"The House will be in order, and the Members will please be in their seats. Father Peter Mascari from the St. John's Vianney Church located in Sherman, Illinois will lead us in prayer this morning."
"Almighty God, we thank You for the very fact that we share Your life. We are so grateful to You for the love that You have extended us which caused creation which permitted us to be Members of Your family. Help us to realize the privilege which is ours, such a great privilege indeed to be able to share Your divine life. Let us show our appreciation by the way we carry on in our life. We know we're both human and spiritual. Help us to bear that in mind in all of our deliberations. Our Gentleman here, Members of the House, certainly have a great responsibility particularly in the United States of America as it is and the problems that we have right here in the State of Illinois. We ask the Holy Spirit to guide them in all their considerations that as they speak they speak through Him. Before that, that they think through Him, that all considerations will be made with the thought that we do come from God and that we are brothers and sisters and as such we want to always give our best to mankind making the most of the blessings that God has shared with us. This we pray through Chirst Our Lord. Amen."
"Thank you, Father. Representative Klemm will lead us with the Pledge today."
"I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"Roll Call for Attendance. Representative Telcser, do you have any excused absences? How about Representative 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 Huskey? Representative Madigan, do you have some excused absences?"
"Would the record show that Representative Yourell is excused?"
"The record will so indicate. ...The record. Will you, Mr. Clerk? 154 Members having answered the Roll Call, a Quorum of the House is present. Committee reports."
"Representative Pullen, Chairman from the Committee on Executive to which the following Bills were referred, action taken April 23, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass' House Bills 76, 211, 631, 637, 647...pardon me, 674, 756, 757, 759, 760; 'do not pass' House Bills 657 and 700; 'do pass as amended' House Bill 217, 257, 411, 717, and 755; 'do pass Consent Calendar' House Bill 685, 758, 846; 'be adopted' House Resolution 18 and 116; 'be adopted as amended' House Resolution 120. Representative Leinenweber, Chairman from the Committee on Judiciary II, to which the following Bills were referred, action taken April 22, 1981, and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass' House Bill 156."
"Messages from the Senate."
"Message from the Senate by Mr. Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has concurred with the House in the adoption of the following Joint Resolution: House Joint Resolution 23, concurred in by the Senate April 23, 1981. Kenneth Wright, Secretary."
"On page two...or on page three under the Order of House Bills Second Reading appears House Bill 43, Representative Stanley. Representative Stanley in the chamber? Out of the record. Page three of the Calendar under House Bills Second Reading appears House Bill 57, 2 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 Representative McAuliffe. Out of the record. House Bill 142, Representative Breslin. Out of the record. House Bill 146, Representative Hoffman. Out of the record. House Bill 185, Representative McCourt. Out of the record. House Bill 196, Representative Ropp. Out of the record. House Bill 210, Representative Schuneman. Out of the record. Mr. Clerk, we'll go back to House Bill 146. Representative Hoffman wishes to have it read."
"House Bill 146, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Municipal Code, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 274, Representative Huskey. Welcome back, Representative Huskey. Welcome back. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 274, a Bill for an Act..."
"Wait just a minute, Mr. Clerk. Alright, the House will be in order. The Members will be in their seats please. We will proceed with the business that we have at hand here, and if I had a Bill on Second Reading I would start to think about calling it today, Ladies and Gentlemen, if I were you. Representative Huskey on House Bill...No, Mr. Clerk, on House Bill 274."
"House Bill 274, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code, Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."
"Are there any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"
"Motion to table. I move to table Amendment #1 to House Bill 274, Richard Kelly."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Kelly, on Amendment #1." 3 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"Yes, Mr. Speaker. I would like to withdraw that Motion please."
"Withdraw the Motion. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #2, Dick Kelly, amends House Bill 274 by deleting the title and inserting in lieu thereof the following."
"Representative Kelly on Amendment #2."
"I would like to withdraw Amendment #2."
"Withdraw Amendment #2. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #3, Huskey, amends House Bill 274 as amended."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huskey, on Amendment #3."
"I move for the adoption of Amendment #3. Amendment #3 merely states the effective date of...which would be September 1, 1982."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #3 to House Bill 274. Is there any discussion? All those in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #4, Huskey, amends House Bill..."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huskey."
"Amendment #4 is a technical Amendment. I move for its adoption."
"Is there any discussion on Amendment #4? The question is 'Shall Amendment #4 be adopted?' All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #5, Dick Kelly, amends House Bill 274..."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Kelly, on 4 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 Amendment #5."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, Amendment #5 to House Bill 274 would eliminate the driver's education program in the State of Illinois. There have been publications in the Chicago Tribune and other such media indicating that there could be a number of lives saved and certainly a great many accidents prevented if we eliminated driver's education in the State of Illinois. I know Representative Huskey's Bill purports to raise the age to 17 and keep the driver's education program. I happen to feel that Illinois should not be in the business of manufacturing teenage drivers which we are doing today. If we would discontinue driver's education, we could not only save $27,000,000 a year, but we would also be preventing a great many drivers from being on the street that are of the 16 and 17 year old age. The program itself only encourages teenagers to be driving, and this particular legislation would, you might say, not mandatorily take away the right of 16 and 17 year olds, but the fact remains that in other states this experience shows that over three-fourths of the teenagers driving today would not be on the street until they are 18 and possibly until they're 20 years old. So, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I feel that this is a significant Amendment. I would ask for your support of my Amendment #5 to House Bill 274."
"Is there any discussion on Amendment #5? The Gentleman from Wayne, Representative Robbins."
"Question of the Sponsor of Amendment #5."
"He indicates he'll yield."
"On Amendment #5 what effect would Amendment #5 have on a 16 or 17 year old driver on his ability to get insurance?"
"What this Amendment does, it is very comparable to what 5 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 Representative Huskey was doing in that it does do what Representative Huskey is attempting to do, raise the age from 16 to 17. I kept Representative Huskey's concept in because it was felt by the Committee that there should be a...the raising of the age. I would be willing to have it be either way. This would eliminate the program. As far as insurance goes, it would be...I think it would not only...it would save the insurance and reduce rates throughout the State of Illinois for the average citizens because there would be less teenage drivers on the streets. If a 17 year old went through like you and I did in 1969 before this program of driver's education was created, we had a friend or relation take us out with some driving lessons and then after reviewing the Secretary of State's manual we would go in and take our test, and if we passed it successfully, we would get our driver's license. Then we would be certainly required, just like we are now, to have insurance. We don't have a mandatory, as you know, insurance program in Illinois as it is right now. So this wouldn't have any change or any bearing on the existing law."
"Further question on that then. Is there an insurance break now for driver's training for 16 and 17 year old children that...over the ones that do not have driver's training?"
"Under the current structure that there is a necessity for having driver's education to receive benefits from insurance programs. This would eliminate the program and it would eliminate a number of teenage drivers so you wouldn't have to worry that much about paying higher rates for teenagers. The fact would occur that actually rates would be decreased by eliminating this program."
"Do you...do you believe that by not training these 6 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 young people to drive that they will be better drivers?"
"Representative, the program as I see it is it is one where there are very competent driving instructors. The program, you might say, is a very polished program. But the fact remains that we have gigantic accidents on the highway which are being perpetrated by 16 and 17 year olds, and 18 year olds that participated in these driver's education programs. So even though we have an intelligent, so-to-speak, driver on the street, the accident rates have not decreased. What I am saying is that the program isn't working, and if I am a teacher and I am teaching driver's education or running a school, I am going to admit that the program has been a failure not because the teaching hasn't been competent, but that it has not accomplished what we wanted it to, and that is to reduce accidents, to have intelligent drivers out on the streets that are young people."
"Can you cite...can you cite statistics from other states where...that do not have driver's training to show that the young...that the drivers do not have higher accident rates?"
"The...there was an article in the Chicago Tribune which pointed out that in one state in the east that eliminated driver's education programs that over three-fourths of the 16 and 17 year old drivers did not take up driving until they were over 18 years-old. So by keeping those individuals off the street, and it is a voluntary... It is not mandating that they cannot drive when they are 17 or so. It is a program that would provide a freedom but at the same time it would take away from the 16 and 17 year old driver."
"Thank you."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman 7 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 from DuPage, Representative Hoffman."
"Thank you very...thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. There are a number of other people who have indicated that they want to speak on this topic. I would only say to you that at the very least this Amendment is premature. The whole issue of mandated and mandatory program is going to be considered by a very...well represented Subcommittee of the School Problems Commission. There will be recommendations not only on Special Ed, but other areas prior to the end of this Legislative Session, and for that reason alone, plus others that will be mentioned, I would oppose this Amendment."
"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Schneider."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One more time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Representative Hoffman is correct. We have a number of mandates Subcommittees that are working not only on mandates in general, but on driver ed in particular. We had had one this morning which I was unable to attend because of another commitment, but we had one the other day also. Part of the research, I think, Representative Kelly is deducing his new conclusions from have been discovered to be slanted and outmoded. We have found more recent indications particularly through some of the insurance companies who are not in the business to make teachers or schools happy, but in the business of giving appropriate insurance breaks to those who are good drivers, we have discovered that the more recent studies indicate that drivers...students who are under the supervision of a driver ed program have shown to have better records. In the event they are in accidents, they have shown that those accidents are less expensive. So I think one of the items 8 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 I want to clarify is the question about what is the real impact in terms of driver capabilities. And the new studies have shown that they are indeed better drivers. Secondly, I think, we ought to be aware that the second real concern or probably the one that we've heard more than anything else about is the cost of the program. Again, in front of the Committee and sure to come out of our Committee are two proposals that will provide for the funding. I think School Districts want to say, 'If you're going to give us a program, give us the money'. We understand that. I think the last four...the last two General Assemblies have come to be aware that mandates do have to be measured up against the cost of a program. So there are two Bills at least that I am aware of that are going to increase that funding, and that would be an opportunity to continue the program to meet the mandate that we have imposed on the School Districts. Again, it is a premature Amendment. We have some other alternatives I think you'll have to choose from. This one is addressing a problem rather extraordinarily by eliminating the entire program. I think we have to look at it differently, consider that the new information indicates that there is a higher correlation between safety and instruction and then also please consider that there will be some funds made available if the General Assembly approves of those funds in this coming month. Oppose the Amendment."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Morgan, Representative Reilly."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not to repeat what the previous speakers have said, but this Amendment is two things. Number one, it is an end run around the Education Committee. We have sent these Bills to a Subcommittee. They are holding hearings, and anybody who has any feeling 9 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 that that Subcommittee is a patent Committee that will not report out any demandating has only to look at this morning's hearings in which, somewhat to my surprise, the Subcommittee did report out such a Bill. It is an honest Subcommittee. It will be doing its work. This Amendment is an end run around the Subcommittee. Worse than that, the Sponsor of the Bill whom I assume the Speaker will recognize in a moment, does not wish this Amendment on his Bill, and it has generally been our understanding that a Member could put his Bill in the form he wants. I would hope that everyone who supports the Committee system, either Representative Schneider as a Minority Spokesman or myself as Chairman, will vote 'no' on this Amendment."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Deuster."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the offer of this Amendment for providing a little momentum on this subject. I happen to be a Member of the Committee on Elementary and Secondary Education, and for many years the educational community has sat on its hands while the financial problem got worse and worse. It is true that our Committee is considering other Bills and other suggestions, but I don't think the mere fact that our Committee is considering other ideas should be any reason that we should suggest Representative Kelly is making an end run around the Committee. Every Member of this House, I think, understands what the driver's education mandate is, how expensive it is, and how important it is that we consider making some changes in it. As it happens, I don't agree with everything that is in Representative Kelly's Amendment, but I think the one single element that is most important for this House to express itself on is the elimination of the mandate for driver's education. If 10 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 driver's education is important in East St. Louis, or Waukegan, or Mundelein, or Chicago, or anywhere else, I have confidence, or DuPage County even, I have confidence that the intelligent communities in those areas as reflected in their school boards will insist that driver's education be offered. But if it is a low priority and they would rather offer English and mathematics and some fundamentals where they have to make a hard dollar choice, I think they ought to be free to make that choice. The Governor has been talking about getting rid of mandates. We can't give them money. The most we can give to the local schools is some freedom...some budgetary flexibility. And so although there may be parts of this Amendment that trouble me, I am sure that there will be other Amendments coming along later on the Bill, and I would urge Members of this House to support this Amendment so at least we're sending a message to the educational community and to everybody involved that we would like to eliminate this costly mandate so that our local schools will be able to avoid bankruptcy and order their own educational priorities at the local level instead of here from Springfield. So I would urge support for the Amendment for that reason."
"The Gentleman from McClain, Representative Ropp."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. In all due respect to the Sponsor of this Amendment, I think there is something to be said about practical experience. Young people who are about to take on the opportunity of driving an automobile which is now costing up into the thousands of dollars, a bit of practical training, I think, is very worthwhile before one is exposed to this sizable piece of machinery out on the open highways. I would hate to think that we would have that same kind of philosophy in regards to thinking that an airplane pilot would not necessarily 11 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 need any special training, that if he was old enough he could get a license to fly a plane. I think you can use that analogy with a lot of things, and this practical experience under supervision is, I think, most worthwhile and necessary, and I would urge the defeat of this Amendment."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Coles, Representative Stuffle."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Members. I think Representative Kelly is to be commended. Even if this is an end run for his effort and getting this this far because I think some of the better education legislation has sprung from the efforts of those who have had to end run the Committee which I serve on as well. However, with regard to this particular Amendment I would rise in opposition. For some of the arguments made here by Representative Ropp, who did not go ahead and talk about the problem the downstaters face with regard to particularly those farm families where a son or daughter must drive and work, and I think this would impact directly on that. Secondly, I think there is and has been shown a relationship between the insurance rates and accident rates and the ability of students to take and pass these particular types of programs in high school. Definitely, insurance companies provide incentives and rate breaks for those who have passed courses pursuant to the Acts that we have passed in the General Assembly over the years. Representative Kelly has every right to propose this in the absence of the Education Committee's action. He has every right to jump out front before some decision is made by Subcommittee or the IOE or whoever. However, I think that most of us know that moderation usually wins out here. I don't think that this Amendment is one of moderation, but rather one of emasculation. It 12 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 kills the program in high school for drivers' education in its entirety and eliminates the drivers' ed. fund. However, in so doing, it does not eliminate the mandate but rather adds to the mandate for grades one through eight. That mandate is retained and it seems to me that if he's going to make that decision for high schools, where the student is of driving age or close to it, it ought to be done for elementary school as well, because I don't believe that most students in grades one through eight have a great concern about being behind the wheel at that time in their lives. For those reasons, all of those reasons, and because I believe that this Amendment goes too far, I would urge a 'no' vote."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Piel."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I have all due respect for the Sponsor of this Amendment, but one thing I would like to point out is the introducing of this Amendment shows a distinct lack of professional courtesy. Unfortunately, the Sponsor of this Amendment, went and filed the Amendment, didn't have the courtesy to even talk to the Sponsor of the Bill in reference to the Amendment. The Amendment deletes the title and everything after the enacting clause, and I think, you know, it's just sort of an unwritten rule of the House that you at least talk to the Sponsor of the Bill and tell them what you're doing. Sponsor of this Amendment comes, files the Amendment, doesn't even have the courtesy to talk to the Sponsor of the Bill and say, 'This is what I'm doing' when he's introducing an Amendment to delete everything after the enacting clause, and I would ask for a 'no' vote on this Amendment."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman 13 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 from Cook, Representative Huskey."
"Well, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I hope you were all listening to what Representative Stuffle said when he said this Amendment eliminates drivers' education in the high schools. It eliminates it. No more drivers' education in high school. I hope you were listening when Representative Robert Piel said that this Amendment was put on my good Bill and everything after the enacting clause to put this Amendment on without any knowledge of mine until the staff come and carried this Amendment to me today. Now 'Monsignor Kelly', do you feel that's the fair way to conduct business in this House? A man that preaches a morality that you preach and then you'd steal a man's Bill to put on this worthless Amendment. I urge everyone in this House to vote 'no' on this ... to vote 'no' on this Amendment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Kelly, to close."
"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to respond to Representative Huskey by pointing out that this is about the first time you've been here this month, Herb, and I know you've had some illness, and that's one reason why we weren't able to discuss this second Amendment. You know very well that I was over and discussed a similar Amendment which I just tabled a moment ago which was almost exactly the same. So I wasn't trying to put anything over on you, Herb. In fact, I didn't know you were in here today. I would like to also respond to this question that I was going around the Committee activity. Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm the Sponsor of House Bill 275 which is exactly similar to this Amendment. House Bill 275 and House Bill 274 were posted for the Motor Vehicles Committee of which Representative Huskey is Chairman. I went to the Committee 14 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 on the date that the Bill was posted. I was advised that the Bill was transferred to the Primary and Secondary... Elementary and Secondary Education Committee. Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm not trying to, you know, make a determination for you, but I'll tell you this; I don't know if this is going to be my last Session or not. I hope not. I hope to come back. But I do know that by eliminating the drivers' education program we are going to save many lives in the State of Illinois. We're going to prevent a lot of accidents. I feel it's a good concept. I'm going to vote for my Amendment. You do what you want to do."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #5 to House Bill 274. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. Representative Mulcahey, for what purpose do you arise?"
"Mr. Speaker, I was wondering if this qualifies Representative Kelly for the Brian Duff travelling award?"
"We will check the record on that, Representative. On this issue there are 4 voting 'aye', 143 voting 'no' and 5 voting 'present'. Did you wish to poll the absentees, Mr. Kelly? This Amendment is lost. Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Just a minute, Mr. Clerk. Alright, the noise level is pretty high here. Let's hold it down. We may have to clear the floor, Mr. Doorkeeper. Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 301, Representative Topinka. Out of the record. House Bill 305, Representative Swanstrom. Out of the record. House Bill 342, Representative Balanoff. She's ready today. Read the 15 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 Bill."
"House Bill 342, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"Floor Amendment #1, Balanoff, amends House Bill 342 on page one and so forth."
"Lady from Cook, Representative Balanoff."
"... Members of the House. This Amendment was suggested by the Motor Vehicles Committee which heard the Bill. It moves the responsibility from car dealers to car manufacturers and I would appreciate your favorable vote."
"Is there any discussion? The Lady from Cook, Representative Pullen."
"I'd like to ask the Sponsor a question please?"
"She indicates she'll yield. Just a minute, Representative. The House is going to have to be in order. The noise level is just horrendous here this morning. The Members' will please be in their seats and hold down the conversation so we could conduct the business of the House. Representative Pullen."
"You said that it changes the responsibility from car dealers to car manufacturers. Could you tell us the responsibility for what?"
"Of course. Supplying a spare tire which is of the same size as the tires on the car."
"Thank you."
"Is there any further discussion? Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huskey."
"Well, Mr.... Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Representative... Eleanor brought this before Committee and it was agreed to in Committee, in the Motor Vehicle Committee that if she would amend this Bill exactly 16 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 this Amendment says that the Motor Vehicle Committee would support the Bill. And I think it's a good Bill and she deserves support on this Amendment."
"Is there any further discussion? The Lady moves for the adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill 342. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments."
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 357, Representative Sandquist. Representative Sandquist, do you want to go on House Bill 357? Out of the record. How about 358? Out of the record. 359, out of the record. 360, out of the record. 361, out of the record. 390, Representative Preston. Representative Preston, do you want your Bill called? Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 390, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act relating to alcoholic liquors. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendment."
"Are there any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 441, Representative McGrew. Out of the record. House Bill 457, Representative Vinson. 457, Representative. Out of the record. House Bill 496, Representative Schneider. Out of the record. 497, Representative Hoffman. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 497, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Amendments from the floor?"
"Floor Amendment #1, Reilly, amends House Bill 497 on..."
"Representative Reilly on Amendment 1." 17 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"Withdraw Amendment #1."
"Withdraw the Amendment. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #2, Reilly, amends House Bill..."
"Representative Reilly on Amendment #2."
"Thank you. Amendment #2 simply clarifies, I think, the intent of the Bill. I believe it's agreeable with the Sponsor, and I would ask adoption of Amendment #2."
"Is there any discussion to Amendment #2? Gentleman moves the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 497. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye'; all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments."
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 508, Representative Catania. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 508, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code, Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."
"Are there any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"
"No Motions filed."
"Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 513, Representative Greiman. Out of the record. House Bill 515, out of the record. Representative Greiman. House Bill 520, Representative Hoxsey, out of the record. House Bill 521, Representative Mays. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 521, a Bill for an Act to provide for the community industrial building interest assistance loans, Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."
"Are there any Motions filed with respect to 18 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 Amendment #1?"
"No Motions filed."
"Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 541, Abramson. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 541, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to land trust agreements, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 554, Representative Daniels. Representative Daniels on House Bill 554. Does that mean you want it called, Representative? Read the Bill."
"House Bill 554, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in regard to Attorney General and State's Attorneys, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Are there any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 571, Representative Deuster. 571, Representative. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 571, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Library District Act, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 581. Just a minute, Representative Deuster."
"I would simply request that that Bill, 571, be held on the Order of Second Reading because an Amendment is being prepared."
"Hold the...House Bill 571 on the Order of Second 19 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 Reading. Representative Mautino on House Bill 581. Want it read, Representative? Read the Bill."
"House Bill 581, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act relating to alcoholic liquors, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 604, Representative Hallock. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 604, a Bill for an Act to amend the Emergency Interim Executive Succession Act, Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."
"Are there any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"
"No Motions filed."
"Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 616, Collins. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 616, a Bill for an Act to amend the Election Code, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. 622, Representative Ronan. Out of the record. House Bill 625, Representative Huff. Representative, you want your Bill read? Out of the record. House Bill 628, Rigney. Out of the record. House Bill 639, Fawell. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 639, a Bill for an Act in relation to the establishment, maintenance, and operation of county law libraries, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments." 20 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"Any Amendments from the floor? Representative, we had an Amendment that was just filed now. Is that your Amendment?"
"Yes, it is."
"Well, we'll have to hold the Bill...we'll have to hold the Bill until the Amendment has been printed and distributed."
"Can I hold it on Second Reading?"
"We'll hold it on Second Reading. House Bill 643, Representative Grossi. Out of the record. House Bill 649, Deuster. Read it."
"House Bill 649, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Library District Act, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 651, Representative Wolf. 651, Representative. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 651, a Bill for an Act to amend the Election Code, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 663, Representative Christensen. Out of the record. House Bill 672, Representative Schuneman. Out of the record. House Bill 694, Representative Levin. Representative Levin on the floor? Out of the record. 695, Levin, out of the record. 698, Representative Daniels. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 698, a Bill for an Act to amend the Real Estate Brokers and Salesmen License Act, Second Reading of the Bill. Amendments #1 and 2 were adopted in Committee."
"Are there any Motions filed with respect to 21 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 Amendments #1 or 2?"
"No Motions filed."
"Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. I skipped House Bill 669, Representative Huskey, do you want that Bill read? Representative Huskey on 669. Do you want that Bill heard? Do you want the Bill read, Representative? On page five of. the Calendar. House Bill 669 amends the Illinois Municipal Code. Take it out of the record for now. House Bill 705, Representative Henry. Do you want the Bill read? Representative Henry."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would be pleased if you would hold that on Second Reading. We are preparing an Amendment."
"Take House Bill 705 out of the record. Are you ready on 669, Representative? Representative Huskey. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 669, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Municipal Code, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. We have some distinguished visitors here with us this morning. Madison High School Class A High School basketball champions, represented by Representative Steele, Representative McPike, and Representative Wolf. Bring them in would you please? Representative Steele for the introduction."
"Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, if we might have your attention for just a moment. We're very pleased this morning to have with us the Illinois State basketball champions of the Class A division from Madison, Illinois 22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 represented by Representative Jim McPike, by Representative Sam Wolf, and myself. This team is a come from behind team. They've had a great exciting tournament and a battle for the state championship. They brought credit to themselves, and Madison community, and southwestern Illinois, our 56th District, and credit to our entire State of Illinois. It is a pleasure to introduce to you at this time the team, and I will introduce the head coach, Coach Graham, at this time. We'll introduce the players, the principal, and others involved in this great effort. Coach Graham."
"We would like to thank all of the Representatives for asking us to appear. We haven't been here since 1977, so I guess we have 5 year terms. But we hope we can come back next year or at least within the next five years. It is really an honor being here, and I am sure that myself, our principal, and all the players will remember this for a long time. I would like to introduce our principal who is the leader of our school. He is very much involved in our basketball team. Our principal will introduce the players. The best principal in the State of Illinois, Dan 'Kostinski'. Dan." 'Kostinski': "Thank you, Coach. It is indeed a privilege and an honor to appear before you Ladies and Gentlemen this afternoon. It is an honor to win the state championship, and it makes us recognized. This time we would like to introduce the basketball players. As we are a little bit crowded and cramped up here, as I call their name, Gentlemen, will you please raise your hand so that you can be recognized? Our four seniors who were mainstays of the team led by Senior Morris Hughes...Morris Hughes, Patrick 'Joe Black' Hatter, All-State selection. One of the finest guards in the State of Illinois, Kerwin Stanley, and 23 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 Mr....Mr. Steady, Charles Claggot. The fifth member of out starting line-up was six foot six junior, Mark Zarr. Be glad to have Mark Zarr back with us next year. Running out a very fine list of substitutes we have Avery Crawford, Shannon Ju-Ju Manson, Mark Madgett, Roy Campbell, Danny Stern, Billy Papa, Carvel Claggot. And I believe that is all we have with us. We have one other fellow that didn't make it today, and that was Baker...Darrell Baker. Thank you."
"Well, thank you very much. While these champions are on the podium we'd like to ask that the Resolution be read at this time."
"House Resolution 221, whereas the Trojans of Madison Senior High School, Madison, Illinois, posted a brilliant 30-2 record for the 1980-81 season, and whereas the determined and resourceful Trojan basketball team, winners of the Columbia Regional, the Vandalia Sectional, the Charleston Super-Sectional and, advanced to the Champaign State Finals; and whereas this highly talented Trojan team in the opening game at the Assembly Hall Champaign, facing a strong Providence-New Lenox contingent displayed rare courage and skill in subduing their opponents in a hard fought contest; and whereas All the members of the 1980-81 Madison Senior High School basketball team continued their winning ways by defeating strong Cairo and Dunlap teams in displays of superlative basketball skill instilled and taught by coaches Larry Graham and David Hodges; and whereas this year's excellent Trojan team included the fine talent of Roy Campbell, Carvel Claggot, Charles Clagget, Avery Crawford, Patrick Hatter, Morris Hughes, Mark Madgett, Shannon Manson, Billy Papa, Kerwin Stanley, Dan Ster and Mark Zarr; and whereas the efforts of all those previously mentioned have 24 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 accomplished the most enviable reward of winning the Illinois Class A State Basketball Championship of 1981, hosted by the Illinois High School Association; and whereas the community of Madison is extremely proud of their fine basketball team because of the manner in which they presented themselves throughout the season and playoffs; therefore, be it Resolved by the House of Representatives of the 82nd General Assembly of the State of Illinois, that we recognize and congratulate the Madison Senior High School basketball team for a victorious season and in winning the 1981 Illinois Class A High School basketball championship; and be it further Resolved that a suitable copy of this Preamble and Resolution be presented to each of the coaches, the players, and the managers of the Madison Senior High School Trojan Basketball Team."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Conti, has moved for the adoption of Resolution 221. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye',...awe...come on. These guys came all the way up here from Madison to hear this. All in favor say 'aye', all opposed 'no'. There we are. We have another special guest that is also part of the 'representative' for this group. The smallest man in the Senate in size, but certainly the largest in stature, Senator Sam Vadalabene, in the center aisle here. Senator Sam. Senator Vadalabene in the Chair."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. The Senate has adjourned and...or we've gone into caucus, and we were going to have the Madison High School Team presented to the Senate. I am sorry that we cannot have it done. So once a House Member always a House Member, I came back over here and had my picture taken in the House with this great Madison Basketball Team and its coach, Larry Graham. I am standing..." 25 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"Thank you very much, Sam. We're surprised to hear that the Senate was even in this morning. Have we adopted the Resolution? All in favor signify by saying 'aye'; all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. And the Resolution is adopted. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', all opposed by saying 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, the Resolution is adopted. My congratulatons to you, Gentlemen and to the coaches. You're a tribute to the State of Illinois, and we're glad to have you. And we hope you can come back next year. Thanks again, very much. Page six under the Order of House Bills Second Reading appears House Bill 709. Representative Mulcahey. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 709..."
"Out of the record, Mr. Clerk. House Bill 715, Leverenz. Want the Bill read, Representative? Representative Leverenz, do you want House Bill 715 called?"
"Please."
"Read the Bill."
"House Bill 715, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Representative Leverenz, we have an Amendment filed this morning. It has not been printed and distributed. We're going to have to take this Bill out of the record for now."
"I have my copy, Mr. Speaker."
"It is your Amendment, I believe."
"I don't believe it is my Amendment."
"No, it's Representative Steele's Amendment."
"Right."
"The Clerk tells me it's not been..."
"I have it, and I would agree to it and put my name on 26 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 it. But I have my copy. I don't understand why he may not have his copy."
"It has not been distributed, Representative. We're going to have to take the Bill out of the record."
"Well, I might oppose it later."
"That is certainly your privilege. House Bill 723, Representative Peters. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 723, a Bill for an Act to amend the Pharmacy Act, Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."
"Any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"
"No Motions filed."
"Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 762, Yourell, out of the record. House Bill 778, Rigney. Representative Rigney on House Bill 778, out of the record. House Bill 780, Representative Leinenweber. Representative Leinenweber, you want to call House...out of the record. House Bill 800, Representative Ronan. 800, Representative. Second Reading. Read the...read the Bill."
"House Bill 800, a Bill for an Act to amend the Bingo License and Tax Act, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Are there any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 814, Representative Dunn. Ralph Dunn. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 814, a Bill'for an Act to amend the School Code, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"Floor Amendment #1, Ralph Dunn, amends House Bill 27 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 814 on page one and so forth."
"The Gentleman from Perry, Representative Dunn, on Amendment #1."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #1 of House Bill 814...a Bill to say that the chief school business manager's affairs will be directed...or his duties will be directed by the Board of Education rather than State Board of Education, by the local Board of Education. This was approved...this was suggested by the Illinois Office of Education. I would like to move its adoption."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill 814. Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hoffman."
"Would the Sponsor please explain that Amendment again?"
"The Bill pertains to the chief school officer or the business manager of the School Districts, and his duties would be prescribed as they are now by the local School Boards rather than the State Office of Education. The way the Bill had read in Committee was that the Office of Education would set forth the duties of the...of the business administrator or the chief business administrator. And this would change it to say...strike that out and just keep it like it is now, that the School Boards would direct the duties of the school officer...of the business manager."
"In other words...other words, you had put it...language in that you want to take out?"
"That is true."
"Thank you very much."
"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz."
"If it takes out the language... I'm sorry. Would the Sponsor yield to a question?" 28 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"Yes, he indicates he will."
"If it deletes the language that is in the Bill, what is left of the Bill?"
"It...the Bill itself was meant to say the chief...the business manager of school would have the...are grandfathered in. This was passed by Representatie Mulcahey in 1977, and this enlarges that. It doesn't change the duties of any of the people, and this is what the Bill inadvertently said that the...the State Office would set the duties rather than local school boards. That is what we're trading."
"So we would in essence leave it the way Mr....Representative Mulcahey put it in 1977."
"This Amendment would leave it that way. The Bill itself has a little different change that Representative Mulcahey is a Cosponsor with, but that will be on Third Reading. This will leave it like it was when Mulcahey passed it in '77."
"Well, we fought very hard to have Representative Mulcahey's legislation enacted in 1977, and I appreciate the Amendment."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Perry, Representative Dunn, to close."
"I would like a favorable Roll Call please."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill 814. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 831, Representative Hudson. 831, Representative. Do you want it called? Out of the record. 835, Representative Mautino. Read it."
"House Bill 835, a Bill for an Act to amend the 29 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 Illinois Horse Racing Act, Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."
"Are there any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"
"No Motions filed."
"Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 860, Representative Rigney. 860, Representative Rigney. What does that mean? Out of the record. House Bill 863, Abramson. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 863, a Bill for an Act to amend the Workers' Compensation Act and the Workers' Occupational Disease Act, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 868, Representative Mulcahey. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 868, a Bill for an Act to permit cities, villages, and incorporated towns to make refunds on property tax payments by persons 65 years of age or older, Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."
"Are there any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"
"No Motions filed."
"Third Reading. No further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 910, Representative Bower. Representative Bower, do you want your Bill called? Out of the record. House Bill 933, Representative Mautino. Read it." 30 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"House Bill 933, a Bill for an Act to amend the Park District Code. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in Committee."
"Are there any Motions filed with respect to Amendment #1?"
"No Motions filed."
"Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 937, Sandquist. Representative Sandquist, you want to call House Bill 937? Out of the record. House Bill 975, Representative Currie. Representative Currie, you want to call your Bill? Read the Bill."
"House Bill 975, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 985, Peters. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 985, a Bill for an Act relating to adoption, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 986, Representative Barnes. Out of the record. House Bill 988, Representative Ronan. Out of the record. House Bill 1006, Representative Barkhausen. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 1006, a Bill for an Act...the Premises Liability Law establishes single duty and reasonable care owned by the owner or occupier of premises to enter it...Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments." 31 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 1030, Representative Donovan. Representative Donovan, read the Bill? Read the Bill."
"House Bill 1030, a Bill for an Act to amend the Medical Practice Act and Civil Administrative Code, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Amendments from the floor?"
"None."
"Third Reading. House Bill 1041, Representative Conti, you want it read? Representative Conti."
"Mr. Speaker,...Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I agreed with the Department of Law Enforcement agency that I would hold this Bill on Second Reading so they could come up with a clean-up Amendment. I just got the Amendment, and I know it hasn't had time to be distributed yet. So hold it on Second Reading."
"Out of the record. On the Calendar on page seven under the Order of House Bills Third Reading Short Debate Calendar appears House Bill 600, Representative Satterthwaite. Out of the record. On page seven under the Order of House Bills Third Reading appears the House Bill #33, Representative Neff. Representative Neff...Representative Neff, you want to call House Bill 33? Out of the record. House Bill 38, Representative Donovan. You want it heard? Read the Bill."
"House Bill 38, a Bill for an Act relating to the use of coroner's reports and records of evidence, Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Donovan."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 38 permits the coroner's medical records 32 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 to be used in evidence in the civil cases. Presently right now they can only be used in criminal cases. We are changing it to allow evidence to be used in the civil cases. This will include all coroner's records, summaries, or the results of medical examines...examinations and also will allow the statistical reports compiled by the Department of Public Health to be used in the civil cases. We don't feel that there should be any restriction as far as allowing the civil cases...the evidence to be used in civil case. Certainly the tort system will allow it to...to deter reckless and negligence to other people. We had a thorough hearing in Committee. It came out of the Committee 14 to nothing unanimously, and so I would ask you for your favorable consideration on House Bill 38."
"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Stearney."
"Will the Gentleman yield please?"
"Yes."
"He indicates he will."
"Before this protocol is introduced in evidence, need it be authenticated? Must you need the coroner?"
"Need what, Sir? I didn't hear."
"Before this protocol can be introduced, must it be authenticated by producing the medical examiner in court who performed the autopsy?"
"Well, the coroner's report...there was some discussion in Committee about that. Certainly, it may from time to time differ in different counties, but of course, your council can discredit to that if he feels...if it is necessary or can be. It is..it is just a compiling of the medical evidence and the statistical reporting of the Department of Health to be used in this...in this...civil cases." 33 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"Does this only deal with blood samples?"
"Well, it deals with...basically blood samples is what we were talking about for alcohol and drugs."
"Alright, does this deal with cause of death or just blood samples?"
"This deals with the...it is...it was based on drawing blood from the deceased for contributing evidence as far as alcohol and drugs are concerned."
"Does it have anything...does this Bill have anything to do with that part of a protocol that deals with cause of death?"
"It could I believe."
"Harry, it could? Are you certain about that?"
"I'm not."
"Perhaps Mr. Leinenweber can answer that question, Mr. Speaker."
"Do you care to yield to Representative Leinenweber, Representative Donovan?"
"Yes, yes certainly."
"Representative Leinenweber."
"The Bill was intended to...respond to two Appellate Court cases in Illinois which have held that blood samples taken in...in automobile accident cases were not admissible in civil proceedings specifically in dram shop proceedings. The intent of the Bill was to remove the...Appellate Court's reasoning from the law, the basis in the...that the Appellate Courts relied upon for not admitting the blood samples. Now the Bill has nothing to do with making it easier to put in a blood sample. Your foundation requirements, etcetera, remain the same. However, there was a provision in the Motor Vehicle Code and in the Coroner's Act itself which held that blood samples taken from a deceased motor vehicle victim could not be 34 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 introduced into evidence in one instance without his consent which the court conclusively said he was incapable of giving because he was dead, and the other one because of a provision in the Coronor's Act which restricted the use of a blood sample taken by the coroner for statistical purposes only. The Bill does nothing about putting in the protocol or anything like that. It is merely to remove an artificial road block to introducing evidence of a person's intoxication in a civil proceeding where the blood sample may very well be the best evidence. There was no opposition to the Bill, if I recall correctly, as amended in Committee. There have been a number of attorneys and other interested people around the state who have requested some clarification in this area because a blood sample taken under the most stringent conditions and analyzed by the most stringent and modern laboratory methods was arbitrarily denied admission in a civil proceeding."
"Two...two short questions. One, the protocol is not going to be introduced as the 'substantiate' cause of death."
"Right. It has nothing to do with the protocol."
"The second question, establishing the foundation for the admissibility of that portion dealing with the blood sample, need you produce the medical examiner...or the person who performed the autopsy?"
"I didn't hear that last question."
"As far as substantiating the blood sample, need you produce the individual who performed the autopsy, the toxicologist?"
"Well, you would have to produce,...well, being in lines with the regular rules of evidence in producing a blood sample, you would have to show in the civil proceeding...presumably you would have to take the person 35 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 who produced the blood sample. That would be correct..."
"So the document itself is not admissible without the proper foundation namely the..."
"That is correct. We don't change the foundation requirements of the admission of a sample of human tissue."
"Okay, no further questions."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Jaffe."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of House Bill 38. As Representative Leinenweber indicated, this Bill passed out of Committee 13 or 14 to nothing. There was no opposition to this particular Bill. It is a good concept. I think that the fears that Representative Stearney has raised have now been answered by Representative Leinenweber, and I certainly would urge an 'aye' vote on House Bill 38."
"Further discussion? The Gentleman from Vermillion, Representative Miller."
"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in support of this Bill also. Certainly if these tests can be used in criminal cases they should be able to be used in civil cases. I think it is an excellent concept, and I congratulate the Sponsor for bringing it to our attention."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Macon, Representative Donovan, to close."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I ask for your favorable vote."
"The question is 'Shall House Bill 38 pass?' All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 160 voting 'aye', and none voting 'no', and this Bill having received a Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. House Bill 64, Representative Matijevich, out of the record. 36 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 House Bill 89, Representative Deuster...out of the record. House Bill 97, Representative Bowman...you want your Bill heard? Read the Bill."
"House Bill 97, a Bill for an Act to amend the Senior Citizens and Disabled Persons Property Tax Relief Act, Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I believe this Bill is probably in the running for one of the least controversial Bills of the Session. Basically what it does is make a purely technical change in the Senior Citizen Circuit Breaker Act. At the present time we have the circuit breaker benefits in two forms. There is a basic property tax relief grant, and then there is an additional grant. The additional grant is computed on the basis of a schedule which varies with income. As it happens, the grant rises and falls over the full range of income, so it is possible that a person's income could change by maybe a penny and their grant would fall by as much as $20. Of course, it can go in the other direction. Their income could change in the other direction by a penny and the grant could go up by $20. But basically, it is a pretty unfair system. All this Bill proposes to do is to replace that system with a flat grant at the average rate so there is no fiscal impact. I ask an affirmative vote."
"Is there any discussion? Is there any discussion? The question is 'Shall House Bill 97 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Wolf, to explain his vote."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know I am a little untimely, 37 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 but I wonder if I could just pose one question to the Sponsor of this Bill before we take the record?"
"Proceed."
"Mr. Sponsor, do I understand that you've changed the formula where it is no longer based on financial need, that we're giving flat grants to people by virtue of a birthday? Is Mr. Bowman on the floor?"
"Bowman..."
"Mr. Speaker, what is the posture of the Bill? I thought the thing was passed."
"Well, I haven't announced the Roll Call yet. The Gentleman asked if he could ask a question and I allowed that."
"Okay."
"If you don't want to answer it, why..."
"Well, no, if you allowed it I will answer it. Would you please restate the question? There was a little confusion over here by my desk."
"I'm sorry to be late. I voted 'no' because I'm not sure I understand the Bill."
"Oh, okay."
"I understand what you're doing, you're changing a formula to make this a flat grant and $80 is no longer...not based on financial need, but based on the basis of a birthday? That is something..."
"No, Representative, you misunderstand. I...there is a myth, if you will, that the present additional grant is based on financial need. That myth is, I think, given currency by the fact that there is a schedule written into the law based on income. However, if you actually compute how much of a grant any individual recipient will get regardless of income, it comes out to just about $80. It varies between $70 and $90 and it is in a very narrow range 38 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 between plus and minus $10 in basically a very unfair way. Let me tell you a situation that occurred in my office that prompted me to introduce this Bill. I have been helping this person with their circuit breaker form for several years. They came in, their income had changed by $10 for some reason, I forget what it was, and their grant fell by $20. And at first we thought it was an arithmetic error, and then when we looked at it we discovered that the present grant's structure allows for very large...like $10-$20 jumps for very, very small change of income, and over the whole range of income it averages out to $80. That is all I'm doing."
"But, partially you are substituting a flat grant of $80 leaving out income as a consideration to some degree."
"Well, Representative, the Revenue Committee studied this carefully, and it was a unanimous vote in the Revenue Committee. That it is right now. The situation as it now stands is that we have what amounts to a flat grant anyway, but with some variations that are basically unfair. And all this does is to eliminate those fluctuations."
"Representative Conti, for what purpose do you rise?"
"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I was...voted along right with the program here, but I have been reading the...the analysis on this Bill here, and I find out that there is a fiscal impact of $6,500,000. I inadvertently pushed my 'yes' button. Have me vote 'no'."
"Record the Gentleman as 'no'. Representative Stiehl."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Vote me 'no'."
"Mr. Bowman...Record Representative Stiehl as 'no'. Mr. Bowman."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I want...Representative 39 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 Conti...Representative Conti please. I want to address this to everybody but especially you. The Bill was amended in Committee. There is no fiscal impact. We changed it so that the flat grant is equal to the average grant that is now received. There is no fiscal impact."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Macdonald."
"I would like to change my vote to 'aye' please."
"Record the...record the Lady as 'aye'. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Huskey. Record the Gentleman...change him from 'aye' to 'no'. Repre...the Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson."
"Change my vote, Mr. Speaker. Record me, Mr. Speaker, as voting 'no'."
"Record Mr. Vinson as 'no'. The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Daniels."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, I thought the Roll was still open. I wonder if you could dump this Roll Call and we could take another vote. There is a lot of us that still have a lot of questions about this. It is an important Bill and it went kind of fast."
"Well, I think that would probably be smart according to the way this Board looks. Everybody wants to talk or explain their vote or change it. Dump the Roll Call. We'll do it again. The question is 'Shall House Bill 97 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'."
"Perhaps the Gentleman could explain the Bill again. There was so much conversation going on. We're a little concerned. We have a...our analysis says, according to what Representative Conti, that there is a $6,000,000 impact. Representative Bowman said there isn't any, and you know, frankly I would like to have those questions answered before we decide how to vote on it." 40 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"Mr. Bowman."
"In addressing this question, let me reassure you that there is no fiscal impact. I have a statement to that effect from the Department. I also would reassure you by the fact that it passed out of the Revenue Committee unanimously, and I am sure that they would not have passed it out if there were any fiscal impact attached to this. The Bill as originally introduced did have one, but I amended it to remove that."
"The Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson, to explain his vote."
"I would like to ask the Gentleman a question, and the question would be, is the analysis right when it says that this change will cause larger grants to people with higher incomes and smaller grants to people with lower incomes?"
"No, that is not correct. The Bill in its original form did that. It is amended now. It does not do that any longer. There is an Amendment on the Bill. It should...the Calendar indicates that there is an Amendment on the Bill and that Amendment eliminates all of the fancy stuff...also the expensive stuff. There is no fiscal impact and it is a flat grant."
"Have all voted who wish? Representative Mulcahey, did you seek recognition?"
"No."
"Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 130 voting 'aye', 21 voting 'no', and six voting 'present', and this Bill having received a Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed."
"Thank you one and all."
"House Bill 101, Representative Abramson. Read the Bill." 41 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"House Bill 101, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in regard to judgements..."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Abramson."
"...Third Reading of the Bill."
"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 101 raises the interest rate to ...on redemption of real estate sold under a foreclosure from 6% to 9%. This brings this Section into conformity with all other judgment interests in the state. We changed the law last year to 9% for judgments, but we forgot to change this one Section."
"Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Sangamon, Representative Kane."
"Will the Gentleman yield to a question?"
"He indicates he will."
"Do some of these Amendments take the lid off completely on an interest rate?"
"No. All this Bill does is raise the interest rate from 6 to 9% on redemption from execution."
"So when it says that some of the interest rates are going to be the same as an Act in relation to the rate of interest, what is the rate of interest in that particular Act?"
"That was Amendment #2 which was incorporated in Amendment #3. All that did was correct Section 7 of the Interest Act which last year when they changed the interest rates to 8% they had overlooked one Section in that Act, and I agreed to take the Amendment to bring that Act into conformity with the other parts of that Act. No interest rate is raised beyond 9% by this Bill."
"Which interest rates are raised to 9% by this Bill?"
"Postjudgment interest rates on redemptions from real estate sales, yes." 42 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"And that's all."
"Yes."
"So there is just one interest rate increase from 6% to 9% by this Bill?"
"Right, and it brings another Section of the Judgment Interest Act into conformity with other Sections in that particular Act, but it raises it to 9%."
"Okay, if the economy straightens out and interest rates generally go back down, will this interest rate stay at 9%?"
"Yes."
"Thank you."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."
"Will the Gentleman yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Who typically would benefit from this increase of 3% in the interest?"
"People who collect interest."
"And who are those people? Investment companies..."
"Largely mortgage bankers, investment companies, governments..."
"Is there...do we have to encourage them to get into this business because the interest rate is so low now that they're not...they're not competing in this area?"
"No, this just brings it into conformity. Right now if you default on your home mortgage and go into foreclosure, the interest rate drops to 6% after the foreclosure and before the redemption. It doesn't have anything to do with people who don't pay their real estate taxes on time. That is the next one."
"That is what?"
"That is the next one." 43 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"That is the next one? Thank you."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Abramson, to close."
"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I ask for a favorable Roll Call."
"The question is 'Shall House Bill 101 pass?'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 108 voting 'aye', 22 voting 'no', and 9 voting 'present', and this Bill having received a Constitutional Majority is hereby declared passed. The Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich, for what purpose do you arise?"
"On a point...on a point of personal privilege, Mr. Speaker."
"Proceed."
"I have been increasingly disturbed about the encroachment of power by the Supreme Court and the courts of this country and particularly this state, and their most recent adventure, I think, should disturb all of you as Legislators and Members of the legislative branch of government. We had a contributory negligence law in the State of Illinois, and the court by its own Act decided that they would take action and legislate. And in fact, in his arguments, Justice Moran, in creating this new judge-made law said there are times when there exists a mutual state of inaction in which the court awaits action by the Legislature, and the Legislature awaits guidance in the court. He wrote, 'When such a stalemate exists and the Legislature has, for whatever reason, failed to act to remedy a gap in the common law of the results in injustice, that injustice and reform must be corrected by the courts.' And that the court has the right to legislate when the 44 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 Legislature doesn't. We have just gone through a period when the Supreme Court of this state has defied the law by refusing to let the accounts of the court be audited by the Auditor General, and this goes on and on. I think the time has come when we have to get back to a separation of powers. If the courts of this state want to legislate, then I think we ought to reduce their terms to two years and let them run as Legislators and reduce their salaries to $28,000 a year. Otherwise, then we ought to separate the branches. And I think that from now on we should be very cognizant of the fact that the Supreme Court of this state is acting as both the Executive, and the Judicial, and the legislative branches. Thank you."
"Are there any announcements? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Daniels."
"Well, a word to Representative Friedrich on his comment. If you want to answer that ruling and I, for one, would agree with what you said in terms of the ruling, Representative Friedrich. Dwight. In terms of the ruling I would agree that the Supreme Court was in error. What we ought to do as a legislative Body is introduce legislation or an Amendment that would come right out and say that is not what we intend as a Legislature. That is not what we intend the law to be. What the law is is what we say it is and pass a Bill acknowledging contributory negligence. So, Representative Friedrich, I think that would be a good Bill for you to Sponsor, if you'd like to do that. I think the Supreme Court was in error in ruling the way it did and I think we ought to take them to task on it. And Representative Reilly would Sponsor that too."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Di... Representative Friedrich, for what purpose do you seek recognition?" 45 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"Well, I want to respond to that. It's not a matter of whether we should have contributory negligence or comparative negligence. It's a matter that the Supreme Court of this state is in a legislative business. I recently had a Bill drawn to raise the level of entry in the Small Claim Court to two thousand dollars only to find that the Supreme Court of this state decided 2500 dollars was a proper entry level, and they did it without law on their own Act. They're increasingly active in the legislative branch and I think it's time that this Body put them back in their place."
"Representative Braun, do you seek recognition? For what purpose?"
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, and to my friend, Representative Daniels, I would point out that while there may be controversy about the propriety of the Supreme Court's ruling, I don't think it appropriate to condemn, entirely, the Supreme Court's action because the law of contributory negligence has always been common law and that has always been a matter... common law has always been a judge-made law, not statutory law. And so the Supreme Court was not in error in acting in an area which had traditionally been consigned to judge-made decision making, to judicial decision making, and so I think before we condemn the Supreme Court; it may be that we disagree with their ruling and I'm certain that appropriate legislation will be forthcoming. But I don't think the Court ought to be criticized on this floor for doing what was properly in their province."
"Alright. I hope all this discussion isn't on the Supreme Court. I'm going to go back to do House Bill 103. If you've got an announcement, if you'll hold it. Representative Macdonald. If you'll hold your 46 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 announcements for a minute, I understand we've got somewhat of an emergency with House Bill 103 on Third Reading. Representative Abramson. Read 103 would you, Mr. Clerk?"
"House Bill 103, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Abramson."
"Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to take this Bill back to Second Reading for the purpose of an Amendment."
"The Gentleman asks leave to return the Bill to the Order of Second Reading. Are there objections? Hearing none, the Bill is returned. Second Reading. Are there any Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #1, Abramson. Amends House Bill 103 on page one, line one and so forth."
"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Abramson, on Amendment #1."
"Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to withdraw Amendment #1."
"Withdraw Amendment #1. Further Amendments."
"Floor Amendment #2, Abramson. Amends House Bill 103 on page one, line one..."
"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Abramson, on Amendment #2."
"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Amendment #2 to House Bill 103 raises the interest rate on delinquent sales of real estate taxes. The problem right now is that there's a 24% interest rate on the average for redemptions from real estate tax sales. The people who bid on the tax sales andbuy the taxes can't afford to buy them at that rate. So the tax sale is scheduled for next week can't go ahead. There's no bidders unless the interest rate is raised. This raises the average interest rate to 36%. I move the adoption of the Amendment."
"Representative Ebbesen, for what purpose do you 47 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 rise?"
"Mr. Speaker, I couldn't hear three words that he said. I'd like to hear that Amendment and..."
"Alright. Your point's well taken. The House will be in order. The Gentleman is trying to present his Amendment. The Members will be in their seats. Representative Abramson, do you want to make another pass at that?"
"Well, there's four things. One, it establishes a new interest schedule for redemption payments from tax foreclosure sales. Okay. It increases the maximum interest penalty bid on sale from 12% to 18%. Increases late payment penalty from 7% to 12%, and increases the amount paid to the indemnity fund from ten dollars to twenty dollars."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from DeKalb, Representative Ebbesen."
"Yes, would the Sponsor yield?"
"Indicates he will."
"I still didn't... That wasn't too clear, but are we talking about the sale of delinquent property taxes and interest rates? Whose benefit is this? The ones who are purchasing or the ones that are about to lose their property?"
"Okay. If you didn't pay your real estate taxes last September when they were due, this May they're going to sell. The counties are going to sell the taxes, okay, in order to raise money to pay their expenses. There's an interest rate that is paid on delinquent taxes, and it's collected by the people who buy the taxes. It's collected from the redemptions. So, first of all, they take a risk on whether the tax is going to be redeemed or not and whether that they're bidding on is worth anything or not. 48 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 So the average interest rate for 12 months now is 24% and we're raising that to an interest rate which is attractive to attract bidders in order for counties to collect the taxes."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, I'm not sure whether I really understand yet, but the noise level, Mr. Speaker, is horrendous in here. But if this Amendment is for the benefit of those people who are out purchasing delinquent, the real property that is delinquent in the taxes and it benefits them, I'd like a better explanation with a lower noise level in here so I can understand what this Amendment does. It's a serious Amendment."
"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Madison, Representative McPike."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"I believe that you had a Bill in Revenue last week identical to this Amendment that failed in Committee. Is that correct?"
"It was postponed in Committee and the Chairman forgot to repost it."
"It was... you're right it was because there was some unanswered questions. I think that the Members on the floor should be aware of the exact rate of interest that you're increasing this to. So could you answer and explain to the Members the various rates. Let's say if they... a piece of property is redeemed between 12 and 18 months. What rate is this Amendment going to... What interest rate will this Amendment provide?"
"In order to give the proper picture. I'll give the schedule."
"Fine."
"If you redeem within two months after the sale, it's 49 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 three percent per month present and the proposed interest rate under this would be six percent a month. If you redeem it between two and six months, the present interest rate is 12% and this proposed interest rate under this Amendment is 18%. Between six months and 12 months, the current interest rate is 24% and the proposed interest rate is 36%. Between 12 months and 18 months, the current interest rate is 36% and the proposed interest rate is 54%. Between 18 months and 24 months, the current interest rate is 48% and the proposed in 72%. This is cummulative from the date of the sale. It's an effective annual percentage rate of about 36%."
"Could you also tell the Membership what parcels of property this applies to? Does it apply to just commercial property or is it residential property? Would it apply to a widow who fell behind in her tax payments and whose property was bought at a tax sale or would it just apply to large industrial and commercial buildings?"
"This applies to delinquent real estate taxes."
"For all properties then?"
"That's correct."
"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to speak against the Bill."
"Proceed, Representative."
"I think the Sponsor outlined it perfectly and if the Membership approves of the interest rate that he is proposing, then they should vote for this increase. I, myself, think that the current rates that vary from three percent up to 48% are sufficient. This Amendment would increase those rates by about 50%. Specifically, for a one year, you're talking about 18%, for two years you're talking about 72% and anything after two years it's 72% plus 24% per year thereafter. So the third year you're talking about 96%. Now I think those interest rates are 50 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 excessive. I think they're excessive especially since they're applied to all properties, not just commercial properties but any piece of property that may be bought at a tax rate. I think that the bidders under current law. have the incentive necessary to buy the property. The interest rates are high enough that they can make not only a decent profit but I would think at these rates they could make a very good profit. I think it's...I think you should look at the interest rates before you decide whether or not this is a good Amendment."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins. The Gentleman from Wayne, Representative Robbins."
"Mr. Speaker, I think this is one very good reason why we should adopt rules to do away with a deadline on introduction of Bills. When this Bill did not come out of Committee, it just simply put another Bill and brought it to the floor. It was killed in Committee. This Amendment should be killed with the Bill at the present time. This is asking too much for those that have troubles. If a... In southern Illinois this last year, we had a drought so bad that you couldn't hardly find enough water to wash your feet in. Now if you can't find any water, you can't raise any crops and as much as these farmers is going to have to try to pay some of this kind of interest to redeem their land. I think this is a bad Amendment and I think the Amendment should be voted down."
"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Getty."
"Will the Gentleman yield?"
"Indicates he will."
"Representative, have you computed or do you have any figures as to what the effective annual percentage rate on 51 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 this would be for the various categories?"
"We haven't computed at, but it varies widely considering we're grouping periods of months together. So if you..."
"I'm sorry. I can't hear."
"... two months and..."
"Speak up would you, Representative Abramson."
"I haven't computed the annual percentage rate."
"Alright. Is there a specific problem which causes you to introduce this Amendment that you're trying to meet?"
"Yes."
"And, is there a problem in having delinquent taxes being bought up? Is that the problem?"
"That's correct. Right now there is between 75 and 100 thousand parcels in Cook County that are delinquent. The people should have paid the taxes last September. They didn't pay them. They're suppose to go to sale next week. The tax buyers say they're not going to buy taxes at 24%. It costs them two to three percent over prime plus holding a 20% reserve. So it costs them about 22% to buy money to go out and buy taxes for a 2% spread. They can't do it."
"Okay. So they're buying at 24% and they're having to borrow money at prime which is currently about 18% plus two or three? Is that right?"
"That's correct."
"So, they're paying 21% for they're money and they go out and use that money and they buy something that gets them 24% if it's redeemed. So they're only making 3 points on it."
"That's correct."
"And that's at this point, not an incentive for buying delinquent property."
"Buying taxes is considered a high risk investment and 52 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 a 3% spread on this type of investment is simply not enough to attract buyers."
"Now what will happen if the buyers don't come in and buy?"
"The county's going to have to go out and borrow money from the banks at some interest rate that will cost the taxpayers who pay their taxes rather than the people that don't pay their taxes."
"Okay. So, in other words, it's going to cost the taxpayers who pay their taxes additional money because the county is going to have to borrow it to substitute for these taxpayers who don't pay. Is that correct?"
"That's correct."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to address myself to the Bill."
"Please proceed, Mr. Getty."
"It appears to me that this Amendment is very much needed, especially in an area where you have a 100 thousand pieces of delinquent property. Now if tax buyers won't buy because there's not enough of a spread. There's not enough incentive for them, that means the county's going to have to get the money from somewhere. That means taxpayers who do pay their Bills, our average taxpayer who concerned about paying his taxes in a timely fashion, is going to end up paying for this rather than have those people who don't bother to pay their taxes end up having to pay the penalty. I'm going to support this Amendment."
"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Mulcahey."
"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."
"Gentleman moves the previous question. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', al opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, and the previous question have been moved. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Abramson, to 53 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 close."
"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, although at first ... these interest rates seem a little bit onerous, when you actually analize what the situation is, these are, by and large, large commercial people who are making economic decisions that it's cheaper not to pay real estate taxes let all the other taxpayers carry our weight and redeem them at the end or maybe buy them at a scavenger sale for a couple of bucks. So what we're going here is providing an attractive interest rate to tax buyers who take the risk on whether the taxes are going to be redeemed or not or they're going to end up owning some derelict building. They go out and advance the money for the county, provide money for the services that the county provides without them having to go out and borrow money at high interest rates causing us to pay more taxes. Under this proposal, the people who are delinquent in taxes are the ones who pay the cost regarding the delinquency. I urge the adoption of this Bill."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 103... no. Gentleman moves the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 103. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Representative Kane, to explain his vote."
"Given the Roll Call, I'll pass."
"Representative Levin, to explain his vote."
"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. As somebody who normally does not vote for increases in interest rates, I'll explain my 'aye' vote because I believe in this case it is something that is necessary. The County of Cook is not able to sell all of the delinquent taxes that it needs to. This will allow it to. The same problem I know is 54 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 faced in other counties and as a result, I urge an 'aye' vote on this Amendment."
"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issues there are 53 voting 'aye', 92 voting 'no' and 3 voting 'present' and the Amendment is lost. Further Amendments."
"No further Amendments."
"You want this Bill to remain on Second Reading or back to Third?" Abramson; "Leave it where it is."
"Leave it on Second Reading. Now, announcements. Representative Reed."
"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd ask permission to waive the posting rules on House Bill 1816 so it can be heard for the House Committee on Energy and Environment on Thursday."
"... post... Suspend the posting requirements for what Bills, Representative?"
"House Bill 1816."
"The Lady has asked for leave to suspend the posting rules for House Bill 1816. Are there any objections? The Gentleman from Sangamon, Representative Kane."
"Mr. Speaker, I think that we made the point clear last week that as long as the Chair is selective in how it rules, that I am going to object and others are going to object anytime..."
"There objections noted, Representative Reed. Representative Reed."
"Then I'd move to suspend the rules and go to a Roll Call, Mr. Speaker."
"Lady asks to suspend the appropriate rules to have House Bill 1816 heard. All in favor will signify by voting 55 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. 107 votes required. Representative Kane."
"Mr. Speaker, I think that there are other things involved in here also."
"Pardon."
"I'd like to explain my vote."
"Proceed."
"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, there are other things involved other than simply the position that the Speaker has taken on other issues. It seems that every time we get into a crunch, it's the rights of the public that are trampled. This particular Bill hasn't even been printed yet. Nobody knows what's in it and yet we're going to post it for a Committee hearing later this week. I think that if we're going to have any kind of a reasonable legislative function here, where people other than the 'in' groups can participate, we cannot go along and suspend every posting rule anytime that it comes along. I urge a 'no' vote at this time."
"Have all voted who wish? Does anybody seek recognition to explain their vote on this issue? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 126 voting 'aye', 9 voting 'no' and 9 voting 'present' and the Motion carries and the rule is suspended. Further announcements. Representative McPike, do you have an annoucement?"
"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like leave to table House Bill 1596."
"Gentleman asks leave ... Are you the Sponsor, Representative?"
"Yes."
"Gentleman asks leave to table House Bill 1596. Are there any objections? Objections? Hearing none, leave is granted and House Bill 1596 will be tabled. Further 56 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 announcements. Representative Huskey."
"Mr. Speaker, I move to have the posting rules so we can hear House Bill 1369 in the Motor Vehicles Committee today."
"You ask leave, Representative or did you..."
"Leave. Leave to have..."
"Gentleman asks leave to have what Bill?"
"Have the proper posting rules so we could... House Bill 1369."
"Gentleman asks leave to suspend the posting rules on 1369. Are there objections? Representative Kane objects. Would you care to make a Motion, Representative?"
"I ask a Roll Call, Mr. Speaker."
"Gentleman moves to suspend the appropriate rules... the appropriate rules to suspend the posting rules on House Bill 1369. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Representative Kane."
"I would point out, Mr. Speaker, that the rules require that this Motion be on the Calendar before it can be called and that that rule is not suspendable."
"Point's well taken. It's suspendable by unanimous consent. Dump the Roll Call, Mr. Clerk. You'll have to file a Motion, Representative Huskey. Put it on the Calendar. Are there any further announcements? Representative Kelly." Kelly(Dick): "Mr. Speaker, I'd like to request leave to table House Bill 275."
"Gentleman asks leave to table House Bill 275. Are you the Chief Sponsor?"
"Yes."
"Are there objections? Hearing none, House Bill 275 is tabled. Representative Preston."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would ask leave to suspend 57 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 posting requirements regarding House Bill 1522 to have that Bill heard in the Revenue Committee tomorrow at 4:00."
"1527?"
"1522."
"1522. Gentleman asks leave to have House... to suspend the appropriate rule... posting rules to have House Bill 1522 heard tomorrow. Are there objections? Representative Kane. Representative Kane objects. You'll have to file a Motion, Representative."
"Mr. Speaker, I have filed a Motion and I..."
"You have a Motion filed."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker and I would move for suspending the posting requirements regarding House Bill 1522."
"Is your Motion on the Calendar, Representative?"
"It is not."
"It has to be on the Calendar. We'll have to call it tomorrow. Further announcements. Representative DiPrima."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker, just once again I wanted to make the announcement that tomorrow night the Illinois Department of Illinois Veterans of Foreign Wars is having our legislative dinner and I'm hoping that all of you turn out for it. It's going to be held at the Springfield Hilton. Cocktails at 6:00, dinner at 7:00. Don't forget."
"It was the intention of the Chair to be in Session tomorrow night, Representative DiPrima. In view of the dinner, we'll cancel that Session. Mr. Neff, do you have an announcement? Representative Neff, do you have an announcement?"
"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to request permission of the House to waive the posting requirements on two Bills. Now these Bills are Representative Hannig's Bills. They were to be posted... They've been introduced some time ago. He 58 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 has to have them posted and we, by error, did not get them posted. We'd like to hear these Bills Thursday."
"What are the numbers?"
"Leave House Bill 650 and House Bill 798."
"Gentleman asks leave to suspend the appropriate rules to have House Bills 650 and 698... 798 heard in Committee tomorrow. Are there objections? Representative Kane objects. You'll have to file a Motion and put it on the Calendar, Representative. Further announcements. Representative Macdonald."
"I hope that all of the Members of the Conservation and Natural Resources will pay close attention. Our Committee room has been changed today. We will be in 122 B immediately after adjournment. We would like to have your prompt attendance, please."
"Representative Barnes. Representative Barnes. Representative Stearney."
"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I move to suspend the posting requirements on three Bills, House Bill 464, 576, 577 so it can be heard in Judiciary II Thursday morning."
"Gentleman asks leave to suspend the appropriate posting rules for House Bills 464, 575... 576 and 577 to be heard tomorrow. Are there any objections? Representative Kane objects, Representative Stearney. You'll have to file a Motion to put it on the Calendar. Further announcements. Representative O'Connell."
"Mr. Speaker, I placed a Bill in the Reference Bureau around the first part of March. It left the Reference Bureau last week. It was assigned to a Committee this week or the end of last week. May I have leave to have that Bill heard today?"
"I think you'll have to ask Representative Kane 59 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 that. Gentleman would like to have leave. What's the Bill number, Representative?"
"It's House Bill 1674."
"Gentleman asks leave to House Bill 1674.. the posting rules. Representative Kane, do you object? Representative Kane."
"Is the Bill printed?"
"Yes."
"I object."
"Objections have been noted. Further announcements. Representative Vinson."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker, a question of Mr. Kane. What Bills does he have posted for Committees this week so the Chairman can identify them?"
"Further announcements? Representative O'Connell."
"Mr. Speaker, may I request a Supplemental Calendar for the various Committees?"
"It'll take a little bit of time, Representative, and we're twenty minutes late now. But we'll make... file your Motion and it'll be on the Calendar tomorrow. Representative Reilly."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Human Services Subcommittee of the Appropriation Committee will be meeting in 118 rather than 122 B. 118 rather than 122 B. Immediately after adjournment."
"Representative Wikoff."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Cities and Villages will be meeting in 114 immediately after adjournment and we have a recess meeting set for 6:00 tonight in room C-1 for Cities and Villages Bills that are not heard this afternoon."
"Representative Pullen."
"Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to have... to suspend the posting rule to permit Representative Bowman's House Bill 60 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 1302 and Representative Mautino's House Bill 1653 to be heard in Executive Committee this week."
"The Lady has asked leave to suspend the appropriate posting rules to have 1302 and 1653 heard in the Executive Committee this week. Are there objections? Representative Kane, do you object? Objections have been noted by Representative Kane, Representative Pullen."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I tried."
"Further announcements. Representative Huskey. Representative Huskey."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, the Motor Vehicle Committee will meet promptly at 2:00 if we can get there. Twenty minutes ago. I hope we have all... We have about 40 Bills to hear so let's have some good attendance today."
"Any further announcements? Representative Telcser."
"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, after it's first full rehearsal, the Illinois Legislative Correspondence Association reports the Grid Iron Dinner is in good shape. It's next Tuesday, 6:30 cocktails, 7:30 dinner. The price is still 20 dollars a ticket, the same as 1973. Any Illinois Legislative Correspondent Association Members have tickets. It's one week from tonight."
"Are there any further announcements? Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."
"Mr. Speaker, allowing for a ten minute Perfunctary Session for the Clerk, I now move the House stand adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 12:00 noon."
"Gentleman moves the House stand adjourned until 12:00 noon tomorrow. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no' and the 'ayes' have it and the House now stands adjourned. Representative Huff, did you seek recognition?" 61 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981
"Yes, Mr. Speaker. I was hoping that it would be announced but it wasn't. I'm seeking inquiry as to where and when the Committee on Insurance will meet."
"Check with Representative Epton. He can tell you that."
"Thank you."
"The Insurance Committee is meeting in D-1 in the Stratton Office Building immediately. Thank you."
"Introduction and First Reading of Bills. House Bill 1862, Watson, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1863, Nelson, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Architecture Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1864, McPike, a Bill for an Act concerning public utilities. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1865, Stearney, a Bill for an Act to amend the Evidence Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1866, Stearney, a Bill for an Act to amend the Athletic Exhibition Registration Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1867, Stearney, a Bill for an Act to create an Act to regulate professional boxing and wrestling events. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1868, Friedrich-Leverenz, a Bill for an Act to amend the Purchasing Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1869, Schraeder, a Bill for an Act to amend the Downstate Teachers' Article of the Pension Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1870, Doyle, a Bill for an Act to amend the Chicago Park Employees Article of the Pension Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1871, Doyle, a Bill for an Act to amend the Chicago Park District Park Employees Annuity and Benefit Article of the Illinois Pension Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1872, Jane Barnes, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. 62 STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 29th Legislative Day April 28, 1981 First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1873, Breslin, a Bill for an Act granting state employees subject to the Personnel Code the right to organize and bargain collectively. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1874, C. L. McCormick, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Health Facilities Planning Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1875, McClain-Giorgi-McPike, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Labor Relations Act. First Reading of the Bill."
"No further business. The House now stands adjourned." 63