PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR WEAVER) The regular Session of the 89th General Assembly Will come to order. Will the Members please be aE Eheir desks, and will our 1 guests in the gallery please rise. Our prayer today Will be given I I by the Reverend David Schauer, St. Frances Cabrini Church, j Springfield. Reverend Schauer. I I
I (Prayer by the Reverend David Schauer) 1 PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR WEAVER) I I All rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. Senator Sieben. , EENATOR SIEBEN: I (The Pledge of Allegiance, 1ed by Senator Sieben) I PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR WEAVER) I Reading of the Journal. Senator Butler. I SENATOR BUTLER: I Mr. President, I move that reading and approval of the I Journals of Wednesdayr March 1st7 Thursday, March 2nd: Friday, March 3rd; and Tuesdayr March 7th, in the year 1995, be postponed, pendin: arrival of the printed Journals.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WEAVER) Senator Butlermovestopostpone the reading and approval of 1 Ehe Journal, pending arrival of the printed transcripts. There being no objectionr it is so ordered. ABC News-New York requests permission to tape the proceedings, as does WAND. Leave ls granted. Committee Reports.
senator Fawell, Chalr of Ehe Committeq on Transportationy reporEs fenate 9i1lc 192 and 561 Do Pass; Senate Bills 157, 226 and 350 Do Passy as Amended; and Senate Bi11 508 Tabled by the SPOnSOr. fenator Cronin: Chair of the Commtttee on Educatlon, reports Senate Bills 366,529 and 535Do Pass;SenaEeBill 625Do Pass,as 1 I 1 STATE 0F ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 1995 Amended; and Senate Amendnents 3 and 4 to Senate Bill 17 Be Adopted. And Senator Sieben, Chair of the Committee on State Government Operations, reparts Senate Bill 560 Do Pass; and Senate Bt11 271 Do Pass, as Amended.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WEAVER) House Bills lst Reading.
House Bill 206, offered by Senator Cronin. (Secretary reads title of bill) House Bill 355: by Senator Hawkinson. (Secretary reads tikle of b1ll) House Bill 358, by Senator Hawkinson. (Secretary reads title of bill) Housg Bill 505 is offered by Senator Maitland. (Secretary reads title of bill) House Bill 560, by Senator Demuzio. (Secretary reads title of bill) And Senate <sic> Bill 567, by Senator Mahar. (Secretary reads title of btll) ls* Reading of the bills.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WEAVER) On page 2 of the Calendar are -- on the Order of House -- senate Bills an 2nd Reading. If any Member wishes to move their bfllg wefll go down the list. Senator Klemmw on 62? Out of the record. 63. Senator Klemm? Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.
Senate Bill 63. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Readin: of the bill. No commiEEee or Floor amendments, Mr. President.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WEAVER) STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 3rd Reading. Senator Peterson, on Senate Bill 76? Out of the record. Senator Woodyard, on 112? Out of the record . Senator Klemm, on Senate Bill 122? Out of the record. Senator Fawell, on 264? Do you wish the bill read? Out of the record. Senator O 'Daniel, on 288? Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.
Senate Bi11 288. (Secretary reads title of b1l1) 2nd Reading of the bill. No committee or Floor amendments, Mr. President.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WEAVER) 3rd Reading. Senator Watson on the Floor? 185. Do you Wlsh the bill read? Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.
Senate Bill 185. (Secretary reads title of bill) 2nd Reading of the bill. The Committee on Executive adopted Amendment No.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Have there been any Floor amendments apprcved for considerationy Mr. Secretary?
Floor Amendment 2, offered by Senator Watson.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Watson.
Yes, thank your Mr. President. This is an amendment we diseussed in the Executive Committee when the bill was heard. Ik simply strikes the word ''dispenses'' from the definition of a person deemed to be practicing optometry. This was a concern Ehat Ehe Illinois Rekail Merchants brought Eo our attention. The optometrists had no problem with striking this language, and as a STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Lmgislativg Day March 8, 1995 result, it's agreed to, and I'd move for its adoption.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Is there discussion? Is there discussion? Senator Watson now moves the adoption of Amendment No. 2 to Housg <sic> Bill 185. Those in favorr say Aye. Opposed, Nay. The Ayes have it. And the amendment is adopted. Any further Floor amendments, Mr. Secretary?
No further anendments reported, Mr. President.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) 3rd Readinq. Al1 right. Ladies and Gentlemen, we will be moving to Senate Bills 3rd Reading, bottom of page Let me announce the -- the first few Members with -- with bills out of the chute: Senator Watson, Senator Cronin, Senator Weaver, Senator Butler, Sena*or Woodyard, Senator Mahar. In that order. Senator HaWkinson, for What purpose do you rise, sir?
Just point of inquiry, Mr. Chairman. Yesterday We started to go through 3rd Readings. It's not your intention to take up Where we left off yesterday?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) I -- I should have mentioned that, Senator Hawkinson. Wedre going to start at the top of the Calendar again. A11 rightz Ladies and Gentlemen, bottom of page 2. Senate Bill 8. Senator Watson. Read the bill, Mr. Secrekary.
Senate Bill (Secretary reads title of bill) 3rd Readlng of Ehe bill.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Watson. SENATOR WATSON) STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8: 1995 Yes. Thank you, Mr. President. This legislation Was amended in -- in committee and is now the bill the actual amendment, and it -- it repeals a provision that's in the Public Aid Code and the Department of -- or Department of Corrections' Unified Code which would require an intergovernmental agreement to expedite those people who are incarcerated in this State when they apply for Publlc Ald benefits. My attituder and I think the majority of the Members of the committee, supported by bipartisan support ln committee, that why should people who are incarcerated or who are in prison in the state of Illinois go to the front of the line. think one of the things that we fail in our -- ln our correctional system is the teaching of responsibility. And if# ln fact, these people want to apply and are ellgible for public aid, then so be it. They should have that right, just as everybody else has, but they shculd not go ahead of somebody who is out in the public sector, Who is not a part of the Department of Corrections. Sor I say that shculd be repealed; that those people Who are in the Department of Corrections, they have counselors there; they can file in a timely fashion, and they should not be thelr applicatlon should not be expedited. That basically is the bill, Mr. President. I would be glad to answer any questions.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Is there discusslon? Senator Trotter.
Thank you very much, Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Indicates he will yieldr Senator Trotter.
Yes. Senator Watson, when the Departnent of Corrections and Department of Public Aid came to this agreement, do you know why they did agree on this? Why tWo years ago when they had this bill ordered and it was passedz that they felt at that time it was a 5 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legtslative Day March 8, 1995 good initiative?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Watson.
No, -- I do not, Senator.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Trotter.
Okay. Has someone come to you and has told you that this is now a bad dealr other than you personally feel that this is a wedre giving somebody too much of a -- a good thing? Has the Department come to you and said that not working out? The Departnent of Corrections says that they're having complications in trying to make this -- thls thing work? Has the Department of Public Ald said that there -- that there -- there's too many cases involved right now; they have a -- a overload? Is there any reason that this -- that we should not continue With thisz other than some few indivlduals who personally feel that we are giving a sucker an even break?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Watson.
Well, nobody came to me from either agency and said that this was a problem, Senator, but it's a phllosophical problem that I have. I mean, why should somebody -- well, guess I don't need to answer that vein, but it's a philosophical problem. These people who -- that are incarcerated in this State have the opportuniEy Eo apply just like everybody else does, and Ehey -- maybe they -- you knowy they've got a lot of tine on their hands in the Department of Corrections, would assume. They should have. And Why not put that time to good use and put -- and apply for the -- your benefits in a -- in a manner in which everybody 6 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day Mareh 8: 1995 else is asked to do? That's basically What we're trying to do.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Ladies and Gentlemen, let's have your attention please. I Senator Trotter. . SENATOR TROTTER: j So what you're saylng, Senator Watson, is that these Women Who are being discharged and who prcbably have children Waiting for them when they get out should wait another six Weeks before they become a viable parent, or at least trying to take care of their children soon as they get out. NoW they've been separated from their children now for -- for ever hoW many years, Whatever their term or their sentence was. So what this bill did initially was allow them once they were released after serving thelr time, they were able to come out and -- and try to be a parent to these folks and that -- that parenthood was asslsted by our system of government whkch says that they can be eligible for AFDC until they found meaningful employment. So what you 're saying is that these Women now should come out and not have any kind of support system helping them , which was the impetus of the bill in the first place, that did allow these women to actually come out and to be mothers to the children that they had been -- been separated from.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Was that a question, Senator Trotter?
... so -- so what youlre saylng is Ehat they should not come out after serving their time and be -- be made Whole by having an opportunity to receive funds from a system that has agreed and has also -- has said that they are eligiblg to recgive these funds. So the Department, who -- who felt the same way as -- as I did tWo I and a half years agor allowed them to expeditiously do this. You now, philosophically, say it is Wrong Eo assist Ehese mothers , who 7 i STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH CENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day Mareh 8, 1995 now have served their time, to be good parents to their children I wtth the help of the system. ! PRESIDING OFFICERI (SENATOR MAITLAND) I That was a statement, Senatcr Trotter. Thank you. Further dlscusslon? Senator Fawell. SENATOR FAWELL: Will -- Wilt the sponsor ytetd for a question? PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Indicates he Nill yield, Senator Pawell. SENATOR FAWELL: Senator Watson, do you have any knowledge Whatsoever how much money these mothers are given when they leave prison? Do we give them enough to -- to start out with, ar -- or do we just release them? PRESIDINC OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Watson. SENATOR WATSON: They are given some consideratlon - financial consideration - and possibly transportatlon. I'm not sure what that value is. But I think what's being misunderstood here, and by Senator Trotter and I think by the tone of your question, is that there -- there's nothing in what we're trying to do here that woukd prohibit then fron being eligible for benefits the day they get cut of prison. A11 we're saytng is that they should apply and fill out that application and go through the process in the same manner that those people who are doing it in the prlvate sector, who are not ln prison. We are giving special consideration to those people who are incarcerated - men and women. It's not necessarily just a woman's issue. So we're -- wefre -- we don't think that they should be treated in a special manner. We think they should be responsible and fill out their application and get it in in a timely manner, like everybody else is asked to do . i 8 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislattve Day March 8, 1995
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Fawell.
guessy you know, my where I'm coning from, I -- I happen to serve on one of these marvelous commissions that get put on all the time, about when we get -- when we dlscharge some of these people that have -- have been incarcerated for a number of years. And I have said and I have talked, frankly, to Henry Hyde and a few of the others. We've got two problems when these when these people get out. Number one, a 1ot of them do not have housing when they get out because they -- they have no place to qo. Their -- frankly, their famllies will not accept them back and so they're out there on the street. The second problem that wedve got is, frankly, most of thgm also don 't have their Social Securlty card. And What's the first thing that an employer will ask you for is what is your Social Security number. 1ot of these people have never held a job, and they don't have a Social Security number or have a Social Security card. have suggested to our congressmen, a) before anybody is allowed out of prison, they darn well ought to have that card ln their hot little hand so that they could apply for a job, but the second problem is the housing. have some very mixed feelings about this, because it just seems to me that -- that if we don't find some way to keep then out, obviously a 1ot of these pepple Will then turn right back into crime because they have no housing, they have no job and they have no money. And I thlnk if you check, you will find we give them carfare to come back to wherever they came from , whether it's the City of Chicago or Whether it's -- it's Wheaton or Glen Ellyn, and fifty dollars. I think that's the amount of money we give them. That's not going to even get them a place to stay for a night, much less two or three Weeks. So if you could find out those answers, I would be happy. 9 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSCMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discussion? Senator Smith.
Thank you. Mr. President and Members of the Senate, I'd like to direct my remarks to our sponsor of this bill. Have you ever been down to Dixon? May I ask that question. Have you been to Dixon, Illinois - the women's prison?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Watson.
The home of Ronald Reagan? Dixonr Illlnols? I've been to Dixon.
PRZSIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator -- Senator Smith.
Thank you. I'm sorry. Dwight Prison. Have you visited Dwight Prison?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Watson.
No, na 'am, I have not.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Smith.
I wish before you entered this bill that you would have visited Dwlght. The women -- and this -- thls Legisla*ure sponsored a chapel at Dwight because it's State property, and that chapel has saved women who went in there and did not know right from wrong. But because there is a chapel there and there is a foeus to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, these women have attempted to change their lives, to be better citizens. They've made mistakes, but they want to become better citizens. Now you -- 10 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Leglslative Day March 8, 1995 you're workin: on the children. Children don't ask to come here. Now you want to kill out the parents, who after having been possibly converted, say, ''I want to do better and nake a better citizen of myself when I -- am relieved from prison.'' And you -- or these women who would be qualified for AFDC regardless of their incarceration and to deny them timely access to their benefits has a negative effect on them and their children by this legislation. If this bill is enacted, it Would not prevent formef prisoners who are eligible for public aid to make applications for assistance; lt would only prolong the process for them. Although this bill ls viewed by its sponsor as a get-tough-on-crime, it would also increase the crime rate, because it may cause people to commit another crime in order to provide for their families. I'm sure, sir, that you do not intend to do that. We're trying to help our society. We are trylng to give these young women another chance in life, and you 're getting them -- you're hitting them right in the face when they are released and say when they come outsider there Will be no assistance to them, whatsoever. You are encouraging wronq; yet, at the same time, you're seeking to get tough on crime. I -- I'm agalnst this legislation, and I think any of you Who are cognizant of the fact that young women are trying in spite of their circumstances, you're going to make it worse. And I wish you would think about that twlce. Everybody is not like you. Everybody do not have the same opportuniti:s that you have had. But they are young women who have had a hard way to come up and that prlson has helped them by virEue of the fact *haE there Was a chapel therez and you Want to kill them out before Ehey get starEed. Please. I know they apply before -- before they go out. PRESIDING OFFICER; (SENATOR MAITLAND) Is Ehere...
I 11 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 1995 They can... Regardless to which Way you consider this, please think in terms of these young women who need help .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Is there further discussion? Senator Syverson.
Thank you. think maybe there's a misunderstanding, and, Senator Watson, maybe you can answer thls question. This bill has nothing to do with any programs or chapel or anything thatls going on currently inside the prlson. This has nothing to do with those who leave prison and are having transportation costs. You can still obtain your benefits the day you kalk out the door. This bill just says that you have to ask and fill out the paperwork while youdre in prison. just not going to be handed to you. Is that correct?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Watson.
hope everybody was listening because that's absolutely correct.
PRESIDING OEFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Syverson.
guess I just want to make sure everyone understands this. This does not change lt. This does not Eake any bengfits away. Thls does no* reduce benefits. This does noE reduce the time in when individuals can receive benefits. It's just sayinqy if youIre goin: to be coming ouE inEo society, Ehere is some personal responsibilities you have to take: and We're asking these prisoners to take five minutes out of their time to ask a counselor for the paperwork to begin the process of gettin: onto aid. And it's not taking aid away. We're just no* going to turn around and put them on aid autonatically. We Want them to take STATE OP ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 1995 the tine to ask and take some responsibillty to apply for that kind of aid. And thatls a11 this bill does.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discussion? Senator Palmer.
Thank you, Mr. President. Question of the sponsor.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Indicates he will yield: Senator Palmer.
Senator Watson, I think I heard you a few minutes ago, said that the reason you're putting this bill forward is that you don't want people coning out of prison being put in front of other people who are eligible for these beneflts. Is that correct? Because, I'm sorry, I was talking to someone at the time. Ts -- is that what I heard correctly?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Watson.
Yes, in a manner of speakingr thak Was correct. But -- I just don't think thelr applications should be expedited and they should be put ahead of those people that are applying that are in the private sector and not part of the Department of Correctlons. I think that they vere getting an unfair advantage in expediting their applications.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Palmer.
Yes. And how many people are in that siEuakion from *he private sector who are being inconvenienced?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Watson.
STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 A greae number. A grea: number.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Palmer.
Well, is it tens, hundredsy thousands? How many people are inconvenienced? If that -- if that is the crux of this bill, then how many people are we talking about?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Watson.
Well, in ny district office, where -- we oftentines get calls fron those people who have applled for public aid and for whatever reason their application is being -- it's not going through the process in a manner in which they would like to see or we Would like to see. Soz they are being denied benefits, or access to health care, or -- or dollars that could be made available to them, food stamps - whatever -- whatever the program may be and part of that reason could be because somebody is sitting over in Public Aid expediting applications of people who are incarcerated in this State. just don't thlnk that's fair. I don't think that's fair to the people Who are out there who are -- who maybe, for whatever point and period in their life, theyfve got a tough tlme right now, and so they go to the DepartmenE of Public Aid and they ask for an application and they want -- they want to receive benefits and they need benefits. Why should sonebody Who's incarcerated and this -- in the prlson syskem in this S*ate be put ahead of khose types of folks? -- Ehat's what I see what the legislation did, if it was tWo years ago or however nany years ago, when it was adopted. I want to see...tmicrophone cutoffl...
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Palner.
14 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th LegislaEtve Day March 8, 1995 To the bilk: I think this is another case of boomerang politics. It'E -- iE's unfortunate, first of all, that more and more people are having to apply for public aid. That is an evidence that there are more. and morg poor people in this State. And for us to have some kind of competition between the poor and the poorerr I think is an unfortunate way to go. don 't think that this has anything Eo do with personal responsibility. I think I heard Senator Fawell mention something about getting a a card -- Social Security card before you come out of prison. It seems to me that this is a benefit to the society in general. people know where they're going, what their next step is, -- it's a bridge to somewhere. I think that's a benefit to all of us. And I don't see Why this has to be passed. don't think it makes any sense. Thank you. PRESIDING OFFICERI (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discussion? Further discussion? Senator Fawell, for a second time.
Thank you very much. And I apologize for standing a second time, bu* will *he sponsor yield for a question? Senator Watsonr is this going to stop *he prison offlclals from going to those wonen six weeks in advance and saying, you are going to get out in six weeks; here's some papers; fill then out; don't wait till the last minute, or you 're not going to have yqur Public Aid benefits? Will this stop that at all? PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLANDJ Senator Watson.
No, it does not prevent that at all. They have counselors who -- who are assigned to inmates in the Department of Corrections. would think it Would be good for that counselor to know the exit date of that inmate and make that type of preparation. Nor does 15 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 this prevent the inmate the kncarcerated indlvidual from taking the responsibility upon themselves - Nhich I hope that that's something we're trying to teach in the Department of Corrections: is some responstbLlity - and apply for it in a timely fashion so that money and benefits Would be there when they get out the day they exit out of the Department of Corrections.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Fawell.
So What you're trying to do, in effect, is -- is sayr ''Make sure those people understand when they have six weeks left.'l ''Fil1 these papers out. Don't wait till the day before you leave to fill those papers out, because yf you do, we are no longer going to put you at the head of the line, above some other woman who has come in five weeks ago to apply for the -- for her public aid and is waiting for those papers to be processedv'' Is that rlght? Somebody that is -- that is not incarcerated, Who has already done this, and youlre not puttlng someone who waited till the last minute even though she knew she was gettin: out of ptison, youdre not waiting till the last -- she Won't be able to wait till the last minute to fill those papers out. Is that what you are attempting to do?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Watson.
Xes. Xes, it is, and wedre trying to teach some respcnsibility.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Al1 right. Eurther discusslon? Further discussion? Senator - - I'm sorry. I thought you were finished. Senator Fawell.
I -- I just think, then, this is -- this is a good bill. This 16 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 is a logical bill. It is true that -- that these people are going to have tc start taking responsibility for their oWn actions. -- that's not *oo much to ask, the counselors are there and *he counselors are telling them r ''Fil1 these papers out so that when you get out, you will indeed be able to get your children back immediately and -- and set up a house for them.'' This is not much to ask. And lndeed, we are having problens trying to get other people who have gone to their Publtc Aid offices for assistance and have been put back on the back burner because these people are irresponsible, I think thatls not asking too much. And think it's a good bl11 and we al1 cughk to be on board .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further dlscussion? Senator Watson, you wish to closer sir?
Well, thank you, Mr. Presldent. Unfortunately, I think, as the debate has progressed here, there's some people who haven't really understood what We're trying to do. And -- and I apologize if I'm not makinq lt clear. If we read the transcript, I thinke of what Senator Palmer saidr you -- you would believe that she Was in support of this because of what she said. We -- we have a competttive system right now. mean, that's what's out there. The -- *he inmate is compehing, and unfairly competing, against those people who are less fortunate, who are in the private sector, who come into an office soyewhere and try to get their benefits. They are competing unfairly. We're glving them an unfair advantage: People Nho are incarcerated kn this State. Doesn't make any sense. don't understand mean, -- so I think what she was saying in essence isz correct - it shouldn't be competitive. So this should be repealed. Senator Smith, agree with you, and 1 -- you know what I'd like Eo do? I want to go to Dwight. I want to go in there and see. I try to visit the correctional facilities throughout this StaEe, and I try to make 17 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 myself accessible to those peopler because I share a lot of the same concerns that you do and that you mentioned in debate. I share those concerns. This has nothing - absolutely nothin: - to do with -- with an individual's ability to be eligible the day that they exit out of the Department of Correetions. Has absolutely nothlng. think there's some people that are -- that misunderstand what's happening here. Wefre not saying that on the day you exit ts the first day you can apply. Wedre not saying that. We're saying you should apply in the nanner in which will prepare you to be eliqible the day you exit out of the Department of Corrections. I think this is a responsible approach, and it hopefully wi1l teach some responsibility to those unfortunate ones who are lncarcerated and who have eommitted a crime against soclety and are paying their price. That price ends the day they exit. And if they dre eligible and those benefits should be theirs, thenr fine, that -- that should happen. But they should not go to the head of the line ln front of those people who are unfortunately out there trying to make on their own. I'd appreciate the Aye vote, Mr. Presldent. Thank you.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) The questlon is, shall Senate Bill 8 pass. Those ln favor will vote Aye. Opposed, Nay. The votinq is open. Have al1 voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wlsh? Take the recordz Mr. Secretary. On that questionz there are 43 Ayesr 12 Nays, no Menbers votlng Present. Senate Bi1l 8, having recelved the required constitutional majorley, is declared passed. Assoclated Press requests leave of the Body to record the proceedings. Is leave granted? Leave is gran*ed. Senate Bill l7. Senator Crontn. Senatore do you wish this bkll returned to 2nd Reading for the purpose of amendment? Senator Cronin seeks leave of the Body to return Senaee Bill 17 to the Order oc 2nd Reading E0r the purpose of an amendngnt. Hgaring no objection, leave is 18 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 granted . On the Order of 2nd Reading is Senate 3il1 Mr. Secretary, are there any Floor amendments approved for eonsideration?
Amendment No. 3, offered by Senator Cronin.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin.
Thank you very much, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. We have tWo amendments here, Senate Floor Amendment 3 and Senate Floor Amendment 4: which were debated thoroughly in committee yesterday, and I'm seeking their adoption. I'm also seeking, for purposes of clarificakion: to advance the bill and take a vote on the underlying bill, as well. So lf I may reserve my remarks for the bill, as amended, once the amendments are adopted , I would ask the Chair kf I can proceed in that nanner.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) We are taking the -- the anendments separately thcugh, Senator Cronin, and you're offering the first amendnent, Which is Amendnent No. Can you briefly explain the amendment? Senator Cronin, understand, Wedll adopt that -- that amendment. A1l right. Okay. Is -- is there any dlscussion? If not, al1 those in favor of Amendnent No. 3 to Senate Bl11 l7, say Aye. Opposed, Nay. The Ayes have itz and the amendment is adopted. Any further Floor amendments, Mr. Secretary?
Amendment No. 4, offered by Senator Cronin.
PRESIDIKG OFFICER: (SEXATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin.
would renew the same motion gith respect Amendnent No . PREfIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) 19 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislatlve Day March 8, 1995 Senator Cronin moves the adoption of Floor Amendment No. 4 to Senate Bill Al1 Ehose tn favor, say Aye. Opposed, Nay. The Ayes have it, and the amendment is adopted. Are there any Floor amendments -- any further Floor anendments, Mr. Secrekary?
No further amendments reported, Mr. President.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) 3rd Reading. 3rd Readinq. On Senate Bill 17 -- on 3rd -- on 3rd Reading is Senate Bill l7. Senator Cronin, do you wish to call that bill, sir? Mr. Secretary, read khe bill: sir.
Senate Bill l7. (Secretary reads tltle of bil1) 3rd Reading of the bill.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin.
Thank you very much, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. Senate Bill 17, as many of you may know: is the Educational Choice Act. More commonly referred to as vouchers or school choice. We have adopted two amendments, Senate Amendment No. 3 and 4, whlch become the bill. Senate Amendment No. 3 has several speclflc provisions that I would go through and offer to you in the followlng manner: First and foremost, this program is a voucher program and it would be issued durinq the $96-'97 school year. It is speciflcally designed to apply to one subdistric: within th9 Ctty of Chicago . City of Chicago has various subdlstricts and this ls designed to apply to one subdlskricty as determined by a council Ehat will be set up, as Well. The -- any pupll residing Within the subdistrlct -- the selected subdistrict withln the City shall be eligible for a voucher provided: One, they're under twenky-one years old; two: they 're enrolled as a 20 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL AESEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 full-time student; three, they have a family income that does not exceed 1.5 times the family income level necessary to qualify for ! the National School Lunch Act: Which means about twenty-eight thousand eight hundred and sixty dollars Cor a family of four. i This blll is intended to help lower-incone peaple. Qualifying I schools: Any public or non-home-based private school located within the selected subdistrict shall be eligible to redeem vouchers provided they comply With Title VI of the Civll Rights Act of 1964. The voucher amount is as folloWs: The parents or guardians of each qualifylng pupil may apply to receive a voucher to be redeemed at a qualifying school for the payment of educational expenses incurred on behalf of the student. Educational expenses mean the cost reasonably lncurred by parents or guardians for the services at the school in which their child is enrolled. Example: Tuition, if any, and -- and fees. These costs shall not -- shall not include costs incurred for supplies of extracurricular or extracurricular activities. The voucher shall be for the -- for the total amounk of educational expense up to twenty-five hundred dollars. Tbe amount of the voucher shall not be considered taxable income under the Ikllnois Income Tax Act. Funding: Funding for the program is provided by a diversion of State aid from the school district -- the Chicaço School District. The State Board will Wlthhold the total amount of the vouchers up to a maximum of five million dollars duripg each year of the program. Chicago is allowed to continue to included former publkc school students who enroll în private schools within Eheir State aid pupil attendance figures, but the bkll guarantees that the State aid for districks outside Chicago shall be unaffected by i the progran . Deadlines for the bill are as follows: October lst of the year of attendance, parents and guardians apply for the i I voucher; November 15th, the voucher is issued to the parent or I guardian; November 30th, the parent or guardian submits voucher Eo I 21 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8: 1995 I school; November -- December 15th, school presents voucher to the State Board of Educatlon for payment; February 1st, the State I Bcard of Education pays the voucher amounE to the school. The admlnistratlon of this proqram is as follows: The State Board is autborized to promulgate rules necessary to implement and facilitate the operation of the program, but ts prohibtted from creating any further substantive educational requirements on any school. That is a concern that many in the private school business have. They are prohibited from creating any further substantive educaktonal requirements. There is a Council of Advisers that is created to advise the State Board on the operatlon of the program and perform various speclfied duties. The council shall consist of fifteen members. Tbe Governor and the four Lêgislative leaders shall each appoint one representative of the public schools, one of the private schools, and one of the general public. The council is charged With selecting the elementary subdistrict that will serve as the geographical area for the operation of the program. The council must hold public hearings prior to the selection and is encouraged to select an area with -- with a broad selection of public and private schools, adequate transportation resourcesr and has demonstrated community and parental support for the program. Other duties of the councll include arranging for independent evaluatlons of the program and determining an equitable Way to distribute the voucher funding, in the event the program is oversubscribed. Parents Will be notlfied about this program (n Ebe following manner, beginning with the '96- .97 school year: The chief adminkstrative officer of each school within the selected subdLstrict nust inform parents or guardians of the availability of the vouchers. Mr. President, that is the sum and substance of the bill. I'm happy to answer any questions.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) I 22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislatlve Day March 8, 1995 i Is there discussion? Senator Bernan. Senator Berman. : SENATOR BERMAN: l Thank you, Mr. Presidentr Ladles and Gentlemen of the Senate. I rise in opposition to Senate Bill l7. First of all, I Want to acknowledge that we received some very gcod information yesterday in committee regardlng the essence of the bill dealing with who will it help, where's it going to help, will it be meaninqful. And I Want to complimenty publicly, some of the homewcrk done by the Catholic Conference of Illinois Who went in and did some research ln the Pilsen neighborhood, the Llttle Village neighborhood and the McKinley Park nelghborhood in the City of Chicago to determine what was the availability of private school seats in the Catholic schools in that conmunity and what was the overcrowdinq situatlon in the public schools. And I think -- some of my colleagues may expand upon this, but I think it was very relevant thak in just those three neighborhoods, which doesn't even represent a whole subdistrict -- ln just that three neighborhoods there is forty-four hundred students that are in overcrowded schools, but only twelve hundred available seats in the Catholic schools in those three communities. So I think it's very important for those people Nho are generally supportive of a voucher system to recognize that there is very limited availabiltty as far as hekpkn: children that are in the publkc school system. Let me address some of the specifics ln the bill. There are scme statements in this bill that I Want to put on the record that are lncorrect. On page 2 of *he Amendment 3, lines 8 to l6, the bill Ealks about a crisis in Illinois education. Interesting. I don't think there's anybody on khls Floor that wouldn 't deny -- that would deny that there is a crisis in the funding of schools throughout *he Sta*e of Illinois. Bu* Ehis bill only addresses one-tenth of the students in one school district, namely Chicago. Nine hundred and thirty-four other I 23 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENZRAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 school districts argn't even addressed . So much for addressing the crisis in education in Illinois. Amendment 3 at page 2, lines 17 through 24, talks about national standards have been used to determine that a subgroup of Chicago schools must have a pilot voucher program to assist them . I'm not aware of any, and none -- no Eestimony was given yesterday or previously in committee that deals with national standards. I've heard of none. On page 2, lines to 30, it says that current laws and regulations, quote, ''linit parents' freedom to select schools that they believe can provide their children With a quality educationd'. Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm not aware of any laws or regulations that prohibit freedom of choice. There's an economic factory but there is no 1aw or regulations that limit freedom of choice. This bill has been amended to allow , according to Ehe bill, for public school students.to use'it in public schools. Ladies and Gentlemene that's balonet. Under existing law, any child, for exanple, who qualifies for free lunch cannot be assessed any fees - any fees throughout the. Chicago public school system. So what does this voucher do? There is no tuition charge in the public schools, and if you are poor, according to the measure, there is no fees that can be charged. So this sentence that says it's available for public school students doesn't amcunt to anything. ...think very important for the people that have come down here today in support of a voucher plan and, even more impoytantly, parents that live in districts in Chicago that hope that they Will be the trial subdistrtct, to recognize What this bill presently does as amended . Number one, the bill oriqinally said you would :et a twenty-f.tve hundred dollar tultion fee. ThaE has been changed. A parent u1ll not knoW - Will not know, when they enroll their child in the nonpublic school system and connit thenselves to paying a - - a fee for that school, they will not know hoW much of a voucher they are going to receive. The reason they won't know that 24 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 because, as the sponsar just outlined, the parenEs must enroll the child by October lstr they must apply for the voucher on October 1st. All of the applications for the vouchers come into this committee that has, under the bill, the power to allocate up to - up to - twenty-five hundred dollars, as amended; not twenty-five hundred, but up to twenty-five hundred dollarsr but no invent -- but in no event more than five million dollars. Ladies and Gentlemen, if there are five thousand children that apply for this voucher -- and 1et me tell you that's not a big number. You've got forty thousand kids in each one of these subdistricts. So if anly five thousand children apply on October lst and the commlttee wants to do somethin: for each of those children, Ehat voucher wll1 amount to only one thousand dollars. Parents, be aware of what you're committing yourself to Without knowing what youdre going to receive. I have tried to outline or Eouch upon scme of the practical problems in this bill. I think that -- that the technical problem is that it is unconstitutional, but I will leave that up to the eourts to debate that. But I want it for the record that in my opinion it is contrary to the provisions of the State and federal Constitutions by the use of public moneys for sectarian purposes. That is a violation of our Constitution. I will tell you What else I think it's going to do. Under this b111 - under this bill - the bill now applies to private school students. Now, when I say private schools, I'm includlng the religious schools. So everybody outside of the public school system within this subdistrict in Chicago can apply for this voucher and use this voucher. And let me tell you What I am fearful of - I hope I'm Wrong: that the parents who have iniEiaEed and have qone Eo grea: leng*hs to raise *he mongy to provide for private school tuition, either in the Cathollc schools or in any reltgious schools or in the private schools, they have made a substantial commitment on behalf of their children, and I 25 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGDLAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 salute them for thaty but what -- they have initiatedr What they I i think ls the approach that they want for their children, under 1 this bill those parents that have taken steps to help their children will be the first ones in line and wilk qualify under this billr and you will see a relatively small numbeE of public school students that w(ll take advantage or be able to take advantage of this bkll. It will be taking public money. And 1et ne just add one other point: When I say public money, this is no* State of Illinois money; this is Chicago education money; this is Chicago real estate taxpayers' money, which is being put to the nonpublic schools in Chicago. It is not State of Tllinois money. That I think is a breach of our commitment as a Legislature to the taxpayers of Chicago. If we think it's a good program y we as State legislators ought to fund it through State resources, not taking it away from a sorely underfunded public school system in Chicago. For al1 of those reasons, Ladies and Gentlemen, I respectfully urge a No vote.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discussion? Senator Hawkinson. SENATOR HAWKINSON: ' Thank you, Mr. President. I rise in reluctant opposition to Senate Bill l7. And it's reluctant opposition because I think We need to do some creative thlngs to improve our school system in this State. It is reluctant because our private schools are an important option for many students in this State, and they do an outgtanding job around khe State of Illtnois, b0th private, nonsectarian schools as well as parochial schools. Home schoolers ' also are an important option for students in *he State of Illinois. But I -- I guess I want to make just tWo brle' Points. The sponsor stated that other districts would be unaffected by I this bill. And I don't think that's quite true, and I think I I there 's an important distinction here. The bill provides that I 26 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislatlve Day March 8, 1995 other distcicts' general State aid shall not be increased or decreased. However, khey will be affectedz because without that provislonr when the Chicago schools have fewer pupils, more money would flow to other districts as a natural consequence. If in our areas of the State a student chooses to go to one of our parochial schools, our head count lessened under the formula and our State aid is decreased. Under this bill, however, we cannot increase our aid, because while their head count goes down, for purposes of the formula, their head caunt will renain the same the Chicago schools. So we will be affected adversely the other districts even though Ne cannot go up or go down. But more importantty, were we riding on a clean slate and a clean Constitutlon, this b1l1 might very well merit our consideration, but we do take an oath when ue're sworn in here, and that oath to uphold and sustain the Constitution of the State of Illinois and of the United States. And the constitutional 1aw I think is clear, that direct aid to sectarian schools violates the establishment clause of the First Amendment to *he United States Constitutlon. And I don't think this bl11 can stand that constikutional muster. So I reluctantly rise in oppcsltion to Senate Bll1 17.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) WCIA requests permission to record this afternoon. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. Senator Jacobs.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman Mr. President, Ladies and GenElemen of the Senatq . The Ewo previous speakers spoke of the Constitution, and if I could, I Would like to read from our State Constitution. doesn't take long. And think even the headline says it all. ''PUBLIC PUNDS FOR SECTARIAN PURPOSES ARE Isicl FORBIDDENI'. HNeiEher the General Assembly nor any county, city, townz township, school dlstrict, or other public 27 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 corporation, shall ever make any approprlation or pay from any i public fund whatever, anything in aid of any church or secbarian purpose, or Eo help support or sustain any school, academy, seminary, college, university or other literary cr scientific instltution, controlled by any church or sectarian denomination whatever; nor shall any grant or donation of land, money, or other : personal property ever be made by the State, or any such public corporation, to any church, or for any'' - any - 'lsectarian purpose.'' Notwithstandlng that -- both of the previous speakers have indicated Ehat will be handled by the courts; I understand that. My concern with this piece of legislation is that the Governor, whenever he kntroduced hts budget, gave K through 12 ! two-thirds of what they wanted - not enouqh money. In addition Eo I thatg yesterdayr we took away a million dollars from education for ! the purpose of State police training and -- in hirings of the ICC police officers to become State pollce offlcers. Today we're 1 adding another five-milllon-dollar hit to education. That's three percent at this time and early in the Sessicn, three-percent reduction in the dollars that this Governor has allocated to education. Six million dollars - three percent. And We've got a l long Way Eo go. I'm sure We dll find other ways to take more money ' from education. And in a State that is sorely lacking from the State level in funding for education, I think introduction and passage of this type of legisla*ion is foolhardy and it's ! something that We should turn down. l
PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Fur*her discussion? Senator O'Malley.
Thank you, Mr. -- thank you, Mr. President. As a cosponsor of Senate Bill 17, I rise ln vgry, very s*rong support of this bl11. We're çoing to hear a lot todayr I assume, from both sides of the I ! aisle on the way *he people feel about this issue, about whab this 28 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8: 1995 bill, in some cases, is not about. I'd like, at least, to make some remarks about what I believe it is about. First of all, I believe it's about competition for students. I believe that there has been a long period of time in this country Where We have allowed a public education system to grow up Where students have no choicez families have no choiee, generally, from economic -- from an economic perspective or otherwise, and -- and that -- that what we need to do in this country is re-empower parents. And I don 't say empower; I say re-empower parents, because parents had this from the beginning of this country; this ability to make educational choices for Eheir families. This bill ls also about public suppcrt for education. I didn't say support for public education; I said public suppcrt for education - a longtime kradition in the United States. This bill is also a very limited, very modest proposal. I Won't go lnto the details of the bill; Senator Cronin has already done that. But let me just say, it's very limited in the schools that can participater and, yes, Senator Berman, it's limited in the nunber of students that will be able to participate in it. And I would say to you, Senator Dermanr after I heard your remarksr I really am not sure whether you Were trying to make sure everybody here and across the State of Illinois understands how limited it is and therefore saying that, if it was broader, you would support lt. Well, let me suggest this to you: If that is your feeling, I Will be happy to cosponsor such a bill and expand the implications of this legislation. ..mtapplause from public gallerlesl... 9u* Eherg has indeed been a very strong reaction to this blll. And the applause you just heard is just part of the reaction. I think it's important for Illinois to know that the -- the reaction is stronger auay fron this room, and it's stronger anong the public education establishment. And I Want to get into that in some detail. But 1et me talk about this ldea that I'm trying Eo 29 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 characterize this as public support for education. It's not a neW or novel idea, and itls rooted basic American principles - Jeffersonian ideals of an educated citizenry. You knowr when thls nation was founded we didn't have a public education system. We had private scbools. And -- and -- and the founders of this country, and their successors, understoody as Jefferson promulgated, that it was essential and important for the future of this nation that we have an educated citizenry. And here in Illinois *e already have an example of the public-private partnership that works very, very well, and our higher ed system. Private universitles and public universities share public resources. available for education at the higher ed level today. And it's time that we did it for elementary and secondary education. ...tapplause fron public galleriesl... So this concept of public support for education over decades has developed into the concept of public support for only public education. What is it across thls State that beqs for thls tgpe of legislation? You know, it isn't just Chicaqo. It isn't just the suburbs, and lsn't just downstate. There are people a11 over the State of Illinois who are looking for this. And yes, there are mothers and fathers who are raising families al1 across thls State who are looking for this kind of assistance in every district that each and everyone of us represents. ...tapplause from public gallqrlesl...
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) SenaEor O'Malley. SenaEor O'Malley, just one moment, please. Ladies and Gentlemenp in the gallery we are delighted to have you here today. Thls ls a very important issue to you and -- and we knoW that, but We have some very strong policy on the Floor of the Sena*e that -- that Ehere be no public display of enthusiasm or rejection from the gallery. And we wauld ask you please to no longer applaud any of the speakers. And thank you for -- for 30 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 honoring our guidelines here. Senator O'Malley, ycu may proceed, sir.
Thank you, Mr. President. What is it that these parents across the State are really looklng for? Because we a11 know that we have good school districts across the State, and many of the same parents who are looking for this sort of assistance from their State live in those school districts. believe, and think this is a belief shared by a 1ot of people, that unfortunately over decades there has developed, within our public education system, a very sterile environment. read, with great interest, in September, 1993, an article that appeared in the Chicago Tribune Magazine authored by Christina Hoff Sommers. It's entitled ''Teaching the Values <sic> (Virtues) A Blueprint for Moral Educationd'. I would like to make a copy of this available to everybody in this room. It really gets to *he heart of the issue. am only going to share With you one specific antidotg that she shares in here. She talks about a this -- this -- the nature of this article is about the teachlng of ethics in Amerfca. And she relates a story of a Harvard University Professor Who annuakly offers a large htstory course on the second World War and the rise of the Nazis. Some years ago, and I'm quoting from this, S'he was stunned to learn from his teaching assistant that the najority of students did not believe that anyone was really to blame for the Holocaust.'f This is in an ethics course Nith students at Harvard University. 'Q n the studenks' minds, the Holocaust was like a natural cataclysm : It Was inevitable and unavoidable.u Ladies and Gentlemen, the Holocaust was wrons. It Wasn't right. And yet Harvard students, some of the brightest people in America can't figure that out. So what are these parents across our State looking for? Theypre locking for something that supports the values that they have their oWn 31 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legkglative Day March 8, 1995 homes; sonething that they believe is essential to bring home in educatlon wikh their chlldren khat supports What they do in their homes and what they do in their churches on weekends. So why is there such a strong reaction from the public education community? I've sat in the Educatlon Committee for two years. Iïve listened to the debate on Senator Cronin's bill. hear theylre the defenders of the Wall of separaeion between church and State. This bill is nok about religion. It's about parents making choices. They will also say that We shouldn't be telling Chicago what to do. Well, I don't Want to tell Chicago What to do anymore than anywhere else in the State, but as said previously, if we want to expand this, count me on board. will support it anywhere in the State of Illinois. This plan is compleEely voluntary. Nobody has to particlpate in it. There are even those within the establishment who will say those of us wha vote for this bill are not friends af public education. W9ll, 1'11 sEand on my tvo years of record here as being a frlend for public education. And T'm going to contlnue to be a friend of public educatlon, but today especially gcing to be a friend of nothers and fathers making selections about important choices for their family in the area of education. So what's really the rub within the public educatton establishment? It's a monopoly and like any monopcly they don't like competitlon, and they certainly don't Want to share the publlc purse. In closinq, and thank you for allowing me this tlme to speak on this bill, we don't come here as protectors of the educakional esEablishment. We never come here any day for that purpose. Rather, we assemble here to debate *he importan: issues that affect families across America, I believe this legislation Will foster importanE educakional alternatives for parents and chkldren across the State o: Illinois. for oney believe that this bill Will akloW that to happene and strongly urge a Yes vote on it. Thank you very 32 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 much.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) WICS requests leave to fitm ën the gallery today . Is leave granted? Leave is granted. Let ne 1et me Ladies and Gentlemen, ue have been, think, very fair here in allowing the discussion to go on here. What I'n going to do at this point is put the timer on the five-minute timer on. will not interrupt you when the five minutes is -- is completed, but I Would -- I would like for you at least to Watch the clock so you know about how long you have talked. Further discussion? Senator Trotter. sorry. Senator Jones.
ïeah. Thank you, Mr. President. On a point of order as related to the timer. Now , does that ttmer include the -- the respondent to the question asked by a Member? Because a Member on this side has five minutes and the respondent kakes four ninutes to ansWer the questionr then you 're actually denying the -- the the Member on thls side of the aisle: or any other Menber, *he right Eo have thak five minutes. So I would suggestr very strongly, Mr. President, that you do not use the timer that manner.
PRESIDING OFPICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Jones, I again, indicated, this is not a manéatory timer todayy and -- and I think the point that you make ls well taken, and I think both -- both individuals should keep that in mind. Senator Trotter.
Thank you vgry much, Mr. president and Members of *he *he Senate. Will the speaker yield?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Indicates he Will yieldr Senator Trotter.
33 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 Thank you very much. What I would ktke to know ks: if, in 1 ; factr one of these students Who decides to go to a private school ! and takes his twenty-five hundred dollars with him - if he's kicked out in the middle of the semester, does those doltars, or the remainder of those dollars: go back with him to the public school system?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin.
Well, if the student applies and if he qualifies under the standards set out in the law, and if he is awarded a voucher and if he, indeed, enrolls and if the voucher is then redeemed under the -- the -- the time frame that we dve laid out -- and I think you will note that We were careful to 1ay that tlme frame in such a manner that -- that the student Would be enrolled and there would be a commitment there on the student's behalf, and if the student violates some well-known previously notified policy, just like any other school may have, and the student is expelled or -- or somethtng along that nature, some disciplinary action, then yes, then the school would be permitted. I
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Trotter.
The questlon was, the dollars that We give the school - the check - will -- if he's kicked out of school for violating whaEever pollcy, wl1l *he porElon of *he proceeds for *he remainder of that year, will those dollars follow him back to the public schcok system: Which (n this case may be the only system I that will accept him to continue his education. 'Cause, by law, he has Eo still attend school if he 's under sixteen years of age. So does -- if he: again, gets kicked out of a private schook, catholic school, whaEever, do those dollars go back to the public 34 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislatlve Day March 8, 1995 school system?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Genator Cronin.
It would depend on the speclfic case, but the schcol that may redeem *he voucher doesn't cash it in until February 1st under thls bill.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Trotter.
One other question. We're not setting up any standards for these schools in which we are sending them *o. So ik's not just a sectarian school. We actually -- we can actually be funding cults, theoretically, as well with public dollars. So -- no -- I mean, is there curriculum? Do we actually set the standards for these institutions that we are -- that we're sending our children to?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin.
We have laid out that this bill must comply with civil rights laws. Not be -- no school would qualify lf theydre discriminatory in any way -- violate any civil rights laws. Furthermore, We've given great latitude to the council that administer this program to fulfill the intended purpose of this. And if there's any question, Ehere is no inkended purpose tha: a school tha: engages in the practice of cults would be qualified.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Trotter.
... tmicrophone cutoffl...bkll just -- just for the sake of I time, 'cause I know there're some other individuals with 35 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMSLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Leglslatlve Day March 8, 1995 I questions. It's been said that this is -- that public school systens have a monopoly on education. Actually, jus: to the contrary, public schools offer an opportunity to individuals. They offer opportunities to those who -- who are not the elite, the cream of the crop, who can't go to the -- the really high echelon private schools and those who may not be Catholics. The public school system accepts everycne, and that's why public dollars are actually directed and given to those public institutions. What we see here is a -- a system being put forth that's going to hurt that public school system . Right now we have a system in the Clty of Chicago: in particular, and actually a11 throughout this Statey of schools that are waefully underfunded. By taking out an additional five million dollars -- and we dre talkkng about in four years, twenty million dollars out of that system would totally decinate and desecrate -- not decimate, excuse me, and destroy those institutions as we know them today. They cannot afford these kind of reductions in funds, and this is a bad bill at this time, and unttl we can adequately, as a state, fund our school system per our own State Constitution without paying the preponderance of costs for those -- educating those childrenr we should not be passin: this kind of legislation.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discussion? Senator Hendon.
Thank you, Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield for questlon?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Indicates he will yield, Senator Hendon.
Thank you very much. Senator Croninr I'm reading an analysis here and I wondered if some of this is correct. Qualifying schoolsz it says, a, the applicant does not discriminate on the 36 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8: 1995 basis of racey color or natural origin, religion or gender. Is that correct? PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin. SENATOR CRONIN: The answer is yes. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Hendon. SENATOR HENDON: Okay. So if -- lf -- if Ehey don't dlscriminate on the basis of religion, then could the Nation of Islam, Minlster Louis Farrakhan's schools qualify and receive vouchers? PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin. SENATOR CRONIN: They may. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Hendon. SENATOR HENDON: So is may a yes? The Nation of Islam and Louis Earrakhan, sehools that they run can get these vouchers? Yes or no? T means a may is a klnd of politicians answer. Even though We 're a11 elected officials, today I'd llke a, yes, the Nation of Islam can apply or, no, the Nation of Islam cannot. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin. SENATOR CRONIN: Senator Hendon, if the Nation of Islam schools comply with the civil rights laws of the Unlted States, then, yes, they would be eligible to redeem these vouchers, provided that a qualifying pupil elects to go Ehere. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) 37 STATE 0F ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legkstative Day March 8, 1995 Senator Hendon.
Okay . So and in order to certify all they have to do is say, '$We don't discriminate. White students just choose not to come bere.'' Is that sufficient certification?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin.
You know, think that would probably be up to the Councll of Advisersr but I like the direction that you're going in, Senator Hendon. This is empowerment for people who nay live in your district and who may want to attend the Natlon of Islam schools. So I'm pleased that you see this opportunity for the people in your district.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Hendon.
I want to make it clear that I do no* see this as an oppcrtunity for the people in ny dlstrict. I'm simply trying to point out that a school is a1l black, cr a school is all white, whether it's the Catholic Church or the Nation of Islam , khen there is no way in this world, ln my opinion, that they can certify that they don't dëscrimlnate. There are a lot of ways to discriminate. I also have very serious problens with the separatlon of church and state. Clearlyr this is uneonsEltutional. T'm certaln there's going to be a a challenge on the constitutionality of this issue. Lastly, Mr. PresidenE, I would jus: want to say that I feel that this is a bad bilt. lt's goinî to destroy Chicago public schools. Ygs, there needs Eo be some chanses in the Chtcago public schools, but to take money aWay from a system that is already in dire need of revenue is wrong. This is wrong. What we're goin: to do is take 38 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Leglslative Day March 8, 1995 i noney away from the taxpayers of the City of Chlcago and give lt to private people. If you canaffordtosendycurchild toa 1 private school, you don't need this money. What's golng to happen to the llttle poor childrenr the little poor parents who can't pay . the balance. If -- if the balance is more than twenty-five hundred dollars and you're struggling just to have milk and Panpers and faod on your table, especially with al1 of this welfare reform, who the heck - that's pocr - is going to have money to pay *he -- the balance of the voucher? Absolutely nobody. Further, I would contend that the only reason that the gallery is not full of poor people is because they can't afford to get down here. This is a bad bill. I urge a No vote. I commend you for what you are attempting to do, but this is the Wrong Way to do it. Thank you very much. END OF TAPE TAPE 2
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discusslon? Senator Geo-Karis.
Mr. Presldent and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate, some of the debate here reminds me cf the time that we were here in the Senatez arguing for the public schools' fundlng and so forth, and some of the proponents for the -- for that argument from over on the other side Who sent their children to the private schools. Eo, I think we beEEer look aE it completely. The people are paying taxes -- whether they send their children to private schools or not, they still are paying taxes to help fund the 39 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 publicschools. Senate Bilk 17 represents a good compromise 1 between our objectives of supporting public education but also of I creating some new, responsible, constitutional ways of supporting . parents who choose to send their children to -- alternative educatlonal prograns, and it's a pilot program. It's worth trying lt because we certainly haven't done too well With what's going on in Chicago at the present time. You know it and I know it. When we have high school graduates who can't even readr what does that tell you? I might tell you -- speaking about the constitutlonality: Senate Bill has been carefully dragn to meet the U.S. Supreme Court guidelines, and I might say, mcst recently, in 1993, the court -- the Supreme Court upheldy as part of a generalgovernmentprogramthatdistrlbutedasslstance,neutrally, to disabled students: the provision of a hearing interpreter for a j deafstudentattendin:aCatholichighschool. By--soifituas 1 conskituttonal then, certainly these guidelinesandthispilot progran is constitutionak. And I submlt, it's worth tryinq. We 1 can't do any worse, and we might do better to have a pilot pro:ram . and attribute it to people who -- who can 't spend too much money, and are -- and the guidelines have already been set forth ln the bill as to the income, and I don't tblnk we're going to hurt i*. I think we should try it. Nothing ventured, nothing gaingd, because I can tell you right now, we are pourlng millions in educatlon in Chicago, and all Ifm asklng here, as the sponsor is, a Ery, to see it come out a little better. Let's try it. What 's thê harm? I -- I speak ln favor of *he bill. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Furkher discussion? Senator del Valle. SENATOR dEL VALLE: Mr. President, there is one part of this bill that I agree with, and that's the part indicating Eindings and declaration of i pollcy. The bill says that there is a crisis in elementary and I 40 STATE OF TLLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24*h Legislatlve Day March 8, 1995 j secondary educatlon in Illinois. It doesn't say khere is a crisis I kn elementary and secondary education only inChicago That is . 1 I not in the bill. It says ''in Illinois''. And so, I'm glad that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, through this bill, are acknowledging that there is a crisis in elementary and secondary education in the State of Illinois. And yet, khe Governor just unvelled a budget that does practically -- almost virtually nothing to address that crisis, even though he is ''The Educatlon Governor''. Yesterday in the Senate Education Committee, We had an amendment that was voted down that was for the purpose of protecting Chapter I dollars in the Chicago public schools, the only dollars that have been available to the Chicago public 1 schools to implement the reform legislation passed by this Body in 1988. It was a revenue-neutral bill that was passed in 1988. But since 1988, we have not given the Chicaso publlc schools one addltional dollar. We have told the Chicago public schools time and time again, as we are telling them again this year, that they i must find their own solutions, that the General Assembly, even Ehough lt declares in this bill that there is a crisis, that the General Assembly cannot act - Will not act - on that crisis: for that school -- for that school district or any other school district in the State of Illinois. And I find it very interesting that the sponsors could not find a school dkstrict in Ehe State of Illinois Without a three-hundred-million-dollar deficit where they could implement this experimental program - this pilot program . Why couldnd: a school dls*rict wikhouk *he deficit be found? Maybe that's because We have a growing nunber of schcol distrtcts with deficlts. The last time that this legislative Body helped the Chicago public schools deal with its facilities' problems - with the crumbling school buildings, the leaky roofs thae are I fallingr the plaster falling on the heads of students - the last Eime that we dealt with the Chicago public schools was in 1989, 41 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8. 1995 when the Capitol Development Board made ten million dollars available - ten million dollars - half of what this bill is going to cost. That's what we dld, and yet the Chicago public schaots have over a billion dollars worth . of construction and rehabilitation needs that is part of that crisis that this Body refuses to address. And yesterday we couldn 't even protect the lifeblood of reform : Chapter I dollars. The same individuals who are proponents of this bill voted against protecting Chapter I dollars. We are pitting Catholiç schools agalnst four hundred and ten thousand schoolchildren in the City of Chicago . And I feel bad about that, because in the gallery and back home there are a 1ot of hardworklnsr responsible families who make tremendous sacrifices to put their kids in Catholic schools - hardworking, good families - and yet many of these families have been misled lnto thinking that they are going to get a twenty-five-hundred-dollar voucher and that their areas are going to qualify. Wellr I say to you that based on the language in this bill, even though the advisory council hasn't even been established yetr the decision has been made as to Where this subdistrkct is going to be, just based on the description in this bill. And so for those of you who think that maybe you have a chance to be included in there, you're being misledz and I feel bad about that, because we've got some very good people who need and want to send their children to a Catbolic school. Let's not be pitting one group against another. Let's deal W1th *he crisls. LeEls raise Ehe money. Let's ralse the money to do this experiment. Let's get the Illtnois Manufacturers' Association to pu* in as much as khey put ln Eo kill the education constitutional amendment in the State of Illinois. Let's get them to contrlbute to this pilot voucher program, and let's do it in an area where we can get a true partnership goins. And let's do it after -- after We've come to grips and Nedve assumed our responsibili*y for 42 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 I dealing With the educational crisis in the State of Illinois. I That's what should be happening, no* trying to create the smoke screen that allows my colleagues on the other side of the aisle to point to the people in the City of.chicago and say, ''We're With you. We're really doing something to lmprove education for you.'' Well, I Want the cktizens of the City of Chicago, particularly those in the Chicago public school system, to know that we are subtracting; we are now in a qame of subtraction here. It was bad enough when we wouldn't put a slngle dollar on the Eable. Now with unfunded mandates, like charter schools - fifteen in the City of Chicago - why was it good enough to put charter schools downstate/ but we cannot include downstate in this project? Why was tt? Why was it? Why was it? Why -- why -- pleaser I -- Mr. President, can I get the -- the respect and the courtesy that I deserve?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Yes, sir. Proceed, Senator. SENATOR dEL VALLE: Thank you. Thank you. Unfunded mandates are taking auay dollars. Eifteen charter schools. That's subtraction. Pifteen charter schools and other steps that are being taken. This is a twenty-million-dollar bill - tgenty million dollars. If you can deal with my three-hundred-million-dollar deficitr then we can s1t down and talk. Thank you.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discussion? Senator palmer.
Thank you, Mr. President and Members of the Body . To the bill: I certalnly respect those parents, families, school members and so forEh who have come down here today in support of this bill. But I am very stronqly opposed to it, and it goes, I thinkr to the very heart of the struggle in this country for public I 43 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legisla*ive Day March 8, 1995 school education. Some Senators have spoken very eloquently about tbe tradition of this country, and I would jus: llke Eo remind you that, in fact, in this country -- and perhaps you might llke to read Lawrence Cremin's book, ''American Education''y to remind ycurselves of how long it took us to create the common school in this country. It was not a given at the beginning of tine. And, in fact, in this country, at various timesy We have denied access to many, many groups of people. It has not been that lonç ago that people stood in *he doorway of schools and denied access to people. It has not been Ehat long ago when girls were not necessarily allowed to go to school. So, I remind you that the most fundamental riçht in this country that we should be protecting is the right of a11 to have adequate and equitable funding for education. Now, at the sane time there is a tension in this country and interestingly, education becomes the middle person in that tug-of-war - between diminishing resources and a kind of tendency that seems to be growing this country to say there's not enough for a11 of us versus expandlng and sharing the resources - something that I strongly believe in. Public schcols depend upon public suppart. That is the fundamen*al basis of our school system. And I agree with Senator de1 Valle When he asked the questlon, if this is a partnershlp, where are the private dollars; Wherg are the private supports for this? WheEher we like it or not - and certainly I don't like it - Me are very dependent upon the property tax as the means of supporting education. Instead of carving out a tiny niche, why aren 't we figuring out hoW to share the resources much beyond the narrcw scope and narrow cast Ehat we have given to such support? But that has not been the case. And 1et me just say to you, there's a fundamenkal contradictkon wlthin this aody. When I flrst came down here in 1991, comlng out of working very strongly with the school reform movement in Chicaqo, I participated in the -- up and doWn the 44 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT I 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 I corridor, working with the Republican side cn school reform, to help support, at hone in Chicago, the grassroots parents' movement to have some control and input into their schools - the local school councils. Remember them? Remember when this Body Norked very hard on their behalf? And yet here we are saying, ''No: nor no, let's not support that anymore. In factr let's take some af the money away from them .'' Let me remind you of what ls in this bill, speclfically. Number oney the voucher program will be paid for in its enttrety by divertkng five miltton in State aid fron the already financially troubled public schools - divertlng, not adding to. secondly, the Chicago Board of Education will have State aid deducted for the cost of a11 vouchers, including vouchers for students Who never attended Chicaço public schools, but they uill only be able Eo count Ehose students who previously attended Chicago public schools for the purpose of apportioning State aid. Thirdly, there are no estabkished standards in this bill, and yet we are very busy saylng to the chicago schools that they should have standards. Fourthly, there is no evidence that vouchers improve student performance; there is no objective evidence. And I urge you, if you have some, let us knaw what it is. And finally, wedre going to be mlcrcmanaging, because this Body -- this bill establishes a Council of Advisers to be appointed by the Governor, the President of the Senate, the Speaker of the House, the Minority Leader of the Senate and the Minority Leader of the House. We have no business doing that. We should go back to what we were doing before: empowering parents, empowering local systems to have some control, and being able to fund adequaEely and equitably the publlc system in the State of Illinois.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Eurther discussion? Senator Raica .
45 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8: 1995 Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the I Senate. You know, when we talk about adequately funding the education system kn the State of Illinois, the real question would ber ''What would be adequate?'' How nuch money is needed to fix the system? I mean, anybody could name a billion dollars or two billion dollars. It's like trying to fix a hole in a roof. It leaks this year, so you patch it; it leaks nexk year, you patch it; then you have another hole, you patch that one. Sooner or later you need a new roof. Sooner or later you need to put on a new roof. Maybe that's possibly what welre sayin: here. I think that why I'm offended by some comments are -- I don't know if my district's going to be affected by this whatsoever, because I do have not a wealthy community, by no means, but a 1ot of my constituents may not meet this. But the strange thing about it isr a lot of the people from the lnner city of Chicago that represent those constituents, on that side of the aksle, are against the bill to bring money to their constituents. So, I mean, it Would be -- why would you possibly turn that away? We -- We come here and debate the issue of education for the public school system - and I'm -- I'm going to direct a 1ot of my conments toward Chlcago - and we -- we attempt to -- to have teachers' pension fund money directed so that they can -- it can go towards their salary and not towards their pension. We attempt to do al1 sorts of things for these people. But what aboqt -- competency testing for teachers? Money is not going to fix that system . I think this Body - and I've only been here êigh: years - has proven EhaE time and time aqain. In addition, every time they're on the picket line, in the City of Chicagor we've proven that time and time again. I don't see Catholic schools going out on strike because living conditions or kids are not learning or produclng. And when we say, what about private dollarsl Where are the private doklars to qo into something like this? Well, my understanding, Senator 46 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 -- I have a questlon of the sponsor.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) IndicaEes he will yield : Senator Raica.
Senator Cronin, these are taxpayers' dollars that wedre talking about here that can -- that is used for this program?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin.
Taxpayers' dollars that will be directed to individuals who then exercise a choice.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Raica.
When we Ealk abouE private money -- my kids go to a Catholic school. A 1ot of parents -- my parents sacriflced, when I was growing up, to put me to a Catholic school and I attempted to do the same for my kids. What's wrong are we considering that parents who send their kids to Catholic schoolsy that's not private dollars? Not only are they paying to send their kids to school, but they 're paying to send every kid in the State of Illinois to school, by the nere fact that they pay taxes. But for us to say, ''Wait, they don't have a say-so on what goes on'', I beg to dlffer with everyone. Maybe tt's time that Ne take people and open this up to everyone, and if they want to keep their kids in a public school, 1e* Ehem do so. If Ehey want Eo send their kids to a Catholic or private schooly 1et them do so. The point is, the kids have to learn. Theydre not learninq in the environment they're in today. Theyfre in school for the first period, atkendance is taken; by *he fifth period they dre gone. And then What do the teachers conplain about? ''We11, ue need more money.'' Half these teachers only are there a couple of days a Week anyway. 47 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 I They teach one period, they go on break, they maybe have a study, and theylre gone. So letds start thinklng about the kids and -- and stop thinking about evgryEhing else and puEtlng money lnto a system that really has shown it really doesn't work. Private money -- I thtnk we ought to give this opportunity to everyone in the State of Illinois and -- and I Ehink lt's a good way to go. And for the first time, maybe these kids will learn something.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discussion? Senator Welch.
Thank your Mr. President. If this bill was only about the issue of whether parents cf a11 sEudents - Cathollc and non-catholic - should be funded, get money from the State because tbey contrlbute to the State treasury, I thlnk it would be a simple vote. I think most of us - the vast majcrity - would support that. One of the most difficult questions, I thlnk, on the campaign trail is when parents ask, ''If I can pay my taxes, why can't I get any of my money back for my son or daughter going to a Catholic school?'' But the problem that we see is when the State gets invalved in education, there are many strlngs attached. Many of you here are not from the Chicago district that's going to end up with these two thousand vouchers. And I can gauge that by the fact that you a11 applauded when Senator O'Malley said we should expand Ehis program statewide. But just look at how this program is being funded. This is an indication of how the State would fund a statewide program for vouchers. The proponents are not adding more money to *he itake education budgeE. Theydre not addlng five milllon dollars; they're taking away from what is khere. Theyfre cannlbalizing the existlng funding for the students that We currently say We are responsible for. If We expand it to another three hundred thousand studentsg four hundred thousand students, the proponents should not kid themselves that 48 ! STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 there will be a tax increase to pay more money for Ehose Pxtra Ehree hundred, or four, thousand students, in addition to the students we are currently responslble for. What will happen is the current budget, as inadequate as it is, will be divvied up'. and divvied up againr so that there will be less and less money avallable to fund students. For those of you who haven't followed the public schools, who are here, we rank forty-eigheh in the country in Cunding public schools from the state . Forty-eighth . Do you really want to be thrown into this system where we control what you teach: how you teach it, who 's qualified to teach? I think you're taking on a lot of headaches. The separation of church and state is not just to proteat government from churches; it's to protect churches frcm governmenty as well. Because as money goes to you, so do restrictions, so do certaln requirements and obligations. If you look over the past ten years, the school reforms wedve had before this this year's reforms al1 requlred additional testing, additional courses to be taught, additional requirements of teachers, al1 imposed on the public schools. Now, a few years from now, when the pclltical wlnds change - and I assume at some point in the future they will, and the Democrats are back in power - why wouldn't these same requirements be installed again? And wouldn't they apply to charter schools? Wouldn 't they apply to schools that receive vouchers? And wouldn't you regret the situation you had put yourself by having your school subject to State requirements once again? Exactly the reason why this country was founded was so that the State could not establish a religion or interfere with your religious rights, Would come to pass here ln Illlnois. We would be the first State to be telling private schools, Catholic schools, how Eo run their schools. That is the last thin: that you Want. Ladies and Gentlemen, this isn't an easy vote. I think that parents of Catholic schools do deserve some type of fundlng. 49 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 We do give textbooks to private schools; We do give some transportatlon money to parents of students going to private schools. I wish We could do nore. I don't know if it's constitutional or not. But I Would say thls: If We could come up with the money ën addition to what we 're funding elementary and secondary education at at this tlmer I think this would probably be a good idea, if it was a statewide program, if we could come up with more money to fund a1l the kids of the State. Because our ultimate responsibility is to help chlldren - not necessarlly parents, but the children. I think that is our responsibility ' j under the Constitution. Because those chlldren become adults and the better educated they are, the better the State will be, the less crime we'll have, and maybe we can start to fight the root causes of the problems we have in this State. But I don't think i this is the answer. I think this is qoing to result in a great nany problems. The funding problen is one; the requlremen*s of -- of State con*rol is another. And I think that this bill is going to be a hoax upon the parents of Catholic school students throughout the State of Illinois. It's holding out the hope that more is going to happen if this pilot program works. If lt does work, will the money be there to help you out in the future? I don't think so. And I think that's the major problen With this l proposal. It makes a prcmise that won't be kept. And I think that the schoolchildren of *he State of Illinois have had too many promises to them broken to add one more promise to that heap. Thank you.
PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Purther discusslon? Senator Butler.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President. I'm going Eo kind of I give an omnibus Reader's Digest answer to several questions that have -- that have bothered me, simply because I think they Were, ' I 50 STATE OF ILLINOIS 69TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 perhaps to put it most kindly, based on misinformation. First of all, thgre's bgen several mentlons about the crlsis we have in -- ln -- throughout the entire State and Why are We focusing on Chicaqo. Well there's a simply fact, Ladies and Gentlempn: Chicago 's a mess. It's a catastrophe. It's sinking fast. We have to do something. And to the spectous argument that -- that we're taking five million dollars away -- Ne're going -- somehow they're going to -- require to find three hundred million dollars from us. You know doggone well it's not going to come out of -- out of the Chicago system, because the way it's -- it's controlled and managed. So they're going to be two hundred and ninety five million dollars in the hole if we -- We -- if we didn 't do this. And to the commentz Senator, about the leaky roofs, I have to remind you that the State has poured billions of dollars into the Chicago system, and eighty percent of it Went into salary increases. And maybe if the teachers passed up one raise one year, they could fix the roofs. But who comes first? Not the kids. Not *he kids. The teachers' salaries come first. You dll note in this -- this program, there's nothing said about salaries. We're not going to buy our way lnto excellence. We 're going to say, ''Here. Here's up to twenty-five hundred dollars. Use lt Eo the besE way you can possibly do it.'' And I might add -- I might add that -- it costs Chicago about four thousand two hundred dollars in K through 12; whereas, the -- the largest parochial system , it only costs nineteen hundred. And I suppose the argument could be made, ''We11, you know, give khem the twenty-five hundred.'' That's what I heard over there. But maybe they only need nineteen hundred to do a good job. And alsoy incidentally, theaveragecontributionthat'sraisedbyeachparochialschoolis 1 l about five hundred dollars per pupil. That's the reason why they can do lt for nineEeen hundred dollars, because the -- the actual cost is covered -- or helped, rather, by five hundred from the I 51 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislatlve Day March 8, 1995 parentsy et cetera. Secondly, since I'm not a lawyer, I -- I don't feel too comfortable in this except to give a layman's I opinion and that is, lt seens to me that -- that there are elght lawyers giving opinions on this and if We -- if we really got it down to the -- down to the nitty-gritty, they'd probably have twelve different opinions as to why this thing wouldnlt work. I thlnk that it deserves a -- it deserves a trial, simply -- because I don't take anybody 's word in this room that this is unconstitutional. I respect you as attorneys, but ycu are not the Supreme Courtr and I would like to see this end up, finallyr once and for all, forever and ever, decided by the Supreme Court. In -- 1et me -- in -- in closing, 1et ne -- 1111 cu* this short. Senator del Valle: there are -- it isn't fifteen charter schools in Chlcago. You will recall there's fifteen in Chicago, fifteen in the suburbs, and flfteen dcwnstate. So wedre not -- wepre not really picking -- wedre not really picking on Chicago. But Chicago needs the help, and that's where We're going. A11 of these programs are focused on Chicago, nok because we think that we -- wg should pick on them, because they're in desperate need of -- of help. And finallyy Senator Trotter, you said that this -- this has the -- this has the tone of being elitist. Well, 1611 tell you what: I went to public schools. I've -- I've been given many titles in my life, but I also now find I'm an elitistr since I'm in favor of Ehis and also stnce I had a publkc school education. So, Ladies and Gentlemen, for twenty years this -- these problems have been kicked around. We're finally trying ko start something. Let's give it a try. Maybe there's mistakes. But how wrons can we be when you look at Chicago today? It's a mess. It's get*ing worse. Letls try Eo help them some way and not just - - just cry about We need more and more money. So let's do it.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further dlscussion? Senator Shaw. I 52 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 SENATOR SHAW : 1 . Thank you, Mr. presidenE. I hadn't -- no intentlons of speaking on this bill, but with the -- in light of somebody brought me a handful of petitions, asking me to support this -- thls legislation. And the bulk of my district happens to be in the south suburb: not in Chicago. But I greN up in Chicago, and I know the need of Chicago, and -- and particularly as it relate to education. I thtnk that what we need to look at -- and some of those people who talk about Chicago school system is a messr it is a mess. But those of us who serve in this Bcdy made it that Way because we didn't fund education as -- at the level that we should have funded at. And scmebody mentioned the -- the teachers only work two hours or something. Well, I take offense at Ehat, because I've been in many schools, in Chicago, and around my district, where those teaehers are khere a11 day and some of them ' even spend extra time after school in the classroon, trylng to help youngsters. So that's a person that -- a person that Would make that type of statement evidently don't know anythlng about education in Chicago. But to the bill: If We wanted to -- right now we lre taking -- this bill attempts to take twenty mlllion dollars out of the school fund, from Chicago, raid the treasurer of the Board of Education of Chicago . If yau really wanted to do I somethlng - and you al1 have the majority on that side of the aisle - why don 't you give everybody, every cltizen, th#t have children in the schools, a tax crediE? But, no, you don't want to do that. You want to -- you don't wank to take the money out of the Revenue Department here Where it'll impact on the State budget; you wan: to come to Chicago and take the money out of that fund, Where it impacts on thousands -- on the four hundred and ten thousand youngsters that are attending school there. But I thlnk 1 1 that if you -- if you really was trylng to help education, lnstead of -- in the Governor's Budget Message where you're talking about i 53 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Leglslative Day March 8, 1995 youlre funding it at two hundred and nlnety-four thousand dollars, when actually, you're only giving a hundred and ninety-one thousand to elementary and secondary and higher education. That's trying to pull the wool over the people's . eyes. And the people doWn here, they -- that are in the gallery, they don't understand this. A11 they know is what Ehey read kn Ehe paper. But glad that they are here today to hpar *he debate on the Floor of the Senate about education. You talk about Chicago in terms of we're pouring money into Chicago. Do you realize how nuch money =- uithout Chicago, you wouldn't probably have a skate. And if you don't like putting money into the funding mechanism for this whole entire State, then you should introduce a resolukion where that Chlcago could secede from this State, as it's now known, and 1et Chicago become a state. That's what you should do. And because - - everybody ge* up and use Chicago as a whipping boy. think that is bad, and I think you 're dividing the people and you're misleading the people of this -- of this State. What should be done, you should withdraw this bill and tell the people that are sitting around here in the gallery, tell them the truth. Don't :et up and paint this with sugar, because you're not telling them the truth, and they 'll go back home and tell their people Ehat they dre going to get windfall money in terms of sending their children to private school. But that's not true. You know it's not true. And when -- a year or tWo down the road, thqylre going to know it's not true, and they should penalize you for Thank you very much.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discussion? Senator Lauzen.
Thank you, Mr. President. You know, we must be kldding when We say that voucher funding represents subtraction. One oppongn: called i: cannibalizing. A recent speaker called it a raid on the 54 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8: 1995 treasury. Let's say that the education of a child costs about fifty- five hundred dollars tn the district Where this is going to l take place. Consider that twenty-five hundred dollars of this money is going to go with the child, exercising the choice of the ' parents. That leaves three thousand dollars that s*ays behind with nochild to educate. How itthatsubtraction? Taxpayers in 1 Illinols do send eight hundred and forty million dollars into Chicago, about thirty-four percent of the budget. To get an idea of how much eight hundred and forty million dollars is, the International Monetary Fund pooled about nine hundred million dollars in 1994 to rebuild the country of Vietnam. Every year We send that amount into Chicago and it then attracts in another federal amount of about three hundred and eighty million, if I'm not mistaken, which represents fifteen percent. Chicago's school system is being supported about fifty percent by federal and tax money. With that amount of noney and with the results in the most recent study showing forty-two percent dropout, I think that We're required to do somethlng. And I believe that this -- that this pilot program is for everyoner especially for the poor. I think that everyone in this Body recognizes that those people who are fortunate enough to have the money to make the choice: the rich can send their children wherever they want to go. But the poor, who cannot afford to make that choice, need a pilot project like this. I enthusiastically support Senator Dan Cropin 's bill here, and especially the parents and children Who will benefit by thts pilot project.
PRESIDING OPPICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discussion? Senator Carroll.
Thank you, Mr. President, Members of the Senate. At least, as to this Senator, this may be one of Ehose occasions where the debate may have, in fact, impacted how I will vote. Yesterday, by 55 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 I the Way, I think it was one of those days when the debate made a difference on a particular bill. I walked in here today mos: likely supporting this legislation. I have supported, this Sesslonr charter schools. I am the sponsor of, akong wlth Senator Geo-xaris, the original textbook bill, and transportation funding. And 1'11 tell ycu What made the difference to me, today: the amendment. The original bill I thought was a good idea, at least a decent idea that said to a pupil in the public schools, dlLet's create a choice for you.'' A choice that Will pay about twenty-five hundred dollars a year for two thousand people to choose an alternative to a system that may not be worklng well, and glve them a chance to be educated. But Amendnent 3 changed a1l that and changed my mind as Well, and 1et me tell you Why. With now a student and its parents having to first applyr no longer knowing how many will apply, there is no longer a knowledge by those seeking an alternative that the funding Will be there for them Eo have an alternative . They nay only get five hundred dollars, a thousand dollars. There's no way of knowing until after they have made tbe commitment to some other educational system . Sor I thlnk What's really going to happen is, those currently in the public system who are at a near-poverty level cannot afford to take that choice. And a1l this is now, with the amendment, is a subsidy to those who have already chosen a different alternative than the public schoolsr who are already paying too mgch, but paying - through a 1ot of sacrifice, buk paying - and We are saying to theme ''If you apply, wedll give you some back EhaE you are already paylng.'' So ycu are not offering an innovative alternative to public school students to find a better way for an education. And I think the proof of that was in the fact that noW - the original bill again said you had to be in public When this started - the five million comes out of the public school funds. Originally, that made sense to me. If the kids were no longer going to public, 56 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislatlve Day March 8: 1995 1et the funds follow the kids. NoW youdre saying even if a1l five million were to be a subsidy to those who already chose a private or parochial school - Whether that be a Catholic school, a Jewish school, or a -- Nation of Islam school - they are already in those schools: not using the publlc system, so the monies aren 't flowing from monies that we spent last year educating these kids in the public school systen . The monies are coming from those kids who are stlll in the public school systemr 'cause the only ones, I think, who will be able to avail thenselves of this planz as I amended, are those who had already chosen never to use the public school system, and you're not giving the type of alternative that I think a charter school and other ideas like Joe Kellman School have done, and I therefore could not support it.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discussion? Senator DeAngelis. SENATOR DeANGELIS: Thank you, Mr. President. First of all, I would like to announce that I'm Willing to take an oath to ensure that what Senator Shaw said is inaccurater and that is that we're a11 lylng. So I would be wtkling to take the oathr Senator Shaw, to ensure that I'm nat lying. You know, people are saying this is a Chicago ! bill, and it is. Why are we doing this to Chlcago? Some of you may not be aware, the Chicago Board of Education is the second-largest school system in the country. I think almost everybody knows that. What may not be known, so well, is that within Eha: sys*em lies Ehe fifth-largest school sys*em in *he United States, and that's the public -- that's the private and parochial school system. And within khat system lies *he majorlty of the role models, lies the majority of the students who do finish school, lies the majority of the students that go on to college. And I cannot understand Why there's opposition frcm Chicago leglslators of allowing some students Eo access that i 57 STATE 0F ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 system, a system that's far more successful than the public school system. Now, there are also numbers being throNn out. Let me throw out one. There are four hundred thousand private and parochial school studenEs.in the State of Illinols, and as Senator Lauzen saidr it costs abcut fifty-five hundred dollars. You know, I would recommend to those parents who have their kids in these schools, in khe public and private, next fall register -- just register your students for public school and then try to figure out how the State of Illinois is going to come up With that 2.2 billion dollars to educate those kids. That'll scare the living bejesus out of them. And we're worried about five million? Let's go for the two billion two. Thank you.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discussion? Senator Jones.
Thank your Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR KAITLAND) Indicates he will yieldy Senator Cronin -- Senator Jones, I'm sorry.
Senator Cronin, in your opening remarks, you refer -- you inferred something as related to the tuition and the twenty-five hundred dollars. Can you explain that again, exactly what you sald? You said the State will pay whatever the tuition is or up to twenty-five hundred dollars. Am I correct? Is that hoW you couched it?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin.
It's been so long since I started With my opening remarksr I'm no* sure exactly what youdre referring Eo. Bu* I can Eell you that the the administrative council the advisory council 58 1 STATE 0F ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 that is set up in this bill has discretion to award vouchers to qualifylng students up to twenty-five hundred dollars. And that twenty-five hundred dollars is indeed taxpayer moneye yes. ' 1 ; PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Jones. SENATOR JONES: Then if -- say the tuitlon is one thousand dollars per year, so the voucher Would be only for one thousand dollars for that given school. Am I correct? PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin. SENATOR CRONIN: Your -- your insight is very goad here, because We recognkze that there are many schools in the -- the subdistrict that We have in mind, that may have a kuitlon that's less than twenty-five hundred dollars. So the argument that some of your collêagues said, that this is a sham and -- and is misleading people, We Want them to know that if there is a situation where the -- the tuîtkon may be sixteen hundrêd or seventeen hundred dollars, as ls the case in many elementary grammar schools, that we're not going to say that they must get tWenty-five hundred dollars. We're going to give them the latitude - the council has the latitude - to award a sixteen-hundred- or a sevenEeen-hundred-dollar voucher, and then the remaining money can qo back into the program to give *he access and empowerment to someone else. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Jones. SENATOR JONES: Well, is Ehere any provislons in the bill that says if the tuition ls twelve hundred dollars this year, and the next year it jumps to twenty-four hundred dollars, is there any provisions kn the bill to prevent the tuition from drastically lncreasing: 59 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 I thereby causlng that voucher to go up Eo *he max amounE?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin.
Welle each year a student must apply and must quallfy. So each year those decisions are made.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Jones.
Well, since that provision is not there, I can guarantee you Ehis is whatds going to happen, ls Ehat if the tuition for one year is twelve hundred dollars, I can almost guarantee you, the next year it's soing to be close to twenty-five hundred dollarsy to maximize the efforE. Thatls golng to happen. There's no provisions in therey and Ehat doesn't have anythinq to do with the cost of education, per se, or the cost of educating that child. So if it's not inLthe bill, it's not in writing; so therefore, you answered my questkon. I know it's been a long tlme, but I remember. But I went throuqh the public schools. Sor I understand quite weLl. But that -- thaE was not a question. That was not a question, Senator. So, I stand in oppositicn to the bill for several reasons. And there are several Catholics in this Bodyz and I'm a Catholic/ and I -- I know my parish school, which my children attend - ny childrên attend thê public schools qqually as Well. But -- but I don't Want to castigate the public schools. It is our sworn duty as leglslators to deal with the publlc institutions. I heard remarks made on the oEher side of the aisle as related to teachers. And I resent the inferences that the teachers -- some only teach -- most only teach two days a week; theyfre only there for the fifth -- up to the fifth period . That's Wrong to make a statement like that. I think the teachers who Eeach in the inner city are teachers who do their level besE I 60 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 to deal with ehildren who suffer from a11 societal problems, which is thrust in *he classroom, and they do their level best, as a whole. So to categorize a1l those teachers as suchg I think is wrong and -- and -- and it should not have been said on this Senate Floor. As We talk about -- I heard talk about the budgetz said they can't manage their money. It's -- it's easy for you to sit here and attack a system that has a balanced budget, but I I never heard you say the same thing abcut the two-billion-dollar deficit that Governor Edgar has in the SEate of Illinois. You haven't said one mumbling word. And if you 're going to talk about privatizing -- and maybe that's the direction that we are going . Wefre going to privatize prisons. We 're going to privatize DCFS. Youdre going to privatize Mental Health. So We're going to privatize education. If that's the direction we're going, let's E be honest about it. The tWo -- the three hundred thousand -- the three-hundred-milllon-dollar defici: does no* stem from mismanagement. If that's the case, then the two billion dollars that the people of Illinois are faced with is due to mismanagenent of the Governor of the State of Illinois. You have not said that. But you 're going to attack the Chicago public school sysEemv and it's wrong to do that. Furthernore: we continue to talk about funding of education in this State. I recall at one point in the - - in the time where the State was at forty-eight percent in funding - close to it. But now we're just the opposite. We rank forty-eighth out of fifty states in funding education in Illinois. That's a sad eommentary, for us to stand on *he Floor with all this hypocrisy as it relate to education. So in other words, you l can take five thousand dollars and :et just as much with five thousand as you can for twelve thousand dollars at some school districts in the State of Illinois. If ever there Was a clear example of class legislation, this is it. This is it. Por those who Ealk abouE educationr i: was private education and only the I 61 STATE OF ILLINOTS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislakive Day March 8, 1995 rich at that tlme, when the country was very young, only the rich could afford to educate their children. So public education came into being. came lnto being for those who were denied the opportunlEy, Ehose who did not have *he wealth, those who didn't have the resources to educate their children, and that's What we have -- we as legislators in the State of Illinois have sworn and taken the oath to do. And we still have not done i*. And we Ealk about the system being bad. It's not the fault of the child who is born in an impoverished area. It's not the fault of the child because he does nct have the same economic base as some other chlld born in a more affluent area. But you want to punish the child. You, turn, say it's going to improve the education in Chicago, a system that facing a deficit for the next fiscal year. So, therefore, in order to help them, you don't give them money; you take more money out. That's not how you fund educatlon, you talk about helping the children. So is a question of choice. It's a question of choice. And ln my o<n parish, and I've said it time and time again to the principal of our school, my commitment ls to public education. When ny child went to our parish school, it was my choice, and I pay taxes like anyone else. But I chose to do it -- 'cause we have a very small family parish in the Morgan Park community. My choice. And I -- and I decided to pay the additional cost. So we cannot stand on this -- on this Floor of this -- of this Body and spy, ''We11, theydre paying taxes.'' Everyone's paying taxes. And you're always going to pay taxes. And you may not receive everything you pay taxes for, but everything you get youdre goins to pay for. But let's not try to say a choice. The private schools have a choice and Ehey choose to take the students that they Want. Every student cannot go to a private schoolz because they have a ehoice of selection. And you 're going to compare apples and oranges -- oranges. The public schools must take every child. Those Who 62 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSJON SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 have learning problems, those who have social problems, they must kake it. so amazing to me on this -- on this Ploor, as we talk about education and we talk about trylng to help children this Stater we almost can get one-hundred-percent vote to build a new prison, bu* when you try Eo get money to educate a childy then you come up with all the so-called reforms that you need. Most of those youngsters incarcerated in prison are dropouts out of schcol. They are dropouts. But yet and still - yet and still you say, ''Build more prisons. Qhat solves the problem .'' Noe all you're doing is creating a time bcmb that all society will payy and they 're going to pay dearly down the road. But let's not talk about Chicago. I see you slip in the City of Chicago. You like the City of Chicago. You use a11 its goods and services; you use its lakefront; you use its museums; you go to its restaurants; you do al1 these great things, Whieh -- which in turn cause a financial -- creates a financial problem for the City of Chicago. But it's bad. IE's bad, Eo you. So let's not play those a1lly games. If you want to deal with education, lf it's good, Senator O'Malley, statewide, tell your colleague right now - right now to get an amendment drafted. We can call the bill back to 2nd and make it statewide for a11 the nlne hundred school districts across this State. And you know what's going to happen? It's golng to fail, because you will not support 1t. The south suburbs' schoolsr who are in worse shape than the City of Chicago : the Senator's not going to support it from there, because this is the hypocrisy that We face here, as related to education. It's very unfortunate when you can talk abouk how bad, how mismanaged Chicago is because they have a deficit for the next school year. But I want you to tell that man who sits on the Second Floor' that two-billion-dollar deficit. But you don't say he's mismanagtng it; it's just the hi%her cost of doing business. Very unfortunaEe.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) 63 STATE OP ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 Purther discussion? Senator Shadid.
Yes. Will the sponsor yield to a question? PRESIDING OFFICER: (SZNATOR MAITLAND) . Indicates he will yield, Senator Shadld.
Senator Cronin, is there a provision to quallfy ehat pertains to the income -- the annual income of a family?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Cronin.
Xes. We -- we have specifically cutlined that this is for lower-income familiesy thcse kho -- only those eligible would be those who fall Within certain guidelines set out by the National School Lunch Act. And as I said it in my opening remarks, for a family of four, it's about an income of twenty-etght thousand eight hundred and sixty dollars.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Shadid.
In other words, anycne with a family of fourr the total income for the famtly, and if it goes over twenty-four or twenty-eight thousand, uhatever Ehat number is, theydre not eligible at all to qualify.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Crpnin.
Well, Senator Shadid, I would have liked Eo raise that level and f Would have llked to had it apply beyond a pilot programr and there 's a 1ot of things I Would have liked to have done to meet some of khese speeches -- opposing arguments over there. If you're looking for a Way to oppose ity just voEe No. But We had I 64 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 to craft this bill because khis was the only way We could get it through this Bady.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Shadid.
Senator, T'm not looking for a way to oppose it. I am going to oppose this bill. I'm bringing this out for clarification so that everyone understands Whether they qualify or not and give them the actual numbers of what their income be or has to be before they can qualify. Thank you very much.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discussion? Senator Philip.
Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Centlemen of Ehe Senate. And I rise in support of Senate Bill 17. And just so you know where I'm coming from, I am a product of public schools. I'm proud af that. I think I've received a good education. My fanlly is a product of public schools. My brother has been a schoolteacher and is retired. I have Ewo sister-in-laws Who are teaching - one in Texas, one in Illinois. Why have I come to the conclusion that we ought to try charter schools and vouchers? And 1911 tell your it doesn't take a Phi Beta Kappa or any genius to fi:ure out why. And generally speaking in Illinois and in the suburban area, in my area particularlyy our schools are very good. There are some pockets where they aren't so gcod . But generally speaking in the suburban area and downstate, Ehey do a preEty good job. So where are the problems ln the school system? They always have been, since I've been here, basically in the City of Chicago, for a lot of different reasons. Ever since I've been here we've been trying to reform the system, well over twenty years. And very honestlyg we haven't even dented the system . About the only thing we've been doing here for twenty years - and there certainly 65 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GZNERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 is a lot of people with short memories on the other side of the aisle - has been givin: them more money. Every year for twenty years welve given them mora money, into a very unfair, unconstitutlonal school aid formular whlch, quite frankly, . stiffs the suburbs. My averaqe school districty in my districtr gets six percent. Then you know whak they tell m9: ffTake off the nandates and you can have your money .'' Chicago gets, and fluctuates every year, somewhere around thirty-seven percent. And what has happened is that the unions, the teachers, the system, have let us down in the Clty of Chicago. They're the ones that have created this problem . Because you know what? They're not educating kids. Test scores are down; yet, we're sending more money. Secretary Bennett said, after he toured the schools -- I didn't say It's not Pate Philip. What does he say? ''The worst school systen in America .'' Now, happen to think that Was an exaggeration. I would probably say it's one of the worst school systems in America. But it's not the worst. So -- We're frustrated on this side of the aisley very honestly, because we haven't been able to do anything or change anything other than give you more money. That's about al1 we've accomplished. And What -- the results are worse; the tests scores are Worse; the dropouts are worse; the crime is worse. What's better? Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. So time for competition. If we can 't change it, we can't intimidate you, if We can't make you better, maybe we ouqht ko give you some competitlon. You know what? When have competition in *he primary, 1$11 tell you one thing, I work harder and I do a better job. We al1 know that's true. I used to be in the bread business a long time aqo . And 1111 Eell you one thing: Do We have competition in the bread business? Oh ho-ho, we have got competition. Somebody comes up wlth a new product; we want to come up with a new product. It's makes us better. It keeps us on our toes, and we do a better job because We Want to survive. NoW 66 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 you know what? And why don't you on the other side of the aisler for a change, think about the kids and not ehe unions and the teachers? How about the kidsy for a change? Just one time, think about the kids. And if this kid can 't fill out an application - and I've seen 'em when I used to work; I'm retired - and the kid has a high school diploma from Chicago and can't spell Chicago, you're going to hire 'em? would be surprlsed. And if you don't -- if they don't find a job, where do they end up? 1111 tell you where they end up. In jail, or on welfare, and We pay ten times more. The best thing we can do for minorities in the State of Illinois is educate their kids so they have an opportunity to have a chance. That's *he best thing you could do for anybody. And about time. It's abcut time my Demoeratic friends over there stand up and be counted and do the right thing, and forget about your union ties, your teacher ties. Give this system some competitton so we can look two years fron now and three years from noW and say, ''Hey, you know what? The schools are getting better. The grades are better; the attendance are better; there's less crime.'' So anyway, I have -- I have come to that conclusion, and r say I'm T'm a prcduct of khe system . And generally speaking, downstatg is pretty good. But there certainly is a superior problem in the City of Chicagor and very honestly, we ought to do something about This a good vote. There ought to be fifty-nine votes up there, without a hesitation.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Further discussion? Senator Cronin, to close.
Thank you very much, Mr. President. I want to Ehank SenaEor Philip. couldn'E say any better than hin. I Would like to briefly respond and close. Senator Shaw said he 's glad that we have visitors up in the gallery today, Where they could lisEen and... 67 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Excuse me, Senator Cronin. Senator Jones, for what purpcse dc you rise, sir?
A point of personal privilege. And that point, Mr. President, and, Senator Cronin, I apologlze for interruptinq you, but when you -- we debated the issue based on the issue, and we tried very hard noE to interjec: what group of children We are talking about and I know the Senate President indicated mincrity children and -- and you say you concur with everything that he says. We're not -- Welre talking about children of the State of Tllinois and let's not -- let's not get down to the point where We're going interject the race of children in the State. I resent that.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MATTLAND) Senator Cronin, you wish to close, sir?
Wikh all due respeet, Senator Phllip's remarks were excellent. would llke to just start out by suggesting that one of the Senators cn the other side of the aisle had a good thought. He said that he expressed that he was pleased that we had many visitors here, so they could see the system and they could understand, presumably, his view of this issue. And -- I just want to join him but for a different reason. I1m glad they're here so that they see what we're up against: what we're up against day in and day out, for people who oppose change; for people vho are devoted to the status quo, that bow to the altar of the establishment of the teachers' union, of the administration; people who only -- the only answer to improve their schools is to say, ''We want more money.'' Wellr you know how much money we spend in the CiEy of Chlcago? Seven thausand dollars per pupil. Seven thousand dollars. That's higher than the average in Dupage County . Seven thousand dollars is not a small sum of naney. Senator 68 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 Berman, ln responding and in closing, he pointed out the crisis in funding language the bill. What's wrcng with this a policy a policy of the State of Illinois that permits a child to choose an education that costs taxpayers twenty-five hundred dollars versus seven thousand dollars? What's wrong with a policy like that, if they choose it? %ou talk about the school aid formula. We -- we -- we Wanted to sweeten the pot for the City of Chicago representaEives. We said that in the event that one of the students leaves the system and goes to a private schoolr then you know what? The City of Chicago can stlll count their attendance for school aid. We wanted to sweeten it. We wanted to -- we didn't want it to be punitive, but that wasn't good enough. If you look at the total expenditure of dollars - 2.9 blllion dollars in the City of Chicago, you divide lt by four hundred and ten thousand students, khat gives you seven thousand per pupil. If you subtract five million from the 2.9 billiony comes down to six thousand nine hundred and eighty-eight dollars per pupil. You're talking about twelve bucks. Nowr listened to Senator Trotter, and T listened -- and -- and I -- I -- forgive me for using namesy but I -- I have to reference their remarks, Senator Hendon, Senator Shaw. aghast. don't particularly want to be the guy that sponsors this bill. You are really misslng tbe boat. This is for you. This is for the people that you represent. You tell me -- you tell me, we're looklng at -- the facts are, the demographics arer that there are lower-income people some districts than there are in other districts. And this ls an effort to try to empower people. Do I -- would like it on a wider appltcation? Would like it in my district? You're darn right. But I can't get the votes to get it into my own district. If you tell me that you'd support it on a wider application, then -- then We'11 -- wetll draft a neW bill. -- believe me. BuE you Eell me -- T mean, Senaeor -- Senaeor Palmer 69 STATE OF ILàINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGDLAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8: 1995 talked about the common sehools. What 's so good about the common schools, with the gangs, and the drugs, and the violencey and the I metal deteetors, and the teenage preqnancy rate? What chance do 1 I I people have that are -- that are confined to that systen and can't I I go anywhere else because they can't afford to qet out? Yau knowr I I I Senator Jones, you send your kids to parochial schools because you I I can afford to send them there. You tell me what the people in I j I your district say, when they say, ''You know What? I'd like ta go I I to the Catholie school, or the Lutheran schoolr or the Christian I I I school, or the Islamic school: but, you knowy I can't afford it. I I ' I So I bave to go to this school, and I got to dodge the gang 1 I bullets on the way. I got to go through the metal detectors.'' What ! I do you say to those people? You know there uas an important 1 I , pointnade bySenatorDeAngelis. Do wehavea vesked interest in 1 1 the private schools? And -- and my -- my information specifically I pertains to the Chicago Catholic schools. Do We have a vested interest? The Chicaqo publlc schools is the second-largest school system in America. Chicago Catholic schools is the seventh-largest school syskem in America . You know, if that ' seventh-largest sehool system doesn 't succeed, there's going to be a 1o* of problems for that second-largest sehool system. So, do Ne have a vested interesE in protecting that system? Youdre darn right We do. Senator Jaccbs talked about the Constitution. The Klinger v. Howard <sic> (HoW1ett) case talks about the fact that under the Pirst Anendment -- if the First Amendnent applles, the State Constitution applies. Senator Welch, you knowr talked about these strings attached and tried to scare people, Ehat there's going to be some strings attached. It's a concerng but We have specifically talked about the fact that the State Board of Education shall not kmpose any further rules and regulations. They are subject to the directlon and the -- of the Council of Advisers. And you know what? If they start imposin: the rules: i 70 STATE OP ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 number onep the qualifying schools don't have to access the program, they can opt out; and number two, 1'11 be the first one down here to sponsor a bill - if I'm still around - to -- Eo pull the plug on that system. He also talked about the forty-eighth in funding from the Skate. I mean, always hear that and just can't help myself. Forty-eighth in funding, When you look at all the sources of funding in the State of Illinoisz the pupils of the State of Illinois and the schcols they attendr We come in at about tenth in the nation - tenth or twelfth. You know, there was a wonderful statemene that you said, Senator Welch, and -- I can't help myself. You saidr you know: today, you know, we 're -- we're decentralizing; wepre doing charter schcolss learning zones, vouchers, but when the Winds of change come and the Democrats are in power, welll go back to the o1d system. We'11 go back to the old system central bureaucraey and -- and government knows best, and -- and -- and more moneyz and nore Work rules, and more unions. If -- if that's the system that you suggest the Denocratic Party stands for: I'm slad everyone's here to ltsten to that. Senator Carroll, -- I got to tell you, I never counked on your vote. mean: you tell me thakr you knowe those who have already chosen private schools are the only ones that are going to access this. This applies evenhandedly. This applies to anyone who fulfills cr fits the qualifying pupil standards. For constitutional reasons, as for pure reason and logicy that's the way it's got to be. Welly I got ko tell you in closing' and I -- and I have a long set of prepared remarks here, but I can tell you that thls is constitutional. Wedve had some of the brightest minds. And you know whae? Tf it's not, the judges will decide. And thakls Why this is a pilot progran. What this bill is about is competitionr empowerment: parental involvement. cosE-effecklve and it's eonstitutional. We need edueational choice. The system -- the system needs educational choice. If we 71 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 don 't have cholce, if we don't give khese kids a chancee if we don't pass this bill today, I am not -- I am not very hopeful about the state of the educational system in the State, the City of Chicago, and America. We have got to do something dramatic. We cannot accept the status quo. This is dramatic to you. To me# it doesn't go far enough. When this bill passes and becomes law, I hope, and I intend, to do everything in my power to see that it succeeds, that the people who are appointed to the council supporb school choice, that Want to nurture this program. And you're darn right. If it succeeds, I'm going to back here and ue lre going to see it on a wider basts, more pilot programs, more competition and better schools. Everyone should vote for this. I appreciate your -- your patiencey and ask for your favorable consideration.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) The question shall Senate Bill 17 pass. Those in favor will vote Aye. Opposedr Nay. The voting is open. Have al1 voted who wish? Have al1 voted cish? Have al1 voted Who Wish? Take the record, Mr. Secretary. On that question on that question -- on that question, there are 31 Ayes, 23 Nays: no Members 1 Member voting Present. Senate Bill havin: received the required constitutional majority, ls declared passed. Senator Bernany for what purpose do you arises sir?
I'd ask for a verification of the affirmative vote.
PRESIDING OFFICCR: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Berman has requeshed a verificatlon of the affirmatlve roll call. Will the Menbers be in their chairsr please. Mr. Seeretary, would you read the affirmatlve roll call, please?
The following Members voted in the affirmative: Barkhausen, Butler, Cronin, DeAngelis, Deteo, Dillard, Donahue, Dudycz, Ralph 72 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSTON SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 Dunny Thomas Dunnr Farley, Fawell, Fitzgeraldx Geo-Karis, Hasarar Karpiel, Lauzen, Mahar, MalEland, Molaro, O'Malley, Parker, Peterson, Petkar Raicay Rauschenberger, Syverson, Walsh, Watson, Weaver, and Mr. President.
PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Viverito, for what purpose do you rlse, sir?
I'd like to say that I1m a new Member of the Senate. And yesterday on my way to Sprinîfield, had a -- hit a cake of ice and landed in the ditch. And, of courser was towed cut and T didn't make *he Senate yesterday. And I especially Wanted to be here today. And I didn't realize my microphone was noE on -- and I wanted to -- pardon me -- my voting key was not on, and r wanted to apologizg for that, bu* wanted to vote in favor of the voucher.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MATTLAND) The record will so reflect. Senator Bernanz do you request -- do you -- do you challenge the -- the presence of any Menber?
Thank you -- thank you. Senator Lauzen? Okag. Senator Syverson? Senator Peterson? Senator Sleben? won't challenge his vote. Thank you, Mr. President.
PRESIDING OEFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) On a verified roll call, there 4re 31 Ayes, 23 Nays and 1 Member having voted Present. Senate Bl11 l7, having received the required constitutional majority, is declared passed. Senator Karpiel, for what purpcse do you arise?
Having voted on Ehe prevailing side, make a notlon to reconsider the vote by Which Senate B111 17 passed.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Geo-Karis. 73 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995
Mr. Presidentr I move to 1ay that on the table.
PRESTDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Geo-Karis moves Ehat Sênate Bill 17 -- that the motlon to reconsider be tabled. A1l those in favorr say Aye. Opposed, Nay. The Ayes have and the motion is tabled . Senate Bill 20. Senator Weaver? Senator Weaver, do you wish this bill returned to - - Eo the Order of 2nd Reading for the purpose of amendment? Senakor Weaver seeks leave of the Body to return Senate Bl1l 20 to the Order of 2nd Reading for the purpose of an amendmene. Hearing no objection, leave is granted. On the Order of 2nd Reading is Senate Bill 20. Mr. Secrêtary, are there any Floor amendments approved for consideration?
Amendnent No. 2, offered by Senator Weaver.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Weaver.
Thank your Mr. President. This would maintain the practice of receiving per diem when the Senate is not in Session.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Weaver has moved the adoption of -- of Amendment No. 2 to Senate Bi11 20. Those in favorr say Aye. Opposedy Nay. The Ayes have it, and the -- and the amgndment is adopted. Are there further anendments -- Floor amendments approved for consideration, Mr. Secretary?
No further amendmenEs reported, Mr. President.
PRESIDING OFPICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) 3rd Readinq. Is there any further business to come before *he Senate? Senator DeLeo, for What purpose do you artser sir? SENATOR DeLEO: 74 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 Thank you, Mr. President. With leave of the Body, I'd ask that Senate Bill 508 1ay on the table.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator DeLeo has moved that Senate Bill 508 be tabled. All those in favorr say Aye. Opposed, Nay. The Ayes have it, and the -- and *he bill is tabled. Conmittee Reports.
Senator Klemm r Chair of the Committee on Local Government and Electlons, repores Senatg gills 390, 405, 426, 455 and 475 Do Pass; and Senate Bills 444 and 477 Do Passr as Amended . Senator Weaver, Chair of the Comnittee on Rules, reports that the followin: Legislative Measures have been assigned to committees: Referred to the Committee on Educatian - House Bills 206, 207, Senate Resolution 27, and Senate Anendment 1 to Senate Bill 227: to the Committee on Executive Senate Joint Resolutions 26, 30 and re-referred from Higher Education to the Rules Committee - Senate Bill 6987 referred to khe Committee on Publlc Health and Welfare Senate Bill 698) to the Committee on Revenue - Senate Resolution 32; to the Committee on State Government Operations - Senate Joint Resolutions 24 and 28; to the Committee on Transportation - Senate Amendment to Senate Bill 1227 and Be Approved for Consideration - Senate Amendnent to Senate Bill 365.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Demuzio, for What purpose do you arise, sir?
Well, thank you -- thank you, Mr. President. T'd like the record to reflect khat 6enator Collins is absent due to illness, and also Senator Hall is absent. understand he's improved somewhat. so I would ask thak Ehe record so reflect.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Senator Karpiel, for what purpose do you arise? 75 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day March 8, 1995 !
For the purposes of amendment, Mr. -- of an announcement, Mr. Presidenh. I jusk would like to announce to the Body Ehat the Senate Executive Committee will meet immediately following adjournment in Room 212. Senate Executive Committee. Please be I prompt. 1 P I RESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) I Senator Raica : for What purpose do you arlser sir? I I SENATOR RAICA: ! I Purpose of announcement, Mr. President. The Committee on I Public r Health and Welfare will meet at 2:30, not 2 o 1clock - 2:30 I ! in Room A-1 of the Stratton. ' PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) I Senator Mahar, for what purpose do you arise, sir? I I SENATOR MAHAR : I I For an announcenent, Mr. President. The Senate Environment I and Energy Committee will meet tomorrow morning at 9 a.m. in Room 1 400. 1 PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) I I House Bills lst Reading. SECRETARY HARRY: I House Bill 8, offered by Senator Geo-Karis. 1 (Secretary reads title of bill) And Senate Bill -- or House Bill 340, offered by Senator Dillard. (Secretary reads *itle of bill) lst Reading of the bills. PRESIDING OFFICER; (SENATOR MAITLAND) Is there any further business to come before the Senate? If noE -- Eenator Barkhausen, I'm sorry, for what purpose do ycu arise?
76 STATE OF ILLINOIS 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 24th Legislative Day Mareh 8, 1995 To announce, Mr. Prestdentr that there will be no meeting of the Senate Financial Institutions Committee this week.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR MAITLAND) Thank you. Is there any further business to come before the Senate? If not, Senator Geo-Karis moves that the Senate stand adjourned until noon, Thursday, March -- March 9th. 77 REPORT: TIFLDAY ST&TE OF ILLINOIS 95/24/07 PAGE: 001 89TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY 14:02:20 SENATE DAILY TRANSCRIPTION 0F DEBATE INDEX HARCH 08, 1995 HB-0008 FIRST READING PAGE H8-0206 FIRST READING PAGE HB-0340 FIRST READIMG PâGE . H8-0355 FIRST READING PZGE H8-0358 FIRST READING PZGE HB-0505 FIRST READIVG PàGE HB-0560 FIRST READIKG PAGE H8-0567 FIRST READING PAGE SB-0008 THIRD REZDIMG PAGE SB-0017 RECALLED PAGE SB-0O17 THIRD READING PZGE SB-0020 RECALLED PAGE 88-0063 SECOND REZDING PZGE SB-0:85 SECOMD READING PAGE . 58-0288 SECOMD READING PAGE SB-0508 TABLED PAGE SUBJECT MATTER SENATE TO ORDER-SENZTOR HEAVER PAGE 1 PRZYER-THE REVEREND Dû71D SCHâUER PAGE 1 PLEDGE OF âLLEGIANCE PZGE 1 JOURNALS-POSTPONED PAGE 1 COHHITTEE REPORTS PAGE 1 COMHITTEE REPORTS PAGE 75 ADJOURNHENT PAGE 77