Illinois Senate Floor Debate — February 9, 1995

The regular Session of the 89th General Assembly Nill please come to order. Will the Members please be at their desks, and will our guests in the gallery please rise. Our prayer today Will be given by Pastor Wenneborg, Chatham Christian Church, Chatham, Illinois. Pastor Wenneborg.

(Prayer given by Pastor Wenneborg)

Will you please rlse for the Pledge of Allegiance, given by Senator Petka. SENATOR PETEA; (Senate recites the Pledge of Allegiance, led by Senator Petka)

We have quite a few requests to film today: WAND, WCJA . WICS and Illinois Informatlon Service. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. Reading of *he Journal. Senator Butler.

Mr. President, move that reading and approval of the Journals of Tuesdayy February 7th and Wednesdayy February Bth, the year 1995: be postponed, pending arrival of the printed Journal.

Senator. Butler moves to postpone the reading and approval of the Journal, pending the arrival of the printed transcripts. There being no objection: so ordered. We also have KHQA -- requests filming, and also WBBM-TV. Is lêavê granted? Leave is granted. Committee Repcrts.

Senator Madigan, Chair of the Committee on Insurance, Penstons and Licensed Activities, reports Senate Bills and 225 Do Pass. Senator Raica, Chairman of the Committee on Public Health and 1  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Welfarew reports Senate Biàls 113, 216 and 2l7 Do Pass; and Senate Bills 8, 159 and 203 Do Passr as Amended. Senator Marpiely Chair of the Committee on Executive y reports Senate Bills 20, and 253 Do Passr as -- as Amended; and Senate Resolution 6 Be Adopted. Senator Mahar, Chair of the Conmittee on Environment and Energyr repores Senate Dills 4: and 214 Do Pass; Senate Bills l60 and l82 Do Pass, as Amended; and Senate Joint Resolution 8 Be Adopted. And Senator Peterson, Chair of the Committee cn Revenue, reports Senate Bills 105 and 238 Do Pass; Senate Bill 76 Do Pass, as Amendedr and House Bill 200 Do Pass, as Amended.

Resolutions.

Senate Joint Resolution l9, offered by Senator Carroll. Tt's substantive.

- - Whoop ! Rules Conmittee. Introduction of Bills.

Senate Bill 379, offered by Senators Demuzio, Welch and others. (Secretary reads title of bi1l) Senate.B1l1 380, by Senator Sieben. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 381, by Senator Hawkinson. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 382, by Senator Woodyard. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 383, by Senator Parker. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Blll 384, by Senator Petka. 2  STATE 0F ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Leglslative Day February 1995 (Secrekary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 385, by Senators Smith, de1 Valle and others. (Secretary reads title of bi11) Senate Bill 386, offered by Senators DeAngelis and Demuzio. (Secretary reads title of bi11) Senate Bill 387, by Senators DeAngelis and Demuzio. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 388, by Senators DeAngelis and Demuzio. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 389, by Senators DeAngells and Denuzio . (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 390: by Senator Walsh. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 391, by Senator Madigan. (Secretary reads title of bill) lst Reading of the bills.

You know what... could have your attention for a minute, we -- we are going to go to 2nd Readings. I hope that everybody will be preparedr if they have amendments, to move their bills. Then we're going to go through -- to 3rd Readlngs. We hope to get through the whole Calendar, give everybody a shot at 3rd Reading. So -- and welll probably use the timer, like we did yesterday . I think . it worked pretty well. So without further ado, on the top of page 2, Senate Bills 2nd Reading. Senate Bill 72. Senator del Valle. Senator de1 Valle. Take iE ou* of the record. Senator Demuzio.

Just a matter of inquiry: Are we still going to plan on being here tomorrow then, if welre going to go Ehrough the Calendar today?

STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Yes. Senate Bill 84. Senator Karpiel. Read the bill.

Senate Bill 84. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the blll. No committee or Floor amendmentsy Mr. President.

3rd Reading . Senate Bill 100. Senator Dudycz. Take it out of the record. Senate Bill 109. Senator Peterson. Senator Peterson. Read the bill.

Senate Bill 109. (Secretary reads kitle of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. The Committee on Local Government and Elections adopted Amendment No. 1.

Have there been any Floor amendments that have been apprcved for consideration?

No further amendments reported, Mr. Presldent.

3rd Reading. Senate Bill 124. Senator Dillard. Read the bill.

Senate Bill 124. (Secretary reads tlEle of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. No committee or Floor amendmenEs, Mr. President.

3rd Reading. Senator Jacobs. 127. Read *he bill.

Senate Bill 127. 4  STATE 0/ ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 1 (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. The Committee on Local Government and Elections adopted Amendment No . 1.

Have there been any other Floor anendments that have been approved for consideration?

No further amendments reported, Mr. President.

3rd Reading. Senate Bill 133. Senator Peterson. Take it out of the record. Senate Bill -- take it out of the record . Senate Bill 141. Senator Woodyard. Senator Woodyard . Take it out of the record . Senate Bill 158. Senator Geo-Karis. Read the bill.

Senate Bill 158. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. The Committee on Local Governmenk and Elections adopted Amendment No. 1.

Have there been any other Floor amendments that have been approved for consideration?

No further amendments reported, Mr. President.

3rd Readlng . Senate Bll1 164. Senator DeAngelis. Read the bill.

SenaEe Bl11 164. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. No committee or Floor amendments, Mr. President.

5  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Reading. Senate Bill 165. Senator Watson. Senator Watson. Senakor Watson. 165? Read *he bill.

Senate Bill 165. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. No committee or Flocr amendments, Mr. President.

3rd Reading. Senate Bill 168. Senator Syverson. Senator Syverson. 1687 Take it out of the record. Senate Bill 180. Senator Burzynski. Read the bill.

Senate Bill 180. (Secretary reads title cf bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. No committee or Floor amendnents, Mr. President.

3rd Readlng. Senate Bill 205. Senator Cronin. Senator Cronin. Read the bikl.

Senate Bill 205. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. No ccmmittee or Floor amendments, Mr. President.

3rd Reading. Senate 206. Sena*or Geo-Karis. Read bill.

Senate Bill 206. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. No committee or Floor amendments, Mr. President. 6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995

3rd Reading. Senate Bill Senator Dudycz. Read the bill.

Senate Bill 222. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. No committee or Flocr amendments, Mr. President.

3rd Reading. We're now on Senate Bills 3rd Reading, the middle of page Senate Bill Senator Watson. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

Senake Bill l0. (Secretary reads title of bill) 3rd Reading of the bill.

Senator Watson.

Yes. Thank your Mr. President. This is Senate Bill and the contents of Senate Bill 10 the legislation dealing with what we have called commonly called the fast-track legislation on welfare reform . Thank you, Madam President. This is Senate Bill l0, and as you all know believe you a1l know this is the legislation dealing with welfare reform. And want to preface my remarks by making a few statements. And you've heard me say Ehis before because this issue - or the welfare reform issue - is something certainly not new to this Chamber, and I've been sponsor of various provisions over the years, feel very strongly about it. The problem that I see With Welfare Was in the l960s, we declared war on poverty. And here we are, 1995, and not sure What Nedve accomplished during khose thirty-fivp years. 7  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 We've thrown an incredible amount of money at -- at the situation. We thought we were establishing a safety net, and that's no longer the case, because whak we dre seelng now is simply generation after generation of dependency on what is commonly kncwn as welfare. The poverty numbers eontinue to grow, and I think we need to have a new change of dlrection, a new philosophy. We need to break that chaln cf dependency, and thatls what the inltlative we have before us attempts do. llke to say that what we're a1l about over here on this side of the aisle is helping people help themselves, but We also like to think that the individuals should be held accountable and responsible for their actlons. That's what this legislation is about. There are some eleven provislons in Senate Bill l0. Some of these have been debated on this Floor before; many of them have passed. There are some new provisions. But I will go through and briefly mention the eleven various provisions. 0ne we call the ''teen parent must live at homen provlslon. That says that if you are enrolled in AFDC, you are under the age of eighteen and never marriedy you must live with your parent, legal guardian or other adult relative. There are some exceptions in the Act. This is a statewide provision. Teen parents must stay in school. We feel over here, on this side, that education is important to getting someone off the dependency of welfare and get them ou* of poverty . EducaEion is important. Many of khe provisions in here revolve around education not only for the recipient, but for the chlldren of the recipient. And we also feel that the family network is important, and that's what the flrst provision was al1 abouEr was trylng to maintain some support for that young mother with the family. The second provision involvinq teen parents stay in school says that AFDC parents under the a:e of eighteeny who have never marriedr Ehey mus: be working towards a high school diploma or a GED equivalent, some educational training. This is a statewide  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT l4*h Legislatlve Day February 9, 1995 initiative. The personal responsibility ac* is the one in which we say that tf you are enrolled in AFDC - and you can enroll with whatever number your family unit may be, but if you are enrolled and you have an additional child, your grant does not go up accordingly. This does not impact Medicaid; this does not impact food stamps. We also feel that it's important that the money that nay be realized and saved from programs such as this be put back into trying to help the people help themselves. So we say that money that is saved from this: we are telling the Department of Public Aid that the savings must be utilized far training, for education, transportation, and especially one that think We all are concerned about, and that's called transitional day care. The transitlonal child care as we now know it is twelve months. We would like to see that go to twenty-four months, because we feel we want Eo see the those individuals get out into the wcrkforce, but we understand that day care can be a problem, that child care can be a problem . And we Nant to help those people maintain that job and stay in those jobs, and We think it's important to give tbem that type of assistance. Learnfare it provides that if a chlld -- if children of AFDC familles who are in the Cirst through sixth grades have a chronic truancy problem, then the -- the Department af Public Aid shall refer that chlld and family to a social service aqency who will hopefully assist that individual in getting that child back in school. That is a statewide initiative also, as resources permit. The child support enforcement We are believers, again, in indivlduals belng responsible for that -- thetr actkons, and that includes fathers. This proposal wculd allow the Department of Revenue to collect child support in a similar fashlon as they do now on income tax. This is a statewide initiakive. We also alkow for the Department of Professional Regulation to suspend licenses of those indlviduals who may be delinquent on their child support. also 9  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLX REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT :4th Legkslatkve Day February 1995 affects the Attorney Act, so attorneys and those individuals who are licensed with the State of Illinols, theic professlonal license could be in jeopardy lf they do not pay their child support. We also feel that paternity -- establishing paternlty is important, and this is a pilot program that says that during that first six months that an indlvidual is enrolled in AFDC, we would like for that young mother, or that mother, to identify the father. Now: under certain situations, obviously that may not be able to be the casex and those exceptions are spelled out in the law, and in the bill. But she does not cooperate within that six-month period, much of her benefits could be affected. Welfare to work - again: getting people off of welfare and cnto a job. That's the next prcvision. This would say that if you are enrolled in AFDC and you have a chlld who thirteen years or older, you must participate in a mandatory job search and you nust accept employment. And if you are able-bodled, after a two-year period, yourre off; the benefits are terminated. This is a statewide initiative. Court-ordered Earnfare this would allow the circuit court to bring in an unemployed parent and mandate that they participate in the Earnfare Program and that part of the money that's being' derived from that would then go for child support. We also require *hat an AFDC parent who has a child from the ages of fkve to twelve be involved ln a mandatory job search program. And finallyr because We think the system 's broke - and I think most of us recognize that there 's a lot of problems wieh *he system that we now have no* only in the State of Illinois, bu* certainly in federal level and other states who have taken similar inltiatives - we say -- we sunset khe AFOC Program , and that sunset takes place January 1st, 1999. And during that interim period, we ask the Departmen: of Public Aid to come up with some ideas and solutions of what we night be able to utilize and replace the current program wlth something that truly does 10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL AGEEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislatlve Day February 9, 1995 Work . Madam President, be glad to answer any questions. I believe I've explained the provisions of the and welcome the debate.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Is there any dtscussion? Any discussion? Senator Hall.

Thank you, Madam President. Will the sponsor yield for a question?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Indicates he'll yield, Senator Hall.

A11 right. What program will replace the current APDC?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

Senator, there's nothing specific. A11 we ask is that the Department of Public Aid come up with some ideas and possible solutions to -- to the problem that we now have. Andy of course, tbe General Assembly Would be the final -- have the final Word .

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Hall.

Will the public be permitted to provide input concerning the formation of an alternative? PRESIDING OFFICER; (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

Cer*ainly.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Hall.

Well, is -- is this al1 in place now? 11  STATE 0F ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

We're attempting to do that today, Senakor. We'd like to see this bill pass, and part of the provisions would be the T guess you 're referring ko the sunset on the AFDC Pragram. Of course, it Would have to have passed the gouse and await the Governor's signature. At that particular point in time, then the Department Would, over several ncnthsr and even years, periods of time, give us some recommendations that we would ultimately enact. And during that process, obviously, the public would have an cpportunity for lnput.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Hall.

Well, this is going ko be a transitional rather than a permanent thin: right now , right?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) SenaEor Watson .

Well, I don't know you're referring the -- itself ar a particular proviskon in the bkll, Senator.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senatar Hall.

We'd like to see some welfare reform, but I'm meant I just don't want the train to pull out of the statton and.... And is Ehis going to be finalized in 1999, did you say?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

The provlslon of Ehis legislation involving the sunsetting of 12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 the current AFDC Program would be, yes, that particular date. But the rest of the provisions are not impacted by obviouslyr by the sunset proviston.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further questions? Further questions? Senator Rea.

Thank you, Madam President. A question of the sponsor.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Indicates he'll yield, Senator Rea .

Senator Watson, Senate Bill does contain any type of Worker protection language Which restricts the employers from using welfare recipients to displace union Workers?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

No, it does not. Do you have a particular provision in here you could cite? PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUEJ Senator Rea.

As this bill moves through the House, would you be Willing to take a lcok at that possible inclusion? And let me also ask you if, as a result, you would propose to the Governor that there be the incorporation of an anti-job displaeement provision in the Adninistrationts Waiver to the federal Department of Health and Bureau Services on that?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

Well, I've told many individuals that I'm willin: to sit down and discuss some changes in this legislation as progressesz 13  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLX REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Nith a traller bill or other provisions. I've talked to the -- I think the -- the advocates that you're referring in AFSCME about how this might impact the public aid workers at -- at the local level, or public aid workers in general, and I told them that I would be willing to sit down with them and discuss language that they may propose. If that's -- if that's what youfre referring to, Senator.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Rea.

Well, to speak to the bill, Senate Bill concerned about how fast a track that Senate Bill 10 is on. think we al1 know that there has to be welfare reform and we support that, and we do need to make sure that we make the transitlon from welfare to work. But I'm concerned whenever a forty-nine-page document is put together overnight, and there has not been the opportunity for people throughout the Staee of Illlnois to really make the input into this. I think we should slow this down and it would still be on fast track. We dre early into the Session and we should give thcse opportunities: because I don't think that we, as leglslatmrs, are perhaps the most experienced this area. thlnk there is -- there's a 1ot cf people out there that would like to make input, that would make recommendationsr whether they are workkng withfn the system or whether they are in some soclal service agency serving the public. There are many questionse just like Senator Hall was talking about earlier. You know, what wtll be the program that will replace the AFDC? And when you talk about will the public be included, Will it be on fast track again to that extent and not really be the proper planning? Because regardless of the best system that we put together, lt still is not going to be perfect. There's no way kt's golng to be perfect. So we need to look at many ccnsiderations as we are planning here. 14  STATE OF ILLINOTS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislatlve Day Pebruary 9, 1995 Por instance: when we talk about the family cap, will all AFDC applicants and reciplents have access to family planning servlces? When we talk abaut the court-ordered Earnfare, what impact will addkng new persons to the program have to the Earnfare Program which is currently experiencing problems? So the only thing, I think that most of us truly believe that there does need to be welfare reform, but let's try to put together the best package we can, rather than jumping in here and not taking into consideration all the different factors, and even with that, it will not be the best.

PRESIDING OFPICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Furkher discussion? Senator Geo-Karism

Madam President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate r I think the voters of Illinois are entitled to have the welfare programs end up as payroll prcgrams. We can't do that unless we make provision to have these young women who are unfortunate enough to get pregnant out of wedlock and have childrenr and yet they need help. They need also help to learn, to get some education so they can get a jcb. I can remember a young woman in my district who wrote to me and said to ner ''I was on Welfare for two years. finally got a job. got my self-respect back. Please don't 1et them close Fort Sheridanu, where she was working atr ''because noW feel like a Whole citizenn. I think a lot of these youngsters are unfortunate maybe their parents haven't cared but Ilve had people call ne Who've been on four generations of of public welfare and think it's horrible to try to make any improvements. Well, can tell you one thing: One of Ehe main reasons we have so many unfortunate people on these Welfare rolls is because they don't have much time for Learning; no one has cared. Well, we are caring. We are asking them to learn. We 're -- we 're making provlsion for them to learn, and 15  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Ehlnk this is a step in the right direction. We cannot keep going on a welfare-welfare program . We need payroll prosramsz and we're going to get payroll prograns if We help these young people get a sense of responsibility. I had one young Woman tell me she had four children. I said, HWho are the fathers?'' They lre a11 different. That's nct the Way to live. This is not America. This is a responskble country . We care about the less fortunate. But we have to institute a sense of needtng to be wanted as a citizen, not just as someone Who takes Welfare constantly Nithout any care about making any improvement or learning. And I certainly support this bill. I think it's a step in the right direckion and we should try it, and I'm a11 for it and ask everyone else to support it.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator del Valle. SENATOR dEL VALLE: Thank you, Madam President. The Calendar - today 's Calendar, Senator Watson - indicates that this is the 14th Legislative Day. What that means is khat in fourkeen legislative dayse you have brought to this Floor a bill that makes radical changes in AFDC. A bill that even tbe committee members, as has been the case with other committees, including the Education Committee, the committee members did not have an opportunity to see the amendment until the day of the committee hearing, where there was one hearing. There has been vkrtually no public input into this process in fourteen days. We say that We are goinç to, with this bill: sunset APDC, but there is no replacenent for it. We don't know what -- what's going to take the place of AFDC. And 1et me say that I'm one of the Members, With, I think, just about everyone in this Chamber, who wants to see radical changes in AFDC. We want to put people toWork. IWantaprogramthatguaranteesanopportunityfor job 1 : placement - an opportunity. And we're not talking about 16  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9: 1995 i guaranteeing a job, but at least an opportunity for job placement. I don't think that this bill does that. We needed to take time. This Body is ready to radically change public aid in this State, and this Body is ready to take the necessary time, until the end of this legislative Session, to do so. We don't have any problems with taking that time. We want that time. We wanE public input. Just yesterday, I talked to a representative from the Legal Assistance Poundation who told me that she was getting sone very positive responses from your committee members to suggested ! amendments to this bill. There are a nunber of amendments ehat have been discussed. Yetr here we are today with this bill on 3rd Reading, moving it right along. What is going on here? We are ! fast-tracking everything: and now we're saying that wedre going to ! sunset AFDC . Wepre not even mentloning khe component of Public Aid which is the most expensive component - the one that takes up the most funds within the Public Aid budget - and that's Medicaid. What are we going to do about Medicaid? What are We going to do abouk *he one billion dollars in that? Ar9 we going to sunset Medicaid also? We know it sunsets at the end of -- of thls Session. Have we come up with a plan that determines how wefre going to pay the hospitals and how we 're going to pay the doctors? Wedre taking time with that, aren 't we? We take the necessary time to determine how we 're going to take eare of doctors and hospitals and nursing homes, but the client - the individualz the single parentz the mom , the unemployed - no, we can't take time to determine how we're going to help them ge* a job. We candt Eake that time. This has to be fast-tracked. It certainly looks good . The newspapers will write a11 about i*. Thab slde of *he aisle wi1l say, ''We'r9 doing it. We're takinç these lazy people off of the welfare rolls.'' But I want everyone to know that this is an lrresponsible approach. There is no need Eo be voting on this bill today without having considered - at least considered - amendments 17 * STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9: 1995 ! in commiteee and given the public an opportunityy and the advocates an opportunity, and those sinqle moms an opportunity, to be heard . That is wrons. PRESIDINGOFFICER) (SENATORDONAHUE) 1 i Purtherdiscussion? Furtherdiseusslcn? SenatorGarcia. 1 SENATOR GARCIA: Thank you, Madam President. Will the sponsor yield for a question? PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Indicates hedll yield, Senator Garcia. SENATOR GARCIA: . Thank you. Senator Watson, in the pas: both the Department Lf 1 . Publie Aid and the Governor's Offtce were oppcsed to the family cap provisions of this bill. Did khey relate to you the reasons for their change in position regarding this issue? 1 ' PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson. SENATOR WATSON: We've -- we negotiated with the Governor's Office and, of course, even with Members on our side of the aisle, with the House, discussing the various provisions of this particular bill, : one of uhich is the personal responsibility prcvisicn that you've mentioned . The fact tbat we brought up the transitional child care provision, I thinkr had a lot to do With the support we 're getting from not only our caucus, but the House and the Governor's Office. The concern for helping that young mother stay employed by subsidizing ehild care for an additional ewelve monthsr if the money 's avaklable. PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Is that all? Senator Garcia. SENATOR GARCIA: Thank you. Senator Watsonr regarding the AFDC reekplent 18  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 prcvisions of the bill, are there any mandatory support services, such as child care, transportation, et cetera, for recipients, to ensure that theyr in fact, have a chance at getting off of welfare, going to school and finding a job? Any of those basic, essential things that will ensure a real that we achieve progress in that regard?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONKHUE) Senator Watson.

Yes. Thank you. It's spelled out specifically that the Department of Publtc Aid would be required to use any savings, which may result this whole, overall proposal, and put that money into, as mentioned before, the transitional day care, transportation needs, which obviously are an important and a eonsideration that oftentimes is forgotten, and obviously job training and education.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Garcia.

So that the answer is, maybe if there are savingsy there might be sonething, but proactively, there won't be anythlng to encourage people to facilitate that transitlon?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

Well, We aren't establishlng a new program here at a1k for those types of purposes, but we do say that if the money that is generally saved by initiating the proposals we have before us, we think yesr we agree - that there are some problems with those people Who are in -- an welfare, in poverty, and those problems revolve around transportatkon needs, child care -- subsidies, and education and job training. And we agree With you that that's an  STATE OF TLLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day Pebruary 9, 1995 emphasis that should be mader and that's Why it's in this particular piece of legtslatton.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Garclay bring your remarks to a close.

Thank your Madam President. I will do preclsely that. It is rather unfortunate that in this State, the words ''public aid'' and Hwelfare'' have come to mean somethkng bad and negative. They've almost become code words for scmething bad, when, in fact, it is important to recall that the part that is growing so fast in our State budget is the Medicaid budget, something that we have yet to grapple with this year about hoW we are going to meet the budget challenges to be able to pay those bills. Instead, we choose to blame single mothers who are dependent on AFDC and who depend on food stamps and on grants to help raise their chlldren to get such basic things like milk and food for their babies. Obviously, this is a prioriky matter for the Party on the other side af the aisle, but the fast-track proposal has prevented real public and open-minded and creative deliberations on this bill. Thousands of people will be affected; their lives Will be affeeted by this bill - over five hundred children and parents in the State of Illinois. The elimination of the AFDC program is bad. It is bad because no alternatlve has been put together yet. Instead, we are calling on the Department of Public Aid to do that, instead of legislating that through this Body, and through the Leglslature, we are sayin: that; by rule, the Department of Public Aid will do that. To conclude, Madam President - and T thank you for the the opportunity - I just want to say that this reform is shotgun welfare reform; that it doesn't have a clear vision. It has no compassion. It is punitive, and it Will be costly in the long-term Eo Ehe Eeate of Illinois. That's Why I look forWard to working wlth my colleagues on the Democratic Task Force for 20  STATE OE ILLINOIS 89TH GXNERAL XSSZkBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Medicaid and Welfare Reform, where we Will be honest, Ne will be realisttc about addressing Ehe public aid needs, but also tbe Medicaid and *he growlng Medlcald crisls in the State of Illincis, and coming up with real solutions that will involve people throughout the State of Illinois. Thank you.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) I will remind the Members that Senator Philip dld put the timer ony and I will be adhering to that. Further discussion? Senator Cullerton.

Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Senate. Senator Watson, am -- I have come to appreciate and -- and trust your sincerity in this issue. I nust say , initially I was cynical. I believe that your motivations are to break the cycle of poverty, and I can see where you might even become frustrated with the opposition. Let me qive your since I've done research on thls in the last year, some of the reasons why people are cynical. There's myths about publie aid. People are shocked when they hear the statistics. There 's a public aid program that we spend this year maybe 1.6 billion dollars on that's been rising at a dramatic rate - a hundred and eighty-six percent over the last twelve years that provides public aid for only sixty-seven thausand people in the State, and to talk about the issue of race, eighty-two percent of these people are of the same race. And it's a billion and a half -- over a billion and a half dollars. And, of course, talking abcut *he nurslng home issue. And there's been a report on the Governor's desk since November 1st, commissioned by the Department of Public Aidz which shows Where we can save over three hundred and -- two hundred and thirty-nine million dollars in that program , and We ought to dc i*. And it's fair, and we will do it. Bu* it's not on the fast track. Instead, we're fast-trackkng publtc aid. And -- let's just be honest. One of the concerns  STATE OF ILLIXUIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 it's just underlyfng this is the issue of race, because seventy-one percent of AFDC recipients are black. So, I do not and being very sincere - do not question your sincerity, and there's many things this that agree with. It's just the motivation that people ace cynical about. Now, the particular the particular efforts here to have a carrot-and-stick approach in my opinion, the carrcts are not enough . It's as simple as that. Having the family cap is just -- there's no* enough incentive for people to -- to not have these children before we can just cut out their money. If you ask people what percentage of AFDC recipients Who are parents are under the a9e of nineteen, ask them what percentage they think. I've -- I've done this this last week. Forty percent? Twenty-five percent? Sixty percent? I belleve kt's 3.7 percent. And yet, you'd think that the lmage that people have is that a1l these AFDC people are teenagers. It's a very small percentage of people that we're talkin: about, and lt's a very, very major concern because we're not helping them. BuE I'm just trying to give you some of the -- some of the reasons why people are cynical. And I certainly appreciate your efforts. Ifm goin: to vote Present cn the blll. think that there's more study that can be dcne to provide incentives for business to provide jobs for AFDC recipients. I don't think there's enough of that here. think we should take some time because it -- we've got plenty of time to -- to do this this Session.

PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Cullerton, bring your remarks to a closer please.

Well, -- I also appreciate the fact that wedre on a fast track, Madam President, so 1'11 bring my -- -- will finish right now. Thank you.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) 22  STATE OF ILLINOJS 89TH GEXERAL ASSXMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Further discussion? Further discussion? Senator Hendon.

Thank you, Madam President. And do uant to say Ehat Eruly appreciate you not abusing the power of the Chair, and I will limit my comments to the three-minute time that our honorable President has set. 1, too, am in favor of welfare reform . As a matter of factv under Senator Topinka - nou our Treasurer - I was able to pass a bill out of her committee to chan:e the Fccd Stamp Program: and I also have a couple of bills now that think would help out a great deal, by allowing the recipients receive their checks twice a month, raEher Ehan once a month, because it helps to -- them to balance their little, meager budgets and it helps to prevent crime. But I was told had to hold that 'cause it Wasn't going anywhere. Nowe just like Genator Cullerton, agree and do believe that Senator Watson is sincere in his desires to do somethlng about this terrible cycle that needs to be ftxed, but there are tWo Worlds out here, my friends. There 's the World that you create for people, and there's the real world. The real world down in a community such as nine, which is one of the poorest in the State, is that a lot of these young ladies cannct stay at home just can't do it. And I don't care what you regulate, I don't care what you leqislate; they cannot do it. And who 's going to suffer? The children are going to suffer. That's who 's gcing to suffer: the children. And that -- that's a shame. We cannot be so -- on such a fast track, on everything, especially When it deals with the easy targets. The poor women, the poor children, they're easy targets. And I'm just -- I'm just -- I just don't even know vhat to say. Why always pick on the llttle easy target? The Republican Party has shown its strength across the nation. Why not show your strength and pick on somg of *he big boys? But, no, you always plck the little easy target. The poor little children, the poor little mother, does not stand a chance and are 23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Leqkslatkve Day February 9, 1995 not going to survive. plead to you, my friends - I'm not shouting at you today and I hope you'll listen tc mee but sometimes seems like you don't llsten unless shouting - but am pleading to you. It seems lkke this Chamber, November 8th, compassion died November 8th, caring for humankind died November 8th, having a heart and a soul died November 8th. And yqu know what? I don't even came up for the prayer anymore. When I first 9ot here, as naive as I was, heard those great prayers. couldn't waity soon as heard them make the call, because wanted to get up here for the prayer. But you know what? don tt even come up for the prayer anymore because it is the height of hypocrlsye because as soon as the rabbi or the priest or the pastor slts down, everything he said about God and caring for mankind, and love and brotherhood: it goes straight down the tubes. So I just Wait and hold my -- my church and my prayer to the God that I love and al1 of us clain that we are w1th till get back home, because I tell you, my friends, the Lord ain 't in this Chamber anymore.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discusslon? Senator 5m1th.

Madam Chairman, and to a11 of my colleagues here the Senate, speak to you this morning out of the mintage of my heart, because we are a leglslakive Bodyr and it is out of your hearts that you make the deckskons for the people of the State of Illinois. There are so many people who are interested in this legislative Bodyr but they do not have the opportunity of coming into these particular Chambers, and they are dependent upon us Who come here and maintain these Chambers and speak out of the minkage of your heart for the people Whom you represent. And We are the spokesmen for people who cannot come into these Chambers and speak their concerns. was delighted here last Week -- thls -- past 24  STATE OE ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9: 1995 Week to see that we actually paid a privilege to our flag, which has been denled fcr, lo, these many years, and I've written about ask and request, because the flag is what we are representing here kn these Chambers. I'm hoping that we who are legislators, who are representing the many areas of the State of Illinois are taklng these things in serious consideratton. And we here today are talking in terms of people -- not -- not just we, but we are representing people who live in our many districts. We are voicing the sentiments of people who live in our diskric*s. And I'm hoping and praying to God, God knows I do# that as we talk about this particular area of concern here tcday, that you nct think in terms of your particular community, because you have people a11 over the State of Illinois who are suffering today, people who are living under the ground, that are -- that theydre waiting and have no way of living. But they are dependent upon usr who we are, here in this legislative Body here todayr that you dll think terms of them . Many of you are living in the suburban areas and people are very well-off, but they are suffering; still they are suffering. And there are people Who are living in other areas of the City of Chicago and the State of Illinois...

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Smith.

And I'm going -- Idm going -- stop - Who are not privileged to have what We have, where we are llving well. But I'm asking you today that as you think terms of your vote -- al1 you are so well-off. You are livtng well. Your people, your constituents are living well. BuE there are people who cannot live that Nell. And I'm asking you IIm asking you - that as you cast your vote here today, that you think not only of yourselfr but you think in terms of the people - the toEal people - of the State of Illinois. 25  STAYé OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY 1 REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 They're wanting to vote. Theydre wantlng to have better Ways of llfe. And I'm asking you that in casting your vote, think in terms of not just yourself, but think in terms of the people of I ! the State of Illinois. Thank you, Miss -- Madam Chairman. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) I Thank you. Miss -- Senator Smith. I Will remind the Membership to please look at the -- the timer at the top, and I will cut you off from this point on. I'm sorry. I dcn't want to do that, but we have to. Next, Senator Berman.

Thank you, Madan President. Questions of the sponsor... PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) ' It was timed perfectly, Senator Berman.

I was tald I could get cn the 12 o'clock newsr so let's drag this out a feW more minutes. Senator Watson... Tha*'s ri:ht. Senator Dunn deserves that. Drawing your attention to Learnfare provisions in here. That's a -- a plan that's to encourage children of Welfare parents to attend school. I am -- accordin: to our... Wculd you explain how this is supposed to work? What does the blll do?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watscn.

Well, as I explained earlier, those individuals Who are enrolled in AFDC, and they have children ln *he first to sixth grade, and they have a ehronic truancy problem, we say that those lndividuals should go to a soclal service agency at the local level and Work with those folks in maintaining or trying to create I an a*mosphere by whlch those young kids, from the grade -- age -- onP through six, Will go back to school. We think that's important. We think that Ehey should be in school. And that's i 26  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLX REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9: 1995 what this dces.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Berman.

Well, I agree with you, and I think everybody agrees that they ought to be in school. What is the process? I see that there's a provision in here regarding protective payees. Does that mean that someone other than the -- for example, the mother, whc 's on AFDC, gets the check?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

That would be the social service agency at the local level: protective payee.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Berman.

Thank you. Hcw does -- how does Public Aid learn that Mlss Smith's -- not Senator Smlth's - hypothetical Miss Smith's child is not attending school regularly? What's that process? HoW are we -- is this a requirement Lf school reporting now to Public Aid?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

This is a school policy of what would be considered irregular attendance. The school would notlfy the Department -- the local agency.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Berman.

.. . funded -- this is a new unfunded mandate to schools to report regarding children of AFDC parents, as to their attendance. I 27  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legistative Day February 9, 1995 Is that correct?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watscn.

Well, as you know: the school funding is based on attendance: and I would assume that most people Would like to have -- or most loeal school districts would like to have their numbers increased. Truancy takes away from those numbers, obviously, and this Would help them in tha: regard.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Berman.

So I gather that from your answer, the answer is, yesr this is a -- a new requirement for schools to report the attendance of AFDC children eo Public Aid. Moving on...

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Very briefly, Senator Berman.

Three minutes alreadyr Madam President? All right. I am told - - and I#m not a member of the committee that thls was heard in# but on -- according to our analysisr I have a lis: here of probably thirEy organizations, including the Catholic Conferencez the United Methodist Chureh, Eutheran Family Services, Voiees for Illinois Children - a khole list cf a couple of dozen other groups - that are opposed to Ehis provision. Did they see this amendment before it was offered in eommlttee?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

Staff of the committee had the amendment the day beforez or the evening before - very late in the evening, might say. But as far as knowing whether those advocate groups had this. I -- I 28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 don't know. It's been -- it's certainly been out there for the last Week, since the committee hearlng last -- last week.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator Shaw. Senator Jonesr for what purpose do you rise?

Thank you, Madam President. And dan't see the Senate President on the Floor, but perhaps he would reconsider that move to place a three-minute limit on debate or ask questions. The reason why I'm suggesting that ycu do that, because in having three minutes, what's going to happen, you're going to krigger more individuals to ask questions because -- in that period of time. We are already shutting out the public from having this input into the committee process. And the Senate, and the House, in particular, as well, this is where you debate critical issues which are going impact on people. But by allowing *he Membership here only three minutes, whlch is not ample time, all you're going to do is just string it out. I would suggest very strongly that a Member be -- have at least ten minutes to ask the proper questions so they can get a follow-throughr and in this way, we can cut down the time, rather Ehan continue to shut out individuals who have very pertinent questlons to ask on this issue . PRESIDING OFFICERJ (SENATOR DONAHUE) The limit on a three-minute debate, Senator Jonesr is not unusual and has been around for many years. Senator Jones.

Iive been here a number of years too, Madam President, and it Was much more time than this. But what I'm saying to you, this is a very important bill. The public -- as I look at the analysisr all those organizations Who wanted to have input were more or less shut out from having proper input into the drafting of this very 29  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 important piece of legislatlon. Now we are attempting to debate this issue. wculd suggest to the Senate President that more time be allowed for the Members. You're already shutting out the publlcr but don't shut out their representatives here in this Body. And that is what I an suggesting to you.

PRCSIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) I'm sure he'll take under consideration. Further discussion? Senator Shaw.

Thank -- thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Madam President. The -- the -- would the sponsor yield?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Indicates he'll yield, Senator Shaw.

IIm not quite elear on What we are replacing this withr When we wipe thls cut - AEDC out. Is there any prcposals on the drawing board?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senatcr Watson.

Well, some of those proposals were being debated right here before usy as far as changing the AFDC as we've known what we dc in this partlcular provislon is that January 1st, 1999, we are saying a aurtain comes down on the program of AFDC, and during that interim periody we would ask the Department of Public Aid to come to us wikh possible suggestions and -- and, of course, the public, obviously, and Members of the General Assembly y as to what kind of prograns we would want to do and implement tc replace AFDC as we now know it. That, of courser would then come before this Body as -- as a piece of legislation, and hopefully we would see change, and major change, and the General Assembly would support  STATE OP ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 1995

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Shaw.

The -- the other questlcn is: How much of this AFDC money is federal dollars?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watscn.

It's fifty percent. And whlle you've asked that, 1et me just bring up something. Someone seemed to thlnk that this was an insignificant amount of our budget. It is one billion dollars. AFDC is -- is ncw one billion dollars - with a

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Shaw .

The -- my understandlng that there has been -- even though we are attempeing to wipe this out on a fast tracke there's no application been made to the federal government for any additional program . Is that correct?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

Yes, that is correct. Most of the provisicns in thls legislation would require a federal waiver, and there is language in here which would initiate that waiver process, lf thls bill passes and if is slgned by the Governor.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Shaw.

Well, to the bill: Certainly, 1, too, like mos: of us heres think that there should be some changes in AFDC as We have known over the years, but certainly I can't imagine the this Body 31  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 l I I aktompting to wipe out AFDC and not havins the foreslght or the i ! will to make application fcr an additional -- or come up with an I I additional proçram that would be lonq-term , or short- term . We are ! I -- we are just dokn: something here on *he -- on the spur of the 1 I I moment. And why we are doing this is because those young people I that we are attempting to take money from out there - ehe children I I I - they don't bave a -- they don't have a lobbyist down here. They I I don't -- they're not like the big companies, the corporate I I companies of Anerlca or of this State Who have a lobby -- a 1 lobbyist down here who can come and talk to individual ! leglslators. I think that those people need a lobbyist dcwn here. But those of us on this side of the aisle, and some of you on that I side of khe aisle, you should become the lobbyists for khose I I children. We have... I ! PRESIDING OPFICER) (SENATOR DONAHUE) I I Senator Ehaw . I ! SENATOR SHAW: j I We have crime -- yesr Madam Chairman. We have crime running I I rampant in the streetsy and now We're going to attempt to -- I I I guess al1 ofusgoingtoneedgunsinourhandWhenWewipethis out. That looks like to me what it's going to be, and I ask a No 1 ! I vote on this b111. j I PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) I Further dlscussion? Senator Trotter. I . j SENATOR TROTTER: 1 Thank you very -- thank you very much, Madam President. Would the sponsor yield?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Indicates he'll yieldr Senator Tro*ter.

Yes. Fine. I'm trying not to be redundant. There's been a j lo* of debate on this already, but -- and speclcically you 've I I I 32  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRTPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 mentioned that there -- there are some alternative programs. We menelcned brlefzy in -- in the committee procgss that the only real Way to answer this problem and to replace this is that we need jobs. Is there a concerted effort to get jobs here in the State? Do we see that much growth comlng in the Stake that we're going to have four hundred thousand new jobs for our eitizens that are gotng to be cut off thls program?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

Well, Senator, most of us - I guess there kas thirty-four of us - felt strongly abcut that yesterday and voted in -- in behalf of the repeal of the Scaffold Act. That will create an atmosphere in this State that will be conducive to attracting jobs. I don't know whether you supported that or not, Senatcry but we feel that that was an important step to ereate work and for the people ue represent. And T'm sure that a 1ot of those people will live in your dlstrict.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Trotter.

... the -- the training programs we're going to have is going to have carpentry programs; wepre going to actually have some real, llve training, not just training people hoW to work cash registers at McDonald'sy and those kind of things. So the jobs you're going to create by this repeal of the Scaffolding Act is going to give these great construction jobs. And youdre saying, agaln, that youlre gcing to brlng these programs eo -- to Our communitiesr as well?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

33  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 ! Wedon'tneedtobecreatinganymore job programs. There's 1 enough cf them out therealready. We--We'M9gotprogramsin 1 place, Senatorr to traln and educate and prepare people for work. 1 We have those programs there now. That's what -- that's what this is al1 about. And we Want to see people access those programs, and take advantage of thcse programs. And we think they will if I we take the positive step and -- and support and pass legislaticn I such as this. j PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) I Senator Trotter . I SENATOR TROTTER: I I So then, you fre an advocate for raising the minimum wase. ! You're suggesting and yeu Will contact your colleagues in -- in I Congress that ycu will raise the minimum wage so we can have I people with not only jobsy but good-paying jobsz viable jobs, in I Whlch they can raise thelr families and become meaningful individuals in our society. so' is that what you are saying you're--you'rewillingtodoaswellras#trailerto something ' 1 like this?

PRESIDING OFPICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

Well, that's -- that's not part of this legislationy Senator, and I would refer to -- waiting to see what kind of legislation that would be brought forth before I would make any kind of commitment to that. PRESIDING OFFICER; (SENATOR DONAHUE) FurEher discussion? Senator Trotter.

Well -- well, qranted, that's not part of the legislation, but there should be a plan that should go along with this legislation. And so what I'm asking, in your lons-*erm planninq, is that what 34 ! ! STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9: 1995 you are suggesting that should be done? There 's a 1ot of things that are not in this legislation, which is why we have so many I people against it. Butwejustwantedtoknowwhat--whathave 1 I I you been thinking as far as in trying to resolve the -- the -- the aftermath of -- of what this legislation can do, you know , because this legislation will not necessarily just be the -- the resolve to our problems. Every year, here in -- in the State of Illinois, and -- and also in this country, we come up with these themes or these battle cries. Last year it was like ''let's get tough on crimeu. This year it's let's -- ''let's get tough on welfare'' Let's get -- ''let's get tough on -- on education''. Wellr fine. I think what you 're doin: with this is you 're actually undermining getting tough on crime, because you're goin: to create crime by the passage cf this klnd of legislation without a program in place. Now, if I may, just -- and final -- something to think about when we talk about putting dollars into health care and into child care. The report came out Monday that here in this -- in thls country, our child care system is one of the worst that we have anywhere in the world; that the children are nct learning, not learning enotionally. So When you think about, in plannlng, and when you start planning again, put some of those dollars into child care; that you ensure that you butld in those prosrams and also get quality people in them , would have child care prcgrams on a twenty-four-hour basis, because people have to work on a1l shifts as well. And... PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator Fawell. SENATOR FAWELL: Thank you very much, Madam President. A 1ot of you know that I have worked on various task force and councils and What have you. In factz right ncw I'm -- I'm cn the Council of Children: the Council on Aging, and the Council on Mental Health and 35  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislatkve Day February 9, 1995 ! Developmentally Disabled, so that covers just about everybody. I And I'd like to just give you a few statistics. Ycur side is I rlght over there when you say that three-fcurths of the monies i 1 right now in public aid goes to nursing homes and to hospltals, out of our Public Aid budget. And I have just introduced a bill based, Senator Cullerton, on that report that you referred tor and if you would like to cosponsor that bill, I would be more than happy to. And it does do some of the things to try and keep people out of our nursing homes. And I'm sure, if anybody over there have nore ideas on how to get people out of the hospitals and lnto private care programs, we would be more than happy to listen to it. But I would like to give you a statistic that a lot cf you, perhaps, do not realize. First of all, when you talk about welfare and -- and you seem to think -- at least a 1ot of you seem to think we are -- we are doing this because i: is a minority population. In this State and throughout the nationr the vast majority of people who are on welfare are not minority. They are white. And that includes this State. The average age of a teenage mother in our State, right now, is fourteen years old. That means she çot pregnant ln eighth grade. Three-fourths of those girls will have another child by the time she should be a senior, if we do no* get her back in hlgh school. And she has now entered into a system that w1l1 be almost impossible for her to get out. Approxkmately forty-five percent of those girlsx, again, will have another chlld before she 's twenty-one, and that's where our low birth weigh: babies are coming from. That's where our -- our high infant mortality rate is coming from . And if we don't stop this now, we are causing the death of children who are yet i unborn and we are delegating a group of young girls, fourteen years - and I have seen them as young as nine, and lt was a white, : 1 suburban glrl Ehat I saw in that condltion, nine months pregnant - I we are condemning them to a life of poverty that they Nill never I I 36 !  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 get out of. This is an excellent bill. There may be scme things that can be added to but it's certainly a good start and long overdue. And I think we al1 ought to vote Aye.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator Collins.

Thank you, Madam President. First of all, 1et me just say, Senator Watson, commend you for the efforts that you 've made, and and I'm really grateful. It's unfortunate that this bill is on what you call a fast track, but at least you have generated some awareness and -- and coneerned about the need to reform the welfare system. Even though there are a 1ot of flaws in thls particular blll, there are some good things in it also. Most certainly, some of this -- part of thls billr the things that I've worked on and been trying to even get people on this side of the alsle to support for the last five or six years. The self-reliance plan is almost identicaly except you've made some changes in that we need to change and amend: because you made it punitive. And that was not the intent of the original 3111 1999 that E -- that I sponsored. I would hope that you Would be open to -- as yau said that you would do, those amendments. And when bill get to the Governor's desk, that the Governor will, in fact, amendatorily veto those portions out and look to the trailer bill where we will have an opportunity to put some amendments on and amend the best portlons of those bills into this partkcular bill, in fact, this has to be -- there's something sacred about this particular bill getting to the Governor's desk. There are a 1ot of weaknesses and things that's not covered that I would hope that you would cover in this bill. You cannot talk about breaking *he wglfare eycle unless you include the fathers and, Fawell, the teen fathers. We have made efforts in the past; there are efforts this bill to address the problems with teen mokhers, but there are 37  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislatlve Day February 9, 1995 two sides to Ehls problem: the teen fathers. There 's nothlng in this bill that address that issue. have some amendments Would hope that you would consider, because two people that's involved here and the father should have as much responsibility as the mother. There are other problems with this bill that we need to address. Bu* in terms of getting rid of the system, you should have got rid it yesterday. Department of Public Aid, the way we have today, for many the communities, a form of slavery, even worse than slavery before on on some poor communities because lt enslaves the mind and *he spirit of these people, generation after generation, and We nust bring a stop to dcn't care what anybody say. This is not a perfect bill. I'm golng to vote Present, because there are an awful lot of flaws in it and it sends the wrong message. But we go* to do something. And Ehank you for your efforts.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator Tom Dunn.

Madam President. .. . Somebody mentioned cynicism a little earlier, and I want to tell you that the roadway to cynlcism is like the roadway to hell: Itls paved with good intentions, but a two-way street. Last year when had a bill that passed cut of here almost unanimously that ended welfarer had kratning involved in 1*, went over to the House, it was arrogantly killed. None of these people that see listed on on my sheet whc are against this btll bothered to talk to me. They didnlt have to. They could kill in the House. Well, today time to do somethinq. And where have those people been? There wasn't any fast track last year. Those people had a whole year Ea come up with a plan. They haven't. When I look at the statistics that show that since the time I came here eight years ago, that welfare has risen from 3.7 mlllion famllles to five mllllon families: lt 38  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 makes me cringe. And When see the statistics talking about black men and women in our society that were reported the other day the Sun-Times that says that for every African-American male with a college degree, there are fifty-nine in jail; that the homicide rate fcr black men under twenty-five is eiçht times that of the general population; that every forty-six seconds of the school dayr a black child drops out of school. we were generals, we'd be replaced with those kinds of statistics. And we are generals, and it's time to da something. It's time to reverse the process. It's time to self-impose on ourselves change. Today is the day to do

PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR DONAHDE) Further discussion? Senator Sieben.

Thank you, Madam President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. I simply rise support of the legislation because too, feel that the time has ccme to not only reform, but to replace a system that has failed for deeades and has done nothing more than create generation after generation of dependency across this State and across this countryr not only among African-Americans, but among German-Americans and Swedish-Americans and Hispanics-Americans, Asian-Americans. It's not a racial issue. It's across all of our culture. You know: our founding fathers wrote in the Declaration of Independence that we are created by -- that a1l men are created equal and that we are endowed by our Creator with certain inallenable rights and among those are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And the key word in that statement is ''pursuit''. The pursuit of happiness. And EhaE word ls an acEion uord that say: ue need to do gomething. Tells us that happiness doesn't come from a stamp, that happiness doesn't come from a program , thaE happlness doesn't come from a taxpayer's handout. We need to be concerned about 39  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 I ! I opportunities for Americans to pursue happiness, because I dan't believe that governmenE can glve away happiness. This legislation addresses those financial incentives that for too long have encouraged laziness, that for too long have eneouraged single I ! parenthood. This legislation is pra-family; it's pro-work. And I it's pro-values that have made Amerlca a great civilizaticn. ! Recently heard a speaker say that our clvilization cannot long : endure when we have thirteen-year-olds having babies, fifteen-year-olds killing each other, seventeen-year-olds dying of AIDS and eighteen-year-olds graduatlng from high school w1th a diploma that they can't read . Well, ehis legislation addresses some of those concerns and takes scme action about them. This ( legislation makes changes that I think many and the majority of ! Americans feel are long overdue. And many Americans feel these changes make a good deal of common sense. Vote Yes. ! PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) I Further discusslon? Senator Palmer. ! SENATOR PALMER: I i Thank you, Madam President. To khe billt I am in favor of the State of Illinois assisting low-income Illinois citizens to I become self-sufficient, which is very different from the punitive : measures imposed on poor pecple by this bill. Fast track apparentlyhascometomeanandbegearedtoselectivepopulations and toward what is politically expedient, rather than uhat makes j sense. The question here is: Whak does a family need to be self-sufficient? Number onew work or lncome. This Body, and especially the other side of the aisle, has resisEed almost every effork to bring jobs bills Eo Ehls Floor and has not revised Earnfare in any Way that Rakes any dlfterence to poor people. Secondly, it means for families, that education has to be adequate to the requirements of the job market. This Bcdy has refused to entertain the issue of adequate and equltable educational funding. 40  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Thirdly, a family needs healEh care - access to it, affcrdability. This Body has refused to consider, for example, the bill that Senator Smith has been carryin: for the last five years, which would have addressed health reform in the State of Illinois. Housing - affordable housing: This Body has opposed, mostly on the other side cf the aisle, measures to provide affcrdable housing for Illinois citizens who happen to poor. Eifthly, transportation; This Bodye especially the other side of the aisle, refused to support legislation that would have helped to bring ISTEA in scme measure to the State of Illinois in order to support public transportation. This bill could have meant something; there could have been a package put together. There are already -- and there has been resistance to these - we could have supported Project Chance in a different way. We could have supported adult education and GED in community colleges, better scholarships to universities. Community business and civic organizations could have been invited to be part of this. We could have given home care workers the money that they need to provide care in homes. This bill is a bridge eo nowhere for thousands of Illinois' youngest and poorest citizens. My fellow legislators, beware, beware.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator Butler. END OF TAPE TAPE 2

Thank you very muchr Madam President. Ladies and Gentlemenp 41  STATE OE ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 there's a great deal of -- of noise being made about this is a in factz a a fast-track plece of legislatlon. submlt to you that more -- that we have had - we, I say legislators over the last thirty or forty years - have had generations - not years, not fourteen days as been pointed out, but generations to solve these problems. We've had generations to plan; wedve had generations after generations wha have contributed money, hoping some desperate way some solutions could be found. Al1 we've had is more programs and more failures. A1l we 've had is more billions of dollars spent on some sort of elusive solutions and we 've had more failures. We've had more shattered lives, more failures. We've had a chanee, and I say we going back -- al1 -- you know, you who have been on -- on this -- in this Body for many years can search your own consciences. This is not new. You 've heard a11 this over and over again. A11 *he prattle about how new this is and -- and some of the flne points, you a11 know in your own consciences exactly -- knew this was coming. Xou've known for five years. And, Senator Trotterr recognize the implied threat ln in What you said, that unless we put more money, there is going to be more crime; unless we have more programs, there going to be more people jails; unless we spend more money, there is going to be more delinquency. My question to you and a1l of those who are objecting to this program is very simple: Tell us how much money is enough. Ycu 're al1 dwelling cn money. How much ls enough? Wedre spending billions now. Is five billions enough? Ten billions? A hundred billion dollars? What do you need to solve Ehe problem? We're -- we're chasing dollars; We dre spending money, and We -- We're trying to do it -- do it out of the kindness in our in our heares, and ue 're failing. So I suggest the other side get together, decide hok much money is necessary, and maybe we can approach it in in that manner and come to same solution. This bill is a start. It doesn't solve 42  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 ( I a1l of the problems, and picking it apart is not going to solve problem. All I'm saying, Ladies and Gentlemen objecting this I program : puk up or shut up. Tell us hoW much money We need; tell us how you're going to do it, and let's get rid of the threats about more crime: et cetera. I support this program. I wculd suggest it is a start. Let's do it and stop whining.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator Jones.

Thank you, Madam President. Will the sponsor yield?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Indicates he'll yield, Senator Jones.

Senator Watson, y'ou indicated in your opening renarks about the programs of the sixties whlch brought us here. Could you tell what you -- you are specifically talking about?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Watson.

Well, those -- those proqramsr Senator, wete commonly known as HEhe great societyI', and they Were initiated during the 1960s to - - to hopefully put an end to poverty as We know it. I think What you've seen in the last thirty-five years has not been a Whole great deal of success out of the efforts of the wsixties.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Jones.

Yeah. Thank youz Madam President. Now I have a clarification. I believe What you are talking about as we debate welfare, you're talking about the big Medicaid program that cane about. But 1eE me refresh your memory, if youdre old enough to remember, that prior to the Mediaaid program: if you had a parent, 43  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 you had a relative who was ill, if you dldn't have any money in your family, then you would use the ''Eskimo theory'': you 'd sit them out on the ice 'cause they would simply die. There was no program to take care of health care benefits for the elderly. And we a11 -- I'm glad, Senator Fawell, I wanked I appreciate Ayour remarks for dispelling *he myth of welfare in the country and the State of Illinois. The Public A1d budget, Senator Watson, you talk about the AFDC line item is about one billicn dollarsy but khe other portion of that billion dollarsr which is the Medicaid portion, goes to nursing homes. It goes tc the aged and disabled -- the blind and disabled persons. But when We attempted to reform that piece, your side resisted. 'Cause I understand the pharmaceutical induskry, which thieves off the poor. understand the Medical Society and a11 its clinics. That's where *he bulk of the Public Aid budget gces. When -- When -- Nhen the Director said before the Appropriations Committee, you fre talking about saving millions of dollars, he said, ''Just lncrease audiking of the providers and you Will save hundreds of millions of dollars.'' But instead we come with a fast-track piece of legislation that is only going to touch about one percent of those on the AFDC line item. We want reform , but we don't want to use a meat ax on the poorr who do not have people here represent them. In my district, for example and I have some of the Wealthiest people in the.State of Illinois have the nursing homes. But do you -- do you know, Senator Watson, the Morgan Park-Beverly communlty, in Ehose nursing homes, eighty percent of them are Public Aid - welfare. But -- but you don't Want to deal with that part; you want ko make the public Ehink that this 7.4 billion dollars is goin: to some poor inner-city child and mother. That's not Public Aid. And I appreckate youp Senator Fawell, for least having the -- the decency to be honest with the people. But let's no* pick on the poor just because they don't have a 44  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Leglslative Day February 9: 1995 of lobbyists ln Springfield to represent them . We a1l Want to break that cycle of dependency, but there 's a way to do it and it's a time to have input. We're gotng to have public hearinss with our Task Eorce on Medicaid and Welfare Reform , to come up wkth a program to solve this dependency. But let's nct take a neat ax on those individuals who don': have anywhere else to go. And I think we are supposed to be more humane than that as it relate to the poor people across the State of Illinols.

PRESIDING OFEICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussicn? Senator Raica.

Thank you, Madam President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. I guess, flrst of all, I have to addr/ss N scme issues. One conment that was made is that no one was included and a lot of people were excluded. Senator Jonesy your Members were -- were told ahead of Eime that that welfare bill was coming to your -- or, ccmin: to the committee, and as a matter of factr we delayed lt twenty-four hours, and that your staff had twenty-four hours to come up with an amendment, and not one amendment was offered by any Members of your -- of your party, at all. And, Senator Garcia, you sound as if you were not included in the process. If you were not included, it was because you decided to be -- yourself to be excluded. No debate was denled. Everyone that was there was allowed tixe to speak, whether you were for it or against it. Everyone was given the opportunity, and finally, afterward there were no questions of any Members of *he committee or wktnesses, we took a roll call. I think What we have to look at is the term ''fast track''. And maybe people are really concerned about thetern''fasttrackdv andtheylreprobablymore j concernedabouttheissue ofwhichdirection is the train going in 1 and is it going in the rlgh: direction. Up until a few speakers I I ago, I've -- I've noticed that -- a sense Of Cooperation between 45  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislatlve Day February 9, 1995 parties on -- on this Floor and not the act that we normally do, and that is of confrontation. There's been mcre cooperation. Senator Cullerton mentioned Senator Watson's commitment, and I applaud Senator Cullerton for that. Senator Watscn 's probably the best sponsor because he doesn 't look at welfare through eyes that are looking at colors, but rather he looks at welfare as an issue, which this Body should be looking at it. I applaud the Members that didn't point fingers, bu* rather reached out their hands and offered to help. As Chairman of Public Hea1th and Welfare, I've asked President Philip for his cooperation in setting up hearings Ehroughout the next five weeks, and putting a vehicle bill together to facilitate the Work done as a result of those meetings. Senatcr Philip has agreed and have staff do exactly that. Senator Collins was the first Member to cross the aisle this morning, to come to Senator Watson and myself, and not to articulate her opposltion to anything that was going on, but rather to offer her support for a much-needed change in the welfare system. Senator Collins has set up a meeting tomorrow, not in my officey but in her office, in which I'm soing to attend, that she has people coming in from various agencies to speak about welfare reform. We 're seeing possibly the very first step in a long process of a system that's been screwed upr as Senator Butler has eloquently put, for generations has been screwed up . Wedre not going to fix it with this one bill, but it's a start. It's definitely a start. This is not a time to derail a train, if we look at it through the eyes of fast track. Thls is a time for everyone to get on board and offer their input, which they have never been denied. T hope by our last days in Session wedre -- be able to pass through this Body more changes that are needed in the Welfare system. I have eight amendments that I offered to Senator Watson this morning, and he explained if we do thatr we're going Eo stop everything that we set ou* to do, and I honor that. He 46  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 was sincere about it. These are changes that Senator Cullertcn suggested that We do, about the one -- one change that cther Members of this Body have offered. These are the amendments that people came to me and says, ''Can you put these amendments But I'm not going to stop what's -- what's proceeding through this Body, and I don't think any of us should . And rather Ehan polnt fingersr maybe let's all get together webre going to have meetings over the next five weeks - we join And this may not be the true answer, and there are changes that -- needed in Senate Bill 10r but this is not a -- a day that We should stop and say and start pointing fingers, 1'Wel1, we weren't included in the input; we didn't have this; we didn't have that.' Let's just join together and support Senator Watson because he 's been doing this throughout h1s term ln or, throughout his his being a State Senator. It's needed changes, and -- and I wculd just solicit your support for Senate Bill 10.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Hallr for a second time.

Thank -- thank you, Madam President. I'm golng to give you three ''besi'. gcing to be sincere; I'm going to be brief; and then be seated. The thing that I've just been reading through here is that Illinois' child support collections are low in comparison to there's Michigan, Massachusetts, and Wisconsin. According to recent management by the Illinois Auditor General, State collected two hundred and two million out of billion. Just think of that. And the next -- and it says another thing here, too: The amendment only applies to professional license and not drivers license. Think of thak, if everybody would would go in this. The thing that I Wanted to call to your attention is that we got to start eollecting, doing better than we have. Thank you. 47  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH CENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) I Thank your Senator Hall. Senator Watson, to close.

Well, thank you, Madam President, and I appreciate the debate that has taken place. Appreciate the comments. I am sincere in my efforts here and I -- I know all of you are also . There are some things that I would like to address on some comments that were made concerning some of the issues. First of all, when people say that there's nct someone here advccating or -- or f lobbying for -- for our poor people or fcr the -- for the infants and young people of this State who may be less fortunate, the comment was made that we had eighteen groups in the Public Hea1th Commlttee to discuss this issue, and those people are sincere individuals who are, most cases, worried and concerned about the kids. And that's -- I think that's great and that's fine. And most of those advocate groups probably don't support what welre about to do here, or at least, what I hope We're about to do, but they are sincere and they are here in -- in general, for the poor people of this Stater less fortunate, and the -- and youngsters. When we talk about hunaneness -- well 1et me -- let me make one thing. The ''fast track'' is probably the most overused wcrd that we 've got in this process. Unfortunately, that's the term we've -- we've decided we'11 name five particular issues, and welfare reform was certainly one of them. This is not a fast-track issue. Anybody who's been around here for any length of time knows that most of the lssues that we've -- kha: are in Ehis partlcular provision have been debated before, and many of you have supported - on b0th sides of the aisle - have supported many of the concepks that are in this particular piece of legislation. So this is -- really, truly isn't necessarily, as you would like to call it, ''fast track''. It -- there has been debate on this in the past - I opportunity for public input. In my office, in my district, I 48  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRTPT 14th Legislative Day February 1995 people come in because they do know of my interest in welfare reform and my concern about what I think is khe generaticn afker generation after generation of dependeney that we in government have created have come in me and talked to me abcut these issues. So this is not something that's been taken liçhtly or something that we've just al1 of a sudden decided to throw out here on this particular day. But when you talk about humaneness, and most the pecple who did that on this Floor today, the humaneness is the -- is the self-esteem -- the lack of self-esteem that people have when they're just stuck in the quagmire of poverty and welfare. That's the inhumanness of it all. And wbat's been our answer? And we talk about ''the great scciety'' and the throwing money at ity and everything that we can do to try to get these people elevated to a point which they can help themselves and provide for themselves and their families. What have we done? Wedve thrown a lot of money at lt. We created a lot of programs. And those programs, many of them , are still there, but don lt thlnk we've stepped forward many different times over the last thirty-five years. You go into your neighborhoods and you ask them. ''What Wculd benefit me more is a job, an opportunlty.'' And that's what we Want to do, ls ereate opportunities. And we Want -- We want -- we want to help the people who need it. There are people on welfare today who deserve itz. and they deserve our support and will get it; but there are many who don 't. And that's What we're trying to do here. Those able-bodied individuals who could provide for themselves, who should make responsible decisions - that's what we're addressing . We dcn't want be punitive. Senator Collins, you were the sponsor of Earnfare, the legislation that created opportunities for many people, and I appreciate your comments and your remarks. And that's the kind of effort we need from both sides of the aisle, as Senator Raica mentioned ccoperation - because we 49  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 haven 't solved the problem and won't solve the problem by throwing more money at Somebody, unfortunately, mentioned the race issue. Now, as I mentioned the other day , come on downr come on down to my -- my district and 1'11 show you poverty. Sure, you've go* problems in your area, and I understand that, but this is not a race issue. One county in my district had the highest teen preqnancy of any county in the State. That's in good southern Illinois. Where the sun always shines, right? We've gct problems down there. It's not just one particular area of this State. Over the half of the births in Cook County were to Medicaid individuals. A third of the births downstate are to Medicaid individuals. That's part of the problem in the -- in the Medicaid budqet. And we did try to address that last year by the concept called ''managed caren. We made an effort to do somethlng about it. And that part of the budget, I agree, is out of conkrol totally out of control. We tried to do somethlng abcut it; the federal government rebuked us. And we'll make an attempt to try to do something more about But just try remember that wedre not trying to be punitive; we just want to create an atmosphere by which people -- that have the opportunlty and the will and the ability to help themselves. That's what we're trying to do. And we want people to understand in this State that you're going to be held responsible for your actions. And that's what we're that's what this is all about. Thank you, Madam President. Appreeiate an Aye vote.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) The question shall Senate Bill 10 pass. Those favor will vote Aye. Opposed, Nay. The voting is open. Have a1l voted who wish? Have al1 voted Who Wish? Have all voted who wish? Have a11 voted who wish? Take the record. On that question, there are 43 Ayes, 8 Nays, voEing Pregent. Senate Bill 10y having received the required constituticnal majorityr is declared passed. 50  STATE OF ILLINOIS I 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 On the Order of 3rd Reading is Senate Bill 17. Senator Cronin? No. Senate Bill 19. SenaEor O 'Malley? Read the bill, Mr. Secretary. SECRETARY HARRY: Senate Bill 19. (Secretary reads title of bill) 3rd Reading of the bill. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Tom Dunn: for what purpose do you seek recognition? SENATOR T. DUNN: Point of personal privilege, for a moment, if I may. PRESIDING OFEICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) State your point please. SENATOR T . DUNN: You knowy I heard several kimes, from the other side of *he aisle, a call for caoperation. I think that's good. I think you really cught to rethink that three-minute rule, and 1$11 tell you why. Because under the rules, we have twenty-six people, we lre en*itled to seventy-eight minutes on every debate. We shouldn't talk seventy-eight minutes on every debate: but on important bills, we ought to have more than three minutes. Thts ts a deliberative Body . PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) . Senator O 'Malley. SENATOR O'MALLEY: Thank you, Madam Chairmany and Members of the Senate. Senate Bill l9, as amended: is known as the Charter School bill. This bill authorkzes up to forty-five charter schools kn the State of Illinois - fifteen in Chicago, fifteen in the suburban and collar county areas, and three dcwnstate. 1,11 just hit scme of the highlights here, because we've been through this before, as -- as most of us know. But 1et me just say this: As far as 51  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 I requirements to be a charter school, some of the essentials are they must be public, they must be nonsectarian, they must be , nonreligious, nonhome-based, and nonprofit. There are some prohibitions: No private, parochial, or nonpubllc school may be converted into a charter school; no more than half of the pupils in any one grade wlthin a school district may enroll in a charter school; na charter school nay charge tuition; no charter school -- I'm sorry, nc district may require a pupil to enroll in a charter school, nor may they require an employee to wcrk at a charter school; no charter schcols may open prior to Fall of 1995. The process whereby charter schools will be created under this legislation gces something like this: Any group of individuals or organizations may apply to organize a charter school. If the proposal calls for the conversion of an existing school, it must be supported by a majorkty of the teachers and parents at the affected school, as evidenced by signatures on a petition. In Chicago, the lccal school council must also approve the conversion. Local school boards wlll be given preference -- or will give preference to charter schcol proposals that, one, have a high degree of pupil, parental, and -- and school personnel support; two, set rigorous levels of expected pupil achievement; andr three, are designed to serve at-rlsk students. After approval by the local school board, the proposal will be forwarded to the State Board of Educatlon for final approval. Once approved, a charter may not be revised without the approval of the local school board, the -- the charter school governing board: and the State Board cf Education. With respect to funding, in no case will the amount of funding provided tc the charter school be less than ninety-five percent nor more than a hundred and five percent of the school district's per capita tuition charge multiplied by the number of students enrolled. Charter schools can be revoked. And this is the -- this is -- Ehese are the circumstances under 52  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 l I which they can be: If the local school board finds that the charter school has committed a ma*erial violation of the charter; failed to meet or nake reasonable progress toward achievement of the pupil performance standards; failed to meet generally accepted standards of fiscal management; or violated any provision of 1aW from which the schcol was not exempted. Revocation may be appealed to the State Board. Additionallyr this bill prohibits institutions of higher learning from discriminating against charter school students in their admission policies. And -- and last but not least, there is a provision in the bill that Was provided by Senate Amendment No . 4, which prcvtdes for an alternative certification process. First of all, you must be a certified teacher or be alternatively certified. And the alternatlve certification qualiflcations include, one: a bachelor's degree from an accredited institution; two, been employed for a period of at least five years in an area requiring application of -- of that person 's education; and, three, passed the basic skills and subject matter tests required of regularly certified teachers. After being hired: teachers within a charter school will be -- will be -- Will be required to demonstrate continuing evidence to the charter school of professional growth. That's probably a very detailed summaryr but I'd be happy to entertain any questions there may be from the Body. '

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Is there any discussion? Senator Shaw. SENATOR SHAW: Thank you, Madam President. Will the sponsor yield?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Indicates he 'll yield, Senator Shaw. SENATOR SHAW: Senator O'Malley, in the spirit of cooperation, I filed an amendment, Amendment No. 6 - it's now before the Rules Commkttee; 53  STATE OF ILLINOIS REGULARSESSION 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY 1 SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 it's in Rules. Could I encourage you to hold this bill and bring it back to 2nd for an amendment that I filed yesterday? PRESIDING OPFICER; (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator O 'Malley.

Sena*or Shaw, I became aware of your amendment this morning, and I've read it. I know what it ccntains. I think you know, as well as I da, what you can do to move that process along. A couple of suggestions I'd make to you are these: First of all, this bill will hopefully go over to *he House, and as itfs going through the House, you can deal with it there; you ean alsc offer a separate bill and have it considered. But because of the constraints right now, in terms of our schedule, I intend to -- to nove this bill forward.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator Shaw.

In -- in the -- in the spirit of cooperating -- cooperating with each other here, can T ask you; Wculd you become a a spensor on the amendment, if you dcn't want to hold this bill? Will you sponsor the amendment?

PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator O'Malley.

Senator: I -- I think what your question was -- that I heard was Will I sponsor -- cosponsor this amendment. Now, 1et me say this to you: If I'm not -- if I'm going to hold *he bill, obviously I can't cosponsor -- if I'm not going to hold the billr I cannot cosponsor something in the House. If you Want to offer it as a bill, I Will certainly sit down and talk with you about 1t.

PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) 54  STATE OF ILLINOIS I 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION l 5 SENATE TRANSCRIPT ! 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Senator Shak. SENATOR SHAW: No. We are talking about -- will you join me in sponsoring the amendmjnt as a bill then? PRESIDING OFFICER; (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senatcr O'Malley . SENATOR O jMALLEY : ' I trled to answer that previously. I said I Would be happy to sit down and discuss it with you, and -- and see what else there can be do -- to -- to even make it better than -- than ycu're offering it. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator Shaw. SENATOR SHAW: Is that a yes or no? PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator O 'Malley. SENATOR O'MALLEY: I -- I didn't say yes, and I didn't say nor as you know that. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator Berman. SENATOR BERMAN: Thank you, Madam President. Question of the sponsor. PRESIDING OFFICER; (SENATOR DONAHUE) Indicates he'll yield, Senator Berman. SENATOR BERMAN: Is there a -- an equivalent of Senate Bill 19 moving along in the House? PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator O'Malley . SENATOR O 'MALLEX: Yeah. Senator Berman, I've heard discussion over there; T 55 ! - I I  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRTPT 14th Leqislative Day February 9, 1995 haven't seen a bill that's been introduced. So I don't know the answer Eo the question. 1 i PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) 1 Senator Berman.

All right. That -- that causes me a little concern, because I ! think that -- the concept of charter schoolsy T thinky is worth the attempt, but I think that there are some corrections that -- I or changes that ought to be considered, and We just haven't had the time to address some of these things. And I -- I guess 1'11 1 ask, but -- you know, if We can get an amendmenE puE on in the House of some things so that *e see this again, 'cause I'm not sure what control you or, certainlyy I would have over this bill l as it moves through the House. And I'm -- and I'd like to be able I ! to vote Yes, if I knew that there would be some dialogue regarding 1 several of the issues Ehat -- that cause me some concern. What -- I I What can you tell me, that lt will encourage a Yes vote?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator O'Malley. SENATOR O'MALLEY: : Wellr I'm -- I'm very honored that you would consider to vote Yes, SenaEor Berman. The only answer I can give you is this, and : it comes from good faith, I because, as you know, last year when we i I originally introdueed the bill, 1, time and again, opened up 1 I negotiationsandconsideredamendments. Ihavenodifficultywith 1 that process continuing intheHouse;infact,whenIwenEover and discussed the bill in the House Education Committee, I 1 I encouraged thae ehat process continue over there. I would have no difficulty making the same enccuragement as this moves through the legislative process. I hope that will encourage you to vote Yes. .. . tmicrophone cutoffl...your support. I

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) ! 56  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Senator Berman.

Thank you . Let me merely make some comments and... have no problem with fifteen charter schoals to -- to be created, or possibly be created, in Chicago. What I have a problem with is fifteen charter schools, forty learnlng zcne schools, X numbpr of waivers, so thak the average parent of a child in Chicago doesn't know what the heck their school going to be when we're done with a11 of these different nuances, neW innovatkons, et cetera. And I would strongly recommend that *e pick one, and I think that charters might be the one that I Would encourage. Let's do the charters and let's not confuse Chicago with an already cverwhelming burden of confusion that is laid upon them by a series of mandates, and this is just, maybe, another one. I think also that the concerns of my Latlno colleagues and my colleagues who represent Latlno communitles is a justifled oney beeause We've addressed special ed; ke've addressed the concerns of some of the teaeher groups; We've concerned other mandate prohibitions other Words, where you can 't waive them - but they could waive billngual. And youfve goE children that are going to Walk into these schools don't care whether they're downstate, suburbs, or Chicago - that don 't speak English. If they're not provided an edueation by -- and through a bilingual process, they're going down the tubes. And that I think is a very, very crucial issue that must be addressed. Bilingual cuqht to be included ln the non-waiverable issues tha: a school must provide to Ehe chlldren that walk through those doors. Thcse are just a couple of the comments. certainly hope that we kill get some cooperation out of the Rouse as this bill moves along, if it moves out of here today, and I hope that we will again see it before the bill moves to the Senate. Thank your Madam President and Senator O 'Malley.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE)  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14tb Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Further discussion? Senator de1 Valle. SENATOR dEL VALLE: Thank you, Madam President. Senator O'Malley, last year when ue acted on this bill, in committee, I did indicate my concern regardlng the exclusion of bilingual education as a mention of a non-waivable mandate. I voted againsk the bill last year because of that. Here we are again. The bill has not changed . I brought up again in committee. We presented an amendment to another bill regarding bilingual ed) that amendment was voted down. But I also, along with Senator Berman, encourage you to amend this bill in the House. too. would like tog at some point, support a chartered school proposal, but can 't, in good conscience, support a proposal that sets up the possibility of fifteen schools in the City of Chicago being off-limits to children who are limited-English proficient. That, I feel, Would be discriminatory. I also Want to point out that this bill allows for new schools to be created, for new schools ko be given a charter, in addition to taking an existing school and creating a charter school. And that's greaty but I kant to renind the Menbers that there is no funding attaehed to this bill to fund a new school; it would have to come out of existing resources from that school district. So this an unfunded mandate. And we certainly must recognize that. And 1, again, have no problems uith creating a new schoolz but in Chicagoy we have a system that's strapped. There is already a huge deficit. We are going toy through another bill, it passesr Eake away about EwenEy nillion dollars. We suppcrted properky tax caps. I voted for the caps, but I recognize that it's going to take money away from the schools. And so we're going to keep approving proposals here that take money away from khe Chicago public schools. I hope that down the road we are going to see a financial package that gives the Chicago public schools some very nuch-needed dollars and not just 58  STATE 0F ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9: 1995 ' come out of here at the end of tbe Session having approved a feW bills that eertainly look great and may be a nice token, a nice gesture, but will not deal with the serious financial problems of the schcol.

PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator Palmer.

Thank you, Madam President. A question of the sponscr.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Indicates hedll yield, Senator Palmer. SENATOR PALMER: 1 Senator O'Malley, in our analysis it says that the State Bcard of Education is requlred to provide an annual report to the Governor and the General Assembly on the success or failure of charter schools. What acttons will be taken beyond the presentation of a report?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator 0'Ma11ey.

Senator Palmer, as I -- as I mentioned in my opening remarks, there's a provision -- there are provisions in the bill for revocation and grounds for which revccation ean be initiated. And -- and -- and -- without restating them again, basically they have to deal with basically either exceeding the charter, not meeting the conditions of the charter or, frankly' just the achievement goals and objectives aren't being met. And Ehe local school board is going to have an opportunity to initiate that revocation process. So I think that's the safeguard that I -- I think addresses your concern.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) senator Palmer.

I 59  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 ' j Yes. Thank you, Senator O'Malley. And as I understand it, i that means that we look at each school on its oWn merits, and I don't have any quarrel with that. I$m very much in favor of charter schools, but as other colleagues have said, T do have some concern about this. I don't see anything in here abcut curriculum and What waivers -- what that means, as far as waivers are concerned, and I wonder if Senatar O 'Malley could speak to that.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DOSAHUE) Senator O'Malley.

As you know, Senator, the whole purpose of -- of charter schools - the whcle goal - is to allow flexibility, allow local initiativer local creativlty. But as part of the charter, they must spell out what the curricula will be that's offered in the -- in the charter school. And of eourse, you've got the safeguard of the -- of the -- the local eleeted or appointed school board having control over whether or not to grant that, and then, of course -- grant the -- the charter applicaticn, and then, of course, the next step after that is -- is that the -- the State Board of Educaticn either accepEs or rejects the local board's actlon. So I think that -- that we're trying to malntain that flexibiliky and creaeiviey as much as we possibly can, and I think that your concerns about what will actually be substantively taught in a school will be spelled ou* in a charter, because that's What the legislation calls for.

PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator Palmer.

Thank you. To the bill: I eertainly support charter schools. I do have a great deal of ccneern, and I think there is a significant difference between allowing schools flexibility and recognizing that there has to be some centrality to this when it 60  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT I 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 comes to curriculum and so forth. Even universities suppcrt a 1 ! core curriculum and acknowledge that there's a certain bcdy of information that a well-informed student should have and especially after our discussion yesterday, which relegated African-Americans to a category as ''other''. And I think that especially if you're talking about the groups here, that where these charter schools are likely to be lmcated - and it's popular to talk about self-esteem - then it would seem to ne that we Would make mcre than a passing effort to make sure that our cltizens ln Illinois understand the contributions that the people that this is geared to have actually made in this State. Thank you.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discusslon? Senator Jacobs.

Thank you, Madam President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. Would the sponsor yield for a clarification, more than a questlon?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Indicates he'll yield, Senator Jacobs.

It's my understanding in the bill, Senator: that it requires a bargaining unit of charter school employees be separate and distinct from any of the bargaining units formed from employees of the school district in which the charter school is located. I'm sure that that does not mean that -- that if the -- the CTU is the bargaining unlt' tha: they are prohibited from being *he bargaining unit of the charter school; it's just that they're not part of the ov/rall contracE. Is Ehat correck?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senator O 'Malley.

Senator, the -- I'm just trying to make sure that we answer 1 61  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9: 1995 this question, because I know it's of grea: inEerest and concern to you, and want to make sure that we dre accurate. As I understand the process, the -- is possible that the existing barqaining unit could, ln fact, be the bargainlng unit for the charter school. Ik is also possible that the teachers, under this legislationy could form their oWn bargaining unit. hope that clarifies

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator Welch.

Thank you, Madam President. In the committee I opposed this bill. still oppose this billr and the reason that throws the baby out with the bathwater. It does that that takes everything We've done in this Legislature, for many years, and says al1 of that knowledge is obsolete; we 're going to start over from scratch. Most of the Members on that side that were here prlor to the 1992 election helped work on those bllls that required core curriculum courses for high school students to get into cur universities and colleges in Illinois. And the reason for that was because the universities and colleges of Illinols had to teach remedial English freshman students. They couldn't even get through Rhetcric 10lr *he initial introduckory English course in our colleges, because the high schools had not done an adequate job of preparing the freshman class. We're going to go back to those days. Why? I don't know . We passed that bill requiring the core curriculum at the behest of the universities and colleges. A11 of us agreed that our students entering college weren't prepared. We're trying to fight against the Japanese and other foreign countries who educate thelr students more than we do. That was the idea behind the core curriculum . Now with this charter school concepty what Wedre saying is, ''We11z we 're going to 1et the local school boards decide.'' Somehow they suddenly 62  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 have gained the knowledge that éhey didn't have prior to *he 1980s when we passed the core currlculum requlrements. We passed these requirements because the local school boards weren't doing an adequate job of requiring entering-college freshmen to be prcperly educated. That's why we instituted that requirement. Now I know it's been bandled about that it's a mandate and therefore it's bad. Anytime we want to object to something, let's call it a mandate and then say it's unfunded. But, Ladies and Gentlemen, we spend over three and a half billion dollarsy going back tc elementary and secondary education, that we raise here in Springfield. The local school boards didn 't pass that income tax. State legislators in Springfield voted for and passed that inccme tax, and we passed that income kax increase of one-half percent supported by and encouraged by Governor Edgar on the Second Floor. Those of us who voted for that did so because we Wanted money to go back to our schools to pay for some of the requirements we imposed upon them . And one of those requirements Was the curriculum requirements of four years of English and three of mathematics. They got money to pay for that, Ladies and Gentlemen. We required them to do something, yes, but we also kncreased the money they were getting. What local school boards, partr have been saylng isy ''Send us the money, but don't us what to do.'' You know, that's a 1ot like my thirteen-year-old son says to ne. ''Dad, I need more moneyr but, no, I'm not going to clean up my room. I don't want to really do that. But, gee, I need money this weekend to go to the show .'' With money comes responskbility. don't think that we should detach our ability down here as Ehe Eaxing body from our ability to tell local schools what to do . If we do that, a1l we become is a bunch cf tax ccllectors, and maybe we should change the name from the General Assembly to Collector for the Stake of Illinois, like many of our counties are. And that's what this bill does. Senakor 63  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 I O 'Malley has become the tax collector for the charter school state. Al1 we're going to do is bring the money in and send it right back. It's going to increase the bureaucracy; we have nothing to say about it. I think this is a bad idea. I think that just because the election on November 8th created this so-called ''New World Order''that a11 of you folks are jumplng on the bandwagon, this ''New World Order'' is not necessarily good . We - - there were some good ideas prior to November 8, 1994, although some of you over there refuse to admit thak.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Further discussicn? Senator O 'Malley, to close.

Thank you, Madam Presidentr and thank you, my fellow i colleagues in the Senate, for taking the time to ask important and ' meaningful questions, so that there is a clear understanding of what we're voting about here today. I do want to make a couple of comments before I -- I make my -- the closing remarks that I wanted to, by responding to a couple of Senators. Senator del Valle calls this an unfunded mandate. In factr if it is an unfunded mandate, it is -- it is the ultimate unfunded mandate, i because the local school districts are actually going to decide I I whether they want to deal wlth it or not. Now, I'm not going to buy that it's an unfunded mandate, but .I'm just telling you there 's that safeguard built into the process. And, Senator Welch, I -- I very much appreciabe your comments, Eoo, because you made those in committee as Well and I've given that some thought. You know , I think that charter schools are actually going to do a r I better job in achieving what youdre interested and concerned in, i and 1'11 tell you Why. As things are now, in public educationr we have -- you're right, we have curricula standards that are mandated from a centralized bureaucracy. But do they really I i 64  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 I measure achievement by just putting them in the School Code? I would submit to you the fact that any child in Illinois cannot I l read his diploma on sraduation day, would be evidence that that's nat the case. Under the charter concept, you dre gokng to establish the curricula, and your school, your charter, is going to fail - it w111 be gone - unless those students really learn what's set forth ln thak curricula. And you know r like I know, that the people who serve cn local school boards are even more interested in public education, Senator Welch, than you and I are. And they're going to do a better job to make sure, as the gatekeepers on this, that if a charter is granted by them, it has appropriate safeguards that make sure the kids are getting a good-quality public education. Charter schools are about local control, and lacal controlr maybe, in the finest sense. Theylre about inviting everybody at the grassroots level into the process: moms and dads, even students, most importantly teachers who are really interested - and most of 'em are, as We know - in doing creative thlngsr in being effective as teachers, and seelng students achieve. Those local elected school board members, they're going to be the gatekeeper. And if they fall somehow to do their job right, then you've gct the State Board of Education. Now, some people may have some mixed emotions here about that, as to their effect. But I believe that charter schools provide a reasonable alternative to what we've .been doing in public education. They provide flexibility from a centralized bureaucracy, and a one-slze-fits-all mentality that has existed al1 too kong (n publkc educatkon. They encourage creativity and qreater local control and involvement in our public schools, and the more people Who are invalved tn the processr the better Ehe process has been. That's What America 's built on. It has always worked best when Ehat's there. I don't like to close with criticismr but I'm going to suggest to you that the only 65  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 1 legitimate criticisn of this bill is that it is too limited in scope; that it only provides for fcrty-five charter schools in the i State of Illinois. And I would hope that next year, because we start seeing some success and we start seeing a great deal of -- amount of enthusiasm at the local level: that that's What 1111 be back here doingr asking you to increase the limitation well above forty-five schools. Thank you, and I appreciate your support fcr this bill.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Question is, shall Senate Bill 19 pass. Those in favor will vote Aye. Opposed, Nay. The voting is open. Have a1l voted Who wish? Have a11 voted Who wish? Have a11 voked Who wish? Take the record. On that question, there are 47 Ayes, 9 Nays, 1 voting Present. Senate Bill l9, having required the -- received the required consEitutional majorlty, is declared passed. Senator Butler, on Senate Bill 2l? Senator Karpiel, on Senate Bill 22? Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

Senate Bill 22. (Secretary reads title of bill) 3rd Reading of the bill.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Senatcr Karpiel. SENATOR KARPIELI . Thank youy Madam President. Senate Bill 22 allows schocl districEs to petition the S*ate Board of Education for *he waiver or modification of mandates required under the School Code when the intent of the mandate can be addressed in a more effective, efficient or economical manner. They -- they can apply for these waivers when the school districts can demonstrate that they can meet these -- the intent of the mandate in a more efficienty effective or economical manner, or waivers fron mandates can be -- 66  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 or, requested when they 're necessary to stimulate innovation or improve student performance. There are two basic kinds of mandate waivers in this bill. One is from the rules and regulations of the State Board. And that case, they petition the State Board for the waiverr and then the State Board makes the decislon whether or not to grant that waiver. If they are requesting a waiver from a statutory mandate under the School -- School Code, it must come the General Assembly, for us make that determination. The also contains the Chicago Learning Zone legislationy which believe we passed last year, dealing with clusters of elementary and high schools in the City of Chicago, for a type of a -- a learnlng zone -- actual zone. And tt also includes the provisions, again of a bill from last year, that will allow school districts to make lnterfund loans if they're made for the purpose of meeting one-time, nonrecurring expenses. And I'd be glad to answer any questions on Senate Bill 22.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Is there any discussion? Any dlscussion? Senator Berman.

Thank you, Madam President. I rise in opposition to Senate Bill 22. This is an example of a bill that does too much tao quickly and fails to give us -- give us and others the opportunity to have meaningful input. Le* me poin: out to you one problem with this that think is very, very serious, and it could be corrected, it could be addressed, but it hasn't been, and there fs an amendment that's been filed; that this bill is moving ahead on a so-called fast track, regardless of what merit this amendment or other amendments may have. Under this bill as you fre being asked to vote on lt today, any school district - any schcol distrlct of nine hundred and thirty-five school districts -- and if you thlnk that my scenario is hypothetical, I will tell you it's going to be actual. Let's say this bill moves through khis Bodyy goes to the 67  STATE 0F ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 1995 House, and it passes out, and let's say by May 1st and that's probably late it's signed into law. You're gcing to have nine hundred and thirty-five school dlstrlcts that are goln: to waive -- want to uaive one or more Statutesr go to the State Board -- they're going to hold a public hearing locally, then they 're going to go to the State Board, and regardless of what the State Board asks for or reeommends regarding the waiver of every law that we've ever passed, on October nine hundred and thirty-five school districts are going to file a request for waiver wiEh this Body - with the General Assembly. And any cne of khose school districts can have one, ten, fifty, or a hundred waiver requests to waive laws that have been previously passed. And this bill says that on October 1, they flle that request, when we meet after October that waiver is going to go ineo effect, walving Ehe previcusly passed requirements of our Statutes, unless both Houses reject that Waiver. Ladies and Gentlemen: wedre only going to be in meaningful Session six days in our usual Veto Sesslcns. It w1ll be impossible for us to evaluate the waiver requests of a11 nine hundred and thirty-five school districts. But that is what this bill provides. That's cne reason why I encourage a No vote. You are inviting the waiver of a1l prevlously passed leglslation dealing vith sehools. The -- cther reason I urge a No vote is that this impeses what called a learnlng zone, representing fifty school buildings and forty thousand children ln Chicago, that nobody knows what that's going eo provide. We 've already passed, in the previous bill, a charter school for fifteen schcol buildinss. person -- a parent in Chicago said to me, ''If my child doesn't go to a learning zone school, does that mean that my child isn't going to be learninga'' Simplistic, but meaningfulw question. Let's not overcome what we're trying to do with the previous bill dealing with charter schools that will cover fifteen schcols Chicago. This is 68  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLX REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT l4*h Legislative Day February 9, 1995 overkill. This is unplanned. This is the fast track that's running over a hundred years of previous legislation dealin; with schools. Let's hold this up . Let's take a serious look at this. Let's do it in a more meaningful way. urge a No vote on this 3rd Reading bill today.

PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator del Valle. SENATOR dEL VALLE: Thank you, Madan President. think Senator Berman certainly expressed ny concerns, but I do want to add just a couple of things for the record; that this waiver bill, laws pertaining to teacher certification and special ed are not waivable, transltional bilingual ed is and that the -- once againy the Education Connittee voted down a bilingual education amendmentr and also that these kaivers will be granted for up to five years, making it difficult for a district to respond to rapid demographic changes and changing student needs. Now y one provision this bill think also affects teachers, because with the current law, an application for a walver or modification of administrative rules and procedures can be made to the State Board. What this bill does is that says that you can make an application to waive a mandate, not administrative rules and procedure. It also says that loeal school boards can develop an application for a mandate waiver without the consultation of educators. The current laws calls for consultation of educators on a request to waive administrative rules and procedures. So you dre leaving the decision making in the hands of the local school board totally, and bilingual teachers and program administrators in school districts throughout the State nay be locked out of this decision-making process. On the learning zone part, Senator Bernan said well. We are essentially creating forty: fifty charter schools. Between this bill and the previous bill and the 69  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 voucher bill, we are advancing legislation that is intended to break up the Chlcago school district. And many people here may be, or probably are, in favor of that. really don't think that this is the approach, but that's what happening here. The learnins zone will be governed by a nine-member commissionr including five members and the Chair appointed by *he Governor. It's an area that inelude ten percent of the kids the Chicago public schools. And so you're going to put ten percent - this is separate from the charter schools and separate from the vouchers, if that's approved. Ten percent will be controlled by a board established by the Governor. So we're going to have the Governor's Office, I think, running a kittle, separate school district in the City of Chicago. Now, could live with that, if you Were also saying that you Ne're going to ensure that that school district had adequate facilitiesv that that school district had the schools lt needs to relieve overcrowdingy that that school district had adequate resources to provide a1l the services that those schools should be providing. But this bill is silent on those kinds of matters. Bilingual education is not listed as a non-wakvable provision in the learning zone designation. I think that, as Senator Berman said, the wrong way to go, and I hope that our Members not support this.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator Jacobs.

Thank you, Madam President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. As much as I have the utmost respect for the sponsor of this legislakion -- and I don't think you'd have called unless you had the votes available here today to -- to pass it. But do we really want to do -- to come back to this Body to have veto power over the State Board of Education on waivers that are 70  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 ( denied? That -- that, to me, seems ko me very clearly that we are i overstepping our bcunds. Either -- we are elther overstepping our I bounds or the Governor can't control the State Board of Education. ' Either case is a no-win situation. I think that's one porticn of this bill that I think is -- is very, very onerous from the standpotnt even, in my esttmation: of the separation of powers. I think that Senator Berman and Senator del Valle really have picked on a 1ot of the issues here that -- that are a sore subject with myself, but I guess I look at it a little bit from the waiver situation. If we 're going to allow schools to have waivers, then why don't we allow municipalitles to have waivers from the mandates? Why don't we allow a11 bodies that *e mandate tc to have waivers? I just am very much afraid -- and I'm a great betiever in tbe separabion of power; I think this violates that. And for that reason, 1'11 be voting No.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Further discussion? Senator Welch.

I have a question of the sponsor.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONAHUE) Indicates he'll <sicl yield, Senator Welch.

Senator Marpiel, a few years ago we passed a 1aw requiring annual testing .of third-, sixth-, eighth-, and tenth-grade students. Is that gotng to be denandated, or wil1 that continue in existence lf thls bill is signed into law? PRESIDING OFFICER; (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Karpiel.

Senator Welch, I want to emphasize to the entire Body, noEhing in this bill demandates anything -nothing. A waivercculd be 1 ! applied for by a district Eo demandate that requlation. That is ' 71  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 true. After the school board holds public hearings with input from parents and teachers, and then if they decide, in fact, to apply for that, then perhaps they could get a Waiver. Buk nothing is demandated.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Welch.

Well, the last Wave of reform that we had in this Body in the late eighties and early nineties, was at the behest of the Chamber of Commerce. And as you recall, this Was one of their major reforms; wedre going tc start this rigld testing of thirdr sixth, eighth, tenth graders so we can compare school dlstrtct to school district to see if there fs improvements. NoW we 've got this second wave of reform that has come about because of the ''NeW World Order'' created on November 8th of 1994, and under this ''New World Order'' even those old Republicans ' reforms are now obsolete. I don't understand this. You guys are even reforming your reforms. Those were basically Republican ldeas four years ago. Now you guys are throwing those out the window? don 't understand this. If one school is granted a waiver from having these tests of third, sixth, eighth and tenth graders, the Whole system is probably, realistically, out the window. Because What are you going to compare 'em to? Those schools that will not apply for the waiver are probably those that are doing qood. Wefll probably have -- *he only school who 'll not apply for a waiver will be the Science and Math Academy. They dre probably, you know, ln favor of those testing. So it seems to me that you - - what's happening here is even some good ideas that We agreed with that came from your side of *he alsle you folks are now throuing out the window . -- I think that what we should do is ra*ionally decide which of those requirements should continue into effect and and which should be reviewed. But to throw 72  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GE,NERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 everything out the window, to me does not make sense.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDXCZ) Any further discussion? Senator Demuzio.

I I'd like to ask the sponsor a question, might.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Sponsor indicates shefll yield. Senator Demuzio .

Senator Rarpielr I'm trying to read the Section that provides for the or, indicates that the State Board files all of the requests for waivers with the General Assembly and the Secretary State before October the 1st of '95 and thereafter on each May and October. It apparently outlines those the informatlon then contained in that is those waivers that have been granted and those that have been appealed, and: of courses that appeal then I guess is up to -- is up to us. Is it only the appeals that come to usr or is it -- or is it the entire report from the State Board that we must approve or disapprove?

PRESIDING OFPICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Karpiel.

Remember there are two ways to qet a waiver under two things in this bill. The first one is if it's a waiver or a modlflcaEion of a rule or regulation of the State Board, in khich case they 're the ones that make the determination, but appeals by the local disericts would then come to us. If tn fact it's a statutory mandate Waiver, then all of those applications eome to us, because the State Board does not have the authority to Waive cr modify a State law.

PRESIDING OFPICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Demuzio.

STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 In theory, then, why -- why would a schocl board then Want to file with the State Board? Why don't they come directly here?

PRESIDING OFPICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Rarpiel.

Wellz if it's a ruler they would want to come straight to us. If could, Senator Demuzio, at thls time, just offer you a -- an example. mean, everyone here talkinq about things like throwing everything out the window , abolishing bilingual program - and by the way, represent a district that has a bilingual program of over twenty-seven languages theydre going to just khrow that out the window. Let me just use an example. One of my school districts wants to build a storage -- you know, a thing to hold lawn nowers, snow plows, et cetera - a skorage shed, and they have been told by thetr attorneys thelr school attorneys - that that storage shed, which is not adjacent to the school - I mean it is not attached to the school - will have to have sprinkler system -- will have to have a sprinkler system in it. And of course lt has a sprinkler system in it, which of course is according to State lawy they will also have to have a heating system so that the pipes don't freeze. That's the kind of waiver they could go dlrectly to the State Board for and, I believe, the -- the General Assembly would not have to get involved in.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDVCZ) Senator Demuzio.

I -- I know they can do that now without this bill, according to what one of my experts just indicated. But -- but 1et me -- le* mg ask you this question -- wellr aetually tWo -- three questions. If -- it says the General Assembly may disapprove Ehe report of the State Board ln whole or in -- in part within thirty ealendar days. Well, if tbat report comes over here and and it  STATE OF TLLINOTS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRTPT 14th Legislative Day February 1995 has a number of suburban schools, fcr example: that are made specific requests, and the say Chicago and and downstate schools have made similar requests, is there not the fear that somewhere along the line that there could be votes rounded up for one category of geographic sehool versus anotherr and approve part of this report and disapprove the other?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Karpiel.

Senator Demuzio, like any bill that goes through this Body, I suppose politieal maneuvering can get involved in just about anything. don't quite see whak that has to do with the policy ef the State of Tllinois regarding educating cur klds.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Demuzio .

Wellr it's called politics of geographics, is What it's called. Let me ask you this final question: How ts the motion put to approve or disapprove? Is it similar to the motion that is - - that we do with respect ta the Compensakion Review Board?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Karpiel.

fes. We would have to have a resolution disallowing it al1 or in part.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Further discussicn? Senator Gec-Karis. SENATOR GEO-KARIS; Will the sponsor yield for a question?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Sponsor indicates she w11l yield . Senator Geo-/aris.

75  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Senator, there is -- the waiver does not remove tenure, does it?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Karpiel.

No. This -- with the amendment that was put on yesterday, it does not. The original bill did not cover teacher certificationr special ed, and with the amendment that we put on yesterday, it also exempts tenure and seniority.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Geo-Karis.

Well, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senatey the Skate gives aboue thirty-five percent think it is - or thirty-seven percent to the Chicago schoolsy and I think it's time we try to do some good and try to be economic. Now, what this bill will do: It allows the school districts to petition the State Board of Education for the waiver or modification of certain mandates required under the School Code when the -- the intent of the mandate can be addressed ln a more effective, efficient or economical manner. Well, it's about time we thought about the taxpayers' monies, because we don't want to keep sending money down the hole and seeing it disappear. If this bill can help straighten out some of the very inequitable thlngs that have been happening not only in Chicago schools, others - I think it's time that we support Ehtnk lE's a step ln the right direction. We've got to stop thinking just about how much money we can put in wiEhout any results. When kids can't read and then graduated from high school: can't even read their own name on their own diplomay thtnk it's gone pretty far. And I Ehink Ehat this is a bill in the -- in the right directlon, and I certainly urge support of it. 76  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLX REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDZCZ) Any further discussion? Senator Collins.

Senator Karpiel, you recognize that I had filed an anendment to this bill. And -- and think the amendment concurred with something that you said in ccmmittee during the time on another bill, that you had worked on a task force and in that it waiver request had to -- to set forth why they needed the waiver and What the goals Were, what they wanted to accomplish, and how that particular law or regulation had somekhat impeded their progress toward attaining thelr goal. I filed that amendment yesterday, and I would like tc know know this is on one of your -- Whatever the fast track is; it's going to the House. But would you have some objection, this thlng gets slowed down, to - - to at some point getting -- getting that amendment on it? Because it's just simply it says that you can't just willy-nilly ask for waivers that -- not just in this bill: but on a11 waivers, that you set forth some clear goals and objectives, and you would have to specify how that particular law, or rule, or regulation Would somehow impede your progress toward aehieving that goal. That would be a uniformity that all requests would have to come here.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senatcr Karpiel.

Well' Senator Colllns, first of all, I want to just say Ehat the bill does not allow the school districEs Eo willy-nilly apply for a -- for a waiver. It is pretEy -- I did read your amendment, and I know what you're tryin: to get, but I think it's already in the bill. It already calls for -- that the -- they have tc demonstrate ehat the intent cf the mandate can be addressed in a more effeckive, efflcienE or economical manner, or be based upon a 77  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 specific plan for improved student performance and school improvement. And then yesterday, with Amendment 8, we also put on a provision that shows that they are requesting a waiver based upon that it will be more economical, they have show What they are now spending on the nandate and what they project that the -- the savings will be if they :et a waiver. So I think we already have safeguards as far as that is concerned. As far as you wanting to add this amendment to a bill, yesy there 's a House bill, uhich I suppose Will be coming over. And then of course we will be in a posture again to introduce amendments or to try to get amendments.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any further discussion? Senator Palmer.

Thank you, Mr. President. Questions of the sponsor.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Sponsor indicates she will yield . Senator Palmer.

Senator Karpiel, I'm reading this and I've listened to *he debate. -- at this point, do not understand the purpose of the Chtcago learning zone, when the intention of this bill is to allow all school districts waive mandates. Why is it necessary then to create what amounts to a second-class citizenship for Chieago sehools by creating a commission that has to pass on What they do in their schools, rather than just removlng that and allowing them to participate in this general directfon?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDXCZ) senator Karpiel.

Senator Palmer: want to say that I've had Ehe same question. You have to understand Ehat the learning zone provision of this bill was net my -- my original bill, so I can only can only 78  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislatlve Day February 9, 1995 imagine that the reasons for adding Ehat or going along with the learning zone, as well as the mandate waivers, as well as the charter schools, to give as many options as possible for the sehool distrtct to beeome more innovative ways providing education.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Palmer.

Well, hope from now on your side will spare us those, but one nore question. I'd like to know what an interfund loan transfer is, and What does that mean, extending the time for repayment.

PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Karpiel.

I'm sorry, didn't hear you.

PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Palmer.

I'm sorry. In our analysls: it says that part of this bill authorizes interfund llan transfers and extends the time for repayment.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Karpiel.

That's only for downstake sehools, for one Ehlng. And bhe tdea is that there are times When a school district needs to, you know, access some money Eor a one-time obligation, and they can borrow it from another fund.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any furEher discussicn? Senator DeAngelis. SENATOR DeANGELIS: 79  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Thank you, Mr. Presldent. Some time ago ke reached We received a docunent that indicated Where a1l of our children had gone to school or are currently going to school. And have Eo tell you: it was probably no surprise that many of the legislatorsf children didn't -- never attended public school. In fact, a large amount attended prlvate schools. Yes, Senator del Valle. Of the ones that currently have children in school: you have quite a few that are sending their kids to prlvate schools. Now, as a Body can't believe this - we are arguin: against the possibility of those people who are elected to serve on a school board to proceed to make a request regarding something they feel their children either need or don't needy when they nornally -- or most board members have children in those schools. And it's quite a shocker to me that we sit here in Sprinqfield and decide that We have far better judgment or a more elitisk philosophy of governing than allowing those boobs back in the district, who have children in those schools, to exercise a requesk a request - to perhaps to do somethlng that may allok them to reallocate resources or run their schools better. You know, Senator Karpiel, you have a very good bill except for one thing : Ultimatelyr under your bill, the decision may have to come to us. And frankly, I think we ought to probably strike that out and 1et those people back home that we have such great disdain for be allowed to makew those decisicns.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any further discussion? Senator Watson.

Yes. Thank you, Mr. President. And I've -- I've got te comment on one of the previous speakers talkin: about maybe we ought to stay out of a particular area of this Stake and the problems that theypre having, when -- when, in fact, we've just debated the charter schools, and the reform groups, who are truly 80  STATE OF TLLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 ! in the trenches of trying to create a quality education for the I young people of Chicago, those reform groups Who are members of local school councils and trying to make the reform work, they support mcre charters; they want to see additional charters for the City of Chieago. They -- they wrap -- they embraee the learning zone concept. So to -- to imply that we on this side of the aisle shouldn't be meddling in the particular area of the State, namely the Chicago public schools, without getting your approval, so to speak, you can look right here at -- in the gallery and see *he very people who are trying to get it done. Theydre trying to make sure the educakion process works in the public schools of Chicago . And I support them: and I support this concept, and I support the charter school effort. If you go back into your districts and you talk to your schools and your teachers and your school boards and your parents, one of the biggest issues that ycu'll hear about is, HWhy are you up there, Frank, dictating policy back to us, when We ought to be making those decisions locally?n And that's right. Theypre right. And you talk about the -- the concept and the philosophy af -- of segregation of power, and that we ought to include municipalities. Why, sure we should. Sure ue should. We have no business sitting up here dictating what a community or a school distriet ought to be dotng. Those are decisions that should be made locally. And that's what we're trying to do here. That's the opportunity we're giving local boards. The finaneial burdens of comnunities and school districts and units cf local governnent throughout this State rests with us here in Springfield on the mandates we send to them and dictate policy on what they have to do to comply with our -- What we think's important. So this is the righ: direction to kake, Mr. President. And I'm glad Eo support Senator Karpiel on her efforts on a mandate waiver. Thank you. 81 I I STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENCRAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 END OF TAPE TAPE 3 PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) .. . there any further discussion? If notr Senator Karpiel, Eo close. SENATOR KARPIEL: Well, thank you, Mr. President. I don't think I can fo11cW that up with anything more eloquent, except to just emphasize once again that this is not opening up the whole school Code to any school district to willy-nilly get rid of anything they don't like. It is absolutely false. Senator Welchr I had and Senator Klemm had a mandate waiver bill in last year, which, in fact, passed Ehis house . This did not come out of November 8th and the NeW World Order, although I'm very happy about the New World Order. Senator Bermanr you complain about the learning zone. You sat on the advisory committee to come up with the language for the learning zone, sponsored the amendment in committee and, in fact, at that time, supported the Chicaso learnlng zones. As far as the thirty days is concerned, yes, khat might be a concern about the October 1st lists that will be given us and that we'll only have the Veto Session to acE on lt, but 1et me tell you if what happened this weekend with all the phone calls to every one cf our offices and house -- our homes is any indkcation, believe me, six days wlll be enough, because Ehey can act fast if there's opposition to anything like that. So I think thts is a good bill. We are not going to just throw out the School Code. We are simply getting out of the business of micromanaging the education of our children and allowlng, especially in downstate, our elected representative school board members to -- tc provide the education 82  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 fcr the kids of our districts at the local level and to allow school diskricts like St. Charles to not have to put sprinkling systems and heaters into a storage bin. ask for an Aye vote.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) The question is, shall Senate Bill 22 pass. Those in favor will vote Aye. Opposed will vote Nay. And the voting is cpen. Have a11 voted who wish? Have a11 voted Who wish? Have al1 vated who wish? Take the record. On that question, there are Ayesr 22 Nays, and 2 voting Present. And Senate Bill 22r having received the required constitutional majorityr is declared passed. The sponsors of Senate Bills 25r 26r 28# 41r 42, 43, 44, 50, 51, 52, 54, 55 and 58 have agreed to hold their bllls. So we Will be prcceeding to the middle cf page 4 of your Calendar - your regular Calendar - on the Order of Senate Bills 3rd Reading. Senate Bill 66. Senator Maitland. Madam Secretary, read Ehe bill.

Senate Bill 66. (Seeretary reads title of bill) 3rd Reading of the bill.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Maltland.

Well, thank you very much, Mr. President and Members of the Senate. Senate Bill 66 contains the noncontroversial elements of the 1994 land conveyance bill. You may recall, there were some problems in the closing days of the Session, and we weren't able to move those conveyance -- conveyances forward because there were some controversial issues in there as well. This bill absolutely contains the -- the ncncontroversial measures that -- khat need to - - to pass on over to the House. There are tWo at least in here that have some time constraints on so it's necessary that we get this bill over to the House. There are ak least three 83  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSTON SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 conveyances that will be added in the Senate -- in the House, Mr. - - Mr. President, that we were not able to get herg in the Senate. I have talked with the three Democratic sponsors, and they've agreed that we will put those on in the House . And so , Mr. President, would -- would seek support of the Body.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Is there any discussion? Senator Demuzio .

Thank you very much. We appreciater Senator Maitlandr your cooperation in this matter, and we -- we may have one or tWo others that we didn't discuss earlier today. not really sure. Some Members are now soins through theirs, but we appreciate the offer, and Welll be noving -- working with you to try to move thcse alcng during Session. Thank you.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Is there any further discussion? If notr the question isz shall Senate Bl11 66 pass. Those in favor Will vote Aye. Oppased will vote Nay. And the voting is open. Have al1 voted Who Wish? Have al1 voted Who wish? Have al1 voted who wish? Take the reeord. On that guestion' there are 57 Ayes, no Nays, none voting Present. And Senate Bill 66, having received the required constltutional majority, is declared passed. ...of the Body: we shall be proceeding to the middle of page 5, Senate Bills 3rd Reading. We will be dealing with Senate Bills 24l and 242. We . will then be going *he Supplemental Calendar, and we shall return to the Order of Senate Bills 3rd Reading of the regular Calendar to pick any bills that we have -- Ehat any sponsor wishes to have debated on 3rd Reading. On the Order of 3rd Readlngr Senate Bill 241. Madam Secretary, read the b111.

Senate Bill 241. (Secretary reads tltle of bill) 84  STATE 0F ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 I 3rd Reading of the bill. I PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) 1 I Senator Dlllard. I SENATOR DILLARD I : I Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. I I There's been a 1ot of talk today about bills that are on the fast j I track. This is a piece of legislation that probably has been on I the slow track. Tbis issue of reorganizing higher education's ' I governance bcards has been around since I was a student at Western , Illinois University, close to twenty years ago. So this is an lssue that has been around a long time. There have been ad ë nauseam task fcrces on the structure of higher education. I believe Senator Walsh had a task force a number of years ago, and I over ehe last few years, Lieutenant Governor Bob Kustra has spent ' I extensive time on this issue, including having a task fcrce khat ! he chaired along w1th khe Chairman of the Board of Higher 1 I Education, Arthur Quern. And they came ko a number af I conclusions, and that is where Ehis bill came from. Let me tell I I you quickly what it does. It abolishes the Board of Regents and I I the Board of Governors of State Colleges and Universities and 1 I creates seven new governing boards for the individual I I institutlons. It makes Sangamon State University a part of the I University of Illinols' system, whieh I believe greatly enhances higher education in central Illinois. And ik reduces khe size . of the Board of Higher Education from seventeen to fifteen menbers. This bill has passed this Chamber a year ago. It came out of an extensive multi-hour hearing the other day in the Higher Edueation Conmittee of the Senatey and a like bill is movkng through *he House of Representatives and IE came aut of the House of Representatives'Higher Education Comnittee on a vote of 9 to j nothing. I belkeve it's a -- the time has come. It has been 1 I studied extensively: including hearings just a week ago here in 85  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day Eebruary 9, 1995 this Chamber in the House -- or in the Senate Higher Education Committee, and I would be happy to answer any questions, and urge 1ts adoptton.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Is there any discussion? Senator Demuzio.

Well, thank you, Mr. President: Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. Senator Dillard and Senator Weaver and a number of other individuals know that over the course of time here, and partlcularly this last Session, I was one of maybe two Democrats on this side of the aisle that was supportive of the issue of Sangamon State University joinlng the University of Illinois, and frankly, as Senator Berman reminds me on occasion, Was the deciding vote in the Education Committee a couple of years ago in order for that bill to get to the Senate Floor. I have had the opportunity to talk to a number of individuals associated wlth Sangamon State University and as well as those individuals Who reside here in the community and those who commute back and forth, as well as the various private higher education and some of the community colleges, the Chamber of Commerce and others, who truly believe, as I do, that this is, in factz a idea whose time has lndeed come. And I was supportive of this concept through the process untll the b11l was lntroduced this past week. My oppositicn today comes from page 420 where it says, or attempts to define the entire bargaining unit for the University of Illinois for the academic community. As a matter of fact, if I may, it says that sole appropriate bargaining unit for academic faculty at the University of Tllinois shall be a unit comprised of a1l tenured -- a11 tenured employees employed by the Board of Trustees and all of its undergraduate, graduate and professional programs, regardless of current or historieal representation rights or patterns of application of any other factors. I don 't 86  STATZ OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLX REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day FebtuafY 1995 know of any other unit of government, agency of State, that we attempt to define the parameters fcr the bargaining unit. We eertainly don't do it for Public Aid ; we don't do it for Children and Family Services, or Mental Hea1th, cr Public Health, or anyone else. But we are attempting here to suggest that simply because of the fact that Champaign and Chicago doesn't have an existing professional union that represents the academics on their campusr that somehow or other we ought not allow that to happen so that the bargaining unit that has been in -- in place sinee 1986 at Sangamon State Universityr which is affiliated With the Illinois Federation of Teachers, the University Professionals of Illinois, in fact, may very well be precluded from having of their successful bargainin: decisions since 1986 changed. But even that is something, but *he next line in this amendment on page 420, or this bill, says any decision, rule or regulation that is promulgated by the Board to the contrary shall be null and -- and void. So you have the next bill, 242, that says that there will be a neW mechanism for selecting the Board of Trustees where there would be seven appointed by -- seven menbers appointed by the Governor of his Party, and stx of -- of the other Party. And so what weire, in facts saylng ln this particular amendment, as I see is that we are taking the decision-making process away from the Board of Trustees with respect to bargaining, and we are saying that even if they had a different mechanism or wanted to recognize someone that fall withln the purview of this current historical standing, they couldn't do it unless they came back to the legislaturer in all arrogancey to change *he State law . I don 't ehink eha: we, ehe Jeneral Assembly, ought to be in the business of defining the parameters for those individuals. It seems to me that we have a Board of Trustees of the University of Illinois that's empowered to make those decisions. I support everythin: else that's in this bill. I don't support that 87  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 provision that denies the opportunity for the existing bargaining unie at Sangamon State University to contlnue in existence. And I know the argument w(l1 be that if, factv they can orqanize the other two campuses, that, in fact, this does not preclude them from doing that. But as you and I b0th know: that is basically and vlrtually impossible. So would hope today that those indivlduals who believe in the collective bargaining process would vote No on this particular piece of lesislation today, take that partlcular provision out of this bill, and will certainly have my support and I think probably a number of others on this side of the alsle. This is an important lssue to me, but I cannot trample on the rights of the men and women who have been out there in the professional academic community since 1986 Who had been successfully bargaining uith their issues. Senator Dillard, I certainly comnend you for your effort todayy and I am truly sorry that can't support your bill in its current form . I certalnly want to. If it doesn't get enough votes today, and hopefully it won't - perhaps it Will - then with that provision nctwithstanding being in the billr then, in fact, would be able to support it. Thank you.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any further discussion? Senator Hasara .

Thank you, Mr. President. This is a real big day for my town, and I hope, alsoy for most of youz because although we often make a lot af jokes about Springfield, especially those of you from the ''big City'', your second home, too, and I've heard many of you say: indeed, hoW fond you do become of Springfield. We, in Springfield, see this as the best opportunity that We have had for years and yearsy as far as economkc development opportunitiesr as far as education and training of our citizens and the citizens of a1l of Illinois and, in fact, of those across the United States. 88  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Leqislative Day February 9, 1995 have Worked on thls issue with a group cf Springfield and surrounding area eitizens for about three years: and that eommittee has been extremely involved in many of the issues that we're talking about today. And I can tell you that Springfield will appreciate and thank you for allowing us tc become a branch of the University of Illinois, Which neans a to al1 of us this town. That committee intends to stay active and stay involved in now what happens in the future, as far as the Springfield branch of the University of Illinois, and I have a feeling that many of you may end up -- if you have not already attended that University, that you may in the future. It ts a shame that one, small issue, nok small to many people, but ln the scope of things in Springfteld it is not big enough to stop Ehis from goinq on at this time. 1, and several other people, are commikted to Erying to work out the problems with the faculty at Sangamon State University, hopefully soon to be the University of Illinois at Springfield. I an committed to trying to do EhaE: and am confldent that whatever happens, this move today will indeed be good for al1 of us. would urge an Aye vote and, indeed, on behalf of a11 the cltizens of this area, would thank you for voting Yes.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any further discussion? Senator Palmer.

Thank you, Mr. President. To the bill: I think that the University of Ikltnols ks a flrst-class unîversity. I think that tt is to its credit and to those ab Sangamon Sta*e who want to join with them that they have put forward this proposal in this bîll. HoWever, this bill, there are some contradlctlons that I cannot qet past. First of all, the fact that in order to make What could be a happy union possible, we're golng to bust a union Ehak has been operating successfully on this campus for same 89  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY RCGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 years. Secondly, another contradiction that is very disturbing to me: We are also, in the spirit of divlding up, we are spinning off seven smaller universities and pttking them over and against two growing systems. So here we have the University of Illinois growing by one campusy and potentially, sure: and with Godspeed, Southern IllLnots University, at some peint, will expand in some way as Well. But on the other hand, you are ksolating and parochializing the universitiesr such as Northeastern, Chicago State and others, without qranting to the Illinois Board of Htgher Education or any other body the oversight that necessary to protect smaller unlversities. So you're askln: them to compete with two major, growing systems. Now I would like to suggest to you, Ladies and Gentlemen, Ifm sure this bill is going to f1y out of herer but T just want to put somethlng on your minds. Last year, in Marchr I had the pleasure of meeting with members of the committee in the European Parliament and European Union Who are figuring out hoW to have a European-wide university system . Such things as if you are accepted at a university in one member state, you are accepted at a11 other member state universities. mention this to you only to point out the contradictlon. Where other places are busy figuring out how to be comprehensive, we are busy figuring out how to be parochial and isolated. think that is a mistake. -- there's no point in me asking you tc hold this bill while we introduce oversight measures.. So the best khat I can do is just ask thab on the basis of thisr we vote No. Thank you.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any further discussion? Senator Maitland.

Thank you very much, Presidenty Members of the Senate. When this issue first advanced ttself a couple of years ago, very franklyr was was very concerned about I was concerned abou: the way in which thought it was being advanced and 90  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 the reason it was being advanced. And seccndly, I was concerned about what I thought miqht possibly be shortsightedness with respect to determining; frankly, how this restructuring should take place. If would have had my my way, I would have created a task force to study this whole issue of governance and done it over a two-year period of time. But I think, frankly, we have now accomplished that by the delay in taking action on -- on this very issue. And there was another issue that I was concerned about, too. I was concerned abouk the point that's already been made on this Floor with respect to once you create this new vehicle, then where is the fuel that's going to make it run. We really didn't talk about how this governance was çoing to work under the new system, and that bothered me a great deal. This is a greaE system, these twelve universities We have in Illinois. We don't Want to lose ground; we Want to gain ground. And I have had extensive conversations with the Lieutenant Governor on thiss and I will applaud him, will applaud both the Governcr and the Lieutenant Governor, but particularly the Lieutenant Governor on this issue, because he as shared With me much time, much concern, and I can tell your the Lieutenant Governor is nat a person Who believes in status quo. He is innovative. He is concerned. He's willing to listen to ideas. And as a consequence of that, my concern and the concern of many in this Body about how we put this structure together and how we make kt work after we create it is going to take place before We leave this Chamber this spring. There are efforts already Eaking place behind the scenes by a loE of people to determine where this governance and control is going be betwgen BHE and *he new university presldents and their boards. It was difficult to come to this decision, and finally ta say to you, Ladies and Gentlemen, the straw that broke the camel's back for me in recent Weeks has been what consider to be inappropriate statements made by staff from at least one of the 91  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 governing boards about things that were taking place in the universities outside of the purview of *he board itself. think that's too bad. I think that's a shame. I think the time has come for the creation of a new board -- or new boards and a new mission, and I support this concept.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Is there any further discussion? Senator de1 Valle. SENATOR dEL VALLE: Thank you, Mr. President. A question for the sponsor.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Sponsor indicates he will yield. Senator de1 Valle. SENATOR dEL VALLE: Senator Dillardy you 'll recall that Mr. Wagner from the Illlnois Board of Higher Education testified in committee and presented a set of recommendations that he felt should be put into legislation and enacted by this Body in order to assure tbat once the universities are going at it alonez that we could deal With -- with tultion increases and deal with capital improvement requests and -- and other matters in -- in an orderly fashion and be able to make some sense out of all these requests that are going to come from these individual schools as *hey try to compete with each other for resources. Are we going to see legislation to implement those recommendations that Mr. Wagner suggested in committee?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Dlllard.

Senator del Valle, we have deliberately not increased or tinkered with the actual powers of the Board of Higher Education in this bill. Those will be addressed in separate legislation, and as Senator Maitland indicated a couple of moments ago, they'll take considerable thought, considerable study. Perhaps they 92  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 come this spring of this General Assembly: buE it's another b1ll and we will peruse which powers, if any new powers, wedre golng to give to the Board of Higher Education over the course of thls legislative Session thls spring.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator de1 Valle. SENATOR dEL VALLE: Well, it was because, in part, of our concern for what may happen With tuitions that Democratkc Members offered a bill to -- to cap tuition increases. They offered them an amendment; the amendment was nct accepted. But 1et me also state that I am concerned about the lncreased power of the U of think that this merger of Sangamon State With the U of is good for Sangamon State. agree With that. also agree *hat we ought to protect the -- the bargaining unit at Sangamon State, and that has to be changed in this bill. But we may or Imay not act on the IBHE'S recommendation now or this year or next year or the following year. In the meantlme, you're going to have the University of Illinois with a larger operation, with more resources to invest in lobbyists. They certainly have a very large intergovernmental affairs unit that does a great job here going to bat for the U of Sangamon State will now be a beneficiary of that lobbying operation. But we also have to recognize that because that budget is goin: to growr the individual schcols - Eastern, Western, Northeastern Illinois Universityr Chicago State will be golng a: it alone, and *hey'll be a: a tremendous, tremendous disadvantage here until we do something to level the playin: field. And I hope that that happens socn.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any further discussion? Senator Hawkinson. 6ENATOR HAWKINSON: Thank you, Mr. Presidenk. Will the sponsor ykeld a 93  STATE OP ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legtslative Day February 9, 1995 question?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Sponsor indicates he Wilk yield. Senator Hawkinson.

Senator: toor am concerned about legislative action which has the defacto effect of decertifying a bargaining unit, and my concernr I guess, is -- is enhanced in part because understand that welll be retalning the bargaining unlt for Sangamon State for cletical employees but -- but not at the other level. But my question really is: How -- how is the process gotng to work for the twenty-three bargaining units under the Board of Governors? How is that going to work?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDVCZ) Senator Dillard . SENATOR DILLARDI Senator Hawkinson, as understand it, those other institutions which have colleetive bargaining for faculty, those under *he Board of Governors' universities, Will stay the same.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Hawkinson.

The other questions 1 think youdve -- you've resolved fcr me. I've been concerned because there have been ftgures floating around that this is golng to actually lncrease costs by 5.6 million. But as I understand from my discussions with you, the joink purchasing can continue by agreement. The other centralized functions, such as legal counsel and sc fcrth, can -- guess also have some concern though thatls been expressed here that welre going to be pitting one instktution agaknst another, a Western against an Eastern, or so forth. And -- and I don't think any of us want to see that -- see that happen. And I'm also concerned by, I think, some comments that perhaps were made in 94  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Leglslative Day February 9, 1995 committee about scme suggested powers to be added to the -- the Board of Higher Education, which to some of us downstate, I think, gives us some concern as well, and if you could address that issue when you close.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any further discusston? Senator Jacobs.

Thank your Mr. Presidentr Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. Not to belabor any issue, Ifm going to be voting against this, but guess I would like to ask Senator Dillard one queskion.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Sponsor indicates he wl11 yield . Senator Jacobs.

I'm hearing a11 the discussion from the other side and from this side that we have one of the better college systems the country. Everyone is doing Well. All the schools are doing well. Our graduates coming out of our universities are a11 doinq wellr hopefully. Whenever you've -- you know, in my experience in this Bodyr usually we introduce leglslation ko -- to fix something that's braken, to help something that -- that needs some helpr and if we've got such a good system, why do we want to change it?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Dillard.

are right, Senatcr Jacobs. We are very fortunate in Illinois ta have one of *he finest systems of public higher education in the world. But thinky along with elementary and secondary education, which we have discussed earlier here today, a1l of us want to make education, whether it's elenentary and secondary or higher education, better. We have studied this. The Lieutenant Governor has gkven extensive thought to and While there may not have been a task force in the last year Eo eighheen 95  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 months, believe mer under the dome here the Capitol Building and around the State of Illinoisz there are many of us who have spent a great deal of time talking abouk èhis. And think it is the right time to fine tune an already good system of higher education, bu* take it to a new plane and make it the best that it can be. And again, Senator Jacobs, most private universitles have indivldual boards. The tremendous universities of this country govern themselves, whether they're private or public, but mostly privater like we want to do in this bill.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Jacobs.

Well, not to belabor the point, 'cause I'm not going to do that, but I think when we 're talking K through 12r we have some reason to make some adjustments. And I went along uith some of those -- those things that hopefully will make some difference. But I think there 's a tremendous amount of difference whenever you have a system that is broken and one that is not. And -- and ln reference to -- to the private colleges, I think that counters your argument because the reason the *he private colleges have their their own boards and they run their own cperations because they are private, and they must then go out and compete for the dollars that are available with every other private and public college. .And I think by maklng the seven separate boards, wefve done ncthing except create a a -- a system whereby everycne ls just golng to go oue and *ry to gouge the obher one ko make sure they :et thelr fair share. I think the system We've got ts working and we should remain wtth

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any further discussion? Senator Burzynski. SENATOR BURZYNSKI) Thank you, Mr. President. I'd just like to state that I rise 96  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 support of this plece of legislatlon. Either as the sponsor or cosponsor for the time that I've been in the General Assemblyr think that the merits of the argument still stand and remain the same that they have over the last several years. But in particular, to address some of the needs that we have in some of our universities, certainly our university system has flourished, and being a representative of Northern Illinois University, Northern has flourished under the Board of Regents; however, it's at a point in time now when it's time to move on to change in order to allow the university to grow even mare. And the same wlth our other universlties the State of Illincis. So wholeheartedly support this and would urge my colleagues to vote an Aye on this neasure.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any further dlscussion? Senator Demuzio, for a seccnd time.

Thank you, Mr. President. I want to ctear up a couple quick pcints, Senator Dillard. University of Illinois at Chlcago and Champalqn have no academic bargaining units at -- currently; however, they do have bargaining units for other nonacademic services. Do they now bargain colleckively between -- with both institutions, Chicago and -- and Champalgn collectively, or do they bargain separately?

PRESIDING OFF.ICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Dillard.

Senator Demuzio, as I understand itr on those two campuses at the U of I today, for service type of employees, they do bargain individually at those campuses. But the difference between service enployees and faculty members who are professional indkviduals that the Eaculty is part and parcel - the integral part - of the university that has an impact on students ' lives and 97  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 their academlc careers, and there's a difference between bargainin: for service employees and professional faculty.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Demuzio.

guess that's why Southern Illinois University has two different bargaining units for academics. Thank you.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any further discussion? 1: not, Senator Dillard, to close.

Thank you, Mr. President: Ladles and Gentlemen of the Senate. Just to clarify a couple of points that came up during the debater before I summarize why I believe this is an excellent bill for students ln Illinois higher education. First of all, one of the reasons we make *he change as we do with respect to Sangamon State University 's faculty is we want the University of Illinois to be one system. can't think of anyone who can think or fall to believe that faculty members who are at Sangamon State University today will not improve their status as university professionals by teaching at the Universlty of Illinois as cpposed to Sangamon State Universkty. Now that is not a cut at Sangamon State University or its faculty, but I believe that al1 of us know thaE being part of one of the wcrld 's greatest institutions of higher education will enhance Sangamon State University and, most importantly, its faculty. worked extensivelyy along with a number of you on that side of the aisle, in particular when I was the staff person for Governor Jim Edgar who lobbked this Body for the passage of the Illinois Education Labor Relations Act. I believe in collective bargaining for faculty and for educational employees in the State of Illinois, and ln fact, it has Worked very, very well in Illinois. Certainly, I do not view this as an affront or any type of anti-union activity . And you are right: 98  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legtslative Day February 9, 1995 Senator Demuzio, I will say that the University of Illlnols at Springfield's faculty can convince those at Champaign-urbana and in Chicago, the entire University of Illinols faculty sysEem can be union, and in that respect, this is a pro-union bill. believe the faculty be much better off at Sangamon State Universityr as a whole, by being part of the University of Illinois. Senator Hawkinson mentloned joint purchaslng and *he ability and elimination of pooling arrangements. This bill has a provision in which encourages the pooling of leqal services, the purchases of pensr paper clips, of those types of services. So we will not lose those economies of scale. The Board of Higher Education powers: which were brcught up by two Members of this Body, will be addressed separately. We will certaînly bave plenty of debaEe and certainly have a lot of inpuE on whatever, if any, new powers we give the Board of Higher Education. And lastly, any of us in this Bcdy that do not think that compekltiveness goes on now between public higher education institutions in Illinois, belleve, is naive. Maybe I get different mail than you do. do have an extremely close relationship with public higher education, but let me tell you: We al1 know especially those of us who serve on the Appropriations Committee - that these universities, as they should, fight part and parcely as well as those people who live in their. regions, for the appropriate appropriation levels from this General Assembly, and it won't make a difference whether they have an individual board or whether they're part of the Board of Regents, the Board of Governors. Let me just close by saylng that this legislation streamlines the struckure of higher education by eliminating Nhat believe is unngcessary intermediate bureaucracies. The bill clarifies lines of accountability by making the university presidents and their administration directly accountable to a board of one institution. 99  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 ; And most importantly, a student, a parent, a faculty member, Senator Demuziop or people who are in the region - the residents, the business people - can make their complalnts or suggestions locally to a board that Will be on their campus much more than it is today, and not some bureaucrat here in Springfield. And I believe this bill, while it is not absolutely quantifiable, will save money fcr the State of Illincis. I would urge the passage cf Senate Bill 241, the -- of higher education, which is long overdue. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDVCZ) The questicn is, shall Senate Bill 24l pass. Those in favcr will vote Aye. Opposed will vote Nay. And the voting is open. Have a11 voted who wish? Have a1l voted who wish? Have a11 voted who wish? Take the record. On that question, there are 33 Ayes, 23 Nays, and none voting Present. And Senate Bill 241, having received the required constitutional majority, is declared passed. Committee Reports, Madam Secretary. ACTING SECRETARY HAWKER: Senator Weaver, Chairman of the Committee on Rules, reports that the followin: Legislative Measures have been asslgned to committees; Senate Bills 299 and 300 - referred to the Agriculture and Conservation Committee; Senate Bills 302: 313, 320, 354 and 355 - referred to Commerce and Industry Committee; Senate Bills 292, 297, 341, 342, 343, 365, 366: 367 and 373 and 377 - referred to the Education Committee; Senate Bills 327, 328, 364 and Senate Join: Resolution 17 - referred to *he Environment and Energy Committee; Senate Bills 289, 298, 335, 339, 361, Senate Joint Resolukion 18 and Senate Amendment No . 2 to Senate Joint Resoluticn l - referred to the Executive Committee; Senate Bills 304, 351, 352, 353, 356 and 374 - referred to the Financial Institutions Ccmmittee; Senate Bills -- pardon me, 287, 294: 301, 307, 308, 323, 324, 329, 340, 346, 347, 348: 349, 376 and Senate l00 I  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Amendment No. to Senate Bill lO2 - referred to Insurance, Pensions and Licensed Activlties Committee; Senake Bills 240, 291, 303, 338, and 360 referred the Judiciary Committee; Senate Bills 306: 314, 316, 321: 322 and 330 - referred to the Local Government and Elections Committee; Senate Bills 293, 309: 331, 334, 358, 359, 362 and 378 referred to the Public Health and Welfare Conmittee; Senate Bills 285, 288, 295, 296, 325, 368, 369, 37l and 372 - referred to the Revenue Committee; Senate Bills 286, 290, 333, 336, 337, 375 referred to the State Government Operations Ccmmittee; Senate Bills 305, 310, 311, 350, 363 - referred to the Transportation Committee; and Senate Amendment No . ta Senate Resolution 10 Be Approved for Consideration.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Madigan, fcr what purpose dc you rise?

Thank you, Mr. President. Purpose of an announcement that the Senate Committee on Insurance, Pensions and Licensed Activities Committee will meet in Room 400 immediately upon adjcurnment. We want to consider a Floor amendment. It'11 be a very short meeting, and would ask the Members to be prompt and on time. Thank your Mr. President.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) On the middle of page 5 of your regular Calendars, we have Senate Bills 3rd Reading. Senate B111 242. Read *he bill, Madam Secretary

Senate Bill 342 -- pardon me, Senate Bill 242. (Secretary reads tikle of bill) 3rd Reading of the bill.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Dillard. l01  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995

Thank you, President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. Senate Bill 242 is the companion bill, somewhat, to what we just passed, which was the reorganization of higher education. This is another higher edueation reorganization bill, and it is a bill that I think I get a number of questions from my constituents about. And what it does is it changes the University of Illinois Board of Trustees from an unknown -- a relatively unknown elecbed nine-member Board statewide to a nine-member Board appolnted by the Governor for staggered six-year terms. believe also something that is well-needed in the State of Illinois. think I get a 1ot of complatnts as go around my district that there are far too many pecple that my constituents do not know on the ballot. They don't know who some of these people are, and as you all know, because we are involved in political life, the real purpose or one of the appointed purposes of the University of Illinois Board of Trustees is ue use it to see whether areas are Republlcan or Democratlc by nature, because voters tend to just vote straight party lines as to what's in their gut on that particular electicn day because they don't know who these people are. And we believe that going an appointed Board Trustees is a better way to gor and it also : I believe, will take needless names off of the statewide electton ballot so that people can focus on those races, including legislative races and local races, that they should be payin: more attention to. And I'd move iEs adoption.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDXCZ) Is there any discussion? Senator Hall.

Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. Will the sponsor yield?

PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR DUDVCZ) l02  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Sponsor indicates he Will yield. Senator Hall.

When did this happen that a1l of a sudden that -- I have a lady - very high-class lady - former regicnal superintendent of schools was elected to the Board of the University of Illinois. Woman hasn't been in the cfflce at -- well, you know. Ycu're well aware of that. Her name's Mrs. O'Malley. She 's a top-notch person throughout the whole State. As a matter of fact, I was beginning to wonder, when she Was up there all that timer when they were swearing in everybodyr and she was the lone person in the State of Illinois who is a Democrat that was elected. NOW, this lady campaigned throughout the State. She did al1 these things. Top-notch person. Everybody has nothing but the greatest of praise. Now are you ccming along here to say that -- well, the first thing I ought to ask: Who's going to make these appointees now?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Dillard.

Senator Hall, the Governor will make th%se appointments. And had the pleasure of meeting Mrs. O 'Malley at the inauguration about a month ago, and if khe Governor finds her as qualified as you and I and some others believe thak she is, Ehere's no reascn she cannot go on -- back on the Board of the U of I under the new process.

PRESIDINC OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senakor Hall.

Well, rige in strong opposition for this. It's -- it's -- you know, really a shame for a person to campaign throughout State and here, with a couple of monkhs, we come here and we make these changes altogether. It's -- it's really sad . You are 103  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislativq Day February 9, 1995 going to lose one of the -- *he greatest minds, with thls lady, she's there. Now, we always have a problem when comes to making appointmentsy fcr the Governor to make these appointments for that -- I questioned some of these appointees when Governor Thompson was here. And I said, ''Say, When are you going to appoint some people downstater ' had one person who -- that I was told, ''Wel1, the reason that -- we -- we got a universi*y down there.'' I said, ''Wait a minute. We have a university in Edwardsville, too.'' But to make a long story short, even though it's just -- kt's really -- to take a person like that, have them campaign al1 over this State and almost, to add insult to injury, if you remember, she was a lone Democrat who was elected and when it came Eime, why, her son, who was a judge, was up there swearing her in. The band was beginning to close up. She hardly got a chance to even get up there. That was an affrcnt to herz along with EhaE. And just resent those kind of thlngs that's happened. And I'm happy you had an opportunity to meet her. And, you know, she's -- but the point is that now youlre going to take everybody off the Board and *he Governor's going to appoint them . Is this -- when does this take effect, the bill passes and he signs it ënto law?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Dillard.

The would take effect in January of 1996, and *he terms iniEially would be staggered, and the Eerms are longer than *hose terms of a sitting Gcvernor, so you Would have staggered: longer terms. Somebody would be on the University of Illinois Board of Trustees longer than perhaps in the Governor's Office.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDXCZ) Senator Hall.

l04  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 I'm terribly upset about this. This is an affrcnt, if there ever was one. And it's just sad to have this person come -- she was asked to be on the Board. She'd been regional superintendent. She did a great job throughout the State. And she was approached. Here you are -- the -- I know I haven't seen her since this bill's come up, but I know she's going to be terribly disappointed. And I'm -- I rise in strcng opposition to this.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator O 'Malley, for what purpose do you rise?

A point of personal privilege.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) State your point.

I -- I know many of us know he 's here, but I think it's appropriate that we recognize that a former Member of the Senate ls on *he Floor today, our own Lieutenant Governor Bob Kustra . Maybe we could give him a round of...

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Welcome to the Senate. Welcome to the Senate, Senator. Further discussion? Senator Palmer.

Thank your Mr. President. Here we go again, contradictions again. I'm just amazed that we would be in -- on this Floor considering doing away wlth the democratic process. If we're not happy with people elected statewide, then we certalnly have some other ways of doing this. They were mentioned at the committee hearins yesterday - electlons by districts - other means are possible. Thks bill fails to consider any of those. NoW here we have the same group that put upcn us elections and local school councils and so forth in the name of democracy: which I support, and yet here we are, taking it awayr on the other hand. One of l05  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 the advantages of an elected Board of Trustees for the largest university in the State of Illinois, which is now becoming an ever-larger system, is that the people in one small way have the ( ability to provide a check and balance With the university administration and with the Governor's Office. I want you to understand, fellow legislators, uhat you are doing when you pass this bill, if you do so, and I hope you Won't. You are investing in one person's hands the power to appoint the boards of a11 the universities in the State of Illinoisy with no check and balance in any o*her way. I think that's wrong, and I Ehink lt's a dangerous precedent to start. I don't care Where else they do this; we have been, I think, much better served by having cne of our boards, at least, elected.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any further discussion? Senator Carroll.

Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. I do recognize that November 8*h was the beginning of a whcle HNewt'' World and we saw that changeover take place, but I find it ironic that the one place where the Republican Party has been unable to win the elections happens to be the University of Illinois trustees. Sc what we see is where they could not: in thelr ''Newt'' world, achieve the victories at the ballot box, they want to steal, instead, from the rights of the peopler With a pen. What they cannot win with the mark at the box, they Will noW steal with the Governor's signakure and take away the people's right ko elect who they Want to run the university systemr in order to take over Republican control. I think that's al1 this is about.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any further discussion? Senator Welch. SENATOR WELCH : I Thank you, Mr. President. Senator Molaro had an amendment to I l 106  STATE OF ZLLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 this bill, which unfortunately was not attached to l*, and that l I raises an important issue - probably far more impcrtant than whether the U of I Board is elected or not - and that is the issue about the ever-increasing cost of going to the University of Illknois and other cokleges and universities throughout the State of Illinois. Since 1991, September cf 1991, welve had increases in four straight years: 4.9 percentr 17.2 percent, 4.9 percent and 5.6 percent - a thirty-six percent increase, while inflation has only risen twelve percent. We've talked about capping taxes for taxpayers. Why don't we do something for middle class taxpayers that will really help them , and that is capping tuition? We should put an amendment on this bill that says that tuition will not continue to skyrocket far beyond the cost of inflationr far beyond the ability of individual parents to pay. I think that we should amend thls bill in the House, hopefully Senator Dillard will support that in the House and it will come back to us. Thank you.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Any further discussion? Senator Bowles. *

Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. I would like to reiterate the statemeats that have been made by Senator Palmer and Senator Carroll, in that removin: the right of choice of the voter flies in the face of a1l of our demccratic ideals. We are putting in the hands of one person the appointment of *he members of *he Board of Trustees of the University of Illlnols. I have no problem with thatr if this Body sees fiE to make this an appointive kind of position; howeverr I do believe that there should be a breakout of the people that are making these appointments, to make sure that there is minority, as well as majority, represen*ation on the Board. Thank you very much.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) 107  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Any further discussion? Senator de1 Valle. SENATOR dEL VALLE: Thank your Mr. President. A question, and then a comment.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Sponsor indicates he will yield. Senator del Valle. SENATOR dEL VALLE: Thank yOu. Does this bill require a geographlcal balance in the appointments?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Dillard.

No, does not, Senator, but the appointer of these Board of Trustees ls one of the few officials who runs statewide. And whether the Governor is a Republicanr a Democrat, a Libertarian, cr whatever, the Governor runs statewide, and I would assume that that individual, whoever she or he may be, has an interest making sure that a1l factions of Illinois, geographically or other, are Eaken care of and representatlve on the one universiEy which truly represents all of the State of Illinois.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator de1 Valle. SENATOR dEL VALLE: Senator Dillard, then 1et me make a recommendation here. When this bill gets over to the House, Would recommend that an amendment be attached to this bill that would be the amendment that respects the decision and the choice of the voters the last election, at least. I really think it's unfair to do away with the seat of an individual who was duly elected just this last election and then two years lnto a six-year term , they 're kold that's it. Regardless of What the voters decided at the ballot box, *hey dre ouE. I I quesEion whether or noE Ehis is constïtutional. But that amendment -- an amendment could be l08  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Leglslative Day February 9, 1995 added to say that those individuals who Were elected will at least be given the cpportunity to cbntinue serving on the Board until the completlon of the term that they were elected for, then I think it would make this a littler easier to take.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Is there any further discussion? If not, Senator Dillard r to close.

Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. Let me at the onset in my closing argument say that I have great admiration for those who run for the University of Illinois Board of Trustees. They travel long miles; they drive everywhere, regardless cf what political party they are With, in pursuit of what they believe is a noble thing, and thatds serving on the Board of *he University of Illinols. But let's face No one knows Who these people are, and in a time of -- of long electaral ballots, those are just extra nanes of faceless people that not many of us - even me, who's in the business of politics, like you - know where these people stand on particular issues. The bill is bipartisan in nature. And maybe there'll, in my lifetime, be a Democratic Governor and a Democratic Governor can make appointments to the Board of Trustees of the University of Illinois. But this is an attempt, also, to take politics out of educatian higher eduction - whfch I believe is important. It interjected itself recentlyr a few years agoy in the chancellorship of the University of Illinois aE Chicago, and politics has no place in the part of education. Also: it's very important to remember that while the Governor may make these appointments, the Senate has the advice and consenty under this bill, on those nominees. So if we do not like them, if we feel they are not geographically balanced or qualified, We can certainly do what we do on most gubernatorial appointees, if we 109  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Want to, and tha: reject them forthright. In terms of those who say, ''Let's elect these people because that is the better way to go; we elect local school councils and othersz'' I Nould say, yes, with local elections, perhaps we know those indivlduals better; we know where find them . But asainr these are nameless, faceless people on a ballot, that I would venture to say most people in Illinois do not know . I believe this is a better way to it's a better way to govern a major, major business and inskltution of higher learning the State of Illinols. And againr like the previous bill, it's long overdue, and appreciate a favorable vote.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) The question is, shall Senate Bill 242 pass. Those in favor will vote Aye. Opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a11 voted who wish? Have a11 voted who Wish? Have al1 voted who wksh? Take the record. On that question, there are 31 Ayes, 25 Nays, none voting Present. And Senate Bill 242, having recelved the requlred constitutional majorityr is declared passed. Senator Demuzio, for what purpose do you rise?

Well, we're just curious to see if everybcdy's here, so we would request a verification.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) That request is in order. Senator Demuzio has requested a verification of Senate Bill 242. W111 a11 Senators be in their seats? Will a11 Senators be in their seats? The Secretary will read the affirmative votes.

The following Members voted in *he affirmative: Barkhausenr Burzynski, Butler, Cronin, DeAngells, Dillard, Donahue, Dudycz, Ralph Dunn, Fawell, Fitzgerald, Geo-Karis, Hasara, Hawkinsony Karplel, Lauzen, Madigan, Mahar, Maitlandr O 'Malley, Parker, l10  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Peterson, Petka, Raica, Sieben, Syverson, Walsh, Watson, Weaver, Woodyard, and Mr. President.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Does Senator Demuzio question the presence of any Member voting in the affirmative?

Senator Ralph Dunn, who just came back on the Floor. Senator DeAngelis?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator DeAngelis. Senator DeAngelis. Is Senator DeAngelis in the Chamber? Madam Seeretary, strike his name. Is does Senator Demuzio...

Senator Syverson?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Syverson is standing next ko Senator Watson.

Senator Walsh?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senatcr Walsh is in the Chamber.

Senator Parker?

FRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Senator Parker in her seat.

Let's try Senator DeAngelis again.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DUDYCZ) Does Senakor Demuzio quesEion the presence of any other Member voting in the affirmative? On a verified roll call, the Ayes are 30, the Nays are 25, those voting Present are none. And Senate Bill 242, having recelved the required constitutional majority, is declared passed. l1l  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) It is the intention of the Chair to go to the Supplemental Calendar which has been distributed. Senator Cullerton, for what purpose do ycu rise?

Yes. I just wanted to inform the Body, Mr. President, that Senator Molaro is ill today, and Lhat's why he's not here.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Very good. The record will so reflect. Senator Madiganr for what purpose do you rise?

Thank you, Mr. President. Just to point out, as far as that posting nctice and the announcement that I made previously about the Insurance Committee meeting immedlately upon adjournment, the earliest that we would meet would be 3:30, in case we adjourn prior to 3:30. And I just wanted to make that part of the record. Thank you, Mr. President.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Everyone should have their Supplemental Calendar No. 1. It should be on your desk. We're going to proceedr and we will start at the top with Senate Bill 8, Which is sponsored by Senator Watson. I would like leave to possibly go back to that at a later point during the day. Senate Bill 20. Senator Weaver. Senator Weaver. Madam Secretary, please read the bill. .

Senate Bill 20. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. The Committee on Executive adopted one Conmittee amendment.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Have there been any Floor amendments that have been approved for consideration? 1 l12  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Leqlslative Day February 9, 1995

No further amendments reported, Mr. President.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) 3rd Reading. Senate Bill 48. Senator Mahar. Madam Secretary, please read the bill.

Senate 48. (Secretary reads Eitle of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. No ccmmittee or Floor amendments.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) 3rd Readkng. Senate Bt1l 76. Senator Peterson. Out of the reccrd. Senate Bill 105. Senator Fawell? Senator Fawell on the Floor? Out of the record. Senator Hasara, on Senate Bill 113. Madam Secretary, please read the bill.

Senate Bi11 (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bl11. No committee or Floor amendments reported.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Reading. Senate Bill Senator Raica? Madam Secrekary, please read the bill.

Senate Bill 159. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Readlng of the bill. The Commlt*ee on Public Hea1th and Welfare adopted tWo Committee amendments.

PREGIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Have there been any Floor anendments that have been apprcved for consideration?

No furEher amendmen*s reported, Mr. Presidenb. 1l3  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) 3rd Reading. Senate Bill 160. Senator Sieben? Senator Sieben. Out of the record. Senate Bill 177. Senator Welch? Madam Secretary, please read the bill. ACTING SECRETARY HAWKER: Senate Bil1 177. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. The Committee on Executive adopted Committee Amendment No. 1. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Have there been any Floor amendments that have been approved for consideration? ACTING SECRETARY HAWKER: No further amendments reported. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) 3rd Reading. Senate Bill 182. Senator Rauschenberger. Madam Secretary, please read the bill. ACTING SECRETARY HAWKER: Senate Bill 182. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. The Committee on Energy and -- pardon me. The Committee on Environment and Energy adopted Ccmmittee Amendment No. 1. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) . Have there been any Floor amendments that have been approved for consideration? ACTING SECRETARY HAWKER: No further amendments reported, Mr. President. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) 3rd Reading. Senate Bill 203. Senator Trotter. Senator Tratter on the Floor? 0ut of the record. With leave af the Body, we would like to go back to Senate Bill 160. Senator Sieben. ' 114 I  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Madam Secretary, would you please read the bill.

Senate Bill 160. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. The Committee on Environment and Energy adopted Committee Amendment No. 1.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Have there been any Floor amendments that have been approved for consideration?

No further amendments reported.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) 3rd Reading. Madam Secretary, would you please read Senate Bill 211.

Senate Bill 211. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Readlng of the bill. No committee or Floor amendments reported.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) 3rd Reading. Senatcr Hawkinson? Senator Hawkinson. 214. Out of the record. Senator Parker? Madam Secretary, please read the bill. ACTING SECRETARY HAWKER : . Senate B1l1...

PRESIDINC OFFICER: (SENATOR WATEON) Senate Bill 216.

Senake Bill 216. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. No committee or Floor amendments reported. I 115  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Leglslative Day February 9, 1995

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) 3rd Reading. Senate Bill 217. Senator Carroll? Madam Secretaryr please read the bill.

Senate Bill (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. No committee or Floor amendments reported. PRESIDTNG OFFICER) (SENATOR WATSON) 3rd Reading. Senator Madigan, on Senate Bill 225. Would you please read the billy Madam Secretary.

Senate Bill 225. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. No committee or Floor amendments reported.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) 3rd Reading. Senate Bill 238. Senator O'Daniel. Madam Secretary, please read the bill.

Senake Bill 238. (Secretary reads title of bill) Reading the bill. No committee or Floor amendments reported.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) 3rd Readinq. SenaEe Bill 253. Sena*or Mai*land . Madam Secretary, please read the bill.

Senate Bill 253. (SecreEary reads Eitle of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. The Committee on Executive adopted Committee Amendmenk No. 1l6  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Leglslatlve Day February 9, 1995

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Have there been any Floor amendments that have been approved for conslderatlon?

No further amendments reported, Mr. President.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Reading. We are on page 3 of the Supplemental Calendar, under House Bills 2nd Readingr and we find House Bill 200. Senator Dudycz. Please read the bill, Madam Secretary.

House Bill 200. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. The Committee on Revenue adopted Canmittee Amendment No.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Have there been any Floor amendments that have been approved for consideration?

No further amendments reported, Mr. President.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Reading. ...intention the Chair to go back to 3rd Readlng and go back through the Calendar one more time. That would be on page 3. Senate Bills 3rd Reading. It's the intention Eo go to Senate Bill 25. Senator Jacobs. Senator Jacobs, on the Order of 3rd Reading, Senate Bill 25. Madam Secretary, Would you please read the bill.

Senate Bill 25. (Secretary reads title of bill) 3rd Reading of the bill.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Jacobs. l17  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Leglslative Day February 9, 1995

Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. This a that came out of committee, unanimously. What does, lt allows a school district who has surplus school safety funds to use those funds to construct a cafeteria for the purpose of closing a campus during the lunch period. This was brought about because in my area of a -- of a school district that had some deaths for -- from kids being ou* at lunch, a number of accidents and because of a 1ot of trouble in the -- in the areas adjoining that in regards to shoplifting and some of the other issues. I know of no -- no known opposition and ask for your support.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Is there any discussion? If not, Senator Jacobsz you may close.

Just ask for an Aye vote.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) The questlon is, shall Senate Bill 25 pass. Thcse in favor will vote Aye. Opposed: vote No. The votin: is open. Have al1 voted who wish? Have voted who wlsh? Have voted who Wish? Take the record. On that question, there are 54 voting Yes, no voting No, no voting Present. Senate Bill 25, having received the required constitutlonal majorlty, is declared passed. Senator Jacobs, on Senate Bill 26. Madam Secretary, please read the bill.

Senate Bill 26. (Secretary reads title of bill) 3rd Reading of *he bill.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Sena*or Jacobs. 118  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995

Yes. Thank you, President, Ladies and Gentlemen cf the Senate. Here's a bill that we -- I got from NCSL. There was a request by the National Humane Society for the State to act in regards to horse tripping. kncw knew nokhing about horse tripping, and know that the committee did nct. We showed a video. And what thls would do, would bar in Illinois the -- the tripping of horses by virtue of either roping and/or poling thelr front legs. What this does, it's a spcrt -- called a sport whereby they lasso the front legs of the horse, pull the legs cut from underneath -- underneath the horse: causing it to tumble, and in most cases, breaking legsz neckr et cetera. Soy it's an issue that I think whose time has come, and there are couple of areas kn the State of Illinois Where this is happening. And we just feel it's time to outlaw it.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further discussion? Senator Garcia.

Thank you, Mr. President. To the sponsor: Senakor Jacobs, have you ever lassoed a horse?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Jacobs.

I have trouble riding a horse.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senakor Garcia.

Wellr that's precisely my point. I'm not sure that youbre qualified to be the sponsor of this type of legislation, and I just Wanted that on the record. Thank you.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Is there any further discussion? fena*or Jacobs, ko close. l19  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995

Just ask for an Aye vote.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) The question is, shall Senate Bi11 26 pass. Those in favor, vote Aye. Opposed, vote No. The voting is open. Have al1 voted who wish? Have voted who wish? Have voted Who Wish? Take the record. On that question, there are 53 votlng Yes, l voting No; no votlng Present. Senate Bill 26, having received the required constitutional majority, is declared passed. On a roll, here . Senator Jacobs, on Senate Bill 28. Madam Secretaryr please read the bill.

Eenate Bill 28. (Secretary reads title of bill) 3rd Reading of the bill.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Jacobs.

Thank you -- thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of *he Senate. This is a bill that currentky the State of Illinois immune and also countles are immune from civil liability when you go to -- to -- it's an immunity for -- When they go to community programs. And this bill would allow a municipality to be Ammune frcm liability whenever they went to community programs for city ordinance violations and traffic violations. puts in sync with the rest of the law. Again, I know of no -- no known opposition and ask for support.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Is there any discussion? Seeing none, the question isr shall Senate Bill 28 pass. All those in favor, vote Aye. Opposed, votg No. The voting is open. Have al1 voted whc wish? Have al1 voted who wish? Have a1l voted who wish? Take the record. On that 120  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 question, there are voting Yes, no voting No, no votlng Present. Senate Bill 28, having received the required constitutional majority, is declared passed. Senator Woodyard, on Senate Bill 4l. Out of the record. Senate Bill 42. Senator Woodyard. Out of the record. Senate Bill 43. Out of the record. And 44, also out of *he record. Senate Bill Senator Maitland? Out of the record. Skip 51 and 52. Senate Bill 54. Senator Woodyard? Senate Bill 55. Senator Weaver. Out of the record. Senate Bilk 58. Senator Molaro. Out of the record . Senator Geo-Karis, on Senate out the record. Senate Bill 75. Senator Butler? Madam Secretary, please read the bill.

Senate Bill 75. (Secretary reads title of bill) 3rd Reading of the bill.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Butler.

Thank you, Ladies and Gentlemen. We talked about fast tracks. This should be one. Last year on Senate Bill 1302, which left this Senate by an overwhelmtng votey we -- a date -- a very essentlal date was inadvertently omittedy and a1l this bill does is to add that date in the proper Section. And I would appreciate your support.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Any discusslon? Seeing none, the question is, shall Senate Bill 75 pass. A11 those in favor, vote Aye. Opposed, vote No. The voting is open. Have a11 voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have a11 voted who wish? Take the record. On thak question, there are 55 voting Yes, no voting No, no voting PresenE. Senate Bill 75, having received *he required constitutional majority, is declared passed. Senate Bill 77 is 12l  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9: 1995 out of the record. Senate Bill Senator Rauschenberger. 0ut of the reccrd. Senate Bill 79, Senator Fitzgerald, out of the record. Senate Bill 86. Senator Fawell. Senator Fawell? Out cf the record. Senate Bill 87. Senator Lauzen. Out cf the record. Senate Bill Senator -- Severns. Excuse me. Senator Severns? Madam Secretary, please read the bill.

Senate Bill 95. (Secretary reads title of bill) 3rd Reading af the bilk.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Severns.

Thank you, Mr. President, Members of the Senate. This bill simply brings into line the Policemen 's Downstate Pension Fund to provide that once a Widow renarrlesr that she does not forfeit she or he - does not forfeit their pension benefits. Right now, that's the language that the firefighters have, and we're just trying to bring into line the language for the policemen 's pension fund, as well. f had an lndlvidual in my district who had thls problem, and I know of no opposition. The cost, at least based on the Illinois Economic and Fiscal fiscal note, Would be insigntficant.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further discussion? Senator Dudycz.

Thank your Mr. President. Just a brief question of the sponsor, if I may.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) The sponsor will yield, Senator Dudycz.

Senator Severns: you say this affects just the dounstate and 122  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 suburban police pension article. Do -- da the current police in Chicago have this provision at Because I'm unaware of that.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Severns.

Apparentlyr -- is into effect after the age sixty.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Dudycz.

Well: thank you. I just have been told that it's in the follcwing bill. So, thank you.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Any further -- any further discussion? Seeing none, Senator Severns, you wish to close?

would just urge a favorable vote. Thank you.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) The question is, shall Senate B111 95 pass. A1l those in favorr vote Aye. Opposed, vote No. The voting is open. Have a1l voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have a11 voted who wish? Take the record. On that question, khere are 53 voting Yes, no voting Nor no voting Present. Senate Bill 95, having received the required constitutional majority, is declared passed. Senate Bill 97. Senator Pawell. Out of tbe record. Senate Bill 99. Senator Raica. Madam Secretary, please read the bill.

Senate Bill 99. (Secretary reads title of bill) 3rd Reading of the bill.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATEON) Senator Raica.

l23  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 1995 Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. Senate Bill 99 amends the Chicago Police Pension Article to implement an agreement between the Fraternal Order of Poltce and the City of Chicago. The bill, as amended, increases tc seven hundred dollars per month, beginning January 1, 1996, the minimum of the widows' annuity. It then provides for duty disability benefit payable for at least ten years and shall be at least fifty percent of the current salary attached to that rank. In additiony for annuitants born before January l of 1945, it presents a three percent automatic annual increase the annuity, allows such an increase to begin at age fifky-five, rather than age sixty. And finally: it provides that a duty disability for officers with at least ten years of service who are disabled by heart disease. This was very little debate in committee, and it Was agreed to by the City of Chicago and the Fraternal Order of Police.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further discusslon? Senator Walsh: for his maiden voyage. END OF TAPE TAPE 4

Thank youg Mr. President. Will the Senator yield?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) The Senator will yield, Senator Walsh.

just wanted to clarify, Senator Ralca, have a situation in my district, where we have a police widow Whose husband was ktlled in 1948 in the llne of duty . She was -- he was five months short 124  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 of ten years of service, and because of that, she has not been eligible. Because he did not have ten years of service, she has not been eligible for increased pension benefits. just wanted to make sure that that this situation would be handled in this bill.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Ralca. SENATOR RAICA ; Senator Walsh, currently the law states if you -- you needed ten years of service on a job prior to collecting. We are now changing that stipulation here and the date is removed. So: whether you had one year or two years, or the ten years, thls individual will be taken care of.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further discussion? Senator Jones.

Yeah. Thank you, Mr. President. The benefits in here, are these beneflts that will be dealt wlth as it relate to the Chicago pension system? Will it impact on the Chicago penslon system?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Question of the sponsor. Senator Ralca, do you wish to respond? Senator Raica.

would imagine since it pertains to the Fraternal Order of Police, and they are Chicago pollce officers, the answer would have to be yes, Senator.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Jones.

What impact would it have on the -- the taxes? I know *he property taxes of the City of Chicago pay the pension system . Would this have any impact on the property taxes paid by the l25  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 1995 residenEs of the City of Chicago?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Raica.

Well, thank you, Mr. President. Senator Jones, I would have to say that being an election year and the Mayor of the Clty of Chicago, very cognizant of the fact that taxpayers don't want to pay higher property tax ratesg thak he would have taken this all in consideration, and he did sign off on it With the Fraternal Order of Police.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Jones.

guess they endorsed him -- I appreciate that very much. But I -- I was trying to get at some of the provisions in there. We have another provision for a three-percent compound. I know we in the legislature have a three-percent compound that hits at age fifty. Could you explain what that three-percent compoundlng is, and why is -- is it for a11 policeman, or just for a select few?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Raica.

Senator Jones, the bill states that the annual three-percent post-retirenent increases at age fifty-five instead of sixty for those born before 1945 and having more than twenty years of servkce at retirement. The bill eliminates the thirty-percent maximum increase for any police officer Who has terminated service prior or before the effective date of the amendatory Act.

PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Jones.

Well, how many people how may persons on *he police 126  STATE 0F ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legistative Day Pebruary 9, 1995 department would that three-percent conpounding impact? When you're lowering it just for those individuals: how many policemen Will be impacted by such?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Raica.

Senator Jones, I don't have those figures in front of me at this point in time. They were not brought up in committee when the hearing was -- was taking place, but I -- I Would imagine they Were brought up between the City and -- and the Fraternal Order of Police.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Jones.

Well, what I'm trying to get at, why -- Why do you have a particular age -- a particular date for one to be -- to be included in the khree-percent compounding? Why didn't -- why why you put that particular date? I'm quite sure yousre trying to limit to a -- a very select few. Is that what you 're attempting to do? Well, why do you have the year 1945? What about the policenen who serve -- were born in 1950? Why are you discriminating against those persons who were born after 1945?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Raica.

Thank you, Mr. Presiden*. Senator Jones, this was an agreement that was reached between the City and the Fraternal Order of Police. I Was not at the neeting that was held. I Was merely asked to carry the plece of legislation, so I can't stand here and lie to you . I don't have an answer for that question.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Jones. 127  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLX REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Leçislative Day February 9, 1995

Yeah . You bekng a very great Senator, and my good friend, know you would not lie. A11 I was trying to find out, why the discrimination for the rest of the police Who serve; why you're not permitting them at age fifty-five to receive the same three-percent compounding at age fifty-five than slxty. Why are you just trylng to have a select group? Perhaps -- I know the City -- you know, I live in the City. I think you -- I don't know whether you live -- you live in the City, also. But We you know, we had a property tax-cap bill and this is a special -- this is a special interest for a select few . A11 was trying to do ls find out why. The City should have told you that.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further discussion? Senator Dudycz.

Thank you, Mr. President. Flrst of all, Senator Jones, was born in 1950, and this provision you are referring to will not affect me. And I'd like to -- I'd like to declare a possible conflict, since I am an active Chicago police officer, but because the majority of the bill will not affect mez it will be affecting the current police widows and orphans of our fallen pclice officers in the City of Chicago, I will be voting my conscience. But have been assured by those members of the Fraternal Order of Police and every representative of the City who bas come to my offlce and strongly supported this bill they said that they Worked ouh Ehe dlfferences. And even though Ehey would have liked have had people like myself covered in them, because of the tax-cap legislation and other fiscal matters, they're trying to keep *he cost down, and the fiscal impact to the City Will not be great; will be minimal. And I guess that's i*. I jusb hope that everybody wlll support

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) l28  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislatlve Day February 9, 1995 Further discussion? Senator Raica, to close.

Mr. President, just that think...

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Jones, for what reason do you rise?

Thank you, Mr. President. I apolcgize for rising a second time, but I was not referring to you, Senatcr Dudycz, as such. Because know you are nuch younger than that. You may look a little older, but -- but what I was referring to is that -- cannot understand why you're going to penalize those persons born after 1945 who serve on the department. know I have a district wlth a 1ot of Chicago police personnel, but why are you just going to penalize -- it seems to me you're just trying to take care of a very select group. But this is what you call a hidden tax increase on the property owners of the City of Chicago, because it's a tax levy that takes care of the pensions the City of Chicago. And those individuals who talk about curbing and holding down the cost of government, this is a tax increase, because it is paid for by the kaxpayers of *he CiEy of Chicago. I am for taking care the widows and the orphans and so forthr but let's be honest about it# because this is -- this does deal With the tax base of the City of Chicago .

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Is there further discussion? Seeing none, Senator Raica: to close.

Senator Jones, I just -- ycu know, with the speech you just gave: -- I guess it helped, because I can't slow your Members down; theylre coming over here to be hyphenated sponsors. I can't sign the slips fast enough. But even more than that, I meany you did bring up a good point. And I -- I think the reason that 129  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT l:th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Was done instead of going flfty -- age fifty-flve across the board - - obviously I flnd it kind of hard because you were the person that sponsored a11 the pension bills for police and firefighters, and noW you're actually giving an argument against pollce and firefighters. So I'm lost there just a little bit. But would be willing, and since the Fraternal Order of Police are here the president ls here, Mr. Nolan - think that you brought up an excellent point; that I Would sponsor legtslation, that regardless if the City of Chicago 's opposed to it or not, which they probably will be, to allow police officers and firefighters as age fifty-five, regardless of birth date. I'd be more than willlng to sponsor that with your and -- and I would like thank you for that. Otherwiser I would just ask the the Membership for their gracious Aye vote on Senate Bill 199 <sic> for the Fraternal Order of Police .

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Question isr shall Senate Bill 99 pass. A11 those in favor, vote Aye. Opposed, vote No. The voting is open. Have all voted who Wish? Have al1 voted who wish? Have a11 voted who wish? Take the record. On that question, there are 52 voting Yes, no voting No, no voting Present. Senate Bill 99, having received the required constitutional majority, is declared passed. That effectively concludes 3rd Readlng for today. And, Senator Fitzgerald, for what Leason do you rise?

Mr. President, I just would llke the record to reflec* thak I intended Eo vote No on Senate Bill 25. If the record could so reflect, I1d appreciate it.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Thank you. Senator Madigan, for What purpose do you rise? Senator Madlgan. Senator Madigan.

130  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 Thank you, Mr. President. We've had some discussions, and it is no* necessary for the Insurance Committee to meet at 3:30. So the Insurance Commlttee meeting that was previously posted is ! cancelled. Thank you, Mr. President. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Thank you. Por a1l practical purposes, that concludes our business. We have some paperwork that the Secretary needs to read into the record, and that would be Introduction of Bills. SECRETARY HARRY: Senate Bill 392, by Senator Woodyard. (Secretary reads tltle of bill) Senate Bill 393, by Senators Peterson, DeAngelis and Dillard. (Secretary reads title of bill) PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Hall, for what purpose do you rise? SENATOR HALL: Some information, Mr. -- Mr. President. What time do we cone in tomorrow morning? PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) That's a good question, Senator. It's 8:30 in the morning, and wesre going to try to start pronptly . So, 8:30 tomorrow morning we will proceed with our Session. SENATOR HALL: Thank you. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Thank you. Mr. Secretary, Introduction of Bills. SECRETARY HARRY: GenaEe Bill 394, by Senators PeEerson, DeAngelis and Dillard. (Secretary reads title of btll) I Senate Bill 395, by Senators Fawell and Parker. i (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 396, by Senator DeAngelis. l31 !  STATE 0F ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 ' (Secretary reads tttle of bi1l) Senate Bill 397, by Senator Philip. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 398, by Senatcrs Madlgan and Cullerton. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 399, by Senator Barkhausen. (Secretary reads title of bkkl) Senate Bill 400, by Senatcr Barkhausen. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 401, by Senator DeAngelis. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 402, by Senators Fitzgerald, Dillard and Barkhausen. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 403, by Senator Shaw. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 404, by Senator Rauschenberger. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 406 <sicl (405), by Senator Klemm. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 406, by Senator Carrcll. (Secretary reads title of bill) Senate Bill 407, by Senator Fitzgerald. (Secretary reads title of bill) And Senate Bill 408, by Senator Fitzgerald . (Secretary reads title of bill) lst Reading of the bills.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Mr. Secretary, Messages from *he House .

A Message from the House by Mr. McLennand, Clerk. Mr. President - I am directed to inform the Senate Ehat 132  STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 14th Legislative Day February 9, 1995 ' the House of Representatives has adopted the following joint resolution, in the adoption of which I an instructed to ask the concurrence of the Senate, to wit: House Joint Resolution 8. Adopted by the House, February 8th, 1995.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Is there any further business to come before the Eenate? Tf not, Senator Bernan noves that the Senate stands adjourned until 8:30 a.m., Fridayr February 10th. 8:30 in the morning. Senate stands adjourned. 1 1 l33  %7'.. REPORT: TIFLDàY STATE OF ILLINOIS 96/09/11 PAGE:001 89TH GEMERAL ASSEHBLY 16:18:36 SENATE DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBâTE INDEX FEBRUâRY 09, 1995 HB-02O0 SECOND READING PAGE 1 SB-0010 THIRD READING PAGE SB-0019 THIRD READING PZGE SB-002O SECOND READING PAGE SB-0022 THIRD READING PAGE SB-0025 THIRD READING PAGE SB-0025 OTHER PAGE 58-0026 THIRD REâDING PAGE SB-0028 THIRD READING PAGE SB-00R8 SECOND READING PAGE SB-0066 THIRD READING PZGE SB-0075 THIRD READING PAGE SB-008k SECOND READING PAGE SB-0095 THIRD READING PZGE SB-0099 THIRD READING PZGE SB-0109 SECOPD REâDING PAGE SB-0113 SECOMD REàDING PAGE 1 SB-012M SECOND REâDING PâGE SB-0127 SECOMD REâDING PAGE ) SB-0158 SECOND READING PAGE 5 SB-0159 SECOMD REàDING PAGE 113 SB-0160 SECOMD READING PAGE 11) SB-016M SECOND READING PAGE 5 SB-0165 SECOMD REâDIMG PAGE 6 SB-0177 SECOND READING PAGE 11k SB-0180 SECOND READING PAGE 6 SB-0182 SECOMD REàDING PAGE 11k 58-0205 SECOKD REàDING PAGE 6 SB-02O6 SECOND READING PAGE 6 8B-0211 SECOND READING PAGE 115 SB-0216 SECOND READING PAGE 115 SB-0217 SECOND READING PAGE 116 58-0222 SECOMD REZDING PAGE 7 58-0225 SECOND READING PAGE 116 58-0238 SECOND READING PAGE 116 SB-02R1 THIRD READING PAGE 8) SB-02k2 THIRD READIKG PAGE 101 58-0253 SECOND READING PZGE 116 58-0379 FIRST READING PAGE 2 SB-0380 FIRST REâDIMG PZGE 2 SB-038: FIRST REâDING PZGE 2 58-0382 FIRST READING PAGE 2 58-0383 FIRST READING PAGE 2 SB-038R FIRST READING PAGE 2 58-0385 FIRST READING PAGE 3 58-0386 FIRST READING PZGE 3 58-0387 FIRST READING PZGE 3 58-0388 FIRST READING PAGE SB-038S FIRST REàDING PAGE SB-0390 FIRST REâDING PZGE SB-0391 FIRST READING PZGE 58-0392 FIRST READING PAGE 58-0393 FIRST READING PAGE SB-039k FIRST READING PAGE 58-0395 FIRST READING PZGE 58-0396 FIRST REZDING PZGE SB-0?97 FIRST READINC PACE 58-0398 FIRST READING PZGE 58-0399 FIRST READING PZGE SB-0MO0 FiRST READING PZGE SB-0MO1 FIRST REâDING PZGE SB-0R02 FIRST READING PâGE SB-0R03 FIRST REàDING PZGE SB-04QM FIRST READING PZGE REPQRT: TIFLDNY STAAE OF ILLINOIS 96/09/11 PZGE; 002 89TH GENERZL ZSSEMBLT 16:18:36 SENZTE DAILY TRANSCRIPTION OF DEBàTE INDEX FEBRUARY 09, 1995 3B-0V05 FIRET REZDING PAGE 132 SB-0R06 FIRST READING PZGE 1J2 3B-0407 FIRET READING PZGE 132 I SB-0R08 FIRST READING PAGE 132 HJR-0008 RESOLUTION OFFERED PZGE 133 SJR-0019 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 2 i SUBJECT HZTTER SENATE T0 ORDER-PRESIDENT PHILIP PAGE 1 PRAYER-PASTOR WEMNEBORG PAGE 1 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIAMCE PAGE 1 . JOURNALS-POSTPOMED PZGE 1 COMMITTEE REPORTS PZGE 1 COMMITTEE REPORT PAGE 100 HESSAGE FROH THE HOUSE PAGE 132 ADJOURNHENT PâGE 133 I 1