Illinois House Floor Debate — March 26, 1981

"The House will be in order. The Members will please be in their seats. The House will be led in prayer today by Father Eugene Costa. Father."

"Let us pray. Lord God, look kindly on us who put our trust in You. Bless us and keep us from all harm. Free us from anxiety and from all evil. Teach us what is right and good. Strengthen us to walk always in Your ways. Amen."

"We will be led in...by the Pledge today by Representative Domico."

"I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which is stands, one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Take the record will you, Mr. Clerk? Being the...162 Members answering the Roll, a quorum of the House is present. For what purpose do you arise, Representative Katz? Mr. Clerk, will you put Representative Katz on the Roll Call? No, he's here. Introduction and First Reading of House Bills."

"House Bill 746, Virginia Frederick, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Public Community College Act, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 747, McClain-McCormick-et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Pension Code, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 748, Dick Kelly-Kosinski, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act relating to acquisition, possession and transfer of firearms and firearm ammunition, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 749, Birkinbine, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the School Code, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 750, Leverenz et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act in relationship. 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 to construction, operation, regulation, and maintenance of a system of toll highways, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 751, Leverenz et al, a Bill for an Act to repeal the authority of the Risk Management Revolving Fund, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 752, Leverenz, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Vehicle Code, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 753, Neff, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the planning by the Department of Transportation, First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 754, Leverenz et al, a Bill for an Act to change the frequency of certain audits required by the Auditor General, First Reading of the Bill."

"On the Calendar on page two under the Order of House Bills Second Reading appears House Bill 101, Representative Abramson. Out of the record. 104, Representative Abramson, out of the record. 103, Representative Hallock, out of the record. 104, Representative Abramson, out of the record. 203, Representative Hallock... Representative Hallock, do you want your Bill called? Out of the record. House Bill 256, Representative Wolf. Run the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 256, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code, Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"

"No Motions filed."

"Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. House Bill 274, Representative Huskey. House Bill 274, Representative. Out of the record. House Bill 284, Representative Stiehl, out of the record. House Bill 354, Representative Sandquist, out of the record. House Bill 366, Representative Greiman, out of 2  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 the record. House Bill 368, Representative Robbins. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 368, a Bill for an Act to amend Nursing Home Care Reform Act, Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."

"Any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"

"No Motions filed."

"Any Amendments from the floor?"

"Floor Amendment #2, Bowman-Bower, amends House Bill 368 on page two and so forth."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman."

"Thank you, Ladies and Gentlemen and Members of the House. Amendment #2 simply provides that no one shall be involuntarily admitted to a nursing home unless there are proper court procedures. And...it has the support of the Bill Sponsor, Representative Robbins. I know of no opposition to it. It is being supported by Sandra 'Nei' of the Advocacy Commission, and I just learned from Carla Fisher this morning that the Care Givers are supporting it...or at least have no problem with it. I know of no opposition, and I ask and affirmative vote. Mr. Speaker, I know of no opposition, and I ask an affirmative vote."

"The Gentleman has moved the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 368. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye'; all opposed by saying 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted."

"Thank you."

"Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. On the Calendar on page two under the Order of House Bills Third Reading appears House Bill 28, Representative Cullerton. The Gentleman in the...is the Gentleman on the floor? Out of the record. On page 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 two of the Calendar under House Bills Third Reading Short Debate Calendar appears House Bill 73, Representative Bradley. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 73, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code, Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman...Representative Bradley."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 73 addresses itself to the problem of a...automobile or truck being leased from the leasing company and clarifies finally who is responsible for a motor vehicle violation such as a parking violation. We just want to clarify it that the person who leases the automobile or the truck is the one responsible for...to the local authorities for the ticket. This is, of course, on Short Debate. It came out of the Committee unanimously. I see no problem with the Bill, and I would like to have the support of the House for House Bill 73."

"Is there any...any discussion? Is he...the question is 'Shall House Bill 73 pass?'. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', and all those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 144 voting 'aye', one voting 'no', and three voting 'present', and this Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. On the Calendar on page two under House Bills Third Reading appears House Bill 83, Representative Flinn. Is the Gentleman on the floor? Out of the record. House Bill 89, Representative Deuster, out of the record. House Bill 103, Representative Abramson, out of the record. House Bill 93, Representative Deuster. Read the Bill."

"House Bill. 93, a Bill for an Act to amend the Inheritance and Transfer Tax Law, Third Reading of the Bill." 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981.

"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Deuster."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 93 which is before you, I think, is a very good Bill. What it does simply is to amend th inheritance tax so that stepchildren will be treated the same way as children with respect to the inheritance tax exemption. Stepchildren as we know are often just as close as natural or adopted children, and I might say that even though this Bill will re...involve a small revenue loss to the state, that is another way of saying tax relief for the people. The Attorney General supports this Bill. The cost to the state would be about $500,000. On Second Reading this was discussed at some length with respect to Amendment #2 which defines stepchild to mean either a natural or adopted child of the decedent's spouse, and that includes a spouse who had died before the decedent or predeceased the decedent as well as a child of a former spouse. I would be happy to answer any questions. I think it is an excellent Bill which reflects the fact that many times we do have stepchildren as part of our close family and where a person provides in will that property will go to the stepchild, the stepchildren really should be treated the same way as children. I would urge your favorable vote and be happy to answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The question is 'Shall House Bill 93 pass?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', all those by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this question there are 153 voting 'aye', one voting 'no', and three voting 'present', and this Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. We have with us today the Teacher of the Year from the 51st District represented by Representative Tate, Representative Donovan, and 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 Representative Dunn. And...Representative Donovan, would you introduce your guest please?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, today we have a Lady from the 51st District, a constituent of ours, Ms. Penny Edwards, that was elected in 1980-81 Illinois Teacher of the Year from Blue Mound. She teaches at Tower Hill Elementary School, and I would like to introduce her to you now. Ms. Penny Edwards...Mrs. Penny Edwards from Blue Mound."

"Thank you. I thank you for this special invitation and this special honor of being here today. A lot of people ask me 'How does it feel to be the best teacher in the whole State of Illinois?', and I have to honestly say I'm not the best teacher in the whole State of Illinois but I do represent hundreds of excellent teachers throughout our state. I thank you for this opportunity to be here. Thank you."

"Thank you. Congratulations to you and Representative Donovan said they didn't have teachers that look like you when he was in school. On page three of the Calendar appears House Bills Third Reading. House Bill 109, Representative Ronan...out of the record. House Bill 116, Representative Vinson...out of the record. House Bill 1...138, Representative Wikoff, out of the record. 139, Wikoff, out of the record. 140, Wikoff, out of the record. House Bill 150, Representative Cullerton...read the Bill."

"House Bill 150, a Bill for an Act in relationship to exemptions from jury service, Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is a Bill I have spoken to many people 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 about on the House floor. This Bill passed out of the Executive Committee 18 to 3. It requires that all Illinois citizens of voting age be eligible to serve on jury duty. Over the years we in the General Assembly have exempted certain occupations and classes of people from serving on jury duty and what the purpose of this Bill is to put everybody on an equal footing and simply require those who are now totally exempt to go through the same process of becoming excused from jury duty as other people who are not now exempt. The U.S. Federal Constitution only imposes one obligation on its citizens. It is not to serve in the military. It is not to pay taxes. It is simply the obligation to serve on a jury. It is the most patriotic duty we can perform, and it should be an obligation of all the citizens. I'd be happy to answer any questions about the Bill."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich."

"Mr. Cullerton, would you respond to a question please?"

"He indicates he will."

"I certainly congratulate you on what you're trying to do here. The thing that bothers me a little is that according to the digest it would permit the county boards to turn right around and put the same exemptions back in."

"No. A very important...a very important Amendment was adopted in Committee that takes that language out. Representative Leinenweber insisted on that and after the Bill first was defeated with that language it was since taken out."

"I have no problem supporting your Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Preston."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen. I rise 7  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 in support of this Bill. It is a good measure that is long overdue, and I urge you to vote 'aye on it. This changes the law...takes out the exemptions that were in for jury duty. As Mr. Cullerton so aptly said, it is one of the most patriotic duties that we have, and defendants need good people to serve on juries...to serve on juries. And I do...I do encourage your 'aye' vote."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Pullen."

"I would like to ask the Sponsor a question or two."

"He indicates he will respond."

"Possibly this was covered, in which case I apologize. Someone was talking with me. This Bill removes the statutory exemptions from jury duty?"

"That is correct."

"Does it still remove the statutory exemptions for constitutional officers, and Members of the General Assembly, and judges, and lawyers, and newspaper reporters?"

"Yes, it does. Removes all of the exemptions."

"So that Members of the General Assembly, and newspaper reporters, and lawyers would no longer be automatically exempt under the law from jury duty."

"That is correct. They would simply go through the same process to get excused from jury duty as those people who are not now exempt like pregnant women, and blind people, etcetera."

"Mr. Speaker, I would like to address myself to the Bill please."

"Proceed."

"Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I hope that you understand what is being discussed here because this Bill is of some major consequence. It would change to a considerable degree the way juries are chosen because the 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 statute now exempts automatically certain people in Illinois from jury duty. People such as police officers, newspaper reporters, lawyers, certain elected officials including Members of the General Assembly, physicians, sheriffs, judges, and other people whose duties would be interfered with by jury duty or who would not be in the best interests of the defendant or the state in having them serve on a jury. It is true that an attorney can challenge prospective jurors, but after a while, that attorney's challenges run out. And these people who are automatically exempt under the current law would, if this Bill were passed, use up many of those challenges so that if prospective jurors included several lawyers, and newspaper reporters, and judges, and police officers, and an attorney challenged each of those as people that he did not want serving on the jury that would be trying his client for, I think, very good reasons, he would not have very many challenges left for other prospective jurors who might be...not in accord with the best interests of his client or the best interest of the state. I think there was a reason why the Legislature in its wisdom statutorily excluded certain persons from jury duty, and I don't think that the Sponsor of this Bill has shown a compelling reason why criminal justice would better be served if these exemptions were removed from the statutes. I can appreciate the Gentleman's enthusiasm for his Bill because I understand that he has interests in changing the jury system, but I don't think this Bill does the total new look of the jury system that possibly could be needed. It does address one aspect, and I think it addresses an aspect that ought to be addressed only in the context of a real new look at the jury system. I would urge you to consider the consequences of removing the standard statutory exemptions from law and 9  18th Legislative Day Speaker STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE to defeat this Bill. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative March 26, 1981. Ronan...out of the record. Oh no, Representative Ronan."

"Yeah, will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Yeah, Representative Cullerton, are you sure that the press are now going to have to serve on jury duty if we pass this legislation?"

"That is correct. Right now all Members of...who work for a newspaper including the janitors are absolutely exempt from jury duty, and this would make them eligible...require that they be eligible to serve on the jury."

"It is amazing to me that the press were ever exempted from jury duty. How was that exemption originally put in?"

"Well, I really don't know how the newspaper... It's not all the press. It is just the newspaper people that...the TV and radio people are not exempt. And the purpose of this is to put everybody on an equal footing."

"Well, Representative Cullerton, if that is the goal, I think it is a commendable idea. I think it is important that the press fulfill some public responsibility. They obviously don't do that very often down here, and for that reason alone I'll support your legislation."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Conti."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Representative Cullerton, I spoke to you before you introduced this Bill, and I am still a little bit concerned about...is there any cause or anything in the Bill that would...there are many friendly suits brought about the court, and if the attorneys fail to question any of the jurors as to their conflict of interest in the particular matter that they can't declare a mistrial after 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day. March 26, 1981 the...decision has been rendered because there are maybe four or five jurors that did have an interest one way or another in this Bill."

"That is adequately covered in the law right now. There are an unlimited number of challenges for cause, and if...and of course, attorneys still...they question jurors, and judges question jurors to determine before they even are picked as jurors whether or not there is any conflict, and that, I believe, is covered under the present law."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huff."

"I have no question, Mr. Speaker. I think the concerns I Representative have were covered quite adequately by Pullen."

"The Gentleman from Vermillion, Representative Miller."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in opposition to this Bill for one reason. Most of these exemptions which are automatic now will eventually be granted by the court once the person now exempted makes the application to the court. But in the mean time, the person has been put to the expense and the inconvenience, I am afraid, of having to make that application, if I understand the status of the present Bill, and I think we're all going to find that some of these people are going to be very unhappy that they have to go to this difficulty and inconvenience and that while there may be some salutory portions in this law that they are overridden by the burden. Maybe the Sponsor can clear that up."

"Yes, thank you. I will be happy to answer that. All that is involved with requesting an excuse to get out of jury duty now is filling out a questionaire. This happens with many people who are not now excused, for example, people are blind, people who are in their ninth month or 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 eighth month of pregnancy for example. They simply fill out a questionaire and asked to be excused. The same thing would be true of people who are now totally exempted. They would just simply ask for that excuse. It is really a one step process with respect to those, however, who are now exempted but who want to serve on a jury. It would allow them to do so."

"You still have to go to the expense and the inconvenience of filling out the form, do you not?"

"There's no expense, I mean, people are right now sent questionaires, even those who are exempted, they have to mark down there that they are exempted and send it back. The only difference would be they would have to put down under this law the reason why they wish to be excused. It will involve no additional expense and no additional time."

"Thank you."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Stewart."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill would provide, and enlarge, and improve the pool of jury applicants, and I think that simply by becoming constitutional or elected officials we should not avoid a basic duty of being a U.S. citizen. Should any individual find jury service impossible because of health or employment reasons, a simple form is provided to request an excuse. I don't think it will....this Bill will add a burden...an undue burden to Members of the General Assembly and constitutional officials nor to members of professions that are currently exempted, and I would recommend an 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman from Will, Representative Leinenweber."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For those who have opposed this Bill of Representative Cullerton's, I think they make 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 a couple of fundamental mistakes. One is jury service is a duty and is not meant to be a convenience. It is a duty that we all owe as citizens of the United States because each and every one of us may on some occassion need a jury. We are also...another error that some people make, we are not allowed or not supposed to be able to fashion the jury in the way that we would like to see a particular jury fashioned if we're going to have a case be decided by a jury. What we are entitled to is have our case...both sides of an issue have their case considered by a jury of their peers. And the only way you can have a jury of your peers is to draw from as wide a pool as possible. Now what Representative Cullerton's Bill attempts to do is broaden the pool from which jurors come. Because of the fact that the jury service is a duty and not a convenience, over the years special interests have come down here an attempted to get their particular interest exempted from jury duty so that they don't have to be bothered by the inconvenience of serving on a jury in order to fulfill their constitutional duties. This Bill once and for all eliminates the exemptions which special interests have put in there in the past and I can tell you that those that are in there now are not only those....there are many out there that have consistently come down here annually to try to get included in exemptions such as pharmacists. This Bill is in the right direction. It attempts to widen the pool of jurors. No side is entitled to a jury that is going to decide in that side's favor so while the law does permit a certain amount of preemptary challenges, the use of preemptary challenges is not intended nor should it allow a person to obtain a jury that will decide only in his or her favor. So this is a good Bill. It is in the right direction, and in fact, it only...it eliminates all of the encroachments 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day in a March 26, 1981 fair jury trial that has built up over the years and so I rise with Representative Cullerton and urge an 'aye' vote on this Bill."

"The Gentleman from Tazewell, Representative Ozella: Ozella." "Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I rise in support of this Bill. It is a good Bill, and all this Bill is doing is giving everybody their constitutional right to pull civi...pull jury duty. It is a civic duty."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Piel."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved the previous question. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, and the Gentleman's motion prevails. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank those who spoke in support of this. I think it will afford a better system of justice both in criminal and civil cases throughout our state. It will indeed allow for a broader base of a jury, and those who are not now exempt would...as a result be called less often and be less inconvenienced, if you will. It does...the law right now does provide adequate protection afforded by the court in giving judicial discretion to provide excuses for those who generally need them. I would, therefore, ask for a favorable roll call."

"The question is 'Shall House Bill 150 pass?". All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this issue there are 138 voting 'aye', 19 voting 'no', and four voting 'present', and this Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. House 14  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 Bill 159, Representative Ronan. You want House Bill 1-5-9 called, Representative Ronan? Out of the record. House Bill 189, Representative Collins, out of the record. House Bill 195, Representative Darrow, out of the record. House Bill 218, Representative Friedrich. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 218, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Personnel Code, Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from...the Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, the present personnel code is not quite clear on veteran's preference. This for the first time specifies specifically in order to qualify for veterans' preference...preference, a person must have served in the armed services for at least six months or have been released from active duty because of service disconnected abilities and not have received a dishonorable discharge. I think it is a good Bill, and I would appreciate your support."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Wolf."

"Would the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Yes."

"You said this did not apply if the veteran has received a dishonorable discharge. What about a bad conduct discharge?"

"That is not a part of the Bill, but...and it is not in the present law either, but...it does not say they have to have an honorable discharge."

"So this would be anything but a dishonorable discharge which would include an honorable, a general, or a bad conduct. Am I correct?"

"True." 15  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day

"Or an undesirable."

"Pardon me." March 26, 1981

"Or an undesirable. There are five different kinds as I recall... Thank you."

"Or for the good of the service or anything else, but they have to serve at least six months or have been released because of a service connected disability."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich, to close."

"I would appreciate your favorable vote."

"The question is 'Shall House Bill 218 pass?'. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Slape, 'aye'. Take the record will you, Mr. Clerk? On this question there are 159 voting 'aye', no voting 'no', and three voting 'present', and this Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 223, Representative Pullen...out of the record. House Bill 237, Representative Ebbesen...out of the record. House Bill 238, Representative Beatty, out of the record. House Bill 246, Representative Yourell. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 246, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to revise the law in relationship to township organizations, Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Yourell."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 246 is a Bill designed to do for the townships in Cook County what ve did for the downstate townships two years ago. As you recall, we have from time to time in this House allowed the units of local government and the local elected officials to set salaries. I don't think that the General Assembly should be in the position 16  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 of setting salaries for local elected officials. And you know that all of those Bills that we designed and presented for that purpose were passed out of the General Assembly and signed into law by the Governor. What 246 does is exactly that. It removes the maximum salary limit for town clerks only in Cook County. The rest of the state has already been taken care of. And as you know, the minimum is not disturbed so as to take care of those incidents where a Minority Party might see some difficulty. All this does is allow the Board of Auditors of each township in Cook County to determine the salaries of their township clerk. I would ask for a favorable vote on House Bill 246."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing."

"Would the Speaker yield for a question?"

"The Speaker?"

"Would the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Yes."

"Thank you. Does this... you said it doesn't do anything with the minimum?"

"No."

"Just takes off the top lid? Doesn't raise a salary for anyone?"

"No."

"Thank you."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Yourell, to close."

"Just ask for a favorable roll call."

"The question is 'Shall House Bill 246 pass? All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 150 voting 'aye', one voting 'no', and five voting 'present', and this Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 259, Representative Levin. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 259, a Bill for an Act to amend the Boat Registration and Safety Act, Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Levin."

"Representative Speakers,...Representatives...Mr. Speaker,...I'm doing well. I'm sorry."

"Start over, Representative."

"Okay. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 259 would authorize the Department of Conservation to register and issue appropriate plaques to historic watercrafts. These are boats which are over 25 years of age and maintain the original type of power source. There is a $25 fee attached to this legislation which would pay for all the costs involved. The purpose of the Bill is to set up in Illinois a program which now exists in both Maryland and Ohio that recognizes the importance and tries to preserve these historical boats. The Bill is supported by the Department of Conservation..."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Will, Representative Leinenweber."

"I'd like to ask the Sponsor a question. Why in the world couldn't the Department of Conservation do this now with their existing powers? That was a question for the Sponsor."

"I just conferred with a representative of the Department. The...this issue was raised initially about a year and a half ago, and I believe went before the...the Advisory Committee of the Department, and they attempted to work out an administrative way of doing it. And the conclusion they 18  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981. came to is that they did not have the authority under current statute to do this."

"Well, we have four volumes now, and there will probably soon be a fifth for the Illinois Revised Statutes, and they are so heavy that our bookcases are bending under them, and it just seems to me that using the Bill to accomplish this is kind of over...a bit much."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Macdonald."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in support of this Bill. It was heard in our Committee, and certainly went out of the Committee with a very favorable roll call as you noticed, 15 'aye', no 'nos', and no 'present'. We feel and had testimony that there was indeed great interest in this kind of legislation, and in providing for those boat enthusiasts and where the Conservation Department feels that they don't have the statutory authority to do it, I think that it would be very commendable for us to establish this procedure, and I do urge your support of this Bill."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from McLean, Representative Bradley."

"Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Gentleman would yield to a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Alright. We're going to issue an identification plaque for a $25 fee to change...on a classification of a boat that would now be classified as a heritage boat. My question is, is there a fee now if you own a historical watercraft boat?"

"The current fees that all boats are subject to..."

"Yeah, I know what the current fees are all boats are subject to. I'm just saying you're classifying a boat here...over here, Mr. Levin. You're...all I want to know 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 is if you have a historical watercraft boat now, is there a fee for the identification plaque?"

"At the present time there is no additional fee, but there is also no plaque."

"Well, alright. Then the next question is, is it mandatory that they do this?"

"No, there is an Amendment...Amendment #3 makes it permissive."

"Okay, fine. Thank you."

"We estimate that there are about 2 to 300 such boats in the State of Illinois, and you know, we're very privileged to have the first club of historical boats at Montrose Harbor located in the 12th Legislative District."

"If somebody wants to pay $25 to get a plaque on their boat, they can go ahead and do it then. Fine, okay."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hoffman."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. This Bill is a good example of why we need a Consent Calendar."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago on House Bill 259, Representative Giorgi."

"Could I ask the Sponsor a question?"

"It is okay with me."

"If you buy...if you buy a decal and you don't put it on a his...ancient vessel, what is the penalty?"

"There's...there is no penalty. It is a totally voluntary..."

"Not a misdemeanor or anything? In other words..."

"No."

"You and Leinenweber can't charge a fee for defending a person for putting a decal on a boat?"

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Greiman on House Bill 259." 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981

"Well, I think that there is much too much levity surrounding this very important measure, but I think really this is a foot in the door. The next thing they'll have is 25 year old cars and they will be historical vehicles, and then the ultimate...we know what you're after, Levin, 25 year old people will become historical people, and they'll have a decal. This is a very serious matter, and I am going to think about it. I am going to watch the Board closely on this Bill."

Speaker Ryan: "Is there any further discussion? Representative...the Representative from Cook, Representative Boucek."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Levin, this is only for a 25 year vehicle. How about one...boat for a golden anniversary...maybe 50 year flag, and one for 60 for a jubilarian. I don't think we should stop there. What about...have you got that in this Bill?"

"One of the reasons for the 25 year figure is because...you know, we're basically talking about wooden crafts, and we're talking about boats at...a lot of which were designed by naval architects years ago and are unique. More recently they have gone to fiberglass and fiberglass is not as unique and doesn't have the same kind of historic value, So it is an attempt to recognize and promote these...you know, architecturally unique and important crafts."

"But there is none for 50 years specifically...specifically. Now will this make dead watercraft more valuable because it has a craft on it?"

"No, there is a lot of work that goes into refurbishing these. At the present time it could take a year or two 21  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 years to take one of these boats and put it back in the shape and certainly after the work has gone into it. The refurbishing improves the value, but the plaque itself, I don't believe, is going to add any value to the...to the boat."

"The final question, will the game warden issue a citation if they do not have that plague when the craft is 25 years of age or older?"

"It is totally voluntary. It is, you know, this is modeled after the program in tw other states. It is...what has been requested. There is no requirement to do this."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Matijevich."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, all of the Representatives around me are really confused about this Bill. For example, Representative Giorgi mentioned to me he said, 'We've got overcrowded correctional institutions now and here in this Bill we're going to make jails for boats.' I mean, we can't put people in our prisons. Now we're going to find jails for boats, and the next thing you know we're going to have...the boats are going to be Class X felonies. I mean, we're going a little too far here, Ellis. I mean, I think Greiman is right. You're opening the door, and can we afford prisons for boats?"

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Hallstrom."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I move the previous question."

"The Lady has moved the previous question. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, and the motion prevails. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Levin, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated earlier, this 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 Bill is supported by the Department of Conservation. It was passed out of Committee unanimously. We had testimony from John T. Case from WBBM radio among others in support of this legislation, and I urge your favorable roll call."

"The question is 'Shall House Bill 259 pass?'. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 114 voting 'aye', 24 voting 'no', and 12 voting 'present', and this Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. House...House Bill 272, Representative Yourell. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 272, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act concerning land titles, Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Yourell."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 272 deals only with Cook County and the torn system of registering land titles. As you know, Cook County is the only county in the State of Illinois that does have the torn system. We have had many difficulties relative to the...to the Act as it relates to condominiums and condominium conversions. And as a result of that, this Bill is designed to...develop a new system which upon the land owners application, the court may after the appropriate proceedings direct the issues of specific titles with certain exceptions. And this certificate, of course, is conclusive to the applicant's true ownership. Applicants in Cook County now have the option to either record their land titles...certificate of title in the recorder's office or in the torn system. What this Bill would do would bring the torn system in Cook County to a 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSENBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 close and no application for registration of land titles could be made through this option after the Bill's effective date. To give you some figures briefly, in 1979 and 1980 the new applications, the amount of money received by the County of Cook was $2,175. And it cost the county in that year $36,830 to accept those land registration titles. In 1980, last year, ve only had one new application, and the cost of the recorder's office was over $19,000. This is a Bill that is endorsed by the Bar Association, by the Civic Federation, and I would ask for your favorable support."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Conti."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen, the absence of the endorsements of the Real Estate Board is very conspicuous in this matter. You know how they feel, Representative Yourell?"

"I have talked to several Members of the Board, and they have not indicated to me one way or the other whether they support it or do not support it. The torn system of the Bar Association is in support of the Bill that studies this, and I think... I think it is a tool that we can use, and there's another Bill coming along, Elmer, that will give you the option to opt out of the torn system if you so desire."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from:Cook, Representative Huskey."

"Representative Yourell, does the patronage workers that Yourell: take care of the torn system, how many are there?" "What kind of workers?"

"The workers that take care of the torn system in the recorder of deed's office. How many employees are there?"

"When I went to the office there were 496. There is 24  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 presently 301, and they're not all patronage."

"Now does this 301, does this eliminate those 301 jobs if you eliminate the torn system?"

"Better not."

"Well, then why do you want to eliminate it?"

"I am not eliminating any employees, Sir, except two."

"But you're eliminating the torn system."

"Yes, that is correct."

"But you're not going to eliminate the employees?"

"As I mentioned to you, there are two employees in the abstract section."

"You just said there was 300 and how many?"

"There is 302 employees in the recorder's office. There are two in the abstract section."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Yourell, to close."

"Just ask for favorable support."

"The question is 'Shall House Bill 272 pass?". All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 143 voting 'aye', nine voting 'no', and two voting 'present', and this Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 276, Representative Kelly, out of the record. House Bill 288, Representative Lechowicz. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 288, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the creation of centers for the treatment of child sexual abuse and exploitation, Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lechowicz."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 288 requires the Department of Children 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 aside at the convenience of an agency administrator, and this specific area of child abuse, I believe, the state can afford to make it quite clear in the statutes of this state that we are in support of a demonstration project. We want to have the General Assembly be accountable and make sure that the director is doing everything possible to try to help children who have been exposed to this heinous crime."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Schraeder."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a question of the Sponsor if I may."

"He indicates he'll reply."

"I looked in the digest, and I don't see an appropriation Bill introduced in conjunction with this. And it appears that there is a fiscal impact, and I wonder if Representative Lechowicz could give me any information in that regard."

"Be more than happy to, Mr. Speaker. The Department presently under contractual arrangement already has provided an estimated annual cost of $40 to $50,000. They have signed the contract already under existing budget, and for that reason there was no appropriation Bill provided for House Bill 288."

"Thank you, Representative. I would conclude that this Bill is an excellent one since we do not have additional funding requirements, and I would urge its passage."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lechowicz, to close."

"I just strongly recommend your strong support on House Bill 288, Mr. Speaker."

"The question is 'Shall House Bill 288 pass?'. All 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 146 voting 'aye', eight voting 'no', and eight voting 'present', and this Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 289, Representative Stuffle...out of the record. House Bill 290, Representative Capparelli. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 290, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code, Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Capparelli."

"Thank you...thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen, House Bill 290 amends the School Code. It increases the application fee for the general education development. That is the GED examination from five to ten dollars and also increases the fee for the high school equivalency certificate from five to ten dollars. There has not been an increase in this fee since 1961, and since then it has more than doubled. I urge you to support this legislation. The GED program is a proven success. It offers an opportunity for thousands of individuals to equip themselves with an education and agree to better their own personal lives and increase their earning potential. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"Is there any discussion? The question is 'Shall House Bill 290 pass?'. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 153 voting 'aye', three voting 'no', one voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 292, Representative Lechowicz." 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day

"House Bill 292, a Bill for an Act Revenue Act, Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Lechowicz." March 26, 1981 to amend the Gentleman from Cook, Representative

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 292 increases the interest penalty on delinquent property taxes in all the counties in the state from one percent to one and a half percent. House Bill 292 again would increase the delinquent property taxes from one and a half to...one and a half percent. Initially this Bill was originally drawn strictly for Cook County. At the request of the Revenue Committee it was amended to include all of the counties because the counties are facing the same situation throughout this state. Delinquent property taxes are not being paid because of the low interests involved in carrying the money in comparison with what you receive in the private sector. For that reason it was thought equitable to increase the interest provisions to one and one half percent. I would be more than happy to answer any questions or ask for your support on 292."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Conti."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, just briefly looking at this, this almost becomes confiscatory when you're figuring out a point and a half at the end of the year it is 18% interest on this. Now this creates  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 paid...when he paid twice on the tax bill and still in all we'll vote for a Bill that is almost confiscatory when it comes to charging a point and a half. I am a little concerned about this Bill."

"Representative Lechowicz."

"Well, in response, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I think the priorities of this General Assembly should be to have government operate at the most efficient lowest cost possible. If you're going to be subsidizing people that do not have the...initiative to pay their taxes to support their school system of this state and saying 'Yes, we're going to be...we're going to let them not pay their taxes and only charge them one percent per month when if you go into the Savings and Loan. or any banking facility in this state in order to get a loan it is 18 and 19 percent. So be it. But I am telling you in all fairness and equity, this Bill was a recommendation, if you recall correctly, by Governor Ogilvie's task force, and they made the recommendation some time ago. This is nothing new and novel. It is something that we addressed and passed overwhelmingly by this House last year, got caught in the Senate because of their consideration of only appropriation and revenue matters. This item passed overwhelmingly in this House last year, deserves your support this year. We're not saying that it...the interest rate is 18% flat annual rate, it is one and a half percent per month. If a person is late one month, that is what he is charged for. If he is late, that is what he is charged for. It is fair and equitable."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Kulas."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, one of the Majority Leaders mentioned that this would be an 18% penalty. Well, the biggest violators of not paying taxes 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 are the big landowners, the corporations because they can take that money and invest that money...that certificate which pays 15% or 18% at the present time so why...why...why should they pay the taxes on time if they are only going to paying a one percent penalty which amounts to 12% a year? I think this is a good Bill, and I would urge an 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Schneider."

"Thank...thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House.. Representatives Kulas and Lechowicz are correct. One of the problems that we sensed as we looked at the last couple of years in schools is the delinquent problem of large companies and corporations that are not paying but are appealing their taxes. Now that appeal is another problem, but certainly when you look at the source of the Bill, the Ogilvie task force...the management task force from 1972 and the fact that we have waited until almost a decade later to implement that suggestion indicates that the time has certainly come for us to do it. It is to the advantage of those individuals and those corporations in many cases to not pay their taxes when the penalty is so small. So I think that 18% which may stun some people such as Representative Conti is a reasonable one in the light of the current economic problems that we are facing. There are other ways to resolve the problem. This is one of the solutions. I certainly think we ought to encourage an 'aye' vote on this especially for many of you who contacted me during the time we had the hearing on the school crisis in Chicago saying 'What happened to those corporations that did not pay their taxes?' Well, one of the things that happened is they saw it was a lot better to appeal and not worry about the...the penalty that would be imposed on them 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 for not paying. So this is a timely Bill. It certainly fits neatly into the package, and I think that our Committee will offer to you sometime later this quarter...this spring. I suggest an 'aye' vote."

"The Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson."

"Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Would he be willing to support the lifting of any usery ceilings on private lenders which may be below this figure?"

"Would he repeat the question please?"

"We have a situation where the state imposes usery limits on private lenders as well as on local government and my question would be if any of those figures are below this figure, one and a half percent a month, would you be willing to lift those figures or support legislation to lift those figures?"

"I don't believe that is applicable to this Bill."

"Mr. Speaker, would you direct the Gentleman to answer the question?"

"I just did."

"Proceed, Representative Vinson."

"Well, I think if the Gentleman is so arrogant as to refuse to answer the question and if he is unwilling to be consistent in his legislation, I think we ought to defeat this thing."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Preston."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen. I rise in support of this Bill. The present status of the law is to encourage people to in fact not pay their taxes. In Cook County alone there is unpaid personal property taxes of some $285,000,000. The people who owe these personal property taxes are encouraged by a 12% interest rate not to 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 pay those taxes. Indeed, if they went into the market place and borrowed the money to pay those taxes they would have to pay 17%. Therefore, why pay the tax? Why not sit back? What it is is a 12% loan which you cannot get in the marketplace today. This is a good Bill. This is a Bill that is needed to collect some of the uncollected funds throughout the State of Illinois. And by voting in favor of this Bill you're really voting in favor of additional funding for education and for other programs throughout the State of Illinois. So please do vote 'aye'. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Kustra."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, last August the Governor created the Local Government Finance Study Commission and as a Member of that Commission I held hearings along with my fellow commissioners throughout the State of Illinois. We heard testimony from local government administrators on this subject. They told us the problems, the fact that in a sense the honest taxpayers who paid on time were subsidizing to a large extent those who were paying late. It is a problem that the Commission addressed unanimously in a recommendation which we will all be receiving on April 1 when that Commission reports to the Governor and the General Assembly. I support this Bill, and I urge your favorable vote also. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Greiman on House Bill 292."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't know if the Sponsor has addressed this issue...is it my understanding that this is one and a half percent in Cook County and one percent in counties...in other counties. Is that right?"

"Correct. It is one and a half percent for all counties."

"So the original Bill has been amended?" 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 18th Legislative Day

"The original Bill originally applied only for Cook County. Then at the request of the Committee Members of the Revenue Committee it was amended on the floor to include all counties...one and a half percent."

"That's all. Thank you. I support that Bill. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the Revenue Committee heard this Bill. We didn't find anything objectional about it. I think that we should help out our bretheren to the north. There is no reason for people who don't pay their taxes not to pay at least the going interest rate. We shouldn't be giving them any breaks, and I would ask for the support of the House in voting this Bill out."

"The Gentleman from Knox, Representative McGrew."

"I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman moves the previous question. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', those opposed by saying 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, and the motion prevails. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lechowicz, to close."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I did not mean to be arrogant in any way to Representative Vinson who I consider a very good personal friend. But in turn, I believe the question is whether delinquent property taxes should be subsidized by the taxpayers of the State of Illinois or whether we should receive a fair and justable rate of interest so that we would encourage people to pay their taxes on time. And for that reason I strongly recommend House Bill 292 for your consideration. It would be one and a half percent per month statewide."

"The question is 'Shall House Bill 292 pass?". All 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day in favor will signify by voting 'aye', 'no'. Those opposed by voting'no'. March 26, 1981 those by voting Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from Whiteside, Representative Schuneman, to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, but by way of explanation of my vote, I think Representative Lechowicz has an excellent Bill here and one that should be passed. But I also think that Representative Vinson made a telling point when he points out the discrepancy in the laws of the State of Illinois which on one hand we want to give government the right to charge rates of 18% and on the other hand we require rates lower of private industry, and I hope that those voting for this Bill now will remember this principle when the other Bills come along."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Vitek, to explain his vote."

"Hr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I've been here a long time, and I do not support Schuneman's argument or Vinson's where they ask a question 'Will you support my Bill? which had nothing to do with Ted's Bill andin a sense it is a bribe offer, I'll vote for your Bill if you'll vote for mine. So let's keep it to the question that is before us and not ask 'Will you support a usery Bill if I vote against this Bill? That is what I am trying to clear up here. These are honest people that are on the floor on both sides. I know Vinson is trying to work his usery Bill or whatever he's got. And we'll study it when it comes up, Sam. So don't worry about Teddy's vote. Teddy will vote his conscience when it comes up."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Daniels."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I had no idea how bad Sam and Cal were, So, John, you've convinced me. I'm going to vote 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day 'aye' on this one." Speaker Ryan: his vote. are 148 March 26, 1981 "The Gentleman from Sangamon, Mr. Kane, to explain Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there voting 'aye', 12 voting 'no', three voting 'present', and this Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, we have filed with the Clerk three House Joint Resolutions #18, #19, and #20. House Joint Resolution #18 sponsored by Speaker Ryan and the rest of the Republican Leadership along with Representative Madigan and the Democratic Leadership to welcome President Reagan to the...to address us next week on Wednesday and the Resolution also provides for a Committee of ten to be appointed, five from the House and five from the Senate, to wait upon President Reagan and to escort him to the Joint Session. House Joint Resolution #19 extends an invitation to the Members of the Supreme Court to attend a Joint Session and listen to the President. House Joint Resolution #20 extends the same invitation to the constitutional officers to attend a Joint Session, and Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, I now offer and move House Joint Resolutions #18, 19, and 20 and ask if there is leave that if all the Members of the House wish to be added as Cosponsors they be given that privilege. If you want a separate roll call...The Gentleman wants a separate roll call."

"Read the Resolution, Mr. Clerk." lerk Leone: "House Resolution... House Joint Resolution 18, whereas President Ronald Reagan will come to the City of Springfield, Illinois on Wednesday April 1, 1981 and has agreed to address a Joint Session of the two Houses, and whereas the opportunity to meet with the President is among 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 the highest honors that could be conferred upon this General Assembly. Therefore, be it resolved by the House of Representatives of the 82nd General Assembly of the State of Illinois that the Senate concurring herein that the two Houses shall invite the honorable President Ronald Reagan to address a Joint Session of this General Assembly and be it further resolved that the two Houses shall convene in a Joint Session on April 1, 1981 in the chamber of the House of Representatives for the purpose of hearing the President address the General Assembly. Be it further resolved that a Committee of ten be appointed, five from the House by the Speaker of the House and five from the Senate by the President of the Senate to wait upon Honorable President Ronald Reagan and escort him to the Joint Session. Be it further resolved that suitable copies of this Preamble and Resolution be presented to the President as a formal expression of this...invitation and of respect and esteem to which he is held by Members of the General Assembly. House Joint Resolution 19, resolved by the House of Representatives of the 82nd General Assembly, State of Illinois, the Senate concurring herein that an invitation be and is hereby extended to the Chief Justice and the Associate Justices of the Supreme Court of Illinois to attend in a Body the Joint Session of the General Assembly to be held in the chamber of the House of Representatives on Wednesday afternoon, April 1, 1981 and to join in receiving Ronald Reagan, the President of the United States, and be it further resolved that the Clerk of the House is directed to transmit a suitable copy of this invitation and Resolution to the Chief Justice and Associate Justices of the Supreme Court of Illinois. House Joint Resolution 20, resolved by the House of Representatives of the 82nd General Assembly, State of 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 Illinois, Senate concurring herein that an invitation be and is hereby extended to the Governor, the Lieutenant Governor, the Attorney General, Secretary of State, the Comptroller, and the Treasurer of Illinois to attend the Body and join in the Joint Session of the General Assembly to be held in the chamber of the House of Representatives on February...on Wednesday afternoon, April 1, 1981 and to join in receiving Ronald Reagan, the President of the United States, and be it further resolved that the Clerk of the House is directed to transmit a suitable copy of this invitation Resolution to the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General, Secretary of State, Comptroller, and Treasurer of Illinois."

"The Gentleman asks leave to have all Members added as Cosponsors. Is leave granted? Are there any objections? The Gentleman from Knox, Representative McGrew."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. What is the odds of amending the second one to eliminate the Supreme Court?"

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, a number of Members have asked that we take each Resolution separately. So now I offer to move the adoption of House Joint Resolution #18 which simply provides for the appointment of the Committee to escort President Reagan to the chamber and announces the House Joint Session for the purpose of hearing President Reagan. I offer and move the adoption of House Joint Resolution: #18."

"The Gentleman moves the adoption of House Resolution #18. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed by saying 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Resolution is adopted."

"Now, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, House Joint 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 Resolution #19 is the Resolution which extends an invitation to the Chief Justice and the Associate Justices of the Supreme Court of Illinois to attend the Joint. Session. Now, Mr. Speaker...a roll call has been requested, Mr. Speaker. I now offer and move the adoption of House Joint Resolution #19."

"The Gentleman moves the adoption of House Resolution #19. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all those opposed by saying 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, and the Resolution is adopted. The next Resolution, Mr. Telcser."

"House Joint Resolution 20, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, extends the invitation to the constitutional officers to attend the Joint Session. I now offer and move the adoption of House Joint Resolution #20."

"The Gentleman moves the adoption of House Resolution #20. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, and the Resolution is adopted. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Mr., Speaker, I ask leave to be recorded as voting 'no' on House Joint Resolution 19."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Peters."

"Same request as Representative Collins. 'No' on 18...or 19."

"This was an oral roll call, Bill, and I don't know how we do that. If you insist on a roll call on House Resolution #19 I'll go back and do it. I think there it's a mistake, but...open the Board if you want to vote on it. If you want the adoption of House Resolution #19, all in favor will signify by voting 'aye', alright...Representative Wolf, what is your request? Same request. Any other change of votes? Representative 39  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 McAuliffe, same request. Represenative Friedrich, same request. On page four on the Calendar under House Bills Third Reading appears House Bill 295, Representative Stuffle. The Gentleman... 295, you yield to Representative Donovan? Representative Lechowicz, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Just a point of information, Mr. Speaker.. Mas Resolution #20 adopted? I know you called it and...then they went back to #19."

"No, Resolution #19 was adopted and..."

"What about #220?"

"#20 was adopted. They were all adopted."

"Fine. Thank you."

"Out of the record on 295. House Bill 296, Representative Donovan."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"House Resolution... House Bill 296, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to provide for the licensing and regulating of detective and detective agencies, Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Donovan on House Bill 296."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, 296... House Bill 296 is a Bill that amends an Act regulating the employment of security guards by detective agencies. In fact, what it does is add the... the PTI course presently that you take in Champaign for a permenant law enforcement personnel. It is adding the Act to the Illinois Police Training Act. Today we don't have that. If you want to be a security guard you would have back through RNE and take another 30 hour course which is to go much less extensive than the certainly the one that we take PTI in Champaign that takes six weeks. So what we're doing is if you're a permanent law enforcement person today you 40  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 would still be required under present law to come back and take these 30 hours which is rather repetitious and redundant. What we're doing is adding this...this next much more extensive police training to this and allow them to qualify security guards. It is supported by RNE and I would be answer to...be glad to answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? Representative Stuffle, do you seek recognition?"

"Simply to say that having handled the Bill in Committee as a hyphenated Sponsor that I think all the opposition which I don't think there really was any was taken out by the addition of an Amendment with reference to a specific Section in the statute dealing with the Police Training Act, and I know of no opposition to the Bill and would ask for a favorable Roll Call."

"Representative Donovan to close."

"I would ask for a favorable vote."

"The question is 'Shall House Bill 296 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 160 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', and three voting 'present', and this Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 307, Representative Bianco. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 307, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Illinois Vehicle Code, Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bianco."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would like to have leave of the House to bring this House Bill 307 back to Second Reading for, the purposes of an Amendment."

"The Gentleman asks leave to return House Bill 307 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 back to the order of Second Reading. Are there objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. Proceed, Representative."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen..."

"Read the Amendment, Mr. Clerk."

"Amendment #2 sponsored by Representative Bianco amends House Bill 307 on page one and so forth."

"I would like to move to table Amendment #1 and adopt Amendment #2 which is a simple Amendment which changes the wording to Code Act."

"The Gentleman moves to adopt...asks leave to table Amendment #1. Is there...is there any objections? Hearing none, Amendment #1 is tabled. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bianco, on Amendment #2."

"I would like to move to adopt Amendment #2 which is a simple Amendment. It changes the wording to Code Act in the Bill."

"The Gentleman moves the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 307. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed by saying 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Gentleman's Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"

"No further Amendments."

"Third Reading. House Bill 317, Representative Cullerton. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 317, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Code of Criminal Procedure, Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is a Bill that I have introduced on behalf of the Illinois State Bar Association. It is part of their 1981 legislative program. The purpose of this Bill is to clarify the authority of a trial judge to use non-monitary 42  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 conditions in addition to the defendant's promise to appear in court as a basis for giving him what is known as a recognizant bond. What this does is in effect give the judge more power to impose certain conditions on criminal defendants before they will be allowed to go...be out on bond. They include reporting or appearing before an agency, refraining from using a firearm, refraining from associating with certain people, refraining from using liquor or drugs, requiring them to undergo drug addiction treatment, or to work at a particular job. The Bill passed 10 to nothing in Judiciary II Committee. I would be happy to answer any questions."

"Is there any discussion? The question is 'Shall House Bill 317 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all those opposed by voting 'no'. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Meyer, to explain his vote. Representative Meyer."

"I just wanted to ask the Sponsor before this was voted, does this include those who have a criminal record? Is that also giving a judge someone who has a criminal record the same options as those who are there for a first time?"

"Representative Cullerton, would you care to explain your vote?"

"Yes, I'll attempt to answer the question. Whether someone is...has a previous record or not is brought out in any bond hearing and the judges use that most times...if they have a previous record they're not given an 'I' bond, they're not let out on their own recognizance at all. So this probably does not apply to those people. This only applies to people who have no previous record and the judge wants to set down specific conditions."

"But he does have that discretion though of..."

"That's right." 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 18th Legislative Day

"Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this issue there are 158 voting aye and none voting no and none voting present. And House Bill 317 having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 319, Representative Leverenz. Out of the record. House Bill 329, Representative Barkhausen."

"House Bill 329, a Bill for an Act to amend the Regional Transportation Authority Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Barkhausen."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, as a freshman Member, I thought it appropriate that my first Bill be simple and non-controversial. This is, as I say, a very simple Amendment to the Regional Transportation Authority Act to carry out the provisions of the original legislation which mandate that the RTA Board be reapportioned after every federal decinnial census. The present law requires, sets a deadline for the reapportionments being carried out as July 1 of 1983, and what my Bill does quite simply is to carry out the reapportionment requirement and also to step up by two years from July 1, 1983 to July 1, 1981 the reapportionment deadline. We have in our hands preliminary census figures and they suggest, quite clearly a reapportionment of the present twelve member Board in a way that the representation from the City of Chicago would be reduced from six to five. The representation from suburban Cook County would be increased from three to four. The representation from DuPage County would remain at one, and the representation from the remaining collar counties would remain at two."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 Representative Madigan, on House Bill 329."

"If you don't want to recognize me, you'll just turn off the mic anyhow. So, why go through that charade? Mr. Speaker, I would implore upon you to implore upon your Members to seriously question if there's any need to consider this Bill today. You have scheduled a Committee of a whole for tomorrow to consider this very subject in the broad context of the Governor's tax increase proposal. So, I seriously question if the time of the House will be well spent in considering this Bill today."

"Well, Mr. Madigan, this Bill appears on the Order of Third Reading on the Calendar and the Gentleman certainly is entitled to call it. It falls in the order of call that we've followed here all day, and that's certainly his prerogative if he cares to call the Bill. Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Barkhausen, to close."

"Yes, ar. Speaker...Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House..."

"Just a minute. Just a minute, Representative Barkhausen. Representative Currie, do you have your light on? The Lady from Cook, Representative Currie."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Not only is this Bill premature because we are going to consider the whole matter of the Regional Transportation Authority starting tomorrow, but, in fact, as the Sponsor suggests his proposal is based on census figures that themselves are premature. We only have preliminary census data at this point, not the actual numbers that might help us with the reapportionment. The statute that he attempts to amend calls for the orderly reapportionment of the Regional Transportation Committee... Authority at an appropriate time. I don't think this time is appropriate, 45  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 not only because we don't have the numbers. We are dealing with. the subject of the structure of the Regional Transportation Authority within this very week in this very House. And, in addition, the present Act calls for an orderly replacement of individual RTA Board members. What Representative Barkhausen's Bill would do would be to say that the most recently appointed member would suddenly find himself off the RTA Board. When appointed to that Board, no such provision existed and it seems to me that if one's ever concerned about treating people who were appointed to a particular body in a particular fashion, this Bill really is out of place in terms of time. And I would urge everyone to vote no."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Pullen."

"I'd like to ask the Sponsor a question, please."

"Proceed."

"The previous speaker said that we only have preliminary census data. When will we the official figures be submitted to the Legislature? Do you know?"

"The last I heard it would be around April 1, is what we've been counting on for the purposes of legislative reapportionment, I know."

"Is April 1 next Wednesday?"

"Representative Pullen, I believe you can read the Calendar as well as I can. I think it is."

"I think it is too. Do you think that that would give us adequate time to act under your Bill since this Bill hasn't even cleared the Senate yet, for us to be able to have the 'census figures next Wednesday?"

"Certainly, I think so."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak to the Bill, please."

"Please proceed, Miss Pullen." 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 allen: "Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, what the Gentleman from Lake is seeking is some justice and fairness long, long, long overdue. We have known for a good many years that the City of Chicago was loosing population and the suburbs were gaining. We now have the facts and the figures and we know in what proportions that has taken place. We know now that the Regional Transportation Authority Board is totally out of proportion, and the only way that it will get into proportion for many more years is to pass this Bill. There is no reason that the people of suburban Cook County should be denied representation for another two years which is what will happen under the way the law stands now. This Bill is absolutely needed. It is only fair. A couple hundred years ago some people fought a revolution over taxation with representation. We feel totally unrepresented. We feel totally under represented by having a Board ruling over the taxation of Cook County and the other five counties that is unbalanced, that clearly has more members from the City of Chicago than the people in that city are entitled to. The census figures will be available next week. This is a very timely Bill. There is no reason why the people should be asked to wait another two years to get the kind of representation that they deserve. I urge your favorable consideration of this Bill. This is our first chance to bring even a small tiny droplet of fairness into the Regional Transportation Authority Act and it is absolutely vital that this Bill be passed to the Senate now so that we can reapportion the Board and give people in suburban areas the representation to which they are entitled under court decisions and every other standard of fairness. We like to talk about one man, one vote. This isn't an elected board, but nevertheless, these people are appointed to represent those constituents. 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 This is only fair. Please vote aye on this very important Bill. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Garmisa."

"Thank you, Mr. Chairman (sic). Mr. Chairman (sic), in the Transportation Committee we had an explicit agreement to send all Bills dealing with the RTA into a subcommittee. Now, Mr. Speaker, a funny thing happened on the way to this Bill being submitted to that subcommittee. The Transportation Committee voted this Bill out after we had an agreement that all RTA Bills would be considered by the subcommittee. And, Mr. Speaker, I agree 100% with Representative Currie's statement, re., it being totally unfair to any Member that has been appointed to this Board whose term does not expire before July 1 of 1981, to ask him to step aside. This man's plans for his future might depend upon his being on the Board till '82, '83 or whatever the term may be. And he certainly has the right, the patent right to finish out the term of office for which he was appointed. And, Mr. Speaker, this was a bad Bill in the first place. In the second place, it did not go through what we had explicitely agreed on in Transportation Committee, and I would ask to defeat this Bill as it's brought up at this time."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Macdonald."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would like to applaud our new Member, Representative Barkhausen, for his perception. He is not a Member of the Cook County delegation of Representatives and he has recognized clearly the unfair structure of the Board as it exists today. There is an urgency. I don't know what the arrangements were in the Transportation Committee, but there is an urgency for us to resolve the problems as they are. We have no idea what will be happening to the 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 packages that have been handed us by the Governor, and I think that it is essential for us to go on with plans for the Regional Transportation Authority. I think this Bill is fair. I think it meets a need that is coming very shortly when we get the census tax. We know what they are going to reflect, and I urge your support of this very fine Bill. And I again commend Representative Barkhausen for his foresight."

"The Lady from Dupage, Representative Fawell."

"I call for the previous question."

"Lady's called for the previous question. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', all opposed by saying 'no'. The ayes have it. The Lady's question prevails. The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Barkhausen, to close."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I believe that this Bill meets with basic principles of fundamental fairness. One man, one vote requirement has been basic to our constitutional law for the last fifteen years. And just as we in the Legislature face reapportionment deadlines this year so I think it's appropriate that the RTA Board should be reapportioned at this time. We have good, valid preliminary census figures which will assure a representation breakdown throughout the six county area which is far more accurate than what we've been laboring under these last seven years. My distinguished colleague on the Transportation Committee from the other side of the aisle raised the question about knocking a person out of his job before the end of his term. I don't know how many of us would be ... need to be weeping great crocodile tears for Patrick O'Mally if it is in fact is to be him, however; my Amendment #1 to this Bill provides that if the reapportionment takes place after July 1, the person removed from the Board will be that person 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day appointed on July 1. If the person to be reapportionment March 26, 1981 If the occurs prior to July 1, the person removed will be the person whose term ends on July 1. So the Bill is very clear. It's simply carrying out the requirement that you all placed in the original legislation to require, as a means of fairness, that the Board be reapportioned every ten years. There's no reason to wait for another twо years when suburban Cook County has been crying out for its fair share of representation for the seven years that the RTA has been in existence. Let me also expressly urge the Members on the other side of the aisle who come from suburban Cook County and who come from the collar counties, and even those of you from downstate who have been exasperated at our inability to get a control on what we feel have been some of the exorbated expenses and some of the abuses of the Chicago Transit Authority. This reapportionment, at this time may be only a small, but it is an essential step, in trying to bring about a fair shake for the suburban areas and all the other areas of Illinois which have an interest in seeing that ve have some mass transportation but who also have an interest in seeing that it's provided on a fair and equitable basis. I urge your support for this important piece of legislation. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 329 pass'? All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. The Gentleman from Henderson, Representative Neff, to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. My good friend, Representative Garmisa, made some statements here that I'm sure he didn't intend it to be that way when he said we had an agreement that all Bills such as this would go into subcommittee. It is true that 50  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 we did put many of our Bills pertaining to RTA and CTA and transportation. This Bill was a different type of Bill. and, therefore; many of us felt that it should come out on the floor and have a chance to vote on it, and so we didn't... I just wanted you to know that we did not break any agreement because this Bill is different from the type of Bill. I resent that, Sparky, being accused of something that isn't right."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Deuster."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, as Member of the House Transportation Committee that heard this good proposal, I would like to indicate that there are Members on both sides of the aisle who really would want an RTA that is strong and fair, and an RTA that has the capacity and the will to control costs and to provide those necessary transportation services that everybody's been talking about are so critical. One reason RTA's been in trouble is because it's been unfair with respect to the control. This would put fairness in it and so I would think that those very thoughtful Members on both sides of the aisle who do want to strengthen RTA and get it through the crisis, ought to put their votes up there so we'll have a Board that is properly balanced, reflecting the principle of one person, one vote and more inclined to be economy minded and more inclined to be the kind of an RTA to control costs at the local level instead of running down here to Springfield asking for a bail-out time and time again."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Garmisa, to explain his vote."

"Mr. Speaker, first of all, I fail to see how this Board being reorganized and changed in the membership where the suburban areas might have stronger control over the Board 51  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 in itself rather than the Board as it's presently composed. I don't see where there would be any additional fairness attached to this type of Board, but you might have, of course, would be areas of disagreement as to where the proper funding would go. The Bill or the RTA structure is set up right now calls for the one, one vote proposition to take effect whenever we do have the certain terms as expiring. There's not a darn thing wrong with that when a member's term expires and the suburban areas do have an additional member or two, whatever the census count may show, coming to it. Then at that time there is no opposition from any fairminded Member as to that type of formula."

"Just a minute, Representative. For what purpose does the Lady from DuPage, Representative Karpiel, rise?"

"I object. I think the Representative spoke in debate."

"No, he's explaining his vote, and it's perfectly proper, Representative. Proceed, Representative Garmisa."

"So, Mr. Speaker, the... this Bill, trying to hurry the taking over of the RTA Board by July 1 when it may very well be that by July 1 we have not as yet or may not as yet come up with a Bill that would structure the RTA in the form that this present. Assembly would like to see the Board structured. This is one of the main facts that... or one of the main planks in the restructuring that will be coming up when we go into the restructuring of the RTA. And that, Hr. Speaker, should be left into the full package that this General Assembly will be considered...that we will be considering as a Committee of the Whole this Friday. This is happening tomorrow, so why pull this Bill out as of today? What's you hurry? Let's hear what the whole Bill... what the whole package would do and then, at that time, we'll know where we stand. Re..., the 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 restructuring or anything else that is provided for in trying to do away with the RTA as it is presently doing its business."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins, to explain your vote."

"No, not to explain my vote, Mr. Speaker, I'd just like to point out that under Rule 56B, the Gentleman was not entitled to explain his vote because he spoke in debate, and there's also a one minute time limit on explanation of vote."

"Point is well taken, Mr. Collins. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bullock."

"Mr. Speaker, I've noticed on the Republican side of the aisle some people have been running down the aisle pushing other persons switch, and if this receives the required number of votes, I am asking to be recognized for a verification."

"The Gentleman from Macon, Representative Dunn." Dunn, Jack: "I'd just... Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I just like to remind the Members who hope to have input into the solution of the RTA crisis that should this Bill pass, it'll make a nice vehicle which cleared one chamber and will be ready and available as a vehicle for this subject matter in the second chamber."

"Is there any further explanation of votes? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 99 voting aye, 39 voting no, and 25 voting present. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bullock. Representative Bullock."

"Mr. Speaker, will you ask the Members on your side of the aisle to follow House to decorum and be in their seats."

"Please be in your seats and follow House decorum, 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 you people on this side. What about the people on your side, Representative?"

"You'll have to check with my leader."

"r. Bullock, is that the purpose that you arose for?"

"No, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to..."

"State your purpose, will you please?"

"I'd like a verification of the affirmative votes, please."

"Gentleman asks for a verification of the affirmative vote. The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Barkhausen, asks for a poll of the absentees."

"Poll of the absentees."

"Poll the absentees."

"Chapman. DiPrima. Donovan. Henry. Kane. Martire. McClain. Mulcahey. Oblinger."

"Representative Mulcahey."

"Mr. Speaker, record me as voting no."

"Record the Gentleman as voting no."

"Schneider. Stearney. Tuerk. White. And Yourell."

"Representative McClain requests to be voted no. Call the Affirmative Roll Call, Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of the Affirmative. Abramson. Ackerman. Alstat. Barkhausen. Barnes. Bartulas. Bell. Bianco. Birkinbine. Bluthardt. Boucek. Bower. Christensen. Collins. Conti. Daniels. Davis. Deuchler. Deuster. Jack Dunn. Ralph Dunn. Ebbesen. Ewing. Fawell. Findley. Virginia Frederick. Dwight Friedrich. Griffin. Grossi. Hallock. Hallstrom. Hanahan. Hannig. Hastert. Hoffman. Hoxsey. Hudson. Huskey. Jackson. Johnson. Karpiel. Jim Kelley. Dick Kelly. Klemm. Kociolko. Koehler. Kucharski. Kustra. Leinenweber. Macdonald. 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 Margalus. Matijevich. Mautino. Mays. McAuliffe. McBroom. McCourt. McCormick. McGrew. McMaster. Roland Meyer. Miller. Murphy. Neff. Nelson. O'Connel. Ozella. Pechous. Peters. Piel. Polk. Pullen. Reed. Reilly. Rigney. Robbins. Ropp. Saltsman. Schraeder. Schuneman. Irv Smith. Stanley. Steczo. E.G. Steele. C.M. Stiehl. Swanstrom. Tate. Telcser. Topinka. Van Duyne. Vinson. Watson. Wikoff. Winchester. J.J. Wolf. Woodyard. Zito. Zwick. And, Mr. Speaker."

"Representative Bullock, do you have any questions of the Affirmative Roll Call?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative Bartulas."

"Representative Bartulas. Gentleman's in his seat."

"Representative Bell. Representative Johnson."

"Representative Johnson on the floor? Is Representative Johnson on the floor? How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"Gentleman's recorded as voting aye."

"Take him off the Roll Call."

"Representative Jack Dunn."

"Gentleman's in his seat right here in front."

"Where?"

"Right there."

"Ebbesen."

"Representative Ebbesen? Is Representative Ebbesen on the floor? How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman's recorded as voting aye."

"Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Hannig."

"Representative Hannig on the floor? Representative Hannig on the floor? How is the Gentleman recorded?" 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981

"Gentleman's recorded as voting aye."

"Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Grossi. Grossi."

"Put Representative Hannig back on the Roll Call, please. Representative Grossi. Representative Grossi on the floor? He's in his chair."

"Representative Hudson."

"Representative Hudson on the floor? Right here. On your side."

"Representative Pechous."

"Representative Pechous on the floor? Representative Pechous on the floor? Remove the Gentleman from the Roll Call... How's the Gentleman voted."

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting aye."

"Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative McGrew."

"Representative McGrew on the floor? Gentleman's in his seat."

"Representative Mays."

"Representative Mays is in his seat."

"Representative Kustra."

"Gentleman is in his chair."

"Representative Stanley."

"Representative Stanley is in his chair."

"Representative Ozella."

"Representative Ozella on the floor? How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"Gentleman is recorded as voting aye."

"Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Steczo."

"Representative Stęczo on the floor? Representative Steczo. How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"Gentleman's recorded as voting aye." 56  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day

"Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Hanahan." March 26, 1981

"Is Representative Hanahan on the floor? How's the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman's recorded as voting aye."

"Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Murphy."

"Is Representative Murphy on the floor? Representative Murphy. How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"Gentleman's recorded as voting aye."

"Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Saltsman."

"Representative Saltsman on the floor? How's the Gentleman recorded?"

"Gentleman's recorded as voting aye."

"Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Ropp."

"Representative Ropp on the floor? Representative Ropp is here."

"Representative McMaster."

"Gentleman's in his chair."

"Mr. Speaker, what's the count?"

"What's the count, Mr. Clerk? Put Representative Pechous back on the Roll Call, will you, Mr. Clerk? Further challenges, Representative?"

"Representative Polk."

"Representative Polk. In the back, Representative. He's there."

"Did you indicate to the Clerk... Could the Clerk provide me with the... Where we stand on the verification, Mr. Speaker?"

"Ninety-two aye, 41 no, Representative."

"Okay. I just have a few more, Mr. Speaker." 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day

"Proceed, please."

"Representative Leinenweber."

"Representative Gentleman's in the back." March 26, 1981 Leinenweber in the chamber?

"These guy's got to stay in their seats, Mr. Speaker. Representative Vinson."

"In his chair."

"No more verifications, Mr. Speaker."

"On this Bill there are 92 voting aye, 41 voting no, and this Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. This is the Gentleman's first Bill. House Bill 333, Representative Steele. Out of the record. House Bill 337, Representative Mautino. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 337, a Bill for an Act relating to the use of guide dogs by deaf persons. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Mautino."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Representative Jane Barnes and myself have introduced this legislation on behalf of the deaf people in the State of Illinois to put into our state statute the exact posture and provisions that are allowed for guide dogs for the blind to be instituted for guide dogs for the deaf. It's enacted in approximately 32 other states in the union. Presented by the 'Pilot' Clubs of American which is an organization of civic and social volunteers of the female persuasion. It's a good piece of legislation and it does exactly what I have recommended, that it addresses those same statute that guide dogs for the blind are concerned. In the Committee consideration was given for an Amendment but the Department of Location and Rehabilitation and the Administration said they do not 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 18th Legislative Day now need the Amendment and we ask for your favorable support and we'll be happy to answer any questions on the Bill."

"Is there any discussion? Question is, 'Shall House Bill 337 pass'? All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 154 voting aye, none voting no, none voting present and this Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 372, Representative Birkinbine. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 372, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Insurance Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Birkinbine on House Bill 37..."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 372 repeals a prohibition against insurance companies making political contributions. Presently, in Illinois, there are prohibitions against only two types of companies that can make such contributions; insurance companies and companies that own race tracks. In the past, there have been additional prohibitions such against liquor licensees but they have been removed in the past. I think it was in 1978 that we removed the prohibition against liquor licensees. The Bill, as it is now, does not apply to insurance agents in the state. It does not apply to parent are holding companies such as Sears and Roebuck which is a holding company of Allstate, and it does not apply to nearly a third of the roughly 600 insurance companies in this state which are local mutual districts or county and township insurance companies. Basically, what it impacts on are the medium sized companies who either do not have their own political action committees or are not covered by the Bill. Of all the 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 industries that the state tends to regulate such as savings and loans, banks, currency exchanges, liquor licensees, public utilities, loan companies, you name it, it seems odd that we've jumped on two particular businesses to say, 'You can't make political contributions', and this Bill is designed to remove that."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Stearney."

"Will the Gentleman yield?" Speaker Ryan; "Indicates he will."

"Can you tell us the reason, the rational for the enactment of the Bill some years ago?"

"For this Bill?"

"Yes."

"Because there's a prohibition against insurance companies making political contributions and there are some insurance companies who are saying, 'Why can't we when virtually every other company can?'."

"No, you've missed the point of the question, Mr. Birkinbine. The question is, what was the rational originally passing this legislation to ban contribution by insurance companies?"

"I don't know."

"Alright. I may suggest the reason for doing so is that because of the inordinate amount of power that the insurance industry can exercise in this General Assembly, namely, they are not only multi-million dollar corporations, but they are billion dollar a year corporations. And because of that power, that money that they have, they can afford to buy up the entire Legislature. That was the original thought, the rational, behind that. Now what reason should we... What reason do you pose to exempt them from that original rational?" 60  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981

"You're asking me why we should remove this?"

"Yes. Why should we ... them to have this power?"

"The companies that you're thinking of are the Allstate's, the CNA's, the Kemper's, the Prudential's, all the major companies. They have their own political action committees. They presently have corporate policies that they do not make company contributions. The people who ... The companies that are affected by this Act now tend to be the medium size companies that do not have pacts and are little different in size and financial wherewithall than a lot of your medium size businesses in the state. Be they financially oriented or not."

"Well, how is it that Allstate can have a pact now, but these other companies cannnot? Why is that?"

"They can, but in medium size or small companies it doesn't make sense to set up a pact. I doubt that Representative Kosinski with his jewelry company has his own pact because there are relatively few people working there, and yet his company has the right to be able to make a contribution."

"Well, how many insurance companies would this effect in Illinois?"

"Roughly 400 out of the 600 or so that are covered."

"Can't these 400 form a pact now just as Allstate has done?"

"Yes, they can."

"What?"

"Yes, they can. Anybody can."

"What's the purpose of changing the law if they can already do it?"

"Because pacts tend to be effective when you've got a lot of people involved such as large corporations or such as unions, such as a large association perhaps like this 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 here. Perhaps you'd like to start a Legislators pact."

"I can't understand why you would want to do such a thing if they already have the power to do it."

"Well, every single company with the exception of insurance companies and race track owners have the ability to start a pact but also have the right to make political contributions. The exception, for some reason, seems to be these medium size insurance companies and it's interesting and instructive just to open the phone book and look for the different insurance companies. I never realized how many there were, but the Springfield book alone has hundreds of small insurance companies that are basically and medium size businesses. They would like to contribute the same way any other small or medium size business can and presently they're not allowed to."

"I have no other questions, but I see no reason for the passage of a Bill if they're already allowed to do something."

"The Gentleman from Wayne, Representative Robbins. Representative Robbins, do you seek recognition?"

"I would like to stand in favor of this Bill because we have SO many insurance companies which are conglomerates and are in other businesses and the other business can contribute, and I think that this is a good Bill because it allows an insurance company that is just an insurance company to do this. And I think that we should vote aye on it."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Stewart."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in opposition to this Bill. The insurance industry and its regulation is left almost entirely to state government. The insurance, as was well pointed out, is affluent, is very wealthy, and I think that this Bill 62  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 provides an opportunity for, let's say, the parents of or perhaps actually in concrete term, buying out of an undue influence of regulation of the insurance industry should it be allowed to make political contributions. I think it's a direct conflict of interest and I would urge a no vote."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Sandquist."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in support of this Bill and I'd like to give you a few reasons why. The things that Representative Stearney raised and that Representative Stewart raised may have been true at one time. The insurance companies maybe did have a big influence and they were able to influence votes, but this is true of any kind of a business that's regulated. And we've got different laws on our books now. We have disclosure laws and any contributions have to be reported so that they stand in the same position as anyone else. And insurance companies shouldn't be secondclass citizens more than anyone else. And I believe with our disclosure laws they should have the right to contribute just as any other company that's regulated by the state or the... or any of the local agencies. Therefore, I compliment Representative Birkinbine and I think we should have an aye vote."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Rather.....everyone of us know in Illinois that the insurance companies and the Department of Insurance are in bed together. I don't think that we should be asked to legitimatize this rather illicit relationship. And, for that reason, I'm against Mr. Birkinbine's Bill. I think it should be defeated overwhelmingly."

"Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Giorgi." 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day

"Mr. Speaker, a March 26, 1981 couple of terms ago I introduced this Bill and ... I don't think I could get it out of the House because of suspicions that it wasn't an honest Bill. I think Sandquist, Representative Sandquist and I introduced it two years ago. I'm going to support this Bill because of our disclosure laws, but I want to say here and now that I think the insurance industry is the strongest lobby on the Springfield scene. We haven't been able to pass a Bill to inhibit insurance companies rotten operations since I've been down here. In fact, in the last three or four Sessions out of 150 Bills introduced, only three or four became law. But I'm going to support you because of our disclosure Act but not because I have any respect for the insurance companies."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Birkinbine, to close. Excuse me just a minute. I didn't see you, Representative Pierce, did you care to be recognized? Representative Pierce."

"Mr. Speaker, maybe the light isn't working because it wasn't at an earlier time today. But I want to say, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Stearney, asked a very legitimate question of the Sponsor. How did this come about originally? Another reason it came about was there were some people who when they bought their life insurance premiums like to think that those premiums were going to be applied to pay their benefits to their widows and orphans when they die and not to go into some political slush fund so that a few insurance companies can influence the election of public officials in Illinois. And the most dangerous companies are the small companies. Those are the ones that go under. Those are the ones that have gone under regularly in Illinois leaving people uninsured. Why should an insurance company take my premium that is 64  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 supposedly... that is supposedly going to be there for my widow or orphan when I die to provide benefits and run around making political contributions so they can influence the Legislature in part of their insurance to give them breaks. That's why they give local contributions. They don't give political contributions because they're interested necessarily in the future of the two party system or the benefits of the environment or the future of the republic. An insurance company gives political contributions because it wants to influence legislation or action by the Department of Insurance. Now, Clement Stone now can give millions out of his own pocket and that's alright. He's a citizen. You pass this Bill and he give millions out of the company. His company may be sound, but there are some companies in Illinois that are not as sound and that are borderlined and that are shaky. And if these insurance companies start... it's usually the weakest ones that try to influence the Department of Insurance and the Legislature, and if they start giving political contributions we may find ourselves like Texas in a big insurance scandal that involves the General Assembly as well as the Executive Department. That's the reason why there's been a prohibition in the Illinois Insurance Code for many, many decades against direct political contributions by insurance companies. That's your premium money there. Do you want it to go for political contributions or do you want it to go to the beneficiaries of your policy?"

"The Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson."

"I move the previous question."

"Gentleman moves the previous question. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The ayes have it. The motion prevails. Gentleman from Cook, 65  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 18th Legislative Day Representative Birkinbine, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I recognize that anytime you talk about something involving the insurance industry you're dealing with one of those industries that a great many people love to hate. But I'd remind you again that we help regulate a number of industries in this state, be they savings and loans, banks, currency exchanges, liquor licensees, loan companies. All of those companies, many of whom some people have knee-jerk reactions against because of a bad experience or a bad reputation. All of them have the right to make political contributions. I see no reason why insurance companies, particularly since we're dealing here with primarily medium size companies who are affected by the law should not have that same right. I'd ask for an affirmative vote."

"The question is 'Shall House Bill 372 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all those opposed by voting 'no'. Gentleman from Cook, Representative Levin, to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I remember this Bill four years ago. As Representative Giorgi indicated, the Bill was introduced and it did pass both Houses and went to the Governor, the same Governor we currently have and that Governor, I believe, vetoed this legislation. We haven't heard that he has changed his position, and I think we need, on this matter, to support this Governor and, for this reason, I'm voting against this Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Conti, to explain his vote."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I don't know how many times we have to go through this. For almost eight years there was so much litigation in the County of Cook because of tavern keepers, restaurants that 66  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 were unable....anyone who held a liquor license was not able to make any political contributions or even to participate in the election process. And by prohibiting certain individuals or certain companies, that doesn't make an honest politician or a dishonest politician. When you foreclose anyone from participating in an election process, I think you're doing them a very serious injustice. Don't look at what company is doing business, what company is regulated by the state. Any particular laws that you pass in this House is not going to make an honest or a dishonest person. You can't legislate morality. The intention of this Bill are very well founded. He's to be congratulated to make everyone participate in the election process. And that's what this Bill is doing, and I am surprised and shocked to see that we haven't got over a hundred votes on this board."

"Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Mulcahey."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. It wasn't too many years ago that I received a letter from one of the insurance companies in the State of Illinois and they said, 'Representative Mulcahey, despite the fact that over 50% of the time you do support out legislation in Springfield, we are not going to make any political contributions to you or any other Democrats this year or any other year. Not because you're against us, but because we're against basically the Democratic platform'. If that's the way they want to play their game, I'll play the game the same way with a red vote."

"Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich."

"Mr. Speaker, for the life of me, I can't see any difference betweenthe insurance companies being able to contribute than the oil companies, the railroads, the loan 67  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GE GENERAL AS ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 They are people companies, the banks, or anyone else. operating in this state. They are taxpayers in this state. They're certainly citizens of this state, and if they're doing something wrong, prosecute them and put them in jail. But making a campaign contribution certainly is not a crime as far as I'm concerned."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this issue there are 90 voting yes, 44 voting no, and 19 voting present. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 373, Representative Sandquist.. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 373, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of an Act relating to alcoholic liquors. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Sandquist."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this is a Bill that I had last year with Representative DiPrima. We passed it almost unanimously in the House and it went over to the Senate and died down in their Rules Committee last year. What this Bill does is to preserve the three tear system in the sale of alcoholic beverages. It means that you cannot go and buy from the.... an individual cannot go and buy from the distributor and thereby pass up the retailer. It has the support of all of the elements in the liquor industry. It has the support of the Illinois Liquor Control Commission, and what it does by preventing these sales, the state does not lose the sales tax on the sale itself. And, therefore; I ask a favorable vote."

"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Kelly."

"Yes, Leroy. I would like to ask you one question. For 68  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 instance, at a political picnic for any one of us that may sponsor one, could we, under this legislation, go and buy that beverage from them, or would that be a... present a problem?"

"You cannot buy from a distributor. You can buy from a retailer, but if there is a sale involved from a distributor, it would eliminate that."

"Well, I usually buy, I know, beer through a... from the distributor rather than through a retailer. And, to me quite frank, I get a little better price and so forth. And I guess that would be eliminated. Okay. Fine."

"The Lady from DuPage, Representative Karpiel."

"Yes, will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Indicates he will."

"Representative, you said alcoholic beverages. My staff analysis only refers to beer. Does this included wine also?"

"No, I'm sorry, I misspoke. This is beer we're talking about."

"Okay. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Giorgi."

"Mr. Sandquist, what's the penalty if you buy from the wholesaler and you're caught with the beer?"

"What is the penalty? It would be violation of the Dram Shop Act and be subject to a citation of the Illinois Liquor Control Commission."

"You're subject to what?"

"A citation by the Illinois Liquor Control Commission. Then whatever... They would investigate it and whatever facts they would come up with and they could either revoke or suspend the license or have a fine."

"How much of a fine?" 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 18th Legislative Day

"Well, there's a limitation of 500 dollars is the tops per violation."

"Okay. And in the even that happened, there are about 60 or 70 lawyers in the House, would they be in conflict of interest if they defended me, for example, if I bought the beer from a wholesaler? Would they be in conflict if I hired them to defend me?"

"I don't see how they'd be in conflict. If they would want to defend you, that's their problem."

"They want to vote on this Bill, then... and they're going to secure a fee for defending a person, wouldn't they be in conflict because this is a make work Bill for lawyers maybe?"

"Well, if it's a make work Bill for lawyers, I don't want any lawyers to hold their breath thinking they're going to make any money on this Bill."

"Gentleman from Whiteside, Representative Schuneman."

"Question of the Sponsor, Mr. Speaker."

"Indicates he'll answer."

"Representative, as I understand the Bill, what this does is prohibit the wholesale purchase of beer. Is that true, by a consumer?"

"That is correct."

"Well, I don't quite understand the principle involved here. We don't prohibit the wholesale purchase of furniture or appliances, or office furniture, or automobiles. What other products in our society do we have laws on the books which prohibit the wholesale purchase? Can you name any other?"

"I don't want to name any other because I'm not really sure, but I do know that in the retailer... in a liquor business, we've had a three tear system in this country for 70  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 as long, since the 1934 and especially in this state. And it is very important. And don't forget that the liquor tax is paid by the distributor, but the sales tax is not. The sales tax is paid by the retailer and that's what we're losing if we would allow these sales to go on."

"Mr. Speaker, may I speak to the Bill?"

"Proceed."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, there may be a lot that I don't know about this Bill, but it seems to me that what the Sponsor is asking us to do is treat the beer industry in a special way, certainly different from every other industry in this state where consumers have the right and sometimes they get a break on the price by purchasing products from wholesalers direct rather than through the retailer. I know of no other retailing business in this state that has this kind of statutory protection. Seems to me inconsistent with our other laws and I urge a no vote."

"Representative Terzich, would you come to the podium, please? The Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think I had better explain some clarifying language to what Representative Sandquist is doing. The existing law states that an alcoholic distributor cannot sell to anyone who does not have an R.O.T. sales tax number. Now an individual person does not have an R.O.T. sales tax number. This is not a large problem in the industry, but there is about that half of one percent that may get involved in this process. So, therefore, that is not a problem. You must have a sales tax number to purchase. Number two and in response to Representative Kelly's question, most social agencies purchase a one, two, 71  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 or three day temporary license from the state and from the city in which they're going to hold their event thereby being covered as R.O.T. and dram shop. This legislation addresses only the purchase of individual items from a wholesaler which is now basically prohibited with in the industry because I think that every distributor and every manufacturer wants to make sure that the sale goes through a retailer, because that's why they're in business. It's not a bad Bill. It is a good Bill. It is not a piece of legislation that's directly benefiting wholesalers because wholesalers don't want to do it now and they don't it.. They want to sell only to established retailers that have R.O.T. sales tax numbers. It's a good Bill, and it will insure the collection of the sales tax as well. What this Bill does is prohibit the wholesaler from selling to someone who does not have a retail license. It's a good piece of legislation."

"Gentleman from Perry, Representative Dunn." Dunn, Ralph: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if the Sponsor would yield?"

"Indicates he will."

"Down in our area of the state there's picnics all summer and I see the beer distributors have trailers that they pull up to the church yard and to the May Fest and ... Fest and the October Fest. Would this stop this from occuring and there'd have to be a retailer inbetween the distributor who brings his trailer in or how would that be handled, Representative?"

"Well, I think, as Representative Mautino said, on these couple of day passes for these picnics they could go ahead and do that. They're not making a sale so that wouldn't be a problem."

"Someone's making a sale because I see a lot of people 72  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 lined up buying it and it's not a retailer, it's a wholesaler selling it. This is what I was asking about."

"You mean the wholesalers selling bottles to the..."

"I think it's more likely to be draft beer in these trailers and they bring it up and they sell it. I think they probably go through the church or through the May Fest Committee or something, but certainly there's not a retailer involved unless you would count the church as being the retailer."

"Well, I..."

"It worries me as to whether as to whether this would interfere with that. Otherwise, I have no objections. I think that it's been explained pretty good."

"It certainly isn't meant to interfere with that."

"Thank you."

"I don't believe it does."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Sandquist, to close. Excuse me. Just a minute. Representative Stuffle, Gentleman from Coles."

"Yes, would the Sponsor yield? Representative Sandquist, this is just... Is this the dock sale Bill that we had before?"

"Yes."

"And it doesn't deal with the courtesy wagons which are regulated by the Commerce or by the Liquor Control Commission at all which is the question that..."

"That is correct."

"Okay. Thank you, very much."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Sandquist, to close."

"Yes, all this Bill does is to put beer in the same position as hard liquor and wines in the sale to the 73  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 public. It keeps the three tear system so the public when they go in to buy the beer will have to go to a retailer. The state will collect the sales tax. It does not do away with any of the courtesy things, as Representative Stuffle has said. I think it's a good thing and I'd ask an aye vote."

"Question is, 'Shall House Bill 373 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all oppose by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this issue there are 92 voting aye, 53 voting no, and 9 voting present, and this Bill having received the Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser, for an announcement."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, we're going to adjourn shortly until 9:45 tomorrow morning at which time we'll resolve ourself into a Committee of Whole in order to hear the transportation Bills that were introduced earlier this week. It's our intent to give everyone who wishes the opportunity to come and discuss this issue at the Committee of the Whole. Therefore, we are also providing for time on Saturday, should the need arise. It is also within the realm of possibility that we would be moving to the Order of Second Reading Saturday and or Sunday. All I can tell you is we will have more to announce tomorrow regarding the schedule for the next few days."

"For what purpose does the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan, rise?"

"Question of the Parliamentarian."

"Proceed."

"After the Bill is moved out of the Committee of the Whole and onto the Calendar, will it be placed on the Order 74  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 of Second Reading, First Legislative Day? Would you like Mr. Epstein to help you?"

"Turn Mr. Madigan's mic off. No... No... Second Reading. On the order of Second Reading, Representative. Representative Madigan."

"Second Reading, First Legislative Day or Second Legislative Day?"

"First Day."

"Now, Mr. Speaker, I wish to state for the benefit of the Members that if there is a motion by you or Mr. Telcser to suspend the rule and to eliminate the First Legislative Day on Second Reading that I will resist that motion. And if you plan a hearing anytime over the weekend you can expect that there will not be a full attendance and that means that I'll have a good chance of success in resisting that motion. So just to develop a possible schedule, if you have a Committee of the Whole on Friday and one on Saturday and then you're thinking in terms of an Amendment stage on Sunday, I vill resist that motion with a good chance of success which means that you're Amendment stage cannot occur until Monday. And I'm only saying that to you in advance for the benefit of the Members. You did not tell the Members at the beginning of this week that they would be expected to stay in Springfield through the weekend. There are people right now rearranging plans that were made months ago. People are actually traveling to Chicago to get clothes and bring them back down here and when they return to Springfield they may be told that we will not, in fact, be in Session over the weekend. As you complained many times when you were the Minority Leader, you are under obligation to establish a schedule which is best as possible makes life pleasant for the Members of this House." 75  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981

"Is that a reciprical agreement, Representative? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, regarding the Minority Leader's comments. Let me first say, I have no idea at this moment what if any motions would or would not be put Saturday, Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday. I'm really dissappointed, however; to listen to the Minority Leader describe to us the poor attendance that will take place this weekend. Let me simply say to the Minority Leader that Speaker Ryan and the Members on this side of the aisle recognize the very, very serious, critical problem which we, in Illinois, face regarding transportation. Now everyone of us ran for this office knowing full well we will discharge our responsibility as we see it to the citizens of Illinois. And we know from time to time we're going to be inconvenienced. That comes with the territory. So, I only hope that the Minority Leader will change his mind regarding his remarks a few moments ago and encourage his Members to participate with us in trying to sit down and resolve this very, very critical, difficult problem. There are major differences among people on both sides of the aisle on this question. There are difference among people from various parts of the state. It's going to take time, effort, understanding, and a willingness to participate. When this Session started, the day we were sworn in, the Minority Leader led his Members off of the floor in some sort of tempermental peak and in doing so, I'm afraid, he set the tone of the Session. But once again, Speaker Ryan and I and the Republican Members are extending out to you the opportunity to work together to solve the problems which face Illinois. I'm going to be here the next few days. Speaker Ryan will be here. Every one of our Members who possibly can, I 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 believe it will be the vast majority of the Members on our side of the aisle will participate in helping to solve this problem. And I hope the Minority Leader changes him mind and I hope that we see enough Members of the Democratic Party present, listening to the testimony on Friday and Saturday so we can do what we were elected to do; solve Illinois' problems. And I invite the Minority Leader to participate. This is not a one sided event."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan, for what purpose do you rise?"

"I have already encouraged the Members on this side of the aisle to attend all Sessions of the Legislature including the Sessions which have been scheduled for tomorrow and through the weekend. I have stood ready, willing, and able to work on this problem from the very beginning of the Session. Certainly, I will not shirk by duty. I am sure that no Member on this side of the aisle will shirk their duty. But, Mr. Majority Leader, you were a Member of this Body, as a matter of fact, you were a part of the click in the days of Speaker Blair and those of us who were Members under that reign of tyranny never again, never again wish to see the abuse of rules that we saw under Speaker Blair and the Dave 'Ryes', the legislation that was so inimical to the interest of the people of this state. And what I'm saying to you, we recognize this is a critical problem. We know that we must move expeditiously, but we are going to move in a fair and open manner and everyone is going to be given an opportunity and we're not talking about the question of days. We can afford one or two days to give people an opportunity to read Bills and give other people an opportunity to testify and to point out the flaws in Bills. But I'm saying to you, Mr. Majority Leader, and to you Mr. 77  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 18th Legislative Day Speaker, that this side of the aisle as it stands ready to work whatever hours are necessary, we will resist any effort to ram through this Body a Bill which has not been given good public scrutiny before it passes on."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Lechowicz, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, in all fairness I believe the schedule should be adopted. A schedule was presented to the Membership that they would be in Session Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. We supported the Majority Leaders motion yesterday for a Committee of the Whole for Friday, but in all fairness, Mr. Speaker, I believe that the Membership, both Democrats and Republicans, Independents, as long they are Members of this General Assembly, you should have the decency to tell us whether we're going to be in Session Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. And I think, in all fairness to our families and to the concerned public, they should be made aware of the fact as well. I personally believe, Mr. Speaker, you're doing a disservice to all of us if you proceed in this vein in trying to ram-rod a Bill through without enough public scrutiny , without proper debate on Amendments, without full participation of an item that is of this magnitude effecting every citizen in this State. Mr. Speaker, I implore you that you address yourself to your Majority Leader and come in with a definite schedule that we can all follow, Democrats and Republicans alike, and go proceed to move about the serious business on transportation, including roads, downstate bridges, and mass transit. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Sangamon, Representative Kane, Kane: for what purpose do you rise?" "Parliamentary Inquiry." 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 18th Legislative Day

"Proceed."

"Under Rule 31D it says, 'upon the adoption of a motion to report a Bill or Resolution referred to at the Committee of the Whole shall report the matter without recommendation'. Is that automatic or will that require a certain vote? And if so, how much?"

"Yes, Representative, had you read on, I believe it says, 'upon the...'. On 31 D, 'upon the adoption of a -motion to report a Bill or Resolution referred to it'. So the Committee will make a motion."

"What vote will the adoption of that motion take? There are... There has been precedents that a Bill in a Committee of the Whole is reported automatically when the Committee of the Whole arises and I don't recall a motion to report a Bill. What form does that motion take and what vote would be required to report it?"

"The majority of those voting, Representative."

"There will be a motion then to report and it would take a majority of those voting to report it?"

"Correct."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan, for what purpsoe do you rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, your last ruling is another point that should be understood by the Membership. What it means is that if you concluded your Committee of the Whole on Saturday, you may not have enough votes to get your Bill out of the Committee of the Whole. And then there would be no need for contemplating a Sunday Floor Session for Second Reading."

"House... On page four of the Calendar under House Bills, Third Reading appears House Bill 379, Representative Lechowicz. The Gentleman... just a minute, 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day Representative. The Gentleman from March 26, 1981. Winnebago, Representative Giorgi, for what purpose do you rise?"

"To further question the Majority Leader inasmuch as you and the Majority Leader called this Committee of the Whole. Did you notify the administrators of the RTA and the CTA and invite them to come down for the meeting, Mr. Telcser?"

"Representative Telcser."

"Representative, our office is notifying all of the an people that we can possibly think of who have expressed interest in the issue to come and attend and participate in the Committee of the Whole. I could not recite you at this moment the list of the people of organizations whom we have contacted."

"That's good enough. That's good enough."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Greiman, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, a parliamentary inquiry. I think I did not understand what the meaning of 'without recommendation' is when we arise from the Committee of the Whole. What are ve voting on? If the Bill passes without recommendation, what is it precisely that we are voting on?"

"To quote a former Speaker, Representative, 'You never greet the devil in the morning until you've met him'. We'll get to that point..."

"You just made a..."

"... address that question."

"You responded to Representative Kane and I'm asking for a parliamentary inquiry and expect what the meaning of that is. Now you've ruled... you're Parliamentarian suggested that we will have a vote on something at the time that we arise from the Committee of the Whole. I'm merely asking since there is no recommendation, what will we be voting on? What would we be considering?" 80  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 18th Legislative Day

"A motion..." Greiman; "I think I'm entitled to know what..."

"A motion to report the Bill to the House."

"We report without recommendation. What does that mean, sir?"

"Well, Rule 31D, Representative, reads, 'upon the adoption of a motion to report a Bill or Resolution referred to it'. So, I think I've explained that at least to my satisfaction. Representative Matijevich, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to tell the Majority Leader, first of all, I've looked at the Calendar and we adopted this Committee of the Whole yesterday and I think it was your obligation to put that on the Calendar to give notice to everybody. There are some people who rely on the daily Calendar for Committee notices. That appears nowhere on the Calendar. You didn't want to appear on the Calendar because you want your designees to appear their tomorrow. That's all you want. I notified my County Chairman because I thought he ought to be here. He's out of town. My County Chairman can't be here and represent the interests of the County Board of Lake County and the people of Lake County as the County Board Chairman. That's the difficulty in this hurry-up process. Now, I think also that we ought to know whether it's going to be a simple majority to refer to this matter after the Committee of the Whole to Second Reading or whether it will be 89, and I think you Republican Members ought to know that your attendance is going to be good, I believe. You're all going to tow the mark.. So what's going to happen? Are all of you going to be on record for that Thompson tax proposition? That's what's going to happen. I've found at the RTA's select Committee last night and by the way Kramer has offered the 81  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 date when we're going to face the closing now is April 11. We still don't have that much of an emergency that we've got to run and ram this through over the weekend. But you. first-termers had better look out because they're relying on the fact that you first-termers and don't realize that it can be jammed down your throat with a lot of pressure and then after it's done and the damage has been done, you're already on record."

"Bring your remarks to a close will you, Representative."

"You better watch out for that. I think it's all a charade. It's not good responsible government, and I think that you people are going to be sorry for it. When the pump price goes up no matter what you are going to get blamed for it."

"Just a minute, Representative. For what purpose do you rise, Representative Collins?"

"Turn me off."

"To a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I don't know what prompted this political speech but it's certainly out of order."

"Point is well taken. The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson." Johnson: r. Speaker, could I have... I know it requires unanimous leave to be recorded. I was an aye and verified off on 329 and I was sick and layed down for a couple of minutes and I guess they verified me off. I'd thought I'd talked to someone about who was doing the verification, but I wonder if I could.... I wouldn't change the results. Could I be back on I?"

"You have to come to the well and... That was a verified Roll Call."

"I understand that. It's not going to change the 82  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE results and I voted and..." "Gentleman asks leave to be changed."

"It wouldn't be changed. wouldn't change anything."

"Is there leave granted?"

"Thank you."

"There have been March 26, 1981. It was just a yes and it objections raised, Johnson: Representative." "Where are the objections? Just. I just want to remember so if anybody has a similar request that we can do the same thing. Who is objecting? Okay. Thanks."

"On the Calendar on page four under the Order of House Bill, Third Reading appears House Bill 379, Representative Lechowicz. Out of the record.. House Bill 382, Representative Stuffle. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 382, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Pension Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Stuffle."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Members. House Bill 382 is a very simple Bill, approved unanimously by the House Pension Committee. It provides in the Downstate Police Pension Article the same language regarding exemption from the 'guardagement' process and attachment for refunds, pensions, and disability benefits, and that system has existed in 16 other pension systems in the state. I know of no opposition and I would ask for favorable Roll Call." a

"Is there any discussion? The question is, 'Shall House Bill 382 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 143 voting aye, none voting no, none voting present, and this Bill having received the 83  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 419, Representative Lechowicz. Out of the record. House Bill 425, Representative Bradley. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 425, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to airport authorities. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Bradley."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. What House Bill 425 does is it addresses itself to the loss of the assessed valuation for local taxing districts when we lost the ... when the taxing districts lost the taxable personal property on corporations and businesses throughout Illinois and throughout the local taxing district. We passed a Bill here in the 81st General Assembly, House Bill 2730 that authorized an increase of approximately 15% in the maximum bonded indebtedness for units of local government. We amended in one Section of the statutes under 68-14A bond limitations that deal with airport authorities and we increase that from 2% to 2.3%. However, in the other Section under the referendum on bonds on 68-14 which deals with the airport authorities we failed to increase a 15% to 3/4 to...from 3/4% to .865. What we're attempting to do here is make a correction so that the statutes will read the same in both Sections and we did this for other taxing units. The park districts and so forth and I just want to put the statutes in the proper order and make it read the same in both Sections regarding airport authorities. It came out of the Committee unanimously and I ask for your support on the floor of the House."

"Is there any discussion? The Lady from Cook, Representative Pullen."

"I'd like to ask the Sponsor a question." 84  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day

"Proceed." March 26, 1981.

"Does this increase in the debt limit apply for bonds that are not subject to referendum?"

"Yes. From .75 to .865 for only airport authorities."

"This would increase the limit for bonds without referendum?"

"That's correct. The same as we did for other taxing districts such as the park districts when there was the loss of the assessed valuation base when those districts lost the personal property on corporations and businesses. And we did amend, as I said, part of the code that affected airport authorities. We did not amend the bonding Section."

"Wasn't it only for referendum bonds and the other units of government though? Wasn't it only for referendum bonds that that was done in the other units of government?"

"I can't honestly answer that. Representative Bullock is nodding no."

"No, which."

"The Lady from DuPage, Representative Karpiel. Are you finished, Representative Pullen? Representative Karpiel."

"Well, I think Representative Pullen asked primarily what I was going to ask. It's just that I think that the amount that taxing districts could issue without referendum was unchanged in the legislation and this is giving the airport authorities an increased debt which these authorities can incur without referendum that the other districts do not now have. I think there are two parts to this Bill. One to make it a technical change and one is increasing their debt possibilities without referendum."

"Representative Bradley."

"Yes, if I might respond if that was a question I assume 85  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th. Legislative Day March 26, 1981 that it was, I don't think that we are allowing an increase at all in their ability to collect money from total assessed valuation. They are lost, there was a direct loss to the taxing districts with the elimination of the corporate personal property tax on corporations and businesses. In order to, when we thought there was about a 15% loss, in order to put them back at the same base that they originally were prior to that loss we're making the change in two separate..or really in only one area of the Act. t. The 2% was changed to 2.3 as I said in one Section. The 75...the 3/4 of 1% was not increased 15% and that's what we're doing with this legislation. But they were not giving them...they're not going to be able to do any more than they could before."

"Well, except that now because there..it's raised to .865% they would have to have a referendum because any debt over .75% of the total assessed valuation does need referendum approval?"

"No. The airport authorities are a little bit different on referendum too. They are limited even by referendum in the statute. This does allow them to go to .865 on a smaller tax base than they had or I shouldn't say smaller on approximately the same tax base that they had under the 3/4%."

"Thank you. There seems to be some confusion with our staff analysis then,"

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bullock."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps I might be able to clear up for Representative Karpiel and Representative Pullen the previous question. As a Sponsor of what was in House Bill 2730, which has subsequently been enacted in the law. What ve attempted to do with that Bill, Representative Karpiel, it was in response to the abolition 86  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 of the corporate personal property tax and we attempted to increase the bonded indebtedness of certain districts in Illinois to offset that loss. Inadvertently in the legislation we did not include this specific authority whichis the airport authority that some downstaters have expressed concern about. And consequently, the Sponsor of this measure is attempting to do no less than that which has already been granted on to what was on House Bill 2730, which is to increase the appropriate bonded indebtedness limit. That's merely what the Bill does."

"The Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson."

"Move the previous question."

"The Gentleman moves the previous question. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the previous question prevails. The Gentleman from McClain, Representative Bradley to close."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House."

"Representative Madigan would you sit down please. Thank you."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative Bullock, as the Chief House Sponsor of 2730 told you just exactly what that legislation did and I appreciate his clarification. I hope the Members were listening to what we did with thatlegislation. What we failed to do in that legislation was amend this Section of the airport authority legislation in the statutes in fairness to them I think we ought to adopt this Bill and move it on over in the Senate and give them the same benefits we did the other taxing units at local government after the loss of the personal property tax. I simply urge and request sincerely and respectfully the support of the House. Thank you."

"The question is, shall House Bill 425 pass? All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by 87  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 voting 'no'. The Gentleman from Knox, Representative McMaster to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do want to correct a statement that has been made that this Bill was passed unanimously out of Committee of counties and townships. Yes, it did pass unanimously but it had an Amendment on it and the reason it passed unanimously was because of that Amendment. Subsequently on the floor on Second Reading that Amendment was removed and I believe I stated at that time what we were doing and what you will be doing in voting for this Bill today. You will be voting for a non-referendum bonding increase for airport authorities that was managed to be gotten through in a previous Session for the park districts but I want you all to understand exactly what you're doing. If you want to vote for it fine but you are voting for a non-referendum bond increase."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 65 voting 'aye', 69 voting 'no', 12 voting 'present' and this issue failing to have received a Constitutional Majority is hereby... Representative Bradley."

"Mr. Speaker, how many votes do we need to put on postponed consideration under the rules?"

"70."

"Well, I'd appreciate getting five more votes so we could, if we have to amend the Bill, at least it would still be alive and well and we could move it back to Second Reading."

"Representative Katz, 'aye', Representative Greiman, 'aye', Representative Slape, 'aye', Representative Rea, 'aye', Representative McGrew, 'aye', Representative Dunn, 'no', Representative Johnson."

"Is there some procedure in the rules where we can just 88  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 get on the Roll Call like this or do you have to fill out a slip? I'm here feeling lousy and you got on the roll as a 'no'. If they want to get on the roll they can fill out a slip the way the rules require."

"Representative, we really haven't announced the Roll Call and but in all fairness to everybody concerned here we're going dump this and do it over. Dump the Roll Call. The question is, shall House Bill 425 pass? All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'."

"Maybe we can get 89 this time."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On House Bill 425 there are 67 voting 'yes', 76 voting 'no' and 8 voting 'present'. The Gentleman from McClain, Representative Bradley."

"Mr. Speaker, it makes no difference to me. Let the Bill go down the tube. There are airport authorities that are represented by many people on both sides of this aisle and I'm sure those people will be hearing from them as far as I'm concern it makes no difference to me one way or the other. We're just trying to be fair with the Bill. You want to dump it let it go down the tube. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Knox, Representative McMaster."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think in all fairness to the Sponsor, if he wants to move this Bill back to Second Reading, I think that we should give him the right to and if at that time he wants to put the Committee Amendment back on why it's alright with me."

"This Bill having failed to receive a Constitutional Majority is hereby declared lost. House Bill 605, Representative McMaster."

"House Bill 605, a Bill for an Act to amend the 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 Illinois Highway Code, Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Knox, Representative McMaster."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I cannot think of a more opportune time to have an emergency Bill such as this before the House. I think we went through lengthy explanation of what our problem was at the time we moved this Bill on emergency nature a couple of days ago. I do want to repeat what we are doing due to an error in legislation in last Session. An error which was not discovered by the State Board of Elections until it was too late to conform to or correct the erroг. The townships do not have the right to approve their levies by referendum at the township election on April 7. There was no way that they could get that issue on the ballot. For that reason we are asking under this legislation permission to approve those levies at the annual town meeting on April 14. That is the reason for the emergency of the Bill."

"Is there any discussion on the Gentleman's Bill? The question is, shall House... The Gentleman from McClain, Representative Bradley."

"Tom, can you..can they increase taxes if we adopt this Bill?"

"It does not provide any automatic tax increase."

"Does it provide explicitly that they cannot?"

"I would say no. They have their regular rate limitations which they cannot exceed, Jerry. So really they do not."

"What about the referendum?"

"It was impossible to put a referendum on the April 7 ballot due to time. It is done by the electors by vote at the annual town meeting, Jerry."

"I just wanted to bring out a couple of points there just so everybody knows what they're voting on." 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 18th Legislative Day

"Thank you, Jerry."

"Is there any further discussion? The question is, shall House Bill 605 pass? All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this issue there are 125 voting 'aye', 16 voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having received a Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. On page 5 of the calendar appears the order of consent calendar. Mr. Clerk read the Bills. Third Reading."

"House Bill 161, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to create a Commissions to study the coverage of Illinois citizens under plans and programs of health insurance and medical assistance. House Bill 212, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Pension Code. House Bill 213, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Pensions Code. House Bill 215, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Pension Code. House 221, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Election Code. House Bill 242, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Municipal Code. House Bill 245, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Local Library Act. House Bill 252, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act concerning land titles. House Bill 306, a Bill for an act to amend the Election Code. House Bill 308, a Bill for an Act relating to contractors' and material men's liens, known as mechanics' liens. House Bill 310, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in regard to limitations. House Bill 318, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code of 1961. House Bill 350, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to simultaneous tenure of certain public officers, Third Reading of these Bills."

"The question is, shall these Bills pass? Clear 91  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 the Board will you, Mr. Clerk. The question is, shall these Bills pass? All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. These Bills there are 123 voting 'aye', 3 voting 'no', 21 voting 'present' and these Bills having received a Constitutional Majority are hereby declared passed. Consent calendar, Second Reading, Mr. Clerk. Read the Bills."

"House Bill 241, a Bill for an Act authorizing the conveyance of certain State real estate property to Will County. House Bill 397, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the River Conservation District Act. House Bill 405, a Bill for an Act to amend the Fish Code, Second Reading of these Bills."

"Third Reading. Agreed Resolutions. Read the Resolutions will you, Mr. Clerk? The Agreed Resolutions."

"Senate Joint Resolution... Senate Joint Resolution 28, Rigney. House Joint Resolution 17, Wikoff-Johnson-Freidrich. House Resolution 154, Ryan. House Resolution 155, Rea. House Resolution 157, Kornowicz. House Resolution 158, Van Duyne et al. House Resolution 159, Van Duyne et al. House Resolution 161, McClain-Mays-Findley. House Resolution 162, Stearney. House Resolution 163, Ryan-Polk. House Resolution 164, Topinka. House Resolution 165, Richmond. House Resolution 166, Hanahan et al. House Resolution 167, Hanahan et al. House Resolution 168, Mulcahey. House Resolution 170, Emil Jones. House Resolution 172, DiPrima et al."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Conti, on the Agreed Resolutions."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Senate Joint Resolution 28, the Committee was charged with 92  18th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE March 26, 1981 responsibility to study all aspects of the property tax, farm land to make recommendations of its studies and findings back to the Legislature. House Resolution 17, anniversary of Mr. and Mrs. Robert McLaughlin celebrating their 70th wedding anniversary. House Resolution 154 by Ryan et al, acknowledging the Illinois Easter Society will kick off the international year of disabled persons on March 22. House Resolution 55 (sic).... the Herrin Red Devils were recently crowned the Class L Champs in the Southern Illinois Junior High School. House Resolution 157 in recognition of Linda Jankowski of Who's Who among the students in american universities. House Resolution 158 by VanDuyne, winner of the state wrestling championship, Chris Scott in the Class A Title Division. House Resolution 159 by Van Duyne et al, Mark Ruettiger winning his fourth state wrestling championship. House Resolution 161 is by McClain et al, is an accomplishment of the Eagles Liberty High School in Liberty, Illinois by the outstanding season winning the fourth place in the Illinois High School Association's Class A Basketball. House Resolution 162 by Stearney probing the House Judiciary Committee be empowered to hold public hearings at the Cabrini-Green Public Housing Project to hear testimony from residents and law. enforcement officials to report back to this General Assembly. House Resolution 163, a proclamationwhere President Ronald Reagan and Governor James R. Thompson have proclaimed the week of April 19-25, 1981, Professional Secretaries Week. House Resolution 164, achieving recognition of Patricia Hoglund, Committeewoman from Riverside Township, GOP Committeemen by Topinka. House Resolution by Richmond, 165, recognizing a public servant, a Mr. Rovold Wall of Evansville, Indiana... Illinois for his 38 years of service to the community. House Resolution 166 93  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day March 26, 1981 by Hanahan et al, the retirement of Leo Paul Thompson, a carpenter for over a quarter century is retiring March 31, 1981. House Resolution 167 by Hanahan et al, a retirement Resolution, Edwin M. Underwood of Volo, Illinois and Clerk of Wouconda Township is retiring on April 7, 1981. House Resolution 168 by Mulcahey, a commendation of a former colleague, Rober Brinkmeier who will be inducted on April 25 to the Illinois Basketball hall of Fame. House Resolution 170 by Emil Jones siting that Dr. Ethel Greene, Professor of elementary Education has been selected as one of the 12 faculty members of Northeastern Illinois University to receive the university's Presidential Merit Award. House Resolution 172, by DiPrima et al, visiting our state will be Jeannette Frank, the National President of the Ladies Auxiliary of the Veterans of Foreign Wars will visit Illinois from April 1 to April 4. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House the rest of the Resolutions I have is House Resolution 156, 160, 169..."

"Hold those will you?"

"I move for the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. The rest are Death Resolutions."

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Agreed Resolutions are adopted. Death Resolutions."

"House Resolution 156, in the respect to the memory of Bob Elson. House Resolution 160 in respect to the memory of Clinton Craig. House Resolution 169 in respect to the memory of Dominick DiMatteo, Sr. House Resolution 171 in respect to the memory of Patricia Parker."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Conti, on the Death Resolutions."

"Mr. Speaker, I move for the adoption of the Death 94  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day Resolutions." March 26, 1981

"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of the Death Resolutions. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes have it and the Death Resolutions are adopted. The Lady from Cook, Representative Macdonald."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I move to suspend the appropriate rule for posting the following Bills which would be heard on next Tuesday in the Conservation Natural Resource Committee. It would House Bill 544, House Bill 564, House Bill 565, House Bill 603, House Bill 632, House Bill 633, and House Bill 681."

"Does the Lady have leave? Representative Madigan, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Representative, you discussed this with Representative Flinn, the Ninority spokesman on that Committee?"

"No, I haven't and I just got word that they had been sent over and I was hoping that they would be able to be posted. I don't even know who the Sponsors are."

"To the best of my knowledge, no one on this side of the aisle has even seen the Bill."

"I'd be happy to discuss it with Mr. Flinn."

"Take them out of the record and get it worked out with them would you, Representative? The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Wikoff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like also to waive the appropriate rule. I believe it's 18B for the posting of three Bills for cities and villages for next Tuesday. We just got them. It's House Bill 663, 670, and 721. No, I haven't discussed it with Bruce because I can't find him right now but I did discuss earlier that we might have some which he was in agreement with."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan." 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 18th Legislative Day

"Mr. Speaker, March 26, 1981 Mr. Wikoff did visit with me and show me the Bills, for my part I would have no objection to suspending the posting requirements on the three Bills that you showed me just a little while ago."

"Is there leave for the Gentleman's motion to suspend the rules for posting? Are there objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, I've just received a request from my side of the aisle. Are you in a position to tell the Membership if the Committee on Financial Institutions ever plans to meet?"

"I'm certain before the end of Session, Representative, they will have a meeting."

"At least one meeting."

"Whatever it requires to take care of the load that they've got in that Committee. Are there any further announcements? Representative Madigan, for what purpose do you rise?"

"We've had an opportunity to examine the Bills which were the subject of Representative Macdonald's motion and we are now in a position to agree to that motion."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Macdonald, renews her motion to suspend the appropriate posting rules. Does she have leave? Leave granted? Are there any objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, I now move that the House stand adjourned until Friday, March 26 (sic) at the hour of 9:45."

"The Gentleman moves that the House stand adjourned until Friday, March the 26th (sic), the hour of 9:45. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the House stands adjourned." 96