feel just a little bit differently about it. Higher Education in this Nation is sick. It's awfully sick. I'll give you two quick examples. One man was. convicted of violence and about everything else, except rape and murder, ah.. in some of the University protests. He was finally discharged from the University of Illinois and the arms of Washington, State University were open to him and he went right out there and got on the payroll. Another one did the same thing and his.. his ah.. crime was hit a State Policeman in the mouth with a ah.. chunk of concrete and he's still on ah.. oh.. some kind of ah.. appeal and he went out to the University of Vermouth and got a job immediately, knowing his record, everybody there knew his record. Now, I'm saying that it's going to take some drastic actions like ah.. Representative Borchers has asked here to wake some of these people up. As I say, I'm not critical of the Uni- versity...."

"Representative Shea, for what purpose do you rise, Sir."

"I did make some inquiries...."

"Representative Shea... Representa- tive Clabaugh, could you ah.. wait a moment, please?"

"I don't think the floor of the House of Repre- sentatives of this State is the place to take apart a College Professor. We pay the Administrators at the University good salaries and....."

"Representative Miller, for what pur- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  pose do you rise, Sir?" 80.

"Well, I think, that ah.. Representative Shea is out of order. Ah.. he doesn't raise a point of parl... of procedure. He's ah.. ah.. attacking a man in the middle of a speech. The gentleman, Mr. Clabaugh, was explaining ah.. his vote and he was discussing the issue. And, he gets up and takes issuance. He's out of order. If he were rais- ing a point of parliamentary procedure, I could see it."

"Could you please state your point, Representative Shea? Do.. Do you have a parliamentary point you wish to ah.. to persue, Sir?"

"I just... I just wonder if this is the place to debate this type of issue?"

"Well, the Amendment deals with an individual, Representative Shea. It seems to the Chair that it ah.. deals...."

"It deals with reducing a budget item, doesn't it?"

"It does, in part, Representative Shea. But, the Chair will rule that Representative Clabaugh was proper in his ah.. remarks."

"I think, Mr. Speaker, that I've been very tolerable of a lot of other people that, I thought, was dragging a lot of muckrake in on this floor at many times on less important public issues than this. And, I appreciate your letting me finish, I'll finish in just a moment. The reason that I didn't introduce this kind of an Amendment. After I checked back into this man's record and his standing GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  81. at the University of Illinois, I am convinced, pretty thor- oughly convinced, though I have not in any way been promised, that he won't be around. But, I wish this got 89 or 90 or 95 votes and maybe it would detour some of these ah.. equally vicious but a little less militant people to behave them- selves and go ahead and teach your sons and mine ah.. they way they should be instead of propagandizing them all of the time. And, I vote 'aye', Mr. Speaker."

"The gentleman from Moultrie, Repre- sentative Stone."

"Mr. Speaker, may I please be recorded as 'present'?"

"Record the gentleman as voting 'present'. Stone. The gentleman from McLean, Representative Bradley."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I may find myself in sympathy with the Amendment that's being offered and discussed here this afternoon. However, as was pointed out earlier, ah.. in the debate, we had a similar piece of Legislation offered and passed by both Houses and signed by the Governor some two years ago ah.. taking a.. a direct cut from a Professor at Illinois State University. I was in sympathy with that piece of Legislation also. How- ever, it did not come anywhere close to doing the job that's being proposed that this Amendment will do. All that it will do and all we're doing today and all that Amendment did was cut the appropriation the personal service appropriation, and thereby, cut the salary percentage-wise for every faculty GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  82. member at the University of Illinois. If you could be spe- cific and spell out the man's name and ah.. cut his salary specific and not have it pertain to anybody else, it would be a good piece of Legislation. But, believe me, all you're doing here today is cutting the percentage-wise the salary of every professor at the University of Illinois."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Simmons."

"Well, in response to the gentleman that just spoke, ah.. the Amendment that I read does.. is very specific. And, it reads this way, 'no contract shall be entered into or obligation incurred for any expenditures from the appro- priations made in Sections 1, 2 and 3 of this Act for the employment of Lou Gold, instructor of political science at the University of Illinois.'. I think, that is very specific and that's why I'm voting 'yes'."

"Have all... The gentleman from Cook, Representative Katz."

"Ah.. I ah.. just simply want to observe in passing here that we have a Constitutional Prohibition against a Bill of Attainder. There has been a United State's Supreme Court Decision that holds that the Legislature may not prohibit the expenditure of money for a particular individual. This is clearly an Unconstitutional Act. And, those of us, who support the Constitution and those who say they do and who are against professors who don't, should show that they sup- port it right down the line. And, they should do so by re- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  specting the United State's Supreme Court Opinion, that a Legislature may not pass a Bill of Attainder against a spe- cific individual, constitutionally."

"The gentleman from Macon, Representa- tive Borchers."

"Mr. Speaker and Fellow Members of the House, I've made a pretty close estimate of the vote up there. And, I do appreci... and in explaining my vote, ah.. I ah.. I ah.. appreciate Representative Clabaugh's ah.. ah.. position. Ah.. but, I do think, that it would nice if about three more 'green' or four more 'green' lights went up there. And, I think, that the hint will be taken. We've got some reporters over here from Champaign-Urbana and it's bound ah.. to make ah.. the point over there too. So, about ah.. three more 'green' lights would be just fine."

"Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there are 56 'Ayes', 62 'Nays' and the gentleman's motion to adopt Amendment No. 6, to House Bill 4215, fails. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 7, Stone, amend House Bill 4215 on Page 8 after Section 9 by inserting the following: 'Section 10, andsoforth'."

"Gentleman from Moultrie, Representa- tive Stone, on the floor? Well, in the meantime, ah.. Repre- sentative ah.. Miller, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I have a very important announcement and it's not my farewell GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  song. You've heard that before. But, I hope it won't be a farewell tomorrow night out at Iles Park. The Ball Game is on for the benefit of the Boy's Club at 7 o'clock. And, I want all of the Athletes to go to bed early tonight and for- get the ah... forget the inequities or whatever might be found and get to bed early and let's knock the hell out of the Senate. Give me a perfect record when I leave this House. Thank you."

"Ah.. Roll Call..... Has Representa- tive Stone returned to the floor? Was Representative Stone on the floor? Ah.. we're going to have to withdraw that Amendment then. Are there further Amendments beyond Repre- sentative Stone's. Renumber them, please."

"Amendment No. 7, Londrigan, amend House Bill 4215 on Page 4 by striking Line 18; and on Page 4, Line 24 by striking '82,007,200' and inserting in lieu thereof '77,465,000'."

"The gentleman from Sangamon, Repre- sentative Londrigan."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Amendment takes out of the appropriation the funds for the second University of Illinois Law School on the Champaign Campus. It's strikes four and one half million dollars which will be quite a savings for the taxpayers. Now, I am for another State Law School, but any place, any place by on the Champaign Campus. We are going to have another Law School, apparently, at Southern in Carbondale. Whether GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  85. this or another Law School be in Southern Illinois, Central, Northern, even Chicago Circle Campus, but any place by Champaign, Illinois where we already have our one and only Law School. There's only one Law School, State Law School, Downstate or any place and that's Champaign. All of the private Law Schools are in the Chicago Area. So, doesn't it make sense that, if we're going to have another Law School or a big expansion amounting to a Law School, that it should be any place but on Champaign Campus. Now, last year, I introduced a Resolution that no University should expand larger than 20,000 student population. And, if they've already expanded farther than that, they should not grow further. The University of Illinois defeated this in the Higher Education Committee by one vote. They constantly said there and in their publications that they did not de- sire to become larger. They are already over 33,000 students at Champaign. They constantly say that they do not intend to...."

"Representative Simmons, for what pur- pose do you rise, Sir?"

"Ah.. I believe, this Amendment conflicts with Amendment No. 2 as it deals with Line 4, Page 4... Line 24, Page 4."

"Let's take a look. Ah.. your point is well taken, Representative Simmons. And ah.., the Clerk informs us that we can just change the Bill to read, 'Amend- ment, to House Bill 4215, as amended.'." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  A. E. Simmons: "And, if you do that, you'll have to change the figure in it too because the new figure, according to my records, is fifty-eight thousand... ah.. fifty-eight million, seventy-five thousand. He uses eighty-two million, 07, two hundred."

"The Clerk will do that, Representa- tive Simmons. Proceed, Representative Londrigan."

"The University of Illinois has consistently said that they do not want to become larger. But, at every opportunity, at every Legislature, they attempt to put in additional facilities. Now, my twenty thousand Resolution.. Student Resolution was supported just recently by the Carnegie Commission on Higher Education which made the study through- out the Country. This Commission established that no Uni- versity, the largest ones giving the doctoral commission, should become larger than 20,000 student population. So, there we have the highest commission in the Country supporting that no University should become larger than 20,000. Now, obviously, this will save the people, save and cut spending and taxes four and a half million. Those of you, who are concerned about secondary education, those of you, who know that we spend far too many dollars on higher education and not enough on secondary education, here is an opportunity for us to save this additional money. Another point is, in a recent editorial, that there are too many Lawyers in the State of Illinois, that Law School Students and Lawyers have increased fourteen percent just last year, that now there are 86. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF. ILLINOIS HISE OF REPRESENTATIVES  87. three and a half students in Law School.... or three and a half Lawyers for every one student in Law School. So, if we are to have another University Law School at Southern, I think, Champaign is one too many. I believe, this entire conception should fail because we have much higher priorities than this Law School. We have Welfare, Secondary Education, and almost everything else should come before this second Law School at Champaign. Another point is, that the building of this Law School will mean that ten percent of the students will come from out of State and we will be supporting out of State students with our hard earned tax dollars. So, for all of these reasons, I believe, that it's for the good of the people of the State of Illinois and also for the good of the University of Illinois itself, not to become larger. And, we should cut this spending by four and one half million dollars."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Palmer."

"If the Sponsor will yield for a question?"

"He indicates that he will."

"Ah.. Representative Londrigan, does this ah.. it.. I don't understand the Amendment. Are you seeking to delete any appropriation for the Law School at the University of Illinois?"

"Right.."

"Well then, what.. what will they do if ah.. if your motion is ah.. or your Amendment... the motion is suc- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  cessful here?" 88.

"It'll... It'll cut the Law School Appro- priation."

"You're not completely eliminating the appropria- tion then, are you?"

"No."

"And, the effect of the appropriation then.. or your Amendment then would ah.. actually hold the num.. the number of students enrolling there ah.. down. Is that cor- rect?"

"It will prevent the further expansion from 600 to 400 more students which would a thousand."

"I see. Alright.."

"The gentleman from Champaign, Repre- sentative Hirschfeld."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentle- men of the House, I don't believe that anybody has taken more of an interest in the University of Illinois Law School than I have personally. And, I think, I led the fight last year in opposition to any further funds for that Law School. However, I'm going to rise and oppose Representative Londri- gan's ah.. Amendment at this time because, I think, there's been substantial changes made in the policy of the Law School at the University of Illinois. First of all, with regard to Representative Londrigan's comments, I think, it's very, very misleading, although I'm certain that he didn't intend it to be that way, to refer to this ah.. addition at the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  89. University of Illinois Law School as a quote, 'second Law School'. This is no second Law School. It's merely expand- ing the current facilities at the University of Illinois to take care of some serious overcrowding problems they have. Now, last year, on the floor of this House, we seriously questioned the number of hours that were taught by various professors of the Law School. This matter has been resolved, to my satisfaction, after a lengthy conversation with Dean Cribbet. We also questinned the Admission Policies because we had figures that were supplied to us that showed more than twenty percent of the students at the University of Illinois Law School were out of State students. And, this did not include the special program for black students at the Uni- versity of Illinois Law School. We also seriously questinned the Policies of Admission at the University of Illinois, whereby, they would weight only one-third of the admission grade on four years of undergraduate work and two-thirds of the grade on a Law School Admission Test. And, Ladies and Gentlemen of this House, I've seen people walk into one of these L.S.A.T. Exams dead drunk and come out with a perfect score. And, someone else, who is an outstanding student, would go in, and because he would happen to panic at an exam and some people do panic at these exams, score very poorly and not be admitted to the Law School. So, I raised these questions with Dean Cribbet a year ago and we did not get them resolved. But, over the course of the past year, we have got them resolved. And, therefore, I am supporting the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  90. expansion of the Law School at the University of Illinois. Now, along this same line, later when it becomes appropriate, when the Bill is brought up, I'm going to oppose the Law School at S.I.U., not because I'm opposed to a second Law School, but it seems to me, Ladies and Gentlemen of this House, that, before we start spending money for a second Law School, we should give this money to the University of Illinois Law School which already has an established faculty, an established Law Library of thousand and hundreds of thou- sands of volumes and see whether or not that Law School can absorb. the students that want admission. I agree with the comments that were made. In some areas, there is an over- abundance of Lawyers. Therefore, I see no reason to build the second Law School in this State at this time. But, I do think, it's necessary to expand the Law School facilities at the University of Illinois, particularly, in the light of the many letters that I'm receiving from around the State of Illinois from outstanding College Graduates of the Uni- versity of Illinois and elsewhere who have been unable to be admitted to the University of Illinois Law School because there is no room in the inn. Therefore, I hope, that we will defeat this Amendment and pass the Appropriation Bill with the Law School Appropriation in it."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Mann."

"I wonder ah.. if ah.. Representative Londrigan would yield for a question?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: "He indicates he will." 91.

"Ah.. Jim, I recieved ah.. a letter ah.. either from the Dean or the Dean of Students at the Law School ah.. asking me to support increased appropriations ah.. for the Law School. Ah.. I'm not a gradutate of the Law School, but I am a graduate of the University. Ah.. I wondered ah.. is this an Agreed Amendment with him? Ah.. did they agree to this cutback?"

"No."

"The gentleman from Champaign, Repre- sentative Clabaugh."

"Mr. Speaker, practically all that I intended to say has been said by my Colleague or some of the others. And, if there's no one else, I'm going to make a motion to table this Amendment. But, I see Representative Stone is up to speak."

"The gentleman from Moultrie, Repre- sentative Stone."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen, I think, that ah.. an addition to the Law School is needed, that we need room for more ah.. students so that they can become Lawyers. I think, that if there is to be a new Law School, it should be at the University of Illinois where there are plenty of facilities already. The present Professors can ah.. teach additional students and we can get along much cheaper for the State. I think, it's pathetic that.. that there is such large percentage of the young people of the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  State that want to become Lawyers and they have no place to go. I ah.. certainly support Representative Clabaugh in his motion to table this Amendment."

"Is there further discussion? The gentleman from Lawrence, Representative Cunningham."

"Will the Sponsor of the Amendment yield to a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"James, where did you go to Law School?"

"I went to Pre-Law at Illinois and Law School at the Chicago Campus."

"Well, I had thought from the expla... I want to speak to the Amendment just a minute. I had thought from the excellence of the.. of Representative Londrigan's efforts that he was an Illinois Law School Graduate. I think, that this is an instance where all Illini Lawyers should stand together and beat down all of these efforts to keep Illinois from continuing to advance into front ranks of National Law Schools. We have witnessed in recent years amazing progress in that direction. No longer, when you say Law School, do people think of Harvard, Columbia and Yale and stop there. Now, they think of Illinois and we have an opportunity to march forward. Somehow, somewhere, we must overcome this strange love-hate relationship that we see.. advance too often among Illinois Law Graduates. All Illini should stand up with pride and vote for Clabaugh's motion to table this Amendment. We must recognize, in all modesty, 92. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  93. that Illinois turns out excellent Lawyers as exemplified by the people who serve in this House. It makes no sense at all to try to restrict the size of a fine, great University to 20,000 people, if it makes just as much sense to try to restrict people to five feet and seven inches which I would favor. But, I think, now is the time to build and even bigger and better University of Illinois. And, I'll be proud to vote with Clabaugh on his motion to table. "

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Hyde."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. I think, the University of Illinois Law School as achieved the pinacle in ah.. ah.. ranking ah.. among the major Law Schools in the Country ah.. but, I think, there is a difference between quantity and quality. And, I think, sometimes the quality ah.. is endangered at the ah.. ah.. expense of adding ah.. more and more students. Now, I'm not for ah.. ah.. diminishing the importance of the signifi- cance of a major Law School in a major ah.. State University, But, for God's sake, we need Doctors. We need Doctors desperately. We have Lawyers ah.. coming out of our ears. And, all they do is they graduate and they go to work for H.E.W. or the Office of Economic Opportunity and become public interest Lawyers and suing other branches of Govern- ment at the taxpayer's expense. Ah.. ah.. as far as I'm con- cerned, I would double or triple the ah.. appropriations to the Medical Schools, to any and all Medical Schools in this GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  94. State because there's a desperate shortage of Doctors. Lawyers? Who needs them?"

"The gentleman from Macoupin, Repre- sentative Boyle."

"I wonder if ah.. Representative Londrigan admits or will admit that there is a shortage of Law classroom space in ah.. the State today?"

"Certainly, there's a shortage of Law class- rooms, but there's things being done about it. There's ah.. a new Law School proposed at Southern. The point is, I said that I'm in favor of another Law School, but any place but on the Champaign Campus. Now, that isn't too hard to under- stand, I don't believe."

"Well, I... Myself and Representative Corbett try to get students in. I understand ah.. that students, with 4.5 averages, were turned down. And ah.., I don't know how many Lawyers ah.. we have here in the House, but... and I don't know what their grade averages were when they were in College, but I might suggest that some of them, who are here, wouldn't be Lawyers today if they had to meet the criteria and the standards that these students have to meet in trying to get into these Law Schools. And, I think, it's pretty bad when have ah.. a situation, where students that have 4.5 grade averages, are turned down because there's not enought class- room space. And, I submit that maybe some of the Lawyers here may be a little jealous that these students ah.. will be a little bit smarter than they are when they get out. And, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  I.. I don't, for one, intend to support an Amendment to re- duce Law Schools for the simple reason that there's too many Lawyers in the State of Illinois and it might hurt my Law Practice and I might lose a little bit of money. I think, that we need more Law space. And, I can't think of a finer place to have it than the University of Illinois."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Kipley."

"A point of parliamentary procedure. Ah.. is a motion to ah.. table debatable?"

"Well, Sir, the... Representative Cla- baugh indicated that he wished to make that motion. Did he. Did you actually put that motion, Repre...."

"No."

"No, he did not, Representative Kipley. The motion has not been put."

"I beg your pardon."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Maragos."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, in arising against the Amendment of my esteemed Colleague, Mr. Londrigan, I speak from personal experience because my oldest son was applying at the University of Illinois for membership. And, because of the space, he was refused and he had even a closer average, I should say, closer to 6. in his ah.. aptitude tests as compared to what Representative Boyle was saying of someone who had 4.8. It is a crying shame in this Country GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  that the opportunities for our College Students and our High School students are becoming limited because of the lack of space. I may also say also the fact that Illinois is a high grade Law School, and I'm not an alumnus and I can speak without prejudice. And, if we start another Law School now in another part of the State, it will take, at least, ten years before the reputation can be built up and the quality of that Law School can be enhanced. Therefore, I think, that we should not put any strings on any particular University, especially the University of Illinois Law School. And, therefore, I ask that the Amendment of Mr. Londrigan's not pass."

"The gentleman from Kane, Representa- tive Schoeberlein.."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, as a non-Lawyer, I move the previous question."

"The previous question has been moved. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the gentleman from Sangamon, Repre- sentative Londrigan, to close the debate."

"Mr. Speak... Mr. Speaker and Fellow Members, the point, as I said in the beginning, is we are going to have, at least, one, if not two, new Law Schools. The point is, where are those Law Schools to go? We have one State Law School. Why should we put another one on top of it? And, I say, an expansion of four hundred students is another Law School. I say, put it any place but on Champaign Campus CENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  97. which is already too crowded. And, being the second State Law School, it should not be on the Champaign Campus. Now, we've talked consistently about priority. This is way down on the list of priorities for Higher Education. Now, when we make the Higher Education priorities with Welfare, with people, with secondary education, I think, this Higher Education priority for this Law School should be way, way down on the list. Here is our opportunity to cut spending which we're always talking about. We can cut spending here four and a half million. Let's do it."

"The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 7, to House Bill 4215, be adopted?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the.... Is that Number 8? Seven, Representative Simmons. Ah.. Representative Stone was not on the floor for his Amendment so, we renumbered this one. The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 7, to House Bill 4215, be adopted?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The gentleman from Cook, Representative Fary."

"Ah.. in explaining my vote, Mr. Speaker, I've been carrying these around in my pocket for some time. Here's a young lad. His name is Dennis J. Krisic. He lives 9122 South Abers Avenue in Evergreen Park. He's now in the fourth year at ah..., he's graduating in June at the University of Illinois. He has a B and B+ average and he wants to go to Dental School and they have no room for him. They're putting him on an alternative list. Here's another one, Mark Pucinski, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  98. B+, 475 out of 500 at the University of Illinois Champaign Medical School. They have no room for him.. Doesn't qualify."

"Have all voted who wished? Take the record. Caldwell.. 'no'. On this question, there are 39 'Ayes', 67 'Nays' and the gentleman's motion, having failed to receive the majority vote, is hereby declared lost. Are there... Representative Borchers, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"I rise on a point of personal privilege."

"State your point, Sir."

"Last ah.. week, my name was publicly mentioned on the floor by Representative ah.. Arrigo in relation to ah.. matter of French. Now ah.., Representative Arrigo ah.. pointed out that ah.. 'Chevoe' was the proper word in- stead of 'Chevel'. I have two experts in French, Representa- tive Hudson and Representative Cunningham and Members of the Academy of Science of France, who are backing me up in the ah.. word that I did use. I was speaking of 'warm horse', 'chevel'. 'Chevoe is the plural. I was not speaking of plural horses. So, I just wanted to bring this to the atten- tion of Representative Arrigo. And,... And,... Just one other... one other... one other point, I'm very happy no one, since we had a loyal illini meeting, asked me to help lead the band in the... on the podium."

"Are there further Amendments? Repre- sentative Arrigo, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I want to remind the Members GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  99. of the House that that occurred during the time that there was a debate on certification of bilingual teachers. And, indeed, I believe, it was your Bill, Mr. Speaker, at the time. And, I was under the impression that our distinguished Colleague was speaking about a pack of horses. And, at that time, I thought, that certainly horses were not 'Chevel', but 'Chevoe'. But certainly, since this is a horse of a different color, I'll... I'm awfully sorry if I embarrassed the distinguished gentleman. 'Chevel' has always been one horse, 'Chevoe' more than one. I thought, he was speaking about a pack of horses. And, I'm sorry if I embarrassed him."

"Okay.." Fredric B. Selcke; "Amendment No. 8, Hanahan, amend House Bill 4215 on Page 8 by inserting immediately below Line 24 the following: "Section 9. Any expenditures under this Act must be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as established by public policy'."

"The gentleman from McHenry, Representa- tive Hanahan. Representative Simmons, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"Did I understand the Clerk to say that this creates Section 9. Ah.. didn't Amendment No.."

"Well, he's got the wrong Amendment. Ah.. Ah.. it should be ah..'on Page 8, by inserting immediately below Line 24 the following:'."

"Well, while the Clerk straightens it GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  100. out, Representative Randolph, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I'd to have permission to have Senate Bill 1353 heard in the Revenue Committee tomorrow. This has been cleared by the Leadership of both sides of the aisle."

"Are there any objections? Hearing none, that Bill will be posted and the appropriate rule will be suspended. Now, Representative Hanahan."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Amendment No. ah.. 10? 11? or whatever it is, 'any expenditures under this Act must be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as established by public policy'. This Amendment is similar to the Amendment that we adopted on the ah.. House Bill 4211. This Amendment is.. has been adopted already. Oh! Amendment No. 8. Yes. Ah.. this Amendment would insure, once again, that we... that the appropriated State funds, that are appro- priated in this Bill, will be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage laws of the State of Illinois. And, I urge its adoption."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man from Cook, Representative Simmons."

"Did we ah.. adopt Amendment No. 5 to this Bill?"

"Yes.. Yes, we did, Representative Simmons."

"Well, that created Section 9, reading, 'this Act shall take effect, July 1, 1972'. Now, this new Amend- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  ment, that we're talking about now, creates another Section 9."

"Well, if we could be at ease for a moment, we'll get the Amendments. Representative Clabaugh, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"As a matter of clarification, Mr. Speaker, I think, tabled... or ah.. Amendments No. 4 and 5 were tabled.. 3 and 4? I'm sorry. It was 3 and 4 that were tabled."

"Okay, Representative Simmons, the Clerk will correct this Amendment and make it Section 10. So, it's not in conflict with Amendment No. 5. Now, is there any discussion on Amendment No. 8? The gentleman from Champaign, Representative Clabaugh."

"Mr. Speaker, Representative Hanahan very kindly gave me a copy of this Amendment before it was introduced. I sent it to the people at the University of Illinois. And, while they don't particularly care for it, they said that they can live with it and they have no objection to the Amendment."

"The gentleman has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 8, to House Bill 4215. So, all in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there furth...."

"Amendment No. 9, Hanahan, amend House Bill 4215, on Page 1, in Line 11, by deleting '$135,191,981' and inserting in lieu thereof '$141,011,981'; and on Page 2, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  by deleting all of Line 8 and inserting in lieu thereof the following: '(Total, Section 1, $166,088,181)'. "

"The gentleman from McHenry, Representa- tive Hanahan."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this. Amendment is in answer to the questioning in the Appropria- tions Committee of the University of Illinois Budget Experts. When I questioned them on whether or not the budget as pre- sented to the General Assembly truly reflected the amounts of money needed in the area of maintenance and operation. And, lo and behold, it seems that the working guy gets it in the neck as usual, that they got shortchanged in the budget request to the tune of about five million, eight hundred and twenty thousand dollars.....".

"Representative Simmons, for what pur- pose do you rise?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Amendment No. 1 ah.. changed the figure ah.. of a hundred and thirty-five million, a hundred and ninety-one thousand, nine hundred and eighty one to a new figure of a hundred and thirty-five million, two hundred and twenty-seven thousand, six hundred and forty-three. Now, this Amendment, that we're talking about now, takes out the figure that we took out before. So, it is in conflict with Amendment No. 1."

"I think, what you're pointing out is what we've had all afternoon. Ah.. I.. I would just suggest that the Clerk read and insert the proper figure to reflect GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  the change in the Amendment which was adopted prior."

"What we're talking about is five million, eight hundred and twenty thousand dollars, is the figure that I'm seeking to add to the Bill."

"Well, in this Amendment, ah.. 9, it should read, 'by deleting a hundred and thirty-five million, two hundred and twenty-seven thousand, six hundred and forty- three'."

"The Clerk informs that he's making that change right now, Representative Simmons. Do you wish to proceed, Representative Hanahan?"

"Mr. Speaker, in questioning the University at the Budget Hearing in the Appropriations Committee, I asked the University to submit a letter which I had duplicated and presented to every Member of this General Assembly. And, these are the calculations that the University of Illinois come up with to just maintain and operate our billions and millions of dollars of investment in the University structures. We're talking about the non-academic employees pay raises. We're talking about the non-academic employees, whether they be elevators constructors or painters or electricians or brick-layers or carpenters. We're talking about the guards. We're talking about the people who work in the kitchens. We're talking about this type of people who need pay raises. And, according to the University's figures, this Amendment would compensate the non-academic employees, the prevailing wage employee, the prevailing rate employee and negotiate GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  a rate employee properly. The letter reads as follows: 'We can not predict accurately what the prevailing wage rate changes for the entire year, '72, '73, will be. However, we believe, a reasonable estimate would be $861,000. Our. Budget includes only $376,000. So, there's a deficiency of $485,000. Number two, if the negotiated employees in all units of the University receive the five and a half percent of their compensation, based on July 1st, the cost of the State Appropriations would be $615,000. Our Budget request provides for four and a half percent, effective December 1st, which amount to $230,000, leaving a deficiency of $385,000. If pay raises were given to all non-academic employees in the Division of maintenance and operation at five and a half percent, effective July 1st, the amount required from the State Appropriations would be $917,000. Our Budget includes four and a half percent from December 1st, leaving a de- ficiency of a figure over... a deficiency of $480,000. I'm sure that you will understand that the figure overlaps items 1 and 2 above, since the largest group of people in the first two items is maintenance and operations staff. To accomplish what is desirable on items 1 and 2 and 3 com- bined would be $870,000. It should be noted that to establish equity for all employees of the University similar.. similar salary and wage changes would be necessary. Our calculation of the total needs to provide salary increases of five and a half percent, effective July 1st, 1972 for all employees other than those covered in items 1, 2 and 3, is $3,820,000. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  105. If the full amount in item 3 were available, we would be... we would still have to eliminate a large number of operation and maintenance. positions unless further funds were availa- ble'. Well, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this is exactly the problem. We have a commitment of billions of dollars in the University of Illinois, both at Champaign- Urbana and the Chicago Congress Circle and Medical Center Complex. Either we, as Members of the General Assembly, want to see these facilities, these physical plant facilities maintained and operated at proper... by properly funding the Appropriation Bill. I'm sick and tired of hearing that, because we're short of funds, we lay off so many janitors. We lay off so many painters and so many electricians. The Chicago Building Trades Council of the AFL-CIO of which an Executive Board Member is in the audience, Benney Snygowski, I see up in the audience and his crew from the Painter's Union are here to witness that the Painters at the University of the Congress Circle and the University of Illinois at the Medical Center have constantly been laid off because we, in the General Assembly, have failed to properly fund the maintenance and operation figure of the University of Illinois Appropriation Bill. I urge and plead with you Members to take care of those people who are desperately needed. Walk around the University. See how bad ah.. in need of repairs some of the facilities are. See how much paint, how the electrical conditions and how the plumbing conditions, how the carpentry, the tile and carpeting is wearing out. And yet, the Uni- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  versity of Illinois came in with a false budget. 106. This Amend- ment would correct this budget. It would put back into opera- tion in the University a feeling of security for the working people who operate and maintain the University of Illinois. I urge the adoption of this Amendment."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Regner."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I suppose if I were a University Official, I wouldn't oppose this Amendment either because what it does is give them almost six million dollars additional monies for the University of Illinois. It would provide additional funds for all employees, administrators, faculty, civil service and prevailing wage personnel. If the Amendment for this University of Illinois Bill is intended to provide for salary increases for only prevailing wage, to negotiate a wage and other maintenance and operation employees, the amount needed is only a few hundred thousand dollars. The amount of money.... That amount of money is provided in House Bill 4215 as it exists right now. If the Amendment for the Uni- versity of Illinois Bill is intended to provide the above salary increases plus additional funds to retain personnel, the amount requested is still several million dollars more than is needed. The amount of money needed to retain ah.. all necessary operation and maintenance personnel is provided in 4215. The amount of money included in these... in this Amendment would encourage waste and inefficiency by the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  107. Universities rather than effective, efficient, fair and equitable management practices. And, I would urge the defeat of this Amendment."

"Is there further discussion? The gentleman from Champaign, Representative Hirschfeld."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise to support this Amendment. And, I'd like to tell this House why. I realize that this is not in the Governor's Budget. But, last time we had a University of Illinois Budget, we passed what, we thought, was a fair increase for academic and non-academic personnel, both at the University of Illinois. And, when Representative Stone, Representative Clabaugh, Senator Weaver and Myself met with the University of Illinois, we were told that there would an across-the-board increase for both academic and non-academic personnel of approximately four percent, as I remember it. Now, Ladies and Gentlemen of this House, what happened was, there had been commitments made, particularly to academic personnel, and in order to accomplish the across-the-board increase for the non-academic personnel, a great number of non-academic people had to be laid off. And, I have received literally hundreds of letters from non-academic employees at the University of Illinois by many of whom have been employed as many as twenty-two years, who no longer have a job, who are unable to bump anyone else because of senority and who will not obtain a job unless this particular Amend- ment of Representative Hanahan passes. And, while we are GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  108. kicking in an extra several millions dollars into the Budget of the University of Illinois, which I realize is in my District. I'm not voting for this as a District Bill, but I'm voting for it so that the non-academic personnel can get a fair shake rather than just laying this money out for salary increases for professors, assistant professors and associate professors which is what has happened in the past. And, I urge an affirmative vote on Representative Hanahan's Amendment."

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Repre- sentative Henss."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'm opposed to this Amendment and other Amendments to the ah.. other ah.. Appropriation Bills which will be offered by Representative Hanahan. Actually, the money is in these ah.. Appropriation Bills for salary increases to the University Personnel at the excepted rate. The issue here is how many employees shall there be. Recently, the Board of Higher Education has written a letter, dated May 25th, ah.. regarding the very question. I'd like to quote portions of it. 'Salary increases for College and University Employees were considered by the Board of Higher Education to be among the highest priorities for the Illinois Higher Education in fiscal '73. Accordingly, the Board recommended approximately twelve million dollars for academic and non- academic salary increases. Average increases of four percent for academic employees and five and one half percent for all GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  109. non-academic employees were assumed in calculating salary increase requirements. So, it is clear that the salary increases, at the excepted rate, are already provided for. The letter continues. 'In the judgement of the Board of Higher Education, adequate resources have been recommended to finance these increases. The fiscal 1973 Appropriation Bill of the four University Systems!, now get this, 'include approximately 17.8 million dollars more for operations and grants excluding retirement than was appropriated in fiscal 1972'. We're already faced with an increase of 17.8 million dollars, Ladies and Gentlemen. Representative Hanahan would add to that increase by approximately another nine million dollars, if I understand his Amendment correctly to these four ah.. ah.. Appropriation Bills. What he wants is to have more money for janitors, more grass cutting, more kitchen help, as I understood his presentation. But, that money will have to come from some other place in the Bills.. If we add more for janitors, it will have to come from, say, an academic ah.. part of the Bill. More janitors, fewer textbooks. Less of the academic so that we can force the Universities to have more for the non-academic. The purpose of a University, Ladies and Gentlemen, is, not to provide a home for jobs, the purpose is to teach. The University Administrators know what their total amount of their Appro- priation Bill will be for fiscal 1973. They have made an allocation within that total amount. If we are to raise this amount, there will be a corresponding decrease somewhere GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  else in their Appropriation Bills. We should not force such a reallocation because it will be to the detriment of the academic phase of Higher Education. Please vote 'no' on this Amendment."

"Is there further discussion? If not, the gentleman from McHenry, Representative Hanahan, to close the debate."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I left off one paragraph because I knew some Representatives may bring up the reasons why they want ah.. vote 'no' on this Amendment. I'd like to point out that the Board of Higher Education did not annualize the fiscal year '72 pay raises. That was supplemental and it cost $5,100,000 out of the existing budgets in order to meet what they failed to do. They did not include the inflationary increase in the budget figures. And, I submit to you, Ladies and. Gentlemen, that the University of Illinois, non-academic employees, whether they be the janitor or the guard, whether they be the painter or the carpenter or teamster, it's about time they have some equity from this General Assembly when it comes to maintenance and operation's budget. Now, this is the first time that we're bringing it to a head in the General Assembly. And, I suggest to you, Members of the General Assembly, that, if you want the University of Illi- nois to continue in a downward path as far as maintenance and operations, vote 'no'. But, if you want your University of Illinois to be maintained to a degree that everyone GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  recommends it to be maintained at, at.. at a level consistent to what you'd want with your own house, that you'd want it clean, you'd want it protected and you'd want it operated properly, I suggest that you vote 'aye' for this Amendment. And, I urge you to vote 'aye'."

"The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 9, to House Bill 4215 pass?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. The gentleman from McLean, Representative Hall."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I just don't understand the action of this House when this money, ah.. approaching six million dollars, was not asked for by the Higher Board, was not asked for by the University, was not considered in the Appropriations Committee, and now, we come here on the order of Second Reading, and I have a feeling that we don't under- stand what we're voting for at all because this is not six million dollars to pay prevailing wages to maintenance employees. This is a wage for everybody at the University irrespective of their positions and irrespective of what other raises have already been provided for them. Previously today, I asked for a hundred and five million dollars that had been taken out of one of the University budgets and the House denied ah.. putting that back in. And, here we are adding nearly six million dollars to a budget that was never even asked for by the University. I recommend that we vote this down, this Amendment, that is not substantiating the talk that was given in favor of it because it is not only GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  112. for maintenance employees, which... as the gentleman said amounted to $800,000, but we're increasing this six million dollars. And, I ask you, 'where is six million dollars coming from to support this Amendment?'."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Lechowicz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentle- men of the House, in explaining my 'aye' vote, this Bill was discussed in Committee. These questions were raised in the Appropriations Committee. And, in turn, the Presidents of the various Universities responded to us in letter explaining the fact that they were not permitted to include the true operating and maintenance costs in their budget request to the Bureau of the Budget. We asked them, in good faith, what, in their estimation, they needed for proper maintenance and operating costs in their respective Universities. These are the figures that they have submitted. These are the figures that we are voting for. And, I hope, that this Amend- ment is adopted."

"Have all voted who wished? Take the record. Representative ah.... Take the record. On this question, there are 107 'Ayes' and 42 'Nays' and the gentle- man's motion to adopt Amendment No. 9, to House Bill 4215, prevails. Are there.... Representative Miller, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"Well, I want to interrupt, Mr. Speaker, the proceedings ah.. to make a very vital announcement of some GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  113. great fellas up in the Gallery, up to my right there, Ben Syngowski, the President of all the Painters in the State, the District Painter's Council and Frank Bryant, the Vice- Chairman of the International. Would you stand up, Syngowski and Bryant? Two great guys. Let's give.. give them a hand."

"Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. Now, if we can go back to House Bill 4211. Is Representative Henss on the floor? Yeah.. House Bill 4211. If you'll recall, Representative Hanahan had offered an Amendment which was...."

"Amendment No. 6, Hanahan, amend House Bill 4211, as amended, on Page 1, Section 1, and on Line 15 by striking '$19,905,142' and inserting in lieu thereof '$20,....."

"The gentleman from McHenry, Repre- sentative Hanahan."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Amendment No. 2 simply does this, it adds...."

"Amendment No. 6... Amendment No. 6."

"Oh! Amendment No. 6, excuse me, to House Bill 4211 adds $812,912, to the personal services account of the Illinois State University and it adds $951,900 to the Northern Illinois University to do the identical thing that we just evaded on the University of Illinois. And, this is to take care of the maintenance and operation employees, the non- academic employees at these two Universities that were not figured in the budget as submitted to the Appropriations Committee. And,... And, instead of going through a lot of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  114. dialogue like we... I think, the same Roll Call, that we had on the previous Bill, I'll accept that on this Amendment No. 6."

"The gentleman from Rock Island, Repre- sentative Henss."

"Mr. Speaker, this is the Amendment that was not in proper form awhile ago. I would like to have the Clerk read the.. the ah.. figures to just make sure. I believe, that he probably has put it in a proper form. But ah.., I'd like to hear it."

"Will the Clerk please read the Amend- ment?"

"Amendment No. 6, amend House Bill 4211, as amended, on Page 1, Section 1, on Line 15, by striking '$19,905,142' and inserting in lieu thereof '$20,718,054'; and on Page 1, Section 1, Line 27 by striking '$25,125,041' and inserting in lieu thereof '$25,937,953'; and on Page 1, Section 1, Line 29, by striking '$25,734,815' and inserting in lieu thereof '$26,686,715'; and on Page 2, Section 1, Line 5, by striking '$32,864,915' and inserting in lieu thereof '$33,816,815'; and on Page 2, Line 31, by striking '$65,674,598' and inserting in lieu thereof '$67,439,410'."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I believe, that the Amendment probably is in a proper form now. I ah.. do not agree to the figures....."

"Representative Simmons, for what pur- pose do you rise?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  115.

"Ah.. I'd like to ask if we adopted Amendment No. 4.. If we did, this one is in conflict with it."

"Well, let's see if we did, Representa- tive Simmons. Amendment No. 4 lost, Representative Simmons. So, we're in good shape for now. Representative Henss, do you wish to proceed, Sir?"

"I ah.. would like the Membership to know that I'm opposed to it. However, I gave my speech of ah.. in opposition ah.. when this ah.. similar Amendment was adopted to the ah.. ah.. University of Illinois Budget just a few moments ago. It seems to me that ah.. alike Amendment will probably be adopted to all of these ah.. Amendatory ah.. ah.. all of these Appropriation Bills in Higher Education and that we can very well get on with the business of the House in that manner."

"Is there further discussion? The. question is,.... Do you wish to close, Representative Hanahan?"

"Same Roll Call, Mr. Speaker."

"The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 6, to House Bill 4211 be adopted?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there are 95 'Ayes', 27. 'Nays' and the gentleman's motion to adopt Amendment No. 6, to House Bill 4211, prevails. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. House Bill 4374."

"House Bill 4374, an Act to make an appro- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  priation, reappropriation to the Board of Governors of State Colleges and Universities. Second Reading of the Bill. Four Committee Amendments. Committee Amendment No. 1, amend House Bill 4374 on Page 1, andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Vermilion, Repre- sentative Campbell."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, at the offset, let me say that ah.. there are four Committee Amendments which I opposed in Committee but which I am going to move to adopt now with the understanding that ah.. I'm going to offer four additional Amendments that have been agreed to on both sides of the aisle. And, as far as Committee Amendment No. 1, ah.. this Amendment ah.. came to the... increases the amount of personal services and it also transfers some items within capital. And, as a result it has a net loss of a hundred or a reduction of $175,229. And, I move the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 1."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 4374. All in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 2, amend House Bill 4374 on Page 14, andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Vermilion, Repre- sentative Campbell.".

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  117. the House, Committee Amendment No. 2 actually cuts six million, five hundred and seven thousand dollars. And, I move for the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 2."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 2, to House Bill 4374. All in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Committee Amendment No. 3, amend House Bill 4374 on Page 14, Section 10, andsoforth."

"Representative Simmons, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I believe, Number 3 con- flicts with Number 1."

"Just one moment and we'll take a look at it. Where does it conflict, Representative Simmons?".

"Well, on ah.. Number ah.. Number 2. On Page 14, Section 10, Line 18 ah.. Amendment No. 3 should read, ah.. ah.. '$25,87... $25,878,837' instead of the '$32,8.. 386,375'. And, it should also read, 'as amended'."

"The Clerk could have changed the Committee Amendment to ah.., unless there are objections. Ah.. ah.. apparently, merely only a technical Amendment... a technical change. Well then, the Chair will have to rule that that Amendment is out of order. Representative Campbell, do you wish to ah.. "

"Well, I think, we're in the same position here GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  118. as we've been all afternoon. And ah.. ah.., I feel that the Clerk, Lan change those figures."

"Well, the difference is, it's a Committee Amendment, Representative Campbell rather than an

Amendment offered from the floor. Ah.. C. Campbell: "Well, there will be an additional Amendment offered to this which will change this figure, as amended."

"Alright.. Representative Campbell, what the practice has been is to ah.. ah.. table Amendment No. 3 and then resubmit a corrected Amendment with a sub- sequent number."

"Well, could we...."

"Do you want to take it out of the record?"

"Let's take this out of the record for a moment."

"And, you can do it that way. And, that would then take care of the conflict with Amendment No. 3. We're taking this out of the record with Amendment Numbers 1 and 2 adopted and we're leaving it on Second Read- ing. Is that correct? Amendments Number 1 and 2 have been adopted. We're leaving the Bill on the order of Second Read- ing. We'll come back to it when the Amendments are properly fixed. Okay? House Bill 4294."

"House Bill 4294, a Bill for an Act to pro- vide for the: ordinary and contingent expenses of Southern Illinois University. Second Reading of the Bill. One Committee Amndment. Amend House Bill 4294 on Page 6, Line GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  119. 35, by striking '2,500,000', and inserting in lieu thereof '4,106,500'."

"The gentleman from Jackson, Representa- tive Williams."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Committee Amendment No. 1 simply, on Page 6, Line 35, strikes '2,500,000', and inserts in lieu thereof '4,106,500'. This Amendment has been approved by the State Board of Higher Education and it has been approved by the Bureau of the Budget. And, I would move the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 1."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man's has offered to move the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 4294. All in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 2, Hanahan, amends House Bill 4294 on Page 9, by inserting immediately below Line 2 the follow- ing: 'Section 14. Any expenditures under this Act must be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as established by public policy'."

"The gentleman from McHenry, Representa- tive Hanahan."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, once again, this is an Amendment to insure the fact that the State Appropriation is spent in compliance with the established public policy of paying prevailing wage. I move the adoption of Amend... of this Amendment." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: "Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 2, to House Bill 4294. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 3, Hanahan, amends House Bill 4294, as amended, on Page 1 in Line 12 by deleting '57,425,140', and inserting in lieu thereof '57,961,158'; and in Line 25 by deleting '64,274,700', and inserting in lieu thereof '74,810,718'."

"The gentleman from McHenry, Repre- sentative Hanahan."

"Amendment No. 3, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, is similar to the Amendment that we adopted on the University of Illinois ah.. Budget. It increases, accord- ing to the letter received from Southern Illinois University Board of Trustees, dated May 22nd and discussed before the Appropriations Committee, suggests that at Southern Illinois University at Carbondale and at Edwardsville, they will be short $241,635 on.. on the prevailing wage rates and on the anticipated negotiated wage rates at S.I.U. at Carbondale and at Edwardsville, the will be short $250,129 and the other non-academic employees in operation and maintenance at S.I.U. at Carbondale and at Edwardsville will be short $35..34,254. This Amendment, which approximately adds five hundred and thirty some thousand dollars to the budget, is in accordance with our wishes ah.. to thoroughly maintain and operate our GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  121. University commitments on the physical plant area of Southern Illinois University. And, I urge the adoption of Amendment No. 3."

"Is there any discussion? Roll Call? Is there any discussion? Roll call has been requested on this ah.. question. The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 3, to House Bill 4294, be adopted?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the record. Tim Simms.. 'aye'. R. Carter.. 'aye'. On this question, there are 97 'Ayes' and 23 'Nays' and the gentleman's motion to adopt Amendment No. 3, to House Bill 4294, prevails. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 4, Harber Hall, amends House Bill 4294, as amended, on Page 1, Section 1, Line 12, by deleting '$57,425,140', and inserting in lieu thereof '$57,205,840'; and on Page 1, Line 1, Section 1, Line 13, by deleting '$7,747,200', and inserting in lieu thereof '$7,740,200'; and on Page 1, Section 1, Line 14 by deleting '$618,000', and inserting in lieu thereof '$615,000'; and on Page 1, Section 1, Line 15, by deleting '$2,633,400', and inserting in lieu thereof '$2,625,400'; and on Page 1, Line 1... Page 1, Sec- tion 1, Line 16 by striking '$1,910,100', and inserting in lieu thereof '$1,844,100'; and on Page 1, Section 1, Line 25, by deleting '$74,274,700', and inserting in lieu thereof '$73,971,400'."

"The gentleman from McLean, Representat- ive Hall." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  122.

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Amendment reduces, I believe, it's the last Amendment to this appropriation, reduces the appropriation for Southern Illinois University in total amount of $303,300. Now, this amount was appropriated and requested for the established month of a Law School at Southern Illinois University. In questioning of the President, President Dirge of Southern at Carbondale, the only plan that they have is to hirer a Chief Administrator of the Law School, a Dean, ah.. and they have no further plans. But, the want to develop a Law School down there. And, I submit to this House that, at the rate of Law Students being graduated throughout the Country, as stated by the American Bar Association, we will be, at least, fifteen thousand Lawyers exceeding the number of available positions for Lawyers in just a matter of three years. On your desk, you will find distributed information of this type, the leading one to conclude that we need no more Law Students ah.. no more new Law Schools in Illimis and one should not go into the planning stage, particularly, in Southern Illinois and, particularly, at this time. We have just increased the University of Illinois' Budget by over million dollars for expanding the Law School there. And, I would submit that, if any new Law Schools were to be con- sidered, one should consider the Area around Sangamon County as a possibility for a new School. We find in.. in ah.. ah.. studies of the population of this State that only fifteen percent of the population in Illinois live beyond a line GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINO15 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  drawn East West and crossing here at Springfield. And yet, the only concrete reason given by President Dirge for re- questing this money was that they need more Lawyers in Southern Illinois. I would say to you this, that is twenty percent of the Lawyers at the University of Illinois come from out of the State, surely eighty to eighty-five percent of those, who would enroll in Law Schools, should we build one at Southern, would come from the States of Missouri, Kentucky and Indiana. Ladies and Gentlemen, we must use fiscal responsibility in these budgets. We have, today, increased the total outlay by the State in the Area of...."

"Representative Simmons, for what pur- pose do you rise, Sir?"

"Mr.. Speaker, I believe, that ah.. ah.. Amend- ment Number 3 ah.. conflicts with Number 4 or vice versa or 4 with 3."

"Four with three. Let's take a look. That's a floor Amendment. Right? Ah.. Representative Simmons, this reflects the same type of conflict we've had all after- noon on floor Amendments. Ah.. the Clerk informs me that he could make the correction both in the Title of the Amend- ment and also in the figure which would reflect the adoption of Amendment No. 3. Representative Lechowicz, for what pur- pose do you rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, I believe, you ruled previously that the ah.. Amendment will be taken out of the record so the proper figures could be inserted. And then, we ah.. get GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  back to the Bill." 124.

"Well, that was a Committee Amendment, ah.. Representative Lechowicz."

"Well, actually, this was also in Committee and then....."

"Was this a Committee Amendment? I'm under the impression...."

"No, it was discussed in Committee. But, in turn, it was never ah.. brought forward as far as an action as far as the Committee. And, I was hoping that the Speaker would ah.. rule again, like he has done previously, that we take this item out of the record momentarily so that we could have it clarified. I'd like to see the Amendatory....".

"Well, ah..."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, ah.. this is a relatively ah.. simple Amendment either to prepare or to understand. It's ah... It's ah.. only one amount for one purpose and the figures could be readily changed ah.. if the gentleman concede to that. Otherwise, I will pull it out. But, I believe, that it could be very readily ah.. changed."

"Do you persist, Representative Lecho- wicz? The Sponsor indicates that he would withdraw... with- hold it. And, we would then hold it on the order of Second Reading. However, to be consistent, the Chair has ruled all day today, ah.. that floor Amendments, that reflect these conflicts, were corrected by the Clerk. However, the gentle- man indicates, if you wish, he will....." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  125.

"No, I'm sorry, Mr. peaker, I thought, you ruled to the contrary. I with... withdraw my ah....."

"On ah.. On a Committee Amendment."

"Yes."

"Okay.."

"Ah.. thank you, Mr. Lechowicz."

"Proceed, Sir."

"We note, in considering the advisability of establishing a new public law school in the State, that the enrollment in Law Schools has increased twenty percent ah.. year before last and fifteen percent last year. And, this year, in ah.. on the order of somewhere between fifteen and twenty percent. I do not think that it is incumbent upon the State of Illinois to even plan a new Law School at this time facing these statistics let alone fund a new Law School. I think, that we have amply provided for those who would enter into the Law at a State University just this day by increasing by over four million dollars the Law Department at the Uni- versity. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would also draw to your attention that, according to some Law Authorities, that to provide an overabundance of Lawyers on our market, will create a situation where the Lawyers are making work for themselves in order to keep busy. This can be a very dangerous thing in our ah.. Nation when ah.. Lawyers ah.. find ah.. find the law useful to themselves in order to make work. Ah.. I suggest that this Body, in considering a possibility of further outlays after this year on the order GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  126. of eight million dollars for a new... for a new ah.. building and new plant to a million, five hundred thousand dollars for faculty and operational cost, not to mention the cost of a new Law Libr... ah.. the.. the contents of a New Law Library, is going to be wasteful, is going to be unneeded and it.. worse than that, it's going to provide us with an excess of Lawyers who have nothing to do except change the Law to provide more work that really isn't needed. I ask that you support the adoption of this Amendment."

"The gentleman from Jackson, Repre- sentative Williams."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, and I know that it's been warm in here and I sometimes wonder if the gentleman, that just spoke, has had a heat stroke of some kind. Of all of the conversation that we've had this afternoon about how... what.. how great the need is for Lawyers in the State of Illinois and for a Member to stand on the floor of this House and to imply of all places to have one is in Southern Illinois. I hope that he'll make the same speech when I.S.U.'s Bill comes up and maybe we can doctor it a little bit. The Law School for Southern Illinois University has been authorized by the State Board of Higher Education. Their Bill has been approved by the Bureau of the Budget. It has the backing of the Governor of Illinois. And, I think, all of those people certainly are in a better position to pass judgement where the need should be. I think, that this is an extremely bad Amendment. I didn't hear him GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  127. making that speech awhile ago when they were expanding the Law School at the U. of I. He seemed to think that it was a good deal to have it up there. Well, I'm here to tell you that there is a tremendous need for a Law School in Southern Illinois University. And, it has been authorized by people who are in a position to know where the need is most... where the need is the greatest. And, I would urge the defeat of this Amendment."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Palmer."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I'd like to speak in favor of the Amendment and it's not because of any discrimination against Southern Illinois University or Southern Illinois. It's just as worthy as any other section of the State to receive something of this nature. But; as the distinguished Majority Leader stated before, we need money for Medical Schools. We need more money for a lot of things in this State and we have Lawyers coming out of the Law Schools too many to fill the positions that ah.. or to do anything with actually practice Law. And, I would call your attention to a.. a ah.. pamphlet or a sheet, that was circula- ted, New York Times, Sunday, February 6th, which, I think, is an accurate statement. It contains accurate statements where- in they state, 'with no increase in Law Schools, the annual rate of graduates will reach about 30,000 by 1974. But, the Department Labor estimates that the average annual openings for Lawyers until 1980 will be about 14,500'. And, that would GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  be per year. Now, it's a question of priorities here in Illinois. We don't need any more Lawyers. It's not a ques- tion of.. of trying to maintain ah.. the profession as it is. It's not a question of bright, young Lawyers coming out of Law Schools and replacing older hats. It will take a long time for them to do that. Takes about five years, after you've graduated, to become a Lawyer, as any Lawyer in this House really knows. But, we don't need any more appropria- tions in this direction. We've got enough Lawyers. We need the money for something else. And, I would suggest that we get about the business of this House and put the money where it's really needed, Medical Schools or any other place where the money is needed. I ask for the support of the Amendment. "

"The gentleman from Franklin, Repre- sentative Hart."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentle- men of the House. Ah.. with all due respect to the last ah.. person, who spoke on this Amendment, I believe, he missed the point completely. Now, there... as you all know, there has been a long range master plan for Higher Education in the State of Illinois. This has been ah.. promulgated and re- vised ah.. from time to time. The long range plan for Higher Education in Illinois, in the legal field, provides as follows: Double the size of the Law School at the University of Illinois and place a Law School on the Carbondale Campus of Southern Illinois University. Now, those people, that were entrusted to devise this plan, have given a lot more GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  129. study to it than, with all respect to the two gentleman who are supporting this Amendment, than either one of them have ever thought about. We have a lot of complaints from constituents throughout the Southern part of the State, throughout the entire part of the State, as Representative Fary pointed out awhile ago, to the effect that you can't get into Law School. And, the problem was ah.. that you don't understand about this particular Bill is, that in the Rural Downstate small Communities, we don't have enought Lawyers. We're not graduating any Lawyers for those small towns. And, we're the jobs of State's Attorney and other important positions go for the asking. The job of State's Attorney is becoming a sounding board for.. for a young Lawyer to get experience at the expense and ah.. and without Law Enforcement. It's a very important position. You can't get... You can't get people from the City to live in small towns. I think, most people know that. And, what we need to do is to provide access from the small towns to educate Lawyers who will then be willing to move back to the small towns. I don't care if you've got fifty thousand extra Lawyers in Chicago, we need them in Southern Illinois in the Rural Downstate Communities. And, this is the purpose of this Law School among other things. We don't have too many Lawyers. The Supreme Court is continually imposing burdens upon the Bar Association to defend people without compensa- tion ah.. at all stages of proceedings. They just recently, this week, said that everybody's entitled to a Lawyer in any GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  130. case, at all times, if there's a criminal penalty involved. In our Area, we don't have enought people to represent those persons. We're afraid to go into the Court House for a fear that we're going to get appointed to defend somebody anymore. And, we have lots of people in our District and in the other Districts who want to go to Law School who are qualified by way of their education, but they can't get in because of the limited space now available in Illinois. These are the kinds of things that were... were considered in the ah.. master. plan. And, the results are that they recommend that the Carbondale Campus have a Law School. Now, this.. this ah.. idea was kicked around in the Appropriations Committee ah.. by Representative Hall and the others. And, it was ah.. not proposed at that time. And, I believe, that it was the feeling of the Appropriations Committee, I know it's the feeling of the Board of Higher Education and ah.. those others who are involved in Higher Education in Illinois, that now is the time to begin. And, we would like to have this appropria- tion remain in this Bill so that we can begin to educate Lawyers to take their place in the Rural Downstate Communi- ties ah.. in many of our Districts. And ah.., I know, that there are many of your Districts where there are small towns where they don't have Lawyers, where they need them, there is a need for more Lawyers in Illinois and this Bill would pro- vide it."

"The gentleman from Union, Representa- tive Choate." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  131.

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I think, that my Colleague, Representative Hart, has adequately explained why this is an ill-advised Amendment. Maybe we've missed the basic issue involved here. Maybe the issue involved is a fact, not whether we need more Lawyers or not, but whether we want more Lawyers or not. Down in Downstate, like Representative Hart has said, there is a dyer shortage of Lawyers. You can't find Lawyers to fill the vacancies on the tickets to become candidates for State's Attorney in a great number of your Counties in Southern Illinois. The Higher Board of Education, as well as peoples from other Universities, have agreed on the master plan that Representative Hart spoke about. And, let me tell you some- thing, don't tell me that it's easy to get into Law School in this State because, if you'll come back in my Office and view my mail with me, you'll find that there's many return- ing veterans from Viet Nam, both men and women, anxiously awaiting an opportunity to further their education by entering Law School somewhere in the State of Illinois. Now, I say to you that this is taking the seed of education where it's desperately needed and that's in the Southern most portion of this State. I hope that we defeat this Amendment."

"The gentleman from Kane, Representa- tive Waddell."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The gentleman has moved the previous question. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  opposed 'no', the gentleman's motion prevails. And, the gentleman from McLean, Representative Hall, to close the debate."

"Mr. Speaker, in closing the debate, I will attempt to answer some of the questions in argument of those who favor a study to provide a new Law School at Southern. Illinois. First of all, I do not think it's practical to say that, merely by establishing a Law School in the Southern part of the State, that it's graduates are going to practice and relieve a shortage of Lawyers in that Area. When we speak of State's ah.. candidates for State's Attorneys, we find there are shortages of candidates for State's Attorneys throughout this State not just in Southern Illinois. All small Counties are having the same problem. And, essentially, it's because of the salary level. When we speak about pos- sibilities of shortages of legal advise and legal attorneys, legal practitioners in Southern Illinois, why don't we, at the same time, admit that we don't have enough Doctors down there. We don't have enough Industry down there, perhaps. We just don't have enough people down there. And, I think, it would be a serious mistake for the State to educate students from Missouri, Kentucky and Indiana at our Law School in Southern Illinois when I know, first hand, of students, who are going to night school at Dean Nobilis Law School in Chicago who work all day long and go down and attend Law School at night. And, they will find a way to get their Law Degree. And ah.., do so ah.. in addition to GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  133. holding down a full time job. I don't think that it's in- cumbent upon the State of Illinois to open up advanced de- grees in all Areas of Education throughout the State simply on the basis of location and situs. We have an outstanding Law School at the University of Illinois. And, when the gentleman refers to my favoring one Law School and not an- other, I think, perhaps, that's a fallacy and the fault that we experience in this General Assembly when we engage in some logrolling. Pre... Presumably, if I supported ah.. an increase in appropriations for a Law School in Illi... at the University of Illinois, I should do likewise for any other University who applied for the same type of funding. This is a mistake and I would not care to engage in it. I think, we have here the possibility to slow down a program that has been over-heated up, that is, establishing a new School for Attorneys at a University that has not prepared itself for it and will not provide a total service to the total State of Illinois. And, I would ask for your 'green' lights on this Amendment."

"The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 4, to House Bill 4294, be adopted?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. The gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hudson, to explain his vote. The gentleman from Macon, Representative Borchers."

"Mr. Speaker and Fellow Members of the House, in explaining my vote of 'yes' on this Amendment, we have.. I live in Decatur and we have really a glut of ah.. young GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  134. Lawyers in our Community. They're not... Some of them are not doing too good. We've even had a little trouble getting a young man ah., to run for State's Attorney. Now ah.., I suggest, with the increasing number of Lawyers in the next few years, that Decatur is going to get more than their share. And, with another year or so, they will not be able to make a living there. Ah.. by sheer necessity, they're going to have to move, into Southern Illinois to get something ah.. some business going. But, I do want to point out to Southern Illinois people, since I am on the edge of this Area, that the people are leaving Southern Illinois. There's no guaran- tee ah.. that Lawyers from a University in Southern Illinois will stay and live and work and practice in Southern Illinois. They're going to do like all the rest of the people... the young people are doing. They're going to try to go to Chicago or Decatur. Why, if we get many from Southern Illinois, Peoria and other places of greater population. So, I think, we should start the practice of going to the tremendous expense of the millions of dollars that'll take to establish a new Law School."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Hyde."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, it is futile to ah.. argue against the ah.. ah.. prevailing mood because, obviously, this Amendment ah.. ah.. is not going to prevail. But, I.. I think, those who are not paying a great deal of attention ought to notice that, if there was real sincere desire to GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  135. help people go to Law School in Southern Illinois rather than the Empire Building, this Law School would be built in Edwardsville near East St. Louis near the population where people could commute, where they wouldn't have to change their residence, where more people would be available and accessible to the Law School to get this legal education. But instead, this Law School is being put down in Carbondale and it is a further example, in my judgement, of well-inten- tion, but nonetheless, ah.. ah.. definite empire building and designed, not primarily to service the Community and the Public, but to ah.. add another jewel in the crown of Car- bondale."

"Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there are 40 'Ayes', 76 'Nays' and the gentleman's motion to adopt Amendment No. 4, to House Bill 4294, fails. Representative Hudson, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, in the Balcony, to my right, are three lovely Ladies from DuPage County representing the American Field ah.. Service... Services. And, they have with them a group of eleven or twelve students from ah.. various parts of the World, ah.. students here from Germany, Viet Nam, Peru, East Africa, South Africa, Yugoslavia, Ireguay, Belgium, England, Ecuador and Australia. They have spent the morning ah.. touring New Salem and ah.. our environments here in Spring- field and they are now here to watch our appointed State GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  136. Legislature in action. So, I welcome ah.. them with open harms and a warm heart. And ah.., they are ah.. would... Would you stand. up, please? In the ah.. Gallery to my right."

"Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. House Bill 4374. Yes, House Bill 4374 has been read a Second Time. Amendments No. 1 and 2 have been adopted. Representative Campbell, do you wish to take it from there?"

"Now, Mr. Speaker, since we've gotten resolved some of our problems, I'm going to move to adopt ah.. Commit- tee Amendment No. 3 and No. 4 even though they are technically incorrect. And then, ah.. move to table those two Amendments. And, thereby, I will not have to offer ah.. one.. one of the four Amendments which I was going to offer before."

"The gentleman has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 3 and 4 to House Bill 4374. All in favor of the adoption signify by voting 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendments are adopted. Now, the gentleman moves that those Amendments be tabled. All those in favor of the gentleman's motion to table Amendments No. 3 and 4, to House Bill 4374, indicate by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', and the Amendments are tabled. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 5, Campbell, amends House Bill 4374 as amended, by House Amendment No. 2, by restoring Line 35 on Page 14 of the Bill. And, the restored Line to read as follows: 'equipment - $503,355'."

"The gentleman from Vermilion, Repre- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  sentative Campbell." 137.

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this restores the physical plant building at Eastern Illinois University. I've talked to both sides of the aisle. I know of no opposition and I move to adopt ah.. Amendment No. 5."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 5, to House Bill 4374. All in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 6, Campbell, amends House Bill 4374, as amended, by House Amendment No. 1, by restoring Line 31 on Page 9 of the Bill, the restored and amended Line to read as follows: 'improvements - $75,000'; and by amending the dollar amount in Line 28 on Page 10 of the Bill to read '$263,332'."

"The gentleman from Vermilion, Repre- sentative Campbell."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this restores part of the planning money ah.. which had originally been taken out, roughly fifty percent of it, at ah.. Chicago State and Governor State. I move for the adoption of Amendment No. 6."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 6, to House Bill 4374. All in favor of the adoption signify by GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  138. saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 7, Campbell, amends House Bill 4374 on Page 8 by inserting after Line 35 the following: 'For planning for a Fine Arts Building, including construction documents - '$250,000'."

"The gentleman from Vermilion, Repre- sentative Campbell."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment No. 6 ah.. was originally $4,755,000. It has been reduced to $250,000. And, I move for the adoption of Amendment No. 7."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 7, to House Bill 4374. All in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 8, Campbell, amends House Bill 4374 as amended, by House Amendment No. 3."

"Ah.. Representative Campbell...."

"That Amendment, we're not going to offer because it was taken care of ah.. through the tabling of Amendment No. 3."

"Okay.. Let's not consider this Amend- ment. Would the Clerk renumber the Amendments so they ah...? Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 8, Hanahan, amends House Bill 4374, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  139. as amended, on Page 1, Line 14, by striking '$8,241,800', and inserting in lieu thereof '$8,360,200'; and on Page 1, Line 26 by striking '$9,953,900', and inserting in lieu thereof '$10,072,300'; and on Page 1, Line 29 by striking '$11,077,499', and inserting in lieu thereof '$11,495,100'; and on Page 2, Line 6 by striking '$13,993,099', and insert- ing in lieu thereof '$14,415,700'; and on Page 2, Line 24, by striking '$7,574,700', and inserting in lieu thereof '$7,762,400'; and on Page 3, Line 1 by striking '$9,284,100', and inserting in lieu thereof '$9,471,800'; and on Page 3, Line 4 by striking '$14, 265,200', and inserting in lieu thereof '$14,598,300'; and on Page 3, Line 16 by striking '$17,100,800', and inserting in lieu thereof '$17,433,900'; and on Page 3, Line 29 by striking '$57,300,823', and in- serting in lieu thereof '$58,357,624'."

"The gentleman from McHenry, Repre- sentative Hanahan. Representative Simmons, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"Ah.. this Amendment conflicts with Amendment No. 1."

"Mr. Speaker, ah.. so that we do the same thing, either the Clerk to resubmit the numbers ah.. according to the formula or the Clerk could change the title of the Amend- ment and also the figure which was altered by Amendment No. 1."

"Right.."

"What it does, Mr. Speaker, my Amendment, in essence, is seeking to add $1,046,466 to the amended Bill. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  140. In.. In effect, what it would do, would be to allow, according to the letter from the Board of Governors of State Colleges and Universities, according to their figures, in response to your specific question the following information is pro- vided. And, to include for Chicago State, Eastern Illinois University, that's for Bill Cox by the way, ah.. Northeastern Illinois University, Western Illinois University, the salary increases for the faculty and non-academic employees would not lay off for reduction from new salary increase funds for fiscal year '73 are as follows: It comes to one million, forty-six thousand, four hundred and sixty-six dollars. And, this Amendment, that I'm offering, would put in effect the same rationale we used on the other Bills, in ah.. in amend- ing the other Bills to include the proper funding for the maintenance and operation and for all the non-academic employees of these Universities so that they could maintained and operated at the proper level. And, I urge the adoption of the Amendment. If you want to hold the Amendment until I reinsert all of the figures according to the amended Bill, I will."

"The Clerk can do that, Representative Hanahan."

"So, I move... urge the adoption of this Bill. The debate should be rested on the fact that we're increasing one million dollars."

"Is there any discussion? The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 8, to House Bill 4374, be adopted?' GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  141. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed... Roll call? All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there are 100 'Ayes', 26 'Nay's' and the gentleman's motion to adopt Amendment No. 8, to House Bill 4374, prevails. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 9, Hanahan, amends House Bill 4374 on Page 16 by inserting immediately below 14 the following: 'Section 12...'."

"The gentleman from McHenry, Repre- sentative Hanahan."

"This is the Amendment that, 'any expenditure under this Act must be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as established by public policy'. I urge its adoption."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 9, to House Bill 4374.... Representative Simmons, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"Would the Clerk read where that's effective?"

"Certainly. Would you proceed, Mr. Clerk?"

"'Section 12. Any expenditures under this Act must be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as established by public policy'."

"The gentleman has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 9, to House Bill 4374. All in favor GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  142. of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. House Bill 4293."

"House Bill 4293, a Bill for an Act to provide for the ordinary and contin....."

"You want that out of the record, Repre- sentative Springer? Do you want that out of the record? Take that out of the record. House Bill 4449."

"House Bill 4449, a Bill for an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses and distribution expenses of the Illinois Junior College Board. Second Read- ing of the Bill. Two Committee Amendments. Amendment No. 1, amends House Bill 4449 on Page 4, Line... Section 6, Line 33, by striking...."

"The gentleman from Lee, Representative Shapiro."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I couldn't hear him. Could he read the Amendment again?"

"Oh! I'm sorry. Would the Clerk please read the Amendment?"

"Amendment No. 1, amends House Bill 4449 on Page 4, Section 6, Line 23 by striking '$141,110,000', and inserting in lieu thereof '$138,110,000'."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Amendment reduces the Capitol construction by $3,000,000. It has the approval of the Junior College Board. And, I urge its adoption.".. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  143.

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 4449. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', and the opposed 'no' and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 2, amends House Bill 4449 on Page 4, Line 6, by striking '$3,960,000', and inserting in lieu there- of $3,200,000'."

"The gentleman from Lee, Representa- tive Shapiro."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Amendment re.. ah.. reduces the ah.. retirement by ah.. approximately '$760,000'. And, I urge its adoption."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment 2, to House Bill 4449. All in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 3, Blades, amends House Bill 4449, on Page 2 by striking Line 27 through 34 and inserting.... on Page 3 by striking Lines 1 through 6 and inserting in lieu thereof the following: 'in order for Junior College District to qualify for a full special grant for foundation level supporting in its levy tax for the educational fund, and building operation and maintenance fund as a combined rate of .1745%, or above, for the current fiscal year."

"Representative Shapiro, for what pur- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  pose do you rise, Sir?"

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, if that's the Amendment that I think it is, that's not a Committee Amendment."

"That's a floor Amendment from Repre- sentative ah.. ah.. Blades."

"Is there... Is there not another Committee Amendment, Committee Amendment No. 3?"

"No, ah.. The Clerk informs me that there are only two Committee Amendments, Representative Shapiro."

"Alright.."

"Representative Simmons, for what pur- pose do you rise?"

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I was trying to get your attention when we were around Committee Amendment No. 1. And, I wanted to ask a question that, I think, is pertinent of the Sponsor."

"Proceed, Sir. I'm sure he'll answer."

"Ah.. On your Committee Amendment No. 1, you're changing a hundred and forty-one million ah.. to a hundred and thirty-eight million on ah.. Line 33. Why didn't you change it on the line above... a couple lines above there that repeats the same amount of money?"

"Representative Simmons, could you repeat your question, please? The gentleman from Lee ah.. could not hear you."

"On Amendment No. 1, you amended the Bill on GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  145. Line ah.. on Page 4, Line 33, changing a hundred and forty- one million, a hundred and ten thousand to a lesser amount. But, on Line 23 of the same Bill, same amount, a hundred and forty-one million, a hundred and ten thousand is used. Why didn't you change that amount?"

"Ah.. I believe, the point is ah.. is well taken. That.. That sum was not ah.. changed. But, I do understand that it is the.. the line item amount which ah.. takes... holds ah.. precedence. It could be corrected in Enrolling and Engrossing."

"Okay.. The Clerk tells me that En- rolling and Engrossing can take care of ah.. correcting that one item, Representative Simmons. Now, can we revert to Amendment No. 3, Representative Shapiro? Is your mind clear now that there are only two Committee Amendments? Okay.. Ah.. Amendment No. 3, the gentleman from Wayne, Representa- tive Blades."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment No. 3 merely changes the language of House Bill 4449. It does not ah.. deal with any figures. It does not increase the appropriation. The money is already in appropriation. But, under the present language of the Bill, any Junior College District which is not charging a tuition ah.. will lose money under.. under the present equalization in the present appropriation. The Olney Junior College in Southeastern Illinois ah.. levies the rate of $.25 per hundred where normally, the average levy is about $.17. So, the.. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  146. the people, we, there in the Olney Junior College, make up the difference ah.. by a tax levy rather than ah.. then by tuition. I urge your support."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man from Lee, Representative Shapiro."

"Mr. Speak... Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'm opposed to this Amendment for the follow- ing reasons: What is being done here is that the qualifying rates for equalization, which is a line item of 1.4 million dollars, is being changed. Now, I think, you will recall that in the last Session, when the equalization concept was first introduced into the Junior College Bill, many of us opposed it, mainly on the reason that it... for the reason that it did not include local tuition effort. Now, this equalization line item does include local tuition effort. It just happens to be that there is one Downstate Junior College District that does not charge ah.. tuition. That Junior College District is East Illinois, Eastern. Now, the Trustees Association Council of Presidents and the Junior College Board worked out an appropriation this year, that everyone seem to think is fair and balanced. And, the Board of Higher Education, the Bureau of the Budget concurred. Now in addition to this equalization, there is also 1.4 million for disadvantaged and $750,000 for local public service programs. Now, this Amendment, which is being made on behalf of this one Junior College District in the State, ah.. ironically this will increase this Junior College's GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  147. equalization to $500,000 which will be the lion's share of the 1.4 million dollars.. Now, I submit to you that, since the 1.4 has not been increased, by increasing Illinois Eastern's equalization grant from approximately $250,000 to $500,000, it is going to take $250,000 away from the other seven Junior College Districts that can qualify. Now, Illi- nois Eastern, obviously, objects to a qualification provi- sion which requires a minimum local effort as far as tuition is concerned. And, as I've said before, they are the only Downstate District that does not charge a small tuition. However, if they do charge several fees which average about $2.00 per credit hour, they also, under this Bill, get an additional qualifying credit because they're local tax rate exceeds the .1745 cents which is necessary to qualify for equalization. Now, with local credit supplied, they would need only an additional one.. one dollar and fifty-three cents tuition per credit hour which would be the lowest in the State. Now, at the time the Junior College System was created, equalization grants were not a part of the funding formula. The General Assembly should have the right to pro- vide some guideline and a few minimum standards for funding by the State of Illinois over and above flat grant alloca- tions. I think, this is a bad Amendment. It should be de- feated. It works to the detriment of seven other Junior College. Districts in Southern Illinois that do happen to do qualify. It upsets a well-formed Bill. And, I don't think, that this General Assembly should consider this Amendment GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  ic this time." 148.

"The gentleman from DuPage, Representa- tive Hoffman."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I too rise in opposition to this Amendment. During the last ah.. Session of the General Assembly, ah.. I met with the President of this ah.. this College as well as the President their Local Board with a group of other people ah.. in- volved in the Trustees Association and we discussed, at great lengti, the whole equalization concept, the concept which, on its face, I'm opposed to. And, it... it's... I'm opposed to it because of the way in which ah.. assessments are done across the State. They vary ah.. from a twenty percent level of ah.. of real value or lower to a high of.. of ah.. sixty percent. And, they use this as a criteria ah.. for any more funding of school programs than we do already, I.. I believe, is a mistake. But, on top of my objection to the equalization aspect, the present program which is in- cluded in this Bill, was worked out ah.. with interested parties. This Amendment is the ah.. result of somebody who didn't get... didn't get his way ah.. with his own group. And so, he's going to come ah.. someplace else and work outside of that arrangement. I don't think, this is good for ah.. the Junior College and the Junior College operation across the State. I don't think, it's good for the Legislative process where we attempt to work out as many things possible in other ways: Ah.. therefore, I would ah.. request your GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  support of... defeat of this particular Amendment." 149.

"The gentleman from Franklin, Repre- sentative Hart."

"Would the Sponsor yield to a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Ah.. Representative Blades, I'm sorry, I was off the floor momentarily when you explained the Amendment. Would you, briefly, tell me what this Amendment does?"

"Yes, Representative Hart. Ah.. ah.. what the Amendment does is changes the language in the present Appro- priation Bill. Ah.. if you'll recall, last year we got a million dollars equalization money. Now ah.., for some of our poorer ah.. Junior Colleges Downstate. Now, this language, in the present Bill, would deprive the Olney Junior College, according to the ah.. President of the College, of $250,000 that is already in the appropriation simply because we do not ah.. charge a tuition. Now, if we charged a tuition, we would be entitled to that. But, since we do not charge a tuition, we're not entitled to it. Now ah...."

"Well, alright. Now, if the.. if the Olney Junior College didn't get the $250,000, where would it go?"

"Well, I can't answer that. That, I don't know."

"Well, I'd like for you to take this out of the record until you can answer that question because, you know, you and I sponsored the Amendment for the ah.. Equalization Formula last Session."

"Right.." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  R. O. Hart: "And, I'm concerned, and I think some of the rest of us are concerned, about the redistribution of the money. If it isn't going to affect the money that goes to the other Junior Colleges, ah.. who are included in the equalization, we would have one position on it. If it is going to affect them, I think, we ought to have... we may have another posi- tion. And, if you could take this out of the record until we can get that resolved, I think, we might be able to work something out."

"Well, mine's merely an Amendment and the Bill was called. Maybe Doc Shapiro can.. can answer that ques- tion. I don't know."

"Well, he.. he.. Doctor Shapiro said that it would redistribute the million and a half dollars. And, I'm in- clined to agree with him. And, unless you can ex..., you know, show that it won't, ah.. we're going to oppose your Amendment."

"Redistribute a million and a half dollars?"

"That's right. In other words, it would redistri- bute, and.. and to put it into Doctor Shapiro's language, 'it would give the Olney Junior College the lion's share'. And, we didn't invision the ah.. ah.. equalization in that way. And, for that... And, if that is true, then, I'm inclined to think that it is true, then we're going to oppose the Amendment."

"Well, I certainly wouldn't have any Amendment on there, Mr. Hart, if it was going to cost the Olney Junior 150. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  151. College District a million dollars. ars. What I'm trying to do is save....."

"No. That isn't what I said."

"Is to save $250,000 for Olney Junior College that's already in the appropriation."

"That isn't what I said. What I said, and I was repeating only what the Sponsor said, you take the... you don't increase the amount of money that's available under this formula. But, what your Amendment may do is to re- distribute the million and a half dollars so that the Olney Junior College would get more than, we think, they're en- titled to. And, if that is true, then, of course, the only place to take or get that money would be from the other Junior Colleges who are going to get it under the formula. Now, there are seven or eight Junior Colleges who qualify under this ah.. equalization formula because ah.. of the theory that they have less money available per student for education and the State should help. And, I agree with that wholeheartedly. But ah.., if we're going to now ah.. take away the theory in favor of one of the Junior Colleges at the detriment of the other, then, I think, we're beginning to evade the principle. And, I want you to ah.., you know, if you can assure me that that is not true, we'd have one position on it. If it is true, then we're going to oppose it."

"Well, all I know is what the President ah.. ah. of the Olney Junior College ah.. came to Fairfield and told GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  me. And, this is what we needed in order to save $250,000 that we couldn't get. It seems to all stem around the fact that we do not change... that we do not charge tuition in the Olney Junior College District. Getting the ah.. District to ah.. ah.. vote in the Olney Junior College District...."

"I.. I understand that. I understand that. But, I'm requesting you now ah.. or the Sponsor of the Bill, if ah.., I guess, that would be his prerogative, to take this Bill out of the record for a few minutes until we can resolve the difference of an opinion that seem to be ah.. to prevail between you and Doctor Shapiro and me as to what this would do to the money available for the other Junior Colleges in Southern Illinois."

"Representative Shapiro, do you wish to take your Bill out of the record?"

"Ah.. Mr... Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I have been waiting with this Bill for several weeks now. The.. The Amendment ah.., I think, would do irreparable harm to seven other Junior Colleges in the State. Let's vote it up or down and be done with it because there are other Amendments that need to be placed on the Bill."

"Do you wish to proceed, Representative Hart?"

"Ah.. yes. Well, I'm inclined to agree with ah.. Representative Shapiro. And, I would say that, I think, it's unwise for ah.. one Junior College, which is thought to bene- fit of this type of.. of Amendment and ah.. and received it GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  153. last year ah.. through the ah.. Sponsorship of Representative Blades and Myself with the help of the Appropriations Commit- tee and, of course, the Members of this Body, to achieve some financial stability among ah.. the Junior Colleges in ah.. the Area where the assessed evaluation is less. Now, to come in and try to invade the principle of the thing in favor of one College. And, I believe, that this Amendment should be defeated. And, I ask the Members ah.. to vote 'no' on the Amendment."

"Is there further discussion? The gentleman from Effingham, Representative Keller."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentle- men of the House. I think, this is a good Amendment and I'll tell you why. The people in Southeastern Illinois levy a tax of twenty-five percent or twenty-cents against their people whereas most of the other Junior Colleges only levy a tax of one-seven-eight or one-seven-five and they, the people in the Area, are paying this here additional ah.. tuition stuff where the other Junior Colleges are charging it. I think, that they are deserving of the extra money. And, I think, that we should give it to them. Just because they're charging their own local people this and trying to do a good job and operate three campuses, which is the only Junior College operating three campuses, I think, that we should vote this Amendment up. Thank you."

"Is there further discussion? If not, the gentleman from Wayne, Representative Blades, to close GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  the debate." 154.

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I merely want to tell you that I have always supported the Junior College Programs since it started. And, in order to get our District there to vote for the tax for Junior Col- leges, we were told by those in authority in the educational field, who were ah.. shaping this Junior College Program, that they would be tuition free. I believe, that you should keep your word. I'm trying to keep the word to the people in the Olney Junior College that they would still be tuition free. Now, in order to get them to approve of a twenty-five cent on a hundred dollar assessment... on a hundred dollar of their assessed evaluation, a twenty-five cent tax, we again told them that there would be no tuition. We, again, told the people in the Olney Junior College that there would be no tuition. Now, according to our assessed evaluation, we are putting in more money in.. into the Junior College District than any other Junior College District in the State of Illinois because the average is about seventeen cents and not twenty-five. And, what I'd like to do, I'd still like to keep my word to the people there, that the Olney Junior College is not a tuition College. That was the general con- cept of the Junior Colleges in the beginning. I don't under- stand now how some of you men are saying, 'let's make it a tuition. Let's make it a tuition'. I started out that it was not to be a tuition at the Junior Colleges and I'm staying that way. I'd appreciate your support." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  155.

"The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 3, to House Bill 4449, be adopted?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The gentleman from Lawrence, Repre- sentative R. D. Cunningham."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, in a misguided sense of economy, you are strangling educational opportunity for the youth in our Area. The Junior College involed has a particular problem in that we have wide spaces. The people, that go to these Colleges, have to.. have to commute great distances in comparison with the rest of the State. We have to have some incentive to bring those young people to Eastern Illinois College. And, the incentive is the absence of tuition. The rest of the State, in their affluence for which we rejoice, should not try to force. upon us the same burden of tuition. They should take into account the fact that we do have transportation problems. If you're voting 'red', we ask you to re-examine your position and turn your switch over to 'green'. We would say to those people, who are fearful that some money would be taken from their District, that their fears are unfounded. We can qualify to get that money by levying a tuition that would destroy the schools. So, you're not protecting your College. All you're doing is forcing upon our College a condition that fine un- bearable. Re-examine. Vote 'green'."

"Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there are 35 'Ayes', 62 'Nays' GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  and the gentleman's motion to adopt Amendment No. 3, to House Bill 4449, fails. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 4, Hanahan, amends House Bill 4449 on Page 6 by inserting immediately below Line 14 the follow- ing: 'Section 8. Any expenditures under this Act must be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as establishe by public policy'; and in Line 15 by deleting the Number 8' and inserting in lieu thereof the 'Number 9'."

"The gentleman from McHenry, Repre- sentative Hanahan."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this Amendment to House Bill 4449 would once again reaffirm the policy of prevailing wage being paid by expenditures of State funds in local Communities. Especially in this Bill, House Bill 4449, it's important to adopt this Amendment because in many instances, there has been rulings arbitrarily made by local Junior College Boards, that they did not have to live up to prevailing wage and prevailing rate type of policies. This Amendment to the Appropriation Bill will instill a policy within the Junior College Appropriation expenditures, a policy of paying prevailing wage which this House and this General Assembly has adopted many many times before. And, I urge the adoption of this Amendment."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 4, to House Bill 4449. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no' and the Amendment is adopted. Are there GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  157. • further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 5, R. A. Walsh, amends House Bill 4449 on Page 3 by inserting between Line 34 and 35 the follow- ing: 'Flat rate grants shall be provided only for courses that are normally part of baccalaureate-oriented programs, occupational programs or general studies instructional pro- grams approved by the State Junior College Board that apply to an associate degree or certificate'."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Walsh." R. A. Walsh: 1 "Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. as the Membership may recall, last year we had an Amend- ment to the Junior College or, as it is now known, Junior College Appropriation Bill which was adopted through the help... ah.. with the help of Representative Murphy and others which would prohibit the distribution of State Apportionment money ah.. to schools for courses which were in the area of hobby, Jeisure time or recreational activities. That Amendment was adopted and ah.. is now the Law. It pro- hibits the distribution of State Apportionment Funds for courses such as cake decoration, floral arrangement, knitting, camping, self -hypnosis, bridge, horse training and similar hobby, recreational and liesure time activites. Ah.. this year, ah.. I have an Amendment which ah.. is basically in the wording of House Bill 4449. And, it's the language which is suggested by the State Junior College Board and which has been endorsed by the Illinois Council of Public Community GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  158. College Presidents. This Amendment, which I've just offered and which the Clerk has read, would prohibit the disbursement of flat rate grants for courses that are not normally baccalaureate-oriented or occupational programs or general studies instructional programs. Now, the State Junior Col- lege Board and representatives of the ah.. various Districts have assured me that this Amendment will achieve the same purpose as the Amendment which we adopted last year and would prohibit the disbursement of State Funds for hobby, leisure time or recreational activities. Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I urge the support of this Amendment."

"The gentleman from Franklin, Repre- sentative Hart."

"Ah.. would the Sponsor of the Amendment yield?"

"He indicates that he will."

"Ah.. I'm not particularly having a great feeling about this Amendment one way or another. But, is this a way that we can legislate in this field? Ah.. ah.. you know, the Illinois Constitution says that ah.. Appropriation Bills will be limited to the subject of appropriations. And, Appro- priation Bills are not included in the revised Statutes, you know, when they come out on your desk. So, the question that I seriously ask you about this Amend ment is, ah.. you may be making a point with it, you may be ah.. really more than that, shouldn't you have a separate Bill which would be- come a part of the permanent Statutes ah.. to take care of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  this?"

"Well ah.. Representative Hart, first, in answer to your question, yes, it is within our power to do this. We did it last year with the Amendment to which I referred. Ah.. secondly, there's no question but what we can, in our Appropriation Bill, designate the manner or limit in some way the manner in which the funds are to be used. Ah.. Repre- sentative Hanahan has just had a series of Amendments adopted which would do just that. So, I don't think there's any question but what the Appropriation Bill can contain direc- tion ah.. to the Agency indicating the manner in which the funds are to be used."

"Ah.. what are some of the courses that ah.. would not be of the kind that could... flat grant money could be used for?"

"Well, examples of courses for which funds were used in the past, they were credit equivalent courses ah.. referred to in.. in the various ah.. ah.. brochures, etc., that the ah.. the Colleges would indicate are: And, these are taken from ah.. The Bill that was past last year ah.. Cake Decoration, Floral Arrangement, Knitting, Camping, Self-Hypnosis, Bridge, Volley Ball for Couples, and other courses such as that."

"But, this would not, in any way, shape or form, prohibit ah.. ah.. occu... vocational education type of ah.. courses?"

"No, it does not. It only limits them when offered GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  160. for ah.. happy, leisure time or recreational activities."

"I see. Thank you."

"Is thére further discussion? Do you wish to close the debate, Representative Walsh?"

"Just to request a favorable Roll call."

"The gentleman has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 5, to House Bill 4449. All those in favor of the adoption signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Do you wish a Roll Call, Sir? All those in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there. further Amendments? Third Reading. House Bill 4293."

"House Bill 4293, a Bill for an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Conservation. Second Reading of the Bill. Two Committee Amendments. Amendment No. 1, amends House Bill 4293 on Page 1, Section 1, Line 12 by insorting... inserting, andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Randolph, Repre- sentative Springer."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Committee Amendment No. 1 has some inaccuracies in the ah.. figures in the Section of the General Offices of ah... House Bill 4293. Therefore, I would like to have leave of the House to table Committee Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 4293."

"Representative Springer, the procedure of the Speaker is usually to first adopt and then table the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  161. Amendment. So, the gentleman has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 4293. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amend- ment is adopted. The gentleman now moves that Amendment No. 1, to House Bill 4293, be tabled. All in favor of the gentleman'a motion to table signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is tabled. Are there further Amendments?"

"Committee Amendment No. 2, amends House Bill 4293 as amended, on Page 7, Line 8, by inserting 'land acquisition'; and on Page 7, Line 26, by striking 'land acquisition'; and on Page 8, Line 16, by striking 'land'; and on Page 8, Line 17, by striking 'acquisition'; and on Page 8, Line 25....."

"The gentleman from Randolph, Repre- sentative Springer."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Committee Amendment No. 2, takes the ah.. term 'land acquisition' out of various parts of House Bill 4263...93. I move the adoption of Amendment No. 2... Committee Amendment No. 2, to House Bill 4293."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 2, to House Bill 4293. All in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 3, Springer, amends House Bill 4293 on Page 1, Section 1, Line 12, by inserting '$1,252,300'.... GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  162.

"The gentleman from Randolph, Repre- sentative Springer."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment No. 3 corrects the inaccuracies ah.. of the original Committee Amendment No. 1 that we tabled. Therefore, I move the adoption of Amendment No. 3, to House Bill 4293."

"Is there any discussion? The gentle- man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 3, to House Bill 4293. Do you seek recognition, Representative Simmons?"

"Well, I'm not sure but ah.. it seems funny that ah.. No, I guess, it's alright."

"The gentleman has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 3, to House Bill 4293. All in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. Ah.. House Bill 4680. We have to wait a couple of moments to get ah.. House Bill 4680 down from the Clerk's Office. So, we'll just be at ease for a moment. Here we go! On the order of Second Reading, House Bill 4680."

"House Bill 4680, a Bill for an Act to amend Sec- tions of the 'Revenue Act'. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Are there Amendments from the floor?"

"Amendment No. 1, McCormick,....."

"Representative Schlickman, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  E. F. Schlickman: "A point of or... A point of order, Mr. Chairman." 163.

"State your point..."

"I don't see this Bill on the Calendar. I'm not aware that a supplemental Calendar has been distributed."

"Representative Schlickman, this Bill had already been read a First Time. And, earlier today, was sent to the order of Second Reading without reference and we're now reading it a Second Time."

"Can you have a First Reading and a Second Reading on the same Legislative Day?"

"No.. It had been read a First Time on a prior Legislative Day. In fact, it had been read last week. Yes, today it was.... The gentleman from Cook, Representative Shea, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"Mr. Speaker, this Bill is on the Calendar under Speaker's Table. Is is not?" Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: Yes, it has been read a First Time last week."

"Alright.. Now, this morning, we suspended the Rules with regards to this Bill to have it placed on the Calendar on the order of Second Reading - Sec... or Second Reading - Second Legislative Day. So that, tomorrow when it appears on the Calendar, that will be the order of business that it appears in. All we did today was waive the Rule with regard... regarding two days on the Calendar on the order of Second Reading." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 1  164.

"I think, your point is well taken, Representative Shea and Schlickman. And we'll ah..."

"Mr. Speaker, if I may..... Mr. Speaker, if I may..."

"Proceed, Sir."

"If they'd called this Bill, it would have been the first time in eight years, in my experience here in the House, that a Bill had been called when it did not appear on that order on the Calendar. And, I would like to suggest, Mr. Speaker, that there are other Bills that are on the Calendar that are ready to be called and I'd appreciate some attention being given to them."

"House Bills Third Reading. 3761."

"House Bill 3761, a Bill for an Act to provide the nomination election of judges and repeal part of an Act named herein. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The ah.. gentleman from Cook, Mr. Burditt,"

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 3761 is ah.. a Bill that merely provides for the non-partisan election and ah.. of judges. The Bill sets up a ah.. primary election in August. It's identical to a Bill that Senator Partee has except that this Bill is a non-partisan election. The elec... The primary would be held in August of this year but in other years would be ah.. at the regular time of primary elections. The ah.. final election would be in November just as ah.. ah.. as is the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  165. regular election now. This is a ah.. Bill which has been prepared by the Bar... Chicago Bar Association after very careful consideration. It has very strong support from ah.. the editorial writers of several of the newspapers because it does provide a means by which ah.. we can take a step toward taking the judges out of politics. Ah.. it's a ah.. ah.. comprehensive Bill. It has been very carefully drafted by experts. I'd be glad to answer any questions on it. But ah.., I do solicit your support for this ah.. excellent Bill."

"Alright.. The gentleman from Franklin, Mr. Hart."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"What is a non-partisan election?"

"Well, that ah.. It has been called to my attention that the Constitutional Convention was selected in a non-partisan election. And, that's ah.. That's the same kind of a think that this would be."

"Yeah.. Well, in my District, all non-partisan elections ends up Democrats against Republicans. And ah.., I think, this Bill should be defeated. It would cost a whole lot of money in the State of Illinois to have a special primary to elect judges. I think, the Bill has many deficien- cies, a non-partisanship of which is the foremost. But, I don't believe, that it's necessary ah.. with our State and ah.. and.. and with our local government, I mean, in the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  166. economic position that they're in, to ah.. go into a two million dollars project for the election of a few judges when we have a provision now which allows the Supreme Court of Illinois to fill vacancies until ah.. ah.. the successors are elected in a partisan elections which I favor. In the Constitutional Convention Referendum, the people of the State of Illinois rejected the idea of non-partisan elections for judges. I think, in fact, that most people in the State of Illinois would like for judges to run every time their election is up, not ah.. on tenure but for re-election against opposition. I think, that ah.. the peo... that this Bill does not... is not supported by the majority of the people. I don't believe, it's supported ah.. by any ah.. of the local governments which will have to provide the money to supply the election officials. And, I believe, at this time, we should defeat the Bill."

"The ah.. gentleman from ah.. ah.. Kane, Mr. Schoeberlein."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. how much.... May I ask the gentleman a question? Just how much will this special election cost in the State of Illinois?"

"Ah.. Al, the special election would be only the August Election of this year. In all other years, after this year, the primary will be at the ah.. same time as the election of State Representatives, the regular primary elec- tion. And, the final election would be at the same time as GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  167. the regular November Election. So, there would be no added costs ah.. except for the primary in the this year."

"How much will the election cost this year?"

"Ah.. I've got the figures and I've just sent out for them. It's.. It would be somewhere in the neighbor- hood of ah.. a six or eight million dollars. I'll have the exact figure for you in just a minute."

"I understand that it's a little more than that. Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, if I may, I've had judges talk to me on this. And, they are not in favor of this special election. They'd rather wait two years. Now, I don't know who it is that wants this. But ah.., I don't believe, that this should be rushed through. And, back home, I'm telling you, anybody who's going to vote for this special election, is going to have it thrown at them on election day regardless of what portion of the Dis- trict they're from. Thank you."

"The ah.. gentleman from ah.. ah.. Cook, ah.. Mr. Burditt."

"Mr. Speaker, I.. I now have the ah.. fiscal note which I requested on the Bill, Al. Ah.. and, this is from Don Ed, a Supervisor of the Index Division of the Secretary of State's Office. Ah.. he estimates that it would be a million to a million and a half for the City of Chicago and a total for the State of two and a half to three million dollars."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Shea." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  G. W. Shea: "Ah.. would the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will." 168.

"Ah.. George, as I read this Bill, you.. you get on in the primary by either two thousand votes or one per- cent of the Governor vote in your particular District the last time. Is that right?"

"That's right.. Yeah.." i

"Ah.. so that, like in Putnam County, where the vote for Governor was 2,000, you'd need twenty signatures to get on the ballot for judge?"

"Right.."

"And, then if there were three or four people on in the primary, you take the two highest and put them on the November ballot?"

"Right.."

"And then, if the two people, that got defeated, wanted to run in November, they would just file nominating papers for November again. Is that it?"

"Right.."

"So that, we go through almost a useless thing with the primary cause anybody that runs then can get back on the ballot in November. Right?"

"Right.."

"So that, we end up with... we could end up with thirty-five or forty people on the ballot for each spot?"

"Well, Jerry, the best is off the enemy of the good, as you know. And, the chances of what you're saying GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  169. actually occurring are infinitesimal. The fact is that ah... in an extreme circumstance ah.. the way the Bill is drafted, that's ah.. that's a remote possibility. But ah.., to go through the expense of a primary and lose, and then, to re- peat the action again for thirty-five candidates, ah.. I think, ah.. answers the question itself. That simply isn't going to happen."

"Well, at the primary, you only get the people that pull primary ballots voting. Right?"

"Right.."

"So that, if you pulled a Republican or a Democratic ballot at the primary, ah.. those are the people that would vote on this. Right?"

"Right.."

"Then, at the General Election, we normally have many, many more people so a fella could probably think, 'Gee I didn't get beat too bad in the primary, so I want to run again and get on at the General Election'. Is that right?"

"Well ah.., Jerry, it's right except that, you remember, this is a non-partisan primary so that there is no ah.. situation in which ah.. somebody might think, well, I.. I.. there's a lot more Republican or a lot more Democratic votes around that I could get. And, since I'm a Republican or since I'm a Democrat, I can pick up all those people who didn't vote in the primary. Ah.. this is a non-partisan election. There's no party designation on the ballot. Ah.. this is ah.. ah.. ah.. typical non-partisan election of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  170. Judge's Bill ah.. which, as you know, ah.. the Bar Associa- tion, the Newspapers and a number of other specific Organi- zations over the State have been.. been promoting to ah.. do the best job that we can to keep the judges out of poli- tics."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I remember some time back, we were told about a non- partisan election for something called the Constitutional Convention. And so, I would just like to remind the people of that when they're talking about a non-partisan election in here."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Hyde."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I'm very much in sympathy with Representative Burditt's ah.. Bill here. But, I think, he really ought to go farther. I think, the new thrust is to have guidelines on all of these primary elections so that we have a percentage of each ethnic group and ah.. women, who run on these ah.. primary races, because democracy is ah.., we see, doesn't really end up in all groups being repre- sented. The.. So, we've got to, I think, refine your Bill, Representative Burditt, to include ah.. every ethnic group ah.. in the exact percentage or as close as we can get to it based on the last census and make sure that ah.. the members of the opposite sex and ah.. also any.. any third sex that might turn up, get ah.. cranked into this. Thank you."

"The gentleman from Sangamon, Repre- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  sentative Londrigan." 171.

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise, too, to oppose this Bill. This is merely another version of the Chicago Bar Association's so-called... so-called merit plan. We have consistently beaten their Bills. And, we should do so once again. There's no such thing as a non-partisan election. Even if there were, they have proven undesirable. The people are not in favor of them. This is an expensive Bill. The people, in voting on the Constitution, told us how they desire to have their judicial election. Let's pass the Bill in the same form that the people have directed us and defeat this Bill once, and hope- fully, for all."

"Representative Carroll, for what pur- pose do you rise, Sir?"

"Mr. Speaker, a point of parliamentary inquiry."

"State your point, Sir."

"I understood the Majority Leader to have asked the Sponsor to hold this Bill for purposes of an Amendment. Has the Sponsor answered that he was going to hold the Bill ah.. for an Amendment of any nature that the Majority Leader had asked."

"Representative Burditt, ah.. did you wish to respond to that question, Sir?"

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous ques- tion."

"The gentleman from Livingston, Repre- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  sentative Hunsicker."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd just like to say this, that I have to be opposed to this Legislation. I have Counties in my District that have already had four elections this year and they're going to have another one in November, and now, if we pile another one on their back. I said last week, we're going to have to make the start down here if we want to freeze real estate taxes at the local level. And, here's a shining example of what we're doing."

"The gentleman from Madison, Repre- sentative Kennedy."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question. I've listened to Lawyers all day long."

"The previous question has been moved. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the gentleman's motion prevails. The gentleman from Cook, Representative Burditt, to close the debate."'

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. to ah.. persuade ah.. a group of politicians as we all are to ah.. pass a Bill that ah.. would provide for a non-partisan election of other politicians is ah.. a little difficult. And, I can understand the feeling that ah.. many of you have. On.. On the other hand, we have had pro- blems with our judiciary in this and other States throughout the Country. And, the Federal System, as you know, is ah.. is a system under which there is a non-partisan selection of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  173. judges. Now, that's an appointment system. And ah.., the gentleman, who spoke ah.., was correct. This is.. is a step towards trying to improve the judiciary in our State by taking the judges out of politics and giving them a chance so that they can decide all of the cases simply on the basis of merit without having to worry about the next election. Ah.. I realize that many of you ah.. have personal friends who are judges who have been elected just as I do by the partisan system. I.. I've got several very close personal friends who have been elected ah.. as judges on a partisan ballot. But, nevertheless, I've spoken to them about it. They certainly understand the merits of this Bill. And ah.. as a measure which ah.. in the long run will take ah.. a major step toward improving the caliber of the judiciary in this State. I.. I encourage your support for this Bill. Thank you very much."

"The question is, 'shall House Bill 3761 pass?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there... Maragos.. 'aye'. Jaffe.. 'aye'. Ewell.. 'aye'. I'm sorry. Maragos wishes to be recorded as 'present'. Lindberg.. 'aye'. Berman.. 'aye'. Ray Welsh.. 'no'. B. B. Wolfe.. 'aye'. On this question, there are 45 'Ayes', 91 'No's', 1 answering 'Present'. And, this Bill having failed to receive the Constitutional majority is hereby declared lost. House Bill 4302."

"House Bill 4302, a Bill for an Act to amend the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  174. 'Election Code'. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Shea."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. as you know, we over-rode the... or we passed House Bill 3623 which was Representative Hart's Bill ah.. to veto the Governor notwithstanding allowing for the partisan election of judges ah.. in the even numbered years so that there are a number of vacancies that should be filled in this selection but we were too late for the primary. House Bill 4302 provides ah.. follows the Law in the Flinn Case 4-11 Illinois that states that 'the Managing Committees shall name the party nominees and put them... or.. or.. name the party nominees and place their names on the ballot for the November Election'. There is no special primary involved here. Ah.. this will be a minimal cost to the taxpayers. And, I'd appreciate the support of the House."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Glass."

"Will the gentleman yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Ah.. Representative Shea, ah.. before the new Constitution was enacted, ah.. what was the method of.. selecting candidates for judicial office?"

"By Party Convention."

"And, under your Bill ah.., I believe, they would be selected by a Managing Committee?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  G. W. Shea: "The.. The nominees to fill primary vacancies would be filled by the Managing Committees. And, that was set out in the Hart Bill and passed overwhelmingly by this House."

"Well, who.. who would be members of the Nominat- ing Committee? Would they not, in fact, be the Committee- men who ah.. constitute the Central Committee in Cook County?"

"Ah.. in.. in.. They would be the County Chair- man of the respective Counties involved in the District Division or Circuit from ah.. from where ah.. the vacancy occurred."

"In other words, the selection would then continue to be made by the Award Committeeman and the Township Com- mitteeman acting as a ah.. as you ah.. would call it here ah.. a Managing Committee."

"Ah.. Brad, only... this would only happen in the event ah.. that for some reason the primary.. the person nominated in the primary say withdrew or for some reason there wouldn't be a primary where they couldn't get on. And, I think, it was set out pretty specifically, as I said in the Flinn Case in 4-11 where the Supreme Court held in that Case that, although the progressive party, the County Clerk in Cook County, refused to take the nominees and place their names on the ballot, the Supreme Court said that they should have been on the ballot. But, we decided this case after the primary so it's up to the Managing Committee to name party's nominees for that election. So, what we're GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  176. doing is providing a method of filling the vacancies in nomination, so that there can be a contested election in November for the vacancies in the Office... or in Judicial Offices."

"Well, would... would that ah.. not also call for the filling of ah.. ah.. vacancies ah.. that exist right now?"

"It would put peoples names on the ballots. Any appointments of judges to actually fill the vacancy of the judge is done by the Supreme Court. And, this Bill would not change that in any manner or means."

"Well, let me ask you this. Have you seen the Attorney General's opinion dated May 1lth, 1972, wherein he's asked whether ah.. the party convention or the party caucus system may continue to be used under the new ah.. Constitution for the filling of vacancies? And ah.., is.. his ah.. opinion, a very detailed opinion, is very specific that that is not permitted by the new Constitution."

"Well, I've read the Attorney General's opinion ah.. and I ah.. very much like some of the things in it. I might disagree with some of them. I think, that this Bill is on foursquare with the Attorney General's opinion. I think, that what we are doing here is making sure that, if for any reason the vacancy occurs in the nomination of either party, that there is a method of filling the vacancy in nomination so that we can have a contested election in Novem- ber Election." L GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  177.

"Well then, what.. why.. why do you say that it doesn't violate the ah.. the opinion? Isn't... Aren't.. Aren't the vacancies, in fact, being filled by a ah.. by party conventions?"

"No.. No.. We're.. We're filling vacancies in nomination not vacancies in office. And, I think, that's the difference between what the Attorney General says and what the import of this Bill is."

"And then, under.. And then, under your Bill, the ah.. Supreme Court would.. would fill all the vacancies?"

"The Supreme Court would continue to fill the vacancy in office. The Party Managing Committee would fill any vacancies in nomination. And so that, these people that they filled the vacancies in nominations could run in a contested election in November and fill the vacancies in Office of Jud.... Judicial Officers so that the appointees of the Supreme Court would not be on for four.. four years but we would have elected public officials in those offices."

"Well, I would like, if I may, just very briefly, I don't want to take up any more time than necessary, Mr. Speaker, but I respectfully disagree with the Sponsor of the Bill. And, I think, that the Attorney General's opinion is.. is clear, that ah.., under the new Constitution, ah.. this is not proper method for nominating any candidates for Judicial Office. The ah.. The Attorney General's opinion is ah.. long and precise and goes to the point that ah.., under no circumstances, may a party convention ah.. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  178. fill ah.. vacancies. And, it seems to me, that is precisely what this Bill calls for. And, I urge a 'no' vote on.. on what would be unconstitutional legislation."

"The gentleman from Peoria, Repre- sentative Day."

"Would the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Shea, I'm.. I'm not quite clear as to the makeup of the Managing Committee. Ah.. we have ah.. five Counties in my Circuit. And, let's say, that there was a vacancy in the nomination for Circuit Judge. Ah.. how would that be filled?"

"At the present time, your... if there's a vacancy in Peoria or the Circuit there for Circuit Judge, the Managing Committee of the Republican Party would be the five County Chairmen with the weighted vote. And, they, with their weighted vote, would name the party nominee, the Republican Party nominee to be placed on the ballot in the November Election. Likewise, the five County Chairmen of the Democratic Party, with the weighted vote, would get to name the Democratic nominee that would go on the ballot so that the vacancy in nomination would be filled by the Managing Committees of the respective parties. Then, when the ballot is printed in November, Mr. A. would be the Re- publican candidate; Mr. B. would be the Democratic candidate. And, the people would select either A. or B. ah.. to fill the unexpired term." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  179.

"In other words, the.. the.. the County Chairman for each political party would ah.. make the.. be the sole and only person who would make the decision as to the nominee for his political party?"

"There is a method where an independent can peti- tion and get on the ballot. And, that's under ah.. Article X of the 'Election Code'."

"The gentleman from Whiteside, Repre- sentative Miller."

"Will the gentleman yield for three very short questions?"

"He indicates he will."

"Ah.. Number one......"

"Kenney, you're too good of a Lawyer to have short questions."

"Representative Shea, isn't there a Senate Bill, that's over here now, that's somewhat similar to your pro- posal?"

"Senate Bill 1409 is in this Chamber that provides for a primary to be held in August. And, I am thinking that if 4302 is Constitutional, which I think it is, it would save the taxpayers about a million and a half to two million dollars."

"Alright.. The second question, ah.. is, does this apply to all judges from the Supreme Court down to Circuit?"

"This.. This method applies to Article VII, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  180. Chapter 62 of the 'Election Code'. And, it provides for the method of filling the vacancy in nomination of any Judicial Officer including the Supreme Court."

"Alright.. The third question is, if this Bill is enacted and the Governor signs it, and say, it becomes Law ah.. the 20th of this month. Does that... Does this mean that then ah.. there will be, if there's vacancies in any of those Judge's Offices, there would be nominating conventions... I'm sorry, there would be the method which you described ah.. precede this summer with the idea that they would be on the ballot in November. Is that correct?"

"Absolutely correct, Sir."

"Alright.. Thank you."

"The gentleman from Henderson, Repre- sentative Neff."

"Sir, I'd like to ask the Sponsor a question, please.'

"He indicates he'll yield."

"Ah.. Gerald, ah.. you speak of this as a Managing Committee. Now, I can't see any difference from this and ah.. the regular ah.. convention type. You ah.. I believe you ah.. answered here ahile back in a question that you would use the weighted vote, the five County Chairmen would meet ah.. that particular District. And ah.., I.. I don't ah.. understand where we get the Managing Committees. It was used when this was ah.. appear to me to be the same as the convention that has been used in the past."

"Ah.. Mr. Neff, the convention was the method of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  181. putting somebody's name on the ballot. The Managing Commit- tee would get to name the nominee only where for some reason the.. the.. there was a vacancy in the party's nominee from the primary. Ah.. if say, your... your party nominated a man from Galesburg to run in your County there for Circuit Judge and he proceeded to drop dead ah.. after the primary but before the General Election, ah.. under the present Law, ah.. he.. his name couldn't be on the ballot and there would no.. be no way to fill that vacancy. And, who, say, the Democratic person would then run unopposed against a vacancy. Ah.. under my Bill, this would allow the party managing committees to fill vacancies in nomination ah.. in case they do occur. I think, it's one of those places in the Law that we found avoid and I'm trying to correct it."

"Thank you."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Capuzi."

"Mr. Speaker, I now move the previous question."

"The gentleman has moved the previous question. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the gentleman's motion prevails. And, the gentleman from Cook, Representative Shea, to close the de- bate."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, thank you very much for listening to this Bill. I'd appreci- ate the support of the House so that we may have partisan election of judges this Fall." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  182.

"The question is, 'shall House Bill 4302 pass?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. The gentleman from Cook, Repre- sentative Simmons, to explain his vote."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, ah.. this.. this Bill, that was amended on May 5th, I believe. Now, I don't have a copy of the Amendment. I wonder if the Sponsor of the Bill would just ah.. quickly indicate what the Amendment did to this Bill?"

"I'm sure, that in his explanation, he.. he could do that, Representative Simmons."

"Ah.. Mr. ah.. Simmons, the Section of the Statute, that I amended, talked about a primary held, I think, in April and.. and I added a new paragraph. And, also ah.. changed the erroneous date of the primary to the present primary date, the third Tuesday in March."

"Thank you."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Duff."

"Mr. Speaker, I rise to explain my vote primarily because I was not able to ask the question that I would have liked to have asked ah.. about the Bill. And so, I suppose I have to stais, in.. instead of questioning, that it appears to be ah.. th this Bill is a cop-out on our responsibility to pass Legisation ah.. in order to fill nominations and.. And, because of that lack of action on the part of the Logislature, then, defer to the political parties for GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  183. process of no certainty. The Bill says, 'a vacancy in nom- ination ah.. arises or occurs because of a failure of the Statutes of this State to provide completely and timely for the nomination of candidates who are otherwise to be nomina- ted pursuit to this article'. And, it seems to me, that all that says is, if we, in the Legislature, don't have the courage, the guts, the intelligence or the fortitude to pass a Bill to do this, then let's cop-out and give them... and give the job this summer, because we haven't done anything yet, to the political parties with no certainties at all that there will be any contest, ah.. with no certainties at all as to what kind of provisions will. be made including particulars such as the fact that a vacancy arises if some- body declines in nomination. A nomination to what, when no primary has been held? I vote 'no'."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Glass."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, now, in explaining my vote, I wish you would listen very carefully to the language of the Attorney General's opinion. I think, if you do, you will recognize that this Bill is clearly unconstitutional. Now, the Attorney General was aksed this specific question. And, I'm quoting. 'By what method, if any, may vacancies in nomin- ation for the Office of Judge in any particular circuit or district be filled?' Now, that is the precise question that we're concerned with with this Bill, vacancies in nomination GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  for the Office of Judge. And, the Attorney General's opinion, and again I'm quoting, is that 'the words, Primary Election, as used the Constitution, is not subject to any definition that would include a procedure for filling nomina- tions by party committee, particularly in view of the conven- tion's obvious version to the naming of candidates by party action'. It's a lengthy opinion. The Attorney General has taken great care to examine this question and comes up on a foursquare that this.. this procedure is not within the new Constitution. Enough Legislation, I submit, has been declared unconstitutional without us submitting a.. and passing a clearly unconstitutional Bill. And, I would urge some of those who are voting 'green' to ah.. to vote against this Bill."

"The gentleman from Peoria, Representa- tive Day."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise to explain my vote because, I think, that this Bill is bad so.. from a policy standpoint. Now, it looks to me like, under this Bill, ah.. two people could decide who the next Judge is going to be. That would be the incum- bent Judge, who.. who is the old favorite, who has been in office for a long time, ah.. decides ah.. at the last minute that he's not going to be a candidate and he withdraws after he's been nominated. All he has to do is make a deal with one person, and that's the County Chairman, and he's going to ah.. to be able to name his successor in office. And, I GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  think, this is bad. I.. I.. I can't understand why we shouldn't go back to a party convention and ah.. allow the precinct committeemen, who have been elected by the people to represent them in their party, to make this selection ah.. just as we do now. It seems to me that that's a much more democratic and a much safer way of proceedings. I think, this Bill is also unconstitutional from the stand- point ah., the things that Representative Glass as said. And ah.., I don't believe, that we're going to solve this problem in a fair way to the satisfaction of the people of this State by passing this Bill."

"Have all voted who wish? Take the record. On this question, there are 110 'Ayes', 35 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 4650."

"House Bill 4650, an Act to provide a supple- mental appropriation to the Department of Aeronautics and to direct and transfer of money between funds in the State Treasury. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Sangamon, Repre- sentative Jones."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is the supplemental appropriation for the Revolving Fund... or ah.. for the transportation of.. of State Officials and it has been approved by the Appropriations Committee. And, I'd appreciate your affirmative vote."

"Is there any discussion? The ques- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  tion is, 'shall House Bill 4650 pass?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there are 154 'Ayes', no 'Nays'.. Juckett.. 'aye', and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 4504."

"House Bill 4504, an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Illinois State Scholarship Commission. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Lee, Representa- tive Shapiro."

"Ah.. Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. House Bill 4504 makes the appropriation for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Illinois State Scholarship Commission in the total amount of $59,315,000. Just as a little interesting sideline, this is an increase of approximately $14,000,000 over a year ago. This year approximately 70,000 students will be granted ah.. scholarships under 'The Commission Act' out of a total number of 110,000 applicants. And, I would urge a favora- ble vote on this Bill."

"Is there any discussion? The ques- tion is, 'shall House Bill 4504 pass?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there are 148 'Ayes! and no 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  passed. House Bill 4682." 187.

"House Bill 4682, an Act to provide for a publ record of the results of elections relating to home rule status and ending certain Acts in connection therewith. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Morgan, Representa- tive Rose."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Bill provides that following a referenda of the part of a Municipality or a County to either opt in or opt out of home rule, hat the appropriate election official will noti` fy the Secretary of State's Office as to the result of that election. The reason for this is very simple. It is so that.. Since home rule affects businesses and individuals through- out the State, which may be doing business, for example, in more than one community and more than one County, it provides a simple source of information ah.. so that interested people can determine finally whether or not a ah.. municipality or county does have home rule."

"Is there any discussion? If not, the question is, 'shall House Bill 4682 pass?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the record. Phil Collins.. 'aye'. O'Brien.. 'aye'. On this question, there are 147 'Ayes', no Nays'. And, this Bill having received the Con- stitutional majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 4610." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  188.

"House Bill 4610, an Act to amend Section 301 and 1501 of the 'Illinois Income Tax Act'. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from DuPage, Representa- tive Philip."

"Ah... Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 4610 amends the 'Illinois Income Tax Law' and straights out of the inequities. Whether you live in Illinois for one month or eleven months, of course, you pay for one full year's tax. What this does is two things. First, the defines residency. Secondly, it allows for the proportion- ment share of income tax to be paid ah.. on a.... It allows it to be paid for..... If you live in the State for one month, you could pay it for one month. If you live in the State two months, you can pay it for two months, etc. It's endorsed by the Taxpayer's Federation and, of course, it's agreed on by the Department of Revenue."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Maragos."

"Will the Sponsor yield to a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Philip, is there a fiscal note on this as to what revenue loss would be ah.. lost by the State of Illinois?"

"No, there is not."

"Is there any experience factor by which we could find a basis?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  189.

"I didn't understand the question."

"Is there any ah.. experience factor basis of how many residents ah.. only live here part time of the year?"

"No."

"The third question is....."

"Ah.. what... what it does, it allows it to prorate income tax. If you live here for six months, why should you have to pay a full year? It would seem....."

"What is ah... The point... The next question is, what if you earn your money from the State of Illinois all year, and you were an Iowa resident, but you earned your money in Illinois? Is there any provision that says that this should not be... that this should also be prorated no matter where you earn your income? Does that Bill cover that point?"

"Not to my knowledge."

"Is there further discus... The gentle- man from Cook, Representative Berman."

"Would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Ah.. Pate, would this Bill apply to a person that lives ah.. during ah.. six months of the year in Illi- nois, has his business here, and then, goes another six months down in Florida ah.. and maintains ah.. residence in Florida also? Would they only pay fifty percent of the in- come tax in Illinois?"

"If they lived in Illinois for a half a year, they GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  190. would pay half of a year's income tax in Illinois. When they establish their residency in Illinois, become a.. a resident of this State, they would be taxed from then on."

"Well, my specific question refers people, many of them have substantial incomes from Illinois businesses, but they spend six months of the year also in Florida. What affect would this Bill have on them?"

"If they're residents. It only affects them if they're residents of Illinois."

"Well, these people, let's say, that they vote here, but they still spend six months of the year in Florida or ah.. in Palm Springs....."

"If they're... they're a resident of Illinois, they'd be taxed as a resident of Illinois."

"For the whole year?"

"Right."

"This Bill wouldn't affect them or give them ah.. a.. a tax cut?"

"If.. If they're legal residents of Illinois, and I don't care if they would spend eleven months in Florida, if this is their legal residents, they would pay one full year."

"Thank you."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive R. Hoffman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. This Bill goes a long way in clarifying one of the inequities GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  that find with people that are transferring into the State and ah.. leaving the State. This Bill would affect people who have possibly transferred in from a different State ah. because of job obligations where they are only here three months toward the end of the year. The tax would be applica- ble for the three months they are here. It would also apply to those that are transferred out where they are residents and are earning income from the State for possibly four months and then transferred out. They would pay the applicable tax for four months It's a good Bill. And, I urge your sup- port."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Carroll."

"Would the Sponsor yield to a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Pate, I understand in the Digest, it says that it will be... 'it applies to tax years beginning after December 31st, 1970'. Does that mean that they're going to go back and apply these to '71 income taxes?"

"That is absolutely correct."

"How are they going to go back on income taxes that have already been paid?"

"Well, I suppose, they would have to issue those people, ah.. that have only been a resident for a part year, a refund."

"And, you.... Have you...."

"And, quite frankly, I certainly think that they're CENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  entitled to it."

"Well, that was not the Law at the time that they had filed their returns or made their statements that were in the returns. Have you talked to the Department about that?"

"Yes, I have and they have it worked out mechanically."

"And, they've worked out a retroactive effective- ness?"

"Yes."

"Is there further discussion? The gentleman wish to close the debate? Representative ah.. The gentleman from Lake, Representative Murphy."

"Ah.. I'd like to ask Representative ah.. Philip a question."

"He indicates he'll yield."

"Ah.. Pate, you've got me confused on this now. Going back to Representative Berman's question, if I own a business in this State, and I take my domicile to, we'll say, Florida, you mean, I wouldn't have to pay income tax on the business income that I was deriving from this State because I was not a resident of this State?"

"You know, I really can't answer that. I ah.. That.. I.. I.. I would say this, that ah...it would seem to me that. if you were a legal resident of Illinois, and you moveu down to Florida, that ah.. you would have to pay income tax on that income you derived here in Illinois, if it was one month, two months, three months." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  193.

"No... You.. You're not answering it yet. Because, I'm saying that I become a permanent resident of Florida, but I still have a business in the State of Illinois, yielding an income, but I am no longer a resident of Illinois, do I have to pay tax on that income?"

"Gee! I really don't know the answer to that.. that ah.. question."

"Because that could cause a tremendous loss. If I've got a business here, making a hundred thousand, you'd better believe that I'm going to move across the line into Wisconsin."

"I.. I would think you'd... there'd be some type of ah.. taxation that you would be responsible for."

"I don't believe ah.. that we should vote on ah.. a Bill that you're saying, 'I think'. I mean, I think, we should know."

"Well, I could certainly hold.. hold the Bill on Third Reading and.. and ah.. get that answered for ya."

"Because right now, for instance, I have a business in Wisconsin, and I live in Illinois, I have to pay on that business in Wisconsin."

"You'd pay... Oh! I.. I would think that would hold true in Illinois, but I'm not sure. What.. What.. What we're trying to do with this Bill, Murph, if a person has only lived in Illinois for two months, it wouldn't seem to me, that they ought to pay one year.. full year income tax." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  194.

"I.. I'm in agreement with you if it's only... if you're just talking about a man that comes into Illinois and gets a salary, he should only pay for it on the length of time that he's here. I agree with that portion of it. But, if it's the other... ah.. if the other part of it is true, I don't agree."

"Well,..."

"The gentleman from Knox, Representa- tive McMaster."

"Will the Sponsor yield to a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Pate, I know what you're trying to get at in this Bill. I'm a little bit concerned as ah.. Representa- tive Murphy is. We have people, who ah.. live in Florida, say, for six months of the year, five months of the year, but they do ah.. file a residency or.. in Florida in order to take advantage of the ah.. homestead exemption down there which comes to some $5,000, I believe, for homestead. And, I think, ah.. we need to be sure whether this person will be ah.. ah.. exempted from paying Illinois Income Tax or not under this Bill, Pate. I understand what you're after and, I think, your thought is good. But, I do want to be sure that we know what we're getting into."

"Is there further discussion? The gentleman from McLean, Representative Hall "

"Ah.. would the Sponsor yield for a question? Ah.. Pate, your only ah.. concerned here with income earned out GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  of the State and not State-earned income. Is that correct?"

"That's correct."

"Well, I think, this is ah.. a good Bill. I don't... I don't... I don't think, that those, who are ah.. question- ing ah.. ah.. the possibility of a loophole, ah. have justification for those fears. I think, this applies to people who move into this State, and we're not questioning the income they earn in this State ah.. during that time when they're here. We're... We're questioning... We're going to eliminate the tax on that portion of income that was earned out of the State prio.... in the same year prior to the time that they moved here. So, in that... ah.. in that... If that's what your Bill does, and I think it is, ah.. then I ah.. think it's a good Bill and I don't think... I don't think that anyone could evade the point ah.. ah. evade ah.. income taxes by ah.. simply ah.. virtue of living part of the time out of State."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Richard Walsh."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, just ah.. briefly to respond to some of the questions that have been raised. As has been indicated, this Bill just pertains to part time residency to those coming into the State during the taxable year, making a permanent domicile in Illinois or those leaving the State during the tavable year, making their permanent domicile in some other State. It does relate to someone who is a permanent domiciliary of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  196. Illinois who may spend six, eight, ten, eleven months in Florida, Europe or anywhere else nor does it pertain to some- one who has a business in Illinois and they spend much of the month or the year somewhere else or the converse of Representative Murphy's situation, who has a business in Illinois, but resides in Wisconsin. Ah.. that situation is not covered by this Bill. In Representative Murphy's situation, the person would pay tax in Illinois on his Illi- nois-earned income from his Illinois business. It just per- tains to the person, coming into the State, making himself a permanent domiciliary of Illinois or leaving the State, making himself a permanent domiciliary of another State. I think, it's a good Bill. It seems to me that we passed a comparable Bill earlier in the Session. I think, it deserves the support of the House."

"The gentleman from McLean, Representa-. tive Bradley."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I was just going to echo those sentiments of Repre- sentative Walsh because, I believe, the question that Repre- sentative Murphy brings up, is not germane to this particular Bill. It doesn't apply at all. It's a good piece of Legis- lation and I'm going to support it."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Duff."

"Ah.. would the gentleman yield to one question, please?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  197.

"He indicates he will."

"Ah.. Pate, what about the corporate person who might move out of the State? Would it ah.. prorate the ah.. ah.. income for the year over the months or would it ah.. allocate ah.. according to what formula?"

"Ah.. Representative Duff, I.. I really don't know. As I say, what we're trying to do is make this income tax as equitable as possible. That, if a person lives in Illinois for three months, that's all he should pay. Now, if he has income from another State or something, I.. we're not trying to affect that at all. And, I'm not sure of what the Law is on that point."

"Ah.. ah.. thank you."

"The gentleman from Peoria, Representa- tive Tuerk."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, I think, what the Sponsor is attempting to do here, as he says, make the Income Tax Law equitable for all. Let me cite you an example of a man, who moved into Illinois, he was transferred from Ohio to Peoria. He came to Peoria, December 15, 1971. Under the way the Income Tax Law was being administered, he was liable for income for the whole year in the State of Illinois. And, this is certainly inequitable ah.. and this Bill speaks to that problem most specifically. And, I would urge passage of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Bureau, Representat tive Barry." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  198.

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. I don't believe we have any problem here. I don't think, there's any loophole because it's my recollection of the Illi- nois Income Tax Law that firstly, it's charged against resi- dents of Illinois earning monies in Illinois. And secondly, it's charged against earnings in Illinois even by non- residents with reciprocal credits to States that have income tax. So, therefore, I see no opportunity for a loophole. And, I think, it's a darn good Bill and we ought to vote for it without wasting any more time."

"Is there further discussion? If not, the gentleman from DuPage, Representative Philip, to close the debate."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, as you know, this has been one of the great inequities of our new State Income Tax. And what it does, it does two things. It defines residency and allows the proration of State Income Tax from the time you become a resident. And, I move your favorable vote."

"The question is, 'shall House Bill 4610 pass?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the record. Conolly.. 'aye'. Duff.. 'aye'. Collins.. 'aye'. And, on this question, there are 142 'Ayes', 1 'Nay' and this Bill having the Constitutional majority is hereby de- clared passed. House Bill 4129."

"House Bill 4129, a Bill for an Act to make GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  199. an appropriation for the expenses of the Pollution Control Board. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Burditt."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is the regular appropriation for the Pollu- tion Control Board for the next ah.. fiscal year. The total amount of the appropriation is $952,300. The Bill was very carefully considered ah.. by the Appropriations Committee, as you all know. And, the various amounts for the ah.. dif- ferent ah.. breakdown items in the budget ah.. were carefully changed and reviewed after ah.. consideration by the Commit- tee. Ah.. as you all know, the Pollution Control Board is the Agency within the State Government which sets the rules and regulations under which our environment is controlled. And second, they're the ones that sit as the judges in the rule-making cases. The.. In the.. In the ah.. ah.. judicial cases. They do not serve as the inspector or as the enforcing... enforcing Agency. That's the Environmental Protection Agency. Now, you will recall, that on Second Reading, a number of questions were asked, particularly, about such things as Court Reporters. Ah.. I have personally spoken to ah.. the Department of Personnel, to Bill Boise. I have an extensive letter from him on his suggestions for how ah.. they could possibly help in this matter. I have spoken a number of times to ah.. Chairman David Curry, the Chairman of the Board. He has a number of suggestions. He, in turn, as GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  200. spoken to Judge Gulley as Jerry Shea suggested. He's talked to Mr. Hartnik, who ah.. was interested but did not bid and ah.. all things considered, I'm personally satisfied that, while the work that the Board did with Court Reporters in the past has not been to the very best ah.. ah.. in the very best handling. It will be in the future. And, I therefore, solicit your support for ah.. House Bill 14.. 4129."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Simmons."

"Ah.. would the Sponsor yield to a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Was there an Amendment No. 2 to this Bill? And, if so, when was it adopted?"

"Ah.. Amendment No. 2 was adopted today. The Bill had been on Second Reading ah.. previous day. And, it was ah.. it went back to Second Reading today for the pur- poses of an Amendment."

"What.. What does it do?"

"Ah.. The ah.. Amendment No. 2 adds $25,000 to the Court Reporting Costs. The reason is, is that the Senate Amendment... The Senate, just today, ah.. took $25,000 off of the Deficiency Appropriation for Court Reporting Costs because they've been taking so long over there to get the Deficiency Appropriation through, that the Pollution Control Board is not going to be able to spend that $25,000 for hear- ings during the current fiscal year. Therefore, they're going to have to have more hearings next fiscal year. And, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  201. the $25,000 ah.. was added into this Bill so they can have the hearings next year."

"Thank you."

"The gentleman from Macon, Representa tive Borchers."

"Mr. Speaker and Fellow Members of the House, I well realize that this is going to pass. I well realize that it's my obligation, in.. like the rest of us, to try to control the pollution of our rivers, our air, and the noise, etc., within reason. I'm going to vote 'no', not because I'm not in full agreement with what they're doing, but to try to show them that their aspects of the way they handle their jobs, ah.. that ah.. leave a good deal of question and doubt as to their reasonableness, their attitudes towards the people of this State. Ah.. at the present time, yes, it leaves us..., as Representative Blades says, leaves a lot to be desired. I want to call attention to them and to you that they are arrogant. They don't answer our industry on municipalities ah.. quickly, sometimes, not at all. They do not give, at the present time, equal judgement. I know of a case in Decatur of ah.. a gentleman by the name of Rhoades, who is ah..., I've mentioned this before, who ah.. ah.. was fined $1,500. He was filling his own land and using no garbage, filling his own land for the best interest of our community in the future. This didn't matter to them at all. They're mostly from Chicago, five.. four out of five, from Chicago who make all of the decisions. The same time, and GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  202. Mrs. Day of Fairfield, was charged. was fined $150. for the identical offense except with one exception, she was taking garbage. Our Kustada Company has been refused per- mission to fill with broken rock, brick, etc., a gully that they want to recover for the future use of their plant unless they cover it with six inches of dirt. Tell me why, a rule must be that you've got to cover a piece of concrete flagrant with six inches of dirt every night? Right now, they're giving away new rules for landfills, for example. One of these rules shows the logic and the realizm of which these gentleman operate. The rule says, I should have brought it and quoted verbatim. But, the rule says that any refuge must be com... composed into a two foot layer. I ask you, how in the heck can you compose a four foot refrigerator into a two foot layer and bury it? You can't do it. Now, that is an actual rule of the new rules that is supposedly going into effect July the 1st. They're putting, as many of the bureaucrats of this Country have been doing in our Federal and our State Government, they're putting an intol... intolerable burden upon the ordinary citizen in relation to the rules and regulations, the reports they have to make. For example, this new rule that goes into effect that says that every.. every ah.. truck that comes into a landfill has to be weighed. Who cares how much ah.. weight goes into a landfill that is going to be buried? And, how important is this to be discussedah.. in twenty or thirty years? And, who's going to dig into those records to see it ah.. what it GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  may be? It just ah.. It's just ridiculous some of the things that they do. Now, I'm not attacking the ideas they're doing. I'm merely pointing out, here and now, that a lot of these gentleman are unreasonable in their rules, the regulations and the burden they're putting on the people. Let alone, for the last example of idiocy, frankly, of the burning of leaves in small towns and the denial of a permit. Just last week, Springfield was denied the right to burn leaves. I guess... Alright.. I guess my time is about up. Is that correct?"

"It's rapidly approaching, Sir."

"So, I merely want to point out to you, some of us ought to vote 'no' to let them know that we're keeping an eye on them to be more realistic and more reasonable in what they're doing cause they.. I know of two factories, that have been run out of Illinois, by this Environmental Protection Agency."

"Is there further discussion? Does the gentleman from Cook, Representative Burditt, wish to close the debate? The question is, 'shall House Bill 4129 pass?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all... The gentleman from Christian, Representative Tipsword."

"Mr. Speaker, I'd merely like to explain my vote. I think, you notice that I'm voting 'green' and I'm voting for this appropriation. I have previously criticized this Board in a ah.. in some ah.. degree that Representative GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS MOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  204, Borchers has.. has explained some of the problems that I have had with the Board. I do not want to kill the Board off. I think, it has a valuable function to perform. And, I hope, that the criticism, that has been leveled on the floor of this House and been made known to it, that it will take to heart and realize that this is a one year appropriation. And, at least, some of us will be back here next year to see that they... whether or not they have towed the mark and have.. have become an Agency that really performs the functions that we intended in a practical and.. and sane way ah.. at the time that we passed the Legislation which created them. There's much that they need to do and much that they must do. And, we only hope that this year they will do it in a much more ah.. meaningful a much less arrogant and a much more practical fashion so that we can accomplish what we intended in passing the Legislation and they can be a more meaningful Board to the people of the State of Illinois."

"Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there are 154 'Ayes', 4 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 4131. Representative Borchers, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"

"Vote.. And, I wasn't permitted to do it."

"Well, I'm sorry, Sir."

"I wanted to explain my vote and I wasn't permitted to do it. Alright.. I'll get it over with right quick. I was going to merely ask a few of you gentlemen, with a few GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  205. brave hearts, not to defeat this Bill, but let them keep an... but let them know that we're keeping an eye on them. We should have had a few more 'red' lights up there just for the good of the State and the people."

"House.... Record Representative Simmons as voting 'no'. You got a vote, Webber. House Bill 4131."

"House Bill 4131, an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Institute for Environmental Quality. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Burditt."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this.. this is the ah.. annual appropriation for the Institute for Environmental Quality. Ah.. you'll recall, that this is the third Agency that operates in this field of Pollution Control. The Institute for Environmental Quality if the research and development arm of the ah.. three Agencies under the direction of Mike Schneider. This man has been doing an excellent job for the last year. Ah.. as originally introduced, the appropriation was two million dollars, one million from the General Revenue Fund and one million from the ah.. Public Utilities Fund. Ah.. this Bill was also very carefully considered ah.. by the ah... Committee ah.. and ah.. at the present time, the.. the final figure on the Bill is a million, ah.. 552,100. And, I'd appreciate your support for the Bill." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  206.

"Is there any discussion? The ques- tion is, 'shall House Bill 4131 pass?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. The gentleman from Macon, Representative Borchers."

"In explaining my vote, I want to point out that this is a group that are making the new rules where you have to bury, any material in a landfill, in a two foot layer. Now this is ah.., again, the height of intelligence and reason. And, again, I would like to ask, how you can put a two... a four foot or six foot refrigerator in a two foot area and bury it?"

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Lechowicz, to explain his vote."

"In response to the previous speaker, this Agency can not make any rules. They don't have any powers."

"Have all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there are 153 'Ayes', 1 'Nay' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 4139."

"House Bill 4139, an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Environmental Pro- tection Agency. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Burditt."

"Mr. Speaker... Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentle- men of the House, the Environmental Protection Agency is the Agency that does the inspecting and is the enforcing Agency GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  207. that brings the cases ah.. before the Pollution Control Board. The Bill, as originally introduced, had an appropriation of nine million, 733,800. Ah.. and, after careful review and consideration by the Appropriations Committee and coopera- tion on both sides of the aisle, ah.. that amount ah.. was reduced so that the total amount of.. from the General Revenue Fund for ah.. this year is six million, 859,900 ah.. plus the amount that comes from the U.S. Public Health Fund. So ah... I'd be glad to answer any questions about it. I'm sure that you're well aware of the efficiencies that ah.. Bill Blazer, our former Member, has brought to this Agency. Ah.. I'd appreciate ycur support for this Bill."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Palmer."

"Ah.. If ah.. Representative Burditt will answer a question or two?"

"He indicates he will."

"George, what about the amount of money that they have for surveillance? Ah.. how many people or ah.. how many inspectors do you have?"

"I don't know the exact number of inspectors. And, of course, it's increasing because the Agency is just getting under way. I.. I do know that it's broken down geo- graphically so that ah.. the inspectors cover different Areas of both the State and difference Areas in terms ah.. of the kinds of pollutions that are controlled. The Bill.. The Bill ah.. covers air and water pollution which are the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  208. two main ones. But, it also covers solid waves and noise and radiation. Although, radiation is under question because of a Federal ruling."

"Well then, you would not know whether or not they have more inspectors this ah.., say, for this fiscal ah.. or are appropriating more for ah... inspectors this fiscal year than the... than the present... the next fiscal year than the present year?"

"There will be... There... This does contemplate more inspectors than last year, Romie. But, I'm sorry, I can't tell you exactly how many more. I'd be glad to get you that answer and give it to you after the vote is taken."

"Well, I.. I.. I would say this, I'll vote for the Bill. But, one of the problems, apparently, that they have here, is a lack of surveillance over, and they probably the lock.. the like of... the lack of quality of those people who do inspect ah.. certain Areas. Ah.. this is certainly true in the landfill Area."

"The gentleman from Macon, Representa- tive Borchers."

"Mr. Speaker, in relation to the lack of quality and ah.. of inspectors, ah.. 1970 in December.. ah.. in Decem- ber, I was called by a landfill in my Area ah.. with a com- plaint. I found that the same complaint was made at the Champaign City Landfill ah.. by the operators at the Champaign City Landfill. This complaint was simple. The inspector, a gentleman by the name of Larimore represented the Environ- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  209. mental Agency came into to inspect. It was fourteen degrees below zero at both of these places. The men operating were found to be in their ah.. shelter by the stove. This Lari- more informed these gentlemen that they were supposed to be on their bulldozers no matter how cold it was, operating and waiting for someone to come in with a load to be deposited. So ah.., I couldn't believe that any one man ah.. would ah.. be so ah.. hard-hearted, frankly, representing a State Agency that they'd tell another... other men that they had to be on fourteen degrees below zero on a running bulldozer. So, I checked it out with Mr. Clarke of the Environmental Protection Agency. He confirmed the story. He said, 'yes', that's true. We don't care how cold it is, twenty degrees below zero, they got to be on the bulldozer'. I say, this is very poor judgement and poor exercise of leadership on the part of people under that ah.. that Department. The Mayor of Collins- ville, just last November, had a young man come into his office. The young man had pictures of twenty-three homes and people. They were burning leaves. They rep... His was a representative, this young man, for the Environmental Protection Agency, one of their inspectors. He said, 'I have twenty-three citations for you to ah.. process in Collins- ville, Illinois. I want you to take action'. And, the Mayor said, 'What.. What are they?'. He said, 'Well, I've gone around and taken the pictures of these people breaking the Law. We expect you to do something about it'. The Mayor was horrified. He took one look at the pictures. He said, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  'I'll do something about it, if you give them to me'. He took the pictures and.. and the citations. And, in front of the representative of the Environmental Protection Agency, he threw them on the floor of the... of the City Hall. Now, I think, this is another example of very poor judgement on the part of the leadership of the Environmental Protection Agency. So, I'm going to vote a symbolic 'no', although we need some of the things they do."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Harold Washington."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I.. I have no quarrel with the ah.. Environmental Protection Agency in terms of what they're supposed to be doing nor with the Environmental Institute nor with the Pollution Board. The thing that concerns me about all three of these entities is their hiring and promotion policies. I look at the Pollution Board and I see a total of twenty-four employees, only two black females in relatively subservient positions. Ah.. I look at the Environmental Institute, that have seven- teen employees, and coincidently, none of them are black. But, the horrifying figures in the.. the Environmental Pro- tection Agency, where they have a total of four hundred and twenty-six employees. Now, I have some interesting figures here from the Legislative Council. I think, in light of the fact that the Governor has instituted what he calls a marvel employment program, in light of the fact that this Assembly is dedicated to the proposition that there shall be no GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  211. discrimination to hiring an promoting of people on race, color or creed, I think, in light of that fact, propounded by the amount of money they're asking, we should know some- thing about these figures. For example, in the Director's Office, a total of twenty-four employees, no black. In the Administration Service, total number of twenty-nine employees, no black. In the Accounting Division, eight employees, one oriental, no black. In the Legal Service, I assume these are all Lawyers, forty-eight total employees, no black, no minorities, no women, Genie, Giddy. In the Laboratory, fifty- nine employees, no black, no orientals. In the Sanitary Engineering Department, a total of a hundred and fifty employees, a hundred and ten male, forty females, Genie and Giddy, two blacks out of that whole total. In the Land Pollution Control Division, thirty employees, twenty-six male, four females, no orientals, and it follows as night does day, no black. What is this all about? Now, these are relatively new Institutions, all of which have been put to- gether and funded by the General Assembly since the Governor came out with his mandate that shall be no discrimination in the recruitment training and upgrading of people based on race, color and creed. And, here we have three Agencies spending millions of millions of dollars of the taxpayers' money violating, violating the mandate, not only of the Governor, but of the General Assembly and also the Constitution of the State. I would like to have some answers to this. At this point, I dare say that we can't stop this Bill and GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  212. I don't want to stop anything that's anti-pollution. But, I certainly don't want to be a part of anything that's perpetuating institutional racism. And, I'm certain that the Sponsor of that Bill doesn't want to be put in that position I would like to have some answers. I think, everybody in here is entitled to some answers. I think, Senate Partee is going to demand some answers when this Bill goes into the Senate. And if I know Senator Partee as well as, I think, I know him, he's going to get some answers. So, I think, we should get the answers now to save that problem because Senator Partee is a much, much more harsher man than you or me. Can we have those answers?"

"Does the gentleman wish to respond to that rhetorical question?"

"I'd be delighted to, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, because that's the kind of ques- tion that certainly can not go without an answer. Ah.. I don't know exactly how many ah.. blacks there are. Ah.. Representative Epton asked me how many Jews there were. And, Ted Meyer, just asked me how many Catholics there were. And ah.., Henry Hyde is always interested in women. He asked me how many women there. were. I mean, Mrs. Dyer asked me how many women there were. Ah.. and Henry was interested in the third sex on a Bill a little while ago. Ah.. the fact ah.. ah.., Harold, is that Bill Blazer, who is the Head of this Agency, when he was a Member of this House, ah.. was one of the fairest ah.. and one of the ah.. chief sponsors, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  213. as you will recall, of the Open Occupancy Legislation, which was ah.. one of the hottest issues we had during Bill's Session. Ah.. I can assure you, from my own personal know- ledge of Bill Blazer, that there isn't going to be the slightest kind of discrimination in.. in any kind ah.. in the ah.. in the Environmental Protection Agency. Ah.. Bill is an extremely fair-minded guy. And, there's no way that you're going to find any discrimination over there."

"The gentleman from Stark, Mr. Nowlan."

"Mr. Speaker, in further response to Representa- tive Washington, I think, it ah.. should be pointed out, and probably, realized by Representative Washington that ah.. this Administration in the past three years has increased as a percentage of total State Employees the number of blacks from five percent of the total number employed to twelve percent. And, it has tripled the number of blacks in high- ranking, grade 17 and above positions in the State of Illi- nois and has appointed the first black Director of a Code Department in the State of Illinois. It's unfortunate ah.. but it's the nature of educational and cultural system to this point, that the Environmental Protection Agency positions are highly technical ah.. positions which require ah.. a great educational and technical skill which we, as a society, have not yet provided blacks and other minority groups. And, it is there where we must direct our attention. And, I believe, the record of this Administration across the Board in its commitment to the hiring of minority groups is with- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  out parallel in the history of the State of Illinois."

"Now, let's ah.. Representative Washington, I thought, you had concluded your remarks when asked Burditt a question. So, you've.. you've got some more time left. Do you wish that time right now? Proceed, Sir."

"I.. I just want to make it abundantly clear that I'm not accusing Bill Blazer of being discriminatory. I know Bill Blazer very well and that's why I'm so much disturbed about it just because I know that he doesn't countenance discrimination, tacet or otherwise. But, I'm faced with the horrible facts. All of these lucrative jobs, having been given out in the past two years, and the black brothers are getting none of them and very few of the black sisters or the orientals and very few females and polish, they tell me. I.. I want some answers to that. I think, Bill Blazer is the person that can give them."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Ewell."

"Mr. ah.. Would the Sponsor ah.. ah.. yield to a question?"

"Ah.. Where is the Sponsor?"

"Well,...."

"Here he comes.. Here he comes... I was just getting the answers, Mr. Speaker."

"Well, unfortunately, ah.. we have too many answers and that's our problem. I ah.. wonder if the Sponsor would amiable and sort of take this Bill out of the record GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  215. until tomorrow so maybe we could just a little discussion with the ah. Director, etc., some other time and we'd have no problem? And, I think, that ah.. the fine record that the ah.. Governor is setting would be kept in order and everybody would be happy."

"Ah.. Ray, ah.. let me say, I would much rather not do that for a lot of reasons, primarily, because we're so late in the Session. And, this question, we can certa inly get aired in the Senate. Ah.. let me say, that I have also spoken to the Director, and among others, the Supervisor of the DuPage River Basin ah.. is a black. That's one of the fastest growing and one of the most important Areas in the State. And, it is directly under the supervision of a new black supervisor. Ah.. there are ah.. other blacks who are in the Agency. And this ah.. And, you weren't here, Ray, when Bill Blazer was here, but ah.. if you'd had been, I'm sure you would have shared Harold Washington's and my views on Bill Blazer personally. He's not going to countenance anything like that, as Harold Washington says."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Hyde."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this State has a mechanism setup to ah.. give relief to ah.. anybody who's been ah.. discriminated against because of their race, because of their color, because of their religion. And: I would submit that the distinguished gentle- man from Cook, who raised this point, ought to compile a list GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  216. however long or short it is, of applicants who applied for these posts with this Agency and who were qualified for the job and who were denied their job because of their race. And, I will go with him to the appropriate Agency to see that relief... proper relief is accorded as I'm sure will the Sponsor... the Chief Sponsor of this Bill. It doesn't help the discussion to list jobs and to say that there are no blacks or there are no orientals. I think, the revelant statistic would be, how many met the specifications for the job, the qualifications and applied for the job, wanted the job and didn't get it because of their race. Then, we have something to talk about. Absent that information, the rest is ah.. ah.. simply muddying the waters."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Barnes."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, in all deference to the Sponsor of this Bill and to my learned Colleague, who just spoke on the other side of the aisle, I think, the facts are clear. Now here, the Governor has been pounding his employment program and its fine record in this field by ah.. through other Agencies and throught the ah.. public media. And here, we have a Department that has been fully under his administration, that gave birth, if you will, under his administration. Clearly, here is a Depart- ment that is going against the grain of everything that he has said his administration is doing. Now, in all respect to the Sponsor of this Bill, I think, it's incoherent to see GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  217. that the Director's Office has twenty-four employees, of some I imagine is typists or secretaries. Yet, none of them are of a minority race, not one. Now, here it be the people, I imagine, if we are going about our business in some quarters, telling private employers, if you will, that they should live up to etiquettes for equal rights for everyone. And here, the Governor, the highest office in the land, the highest office in this State, if you will, has said that this is the policy his administration is caring for. Yet, an Agency, that gave birth to his administration, is not doing the very thing that they expounding that they are saying that they are doing. In the Legal Department, you have some forty- eight employees. I assume that some of those are Lawyers and it.. it.. it's unbehooving to me that in forty-eight positions in the Legal Department, you could not find one black qualified Lawyer. Now, something is wrong. Something is extremely wrong when something like this exists. If we are not going to have a commitment from the administration of Public Agencies, a commitment from the Governor of this State right down to each and everyone of the people that live in this State, how can we expect that any help can come from any quarters? I've heard so many Representatives stand up in these halls and holler about the problems that we have with welfare. Well, I wonder why the problem with welfare has not increased, ten times four, when we do not have the commitment from the Governor of this State to insure that an Agency, that was born under his administration, would of GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  had to of passed practice employment rules. I just can't see it. Now, if that is the case, I think, we're all kidding ourselves and we should all go home and start all over again. I think, that this Agency needs to take ah.. we need to take a hard look at this Agency. I think, that there are things that should be sturdier. I believe, that, in all respect to the Sponsor, that he should pull this Bill out of the record, hold it for a day or so and let us try to talk and come up with some type of solution here."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Capuzi."

"Ah.. Ladies and Gentlemen and Mr. Ah.. and Members of the House, I think, I have the solution to this problem. I am a Member of the Minority Group Representation ah.. Committee here. And, It's my understanding that this Department will come under our ah.. Committee ah.. and ah.. a thorough investigation will be made. Of course, that's all ah.. entirely up to ah.. Mr. Epton and the rest of the Members of this Committee. And, I think, they'll all enjoin with me to try to find a solution here or ah.. so that we can straighten this whole matter out."

"The gentleman from Cook, Representa- tive Caldwell."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I recall that four years ago, ah.. the Governor made a commitment that ah.. Minority Groups, including sex, would be given every opportunity to seek and be upgraded higher than upgraded in State Government 218. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  positions. I would ah.. say to the Sponsor of this Bill that we are asking a little of nothing asking him to hold this Bill, at this time, so that we can discuss this matter. I would suggest that the Governor said to a group of eighteen black legislators that he had two task forces, one to canvass the high schools of this State, urging Minority Groups to seek employment. Another, would do so at the College level. It was interesting to me that Representative Nowlan indicated ah.. hinted, implied that blacks were not capable. And, therefore, they would have to ah.. prepare themselves in order to qualify for the types of jobs that seem to ah.. be manned in this particular Agency. I merely want to suggest that the creation of this Agency, implementation of it, with as the same old pattern of a lack of equality of opportunity indicates to me that we are continuing our system of sus- taining of what I'd like to call ah.. institutional racism. Now, I, personally, am not blaming the Governor or not blaming ah..ah.. my Colleagues here on the floor who are not black. I blame me.. myself and my fellow black brothers. I believe, that what we need to do, is to get right down to the kernel of this thing and.. and deal with it. And, if we sit here like ah.. dummies and let this type of thing continue as it... we have some figures on practically every Department in Government here and the pattern is the same. And, I, personally, have.. have become a little sick and tired of canvassing these halls throughout these buildings here in the State complex and seeing seas of white faces and very GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  220. few blacks. We have some token blacks in practically every Department here ah.. except probably the ah.. parts of the Secretary of State's Office. And, I think, that it's time for all of us to come face to face with the actual facts and determine, once and for all, if we are going to continue to tolerate that or are we going to change it. And, I don't believe, that the black Members of this ah.. Assembly ah.. will ah. ah. will be re-elected if we continue to sit here on our seats and do nothing about it. So, I'm suggesting to ah.. the.. the Sponsor of this Bill to.., if he would, ah.. hold it and.. and let us ah.. discuss ah.. with ah.. the.. the people who are going to mann this brand-new Department. You see, if we are going to do as the administra- tion promised us, ah.. be fair and hire a proportionate number of ah.. minority groups, we would have done it. We wouldn't have to be here on the floor asking for you to do this, at this time. I think, that that's a little enought to request. I believe, that we ought to get down to some serious talk, ah.. the two days that we're going to be here or whatever time, and.. and spend the rest of this Session trying to get this matter straightened out for the best interest of everybody in this State."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. J. J. Wolf."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I move the previous question."

"All those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and ah.. we're back to the main GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  question. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Burditt, to close."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. if I thought that there was the slightest ques- tion in this Agency of all Agencies in the State, ah.. of any discrimination, I would be very happy to comply with the gentleman's request that this Bill be held. Ah.. I'd be happy to spend ah.. hours of debate, but not one second for tribute to a point that, I think, is completely poorly taken against an Agency which ah.. has been under the supervision of one of the fairest men that I've ever known in my life. And, when he was a Member of this House, he showed it by being a chief sponsor and a very active sponsor of all kinds of Bills which were designed to eliminate discriminations of any kind at any State Agency or any Public Body of any kind. So ah.., with ah.. having said that, ah.. those of you, who knew Bill Blazer when he was here, will certainly concur, I'm sure, in everything I've said about him. And, I.. I don't know why this point was raised. It has never been discussed with me ah.. or ah.. with Mr. Blazer or before any of the Committee Hearings which this Bill has gone through ah.. in the ah.. in the House. It's been through two Committees. Ah.. I think, it's a little late to raise the question and ah.. I'm sure that Mr. Blazer will have ah.. complete numbers and everything else when the Bill is called for ah.. a hearing in the Senate. But ah.., with all due respect to the gentleman's request, I.. I would like to have a vote on the Bill today because we are so late in the Ses- GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  sion, because, I know, that this point is not well taken. And, I can only point out that there wasn't a single name mentioned of anyone who is qualified who applied for a job and was not given a job. Unless, we get to the specifics in an issue like this, there's no way that we can answer the questions. So ah.., Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I ah.. urge you to vote in favor of House Bill 4139."

"The gentleman ah.. from ah.. Cook, Mr. Lechowicz, ah.. for what purpose do you rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, I was hoping that the Sponsor would reconsider his position. It's absolutely true, exactly what he's stated as far as the two hearings that this Bill went through and both... and the thorough hearing that it had in the Appropriations Committee. But, in turn, to pro- mote the tranquillity and peacefulness of this House, I would hope that the Sponsor would pull this Bill. If you want ah.. I you want ah.. If you want ah.. to take a vote, take it. But, take.. take some advise."

"Alright.. Ah.. ah.. the question is, 'shall House Bill 4139 pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. The gentleman ah.. from Cook, Mr. R. L. Thompson."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I've listened to the discussions here and I've heard one of the speakers, the Sponsor of this Bill, with all due respect to him say, 'it's a little late'. Yes, it is late maybe to pull this Bill. It has been late down through the GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  223 years and it's later now than you think. And, I heard another speaker say, 'that we think we can rectify these things'. We're too far down the road now to start think- ing about these things. We want to know these things are going to be rectified. And, I don't think, it's ever too late to do good. And, the reason that I'm going to vote 'no' on this Bill is because I'm not satisfied with the explana- tion that I've heard. And, we have met with the Governor on matters similar to this last year and he made several promises to us. If he's not going to keep his promises, I think, something should be done about it. And, I'll vote 'no' on this issue. Thank you."

"The gentleman from Union, Mr. Choate."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, ah.. I have not heard all of the discussion on this particular piece of Legislation as ah.. the Members sitting around me well knows. Ah.. I have ah.. come back on the floor while there's some, very meaningful ah.. attempts to question certain practices, as I understand it, that has been ah. brought about by the Agency. Ah.. I think, that it would be no more than fair to ah.. allow these gentlemen an opportunity to ask the questions which they desire to ask. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I'm going to vote 'present' on this piece of Legis- lation and hope that it is held over until such time as these Members do have an opportunity to ask the questions that they desire to have an answer to. And, I'll vote 'present'." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Hon. W. Robert Blair: "Alright.. Record the gentleman as 'present'. And ah.., the gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Hyde."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I ah.. hope and I will await, with great interest, a submission of a list of those blacks, that applied for jobs for which they were qualified and for which they were turned down because of their race. And unless, that list is forthcoming, then, I think, we can determine the sincerity with which this argument has been put forward. And, I think, they ought to have as much time as possible to come up with that list. We're now in the middle of June. This Bill was filed in April and this issue was first raised when we're on Third Reading. And now, the game is to lay off and to bring the Legislative Process to a halt. Fine. If that's the way the other side of the aisle wishes to conduct themselves on this and other Legislation, it is their responsibility. It is not ours. We're fulfilling our responsibility. But, if there has been invidious discrimination, generalities won't do. The general charges won't do. I think, Mr. Blazer should be held accountable for the job that was denied the black girl or the black man because of his race. And, take as much time, gentlemen and ladies on the other side of the aisle, to come up with that list. But, you'd better come up with that list."

"The gentleman from ah.. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Davis." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  225.

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, since the distinguished Majority Leader wants me to come up with a list, I thought, I'd just dig into my file here on F.E.P.C. I'm going to come up with a list now. We're not accusing Mr. Blazer, satan as Harold has put it. We're not accusing him. In fact, we're not accusing any of them. But, what's that mans name who say, 'eternal vigilance is the price of liberty'?" We want to be vigilant in this matter. Certainly, I felt proud when the other day, in the Appropria- tions Committee, a young lady came in there and she was definitely black and she headed the Department of Family and Children Planning. This was certainly progress. And, I agreed with it and I congratulated his Excellency, the Governor, on it. But, I'm still going to be vigilant. Now, let me give you a few figures since you want a list. There were one thousand, seven hundred and eighty-seven cases filed in the Fair Employment Practice Committee. And, do you know what happened? We had to return eight hundred and thirty- five of those cases...."

"One.. One.. One moment, please. For what purpose does the gentleman from Cook, Mr. J. J. Wolf, rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, I wonder if we might have the time light put on for explanation?"

"I'm sorry. I've got it on here."

"This won't take but a second. I just want ah.. want ah.. want ah.. to enlighten you. Eight hundred and GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  thirty-five of those cases were turned... returned because, you know, we have pleaded with this House and pleaded with it and the House had passed it. But, we've pleaded with the Senate and the Senate has either ignored it or defeated it. We've pleaded for initiatory powers. We don't want to go in and ah... have a man go in and say, 'my boss discriminated against me', because, we know, that he's going to be fired the next month. We want the Commission to be able to institute some of these charges. And, the Commission in- vestigated nine hundred and thirty-five of these one thousand, seven hundred and eighty-seven cases and they had to return eight hundred and thirty-five of them. That's why we want to be vigilant and here's your list."

"The gentleman ah.. from Cook, Mr. Duff."

"Mr. Speaker, I am dismayed by the apparent sincerity of some of the comments that seem to be being made, at this time. Here, we have one of the most important items facing the people of Illinois, the problem of a clean environment. And then, we have people stand up, people who many of us in this House have had repertoire with and have tried to help in the past, stand up at a political point in time, towards the final days of the Legislature, make unfounded charges of unsubstituted facts, come about to try to say that a Governor, who has accomplished some of the greatest records in the area of the lack of discrimination in the history of the State of Illinois, is not doing what he should be doing relative to a minute percentage of the empl... of the employees GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  of this State. A mere point four percent. And, any statisti- cal study of the employement of the State of Illinois will point out, not only that he has rapidly increased the employ- ment of blacks in the State of Illinois, but also, that there are many parts of State Government which would have a larger percentage than the total related to the population. And, if these persons, at this point in time, would suggest that the Governor and the other parts of State Agency should dismiss those blacks which are in Agencies where there is larger than a percentage of the population, then if they would not take that position, they should not, at this time, say that a mere point four percent of the.. of the percentage of State Employees indicates, in any way, lack of action on the part of a Governor who has been doing a remarkable job in this Area."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Ewell."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, ah.. it's rather regretful that ah.. the gentleman should ask for statistics because we have an awfull wealth of statistics. I would like to state, first of all, in this explanation that we're not accusing the Governor. The Governor stands at the top of the list of improvements. And, when it comes to employment, I will never be bipartisan. Yes, it's true. The Governor's Office has fifteen percent males black-employed and ten percent females. He leads every other State Agency and that's a fact. We will not deny the facts. However, there are Agencies in this State, and we can take a look at GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  228. them, and we're talking about their personal staffs now, we're not talking about the Code Departments, that do not have such fine records. And, in the past, I have not been so reminisced that I would not attach the Secretary of State's Office. And, I'll say that the Secretary of State's Office, at this time, has one of the lowest proportions. Now, we have here a complete compilation of all the statistical data of all those Agencies. We shall give credit where credit is due. But, when criticism is necessary, it will come forth because we are no longer content to be a silent majority."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. ah.. Burditt."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, ah.. my own personal opinion that this argument, particularly, in regard to an Agency of which Bill Blazer is the head, is about as specious as any argument that I've ever heard on the floor of the House. But, my own personal opinion, obviously, doesn't count for something like this. Ah.. it's the opinion of the majority of the Members of this House, ah.. since we have no Democratic votes whatsoever, we can not pass this Bill today, at least, without any Demo- cratic votes, ah.. I request the leave of the House to take the Bill out of the record."

"Alright.. Does the gentleman have leave? Alright.. We'll.. Alright.. We'll... We'll take it out of the record and ah.. for what purpose does ah.. does GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  229. the gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Harold Washington, rise?" H. Washington: Speaker." "I rise on a point of personal privilege, Mr. Hon. W. Robert Blair:

"Alright.. State your point." "Ah..that illusions me as to the motives of the people who were propounding the proposition that rapid discrimination apparently exists in these three Departments. And, since I introduced the issue, I assume, that those re- marks were directed to me. And, I want to respond to that very briefly by saying two things. One, the figures, which Representative Barnes and I read off, just came to us today. So, we are timely. We responded as quickly as we could. The Bill was on Third Reading and we moved immediately to bring it to the attention of the House what we considered to be discrimination. Secondly, and more importantly, Representa- tive Hyde has thrown down a guantlet, but he threw it at the wrong place. We're not going to give you any figures, Mr. Hyde. It is not incumbent upon us to give you any figures as to what blacks applied and what females applied, what orientals applied and what was the disposition. We do not owe you that. The State of Illinois has an affirmative action program and policy in reference to recruitment, an affirmative, positive recruitment from every Agency in State Government that has been enunciated by the Governor and that has added to the entire administration I understood. So, you'll get no figures from us. What we will say to you is simply this, we have presented a prima facie case, a damn GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  good one and we want some answers to it."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Hyde."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I don't wish to prolong this discussion, but I'm not surprised... I'm not surprised at the remarks of the distinguished gentleman, who just spoke. But, of course, I didn't want figures, I want names. If.. If they charge discrimination, they can't say there's a prima facie case made because a certain percentage of employees are not members of one race or one religion or one ethnic group. That won't wash. You have to show, in my judgement, you have to show me a black person, you have to show me a Chicuano, you have to show me a Chinese, you have to show me a Catholic, you have to show me a Jew, that that Agency re- fused to hire because of their blackness, because of their Jewishness, because of some other reason extraneous to their qualifications. Until you do that, Sir, you haven't made a prima facie case and you're just talking in the wind."

"For what purpose does the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Barnes, rise?"

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, on a point of personal privilege."

"State your point."

"My point is, ah.. during the debate, was alluded to that some felonious figures had been given out. And, since I was the one that received these figures, I would like to make it crystal clear that these figures came from the Legislative Council here. Now, if the figures are felonious GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  231. they are felonious because they came from the Research Arm of this Legislature. And, I want to only add that to the debate. And, if what it is that you want, any one of you can get this. They, from their.. The Agency itself gave these figures to that Agency. And, we asked for them and they gave them to me. Now, I can't blame a person up here. But, according to these figures, out of four hundred and twenty-six employees in that brand-new two year old Department, only seventeen are black and two orientals. And, you can't discount that."

"Alright.. House Bill 4452. The ah.. gentleman from Henderson, Mr. Neff."

"House Bill 4452, an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the State Highway Safety Program, direct.... and to direct the transfer of money be- tween funds in the State Treasury. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from Henderson, Mr. Neff.'

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 4452 is the appropriation from the Highway Safety Fund for the State Highway Safety Program for the fiscal year beginning July the 1st, 1972. Now ah.. through an agreement, why ah.., from the Leaders on both sides ah.. and the Appropriations Committee, an Amendment was put on this which reduced the appropriation from $15,055,300 to ah.. $13,430..33 33 and 200. Ah.. in other words, a ah.. the original appropriation has been reduced $1,175,900. Ah. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  232. And ah. In this, Mr. Speaker, it would be a total of $4,400,000 would be transferred from the Road Fund and the Driver's Educational Fund into the Highway Safety Fund as the State's share in this jointly funded program."

"Alright.. Is there further discussion? The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 155 'Ayes', 2 'Nays' and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. Resolu- tions. Well ah.., there. there's some concurrences."

"House Joint Resolution #140, Concurrence on the ah.. Senate Amendment..."

"This is ah ah. simply a clarification of ah.. last week's adjournment resolution. The gentleman from ah.. Yeah.. Cook, Mr. Hyde."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, this ah. Resolution really has already been adopted, I presume. But ah.., it's been clarified and it just says that we're going to come into ah. today at 11:00 o'clock. So, having done that, ah.. the.. I. I.. The problem is with the Senate ah.. adjournment. So, in any event, ah.. I move we adopt House Joint Resolution #140."

"Alright.. The ah.. motion is that the House concur in Senate Amendment to H.J.R. #4... #140. All those in favor say 'aye', the opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the House concurs. Alright.. Now, one moment for.. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  We've got to go back and pick up ah.. one Bill on or two... Is is one or two? On Second Reading. Ah.. House Bill 4674.

"House Bill 4674, a Bill for an Act in rela- tion to State Comptroller. Second Reading of the Bill. Ah. One Committee Amendment. Amend House Bill 4674 on Page 1, andsoforth."

"The gentleman from Union, Mr. Choate."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I'm going to move, first, that ah.. the Committee Amendment No. 1 be tabled. And, I'm going to advise the House that the reason that I'm doing this is because I have another Amendment that I'm going to offer now. And, the Committee Amendment is included in the much larger Amendment that I'm going to offer. And, the reason that I'm offering the Amendment from the floor to replace the Committee Amendment is because it's at the suggestion of the Administration, the Bureau of the Budget, if that I offered. ah. suggestion of the Auditor of Public Accounts, the State Treasurer's Office. And, the peoples who was on the Committee, appointed by the Governor, and the Auditor to study the implementation of the Auditor's Office. So, therefore, Mr. Speaker, I would move that would table Committee Amendment No. 1."

"Alright.. The gentleman offers and moves the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 1 and then moves to table that Amendment. All those... Does the gentleman have leave to table? Hearing no objection, ah.. Committee Amendment No. 1 will be tabled ah.. and ah.. ah.. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  234. Are there further Committee Amendments?"

"Amendment No. 2, Choate, amend House Bill 4674 on Page 1, Line 13, by deleting 'fiscal officer', andsoforth."

"Ah.. the gentleman from Union, Mr. Choate."

"Ah.. yes, Mr. Speaker. Now, this is the Amend- ment that I wish to move the adoption of, which includes ah.. Committee Amendment No. 1. And, this Amendment simply brings about technical changes and clarifications as far as the Bill is concerned, at the suggestion of the Bureau of the Budget, the Auditor of Public Accounts and the Blue Ribbon Committee, that was appointed by the Governor and the Auditor. And, I would move, Mr. Speaker, for the adoption of this Amendment."

"Is there any discussion? The question is on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor will say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. 4675."

"House Bill 4675, a Bill for an Act trans- ferring functions from the Auditor of Public Accounts to the State Comptroller. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."

"Any Amendments from the floor? Third Reading. Now, Resolutions."

"Ah.. House Resolution....." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  235.

"Alright.. We've got... Wait a minute. We've got an Introduction of a Bill. Read the Bill."

"Ah.. House Bill ah.. 4685, ah.. Palmer, et.al. Appropriates $553,600 to the Department of Local Governmental Affairs. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 4686, Duff, et.al. Amends 'Unified Code of Corrections'. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 4687, makes an appro- priation for the salary of the State Comptroller. First Reading of the Bill."

"The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Palmer."

"Mr. Speaker, ah.. and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, in connection in House Bill 4685, which has to do with the State's Attorney Appropriation Bill, that part that is to be paid for by the State. Ah.. I now move you that the provisions of the appropriate rule ah.. 38, I believe it is, be suspended so that this Bill can be ah.. can go to Second Reading without reference to Committee. This has been cleared with the other side."

"Alright.. Is there... Does the gentle- man have leave ah.. Alright.. Hearing no objection, then the rule will be suspended. And, that Bill will be advanced to the order of Second Reading without reference. Ah.. Resolu- tions."

"House Resolution... House Resolution 700, Rayson, et.al. House Resolution 701, Lindberg, et.al. House Resolution 702, Hirschfeld. House Resolution 703, Hirschfeld. House Resolution 704, Walters, et.al. House Resolution 705, GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  236. Tuerk, et.al. House Resolution 706, Colitz, et.al. House Resolution 707, Houlihan, et.al. House Resolution 708, Capuzi, et.al. House Resolution 709, Schisler. House Resolu- tion 710, Pierce, et.al. House Resolution 711, Rose, et.al. House Resolution 712, Hanahan, et.al. House Resolution 713, Otis Collins, et.al. House Resolution 714, Waddell, et.al. House Resolution... House Joint Resolution 141, Timothy Simms. House Joint Resolution 143, Lindberg, et.al. Ah.. House Joint Resolution 142, Conolly, et.al."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Hyde."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the Agreed Resolutions. House Joint Resolution 141 directs the Illinois Legislative Investigating Commission ah.. to investigate the solicitation and disbursal practices and general operational activities of all Law Enforcement Associations ah. in Illinois. House Joint Resolution 142, ah.. is an expansion of House Joint Resolution 100 of the Seventy-Sixth General Assembly which permits the Waukegan Port Authority to use an additional twenty-eight acres for recreational land in conjunction with its port facilities. House Resolution. House Joint Resolution 143 directs the Legislative Investigating Commission ah.. to study all aspects of Dram Shop Insurance. House Resolution ah.. 700, ah.. asks.. directs the Illinois Institute for Environmental Quality to study the ways in which to preserve drinking water re- sources. House Resolution 701, congratulates the Crystal Lake Jaycees. House Resolution 702, ah. commends Mrs. Ruth Allen of Homer, Illinois for forty-three years of good GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  teaching. House Resolution 703, ah.. congratulates Mrs. Wayne Bender ah.. upon her retirement from teaching. House Resolution 704 congratulates the Alton Senior Athletic Team during the past year. House Resolution 705, congratulates William Blackie upon his retirement as Chairman of the Board of the Caterpillar Tractor Company. House Resolution ah.. 706, ah.. commends the Israeli Government for augmenting the security personnel around Tel Aviv Airport. House Resolu- tion 707, ah.. congratulates Miss Lois Jean Green on her selection as 'Miss Black Joliet of 1972'. House Resolution 708, ah. expresses our deep sorrow upon the death of former Captain Joseph C. Granata, of the former Chicago Park District Police and the brother of own ah.. Pete Granata. House Resolution 709, ah. congratulates Dr. Everett Coleman of Canton, Illinois, upon recent selection as 'Alumnus of the Year' by the University of Illinois School of Medicine. House Resolution 710, ah.. memorializes the Superintendent of Public Instruction to submit a circular to the School Children of Illinois to determine their preference as to the choice of an Official State Dog. Ah.. I think, that it should be pointed out that Representative Pierce is the Chief Sponsor of that one. House Resolution 711, is a memorial ah.. ah.. upon the death of Mrs. Beaulah L. Runkel of Jacksonville, Illinois. House Resolution 712 congratulates John Desmond upon his retirement ah.. from the Chicago... Presidency of the Chicago Teachers Union. House Resolution 713, espresses our sorrow upon the death of Walter Parrish, an Assistant "GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  State's Attorney of Cook County. House Resolution 714, congratulates Carl J. Meyer ah.., chief engineer of Radio Station WGN upon his retirement. I now move ah.. We have another one? Oh! Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I would like to with- draw House Joint Resolution 142 from the list of Agreed Resolutions. That was the one concerning the Port Authority in Waukegan because I have learned that it is not an Agreed Resolution. And so, that is to be removed from my motion."

"For what purpose does the gentleman from Cook, ah.. Mr. or... Cook, Mr. Schlickman, rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, as I heard the brief description of these Agreed Bills, I understood and do understand that two of those Resolu- tions are Joint Resolutions directing the Legislative In- vestigating Commission to engage in investigations. Now, if these are of a substantive nature and absent evidence of demonstrable emergency, I object to the suspension of the rules without ref... and the advancement.. or the adoption of these without referral to Committee."

"Well, I think, that's a reasonable re- quest. Ah.. Why don't. Yeah... We're in agreement to take those out ah.. and have them go to Committee. The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Henss."

"Weil, I.. I suppose that it has now been taken out. I was going to ask that the one Resolution about ah.. an investigation of Dram Shop Insurance be read in its entirety. Is that one of them which will.. will be taken GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  out of the ah. of the list?"

"The gentleman from ah.. ah. Cook, Mr. Schlickman, the two that you requested, one was the Dram Shop, what was the other one?"

"One was Dram Shop and the other was investi- gation of ah.. Law Enforcement Officials that engage in the solicitation of funds, I believe, as I heard them."

"Alright.. Ah... Does that take care of your problem? Alright.. For what purpose does the gentleman from ah.. McHenry, Mr. Lindberg, rise?"

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, ah.. Representative Matijevich and I are the joint Sponsors of 143 calling for the Legisla- tive Investigating Commission to look into the problems of the Dram Shop ah.. ah. Insurance Field. And, my concern ah.. about taking it out is that it may not get a hearing in what little time is left ah.. I think, if anybody has any questions, perhaps, when it gets over to the Senate, ah.. it could be entertained. But, it's just a matter that just came to my attention and I want to try and get it ah.. ah.. through ah.. so that they can get working on it."

"Well, I'll assign it to your Committee ah.. if that would facilitate getting it heard."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, could I then move to sus- pend the appropriate rule so that we can hear ah.. ah.. this Resolution on ah.. ah. right right now?"

"Well, I don't think, that's a proper motion. Ah.. a Member has requested that that ah.. ah.. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINO15 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  240. Resolutions in the.. in the Agreed Resolutions ah.. come out Ah.. and that seems ah.. a fair request. And ah.., you've made a request so you can get a hearing and I'm trying to facilitate your getting a hearing as quick as possible. And I'll put it in your Committee so that you can call it as quickly as possible. The gentleman from Bureau, Mr. Barry."

"I was just going to suggest, Mr. Speaker, that any Resolutions, perhaps, should have that same fair treatment."

"That's... That's fine. I'll ah.. I'll ah.. assign ah.. ah., if we take those out, they would be in the category of further Resolutions. And, on the one that Mr. Lindberg... Yeah... What numbers do you want? Al- right.. I'll assign 143.... Is that a H.J.R.? Alright.. I'll assign that to Judiciary II. And, wait a minute now. The gentleman from McHenry, Mr. Lindberg, asked leave to. suspend the provisions of Rule 17 so he can have that heard in his Committee...."

"After adjournment tomorrow."

"Ah.. immediately following adjournment tomorrow. Is there objection? Hearing none, then ah.. leave is given ah.. for that purpose. Now, Mr. Simms has ah.. 141 And ah..,... And ah.., we'll assign that to Exec. And ah... he requests the same leave to have ah.. it heard. And now, we'll ah.. recognize the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett, as to when he's going to have a meeting."

"What time do you have ah.. planned for adjourn- ment tomorrow, Mr. Speaker?" GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  241.

"Prior to the Soft Ball Game."

"We have most of the Stars on Executive Committee. So ah.., are we going in early tomorrow morning, Mr. Speaker?"

"Well ah.. ah... Appropriations is going to meet at nine. Ah.. we're going in at 10:30."

"Well then, Executive Committee will meet at 10:00 o'clock tomorrow morning in Room M-5."

"Well,... Alright.. There's not a con- flict. So ah.., then the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett, asked leave to waive the provisions of Rule 17 so that that Resolution may be heard in Exec. tomorrow morning at 10:00 o'clock. Okay.. Now, Mr. Lindberg, for what purpose do you rise?" pose.

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, then I would like to change the Judiciary II Meeting to 10:00 o'clock for the same pur- Ah.. we can meet in any ah.... We'll.."

"Alright then, there's not a conflict with Appropriations on that. So, we'll have that at 10:00, but what about the rooms now? In your usual Meeting Room?"

"Our usual Meeting Room is the floor. Are you going to be on the floor, Dave? Well, would you assign it to Exec. then, Mr. Speaker, and we'll handle.. hendle them both in Executive?"

"That's fine. Alright.. I'll rerefer 143 from Judiciary II to Exec. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett, ah.. asked suspensions of the Rules so now that that Resolution can be heard in Exec. Is there objection? Hearing.. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  242 Hearing none, ah. it will be set. Now then, Conolly. The gentleman from Lake, Mr. Conolly, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Yes.. Since one ah.. House Joint Resolution 142 is taken out of the Agreed List, ah.. could I have the same treatment of that? It beats setting up another Committee Meeting by somebody else."

"Well, Exec., you mean?"

"Well, instead of trying to get Conservation or somebody else ah.. Meeting. If you'd let me call a meeting of ah.. John Henry Klein's Committee, I'd be more than glad to do it."

"Well, my inclination is that this would Alright.. The place that this ah.. Resolution would be referred would be to Conservation. Ah.. however, the Chairman is not on the floor. So, you can't ah.. have that situation for a hearing tomorrow. Now, if you'd rather wait and try to have that arranged for immediately after adjournment tomorrow, we'll see if we can work that out. Otherwise, we'll ask... we could have the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett, handle it in Exec. Now, what does the gentleman from Lake, Mr. Conolly, ah.. desire?"

"I think, since the meeting is already being held under the ah.., it would be convenient to have it done the first thing tomorrow morning so they can handle it tomorrow."

"Alright.."

"I just as soon have it put in Exec." GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Hon. W. Robert Blair: "Alright.. 243. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett, asks ah.. leave to suspend the provisions of Rule 17 so that this Resolution may also be heard ah.. tomorrow ah.. at 10:00 o'clock in Exec. Is there objection? Hearing none, that ah.. ah. Rule is suspended. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I had an objection to the Dog Resolution. These Resolutions have, in the past, when they were the fish and the tree and the other ones before that have always gone to Exec. And, I would appreciate if that was taken out of the list and also sent to Executive."

"Alright now, we're down to the 710, House Resolution 710. And ah.., there has been objection raised by a Member concerning having that heard. And, I have not called for the vote on the Agreed Resolutions yet. So now, does the gentleman, that's the Chief Sponsor, Mr. Pierce, have a comment?"

"Mr. Speaker, does that mean that all cat and dog Bills go to the Executive Committee? I would like to ah.., at the appropriate time, move to suspend ah. Rule 53a for the immediate consideration of an adoption of ah.. this House Resolution."

"Well now, wait a minute. You want to take it out of the Agreed.... You don't object to taking it out of the Agreed Resolutions, but you are going to object to its going to Committee. Correct? I.. I mean, you want to move then ah.. to suspend so you can have it heard now. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  Is that right? Or do you want to have it heard in Exec. tomorrow?"

"Oh! We'll... We'll hear it in Exec."

"Okay.. Ah.. now, the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett, asked leave to suspend the provisions of Rule 17 so that that Resolution may also be heard in Exec. tomorrow morning at 10:00. Is there objection? Hearing none, ah.. then we'll put that one in Exec. Are there any Agreed Resolutions left to vote on? The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Hyde."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I regret to ah.. notice that, apparently, the Agreed Resolution process has broken down along with the Agreed Bill ah.. process on Workmen's Compensa- tion. And next, I suppose, the Consent Calendar will be in jeopardy. But, in any event, I now move ah ah. for adop- tion of those few Agreed Resolutions left, Mr. Speaker."

"Alright ah.. All those in favor of the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Agreed Resolutions are adopted. Are there further Resolutions? Oh! There are no further ones. Alright now, the gentle.... There are a couple of requests here before we wind up. The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Duff, has a request."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, ah.. I request, and have talked to the Leadership on both sides, that House Bill 4686 ah.. be read on First Reading and moved to Second without reference to Committee. The Bill is ah.. There were some errors GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  245. found by the Reference. Bureau in the drafting of the Code of Corrections. And, the Bill was brought to me and to Mr. Londrigan, who are Members of the Council, by... they were brought to us by the Council for the evaluation of criminal defendants and we need to move it through ah.. as fast as we can. They are merely errors."

"Alright.. Ah.. does the gentleman have leave ah.. to advance ah.. that Bill to the order of Second Reading without reference to Committee? Hearing no objection, then we will so advance that Bill. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Col.. Phil Collins."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, ah.. I ask leave to suspend the provisions of Rule 17 so that ah.. Senate Bill ah.. 1569 may be heard in the House Committee on Elections Thursday Morning at 9:00 A.M. in 212. I've talked to the Leadership on both sides of the aisle."

"Is there objection? No. Alright... Ah.. then, hearing none, the Bill will... the provisions of Rule 17 will be suspended so that this Bill may be set for hearing. No ah... Set for hearing. Thursday... Thursday at 9:00 o'clock. 9:00 Α.Μ. in Room 212. The gentleman from Cook, ah. Mr. Regner."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would just like to announce that the Appropriations Committee that was to meet this afternoon......."

"Well, wait.. Wait.. Wait.. Wait... Wait a minute. Now, let's back up. The Clerk.. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES The Clerk didn't  246 quite keep up there. On Duff's Bill, ah.. we advanced that to Second without reference to Committee. Then, on the re- quest of Mr. Collins, we set that Election Code for hearing on Thursday at 9:00 Α.Μ. Leave was given for that purpose. What's the number of the Bill, Phil? 1569. Senate Bill 1569. And now, we're to Mr. Regner for a re... for an announcement

"Ah.. the House Appropriations Committee, that was to meet this afternoon, will meet tomorrow morning at 9;00 A.M. on the ah.. House Floor."

"The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Shea."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, ah. House.. or Senate Bill 1318 ah.., I hope, we got straightened out. Originally, they had Collin's name on as a Sponsor and I'd like it to be listed with my name. And, I'm wondering if I could get that Bill put on Second Reading without reference to Committee. It's a four hundred page Billah.. from the Reference Bureau which corrects ah.. some of the items. Senate Bill 1318. I'm asking if it can go to Second Reading without reference to a Committee? Perhaps, it's not on the Calendar. It came over from the Senate, but I don't know if it went to a Commit- tee or not."

"Yes, the problem... That... That one will take overnight. No, I know where it is. It's being held because it's a non-exempt Bill. And ah.., all Bills, that come over from the Senate ah.. that are in the category of being non-exempt ah.. since that motion that was made to table everything, ah.. we.. we are in.. we think, they probably GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES  247. copped the ones flying over ah.. ah.. at the same time. We hope to get it resolved over night. And then, let's enter- tain your.. your request tomorrow."

"Alright.."

"Okay.. It was tabled? Oh yeah! It was.. The Clerk's Office has checked on it. It was tabled. Alright.. Ah.. The gentleman from Hyde, ah.. Clyde, or Cook Mr. Hyde."

"Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I now move that the House stand adjourned until the hour of 10:30 A.M. tomorrow morning."

"All those in favor say 'aye', the opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the House stands adjourned." ADJOURNMENT AT 7:45 O'CLOCK P.Μ. 6/13/72 mes. GENERAL ASSEMBLY STATE OF ILLINOIS HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES