Illinois House Floor Debate — April 29, 1981

"The House will be in order and the Members will please be in their seat. Reverend Stephen Allgeier from the First Assembly of God Church located in Joliet, Illinois will lead us in prayer this morning."

"Let us pray. Dear Lord, thank You for this day You have given us. May we fully appreciate all it has in store for us. Thank You for the gathering of these men and women. Grant unto them wisdom as they work through today's business. We confess that we are finite human beings and therefore limited. Yet, may each person approach the complex issues before this Legislature without hesitation. Let the gathering of many voices guide toward fair and just decisions, that will benefit the individuals of Illinois as well as the state as a whole. It is with confidence we pray, for we pray in the Name of the Almighty One. Amen."

"Thank you, Reverend. And we'll be led with the pledge today by Representative Currie."

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United State of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Could I have your attention for a minute, please? We have a guest here with us today, the Attorney General from the State of Indiana. Mr. Lindley Pearson is going to say a word or two to the Members of the Illinois House."

"Thank you, George. I'm glad to be over here today. I'm visiting Ty Fahner. We're discussing a common problem that we have involving the Kankakee River. We, in Indiana where it's a hot political issue for me so I thought if we got our heads together we could try to do something about it. Hopefully for the benefit of both the people of 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 Illinois and the people of Indiana. But, I'm very happy to be here in Springfield. Ty and I both found out we have something very much in common is that we always talk about Lincoln because Lincoln vas from, of course, Indiana between the years of 7 and 21 and then went to Illinois. And I always tell the stories when I talk about Lincoln about his going bankrupt in Illinois and running the country store. So, I'm very glad to be here and the hospitality has been very fine. Thank you very much."

"Tyrone Fahner, the Attorney General, is here with him. Thanks, Gentlemen. Nice to have you with us. Committee Reports."

"Representative Catania, Chairman from the Committee on Public Institutions and Social Services to which the following Bills were referred; action taken April 28th, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations; 'Do pass' House Bills 1120 and 1362. Do pass as amended House Bills 454, 580 and 896. Do not pass as amended' House Bill 982. Do pass Consent Calendar' House Bill 1118. Do pass Short Debate Calendar' House Bill 1126. Representative Huskey, Chairman from the Committee on Motor Vehicles to which the following Bills were referred; action taken April 23rd, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'Do pass' House Bill 1232 and 1363. 'Do pass as amended House Bills 648 and 656. Do pass Consent Calendar House Bill 1117. Do pass Short Debate Calendar' House Bill 817. Representative Macdonald, Chairman from the Committee on Conservation and Natural Resources to which the following Bills were referred; action taken April 28th, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'Do pass' House Bill 1275. Do pass as amended' House Bill 1157. 'Do pass Consent Calendar' House Bill 894. Do pass 2  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEВАТЕ 30th Legislative Day as amended Short Debate Calendar' House Bill 1175. Representative Rigney, Chairman from the Committee on Agriculture to which the following Bills were referred; action taken April 28th, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'Do pass' House Bill 732 and 1557. 'Do pass as amended' House Bill 629, 630, 787, 819. 'Do pass as amended Short Debate Calendar' House Bill 1172. Representative Epton, Chairman from the Committee on Insurance to which the following Bills were referred; action taken April 28th, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'Do pass' House Bill 128, 282, 1495. 'Do pass as amended' House Bill 267, 781 and 1483. 'Do pass Consent Calendar' House Bill 963. 'Do pass as amended Consent Calendar' House Bill 567. Interim Study, House Bill 169, 315, 332, 833, 966, 1133, 1197, 1198, 1199, 1200, 1201, 1202, 1203, 1276, 1307 and 1308. Representative Catania, Chairman from the Committee on Public Institutions and Social Services to which the following Bills were referred; action taken April 28th, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'Do pass as amended' House Bill 1682. 'Do not pass as amended' House Bill 1207."

"Take the Roll Call record, will you, Mr. Clerk? 174 Members answering the Roll Call. There's a Quorum of the House present. If I could have your attention, we have some champs here on the podium with me this morning. The Quincy Blue Devils, the AA Class champs for the State of Illinois represented in the 48th District by Representatives Findley, Mays and McClain. And Representative McClain is going to make the introductions."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, it's a great deal of pleasure that Craig, Jeff and I introduce to you the Class AA champions this 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE ) 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 year. The Quincy Blue Devils are the third team in the history of Illinois to ever become national champions. Talorville and Collinsville are the only other two city schools in our state that ever became national champions. The Quincy Blue Devils are 33 and 0 this year. They had one tough game that I had the pleasure of observing against Lincoln, Illinois. It's a very tough game physically and emotionally. It's a great honor that I introduce a coach that held the team so closely together with discipline and poise that that game was not out of hand. Coach Jerry Legget has just recently been placed in the Hall of Fame in Bloomington for Illinois Schools and he is now the Basketball Coach of the Year. It's a great deal of pleasure that I introduce to you a very fine Gentleman, Coach Jerry Legget."

"Thank you, Mike. These young men have been very successful. They have been a source of pride to their parents and their friends, to their school and their community and it's a pleasure to introduce you to them....introduce them to you today. As Mike said, their state championship stands out, but also the fact that they were named by Basketball Weekly in the national sports services as the number one high school team in the United States is a source of pride to the players and myself. At this time, young men, would you hold up your hand when I introduce you? Our three managers: Jim Powell, Shane Barnes, Kyle Cookson. Players: C. Brace,... Brad Schraeder would you raise your hand? Phil Hoffman. Mark Sparrow. Mark Coffman. Joe Heyers. John Leper. Tim Houghesman. We have four of our five starters here today. Would the starters raise your hands? A senior, Richie Hawkins who made that 70 foot shot, a senior, Scot Allen, two young men who will be with us next year, a junior, Bruce Douglas, and 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 a sophomore, Dennis Douglas. I think it's interesting that the two Douglas boys outscored the second place team all by themselves in the State Championship game. One of our young people couldn't be with us today as he was representing his country. He played on the United States team which Saturday night defeated Russia 99-94 in the World Youth Championship games in Annaheim, Germany. The state championship was certainly a highlight for this group of young men, but being with you today has been another highlight of our season. And thank you very, very much."

"Thank you very much, Coach. I believe we've got a Resolution there, Mr. Clerk. Would you read the Resolution?"

"House Resolution 153; Whereas, the Quincy Blue Devils captured the Illinois High School Class AA basketball championship on March 21st, 1981 and whereas, the tournament championship capped a perfect season of 33 wins and no losses for the Blue Devils, who thus have become only the tenth undefeated state champions in the 74 year history of the tournament and whereas, the Blue Devils rated #1 in the state throughout the season, completed their phenomenal season in convincing fashion, winning their eight post season games by an average margin of over 32 points, and whereas, led by first team All-State sections Mike Pain, Bruce Douglas, the Blue Devils captured Quincy's second state title and helped solidify Quincy's claim as the top basketball community in Illinois, and whereas, Quincy High School, the community of Quincy and the entire state can take pride in the achievements of these young men who have rivaled the greatest teams ever assembled in the history of Illinois high school basketball, therefore BE IT RESOLVED BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE EIGHTY-SECOND GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF 5  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, that we extend our heartiest congratulations to Coach Jerry Legget and the state champions of Quincy High School and that we wish Quincy High School continued success as they strive next year for the 25th appearance of the Elite Eight and be it further RESOLVED that suitable copies of this Preamble and Resolution be presented to Coach Legget and each player and manager of the Quincy Blue Devil team."

"Thank you, Mr. Clerk. That Resolution has already been passed and adopted and each one of you members of the team will receive a copy if you haven't already. I would like to congratulate you, Coach, on the fine job that you and your team have done for the State of Illinois. Representative McGrew, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On the Resolution, I would like to, as a Representative of the Silver Streaks' area, I would like Coach Legget to know that we would like to keep our coaches in education. If you'd like to come up, we'd like to talk to you."

"This is not your day, Representative McGrew. It belongs to these guys. Thanks again, Coach."

"I know it."

"Representative Bradley, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Well, on the Resolution, if you'd keep Representative McClain right there, I think I heard him say in the last resolve of the Resolution that it was greatest team ever assembled. Thornridge High School would like to debate that question with you."

"Representative Redmond."

"Will you keep Representative McClain there for a moment, please?" 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 30th Legislative Day

"Representative McClain, would you return to the podium please?"

"I've been advised that in 1927 at the Stag National Tournament Morton High School from Cicero actually in a tournament won the National Championship 18 to 16. It wasn't a newspaper poll. It was an actual tournament and Morton was the National champs. So I wonder if you would correct your introduction? Thank you."

"We'11 set the record straight on that. Representative McClain appreciates the history lesson. On page six of the Calendar under the Order of House Bills, Third Reading appears House Bill 33. Representative Neff. Out of the record. House Bill 64, Representative Matijevich. Out of the record. House Bill 89, Representative Deuster. Out of the record. 104, Representative Abramson. Want to call it? Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 104, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Abramson."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 104 is a Bill that implements the Constitutional Amendment which was passed over ovewhelmingly by the people of the State of Illinois last November. What this Bill does is for multi-family, that's over seven units, industrial property, vacant nonfarm land, it reduces the redemption period after a scavenger sale of taxes to six months from the two years now. What the Bill is designed to do is implement the new Constitutional Amendment and give communities an opportunity to get property back on the tax rolls quicker, be able to get better prices for properties at scavenger sales because buyers will know that in six months they will be able to take title to the 7  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 property rather than another two years down the line."

"Is there any discussion on House Bill 104? The question is, 'Shall House Bill 104 pass?' All in favor will signify by voting 'aye' and all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record. On this issue there are 136 voting 'aye', 6 voting 'no' and 3 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 109, Representative Ronan. Out of the record. House Bill 115, Representative Wikoff. Out of the record. House Bill 116, Representative Vinson. Out of the record? House Bill 138, Wikoff. Out of the record. 139, Wikoff, out of the record. 140, Wikoff. Out of the record. 143, McAuliffe. Want your Bill called, Representative McAuliffe? Mr. Clerk, read House Bill 143."

"House Bill 143, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative McAuliffe, on House Bill 143."

"Well, Mr. Speaker...Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 143 is the so called reform Bill on implied consent. At the present time the number of drunk driving arrests in Illinois are going down while a number of drunk driving deaths are going up. Part of the reason for this is the law is so cumbersome as it is now written that police officers won't take the time to process the drunk driver. It takes between three and four hours presently to process a drunk driver which is sometimes more than half the shift that the police officer is working on the street. So instead of arresting the drunk driver, they give them a pass or they take his keys away or have somebody call up a relative and have them come over and pick them up. This is an attempt to take some of the more 8  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 dangerous drivers off the road. The number of deaths are going up constantly, especially among teenagers and this is a sincere effort to make it easier to arrest a drunk driver, obtain a conviction and hopefully revoke his drivers' license. I'd ask for your favorable consideration."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Kosinski."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Bill was a matter of great concern to the State of Illinois for a number of years. As a matter of fact, about three years ago in a Subcommittee which had extensive public hearings a Bill such as this was formulated then lost in the 'cracks'. I think it's essential to the safety of Illinois that this piece of legislation be passed and passed promptly today. I thank you."

"Any further discussion? The Gentleman from Henderson, Representative Neff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think this is probably one of the most important pieces of legislation we'll have this Session pertaining to safety on the highways. Under the present law which was passed in 1972, we made several errors. We did not make this as strong as it should have been and one of the big errors that we found is the time it takes to process for a police officer. When we held hearings on this through the Motor Vehicle Laws Commission we found out that under our present law it takes from three and a half to four and a half hours to process a person. As we know, a person has...we have to give two tests, breathalizer tests. Under these tests...have to be given fifteen minutes time, but more than that, the police officer has to give him 90 minutes before he can make a decision. Also, we have included in this Bill something that is very important as 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 far as the drug abuse on our highways and that's a urine and blood test which is the only way we can test these drivers for...to be sure whether they're driving under the influence of drugs besides alcohol. We've found in some of our testimonies that the drug abuse is sometimes even worse than the drunken drivers. Therefore, it's so important that we do because under this law, we will be able to...the police officer, the arresting officer, will be able to process these within probably 30 minutes. We're the only state that requires two tests, breathalizer tests. All the other states that have this have only one test. So, our convictions have gone just the opposite of what we're having. We're having less convictions today than we were having before the passing of this test. So, it's worked to the disadvantage of getting the drunken driver on the road. This legislation is sponsored by ... agreed upon by the Secretary of State's Office and the Law Enforcement Office and practically every other group in the state has showed an interest. We've had them all testify on it. Therefore, I hope we'll give this a good vote."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Chapman."

"Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield for a question, please?"

"He indicates he will."

"I'm wondering since a urine test might be designated as one that would be required to be taken, what kind of standards there are in the Bill which must be met in order to give the test to members of the opposite sex?"

"Mr. Speaker and Representative Chapman, the Department of Public Health would be... would formulate the policy for taking urine samples. It would be up to them to do it."

"If I may follow that one further step, where in the 10  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 Bill is it designated that they would establish these guidelines?"

"I really couldn't tell you right now. I just know that that's the way it's drawn up. We had testimony from the people of the Department of Public Health."

"I don't appear to see anywhere in the Bill where there is a designation of this nature. And I do have some concern about this Legislature causing another scandal like the scandal we had at the...the time of strip searches a few years ago that were provided...which were performed on members of the opposite sex without any kind of guidelines or standards whatsoever. And this Legislature passed a law which required that certain standards be met in order for strip searches or body cavity searches to be performed. And it appears to me that there should be something similar that is written into this Bill to avoid a reoccurrence of this kind of problem or this kind of issue."

"Is there any further discussion? The Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."

"Well, let me say, Representative McAuliffe...Representative McAuliffe, to begin with, you know, I'm in favor of the concept of stiffening penalties for conviction of drunk driving, but I think it's...there's some individual parts of this Bill I'd like to ask about just to see what your response is and what they might be willing to do assuming...and I assume it'll get over to the Senate. One of my concerns is the provision of the Bill that would stipulate that unconscious, incapacitated people are deemed to have consented to a breath, blood or urine test and also that individuals even without consent can have those tests administered. How do you get over the 'Schmirver case and the Rochen case' that clearly said that those ...that sort of a procedure is unconstitutional?" 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day

"Well, you. April 29,1981 not being a lawyer, I can't argue the law with But this is the law...we copied our law off of California and the Supreme Court has upheld the law there and I'm sure they would uphold it here. This is really...This is currently the law in about 30 other states."

"Why do you have the provision that refusal to submit to a test is admissible in evidence? Why...I mean, the law is now just as it is in any other area that the evidence of whether you did or didn't submit to a test is not a relevant factor to whether you're guilty of drunk driving. Why should your refusal to submit to a test be admissible in a case where that isn't the issue?"

"Well, we want to encourage the people to take the test."

"Well, I agree with that. But I don't think...I think you're allowing admission of irrelevant evidence when you allow the question of whether somebody did or didn't take a test doesn't bear on the issue of whether they're violative of the statute or not. I guess...My other question is that right now in an implied consent hearing that you have to inform an individual that his or her driving privileges will be suspended if they refuse to submit to a test. Now, you're saying that the...that you don't have...under the law as you would propose to amend it, that you don't have to inform the individual of that eventuality if they refuse to submit to the test?"

"I didn't quite follow that question."

"Right now in an implied consent hearing when you're trying to revoke them for three or six months you're required in the procedural stage as a police officer or otherwise to inform them about the consequences of failure to submit to a test and then later on in the implied 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29, 1981 consent hearing you're required to ask the question and receive the answer, 'Did you inform them of their...of the fact that if they didn't take the test their rights would be suspended? Why do you want to eliminate that provision from the law?"

"I don't know."

"Okay. Well, speaking to the Bill, I really think Representative McAuliffe has directed himself in this Bill to a real problem. And that is, the incidents of drunk driving and the effect on innocent lives around the state. But I don't think it's so easy to say that because you're in favor of that proposition that a particular Bill is the best vehicle to it. I think this makes some significant improvements and for that reason I'll probably vote for the Bill. But I hope that when it gets over in the Senate and it's my oversight and other people's here in the House that some of these incidental provisions that I've alluded to and some of the Constitutional problems can be corrected so that we can come out with a Bill, one that will address itself to the problem and two, that will pass Constitutional muster and the various tests that it's undoubtedly going to have in the courts so that we can really get at a problem that exists. So, with that admonition and those comments and my hopes, I'm going to vote for the Bill, but I think it's got some cleaning up to do in the Senate and back here on concurrence."

"The Gentleman from Madison, Representative Wolf."

"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, I also arise in support of this very fine legislation. I think it's a Bill a long time in coming. Under the implied consent portion of the Bill I think that law enforcement agencies will have the tools that it needs to develop the statistical information to determine at what levels certain persons who use certain 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 substances create a serious highway hazard. And I would sincerely urge your support."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Stearney."

"Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I rise in opposition to this measure. However, out of deference for my good friend, Representative McAuliffe, I'm not going to ask him any questions."

"Thank you."

"However, I do want to speak to the content of his Bill and that is, if you were to look at the last page, page 14, the last paragraph, it really broaches on the question of constitutional significance. And that is, now let me remind you that if any of you were arrested today and you invoked your right to remain silent after the police had advised you had a right to remain silent, then under 'Doyle vs. Ohio' which is the US Supreme Court decision, they said that the fact that you invoked your right to remain silent could not be used against you in the state's case in chief in prosecuting you for the offense for which you were arrested. Now mind you, however; this Bill just simply overrides and walks over that decision by saying, now that if you refuse to consent, that refusal is admissible against you, not only in a civil proceeding, but in a criminal proceedings as well in which you may be sentenced to the county jail for up to one year. Now, that mind you, I suggest is definitely unconstitutional. But not only that, I don't think any of us should say if an individual invokes his Constitutional right to remain silent, or refuse a test, that that should be admitted against him in the state's case in chief and for which he can be sentenced to jail for one full year. Mind you, this Motor Vehicles Commission should not be suggesting such legislation so as..which is so radical. Not only that, I'd like to remind 14  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 you that it also says that an individual who happens to be convicted of such an offense, that if he were arrested within five years thereafter for the same offense and makes a refusal to give a breathalizer, he loses his driving privileges for one full year for that act, namely invoking his Constitutional right to remain silent. Again, we penalize him. It is just like the Fifth Amendment, right to remain silent, and then we create the immunity laws by saying if you do remain silent we are going to sentence you to the county jail for six moths or until you come forward and testify before the Grand Jury. This is another attempt to emasculate the Fifth Amendment and that we should not be doing even in this Drunken Driving Act. You cannot penalize an individual continuously for invoking his right to remain silent and now we're going one step forward...further by saying no longer will you lose your license merely for three months by invoking your right to remain silent, but no, we're going to suspend your license for six full months. We're going a bit too far. What I suggest and I told this to Representative McAuliffe now, is that this Bill should not get 89 votes. He's done his best. He's brought it forward. He's supported the Motor Vehicle Commission, but it should not get 89 votes. It should fail. And, then we could amend it and do something to rectify some of these problems, but not emasculate the law as is and the Fifth Amendment rights. I don't believe the Gentleman wants that and he should not be given that prerogative. I urge you vote 'no' on this horrendous measure. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Speaker...Representative Redmond."

"Will the Gentleman yield for a question? Representative McAuliffe?" 15  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 30th Legislative Day

"He indicates he will."

"When this Bill was originally passed, I believe it was 1971, one of the provisions in the original Bill provided that a blood test could be taken from an unconscious person without granting consent and at that time, there were some of us who were alarmed....."

"Just a minute, Mr. Redmond. Let's see if we can get a litte order. Mr. Doorkeeper, there's a lot of people on this floor that don't belong here. Would the Members be in their seats. We're on Third Reading here. Proceed."

"There were some of us at that time that were alarmed that people who did not have sufficient medical training would be sticking needles in unconscious people. Now, as I read this Bill, it would appear to me that it authorizes the taking of blood tests. It doesn't elaborate on how that would be done or who it would be done by. Now, can anybody stick a needle in an unconscious person's arm and take a blood test?"

"Representative Redmond, the Bill was amended in Committee to state that only a doctor or a nurse would take a blood sample."

"Thank you."

"The Lady from Marshall, Representative Koehler."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I can understand how certain defense attorneys might be against this piece of legislation, but in the defense on the interests of public safety, I would like to rise in support of Mr. McAuliffe and Mr. Schraeder's Bill. I think they've done a good job in starting this effort. In fact, I would like to see even tougher laws, but I realize that we must take this one step at a time. Our objective must be to get the intoxicated driver off the road. Recently two children in our area were hit by a DWI driver. The one child died. We must do 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 our utmost to prevent these personal tragedies. Tougher laws and stricter enforcement penalties are one way. Until our drunk driving laws mean something we will not see an end to this problem. I strongly urge the passage of this legislation. Thank you."

"The Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I rise in staunch support of this measure. If there were any criticism of the Bill I would say that it might not go quite far enough. But realizing the kind of atmosphere that we have in the House chamber, it is probably as far as we can go. I feel that we have for too long ignored the fact that when you apply for your driver's license you give consent. It is not as though we are finally telling people somewhere down the road that they have to give consent. That consent was supplied at the time they applied for a license. Most of the states do not allow you to reverse that. In Illinois for too long we have permitted the reversal of that consent that is given when the license is applied for. We're going back only a little way now in saying that these consents that were given cannot be revoked as easily nor with as little penalty as in the past. I strongly support the passage of this Bill. I hope that it's one small step in the direction of getting drunk drivers off the road."

"The Gentleman from Morgan, Representative Reilly. No. The Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I strongly support this Bill and as others have previously stated, I think this Bill really needs to go a bit farther. But in terms of people who are concerned about gun legislation, permitting a drunk driver to get behind the 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 wheel of an automobile is a far more deadly weapon in terms of being in a position to kill thousands of people as records have so indicated and injure people for life as a result of many, many accidents. I think this is a strong Bill. It's a good attempt to really do what we need to do in terms of taking people off the highway. Unfortunately it takes them off the highway after they have been involved in this kind of a situation. But it's a good measure to start with and I strongly urge all support of this measure."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Ewell."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, I must rise in opposition to this Bill. I think that the people who speak of the problem of driving on the road under the influence of alcohol.... We have legislation to tend to this particular problem. Those of you who would suggest that it hasn't gone far enough, perhaps we could go back to the original cause and reinstate prohibition. But we have found that it simply doesn't work. What you're doing is tampering with the present law. You're now going to allow for the blood tests, for the urine tests and you're going to suggest that every little station, police station, throughout the county and throughout the state has to have the little urine facilities and the ability to take blood. I'm suggesting to you that you're simply complicating the problem. The problem would be solved more so by the adequate punishment of the offenders by judges who are in a position to judge the cases. I think you're going in the wrong direction. And the effort to take the blood and the urine samples, plus the patent unconstitutionality of several Sections of this Bill, is indeed a tragedy. You are being mislead in your zeal. You are not going to accomplish the problem and if we ever got down to saying, 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 well, you want to go all the way back to prohibition, so be it. If you want to compromise, then I would suggest that we, as Legislators, start setting examples and quit attending all the cocktail parties. I think that we are being naive and insincere. If we are sincere about this problem, I, as a prudent driver, would not be passed by 50 or more Legislators speeding down to Springfield, totally evading the law. This law will not apply to the people who are influential. It will simply apply to some poor John Doe out there on the road who might need a license in order to go to work. You're saying that one or two beers; you're going to take him to the hospital for blood tests; you're going to take him to a lab for a urine test, plus the tampering with the Bill as it exists will merely lead to loopholes for unscrupulous defense attorneys. I'm suggesting to you that your zeal is in error and the Bill deserves to be defeated. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Marion, Representative Friedrich."

"Mr. Speaker, could we try again to have a little order?"

"All right. The Members will please be in their seats."

"Would the Sponsor yield to a question?"

"Indicates he will."

"Under this Bill, Mr. Sponsor, would the test that was given, the results of the test have to be accepted as irrefutable conclusive evidence? In other words, if there were a positive test, would the Judge or the jury as the case may be have any choice whatsoever about deciding that you were guilty?"

"No. I believe that they would have to find him guilty if the tests proved that he was drunk." 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day Friedrich: April 29,1981 "But this is irrefutable evidence which is conclusive if it's positive, right?" McAuliffe: Friedrich: Speaker "Right." "Well, I find myself with a very strange bedfellow in the matter of law enforcement. to In fact, with Mr. Stearney, I don't usually concur with him on law enforcement matters. But I think what you're doing here is empowering the local Gestapo or police in some cases, and I have one such set up in my district where they're really running a Gestapo and if you pass through that district and they don't happen to like you, all they've got to do is haul you over to the side of the road and give you a phony test and say you flunked the test and the Judge and the jury has no choice. I don't like put that much power in the hands of the police. And I don't think you do either because this circumvents the very thing which I was talking about yesterday and that's the separation of powers. I think this lends itself to abuse. I certainly hate to be opposed to anything that would get drunken drivers off the road, but I think that you've gone too far in making the police officer, the arresting office the Judge and the jury. We've already got that in the case of traffic cases. You know now that the Judge has nothing to do with the traffic conviction because when the police officer says you're guilty, you're guilty and that's the end of it. Now DWI is a very serious crime and certainly more far reaching than a speeding ticket SO you're not fooling with just anything here. You've given the power to man's life." a policeman to ruin a

"The Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Schraeder."

"Well, Hr. Speaker, and Members of the House, some of the statements that have been made here I think are 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29, 1981 probably because the Members haven't really realized the important piece of legislation that's being discussed this morning. If you would have heard the testimony that we've had throughout the state and heard the people who were involved in the testimony, a father whose son was in a number of accidents because of drunken driving and he wanted something done about the protection of the citizens, about the young lady who was incapacitated and is for all practical purposes not able to even take care of her own family. She has to have a nurse on duty. And yet we talk about the constitutional rights as mentioned by one of the defense attorneys on the other side of the aisle. Well, who is he trying to defend, an individual drunken driver who is not even the least bit responsible or the general population who have right to be on the street and be protected from those kinds of drivers? And all this Bill does is protect the rights of the average guy. When these tests are given and the results are shown they're permissible in a court of law. Juries have a right and will look at those pieces of evidence to find out if they were taken in an incorrect manner or not admissible. The Judge is going to have the discretion. He knows what evidence is permissible and he knows how to instruct juries in the testing of these drunken driver cases. And I say to you that if we ever want to protect the citizens from the file that doesn't react to the use of alcohol or drugs in a responsible manner, then he ought to suffer the penalty, not some poor mother who is able to do nothing for her family. And I would say that these tests...we talk about who can give the test, a doctor or nurse. Who is more responsible to be able to handle the taking of blood for samples? And who's to say that the small police department that doesn't have a facility close by is going to require 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 someone charged with drunken driving or drug related use to go 40 or 50 miles out of the way? It's ridiculous. He's going to require only the test that's reasonable under the circumstances in which he's making the arrest. And I say to you that it's about time that we do something in regard to drunken drivers. We know that many people drink, in fact, 70% drink. But that isn't to say that 70% of those people that drink are not responsible. It's this small percent, perhaps even a half of a percent that are not responsible. These are the people that are the wrongdoers and we want to protect the other percentage. And I say to you this Bill ought to fly out of here with no dissenting voice so that it can go to the Senate and become law to protect those average citizens and I would earnestly support the vote of everyone on this House floor."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Peters."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question."

"The Gentleman has moved the previous question. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye'; all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative McAuliffe, to close."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, some of the previous speakers mentioned the fact that people would be getting blood tests and urine tests in the police station. That's not the way the Bill is designed. The only person who would give a blood test would be a nurse or a doctor and only in the case where someone was unconscious or dead. A lot of these drivers are smart enough when they are involved in an accident to pretend they're unconscious. And if they do that there's no way you could give them a breathalizer test. So all they have to do is pretend like they're unconscious and go to the hospital and lay there for eight hours or ten hours 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 and when they get sober, wake up and go home. This is one way we can circumvent that. This is a Bill designed to make the streets and highways of Illinois as safe as possible. Now it's impossible to make them 100 percent safe and this Bill may not be 100 percent perfect. But this is an honest attempt to do the best job that we can to take the drunk drivers off the roads in Illinois or get as many of them off the roads as is possible before they kill anymore people. We look at the statistics from 1970 until now, you see that the number of drunk driving arrests has gone down dramatically while at the same time the number of deaths involved with drunk drivers has risen to almost 15...er...almost 15,000. In 1970 we had 15,000 drunk driving arrests. Now we have 4,000. And the death rate is climbing rapidly. The police are not enforcing the law because it's so cumbersome and burdensome now. This is an honest attempt to make the highways safe as possible and I earnestly solicit your 'aye' vote."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 143 pass?' All in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; all opposed by voting 'no'. The Gentleman from Madison, Representative Steele, to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In explaining my vote, I certainly urge the support of this fine legislation. It addresses one of the greatest problems on our Illinois highways today. Certainly our present law is not adequate. Certainly one of the greatest causes of accidents in this state is drunk driving. Something has to be done about it. This is our opportunity to do something about it and I'm happy to see those green lights in support of this good legislation."

"The Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Tuerk, to explain his vote." 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day

"Well, Мг. April 29,1981 Speaker, very briefly, I've noticed in the analysis that the rate of convictions has dropped immeasurably in the last four to six years. I would say that's probably the most telling argument to try and put some teeth in the current law which has apparently been inadequate. It may be a sad commentary on our judicial system as well, but I think it's a sad commentary on the law that we have and I think that's the reason this ought to be and it is overwhelmingly approved."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Jones, to explain his vote. No? The Gentleman from Knox, Representative McGrew, to explain his vote."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The opponents to this Bill are living proof. The comments of a friend of mine, a state trooper, told my son when we were talking about the laws and his comment was, 'You have to obey the laws until you can afford justice'. Vote 'aye'."

"Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Kelley, to explain his vote."

"Mr. Speaker, to explain my vote, my 'yes' vote, I heard one of my colleagues mention financial situation. It would be my opinion if rich man, poor man, no matter who, if he gets drunk and kills somebody, I want that person off the road."

"Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 156 voting 'aye', 7 voting 'no' and 5 voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 145, Representative Terzich. Out of the record. House Bill 146, Representative Hoffman. Out of the record. House Bill 154, Representative Stearney. Out of the record. House Bill 159, Representative Ronan. Out of the record. House Bill 174, Representative Pierce. 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 Out of the record. House Bill 179, Representative Wikoff. Out of the record. House Bill 189, Collins. Read the Bill."

"House Bill 189, a Bill for an Act to amend the Environmental Protection Act. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Collins."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 189 is the Bill that I wrote each and every Member of this House about. It's a Bill dealing with a very serious problem of proliferation of sanitary landfills in many areas of the state, but particularly in areas such as the one that I represent. This Bill was introduced by Representative Giglio, Representative Balanoff and myself to cope with this very serious problem of a multiplicity of landfills being established within a very short distance of each other. It has become an emergency in our district because of the number that have existed... that are in existence in our district. The Bill simply would limit the distance in which a new landfill could be established on..near an existing one. The Bill as introduced would limit it to ten miles. We have amended that to make it five miles in answer to some objections in Committee. And in realization that conditions are different downstate than they would be in our area, we amended the Bill to make it applicable only to Cook County. This Bill, I tell you, is a serious matter. It's an emergency matter in our district, in our area, in our entire county and I would urge the favorable consideration of House Bill 189."

"The Gentleman from Adams, Representative McClain."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Would the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will." 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29, 1981

"Mr. Collins, on your five mile limitation are there any villages or municipalities in Cook County that could then site a sanitary landfill because they're out further than five miles from some vacant land?"

"I'm not sure I understand your question. But this has nothing to do with existing landfills, Representative..."

"No. I'm talking about new sites. Are there any villages or municipalities in Cook County that could ever site a landfill, sanitary landfill, within the County of Cook because of this five mile restriction?"

"Oh, surely."

"Who?"

"Well, I would think any number of villages within Cook County. There are ... There aren't landfills within five miles of many...of many communities in Cook County. The proliferation apparently ...not apparently...The proliferation of landfills is in south Cook County in our area and then there are just a few others in areas such as the Village of Hillside who have the same problem. But there would be...there would be no restriction as to the entire county. It's a big county, Representative McClain."

"Basically it's a local problem that your community has though. Is that not so?"

"No, I wouldn't agree. It's a problem that is in existence throughout the state. However, the..what prompted the Bill was a local problem and when there were objections from downstate areas, I accepted an Amendment to make it only Cook County. I think that everybody in the state has a problem. I know there's a problem right here in Springfield. But my immediate concern was my own area, my own district, and so to ensure the passage or to try to ensure the passage of this Bill I accepted a limiting Amendment." 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981

"Basically with this Amendment on the five mile restriction, it's very possible that the City of Chicago will not be able to site a sanitary landfill. Isn't that true?"

"No, I wouldn't agree to that."

"Well, Mr. Collins, with all due respect, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, if I can speak to the Bill, Mr. Speaker."

"Proceed, Representative."

"Thank you very much. I respect Mr. Collins very much. He had this same piece of legislation in front of the Environment Committee last year...similar Bill. He's amended it substantially since that time and we've heard this issue long before. The issue for us, at least as far as downstate goes, is with these kinds of restrictions on sanitary landfills in the County of Cook what could very possibly happen is you're just going to shift all the sanitary landfill wastes downstate. So what will happen will be that the sanitary landfills will all be sited downstate to receive the refuse of Cook County. I think it's a piece of legislation that ought to be very heavily considered, especially by downstaters in rural communities cause what they will do is the EPA will site the sanitary landfills in your own community to receive that Chicago and Chicagoland waste and there will be nothing you can do about it. I respect Mr. Collins' peculiar problem. I wish there were some other way to handle his community's individual problem rather than really making downstate the dumping ground for the County of Cook."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Meyer, (Ted)." Meyer, Ted: "A question of the Sponsor, Mr. Speaker."

"He indicates he'll yield." 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSENBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 Meyer, Ted: "Representative Collins, does your Bill take into consideration the suitability of the soil that may exist within the five mile limit that you speak of in your Bill?"

"Unfortunately, the suitability of the soil is part of the problem that has made us the lucky beneficiary of the garbage for half the State of Illinois and for neighboring states." Meyer, Ted: "Are you suggesting that landfills should be located in the areas that aren't suitable for landfills?"

"I'm suggesting that landfills should be spread so that they could be put in a number of suitable areas, not all within one area of the state or of the community. I am suggesting that we, a residential area, are sick and tired of breathing the fumes from these monstrosities that have been thrust upon us." Meyer, Ted: "Specifically, what areas of Cook County have suitable soil other ...that wouldn't be five miles from an existing landfill?"

"I have not made a study of areas of suitability." Meyer, Ted: "You don't know of any?"

"I don't know of any? Yes, of course, I've heard of some. But of personal knowledge, I don't know what makes a suitable area. I've been told that the soil in our area has been deemed suitable. It certainly has been by a number of outfits who continue to dump. Apparently there are suitable areas in the area around Hillside in western Cook County. I don't know of others." Meyer, Ted: "If I may address myself to the Bill, Mr. Speaker?"

"Proceed, Representative." Meyer, Ted: "Well, Mr. Speaker, assuming that there are going to be sanitary landfills and assuming that you want to site the landfill in an area that it is ecologically sound, this is the classic example of everybody wants their trash 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 picked up, but in fact nobody wants it set down. Representative McClain put his finger on it. If you want Chicago's trash and Cook County's trash in the collar. counties, vote for this Bill. If you want the urban areas, the highly densely populated areas to attempt in environmentally sound fashion to dispose of their own wastes, do not vote for this Bill."

"The Gentleman from Macon, Representative Dunn. The Gentleman from Macon, Representative Mulcahey."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I can realize the severity of this problem because ve have a very similar situation in Winnebago County as it relates to...as it relates to the city of Rockford. And I really kind of think that if the rest of the State of Illinois was also put in this Bill as opposed to applying only to the city of Chicago (sic, Cook County), it would have helped a little bit. But I'm going to vote for the Bill anyway, Phil. And I just might also point out that this evening at six o'clock there's also a hearing, a Natural Resourc....er...Environment hearing, that's going to have a Bill...a hearing on a couple of other Bills similar to this and I would...I'm sure I'll probably get a lot of support on these two or three Bills. But I'm going to support this one, but we do have one this afternoon that's going to apply to downstate."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Conti."

"Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I can certainly appreciate the problem that Representative Collins has on the south end of the county, but my transportation and labor services alone has tripled my pickup of my garbage. Sometime back I created a multi-tax district for municipalities to get together and create a garbage district so that they can build a..some kind of a disposal unit so that these municipalities in Cook County 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 can be taken care of. This is going to be a serious problem in Cook County, just as bad as the one that Phil is realizing now in the south end of the county. Something must be done. I don't know whether this is the answer or not. But as I said, my transportation and my labor has tripled the cost of picking up trash in my community. I have to travel 44 miles and I can make one load a day with each truck, each vehicle that I have."

"Is there any further discussion? The Lady from Cook, Representative Balanoff."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to speak to the Bill. First of all, I would like to correct a statement from one of the previous speakers. He said that the waste in these dumps comes from Cook County. I'd like the Members to know that the wastes that comes to these small communities are not primarily from Cook County. They come from other parts of Illinois and they come from as far away as Iowa and Wisconsin. The small communities that are involved here, the communities of Burnham and 'Henwish', are ...do not have hills in their area. However, when the residents of these communities look out their windows they can think they are amongst the hills of 'Oklahomer'. That is, they might think they're in 'Oklahomer', unless they are breathing. Because if they are breathing, they will smell the horrible stench that comes from these garbage dumps. Many of them don't open their windows because of the horrible stench or don't go out at night. It is unfair for these small communities to bear the entire burden of dumping operations. In these two small communities there are five landfills and each of them dumps as high Or much higher than the height of this particular room. We need, as Representative Collins stated, emergency relief here and I would appreciate your favorable vote." 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative McCourt."

"Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"I notice from reading this Bill that it doesn't seem to distinguish between a landfill that's in operation and one that might have been filled and no longer operating. Could you explain if there's something...some distinguishing feature here?"

"No. I believe that it's implicit in the Bill that this would be strictly operating landfills. I know you and I have discussed former landfills in your district which have now been transformed into park areas. This would not apply. It is strictly aimed and I believe implicit in the Bill that it would be active open landfills."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, if I might speak on the Bill. It seems to me that since the Bill does not distinguish between an existing landfill that's being operated and one that is not, that this would really present a problem. Let me give you an illustration. In my city of Evanston it's a city of eight square miles and over a period of time we've had three landfills and while these landfills were in operation they were regulated. They were regulated not only by the local community, but they were regulated by the EPA. There were lovely houses built in close proximity to these landfills while they were in operation. And now that the landfills are completely filled they're wonderful city parks. They're an asset to our community. Now what this Bill would do, it would say in a city such as Evanston that once you had a landfill that no longer could you use any other area that was within five miles of that particular landfill. I think we've got enough local regulations with the local authorities plus with the EPA that a Bill like this should be defeated. This is one of these things that 31  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 is going to make it just harder and harder for a local community to handle one of their most serious problems and that is the reasonable disposal of solid waste materials and for that reason, this Bill should not be adopted. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Giglio."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. In listening to the comments of the other speakers I think basically what this Bill will do if we can get it passed, it is going to really get the municipalities on the ball and if they don't want the landfill hills like we have in our district and that's why we're fighting for this Bill, it's going to force them to really sit down and start thinking about what they're going to do to dispose of their garbage. And it was mentioned by one of the previous speakers about the attempt to try to get the municipalities in the surrounding areas to put up a facility to burn and dispose and collect the garbage the way they do in some of the states in the other parts of the country. They do that down in Alabama and Florida and New York...not New York, but some of the other places where they can't dispose of it. They have gone into facilities to burn it and separate it. And if you had something like that which you have...which we have in our community you'd be in here with a Bill like this. So, I would ask you to really consider voting for this Bill cause it could happen to you. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I can't impress upon you strong enough the seriousness of this problem in an area such as mine. And, I would invite each and every one of you to drive down the 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 Calumet Expressway and I would hope you would do it on a warm summer evening with your windows open so that you could smell the stench of these ... of these dumps operating in our district. Believe me, within a very short period ...very short distance in the 30th District, we have four operating landfills right along the expressway there. There are four more within just a very couple of miles and more are being contemplated every day. If you ride along there, you might think if it weren't for the stench and the rodents and the insects, that you were in a ski lodge because those ski hills are getting larger every day and perhaps one day when it snows, we'll be able to put (on) our skis and ski down these mountains of trash that are being dumped in our district. Believe me, this is a serious problem. It's a health problem. They're dumping in there night and day, seven days a week. You can see the flames of the torches burning, trying to burn off some of the gases that are generated by these monstrosities, but it's impossible. It's impossible when the wind blows and this... I'm not talking about an open area. I'm not talking about a desolate, deserted area. This is a residential neighborhood, one in which Representative Balanoff, Representative Giglio and I reside and we resent the fact that we are being made the respository, not only for our own garbage, but for the garbage not only from throughout the State of Illinois, but from as far away as Indiana and Wisconsin. I'm not kidding. This is a vital...it's a serious problem and I implore you, give us 89 votes to send this Bill out of here."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 189 pass?' All in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; all opposed by voting 'no'. The Gentleman from Madison, Representative McPike, to explain his vote." 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, it would seem like it would be very difficult for anyone outside of Cook County to support this Bill. In essence, all it means is that the landfills are no longer going to be located within Cook County as they're filled up and they're looking for new sites and nothing is available unless it's outside of certain geographic boundaries. They're simply going to come downstate. Now, if you want the garbage from Cook County coming downstate then vote for it. If you don't, you should oppose the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Macoupin, Representative Hannig, to explain his vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. As a member of the Conservation Committee which heard testimony on this Bill, I rise to explain my 'no' vote on this issue. I might point out that not a single environmental group testified in favor of this Bill in Committee and the basic reason for this is that the Bill does not really address the real problem of sanitary landfills. And that problem is specifying standards which we must have in the law which says where we can put landfills and where we cannot. Now, while this Bill may serve a purpose for Representative Collins, I do not believe it's really in the best interests of the State of Illinois that we address this legislation in this manner. For that matter, I would urge a 'no' vote on this issue."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 83 voting 'aye', 57 voting 'no' and 13 voting 'present'. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins."

"Hr. Speaker, I'd ask for a poll of the absentees."

"Poll the absentees, Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of the Absentees: Alstat. Boucek. 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day Brummer. Currie. Donovan. Jack Dunn." April 29,1981

"We have to get another printout from the machine. It jumped a line and the Clerk has a problem. We're going to get a new Roll Call. Poll the absentees once again, Mr. Clerk,"

"Poll of the Absentees: Alstat. Boucek. Breslin. Cullerton. Domico. And, Doyle. Farley. Flinn. Garmisa. Hudson. Kucharski. Lechowicz. Levin...."

"Lechowicz, 'aye'."

"Martire. McAuliffe. McGrew..."

"McGrew, 'no'."

"Preston. Richmond. Robbins. Ronan. Schraeder. Stearney. Younge. And, Yourell."

"What's the count now, Mr. Clerk? There are 84 'aye'...voting 'aye' and 58 voting 'no' and 13 voting 'present'. What's your pleasure, Mr. Collins? Mr. Domico, 'aye'. Mr. Beatty, 'aye'. Mr. Bowers, 'aye'. Mr. Hudson, 'aye'. Mr. Bullock."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If this receives the required number of votes I'd like to ask for verification at the appropriate time."

"All right. Have we got all the changes now? Representative Daniels, 'aye'. Representative Turner?"

"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to change my vote to 'present'."

"Record Mr. Turner from 'aye' to 'present'. Representative Alexander."

"Change my vote to 'present'."

"From...Change Representative Alexander to 'present'. Representative Smith? Smith." Smith, Margaret: "Mr. Speaker, I wish to change my vote to 'present' please."

"Change Representative Smith to 'present'. Representative Krska. Change Representative Krska from 35  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 'aye' to 'no'. April 29, 1981 changes? Are there any other Representative Ozella."

"I'd like to change my vote to 'no'."

"How is the Gentleman recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Record him as 'no'. Representative White?"

"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to be changed from 'no' to 'present'."

"Change Mr. White to 'present'. Mr. Levin."

"I'd like to be changed to 'present'."

"Record Representative Levin as 'present'. Are there any other changes? What's the count, Mr. Clerk? Representative Koehler? Record Representative Koehler 'aye'. Have you got the count yet, Mr. Clerk? Representative Breslin?"

"Would you record me as voting 'no' please?"

"Record Representative Breslin as 'no'. Are there any other changes? All right. Representative Collins, on this issue there are 85 voting 'aye', 57..58 voting 'no' and ...how many on 'present'? 18 voting 'present'. Mr. Collins."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, in light of all those surprising changes I would ask that this be put on Postponed Consideration."

"Postponed Consideration for House Bill 189. The Lady from Cook, Representative Topinka, for what reason do you seek recognition?"

"Mr. Chairman (sic), I'd just like to make it known to the Members of the House since Morton High School out in Cicero got so much good play today for having the 1928 basketball team, that Morton is here represented today in terms of 23 students from Morton West High School and their American Government teacher, Craig Lestoff. And they're 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 all up there in the visitors' gallery and I think we should welcome them all. Thank you for coming."

"The Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."

"Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to announce for the record that we had a number of senior citizens from McLean County as a group touring the capital and other scenic sites. Some of them are in the gallery now and I certainly want to welcome them."

"We're getting ready to adjourn. Are there any announcements? The Gentleman from Stephenson, Representative Rigney."

"Mr. Speaker, the Ag Committee will have its recess meeting beginning at two o'clock in room 114."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Barnes."

"Mr. Speaker, the Health and Family Services Committee will have their recess meeting tomorrow at two o'clock in room 114."

"Agreed Resolutions. Wait just a minute. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Meyer, Ted Meyer." Meyer, Ted: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the purposes of announcement, the Energy and Environment Committee will meet in room 118 not 114 as posted as six p.m. today to discuss the suitability of siting of landfills which relates to Representative Collins' Bill which was previously up today. All those who are interested are invited to attend and participate. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Jack Dunn."

"Mr. Speaker, I would like leave of the House to withdraw. two Bills of which I'm the Chief Sponsor. House Bill 1441 and 152....1552. 1441, 1552 I wish to withdraw."

"The Gentleman asks leave to table House Bills 1441 and 1552. Are there any objections? Hearing none, leave 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day is granted. Those Bills are tabled. Cook, Representative Sandquist." April 29,1981

The Gentleman from Sandquist: "Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I have two Motions that I filed yesterday as Chairman of the Committee on Registration and Regulation. They have to do with two Bills which were reassigned to my Committee and, therefore; were not able to post them. So the first one, on House Bill 1192, I'm moving pursuant to Rule 18-K, that we suspend the posting requirement so that the Committee on Registration and Regulation may hear this Bill this afternoon."

"The Gentleman has moved to suspend the appropriate rule for posting of House Bill 1192 to be heard in the Committee on Registration and Regulation. All those in favor will signify by voting 'aye'; all opposed by voting 'no'. 107 votes required. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 138 voting 'aye' and 1 voting 'no'.. And the Gentleman's Motion prevails. Agreed Resolutions."

Clerk Leone: "House Joint Resolution 24, McMaster. House Resolution 231, Madigan-Beatty-Kucharski. House Resolution 232, Mautino. House Resolution 233, Kociolko. House Resolution 234, Farley. House Resolution 235, Bover. House Resolution 236, Kornowicz, et al. House Resolution 237, Steczo-Dick Kelly."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Hr. Speaker and Members of the House, there are a number of Motions on the Calendar dealing with the suspension of Rule 18-K in reference to suspending the posting requirements SO that Bills can be heard in Committee this week. Mr. Speaker, I would like to move that on these Motions dealing with these Bills: House Bill 208, 464, 576, 577, 650, 786, 798, 1180, 1192 is done, 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 1369, 1522, 1648, 1314, 1653 and 1674, 1443..that on these Bills the Rule 18 be suspended which is in reference to the posting requirement."

"The Gentleman.... You've heard the Gentleman's Motion to suspend the posting rules for the Motions that are filed on the Calendar. The Gentleman from Sangamon, Representative Kane."

"Mr. Speaker, I think that the Majority Leader 'snuck in a couple of extra Bills that are other than the ones that are on the Calendar."

"Representative Telcser, are you guilty of that?"

"If I did it was not willful. I had a number of Members up here whispering numbers in my ear. I would simply say,. Mr. Speaker, that only those Bills appearing on today's Calendar which I mentioned should be included in my Motion if I inadvertantly blurted out another number or two."

Speaker Ryan: "Do you have the specific number in mind, Representative Kane, that you question?"

"If he would redo the numbers that he mentioned..."

"Here are the numbers: 208, 464, 576, ...."

"Well, where...I don't see 208 or..."

"208 is on the bottom of the page 15. Representative Balanoff's Bill."

"Okay."

"On the next page, House Bill 464."

"Okay."

It's Telcser: "576, 577, 650, 786, 798, 1180, 1314, 1369, 1522, 1648, 1653, 1674."

"Do you want to add the Bills that you missed under 786 and 1180?"

"No. 11802 Didn't I say...I said 1180, I thought."

"But part of that Motion is several other Bills."

"Well, I want 1180 included in the list. Which other 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 30th Legislative Day one did I miss, Representative?"

"Well, under 1180 there's about seven Bills listed."

"Well, Representative Kane, he has asked to suspend the posting rules to hear..on these Motions that are filed and that's filed under 1180."

"That's fine with me."

"Now, Representative O'Connell, did you have something you wanted to say?"

"Mr. Speaker, may I ask leave to amend Representative Telcser's Motion as regards to House Bill 1674, to have that Motion amended on its face to read Committee... 'Executive Committee' rather than 'Committee on Health and Family Services' since that Bill was reassigned yesterday to Executive Committee?"

"Are there any objections? Leave is granted and it'll be so noted."

"Alright, Mr. Speaker, Representative Kane was correct with a couple of Bills. Under House Bill 1180 we ought to also include..."

"We've covered that, Representative."

"Did we cover..."

"Alright, read them into the record."

"Did we cover 1621?"

"Read them all under that Motion on 1180. Read all those numbers, Representative. We'll put it in the record."

"Some will be repititous but 594, 1180, 1302, 1504, 1535, 1621, and 1653."

"Representative McClain."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"Yes. He indicates he will."

"Mr. Telcser, what's your pleasure as Majority Leader of 40  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 the House to Hembers that have had Bills in the Legislative Reference Bureau filed there prior to March 15 that they either have not received yet or are now still receiving and have not been assigned to Committee?"

"Representative, my Motion does not address itself to Bills in the Reference Bureau."

"No disrespect to the ones that you are addressing yourself to. There are Members on this House floor that, according to the rules, have placed their Bills in the Legislative Reference Bureau prior to March 15 and still have not received those Bills."

"I think once those Bills are filed and we have the numbers, then we could handle it, but right now they don't even have numbers assigned to them for us to make a Motion."

"Well, my inquiry is..."

"Nor do we know what Committees they're going to be referred to."

"It won't make any difference after May 4, will it?"

"Well, then that's another reason for not having to handle it now. I wouldn't know how to put a Motion at this time..."

"I asked you what your intention was as Majority Leader."

"My intention is to..."

"For those Members."

"My intention is to meet the question when the Bills are filed with numbers and referred to Committees. I don't know how else to handle it right now."

"Representative McGrew."

"Thank you, very much, Mr. Speaker. I, like Representative McClain, would like to and in fact I had my light on to object to the Motion before. It seems to me 41  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 that if we're going to have fairness we are going to have to do all or we're going to have to do none. I have two Bills that I requested the Legislative Bureau on January the 27. January the 27th. One Bill was finally introduced as 1719. The other one I haven't even gotten yet, Sir, and I submit to you that, you know, if we're going to do it for one let's do it for all or let's not do it for any. I object to the leave too, Mr. Speaker."

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, I also want to add some Bills which appear under House Bill 786. That would be 786, 1246, 1260, 1261, 1262, 1268, 1391, 1689, 1690. Additionally, under House Bill 1648 appears House Bill 1648, 1660, 1665, 1671, and 1683."

"Alright. You heard the Gentleman's Motion. Representative Braun."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is a very serious matter and I think, from the drone, that maybe some of the Membership is not paying attention. There are a number of people on the floor who timely took their Bills down to the LRB who got them back only very recently who have filed them, filed the Bills and found they couldn't be posted or alternatively could not be heard. Now, I have, in my own incident there were a Bill that was posted but can't be heard because the Committee already has 50 Bills and the Chairman, rightfully so, doesn't want to kill himself or his Committee Membership. But at the same time, there are a number of Members that have Bills that are caught in this kind of procedural 'conundrum' and I fear..."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, the Lady from Cook is objecting to some part of the procedure. It was simply our intention to 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 accomodate Members so they can hear their Bills. Mr. Speaker, I withdraw my motion. Mr. Speaker, I move we stand adjourned to tomorrow 12:00 noon."

"You heard the Gentleman's Motion. Representative Bradley."

"Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, there's one way we can clear up this problem that we seen to have as to getting Bills heard and getting them assigned and getting them out of the Reference Bureau and that would be to suspend rules. So, I'd like to make a Motion, Mr. Speaker, that we suspend the deadline for one week from this Friday till a week from Friday..."

"You weren't recognized for that purpose, Representative Bradley. Representative Davis, for what Representative Telcser. purpose do you seek recognition?"

"An announcement, Mr. Speaker. The Subcommittee on General Government which is recessed to the call of the Chair for 6:30 tonight in room 122 B will be postponed until Friday morning at 8:00. All of the commission Bills for those of you who had commission Bills are yet to be heard in that Subcommittee. The meeting is cancelled for tonight. It will be reassigned Friday morning at 8:00 in the same place."

"Representative Leinenweber."

"This is in the form of an announcement, I guess. The Chairman of the Energy and Environment Committee indicated that at 6:00 p.m. tonight his Committee would meet at room 118. They claim that there was an error in the Calendar. He may have misspoken if he said that. It is my understanding that Judiciary I will meet in room 118 and Environment and Energy will meet in room 114. Just so to clarify that matter." 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Pullen."

"МГ. Speaker, I would like to make a Motion which is on the Calendar in my name if that is in order, Sir."

"Proceed, Representative Pullen."

"Thank you. I'd move to suspend Rule 18K to suspend the posting requirements So the Executive Committee may hear House Bill 594, 1180, 1302, 1504, 1535, 1621, and 1653 which are set forth on page 17 of the Calendar."

"You heard the Lady's Motion. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. It takes 107 votes. Have all voted who wish? Gentleman from Cook, Representative Madigan."

"Mr. Speaker, I have not voted for the Lady's Motion because Mr. Telcser had offered a Motion which included this particular Bill..."

"Representative Telcser withdrew his Motion, Representative."

"I understand that. That's the point I was getting to."

"Based on the objection of some of the Members."

"Of one Member. He withdrew the Motion. So now we're moving ahead with this one particular Bill. Mr. Speaker..."

"Representative, I don't know any other way to do this unless we take these one at a time. We tried to solve the problem by taking them all together."

"Mr. Speaker, let me make a suggestion to you."

"Certainly."

"We will be in Session tomorrow and that between now and Session tomorrow you give very serious consideration to a one week postponement of the Committee deadline, Mr. Speaker. That's been done in the past. It can be done again. All it means is that every Member will have an opportunity to have a Committee hearing on his or her 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSENBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 particular Bill in a reason fashion rather than in the pandamonium that exists right now. So between now and tomorrow, Mr. Speaker, I would suggest you give that some serious consideration."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, let me first introduce Mr. George 'Burdit', a former Member of the House is on the floor. He's the President of the Chicago Bar Association, a sincere but sometimes misguided group."

"Have all voted who wish? Take the record. On this issue there 107 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', and 4 voting 'present', and the Lady's Motion passes.

Representative Pullen.' Pullen: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have an inquiry of the Chair, please."

"Proceed."

"As Chief Sponsor of a Bill, I wish to remove a Cosponsor who refuses to remove himself and I am wondering whether you could tell me whether I have any recourse under the rules."

"I believe there's some forms you can fill out down here at the Clerk's desk, Representative."

"Mr. Speaker, it's my understanding that the Cosponsor himself has to sign that form and Mr. Rigney has refused to do that."

"Well, the Gentleman's not on the floor so if you'll hold that request."

"Thank you."

"Representative Schuneman."

"Yes, an announcement, Mr. Speaker. The House Labor and Commerce Committee will be meeting on the House floor immediately after adjournment. The Committee Members and those witnesses who are going to be testifying on the Bills 45  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 will be admitted to the House chamber. The spectators will be in the gallery. There will be witness slips at the House door, Mr. Speaker, for any witnesses who are interested in registering for appearance before the Committee."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative O'Connell."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I apologize for taking the time of the Body. Mr. Speaker, I have a Motion on the Calendar regarding House Bill 1674. I would request that that Motion be heard and amend the Motion on its face to read in lieu of the Committee of Health and Family Services that it should read 'The Executive Committee'. I request that that Motion be heard."

"Gentleman's asked for leave to amend his Motion to read 'Executive Committee' in place of 'Health and Family Service Committee' on House Bill 1674. Are there objections? Do you object, Representative McGrew?"

"Mr. Speaker, I've had my light on ever since you had the Roll Call on..."

"Mr. McGrew, I might add that there are 35 lights on up here so if you'll proceed, I'll hear what you have to say."

"Well, I was requesting a verification on that Roll Call until such time that we got a clear picture whether we're taking all of them or none of them."

"That's not timely right now, Representative. That Roll Call is passed and gone and you're request is not timely. Representative O'Connell has asked leave to have his Motion amended on its face. Are there objections? Hearing none, leave is granted and the Motion ... and the Motion will be amended on its face. Representative O'Connell now moves that a Motion on House Bill 1674... Is 46  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 that right, Representative?"

"That's right, Mr. Speaker."

"All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 133 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', and 2 voting 'present' and the Gentleman's Motion prevails. Gentleman from Knox, Representative McMaster."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a Motion filed on page 17 to... pursuant to Rule 18K. I move to suspend the posting requirements so the Committee on Counties and Townships may hear House Bill 1648, 1660, 1665, 1671, and 1683."

"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye'. Representative Kane."

"Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will."

"Are all of these Bills printed and available?"

"To my knowledge they are because they are in the Digest book, Doug."

"Thank you."

"Representative Madigan."

"Is it your plan to call the Motions on the Calendar? Page 16 and 17?"

"It is my plan to do what, Representative?"

"Do you plan to call of the Motions that have been placed on the Calendar to suspend the posting requirements? If you do, do you plan to recognize Democratic Sponsors?"

"I just finished with a Democrat Sponsor."

"Now you're on your second Republican."

"Previous to this one... I'll be back over on your side of the aisle in just a minute, Mr. Madigan."

"Very good. Very equitable. Thank you." 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981.

"Thank you. You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 126 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', and 3 voting 'present' and the Gentleman's Motion prevails. Gentleman from Cook, Representative DiPrima."

"Yes, Sir, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to give a final reminder about tonights legislative dinner given by the Veterans of Foreign Wars over at the Springfield Hilton. Cocktails will be served at 6:00 and dinner at 7:00. I know a lot of you have meetings to go to but I hope those of you that are available will show up for the dinner. Thank you every so much."

"Is that with or without uniforms, Representative?"

"Just wear your hats."

"Thank you. The Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Schraeder."

"Mr. Speaker, I had a Bill about six miles back that you left me with so it's too late now I understand. But I wanted to raise an objection to 1180."

"That's not timely, Representative. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative O'Brien."

"Mr. Speaker, I don't know whether or not Representative Pullen mentioned a couple of Bills that I have in the Executive Committee to be exempt from the posting, but when I talked with her yesterday they inadvertently did not post them and they are House Bills 765, House Bill 1325, and House Bill 1597. If it's in order, I'd like to move to suspend the rules...the posting rules so that those Bills could be heard."

"Since this is not filed and on the Calendar, Representative, it will take unanimous consent. Are there 48  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981 objections? Representative Kane. Representative Kane."

"Objection."

"Representative Kane objects to your... You'll have to file a Motion, Representative, and put it on the Calendar. Representative McAuliffe, do you seek recognition?"

"Yes. Mr. Speaker, I move to have the posting rules suspended to have heard in Committee today, Veterans Personnel and Pension, House Bill 786, 1246, 1221, 1384, 1261, 1262, 1268, 1391, 1689, and 1690. None of these Bills are mine, by the way. I'm doing for the other Members."

"You heard the Gentleman's Motion. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. It takes 107 votes. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 128 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', and 4 voting 'present' and the Gentleman's Motion prevails. The Lady from Cook, Representative Balanoff."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On page 15 of the Calendar appears House Bill 208 and pursuant to Rule 18K, I move to suspend the posting requirements and request that the Committee on Labor and Commerce may hear this Bill."

"You've heard the Lady's Motion. All in favor will ... Dump the Roll Call, Mr. Clerk. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? This requires 107 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record. Poll of the absentees, Representative? Representative Balanoff."

"No, I do not."

"On this issue there are 92 voting ... Representative Wolf. On this issue there are 92 voting 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 'aye', 36 voting 'no' and 15 voting 'present'. Representative Alexander, do you seek recognition on this issue?"

"No..."

"This Motion is failed, Representative Balanoff. Repesentative Hannig."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two Motions on the Calendar on page 16. House Bill 650 and House Bill 798 if it would be appropriate, I'd ask for one Roll Call to suspend the posting rule for both of those Bills to be heard in the Transportation Committee. They were inadvertently not posted and the Chairman of the Committee, Representative Neff, is in favor of this Motion."

"Gentleman asks leave to have House Bill 650 and House Bill 798 under the Order of Motions called with one Roll Call. Are there objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. The Gentleman moves House Bill 650 and House Bill 780. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye' and all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 113 voting 'aye', 4 voting 'no' and 7 voting 'present' and the Gentleman's Motion prevails. Is there anybody else that wants their Motion on suspension or posting rules called? Representative Alexander."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two matters on page 16. House Bill 576 and 577. I'd like to have them heard jointly if possible, and I move to suspend the posting requirements in Rule 18..."

"Lady asks to hear, under the Order of Motions, House Bill 576 and 577 heard on one Roll Call. Are there objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. Now your Motion, Representative."

"Mr. Speaker, I move in 576 and 577 that Rule 18K be 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 suspended regarding to the requirements in Rule 18 so that Judiciary II may hear these Bills."

"You've heard the Lady's Motion. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Requires 107 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 113 voting 'aye', 4 voting 'no', 7 voting 'present' and the Lady's Motion prevails. Representative McAuliffe."

"Mr. Speaker, I inadvertently left two Bills off that I wanted to have posted for today, 1763 and 1764. I move to suspend the appropriate Rule so that the Bills can be heard in Committee today."

"Is that on the Calendar? You have to have unanimous consent to do that, Representative. What are the numbers?'

"I'm asking for unanimous consent."

"What's the numbers?"

"1763, 1764. Have to do with the General Assembly Retirement System."

"The Gentleman asks to suspend the appropriate rules to have House Bills 1763 and 1764 heard in the Pensions Committee. Are there objections? Representative Braun. Representative Sandquist."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. I started this some time ago. I had... This is on House Bill 1314. It's another Bill that was reassigned to my Committee that was not posted and I have a Motion on file. I'd like leave so it can be heard today. Good Sponsor. Representative Peters's the Sponsor."

"You'd like to move that pursuant to Rule 18K to suspend the posting requirements?"

"Right." 51  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981

"So that House Bill 1314 can be heard in the Committee on Registration and Regulation?"

"Today. Right."

"You heard the Motion. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 115 voting 'aye', 3 voting 'no', and 2 voting 'present' and the Gentleman's Motion prevails. Representative Macdonald."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Inadvertently, House Bill 786 was not posted though it was assigned on April 1st to Representative McAuliffe's Committee on Personnel, Pensions, and Veteran's Affairs. I would like to suspend the appropriate rule to have that Bill put on the Calendar, Second Reading, First Legislative Day."

"Representative, is this the suspension of the rules for posting?"

"Beg your pardon?"

"Is this the suspension of the rules for posting?"

"Well, Representative McAuliffe has also made a Motion beneath that on the same Bill so..."

"Well, that... No, your Motion is to discharge the Committee, Representative."

"Did..."

"Representative, House Bill 786 was included in Representative McAuliffe's Motion and the suspension of the posting rules have already taken place."

"I see. Thank you."

"Are there any other Motions regarding the posting rules? Representative O'Brien."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I spoke with Representative Pullen and the Clerk and it appears that if we file the Motion it would be untimely since the Executive Committee meets 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day tomorrow. April 29,1981 There was only one individual that objected and I don't believe that that individual will object this time. We'd like to have the rules suspended and have House Bill 765, 1325, 1597, of which I am the Sponsor, and Representative Brummer's Bill, House Bill 1393 exempt from the rules so that they can be heard tomorrow morning in Executive."

"Would you hold that Motion for just a moment, Representative?'

"Yes."

"Gentleman from DeWitt, Representative Vinson, for what purpose do you arise?"

"Well, what's the story on that last Motion?"

"We're holding it right now, Representative."

"Okay."

"Let me get back to Representative O'Brien in just a minute on it. Gentleman from Cook, Huskey, do you seek recognition?"

"... for time. Representative I have a Motion filed at the proper time." I would move

"Proceed, Representative."

"Okay. It's a Notion on House Bill 1369. that the posting... the necessary posting rules be altered so this Bill could be posted in Committee for hearing tomorrow."

"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. All opposed by voting 'no'. 107. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Hr. Clerk. On this issue there are 119 voting 'aye', 6 voting 'no' and 2 voting 'present' and the Gentleman's Motion prevails. Representative O'Brien, did you wish to state a Motion?"

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to amend that Motion that I 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 made which included..."

"Representative, why don't you withdraw the first Motion and start over."

"Fine. I'll withdraw the first Motion and ask the rules be suspended in relation to posting Bills in Executive the following Bills: House Bill 765, House Bill 1325, House Bill 1597, House Bill 1393, House Bill 1661, House Bill 1789, House Bill 1763, House Bill 1764, House Bill 1789 and 1790. All in Executive."

"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion."

"No, they are Sponsored by Representatives Brummer, McAuliffe, O'Brien, etcetera. It escapes me at this time."

"Are there objections? Hearing none, leave is granted."

"Thank you, Mr. Chairman (sic)."

"Now, Representative O'Brien, we have to do your Motion. Leave is granted to hear the Motion. You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all oppose by voting 'no'. 107. Representative O'Brien, it's the Chair's understanding that all of these Bills on this Motion are not in the... are not going to the Committee on Executive. Is that right?"

"No, there are two Bills that are going into Pensions. 1763 and 1764."

"Thank you. That clarified it for the Chair. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 122 voting 'aye, 4 voting 'no', and 3 voting 'present and the Gentleman's Motion prevails. Has anybody else got a Motion they want to call on the posting? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Conti."

"ΜΕ. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I move for the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions that were read a half hour ago." 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day

"Gentleman April 29,1981 moves the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. All in favor will signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Agreed Resolutions are adopted. what purpose do you arise?" Representative Schraeder, for

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, I've got two Motions on the Clerk's desk and posting notice on some Bills. I'd like to move the Motion that 1633..."

"Is that on posting, Representative?"

"Yes."

"You'll have to have unanimous consent to do that. I'd be glad to call that for you if you'd like. What are the numbers?"

"1633, 1634, 1635, 1637 in Pension. And 148, 1352 in Exec."

"What was the last two numbers? What were those?"

"148 and 1352."

"And where do you want those?"

"Those go to Exec.

"Gentleman... That's where they are." the Gentleman's asked leave to suspend the appropriate rules to have House Bill 1633, 1634, 1635 and 1637 heard in Pensions and House Bills 148 and 1352 heard in Exec. Are there objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. Now, would you like to move that these Bills be heard, Representative? The Gentleman SO moves. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Requires 107 voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? votes. Have all Take the record, ... Nr. Clerk. On this issue there are 119 voting 'aye', 120 voting 'aye', 5 voting 'no' and 2 voting 'present' and the Gentleman's Motion Representative Deuchler." prevails. The Lady from Kane,

"Mr. Speaker, leave to suspend the rules to hear 1754, 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day 1815, and 1830." April 29,1981

"Would you read the numbers again, please? Do you have a Motion filed?"

"1754 to Executive. 1815, Public Institution. 1830 to Financial Institutions."

"You need unanimous consent for this. Does the Lady from Kane have unanimous consent? Are there any objections to the Lady's Motion? Representative McGrew, do you object?"

"Just a parliamentary inquiry. Is that the proper Motion? They're on Committee Assignments and not in the other Committees. I think she made the Motion that way."

"I didn't understand you, Representative."

"The question is, is that the proper Motion as they're all in Committee on Assignment right now instead of in their respective Committee to which she eluded?"

"Yes, they've all been assigned, Representative. She's asking leave to have this Motion heard SO she can suspend the posting rules. Are there objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. The Lady from Kane now noves that House Bill 1754, the posting rules on House Bill 1754, 1815, and 1830 be suspended So they can go to the appropriate Committee. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Requires 107 votes. Representative Bradley."

"... for the purpose of a Motion wjem it's proper."

"Would you hold it till we finish this one, please? Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 117 voting 'aye', and 1 voting 'no' and 1 voting 'present' and the Lady's Motion prevails. Now, Mr. Bradley."

"Ar. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I would like to make the same Motion relevant to House Bill 56  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day 1880. April 29,1981 It's been in the Assignment Committee and I would like to move that it be taken from that Committee and assigned to the proper Committee so that we can hear it tomorrow. Same Motion the Lady just made regarding 1880."

"Well, her Bills had been... those Bills had been assigned to Committee. She just suspended the posting rules for those Bills, Representative. I'm checking to see if 1880 has been assigned to Committee yet. Representative Bradley, would you hold your Motion and come to the podium, please? Representative Koehler."

"r. Speaker, I would like to move to suspend the posting requirements in Rule 18 in relation to the following Committee and that would be 1807 and 253."

"Are those Motions on the Calendar, Representative?"

"Yes, they are."

"1807 and what was the other one?"

"253."

"25..."

"One is and one isn't. 253 is not, but 1807 is. 1807 is not on the Calendar either."

"Neither one are on the Calendar, Representative. You need unanimous consent to have a Motion called here. The Lady asks for leave to have House Bills 1807 and 253, the appropriate rule suspended so she can call her Hotion. Are there objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. The Lady now moves to suspend the appropriate rules to have House Bill 1807 and 253 heard in the appropriate Committee. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. Clerk. On this issue there are 121 voting 'aye', 2 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. Representative Schuneman, for what purpose do you arise?" 57  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day

"Point of order, Mr. Speaker. April 29,1981 The problem that we're in in this Legislature is that we don't have enough time to conduct Committee meetings to hear all these Bills and for the last hour we've been busy putting more Bills in the Committee, and we're cutting into the Committee time and I think we ought to get on with the Adjournment Resolution, Mr. Speaker."

"Your point's well taken, Representative. We'll do that just as quick as we can. Previous Motion prevails. Now, Representative Bradley, do you have a Motion?"

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. 1880 has been assigned to the Executive Committee and I would move that we suspend the appropriate rule so that the Bill could be heard in the Committee tomorrow and I ask unanimous consent first."

"You've heard the Gentleman's request for unanimous consent. Are there objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. Now, Representative Bradley, you move to suspend the appropriate rules for House Bill 1880. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Representative Daniels, for what purpose do you rise?"

"Maybe we could have a short explanation of the Bill."

"Have all voted who wish? Representative Bradley, would you give a short explanation of the Bill?'

"Yes, what the Bill does. It intends to give the same rights and privileges to the Taiwan government that they had prior to 1979."

"Have all voted who wish?"

"It should have gone to our Foreign Affairs Committee but we don't have one."

"Representative Pullen, do you seek recognition?"

"At the appropriate time, Mr. Speaker, I do. Thank you."

"Have all voted who wish? 107 votes required on this. Have all voted who wish? Take the record, Mr. 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day Clerk. Representative Oblinger." April 29,1981

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I am asking for suspension of the post..."

"That's not timely right now, Representative. Hold on just a minute. On this issue there are 109 voting 'aye', 9 voting 'no', 10 voting 'present'. The Gentleman's Motion prevails. Representative Madigan, do you seek recognition? Representative Barkhausen."

"Mr. Speaker, I would ask that Rule 18K be suspended so that a hearing may be had on House Bills 1819, 1820, and 1821 in the Transportation Committee. I would ask for a favorable Roll Call on.."

"What was the Bill number, Representative?"

"There are three Bills, Mr. Speaker."

"Are they on the Calendar?"

"They are not."

"You've got to have unanimous consent, Representative. What are the numbers?"

"1819, 1820, and 1821. A Motion was just filed today."

"Representative Matijevich."

"Mr. Speaker, I'm voting for everybody on these and I want to help Dave, he's my colleague. But I just went over to Phil Collins and I had House Bill 1725 and it hasn't been assigned yet. And he said, 'Well, we'll get that today. We're up to about 1700.' Now I see this is about 1819. He had 1800 something. Why couldn't you assign mine, Phil? I'm 1725 and these are 1800 something. All I want is fairness. You just told me, 'We'll get to yours later today'. Later today, that's too late."

"Do you object to the Gentleman' Motion, Representative?"

"No, I'm not going to hurt anybody, but I want to 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29,1981 know why I'm hurt. I'd like Phil to explain that. You know, he's assigning others for other people. Why couldn't you do it for me? I helped you in Committee today, didn't I Phil?"

"Representative, we have a Motion on the floor now. We'll call that Notion and if you'd like to talk to Representative Collins after the Motion, we'll be glad to arrange that for you. The Gentleman's asked leave to have House Bills 1898 (sic), 1820, and 1821 heard... have a Motion heard to suspend the posting rules. Are there objections? Representative Satterthwaite, do you object?"

"I just want to be recognized."

"Hearing none, leave is granted. The Gentleman now moves to suspend the appropriate posting rules to hear House Bill 1819, 1820 and 1821. All in favor will signify by voting 'aye', all opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? On this issue there are 122 voting 'aye', 2 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. The Gentleman's Motion prevails. Representative Satterthwaite."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I ask unanimous consent on behalf of House Bill 1767, 1768, and 1853 to have them posted for Committee. I do not know whether they have yet been assigned."

"Are they on the Calendar? Any Motions on the Calendar? You asked unanimous consent. Are there objections? Do you object, Representative Dunn? Do you object, Representative Mulcahey? Do you seek recognition? Are there objections? Representative Kelly. Representative Telcser."

"Mr. Speaker, as I understand it, these Bills have not even been assigned. Do you want to take Motions on Bills that haven't been assigned?" 60  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day

"Representative Kelley, do you

"Mr. Speaker."

"Representative Kelley."

"I object." April 29,1981 seek recognition?"

Speaker Ryan: "Representative Kelley... Representative Satterthwaite, Representative Kelley has objected to your unanimous consent."

"Mr. Speaker, I do not know whether the Bills have as yet been assigned to Committee. I have not gotten notification. If the objection is on the basis of them not being assigned, I would be happy to have them referred to Public Institutions and Social Services."

"He objects to your having leave to do that, Representative. Representative Oblinger." Oblinger: : "Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I've never done this before, but I was in the hospital and couldn't ask for these to be sent. That's why I'm asking for unanimous consent on 1739, 1740, and 1844."

"1739. What's the other number?"

"1740 and 1844. They have been assigned to Committee."

"Are your Motions on the Calendar, No, they're not."

"They're here." Representative?

"Representative Madigan." Madigan: #ㄷ. Speaker, I object to the request. Mr. Speaker, becoming obvious to you that we need a isn't it suspension..."

"Did you rise to object, Representative Madigan?"

"I rose to speak to you, Mr. Speaker. If you don't wish to listen to me you could rely upon your own tactic of turning off the microphone. But isn't it becoming apparent to you because it's becoming apparent to everyone out here that the time has arrived for serious consideration to 61  30th Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE April 29,1981. postpone the deadlines. You are standing there accepting Motions to suspend rules when the Bills haven't even been assigned from the Committee on Assignment to the regular standing Committee. We're preciding over chaos and the time has come to provide a little more time for Committee consideration."

"Representative Madigan, you can't have it both ways. I've tried to be fair and call on Members on both sides of the aisle. In the past, you've accused me of shutting them off and I'm trying to let the process proceed in an orderly fashion, but if you object to the Lady's Motion, so be it. Representative Telcser."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, I think it's about time that the Minority Leader did pay attention to the rules and to the orderly procedure of this Assembly. We've been trying to do it for some four months only to meet with other types of priorities on the part of the Gentleman from Cook. Mr. Speaker, I also want to remind the Minority Leader and other Members that about an hour ago I stood up to make all these Motions for many Bills all at once in order to save time and to give Members an opportunity to have their Bills heard. Some Members objected. I, therefore; withdrew my Motion and that's really why we are where we're at. Mr. Speaker, I don't know if there's anything else you wish to do today. If not, are you ready for a Motion?"

"Representative Conti."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, yes I've heard both sides of the aisle got fair recognition today. I've got a Member sitting next to me who's had they're light on way before Agreed Resolutions on it. I think if we'd heard some of these Resolutions and if the Minority Leader's so concerned about it. The RTA condensed this Session last week and if we'd adopted the rules that we have, we wouldn't have been in 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day the trouble and the chaos that we have today." April 29,1981

"Gentleman from Cook, Representative Collins."

"Mr. Speaker, I move we adjourn till 12:00, April 30."

"Gentleman moves we adjourn till 12:00 noon on April the 30th. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', all opposed 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the House now stands adjourned with five minute Perfunctary for the Clerk."

"Committee Reports. Representative Stearney, Chairman of the Commitee on Judiciary II to which the following Bills were referred, action taken April 28, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass House Bills 542, 572, 748, 995, 996, and 999. Do not pass House Bill 182. Do not pass as amended House Bill 938.' Representative Wikoff, Chairman of the Committee on Cities and Villages to which the following Bills were referred, action taken April 28, 1981 and reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass House Bills 670, 886, 961, 1075, 1224, 1322, 1371, 1398, and 1608. Do not pass House Bills 553, 770, and 1612. Do pass as amended House Bill 369. Do pass Consent Calendar House Bill 1356, and 1377. Do pass as amended Consent Calendar House Bill 411. Interim Study Calendar, House Bills 78 and 1062.' Introduction and First Reading of Bills. House Bill 1876, Tuerk, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1877, Ebbesen-Mautino, a Bill for an Act to amend the Regional Transportation Authority Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1778 (sic), Ebbesen-Mautino, a Bill for an Act in relation to establishment of funding of a special highway construction program. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1879, Ebbesen-Nautino, a Bill for an Act to amend the Regional Transportation Authority Act. First Reading of the Bill. 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 82ND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 30th Legislative Day April 29, 1981 House Bill 1880, Bradley, a Bill for an Act providing for the unofficial Taiwan office in Illinois. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1881, Margaret Smith, a Bill for an Act to amend the Minimum Wage Law. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1882, Barkhausen, a Bill for an Act to provide for the protection of the wet land areas of the state prescribing permission be given for modification of regulated wet lands. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 1883, Barkhausen, a Bill for an Act in relation to Natural Heritage Stream Act. First Reading of the Bill."

"There being no further business, the House now stands adjourned until tomorrow at 12:00 noon." 64