Illinois House Floor Debate — April 28, 1987

"The hour of 12:00 having arrived, the House will be in Session. The Chaplain for today will be the Reverend Paul Schwartz, Pastor of St. Matthew Evangelical Lutheran Church of Lemont. Reverend Schwartz is a guest of Representative Jane Barnes. The guests in the gallery may wish to rise and join us for the invocation. Reverend Schwartz."

"Heavenly Father, You have given us this day as a gift, a trust, an opportunity to direct and manage Your resources for the health, safety and welfare of the people of this commonwealth. We ask for Your blessing today upon the men and the women, the staff, the Committees, that their debate, their labor, their legislation, would bring a better tomorrow for all the people in the State of Illinois. Through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen."

"The Gentleman from Tazewell, Mr. Ackerman, will lead us in the pledge to the flag."

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Roll Call for Attendance. Representative Matijevich, do you have excuses on the Democratic side?"

"None on this side, Mr. Speaker."

"Mr. Piel, are any excused absences on the Republican side?"

"Yes, Mr. Speaker. Would the record show that Representative William Peterson is excused today?"

"Let the record so reflect. Mr. Clerk, take the record. 114 Members having answered to the call of the quorum, a quorum is present. Committee Reports." 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987

"Representative O'Connell, Chairman of the Committee on Judiciary II, to which the following Bills were referred, action taken April 23, 1987, reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass' House Bills 506, 653, 1132, 1350, 1502, 1526 and 1585; 'do pass as amended' House Bills 205, 504, 600, 936 and 1040; 'do pass Consent Calendar' House Bill 1507 and 1527; 'do pass as amended Consent Calendar' House Bill 476; 'do pass Short Debate Calendar' House Bills 34, 349, 1601, 2013, 2328 and 2583; 'be adopted' House Resolution 133; House Resolution 135 and House Resolution 134; 'Interim Study Calendar' House Bills 79, 185 and 258; 'do pass as amended Short Debate' House Bill 525. Representative Rea, Chairman from the Select Committee on Economic Development, to which the following Bills were referred, action taken April 23, 1987, reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass' House Bills 1003, 1564, 1565, 1566, 1680, 1898, 1899, 2349, 2459 and 2744; 'do pass Short Debate Calendar' House Bill 1798. Representative Preston, Chairman of the Committee... Select Committee on Children, to which the following Bills were referred, action taken April 23, 1987, reported the same back with the following recommendations: 'do pass' House Bill 389 and 2457; 'do pass Consent Calendar' House Bill 655; 'do pass as amended Short Debate Calendar' House Bill 233."

"Senate Bills First Reading."

"Senate Bill 56."

"Excuse me, Mr. Clerk. Mr. McCracken, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"A point of information, Mr. Speaker. We, on this side of the aisle, have been advised that there will be a request to collapse Bills into super Bills at the Committee levels, something similar to a Committee Bill, but not 2  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 exactly a Committee Bill, a Bill the Chief Sponsor of which would be a Democrat, which would incorporate a number of other Bills that that Committee is handling. I'm here to inform you, Mr. Speaker, and the real Speaker that this side of the aisle is unalterably opposed to that method. We will not sit back and allow our Republican Members to be robbed of their Bills under the guise of some combined Bill system. We are absolutely opposed to it, and we are giving notice to the other side. We will not acquiesce in any request to be made along those lines."

"Senate Bills First Reading."

"Senate Bill 56, Hartke, a Bill for an Act to amend the Bingo License and Tax Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 161, Hartke, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code. First Reading of the Bill."

"Mr. Bowman, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"To... to suspend the posting requirement, Mr. Speaker. This is with regard to House Bill 1813, which is presently pending in Human Services. It was posted last week. I appeared before the Committee. I asked to have it reposted for this week publicly, both the Minority Spokesman and the Chair agreed at that time. I have since checked with Representative Daniels and Representative McCracken. I understand there is no problem from the other side of the aisle. May we suspend the posting requirement with respect to that Bill?"

"Mr. McCracken."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Out of respect to the Sponsor, we agreed to do this although it's unfortunate the process has gotten to the point where even a Democratic Chairman can't get his own Bills posted."

"Leave to use the Attendance Roll Call to waive 3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 the posting requirements with respect to House Bill 1813. The Gentleman has leave. For what purpose does the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane, seek recognition?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would ask to waive the posting rules for House Bill 631 which had been assigned to Labor and Commerce for some reason, and it's been reassigned to Revenue. It was reassigned too late for posting. I would like to suspend the posting requirements to post for Wednesday, tomorrow, April 29th in the Revenue Committee so it can be assigned to an Income Tax Study Committee. We've discussed this with the Minority Leader on the... Minority Spokesman on the Revenue Committee and she has no problems."

"The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane, asks leave of the House to use the Attendance Roll Call with respect to House Bill 631 to waive the posting requirements so the Bill may be heard tomorrow in Subcommittee. Mr. Keane."

"Yes, I'd like just to make an announcement."

"Well, Mr. Keane, let's... let me get your matter taken care of, if I might."

"Oh, I'm sorry. Pardon me. Pardon me."

"Mr. McCracken, on the request for leave."

"Representative Keane, if it goes to the Subcommittee tomorrow, will it be heard by the Full Committee next week?"

"It'll be double posted for Subcommittee. My understanding is it will be posted for Subcommittee next week, and also for Full Committee."

"Well then, what's the point of having it in Subcommittee today?"

"We have to get..."

"My point is..."

"We have to get it posted to the Full Committee today, 4  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 before tomorrow, so it can be referred to Subcommittee next week."

"Tomorrow... tomorrow it would be referred to Subcommittee."

"For the Full Committee. Dave, would you mind moving?"

"Both the Subcommittee and the Full Committee?"

"No. Just so we can post it for the Full Committee tomorrow, and then tomorrow it will be referred to Subcommittee."

"And the next week will be the last week for Committees."

"Yeah, and it will be double posted. It will be posted for the Subcommittee and for the Full Committee as will all Bills that will be heard in Revenue next week."

"Is it the Chairman's intention to hear all Bills in Subcommittee next week and also in the Full Committee next week?"

"That's correct."

"Would it not be more efficient to hear them in the Full Committee next week?"

"No, we've done this for two years now and have not had any problem doing it that way."

"Thank you."

"And so, accordingly, leave will be granted to waive the posting requirements for House Bill 631 to be heard in Full Committee tomorrow. The Gentleman has leave. The Gentleman from Macon, Mr. Dunn. For what purpose do you seek recognition, Sir?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. On today's Calendar, there are shown two postings for the Judiciary I Subcommittee on Tort Reform. The first posting is for tomorrow evening at 6:00 p.m., and the second posting is the next day, Thursday, at 8:00 a.m. I would 5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 like to move to waive the appropriate rules and suspend the appropriate rules so that those Bills posted for Judiciary I Subcommittee on Tort Reform for Thursday morning, April 30th at 8:00 a.m. can be heard Wednesday evening, April 29 at 6:00 p.m. with the other Bills in that Subcommittee."

Speaker Greiman: "The Gentleman from Macon, Mr. Dunn, asks leave of the House to use the Attendance Roll Call to allow the posting for the Judiciary I Subcommittee on Tort Reform which was set up on... for Thursday to be heard also on Wednesday with other Bills in that Subcommittee. And on that, Mr. McCracken."

"Alright. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative Dunn, what is the purpose of moving the Thursday morning Subcommittee Bill to the Wednesday evening Subcommittee?"

"The purpose is... is to conform with the original Committee intent. There was an error made in the posting for Thursday. It will just mean that the Subcommittee Members will have the inconvenience of the second meeting, and I think we can take care of all business Wednesday evening when we have time to go until it's finish. Some of the Members who are on Judiciary II which will be meeting at the same time Thursday morning, and if we suspend this rule, we can hear everything Wednesday night as a package. And I've cleared this with the Minority Spokesman on the Committee, and he has no objection."

"So, you propose that all of the Subcommittee Bills currently set for 8:00 a.m. Thursday should be heard along with the Wednesday evening Subcommittee Bills."

"That's... that's correct."

"And about how..."

"That was the original..."

"Given... given..."

"That was the original intention and we can have two 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 Subcommittee meetings if the Body insist, but it was for the convenience of everybody that we take care of this particular Subcommittee on Wednesday evening. And I would appreciate the accommodation."

"Okay. Are either of those Subcommittees Bills posted for the Full Committee this week?"

"These are all Bills assigned to Subcommittee, which were posted in the Full Committee last week or posted for tomorrow morning, double posting, in other words, and they will be... they're posted for the Full Committee tomorrow morning, some of them, and they will be assigned to Tort Reform Committee tomorrow for a hearing tomorrow evening. The ones that are posted for Committee this week have been double posted."

"And the ones that are double posted will have no chance of being heard by the Full Committee this week, because it will already have met."

"It is... I don't think any of them will be heard in the Full Committee this week, because we haven't had a Tort Reform Committee hearing. They'll be heard next week in Full Committee, all of them."

"Okay. That's... that's your representation that all of these Bills will be heard in the Full Committee next week."

"Yeah. Yeah. Yes, and I think to be... to be honest and candid about it, there is a lot of duplication and the issues will be heard and the Sponsor will be accommodated, I am hopeful that some Sponsors will combine Bills or consider amending one Bill into another, but, yes, we will accommodate the Sponsor. It is my commitment to call the Tort Reform Bills for a hearing next week. That's... that's correct."

"Now, in your request to amend together various Bills 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 into a single Bill, do you propose to retain Republican Sponsorship Bills to be controlled by Republicans or do you propose to mix it between Republicans and Democrats?"

"I am... I have a genuine representation for bipartisanship in this Body, and I intend to adhere to that, but that's not part of this discussion. I'll be happy to talk to you about that off the microphone."

"Well then, we don't agree if... if we can't get a decision from the Chairman on whether this telescoping of Bills is going to be for the benefit of the Democrats and the detriment of the Republicans. We don't agree. We object to the Gentleman's Motion."

"This has nothing to do with... the issue before the Body raised by me at this time is whether to have one Subcommittee meeting on Wednesday evening and hear all the Bills when there is time or hear half of them on Wednesday evening and squeeze in the other half on Thursday morning when Members are racing back and forth between other assignments and Judiciary II Committee. So... and this was simply a mix up over here about posting. So, there's no devious plot, and if you persist in your objection, we'll have two Subcommittee hearings."

"Mr. Speaker, I've heard the Gentleman's answer."

"Yes. Proceed, Sir."

"And I object to the Motion."

"Yeah. Alright. Mr. Dunn, do you wish... you may wish to make a Motion to that effect in writing and... which is your privilege as it is the Gentleman from DuPage's privilege not to agree. The Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Keane, you had an announcement."

"Yeah, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to alert those who might have Bills in the Real Estate Tax Subcommittee and the House Revenue Committee. The meeting 8  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 next week on House... of that Subcommittee has been set for Tuesday. So, in order to post those Bills, in order for Bills to be posted to that Subcommittee, you have to contact Ron Levin or the Republican staff and ask them to have it posted; otherwise, we will not be able to hear those Bills. Thank you."

"Speaker Madigan in the Chair."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, could I have your attention? We have with us today a very distinguished guest, the Australian Ambassador to the United States who plans to deliver some remarks. So, if the Members could please be in their chairs and would staff please leave the floor. Will staff leave the floor? Will Members please be in their chairs? Mr. Ronan, could you take your seat? Will staff please leave the floor? Will Members please be in their chairs? The Ambassador will be introduced by the Australian Counsel General assigned to the City of Chicago, Mr. Terence McCarthy. So, Mr. McCarthy."

"Mr. Speaker and Members of the Legislature, it gives me a great pleasure to be back again, but this time to introduce the distinguished Australian Ambassador to the United States, Mr. Rawdon Dalrymple. Mr. Dalrymple is a career Australian diplomat and has been for some 30 years. He has served most recently as our Ambassador to Indonesia and prior to that our Ambassador to Israel, and he has been in the United States for nearly the last two years and it gives me very great pleasure on behalf of Speaker Madigan to invite His Excellency to address this Assembly."

"Mr. Speaker, distinguished Members of the Assembly and my good friend and colleague, Counsel General McCarthy, thank you very much for those introductory remarks. I can see that this is a very healthy Assembly. There's an apple in front of every place and quite a few of 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 you are obviously enjoying them. That's a... that's a, I'm sure, a good sign on a lovely day like this. I'm very grateful for the honor and privilege of addressing this House. Pontius said, it was Abraham Lincoln served in this Legislature and from this City, Lincoln left to become President of the United States of America. Lincoln, for Australians, has become, perhaps, the best known of all Americans. He's a symbol of leadership in bringing justice to all races and giving everyone the... of his experience for them in the Constitution. Illinois is an important state of the union, the fifth largest. It has produced many of this country's leaders. For example, the birth place of both President and Mrs. Reagan. Next year, we have the bicentenary in Australia. By the time Australia was first settled two hundred years ago, the United States had already become independent. And the links between my country and yours started very early in our history. In fact, we owe our origins to the same set of circumstances. You know, the British used Georgia and the Carolinas as a place to send their convicted convicts for many years, and then in 1776, because some people felt that there should be no taxation without representation, the British found themselves without anywhere to send their convicts. After a short interval, I remembered that someone called Captain Cook had sent a favorable report about a place called Botany Bay on the other side of the world, and they decided that that might be an appropriate place to send the convicts who hadn't been... they were not longer able to send to this country. So, really we owe our existence to the decision of the people of this country, in 1776, to resist the imposition of taxation without representation to sever their links with England. I'm informed that in the current Session, this Legislature will be debating some new 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 and increased taxation. It's been two hundred years that we have had a close association with the United States, culminating, I think, in the closest association which Australia has with any country. We have very close defense, the strategic links, with the United States. United States is our second largest trading partner. We have many institutional links. The United States is one of our main sources of tourists, of immigrants. We have been associated with the United States in the last four of the wars which this country has fought. We now have very close links between the Federal Legislature here and the Federal Legislature in Australia. Frequent visits by Senators and Congressmen to Australia and by our Legislators in this direction. In all of this, Illinois has played an important role as a trading partner for Australia and because of the numbers of people from this part of the United States who've been involved in Australia in a variety of ways. One of the most distinguished or the most prominent citizens of Illinois who have left their mark on Australia, is a man called Walter Burley Griffin, who was an architect who had worked with Frank Lloyd Wright, and who won an international competition to design Australia's national capitol, Canberra. There is also many houses in my hometown, Sidney, that were designed by Walter Burley Griffin during his time in Australia. He's better known, perhaps, in Australia than he is here, but he was a very great and distinguished architect. As is very frequent with good friends, there are some disagreements between the United States and Australia, particularly on the trade side. This country has a favorable balance of trade with Australia of more than two to one. I find that people in the United States find it somewhat difficult to believe that the United States has a large trading surplus with any 11  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 country, but you do with Australia. We have a big deficit in our trade with you. And we encounter in getting better access to your markets. Many of the same sorts of problems that you encounter with Japan. We encounter quotas on many of exports in United States and other areas. We purchase nearly one and a half billion dollars worth of defense equipment every year in this country. And for that, we pay cash. We don't get it on loan terms or any other soft terms like some of your other allies, we pay cash for that. There are several important Illinois based companies, such as, Borg Warner, Sara Lee, Motorola and Brunswick, which have good business with Australia. And I think it's in the interest of Illinois as well as in the interest of Australia that that acting trading relationship continues. We provide a good market for a number of your important companies, and therefore, play our part in job creation and maintenance in this state. Our ability to continue to be able to do this is affected, of course, by United States Policies on Agriculture which have been damaging to our interest, and we very much hope that the tendency towards increased protectionism in this country won't be allowed to race away because that would do great damage, not only to your trading relations with Australia, of which you already have a huge surplus, but I think to, well, prosperity generally. I find enormous good will toward Australia and the United States. It's not always translated in to policy decision favorable to us, but we are working on that, and I hope we can have your good will in that regard. For the last two hundred years, Australians have been as the close friends and allies with the United States, and the Unites States has looked on Australia and relied on Australia for support and help in difficult circumstances; for example, in the Vietnam 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 period, and before that, in Korea, and I'm sure that's going to continue. In a world that... where democracy is shrinking and under pressure, democracies like Australia and the United States need to stick together and to give each other all the help, the mutual help they can. And I'm very delighted to be able to be present today in this distinguished House which is one of the fountain heads of democracy in this country. Thank you very much for receiving me today."

"Thank you very much, Mr. Ambassador and Mr. McCarthy. Both the Ambassador and Mr. McCarthy will be available for a short time if there are any of you who wish to talk with them privately about any of the concerns that may exist between our state and the government of Australia. Thank you very much."

"Representative Greiman in the Chair. Ms. Hasara, you were seeking recognition? For what purpose, Ma am?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With the permission of Representative Van Duyne, I'd like to move to suspend the posting requirement for House Bill 230 which was inadvertently left off the Calendar for tomorrow."

"Mr. Van Duyne."

"Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. And also in the same light, House Bills 1945 and 621 were treated the same way, so I have no objection if we waive the posting rules. Mr... Mr. Chairman... I mean, Mr. Speaker."

"Yes, Mr. Van Duyne."

"House Bill 230 and also House Bill 621 have already had testimony given by the Sponsors and their witnesses, and we held them in Committee waiting for another Bill of like quality by Representative Curran. Now, Mr. Curran's Bill has now been settled in our Committee and we're ready 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 to hear it and take a vote on all three Bills. So, I don't know how it got taken off. We were... the Bill was just being continued in Committee. And then there is another Bill, 1945, that we would like to waive the posting regulation for today."

"Let's take these in some orderly series before you add on. It is Ms. Hasara's Motion, or request, to waive the posting rule. Now, you have added a Bill."

"Mr. Kirkland's Bill is in the same category as hers."

"Why don't we take this out of the record for a little while, and we'll get back to you if that's alright with you, Ms. Hasara."

"Thank you."

"Thank you. Mr. Hoffman, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With the permission of the Chairman of Elementary and Secondary Education Committee, I'd like to waive the requirement for House Bill 398 which was not posted for this week, but which we had previously heard just waiting for an Amendment."

"Mr. Hoffman, why don't you just hold that for a second, we'll be with you in a minute?"

"I get it."

"Pullen, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"To make an introduction, please, Mr. Speaker."

"Within our rules. Alright, proceed Ma'am."

"I would like to introduce to the House the eighth grade class of Judah Christian High School in Champaign, Illinois. Their teacher is Mrs. Burton, and an outstanding member of the class is Annette Johnson, who is the daughter of our colleague Tim Johnson."

"Thank you. ...Now, Sir, we're prepared if you 14  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 wish to put your request. Mr. Hoffman."

"Yes. I'd like to renew my request to waive the posting requirements for House Bill 398 so it could be heard in Elementary and Secondary Education Committee tomorrow after discussion with the Chairman."

"The Gentleman asks leave of the House to use the Attendance Roll Call to waive the posting requirements on House Bill 3... is that 398, so the Bill may be heard in Committee on Elementary Education tomorrow. Gentleman has leave. You have leave, Sir. Now, Mr. Leverenz, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Mr. Speaker, I would move to use the Attendance Roll Call to hear three Bills in the Appropriations I Committee tomorrow evening at 6:00 p.m. That would be House Bills 784, 773 and 416. That is the first Motion of two."

"So, the Gentleman from Cook, Mr. Leverenz, asks leave of the House to waive the posting requirements with respect to House Bill 784... 784 and what are those other numbers, Mr..."

"773."

"773."

"416."

"And 416."

"416. Those are the pick three."

"So that they may be heard tomorrow at 6:00 in the Appropriations number one."

"That's correct."

"We have leave to use the Attendance Roll Call. Leave is granted, Sir. And now, Ms. Hasara, back to your desk. Ms. Hasara asks leave of the House to waive the posting requirements to the House Bill 230 so the Bill may be heard in the Committee on Counties and Townships. Lady have leave to use the Attendance Roll Call? She has leave." 15  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 Mr. Van Duyne, for what purpose do you seek recognition?"

"Mr. Speaker, all I was going to do is agree with Representative Hasara and Kirkland and not object to waiving the posting rules for House Bill 230 and 621."

"No one has made a Motion with respect to 621."

"Well, I did."

"Alright. The Gentleman..."

"And also... and also..."

"The Gentlemen from Will, Mr. Van Duyne, asks leave of the House to use the Attendance Roll Call to waive the posting requirements on House Bills 621 and..."

"1945 and 230"

"...and 1945 so that the matter may be heard in the Committee on Counties and Towns. Is there any objection? Mr. McCracken. 230 has already been waived."

"Right. My question of the maker of the Motion is, are House Bills 621 and 1945 similar subject matter of House Bill 230? These are unrelated?"

"No. Representative, one of the Bills is sponsored by Representative Kirkland and it's for some reason or another, it got dropped off of our list. I have no knowledge of why it was taken off. We haven't heard the Bill yet. And 1946... 1945 was given to me by our staffer today. In fact, all three of these Bills was given to me by the staffer."

"And which is 1945? Who is the Sponsor?"

"I have no knowledge"

"That's fine. Thank you."

"Alright. The Gentleman asks leave to use the Attendance Roll Call to waive the posting requirements with respect to those two Bills. Mr. Leverenz, for what purpose do you now seek recognition?"

"Yes. That was... the other Motion was my first of 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 two. The second Motion would be to suspend the posting requirement on House Bill 2736 so that the Appropriations I Subcommittee on Transportation could hear it this evening at 6:00 p.m. in the Speaker's Conference Room."

"The Gentleman asks leave of the House to use the Attendance Roll Call to waive the posting requirements with respect to House Bill 2736 so that Bill may be heard in the Subcommittee of Appropriations I. Gentleman have leave? You have leave, Sir. Mr. Kulas, the Gentleman from Cook."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House Bill #918 in Energy and Environment was inadvertently not posted. It's Representative... I would ask leave to have this Bill posted for Energy and Environment tomorrow. House Bill 918."

"Gentleman asks leave of the House to waive the posting requirements with respect to House Bill 918 so that Bill may be heard in the Committee on Energy and Environment at its meeting tomorrow. Mr. McCracken."

"I don't even know who asked that."

"Mr. Kulas, the Chairman of the Committee on Energy and Environment."

"And you spoke to Mr. Klemm? Thank you, Mr. Kulas."

"Gentleman asks leave to use the Attendance Roll Call to waive the posting requirements with respect to House Bill 918. Mr. Brunsvold, the Gentleman from Rock Island."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to make everybody again aware of the Legislators' Fitness Day tomorrow in Room 114. There will be seven tests done as indicated on your sheet on your desks. I'd like to see everybody there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker."

"The Gentleman from Peoria, Mr. Tuerk. For what 17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 purpose do you seek recognition, Mr. Tuerk?"

"Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent for the House not to print... to be able not to print House Bill 2051. It's a revisory Bill. It's a hundred and sum odd pages. I think we can save about 1,500 dollars if we don't print it. I don't think there's any useful purpose involved in printing the Bill. I would ask that we get unanimous consent to do so."

"The Gentleman from Peoria has asked unanimous consent to waive the requirement of printing with respect to House Bill 2051. Is there leave to use the Attendance Roll Call? Leave is granted. You have leave, Sir. The... on page 16... on page 16 of the Calendar, on the Order of Concurrence appears House Joint Resolution 1. Mr. McPike moves that the House do nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Resolution 1. All those in favor... Mr. McCracken, yes."

"Will the Sponsor yield?"

"Mr. McPike. Mr... you've made a Motion to nonconcur... Mr... in this... in Senate Joint Resolution 1 and Mr. McCracken asks that you yield for questions. The Gentleman indicates he will yield for questions."

"Thank you. Representative, what is it about Senate Amendment 1 that you do not agree with?"

"Do you want to take it out of the record for a few moments?"

"Yeah, I guess so."

"Mr. Shaw, for what purpose..."

"Yes... yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. It's a pleasure to see that we have a shoe shine person in the men's washroom. We've been needing that here for a long time. So, we can get ourselves a shine now." 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987

"Mr. Shaw, thank you for that announcement. I'm advised that the Chief of Staff has not... is not the doing that work himself, nor has he placed anybody on the state payroll to do that work. So, that whoever that party may be will have to work certainly without state employment, Mr. Shaw. So, that's made very clear. Alright. On page 15 of the Calendar, on the Order of Consent Calendar Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bills."

"Consent Calendar Second Reading, Second Day. House Bill 367, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Insurance Code. Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 404 (sic - House Bill 404), a Bill for an Act to amend certain Acts in relation to sale and use of human body parts. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 407, a Bill for an Act in relation to anatomical gifts, together with Committee Amendment #1. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 465, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 632, a Bill for an Act in relation to revise the law in relation to counties. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 640, a Bill for an Act to amend Hearing Aid Consumer Protection Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 642, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Municipal Code. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 674, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code, together with Committee Amendment #1. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 714, a Bill for an Act to amend the Uniform Commercial Code. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 730, a Bill for an Act to amend the Vital Records Act, together with Committee Amendment #1. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 803, a Bill for an Act to amend the Park District Code. Second Reading of the Bill."

"Third Reading. On page 13 of the Calendar, on 19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Short Debate, appears House Bill 35. Ms. Stern, do you wish to proceed. House Bill 35. Out of the record. On that Order of Business appears House Bill 439, Ms. Currie. 439."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. House Bill 439..."

"Did you wish... Excuse me, Ms. Currie, do you wish to proceed? Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 439, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to Chicago Park District. Third Reading of the Bill."

"The Lady from Cook, Ms. Currie."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. House Bill 439 is a simple conveyance Bill. It would convey land under the water of Lake Michigan at the northeast corner by the Shedd Aquarium so that the Shedd... from the Department of Transportation to the parks so that the Shedd Aquarium could proceed with its new sea mammal aquarium activity. The Legislature has already supported that program through the Build Illinois funding, and the Department of Transportation, the Governor's office supports this simple land transfer. I'd be happy to answer questions and I would appreciate your support."

"The Lady from Cook moves for the passage of House Bill 439. And on that, does anyone stand in opposition? The Gentleman from DuPage, Mr. McCracken."

"Mr. Speaker, I'd like to remove this Bill from Short Debate. I'm joined by the requisite number of colleagues."

"Indeed, proceed, Sir. Do you wish to address the Bill?"

"Please."

"Proceed."

"Will the Sponsor yield?" 20  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987

"Indicates she'll yield for questions."

"Representative, how much land is involved in this conveyance?"

"I believe it's less than..."

"It's approximately two acres, right?"

"Yeah, 2.01 acres."

"And is the land to be improved in any way. Is it to be drained and used for Shedd Aquarium purposes?"

"It is... it is... what the Shedd Aquarium is doing is building around that chunk of land at its northeast corner a new ocean by the Lake so that sea mammals can be viewed at the Aquarium as well as the fish that are presently there."

"So, it will be an outdoor aquarium as an adjunct to the indoor aquarium."

"That's exactly right."

"And is there any funding necessary to build that or is... is there any contemplation for funding?"

"My understanding is that the project will cost 38,000,000 dollars. The Governor allocated 5,000,000 dollars in Build Illinois funding to help support that project. The rest of the money, as I understand it, will be raised by the Aquarium."

"That will be general obligation bonds of the Aquarium, Chicago Park District Museum matched fund bonds."

"That's my understanding, Representative."

"On those matched fund bonds, is any State of Illinois appropriation or money used in order to come up with the matching part?"

"I do not believe for this purpose there is any matching fund from the state."

"Alright. Now..."

"We do have a separate program of direct support to 21  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 museums on park district land, and that would include the Shedd Aquarium, but I believe that is operation support, not building or capital expansion support."

"Has the Corps of Engineers conducted any impact study to determine whether this is a compatible use?"

"Yes, it has, Representative."

"What was the result of that study?"

"My understanding is that the Corps of Engineers plans to give final approval to the project as soon as we pass House Bill 439."

"Has a... an appraisal been made of this land for purposes of conveyance?"

"The Department of Transportation in encouraging support for this Bill did not suggest that an appraisal had been organized."

"However, we have a requirement for conveyances that an appraisal accompany a bill to convey. Has an opinion been passed upon whether or not that appraisal for purposes of our rules is necessary?"

"I think that that requirement doesn't apply for intergovernmental transfers. I don't know how you would appraise the value of the beach bottom that itself is under water. I'm not quite sure what valuation procedure would be appropriate."

"Well, surely the appraisal requirement relates to intergovernmental conveyances. We've had that experience all the time of attempts of local municipalities to convey to either the state or vice versa."

"Representative, I would expect that the Illinois Department of Transportation, the Governor's road, highway and lake front bottom agency, would surely have done all that was required for them to decide to support House Bill 439." 22  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987

"All that was required of them, I'm talking about a House rule which requires an appraisal before a land conveyance can be made. I have nothing further, Mr. Speaker."

"Pardon? The Lady from Cook, Ms. Pullen. The Gentleman from Winnebago, Mr. Hallock."

"Thank you. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"Indicates she will."

"With the legendary lake levels of recent years, especially within the last couple of years, I think we've all witnessed erosion of the shore lines, not only in Chicago, but also other parts of Illinois, Michigan and also Wisconsin. What will reclaiming two more acres of water over land do to that issue?"

"I think that's a very good question, Representative. The question was asked in Committee, and I'm sure that the Department of Transportation and the Army Corps of Engineers considered that issue before deciding to support this project. My understanding is that if this event... this Aquarium were even larger than it will be, displacement would amount to three one thousands of an inch. So, less than three one thousands and an inch. And I think for that reason neither the Army Corps of Engineers nor the State Department of Transportation thought there was a problem with this project."

"Well, two acres of submerged land, it seems like the Shedd Aquarium area now, if you walk on the east side, is partially under water. That area, of course, at one time was a bike trail and now is almost completely submerged. It seems to me that when you displace two acres of water, submerged land, that you actually eventually talk about more than just two acres. It would seems to me overall that a two acre tract... I suppose you talk in terms of 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 inches, but the overall impact on the Chicago area vicinity itself, would you know what that would be?"

"I'm sorry, I didn't hear."

"Well, the question was on the direct impact, for example, on the Lake Shore Drive area, which, you know, Lake Shore Drive, during the past couple of years, has frequently been closed because of high water, especially during storms and so on. To replace that would cost billions. Are we, in essence, here establishing a program which will set up that in process as well?"

"No, and there is no risk to Lake Shore Drive by virtue of this aquarium proposal. Maybe I could answer also a prior question that I was not able to answer when it was addressed, and that is the issue of real estate appraisals and House rules. House Rule 34(g), which describes our actions in respect to land tranfers, exempts from a filing requirement any conveyance other than a governmental unit or agency as the transferee."

"Well, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, I think I, like most Members on this side of the aisle, take great pride in the tremendous facility... the Shedd Aquarium, in fact, is. But at this point in time, I have great reservation about this issue. To take back from the lake two acres of submerged land, I'm not really sure what the impact of that will be on Lake Shore... the Lake Shore itself and the Illinois... Chicago area and the rest of Illinois. So, I would urge this be defeated at this point in time."

"Gentleman from Livingston, Mr. Ewing."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I wonder if the Sponsor would yield? The Sponsor yield?"

"Indicates she'll for questions."

"Representative, I'm sure this question has been asked, 24  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 but there's so little order in here that I can't... I couldn't hear. What effect does this have if they fill this ground on the level of the lake?"

"Virtually, none. If the project were 250 times its proposed size, it would raise the level of the lake by about the depth of one side of one plastic baggie. I think you might call that negligible..."

"You mean... you mean, it would raise it several inches?"

"No. I said, if the project were 250 times larger than its proposed size, it would raise the lake level as much as one side of a plastic baggie."

"Alright. Do they intend to..."

"It's an imprecise definition. How about if I said less than three one thousands of an inch."

"Of course, you know every little rain drop makes for the flood."

"Right."

"Yes. Are they planning on filling the entire area and building on it?"

"I'm sorry."

"Are they going to fill the entire area and use it for a building site in addition?"

"No. My understanding is, there is a really quite nice book, and maybe you'd like to come and have a look at it. My understanding is that it's really the externals so that all the little sea animals will have an opportunity to splash about and be viewed by the assembled tourists, downstaters, city residents, and all of us who are interested in aquatic life."

"Does this aquarium museum get funds through the legislation we passed last year to allocate, I believe it was some of the race horse money?"

"Which monies... my understanding is that the Governor 25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 allocated 5,000,000 dollars in Build Illinois funds for help in this capital construction project. Additionally, through the State Department of Energy and Natural Resources, there is a small program of operational, not capital development support, for museums in this state, among them the museums on park district land. I believe that total is around 3,000,000, and there are some 21 of 25 museums that participate in that funding, but that money, as I understand it, is operational money and is not involved in this capital construction project."

"Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I'm sure this is a very worthwhile project and I can tell one that has the very deep interest of this Body because of the amount of order and attention that it seems to be receiving, but I think there are several things about this Bill that make it somewhat untolerable to me. First of all, everything that we do to the lake as far as filling on the lake, increases the problem of the high water level. Second, we're using money for this that comes from the race horse industry and none of that money is going to downstate museums, only to museums and in the City of Chicago. I think that's unfair. I think it's an unfair way to fund it. And for those reasons, I would suggest that we give this a 'no' vote and send it back to the Committee. I would also think there would be some serious ecology problems here with dumping all that waste in the lake to use as fill."

"Lady from Cook, Ms. Parcells."

"Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also rise in opposition to this Bill. I represent many miles of lakeshore up north of this area. And my constituents are aware, as I think every Member of this House is, that any time you fill in the lake, you're going to have an adverse effect up stream and 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 down stream, one or both. At the time, we were talking about filling for the World's Fair, as you may remember, there were threats from other states, Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan, that they would file a lawsuit against us for tampering with the lake. I have heard it on rather good authority that if this goes through and we fill at this site, they will initiate a lawsuit against the State of Illinois for doing this. And for those reasons, I am opposed to this Bill."

"Ms. Currie, to close."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. I think the discussion of this Bill has gone far beyond its contents. There is no money involved in this Bill at all. It is merely a land transfer, 2.01 acres of lake bottom land from the Illinois Department of Transportation to the Shedd Aquarium for purposes of a construction project that will not effectively raise lake levels. The Bill has the support of the environmental community, the Chicago Park District, the Governor of the State of Illinois, the operators of the Shedd Aquarium, environmental groups across the state and the Army Corps of Engineers. I would appreciate your support for House Bill 439 so this project can continue. And the additional 40,000,000 dollars in tourist money that will be spent because this aquatic museum is available can begin to fill the state treasury coffers in Illinois."

"Mr. Terzich, were you seeking recognition on this Bill or..."

"Yes, I would like to speak on the Bill."

"Well, I didn't see your light. With leave, we'll let you speak. Gentleman have leave? Proceed, Sir."

"Well, yes, Mr. Speaker. No... this particular Bill, which received favorable support in the Committee, simply 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 deeds over some land which is a bottom land in Lake Michigan, which we did hear testimony which wouldn't make a difference one way or another. If they're trying to figure that this is going to have some problem with Lake Michigan erosion or diversion of water, this is an absolutely ridiculous statement that all of sudden that we become part of the Army Corps of Engineers. This Bill has received favorable support from everybody that I know of. It's going to allow one of the finest attractions in the entire State of Illinois, which is the Shedd Aquarium, which is the largest aquarium within the United States, which has drawn many, many people from all, not only different parts of the United States, from all over the world as one of the great attraction in the midwest. And for us not to support this type of legislation is really sort of ridiculous and especially those people who are concerned about lake diversion. We've supported many, many programs that cost substantial more money whether it's with the zoos or the downstate agriculture or fairgrounds, or whatever you have, but this is one great attraction for the City of Chicago in the entire State of Illinois, and all it does is just to allow the land transfer. And I would urge your support of this Bill."

"The question is, 'Shall this pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are 69 voting 'aye', 43 voting 'no', 4 voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On the Order of House Bills Third Reading, Short Debate, appears House Bill 441. Mr. Dunn, did you wish proceed? Mr. Clerk, read the Bill." 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987

"House Bill 441, a Bill for an Act in relation to tax exemptions from certain businesses, enterprises and amending certain Acts herein named. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 441 is essentially a piece of clean up legislation. I don't know of any opposition. It removes what is called the 'but for' clause from one aspect of the enterprise zone legislation to enable those who plan to make investments to do so in such a way it will be advantageous to them and to the taxpayers of the State of Illinois. And I request an 'aye' vote."

"Gentleman from Macon has moved for the passage of House Bill 441. And on that, is there any discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall this Bill pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final action. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk, take the record. On this question there are one hundred and... Mr. Mulcahey 'aye'. On this question there are 110 voting 'aye', none voting 'no', and none voting 'present'. This Bill, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Breslin in the Chair."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, we are going to the Order of Concurrences. It appears on page 16 on your Calendar. Representative Hallock, for what reason do you rise? Representative Hallock."

"Madam Speaker, on the Order of Short Debate, we went through three Democratic Bills. We're now on House Bill 579, Larry Wennlund. It seems only proper that, having done three Democratic Bills, it will be logical and proper that we proceed on that Order of Business and call his Bill 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 which is next."

"Representative Hallock, we have housekeeping chores to do, et cetera, and so, it is time to move from that Order of Business."

"Well, Madam Speaker, I'm all in order of... in favor of keeping the House in order, but the last Bill took thirty second."

"It is certainly not... Representative Hallock. Representative Hallock, it is not intended to disadvantage Representative Wennlund or anyone else, but we must take care of this Order of Business, plus other Orders of Business. We are going to the Order of Concurrence. House Joint Resolution #1. And on that question... Representative Hallock, for what reason do you rise?"

"Well, no matter what the intention is, it's very clear that you're skipping his Bill. There were three Bills you called. The last Bill took thirty seconds. You could probably be done with his Bill in another thirty seconds, and you can be done with that Order of Business and move on."

"Representative Hallock, as I recall, you participated in a large discussion on another Bill just prior to that that took a lot more than thirty minutes... thirty seconds, I should say."

"It was a good discussion, too, wasn't it?"

"Oh, it was a great discussion."

"It was a good discussion and a bad Bill."

"As a consequence, we have run out of time. We are on the Order of Concurrence. House Joint Resolution #1. Do you wish to speak to this Joint Resolution, Representative Churchill. For what reason do you rise, Representative Churchill?"

"Madam Speaker, I concur with Representative Hallock's 30  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 feelings on this, and I question the Sponsor of the next Bill that was up, and he said it will only take thirty seconds. Just thirty seconds."

"Representative... Representative Churchill. Representative Churchill, the Chair has the right to change the Order of Business at any time."

"I understand. Right, but the... "

"We have done so in an effort to move the Business of this House. We are going to the Order of Concurrences. House Joint Resolution #1. And on that question... Representative McCracken, for what reason do you rise?"

"A point of Order, Madam Speaker. I'd ask the Chair to reconsider its decision to move. Whether it makes this move in good faith or not, it's not really material. You create the impression, the Chair creates the impression that it is discriminating against this Membership. You've created Subcommittees to discriminate against this Membership. You are proposing Committee Bills which will be controlled only by Democrats in detriment to this side of the aisle, and now, when we come to a Republican Member's Bill after having had three Bills of Democrats called and then you go to another Democrat Resolution, you create the appearance which leaves you vulnerable to these charges, Madam Speaker. And I ask you and the real Speaker to consider that."

"Representative McCracken."

"When the time comes when you'll need our cooperation."

"Representative McCracken... Representative McCracken, we'll consider that. Representative Greiman, on House Joint Resolution #1."

"Thank you, Speaker. I would that the House do 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Joint Resolution 1."

"The Gentleman has moved to nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Joint Resolution #1. And on that question, the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Senate Amendment... I rise in opposition to the Gentleman's Motion to nonconcur, and if it fails, we'll make a Motion to concur. Senate Amendment #1 would restore the Committee size, as originally proposed, to 13 Members. Four Legislators from each chamber, four public members, who are to be appointed by the four House and Senate leaders, and one Member by the Governor's designee. That Member from the Governor will be a voting Member. That is necessary to retain the political balance which the Amendment seeks to enforce upon Mr. Madigan's Select Joint Committee. I encourage all of my colleagues to vote against this Motion to concur... to nonconcur. And if it fails, we'll be making that Motion. I also demand a... an electrical Roll Call."

"Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, Representative Greiman, to close."

"Thank you. Well, the Amendment is patently unfair and patently disregards equity. The notion was originally, when we began this in a prior year, that there would equity between the two parties. And so, the Democrats and Republicans had the same number. The Republicans chose not to show up. The Committee never met. A quorum was never had. Now, the Democrats come and say, 'Well, let's give it a Democratic balance then'. We send the Resolution across with a Democratic Majority. It comes back not even with equity or parity, it's come back with a Republican Majority. The Governor of this state is a Republican. So, 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 we find, then, that we have responsibilities of the House of Representatives and the Senate of this state to redo the health care regulations of this state. 67 Democrats and 31 Democrats in the Senate are to be essentially put in a Minority position on this Committee. That makes no sense. We would be willing indeed to go back to the rule of the previous Session and have an equal number of Democrats and Republicans, but to expect a Democrat... 67 Democrats, 68 Democrats, that's right, I'm sorry, 68 Democrats to vote away their Majority is insane. Therefore, I ask that we nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Joint Resolution 1."

"The question is, 'Shall the House nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Joint Resolution #1?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 67 voting 'aye', 48 voting 'no', and none voting 'present', and the House does nonconcur in Senate Amendment #1 to House Joint Resolution #1. Since we have five minutes left, we're going to go back to House Bills Third Reading Short Debate Calendar. Representative Wennlund. Clerk, read the Bill. House Bill 579."

"House Bill 579"

"Excuse me. Excuse me. Representative McCracken, for what reason do you rise?"

"Just to thank the Chair for seeing the light of our argument."

"Representative... Mr. Clerk, continue, please."

"House Bill 579, a Bill for an Act to amend the Township Law. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Wennlund."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. This 33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 Bill amends the Township Act by extending the power of townships to make public improvements and infrastructure improvements, like sidewalks and street lights in unincorporated areas of townships in counties of a population of 300,000 or more instead of 400,000. The current Act only permits these types of improvements in counties with a population in excess of 400,000. This would merely amend that provision to three counties of 300,000 or more."

"This Bill is on the Order of Short Debate. Does anyone rise in opposition? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 579 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Representative Parke, for what reason do you rise? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 110 voting 'aye', 4 voting 'no', and 1 voting 'present', and the House passes House Bill 579. House Bill 615, Representative Homer. Clerk, read the Bill."

"House Bill 615, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Third Reading of the Bill."

"Representative Homer."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Under present law an individual charged with theft under 300 dollars would ordinarily have a misdemeanor charge. Although the statute provides that on a second or subsequent offense, that it is elevated or enhanced to a Class 4 Felony. This Bill clarifies what is... created some confusion in practice, that being, number one, whether the occurrence of the prior offense needs to be alleged in the indictment or complaint, and secondly, whether the prior offense need to be proved as an element of the offense. The Bill says, yes, it has to be alleged in the indictment. No, it does not have to 34  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 be proved and any other result would have defendant subjected to introduction of testimony of prior convictions which certainly could be prejudicial to the defendant's cause. The second part of the Bill addresses a proposition set forth in People versus Jackson, an 1984 Illinois Supreme Court case concerning the charge of theft over 300 dollars. The Supreme Court in that case said that the element of the value of the property stolen is not to be a requirement to be proven as an element of the offense by the prosecution, but rather is to be consider only by the Judge in determining at sentencing whether this is a felony or misdemeanor. This case... this House Bills says that... that the value would, in fact, be an element of the offense and must be proved as an element beyond a reasonable doubt. I would entertain any questions and move for its passage."

"This Bill is on the Order of Short Debate. Does anyone rise in opposition? Representative Young."

"Yes, thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"

"He indicates he will."

"I'd just like a clarification. Does the... did you state that the prior offense does not have to be proved?"

"That's correct, Representative Young, and.. because the statute is currently silent. In practice, I understand it varies according to the Judge's interpretation. Some require that the prior offense be proven and,; of course, if that's the ruling of the court, it's highly prejudicial to a defendant. So, this Bill says that it's not an element of the offense. It must be alleged, but it's not an element of the offense."

"Representative Homer, isn't the underlying or the purpose of the Bill to make the second conviction a felony rather than a misdemeanor?"

"Well, that's current law. The second conviction is a 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 felony under current law, so the Bill doesn't change that. It just deals with the manner in which the prosecution goes about establishing that element."

"Well, this Bill would make it possible for a prior conviction to be alledged and then someone to be sentenced, as if he had a prior conviction, without proving the prior conviction. So, if, in fact, there was no prior conviction under this Bill, somebody would still be charged and convicted of a felony if, in fact, it should be a misdemeanor."

"Well, I don't believe that is the intent nor the accomplishment of the Bill. I don't believe, Representative Young. It would still be incumbent on the prosecution to establish at the time of sentencing the validity of the prior conviction so that there would be an ample opportunity for the defendant to object to the allegation if, in fact, there's no basis for it. But, the purpose again is to keep this highly prejudicial information away from the trier fact, away from the jury so as to not taint the jury in these cases against the defendant."

"Is the indictment read to the jury in this Bill?"

"It should not be. The indictment should not, under any circumstances, in my view, be read to the jury, and I would certainly think that would be a highly improper thing for the court to do."

"Thank you."

"If there is no further discussion, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 615 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative... Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 114 voting 36  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 'aye', none voting 'no', and 1 voting 'present'. And the House does adopt House Bill 615. Ladies and Gentlemen, we're going to the Order of Speaker's Table. And on that Order, House joint Resolutions only. The first one that appears is House Joint Resolution 18. Out of the record. House Joint Resolution 43. Out of the record. House Joint Resolution 56, Representative Madigan - Currie. Read the Resolution, Mr. Clerk."

"House Joint Resolution 56, creates a Joint Committee on Welfare Reform. Rules Committee recommends 'be adopted'."

"Representative Currie."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. This creates a Joint Committee, a Senate/House Committee, to look at issues involved in welfare reform. A strong initiative, one supported by Democrats and Republicans alike, and strong initiative recommended by the Governor for serious consideration by the Legislature this Session. I'd be happy to answer questions, and I'd appreciate your support."

"The Lady has moved for the adoption of House Joint Resolution 56. And on that question, the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would you tell me, Representative, the composition of the Membership?"

"I don't have a copy of the Resolution right here. My recollection is that there are three Legislative Members appointed by the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate, two public members appointed again by each, two Legislative Members, appointed by the Minority Leader in the House and the Minority Leader in the Senate, and one public member appointed by each of those."

"Okay. I didn't quite catch that. What is the break 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 down?"

"I'm sorry. It's five Legislators by each of the Majority Party Leaders and two public members, three Legislative Members by each of the Minority Leaders and two public... and one public member a piece."

"And what is the purpose of this Commission?"

"The purpose of the Committee is to help review the Governor's welfare proposals, review welfare proposals that have come from others, report the General Assembly by June 1, 1987. The Resolution was offered by Representatives Rock... Representative Madigan and Senator Rock, because there is, I believe, a lot of bipartisan support for the Governor's welfare initiatives."

"And..."

"The Joint Committee offers us an opportunity to look at the issue conjointly with the chamber on the other side of the rotunda, to do so in a bipartisan manner, to permit public participation so that what we finally do this Session, and perhaps next year as well, in the area of reforming the public welfare system, is action that will be understood... well understood by everybody."

"It is correct that there are a lot of welfare reform Bills pending in various Committees of the Legislature at this time. Is that right?"

"That is right."

"Are you Chairman of Human Services, Ma'am?"

"No, I'm not."

"But you serve on it."

"Pardon me?"

"Do you serve on it?"

"No."

"Okay. Do you happen to know how many Bills are in on that issue?" 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987

"I would guess upwards of thirty in this chamber... in this chamber, and I don't know what the numbers are in the Senate."

"Oh, I... Yeah, I'm sorry. I said Human Services, I meant State Government Administration."

"I am the Chairman of State Government Administration."

"And is that where they're located?"

"There are several welfare reform proposals in State Government Administration. There are several in the Human Services Committee. I would not be surprised if there are other pieces of programs in the Special Committee on Children in other Committees as well."

"Okay. What do you plan to do as Chairman of your Committee while this Commission conducts its investigation? Are you going to be hearing and reporting out these Bills?"

"That is my present plan, but I... It is certainly possible, with a June 1st reporting date, that the full Assembly might decide to defer action on... final action on welfare proposals until that time, but I think that decision, were it made, would be made as a bipartisan decision and with the support, not the opposition, of the Governor and his Department of Public Aid."

"What if the Minority were in opposition to holding up those Bills, is it your position that you would have those Bills voted upon and move them through the process?"

"It is my position that the establishment of this Joint House/Senate Committee, as proposed in House Joint Resolution 56, will enable us to reach bipartisan consensus on the best way to approach welfare reform in Illinois in 1987. And it is my position that a bipartisan, by House, by chamber program will enable us to do the best job with the least amount of friction and fractiousness."

"The Governor has already had a task force on welfare 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 reform which is already reported. Are you aware of that?"

"I have seen the report of the Governor's task force on welfare reform."

"Are you aware of the fact that that welfare reform has been introduced in the form of legislation in House Bill 2853?"

"And House Bill 2862. Those two Bills embody the Governor's proposals. As I say..."

"And are the Sponsors of each Bill a Republican?"

"Pardon me, Representative?"

"Are the Sponsors, the Chief Sponsors of each of those Bills, Republican?"

"I believe they are."

"And assuming that the other side of the aisle chooses not to proceed with those Bills, it's your position that this Joint Committee should be looking for a bipartisan consensus. Is that right?"

"Representative, you're making assumptions about what decisions will be made. My point is that if we want a bipartisan, bichamber process, if the Legislature wants to do anything other than rubber stamp the Governor's proposals, an activity that I never known you to support without careful looks, careful investigation of the Governor's plan, then supporting House Resolution 56 is the best way that we can... that we can do that."

"Touche'. Okay. To the Resolution, Madam Speaker."

"Proceed."

"I believe that really the Resolution is, in fact, what I implied that it was. It was an attempt to co-opt the work that the Governor's task force has already done on this subject and co-oped it for purely political partisan reasons. There is no intimation by any person that the Governor's task force did an inadequate job. If people 40  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 want to vote against the particular part of that proposal, they are free to do so. If they want to get on as cosponsors of that proposal, they are free to do so. But I submit to you that this Resolution is nothing more than a guise for co-opting and using, for the Democrats purposes, good ideas from the Governor's task force, good ideas embodied in Republican legislation that the other side of the aisle does not want to have credited to the Republican Party. We have sought long and hard to come to grips with this issue. The Governor's task force should be commended. Representative Daniels and the other Sponsors should be commended. To allow us to be co-opted at this point, under the guise a bipartisan commission, is only that, a guise. There is no intention to use this Bill or to use this Resolution to do anything but control the issue of welfare reform. It's unnecessary. Be satisfied with your Majority. Use it properly. Don't abuse it. I ask all of my fellow Republicans to vote against this Resolution."

"The Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Ewing."

"Yes. Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, I think that the last speaker adequately set forth a number of the reasons that we shouldn't be voting for this Bill, but I'd like to speak just a minute about the way the Speaker, and yes, the Sponsor of this Motion, has used the Committee system to develop an issue. And yet, for this issue, one that there are many Bills in on, she doesn't want to use that because it doesn't fit into the Speaker's plan or to hers."

"Representative... Representative Ewing."

"Yes."

"You must confine your remarks to the Resolution at hand." 41  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987

"I am. I'm confining my remarks to why this is such a terrible Resolution, and why we should beat it, because we are again playing into the Speaker's plan to consolidate his power when this Sponsor uses her Committee and her fancy Subcommittees to subvert the activities of the Minority, I think we've gone too far. We only have dog and pony shows when she wants to put her Bill up. And she fills the room, everybody else goes to Subcommittee. She needs to learn the fairness of a bipartisan approach to legislation, and I suggest, Madam Speaker, that we vote 'no' on this. Thank you."

"Representative Ewing. Representative Hallock, do you wish to speak to this Resolution?"

"Well, yes, Madam Speaker, I do, and I appreciate you calling on me. I have a question, first of all."

"Proceed."

"Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"

"She will."

"I think enough can't be said, really, about what's going on here today, and it has gone on here in the last couple of weeks regarding the Committees and Subcommittees processes. I think my question has to be said, again, it has been said before, and that is, first of all, why can't this be done by the Committee that normally would handle this issue?"

"My answer, Representative, would be that, for whatever reason, the Committee on Assignment chose not to send all welfare reform proposals to a single Standing Committee of this chamber. Secondly, I think in an area as important as this, one where the Governor has certainly made worthwhile proposals, it behooves us in the short time remaining to us through the rest of this Session, to work in conjunction with our colleagues in the Senate. If we can work in a 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 bipartisan, bichamber fashion to assess the value of a variety of welfare reform proposals, I think that we will find we will not be so fractious. We will end up with a better work product and one that is better understood by the Members of both chambers and by the public as well."

"Well, then secondly, why couldn't this be handled if you want to have that kind of scrutiny and that kind of input by one of your pseudo Subcommittees which have been established recently."

"But I think I explained already, in answer to your question, that for whatever reason, I'm not a Member of the Committee on Assignments, so I don't know what the reason might be, but for whatever reason all the welfare reform proposals did not end up in my Committee, nor did they end up in any other individual Committee. Even have they, the issue of working conjointly with the Senate cannot be handled by the standing Committee structure of this House of Representatives."

"Well, Madam Speaker, Members of the House, unfortunately, is the continuing pattern of truly trying to obfuscate the entire General Assembly processes. We have too many Committees. We have too many Subcommittees. Now, the Majority Party's again trying to bring back the commission process. We, in the General Assembly, here a couple of years ago took a strong stand to, first of all, save money for the people of this state; second of all, make the process more easily to understand by abolishing Commissions and Committees. We have here, in this Bill, another proposal to bring back the Commission system, but really what we have here is an attempt to, not only take over the process we've established here, but also to abolish all Commissions and really make it more confusing for all of us. The tragedy here today, I suppose, is that 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 not enough people are really paying attention of what's going on. We have a record number of Committees in this chamber. We have a record number of Subcommittees. Now, we're going to have some Commissions as well, and I would hope the media pay attention to that fact. It's getting to become virtually impossible to track legislation in this chamber because of all the Committees, Subcommittees and Commissions which are being created by the Majority Party. We all know that this issue, of course, is one in which we have traditionally been divided. Republicans have stood for legends on behalf of welfare reform. The President, Lee Daniels and others have always said, "We need to reform the welfare process to ensure that those who need the help will get it, but those who don't will not. We're clear on that issue. We don't have to have another Committee to say we're for welfare reform. This is a sham. Vote 'no'."

"Representative Currie, to close."

"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Members of the House. I don't understand the partisan paranoia that has involved itself in the discussion of House Joint Resolution 56. Representative Daniels, a Republican, has introduced some of the administration's reform proposals in the House. Senator Rock, I believe a Democrat, has introduced some of those same proposals in the Senate. There is nothing partisan about House Joint Resolution 56. The Governor's welfare reform task force was comprised of agencies of the State Government. There were no legislative members of that task force. There were no members of the public, either. House Joint Resolution 56 would enable the Members of the House and of the Senate, together in a bipartisan fashion, with the help of public members to assess all welfare reform initiatives introduced in this Session of the Assembly. The Committee will report June 1, 1987. I 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 think if we want to do this job in a bipartisan fashion, with the concern for the public, then passage of House Joint Resolution 56 is the way to go. I'd appreciate your support."

"The question is, 'Shall the House adopt House Joint Resolution 56?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. 60 votes are required for adoption of this Resolution. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 67 voting 'aye', 47 voting 'no', and none voting 'present', and the House does adopt House Joint Resolution 56. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are preparing to adjourn. I have an announcement... I have an announcement about a former Member. Former Representative Gail Schisler had a brain aneurysm yesterday. He is in St. Francis hospital in Peoria. His condition is listed as serious. If you wish to contact him or his family, you can probably reach them at St. Francis hospital. Representative Currie, for what reason do you rise?"

"For a request to waive the posting requirements so that House Bill 1918 may be heard in the Subcommittee on Equality and Delivery of State Services and State Government Administration, Wednesday at 6:00. It was posted last week. The Committee adjourned before the Bill was held. It was inadvertently not reposted this week. This request has been cleared with the Minority Spokesman on the State Government Administration Committee, Representative Parcells."

"Representative Currie has asked for leave to waive the posting rules on House Bill 1918. Is there any objections? Hearing none, the posting rules are waived, Representative Currie. Representative Terzich, for what 45  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 reason do you rise?"

"Yes, Madam Speaker, just a reminder for the Members of the Executive Committee, that the Executive Committee will not be meeting in Room 114. They will be meeting on the House floor at 8:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. That's the Executive and Veteran's Affair Committee at 8:00 a.m. on the House floor."

"Representative Wait, for what reason do you rise?"

"Thank you, Madam Chairman. I make a Motion to waive the posting requirements on House Bill 2377. It's suppose to be for the Agriculture Committee. I've cleared this with the Chairman of that Committee, and he said it's fine with him."

"Representative Wait has asked that the posting rules be waived for House Bill 2377, so that it can be heard in the Agriculture Committee. Is there any objection? Hearing no objection, the rule is waive, Representative Wait. Representative Flinn, for what reason do you rise?"

"Madam Speaker, the purpose of my arising is to clear up some confusion about the Financial Institutions Committee meeting today. Normally, we meet at 4:00. Today the Subcommittee will meet at 4:00 and the regular Full Committee will meet at 4:40. Both meetings is in Room 118."

"Thank you, Representative Flinn. Representative Giglio, for an announcement. Representative Giglio."

"Hello. Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Democrats would like permission to have a 15 or 20 minute Caucus immediately following adjournment in Room 114."

"Democratic Members, there will be a Caucus 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 immediately following adjournment in Room 114. It will be short Caucus, so please be prompt. Representative McPike moves that this House stand adjourned until 12:30, 12:30 tomorrow afternoon. Before we adjourn, the Clerk will read the Agreed Resolutions."

"House Joint Resolution 61, offered by Speaker Madigan and Representative Daniels. House Resolutions 299, Slater; 300, Panayotovich; 301, Hensel; 303, Barnes; 304, Parke; 305, Wennlund; 306, Rea; 307, Krska; 308, Preston; and 311, Hensel and Ronan."

"Representative Matijevich. Representative Matijevich. Representative Matijevich moves the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it, and the Agreed Resolutions are adopted. General Resolutions."

"Senate Joint Resolution 10, offered by Representative Christensen and Van Duyne. House Resolution 309, by Currle. And 310, by Pangle."

"Committee on Assignments and Death Resolutions."

"House Resolution 302, offered by Representative Wyvetter Younge, with respect to the memory of Mr. Clyde Jordan."

"Representative Matijevich moves the adoption of the Death Resolutions. All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. And the Death Resolution is adopted. Senate Bill First Reading."

"Senate Bill 52, Leverenz, a Bill for an Act making appropriation to various state agencies. First Reading of the Bill."

"Now, Representative Greiman moves that the 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 36th Legislative Day April 28, 1987 House stand adjourned until 12:30 tomorrow. All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. And this House stands adjourned until 12:30 tomorrow." 48  05/28/87 STATE OF ILLINOIS 15:38 85TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX PAGE 1 APRIL 28, 1987 HB-0367 SECOND READING PAGE 19 HB-0404 SECOND READING PAGE 19 HB-0407 SECOND READING PAGE 19 HB-0439 THIRD READING PAGE 20 HB-0441 THIRD READING PAGE 29 HB-0465 SECOND READING PAGE 19 HB-0579 THIRD READING PAGE 33 HB-0615 THIRD READING PAGE 34 HB-0632 SECOND READING PAGE 19 HB-0640 SECOND READING PAGE 19 HB-0642 SECOND READING PAGE 19 HB-0674 SECOND READING PAGE 19 HB-0714 SECOND READING PAGE 19 HB-0730 SECOND READING PAGE 19 HB-0803 SECOND READING PAGE 19 SB-0052 FIRST READING PAGE 47 SB-0056 FIRST READING PAGE 3 SB-0161 FIRST READING PAGE 3 HJR-0001 NON-CONCURRENCE PAGE 31 HJR-0056 ADOPTED PAGE 37 SUBJECT MATTER HOUSE TO ORDER - REPRESENTATIVE GREIMAN PAGE 1 PRAYER - REVERAND PAUL SCHWARTZ PAGE 1 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE PAGE 1 ROLL CALL FOR ATTENDANCE PAGE 1 COMMITTEE REPORTS PAGE 1 AGREED RESOLUTIONS PAGE 47 GENERAL RESOLUTIONS PAGE 47 DEATH RESOLUTIONS PAGE 47 ADJOURNMENT PAGE 48