Illinois House Floor Debate — November 19, 1986

"The hour of 11:00 having arrived, the House will be in Session. The Chaplain for today will be Father Frank O'Hara, Pastor of St. Peter and Paul Catholic Church of Springfield. Father O'Hara is a guest of Representative Michael Curran. Will the guests in the gallery please rise with us for the invocation? Father O'Hara."

"In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Dear God, fill us with Your divine love so that with Your love in us we may hear the cry of our poor, so that we might see the needs of our sick, so that we might bring hope to our lonely, peace to the minds of our abandoned and justice to all. Oh God, once You spoke to man upon the mountains and in the plain. Help us to listen, listen now as then and ponder on Your words again. In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

"The Gentleman from McLean, Mr. Ropp, will lead us in the pledge to the flag."

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Mr. Piel, are there any excused absences on the Republican side? Mr. Piel."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. Would the record show Representative Davis is excused today?"

"Let the record so reflect. Mr. Matijevich, are there any excused absences on the Democratic side?"

"Mr. Speaker, there are none."

"Thank you. Mr. Clerk, take the record. 113 Members having answered to the Call of the Quorum, a quorum is present. Mr. Matijevich, what purpose do you seek 1  143rd Legislative Day recognition?" STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986

"Mr. Speaker, I am now informed that Representative Doug Huff is an excused absence."

"Alright, let the record reflect that Representative Huff is excused this morning. Message from the Senate."

"A Message from the Senate by Mr. Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has refused to concur with the House in the adoption of their Amendment to the following Bill, to wit; Senate Bill #1164, House Amendment #1, action taken by the Senate November 18, 1986. Kenneth Wright, Secretary."

"General Resolutions."

"House Joint Resolution 242, offered by Speaker Madigan - et al."

"Committee on Assignment. Yes, Mr... the Gentleman from Marion, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"An inquiry of the Chair. Mr. Speaker, I assume the Rules Committee, which was to have met at 4:00 yesterday was recessed meeting. Has there been any plans to have the meeting recalled?"

"I don't know that. I'll have the Chairman..."

"I'd appreciate it if you would let us know because that's important to us."

"Absolutely. Sure, absolutely. For what purpose does the Gentleman from Livingston, Mr. Ewing, seek recognition?"

"Mr. Speaker, to follow up a little bit with Representative Friedrich's question on the Rules Committee, there are several Bills listed on the Governor's call for the Special Session. Now, will those Bills be heard in 2  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 Rules or what is the Chair's ruling on that? Will they be sent directly to the Committee on Assignment?"

"Yes, ah, yes. That's probably an appropriate inquiry when we get into the Special Session, but whatever we... however we handle it, we'd follow it in accordance with the rules."

"Pardon? I didn't hear your response."

"Whatever the ruling would be in the Third Special Session when we are there, it will be in accordance with the rules, whatever the rules provide."

"Well, I'm sure it will be, but we will get that ruling today then when we get to the..."

"I think it would be appropriate to raise in the Third Special Session."

"Thank you very much."

"Agreed Resolutions."

"House Resolution 1671, offered by Representative W. Peterson. 1675, offered by Representative Ronan. 1679, offered by Representative Krska. And House Joint Resolution 243, offered by Representative Mays and Curran."

"Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich, on the Agreed Resolutions."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, these are of a congratulatory nature and I move the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions."

"The Gentleman from Lake moves for the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. Those in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no'. Opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes have it and the Agreed Resolutions are adopted. Death Resolutions."

"House Resolution 1672, offered by Representative Brookins, with respect to the memory of Albert Johnson, Sr. House Resolution 1673, offered by Representative Johnson, with respect to the memory of Donald E. Moyer, Sr. House 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 Resolution 1674, offered by Representative Johnson, with respect to the memory of Irving Reiner. House Resolution 1676, offered by Representative Shaw, with respect to the memory of Mildred Rita Carringer Jackson. House Resolution 1677, offered by Representative Johnson, with respect to the memory of Mrs. Bessie Lewis Bowman. House Resolution 1678, offered by Representative Shaw, with respect to the memory of Sherry Williams."

"Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich, on the Death Resolutions."

"Mr. Speaker, I move the adoption of the Death Resolutions."

"Gentleman From Lake moves for the adoption of the Death Resolutions. Those in favor say "aye", opposed 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The Resolutions are adopted. Alright... Ladies and Gentlemen, we are going to move now to the Order of Amendatory Veto Motions on page 16. We will call the Bill and we will call the Motions to accept and the Motions to override as well this morning. This is page 16, page 16 of your Calendar and on that Order appears House Bill 787, Mr. Ronan. Out of the record. On the Order of Amendatory Veto Motions appears a Motion by Representative Leverenz for House Bill 787. Mr. Leverenz. Out of the record. On the Order of Amendatory Veto Motions appears House Bill 913. Mr. McCracken. Is Mr. McCracken in the chamber? Out of the record. On the Order of Amendatory Veto Motions appears House Bill 1130. Mr. Keane. Alright. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

""I move to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor to House Bill 1130 in the manner and form as follows.."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane." 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. amendatorily November 19, 1986 On House Bill 1130, the Governor vetoed a part of that Bill which specifically required the used car tax involving trade between individuals to have the information submitted together. The Secretary of State thought there would be difficulty with it and the Governor asked that Revenue and the Secretary of State... the Department of Revenue and the Secretary of State work this out. I accept that language. I think it's an improvement in the Bill and I also... the Governor also recommended a January 1, 87 effective date and I approve of that also. And I would ask that the Governor's... I move that we accept the Governor's amendatorily veto on House Bill 1130."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane, moves that the House accept the Governor's amendatory veto with respect to House Bill 1130, and on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton."

"Yes, would the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Indicates he will."

"Representative Keane, what then is left of the Bill in that how it relates to the private sale of... between vehicles of used cars? In other words, what does the Bill do to... after the amendatory veto to change the procedure?"

"Mr. Keane."

"Thank you. When two parties trade, only the person that is liable for the tax on the trade has to file with the Secretary of State."

"So, in other words, if I own a car and I want to sell it to someone, I put an ad in the paper and decide that we are going to sell the car, the person who is purchasing the car has to pay a sales tax and they have to make... they have to file an affidavit, is it, with the Secretary of 5  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 State's Office?"

"That's correct."

"Certifying what the purchase price was?"

"Yes."

"Okay, and this Bill originally involved the transfer of income tax forms or income tax returns?"

"This is a Bill that has a number of provisions in it. The only one which we are addressing now is the amendatory veto that the Governor made on the... dealing with the private sale of used cars."

"Okay, thank you very much."

"Thank you."

"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall the House accept the specific recommendations for change with respect to House Bill 1130?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open and this is final action. Ms. Currie. This Bill... this requires 71 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 112 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present', and this Motion, having received the required Constitutional Majority, the Motion is adopted and the House accepts the Governor's specific recommendations for change. On the Order of Amendatory Veto Motions appears House Bill 1321. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 1321, 'I move to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor to House Bill 1321 in the manner and form as follows..'"

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Governor's action on House Bill 1321 amended the effective date of the Sub-part F provision of the Bill and to make it effective in Tax Year 6  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 1988, rather than Tax Year 1987. I agree with the Governor's Amendment and would ask for a favorable Roll Call."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane, has moved that the House accept the Governor's specific recommendations for change with respect to this Bill, and on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall the House accept the specific recommendations for change with respect to House Bill 1321?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final action. 71 votes are required. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take... take the record. On this question there are ill voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Motion, having received the required Constitutional Majority, the Motion is adopted and the House accepts the Governor's specific recommendations for change. On the Order of Amendatory Vetoes, on page 17 of the Calendar, appears House Bill 2581. Mr. Preston. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill. No. Mr. Preston. Out of the record. On the Order of Amendatory Vetoes, page 17 of the Calendar, appears House Bill 2621. Mr. Tate, did you wish to proceed? Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 2621, I move to accept the Governor'S specific recommendations of House Bill 2621 in the manner and form as follows."

"Gentleman from Macon, Mr. Tate, on the Motion."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd just move to accept the Governor's amendatory veto. Governor vetoed just some... basically, I think it's just language technicality corrections. Yeah, it was a technical error in the Bill."

"The Gentleman from Macon, Mr. Tate, moves that the House accept the Governor's amendatory veto, and on 7  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton."

"Yes, would the Sponsor yield?"

"Yeah."

"Indicates he'll yield for questions."

"I assume that it was not intentional that I did not hear a word that the Representative said. I assume it was not intentional. I don't think there is anything to hide here in this amendatory veto, but I would ask if the Representative could please repeat his explanation."

"I will repeat it, John. Can you hear a little better now? My microphone occasionally is inadvertently turned down, but what I said is I had moved to accept the amendatory veto of the Bill. The Governor had just corrected some technical language within the Bill."

"Well, would the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Yes, I would."

"What was the technical language that the Governor corrected? Oh, are you going to read... are you going to read it now?"

"Okay, I'll handle it. I'm getting out his message... no, I'm going to get out the message and read what the Governor corrected because I thought the Bill was fairly decent shape when I sent it to him."

"Well, I think we all did, here in the General Assembly. That's why I'm questioning what the Governor did and why we don't just override the Governor's veto."

"Pursuant to Article IV, Section 90 of the Illinois Constitution... okay, here's what he did. On page 1, line 31, he deletes the words, 'by quitclaim deed' and with this specific change, House Bill 2621 will have his approval. You need help, Representative Cullerton?"

"Do you mean... do you mean to tell me that, in your 8  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 opinion, by eliminating the words by..."

"Page 1... page 1, line 31."

"Yes, your... in your opinion, by eliminating the words, by quitclaim deed', that's only a technical change?"

"Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. It was only an easement. If you read the effect of the Bill that passed, essentially what this Bill did was authorize the Department of Conservation to convey an easement of access on a deed for a strip of land in Spitler Woods State Park to the owners of an adjoining residential lot for the sum of one dollar. This, quite frankly, Representative Cullerton, was a concern brought to me by constituents in Representative Dunn's district and I'm sure that he would be in favor of this Bill too. But, however, you might want to refer your... some of your questions to Representative Dunn on this."

"Well, you're the Sponsor of the Bill and you're making the Motion. He passed the Bill and what... when we passed the Bill, we said that this easement would be granted by quitclaim deed. Now, the Governor has removed the words by quitclaim deed and I would like for you to explain to me what a quitclaim deed is."

"I'll tell you what. Since Representative Cullerton would like a legal explanation of that, I will yield that explanation time to Representative McCracken to give him a constitutional ruling on this."

"Mr. McCracken, did you seek recognition at this time?"

"Yes, Mr. Speaker."

"Alright, Mr. McCracken. The Chair recognizes you."

"A quitclaim deed is a deed where the grantor makes no 9  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 warranties as to whether the title is clear from any liens or otherwise clouded."

"Mr. Speaker."

"Yes, Mr. Cullerton."

"Well, then, we have eliminated... the Governor has eliminated the words 'by quitclaim deed', so how are we going to grant this easement to the residents of the land adjoining Spitler Woods State Park for one dollar if we don't do it by quitclaim deed?"

"Mr... Is that directed to Mr. McCracken?"

"Representative Tate."

"Mr. Tate, you are still the..."

"We can do it by other than quitclaim deed."

"He's a ventriloquist. I asked..."

"No, Mr. Tate."

"Did Representative Cullerton get... did you get the appropriate explanation?"

"Mr. Tate, he has propounded another question."

"Well, I was looking at your mouth. Your mouth wasn't moving and some words were coming out..."

"Is that right?"

"So, I did not hear the answer. What was the answer?"

"Well, I was referring to my package of Marlboros right at the time. I'm not sure exactly what Representative Mc... but I'm sure that you are going to be a better lawyer because you know what quitclaim deeds are about now."

"Well, I thought I did before, too, I asked that question, but Representative McCracken... maybe he could answer the question then. How are we going to convey this easement if we don't do it by quitclaim deed?"

"Mr. McCracken, are you seeking recognition?"

"Yes, Sir."

"Proceed, Mr. McCracken." 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"By other than quitclaim deed."

"Do you have some suggestions?"

"It could be a warranty deed. It could be a trustees deed. It could be an easement created by contract and recorded as a lien..."

"Well, Representative McCracken, do you agree with the Governor that it's inappropriate to grant an easement by quitclaim deed?"

"It is not inappropriate, but it is not necessarily a good way to convey an easement."

"So, in other words, you wouldn't object to a Motion to override... totally override this veto?"

"No, no. I think this is a good veto to accept."

"Because it's inappropriate to grant this easement by a quitclaim deed, but it is by a warranty deed? A warranty deed is better..."

"Yes, essentially... essentially what the language does if you don't over... or if you don't accept the veto, is to require that it be by quitclaim deed. Typically, an easement for public use can be by dedication, which would be recorded against the property. It could be done by contract. It could be done by some deed other than a quitclaim deed."

"And it could be done by quitclaim deed, couldn't it?"

"But it doesn't have to be done by a quitclaim deed and a quitclaim deed..."

"Well, if we accept this amendatory veto, we wouldn't... we wouldn't even be able to convey it by quitclaim deed."

"A quitclaim deed is... is the least effective means of creating the easement."

"From the point of view of the... of the person to whom it's being conveyed, correct?" 11  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986

"What they want to do is not give them the property, which would be done by giving a deed or a quitclaim deed. What they want to do is give access, essentially an easement."

"I see. Well, Represent... Mr. Speaker, if I could ask a question of Representative Tate then, not as to the legalities of the deed issue, but rather the substance of the underlying Bill, just what is it that we are doing here for a dollar for these people?"

"Mr. Tate."

"Why couldn't we get more? Like five dollars?"

"Representative Cullerton, hopefully, some day you will have the opportunity to visit the great state park of Spitler Woods. Spitler Woods has a situation where they have a driveway, an access area, that is contiguous to a residential house and what these people are asking for is just to have the easement rights and access to and from on that property."

"I mean, are they landlocked now? They can't get out of their house unless they trespass on state property?"

"That is correct. That is correct. It's just one household and one household only."

"And it's not in your district?"

"Well, the situation exists right now. The driveway has been there for... ever since they built the house, but the... I mean, technically, they have been illegally using that road access."

"And how was the fee negotiated for the easement? Is it a dollar a year? Well, I would think to have the opportunity to get out of your house you could probably pay more than a dollar a year. Do you know how that was negotiated?"

"We like to represent our constituents, John, well and I 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day think..."

"Is this one of your constituents?" November 19, 1986

"No, it's Representative Dunn's constituents."

"Do you know why they came to you to pass the Bill?"

"I really don't know. I think a lawyer representing them came to me."

"Okay, and so how was the... how was the dollar fee negotiated? Who... what department of the state negotiated it?"

"Well, the department is just coming up with their explanation and what they are saying is that..."

"Which department is that?"

"Conservation. Their explanation is, Representative Cullerton, that they can't grant the easement rights without charging something and so they arrived at the dollar fee being the minimum fee that they..."

"As a nominal fee."

"Yeah."

"Okay, thank you very much for answering my questions."

"Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken. Gentleman from Livingston, Mr. Ewing, were you seeking recognition on this issue?"

"I just wanted to move the previous question."

"Well, no one seems to be seeking recognition, so the question is, 'Shall the House accept the specific recommendations for change... did you wish to close, Mr. Tate? Alright, Mr. Tate, to close."

"I just move for the... accept Amendment."

"The question is, 'Shall the House accept the specific recommendation for change with respect to House Bill 2621?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. 71 votes are 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day required. Have all voted who wish? November 19, 1986 Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 112 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting *present', and the Motion, having received the required Constitutional Majority, the Motion is adopted and the House accepts the Governor's specific recommendations change. On the for Order of Amendatory Veto Motions appears House Bill 2648. Mr. Mulcahey, 2648."

"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to withdraw that Motion."

"Alright. The... With leave of the House, the Motion will be withdrawn. On the Order... On Amendatory Veto Motions appears House 3ill 2648. Mr. Saltsman, did you wish to proceed on that, Sir? Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 2648, I move to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to House Bill 2648 in the manner and form as follows."

"Gentleman from Peoria, Mr. Saltsman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This amendatory veto... amendatory veto is agreeable to all the parties that have a concern in it and I ask for its acceptance."

"Gentleman from Peoria, Mr. Saltsman, moves that the House accept the Governor's amendatory veto. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, *Shall the House accept the specific recommendations for change with respect to House Bill 2648?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye", those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final action and 60 votes are required. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 111 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting present'. The Motion, having received the required Constitutional Majority, the Motion is adopted and 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 the House accepts the Governor's specific recommendations for change. On the Order of Amendatory Veto Motions appears House Bill 2757. Mr. Keane, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Yes, could I ask for leave to handle this Motion? I am a Cosponsor on the Bill with Representative Giorgi."

"Sure, you have leave of the House to accept this Motion... to proceed with this Motion. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"I move to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor, as to House Bill 2757, in the manner and form as follows."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Bill, the basic Bill, deals with the model home Bill that Representative Giorgi and Representative Hallock were Cosponsors of and what the Governor did, and it's acceptable to Representative Giorgi, he took a recommendation from the Assessors' Association and basically it says... it just clarifies and I think improves the language. It says, the person liable for taxes on a property eligible for assessment provided in this Section shall file a verified application, so on and so on, "each... for each assessment year in which that assessment is desired.. It puts this category of real estate in the same way we have exempt categories where they have to file an annual report verifying that, in fact, the property is used as it... as it is stipulated and it does fall within the Act. I'd be happy to answer any questions and ask for a favorable Roll Call."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane, moves that the House accept the Governor's amendatory veto, and on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is. 'Shall the House accept the Governor's 15  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 specific recommendations for change with respect to House Bill 27573 All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final action. 71 votes are required. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 108 voting 'aye", 2 voting 'no', none voting 'present', and the Motion, having received the required Constitutional Majority, the Motion is adopted and the House accepts the Governor's specific recommendations for change. On the Or der of Amendatory Veto Motions appears House Bill 2785. Mr. Bowman, proceed. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill... read the Motion."

"House Bill 2785, 'I move to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to House Bill 2785 in the manner and form as follows.

Speaker Greiman "Gentleman from Cook. Mr. Bowman, on the .

Motion. Bowman: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is a perfect example of the Senate messing up a perfectly good House Bill. We sent the underlying Bill to the Senate where one of the Senators decided to amend his own Bill on top of my Bill and did it in such a way that the Governor took exception to the language that he had provided for the Amendment. So, basically, what we... the only issue involved in this amendatory veto Motion is on page one, line 13, to delete the word 'youth' as a modifier of officers. That is to say police officers. That certainly does clarify the situation. We had a debate on the House floor that you may remember as to whether... how inclusive this modifier was. Without the modifier, there should be no controversy in the House. I, myself, am sorry to see this modifier taken out because I would just... I would prefer the narrower interpretation. 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 However, the underlying Bill is a very good one and I do not wish to jeopardize it and; therefore, I move to accept the Governor's amendatory changes."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman, moves that the House accept the Governor's amendatory veto, and on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Will the Sponsor yield for some questions?"

"Indicates that he will."

"The other part of the Bill... or part of the Bill, I should say, relates to time in which to try juvenile cases?"

"That is correct... adjudicatory hearings. Actually, these are not juvenile cases so much as they are placements in foster homes. They are adjudicatory hearings in preparation for taking a child out of the home and placing... making a foster placement."

"Well, but part of the Bill relates to adjudicatory hearings?

"Yes, that's correct."

"Okay, and effective January 1, '88, or up until that date, the 120 day rule is the time within which that must be held, which is current law. Is that right?"

"That is correct."

"And then after that it steps down?"

"That is correct."

"To what time period?"

"Well, that's the underlying Bill and let me... I hadn't expected to answer questions about that so I would have to take a look because that part was not changed. And I should add that it was supported by all parties, including the state's attorneys, so... and the bar associations, so that that was not really an issue initially and that... 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day consequently, my fingertips. November 19, 1986 I don't have that finger at my... figure at I see you looking at the Bill, so maybe you can find it in there."

"Okay, I think I've got an answer here. Let me state it and see if you agree."

"Okay."

"Up until January 1, 1988, the dismissal is without prejudice and after that time the dismissal would be with prejudice for failure to comply with the rule."

"Yes."

"And there are certain provisions in the Bill which told the 120 day time period?"

"That is correct, and the Governor, I might add, did make some changes with respect to those provisions; however, I have been advised by counsel to our Majority Staff that the difference between... the word competency and fitness is merely preferential and there is not a substantive involved in that distinction. issued

"Well, I didn't understand that. What did that have to do with my question? I don't understand."

"Well, you... you raised the... you began to... a line of questioning regarding factors which toll the period and I just wanted to point out so everyone here understood that the Governor, indeed, did make some amendatory changes there in that part the Bill, but they are not substantive, as I understand them. I just wanted to advise everybody that there was this other change. That's all."

"Okay. Thank you. Nothing further." of

"Further discussion? There being none, Mr. Bowman to close. Mr. Bowman."

"Well, I believe we had a full discussion. I move to accept the Governor's amendatory language."

"Alright. Question is, 'Shall the House accept 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 the specific recommendations for change with respect to House Bill 2785?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. 71 votes to pass. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 112 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present', and this Motion, having received the required Constitutional Majority, the Motion is adopted and the House accepts the Governor's specific recommendations for change. On the Order of Amendatory Veto Motions appears House Bill 3340. Out of the record. On the Order of Amendatory Veto Motions appears House Bill 3346. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 3346, 'I move to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to House Bill 3346 in the manner and form as follows..'"

"The Lady from Cook, Ms. Currie."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. House Bill 3346 creates an advisory committee to concern the state with problems of children who have chronic rheumatic diseases. The Governor's only change was to identify the state department as the Department of Public Health rather than Public Aid, which was the original provision in the Bill. I think his suggestion is a good one and I would move that the House accept the Governor's specific recommendations for change in House Bill 3346."

"Yes, the Lady from Cook, Ms. Currie, moves for the adoption of the amendatory veto. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates she will yield for questions."

"Representative Currie, would you agree that this Amendment makes a bad Bill better?" 19  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986

"I would not agree with that. I do think the Governor's Amendment makes sense."

"Okay, thank you."

"Question is, Shall the House accept the specific recommendations for change with respect to House Bill 3346? All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. This is final action. 60 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 111 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Motion, having received the required Constitutional Majority, the Motion is adopted and the House accepts the Governor's specific recommendations for change. On the Order of Amendatory Veto Motions appears House Bill 3394. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 3394, I move to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to House Bill 3394 in the manner and form as follows.."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House Bill 3394 deals with the ability of municipalities to put in liens. What the Governor's Amendment does, I think it improves the Bill. It clarifies it and it basically says that 'no such mortgage lien shall affect the rights of purchasers, mortgagees, judgment creditors or other lien holders'. So, it's a clarifying Amendment. I think it's a... it should be in the Bill and I would ask for a favorable Roll Call."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane, moves that the House accept the Governor's amendatory veto. On that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Levin."

"Would the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"Indicates he will." 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

"Do you know what the position of the various title companies is with respect to this?"

"From my understanding is the people... there was a problem until this Amendment came in and the title companies like this, it's my understanding, because it basically says that this municipal lien in no way affects the bonafide purchasers, mortgagees, judgment creditors or other lien holders."

"Okay, thank you."

"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall the House accept the Governor's specific recommendations for change with respect to House Bill 3394?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. 71 votes required. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are Ill voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. The Motion, having received the required Constitutional Majority, the Motion is adopted and the House accepts the Governor's specific recommendations for change. On the Order of Amendatory Veto Motions appears House Bill 3479. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 3479, 'I move to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to House Bill 3479.'"

"The Gentleman from Coles, Mr. Weaver,"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this Bill is simply a cleanup Bill for DOT which allows release of easements across the state. The Governor's amendatory veto simply cleaned up some language and I move for its acceptance."

"The Gentleman from Coles, Mr. Weaver, moves to accept the Governor's amendatory veto. All... Are there... 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 Is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall the House accept the specific recommendations for change with respect to House Bill 34797" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote "no". Voting is open. This is final action. 71 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk... Mulcahey, 'aye'... Mr. Clerk... Mulcahey, 'aye'. Okay, on this question, there are 110... Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 110 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', none voting 'present'. The Motion, having received the required Constitutional Majority, the Motion is adopted and the House accepts the Governor's specific recommendations for change. On the Order of Amendatory Veto Motions appears House Bill 3543. Mr. Steczo. Out of the record. Alright, okay. Mr. Preston, did you wish to proceed at this time? Alright, still on the Order of Amendatory Veto Motions appears House Bill 2581 on a Motion to override. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 2581, 'I move to accept the specific... I move that the Governor's specific recommendations... I move that the House Bill 2581 'do pass', the Governor's specific recommendations for change notwithstanding...

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker..."

"And on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Preston."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 2581 was the key Bill in the child protection package of legislation this past year. This Bill provided for the video taped testimony of child abuse victims to be played in court as evidence in the trial of the accused sexual abuser. The Governor's veto of the original legislation changed the method in which the video 22  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 tape of the testimony of this child victim was made. Under the original provision, the video tape would be made in advance of trial and then if the defense attorney or the defendant wanted to cross-examine the accused... or excuse me... wanted to cross-examine the child witness, that would be done just as it is today, at the time of trial. The Governor's amendatory veto changed the time at which the cross-examination would 'be made. Under the Governor's provision, cross-examination of the child victim would be made at the time the video tape itself is made. Now, it is the opinion of those of us who have studied this issue very carefully, including the Illinois PTA and other organizations, that the Governor's version is ill-conceived, well-intended but ill-conceived, because the whole purpose of the Bill is to save trauma, when possible, for the child victim and under other state's experience that have this Bill, our version, in about 50 percent of the cases, the child never has to testify because when the defendant sees the tape, the testimony of the child, that defendant ends up pleading guilty۰ That's... Texas has this legislation. That's been their experience. So, if you save, in 50 percent of the cases, the trauma that a child might have to go through in being cross-examined, that's the whole purpose of the Bill. Under the amended version, the child would never be saved that trauma. The child would always be subjected to grueling cross-examination and that would be worse than the present system we have today. So, for those reasons, I would be glad to answer any questions, but I am moving to override the Governor's veto and ask for this Bill to be passed in its original form.

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Preston, moves that the House override the Governor's amendatory veto. 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you. I thought I was a Sponsor of this Bill, but I don't see my name on it... on the original. Maybe I got on a little late."

"You were one of the chief Cosponsors, I believe, Mr. McCracken."

"Well, since then I have come to my senses. The Governor's position is that the trauma is not relieved by a video tape which cannot be used in evidence or at least cannot be used to avoid cross-examination in front of the jury or Judge, whoever the fact finder is. So, to the extent you still... one still has to appear in court, that trauma is still experienced. The... the point of the Governor in raising a constitutional issue, I think, is also not... not unfounded. I think the problem is that the right to cross-examination and confrontation has to be preserved. I understand the Bill's author feels it's preserved by allowing cross-examination at trial, but why not allow cross-examination outside of the presence of the fact finder. outside of the presence of the jury and that way you have preserved confrontation at the same time. You have limited trauma because cross-examination will not be in front of the jury and instead the video tape will be placed. In essence, what this would be is a video tape evidence deposition, which is constitutionally permissible and a vehicle already in use. I would say that if it's a... if it's a question between the veto or nothing, I think we should opt for the veto. I think it's better than nothing and I think that the veto, in fact, improves what was already a good Bill."

"Gentleman from Will, Mr. Regan."

"Mr. Speaker, my electronic equipment here isn't working 24  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 at all. I'd call for an electrician."

"Mr. Regan, I thought you wanted... you were passing or what were you doing?"

"I had a light on. I turned it off. It wouldn't go off. My light indicating my voter light does not come on, so I'm in desperate need of some union help."

"Mr. Preston, to close."

"Thank you. Mr. Speaker. It should be understood, it is not... the decision is the Bill in its original form or nothing. The opinion of those of us - and there are many, many organizations that have looked and lobbied at this Bill, at states that have this provision - we feel absolutely that the amended version of this Bill is worse than the present system and will enhance, not decrease, the trauma to a child. Under the amended version of this Bill, a child will be cross-examined in a small room where, yes, a jury isn't present. The only people present are the accused in a smaller room with fewer people and the child victim. And that is not less traumatic. That is, indeed, more traumatic. The purpose of the Bill is to cut out trauma when you can if you can and you can't do it a hundred percent of the time because of the right of confrontation, the right of cross-examination, but if we can do it 50 percent of the time and allow children who otherwise would be too frightened to testify to come to court and testify so that child abusers are convicted and punished for their crimes, we have done a lot. I'm asking for the override of this veto. We have worked very hard on it and if you believe that it's time to reduce trauma, to encourage children who have been abused to come to court and testify, I am asking for your 'aye vote."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 2581 pass, the specific recommendations for change of the Governor 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 notwithstanding? All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no". Voting is now open. 71 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 60 voting 'aye', 48 voting 'no', 3 voting 'present', and the Hotion has failed to receive the required Three-Fifths Majority and fails. Page 13 of the Calendar, on the Order of Reduction and Item Veto Notions, appears House Bill 2987. Is Ms. Younge in the chamber? Out of the record. On the Order of Reduction and Item Vetoes appears House Bill 2988. Mr. Leverenz, do you wish to proceed? Yes, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 2988, 'I move to restore the following reduced items of appropriation on House Bill 2988.."

"Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz."

"Yes, Mr. Speaker, we'd just like to withdraw that Motion."

"Okay, the Motion is withdrawn. On the Order of Reduction Item Vetoes appears House Bill 2988. Ms. Younge. Not in the chamber. On that Order of Business appears House Bill 2988. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 2988, I move to restore the following reduced items of appropriation to House Bill 2988, the reduction of the Governor notwithstanding. Representative Phelps.""

"Gentleman from Saline, Mr. Phelps. Mr. Phelps."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. We are interested in restoring 220,200 dollars to the Outdoor Highlight magazine that the Governor, I believe, mistakenly vetoed and we feel it would be much simpler at this stage to override the veto rather than go along with his agreement that he would put in the 26  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 supplemental appropriation. This would be much simpler and we'd get this done because the Outdoor Highlight magazine, I think, is recognized throughout the state and probably beyond that for its contributions and service. I'd appreciate your support."

"The Gentleman from Saline, Mr. Phelps, moves that we restore the item on page 11, line 6, and on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken. Mr. McCracken, excuse me. I should advise the House that the appropriate termination of this... terminology is restoration. He are restoring, not overriding and it takes 60 votes to restore a reduced item, but where there has been an item veto, it takes 71. That is an override rather than a restoration. Alright. Now, Mr. McCracken."

"Yes, will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Indicates he will."

"Representative, is it correct that the Governor's Office has committed to put this in its supplemental appropriation?"

"That's my understanding, Sir."

"And that Bill is to be called for passage in the second week of the Veto Session, the first week of December, is that right?"

"Whatever the schedule..."

"Do you have any reason to think that won't be the case?"

"No, I have no reason to doubt that. I, just as a judgmental position, I believe that it's less paperwork, much less difficulty. This would be simpler to do and plus I would like to support the Outdoor Highlight magazine."

"Well, if it's in the supplemental appropriation and that's going to be considered in December and the Governor 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 has already indicated his willingness not only to put it in, but to support it, then I would ask that we vote on this now as a 'no' to the restoration Motion and in December support it. Thank you."

"Further discussion? Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would just like to advise the Membership that we have not yet seen the supplemental appropriation Bill. We have cancelled the appropriation hearings for tomorrow because we have not yet received the exact language from the Governor as to precisely what he is proposing for the supplemental appropriations. At this point, all we are doing is... all we can do is work off the various press releases that have been issued by the Governor's Office. Furthermore, with respect to some items, we have seen two different numbers. So, I think the safest course of action is to override the vetoes in this case and then we will deal with any remaining... any discrepancies in the supplemental Bill. I think this is a simple, cleanest, straight... most straightforward solution. I support the Gentleman's Motion."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich."

"Yes, ordinarily, Representative McCracken's logic, I think, is about 99 percent accurate. This is that one percent in the... where the logic, I think, is convoluted because if it is the same amount that we are talking about, we can do it right now. I don't... I don't see any advantage of waiting for a supplemental Bill that may... something always can happen on the way to you know where, so the fact of the matter is we can do this now. There is no, absolutely no logic to doing it later when you have all of the votes here to do it presently. So, I would urge the 28  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE Members to vote for the override."

"The Gentleman from Madison, Mr. McPike, the Majority Leader."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. The only reason I could think not to do this would be for the Governor to be able to take credit for a Democratic project. The truth is is that the Governor wants to put out a press release when he comes out with the supplemental and take credit for a Democratic project. Instead of doing that, we should simply override the Governor's veto here and give credit where credit belongs. And in this case, Representative Phelps should be supported and I would encourage all 67 Democrats to vote for this."

"The Gentleman from Morgan, Mr. Ryder."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just respond to the previous speaker that that's probably as good a reason to vote against this Motion as any that I have heard. I have noticed by reading in some of the newspapers in my neck of the woods that the previous speaker was never hesitant about speaking of the projects in his area that came through our joint efforts and the Governor's efforts and I think that he... probably I was in a mood to help out my good friend from southern Illinois, but the previous speaker just gave me that little one percent of insight necessary to sustain the Governor's veto on this issue."

"The Gentleman from Saline, Mr. Phelps, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, it's been very clear for the very idea of this legislation... the intent is clear that the program is to be maintained. The Governor has simply made a mistake. This is the simplest way to correct it. We don't have to go through the hassle of wondering what the committee 29  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 structure is going to be, if the Bill is going to be drafted properly. We already know the Department has acknowledged its value, the Governor has, we have. Let's go on with restoring it the best way, the most simple way. Thank you for your support."

"Question is, "Shall the item on page 11, line 6 of House Bill 2988 be restored, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye", those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. It's 60 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 62 voting 'aye', 49 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Motion, having received the Constitutional Majority, prevails and the House overrides the Governor's item veto... item reduction on page 6... I'm sorry, page 11, line 6. Alright. We will return to the Motions originally addressed under this item of Business. House Bill 2987. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion. 2987."

"House Bill 2987, I move that the following items of House Bill 2987 do pass', the veto of the Governor notwithstanding."

"The Lady from St. Clair, Ms. Younge."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I move to override the veto of House Bill 2987 on pages 1 and 2, lines 32, 33 and 1 in the amount of 50,000 dollars. The 50,000 dollars is used... to be used for a feasibility study for a group facility to treat alcohol and substance abuse addicted women in the Metro East area. These funds will be used to determine the size of the facility needed, the amount of treatment, the number of people who will be treated and whether or not the children of the residents should be permitted to stay there 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 temporarily while the treatment is being afforded. There are about between one and two thousand women in the Metro East area that need this treatment. As of right now, there is only a twelve bed facility in the Madison County area and with one to two thousand women needing this residential treatment, that facility is inadequate. Because this is a health matter; because it is true that many women who are addicted to alcohol tend to abuse their children and; therefore, it is the children who suffer. I ask that this veto be overridden and these funds would be made available for this study."

"Alright, the Lady from St. Clair, Ms. Younge, has moved that the House override the item veto of the Governor. And on that, is there any discussion? Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates she'll yield for questions."

"Has this been authorized in previous years? I mean, the legislation or the program? Has it been authorized in previous years?"

"The Department has the authorization by statute to establish such group facilities. It has a facility in Alton. So the authorization is not a problem."

"And has funding been sought for it in previous fiscal years?"

"Funding has been... was sought for the actual facility, but this is a request for a study to determine the feasibility of the facility."

"Feasibility of the facility?"

"Yes. the nature and extent of the program and facility that would be needed, a group facility to treat alcohol addicted women."

"In his veto message, did the Governor identify why 31  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 this particular line item was stricken?"

"I believe it was simply that it wasn't in the budget."

"That it wasn't in the budget. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Kendall, Mr. Hastert."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Nould the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates she will yield for questions."

"Representative, this is a... was an Amendment onto the appropriation Bill, was it not?"

"That's correct.”

"And it was an Amendment for a new program, something for an exploratory type of thing in your area, is that correct?"

"It is an Amendment for a feasibility study for a group facility to treat alcoholic women. It is an Amendment for a study to determine feasibility, exactly what is needed for this health program.”

"Alright, thank you. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Mr. Speaker, this Amendment, as I remember it, was an addon in the appropriation process. Although I am sure the Sponsor of this Amendment is very well-intended and certainly trying to address a problem in her district, as well as across the State of Illinois, it's a problem that's also trying to be addressed on a statewide basis and already we do have the feasibility studies in place. It was discussed in Committee. It was debated in Committee and, you know, went down on a partisan... up or down on a partisan situation. It's plain that there is limited state funds, that this is a reproduction of something that's already being done and I would ask a 'no' vote."

Speaker Greiman "Further discussion? The Gentleman from Madison, Mr. Mc Pike, the Majority Leader."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 House. If this wasn't in the Governor's budget, it should have been in the Governor's budget. In southern Illinois, we have no treatment facilities for women. Let me repeat that. In southern Illinois, from I-70 south, from Madison County over to Effingham and south, we have no alcoholic treatment centers for women, none. I guess if you are wealthy, you can afford to go to St. Louis and check into a hospital for treatment or you can fly to Arizona for treatment, but if you are poor, in fact, if you are middle class, you really have nowhere to go. We do have a facility for men, but we have none for women and for us not to recognize this as a tragic problem that exists all throughout the state, not just in Representative Younge's district, but all throughout the state and try to address ourselves to it, is a disgrace. We should have moved years ago to establish a facility for women and this is the first step, simply to fund 50,000 dollars to decide the size of the facility, the location of the facility and let's move ahead on it. Certainly, we should not deny this to half of the population of the state. I would encourage everyone to give Representative Younge a vote on this."

"The Lady from St. Clair, to close."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I'll simply say with the recent initiatives by the Federal Administration, a war on drugs, all forms of drugs including alcohol, it would be appropriate for us to have a study at this time which will determine the nature and the extent of the need for the facilities to treat this health problem. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall this item pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. 71 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take 33  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 the record. On this question there are 61 voting 'aye', 48 voting "no", none voting 'present'. This Motion, having failed to receive the required Three-Fifths Majority, the Motion fails. On the Order of Reduction Item Veto Motions appears House Bill 2988. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 2988, 'I move to restore the following reduced items of appropriation in House Bill 2988, the reduction of the Governor notwithstanding.'"

"The Lady from St. Clair, Ms. Younge."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I move to restore the reduced amount in House Bill 2988 found on page 11, line 29 from 2,400,000 to 1,400,000 and I move that the million dollars be restored. This is a Motion whose subject matter is the Illinois Conservation Corps. There are about 600 young people who have found work as a result of this program in the state parks all over Illinois. On a year long basis, there are about 88 youths who receive $3.35 an hour for 37 hours a week work. As a result of the restoration of these funds, these 88 people will not be terminated in February. If these funds are not restored, they will be terminated and this Illinois Conservation Corps program will terminate. Some of the best architecture in Illinois is the result of the old CC program that this program is the new version of. The Pere Marquette Lodge is a good example of that and there are other examples. These young people get to go out into the various parks and they learn our work ethic. They are taught promptness. They learn how to work hard, how to make things in carpentry and they take part in construction projects. Probably the single most damaging thing in reference to the young people of Illinois is that there is no opportunity for them to give service to this state and to our society through meaningful work. All over the state 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 we have young people, large numbers of them, who are standing around in idleness and who are doing nothing. I think that when you think about the various anti-social behaviors that are possible when youth is in... is idle, it is a very small amount to... for us to invest in this program so that there can be meaningful employment all year around for these young people. And I move for the restoration of this million dollars."

"The Lady from St. Clair moves to restore this item. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Adams, Mr. Mays."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the the Lady yield?"

"Indicates she will yield for questions."

"We have a million four already appropriated for this purpose, do we not?"

"That's correct, but that amount will be... will run out as of February and the 88 people who are working in the twelve parks all over Illinois will be terminated from their employment as of February if this restoration is not granted by this House."

"And we have 88 people working in state parks right now with this million four and what you are saying is they will not be able to work if this million is not added to it?"

"The million four was used for 656 people during the summer program. In addition to the summer program, there are 88 people who work all year around. I have been informed by the director of the program that the 88 will be terminated in February if the restoration is not granted."

"What did the 88 people do?"

"They do construction work in the various parks. They clean up. They clean up the bike trails. They clean up the leaves. They have an opportunity to be involved in 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 conservation work. They learn how... what conservation is and they have an experience with the... with nature which is not a part of the usual experience of many of our young people of this state."

"Well, thank you very much. To the Motion, Mr. Speaker. This is another million dollars that may or may not be for a good purpose. I don't personally know how much it's needed in my area or in many of the areas of the state. Fact of the matter is, though, that we are going to be faced with any number of Motions today and tomorrow and over the course of the next two weeks. In addition, we are going to be faced with the supplemental appropriation at some point, at some level and everybody knows what the state's fiscal condition is or everybody should know by now that we don't have the kind of money to spend on everything that we would like it to be spent on. And for that reason, I would urge a 'no' vote on the Lady's Motion."

"The Lady from DuPage, Ms. Cowlishaw."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, each time that those of us who serve in this chamber vote on any Bill that has to do with the expenditure of state funds, we are telling the people of Illinois what we think is important. You all know that I have a very firm conviction about the importance of adequately funding and improving public education. In comparison to that goal, nearly any other seems minor, at least in my view. Here we have a million dollars and it seems to me we have a chance to make an important choice. We can use a million dollars to teach young people to rake leaves or we can use it to teach them to read."

"The Lady from St. Clair, to close."

"Thank you very much. I think that the Illinois Conservation Corps Program is very much an educational 36  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 program; because, when a young person learns as he works on improving the park system, what he learns in conservation are things which stay with him the rest of his life. I think that probably in every family there is at least one person who was in the old CCC program in which these structures were built. Many of those young people went on to become engineers and carpenters and people who engaged in physical construction. There is a need for our young people to have these educational experiences and I believe that the Illinois Conservation Corps is one of the best alternatives and preventative programs that we have at our disposal to keep people out of trouble, to keep people away from drugs, to keep them away from all the anti-social behavior that we end up paying $20,000 per person when there is an incarceration. What I'm saying is I think that we ought to keep this program alive because it is and does have a very excellent educational ability for the children who have a chance to participate in it and I ask for your support based on that reasoning."

"The question is, 'Shall this item be restored, the reduction of the Governor notwithstanding?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. 60 votes. Mr. McCracken, one minute to explain your vote."

"Verify if it appears to receive the requisite number."

"Alright. Thank you. Have all voted who wish? Yes, Ms. Younge, one minute to explain your vote."

"Right, this is... this needs 60 votes. We have 60 votes. If you haven't voted, please vote. This is very important. Thank you."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there 37  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 are 61 voting 'aye", 51 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken, has asked for a Verification of the Affirmative Roll Call. Mr. Clerk. Excuse me. Ms. Younge requests a polling of the absentees."

"Poll of the Absentees. Representative Dunn. No further."

"Mr. Clerk, proceed with the Verification of the Affirmative Roll Call."

"Berrios. Bowman. Brookins. Brunsvold. Capparelli. Christensen. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. Daley. DeJaegher. DeLeo. Farley. Flinn. Flowers. Giglio. Greiman. Hannig. Hartke. Hicks. Homer. Keane. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. LeFlore. Leverenz. Levin. Martinez. Matijevich. Mautino. McGann."

"Excuse me. Excuse me, Mr. Clerk. Mr. Dunn votes 'aye'."

"McGann. McNamara. Mc Pike. Horrow. Mulcahey. Nash. O'Connell. Panayotovich. Pangle. Phelps. Preston. Rea. Rice. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Steczo. Stern. Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. Washington. White. Wolf. Anthony Young. Hyvetter Younge. Mr. Speaker."

"Mr. McCracken, questions of the affirmative roll."

"Representative Braun."

"Ms. Braun is not voting, I think."

"Oh, I'm sorry. I'll have to watch the board. Representative Daley."

"Mr. Daley. Mr. Daley. Daley in the chamber? Mr. Daley."

"No, he's not here."

"How is Mr. Daley recorded?" 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting "aye."

"Remove Mr. Daley from the Roll Call."

"Representative Nash."

"Representative Nash. Is Mr. Nash in the chamber? Mr. Nash. How is Mr. Nash recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Well then, remove Mr. Nash from the Roll Call."

"Representative DeLeo."

"Restore Mr. Daley to the Roll Call."

"In thirty minutes, you can restore them all to the Roll Call."

"Mr. DeLeo. Mr. DeLeo. Is Mr. DeLeo in the chamber? Mr. DeLeo. How is Mr. DeLeo recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. DeLeo from the Roll Call."

"Representative Cullerton."

"Mr. Cullerton is at the press box."

"Getting publicity again. Representative Homer."

"Mr. Homer. Mr. Homer. Mr. Homer in the chamber? Mr. Homer. Could you move out? I can't see Mr. Homer's seat over there?"

"Come on, Mr. Speaker."

"Mr. Brunsvold, could you move out of the way, please?"

"Let's take the verification."

"Mr. McCracken, if you... we will call on you one at a time if you are unhappy. Now, I'm looking for Mr. Homer. Mr. Homer is not in the chamber. How is Mr. Homer recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Homer from the Roll Call."

"Representative Ronan."

"Mr. McNamara, for what purpose do you seek 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day recognition?"

"Leave to be verified."

"Pardon?"

"Leave to be verified."

"Mr. McNamara asks leave to be verified. You have leave. Mr. Ronan is at the phone in the rear of the chamber."

"Okay. Is Mr. Huff voting?"

"Mr. Huff has been excused this morning."

"Mr. Laurino."

"Mr. Laurino. Mr. Laurino in the chamber? Mr. Laurino. Mr. Laurino. How is Mr. Laurino recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Laurino from the Roll Call."

"Representative Kulas."

"Mr. Kulas. Is Mr. Kulas in the chamber? Mr. Kulas. How is Mr. Kulas recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Kulas from the Roll Call."

"Representative Keane."

"Mr. Keane is at the center aisle in the rear."

"Representative Panayotovich."

"Mr. Panayotovich. Mr. Panayotovich... Mr. Panayotovich in the chamber? Mr. Panayotovich. How is Mr. Panayotovich recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Panayotovich from the Roll Call."

"Representative Hicks."

"Mr. Hicks. Mr. Hicks is on the Republican side of the aisle."

"Where he belongs. Good to have you here Larry. Representative Richmond."

"Mr. Richmond. Mr. Richmond in the chamber? 40  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 Mr. Richmond. How is Mr. Richmond recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye."

"Remove Mr. Richmond from the Roll Call."

"Representative Van Duyne."

"Mr. Van Duyne is in his seat as always."

"Nothing further."

"On this question, there are 55 voting 'aye', 51 voting 'no', none voting present, and the Motion, having failed to receive the Constitutional Majority, fails. On the Order of Reduction and Item Veto Motions appears House Bill 2989. Mr. Stephens, do you wish to proceed with that? Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 2989, I move that the following items pass", the veto of the Governor in House Bill 2989 'do notwithstanding."

"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Mr. Stephens."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 2989, page 35, lines 4 through 8, the Governor saw fit to veto that item of 105,000 dollars for the Southwestern Illinois Metropolitan and Regional Planning Commission. It tremendously affects their budget in a negative manner, and I would urge the Body to restore the item veto based on the grounds that this Commission serves an economic development purpose in our area that can not be replaced otherwise. Our district in southwestern Illinois is dotted with many small towns that do not have the financial or political expertise to accomplish many of the goals that they can accomplish through this planning Commission. The 105,000 dollars is not... should be viewed as an investment for economic development in an area that, by and large, continues to grow at the direction and with the assistance of this Commission. This is an area of the state, southwestern Illinois, that continues to provide tax 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 dollars so that we can fund the programs like the 1.5 million dollars that was included in the last item that we discussed, and if we want to continue to fund those programs, we need to have initiatives that cause economic development. The economic development leads to more tax dollars. And I would urge a restoration of the item veto that... to House Bill 2989."

"The Gentleman moves that this item pass the Governor's veto notwithstanding. And on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton."

"Yes, will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he'll yield for questions."

"Representative Stephens, it seems like the last 45 minutes we've been on budget items that deal with southern Illinois. It seems like I've... we've been hearing a lot about southern Illinois' needs and we heard from Representative Younge for a... 50,000 dollars for an alcohol treatment center and then we heard from Representative Younge on another measure that will benefit southern Illinois, and Representative Phelps. Are you from southern Illinois as well? Is this a southern Illinois type of a measure?"

"Do you... do you have a map with you?"

"I'm vaguely familiar with southern Illinois. Where... is your district down there?"

"I live in I live in Caseyville which is... we like to call it southwestern Illinois."

"I see. Now, I assume you've been supporting all of these measures that we've voted on so far to help southern Illinois."

"I've been very selective in... in the way that I spend the taxpayers' dollars."

"Okay, well, I'll try to... I'll try to be the same. 42  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 I'll try to be the same. I supported... so far, I've got a 100% voting record on southern Illinois. What is this one about now?"

"The Representative to your left is very familiar with this, and this is a southwestern...

"I asked him and he said it didn't do anything, and that's why I wanted to find out from you. I'm inclined not to support it so I want to find out from you just what it does. It's some kind of money for a... how ... First of all, how much money are we talking about?"

"105,000 dollars."

"Not that much. In the total picture of the state, it would seem. And what is this 105,000 going to be spent on?"

"Well, it's an investment in the future of southwestern Illinois. We do a lot of things. We... basically give technical and research assistance to many of the small communities throughout southwestern Illinois."

"Research... research on what?"

"Planning for economic development, industrial parks, creation of jobs, any sort of..."

"I assume we're going to create some jobs right away with the 105,000 dollars. Is that correct?"

"It will only help maintain a budget that will provide those services. There are no immediate employment. This is actual planning dollars that will be used in the field, not for padding a payroll."

"Well... what... wait a minute. There is not going to be a payroll. Where are we going to put the 105,000 dollars, in the ground? I mean, we're going to give it to somebody for services rendered, aren't we?"

"It... it will be used in the field, in the smaller communities to help provide service, technical and 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day otherwise, for these small towns."

November 19, 1986 "Who is going to receive the money? Who is going to be paid the money?"

"Southwestern Illinois Planning Commission."

"Is this an existing agency right now?"

"It's an existing agency. It has been in existence, I believe, since 1963."

"And what is their budget now, their total budget?"

"I can't tell you."

"Approximately. Is it a million or dollars?" Stephens "Representative, I really don't know."

"Well what two million percentage... or approximately of... is this 105,000 dollars of the total budget?"

"Well, if I knew their total budget, I would be able to tell you that. My math is very good, but I just don't know their total budget. I can tell you that in recent fiscal years, in fiscal 81, they got from the state 115,000; 1980, 115,000; 79, 145,000, and more recently, in 1982 through 85, they received no funds from the State of Illinois. In 1986, they received 50,000 dollars and the 105,000 would have been used to further their efforts to aid economic development in southwestern Illinois."

"Did the Governor reduce this down to a level or did he eliminate it all together?" Stephens:

"He eliminated it all together." "And what did his budget message say?"

"I don't have a copy of it in front of me, but I'm sure that it referred to the fact that because of the budget constraints that the money was not there to pay for this."

"Do you think this is... "

"I'm not sure I agree with that."

"Do you think you have a lot of strong support on your 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 side of the aisle for this override?"

"Well, that's the reason we have the board up there. We'll have to see."

"Thanks. Now, there was one other question I was going to ask you. I can't remember it now."

"What does your advisor say?"

"Oh, what... do you recall... you indicated that you selectively support some of these veto overrides. How would you rate this on a scale, say of 50,000 dollars for an alcohol treatment center for women in southern Illinois. Would this be as important or more important or less important?"

"I would say that without continued economic development in southwestern Illinois to provide more tax dollars for us to distribute in Springfield, that if we don't continue to support programs like I'm asking you to support today, we'll never have enough money for those sorts of programs that you're referring to."

"I see. So in other words, this is going... if we spend this 105,000 dollars, we will, in effect, be creating more money in the long run, because we will be creating jobs... those jobs will bring in tax dollars to the General Revenue Fund. So really, in effect, we're going to be making money if we just spend a small amount for... southern Illinois."

"As I said, before I think it's a good investment."

"Fine. I have no further questions, Mr. Speaker."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he'll yield for a question."

"If we... if we vote with you on this for the 105,000 dollars for the Southwest Illinois Planning Commission, what will they do with the money? How will it be spent?" 45  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 Stephens; "Well, in a variety of ways. Let me just give you some examples: Two of the Commission's primary responsibilities, specifically enabled by this 105,000 dollars, will be to serve as research and technical assistance agencies for the entire region - it's a seven county area - and also to establish and maintain a central information program. These activities have been a very substantive part of the Commission's activity. Federal agencies and many private sector groups... excuse me, a substantive part of the Commission's activity, important for the region and extensively used by local governments, state and federal agencies and many private sector groups and organizations. Generally, the use ranges from 30 to more than a 100 requests a week. Intensified economic development activities during the past few years have substantially increased the use of the central information service and the requests for advisory and technical assistance. Because of the budget's constraints, due principally to diminished state and federal funding, the Commission's capacity to keep information systems updated, to respond to requests for information on short term assistance, and to participate as necessary in the accellerated economic development activities of the region, continues to decline. Curtailment of nonessential Commission activities and implementation of the cost containment measures has been substantially offset by general cost increase and new or additional administrative requirements."

"Then, just tell me yes or no. Is that, then - the 105,000 - to be used for payroll... payroll expense for people to be there to answer questions?"

"I would assume that part of the 105,000 dollars will wind up in payroll for those people who will be answering 46  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 the technical questions and providing technical service in the field to the small municipalities of our district."

"Do you... does your office, your legislative office, get requests for the same information?"

"No, not really."

"Well, we do in our office."

"Well, see we don't have any engineers in our district office. I... "

"Can't you... well, we have one or two."

"I'm sure."

"Can't you just forward those questions on?"

"Are they on the payroll?"

"Can't they just forward those questions onto DCCA? Is it that the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs does not respond to this organization down there for help?"

"Well, the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs is very active in our district and provides a much needed service, but the sort of technical assistance that we are able to provide, with a Commission like the Southwestern Illinois Planning Commission is a... supplements the sort of service that DCCA provides."

"How many people do they employ?"

"I cannot answer that question."

"Do you know what their total budget is?"

"I do not know."

"Pardon?"

"I do not know."

"Well, I was trying to figure out whether this was half of their total budget, 105,000. That would be devastating to an organization... "

"Well, I can only tell you that their Executive Director told me it would have a substantially negative effect if they did not receive this money." 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

"Or if it's like the Northeastern November 19, 1986 Illinois Planning Commission. They spend, I would think, hundreds of thousands of dollars and this might represent only two or five percent of their total budget. Therefore, based on the directive of the President of the United States, they should have to tighten their belts a little. What do you think?"

"Well, I think that they have done a good job with the money that we've sent them. I think that it's an investment in the future of an area in our state that continues to provide those tax dollars to fund other programs of need throughout our state."

"Do you have any idea how many people they employ?"

"I would think, on a full time basis, probably only four or five. Lots of... a good deal of their money is spent in consultant work and hiring of people to come in and supplement local communities' technically weak staffs."

"Are any of those people that are employed there friends of yours?"

"I have friends throughout my district."

"Are any of your precinct workers employed by this organization?"

"I'm not sure what a precinct worker is."

"Well, if you told me that they did, I'd help you because I think that's a vital part of government, is to help you, but since you can't tell me, I guess I will give you a soft 'no' by voting 'present'."

"Well, that's your privilege."

"The Gentleman from Marion, Ar. Friedrich."

"Hr. Speaker, Members of the House, I... my district is served by two planning agencies and this is one of them, and I can tell you that in the rural areas and small towns, we are very, very dependent on these planning agencies to 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 help us with all kinds of programs. And I think that this request by Representative Stephens to restore this money is certainly in order, and I would urge you to support it."

"Further discussion? There being none, Mr. Stephens, to close."

"Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's important to note that this Planning Commission serves a seven county area, provides supplemental care and technical assistance to more than 574 local... units of local government. The great majority of those are not staffed or funded to maintain information that is frequently needed to provide economic development. I would urge a 'yes' vote in the Motion to override the line item veto."

"The question is, Shall this item pass the veto of the Governor notwithstanding? All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open and this is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 61 voting 'aye', 22 voting 'no', 18... Yes, Mr. Cullerton. What? Mr. Cullerton votes 'aye'. Vote Mr. Cullerton 'aye'. On this question, there are 62 voting 'aye', 22 voting 'no', 18 voting 'present'. The Motion, having failed to receive the required Three-Fifths Majority, the Motion thereby fails. On page 14 of the Calendar on the Order of Reduction and Item Veto Motions appears House Bill 2989. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion. Yes, Mr. Leverenz."

"My intention to withdraw the Motion."

"Alright, with leave of the House, the Motion is withdrawn. On the Order of Reduction and Item Vetoes appears House Bill 2989. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"I move that the following items of House Bill 2989 49  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 'do pass", the veto of the Governor notwithstanding.."

"The Lady from St. Clair. Hs. Younge."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I move to override an item in House Bill 2989, on page 24, lines 21 through 25. This is an amount of 140,000 dollars or as much as is necessary for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the East St. Louis Area Development Authority. The East St. Louis Area Development Authority was set up in September of 1985 and its mission is to come up with a long range redevelopment plan for the East St. Louis, Alorton, Centerville, and Brooklyn area. During the first year of funding, the staff was hired, the furniture was purchased, the facilities of this agency were leased and they have set up an accounting system which makes the agency operational. The agency has five mayors on its board. It has the Director of the Illinois Finance Development Authority, the Illinois Housing Development Authority and it has made a group of management decisions which has made its projects, #1; a retail mall, which it has already started, which will hire some... 200 to 300 persons, some 20 jobs will be developed in a printing industry and it is working currently on a trash to energy facility. The... this agency is giving technical assistance in the area of housing to some... to the City of Centerville which is developing a 40 acre tract of single family housing. Additionally, it is helping to renovate the downtown area of a little community by the name of Alorton. This agency is set up and the funds involved in this override Motion are the second action year. It would be tragic to... not to override this Motion and to continue this agency during the second action year. And I ask for your assistance and support in reference to my Motion.

"The Lady from St. Clair moves for the override 50  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 of this item veto. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates she will for questions."

"Representative Younge, the item is for 140,000 dollars for the ordinary and contingent expenses. Is that right?"

"That's correct."

"And, what does that cover? Is part of it composed of salary... Capital improvements, or what is it?"

"It covers the salaries of the staff of the agency, the executive director, the deputy director, the planner and the accountant... it covers an amount for planning. It is a planning and public development agency for the metro east area."

"And are the members paid?"

"No, the members of the board are not paid."

"So, this is just staff salaries."

"It's staff salaries and planning."

"So, am I correct in assuming the Governor's budget did not account for all of the staff in its budget?"

"That's correct."

"Well who did it miss? I mean, have there been additions since the budget was passed in the spring?"

"The... the... the first... the agency has been established for one year. The Governor vetoed the second action year of the agency's budget."

"So, this is the entire budget?"

"That's correct."

"Okay, thank you. To the Bill."

"Proceed, Sir."

"I stand in opposition to the override Motion. I think that this is not a matter of a shortfall of funds 51  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 done inadvertently by the Governor's Office. This was a line item veto. Apparently, the decision of the Governor's Office had been made that it did not want to fund this, given all the other priorities in the budget and its duty to produce a balanced budget. And, I respectfully rise in opposition to this Motion."

"Further discussion. There being none, the Lady from St. Clair, briefly, to close."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. This agency, the East St. Louis Area Development Authority, is needed in order to help the five municipalities that are severely depressed come up with an action plan for their economic development. The members of the board consist of the five mayors of the five cities, plus the head of DCCA, IHFA, and IHDA, and this agency is progressing and has set itself up and is operating and should be given an opportunity to continue its mission to bring about economic recovery in this very severely depressed area. There is no way, with the severe and large amount of public aid and general assistance and help from the state that is needed, unless there is a management entity that can come up with a long range redevelopment plan, can we hope to bring this severely depressed area out of its economic decline. It is for those reasons that I ask your support in overriding this veto."

"Question is, "Shall this item pass, the Governor... the veto of the Governor notwithstanding?" All in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. 71 votes to pass. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. This Motion, having failed to receive the Constitutional Majority required, hereby failed... is declared failed. On page 14, on the Order of 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day Reduction and Item Vetoes appears House Bill 2989, Motion 4. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 2989, I move that the following items of House Bill 2989 do pass the veto of the Governor notwithstanding."

"The Gentleman from Saline, Mr. Phelps, on Motion #4."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I move to override the veto of 25,000 which was applicable to Southeastern Junior College, Community College in Harrisburg, Eldorado area are seeking to have a feasibility study made of several acres that has been donated to them by Peabody Coal Company. Up to 1,000 could possibly, 1,000 acres could possibly... be finalized with a development for recreational activity. It is a beautiful area. We need the 25,000 dollars for feasibilty study, how to go about that, and the donation of the land is contingent upon that development and that plan coming before the coal company. So, I would appreciate support for overriding this veto."

"The Gentleman from Saline has moved that... that the House override the item veto of the Governor. And on that, the Gentleman from Adams, Mr. Mays."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"Indicates he will."

"In the Governor's action, did it take down this line item to zero?"

"Yes, Sir."

"Okay. So you're seeking to restore the entire amount?"

"Which was 25,000, yes."

"How did you arrive at the figure of 25,000 dollars in the first place?" 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"Actually, a consultant with the community college staff that would be handling the... in conjunction with the Southeastern Planning Commission of that area and the Conservation Department possibly be drawn in, and the Department of Commerse and Community Affairs recommended that if you were going to provide a plan, it would be this kind of action that would be necessary, and the amount of money, I think, came out of that conversation of a hearing that we had."

"Can you explain how the donation of the land is contingent upon these monies being restored?"

"Just a matter of a verbal agreement. They've actually approached the college and the President, Dr. Able, there saying, 'They've already donated 250 acres.' We're talking about possibly housing for senior citizens and all kinds of development. But, zeroing in on the... mainly on recreational activity, the lay of the land lends itself to that sort of idea. So out of that, I think, has become the community college drive for trying to get those funds to capture the commitment from the coal company to give the... rest of the 750 acres."

"Were there any agreements that were made prior to the first 250 acres being donated that there be planning money or grant money made available to Southeastern Illinois College?"

"No, I believe the discussion led that they would try to show some tangible effort convincing them that they really were serious about the land. So they gave the 250 with no strings attached, to my knowledge."

"Well, thank you very much for responses to the questions. Again, I think we're faced with the decision and prioritizing in state budget matters and this is a fine example. It's a very, very small amount that the 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 Gentleman is seeking, theoretically, for a big amount to come in at some point on the basis of a handshake or verbal agreement. I don't know that we can put this in the type of priority perspective that the Gentleman seeks to do, and I would suggest that a 'no' vote on the Gentleman's Motion might be appropriate."

"Further discussion? There being none, the Gentleman from Saline, Mr. Phelps, to close."

"Twenty-five thousand in this particular venture is a small request. It would be a small investment which could reap possibly a very big return. And I believe this is one of the best proposals asking for the least amount of money that could be seed money that could have ramification for the whole area of Southeastern Illinois, and I appreciate your support of the override."

"The question is, Shall this item pass the veto of the Governor notwithstanding?" All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote no. Voting is now open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. Mr. Tate, were you seeking recognition? Mr. Tate, do you want to explain your vote?"

"Speaker, my red button won't flash red."

"It's red on my board."

"Yeah, but it's not red on my board."

"Well, perhaps you need a new bulb. We'll take care of this. It's red on mine and apparently it is red there, too."

"I'd like to bring that to your attention, Speaker."

"I appreciate you doing that, Mr. Tate. I'm deeply concerned with all these issues. Thank you. You are shown as 'no', and I assume that's how you want to 55  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 question, there stay. Is that correct? Alright, on this are 62 voting 'aye, 49 voting 'no", none voting 'present' and this Motion, having failed to receive the appropriate Constitutional Majority, hereby is declared failed. On the Order of Reduction Veto Motions (sic Reduction and Item Veto Motions) on page 14 appears House Bill 2989, Motion 5, Mr. Davis. Not in the chamber. Out of the record. He's not here today. Appears Motion 26 to House Bill 2989. Ms. Barnes, do you wish to proceed? Mr. Clerk, read the Bill... Read the Motion."

"House Bill 2989, I move that the following items of House Bill 2989 'do pass', the veto of the Governor notwithstanding."

"The Lady from Cook, Ms. Barnes, on Motion #6. Ms. Barnes."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What I wish to do is restore 100,000 dollars to the Office of the Lieutenant Governor for its ordinary and contingent expenses. I would ask for an 'aye vote."

"The Lady from Cook, Ms. Barnes, asksd that... moves that this Motion... that this item pass, notwithstanding the Governor's veto. And on that, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz."

"I rise in support of the Motion."

"Thank you, Representative Leverenz."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Cullerton, did you have your light on. Mr. Preston."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the lady yield for a question?"

"Indicates she will."

"I'm trying to see if I understand this. The Lieutenant Governor is asking us to reinstate funds that the Governor of Illinois decided, in his wisdom, should not be 56  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 appropriated to the Lieutenant Governor's Office. Is that correct?"

"That is correct. I think when the Lieutenant Governor sat down with the Governor, why, he was able to convince him that he should have his 100,000 for economic development pursuits."

"We'll you said, you think. But, as far as the Hotion is concerned the Lieutenant Governor seems to be fighting now with the Governor."

"Oh no. They're a team."

"Oh, SO they are in accord, then. The Governor has agreed to override his own veto."

"That is correct, and I appreciate your asking those questions."

"Okay, well, I'm going to support either the Governor or the Lieutenant Governor on this. Thank you."

"Thank you."

"Further discussion. The Lady from Cook, Ms. Barnes, to close."

"I would merely ask for a support of my Motion, Mr. Speaker."

"Shall this item pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding? All those in Favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. 71 votes to override. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 105 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. The Motion, having received the required Three-Fifths Constitutional Majority, the Motion prevails, and this item is hereby declared passed, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding. On the Order of Reduction and Item Vetoes appears Motion J7 to House Bill 2989. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion." 57  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986

"I move that the following items on House Bill 2989 'do pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding.."

"The Gentleman from McLean, Mr. Ropp."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. This... Motion is to override $7,000 that goes for the funding of the Normal Community High School Band to the Orange Bowl. The Normal High Band is one of the largest and one of the finest bands in the State of Illinois. I know each one of you would say that each district you are particularly proud of your own bands. This one has received national recognition both in this country and out of the country. In Canada there are some 248 of them. They are in attempt to raise funds to do this. This is about half of what we had in the initial budget and, I would ask your support in overriding of the $7,000 so that 248 youngsters can appear in the Orange Bowl festivities this coming year."

"The Gentleman from McLean, Mr. Ropp moves that the House override the Governor's item veto. And on that, is there any discussion? the Gentleman from Madison, Mr. McPike."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, maybe Representative... you could get this band to come down and march on the land that Representative Phelps wants to develop into a recreational area."

"Do you want them to come down?"

"I think Representative Phelps was trying to develop a recreational area. I was just wondering if perhaps, if you could convince the band to come down and march in this area that you refused to support for $25,000 about five minutes ago."

"I think they'd be more than happy to come down and march in his area, if they get the invitation."

"They would have to, of course, march in a... in an area 58  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 that is not developed. And they wouldn't have any problem marching through underbrush, would they?"

"Well, they would probably prefer to avoid the underbrush."

"Right."

"It's hard on some of their uniforms that they have and scratches up the instruments, you know."

"Right. Well, I think I would ask the Democrats to do whatever Representative Phelps does on this."

"Well, I'm sure that Representative Phelps if he is going to invite us... if he is going to invite us why we'll be glad to come down so... Am I closing?

"No... You're closing now. Mr... You're closing now, Sir. Alright. You've, just closed, yes."

"I did?"

"The question is, Shall this item pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding"? All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed "no". This is final action. 71 votes required. Would you like a minute to explain your vote, Mr. Ropp?"

"I'd be more than happy to. Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I've supported all of these activities that deal with young people involved in bands and participation. I'm a sports enthusiast but, I think being a part of a band and participating in these international and national programs does much more good in preventing young people from getting involved in drugs, in abuse and any other programs that we spend multitudes of dollars for. I, think a few thousand bucks of prevention is much better than spending millions and millions for kids who get into problems as a result not having something to do in their educational process, and being a part of the band does allow that to happen."

"Ms. Cowlishaw, one minute to explain your vote." 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

"Mr. November 19, 1986 Speaker, I didn't wish to explain my vote, but only to ask that the board get corrected so that it says, the item upon which we are voting."

"Mr. Clerk, while Mr. Maloney is correcting the board. Mr. Bowman, did you wish to explain your vote on this close issue?"

"Well, actually just to make a suggestion to the various Sponsors. It seems to me that since this appears to be failing that maybe both Representative Ropp and Representative Phelps might like to refile their Motions for tommorrow... consideration on tommorrow's Calendar."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 29... 28 voting 'aye', 70 voting 'no', 8 voting 'present', and the Motion fails. An item in veto Motions... oh, I sorry. On Reduction and Item Veto Motions, page 14 of the Calendar, on House Bill 2989 appears Motion 8. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 2989, a Bill for an Act to restore the following reduced items of appropriations on House Bill 2989. The reduction of..."

"The Lady from Cook, Ms. Barnes."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What I want to reduce... do is restore on page 19, line 7, from $196,600, I want to restore the Clean and Beautiful Program money to $280,000."

"Yes, did you conclude your remarks, Ms. Barnes?"

"Yes, I did, Mr. Speaker."

"Okay. The Lady from Cook, Ms. Barnes, moves that the House restore this item veto of the Governor... the veto of the Governor notwithstanding. Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz. Mr. Leverenz." 60  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986

"I simply rise in support of the Lady's Motion."

"The question is, Shall this item be restored to its original amount, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is now open. 60 votes required. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 89 voting 'aye', 1 voting 'no', 3 voting 'present'. This Motion, having received the Constitutional Majority, prevails, and the House does restore the Governor's item reduction. Motion 9, out of the record. On the Order of Reduction and Item Veto Motions appears Motion 10, House Bill 2989. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"I move that the following items of House Bill 2989, 'do pass', the veto of the Governor notwithstanding."

"The Gentleman from Will, Mr. Van Duyne."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do move that the reduction veto of the Governor be restored. Actually, it is itemized reduction, so I would like to have... so I file this override Motion, the reduction of the Governor's veto notwithstanding. The history of this is that in 1982 or 1983 we passed substantive legislation which gives the school districts what we call tax equivalent grant in lieu of taxes not collected where state land is occupied in a certain geographic area of the school districts. Specifically, this affects schools in Jack Davis's district and Jack not being here, the superintendent of the school district called me and asked me to file this on their behalf. He tells me that this reduction would be absolutely catastrophic to District 88's schools' performance this year and I... would plead for an affirmative vote. I've explained this to the other side of 61  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 the aisle and I have no feeling other than that they would go along with me on this, and I would be glad to answer any questions."

"The Gentleman from Hill moves that this item pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding. And on that, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. Hoffman."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this appropriation was to cover legislation that we adopted in 1985. For some reason, this item was taken out of 3390 where it was originally placed by the State Board of Education, and was later tacked on to this particular appropriation Bill and all... all additions to this particular piece of legislation were stricken in the review process in the Governor's Office. Representative Van Duyne adequately describes the legislation. It does affect the district, a school district which has 45 percent... a little more than 45 percent of their property is included in Statesville, and many students reside on that property. The property receives... or the school district receives no tax on that property, and this was a way to make the tradeoff. I rise supporting the Motion made by Mr. Davis, who was unavailable... unable to be here today and Mr. Van Duyne's Motion to override the line item."

"Further discussion? There being none, the Gentleman from Will, Mr. Van Duyne, to close briefly."

"I simply ask you for your 'aye' vote. I think that Representative Hoffman has depicted the situation as it is. It would be a catastrophic situation for this school district, and I just plead for your 'aye' and affirmative vote."

"The question is, Shall this item pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding?" All in favor 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no". Voting is open. This takes 71 votes. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 97 voting 'aye', 11 voting 'no", 1 voting 'present'. And this Motion, having received the required Constitutional Majority, the Motion passes and the item is hereby declared passed, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding. On the Order of Reduction Veto... Item Veto Motions appears House Bill 2995. Motion #1. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 2995. 'I move to restore the following reduced items in appropriations...."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman, on Motion #1."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This item reduction veto Motion pertains to the domestic violence line item. Now, I believe that every Member of this House is aware of the domestic violence shelter program run through the Department of Public Aid. There are domestic violence shelters for battered women and their children all over the State of Illinois. These programs are essential, and I believe that there is very widespread support for these programs within the House of Representatives. The original amount included in the budget was 3.1 million dollars. The Governor, in responding to the fiscal crisis of midsummer, reduced that amount by 1,064,000 dollars. That is a reduction of approximately one-third. And, I assure you Ladies and Gentlemen, if we permit this reduction to stand, these programs will be decimated. Now, the Governor recognizes this problem and is proposing to restore one million dollars of the money in a supplemental appropriation Bill. There are a couple of problems with this approach. Number 63  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 one, we have not yet seen the supplemental appropriation Bill provided that the Governor is going to recommend. The reason we have cancelled the hearings for Thursday is because we do not have anything in writing other than press releases. In this particular case there is an additional problem. The veto takes away 1,064,000 dollars and the proposal that has been floated publicly is to restore a million dollars. That is a discrepancy of 64,000 dollars. Now, 64,000 dollars is a lot of money to one of these shelters for battered women, and it may make the difference between a shelter opening or not opening. So I believe that the best course of action, the simplest, the most direct. would be to override this veto, to make absolutely sure that these programs are adequately funded, and that we are able to capture the additional 64,000 dollars that was provided in the original appropriation. Therefore, I move that we pass House Bill 2995, the item reduction veto of the Governor notwithstanding."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman, moves for the restoration of this item. And on that, the Gentleman from Kendall, Mr. Hastert."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Certainly, my fine colleague across the aisle and I have been through a lot of these issues before and certainly at this time of year, we start to order what our priorities are. We also start to look at the bottom line of what kind of dollars that we have in the budget. Ironically Representative, that this Order of Business is on the supplementary budget, a budget that you will be working on along with myself in two weeks and the interim period in that two weeks' time. We do have time and we do have the opportunity to refashion what our needs are, what our priorities are, and certainly what the bottom line is 64  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 in this state and what we can afford to do and what we can't afford to do. I look forward to working with you on that supplementary budget. I know that you will be there and you'll have great imput as you always do, and I would ask that you would have patience and go along with this amendatory veto and that we can restructure and refashion that in two weeks time. So in that case, I would ask that we would vote 'no' on this issue."

"Further discussion? There being none, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman, to close."

"Well, just to observe, Mr. Speaker, that a few moments ago, we passed a... an override Motion pertaining to the Lieutenant Governor's Office. Now, as I understand it from the debate, the Governor had changed his mind on that particular issue and it seems to me that if the supplemental budget is the way to go on these things, then we should probably have failed to override the Governor's Veto at that point. The simple fact is, however, that Motion passed with bipartisan support and I assume that the reason it passed with bipartisan support was that people want a little insurance on important matters, that suppose there isn't a supplemental budget in the next couple of weeks. We don't know whether it will come in in January or whether it will come in in December. All we have to go on at this point is the pledge that there will be a supplemental budget at some point down the road, and as all of us know, the later we deal with that the less effective... less effectively these agencies can spend the money that we appropriate to them. And so, I urge my colleagues now in the same bipartisan spirit that provided the Lieutenant Governor's office with his funding, even though the... in response to the Governor's change of heart, that we override this veto, too, on the very same 65  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 principle. I ask for a bipartisan vote on this Motion."

"Question is, 'Shall this item be restored to its original amount, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor'? All those in favor signify by voting "aye, those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. 60 votes to pass. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 76 voting 'aye', 36 voting 'no', none voting 'present'. This Motion, having received the Constitutional Majority, hereby prevails and the House does restore the Governor's Item Reduction. On the Order of Reduction and Item Veto Motions appears House Bill 2995. Motion #2. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"I move to restore the following reduced items of appropriations in House Bill 2995, the reduction of the Governor notwithstanding.."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman, on Motion #2."

Mr. Bowman: "Thank you, Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I move to restore the vetoed item... vetoed funds from the emergency shelter program for homeless persons. The Bill, as it was sent to the Governor, contained three million dollars for this line item. The Governor reduced that amount by 769,000 dollars. The operating principle here is the same as on the last vote. The Governor has had a change of heart in this matter and probably will be providing more funds than he vetoed out. However, as I indicated before, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush, and we don't know whether the supplemental budget will be presented to us now, at a time when we can take action during the fall session, or early in January. All we know is that we will be presented with the supplemental, and 66  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day winter is coming. now, November 19, 1986 And, I think that we should take action so that these emergency beds can be put in place before winter gets here in earnest. We've already had some very very cold nights with the temperatures dropping near zero, and I think that the quicker we deal with this issue the better off our homeless citizens will be. Therefore, I urge the restoration of this 764,000 dollar reduction."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman, has moved for the restoration of this item. And on that, the Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates he'll yield for questions."

"Representative, my file indicates that the Department of Public Aid intends to request an additional 1.42 million dollars for this line item as part of the supplemental. Is Bowman: that correct?" "That is my understanding, but does your file indicate when they are going to request it?"

"Well, I assume they are smart enough to request it Bowman: right away." "Well, that is your assumption, Representative McCracken, but it doesn't say so in your file and it doesn't say so in my file, either."

"Okay. Well then, do you know if they have the good sense to request it right away? Even though this is overridden, will they request the 1.4 million or will they reduce it by the amount, if this is overridden?"

"Mr. McCracken, I would assume that that will be negotiated at that time. That... I cannot speak for the Department of Public Aid, but my concern is that if we do not take this action at this time, then the Senate will be precluded from considering the reduction veto the first week of December, and if anything goes wrong. it will be 67  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 the homeless people of this State who are holding the bag. I want this veto reduction restored, as an insurance policy against that happening."

"Thank you. To the Bill, as I understand it... thank you. As I understand it, the reduced level still represents an increase over FY '86 GRF Funds put to this purpose and the three percent reduction which is a part of this reduced level as reflected in the amendatory veto is one applied consistently throughout the budget. I think that if, in fact, DPA intends come back for an amount almost twice as great as what's being cut or more than twice as great as what's being cut, they will do so within the next two weeks as will many other supplemental appropriation matters be considered, and that's the time to take care of it, and I think a 'no' vote on this one is in order."

"Yes, Mr. Johnson, were you seeking recognition?"

"Yeah, I guess. Yeah."

"Mr. Johnson."

"Representative Bowman, I'm not completely familiar with this... this program that this seeks to fund and in amounts... tell me what it does?"

"Okay."

"Who are the homeless people and what are we doing for them?"

"Okay, the... well, the homeless people, I think, probably need little description. These... these are the people who are undomiciled. They have no address. They have no roof over their head..."

"Are they like State Legislators?"

"I beg your pardon?"

"Like State Legislators? We have like two homes. We're 68  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 never in a domocile."

"No, I'm afraid, Representative Johnson, these people are more unfortunate than the State Legislators."

"No, I'm... I'm... the question is not facetious. I'm interested in knowing how the people are identified and what these funds do. Do the funds, for example, provide homes for them or food for them or do we simply give them money?"

"Representative Johnson, I was trying to give you a straightforward technical explanation. You interrupted my explanation with a facetious remark."

"Proceed Gentleman with this... proceed with the question."

"I apologize."

"Okay. Now, these people are undomiciled. They have no place on a regular basis that they can go to sleep. There is a program, a state wide program that provides emergency shelters for these persons. These emergency shelters are usually run by not-for-profit organizations that receive grants from the state for purposes of paying the heating bills and laundry, and the like. They... these programs exist all over the state. There is a advisory committee that assists the Department of Public Aid in reviewing grant applications."

"So... so... so the money is specifically for shelters, as opposed to any... any kind of grants or... or anything else. They're simply in the shelter catagory. Is that right?"

"The grants... there are grants, but they do not go to the homeless persons themselves. These are grants to not-for-profit organizations, and perhaps in some cases units of local government, if they offer shelters directly." 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"How well is... how well, and what studies have been done to buttress result one way or the other. Is this program working now?"

"Well, Representative Johnson, in fact, there was a big debate going back several years over how many homeless people there are in the State of Illinois, particularly in the City of Chicago, because it does tend to be concentrated more in urban areas. The Department of Public Aid commissioned a study which the Legislature helped appropriate funds to pay for. That study lowered the figure that... of 25,000 that had been commonly used prior to that date. However, it confirmed that there are... there is a shortage of beds in... particularly in the City of Chicago, which the city focused on. and I believe by extension elsewhere in the State of Illinois because these shelters are run throughout the state, but it did confirm a shortage of beds."

"I didn't question the fact that there are people who need shelter. My question is, how well is this program, under current funding, operating in meeting those needs? Now the argument could be made that large percentages of the people who would be eligible to take advantage of for a variety of reasons, wouldn't take advantage of it."

"Well, Representative Johnson, I... I assure you that the program that has been operated to date operates very, very well and is very cost effective, I might say. It only costs a couple of dollars a day per person. And, it operates so effectively that the Department of Public Aid is or has indicated their intention to ask for more money from the Legislature. My main reason in overridding this veto at this time is to make sure that the money is available at the proper time and in that... in case the supplemental Bill gets hung up in the last days of the 70  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 Session, that the homeless people will not be left holding the bag. But, in answer to your in question, it operates very well. It has the endorsement of the Department of Public Aid, and they would like to have more money to spend on this program as well."

"The Gentleman from Cook... Mr. Johnson, do you want to address the Bill?"

"No."

"Alright. Mr. Levin."

"I rise in support of this Motion. The question was raised, what is the situation in terms of the homeless and I'm not sure about your district but, I don't... I see an increasing number of homeness... homeless in my district. You know, as I'm driving in my car, you know, you see the individual with the shopping cart with all of his or her wordly items in that cart. And what kind of brought it home to me is not just the number of people, but I got somebody who seems to be permanently residing about half a block from my house, right around the corner, and there is an increasing problem. These people really need the help. I visited a number of the shelters and these shelters are very, very crowded, in fact, you know, to the point where they have to turn people away because they just don't have the facilities. We need this additional money and we need it now, in order to help these individuals."

"The Gentleman from Cook... Cook, Mr. Bowman to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. All I can say is, as Chairman of the Appropriations Committee, I have received many requests from people not only this year, but in prior years dealing with supplemental appropriations. I think probably every Member of this House at one time or another has had an item 71  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 they're interested in having placed in the supplemental Bill. But, SO I ask you just recall from your own experiences how many times have there been delays, and delays, and delays in dealing with supplemental appropriations? Last year, we had a supplemental Bill on our Calendar for about two months before we finally passed it... at the... before the Spring Session adjourned. So, these things can get hung up for procedural reasons, for nonsubstantive reasons and I urge all of you to... to take an affirmative step now to restore monies that are desperately needed for this program that everyone, including the Department of Public Aid, recognizes that are desperately needed for this program. So, that we can go home today and not have to worry that something is going to go amiss and that we won't be able to deal with the supplemental buget in time. So, that these people, who are among our most unfortunate citizens will not be left holding the bag because of some glitch in the system. I ask you, I implore you, to restore these funds now and give the Senate that option in the first week of December."

"The question is, 'Shall this item be restored to its original amount, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor'? All those in favor signify by voting 'aye", those opposed vote 'no". Voting is open. This is final action, 60 votes required. Have all voted who wish? The Lady from Champaign, Ms. Satterthwaite, one minute to explain your vote."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I rise simply to indicate that this is not a Chicago problem alone. There are many homeless people in all parts of our state. It is a problem that is particularly acute for women, because there are many shelters that will house men only. And, I see that we currently have the votes and I am 72  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 happy for that. I think that it is a program that is much needed all over the State of Illinois."

"ΜΕ. McCracken, one minute to explain your vote."

"Seek a verification, if it remains close."

"Alright. The Gentleman from Lake, Mr. Matijevich, one minute to explain your vote."

"Yes, I would hope we could get some more votes on this particular issue, because I think all of us ought to speak for the homeless. I think it is a darned shame that anybody can vote against the homeless. You know, many of these homeless are mentally ill and mentally retarded and they find that they are in an area that they can't help themselves. I think that this is an issue that ought to be unanimous. Everybody ought to have some feel, especially as winter is coming, for the homeless. This is an issue that no Member of the Legislature should be voting against. How can anybody vote against somebody that doesn't have a roof over their heads? Winter is coming. Let's help the homeless, please."

"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question, there are 65 voting 'aye', 43 voting 'no", I voting 'present'. And the Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken has asked for a verification of the Affirmative Roll Call. And the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Bowman, has asked for a Poll of the Absentees. Excuse me, Mr. Berrios, did you wish... vote Berrios, 'aye'. Poll those not voting."

"Poll of those not voting. Giglio. Leverenz. And Saltsman."

"Vote Mr. Leverenz, 'aye'. Mr. McCracken, questions of the Affirmative Roll Call. Oh, I'm sorry. 73  143rd Legislative Day Clerk STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 Mr. Clerk, let's read the Affirmative Roll Call first."

"Poll of the Affirmative. Berrios. Bowman. Breslin. Brookins. Brunsvold. Capparelli. Christensen. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. Daley. DeJaegher. DeLeo. Deuchler. Dunn. Farley. Flinn. Flowers. Virginia Frederick. Goforth. Greiman. Hannig. Hartke. Hicks. Homer. Keane. Kirkland. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. LeFlore. Leverenz. Levin. Martinez. Matijevich. Mautino. McAuliffe. McGann. McNamara. McPike. Morrow. Mulcahey. O'Connell. Olson. Panayotovich. Pangle. Phelps. Preston. Rea. Rice. Richmond. Ronan. Ropp. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Steczo. Stern. Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. Washington. White. Wolf. Anthony Young. Wyvetter Younge. And Mr. Speaker."

"Questions of the Affirmative Roll, Mr. McCracken. Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you. Representative Nash. Nope, I see him, I see him."

"Mr. Nash is in his chair and he has not voted. ... He voted 'present'."

"Well then, stay there, Steve. Representative DeLeo."

"Mr. DeLeo. Mr. DeLeo. Is Mr. DeLeo, in the House? Mr. DeLeo. How is Mr. DeLeo recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove the Gentleman."

"Representative Homer."

"Mr. Homer. Mr. Homer is at the door."

"Okay. Representative Pangle."

"Mr. Pangle is at the well."

"Representative Laurino."

"Mr. Laurino. Mr. Laurino is at the rear of the chamber."

"Representative Ronan." 74  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

November 19, 1986 "Mr. Ronan. Mr. Ronan in the chamber? Mr. Ronan. How is Mr. Ronan recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Ronan from the Roll Call."

"Representative Mulcahey."

"Mr. Mulcahey is at the rear of the Democratic aisle."

"Representative O'Connell."

"Mr. O'Connell. Is Mr. O'Connell in the chamber? Mr. O'Connell. How is Mr. O'Connell recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. O'Connell from the Roll."

"Representative Krska."

"Excuse me. Excuse me, Mr. McCracken. Vote Mr. Saltsman, 'aye'. Now, Mr. McCracken, back to you."

"Representative Krska."

"Mr. Krska. Mr. Krska. Mr. Krska in the chamber? Mr. Krska is in the rear of the chamber."

"Representative McGann."

"Mr. McGann. Mr. McGann in the chamber? Mr. McGann. How is Mr. McGann recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. McGann from the Roll Call."

"Representative Christensen."

"Mr. Christensen. Mr. Christensen. Mr. Christensen in the chamber? How is Mr. Christensen recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Remove Mr. Christensen."

"Representative Panayotovich."

"Mr. Panayotovich. Mr. Panayotovich in the chamber? Is Mr. Panayotovich in the chamber? How is Mr. Panayotovich recorded?" 75  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye'."

"Then remove Mr. Panayotovich from the Roll Call."

"Representative Richmond."

"Mr. Richmond is in his chair. Further questions, Sir?"

"Is Representative Richmond here? I didn't see him."

"He is in his chair."

"Oh, I'm sorry."

"Further questions?"

"Representative Rea."

"Mr. Rea is at the rear of the chamber."

"That's all."

"On this question there are 62 voting 'aye', 43 voting 'no', 1 voting 'present'. The Motion, having received the Constitutional Majority, prevails, and the House does restore this item. Representative Breslin in the Chair."

"Ladies and Gentlemen we are going to the Order of Total Vetoes. It appears on page two on your Calendar. I repeat, we are going to the Order of Total Veto Motions, appearing on page two on your Calendar. The first Bill is House Bill 2735, Representative Steczo on Motion #1. Mr. Clerk, would you read the Motion."

"Motion, 'I move to... that House Bill 2735 do pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding."

"Representative Steczo on the Motion."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. I would move to override the Governor's veto of House Bill 2735. The intent of House Bill 2735 is to provide an alternative apportionment formula which would reduce the... the tax liability of cooporations that have their headquarters in Illinois or who have a large employee base in the State of 76  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 Illinois. The Bill allows companies whose payroll factor is 250 percent or more of the average of the sales and property factors, to exclude that payroll factor in determining their... their... their... in computing their tax liability. The important factor to understand is that when a company chooses to do that, they will have to make that election for 10 years. So, we have tried to draw this Bill tightly, so a company or a corporation in Illinois can't simply go from one formula to another, as the need may arise within a period of time or year to year. Once they would elect to take this change in the formula, they would have to remain that way for a period of 10 years. The Governor indicates in his veto message, that having signed House Bill 2819, of which I was also the Sponsor, that House Bill 2735 is duplicative. And I think that most of us can see that the Governor is erroneous in that assumption. House Bill 2819 addressed one issue. House Bill 2735 addresses a completely different issue, but the important thing for us to remember is that what we are seeking to do in House Bill 2735 is to give a break to a corporation that has an overabundance of employees in the State of Illinois. The whole purpose of economic initiatives and economic development is to try to create jobs, try to lure jobs. This provision or these provisions in House Bill 2735, provide a goal for corporations to reach, knowing that if they hire employees, if they put employees on the payroll, and the average of those employees is 250 percent above what the other two factors in the formula are, they will get a reward, if you will, from the state. There are very few corporations right now that would qualify for this, and it's my understanding that the revenue impact of the State of Illinois, at this time, would be minimal. So, it's seems to me for us to... to... 77  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day to, to... November 19, 1986 override this veto and put this in motion would be a good idea. It's something we could strive for. It's something we could sell. It's something we could use so that corporations in the State of Illinois could locate more of their employees here, establish more of their headquarters here, and really do something good to put people in the State of Illinois back to work. Madam Speaker, I would, at this time, renew my Motion to override the veto of the Governor."

Speaker Breslin: "The Gentleman has moved to override the Governor's veto of House Bill 2735. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing no discussion, the question is... excuse me... Hearing no discussion, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 2735 pass, notwithstanding the veto of the Governor?' All those in favor vote 'aye", all those opposed vote 'no". Voting is open. This Motion requires 71 votes to override. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 89 voting 'aye", 20 voting 'no", and 2 voting 'present', and the House... this Motion, having received the required Three-Fifths Majority vote, prevails. On Total Veto Motions the Motion to override appears House Bill 3043. what reason do you rise?" Representative McCracken, for

"Madam Speaker, a point of personal privilege. The West Leyden High School is with us today, students from there. Which gallery are they in? Above behind me, West Leyden High School. Stand up and say, 'Hi.'"

"Okay. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen."

"Thank you."

"House Bill 3043, Representative Rea. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion." 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

November 19, 1986 "House Bill 3043, I move that House Bill 3043 do pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding.."

"Representative Rea."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I move for a total override on House Bill 3043. House Bill 3043 establishes the West Frankfort Civic Center Act, authorizing an authority there. It amends the Herrin and Jefferson County Civic Center Act permitting the authority to issue general obligation bonds, if approved in a referendum. It also amends the Civic Center Support Act to permit authorities which are grantees of the state bonds, to retain the interest earned or monies granted by the state to the authority. and it amends the State's Attorneys Appellate Prosecutor's Act to authorize the Office of the Appellate Prosecutor to receive and distribute funds for grant purposes. This, as it relates to the West Frankfort one in particular, they have a facility there that they... that would be excellent for a civic center, and they were just asking for the authority and... the building and... will help economically and culturally in terms of, not only West Frankfort, but in terms of the region. And I would ask for an *aye vote."

"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3043, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding. And on that question, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Bill dealt with more than just civic centers. It amended a number of Acts, or I should say, it amended an Act in relation to units of local government. It amended several of those Acts. The State's Attorneys Appellate Prosecutor's Act, the Herrin and Jefferson County Civic Center Act, Metropolitan Civic Center Support Act, Illinois Grant Funds Recovery Act, and 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 it created a new Civic Center Act. The State's Attorneys" Appellate Prosecutor's Act authorizes the State's Attorneys Appellate Prosecutors to receive state funds to disburse to local governments. The Governor felt this was unnecessary because the office is already authorized to accept and spend funds from any public source, and moreover, it is harmful because it creates expectations for funding which can't be realized due to budget constraints. And in addition, I might add, in this fiscal year at least, and to my knowledge, that there is none been proposed so far for supplemental purposes, no funds are currently appropriated for that purpose. The West Frankfort Civic Center Authority will increase future pressure to provide state financial support through civic center bonds. And with the passage in Washington of the New Tax Reform Act, limitations on bonding is going to be a fact of life within Illinois. In this time of decreasing availability of bond fund use, I think it's appropriate that that portion also not be passed into law. The other Acts allow the issuance of general obligation debt for the purpose of the Herrin and Jefferson County Civic Center Authority and implies that the bonds may be deemed state debt. They clearly should not be state debt. They are not state debt and at the very least, it would be necessary to amend and to clarify that these do not constitute state debt which has the full backing of the state. I would ask that we sustain the Governor's total veto of this Bill and ask that we defeat the Motion."

"The Gentleman from Knox, Representative Hawkinson."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise in support of this Motion. This was initially my legislation. And the reason for the introduction of this legislation was quite simple. 80  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 We had a signed written contract with DCCA which provided that the civic center in Knox County would be allowed to keep this interest money. Attorneys for DCCA then felt that the Grant Recovery Act would prevent this agreement from being carried out and DCCA suggested that we change the law. That's what we're doing in this piece of legislation to uphold the integrity of the contract that was signed. money that was promised and guaranteed, and I would urge a green vote."

"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Churchill."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Rea, can you tell me what the current status of legislation is regarding the making of a grant if the grant is not used within a two year period of time?"

"If the grant is not used in a certain period of time?"

"Yes."

"Well, I think that there is a provision, and I can't tell you what that time provision is, but I believe that through the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs, their civic center division, that when monies are granted to a local authority that they do have to be utilized within a year or a two year period, I'm not sure what that timing is."

"And if they're not used within that time period, then they are returned to the state?"

"They would be returned to the state."

"And does this Bill change that provision?"

"This Bill does not change that provision."

"So, in other words, at the end of the two year period, if you have not used the money. that money will be returned?" 81  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

"That's correct." Churchill:Okay. November 19, 1986 What about the interest that's earned on the grant money? Does this Bill change the current provisions regarding interest?"

"Yes, this does, and I believe... in terms of Representative Hawkinson, that he might... I would defer to him on the interest part."

"Does the interest that's earned on the grant monies while it's not being spent, does that interest come back to the state or does it go to the authority that received the grant? Representative Hawkinson."

"Excuse me. the question.." Hawkinson: Representative Hawkinson, to answer "The grant money was not totally given in the case of the Knox County. They got a two million dollar grant and only a one-eight was given. So, the interest was withheld from the very beginning."

"Under this piece of legislation, would the interest revert back to the state or would the granting body that received the grant keep the interest?"

"The receiving body would keep the interest. In actuality, what it would mean is that the money that was withheld in advance would have to be forwarded to the civic center authority."

"So then, if the grant were not used during the two year period, the institution that received the grant may still receive interest that's been earned on that money."

"What do you mean, if it wasn't used? DCCA approves the use of the money in advance of the grant and approves the contracts and they're all let and under contract right now."

"He have a provision in the statute that if grant money is not used within a two year period, it's returned 82  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 to the state. The question is, what happens to the interest on that money if the grants were not used?"

"Then it would be returned as well, if the grant's returned."

"Okay. According to the analysis which I have, that's not the case and the interest would remain with the body that was to receive the grant."

"The body doesn't have the interest now. It was kept by the state."

"But this... So, this changes it?" Hawkinson "So it's not... Hopefully, yes."

"Okay. Thank you."

"Representative Rea, to close."

"I think that this legislation certainly is very important to the economic and social welfare of many communities throughout the state. And when it passed the House earlier, it passed by a substantial vote, and I would just ask for an 'aye' vote in terms of an override to House Bill 3043."

"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3043 pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Representative McPike, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of Representative Rea, but also in support of Representative Hawkinson. This really, as Representative Hawkinson said, started. It was his initiative. He had an agreement with DCCA that the interest from the grant should go to the civic center. Because of the law, DCCA had a difficult time fulfilling that obligation in the Governor's department. DCCA came to the Legislature and said, Would you help us correct it?' Throughout the entire Spring 83  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 Session, DCCA was in support of this. DCCA had initiated this. The Governor's staff throughout the entire time said that the Governor was in support of this. This is the only part of the Bill that costs any money. The rest of the Bill cost the state not one penny. Not one penny is going to be spent on any other provision in the Bill. We're going to set up a civic center authority in West Frankfort. We've set up a number of civic center authorities. I think we have about 50 in the state. A number of Legislators come here and say, 'Would you help me set up a civic center authority?" Perhaps those people at the local level would like to fund that civic center authority. There's no money being spent from the state. Everyone recognizes that we have no new monies for civic centers today. It doesn't mean that we should not go ahead and help a Legislator set up a convention center authority in his district, so perhaps, he can get money from his area to move ahead with it. There's nothing in this Bill that costs any money, with one exception, and that is the exception that I mentioned to that Representative Hawkinson and DCCA worked on all year. I think the Governor is... I think that the Governor's department should live up to their support of this now after it was them that initiated it. So, I would ask those on this side of the aisle to support Representative Rea and those on the other side of the aisle to support Representative Hawkinson. I think it's a decent Bill, and it certainly is not going to break the state because the money is there and it's available."

"Have all voted who wish? This Motion requires 71 votes for passage. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 64 voting 'aye', 45 voting 'no', and 3 voting 'present', and this Motion has failed to receive the required Three-Fifths 84  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 Majority, so the Motion to override does fail. House Bill 3431, Representative Flinn, on Motion #1. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

Clerk O'Brien "Motion. 'I move that House Bill 3431 do pass", the veto of the Governor notwithstanding.*"

"Representative Flinn, on the Notion to override House Bill 3431."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I move that House Bill 3431 pass, the Governor's veto notwithstanding. What House Bill 3431 does, it provides a stipend for county treasurers of 3500 dollars a year and it is done for the reason that there are additional duties handed to the county treasurers, and they are mandated duties. They are mandated from the 84th General Assembly for Bills. In each case, the treasurer takes on additional duties, which he's required to do by state law. The first Bill authorized a system which requires a treasurer to obtain consent from the property owners, the trustees and the power of an attorney before changing an address form can be completed, and other added changes along with that responsibility of the treasurer is that the treasurer must now list each tax form, on each tax form, the breakdown of the tax dollars that are paid to the library systems. The treasurer must now contact and invest, collect rather, and invest additional quarter sales tax. The law requires that the monies stay in the county in the general fund. The county treasurers are also required to notify lienholders annually upon receipt by certified and registered mail for the application and judgment, and they're also required about five additional duties in the law enforcement area. All of these duties are not too dissimilar to the county clerks' duties a few years ago when we voted to give the county clerks a 3500 85  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 stipend. I think the Governor probably was misinformed or misguided, whatever... use whatever term you wish. I strongly suspect if he had a choice to do it all over again, he would probably sign the Bill, but I can't speak for the Governor, nor do I try to stand here and do that today. The request is not an unreasonable one, and that it costs less than 400,000 dollars to fund and it is for mandated duties required by the treasurers of the 101 counties. It does not apply to Cook County. It does not apply to the only home rule county we have, which is Cook County. I would stand for questions, but move that the Bill pass, the Governor's veto notwithstanding."

"The Gentleman has moved to override the Governor's veto of House Bill 3431. And on that question, the Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, during the last Session, I spoke to you about a question that I want to find out whether or not we actually dealt with or not and whether or not this Bill now has any effect on it. When we passed the same kind of Bill for county clerks, many counties, unfortunately, reduced their portions of the pay, so that county clerks really didn't get any more money, generally speaking. Did this Bill address that to prevent those counties from doing this so that this, in fact, would be a 3500 dollar increase rather than to just be a replacement of 3500 dollars from each county?"

"Well, in answer to your question, I don't know that we could prevent this from happening, but certainly those people who are drawing a minimum salary would get the additional 3500. Obviously, they can't cut below the state mandated minimum for treasurers. I would hope that the 86  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 intent of the Legislature would be that this is, indeed, additional monies for the treasurers. And I go on record as saying that even though it may not be covered specifically in the Bill that way, in any event, I hear of any incidence where the county decided to stay to save money at the expense of both the State of Illinois and the treasurer, that I would be the first to introduce a Bill to stop them from doing it next year."

"Okay, that's what I wanted to hear, at least, the legislative intent, if not as it is so written, the intent is that this should not be used to replace or lessen the contribution from the county, that it should be an increase. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Knox, Representative McMaster."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I believe that there is currently no law that says we can prevent the county board from lowering the elected officials' salaries, the amount of what we turn over to them. I think it is also possible if the elected official at the county level, clerk, treasurer, circuit clerk, wants to use that 3500 dollars for the expense of operating their office, they can do so. And I think when we get into a position of restricting the county's ability to make adjustments in salaries, I think we're getting in trouble. I think... I have nothing against this legislation. I'll probably vote for it, but nevertheless, to go further than that, I think that's up to the counties and the elected officials themselves. I don't think we should be into that mess."

"Representative Flinn, to close."

"Well, Madam Speaker, I believe everybody pretty well understands what the Bill does, and I ask for a favorable vote." 87  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

November 19, 1986 "The question is, "Shall House Bill 3431 pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 88 voting 'aye', 23 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. This Motion, having received the required Three-Fifths Majority, the Motion to override prevails. Ladies and Gentlemen, we will now go back to Reduction and Item Veto Motions appearing on page 14 on your Calendar. The first Bill is House Bill 2995, Representative Bowman. Mr. Clerk, read Motion... Excuse me. It should be House Bill 2996, Representative Matijevich, Motion #1. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 2996, I move to restore the following reduced items of appropriation on House Bill 2996, the reduction of the Governor notwithstanding."

"Representative Matijevich."

"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, in House Bill 2996 on page three, line 15, I would move to restore the amount of 961,450 dollars to the full amount of 7,529,650 dollars, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding. Madam Speaker and Members of the House, these are funds earmarked for grants to 75 local public health departments in Illinois. These departments represent our front line of defense against the spread of communicable diseases in the State of Illinois. In many areas, local health departments are the only providers of in-home health and social services so necessary to our state's growing aging population. The demands on these departments have far outstripped the resources in the past decade. The recent studies have clearly demonstrated the serious erosion over the past seven years in state funding 88  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 for local public health services. Since the fiscal year '80, the decline has been on the order of 41%. The public health departments have been, as I said, our front line of defense. When we heard so much of the salmonella crisis, it was the local health department, for example, in my Lake County, that was taking samples of milk and really, we're the first to find out of the crisis that was developing around the State of Illinois. The public health departments are in that area of preventive health that is so important to curb communicable diseases. I think... I've always been one who has been concerned about our physical condition. Yet, in all of my years in the Legislature, it has always been whether there is a Democratic Governor or a Republican Governor, when we get to appropriation matters, we always get a letter from the Governor saying that we must not support any overrides of gubernatorial vetoes with regards to appropriations. Yet, if the past is prologue, and believe me it will be, when we adjourn two weeks from tomorrow, there will be a supplemental Bill. And there will be another one when we come back in January and there will be another one or two before we adjourn on June 30th. There will be supplemental Bills. So, the issue here is, where do we place public health on our own priority agenda? I think all of us must admit that our local health departments, our local public health departments do an excellent job. It isn't a Democratic or Republican issue. If it were, in my county, we are dominated by the Republican Party, but the public health department does an outstanding job. And the issue is, where do we want to place Illinois in regards to its public health departments? Illinois spends a 53 percent... 53 cents per capita on its commitment to funding local public health departments. 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 Let's compare that, For example, California, a population of 24 million spends 126,000,000, and that was in FY "84, by the way. Georgia, with a population of 5,000,000, spends 33,000,000. We only spend a little over 6,000,000 dollars. Kentucky, with a population of three million and a half, spends 8,000,000 more than us. Maryland, with a population of 4,000,000, spends 30,000,000. Michigan spends 18,000,000. Minnesota spends 11,000,000. New York spends 64,000,000. North Carolina, 14,000,000. Ohio, 17,000,000. South Carolina, 19,000,000. I think we, in Illinois, deserve better. We should not turn our backs on public health. It is so important to the welfare of our citizenry. So, I would urge the Members of both sides of the aisle that we restore this so that our local health departments that we have a better commitment to them that they can do the... provide the excellent services and continue to do the good job that they do, and I urge your support."

"The Gentleman has moved that the item be restored to its original amount. And on that question, the Gentleman from Adams, Representative Hays."

"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will.

"How much did the Governor reduce the budget that the House passed, John?"

"The amount enacted was 7,529,650. He reduced it down to 6,568,200, which is a reduction, as I said, of 960,000, I believe it was."

"At what level did the Governor introduce the budget last year?"

"I don't have that before me."

"At this level?" 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

"I don't..."

"Alright, let me just..."

"I don't have that before me, Jeff."

"Fine. From what I understand, the Governor introduced the budget around this level for this purpose. We added to that in the budgetary process which is, of course, within our jurisdiction and right and prudence sometimes. With the fiscal crunch that has come upon us, the Governor has reduced this back to the introduced level or near that level. That level at that time represented almost, from what I've been told, a 7.8% increase over the previous year's budget amount and while it may not represent as much as some of us would like, it still represents a far better increase, then a lot of the agencies were able to take with the budget considerations that we have. So, it would seem to me that if there is a case to be made and, John, if there is, you could do it better than anybody, but if there is a case to be made, it would be better made if the amount of increase still remaining in this line item were less than what I had been told it is. For that reason then, I would urge that the Members on... in this chamber reject this Motion. It is another costly increase, of course, for a noted good, but I believe that we have to start saving those dollars wherever we can, especially if we're going to accommodate some of the other requests that are sure to be coming. Thank you."

"There being no further discussion, Representative Matijevich, to close."

"Yes, I respect Jeff Mays' comments. However, as you were commenting, Jeff, I was speaking to both our staff director and the staff person in charge of the appropriation on Human Services Issues, and they said, in... with my remarks, it said, was the reason that the 91  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 House and the Senate increased at the level that we finally enacted was because we had to catch up, because the local health departments in the last six years, virtually the increase is a total of 16 percent. Yet the level of inflation was over... around 55 percent. So, we are playing catch up on real vital services. We have not been giving the local health departments, for example, these added costs of services or cost of living increases, so the services they are providing cost so much more. Also, my staff has indicated to me that there are three new programs that we have added and mandated that they service, and we haven't given them the proper amount of funds for those new programs, and these counties are in LaSalle, Woodford and Crawford, these new programs. So, I would urge the Members of the House to restore this amount. It is for public health and it is so direly needed."

"The question is, Shall this item be restored to its original amount, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor?" All those in favor vote "aye", all those opposed vote 'no". Voting is open. This Motion requires 60 votes to carry. Have all voted who wish? Representative McCracken, for what reason do you rise?"

"Verification."

"Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 62 voting 'aye', 46 voting "no", and I voting 'present'. Representative McCracken requests a verification. Would you poll the affirmative, Mr. Clerk? Excuse me. Representative Matijevich asks for a Poll of the Absentees. Poll the absentees."

"Poll of the Absentees. Deuchler. Farley. Goforth and Keane. No further."

"Would you read the affirmative, Mr. Clerk?" 92  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"Berrios. Bowman. Breslin. Brookins. Brunsvold. Capparelli. Christensen. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. Daley. DeJaegher. DeLeo. Dunn. Flinn. Flowers. Giglio. Greiman. Hannig. Hartke. Hicks. Homer. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. LeFlore. Leverenz. Levin. Martinez. Matijevich. Mautino. McGann. McNamara. McPike. Morrow. Mulcahey. Nash. O'Connell. Panayotovich. Pangle. Phelps. Preston. Rea. Rice. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Slater. Steczo. Stern. Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. Washington. White. Wolf. Anthony Young.

Wyvetter Younge. And Mr. Speaker. Speaker Breslin: "Do you have any questions of the Affirmative Roll, Mr. McCracken."

"Yes, Ma'am. Representative Mulcahey."

"The Gentleman is in the chamber."

"Oh, I'm sorry. Representative Hicks."

"Representative Hicks. Representative Larry Hicks. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Steczo."

"Representative Steczo is in the chamber."

"Representative Terzich."

"Representative Terzich. Representative Bob Terzich. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him."

"Representative Berrios."

"Representative Berrios. Representative Joseph Berrios. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him."

"Representative Capparelli."

"Representative Capparelli. Representative Ralph Capparelli. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is 93  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day not. Remove him."

"Representative Krska."

"Excuse me. Representative Farley, for what reason do you rise? Representative Farley wishes to vote 'aye', Mr. Clerk. Vote Representative Farley 'aye'. Representative Krska. Representative Bob Krska. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Laurino."

"Representative Laurino. Representative Bill Laurino. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him."

"Representative Panayotovich."

"Representative Panayotovich. Representative Sam Panayotovich. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him."

"Representative McGann."

"Representative McGann. Representative Andy McGann. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him."

"Representative Keane."

"Representative Keane. Representative Jim Keane. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Ronan."

"Representative Ronan. Representative Al Ronan. The Gentleman is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call. Representative Bob Terzich has returned to the chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting 'aye'."

"Representative DeLeo."

"Representative DeLeo. Representative Jim DeLeo. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call." 94  STATE OF ILLINOIS 34th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

"Nothing further."

Speaker Breslin: "Representative Representative McCracken, Roll Call. Representative November 19, 1986 Keane was not voted 'aye', so he was not removed from the Berrios has returned to the chamber. Restore him to the Roll Call voting 'aye'. Representative Martinez, for what reason do you rise? Representative Martinez, the Gentleman has closed his verification, so there is no need to request leave to be verified. On this question there are 55 voting 'aye', 46 voting 'no', and 1 voting "present", and the Hotion fails to receive the Constitutional Majority, so the House does not restore these funds in this item veto. House Bill 2998. Out of the record. House Bill 2998, Motions 1 and 2. Out of the record. House Bill 3090, Representative Matijevich, Motion 1. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 3090, 'I move that the following items to House Bill 3090 'do pass', the veto of the Governor notwithstanding.'"

"Representative Matijevich."

"Take that out of the record, please."

"Out of the record. House Bill 3090, Representative Currie, Motion #2. Read the Motion, please."

"House Bill 3090, 'I move to restore the following reduced items of appropriation in House Bill 3090, the reduction of the Governor notwithstanding.'"

"Representative Currie, on the Hotion."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Members of the House. One of the stellar items in our 1985 school reform package was a commitment, the first commitment in the State of Illinois, and among the first commitments acrosS the midwest to early education opportunities for educationally disadvantaged youngsters as a way to make a long term 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 difference in the capacity of our schools to do a job for our children and our children's future. Research in Ypsilanti, Michigan, shows that one dollar of money spent early in the education of a child, who would otherwise start school at high risk of failure, saves seven dollars in the long run, seven dollars in the cost of remedial education, seven dollars in the cost of a welfare system, seven dollars in the cost of a prison system. In 1985, we funded our early education program so that it would reach in that first year, nearly eight percent, but only eight percent, of the children eligible for its health, children who would otherwise start school at a substantial risk of school failure. That year, those eight percent were served in the half year program. This year, in this budget year, the State Board of Education requested of us quadruple funding for the program so that it could move beyond a half year, so that it could take a second step toward providing these educational opportunities for Illinois youngsters. The General Assembly, because budget issues were tight in the spring, said 58,000,000 dollars was too much. We reduced the State Board's request to 24,000,000, doubling the initiative of the first year because in the second year of reform, an entire school year and not just half a year was at stake. The Governor unfortunately in July slashed the dollars we'd sent him, and it is those dollars that were slashed that I seek to restore in this item. The State Board tells us that this year they'll be serving 1500 fewer children through the preschool program because of the Governor's cuts. If we have as we thought we did in 1985, a real commitment to future opportunities for better schools, for educationally disadvantaged children, a "yes" vote on this Motion is one way to reaffirm that commitment to our children and to the future of the State of Illinois. 96  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 I would be happy to answer your questions, and I would appreciate a 'yes' vote on this Motion on House Bill 3090."

"The Lady has moved to restore funds to this line item to its original amount. And on that question, the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. If the reduction veto Motion were defeated, the FY '86 appropriation would still be more than three and a half million dollars greater than the prior year's appropriation for this purpose. Now, with that in mind, I ask this Body to examine whether a 12,000,000 dollar increase over what is already a 41 percent increase over the previous year's appropriation is necessary in this time of priorities for scarce resources in with the state budget. I respectfully submit that this is not the priority we should have. Let's stick with the 41 percent funding increase over the prior fiscal year and leave it at that. It does no disservice to this program, and I would ask for a 'no' vote."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz, on the Motion."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just want to stand and rise in support of the Lady's Motion in that the Governor's first commitment was to the education of our children, and I think we should all vote 'aye' for that reason."

"Representative... the Lady from Cook, Representative Didrickson."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. I, too, rise in support of this restoration by Representative Currie. I think we all have our priorities. One of our priorities with the education reform package was indeed this early education component. It's a very smart way to spend our money. It's a very good priority that we have that in the State of Illinois and funded properly, because 97  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 we know from a seventeen year study for every dollar that we put in, we have a seven dollars saving in the life span of that child with regards to future expenses to the state, whether it be welfare, whether it be prisons, et cetera. I think it's wise money spent. It's my priority, and I hope it will be yours, too."

"Representative Currie, to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think the issue's been well aired. If we want to make an investment in our children, we said we did in 1985, if we want to support that investment for a full year program, not just a half year, then these dollars must be restored. I would appreciate your 'aye votes."

"The question is, 'Shall this item be restored to its original amount, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor?' All those in favor vote "aye. all those opposed vote "no". Voting is open. The Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite, one minute to explain your vote."

"Madam Speaker and Members of the House, I believe one of the speakers on the other side of the aisle gave an erroneous impression that the reduced level was substantially above last year's appropriation. That is not true when you consider that a good portion of last year's appropriation was for identification of students at risk who would be ready to go into this year's program, and so the total amount that we had last year was twelve and a half million dollars. And I think that it was really money well spent to identify those children in need of service, but it certainly does them a disservice if, after having identified them, there is no program for them to enter and to receive the advantages of early childhood education. It would, in fact, waste the money that we spent on 98  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 identification last year, if we could not follow through with services to those young people in our communities."

"Is there any further discussion? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 70 voting 'aye', 41 voting 'no", and none voting 'present'. This Motion, having received the Constitutional Majority, thus prevails, and the House restores the item listed in Motion 2 for House Bill 3090. House Bill 3090, Motion #3. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 3090, I move to restore the following reduced items of the appropriation of House Bill 3090, the reduction of the Governor notwithstanding."

"Representative Bowman, on Motion #3."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I move to restore the line items that pertain to Chicago bilingual education and downstate bilingual education. I want the Body to be aware that the Governor reduced the Chicago line from 16.9 million to 13.9 million. That's a reduction of almost 3,000,000 dollars. The downstate line was reduced from 9.7 to 4.6, a reduction of 5,000,000 dollars. This particular reduction falls most heavily on downstate. It virtually cuts in half the appropriation that this Assembly made to the downstate portion of this program. Now, we have had on the Governor's vetoes throughout the fall, September and October. We had one meeting devoted exclusively to education. We had hundreds of people come to speak to us about this particular issue. We had people from Waukegan and Rockford and even Wheaton and communities as far away as 60 or 90 miles, and they came from Democratic districts and Republican districts. This is a program that helps school districts deal with children who have special language problems that need to be overcome. This is a 99  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 program. It is a transitional program in which students, while they're learning English, SO that they can be mainstreamed and study shoulder by shoulder with their native born schoolmates, that they can learn the substantive courses such as algebra and government in their native language. So, this is a transitional program. The Governor's action falls Gost heavily on downstate. It virtually cuts it in half. I think the reductions are SO sizable as to impair the operations of the program, and it's certainly unfair in terms of the allocation and the distribution. So that on both grounds, I urge this Assembly to override and restore these line items to their original appropriated amounts."

"The Gentleman has moved to restore items to their original amount in House 3111 3090. And on that question, the Gentleman from Kendall, Representative Hastert."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. We've just added 12,000,000 dollars onto the budget a few minutes ago. We have another piece before us that will add millions more to the budget. And I think we have an underlying issue here. The underlying issue is, what dollars do we have in the State of Illinois, what can we afford to spend and, in fact, what are we willing to spend in this General Assembly right now, today? We are talking about a program that's funded exactly the same level as last year. We're talking about a program that deals with bilingual education. We're talking about a program that we need to make basic assessments in our educational program in this state to decide whether we're going to increase the separation of languages inside our school systems or we're going to implement a one language system. When you start pumping millions and millions of more dollars into a 100  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 separate language system, I think we're asking for strong and very severe cultural splits within our school system and within our social system. I think that's the issue, an issue that we must address, and I certainly feel that, again, we are funded exactly without this addon at a level that is exactly the same as last year, but the people who are pushing this override are asking for millions and millions of dollars more to do what we did last year."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hoffman."

"Thank you, Madam... Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would like to reiterate one point made by the previous speaker and make a concomitant point, if I may. The issue... the issue centers not so much around the programs as they center around the resources that are available to us for distribution to these programs. Now, as we look at each one of these in isolation, we have... it has a tendency to blur the big problem, and the big problem is that there is a desire for more spending than there are resources available. The tangential point that I want to make to that is that whatever we draw down on the resources during this Veto Session, that is going to reduce the resources that are available to us as we move into the next fiscal year. So, those of us who are coming back are going to be coming back with less resources equal to those that we expend during this Veto Session. This particular program is funded at the same level as it was in the previous year. It can be easily argued, I suppose, that that is not enough, but it cannot be argued that there are more resources available than there are and that those resources which remain, and obviously we're going to be below the 200 million level irregardless of what we do, will reduce the resources that 101  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 are available to us during the next fiscal year. And so, for those reasons, Ladies and Gentlemen, the resource reasons, I rise in opposition to this legislation and other legislation which does the same thing."

"The Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor please yield?"

"Representative Bowman will yield to a question."

"Representative Bowman, a question. Is there any research that would back up the fact that this kind of program that we currently are funding increases the ability for a youngster to speak English quicker than if the instruction was just for English all along?"

"Actually, Representative Ropp, the... this is not... unfortunately, that's not the issue involved here. The... I think you're probably referring to maybe some alternative programs, such as teaching English as a second language and things of that nature. The point is here that while a student is learning English by whatever method, they will be falling behind in other subjects, such as biology and algebra and government courses and things of that nature. The purpose of these programs is to make sure the students don't fall behind while they're learning English. So, that your question, unfortunately, is beside the point."

"But actually, they shouldn't fall any farther behind, because as I understand it, we're funding them at the same rate that we did last year. Is that not correct?"

"I'm sorry, would you repeat the question?"

"I say the fact is that they should not fall behind any farther because we are, in fact, funding with the reduction at the same amount that we funded last fiscal year." 102  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"Well, except, Representative Ropp, there is one little problem. You and I and the rest of the people sitting in this room, acting together increased the mandate on the local school districts. Prior to last year, a school district did not have to offer a bilingual program in a certain language area if there were fewer than twenty students who qualified. Now, we changed the law last year so that now, next year, all school districts throughout the State of Illinois will have to offer bilingual programs in any language, any language if there is even one pupil. So, the situation is completely different next year, Representative Ropp, and we all participated in passing that legislation."

"Maybe that was our big mistake."

"There being no further discussion, Representative Bowman, to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would just like to point out one other thing that we have not touched on in the debate, and that is that we are having a tremendous problem throughout the state with dropouts, and we have other line items to deal with in that regard, but when it comes to students whose native language is something other than English, studies have shown that 70 percent of the people... the students who are in bilingual programs eventually graduate from high school. Now, that is a much, much larger percentage than students who do not have access to bilingual programs. I believe my recollection serves, it's about double those students who do not have access to bilingual programs. So, this particular... these particular lines in the budget address the dropout problem as well as a range of other issues that we have already debated. And in conclusion, I would just like to stress the point I made to the last speaker, that 103  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 last year this Assembly put a new mandate on school districts throughout the State of Illinois, and if we do not appropriate the money to enable them to their job properly, we are breaking faith with them. And I don't think we want to do that. That is why I'm making this Motion to restore these funds."

"The question is, 'Shall this item be restored to its original amount, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 60 voting 'aye', 50 voting "no", and none voting present'. Representative McCracken asks for a verification. Representative Bowman asks for a Poll of the Absentees. Poll the absentees, Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of those not voting. Deuchler. Laurino and Panayotovich. No further."

"Poll the affirmative, Mr. Clerk.

"Poll of the Affirmative. Berrios. Bowman. Brookins. Capparelli. Christensen. Cowlishaw. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. Daley. DeJaegher. DeLeo. Dunn. Farley. Flinn. Flowers. Giglio. Greiman. Hannig. Hartke. Hicks. Homer. Keane. Krska. Kulas. LeFlore. Leverenz. Levin. Martinez. Matijevich. Mautino. McGann. McNamara. McPike. Morrow. Nash. O'Connell. Pangle. Phelps. Preston. Rea. Rice. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Steczo. Stern. Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. Washington. White. Wolf. Anthony Young. Wyvetter Younge. Zwick. And Mr. Speaker."

"Representative McCracken. Representative McCracken." 104  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

"Thank you.

November 19, 1986 Representative DeLeo." "Representative DeLeo. Representative James DeLeo. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Wolf."

"Representative Sam Wolf is in the chamber."

"Representative O'Connell."

Speaker Breslin "Representative O'Connell. Representative John O'Connell. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him."

"Representative Farley."

"Representative Farley. Representative Bruce Farley. Excuse me. Representative O'Connell has returned to the chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting 'aye'. Representative Bruce Farley. The Gentleman is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Ronan."

"Representative Ronan. Representative Al Ronan. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call. Proceed."

"Okay. Representative Mulcahey."

"Representative Mulcahey is voting 'no'."

"Oh, he's "no". Well, then leave him on. Representative Flinn."

Speaker Breslin: "Representative Flinn. Is the Gentleman in the chamber."

"Representative Hicks."

"Representative Hicks is in the chamber."

"Representative Richmond."

"Representative Richmond is in the chamber."

"Nothing further."

"Representative Al Ronan has returned to the 105  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 chamber. Add him to the Roll Call voting 'aye'. Have all voted who wish? On this question there are... On this question there are 58 voting 'aye', 50 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. And this Motion, having failed to receive the Constitutional Majority, does not prevail. House Bill 3090, Representative Bowman, for Motion 4. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"I move to restore the following reduced items of appropriation on House Bill 3090, the reduction of the Governor notwithstanding."

"Representative Bowman."

"Just a moment. I'm getting my papers together from after that last vote. Thank you. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, Motion #4 also appears as Motion #6, sponsored by Representative Cullerton, and we are offering this proposal to restore funds for dropout and truant alternative programs. The reduction was on... of the order of 3,500,000 dollars. The problem, Ladies and Gentlemen, is that even though you may look at your staff analysis and say, well, the... with the reduction, we are funding at last year's levels, we are not funding at last year's levels, because what your analysis may not say is that the money that was provided last year was for partial year funding. So, in order to maintain programs at current levels, it would be necessary to restore these monies. And these programs are very, very important to the state. These programs enable us to reach out and reclaim students, who would otherwise fall through the cracks, who would otherwise walk away from school and who would otherwise be a drain on the public treasury because they would not have the skills, they would not have the credentials to get even minimal entry level positions. These programs have been proven to be very successful. Many of them are operated 106  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 outside of the school setting because many of these people who are coming back to school are coming back as adults, usually young adults, but they are older than the teenagers that you commonly see in high schools, and so it is sometimes useful to have these programs out in community settings. These... many of these programs are run by local community colleges and some by not-for-profit organizations. So, they appear in every part of the state. This is a statewide problem, and it is a serious problem. And this is... money is necessary, vitally necessary to make sure that the programs can limp along even though they will still be injured, that we will still not be funding at a full annualized level. Still, if we were to fail to override, we would virtually cut the funding on an annualized basis in half. And that would, indeed, cripple these programs wherever they are in the state. So, I implore you to restore this item, the reduction veto of the Governor notwithstanding."

"The Gentleman has moved to restore this item to its original amount. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, Shall this item be restored to its original amount, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Representative McCracken, one minute to explain your vote."

"Verification."

"60 votes are required for the passage of this Motion. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 60 voting 'aye', 47 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. Representative McCracken has requested a verification of the Roll Call. Representative Bowman requests a Poll of 107  143rd Legislative Day Bowman: the Absentees. "Yes, STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 Excuse me. Representative Bowman." could you recognize Representative Panayotovich to be recorded?"

"The Gentleman is recorded as voting 'aye' already."

"I mean, leave to be verified, I beg your pardon."

Speaker Breslin: "Okay. Representative Panayotovich... Panayotovich requests leave to be verified. Does he have leave? He does have leave. Poll the absentees. Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of those not voting. Brunsvold. DeJaegher. Homer. Leverenz. Mautino and Mulcahey. No further."

Speaker Breslin: "Representative Leverenz votes 'aye'. Poll the affirmative, Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of the Affirmative. Berrios. Bowman. Breslin. Brookins. Capparelli. Christensen. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. Daley. DeLeo. Didrickson. Dunn. Farley. Flinn. Flowers. Giglio. Greiman. Hannig. Hartke. Hicks. Keane. Kirkland. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. LeFlore. Leverenz. Levin. Martinez. Matijevich. McGann. McNamara. McPike. Morrow. Nash. O'Connell. Panayotovich. Pangle. Phelps. Preston. Rea. Rice. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Steczo. Stern. Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. Washington. White. Wolf. Anthony Young. Wyvetter. Younge. Zwick and Mr. Speaker."

"Do you have any questions of the Affirmative Roll, Mr. McCracken?"

"Yes, your Honor. Yes, Madam Speaker."

"Excuse me. Representative Ronan asks leave to be verified. Does he have leave? He has leave. Proceed, excuse me."

"Representative Giglio." 108  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"Representative Giglio. Representative Frank Giglio. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? Frank Giglio. The Gentleman is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Mulcahey."

"Representative Mulcahey is not recorded as voting."

"Oh, I'm sorry. Representative O'Connell."

"Representative O'Connell is in the chamber."

"Representative Levin."

"Representative Levin. Representative Ellis Levin. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? The Gentleman is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative White."

"Representative White is in the chamber. Representative Nash asks leave to be verified. The Gentleman has leave."

"Representative DeLeo."

"Representative DeLeo. Representative James DeLeo. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Christensen."

"Repre... Excuse me, Representative Christensen is in the chamber. Representative Mautino asks to be recorded as voting 'aye'. Vote the Gentleman 'aye'. Representative Brunsvold asks to be recorded as voting 'aye'. Vote the Gentleman 'aye'."

"It's better now than later, I guess. Representative Laurino."

"Representative Laurino. Representative Bill Laurino. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Richmond." 109  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"Representative Richmond. Bruce Richmond. Is Representative Bruce Richmond in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Nothing further."

"On this question there are 58 voting 'aye", 47 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. And the Motion fails to receive the Constitutional Majority and thus the House does not restore the item. House Bill 3093, Motion 5, by Representative Bowman. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"I move to restore the following reduced items of the appropriation of House Bill 3090, the reduction of the Governor notwithstanding."

"Representative Bowman."

"Thank you, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This particular line item relates to gifted education. The original appropriated amount was 9,000,000 dollars. The Governor cut that by 2.7 million dollars. At the same time, we appropriated a very large amount of money, millions of dollars, for the Math-Science Academy in Aurora. Now, the Math-Science Academy is training some very gifted students, but the annual cost per student of that one facility is 10, 20, 30 times what it costs to provide enrichment through gifted programs throughout the State of Illinois through this line item. Now, I detect a growing feeling within this House that we ought to do more for our gifted pupils. I believe that is the motivation that led many of us to support the Math-Science Academy. We have also considered programs for enrichment for students who are gifted in the arts, programs for students who are gifted in vocational fields such as agriculture, but the gifted programs that this line item refers to are the basic work horse gifted programs. These are the basic programs, Ladies and Gentlemen, that virtually every school 110  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 district in the state has. These are the work horse programs, and I suggest to you that... that if you want to support talented gifted students, that this line item cannot be neglected and that we must override and restore these funds. I urge you to do so."

"Representative Bowman moves to restore funds Harris: reduced by the Governor's amendatory veto. Is there any discussion? Hearing no discussion, the question is... Excuse me, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Harris, on the Motion." "Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"The Gentleman will yield for a question."

"Representative, what sort of programs are funded by these dollars that would be restored?"

"Well, it varies from district to district, but basically, these are enrichment programs for students who show particular talent in certain fields, but the emphasis given to... by field and so forth does vary with school districts. I don't... I think that every legislative district in this state has gifted programs contained within it."

"You mentioned earlier... Yes, I believe they do, I think you're right. You mentioned earlier... you made some reference to the Math and Science Academy. Are any of these dollars targeted for the Math and Science Academy?"

"No, Representative Harris. The point that I was trying to make was that we have spent many times this amount on the Math-Science Academy, and in this supplemental budget that I keep hearing everyone refer to, we will be, in all likelihood, spending many millions more dollars. The point that I was trying to make is that the money that we spend on the Math/Science Academy costs on the order of a 111  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 thousand dollars per pupil, whereas these programs are much more cost effective."

"I understand. Thank you very much."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Didrickson."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield for a question, please?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Bowman, is this increase nine million... up to 9,709,000 dollars? Is that what we're talking about for gifted education in the State of Illinois?"

"Yes, Ma'am."

"Do you recall when the Gifted Education Program started in Illinois. Was it '67, '68?"

"No, I... I cannot verify that, but it sounds very likely. I would tend to agree with you, but I can't verify that."

"I'm going to make a statement, and I was hoping that perhaps you could support it. I'm not 100 percent certain of the figures that I'm going to say, but I'm darned close, and back in the late 50's, we started the Gifted Education Program in the State of Illinois, Ladies and Gentlemen, and we funded it on a biennium for about 6,000,000 dollars. The following year, we moved it up to 6,000,000 dollars a year, and we have done very little, very little for the brightest minds in the State of Illinois, for the gifted education programs in this state, and I think it's a shame. I... it was of those strong reasons that I was an opponent to the Math-Science Academy. We now have the Math-Science Academy, I'll support that, but I expect and I would hope that the rest of the Membership on this floor would also recognize that the gifted education programs in the State of Illinois and your schools ought to be funded 112  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 appropriately. This will appropriately fund gifted education, and I hope that you will follow Representative Bowman's league."

"The Lady from DuPage, Representative Cowlishaw."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would certainly be remiss if I did not stand in the strongest possible support of Representative Bowman's Motion."

"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Stephens."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Members of the House. You know, the amount of money that we put into a gifted program does not necessarily dictate the value of that program. The very fact that we have these programs in most of the districts throughout the state is value enough. We are funding these at a level adequate enough to continue the programs. Each of the districts in my legislative district, all the school districts have a gifted program. They're working fine. Sure, if we send them more money, they can spend it, but this is the year where we have to watch our budget. We have to have some constraints. We're not taking these programs away. We're not cheating the gifted. We're giving them an advantage that they deserve, but we cannot afford to spend every dime that comes across the desk here and just because we think it might be a good cause. I think that we are doing what we can for the gifted children of Illinois, and we've given them enough money this year, possibly next year. With increased growth, we can come back."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. In contrast to the most 113  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 recent speaker on the other side, yeah, we can give money to what we think is a good cause, because if you don't give it to this program now, you're going to be faced with giving it to some other supplemental later. So, I think if we give all this money out to the Governor's first cause, which is education, then we don't have to argue about whose supplemental is going to get funded later. I would encourage an 'aye' vote and join the Gentleman for this Motion and then we can do away with half of our appropriations meeting in the month of December."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hoffman."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. The gifted program was started in the State of Illinois with the idea that the state money would be seed money. In other words, it would be money to get the program started and the local school districts would see the value of the gifted program and would put appropriate resources, appropriate local resources into the matching program. We gradually reduced the state appropriation down in the early 70's, and then it... when it became obvious to people interested in gifted education that, in fact, the seed money concept wasn't going to work from their point of view, that local school districts would not support the gifted program to the degree that they had hoped they would. They then began to come to us to increase that appropriation, which we have done. Again, we're faced with a situation where we have limited resources. We have to make some very difficult decisions about how we ought to use the limited resources that we have available. And I... you know, I recognized the comments made by the previous speaker in terms of if we don't spend it here, we will spend it somewhere else. I would suggest to you that there are limited resources 114  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 available. We are already below the line where I think we all agree that we should be in terms of an adequate balance, and 2,000,000 dollars here, 10,000,000 there and 14,000,000 there, regardless of the value of the program, reduces any resources that we may have available. To compare what we're doing at the Math-Science academy as to what's going in other gifted... what's going in gifted programs within school districts is apples and oranges. The Math-Science academy is a total immersion residential program. Most gifted programs that run in school districts are what we call pullout programs where you pull somebody out of their regular classroom situation for a particular period of time. I'm not saying they're not valuable, that's not the point. I'm saying, we don't have the resources available to support these programs, and the Governor had to make a draw, albeit a difficult one. This is not an easy position for me to take personally, but I think it's a responsible position, and I rise in opposition to this Motion."

"The Gentleman from Saline, Representative

Phelps. Phelps: "Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in support of the Gentleman's Motion. This program is one of the major reasons why a lot of us lack supporting the education reform last year, and I would really hate to see lot of the credibility that we put into one of the most historical moves that this Body has made toward education suffer. And I would like for all of us to look at it very closely and hope we can support such a valuable resource as our gifted people. There lies a cure for cancer, new technologies for heart disease. Those are the people we need to give a fair shot."

"The Gentleman from Marion, Representative 115  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 Friedrich."

"All during the campaign, there were a lot of speeches made, say, "Well, here goes Jim Thompson again, promising no tax raise and he'll just wait until after the election to do it." I will tell you if you keep overriding vetoes and asking for 10,000,000 here and 10,000,000 there, there will have to be a tax increase, but I would remind you, Jim Thompson can't raise taxes at all. It has to be done right here in the General Assembly. Now, if you're going to keep on voting to override these vetoes and spending money, get ready in January to start voting for a tax increase and you have the onus of voting for it, not Jim Thompson. You will have put him in the box where he's going to have to have more money to run the state. All these causes are good causes. I can't quarrel with that, but the point is, there is not enough money available with the present revenues to finance these extra items that you're talking about. So, just remember the buck stops here, right here in this House in January. If you want to have to vote for a tax increase, just keep on voting for the override."

"The Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite."

"Madam Speaker and Members of the House, about three years ago, we passed a Resolution directing the State Board of Education to conduct a study of the feasibility of the Math-Science Academy and to tell us whether or not we should take that action within the State of Illinois. That study indicated that, in fact, it was feasible for us to have a Math-Science Academy, but it also listed about 20 other things that we needed to do in state-wide programs if we were, in fact, going to have a program that gave all of our gifted children the advantages they should have. What we have done is to do an end run around that report, and we 116  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 have implemented one portion of it without following up on the other portion of the recommendations of that very good study. If we are, in fact, expecting to take advantage of the wealth we have in our children who are gifted, then we have to be able to invest a small amount of additional money in our school systems so that those children can have the incentive and the advantages that they need to have to fully develop to their highest potential. We have, in fact, identified an increasing number of children in the gifted category who are qualified for these services, but we are denying, unless we increase the funding to our local schools, the ability for our local schools to respond and provide programming for those children. This is an investment in the future if there ever was one. It is giving a little bit of help so that these students will be stimulated, will stay in our school systems and will be productive citizens who go out and help the State of Illinois become the great state that it can be. This is only a very small investment, and it is equity so that those children who do not go to the Math-Science Academy can have a little bit of the advantage as well. I urge your support of this Motion."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Preston."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in support of the Gentleman's Motion, and I urge everyone in this room to vote in support of it. You can do so without any fear of a conflict of interest, because I have a suspicion that no one in this room will be eligible to participate in any program for the gifted."

"Representative Bowman to close."

"Just in the nick of time. Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I believe we've had a 117  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 good debate on this. I would like to affirm that the funding for this program has been stagnant over the last several years. We have essentially turned our backs on this program over the last several years. The reason the seed money concept alluded to by the Gentleman from DuPage didn't work and didn't take off was because, as we all know, the state has not been doing an adequate job of funding education in any area, and we have progressively crowded the local 'school districts into a corner so that they are, in many cases, unable to do some of the very basic things that they need to do, let alone provide for enriched programs such as this. So, it's been our fault, Ladies and Gentlemen, that we've come to this point. It has been our fault that we've crowded those school districts into the corner. It has been our fault that we have not funded the gifted programs at an adequate level. It has been our fault that we have turned to more glamorous pursuits perhaps, with the Math-Science Academy, and I urge all of you now to redeem the moment and to say to our citizens in this state that yes, we do care about gifted pupils throughout the state, not just the ones that are fortunate enough to go to the residential Math-Science Academy, but the ones who have to stay at home, who have to remain behind in their own local school districts. Let's give those local school districts the means of enriching their education and restore these funds. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall this item be restored to its original amount, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no". Voting is open. 60 votes are required for the passage of this Motion. Have all voted who wish? The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Kulas, one minute to explain your vote." 118  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, November 19, 1986 Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I commend the Members of this august Body who voted against bilingual education and who are voting against this appropriate... reduction also, because they believe in the fiscal integrity, but those of you who believe that there is money available for the gifted, oh, we can make money for that, but we can't make money available for the poor Puerto Ricans, the Mexicans, the Vietnamese, the poor immigrants. We don't have money for that, but we do have money for the gifted children. Shame on you."

"Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. Excuse me. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Berrios, one minute to explain your vote."

"I just want to get up and thank Myron and the other people who did vote for the Bilingual Education Program being funded fully. During the last Session, we passed several Bills to help the Hispanic community get off their feet, to help them with the Hispanic dropout which is so high in our community that kids in our community don't get a chance to participate in the Gifted Children's Program. That is why I will watch every Bill up there from here on out, and I will scrutinize where the money is going in certain programs. I have been in this Legislature three years, and I have voted for specific programs for a lot of individuals in this Assembly, but when this Assembly turns its back on the Hispanic community, I can also stand up here and turn my back on a lot of other things. Thank you."

"On this question, there are 79 voting 'aye", 30 voting "no", and 1 voting "present". This Motion, having received the Constitutional Majority, thus prevails, and the House restores the item that was reduced. House Bill 3090, Motion #6, by Representative Cullerton. Is 119  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 Representative Cullerton here? Out of the record. House Bill 3191, Representative Brookins. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"House Bill 3191. "I move that the following items of House Bill 3191 "do pass," the veto of the Governor notwithstanding."

"Representative Brookins."

"Thank you, Madam Chairman... Madam Speaker. This program was initiated in 1979 by Reverend Harold E. Bailey and under the guidance of Judge Eugene R. Pincham. It's the first program of this kind. The program was designed to rehabilitate individuals placed on probation, through education. And, since 80 percent of these individuals placed on probation lack high school education, the program includes psychological evaluations, individual tutoring, seminars, workshops and basic electronics. Cultural events and a number of other designated activities will provide the probationers with a sense of direction. The Xerox Corporation has provided volunteers job opportunities and $40,000 in equipment to keep these individuals off the streets and prepare them for the work force. Isn't it about time we evaluate our priorities? Here's a program that is proven an effective rehabilitation... rehabilitative of probationers, through personal counseling, education and job instructions. The progam has given people a fighting chance to become law abiding citizens, functioning members of society. I ask you to join me in overriding the Governor's veto so we can keep an exceptional program operating. I ask for a favorable vote."

"The Gentleman has moved to override the Governor's item veto. And on that question, the Gentleman from Adams, Representative Mays. Representative Mays." 120  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"Would the Gentleman yield for a question, please?"

"He wil1."

"Did we... Did we pass the substantive language for this appropriations Bill last year?"

"Yes, we passed substantive language. It was passed into law, and since that time, I'd like to report that over 110 clients are now functioning in this program, which is housed at Olive Harvey College."

"Thank you very much."

"The Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."

"Madam Speaker, Members of the House, there are some who are saying, well, this is just a Chicago issue that we ought to vote against it because of Chicago. For those of you who haven't looked lately, most of our prisons are entirely filled with those same Chicago people, and I think that's a tragedy. This is an attempt to deal with a problem that is attempting to get people in a mode of life that they don't go into our social service agencies, that they don't end up in prison, by providing a work ethic kind of a program, a vocational skills program which is attempting to get started right in the very heart of our state that has a lot of social problems. Now, you can vote "no" on it if you want to, but I certainly think if we have any courage and any desire to help shift the trend that we have in our social problems as well as the continued increase in our correctional population. This is the way to start, and I would hope that you would support it to the tune of 250,000 bucks."

"Representative Brookins to... excuse me. The Gentlemen from Cook, Representative... Representative Brookins to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Let me say that we've heard 121  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 that programs to educate people, to teach them to read and write, to teach them the basic skills, are better than teaching people to rake leaves. This is not one of them Bills that will teach people only to rake leaves. It will give them a chance at returning to society, as living in society and becoming useful citizens. I'd like you to also know that the recidivism rate SO far realized in this program is less than three percent, less than three percent. This is not just a program that will ask people to do things and to go to school and to learn, this is a program that mandates them to do this, and if they do not do this, they do go to jail. There is a return to their sentence, so I ask for a favorable vote. Thank you."

"The question is, 'Shall this item pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman, one minute to explain your vote."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is indeed, as Representative Brookins suggested, a very important program because one of the most difficult aspects of having committed a crime and having something like that on your record is being able to get a job, and the problem is doubly compounded if you don't have adequate skills. I think the program that Representative Brookins has put together is one that is directed at that... that problem, breaking down these barriers so that people who have had problems with the law can go straight, can get the skills they need and do the job. Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz. One minute to explain your vote."

"I would ask for the Republicans and those Democrats voting red or not voting yet, to get aboard this program. 122  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 It works. It's a minor amount of funding. Everybody keeps asking, "Has the substantive Bill passed yet?", as an excuse to take a duck on providing the money for a program. I believe that this is one of the most worthwhile programs that we have in the entire state, and I would ask for a few more 'aye' votes. Representative Zwick."

"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken, one minute to explain your vote."

"Madam Speaker, legislation passed in the recent past - couldn't think of a better way to put it - was recently to the effect that the state took over the probation function, which traditionally had been administered at the county level, also funded by the county. That cost to the state is in the millions of dollars. That has only recently been implemented. maybe two or three years. Representative Matijevich was the Sponsor of that legislation. So, within the space of a few years, the state has undertaken what, for hundreds of years or a hundred years, a hundred and fifty years, has been the function of the counties. Now, all of a sudden, we want to send over to the city colleges of Chicago, $250,000 to administer another probation program. I certainly respect the good intentions of the Sponsor. I feel, however, that it is not money well spent, especially at a time when, again, our resources are scarce. It may not be a lot of money, but I think the point is that the state is already in the probation business to the tune of millions and millions of dollars, and to divert this to another system entirely is something that we should be not in favor of at this time, and I ask for a 'no' vote."

"This Motion requires 71 votes to pass. Representative Brookins, one minute to explain your vote."

"Yes, the previous speaker is correct. We've spent to 123  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 the tune of $66,000,000 in probation money that is not working. Those probationers do not have to do anything but make a phone call from anywhere in the state and say, "Yeah, I'm here." I'm mandating people to go to school. I'm mandating people to get training and education so that they will not be returned. The recidivism rate for the Probation Department in the State of Illinois and in the County of Cook is atrocious. It's over 50 percent. Putting people on probation is a joke. In this program, it is not a joke. I need 6 more votes up there, and I'm asking for your help in passing this Bill, something that will save us money in the near future, something that is working. That's what we're talking about."

"Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 67 voting 'aye', 42 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. Representative Parke, for what reason do you seek recognition?"

"No, thank you."

"Representative Brookins, for what reason do you seek recognition?"

"Can I have a Poll of the Absentees?"

"Representative Brookins polls the absentees, Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of those not voting. DeJaegher. Giglio. McAuliffe. And Wait."

"Representative Giglio votes 'aye'. This Motion requires 71 votes for passage. There are 68 voting 'aye', 42 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. The Motion, having failed to receive the required Three-Fifths Majority Vote, fails. House Bill 3191, Representative Virginia Frederick, Motion 2. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"I move that the following items on House Bill 3191 'do pass,' the veto of the Governor notwithstanding." 124  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"Representative Frederick."

"Madam Speaker, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I move that the House override the Governor's veto of House Bill 3191, pages four and five, lines 31 through 35 and one through three, which restore $375,000 as a loan to Warren Township High School for the purpose of transporting an entire student body - to another facility. I would ask for your affirmative vote."

"The Lady has moved to restore.. or rather, to override the Governor's item veto on House Bill 3191. And on that question, the Gentleman from Lake, Representative Matijevich."

"Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I join my colleague, Representative Frederick, in this item veto override. During the campaign, early in the campaign, the Governor incurred some wrath from the people in the Warren Township High School community, and I heard him on the radio, and I think he was misinformed by his staff that this was an outright grant, because I heard him on the radio saying that. And in fact, I believe his staff was misinformed right up until today, because Virginia Frederick came to my desk and said that the staff was under the impression that this was a grant. It is a payback because of a fire that we had in Warren Township High School, and they are using a... a high school in Lake Forest, transporting students there. The way it is written, it appears as though it's a grant, except it refers to the Public Act, and in that Public Act, it does refer to the fact that this is going to be paid back. Because of that, and I think now the Governor's people are aware that this isn't a grant, I think that we can all support it with conscience, so I would urge the Membership on this side of the aisle to join Virginia Frederick in 125  143rd Legislative Day this Motion." STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think the previous two speakers have defined the issue very well. It is a loan, not a grant. He worked very hard to get this into the legislation last year, and I was quite shocked when I saw the... the item veto. I'm sure it was a mistake, and so, I would hope we would all join together in rectifying this mistake and vote to override this particular veto."

"The Gentleman from McHenry, Representative Klemm, on the Motion."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I, again, just stand to rise to support the Lady in her Amendment. This is a loan, and I think that's the difference between what we've been talking about all day long on some of the grants and some of the outright gifts that the State of Illinois is asked to make many times. I think a school district, and having been active in school districts before, had a tragic experience with a fire. We're trying to give them a helping hand. They want to pay it back. They have already paid back some of the loans that we've given and helped them. I think this is a continuation to get them back on their feet, help the children in that area, and I stand in support of it."

"Representative Frederick to close... to close."

"Yes, thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I just urge your affirmative vote."

"The question is, 'Shall this item pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This Motion requires 71 votes to pass. Have all voted who 126  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 110 voting 'aye", none voting 'no", and 1 voting 'present'. And this Motion, having received the required Three-Fifths Majority, prevails, and this item is declared passed, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding. Matijevich, Motion 3. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"I move to restore the following reduced items of appropriations in House Bill 3191, the reduction of the Governor notwithstanding."

"Representative Matijevich."

"Yes, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'd like to ask leave that that Motion be amended. It is not a restoration, it is an item veto, and I would ask leave that this Motion be an override of an item veto. And... And I move on that Motion, Madam Speaker. This is an... a modest amount in General Revenue Fund of $33,334 from the GRF, and $16,666 payable from the State's Attorney's Prosecutor's County Fund. This amount of money, I was informed in a phone call from the State's Attorney Appellate Prosecutor's Office, that it is necessary if they don't have this... these monies, they cannot provide the appellate service under the Illinois Public Labor Relations Act. So, in effect, if we don't provide these monies, they cannot provide the service that we mandate that they do provide. So, I would urge the Members to give me the necessary 71 votes... I think it's 71. Yeah, I... I had leave to change the Calendar because it is an item... Yeah, they're all wondering now. My information is that it's... looking at the veto, it's an item veto."

"Representative Matijevich has asked leave to change the Calendar to note that this is an item veto that he wishes to override on. Knowing that, of course, it 127  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 takes more votes to override, it will require 71 votes to override on this item. Is there any discussion? First of all, does the Gentleman have leave for that change? Hearing no objection, the Gentleman has leave. Second of all, is there any discussion on the Motion to override the item veto? Seeing no discussion, the question is, "Shall... Excuse me. Representative Hoffman, on the Motion."

"The total amount of this line item was $63,000?"

"Just... Just a little above 50,000 - 33,334 in General Revenue Funds and 16,666 from the... payable from the State's Attorney's Prosecutor's County Fund."

"Okay. And the rationale for the override, from your point of view, is what, again, please?"

"The rationale I received from a phone call from 'Augie Yaunt' from the... the State's Attorney's Appellate Prosecutor's Office is that if they don't have these funds, they cannot provide the service to... under the Illinois Public Labor Relations Act. So, they need the money, or else they just can't do the... do the work."

"Thank you."

"Representative Matijevich to close."

"I'd appreciate 71 votes."

"The question is, Shall this item pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding? All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Calendar announcement."

"Supplemental Calendar #1 is now being distributed."

"Have all voted who wish? This Motion requires 71 votes to pass. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 60... there are 71 voting 'aye', 39 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. And this Motion, having received the required Three-Fifths Majority, 128  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 prevails, and this item is declared passed, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding. Rea. on Motion 4. Out of the record. House Bill 3191, Representative House Bill 3191, Representative Phelps and Rea. Motion 5. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"I move that the following items of House Bill 3191 'do pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding.'"

"Representative Phelps."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I move to override the line item veto of $200,000 that would go for creating the Office of Coal Marketing within the Energy, Environment and Natural Resource Department. Already, in the Spring Session, the Department was very supportive and saw the need for marketing of coal, as we did, and realizing that the... the void was there in the state agencies with a lack of supporting and promoting of our own Illinois coal - high sulfur coal - and explaining to those different entities and industries that would... might be interested in coming in and the technologies that are available and getting the high sulfur coal out, the new research that has been provided, the new technology to convince people to come into this state, industry to actually arrive here and have the help that we have available for them. So, the 200,000 was an appropriation line item to make that coal marketing office actually for the purpose it was designed. The substantive language Bill was signed by the Governor. We asked for 200,000 to go with it to give it meaning. So, we ask for your support to override the veto."

"The Gentleman has moved to pass this item, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding. And on that question, is there any discussion? There being no further discussion, the question is, Shall this item pass, the 129  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 veto of the Governor notwithstanding?" All those in favor vote 'aye, all those opposed vote 'no. Voting is open. This Motion requires 71 votes to pass. Have all voted who wish? Representative Rea, one minute to explain your vote."

"Yes, Madam Speaker, in explaining my vote, I'd like to explain how important this is to the State of Illinois. We have promoted other resources, and more recently, the Department of Energy and Natural Resouces have worked with the Mississippi Valley Coal Exporting Council and the New Orleans port in terms of exporting coal to other countries and... as well as marketing coal to other states. We are making tremendous efforts forward, but we need these monies for the Department of Energy and Natural Resources, which does have the... the type of expertise in order to further this cause. This is... is very important to... since coal has been in a slump, and in many of our counties, we have an unemployment of 16, 17, 18 percent when it should be much less than that, just because we have not been able to market the coal effectively. This would be a big boost to the entire economy of the State of Illinois, and I would ask for some more green votes."

"Representative McCracken, one minute to explain your vote.

"Seek a verification, Ma'am."

"The Gentleman is seeking a verification. Everyone should vote their own switch. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 70 voting 'aye', 37 voting 'no', and 1 voting 'present'. Representative Nelson Rice votes 'aye'. Representative Phelps requests a Poll of the Absentees."

"Poll of the Absentees."

"Poll the absentees, Mr. Clerk." 130  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"Poll of those not voting. Virginia Frederick. Laurino. Ryder. And Wait. No further."

"On this question, there are 71 voting 'aye', 37 voting 'no', and 1 voting 'present'. Representative McCracken has requested a verification. Would you poll the affirmative, Mr. Clerk?"

"Poll of the Affirmative. Berrios. Bowman. Breslin. Brookins. Brunsvold. Capparelli. Christensen. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. Daley. DeJaegher. DeLeo. Dunn. Farley. Flinn. Flowers. Giglio. Goforth. Greiman. Hannig. Hartke. Hasara. Hensel. Hicks. Homer. Keane. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. Leverenz. Levin. Martinez. Matijevich. Mautino. Mays. McAuliffe. McGann. McNamara. McPike. Morrow. Mulcahey. Nash. O'Connell. Olson. Panayotovich. Pangle. Phelps. Preston. Rea. Rice. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Slater. Stange. Steczo. Stephens. Stern. Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. Washington. White. Wolf. Anthony Young. Wyvetter Younge. And Mr. Speaker."

"Representative White asks leave to be verified, Mr. McCracken. Leave is granted. Do you have any questions of the Affirmative Roll?"

"Representative DeLeo."

"Representative DeLeo. Representative Jim DeLeo. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Panayotovich."

"Representative Panayotovich. Sam Panayotovich. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him."

"Representative Levin."

"Representative Levin. Ellis Levin. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the 131  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day Roll Call."

"Representative Flinn."

"Representative Flinn. Flinn. The Gentleman is not in the from the Roll Call."

"Representative Richmond."

"Representative Richmond. Richmond. The Gentleman is not in him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Laurino."

"Representative Laurino. November 19, 1986 Representative Monroe chamber. Remove him Representative Bruce the chamber. Remove Bill Laurino. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call. Excuse me. Laurino was not voting."

"I'm sorry. Representative Keane."

"Representative Keane. Keane. The Gentleman is not in the chamber. Representative Jim Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Pangle."

"Representative Pangle. Representative Pangle is in the chamber."

"Nothing further."

"On this question, there are 65 voting 'aye", 37 voting 'no', and 1 voting "present". And this Motion, having failed to receive the required Three-Fifths Majority, fails. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are now going to go to page six on our Calendar - Reduction Veto Motions. The first Motion. Out of the record. House Bill 2997, Representative Ryder, Motion #1. the Gentleman in the chamber? Bill 2997, Motion #2, by Representative Hannig? Out of 2997, Representative Bowman. Representative Ryder. Is Out of the record. House Representative Hannig. the record. House Bill Representative Bowman. Out of the record. House Bill 2997. Again, Representative 132  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day Ryder. Motion #4. November 19, 1986 The Gentleman is not in the chamber. Out of the record. House Bill 3091, Representative Steczo, Motion #1. Read the Motion, Mr. Clerk."

"I move to restore the following reduced items of appropriations in House Bill 3091."

"Representative Steczo."

"Thank you. Madam Speaker and Members of the House. The Motion to restore funds on House Bill 3091 seeks to restore $488,000 in funding that the Governor reduced from the special education summer school program. I think it's important that the Members of the House understand the importance of having a... an adequately funded special education summer school program. We all know that the Federal Government and the State Government have committed ourselves to special education programming, and we spend a lot of dollars for special education programming. However, if the pupils and the students that partake in the special education summer programming cannot receive those services, there is a good probability that during the course of the summer, they may regress, and it will take far more money and it will take a lot longer to have those students catch up once the normal school year would start the next September. I guess this is one of those kind of Bills where you can almost play like the Fram Filter man. You either pay me now or you pay me later. And we think that the $488,000 cut was much too steep, and the Governor should have left the line item intact. What the Governor did do, he reduced the amount of funding from 3.6 million dollars to 3.1 million dollars, and we've heard very, very often this afternoon how the Governor had reduced certain funding but left funding above the previous year's level. I should let everybody in this House know that the funding for the previous year for summer school special education 133  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 was 3.1 million dollars, so the cut that the Governor provided for in House Bill 3091 actually, then, is less money than this program received the year before. It's important for us to provide adequate summer school services to special education children. It's important for us to restore this money so they will be able to continue the education during the course of those summers and not regress. And I would, Madam Speaker, move that the House do restore the... the funding in House Bill 3091."

"The Gentleman has moved to restore items vetoed in House Bill 3091. And on that question, the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative Hoffman. While you are still talking, the Chair will take the liberty of introducing a former Speaker of the House, George Ryan. Welcome. Representative Hoffman."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I'd like to ask the Sponsor a couple of questions. Number one, is this a reimbursable program? Is this a reimbursable program?"

"Representative... Representative Steczo will respond to a question. The question is, 'Is this a reimbursable program?'"

"Madam Speaker, I'm checking with my staff right now. Does he want to go to question number two?"

"Well, the... the question... the second question hinged upon... on that question, because if it's a reimbursable... if we say it's a reimbursable program, then this is the program that has already been funded and we are reimbursing that program, and I'm not sure but what this amount that was appropriated might have covered the expenditures. If it is a prospective program, then it is a program that has not taken place at this point in time, and when that program is put in place, then this reduced level 134  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 would have to be taken into consideration when they put the program into effect."

"While the Gentleman is looking up the answer to that question, the Chair will also take the liberty of introducing a former Member, Senator Doris Karpiel. Welcome, Senator. Representative Steczo, in answer to the questions posed."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. In response to the Gentleman's question, yes, this a reimbursable program, but number two, the cost of the program or the money that the state is providing in no way covers the cost of that program. So, the additional funding that... that we could... that we would be providing would... would, in essence, allow the state to further reimburse those school districts that incur the expense... that have incurred the expense, I should say."

"Representative Hoffman."

"Fine, thank you. On the basis of that answer, then, the fact is that it is a reimbursable program and that we are... are reimbursing it on a proportional basis, and what this amendatoгу veto... reduction veto did was reduce to some degrees the level of the... of the state funding, and I appreciate those comments and that clarification. I would just raise the... the same concern that I've had before, and that is that we do not have finite resources and... or that our resources are finite, and we really can't afford to expend any more... any more funds. We've already done our duty, if you will, today, with the amount of... of overrides that we've already passed. And so, I'd stand in all due respect to the... to the program and more particularly to the Sponsor, in opposition to his Motion."

"Representative Steczo to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. I 135  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 appreciate the Gentleman's kind remarks about the Sponsor. I only hope that he would reiterate with a... with a green vote on this Motion. The... The fact is, though, that we all know in this General Assembly, and we've heard it from local school officials how expensive it is to conduct special education programs. The year before, the state expended 3.3 million dollars for special education summer school. In no way... In no way does that come close to meeting the cost of... that is borne by local school districts to conduct that program. So, we are basically and in essence telling that we will give you a smidgeon as reimbursement for that. So, what we've done to them this year, we haven't even come back to the level that we appropriated the year before. We have said, "We're going to penalize you $200,000 and provide you $200,000 under what we gave you the year before. This is probably one of the only... one of the only education programs where that's happened. And who has it happened to? Those people that can least afford to have it happen to them. I would say, Madam Speaker, out of a sense of decency, allow us to be able to provide this... this meager sum of $488,000 back to those local school districts. It will make a difference in the special... in the special education program. I would ask for an 'aye vote."

"The question is, 'Shall this item be restored to its original amount, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no". Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? This Motion requires 60 votes to pass. Have all voted who wish? Representative McCracken requests a verification. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 63 voting 'aye', 45 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. 136  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 Representative Steczo asks for a Poll of the Absentees. Poll the absentees, Mr. Clerk."

"Poll of those not voting. Dwight Friedrich. Goforth. Keane. McAuliffe. And Ryder."

"Poll of the Affirmative, please."

"Poll of the Affirmative. Berrios. Bowman. Brookins. Brunsvold. Capparelli. Christensen. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. Daley. DeJaegher. DeLeo. Dunn. Farley. Flinn. Flowers. Giglio. Greiman. Hannig. Hartke. Hasara. Hicks. Homer. Johnson. Krska. Kulas. Laurino. LeFlore. Leverenz. Levin. Martinez. Matijevich. Mautino. McGann. McNamara. McPike. Morrow. Mulcahey. Nash. O'Connell. Panayotovich. Pangle. Phelps. Preston. Rea. Rice. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Steczo. Stern. Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. Washington. White. Wolf. Anthony Young. Hyvetter Younge. And Mr. Speaker."

"Representative Johnson, do you seek recognition?"

"Please switch my vote from 'yes' to 'no'."

"Change Representative Johnson from 'yes' to 'no'. Mr. McCracken, do you have any questions of the Affirmative Roll?"

"Yes, Madam Speaker. Representative Flinn."

"Representative Flinn. Honroe Flinn. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Richmond."

"Representative Richmond. Representative Bruce Richmond. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Keane."

"Representative Keane is not voting." 137  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"I'm sorry. Representative Ronan."

"Representative Ronan. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? Representative Al Ronan. The Gentleman is not in the chamber. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Dunn."

"Representative Dunn. Representative John Dunn. John Dunn. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Krska."

"Representative Krska is in the chamber."

"Representative Capparelli."

"Representative Capparelli. Representative Ralph Capparelli. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Currie."

"Representative Currie is in her chair."

"Representative Levin."

"Representative Levin. Ellis Levin. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Representative Panayotovich."

"Representative Panayotovich. Sam Panayotovich. Is the Gentleman in the chamber? He is not. Remove him from the Roll Call."

"Nothing further."

"On this question, there are 55 voting 'aye', 46 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. And the Motion does not receive the required Constitutional Majority and does not prevail. Representative Bowman, we will go back to your House Bill 2997, if you wish. The Gentleman wishes. Read Motion #3, Mr. Clerk."

"House Bill 2997. "I move to restore the following reduced items of appropriations in House Bill 2997, the 138  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 reduction of the Governor notwithstanding."

"Representative Bowman."

"Madam Speaker, we seem to be losing our Membership, and this is an important item. There are several people I know who have a personal interest in this who are not on the floor. I gather that we will be in Session tomorrow. I would like to call this at a more propitious time."

"Take the Bill out of the record, Mr. Clerk. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are going to go to page 16 on your Calendar, Amendatory Veto Motions. House Bill 787, Representative Leverenz, Motion 2. Read the Motion, Ar. Clerk."

"House Bill 787. 'I move that House Bill 787 do pass', the Governor's specific recommendations for change notwithstanding.'"

"Representative Leverenz."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. It's my intent to override the veto... the amendatory veto of the Governor, who took the Bill and went in another direction totally with it, and substantively tried to write legislation all by himself. It's been done before, and in this case, I think it is not good. But, the original Bill provided for supplemental licenses to sell cars outside a particular area or market area or would have prevented licenses outside of a business area, a market for a car dealership, and what it was turned into is a Bill that provides for tent sales to be run by leasing companies of automobiles and the like, and did something completely different than what we originally wanted. We have passed the Bill before, and we can do it again. I'd entertain any questions that anyone might have on the Bill, and ask for your 'aye' vote to get 71 votes to override the Governor's veto. Even in the veto message, it has been substantially 139  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 changed to where, if we wanted to accept the veto, they'd have to have 71 votes also. So, I'd rather go back to the original Bill we had."

"Representative Leverenz moves to override the Governor's amendatory veto of House Bill 787. And on that question, is there any discussion? Is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, Shall the House override the Governor's amendatory veto of House Bill 787?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This Motion requires 71 votes to pass. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Berrios, one minute to explain your vote."

"You know, we called this Bill. This is a Bill that I carried last Session and that Representative Ronan has now. Representative Ronan was on the floor five minutes ago and would have spoken against the Bill. He... He is not here, and I thought out of courtesy that we should have waited. I didn't get out here soon enough, and I apologize."

"Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 90 voting 'aye', 17 voting 'no', and 1... Representative Shaw, do you change your vote to 'aye'? Representative Shaw votes from "no" to 'aye'. Representative McGann changes his vote from "no" to 'aye'. Representative Flowers changes her vote from 'no' to 'aye'. Representative White votes 'aye'. Representative Ralph Capparelli votes 'aye'. On this question, there are 95 voting 'aye', 14 voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the necessary... Representative Preston votes 'aye'. Representative Kubik votes 'aye'. There are, therefore, 97 voting 'aye', 13 voting 'no'. Representative Terzich votes 'aye'. There are 98 voting 'aye', 12 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. And this Bill, having received the 140  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 necessary vote, overrides the Governor's veto with the necessary Three-Fifths Majority Vote. House Bill 913, Representative McCracken. Motion #1. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"I move to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to House Bill 319... 913 in the manner and form as follows."

"Representative McCracken. Representative McCracken. Representative McCracken."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. House Bill 913 originally provided for the possibility of extended term sentences for certain felonies which... in which a homicide was involved. One of them was manslaughter which, by another Bill, has been changed to be known as second-degree murder. The amendatory veto makes that change in the language of this Bill, and I move to accept the amendatory veto."

"The Gentleman has moved to accept the Governor's amendatory veto on House Bill 913. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 913 pass in accepting the Governor's amendatory veto?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. 60 votes are required to accept the Governor's amendatory veto. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 105 voting 'aye', 3 voting 'no', and 2 voting 'present'. And the House does accept the Governor's amendatory veto of House Bill 913. And this Bill, having received the necessary Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. House Bill 3543, Representative Steczo. Motion #1. Do you wish to present that Motion at this time? It appears on page 17 on your Calendar. Out of the record. House Bill 3573, Representative Cullerton. Motion 141  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day #1. 00 you wish to present that Motion? the Motion." November 19, 1986 Mr. Clerk, read

"I move to accept the specific recommendations of the Governor as to House Bill 3573 in the manner and form as follows.."

"Representative Cullerton."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill was cosponsored by Representative Kirkland and myself to set up a pretrial service agency to provide the court with accurate background information of bond for people charged with regarding the setting criminal offenses and to further assist the court in supervision of compliance with certain terms and conditions people while that would have been imposed by the court on they're out on bond. I move to accept the Governor's amendatory veto. The Governor... This was accompanied by an appropriation Bill that the Governor vetoed. What I think we should do is to delay... accept the Governor's recommendation that we delay the effective date until the first day of the next fiscal year and perhaps consider the supplemental to get the program started possibility of a initially, and then next fiscal year, fund the program at the appropriate level. So, the Governor also limited the services that would be provided to felonies because of limited resources, and I think it sounds fair to start out the program having it apply to felonies, and then we'll see how it works, and we'll see whether or not the state could possibly fund some more if we had appropriate funds, maybe have it apply to misdemeanors as well. So, I would move to accept the Governor's amendatory veto."

"Representative Cullerton moves to accept the Governor's amendatory veto of House Bill 3573. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the 142  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day question is, 'Shall November 19, 1986 House Bill 3570... Excuse me, the Gentleman from Knox, Representative Hawkinson, on the Motion."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. This Bill is somewhat better, but it's still an unnecessary program. The Bill passed the House by only 1 vote last fall, 61 to 47. It's a program that's not needed. It won't be needed any more in a year from now. Probation officers, defense attorneys, public defenders already provide these services, and the information is certainly readily available downstate, and it will be another giant program that we're starting to foster here, and we'll find ourselves five years from now with another multi-million dollar program that's unnecessary. And for those reasons, I would urge a 'no' vote."

"Representative Cullerton to close."

"Yes, in response to Senator Hawkinson. Obviously, the Governor does not agree with him. If he felt that the Bill was not a worthwhile effort, he would have vetoed it, which he did not. He made some reasonable changes that limited it to felonies, and which delays the effective date until the next fiscal year. No money has been appropriated for this program, and if we so choose not to appropriate money, then it would not go into effect. That's a separate decision that we will make at the time. It... The services cannot be provided by public defenders or probation officers because they do not work for the court. This contemplates the court in determining how to... how to set bond. They have to have some background on people. This will, in many cases, aid the court in setting bond on people who are potentially dangerous, but because there's been no background search on them, they... that information is not brought to the attention of the Judge, and so he... 143  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 he sets a low bond. This is not someone... This is not an agency where they're going to be working for the defendant. They're going to be verifying certain statements that are made by the defendant say, that they indicated that they work at some facility and they have a job, and it turns out that they don't. Well, that information could be brought forward and given to the Judge and the bond would be set at a higher level. That's an example of how it doesn't always work in the favor of the defendant. And the argument, then, that Senator Hawkinson makes is that it would cost money. This is not an appropriation Bill. We can make that decision when the time comes. So, I urge your support in joining myself and Representative Kirkland in supporting our Bill by accepting the Governor's amendatory veto."

"The question is, 'Shall the House accept the Governor's amendatory veto of House Bill 3573?" All those in favor vote 'aye", all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. 60 votes are required for passage of this Bill as amended. Have all voted who wish? Representative Dunn wishes to vote "no". Record the Gentleman as 'no". Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 71 voting 'aye', 33 voting 'no', and 1 voting "present". And the House does accept the Governor's amendatory veto of House Bill 3573. And this Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are now going to Supplemental Calendar #1, under the Order of Reduction and Item Veto Motions, we are going to call all of those Motions that have not yet been worked on today. The first one on that Order of Business is House Bill 2989, Representative Leverenz. Motion #11. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill... read the Motion."

"Motion. I move that the following items of 144  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 House Bill 2989 do pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding."

"The board says 2988, Mr. Clerk. Representative Leverenz on House Bill 2989. Motion #11. Representative Leverenz on Motion #11. Would somebody turn on Representative Leverenz mike, please? Representative Leverenz."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The Motion is to restore a one million dollar amount, and the money goes to the University of Illinois to provide a cooperative extension service on people that are sick that is direct care payment, and I ask for 71 votes to override the Governor."

"The Gentleman has moved to override the Governor's item veto on House Bill 2989. And on that question, the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative, what is... I'm not familiar with this item. What is... What is the purpose that the funds are put to?"

"The University of Illinois takes what I guess you'd call... and I have been down at the hospital. Cook County Hospital's right across the street. They are referred over to the University of Illinois. The University of Illinois staff doctors, whatever, provide the direct care for indigent patients from Cook County Hospital."

"Is... Was this funded, or this particular line item funded in a previous year?"

"It was not. This is the first year."

"This is new? Okay."

"In terms of a program that we are funding, that's 145  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day correct."

"Okay. Thank you." November 19, 1986

"The question is, "Shall this item be restored to its original amount, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor?" All those in favor vote 'aye", all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. 71 votes are required for the passage of this Motion. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 50... there are 60 voting 'aye', 50 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. And this Motion fails. House Bill 2989, Representative Barnes. Motion 12. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

""I move that the following items of House Bill 2989 'do pass,' the veto of the Governor notwithstanding.""

"Representative Barnes."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I wish to restore $5,000 for the expenses incurred by municipal clerks and deputy clerks attending the Municipal Clerks' Training Institute, and it's something that affects all downstate. I would ask for a favorable Roll Call."

"The Lady has moved to restore items vetoed in House Bill 2989. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing no discussion, the question is, "Shall this item be restored to its original amount, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? This Motion requires 71 votes for passage. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 108 voting 'aye', 4 voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. And this Motion, having received the Constitutional Majority, prevails, and the House restores the items that 146  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 were previously reduced. House Bill 2989, Representative Dunn, on Motion #13. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"Motion. I move that the following items of House Bill 2989 'do pass,' the veto of the Governor notwithstanding."

"Out of the record. House Bill 2995, Representative Saltsman. Representative Saltsman on Motion #3. Read the Motion, Mr. Clerk."

"Motion. I move that the following items of House Bill 2995 'do pass,' the veto of the Governor notwithstanding."

"Representative Saltsman."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, this veto was made at the Governor's request because he said that this appropriation was a duplicate appropriation."

"Excuse me. Excuse me, Representative Saltsman. Representative Leverenz, for what reason do you rise?"

"Could somebody fix his microphone? He's got that squeaky, high voice. Give him a little bass instead of all the treble, or something. I mean, you're a nice guy. You ought to sound nice."

"Representative Saltsman, please proceed. You sound just fine."

"Thank you. Anyhow, on this veto in the Governor's statement, he said that this money was already paid to the Human Services Center in Peoria, Illinois. However, in 1986 and '87 budgets, the services have been performed by this agency for Medicaid people and mental health. The Bill hasn't been paid. It is not a duplicate payment. Former Senator Bloom was working on this at the time of his tragic accident, and when we had our problem in the Senate when this Amendment was attached, Representative' Leitch, Etheredge and Carroll worked on this, and they were the 147  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 ones who said that this should go into the public aid budget. At the same time, the Department of Public Aid and its Director says it belongs in the mental health budget. Now, there's no doubt that these services have been rendered. There is no doubt that we owe the agency this money. The Governor's message is wrong. The Bill has not been paid. They've been working on this for approximately a year and a half. So, with this, I'm asking that this agency be given the money for the services they performed so they can take care of our Medicaid patients. They have not turned them away. For the last six months, they have not sent a bill here, but they have thinned their staff down so much that it's taking away from the other services which they perform in that community. Now, this is a hardship, and something's going to have to happen between these two agencies that's going to say which one of us are going to fund this program. Right now, they're at a standstill, and this well-deserved program is needed. And it's... it's hurting very bad by what happened. So, I'm asking for the passage of this, of money that is owed, and like I said, your Governor's message is wrong. It is not a duplicate payment. It has not been paid yet."

"The Gentleman has moved to override an item veto on House Bill 2995. And on that question, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from Peoria, Representative

Tuerk. Tuerk: "Would the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"There's a lot of confusion on this... this veto, and as we've talked today and with other people, I am of the understanding, now, from you that this was a liability to the state that just has not been paid. Is that correct?"

"You're correct." 148  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 143rd Legislative Day

"Well, there's no reason... to the... to the Motion, then. There's no doubt in my mind, then, that we should restore these funds to the... to the Bill so that our agency back in Peoria does get what it's coming... what it has coming. The services have been rendered. Apparently, there's been some confusion, some misunderstanding about the whole picture, and I would support the Gentleman's Motion."

"Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, the question is, "Shall the House override the Governor's item veto of House Bill 2995 and restore it to the original amount... and... and restore it, notwithstanding the Governor's veto?" All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. 71 votes are required to pass this item. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 78 voting 'aye', 29 voting 'no', and 1 voting 'present'. And this Motion, having received the required Three-Fifths Majority, prevails. And this item is declared passed, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding. House Bill 3090, Representative Ropp. Motion 7. Mr. Clerk, read the Motion."

"Motion. I move that the following items of House Bill 3090 do pass, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding."

"Representative Ropp."

"Madam Speaker and friends of the chamber, there is a Bill... there is a program called 'Vocational Instructor Practicum'. That's a big, tough word, but what it means, it allows vocational instructors who are teachers to go back into the private sector for the summer from one to eight weeks to be retrained and brought up to snuff as to new ongoing programs that they are instructing students in our state. This program was funded last year to the tune 149  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 of 1.5 million. It's been a very successful program. Nine hundred ninety-three teachers took part in this program last year. and I am urging you to override the Governor's veto so that this program can be continued again SO that young people will be able to be trained with modern ideas, modern tools, so that, in fact, they can go back into the work place at an even keel with business today, rather than to not be given that opportunity to be brought up to snuff. I urge your support in overriding the Governor's veto."

"The Gentleman has moved to override an item veto on House Bill 3090. And on that question, the Gentleman from Kendall, Representative Hastert."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"Representative Ropp, one of your friends back here has a question. You said this would purchase new tools?"

"No, what I said was..."

"You said it would purchase new tools."

"Purchase of tools?"

"That's what you said in your explanation."

"No, what I said, it allows them to learn of the new... new tools, new kinds of equipment and new methods which the private sector is using in their businesses."

"Fine. Then, what does this money do?"

"It pays $2,000 per teacher that meets the standards to go back into the work place to learn from a period of one week to eight weeks."

"Standards? What standards are you talking about?"

"The standards are that: Number one, there is a facility that will allow that teacher to come into that work place, which is one. They, of course, have to be a vocational teacher. We did pass legislation last year that also allowed the vocational counselor and the vocational 150  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 administrator to also be included in that particular list."

"So then, what this says is does is pay their salaries?"

"Two thousand dollars. If the private industry chooses. they may pay one-third of it, but the state, under this program, will pay up to 2,000 minus the one-third that the private business would assume."

"So basically, what this is, is a private industry can hire somebody to work for them during the period of the summer, and then have their salaries paid. Is that right?"

"It's not necessarily work for them, it... in fact is, the law does not allow them to ever go back into that work place to be hired on a full-time basis. It's strictly an opportunity for education and retraining people who are in the field of teaching vocational education in the state."

"But, it does allow them to go into the work place and earn a living... you know, earn money? Punch a clock?"

"It does... They can earn up to $2,000 to become informed as to new methods of doing business in the State of Illinois in the private sector."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Terzich."

"Representative Ropp, could you give me an example of Ropp: what a vocation... I mean, are we talking like milking cows or an electrician or a carpenter or something like that?" "You're absolutely correct. It could be a person who is involved in agriculture, an FFA ag teacher. It could be a home economics teacher. It could be a business education teacher who might go into any major business in the State of Illinois. It could be someone who is involved in nursing. It could be someone who is involved in electrical appliances, plumbing, or whatever the case might be dealing with, both with any kind of a vocational skill." 151  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"Would it also mean that if you sit from one to eight weeks, then, is it possible for someone to work one week and get $2,000 for that one week?"

"Negative. It's $225 a week."

"Two hundred and twenty-five dollars a week?"

"Yes, Sir."

"And, who does this apply to?"

"Every vocational educator who is a teacher in the State of Illinois. Nine hundred ninety-three people received that grant to go to the school or go back into the work place. Some 1,100 applied. So, not everybody that applies is able to go into that place because frankly, there aren't always enough jobs of this kind of nature available."

"You mean... Well, how did they apply for it? I mean, do they already have the job?"

"No, no. There is a... There is a form or an application grant that they submit to each of the some 16 educational service regions in the state, and these regions then will, in fact, go out and seek those jobs that will match up with that particular instructor who is teaching the course, whatever it may be, dealing with vocation education."

"Do you agree that knowledge is no burden?"

"Knowledge is no burden?"

"Yes."

"I think knowledge is exceptionally... is needed in the work place and in order to survive, you need knowledge."

"I just wanted a 'yes' or 'no'. I didn't need another explanation."

"Yes."

"The Gentleman from Bureau, Representative Mautino, on the Motion."

"Will the Gentleman yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will." 152  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

November 19, 1986 "Representative Ropp, may I give you a scenario, and then maybe you can help me decide whether or not this is a good program."

"Well, I need it." Mautino:

"Let us say I am a machine tool company, and I need two welders for the summer. Can I fill those two welding spots with this new welding machine that I have with two vocational education instructors to come in and fill those two slots and the State of Illinois will pay the wages of 225 a week for that person to fill those slots?" To my understanding, no. It is to pay the wages of that instructor to come in and view the new, innovative methods in... on how to weld or how to become more involved in the tool and dye making. But they're not necessarily replacing people who may be on vacation with $250 a week help."

"Thank you. Mr. Ropp. That was not my question. My question is, I have a new welding machine in my machine shop, and I'm going to put on two welders. Can I, under your program. hire... put these two vocational education people in my shop, show them how to use this new welder, and have their fee... excuse me, their... their wages of $250 a week, since they're learning to use this new welding machine, picked up by the State of Illinois?"

"I think under your example, the answer would be 'yes', in that it does provide an opportunity for that instructor to... to learn new methods of how to weld with a new piece of equipment that he or she could, in fact, go back home into his local school and teach and train students on how to use that new piece of equipment."

"Maybe your legislation should provide for the purchase of those new welding machines and put them right in the classroom, and the vocational education teacher could teach the students right in the classroom." 153  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 143rd Legislative Day

"Well, we have some funds that we have appropriated down through the years for vocational programs."

"Thank you. Thank you very much."

"The Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite."

"Madam Speaker and Members of the House, I rise in support of this Motion. I think that we are perhaps overlooking the fact that the purpose of this program is to enhance the training of the vocational education teacher. It is not something that is meant specifically for that teacher to have a work position for the summer. it is in order to give that teacher the benefit of some of the newer methods and the newer equipment that may be available so that they can be a better teacher. The purpose is to give them up-to-date training in their particular vocation so that they will be a better teacher in the classroom and what they are teaching will be more relevant to what is going on into... in the industrial or the work setting at the moment. It may be that on a very short term basis, someone in business will be getting help, but it is not something that is going to be available to them on a long term basis, and it is not a program designed to help industry directly. It will help industry in that those students who were going through the vocational education programs will be better trained for the jobs that are available when they complete their vocational education program. I think that it is time that we give some assistance to our schools and to our vocational educators so that they have the advantage of working in the current work force, even if they are going to get new equipment within their schools, the fact that they can experience what is going on in industry and be able to better select what goes into our schools for equipment will also be an 154  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 advantage to us in the future, but the primary purpose is for up-to-date information for the teacher about what is happening in the work world, so that they can better use that to train their students. The primary purpose is not for a direct benefit to business, although it may sometimes end up being that direct benefit. I rise in support of the Gentleman's Motion."

"The Lady from Cook, Representative Flowers."

"Madam Speaker, will the Sponsor yield?"

"He wil1."

"Representative Ropp, does this particular program, does it apply throughout the entire state?"

"Yes."

"So this is in Chicago, as well?"

"Absolutely."

"Thank you."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative LeFlore."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Yes."

"Representative Ropp, is this a pilot program, or is this an ongoing program?"

"This is a continuation of the program that was implemented in the year of 1986. We want to continue it in 1987." LeFlore: What was the success rate of it in 1986? How many teachers was involved?"

"More than 1,100 teachers applied, 993 participated."

"No further questions."

"Representative Ropp, to close."

"In an effort to speed up the process, I think Representative Satterthwaite closed for me very well. And I urge a favorable vote on the override Motion."

"The question is, Shall this item pass, the 155  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day veto of the Governor notwithstanding?" November 19, 1986 All those in favor vote "aye', all those opposed vote 'no". Voting is open. 71 votes are required for passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 84 voting 'aye', 24 voting "no", 4 voting 'present'. This Motion, having received the required Three-Fifths Majority, prevails, and this item is declared passed, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding. House Bill 3090, Representative Matijevich, Motion 8. Read the Motion, Mr. Clerk."

"Motion. "I move to restore the following reduced items of appropriation in House Bill 3090, the reduction of the Governor notwithstanding.."

"Representative Matijevich." Matijevich: Madam Speaker, these are two separate restorations in two lines, but they are included in one Motion because they are relating to the same subject, restoration of adult education funds. They total 481,000 dollars, 280,000 dollars of it is in public assistance adult education funds, and they are strictly within federal guidelines for adult education of welfare recipients. The reason that I have filed this Motion is that if there is any funds that are cost benefit, they are in adult education for public welfare recipients. Let me give you the... the facts that are called from the adult education annual report. The Illinois State Board of Education for FY 1985, the number employed from the adult education program were 5,967, and we actually removed or reduced grants to public welfare people of 2,773, which translates to a estimated welfare savings to the state of over almost 9,000,000 dollars. In other words, what I am saying, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, is that when we provide education, adult education for people on welfare, we are providing for them the 156  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 opportunity, because of that education, to become gainfully employed, and thereby removing them from the public welfare rolls. The other amount that is included in this appropriation is from the state line item for adult education with no restrictions as to federal guidelines, in other words, the whole gamut of adult education. Also, this means that the... we all heard during the campaign, for example, and rightfully so, the increased literacy efforts spearheaded by the Secretary of State's Office. That, and Project Chance, which we also heard a lot of, the Project Chance initiative, means that there are many adult education programs that are so beneficial, yet it is bulging at the seams. We are having to turn away people who want to get adult education programming. Also, what it means is that there are many who are dropouts, who have, for some reason or other, dropped out of secondary education, and then a couple of years later find out their mistake. They want to have their GED certificate so that they, too, can be gainfully employed. If there is ever a program that is cost beneficial to the State of Illinois, it is adult education. And, for that reason, I have filed this Motion and hopefully that 60 of you can join with me because it does mean a lot, I think, to all of the people of the State of Illinois. So, I would urge your support."

The Gentleman has moved to restore this item to its original amount. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is... The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken, on the question." McCracken: Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I understand it, if this restoration Motion is not successful, then the two programs will be funded for this year at the same level they were funded last year. I don't know that there has been a case made for an increase and I... I think that we should not be 157  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 in favor of the override Motion...or the restoration Motion. Thank you."

Representative Matijevich, to close." Matijevich: Only to quickly reiterate... you know, I realize Tom's got to do what he's got to do, but the fact of the matter is, that there are new programs. We're talking about the literacy initiative. We're talking about the Project Chance initiative. You know, I think it's wrong. You know, I thought it was right that these issues were made an issue in the campaigns, but then it is wrong if we make an issue of something in the campaign and don't provide the funding, that is wrong. So, since they were made an issue of in the campaign, lets properly fund them. So, I would urge the Members on both sides of the aisle to provide adequate funding for adult education. I urge your strong support."

"The question is, 'Shall this item be restored to its original amount, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. 60 votes are required for the passage of this Motion. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 67 voting 'aye', 45 voting 'no', and none voting 'present', and this Motion, having received the Constitutional Majority, prevails, and the House restores the item that was reduced. On the same Supplemental al appears Item Veto Motions, and under that, appears House Bill 2978, Representative Stephens, Motion #1. Read the Motion, Mr. Clerk."

"Motion. 'I move to restore the items vetoed in House Bill 2978, the veto of the Governor notwithstanding.'" 158  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

November 19, 1986 "Representative Stephens." "Thank you. Madam Speaker and Members of the House. House 3ill 2978, the 5,000 dollars that the Governor vetoed, the item veto, represents 5,000 dollars that we would like the State Fire Marshall to administer for the purpose of individual grants to local areas not to exceed 500 dollars to any group or area that shall be used for the purpose of defraying the expenses of organizing a new fire protection district. This appropriation is very important. It originated in a little town not far from my district, Mulberry Grove, where they have a fire district that's a subscription district, and a little girl was burned in a mobile home fire, she was killed in that fire because the fire district arrived at the scene, or the fire department, they had not paid their subscription and the little girl was left to expire. This is a death that could have been avoided. Many rural districts where they have these subscription fire departments, do not form their own fire districts for the simple reason that they don't have enough money just to get the grant going, to bring the legal papers together and the technical knowledge that it takes that must be hired to form those districts, and this will allow the State Fire Marshal1 to assist those local districts, those local areas that want to, they don't have to, but if they want to establish a rural fire protection district, this would assist them. And I would urge our Members who are interested in fire prevention throughout our state to support the override Motion, and I $0 move."

"The Gentleman has moved to override the Governor's item veto. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."

"Would the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"He indicates he will." 159  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"How much money is involved with this override, total?

"The total dollar amount is 5,000 dollars."

"Five thousand dollars. This is for fire protection districts throughout the state?"

"This is for the creation of fire protection districts in rural areas, a grant up to 500 dollars per group or area that wants to make application for a rural fire protection district. Representative McPike can explain it to you."

"Would that be up to a hundred new ones, then?"

"Well, let me see, 500 dollars a piece, and there is 5,000 dollars, there could be a hundred, yes."

"How many... this is for new fire protection districts, not existing ones. This is to help create a new fire protection district?"

"Right."

"And this would allow us to create up to a hundred new fire protection districts, I'm sorry, ten new fire protection districts by giving them 500 dollars."

"Well, it depends on how many times five hundred goes into five thousand."

"Well, I think it's ten."

"Ten, that's right."

"Okay. So, we're going to create ten new fire protection districts and give them 500 dollars each. And how many lives would you say this is going to save over the course of a year?"

"Representative Cullerton, I hope you are not asking that question in jest. I... there was a death in our area, and the truth of the matter is, that if it had had a regular rural fire protection district, they would have responded to that fire, they would have extinguished the fire." 160  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day

November 19, 1986 "Well, I understand, but 500 dollars isn't very much money, on the other hand. So, why don't the local people just do it themselves?"

"This it, but if would assist the local people to do it, if it's 500 dollars. I don't know why they won't do this will help them, Sir, I think that it's a legitimate cost."

"Well, of course, it would help them. I imagine it will help them to a tune of 500 dollars." of Stephens: Well, if you are aware the problems we have in southern Illinois, all the way as far down as Pulaski County and those counties, this doesn't just affect my district. As a matter of fact, there's little affect in my area."

"What would a fire protection district do, like buy a new fire truck?"

"They would provide fire protection to every home in the district rather than having those homes... And many of these people living in the rural areas cannot afford to subscribe to the current districts that are out there, and this would afford the local fire district to provide fire protection for each of those homes." Cullerton: the opportunity "Well, would they buy new fire trucks?" Stephens: They would just provide the service. wouldn't... they wouldn't... No, they The 500 dollars would go for the establishment of the district, the legal work that it takes to establish that district."

"Oh, this is for lawyers." support

"Now, how could you possibly be against that?"

"Well, I'm just... you know, I'm probably going to but I just am amazed at your sense of priorities. You say, you are very selective in protecting the fiscal integrity of the State of Illinois, and you vote 151  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 against everyone else's Motion until it comes down to something inside your district, and then you get up and...."

"This is not in my district, Sir."

"Well, real close as I think was the testimony that you gave, real close."

"It was probably in Representative Phelps' district."

"And, I just don't understand where your sense of priorities are when you say you are very selective in protecting the fiscal integrity of the state. And it seems to me that it's probably something that the local people can do by themselves, and one ought to do by themselves. And when they see that there is a tragic death, they make that decision on a local level. However, I can be for the concept. I just wish you would be more consistent with your other votes."

"I appreciate your input."

"Representative Stephens, to close."

"Just to move for a favorable vote."

"The question is, 'Shall this item be restored to its original amount, notwithstanding the reduction of the Governor?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. This was an item veto. This is final passage of this Bill, if it receives 71 votes. 71 votes are required for the passage of the Motion. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 55 voting 'aye', 51 voting 'no', and 2 voting present, and the Motion fails. On the Order of Motions, on Supplemental #1, appears House Joint Resolution 242, Representative Steczo. Clerk, read the Motion."

"Motion. Pursuant to Rule 77(a), I move to discharge Committee on Executive from further consideration 162  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 and advance to the Order of the Speaker's Table for immediate consideration.."

"Representative Steczo moves to bypass the Executive Committee and place this Bill on the Speaker's Table for immediate consideration. Is there any objection? Hearing none, a Majority vote will be recorded for the passage of that Motion. Representative Steczo, on the Motion, on the Resolution, I should say."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. House Joint Resolution 242 is the Resolution that we intended to bring up yesterday, and it deals with the problems that... that currently exist between TWA and the Independent Federation of Flight Attendants regarding contract negotiations that have reached a total impasse. What has happened, Madam Speaker, Members of the House, on March 7, 1986, the IFFA, the flight attendants that work for TWA, and their six thousand members, went on strike when their negotiations reached a total impact. Though that impact or impasse was reached as a result of a certain situation where some personnel that worked for TWA and have worked for TWA before and after the recent takeover, were asked to take approximately 15% wage and benefit cuts, the flight attendants were asked to take wage and benefit cuts of over 45%. These were drastic in anybody's eyes. When they objected, other personnel were hired. The fact that other personnel has been hired, suggests problems with safety in flight and other matters related to the operation of the airline. And it does promote dangerous work place conditions, et cetera. The union has said, 'We will go back to work.' The... company has said, 'No, you have struck. Therefore, we don't want you back.' They have attempted to negotiate in good faith. I find it ironic that one of the reasons that they have been... they have 163  143rd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE November 19, 1986 been requested to take larger wage cuts and larger benefit cuts is that the Chairman, the new Chairman of THA said, in a negotiating session, that he feels that way, because quote, *Female flight attendants are not family breadwinners." I don't know what century this gentleman is living in, but he is certainly not living in the 20th century. And I think that it's unbelievable that anybody, anybody would expect; number one, one group of employees to take a higher wage and benefit cut than another, and also, to expect that because you happen to be a female, that you are going to be expected to take larger cut because quote, unquote, He feels that you are not a family breadwinner.. The purpose of the Resolution, Madam Speaker, is to address this issue to urge TWA to conduct good faith negotiations with the Independent Federation of Flight Attendants and to urge that while conducting state business, that we will utilize other airlines as long as this labor dispute stays... remains the way that it is. I would ask, Madam Speaker, for the House to adopt House Joint Resolution 242.

"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of House Joint Resolution 242. And on that question, the Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Tuerk."

"Well, Madam Speaker and Members of the House, I think TWA has a lot to learn in running a business. There is no question about that. They recently acquired Ozark Airlines which has been part of the Peoria Community and St. Louis for a number of years. And what they've done in the area of employee relations in Peoria is not exemplary, by any means. And only today, from the report I got, they are closing down the reservation office in Peoria, which is going to mean the dislocation of a number of people. Actually, they've handled things very, very poorly. 164  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 Notwithstanding some of the problems that they have and some of the feelings that I may have personally against the airline, I think that to get into a public policy situation as HJR 242 purports, I think it's bad public policy on our part to be injecting ourselves into the bargaining of any employer and employee group. I, therefore, think that to move this Resolution along would be a mistake on our part, and therefore, I oppose the Motion that's before us."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Steczo, to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Members of the House. I don't think it's the intention of House Joint Resolution 242, or this House of Representatives to become involved in injecting ourselves in any labor negotiations. This Resolution would act as a sense of the House to inform TWA that we object, and we object strenuously to the treatment of that IFFA has received since last March. The IFFA is willing to give consessions. Unfortunately, TWA wants a pound of flesh. It seems to me that the chairman of TWA considers this a board game. This isn't a board game. This isn't monopoly they're playing. These are real people that are involved. Real people who have lost a lot and who have a lot to lose. It's imperative that they understand that while it is appropriate and acceptable in some cases to work the kind of leverage deals that large businesses gain control of corporations, they simply cannot take advantage of the dedicated skilled employees that have put twenty, twenty-five and thirty years of service into that company to make it work and to make it what it is, or work to gain control of what it was, prior to the takeover. I think it's well within our rights to express a sense to them, that they should negotiate in good faith. And I, Madam Speaker, would move for the adoption of House Joint Resolution 242." 165  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"The question is, "Shall the House adopt House Joint Resolution 242?" All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Joint Resolution is adopted. Representative Cullerton moves that the... Excuse me. Introduction of Bills."

"House Bill 3671, McCracken - et al, a Bill for an Act in relation to drug offenses. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3672, McCracken - et al, a Bill for an Act relating to electronic criminal surveillance devices. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3673, McCracken - et al, a Bill for an Act in relation to murder and admissibility of evidence. First Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Giglio. Representative Cullerton moves that this Regular Session of the General Assembly adjourn until 9:00 tomorrow morning. All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and this Session of the Assembly is adjourned until 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. The House now calls the Third Special Session of the Eighty-Fourth General Assembly, Subject Matter, Insurance, that was to have been called at 11:30 a.m. this morning, into order. And the Chair would ask leave to use the Attendance Roll Call from earlier this morning in the Regular Session for the purposes of the Third Special Session. Does the Chair have leave? The Chair has leave, and the Third Special Session Attendance Roll Call will be used. Introduction of Bills."

"House Bill #1, Regan - et al, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Code of Civil Procedure. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill #2, Ryder, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Civil Procedure. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3, Ryder - Piel, a Bill for an Act 166  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986 in relation to liability and the recovery of damages. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 4, McCracken, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Civil Procedure. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 5, Churchill Williamson, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Civil Procedure. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 6, Ewing and Regan, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Civil Procedure. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 7, McCracken Hallock, a Bill for an Act to repeal Sections of the Code of Civil Procedure. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 8, Ewing Churchill, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Code of Civil Procedure. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 9, Parke and McCracken, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Civil Procedure. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 10, Tate and Mays, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Civil Procedure. First Reading of the Bill."

"Representative McPike now moves that the Third Special Session stand ad journed until 9:30 tomorrow morning. November 20th. All those in favor say 'aye", all those opposed say 'no". In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Third Special Session is adjourned until 9:30 tomorrow morning. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Regular Session will begin at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. We will see you then. Representative Ewing, for what reason do you rise?"

"Madam Speaker, did we... are we in the Third?

"He have adjourned the Third, and we are ready to go home.

"You were going to give us... a request was mada this morning about the Bills the Governor had set forth.

"The Bills were introduced, Sir."

"Okay. They will not be going to Rules Committee then?" 167  STATE OF ILLINOIS 84th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 143rd Legislative Day November 19, 1986

"They went to the Committee on Assignment, so I assume they...."

"They've gone to the Committee on Assignment, so the Speaker's... the Speaker's position is that those Bills go directly to the Committee on Assignment and not to Rules?"

"I believe so. Mr. Clerk, is that where they were sent? Representative Ewing."

"Yes."

"That is correct by the House Rules. These Bills go automatically to the Committee on Assignment."

"Thank you very much."

"Representative McCracken, for what reason do you rise?"

"I may be mistaken, I thought they were going to go to Judiciary. That's not correct, directly to Judiciary?"

"No... No Bills go directly to substantive Committees. They have to go to the Committee on Assignment."

"But I thought Alan was going to make that assignment right away. Is that not correct?"

"That....they just got there, Sir. You can do that off the floor."

"Okay. Thank you."

"Any other discussion? Hearing none, we will see you all at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. Good night." 168  02/11/87 08:46 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX NOVEMBER 19, 1986 PAGE 1 HB-0787 MOTION PAGE 139 HB-0787 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 4 HB-0913 MOTION PAGE 141 HB-0913 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 4 HB-1130 MOTION PAGE 4 HB-1321 MOTION PAGE 6 HB-2581 MOTION PAGE 22 HB-2581 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 7 HB-2621 MOTION PAGE 7 HB-2648 MOTION PAGE 14 HB-2735 MOTION PAGE 76 HB-2757 MOTION PAGE 15 HB-2785 MOTION PAGE 16 HB-2978 MOTION PAGE 158 HB-2987 HOTION PAGE 30 HB-2987 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 26 HB-2988 MOTION PAGE 26 HB-2988 MOTION PAGE 34 HB-2989 MOTION PAGE 41 HB-2989 MOTION PAGE 144 HB-2995 MOTION PAGE 63 HB-2995 MOTION PAGE 147 HB-2996 MOTION PAGE 88 HB-2997 MOTION PAGE 138 HB-2997 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 132 HB-2998 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 95 HB-3043 MOTION PAGE 78 HB-3090 MOTION PAGE 95 HB-3090 MOTION PAGE 149 HB-3091 MOTION PAGE 133 HB-3191 MOTION PAGE 120 HB-3340 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 19 HB-3346 MOTION PAGE 19 HB-3394 MOTION PAGE 20 HB-3431 MOTION PAGE 85 HB-3479 MOTION PAGE 21 HB-3543 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 22 HB-3543 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 141 HB-3573 MOTION PAGE 141 HB-3671 FIRST READING PAGE 166 HB-3672 FIRST READING PAGE 166 HB-3673 FIRST READING PAGE 166 HR-0243 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 3 HR-1671 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 3 HR-1672 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 3 HR-1673 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 3 HR-1674 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 4 HR-1675 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 3 HR-1676 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 4 HR-1677 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 4 HR-1678 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 4 HR-1679 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 3 HJR-0242 MOTION PAGE 162 HJR-0242 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 2  02/11/87 08:46 STATE OF ILLINOIS 84TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX SPECIAL SESSION #3 NOVEMBER 19, 1986 PAGE 2 HB-0001 FIRST READING PAGE 166 HB-0002 FIRST READING PAGE 166 HB-0003 FIRST READING PAGE 166 HB-0004 FIRST READING PAGE 167 HB-0005 FIRST READING PAGE 167 HB-0006 FIRST READING PAGE 167 HB-0007 FIRST READING PAGE 167 HB-0008 FIRST READING PAGE 167 HB-0009 FIRST READING PAGE 167 HB-0010 FIRST READING PAGE 167 SUBJECT MATTER HOUSE TO ORDER - SPEAKER GREIMAN IN CHAIR PRAYER - FATHER FRANK O'HARA PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ROLL CALL FOR ATTENDANCE PAGE 1 PAGE 1 PAGE 1 PAGE 1