The regular Session of the 88th General Assembly will please eome to order. Will the Members please be at their desks and will our guests in the gallery please rise. Our prayer today will be given by the Reverend Mrs. Jane Ferguson, Jerome Methodlst Church, Sprlngfield, Illinois. Reverend Ferguson.
(Prayer by the Reverend Mrs. Jane Ferguson)
Okay . We -- we have a request for WICS, WCIA, WAND to tape the proceedinss. Is there leave? Leave is granted. The Reading of the Journal. Senator Butler.
Mr. President, I move that reading and approval of the Journals of Thursday, November 10th, and Tuesday, November l5thr in the year 1994, be postponed, pending arrival of the printed Journals.
Senator Butler moves to postpone the reading of the -- and the approval of the Journals, pending the arrlval of the prlnted transcripts. There being no objection, so ordered. Resolutlons. 1
Senate Resolutions 19l2 , 1913, 1914 and 1915, all offered by Senator Ralph Dunn . Senate Resolution 1916 r by Senator Carroll. Senator Trotter offers Senate Resolution 1917 . Senate Joint Resolution l96 , offered by Senator Karpiel . Senate Joint Resolution 197 , by Senator Demuzio . And Senate Jolnt Resolution l98, by Senator Stern. They 're all congratulatory resolutions , Mr . Presldent .
Consent Calendar. Conunittee Reports . Messages from the l STATE OF ILLINOIS i 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY l REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legtslative Day November 16, 1994 l i ! . i House. E SECRETARY HARRY: k A Message from the House by Mr. Rossl , Clerk . Mr. President - I am directed to inform the Senate that the House of Representatives has accepted the Governor's specifie recommendations for change which are attached to a bi11 of the followin: title, in the adoption of which I am instructed to ask the concurrence of the Senate , to wit: House Bill 99 . Adopted by the House , November 15th , 1994. A Message from the House by Mr. Rossi, Clerk. Mr. President - I am directed to inform the Senate that the House of Representatlves has passed a bill of the following title, the Governor 's speciflc recommendations for change notwithstanding# in the passage of which I am instructed to ask the concurrence of the Senate y to wit : House Bill 3457. Passed the Houser November 15th, 1994, by a three-fifths vote. A Message from the House by Mr . Rossi, Clerk . Mr. Presldent - I am directed to inform the Senate that the House of Representatives has concurred with the Senate in the passage of a bill of the following tltle, to Wit: Senate Bi11 1153, with House M endment Nc . 13. Passed the House , as amended , November 15th r 1994 , by a three-fifths vote .
If I could have your attention, please. On page eight of today 's Calendar is the Order of Secretary 's Desk , Non-concurrences . On the Order is House Bill 282 . Senator Watson .
Thank you , Mr . President. I wculd ask the Body to, and I 2 STATE OF ILLINOIS ! 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLX REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT i ' 147th Leglslative Day November l6, 1994 j would make a motion to, refuse to recede from Senate Amendment No. l on House Bill 282.
Any discussion? If not, Senator Watson moves that the Senate refuse to recede from the adoption of Senate Amendment No. 1 to House Bill 282 and that a conference committee be appointed. A1l those ln favor, signify by saying Aye. Those opposed, Nay. The Ayes have it. The motion carries, and the Secretary shall so inform the House.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) If I could have the attention of the Body, we're going to go to page nine - page nine - on today's Calendar, Mctions ln Writing, Override Total Vetoes. I'd like for the Members to be seated, and we are going to page nine, Motions in Writing, Override Total Vetoes. This W1l1 be a -- three-fifths majcrity needed . Thlrty-six votes . And on page nine of the Calendar is the Order of Motions in Writlng to Override a Total Veto cf the Governor. Senator Topinka , on Senator 1369 . Mr . Secretary, would you please read the motion?
I mcve that the -- Senate Bill 1369 do passr the veto cf the Governor to the contrary notwithstanding . F1led by Senator Topinka .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Topinka .
Yes . Mr. Presldent and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate, the total veto of 1369 -- probably the slngle biggest component of this bill, which has numerous components, is a property tax freeze - a levy freeze - at 1993 levels for senior citizens who are sixty-five years of age and older and maklng thirty-five thousand dollars or less. Now, I'd like to make it very clear that I 3 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislatlve Day November l6, 1994 understand the Governor 's veto y and I understand hls reasons why . I think we b0th move in the same basic direction, in terms of an attempt to get property tax reform. We're just coming at it slightly differently. So nobody should try and blow this override out of perspective or somehow fee1 that this is some kind of a major argument between us, because lt is not. It is just a very gentile agreement to disagree . This particular bl11 is needed . think we have created, when we voted on this in both Chambers with greatr great numbers of voters, an implieit contract w1th the public acknowledging that senior citizens -- Mr. Presldenty could I have some order in the Chamber, please?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Yes . I would agree completely . Let 's -- thls is a pretty inportant vote. There's many Members who want to speak. I think we should listen to the sponsor of this motion . And if our Members could be seated, I think it would be best for a11 of us . Let's have some order. Senator Topinka.
Thank you, Mr. President. And maybe if I talk a little louder, it'11 work better. But nevertheless, When we look at the problems that senior citlzens on fixed incomes have, with an ever ris ing and dlsproportionate problem that we face in this State of an overreliance on property taxes, these folks just cannot keep up. What we do is put them at risk of either losing their homes, because they can 't afford to keep them up , or not maintaining their homes. Because if it comes to a question of are they gotng to maintain them or pay their property tax, it's a major point of contentionr or a major polnt of contentlon, can they afford to pay for property taxes or prescription drugs , which keep them going and not in hospitals at significantly more costs , or, you know, -- can they pay for their very food because they have to pay for property taxes. There is no question that we shift the burden to 4 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November 16, 1994 others who are in a better position to be able to handle thls. But it is far cheaper to invest on the front-end than drive these senior citizens out of their homes, where their assets are fixed. They don't have access to the money that their property is worth until they sell it. It ls not a cash flow situation for them. Do we indeed want to drive them out and ultimately have them use up whatever assets they have and drive them into the Medicald system, whieh is significantly more costly? One way or another it is going to cost something. Better we do it preventively on the front-end and live up to the legislative intent that b0th Chambers very, very strongly put forward just a couple of months ago. The situation has not changed. The only thlng that has changed is we had an intervening election. If the situation was the same before an election and we made these grandiose promises and we voted very strongly in favor of this bkll and then proceeded to campaign on this bill, I think lt would be absolutely a gross violation of this whole prccess to now back off and not move this bill forward in the way that it was lntended. I certainly would be willing to ask any -- answer any questtons. There are other components of this bill which we can discussr but I don 't wlsh to take up your time at thls tlme unless somebody has a specific question about them .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Thank you, Senator. Senator Topinka has moved that Senate Bill 1369 do pass, the veto of the Governor to the contrary notwithstanding. Is there any discussion? Senator Jaccbs.
Thank you: Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. Will the sponsor yield for some questions?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Yes. The sponsor says she will yield, Senator Jacobs.
5 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November l6, 1994 Senatorr we all know hoW we voted on this bill last tlme, and it's one that we thouvht was a good idea at the time - still may be a good idea under eertain circumstances. But thls is a mandate to local governments. It's my understanding that fourteen million dollars will be lost in education dollars alone. What, if anything, is our plan to make up those dcllars? This ls an unfunded mandate, and that goes without saying what the dollar costs nay be for the local unit -- other units of local government.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Topinka.
Yes. Senator Jacobs, it is not a mandate on local governments because you are looking at projected future revenue. No one knoks the future. It 's something that has not been calculated into anybody's mix, because lt's not out there. It is designed for a very narrow sector of the population.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Jacobs.
Well, you may be eorrect; it may not be a mandate because there is another side to this issue . And I think the Governor said it best in his veto message that these are dollars that are going to have to be made up by others ln the community. It's I going to be -- have to be made up by our middle class, our middle-age group . It's going to have to be made up by our very, very young, in order to be able to ensure that the dollars are -- are there for the schools. What are we doing to ensure that there's protection for those people also? Is this a preluder if you will, to a future Which says that property tax abatement should be abated entirely and gone to another method?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) 6 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November l6, 1994 Senatar Topinka. But before Senator Toplnka responds, one more time, I think we awe the consideration to those people Who i arewantlngtodiscusstheissueandEothesponsor. Let's glve J us -- 1et's give some attention to those people and the questions that are being asked. Can I ask for order one more time. Can we ask for some order. Senator Topinka.
Well done, Mr. President. First of all, this does not dlscuss property tax abatement in any conceivable way, Senator Jacobs. Also , too: since thls money is not -- is -- ls future money - it is not in anybody 's budget at this point, nor calculated into anybody's budget at this point - I think what you're suggesting is strictly making bcok on the future y and you really don 't know hoW that will come out in terms of who this will ultimately affect and in terms of -- of any type of a makeup. I addressed that issue in my opening statement. There is no question in my mind that others will have to make up some of thls differential. But they are ln a better position to do so, and any taxing that we do in that state is based on that idea that we are moving thlngs around and changing proportlonate -- propcrtlons . Taxatlon by its very nature is not necessari1y one hundred percent fair or equal to al1.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Jacobs .
Well, Senator, I'm not sure lf the very young working at less-than-adequate wagesy trying to raise a family, are truly in a better posltion to pay for it, than uhat the senlor citizens are. But that aside, I think lt is a tax abatement, because we are saying in the future their taxes will not increase if they fa11 in this area . Next year is the quadrennial assessment and most taxes will be goin: up next year anyway . This bi11 , when passed , will 7 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Leglslative Day November 16, 1994 stop that, I would assume, number one. But it's golng to have to mean that -- in the quadrennlal reassessment, that there will be a j greater increase for the rest of the people of the State of j 1 Illinois to make up for those dollars that are lcst in the future I ' I because of a property tax freeze. PRESIDING OFEICER: (SENATOR WATSON) I i Was that a question, Senator, or just a comment? Senator Jacobs. I SENATOR JACOBS: p ! It -- it Was a commenty but... 1 ! PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) ; ! Okay. 7 ( SENATOR JACOBS: i .. . but let -- let me just close lf I will. I -- I'm With you, Senator. I'n probably going to vote on this, and I'm probably going to vote Aye, but 1'11 tell you, it's cne that clearly shows -- I think whenever we had the electlon Tuesday - which lncidentally, congratulatlons, Senator, on your victory - that the people told us, ''Keep out of our lives.'' I think that's one thing that they 're really telling us. So here's a case where on one hand, we're saying a segment of our population can get a future j break: but the rest of the population is not going to get that I l break, so we are interfering with their lives. And I guess in -- in closing I would just say lt's really a b1ll that's hard to vcte I on, whlch -- which -- which you had -- had truly indicated at the beglnntng. But now we can get social security at sixty-two. Why sixty-five instead of sixty-two? AARP says you can be a member of AARP -- youpre a senior citizen at fifty. So, where do we really i I I end up wlth this thing? Where is it gotng to end up? And I think ; I the only true solution is to probably go with property tax relief I j i for all by changing our method of taxatlon for al1 of the -- the ! State 's business and the local governments 1 business . I think 8 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November l6, 1994 1 that's something that this -- this legislature should be about. )
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Hendon , further discussion.
Thank you -- thank you , Mr . President . I r too r rise in support of our illustrious Treasurer's motion to override. It -- there comes a time when we sincerely have to lock out for our senior citlzens with these property taxes . As Treasurer-elect Topinka said , they are the ones that have the hardest chance of -- of paying highe r taxesy because lnost of our senior citizens are on a fixed income . I think this ls a very good bill . I voted for it and cosponsored, matter of fact# when it came out originally. And I hope that all of us on both sldes of the atsle get the message thae the voters are clearly sending across this country that taxes are simply too high and we cannct continue to ralse themr and in fact, we should give a tax break whenever possible. And I believe this particular bill -- as -- as Senator Topinka said , many of us canpaigned on it, told the senlor citizens that we were going to vote for it. We did, and now we must continue that With this vote for the override . And I rise ln strong support of Senator Topinka 's notion . Thank you .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further discussion? Senator Berman .
Thank you, Mr. Presldent. Ladles and Gentlemen of the Senate# I rise in strong support of this motion to override. F'irst let me point out -- let me point out that ehere is an item 1n this bill that relates to economic development . There ls a provision in here to allow a new research park authority to issue State bonds . It will beneflt research parks at the University of I1linois, at Southern Illinois...
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) 9 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November 16, 1994 Senator Berman. I -- I mean, I don't know what we have to dor Senator Berman, to -- to bring our Membership into some sort of order. If we have to ask people to leave the Floor, we'll do it. But I think the speakers and the sponsor have -- ought to have the courtesy of the Membershtp to listen to the discussion. This is an important vote. And if anybody's got a conference, take lt off the Floor. Senatcr Berman, proceed.
Thank you. Mr. Presldent. There is one item in this that I think is very important for everyone to note. It deals with an area of economic development that ls moving very quickly forward, and the veto of this may bring that forward movement to a halt. I'm talking about the research park authority that is provided in this bill. It will give bonding support to research parks at the University of Illinois, Southern Illincis University and Ncrthwestern University. The research park located ln Evanstonz sponsored by Northwestern University, has had dramatic results in brlnging new ideas, small business investmentr small business encouragement, small business development that ls the key to future development for jobs, for economic development in Illtnois. And this is a proposal that ls good business for Illtnois. In addition, I just want to make a comment regarding the major portion that Senator Topinka has already related to. In my constltuency and I'm sure that it's reflective of a1l of yours - I have areas where seniors have lived their homes far ten, twenty, thtrtyr forty years, and because of the increased value of those homes, they are being driven out of their homes because of increased property taxes generated by those increased assessments. Regrettably, to ny seniors that fit lnto that categoryr they -- the increased value doesn't mean anything more to them. Their home is still just their home. And yet, theylre being driven out by increased property taxes. Now, I'm not to say STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November 16, 1994 that there ought not to be other approaches to address other people's needs, but in this bill we are recognizing a great unfairness that We have allowed by underfunding of our schocls from the State, from allowing property taxes to increase by local governments and by our local schools. The seniors are entitled to this relief. And we're talking about -- and I want to acknowledge again, as I did on 3rd Reading, the cooperation of Senator DeAngelis and our Revenue Committee staffs on b0th sides of the aisle that have defined the thirty-five-thousand-dollar threshold, so welre talking about honest dollars. This includes pension money. It includes -- government municipal tax revenues, a11 those other kinds of things that people may use to avoid taxes. Al1 of that is covered here. So we're talklng about a senior famtly over stxty-five years of age that has nothing more than real thirty-five-thousand-dollar income. They deserve some relief, and that's a1l this is is relief. It's not a tax cut. It freezes their assessment. Theydll still see some increase because of local taxing lncreases, but not because of assessments. I urge an Aye vote on the override.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further dlscusslon? The Associated Press has asked leave of the Body -- orr we -- ask leave of the Body so that the Associated Press can take photos. Do we have leave? Leave is granted. Senator Fawell, further discussion. Turn your light out thenr Senator. Senator DeAngelis. SENATOR DeANGELIS: Thank you, Mr. Prestdent. First of allr on a point of personal privilege, I would like to introduce, in gallery on the lefty a person who is tied for the best looking grandmother in my district - she's tied with my wife for that - Ann Brink. Ann, would you stand up and be recognlzed? And her granddaughter, Margaret Perry, who 's serving with us today as a Page. 11 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November l6# 1994
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Wellr We welcome them bcth to our Chamber and we appreclate their attentive manner in which they Will, I'm sure, listen to this speaker. SENATOR DeANGELIS: I -- I Would like to address a cluple of the issues that are myths of this bill. First of all, I -- I am really stunned that there are people here talking about losses of revenue. My friends, this is a freeze of the current assessed valuation; it is not a reductiony and there is no lcss of revenue. What there might be is a dlminution of some increases: and at best probably a minimal amount. Secondly, there's a discussion on the -- this significant shifting. Let me just tell ycu: If there's a unit of government that is at max rate and therefs a substantial increase in the assessed valuatlon, there is no shtfting when they levy because you can't ralse the rate any higher than the max rate. Nowr 1et me advise those of you who are in Ccok County: There are only school -- two school districts in Cook County that are not at max rater and one of them is in Skokie, Which is nine cents under their max rate, and the other one is in Stickneyy Which is eleven cents under their max rate. So let's cut out the myth about shiftlng . In addition to that, what has been lost in this also is the fact that if a senior citizen, like my mother, is forced to move out of their house, the likelihood is that a person Wlth children Will mcve 1n# which is an additional expense to the school district. But also what's not mentioned is that when you freeze the assessed valuationr the school districts Whose assessed valuatlon has been frozen, in these instances, is ellgible for more State aid because they have less EAV behind every student. But, you know, in closlng, 1et me make one mention for those of you who may not be aware: 1990 Census produced one very startlinq result. It was the first time in the history of the State of 12 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November 16, 1994 ! Illinols that the percentage of home ownership decreased. And let ne just tell you where the percentage decreased: It was in the senlor pcpulation. I urge support for the override of Senate Bill 1369.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further discussion? Senator Maitland.
1 i Thank you very much, Mr. Presldent and Members of the Senate. This is cruel and deceiving property tax relief for seniors. As the Chlcago Tribune stated ln one of its edltorials, lt's a poor excuse for a tax break. I dcn't, in any wayr shape or form, crlticize those who purpcrt to help senior citizensy because they are truly tryin: to do something. We have failed for lo these many years to address the rapidly escalating taxes on all sectors in thls State, and we have failed - failed - miserably. My concern, my fellow Senatorsr is this: If ycu go back, as some of us do, when we froze the homestead exemptions at -- at -- at 1979 levels, as we then brought on the senior citizens ' exemption, it got us off the hcok. Look what we've done for seniars. Lock What we've done for homeowners ln this State. And it allowed us to ! step aside from the real problem that we have in this State: shifting the burden of funding education to the property owners. And that is wrong. Senator Berman, I have given your speech all across this State. Very same speech. Senior citizens buy their home thirty-five years ago for twenty thousand dollars and a tax rate of a dollar, and today on a ftxed lncome and a house with a value of a hundred and fifty thousand dollars and a five- or slx-dollar tax rater and they are now on a fixed income. That is terrlbly wrong. But this doesn't right that wrong, and don't be deceived by it. Let's treat our senior citlzens fairly and let's address the problem accurately and properly. We can do that. But let's don't sent this wrong signal; let's don't elininate the goal i 13 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November l6, 1994 that we all have in mind: to address real property tax relief in this State. And I urge defeat of the motion.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further discussion? Senatcr Shaw.
Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. I rise in support of Senate Bill 1369: because I thlnk a few days a:o that we a1l was talking about big government and government -- too much government, and I think that What thls bill does ls take governmentfs hands out of the pockets of the senior citlzens and leave thelr purse closed. And out of the twelve years serving in this Body, I think this is one of the finest pieces of legislation that have ever come forth, because We have to do something for our senior population. Those people are suffering. Taxes are steadily going up, but their paycheck who -- those who are on fixed incomer don't go up at the same rate that tax structure go up -- the real estate tax structure go up. So I Want to commend the sponsor of this legislation for putting thls forth, and certainly I urge a Aye vote on this legislatton.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further discussion? Senator Woodyard, What -- for what purpose do you rise?
Thank you, Mr. President. I apologize for interrupting in the middle of a debate today on a very important override. But on a point of personal prlvilege, I would like to introduce to you, from the gallery -- I would have preferred doing this here from the podium , but in my distrlct the Casey-Westfield girls' champion softball teanz junior high, is in the gallery, and I would like the Senate to extend a very warm welcome to them .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Would our guests please riser or raise your hand maybe? 14 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislatlve Day November l6, 1994 Welcome to Springfield: and congratulations. Further discussion? Senator Geo-Karls.
Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senatey don't know about some of my cclleagues, but I have loads of senior citlzens in my district who have been forced to sell their homes because they couldn't afford the taxes. All this bill does is freeze the property taxes at present time, and think we have to try it, because by the time we give some real property tax relief, itdll be awhile before We get our gears in -- going and getting it done here. I think the bill should be tried because there is no way to accurately predlct the future increase in assessed value of residential parcels owned by senior citizens with household income of thirty-flve thousand dollars or less. And I think we should at least give it a try. I am in favor of the bill.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SEXATOR WATSON) Further discusslon? Senator Dlllard .
Thank your Mr. President and Ladles and Gentlemen of the Senate. Senator Topinkaz I clearly have a grea: deal of sympathy for senior citizens who may benefit from this particular bill, but thls ls the first major vote that this Body ls going to make after last Tuesday 's election. And I thlnk we learned one thing last Tuesday's electlon, and that's that the populace of this State said they don't llke bills that are omnibus bills; they want us to make tough cholces, and they want us to take a comprehensive look at the tax structure of the State of Illinois. And the first major bill that we address as the State Senate after last Tuesday's election is an cmnibus bill. It's a bill that is much more complex than just giving tax relief to senior citizens. And think if there was one thing that both Mrs. Netsch and Governor Edgar agreed with, it Was this particular vetc of this particular 15 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November l6, 1994 bill, in the fact that this is a major tax shlft to other segments of our population. When I Was golng door to door about two weeks ago in my election, ehrough Downers Grove, Tllinois, I came upon a - - a working man who was forty-five years cld, and he said to me, ''What are ycu going to do with a senior citizen's property tax bill that -- that the Governor vetoed this summer?l' And I told him that I did not know what I was going to do, and that was the case. And he sald, ''Heyr I got two kids. I make forty-five thousand dollars a year. I'm scrapping for everything I can get: l and I want to show you the house three doors away. Those people over there make abcut twenty thousand dollars a yeary but they 're senior citizens. But their mortgage is done with. They have a Winnebago trailer; and they live better than me, and I got tWo kids, includlng one that's going to go to eollege in a year or two. And a1l you're dcing ls moving their burden onto me.'' And that argument, to me, is compelling. And -- and, Senator Topinka, I commend you. You 've been a champion all of these years for property tax relief, especially senicr citizens, but I believe we need to take a more comprehensive look next spring, with your help as the State Treasurer, and not move a plece of Jell-O around to other pieces of the pie, where we have middle age - people my age - and others who have children in school, chtldren in college, and a1l we're doing is shifting that burden. And just to close, I happen, and I'm very fortunate, to represent a property rich -- or property tax-rich district. But I guess it astonishes me that -- that some of you, especially those on the other stde of the aisle who stand up in support of this, would be for this, because all of -- a11 this really does is exacerbate the problem between those school districts that are the haves and the have-ncts. And that's not necessarily a problem for my district, but I guess I'm just astonished; that this exacerbates the problem of those poorer districts - pocrer in terms of property tax wealth - and that they l 16 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November l6, 1994 would be for a support of thls override motlon. I wish that we would no* have this quandary. I believe that this something that needs to get taken with a bigger, comprehenslve, overall look. But I clearly think that this ls not the Way to go and oppose this override moticn.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further discusslon? Senator Fawell.
Thank you very muchz Mr. President. I have been debatlng to myself whether I should stand up and admit somethin: that perhaps a few of you may not know. And that I am a senior cltlzen. By law, I am a senior cltlzen. And this is a lousy bill. And will tell you why it is a bad bill and why a 1ot of us senior citizens think is a bad billy and very close to What Senator Jacobs said. have children. I have grandchildren, as most seniors do. I happen to be supporting four people this magnificent salary that we have. I happen to pay almost seven thousand dollars in real estate taxes. So anybody is quote ''poorn, should be among them. But this is still a bad bill. still have a mortgage to pay, but hopefully by the time get cut of here, maybe I will be close to havlng it through. I put my children thrcuqh college. I don't have that expense anymore; my children do. My grandchildren need an educatlon. My grandchildren must be put through college. My grandchildren must have a home to live in, and my chlldren must support them. Somebody helped my children out when my children uere going to schoclr and is now my turn to help my grandchildren out. Thirty-five thousand dollars is way too hlgh. Perhaps we should raise the amount for the circuit breaker, but not to thirty-five thousand. I can do it. There's -- lots of us that are senior citizens can do it, and have been doing it. This is a bad bill. think if seniors take a good look at they 're going to 17 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November l6, 1994 understand why some of us feel very strongly that we don't want to leave this burden to our childrenr and therefore are qolng to vote No .
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further discusslon? Senator Rauschenberger.
First I'd like to congratulate the sponsor of the motion for an exceptional win in the electlon, and I'd also like to thank Senator DeAngelis for one of his patented explanations of the Property Tax Code that again left me thoroughly confused. But -- but I would like to rise and ask the Members of this Body to think carefully before they cast a vote on this bill. If we can be frank and honest - and if last Tuesday didn't tell us that that's what the voters want - if we can be frank and honest with ourselves and take a look at this bill, what welre -- what We're about to do is vote on a short title, not on a gocd piece of legislation. There aren't a handfull of people in this Chamber who thlnk this is good legislationy but we 're afraid of the short tltle. If last Tuesday didn't tell us that -- that the public wants change, that the public wants reform, that the public is tired of -- of pork stuffed inside short-titled bills, then What message was last Tuesday? Last Tuesday was the largest electoral turnover in the hlstory of the United States, and the ftrst acticn we take should not be to advance a flawed, omnibus bill which includes an industrial park financing ln it that dcesn't belong there. I urge a No vote.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Is there any further discussion? Senator Karpiel.
Well, thank you, Mr. Prestdent and Members of the Senate. alsc rise in opposition to thisy for twc reasons. The first one has to do with the -- what we call the property tax relief in this 18 ' STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislattve Day November 16, 1994 bill. Flrst of all, I am opposed to it because it does, in fact, shift tbe burden to other taxpayers. I have many taxpayers in my distrlct who perhaps jointly - between b0th spouses - make thirty-five thousand or -- or not even that, in worklng tWo jobs. They are raising children, trying to pay high property taxesr trying to live the good life, and finding lt very difficult to do so. This will shift. This is a mandated tax increase for those E i taxpayers. And on that basis, I oppose it. I also oppose it -- and I'm surprlsed at the Chairman of the Revenue Committee and E another Member of the Revenue Committee cver there espoustng this bill, when we've been having hearings around the State on changlng the Tax Code in Illinois and coming up With, perhapsy a different mlxs a different kind of Tax -- Tax Code. And We 're doing nothing here but another -- another Band-Aidr another just sonethlng that sounds gcod, instead of really getting at the kind of reform that we need in our Tax Cade. I also stand in oppcsltion to it on the basës of another portion of the b11l Which has been hardly mentioned. We are creating another bondlng authority in this bill. We fought over creating bonding -- different bondlng authorlties on many different issues in many different bills last year. And here we are without even any kind of information, ! without any kind of debate, wefre again raising the bonding r authority of the State of Illlnois and creatlng another authority to do lt. I Would urge a No vote on thls ill-concelved piece of leglslatlon - a No vcte on this motlon eo override. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further discussion? Senator Geo-Karis. SENATOR GEO-KARIS: Mr. Presidentr on a point of personal privilege. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) State your point. SENATOR GEO-KARIS: 19 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSEON I SENATE TRANSCRIPT ( ' 147th Leqlslative Day November l6, 1994 Ir too, like Senator Fawell, have a conflict. I'm a senior citizen. However, I am going to vote my consclence and the needs of my district.
PRESIDINC OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Further discussion? Senatcr Lauzen.
Thank you, Mr. -- thank ycu Mr. Chairman. Naturally, anyone listenlnq to the debate today knows that there are very gcod arguments on both sides of the issue. And it is regrettable that the bonding capacity has been added to this bill, because certainly those two things don't go together. But as lon: as we lre going to interpret electlon results, I think that what -- what -- last Tuesday demonstrated that when pcllticians make a 2 commitment to the voters, you keep it. Everyone in this rcom had a chance to vote on thls a eouple of months ago. The final vote was 56 Yesesy 2 Noesr l Present. I think that what the voters want is some consistency. For all of us and for -- who want to interpret those results, and a1l of you in this room Who vcted Yes before an election, and then nany of you who ran on that platform# need to vote Yes after the judgment day ls over. Soy for a1l fifty-six people who voted Yes, I think that you owe it to the voters after the election to be consistent in your vcte.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) I see no further discussion. Senator Topinka, you had to literally scream your opening remarks. I hope that the Members will listen to your closlng marks, and we will proceed with Ehe roll call. Senator Topinka. to close.
Yes. Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of -- of the Senate, I think wefve had a very good debate on this. And ln -- in llstening to Senator Dillardr and I appreciate what he has to say, that indeed this legtslative Body is designed to make tough j 20 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November 16, 1994 choices, and certainly the first blll out of the box in this Veto Session after this election, as I interpret election results, is make those tough choices, be consistent, promises made are promises to be kept. What do we hear on the federal level? Bill Clinton promised a middle-class tax decrease. And what do we get? Nothlng. And a Whole list of other follow-up promises made that Weren't dellvered. don't think we can afford to do that. The public has said, you kncw, ''Make these choices; get out of our lives. Let us stay in our homes. Don't forcibly make us compete to have to live by by fighting agalnst this limited amount of money that we have for foody for hcusing, for prescription drugs, for the ability to maintain our prcperties. Just leave us stay -- let us stay ln the neighborhoods where we grew up, where we raised our children, where we contributed countless hours of civic activities, where we are and were a part of what went on here. Don't price us out of the market, which is what you're dolng.'' Nothing has changed in this bill frcm a month ago. The people are the same; the high prcperty taxes are the same; the whacked-out tax policy of this State is stlll the same. Nothing has changed, except an election. I don't thlnk thatls enough to change the votes thls Senate. A promise made is a promise that has to be lived up to. And I think our promise and cur contract with the publlc is very strong on this blll. would ask for a very positive roll call.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) The questlon ls# shall Senate Btll 1369 pass, the veto of the Governor contrary notwithstanding. Those in favor will vote Aye. Opposed, vote Nay. The voting will be open. Have a11 voted who wish? Have a1l vo*ed who wlsh? Have a1l voted Who wlsh? Take the record. On that questicn, there are 50 voting Yes, 8 voting No, no voting Present. Senate Bill 1369, having received the required three-fifths vote, is declared passed, the veto of the 21 STATE OP ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day Novenber 16r 1994 Governor to the contrary notwithstanding. Senator Hendon, for what purpose do you rise?
Thank you, Mr. President. Point of personal privilege.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) State your potntr Senator.
Yesterday, Mr. Presldent, I intended to vote Aye on Senate Bills 357, 1200 and 1726. I Would appreciate it if you would allow the record to reflect that. And also...
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Yesy eertainly. SENATOR HENDON; Also, Mr. Presldent, if I could very briefly -- if I could -- could we get a little -- just a little order?
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Wellr once againr we've got to ask our Membership for order. Senator Hendon.
And, everyone, 1'11 be -- I promise I w1l1 be very, very brief. But there is a -- a holiday coming up and placed on everyone's desk a letter from me maklng a personal appeal for food and toys for the poor children in my district. This ts the eighth year that I've had a food giveaway and -- a food and toy giveaway for Christmas. And we have over two thousand people on our list, and we don't have enough food for but a -- slightly over a thousand people. So I'm making a personal appeal to the Members of the caucus - especially those that are better well-off, like Peter Fitzgerald and Chris Lauzen, my good friends see if they can find it in the klndness of thelr heart to come up with some nonperishable goods for the people ln our district. And come on down, Peter, so they can meet you, and, Chrls, since you may be a 22 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislatlve Day November l6, 1994 senatorial candidate, and see if you can find a feW friends over there on the west side. And I thank you very much.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Demuzio, to explain how well off he is. Senator Demuzio. SENATOR DEMUZIO ) unfortunatelyy I didn't hear a thing about it. Mr. President, mighty I dc have, in factz a -- an inquiry to make of the Chair. And the inquiry of the Chair that I might pose to you is that most of our Members over here Would like to know what the schedule will be now for the remainder of the day, and most importantly, we would like to know what the schedule is for tomorrow, particularly lleu of the fact that we have little or nothing left to do.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) We have a few more mattersr Senatar, before the Body today, and we Wlll come in tomorrow at 9 a.m. We now proceed tc -- on page Senator Demuzio?
Miqht I inquire, Mr. President, as to What We will be doing tomorrow then, we have all these important issues that we're going -- going to take care of this afternoon? What what important issues are left for tomorrow?
PRESIDING OFPICER: (SENATOR WATSON) The -- many of the Messages Will be comlng over from the House. I'm sure wedll have a Calendar, and there will be Session at 9 a.m. Eomorrow. Senator Demuzto, for the last time.
Well, Mr. Presidentr for the last time forever: or for the last time on this issue? Thank you, Mr. President. Then might inquire as to why wefre not in perfunctory tomorrow thenz just allowing those Messaqes to be read in, and those Messages to be 23 STATE OF ILLINOIS ' 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY I REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislative Day November l6, 1994 ! I I I put upon khe Calendar, and we Will handle those when We come back? I don't know what the purpose is for us to be here tomcrrow. I guess that's what I'm asklng, because we can handle those matters I i with some dispatch and ue could do those on a perfunctory basis. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) I Well, I appreciate your concern and we will now proceed to i ; page seven on the Calendar. Senator Palmer. On Secretary 's Deskr Concurrence, Senate Bills, Senate Bill -- pardon me, Senate Bill 1454. Senator Palmer. Mr. Secretary. i !
; I move to concur with the House in the adoption of their 1 Amendment No. 1 to Senate Bill 1454. Filed by Senator Palmer. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) I ! Senator Palmer.
Tbank your Mr. President. I move to concur. Mr. Presidentr it's LRB'S advisory Ksic> blll. There's nothingz just technical changes.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Is there any dtscussion at all? This is final action. Senator Palmer, maybe if you could explain this a little further.
All that it does is to insert the combining provisions of Article 11 and the technlcal provisions of Article 111. It's just a technical change. It's *he annual LRB advlsory <sic>.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Well, this is flnal action. And the question is, shall the Senate concur in House Amendment l to Senate Bill 1454. Those ln favor, vote Aye. Opposed, vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a11 voted who wish? Have all voted who Nish? Have a11 voted Who wish? Take the reccrd. On that question, there are 56 votlng 24 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH CENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Leglslative Day November 16, 1994 Yes, no voting No, no voting Present. Senate Bil1 1454 -- the Senate does concur in the Hause Amendments No . 1 to Senate Bill 1454, and the bkll, havlns secelved the required constktuttonal majorltyy ls declared passed. Wlll -- the Membership will be advised we are now goin: to page three. On page three is the Order of House Bills 3rd Readlng. On that Order is House B1ll 1124. Senator Weaver, do you wish this bill to be returned to 2nd Reading for the purposes of an amendment? Senator Weaver. senator...
I would ask leave to bring it back to 2nd Reading for the purpose of an amendment. PRESIDING OFFICER; (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Weaver seeks leave of the Body to return House Bi11 1124 to the Order of 2nd Reading for the purposes of an amendment. Hearing no objectkon, leave is granted. On that Order -- on the I Order of 2nd Readlng is House Bill 1124. Mr. Secretary, are there any Floor amendments approved for consideration? !
Amendment No . 1, offered by Senator Weaver.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Weaver, to explain your amendment.
Thank you, Mr. President. This ls a conveyance of two-thirds of an acre in Douglas County to the -- fron the Department of i Conservakion to the Monahan Company, and for the amount of seven thousand eight hundred dollars. All parties have agreed. The appraisal has been made, and I'd move for 1ts adoptlon. PRESIDINC OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) ! Is there any discussion? Seeing none, a1l those in favor, say Aye. Opposedg Nay. The Ayes have it, and the amendment ls adopted. Are there any further Floor amendments approved for 25 STATE OF ILLINOIS 88TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY REGULAR SESSION SENATE TRANSCRIPT 147th Legislatlve Day November l6, 1994 conslderation?
No further amendments reportedy Mr. President.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) 3rd Reading. Senatcr Weaver, on the Order of 3rd Reading we have House Bttl 1124. Mr. Secretary, please read the bill.
House Bill 1124. (Secretary reads title of bill) 3rd Reading cf the bill.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Senator Weaver.
Thank you, Mr. President. There is nothing other than thls one amendment on House Bill 1124, and I'd move its -- your favorable consideration.
PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR WATSON) Seeing no discussion, the question isr shall House Bill 1124 pass. Those in favor will vote Aye. Opposedr vote Nay . The voting is open. Have all voted Who wish? Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record . On that questlon, there are votinç Yes, no voting No, no votlng Present. Hcuse Bill 1124, havlng received the required three-fifths majority, is declared passed. Is there any further business to come before the Senate? If notz Senator Weaver moves that the Senate stands adjourned untll 9 a.m., Thursday, November 17th. 26 REPORT: TIFLDAY STATE OF ILLIMOIS 9:/11/28 PAGE: 001 88TH GENERAL ASSEHBLY 13:2#:26 SENATE DAiLY IRANSCHIPTION 0F DEBATE INDEX NOVEHBEB 16, 199% H8-0282 REFUSE TO RECEDE PAGE 2 HB-112R RECALLED PAGE 25 HB-112R THfRD READING PAGE 26 58-1369 VETO ACTICK PAGE 3 SB-1k5V CONCURRENCE PZGE 24 SR-1912 RESOLUTION OFFERED PZGE 1 5R-1913 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 1 SR-191) RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 1 SR-1915 RESOLUTIOV OFFERED PZGE 1 5R-1916 RESOLUTIOM OFFERED PZGE 1 SR-1917 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 1 SJR-;196 RESOLUTIQN QFFERED PAGE 1 SJR-0197 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 1 SJR-O198 RESOLUTION OFFERED PAGE 1 EUBJECT HATTER SENZTE TO ORDER-PRESIDENT PHILIP PAGE 1 PRZYER-THE REVEREND J2NE FERGUSON PZGE 1 JOURNALS-POSTPONED PZGE 1 HESSAGES FROH THE HOUSE PZGE 1 ADJOURNMENT PZGE 26