"The House will come to order. The Chaplain for today will be the Reverend J. Keele, from the First Baptist Church of Stonington. Reverend Keele is a guest of Representative Hasara."
"Let us all stand and go to our Lord in prayer. Dear gracious heavenly Father, Lord we come to You today, just thanking You first of all for the privilege of prayer and for the knowledge of knowing that You answer these prayers, that You hear from us. Lord we thank You that we live in a society in which we can worship You without any fear of persecution or imprisonment. We thank You for the freedom of this society in which we have, the freedom of speech, the freedom of religion. Lord we come to You today asking that You would be with this governing body as they go yet into another day of legal activities. Be with them, watching them, guiding them in their every decision. Let it be for all for Your glory. In the name of Your son Jesus we pray. Amen."
"We'll be led in the Pledge of Alliance by the Lady from Cook, Representative Didrickson."
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"Roll Call for Attendance. Mr. Piel."
"No excused absences today, Mr. Speaker."
"Representative Matijevich."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker. On this side of the aisle we have Representative Christensen, Preston and Hicks...Hicks as excused absences. The first two for illness, the last...Representative Hicks, a death in the family."
"Mr. Lucco, would you punch in Representative 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Curran, McGann, O'Connell and Wolf? These Gentlemen have just walked in the front door here. Thank you, Mr. Lucco. And Mr. Clerk, would you place Representative Hicks on the Roll Call? He just walked in. Mistakenly identified as an excused absence. Mr. Hicks. Take the record. 115 people answering the Roll Call. A quorum is present. And we're ready to go. Senate Bills First Reading."
"Senate Bill 1655, a Bill for an Act relating to the call of a Constitutional Convention. First Reading of the Bill."
"...authority. Consent Calendar, Second Reading, Second Day. Mr. Clerk, read the Bills."
"Consent Calendar. Second Reading, Second Day, House Bill 2909, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2932, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to provide for the casual defects or failures in revenue. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 2960, a Bill for an Act to amend the Code of Criminal Procedures. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3017, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3105, a Bill for an Act to amend the Civil Administrative Code. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3142, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3195, a Bill for an Act to amend the Senior Citizens Real Estate Tax Deferral Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3346, a Bill for an Act to amend the Senior Citizens Disabled Persons Property Tax Relief. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3417, a Bill for an Act in relation to administration of certain State Tax Acts. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3418, a Bill for an Act to amend the Civil Administrative Code. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3470, a Bill for an Act to amend 2 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 the Charitable Gains Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3492, a Bill for an Act to amend the Senior Citizens and Disabled Persons Property Tax Relief. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3512, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Income Tax Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3726, a Bill for an Act in relation to certain federally subsidized housing together with Committee Amendment #1. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 4197, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act relating to emergency telephone communication. Second Reading of the Bill."
"Third Reading. On page 2 of the Calendar, under Special Order of Business, State and Local Government. We're going to do those Bills under this special order of business that are on Second Reading, move them to Third Reading and then we will start and go through all Third Reading Bills. Representative McCracken."
"I know it was continued from yesterday. It reads 12 noon in the Calendar."
"I think the Motion yesterday was..."
"Call of the Chair."
"Call of the Chair. Okay, the first Bill on Second Reading is House Bill 1729, Representative Hasara. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk. That's on page 4 of the Calendar."
"House Bill 1729, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act providing for a system of probation. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Committee Amendments?"
"No Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"No Floor Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 2422, page 8 of the 3 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Calendar. Representative Levin. Read the Bill Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 2422, a Bill for an Act to amend the Condominium Property Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in committee."
"Any Motions filed?"
"No Motions filed."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"No Floor Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 3007, page 4...page 4 of the Calendar, House Bill 3007, Representative Curran. Representative Curran. Representative Curran here? Out of the record. Page 11 of the Calendar, House Bill 3091, Representative Hicks. Out of the record. House Bill 3104, Representative Breslin. Out of the record. House Bill 3131, Representative Matijevich. Read the Bill Mr. Clerk. That's on page 11 of the Calendar."
"House Bill 3131, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Grant Fund Recovery Act. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Motions...any Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Matijevich."
"Representative Hultgren, for what reason do you rise?"
"Mr. Speaker, I must have missed it when you announced it, I...which order are you on? I was just trying to follow and I can't follow where you're going."
"We're on State and Local Government. Page 2 of the Calendar under Special Order of Business. We're calling those Bills that are still on Second Reading."
"Thank you very much. I apologize for not listening more carefully."
"That's alright. Representative Matijevich, 4 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Amendment #1."
"Yes Mr. Chairman...Mr. Speaker, Members of the House, House Amendment #1 to House Bill 3131 was drafted by DCCA. The Bill as introduced...I handled for the Illinois Association of Community Action Agencies so that those agencies when they receive a federal grant from DCCA, there are cases where they earn interest and the procedures of the agency, now were, that they could not use that interest earned for the specific purpose of the grant. And therefore, they felt that they were in effect punished for doing a good job and investing those funds. The Bill as introduced according to DCCA and some others, was too broad and the Amendment narrows it so that in the...when the grant funds are provided, that the grantor, meaning DCCA, could provide in the grant agreement that the fund interest earned could be used for the specific purpose of the grant. I believe as offered now and adopted, there would be no opposition to the Bill and therefore I move the adoption of Amendment #1."
"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #1. Is there any discussion? Being none, the question is 'Shall Amendment #1 be adopted?' All in favor say 'aye', opposed 'no', the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 3267, Representative DeJaegher. Read the Bill Mr. Clerk. That's on page 15 of the Calendar."
"House Bill 3267, a Bill for an Act to amend the Uniform Code of Corrections. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"No Floor Amendments." 5 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"Representative, I believe this needs an Amendment. Would you take this out of the record? Out of the record, House Bill 3273, Representative Hannig. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk. That's page 5 of the Calendar."
"House Bill 3273, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act relating to Fire Protection. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in committee."
"Motions filed?"
"No Motions filed."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"No Floor...no Floor Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 3304, Representative Wojcik. Out of the record. Good morning, Representative Wojcik. Do you want this Bill read? Mr. Clerk read the Bill. Page 16 in the Calendar. Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3304, a Bill for an Act in relation to State and Local Occupation and Tax and Use Taxes. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in committee."
"Any Motions filed?"
"No Motions filed."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"No Floor Amendments."
"Third Reading. House Bill 3354, Representative Breslin. Lady here? Out of the record. House Bill 3381, Representative LeFlore. Representative Bob LeFlore. House Bill 3381. Read the Bill Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3381, a Bill for an Act in relation to plant closings and relocation. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in committee."
"Any Motions filed?"
"No Motions filed."
"Any Floor Amendments?" 6 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day
Parcells." May 11, 1988 "Floor Amendment #2 offered by Representative
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Amendment establishes "Representative Parcells on Amendment #2." the dislocated worker unit in DCCA, which would help workers without sending a negative message about Illinois to the rest of the country. It contains all the good and productive parts of House Bill 3381 while eliminating that part of the Bill which handcuffs employers and puts State Government in the boardrooms of Illinois companies, where we don't belong, making economic decisions about businesses we know nothing about. Section 11, which is this part my Amendment, becomes the Bill. It addresses that part of the Bill that the State should be involved in, helping Illinois residents to find and keep jobs. The business community is already working to help Illinois by conducting responsible employee practices, responsible collective bargaining, and job creation instead of job loss. Furthermore, Ladies and Gentlemen, this matter is being handled right now at the federal level as we all know. If it passes, Illinois won't need the first 10 Sections of this Bill, and if the President vetoes it and it's not overridden, Illinois will be out of step with the other 49 States. Illinois needs to be on a level playing field with the rest of the country. This Amendment will assure that. I ask for your 'aye' vote on Senate Amendment%...I mean on House Amendment #2 to House Bill 31...3381."
"The Lady moves for the adoption of Amendment #2. Is there any discussion? Representative LeFlore." The Gentleman from Cook,
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I stand in oppose... to Amendment #2 which guts the whole entire Bill. So I will ask my Members on this side of the aisle to 7 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 please oppose this Amendment and vote 'no'."
"Representative McCracken."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I understand Representative LeFlore's request. It's a request we tried to extend to each other as a common courtesy, however, I would ask all of you to think carefully about it in this case. This Bill is too important not to debate fully, not to give a fair opportunity for Amendments on the merits. As a practical matter it's the only opportunity we have to get this issue before you, we don't have any luck moving these types of things out of labor and commerce. It is a very important issue that we're talking about here. I know that it's perceived by your side of the aisle as a labor issue and I know that labor wants this Bill, or some form of it, but I would ask you to think carefully. Labor does not exist in a vacuum. Labor is only available or labor is only in existance where there are jobs offered. And this goes along way toward making Illinois an even more hostile climate for jobs. I know that it isn't the direct issue that you would like to see on it...or the direct response that you would like to see on a labor issue, but the fact is, this is the only practical answer. We have to strike a careful balance between these labor and management issues, and for that reason at least give some serious consideration to this Amendment. And if you consider it on the merits, I think you would agree that it's a wise policy."
"Representative Didrickson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. I rise in support of this Amendment. And I think we ought to carefully consider, as the former speaker mentioned, just what it is that we are doing in Illinois. We are going 8 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 beyond what they are considering at the federal level with regards to plant closing legislation. That same federal initiative has the opportunity to derail the whole trade Bill there. I don't see any reason, at this point in time, why we in Illinois should raise a red flag and say hey, we're going to go beyond what they're even going to do at the federal level. It's premature, I would ask for an 'aye' vote on this Amendment."
"Being no further discussion, Representative Parcells to close."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen this is a very important Amendment. The people of Illinois deserve to keep their jobs. Having notice does not help them to get another job, but this Bill will. This creates the Dislocated Worker Act in DCCA, this is the part of the Bill we really need to enforce to help those people gain and keep their jobs. I ask for your 'aye' vote on Amendment #2."
"The Lady has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2. All those in favor of the Amendment, signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. All voted? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Amendment there are 50 'ayes', and 65 'nos', and 1 voting 'present', the Amendment fails. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #3, offered by Representative B. Pedersen."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Pedersen."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #3 eliminates the civil liability portion of this Bill. It deletes provisions allowing employers to...employees to sue employers for civil damages resulting from violations of the Act. It deletes language that 9 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 includes orders for reinstatement and back pay....among the injunctive relief of the Director of the Department of Labor. In addition to that, it provides for punitive damages. Now this Amendment still helps the workers. It's a very complex and technical Bill, the requirements are complex, and during the period when a company is considering going out of business and with all the problems and the stress, some little slip-up could cause a...this...these civil liability portions of the Bill to go forward. And that would be a terrible mistake. What this is really from an employers standpoint, is a Draconian effort to penalize the employer. You can't help workers by mugging the employers. And I recommend that we pass this Amendment so that it makes it a more workable Bill."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption. Mr. Clerk, will you change the board? It's Amendment #3, Pedersen. Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #3 and on that the Gentleman from Cook, Representative LeFlore."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stand in opposition to this Amendment. This Amendment also hurts the Bill."
"Further discussion? There being none, Representative Pedersen to close."
"I'd ask for a Roll Call on this Amendment, Mr. Speaker..."
"The question is, 'Should Amendment #3 be..."
"to sum up...to sum up on this Amendment, I think we have to remember that Illinois' climate for jobs isn't the greatest and this kind of legislation sends a wrong signal to businesses not only in the State of Illinois, but throughout the country. And it's very important that we go forward and create jobs, not lose them. So I'd recommend this Amendment to you in order to accomplish that 10 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 102nd Legislative Day objection."
"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #3 be adopted?' All in favor of the Amendment signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this Amendment there are 53 'ayes', 62 'nos', Amendment fails. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #4, offered by Representative Didrickson."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Didrickson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. Again, I'm going to reiterate the point that this is a major piece of legislation. Probably the piece of legislation going through this General Assembly this year. The plant closing legislation. A lot of these Amendments, you're just going to tune out, and you're not going to listen to, but I'm going to ask you to listen to this one, because I think this is a very sensitive issue. If you're going to push this piece of legislation on track, at least think about the fact that we are also requiring employers to disclose trade secrets. Amendment #4 here removes that disclosure requirement. If you're going to sit down in consultation with employer and employees before you give...before you shut down or do the mass layoffs, at least you ought to remove the concept that trade secrets are removed out of this legislation. Because I'm going to ask you, in this country if you can't have your own ideas and keep your own ideas without having to disclose and give away trade secrets, you have nothing left. That's why a lot of people came here to the land of opportunity, because they had a better idea and they wanted to be removed from the excessive regulations of government. I'm going to ask you what about the patent system that we have in this 11 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 country? We believe in protecting those rights. We believe in protecting those ideas. That's what the patent is all about in this country. I'm going to ask you what about formula for the syrup for Coca Cola? Is that a trade secret? If I've got a bottling plant in here in this State for Coca Cola, and I have to sit down and determine that I'm going to give my employees notice for sixty days that we're going to shut down, does that mean that I have to give out the trade secret for Coca Cola? This is a good Amendment and I want you to carefully consider it, because it removes that disclosure part on trade secrets. I ask for a Roll Call vote and an 'aye' vote."
"The Lady moves for the adoption of Amendment #4. And on that the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."
"Yes, would the Sponsor yield?"
"She will."
"Representative Didrickson, on a...if you look at the Bill on page 4 Section 6, dealing with duty to disclose information during consultation, is that one of the items that your Amendment addresses?"
"I believe that's correct."
"Okay. Well let's read that. The law that you propose to change, it says 'There's a duty to disclose information during consultation. An employer would have the obligation...well the director shall determine that an employer has failed to consult in good faith if the employer has not provided the representative of the affected employee or the affected employees where there is no such representation...representative, with such relevant information as is necessary for the thorough evaluation of the proposal to order a plant closing, or relocation, or for the thorough evaluation of any alternatives or 12 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day modifications suggested to such proposal.' sentence says..."
"Excuse me."
"'Disclosure required.'"
"Excuse me." May 11, 1988 The next of competitive information not
"Now what part of that language is it that you are offended by?"
"Excuse me. Representative Cullerton, it's subsection B that you're suppose to be referring to."
"Subsection what?"
"B. Page 4, subsection B. I believe you're reading..."
"I just read...I just read..."
"...subsection above in Section 6."
"Yes, I just read 6A to find out what it was that the law required be disclosed. Then Section B talks about disclosure of competitive information not required. So I'm just wondering what language in this Bill is it that you say claims...requires disclosure of trade secrets?"
"Please read beyond that, because that's where it really contemplates the disclosure."
"'The information an employer discloses to an employee representative or to the affected employees where there is no such representative under Section A shall be subject to such protective orders as the Director may issue to prevent the disclosure of information which could compromise the position of the employer with respect to its competitors.' That's a prohibition. So you said that this law would require the disclosure of trade secrets, and I just wanted to find out where this Bill would require that."
"That's how we read that. Subsection B on page 4 clearly contemplates the disclosure of those trade secrets, 13 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 because if it doesn't, then we get over on page 5, if you'll just flip over, subsection D of Section 7, if you will read that, 'Civil Actions against representatives of employees, any representative of affected employees who violates a protective order issued by the Director under subsection B of Section C6 shall be liable to the employer for et cetera financial loss..."
"Yes, I see that, well let me just suggest that Section 6..."
"That contemplates that they're going to have to give sensitive information out."
"Well, okay. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, with regard to this issue, I think if you look at the Bill on page 4 of the Bill, Section 6 and you read it, Section 6A, it talks about, the title of that Section is 'Duty to Disclose Information During Consultation', and it requires a good faith effort on behalf of the employer to disclose relevant information as is necessary for the thorough evaluation of the proposal to order a plant closing. That's all it says. The next Section, Section B, is entitled 'Disclosure of Competitive Information Not Required', that's a prohibition. Then it says, it goes on to say, that the information that we just talked about, this relevant information, that an employer discloses to an employee representative, shall be subject to such protective orders as the director may issue to prevent the disclosure of information which could compromise the position of the employer with respect to its competitors. And then another Section that was referred to by the Sponsor of this Amendment provides for penalties. So I don't read this to mean that trade secrets must be disclosed. It just simply does not read that way. It...as a matter of fact what the Bill does, it attempts to 14 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 guarantee that this information relevant to the decision to order a plant closing or relocation, to guarantee that there are no trade secrets it specifically prohibited. So I don't think there's a need for this Amendment."
"Representative McCracken."
"Well if that's the point of the Bill then I suggest there's no need to oppose the Amendment. I believe that when you read the Bill, that is not as clear as Representative Cullerton reads it to be. I don't think the courts going to read it that way. And if it gets down to a court looking at the debates, you know, we don't know where they're going to fall down. So I think it's prudent, if not good policy, to require that the trade secrets not be disclosed in the explicit form of Amendment #4 and I move it... or I support its adoption."
"There being no further discussion, Representative Didrickson to close."
"Well, I can understand why, in closing, why Representative Cullerton has really kind of forced the issue on sticking with subsection A, because subsection B, as we interpret it, clearly requires the disclosure of those trade secrets. And as we read on further, on page 5, the misuse of those trade secrets wouldn't be contemplated if it wasn't for the fact that we are requiring that those trade secrets would be disclosed during consultation. I'm going to ask for a Roll Call vote on this and I'm going to ask you to seriously think about an 'aye' vote, because that isn't what we're about in the State of Illinois and that's not what we're about in this General Assembly and that's not what we're about in this country, to be able to be forced by government to reveal those trade secrets. And if in fact, the language is fuzzy that means even more so we ought to adopt this and hold this on second. I ask for 15 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day an 'aye' vote." May 11, 1988
"The Lady moves for the adoption of Amendment #4. All in favor of the Amendment signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Representative Pedersen votes 'aye', 'aye', 'aye', 'aye', Representative Pedersen would like to vote 'aye'. Thank you. Have all voted, have all voted who wish? Representative McCracken."
"I think there are nine or ten people missing. I'm going to ask for a verification."
"Have all voted...have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Amendment there are 51 'ayes', 60 'nos' and 1 voting 'present'. The Gentleman has asked for a verification. Mr. Clerk would you read the negative votes?"
"Bowman. Braun. Breslin. Brunsvold. Bugielski. Capparelli. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. Daley. Davis. DeJaegher. DeLeo. Dunn. Farley. Flowers."
"Excuse me, Mr. Clerk, would you record Representative Turner as 'no', and proceed."
"Giglio. Giorgi. Goforth. Granberg. Hannig. Hartke. Homer. Huff. Jonės. Keane. Krska. Kulas. Lang. Laurino. LeFlore. Leverenz. Levin. Matijevich. Mautino. McGann. McNamara. McPike. Morrow. Mulcahey. Novak. O'Connell. Panayotovich. Phelps. Rea. Rice. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Stern. Sutker. Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. White. Williams. Wolf. Anthony Young. Wyvetter Younge. Mr. Speaker."
"Representative Keane, right up front, asks leave to be verified. Representative McCracken is that alright? And Representative Levin has the some request. Representative McCracken. Representative Levin has the same request. Questions of the negative. Representative McCracken." 16 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative Lang."
"Representative Lang here? Yes, he's back in the back. Representative O'Connell. Could Representative O'Connell have leave? Proceed Representative McCracken."
"Is Representative Lang here?"
"Yes, he's here. Representative... Representative Williams in the center aisle would like...to be verified. Okay?"
"Yes, that's fine. Representative Breslin."
"Representative Breslin. Remove Representative Breslin from the Roll Call."
"Representative Giorgi."
"Representative Giorgi. Representative Giorgi. Remove Representative Giorgi from the Roll Call. Never mind. Mr. Clerk return him to the Roll Call, he's right up front."
"Representative White."
"Representative White. Representative White here? Remove him from the Roll Call."
"Representative Huff."
"Representative Huff. Representative Huff. Remove him from the Roll Call."
"Representative Saltsman."
"Representative Saltsman. Representative Saltsman, where is he? Remove Representative Saltsman from the Roll Call and return Representative White. Oh here's Representative Saltsman, he just walked in. So return Representative Saltsman and Representative White to the Roll Call."
"Representative Preston."
"Representative Preston's not voting."
"Representative Dunn."
"Representative Dunn. Representative John Dunn. 17 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Remove him from the Roll Call."
"Representative Ronan."
"Representative Ronan here? Representative Cullerton."
"Sir, a procedural question. Are we allowed...can you have more than one person ask for a verification...in other words could I ask for a person to be verified?
"On the negative?"
"Yes."
"Yes."
"I don't think Representative Panayotovich is here. I'd like to have him challenged."
"Representative Ronan is returned. Return him to the Roll Call."
"Representative Martinez."
"Yea, he's right there in the back."
"Representative Leverenz."
"Representative Leverenz. Representative Martinez, you are not recorded, how did you wish to be voted? He'd like to be voted no. Thank you Mr. McCracken, we appreciate that."
"I'm going to ask my friends here to look at the board before they give me these names. Representative Mautino, or Leverenz, you didn't rule on Leverenz."
"No I didn't. I haven't ruled on Representative Panayotovich or Representative Leverenz. Representative Leverenz here? Representative Leverenz. Remove him from the Roll Call."
"Representative Mautino."
"Representative Mautino. Remove Representative Mautino from the roll."
"Representative Farley."
"Representative Farley. Representative Farley. 18 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 Remove him from the roll."
"Representative Van Duyne."
"Representative Van Duyne. Gentleman here? Remove Mr. Van Duyne from the roll."
"Representative Christensen."
"He's not voting, he's an excused absence."
"Representative Laurino."
"Representative Laurino. Representative Laurino. Gentleman here? Remove him from the roll."
"Representative DeLeo."
"Mr. DeLeo. Representative DeLeo. Remove him from the roll."
"Representative Satterthwaite."
"She's here."
"Representative Rea."
"Rea's here."
"Nothing further."
"On this Amendment there are 51 'aye'....that's not in order, Representative Cullerton, Parliamentarian tells me your out of order. Out of order. Completely out of order. On this Amendment there are 51 'ayes', 53 'nos', the Amendment fails. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #5, offered by Representative Didrickson."
"Amendment #5, Representative Didrickson withdraws Amendment #5. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #6, offered by Representative Weaver."
"Representative Weaver on Amendment #6."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #6 will make the Bill which has some rather large objections on our side of the aisle a little bit more palatable in that the 60 day requirement for 19 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 review period for the business owner and the workers to get together, makes it 60 days. There's...a flaw in the underlying Bill which allows the Director of the Department of Labor to continue this process indefinitely. It can go on for as long as a year. I've got a specific case in my district where we had a coal mine, which right now in Illinois, we've got about 5,000 coal miners out of work, had a coal mine open up, it was underfinanced, went bankrupt. We have a buyer for the coal mine but if the previous owner, who is threatening to declare bankruptcy, is forced to carry on negotiations indefinately, the new buyer will simply walk away from it, everyone will be out of work and we simply will not have an operating coal mine at the time. What this does, this Amendment simply requires that that negotiating period be limited to 60 days and I ask for your support on this Amendment."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #6. Any discussion? Representative LeFlore."
"Yes, Mr. Speaker. I stand in opposition of Amendment #6."
"Representative Cullerton."
"Yes, would the Sponsor yield?"
"Yes he...will you yield? Yes he will."
"Representative Weaver, what Section of the Bill are you referring to concerning notification that you object to?"
"I can't hear him."
"Would you repeat that?"
"What Section of the Bill with regard to notification does your Amendment address? If you look at the... Do you have a copy of the Bill? Could you tell me what Section of the Bill it is that your Amendment addresses?"
"Yes, Mr. Cullerton, the notification provision is still 20 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 in there. All we do is...all we do is simply limit the ability of the director to continue the negotiations indefinitely."
"Okay. Well then under what circumstances under the Bill does the director extend the requirement to notify?"
"Well, that's part of our problem. The..."
"What...under what conditions?"
"The conditions under which the Director can extend indefinitely the negotiations are pretty subjective in terms of the director deciding that negotiations are not proceeding in good faith. It's difficult for us to understand exactly what is good faith and what is not good faith."
"Oh. Well, so in other words, the only time the director can extend is if he determines or she determines that they're not bargaining in good faith."
"Correct."
"And you don't like that. You'd like to be able to end this period of time even if they are in bad faith?"
"Well, unfortunately, one person's opinion may not be always correct. And there is absolutely no appeal procedure involved in the Bill. So if the director for some reason or other makes an error in judgment there is no appeal procedure."
"Well, I disagree with you, because the Director we're talking about is the Director of Labor, right?"
"Correct."
"Appointed by the Governor. And that person has to make a decision. If you object to... the employer objects to the decision you can go to court, this is subject to the administrative review, and so what your Amendment attempts to do is to cut off at a certain point, I think it's 60 days, without any recourse even if the...even if the 21 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 employer is consulted in...not using good faith or failed to meet at reasonable times with the representatives. And I think that your approach is to eliminate a whole Section which is unfair and unnecessary."
"Well, it doesn't exactly eliminate the whole Section, and I'm not sure that it's perfectly clear that it could not be appealed in court. My aim is simply to allow the procedure to end SO that in many cases relocation or business negotiations can proceed. My big concern with this part or this ability of the Director to continue indefinately is that potential buyers of a plant that is scheduled to close, will simply shy away and forget about the whole doggone thing. It will close down and all the jobs will be gone."
"Well, if I understand Section 5, you just read it. It says 'consultation required before plant closings or relocations. Consultation during notification period, an employer shall not order a plant closing or relocation unless the employer has #1 met at reasonable times with the representative or representatives if any of the affected employees or with the affected employees if there is no such representative, and #2 consulted in good faith with such representative or employees for the purpose of agreeing to a mutually satisfactory alternative.' Now that's what they're suppose to do. What your Amendment does, is it deletes all of Subsections B, C and D of Section 5, and it changes B to say that there's a cutoff period...the employers obligation to consult as required in Section A, continues until the end of a 60 day period. And then that's it. And I think that that doesn't account for the situation where the employer is not consulted in good faith or failing to meet at reasonable times with the representatives of the affected employees. So for that 22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day reason I would object to the Amendment."
"Mr. Weaver to close."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker."
"No, Representative McCracken." May 11, 1988
"Thank you. I rise in support of the Amendment, and the reason I do so is because I think we have to have in the Bill some out... or some outer limit as to the discretion or the ability of the Director of the Department of Labor to make findings. As you can see from the Bill as currently drafted, there is no statutory guide for the use of the director's discretion. He can make findings apparently ex parte, he can make findings without notice to either side, he can make findings for which there is no guide to his discretion, and we typically require in the exercise of executive discretion that standards be implemented by which that discretion can be judged. It's important to have those standards in place, it's important to have outer limits for how that...how far that discretion can reach. The Bill as currently drafted does not do it. In fact, if the director makes any of the findings relative to the requirements of the Bill, apparently he can delay the implementation of the closing order indefinitely. There is no end to his discretion. There is no time frame. There is no apparent right to appeal. So I think that all we're asking of you is we have to set some standards for the exercise of this discretion. That's what this Amendment does."
"Further discussion? There being none Representative Weaver to close."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman of the Assembly. The two main objections I have with the underlying Bill would be addressed by this Amendment. One, is that the ultimate decision should not rest in the hands 23 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 of a bureaucrat. Now I have the greatest amount of respect for the Director of the Department of Labor, but I have a basic objection against allowing the ultimate decision lie in the hands of a bureaucrat. If you want to vote for to a bureaucrat you can defeat this Amendment. The other problem I have with the underlying Bill, is this is not a mediation Bill, it should be addressing plant closing notification and that's what the Amendment will do. It will provide a means whereby jobs can be retained. Mr. Speaker, I'd ask for a Roll Call vote on this Amendment, and Members I'd ask for your support. Thank you."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of...adoption of Amendment #6. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Take the record Mr. Clerk. Representative Cullerton."
"Yes. I want to request a verification of the negative votes."
"Representative Cullerton has asked for a verification of the negative votes. Mr. Clerk...Mr. Clerk would you read the roll."
"A poll of those voting in the negative. Berrios. Bowman. Braun."
"Mr. Clerk, would you speed it up a little please?"
"Breslin. Panayotovich. Brunsvold. Bugielski. Capparelli. Cullerton. Curran. Currie. Daley. Davis. DeJaegher. DeLeo. Farley. Flowers. Giglio. Giorgi. Goforth. Granberg. Hannig. Hartke. Hicks. Homer. Jones. Keane. Krska. Kulas. Lang. Laurino. LeFlore. Leverenz. Levin. Martinez. Matijevich. Mautino. McGann. McNamara. McPike. Morrow. Novak. O'Connell. Panayotovich. Phelps. Rea. Rice. Richmond. Ronan. Saltsman. Satterthwaite. Shaw. Steczo. Stern. Sutker. 24 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day Terzich. Turner. Van Duyne. May 11, 1988 White. Williams. Wolf. Anthony Young. Wyvetter Younge and Mr. Speaker."
"Representative Cullerton, do you have any questions of the negative?"
"Yes, just... I have a procedural question here. In the previous Amendment, your ruling was that I was out of order when I attempted to join Representative McCracken..."
"That was the ruling. Representative McCracken agreed with the ruling."
"Does that mean that I'm the only one that can do the verification on this..."
"Yes Sir, proceed."
"Representative Panayotovich."
"Representative Panayotovich. Representative Cullerton, I...maybe you ought to withdraw this request?"
"Maybe when people stop punching his switch, maybe we wouldn't have this problem."
"Representative Cullerton withdraws the request for verification. On the...on this Amendment there are 50 'ayes', 63 'nos' and the Amendment fails. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #7, offered by Representative Regan."
"Representative Weaver, Amendment #7."
"Regan. Regan."
"Oh, I'm sorry. Regan. Misunderstood. Representative Regan proceed."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's Regan, Ragan and Weaver now. Amendment #7 addresses...it simply provides a safety valve under extreme circumstances where a plant would have to close without the 60 days. In other words, let me tell you some of those circumstances. A supply could be cut off of a material, a mineral, oil, plastics, copper, where a 25 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 person could absolutely not manufacture any further. No question about it that the plant can't continue. It's got to close. Technical changes, in this environment that we live in now, there's electronic changes that could put a business out of work just like that by a technical change, eliminating what they manufacture with no alternative. Credit could be cut off. A bank could say to the business that's it, your in deep enough, we can't give you anymore money. They absolutely couldn't even provide the funds to buy the materials to manufacture the product. This will allow a company to be able to go in under extreme circumstances and I would move for its adoption."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #7. Is there any discussion? Representative Cullerton."
"Representative Regan, would you Sponsor...would you yield for a question?"
"Yes he will."
"As I understand the law, the Bill that is, there is already an exemption provided in Section 9(c) dealing with physical calamities such as fire, flood or other natural disasters that would...or bankruptcy, that would cover the situations that you just hypothecated about. Do I understand your Amendment to say that this 60 day period can be avoided if it's reasonable to conclude that no mutually satisfactory alternative to or modification of the proposed mass layoff, plant closing or relocation exist. Is that what your Amendment says?"
"Yeah, that's what it says and in regards to..."
"That would be determined by whom?"
"That would be determined by the corporation."
"By the corporation?"
"And by the...by the alternative method with the 26 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day Department of Labor." May 11, 1988
"That would be determined by the Director."
"The Director."
"So in the previous Amendment we heard Representative Weaver talk about how these decisions should...of whether or not there is good faith or not, should not be made by a bureaucrat, and what you're saying is in your Amendment, that you're going to let this bureaucrat, decide in his or her opinion whether or not this whole notice period can be eliminated. Not because there's a physical calamity as you talked about, but rather if he or she determines that it's reasonable to conclude that no mutually satisfactory alternative to or modification on the proposed mass layoff exists. So I think that the same logic that would apply in... the real problem with the Amendment is that even though there may not be a satisfactory alternative or modification of the layoff, you do want to give notice to the worker. That's really the point of the Bill and it's not 90 days it's 60 days and so I think that once again, this Amendment is really an overkill. And for that reason I would oppose it. In answer to your query."
"Further discussion? There was no question, Representative Regan. Further discussion? Didrickson." Didrickson: Representative "I rise in support of this Amendment. In contrary to what Representative Cullerton is saying here with the hypothecation, there are no exclusions provided here. And let me cite you a couple of examples of why you need in certain sensitive issues...certain sensitive times, not this 60 day notification. I'm going to cite an example of a layoff with regards to a neighbor in my backyard, 'Parkle' Foods. It's seasonal business, they provide those and make those cookies for Sears, and for Swiss Colony and 27 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 a whole number of mass producers, at Christmas time. But they need the sensitivity after that seasonal time to be able to layoff, and the 60 day notification would put them in a real bind. And I'll cite another example, let's talk about somebody whose in the packaging business and can't get the raw product that he needs. For example, oil, okay, and without that raw product he has to be able to have a sensitivity there to be able to not be mandated on a 60 day layoff, he needs the sensitivity to be able to layoff 30 days or 15 days that window there, because he needs to react quicker than what this notification is demanding. This is a good Amendment, it's not a nonsensical Amendment, it's not a hypothetical Amendment, it's a good Amendment and it deserves an 'aye' vote."
"Representative Regan to close."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. May I remind the House please, the Members of the House, that Illinois was rated 44th out of 48 contiguous States as being antibusiness environment. That was before we worked very hard on a compromise with unemployment insurance. I'm sure that helped. The businesses that are out of the State look carefully at Illinois and the businesses that are in the State look carefully at staying in Illinois. We don't want any more ratings like 44th out of 48. Part of those ratings are made up because of the cost of unemployment insurance, workman's comp, taxes, lost time with strikes. Illinois doesn't need a worse rating than it had before and I advise this Amendment to go on please."
"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #7. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this Amendment there are 52 'ayes' and 60 'nos'. The Amendment fails. 28 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day Further Amendments?" May 11, 1988
"Floor Amendment #8 is being offered by Representative Parke."
"Representative Parke. Amendment #8."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentleman of the House, simply as amended by House Amendment #1, House Bill 3381, the Plant Closing Bill, goes way beyond just insuring that Illinois workers are able to know what the future holds. House Bill 3381 in its current form not only requires that an employer provide 60 days notice of his intent to implement layoffs or to close his plant, it requires him to sit down with his employees and negotiate for the purpose of agreement to a mutually satisfactory alternative or modification of the proposed layoff or closing. Now if you support this legislation that doesn't sound unreasonable, but let me continue what it does. If the employer is determined to have failed to consult with the employees in good faith, which is probably to be determined by some...somebody else, he may be subject to civil liability and required to indefinitely delay the layoff or closing. Now Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, if he's stalled in being able to close the plant it just doesn't make sense to do it that way, because most reasonable employers do not want to close their plant in the first place. And now they're going to be subject to have to extend the length of time before they can close. House Amendment #8 would relieve employers of the burdensome consult...consulting requirements now contained in House Bill 3381. And refutes the unfortunate notion that to be fair to employees a law must be unfair to employers. I think this Amendment will make this legislation better for all the people of Illinois so that we can continue to have a sound business environment and 29 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 thereby a sound pro-jobs environment in Illinois. I ask for you to vote yes on Amendment #8 to 3381."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #8. Representative LeFlore."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker... Amendment #8 is the same as 4 and 5. I stand in opposition."
"Representative Parke to close. Representative Giglio would you... Representative Giglio. Representative Parke to close. Representative Giglio in the Chair."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I have stated earlier this legislation is being proposed on a federal level. I see no reason why we should not wait to see what the federal legislation does. But since you've insisted on pressing this unworkable Bill, we are trying to amend it to make a bad Bill at least acceptable in some semblances of our employer community. I ask that reasonableness prevail. And I ask that you support Amendment #8 to House Bill 3381."
"Further discussion? There being none... question is, 'Shall Amendment #8 pass?' All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', those opposed 'nay'. Do you want a Roll Call? Those voting for the affirmative vote 'aye', those against vote 'nay', the voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Mr. Clerk take the record. On this question there are 51 voting 'yes', 59 voting 'no' and none voting 'present' and the Amendment fails. Further Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #9 offered by Representative LeFlore."
"Representative LeFlore on Amendment #9 to House Bill 3381."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #9 exempts the retailers from this Bill. Deletes the exemption. I'm 30 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day sorry."
Sir?"
"Yes." May 11, 1988 "Do you move for the adoption of the Amendment,
"A question on the Amendment, the Gentleman from Du Page, Representative McCracken."
"Point of order, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #9 is out of order, because it is not an Amendment to House Bill 3381 as amended. And it's particularly important, a distinction in this case, because Amendment #1 which was adopted in committee, amended in part, the same subsection,... Subsection D of Section 9, which the Gentleman purports to delete with this Amendment. Therefore, I ask that the Chair rule it out of order."
"The Gentleman from Jefferson, Representative Hicks."
"Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Gentleman to take the Amendment out of the record. I object to Floor Amendment #9 in what it deals with. And I would ask him to take it out until we can work something out with it."
"Representative LeFlore."
"Take it out of the record, Mr. Speaker."
"Out of the record. Withdraw the Amendment. Gentleman asks to withdraw Amendment #9. Does the Gentleman have leave? Hearing none, leave is granted. Further Amendments?"
"There are no further Amendments."
"There's a state mandates note filed, so the Bill will remain on Second Reading. State mandate note request. Representative Matijevich, are you ready on 3612? Mr. Clerk, read the Bill. On page 20 of the Calendar on State and Local Government, appears House Bill 3612."
"House Bill 3612, a Bill for an Act to amend the 31 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day Illinois Public Aid Code. May 11, 1988 Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 had lost previously on the order of Second Reading."
"Any further Amendments? Any Motions?"
"There are no further Amendments. No Motions filed."
"Third Reading. Representative O'Connell. Representative O'Connell, in the chamber? Representative McCracken, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?"
"Was there a fiscal note that's been filed? Is that why it was held on second. I know we did this Amendment on 3612 yesterday and it didn't get on the Bill. Filed. Alright."
"Yes, it has been filed, Representative McCracken. Alright. On page 21 of the calendar, Representative Curran. 3698 out of the record. How about 3706? Mr. Clerk, read 3706, page 21 of the calendar."
"House Bill 3706, a Bill for an Act to amend the Mobile Home Landlord and Tenant Rights Act. Second Reading of the Bill. There are no Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments? Representative Curran."
"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representative McCracken."
"Amendment #1, Representative McCracken."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amendment #1 would allow a mobile homeowner to make as a condition of lease, also the purchase or the right to require purchase, if the lease is greater than six months, so that a mobile park homeowner in a lease option, or would have the authority to execute a lease option to purchase. And the Bill as currently drafted, does not allow that. What it allows only, is a lease of the mobile home tenancy within the mobile home. It disallows a tenant to be required as a condition of 32 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 living in the home to purchase a mobile home from the park owner. That's the purpose of the Bill or that's the purpose of the Amendment, I'm sorry."
"Any discussion? Representative Curran."
"Mr. Speaker, I wish to oppose this Amendment, but I wish to do this at another time, because a third Amendment which will be the final version of the Bill has not been distributed."
"Want to take it out of the record?"
"Correct."
"Take it out of the record. Representative Levin in the chamber? Representative Levin? Representative Braun, 3766. Second Reading. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3766, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Health Facilities Planning Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in committee."
"Any Motions filed?"
"No Motions filed."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"No Floor Amendments."
"Third Reading. Representative O'Connell in the chamber? Representative Homer, 3788. Do you wish to move 3788, Sir? Would you like to move it? Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3788, a Bill for an Act to amend the Uniform Commercial Code. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representative Homer."
"Representative Homer, Amendment #1 to House Bill 3788."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The legislation amends a portion 33 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 to home rule municipalities that would serve as supplements to revenue bonds. And that's what's found in Amendment #1."
"Any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the Gentleman's Motion to Amendment #1 say 'aye', those opposed 'nay', in the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Representative Levin in the chamber? Levin, are you ready on 3864, Sir. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3864, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in committee."
"Any Motions filed?"
"No Motions filed."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"No Floor Amendments."
"Third Reading. Representative Breslin. Representative Breslin in the Chair... I mean the chambers? Representative Currie. 3879. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3879, a Bill for an Act to amend the Minority and Female Business Enterprise Act. Second Reading of the Bill. There are no Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"None."
"Third Reading. Representative Rea. Representative Rea. House Bill 4010. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 4010, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Have any Floor Amendments?" 35 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 of the Uniform Commercial Code. The original Bill amended Article VIII, and subsequently it was deemed desirable, in order to conform the Bill to its intent, to also amend Article III of the Uniform Commercial Code in the same manner as the Amendment to Article VIII which governs negotiable instruments involving certificates of deposit. So, it's in the form of a technical Amendment and I would ask its adoption."
"Any discussion on Amendment #1? All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', those opposed 'nay', in the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it, Amendment #1 is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments. Third Reading."
"Representative O'Connell, are you ready on 3785? Mr. Clerk, 3785, read the Bill please."
"House Bill 3785, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to provide for local government debt reform. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representative O'Connell."
"Representative O'Connell."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Floor Amendment #1 is a...should have been in the original House Bill 3785 which expands the improvements that we made to the issuance of debt by non home rule municipalities, last Session in House Bill 854. The enhancement and the efficiencies that we gave to municipalities in that piece of legislation is, the same that we're providing now to other units of local government which would include School Districts, Park Districts, and other units of local government other than non-home rule municipalities. What we're providing for in Amendment #1, are the alternate bonds that are now provided 34 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day
"There are none."
"Third Reading. Representative Churchill. Representative Churchill in the chamber? Representative Saltsman. Saltsman in the chamber? Anthony Young. House Bill 4119. Out of the record. Representative Rea, 4153. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill 4153."
"House Bill 4153, a Bill for an Act to amend the River Conservancy District Act, Second Reading of the Bill, No Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"There are none."
"Third Reading. Representative Steczo in the chamber? Steczo? Representative Kirkland. Representative Kirkland in the chamber? Stange. Representative Stange in the chamber? Representative Stange, are you ready on 4258, Sir? 4258, Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 4258. A Bill for an Act to amend the Humane Care for Animals Act. Second Reading of the Bill. There are no Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"There are none."
"Third Reading. Representative Weaver, are you ready, Sir? House Bill 4262. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 4262, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Human Rights Act, Second Reading of the Bill, there are no Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"There are none."
"Third Reading. Representative Phelps. Representative Phelps, on House Bill 4279. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 4279, a Bill for an Act to amend the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois, Second Reading of 36 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day the Bill. There are no Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"There are none." May 11, 1988
"Third Reading. Representative Mautino, you're the House Sponsor of Senate Bill 1456. Do you wish to move that from second to third, Sir? Mr. Clerk, Senate Bill 1456. Read the Bill, please."
"On page 39 of your Calendar, House Bill 1456, (sic-Senate Bill 1456) a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to regulate the granting of assistance to indulge war veterans and their families...to assist to indigent...indigent war veterans and their families, Second Reading of the Bill. On Senate Bill 1456, there are no Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"There are none."
"The Gentleman claims that his Amendment has been filed. Has it been distributed?"
"Yes."
"Correct the record. Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1456, is offered by Representative Mautino, has been distributed."
"Representative Mautino, on Amendment #1 to Senate Bill 1456. Proceed, Sir."
"Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #1 is the agreed Amendment between all the parties, the Veterans' Affairs Department, the local 'VACS', the county boards, the county and townships officials. It's a Mautino, Breslin, Klemm, Giorgi, Mulcahey Amendment that provides for the establishment and the rules and regulations for 'VACS', Veterans Assistance Commissions, to be governed by the county board. It establishes the control by the county board and it provides for salary guidelines that are in 37 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 accordance with the compensation of other employees. And it mandates that the 'VACS' are not employees of the county, but of the Veterans Assistance Commission. It's an agreed Amendment and I move for its adoption."
"Any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the Gentleman's Amendment say 'aye', those opposed 'nay'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment's adopted. Are there further Amendments?
"There are no further Amendments?"
"Third Reading. Representative McPike in the Chair."
"On page 2 of the Calendar, the same order of business, State and Local Government. We will now proceed to those Bills in this order of business that are on Third Reading. Page 33 of the Calendar, House Bill 589, Representative Flinn. Monroe Flinn. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 589, a Bill for an Act to amend the Environmental Protection Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Flinn."
"Well, Mr. Speaker, I've got an Amendment. I'd like to take the Bill back...have leave to take the Bill back to Second Reading for an Amendment, please."
"The Gentleman asks leave to return House Bill 589 to Second Reading. No objections? Leave is granted. Bills on Second Reading. Are there any Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #6 is being offered by Representative Flinn."
"Representative Flinn, Amendment #6."
"Mr. Speaker, this Amendment deals with the...a Section of 589. In that Section we are dealing with the hours of operating a landfill and we mistakenly applied this to in-plant landfills which we shouldn't have done. What this 38 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 does, it takes out manufacturing processes which do around-the-clock business. We have no desire to shut them down any certain hour during the night. And all this does is correct an oversight in the Bill itself, and I move for its adoption."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #6, and on that, the Representative McCracken."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm in agreement with the Amendment. It makes the Bill better from our point of view as well."
"Further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #6 be adopted?' All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed, 'no'. The 'ayes' have it and the Amendment's adopted. Further Amendments?"
"There are no further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Do you want to call the Bill, Mr. Flinn? Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk. Representative McCracken."
"I just wonder if Representative Flinn could tell me what's...did you give me an Amendment number, number five, or number six?"
"Number five was withdrawn."
"Five was withdrawn and six was the one we talked about?"
"Yes."
"Alright, thank you."
"Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk. The Gentleman asks leave to waive the appropriate rules so the Bill can be read on Third Reading at this time. Are there any objections? Hearing none, leave is granted. The Attendance Roll Call will be used. The Motion carries. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 589, a Bill for an Act to amend certain 39 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 Acts in relationship to Environmental Protection, Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Flinn."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, House Bill 589 is a product of an Interim Study Bill in which we in St. Clair County, in particular, have a...quite a problem with landfills in the sense of the hours of operation and of the uninability of the EPA to properly monitor and enforce some of the state laws. And, generally speaking, what this Bill started out to do was to give local authorities more authority to do so. But let me briefly go through what the Bill does. It provides each waste...solid waste disposal facility in Illinois to be operated by a solid waste technician by the year of January 1, 1990. This person must be fully competent and qualified. The EPA would, of course, develop the mandatory waste study...technical study. Too, it requires facilities fueled by landfill generated methane to...into a long term contract to purchase electricity. This is really not an important facet of the Bill since there is not very much, if any, of this going on. It's something that if it creates anybody a problem we could take out of the Bill, but it's a part of the Bill right now. It also authorizes local government to set operating hours of the sanitary landfills and the waste energy facilities and that was the Amendment a while ago. What we've got in our area down there is some around-the-clock operations which are disturbing the neighbors extensively. And what we intend to do is let local authorities set reasonable hours, such as daylight hours or that sort of thing, which is the intent of that portion of the Bill. And we've extended the Federal Antitrust Immunity presently enjoyed by the Illinois General Assembly to those cities 40 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 and counties in which they're trying to enforce any part of this Act. In other words, it doesn't cause local officials to have to appear...lawsuits based upon their enforcement of this Act, not any illegal acts, of course. Unless the...it prohibits the agency, beginning January, 1989, to grant any permit for the construction or operation of a solid waste disposal sight which is held in landtrust unless the application has been signed by all beneficiaries of the landtrust. In other words, it doesn't permit people to hide under the Landtrust Law to keep from showing their identity if they own a landfill. And that's exactly what the Bill does and I would ask for its adoption and be ready to answer any questions."
"The Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 589. Is there any discussion? Being none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 589 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Clerk will take the record. On this Bill, there's lll 'ayes', 1 'no', 3 voting 'present'. House Bill 589 having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Page 39 of the Calendar. House Bill 1279. Representative Steczo. Read the Bill, Mr. Clerk."
"On page 39 of your Calendar, House Bill 1279, a Bill for an Act to create an Act concerning the procurement of...architectural engineering and land surveying services for political subdivisions of the state. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Steczo."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. House Bill 1279...I should point out...does nothing with regard to architectural engineering or land surveying. All the language relating to that area has been deleted by 41 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Amendment #4. So, what House Bill 1279 does now is, deals only with a situation of a Fire Protection District in Waycinden Park which is up in the northern area of Cook county and wants to...that wishes to de-annex. This...they find themselves in a situation where they are not providing services. They are contracting with another fire protection district or municipality for services and the residents are being forced to pay twice. They would like to relieve their residents of a situation where they're paying for...a tax and not receiving any services. This legislation will affect only this one area of the state. I believe it's noncontroversial, Mr. Speaker. It came out of committee unanimously or nearly unanimously. And I would appreciate an affirmative vote."
"Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 1279. Is there any discussion? Being none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 1279 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this Bill there are 114 'ayes', no 'nays', 1 voting 'present'. House Bill 1279, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. There were some Members off the floor when we were doing Second Reading and the Chair will try to accommodate those people that were off the floor if they would simply try to call it to our attention. Representative Saltsman, what's the Bill number that we passed by of yours, what's your Bill number? Saltsman. Please turn on Representative Saltsman, would you please?"
"I believe that was the Bill I took from Mike Curran as Chief Sponsor. I don't...forget which number it was. Have you got..."
"4059." 42 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day
"4059, yes."
"On disabled officers, home rule."
"Yes. 4059." May 11, 1988
"Alright. Mr. Clerk, page 27 of the Calendar, House Bill 4059. Read the Bill."
"House Bill 4059, a Bill for an Act to amend the Continued Compensation for Disabled Law Officers Act, to make it applicable to home rule units, Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in committee."
"Any Motions filed?"
"There are no Motions filed."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #2 is being offered by Representative McCracken."
"Representative McCracken, Amendment #2."
"As the Bill is currently written, it deletes or exempts from its application, Chicago. This Amendment would put back Chicago into the Bill. If it's good enough for the rest of the state, it's good enough for Chicago."
"Representative Saltsman, on the Amendment."
"Yes, this Amendment actually guts. The Bill and the reason Chicago was taken out, is because they have already negotiated this within their contracts, and they have a better program than what we're asking for here. This would take away a better benefit that Chicago already has and what downstate is asking for. And I ask that this Amendment be defeated."
"Further discussion? Representative McCracken to close."
"...ask for an 'aye' vote."
"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?' All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no'. The 'nos' have it. The Amendment's 43 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 defeated. Further Amendments?"
"There are no further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Page 33 of the Calendar, House Bill 1669, Representative Williamson. Read the Bill Mr. Clerk. Representative McCracken."
"Mr. Speaker, I've...I've...have asked that we break at 11:00. Apparently there had been an agreement between the Leaders, and I'm advised that the Chair has received a phone call to continue till 11:30. We are not in agreement with that. And I would ask this...the Chair to break now that 11:00 has arrived."
"Well, Mr. McCracken, we do intend to break shortly and the... Chair is going to try to get to a few more Bills. Representative Williamson, do you want your Bill heard? Mr. Clerk, read Representative Williamson's Bill. It's on page 33 of the Calendar on Third Reading."
"House Bill 1669, a Bill for Act to amend Township Law. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Williamson."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. House Bill 1669 simply allows township government to raise the fee that it has the right to charge adult entertainment, from $300 to $500, if they wish to do so. And I would ask for a favorable vote."
"The Lady moves for the passage of House Bill 1669. Is there any discussion? Representative Cullerton."
"Yes, thank you. Would the Sponsor yield? Representative Williamson, the...this is not a tax. This is still a fee. Is that correct?"
"Yes. You are correct."
"To be constitutional, the fee would have to somehow relate to the expenses involved in administering the license. Can you give us a little idea as to how 44 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 many...licenses this would affect?"
"Well, at one time in 'Lidon' township, I can relate to 'Lidon' township, there were five adult entertainment establishments. Right now, there are only two that are located in the township of 'Lidon'. I do not have the numbers on the other townships in the state."
"Well, these are licenses for what? For the business of providing adult entertainment?"
"Yeah."
"What does that mean? And there's only two of them in your whole township?"
"In 'Lidon' township, right now, there are two that are operating. Raising the fee is something that the townships have asked me to do, simply because they feel that they have more paperwork and that they...it's just much more difficult for them to provide the businesses for the adult entertainment, because it a specialized business."
"So right now, they're collecting $600."
"No. Right now they're getting...they're getting...correct, for the two."
"They're getting $600 to administer these two licenses, and this Bill would give them $1000 to administer these two licenses."
"That right."
"Because the $600 isn't enough."
"At their choosing, if the township wishes to do so."
"Well, right now they are definitely charging $300 each."
"Right now, the maximum fee is $300."
"And your townships have indicated they need this Bill."
"Yes, they have." 45 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"So they are planning on charging the full $500, I take it."
"Yes, they do."
"So what this Bill do...will do will be to get an extra $400 out of these two adult entertainment licensees."
"Right. Correct."
"Now...is there...is there a...could you tell me what's involved with administering the licenses. Does it provide for inspections of the adult entertainment locations?"
"The inspections of the businesses are basically done by the county inspectors, not township inspectors."
"What do the township licensees...what does the township do? I mean, they take their $600, now a $1000. What do they do? Do they give them a piece of paper saying they can be an adult entertainment center?"
"They have special requirements that they have to meet. For example, at the businesses that have peep shows, they have..."
"What shows?"
"Peep shows. Okay, for the peep shows, they have to be provided...they have to have different types of booths, there are certain lighting, the fire department is involved. It's just a lot more work..."
"I've never heard of..."
"What they're trying to do..."
"I've never heard of a peep show. What does that involve?"
"No."
"But I mean this...to be constitutional, as I understand it...you can't just be doing this to...to harass these adult entertainment licensees. You have to do it...you have to have some relationship with the cost of 46 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 administering the license. And you...you're...you can justify that, then?"
"That's exactly what this Bill does. And the townships feel that they need the additional revenue, if they wish to charge so for the special licensing of these types of businesses."
"Now, do you know if these...two business, these two adult entertainment businesses, are they going to be able to continue to be in operation in your township if this Bill passes. Will this extra $200..."
"I'm sure the additional $200 will not affect them at all."
"Alright. Okay. Thank you for answering my questions."
"Further discussion? Representative Williamson to close."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would ask for an 'aye' vote on this piece of legislation, House Bill 1669. Thank you."
"The Lady has moved for passage of House Bill 1669. All in favor signify by voting 'aye', opposed vote 'no'. Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? Representative Rice, did you want to speak? Explain your vote?"
"Yes, if I can. Can I ask the Representative, for a poor old country preacher, what is adult education...adult entertainment?"
"If Representative Williamson wishes to explain her vote, she may do so to answer that question. That's up to her. Representative Williamson to explain her vote."
"To move the process along, I will be glad to discuss that with you at a later time, Representative Rice."
"Not on a Sunday morning, I hope." 47 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"Have all voted? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this Bill, there are 100 'ayes', no 'nays' and 13 voted 'present'. House Bill 1669, having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. The Chair will...the House will now stand at ease for a reception. Mr. McCracken, did you have any announcements at all? This...the House will now stand at ease until the hour of 12:00 noon. We will be in Joint Session at 12:00 noon, SO if the Members would please return to the House floor promptly for a Joint Session at 12:00 noon. The House will stand at ease. The House stands in recess until 12:00 noon. The House will come to order. Mr. Doorkeeper? Mr. Doorkeeper?"
"Mr. Speaker, President Rock and Members of the Senate are at the door and seek admission to the chamber."
"Admit the honorable Senators. Speaker Madigan in the Chair."
"...is designated in House Joint Resolution #191. The hour of 12:00 having arrived, the Joint Session of the 85th General Assembly will now come to order. Will the Members of the House and our esteemed guests from the Senate please take their seats. Mr. Clerk, is a quorum present?"
"A quorum of the House is present."
"Mr. President, is a quorum present in this chamber?"
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A quorum of the Senate is present."
"There being a quorum present of the House and a quorum of the Senate in attendance, this Joint Session is convened. The Chair would like to acknowledge a certain guest who has joined us today. Seated in the front row is the...chief educational officer of the State of Illinois, 48 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Mr. Ted Sanders... Mr. Saunders (sic Sanders). The Chair recognizes Mr. McPike."
"Thank you Mr. Speaker. Will the Clerk read Joint Resolution #191?"
"Mr. Clerk. Mr. Clerk. Mr. Clerk would you read Joints ... Joint Resolution #191? 191."
"Joint Resolution 191 resolved, by the House of Representatives of the 85th General Assembly of the State of Illinois, the Senate concurring herein, that the two Houses shall convene in Joint Session on Wednesday, May 11, 1988 at the hour of 12 o'clock noon, for the purpose of hearing the United States Secretary of Education, William Bennett, address the Joint Assembly."
"I move for the adoption of the Resolution."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of the Resolution. Those in favor say 'aye', those opposed say 'no'. The 'ayes' have it. The Resolution is adopted. At this time, Mr. Daniels, the Minority Leader, will assume the Chair for the purpose of an introduction. Mr. Daniels."
"Mr. Speaker, President Rock, it is my privilege to introduce to you today William J. Bennett who has served as United States Secretary of Education since February 6, 1985, following unanimous confirmation by the Senate of the United States. A native of Brooklyn, New York, Secretary Bennett holds a Bachelor's of Arts degree in philosophy from Williams College, a Doctorate in political philosophy from the University of Texas, and a law degree from Harvard Law School. He taught at the University of Southern Mississippi, the University of Texas, Harvard University, Boston University and the University of Wisconsin, before becoming director, and later president of the National Humanities Center in North Carolina. In 1981, 49 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 he was selected by President Reagan to be chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities, where he served until assuming his current position. The Secretary has been an advocate for excellence at all levels of education. His report, while at the endowment, to reclaim a legacy, focused on the liberal arts and higher education. His proposals for improving elementary and secondary education are set forth in several Department of Education publications including First Lessons, the first national report in three decades on elementary education. Secretary Bennett has launched the department's What Works series of booklets, a set of publications that provide tested practical advice for parents, educators, policymakers and students. The series began with a 65 page handbook, What Works, research about teaching and learning. The second volume, Schools Without Drugs, is the cornerstone of the Department's extensive efforts to prevent drug use by school children. In less than ten months, over 1.5 million copies of Schools Without Drugs has been distributed to the American public free of charge. Schools That Work, Educating Disadvantaged Children, the most recent edition to the series, presents important new information about the practices of schools that are successfully educating disadvantaged children. Secretary Bennett's educational philosophy and policies are set in part on what he has called the '3 C's': content, character, and choice. These principles inform his call for a return to basics, to teach a strong core curriculum, emphasizing fundamentals such as reading, writing, mathematics and mastery of the classics, to develop strong moral character in young Americans, and to promote parental choice and involvement in education. In recommending school reform, Secretary Bennett consistently urges measures that require assessment, 50 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 institute accountability, and demand progress. Among the Secretary's other initiatives are reforms of higher education, financing, and bilingual education. He has also spoken out on issues such as the importance of the family, the need to protect our children from the threat of AIDS, and the academic and moral responsibilities of college administrators, faculties and students. Ladies and Gentlemen of Illinois, Senators and Members of the House, would you please join me in welcoming to the State of Illinois, the leading educator of the United States and outstanding Gentleman. It is my privilege to introduce to you Secretary Bennett, Secretary of Education."
"Thank you very much, Mr. Daniels, thank you, Speaker Madigan, President Rock, Senators, Members, Ladies and Gentlemen, good afternoon. It's a great pleasure to be here. This is my first time in Springfield. It took too long to get here, and I'm grateful...I mean 44 years, I don't mean the hour of flight. I'm very grateful to be here. I have spent a lot of time in Illinois, not in Springfield, but another community. I've spent some time in Chicago, but that's not the one I'm thinking of. I've probably spent the most time in Illinois in a town called Dixon. It's the home of my best friend, not Ronald Reagan, he's a friend, too, but another best friend, John Kanute of the Kanute family. Mr. Kanute delivered cookies for Nabisco, raised seven children, all of them went to college, all are doing fine, all are proud citizens of the United States. I have some sense of the variety of the State of Illinois, and of the kind of quality that this state produces when it wants to. I am very pleased to be in Springfield, particularly because, as I'm sure you hear all the time, this is the home of one of my great heroes. It was Abraham Lincoln who, I am told, as a young 51 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 Legislator, who introduced early in his career, a piece of legislation, for testing the teachers of the State of Illinois. Lincoln believed it was proper that the public be assured of the confidence of teachers before they enter the nation's classrooms. Pretty good precedent there. But earlier today, I was in Chicago. It's about the 4th visit I've made as Secretary of Education and I met this morning with citizens, parents, members of the Chicago community, people concerned about the condition of the Chicago schools. They told me a number of things. I wrote down what they said. Let me just repeat them to you. They told me in a very moving session that lasted about an hour, they said our children's future is threatened by the public schools. We can't count on the system to educate our children. We need to put the system back in order. One person said, 'There is too little learning going on and a lot of drugs going on instead. We are graduating students who cannot do the basic skills.' And then one parent said, 'What we are saying, Mr. Secretary is enough. We've had enough. The system must improve.' Now I urge you, but of course, you don't need any urging, to listen to these people who are the ultimate consumers of education, the parents, of children who go. These are voices that need to be heeded. I know you are heeding them and I know you are in the midst of intense and focused debates about the future of education in Chicago and the State of Illinois. For that, I congratulate you. Let me suggest to you what we believe will mark effective improvements in reform in education. I don't have the business of running any schools, you do. As we say in my office, I don't do any retail, I just do wholesale. But one of the things we do while we're doing wholesale is collect examples from around the country of what works, what's effective, of what can 52 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 improve American education. We've tried to put that information together in a series of books, some of which Mr. Daniels mentioned. But let me highlight today, if I can, some of the things that I think you should consider and look at as you look at education reform particularly as it pertains to Chicago. Let me stress at the outset, however, that what I offer to you by way of recommendations is not a political agenda. It's not a Republican agenda. It's not a conservative agenda. It's not a Democrat agenda. It's not a liberal agenda. During the course of my tenure as Secretary of Education, we have gotten behind education reform wherever it was sensible. I know that we've rubbed a few Republicans the wrong way from time to time by supporting Governor 'Burklage' in Minnesota in his efforts to introduce greater choice in the Minnesota schools. By supporting Governor Riley in South Carolina in his very significant efforts to introduce accountability to the school system of the State of South Carolina. By the way, that introduction of accountability in South Carolina has made South Carolina the fastest improving state in the United States in terms of educational achievement. We've been happy to get behind Governor Clinton, Bill Clinton in Arkansas, as he fought the battle for sound competency tests for teachers. And also, we've been happy to get behind Governor Kane in New Jersey as he introduced and succeeded in his efforts to get a Bill for the alternative certification of teachers. Of course, we supported Governor Orr in Indiana in his efforts at educational reform and the introduction of accountability. But what I will say...to you today, in brief form, is what works, is what's effective. It's what we've found to be of value to our students. The first thing. The first thing. The first thing that must happen for educational reform to 53 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 improve is that the people who have such a great stake in education be given a greater say in how education proceeds. That is, the children, and through the children, their parents. It is important that parents be given a greater say and greater control over the schools their children attend. John Chub, a fellow at the Bookings Institution, has written a scholarly paper by which has been corroborated by many others, in which he points out that the single most promising school reform, the single most promising effort that can be taken to improve a school, to get a school from low standing or mediocrity to quality, is to increase parental involvement in the running of that school. And that means more than just inviting parents to more bake sales or more potluck suppers. It means giving them real authority, real power, taking some of the power from others and giving it to parents who, after all, are or are supposed to be childrens' first teachers. One way to do that is to give parents a greater choice of the schools their children attend, to let them decide with their feet, where they want to send their children. We have an example of this in Harlem, District 4, Harlem, Spanish Harlem in New York. It was the lowest ranking school district in the City of New York. They decided to give parents a choice of the schools to which they could send their children. To be candid with you, and there were skeptics. All the skeptics weren't public about their skepticism, but privately said, these are poor people. These are not educated people. A lot of these people are immigrants. A lot of these people didn't finish high school. How will they be able to exercise intelligent choice on behalf of their children? Well, they did exercise intelligent choice on behalf of their children. What they did was, among other things, leave three schools entirely. They all pulled their 54 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 children out of three schools, because they didn't think much was going on in those schools. And they were right. We went back and looked at those schools. We found out that what was going on in those schools was a lot of vandalism, a lot of fooling around, a lot of drugs, but not much learning. To make a long story short, District 4 in Harlem is now the 16th ranked school district in the City of New York. It rose from 32 to 16 simply by the power of parental choice. Another way you can give parents authority and power is to let them have an important say over what goes on in the school, of what the curriculum is, how it's taught, who the principal is and who the teachers are. That's a kind of parental power, a kind of power to the people which is appropriate. The more closely tied the educational institution is to the...wishes and interests and involvement of parents, the more likely you will have a successful educational outcome. The more distant it is, the more it is lodged in some central office downtown, which seems far away and often indifferent to the interests of students, the more likely you will have educational failure. Second...second thing to improve schools would be, and it's a corollary of the first, greater accountability. And one way to achieve accountability is to give parents a greater choice and a greater say. They'll hold the schools accountable, because they want the schools to work. But there are other ways to ensure accountability. For example, to give people the autonomy to run their schools and to hold them accountable for results. I remember visiting a school, a very good school in Chicago not long ago, and I asked the principal, a fine principal, a fine Lady, why it was a good school. One of the reasons was obvious, this Lady herself. We very rarely find good schools without good principals. She ran this 55 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 school like a Mom and Pop Store. She knew everyone there, she called everyone by name, and she ran it like clockwork. But she said to me, when I asked her this, she said, 'They did a very interesting thing here, Mr. Secretary. They let me hire my own staff. They let me hire my own team so we could all work in the same direction.' I turned to an official who was travelling with us, and I said, 'You know, this is a good idea. Why don't you take somebody who looks to have vision, some commitment to children, a sense of how to run an enterprise, give that person the authority to run the school, hold them accountable for results, let them pick their own team?' And the official said to me, 'To tell you the truth, Mr. Secretary, if we did that, there'd be a lot of people in the Chicago school system who no one would voluntarily pick. No one, if they had a choice, would pick a lot of the people we have in the system, who are now, today, teaching classes, running schools, or running parts of essential bureaucracy.' Accountability and autonomy should go together. Hire a principal, hire the best person you can find. Say you expect results in two years, leave that person to run the place the way he or she sees fit, within the rules. But within those rules, make room for that person's ability to hire and fire, based on competence, based on performance, because nothing is more significant...significantly detrimental to a leader's efforts to improve a situation than the drag that can be created by a few people wanting to put obstacles in the course of educational improvement. And there's a very positive side to that, too. Our good teachers, and there are lots of good teachers in the Chicago system, and our good counselors and other good people in the system, need recognition. They need recognition for the good job they're doing. It is flat out demoralizing to be a good 56 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 teacher, to be doing everything you can, and to look at the next desk there in the teacher's room, and see somebody who's cutting corners every way he can and recognize that the system views you, and treats you, and regards you in the same light. So accountability has to mean taking responsibility for results and giving people room and autonomy to get those results. I say this...I emphasize accountability today because I know that you're facing tons of proposals and ideas about education reform. It's possible to come up with, I know I've seen it in our Legislature at the federal level and other State Legislatures, a 450 page Bill that talks about accountability, that talks about responsibility, but doesn't have any teeth in it. If it doesn't have any teeth in it, it's not going to have any bite and it's not going to get the job done. So accountability. Third. The bureaucracy. The size of the bureaucracy in the Chicago school system and in many other systems around the country is just too big. There is, what we call, 'the Iron Law of the Blob'. The Iron Law of the Blob is this: if the number of students in a district increases, the size of the central bureaucracy will increase. If the number of students in a district decreases, the size of the bureaucracy will increase. Generalizing that law, the size of the bureaucracy will increase no matter what. Now, in. Chicago, recently, you saw a decline, a fairly dramatic decline, in the number of students going into the public schools. You saw a decline in the number of teachers hired. You saw a dramatic increase in the size of the bureaucracy, the size of 'the Blob'. The more people you have in the bureaucracy, the less efficient it becomes, the further removed it becomes from the people, and the more indifferent it becomes. It becomes exceedingly less 57 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 efficient, because it's not clear whose responsibility it is anymore. It's important to attack and shrink 'the Blob'. The fourth point I mentioned because we've seen it work so successfully all over the country, is to work toward an enlarged system of alternative certification, to welcome into the teaching profession those who are committed to the education of the young, who are competent in subject matter, and who are of good character, whatever their backgrounds, whether they are graduates of a teacher's college, or not. We've seen this successfully replicated in many states around the country and we think it's one of the simple and good and positive ideas in American education reform. We did it in New Jersey. We opened up the teaching profession to qualified people, whether they had a school of education background or not, and there's no teaching shortage in any field in the State of New Jersey. The quality of the people coming in under the alternative plan improved. And, they were surprised, but delighted to find out, there was a 15% increase in the number of minorities in the teaching profession thanks to alternative certification. It's a simple idea, and it's a good idea. Let me just mention what we know based on our research and our findings, on a few other matters and then I'll...then I'll stop. There's a lot of talk about early childhood education and I know this has been an intense debate in the City of Chicago. I've read with great interest the coverage on this issue in the Chicago and other Illinois papers. Early childhood can help. There isn't any doubt about it. There isn't any doubt about it. A good early childhood program for children who are four or five can help. However, all the gains, all the gains, which are provided in a good early childhood program, can wash away within one year if the child enters a school that 58 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 isn't good. You can put all the money you want into early childhood, but if the students graduate from early childhood and go into bad schools, it will all be gone within a year or 18 months. I'm a little skeptical about some of the claims for early childhood. It's a bit like ordering an omelet and getting a 12 egg omelet like the K-12 we have now, saying it doesn't taste very good and the chef saying, 'The problem with this 12 egg omelet is it needs 2 more eggs.' There's something wrong with that solution, with that recommendation. Sound educational practice can make room for early childhood, but what's important for the child is the child moves from four years old to twelve years old is consistency, consecutiveness, which is the basic problem with American education. We think, parenthetically, you may be interested, that in the first three years of school in America, we think our kids actually do reasonably well. But we find when we compare our children, our students with students from other countries, is that the first couple of years in general, not in all places, but in general, are pretty good. But the longer you are in school in America, the further behind you fall...children from other industrialized nations. We don't keep up the pace, but we don't raise the level of expectations. Everybody knows about all the distractions that young children face. That's why it's important that school be consistent. There is no way to avoid the harmful effects of bad schools. You cannot inoculate or insulate children at grade four from it and you certainly can't do it after the fact. So school, K-12, is still the critical time. Second, class size. This is an interest on the part of many people. Lots of teachers would like smaller classes. Lots of parents would like smaller classes. As a parent, I like smaller classes. Nevertheless, the research 59 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 is pretty clear. Reducing class size does not increase educational achievement. There simply are no strong research findings to that effect. Unless you get class size down below something like ten or nine or eight, which is unlikely, unfeasible and unaffordable, in just about every jurisdiction in this country. We are gradually getting the class size down in this country. The average class size in America is now about 23. But, as class size was going down in the 60's and 70's, performance was going down as well. There is no strong positive correlation between reduction of class size and educational outcome. You may want to do it for other reasons, but the reasons will have to be other than some confidence that it will lead to increased educational...educational achievement. We talk about the ratio, what we find in the research, is that it's not the 23 to 1 or the 25 to 1 or the 27 to 1 that matters. What matters more is the one, the quality of that one, the quality of that teacher, the ability of that teacher to teach, to keep that classroom orderly and organized and to keep children on task. No matter what else you hear about education, there's one irreducible fact, one thing that has never been dislodged in all the education literature, the single most reliable predictor of whether children will learn is the amount of time they spend on the task to be mastered. If they sit in class for five hours or six hours or seven hours a day, mostly fooling around, they are not going to learn math by osmosis. I f they're spending time on tasks, including homework, they are likely to learn that...that lesson. Finally, the bottom line issue, money. That's a matter that you have responsibility for, that I have some responsibility for as well. And you should know education spending in these United States has tripled in real dollars 60 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 in the last thirty years. It has doubled in real dollars in the last fourteen years. I cannot say that we have seen a commensurate improvement in American education with the expenditure of dollars. Now, the American people seem to be in their collective entity, in their collective being, much like parents are individually. The American people don't really object to spending money on education, spending money on children like parents don't mind spending money on their kids. But, they'd like to believe that they're spending it on something worthwhile. Indeed, what we have found over and over again is that it is not how much you spend, it is how you spend it. We've done 147 studies of this, we've looked at schools all over the country. It is the quality of the principals, the quality of the curriculum, the quality of the teaching force, the quality of parental involvement that will determine educational outcomes much more than the mere fact of money. As you look at education reform, as you look at your packages and your prospects, there are obviously many things you can do and I think one could take some optimism, could take some encouragement from the fact that American education has been improving some in the last five years. But there's nothing inevitable about it. You've got to do the right things. If you don't do the right things, the American...the education of our children won't improve. The nightmare, the thing I fear, in regard to Chicago and some of the other cities that are debating education reform and some of the State Legislatures that will have so much to do with it, is that we will see packages passed that will be called reform packages, but they will be reform packages only in appearance. They will sound good. They will sound as if they will bring things about, but on the bottom line, they won't have real reform, they won't have 61 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day real teeth. They won't have real May 11, 1988 measures of accountability in them, and the net result will be a large package costing 250 or 300 or 400 million dollars and achieving nothing except, perhaps, encouraging even greater cynicism, unhappiness and despair about the system. We can't let that happen, because the issue is too important. If I seem a little edgy, or...impatient, or whatever modifier you choose to use on this topic, I may well be. The reason is, we have been to schools. We've seen schools around this country that work. We know, particularly for our poor and disadvantaged children, there is no surer way into the American main stream than schools that work. Good schools are more powerful predictors of whether children will succeed, than their race, than their background, than their neighborhood, than their parentage. If they go to good schools, they are likely to succeed. And when you see good schools and you see them work in the City of Chicago or any place else, that's what makes you impatient about the ones that don't. I wish you good luck in your efforts. I'd be happy to take any questions if you'd like me to. Thank you very much. Lee would you..."
"The Secretary has agreed to have a few questions and we'll start with Representative Mulcahey from Winnebago. Representative Mulcahey. Would you kind of raise your hand so the Secretary can see you? In the back, Sir."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Secretary, I'd just like to make a couple of comments. First of all, I am the Chairman of the House Elementary and Secondary Education Committee, have been for the past six years. I'd like to point out to you that the State of Illinois responded, and responded very quickly, to your President's call as a result of the report which was called A Nation at Risk. 62 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 And in 1985, we in Illinois passed a very comprehensive Education Reform Act, as a matter of fact, so comprehensive it has... serving as a model to a lot of states throughout the country today. My point that I would like to make as you travel throughout the state, as you travel throughout the United States, when you talk about Illinois, when you talk about education, don't talk in generalities. I think we all know that Chicago does indeed have its problems as do all of the major cities throughout this country. But we in Illinois, in 1985, took the bull by the horn and tried to respond to your President's request and I think we did. And as far as the funding is concerned, this has been a problem, it's been a problem, we knew it was going to be a problem when President Reagan in 1980 came out...or 1981...came out with his New Federalism Program which put the responsibilities back in the hands of the states. So, I'd just like to mention to you that we have worked hard here in Illinois. We have things in place. As a matter of fact, my district...my district, my town, the... Duran... Unit District 132, right now, ranks second in this state in ACT test scores. This is going on, Sir, throughout the State of Illinois. I realize we have problems in the bigger cities. Something has to be done here, but we have taken that step and we took it in 1985, Sir."
"I quite...I quite agree and...I think, as you know, we've been among the first to recognize the accomplishments of Illinois and Illinois schools. There's a fair number of Illinois schools that have...we've been happy to honor, schools and districts in our recognition program at the elementary level and secondary level. I don't...again, I think... I think there's time for, as the Bible says, 'there's a time for praise, there's a time for 63 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 criticism, I think we can all take a little of both now. I think the nation did respond, in the language of my predecessor, Terrill Bell, the nation did respond with a number of good ideas and we've seen some progress in the last five years. But, it's too early to let up. We have to keep...we have to keep the focus on. A lot of people thought that the American people's enthusiasm for educational reform would die out early on after that report. It hasn't, and happily, it's gone into important places, like State Legislatures, where it's still being discussed and debated. I appreciate your point, Sir. Thank you."
"Representative Hasara from Sangamon county."
"Thank you. Mr. Secretary, it's a great honor and I'd like to welcome you to my home town of Springfield."
"Thank you."
"It is indeed an honor to have you here. We in central Illinois as well as those in Chicago are definitely concerned about drugs in our schools and you mentioned that early in your remarks. I would like to hear you comment on whether you feel we in this country have made any progress in that area, and what we as State Legislators may do to help correct this. Thank you."
"Sure. Thank you, drugs. Yes, we actually have made some progress. As you know, or as you may know, I'm one of the avid types...supporters of this...this war on drugs. I think we have to wage it on all fronts. I don't think we can simply focus on the schools or on the demand side. I think you have to be working demand and supply. In the war on drugs, about the only success we can show...this is a 'on the one hand, on the other hand' kind of answer...the only place we can show success is in the schools. The use of drugs by high school seniors, our best 64 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 survey, in the United States has declined. It has declined in the last three years. Drug use is down by high school seniors...with one exception, crack-cocaine. Crack-cocaine is not down, it is steady. About 17% of our high school seniors have used crack and that's way too many. Now that's...that's encouraging, but let's remember the other side of the...of the story. That drug use is down is encouraging, but a lot of people are still using drugs, is discouraging. This doesn't count people who have dropped out of school, who are disproportionately represented as drug users. What should State Legislatures do? I think, in our book, Schools Without Drugs, which Mr. Daniels mentioned, I think we can say that that book is still the state of the art. We studied what works, what's effective in getting drugs out of schools and put it in that book. What works is a good drug education program conjoined with good school policy. A drug education program by itself won't do it. A drug...a good school drug policy can do it by itself, but it's best to have the two. But if you can only have one, policy is important. And by policy, I mean, school must be firm in regard to the use of drugs. In 'Anarondal' County, Maryland, a very effective program, the 'Anarondal' schools, they say the following: 'If you use drugs in this school, you are suspended. You are suspended for a week. You must enter a drug counsel program and your parents must enter with you.' Parents do not like to enter drug counseling programs. When they do, they take revenge on their children by doing things like not letting them use the car and grounding them on weekends and things like that. This is serious business. In 'Anarondal' County, if you are drug pusher or if you use drugs a second time, you are expelled. You are expelled from school. You go to reform school. You can get back in a year later, but for a 65 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 year, you forfeit the company of your friends and your neighbors by going to reform school. This is very tough, some people think too tough, but not the people in 'Anarondal' County who will tell you that drug use is down about 85% and the police in that community confirm that drug use is down about 85%. If we're serious about this issue, we'll be serious about this issue. I think too, that a number of states that looked into the question of the driver's license. A suspension of the driver's license, for using drugs, that's a good idea. I raised this the first time when I was in Arizona and...I said to an audience with a lot of students there, I said, 'If you use drugs, you shouldn't be driving anyway.' But I think that it's a good state law that if you've used drugs, convicted of the use of drugs, you don't get your license for a year, six months, two years. A student came up to me and he said, 'Have you spent a lot of time in Arizona, Mr. Secretary?' and I said, 'Well, a little,' he said, 'Well, you're really serious about this drug thing, aren't you?' I said, 'Yeah, I sure am.' He said, 'I know you are,' he said, 'because if you don't drive in Arizona, you die.' He's talking about standing out there in that desert and I said, 'Well, if you use drugs, you die too.' So...I think this is the right way to go. But, the talk of war is one thing. We have to take the measures commensurate with the threat."
"Senator Berman at Mr. Preston's desk and then Senator Geo-Karis. Senator Berman."
"Thank you... Representative Daniels. Secretary Bennett, welcome to Illinois."
"Thank you."
"I happen to be the counterpart, I Chair the Senate Education Committee, and...was lead sponsor of the 66 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 reform Bill that was mentioned before, and...we appreciate your comments, because much of what you said we built into that reform Bill..."
"Yes, sir."
"...which passed overwhelmingly out of both Houses of this General Assembly. Let me just point out a couple of things that...that I think are true and...of course, in some of your previous comments regarding my home town, Chicago, we're not given...I thought the attention... that they should have been. When we talk about parental involvement, strong principal leadership, and committed teachers, we have a number of those schools in Chicago who have those elements and who do an excellent job for their kids. Our problem is to expand that number of schools, so that virtually all the schools in Chicago and outside of Chicago have those same elements. But when we do that, and we look at the funding questions, those of us on the state level are frustrated, because we have to come up with the dollars, and we don't see that kind of response from the Federal Government, of a commitment to assist us. Money won't solve everything, but in order to give recognition to committed teachers, they ought to get paid more. To give recognition to committed principals, to exercise expanded leadership and responsibilities, they ought to be paid for. To give recognition to counselors, to prevent dropouts, they have to be paid. Those are things that we're going to be faced with in this Session, and from a point of view of fact where you quoted about nationally and expansion of funding of...of education, I regret to advise you that in this State, in constant dollars, actual dollars, we are spending 14% less money today per child from the State of Illinois than we did ten years ago. Therefore, if we're just going to be constant, we have to increase state 67 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 funding. And as one State Legislator, I would like to see the same kind of commitment by the Federal Government as we would like to give. The reform package that we passed, and you talk about just passing laws that aren't meaningful, that Bill was meaningful, but we haven't been able to put the money into it. We put a reading program in that's only funded to a fraction of what we'd like to fund. We have a dropout prevention program that's only funded for a fraction of what it ought to be funded. Where do we get the resources, Mr. Secretary, except from state dollars and from federal money. I'd like to ask you, can we get the same kind of commitment for education that this administration has given to the Contras in Nicaragua?"
"That's a friendly question...Mr. Secretary."
"I took it as such."
"We're going to run him for some kind of office, we just haven't decided which kind yet."
"Alright. I took it as such, but in the spirit of education, basic arithmetic, when's the last time you saw 20 billion dollars go to the Contras, Senator Berman. That's what the Federal Government's been spending for education every year. Whether one agrees with...foreign policy decisions or not, I think it's clear from the authors of The Federalist Paper that the Federal Government's responsibility is the defense of the country. You may disagree with some of those decisions, but that is the Federal Government's sole, and exclusive responsibility. I don't beat up on Government Thompson for not buying any...any...B-1 bombers or paying for the Marine Corp. That's not his job. His job is to pay for the education of children in the State of Illinois with some little help from the Federal Government and others. It's a division of responsibility. Whatever you all decide in 68 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 your budget deliberations, Senator, about spending money is...is your business. But I will tell you, if...you're spending enough money in the City of Chicago to educate those kids and if you just spend more money, I don't think it's going to get...it's going to get any better. And I can prove it to you, because I can take you to cities with problems that are very serious where they're spending less and they're doing a better job. Now, you could start with your central office there on Pershing Road, or Pershing Street, or maybe it's the entire Pershing Quadrangle now and start clearing that up. It's the money you're wasting, Sir. I have no...I have no argument with you about good principals and good teachers deserve more, but bad teachers and bad principals deserve less. As long...as long as everybody's salaries are going up and there are no distinctions of quality and merit, you'll be chasing the dollar signs for...forever. Yes, Ma'am."
"Senator Geo-Karis and then Representative Davis."
"Well...Secretary Bennett, as a part of the Minority Leaders of the Senate, I, too, welcome you here to Illinois. And, talk about money, money doesn't make education alone at all. It's dedication and you and I know that. I'd like to know..."
"Let me..let me say...in fairness, if I may interrupt, money matters. You can't...you can't get it for free. But you gotta buy the right things."
"We understand that."
"And I think, as an act of 'bona fides' with the public, I think it ought to be clear that the money's going to be spent on the right things before another check is written."
"Well, one of the problems that's been encountered in 69 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 the City of Chicago, and I've had teachers talk to me about it, is that they don't feel secure when they teach in certain areas, because they don't have the proper security given them by the School Board of Chicago. Another point that I'd like to bring up with you, what is your position on the fact that some educators who feel very dedicated, feel that the raise in pay should be tailored to performance to the teachers. What is your position and what is the...the unions's position and...the National Education Association's position about that? I think that's very critical and very important."
"Actually what's...I'll tell you what my position is, is that we should reward performance and not reward failure. I would...I would... there are teachers I've seen whose salaries I would double or triple. And there are teachers I've seen whose salaries should be reduced to zero. And this would not only be good for public responsibility, this would in fact be good for the teaching profession, because in some places, sorry I keep bringing up Chicago, but it is the case at hand, the teaching profession and the union has lost a lot of credibility with the people, because it doesn't police itself sufficiently. I sat there with the head of the Chicago Teacher's Union and said, 'You need to get rid of your bad teachers.' And I heard a spiel about the fact that there are no bad teachers, there are only teachers in need of counseling or sabbatical or research fellowships. Now, I know there are bad teachers, you know there are bad teachers, she knows there are bad teachers, teachers know there are bad teachers. As long as you engage in this kind of public...what should I say...fiction, you're not...things aren't going to improve. Now, that's what I think. Now the heads of the unions tend not to...tend to 70 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 think that merit pay is not workable, performance pay is not workable, but the most interesting position, it's not mine, it's not Jackie Vaughn's, the most interesting position is the position of teachers who, in a recent survey, said they would not object to their salaries being based on the achievement of their students, that being counted in part, provided there's a fair way to assess it. And I think there is a fair way to assess it. Teachers are concerned that one recognize that not all children enter the classroom with the same background and the same abilities. You know, some teachers will move kids from here to there, some will move them from there to there. Take those things into account, 60 or 70% of teachers say they would be glad to be judged on performance in that way. But it's not a problem of knowledge. Everybody, in most circumstances, everybody knows who the good teachers are. There are teachers who groan at the...at hearing that their children have been assigned to some other teachers just like other parents groan. This is not something that's impossible to figure out. The straw man that says, 'It'll just be the good old boy network,' has to be shot down. The first group you consult in the evaluation of teachers is other teachers. And 90% of the time, they'll give you an honest answer, because they're in the profession and they want the best among them to be honored and valued."
"So you do believe that it should be tied to performance?"
"Yes."
"I agree. Thank you."
"Yes."
"Representative Davis."
"How do you do, Mr...Secretary?"
"Hi." 71 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988
"...I'm one of those who attended as well as taught in the Chicago public schools. I know that the socioeconomic conditions of the students who attend the schools in Chicago, are quite different than those who attend school in the rest of the state. The Chicago public schools, I do believe, are attempting to educate children of whom 80% come from homes in which they're living below the federally defined poverty lines. It's very difficult to educate a child who comes from a home in which there are not many books, if any books. It's very difficult to educate children whose parents really are not truly aware of what it takes to be a good parent. We feel that if the government in Washington were a bit more concerned with the economic conditions of those in Chicago, we could do a bit better. I also feel that class size is truly significant. And if it is not, then let's increase the class sizes across this state to equal those of that in Chicago. In Chicago, we have 32 or more per class. In the rest of the state it might be 24 or 25. Let's equal that. Either they should come up to 32 or more or we should be decreased to 24 or 25. We also know that in the City of Chicago, the students at 8th grade have certainly come up almost to the national norm. Chicago has been a system that's been neglected. It's neglected financially and it's neglected with the needed resources. There is no...whatever you called it on Pershing road. There's an attempt to have staff available to meet the needs of those very needy pupils who very few people in this country seem to care about. My final question to you is, how do you expect us in education to do more with less while the defense budget increases and you do less with more?"
"Okay...Sorry to intrude the facts again into this, but I have to...I have to do it. The defense budget 72 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 is actually down. It's not up... I think it's unfortunate that it's down, but it's down. We spend 285 billion dollars in this country on national defense. We spend 310 billion dollars on this country...in this country on education, 6.4% of GNP on education, 6% on defense. You can argue whether you get...we're getting our money's worth in defense, I'd say generally yes. But you can certainly make an argument whether we're getting our money's worth in education because the results are not commensurate with the spending. I think you do have problems on Pershing Road. I'll send you a copy of an article from a Chicago magazine that you might enjoy reading. It's called Too Many Bosses. This is the first time I've heard a defense of the bureaucracy in Chicago, but, okay, let's...let's work that one out. In terms of the central part of your question, I couldn't agree with you more about the concern and the worry. The education of the poor and the disadvantaged, yes ma'am, it is difficult to educate children who don't come to school with the advantages, but it's critical to understand that it's not impossible to do so. If it were impossible to do so, we wouldn't be able to do it anywhere. But we are able to do it and I do not believe that what you can do in New York, and what you can do in Dallas, and what you can do in Pittsburg, you cannot do in Chicago. In fact, you can do it in Chicago, because you are doing it in Chicago. As Senator Berman pointed out, there are some fine schools and fine teachers and fine principals. The problem is, that there aren't enough of them. Now whether you and I would disagree in terms of how we talk about Chicago, the reputation, the public relations aspect of Chicago, isn't important. What's important is that 40 to 50% of the kids in Chicago schools drop out and of the kids that remain, about 50% of them scored the bottom 1% of the 73 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 country. That's lousy and their poverty and their race is no excuse, because children can be educated if adults would take the time and do the right things. But you can't buy it. You can't buy it. I have been in classrooms in Chicago with great teachers and great principals and I have to tell you, I've seen some that just plain stink."
"We...We must...we must move on. Representative Williamson, then Senator Holmberg, then we'll finish with a Senator on this side and that, I'm sorry, we'll have to stop the line of questioning. We have about 20 lights up here, Secretary Bennett, I know that you'd like to address them all. We certainly appreciate your time."
"Yes. I got to go."
"Representative Williamson."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Secretary, also, welcome to Springfield, and we're very honored to have you here. I represent the Suburban Cook County School District, several of which are here today. We are finding that many of the students from the City of Chicago are moving into the suburban area to attend our schools. I am often questioned and criticized about the City of Chicago and their school system. If you were the Superintendant of the City of Chicago, what recommendations would you make to that school board with the problems that exist in the school today, such as pupil performance, dropout rate? Could you address some of those issues?"
"Sure. I...I would do what I essentially outlined in my...in my remarks. I don't want to repeat them again. I would find out...I would find out who wants the jobs, that is who really wants the jobs of...job of being principal, first of all and I would say, 'Alright, you can be principal, but whether you remain principal will depend on your performance and the performance of the 74 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 students in the school.' And then I would hope that principal would carry that some message to the teachers. That is, I'd introduce some measure of accountability. I'd put into place the kind of anti-drug program that I suggested from 'Anarondal'...'Anarondal' county and I would start to recognize quality teachers by...by their performance. Those are the things I'd start...I'd start doing. I'd probably also put...after studying it, some number of reductions that I think are needed in...in the size of the bureaucracy and I would institute measures to allow for greater parental control, choice of schools and greater parental control at the...at the local level. Those would be some of the things I'd start out by doing."
"Senator Holmberg."
"Thank you very much and welcome to Springfield, Secretary Bennett. I...I'm Senator Joyce Holmberg, Vice Chairman of the Elementary and Secondary Education Committee in the Senate and from Rockford, Illinois. You speak today of parental involvement in the aspect of choice only. You also mentioned that early childhood education, research proves, is wiped out by a school that is less than adequate. I beg to differ and I would like to walk you very briefly...through the reasons why. We know, of course, that good schools are very important, but we also are very aware that parental involvement, particularly as the schools or other parts of society can take control over it through parent education, is very critical to a child's early learning years. Organizations like Sears Foundation are turning dramatically to share all of their funding in the areas of early childhood education, because they believe that's where we can truly make a difference. If you take a look at the research...from the Brookline, Massachusetts Project, from the Living Room School Project 75 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 in New York, from the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee Project, what the State of Missouri is doing, what the State of Minnesota is doing, what Ipsilon in Michigan has been doing for years, you will find that they find, by starting at birth, that the competent three year old is a competent six year old, and a competent nine year old, and a competent twelve year old. That what you do with those children in the early years follows through. That is why we need to reach out and get to all children, regardless of what school they may enter. It is certainly one thing to hold a mirror up to someone or to some school system or to some group of children to show them their defects later on. It's another thing to step in early and I'm wondering what the Federal Government is going to do in these critical errors...areas, to help these children at the beginning."
"Right, let me answer your question first, and then comment on your general points of which I agree. I think we'll probably see an expansion of HEADSTART. We've advanced a number of ideas on the whole area of child care, early childhood care and some suggestions and problematic suggestions in the area of early childhood. For example, the last we've been arguing that a lot of our Chapter I Funds, we think could be better spent early on. Those are three things. But let me..let me mention the parental involvement. Your quite right about parental involvement, and I did say as well as giving parents' choice and some degree of control, that parent is the first teacher, and the all but indispensable teacher. Parental involvement makes a great difference. We know that. However, we can not assume for all children entering the system, that they've had this kind of parental involvement. The question then, is what do we do then? Do we give up? And the answer is no. Someone said well what about children 76 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 who have had nothing from their parents for the first four years of their life. The answer to that is, they may be lost. But they shouldn't be lost forever. And good schools have to work harder at it. I recognize that. Everyone recognizes that, but they can do the job. The Garrison School in the South Bronx, there isn't one child from one intact family in that school. Hundred percent of those children are on free lunch, way below the poverty line. The social backgrounds of those children are as unfortunate as any in the country. Ninety percent or eighty-five percent of the children are reading and doing math at or above grade level. It's not a magnet school either, it's a neighborhood school. Why? Because the adults in that place, let's face it, are acting like surrogate parents. They are the heroes of society. They should be compensated, much better than they're getting. Those people should be. You go to that class, and you talk to those third graders and you see that this is a place where teachers and administrators are taking the place of parents. I talked to two eight year olds, I said, 'Why is this a great school?' And they said to me alternately, 'there's no fooling around and no messing around and everybody loves you.' Here's a good definition of an elementary school. And their getting it together there, their not giving up. But I will tell you there are too many schools in New York City and other cities where people are saying just this. While recognizing the important influence of socioecomonic background and class, they do something like this in their minds. 'These children are poor, they are black, they are from broken families, they are lost. There is nothing we can do for them. Their parents don't care about them, they live in bad neighborhoods. What can they expect us to do?' That 77 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 conclusion, is disaster. It's disaster for the next generation. Parents, everybody has to be mobilized, but no matter what the background of the child, the schools cannot give up. Michael Novak said, 'The family is the original department of health, education and welfare.' And he's right, it is. But we do have other departments of health, education and welfare. And one of the reasons they are there, is to take the place when that first responsibility doesn't succeed or doesn't work. I think, your analysis and my analysis go in the same direction. If you want parents to be more significantly involved, you have to give them opportunities to be more significantly involved. And when parents feel they can make a choice about their children's school, when they will be listened to, as to the content and quality of their children's education, it's more likely more of them will be involved. I thank you for your point."
"Our last question, Senator Keats. Short question, Sir? Senator Keats is the very last one."
"Recently you offered a suggestion to help students at the bottom end of the achievement level to take perhaps the lowest 15% in the public schools, shift them into the private schools, replacing the private schools with some of the money to follow them. Could you just expand on that concept that you had talked about recently?"
"Yeah, it was actually addressed to the National Catholic Education Association. What I said to the Catholic School people was this; that two stories appearing on the same page of the paper bothered me. They were side by side. One said, James Coleman, University of Chicago, notes effectiveness of Catholic Schools in educating poor disadvantaged children. The other story said twenty-third Catholic School in city to close. These 78 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 are the two things that kind of jar you. And what I said was, that if Catholic Schools or other schools, doesn't matter matter what their sponsorship, do a good job. It seems to me they should not be going out of business, and ways should be found to support such schools, either through private money or constitutionally permissible use of public funds. Because, we have a lot of good schools in this society, but let's face it, we don't have an over supply of good schools. We don't have too many good schools. And if we've got a good school, I don't care if it is Catholic, Jewish, Evangelical, Christian, Hindu, Moslem. If it's a good school, it shouldn't go out of business. We need every good school we can get. And that was the point of those remarks. It's worth pointing out, that.. in again forenamed City of Chicago, there's a fairly successful Catholic School System. It works pretty well. It works with about one fiftieth, two percent, the number of administrators per student, as in the public system. The argument ... the argument will be made that the public system has to take everybody, and that's true. And my offer and invitation to Catholic Schools, was to offer to take some of the children who are not succeeding in public schools, to show with the mission of that church, other church schools could do it too, is... that is to minister to the poorest and the weakest, and to those with the least means, as a way of showing good faith, and as a way of showing the public that such schools are serious. Now the response of course, as many wrote to me, was that many of these schools are doing just that right now, and I understand that. But, it's not Private, Catholic, Parochial, Public, the most interesting thing of all about good schools, is no matter what their sponsorship, they always look the same. Leo Tolstoy wrote in one of his 79 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 novels, 'all happy families are alike.' I've been to a hundred schools in this country, most the time I have been to inner city schools for the disadvantaged, for poor kids, and let me tell you they are more alike than they are different, and they are marked by certain things. Committed, caring adults, who focus on the right things, who spend time on the right curriculum, who don't tolerate drugs, who enforce discipline, and who also give a lot of hugging at the elementary levels to the kids. Good schools are good schools if we can get them, there's no secret. It's not a matter of buying them, it is a matter of paying for them, that's for sure. But we haven't spent enough time thinking about how to spend the money. If we do, we can make better education for everybody in all of those schools. Thanks a lot."
"Ladies and Gentlemen, we owe a debt of gratitude to the Secretary of Education, William Bennett. Thank you very much, Sir.
"Would the Members please remain in their chairs. So... we have not finished the Joint Session, there is another section of the Joint Session which has been planned for several weeks. So, if the Members would please remain in their chairs, the Democrats could return to their chairs, Mr. Bugielski, please be seated. Mr. Clerk, would you read Joint Session Resolution #5?"
"Joint Session Resolution #5, offered by Representative Kulas. Whereas, on May 2, 1988, President Reagan signed Senate Joint Resolution #235 which states that the U.S. Government officials should have nothing to do with Soviet anniversary observances, marking the one-thousandth year of Christianity so long as individuals remain harassed and imprisoned for their religious beliefs in the Ukrainian Catholic, Ukrainian Orthodox and Ukrainian 80 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Evangelistic Churches remain outlawed, and whereas it has come to our attention, that President Reagan has scheduled a visit to Russian Orthodox Monastery during the Moscow Summit. Therefore, be it resolved by the Joint Session of the House of Representatives in the Senate of the 85th General Assembly of the State of Illinois, that we commend President Reagan for signing Senate Joint Resolution #235, but that we ask that the President reconsider his visit to the Russian Orthodox Monastery, which has been made a showcase to bolster the state sanctioned, submission.. submissive Russian Orthodox Church, while cloaking communist persecution of religion. And be it further resolved that we ask instead that President Reagan, in his talks with Prime Minister Gorbachev, pursue the matter of the outlawed Ukrainian churches, and ask why glosnost does not apply to the Ukrainian nation in the Soviet Union. And be it further resolved, that suitable copies of this Preamble and Resolution, be presented to President Reagan and to the National Committee to commemorate the millennium of Christianity in the Ukrainian."
"Ladies and Gentlemen, we are very pleased today to be able to conduct a Ukrainian Memorial Service. The master of ceremonies for this service will be our own Representative Myron Kulas, an immigrant to this country from the Ukraine. So at this time, Representative Kulas."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 85th General Assembly. I am privileged today, to welcome to Springfield hundreds of citizens of Illinois of Ukrainian descent, who are here today to commemorate the millennium of Christianity in Ukraine. It would be befitting if we started our program with a prayer, and I would ask the Most Reverend Bishop Innocent Lotocky of the Ukrainian Catholic Church to do the invocation. Will you please rise?" 81 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 102nd Legislative Day
"Let us pray. Almighty and eternal Father, send forth Your blessings upon all those who invoke Your Holy name. We, your sons and daughters, thank You for giving our Ukrainian people an opportunity one thousand years ago to know Your son Christ the Lord, His teachings, and allowed us through the Holy Sacrament of Baptist, to become Your children. We pray for a deeper faith, a stronger hope and a greater love for each other. Grant, that we in this land of freedom where trust is placed in a Supreme Being from the time of its founding, may learn to build each other up. May we learn that love conquers all. Permit our people in this nation in which we dwell, to remain loyal to You and to grow constantly in faith. Grant, that all nations everywhere may come to understand fully the significance of love and mutual respect. Grant, that our persecuted brothers and sisters in Ukrainian may come to know the joy of worshiping You in freedom and peace. We ask this through Christ our Lord. Amen. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."
"Thank you. At this time I would ask the President of the Senate, Senator Phillip Rock, to lead us in the pledge of allegiance."
"I would ask all Members to join. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"Thank you. At this time, Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to introduce some of the people that I have here on the podium. You have heard from the Most Reverend Arch Bishop....Most Reverend Bishop Innocent Lotocky, with the Bishop of St. Nicholas Diocese for the Ukrainian Catholic Church. We have the Most Reverend Arch Bishop Constantine, of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. We have Mr. Roman Mycyk, 82 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 the Chairman of the Ukrainian Millennium Committee. We have Dr. Myroslav Charkewycz, the Chairman of the Ukrainian Congress Committee of America, Illinois Division. We have Pastor Olexa Harbuziuk, of the Ukranian Baptist Church. And he have Julian Kulas, an attorney, he's a member of the U.S. Delegation to the Helsinki Review Conference. He's a member of the U.S. Holocaust Council, and he's also my brother. We also have with us Mrs. Anastazia Charysh, Chairwoman of the United Ukrainian Women's Organizations, and Mrs. Marta Farion, Executive Secretary of the committee. Mr. Myroslav Semchyshyn, Executive Director of the Millennium Committee, and Mrs. Zena Bihun, Secretary of the Millennium Committee. At this time, I will call upon the Most Reverend Arch Bishop Constantine, to address the Members."
"Thank you. Mr. Speaker, and Mr. President, distinguished Members of the Legislature, your Excellency, Reverend Clergy, Ladies and Gentlemen. Divine providence has brought the Ukrainian people throughout the world to the most solemn and significant anniversary in the history of the Ukrainian Nation. The millennium of acceptance of eastern Christianity as the state religion by 'Kievanous' that precursor of modern Ukraine. A millennium has passed from that immortal day, when the light of the Christian faith illuminated all the land of 'Kievanous' the mighty state of our Ukrainian forefathers, which by the will of Prince Vladimir the Great, then became an integral part of the family of Christian Nations. Ukrainians around the world have inaugurated the holy jubilee year, by giving thanks to almighty God for innumerable glorious events, recorded in the chronicals of our national and church history. Rendering thanks for the renowned individuals who came forth from the Ukrainian people; the hierarchs, the 83 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 priests, the monastics, during the course of the last ten years, who devoted their lives by planting the seeds of the Christian faith in our homeland and beyond its borders. Yes, we are offering thanks, we are offering thanks for the generations of common laborers, who were devout children of Christ. The generations which came before us, those anonymous millions who worked diligently, who created our national culture, who erected churches, prayed, raised their children and passed onto them the love for the true faith in church. The love for high morals, the love of their Ukrainian heritage. It is to these great people, that we are indebted for a rich inheritance of which we are proud and...of which we share with our fellow American citizens, thereby embellishing the mosaic of our multi-cultural society. From the time of their conversion to Christianity, the Ukrainian people developed into strong believers and proponents of their faith without regard to the fact that fate has not always been kind to our Ukrainian nation. Even today, even today as President Reagan wrote to the Primate of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church is the attitude metropolitan... is solved. President Reagan writes, 'Even today the faithful living under Soviet domination display the perseverance of their ancestors in the face of totalitarianism, and they will continue to do so'. Yes, they will continue this..to do so, because history repeats itself. In the centuries that would follow their conversion to Christ, the Ukrainian people would be martyred for their true beliefs and the invading hordes, the tartar hordes as well as by the nations emerging around Ukraine, such as Russia, which arose from Moscovite in the 18th century, long, long after 988 and the baptism of 'Kievanous' the Moscovite Church with its declaration of autocephaly and its erection of a 84 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 patriarchate in 1589, pursued a course closely following the rising Moscovite state and sought to establish itself as a third Rome having appropriated, having appropriated the 'Kievanous' Church legacy, as what they deemed as a normal self-legitimization, but nonetheless representing a distortion in history. The Soviet rulers today like their autocratic, czarist predecessors, they are skilled in manipulating history. And to make it serve their ends, ends which typically involve the legitimization of the existing regime and the enhancement of its prestige. Nowhere is this more evident today, than in the Soviets' declaration of the millennium of the Russian Church which in... to all truth, has another 400 years to wait. A millennium of the Russian Church, this is a distortion of history. It is an usurpation of the Kievan prerogative. There is little recognition by the Russians of the fact that Kiev, Kiev remained a Christian center for one-thousand years. That Kiev, capitol of Ukraine, held orthodoxy for the entire world after Constantinople fell into the hands of the Turks. It will hardly be noted in the Soviet celebration of the millennium that Kievan Metropolia was revived in the fifteenth century and in 1620, and again was reborn in the Ukrainian Autocephaly Orthodox Church in the 1920's and 40's. The existence of the Ukrainian Catholic Church formed in 1596 and preserving the Kievan tradition will be ignored for sure. Since that church has become illegal in the Soviet Union since 1946, and there will be no mention whatsoever of the Evangelical and Baptist Church of Ukraine. For they like the Orthodox and Catholics' Churches are viewed by the Soviets as a national threat, as a national threat, they are churches that encourage and inspire Ukrainian nationalism. This then, the millennium, will be treated as the exclusive 85 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 property of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian historical tradition. We repudiate, we repudiate such a distortion of history and the appropriation of the Ukrainian rights. We repudiate the prohibition of religious literature in Ukraine by the atheistic 'Red' regime. The prohibition of thousands of churches where bells no longer toll, where doors are no longer open, for members to freely worship, we repudiate the forceable rosification which plagues our Ukrainian homeland. The faithful living under Soviet domination, especially the Ukrainians, display the perseverance of their ancestors in the face of totalitarianism and they will continue to do so. This millennium of faith promises great hope for the future of humanity and for the triumph of the spirit over materialism and over tyranny. I join you in recalling the words of the Master recorded by the Apostle John. 'In the world You will have tribulation. But be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.' Thus wrote, President Reagan. Thank you."
"Thank you, thank you Archbishop Constantine. We have with us today, there's about 10 busloads of people from the Chicagoland and suburban Chicago area, we have some children from the St. Nicholas Ukrainian Catholic School who will now sing for us, 'God Bless America.' The children from St. Nicholas Ukrainian Catholic School."
"Thank you, thank you. At this time I will call upon my colleague from the other side of the rotunda, Senator Walter Dudycz, to read the Senate Resolution."
"Thank you, Representative. Thank you, Representative Kulas, and if I may I would like to also recognize my brother, who is with us here. He's the one that is recording this very historic event. And I.. we of Illinois' Ukrainian American community thank President Rock 86 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 and Speaker Madigan for holding this afternoon's Joint Session of House and Senate observing the millennium of Christianity in Ukraine. Senate Resolution #1000 offered by Senator Walter Dudycz, whereas this year Ukrainians throughout the world are celebrating the millennium of the coming of Christianity to Ukraine. And whereas in 988, St. Vladimir a grand prince of Kiev was baptised accepting Christianity as the official religion of 'Kievanous'. And whereas throughout 1988, the Ukrainian American Community in Illinois will hold a number of events in celebration of this millennium. And whereas, the Chicago Ukrainian American Community is sponsoring the following events; a proclamation at the State Capitol on May 11th; a youth people's jamboree at the YMCA campus on May 28th to the 30th; a conference at the University of Illinois, June 20th to the 25th; a religious commemoration in Olive Park, Chicago on July 31st; a festival in the Ukrainian village area September 10th and the 11th. A concert of Ukrainian music at Orchestra Hall, in Chicago on November..on October 16th, and a gala banquet at Chicago's Fairmont Hotel on November 19th. And whereas, although there will be celebrations throughout the world, no one will be making a pilgrimage to Ukraine, because there the Ukrainian Orthodox and Catholic Churches are repressed and only the Russian Orthodox Church is permitted. Therefore, be it resolved, by the Senate of the 85th General Assembly of the State of Illinois, that we join Ukrainians throughout the world in honoring the millennium of Ukrainian Christianity and in promoting the spread of religious freedom and toleration throughout the world. And be it further resolved, that a suitable copy of this Preamble and Resolution be presented to Chairman Roman Mycyk of the Commemoration Committee, Illinois Chapter, with our esteem and our best wishes. 87 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Signed, Philip J. Rock, President of the Senate, Linda Hawker, Secretary."
"Thank you, Senator Dudycz. Most of you didn't have a.... the opportunity, because you were up here listening to the Secretary of Education, Bennett, addressed the General Assembly at noontime in the rotunda. We had some of the young people's choir 'Bida' was entertaining the people downstairs. They would like to sing one song here, they're in the Speaker's Gallery. They would like to sing one song in tribute to all the Legislators. It's called..., which in Ukrainian means, they wish all of you a long an healthy life. (The choir Bida sing). Thank you. At this time I would like to introduce my brother, Julian Kulas, for some brief remarks and an introduction."
"Thank you, Myron. Mr. Speaker, Mr. President of the Senate, distinguished Members of both Houses, Most Reverend Bishops and Reverend Clergy, Ladies and Gentlemen. This is a very special and a very significant occasion for us. Over one hundred thousand Illinoisans, including Mike Ditka, who have traced their roots, their ancestry and family ties to Ukraine. The acceptance of Christianity in Kiev 1000 years ago, is of tremendous importance to all Ukrainians. Through the acceptance of Christianity, Ukraine has joined a community of nations, and the Christian religion became the binding force of destiny that United the Ukrainian people on their march through the millennium. Over the years, Ukrainian people endured severe national and religious persecution and oppression. First they had to defend their homeland from the invading hordes of Mongols and Tartars, and then they suffered at the hands of the Russian Czars and now the Soviet Government. Today, 1000 years after Christianity was introduced, religious freedom is severely restricted. 88 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Despite Mr. Gorbachev's proclamations of glosnost and openness, religious persecution is still a stark reality in Ukraine. Despite the fact that religious freedom is guaranteed by the Helsinki Accords, by the International Covenance and the Declarations of Human Rights, such severe restrictions still remain. The Ukrainian, Orthodox, Catholic and the Protestant Churches have been outlawed. The religious leaders have been harassed, imprisoned and even exiled, daring to practice their religion. According to a State Department document published recently, the Soviets have destroyed over 150 Ukrainian churches in the past two and a half years. That indicates to us a serious contradiction in the policy of glosnost. As a witness of that reality, we are privileged to have with us (.......) a prolific writer and poet. He became the Secretary General of the Ukrainian Writers Union. In 1975, he joined a Soviet Branch of Amnesty International. He began to write and speak out against denial of basic human rights and against the rosification process. For that he was expelled from the Writers' Union and his books were banned. Towards the end of 1976, he became the organizer and the Chairman of the Ukrainian Helsinki Monitors, and shortly thereafter in February of 1977, he was arrested for anti-Soviet agitation and sentenced for a long term to a hard labor camp. In 1981, his wife is arrested for receiving illegal correspondence from him in disseminating it as anti-Soviet materials. She is sentenced to three years at the Mardovian Labor Camp. During his incarceration, he met many prisoners of conscience and religious leaders. Some of them spent half of their lifetime in camps. Under continued pressure from Amnesty International and various western governments, in January of this year, he was released and allowed to leave with his wife to the West. 89 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 He is the latest live witness of the Soviet reality. May I introduce to you, (Micarlado Dancoh). Would you please stand up."
"Thank you. The millennium of the conversion of the Kievan State to Christianity has been transformed from a religious and historical observance into a political event, and as such, is recently being used for political declarations. The main event is held not in Kiev, the capitol of Ukraine, but but in Moscow, the capitol of the oppressors and which came into being several centuries after Christianity was received by our forefathers. Unfortunately, beyond the borders of the Soviet Union, the Kievan State and now Ukraine is very often equated to Russia without qualifications. The western world needs to be reminded that Ukrainians, like Lithuanians, Latkin, Armenians and all the other captive nations are not Russians, and that they aspire to self determination and an opportunity to freely and openly practice their religion. We Ukrainian Americans living in Illinois are grateful to you, Ladies and Gentlemen, for making this unique event possible. For us this is truly a historical occasion and a tribute to the democratic system in which we live. For to make a meaningful contribution to life in these United States, we must not only retain the memories of an illustrious past, but we must also keep alive our customs, our traditions, our Christian identity as a people. In short, all these traits for which our brothers and sisters in the homeland are persecuted. Thus we Ukrainians perhaps more than any other citizens of these United States, appreciate and cherish this glorious American freedom, which enables us to be ourselves, to serve the Ukrainian cause by being good, loyal Americans, by exercising our rights and our privileges as citizens of these United 90 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 States. Ladies and Gentlemen, it is both fitting and just, that we should mark this anniversary of Ukrainian Christianity in the Illinois Capitol, the home of our great President Abraham Lincoln, who preserved the American Union during the Civil War and who brought freedom to millions. It is Abraham Lincoln who said, 'I believe this Government cannot endure half slave and half free'. There is a subtle symbolism inherent in these proceedings here today, which intimates to us that the liberty and freedom in this country will eventually become the precious heritage of the Ukrainian people and all the enslaved people of the world. May almighty God, grant all of us the grace of living this moment. Thank you very much."
"You have all heard the Clerk read Joint Session Resolution #5. On that Resolution, the Chair recognizes Representative Kulas."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the 85th General Assembly. First of all, let me on behalf of the Ukrainian Community, thank Speaker Madigan, Senator Phillip Rock, Minority Leader Daniels, Minority Leader Phillips. Thank them for allowing us this opportunity to share with you what we love and believe. The Ukrainian community wants to thank you for this. On the Resolution... you've heard the Resolution, the Resolution in fact commends President Reagan for his stance, but it also asks him to reconsider when he goes down to Moscow in a couple of weeks, to reconsider visiting a Russian Monastery. A Russian Monastery which, up until four years ago was a prison for little children. I won't belabor the point, I think you've heard what the previous speakers have said, and I would move for the adoption of Joint Session Resolution #5."
"On that question, the Chair recognizes 91 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Representative Braun."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to make a Motion that all House and Senate Members be added as Co-sponsors to the Resolution."
"The Lady has moved that all House and Senate Members be added as Co-sponsors to the Resolution. Is there any objection to that Motion? There being no objection, it shall be so ordered. On the question of the Resolution the Chair recognizes Representative Pullen."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I rise in total support of this Resolution, including the Sections which request our President to make a change in his travel plans. I think that it is unwise counsel that he has received to be visiting a monastery in Soviet occupied Ukraine as though there is religious freedom anywhere within the Soviet empire. It is a tragedy in my estimation and I hope that he will heed our Resolution. Thank you."
"Representative Pedersen."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have an outstanding Ukrainian community and church in Palatine, where I live. And we're proud of them, and grateful they chose Palatine to live. In urging your support of Joint Session Resolution #5, remember that this proud people suffered starvation of millions of their homefolk in the thirties. We should remember that they offered fierce resistance to an abominable regime which included the creation of what we today call gorilla warfare. The courage, stedfastness, and example of Ukrainians is an inspiration to the whole world. So, we should be receptive to their concerns as expressed in House Resolution... in Joint Session Resolution #5. And I urge a 'yes' vote."
"Mr. Kubik." 92 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day
"Thank you Mr. May 11, 1988 Speaker. I rise in support of Joint Session Resolution #5, and would like to briefly offer a personal observation. I don't think any Members of this audience of this General Assembly could have been greater moved by an event that I witnessed about two months ago, where the Pastor Harbuziuk, brought into his church, the largest group of Ukrainian refugees, one family of over 20 people who came to America, forced to come to America for committing the ultimate crime in the Soviet Union. That is to practice their own religion. And I saw the love and the admiration in the Ukrainian Baptist Church, when these people came to America, and it was an utterly moving experience to see our country open our arms to people who obviously would have rather remained in the Ukraine had they been able to practice their religion, but were forced to leave their country, their friends, and unfortunately three members of their own family, because they were forced out by the Soviet Union. And I think it is for those kinds of people, and the thousands and thousands and millions of others who suffer the same fate, that we ought to unanimously support this Resolution and always remember that the struggle against communism is never over. The struggle against religious freedom is never over. These Resolutions are important. These moments are important, because many of the people who have suffered the injustices of the Soviet system and the communist system, are looked upon, I think sometimes, maybe with a little bit of ...well, why are these people doing this? They're doing it because this is a ongoing struggle, and we have to teach our young people that the system that we have and the system that the Soviet's have, is different and we've got to continue this fight. So I commend Representative Kulas and Senator Dudycz, and all the members of the Ukrainian 93 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 community, and ask you to do just one thing, teach the children of the pain and the suffering and the persecution of religion and of freedom that is going on in the Ukraine and of all the Soviet block countries. I happen to be a Czech American, SO I can sympathize a little bit of what the Ukrainian's feel. Continue to struggle, and I promise you I'll be there to support you, and I think many of my colleagues will be as well."
"Those in favor of the adoption of the Resolution will say 'aye', those opposed say 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, the Resolution is adopted. This will conclude the Ukrainian memorial service. We would invite our guests to remain for just a short time, because we now plan to consider a Resolution concerning the death of former Governor Ogilvie. So, Mr. Clerk, would you read Joint Session Resolution #6."
"Joint Session Resolution #6. Whereas, the Members of this Body are deeply saddened to learn of the death of former Illinois Governor, Richard Buell Ogilvie; and WHEREAS, Mr. Ogilvie was regarded as one of the state's dominate political figures in the post-war era; and WHEREAS, the former Republican Governor gained the respect and admiration of members of both his own and the Democrat Party; and WHEREAS, Mr. Ogilvie spurred Illinois into a modern era by reorganizing the Executive Branch of State Government, reforming the budget process and creating the State Transportation Department and the Environmental Protection Agency; and WHEREAS, during his term in office, Richard Ogilvie presided over the enactment of a new State Constitution, the first in a century; and WHEREAS the World War II Tank Commander brought his tactical skills to state government in modernizing and strengthening state law enforcement agencies and initiating a highway improvement 94 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 program; and WHEREAS, Mr. Ogilvie began his political career as a countywide Chairman of the Cook County Young Republicans, an organization in which he became active during his years at Chicago-Kent College of Law; and WHEREAS, in 1958, Mr. Ogilvie was appointed as a special assistant in charge of the Justice Department's midwest office to combat organized crime; and WHEREAS in his role as Strike Force Attorney, Mr. Ogilvie gained the public attention when he obtained a conviction against mob boss, Anthony J. Accardo; and WHEREAS, Mr. Ogilvie went on to be elected Cook County Sheriff in 1962 and County Board President four years later, the last Republican to hold that office; and WHEREAS in his characteristic straightforward style, Richard Ogilvie took the lead to institute a state income tax and save Illinois from a financial ruin, disregarding the possible political consequences for himself; and WHEREAS, with proceeds from tax revenues, the former Governor increased state spending on education to improve the state university system and give public schools more aid; and WHEREAS, even after leaving public office, Mr. Ogilvie remained active in public life; and WHEREAS, the former Governor served as an advisor and trouble-shooter to five Chicago Mayors, and successfully supervised the completion of the trouble-plagued McCormick Place annex project in 1985; and WHEREAS, only one week before his death, Mr. Ogilvie had agreed to become Chairman of the Chicago Housing Authority Board to examine reforms to the CHA; and WHEREAS, a graduate of Yale University is widely recognized as one of the notable Governors of the post-war..World War II era, when Ronald Reagan was Governor of California and New York's Chief Executive was Nelson Rockefeller; and WHEREAS, bravery, strength and fortitude displayed by Mr. Ogilvie in 95 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 recovering from a World War II shell fragment wound, for which he was awarded the Purple Heart, served him well as both a public official and public figure; now therefore be it resolved by the House of Representatives and the Senate of the 85th General Assembly, of the State of Illinois, that we do hereby express our deep appreciation for Richard Buell Ogilvie's efforts on behalf of the citizens of this state, and be it further RESOLVED that we express our deepest sympathy to his wife Dorothy Louise and daughter Elizabeth Sims; and be it further RESOLVED, that suitable copies of this Resolution and Preamble be presented to them."
"Mr. Ropp."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess we always look back at. a time that we give our credit to a particular position, that we finally find ourselves as a part of our life. And certainly I can recall the time that this man, maybe above some who questioned whether or not it was a good political move, but he was the kind of man who always did what he thought was best and right. And you look to a young kid, dairy farmer, to serve in his cabinet. I had that pleasure to be that particular individual. Because of the faith and the confidence and the courage that this man had, I can say that I have been a better person having the opportunity to represent people and serve in State Government. This man was a man who was not a tall man physically, but he was a man who represented the people. He always had that pipe, and I could always remember a particular picture of him smoking that pipe that was characterized that said, 'does this man have charisma'? Yes, he had charisma. He had the best interests of the people of the State of Illinois at heart at all times. He was a man who was a leader. He was a man who was willing to speak out and represent people, 96 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 even though at times they felt he was not correct and not right. And I guess the thing that we'll always remember him for is his downfall. The fact that even though he knew revenue was needed in the State of Illinois, and pursued a state income tax which has stood for some nineteen years now, is one of the things that he is best remembered for, because he knew it was important and the State has prospered for it. And as a result, I'm always reminded of a saying that goes something like this. 'To start something so big, that it will take others decades to finish, is man's noblest deed.' Governor Richard B. Ogilvie, I will personally miss you, but will long remember the things that you started."
"Mr. Daniels."
"Yes, Representative Ropp, he was a problem-solver, bold leader and courageous person. Courageous in his convictions. Dick Ogilvie was visionary in thought and deed, he was straightforward, he knew where he stood. When he sponsored the state's first income tax, he was once quoted as saying, 'Did I want to be a mediocre 8-year Governor or a really good 4-year Governor.' He realized what he was doing, but he realized what had to be done to keep Illinois economically healthy. The late President John Kennedy said this about courage, 'A man does what he must, in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures. And that is the basis of all human reality.' The late diplomat editor and playwrite, Claire Claire Booth Luce, said this about courage: 'Courage is the ladder on which all the other virtues mount.' These sayings, these quotes, these thoughts, these ideas, epitomized and represented as a tribute to Governor Richard Ogilvie. He is a man we will all miss. He is a man we will never forget. He is a man 97 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 that generations of Illinois citizens and students and pupils in our educational system and our mental health system will thank for his vision, for his help, for his assistance. Truly, his footprints in the sand will last forever."
"Mr. Tuerk."
"Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. I spent my first four years in this Body, when Governor Ogilvie was the Governor of this State. As a result of being a rookie and as a result of the necessity for some guidance, in my early days, I often had the opportunity to sit down with Dick Ogilvie, and discuss some very serious matters, serious to my district and also serious to the State of Illinois. In Dick Ogilvie, I always found him to be a patient man, he gave me great guidance. He got me started on the right track, I feel in this Body. He's a man that..as Representative Daniels and Representative Ropp have said so eloquently, he has left his mark. And his mark will always be remembered. In my estimation, Governor Dick Ogilvie was the epitome of true public service, true public service, because he was the type that didn't need to be around picking up the posies for all the things that he had done for the people of this State and this Nation. But he was the type of man who did them, because he thought it was right, and because he thought he was doing the state a service. And for that, I'll always remember him as one of the greatest public servants the State of Illinois has ever seen. And we'll truly miss him."
"Representative Wyvetter Younge."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The... Governor Ogilvie is a person that all the people in the State of Illinois will always be proud of. I am personally proud that my husband and I had an opportunity to campaign for him when he first 98 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 ran for Governor, and this is one of the things that I am very proud of, because he did a good job and he was a fine man and I shall miss him."
"Senator Phillip at Representative Daniels desk."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House and Senate. I've had the pleasure of knowing and working with Dick Ogilvie for over thirty years. I can never remember a sheriff, a president of the county board or a Governor with any more courage and guts than Dick Ogilvie. I had the privilege of being down here when Dick first got elected. And at some point, he decided he was going to be for State Income Tax, and he took heat like you will never never know. We were in the majority in the House. Most of the heat came from our side of the aisle. I will say this for Dick Ogilvie, he never wavered, he stood up, he did the right thing and we passed the first State Income Tax to his credit. Dick, I know you're up there looking down on us today, with a smile on your face. You left a great record in Illinois and we're going to miss you."
"The question is, 'Shall the Resolution be adopted?' And before we move to the question, there is a Motion by Senator Rock that all Members of the House and Senate be added as Sponsors of this Resolution. Is there any objection? There being no objection, it shall be so ordered. On the question of the Resolution, those in favor will say 'aye', those opposed say 'no'. The 'ayes' have it, the Resolution is adopted. We are now prepared to end the Special Session. Senator Rock is recognized at Mr. McPike's desk."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Members of the House and Senate. I would move you Sir, that the Joint Session do 99 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day now arise?" May 11, 1988
"The President of the Senate has moved that the Joint Session do now arise. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', all those opposed, signify by saying 'nay'. The 'ayes' have it and the Joint Session will now arise. I wish to thank all of those who have traveled to Springfield today, to join with us in the Ukrainian Memorial Celebration. We were most pleased to have you here at the Capitol Building. And we're most pleased to have joined with you in this celebration, and I'm most pleased to tell you that we feel very strongly in the cause that you are pursuing and advocating. So thank you very much."
"Representative Breslin, in the Chair."
"Representative Braun, in the Chair. The House will come to order. The Members will be in their seats. On the order of State and Local Government, age 11 of the House Calendar, appears House Bill 3104. The Chair recognizes Representative Breslin. Mr. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3104, a Bill for an Act for state collection of certain locally imposed taxes, Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1, was adopted in Committee.
"Any Floor Amendments? Any Motions filed?"
"No Motions, no Floor Amendments."
"Third Reading. On page 16 of the Calendar on the order of Second Reading, appears House Bill 3354, Representative Breslin. Mr. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3354, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code, Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"No Floor Amendments."
"Third Reading. On page..." 100 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day
"Speaker."
"Lady from LaSalle." May 11, 1988
"Mr. Speaker, and Mr. Clerk, I filed an Amendment on this Bill yesterday. Should be amendment... floor."
"The Clerk will inquire about the status of your Amendment. House Bill 38..3354, will be returned to the order of Second Reading for purposes of an Amendment. And on that Amendment the Chair recognizes..."
"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Breslin."
"Thank you, Mr..."
"Lady from LaSalle."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen. Amendment #1 has been recommended by the Department of Transportation, to make this Bill apply to as few people as possible. They believe that with this Amendment and with a restriction that the driver have a record of that is... that is exemplary in its field, that the Bill will have a better chance of passage and will probably be better for ...for transportation law in Illinois. I therefore ask that Amendment #1 be adopted."
"The Lady has moved the adoption of Floor Amendment #1. On that, is there any discussion? All in favor say 'aye', opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair..we tried to..the Chair recognizes Representative McCracken."
"I was just going to ask. Have you heard from the Federal Government, Representative, if this jeopardizes the money, or do we have an answer?
"No, the Department of Transportation does not have an answer yet, but they have indicated that with this Amendment they will use it to argue with the federal government, that it shouldn't jeopardize the federal money. 101 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day But DOT said that had any answer on McCracken: May 11, 1988 they would get back to me as soon as they that question at all." "Can we give this a chance before we call it for Third Reading? I know you don't want to take it out of the concerned about finding out at some point in the process that this is not going to jeopardize the funds. record indefinitely, but you know, we are
"Surely." Frankly...."
"I think that's the only objection that's left."
"Surely, and I told that to the committee as well."
"Okay, thank you."
"Is there further discussion? There being none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #1 be adopted?' All in favor say 'aye', opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it, and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?"
"No Further Amendments."
"Third Reading. On page 24 of the Calendar, appears House Bill 3870, Representative Breslin. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3870, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Municipal Code. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Saltsman, Hartke and Leverenz."
"The Gentleman from Peoria. Is the Gentleman from Peoria in the chamber? Representative Representative Saltzman on Amendment #1." Saltsman: Saltzman. "Yes, what this Amendment does, it puts a restriction on the tax increment finance districts on an amount of money that can be returned to that municipality year on the return on the sales tax." for one 102 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"Is there any discussion? Gentleman from McHenry, Representative Klemm."
"Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"
"He indicates he will."
"Alright. Amendment #1, I think, Representative Saltsman, what basically does it do again?"
"Amendment #1 puts a limitation on the amount of sales tax that could be returned to a tax increment financing district. It puts a limitation on the amount. We had one municipality that got an 80% increase in its return last year and this means that it will not be over 50%."
"Then how does that change the existing law. What does it do? What does it allow now, 100%?"
"Whatever the return would be for what was collected in that tax increment financing district."
"So, your cutting it in half, to limit it to 50%?"
"Yes, most ...most of the tax increment financing districts weren't even close to that, Representative."
"What's the reason why you want to codify this and make it law?"
"Because there has been a couple of municipalities that included their whole city, and they included larger districts than what we could turn... abided in an area... of the urban area that needed to be redeveloped and they were getting much more money per population than other municipalities."
"So in other words, some districts or some municipalities were allowing greater than 50%?"
"Yes."
"And."
"They received it."
"And that was impact."
"In last years..." 103 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"That was impacting on somebody? Why are we interfering with the agreements that they wish to make in order to have these tax increment areas?"
"Because there were some things that spoiled legislation that was passed previously two years ago, and we think that this puts a restriction that makes it more fair for everyone that did not jump on the bandwagon and include their whole municipality in that district, and use just the areas that were... that were to be designated as TIFF districts."
"Alright, well thank you."
"Is there further discussion? The Chair recognizes the Lady from LaSalle, Representative Breslin."
"Yes, Madam Speaker, there's been a request from our side of the aisle that we take the Bill out of the record so that they can read the Amendments, if we could get back to it later if that's okay with Representative Saltsman, I'd appreciate it."
"The Bill will be taken from the record. On page 37 of the Calendar, appears House Bill 3871, Representative Breslin. Mr. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3871, a Bill for an Act to amend the Civil Administrative Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"That will be out of the record. On page 6 of the Calendar, appears House Bill 3873, Representative Breslin. Mr. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3873, a Bill for an Act to amend the Hospital Licensing Act, Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1, was adopted in committee."
"Any Motions filed?"
"No Motions filed."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"No Floor Amendments?" 104 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"Third Reading. The Lady from LaSalle, Representative Breslin in the Chair."
"Ladies and Gentlemen, we are going to proceed now to Third Reading, on all those Bills that are in the Special Order of Business under State and Local Government. The first Bill. The first Bill appears on page 34 of your Calendar, House Bill 2285, Representative Wyvetter Younge. Clerk, read the Bill. Third Reading."
"House Bill 2285.."
"Out of the record. On page 31, appears House Bill 2293, Representative Giglio. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 2293, a Bill for an Act in relation to Community Currency Exchanges. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Giglio."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 2293 amends the Currency Exchange Act that requires that the currency exchange operators place the cash they receive from customers purchasing money orders in the special trust fund, and prohibit the currency exchange operators from converting such money order funds to, or for its own use. I guess what happened, a financial institution found that a lot of these currency exchange people were using that money, and someone must have ran short or something, and that's how the Bill came about. I would ask your favorable support, if not, if there are any questions, I'd be happy to answer them."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 2293, and on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 2293 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 110 voting 'aye', none voting 105 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 'no' and two voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitution Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 34 appears House Bill 2922, Representative Martinez. Representative Martinez. Out of the record. On page 34 appears House Bill 2993, Representative Brunsvold. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 2993, a Bill for an Act to Amend the Aledo Civic Center Law. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Brunsvold."
"Madam Speaker, I'd like leave of the House to return this Bill to Second Reading for an Amendment."
"The Gentleman asks leave to return this Bill to the order of Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment. Are there any objections? Hearing none, the Gentleman has leave, the Bill is on Second. Are there any Amendments filed Mr. Clerk?"
"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Brunsvold."
"Representative Brunsvold."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. Amendment #1 was requested by committee. Representative Klemm and Representative Matijevich, to clear up the language regarding the civic center authority in Aledo. The Amendment would simply strike the provisions saying, the city of Aledo and leave in Mercer Township. And that technical change was requested by committee and I ask for its adoption."
"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill 2993. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #1 be adopted? All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no', in the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?" 106 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day
"No further Amendments." May 11, 1988
"Third Reading. Representative Brunsvold, now ask leave for immediate consideration of House Bill 2993, as amended. Are there any objections? Hearing no objections, with use of the Attendance Roll Call, the Gentleman has leave. Read the Bill on Third, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 2993, a Bill for an Act to amend Sections of the Aledo Civic Center Law. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Brunsvold."
"Thank you, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The Bill now as amended, would simply state Mercer Township for the Aledo Civic Center Authority instead of the City of Aledo. This was requested by city officials and the township people involved, and it's been cleared on all areas there with the local officials. And I ask for the passage of House Bill 2993."
"The Gentleman has asked for the pass ...move for the passage of House Bill 2993. Is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."
"Just a question about the impact on the local residents. Will this increase an area that is taxed, to support the authority? I mean, does it have a debt or tax implication?"
"Well, this would increase the authority very slightly geographically, Representative. It was requested because of the appointment situation. Adds some key individual...a key individual that would request to be on the Civic Center Authority and this expands it very very slightly. It was not meant to increase to change much. It does just a little bit, but not of any concern really."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 22..2993 107 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 pass? All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 107 voting 'aye', one voting 'no' and 1 voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitution Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 34, appears House Bill 3124, Representative Ewing. Representative Ewing. Out of the record. On page 34, appears House Bill 3222, Representative Tate. Representative Tate. Out of the record. On page 35, appears House Bill 3275, Representative Weaver. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3275, a Bill for an Act to amend the Humane Care for Animals Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Weaver."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is the Bill that we passed out last year by more than 100 votes. It simply makes it illegal for games of chance and carnivals and county fairs to use rabbits, baby ducks and baby chicks as prizes in games of chance because of inhumane treatment. I would be willing to answer any questions and appreciate your vote."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3275, and on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."
"What did you say?"
"Representative Weaver."
"It's a very simple Bill. As a matter of fact it's a lot cleaner than it was last year, because some of the Senators were afraid that it would restrict them from giving away horses as prizes in lottery drawings. This one simply speaks very specifically to rabbits, ducks and chicks. That's all." 108 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day
"And, so then another question. problem in the Senate last year?"
"Yes, Sir it did." May 11, 1988
This Bill had a Cullerton: "And that was because it applied to horses?"
"Well they, they thought that it might apply to horses. As much as I tried to assure them they apparently still held that belief and it was killed in committee."
"So the concern is, that if someone at a county fair plays a game of chance, and they're awarded a rabbit, a duck or a baby chick that they might take it home and not provide for the rabbit, duck or baby chick in a humane fashion."
"Well, even before it got home, there were several instances where we had the animals not being given food or water at the fair and once they were won by a child, if the family wanted to stay at the fair, about the only thing that they could do with that animal was to put it in the car. We had several cases on the days where it was 90 degrees plus, you had a baby animal in the trunk of the car, and obviously it didn't last very long. So, this is our effort to try and make for a little more humane treatment of the small animals."
"Now do they sell these animals at the county fairs?"
"Excuse me."
"Do they sell animals at county fairs?"
"Yes they do."
"But that's a different circumstance, because the purchaser is more inclined to be humane towards the animals?"
"Well in..in most of those cases the purchaser goes to the county fair with the idea that he is going to buy...he or she is going to buy an animal, and they are prepared to take care of that animal. In this case most of the people 109 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE who win the animals are not prepared for it."
"Fine, thank you very much."
"The Gentleman from McLean, Ropp." May 11, 1988
Representative Ropp: "Thank you, Madam Speaker, would the Sponsor yield?"
"He will."
"Representative, by this Bill now you can, you can give away fish and let them die in route home."
"Well, if..if you wish to Sponsor a Bill to prohibit using fish as prizes, I'll be glad to help you on it Representative Ropp, but this is, I was asked by a specific group of individuals to..to work with the rabbits and these other small animals."
"Then for clarification, I think we had a problem last year about buying chances for animals. This has nothing to do with that, that you are SO clearly identifying, just rabbits, ducks and chicks that you think we have really solved the problem. Isn't that clear?"
"That's clear. All this does, is add rabbits to the current statutes that prohibit the use of chicks and ducks as prizes in games of chance. Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Mulcahey."
"Oh, I think he just answered the question, Madam Speaker. This does not count dogs like Ducks Unlimited, give dogs away at their annual meetings for prizes."
"No Sir, it does not. And that's what I think got me in a little trouble in the Senate last year, was we tried to amend it so many times to make allowances for other types of animals, that we got in trouble. So what I did was simply insert rabbits in the law."
"It could be a hairy situation before it's over."
"The Gentleman from St.Clair, Representative 110 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day Stephens." May 11, 1988
"Well, Madam Speaker, first of all to correct the record, it's the Gentleman from Madison County now. I've moved to Troy, Illinois, so I live in Madison County and I'd like to make that correction. I'd also like to invite Representative Cullerton to the Madison County Fair, so that he can get a better flavor for the need for Bills like this. It's being held in Highland, in my District in August. Thank you."
"Is there any further discussion? Hearing none the question is, 'Shall House Bill 3275 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 108 voting 'aye', 2 voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 35, appears House Bill 3297, Representative Steczo. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3297, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to require prompt payments by the State of Illinois. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Steczo."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. House Bill 3297 addresses two different problems. One is the Local Government Prompt Pay Act. The other is the State Prompt Pay Act. There are Amendments in this legislation regarding the Local Government Prompt Pay Act that were a result of negotiations between some local government entities and some suppliers and vendors. And those agreements have been ..have been incorporated into the Bill as Amendment #1. Amendment #2 is similar to a Bill that this House passed last year, regarding prompt pay, 111 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 regarding a different schedule for perishable goods, and a few other things. That Bill was vetoed by the Governor, due to some..some questions and some objections by the Illinois Department of Public Aid. In discussions that we've had over the last couple weeks with the Department of Public Aid, we have come to an agreement which is embodied in Amendment #2, and with that agreement, all State Agencies have dropped opposition to those portions of House Bill 3297. So, pretty much, Madam Speaker, it's an agreed Bill, I would appreciate the support of the House and would answer any questions."
"The Gentleman has moved for passage of House Bill 3297, and on that question the Gentleman from McHenry, Representative Klemm."
"Thank you Madam Speaker. I stand in support of the Bill. I think it's been a long time in coming, that we address some of the Prompt Payment Acts that we're supposedly to enforce, and I commend Representative Steczo for his persistence in it. And I join with him as a Sponsor of the Bill, and I would encourage everybody to support this for the small business people in Illinois. Thank you."
"The Gentlemen from Coles, Representative Weaver."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Representative, I just got a couple of quick questions to clarify things in my mind. On the disapproval portion of the Bill, if a vendor submits a Bill and it's not correct, and he does not take care of the correction within four days, does the time limit kick in from that point at which he submits the corrected Bill?"
"You're talking about perishable goods Representative Weaver?" 112 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day
"Yes, Sir. Steczo: May 11, 1988 On page 2 of the Bill, it indicates that any corrected within four days shall not result in such error the vendor being paid late. Am I to assume then, that if it is corrected after four days, then does the time...does the thirty day time limit kick in at that point when the Bill is resubmitted, or is the time limit simply forgotten about entirely?" or "Representative Weaver, the provision indicates, and the state agencies have agreed to this language, that they would be notified...they would notify the vendor by written notice or what have you within fifteen calendar days after the receipt of a bill or invoice for such perishable goods, if the bill or invoice is in error improperly submitted or for any other reason incorrect. Any such error impropriety corrected by the vendor within four calendar days, so shall not result in the vendor being paid late. What that means is that the vendor would have a four day window to submit the information back to the agency. Then the remainder of the provisions would play out and the interest could be granted from the...from the...from the time of the...from the time originally put forth. what we're saying is that after four days, if the vendor took fifteen days or sixteen days or eighteen days to correct the...the impropriety or the mistake or the error then that vendor could not come back and could not say 'Now you owe me money' although it was me that created the problem by not paying you or by providing the correct information." not
"But if the vendor takes five days to submit the changes, is it then thirty days after the fifth day when that change is submitted that the bill must be paid?"
"That's correct. Then there would be an approval by these agencies and then the normal time limits would kick 113 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 in. It would be in the vendor's best interests, of course, to...to comply. I should also indicate that under another provision of this Bill, the provisions of the, I should say the ability to collect the interest and all the provisions, thereto, would be placed on the voucher that that vendor would get, SO they would know up front what the time constraints, time limitations are."
"Thank you."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Parcells."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Thank you. There was so much noise I didn't hear. Did you say the Department of Public Aid no longer has a problem with this?"
"That's correct."
"I mean mental health."
"The Department of Mental Health signed off last year. The Department of Public Aid had a provision which allowed the clock to start ticking earlier than what was originally called for in the Bill. This...the Amendment takes away that provision and has the clock start ticking what it does right now. So they were against the clock starting to tick earlier."
"It appeared though that Amendment #2 put it back in its original form? Am I misreading that?"
"That's correct. It did. To answer objections from the Department of Public Aid. The original form of the law or the original form of the Act is proposed."
"Thank you."
"Is there any further questions? Hearing none, Representative Steczo to close."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I indicated this legislation has been agreed to and I would...I would 114 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day appreciate an affirmative vote." May 11, 1988
"The question is 'Shall House Bill 3297 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 108 voting 'aye', 3 voting 'no' and 2 voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 35 appears House Bill 3321, Representative Hannig. Representative Hannig. Out of the record. On page 35 appears House Bill 3339, Representative Steczo. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3339, a Bill for an Act to the amend the County Officials Compensation Act. ct. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Steczo."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. House Bill 3339 is an Act that this General Assembly has heard before. Provides that elected county recorders in counties with a population between 60,000 and 2,000,000 shall receive an additional annual award of $3,500.00 for additional duties relating to the Department of Revenue. And it provides, Madam Speaker, that there would be approximately 20 counties or 21...I'm sorry 21 counties that would be affected. Multiple recorders and assessors would not receive this stipend. And I would answer any questions that the General Assembly would have, related to this question."
"The Gentleman has moved that the House pass House Bill 3339. And on that question, the Gentleman from Champaign, Representative Johnson."
"Are you saying by this Bill, Representative Steczo, that the office receives an additional $3,500.00 in 115 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 expenses, or the recorder him or herself gets the specific money for additional income?"
"As we have done, Representative Johnson, in other cases where we have provided stipends to county officials, it's the county official who oversees the office and has the responsibility for the functioning of the office, who would be receiving this stipend."
"There are...there are additional duties required by this...by the Department of Revenue? Is that right?"
"That is correct."
"Is...is there a requirement in this Bill that the recorder of deeds, because of these additional duties, has to work an extra number of hours a week or an extra number of hours a day? Do they have to punch in a time clock to demonstrate that they're actually putting in extra hours for these extra duties?"
"Notwithstanding, Representative, the number of hours that are put in. The fact is, is that the state over the years, has made requirements upon these individuals as they have with other county officials and I don't think we have provided that the other county officials are...are clocked to determine how many hours. The fact is, is that there has to be a compliance."
"Well, the point is, you're paying them an additional $3,500.00 a year. That presumes that they're not working full time now, or that if they're working full time now, that they have to work. That's assuming their average salary is $30,000.00 that they have to work an additional 10 percent. Simply putting more...somebody has extra duties doesn't mean they deserve a pay raise. They have extra duties that means they either have spare time that they're not spending now, or if they're using up all the amount of time they have now, it simply means that...that 116 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 they're apparently spending 10 percent more time in putting in weekends or nights or whatever. And I don't think that's the case. I think the Members of the General Assembly ought to look at this...this Bill very carefully and see what we're doing here. In a time when we haven't even begun to resolve questions of revenue, resolve questions of what we're doing with money in terms of education and school children and so forth, this is a Bill, with all due respect to the Sponsor, who is a very very good friend of mine, and I'm sure very well intended this, it's a very bad idea. All we're doing, is in effect, taking out a group of individuals who are already adequately paid. Some would argue more than adequately paid. And giving them a $3,500.00 a year pay raise. That's all it is. We're going to give them a $3,500.00 a year more, each one of these individuals who's covered under this Bill, without requiring that they do one wit more of work. They spend anymore time or anything else. We have a lot of extra responsibilities that come in here as Members of the General Assembly because people put in, like I do and like we all do, too many Bills, so that's an extra...extra amount of responsibility we have. I don't think anybody proposes that we ought to have a pay raise, because we put in 6,000 Bills a year. The sheriff, I'm sure, every year has an additional responsibility because of the laws we pass in the criminal justice system. If this were a Bill that simply allocated $3,500.00 more for the cost of operation of the recorder of deeds' office, maybe so, maybe in that case, because of additional paper costs and personnel costs and so forth. But all this is, is a flat out pay raise for people who aren't expected to work one more hour or spend one more dime in terms of their costs of their operation. I think it's a bad idea. It was 117 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 a terrible precedent when we did it for any other county officer, and simply because we made a ridiculous mistake before, we shouldn't compound the felony by passing this stupid Bill."
"The Gentleman from Lake, Representative Peterson."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Representative Steczo, is there anything in the legislation that would prohibit the county from saying this is part of your increase in salary when they set the salary for four years? I know in my county, in Lake, they have used that and said 'Well we were going to pay an X amount, and we're going to include the stipend' if it's the county clerk or the other people. Is there anything that would preclude the counties from continuing to do that?"
"Representative Peterson, in this Bill no. But I would call your attention to House Bill 1979, which I have sponsored, which takes care of that problem specifically. It says that they cannot regard that as salary."
"One last question, Representative. What...what kind of costs are we looking at on this piece of legislation?"
"Total of about $80,000.00."
"Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Madison, Representative Stephens."
"Alright, I'm proud of my new county. Would the Gentleman yield for a question?"
"He will."
"Representative Steczo, this money goes to the recorder for his discretion at the distribution of that money? Is that right?"
"The money...the stipend is paid to the recorder." 118 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988
"Paid to the recorder in the form of...payroll?"
"To pay to the recorder as a stipend."
"Not to the office it's to the individual?"
"To the individual, as we do with other county officials."
"Okay, are they all paid for by stipend now? From..."
"There are a few that are paid by stipend."
"And the recorder is one?"
"Pardon."
"Are they all paid the same amount?"
"Yes."
"And they can be paid no more by their local county?"
"They get paid by their local county. They get paid...many,... minimum salary by their local county. Sure."
"If the local county wanted to give them a $3,500.00 raise, could they do that this year?"
"It depends on the minimums and maximums we have in some of the statutes. But, I presume, that in the cases where they could, they could."
"...2,000,000 could they?"
"If they're not at the maximum they could."
"Well I would suggest that it might be more appropriate for the local counties, Madam Speaker, to take this responsibility for awarding their local recorder or any other elected official, if they so choose to give money to, rather than to come to the General Assembly where we are faced with not enough money for education, not enough money to pay Medicaid bills, not enough money to pay hospitals and other providers of medical services, where people are asking us to raise taxes where we already have a distribution problem. We're bringing in enough revenue to cover the problems of Illinois, it's just that we have a 119 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 spending problem here and this is one small example albeit a small $80,000.00 example of misplaced spending priorities. We can't continue to think along the lines that it dosen't matter where and how we spend money, because there's always another source of revenue. We have to say no at very specific times. We have to say no in order to set our spending priorities, so that we have money for education, for hospitals, for the poor and the indigent, the mentally ill. We can't continue this policy. I urge a 'no' vote."
"Representative Steczo to close." "Thank you, Madam Speaker. Members of the House. The reason why it's unfair to ask the county to provide these additional dollars in the forms of pay increases, is because the recorders are here as other county officials have been to indicate to the General Assembly you impose these duties upon us. You are the ones who make us responsible for providing these services that are actually state services. Therefore, since we have those responsibilities as we do with other county officials, it is only appropriate that we receive some remuneration for those services. This is a Bill I would...I would anticipate, Madam Speaker, that because it did pass the General Assembly last year and monies were not available. And the Governor vetoed the Bill and rightfully so. As we don't know what's going to happen a week from now or a month from now or a day from now, I would expect that if this Bill went to the Governor and the appropriate dollars were not available that he would veto it again. And that would only be the right thing to do. However, however, should circumstances change and we don't know what's going to happen, the question is, 'Shall we...if revenues are available, provide these county officials in just twenty 120 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 counties...twenty-one counties a meager sum for doing the work that the state has mandated them to do?' I suggest we should and would appreciate an affirmative vote."
"The question is 'Shall House Bill 3339 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? This is final passage. Sixty votes are required for passage. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 36 voting 'aye', 69 voting 'no' and 5 voting 'present'. And the Bill fails. On page 35 of your Calendar appears House Bill 3347, Representative Ewing. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3347, a Bill for an Act to amend the Local Government Prompt Payment Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Ewing."
"Madam Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This is a local government Bill, which says to the State of Illinois, you require us to advance payments for you and then when we send the ticket down here to Springfield sometimes you make us wait a long time. In this Bill merely says that if the local government makes the payment based on a grant or whatever from the State Government and we don't pay, then they're going to pick up the interest cost that local government incurs. I think it's good government. I think it's fair government, and I would ask for your approval of this Bill."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3347. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."
"Yes, would the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Representative Ewing, is there a mechanism whereby 121 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day the state can Ewing: claim?" May 11, 1988 evaluate or dispute the local government's "Madam Speaker, he's going to have to repeat that, because I couldn't ... I couldn't understand what his question was."
"Representative Cullerton, please repeat your question."
"Well, as I understand the Bill, the local government official certifies to the state that such...a certain amount of funds are necessary to be paid. Is that correct?"
"That's correct."
"Is there a mechanism whereby the state official could dispute or evaluate the local government's claim?"
"I don't believe there is currently in the law. I don't think that it necessarily means they can't dispute it, but it doesn't set that out in the law."
"Do you think that there's another Section of the statute might provide for that."
"I couldn't tell you, Representative, whether there is or not."
"Okay, thank you."
"Any further discussion? Representative Ewing to close."
Hearing none. Ewing: "Madam Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. As I said in explaining this Bill, it's a simple concept. We may even need to refine this Bill. It will have to go to the Senate for their consideration. But the point is, that we shouldn't ask local government to expend pay...to expend payment to advance money, and then when we don't keep up our end of the bargain, not pay the cost of that money to those local governments who are also are very hard pressed to meet their demands. I think this is good government, a good local government Bill, and I would ask for your 122 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day support." May 11, 1988
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3347 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 112 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 35 appears House Bill 3355, Representative Steczo. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3355, a Bill for an Act to amend the Township Law. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Steczo."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I hope this will be a green Christmas for me on the House Bill 3355. House Bill 3355, Madam Speaker, Members of the House, is a Bill to allow townships to contract with municipalities or counties for mosquito abatement purposes by front door referendum. I...I reiterate by front door referendum. This Bill was originally proposed at .025 percent. By an Amendment of Representative Deuchler, it was increased to .075 percent. Evidently there are many townships that would like to provide these services. There are problems in some areas and we feel that by allotting...allowing the voters to be able to...to provide for these purposes, is a perfectly legitimate thing to do. And would appreciate an affirmative vote."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3355. On that question, is there any discussion? The Lady from Cook, Representative Pullen."
"I'd like to ask the Sponsor a question please? Does this Bill have any effectiveness in Cook County?"
"Representative Pullen, I couldn't hear you. Could you 123 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 repeat that for me, please?"
"Is this Bill effective in Cook County?"
"In the townships of Cook County, yes. My...Representative Pullen, my understanding is yes, not in Chicago, but in the suburban townships."
"Would this be a service over and above the mosquito abatement district in suburban Cook County?"
"Well, it...they could contract with mosquito abatement if the voters so chose."
"But this would give the voters of the township an opportunity to beef up their protection if they don't think the mosquito abatement district is doing enough?"
"That's correct."
"That's fine, thank you."
"The question is 'Shall House Bill 3355 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Representative Jim Marzuki, former Representative is back. And Representative Ben Polk was back over here, just a minute ago, on the Republican side of the aisle. Good to see you fellas. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 108 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and 2 voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 35 appears House Bill 3378, Representative Saltsman. Representative Saltsman. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3378, a Bill for an Act to amend the Wages of Employees of Public Works Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Saltsman. Out of the record. On page 35 appears House Bill 3427, Representative Sieben. Do you wish the Bill called, Sir? Representative Sieben. Clerk read the Bill." 124 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"House Bill 3427, a Bill for an Act to amend the Hospital District Law. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Sieben."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3427 amends the Hospital District Law, to provide that a minimum population of a district to be created under the Act shall be 10,000, if the district concludes at least six contiguous townships within a county or adjoining counties, or includes at least one entire county. This Bill is at the request of the Savanna Hospital District that I represent. They're just having difficulty maintaining their hospital, because of a high number of public aid patients they serve there. And they feel it's necessary to create this Hospital District in order to maintain their hospital. And under current statutes they can't do that, because of the population requirements in the statute. And I would ask for a yes vote on 3427."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3427. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Cullerton."
"Yes, would the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Does this have the effect of creating more Hospital Districts?"
"Yes, this would allow the Savanna Hospital to put on the ballot this..."
"Does this affect one...does this...does this Bill, is it intended to affect one district?"
"That's correct."
"In your district?"
"Yes."
"What's the name of it?" 125 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988
"Savanna."
"Savanna? And these districts are authorized to tax? Is that correct?"
"Yes, they would be authorized if the voters pass a referendum this fall to create the district."
"I see."
"Under the current statutes, because of the size and the geography of this part of the state, we can't even take it to referendum."
"Thank you. Thank you."
"Is there any further discussion? Hearing none. The question is... Oh, the Lady from DuPage, Representative Cowlishaw. On the question."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"Representative Sieben, several years ago we passed some legislation here that enabled existing hospital districts to disband. And I have a hospital in my district that is now in the process of doing that. Does this Bill in any way affect those hospital districts in this state that may now or in the future be in the process of disbanding?"
"No it does not."
"Thank you."
"Any further discussion? Hearing none. The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3427 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 111...112 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Is that your first Bill, Representative Sieben? 126 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Not so. On page 36 appears House Bill 3464, Representative Bowman. Representative Bowman. Do you wish this Bill called? Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3464, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act concerning the Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Bowman."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. When this Assembly created the Mathematics and Science Academy three years ago in a school reform legislation, several problems were created along with it. Among them the competition for scarce resources in the school budget for gifted education, the coordination of the policies and programs of this academy with other policies and programs within the spectrum of education services of this state. Just to name two. Now what this Bill seeks to do is to transfer the budget of the Mathematics and Science Academy from the State Board of 'Ed' to the Board of Higher Education. I believe that this move will present the Mathematics and Science Academy's budget in a more realistic light, where should competition rise it will be with institutions of higher education. And the Board of the State... Board of Higher Education is set up and designed to review budgets. They review budgets of other educational institutions and this institution deserves a review...a thorough review, just like any other institution. So I think that this move is a good one, it is supported by the Math-Science Academy and also supported by many of the critics of the academy. And so I believe that this is a Bill in which both sides can get together and I am pleased to offer to you for your consideration and move its passage."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of 127 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day House Bill 3464. Representative Pullen." May 11, 1988 And on that question, the Lady from Cook,
"I would like to ask the Sponsor a question or two, please?"
"Proceed."
"To whom does the Math and Science Academy now submit its budget?"
"To the State Board of Education."
"And why would we not continue to have them submit it to the State Board of Education?"
"Well the Bill says that it shall not be continued that way. You mean why should we not do that or..." "That's what I'm asking, yes." Pullen:
"Okay. The reason is that the State Board of Education does not really review the budget. Reflect for a moment with me on the Budget Bills that the State Board submits to us. All of the programs outside of this one are either open-ended, that is to say, whatever we want to appropriate for them, or they're formula driven. That is, either special education or the school aid formula or public transfer...or pupil transportation or the like. In other words, the State Board of Education is not set up to do budget review in the same way the Bureau of the Budget is, or in the same way that the Board of Higher Education is. I think that the Board of Higher Education will give this the same kind of thorough going review that it gives the University of Illinois, or that it gives the Board of Regents, or Board of Governors System. That's why I'm making this proposal."
"Does the State Board of Education currently have authority to review any budgets that they are submitting to Bowman: us?" "Well, I think they have pretty broad authority and I 128 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 think if they wanted to they could. I believe the...they have elected not to do so, because they...their budget office really isn't set up to do that and that's why I offered this Bill."
"So what you're saying is that we need to shift this secondary education facility to the Board of Higher Education for purpose of having its budget prereviewed, because the State Board of Education currently is not doing its job in reviewing the budget of this academy when it comes through them?"
"Well, Representative Pullen, I would not be so harsh as to say they're not doing their job. There...the way they're set up is to review programs that are basically usually formula driven and this is a virtually a unique arrangement and really much more suited to the kind of system 'BHE' has. One point I would like to mention, though, you said this is a secondary institution, well that's true up to a point, but don't forget that the last year of education at the Math - Science Academy is equivalent to the first year in college. And most of these students are expected to go directly into the sophomore year of college. Also the faculty at this Math - Science Academy are already members of the State University Retirement System. That happened when we set them up in the first place. So they really are a hybrid, and I think they could logically go either place. I think the best place is 'BHE'."
"I'm not objecting to your Bill, I'm just trying to delve into what's wrong with the current system and apparently it's that the State Board of Education does not do any review even though that would be a beneficial thing to have done, so we need to put it in a place where we can expect review to happen, instead of in a place where it is not 129 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day happening. Thank you."
"The Lady from Champaign, Satterthwaite." May 11, 1988
Representative Satterthwaite: "Madam Speaker and Members of the House, I rise in opposition to this Bill. Not that I am against the purpose that the Sponsor wants to accomplish in reviewing the budget of the Math - Science Academy. My concern is that as we look at budgets in the future, the added amount of money included in higher education budgets, because of this added responsibility to them, will give us a distorted view of the funds that are available to higher education. Unfortunately, by the time we get to the...the appropriations process, much of what we do is look at the bottom line rather than looking at the integral parts of a budget. And so, I am concerned that this addition to the higher education budget will in fact have an adverse impact on higher education as a whole, because in future years this additional amount of money will be in the higher education realm, and will be looked upon by this Body and the chamber across the rotunda, as if there were additional funds going to higher education when in fact there will not be. And so I would simply ask you to realize that if you are supporting this legislation, what will happen is that it will appear to increase higher education's budget while at the same time there is no real additional money for higher education."
"The Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield please?"
"He will."
"Representative Bowman, is it not true now that under this particular Bill, we will in effect still retain the 130 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 curriculum administration of the Math - Science Academy under the State Board, and this would then allow an additional board, which is now the Board of Higher Education to deal with the oversight of the funding of those curriculum programs and et cetera?"
"You're absolutely correct, Representative Ropp."
"Okay, so really what we have here is a institution that as some who have already indicated, of exceptional students, and really giving them double coverage for guidance and direction in their educational career. I don't see that this is any major problem and I, too, come from a college district, as Representative Satterthwaite does, but I think that the Legislature will be smart enough to see that this is a particular unique set of funds even though they may come under the Board of Higher Education's budget. And I think it's a proper way to go. It certainly gives more stability, more balance and more opportunity to oversee the adequate funding of a very important school that we have in the State of Illinois, and I support the Bill."
"Representative Bowman to close."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I think all the essential points have been raised in the debate. I would only add that Math - Science Academy supports this Bill. The State Board of Education and the Board of Higher Education are neutral on the Bill. So, I believe this is something that we owe to the kids of the Math - Science Academy. I urge an 'aye' vote."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3464 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Representative...thank you. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 102 voting 'aye', 9 voting 'no' and 1 voting 'present'. This Bill 131 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 36 appears House Bill 3550. Representative Petka. Representative Petka. Out of the record. On page 36 appears House Bill 3636. Representative Cowlishaw. Representative Cowlishaw, do you wish to call this Bill? Out of the record. On page 36 appears House Bill 3649. Representative Steczo. Representative Steczo. Out of the record. On page 36 appears House Bill 3679. Representative Kulas. Representative Kulas. On page 36 appears House Bill 3680. Representative Kulas. Out of the record, for both. On page 36 appears House Bill 3730. Representative Mays. Representative Mays. Out of the record. On page 36 appears House Bill 3735. Representative Ewing. Representative Ewing. Out of the record. Representative Steczo has returned to the chamber. We'll go back to his Bill on page 36, House Bill 3649. Mr. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3649, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Municipal Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Steczo."
"Thank you Madam Speaker. I would ask leave of the House to bring House Bill 3649 back to the order of Second Reading for the purpose of ...an Amendment please?"
"The Gentleman asks leave to return this Bill to the order of Second Reading for an Amendment. Is there any objection? Hearing none, the Gentleman has leave by use of the Attendance Roll Call. The Bill is on Second. Are there any Amendments filed Mr. Clerk?"
"Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Klemm."
"Representative Klemm."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amendment #2 gives the 132 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 builders the ability to recapture costs for installation of roadways, signalization and other traffic related improvements, to the extent that such roadways and improvements relating to the properties beyond the properties being developed. In preannexation agreements, when a developer has to put in sewers, water, roads they pay for the full share, and then for the infrastructure as far as the sewers and waters, the municipalities allow future developers that would share in the benefits, to repay that original developer. These Amendments add the roadways to be the same status and I would ask...answer any questions and I ask for your favorable vote."
"The Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 3649. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. The Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Representative Steczo now asks leave for immediate consideration of House Bill 3649 as amended. Is there any objection? Hearing none, the Bill shall be read a third time by leave of the Attendance Roll Call."
"House Bill 3649, a Bill for an Act concerning service of process for municipal ordinance violations and municipal jurisdiction over roads, streets, and highways. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Steczo."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. In addition to the language of the Amendment which Representative Klemm has just presented, House Bill 3649 133 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 was amended yesterday to provide that a state or county can turn over an abandoned highway or right of away it no longer wants responsibility for, to a municipality. In addition to that, the Bill originally provided for the allowance of services summons and ordinance violations by certified mail when no mail term is possible...when no jail term is possible, when the fine could not exceed $500.00. That present law currently is $200.00 and it just provides a...an up dating of the Act. I would ask for... I'd appreciate an affirmative vote, Madam Speaker."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3649. And on that question, the Gentleman from Macon, Representative Dunn."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. A question of the Sponsor. If a state or county turns a road or highway over to a municipality does the municipality have the option of accepting or rejecting or do they have to abide by whatever the state or county does?"
"Representative Steczo, to answer the question."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. The answer is that the option would be municipality."
"Thank you very much. Good Bill."
"The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. The original Bill creates the...or corrects an inconsistency in current law. Petty offences, which can be a...prosecuted under municipal ordinance, automatically by state law allow for fines up to $500.00. This coordinates the summons requirements with that fine, and that portion of the Bill is also good."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3649 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who 134 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 102nd Legislative Day wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 112 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Representative Cowlishaw, is now able to call House Bill 3636. It appears on page 36 on your Calendar. Most appropriately. Would you read the Bill Mr. Clerk?"
"House Bill 3636, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Library System Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Cowlishaw."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3636 as amended, provides a 4.2 percent increase in the state grants to library systems throughout the state. An identical Bill, which was known as House Bill 1123, was passed last Session by a vote of 113 to 4 in the House, 59 to 0 in the Senate. The Bill was vetoed by the Governor due to budget constraints. That indeed may happen with this Bill again this time, but the fact is that we cannot provide any increase in the grants to library systems unless we have authorization in the law to do that. This is all that that Bill does. I would point out to you that library systems throughout this state have received increases in the grants from the state in 1985, 5 percent; in 1986, 8 percent; in 1987, 5 percent; last year no increase whatsoever. If this Bill passes, and if there are funds available, the increase for this year would be 4.2 percent. Library systems have no taxing power. They are in need of these funds. And I move for adoption of House Bill 3636 as amended."
"The Lady has moved for the passage of House Bill 3636. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Young."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?" 135 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"She indicates she will."
"Is it...was Amendment #2 adopted to this Bill?"
"No."
"Okay. What is the total cost of the Bill?"
"I'm sorry, Representative, I don't seem to have that information readily available. I can tell you the details of what the increases are if that would be of any help."
"I think the Assembly would like to know exactly how much this would cost, though. Or approximately how much this would cost, if you could dig it out. And while you're looking there's no tax increase in this Bill is there?"
"No Representative, there is not."
"And no authorization for a tax levy anyplace is there?"
"No, Sir. Well, library systems do not have any taxing power, Sir. And this, of course, does not attempt to give them any. I am sorry that I cannot provide an answer to your question. The only thing I can provide is the fact that with Amendment #1 adopted, and once again Amendment #2 was not adopted, ...the library system grants would be increased from $1.00, $1.233 per capita, to $1.3476 per capita and from $47.3537 per square mile to $49.727 per square mile. That is a 4.2 percent increase in the grants provided by this state to library systems."
"Representative can you tell me what the total amount of grants provided last year were? Then, maybe we can figure it out."
"I'm truly sorry, the Representative from the Secretary of State's Office is not readily available right now. Let me see if I can get someone from the Secretary of State's Office..."
"Thank you Representative. Because I'm not in opposition to the Bill, we just would like to know what we expect it to cost." 136 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"Very good, while you do that, let's go to Representative Klemm, from McHenry County. Representative Klemm."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I stand in support of the legislation. As we know, this is about a 4 percent...4.2 percent increase if, in fact, the state does have the monies to give to the libraries. So, it's somewhat permissive. If we don't do this we end up leaving libraries out in case there were some tax increases. They have no taxing authority, and therefore, this is the distribution that the state gives. I think it's an appropriate, reasonable increase, and I stand in support of the Bill. Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Adams, Representative Mays."
"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. As I understand this Bill, it is simply an authorization. We still have to appropriate the money, and that will be what drives it ultimately. So, I don't see anything wrong with this Bill, and I rise in support."
"The Gentleman from Winnebago, Representative Mulcahey."
"Question of the Sponsor, Madam Speaker. Representative Cowlishaw, how does this theory regarding this Bill differ from the one that Representative Steczo had a few minutes ago regarding stipends for county recorders?"
"They are two entirely different entities, I believe, Representative Mulcahey."
"Two different entities. But..."
"Yes. One is a county official, alright."
"Right."
"And that is someone who is elected to do a specific job, and has a specific office. This has...this Bill has 137 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 to do with state grants that are provided, not to public libraries, per say, but to library systems. Now I'm sure you're aware and certainly Representative Leverenz is, that library systems were created by the State of Illinois for those areas where there are large numbers of public libraries who wish to provide, together, for some rather sophisticated library services such as computerized services and so on, that no one library can afford on its own. So they form together a Library District, and that district then enables those libraries to provide better services. Most library systems, as I understand them Representative, do charge each of their member public libraries some kind of annual fee for the services they provide, but those fees never cover the costs that the library systems incur. Consequently, we as a state, partly because we authorized library systems in the first place, have provided grants to them to enable them to provide those services."
"Okay, well, I think it's all based on the roll of the dice again, regarding funding, and Terry had the same concept...the same concept in his Bill regarding stipends for county recorders. If the dough is there, fine, if it's not, we'll go some other way. And I think you're saying the same thing. So I'm going to vote for your Bill, but I just wanted to point that out."
"This is not a salary question. Library systems..."
"Representative Cowlishaw, are you ready to close?"
"Madam Speaker, I really feel that it's totally inappropriate to leave any debate with a question that is unanswered. And Representative Young has a question on this Bill, which...for which I simply do not presently have the correct information. Consequently, much as I believe 138 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 this Bill is important, I would ask to take it out of the record."
"Representative Young... Representative Homer do you have the answer to this question that we're waiting for? Representative Homer."
"Yes, the...it's like Jeopardy. The answer is about $1,000,000.00 annually. What is...yes...I'm sorry...what is, thank you...what is $1,000,000.00? What is $1,000,000.00?"
"Okay. Representative Cowlishaw are you satisfied with this answer and do you want to close, or would you like to take the Bill out of the record? It's up to you."
"I think that's an excellent answer, Madam Speaker. And since apparently the questions have been answered, I move for the passage of House Bill 3636, as amended."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3636 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 108 voting 'aye', 3 voting 'no' and 1 voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. And the state is not in jeopardy, yet. On page 36 appears House Bill 3735, Representative Ewing. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3735, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act concerning state's capital projects needs. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Ewing."
"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill requires that all state agencies submit an annual assessment of their current and of their long-term capital 139 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 projects needs to the legislative leaders, to the Economic and Fiscal Commission, and to the Capital Development Board. And then we're asking that the Economic and Fiscal Commission pass on that report to us here in the General Assembly. What currently happens is that the agencies submit their request to the Governor's Office, the Bureau of the Budget, and only those that are actually designated for approval or for funding are moved on in the Capitol Development Plan. This will give us, in this Legislative Body, a much better handle on what the agencies think we need in the way of capital projects."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3735. And on that question, the Gentleman from Lee, Representative Olson."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will. Oh, he indicates he won't."
"Representative Ewing, could you tell me who the Co-Chairmen are of the Economic and Fiscal Commission?"
"Representative Ewing."
"I know that one of them is Dawn Clark Netsch of the Senate."
"And who is the ranking House Member?'
"I'm not sure who the House Member is."
"Well if...if Representative Ewing, was a member of that commission in some capacity, then I would find myself in support of this Bill."
"Very good. The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3735 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 112 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having received 140 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 37 appears House Bill 3765, Representative McPike. Out of the record. On page 37, House Bill 3804, Representative Mays. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3804, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to mental health and developmental disabilities. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Mays."
"Yes, thank you very much. House Bill 3804 allows the Department of Mental Health to establish and maintain a trust fund at each facility, and allows the director of the facility to maintain this fund in a locally held account prior to disbursement. This is a Department of Mental Health Bill and I would urge its passage."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3804. And on that question, the Lady from Champaign, Representative Satterthwaite."
"Will the Sponsor yield for a question, please?"
"He will."
"Representative, what is the origin of the monies that would go into this trust fund? Are these funds provided by parents or other interested people that are set aside for the use of the patients, or how are the funds generated?"
"When the department has to make advanced payouts for their clients...for the recipients these are the trust funds that are charged to those accounts."
"Are these state dollars going into this trust fund or are these private dollars going into the trust fund?"
"May I pull this out of the record for a second, please?"
"Surely. Out of the record. On page 37 appears House Bill 3871. Out of the record. On page 37 appears 141 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 House Bill 3890, Representative Turner. Art Turner. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3890, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to create the Illinois Affordable Housing Program. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Turner."
"Madam Speaker. I just noticed...I thought this was another Bill. And looking around I see that there are not any bricklayers or carpenters here in the room. We better take this one out of the record for a little while."
"Out of the record. On page 37 appears House Bill 3910, Representative Braun. Would you like this Bill called on Third? Read the Bill Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3910, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act defining the powers and duties of local governmental agencies. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Braun."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This legislation applies to the checkoff for voluntary contributions to charitable organizations. It simply a...allows the State Comptroller to open up the checkoff to the United Fund. And I encourage your support for the legislation."
"The Lady from Cook has moved for the passage of House Bill 3910. And on that question, the Gentleman from Macon, Representative Dunn."
"Question to the Sponsor. I thought she said that this Bill opens this up to the United Fund. And as I read this statute, the United Fund is the only checkoff authorized now. What exactly does this Bill do?"
"It...I'm sorry Representative Dunn, you're exactly right. It opens it up to allow for qua...there are other organizations, other than the United Fund, presently 142 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 eligible under the checkoff. The legislation was passed a couple of years ago that opened it up, because previous to the...that Bill, it was only the United Fund. What this does is, allows the Comptroller to open up the fund so that other eligible groups, under the requirements of the statute that are already in place will apply...will be eligible for checkoff."
"Who now decides what organizations are appropriate to be eligible for checkoff?"
"I'm checking, Representative Dunn. ... Representative Dunn, it's my understanding that the...that under the terms of the...Bill as it was present...previously put together, the State Comptroller was not specifically authorized to make these determinations. And this simply puts him into all...into authorizes him to make the determinations. Right now the stats...the formula is statutory under current law...the formula is statutory, set by this General Assembly some two years ago...four years ago and this allows for...adds the State Comptroller all...to the...as Administrative Officer, if you will, in connection with the checkoff...eligibility determinations."
"Well, what the reason I asked the question is that, the existing law includes, if I read it correctly, I'm reading it in a hurry, but it seems to include all local governmental agencies. And I...I'm a big fan of Roland Burris in the Comptroller's Office, but I don't know that the Comptroller should be deciding what agencies each county, township, village or municipality wants to include in a solicitation of its employees all across the state. It seems to be what your Bill does."
"No Sir, it wouldn't do that. No Sir, if you'll take a look at line 23, that is not changed. All it does...it says and to other organizations found qualified. So, a 143 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 local government those...those organizations which are pre...presently qualified or qualifiable by a local government agency that wouldn't change at all. It would, however, allow that the State Comptroller...that if there were application made to the Comptroller by an organization which has not previously been found qualified. It just expands the opportunities for organizations to participate, by allowing for their...qualification...allowing for them to qualify through the State Comptroller's Office. But it does not make him, if you will, the organizational czar for the entire state, by any means."
"Well...I don't want to prolong this, but I just have to indicate that opposition to this legislation, because it does clearly say that the Comptroller of this State will pass on which organizations are to be eligible for payroll deductions at the local level."
"No Sir, and I...again if you look at line 23, it says it just has to do with additional qualified organizations."
"Well, alright, new...any new organization which is created back home and any local government, city, municipality, township or village wishes to include them in a payroll deduction, that organization must now come to the State Comptroller for approval. And that seems to me to be overreaching on the part of the Comptroller's Office. The Comptroller's Office shouldn't care what payroll deductions take place in a city or village. In all the 102 counties of this State there are thousands of local governmental units and they ought to be able to decide for themself and that seems to be what the existing law does. And this would...this would mean that before any payroll deductions could take place...anywhere in this state, for any new organization, wherever you are, if you're down in Cairo or if your in Niles Township, you're going to have to trot to 144 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Springfield and ask permission from the Comptroller, and the Comptroller then will have the obligation to pass on those decisions which means to be responsible. The Comptroller will have to check them out and I don't think the Comptroller has a budget for that purpose. So as well meaning as this legislation might be, I think it sticks the finger of State Government into local governmental units too far, and imposes a burden upon the State Comptroller's Office that it's not funded to undertake. And I doubt in this time of tight money, whether it will ever get the money to do this kind of thing. So I have to respectfully ask for 'no' votes and oppose this Bill."
"The Gentleman from St. Clair, Representative Flinn."
"Madam Speaker, for the first time I move the previous question."
"The Gentleman moves the previous question. The question is, 'Shall the main question be put?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. The main question is put. Representative Braun to close."
"Thank...Madam Speaker, I'm going to take this out of the record. Representative Dunn, is under a terrible misapprehension about this legislation. I think that it makes...I will have an opportunity to discuss it with him. I was not aware he had this concern. I would say to the Members of the floor...of this House that the analysis that Representative Dunn has given, is incorrect. And I believe I would like an opportunity to show that to him, and to the other Members who may share his concern or apprehensions about the legislation. So, I'll take it out of the record at this time."
"Thank you. Out of the record. House Bill...on 145 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day page 37 appears Clerk read the Bill." May 11, 1988 House Bill 3930, Representative Ryder.
"House Bill 3930, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Ryder."
"Thank you. This Bill was amended in committee. The title of it is incorrect since the direct deposits was taken out. At this time it's simply promulgates specific rules concerning Medicaid reimbursement for exceptional medical care, and I would suggest its passage. Thank you."
"The Gentleman moves for the passage of House Bill 3930. On that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Young."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the. Sponsor yield?"
"He will."
"Representative, I'm not quite sure I understand why we have to do what this Bill suggests. How are these payments being made now?"
"Thank you, Representative, the problem is that there...at this point there's no rules concerning the appropriate kind of reimbursement when nursing homes are required to provide exceptional medical care, exceptional medical care being the key. And what we need is those rules so that nursing homes can be able to provide that kind of service, and be compensated without having the rules in place, Medicaid is not...not willing to make that compensation. Once we have the rules in place, then we can make it. It's an opportunity, I hope, to be able to try and get some more funds available for the kind of quality care that's needed for the residents, especially the elderly poor."
"Is this exceptional medical care being provided at this time?"
"Yes, Representative, in some cases it is. But for which 146 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 there is no additional compensation being provided. If we have the rules in place, then we might be able to accomplish that. Thank you."
"Thank you."
"Any further discussion? Hearing none. The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3930 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 114 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 37 appears House Bill 3956, Representative Bowman. Do you wish this Bill called? Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3956, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act codifying the powers and duties of the Department of Mental Health. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Bowman."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The Bill is very simple. It requires the Department of Mental Health to establish a...office or a...for a coordinator of services to the hearing impaired, the mentally ill and developmentally disabled persons within their care. The department supports the legislation and I know of no further....no opposition. I move for its passage."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3956. And on that question, is there any discussion? Hearing none. The question is 'Shall House Bill 3936 (sic 3956) pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this 147 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 question, there are 113 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 38 appears House Bill 4014, Representative Giorgi. Representative Giorgi. Out of the record. On page 38 appears House Bill 4018, Representative Levin. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 4018, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Levin."
"Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. The Amendment to House Bill 4018, which was developed by the Department of Public Aid, is now the Bill. And what it simply does is to clearly give the department the authority to grant hardship assistance. We like what the department is doing in this area. There was some question whether or not they had the authority to do it. And this legislation as drafted by the department simply gives the department the clear authority to carry on the program of hardship assistance that they've been doing."
"The Gentleman from Cook has moved for the passage of House Bill 4018. And on that question, the Gentleman from McLean, Representative Ropp."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"
"He will."
"Representative, will this new Bill require any additional funds to take care of these people in special need?"
"No, Representative. The program that is in place today, is a good program and this legis...this language as...was redrafted by the department, simply gives the department the authority to do what it did now. The concern that we had, what led to the introduction of this legislation, was that the department did not have the authority to do what 148 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 it is doing. And this is drawn...was drawn by the department, it is narrowly drawn in terms of... in line with what they doing now. It does not provide for any expansion of the program, it just takes care of the problem of if they go before 'JCAR' with a set of rules on this, that they're going to have the authority to do it."
"And they can do it all over the state, it's not specifically designed for one area of the state?"
"No, what this is...this is their current program and the intent is to give them the statutory authority to do what they are doing now."
"Thank you."
"There being no further discussion. The question is, 'Shall House Bill 4018 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Have all voted who wish? This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 114 voting 'aye'... 113 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. With leave of the Body, I would like to go back to Representative Giorgi's Bill. It appears on page 38 on your Calendar. House Bill 4014. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 4014, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to asbestos. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Giorgi."
"Madam Speaker, House Bill 4014 is exactly as the synopsis says it is...it does. It adds the Director of Insurance and Labor to the Illinois Asbestos Abatement Authority, and provides that the Executive Director of the Capital Development Board, or his designee, shall serve as Chairman of the Authority. A very simple Bill, and I urge 149 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day its support."
"The May 11, 1988 Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 4014, and on that question, the Gentleman from Peoria, Representative Tuerk."
"Say, would the Sponsor yield please?"
"He will."
"Representative Giorgi."
"Yes Sir."
"Would you please repeat that just say it a little faster though?"
"This amends an Act in relation to asbestos. Incidentally, my wife had her ears cleaned last week and it did wonders for her. Adds the Directors of Insurance and Labor to the Illinois Asbestos Abatement Authority, provides that the executive director of the Capital Development Board or his designee, shall serve as Chairman of the Authority. Very simple. We're giving you some more power."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Piel. On the question."
"Would the Gentleman yield? Thank you, Madam Speaker."
"He will."
"Can you explain to us...to us, Representative Giorgi, so we can listen...so we can hear, we can listen all right, but we're having trouble hearing over on this side of the aisle. Exactly, what...now with this Bill, the way it is right now, it's taking basically the authority that the Attorney General wanted last year and conveying this to a different area. Correct?"
"That's correct. Very...you're very perceptive."
"Why?"
"Very perceptive."
"Why?" 150 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day Giorgi:
May 11, 1988 "Well, he's not a builder, he's not a fellow that takes care of buildings like the 'CDB' Chief does. He's an attorney, he's worried about the people's interest. So, he shouldn't be running around looking at buildings like your 'CDB' guy should be doing." "No...I'm not trying to figure this out, cause last year, you know, he wanted this thing and it had to be that way. We tried to amend... no, it had to be this way, and now this year he's coming back whether he wants to change it. And I'm just asking you why he wants to change it?"
"In one year a lot of things happen. For example, last year we didn't know that President Reagan consulted with the stars before he made decisions. Many things happen within a year. New perceptions. New visions. New imagination. New creativity. Get with it man."
"Is it a situation where maybe no new money..."
"Repeat that."
"He doesn't want to be responsible for something that doesn't, that can't be funded?"
"I didn't quite understand that...you mumble like I do. Say it again."
"Is it the possibility there's no money to do this, and maybe he doesn't want to be responsible for something that can't be funded?"
"We're going to provide the money for asbestos, the asbestos fight. Don't you worry about that."
"Well, then why doesn't he want to keep it and keep all that...take all that credit himself? That's what I'm trying to figure out?"
"I repeat, he's the Attorney General, the attorney for the people of the State of Illinois."
"But, that's what he brought up last year. He brought that exact point up last year and you said no, it's not going to 151 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 change, we're going to leave it this way."
"The 'CDB' Chief is your building chief. He's the guy we entrust with building mortar and bricks and lumber, throughout the entire State of Illinois. He deserves the job. He's the man for the job."
"What does the Department of Insurance have to do with it? What does the Department of Labor have to do with it? You're talking about 'CDB'...I mean, you're laughing like it's a joke. I'm just trying to figure out why you got the Department of Insurance and Department of Labor if it's the 'CDB'. You've mentioned 'CDB' ten times already."
"C...the C... Capital Development Bonding Authority Chief is the state's builder. That's...you learn that in elementary education."
"Yes, but if that's the case, then why are you adding the Director of the Department of the Insurance and the Director of the Department of Labor to it?"
"Well, the Labor can be an advisor to the 'CDB' Chief who may not have enough experience and the Insurance Director, will...worry about whether there's any real liability once he gets into the buildings."
"Yeah, you know, he's the attorney for the entire State of Illinois. He's the attorney for all the State Departments. Can't he determine whether there's a liability thing there?"
"Oh... Piel..."
"I mean he's got...come on Giorgi, tell us."
"It's like, you know, it's like you...bankers who want to get into the travel agency business. You want to get into the insurance business."
"I'm not in banking anymore. I'm sorry."
"Here's the Chief Legal Officer of the State who doesn't want to be in the building business." 152 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"Well, but why didn't he say that last year. Last year he wanted to be in the building business. Are you doing this...does he know what you're doing? Does he know what you're doing to his department?"
"The map of the world is changed in a year. We didn't know it...a year ago at this time that President Reagan listened to Nancy who consulted with a...an astrologer in California. A lot of changes in the world."
"Hey Zeke, there are certain things I might agree with you on, but you're sitting here burning up the President of the United States. You didn't listen earlier today. Let's talk about State Government. Let's not talk about Federal Government. Let's talk about State Government. A year ago you wanted all these things and now you want us to add the Department of Insurance, that's why I'm asking, does he know what you're doing this behind his back?"
"Are you frightened at this new responsibility?"
"Does he know that you're doing this behind his back?"
"Are you frightened at this new responsibility? Do you...can't your people measure up to this new responsibility I'm giving them? You ought to resign if they can't handle this new responsibility."
"I think... I think what it is..."
"Are you saying their not capable of handling the job?"
"Excuse. Gentlemen. Please bring your debate to a close. Representative Piel."
"Okay, on the issue, Madam Speaker. I think the Gentleman...four times I've asked him if the Attorney General knew what he was doing behind his back, and four times he goes talking about astrology and other business. But what I think what the whole situation is, these...the way that the Bill is set up, presently, without this Bill was the way that the Attorney General wanted it. Now, 153 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Representative Giorgi wants to change around the entire Bill adding other departments, other department heads to it, and I've asked him three different times if the Attorney General knew what he was doing. Three times, four times he just...he just wishy-washied away from the issue and I think what he's doing, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, is he's doing something to circumvent the power of the Attorney General. And I don't think its right and I would ask you to vote 'no' again...no on 4014."
"The Gentleman from McHenry, Representative Klemm."
"Yes, thank you, Madam Speaker. I stand in opposition to the Bill, only because I think when this was first suggested and proposed by the Attorney General, it had certainly a great deal of merit. We in fact supported that and created this investigative Body, if you will, with the Attorney General as its chairperson, and I think certainly we should try to keep that and not change it in the middle of the stream. If we're talking about relinquishing our authority or not being prepared to look into this matter, then certainly that same accusation would apply to the Attorney General's Office, and I don't think that's valid on either side. I think the Attorney General is dedicated to do a good job. I think we should allow him to continue to do this. He's called attention, I think properly, in many instances, therefore, I think he should continue its responsibility. The 'PA' would have put it into another agency and actually divide the responsibility into three different agencies, seems to be a little bit less effective than having one line of authority. So I would stand in opposition to this Bill, only for the sak...sake of I would like to keep the continuity of what has been established 154 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 before, so we can continue to address this abatement asbestos problem. Thank you."
"Representative Giorgi to close."
"Madam Speaker, I repeat the Bill...the entire...the entire thrust of the Bill is as the synopsis says it is, and it adds the Director of Insurance and Labor of the Illinois Asbestos Abatement Authority, and provides the Executive Director of the Capital Development Board be the Chairman. And this is as it should be, because the Capital Development Board is entrusted with the building and the buildings of Illinois with all the brick and mortar. And I think it's very good Bill and I think they've read stuff in there they want to read into it, and I think they're a little insulted and hurt, because I mentioned their great President who consults the stars. But in this case, the Bill is right and I ask my Members to support me on this Bill."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 4014 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Sixty votes are required for passage. Only vote your own switches. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 52 voting 'aye'... 51 voting 'aye', 51 voting 'no' and 3 voting 'present'. Representative Giorgi asks for Postponed Consideration. Oh, Representative Giorgi, wants to poll the absentees first. Representative Van Duyne votes 'aye'. Mr. Clerk, poll the absentees."
"Poll of those not voting. Berrios, Braun, Cullerton, Daley..."
"Excuse me. Representative Giorgi asks for Postponed Consideration. The Bill will be placed on Postponed Consideration. The next Bill is on page 38 on 155 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 your Calendar. House Bill 4037, Representative Kubik. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 4037, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Kubik."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 4037 is a 'JCAR' Bill, along with the Department of Public Aid to address a technical problem that apparently exists in the law. It...what it does, is it clarifies that a person shall not be required to occupy a permanent dwelling, or have a fixed home or mailing address to receive assistance from the Department of Public Aid. Apparently the problem is in giving assistance to the homeless, is in conflict with the law. So, I would move for the adoption of the Bill."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 4037, and on that question, the Gentleman from Fulton, Representative Homer."
"Thank you, will the Sponsor yield?"
"He will."
"Representative Kubik, do you contemplate any Amendments to the Bill?"
"No. It's a 'JCAR' Bill. I...I'm carrying it for 'JCAR'...it's not a vehicle."
"It's...This is not a vehicle Bill?"
"No. No. This addresses a real problem in the statute."
"And what is the problem?"
"The problem is that the way the statute is written, Representative, is that you have to have a permanent residence or a permanent mailing address in order to get assistance from the Department of Public Aid. And for those who are homeless they obviously don't have a permanent mailing address or residence, and so they would 156 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 have a problem receiving assistance."
"Okay. Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Lee, Representative Olson."
"Would the Sponsor yield?"
"He will."
"Representative Kubik, as a Member of the Joint Committee Administrative Rules, I think we can help clarify what the committee is seeking to have done with your Bill, and that is to permit them to do statutorally what there all doing...already doing. And as a consequence we would stand in support of your Bill."
"I appreciate that." Speaker
Representative Breslin: "The Gentleman from Madison, Stephens...no, Representative Kubik, please close."
"I would move for the adoption of the Bill."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 4037 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 105 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 38 appears House Bill 4097, Representative McNamara. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 4097, a Bill for an Act in relation to certain records and forms of identification. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative McNamara."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. House Bill 4097 is a Bill that primarily intends to provide better information for tracing of missing children. The records will be cross matched to ex...expedite death 157 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 information of missing children. Special death notations would also make it more difficult to apply for and use records of the deceased. Also birth records and other forms of identification are often used to enroll children in school, to obtain Public Aid or qualify for other services of government assistance programs. If the request are...are...if the records are...requested information about the person making the request, may enable a follow-up investigation. This Bill contains two Amendments, one by the Secretary of the State, and one by the Department of Public Aid, in order to take care of their grievances with the Bill and that they have no opposition registered at this time."
"The Gentleman has moved for passage of House Bill 4097, and on that question, is there any discussion? Any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 4097 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 104 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 38 appears House Bill 4206, Representative Young. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 4206, a Bill for an Act in relation to state contracts, amending an Act therein name. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Young." Young, A.: "Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 4206 would amend the Comptroller Act, to require one who contracts with a State Agency and the contract is worth more than $2,500.00, to file a copy of 158 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 any subcontract in excess of $2,500.00 with the Comptroller. Currently, all contracts over that amount have to be filed with the Comptroller and we're trying to help the Comptroller keep track of all State obligations. I move for its passage."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 4206. And on that question, the Lady from Cook, Representative Parcells."
"Would the Representative yield for question?"
"He will."
"Thank you. What does...does IDOT have a position, and the Comptroller, do they have a position on this Bill?" Young, A.: "I know the Comptroller is in favor of the Bill. I have not heard from the Department of Transportation, one way or the other."
"Thank you."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Didrickson on the Bill."
"Yes, thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield for question?"
"He will."
"Representative Young, can you just kind of review for me what this Bill is all about, with the Comptroller and the contracts? Who has to file their contracts with the Comptroller?" Young, A.: "Right now, any contract with any state agency over $2,500, has to be filed with the Comptroller's Office. And that's the current law. What this Bill will do, will say, if there's a subcontract between someone who's a prime contractor with the state and a subcontractor, and the subcontract is over $2,500, then that subcontract should also be filed with the Comptroller's Office."
"So what you're saying is, current law, primary 159 102nd Legislative Day contractors have to file those contracts with the Comptroller?" Young, A.: "That's correct."
"Do they also have to file them... In all instances, or sometimes with IDOT?" Young, A.: "No, in all instances, there sometimes, there may be a double filing requirement, where they file with both the Comptroller and IDOT. But all contracts, whether from IDOT or CMS or any State Agency over $2,500, is filed with the Comptroller currently."
"What's your rationale for having subcontractors have to file with the Comptroller, since, and I'll try to speed this up, but who hires and who pays the subcontractor. It's not the Comptroller, it's not the state, it's the primary contractor isn't it?" Young, A.: "Well, in theory it's the primary contractor paying the subcontractor, with in fact State dollars, and if there is a subcontract that is over the amount that would normally be required for a prime contractor to file with the Comptroller, so the Comptroller could keep the record of obligations of the state. So, if someone works on a State project so to speak, in theory the state may still have a responsibility."
"Okay, but then in essence really, it's not the state who is hiring the subcontractor, it's the primary contractor who's already filing those contracts with the Comptroller, who's doing the hiring and the payment?" Young, A.: "That's correct."
"Okay, why do we need this Bill?" Young, A.: "As another means I guess of checks and balances so that the Comptroller...there's been a lot of complaints the Comptroller's Office about work that was performed on State projects, that where payment may or may not have been 160 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 made in a timely manner. The Comptroller's in a position where he has the prime contractor on file, but when he receives these complaints, he does not know what the contract between the person complaining and the prime contractor were."
"Does this have anything to do with checks and balances as you mentioned with regards to how many contracts go out to minorities vs females?" Young, Α.: "I would think it would be another source of information to also compare how many contracts go to minorities and females."
"To the Bill, Madam Speaker."
"Proceed."
"I respect Representative Young's truthfulness and he and I have worked on a number of these Bills together. I'm just throwing up a couple of flags for those of you who do or don't follow this kind of legislation. I have some concerns that in essence, what we're really trying to do is find out whether or not females are getting too many of these contracts vs minorities. And I also have to question why it is it would be state policy for the subcontractors who are not hired by the State, they are hired by the primary contractors, who should not have to be reporting to the Comptroller, when indeed their being paid and hired by the primary contractor. And that's already state law. So, I question the real need for this Bill."
"The Gentleman from Effingham, Representative Hartke."
"Would the Sponsor yield?"
"He will."
"Representative Young, let me get this straight. You want subcontractors who have contracts with contractors that deal with business with the State of Illinois, to file 161 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 that contract with the State of Illinois and the Comptroller?" Young, A.: "We want the subcontract when it's State work involved to be filed with the Comptroller's Office as the prime contractor is right now."
"Why?" Young, A.: "So the Comptroller can have an accurate record of who exactly is doing the State's business and what the State's obligations are. Also, if I may, there has been sometimes conflicting information coming from different state departments in terms of its minority contracts and if those contracts are on file with the Comptroller, as all prime contracts already are, it will be another source of information for this Body."
"How many people is that going to employ to read these contracts and so forth?" Young, A.: "It will not require any extra expenditure on the part of the Comptroller's Office, so I am told."
"It would seem to me that someone would have to take these in and check this out, to make sure that this information is accurate and so forth. And what would it prove if this information were gathered?" Young, A.: "Currently, or also in this Assembly there's another Comptroller Bill that's going to raise the amount of contracts required to be filed within the $5,000. If that provision passes, it'll also apply to the subcontracts, and the Comptroller expects the two provisions to create a wash type situation."
"Well, I may respect what you are doing, but I still think I'm opposed to this piece of legislation."
"The Gentleman from Will, Representative Wennlund."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?" 162 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 102nd Legislative Day
"He will."
"Who's responsibility will it be to file copies of all these subcontracts with the Comptroller?" Young, A.: "The prime contractor's responsibility. As right now he has the responsibility to file his own contract with the Comptroller."
"In a case where there is a contract with the Illinois Department of Transportation, he already must disclose the amount of his subcontracts and to who the contractors are, isn't that correct?" Young, A.: "That's why we don't think it will be much of a burden for him to file that same information with the Comptroller's Office."
"But, what must he file with the Comptroller's Office? The actual contracts, copies of the subcontracts?" Young, A.: "Right now, he files a copy of his actual contract with the Comptroller, and this Bill would ask him to file a copy of his actual subcontracts."
"With the Comptroller's Office?" Young, A.: "With the Comptroller's Office."
"Why will the Comptroller's Office provide any better protection or any better monitoring of whether or not... and how will they know for instance, what the minority set asides might be on a large road project?" Young, A.: "He won't be concerned with set asides on any given projects. It will be... right now, all contracts are filed in his office and it will help him keep a better count, numbers wise, because he will have contracts from every agency and not just any single agency."
"But it will help him keep a better count of what?" Young, A.: "Of how many minority contracts are being issued and whom they are being issued to, or any subcontract."
"But how will he know, on every State job for instance, 163 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 that might be partly be paid by federal monies, whether or not there is a 25 percent MB requirement or a 35 percent or a 15 percent MB requirement?" Young, A.: "We're not...he's not going to be keeping track of goals as much as who in fact subcontractors are."
"What difference will that make? Or what statistics will that yield is the point? To place this extra burden upon the contractors in Illinois, what is the good that is intended to arise from this legislation?" Young, A.: "It will have all the information on all the subcontracts that State Agencies are issuing vicariously through prime contractors in one place, instead of having some subcontracts file with the Department of Transportation and some with CMS and some with DCCA. It will give us one place where everything will be on file."
"But would not have access to any of the information that... of the agencies would have, with respect to whether or not there's a...the percentage of requirement for minority or socially or disadvantaged or female percentage, on any contracts. It really doesn't do any good, is what I'm saying. It is not going to assure compliance with the minority set aside. Its not going to assure compliance with the percentages that may be required under a federal or federal and state project." Young, A.: "Representative, it's not meant to ensure any type of compliance. All we're doing is trying to have one central location for to get a accurate source of information on who's doing business with the State."
"But it won't be...my concern is that, and my question is that it will not be accurate, because he won't know whether it in fact complies with federal set aside requirements or not, because he won't have access to that information. That access would lie with the individual 164 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 agency like the Illinois Department of Transportation. Is that correct?" Young, A.: "No, that access will already be...that access is also in the prime contracts which is already on file in his office."
"Is this why the Comptroller put in his budget and included in his budget a forty-five percent increase for operations?" Young, A.: "No."
"Madam Speaker, to the Bill."
"Proceed."
"He's an excellent Sponsor. As a matter of fact I had dinner with him last night, he's an excellent Sponsor of this legislation. However, the burden that will be placed on Illinois contractors far exceeds the benefits or supposed benefits, and I still don't know what those are, to minority or socially disadvantaged contractors, MB's or female contractors in Illinois. That burden far exceeds any benefits that I can see on the face of this Bill, and I would encourage everyone to vote 'no' on this issue, in addition to the fact that it will increase the cost of doing business in Illinois and contracting in Illinois. Thank you."
"The Lady from Cook, Representative Pullen."
"I'd like to ask the Sponsor a question, please?"
"Proceed."
"Does the term subcontractors include material men, the providers of concrete for example?" Young, A.: "Yes."
"Thank you very much."
"The Gentleman from Will, Representative Regan."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. Earlier today I made mention of Illinois' poor rating as regards to 165 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 being attracted to business. One of those ratings that I left out was regulation, that's also part of the way we're rated 44th out of 48 states. Regulations are something that drive the businessmen crazy. We've got enough red tape to deal with as it is. This doesn't accomplish what the Gentleman really wants it to accomplish. I have no idea why and what's behind it. It's just one more burden on our contractors, which have something to deal with already. And that's the only state in the union that's got the Scaffolding Act still in force, they have a helluva time competing with neighboring states. I'd advise a 'no' vote please."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Parke."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise. in opposition to this Bill. What we have here is a classy example of the typical expansion of government that we on the conservative Republican side traditionally tried to stop. For no apparent reason other than curiosity, or for a hand full of people who may not be fulfilling their responsibility for minority set asides, we must penalize the business community. We are going to end up having reams of paper work again required, that no one's going to read, that they don't have staff to file, that there is only a small amount of abuse obviously that we're dealing with here. The Comptroller is going to come to us in about a month, and say that they have to increase their budget when we in fact cannot adequately provide for education, cannot adequately provide for mental health, because of the current structure that my Democratic colleagues have decided to put through appropriations. This is again a typical antibusiness Bill that continues to make Illinois unattractive to businesses staying, for businesses locating in Illinois and for petes sake let us stop these kinds of Bills that just add 166 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 additional paper work with no sense, no reason to it. I ask that we defeat this Bill. Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Krska. Representative Krska. No. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz."
"Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He will yield."
"Who has to file the subcontractor's contract? The subcontractor or the contractor?" Young, A.: "The contractor."
"Is the purpose for doing that, because the contractor himself is not really going to be doing the work, and he is simply then, or she, a conduit for cash of state money and we want to know then who is really doing the work?" Young, A.: "That's one of the purposes."
"One of the other purposes is, or let me make it a form of a question. Isn't one of the reasons we want to do this, is to make sure this subcontractor gets paid so that the money just doesn't go to the prime contractor, and the subcontractor can get left hung high and dry?" Young, A.: "That's also one of the reasons, Representative."
"Madam Speaker, to the Bill."
"Proceed."
"I think this is an excellent protection to the small businessmen around the state and small businesswomen. And this side of the aisle occasionally gets criticized, warranted or unwarranted for not doing anything for business. But for small contractors, many times a prime contractor will let them hang out and they are unpaid. This Bill would make sure that there is something on file with the Comptroller's Office, to make sure that small business person that takes a subcontract, from the contractor that ends up doing the work, furnishing the 167 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 labor, furnishing the material, that person will be assured a better chance of getting paid on a contract that comes from the state. Many of the red herrings that have been up offered up by the other side of the aisle, are simply I think false. They will find that the Capital Development Board in fact does this now with small contractors, the subcontractors who actually do the work. And this would simply put it into law. I'd encourage your 'aye' vote for small business."
"Representative Young, to close." Young, A.: "Thank you, Madam Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. This Bill is not a burden on business right now. Currently prime contractors file their contract with the Comptroller's Office. They file their subcontracts with whichever State Agency they are doing business. This Bill would require one xerox copy of the subcontract to be filed with the Comptroller at the time the prime contract is filed. So let's be honest, people who are against this Bill are against the Members of this Body having a means to check information coming from State Agencies. So, if you want to keep information hidden, if you want to allow State Agencies to be able to tell the State Government, this Body one thing, a Federal Government another thing and perhaps a court a third thing with no checks on that agency, then vote against that Bill. But, if you want an open government, if you want to know who's doing business with the State, then this Bill puts no burden on the Comptroller, no burden on business and all it does is supply us, let us know who in fact is participating in state work. And I ask for an 'aye' vote."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 4206 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. Sixty votes are required for passage. 168 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Only punch your own switches. Have all voted who wish? Representative Young, for what reason do you seek recognition?" Young, A.: "To request that if this Bill doesn't get the requisite number of votes, that I receive Postponed Consideration."
"Very good. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 51 voting 'aye', 50 voting 'no' and 4 voting 'present'. And the Bill will be placed on Postponed Consideration. Ladies and Gentlemen we are now going to go back to five Bill's that Members have requested consideration for and they are now back on the floor. The first one appears on page 34 of the Calendar, House Bill 2285, Representative Wyvetter Younge. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 2285, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Younge."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. House Bill 2285, will amend the Public Aid Code to provide that the caseworkers shall receive training and budgeting policy and other financial aspects of the department's program. The Amendment which becomes the Bill, is approved by the Department of IDPA and it would mean that the policy of the General Assembly in the State of Illinois, that recipients should be moved towards self-sufficiency, should be moved towards training that would help them to manage their affairs and to rear their children and to move out of poverty and to move into private gainful employment. Would be taken as a responsibility by the caseworkers, that they would be trained in how to talk with people and how to get that information over to the recipients. And so with the 169 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Amendment, this is a Bill that the department agrees with, and I ask for your approval of this proposition."
"The Lady has moved for the passage of House Bill 2285. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Parke."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield for a question?"
"She will."
"Representative, I'd just like to have some kind of an idea what you think this is going to cost the taxpayers of Illinois to have this kind of training for them."
"It will not have any budget impact. IDPA, the Illinois Department of Public Aid, now has a budget whereby it trains its caseworkers. And the only thing that would happen is that the emphasis and the policy addressed in this Bill, that is that the caseworkers take the responsibility for our learning these things and therefore transmitting this information to the recipients. It's a change in policy, but that will have no budgetary effect."
"And you don't think that you will be going back to them for additional funding for an increased program structure?"
"I definitely will not."
"Thank you."
"Representative Kubik, on the question."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield?"
"She will."
"Representative, the Amendment removes the requirement of 12 college semester hours of economics, and now would reflect the current policy of the Department of Public Aid?"
"It would put into the statute the requirement that the caseworkers receive budgetary policy training and financial training, so that they can transmit this information to the 170 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 102nd Legislative Day Kubik: recipients." "Okay, but it would not require any additional schooling or attendance of school?"
"That's correct."
"Okay, thank you."
"The Gentleman from Will, Representative Regan."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield for a question?"
"She will."
"Representative, what information are they to be trained in to transmit?"
"The caseworkers would receive information in child rearing, in budgeting, and management of resources, and home management, and the things that are needed as subject matter information by the recipients. And as a result of this Bill, the policy of the department will be to have... to orient its workers in that, so that they can transmit that information to the recipients."
"How much time do you think a caseworker would have to spend to teach a family to parenting, fiscal responsibilities? I suppose it's not too bad if they're in there. How often does a caseworker go to a home?"
"That is an...my impression is that they go to a home maybe once a month. They are there making checks and seeing that eligibility is still present, and my goal is that when they are there doing that, they ought to be doing this other thing too."
"Is there anything in your Bill at all that would have the caseworker advise the family of additional monies that could come in from a different source that they are not taking advantage of now, or anything of that nature?"
"I think that's a good idea, and if they...they ought to advise the families about every source of monies that would 171 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 make it possible for them to get off of Public Aid and into gainful private employment. And any problems that the family has that they know of sources to resolve those problems, certainly they ought to do that. But my major goal is to get the family off of Public Aid into private gainful employment."
"Thank you."
"The Gentleman from Franklin, Representative Rea."
"Madam Speaker, I would move the previous question."
"The Gentleman moves the previous question. The question, is 'Shall the main question be put?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it, the main question is put. Representative Younge to close. Quickly."
"I move for the passage of the Bill."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 2285 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Representative Young, one minute to explain your vote." Young, A.: "Right. This Bill places the responsibility on the Department of Public Aid to train caseworkers to carryout the policy of the General Assembly. That is to move people from Public Aid to private gainful employment. Those people that we already retain and are on the state payrolls would...who come directly in contact with the recipients, should be given this specific training and should be given this responsibility. And I'll ask you please to add the amount of votes up there necessary to carry out the policy of the General Assembly."
"Representative Wojcik, one minute to explain your vote." 172 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"Yes, to explain my vote, Madam Speaker I think there's a misconception here. The original Bill is not what is being presented now. This has all been ironed out in our Human Services Committee and it is a good Bill. There is no cost to anybody, there is no additional cost."
"Representative Hallock, one minute to explain your vote."
"I would like to just point out also, that the Department of Public Aid use to oppose this Bill, they now have no position on it. I think it's a good idea and I urge you to support it."
"Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? It's nice to have friends on the Republican side of the aisle, Representative. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 87 voting 'aye', 19 voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. The next Bill appears on page 36 on your Calendar, House Bill 3730, Representative Mays. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3730, a Bill for an Act to amend the Civil Administrative Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Mays."
"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3730 is a Department of Conservation Bill. It would allow the department to establish reserve accounts and leasehold accounts within the lease agreements. This would help them address problems of ongoing maintenance to a given site within the lease agreement. It would also help them resolve problems if a piece of equipment happens to break down, the individual lease holder could get the thing improved in a timely manner. I move its adoption." 173 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3730 and on that question is there any discussion? Any discussion? Hearing none the question is, 'Shall House Bill 3730 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 106 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. On page 37 appears House Bill 3804, Representative Mays. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3804, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relation to Mental Health Developmental and Disabilities. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Mays."
"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3804, we pulled out of the record a bit earlier to address some questions of a Member. This is a Bill that would allow the Department of Mental Health to expand patient travel trust funds into the given institutions. And I believe we've answered the questions. These are state funds, and it's a Department of Mental Health proposal. I would move for its passage."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3804, and on that question is there any discussion? Any discussion? Hearing none the question is, 'Shall House Bill 3804 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question, there are 108 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This Bill having received the 174 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. A Bill on Second Reading on this same call, appears on page 29 on your Calendar, House Bill 4175, Representative Kirkland. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 4175, a Bill for an Act in relation to the conveyance or transfer of land. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"No Floor Amendments."
"Third Reading. Back on Third Reading under State and Local Government, on page 34 appears House Bill 3222, Representative Tate. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3222, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Purchasing Act. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Tate."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3222 amends the Illinois Purchasing Act. It requires all state agencies to impose performance standards on successful bidders similar to those imposed currently by the C.D.B. Board or the IDOT for all capital projects. It requires all state agencies to impose performance standards on successful bidders for all noncapital expenditures similar to those imposed by the Department of CMS. This Bill I have found through a specific situation in my legislative district with one agency in government where the...an agency awarded a contract with no...with no time parameters on it. And as a result there were constant delays in the project and the project did not move forward. What this Bill would do, is it requires an agreement or a contract between state agencies for capital projects that contain a commencement date as well as a completion date. If you believe in good government, then this is the Bill that you should support. 175 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 The only thing that's a problem with this Bill, this Bill isn't far reaching enough. I wish this Bill would cover the R.T.A., the McCormick Place and other projects. But later on hopefully we can get to that. This Bill has no significant fiscal impact at all and I move for its approval."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3222. And on that question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Young. Representative Giorgi in the Chair." Young, A.: "Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates that he will." Young, A.: "I'm reading the Bill. It seems like you're talking about purchasing guidelines of IDOT in the Capital Development Board, is that correct Representative?"
"That's correct." Young, A.: "What are those guidelines?"
"Well, Representative Young, the Bill just says that it would adopt the same guidelines that IDOT and CDB currently has. Those are fairly encompassing and very detailed. It would probably take a great deal of time to explain those on the House Floor. But, those are very accessible to each and every Member of the General Assembly." Young, A.: "Who's adopting those guidelines?"
"Well, what I'm doing is, is I'm calling on every agency currently in State Government to adopt the same...to conform with the same guidelines that we have with those two agencies. If your concern would be minority representation with contractors we would ask the agencies to conform with the same guidelines that CDB currently has. So, quite frankly in that area there probably would in fact be an improvement, because some agencies probably currently have no quotas at all for capital projects." 176 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day Young, A.: "What if an agency already has its own Are we saying..." May 11, 1988 guidelines?
"Then they would have to conform with the current ones that IDOT and CDB. I can assure you that there would be, in terms of the quality of the contract let, that there would be much more regulatory supervision under the current standards of IDOT and CDB than there would be under agencies. Oftentimes you'll find that I'm sure as a Member of an Appropriations Committee, you'll find that agencies sometimes have discretions for maintenance contracts and for some capital projects, that they can go out and let willy-nilly. What this is, is establishing guidelines, some uniformity in government. This is good government." Young, A.: "Representative, what happens if there's conflicting guidelines between the Department of Transportation and the Capital Development Board?"
"The Bill says similar, SO it is somewhat open-minded, open-ended there and it does allow some discretion." Young, A.: "To the Bill, Mr. Speaker."
"Proceed." Young, A.: "I think it's more than open-ended, as someone said it's quite ambiguous. We're talking about making state agencies adopt guidelines, but we don't talk about which guidelines they are adopting. And we have two state agencies here who may have different guidelines, and there's no provision on what to do when those guidelines conflict. I'm not quite sure what the Sponsor's intent is, but I think that this Bill needs a little more work to clarify exactly what it is or when an agency has to file with IDOT, when they have to file with Capital Development Board, and maybe sometimes their own guidelines might be better for that particular agency than the ones adopted by IDOT and the Capital Development Board. So, I think 177 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 without a little more specifics on what the Sponsor is talking about, we might be opening up some doors we don't want opened."
"Representative Didrickson, on House Bill 3222."
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Sponsor yield for a question or two?"
"He indicates he will."
"Representative, Tate I think I recall a similar Bill like this a year ago. In fact, I think I was House Sponsor after it passed the Senate. And part of the debate, the different affected interest groups along with CMS etc., got together, and I think Representative Younge was there also. That trying to work out some of the nebulous language and determinations in which you're proposing again this year, it was determined that, that wasn't needed. What's the reason why this year we're coming back?"
"Representative Didrickson, I have had one specific situation in my district arise, but through additional investigation, and I sent out a letter to all agencies and agency directors in State Government, asking them to respond to a questionnaire on currently how they handle capital projects. And what we found was a great diversity in that response. Basically what we are trying to do here is establish at least some minimum standards."
"Have you brought your concerns to the M.F.B.E. Council?"
"The what?"
"The Minority, Female Business Enterprise Council."
"No...No we have not."
"To the Bill, Mr. Speaker."
"Continue."
"I'm not going to totally disagree that there may be some times that guidelines are needed other than just IDOT. 178 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 But, I do believe that we already have a council and that the Act that we passed, the Minority Female Enterprise Business Act, set in motion a thirteen member council. And it's composed of both public and private members and its sole purpose is to really go through procedures, review rules and regulations of the program, monitor its progress etc. I happen to think that, that would be a more appropriate way to handle this particular individual situation and I would suggest it to the Sponsor."
"Representative Leverenz on House Bill 3222."
"Would the Sponsor yield?"
"He indicates he will."
"What does this do that we don't have doing for us now?"
"Well, it assures that agencies for example, Conservation, that do get...that does get involved in capital projects, would have some kind of standards that would conform with IDOT or CDB, basically. Very simple."
"They don't do that now?"
"Some do not, no."
"Which ones don't?"
"For a classic example would be Conservation."
"In what area? Making boat docks or what? At what Tate: level of the project? Starting with zero and on up?" "State park projects... State park projects for example."
"Wasn't this in the redo of the Purchasing Act? I think it was part of the Purchasing Act. Wouldn't you agree?"
"That was not a...the response we got from our research."
"Is this supported by the Legislative Audit Commission?"
"No, I did not check with the Audit Commission, however..."
"I had heard that they did not support it, and I just 179 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 thought that that should be made a point, that the Audit Commission does not support it. But I don't understand what this will do for us now or in the future, that we don't do for ourselves already. Is this a shell Bill for some reason?"
"No, all it's doing is trying to establish some standards."
"And who brought this to you?"
"I did myself."
"Oh, now we're really in trouble."
"Yeah, absolutely, absolutely."
"Unless we...to the Bill Mr. Speaker, unless we can see that the Audit Commission would support some change in the Purchasing Act, I would think that this Bill should be looked at as suspect and would not vote for it. Thank you."
"Representative Mays, do you want to close? Tate, I'm sorry, Representative Tate, do you want to close?"
"Well thank you, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. House Bill 3222 is obviously got... generated a great deal of discussion here. But, if you'll look closely at the Bill, essentially what we're saying here is that we people that believe in good government, people that believe in establishing some minimum standards for going out and letting contracts, then you should have to conform with regulations that we currently have adopted for other aspects of government. Basically, those being the Capital Development Board and the Department of Transportation. So, if you really believe in good government, and you don't believe in government that can go out and take care of just anybody on a random basis, a government that performs responsibly to the taxpayers of this State, then you're going to vote for this Bill. Now, if you're in the 180 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 government that might be the buddy system here, or your in to taking care of your own friends on a contractual basis up there and you've got something to hide over there, then vote against this Bill. But, I want to see a lot of green votes up here. We'll see who believes in good government."
"The question is, 'Shall House Bill 3222 pass?' All those in favor signify by voting 'aye' and those opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish, going for the third time? Representative Tate, explain your vote."
"In the unlikely event, Mr. Speaker, that this doesn't receive 60 votes, I will ask for a Postponed Consideration, because I'm sure that there are 10 more people that will join me in good government."
"Postponed Consideration."
Speaker Breslin: "On that Bill that went on Postponed Consideration, there were 52 voting 'aye', 46 voting 'no' and 3 voting 'present'. Representative Breslin, in the Chair. House Bill...on page 36 appears House Bill 3550, Representative Petka. Clerk, read the Bill."
Third Clerk O'Brien: "House Bill 3550, a Bill for an Act in relation to land conveyance by the Department of Conservation. Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Petka."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. House Bill 3550 would authorize the Department of Conservation to convey the parcel of land which it presently holds title to, to the Bristol-Kendall Joint Cemetery Association, which is basically the Elmwood Cemetery. This parcel of land adjoins the present hatchery of the Department of Conservation in Kendall County, basically is used for the breeding of pheasants. After a meeting with members of the Bristol-Kendall Association, and also meeting with a member 181 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 of the Department of Conservation, we felt that it was a decent idea to have this land utilized by the cemetery simply because they had no where else to go. They were running out of space...burial space. I have talked with the Department of Conservation and have told them that if there is an agreement that is not reached in the way that the pens will be removed, that this Bill simply will not move over in the Senate, in the event that it gets over there."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3550, and on that question the Gentleman from Macon, Representative Dunn."
"Will the Sponsor explain what the First Amendment does to this Bill?"
"Representative Petka, explain what the First Amendment does to the Bill."
"The First Amendment basically becomes the Bill. The First Amendment is basically the legal description for the parcel of property which is about an acre and a half."
"Alright, as the Bill is amended does it just transfer a piece of property someplace? Is that all it does? Now I can't hear you."
"That's correct, that's all it does is transfer a piece of property."
"Okay, thanks that's all."
"Representative Homer on the question."
"Madam Speaker, I have a Parliamentary inquiry."
"State your inquiry."
"It's my understanding that House Rule 34(g) provides that no Bill authorizing directing conveyance from the state...real estate to a entity other than a governmental agency may be voted on, unless there is a certified appraisal. Was there a certified appraisal filed on Second 182 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Reading?"
"Mr. Clerk, is there a certified appraisal filed on this Bill? Representative Petka, can you answer that question?"
"The answer is no."
"Very good. Then I would ask that you take the Bill out of the record to get that appraisal."
"I will do so, I will take the Bill out of the record, please. Thank you."
"Thank you. On page 35 appears House Bill 3445, Representative Mays. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3345, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Public Aid Code. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Excuse me...it's House Bill 3445."
"House Bill 3445, a Bill for an Act authorizing the Capital Development Board to collect various administrative fees. Third Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Tate."
"Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. House Bill 3445 would create the Capital Development Board Revolving Fund, which would be used for funds deposited into the fund received from publication fees, to allow CDB to keep a better tab on construction projects that are going on. This was suggested by the construction industry. I know of no opposition to the Bill and I would move for its passage."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of House Bill 3445. And on that question, is there any discussion? Any discussion? Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall House Bill 3445 pass?' All those in favor vote 'aye', all those opposed vote 'no'. Voting is open. This is final passage. Have all voted who wish? The Clerk will take the record. On this question there are 105 voting 'aye', none voting 'no' and none voting 'present'. This 183 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Bill having received the Constitutional Majority, is hereby declared passed. Ladies and Gentlemen, we understand that the Republican side of the aisle would like to go to a conference. It is the plan of the Chair to grant that request, and it is hopeful that they will be able to finish their Caucus within one hours time. We will then return to the floor and hopefully work then one hour beyond that. So the shorter the Caucus, the shorter we are in this evening. I would also like to advise you that we will be in Session on Friday. So make plans to be here and to work a full day on Friday. The plan on Monday is to not be in Session out of respect for Governor Ogilvie, and the memorial service that will be held for Governor Ogilvie in Chicago. That is at 4:00 Ρ.Μ. on Monday in Chicago. So for Members to get there they...we really have to be out of Session that day. We will then plan to return on Tuesday at 11:00 A.M. to proceed with consideration of Bills. So the plan is now to recognize Representative McCracken."
"For Republican conference for one hour?"
"The Gentleman asks for a Republican conference for one hour. We will then return to the floor and continue on Third Reading, Special Business. There is no Democratic conference, unless someone really wants to confer. Okay. Return to the Assembly at 5:45. Return to the Assembly at 5:45. If we come back and start Session at 5:45, we will be out of Session by 6:45. If.
"The hour of 5:45 has arrived, we would ask Members to return to the chamber please. We will begin business just as soon as the Caucus breaks up. Ladies and Gentlemen, I would again ask Members to return to the House floor. As soon as we begin, we are going to go to the Special Order of Business on Business Regulation, Second Readings. So, Representative Brunsvold, will have the 184 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 first Bill up. So come to the floor and let's get ready to go. After him is Giorgi, Braun, Matijevich, Dunn, McPike, Levin, Braun. Representative Leverenz, for what reason do you rise?"
"I have an inquiry of the Chair."
"State your inquiry."
"Now."
"Not now."
"Thank you. You at least have the lines right. There was a prior person in the Chair that could never get it straight."
"Representative Mulcahey, for what reason do you rise?"
"Madam Speaker, I would ask unanimous leave of the House to advance House Bill 30...and discharge House Bill 3156 from Rules and to advance the order of Third Reading, First Legislative Day."
"Are you the Chief Sponsor of that Bill, Sir?"
"Yes, I am."
"Can you tell us what the Bill does?"
"It has to do with...it has to do with revenue enhancement and it concerns the process by which we will develop some means to try to resolve the problems concerning the education funding. And I would ask leave of the House."
"The Gentleman has asked leave to discharge the Revenue Committee for House Bill..."
"Ma'am, the Rules Committee."
"The Rules Committee. The Rules Committee. And place House Bill 3156 on the order of Third Reading, First Legislative Day."
"Yes, Ma'am."
"All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed 185 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'nos' have it. You lose again Representative Mulcahey. But you made some lights flash up here, I want you to know that. Representative Mulcahey, for what reason do you rise?"
"Madam Speaker, according to... I wish to cite Rule 4(b) of the Rules of the 85th General Assembly, it states that to open the Session at the time at which the House is to meet by taking the Chair and calling Members to the order. Madam Speaker, you were in the Chair, you called the Members to order, you indicated that 5:45 was the time that the Republican Caucus was come to an end. Therefore, I would move to discharge the Republican Caucus, Caucus."
"The Gentleman has ruled...has moved on the Rule 4(b)."
"And have you... Madam Speaker, and have you invoke the Rule 4(b)?"
"Yes, yes. The Gentleman has moved under Rule 4(b) to discharge the Democratic conference...the Republican conference. And on that question the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Bowman."
"Well, actually I'm not sure that's in the rules. But I'll tell you what is in the rules, you have the power to order the State Police to go and fetch the Republicans from wherever they may be hiding within the State of Illinois. That's in the rules."
"I understand they are working on getting that 51st vote for a tax increase. So, it's a very hot Session. Representative Leverenz, for what reason do you rise?"
"I just rise in support of the House voting if we have to. But, it is in your power to invoke 4(b) and call the House to order. We are now more than an hour past the time that you allotted them and said that we would be back at 5:45. And I believe the most responsible action would be 186 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 to go ahead and proceed, which would encourage the Members to return to the chamber rather than delay this side of the aisle and further consideration. We have some things to get done and we can move on."
"Very good, you have heard the question. And on the question, Representative Matijevich."
"Madam Speaker, I don't want to speak for any Republicans, but I did talk to one of them that's in that Caucus and his name is Regan, R.E.G.A.N., and I am informed that he is writing a book, and at this present time in the Caucus they are determining whether the stars are right for them to vote for a tax increase. So, I think they ought to stay there. The sun has not set yet, let's give them time to find out whether the stars are in the right order."
"The Gentleman from Macon, Representative Dunn on the question."
"Well Madam Speaker, I'm not exactly sure what the plot is, but for the record I'd just like to say count me in."
"Let the record show that Republican Representative Tim Johnson, is on the floor and ready to do business. The Gentleman from Cook, Representative Young on the question." Young, A.: "Madam Speaker, I think if you would have called a couple of my Bills against the Department of Transportation, the Republicans might come back to the floor. Why don't we start with 4118?."
"Okay, the question is 'Shall the House under Rule 4(b) discharge the Democratic...the Republican Conference?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. Who said no? Who said no over there? In the opinion of the Parliamentarian however, Representative Mulcahey, Rule 4(b) applies to the time in which the Session is adjourned to. So, that only applies 187 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 to the time when we came in Session this morning, and that is 9:00 Α.Μ. Representative Mulcahey."
"Madam Speaker, I would move to amend that on it's face."
"Amend the rule? Or the Motion?"
"Yes, Ma'am."
"You're not on the Calendar to do that. You got to be on the Calendar to change the rules here. Representative Leverenz."
"Well now the truth is really out. We asked for expert opinion on how to get us off first base here or out of the dilemma that we are in. That was furnished to us by our esteemed friend, the Parliamentarian, who in the normal course of events has found out how to get the Chair out of that dilemma. So.."
"In the tradition of Representative Michael Getty, the Parliamentarian will give you his opinion."
"On behalf of the Speaker, the Speaker is out of order."
"Representative Leverenz."
"I now move to overrule the Parliamentarian."
"But...he ruled with you."
"Oh."
"Oh."
"Well wait a second. Now he's with us again? We could honor the Gentleman with a Resolution. What do you propose? Let us do this. I now move the house stand in adjournment."
"Representative Leverenz has just moved that this House stand adjourned. On that question is there any discussion? According to the Parliamentarian, now we are in recess, so I cannot take that Motion. Okay. We're going to work for one hour Ladies and Gentlemen...one half 188 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 hour, one half hour. And we're going to try to do Second Readings under Business Regulation. So, Representative Bowman, for what reason do you rise?"
"Madam Speaker, I request a Democratic Conference at this time. Not to last more than one Republican hour. One Republican hour for a Democratic Conference. So it may take a long time, I would ask everyone to bring a bag lunch."
"The Gentleman has requested a Democratic Conference. If we allow such a Democratic Conference, Members, I want you to know that we will come back to the floor and we will work then for one hour from the time of the end of that conference until we can adjourn. Representative McCracken, for what reason do you rise?"
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am... of course I am in support of the Motion, because it's not really a Motion. It's a matter of right. But, let me tell you what I'd ask your Membership and mine to stand up to, no more tyranny. Take your conference, but tell the Chair we are not coming back for another hour tonight. We're adults, we run our own schedule."
"Representative McCracken, the Chair would remind you that promptness is the courtesy of Kings. Representative Mulcahey, for what reason do you rise?"
"Madam Speaker, I move we adjourn."
"You have not been recognized unfortunately for that Motion, Representative Mulcahey. But I would say that the Membership is...it really does not appreciate what has gone here this afternoon. The first Bill under the Special Order of Business is Business Regulation. The first Bill is on page 7 on the Calendar, House...it's on Second Reading by the way, we're only going to do Second Readings. House Bill 917, Representative Brunsvold. Clerk, read the 189 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 Bill."
"House Bill 917, a Bill for an Act in relation to Licensing and Regulating Fire Equipment Distributors. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in committee."
"Any Motions or Amendments?"
"No Motions filed. Floor Amendment #2, offered by Representative Brunsvold."
"Representative Brunsvold. Representative Brunsvold."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amendment #2... or House Bill 917 would create the Fire Equipment Distributor and Employee Regulation Act. This Bill Sponsored by myself and Representative Parcells, provides for licensing and regulation of fire equipment companies and their employees by the State Fire Marshall's Office. Amendment #1 is the Bill as was adopted in committee. Amendment #2 directs that all funds collected under the Act would be deposited in the Fire Prevention Fund which funds the operations of the State Fire Marshall's Office. The Amendment also removes any reference to home rule preemptions and to class 3 installation which removes the objection of the City of Chicago, the Illinois Municipal League and the A.F.L.C.I.O., which was addressed in committee. House Bill 917 was reported out of the House Regulation and Registration Committee, a vote of 14 to 1. Amendment was prepared at the request of Members of the committee, but those interests... previously mentioned. I know no opposition to the Amendment and would move for its adoption."
"The Gentleman...the Gentleman has moved for the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 917. And on that question, the Gentleman from DuPage, Representative 190 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day McCracken."
"I don't see the Amendment. Has it been May 11, 1988 printed and distributed? Do we have it? Okay. Then let me just say Madam Speaker, that our call of our conference today for one hour was made in good faith and I'm sure Speaker Madigan called his conference for one hour yesterday in good faith and stayed out for an hour, hour and a half, hour 45 minutes. So, it's kind of small to infer or imply that we have done something wrong by taking our conference."
"Representative McCracken, however you were requested to have it at the end of the day so that other Members could go home or go about their other business. And you did not defer to do that.. If there is anything further on this question, the Gentleman from Cook, Representative Leverenz on the Amendment. It has been printed and distributed. Representative Leverenz."
"Will the Sponsor yield?"
"He will."
"Where would the money come from?"
"The money would come from application fees and the yearly fee for operation."
"And where does it get deposited?"
"It's deposited in the Fire Marshall's Fire Prevention Fund which is operated by the Fire Marshall's Office."
"That fund is not operated by the Fire Marshall's Office, per se. The Fire Marshall's Office is funded by part of the money in that fund. But if it is their intent to have that money deposited there, you should know that, that is a fund that never uses all of that money to fund the State Fire Marshall's Office. As a matter of fact, that fund is used by the Governor, because they never use a lot of it and at his direction that money rolls over into 191 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 General Revenue. So, it isn't going to get where you want it to get, but you may want to do something with that in the Senate."
"Any further discussion? Hearing none the question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"
"There are no further Amendments."
"Third Reading. On page 7 of your Calendar appears House Bill 1573, Clerk, read the Bill. Representative Giorgi's Bill."
"House Bill 1573, a Bill for an Act to register landscape architecture. Second Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Giorgi."
"Madam Speaker, this Bill must be held on Second Reading, because there was an agreement with the committee and with the objectors to the Architecture Act. And the Amendment isn't ready yet."
"Very good, out of the record. On page 9 appears House Bill 2755. Out of the record. On page 11 appears House Bill 3096, Representative Matijevich. Clerk read the Bill."
"House Bill 3096, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to the practice of clinical social work. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in committee."
"Are there any Motions or Amendments?"
"No Motions. No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. On page 5 appears House Bill 3289, Representative John Dunn. Clerk, read the Bill. Representative Dunn, you want this Bill called? Clerk, read the Bill." 192 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"House Bill 3289, a Bill for an Act to amend the Hearing Aid Consumer Protection Act. Second Reading of the Bill."
"Are there any Motions or Amendments? Representative Hensel, for what reason do you seek recognition?"
"I'd like to ask a question of the Sponsor. It was agreed in the committee that he would present an Amendment and I don't see an Amendment coming up in this Bill."
"They are looking for it right now, according to the Clerk. Out of the record, Representative Dunn. Representative Dunn, they can't find any Amendment filed. Representative Dunn. Representative Dunn suggests, Representative Hensel, that we move it to Third with the commitment that he would bring it back as soon as the Amendment is found or ready. Is that acceptable to you?"
"I'd prefer it the other way, but can't we just call it tomorrow when the Amendment's ready?"
"There is no Amendment filed. It's between you two Gentlemen. Representative Dunn."
"Well I...there was discussion of an Amendment and I will bring the Bill back. I would like to get it on Third, because of the time frame which we will be quickly coming to. And I will pull it back and put the Amendment on."
"You'll pull it back on Third Reading? For the Amendment? Okay."
"Yes."
"Out of the record. Excuse me, the Bill is on Second, there are no Motions, no Amendments, the Bill moved to Third. The next Bill is on page 20, House Bill 3597, Representative McPike. Clerk, read the Bill. Out of the record. On page 22 appears House Bill 3790, Representative Levin. Clerk, read the Bill. Representative Levin, for 193 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day what reason do you seek recognition?" May 11, 1988
"Madam Speaker, could you read the Bill a second time, but leave it on Second?"
"Very good. Read the Bill a second time, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 3790, a Bill for an Act to amend the Medical Practice Act. Second Reading of the Bill."
"Any Motions or Amendments? The Bill has been read a second time and it will remain on Second Reading. House...on page 37 appears House Bill, excuse me on page 23 appears House Bill 3793, Representative Braun. Out of the record. With leave of the Body, I will go back to House Bill 2755. It appears on page 9 on your Calendar, Representative Kubik. Representative Kubik, has asked leave to handle that Bill for Representative Braun. Where is the Gentleman? Does the Gentleman have leave to handle the Bill for Representative Braun? He is a hyphenated Co-sponsor. Is there any objection? Hearing no objection, he has leave. Read the Bill on Second, Mr. Clerk."
"House Bill 2755, a Bill for an Act in relationship to the practice of speech-language pathology and audiology. Second Reading of the Bill."
"Any Motions or Amendments?"
"Amendment #1 was adopted in committee. There are no further Amendments or Motions."
"Third Reading. I'm sorry Representative Kubik, there was a request for a fiscal note on that Bill and it has not been filed. So, Representative Kubik now asks leave to return this Bill to the order of Second Reading where it will remain until a fiscal note is filed. Thank you. Representative Bowman, is recognized on a Motion."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. I would move for immediate consideration of House 194 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Resolution 1376. It's been printed and distributed, it's on the Members desk. I've checked this with the other side of the aisle."
"The Gentleman has asked leave for immediate consideration of House Resolution 1376. Are there any objections? Hearing no objections the Gentleman has leave. Representative Bowman, on the Resolution."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen this is a very simple Resolution. It amends a Resolution that we passed last week establishing the Special Investigating Committee on the subject of patient care in state mental hospitals and in private facilities for the mentally ill and the developmentally disabled. All this does is to add one more Member from each party to the committee. One more Member from each party so it is bipartisan and as I understand meets with no objection from the other side of the aisle."
"Mr. Clerk, would you read the Resolution for us please?"
"House Resolution 1376 offered by Representative Bowman. Resolved by the House of Representatives of the 85th General Assembly of the State of Illinois, that House Resolution 1340, adopted May 5, 1988, be amended by deleting the following from the resolved clause: (1) Consists of six members, three each to be appointed by the Speaker and by the Minority Leader of the House, including a co-chairman to represent each party. And by inserting in lieu there of the following: (1) Consists of eight members, four each to be appointed by the Speaker and by the Minority Leader of the House, including a co-chairman to each respect... each party...to represent each party."
"The question is, 'Shall House Resolution 1376 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those 195 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it... I understand we need a Roll Call on this. The question is, 'Shall...' The question is, 'Is there leave to use the Attendance Roll Call for the adoption of House Resolution 1376?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the Resolution is adopted by use of the Attendance Roll Call. On the Special Order of Business under Business Regulation, Second Reading, appears Senate Bill 209. Who is the House Sponsor of Senate Bill 209, Mr. Clerk? Representative Mautino."
"Representative Shaw."
"Representative Shaw or Representative Mautino? Representative Mautino. Senate Bill 209, Representative Mautino for what reason do you rise?"
"I believe, Madam Speaker, if you would check the Sponsors, it's Shaw, Rice, Mautino with Mautino handling it in committee and on the House floor."
"Proceed."
"Thank you very much..."
"Excuse me, the Bill has to be read a second time, Mr. Clerk."
"Senate Bill 209, a Bill for an Act to amend the Regulatory Agency Sunset Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in committee."
"Are there any Motions or Amendments?"
"There are no Motions filed, nor further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Senate Bill...on page 38 is Senate Bill 566. Who is the Sponsor of that? Representative LeFlore. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"Senate Bill 566, a Bill for an Act concerning the regulation of the practice of respiratory care. Second 196 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day Reading of the Bill. Amendments #1 and 2 were adopted in May 11, 1988 committee."
"Are there any Motions or Amendments?"
"No Motions filed, nor no further Amendments."
"Third Reading. I understand a fiscal note was requested on that one too, Representative LeFlore. I've been told it's been filed, Mr. Clerk. Would you research that please? We'll come back to that Bill if we need to. Now we are going to the Special Order of Business under County Government, Second Reading. On page 4 of the Calendar appears House Bill 812, Representative Steczo. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 812, a Bill for an Act in relationship to forest preserve districts. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendments #3 and 4 were adopted in committee."
"Are there any Motions or Amendments?"
"No Motions filed. Floor Amendment #5 is being offered by Representative DeJaegher."
"Representative DeJaegher."
"Thank you, Madam Chairman. Amendment #5 deals with a situation that I have in Rock Island County. The Rock Island County Board has been cited by E.P.A. What they wish to do is raise from 0058 to 1 cent, which would give them an additional $49,000 per year, to correct the sewer problems that are prevailing at Illini...I mean at the Niabi Zoological Park."
"The Gentleman has moved for the passage of... the adoption of Floor Amendment #5 to House Bill 812. And on that question, 'Is there any discussion'? Any discussion. Hearing none the question is, 'Shall Amendment #5 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any 197 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day further Amendments?"
May 11, 1988 "Floor Amendment #6 offered by Representative McCracken."
"Representative McCracken, on Amendment #6."
"Yes, I'm ready, thank you. Floor Amendment #6 would require..."
"Excuse me, Representative Steczo for what reason do you rise?"
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to remind Representative McCracken that Amendment #7 is...which follows this, is the Amendment that we agreed upon yesterday that will replace Amendment #6."
"I'm sure you're right Terry, I can't recall that. As a matter of fact, Ralph Barger has just come up to me and we're talking about it right now, whether this is a better one. And it appears to be. If you can give me just a minute though I'd like to look at it. I just haven't seen it."
"Sure. Let's take it out of the record for now."
"Shall we take it out of the record? Very good, out of the record. On page 8 appears House Bill 1820, Representative Ropp. Out of the record. On page 21 appears House Bill 3717, Representative Wojcik. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3717, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Motions or Amendments?"
"No Floor Amendments."
"Third Reading. House...on page 25 is House Bill 3927, Representative Barnes. Out of the record. On page 30 appears House Bill 4247, Representative Flinn. Clerk, read the Bill." 198 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988
"House Bill 4247, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in committee."
"Are there any Motions or Amendments?"
"There are no Motions filed. Floor Amendment #2 is being offered by Representative Flinn."
"Representative Flinn."
"Madam Speaker, I believe there is a request for a fiscal note on this, so why don't we take it out of the record?"
"Out of the record. And on page 66 appears House Bill 4266, Representative Giglio. Out of the record. Ladies and Gentlemen, we will go now to the Special Order of Business under Business Regulation, Senate Bills Third Reading. Senate Bill 566, Representative LeFlore. The Clerk informs us that a fiscal note was requested on that Bill. It has not been filed. Therefore, the Bill will be returned to the order of Second Reading until that fiscal note is filed. With leave of the Body, return House Bill...Senate Bill 566 to the order of Second Reading. Under the Special Order of Business on Administration of Justice. Second Reading Bills only. On Page 7, appears Senate...appears House Bill 1576, Representative Countryman. Out of the Record. On page 8 appears House Bill 2159, Representative Hasara. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 2159, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal Code. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"There are none."
"Third Reading. On page 9 appears House Bill 2569, Representative Currie. Out of the Record. On page 4 appears House Bill 2737, Representative Flinn. Excuse me Dunn, John Dunn. Out of the Record. On page 10 appears 199 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 House Bill. Representative Dunn, is in the chamber. With leave of the Body we'll go back to House Bill 2737, it's on page 4 of your Calendar. Mr. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 2737, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act in relationship to the verification of statements. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #1 is being offered by Representative Dunn."
"Representative Dunn."
"Floor Amendment #1 simply deletes all reference to the Election Code, and I would ask for adoption of the Amendment."
"The Gentleman moves for the adoption of Amendment #1 to House Bill 2737. On that question, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."
"Does that.. Does that mean that the Bill does not affect any repeal of the Notary Public Act? Does not create it or is not repealed for purposes of the Election Code? Is that what it means?"
"Well, the actual."
"I put it awkwardly."
"Well, there is a Section left in the Bill which may in fact apply to the Election Code and apply generally across the chapters of the statute book. But all references to the Election Code are deleted by this Amendment. That's the sole purpose of this Amendment."
"Then this Bill cannot be used as a vehicle to amend the Election Code. That's what its all about."
"Any further discussion? Representative Homer."
"Will the Gentleman yield? It's my understanding, It's my understanding Representative Dunn, that your Amendment does 200 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 not change the effect of the Bill. Is that correct?"
"Does not change what?"
"Doesn't change the effect of the Bill. Wouldn't change... Is that correct?"
"Representative Dunn, to answer the question."
"The...no the Amendment deletes references to the Election Code but the substance of the Bill is essentially the same. That's correct."
"The substance of the Bill still pertains to the Election Code, however, is that correct?"
"I think it does. Yes."
"Thank you."
"The question is, 'Shall Amendment #1 to House Bill 2737 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"
"There are no further Amendments."
"Third Reading. On page 10 appears House Bill 3057, Representative O'Connell. Representative O'Connell, Out of the Record. On page 11 appears House Bill 3113, Representative Currie. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3113, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in committee."
"Any Motions or Amendments?"
"No Motions filed. Floor Amendment #2, is being offered by Representative Currie."
"Representative Currie."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker, Members of the House. This is a technical clarification, that would just cross-reference another Section of the statute in the provisions of the 201 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day underlying Bill. House Bill 3113." May 11, 1988
"The Lady moves for the adoption of Amendment #2 to House Bill 3113. And on that question is there any discussion? Hearing none. The question is, 'Shall Amendment #2 be adopted? All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. On page 11 appears House Bill 3128, Representative O'Connell. Out of the Record. On page 12 appears House Bill 3196, (sic. 3197), Representative Hultgren. Representative Hultgren. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3197, a Bill for an Act to amend the Juvenile Court Act. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was adopted in committee."
"Any Motions or Amendments?"
"No Motions filed. No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. On page 13 appears House Bill 3221, Representative Ryder. Representative Ryder. Out of the Record. On page 20 appears House Bill 3598, Representative McCracken. Clerk, read the Bill. Out of the Record. On page 20 appears House Bill 3615, Representative Daley. Out of the Record. On page 20 appears House Bill 3661, Representative O'Connell. Out of the Record. On page 5 appears House Bill... must be 35, appears House Bill 3803, Representative Countryman. It might be page 5, Mr. Clerk, I'm not sure."
"It's page 5, it's under Second Reading, Short Debate. House Bill 3803, a Bill for an Act to amend the Criminal..."
"Out of the Record. On page 6 appears House Bill 38... 3987, Representative Homer. Representative 202 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Homer, do you want this Bill called? You want this Bill called? Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3987, a Bill for an Act in relationship to probation services fees. Second Reading of the Bill. Amendment #1 was offered in committee.".
"Any Motions or Amendments?"
"No Motions filed. No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. On page 26 appears House Bill 3998, Representative Parcells. Clerk, read the Bill."
"House Bill 3998, a Bill for an Act to amend an Act to create the Department of Children and Family Services. Second Reading of the Bill."
"Representative Parcells, there's a fiscal note requested on this Bill. She doesn't have it. Leave the Bill on Second, Mr. Clerk. On page 27 appears House Bill 4042, Representative Pullen. Clerk, read the Bill. Mr. Clerk, do you have this Bill?"
"House Bill 4042, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Vehicle Code. Second Reading of the Bill. No committee Amendments."
"Any Floor Amendments?"
"Floor Amendment #1, offered by Representative Pullen."
"Representative Pullen."
"Thank you Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this actually should have been a Committee Amendment, but we ran out of time. The Amendment is technical to rearrange the Bill into the order in which it should have been drafted to begin with, and it puts the Bill into the shape in which the committee understood it would be when they approved the Bill from the Transportation Committee last week. I would move and urge a favorable adoption of this Amendment." 203 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day
"The Lady has moved for the Amendment #1 to House Bill 4042. On there any discussion?. adoption of that question, is Hearing none, the question is, 'Shall Amendment #1 be adopted?' All those in favor say 'aye' those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment is adopted. Are there any further Amendments?"
"No further Amendments."
"Third Reading. Representative Homer is recognized to make a Motion on Senate Bill 124. It's on page 46 of your Calendar. Where is Representative Homer? There he is. This is your Motion on Senate Bill 124."
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. At this time I would move to suspend Rule 79(e) and place Senate Bill 124 on the Calendar on the Order of Speaker's Table, Conference Committee or... yes, Speaker's table on the Order of Conference Committee Reports."
"You have heard the Gentleman's Motion and on that question, is there any discussion? The Gentleman from DuPage, Representative McCracken."
"Tom, can you tell us what this is about? Are we talking about a... this is a Conference Committee, has it been printed and distributed or is this left over from last years...?"
"This is actually a leftover, Representative McCracken that is going to be stripped. I'm going to be asking for a second Conference Committee Report, for the purpose of providing some technical cleanup language that's been requested by the Cook County State's Attorney, that would make no substantive revisions. Unless any of the Members of the old A-team have any other ideas that."
"I'm sure we have good ideas for this."
"Well, I'll talk to you about them." 204 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day
"Alright very good. Thank you." May 11, 1988
"You've heard the Gentleman's Motion. He wishes to suspend Rule 79(e) and place Senate Bill 124 on the Order of Speaker's Table Conference Committee Reports. All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it by use of the Attendance Roll Call. Representative Giorgi moves that we continue the Special Orders of Business until the call of the Chair. All those in favor say 'aye', all those opposed say 'no' in the opinion of the Chair the 'ayes' have it. And the special orders will be continued until the call of the Chair. Representative Curran. Is Representative Curran here? You wish to make an announcement, Sir?"
"Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish to remind the Members who have it in their plans tomorrow morning, that the Governor's prayer breakfast at Holiday Inn East will start at 7:30. Several Members are coming as my guests and I believe several Members are coming as Representative Hasara's guest. Holiday Inn tomorrow morning at 7:30."
"By agreement of both sides of the aisle, Ladies and Gentlemen, we are going to prepare to adjourn. Allowing perfunctory time for the Clerk to read all Bills on the Order of State Budget, and to hold those items on Second Reading. So, with that in mind... Representative McPike. Oh, were going to do Agreed Resolutions first. Agreed Resolutions, Mr. Clerk."
"House Resolution 1374, Currie. 1375, Currie. 1377, Preston. 1378, Barger. 1381, Black. 1382, Black. 1383, Granberg. 1384, Kubik. 1385, Parcells. 1386, Curran and Hannig. 1387, Ryder."
"Representative Matijevich moves the adoption of the Agreed Resolutions. Are there any objections? Hearing none, the Agreed Resolutions are adopted. Death 205 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 102nd Legislative Day Resolutions."
"House Resolution 1379, offered by Representative Morrow. With respect to the memory of Henry Monroe Brown. House Resolution 1380, offered by Representative Morrow, with respect to the memory of Beatrice Jones."
"Representative Matijevich, moves the adoption of the Death Resolutions. Are there any objections? Hearing none the Death Resolutions are adopted. Any further business? Allowing time for perfunctory for the Clerk, for messages from the Senate, First Reading of Bills from the Senate, and time to read in those into the record those Bills appearing under the Order of State Budget, and hold those Bills on Second Reading. Representative McPike, moves that we stand adjourned until 10:00 a.m. tomorrow. Until 10:00 a.m. tomorrow. All those in favor say 'aye' all those opposed say 'no'. In the opinion of the Chair, the 'ayes' have it. And this House stands adjourned until 10 a.m. tomorrow."
"Messages from the Senate. Message from the Senate by Ms. Hawker, Secretary. Mr. Speaker, I am directed to inform the House of Representatives that the Senate has passed Bills with the following title, and the passage of which I'm instructed to ask concurrence of the House to wit; Senate Bills #1762, 1773, 1796, 1803, 1806, 1812, 1814, 1827, 1830, 1876, 1592, 1603, 1611, 1612, 1633, 1671, 1702, 1704, 1706, 1707, 1709, 1887, 1889, 1906, 1938, 1947, 1955, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1966, 1967, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1989, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2007, 2011, 2027, 2028, 2041, 2051, 2055, 2063, 2079, 2087, 2147, 2152, 2153, 2200, 2202 and 2217, passed by the Senate May 11, 1988. Linda Hawker, Secretary of the Senate. Senate Bills, First Reading. Senate Bill 1762, Brunsvold, a Bill for an Act to Amend the Local Mass Transit District Act. First Reading of the 206 102nd Legislative Day STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE May 11, 1988 Bill. Senate Bill 1773, Dunn, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1796, Bowman, a Bill for an Act concerning the Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1803, Pullen, a Bill for an Act in relation to the prevention of certain communicable diseases. First reading of the Bill. Senate bill 1806, Capparelli, a Bill for an Act to amend the Northeastern Illinois Planning Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1592, DeLeo, a Bill for an Act to create the Home Equity Assurance Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1603, Flinn, a Bill for an Act to amend the Illinois Credit Union Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1671, Matijevich, a Bill for an Act in relation to the practice of clinical social work. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1889, W. Peterson, a Bill for an Act to amend the Revenue Act. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 1999, Satterthwaite, a Bill for an Act to amend the School Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 2011, W. Peterson, a Bill for an Act to amend the Insurance Code. First Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 2202, Mautino, a Bill for an Act to add to the Illinois Sports Facility Authority Act. First Reading of the Bill. House Bills, Second Reading. House Bill 3116, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Board of Elections. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3150, a Bill for an Act appropriating funds in relation to Build Illinois Program. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3162, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Supreme Court. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3199, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary contingent expenses to the Illinois Department of Insurance. Second Reading of 207 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 the Bill. House Bill 3200, a Bill for an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses for the Office of Governor. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3201, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of State Police. (Sic-House) Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 3202, a Bill for A an Act appropriating for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Human Rights. Second Reading of the Bill. Senate Bill 32, House Bill 3203, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Rehabilitation Services. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3204, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Central Management Services. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3205, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Corrections. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3207, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses for the Illinois Arts Council. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3208, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary contingent expenses of the Civil Service Commission. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3209, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Professional Regulations. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3210, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Mines and Minerals. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3211, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Children and Family Services. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3212, a Bill for an Act making appropriations 208 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 for the ordinary and contingent expenses for the Department of Public Health. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3224, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the State Emergency Service and Disaster Agency. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3225, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Illinois Racing Board. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3226, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Court of Claims. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3227, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Transportation. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3228, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Revenue. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3229, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses for the Department of Aging. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3230, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Industrial Commission. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3231, a Bill for an Act making certain reappropriations for the Department of Transportation. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3232, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses for the Human Rights Commission. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3233, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Health Care Cost Containment Council. First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3234, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Historic Preservation Agency. Second Reading of the Bill. House 209 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 Bill 3235, a Bill for an Act making appropriations of the Office of State Fire Marshal. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3236, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the State Labor Relations Board. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3237, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Department of Energy and Natural Resources. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3238, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Property Tax Appeal Board. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3239, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses for the Office of Public Council. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3240, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Pollution Control Board. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3241, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Local Labor Relations Board. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3242, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Local Governmental Law Enforcement Officers Training Board. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3243, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the Liquor Control Commission. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3244, a Bill for an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Office of Lieutenant Governor. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3280, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the State Board of Education. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3281, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the State Board of Education. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3282, a Bill for an Act making 210 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 appropriations from the Common School Fund to the State Board of Education. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3318, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Office of the State Appellate Defender. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3403, a Bill for an Act making appropriations for the Secretary of State. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3463, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Court of Claims. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3511, a Bill for an Act to provide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Office of State Treasurer. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3539, a Bill for an Act making certain appropriations. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3540, a Bill for an Act making certain appropriations. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3542, a Bill for an Act making certain appropriations. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3543, a Bill for an Act making certain appropriations. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3663, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Office of State's Attorneys Prosecutor. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3782, a Bill for an Act making certain appropriations. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3783, a Bill for an Act making certain appropriations. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3846, a Bill for an Act to amend the General Obligation Bond Act. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 3984, a Bill for an Act making certain appropriations. Second Reading of the Bill. 3984. House Bill 3985, a Bill for an Act making appropriations... making an appropriation. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 4024, a Bill for an Act making appropriations to the Metropolitan Fair an Exhibition Authority. Second Reading of the Bill. House Bill 4278, a Bill for an Act making 211 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85th GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TRANSCRIPTION DEBATE 102nd Legislative Day May 11, 1988 various appropriations. Second Reading of the Bill. And that completes State Budget. Special Order of Business. Second Reading. The Bills will be held on Second Reading. Being no further business, the House now stands adjourned." 212 REPORT: TIFLDAY 11:44 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX PAGE 1 09/16/88 MAY 11, 1988 HB-0589 RECALLED PAGE 38 HB-0589 THIRD READING PAGE 39 HB-0812 SECOND READING PAGE 197 HB-0917 SECOND READING PAGE 190 HB-1279 THIRD READING PAGE 41 HB-1573 SECOND READING PAGE 192 HB-1573 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 192 HB-1669 THIRD READING PAGE 44 HB-1729 SECOND READING PAGE 3 HB-2159 SECOND READING PAGE 199 HB-2285 THIRD READING PAGE 169 HB-2293 THIRD READING PAGE 105 HB-2422 SECOND READING PAGE 3 HB-2737 SECOND READING PAGE 200 HB-2755 SECOND READING PAGE 194 H3-2909 SECOND READING PAGE 2 HB-2932 SECOND READING PAGE 2 HB-2960 SECOND READING PAGE 2 HB-2993 THIRD READING PAGE 106 HB-3017 SECOND READING PAGE 2 HB-3096 SECOND READING PAGE 192 HB-3104 SECOND READING PAGE 100 HB-3105 SECOND READING PAGE 2 HB-3113 SECOND READING PAGE 201 HB-3116 SECOND READING PAGE 207 HB-3131 SECOND READING PAGE 4 HB-3142 SECOND READING PAGE 2 HB-3150 SECOND READING PAGE 207 HB-3156 MOTION PAGE 185 HB-3162 SECOND READING PAGE 207 HB-3195 SECOND READING PAGE 2 HB-3197 SECOND READING PAGE 202 HB-3199 SECOND READING PAGE 207 HB-3200 SECOND READING PAGE 208 HB-3201 SECOND READING PAGE 208 HB-3202 SECOND READING PAGE 208 HB-3203 SECOND READING PAGE 208 HB-3204 SECOND READING PAGE 208 HB-3205 SECOND READING PAGE 208 HB-3207 SECOND READING PAGE 208 HB-3208 FIRST READING PAGE 208 HB-3209 SECOND READING PAGE 208 HB-3210 SECOND READING PAGE 208 HB-3211 SECOND READING PAGE 208 HB-3212 SECOND READING PAGE 208 HB-3222 THIRD READING PAGE 175 HB-3224 SECOND READING PAGE 209 HB-3225 SECOND READING PAGE 209 HB-3226 SECOND READING PAGE 209 HB-3227 SECOND READING PAGE 209 HB-3228 SECOND READING PAGE 209 HB-3229 SECOND READING PAGE 209 HB-3230 SECOND READING PAGE 209 HB-3231 SECOND READING PAGE 209 HB-3232 SECOND READING PAGE 209 HB-3233 FIRST READING PAGE 209 HB-3234 SECOND READING PAGE 209 HB-3235 SECOND READING PAGE 210 HB-3236 SECOND READING PAGE 210 HB-3237 SECOND READING PAGE 210 HB-3238 SECOND READING PAGE 210 HB-3239 SECOND READING PAGE 210 HB-3240 SECOND READING PAGE 210 HB-3241 SECOND READING PAGE 210 REPORT: TIFLDAY 11:44 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX MAY 11, 1988 PAGE 2 09/16/88 HB-3242 SECOND READING PAGE 210 HB-3243 SECOND READING PAGE 210 HB-3244 SECOND READING PAGE 210 HB-3267 SECOND READING PAGE 5 HB-3273 SECOND READING PAGE 6 HB-3275 THIRD READING PAGE 108 HB-3280 SECOND READING PAGE 210 HB-3281 SECOND READING PAGE 210 HB-3282 SECOND READING PAGE 210 HB-3289 SECOND READING PAGE 193 HB-3297 THIRD READING PAGE 111 HB-3304 SECOND READING PAGE 6 HB-3318 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3339 THIRD READING PAGE 115 HB-3346 SECOND READING PAGE 2 HB-3347 THIRD READING PAGE 121 HB-3354 SECOND READING PAGE 100 HB-3354 RECALLED PAGE 101 HB-3355 THIRD READING PAGE 123 HB-3381 SECOND READING PAGE 6 HB-3403 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3417 SECOND READING PAGE 2 HB-3418 SECOND READING PAGE 2 HB-3427 THIRD READING PAGE 124 HB-3445 THIRD READING PAGE 183 HB-3463 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3464 THIRD READING PAGE 127 HB-3470 SECOND READING PAGE 2 HB-3492 SECOND READING PAGE 3 HB-3511 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3512 SECOND READING PAGE 3 HB-3539 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3540 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3542 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3543 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3550 THIRD READING PAGE 181 HB-3612 SECOND READING PAGE 31 HB-3636 THIRD READING PAGE 135 HB-3649 RECALLED PAGE 132 HB-3649 THIRD READING PAGE 133 HB-3663 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3706 SECOND READING PAGE 32 HB-3706 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 33 HB-3717 SECOND READING PAGE 198 HB-3726 SECOND READING PAGE 3 HB-3730 THIRD READING PAGE 173 HB-3735 THIRD READING PAGE 139 HB-3766 SECOND READING PAGE 33 HB-3782 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3783 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3785 SECOND READING PAGE 34 HB-3788 SECOND READING PAGE 33 HB-3790 SECOND READING PAGE 194 HB-3790 HELD ON SECOND PAGE 194 HB-3804 THIRD READING PAGE 174 HB-3804 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 141 HB-3846 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3864 SECOND READING PAGE 35 HB-3870 SECOND READING PAGE 102 HB-3870 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 104 HB-3873 SECOND READING PAGE 104 HB-3879 SECOND READING PAGE 35 HB-3910 THIRD READING PAGE 142 HB-3910 OUT OF RECORD PAGE 145 REPORT: TIFLDAY 11:44 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX MAY 11, 1988 PAGE 3 09/16/88 HB-3930 THIRD READING PAGE 146 HB-3956 THIRD READING PAGE 147 HB-3984 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3985 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-3987 SECOND READING PAGE 203 HB-3998 SECOND READING PAGE 203 HB-3998 HELD ON SECOND PAGE 203 H3-4010 SECOND READING PAGE 35 HB-4014 THIRD READING PAGE 149 HB-4018 THIRD READING PAGE 148 HB-4024 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-4037 THIRD READING PAGE 156 HB-4042 SECOND READING PAGE 203 HB-4059 SECOND READING PAGE 43 HB-4097 THIRD READING PAGE 157 HB-4153 SECOND READING PAGE 36 HB-4175 SECOND READING PAGE 175 HB-4197 SECOND READING PAGE 3 HB-4206 THIRD READING PAGE 158 H3-4247 SECOND READING PAGE 199 HB-4258 SECOND READING PAGE 36 HB-4262 SECOND READING PAGE 36 HB-4278 SECOND READING PAGE 211 HB-4279 SECOND READING PAGE 36 SB-0124 MOTION PAGE 204 SB-0209 SECOND READING PAGE 196 SB-0566 SECOND READING PAGE 196 SB-1456 SECOND READING PAGE 37 SB-1592 FIRST READING PAGE 207 SB-1603 FIRST READING PAGE 207 SB-1655 FIRST READING PAGE 2 SB-1671 FIRST READING PAGE 207 SB-1762 FIRST READING PAGE 206 SB-1773 FIRST READING PAGE 207 SB-1796 FIRST READING PAGE 207 SB-1803 FIRST READING PAGE 207 SB-1806 FIRST READING PAGE 207 SB-1889 FIRST READING PAGE 207 SB-1999 FIRST READING PAGE 207 SB-2011 FIRST READING PAGE 207 SB-2202 FIRST READING PAGE 207 HR-1376 ADOPTED PAGE 196 HR-1376 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 195 JSR-0005 ADOPTED PAGE 94 JSR-0005 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 80 JSR-0006 ADOPTED PAGE 99 JSR-0006 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 94 JSR-0191 ADOPTED PAGE 49 JSR-0191 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 49 SUBJECT MATTER HOUSE TO ORDER REPRESENTATIVE MCPIKE PAGE 1 PRAYER REVEREND J. KEELE PAGE 1 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE PAGE 1 ROLL CALL FOR ATTENDANCE PAGE 1 CONSENT CALENDAR SECOND READING PAGE 2 REPRESENTATIVE GIGLIO IN CHAIR PAGE 30 REPRESENTATIVE MCPIKE IN CHAIR PAGE 38 HOUSE AT EASE PAGE 48 HOUSE TO ORDER SPEAKER MADIGAN - JOINT SESSION PAGE 48 REPRESENTATIVE DANIELS IN CHAIR PAGE 49 SECRETARY WILLIAM J. BENNETT PAGE 51 SPEAKER HADIGAN IN CHAIR PAGE 80 REPORT: TIFLDAY 11:44 STATE OF ILLINOIS 85TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBATE INDEX MAY 11, 1988 PAGE 4 09/16/88 SUBJECT MATTER REPRESENTATIVE KULAS IN CHAIR PAGE 81 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE PAGE 82 PRAYER ARCHBISHOP INNOCENT LOTOCY PAGE 82 ARCHBISHOP CONSTANTINE PAGE 83 JULIAN KULAS PAGE 88 MICARLADO DANCOH PAGE 90 SPEAKER MADIGAN IN CHAIR PAGE 91 REPRESENTATIVE BRAUN IN CHAIR PAGE 100 REPRESENTATIVE BRESLIN IN CHAIR PAGE 105 HOUSE RECESSES FOR REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE HOUSE RECONVENES PAGE 184 PAGE 184 DEATH RESOLUTIONS PAGE 206 AGREED RESOLUTIONS PAGE 205 ADJOURNMENT PAGE 206 PERFUNCTORY SESSION PAGE 206 MESSAGES FROM SENATE PERFUNCTORY SESSION PAGE 206 ADJOURNMENT PAGE 211